Thanks Sean... So no playlist ? The reason I ask is because the Tosh manual warns against not creating a playlist, since "erasing segments results in HDD fragmentation".
Is this an issue with the Pio ?

I also use the method Sean described and after a little familiarization, you can get quite skilled at it.

Toshiba is simply covering themselves (as well as Panasonic) because they chose not to address inevitable HDD fragmentation in their chosen OS. The Pioneer offers a HDD optimization feature that is a defrag utility and also seems to have a much more robust OS. I've never had a problem with any Pioneer HDD-equipped unit I've owned.

As a general rule, users should not keep edited programs lingering on the HDD after they have been burned to disc. With a little user common sense, there should be no need to "work around" a HDD using playlists as a substitute for segment erasure.

Thanks Sean... So no playlist ? The reason I ask is because the Tosh manual warns against not creating a playlist, since "erasing segments results in HDD fragmentation".

Is this an issue with the Pio ?

It works like a playlist. The "erase" actually doesn't erase anything, just mark the points where any copy or playback will skip . There is no fragmentation as far as I know.

Sergio

I have used the Pioneer 531 for a year (700+) DVDs edited/burned on it. Almost never use a playlist (maybe two times total). As others say, editing is very easy on the Pioneers. I've "optimized" the hard disk maybe 3 times in that period. Only once did the Pioneer recommend HDD optimization. Fragmentation should not be a problem on the Pioneers due to their disk management techiques. I also think it helps, if you keep the hdd less than half full.

I tried a new Toshiba sx35 HDD recorder for a few days. DID have some fragmentation problems on it, after editing without a playlist. My take is that Toshiba's HDD handling is not as robust as the Pioneers.

The Toshibas do have a lot of nice features including best of breed DVD menu creation opions among current DVD recorders.

Your Milage May Vary..:rolleyes:

The "erase" actually doesn't erase anything, just mark the points where any copy or playback will skip . There is no fragmentation as far as I know.
Sergio

This is incorrect. Erased sections are unrecoverable and the overall file size is reduced accordingly. It was actual erasure that caused the fragmentation problems that plagued some Panasonic and Toshiba users.

It might be helpful to point out that with the 640, when you delete commercials from a single title, you don't need a "Copy list," as Pioneer terms it, because you copy the whole (remaining) title. When you break up one title into many titles, so that you can label and thumbnail the separate titles in the disc's menu, then you make a copy list. It is quicker to make the copy list before you enter title names, and set thumbnails.

Thanks Sean... So no playlist ? The reason I ask is because the Tosh manual warns against not creating a playlist, since "erasing segments results in HDD fragmentation". Is this an issue with the Pio ?Nope, I rarely use the playlist unless I happen to notice that I missed setting a thumbnail as I'm about to copy a title to DVD. Yes, this will cause more hard drive fragmentation, but I trust the Pioneer to handle it. My hard drive is mostly empty (I generally only use about 20-25% of the disk), which tends to lessen the issue. I've never optimized my hard drive and never been prompted to by the Pioneer.

The "erase" actually doesn't erase anything, just mark the points where any copy or playback will skip . There is no fragmentation as far as I know.On the Pioneer 533 and 633, doing an "erase section" on a title on the HDD does in fact physically restructure the title so that the information is removed. There is no way to recover the information, and the deleted section becomes free space available for new recordings. I have a high degree of confidence in this because the "space available" on the HDD goes up by an amount that corresponds to what was deleted.

According to the manual, there is "one level of reversability," so you can retrieve the last thing you deleted, but nothing before that. I haven't tried it.

It is quicker to make the copy list before you enter title names, and set thumbnails.I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here. The once or twice I did editing (removing sections, setting thumbnails or a title, etc.) using a copy list it used the same screens and basically worked exactly the same as directly editing a title on the HDD. The only difference was that the "changes" made via the copy list didn't change the title on the HDD, they only took effect for the copy burned to the DVD. So I'm wondering why you'd say one was quicker than the other?

According to the manual, there is "one level of reversability," so you can retrieve the last thing you deleted, but nothing before that. I haven't tried it.If I recall the manual correctly, you loose that "1 level undo" ability if you exit from the edit menu.

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here. The once or twice I did editing (removing sections, setting thumbnails or a title, etc.) using a copy list it used the same screens and basically worked exactly the same as directly editing a title on the HDD. The only difference was that the "changes" made via the copy list didn't change the title on the HDD, they only took effect for the copy burned to the DVD. So I'm wondering why you'd say one was quicker than the other?

Well, the first time I did it, I was entering titles and picking thumbnails before I selected a copy list, and every time I finished entering a title, or setting a thumbnail, I was back to square one in the menus, and had to pick the next title, function, etc. But, when I picked a copy list first, it automatically moved me to the next title, and the right spot in the menu. Much faster, less clicks.

If I recall the manual correctly, you loose that "1 level undo" ability if you exit from the edit menu.

Yes, and if you edit a copy list later, the manual says it will erase the list association, so you will have to select the individual titles again.

...when I picked a copy list first, it automatically moved me to the next title, and the right spot in the menu. Much faster, less clicks.Ah, I get it. I don't think I realized it did that, thanks.

There is much that is not mentioned in the manual, and only experimentation can provide some of the answers. It was experimentation that taught me that you have to re-enter the disc title every time you make a new copy from the list.
Glad to be of help.

Please keep us advised of your dual layer experiences, many of us older Pioneer users are interested in this feature.
What brand of DVD+R DL did you try? Verbatium?
I assume your orginal hdd recording was in Video compatability mode.


Last night I tested the DL recording for the first time. I transferred a program to the HDD with a running time of 2 hours and 30 minutes. Knowing that editing commercials would bring the final product in at about 120 minutes, the transfer to HDD was done at MN 30. I edited out the commercials using the "erase section" method and ended up with a running time of 1:58.

I used a Sony 2.4X +R DL disc (actually Verbatim OEM) and did a high speed copy. All went well and I proceeded to title and finalize the disc (which took 11 minutes). On high speed copying, the Pioneer created a single title (as opposed to a separate title for each layer).

Playback was tested using various DVD players including Panasonic's RP-91, RP-82, the ever-cranky media unfriendly RV-32, an old JVC player from 2001, and a Wal-Mart $29 Diamondvision junker. In all cases the disc played without any problems (recognition, skips, freezes etc.). I was also amazed at how smooth the layer change was on each of the players.

At this point, it looks like the Pioneer 640 is living up to expectations and certainly has the current edge for anyone looking for a -R or +R DL recorder that records continuously and produces compatible finished discs.

I'm going to continue testing using Memorex and Fuji DL media and see how it fares.

I used a Sony 2.4X +R DL disc (actually Verbatim OEM) and did a high speed copy. All went well and I proceeded to title and finalize the disc (which took 11 minutes). On high speed copying, the Pioneer created a single title (as opposed to a separate title for each layer).

Thanks for the info. Good news for me. :)

How long did the DVD+R DL high speed copy take?

Some of the Verbatium DVD+R DL can be pushed to 6-8X.

How long did the DVD+R DL high speed copy take?
Some of the Verbatium DVD+R DL can be pushed to 6-8X.

Although I didn't time it exactly, it was approx. 25 minutes. The Pioneer 640 firmware will support DL media up to 6X, so a future test will be to use a Verbatim disc rated up to 6X and clock the high-speed copying time.

Hi Pioneer Fans:

I came across this forum site a few weeks ago, and your positive comments on the new Pioneer DVD 640 recorder prompted me to buy one over the weekend. Of course, now I've got the most basic question in the world, but I couldn't find a direct answer in these nine pages of postings....

I have connected my Dish Network satellite receiver to the DVD recorder, but am unable to assign any of my satellite channels to the Timer function of the recorder. The quick answer I received from Pioneer today was that I must leave my satellite receiver tuned to the channel I want to record, and then the DVD recorder will recognize this channel if I have it set to Line 1. Does this sound correct? This would mean that I could not record two different satellite channels during the middle of the night, unless I woke up and manually changed the satellite receiver channel. From what I gather, I would need to purchase a satellite DVR receiver to tape directly from satellite, and then transfer these recordings to the DVD recorder for burning. Are there any other workarounds?

Thanks!

CCV2003

Yeah that does sound right. DVD Recorders (currently) cannot tune digital channels (such as Satellite TV), only analog channels, so you need the STB to receive them.

The only other way it might work with with the IR-Blaster, the 633 had one, that can connect to the recorder, and point at the STB, and act like a remote control, changing the channel as appropriate. Don't know if this is supported by the 640 though. And I've never done it that way myself, I have the (terrestrial) cable going straight to the 633, if I want to record a digital channel I take it from the STB A/V output.

Does the Dish Network sat receiver not have a timer function to deal with unattended channel changes?

Does the Dish Network sat receiver not have a timer function to deal with unattended channel changes?

Ah Ha!......you're right! I just checked the satellite receiver menu, and it DOES have a timer function! There are 2 "Timer Types"....."VCR" and "Manual/Ext" (there is actually a 3rd Type called "Reminder", but I don't think this one will do the trick). I remember reading something on a forum site earlier today about choosing either the "VCR" type or the "Manual/Ext" type, but I don't remember the details. I'll search the site now to see if I can find it.....unless someone knows off the top of their head and is willing to give a quick answer.

With this Timer function, I'm guessing I will be able to set the satellite receiver timer to coincide with the channels/times I want to record to the HDD on the DVD recorder, right?


Thanks again for your quick reply!

Ah Ha!......you're right! I just checked the satellite receiver menu, and it DOES have a timer function! There are 2 "Timer Types"....."VCR" and "Manual/Ext"

If your satellite STB has a IR-blaster attachment, it should be able to control recording on the Pioneer 640 "as" a Pioneer VCR.

Works well for my Pioneer 531 using TWC's STB. I have to leave the 531 powered on, but I don't have to program it for manual record.

Ah Ha!......you're right! I just checked the satellite receiver menu, and it DOES have a timer function! There are 2 "Timer Types"....."VCR" and "Manual/Ext" (there is actually a 3rd Type called "Reminder", but I don't think this one will do the trick). I remember reading something on a forum site earlier today about choosing either the "VCR" type or the "Manual/Ext" type, but I don't remember the details. I'll search the site now to see if I can find it.....unless someone knows off the top of their head and is willing to give a quick answer.

With this Timer function, I'm guessing I will be able to set the satellite receiver timer to coincide with the channels/times I want to record to the HDD on the DVD recorder, right?


Thanks again for your quick reply!


Just plug the Satellite receiver into line 1 inputs on the 640. Turn the 640 off. Program the Sat. receiver for the two programs you want, and turn it off. The Sat. receiver will come on, and change channels for your programs. The 640 will turn on when it senses the signal from the Sat. receiver, and turn off when the signal ends. But, there is a little lag in the sensor/startup, so, If your Sat. receiver allows it, set it to start a couple of minutes before the program starts.

I finally tried the "Disc Backup" copy mode. It is the only way to make a high-speed copy from disc to HDD. It does not allow editing, nor can you view the HDD copy. It will not show up on the "Disc Navigator." It does not allow recording more on a half-full disc, at least not with the -R discs I was using.

I did make multiple copies of two different discs, and they looked great. Each copy was of an hour's material in SP Video Mode, and took 8 minutes from begin copy, to finish. One thing not spelled out in the manual -- you can only store one disc's info at a time, in the HDD, with the "Disc Backup" function. And, you cannot gain access to the "erase" function with a new recorded disc in the drawer. So, if you want to copy a second disc, delete the old info from the HDD, before you put in another disc to backup.





Last night I tested the DL recording for the first time. I transferred a program to the HDD with a running time of 2 hours and 30 minutes. Knowing that editing commercials would bring the final product in at about 120 minutes, the transfer to HDD was done at MN 30. I edited out the commercials using the "erase section" method and ended up with a running time of 1:58.

I used a Sony 2.4X +R DL disc (actually Verbatim OEM) and did a high speed copy. All went well and I proceeded to title and finalize the disc (which took 11 minutes). On high speed copying, the Pioneer created a single title (as opposed to a separate title for each layer).

Playback was tested using various DVD players including Panasonic's RP-91, RP-82, the ever-cranky media unfriendly RV-32, an old JVC player from 2001, and a Wal-Mart $29 Diamondvision junker. In all cases the disc played without any problems (recognition, skips, freezes etc.). I was also amazed at how smooth the layer change was on each of the players.

At this point, it looks like the Pioneer 640 is living up to expectations and certainly has the current edge for anyone looking for a -R or +R DL recorder that records continuously and produces compatible finished discs.

I'm going to continue testing using Memorex and Fuji DL media and see how it fares.


Dubbing a 155 minute SP Video Mode program to a 6x +R DL disc worked fine for me, and plays on my other two DVD players, including an old Philips that rejects a lot of burnt discs.

Update on Copy Protection:

A lot of people have been talking about connecting a DVD Player to the Pioneer 640 to copy their DVD that way (instead of using their computer). Well there has been a lot of conflict on whether or not a certain device (similar to the Sima CT-2) will work with DVD-to-DVD as it is known to work with VHS transfers to DVD.

This is the device I am referring to:

http://direct.stores.yahoo.net/dvdvidstab.html

Well I finally tested it. I placed a store bought, commercially released DVD film in the tray and tried to copy it to the HDD (where you have to start playing it, and then press the "One Touch Copy" button and it starts copying from the beginning). I tried that and it gave me a warning about the DVD being copy protected.

Then I wired my DVD Player (through Line 2, in the front) to the Pioneer and also through the device I gave a link for above. Put the same DVD in, that gave a copy protection error when I put it in the Pioneer 640 directly, and it copied to the HDD just fine.

Now I can make high speed DVD-/+R copies whenever I want to.

So the controversy is over, the RX-2 Video Clarifier DOES work for DVD-to-DVD dubbing.

Now I can make high speed DVD-/+R copies whenever I want to.Just to be clear, I assume that what you mean by this is that now that you've made a recording of the original DVD in real time (ie, a 2 hour DVD took 2 hours to record) and you have the title on your hard drive, you can burn the title to as many new blank DVD discs as you want at high speed.

Wow, that's a nifty find, bobkart... thanks for putting the link here. Did you notice any abnormal color flashing, or brightness issues? Or was it rock solid-stable for the duration of the entire movie?

Just to be clear, I assume that what you mean by this is that now that you've made a recording of the original DVD in real time (ie, a 2 hour DVD took 2 hours to record) and you have the title on your hard drive, you can burn the title to as many new blank DVD discs as you want at high speed.

That's exactly correct, now...that I have the movie on my HDD...I can High Speed it from there. Getting the film to my HDD...just to confirm...WAS done in real time.

Wow, that's a nifty find, bobkart... thanks for putting the link here. Did you notice any abnormal color flashing, or brightness issues? Or was it rock solid-stable for the duration of the entire movie?You must be referring to suplex's post. I don't think I've posted any nifty finds in this Topic!

suplex, if you din't already try it & just for kicks try using the Front Inputs without the RX-2 because maybe the Front Inputs aren't Copy Protected & that would be something :D

Also I hope you tried to copy more than just one movie with it because with my RX-"1" it will let me copy some dvds but not everyone but it has always let me copy any Video Tape that I ever tried it with.

My daughter has a Sima C-2 which she has never had any problems with & has copied every dvd she has ever tried it on.

Wow, that's a nifty find, suplex... thanks for putting the link here. Did you notice any abnormal color flashing, or brightness issues? Or was it rock solid-stable for the duration of the entire movie?

Hi Tommy O,

If you were talking about me, then to answer your question...Yes, it was rock solid stable through the entire movie.

I had a unit in the past called the Video Clarifier VC-1 which had some adjustments to it that you could manually set. That device, would have some fade in's/out's in the picture and was tricky to get just right.

Then when I found the one for the link I posted, that one is completely automatic and works great. It also runs on either a 9V battery (which I use and they last an easy 3 years), or it has an A/C adaptor that you can buy separately. But what I liked about it the most is nothing to set or adjust, and just like you asked, the picture IS rock solid through the whole film.

suplex

suplex, if you din't already try it & just for kicks try using the Front Inputs without the RX-2 because maybe the Front Inputs aren't Copy Protected & that would be something :D

Also I hope you tried to copy more than just one movie with it because with my RX-"1" it will let me copy some dvds but not everyone but it has always let me copy any Video Tape that I ever tried it with.

My daughter has a Sima C-2 which she has never had any problems with & has copied every dvd she has ever tried it on.

Hey Bill1313:

I have done more than just one movie that way (with past DVD Recorders) and will with my current Pioneer 640, and so far...it really works for DVD-to-DVD. That sounded a little strange that you feel that the Front A/V inputs (Line 2) won't be protected where Line 1, or Line 3 (in the back) would be? Why would a company make it that way? Once people found out, that would be all they would use is the front ones.

I'll try it anyhow, or maybe I will try copying a movie in the front without the stabilizer, to see if it still works. So I will either do that, or in the back with the stabilizer. After the tests complete, I will post results in here.

suplex

Excellent info; thanks guys very much. Awesome forum here; I always learn something new. And I'll be purchasing my first dvd recorder as soon as I save up a bit more. Gonna get the Pioneer 640... Thanks everyone !

Excellent info; thanks guys very much. Awesome forum here; I always learn something new. And I'll be purchasing my first dvd recorder as soon as I save up a bit more. Gonna get the Pioneer 640... Thanks everyone !

Hey Tommy:

It's never a problem to help anyone out. I have learned a lot from these forums also.

I don't know how soon you might be able to buy the Pioneer 640, but if you can take advantage of it, it's on sale right now at Vanns.com for $369.99 with FREE S&H.

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/484399646

Vanns is a very well trusted web site also, so you won't have to worry about any foul play with them.

Why would anyone want to take all that time to record a movie to the 640 hard drive. I can rip and burn almost every movie out there in under 30 mins on my computer and get excellent quality. I got my 640 last friday and I have been playing around with it. One of the glaring omissions I found was no HDD or DVD buttons on the remote. Every other brand I have looked at has had it switchable from the remote. Wonder what they were thinking when they left out the open tray button and the HDD & DVD buttons. I found that editing using the High Speed edit mode works very well. The trick is to find the edit point and then push the pause button and backup or go forward using the FF button. You will see that the timer changers by quarter seconds. Make your cut at a point where the timer has stopped. I edited 3 one hour tv shows this way and burn't them at high speed and the transition from one scene to another after I cut the commercials was flawless. The other thing that worries me is that Pioneer tells you how fragile the Hard Drive is and not to use it to store data. This seems funny since none of the other manufactures have included this in their manual. Unless they used cheap hard drives and expect them to go bad, I see no reason not to leave your movies on the hard drive until you get a chance to view them. Has anyone burnt movies on high speed with a menu only to find out that the #1 & #2 movies swapped places when they were burn't to the dvd?

COMMENTS WELCOME

I agree that there is no reason to record one DVD to another when you have a PC with a DVD writer. Unless of course you have qualms about violating the DMCA by circumventing the CSS copy protection present on most commercial DVDs.

One of the glaring omissions I found was no HDD or DVD buttons on the remote. Every other brand I have looked at has had it switchable from the remote.

The other thing that worries me is that Pioneer tells you how fragile the Hard Drive is and not to use it to store data. This seems funny since none of the other manufactures have included this in their manual.


Has anyone burnt movies on high speed with a menu only to find out that the #1 & #2 movies swapped places when they were burn't to the dvd?

COMMENTS WELCOME

1. There is a button on the remote that toggles between the HDD and the DVD drive.

2. Panasonic and Toshiba also started to include warnings about the fragility of the HDD, and warn users not to rely on the HDD as a permanent storage medium. Consider it a CYA item.

