Pioneer DVR 640h-S User Reports. [Text View] - Page 8

wajo

11-09-06, 03:41 PM

In doing some tests, I found something I didn't know before about simultaneous HDD/DVD activity on the 640. I haven't seen this reported before...if so, consider this a "reinforcement"?

With timer recording to the HDD in progress:

1. CAN edit other titles on the HDD, both originals and copy-list titles, in VM or VR mode.

2. CAN high-speed (HS) copy another recorded title from HDD to DVD.

3. CANNOT make a real-time copy
(by changing the Rec Mode from HS to a different mode (XP, SP, etc.).

I also "firmed up" some other info I posted before on Editing. I found a way to test for frame-accuracy better. With VM-mode editing (nearest key frame, 00 or 15), those frames are retained "right-on" after a HS copy. The frames you "see" at 00 or 15 when you select From and To are the frames that will be retained in the HS copy.

You cannot get frame accuracy at other-than-key frames ("Frame Accurate Editing") if your end-product will be a VM DVD...during Copy, the 640 will tell you the disc type is wrong, insert a VR-mode disc. You CAN get frame accuracy if you stay in VR mode, and there will be no pauses at the edit points...except you just can't end up with a widely compatible VM DVD.

Although my previous tests in June (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=691617) proved you can HS copy a VR-mode disc to HDD and then HS Copy that to a VM DVD, that was without any frame-accurate editing. Once you make even one frame-accurate edit, you won't be able to HS Copy that title to a VM DVD....only to a VR-mode DVD.

I tried one last test, trying to "fool" the 640, by recording, editing and copying all in VR/Frame Accurate mode, then HS copying that VR-mode DVD (with no pauses and edits at exact points selected) back to the HDD at HS. Then, I copied that all-VR-mode title back to a VM DVD at HS no problem, but got the "edit points will move" message, and they did move quite a few frames (back to key frames).

So, there appears to be no way to force or even "fool" HS Copy into producing a VM DVD with frame-accurate edit points, altho' you can get absolute accuracy at the normal VM edit points (00 and 15).

bobkart

11-09-06, 03:56 PM

With timer recording to the HDD in progress:
...
3. CANNOT make a real-time copyMakes sense since there is just one MPEG encoder and it is busy with the timer recording.

timelord42

11-09-06, 06:45 PM

I have a Direct TV HD box and will the Pioneer 640 except the 480P through a s-video cable? I know that it will not record at this but will it even except it?

Thanks...

bobkart

11-09-06, 06:48 PM

No.

wajo

11-10-06, 01:11 PM

In case you haven't tried yet, you can easily make an audio DVD from a music CD in your Pio 640.

Here's my test results. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8864643#post8864643)

BaltimoreStan

11-10-06, 07:47 PM

suplex

11-10-06, 09:11 PM

bobkart

11-10-06, 09:46 PM

I think he will still lose the Chapter marks when he real-time copies from HDD to DVD.

I'm surprised you didn't get automatically-inserted Chapter marks though. That's what I get with a real-time copy on the 633.

One option would be to high-speed copy to Dual/Double-Layer DVD. Around 115 minutes is the limit there. Another option would be to divide the Title in half (or more, as necessary), putting up to ~64 minutes on each single-layer DVD.

What's really missing is the ability to add Chapters on DVD prior to Finalization. This is one of the more glaring defects of this otherwise fine recorder.

ACPewty

11-11-06, 12:03 AM

What's really missing is the ability to add Chapters on DVD prior to Finalization.Agreed, although that only applies to video mode on the 640. You can add chapter marks direct to VR mode DVD recordings. Is that not also the case for the 633?

bobkart

11-11-06, 12:08 AM

Probably but I don't use VR mode.

ACPewty

11-11-06, 12:21 AM

I timer-recorded Victor/Victoria to the HD in XP mode because I didn't think to precompute the right MN mode (19 or 20). Then I carefully edied in frame-accurate chapter stops and burned a DVD in MN19. When I tested the finalized disk on a DVD player it was one long chapter, and I remembered that real-mode does lose chapter stops.

My question: the movie is still on my HD in XP mode, with the chapter stops. Is there anything at all I can do to get it onto a DVD-R with my chapter stops, or do I have to wait for TCM to schedule it again and this time record it directly in MN19?If you really want to put it on one single layer DVD you can but you'll have to add your chapter marks again. You have 2 choices:

1) If you don't mind leaving the recording in VR mode, do an optimized copy to a VR mode DVD and then add your chapter marks again directly on the DVD before finalizing.

2) If you want a video mode DVD for better compatibility, do step 1 and then high-speed copy from the VR mode DVD to the HDD. Then do a high-speed copy from the new HDD copy to a video mode DVD which will retain the chapter marks.

If you choose step 2, of course you could redo the chapter marks either on the VR mode DVD (as in step 1) or on the HDD before the final copy to video mode DVD...your choice.

Probably more work than you'd like, but it does get the job done. If you really want it on one single layer DVD, then you may prefer to wait to re-record at the right MN bitrate in the first place because any method to fit on a single layer DVD forces a 2nd encode with a slight loss of pq.

If it would fit on a dual layer or 2 single layer DVDs, that would be my recommendation but I see it runs 132 minutes with credits so in XP mode it may not fit even if you cut the credits. :(

dvdiva

11-11-06, 12:37 AM

Dmon4u

11-11-06, 10:38 AM

I've never heard of "Matsushita"

Panasonic !

Oiler1

11-11-06, 03:51 PM

bobkart

11-11-06, 04:06 PM

A High-Speed copy will move the edit points to the nearest GOP boundary. That's because GOPs are indivisible (each is half a second in length). This is true even in VR mode as far as I know. Only by doing a Real-Time Copy can you preserve Frame Accuracy in your edit points.

aschen2000

11-11-06, 05:00 PM

bobkart

11-11-06, 05:05 PM

I believe DVD-RAM is CPRM compatible.

wajo

11-11-06, 05:24 PM

Searched the thread but haven't seen the answer to my question. I have the DVR-640H-S and I can record "copy once" protected movies from my cable box (HBO, etc) to the HDD, but I get a "cannot copy to disk" or "disk not cprm compatible" message when I try to copy movie from HDD to DVD, or directly on to the DVD. I'm using Verbatim 16x DVD-R ver 2.1 media formated in VR mode and the manual suggests this media should be ok. Is this not CPRM compatible? If not can anyone recommend a "compatible" media?
Thanks, Alan
One experiment you can try rather easily...

Next time you want to record a copy-once show, set your HDD for "Video Mode Off" (VR mode), then see if you can copy to a Video-mode disc.

According to the manual, you should be able to record to the HDD or a VR-mode DVD, but I believe setting the HDD to VR mode for the original recording might help...at least, it will be interesting to see if any difference???

wajo

11-11-06, 05:35 PM

I haven't read all the previous posts so forgive me. I tried to create chapters at precise points to edit out the commercials but find after I copied to a DVD-RW that they "drift". I tried this both on the Video mode and frame edit mode. I thought I can be presise to the frame in the VR mode? After I editted I copied and I think it was high speed. Is this why my chapter points drift? What is the exact procedure for copying to ensure the edit points are correct?
If you really have to have precise edit points retained in a DVD copy, you will have to make a real-time (RT) copy. However, this loses any chapters you create, replacing those with chapter marks at intervals you set in Initial Setup.

My tests have proved that you can maintain precise edits from HDD to Video-Mode (VM) DVD copied at high speed if you can accept, and set, the VM-forced edit points at frames 00 and 15. If placed in black fades, you can also eliminate the pauses that are most noticeable with a HS copy. (A RT copy has less-noticeable pauses because it re-encodes the edited video stream and smoothes it out, so to speak.)

aschen2000

11-11-06, 05:45 PM

Thanks for the replies. I thought the same way. I have tried copying to HDD with video mode off and on. In both cases I get the message "The copy list contains copy-once protected material. This disk cannot be used" If I try recording directly to disk, the message becomes "Cannot record to a disk that is not CPRM compatible". In both cases the disks are VR mode formated (as they suggest). Think the disks themselves may not be CPRM compatible. Guess I'll try a different brand, or switch to -RW's or RAM's - would be neet to know what would work in advance.

BaltimoreStan

11-11-06, 09:20 PM

If you really want to put it on one single layer DVD you can but you'll have to add your chapter marks again. You have 2 choices:

1) If you don't mind leaving the recording in VR mode, do an optimized copy to a VR mode DVD and then add your chapter marks again directly on the DVD before finalizing.

