Pioneer DVR 640h-S User Reports. [Text View] - Page 6

kjbawc

10-07-06, 01:47 AM

Boy is this embarrassing! :eek: After I have repeatedly mentioned that the 640 will not play PAL discs, I have just discovered that to be incorrect. The unit seemed to reject the first PAL disc that I gave it shortly after I purchased the unit. I guess I jumped to conclusions. However, I decided to try a some more PAL discs recently and there was success. Sorry about that!

Thanks, dvdiva! I'll try some R0 PAL discs in mine. I assume it won't play other regions, except R1 and R0.

Rupton,
I get that message all the time. I edit in Video Mode, in the HDD, at only 15 and 00 frames, and my edits don't move, but I still get the message when I make copy list entries, but not for all of them, and I have no idea why I get it for some, and not others. Don't worry about it, just do your edits on the key frames. If you edit in the HDD before making a copy list, you will be offered the choice of Video Mode Compatible, or "Frame Accurate" VR mode editing. Select the Video Mode, set your edit points in "Chapter Edit" mode, and it will automatically stop only on key frames. Set a chapter mark for your thumbnails there too, because "Thumbnail Set" doesn't force key frames, and those will shift, unless you are careful to use key frames.

kjbawc

10-07-06, 03:36 AM

wajo

10-07-06, 09:45 AM

Wabjxo, thanks for the photo viewer and juke box tests info. I haven't gotten around to trying those yet. I would like to copy photo CDs (j-pegs), in whole, and by importing individual j-pegs to make a new disc. Also, I would like to copy CDs, or individual songs from CDs, to the HDD, then to disc. Have you tried either yet? I know they would be on DVD, and wouldn't play on all players, or any CD players.
Copying jpegs and CDs is really easy.

I wasn't sure why I needed music and pics on my 640, but now that I've got some, it's sort of "neat." Anytime someone new visits, I can bore them to tears with an "instant" on-screen show of all the family photos! :cool: And I can play music w/o loading anything...sort of like having a multi-disc player, except on a "computer" already hooked to my audio system!

COPYING TO THE HDD: For anything on a CD, you can copy in real-time with One-Touch Copy (easiest, just start the CD playing, then press OTC button) or thru the Copy menu. I just walked away and did other things while copying.

The very best method for both jpegs and music is the USB method. If you already have them on your computer, and they're in JPG, WMA or MP3 format, copy them to a USB device...I used a Flash Drive...then copy to the 640 in high-speed....music anyway, not sure how "HS" my jpegs copied...42 minutes for 1.5GB of pics?

For new music not already on your computer, I'd recommend ripping the files to the computer first using Windows Media Player (or other app.), then copying to a USB device (Flash Drive?). The ripping is a high-speed process, so you can avoid any real-time copying with music. I'm copying a CD to the HDD now in real-time...pretty nice...music while I type...so guess it depends on your "mood" at the time? With a computer, you can also set compression rates, etc., which you can't do with the 640...stuff has to be "ready" as you like it in advance.

There's no way to copy just certain files to the HDD. You have to copy an entire CD or USB file. So, "apparently," you need to have just what files you want on a CD or USB before copying to the 640? However, I found it "very neat" that the 640 auto-searched ALL my folders on my flash drive, found ALL the jpegs, and put them on the HDD with the same file name and structure as on the FD (as it was on my computer). You can always Erase stuff you don't really want on the HDD.

There's a "COPY" function in the command panel, but that's for copying files between folders once on the HDD. You can also make new folders, change titles, etc. from that panel.

COPYING TO DVD: Can't copy music from Jukebox to a DVD. You CAN copy pics/jpegs to a DVD...press ENTER on a folder (or select files, can use Multi-Mode), press ENTER, and command menu pops up for multiple options, incl. Copy to DVD. Pics copy "pretty fast." The DVD copy will include the "Slideshow" feature, as well as the individual pics.

To answer your question, making a "custom" DVD with a variety of pics, you can create a New Folder and Copy specific pics or entire folders of pics...the ones you already have on the HDD... to that new folder, then just copy the new folder and you'll have a DVD with selected pics and an auto-start Slideshow. If the Slideshow's 30-sec/pic is too slow, you can FF or go back pic-by-pic with PREV and NEXT buttons.

TITLES: Music copied just gets a time/date entry, like a timer rec, but you can Edit to add your own title. Tracks are just numbered. Pics in PhotoViewer get the exact name and folder structure as on the USB device (or photo CD, which I didn't have to test, however).

PLAYING MUSIC: You can highlight an album or song to play, then press ENTER. There is also a "PLAY" button in the right-hand command panel, but you can't STOP the music if activated there...you have to press RETURN to get out of that menu entirely. If you start playing with ENTER, you can use the normal buttons, including STOP. You can also set up various "Play Modes" such as Repeat, change the order of tracks to play, etc.

PLAYING A SLIDESHOW OF PICS: In PhotoViewer, you can play a Slideshow by selecting a folder or a file, pressing ENTER, and selecting START SLIDESHOW. Pics appear and hold for 30 sec. You can press NEXT and PREV to advance or go back "quickly." If any of your pics are shot in "Portrait" orientation and show up sideways in the Slideshow, you can permanently rotate them in 90-degree increments by pressing the ANGLE button (top row under sliding door) as the pics appear during the Slideshow. If using the NEXT button to go thru a show quickly, you can do a rotation as soon as you see a sideways pic start to appear...you don't have to wait until the entire pic is developed on screen...the screen will go black for a few sec, then the rotated pic will "pop up."

STORAGE OF FILES: One "mystery" I had was, where is all this stuff being stored? I noticed that the Jukebox menu screens have their own "time/space remaining" indicators, so I thought they had their own, separate storage space. However, subsequently found that all content added to HDD reduces total space.

My current time/space readings show:

Video on Disk = ~20h
Space Remaining = 49h14m

Music on Disk = 38.06 min.
Space Remaining = 609h12m

WMA/MP3 on Disk = 71.2MB (just shows 17 tracks but I know size of files)
Space Remaining = 104.7GB

I couldn't find a similar "counter" in PhotoViewer.

Since my Disc Nav/HDD space remaining goes down slightly as I add music or pics, the "separate" counters in Jukebox and Disc Nav (video) are keeping track of remaining HDD space in terms that fit their "file" type: hrs/min for recorded video and CD music, and GB for WMA/MP3 files.

I just added 65 min. of CD music and my Disc Nav video counter went down 10 min.

Rupton23

10-07-06, 12:19 PM

Thanks ACPewty and kjbawc for all your advice. It's great having this forum to sound off and learn from the more experienced. That warning message had me wondering, but if it's nothing I can live with it.

Thanks again!
Bob

pokee99

10-09-06, 01:19 AM

ACPewty

10-09-06, 01:41 AM

Hi -

I copied my first VHS tape today (my wedding video!) and everything went well, except high speed copy did not work. I copied it from VHS to the HDD and then to DVD (so I could make multiple copies). I knew when I copied to the HDD it would take a long time (the length of the whole video - which in this case, was 27 minutes), but then when I went to copy it from the HDD to DVD, it still took 27 minutes. I copied from VHS to HDD in SP mode and HDD to DVD in SP mode. Why did high speed copy not work (it usually only takes me 6 mins or so to burn a whole DVD from the HDD)?

Thanks!It sounds like you selected SP as the recording mode when copying from the HDD to the DVD. You should select High-speed copy for the recording mode on the last copy screen.

It is possible to have the default of high-speed copy changed automatically by the 640 if you select more content in the copy list (before editing) than will fit on a DVD. (It will try to adjust the recording mode/bitrate to fit everything on the DVD.) As long as you have edited out enough so the entire copy list will fit on the target DVD, be sure to select "High-Speed" for the remording mode and the 640 will always copy bit-for-bit at the original bitrate...SP in your case. Anything other than "high-speed" will result in a real-time copy.

kjbawc

10-09-06, 03:03 AM

Hi -

I copied my first VHS tape today (my wedding video!) and everything went well, except high speed copy did not work. I copied it from VHS to the HDD and then to DVD (so I could make multiple copies). I knew when I copied to the HDD it would take a long time (the length of the whole video - which in this case, was 27 minutes), but then when I went to copy it from the HDD to DVD, it still took 27 minutes. I copied from VHS to HDD in SP mode and HDD to DVD in SP mode. Why did high speed copy not work (it usually only takes me 6 mins or so to burn a whole DVD from the HDD)?

Thanks!

Did you use the "Home Menu," selecy "Copy," then select "HDD-->DVD," select your title from the list that came up, select "next," then select either "Finalize," then "Copy," Or omit "Finalize," and just hit "Copy?" That procedure should transfer your HDD title to disc in High Speed, if there is enough space on the disc, using the speed that the title was recorded at. For a title of only 27 min., there should be plenty of room on a blank disc, at ANY speed!

bottlerocket

10-09-06, 09:39 AM

wajo

10-09-06, 10:11 AM

I got my 640 over the weekend and I've been having fun messing with it for a while now.

Very impressed at how easy it is to use and how you can do more than one thing at a time (unlike the accurian, i guess you get what you pay for).

Only question right now is about the picture quality of the tuner. It doesn't seem to be very sharp at all. For example, having my TV on the same channel as the 640 and hitting the input button to switch back and forth between the same channel, I can tell a pretty big difference in the sharpness. Not a big deal (still looks better than a VCR), but I was just wondering how to tweak the settings to make it look at little more sharper.

I'm using it on a cheap 20" magnovox tv, so that may be part of the problem right there.

But I'm very happy with my purchase. Thanks for all the info.
Strange that your PQ thru the 640 tuner is worse than straight TV. Mine is actually better and other have reported the same.

Before you tweak the video settings, I'd check the cables to make sure they're all good and connected tightly. Wiggle them, then switch or replace cables to make sure, etc. If you're using any splitters, switch connections on the splitter(s) or even remove the splitter just to check the PQ with straight TV vs the 640 tuner.

Then, if no joy, use the Video Adjust option in Home Menu. You can follow the instructions for tweaking starting on pg 106.

bottlerocket

10-09-06, 05:28 PM

maybe it has something to do with the long cable i have running from the plug to the tv area. they never seem to put the cable hookups in convenient locations in college housing.

but still, the tv signal without the player on looks fine. not sure why. i did notice that while the regular tv looks sharper, there's a little more noise than when viewing it through the 640. it softens the noise, but maybe a little too much.

i worked with the video settings for awhile, the only major difference i could make was with brightness. the tuner doesn't have the detail (or whatever they call it) slider like the playback video settings do. kind of weird.

wajo

10-09-06, 08:21 PM

I wish I could report that I solved the "pause" issue with edited/erased recordings on the 640, but so far, I've only been able to SEE what and where the pause is coming from.

For those interested in this issue, you can record a short segment of a broadcast program...I used 1-2 minute segments. On the original, go to Edit/Erase Sections, and use Video-mode Editing to erase several sections in a row, just a few seconds apart (close together 'cause you will be "scanning" the frame movement at each edit, and several in a row helps SEE what's happening).

While still in that edit menu, go back to the first edit point with PREV button. Press the REW button to go back 15 frames and watch the frame counter move. Press the FF button and watch the counter move back to the edit point. You should notice that the counter PAUSES at 14 or 29 before it moves on to the last frame, 15 or 00, at the edit point. You can press the FF and REW buttons around each edit point to see this "phenomenon" clearly...it may take several times before you get accustomed to seeing the pause.

Sometimes, going forward, the counter will pause at 14 or 29, then "stumble" past the edit point, (where it's supposed to stop) and move on to the last frame of the next GOP.

I've tried editing at all sorts of frames...13 and 28, 01 and 16… and in all modes...VR/VM HDD, Video- and Frame-accurate editing... but nothing changes the pause at the frame before an edit point. I've even tried to erase sections in the Chapter Edit menu, thinking it might make a difference…it didn't.

My tests have shown that HS copy of edited video results in slightly longer pauses, while RT copy shortens the pauses...probably 'cause it re-encodes the "orphan" frames left from our erasures, rather than HS "copying" those frames bit-for-bit... but there doesn't seem any way to get rid of them with our consumer-level DVD recorders.

Apparently, even computer SW programs created for MPEG-2 editing have problems. In this regard, I found this neat site and series of posts (http://forum.doom9.org/archive/index.php/t-91608.html) in which a "revered" guru, Taiwanese I think, talks about the I/P/B frame structure of MPEG-2 GOPs and the effects of editing, surely with more sophisticated equipment and SW than our consumer DVDRs have.

He even talks of "orphan" frames, which is what I believe our DVDRs are leaving when they erase a section.

(I say he's "revered" 'cause he developed an MPEG editing app. and several others posts following his are pretty clear these people have worked with him before on MPEG-2 editing and they think he's a "star.")

MrMike6by9

10-09-06, 08:28 PM

My new 640 just arrived this afternoon ... now I'll have to read this thread from the beginning .....

kjbawc

10-09-06, 08:45 PM

Just read the manual twice, then use the search function, or skim through, to find discussion on things you want clarified. Beats spending two days reading, instead of playing with your 640!

suplex

10-09-06, 08:54 PM

My new 640 just arrived this afternoon ... now I'll have to read this thread from the beginning .....

Don't drive yourself nuts reading this entire thread. Play with your Pioneer 640 first, trial and error kind of stuff, and then go from there. Any one of us will be happy to answer a question you might have, but just try out different things on your own and learn it as you go along.

Right off the bat I can tell you that you made a great choice with this machine, and you will really love it the more you get to know it.

franky932

10-09-06, 10:32 PM

AFTER 1 month still can not put thumbnails on each chapter i do in the HDD from a movie ( dish) and see all 6 or 7 thumbnail on the menu that a create with the finalize pic i have to chose. (like real commercial dvd)

i putt thumbnail at each chapter on the edit mode.

after copy (high speed) on the dvd.................. when read(playing) the dvd after just one thumbail on thre top.

tyvm

p.s. need help a have 14 dvd to do

kjbawc

10-09-06, 10:58 PM

You can only enter thumbnails for separate titles, not chapters. If you use "divide" in the edit menu, you can turn your chapters into separate titles. But, there will be a 2-3 second pause when they play through, from one title to the next.

bphouston

10-09-06, 11:06 PM

the unit will also cut off after a period of non use.

Sorry about that folks,
That must be not the case.
My unit stayed on until I cut it off yesterday.
edited post #1119

kjbawc

10-10-06, 12:05 AM

I was fooled a bit about that too. I think how it works is that it will shut off after a timer recording, even if it was on when the recording started, so long as you are not watching something from the HDD when the recording stops.

searchers

10-10-06, 01:14 AM

Just picked up my second 640HS yesterday. It will stay in the box, since I gather that Pioneer will not make any more DVR machines! I got my first 640HS 2 months ago, and have already made over 100 DVDs with it (mostly recording Turner Classic Movies to hard drive, then burning DVDs). It works flawlessly, and it does not have the undefeatable TV Guide feature that ruined the Pioneer 633H (otherwise this was a very good machine too). Both models were vast improvements over the 80G 520H, which had several flaws.

I have not tried any dual layer recordings yet - the blanks are too expensive. One of the great features of the 640HS is the ability to make perfect recordings with the far less popular DVD +R format. Over here I can buy 100 disc towers of TDK DVD +Rs for under $20 Canadian!

The only complaint I have with the 640HS is the remote control, which seems a backward step from the 633H remote. In fact, I basically use the 633H remote for all my 640HS work. The quick timer set-up works much better with the 633H remote than with the 640HS original remote.

Budget_HT

10-10-06, 01:42 AM

searchers

10-10-06, 02:40 AM

The biggest flaw was a stubborn inability to record anything over 115 mins at SP speed on the hard drive onto a dvd -R at SP speed. I always had to record the dvd at LP (4 hour speed - since the 520H did not have various optimizing disc speeds). I mostly record old movies from TCM, and I could never get a 118 min movie onto a dvd at SP speed. Also, quite frequently I would have to finalyze a disc 2 or more times to succeed. And finally, the 520H had a higher failure rate with some discs. My 633H and 640H have not failed with any discs, and I must have made 600 dvds between the two machines.

