- I want to be able to get multiple shows on a single media
- I will want to be able to play the discs I burn on my other DVD player, so whatever mode/format I burn I need to ensure it remains compatible with the other player
- on playback, I want the entire disc to be able to play without intervention (pauses as it goes from one title to another are okay)
- I gather you generally want to try to preserve the ability to burn in high speed dubbing mode if at all possible

It seems to me that you'll work most of this out with a little trial and error. You refer to SP and LP mode but don't mention the MN modes. That's what you need to be using to get a recording setting around 3 hours per disc. The picture will look far superior to those LP VHS tapes.

I always do the chapter editing on the HDD of my 510H rather than in the playlist. It is more risky in the sense that I could accidentally delete something and not be able to recover it the way I can in the playlist. But I've only done that once. The benefit is that I'm able to make more precise edit points. My 510H doesn't have a choice of VR or video mode for HDD recording so I don't know which it is. There often is a slight freeze at the cut frames during playback. This isn't very distracting when editing out commercials because the program is taking a break any way.

Apparently the expense of DL media doesn't bother you much. It does me. I think you should experiment with real-time burning of your playlist to single-layer media using the optimize mode when there is too much video to fit. I believe you'll be very satisfied with the result. If you aren't, you can still choose to high-speed copy to a DL disc.

I second Verbatim. But I'm not a fan of DL recordable media in general.

Is there a particular reason you don't like them as much? Are they not as reliable as single sided media or something of that nature? Or is it just a matter of the extra cost for DL?

FYI -

http://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=323477

Welcome, ianm! Have you looked at the Hints & Tips thread at
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=793772 ?

From what I gather:

- to do high speed dubbing from the HDD to DVD you need to plan in advance to record to the HDD in the right recording mode to match what I'm planning to burn.
- any recordings I am making in SP mode would have to be dubbed to DVD in real time mode if I wanted to use something laround MN09 to get an equivalent amount on a single layer disc.

Both correct. See page 125 of the manual for the "plan-ahead" settings depending on how much you plan to put on a disc. Remember to allow for commercials. Four one-hour shows will occupy about three hours when you've removed commercials.

I might question that MN09, though: it's awfully low quality. You say you expect to keep these discs permanently. If you're certain you'll never want to watch these discs on a TV bigger than the one in your bedroom, go for it. For me personally, with 57-year-old eyes and a 27" TV, MN14 (three hours per single-layer disc) is about the lowest I can look at comfortably. I start to notice little artifacts occasionally at that speed.

is there a way to ensure in video mode editing that you always mark on an I-frame so your edits remain exactly where they were even when you high speed dub?

In video mode editing, the recorder enforces editing only on an I-frame (exact second or half second). As far as I know, that's the only difference between the two modes when you select "Chapter Edit" from Disc Navigator.

Since I always burn discs in video mode, I always edit in video mode so that my chapter edits come out where I put them.

is there any reason not to just do your editing of commercials on the HDD (so that they are physically removed and space is freed up) instead of virtually on a copy list? The former seems more logical to me but it wasn't entirely clear whether there were any real disadvantages to doing it that way.

I recommend editing the master copy on the HDD. I try not to do any edits in the copy list. I can't see any disadvantages to editing the master copy, unless you think you may regret losing the commercials and want them back. :) As you've already observed, you can delete chapters while in Chapter Edit. I find this the easiest way to work.

both the manual and here it's been mentioned that VR mode is more flexible that video mode for editing, but doesn't really spell out what the differences are. What extra does VR mode actually give you? Since I want to burn in a mode that is compatible with other players I want to use video mode anyway right? The HDD also has a "video mode on" setting (which I'm using) - I'm not sure if this refers to the same thing or not.

The "flexibility", AFAIK, is in just two things: (a) in VR mode you can put a chapter edit on any frame, not just an I-frame; (b) if you burn a disc in VR mode you can read it back to the HD later at high speed, whereas finalized Video mode discs can be read back only in real time.

I recommend editing the master copy on the HDD. I try not to do any edits in the copy list. I can't see any disadvantages to editing the master copy, unless you think you may regret losing the commercials and want them back. :)

I agree. I haven't done nearly as much editing on the 640 as I have on the 520 (which I've had about two years longer, and still prefer in many instances), but I think that most of the relatively few "Copy ERR" burn failures I've experienced were with material that was heavily edited inside the Copy List. If you're going to do your edits there, I think it is prudent to minimize the # of edits and the # of titles there. The main reason to edit there at all, as far as I'm concerned, would be if you wanted to cut the same material two or three different ways, for different uses.

The "flexibility", AFAIK, is in just two things: (a) in VR mode you can put a chapter edit on any frame, not just an I-frame; (b) if you burn a disc in VR mode you can read it back to the HD later at high speed, whereas finalized Video mode discs can be read back only in real time.

These can be very useful advantages at times, particularly the latter.

Title Retention for Dish Users

I posted this in the thread set up to persuade Pioneer to fix the title overwrite problem, but thought it might be useful in this thread also.

Just joined the forum. It has been very useful to me in selecting video components. I got my DVR640 a couple of months ago. Hope I am not boring you with repetition, because this information was all gleaned from the forum, but I don't recall seeing it all in one post.

The following information applies to Dish satellite users. It may also be useful for Direct TV users.

Without the firmware upgrade for titles, I am able to record programs and have the correct title appear in the Disk Navigator list. Here are the steps required to make this happen:

1. Set the Dish Network satellite receiver (mine is a Dishpro 301 model) with a VCR code that will enable it to start and stop the DVR640 recordings. In my case, the code is 573.
Menu --> System Setup --> Installation --> VCR Setup --> 573

2. Set the DVR640 to set thumbnails at three minutes into the recording.
Home Menu --> Initial Setup --> Recording --> Set Thumbnail --> 3 Minutes

3. Use the timer function of the Dish receiver to select programs to be recorded. Select "VCR" for the Timer Type. I do not select the "Start One Minute Early" option.

4. Leave the DVR640 "ON" while it is waiting for the programs to be recorded.

5. This may be important: I have a regular RF cable running from the "Ouput to TV" connector behind the Dish receiver to the RF input connector on the DVR640. I think I read that this is the input from which the DVR640 gets the program title information. This input connection is in addition to the A/V connection I normally use for viewing.

That's it. The Dish receiver sends signals to the DVR640 to start and stop recording. There is no separate"IR Blaster" being used. The Dish receiver emits IR remote control signals that supposedly bounce off objects or a wall and reflect back to the DRV640, telling it to start and stop recording. My boxes sit in a cabinet with a slightly tinted glass door in front, and the Dish receiver sits directly on top of the DVR640.

I have noticed that when I use the DVR640 timer to record a program, the title initially appears in the Navigator list, but it is apparently overwritten when the DVR640 timer decides to stop the recording. However, when I use the remote control to stop a recording, the title is not overwritten. This is why having the Dish receiver turn on and of the recording allows the title to be retained.

The three minute thumbnail setting is important because the shorter time settings do not give the DVR640 time to receive title information for the program being recording. That results in capturing the title of the program that was being received immediately prior to the recorded program.

Since I live in a relatively remote area, I rely on Dish satellite for all my TV viewing, so my title problems are solved, without having to upgrade the firmware.

Welcome, ianm! Have you looked at the Hints & Tips thread at
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=793772 ?


Thanks very much for this link. I had searched around to see if there was a FAQ thread or something like that for the 640H-S, but I didn't find anything. I was searching on "640H-S" though - I think it would have taken me a long while to stumble upon "PIO640" as something to search on in the title :)



In video mode editing, the recorder enforces editing only on an I-frame (exact second or half second). As far as I know, that's the only difference between the two modes when you select "Chapter Edit" from Disc Navigator.

Since I always burn discs in video mode, I always edit in video mode so that my chapter edits come out where I put them.



Okay, I tried out doing my first edits, I am trying video mode directly on the HDD and I see now it does force you to put the cut points on I-frames. So if you're intending to high speed dub, it makes no sense to edit in anything other than video mode. I guess it would be nice to be able to make your cuts 100% clean, but if I end up burning multiple shows onto DL discs, real time dubbing is going to end up being pretty time consuming. I've already taped about 30 hours of shows already, in just a couple of weeks.

What will happen to the supply chain of these units in the next few weeks? Will they dry up? Prices increase? Will currently out of stock stores get any future shipments? Where's the best place to get one now?

Theron

I have searched this forum and have not found the answer to this question:

Does anyone know the remote code to record on a DVR-640 from a Pioneer 5070 TVs TV Guide system using the G-link cable? I have tried it, the Pioneer codes DO NOT WORK!

The DVR-640 manual states you can control a DVR-640 from a STB with Pioneer VCR codes. But you cannot control recording on a DVR-640 from a Pioneer TV????? It doesn't make sense to me.

I hope I'm wrong, does anyone know the code? I called Pioneer today, they say it can't be done (and they're a little "snippy").

TIA, Rick

What will happen to the supply chain of these units in the next few weeks? Will they dry up? Prices increase? Will currently out of stock stores get any future shipments? Where's the best place to get one now?

I have an order for one on hold at Amazon, and saw at least one other site which claims this unit has been discontinued. Have the digital tuner versions from Pioneer (which were announced in Japan last year) been slated to have USA variants in place of the 640H-S, perhaps?

I'm wondering if I should cancel this (likely to stay stalled) order and wait for a new digital tuner DVD/HDD model, essentially.

- ooofest

I don't know anything about this but after reading TPKeller2's message, I did some online retail checking and found that none of the main stores have any units. There were a couple that claimed to have them but would you feel comfortable ordering from Shoplift.com?

ooofest's message lead me to do a search on digital tuners and sure enough, Pioneer sells a model DVR 940 HX-S in Europe that sports a 500 GB hard drive. That sounded encouraging until I read another article from mid-2006 that said Pioneer was stopping it's development of DVRs.

I hope to read more here from those who know what's going on. I bought my 640 one month ago and it's doing everything I hoped for.

. . . Pioneer sells a model DVR 940 HX-S in Europe that sports a 500 GB hard drive. That sounded encouraging until I read another article from mid-2006 that said Pioneer was stopping it's development of DVRs. . .

I'd be curious about that article with respect to this Japan-only announcement from late 2006: http://edageek.com/2006/09/14/pioneer-hdd-dvd-recorders/ .

Well, I cancelled my Amazon order and am hoping for a credit to come back (i.e., I used AMEX Membership Rewards for the attempted purchase and they have not yet credited my points back) so that I can purchase a Toshiba RD-XS35, instead.

Your Pioneer is a great unit - I'll just need to begin purchasing -R/RW blanks instead of my usual +R/RW.

- ooofest

Will there be a difference in the quality if I record strait to the DVD and not from the hard drive?Or is there no difference from recording in high speed from the hard drive to the DVD?If they were both set and the same recording setting.I have my 640H-S hooked up to my Dishnetwork 942 HD with the first inputs using the RCA jacks.I record alot of High Definition stuff and then record to DVD and I would like the best picture quality. I am going to use the Taiyo Yuden 8x DVD-R Silver Thermal Lacquer DVD's.Will the s video input give me a better picture quality?Thanks :D

1. No diff between recording to HDD or to DVD.
2. No diff recording from HDD to DVD, it's just a data transfer activity.
3. S input will give you a better quality than composite.

oofest: Here's that article from November 29 about the European DVR.

http://www.dvdrecorderworld.com/news/424

oofest: Here's that article from November 29 about the European DVR.
http://www.dvdrecorderworld.com/news/424

This makes me curious about a couple things, in case anyone has more info:

1) Are these still Pioneers, or just the first of their rebadging efforts with Panasonic or whomever ? (Panasonic DVRs don't enjoy anywhere near the reputation of the Pioneer models.)

2) Price and importation factors aside, would this unit be usable in the U.S. (or Canada) at all ? Probably not, if they were made for PAL and for European electrical.

the tuner will be PAL although the electrical maybe switchable.

oofest: Here's that article from November 29 about the European DVR.

http://www.dvdrecorderworld.com/news/424

Thanks - that model doesn't strike me as having much relationship to the Japan-announced models, at first blush. Perhaps they are using different manufacturers/vendors for the various geo markets?

- ooofest

FYI. There are a couple Pioneer models currently available in the U.S. with HDMI output, DV input and either a 250 GB or 400 GB HD. They also are multi-format (NTSC & PAL) and multi-region. The models are the DVR-645H and DVR-745H. I've seen them listed at B&H Photo and elsewhere selling for $700 & $950. At least it's cheaper than the eBay nonsense reported in another thread about some Panasonic recorder.

the tuner will be PAL although the electrical maybe switchable.

You can run most anything Euro-electrical here on a transformer, if you absolutely had to -- that's not the only problem. Anything with a motor (motor bushings ?) is going to turn at a specific speed . . . which will be wrong on the other electrical system. (There are also excess heat and wear and tear issues, from what I recall.) An expensive multi-format machine like the ones mentioned by HealeyGuy could have the hardware inside to cover all contingencies. At least, at those prices, you would hope so.

I need to buy some more DVD-R. Previously I've been using Sony 8x, but after I bought my last spindle they shifted manufacturing out of Japan. I've read in other fora that one should buy *only* Japanese-made media, not Chinese or Indian or Mexican.

I found Taiyo Yudens on the Net, for not much more than Staples or Office Depot sale prices on their house brands. My question is, is there any benefit to 16x or will the Pioneer take just as long to burn them as 8x? (Not that 8x takes too long. 10 minutes is darn fast.) Or outside of speed, would the 16x have any advantage over the 8x -- greater long-term stability, maybe?

would the 16x have any advantage over the 8x -- greater long-term stability, maybe? The lower the burn speed, the better: less failures. less errors. And therefore longer life. I wouldn't use anything higher than 8x.

For the most part, Japan is the way to go.

The 640 is my first DVDR, and I fianlly got my first coaster, after about 500 burns. I was dubbing from the HDD to a Verbatim -R 16x disc, at high speed. I noticed it seemed to be taking way too long. After about 15 minutes it said "cannot complete copy." It showed enough time remaining on the disc to do the entire thing, so I tried again with the same disc. It seemed to work, but would not play after it completed. I looked at the disc, and there was a ring of unrecorded color, about a half inch from the inner edge of the recordable part. It was only about 1/16 inch in thickness, except that it had flares running out toward the outside edge, that were about 1/8 inch long. So, it that what a coaster usually looks like, or how it behaves?

...is there any benefit to 16x or will the Pioneer take just as long to burn them as 8x? (Not that 8x takes too long. 10 minutes is darn fast.) Or outside of speed, would the 16x have any advantage over the 8x -- greater long-term stability, maybe?My experience with the Pioneer 633 is that the burn time on 16X media is pretty much identical to 8X. The 640's burner could be faster, but I doubt you'd see more than 30 or 60 seconds difference. You're certainly not going to burn anything in half the time, that's for sure.

As far as stability goes, I wouldn't count on 16X media being any better. This is just a layman's guess, but since the dyes have to be burned in a much shorter interval (since the disc is spinning faster) I'd expect if anything that they's be more volatile and less stable.

To paraphrase a bumper sticker: "The more 16X media I burn on my Pioneer, the more I like the 8X stuff". (This is from testing the burns on my PC where I can tell what the actual error rates are).

Can I move titles in the menu of an unfinalized DVD? I previously burned some titles onto a DVD, Now I want to add more titles; and I want them to come before the ones aready on the DVD.

Can I move titles in the menu of an unfinalized DVD? I previously burned some titles onto a DVD, Now I want to add more titles; and I want them to come before the ones aready on the DVD.
The only place to change the order of the titles is in the Playlist window. So once they are on the disc that's the order the remain in. The easiest way to change the order is to extract the titles from a finalized disc to a computer and reauthor the DVD with a computer application.

Talking about Verbatim 16x -R disks and burns. How can you tell what error rates are good? I've never been clear on that. Is there a range that things should fall in?

For instance, I burned a disk today using a Pioneer 533 and a Verbatim 16x disk. The results I got were this:

Using 8x CAV

Quality rating: 93.78%
PI Total: 39373
PI Peak: 29
PI Avg: 3
PIF Total: 1799
PIF Peak: 8
PIF Avg: 0
POF Total: 0
Jitter Avg: 9.1%

I don't understand if this is a good burn with a 16x Verbatim or not. the only thing I understand is that errors are suppose to be as low as possible and quality rating should be as close to 100% The rest I need some explaining. Are these bad numbers for a 16x Verbatim -R disk? Do 8x get better numbers than these?

How can you tell what error rates are good? I've never been clear on that. Is there a range that things should fall in?There isn't an absolute rule for that, other than the DVD Standard that says there shouldn't be more than 280 PI Errors per 8 ECC blocks. At error rates below that discs are supposed to be playable, and even above that rate there's some additional safety margin.

The "PlexTools" software I use doesn't give a "quality" metric, so for the discs I burn I look at two figures - the average number of PI Errors per megabyte (not the same as "Avg PI", I calculate it by dividing the total PI Error count by the disc size in megabytes) and the Peak PI Error count (per 8 ECC blocks). I reburn any disc that averages more than 40 PI Errors per megabyte or that has a Peak PI Error count greater than 60.

There's nothing magic about the numbers I use, they're just results that I didn't have too much trouble achieving with decent media. They're way lower than the maximum specified by the DVD standard and so in at least that sense they're very conservative. With good media on a good day I get much better burns even than that - my best disc so far (a Maxell-branded Taiyo Yuden 8X) averaged less than 4 PI Errors per MB with a peak of 9. Most of my burns average closer to 20 errors/MB with a peak in the 20s.

It looks to me like your Verbatim 16X burn was one that I'd consider to be quite good. I haven't been as lucky with Verbatim 16X media (I usually get peak error rates well into the 100s and even 200s), but my Pioneer 633 dates from the 8X media days and the firmware in your 640 burner may be a better match for the newer discs.

My experience with the Pioneer 633 is that the burn time on 16X media is pretty much identical to 8X. ...

As far as stability goes, I wouldn't count on 16X media being any better. ...

To paraphrase a bumper sticker: "The more 16X media I burn on my Pioneer, the more I like the 8X stuff". (This is from testing the burns on my PC where I can tell what the actual error rates are).

Thanks (and thanks to Signal-Green as well.) I'll go ahead and order the 8x.

Can I move titles in the menu of an unfinalized DVD? I previously burned some titles onto a DVD, Now I want to add more titles; and I want them to come before the ones aready on the DVD.This may be a long-shot, but if your unfinalized DVD is in VR mode, you can high-speed copy the contents back to the HDD and re-order all you like. If not, you could copy back to DVD in real-time, but of course you take a bit of a hit on the pq.

Thanks (and thanks to Signal-Green as well.) I'll go ahead and order the 8x.