2) If you want a video mode DVD for better compatibility, do step 1 and then high-speed copy from the VR mode DVD to the HDD. Then do a high-speed copy from the new HDD copy to a video mode DVD which will retain the chapter marks.

Thanks to AC and others who responded. I definitely want the final product in Video Mode so I can play it on my regular player. I'm not motivated to make three more recordings (VR DVD-RW, back to HDD, then final recording), so I think I'll wait till the show comes around again and record it in MN19.

I blame the forum. :) Without you guys I wouldn't be fooling around with MN record modes in the first place.

Seriously, it's good to know. I'll be planning ahead for record speed from here on in.

Stan

BaltimoreStan

11-11-06, 09:26 PM

ACPewty

11-11-06, 10:30 PM

ACPewty

11-11-06, 10:36 PM

I had posted about this a week or so ago. Just to wrap up this issue, I did replace my composite video cable with S-Video as suggested. It may have made a marginal improvement in the clarity of the fonts, or it may not -- hard to say without a side-by-side comparison. It's still very hard to tell e.g. the difference betwen ch 6 and ch 8 -- last week I missed /House/ on ch 8 because I recorded to ch 6 instead. :(

I guess the poor-quality menu font is just something I'll have to live with.

On the other hand, unless I'm fooling myself the S-Video cable did make a noticeable improvement in PQ when I play a recorded program.

By the way, thanks to ? AC for recommending Monoprice.com. I ordered on Sunday and had my cables Thursday via USPS first class. Prices and shipping charges were quite reasonable. The only down side was that I think they use too much plastic to triple-wrap the cables. :)LOL, I forgot about the wrap on the cables. I think I struggled with it for a while myself. :)

Sorry to hear the s-video cable didn't make a bigger difference with your on-screen menus. I know the font isn't the greatest, but even on my smaller 20" TV there is no mistaking a 6 from an 8 unless I sit pretty far away. What size screen are you using, and how far do you sit from it? Also, do you have another TV you could try just out of curiosity?

BaltimoreStan

11-12-06, 07:00 AM

Sorry to hear the s-video cable didn't make a bigger difference with your on-screen menus. I know the font isn't the greatest, but even on my smaller 20" TV there is no mistaking a 6 from an 8 unless I sit pretty far away. What size screen are you using, and how far do you sit from it? Also, do you have another TV you could try just out of curiosity?

Hello, AC. I have a 27-inch Panasonic, and I sit 8 to 10 feet from it. (I'm too lazy to go and measure just now. :) ) I've tried standing a couple of feet from it when programming, and that's only marginally better. It's not that the characters are too small, it's that they're not crisp. The font is fairly thin and spidery, but the big problem is that there's what you might call "color smearing". If you have an LCD screen on a Windows computer, and you don't have Clear Type turned on, you'll see exactly what I mean.

This is my only TV, but it's not the TV because the Pioneer 633 menus were just fine and easily readable from my chair. This is a significant disappointment for me with the 640, and definitely hurts the usability.

wajo

11-12-06, 10:23 AM

Hello, AC. I have a 27-inch Panasonic, and I sit 8 to 10 feet from it. (I'm too lazy to go and measure just now. :) ) I've tried standing a couple of feet from it when programming, and that's only marginally better. It's not that the characters are too small, it's that they're not crisp. The font is fairly thin and spidery, but the big problem is that there's what you might call "color smearing". If you have an LCD screen on a Windows computer, and you don't have Clear Type turned on, you'll see exactly what I mean.

This is my only TV, but it's not the TV because the Pioneer 633 menus were just fine and easily readable from my chair. This is a significant disappointment for me with the 640, and definitely hurts the usability.
Grasping at straws, long distance, but it sounds like it may have something to do with interlace vs. progressive (the "spidery" letters).

One thing to check and/or try:

While in a menu, press and hold the STOP button on the front panel, then press the PLAY button. This switches the 640 from one scan mode to the other (Interlace/Progressive). See what effect, if any, that has...screen may go black or blank if wrong setting.

If no help, there may be a problem with the fonts themselves...they are FontAvenue fonts licensed from NEC. If that is the source of the problem, a hard reset might "reset" the font pkg properly??? (Press STOP and STANDBY/ON buttons on front panel with unit on. This loses preset Timer Rec programs, clock, etc., but does not affect things rec. on HDD.)

As a point of ref., I can see my menu fonts fine from 15' on my 51" rear-proj. screen.

BaltimoreStan

11-12-06, 12:49 PM

Grasping at straws, long distance, but it sounds like it may have something to do with interlace vs. progressive (the "spidery" letters).

One thing to check and/or try:

While in a menu, press and hold the STOP button on the front panel, then press the PLAY button. This switches the 640 from one scan mode to the other (Interlace/Progressive). See what effect, if any, that has...screen may go black or blank if wrong setting.

If no help, there may be a problem with the fonts themselves...they are FontAvenue fonts licensed from NEC. If that is the source of the problem, a hard reset might "reset" the font pkg properly??? (Press STOP and STANDBY/ON buttons on front panel with unit on. This loses preset Timer Rec programs, clock, etc., but does not affect things rec. on HDD.)

As a point of ref., I can see my menu fonts fine from 15' on my 51" rear-proj. screen.

Thanks for trying.

Just to give an example, on the Disc Navigator screen (or is it Timer Recording? -- the TV's in the other room and walking back to the computer I forgot which screen I was on :confused: ) contains the words "HDD remain" to show remaining HDD space. On my screen that looks exactly like "HDD remaln" -- the blank pixel is filled in between the vertical stroke and dot of the letter "i". That's what I mean by "smearing".

Anyway, when I press and hold Stop on front panel and press Play, nothing happens. I'm fairly sure my TV is interlaced not progressive, so I expectyed a blank screen, but there was no change at all that I could see.

STOP + Standby did indeed force a reset, and I had to reestablish my channels and recordings. It was worth a try, but unfortunately it didn't fix the font problem.

Thanks anyway for responding. Maybe the firmware upgrade that fixes the problem with titles of timed recordings will also fix the font problem. ;)

I wonder if I just got a defective unit? That would make Pioneer 0 for 2 with me, which I'd hate to believe. I'm trying vto think of someone who will let me hook up my recorder to their TV and check the appearance of the fonts.

wajo

11-12-06, 02:01 PM

Anyway, when I press and hold Stop on front panel and press Play, nothing happens. I'm fairly sure my TV is interlaced not progressive, so I expectyed a blank screen, but there was no change at all that I could see.
EDITED after finding your TV type...std 27" CRT?

Just to make sure, go to INITIAL SETUP > VIDEO IN/OUT and make sure it's set for Interlace (the default)?

Since you've just switched from Composite to S-Video, the last "gasp" would be a Component connection from 640 to TV, if your TV has such a connection...that would be your very best PQ...except Component cables are slightly "pricey" even at Wal-Mart (but they have a great Return policy).

The only other thing might be a TV setting...sharpness, contrast, color, etc.??????????

BaltimoreStan

11-12-06, 07:46 PM

EDITED after finding your TV type...std 27" CRT?

Just to make sure, go to INITIAL SETUP > VIDEO IN/OUT and make sure it's set for Interlace (the default)?

Since you've just switched from Composite to S-Video, the last "gasp" would be a Component connection from 640 to TV, if your TV has such a connection...that would be your very best PQ...except Component cables are slightly "pricey" even at Wal-Mart (but they have a great Return policy).

The only other thing might be a TV setting...sharpness, contrast, color, etc.??????????

Hi, and thanks again for trying to help.

Yes, it's set for interlace. I still wonder why I didn't get a black screen when I followed your instruction to change it to progressive.

The TV doesn't have component video inputs -- S-Video is the best I can do.

I'll try tweaking the TV's settings but I don't expect much there because it's just the same as it was when I had the 633 hooked up, and everything was fine. Regular picture is still just fine -- it's only the text generated by the 640 itself.

[pause]

I just thought of an experiment to try. I took a DVD burned by the 640 and one burned by the 633 and put thm in my stand-alone Sony player. (Not at the same time. :) ) Both DVD menu texts looked sharp. Then I put the DVD burned by the 640 into the 640, and the text on the DVD menu looked bad.