That being said, I must admit that I love Pioneer machines for anything to do with lasers. I have a Pioneer laser player from 1991 that has performed perfectly (I've used it for thousands of plays of laser discs and cd's), and another Pioneer Elite laser player that is still a reference machine for testing laser discs. I will miss Pioneer, if the rumors are accurate that they will cease producing DVRs.

Budget_HT

10-10-06, 04:20 AM

searchers,

Actually, the 520H has the same manual recording settings as the 640: MN settings like MN20 for 130 minutes. MN21 = SP at 120 minutes.

In nearly 2 years and hundreds of discs, I have not had any problem finalizing.

Of course the newer units can produce much better recordings up to 4 hours.

I was not wanting to debate anything here, but if you had an isuue that I have not encountered, it would help know what to watch for.

Urlee

10-10-06, 06:07 AM

I think how it works is that it will shut off after a timer recording, even if it was on when the recording started, so long as you are not watching something from the HDD when the recording stops.

It even shuts off by it's self when you had set the record button in blocks of 30 minutes to record your program.

The only thing the 640 doesn't do is make my dinner? :D

Urlee ;)

Geordon

10-10-06, 07:42 AM

Strange that your PQ thru the 640 tuner is worse than straight TV. Mine is actually better and other have reported the same.

My wife and I think the 640 Tuner through S-Video output is also better than the tuner in out Mitsu TV, though I wish it had ghost reduction like my JVC 9900 SVHS deck.

wajo

10-10-06, 09:00 AM

My wife and I think the 640 Tuner through S-Video output is also better than the tuner in out Mitsu TV, though I wish it had ghost reduction like my JVC 9900 SVHS deck.
Have you tried the Video Adjust settings...not sure if any of those would help get rid of ghosts...might need an exorcism? :)

nextoo

10-10-06, 10:02 AM

Very funny. Actually with ghosts (abscent of the exorsism mentioned) I would try changing cables. Many times I have been able to improve things with a simple cable swap.

ACPewty

10-10-06, 10:33 AM

Many times I have been able to improve things with a simple cable swap.I'll second that. Also, if you need cables I highly recommend Monoprice (an advertiser at the top of this page..when I typed this anyway). The quality/prices/value are excellent. I decided to try them because I like good cables but Monster cable prices annoyed me. I was very pleasantly surprised at how inexpensive (including international shipping) the cables were considering the quality. I will be buying all my A/V cables from them from now on. (You can use Paypal too.)

ACPewty

10-10-06, 01:13 PM

Just a warning for those that haven't encountered this yet:

If performing lots of editing using the copy list, be sure your program will fit on the intended target DVD type before you start. If you have to change the DVD type (perhaps to switch to DVD+R DL from DVD-R) the 640 won't let you unless you start the copy list over again!

I have been recording Deadwood from the History Channel and have been using MN23 which gives me the best bitrate to fit on a standard DVD after editing out the commercials. This worked great until this past week when the final 2 episodes ended up being longer than usual. I didn't know they were longer until after I completed my copy list editing and they wouldn't quite fit. I thought: OK, no problem I will just switch to a DVD+R DL and they will fit no problem. This ended up working, but I was forced start a new copy list and therefore redo all the editing out of commercials over again because the 640 told me when I inserted the +R DL that it was the wrong disc type. Arrgh.

I suspect if I had been using DVD-R DL I wouldn't have had a problem, but like most others I use +R DL because they are less expensive and more readily available.

I guess this is a good argument for editing on the HDD, but I try to only edit in copy lists whenever I plan to erase after copying to DVD in order to minimize HDD fragmentation. I know on a PC my HDD won't be more fragmented if I erase the whole file after editing, but I sure wish I knew for sure how the file system worked on the 640 so I could be confident about when fragmentation takes place...just in case.

Sean Nelson

10-10-06, 08:00 PM

This ended up working, but I was forced start a new copy list and therefore redo all the editing out of commercials over again because the 640 told me when I inserted the +R DL that it was the wrong disc type. Arrgh.

I guess this is a good argument for editing on the HDD, but I try to only edit in copy lists whenever I plan to erase after copying to DVD in order to minimize HDD fragmentation. I know on a PC my HDD won't be more fragmented if I erase the whole file after editing, but I sure wish I knew for sure how the file system worked on the 640 so I could be confident about when fragmentation takes place...just in case.I think it's pretty likely that the 633 and 640 share the same file system. I do all of the editing on my 633 directly on the HDD because I'm a little paranioid about situations just like the one you describe. Just as an FYI, in over a year of use and well over a couple of thousand "erase sections" from the beginning, middle and end of shows, as well as recording and deleting probably well over 1000 titles, I've yet to run into any issues that I would attribute to disk fragmentation.

ACPewty

10-10-06, 10:32 PM

I think it's pretty likely that the 633 and 640 share the same file system. I do all of the editing on my 633 directly on the HDD because I'm a little paranioid about situations just like the one you describe. Just as an FYI, in over a year of use and well over a couple of thousand "erase sections" from the beginning, middle and end of shows, as well as recording and deleting probably well over 1000 titles, I've yet to run into any issues that I would attribute to disk fragmentation.Thanks Sean, yes I think the most recent model I have heard about any fragmentation-retaled problems was the 520, but I figure better safe than sorry. Do you regularly "optimize" the drive on your 633 or 533, or have you decided to deal with it if/when you notice a problem?

Sean Nelson

10-11-06, 12:04 PM

Nope, I've never optimized the drive. I figure, "if ain't broke, don't fix it".

ACPewty

10-11-06, 12:17 PM

Nope, I've never optimized the drive. I figure, "if ain't broke, don't fix it".Is it fairly often empty, or do you typically erase programs after editing and copying to DVD? (As you know, emptying the drive would eliminate the need for defragmentation on a pc drive.) I'm just looking for evidence as to whether or not the Pioneer file system works like a pc file system.

Rupton23

10-11-06, 12:24 PM

jlin

10-11-06, 12:34 PM

Can someone tell me if there's a 'quick record' function.. if I want to record in 30-60-90 minute increment without having to stop the recording manually?

ACPewty

10-11-06, 12:38 PM

Can someone tell me if there's a 'quick record' function.. if I want to record in 30-60-90 minute increment without having to stop the recording manually?Yes, just press the record button again repeatedly for 30, 60, 90 minutes etc up to 6 hours.

ACPewty

10-11-06, 12:48 PM

Hi All,

Just a quick question: Aside from a price issue has anyone noticed a picture quality difference between single-layer DVD+R versus DVD-R discs?

I ask because I have been using DVD-R discs and have been very happy with them. I view my finalized discs on a JVC 27" (I don’t believe it’s a digital television but analog). However the other day I brought a couple of my burned discs to a friend's house and we played them on his 32" Sony Wega and his 51" Panasonic HD Plasma. I was shocked to say the least when I noticed quite a bit of digital disturbance. Not blocky pixilation, but very grainy picture quality- the image seemed to break down as it was playing (solid lines seemed alive and moving and not solid). I record all my discs in XP mode and make sure that they run less than 50 minutes a disc. Can anyone clear up this problem for me or is it just the nature of the beast. Analog disc playing on digital equipment?

Thanks, BobThere should be no difference in the picture quality based on the media type (+R vs -R) because the content is recorded digitally on both.

Playing low resolution 480i recordings on a large screen TV is usually a disappointment especially if you sit too close. Newer HD tvs often reproduce the flaws in low resolution 480i recordings a bit too efficiently as they are using many more lines of resolution to display only 480 or so...the upconversion can't actually increase the resolution, it just guesses what to do with the extra lines.

What you will notice with +R DVDs is playback on the 640 isn't quite as convenient as DVD-R because you can't get the quicker fast forward speeds you get with DVD-R DVDs.

kjbawc

10-12-06, 01:52 AM

Hi All,

Just a quick question: Aside from a price issue has anyone noticed a picture quality difference between single-layer DVD+R versus DVD-R discs?

I ask because I have been using DVD-R discs and have been very happy with them. I view my finalized discs on a JVC 27" (I don’t believe it’s a digital television but analog). However the other day I brought a couple of my burned discs to a friend's house and we played them on his 32" Sony Wega and his 51" Panasonic HD Plasma. I was shocked to say the least when I noticed quite a bit of digital disturbance. Not blocky pixilation, but very grainy picture quality- the image seemed to break down as it was playing (solid lines seemed alive and moving and not solid). I record all my discs in XP mode and make sure that they run less than 50 minutes a disc. Can anyone clear up this problem for me or is it just the nature of the beast. Analog disc playing on digital equipment?

Thanks, Bob

I record in SP, and play back on a 56" DLP HDTV. My discs look almost as good as the original (SD)program, and if I record in about Mn26, or higher, I can barely tell the difference from the original program. I think you are experiencing some other kind of a problem. Maybe your friend's DVD player won't handle the high bit rate well.

zhenerale

10-12-06, 09:00 AM

Is it fairly often empty, or do you typically erase programs after editing and copying to DVD? (As you know, emptying the drive would eliminate the need for defragmentation on a pc drive.) I'm just looking for evidence as to whether or not the Pioneer file system works like a pc file system.

The manual reads that it defragments like a PC (existing files remains intact) unlike the 2003 Panny E80 which removes all files. (Test it out first though).

ACPewty

10-12-06, 10:07 AM

The manual reads that it defragments like a PC (existing files remains intact) unlike the 2003 Panny E80 which removes all files. (Test it out first though).What page did you read that on? I wonder if what you read was in reference to the copy list which leaves original files intact when you edit out segments. I haven't seen anything in the manual that suggests how the file system works.

Here's what the manual says regarding fragmentation:

Optimizing HDD performance
As you record and edit material on the HDD,
the data on the disk becomes fragmented,
eventually affecting the recorder’s
performance. Before this happens, the
recorder will warn you that it is time to
optimize the HDD (which you can do from
the Disc Setup menu; see Optimize HDD
on page 105).
...
When the HDD needs optimizing the
recorder will automatically display a
message recommending optimization.

I figure better dafe than sorry. If it will warn me when it needs a defrag, that's good but it may not be at a convenient time for me. I would rather run it when there is little on the HDD so it doesn't take 8 hours or more, so I guess I'm in the proactive boat. Unless I find out for a fact that it works like a PC file system and it isn't necessary, I would rather heed their recommendation and optimize occasionally when there is very little on the HDD than suddenly find I can't watch or copy something important to me, or I am forced to run an 8 hour optimization and miss recording something. (I also take my car in for preventative maintenance rather than waiting until it dies.) ;)

zhenerale

10-12-06, 10:24 AM

What page did you read that on?

Page 105 "Optimize HDD" makes no reference of whether existing files remains intact or not. I inferred that it remains based on the following section (same page) "Initialize HDD" which clearly states that all files will be lost.

Again, try it out when you don't mind losing your files (or have backed them up already).

EDIT: In my earlier post, my usage of "reads" meant that is what is interpreted/conveyed. It was not "stated" in the manual.

ACPewty

10-12-06, 10:33 AM

Page 105 "Optimize HDD" makes no reference of whether existing files remains intact or not. I inferred that it remains based on the following section (same page) "Initialize HDD" which clearly states that all files will be lost.

Again, try it out when you don't mind losing your files (or have backed them up already).I would certainly expect that all files would be lost when you run the "Initialize HDD" function which I believe is either reformatting the drive or at least resetting the file system. That's a given, but I don't see how that provides any evidence that (like a pc file system,) after deleting an edited file the HDD is no more fragmented than before the file was saved/recorded. :confused:

vincentnyc

10-12-06, 10:45 AM

ACPewty

10-12-06, 10:48 AM

In my earlier post, my usage of "reads" meant that is what is interpreted/conveyed. It was not "stated" in the manual.Sorry, just realized you were referring to files remaining intact when optimizing. I think that is the goal of all defragmenting software. I'm still not sure why that would be evidence one way or the other? Are you suggesting the 640's file system works the same as a PC's file system because both retain files intact when defragmenting?

ACPewty

10-12-06, 10:56 AM

i just got this sweet device yesterday. i can watch one show and record another show.

i also record tv show on my pc to the pc's hard drive.

what is the best way to transfer video from pc to this pioneer dvr and vice versa? thx in advance.Are you trying to dub using cables, or high-speed copy?

Assuming your content is not copy-protected, the best would be to high-speed copy, but it is questionable as to whether you can do it. The only way I think you can do it is to burn the content to DVD-R or -RW in VR mode. The 640 can high-speed copy VR mode content to the HDD, but Video mode must be copied in real-time. (Video mode may be the easiest way but you will lose some pq because it has to be re-encoded.)

If you want to dub using cables, the best way would be to connect using an S-Video cable if you have an output on your computer's video adapter. You will probably also need an adapter for the audio since most computers just have a single stereo output jack and you need to split it into left and right channels for tyhe 640's inputs.

vincentnyc

10-12-06, 11:42 AM

Are you trying to dub using cables, or high-speed copy?

Assuming your content is not copy-protected, the best would be to high-speed copy, but it is questionable as to whether you can do it. The only way I think you can do it is to burn the content to DVD-R or -RW in VR mode. The 640 can high-speed copy VR mode content to the HDD, but Video mode must be copied in real-time. (Video mode may be the easiest way but you will lose some pq because it has to be re-encoded.)

If you want to dub using cables, the best way would be to connect using an S-Video cable if you have an output on your computer's video adapter. You will probably also need an adapter for the audio since most computers just have a single stereo output jack and you need to split it into left and right channels for tyhe 640's inputs.

acpewty: the second option using s video cable is not feasible, since my computer is in my bedroom and my dvr is in the living room.

in the first option, u basically say it can be done but then it can't cuz it need to be real time? im really confused here. so is there a way or not?

ACPewty

10-12-06, 12:08 PM

acpewty: the second option using s video cable is not feasible, since my computer is in my bedroom and my dvr is in the living room.

in the first option, u basically say it can be done but then it can't cuz it need to be real time? im really confused here. so is there a way or not?If you have software that can copy VR mode video to a VR mode DVD-R or DVD-RW, then I believe you will be able to high-speed copy to the 640's HDD. I haven't done it from a pc, but I have copied programs to a VR mode DVD and then high-speed copied back from DVD to the 640's HDD.

If you can't put the content in VR mode, then you can copy to a standard video mode DVD and real-time copy to the 640's HDD as long as it isn't copy-protected. Again, this means re-encoding so some pq loss will result.

zhenerale

10-12-06, 12:09 PM

Are you suggesting the 640's file system works the same as a PC's file system because both retain files intact when defragmenting?

Yes, because for my Panny E80, defrag entails loosing all your files. Thus to clean up my HDD on my E80, I need to copy all files that I want to keep first.

Keeping files intact for me means that it'll still be there.

I would imagine (I am ordering a 640, don't have one yet), that if you "delete" segments that it is removed from your HDD (space made available). Otherwise, if it is merely "hidden", fragmentation would not occur.

As the 640 manual said (as you quoted):Optimizing HDD performance
As you record and edit material on the HDD, the data on the disk becomes fragmented, eventually affecting the recorder’s performance. Before this happens, the recorder will warn you that it is time to optimize the HDD (which you can do from the Disc Setup menu; see Optimize HDD on page 105).

zhenerale

10-12-06, 12:12 PM

what is the best way to transfer video from pc to this pioneer dvr and vice versa? thx in advance.

Why are you trying to do this? Is this for viewing video files on a larger screen?

Have you tried an external HDD hooked via USB to your 640 for viewing on your TV/monitor?

Or are you looking to move video files from your PC to the 640 to edit?