3. For some stupid reason, Pioneer decided to automatically shift the sort order of copy list programs to "most recent first" as a default. If you want to correct this situation, you have to use the sort order option prior to burning your programs.

Do anybody have success with the Auto Start Recording function and Bell Express Vu receiver?

First of all, I connected my Bell express vu receiver to the input 1 of the DVR (Auto Start Rec input). Then I entered the VCR code (573) in my 3100 receiver.

When I set a timer on my Bell express Vu receiver and leave my 640H-S on, there is no problem, the 640H-S record when time has come...

I saw, in the owner's manual that the Auto Start Recording function do the same, but activate the 640H-S only when it's time to record and turn it off when the job's done. When I activate that function on the 640H-S (from the menu Timer Recording in the Home Menu), the 640H-S automatically goes into standby (correct), but switch on immediately and start recording, with or without my Bell express vu receiver switched on.

Anybody experimented that? Thanks.

Many thanks suplex; I will checkout that Vanns website. I take it they are an official authorized Pioneer seller, correct ? Thank you in advance; gonna be away from the computer for a bit today. Will checkout Vanns this evening. Thanks much buddy....

Do anybody have success with the Auto Start Recording function and Bell Express Vu receiver?

My older Pioneer recorder has that feature and the same issue applies with my Comcast/Motorola cable box. The problem with my cable box is it is always passing through the audio even when it is turned off. So the Pioneer immediately recognizes an incoming signal and turns on to start recording. I don't know if that is what is happening with yours, but somehow the recorder is sensing something being received over the line input.

Has anyone in this group, try the widescreen flag recording capabilities of the 640 Pioneer Model? By this I mean, does this unit preserve WSS signaling on video line 20, if you were to send it the correct code? I have heard that many users could benefit from having to Infoedit programs recorded at 16:9, change the FLAG to 4:3 so that the program can be viewed properly on a 4:3 screen..

Thanks, everyone, for making this forum such a valuable resource. I've learned lots just by reading here.

It's annoying that a title given to an item on the program schedule doesn't get copied into the recorded program's header information. Instead, each recorded item just gets a time-date-and-channel stamp (which duplicates information already included elsewhere in the header. If you want a title on a recording, you have to re-enter it.

This sure sounds like a design oversight.

Has anyone found a work-around for it? Or... if anyone at Pioneer is here, is there any way to install a patch that would take care of it?

Blair

1. There is a button on the remote that toggles between the HDD and the DVD drive.

2. Panasonic and Toshiba also started to include warnings about the fragility of the HDD, and warn users not to rely on the HDD as a permanent storage medium. Consider it a CYA item.

3. For some stupid reason, Pioneer decided to automatically shift the sort order of copy list programs to "most recent first" as a default. If you want to correct this situation, you have to use the sort order option prior to burning your programs.


I used the move entry to put the second movie first in the order. I thought that it would now burn in that order

1. There is a button on the remote that toggles between the HDD and the DVD drive.

2. Panasonic and Toshiba also started to include warnings about the fragility of the HDD, and warn users not to rely on the HDD as a permanent storage medium. Consider it a CYA item.

3. For some stupid reason, Pioneer decided to automatically shift the sort order of copy list programs to "most recent first" as a default. If you want to correct this situation, you have to use the sort order option prior to burning your programs.


Ah yes. Stupid me :confused: . If the DVD/HD button were any bigger there wouldn't be room for any others. I think my oversight was I was scanning the remote looking for a colored button which I did't find. Should have refered to the remote guide in the instruction booklet....Oh well! Stupid is as stupid does :(

Update on Copy Protection:

A lot of people have been talking about connecting a DVD Player to the Pioneer 640 to copy their DVD that way (instead of using their computer). Well there has been a lot of conflict on whether or not a certain device (similar to the Sima CT-2) will work with DVD-to-DVD as it is known to work with VHS transfers to DVD.

This is the device I am referring to:

http://direct.stores.yahoo.net/dvdvidstab.html

Well I finally tested it. I placed a store bought, commercially released DVD film in the tray and tried to copy it to the HDD (where you have to start playing it, and then press the "One Touch Copy" button and it starts copying from the beginning). I tried that and it gave me a warning about the DVD being copy protected.

Then I wired my DVD Player (through Line 2, in the front) to the Pioneer and also through the device I gave a link for above. Put the same DVD in, that gave a copy protection error when I put it in the Pioneer 640 directly, and it copied to the HDD just fine.

Now I can make high speed DVD-/+R copies whenever I want to.

So the controversy is over, the RX-2 Video Clarifier DOES work for DVD-to-DVD dubbing.

Thats the same one I bought years ago when macrovision first came out. It worked flawlessly dubbing vcr titles to dvd. I'll have to check with a dvd to dvd. Does anybody make one with a S-Video output for better resolution??

Thats the same one I bought years ago when macrovision first came out. It worked flawlessly dubbing vcr titles to dvd. I'll have to check with a dvd to dvd. Does anybody make one with a S-Video output for better resolution??


The only one I know of with an S-Video Output is the Sima CT-2.

The only one I know of with an S-Video Output is the Sima CT-2.

The Sima CT-200 is the same unit with more options, works great.

More on DL disc recording:

I dubbed two titles from the HDD to a +R DL disc, in high speed, using the one touch copy. I did not use a copy list.

First, I "One Touch Copy(ied)" a 100 min. , 3 chapter, title to the DL disc.
Then, I one touched a second, 90 min. , 3 chapter, title to the DL disc.
Next, I titled the disc, and finalized it.

This worked fine, no problems. I did note one variance from what the manual says, though. It did NOT (automatically) insert a chapter mark at the change of the disc sides, as the manual says it does. I still had two titles, with three chapters each. I am assuming that the 640 did not somehow decide to start the second title on the second side, instead of continuing on the first side, until it was full.

BlairMartin, I agree with you about the stupidity of not having the title one enters in the timer program carrying over on the HDD program list. I cried about that one myself, on this thread, quite a ways back. Someone else said that earlier Pioneers didn't have this flaw, but DID transfer the title, as one would reasonably expect.

On the Pioneer 633, a High-Speed Copy from HDD to DL DVD will NOT split the Title that straddles the layer transition. A Real-Time Copy will though. And yes, the manual did not make the distinction, claiming any copy would cause the Title split.

Chances are a Real-Time Copy on the 640 will cause a Title split.

Oh, so it said title split, not chapter... I didn't have the manual with me to check. Thanks for clarifying that. I don't expect to do any realtime to DVD copying. Too much of a crap shoot, especially for a DL disc. I quickly learned that I want it in the HDD, so I can know what I will get on the DVD. MY only complaint about DL discs so far is that they record so much more slowly than the 16x discs, 20 minutes for a 100m title.

For all those lucky dogs who've got this machine...where have you bought it from
I'm thrilled to be a part of the "lucky dogs" club. My 1st DVD recorder, the 640H-S arrived 2 days ago from Vanns. Tracking of the package was the best I've experienced. Shipped in 1 day and they tell you the date it will arrive - and it did.
I didn't intend to spend this much, but the value and lack of hassle made this worth getting.(and I couldn't find the 531- maybe a blessing)

How does the manual compare to others(in easy of use)? I'm doing alright with it. It is funny how big it has to be. Page 30: "You are now ready to turn on the power"

The manual could really use an index. I find that important things are not listed in the table of contents, or have more, necessary, info in unlisted locations. It left a lot of questions unanswered for me. But, the language is mostly clear. Some things, you just have to experiment to find out. That's why I've been reading this thread asiduously, and posting my own experiences too.

For all those lucky dogs who've got this machine...where have you bought it from?

I guess that makes me a lucky dog too. I got mine from:

A B T E l e c t r o n i c s . c o m (if I don't space it out, they scramble that name).

suplex, if you din't already try it & just for kicks try using the Front Inputs without the RX-2 because maybe the Front Inputs aren't Copy Protected & that would be something :D

Also I hope you tried to copy more than just one movie with it because with my RX-"1" it will let me copy some dvds but not everyone but it has always let me copy any Video Tape that I ever tried it with.

My daughter has a Sima C-2 which she has never had any problems with & has copied every dvd she has ever tried it on.

Well, Bill1313, I have now tried connecting my DVD Player to the back inputs (RCA) running the Video through the RX-2 (which supposedly only does VHS) and my official verdict on whether or not it allows for DVD-to-DVD copying is:

Yes...It Does!

But it did not work on the Front inputs with no RX-2 connection.

The manual could really use an indexI agree with your entire post. I'm always wanting an index. One option is to download the manual from Pioneers site.... then you can search(Ctrl+F) for words.
Maybe cause I'm new, I was lost on the pages on Audio, LPCM, and channels.

Today - day 4 with the 640 - I looked at the HDD contents while recording...and saw that it Auto-named the show being recorded. For the 1st 10 recordings, the 640 couldn't retreive the name. THEN, the next show I recorded, it Auto-named that to! :D (The show: AMEN)
Is it something I did, or is this thing getting smarter?!?!?

Well, Bill1313, I have now tried connecting my DVD Player to the back inputs (RCA) running the Video through the RX-2 (which supposedly only does VHS) and my official verdict on whether or not it allows for DVD-to-DVD copying is:

Yes...It Does!

But it did not work on the Front inputs with no RX-2 connection.


I tried my RXII on the front and rear inputs using a toshiba player as the source and the 640 as the destination. Using two late copy protected dvd movies that I own I was unable to fool the 640 into recording either one. The second movie did actually start to record and went for about two minutes then the record light went out and the copy protected flag came on the screen

I tried my RXII on the front and rear inputs using a toshiba player as the source and the 640 as the destination. Using two late copy protected dvd movies that I own I was unable to fool the 640 into recording either one. The second movie did actually start to record and went for about two minutes then the record light went out and the copy protected flag came on the screen

I had heard something once that Toshiba has a problem working with the RX-2 and some other protection removing devices (I think DVD Red Pro is another one) so I was skeptical with using it when trying a DVD-to-DVD copy with my Toshiba D-R1 recorder as the target unit. But it always worked with it anyhow.

Maybe if you are using a Toshiba as the source unit, that might be where the problem is. I am not carving this in stone, just assuming that it might be part of the problem.

See if you have a different make of DVD Player...even a portable just to use as a test...and see if it works that way with your Pioneer 640.

All I can tell everyone in here is that using the RX-2 with my Pioneer 640 (and a Samsung DVD Player) I truly have had success making copies.

I know it's easier and better to use a computer to do it, and probably 99.8% of the DVD's I have copied have been with a computer, but I wanted to see if I could with the Pioneer, and I can.

Has anyone checked to see if the 640H has a battery backup to hold settings in case of a power outage. Their DVD recorders did although there was never anything in the manual about it. Guess I will find out soon enough! :)[/QUOTE]

Was recording a program (on the 640) when the power went out due to a thunderstorm, was just a few seconds, but everything reset and the recorder continued recording as a new program. Don't know about longer times out.
Bill

How about some more input from you guys that already own a 640H. Likes & dislikes. The edit system looks cumbersome. Any comments there

As a former Toshiba RD XS32 user I can do some comparison of use with the Pioneer 640. At first I thought the absence of an IR Blaster to be a problem, however my cable box has an auto setup for changing the channel. Just have to divide the title and delete unwanted material at the beginning and end. The divide feature is quick and easy for this and easier than playlist editing on the Toshiba. However, I really do miss the combine Main titles feature.
The 640 starts much faster, the xs32 took seemed like forever to get on line. Have missed the first of many live recordings. Maybe newer Toshiba models are faster.
Input of the name seems easier on the 640, have not found the one button “space” key, would like to have one push save like the xs32 . The Toshiba has a qwerty input display, and the one click one space is very labor intensive.
Was wondering if the Pioneer 530 remote has one push buttons for functions like space, clear and save missing from the 640? (okay, so you do have to hold the clear button down to clear entry)
The menus are much more user friendly for the 640, but Toshiba has more options. Have not done much editing yet. Burning dvds is faster (and easier) on the 640, have not noticed difference in picture quality of the two.
Another testimonial for Vann’s- ordered mine online paid $24 extra for 2nd day air, arrived okay.

Was wondering if the Pioneer 530 remote has one push buttons for functions like space, clear and save missing from the 640? (okay, so you do have to hold the clear button down to clear entry)You're talking about editing the title of a program, right? On the Pioneer 633, the "pause" key inserts a space into the title and the "stop" key saves the title as it's been entered so far and exits from title entry screen. I'd expect the newer pioneer units to work the same. And yes, the "clear" key clears one character if you press it quickly, or the whole title if you hold it down for about 2-3 seconds.

You're talking about editing the title of a program, right? On the Pioneer 633, the "pause" key inserts a space into the title and the "stop" key saves the title as it's been entered so far and exits from title entry screen. I'd expect the newer pioneer units to work the same. And yes, the "clear" key clears one character if you press it quickly, or the whole title if you hold it down for about 2-3 seconds.

Sean, Thanks a gazallion, that works on the 640 remote! For editing title names, you saved me a gazallion key strokes.
Bill

Today - day 4 with the 640 - I looked at the HDD contents while recording...and saw that it Auto-named the show being recorded. For the 1st 10 recordings, the 640 couldn't retreive the name. THEN, the next show I recorded, it Auto-named that to! :D (The show: AMEN)
Is it something I did, or is this thing getting smarter?!?!?

I have my 640 hooked up to raw, unconverted Comcast cable, and when I first hooked it up, it DID auto-title a few HDD recordings, and that was visible when you pushed the "Display" button, on the 2nd, or 3rd screen. I haven't seen any more autotitles since. Does anyone know what is up with this? Does it get the titles from the cable signal, but only some channels, or shows, carry the info? I can't find anything, at all, about this function in the manual.

I have the Pioneer 531H and TWC cable with SA3250HD STB..

Mine gets the show title at the same time it takes the thumbnail snapshot and I've found that if I configure the default thumbnail snapshot time option in setup to 3 minutes (versus 0 or 1 minute), it usually picks up the right title for the show. Mine inserts title correctly >90% of the time. While editing, you will pick the thumbnail you desire anyway. ;)

Thanks, I'll try that. I'd already thought of changing the thumbnail time setting for other reasons.

I picked up a Panasonic DMR-ES15 yesterday as a secondary/backup recorder. (It was a $100 demo unit at Walmart – never used). I have been through both the 640 manual and the ES15 manual to try and figure out what disk format I can use on the ES15 so that I can later use the high speed copy function on the 640 to copy from the DVD to the HDD for editing.

I am looking for some help in figuring this out. I am new at DVR’s and the formatting is very confusing.

Here is what the Pioneer Manual says about using the high speed copy from DVD to HDD.

The DVD to HDD Copy screen isn’t accessible when a finalized Video mode disc or a DVD-Video is loaded

It may not be possible to copy from a DVD disc that was recorded on a different DVD recorder or a PC.

Here is a summary of the Disk chart from the Panasonic manual

Disc type DVD-RAM
Format Before Finalization RAM
Format After Finalization RAM
Recording format VR
Play on other players Only on DVDRAM compatible players.

Disc type DVD-R
Format Before Finalization -R
Format After Finalization DVD-V
Recording format DVD-Video
Play on other players Yes

Disc type DVD-RW
Format Before Finalization -RW(V)
Format After Finalization DVD-V
Recording format DVD-Video
Play on other players Yes

Disc type +R
Format Before Finalization +R
Format After Finalization DVD-V
Recording format +VR
Play on other players Yes

Disc type +RW
Format Before Finalization +RW
Format After Finalization +RW
Recording format +VR
Play on other players Yes

update - I tried copying a +RW to the 640 and it won't do the high speed copy.

Notes from Panasonic manual on Recording Formats

VR (DVD Video Recording) format
This is a recording method which allows you to freely record and edit television broadcasts and so on. Digital broadcasts that allow “One time only recording” can be recorded to a CPRM compatible disc. You can record to CPRM compatible DVD-RAM on this unit.
Play is only possible on a compatible DVD player.

DVD-Video format
This recording method is the same as commercially available DVD-Video.
Digital broadcasts that allow “One time only recording” cannot be recorded.
You can play on compatible equipment such as DVD players after finalizing the disc on this unit

Well you can definitely do high speed copies of finalized Video Mode, single layer, -R and +R discs, using the "Disc backup" feature on the 640. You might be able to do that with some speeds of finalized VR mode discs, I don't have the manual here with me, but I believe that it will copy finalized VR mode discs in SP, and some other speeds. If the disc recorded on the Panny WON'T play on the 640, it's a safe bet it won't copy on it either. But, the bad news for you is that the only way to make a high speed copy from DVD to the HDD is with the "disc backup" feature. That doesn't allow editing, or even playback, from the HDD, only copying to another disc. It is a bit-for-bit copy. To get a DVD into the HDD, and to be able to play it back, and or edit it, you would have to load it onto the HDD in real time. But, then there are various ways of doing a high speed copy to DVD, including editing the HDD recording, breaking it up into separate titles, with thumbnails, and creating a copy list, to do the hs copy. If there is some reason you can't do the original recording to the HDD of the 640, instead of to the Panny, perhaps your best bet is to edit it on an RW disc on the Panny, copy that on the 640 using "disc backup," and then reuse the RW disc.

IIRC, the Pioneer high-speed copy from a DVD to the HDD must be from a VR recording, since that is how everything is recorded on the hard drive.

I have an older Pioneer 210S (without hard drive) and a slightly newer 520H (with hard drive). I can record DVD-RW discs in VR mode on the 210S and high-speed copy them to the hard drive on the 520H.

I know nothing about Panasonic DVD recorders except what I read here on the forum. But I think the test you need to try is recording a DVD-RW (or maybe DVD+RW?) in VR mode on the Panasonic (if supported) and see if that will high-speed copy to the hard drive on your Pioneer.

If all you want to do is make copies without edits, you can use the backup copy feature of the Pioneer, which definitely accepts Video mode DVD-RW discs, copies them bit-by-bit to the hard drive (high-speed) and then allows high-speed copies onto DVD-R's.

Even though my 520H is an older model, in most cases Pioneer features have expanded but prior features have been carried forward, except for TVGOS from the 53x/63x to non-TVGOS on the 640.

...when I first hooked it up, it DID auto-title a few HDD recordings, and that was visible when you pushed the "Display" button, on the 2nd, or 3rd screen. I haven't seen any more autotitles since. Does anyone know what is up with this? Does it get the titles from the cable signal, but only some channels, or shows, carry the info?The autotitle depends on two things: The station must be broadcasting the titles. These are carried in the analogue signal during the vertical blanking interval (VBI). In my experience stations are very spotty in doing this - I'm not actually sure if the stations have to do something themselves or if it's pre-recorded on the master "tape" they play when they do the broadcast. If the VBI data is present it must not get stripped out before it gets to your recorder. VBI data can be stripped by cable or satellite companies depending on the equipment they use and whether they're transmitting the signal in it's analogue form or in digital form.
On my Pioneer 633 you can see if the title is being broadcast by using the channel Up/Down button. If the station is transmitting the title you'll see it in the on-screen channel display for a short period after switching channels. As you click through the channels it will quickly become obvious that the title is not broadcast by everyone.

As OM Phil mentioned, it appears that the title is sampled at the same time as the thumbnail, and since stations sometimes start slightly early or late that adds another chance at missing the title if you have your thumbnail set to capture at the very start of the recording (or worse, if you start recordings a minute or so early as I do).

If there is some reason you can't do the original recording to the HDD of the 640, instead of to the Panny, perhaps your best bet is to edit it on an RW disc on the Panny, copy that on the 640 using "disc backup," and then reuse the RW disc.