There's something about the video output from the 633, I don't know what. It affects text but not (as far as I can see) picture. I don't think there's any useful setting I can make on the 640's video output, is there? I'm going to dig out the TV's manual and see if I can change video input settings per device.

David Susilo

11-12-06, 08:18 PM

I haven't read the entire thread, but have you checked the output setting? (do you have it on "TV", "Professional", or "PDP" or "Memory" 1/2/3?) The way to access this menu is by playing a DVD, then press setup menu and go to "output setting" (or something like that).

I'm currently not at home so I can't check the actual name for them.

wajo

11-12-06, 08:28 PM

David's referring to the Video Adjust Menu, where you can set PQ for disc playback...with a disc playing.

Check pg 108 of the manual for "Creating your own set" of playback quality settings...maybe one of those will help...esp. since the 633 and 640 DVDs play differently???

By the way, the Interlace/Component switch affects the pic if using Component connections...in my case, with my particular interlaced TV and Composite connection, switching to Progressive gave me a black screen.

kjbawc

11-12-06, 10:22 PM

Baltimore Stan, I complained about the menu screeens very early in this thread. I find them indistinct, because of insufficient contrast between characters and backgrounds. They are just too pastel! I am a bit near sighted, but I find them hard to read on my 56" DLP RP TV, over component, or S-Vid. But I get a fine, sharp picture otherwise. My set has been adjusted with the AVIA disc.

You might make a special set of adjustments in the Video Adjust Menu that makes it clearer for you, and switch to that when you need to use the menu/disc navigator, etc. A pain in the neck, but might be worth it.

COPY LIST WORK-AROUND:
I have found an easy way around another problem which has bothered some of us. When making a copy list, when you enter a title, you usually get a graphic warning that edit points may move, and it is slow to clear. You don't have to wait! Just use an arrow indicator, right, up, or down. When you hit it, the graphic will disappear, and you can hit the arrow a second time, to go where you want to go! So, basically, you just double trigger an arrow for where you want to go, and there is no more waiting. :D

wajo

11-13-06, 08:35 PM

Something new to me I just discovered.

In checking my two pages of Timer Recordings, I noticed at the bottom of each page was a "Video Mode On" in addition to "HDD" and "SP."

I was surprised because I've been running my HDD with Video Mode OFF (VR mode) for awhile now. I wondered why the disparity, then realized I had set the Timer Rec programs when I had the HDD set for Video Mode ON.

Turns out there are two ways to set the HDD Rec Mode for Timer Rec programs: (1) Have the HDD in that mode while setting a program up, or (2) Change the HDD Rec Mode in the Detailed Settings of the Timer Rec menu.

SO.....it appears a person could set his/her HDD for VR or VM mode, thinking all Timer recordings to the HDD would be made in that mode. BUT, if you decide to change the HDD mode, new recordings based on the old timer programs would NOT be made in that new mode (they defaulted to the old mode when they were set).

This is just another thing for 640 owners to check if they are among those who use VR and VM mode at various times? It's easy to do since it shows up at the bottom of the Timer Recording lists as you scroll thru each program.

vincentnyc

11-13-06, 11:01 PM

any1 having this problem? i set it to "auto replace" the previous recording, but sometimes it does and sometime it doesn't. any1 know if this is a bug or how do i fix this?

instead i get 2 recordings i get 1.

kjbawc

11-14-06, 12:51 AM

THUMBNAILS AND DL DISCS:

If someone has mentioned this, and I forgot about it, pardon me. But, after making a DL disc of Fellini's La Dolce Vita, which is 174 minutes long, I noticed that the thumbnail ended up not being anything remotely near the one I had set. After a little investigation, I realized that while the one I had set was a frame on the second layer, the one that was used was the last frame on the first layer. So, be warned. Select a thumbnail from the first half of the title, not the second half, because you won't get a thumbnail from the second layer!

CruelInventions

11-14-06, 01:04 PM

David Susilo

11-14-06, 01:10 PM

NTSC only

wajo

11-14-06, 01:13 PM

ok, sorry for the remedial question, but..

Does this 640h-s recorder have a built in ATSC tuner? I know it has at least an NTSC tuner, but does it have both?

The reason I ask is, at present, I have an analog, non-digital/non-hd tv, and I'll be updating to a HD plasma panel soon. When I do purchase one, I will be wanting to see what OTA HD signals I can pick up, and I'm hoping I'll be able to do this with the 640h-s. Having this flexibility would be great, as I don't want to have to rely only on whatever ATSC/QAM comes built-in (if at all) to the display panel, or to rely upon a separate HD receiver to capture those free OTA HD channels.
Nom your 640 will only be able to tune, by itself, any analog channels you might receive.

If you had a STB, you could connect from that to your 640 and record the channels it receives...you'd have to use S-Video or Composite cable connections since your 640 needs a 480i signal.

With OTA, your HD channels will not be tunable w/the 640, but any other analog channels will. If your new TV will have an S-Video or Composite output, you could use the TV's tuner to send a 480i signal to one of your recorder's Line inputs, but you'd have to leave the TV on and tuned to whatever channel you wanted to record.

You could also split the antenna feed so you could tune any analog channels w/the 640 tuner, and separately tune any HD channels/signal w/the TV, AND have the same TV/640 line connection for recording HD channels w/TV on, as above. This way, you can watch an analog channel on your 640 and record an HD channel from the TV at the same time via the Line input.

CruelInventions

11-14-06, 01:34 PM

wajo

11-14-06, 01:50 PM

I don't think the analog "shut-down" is supposed to start 'till 2009, but I've read that date has changed...maybe even "go away" somehow if there's too much political flack (one can hope?). The govt is supposed to give a subsidy to help people buy converters...I've read $40 in one place, but no one's sure yet?

If you end up needing a digital converter for the 640 (http://www.nextag.com/digital-tv-tuner/search-html), here's a place to start reading about options currently available. A Google search for "digital TV tuner" will bring up lots more info.

CruelInventions

11-14-06, 02:24 PM

Right. I kind of skimmed over the exact date of the supposed changeover. More like 2.5 years, first quarter of 2009-ish. As you say, that may change yet again.

I only see the occasional HD tuner/receiver available, such as the Samsung one listed at the top of your linked list, but I've yet to see many other options. Most of the hd atsc tuner options are geared toward pc/Mac computer or media center setups. I'd love to find a tuner converter but I guess they aren't available yet.

Since the Pio only takes a 480i signal, I assume (and hope) it's possible with such a tuner converter, to be able to receive the digital channels, and convert them immediately to the 480i resolution that the 640h-s requires. I realize that I won't ever be able to record in HD or even 480p quality on the Pio recorder. But besides my previously stated hope that the Pio already has an atsc tuner capability built-in (now "ixnayed" by you :D ), my remaining concern is now simply the loss of flexibility in not having the use of the tuner in the 640h-s when we go all digital. I don't want to have to always rely on pass-through receptions, whether it be for viewing or recording purposes.

wajo

11-14-06, 02:46 PM

Try this. (http://cgi.*********/RCA-HD-High-Definition-Digital-TV-Tuner-ATSC11-DVI-HDTV_W0QQitemZ180047447349QQihZ008QQcategoryZ61396QQcmdZView Item)

Also, do a Google search for "HD digital TV tuner" for lots of other options.

CruelInventions

11-14-06, 03:17 PM

I can't get your link to work, as I assume, the forum deleted the name for whatever reason (whatever word preceeds "RCA" in your link coding is "*******" out).

and unless I am missing something, those "lots of other options" all pertain to computer and/or media center computer solutions. I suppose I can learn to build a media center computer, housing it in a component-like/horizontal style case and incorporate it into my equipment furniture, and get additional tuner functionality that way. Only problem is, I've never built a computer before, and I would prefer not having to learn! :D

bobkart

11-14-06, 04:01 PM

I think there are many ATSC tuners available, they may not yet be cost-effective or fit into your space limitations though.

wajo

11-14-06, 04:32 PM

wajo

11-14-06, 06:26 PM

Deleted....

Had a problem with HS Copy of mixed rec. mode/speed titles, can't re-create again.

wajo

11-14-06, 11:18 PM

Ref. my post above, I FINALLY found a good reason NOT to run your HDD with "Video Mode Off" (VR-mode) on a regular basis...which I've done up to now. :(

Any recordings made at LP or MN9-15 to a VR-mode HDD can't be high-speed copied to a Video-mode DVD! All other speeds can.