Okay, I feel stupid asking this, but what is a "stacking ring"? Via Froogle I found
http://www.cdrdvdrmedia dot com/taiyo-yuden-8x-dvd-r-silver-thermal.html which contains the description "Taiyo Yuden 8X DVD-R Media 4.7GB Silver Thermal Lacquer No Stacking Ring Blank DVDR Disc on Spindle (DVD-R47ZZSB8)". It's on a spindle but has no stacking ring?!

Also, any reason not to buy thermal-printer DVD-Rs? I have no intention of running them through any kind of printer, so would I be better off with the white lacquer ones or doesn't it matter?

what is a "stacking ring"?It's a ring around the hub of the DVD where the plastic is a little thicker than the rest of the surface. When the DVDs are stacked on a spindle they touch each other at the stacking ring so that the recording surfaces don't come into contact (unless you bend the stack or press down on the outer portion of the disc surface).

It's molded into the DVD when it's manufactured, rather than being something that's "added on" later.

any reason not to buy thermal-printer DVD-Rs? I have no intention of running them through any kind of printer, so would I be better off with the white lacquer ones or doesn't it matter?They should work just fine. I stumbled onto Maxell "Plus Series" print-to-centre DVDs which turned out to actually be Taiyo Yuden (TYG02) media. For some reason these have given better results in my Pioneer 633 than the "genuine" silver-top TYG02 Taiyo Yudens I was using last year, so I've been buying them and been very pleased with the results.

I stumbled onto Maxell "Plus Series" print-to-centre DVDs which turned out to actually be Taiyo Yuden (TYG02) media. For some reason these have given better results in my Pioneer 633 than the "genuine" silver-top TYG02 Taiyo Yudens I was using last year, so I've been buying them and been very pleased with the results.

Where'd you get them, where'd you get them???????
I want some, I want some!

Any place here in the US where I could order some and what to look for?
For 26 years I was a fan of Maxells until I read about them now being made in Taiwan.

It's a ring around the hub of the DVD where the plastic is a little thicker than the rest of the surface. When the DVDs are stacked on a spindle they touch each other at the stacking ring so that the recording surfaces don't come into contact (unless you bend the stack or press down on the outer portion of the disc surface).

It's molded into the DVD when it's manufactured, rather than being something that's "added on" later.

Thanks Sean. I'm surprised that T-Y would come on a spindle without that, but I guess if they're not handled roughly there's no reason they would get scratched while on the spindle.

I ordered two 50-packs at $15 each including ground shipping.

I'm surprised that T-Y would come on a spindle without that, but I guess if they're not handled roughly there's no reason they would get scratched while on the spindle.


All the "Hub" printables are like that.
They still have a ridge on the underside for protection.

New Question. Is it okay to use a Sharpie to write my titles on the DVD disks? The old Sony's I used to buy had some lines which I assumed were just for that. But the new silver-top TYG02 Taiyo Yudens don't have any markings on them. I've been doing it and it seems okay but just wondered. Thanks.

Where'd you get them, where'd you get them???????
I want some, I want some!I'm extremely fortunate to live about 20 minutes' walking distance from a Canadian online dealer called Anitek (http://www.anitec.ca/), that's where I found them. They're also available at NCIX (http://www.ncix.com/), another Canadian dealer that's in my general vicinity.

Is this just to protect them or something we should be concerned about?
I have read that on their packages before and still used them with no problem.

Sean, are these them? Are they made in Japan????????

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/urlee/MaxellPrintable.jpg

Warning: This DVD-R disc is designed for recording with “1X, 2X, 4X and 8X” write speed compatible DVD-R drives and/or video recorders. Use of this disc with some “1X” write speed DVD-R drives and/or recorders may cause the drive and/or recorders to become unresponsive, resulting in permanent damage to the drive and/or recorder and this disc. Before using this disc in “1X-2X” DVD-R drives and/or recorders please visit http://www.dvdhs.com or contact your hardware manufacturer directly for information regarding free hardware updates to correct this problem. Use of this DVD-R disc in “1X-2X” write speed drives and/or recorders without obtaining the free hardware updates voids the warranty for this DVD-R disc. Maxell and TapeOnline.com® expressly disclaim any liability for all damage and harm resulting from such use, including, but not limited to, damage and harm to hardware or loss of data.

I found a place and ordered some.
From NCIX, you could order but shipping was $14.40 and DVD's were $7.00 more than where I ordered from.
Now I have to see how they pan out. If I like, then they will be my soul ones.

Yes, those are the ones. The packaging is interesting in the fact that it has no UPC code, which gives me the impression that they aren't intended for retail sale. Not sure what the normal marketing channel would be for them, though.

Don't be concerned about the "1X-2X" warning - it's a standard warning for all blank DVD media since the very early days of DVD burners for computers - there were some burners that blew up when the first batches of 2X media came out - those drives required firmware upgrades for the faster media. All of the DVD manufacturers put the warnings on their discs to ensure they're not liable if someone uses them and ruins their old DVD drive, but any drive made in the 5 years or so will be just fine.

The ones I bought recently (some from NCIX and some from Anitek) were Taiyo Yudens (TYG02) which are made in Japan. The ones I bought last year were actually made by Maxell themselves (media code MXL RG03), also from Japan. Those also burned very well in my Pioneer 633.

Where did you buy them from?

The ones I bought recently (some from NCIX and some from Anitek) were Taiyo Yudens (TYG02) which are made in Japan. The ones I bought last year were actually made by Maxell themselves (media code MXL RG03), also from Japan. Those also burned very well in my Pioneer 633.

Where did you buy them from?

Thanks for your info back at me.

I ordered them from tapeonline (http://www.tapeonline.com/DVD-R/Maxell_DVD-RPW_47GP_8X_White_Inkjet_Printable_Hub.aspx) and they shall arrive on Monday, the 12th.

On-screen menus (like title edit) -- with my 633, the font was crystal clear; with the 640 it's hard to read. The best way I know to describe it is that it looks like a Windows XP PC that needs to have the "ClearType" settings adjusted. My connections and my TV are all just what they were with the 633. Is there some video setting on the 640 that I need to tweak? I can't imagine what it would be, because the actual picture quality for recorded or live programs is excellent.Found this pdf (http://www.pioneerfaq.info/filer/DVR-630/Service_Mode.pdf) today which addresses fuzzy menus on Pioneer recorders, and a way to get around it if you have a service remote. I bet it applies to the 640 too. If you are thinking of updating the firmware, maybe you could ask them to do that at the same time?

Found this site (http://www.pioneerfaq.info/english/dvr630.php?player=DVR-630H&question=PDF) today with very useful information about replacing and upgrading the HDD in Pioneer units including the 640. Very detailed and seems to imply if done correctly you can indeed put in a larger HDD (eg 500Gb).

There's also helpful stuff about aspect ratios/widescreen signal retention which I suspect also applies to the 640.

Here's a pdf (http://www.pioneerfaq.info/filer/replacing_HDD_X4XH(X).pdf) with detailed info about how to upgrade the HDD.

Very interesting info. Thanks!

Found this pdf (http://www.pioneerfaq.info/filer/DVR-630/Service_Mode.pdf) today which addresses fuzzy menus on Pioneer recorders, and a way to get around it if you have a service remote. I bet it applies to the 640 too. If you are thinking of updating the firmware, maybe you could ask them to do that at the same time?Interesting... you didn't mention one other thing on that page which is very important to all of us, especially now that the 640 we have is the only one we will ever have!

How to check how much use your laser has had?

DVD lasers do not last very long, around 5000 hours of combined write and read use, if you are getting write or read problems you can check how many hours have been used on your Pioneer recorder...We've talked about this a lot here, but this document is from a Pioneer web site... seems to add a bit of authenticity to the advice to use a cheapo DVD player for playbacks, and save the laser for DVD writing only.

Theron

...but this document is from a Pioneer web site... seems to add a bit of authenticity to the advice to use a cheapo DVD player for playbacks, and save the laser for DVD writing only.Just to clarify: I believe the advice to replace the burner after about 4700 hours comes from Pioneer, but the rest of the website is not from Pioneer. I realize it's a bit of a stretch for anyone to think the website is posted by Pioneer, but I've seen stranger perceptions and a likeness of the Pioneer logo is used.

Just to clarify: I believe the advice to replace the burner after about 4700 hours comes from Pioneer, but the rest of the website is not from Pioneer. I realize it's a bit of a stretch for anyone to think the website is posted by Pioneer, but I've seen stranger perceptions and a likeness of the Pioneer logo is used.Oops, I totally missed the details on that site name! Sorry, thanks for the clarification!

Theron

I need to buy some more DVD-R. Previously I've been using Sony 8x, but after I bought my last spindle they shifted manufacturing out of Japan. I've read in other fora that one should buy *only* Japanese-made media, not Chinese or Indian or Mexican...

I lost my bookmarks when my notebook suddenly would not turn on (and Toshiba, in it's wisdom, replaced the HD--which turned out *not* to be the problem). I had a site's page where media was rated. Sony, both Japanese and Taiwanese, was listed in the #1 category. As I recall, there were 4 or 5 categories of media, with #1 being the best.

I did start using Made in Taiwan Sony 8X's when I could not longer find Made in Japan. In all honesty, I have had the same 100% success rate with them as I had with the Japanee ones.

I had a site's page where media was rated. Sony, both Japanese and Taiwanese, was listed in the #1 category. As I recall, there were 4 or 5 categories of media, with #1 being the best.Was this the site you had bookmarked?

http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm

Theron

Hi
I will be making this post under duress (because this might not be the correct forum)
I received my 640 Monday, been scaning all thru these pages (all 85 pages) for the kind of info that I need, couldn't find it. I do remember reading some posts from August, where someone was giving Urlee a very gentle spanking for not sticking to the subject matter of this forum, so at the risk of getting a spanking. Here it goes:
My old setup connections were Dish Network RF from wall to DishPro 301 "Satellite In", then from "TV Set Out" (w/RF cable) to my Sylvania VHS/DVD Combo Recorder "Antenna In", then from "Antenna Out" (w/RF cable) to Panasonic TV (15-17 years old) "ANT 1" RF connector. I have been playing/recording, watching TV with this configuration for years.
So I made the same connections, only replacing the Sylvania with the Pioneer. After all of the connections were done. All components were on and I had audio and video, but when I went to the PIO640 remote to do the "setup" the menu picture would not come on the TV (it did show the word Menu in the pio's little display window, tried a DVD disc. no DVD picture and sound, so the recorder was not outputing to the TV.
So I decided to do the setup that's in the manual (page 21) for Satelite Receiver (2): RF from wall to DishPro 301 "Sat In", then from "composite connectors (r/w/y) to my new Pioneer 640 "Input 1" (composite), then from "Output 1" (S-Video & A/V cables) to Panasonic TV (15-17 years old) "S-Video Input" (S-Video & A/V cables) I had No picture or sound at all on the TV (except loud noise and lots of snow), not until I pressed the TV/Video switch to Video mode (switch was on front of TV beside the Channel up/down, Volume and Power buttons) then I had a picture on TV from DVD Disk that I loaded, but I had no sound. I opened the door on the front of TV (the one that has all of the color adjustments, and etc. etc. I pressed a button that switched from Video to S-Video, AND I now have sound and picture, also can play DVD disk. can do the menu setup, disk nav, everything, I haven't tried to record but I think I can. BUT when I went to turn the Pio off, the TV picture and sound (I was watching Lifetime at the time) also went off. Turned Pio back on, TV picture and sound came back on.
I have 3 questions:
1. Has anyone in this forum (that has Dish Network) have had the same kind of problems?
2. Does anyone have any idea what I'm doing wrong?
3. Could this TV be so old (15-17 years old) that the S-Video connections are really just for a a video game or something like that? Maybe that's why I had to switch from TV mode to Video Mode On the TV.

I would be honored to hear any ideas or info, or even to steer me to the correct forum. I'm open for pros or cons.
I want to thank you very much,
Stephanie

P.S. I look forward to the day that I can just jump in here and talk about my uses for this nice machine.

Where'd you get them, where'd you get them???????
Any place here in the US where I could order some and what to look for?
For 26 years I was a fan of Maxells until I read about them now being made in Taiwan.

I'm not sure about their DVDs, but Maxell's CD-R MusicPro CDs say "made in japan" on the actual disk. I assume the CD-R Pro's are the same (I've used both and can't tell a difference). Those I can only find in Wal-Mart...and they don't sell spindles of them anymore- just 10 packs. They're the only kind that work in my car's stereo, so yeah.

I don't pay attention, but they probably have a type of DVD Pro or some equivalent.

I just ordered a 640 on Wednesday. I would like to start reading the manual while I wait for it to come in. I have seen some refereces in this thread to it being available online. I found it at Pioneer but you need to have a password to get it. Can someone give me a link where I can get it?

Was this the site you had bookmarked?

http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm

Theron

Yes, Theron, thank you!!!

So I decided to do the setup that's in the manual (page 21) for Satelite Receiver (2): RF from wall to DishPro 301 "Sat In", then from "composite connectors (r/w/y) to my new Pioneer 640 "Input 1" (composite), then from "Output 1" (S-Video & A/V cables) to Panasonic TV (15-17 years old) "S-Video Input" (S-Video & A/V cables) I had No picture or sound at all on the TV (except loud noise and lots of snow), not until I pressed the TV/Video switch to Video mode (switch was on front of TV beside the Channel up/down, Volume and Power buttons) then I had a picture on TV from DVD Disk that I loaded, but I had no sound. I opened the door on the front of TV (the one that has all of the color adjustments, and etc. etc. I pressed a button that switched from Video to S-Video, AND I now have sound and picture, also can play DVD disk. can do the menu setup, disk nav, everything, I haven't tried to record but I think I can. BUT when I went to turn the Pio off, the TV picture and sound (I was watching Lifetime at the time) also went off. Turned Pio back on, TV picture and sound came back on.
I have 3 questions:
1. Has anyone in this forum (that has Dish Network) have had the same kind of problems?
2. Does anyone have any idea what I'm doing wrong?
3. Could this TV be so old (15-17 years old) that the S-Video connections are really just for a a video game or something like that? Maybe that's why I had to switch from TV mode to Video Mode On the TV.Hi Stephanie: Congrats on getting one of the last 640s available. (BTW: I'm Urlee's "gentle spanker" but if you read on you would have seen I changed my tune...didn't realize at the time you could search by post instead of by thread.)

You aren't doing anything wrong, and neither is your equipment if I understand correctly. The 640 has just an RF pass-through...it does not output what it's playing or recording via RF. You must use one of the 3 types of output to your TV: composite (RCA), s-video or component. Component is best, then s--video and then composite.

The way you have it hooked up, you have to leave the 640 on to watch TV. There are other ways to connect that would eliminate that requirement:

1) Assuming your sat box only has 1 RF out and 1 s-video out: Use RF from the sat box to the TV (and switch to TV using the TV's TV/Video switch) to watch TV without the 640 on. Then use s-video from sat box to 640, and then from 640 to the TV (switch to Video on the TV) to watch from the 640.

2) (Preferred) If your stereo is an A/V receiver that can handle video as well, use s-video from sat box and 640 to the A/V Receiver, and then use s-video from the A/V Receiver to the TV. This way, just selecting the input source on the A/V receiver switches sound and video and you get the benefit of dolby surround if your A/V receiver is capable of that.

Hi
I will be making this post under duress (because this might not be the correct forum)
I received my 640 Monday, been scaning all thru these pages (all 85 pages) for the kind of info that I need, couldn't find it. I do remember reading some posts from August, where someone was giving Urlee a very gentle spanking for not sticking to the subject matter of this forum, so at the risk of getting a spanking. Here it goes:
My old setup connections were Dish Network RF from wall to DishPro 301 "Satellite In", then from "TV Set Out" (w/RF cable) to my Sylvania VHS/DVD Combo Recorder "Antenna In", then from "Antenna Out" (w/RF cable) to Panasonic TV (15-17 years old) "ANT 1" RF connector. I have been playing/recording, watching TV with this configuration for years.
So I made the same connections, only replacing the Sylvania with the Pioneer. After all of the connections were done. All components were on and I had audio and video, but when I went to the PIO640 remote to do the "setup" the menu picture would not come on the TV (it did show the word Menu in the pio's little display window, tried a DVD disc. no DVD picture and sound, so the recorder was not outputing to the TV.
So I decided to do the setup that's in the manual (page 21) for Satelite Receiver (2): RF from wall to DishPro 301 "Sat In", then from "composite connectors (r/w/y) to my new Pioneer 640 "Input 1" (composite), then from "Output 1" (S-Video & A/V cables) to Panasonic TV (15-17 years old) "S-Video Input" (S-Video & A/V cables) I had No picture or sound at all on the TV (except loud noise and lots of snow), not until I pressed the TV/Video switch to Video mode (switch was on front of TV beside the Channel up/down, Volume and Power buttons) then I had a picture on TV from DVD Disk that I loaded, but I had no sound. I opened the door on the front of TV (the one that has all of the color adjustments, and etc. etc. I pressed a button that switched from Video to S-Video, AND I now have sound and picture, also can play DVD disk. can do the menu setup, disk nav, everything, I haven't tried to record but I think I can. BUT when I went to turn the Pio off, the TV picture and sound (I was watching Lifetime at the time) also went off. Turned Pio back on, TV picture and sound came back on.
I have 3 questions:
1. Has anyone in this forum (that has Dish Network) have had the same kind of problems?
2. Does anyone have any idea what I'm doing wrong?
3. Could this TV be so old (15-17 years old) that the S-Video connections are really just for a a video game or something like that? Maybe that's why I had to switch from TV mode to Video Mode On the TV.

I would be honored to hear any ideas or info, or even to steer me to the correct forum. I'm open for pros or cons.
I want to thank you very much,
Stephanie

P.S. I look forward to the day that I can just jump in here and talk about my uses for this nice machine.

I won't attempt to answer your entire posting, but if your TV and 640H both turn on/off when you push the on/off 640H remote, you have to change the remote from Recorder1, the default, to Recorder2 or 3. Do a search of the thread for, "Recorder1," and you will find the posting I made earlier when someone had a similar problem.

I have DirecTV rather than DIsh, but I do not mix-up cables. If S-VIdeo goes from my satellite receiver, I use an S-Video out to the TV. For my other DVD recorder, I use composit in from the satellite receiver and composit out to the TV.

I just ordered a 640 on Wednesday. I would like to start reading the manual while I wait for it to come in. I have seen some refereces in this thread to it being available online. I found it at Pioneer but you need to have a password to get it. Can someone give me a link where I can get it?I hope you get your recorder! There is a whole other thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=814139) on how nobody can find them any more!

Where did you order it from?