Hi - That is the problem. You can only edit on the Pioneer if you use DVD-RAM disks. I also wanted to be able to combine titles from different disks to one "final" disk using the 640.

. But I think the test you need to try is recording a DVD-RW (or maybe DVD+RW?) in VR mode on the Panasonic (if supported) and see if that will high-speed copy to the hard drive on your Pioneer.
.

The +RW didn't work, so I will pickup some -RW's and try those. I can always use them on the 640.

If none of this works, I may just return it. I thought it would be an inexpensive way to end up with an extra recorder for the times when I want to record multiple programs at the same time.

IIRC, the Pioneer high-speed copy from a DVD to the HDD must be from a VR recording, since that is how everything is recorded on the hard drive.


At least with the 640, that is not true. You can select VR, OR Video Mode, for recording to the HDD, and can only burn the same mode to disc, at high speed. I've done all my recording, and burning, in Video Mode, so far.

Hi - That is the problem. You can only edit on the Pioneer if you use DVD-RAM disks. I also wanted to be able to combine titles from different disks to one "final" disk using the 640.

Well, you can do some editing on disc with the 640, mostly delete things, but not what you can do in the HDD. I haven't tried to put a second title on a disc with a title already recorded on it, using "disc backup," but I don't think it is possible.

On my Pioneer 633 you can see if the title is being broadcast by using the channel Up/Down button. If the station is transmitting the title you'll see it in the on-screen channel display for a short period after switching channels. As you click through the channels it will quickly become obvious that the title is not broadcast by everyone.


Thanks, I'll try that as soon as I get home from work. I'm off in about 5 minutes!

Here is what the Pioneer Manual says about using the high speed copy from DVD to HDD.

The DVD to HDD Copy screen isn’t accessible when a finalized Video mode disc or a DVD-Video is loaded

It may not be possible to copy from a DVD disc that was recorded on a different DVD recorder or a PC.

What this means is there is some chance than an unfinalized video-mode disc or that a VR-mode disc can high-speed copy back to the HDD. The older Pioneer models could only high-speed VR-mode DVD-RW back to the HDD (mine are unfinalized) but your Panasonic recorder only does video mode to DVD-RW. In this case don't finalize the disc and it might work.

If the Pioneer can read DVD-RAM then it also might work to high-speed copy from a VR-mode DVD-RAM burned on the Panasonic.

Hi, just purchased this machine and was wondering if anybody has problems playing divx files. I burned a few on some cd-rw's and when played, the picture is in b&w and is flickering. Any ideas?

Hi, just purchased this machine and was wondering if anybody has problems playing divx files. I burned a few on some cd-rw's and when played, the picture is in b&w and is flickering. Any ideas?
Try it with CD-Rs to see if that helps.

I can't play .mpeg files burned on CD-R. Those files are from my Sony Cybershot (digital camera). Is there a thrick to play them? I can't even see these files on the disc navigator...

I don't think it says it will play MPEG files burned to a CD-R.

There is a way I can watch them with my 640h-S? I have a cheap dvd player (kosch), that is able to play them. I am a little bit confused to see that the 640h-S can't do the same...

Do somebody know what I can do to play them on my 640H-S? Maybe converting my mpeg files in another, playable on the 640? Those little movies are very important to me...I would love to keep them on dvd...

Thanks

If they play on your cheap DVD Player, then you're set right?

You can definitely get those files to play on most ANY DVD Player if you author them to a DVD. That doesn't mean just writing them as data files to a DVD, it means using an application that takes MPEG files as input and creates a DVD-Standard-Compliant VIDEO_TS folder as output, which can then be written to a disc by most any DVD-Video-Writing application. Then you have a disc that complies with the DVD Standard and therefore will play on "any" player. Minor incompatibilities of the player aside.

If you don't go that route then you take your chances, different players have different "nonstandard" things they will play, expecting a high-end player to be able to play all the nonstandard formats that a cheap player supports will lead to disappointment.

Thanks bobkart.

I will try to convert my mpeg files and jpeg in CD video (supposed to be playable on the 640) with a free software on the net. I can't burn them to a dvd, because I don't have a dvd burner on my computer...only CD burner. Any suggestion for the software to use?

Thanks

It has to be on a DVD to be compliant with the DVD Standard, a DVD "folder" burned to a CD will not play unless the player utself has gone out if the way to support that. Most if not all don't as far as I know.

For authroing a DVD from compliant MPEG files, TMPGEnc DVD Author works fine. For making compliant MPEG files out of other kinds of video files TMPGEnc itself (which stands for Tsunami MPEG Encoder) works great. A search for TMPGEnc should get you to their site.

Has anyone checked to see if the 640H has a battery backup to hold settings in case of a power outage. Their DVD recorders did although there was never anything in the manual about it. Guess I will find out soon enough! :)
In answer to this, one person found "several minutes" in the manual, BUT the 53x/63x series manual stated: "Power off memory....Approx. 5 years (after manufacture)."

This was listed at the back of the manual, Additional Information section, under "Timer."

I've had my 531 unplugged for several hours w/o losing memory.

It would be nice if that was also in the 640 manual????

(I have some "cheap" multi-program digital plug-in timers that retain settings for 1 year, so it's not a stretch to think they used similar backup technology in our equipment? ;) )

I just HAD to do another test of battery backup on my 531!

I unplugged the power for 30 minutes. Clock setting, channels and Timer Rec programs remained intact. As I knew would happen, I lost all TVG listings, but that happens if the power f**ts or it loses RF signal for a nanosecond (I've tested that too!).

When I plugged back in, the display showed "POWER ON" and then the DVR went into standby, and it took several seconds before I could turn the unit back on to check the result.

I then pulled the power plug for 1 hour with the same result.

As I said in my earlier post, I've had the 531 unplugged for "several hours" before (rearranging stuff), and it retained settings and timer programs.

I'm thinking the 640 should do the same (?) except it won't have any TVGOS to lose also!?

This is usually accomplished with one of those long-life Lithium batteries that's the size and shape of a quarter:

http://www.batterybob.com/watch/CR2025_single.jpg

This is usually accomplished with one of those long-life Lithium batteries that's the size and shape of a quarter:
(image removed)
That would explain why they say 5 years (after manufacture)"...the battery probably has a ~5-year "shelf" life, i.e., even if never used.

It would mean, tho', that the actual length of time the settings could be "held" by such a battery is still unkown for sure...I know it's at least 1 hour, and suspect it's longer, but such outages WILL use up battery power...unless it's a rechargeable one (it could happen...maybe they focused their best minds on maintaining user settings and didn't have any more time to design the TVGOS system for fault tolerance???).

(By the way, after pulling the power plug, my TVGOS did not come back overnight, so I rekeyed everything and hope it comes back tomorrow?)

That would explain why they say 5 years (after manufacture)"...the battery probably has a ~5-year "shelf" life, i.e., even if never used.

It would mean, tho', that the actual length of time the settings could be "held" by such a battery is still unkown for sure...I know it's at least 1 hour, and suspect it's longer, but such outages WILL use up battery power...unless it's a rechargeable one (it could happen...maybe they focused their best minds on maintaining user settings and didn't have any more time to design the TVGOS system for fault tolerance???).

(By the way, after pulling the power plug, my TVGOS did not come back overnight, so I rekeyed everything and hope it comes back tomorrow?)

WaB,

As much testing as you've done to your poor 531, it's amazing that it comes back at all now (I've read all the tinkering you've done with the TVGOS). :)


Rick

I ordered my dvr640 on Monday from V- A- N- N , will receive tomorrow. Not the expert you guys are, but have read the manual online for 3 weeks now, and will tinker with it over the weekend. Really just wanted to thank you all for at least giving me some really good information in this forum. We will use it mainly for her soap operas, i will use it for A TON of Digital 8 film i have shot over the years on my Sony camcorder. Hopefully after using it, i can contribute to this forum as well.

Steve

It would mean, tho', that the actual length of time the settings could be "held" by such a battery is still unkown for sure...I know it's at least 1 hour, and suspect it's longer, but such outages WILL use up battery power...unless it's a rechargeable oneThose little batteries aren't rechargeable. But the power requirement to maintain the tiny bit of memory required to save what it saves is minimal, the battery can probably barely tell it from it's normal internal discharge, so short of expecting it to hold the settings for the entire 5 year life of the battery, I would suspect "years" of battery backup capability.

I ordered my dvr640 on Monday from V- A- N- N , will receive tomorrow. Not the expert you guys are, but have read the manual online for 3 weeks now, and will tinker with it over the weekend. Really just wanted to thank you all for at least giving me some really good information in this forum. We will use it mainly for her soap operas, i will use it for A TON of Digital 8 film i have shot over the years on my Sony camcorder. Hopefully after using it, i can contribute to this forum as well.

Steve

Hope you will enjoy the Pioneer 640. I think it has the best value and combination of features of the current hdd DVD recorders available in the USA.

As a long term happy owner of the Pioneer 531. Best 640 (versus 531) feature for me is DVD+R DL support. The only issue I have with the 640 is the remote controls design. I hate "hidden button" remotes in general. I have heard that the Pio X3X series remotes will work with the 640 and when I do get a 640 to replace my 531, I'll be using the 531s remote.

Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.... ;)

Get a Harmony remote. Best investment I've ever made.
Cheers.

Get a Harmony remote. Best investment I've ever made.
Cheers.

I just dog piled (like googled) "harmony remote control" and see that, on Amazon at least, there are quite a variety. Which version do you mean, and how is that one better than what came with the 531H? Your opinion is valuable, but I want to read more detail about the specific one you like so much :)

I just dog piled (like googled) "harmony remote control" and see that, on Amazon at least, there are quite a variety. Which version do you mean, and how is that one better than what came with the 531H? Your opinion is valuable, but I want to read more detail about the specific one you like so much :)
I also use a Harmony remote and mine is the 676. There is a wealth of info in the AVS Remote Control Forum (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=30&f=93) .

You also can go to harmonyremote.com and walk through how the set up might work with your specific equipment. For example, mine is controlling a Motorola DVR, Pioneer 510H recorder, Mitsubishi S-VHS, Pioneer Laserdisc, Sony digital surround processor, Philips receiver and Sony XBR TV. There's no way this could work together at the press of one button without my Harmony.

I too have a Harmony Remote . . . 880. For my wife and children it's a godsend :)
It has worked well with all my equipment except my Pioneer 633. Because the Pioneer 633 was taking up to 90 seconds to turn on, the macros that the remote sent needed to be delayed quite a bit. After my 633 finally turns on from standby mode it goes into 'off' mode at which time it can immediately be turned on/off. Obviously this caused confusion with the remote. Note, this is a 633 problem not a remote problem.
However, my issues with the 633 are old issues as of yesterday. Pioneer (Canada) has offered awesome technical support whenever I've had an issue or question. Hold times . . . 15 seconds. They have now offered to replace my Pioneer model with the new 640 free of charge. At which time I will re-test the remote with the new player and expect the system to work 100% better. Looking forward to immediate on/off. Goodbye TVGOS.

Hi,

First post here :)
Been reading the forum for awhile now and decided to get my first DVR a couple of weeks ago and chose the 640H-S.
I received it last wednesday and been playing around with it every since.

I confess one of the main reason I bought it was for the Divx playing capability.
Aside from recording, being pioneer and etc, of course.
The only concern I got so far is playing Divx files, and I hope I'm in the right place (forum wise) and someone can help.

Here it goes:
I have the 640 plugged in the composite-in of my TV and burn the Divx file to a CD-R. The unit recognizes the disc and the divx, so I hit play...
Here's the problem - the image is black and white and there're a bunch of lines moving horizontally through the screen.


Now I got a couple of question:
Maybe it's because it a DivX 6 encoded file? Or because the file is encoded at 25fps? or at a not-supported resolution?

Also, I burned a couple of Divx files to a DVD+RW and the 640 wouldn't even recognize it!?!?

So far I love it, great recorder, easy to use, great quality and etc.

Only feature I would really wish it had was the ability to transfer divx files from say a cd/dvd media or a flash drive or even hook it up with the usb port to a PC and have it show up as a removal drive (wow!)

Regards,
mb

Am having the same problem...exactly.

Have tried recoding using the DIVX converter from the DIVX-dot-com site, all to no avail.

The DIVX Player from the same site handles burning from a file to CD within the player...these would not even load - with the "loading" message appearing for well over 10 minutes for one file befoer I cancelled by unloading the disc.

All discs recorded on CD-R.

Cannot get DIVX to play!

Thanks!~
Tom

Am having the same problem...exactly.

Have tried recoding using the DIVX converter from the DIVX-dot-com site, all to no avail.

The DIVX Player from the same site handles burning from a file to CD within the player...these would not even load - with the "loading" message appearing for well over 10 minutes for one file befoer I cancelled by unloading the disc.

All discs recorded on CD-R.

Cannot get DIVX to play!

Thanks!~
Tom
I don't know much about DivX except what I've read because I'm interested in it.

I had read that you need to put DivX .avi files on a DATA disc. Here's a snippet from the DivX website FAQ section:

"By purchasing a DivX Certified DVD player you can burn your DivX files directly to a regular data CD or DVD and enjoy high quality DivX video directly on your home cinema system. Burn the .avi file to the disc as data. Do not let your burning program try to format the disc for video playback."

Sounds like you might also need to use the discs made "for data or video"???

Can the Pio 640 take a Panny non HDD unit burned DVD-RAM to it's HDD and produce a DVD-R lossless with no reincode as it can with a DVD-R ? ALL Panny HDD's cannot do this. But since Pio 2006 has DVD-RAM capability, just wondering- a stretch ,I know. If the 2006 Pio 640 could it would truly be a new phenom.

I don't know much about DivX except what I've read because I'm interested in it.

I had read that you need to put DivX .avi files on a DATA disc. Here's a snippet from the DivX website FAQ section:

"By purchasing a DivX Certified DVD player you can burn your DivX files directly to a regular data CD or DVD and enjoy high quality DivX video directly on your home cinema system. Burn the .avi file to the disc as data. Do not let your burning program try to format the disc for video playback."

Sounds like you might also need to use the discs made "for data or video"???


Thanks so much! However, I am burning to data disc...with no luck.

About to call Pioneer tech support and will report back anything I find out!

Cheers
Tom

I have the Harmony 659 and it works well with all my devices. Pioneer 633 and Sony TV. Also controls audio receiver, vcr and digital converter. Turns them all on and off with 1 button. It takes a few days to set up the way you like it, but is worth the effort. Harmony tech support was great.
Cheers.

Firstly I would like to say that I have found this forum to be a terrific resource and that this is my first post after lurking a bit. Thanks for everyone's help in the past.

I have the 531, which I like, but I could never recommend it to my less technically inclined friends. The learning curve was steep and the manual was cumbersome. I use a Rogers cable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 3200 digital set top box. I use the 640 primarily for recording TV, to watch at my convenience with no commercials. I occassional burn an episode onto DVD if I want to watch on my laptop when I travel or if a friend misses an episode of a show.

I bought the 640 about a week ago and I am pleased overall with the following changes:
1) No EPG/TVGOS
2) user friendly Manual Timer Recordings function (I don't use VCR+ or the easy Timer Recorder options)
3) ability to add Titles on the Timer Recordings (but I will reiterate that it is a disappointment that the titles do not appear on the Disc Navigator once the recording has been made, despite the TIP in the owner's manual, p.44, implying that it would)
4)bigger HDD of course
5)no EPG/TVGOS
6)better instruction manual (still needs improvement), especially the recording section because it does not assume you will use EPG/TVGOS

The one thing I don't like about the 640 which keeps me hanging on to the 531 as my primary unit is that the 640 will only play NTSC discs. I know that most users wouldn't be bothered by this, but I have friends from the UK who like to send me discs that are often PAL. OOps this is now Known to be incorrect, the 640 does play PAL discs.

One thing that I hate about the 531 that is not resolved by the 640 is the Auto Title Function. It works great if you press the record button to start a recording while you are watching live TV. If you are using the timer recording option (99.9% of the time for me....can't think of when I last watched live TV) you do not get the title of the show as the label of the recording in the disc navigator, regardless of when you select the thumbprint to automatically appear. This makes no sense & emailing Pioneers' support was a waste of time. If you use an VCR commander with your cable box & leave the 640 on then you would not have this problem. This is not an option for me as there are many people in my house & I cannot rely on someone not turning the unit off after they have used it. The Auto record on L1 is a neat feature but not really an option for me either because I would record everything that everyone else was watching. Recording is a 2 step process for me, setting the cable box & the 640.

Overall. I would recommend the 640 to my friends....even the less technically inclined ones.

The 531 plays PAL discs?

Yes it does, but not commercial ones which are R2 encoded. I am refering to homemade recordings from a a PAL TV signal or a decrypted back up disc that has had the region code removed. For example, if there is a commercial disc that is only available as a PAL R2 disc, and not available as an R1 disc, if you use DVDdecrypter on your computer to make a backup copy, it will be region free but still PAL format. This back up disc will play on the 531 but not on the 640.

Yes I understand that Region coding is different from the PAL-versus-NTSC issue. So my question was, does the 531 play PAL discs, which you answered, thank you, I am surprised to hear that, and wonder why they would not claim that capability since it can only sell more units. Now I also wonder whether the 633 does that too, since that's the model I have.

Yes it does, but not commercial ones which are R2 encoded. I am refering to homemade recordings from a a PAL TV signal or a decrypted back up disc that has had the region code removed. For example, if there is a commercial disc that is only available as a PAL R2 disc, and not available as an R1 disc, if you use DVDdecrypter on your computer to make a backup copy, it will be region free but still PAL format. This back up disc will play on the 531 but not on the 640.

dvdiva,

Does the 531 playback region free PAL DVD's in Color? I have the 533 (same as 531 but w/DV input) and it also plays back region free PAL DVD's but only in Black and White.


Jon

Auto Titling also works with VCR dubbing. It's fun to see what the 640 names my recordings...especially older recordings( and specials). Once, it even gave a wrong title; a show I've never recorded(or seen):"Little house on the Prarie". :D So, I'm guessing the title comes from the station, and they changed the schedule around that day.

P.S. 3 minute thumbnails seems to be working for getting correct title.

About Battery backup: I've had the 640 unplugged over night. when I re-plug it, the clock comes right back, and all my setting are still there.

...so, I'm guessing the title comes from the station...Yes it does, see this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7973306&&#post7973306).

I get an excellent quality color PAL image on the 531. I wonder if the TV receiving the signal has anything to do with it. I use a Sanyo PLV-Z4 front projector.

More notes on 640
The one thing I miss most is the ability to combine (merge) titles on the HHD. For instance, in recording two programs back to back the recorder started the second program before the end of the first. So now I have an orphan piece that needs to be added to the first recording. the Toshiba Xs32 had a combine titles in HDD and chapters feature. Sure miss that.
The manual says you can combine titles on a RW DVD. Is copy back to HDD from DVD only in real time? Have not explored other options on that yet.
Also am I correct in that playlist can only be created on an RW?

With regards to autotitle, does it work with timer recordings from a digital cable box? I can get autotitle to work if I press the record button to start a recording so I know the DVR is receiving the signal. I cannot get it to work if I preset the recording with the timer record function on the either Pioneer 531 or 640. I have reset the thumbnail to 3 minutes as suggested in previous post by Oldemanphil with no change in the autotitle. I am still getting the date & time etc. Does anyone have any other suggestions? Is anyone else experiencing this as well?Thanks.