Oldemanphil

10-12-06, 12:21 PM

ACPewty

10-12-06, 12:33 PM

Yes, because for my Panny E80, defrag entails loosing all your files. Thus to clean up my HDD on my E80, I need to copy all files that I want to keep first.

Keeping files intact for me means that it'll still be there.

I would imagine (I am ordering a 640, don't have one yet), that if you "delete" segments that it is removed from your HDD (space made available). Otherwise, if it is merely "hidden", fragmentation would not occur.

As the 640 manual said (as you quoted):Optimizing HDD performance
As you record and edit material on the HDD, the data on the disk becomes fragmented, eventually affecting the recorder’s performance. Before this happens, the recorder will warn you that it is time to optimize the HDD (which you can do from the Disc Setup menu; see Optimize HDD on page 105).Your Panasonic doesn't do a proper defragmentation. It actually does a full reset of the file system (not a full format) which is why you lose your files. This is one of the major complaints of panasonic users: users have lost recordings and had errors because their HDD gets fragmented and they have to reset the file system which causes loss of files.

I have learned here that the Panasonics use (or used) a linked-list file system which works much differently from a typical pc file system. This means deleting an edited file does not necessarily defragment the space the file occupied the way it does on a pc. I think since the Pioneer's don't seem to suffer from the same problems, the file system may be more like that of a pc, but I have no evidence other than the lack of reported problems.

Proper defragmentation retains all files on disk, but just moves blocks around so all the files are contigious from beginning to end...no more fragmentation. I don't think the fact that optimizing the drive on a 640 retains files and therefore works properly, means the file system definitely works just like a pc. (I wish it did, because then I would be more relaxed about doing all my editing on the HDD instrad of in copy lists.)

EDIT:

I would imagine (I am ordering a 640, don't have one yet), that if you "delete" segments that it is removed from your HDD (space made available). Otherwise, if it is merely "hidden", fragmentation would not occur. Actually it is the other way around. If the edited out content were just hidden, the file would not be fragmented. It would however be fragmented if the edited content were removed and the space was freed up for another file.

ACPewty

10-12-06, 12:34 PM

Why are you trying to do this? Is this for viewing video files on a larger screen?

Have you tried an external HDD hooked via USB to your 640 for viewing on your TV/monitor?

Or are you looking to move video files from your PC to the 640 to edit?USB on the 640 is only for the jukebox and photo viewer for music and images. You can't import or play video using USB.

ACPewty

10-12-06, 12:47 PM

Well I have "optimized" the HDD on my Pioneer 531H many times (at least 10 times) and have never lost any files. Of course the "optimize" runs much faster if there are fewer files on the hdd. I strongly beleive that the 640 works the same way. .. :cool:It does, I have run it on a 640 and the files were retained as expected.

The question is: If you record a program, edit out (on the HDD) commercials, copy to DVD and then delete the original program, is there no more fragmentation on the HDD than before the program was recorded like on a pc?

Or even simpler: Is there any point of running the Optimization on a 640 when the HDD is empty? There is On the Panasonics, but I think it is because they don't have an option to just defragment the HDD without resetting the file system.

bottlerocket

10-12-06, 03:30 PM

wajo

10-12-06, 05:10 PM

I just discovered that you CAN rotate pics in PhotoViewer, contrary to the NOTE in my last post on PhotoViewer and Jukebox (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8600961&&#post8600961).

While playing a Slideshow, when a pic comes up that is rotated sideways, pressing the ANGLE button (under the sliding door of the remote, top row) rotates the pic in 90-degree increments. A rotated pic then stays in that orientation "permanently" so you only have to rotate a pic one time.

(I'm going to correct the NOTE in my prior post.)

vincentnyc

10-12-06, 08:12 PM

bottlerocket

10-12-06, 08:42 PM

yes, you can edit (take out commercials & so on) and set up the timer while recording a tv show. i haven't had any problems doing so.

ACPewty

10-12-06, 10:44 PM

The 640 tells you when you need to optimize (like a computer does), so don't worry about it until you need to.

If you want to do it because you have nothing better to do, or you're paranoid, do it. What's the big deal?I don't think anyone was making a big deal out of anything. I have been curious about whether or not fragmentation exists even after deleting heavily edited files the way it does on Panasonic DVDRs.

I have read a few reports of fragmentation problems from owners of older Pioneers (520s I think) which resulted in an inability to watch or copy recorded programs. I think it is reasonable to assume the 640 file system is similar and since 520s are only a few years old, maybe with enough use this could happen to a 640 sooner or later. I don't know if 520s also had a warning when the HDD is heavily fragmented, but as I have already posted I think it is wise to optimize the drive when it is convenient for me, (like at times when there is not much on the HDD,) so I don't get caught having to optimize when the HDD has lots on it and therefore it may take 8 hours or more. That in itself IMHO is reason enough to take a proactive stance, and hardly deserves the paranoia label since you can't watch or record anything during optimization, and I don't know for sure if the warning will come before it is too late.

If I knew the 640s file system worked like a PC rather than like a Panasonics file system, then I would be confident that optimization would rarely be necessary on my 640s because I usually delete programs from the HDD after editing and copying to DVD.

vincentnyc

10-13-06, 12:36 AM

ACPewty

10-13-06, 01:11 AM

ok here is my current setup.

my westinghouse 37" inch tv that has no tv tuner, an analog cable box (ge 2200) w/ only rf and 1 rca output, and this pioneer dvr 640.

i have a signal splitter, one is going into the cable box and one into the pioneer dvr 640. the component of the dvr is connected to the westy tv and also the output of rca(white and red) is connected from dvr to tv. the output of rca on cable is going to the tv which only has 1 rca.

right now the dvr isn't detecting other channels that my cable can detect like hbo, max, mtv, vh1, national geographic. my dvr is only able to detect about 15 or so channel like nbc, cbs, fox, tnt, tbs, food channel etc. while my cable has like 70 or more channel.

so my question is, can i connect these euipment so i can record my other channel like hbo, max, mtv etc.? is this possible? if so how? i read the manual and it said it can, but my tv doesn't have a rf which is in the diagram on the manual. and it also said it can only record what u watching, but not able to record one show and watch another? if this is true...is there any way around?

please someone help me out...im really bum out that i cant record show like hbo, national geographic, vh1 etc.If I understand you correctly, in order to be able to record all channels you should connect the composite (rca) from the cable box to the L1 input on the 640 DVDR. You can then continue to use component from the 640 to the TV. This will allow you to record all channels by leaving the 640 set on the L1 input and changing channels with the cable box, but unfortunately it means the 640 will have to be on when just watching TV. To avoid that, you would either have to get a cable box with another output, or use an A/V Receiver/switcher that can output the cable box signal to both your TV and the 640.

kjbawc

10-13-06, 01:33 AM

ok here is my current setup.

my westinghouse 37" inch tv that has no tv tuner, an analog cable box (ge 2200) w/ only rf and 1 rca output, and this pioneer dvr 640.

i have a signal splitter, one is going into the cable box and one into the pioneer dvr 640. the component of the dvr is connected to the westy tv and also the output of rca(white and red) is connected from dvr to tv. the output of rca on cable is going to the tv which only has 1 rca.

right now the dvr isn't detecting other channels that my cable can detect like hbo, max, mtv, vh1, national geographic. my dvr is only able to detect about 15 or so channel like nbc, cbs, fox, tnt, tbs, food channel etc. while my cable has like 70 or more channel.

so my question is, can i connect these euipment so i can record my other channel like hbo, max, mtv etc.? is this possible? if so how? i read the manual and it said it can, but my tv doesn't have a rf which is in the diagram on the manual. and it also said it can only record what u watching, but not able to record one show and watch another? if this is true...is there any way around?

please someone help me out...im really bum out that i cant record show like hbo, national geographic, vh1 etc.

Your 640 can only tune the channels that aren't scrambled, from the RF input. Run the cable box RCA line outs to your 640, and run RF from your cable box to your TV. That way, you can watch and hear TV, all channels, with the 640 off. To record the scrambled channels from the cable box, you will use the line inputs (L3), and the box will have to be on, and set to the channel you want to record. You can record the non-scrambled channels from the RF input to the 640. Be warned, that you will probably have to watch your cable box through the 640 to get stereo, since that usually isn't carried on the converted RF out from the cable box.

kjbawc

10-13-06, 02:11 AM

another question...while the recorder is recording a tv show. can i go into setting like set up another time to record a show, edit a show like deleting a commercial? or i have to wait till the recording is done in order for me to do above?

You can do all those. You can even record a show to disc in High Speed, while recording another show on the HDD! But, you can't finalize a disc while recording to HDD. Also, if you are editing when the 640 goes into standby, two minutes before a timer recording starts, you will lose the editing screen. If you were in the process of entering a title, but had not completed it, that will be lost, and you will have to enter it again.

Much to my surprise, I discovered that you can do the entire "disc backup" process while recording to HDD. That means recording the disc to the HDD, then HS copying it to a new disc!

Urlee

10-13-06, 08:30 AM

vincentnyc

10-13-06, 09:12 AM

Your 640 can only tune the channels that aren't scrambled, from the RF input. Run the cable box RCA line outs to your 640, and run RF from your cable box to your TV. That way, you can watch and hear TV, all channels, with the 640 off. To record the scrambled channels from the cable box, you will use the line inputs (L3), and the box will have to be on, and set to the channel you want to record. You can record the non-scrambled channels from the RF input to the 640. Be warned, that you will probably have to watch your cable box through the 640 to get stereo, since that usually isn't carried on the converted RF out from the cable box.

one problem, if u read my post CAREFULLY, my tv DOESN'T have a RF! so what now?

vincentnyc

10-13-06, 09:19 AM

If I understand you correctly, in order to be able to record all channels you should connect the composite (rca) from the cable box to the L1 input on the 640 DVDR. You can then continue to use component from the 640 to the TV. This will allow you to record all channels by leaving the 640 set on the L1 input and changing channels with the cable box, but unfortunately it means the 640 will have to be on when just watching TV. To avoid that, you would either have to get a cable box with another output, or use an A/V Receiver/switcher that can output the cable box signal to both your TV and the 640.

what a/v reciever/switcher that u recommend. links would greatly appreciate it. cuz i brought this radio shack selector the other day...im not sure if it is a a/v recieve/switcher. can u please let me know? here is the link to the radio shack selector specs.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?parentPage=search&summary=summary&techSpecs=techSpecs&currentTab=summary&cp=&custRatings=custRatings&features=features&accessories=accessories&productId=2049647&origkw=selector&support=support&kw=selector&tab=techSpecs

is that correct receiver? i try to plug in everything the other nite with the receiver...but nothing work. maybe i plug in incorrectly...please let me know what is the correct setup? thanks.

wajo

10-13-06, 09:26 AM

Anyone have trouble with the 640 not knowing you inserted a blank disc in, when you are getting ready to copy?
It kept telling me to insert a disc and showed no disc? Maxell DVD-R.
I put a -RW in and that took.
Later I inserted a different Maxell DVD-R and it continued on for me to copy OK.
I've had that happen B4, thinking I had to wait for it to load and finally it went on, but I waited for ever and it still kept telling me to load a recordable disc?
Disc or machine flaw?

Also, on the recorder, it showed MN where it used to be SP on the front panel.
Does that only mean I am capable of using MN and NOT actually copying in MN when I am copying an SP recording from the HHD?
I've seen that message when I had two discs in the tray by mistake.

On MN...If you used an MN speed last, that speed will show up even in a Timer Rec menu, but you can get back to XP, SP, etc. with the Rec Mode button. Once you select SP, that's the "default" again until you use another MN.

When you want another MN, use Rec Mode button to get to MNXX...the "default" you picked in that complex-looking menu... then use the left-right arrow buttons to stay in and go thru all the MN speeds from MN1 thru MN32 and LPCM.

zhenerale

10-13-06, 09:28 AM

vincentnyc needs a switch that accepts RF video input to pass via RCA output as his TV (actually a monitor) has no RF input nor TV tuner.

He is seeking to be able to record off his Cable Box (for HBO, etc) and watch Basic Cable and vice versa.

The vice versa means he needs a switch (unless he wants to manually re-wire each time).

He just needs the correct switch that accepts RF to output via RCA.

A thorough exhaustive dialogue is in the "dvr w/o monthly subscription?" thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=729527&page=1&pp=40)

Let's keep this line of dialogue to that thread and keep this thread solely on the 640.

If other members can kindly chime in there as vincentnyc hasn't had much input on his matter. A "second opinion" other than mine is what he needs.

vincentnyc

10-13-06, 09:29 AM

USB on the 640 is only for the jukebox and photo viewer for music and images. You can't import or play video using USB.

i read in the manual where it said there is a feature where u can copy dvd to hdd. so if i burn the movie to the dvd from my computer, i can transfer it to the hdd on the pioneer right?

ACPewty

10-13-06, 10:48 AM

what a/v reciever/switcher that u recommend. links would greatly appreciate it. cuz i brought this radio shack selector the other day...im not sure if it is a a/v recieve/switcher. can u please let me know? here is the link to the radio shack selector specs.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?parentPage=search&summary=summary&techSpecs=techSpecs&currentTab=summary&cp=&custRatings=custRatings&features=features&accessories=accessories&productId=2049647&origkw=selector&support=support&kw=selector&tab=techSpecs

is that correct receiver? i try to plug in everything the other nite with the receiver...but nothing work. maybe i plug in incorrectly...please let me know what is the correct setup? thanks.Looks like that unit from Radio Shack is intended for a TV with a tuner. Wrong choice.

Is the RF output on your cable box just a pass-through, or does it output the selected channel? (ie Does the cable box have a ch3 or ch4 switch on the back?)
If it does and you don't want to spend money on more equipment, hook up the RF output from the cable box to the 640's RF-In, and leave the 640 tuned to ch 3 all the time, changing channels with the cable box. Continue to run the composite (RCA) cables from the cable box to the TV and then you can watch TV without the 640 having to always be on by switching the TV's inputs. (This may be the least expensive solution, but not necessarily the best for pq or the most convenient since you have to switch inputs on the TV.)
Also, with this setup you can only watch one channel while recording another if the channel being recorded is unscrambled.

When I referred to an A/V Receiver/switcher, I mean a Home theater receiver/amplifer or that has video inputs and outputs as well as audio. It'll cost more, but you get the switching you need by remote control plus you will typically also get dolby surround etc. Here's an relatively inexpensive recommendation (http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/538449532) , but my guess is this is more than you had in mind.

Still, I would recommend you look into a cable box with more outputs, preferably with s-video, because even with an A/V Receiver you will have to select the cable box input on the A/V Receiver in order to record anything scrambled. If you have a cable box with more outputs you can connect the cable box to the 640 separately so the TV or A/V Receiver isn't always occupied while you record programs. S-video will give you better pq also.

ACPewty

10-13-06, 10:55 AM

i read in the manual where it said there is a feature where u can copy dvd to hdd. so if i burn the movie to the dvd from my computer, i can transfer it to the hdd on the pioneer right?Yes, with a few considerations which were explained yesterday in post# 1305.

vincentnyc

10-13-06, 11:10 AM

Looks like that unit from Radio Shack is intended for a TV with a tuner. Wrong choice.

Is the RF output on your cable box just a pass-through, or does it output the selected channel? (ie Does the cable box have a ch3 or ch4 switch on the back?)
If it does and you don't want to spend money on more equipment, hook up the RF output from the cable box to the 640's RF-In, and leave the 640 tuned to ch 3 all the time, changing channels with the cable box. Continue to run the composite (RCA) cables from the cable box to the TV and then you can watch TV without the 640 having to always be on by switching the TV's inputs. (This may be the least expensive solution, but not necessarily the best for pq or the most convenient since you have to switch inputs on the TV.)
Also, with this setup you can only watch one channel while recording another if the channel being recorded is unscrambled.

When I referred to an A/V Receiver/switcher, I mean a Home theater receiver/amplifer or that has video inputs and outputs as well as audio. It'll cost more, but you get the switching you need by remote control plus you will typically also get dolby surround etc. Here's an relatively inexpensive recommendation (http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/538449532) , but my guess is this is more than you had in mind.