Theron

[QUOTE=ACPewty]

1) Assuming your sat box only has 1 RF out and 1 s-video out: Use RF from the sat box to the TV (and switch to TV using the TV's TV/Video switch) to watch TV without the 640 on. Then use s-video from sat box to 640, and then from 640 to the TV (switch to Video on the TV) to watch from the 640.

This is the way I made the connections, And it works great. It's easy to push the TV/Video button. I'll probably leave it this way until later on, then I'll try the receiver. I'm not really set up for that right now.
And also I changed the composite cable from sat to pio with S-Video. Now I'm using S-Video for every connection except sat box to TV (for the TV Mode), and that is only because the TV doesn't have 2 S-Video.

Thank you very much ACPewty.

P.S. I did know that it was you that gave the "gentle spanking", and I did read the following pages where you kinda said I'm sorry. I was only kidding you, I saw where you made a post yesterday or the day before, and I kinda was hoping you would respond.

Thanks again,
Stephanie

I won't attempt to answer your entire posting, but if your TV and 640H both turn on/off when you push the on/off 640H remote, you have to change the remote from Recorder1, the default, to Recorder2 or 3. Do a search of the thread for, "Recorder1," and you will find the posting I made earlier when someone had a similar problem.

I have DirecTV rather than DIsh, but I do not mix-up cables. If S-VIdeo goes from my satellite receiver, I use an S-Video out to the TV. For my other DVD recorder, I use composit in from the satellite receiver and composit out to the TV.



Hi ngohit

Thank you very much for your response. I tried that but it didn't work. But ACPewty gave me a solution.
Thanks very much again,
Stephanie

P.S. I'll post later, after I do some playing around with my new toy. I really shouldn't call the Pio640 a toy, it's a great Recorder.

I hope you get your recorder! There is a whole other thread on how nobody can find them any more!

Where did you order it from?

Theron

Well, it looks like I may have allowed myself to be screwed by my impulsive buy. I have been reading about Hypeaudio that I bought it from. I started wondering what was wrong when I didnt get the tracking numberr right away - next day at the latest - without asking. I ordered on wednesday. So far, no tracking number, and i f ell for the cheap extended warranty scam too - :( well, at least it wasnt for a big screen. :o

In all fairness I should give them the benefit of the doubt - until monday morning.

I just read some about HypeAudio too and you're right. It doesn't sound good. Can you put a stop on your credit card order through your credit card company? One report stated that they charge the CC as soon as the order is placed rather than when it is shipped. So, at the least you probably ought to check with your CC company and see if they have charged you already. Sorry, guy. But hey, maybe you'll get lucky and they'll treat you just right.

HP Direct AV (http://www.hpdirectav.com/item.aspx?eid=8&pid=103093) appears to still have the 640 available to ship for $369.99 incl. UPS ground shipping.

They state they sell only NEW items and offer full Factory U.S. Warranties. The Pio website is down for maintenance, so can't check. They have a 5-star rating at CNET.

Here's a page on their policies (http://www.hpdirectav.com/info.aspx) (note "Cancellation" policy) and their tel. no.

Well, I called Hypeaudio this morning (They are open on Sunday but closed on Saturday). On the first two calls I was cut off after being on hold for several minutes - not looking good. On the third attempt my call was answered and I was told that my order had shipped on Thursday and that I would have the tracking number email "within the hour". He didn't have any answer as to why I had not got the tracking number on Friday as promised. To my surprise, I did get the email within the hour and UPS shows it was shipped on Thursday form someplace in Georgia. Since this is a New York company, I don't know why it was shipped from Georgia unless they have a warehouse there. At any rate, it has a scheduled arrival of this coming Wednesday. So, except for not sending the tracking number promptly, and their website and phone problems, I don't have any complaint at this point. Keeping my fingers and toes crossed till Wednesday.

Well, I called Hypeaudio this morning (They are open on Sunday but closed on Saturday). On the first two calls I was cut off after being on hold for several minutes - not looking good. On the third attempt my call was answered and I was told that my order had shipped on Thursday and that I would have the tracking number email "within the hour". He didn't have any answer as to why I had not got the tracking number on Friday as promised. To my surprise, I did get the email within the hour and UPS shows it was shipped on Thursday form someplace in Georgia. Since this is a New York company, I don't know why it was shipped from Georgia unless they have a warehouse there. At any rate, it has a scheduled arrival of this coming Wednesday. So, except for not sending the tracking number promptly, and their website and phone problems, I don't have any complaint at this point. Keeping my fingers and toes crossed till Wednesday.


I am really glad for you, I've been there before. It is an awlful feeling. I bet that takes a big load off of your shoulders! Have a great day!

Found this pdf (http://www.pioneerfaq.info/filer/DVR-630/Service_Mode.pdf) today which addresses fuzzy menus on Pioneer recorders, and a way to get around it if you have a service remote. I bet it applies to the 640 too. If you are thinking of updating the firmware, maybe you could ask them to do that at the same time?

Thanks for posting, but that seems to apply to an LCD-type TV. I have a regular old CRT.

Also, it references the 630 -- menus on the TV from my 630 were quite clear. So whatever's going on is a difference between the 630 and the 640.

Thanks anyway. ;)

I am really glad for you, I've been there before. It is an awlful feeling. I bet that takes a big load off of your shoulders! Have a great day!
Thanks, I'll update on wednesday. (As it happens I'll be off work on Wednesday so I'll have some time to play)

Thanks for posting, but that seems to apply to an LCD-type TV. I have a regular old CRT.

Also, it references the 630 -- menus on the TV from my 630 were quite clear. So whatever's going on is a difference between the 630 and the 640.

My 640 is hooked up to a nearly 20 year-old CRT via composite cables -- because there was no S-vid option for that tv -- and the menus and other onscreen displays are faint and fuzzy to the point of being almost unreadable. As it is, I have to guess about a lot of things I see in the OSD, extrapolating from what I know of the 520's menus and controls. (I keep that old tv because it still works reasonably well, and has some pro monitor features that remain uncommon. I don't know if the 640's poor text display here is the fault of the dvr, the tv, the cabling, or all three, but I'm inclined to fault the tv primarily.)

My 520 is hooked up to a 10 year old CRT via S-Vid and everything that's problemmatical with the 640 OSD is pretty good there, with the exception of a couple characters in the character generator. In particular, the lowercase "m" looks more like an "n". I've also hooked up a 520 to a latter day Sharp Aquos LCD for a relative (S-Vid again), and everything looks quite good. Even the lowercase "m". So, there are some variables at work here. I'll be curious to see how the 640 looks for OSD whenever I replace that old tv with something up to date, and improve the cabling.

Thanks for posting, but that seems to apply to an LCD-type TV. I have a regular old CRT.

Also, it references the 630 -- menus on the TV from my 630 were quite clear. So whatever's going on is a difference between the 630 and the 640.

Thanks anyway. ;)Didn't you have the 633, not the 630? The pdf refers to the 630 but a lot if things are carried forward to newer models, including hidden stuff like the method to view your firmware revision number described here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9999947&&#post9999947) .

If it bothers you as much as it seemed to before, it might still be worth a look. It mentions the on-screen menus are softened to reduce flicker on CRT displays which may cause characters to appear to be out of focus on LCD or Plasma displays, but it doesn't necessarily exclude CRT displays. I see no reason to believe adjusting the OSD filter setting won't necessarily help on a CRT TV. The problem is you need a service remote or comparable programmable remote unless you have Pioneer do it for you, perhaps when updating the firmware to v6.20?

I have mentioned this before, but for the benefit of Seeker47: I have one of my 640s hooked up to a Sharp AQUOS LCD via component and the OSD is very clear, much more so than my CRT/composite setup.

i just got a samsung hd tuner...and here are the specs:

http://www.samsung.com/Products/DigitalSetTopBox/HDTVTuners/DTB_H260FXAA.asp?page=Specifications

for outputs...it has the following:
Video: HDMI with HDCP
Component out (Y, PB, PR)
S-Video out
Composite (RCA) out

so can i connect my 640 to this unit and record stuff off it? and then when i replay back the recorded stuff...will it be 480p? because right now im using 640 to record stuff off my analog cable box which is 480i, but then when i play back the recorded stuff...it said it is 480p on my tv? so again..my question is:

1. can i connect my 640 to this samsung hd tuner to record stuff?
2. when i play back the recorded stuff...will it be 480p?

I don't know if the 640's poor text display here is the fault of the dvr, the tv, the cabling, or all three, but I'm inclined to fault the tv primarily.

You can, but for me it's the 640 that is at fault.

I had a 633 and the on-screen menus were quite clear. I unplugged the 633 and plugged in the 640, and the menus are very hard to read -- 8's and 6's indistinguishable, i's indistinguishable from l's, etc. Those are just examples -- *no* text is really readable. Nothing changed between the two setups except the recorder model.

Well-meaning people make suggestions about changing my setup, and some of them I adopted (like going from component to S-video). But I can't get past the fact that my setup was just fine with the 633 and it's not with the 640.

Besides, if my setup were at fault, I'd expect picture quality to be degraded, and it's not. It's just the on-screen menus, video that the 640 generates for itself.

As far as I can see, It's just something I have to live with.

Found this pdf (http://www.pioneerfaq.info/filer/DVR-630/Service_Mode.pdf) today which addresses fuzzy menus on Pioneer recorders, and a way to get around it if you have a service remote. I bet it applies to the 640 too. If you are thinking of updating the firmware, maybe you could ask them to do that at the same time?

Thanks for posting, but that seems to apply to an LCD-type TV. I have a regular old CRT.

Also, it references the 630 -- menus on the TV from my 630 were quite clear. So whatever's going on is a difference between the 630 and the 640.

Didn't you have the 633, not the 630? The pdf refers to the 630 but a lot if things are carried forward to newer models, including hidden stuff like the method to view your firmware revision number described here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9999947&&#post9999947) .

I see no reason to believe adjusting the OSD filter setting won't necessarily help on a CRT TV.

You're right, it was a 633.

I'd be willing to try this if I had a service remote, but I don't. (You'd think there would be some magic codes one could use with a regular remote to get the DVDR into service mode, but I guess not.)

... unless you have Pioneer do it for you, perhaps when updating the firmware to v6.20?

I'm not sending my unit to Pioneer for the firmware upgrade. I know the bug bothers some people a lot, but it bothers me only a little, and not enough to ustify being without the unit for several weeks.

...

1. can i connect my 640 to this samsung hd tuner to record stuff?
2. when i play back the recorded stuff...will it be 480p?

i think i can answer my own questions..lol.

1. yes thru either rf, composite, or s-video. i can't use the rf since the rf on my 640 is connected to a signal splitter. so it leave me with composite or s-video...and i was told by someone here that s-video is better than composite. so im gonna use s-video then.

2. yes since my 640 is already connected to my tv thru component...plus everything that is being play from all the recorded stuff and dvd movies is already output 480p.

This might be of help to others who are looking where to buy media.

I bought 100 Taiyo Yudens 8x at Media Mega Mall (mediamegamall dot com) for $27 plus $7.42 UPS ground. I placed the order at 1:13 Friday March 9; the site said most orders were delivered within 3-5 business days. Mine was delivered today, two business days after I placed it. It was accurate, and the spindle was encased in bubble wrap inside a shipping box.

I would order from them again.


I had previously tried cdrdvdrmedia dot com (on Wednesday March 7), and I cannot recommend them. To pay by credit card you must go through Paypal, which I don't have a problem with, but after the Paypal payment was complete I was not returned to the site and when I went there on my own I found the order had not been entered. I sent an email of inquiry to the address given in the site's FAQ and it bounced. I called the given phone number during the stated business hours and it was not answered. I called back later in the day and they suggested that I just place the order again! When I demurred, they gave me another number to call and the fellow did courteously and promptly reverse the charge to my credit card. But I would not wish the hassle on anyone.

BaltimoreStan
I had previously tried cdrdvdrmedia dot com (on Wednesday March 7), and I cannot recommend them. To pay by credit card you must go through Paypal, which I don't have a problem with, but after the Paypal payment was complete I was not returned to the site and when I went there on my own I found the order had not been entered. I sent an email of inquiry to the address given in the site's FAQ and it bounced. I called the given phone number during the stated business hours and it was not answered. I called back later in the day and they suggested that I just place the order again! When I demurred, they gave me another number to call and the fellow did courteously and promptly reverse the charge to my credit card. But I would not wish the hassle on anyone.

I had a similar incident happen to me when I placed an order last week for which I waited and waited for a conformation e-mail and status etc. which I never received.
I e-mailed the company about it and they said they have no record of the order and for me to reorder.
I was uncomfortable with it so I called my CC company to see if I was charged and they said no.
I don't know what happened. It was one that goes through a Yahoo store????
It didn't use Yahoo, that I recall, when I ordered from them before?
I went back to that site and my order popped up as if I was to continue with it?
I am sure I clicked on Submit before to where it should have gone through. Anyway, I deleted it and hope that took care of it.
May have been my fault but who knows. At least they replied to my e-mails about it.

I have good luck with a company called Meritline.com. They have the Taiyo Yudens and don't charge shipping.

I received my 640 today from Hypeaudio. It is new and in an unopened box. I have hooked it up and tested the main functions and it seems to work correctly. I don't know why some people have had a bad experience with Hypeaudio but mine turned out to be not too bad. They did take several days to get a tracking number to me but once I got it I found that the purchase was shipped the same day that I ordered it. They are also hard to reach by phone. On four occasions I was cut off after remaining on hold for several minutes. Also, I bought the extended warranty and a week has passed and I haven't received any documentation for it. Will I buy from them again? Probably not. If I had read all of the bad experiences that others have had before ordering this time, I probably wouldn't have. It is just a theory but I think that maybe they don't actually stock some or all of the stuff that they sell. When they receive an order, they search for a place to buy it and have it drop shipped to the customer. If the supplier that they deal with is reputable then the customer probably will be happy with the experience and if not then not. My 640 shipped originally from some place in Georgia. The receipt that i got with the shipment lists one of Hypeaudio's aliases as the supplier. I think I got very lucky and learned a lesson just for the cost of the anxiety I have experienced waiting for the shipemet to arrive.

quick question...there is news everywhere today that the gov't will be giving out $40 coupon to buy a converter if u have an analog box for the 2009 digital requirement.

now the 640 has an analog tuner. when they come out with a converter box...thereotically if i plug that into the 640...the 640 will have an atsc tuner and i will be able to use it to watch ota hd channel? yes or no?

as matter of fact is there any atsc converter box out there now so i can use it with my 640?

I'm not sending my unit to Pioneer for the firmware upgrade. I know the bug bothers some people a lot, but it bothers me only a little, and not enough to ustify being without the unit for several weeks.

Given the current situation, with Pioneer U.S. being much less accomodating than the reports of Pioneer Canada (service appointments and such), I'd have to agree with you. In a way, it is kind of freeing: I know the Title is not going in there anyway, and the 640 is not going to mistakenly pick up the title of whatever airs next on that channel, so I'm not at all reluctant to let the timed interval start earlier and run later. In many cases, this will mean I actually get the whole program or movie ! (Ever try and fail to record all of something that runs after the "elastic" timeslot of boxing on HBO or Showtime, for example ?)

And speaking of bugs, what's up lately with the AVS forum software for Bold, Italics, and all that, where there is no longer any spacing and it all runs right into the adjacent words ?

... And speaking of bugs, what's up lately with the AVS forum software for Bold, Italics, and all that, where there is no longer any spacing and it all runs right into the adjacent words ? Sorry, I haven't seen that although I access the forum through 2 XP desktops and with XP and Mac laptops.

YMMV

I know the Title is not going in there anyway, and the 640 is not going to mistakenly pick up the title of whatever airs next on that channel, so I'm not at all reluctant to let the timed interval start earlier and run later. In many cases, this will mean I actually get the whole program or movie ! (Ever try and fail to record all of something that runs after the "elastic" timeslot of boxing on HBO or Showtime, for example ?)I realize you are happy without the firmware update, but for the benefit of others considering it:

I believe it has been reported that the title capture is tied in with the thumbnail setting (Initial Setup...Recording...Set Thumbnail) so if you set it to 3 minutes, unless you are starting your recording more than 3 minutes early it should capture the right program title if one is broadcast.

I realize you are happy without the firmware update, but for the benefit of others considering it:

I believe it has been reported that the title capture is tied in with the thumbnail setting (Initial Setup...Recording...Set Thumbnail) so if you set it to 3 minutes, unless you are starting your recording more than 3 minutes early it should capture the right program title if one is broadcast.

Maybe it's because I have DirecTV, but before I got the firmware update, there was no title for a recording, just date, time, recording speed.

Maybe it's because I have DirecTV, but before I got the firmware update, there was no title for a recording, just date, time, recording speed.Not even when recording manually (no timer)? I have Starchoice satellite and I get broadcast titles, but not for everything of course.

as matter of fact is there any atsc converter box out there now so i can use it with my 640?

Give Radio Shack a call. If there is, I would expect them to carry one.

Not even when recording manually (no timer)? I have Starchoice satellite and I get broadcast titles, but not for everything of course.

No difference whether I scheduled the recording or just hit the record button before the firmware update.

Set Thumbnail) so if you set it to 3 minutes, unless you are starting your recording more than 3 minutes early it should capture the right program title if one is broadcast.

I kept meaning to set that Thumbnail setting, but somehow never got around to it. I think it must have been a casualty of the ultra-fuzzy menus / text display in my current 640 setup. If it was a familiar menu that was more or less carried over from the 520 days, I could sort of positionally guess at what I was doing, without being able to read it clearly.

I think it must have been a casualty of the ultra-fuzzy menus / text display in my current 640 setup.I just installed a Pioneer 640 right alongside a 533, with one going into a 27" TV's L1 composite input and the other going into it's L2 composite input. I don't see any difference in the text quality of the either machine's menus. The text is very small compared to the menus on our VCR, but it's quite legible.

I kept meaning to set that Thumbnail setting, but somehow never got around to it. I think it must have been a casualty of the ultra-fuzzy menus / text display in my current 640 setup. If it was a familiar menu that was more or less carried over from the 520 days, I could sort of positionally guess at what I was doing, without being able to read it clearly.Wow, that bad eh? What video cabling are you using...composite? Also, how long is the cable, and what type/size of TV? (I'm just curious if there's a pattern here because you're not the first to complain and I'm wondering if I'm just lucky with both of mine...or is it maybe a combination equipment/eyesight thing?)

I just installed a Pioneer 640 right alongside a 533, with one going into a 27" TV's L1 composite input and the other going into it's L2 composite input. I don't see any difference in the text quality of the either machine's menus. The text is very small compared to the menus on our VCR, but it's quite legible.Aha, maybe I'm not losing it after all. :) I was fairly certain I didn't notice any significant difference in menu legibility when I switched from the 633 to the 640. All I really noticed was in improvement in the text size on the timer setup menu on the 640. Thanks Sean.