On pg 82 of manual all along! :eek:

vincentnyc

11-14-06, 11:51 PM

vincentnyc

11-14-06, 11:52 PM

btw..im using a imation dvd+rw 4x disc, if that helps.

wajo

11-14-06, 11:59 PM

ok i just try to copy hdd>dvd rw+ for the first time.

i selected the program i wanted to burn to my dvd rw+ disc. pop a brand new dvd rw+ disc into the device, then like 5 minutes...it said it finished copying. then i try to put the disc in my ps2, and it said "can't read disc." then try to put it on my laptop and it said i can open and ask me if i want to format it? so i said yes, but then it pop up with a message saying "it can't format it."

any1 know what is going and how how do i resolve it? thx in advance.
Probably need to "Finalize" it.

Normally, you select "Finalize" in the last Copy menu before you click "Copy"...it's above the Copy button in the menu.

Since you didn't do that, you should put it back in the 640 and go to "DISC SETUP" menu and select "Finalize."

If your other machines still won't read it after Finalizing, it may be that they can't read + format discs. You'll have to use - format then?

AAntilles

11-15-06, 12:11 AM

Just wanted to post a warning to anyone trying to use a DVD-RW recorded from the 640 in VR mode in a computer DVD drive. I was experimenting with a short TV program recorded at SP, just to see what I could do with it on my computer. When I ejected the disc, I got a warning from Nero INCD that it was writing to the disc. I didn't do anything except read from the disc in in Explorer, so I have no idea what it was doing. After a few seconds of writing, it ejected. I popped the DVD-RW back in the 640, and it was still able to play the disc, but the drive said there was no free space left, and I wasn't able to copy anything else to it. Somehow Nero INCD finalized the disc. So if you have INCD on your computer, watch what you're inserting into it!

kjbawc

11-15-06, 12:31 AM

darn. I was afraid of that.. THANKS for the detailed explanation and alternative suggestions, wabjxo. :)

So in two years, assuming the schedule for eliminating all analog channels is followed according to FCC plan, in order to use the tuner built into the 640h-s, we will need some sort of converter gizmo, the same ones that will be either provided or sold to those people who still have analog tuner televisions? If so, are these things available yet? I'm curious to know what they look like, particularly how large they will be. I only have so much space available in my entertainment cabinet!

If you are using cable, I think you have a LONG time before you will lose analog signals. If a cable company dropped analog, they would have to replace ALL of their analog boxes, and they would lose ALL of their customers that don't use boxes, unless they were willing to pony up for boxes. That would be a BIG hit at the bottom line!

ACPewty

11-15-06, 11:25 AM

When HDD Recording Format is set to Video Mode Off, titles recorded using low bitrates (MN9 to MN15) cannot be high-speed copied to a Video mode disc. (Must use a VR mode DVD-R/-RW or DVD-RAM) However, if recorded using HDD Recording Format = Video Mode On, you can high-speed copy to a Video Mode DVD. (I tested and confirmed this using MN9 bitrate recordings with both settings: Video Mode On and Off.)
Hey, I might have finally found one reason there are "warnings" and "cautions" re: not being able to copy to Video-mode DVD in high speed with HDD set to "Video-mode Off" (VR mode). Many tests ago, I found that was NOT true....however...

There are apparently some rec mode "speeds" that won't HS copy from VR HDD to VM DVD, as stated in this item from pg 82 of the manual:

"When HDD Recording Format is set to Video Mode Off, titles recorded in LP/MN9 to MN15 modes cannot be highspeed copied to a Video mode disc. Please use a VR mode DVD-R/-RW or DVD-RAM."

All my tests have been with SP mode, so this is something to consider if you need to set HDD for Video-mode Off and "often" record at LP speed (or MN9-15 if using manual speeds)?

It appears the warnings in the manual and some menus might have come from their trying to save people from running into this "limited" inability after it's too late?I recorded my music tests with Video Mode Off (VR-mode) and I wasn't able to high-speed copy the music I recorded in LP or MN9-15. If you don't use one of those HDD rec. modes, it won't make any difference. ;)Ref. my post above, I FINALLY found a good reason NOT to run your HDD with "Video Mode Off" (VR-mode) on a regular basis...which I've done up to now. :(

Any recordings made at LP or MN9-15 to a VR-mode HDD can't be high-speed copied to a Video-mode DVD! All other speeds can.

On pg 82 of manual all along! :eek:There it is again. There is definitely an echo in here.

For information on how to make a donation on wabjxo's behalf, visit here (http://www.alz.org/). :)

ACPewty

11-15-06, 11:38 AM

drgkja

11-15-06, 03:27 PM

640H owners-- can this baby be controlled (set channel, start-stop recording) with TV Guide/IR blaster that come with Pio 70 series plasmas? thanks

ACPewty

11-15-06, 03:36 PM

640H owners-- can this baby be controlled (set channel, start-stop recording) with TV Guide/IR blaster that come with Pio 70 series plasmas? thanksSome users have successfully controlled the 640 using Pioneer VCR codes, but it will only start/stop recording. You can't turn it on and off.

AAntilles

11-15-06, 04:11 PM

I believe InCD can be set to auto-format RW discs upon initial insertion.

My INCD isn't set for auto formating, but I do think that INCD recognizes the INCD formating as some sort of packet writing system, and rewrote key information on the disk to be closer to its own.

ACPewty

11-15-06, 04:42 PM

My INCD isn't set for auto formating, but I do think that INCD recognizes the INCD formating as some sort of packet writing system, and rewrote key information on the disk to be closer to its own.Curious. I gather this only happens with VR mode DVDs? Are you still able to reinitialize the disc with the 640?

vincentnyc

11-15-06, 09:16 PM

Probably need to "Finalize" it.

Normally, you select "Finalize" in the last Copy menu before you click "Copy"...it's above the Copy button in the menu.

Since you didn't do that, you should put it back in the 640 and go to "DISC SETUP" menu and select "Finalize."

If your other machines still won't read it after Finalizing, it may be that they can't read + format discs. You'll have to use - format then?

just came home and tried to "finalize" it. but the finalize is dimmed. when i tried to press enter on ther remote, it said it can't or incorrect format. then try to copy again and put it on my ps2, still said can't read disk. i then tried to play it on the 640, it works. then put it in my brother dvd player that can play all type of format, jpeg, etc. it works. then went to finalize and it was able to finalize. then put it in my ps2 again...didnt work. so i guess my ps2 can't play a dvd+rw.

AAntilles

11-15-06, 10:06 PM

Curious. I gather this only happens with VR mode DVDs? Are you still able to reinitialize the disc with the 640?

I just tried it again with the same results. Formatted a DVD-RW in VR mode, copied some files to, put it in my computer's DVD burner, looked at the files on it with Explorer, and pressed the eject button. INCD indicated it was writing to the DVD, and after a minute or so, it ejected. I inserted it in my 640, and the 640 said immediately that it could not write to this DVD as it had been finalized.

I could still reinitialize the DVD-RW on the 640 in VR mode and copy to it, so the disc wasn't physically damaged. I also tried initializing it in Video Mode, and copied a TV program to it. I inserted it in my computer's drive, but it was read as a blank disc. This makes sense, as only DVD+RW's are playable on stand-alone DVD players without finalizing. DVD-RW's in video mode apparently do not have their directories written until the are finalized.

The DVD-RW in video mode ejected without INCD writing to it. I was able to use it in the 640 again, and could continue writing to it. So this problem only occurs with DVD-RW's in VR mode. I have no idea if other kinds of packet writing computer software could also cause this problem, but I would be VERY careful about inserting an unfinalized VR mode disc into a computer with a DVD writer.

ACPewty

11-15-06, 10:54 PM

I had some bad experiences with InCD years ago and haven't used it since, so I can't be of much help, but I would think there should be some sort of option to avoid automatically writing to RWs when no attempt was made to write anything. If not, personally I would uninstall it.

wajo

11-15-06, 11:38 PM

Based on some discussion in the "Audio DVD" thread, I tested the copying of music and pics from a CD to Jukebox and PhotoViewer.

Copied 17 music (wma) and 4 pic (jpg) files from my computer to a CD-R via drag-and-drop. Copied music files from CD to Jukebox (2 min. for 75MB) and pics to PhotoViewer (10 sec for 1.5MB).

Since MP3 files are grouped with WMA in the menus, it's a safe bet you could include those on one CD as well and the 640 will know what to do with them automatically.