Still, I would recommend you look into a cable box with more outputs, preferably with s-video, because even with an A/V Receiver you will have to select the cable box input on the A/V Receiver in order to record anything scrambled. If you have a cable box with more outputs you can connect the cable box to the 640 separately so the TV or A/V Receiver isn't always occupied while you record programs. S-video will give you better pq also.

my cable box doesn't ch3 or ch4 or an s-video in the back.

so let me get this clear...even if i get the a/v receiver u recommended and hook everything up with my current cable box. i can't watch another channel while recording another channel? or i can't watch premium channel like hbo, mtv, vh1, while i record them but i can with basic channel like cbs, nbc, fox? im not a tech person...so please elaborate before i spend more money than i want. thanks.

zhenerale

10-13-06, 11:52 AM

... hook up the RF output from the cable box to the 640's RF-In, and leave the 640 tuned to ch 3 all the time, changing channels with the cable box. Continue to run the composite (RCA) cables from the cable box to the TV and then you can watch TV without the 640 having to always be on by switching the TV's inputs.

This entails vincentnyc to manually swap wiring which is cumbersome. He needs a switch that accepts RF in and passes out via RCA. (He has a cable box that outputs scrambled channels, I refer to all of them as "HBO" and he wants to be able to record HBO on his 640 while watching "basic cable" and vice versa, I would imagine without having to manually change his wiring each time)

Still, I would recommend you look into a cable box with more outputs, preferably with s-video, because even with an A/V Receiver you will have to select the cable box input on the A/V Receiver in order to record anything scrambled. If you have a cable box with more outputs you can connect the cable box to the 640 separately so the TV or A/V Receiver isn't always occupied while you record programs. S-video will give you better pq also.

Another cable box is not an option for vincentnyc :rolleyes: (need to read other thread)

ACPewty

10-13-06, 11:52 AM

my cable box doesn't ch3 or ch4 or an s-video in the back.

so let me get this clear...even if i get the a/v receiver u recommended and hook everything up with my current cable box. i can't watch another channel while recording another channel? or i can't watch premium channel like hbo, mtv, vh1, while i record them but i can with basic channel like cbs, nbc, fox? im not a tech person...so please elaborate before i spend more money than i want. thanks.Try it first to make sure using RF from the cable box to the 640. Switch the 640 to channel 3 (you may have to add channel 3 using the 640's Initial Setup...Tuner menu item) and then change channels to a premium channel with the cable box. If that works, you can do most of what you want without buying anything.

Your 640 cannot tune scrambled channels, so if you want to watch one channel while recording another, the channel being recorded cannot be scrambled.

Assuming the above suggestion works and the cable box's RF output is not a pass-through, you can watch and record the same scrambled channel, or you can watch a scrambled channel (on TV via RCA composite cable) while recording an unscrambled channel using the 640's tuner if you use your splitter as you did initially before connecting to the input of the cable box and the 640. This would of course require changing cable connections and is therefore inconvenient which is why I recommend a cable box with more outputs so you can feed both the TV and the 640 from the cable box and still use the splitter to feed the cable box and the 640 with RF.

If you don't mind spending more money on an A/V Receiver and a new cable box, that IMHO is the best and most convenient setup because you get surround sound and if connected correctly you only have to switch the input source on the A/V receiver to watch or listen to whatever you want. If however you want to watch and record different channels, the same restrictions will apply unless you get a 2nd cable box to unscramble a 2nd premium channel for the 640.

zhenerale

10-13-06, 12:07 PM

ACPewty

10-13-06, 12:52 PM

I hate continuing this here on this thread...

A switch, one that converts RF to RCA (as vincentnyc's "TV" (a monitor) does not have a TV tuner nor RF input) would eliminate manually re-wiring each time.Agreed. I'm not really recommending he do that, just saying it's the only possible way to watch and record different shows simultaneously without spending more money.

Even if vincentnyc doesn't want to upgrade equipment, I wonder how much of an issue tuning 2 channels simultaneously will really be once he really starts using his 640 a lot. I find I rarely watch anything live anymore because I am spoiled by commercial skip, so I often record while watching a previously recorded program from the 640's HDD. I am on satellite, so you can only tune one channel per sat receiver at a time and that used to be more of a problem, but not so much since I got my 640s, especially with the time-shifting of network feeds from different time zones.

vincentnyc

10-13-06, 01:02 PM

so with my current setup now...can i watch a show that was recorded on my pioneer while the dvr is recording another show?

vincentnyc

10-13-06, 01:06 PM

Try it first to make sure using RF from the cable box to the 640. Switch the 640 to channel 3 (you may have to add channel 3 using the 640's Initial Setup...Tuner menu item) and then change channels to a premium channel with the cable box. If that works, you can do most of what you want without buying anything.

Your 640 cannot tune scrambled channels, so if you want to watch one channel while recording another, the channel being recorded cannot be scrambled.
....
.

ok i get the part where an rf from my cable box will connect to 640. my dvr is already ch 3...

and i can turn to channel 3 from my remote on my dvr..so i have ch3 on my dvr.

now u still missing the rest of the setup. how is my dvr gonna connect to tv now? what about the rca on the cable box? does that have to connect to anything? what about rca and component on my dvr...does that have to connect to anything? please elaborate since im incompetant in the field of audio and video.

zhenerale

10-13-06, 01:15 PM

Agreed. I'm not really recommending he do that, just saying it's the only possible way to watch and record different shows simultaneously without spending more money.

Even if vincentnyc doesn't want to upgrade equipment, I wonder how much of an issue tuning 2 channels simultaneously will really be once he really starts using his 640 a lot. I find I rarely watch anything live anymore because I am spoiled by commercial skip, so I often record while watching a previously recorded program from the 640's HDD. I am on satellite, so you can only tune one channel per sat receiver at a time and that used to be more of a problem, but not so much since I got my 640s, especially with the time-shifting of network feeds from different time zones.

There will be times where a viewer wants to "see" two concurrent programs. The way around that is to record one and watch the other one "live".

This is what vincentnyc is trying to do.

Try it first to make sure using RF from the cable box to the 640. Switch the 640 to channel 3 (you may have to add channel 3 using the 640's Initial Setup...Tuner menu item) and then change channels to a premium channel with the cable box. If that works, you can do most of what you want without buying anything.

This setup only allows you to record/watch whatever is coming from the 640.

Vincentnyc, this is not what you are looking for.

ACPewty

10-13-06, 01:35 PM

so with my current setup now...can i watch a show that was recorded on my pioneer while the dvr is recording another show?Yes, if you can record a show on the 640, you can watch any previously recorded program (or currently recording program with chase play,) from the HDD or DVD simultaneously.

vincentnyc

10-13-06, 01:51 PM

There will be times where a viewer wants to "see" two concurrent programs. The way around that is to record one and watch the other one "live".

This is what vincentnyc is trying to do.

This setup only allows you to record/watch whatever is coming from the 640.

Vincentnyc, this is not what you are looking for.

but what about getting the av reciever that ACPewty recommend...will that allow me to record scramble channel while viewing basic channel and vice versa?

with the av reciever...i cant view another scramble channel while recording a scramble channel right?

so u have any other reciever u guys recommend that is cheaper than that one ACPewty recommend?

zhenerale

10-13-06, 02:02 PM

but what about getting the av reciever that ACPewty recommend...will that allow me to record scramble channel while viewing basic channel and vice versa?

That will be instead of your switch which is $50. Do you want to spend more for better sound (you'll need speakers too) or leave it to your Monitor.

with the av reciever...i cant view another scramble channel while recording a scramble channel right?

NO!, you'll need a second cable box to get two scrambled channels at a time.

The AV receiver is merely acting as your switch.

ACPewty

10-13-06, 02:04 PM

ok i get the part where an rf from my cable box will connect to 640. my dvr is already ch 3...

and i can turn to channel 3 from my remote on my dvr..so i have ch3 on my dvr.

now u still missing the rest of the setup. how is my dvr gonna connect to tv now? what about the rca on the cable box? does that have to connect to anything? what about rca and component on my dvr...does that have to connect to anything? please elaborate since im incompetant in the field of audio and video.As I already said, leave the other cables the same as you had them: component from 640 to tv and rca from cable box to tv. This does not allow you to watch and record 2 different channels at the same time without switching RF cables around, it just means you can watch/record scrambled channels when the 640 is on, and watch TV with the 640 off.

ACPewty

10-13-06, 02:07 PM

There will be times where a viewer wants to "see" two concurrent programs. The way around that is to record one and watch the other one "live".

This is what vincentnyc is trying to do.I realize that. I am just trying to give him his options for his limited equipment because I suspect he doesn't want to spend too much.

If you look up redundant in the dictionary, it says: "See Redundant".

ACPewty

10-13-06, 02:13 PM

but what about getting the av reciever that ACPewty recommend...will that allow me to record scramble channel while viewing basic channel and vice versa?

with the av reciever...i cant view another scramble channel while recording a scramble channel right?

so u have any other reciever u guys recommend that is cheaper than that one ACPewty recommend?It's simple: The 640 does have a tuner which uses RF-IN, but it cannot tune scrambled channels. If you want to view and record 2 scrambled channels at the same time, you have to have 2 cable boxes that can descramble 2 signals.

I agree with zhenerale, this discussion should be moved to the other thread. I didn't realize there was already a thread for this topic.

wajo

10-13-06, 02:14 PM

Talk about "redundant"!

The "other thread" (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=729527) has 108 posts on the same narrow subject (single-user-setup), and 135 total with the ones in this thread.

I'm beginning to think zhenerale has the patience of a saint!?

Budget_HT

10-13-06, 03:25 PM

...
I'm beginning to think zhenerale has the patience of a saint!?
I was just thinking exactly the same thing!

zhenerale

10-13-06, 03:28 PM

I was just thinking exactly the same thing!

Thank you.

May the Lord Bless You. :) :D ;)

Urlee

10-13-06, 05:25 PM

I want to order some DVR-R for my Pio 640 as I have been only using Maxell brand.

Taiyo Yuden or Verbatims? Which is the best?
What X is best? 4x or 8x? etc.

Thanks so much,
Urlee

ACPewty

10-13-06, 05:32 PM

I want to order some DVR-R for my Pio 640 as I have been only using Maxell brand.

Taiyo Yuden or Verbatims? Which is the best?
What X is best? 4x or 8x? etc.

Thanks so much,
UrleeI have been using Verbatim 16x exclusively (except for a few Verbatim -R DL) on my 640s and still haven't had a single problem. (I always high-speed copy...8 minutes for a full DVD) They're on special at Staples (in Canada) this week: 100 for CDN $29.99. :)

Urlee

10-13-06, 06:18 PM

I have been using Verbatim 16x exclusively (except for a few Verbatim -R DL) on my 640s and still haven't had a single problem. (I always high-speed copy...8 minutes for a full DVD) They're on special at Staples (in Canada) this week: 100 for CDN $29.99. :)

I can't get to Staples in Canada?
I keep getting the page which says:Enter Canadian Postal Code and I don't know what to put there?

Urlee

ACPewty

10-13-06, 06:27 PM

I can't get to Staples in Canada?
I keep getting the page which says:Enter Canadian Postal Code and I don't know what to put there?

UrleeHere's a valid Toronto postal code: M4S 2C6, but if you're not in Canada you'll have to pay for shipping...That's if they'll even ship to you from Canada since they operate south of the border too. Maybe they also have a deal in the US? (Assuming you are in the US?)

Urlee

10-13-06, 06:53 PM

Here's a valid Toronto postal code: M4S 2C6, but if you're not in Canada you'll have to pay for shipping...That's if they'll even ship to you from Canada since they operate south of the border too. Maybe they also have a deal in the US? (Assuming you are in the US?)

Thanks Pewty,
My Pio 640 was shipped from Canada so they should like me? "LOL"

<i>Maybe they also have a deal in the US? (Assuming you are in the US?</i>

Yep! From good ole Minnesota, where it is COLD and snowing right now.

Urlee

Rupton23

10-13-06, 08:41 PM

ACPewty

10-14-06, 12:20 AM

Thanks Pewty,
My Pio 640 was shipped from Canada so they should like me? "LOL"

<i>Maybe they also have a deal in the US? (Assuming you are in the US?</i>

Yep! From good ole Minnesota, where it is COLD and snowing right now.

UrleeI tried staples.com but they don't seem to even carry them, and it looks like you have to have a Canadian address to purchase from staples.ca...sorry. :(

It snowed a bit for the first time this season here today too...good thing too 'cause the walls on my igloo were getting pretty thin. ;)

vincentnyc

10-14-06, 01:27 AM

ACPewty

10-14-06, 01:39 AM

another question...

when i went to browse thru an show...for example i want to browse 5-10-20 minutes into a show...how do i do that?

right now i can ony use the 30 second skip commercial but it only go up to 3 min max, and the fast forward is annoying, and the next go to next or end of the show.

so how would i do the one above?Commercial skip can go up to 10 minutes forward or 3 minutes back each time you use it, but you can also use Home Menu...Play Mode...Time Search to go to a specific time.

kjbawc

10-14-06, 01:46 AM

Original Post from Me:

Hi All,

Just a quick question: Aside from a price issue has anyone noticed a picture quality difference between single-layer DVD+R versus DVD-R discs?

I ask because I have been using DVD-R discs and have been very happy with them. I view my finalized discs on a JVC 27" (I don’t believe it’s a digital television but analog). However the other day I brought a couple of my burned discs to a friend's house and we played them on his 32" Sony Wega and his 51" Panasonic HD Plasma. I was shocked to say the least when I noticed quite a bit of digital disturbance. Not blocky pixilation, but very grainy picture quality- the image seemed to break down as it was playing (solid lines seemed alive and moving and not solid). I record all my discs in XP mode and make sure that they run less than 50 minutes a disc. Can anyone clear up this problem for me or is it just the nature of the beast. Analog disc playing on digital equipment?

Thanks, Bob

Thanks for the advice.... yet I'd like to throw a curve at you. I brought my 640 over to my friend's house and hooked it up to his 51" Panasonic HD plasma. I placed a finalized 40 min disc recorded at XP and played it. Again, the picture looked off. Like it was grainy and alive not solid or stable at all. Next I took that finalized disc and went upstairs to his 37" Sony Wega and played it in his Panasonic DVD player and the picture quality didn't look any better.

Any thoughts?

At this point, about all I can say for sure is that your discs shouldn't look as bad as you describe. Okay, so with your 27" set, and your 640, they look all right. On different DVD players, and on a 32" (or 37"?) set, and a 51" set, they looked bad. Then, using your 640, on the same two sets, the discs looked bad. It's hard to see a common denominator for the bad PQ. If I were you, I would try recording something in SP on your 640, and playing that on your friend's equipment. If you want to carry your 640 back to his house, I would also play a commercial DVD through your 640, to make sure it was well connected, and looked good. I can't see that the size difference in your TV is enough to account for a good PQ on your set, and a bad PQ on the others. Make a difference, look worse, sure. But, if it is that bad large, you should see some of it on your set. No one else on this thread has reported such an effect, or similar bad PQ on bigger screens. Perhaps someone with more tech savvy can suggest some problem that would only come up on digital displays, but not on an analog display, as that is the only distinction I see consistant with your problem. But, I would expect a digital DVD to look better on a digital display.