I tried to play a Region 0 PAL DVD on my 633, it played with the exception of the video portion, I got audio only, so I suspect that PAL disc playback works but there is no PAL-to-NTSC conversion. So those of you that are able to see the playback on your 531, must have multi-standard displays, that can display PAL signals? Either that or the 531 has a PAL-to-NTSC converter which the 633 lacks. I doubt the latter though.

With regards to autotitle, does it work with timer recordings from a digital cable box? I can get autotitle to work if I press the record button to start a recording so I know the DVR is receiving the signal. I cannot get it to work if I preset the recording with the timer record function on the either Pioneer 531 or 640. I have reset the thumbnail to 3 minutes as suggested in previous post by Oldemanphil with no change in the autotitle. I am still getting the date & time etc. Does anyone have any other suggestions? Is anyone else experiencing this as well?Thanks.

I am experiencing the same from my cable box. Even if I put a title name in the record program, it still comes up with the date.
Warning of weird happenings:
Just started a manual record program, (auto displayed the correct title) forgot I had a reminder set, so when I got back to the program it had blanked out, sound but no video except for cable bulletin.

Another toshiba xs32 comparison- hey I liked the options on the Toshiba, just didn't like the all the button pushing menu choosing. you could push quick menu and set an end time like in hour minute. There is an extend on the 640, but it goes into manual record mode. Unless I am wrong on that you have to be there to turn it off at the right time.

thanks again to Sean for pointing out the space and store buttons on editing, did find that in the manual-
Bill

Can the Pio 640 take a Panny non HDD unit burned DVD-RAM to it's HDD and produce a DVD-R lossless with no reincode as it can with a DVD-R ? ALL Panny HDD's cannot do this. But since Pio 2006 has DVD-RAM capability, just wondering- a stretch ,I know. If the 2006 Pio 640 could it would truly be a new phenom.

The only way to make lossless copies with the 640 is with the "disc backup" function. The manual says this works with non-DL -R and +R discs, doesn't mention DVD-RAM, so probably not, but you'll just have to give it a try.

More notes on 640
The one thing I miss most is the ability to combine (merge) titles on the HHD. For instance, in recording two programs back to back the recorder started the second program before the end of the first. So now I have an orphan piece that needs to be added to the first recording. the Toshiba Xs32 had a combine titles in HDD and chapters feature. Sure miss that.
The manual says you can combine titles on a RW DVD. Is copy back to HDD from DVD only in real time? Have not explored other options on that yet.
Also am I correct in that playlist can only be created on an RW?

Even if you can't merge titles on the HDD, you can break off the "orphan piece" into a separate title, and record it to DVD, with the other title, in high speed, by creating a "copy list." There will be about a 2-3 second pause during playback, at the title break, but it will play through. I haven't made any play lists yet, only copy lists, and only on the HDD, so, I don't know if you can do them from DVD. There are sections on both in the manual.

Copy back from the HDD to DVD can be done at high speed, using the "one touch copy" feature. It will copy the HDD recording you have highlighted, or are playing. But, a HS copy can only be made when you are going from the same speed and format (VR or Video Mode) to the same speed and format, and doesn't work at some of the slower speeds.

There is an extend on the 640, but it goes into manual record mode. Unless I am wrong on that you have to be there to turn it off at the right time.If you press the "Record" button on the 633, it starts a recording that must be manually stopped. But if you press "Record" a second time, then "0:30" appears on the display and the recording will automatically stop after 30 minutes. Each press of the "Record" button adds 30 more minutes, up to some maximum value (maybe 6 hours?). Another press and the time shows as "0:00" to indicate you're back to requiring a manual stop again.

So setting up a recording to last for 1 hour is as easy as pressing the "Record" button 3 times in a row. I assume the 640 works the same way.

The only way to make lossless copies with the 640 is with the "disc backup" function.Well, the other way is to do a high speed DVD->HDD copy followed by a high-speed HDD->DVD copy. There are only certain DVD formats that allow a high-speed copy to HDD, I know that DVD-RW VR-mode titles allow it on my 633, and if the 640 supports DVD-RAM then it's quite likely that VR-mode titles could be high-speed copied to HDD from it as well.

PAL discs - I have to be able to play PAL, and other region's discs, because I view them for a film festival I work at. I may be corrected by someone who knows more, but from what I have gleaned, most HD TVs will play PAL, if they get it in the form of a digital signal. They won't play an analog signal from a PAL VHS deck. Most cheap DVD players will play PAL, even if they don't advertise it, but a few, like a Philips I bought for $60 a few years back, do advertise it. They don't convert, so your TV would have to be able to display the signal. Some DVD players only play PAL after they have been hacked to make them region free, even though they wouldn't play a region 0 PAL disc before hacking. I haven't seen any hacks for the 640 yet, but it's new, so one may turn up later. I've also read that some people have taken some decks (not 640s) to service centers, and had them made region free, for a service charge. Might be worth investigating. Some DVD players, like my 400 disc Sony mega-changer, are deliberately made impossible to hack, or modify, and won't play PAL.

Well, the other way is to do a high speed DVD->HDD copy followed by a high-speed HDD->DVD copy. There are only certain DVD formats that allow a high-speed copy to HDD, I know that DVD-RW VR-mode titles allow it on my 633, and if the 640 supports DVD-RAM then it's quite likely that VR-mode titles could be high-speed copied to HDD from it as well.


Well, that may be a major difference with the 640. I'm virtually certain that the only way to do a HS copy DVD>HDD is with the "disc backup" function. That can only be done with -R and +R discs, not pressed ones, but can be done with most speeds. All other DVD>HDD copying is in real time, according to the manual. And, a "backup" recording cannot be played from the HDD in real time, and doesn't show up on the "disc navigator." I would like to be able to do a HS DVD>HDD copy, edit the HDD, and put it back on disc!

I did just make one discovery that astounded me. You can use the "disc backup" function, in both directions, while recording another program to the HDD! I discovered this accidentally. The only exception seems to be that you can't start a "disc backup" recording while a HDD recording is starting. I spent a couple of hours making copies of two different discs, while doing timer recordings to the HDD, with no problem. Then I tried to record a title already on the HDD, to a DVD, with one touch copy, while doing a timer recording to HDD. It wasn't permitted.

I would like to be able to do a HS DVD>HDD copy, edit the HDD, and put it back on disc!I think you'll find that if you high-speed copy a HDD title to a DVD-RW disk in VR-mode, you'll be able to high-speed copy it back to the HDD again. I do this all the time on my 633, and I doubt they've dropped the functionality from the newer model.

It is certainly true, however, that most other modes and media can't be high-speed copied from DVD to HDD. I've never understood why, I can't see what technical limitation there would be for it.

Do any of you new 640 owners have a Panny non-HDD OR HDD unit?- Couple important questions if so.....

Will the new Pio 2006 640 with it's DVD-RAM capability take a Panny burned DVD-RAM from a Panny non- HDD unit and produce at high speed a lossless, no reincode DVD-R? ALL Panny HDD models to date cannot do this. If the Pio 640 could do this, it would be significant. Now an even more important test would be if the 2006 Pio can take a DVD-RAM from a Panny HDD unit and do same- produce a high speed lossless DVD-R. Panny HDD units can do this between other Panny HDD units. My contention has always been that DVD-RAM discs should be totally interchangeable and compatible between manufacturers that have DVD-RAM capability.

Will the new Pio 2006 640 ... take a Panny burned DVD-RAM ... and produce at high speed a lossless, no reincode DVD-R?To anyone who might want to try this, remember that there are two ways this could possibly be done: Use the Pioneer's "disk backup" function to read the entire DVD-RAM image into a backup on the hard disk and then burn it back to a blank DVD-R. I suspect this is the less likely method to actually work successfully. Use a high-speed copy to copy the individual titles from the DVD-RAM to the hard drive, then use another high-speed copy to burn them back to a blank DVD-R. If the Pioneer can read the Panny DVD-RAMs at all, I think there's a pretty good chance that this would work.

[B]Good Morning....as some of you know im a 1st time DVD recorder owner, i bought the Pioneer 640!

Just wanted to say Ive just completed burning my 1st 100 DVD's. Ive been converting VHS & recording some movies off of Directtv. My 1st 100 DVD's were Fuji-film disks. I lost 1 disk out of 100, dont know what happened, but im happy. Everything seems to be working fine, i like the machine. The flip or slide down cover on the remote really isnt all bad, i have no cpmplaint with it. If anyone has any questions about what ive experienced, feel free to ask. Ive been using DVD-R in Video Mode. Just a nice machine to work with!!

See Ya
smiles

I have found no way get rid of the Time & Date stamp on each title using dual layer disks.

When you first create a title, it's name IS the Time & Date. I edit that out with a new name. But when the DVD is created it shows the name I gave it but it ALSO shows the Time and Date stamp above the title name I gave it. I do not want any Time & Date Stamp.

I bring up the title in the edit function, and then hold the "CLEAR" button down for a few seconds. This will erase the date stamp. I input a title, and crowd the date stamp off the display, but the Time and Date stamp will STILL be there.

I am experiencing the same from my cable box. Even if I put a title name in the record program, it still comes up with the date.I ran some experiments on this using my Pioneer 633. I tuned an analogue channel using my 633's tuner and verified that the station was sending a title by using the "Display" key on the remote (two presses of the key show the title if it's present). I did a manual recording (by pressing the "Record" button on the remote) for about a minute, stopped it, and then checked "Disc Navigator" - sure enough the recording had the correct title.

Then I tuned to the same channel using my digital cable box. Even though it's a digital cable box, this channel is in the analogue tier and is basically just passed through the box unchanged to the Pioneer via the Pioneer's L1 input. I selected the L1 input on the Pioneer and again verified that it was receiving the title by using the "Display" key. So far, so good, the title showed up fine. So I did another manual recording, went to "Disc Navigator" to check it, and found that the title was just the L1 input and date stamp.

I did several tests because I found that if you record only a few seconds even via the tuner the title sometimes doesn't show up. But it was pretty consistent - recordings of at least a minute via the 633's tuner ended up with the correct title, while recordings via the line input did not.

So it looks to me like the autotitle feature doesn't work with the line inputs for whatever reason. It's not like the unit doesn't see the title, because the title shows up correctly using the "display" button on the remote. But it won't autotitle. Dumb, IMHO. :rolleyes:

Very interesting Sean.
My experience is a little different. I can get autotitle via L1 input from my 100% digital cable box on both 531 and 640 but only if I do a manual record, not if I do a timer record. Can you get an autotitle on a timer recording via the 633's tuner?

Do any of you new 640 owners have a Panny non-HDD OR HDD unit?- Couple important questions if so.....

Will the new Pio 2006 640 with it's DVD-RAM capability take a Panny burned DVD-RAM from a Panny non- HDD unit and produce at high speed a lossless, no reincode DVD-R? ALL Panny HDD models to date cannot do this. If the Pio 640 could do this, it would be significant. Now an even more important test would be if the 2006 Pio can take a DVD-RAM from a Panny HDD unit and do same- produce a high speed lossless DVD-R. Panny HDD units can do this between other Panny HDD units. My contention has always been that DVD-RAM discs should be totally interchangeable and compatible between manufacturers that have DVD-RAM capability.

I just did a test of this using a Pioneer 640 and a Panasonic E15 and this is what I found:

I started with a DVD-RAM in the Panasonic and recorded at XP mode
Copied this using COPY on the Pioneer (DVD to HDD) High Speed copy was automatically chosen by the Pioneer

Made some edits in Video mode compatability on the Pioneer

Then I attempted to use HS Copy to a disc. Here are the results:

Copy to DVD-RAM worked fine (HS was chosen automatially by the Pioneer) and could be played again the the Panasonic

Copy to -RW only worked if the disk was initialized first in the Pioneer, using VR mode again the Pioneer auto chose HS copy. (video mode did not work) but it then could be played on the Panasonic (note this disk could still be added to later on the Pioneer only)

Copied to DVD-R - the HS copy funtion was auto chosen and the title copied, but, whether the disk was finalized or not, it could only be played on the Pioneer that created it - I even tried on my PC. (If anyone has some thoughts on why this happens this please let me know)

Prviously I had created recordings on the Panasonic using DVD -R and _RW and then tried to HS copy these to the HD of the Pioneer. The HS copy function would not work for any of these, whether they were finalized or not on the Panasonic. You could use the real time copy though.

If anyone has any other thoughts as to how to try any other media on the Panasonic to then be able to HS copy and edit on the Pioneer, please let me know. I picked up the E15 for $100 as a floor model clearance at WalMart, (it was never even setup as the power cord was still in the box with the remote and batteries) with the intention of using it as an additional "virtual tuner" for those times whn I want to record more than one program. I did not ralize the compatability problems I would have. My goal was to be able to HS copy the recording from the Panasonic disk to the HD of the Pioneer, edit (remove commercials) and then HS copy to a -R disk. I am considering returning the Panasonic for something more compatable

So it looks to me like the autotitle feature doesn't work with the line inputs for whatever reason. It's not like the unit doesn't see the title, because the title shows up correctly using the "display" button on the remote. But it won't autotitle. Dumb, IMHO. :rolleyes:

I use the rear S-video (line 1?) input on my Pio 531 from my SA3250 HD digital cable box, don't have any RF connected to tuner on Pio. The auto title works almost every time. So the line input is not the critical exclusion factor.

I usually use TWC's VCR Commander to start/end recording. I have noticed that if I manually record a on-demand program that I don't get the title. I thought that was because the program was not listed in TWC's epg... I'll have to do some experimentation on this.

edited: The on-demand titles are not there and they don't show up in the Pio "display" options either. It makes sense as the as the cables pre-programed EPG doesn't which of the many on-demand titles you are choosing.

Can you get an autotitle on a timer recording via the 633's tuner?I'll give this a try when I get a chance...

I was recently transferring a show from the HDD to a dual layer DVD.

When selecting the titles to transfer the machine advised that the space available was exceeded and it needed to automatically adjust the quality level. I selected "YES".

Prior to copying, the 640 said I had 7.6GB of data and 8.0GB available. So I did "COPY". About 80% through the machine reported "DISK FULL" and quit.

Another dual layer DVD and 2 hours wasted by the Pioneer DVR-640H-S.

I was recently transferring a show from the HDD to a dual layer DVD.

When selecting the titles to transfer the machine advised that the space available was exceeded and it needed to automatically adjust the quality level. I selected "YES".

Prior to copying, the 640 said I had 7.6GB of data and 8.0GB available. So I did "COPY". About 80% through the machine reported "DISK FULL" and quit.

Another dual layer DVD and 2 hours wasted by the Pioneer DVR-640H-S.

Thank you for posting that and please allow me to explain something that I wanted to try doing with my Pioneer 640, to see if maybe you advise me against it.

By the way, if anyone wants to post a reply to this and inform me that it would be done easier and better with my computer...I know that, but wanted to try with the Pioneer unit anyhow.

Here goes:

I have the Lord of the Rings: "Fellowship of the Ring" movie in the Widescreen Extended Edition where the "movie only" takes up two discs (extras are on separate discs yet). The total running time of the film is approx 3:48.00 (Three Hours & 48 Minutes).

Using the Pioneer 640 with a regular DVD-R (4.7gb) I would need to use the speed setting of MN 10 which would yield 3 Hours & 50 Minutes, to get the content of both discs on One DVD.

When I inserted my Verbatim DVD+R DL (8.5gb) disc in, I was able to determine that the speed setting of MN 20 would yield 4 Hours & 2 Minutes which would be enough time to cover my "experiment" (that same speed on a regular DVD yields 2 Hours & 10 Minutes).

So now my intention is to copy both discs to the HDD at MN 20 then after they were on the HDD I would be able to high speed dub them both to the DVD+R DL disc at the same MN 20 speed.

Reason for my experiment is to have the Extended Edition of the film on One Disc (no need to swap discs) at the great quality that the Pioneer 640 can deliver at the MN 20 setting (MN 21 is the SP setting by the way).

Now though, after hearing Sky Cap, I am wondering if I should even bother trying it at all.

I am assuming that Sky Cap did everything that he thought he needed to do in order for his Dual Layered recording attempt to come out OK, yet the Pioneer 640 still gave him an error when nearly finished with his recording. So now I don't know if I should waste my time.

I don't think your 640 (or most any HDD/DVD Recorder) will let you copy from a copy-protected DVD to HDD.

Oh and on the 633, MN20 is the 2-hour recoding speed (SP). Is it different on the 640?

I don't think your 640 (or most any HDD/DVD Recorder) will let you copy from a copy-protected DVD to HDD.

I really hope I am not opening a can of worms by saying this, and I actually don't want to cause any conflict, but my reply to your statement is: "There's ways around that". Don't get too upset though, because I OWN the discs I want to see if I can transfer to One Disc.

Oh and on the 633, MN20 is the 2-hour recoding speed (SP). Is it different on the 640?

Yes it is different on the 640, it's MN 21 for SP mode. It might be that way because the 640 has an LPCM mode (not sure if the 633 does or not).

On the 640:

XP = MN 32
SP = MN 21
LP = MN 09
EP = MN 06
SLP = MN 04
SEP = MN 03

Yes it is different on the 640, it's MN 21 for SP mode. It might be that way because the 640 has an LPCM mode (not sure if the 633 does or not).

On the 640:

XP = MN 32
SP = MN 21
LP = MN 09
EP = MN 06
SLP = MN 04
SEP = MN 03
These are the same as in the 53x/63x manual. LPCM is the same as XP, and XP+ is 41 min.

Yes, there are ways around it, and I believe people are entitles to transfer material that they have purchased as they see fit as long as they are the only beneficiaries of such transfers.

The "ways around it" that I can think of are:

- violate the DMCA and get bit-perfect, non-copy-protected discs with which to start your procedure, or
- use a "stabilizer" device to make analog copies, presumably at similar bitrates as the original.

Assuming the original discs are DVD9's (dual-layer), that means using another two DL discs just to be able to start your process. Fine, no problem, you can do that, but if the second of the two "ways around it" I listed above is what you have in mind, you could more easily just record straight to the HDD at the right bitrate for the final copy to be in high speed (MN20). Thus saving you some re-encoding and a couple of DL discs. And if it's the first of the two "ways around it" that you have in mind, once you have them on your PC as perfect digital copies, applications like TMPGEnc can do all the rest that you need including re-encoding with no need for digital-to-analog-to-digital conversions, and again saving you two DL discs (at $4/disc I might add).

Now if the original discs are NOT DVD9's then your approach at least does not suffer from "wasting" two DL discs, but my alternatives still avoid re-encodings and analog-to-digital conversions to a fair degree.

Not trying to tell you what you should do, more like making sure you realize that there are more straightforward ways to get the result you're after (in my opinion).

Not trying to tell you what you should do, more like making sure you realize that there are more straightforward ways to get the result you're after (in my opinion).

Oh no, I didn't take what you were saying the wrong way at all. I think that the way I should attempt it is by playing them on a DVD Player with a "Stabilizer" in between and making "real time" re-encoded copies on the HDD at the speed I will put both discs on the one +R DL blank. Then once it's on the HDD I can high speed it and save time.

Now let me tell you something interesting about the LOTR "Fellowship" Extended Edition. It comes on Four DVD's, Two for the Movie, and Two Discs of Extras. The discs that are the movie have nothing other than the movie...but...they are DVD-9's because they have many separate Audio Commentary Tracks which take up a lot of space. You can select commentary from the following:

The Directors & Writers
The Design Team
The Prodiction/Post Production Team
The Cast

Which means you can watch the movie while listening to any one of the four audio commentary tracks I listed above.

I don't want to include any of them with my experiment to get both discs on one DL DVD, all I want is the English spoken word track. That is why I might run into a problem getting just "the movie" if I use a PC to combine both discs to a DL disc.