One sweet machine! :(

wajo

11-16-06, 11:36 AM

I've been trying to see if there was ANY way to get the 640 to transfer the Timer Rec titles to the recorded Disc Nav list.

So far, it appears to be impossible to go that far, but I at least discovered a way to get one more (small) piece of info for Disc Nav that might help some people identify their recorded shows...people with good memories, that is. :)

I have 11 Timer Rec programs, mixed between 1-hr, 2-hr and 3-hr lengths. In Disc Nav, I arrowed right and selected GENRES. I selected Free1 and changed the name to one of my Timer Rec programs ("Soaps"). Then, I edited my Timer Rec program for "Soaps" to include a Genre, assigning it the "Soaps" name and symbol.

I thought maybe with custom names/IDs, that would transfer to Disc Nav, but unfortunately, you can't View Disc Nav by Genre except one Genre at a time...OK if you have the patience to arrow left, select the Genre, etc...very cumbersome.

BUT, what the custom Genre does give you is the Genre symbol at the bottom of the Disc Nav screen, right under the start time for the recording...assuming you have the full Display on (two presses on Display button toggles it).

Oh, if it had only been the symbol AND the custom name!!!

I'm going to leave all my assigned custom Genre names and see if I can memorize the symbol and correlate that to a specific timer rec. show/recording.

If anyone else wants to try this, be aware you are limited to 12 characters for each Genre name and only 10 names. I used Caps/Lower Case with no spaces in the name to maximize the info.

wajo

11-16-06, 03:43 PM

There it is again. There is definitely an echo in here.

For information on how to make a donation on wabjxo's behalf, visit here (http://www.alz.org/). :)

Hey, AC, I just noticed how much better a writer I am! Thanks for pointing that out!!

Also, gives me a chance to repeat an important thing for new users who haven't read "The Gospel according to Pewty." :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACPewty
When HDD Recording Format is set to Video Mode Off, titles recorded using low bitrates (MN9 to MN15) cannot be high-speed copied to a Video mode disc. (Must use a VR mode DVD-R/-RW or DVD-RAM) However, if recorded using HDD Recording Format = Video Mode On, you can high-speed copy to a Video Mode DVD. (I tested and confirmed this using MN9 bitrate recordings with both settings: Video Mode On and Off.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wabjxo
Hey, I might have finally found one reason there are "warnings" and "cautions" re: not being able to copy to Video-mode DVD in high speed with HDD set to "Video-mode Off" (VR mode). Many tests ago, I found that was NOT true....however...

There are apparently some rec mode "speeds" that won't HS copy from VR HDD to VM DVD, as stated in this item from pg 82 of the manual:

"When HDD Recording Format is set to Video Mode Off, titles recorded in LP/MN9 to MN15 modes cannot be highspeed copied to a Video mode disc. Please use a VR mode DVD-R/-RW or DVD-RAM."

All my tests have been with SP mode, so this is something to consider if you need to set HDD for Video-mode Off and "often" record at LP speed (or MN9-15 if using manual speeds)?

It appears the warnings in the manual and some menus might have come from their trying to save people from running into this "limited" inability after it's too late?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wabjxo
I recorded my music tests with Video Mode Off (VR-mode) and I wasn't able to high-speed copy the music I recorded in LP or MN9-15. If you don't use one of those HDD rec. modes, it won't make any difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wabjxo
Ref. my post above, I FINALLY found a good reason NOT to run your HDD with "Video Mode Off" (VR-mode) on a regular basis...which I've done up to now.

Any recordings made at LP or MN9-15 to a VR-mode HDD can't be high-speed copied to a Video-mode DVD! All other speeds can.

On pg 82 of manual all along!

ACPewty

11-16-06, 06:27 PM

Also, gives me a chance to repeat an important thing for new users who haven't read "The Gospel according to Pewty." :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACPewty
When HDD Recording Format is set to Video Mode Off, titles recorded using low bitrates (MN9 to MN15) cannot be high-speed copied to a Video mode disc. (Must use a VR mode DVD-R/-RW or DVD-RAM) However, if recorded using HDD Recording Format = Video Mode On, you can high-speed copy to a Video Mode DVD. (I tested and confirmed this using MN9 bitrate recordings with both settings: Video Mode On and Off.)Not sure how that qualifies as "Gospel", but you won't find a lot of preaching coming from this athiest. ;)

Sorry if I hit a nerve. I was hoping you would have a sense of humor about it. :(

wajo

11-16-06, 06:30 PM

Not sure how that qualifies as "Gospel", but you won't find a lot of preaching coming from this athiest. ;)

Sorry if I hit a nerve. I was hoping you would have a sense of humor about it. :(
Alzheimer's (your link) is NOT a laughing matter, but in your mind it was OK to use as a weapon. :rolleyes:

ACPewty

11-16-06, 07:05 PM

Alzheimer's (your link) is NOT a laughing matter, but in your mind it was OK to use as a weapon. :rolleyes:Weapon?? Lighten up wabjxo. It was hardly intended as a weapon. It was a joke. I found it amusing that you seemed to discover the same point so many times and I noticed because I had already pointed it out the first time you posted about it shortly after I did.

My grandmother is still alive and has Alzheimer's. I know it is a serious illness, but it can also provide humor occasionally. Again, if I hit a nerve and certainly if you have the disease I apologize but it was just a joke. Jeesh. :rolleyes:

wajo

11-16-06, 07:17 PM

Jukebox2001

11-16-06, 08:01 PM

Anybody want to bet the 543 is slated for Walmart? If that's the case, I'll be the first person standing in line to get one off the truck.
I have a 543H-S and a bit disappointed.
I cant find the option for copying mp3 from usb drive to HDD.
This is a BIIIIG MISTAKE with this receiver.
Does anyone knows ho to do that?

Jukebox2001

11-16-06, 08:08 PM

Ahhhhhh...found out!!!
From the "Edit" option on the right; right arrow and there it is: copy Album!
Bingo!
I love this maschine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Make sure guys: if you have USB drive get the external power to that drive; the USB port has not enough juice to spin the drive.
With any flash drive works great; I just connected my card reader with a card in it and it is rolling!
A true jukebox!
(I will need a 300 gig HDD.....)
Have fun!

vincentnyc

11-16-06, 08:10 PM

there is a usb port next to another port in this machine. is that the firewire port?

ACPewty

11-16-06, 09:16 PM

there is a usb port next to another port in this machine. is that the firewire port?No, that's a USB out port for printing to a compatible Pictbridge photo printer.

ACPewty

11-16-06, 09:36 PM

My final comment on this:

You are the very first person in this forum that seemed to object to someone who you "thought" repeated something you posted...and it's the 2nd time...on the same subject! I didn't know you had sole ownership of the subject!?

I have learned lots of things from reading others' posts and have repeated some of those thoughts or knowledge. I've also done MANY original tests and always shared, and never cared if someone repeated the information I learned in those tests.

In fact, I always try to link to another member's post to help answer a question, whenever I can, rather than portray my answer as "my idea."

Also, when I joined this forum in Dec 2005, one of the earliest things I learned, from bobkart, was that a high-speed transfer was a "bit-for-bit" copy. You recently repeated that and someone responded that he "thought he had heard that somewhere before"...probably from bobkart, who has never objected or even "hinted" that someone was plagiarizing his thoughts.

I did some VR-mode high-speed copy tests in June and many responded with "I didn't know you could do that." When I saw someone repeating this information, I didn't object or actually POST that "there was an echo in here," or suggest the "repeater" might have a deadly disease affecting his/her brain. That's what this forum is for!

YOU need to "lighten up" and recognize this is a forum for ideas and learning, and people will learn from you and repeat what they have learned, never realizing that YOU posted the idea first!

GET OVER YOURSELF!I don't know where you get this about me objecting to anyone repeating my posts. I would take that as a compliment if I thought it was the case, but this wasn't my "idea" or yours or anyone's other than the designers of the 640. It was simply a quote from the manual being confirmed.

As we all know, repeating points is not only common but necessary because most people don't bother (or don't know how) to do a proper search before posting questions.

I have already told you I simply thought the repeated "discoveries" were funny and I'm sorry my little joke was at your expense but you are blowing this way out of proportion. I'm glad, as probably most readers of this thread are, that you have posted your last comments on this as it is pretty ridiculous and it is junking up the thread. I will certainly think twice before trying to inject any humor where wabjxo is involved. It would seem your memory is not lacking nearly as much as your sense of humor.

drgkja

11-16-06, 09:52 PM

Some users have successfully controlled the 640 using Pioneer VCR codes, but it will only start/stop recording. You can't turn it on and off.