ACPewty

10-14-06, 01:50 AM

Thanks for the advice.... yet I'd like to throw a curve at you. I brought my 640 over to my friend's house and hooked it up to his 51" Panasonic HD plasma. I placed a finalized 40 min disc recorded at XP and played it. Again, the picture looked off. Like it was grainy and alive not solid or stable at all. Next I took that finalized disc and went upstairs to his 37" Sony Wega and played it in his Panasonic DVD player and the picture quality didn't look any better. Any thoughts?What cables are you using, and are they the same cables you use at home? (I assume you don't have the problem at home?) Have you changed any of the factory default recording video adjust settings?

vincentnyc

10-14-06, 08:28 AM

Commercial skip can go up to 10 minutes forward or 3 minutes back each time you use it, but you can also use Home Menu...Play Mode...Time Search to go to a specific time.

how do u set up to 10 minutes? cuz on mine...when i press commercial skip forward...it goes from 30 sec>1 min> 1:30min>2 min> 2.5 min> 3 min then back to 30 sec. same with backward...so how did u set up ur to 10 min?

ACPewty

10-14-06, 11:26 AM

how do u set up to 10 minutes? cuz on mine...when i press commercial skip forward...it goes from 30 sec>1 min> 1:30min>2 min> 2.5 min> 3 min then back to 30 sec. same with backward...so how did u set up ur to 10 min?On mine with cm-skip (forward) I get 30sec, 1min, 1:30, 2min, 3min, 5min, 10min. (You have to be pretty quick though...any pauses and you will have to start again.)

Backward, I get 5sec, 15sec, 30sec, 1min, 2min, 3min. (Sometimes I wish it would go further back than 3 min.)

I don't think there are any adjustment settings for commercial skip. Try again maybe a bit faster?

Rupton23

10-14-06, 12:01 PM

ACPewty

10-14-06, 12:18 PM

Hi All,

Thanks kjbawc and ACPewty for the advice. I will bring my 640 back to his house and try a commercial disc. (Something I should of done anyway!) On my TV at home the picture quality looks great. The only reason I even bothered trying a disc at my friend's house was that someone told me that digital TV's would be less forgiving than an analog TV when it comes to "flaws" so I wanted to see this difference and thus opened Pandora's Box.

For my connections at home I use S-video and RCA when I record off a VCR. These are the same cables I brought over to my friends house. Plus we tried my finialized discs on two different TV's using his original setup with his DVD players and his cables and then my 640 with my cables. For the factory settings I've left them alone... I haven't changed a thing.

I will also record something in SP and bring that over to his house as well. I love the machine. It works great at my house. Maybe his equipment is just full of bad karma!

Thanks! BobI was wondering if you were using component and therefore that the progressive/interlace setting might be wrong when hooked up to your friend's equipment, but not terribly likely plus it wouldn't explain why the DVD's don't play well in his player. Now I'm wondering about settings on his TV(s)??

Let us know how it goes with the further testing. It's puzzling for sure since it looks fine on your TV with the same cables. (Assuming it's more than the usual exaggeration of flaws on big-screen TVs.) I know it's a pain and probably not going to happen but it would be telling if you tried your TV your friend's player.

ZZen

10-15-06, 03:00 AM

Didn't someone make a chart of MN speeds/times when using DL discs? I swear I saw that before (maybe not on this thread) but now I can't find it. I just got some DL's to try and find myself having to do math (dammit!) to figure out the best MN speed. Multiply by 1.8 right?

ZZen

10-15-06, 03:10 AM

Aha! Found it:

azdevilcat:

I made a chart myself to figure out exactly what you have asked for and I will type in the list here. You will see numbers before and after a colon " : " the first number is Hours, and the second is Minutes.

I got these numbers by actually putting a DVD+R DL in the tray and then changing the speed setting and writing each number down.

Multiplying a single layered DVD by 1.8 would work, but you know how when the manual says a specific MN setting will yield a cartain amount of time and then when you put a disc in the tray it gives you a few extra minutes, my list would include the extra minutes for the time that you wind up getting.

MN-32 = 01:53
MN-31 = 02:01
MN-30 = 02:10
MN-29 = 02:19
MN-28 = 02:29
MN-27 = 02:38
MN-26 = 02:47
MN-25 = 02:57
MN-24 = 03:06
MN-23 = 03:15
MN-22 = 03:25
MN-21 = 03:43
MN-20 = 04:02
MN-19 = 04:21
MN-18 = 04:39
MN-17 = 04:58
MN-16 = 05:17
MN-15 = 05:35
MN-14 = 05:54
MN-13 = 06:12
MN-12 = 06:31
MN-11 = 06:50
MN-10 = 07:08
MN-09 = 07:27
MN-08 = 08:23
MN-07 = 09:19
MN-06 = 11:11
MN-05 = 13:03

Then MN-04 to MN-01 all gave the same results = 14:54

MidWestMan

10-15-06, 05:47 PM

Hello

Can someone tell me if theres any way possible to high speed copy a DVD disk
to the HDD to re-copy back to a
DVD disk.
Or do you have to real time copy ALL DVD disk to the HDD.....

Thanks

bobkart

10-15-06, 06:36 PM

Yes on the 640 you can do exactly that.

Except the disc can't be a commercial disc, or copy protected, or dual/double layer.

suplex

10-15-06, 06:46 PM

MidWestMan

10-15-06, 06:49 PM

Yes on the 640 you can do exactly that.

Except the disc can't be a commercial disc, or copy protected, or dual/double layer.

Really!!!
Could you explain HOW.......I dont see it in the manual

suplex

10-15-06, 06:52 PM

Really!!!
Could you explain HOW.......I dont see it in the manual

Through Disk Navigator select: "Copy", then on the next screen select: "Disk Backup". It will high-speed your contents to the HDD, then prompt you to put a blank disk in, and make a duplicate from what it started with.

bobkart

10-15-06, 06:55 PM

What bothers me, unless there is a way I don't know about, is when using Disk Backup you can't get it on the HDD...edit it...and then make your DVD. You can't even see where it is through Disk Navigator, it's just there. I really wish I could do the high-speed dub to the HDD, then maybe edit chapter points or thumbnail pictures, or even rename the title, and then back to a DVD.

You can do that using Real-Time "One Touch Copy", but not using High-Speed "Disk Backup".Yep you can't edit that way, just make another copy.

Not being able to High-Speed copy from DVD to HDD is one of the more glaring ommissions that many models of DVD Recorder exhibit. My theory, formed quite some time ago actually, is that they want to prevent any material from getting on the HDD that the recorder itself did not create (or the same or similar model in the same brand). I think DVD-RAM is the only exception to this. I think the editing software they have on these models with HDDs needs to be able to make many assumptions about the structure of the MPEG data on the HDD, and by allowing High-Speed copy of "foreign" MPEG data to the HDD, that would violate those assumptions, causing the editing software to fail. They could of course make the editing software more robust, but at additional development cost. So it's easier to just prevent any "foreign" MPEG from getting on the HDD. This is also why I'm pretty sure no models allow DivX/etc. to be copied to the HDD. Now this theory is pure speculation on my part and I have no idea if it actually holds, but it's the best I've been able to come up with in the way of an explanation for what we're seeing in this area.

MidWestMan

10-15-06, 07:10 PM

Through Disk Navigator select: "Copy", then on the next screen select: "Disk Backup". It will high-speed your contents to the HDD, then prompt you to put a blank disk in, and make a duplicate from what it started with.

That would be great, let me try that and ill let you know how it is in a few minutes

MidWestMan

10-15-06, 07:51 PM

Through Disk Navigator select: "Copy", then on the next screen select: "Disk Backup". It will high-speed your contents to the HDD, then prompt you to put a blank disk in, and make a duplicate from what it started with.

Hey Suplex......YEP, it works, i dont know how i missed that, i was trying to hit DVD-HDD instead of disk back-up......Hey Thanks, this will save me a whole lotta time friend

smiles
Mike

bottlerocket

10-15-06, 08:27 PM

just double checking myself...

i want 5 episodes that edit down to about 43 minutes each, to fit on one dvd.
so that's about 215 minutes. according to the chart, if I use MN 11 (LP quality), it sould work.

i noticed that it gives you a little extra time (i fit 3 of the 43 minute episodes in auto SP mode on one disc with space left), so you guys with more experiance using the manual modes, do you think I can get away with a higher setting?

thanks.

vincentnyc

10-15-06, 08:30 PM

Where do u turn on for manual recording? I don't see a button for it on the remote control. And the manual was no help.

So any1 know how to turn on manual recording? I want to turn it on so I can select the mode: MN1, MN32, or LPCM. Thx in advance.

bottlerocket

10-15-06, 08:39 PM

home menu > initial setup > recording.

suplex

10-15-06, 08:55 PM

Hey Suplex......YEP, it works, i dont know how i missed that, i was trying to hit DVD-HDD instead of disk back-up......Hey Thanks, this will save me a whole lotta time friend

smiles
Mike

No problem MidWestMan, enjoy your newly found feature. I'm sure you'll get a lot of use out of it.

suplex

suplex

10-15-06, 09:01 PM

just double checking myself...

I want 5 episodes that edit down to about 43 minutes each, to fit on one dvd.
So that's about 215 minutes. According to the chart, if I use MN 11 (LP quality), it should work.

I noticed that it gives you a little extra time (I fit 3 of the 43 minute episodes in auto SP mode on one disc with space left), so you guys with more experiance using the manual modes, do you think I can get away with a higher setting?

thanks.

MN 11 isn't LP, MN 09 is LP. MN 11 is 3hr & 40min (or 220 minutes) which would be just right for 5 episodes of an hour long show without commercials.

As to the higher setting, I have calculated exact settings I should use (like you did) and then found a lot of space left at the end of the final title that went on the disc. What I would do is try one higher than the correctly calculated setting.

For your example about 5 episodes at 43 minutes each (being 215 minutes) and using MN 11 (which yields 220), try MN 12 instead which gives 210 minutes. It will more than likely fit just fine.

MidWestMan

10-15-06, 09:27 PM

I do want to give an update, ive just finished recording my 400th DVD on the 640.....Ive had no problems whatsoever, and am really happy with this unit. This is my 1st DVD recorder and i love it!!!

I use Verbatim DVD-R
I record in Video Mode
I either dub VHS tapes & edit or
record off of Directtv

any questions feel free to ask!

Mike

Sinner

10-16-06, 12:10 AM

dunno really where to ask this, but has anyone tried the new HDMI-equipped 645H-S?

http://www.pioneerhongkong.com.hk/site/en/product3.asp?pid=186

ACPewty

10-16-06, 01:48 AM

AndyInWpg

10-16-06, 02:13 AM

I checked a bunch of User Reviews for this program posted over at VH, and they are almost uniformly negative, although a couple did mention an older version being better. I'm still interested in being able to create / edit / copy / burn VR mode stuff on the PC, so I may have to check it out.

Sorry I didn't see this sooner. I spent some time recently creating VR's on the computer to try and copy to the Pioneer HDD. Never did succeed. Closest was with Ulead DVD Movie Factory 5 which can edit a VR DVD-RW from the Pioneer and have the Pioneer high speed copy it back to HDD. But when I tried to create a VR from scratch (BeyondTV capture with MPEG soundtrack) or from a finalized Video Mode DVD from the Pioneer, there was always a difference in the AC-3 sound track that caused rejection. Complicated by the trial versions of software not supporting AC-3 which Pioneer uses.
Andy....

vincentnyc

10-16-06, 01:59 PM

wajo

10-16-06, 02:16 PM

quick questions...when i go into timer recording and setup a recording there is a feature called "extended" and it can go from none>30min>60min>90 min> 120 min.

what is this feature for and what happen if u set it to like 30 min? thx in advance.
It's just one of three ways to keep a timer recording going when/if you see that the program is running long.

You can:
1. Hold REC button down to shut timer end point off so it keeps recording until you press STOP REC.

2. Press REC button repeatedly to "extend" the end point of the recording in 30-min. increments.

3. Go into the TIMER RECORDING > MODIFY > EXTEND menu and edit the ending time.

Obviously, if you know or think in advance that a program might "run overtime," you should just set a longer end time in the original TIMER REC program. The EXTEND is "mainly" for a TIMER REC program in progress that you happen to see, or are "monitoring" for a possible overtime (like a football game), is going to run longer than the end time you originally set.

Rupton23

10-16-06, 03:41 PM

Hi All,

Quick question: On the Pioneer website when looking up the 640's specs it mentions that the Video Digital to Analog conversion rate was 10-bit/108MHz. They say that the higher the bitrate the better. On the 633 they list 10-bit/54MHz. What's the difference in MHz mean? The 640 is double of the older model. Is that good? Or does it really matter?

Thanks, Bob

bobkart

10-16-06, 03:55 PM

I suspect the higher frequency DAC is better.

Are you trying to decide between a 633 and a 640?

vincentnyc

10-16-06, 08:20 PM

wajo

10-16-06, 08:25 PM

when i go into timer recording...there is a feature called "auto replace rec."...i can't select that feature...it is dim out.

what now? how do i turn on this feature so i can select it? thx in advance.
It is only available for a daily or weekly recording. For one of those, you have to select "Set Detailed" to get into the Auto Replace section of the menu.

vincentnyc

10-16-06, 08:32 PM

and how do you setup a recording that rewrite the same file daily, or weekly or monthly? thx in advance.

vincentnyc

10-16-06, 08:47 PM

another question...while im recording something...can i delete commercial while watching it?

wajo

10-16-06, 08:48 PM

and how do you setup a recording that rewrite the same file daily, or weekly or monthly? thx in advance.
I guess you missed the instruction above?

Set the items for a daily or weekly program, then select "SET DETAILED." Arrow down to Auto Replace and turn ON.

And, YES, while recording manually...where you press the REC button to record..., you can press PAUSE once, until a commercial is over, then press PAUSE again to restart recording. NOTE: You CANNOT do this while in a TIMER REC program.

LJM

10-16-06, 08:53 PM

I've seen the 543 in stores here in Canada. It has an 80Gb HDD for about $50 CDN less. Don't know why it isn't available in the US.

Just bought the 543 in Canada. Searching online for info. Came across thread in AVSForum. So decided to register with AVSForum to discuss DVRs.

The 543 was $349.

It has 80GB HDD.

Anyone online have same model? Would like to "hear" from you.

Want to find the "code" assigned by Pioneerto the remote control; "VCR Commander" umbilical cord used by Rogers Cable (TV and internet povider) sends signal to turn on my VCR (and hopefully now instead my DVR) and begin recording.

bobkart

10-16-06, 08:59 PM

First, welcome to AVS Forums.

Just a fine point that will make your posts that much more understandable:

DVR = Digital Video Recorder
DVDR = DVD Recorder

The difference being that DVR's need not be able to burn what they record to DVDs.

The two terms get used interchangably though, to the point of not being sure what someone means when they use the term DVR. So I think it's worth using the term DVDR when a DVD Recorder is being referred to.

vincentnyc

10-16-06, 09:00 PM

It is only available for a daily or weekly recording. For one of those, you have to select "Set Detailed" to get into the Auto Replace section of the menu.

i did click on "set detailed" and it is still not allowing me to select it. what now?

vincentnyc

10-16-06, 09:10 PM

Set the items for a daily or weekly program, then select "SET DETAILED." Arrow down to Auto Replace and turn ON.

just how do u " set the items for a daily or a weekly program?" no where do i see that when im in the "timer recording."

AndyInWpg

10-16-06, 09:38 PM

Just bought the 543 in Canada.
Anyone online have same model? Would like to "hear" from you.

Want to find the "code" assigned by Pioneerto the remote control; "VCR Commander" umbilical cord used by Rogers Cable (TV and internet povider) sends signal to turn on my VCR (and hopefully now instead my DVR) and begin recording.
Hi LJM,
I've had one for a few weeks. I believe it's identical to the 640 except for the hard disk size, so anything you read in this thread should apply. I'm in Western Canada so I don't have the Rogers code but it should be one of the codes listed under Pioneer VCRs in the Rogers documentation. That's the way it works with Bell Expressvu anyway.
Keep an eye on the price protection over the next few weeks. I paid C$299 for mine 3 weeks ago and the 640 was C$399 up to last Thursday, both at Future Shop. Then the prices went up this week.
Andy....

vincentnyc

10-16-06, 09:44 PM

just how do u " set the items for a daily or a weekly program?" no where do i see that when im in the "timer recording."

can any1 enlightened how u "select daily or weekly" when it is not even in the setup screen and no where in the manual indicate how to do it except for telling u how to turn on when the option is dimmed out!!!!!

i think the manual that came with the dvr is no good except for using to wipe ur ass.

dvdiva

10-16-06, 09:55 PM

Want to find the "code" assigned by Pioneerto the remote control; "VCR Commander" umbilical cord used by Rogers Cable (TV and internet povider) sends signal to turn on my VCR (and hopefully now instead my DVR) and begin recording.