I am assuming that the movie is on one layer and all the commentary tracks are on the second layer. Which should allow me to get both parts of the movie on a DL DVD.

Here are the running times for each disc of "Fellowship of the Rings":

Disc: 1 = 1:45.30
Disc: 2 = 2:02.23
Total = 3:47.53 (or the approx. 3:48.00, I mentioned earlier).

I'll try it by playing it using the Stabilizer in between and see how it works out.

These are the same as in the 53x/63x manual. LPCM is the same as XP, and XP+ is 41 min.

I wish that the 640 had an XP+ mode. It would be nice with the 160gb HDD as it would yield just over 23 hours on the HDD (41 minutes on DVD) and make for some beautiful quality viewing of anything you didn't intend to transfer to DVD.

Okay, that was one of the ways I suggested. For some reason when I read "copy to the HDD" I thought you meant from a DVD in the 640, not from a separate player.

And apologies for missing where you said you knew there were easier "PC-based" ways to do it.

Although I don't believe your assumption that the separate audio tracks are on the second DVD layer are correct. The player can't read from both layers at the same time, my understanding is that the separate audio tracks are interleaved along with the video material, making everything just that much longer (in terms of bytes) and therefore spilling over to the second layer sooner in the program as a result.

And the TMPGEnc way of re-encoding does let you pick which audio track you want. In fact you have to do it that way, the only way I know of using TMPGEnc to preserve more than one audio track (and that way preserves them all) is to use the exact VOB files (preferably joined together to avoid pauses between them) as input to TDA (which precludes re-encoding). The MPEG Encoder can only take one audio track as input and output.

I'll try it by playing it using the Stabilizer in between and see how it works out.Don't forget, I believe you will have 16:9 flag problems going this route. At worst it will cause you to need two DL discs to do it right, one just to get the unflagged material to a PC, and the other to hold the correctly-flagged finished product. That is unless the 640 can recognize and propagate the 16:9 flag from the incoming signal to the DL disc you burn.

Good Morning....as some of you know im a 1st time DVD recorder owner, i bought the Pioneer 640!

Just wanted to say I've just completed burning my 1st 100 DVD's. I've been converting VHS & recording some movies off of DirectTV. My 1st 100 DVD's were Fuji-film disks. I lost 1 disk out of 100, dont know what happened, but im happy. Everything seems to be working fine, I like the machine. The flip or slide down cover on the remote really isnt all bad, I have no copmplaints with it. If anyone has any questions about what I've experienced, feel free to ask. I've been using DVD-R in Video Mode. Just a nice machine to work with!!

See Ya
smiles

Diesel_73:

You went through 100 DVD-R's (using your Pioneer 640) already!! Wow, you don't waste any time do you? Well I think that's great that you have been getting your conversions done and that you like the unit as much as you do.

One question I wanted to ask you about is the speed of the Fuji discs you used. Were they 16x, 8x, 4x?

I tried putting a Ritek 8x speed disc in my unit and it gave me a message about it being an Un-Compatible Disc. That was a Matte Finish on Top.

Then I put a Ritek (Arita) White Ink Jet Printable Top in (which was 4x speed) and it was recognized and worked fine.

I have some Taiyo Yuden (TYG02) that have a shiny top and are rated at 4x speed (even though my computer burns them at 8x) and I need to insert one of them in to see if it gets accepted or not.

So basically I was wondering what speed your Fuji's were. Oh and all the discs I mentioned above are the DVD-R's.

Don't forget, I believe you will have 16:9 flag problems going this route. At worst it will cause you to need two DL discs to do it right, one just to get the unflagged material to a PC, and the other to hold the correctly-flagged finished product. That is unless the 640 can recognize and propagate the 16:9 flag from the incoming signal to the DL disc you burn.

Another thing I just thought of...that I wish I could do...is "combine" titles on the HDD so when I get it on the DL Disc, it looks like one long movie instead of having two titles in the menu that I make.

I think you can do it if you use VR mode, but I tried combining titles on the HDD that I just recorded off the tuner, in Video Mode, and was not able too. Also I don't think I can put the two discs on the HDD in VR mode, combine them, and then make a Video Mode DVD out of it. That would be awesome if I could, but I don't think it works that way.

I'm sorry to sound a bit naive but I was unsure what you meant about the 16:9 Flag Problems. I know what 16:9 is as far as it's aspect ratio (LOTR is 2.35:1 by the way) is concerned, but didn't know what you meant by "Flag Problems".

I have a Toshiba D-R1 recorder (no HDD) that allows you to record something in 16:9. I tried it once but it just puts the thin bars on top and bottom (like 1.78:1) and it kind of squeezes the picture, so I didn't use it other than the one time. I don't think the Pioneer 640 can do that, but I wouldn't use it anyhow.

Another thing I just thought of...that I wish I could do...is "combine" titles on the HDD so when I get it on the DL Disc, it looks like one long movie instead of having two titles in the menu that I make.

I think you can do it if you use VR mode, but I tried combining titles on the HDD that I just recorded off the tuner, in Video Mode, and was not able too. Also I don't think I can put the two discs on the HDD in VR mode, combine them, and then make a Video Mode DVD out of it. That would be awesome if I could, but I don't think it works that way.
Unless they changed something from the 531 to the 640, you can do this. I've HS copied several DVD-Rs from VR Mode HDD to Video-Mode DVD. The Combining must be done from a Playlist only.

I was recently transferring a show from the HDD to a dual layer DVD.

When selecting the titles to transfer the machine advised that the space available was exceeded and it needed to automatically adjust the quality level. I selected "YES".

Prior to copying, the 640 said I had 7.6GB of data and 8.0GB available. So I did "COPY". About 80% through the machine reported "DISK FULL" and quit.

Another dual layer DVD and 2 hours wasted by the Pioneer DVR-640H-S.

Two questions...
1) Was this a DVD+R DL or DVD-R DL and what brand?

2) Was this a single title at 7.6Gb or multiple titles with different recording rates?

suplex, you don't need to worry about combining Titles, since you will be recording from the playback of another DVD Player, just keep the recording going as you change discs. Edit the gap out later.

Regarding the "16:9 Flag Problem", it refers to the inability of the Pioneer (and many other brands) to recognize and propagate the 16:9 flag present (if it even is) in the source material through to the HDD and then on to the final DVD. Playback on a widescreen display will not be affected by this problem, but if you were to play the resulting disc on a 4:3 display, it would not be properly letterboxed, but instead be stretched vertically (or squeezed horizontally depending on how you want to look at it). Several Topics have been made on this issue, finding and reading one or more of them may help you understand the problem better.

Two questions...
1) Was this a DVD+R DL or DVD-R DL and what brand?

2) Was this a single title at 7.6Gb or multiple titles with different recording rates?

Is was Various brands of DVD+R DL. 6 titles all recorded at XP.

suplex, you don't need to worry about combining Titles, since you will be recording from the playback of another DVD Player, just keep the recording going as you change discs. Edit the gap out later.

I never even thought to do it that way. Thanks for the great tip about editing the gap out later.

Also, you cleared it up for me a bit on 16:9 Flags, so thank you for that as well.

Diesel_73:

You went through 100 DVD-R's (using your Pioneer 640) already!! Wow, you don't waste any time do you? Well I think that's great that you have been getting your conversions done and that you like the unit as much as you do.

One question I wanted to ask you about is the speed of the Fuji discs you used. Were they 16x, 8x, 4x?

I tried putting a Ritek 8x speed disc in my unit and it gave me a message about it being an Un-Compatible Disc. That was a Matte Finish on Top.

Then I put a Ritek (Arita) White Ink Jet Printable Top in (which was 4x speed) and it was recognized and worked fine.

I have some Taiyo Yuden (TYG02) that have a shiny top and are rated at 4x speed (even though my computer burns them at 8x) and I need to insert one of them in to see if it gets accepted or not.

So basically I was wondering what speed your Fuji's were. Oh and all the discs I mentioned above are the DVD-R's.

I've burnt about 60 discs so far. Most have been 16x Verbatim -Rs. I did a couple of Maxells, and a few Verbatim +R DL's. I don't believe I've had a bad burn yet. I scan most discs at scan3, and haven't seen any problems.

I just did a test of this using a Pioneer 640 and a Panasonic E15 and this is what I found:

I started with a DVD-RAM in the Panasonic and recorded at XP mode
Copied this using COPY on the Pioneer (DVD to HDD) High Speed copy was automatically chosen by the Pioneer

Made some edits in Video mode compatability on the Pioneer

Then I attempted to use HS Copy to a disc. Here are the results:

Copy to DVD-RAM worked fine (HS was chosen automatially by the Pioneer) and could be played again the the Panasonic

Copy to -RW only worked if the disk was initialized first in the Pioneer, using VR mode again the Pioneer auto chose HS copy. (video mode did not work) but it then could be played on the Panasonic (note this disk could still be added to later on the Pioneer only)

Copied to DVD-R - the HS copy funtion was auto chosen and the title copied, but, whether the disk was finalized or not, it could only be played on the Pioneer that created it - I even tried on my PC. (If anyone has some thoughts on why this happens this please let me know)

Prviously I had created recordings on the Panasonic using DVD -R and _RW and then tried to HS copy these to the HD of the Pioneer. The HS copy function would not work for any of these, whether they were finalized or not on the Panasonic. You could use the real time copy though.

If anyone has any other thoughts as to how to try any other media on the Panasonic to then be able to HS copy and edit on the Pioneer, please let me know. I picked up the E15 for $100 as a floor model clearance at WalMart, (it was never even setup as the power cord was still in the box with the remote and batteries) with the intention of using it as an additional "virtual tuner" for those times whn I want to record more than one program. I did not ralize the compatability problems I would have. My goal was to be able to HS copy the recording from the Panasonic disk to the HD of the Pioneer, edit (remove commercials) and then HS copy to a -R disk. I am considering returning the Panasonic for something more compatable

The fact that you were able to high speed to DVD-R from the original non HDD Panny E-15 source IS VERY significant- No Panny HDD yet can do this. The fact that it could only be played back on the Pio is puzzling and disconcerting- there has got to be some prevent flag being inserted or something? Every other test you did with other media types was expected but also important. You are the very first(hopefully not the last) that has tried and confirmed this to DVD-R- keep plugging. Thanks.

OK everyone, I tried my experiment with a Verbatim DVD+R DL and here is what happened.

Incase anyone missed what my experiment was, I wanted to take the Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring, Widescreen Extended Edition (where the movie takes up two DVD's) copy it to my Pioneer 640's HDD using a different player as the source and running it through a Stabilizer, then using a recording speed of MN 20...which gives 2 Hours & 10 Minutes on a Regular DVD, but 4 Hours & 2 Minutes on a DL DVD...get the contents of both DVD's on one DL DVD, so I don't have to swap discs.

I tried it and everything went well until I ran into a unique error. When I went to "Copy" mode off of the Disc Navigator there was a Yellow Triangle on the Title I just made of Lord of the Rings, with a Black Exclamation Point inside it...signaling that something was wrong. So I tried to Copy from HDD > DVD, and a warning screen came up that said: "The title will be divided where the aspect ratio changes", then it promted me to select: "Yes or No".

I selected "Yes" so it would allow me to continue and then showed me the two titles it made on the next screen. I decided to "preview" them as I was curious as to how it was split, and noticed something odd. The whole title was about 3:49.00, when it got split one title was 3:48.00 and the second was only One Minute. I played the one minute title and nothing was on it. So I then selected to "Delete" the title that was only a minute long and kept the larger title.

After that it allowed me to continue, and it took 40 minutes to High Speed Dub the over Three and a Half Hour Extended Version of the movie, then when that was done it took another 7 Minutes to "Finalize" the disc.

After that I put it in my separate DVD Player (the one I used to get it to the HDD in the first place) and it gave me the typical...Load, then Stop. So I pressed the Menu button and it displayed the menu I created. When I played it, not only was the widescreen aspect ratio correct (2.35:1), but it played with beautiful quality. Thankfully I made chapter points manually and I skipped to the end and nothing was cut off at the end of the movie.

So now I have a new reason to get myself a pack of DL discs. For the most part I don't think I would use them, but for the ability to put any movie that is so long it takes two DVD's on to One Disc, I think it would be worth it to have a few DL's around. I will probably do the other two LOTR films (Two Towers, & Return of the King) this way also.

Incase anyone is interested in some more technical information, I used DVD Info to find the Media ID of the Verbatim +R DL and it's MKM 001 Mitsubishi Kagaku Media (MKM is right up there with the known great quality of MCC) and the Book Type was: DVD-Rom.

Then I played it in my computer using Power DVD, and when I selected: "Show Information" it gave me the following results.

Video Quality: MPEG-2
Audio Quality: Dolby Digital 2.0, 256Kbps

Great report suplex. I really need to be able to record to DVD+R DL since I have over a hundred of those discs and they are half the price of the DVD-R DL, which is the only type of DL disc that my 633 will record to.

The aspect ratio thing is also good news, to hear that it apparently was paying attention to the widescreen flag. Did you try the disc on a DVD Player hooked up to a 4:3 display to see that it was letterboxed?

Regarding the little widescreen flag glitch (yellow triangle), I suspect that at the end of the recording the player returned to the menu or something like that which was not in 16:9 aspect ratio, and the recorded detected that change, prompting the warning. Any Title on a DVD must all be in the same aspect ratio, so it could not put the entire recording on the destination disc as a single Title, it had to split it where the aspect ratio changed (for whatever reason).

The aspect ratio thing is also good news, to hear that it apparently was paying attention to the widescreen flag. Did you try the disc on a DVD Player hooked up to a 4:3 display to see that it was letterboxed?

Yes, it was being played on a 4:3 TV and it had the larger black bars on top and bottom of the screen (2.35:1), it wasn't the skinny bars that an aspect ratio of 1.78:1 will typically provide.

I saw how you mentioned about having many +R DL Discs because they are chepaer than the -R DL's. To the best of your knowledge will the Pioneer even record to a -R DL? I haven't tried it on the 640 yet and even though I only use -R for single layered blanks, I think I might stick with +R for DL.

I am also wondering if -R DL will give playback problems depending on the player you use. I just find it odd that in stores you can't find DL discs in the Minus, only Plus.

The 633 only records to DL discs with the -R designation. My understanding is that the 640 will record to both +R and -R DL discs. But with the price of -R DL discs still at twice that of the +R DL's, there's really no need for you to test the -R DL capability of your 640 except perhaps for curiosity's sake. And the manual might even help with that.

Glad it worked for you, Suplex. As i've reported here, I've done 3 +R DLs, with HS copy so far, and had no problems. Mine weren't as long as yours, the longest just over three hours. Too bad copying that way won't transfer the DD 5.1, or DTS audio. I have found that "Disc backup" will transfer DD 5.1, but of course that doesn't work on commercial DVDs, and you don't run across many burnt ones with DD 5.1.

When I play a DVD, (In a pioneer and other players) the program Freezes for about 2 seconds at the start of each title.

I know of no way to make menus for a program without dividing the program into multiple titles. When I have done similar work using iDVD on a Mac there are no Freezes.

Does anyone know of a way to eliminate the freezes and still have a menu system?

After dividing the program into six titles I did not rearrange the order.

Thanks for any advice.

SkyCap, I've encountered the same effect. Break it into chapters, there is no pause between chapters, but you can't enter titles and/or thumbnails. Break the piece into separate titles, you can enter titles, and set thumbnails. It does play through titles, but there is a 2-3 second pause between titles. If you are dividing up songs at a concert, short films, or even segments of a TV show between commercials, it's not so much of a problem, IMO. But, I certainly wouldn't want it in a movie. You could break the movie into chapters, and make a table of contents card, listing your chapter divisions, to put in the DVD case. I don't think there is any fix for it, just using the DVDR.

Not sure if this will work, but look for an item in your Intial Setup > Playback menu titled "Smooth Playback."

Does anyone know of a way to eliminate the freezes and still have a menu system?The Toshiba's are the only brand of DVD Recorder I am aware of that allow Chapter Thumbnails. And there will always be a pause between Titles. If you don't want the pause then you should not break it up into separate Titles. And if you want thumbnails for your Chapters then you will need a Toshiba DVD Recorder. Or author the DVD on a PC.

Seems like we've been here before. I'll add that I personally have no need for Chapter Thumbnails since it is easy enough to simply skip forward a Chapter at a time and quickly find the one of interest. But that's just me . . . in fact I can do without the Title Menu altogether in the case that there is only one Title on the disc. And one of the DVD Recorders I have (a Toshiba non-HDD model) lets me do just that.

The Toshiba's are the only brand of DVD Recorder I am aware of that allow Chapter Thumbnails. And there will always be a pause between Titles. If you don't want the pause then you should not break it up into separate Titles. And if you want thumbnails for your Chapters then you will need a Toshiba DVD Recorder.

I went to Toshiba's Web site and I could find no HDD / DVD recorders that can handle dual layer discs! So let's say that I want to have just one title 90 minutes long. How is the program divided into chapters? Is there a way to select chapter 5 or 7? I can live without thumbnails, but how would I get to the half way point using chapters? I would hate to have to just "fast forward" through that much material.

Not sure if this will work, but look for an item in your Intial Setup > Playback menu titled "Smooth Playback."

I did try that technique, I think it makes it worse.

Thanks for any advice.

How is the program divided into chapters? Is there a way to select chapter 5 or 7? I can live without thumbnails, but how would I get to the half way point using chapters? I would hate to have to just "fast forward" through that much material.Have you never used the Chapter Skip button? It allows you to advance to the next chapter during playback. Like I described in my post above. If you're in the first Chapter and you hit it, you will then be at the start of the second Chapter. Hit it again, you're at the start of the third Chapter. Etcetera.

...If you're in the first Chapter and you hit it, you will then be at the start of the second Chapter. Hit it again, you're at the start of the third Chapter. Etcetera....and the display will show which chapter number you're in, so it's easy to keep track of where you are. This feature has been built into DVD players and DVD recorders since the Dawn of DVD.

How is the program divided into chapters?On the 640 (which I assume works like my 633), there are two ways to put chapters into your program, both of which involve using the "Edit" function for the title: When you choose "erase section" (to remove commercials from a program, for example), a chapter mark is inserted at each point where you removed something. When you choose "Chapter Edit", you can manually move back and forth through the program (using the Scan or Commercial Skip buttons, for example) and place Chapter Marks whereever you want.

When you choose "Chapter Edit", you can manually move back and forth through the program (using the Scan or Commercial Skip buttons, for example) and place Chapter Marks whereever you want.
The comm. skip button on the remote is a quick way to advanced through a program when placing chapter markers. It will advance program from 30,60 secs, 2,3,5,10 min depending on number of button presses. You can quickly become skilled at advancing through a two hour program in 10 min (or whatever) intervals. Usually takes me less than 5 minutes to add 10 minute chapters to a two hour program.

Have you never used the Chapter Skip button? It allows you to advance to the next chapter during playback.

Thanks Sean and bobkart.

Yes I have used the Chapter Skip button, I guess my confusion stems from the fact that I am used to commercial DVD's.

For the last 8 years I had thought that the menu items in commercial DVD's (with thumbnails) were CHAPTERS and that the whole movie was the TITLE. When I use the Chapter Skip button on a commercial DVD it jumps to the next "Scene" as was shown in the "Scene Selection" menu. This is all I want to do. (But the 640 will not do it without pauses.)

The pauses switching titles drives me nuts. So I think I will just use one title. I guess the 640 can automatically place Chapter Markers every ten or fifteen minutes. So my program will have no menu, I can just press the Chapter Skip button to move forward in larger blocks.