OK..thanks

Seeker47

11-17-06, 07:36 PM

I It's still very hard to tell e.g. the difference betwen ch 6 and ch 8 -- last week I missed /House/ on ch 8 because I recorded to ch 6 instead. :(
I guess the poor-quality menu font is just something I'll have to live with.

It's too bad this is still a problem. My 520 has some crappy fonts in it also -- most notably a lower case "m" that is indistinguishable from an "n". I use top quality S-video cables exclusively, so I know it is something inherent to the unit's character generator.

Seeker47

11-17-06, 08:13 PM

I have no idea if other kinds of packet writing computer software could also cause this problem, but I would be VERY careful about inserting an unfinalized VR mode disc into a computer with a DVD writer.
I can't recall the tech details now, but I recall reading of various problems with all of the well-known packet writing programs. The case I do remember was with the Roxio one, a few years ago. It clashed with some other installed software and caused some OS problems that weren't pretty. This was on three different computers, having different versions of Windows -- NT or later -- and I also saw that on one W98 box.. Ever since then, I've declined to install the packet writing program with whichever CD / DVD suite I was using. (Nero, for the last few years.) This component doesn't offer anything I need that would make it worth the risk.

Sean Nelson

11-17-06, 08:23 PM

It's too bad this is still a problem. My 520 has some crappy fonts in it also -- most notably a lower case "m" that is indistinguishable from an "n". I use top quality S-video cables exclusively, so I know it is something inherent to the unit's character generator.My Pioneer 633 also has fonts in which it's hard to distinguish "i"s from "l"s and "m"s from "n"s, but there is quite a bit of improvement if I use a component connection instead of S-Video. This has led me to wonder if my receiver (which is acting as an S-Video switcher) is degrading the signal - but I've been too lazy to bother bypassing it so that I could check for sure.

ACPewty

11-18-06, 12:38 AM

My Pioneer 633 also has fonts in which it's hard to distinguish "i"s from "l"s and "m"s from "n"s, but there is quite a bit of improvement if I use a component connection instead of S-Video. This has led me to wonder if my receiver (which is acting as an S-Video switcher) is degrading the signal - but I've been too lazy to bother bypassing it so that I could check for sure.I have a 640 connected through an A/V receiver to an LCD HDTV via component (in and out), and another direct via composite to an older Sony CRT and the component is way better despite 10ft component cables.

It may be that the HDTV is higher resolution and I agree that the font/background combination could be better but I doubt anyone would complain about legibility on my component setup.

The composite setup on the other hand is fuzzy looking in disk navigator etc by comparison. I can still distinguish between all the characters, but it isn't nearly as clear. When I bring up the sat box's on-screen guide however, it is quite clear via composite.

Considering all this I tend to think the font is problematic but maybe considerably less so via component although I would expect usually everything should look better via component with most equipment.

I have to apologize to BaltimoreStan as I made an error when typing the following a while ago:My office setup does something similar but only when I view through component cables.I meant to say I see the problem when I view through composite cables. I'm very sorry, I hope you didn't buy s-video when component was an option because of my error. :o

BaltimoreStan

11-18-06, 02:47 AM

I have to apologize to BaltimoreStan as I made an error when typing the following a while ago:... I meant to say I see the problem when I view through composite cables. I'm very sorry, I hope you didn't buy s-video when component was an option because of my error. :o

I did buy S-Video, but it wasn't that expensive, PQ for actual programs seems a tad better, and component wasn't an option.

Unfortunately S-Video didn't make the fonts better -- it really does seem this is a problem in the 640's character generator as compared to the 633's. I don't regret making the experiment.

Seeker47

11-18-06, 02:13 PM

I'll PM you with the complete link.

I'd like to have that link also. Preventing spammers from doing there thing here is certainly desirable, but I'm thinking the link-blocking setup currently in place for posts is a bit overzealous . . . .

wajo

11-18-06, 03:06 PM

I'd like to have that link also. Preventing spammers from doing there thing here is certainly desirable, but I'm thinking the link-blocking setup currently in place for posts is a bit overzealous . . . .
Three PMs, but only the 3rd one will work...if you piece it back together again! :mad:

Even then, I noticed the 1st line retained the bad link, so you'll have to re-assemble, then just copy the text.

In checking the web page that brings up, it's not the same anymore. Before it had 4 or 5 actual digital TV tuners, but now it has a "mix" of those and other things I don't recognize. The MAIN item that I hope it displays is still a good one...if it's the RCA?

I found the page originally by entering either "digital TV tuner" or "HD digital TV tuner" in Google...I tried both and don't remember which one got the "good" page on *bay with several tuners pictured.

wajo

11-18-06, 06:44 PM

Seeker47, I think I found a way to send a good link. Try this:

Copy only the last line and, in your browser Address window, type the first line with an "e" in place of the asterisk, then paste the copied text after the slash. It works in "Preview" and hopefully will work for you too?

http://search.*bay.com/

hd-digital-tuner_W0QQfnuZ1QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ3QQxpufuZx

drgkja

11-19-06, 07:10 PM

Some users have successfully controlled the 640 using Pioneer VCR codes, but it will only start/stop recording. You can't turn it on and off.

since there is no TVGOS, is vcr+ the way go? never used used vcr+, not sure if it is as simple as the manual claims. time to find out!

wajo

11-19-06, 09:52 PM

since there is no TVGOS, is vcr+ the way go? never used used vcr+, not sure if it is as simple as the manual claims. time to find out!
VCR+ is simple to use once you get a code...that's the only somewhat difficult part. The TVG magazine doesn't show the codes anymore, but you can sign up and get them online here (http://www.vcrplus.com/signup.asp). You could be lucky and have a local pub. that lists the codes each week?

The signup process is somewhat complicated since you have to ident. your locale and newspapapers, AND you have to set up the 640 with "Guide Channels" (GC) in the Initial Setup > Tuner menu. Your GC are not always the actual channel numbers...in my area, for example, channel 33 is GC 30 and there are several others that are diff. You'll see the GCs when you get into the VCR+ system online.

The VCR+ system generates random numbers for each date and time span, so a daily or weekly show will have diff. numbers for each successive episode, but I think once you select the first date for that show, then set the Timer Rec/VCR+ menu for the type of recurring show, that first number should catch that same date and time at the interval you set. (I've got one program started that way now just for the heck of it.)

EDIT: My test failed to record the next sequential show, so VCR+ is a one-time setting... a daily M-F show requires FIVE VCR+ entries, each a different number!

If you decide to use it, you'll see that all it does is give you a way to enter day, time, channel, etc. using a single 6-digit number, instead of a full-fledged Timer Rec program.

ngohit

11-20-06, 08:51 PM

I'm getting a 640 sometime next week from Pioneer in exchange for my 531 [I guess they got sick and tired of my TVGOS problem calls]. From what I have picked up so far, the remote is dreadful and some people have ordered the remote for the 633.

Does anyone know if the remote that comes with the 420/520 (or 531) works with the 640? I have a 420 and two 520s already.

One thing I hated about the 531 and *love* about the 420/520 is the chapter mark key on the remote. Being able to add a chapter mark while watching something makes later editing out of commercials very easy on the 420/520. Not being able to do this with the 531 really annoyed me, to the point where I sometimes recorded to -RW on the 531 then watched, adding chapter markes while watching, on a 520. Can chapter marks be added while viewing on the 640, as is possible on the 420/520?

Other than the size of the HDD, do any people who also have a 420/520 note any real advantages of the 640?

kjbawc

11-20-06, 09:39 PM

suplex

11-20-06, 09:46 PM

amigaforever

11-20-06, 09:59 PM

MrMike6by9

11-20-06, 10:01 PM

...Does anyone know if the remote that comes with the 420/520 (or 531) works with the 640? I have a 420 and two 520s already. .... Other than the size of the HDD, do any people who also have a 420/520 note any real advantages of the 640?
Yes, my 420 remote works with the 640. There are some things about the 420 interface that I prefer. I haven't concentrated on comparisons though.
YMMV

raymondeast

11-20-06, 10:08 PM

has any heard from japan if they have a upgrade yet for getting a title on timer recording?

ngohit

11-21-06, 07:52 AM

I don't find the 640's remote "dreadful," but it does lack a couple of features the 633 had, and are probably worth picking up the 633 remote to use. I asked the same question about adding chapter marks while playing a title on the 640. Those with the old remote and the 640 answered. It is NOT possible, even with an old remote that has that feature on the remote. I would really like that feature as well. The closest I can come to it is to stop play at the point I want to mark, go to chapter edit, put in the mark, and resume play. Yeah, I know, more hassle than it should be... But, I like my 640 a lot.