(Let us know how you like the 640 compared to the x33 series. In particular, since you have used a 533/633 for quite a while, let us know if you notice an improvement in pq on the 640.)

Wow, that bad eh? What video cabling are you using...composite? Also, how long is the cable, and what type/size of TV? (I'm just curious if there's a pattern here because you're not the first to complain and I'm wondering if I'm just lucky with both of mine...or is it maybe a combination equipment/eyesight thing?)
This is exactly why I put very little credence to some of the anecdotal PQ opinions that are posted. Everybody's setup is different. Everybody's opinion is specific to their own individual standards.

I have a 531 and a 640. I have never noticed fuzzy letters when the 640 was connected to a Sharp Aquos 37" HDTV and the 531 was connected to a Sanyo HD projector, PLV-Z4.

Yesterday, after getting the firmware update on the 640, I switched the units but left the audio/video cables attached to the monitors. I use High quality Monster component cables for both.

Now that the 531 is connected to the Aquos and I am noticing a bit of fuzz but I can interpret all the letters and numbers. I didn't notice a problem with the 640 connected to the Sanyo projector.

For what its worth, I think the fuzzy letters is a mutifactorial idiosyncratic problem. Wish I had an answer :confused:

...a mutifactorial idiosyncratic problem...That's good, I'm going to remember that one! :D

Let us know how you like the 640 compared to the x33 series. In particular, since you have used a 533/633 for quite a while, let us know if you notice an improvement in pq on the 640.That's probably not going to happen. The 640 was purchased because my wife was complaining about running out of space on her 533 and missing shows being broadcast simultaneously. (She filled up the 533 in the space of a couple of weeks, and when I asked her if she had been recording that much stuff with the VCR she said "The VCR was holding me back!". ;))

So at any rate since she's using the 640 and recording everything in LP mode to maximize the HDD space I'm probably not going to have an opportunity to compare picture quality. I doubt there's much PQ difference between the units, other than that the newer one doesn't have XP+ mode.

I like the design of the x33 models better, with more buttons directly accessible on the front panel and on the remote. One thing my wife really misses is the remote buttons which control the TV - the power, channel, volume and input buttons were exactly the right ones to put on the DVD recorder's remote.

I do like the fact that the user interface is pretty much identical on the new model (except for timer recordings) - that makes it really easy for my wife to deal with. And god bless Pioneer for providing for 3 different sets of remote control codes!

So at any rate since she's using the 640 and recording everything in LP mode to maximize the HDD space I'm probably not going to have an opportunity to compare picture quality. I doubt there's much PQ difference between the units, other than that the newer one doesn't have XP+ mode.Actually LP mode should be where you notice the biggest difference since the 640 maintains 720x480 whereas the 531/533/633 dropped to 352x480 in LP mode.

I like the design of the x33 models better, with more buttons directly accessible on the front panel and on the remote. One thing my wife really misses is the remote buttons which control the TV - the power, channel, volume and input buttons were exactly the right ones to put on the DVD recorder's remote.I agree. I assume she's using both units or else you would just use the 533's remote on the 640? Why not pick up another 2005 remote to use on the 640?

In one of my earliest posts, near the beginning of this thread, I said that I found the 640's displays hard to read. I don't find the letters fuzzy. To me, they don't have enough contrast with their backgrounds. There are too pastel in the editing menu, and the transparent display overlays have characters that aren't white enough, so they don't stand out enough from the blue background, and the program image behind. I have a 56" DLP, which I sit about 8 - 10 feet away from, so I should see them very clearly. Sometimes I use a side-by-side PIP, to watch one program, and edit the 640's HDD in the other. Then, it becomes pretty hard to read. But that is about the size of a 27"TV, and it shouldn't be hard to read on what was the TV standard for years. So, for me, it is a problem of color/contrast. My set is adjusted with AVIA, so it is not some odd color adjustment.

In one of my earliest posts, near the beginning of this thread, I said that I found the 640's displays hard to read. I don't find the letters fuzzy. To me, they don't have enough contrast with their backgrounds. There are too pastel in the editing menu, and the transparent display overlays have characters that aren't white enough, so they don't stand out enough from the blue background, and the program image behind.

That is very interesting; thanks for the clarification. Your experience is very different from mine. I have very nice contrast at all times on both the 531 and the 640. I find that the 640 letters seem to have crisper outlines than the old 531.

Originally Posted by kjbawc
In one of my earliest posts, near the beginning of this thread, I said that I found the 640's displays hard to read. I don't find the letters fuzzy. To me, they don't have enough contrast with their backgrounds. There are too pastel in the editing menu, and the transparent display overlays have characters that aren't white enough, so they don't stand out enough from the blue background, and the program image behind.

That's my experience too. My Panasonic EH50 shows vivid color contrast on the menus on my display while the Pio 640H looks very pastel and difficult to see. I wish I could find a setting to make those menu colors more vibrant.

Ed

Why not pick up another 2005 remote to use on the 640?Well, it's a little pricier than most remotes, and since my wife often watches the TV by itself she has the TV remote handy anyway. I've offered to switch the 533 remote so that it controls the 640, but she hasn't taken me up on it.

I don't find the letters fuzzy. To me, they don't have enough contrast with their backgrounds. There are too pastel in the editing menu, and the transparent display overlays have characters that aren't white enough, so they don't stand out enough from the blue background, and the program image behind.I agree that the menus have less contrast than on other A/V equipment I've seen, but for us it's not so low that it causes any legibility problems. My wife uses a 27" CRT TV in our living room and has no trouble from about 8' back, and of course my 40" RP CRT downstairs is even easier to see from about the same distance.

A few years ago I got my first set of prescription glasses. I didn't actually know I had a distance vision problem (I went to the optometrist inquiring about reading glasses), but I was prescribed with a fairly weak (0.5/0.75) set of corrective lenses. I was quite surprised at what a difference they made when reading text at longer distances (ie, beyond where you'd normally hold a book).

Everybody's setup is different.)

Correct. That's why I said there were several variables at work here.

Everybody's opinion is specific to their own individual standards.)

Incorrect. My vision is fine, my standards are fine. I'd serve you up a screen shot, if I thought the pic would come out well. I'd be willing to bet that anyone reading this post would have a very similar report, given the opportunity to observe this setup in person.

Wow, that bad eh? What video cabling are you using...composite? Also, how long is the cable, and what type/size of TV? (I'm just curious if there's a pattern here because you're not the first to complain and I'm wondering if I'm just lucky with both of mine...or is it maybe a combination equipment/eyesight thing?)

The set is a 20" circa 1988 Proton monitor. Ever heard of the brand ? (I'm guessing not.) They were made in Taiwan, and back in the day I think they had some patents and won some awards, believe it or not. Anyway, its old technology, and the set has seen better days. I'm thinking that accounts for a lot of the problem, but probably not all of it. The cabling is composite (2 meters, and like most of the cabling in use here, Monster), because composite was the only option with this set.

If and when I pair the 640 with a better set, and preferably at least S-Vid cabling, I'll let you know how much of a difference it makes.

Wow, that bad eh? What video cabling are you using...composite? Also, how long is the cable, and what type/size of TV? (I'm just curious if there's a pattern here because you're not the first to complain and I'm wondering if I'm just lucky with both of mine...or is it maybe a combination equipment/eyesight thing?)

This is exactly why I put very little credence to some of the anecdotal PQ opinions that are posted. Everybody's setup is different. Everybody's opinion is specific to their own individual standards.

It's not an issue of picture quality, but very specifically of the quality of the menu text. I am not imagining this: the 633's menus were easy to read, and the 640's menus are very fuzzy. It's the identical setup, except that (as advised here) I replaced my component cables with an S-video cable after getting the 640 and seeing the degraded quality of the menu text. So "everybody's setup is different" doesn't explain this, because my 633 and 640 setups were the same.

Maybe there's a firmware bug in some of the units, in the code that generates text.

A few years ago I got my first set of prescription glasses. I didn't actually know I had a distance vision problem (I went to the optometrist inquiring about reading glasses), but I was prescribed with a fairly weak (0.5/0.75) set of corrective lenses. I was quite surprised at what a difference they made when reading text at longer distances (ie, beyond where you'd normally hold a book).

Sean, you outted me on that one. :D
I know I am a bit near-sighted, but I can pass a driver's license test, and I have no trouble whatsoever reading any other displays from my many pieces of equipment. So, although I know my eyesight is a factor, I still think it fair to say that the Pio could be better with its displays/menus. I still love it, though. I can use Zoom 1 when editing full screen (instead of in the PIP), and that makes it easy to read.

Sean, you outted me on that one. :DWell I thought I'd mention it because there comes a time when your eyesight isn't as sharp as it used to be, but it happens so slowly that you may not be aware of it. At least that was true in my case...

Now exit, stage right, with my glasses... :cool:

Well I thought I'd mention it because there comes a time when your eyesight isn't as sharp as it used to be,

In my case, my eyes have actually gotten better with age, and I am much less nearsighted than I was 20 years ago. I've heard that one tends to get far sighted with age, so perhaps that has cancelled out some of my near sightedness. Saddly, there is nothing to be done about hearing the higher frequency sounds, as this deteriorates rapidly, after the 20s, especially in men.

Recorded from disney playhouse kids shows on my 531 and the analogue audio output often puts out an echo-like (jittery) abberrant sound like you're talking under water, wonder anybody else has seen this, and any advice on maximizing the audio is welcome, as this show teach music to toddlers. I usually record in LPCM mode
thanks

Recorded from disney playhouse kids shows on my 531 and the analogue audio output often puts out an echo-like (jittery) abberrant sound like you're talking under water, wonder anybody else has seen this, and any advice on maximizing the audio is welcome, as this show teach music to toddlers. I usually record in LPCM mode
thanks

I have had a similar problem with the Space channel's broadcast of Battlestar Galactica. Not sure about jittery, but echo-like describes the sound of the dialogue. I run the audio through a Yamaha receiver and switch the setting to eliminate the digital processing and that seems to help. The option is called Straight processing. Not sure if this applies to your situation. If you are using a receiver you may want to try something similar.

I have had a similar problem with the Space channel's broadcast of Battlestar Galactica. Not sure about jittery, but echo-like describes the sound of the dialogue. I run the audio through a Yamaha receiver and switch the setting to eliminate the digital processing and that seems to help. The option is called Straight processing. Not sure if this applies to your situation. If you are using a receiver you may want to try something similar.

thanks I'm already running analogue in - but the signal is processed into Stereo FX by DSP, maybe some limitation of that encoder for ... analogue ? Can't be... I'm not even using digital yet

thanks I'm already running analogue in - but the signal is processed into Stereo FX by DSP, maybe some limitation of that encoder for ... analogue ? Can't be... I'm not even using digital yet


Further testing : both pure analogue or digital in, analogue out exhibit this problem out of my Arcam AVR300, so I'm now suspecting my HP DVDR discs are not compatible with this machine

Any suggestions of good discs to use with this machine ? I need good compatibility with DVD players as the output discs are playback in panasonic or pioneer dvd players in another room

I'm now suspecting my HP DVDR discs are not compatible with this machine

Any suggestions of good discs to use with this machine ? I need good compatibility with DVD players as the output discs are playback in panasonic or pioneer dvd players in another room

The usual suspects, I imagine: Made in Japan TY discs, or Verbatims. For DL, definitely Verbatims. There were some MIJ Maxells mentioned here, but I haven't tried them yet.

I just purchased a Pioneer DVR 640h-S which had been returned to Walmart by someone who must have purchased it on their web site. Because they no longer sell them, I got it at a very attractive price. So far I am finding that it is better in many ways than the Phillips DVDR 3455H which I returned and the RCAs which I tried before that.

I am just beginning to read the thread, but already see that some of the quirks I am finding, like loss of the typed in title, are subject to a firmware upgrade that apparently has to be done by Pioneer.

Strangely, one show that I just started recording with one touch record, picked up the title from the cable. Anybody know why and how one can get the machine to do this for all shows??

I just read the firmware thread, so I get the jist. My machine is at 6.19 firmware level. I sure hope we can get Pioneer to post or make it available on cd or dvd when requested.

The titling bug comes into play with scheduled recordings.

YMMV

Strangely, one show that I just started recording with one touch record, picked up the title from the cable. Anybody know why and how one can get the machine to do this for all shows??The machine should pick it up if the information is being broadcast by the station. Not all stations carry the info, and the ones that do don't necessarily carry it for all shows. You can tell if a show has the info by using the "Display" button while tuned to the channel and looking for the show title in the information block.

... I just read the firmware thread, so I get the jist. My machine is at 6.19 firmware level. I sure hope we can get Pioneer to post or make it available on cd or dvd when requested.

I called Pioneer Tuesday to enquire if a CD or dowloadable firmware update would be made available. I was told, "No, never."

So... I'll be sending my second 640H to Ohio.

...

I just read the firmware thread, so I get the jist. My machine is at 6.19 firmware level. I sure hope we can get Pioneer to post or make it available on cd or dvd when requested.

Idiot question : how do we check the firmware version on the Pioneer machines :rolleyes: ?

Idiot question : how do we check the firmware version on the Pioneer machines :rolleyes: ?It's not at all an idiot question! See this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9999947&&#post9999947) for the step-by-step instructions. Or, hey, I can cut and paste too...

Theron

For those of us who can't quite read Japanese... :)

Choose this sequence using the remote and menu system:

[Home Menu]
[Initial Setup]
[Audio Out]
[Digital Out]

At this point the "On" choice should be highlighted.

Press the "9" on the remote keypad.

The firmware revision on my (non-updated) unit is 6.19.

Theron

I have four titles on a finalized Video Mode DVD-R. I have re-recorded three of them from new source material onto the HD, intending to replace my homemade DVD, but the fourth is not available. Since you can't high-speed copy from a finalized Video Mode DVD, I did a One-touch copy. I had set Rec Mode to MN 14, same as the material was originally recorded.

Here's my question: on One-Touch Copy, when Rec Mode doesn't match the original Rec Mode, the Pioneer has to re-encode and I assume that means some degradation of picture quality. But what about when they do match? Is the Pioneer smart enough just to copy all the bits without re-encoding.

For what it's worth, my chapter stops were copied. I'm not sure whether I see a difference in PQ or not, so I wonder whether anyone knows if the material was re-encoded under these conditions.

I have four titles on a finalized Video Mode DVD-R. I have re-recorded three of them from new source material onto the HD, intending to replace my homemade DVD, but the fourth is not available. Since you can't high-speed copy from a finalized Video Mode DVD, I did a One-touch copy. I had set Rec Mode to MN 14, same as the material was originally recorded.

Here's my question: on One-Touch Copy, when Rec Mode doesn't match the original Rec Mode, the Pioneer has to re-encode and I assume that means some degradation of picture quality. But what about when they do match? Is the Pioneer smart enough just to copy all the bits without re-encoding.

For what it's worth, my chapter stops were copied. I'm not sure whether I see a difference in PQ or not, so I wonder whether anyone knows if the material was re-encoded under these conditions.Yes, it is re-encoded. Any real-time copy is re-encoded regardless of the original bitrate. In fact, I doubt it can even tell (or care) what the original bitrate was. It just records the source at whatever recording bitrate you set. You will always take a slight hit in pq for real-time copies even if you use a higher bitrate than was used for the original recording. The higher the bitrate (for both) the less you will notice it. If you play back on a large-screen HDTV, you will notice the degradation more than on a smaller 480i TV.

I am having trouble getting the 10 min automatic chapter marks in any recordings, either on the HDD or DVD. I must be missing something. I have the HDD recording in Video Mode and the chapter marking at 10 min, but when I use the skip forward it goes to the end and then to the next stored program. Back skip takes me to the beginning of the program.

Can anyone tell me what causes this problem?

I am having trouble getting the 10 min automatic chapter marks in any recordings, either on the HDD or DVD. I must be missing something. I have the HDD recording in Video Mode and the chapter marking at 10 min, but when I use the skip forward it goes to the end and then to the next stored program. Back skip takes me to the beginning of the program.

Can anyone tell me what causes this problem?The auto-chapter marks are only inserted in real time recordings/copies to a DVD, not for HDD recordings. I guess this is done under the assumption than HDD recordings may be easily edited after recording, including the insertion of chapter marks.

You can insert chapter marks manually after recording fairly quickly every 10 minutes using the CH-Skip button to advance 10 minutes at a time.

*** HELP *** :D
Hi everyone, I'm new here. Bought the 540H at Christmas time. it's been great, love having a HDD. I actually record TV shows now because I can find what I'm looking for! Anyway I am trying to get some of my old home movies from VCR to DVD. I have successfully transferred the tapes to the HDD. Forgive me if this has been discussed, 88 pages is a lot to read. I have read bits and pieces.

Does anyone else find the manual painful? It is sorely missing a thorough Index !!!

OK so here are my questions/problems...

1. I have created 'chapter' points for my recordings. There seems to be no way to give the chapters a name. I can live with that, but after I transfer my recording onto DVD, it doesn't show the chapters as thumbs in the menu. Instead it just shows one thumb which represents the entire recording. Is there a way to have it show the chapters of an individual recording as thumbs in the display menu?

2. I am recording onto DVD-R and a tad confused about the recording types. To get the recording from VCR to HDD I recorded in LP mode (the original recordings in the video-cam were a mixture of SP & LP). When selecting the transfer type from HDD>DVD if I select LP it takes the equiv. time to transfer. eg 1hour recording time takes 1hour to transfer :eek: . But if I select high speed copy, the recording quality is just terrible and very pixelated. I guess I can put up with LP if it means I'll get a better quality recording...but will it be better quality if I do things the long way?

3. I am confused about VR/Video Mode. Is this something significant to my above points in relation to the original HDD recording and/or DVD copying?

4. When editing I notice once edited, on viewing, the frame freezes and jolts before moving on. My old Panasonic never did this and allowed a frame by frame accuracy with a smooth seam - you never noticed the edit point. I have selected editing both modes on the Pana, video/frame but both give the paused result.

I think that's all for now. At least my immediate difficulties.
Cheers,
Michelle

...after I transfer my recording onto DVD, it doesn't show the chapters as thumbs in the menu. Instead it just shows one thumb which represents the entire recording. Is there a way to have it show the chapters of an individual recording as thumbs in the display menu?There's no way to have individual chapters show up on the DVD menu, you will only see one thumbnail and name for each "title" (a "title" can contain several "chapters"). Let's say you've recorded a tape that had four episodes of a TV show on it, so that all four episodes are now recorded on the hard disk drive as one title. What you probably want to do is to use the "Divide" function (the "Divide" edit menu item itself, not the "Divide" suboption in the "chapter edit" menu) to break up the one title into four separate titles. Then you can give each title it's own name and thumbnail when you copy them to a DVD.