Am I making sense?
Thanks

For the last 8 years I had thought that the menu items in commercial DVD's (with thumbnails) were CHAPTERS and that the whole movie was the TITLE.It depends a bit on what type of DVD you're watching...

On a typical movie, there is one major TITLE broken up into (typically) a dozen or more CHAPTERS. The menu structure for a movie DVD usually includes a "scene selection" screen which gives thumbnails for the chapters. That lets you jump directly from the menu to a particular chapter. If you use the "Chapter forward/reverse" button on the remote while watching the movie you'd be taken to the same points in the movie that the "scene selection" menu would take you.

On a typical TV show DVD, there are two levels of menus - one to select which episode you want to watch, and then usually a second level for each of the episodes which can also include a "scene selection" for that episode. Each episode usually corresponds to a separate TITLE on the DVD, while the "scene selections" again correspond to the CHAPTERs within each title.

Most DVD players (and the Pioneer too, while it's playing a DVD or a title on the hard drive) will show the "title number" and the "chapter number" in the display during playback so you know where you are in the grand scheme of things.

Unfortunately the Pioneer and most of the other DVD recorders don't give you as much flexibility in setting up the DVD menus as computer software does, so you're limited to just having menu entries and thumbnails at the TITLE level, not at the CHAPTER level. And yes, the pauses when switching titles are annoying, so it makes a lot of sense to just live with title-only menus and rely on the navigation buttons to move through the chapters.

It's pretty easy to use auto-chapter, but I guess it depends on how fussy you are about where the chapter skip buttons take you. If you want something a little less random than the auto-chapter (for example, if you prefer that the chapter skip buttons take you to scene changes), then you have the option of editing the title to insert the chapter marks exactly where you want them.

Also, as Oldemanphil noted, the Commercial Skip button is a handy way to move rapidly through the program. It's biggest limitation is that it can skip forward a lot faster than skipping backward.

I find "Scan 4" speed (press the "fast forward/reverse" button 4 times) very useful for rapidly moving through a show. One can make it all the way through an entire disc in about 20 seconds or so, which really isn't particularly slower than navigating through the menu anyway.

It depends a bit on what type of DVD you're watching...

On a typical movie, there is one major TITLE broken up into (typically) a dozen or more CHAPTERS. The menu structure for a movie DVD usually includes a "scene selection" screen which gives thumbnails for the chapters. That lets you jump directly from the menu to a particular chapter. If you use the "Chapter forward/reverse" button on the remote while watching the movie you'd be taken to the same points in the movie that the "scene selection" menu would take you.

On a typical TV show DVD, there are two levels of menus - one to select which episode you want to watch, and then usually a second level for each of the episodes which can also include a "scene selection" for that episode. Each episode usually corresponds to a separate TITLE on the DVD, while the "scene selections" again correspond to the CHAPTERs within each title.

Most DVD players (and the Pioneer too, while it's playing a DVD or a title on the hard drive) will show the "title number" and the "chapter number" in the display during playback so you know where you are in the grand scheme of things.

Unfortunately the Pioneer and most of the other DVD recorders don't give you as much flexibility in setting up the DVD menus as computer software does, so you're limited to just having menu entries and thumbnails at the TITLE level, not at the CHAPTER level. And yes, the pauses when switching titles are annoying, so it makes a lot of sense to just live with title-only menus and rely on the navigation buttons to move through the chapters.

Thanks Sean! Your explanation of titles and chapters are clear to be now. My research shows that only some Toshiba recorders can create a chapter menu system. However these units can not record to a double layer DVD!

I re-recored my program to the HDD and kept it with just one title. Then I copied it to DVD. But when I use the Chapter Skip button the DVD quits! (I suspect this is because there is only one chapter).

Before I copied HDD > DVD I went to Initial set up > Recording > Auto chapter > and set both Video and DVD+R to 15 minutes. Shouldn't this have given chapters spaced 15 minutes apart? Why do I have only one Chapter?

Thanks!!

Hi there,
I just joined this forum as I just purchased and received the Pioneer 640H-S and don't know beans about DVR's etc. other than I have wanted one for the longest time and finally got one and hope I did the right thing by getting the 640?
I haven't turned it on yet to do the set up as I am shivering in my boots to do so!

I connected it up by using the video component jacks as that is what my TV had open to use. Has anyone hooked theirs up using the video component jacks? I had to buy cables first.

I just found out that having the component video hookup doesn't mean my TV is Progressive Scan compatible?
I was unaware of that. I just thought by having the component connection was all that was needed to be.
My TV manual doesn't state the word progressive scan in black & white so I have no way of telling?
It just describes the Input levels and Timing with Component Video, like Y = 1.0Vp-p (includes sync) 75ohms etc..and on to saying the Pr & Pb=700mVp-p.
It says these inputs are compatible with component video signals from standard DVD players and other equipment sending a standard NTSC component video signal (480i).
What makes it compatible with Progressive scan?

I still have yet to turn the DVR on for the set up, as I don't know, if by the way I have it connected, is OK and do I check Compatible instead of Not for PScan when setting it up?
Any hints on getting me going is deeply appreciated.
I have a big screen Mitsubishi analog TV and am on cable. Not broadband.

So happy to have found this forum! I love it.
Thanx,
Urlee

If the manual to your TV says 480i, then that's all you can input. Unless the TV can input 480p, you can't use the progressive scan output of your recorder. Set it to 480i.

rgazzara,
THANK you soooo much for that info.

Urlee

ok, so far love this machine. Have transferred most of my Hi-8 tapes with out any problem. Dumb question, would it hurt the machine to leave it on all the time, that way i can use the Timer Record of my Directv. (it only makes it REC on and REC off, will not actually turn it on or off powerwise). That way i would only have to do one timer setting and not the two that i have to do now. (one on my STB and one on the DVD Recorder).

Thank you in advance,
Steve

Dumb question, would it hurt the machine to leave it on all the time?

Just like they say everywhere else...there are no dumb questions.

Now to answer you, I imagine that as long as it was well ventilated (meaning you were not using a dust cover or had it close enough to anything to block the vents or fan), then I imagine that other than slightly raising your electric bill there would probably not be any problems.

I know that I have heard that Stereo Receivers to which you have your entire Home Theatre connected too, actually can work better if left on all the time. So I imagine that any electronic device would be ok with being "on" all the time, it would be different if you had a DVD in it and set it to play over and over again (if it even can be set that way), then you run the overheating risk along with other problems, but if it's just on, it's different.

You might want to wait until people like Sean Nelson or bobkart get a chance to reply to this as they probably have more experience, but it seems to me that it wouldn't hurt anything.

I re-recored my program to the HDD and kept it with just one title. Then I copied it to DVD. But when I use the Chapter Skip button the DVD quits! (I suspect this is because there is only one chapter).Yep, if there are no chapters in the title (acutally, only 1 chapter that's as long as the title is) then the "chapter skip" buttons take you right to the very end or beginning of the title.

I don't use the auto-chapter feature myself (I like to know where my chapters are going), so I'm not too familiar with it. But I think the essential part of it is as follows: If there are no chapters in your title on the hard drive, then the auto-chapter will add chapters, but only if you do a real-time copy, not if you do a high-speed copy (the copy can be "high speed" because it doesn't change anything about the title). So if you want to use high speed copies (and who wouldn't?) you've got to get the chapters into the title when you record it on the hard drive. To get make the auto-title work for recordings made to the hard drive, you have to go into the setup menu and make sure the unit is set to record to the hard drive in "Video" mode and that the auto-chapter option is on.

If you've already got titles on the hard drive with no chapter marks in them, you'll have to either manually add the chapters using the edit menu, or copy them to DVD in real time with the auto-chapter mode on. To copy in real time, you have to select the recording mode in the screen that lets you edit the playlist.

Dumb question, would it hurt the machine to leave it on all the time, that way i can use the Timer Record of my Directv.For those of us with the 2005 Pioneer models who haven't explictly disabled the EPG, the machines actually ARE on all the time since they're continually trying to download guide information. I have two machines that have operated this way for 9 months with no ill effects.

Hard drive DVD recorders are essentially little computers, and computers can generally be left on continuously without any problems. The most wear-related parts (assuming you're not actually recording or playing a DVD) are the fan and the hard drive. These components will eventually fail, but chances are they'll last for at least 5 years whether your recorder is on all the time or not.

As suplex said, the most important thing is to make sure the unit is well ventillated. I'd add that a dust-free environment will also help to prolong fan life and help prevent dust (and heat) build-up inside the machine.

Dumb question, would it hurt the machine to leave it on all the time, that way i can use the Timer Record of my Directv. Thank you in advance,
Steve[/QUOTE]


I think that you could wear out the dvd drive bearings eventually, may be what happened to my Toshiba XS32. Is the drive is running without a disk? (for the technical guys out there?
Bill

Even if you can't merge titles on the HDD, you can break off the "orphan piece" into a separate title, and record it to DVD, with the other title, in high speed, by creating a "copy list." There will be about a 2-3 second pause during playback, at the title break, but it will play through. I haven't made any play lists yet, only copy lists, and only on the HDD, so, I don't know if you can do them from DVD. There are sections on both in the manual.

Copy back from the HDD to DVD can be done at high speed, using the "one touch copy" feature. It will copy the HDD recording you have highlighted, or are playing. But, a HS copy can only be made when you are going from the same speed and format (VR or Video Mode) to the same speed and format, and doesn't work at some of the slower speeds.

Thanks, tried that on my orphan ending and it worked. Scanned in skip4 mode to end and played automatically with the end with a minor pause. But would still like to have HDD merge titles.

If you press the "Record" button on the 633, it starts a recording that must be manually stopped. But if you press "Record" a second time, then "0:30" appears on the display and the recording will automatically stop after 30 minutes. Each press of the "Record" button adds 30 more minutes, up to some maximum value (maybe 6 hours?). Another press and the time shows as "0:00" to indicate you're back to requiring a manual stop again.

So setting up a recording to last for 1 hour is as easy as pressing the "Record" button 3 times in a row. I assume the 640 works the same way.


Yes, it is in the manual, but doesn't the "extend" feature have to be set (options for 30-60min ect.) (in the timer set menu) to use the add time, instead of the "just keep on recording" mode?

I think that you could wear out the dvd drive bearings eventually, may be what happened to my Toshiba XS32. Is the drive is running without a disk? (for the technical guys out there?The DVD drive won't run without a disk, but most hard drives will run while the power is on whether you're actively using it or not. The hard drives used in consumer equipment are typically rated for 5 years of service, and it doesn't really matter that much whether they're on or off for that time. In fact, each time the drive stops and starts there's extra wear on the read/write heads, so most drives have a maximum number of stop/start cycles that they're rated for (typically around 50,000).

The DVD drive won't run without a disk, but most hard drives will run while the power is on whether you're actively using it or not. The hard drives used in consumer equipment are typically rated for 5 years of service, and it doesn't really matter that much whether they're on or off for that time. In fact, each time the drive stops and starts there's extra wear on the read/write heads, so most drives have a maximum number of stop/start cycles that they're rated for (typically around 50,000).

The HDD of my Panasonic E-500 goes into "HDD Sleep" after a period of inactivity. I presume that means that the HDD spins down and stops. Doesn't Pioneer have a similar feature on its HDD DVD recorders?

Pioneer 640 Wish List

If I could ask for things on the 640 that would make it easier for me this would be My list:
Ability to mere/combine titles on the HDD. Yes, it can be done on disk, would like it on HDD.
One push button for clear title in edit title. Don’t like holding down the button.
End time set to minute instead of 30 min blocks. The Toshiba has this: in recording enter quick menu- set end time. Handy if you have to leave before the end of manual recording in progress, or if you want to be sure it turns off at the right time.
Way to get from Disk Navigator to copy menu without quitting menu and restarting menu. (Have I overlooked a way to do this?)
And if you want to get picky:
smaller finalize screen, smaller window to show progress of copy and or finalize.
Multiple play lists on HDD
Auto chapter divide on HDD.
Auto title in set timer start record.

Overall I am very happy with the 640 after a couple of week’s operation. Seems much easier to edit than the Toshiba XS32. If someone is considering the Toshiba, it does have more options on editing at the expense of (to me) complicated menu navigation.

Things I like:
Quick start up
Multiple ways of entering text title with remote.
Naming of genre (would like more!)
Toshiba has icons, no name displayed, “movie -general” being one.

Pioneer 640 Wish List

I liked your list quite a bit, here is what I would add (if I mention any you already mentioned, it's by accident):

1. Open/Close - Eject Button on Remote Control.
2. More Menu Creating Options.

On my Toshiba D-R1 and D-R2 (with no HDD) you can set it so if there are multiple titles on a disc you make, you can select to have Title 2 play after Title 1 (then in order after that) or after each title is played it comes back to the Menu screen. It can be set to start with the Menu screen, or start playing the title, and when the disc is finished you can set it to either Stop playback all together, go to the Menu, or start over again with Title 1. The Pioneer should have much greater ability to customize the finalized disc.

3. Agreed on auto chapter creation for anything recorded to the HDD, and it should be in 5 minute jumps (5 Minutes, 10 Minutes, 15 Minutes, etc...) instead of starting at 10 minutes and only being for real-time copying/recording to DVD.

4. Not that I use it, but it should have an HDMI connection (that everyone talks about in here), and a DV connection as well. Don't know how that would reflect the price though.

Other than that, I really love everything else about the unit. I would mention a larger HDD, but I seriously doubt I will ever challenge the capacity that 160gb will yield for me, so I can't really complain about that.

Can someone please tell me keep my 640 from turning itself off after recording?

I set the start and stop times and when it finishes recording that program, it powers off.
Since it does this, I can't set start and stop times for more than one program.

For the life of me I can't find the answer in the manual. Does anyone know the page number or a way to record more than one program at two different times on the same night?

tia, Bob

Try page 42 under manual recordings. We just got ours the other day, have 4 programs that record everyday. So far perfect each time. Sorry can't be of more help, still learning myself.

i have a Sony Hi-8 camcorder. I thought that for sure i would need a DV input on a DVD recorder. The 640 does not have a DV input as been discussed before. My camcorder has S-Video connection and Audio L + R outputs on it. Just hooked up the cables to the camcorder and connected to L-2 input on the front panel of the Pioneer 640. Turned power on both camcorder and Recorder. I hit RECORD on the remote control of the 640 and within a few seconds i hit PLAY on my camcorder. That small amount of dead recording can be edited out really easy using the Pioneer. Picture quality is very good. Only thing i notice is that the Date / Time is not transferred to the DVD Recorder, not a big deal. So far i record everything on the HDD and after i get done editing, will transfer to a blank DVD.

I have a question for those of you using a VCR commander/IR controller with the 640. Does your 640 go into standby after the recording is done? If it does, how do you do 2 recordings hours apart if you are not there to turn the unit on again? Mine goes into standby after manual recordings when i set the end time using the 30 min intervals. I haven't used my IR controller yet as I am often not home while recording is in progress and I am afraid of losing anything critical. I suppose I could experiment with non critical recordings, but the machine is so busy as it is.
Thanks

Does your 640 go into standby after the recording is done? If it does, how do you do 2 recordings hours apart if you are not there to turn the unit on again?I set the start and stop times and when it finishes recording that program, it powers off. Since it does this, I can't set start and stop times for more than one program.If you schedule a show to record using the 640's scheduling options, it will automatically turn itself on and record it when the scheduled time arrives. It actually turns itself on a a little early so that it's ready to start at exactly the scheduled time.

Very interesting Sean.
My experience is a little different. I can get autotitle via L1 input from my 100% digital cable box on both 531 and 640 but only if I do a manual record, not if I do a timer record. Can you get an autotitle on a timer recording via the 633's tuner?I tried this on my 633 last night - I found a channel that the title was being received on (by hitting the "Display" key on the remote and confirming that the title was shown), then scheduled a 5-minute recording via the tuner and a second via the L1 input (coming from my cable box with it set to the same analogue channel). Neither recording showed the title, only the input and date/time stamp. I know that I do get the titles sometimes, but it looks like it's a hit or miss proposition...

Way to get from Disk Navigator to copy menu without quitting menu and restarting menu. (Have I overlooked a way to do this?)

Well, you can do highspeed HDD>DVD copies from the disc navigator. Push the "One touch copy" button, and the highlighted program will be copied.

My wish list:

Be able to hook up a keyboard to the USB port, and input title info that way.
Be able to do a HS copy DVD>HDD, with a video mode DVD.

Yes, it is in the manual, but doesn't the "extend" feature have to be set (options for 30-60min ect.) (in the timer set menu) to use the add time, instead of the "just keep on recording" mode?

No. The "extend" function is only for timer recordings set in timer recording menu. It has no effect on the "record" button's quick timer record function of adding 30 minutes a push. I wish it used 15 minute increments!

Can someone please tell me keep my 640 from turning itself off after recording?

I set the start and stop times and when it finishes recording that program, it powers off.
Since it does this, I can't set start and stop times for more than one program.

For the life of me I can't find the answer in the manual. Does anyone know the page number or a way to record more than one program at two different times on the same night?

tia, Bob

Bob, as others have told you, programmed recordings will start when the DVDR is turned off. The 640 is my first DVR, so I was very surprised to find that the 640 will start a timer recording while it is turned on! VCRs WON'T start one while turned on.

Bob, as others have told you, programmed recordings will start when the DVDR is turned off. The 640 is my first DVR, so I was very surprised to find that the 640 will start a timer recording while it is turned on! VCRs WON'T start one while turned on.

Most, if not all, HDD DVD recorders will start a timer recording while the unit is on.

I liked your list quite a bit, here is what I would add (if I mention any you already mentioned, it's by accident):

1. Open/Close - Eject Button on Remote Control.
2. More Menu Creating Options.

On my Toshiba D-R1 and D-R2 (with no HDD) you can set it so if there are multiple titles on a disc you make, you can select to have Title 2 play after Title 1 (then in order after that) or after each title is played it comes back to the Menu screen. It can be set to start with the Menu screen, or start playing the title, and when the disc is finished you can set it to either Stop playback all together, go to the Menu, or start over again with Title 1. The Pioneer should have much greater ability to customize the finalized disc.

3. Agreed on auto chapter creation for anything recorded to the HDD, and it should be in 5 minute jumps (5 Minutes, 10 Minutes, 15 Minutes, etc...) instead of starting at 10 minutes and only being for real-time copying/recording to DVD.


4. Not that I use it, but it should have an HDMI connection (that everyone talks about in here), and a DV connection as well. Don't know how that would reflect the price though.

Other than that, I really love everything else about the unit. I would mention a larger HDD, but I seriously doubt I will ever challenge the capacity that 160gb will yield for me, so I can't really complain about that.


Like your list also, many times (okay, so a few) I have just sat down to find the dvd door sticking out. Or would like to eject a just finalized disk as a reminder that it was done.
I can see that your Toshiba use enters into the list
Hey, wouldn't that be great if the 640 had the Toshiba editing options?
the usb keyboard option would be high on my list also, just didn't think of it at the time.
Bill

ok, so far love this machine. Have transferred most of my Hi-8 tapes with out any problem. Dumb question, would it hurt the machine to leave it on all the time, that way i can use the Timer Record of my Directv. (it only makes it REC on and REC off, will not actually turn it on or off powerwise). That way i would only have to do one timer setting and not the two that i have to do now. (one on my STB and one on the DVD Recorder).

Thank you in advance,
Steve

Steve, depending on how your 640 is hooked up, you might be able to take advantage of the line 1 input feature. The 640 will automatically turn on when it gets a signal, on that input. So, perhaps your Directv could turn it on for you, eliminating the double programming. Just add a minute at the beginning, to allow the DVDR to start in time.