I really am bewildered why Pioneer dropped the chapter mark via a remote after the 2004 models (e.g. 420/520). Even though one can not do this with the 531, I was hoping one again could with the 640 since it does not have the TVGuide.

So, there are now two things I would like Pioneer to include in it upcoming models. These are both features of the 420/520 which were dropped for the 2005 models:
1. Auto record when my satellite receiver turns on/off.
2, Insert chapter marks while viewing with the remote.

BTW, the way you add chapter marks while watching is the way I sometimes did on the 531.

Yes, my 420 remote works with the 640. There some things about the 420 interface that I prefer. I haven't concentrated on comparisons though.
YMMV

Then I'll use one of my 420/520 remotes. I do like being able to use it for the TV, too.

ngohit

11-21-06, 08:04 AM

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_3424/381240225NoticeWithExhibitsDVDPlayers.pdf

Anyone who owns the Pioneer DVR-640H-S and other Pioneer DVD Players might want to check out the above link.

Wow! I have never read about these playback problems here, possibly because most people seem to use a regular DVD player to watch commercial and homemade DVDs.

That said, all my machines qualify for the firmware upgrade. I'll probably pass on getting it given I do not watch commercial DVDs on the recorders and don't like the idea of having them shipped back and forth to CA, where I was told my 531 would have to be sent for repairs before Pioneer decided to swap it for a 640. It's the idea of careless handling in transit causing problems.

ACPewty

11-21-06, 09:25 AM

So, there are now two things I would like Pioneer to include in it upcoming models. These are both features of the 420/520 which were dropped for the 2005 models:
1. Auto record when my satellite receiver turns on/off.
2, Insert chapter marks while viewing with the remote.I believe it was reported that you cannot insert chapter marks while watching with the 640 even if you have an earlier remote that has the button. Other features however do indeed work: open/close tray etc.

The 640 already does auto-record. If it doesn't work for you it is most likely a shortcoming of your sat box as opposed to the 640. Many sat/cable boxes continue to output a signal when in standby/off mode which renders auto-record useless.

I don't watch a lot of commercial DVDs in my 640, but I have played a few and haven't had a problem. Has anyone else experienced problems?

Earthquake Mike

11-21-06, 11:09 AM

Dmon4u

11-21-06, 11:36 AM

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_3424/381240225NoticeWithExhibitsDVDPlayers.pdf

Anyone who owns the Pioneer DVR-640H-S and other Pioneer DVD Players might want to check out the above link.

Free Firmware Upgrade (if available) for three years after initial purchase or 180 days after Final Approval Date.

* More complete info through Link.

ACPewty

11-21-06, 11:40 AM

A minor gripe:
After using my new 640 for about 3 weeks, I've noticed that
while editing out commercials in "erase section" mode, that there is a
slight repetitive stutter or jitter (every 5-7sec) while forward scanning.
(2x & 3x)
This is not present in my 520H. It's very smooth.That may be more noticeable at slower recording speeds because the scanning would have to look for key frames which may be fewer at slower speeds? (Less extra random key frames inserted between the regularly speced ones.)

I have noticed the audio at scan1 is a bit chippy compared to the 633 which was very smooth, but I'm not complaining. It's neat that you get it at all, and at least everyone doesn't sound like chipmunks.

suplex

11-21-06, 04:46 PM

That said, all my machines qualify for the firmware upgrade. I don't like the idea of having them shipped back and forth to CA. It's the idea of careless handling in transit causing problems.

You mean they are making us send the units back to be upgraded? (I didn't read the whole situation). When I needed an upgrade for my Toshiba D-R1 they sent me a disc and I upgraded it that way. I'll pass too on sending the unit back.

kjbawc

11-21-06, 09:46 PM

So, there are now two things I would like Pioneer to include in it upcoming models. These are both features of the 420/520 which were dropped for the 2005 models:
1. Auto record when my satellite receiver turns on/off.

If you use the Line 1 input, and select the proper function in the setup menu (IIRC), and turn the 640 off, when whatever is connected to your L1 input turns on, your 640 will record, and turn off when it turns off. But, as ACPewty said, if your satellite receiver passes a signal on its line output even when turned off, that won't work for you. If it does work, be sure to program your Sat. Receiver to turn on a minute or two early, so your 640 has time to start recording before the program starts.

ngohit

11-21-06, 10:23 PM

You mean they are making us send the units back to be upgraded? (I didn't read the whole situation). When I needed an upgrade for my Toshiba D-R1 they sent me a disc and I upgraded it that way. I'll pass too on sending the unit back.

My read was that Pioneer will retain the right to decide if a machine has to be returned to one of their service centers for an upgrade or if a disk will be sent, so the owner can install it him/herself. I would only want to receive a disk, which I would hold onto and only use if I experienced the problem for which the upgrade disk is intended to fix.

ngohit

11-21-06, 10:35 PM

If you use the Line 1 input, and select the proper function in the setup menu (IIRC), and turn the 640 off, when whatever is connected to your L1 input turns on, your 640 will record, and turn off when it turns off. But, as ACPewty said, if your satellite receiver passes a signal on its line output even when turned off, that won't work for you. If it does work, be sure to program your Sat. Receiver to turn on a minute or two early, so your 640 has time to start recording before the program starts.

Thanks. I was obviously given incorrect information from the Pioneer rep.

I do a LOT of auto recording on my 420 and 520 and did miss this feature on the 531. One of my satellite receivers, though, I do have set to turn on one minute early so the large box that shows the program will turn off before the beginning of what I want to record. This is my most ancient (and favorite) DirecTV receiver, the Sony I was given when I was converted from PrimeStar.

ACPewty

11-21-06, 10:43 PM

My read was that Pioneer will retain the right to decide if a machine has to be returned to one of their service centers for an upgrade or if a disk will be sent, so the owner can install it him/herself. I would only want to receive a disk, which I would hold onto and only use if I experienced the problem for which the upgrade disk is intended to fix.Pioneer is reserving the right to decide if they will send out a firmware update to you on disc. They may be banking on the likelihood that most users won't want to send in their players/recorders and be without them for however long it takes. (It was about 3 weeks from the date Pioneer received my 633 before the 640 arrived and it was a straight exchange...no work necessary.) They may also just want to be sure that the update is done right so there is no additional litigation.

drgkja

11-21-06, 11:10 PM

VCR+ is simple to use once you get a code...that's the only somewhat difficult part. The TVG magazine doesn't show the codes anymore, but you can sign up and get them online here (http://www.vcrplus.com/signup.asp). You could be lucky and have a local pub. that lists the codes each week?

The signup process is somewhat complicated since you have to ident. your locale and newspapapers, AND you have to set up the 640 with "Guide Channels" (GC) in the Initial Setup > Tuner menu. Your GC are not always the actual channel numbers...in my area, for example, channel 33 is GC 30 and there are several others that are diff. You'll see the GCs when you get into the VCR+ system online.

The VCR+ system generates random numbers for each date and time span, so a daily or weekly show will have diff. numbers for each successive episode, but I think once you select the first date for that show, then set the Timer Rec/VCR+ menu for the type of recurring show, that first number should catch that same date and time at the interval you set. (I've got one program started that way now just for the heck of it.)

If you decide to use it, you'll see that all it does is give you a way to enter day, time, channel, etc. using a single 6-digit number, instead of a full-fledged Timer Rec program. It doesn't add any info. to the Disc Nav listing, such as the Title...you'll still end up with a nondescript date, time, channel, etc. in Disc Nav.

wabjxo..thanks for taking the time to post these details...i'll try and post an update

your last para (i.e., simpler program entry) is the reason i am interested vcr+ or TVGOS

drgkja

11-21-06, 11:22 PM

wajo

11-22-06, 12:22 AM

any idea if the units being shipped now are free of this bug?
There is NO BUG in the 640 as suggested by the class-action pdf.