...when selecting the transfer type from HDD>DVD if I select LP it takes the equiv. time to transfer. eg 1hour recording time takes 1hour to transfer :eek: . But if I select high speed copy, the recording quality is just terrible and very pixelated.There's something wrong here. Does the recording on the Hard Disk look OK when you play it directly from there? A high-speed copy from the hard drive to the DVD should look identical when played from the DVD, unless there is a problem with the DVD disc. Generally what you want to do is to record from your VCR to the hard drive using a recording speed that will fit the desired amount of material on a DVD (for example, use LP mode if you want to get 4 hours on a DVD), then move the hard drive recording to DVD using the high speed copy mode.

I am confused about VR/Video Mode. Is this something significant to my above points in relation to the original HDD recording and/or DVD copying?There's no difference in VR vs. Video mode with respect to the thumbnails on chapters vs. titles issue, nor with the high-speed copy issue. To keep things simple your best bet is to use "Video" mode and choose "Video Mode Compatible Editing" when you make changes to a recorded title. Video mode DVDs have the greatest compatibility with all other players and recorders. VR mode gives you more options for editing a title already recorded to DVD, but you probably don't need to worry about since with your machine it makes more sense to do your editing on the hard drive copy.

When editing I notice once edited, on viewing, the frame freezes and jolts before moving on.Yes this happens with my Pioneer too. There are some "initial setup" settings for "seamless playback" and some other options which I can't really advise you on since I haven't fiddled with them - the slight pause at edit points never really bothered me that much. When I edit out commercials I try to make the cuts at the black frames where the pause really isn't noticeable. You might try searching in this thread for "pause", I think there's been some discussion of the issue.

It's not at all an idiot question! See this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9999947&&#post9999947) for the step-by-step instructions. Or, hey, I can cut and paste too...

Theron

thanks, this works on my 531, my firmware is 8.37 !

The usual suspects, I imagine: Made in Japan TY discs, or Verbatims. For DL, definitely Verbatims. There were some MIJ Maxells mentioned here, but I haven't tried them yet.

thanks for this comment, but I already wasted more time on 4 Encore DVD+R discs, once again jittery audio and more noticeable video dropout issues noticed

So just now I went and searched out a box of Verbatim 16X DVD-R 10 pack to give it a last shot (after 8 discs with the above problem, 4 HP, 4 Encore). Should this fails, my 531 is up for sale, and I'm going back to my Compro USB tv-box for recording using a HTPC.

So far except for the convenience of able to use a remote control, I may not miss the DVD recorder, as I will end up saving a lot of time (esp. burning the disc after recording), and the recorded video will be readiy retrieved from a networked PC (with Gigabit ethernet) and editing+titling on the PC is a lot faster (I used dscaler and recording quality is top notched, audio not as good as the Pioneer)

If anyone want to save me from becoming an adversary (of DVD recorders), pls help me with some links of how to get best video and audio quality now from this unit , thanx :)

The auto-chapter marks are only inserted in real time recordings/copies to a DVD, not for HDD recordings. I guess this is done under the assumption than HDD recordings may be easily edited after recording, including the insertion of chapter marks.

You can insert chapter marks manually after recording fairly quickly every 10 minutes using the CH-Skip button to advance 10 minutes at a time.


Thanks. That fact does not jump out of the manual at all. Given all of the settings one can make it sure misleads one to think that chapter skips are possible on the hard drive. Most other machines of this type do have 5 or 10 minute skips even on the hard drive. Perhaps this is a firmware problem too.

Yes, it is re-encoded. Any real-time copy is re-encoded regardless of the original bitrate. In fact, I doubt it can even tell (or care) what the original bitrate was. It just records the source at whatever recording bitrate you set.

Bummer! I was hoping that One-Touch Copy would be a special case since it's entirely within the 640 and no outside source is involved. Oh well -- it's always better to know than not to know. Thanks for the response.

Thanks Sean for your informative answers.

I dont think I will bother with the divide function for the home movies. I might experiment at some point but will wait until I have everything organized and safely on DVD backed up from the VHS.

with regard to the high speed copying and the quality. Now these tapes are from years ago. The tapes may not of been the best quality to start with, and then it was dubbed onto VHS tapes and now onto HDD so the quality is pixelated on the HDD copy although not as bad as the DVD copy I dont believe but certainly poor in quality. I will re-try high speed copying with a better quality homemovie and see how I get on. I will also try a better brand of disc. I used Datastream but I also have here TDK. And I will stick with Video mode as you suggest, I'm not sure what mode was used last time, just whatever the default was I guess.

Chosing which copy mode to use VHS>HDD is a bit confusing. The originals were copied in a mixture of SP & LP. One of the VHS has 3+ hours of footage on it in LP. I think I might have to divide some of these down.

I also noticed the seamless playback option in the setup last night and have now turned it on.

Thanks for your help. Disapointing about the chapters and inability to name them and have them listed in the menu individually. Is it just this brand/model like that or are all DVD recorders pretty much the same?

Michelle

Thanks. That fact does not jump out of the manual at all. Given all of the settings one can make it sure misleads one to think that chapter skips are possible on the hard drive. Most other machines of this type do have 5 or 10 minute skips even on the hard drive. Perhaps this is a firmware problem too.

For those of you who have trouble reading the YELLOW color, just highlight it and it can be read then. :rolleyes:

Thanks Sean for your informative answers.

I dont think I will bother with the divide function for the home movies. I might experiment at some point but will wait until I have everything organized and safely on DVD backed up from the VHS.

with regard to the high speed copying and the quality. Now these tapes are from years ago. The tapes may not of been the best quality to start with, and then it was dubbed onto VHS tapes and now onto HDD so the quality is pixelated on the HDD copy although not as bad as the DVD copy I dont believe but certainly poor in quality. I will re-try high speed copying with a better quality homemovie and see how I get on. I will also try a better brand of disc. I used Datastream but I also have here TDK. And I will stick with Video mode as you suggest, I'm not sure what mode was used last time, just whatever the default was I guess.

Chosing which copy mode to use VHS>HDD is a bit confusing. The originals were copied in a mixture of SP & LP. One of the VHS has 3+ hours of footage on it in LP. I think I might have to divide some of these down.

I also noticed the seamless playback option in the setup last night and have now turned it on.

Thanks for your help. Disapointing about the chapters and inability to name them and have them listed in the menu individually. Is it just this brand/model like that or are all DVD recorders pretty much the same?

Michelle

Don't worry about what the original source recording speed was, if you want to minimize further PQ degradation, use XP or an MN very close to it, such as MN30 or above.

For the chapter stops you want thumbnails and titles, during the HDD Copy to DVD, edit and Divide at the chapter stops. You can rejoin, if you make a mistake. You can't undo divides if you directly edit the program on the HDD (using the blue button). I will do this for major stops. The chapter points are still useful to navigate during playback using the Next/Skip button on the remote.

Geordon

I dont think I will bother with the divide function for the home movies. I might experiment at some point but will wait until I have everything organized and safely on DVD backed up from the VHS.Once you've copied the shows to a Video-mode DVD you can't high-speed copy them back to the hard drive for editing - you have to copy them back in real time and this means you'll loose a bit more quality. So the best time to edit or play with the arrangement of your shows is before you burn them to a DVD. This is one of the big reasons why having a hard drive-equipped machine is a real bonus.

Chosing which copy mode to use VHS>HDD is a bit confusing. The originals were copied in a mixture of SP & LP. One of the VHS has 3+ hours of footage on it in LP. I think I might have to divide some of these down.I agree with Geordon that you shouldn't pay overly much attention to the speed at which the VHS recordings were taped. But using the highest speed for everything might be a waste of space, I would recommend taking a few minutes of the same VHS tape and record it at different speeds to the hard drive to see which ones look OK to you. If you can't tell the difference between an XP (1 hour/disc) and a SP (2 hours/disc) recording, there's no reason to use the XP speed. (Same goes for SP vs. LP).

And don't forget that those "MN" modes work well for getting stuff on a disc that might not otherwise fit. For example I often use MN20 to record three 1-hour shows to a single disc, because after taking out the commercials they work out to about 125 to 130 minutes - just a tad too long for the SP mode.

OK thanks again for all that. Dont know much about MN and what it is but I did see it talked about in the manual so I will research that some more to familiarise myself.

I'll look into the divide in the HDD>DVD copy area. From memory doing it here doesn't effect the original recordings or alter them in any way. I'll experiment with a tv show that I'm not worried if I muck up on. :D

I personally choose the better-quality route, so I choose MN23 and have two 43-min episodes (after commercials thrown away).

OK thanks again for all that. Dont know much about MN and what it is but I did see it talked about in the manual so I will research that some more to familiarise myself.

I'll look into the divide in the HDD>DVD copy area. From memory doing it here doesn't effect the original recordings or alter them in any way. I'll experiment with a tv show that I'm not worried if I muck up on. :DI don't know what MN stands for but it just refers to the exact setting of picture quality you wish to record at. It directly correlates to how much space the recording will take up, although there is no exact space per time equation, since it depends on the nature of the pictures being compressed. What that means is that you can only approximate the amout of disc space a particular length program will take, but you can be sure, for example, that MN21 will take more space than MN20.

Page 125 in the user manual is your friend here, that reference will help you determine what recording level to choose, based on what you want to end up doing with the recording. specifically, how long of a recording or recordings do you want to fit onto one DVD. The more you play with it, the more sense it will make.

Also, when you start making edits to the recordings, if you edit the recording itself (from the Disk Navigator menu) you are changing the recording on the HDD. If you edit the recording from the Copy List (from the Copy HDD -> DVD function) then you are not altering the original recording. But one thing to keep in mind, the copy list is not preserved so all the intricate edits will be lost when you copy a different recording at another time.

Also suggest you take a look through the "Hints & Tips for PIO640 users" (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=793772) thread. Much of this is covered, but in a more step by step format.

Theron

New to the board here, and hoping to get pointed in the right direction.

I have burned a few movies on my computer to watch on my Pioneer 640 in my bedroom. Media is Verbatim DVD-R 16X.

When I put movie in Pio 640 the screen rolls continuously, yet the audio is fine.

If I put the same movie in my Xbox 360 or my front room dvd player the movie is perfect.

Is there some setting on the Pio 640 I have to change, or does this machine just not like Verbatim?

New to the board here, and hoping to get pointed in the right direction.

I have burned a few movies on my computer to watch on my Pioneer 640 in my bedroom. Media is Verbatim DVD-R 16X.

When I put movie in Pio 640 the screen rolls continuously, yet the audio is fine.

If I put the same movie in my Xbox 360 or my front room dvd player the movie is perfect.

Is there some setting on the Pio 640 I have to change, or does this machine just not like Verbatim?

No, I probably use that type of media more than any other (both for the computer burner -- a Pioneer 108 -- and for the 640), and intend to continue using them. No setting on the 640 jumps out at me as being a suspect in what you describe, but others here may well suggest something I've overlooked. In the meantime, it might be helpful if you would specify the exact computer hardware and software you are using to make your DVDs, and just how you are going about it. There are a number of possibly relevant variables to be looked at in those details. Are you burning AVIs, WMV, Divx, XVID ?

I have regularly made compliant DVDs on the computer, using Shrink, ImgBurn, Nero Vision Express, or a number of other programs, and they play just fine in the 520, the 640, or various DVD players I have access to. (Although, like many other owners of these DVRs, I try to reserve them for recording, and keep routine playing chores to a minimum, so as to maximize the useful life of the laser.)

Hi everybody,

Couple of quick questions... first, has anyone experienced what happens when your HDD fills up? I came home yesterday to see I had only about 35 minutes left, so of course I quickly deleted some stuff. But I was wondering what happens if it's recording and runs out of room... will it lockup the unit or anything major?

Secondly, a stupid question, :o but does it have an HDMI input or output?

Thanks!

Hi everybody,

but does it have an HDMI input or output?

Thanks!

no it doesn't

Hi everybody,

Couple of quick questions... first, has anyone experienced what happens when your HDD fills up? I came home yesterday to see I had only about 35 minutes left, so of course I quickly deleted some stuff. But I was wondering what happens if it's recording and runs out of room... will it lockup the unit or anything major?

Secondly, a stupid question, :o but does it have an HDMI input or output?

Thanks!

Been there, done that. The Pioneer displays a message to the effect that the Hard drive is full. My last recording was terminated early, whereever it ran out of room. I deleted a few recordings to free up space, but no other harm done that I could detect at the time or since.

Sorry, your best I/O option is S-video.

Thanks guys :)

One other thing, I've noticed recently as it was powering up, in the status window it said "REPAIR" for a couple seconds.

Does anyone know what it was repairing, and is it important?

Thanks a lot.

I've noticed recently as it was powering up, in the status window it said "REPAIR" for a couple seconds. Does anyone know what it was repairing, and is it important?This is just a guess, but it could be that it was doing the equivalent of a "CHKDSK" on the hard drive. Most intelligent file systems have a check bit that is set while the machine is operating. The machine turns the bit off when it powers down gracefully and finishes writing all pending updates to the hard drive. If the machine starts up and sees that the bit is still set, it assumes that the shutdown wasn't "clean" and it goes through the hard drives' file structure to check it for consistency and fix any problems it finds.

This is how file systems on a computer work, and "REPAIR" on the display sounds like it could be similar.

Thanks guys :)

One other thing, I've noticed recently as it was powering up, in the status window it said "REPAIR" for a couple seconds.

Does anyone know what it was repairing, and is it important?

Thanks a lot.

Supposedly, according to a Pioneer service technician, the recorder may encounter bad sector and/or other error(s). Try optimizing the HDD at least once a month to avoid severe fragmentation that may cause errors.

Anyone ever lose the proper time and the automatic clock setting? My machine ended up an hour slow on April 1 or 2. I had to re set to automatic and find the station with the auto time set on the cable ( see below )

Also, I erroneously re did the initial installation to fix the clock, and picked antenna instead of cable by mistake. I canceled that, after it had done a few channels then re did the cable scan. later I noticed all of my timers were missing. Was that caused by my switch from cable to antenna and back??

in my personal experience, changing from cable to antenna (or vice versa) messed up everything.

Supposedly, according to a Pioneer service technician, the recorder may encounter bad sector and/or other error(s). Try optimizing the HDD at least once a month to avoid severe fragmentation that may cause errors.

If memory serves, we discussed that a dozen or so pages ago. :) I believe the consensus was that the Pioneer doesn't really need to be optimized unless there's a specific problem observed. The Pioneer seems to have a very good garbage-collection algorithm.

Would someone with more nowledge than I care to comment?

My own experience: In nearly six months, I've edited out commercials from a couple of hundred programs over those months. Yes, I do eventually erase the entire program, but not before I've recorded others, and usually erased commercials from them too. If anything should cause HDD fragmentation, I think that pattern of usage should, but it hasn't.

I ran a manual optimization a couple of days ago, when I got down to four progams recorded, but I don't really know why I did. :)

from my own experiences (I do a lot of commercial editing -- taking commercials out, I mean) and if I don't do optimization after a month, the HDD sounds very loud during playback. Usually at that point the optimization will take about 1 hour or so. Once the optimization done, the HDD is quiet again.

If anything should cause HDD fragmentation, I think that pattern of usage should, but it hasn't.

I ran a manual optimization a couple of days ago, when I got down to four progams recorded, but I don't really know why I did. :)Undoubtedly with that pattern of usage your HDD will indeed become fragmented, especially if you have a fair number of programs on the HDD, but apparently not yet badly enough to cause a problem.

Assuming the file system is similar to a computer's, (as I've seen no evidence that the Pioneers use the less reliable linked-list file system like the Panasonic and Toshibas do/did,) when you delete files the fragmentation that existed within the file is removed since it all becomes free space. (This is a simplified scenario I know, since an unedited recording can be fragmented, but you get the idea.) So when you get down to the point where you only have 4 programs left on the HDD, you have probably removed most (but not all) of the fragmentation that previously existed.

Eventually though, continuing to use it like that (especially if you keep more programs on the HDD,) it will probably result in a fragmentation warning from the 640. IMHO the best practice is (when possible) to only edit programs immediately before copying to DVD and then deleting so you minimize the fragmentation on the HDD. Alternatively, you could do all your edits in the copy list, but that isn't always possible and apparently heavy editing there can cause problems.

I may be in the minority, but I believe just because most users haven't had problems to date doesn't mean you won't experience problems in the future, especially if you push your luck with a more risky pattern of usage. As David said, the HDD is louder when fragmented which means it is working harder and will probably reduce its life expectancy. Maybe I'm overly pro-active, but when possible I try to only edit right before copying/deleting and I try to optimize once a year...typically in re-run season when there's less on the HDD.

from my own experiences (I do a lot of commercial editing -- taking commercials out, I mean) and if I don't do optimization after a month, the HDD sounds very loud during playback. Usually at that point the optimization will take about 1 hour or so. Once the optimization done, the HDD is quiet again.

This is interesting. My experience seems to be a bit different.

I'm very sensitive to low-level sounds, and when I bought the Pioneer I couldn't hear the HDD at all. Then one day a couple of months ago I noticed I could hear it whirring, and also a 60 Hz hum from the unit. Both sounds were low enough that I wondered if they might have been there all along and I just hadn't noticed them.

Since then I've noticed the whirring is a little louder some times than others. It's definitely not been getting progressively louder as I filled up the HDD. And it didn't get quieter after the optimization.

I may be in the minority, but I believe just because most users haven't had problems to date doesn't mean you won't experience problems in the future, especially if you push your luck with a more risky pattern of usage. As David said, the HDD is louder when fragmented which means it is working harder and will probably reduce its life expectancy. Maybe I'm overly pro-active, but when possible I try to only edit right before copying/deleting and I try to optimize once a year...typically in re-run season when there's less on the HDD.

Hmm -- once a year is less often than I optimized (after six months).

I'm not arguing against optimization, but let's explore the "wear and tear" issue. As far as I can see, there's no difference for the disk itself: the platters spin at the rated speed regardless of whether they're reading and writing contiguous sectors or scattered sectors. It's the motors that drive the heads that get a bit more wear on an unoptimized disk. But I can't see that it matters much. If a progam is in 20 segments, that means 20 extra transitions over the course of an hour and a half or so, and *maybe* 20 extra transitions to record the next program. That seems negligible to me.

On the other hand, during optimization the disk is still spinning at its consant speed, but the heads are moving back and forth like crazy. I haven't got figures, but I'll bet there's more wear on the head motors from one optimization than from a month of ordinary usage, optimized or not. What do you think?

Do the head motors really have a short enough lifetime that these tradeoffs are likely to matter? I don't know. But if they do, I think it's at least plausible that optimizing puts *more* of a strain on them than not optimizing.