Most, if not all, HDD DVD recorders will start a timer recording while the unit is on.

That makes good sense, but I had not anticipated it, being familiar with VCRs.

kjbawc and sean,

Thanks for the input.
It works as advertised.
This is also my first DVR.
My confusion was remedied when I figured out that the Dish System Update time was set between the two recording times. I just have to move it to a time after the last recording end time!

Thanks again,

Bob

Well, you can do highspeed HDD>DVD copies from the disc navigator. Push the "One touch copy" button, and the highlighted program will be copied.

My wish list:

Be able to hook up a keyboard to the USB port, and input title info that way.
Be able to do a HS copy DVD>HDD, with a video mode DVD.

thanks for the tip. I hate to be the example for "if all else fails, read the instructions" but that must be in the manual too. Hope sombody is getting useful stuff from these posts.

I will append my list to include your wish list also!

Steve, depending on how your 640 is hooked up, you might be able to take advantage of the line 1 input feature. The 640 will automatically turn on when it gets a signal, on that input. So, perhaps your Directv could turn it on for you, eliminating the double programming. Just add a minute at the beginning, to allow the DVDR to start in time.

If you have a cable box does the signal come from a recording set by the cable box, or is the cabal box off and turning it on activates it? In other words, can it be activated when the cable box is already on?

You would have to turn the cable box off, or it would be outputting a signal all of the time. When it turns on, to do a timer recording, the 640 would sense it, and turn on. It would turn off when the STB turned off. This would work with a direct connection. I'm not sure if it would work if the STB goes through an A/V receiver, but it might. At least my TV says "searching for signal" as if getting none, when the STB is off, but is selected on the receiver. you would have to leave the receiver turned on. Worth a try. It might vary, depending upon the receiver, and the STB. If the STB outputs pass-through cable, while turned off, over the line outputs, it won't work.

Don't forget that you also have the option of scheduling a recording in the Pioneer as well as in the cable box. You program the cable box to turn on and tune the appropriate channel at a given time, and you also program the Pioneer to turn on and start recording from the L1 (or whichever) input at the same time. It's a little more work, but it's performed flawlessly for me for countless shows.

The original poster I replied to, snagy, IIRC, wanted to avoid the double programming. I sometimes do the double programming, or just tune the STB to the channel I want, and leave it, and the receiver, on. The only time I get into trouble, is when I forget that I programmed two things on the dual tuner DVR STB. I've missed the last half of a few that way... :o

Hello all: New to the forum. Thanks for all the great info. Received a new 640 yesterday and love it for the most part. One problem though. Mine is real picky about the DVD's it will play. Seems about as picky as my old XBOX. Have one movie with numerous light scratches that my Lite-on 5045 and Pioneer 588A will play without a problem. The 640 just keeps hanging up at the start of the disc. Similar prob with it hanging on another disk. I was thinking that the 640 should do at least as well as these other units when playing a challenged disk.

I've had some good results with back-up, one-touch and playlist copying. Didn't have any problem with playlist High-Speed copying to a DVD-R Video mode disk.

An interesting observation was that an edited DVD copied to the Hard Drive and high-speed copied to a DVD-R had a slightly better pic on an S-video L2 input recording from the Lite-on than from a one-touch internal recording. Think this may be due to the L2 input going through the 640's pic enhancements.

How has your 640 responded when trying to play challenged disks?

When you create a DVD that only has one title the built-in pioneer menu system appears not to work very well.

You end up with a menu that has 3, 4 or 6 "selections" but only one is valid, with the other "selections" blank.

Does anyone have any suggestions about a better way to do this? What I would like to have is a screen that shows the "thumbnail" of the one and only title with a "Start".

Thanks to all

i have a Sony Hi-8 camcorder. I thought that for sure i would need a DV input on a DVD recorder. The 640 does not have a DV input as been discussed before. My camcorder has S-Video connection and Audio L + R outputs on it.

Snagy,
You will never know how HAPPY you made me!

I also have a Sony camcorder and have been wanting for years to get something to do what you did which is why I had my eye on the 633 but got the 640 thinking it had the same features to do that.
Thanks again!

One happy camper,
Urlee

Don't forget that you also have the option of scheduling a recording in the Pioneer as well as in the cable box. You program the cable box to turn on and tune the appropriate channel at a given time, and you also program the Pioneer to turn on and start recording from the L1 (or whichever) input at the same time. It's a little more work, but it's performed flawlessly for me for countless shows.

kjbawc The original poster I replied to, snagy, IIRC, wanted to avoid the double programming. I sometimes do the double programming, or just tune the STB to the channel I want, and leave it, and the receiver, on. The only time I get into trouble, is when I forget that I programmed two things on the dual tuner DVR STB. I've missed the last half of a few that way...

Tried both methods. My cable box is less than reiable, has not switched channels to record the second program on a different channel (sometimes). Will have to experiment with that to see if the problem is operator error. Now the preferred method is to program the 640 and leave the cable box on the channel to record.
That is okay if you only record one program.
Maybe add an IR blaster to my 640 wish list!
thanks for the input.

The DVD drive won't run without a disk, but most hard drives will run while the power is on whether you're actively using it or not. The hard drives used in consumer equipment are typically rated for 5 years of service, and it doesn't really matter that much whether they're on or off for that time. In fact, each time the drive stops and starts there's extra wear on the read/write heads, so most drives have a maximum number of stop/start cycles that they're rated for (typically around 50,000).

then it would be wise to take the disk out if you left your machine on, yes?

then it would be wise to take the disk out if you left your machine on, yes?Well, I suppose you could if you want to make aboslutely sure. But I think it's pretty unlikely that the drive will spin if you're not actively playing a disk. I know the drives on my computer spin down when they're not actively being used, and since they use basically the same type of drive in the DVD recorders (it has the same IDE interface as a computer drive does) I doubt they'd be any different.

It depends a bit on what type of DVD you're watching...

On a typical movie, there is one major TITLE broken up into (typically) a dozen or more CHAPTERS. The menu structure for a movie DVD usually includes a "scene selection" screen which gives thumbnails for the chapters. That lets you jump directly from the menu to a particular chapter. If you use the "Chapter forward/reverse" button on the remote while watching the movie you'd be taken to the same points in the movie that the "scene selection" menu would take you.

When I create a DVD that only has ONLY ONE title the built-in pioneer menu system appears not to work very well.

You end up with a menu that has 3, 4 or 6 "selections" but only one is valid, with the other "selections" blank.

Any suggestions about a better way to do this? What I would like to have is a screen that shows the "thumbnail" of the one and only title with a "Start".

With just one choice in the "menu" it looks a little silly

Thanks

Any suggestions about a better way to do this? What I would like to have is a screen that shows the "thumbnail" of the one and only title with a "Start".
Thanks

You are out of luck. DVD Recorders come with pre-built menu templates that can't be altered, so you have to live with it.

If you want control over your menu creation then you have to move to an authoring program and use your PC.

What is meant by VR mode and Video mode?

Urlee

Urlee, They are two different Recording Formats just like BETA & VHS :)

What is meant by VR mode and Video mode?Video Mode DVDs are the most compatible with an ordinary DVD player. If you plan to play your DVDs on a regular player (as opposed to your DVD recorder), and especially if you want to share the DVDs with other people, then it's best to burn your DVDs in this mode.

VR Mode is a newer format that, among other things, offers more editing flexibility. VR Mode disks work just fine on the recorder that made them, but many ordinary DVD players will not be able to play them.

IMHO, you're safest to stick with video mode, especially if you have a DVD recorder with a hard drive. Much of the editing flexibility you get with VR Mode is redundant when you can do all the editing you want on the hard drive and then burn the result to a Video Mode DVD.

An exception to this is that if you want to temporarily store some programs on DVD-RW discs (if you fill up your hard drive, for example) then burning them in VR Mode gives you the flexibility of later copying them back to the hard disk at high speed with no quality loss.

Sean,

THANK you so much for explaning it soooooo well for me.

I have yet to try my 640 out as I am trying to read and understand the manual on how? Plus peeking here at the posts.

Urlee

[QUOTE=kjbawc]Well, you can do highspeed HDD>DVD copies from the disc navigator. Push the "One touch copy" button, and the highlighted program will be copied.

Kjbawc,
I tried that and it went into a real-time copy. Maybe I didn't do someting right.

has anyone had a problem with their 640 reading disks?

I love editing with the 640! Cutting out commercials is a breeze. The preview right before you make the deletion is awesome! My lite-on 5045 had some nice editing options that the 640 doesn't have but editing out commercials is much easier with the 640. It used to be such a pain. It's actually sort of fun now.

Also, the XP quality is awesome. I recorded an IMAX HD nature show at XP to HDD, high-speed copied it to a DVD -R and played it on my Infocus 4805 at a 14' diagonal. The picture was way impressive. Significantly better than the 5045's best setting (HQ).

The 5045 has a slightly better pic at SP but I will give that up for the 640's XP quality. Quite important for backing up my family videos.

Also, the 640 improved the poor pic from an AMC broadcast of Frankenstein Meets the Wolf Man. I recorded to HDD at MN29, took out the commercials, then high-speed copied to DVD -R. I expected it to look awful on the Infocus 14' projection. I was amazed. I guess the Enhanced Faroudja DCDi Video processor on the projector did the rest after the 640 had done it's job during recording.

Also, just a hint. If you have a projector with an awesome processor then you may get a better pic by turning of your DVD players progressive output and changing it to interlace. I get a significantly better pic by turning this off on my Pioneer 588A when projecting on my 4805.

I love this recorder... except for the aggravation of it not playing lightly scratched disks or hanging up while playing them.

[QUOTE]

Kjbawc,
I tried that and it went into a real-time copy. Maybe I didn't do someting right.

If you have to change the recording quality from the hard drive version to fit it on a disc, it can't do that at high speed. One touch copy will default to real time. That might explain what happened.

[QUOTE=bphouston]

If you have to change the recording quality from the hard drive version to fit it on a disc, it can't do that at high speed. One touch copy will default to real time. That might explain what happened.

Was room for the recording, but after reading the manual (again carefully)
For the one touch copy:
"High speed copying is used when copying from the HDD to DVD. Playback continues while recording".
So what I am thinking that is real time copy is the playback (in real time) but it must be copying in high speed? Was not willing to sit an hour and half to find out!

It was mentioned here that the 640H-S is quiet?
Do you mean completely quiet?
I can hear mine when it is on.

Urlee

It was mentioned here that the 640H-S is quiet?
Do you mean completely quiet?
I can hear mine when it is on.

Urlee

You can slightly hear the fan running, but it's not bad at all.
Turning up the volume on the tv will help "wash out" the fan noise :D

Other than that, the unit is great!

Guess my posts are only appearing on my computer. Sorry they aren't visible to anyone else on this thread.

Anywho, I've decided that in view of the other great positives of the 640, I can live with the poor performance on scratched disks. (BTW, I've tried a 2nd new 640 and it basically had the same problem reading a scratched disk.).

It's annoying as heck but... I plan on playing my DVD's on a separate unit. This will eliminate the issue. The 640 hasn't shown any problems reading non-scratched disks. It did a great job of making high-speed back-up copies of DVD's made on my lite-on 5045. Didn't hick-up once on the couple of times I've done this.

You can slightly hear the fan running, but it's not bad at all.
Turning up the volume on the tv will help "wash out" the fan noise :D

Other than that, the unit is great!

ThanX BCF, That's exactly the noise and "cure" :)

I am beginning to think I bought an expensive DVD player?
Don't mean to cry on your shoulders but am trying to read the manual to figure out how to "run" it and maybe bit off more than this "old" senior can handle?
Start to read and in the middle they send you to another page which sends you to another page to explain the meaning of something I don't understand!
Have mercy!
I learned how to play a DVD movie, whew, but now want to see if my hard drive works?
You'd think it would explain in simple language but to me, simple is hard!

Better days ahead?

Urlee :confused:

ThanX BCF, That's exactly the noise and "cure" :)

I am beginning to think I bought an expensive DVD player?
Don't mean to cry on your shoulders but am trying to read the manual to figure out how to "run" it and maybe bit off more than this "old" senior can handle?
Start to read and in the middle they send you to another page which sends you to another page to explain the meaning of something I don't understand!
Have mercy!
I learned how to play a DVD movie, whew, but now want to see if my hard drive works?
You'd think it would explain in simple language but to me, simple is hard!

Better days ahead?

Urlee :confused:

Don't give up Urlee...
It looks harder than it is. All hard disk DVD recorders are complicated and while you may not believe it at this point, the Pioneer is a lot easier than several others... I had experience with several non-hdd recorders and I still had trouble with my first hard disk recorder. There are many features that you will use: a few often, some infrequently and some maybe never. There are some you will set once and forget about them. HDD recorders are complex machines but the day to day operations can be quite simple.

The unit is hard to break, so don't worry about experimenting with it.

Some recommendations:
1) Stick to Video mode as opposed to VR mode..
2) Set your Rec Mode to 2 hours (SP) and leave it there until you're comfortable with the other features.
3) Confine your recording to the hard disk. You can easily copy your hard disk recording to a DVD-R/RW.
4) The Disk Navigator button is your friend.
5) Don't worry about the video adjustments section until later.
6) Don't worry about timer recordings until later.

Not sure where you are in the setup/learning process...So...
Hooking It Up in your system...
Step 1 ) hook up your the output of your 640 to your TV's input with desired S-video or Component video and audio cables or RF. The 640 has a wide range of options here. If you can play DVDs on the 640 and see them on the TV then you've done this.
Step 2) hook up the output of your cable or Satellite set top box to one of the inputs of the 640. This can be RF cables, composite video or S-video and audio cables if not using RF. I recommend S-vdeo for better quality if that option is available to you. If you don't have a set top box, (but have cable) then hook the cable directly from the wall(?) to the RF in on the 640. Note: if you are hooking RF directly to the 640, you'll have set up the 640's tuner.
Step 3) Use the Input Select button on the 640 to choose the input that you hooked up in step 2. When you have done this correctly you should be able to see your TV signal as it passes through the 640 to the TV. If you are using the RF tuner in the 640, you should be able to switch channels with the 640's remote.
Step 4) Try recording something manually. Press Record button on remote. Wait a few minutes, press Stop Rec button on remote. Press Disk Navigator to show a list of your recordings on the hard disk. Press Enter to play the selected recording and it should start playing. At times it may be necessary to press Return button to get out of things.
Step 5) Try it, if you can do the above then... congratulations...you're in the game...

Keep us posted... ;)

ThanX BCF, That's exactly the noise and "cure" :)

I am beginning to think I bought an expensive DVD player?
Don't mean to cry on your shoulders but am trying to read the manual to figure out how to "run" it and maybe bit off more than this "old" senior can handle?
Start to read and in the middle they send you to another page which sends you to another page to explain the meaning of something I don't understand!
Have mercy!
I learned how to play a DVD movie, whew, but now want to see if my hard drive works?
You'd think it would explain in simple language but to me, simple is hard!

Better days ahead?

Urlee :confused:

Oldmanphil has some good advise there,
Remember that you can't teach an old dog new tricks was written by an old retied dog! Like the guy says, I anint old, I have just lived a long time. If you can remember where you put the DVR you have it made!

One little hint for recording that might confuse the heck out of you (I'm assuming that the 640 remote is similar to my 633 remote). There are actually two "stop" buttons on the remote. They both have a square icon, but one of them is a solid square and one is just the outline of a square.

The "solid" square is the "stop" you use when you're WATCHING a recording.

The "outline" square is the "stop" you use when you want to STOP RECORDING something.

The reason there are two of them is because you can start recording something, and while you're doing that you can hit the "Disc Navigator" button to list all your shows on the hard drive and start watching one of them at the same time.

One little hint for recording that might confuse the heck out of you (I'm assuming that the 640 remote is similar to my 633 remote). There are actually two "stop" buttons on the remote. They both have a square icon, but one of them is a solid square and one is just the outline of a square.

The "solid" square is the "stop" you use when you're WATCHING a recording.

The "outline" square is the "stop" you use when you want to STOP RECORDING something.

The reason there are two of them is because you can start recording something, and while you're doing that you can hit the "Disc Navigator" button to list all your shows on the hard drive and start watching one of them at the same time.

On the 640, there is now a button that says stop recording. The first time I tried to stop a recording, I kept hitting the stop button, and wondering why the heck it wouldnt stop, LOL. Then I saw that button.

Does anyone know if the DVR-640 is better than the DVR-633?
The reason I ask is that my 633 has been a nightmare. I have returned it to Pioneer on 5 occasions. They actually replaced the unit a month and a half ago and the new unit they gave me had to be sent in again since the hard drive crashed. Then after receiving the unit with a "new" hard drive, it immediately started failing again. I got fed up and told them I wanted refund or different but similar model.
They offered me the DVR-640. I am not sure if I should take the model considering all the problems I have had with it. I also have an Elite model DVR-65 and it has worked amazingly well for 2 years.

I am just not sure if the 640 will be another problem. It is also priced cheaper than the 633 which makes me wonder.

Also if anyone has the 640, are the 9 templates different from the other Pioneer recorder models?

Thanks

I got fed up and told them I wanted refund or different but similar model. They offered me the DVR-640. I am not sure if I should take the model considering all the problems I have had with it. Thanks

If they are willing to send you a 640 to replace your unit, I would recommend taking it. I have not experienced any of the problems that you mentioned you had with your unit...with my 640. It's also a way for you to get a new model for free, so why not go with it. I don't know if the unit you have (which you might replace with the 640) has a TVGOS in it or not, but the 640 does not and I have heard from many that it's a good thing that the TVGOS has been omitted.

Take the 640, you've got nothing to loose and will have a great unit in return.

Oldemanphil, You are a "GEM"!
Thank you sooooo much for your instructions!
I just tried my FIRST recording onto the HD & walla, "I did it", "I did it!"
Whew! Now maybe I can relax a little knowing it works.
Was worried in case it got bunged around during delivery & believing the HD is delicate, might have hurt it? (Signs pasted all over about it being so fragile)

I am on cable TV, (no box) and connected from the DVR output component jacks to the input of my TV component jacks via RCA component & Stereo Audio (5) cables which seem to be working alright.
I followed the Getting started instructions on page 30.

Bless you and this wonderful forum!!
Bless GHOST for starting this thread!

Sean, I just now seen your hint. Thank you so much!
I don't even remember what I did to stop playing?
I do remember hitting the Home Menu to get out of Disc Navigator.

Thanks so much,
Urlee

Does anyone know if the DVR-640 is better than the DVR-633?
The reason I ask is that my 633 has been a nightmare. I have returned it to Pioneer on 5 occasions. They actually replaced the unit a month and a half ago and the new unit they gave me had to be sent in again since the hard drive crashed. Then after receiving the unit with a "new" hard drive, it immediately started failing again. I got fed up and told them I wanted refund or different but similar model.
They offered me the DVR-640. I am not sure if I should take the model considering all the problems I have had with it. I also have an Elite model DVR-65 and it has worked amazingly well for 2 years.

I am just not sure if the 640 will be another problem. It is also priced cheaper than the 633 which makes me wonder.

Also if anyone has the 640, are the 9 templates different from the other Pioneer recorder models?

Thanks

I can't say for the 633, but
as second DVR user (I myself) would not hesitate to get the 640. While it may have some editing shortcomings, it is a very good unit. Most (if not all) of the problems that I have with the 640 have been operator error, or overlooking the manual. Been there done that on the push stop button and wonder why it didn't stop. Sean can tell you about the 633.