I use 0072 for my Rogers SD and HD boxes which worked for last year's 531 and this year's 640, so give it a try. Remember that the IR blaster will NOT turn the unit on (unlike a VCR). I missed this bit of info buried in the manual last year when I set up the 531. When you are setting up the code on your cable box and going thru the testing phase make sure your 543 is ON already and set to HDD not DVD. I wasted sooo much time going thru different codes, 0072 was the 2nd one listed. :eek:

I think the IR blaster is good if you use the unit to mainly record and no one else in the household will use it as a DVD player & leave it on DVD function or turn the unit off. Not sure how good leaving it on for extended periods is in terms of HDD wear & tear. Also, if you set TIMER REC on the 543 on occasion as well as use the IR blaster, the 543 will turn itself off shortly after a TIMER REC is done. The IR blaster won't work until the Pio is turned back on. The nice thing about using the IR blaster is that you will get the autotitle working 'cuz it acts as a manual recording.

Is anyone else dependent on an IR blaster from a cable box to do most of the recordings? How do you make it work so that the Pio unit doesn't get turned off accidently or left on DVD function in a household of >1 person?

wajo

10-16-06, 09:59 PM

can any1 enlightened how u "select daily or weekly" when it is not even in the setup screen and no where in the manual indicate how to do it except for telling u how to turn on when the option is dimmed out!!!!!

i think the manual that came with the dvr is no good except for using to wipe ur ass.
In the "Date" column, arrow DOWN to see other options, such as Every Sun, Every Mon, etc. Keep arrowing down to see all the options.

vincentnyc

10-16-06, 10:14 PM

In the "Date" column, arrow DOWN to see other options, such as Every Sun, Every Mon, etc. Keep arrowing down to see all the options.

thank you...i won't even unless u told me. no where in the manual say about this. maybe u should be writing manual for them.

dvdiva

10-16-06, 10:14 PM

can any1 enlightened how u "select daily or weekly" when it is not even in the setup screen and no where in the manual indicate how to do it except for telling u how to turn on when the option is dimmed out!!!!!

i think the manual that came with the dvr is no good except for using to wipe ur ass.

When choosing the date in a Timer Rec, instead of scrolling up to advance dates, scroll down to choose repeated recordings. Not well described in the manual, I agree.

vincentnyc

10-16-06, 10:14 PM

thank you...i won't even know about this unless u told me. no where in the manual say about this. maybe u should be writing manual for them.

LJM

10-16-06, 10:23 PM

Bobkart, AndyInWpg and dvdiva:

Thanks for such helpful and instant feedback!!! This is the first forum I ever joined. It's great!

I was completely unaware of the need to have/leave the DVDR on in order for the IR blaster to "speak" to it. Will give that a whirl tomorrow. And I'll go straight to 0072.

As for purchase, I bought from Best Buy. $349 for the 543 was Best Buy and Future Shop both in their Oct 13th fliers (Ontario Canada). If they reduce it before ealry Nov, I can get some money back. Thanks.

LJM

10-16-06, 10:40 PM

dvdiva

10-16-06, 11:05 PM

Are you sure the disc is finalized, as it needs to be for other players to play it? Is it VR or Video mode? The latter is more compatible with other players. I never record directly to a DVD, I always record to the HDD first so I am just guessing at some of the problems that you may be encountering.

ACPewty

10-16-06, 11:15 PM

The Pioneer 543 is "same" as the 640 except for HDD size. That's good to know. When I timer recorded King Kong with 3hrs15min timespan to blank DVD-R disk, I manually chose the 4hrs setting; I did not choose "Auto" wrt duration. Result was a DVD that is not playable on my PC or std dvd player.

Need help (or trial-and-error) learning how to set the settings so the resulting disk (exceeding the std 2 hrs) is playable on my PC and most any std dvd player.Welcome LJM.

What type of DVDs are you using? For best compatibility with other players, use finalized Video mode DVD-R. The recording speed shouldn't matter for compatibility. (I recommend Verbatim 16x DVDs which are on sale at Staples (here in Ontario) this week 100 for $29.99.)

You should always record to the HDD first, and then high-speed copy to DVD. That way you don't have to worry about a bad DVD and if necessary you can edit out commercials before copying to DVD.

I also recorded King King from TMN. I used the "Auto" recording speed which used the best bitrate to fit on a DVD: (MN13 I believe), but I think I will re-record using the manual recording speed MN23 which will be the best bitrate to fill a dual layer DVD. That will provide better pq for larger displays. You should turn on manual recording and get used to using the manual recording (MN) speeds so you can record at the best bitrate to fill a DVD AFTER editing out commercials etc.

EDIT: When you plan to record a program and edit out commercials, refer to page 125 for the correct recording speeds to use to fill a standard signle layer DVD. Just estimate how long the program will be after editing out commercials, and use the matching MN speed. You can usually expect a minimum of 10 minutes of commercials per hour, often considerably more but be careful you don't get too aggressive because if the program doesn't fit after editing you end up having to re-encode in real-time using the optimized copy feature and that results in a loss of pq.

LJM

10-16-06, 11:54 PM

Now "we're cookin with gas". Lots of good pointers, thanks.

kjbawc

10-17-06, 12:03 AM

No doubt some will give a big "Well, DUH!" to this, but I'm sure some will find it new info...

A few weeks back, someone posted about wanting to add a bit from the beginning of one HDD recording to the end of another, and combine it into one title, to correct a scheduling mistake. No one offered anything saying it was possible to combine titles.

I have been doing my editing to the HDD recordings. When I brought up the editing menu on a title in the "Copy List," I saw few options. I expected to see them all on the screen at once, like editing on the HDD. Well, I had two recordings of a Doctor Who ep, from different times, that both had glitches in different places. I wanted to edit them together, and make one good copy. So, in case of errors, I decided to edit the titles in the "Copy List," for the first time. Finally, I noticed the arrow at the bottom that brings up all the editing options that the HDD offers, and more! You can combine two titles into one, and two chapters into one, even if they have had something between them edited out. So, I think that will be useful news to some here, even if those of you who always edit in the "Copy List" knew it all along. I have yet to check and see if this editing format eliminates, or reduces, the pauses at edit points we were unsuccessfully trying to git rid of a while back...

vincentnyc

10-17-06, 12:18 AM

i keep hearing some radio station are broadcast in hd. can my pioneer dvr 640 pick up those station and record them? if so...how would u do it?

vincentnyc

10-17-06, 12:20 AM

Bobkart, AndyInWpg and dvdiva:
...
I was completely unaware of the need to have/leave the DVDR on in order for the IR blaster to "speak" to it. Will give that a whirl tomorrow. And I'll go straight to 0072.
...

are you using an ir blaster with ur pioneer dvr 640. if so, which one? how much is it? can you provide a link where u bought it from? thx in advance.

i have been looking for an ir blaster for my 640.

ACPewty

10-17-06, 12:37 AM

I have yet to check and see if this editing format eliminates, or reduces, the pauses at edit points we were unsuccessfully trying to git rid of a while back...Sorry, no difference. You will still have the brief pauses. :(

ACPewty

10-17-06, 12:39 AM

are you using an ir blaster with ur pioneer dvr 640. if so, which one? how much is it? can you provide a link where u bought it from? thx in advance.

i have been looking for an ir blaster for my 640.They are talking about an IR blaster that comes with the STB so it will control the 640 when it is left on. (The STB must have the firmware to send out the codes, so just having a stand-alone IR cable won't cut it. You need a new STB that can send the codes to the 640.)

ZZen

10-17-06, 02:18 AM

Why isn't the Combine Title edit function available in the main disc navigator and only in the copy list screen? Odd.

kjbawc

10-17-06, 02:30 AM

Why isn't the Combine Title edit function available in the main disc navigator and only in the copy list screen? Odd.

I figured that would be useful info for some... :D ;)

I'd bet that someone who knows HDDs can answer your question, but my guess is that when you import them to the Copy List, there is no space between them, as there is on the place where you recorded them in the HDD. Note that on the copy list, you can also combine chapters that couldn't be combined on the disc navigator, because something had been deleted between them.

ACPewty

10-17-06, 09:43 AM

I figured that would be useful info for some... :D ;)

I'd bet that someone who knows HDDs can answer your question, but my guess is that when you import them to the Copy List, there is no space between them, as there is on the place where you recorded them in the HDD. Note that on the copy list, you can also combine chapters that couldn't be combined on the disc navigator, because something had been deleted between them.I believe the copy list is actually just a group of pointers to files or file positions on the source drive (usually HDD) so it can easily simulate pretty much any editing function because it just keeps track of the pointers and uses them to read when writing to the target disc. (I don't think your available HDD space really diminishes while creating a copy list.) For this reason I don't think the space between files has anything to do with it because the copy list doesn't actually have to move or edit any files at all. When writing a copy, it just acts on the pointers you create during the "editing". This is much easier and faster, and fragments less than actually physically editing files on the HDD, therefore more editing features are available in the copy list.

vincentnyc

10-17-06, 10:13 AM

i keep hearing some radio station are broadcast in hd. can my pioneer dvr 640 pick up those station and record them? if so...how would u do it?

can any1 answer this above???

ACPewty

10-17-06, 10:25 AM

can any1 answer this above???What do you mean "some radio station are broadcast in hd"?
HD = high definition, which applies to video, not audio. :confused:

Budget_HT

10-17-06, 10:29 AM

can any1 answer this above???
There are "HD" digital radio stations that are generally simulcasts of FM stations that also share the same frequency as the FM station. To receive the digital "HD" stations, a digital FM tuner is required. There are many available for cars and very few models available for in-the-home use.

In this case, "HD" does not stand for high definition, but rather for "hybrid digital." HD radio stations are essentially broadcasting MP3-like signals that are compressed to some degree. The big advantage, like for most other digital broadcasts, is the lack of analog artifacts such as static, noise and fading, caused by weak or multipath signals. The tradeoff is that the digital version is all or none, much like digital TV.

The only way to record this HD radio source on your DVD recorder is to connect an analog stereo audio output from an HD radio receiver to a stereo audio line input on the DVD recorder. Then the program material can be recorded on the DVDR hard drive or a DVD-R or whatever.

A Google search for "HD Radio" brought back this web site and more:
http://www.hdradio.com/index.php

There is no internal method of recording any radio source on any DVD recorder that I am aware of.

vincentnyc

10-17-06, 10:30 AM

What do you mean "some radio station are broadcast in hd"?
HD = high definition, which applies to video, not audio. :confused:

well one of the radio station z100 fm in nyc said they are broadcasting in hd. and they even did a commercial by saying...can you hear a difference with hd?

ACPewty

10-17-06, 10:40 AM

well one of the radio station z100 fm in nyc said they are broadcasting in hd. and they even did a commercial by saying...can you hear a difference with hd?Sounds like a joke or a marketing gimmick to me. Anyway, if you have a radio source (eg Receiver) you can connect to the audio inputs (L1, L2 or L3) you can probably record it on the 640, but you may have to supply a video feed too.

Even if there were such a thing as HD audio, since the 640 can't record HD video, I suspect the "HD audio" will have to be down-scaled. ;)

EDIT: Apparently there really is "HD Radio" that requires special equipment. If you buy the receiver and it has analog outputs, you can record it on the 640 but it has to be converted to analog first to be recorded by the 640 so you it won't be staying in the digitral realm the whole time. You might as well record from a standard receiver if your reception is good.

vincentnyc

10-17-06, 11:03 AM

another question...i have a dvd+rw 4X disc. i can use this one my dvr 640 right? on the manual it said to copy to the disc will be 10 min. is this true with this disc? and since this is an RW, it mean i can use it over and over again? any1 with experience with this RW disc can give me an oppinions. will the disc stand the test of time? or will wear and tear will cost this disc to not functions. if so, how many time do u recommend writing to this disc before you stop?

ACPewty

10-17-06, 11:43 AM

Anyway, if you have a radio source (eg Receiver) you can connect to the audio inputs (L1, L2 or L3) you can probably record it on the 640, but you may have to supply a video feed too.I ran a quick test and you can record audio only with no video feed. You just get a black screen during playback.

vincentnyc: Yes you can use DVD+RW in the recorder and reuse it. How many times depends on the brand etc, but I think you should get up to 1000 rewrites. RW are less compatible with other players, and it will take considerably longer to high-speed copy than say a 16x DVD-R. (The 640 will tell you how long it will take depending on how much data has to be written.)

Also, the FF feature isn't as functional at faster speeds on +R and it is on -R. I recommend you stick to -R or -RW media on the 640 for best results.

Supposedly -RW/+RW don't last as long as -R/+R. There are a number of threads discussing this here. Try a search.

Rupton23

10-17-06, 11:56 AM

I suspect the higher frequency DAC is better.

Are you trying to decide between a 633 and a 640?

Hi bobkart,

Actually I have a 640 , but my friend has a 633. When I looked at the specs on the Pioneer website I noticed this Video DAC as one of the differences and he asked me about it. Since I didn't know I was hoping somone here on the board might know the answer:

Hi All,

Quick question: On the Pioneer website when looking up the 640's specs it mentions that the Video Digital to Analog conversion rate was 10-bit/108MHz. They say that the higher the bitrate the better. On the 633 they list 10-bit/54MHz. What's the difference in MHz mean? The 640 is double of the older model. Is that good? Or does it really matter?

Thanks, Bob

Oiler1

10-17-06, 12:58 PM

After I set the titles in timer recording it loses it after recording. Is there a firmware fix for this?

wajo

10-17-06, 01:04 PM

After I set the titles in timer recording it loses it after recording. Is there a firmware fix for this?
None yet. Any time the timer gets involved in a recording, you won't get a title, just date, time, etc. Manual recordings will get a title, as long as the program/station sends the title in the signal.

zhenerale

10-17-06, 01:13 PM

I would like to record TV shows to the HDD and then edit out the commercials before hi-speed dubbing onto DVD-R's.

There is a "Playback" setting of "Seamless Play" --> does that affect the HDD recording to allow for frame accurate cut-off?

There is a "Recording" setting of "HDD Recording Format" --> "Video Mode On" allows for hi-speed copy. Should this be turned "Off" as:

in the:
Which Units offers Frame accurate editing w/High speed Dubbing thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=732993)
The Pioneer DVR-640H-S can high-speed dub (12x I believe...does very well with DVD-R 16x) frame accurate edits to VR mode discs. You can edit (very easily) either right from the HDD or in a temporary copy list in Video mode or frame accurate (VR) mode. (Video mode forces you to edit at key frames...every 15th frame which I think is standard for video mode.) It takes about 8 minutes to copy a full DVD.

The type of target DVD (VR or Video mode) will determine if frame accuracy is preserved. If you edit using frame accuracy (VR) and then high-speed copy to a video mode DVD, you lose the frame accuracy and edit points may move slightly, to the nearest key frame.

You can also high-speed copy VR mode DVDs to the HDD for further editing/copying etc. Video mode must be copied to HDD in real-time.

The 640 is also the only DVDR with a feature to copy a non copy-protected video mode DVD at high-speed. It makes a temporary copy to the HDD (non-editable) and then you can make multiple copies from HDD to DVD.
Turning this setting off, would I still be able to hi-speed dub?