All this is just theorizing on our part, so far. I'd love to hear others' opinions, particularly someone who understands specifically how these things work.

Hmm -- once a year is less often than I optimized (after six months).Yes, but as mentioned my usage pattern is more conservative too.
...and *maybe* 20 extra transitions to record the next program. That seems negligible to me.I suspect with the wrong usage pattern the problem is there could be many more than 20 transitions, or worse, transitions that are too close together and can cause problems. I doubt the engineers at Pioneer would have bothered to put the effort into writing an optimization routine for a proprietary file system unless they thought it might be a necessary feature.
...on the other hand, during optimization the disk is still spinning at its consant speed, but the heads are moving back and forth like crazy. I haven't got figures, but I'll bet there's more wear on the head motors from one optimization than from a month of ordinary usage, optimized or not. What do you think?I absolutely agree that optimization especially on a fairly full drive probably does put extra strain on the HDD, but I'm recommending doing it when the drive is close to empty. (Shouldn't be necessary at all if the HDD is has nothing on it, assuming it does use a file system like a pc. I suppose a good diagnostic for that would be to run the optimization on an empty drive?)

I don't know that we have any decent info on what the mini-OS (?) or file system in use may be, or whether deletions / new additions proceed in a Last Out - First In manner. We are simply extrapolating and assuming, based on our experiences with PCs. But the right answers would have major implications for the whole fragmentation issue.

I have run across a couple of apparent bad spots on the HDD of my 520. (This model does not seem to offer any optimization option . . . unless I'm missing something.) I have tried to delete the affected program, and then immediately record another program of the same length, MN setting, etc. So far, the results have been very inconclusive. If I should get a playback glitch of the same sort in about the same place, and can get this result on a repeat basis, that would give a strong indication that these recording storage assumptions are valid.

I suppose a good diagnostic for that would be to run the optimization on an empty drive?)

I don't know much about the technical aspects of these devices. I edit heavily on the main drive, that is to say, not on the copy list. I optimize approx every 6 months. The first time I did it on my 531, I had deleted everything first and optimization took about a minute.

When I recently optimized my 640, I had 7 recordings occupying about 13 G. It took about an hour (not a minute as I originally said before editing :eek: ).

Just my $0.02. :)

Not sure what it means. :confused:

I need to record a 5 hour program on a dvd,but when i choose the rec quaility i only have 1,2,4,6 hours...how can i choose 5 hours instead?

I need to record a 5 hour program on a dvd,but when i choose the rec quaility i only have 1,2,4,6 hours...how can i choose 5 hours instead?
Go to Initial Setup > Recording > Manual Recording and turn it on.

You'll get a "weird-looking" screen with MN modes, just click Enter. (That selects MN21 as default, which is same as SP mode.

Now, as you press the Rec Mode button thru its selections, MN21 should be one of those selections. When you see that, arrow left to get to MN7, which is the 300-minute rec mode.

See manual, pg 125 for all the rec mode numbers and corresponding rec times.

thanks

I have a question. I had a comcast box installed a couple of weeks ago. Everything worked fine except the 640 was only able to pick up one channel. I tried auto prog via ant and cable but it didnt work.
Today I followed the 640 instructions for hooking to a cable box (the first one as I want to be able to watch one show while recording another).
Now everything works fine except I can't get to any ondemand screens. It just sits there with the "please wait" screen.
I tried rebooting and that didn't work so I called Comcast. They tried but it didn't change. They have a guy coming out Wed.
Is there a problem with having the cable go to the 640 first, then to the cable box? I would think that if there was I would have no channels, but my HD channels and premium channels all work great. It's just the ondemand menu.
Initial setup says to.... cable to 640. 640 to cable box, cable box to Tv.

Is there a problem with having the cable go to the 640 first, then to the cable box? I would think that if there was I would have no channels, but my HD channels and premium channels all work great. It's just the ondemand menu.
Initial setup says to.... cable to 640. 640 to cable box, cable box to Tv.How many and what type of outputs do you have on the cable box? Ideally, you should run an s-video cable from the cable box to a line input on the 640 so you can record digital/premium programs. Otherwise, you'll only be able to record analog channels on the 640.

As you can all see, I'm new here, and had a simple question...

Does this Pioneer model allow for upconversion playback? Just got a new HD TV, and was wondering if I could kick up the PQ a notch.

Any info would be appreciated.

Strike

The on-demand service requires that the cable company and the cable box establish 2-way communication. I have a hunch, that if you place the 640 in front of the box...
it is blocking 1/2 of this.

The on-demand service requires that the cable company and the cable box establish 2-way communication. I have a hunch, that if you place the 640 in front of the box...
it is blocking 1/2 of this.

I think that is right. I have a splitter ahead of the cable box, one leg goes to the 640, one to the cable box. It works, but originally I had Comcast in because the "handshake" two way communication was not working. Ended up being a bad splitter. This setup allows recording of analogue stations using the 640 tuner.

To record from the cable box you can use the composite output of the cable box hooked to one of the 640's composite inputs. You will have to switch the cable box to the digital channels you want to record and coordinate the timer on the 640 or use one touch recording.

Thanks for the info.
Wierd about being half blocked. When the cable guy gets here this afternoon i'll ask for the splitter. The analog recording is all I need. Will Comcast try to charge me for this call? Should I cancel and just purchase a splitter on my own?

In all honesty, I think I wasted my money on the DVR, as most of the shows I need to record are ondemand anyway.
If I would have known ahead of time I would have just purchased a DVD recorder and a HD DVD player.
What do you people actually use your DVR for? And wouldn't a DVD recorder do the same thing? I'm still new to this.

P.S. I cancelled the cable guy. I'm gonna run out and get a splitter and see if it fixes the problem.

Ok, I added the splitter.
I get ondemand but it's very choppy. All the HD channels and other channels are crystal clear via cable box.
Some of the analog channels via the 640 are fuzzy, the higher the channel the worse the pic gets.
Are there better splitters? I picked it up at Kmart. I looked at the mHz and it's 5-23000.

Are there better splitters? I picked it up at Kmart. I looked at the mHz and it's 5-23000.

You need to look at going for a CATV quality splitter that offers better insertion loss specs as opposed to the cheap consumer splitters. They are more costly, but are superior-especially if your cable signal is already close to threshold prior to the split. This (http://www.4electronicwarehouse.com/products/monster/ss-rf.html) would be an example.

Ok, I added the splitter.
I get ondemand but it's very choppy. All the HD channels and other channels are crystal clear via cable box.
Some of the analog channels via the 640 are fuzzy, the higher the channel the worse the pic gets.
Are there better splitters? I picked it up at Kmart. I looked at the mHz and it's 5-23000.
Another option to try...in case you got Wal-Mart's cheaper splitted (~#3 ea.), exchange it for their better splitter (~$7 ea.). The better splitter shows the dB loss on each output, whereas the cheaper splitter has no indication. I use the better ones and they seem to work well.

Thanks. I just sent for this one... http://www.thetwistergroup.com/product/TSB-21GFR%20D32099.html it's for digital CATV.

What do you people actually use your DVR for? And wouldn't a DVD recorder do the same thing?

The big difference is that a HDD-DVR lets you edit before you burn a DVD. That's nice when converting VHS to DVD, and it's just about essential when you want to save any broadcast programs. Even the premium channels that don't have commercials tend to start a minute or two after the announced time, so if you make a timed recording direct to DVD you have a minute or two of unwanted "front matter".

I also like being able to edit chapter stops exactly where I want them — well, "exactly" meaning to the nearest half-second. :)

In all honesty, I think I wasted my money on the DVR, as most of the shows I need to record are ondemand anyway.

If you really mean that, I think you'll find people in this forum willing to take it off your hands. Quite a few of us are sweating rumors that Pioneer's getting out of the HDD-DVR business, and the alternatives are bleak.

I wouldn't do it myself, but there are people who have bought one or more spare recorders.

You need to look at going for a CATV quality splitter that offers better insertion loss specs as opposed to the cheap consumer splitters. They are more costly, but are superior-especially if your cable signal is already close to threshold prior to the split. This (http://www.4electronicwarehouse.com/products/monster/ss-rf.html) would be an example.

I recomend the above splitter. I recently bought it because I found that with a cheaper splitter, I would not get some HD digital channels from my SA cable box, ever. I would also lose all channels every Mon am when the cable company was obviously doing some kind of data transfer in the early hours. This required a reboot of the cable box every Monday. This is no longer a problem with the new splitter.

What do you people actually use your DVR for? And wouldn't a DVD recorder do the same thing? I'm still new to this.


A DVR cable box can store HD recordings, while a DVDR (DVD recorder) cannot store HD. The DVR can record digital channels directly, using whatever programming you put in the DVR. A DVDR can only be programmed to record what is available on the analog channels, and what comes in over the line input.

I use my DVR to record HD, and digital channels. If I want to turn any of those recordings into a DVD, I record them on the DVDR, from the DVR. I usually set up something to transfer when I go to bed, or go to work, so it is done later.

I record from the analog channels, mostly TCM movies, some series, and the Daily Show, directly on the DVDR.

Having a DVDR with a HDD makes editing possible, and simple. It also lets me record way more than a disc ever could, without changing a disc.

BTW, Comcast will give you splitters for free, for the asking, at the office. I have had good results with theirs. I have a three-way split, and NO problems with On Demand.

I searched & searched but can't find the post about someone having trouble with "Rolling"?

Well, yesterday I put a DVD into my Pio640 that somebody made that was sent to me and the picture is not viewable cause it ROLLS.

I can play that same DVD in my computer and portable DVD player with no problem at all???? :confused:

I know that pio isn't making dvr's and the 640 is very popular but i just got the 540 and it is the same except fot no usb and 80 gig hdd. still available a decent price from ebay seller. had no problem getting the unit.

Does anyone no of a retailer in Canada that has any of these units for sale..?

Pioneer DVR640H-S

Does anyone no of a retailer in Canada that has any of these units for sale..?The Future Shops I've visited here in Vancouver (downtown, Metrotown, Richmond) have units in stock.

I have one more little nugget for today: Yesterday I tried hooking up an external HDD (an old 2.something Gb hdd in a Bytecc ME-320U2 enclosure) to the usb port of the 640 and it worked. Don't get too excited though, because it just works for playing/copying music and for the photoviewer. I formatted the HDD as FAT16 because I believe that's what it wants and others have reported trouble on FAT32 USB devices.

So, an external HDD works, but it isn't that big a deal since FAT16 has a 4Gb limit. If the 640 is like Win98/ME/DOS it is limited to 2 Gb per partition and we know the 640 can only see 1 partition. We can now buy 2Gb USB flash drives so why bother with a bulky external HDD if the limit is 2Gb? There certainly didn't appear to be any speed advantage...still slow loading large jpgs.
I just read this, after I purchased an external 250gb HDD :eek:.
My plan was to upload my mp3's to the HDD and keep it attached to the 640's usb.
I'm still going to try it and see what happens.
My mp3's are in folders which show up as thumbnails with the album cover's picture. Will the 640 be able to bypass the folders or do I have to upload individual mp3's only? I don't care if the 640 doesn't see the folder, it will just be a lot of work for me to seperate all the mp3's from the folders.
Are you positive that the 640 can't see NTFS?
Right now the HDD is FAT32, 1 partition, showing 232gb. It won't hurt anything if I try it right?

Are you positive that the 640 can't see NTFS?
Right now the HDD is FAT32, 1 partition, showing 232gb. It won't hurt anything if I try it right?I haven't tried NTFS but there is a reference in the manual on page 23 that suggests otherwise:

The Mass Storage Class (MSC) device
should be FAT-compatible. Note that if the
device is partitioned, this recorder may not
recognize it.
The Picture Transfer Protocol (PTP) can be
used to transfer up to about 4000 files.

And on Page 24:

WMA/MP3 file storage devices
• Memory card reader (any type of
memory card)
• USB memory
The Mass Storage Class (MSC) device
should be FAT-compatible. Note that if the
device is partitioned, this recorder may not
recognize it.
Note that although multi-slot card readers
can be used, the recorder will only recognize
the first card inserted. To read another card,
remove all the cards and insert the card to be
read again.

Shouldn't hurt anything to try NTFS, and if that doesn't work you could repartition as FAT32 and see but don't be surprised if you have trouble reading files past 2Gb or maybe 4Gb.

I've used FAT32 for up to 80 Gb HDD with no problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_101
Does anyone no of a retailer in Canada that has any of these units for sale..?


The Future Shops I've visited here in Vancouver (downtown, Metrotown, Richmond) have units in stock.

I guess I should of mentioned in GTA Toronto area.
Thanks for the reply SN.

Max_101

Max_101

The only places that I've seen the Pioneer dvr 640 HS in the East Toronto area has been at Future Shop and 2001 AudioVideo.

I picked up an open box/demo one(without a remote) at a nearby Future Shop a couple of weeks ago but there was no regular stock in any East Toronto Future Shop stores or any East Toronto 2001 AudioVideo stores at that time.

It is no longer on Future Shop's web site, but still is on 2001 AudioVideo's web site so it might still be available somewhere.

Good Luck

John

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_101
Does anyone no of a retailer in Canada that has any of these units for sale..?




I guess I should of mentioned in GTA Toronto area.
Thanks for the reply SN.

Max_101


COSTCO.CA is advertising the 540 which is essentially the same as the 640,
but with an 80 gig HDD.

and as i've posted before, Sam's Club in Canada still have lots of 540.

Further to my posts back a few pages, here's how things have come along.

I transferred the VHS again, it turns out the earlier transfer was accidentally done on a low quality mode, this time I set it to LP and the quality equals the VHS. Problem solved.

Now, I decided I'm going to all this effort, I might as well do it correctly and took the advice to divide at the HDD>DVD function but I'm not sure I am happy with what has happened and thinking I might just go back and burn it as one entire set.

What I'm finding is ... once completed/finalised and ready to play....
When you press play and you play the movie, forward a 'chapter' and then want to rewind. It will only rewind/fwd to the start of the 'chapter' (divided spot) and then automatically plays. It wont rewind/fwd until you hit play. It stops at each divide and will only let you get into the other divide by watching it real time (play) or by chapter select. :confused:

Also when I did an Navigator>edit >delete section to clean it up, it automatically added chapter points to where I had deleted which when I tried to get rid of chapters where I didn't want them, ended up deleting the entire section of the tape. I recopied it and got it back but how do you edit these chapter points or better still not have them there to start with?

The whole chapter thing is starting to send me batty. I have DVD Shrink and a burner in my PC, I'm wondering if I just copy it as one movie, finalise it and then copy it to my PC, open it and can I somehow add chapters and points easier in software on the PC ??? Just a thought? I guess we have been so spoiled with chapters and nice menu's on store professional dvd's it seems so simple - yet it's so difficult when you are making your own :confused:

:) :)

I guess we have been so spoiled with chapters and nice menu's on store professional dvd's it seems so simple - yet it's so difficult when you are making your own :confused:

:) :)

Professionally released dvd's are pressed, rather than burned . . . or so I've been told. It sounds a bit akin to the stamper process by which vinyl LPs were made (?). In any case, these dvd's were made with professional grade authoring software. Such programs are quite expensive, and even if you were granted the use of one for free, the learning curve would likely be prohibitive for consumer use.

So I hook the external HDD (Fat32) to the 640 via USB. I wanted to put my music (about 50gb) onto the external HDD and just leave it attached to the 640. The 640 can only see about 8gb of the 250gb HDD.
I figure that's ok i'll just load them onto the 640's drive and keep them on there. Well copying is horribly slow and there's no option to "copy all". You have to go and copy 1 album at a time, wait about 15 minutes, and then proceed with the next one. Doesn't sound bad until you figure I need to do this for 300 albums. :eek:
Am I missing something?

I have had several DVD players that would not play back dvds I burned with the 640. I am using DVD-R media and have found several brand name discs recommended here to provide me with the same result. My wife's Honda DVD player and a Jeep rental were two of those with the playback problem.

Has anyone else experienced this? If so, what have you done to get a more universally accepted finalized disc?

I love the 640 and have utilized much of the information provided on this thread and the "Hints" thread to make my use more enjoyable.

I have had several DVD players that would not play back dvds I burned with the 640. I am using DVD-R media and have found several brand name discs recommended here to provide me with the same result. My wife's Honda DVD player and a Jeep rental were two of those with the playback problem.I've never encountered any playback problems on other units, although I admit I've never tried playing any of my discs back in an automotive DVD player. Do the discs play OK in other players? Is there any chance that (a) the discs weren't finalized, or (b) it was a poor burn (you can check the error rates using your computer if it's equipped with a drive that reports errors and the software to display them).

Also, since they are DVDs, they won't play back in CD players, even if you only record music.

I have had several DVD players that would not play back dvds I burned with the 640. I am using DVD-R media and have found several brand name discs recommended here to provide me with the same result. My wife's Honda DVD player and a Jeep rental were two of those with the playback problem.

Has anyone else experienced this? If so, what have you done to get a more universally accepted finalized disc?

I love the 640 and have utilized much of the information provided on this thread and the "Hints" thread to make my use more enjoyable.

I played a burned disc successfully on a Chrysler rental minivan. Some players don't like certain disc formats. I used to have a Koss portable player that could not play any burned media. It got returned promptly. Can your Honda DVD player play -R discs from other sources?

I been recording the Tudors and putting 2 episodes on a dvd, i have 5 dvd players total in the house and all of them plays the dvd's fine except a RCA vhs/dvd recorder it plays episode 2 first instead of episode 1. I was wondering why when you finalize a disk you pick a template but it doesnt come up on playback in any machine? when i make one on my pc when you push play the template comes up it dont just start playing whatever's on dvd?

I have played DVDs in five other players without problems (the same discs that give me problems in the Honda.) Each of the units will begin playing and then encounter difficulties after a couple minutes. I have skipped to later parts of the discs and find the problems to get worse. One real cheap Magnavox player and two economy Insignias play the discs without a hiccup. None of these units have any type of heavy use, so it isn't like I am using warn out players.

Does anyone have any experience with +R discs as maybe that is the direction I should try?

I have played DVDs in five other players without problems (the same discs that give me problems in the Honda.) Each of the units will begin playing and then encounter difficulties after a couple minutes.That sounds contradictory, are you saying that the discs give you problems after a couple of minutes in all your players? If so, it your burns are probably pretty marginal. What kind of discs are you using (brand and rated speed)?

I was wondering why when you finalize a disk you pick a template but it doesnt come up on playback in any machine? when i make one on my pc when you push play the template comes up it dont just start playing whatever's on dvd?This is just the way that discs burned by the Pioneers work - the discs they burn tell the DVD player to "play 1st title immediately". Unfortunately the Pioneers don't give you as many options when creating the menu as PCs or some other recorders do. But you can see the menu ("template") you chose if you hit the "menu" button on the remote while the disc is playing.