Using Double Layer Disks

Just got a couple of DL disks with the intention of copying 2 plus hour videos on them to keep from dividing the Title and using two disks in SP high speed copy mode. I'm hoping that the copy is automatic. Any suggestions on that?
My understanding is that if you record in SP then you can't high speed copy in another format to get say 2 hrs 15min on one DVD-R

Using Double Layer Disks

Just got a couple of DL disks with the intention of copying 2 plus hour videos on them to keep from dividing the Title and using two disks in SP high speed copy mode. I'm hoping that the copy is automatic. Any suggestions on that?
My understanding is that if you record in SP then you can't high speed copy in another format to get say 2 hrs 15min on one DVD-R

I don't know if you saw my post about getting both DVD's of Lord of the Rings: "Fellowship", Extended Edition (where the movie alone...without including extras...takes up two discs) on One DL DVD. I did it as an experiment and it worked out great.

In the meantime I made a chart as to how much time you can get on a DL DVD, in comparison to a single layered DVD per speed setting. If you set the Pioneer 640 for the SP mode, which will yield 2 Hours on a regular DVD, that same setting will give you 3 Hours and 43 Minutes on a DL DVD.

If you wanted 2 Hours & 15 Mins on one DVD DL, you could use setting MN 29 (which gives 1 Hour & 15 Min on a regular DVD) and you will get 2 Hours & 19 Mins, but in the same great quality that MN 29 would give on a single layered DVD.

They offered me the DVR-640. I am not sure if I should take the model considering all the problems I have had with it. I have had the 633 since December and the only real problems I have had were TVGOS related. I love the machine except that recently I have noticed that after disabling TVGOS using the Eureka method, when "EPG" occasionally comes back, timer events get skipped! Since you can't tell when the "EPG" problem will return this is unacceptible so I called Pioneer Canada today and they immediately offered to exchange my 633 with a 640 at no charge. I think this is great customer service. It may have taken a while, but lets face it, they had to come up with a replacement model.

I am jumping on the offer for the 640 replacement, as I found the 633 to be excellent with the exception of the TVGOS/EPG issue.

Curious: Other than the one hard drive crash, what were the other problems that caused you to return it 5 times? TVGOS, or other failures? (Are you aware that you shouldn't ever move the unit or cut its power when it's on or loading the EPG?)

Oldemanphil, You are a "GEM"!
Thank you sooooo much for your instructions!
I just tried my FIRST recording onto the HD & walla, "I did it", "I did it!"
Whew! Now maybe I can relax a little knowing it works.
Was worried in case it got bunged around during delivery & believing the HD is delicate, might have hurt it? (Signs pasted all over about it being so fragile)

I am on cable TV, (no box) and connected from the DVR output component jacks to the input of my TV component jacks via RCA component & Stereo Audio (5) cables which seem to be working alright.
I followed the Getting started instructions on page 30.

Bless you and this wonderful forum!!
Bless GHOST for starting this thread!

Sean, I just now seen your hint. Thank you so much!
I don't even remember what I did to stop playing?
I do remember hitting the Home Menu to get out of Disc Navigator.

Thanks so much,
Urlee

Congrats Urlee!! Just stick with it, and dont be afraid to try it. These things arent too easy to break by hitting the wrong button. And plus, if you do get stuck, you have all of these gurus around here to help you out!

Hi just bought a pioneer dvr-640 brilliant picture and superb hard drive, having a problem playing some movies (over 200) I ripped using dvd x copy and dvd x copy platinum I have recently tried dvd cloner 3 all ripped to tdk disks, some just don't play (around 30) but are fine on my old panasonic player and computer, I spoke to Pioneer who said its a hardware problem as the big dvd player manufacturers have done a deal with the movie studies to stop pirating which sounds plausible,
has anybody else had a problem playing ripped movies.

Rupotty? :)

I compared some of the features of the 531 to the 640 earlier in this thread in post #350. I expect the 633 differs from the 531 only by a larger HDD and front DV input since it shares the same manual.

Better is relative and it really depends on your needs are.

These are a few more differences between last years 531 & the 640 that I have noticed which may or may not bother you.

1) There is no IR controller on the 640 to change channels on your cable box. There are more alternative ways of doing timer recordings on the 640 but I kind of liked that old option BECAUSE you could set up 32 programs well in advance on the Pio unit and it would automatically change your cable box channel as long as you kept the cable box on (which can be problematic in a household of many). That meant I was not limited by my cable box's pathetic 8 timer recording options.

The new timer recorder options all limit me to setting up a maximum of 8 recordings at any 1 time & I find that restrictive.

2) During the initial set-up on the 640, you cannot adjust the audio input level. I could do that on the 531 (see p 93 of old 531/633 manual). I found that I needed to crank up the audio input of my cable box on L1 to the highest setting in order to have comparable volume when I was watching recordings from the 531. This is compared to watching the cable box alone and not routed through the 531. This is not an option on the 640, and it seems that they settled on the default level of last years models which was 0db. Despite the volume on my cable box being fixed at the maximum level, the audio is quieter when I watch a program through my 640 rather than just directly from the cable box. This means that the recordings are quieter too. That can be a nuisance if I want to play a DVD on a portable player in a noisy environment (i.e. my 2 toddlers in the back of a moving minivan). There are ways around this of course (headphones, FM transmitters, aux input. etc.) but these offer their own separate problems. It also means that you are frequently adjusting the volume if you have various inputs to your TV.

3) Can't combine titles on the hard drive, you can only do it on a disc (DVD-VR). This has been mentioned before but is worth mentioning again.

These features may not be an issue. I would still recommend the 640 to anyone buying their first DVR/HDD combo.

Despite the volume on my cable box being fixed at the maximum level, the audio is quieter when I watch a program through my 640 rather than just directly from the cable box. This means that the recordings are quieter too.
Here's some advice from Joseph Dubin to JakeN re: a possibly similar problem (it worked for JakeN)...I hope he doesn't mind me pasting his post here for you:

"Jake,

Adjust the audio output on your cable box to "other" (rather than HDMI or Dolby Digital) then the audio range to "narrow" (instead of wide or normal). This will increase the analog input going into your DVD recorder either directly or though a recording saved on DVR. When set to HDMI or Dolby (both digital) the volume is lower on non-digital sources like a DVD recorder.

When you don't want to record a program onto DVD re-adjust your settings back to the above for 5.1 sound from a live broadcast or DVR (just remember it will be lower should you decide you want to keep in on DVD).

- Joe"

Here's a link to the page his Post #367 is on (in case you want to go there also). (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=586960&page=13&pp=30&highlight=narrow)

I don't know if you saw my post about getting both DVD's of Lord of the Rings: "Fellowship", Extended Edition (where the movie alone...without including extras...takes up two discs) on One DL DVD. I did it as an experiment and it worked out great.

In the meantime I made a chart as to how much time you can get on a DL DVD, in comparison to a single layered DVD per speed setting. If you set the Pioneer 640 for the SP mode, which will yield 2 Hours on a regular DVD, that same setting will give you 3 Hours and 43 Minutes on a DL DVD.

If you wanted 2 Hours & 15 Mins on one DVD DL, you could use setting MN 29 (which gives 1 Hour & 15 Min on a regular DVD) and you will get 2 Hours & 19 Mins, but in the same great quality that MN 29 would give on a single layered DVD.

Thanks suplex.
I did read the post on “fellowship”. Most, if not all, of my recordings have been from cable TV to the HDD.
Question is if I record a program in SP then am I stuck with SP (only) for high speed recording to DVD? In other words do I have to record in the same mode that I wish to copy with. I get the impression that other speeds will be copied in real time. Is there a way to copy HDD to HDD on the 640? (don’t think so) Probably have to copy to RW disk and then back.

I have had no such problems. Could the problem be scratches on some of the discs? It seems that the 640 is very picky about light scratches according to the posts on this fourm and the pioneer web site. The other possibility is that if they are not NTSC, then they will not play. But it usually gives you an on screen message about TV signal incompatibility if that is the case.

Here's some advice from Joseph Dubin to JakeN re: a possibly similar problem (it worked for JakeN)...I hope he doesn't mind me pasting his post here for you:

"Jake,

Adjust the audio output on your cable box to "other" (rather than HDMI or Dolby Digital) then the audio range to "narrow" (instead of wide or normal). This will increase the analog input going into your DVD recorder either directly or though a recording saved on DVR. When set to HDMI or Dolby (both digital) the volume is lower on non-digital sources like a DVD recorder.

When you don't want to record a program onto DVD re-adjust your settings back to the above for 5.1 sound from a live broadcast or DVR (just remember it will be lower should you decide you want to keep in on DVD).

- Joe"

Here's a link to the page his Post #367 is on (in case you want to go there also). (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=586960&page=13&pp=30&highlight=narrow)



Thanks, much appreciated!

Thanks suplex.
I did read the post on “fellowship”. Most, if not all, of my recordings have been from cable TV to the HDD. Question is if I record a program in SP then am I stuck with SP (only) for high speed recording to DVD? In other words do I have to record in the same mode that I wish to copy with. I get the impression that other speeds will be copied in real time. Is there a way to copy HDD to HDD on the 640? (don’t think so) Probably have to copy to RW disk and then back.

I believe the best thing to do when recording a show on the HDD is to figure out how long it will be without commercials (an hour show is approx 45 minutes with no commercials, which would make a two hour show about 90 minutes [MN 26]) and record it at that speed on the HDD, then when you want to High Speed Dub it to DVD it will be ready to fill the disc for optimal quality.

You can copy from HDD to HDD by making a "backup" of whatever it is you want on the HDD again. I think if you go into "Copy" off of the "Home Menu" button it will mention "Disc Backup" as it's third choice (under HDD > DVD, and DVD/CD > HDD) there if you highlight that the text below it says: "Copy whole disc to another disc. Hard Disc Drive will automatically be selected."

So that is the section where you go to take something on the HDD and re-create it again on the HDD.

You can copy from HDD to HDD by making a "backup" of whatever it is you want on the HDD again. I think if you go into "Copy" off of the "Home Menu" button it will mention "Disc Backup" as it's third choice (under HDD > DVD, and DVD/CD > HDD) there if you highlight that the text below it says: "Copy whole disc to another disc. Hard Disc Drive will automatically be selected."

So that is the section where you go to take something on the HDD and re-create it again on the HDD.

Actually that is wrong. I just checked it and what I described above is how to take a removable disc and back that up on the HDD (which makes me wonder what the difference between that and "DVD/CD > HDD" is).

So I guess you were right, probably record it from the HDD to a DVD-/+RW, and then get it back to the HDD again.

The new timer recorder options all limit me to setting up a maximum of 8 recordings at any 1 time & I find that restrictive.Oh dear, that's not good news. I've had a number of occasions where I needed over a dozen shows on the schedule.

I can understand removing options like DV Input and cable blaster in order to lower the price by eliminating hardware that (hopefully) most people don't use. But limiting the number of scheduled shows wouldn't have lowered their manufacturing cost... it seems like a stupid move IMHO.

The new timer recorder options all limit me to setting up a maximum of 8 recordings at any 1 time & I find that restrictive.
The 640 still allows 32 timer programs. Here's the text from pg 38 of manual:

"Using the timer recording features you can program up to 32 timer recordings up to a month in advance. Timer recording programs can be set to record just once,
every day, or every week.

There are three ways to set a timer recording; using the Easy Timer Recording feature (see Easy Timer Recording on page 39), using the VCR Plus+ programming system (see Timer recording using the VCR Plus+®* programming system on page 40), or using manual timer recording (see Setting a manual timer recording on page 42)."

Not sure where the "8" came from...maybe 'cause it only shows 5 per page???

Oh dear, that's not good news. I've had a number of occasions where I needed over a dozen shows on the schedule.

I can understand removing options like DV Input and cable blaster in order to lower the price by eliminating hardware that (hopefully) most people don't use. But limiting the number of scheduled shows wouldn't have lowered their manufacturing cost... it seems like a stupid move IMHO.

to clarify:
you can still preset 32 recordings on the 640 which is fine if you are recording directly via the built in tuner.

But if you have a cable box, then you also have to set the cable box to the correct channel. If you are not home to change the channel then you are limited by the cable box. My cable box only has 8 preset timer recordings.

I usually set up as many recordings as I want using the timer recording on the 640, but I can only enter the 1st eight on my cable box. I have to try to remember to program the next batch of recordings on the cable box or else I get a black screen.

During the regular TV season, I can easily have eight weekly shows already filling my cable box options. With the 531, if I want to record a one time broadcast, I could enter the timer recording on the 531 and not worry about my cable box restrictions. I just leave the cable box on all the time. The 531 would switch cable box channels and I would have my recording. This is not an option on the 640.

So now I have the 531 and the 640 each with separate cable boxes and I will be hanging on to both setups to ensure maximum recording flexability.

But if you have a cable box, then you also have to set the cable box to the correct channel. If you are not home to change the channel then you are limited by the cable box. My cable box only has 8 preset timer recordings.Ah, (sounds of relief) ...now I understand.

I have a cable box too, and it's also limited to 8 recordings. But most of the recordings I make are from analogue channels, so I just record those directly using the my Pioneer 633's RF Input and tuner. I've rarely run into the case where I need more than 8 scheduled recordings for digital channels.

Whereas I make all of my recordings from the cable box because the analog signal is awful! And most of the channels I watch are not available to me without the cable box.

I just can't stand missing the shows that I follow. I rarely flick around channels when I watch TV. I have no patience for commercials. If I care enough to watch a show, then I don't want to miss an episode. The closest I have come to watching anything live was in chase play mode.

I have experimented with many recording options between the 531 and 640. I am annoyed that the autotitle does not work for timer recordings as it is the most reliable recording method for me. This seems to be a glitch that could hopefully be adressed with a firmware update but it seems more of an oversight as it doesn't work on either models.

VCR+ is only good for an anologue signal via the built in tuner.

The Autotimer option would overload my hard drive with the shows that other people in the household were watching that did not need recording.

My ideal recording setup is reliable, requires the least steps, does not require me to be present during the recording and autotitle works. The 640 is not much of an improvement for me with respect to those things. However, the timer recording menu is so much better on the 640 than the 531, and I can live with the rest.

[QUOTE]

Was room for the recording, but after reading the manual (again carefully)
For the one touch copy:
"High speed copying is used when copying from the HDD to DVD. Playback continues while recording".
So what I am thinking that is real time copy is the playback (in real time) but it must be copying in high speed? Was not willing to sit an hour and half to find out!


bphouston, yes, the HDD will playback in real time, while making a HS copy to disc. To know how long the copy will take, after you start copying, push the "display" button. If the graphic showing that recording has started is still on the screen, you will need to push it twice, because the first push will clear that graphic. But, you will get a display which will tell you how long the HS copy will take, and it reduces, to show how much time remaining to complete copy.

Guess my posts are only appearing on my computer. Sorry they aren't visible to anyone else on this thread.

Anywho, I've decided that in view of the other great positives of the 640, I can live with the poor performance on scratched disks. (BTW, I've tried a 2nd new 640 and it basically had the same problem reading a scratched disk.).

It's annoying as heck but... I plan on playing my DVD's on a separate unit. This will eliminate the issue. The 640 hasn't shown any problems reading non-scratched disks. It did a great job of making high-speed back-up copies of DVD's made on my lite-on 5045. Didn't hick-up once on the couple of times I've done this.

You could always try using a disc repair kit on your scratched discs, and then the 640 might play them. I don't have any scratched discs to try. My fear is that some of the discs I get that I would like to copy have paper labels stuck to them. I haven't tried any in the 640 yet, but in some players, they can jam.

I use two different players as my primary playback players, one is region free, the other is a megachanger, and both have component outputs to the A/V receiver, leaving no extra component input for the 640. But, more DVD players is often a good solution to playback problems!

If you need to handle PAL discs then you are out of luck with the 640.
Really? That seems like a pointless downgrade. Didn't the 633 handle PAL?

Add that to other downgrades (no DV input, eliminating the TVGOS rather than fixing it, etc.) and I'm looking more and more at the Toshiba XS-54, which word has it also allows for making menus with chapters.

Why wouldn't one prefer the Toshiba XS-54 (or in fact the RD XS-35 (http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&MSCSProfile=3C79F0C7EA3162B2B9AD68C2316B6FA163BB626107CB7B66 2A427645EBDE3C83BE184A5395425F5850F43F67D93EC62DD8B38A78B961 610379BD15CD1A8DF919AD94A8236CB907BF9343D7B3EDCC2233C38E3141 D6B5E6ACBC9F8D6E570C60A41408ECD4D55F07525D9BF6F86344F470D7BB 94A90D4A9823&sku_id=0926INGFS10073083&catid=22494) - what's the diference, BTW?) to the new Pioneer?

Really? That seems like a pointless downgrade. Didn't the 633 handle PAL?

Add that to other downgrades (no DV input, eliminating the TVGOS rather than fixing it, etc.) and I'm looking more and more at the Toshiba XS-54, which word has it also allows for making menus with chapters.

Why wouldn't one prefer the Toshiba XS-54 (or in fact the RD XS-35 (http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&MSCSProfile=3C79F0C7EA3162B2B9AD68C2316B6FA163BB626107CB7B66 2A427645EBDE3C83BE184A5395425F5850F43F67D93EC62DD8B38A78B961 610379BD15CD1A8DF919AD94A8236CB907BF9343D7B3EDCC2233C38E3141 D6B5E6ACBC9F8D6E570C60A41408ECD4D55F07525D9BF6F86344F470D7BB 94A90D4A9823&sku_id=0926INGFS10073083&catid=22494) - what's the diference, BTW?) to the new Pioneer?

Plplplpl
As a Toshiba XS32 owner, my experiece is that the 640 is much easier to navigate editing, HOWEVER, at a sacrifice of editing options. Don't know if they have changed the newer model Toshiba menus or not. An example is my 640 recordings in SP of over two hours have to be copied at real time to fit a DVD disk. Unless someone knows better, I can't reduce the size of the two hour programs (already recorded in SP) without copying in real time. You can HDD to HDD copy with the Toshiba.

Plplplpl An example is my 640 recordings in SP of over two hours have to be copied at real time to fit a DVD disk. Unless someone knows better, I can't reduce the size of the two hour programs (already recorded in SP) without copying in real time. .

You can of course do a high-speed copy HDD->DVD, of more than two hours at SP, if you use a DL disc. Or you can do the original HDD recording at a speed slower than SP, so you can do a HS copy to a single layer disc, without needing to change speeds during the dubbing process. I think the 640 even has a special speed setting that will timer record at just the right speed to fill a standard disc, if you select it. I only do Video Mode SP recordings myself, so my DVDs will play back on other players, so I haven't used that feature yet.

You can copy AVI files from CD to HDD on the 640?


Just for clarification...can you copy DivX files to the HDD?

And, what files can you copy to the HDD? jpeg, mp3s, and unprotected DVDs?

Thanks,
RF

Someone else will have to answer about the MP3s, and Divx, but j-pegs can be imported into the HDD, and copied to a new disc. Non-copy protected, pressed DVDs can be copied in real time. -R and +R DVDs, so long as they are single layer, can be copied at high speed to the HDD, and bit-for-bit copies made at HS.

Possibly you can do real-time copies of non-MPEG video material from disc to HDD. I seriously doubt more than that is possible, for example, bit-for-bit copies of AVI/DivX files to HDD from disc. DVD Recorders have a history of not allowing anything on the HDD that it did not create in the first place. It has to be able to understand the format, I imagine for editing purposes. Either that or it's just the industry's way of keeping DVD Recorders from turning into the copy-anything-anywhere-anytime devices we all want them to be. But we have PCs for that anyway.