So,
1) Which settings of the two items above should they be set at?
2) Do I need to initialize my DVD-R to VR mode before recording?
3) Will I possibly have issues playing VR mode DVD-R in my other DVD players (as opposed to Video mode)?

Info would be great before I dub to DVD-R incorrectly.

wajo

10-17-06, 01:26 PM

I would like to record TV shows to the HDD and then edit out the commercials before hi-speed dubbing onto DVD-R's.

There is a "Playback" setting of "Seamless Play" --> does that affect the HDD recording to allow for frame accurate cut-off?

There is a "Recording" setting of "HDD Recording Format" --> "Video Mode On" allows for hi-speed copy. Should this be turned "Off" as:

Turning this setting off, would I still be able to hi-speed dub?

So,
1) Which settings of the two items above should they be set at?
2) Do I need to initialize my DVD-R to VR mode before recording?
3) Will I possibly have issues playing VR mode DVD-R in my other DVD players (as opposed to Video mode)?

Info would be great before I dub to DVD-R incorrectly.
Yes, you can HS copy from your HDD if set to Video Mode Off, contrary to all warnings. However, if your goal is to eventually HS copy, there is no advantage to frame accurate editing since HS copy will move those edit points to key frames anyway.

You don't want VR-mode discs for anyone else or any other machine. It's "value" is as a means of "dumping" things from the HDD for later "compilation" into a series of DVDs, such as all episodes of a show (HS copy back and forth, which maintains PQ).

Seamless playback only applies to HDD, VR-mode -R/RW and -RAM playback, but edit point accuracy is not maintained with this on.

zhenerale

10-17-06, 02:11 PM

So I, unlike my Panny E80 (and, I believe, the more recent Panny EH50), I can not get frame accuracte (not key frames) high-speed dubbed DVD-R's which I can play on other DVD players from the 640?

wajo

10-17-06, 02:38 PM

So I, unlike my Panny E80 (and, I believe, the more recent Panny EH50), I can not get frame accuracte (not key frames) high-speed dubbed DVD-R's which I can play on other DVD players from the 640?
I believe only a real-time copy will/can "preserve" frame-accurate edit points.

However, I haven't done any and haven't seen any tests that "prove" the edit-point issue, which would require a controlled test that could identify, "track" and document the EXACT edit points and their position change, if any, from HDD to DVD. Maybe someone else has actually done that test?

I've done lots of tests with VR- and Video-mode (VM) HDD, Frame-Accurate and Video-Mode editing just to see if I could get a HS-copied Video-Mode DVD that didn't have a slight pause at each edit point. HS copy seems to have a longer pause than real-time copy, but no combination of editing could eliminate the pause entirely on a VM DVD.

It "appears" the only way to end up with a VM DVD w/o slight pauses at erased section edits is to cut in the fade-to-black area...if there is one.

MidWestMan

10-17-06, 02:41 PM

None yet. Any time the timer gets involved in a recording, you won't get a title, just date, time, etc. Manual recordings will get a title, as long as the program/station sends the title in the signal.

Personally, i just let my thumbnail be the title, and i erase everything except the recording mode.....all my movies or whatever the program is has the title in my thumbnails!

zhenerale

10-17-06, 02:41 PM

wajo

10-17-06, 02:49 PM

I'll settle for a "pause", I just didn't want undesired frames in the final DVD-R and certainly don't want to have to dub real-time to create it.

I'm looking for other user's feedback on how to create the recording (VR or VM mode) so that I would be able to high-speed dub to DVD-R while maintaining frame accurate edits (again, pauses is fine).
Well, actually, IF you can make your edits at key frames, as in Video-mode editing, THOSE edit points will be retained in a HS copy.

If you absolutely "have to" make an edit at frame 10 rather than 15, the edit point will "probably" move to frame 15.

Hopefully, you won't need that exact precision???

ZZen

10-17-06, 02:57 PM

zhenerale

10-17-06, 02:59 PM

ACPewty

10-17-06, 03:27 PM

After I set the titles in timer recording it loses it after recording. Is there a firmware fix for this?Yes, this is a known issue. Timer events always get names just using the date, time and bitrate, whereas if a program name is broadcasted (usually) it will be used for manual recordings. I started a thread regarding this in hopes of getting some support from other 640 users to urge Pioneer to supply a firmware update:

Wanna fix the Pioneer DVR-640H-S Timer Event Title Name Issue? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8498393#post8498393)

(I think there's an echo in here.) :)

ACPewty

10-17-06, 03:33 PM

I was looking for a HDD DVD recorder (and just got this 640) to supplement my Panny E80 which did provide for frame accurate high-speed dubbing to DVD-R.

Unfortunately hi-speed for the E80 was 1x for DVD-R and 2x for DVD-RAM.

Searching this forum, I came up with the Panny EH50 (2005 model) and the 640. Unless the info I got was wrong (or I read it wrong), maybe the 640 does not provide what I want.

I rather know my choices of which HDD DVD recorders offers what I want (hi-speed dubbing of frame accurate edits to DVD-R) so I can select from them.

Knowing that there are other units that offers frame accuracy (no it is not that important but I strongly prefer it), I rather let that be my first filter.You can get frame accurate editing and high-speed copy to DVD if the DVD is initialized as VR mode. Turn on the seamless playback to eliminate the pauses from VR mode DVD or HDD recordings. The pauses are only evident on Video mode recordings.

Refer to my post #1062 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8515259&&#post8515259) for detailed info regarding recording modes, frame accuracy and editing.

EDIT: Just beware there are some differences in resolution between VR mode and Video mode below the MN16 bitrate as listed on page 125 of the manual. (I have not tested to confirm this myself.)

zhenerale

10-17-06, 04:05 PM

You can get frame accurate editing and high-speed copy to DVD if the DVD is initialized as VR mode. Turn on the seamless playback to eliminate the pauses from VR mode DVD or HDD recordings. The pauses are only evident on Video mode recordings.

Refer to my post #1062 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8515259&&#post8515259) for detailed info regarding recording modes, frame accuracy and editing.

EDIT: Just beware there are some differences in resolution between VR mode and Video mode below the MN16 bitrate as listed on page 125 of the manual. (I have not tested to confirm this myself.)

Thanks ACPewty & Wabjxo.

Just to confirm, I should:
1) Seamless Playback = OFF
2) HDD Recording Format = Video Mode Off

(If I had HDD Recording format set to Video Mode On, I could change that when editing. Also going forward as I am [always] seeking frame accurate editing, I should set HDD Recording Format to VM Off. Correct?)

The 640 is a bit more complex than my E80 (with the MN's & recording formats) -- do I need to initialize a DVD-R before dubbing (I haven't gotten to that point yet).

ACPewty

10-17-06, 04:27 PM

Thanks ACPewty & Wabjxo.

Just to confirm, I should:
1) Seamless Playback = ON
2) HDD Recording Format = Video Mode Off

(If I had HDD Recording format set to Video Mode On, I could change that when editing. Also going forward as I am [always] seeking frame accurate editing, I should set HDD Recording Format to VM Off. Correct?)

The 640 is a bit more complex than my E80 (with the MN's & recording formats) -- do I need to initialize a DVD-R before dubbing (I haven't gotten to that point yet).You can still use frame accurate editing even if HDD Recording Format is set to Video Mode = On.

My Post #1193 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8562225#post8562225) details differences regarding the HDD Recording Format setting.

Yes, you should initialize in advance. The mode of the disc will determine the type of copy...VR or Video mode.

vincentnyc

10-17-06, 04:36 PM

wajo

10-17-06, 04:38 PM

The 640 is a bit more complex than my E80 (with the MN's & recording formats) -- do I need to initialize a DVD-R before dubbing (I haven't gotten to that point yet).
You only need to "Initialize" a std DVD if you want the DVD to be in VR-mode. For your "pass-around" copies, no initializing needed.

If you use a -RW DVD, it will be auto-initialized for VR-mode, unless you change that to VM-mode in the Initial Setup > Recording menu.

ACPewty

10-17-06, 04:42 PM

(If I had HDD Recording format set to Video Mode On, I could change that when editing. Also going forward as I am [always] seeking frame accurate editing, I should set HDD Recording Format to VM Off. Correct?)Sorry, just realized I didn't really answer your question directly.

You can change from video mode to frame accurate editing after you record, but the HDD Recording Format setting during recording makes the difference regarding high-speed copying of low bitrates (MN9 to MN15), so I recommend leaving Video Mode = On to guarantee high-speed copies even at those low bitrates.

ACPewty

10-17-06, 04:45 PM

quick question...it said there is a built tv tuner with this dvr...what kinda tuner is it? standard or hd tuner like one of these....http://www.samsung.com/Products/DigitalSetTopBox/HDTVTuners/DTB_H260FXAA.asp?

The 640 only records SD (480i) content. Even with a HD tuner you can only record in SD on the 640 if the tuner can down-res the video to 480i.

zhenerale

10-17-06, 04:47 PM

You can still use frame accurate editing even if HDD Recording Format is set to Video Mode = On.

My Post #1193 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8562225#post8562225) details differences regarding the HDD Recording Format setting.

Yes, you should initialize in advance. The mode of the disc will determine the type of copy...VR or Video mode.

OK, so I should have HDD Recording Format = Video Mode ON.

With that, I would still be able to high-speed dub to DVD-R by iniitalizing the DVD-R for VR mode dubbing to keep frame accurate edits. Correct?

(Sorry I changed the Seamless Playback from "OFF" to "ON" after your last post. Which should it be if I'm concerned more with having accurate [frame] edits than pauses (I would like both, but willing to sacrifice pauses for frame accuracy)?)

vincentnyc

10-17-06, 04:58 PM

The 640 only records SD (480i) content. Even with a HD tuner you can only record in SD on the 640 if the tuner can down-res the video to 480i.

ok does anyone know of any dvr that has hd tuner built in instead? i maybe interested in one. links would be great.

zhenerale

10-17-06, 04:59 PM

You only need to "Initialize" a std DVD if you want the DVD to be in VR-mode. For your "pass-around" copies, no initializing needed.

If you use a -RW DVD, it will be auto-initialized for VR-mode, unless you change that to VM-mode in the Initial Setup > Recording menu.

Sorry but what is VR mode anyway. I read the VR mode thread and my take was that it allowed (like VHS) dubbing to DVD's without needing to be finalized before being able to be played in VR mode [newer] compatible DVD players.

If I finalize a VR mode DVD-R, would I be able to play these in my other DVD players (assuming they are the newer ones: post 2004 production)?

ACPewty

10-17-06, 05:01 PM

OK, so I should have HDD Recording Format = Video Mode ON.

With that, I would still be able to high-speed dub to DVD-R by iniitalizing the DVD-R for VR mode dubbing to keep frame accurate edits. Correct?Correct.

(Sorry I changed the Seamless Playback from "OFF" to "ON" after your last post. Which should it be if I'm concerned more with having accurate [frame] edits than pauses (I would like both, but willing to sacrifice pauses for frame accuracy)?)You can have both when playing back on the 640 from HDD or VR mode DVD with Seamless Playback = On. Playing back on other VR mode players will probably still have pauses, depending on the player.

ACPewty

10-17-06, 05:05 PM

ok does anyone know of any dvr that has hd tuner built in instead? i maybe interested in one. links would be great.DVR = Digital Video Recorder (without DVD burning ability,) DVDR = DVD Recorder (with burning ability,) Which do you want?

There are plenty of DVRs available, but DVD can't realistically handle HD due to a lack of space. Blue-ray (HD) recorders are starting to show up...Panasonic I think.

ACPewty

10-17-06, 05:09 PM

Sorry but what is VR mode anyway. I read the VR mode thread and my take was that it allowed (like VHS) dubbing to DVD's without needing to be finalized before being able to be played in VR mode [newer] compatible DVD players.

If I finalize a VR mode DVD-R, would I be able to play these in my other DVD players (assuming they are the newer ones: post 2004 production)?It stands for Video Recording Mode and basically you have the idea. It permits some extra editing features, but is less compatible especially with older players. If you want to ensure compatibility, use video mode and finalize.

Yes, I expect you have a better chance of a VR mode DVD working in another VR compatible player if it is finalized.

wajo

10-17-06, 05:24 PM

(Sorry I changed the Seamless Playback from "OFF" to "ON" after your last post. Which should it be if I'm concerned more with having accurate [frame] edits than pauses (I would like both, but willing to sacrifice pauses for frame accuracy)?)
Sorry if this is getting confusing. ;)

If your primary concern is to retain your frame-accurate editing during playback, as you said with emphasis, Seamless Playback should be OFF. (See pg 116 of manual.) This does not affect your edit points, just "plays" thru them differently.

However, remember, this only affects playback from the HDD, DVD-R/RW(VR), and -RAM. It does not affect playback of std VM DVDs.

vincentnyc

10-17-06, 05:39 PM

DVR = Digital Video Recorder (without DVD burning ability,) DVDR = DVD Recorder (with burning ability,) Which do you want?

There are plenty of DVRs available, but DVD can't realistically handle HD due to a lack of space. Blue-ray (HD) recorders are starting to show up...Panasonic I think.

dvr with plenty of space and cheap of course.

ACPewty

10-17-06, 05:45 PM

dvr with plenty of space and cheap of course.Try the Digital Recorders (PVRs) General (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=30&f=100) forum

ACPewty

10-17-06, 06:21 PM

Sorry if this is getting confusing. ;)

If your primary concern is to retain your frame-accurate editing during playback, as you said with emphasis, Seamless Playback should be OFF. (See pg 116 of manual.) This does not affect your edit points, just "plays" thru them differently.

However, remember, this only affects playback from the HDD, DVD-R/RW(VR), and -RAM. It does not affect playback of std VM DVDs.Ah yes, I forgot that to keep frame accurate editing and seamless playback, you have to edit at key frames (00 or 15) which of course means you may have to edit other than where you want to. :( If exact frame accuracy is that important to you zhenerale, turn off seamless playback and live with the slight pauses.

wajo

10-17-06, 06:26 PM

zhenerale, in your quest for "frame accuracy," are you eventually going to end up with std VM DVDs to play in other machines?

If not, you can stay in the VR world w/o problem, but I'd hate to retain frame accuracy throughout a long process, then end up with that accuracy destoyed by a HS copy to VM DVD!

To each his own, of course, but I'd rather try to edit to the closest key frame I could find...black frames 1st priority, of course...using VM editing, then being assured my edit points would be retained in a HS copy to the "final" VM DVD. :)

vincentnyc

10-17-06, 08:08 PM

what is the difference between vr mode vs video mode?

Logic Design

10-17-06, 09:17 PM

Anyone interested in Testing WideScreesn Signaling recording in their 640?
Looking for volunteers to run the a special verson of Video Filter which allows
you to record the correct aspect ratio based on what the user selects.

Budget_HT has tested it with his 520 and works fine. He reports results in here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=734367

suplex

10-17-06, 09:53 PM

vincentnyc

10-17-06, 10:05 PM

what is the difference between vr mode vs video mode?

any1 ^^^^^^?

LJM

10-17-06, 10:26 PM

are you using an ir blaster with ur pioneer dvr 640. if so, which one? how much is it? can you provide a link where u bought it from? thx in advance.

i have been looking for an ir blaster for my 640.

i owned my ir blaster long before i bought the 543 (543 = 640 but with only 80GB HDD).
my ir blaster is "VCR Commander" purchased through Rogers Cable (Ont Canada)

I learned from member dvdiva to turn on the dvdr and set to HDD before "testing" the Pioneer code 0072, and right away it triggered the dvdr to begin recording, proving the test successful Now i can select tv program or movie from tv guide directly on Rogers digital terminal box, negating any programming or scheduling on the dvdr itself. Wonderful.

The catch: must leave dvdr on all night so it is ready to respond to the ir blaster

wajo

10-18-06, 02:40 PM

I did some "quicky" tests to "prove" how accurate the "Erase Section" edits turn out using Video-Mode (VM) editing and copying to a VM DVD at high-speed (HS).