I have played DVDs in five other players without problems (the same discs that give me problems in the Honda.) Each of the units will begin playing and then encounter difficulties after a couple minutes. I have skipped to later parts of the discs and find the problems to get worse. One real cheap Magnavox player and two economy Insignias play the discs without a hiccup. None of these units have any type of heavy use, so it isn't like I am using warn out players.

Does anyone have any experience with +R discs as maybe that is the direction I should try?

which media brand you've been using so far? Also regarding +R compatibility, my company only faced with compatibility problem when we use +R, -R on the other hand, never a problem. We've duplicated at least 10,000 discs so far (not using the 640, obviously), all -R, all Taiyo Yuden.

I have played DVDs in five other players without problems (the same discs that give me problems in the Honda.) Each of the units will begin playing and then encounter difficulties after a couple minutes. I have skipped to later parts of the discs and find the problems to get worse. One real cheap Magnavox player and two economy Insignias play the discs without a hiccup. None of these units have any type of heavy use, so it isn't like I am using warn out players.

Does anyone have any experience with +R discs as maybe that is the direction I should try?
Ive only been using dvd+r and +rw ive never had any bad disks after recording ive used a 50 pk of nexxtech 8x 4.7gb, and ive used about 20 disks out of a 50pk Magnavox dvd+r 1-16x and havent had any bad disks out of them either. The +rw's are maxell.

As stated in a previous post, I have tried several brand names of DVD-R with similar results. I have been a big reader of this thread and several others here at AVS and used the guidelines and tips in this thread since before I bought the 640, so I feel pretty confident with disc choice and methods to record. Most of my discs have been 16x -R verbatum. But I have tried maxell, fuji, and one other I can't remember (I only log on here at work.) Since I have always been able to play these back in the stand-alone player I use in my main entertainment center, the problem didn't seem too big.

One thing I haven't tried is recording at real time. I will try that tonight and post results as soon as I can get a chance to test it in several players.

I thought this might be a regular thing until I posted here and hear from all of you that it doesn't happen often, if at all.

On a different subject, I recently changed satellite subscription from D****tv (SD only) to E***star and HD. I am hooked big time and can't wait for HD DVDR/HDD! It makes it very hard to spend much time with SD live or DVR viewing.

Hi,
I just stumbled upon this amazing board yesterday. I just decided that I really need to buy a DVD Recorder and after doing tons of research decided I needed this machine. Unfortunately I did not realize the model was discontinued with no new machine to take its place. I seem to have just missed the boat on these things. The reasons I liked this model so much were the HDD, it sounded easy to use, quality, and ability to burn to DL discs. Anybody know anywhere these are still available? I only have found any on Ebay so far. If not, would you recommend any other DVD Recorders such as older Pioneer models, Panasonic, etc. I have a DVR already through Comcast so a hard drive is not necessary but I want it for editing purposes. I dont need 160 GB, 80 gigs would be fine. Any recommendations??
Thanks,
Mark

I dont need 160 GB, 80 gigs would be fine. Any recommendations??Welcome Mark.
Where are you located? You might consider the Pioneer 540 or 543 available in Canada. The 543 is identical to the 640 except with an 80gb HDD, and the 540 has 80gb and no USB. I think you can still find some. Here's a thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=814139) with updated availability info. (Check the last page or so.)

In case anyone has missed it, the 6.20 firmware update to resolve the timer event title name issue is now available for download as found by stevepella in this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10388634&&#post10388634). If you haven't got it, grab it while it's available!

I am in Connecticut and have been searching all over online. I really am looking for another recorder with a hard drive that is capable of burning to dual layer discs. I cannot believe how close I was to having no problem finding just about any burner I wanted. I even considered getting one around Christmas, but never did any research. Is it true that most of the new machines that will be released will not have hard drives on them?

Sure looks that way, but I'm no authority...might be worth taking a chance on ebay if you can't find anything elsewhere.

I managed recently, quite by accident since I didn't realize they were about to disappear, to buy a standard US version of the DVR-640H-S. I got mine in February or so and am very happy with it.

I've been searching for a second one to have as a spare and have discovered, and followed with interest on this thread, the difficulty in laying hands on one.

I've discovered several US web sites that are selling what are variously described as "International Version" "Code Free Versions" or "Multi-System" models of various Pioneer DVR's. Model numbers are DVR-720H, DVR-340H, DVR-530H, DVR-541H, DVR-630H, DVR-640H, DVR-645H, and DVR-745H. The sellers all swear that they are perfectly useable in the US.

Two of the websites that are selling these are (you supply the standard prefix and postfix since the system won't let a newbie post the entire link in the clear) dvdoverseas and samstores (possibly quite distant foreign relations of the folks from Bentonville.) I've bought a few code free dvd players from dvdoverseas and they seem to be reputable people. I don't know anything about the other site.

I am a Comcast digital cable subscriber here in Nashville. All I do with my current Pioneer DVR, or have any wish to do with a second one, is hook it up to my cable box, record standard cable channels, mostly TCM, onto the HDD, edit and then burn DVD's to be played back on my other DVD players. I don't care about HDTV, I don't want to send any of the DVD's out of the US, I don't care about hooking up and recording from external video components, and I wouldn't know a PAL format television from a nuclear reactor.

What I just described is what I now use my DVR-640H-S for. Does anybody here have any experience with any of these other Pioneer DVR models mentioned to know whether they will do using US equipment what I'm trying to do. I've been all over the various Pioneer European and Asian websites tracking down specs and owner's manuals for some of these models - especially the DVR-640H which seems to have a 250GB HDD and the DVR-541H-S which has a 160 GB HDD. From my limited knowledge of what the specs mean, it would seem that they would do what I want. I'm reluctant ot part with my money though until I get a little guidance from some of you folks here who have obviously forgotten more about this than I'll ever know.

So, what's the verdict. Are these International or Multi-System models viable workarounds for the lack of US specific models - or at least are they viable for someone who plans to make the use of them to do the types of things that I'm trying to do??

So, what's the verdict. Are these International or Multi-System models viable workarounds for the lack of US specific models - or at least are they viable for someone who plans to make the use of them to do the types of things that I'm trying to do??

Of the ones you mentioned, I believe that the 645 and the 745 (both quite pricey) are the most recent models and most likely to still be available. From what I have read -- at web sites for dealers selling them, and in threads like this one -- they should function o.k. here, both electrically and in terms of NTSC usage. (But I'm no expert, and have no first-hand knowledge on this.) Some of their features may not be relevant domestically, or relevant to you. That is kind of academic, however, because -- apart from whatever turns up on eBay -- this is what there is left to find. As mentioned in the AVS "Getting Scarce" thread, you also have some option for obtaining one or two Canadian models more or less on a par with the 640, which could be used in the U.S. [The firmware fix that has been discussed here will be applicable to the latter, but probably not to the former.]

The grey area for any of these is warranty. Whether there is one in effect, or how much of one, seems to depend on who you ask. I would not bank on it being there for you, the way that it was when buying a 640 from an authorized dealer, while they were still available. All that said, given a more pressing need &/or much deeper pockets, I would not hesitate to pick up a 645 or a 745 while those are still around, and take my chances. (Perhaps some of you recall what top of the line VCRs sold for, back in the day -- not much less than these int'l. Pioneer models.)

I'm thinking that the 645 / 745 may still have some availability for awhile, because their price and feature set pushes them well outside of the mainstream for such electronics, in this market. I could be wrong, though.

Welcome Mark.
Where are you located? You might consider the Pioneer 540 or 543 available in Canada. The 543 is identical to the 640 except with an 80gb HDD, and the 540 has 80gb and no USB. I think you can still find some. Here's a thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=814139) with updated availability info. (Check the last page or so.)
HI i own a 540 from canada would you know if firmware update will work on the 540 manual says it's the same as 543 except usb ports?

HI i own a 540 from canada would you know if firmware update will work on the 540 manual says it's the same as 543 except usb ports?It's probably the same but I would call Pioneer to see if the 6.20 firmware update applies to the 540 as well.

Have you checked to see what the current firmware update is? Here's instructions. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10103696&&#post10103696) If it's 6.19, then probably it's the same for all 3 models but I would call first to be safe. (Just tell them you heard about the 543/640 firmware v6.20 update and you're wondering if it is the same for your 540. I wouldn't mention that you can get it off the 'net in case they try to spoil the party.)

HI i own a 540 from canada would you know if firmware update will work on the 540 manual says it's the same as 543 except usb ports?I would have thought that the 640 firmware would work fine, but I see now from the page that wabjxo linked to (http://www.pioneerfaq.info/english/dvr630.php?player=DVR-630H&question=replace_hdd) in the firmware/HDD replacement thread that there are separate firmware files for last year's 633 and 533 models. The only difference between those models was the size of the hard drive, so if they required different firmware then it's very possible that the 540 and 640 would too.

HI i own a 540 from canada would you know if firmware update will work on the 540 manual says it's the same as 543 except usb ports?
I'd be really careful on this!

In doing the FW udpate on the 640, I found several items in the FW version data that relates to system controller, tuner and HDD. You can view this info by pressing the Angle button, not the 9, in "Initial Setup > Audio Out > Digital Audio > On > Angle.

They use some "cryptic" acronyms, but here is what they mean, as explained in that wonderful, brilliant website pioneerfaq.info...all these things get updated with a FW update...I plugged in the pre-update version/release #s from my 640 update and Fred99's update:

VERSION: 6.17 <---- Version of the recorder software
SYSCON: RELEASE_259 <--- Revision No. for System-control computer software
TUFLCON: 485.000 * <--- Version No. of the turner microcomputer ["tuner" ?]
DRIVE: 1.04 * <--- Information on the built-in drive
REGION: 1 <--- Region number

If the 540 numbers are close to these before FW update, you MAY be OK with the 640 FW update ???????????

For additional ref., Fred99 noted and compared his version #s before and after he updated his 640:

"VERSION: went from 6.15 to 6.20 (others have reported 6.14 to 6.17 as existing)
SYSCON: Release_259 went to 487
TUFLCON: 485.000 went to 527.000
DRIVE: 1.04 went to 1.07"

P.S. The EU PAL model of the 540 has a FW VERSION of around 1.62, a big diff. from the old/existing US/Canadian 543/640 FW VERSION 6.14 thru 6.20.

Hi everyone,

From the sublime of the FW upgrade back to the prosaic... :D

I did some edits on my 640, deleting a few commercials, and then I thought it would be nice to get rid of some of the chapter marks, so I went into chapter edit and tried to Combine. I got an error message saying, "you cannot combine if you've edited the title and deleted parts of it".

I don't quite understand that. What's the point of combining then? Is it maybe only for removing simple chapter marks which you've put in?

I believe the concept would have worked if you had been using chapter edit to make those deletions. In that mode you are able to combine that which you have separated but I seem to remember a warning about what happens when you divide that the parts cannot be re-joined.

YMMV

I did some edits on my 640, deleting a few commercials, and then I thought it would be nice to get rid of some of the chapter marks, so I went into chapter edit and tried to Combine. I got an error message saying, "you cannot combine if you've edited the title and deleted parts of it".

I don't quite understand that. What's the point of combining then? Is it maybe only for removing simple chapter marks which you've put in?

The message means that when you've snipped out part of a recording, you're left with a permanent chapter mark. So if the broadcaster cuts to commercial and then resumes the scene after commercial, when you remove the commercial you'll have a chapter mark (and a short pause) in the middle of the scene, where the commercial used to be.

But the message is misleading, if you've quoted it verbatim. When you've edited a title and deleted parts of it, it's true that you can't remove the chapter marks at the delete points. But you *can* remove any other chapter marks that you put into that title.

I believe the concept would have worked if you had been using chapter edit to make those deletions. YMMV

My M does indeed V. :) I never "Delete Section" but always remove commercials through chapter edits. I tried this morning to combine the "chapters" on he two sides of one of those removed commercials, and I got the message saying I can't do it.

My M does indeed V. :) I never "Delete Section" but always remove commercials through chapter edits. I tried this morning to combine the "chapters" on he two sides of one of those removed commercials, and I got the message saying I can't do it.
I think you may have lost me here . . . perhaps because I've very seldom tried to combine items. How do you remove commercials (or other material) through chapter edits ? I've always used 'Erase Section', and almost never do anything involving chapters. The exception would have been in vcr to dvd, where the auto-chaptering was On.

I've put as much as a dozen or more cuts in something that only ran a couple minutes. (This was Frame Accurate, my preferred default.) It gets pretty choppy on the HDD, but I think it flows a lot better after the result is taken to dvd. If the goal is to get it more like that, the dvd can be a VR -RW, for copying back to the HDD in this edited form.

the point where you did the edit turned into a chapter mark.

I do most of my editing in "Chapter Edit" mode, I find it quicker and easier. You place markers at the beginning and ending of an edit, delete it, and move to the next edit, without exiting Chapter Edit. I also put in a chapter mark where I want to use the frame for a thumbnail. Then, I move to "Set Thumbnail," hit pause, and jump to my marked frame.

I know you can combine titles into one when editing in the "Copy List," but I'm not sure about chapters. Perhaps a work-around would be to turn chapters into separate titles, then combine them? Maybe it would still leave a chapter mark?


I think you may have lost me here . . . perhaps because I've very seldom tried to combine items. How do you remove commercials (or other material) through chapter edits ? I've always used 'Erase Section', and almost never do anything involving chapters. The exception would have been in vcr to dvd, where the auto-chaptering was On.

I've put as much as a dozen or more cuts in something that only ran a couple minutes. (This was Frame Accurate, my preferred default.) It gets pretty choppy on the HDD, but I think it flows a lot better after the result is taken to dvd. If the goal is to get it more like that, the dvd can be a VR -RW, for copying back to the HDD in this edited form.

I think you may have lost me here . . . perhaps because I've very seldom tried to combine items. How do you remove commercials (or other material) through chapter edits ? I've always used 'Erase Section', and almost never do anything involving chapters.

In Chapter Edit, I mark the begin and end points of the commercial as chapter marks, then hit the down cursor (curved button below the Enter button, in the cluster of four directional navigation buttons) for Erase.

It actually plays the chapter selected for erase, so I can make sure I have the correct one. If I've got the wrong one, I use left or right cursor to get to the right one. Press Enter, confirm with Yes, and it's gone.

Just like with Erase Section, when you erase a chapter it's gone and unrecoverable.

I find it more convenent to do everything in Chapter Edit, rather than a separate menu item to erase chapters (commercials). I wish there was a Set Thumbnail option on the Chapter Edit screen, so I wouldn't have to go back out to Disc Navigator and start the editing all over again. ;)

Just curious. Is all of this editing happening on the "original" recording? If so yes there is no recovery - when you erase it is gone.

I prefer to edit using playlists and then retaining the edited playlists on the HDD. Nothing is really "erased" from the original recording this way. Different machine though. It seems a bit safer to use playlists for editing and also better when considering HDD fragmentation. I know it is possible to use playlists with the 640. Is it not a method of preference?

I used to use erase section on my copylist items on my older 420 but found chapter edit to be ultimately more satisfying. I still find editing easier on the 420 vs. 640 since I can view the original in full screen and press dedicated remote buttons to insert chapter marks and set the thumbnail while watching. I rarely modify the original unless it is to divide and save a small portion of that original for later copying to media like a 5 minute piece from a hour-long show.

YMMV

I do most of my editing in "Chapter Edit" mode, I find it quicker and easier. You place markers at the beginning and ending of an edit, delete it, and move to the next edit, without exiting Chapter Edit. I also put in a chapter mark where I want to use the frame for a thumbnail. Then, I move to "Set Thumbnail," hit pause, and jump to my marked frame.

O.K. (and thanks to BaltimoreStan for the added detail on this), but -- except for the thumbnail part -- how is the end result functionally different from doing it the 'Erase Section' way ? You still have material removed and chapters created. Or does this then open up different rules for being able to combine or re-combine stuff later on ?

I still find editing easier on the 420 vs. 640 since I can view the original in full screen and press dedicated remote buttons to insert chapter marks and set the thumbnail while watching.
And I still prefer most (but not all) of the editing features implementation on the 520, vs. the 640. I had thought that the 420 was a non-HDD model ? Or was I thinking of something earlier, like the 320 ?

O.K. (and thanks to BaltimoreStan for the added detail on this), but -- except for the thumbnail part -- how is the end result functionally different from doing it the 'Erase Section' way ? You still have material removed and chapters created. Or does this then open up different rules for being able to combine or re-combine stuff later on ?

You can do this either in the program list, or copy list, as you can "Delete Section," and the end results are the same. I tried using the "Delete Section" function again last night, for the first time since shortly after the 640 came out. Baltimore Stan pointed out the biggest advantage of editing out sections using "Chapter Edit." You get a thumbnail picture placed at each mark, and the indicator bar is much clearer as to what you are deleting than it is under "Delete Section." You can even let it play into the section you are deleting, while you delete it, so there can be no doubt that you are deleting what you want to delete. I think it is a lot easier to see what is going on, and a lot harder to accidentally delete the wrong thing, while using "Chapter Edit."

And I still prefer most (but not all) of the editing features implementation on the 520, vs. the 640. I had thought that the 420 was a non-HDD model ? Or was I thinking of something earlier, like the 320 ?
IIRC, the 420 was a 520 minus the FireWire port and sold at stores like Costco. Both have hard drives. I own a 520 and I am completely satisfied with it.

I had been noticing something odd that sometimes occurs when making real-time copies from disc to the HDD, and finally figured out part of it.

I have been finding a lot of chapter marks that appear by themselves at seemingly random intervals, and had no idea how they got there. I checked the HDD recording against the DVD original the most recent time this occured. It seems that a chapter mark is automatically inserted whenever there is neither picture nor sound on the disc. That is, a black screen, and silence. I have some DVDs which have these short, about one second, black/silent transitions between sceens, ant they produce these chapter marks consistently during real time recording. Strange! Either black screen, or silence, by itself, will not produce the chapter marks.

The other oddity I have noticed also with chapter marks in real-time recording it that they sometimes appear at three minute intervals, but in some recordings, disc to HDD, they don't appear at all! I thought they were supposed to be inserted automatically every 10 minutes. Maybe that is adjustable, and I set it to 3m when I got the 640, and forgot. But, that still doesn't explain why they don't show up at all, in lots of real-time recordings.

... making real-time copies from disc to the HDD, ... It seems that a chapter mark is automatically inserted whenever there is neither picture nor sound on the disc. That is, a black screen, and silence. ... Strange! Either black screen, or silence, by itself, will not produce the chapter marks.

Can these chapter marks be deleted in the Chapter Edit screen?

The other oddity I have noticed also with chapter marks in real-time recording it that they sometimes appear at three minute intervals, but in some recordings, disc to HDD, they don't appear at all! I thought they were supposed to be inserted automatically every 10 minutes.

I believe that you can set automatic chapter marks to happen in recordings from HDD to DVD, not the ither way round.

On the other hand, I have noticed when making real-time copies from DVD to HDD that the HDD recording had the same chapter marks as the DVD. These were not time-based every-N-minutes marks, but scene markers. Two qualifiers: (a) The DVDs had been burned by this same Pioneer recorder, so maybe it wouldn't recognize chapter marks created by a different recorder model or commercial chapter marks, and (b) I haven't checked whether they're at the identical frame, or merely in the near vicinity of the ones on the DVD.

O.K. (and thanks to BaltimoreStan for the added detail on this), but -- except for the thumbnail part -- how is the end result functionally different from doing it the 'Erase Section' way ? You still have material removed and chapters created. Or does this then open up different rules for being able to combine or re-combine stuff later on ?

AFAIK there is no difference in the final result; it's just a matter of convenience in editing.

What I like is not just "thumbnails" but moving thumbnails -- if you wait before deleting the recorder actually plays the beginning of the chapter you're about to delete. This is really valuable to me, as most of my chapters start on a black frame and a static thumbnail wouldn't help me tell one chapter from the next.

One thing I noticed that impelled me to use Chapter Edit versus Erase Section on the 420 was that Erase Section would not go to the absolute end of the recording. The moment I would select the end mark, it would be a few seconds ahead of the absolute end; I always pad the start/stop times of a recording.

YMMV

So I hook the external HDD (Fat32) to the 640 via USB. I wanted to put my music (about 50gb) onto the external HDD and just leave it attached to the 640. The 640 can only see about 8gb of the 250gb HDD.
I figure that's ok i'll just load them onto the 640's drive and keep them on there. Well copying is horribly slow and there's no option to "copy all". You have to go and copy 1 album at a time, wait about 15 minutes, and then proceed with the next one. Doesn't sound bad until you figure I need to do this for 300 albums. :eek:
Am I missing something?
BUMP
Is there a way to "Copy All" that i'm missing?

Can these chapter marks be deleted in the Chapter Edit screen?



Yes, I did that.

My screen shows 'Until' with a date - generally the last day of the month. Shown in the last column of the Timer Program View. Wondering what that means. I've programmed to record program on ongoing basis but this would indicate only will record to end of month. Have not found explanation in manual.

Thanks
Herve

My screen shows 'Until' with a date - generally the last day of the month. Shown in the last column of the Timer Program View. Wondering what that means. I've programmed to record program on ongoing basis but this would indicate only will record to end of month. Have not found explanation in manual.

Thanks
Herve
That just indicates that, at the recording modes/qualities you selected for each timer rec program, those dates are the last dates that can record if you don't remove something from the HDD...i.e., the HDD will fill up by that date.

As you remove recorded programs after watching or copying, those dates keep advancing as it calculates space available on the HDD.

My screen shows 'Until' with a date - generally the last day of the month. Shown in the last column of the Timer Program View. Wondering what that means. I've programmed to record program on ongoing basis but this would indicate only will record to end of month. Have not found explanation in manual.
I can tell you how it seems to work on the 520 (older model), and assume this may hold true for the 640 as well. I have never set up any standard, automatic recordings for myself. But a relative has a 520, and had me set it to record a couple of shows every Sunday night. The Timed Event screen will show something like "Every Sunday Until XX/YY", with that date being approx. (I don't recall exactly) two months away. However, when I visit them a month or so later, I'll find that the "cutoff" date has automatically increased, and is still pegged at about two months away. It does not seem to expire . . . or, at least it hasn't expired yet. And this is something like a year in and counting.

The only time this becomes a problem is when there are program pre-emptions or repeats, or in the case of the "new" Daylight Savings Time that came in last month. The latter change messed everything up, and went uncorrected until my last visit. (I've provided them with extra-simplified instructions on basic operations, much easier than the manual, but I still wind up doing everything of a setup nature for this DVDR.)

I know there is often some kind of auto-DST option, but you'd have to leave the DVDR pointed at a certain PBS station, which is not really a viable solution.

That just indicates that, at the recording modes/qualities you selected for each timer rec program, those dates are the last dates that can record if you don't remove something from the HDD...i.e., the HDD will fill up by that date.

As you remove recorded programs after watching or copying, those dates keep advancing as it calculates space available on the HDD.

That sounds reasonable, but I have 8 regular recordings programmed -- 5 weekly, and three each week day. I have seen them say they expire in two weeks, even with 50+ hours left on the HDD, and expire in over a month, while having 30 hours on the HDD. In other words, I can't see a real relationship there. On the bright side, the end dates do advance, and the 640 has never refused to record anything.

Is it true that most of the new machines that will be released will not have hard drives on them?

Sorry if I'm asking a stupid question that's been asked many times. I've just started reading this board. (I was reading it originally to find a fix to the "title" issue on the 640H-S and I was so happy to find the firmware update online).

I've had my 640H-S since about November and I love it. Recently, I convinced my parents they need a DVR like this to tape their TV shows, etc. as well as archive things (they don't like the idea of TIVO and a subscription). I noticed it was no longer available but figured Pioneer would just be coming out with an updated version soon so I'd wait. But what's this about new machines not having hard drives on them? Why? I hadn't heard that before. Does that just refer to Pioneer? I know my parents need a hard drive as there's no way they're going to bother recording everything to DVD-Rs. Anyone know of anything currently available or in the works that's similar to the 640H-S that I could get for my parents?

I know this question have been asked before and the answer was "no". However, since time have passed I'm hoping the answer would be different now:

Is there a way for us to upgrade 640's HDD to 500Gb or even just to replace the HDD ourselves just in case the built-in one is broken?

I know this question have been asked before and the answer was "no". However, since time have passed I'm hoping the answer would be different now:

Is there a way for us to upgrade 640's HDD to 500Gb or even just to replace the HDD ourselves just in case the built-in one is broken?
There is a very long thread on VideoHelp.Com
http://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=253998&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=69e5b4ae780f2c152168daff9338db9d
is the beginning of it, and it's long enough that perhaps you should print it out and plan to do a lot of reading, if you are seriously interested in doing this. Although geared to the older 520 model, the basic principles hold true for the 640 -- you just need to collect some different pre-requisites. Hkan's site pioneerfaq.info will be of great value to you in this.

There are many reports that this can be done successfully, and those of us who intend to keep these units going for a long time will likely have to cross this bridge, sooner or later. (Particularly if there are to be no more really good DVDRs like this one coming out.) I prefer to get prepared now.

I've had my 640H-S since about November and I love it. Recently, I convinced my parents they need a DVR like this to tape their TV shows, etc. as well as archive things (they don't like the idea of TIVO and a subscription). I noticed it was no longer available but figured Pioneer would just be coming out with an updated version soon so I'd wait. But what's this about new machines not having hard drives on them? Why? I hadn't heard that before. Does that just refer to Pioneer? I know my parents need a hard drive as there's no way they're going to bother recording everything to DVD-Rs. Anyone know of anything currently available or in the works that's similar to the 640H-S that I could get for my parents?
Check out this thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=814139
No, it's not just Pioneer, and this is sad. Unless you are fortunate enough to be in the European or Japanese markets, and have deep pockets for this type of purchase, the current picture is looking pretty grim. Now, there only seem to be some cheap and crappy off-brand models that you can find at Walmart. (Maybe I'm selling these short, but the reviews haven't been very good. For sure, they don't begin to compare with the Pioneer and Toshiba DVDRs that had been on the market, albeit at much stiffer price points.) Otherwise, this consumer electronics category has been rather a bust in the U.S.

As you will see in that thread, there are a couple of pricey Pioneer "international" models still available here. It may come down to that, or rolling the dice on Ebay.

There is a very long thread on VideoHelp.Com
http://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=253998&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=69e5b4ae780f2c152168daff9338db9d
is the beginning of it, and it's long enough that perhaps you should print it out and plan to do a lot of reading, if you are seriously interested in doing this. Although geared to the older 520 model, the basic principles hold true for the 640 -- you just need to collect some different pre-requisites. Hkan's site pioneerfaq.info will be of great value to you in this.

There are many reports that this can be done successfully, and those of us who intend to keep these units going for a long time will likely have to cross this bridge, sooner or later. (Particularly if there are to be no more really good DVDRs like this one coming out.) I prefer to get prepared now.

But getting the remote is not easy nor cheap, getting the service manual and service DVD is not cheap (at least in Canada). I'll end up spending $200 before buying a replacement HDD. Maybe I should just hang on to my unit and should the HDD ever breaks I might as well pay (say) $300 or $400 to Pioneer and the work wil at least be guaranteed for 90 days.

Just curious. Is all of this editing happening on the "original" recording? If so yes there is no recovery - when you erase it is gone.

I prefer to edit using playlists and then retaining the edited playlists on the HDD. Nothing is really "erased" from the original recording this way. Different machine though. It seems a bit safer to use playlists for editing and also better when considering HDD fragmentation. I know it is possible to use playlists with the 640. Is it not a method of preference?

Perhaps it does help, in regard to fragmentation. As noted before, I have seen instances where the COPY LIST editing got overwhelmed by too many edits / titles, and generated a COPY ERR condition. This did not harm the originals on the HDD, but did make a coaster. Note that there is nothing preventing you from having multiple versions of something. I just had a VR -RW disc in the DVDR, and in one relatively brief session transferred to it the following: an Original, minimally edited clip; (then) a moderately edited version of the clip; and then a heavily edited version of the clip. All of these are saved for now on the -RW disc, with slight name variations. (The 640 gives you the option of using DVD-RAM also, but I think these may be slower ?) I then immediately erased whatever was left of the original source on the HDD, without having recorded anything new in the interim. I'm hoping this will minimize fragmentation, but having no understanding of how the DVDR's file system works, cannot really be sure. Because it is in VR format, I can quickly and easily do a high speed copy of any or all three versions back to the HDD, where I hope they will now be contiguous files. It may not matter, though, because what I want to do next with this material will be on the computer. Once on the computer, it won't be any problem to verify that the files are unfragmented, or to make them so. The only issue -- until I can find some software that handles VR format material fairly effortlessly -- will be that I have to transfer it to Video Mode first.

But getting the remote is not easy nor cheap, getting the service manual and service DVD is not cheap (at least in Canada). I'll end up spending $200 before buying a replacement HDD. Maybe I should just hang on to my unit and should the HDD ever breaks I might as well pay (say) $300 or $400 to Pioneer and the work wil at least be guaranteed for 90 days.
I believe I spent a bit less than $200. for everything, including the HDD (a 300G. Seagate, bought at a good sale price). {Do you have Fry's in Canada ?} This happened to be for my 520, which is two years older than the 640 and was much more heavily used, therefore apt to need this procedure much sooner. Now I intend to get ready in regard to the 640.

The other thing is that I've heard you may be getting refurb parts when Pioneer does it . . . and I prefer to steer well clear of anything that was refurbished.

I believe I spent a bit less than $200. for everything, including the HDD (a 300G. Seagate, bought at a good sale price). {Do you have Fry's in Canada ?} This happened to be for my 520, which is two years older than the 640 and was much more heavily used, therefore apt to need this procedure much sooner. Now I intend to get ready in regard to the 640.

The other thing is that I've heard you may be getting refurb parts when Pioneer does it . . . and I prefer to steer well clear of anything that was refurbished.

The ID disc and service manual is about $100 after taxes, the service remote on eBay is about another $100 after shipping and import taxes. 500 Gb HDD is another $200 after taxes.

I wish there is an outlet somewhere in Toronto that will do this for me while I wait.

PS: there's no Fry's in Canada.

The ID disc and service manual is about $100 after taxes,
You should be able to get these from Hkan for postage / cost of materials (a donation recommended, also), but it would still be a fraction of the cost you mentioned.

the service remote on eBay is about another $100 after shipping and import taxes.
Not for sale to the public in the U.S., period. I paid about $55. for a lightly used Palm Pilot (including a whole lot of accessories and extras) on Ebay, plus shipping. This should be able to impersonate the Pioneer Service Remote, after being fed the right software. There are others besides the Palm models that are said to be able to do this. But, at any given time, there are at least 4 pages worth of Ebay listings for the Palm models, and some of them go pretty cheap, particularly the older B & W models.

500 Gb HDD is another $200 after taxes.
Hmmm . . . that 300G Seagate cost me $89. on sale. Still just under $100., after adding in the tax.

PS: there's no Fry's in Canada.
I'm a bit surprised to hear that, but it's not good. Some here despise them, just as some despise Walmart, but their prices definitely help to keep things competitive.

You should be able to get these from Hkan for postage / cost of materials (a donation recommended, also), but it would still be a fraction of the cost you mentioned.


Just send me a PM! :rolleyes:

Hello, I am thinking of buying the Pioneer DVR 540 H, it will be my first DVD recorder.
My question is for the people here that has bought a Pioneer DVR 540/640 H, would you buy one again ? What do you like and think about it.

Thanks, Rodney.

ps: Can it play music cd's, how do they sound ?

Hello, I am thinking of buying the Pioneer DVR 540 H, it will be my first DVD recorder.
My question is for the people here that has bought a Pioneer DVR 540/640 H, would you buy one again ? What do you like and think about it.

Thanks, Rodney.

ps: Can it play music cd's, how do they sound ?

Welcome, Rodney.

I know this thread is a lot to get through, but I recommend reading it anyway. The HDD DVRs are complex products, the manual is less than perfect, and in this thread we fill in the gaps. You might also want to check out this thread of hints and tips:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=793772
We want to keep that one short, so please ask any questions here and not in the hints and tips thread.

You'll find that the answer to your first and second questions is a hearty Yes. As to how the CDs sound, that depends on your speakers much more than on the recorder.

I hope this is appropriate to post. If not please let me know. I was searching today and found a company called TrioComputers.com and their web site states that they have 2 Pioneer 640 H-S units in stock. The cost is $461.08. If this is true, perhaps this is of interest to those who have been looking for this discontinued unit.

I just got a Costco Canada summer savings coupon book and it has a $60 off coupon for an upconverting (1080p) Pio 160G DVR/HDD (model # not listed) that is valid July 16-22. The picture on the coupon is different from the 640 series although the remote looks the same. Not sure how valid this is but I will use it as a glimmer of hope that new models will be available this summer.

Hello,

I bought my first DVD recorder on Thursday the 11th of May 2007, a Pioneer DVR-540H-s, 160GB, what a brilliant machine.

So easy to set up, so easy to use. It looks great and is so quite.

The on screen controls are the best I've seen, so easy to read and understand.

Everything I have recorded so far, sports, music videos, look incredible, I can not tell the difference from live tv or recorded.

Even recording from old VHS is easy and does not degrade the original quality.

My Neil Young Live at Massey Hall 1971 DVD sounds awesome.

I am up to page 30 so far of these 92 excellent pages,

Thank You Everyone for your tips and hints.

Rodney.

ps: I paid only $436au plus $64au for a 5 year warranty at JB HiFi

My DVR-540H-s is Version: 7.30

:D

My DVR-540H-s is Version: 7.30

:D

Does this version have a problem with the Timer Recording Names being transferred to the Disc Navigator?

I purchased a pioneer 640-h on e-bay from a company called Multi-system about a month ago. The description in the ad made it sound like a 645 minus the hdmi plug. There are a few differences from the n.a. models. They are as follows, it has both pal & ntsc tuners, has the old style remote minus chapter & navi mark buttons, although these funtions work if i use the remote from my dvr-65h, it has a 250 gig. hdd, only 24 hr clock,ie. 10 o'clock is 2200 hrs, and a few other little differences which escape me for now. the software is 9.something and it transfers titles from timer recorderings but not from the vbi info. Bill

It's taken several months but the wife finally has adjusted to HDD programs versus VCR programs to the point where she wants her own Pio in the bedroom - but that's a separate discussion. :)

Here's my dilemma - during the week I record 'hubby' programs (Heroes, Lost, CSI, etc) and 'wifey' programs (Oprah, Dr Phil, Grey's Anatomy, etc) which, of course, are stored on the HDD in recorded sequential order. Now I want to view them in non-contiguous order so I follow the instructions on page 61-62 for program play to play (for example) HDD selections 1-3-5-7 but at the end of each selection it wants to go to the next contiguous recording so it still wants to play 1-2-3-4-5-6-7.

Am I missing something or does this 'feature' not work like I expect it to?

All suggestions appreciated ......Rob

It's taken several months but the wife finally has adjusted to HDD programs versus VCR programs to the point where she wants her own Pio in the bedroom - but that's a separate discussion. :)

Here's my dilemma - during the week I record 'hubby' programs (Heroes, Lost, CSI, etc) and 'wifey' programs (Oprah, Dr Phil, Grey's Anatomy, etc) which, of course, are stored on the HDD in recorded sequential order. Now I want to view them in non-contiguous order so I follow the instructions on page 61-62 for program play to play (for example) HDD selections 1-3-5-7 but at the end of each selection it wants to go to the next contiguous recording so it still wants to play 1-2-3-4-5-6-7.

Am I missing something or does this 'feature' not work like I expect it to?

All suggestions appreciated ......Rob
This is a perfect use for "Genres."

In the Timer Rec menu, assign a Genre to all of your programs. You can use one of the 10 Genres...one for all of your programs, one for all of hers. Don't assign a Genre to things you both like or decide to record on the spur?

In Disc Nav, you can then click the "Genre" button on the left where all of your recorded programs appear trogether and, separately, all of hers. Switch to the list you want and select.

You can rename each of the Genre icons you choose, and that name will show up in the Disc Nav menu (at the bottom) when you highlight a show...if you have the updated FW. If you don't, only the icon shows in Disc Nav so why bother? The icon naming is really not necessary either way.

Quick question... if I finalize a DVD -RW, can I later go back and unfinalize it, and then delete everything from the disc and re-record on it?

Thanks. :)

Yes.

Quick question... if I finalize a DVD -RW, can I later go back and unfinalize it, and then delete everything from the disc and re-record on it?
Yes - for a DVD-RW (or +RW), you can "Initialize" the disk at any time - that resets it back to the equivalent of a blank, fresh disk.

When you finalize a -RW or +RW disk, you can't ADD anything else to the existing content, but you can always re-initialize it back to empty and start over again.

Note that "Initialize" is a single operation, you don't need separate steps to "unfinalize" and "delete" the existing content.

When you finalize a -RW or +RW disk, you can't ADD anything else to the existing content, but you can always re-initialize it back to empty and start over again.
Finalizing a +RW disc only creates the title menu (otherwise, finalizing is not required).

Once finalized, "you can record [add] and edit even after finalizing, although the title menu will disappear if you do so." Pg 50 of manual.