I recorded short sections of CNBC, which has lots of "swishes" across the screen and charts that draw one frame at a time. I tried to catch a "swish" or a chart-draw while still in motion. (I found out you can't tell accuracy by cutting a section just before and just after a screen move... nothing left to "check" if there is no identifiable movement at the edit point.)

I recorded to, edited in, and HS-copied from both VM- and VR-mode HDD, just to see if it made any difference. To make sure I could select VM editing for both VM and VR HDD, I didn't insert a VM disc in advance. This allowed me to choose VM editing when the option dialog appeared.

I used the Copy menu (the "preferred" method for editing) to erase several sections that had "easily" identifiable screen moves, choosing the most identifiable moving objects within the 15-frame margin (key frames) of VM editing.

After several edits, I HS-copied to a Video-Mode DVD from both the VM and VR HDD.

I found that, with a VM HDD, a HS copy appeared to retain my VM edit points within ~2-3 frames (could be 1-2 but not "right on"), and with a VR HDD, the edit points were "right on." It was difficult to really tell for sure if there was any diff. between VM and VR HDD, but the VR seemed to be in the exact same places I remembered setting.

To be "absolutely" sure, a person would need a frame counter, like a "time code" on screen while editing. Maybe someone with a camcorder that allows time-code to be displayed on a recording...or just a recording of a show that had time-code for some reason (a movie about network news, video production, etc.)...could try these tests...in case anyone is really interested in that level of detail?

[If trying this test yourself, when "stepping" thru an edit point frame-by-frame, the pic will "jump ahead" one or even two frames, probably due to the "orphan" MPEG-2 frames created by the edit...also the "probable" cause of the infamous pause. You'll need to advance thru the edit, then back one or two frames to see the "actual" frames that join at the edit point.]

AndyInWpg

10-18-06, 03:46 PM

Also, the FF feature isn't as functional at faster speeds on +R and it is on -R. I recommend you stick to -R or -RW media on the 640 for best results.
Does anyone know the cause of this limitation? With the abundance of +Rs and +R DLs I was thinking of using these, but without FF and without auto chapters, there's a bit of work required to make them navigable.
Andy...

Sean Nelson

10-18-06, 04:31 PM

On the Pioneer website when looking up the 640's specs it mentions that the Video Digital to Analog conversion rate was 10-bit/108MHz. They say that the higher the bitrate the better. On the 633 they list 10-bit/54MHz. What's the difference in MHz mean? The 640 is double of the older model. Is that good? Or does it really matter?The DAC is used to convert digital to analogue, so it's only used during playback and won't affect the quality of the recording.

Essentially the DAC generates the analogue output that goes to your display. The higher the MHz, the faster the output can change, which translates into smaller "pixels" on the screen. The number of vertical pixels is fixed by the fact that the image is transmitted as a series of scan lines, but resolution along each of the horizontal lines is determined by how fast the DAC can switch.

I'm no expert, but here's how I figure it:

The display draws 525 horizontal lines 30 times a second (actually it's interlaced and draws half that many lines 60 times a second, but it works out to about the same thing). So in one second, there are about 16,000 lines being drawn (give or take, some of the time is used for retrace). That means that each line takes about 1/16,000th of a second to draw, about 60 microseconds or 60,000 nanoseconds.

A 54MHz DAC can switch on from one pixel to the next 54 million times per second, which means it can switch from one pixel to the next in 1/54,000,000th of a second, 20 nanoseconds. 60,000 nanoseconds to draw a line divided by 20 nanoseconds to switch means 3,000 switches per scan line. You need to oversample to regenerate an image, so that should work out to around 1500 horizontal pixels that could be displayed on a scan line. That's way more than you need for a DVD, so I doubt the higher frequency DAC would make much visible difference. They're could be using it because the industry is shifting to higher speed DACs for HDTVs, and the older parts may be getting more expensive or harder to find.

Here's a page (http://www-mtl.mit.edu/Courses/6.111/labkit/vga.shtml) that shows resolutions for DACs of various speeds that comes out to within 25% or so of what I calculated above.

Rupton23

10-18-06, 07:17 PM

Wow Sean!

Now that's an answer! Certainly more than I was expecting! Thanks for clearing that up for me. Of course now I have a headache from following all that math stuff.

Thanks again, Bob

vincentnyc

10-18-06, 09:31 PM

questions:

1. while u watching a recording show, can you delete commercials?

2. can u burn dvd, vcd movies to the dvr 640 for a later viewing?

suplex

10-18-06, 09:41 PM

questions:

1. while u watching a recording show, can you delete commercials?

No, while watching a show that is currently recording, you can't delete commercials within that same show.

2. can u burn dvd, vcd movies to the dvr 640 for a later viewing?

If the movie is copy protected, you can't get it on the Hard Drive so you can watch it later. You can't even use the Back-Up feature if it's protected.

wajo

10-18-06, 10:30 PM

questions:

1. while u watching a recording show, can you delete commercials?
Just a clarification, if you are in a Timer recording, you can't delete commercials.
But, if you just press the REC button to record a broadcast show...a manual recording...you can press PAUSE at the beginning of a commercial, then PAUSE again at the end of a commercial, and that will "delete" the commercial, and it will place a Chapter mark there.

LJM

10-18-06, 10:32 PM

... Not sure how good leaving it on for extended periods is in terms of HDD wear & tear. Also, if you set TIMER REC on the 543 on occasion as well as use the IR blaster, the 543 will turn itself off shortly after a TIMER REC is done. The IR blaster won't work until the Pio is turned back on. ...

Your solution works great for me. To recap, DVDR left on, program set through Rogers cable box, when start time is reached it triggers ir blaster which triggers record in the already-on DVDR already set to HDD. When end time is reached, ir blaster stops the recording, but DVDR stays on all night unless I were to also program the end time into the DVDR (I prefer to avoid this dual programming)

But I too worry that the HDD being on all night will cause shortened lifetime. Would like to think the HDD stops spinning and goes into sleep mode after X hours of non-use with DVDR on, but it seems to keep humming (spinning?!) all night.

vincentnyc

10-18-06, 10:44 PM

wajo

10-18-06, 10:53 PM

Let me clear it up for my 1 previous question. Let say u recorded an earlier show. Then began to watch it at a later time. I know u can skip commercial. But can u delete commercial also while watching the recorded show?
Man, what a difference it makes between "recording" and "recorded!"

You normally "watch" a recorded show by selecting it in Disc Navigator (select and press PLAY button), but you have to get into the "EDIT" menu to erase commercials.

To Edit, select show in Disc Nav, right-arrow to "EDIT" then "Erase Section." Edits you make here will "permanently" change the recorded show (the "original"). Watching the show while making these edits is "possible" but not very "pleasing" or "normal."

If you do the same edits in the COPY menu...say, before you make a DVD copy...your edits will not affect the ORIGINAL show in Disc Nav.

dvdiva

10-18-06, 10:57 PM

Your solution works great for me. To recap, DVDR left on, program set through Rogers cable box, when start time is reached it triggers ir blaster which triggers record in the already-on DVDR already set to HDD. When end time is reached, ir blaster stops the recording, but DVDR stays on all night unless I were to also program the end time into the DVDR (I prefer to avoid this dual programming)

But I too worry that the HDD being on all night will cause shortened lifetime. Would like to think the HDD stops spinning and goes into sleep mode after X hours of non-use with DVDR on, but it seems to keep humming (spinning?!) all night.

Glad I could help! It would be nice to know if anyone else has any long-term experience with a cable box IR blaster controlling the 640 or previous years' models and the issue of Hard Drive wear and tear.

Although I have the Rogers cable IR blaster, it is not a reliable enough recording method for me to use exclusively, so I rarely use it anymore.

Logic Design

10-18-06, 11:02 PM

No, while watching a show that is currently recording, you can't delete commercials within that same show.

If the movie is copy protected, you can't get it on the Hard Drive so you can watch it later. You can't even use the Back-Up feature if it's protected.

This would not be the case if you can control the copying process and insert a
"Copy Once" CGMS command in the video stream. You can do this and more with the Video Filter

Budget_HT

10-18-06, 11:06 PM

Man, what a difference it makes between "recording" and "recorded!"

You normally "watch" a recorded show by selecting it in Disc Navigator (select and press PLAY button), but you have to get into the "EDIT" menu to erase commercials.

To Edit, select show in Disc Nav, right-arrow to "EDIT" then "Erase Section." Edits you make here will "permanently" change the recorded show (the "original"). Watching the show while making these edits is "possible" but not very "pleasing" or "normal."

If you do the same edits in the COPY menu...say, before you make a DVD copy...your edits will not affect the ORIGINAL show in Disc Nav.

On my 520H, I can add chapter marks while playing a DVD. After placing chapter marks before and after each commercial I later go into Chapter Edit and delete the chapters containing the commercials.

If I don't want to eatch the entire program, I simply FF to advance to the next commercial, make my marks before and after, then FF again to the next commercial and repeat ...

Is this same process workable on the 640? I heard the remote lacked a chapter mark button, so maybe my approach won't work on the 640?

wajo

10-18-06, 11:24 PM

On my 520H, I can add chapter marks while playing a DVD. After placing chapter marks before and after each commercial I later go into Chapter Edit and delete the chapters containing the commercials.

If I don't want to eatch the entire program, I simply FF to advance to the next commercial, make my marks before and after, then FF again to the next commercial and repeat ...

Is this same process workable on the 640? I heard the remote lacked a chapter mark button, so maybe my approach won't work on the 640?
I don't think the 640 can do the same as your 520...it has only Chapter editing as a distinct function...no easy "marking" for later deleting. :(

Would be nice to have, tho'.

wajo

10-19-06, 12:00 AM

Does anyone know the cause of this limitation? With the abundance of +Rs and +R DLs I was thinking of using these, but without FF and without auto chapters, there's a bit of work required to make them navigable.
Andy...
The 640 has auto-chapters for DVD+R/RW...it's a separate setting in Initial Setup > Recording menu. You can also FF but not at as many "speeds" as -R/RW.

A few interesting good and bad features of the +R/RW disc are:
1. Longest rec mode is SLP (8 hours), but that only leaves out MN1, 2 and 3.
2. Titles rec at MN6 or lower can't be HS copied to DVD+R/RW.
3. PREV button might not always skip to previous title.
4. Can edit and record even finalized +RW DVD...finalizing not reqd, but it only creates the title menu anyway. If you edit or record to a finalized +RW, it only "deletes" the title menu and you can redo with another finalization. Also, finalization can be undone.

Try the +R/RW...you might like them, but you won't know for sure until you try!?

kjbawc

10-19-06, 03:11 AM

I tried to combine two chapters (that were made as a result of editing something out. In the Copy List but I got the same warning (you cannot combine chapters where edits have been made....blah blah) as when trying to combine chapters in the Disc Nav screen. So that seems to differ with what you have found.

I wanted to try combining chapters in the copy list again, but haven't had time. Perhaps I used a chapter mark I had inserted to use to find a thumbnail, so there was no deletion. But, if it can combine separate titles, why the heck wouldn't it combine chapters?

Urlee

10-19-06, 08:15 AM

Let me clear it up for my 1 previous question. Let say u recorded an earlier show. Then began to watch it at a later time. I know u can skip commercial. But can u delete commercial also while watching the recorded show?

If it is a show I know I want to save, B4 watching it, I do as Wabjxo says, go to Erase Section, then I forward scan @ 3 (can't keep up with 4) to erase all the commercials, THEN I watch the show peacefully.

Urlee ;)

Logic Design

10-19-06, 08:37 AM

That filter sounds kind of interesting, it couldn't possibly hurt my Pioneer 640...could it?

I am interested in finding out more about what would be involved in testing my 640 with it though. What do I have to do?

The tests performed by Budget_HT and would like to be done on a 640 are posted here

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8619528#post8619528

vincentnyc

10-19-06, 09:30 AM

If it is a show I know I want to save, B4 watching it, I do as Wabjxo says, go to Erase Section, then I forward scan @ 3 (can't keep up with 4) to erase all the commercials, THEN I watch the show peacefully.

Urlee ;)

what do u mean "forward scan @ 3 (can't keep up with 4)?" do u mean u press the "skip commercial" button 3 times?

wajo

10-19-06, 09:51 AM

Hey, I might have finally found one reason there are "warnings" and "cautions" re: not being able to copy to Video-mode DVD in high speed with HDD set to "Video-mode Off" (VR mode). Many tests ago, I found that was NOT true....however...

There are apparently some rec mode "speeds" that won't HS copy from VR HDD to VM DVD, as stated in this item from pg 82 of the manual:

"When HDD Recording Format is set to Video Mode Off, titles recorded in LP/MN9 to MN15 modes cannot be highspeed copied to a Video mode disc. Please use a VR mode DVD-R/-RW or DVD-RAM."

All my tests have been with SP mode, so this is something to consider if you need to set HDD for Video-mode Off and "often" record at LP speed (or MN9-15 if using manual speeds)?

It appears the warnings in the manual and some menus might have come from their trying to save people from running into this "limited" inability after it's too late?

zhenerale

10-19-06, 11:25 AM

Thanks for the continual work and update.

I'll have to "play" around with various settings to see how I best can get frame accurate edits while being able to high-speed dub.

Once I have that, I'll have to see if these DVD-R's play in my other DVD players.

ACPewty

10-19-06, 12:47 PM

Urlee

10-19-06, 12:57 PM

what do u mean "forward scan @ 3 (can't keep up with 4)?" do u mean u press the "skip commercial" button 3 times?

Vince,
When you are in the Erase Section, you can watch the movie in a smaller box on the upper left.
If you click on that button in the graphic, it speeds it up. From normal to 1x, where you can still hear their voices.
Another click makes it go faster, 2x and voiceless. Then the next click is 3x. 4x is the limit. The reason for the speeds is to get from the begining to the end of what you want erased so you do not have to sit through it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/urlee/Button.jpg

Hands on, makes it easier to see what I try to explain.

Urlee

ACPewty

10-19-06, 01:14 PM

Vince,
When you are in the Erase Section, you can watch the movie in a smaller box on the upper left.
If you click on that button in the graphic, it speeds it up. From normal to 1x, where you can still hear their voices.
Another click makes it go faster, 2x and voiceless. Then the next click is 3x. 4x is the limit. The reason for the speeds is to get from the begining to the end of what you want erased so you do not have to sit through it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/urlee/Button.jpg

Hands on, makes it easier to see what I try to explain.

UrleeExcellent post!

The only caveat is if vincentnyc is viewing a DVD+R or editing on a DVD+RW, he won't get the highest "gears" when fast forwarding.

AndyInWpg

10-19-06, 04:31 PM

The 640 has auto-chapters for DVD+R/RW...it's a separate setting in Initial Setup > Recording menu. You can also FF but not at as many "speeds" as -R/RW.

A few interesting good and bad features of the +R/RW disc are:
1. Longest rec mode is SLP (8 hours), but that only leaves out MN1, 2 and 3.
2. Titles rec at MN6 or lower can't be HS copied to DVD+R/RW.
3. PREV button might not always skip to previous title.
4. Can edit and record even finalized +RW DVD...finalizing not reqd, but it only creates the title menu anyway. If you edit or record to a finalized +RW, it only "deletes" the title menu and you can redo with another finalization. Also, finalization can be undone.

Try the +R/RW...you might like them, but you won't know for sure until you try!?
Thanks for the good information. I have actually created a few +Rs but yesterday felt like backtracking when I saw the FF limitation. But today I think I will use them as planned.
The FF thing is strange. I created a +R DL on my computer which the Pioneer is able to fast forward at high speed. And I recorded a +R DL on the Pioneer which a standalone DVD player (Panasonic DVD-S35 with recent firmware upgrade) was able to fast forward at high speed. So it's not that the disc is created improperly. That makes me feel much better about this.

Thanks again to both of you (AC and wabjxo) for making me aware of the limitations.
Andy...