There are/were 7 cases in Calif. claiming a PLAYBACK defect in Pioneers...skipping, pixelating, etc.

FIVE of those cases were decided in Pioneer's favor "on all claims." Only two remained in litigation, and the losers appealed, so the parties agreed to a settlement to reduce litigation costs only.

Pioneer promised two remedies: (1) Pay for any firmware updates already made by users, and (2) Agreed to provide a firmware upgrade, if available, for 3 years after purchase. (This 3-yr firmware warranty has been offered from the 531 days, and maybe earlier, as part of Pioneer's regular warranty.)

It's interesting to note that, on pg 4, the settlement document lists six specific DVD-Audio titles that had the playback problems (prime exhibits of Pioneer's dastardly malfeasance?) that their firmware upgrade, if any, would fix. Two of those are Neil Young's "Greendale" and Steely Dan's "Gaucho." Four others are ones everyone should have: "Monty Alexander, Ray Brown, and Herb Ellis Trio," "Brazilian Soul," "Bach Classics," and "Harvest." If you have any of those, and it skips, pixelates, or ???, you probably need a firmware upgrade.

If you have a playback problem as described in the settlement doc., you have several options, one of which is to get a firmware update (IF AVAILABLE) from an authorized repair shop or on a disc, or get reimbursed for an update you already had done at an auth. repair shop, or get a $50 voucher for next purchase, but only if you got rid of that "bad" Pio unit 'cause it had the described playback problem and you no longer have it....and you really couldn't do without your "Brazilian Soul" in all it's nonpixelating glory :)

Seeker47

11-22-06, 09:07 PM

Three PMs, but only the 3rd one will work...if you piece it back together again! :mad:

Even then, I noticed the 1st line retained the bad link, so you'll have to re-assemble, then just copy the text.

Thanks, Wabjxo, I got it. (Stitched together from one of the PMs, I mean.)
Like you, I'm still curious about what can pass here and what can't. I'm wondering if one -- or even two -- spaces between each character would slip by. Kinda Mickey Mouse if it did . . . and what spammer isn't going to figure that out pretty quick ?!

wajo

11-22-06, 09:14 PM

Thanks, Wabjxo, I got it. (Stitched together from one of the PMs, I mean.)
Like you, I'm still curious about what can pass here and what can't. I'm wondering if one -- or even two -- spaces between each character would slip by. Kinda Mickey Mouse if it did . . . and what spammer isn't going to figure that out pretty quick ?!
I think when you start with "http://" and have a ".com" in there, that activates their "seek-and-destroy-bot" (SADBOT). :)

Your idea of a space will work, in combination with no "http://" at the beginning, as in this:

search.ebay. com/pioneer-dvr-633_W0QQfnuZ1QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ3QQxpufuZx

Placement of the space is key, and you'll have to ident. where that space is. In the case above, a single space just before the "com" works! So, you can copy the text, remove the space, and add http:// in front, and the link will work.

This also works, sort of, if the address has a "www" except the www part will be formatted as an orphan URL, as in this sample (not a real address):

www.ebay. com/pioneer-dvr-633_W0QQfnuZ1QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ3QQxpufuZx

wajo

11-22-06, 09:53 PM

VCR+ is just a "time-slot-selector."

Once you get a VCR+ code...not that easy...it will record a specific day/date/channel/time-period. For a one-time show, like a movie, you can set the recording with just the VCR+ code number. For recurring daily/weekly shows, you have to enter the code, then set "Details", which takes you to the Timer Rec menu where you set the frequency. Once there, you wonder why you didn't just start with the Timer Rec menu!? ;)

Seeker47

11-23-06, 02:41 PM

. . . W0QQfnuZ1QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ3QQxpufuZx

What the heck is this part of the URL ? Javascript ?

wajo

11-23-06, 04:38 PM

What the heck is this part of the URL ? Javascript ?
Not sure. I think just a part of their item ident?

wajo

11-25-06, 12:17 AM

Sale on Pio 640 at One Call...$309.88 + 22.20 shipping.

Authorized Pio dealer, good rep.

Copy the URL text below, paste in browser address line, but delete the space between "one" and "call" before pressing Enter:

http://www.one call.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=32449

Jonesy09

11-25-06, 08:08 PM

If this has been covered before I apologize but I haven't read this whole thread. I've had my 640 for a couple weeks now. Right after putting it in the chain between my D* Tivo box and the Sony 27" crt I noticed an improvement in the picture quality. I am running S-video from Tivo to 640 and Component video from 640 to TV. It wasn't a huge difference but enough for my wife to notice. She's not nearly obsessive as me regarding a/v gear but this is the TV she uses the most and if she can tell then I'm convinced. I didn't realize the 640 converted video. Nice bonus.

giantcycle

11-28-06, 10:42 AM

Sale on Pio 640 . . .

Could low prices on current DVD recorders be a sign that new ones with ATSC tuners are on the way (hope, hope)? That's the only thing missing from my ideal feature set.

CruelInventions

11-28-06, 01:28 PM

I thought dvd recorders are a dying breed? Still makes sense though, but it won't be coming from Pioneer I presume (based upon reading this forum, i.e., they're getting out of the dvd recording standalone business).

Geordon

11-28-06, 01:34 PM

Could low prices on current DVD recorders be a sign that new ones with ATSC tuners are on the way (hope, hope)? That's the only thing missing from my ideal feature set.

So far, the DVRs I am reading about with ATSC tuners down-rez to SD before recording. I would really love something with a more practical price than the Tivo 3.

CruelInventions

11-28-06, 01:46 PM

another good point. But still, even though they will have to down-rez the signal, having integrated dual NTSC/ATSC tuning capability only makes sense. I don't want to have to attach a separate ATSC tuner for each dvd recorder I own. Well, I only have one, but still.. I'm sure this would be a sentiment shared by many of our more robust dvd recording members.

wajo

11-28-06, 01:58 PM

Pio 640 at beachcamera.com (http://www.beachcamera.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=PRDVR640HS)...$319 includes shipping.

You have to add it to your Cart...and allow Cookies...to see the $319.00 price.

Geordon

11-28-06, 03:48 PM

CruelInventions

11-29-06, 01:17 AM

Geordon

11-29-06, 08:37 AM

actually, in about a month when I have my first digital HD display panel, I couldn't care less about NTSC tuners. In fact, it will be a nuisance.. I wish there was a way to swap out it out for an ATSC tuner.

I watch what I can in OTA HD, but there are still an awful lot of cable channels which I would greatly miss, such as ESPN, ESPN2, Disney, etc, which I get for $6/mo on my local cable provider. Not ready to pay $60/mo for highly compressed HD satellite feeds on top of my cable-modem bill.

hr_Robson

11-29-06, 09:36 AM

Can the 640 read DivX AVI files from the USB port? Now that would be a timesaver; no need to write a DVD from the PC, just load the file onto a USB flash drive. Or is it just limited to reading jpegs and mp3's?

Thanks in advance.

Yes, you can only play MP3's and preview pictures. It's obviously forbidden by firmware which is, by my opinion, total nonsense for such type of equipment.

Urlee

11-30-06, 01:06 PM

Pio 640 at beachcamera.com (http://www.beachcamera.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=PRDVR640HS)...$319 includes shipping.

You have to add it to your Cart...and allow Cookies...to see the $319.00 price.

I was wondering if they are an OK place to order from.
I read some reviews on BeachCamera and it scared me off?

This popped up on them? Is that something to be concerned about?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/urlee/BeachC.jpg

Urlee
PS
I just clicked further on that and it said this certificate is ok on the certification path?

wajo

11-30-06, 01:30 PM

I haven't dealt with them, but they are an auth. Pioneer dealer and have tons on reviews with an excellent "rating."

Not sure what reviews you read, but their Bizrate rating is 9.4 (out of 10). One Call's rating is 9.2. Here a table on their recent performance:

Overall Rating Summary (http://www.bizrate.com/ratings_guide/cust_reviews__mid--24991.html)

.................Past Week....Past Month....Past 3 Months
Positive.........96%.............96%.................97%
Neutral..........—..................2%....................1%
Negative.........4%..............2%.....................2%

The security warning is common on my PC, and usually results in an OK at the end of those messages.

To be more safe (?), you can call them at 1-800-572-3224, Prompt #1 for Sales, and mention their Catalog #: PRDVR640HS MFG Part #: DVR640HS?

equivocal

11-30-06, 02:14 PM

wajo

11-30-06, 02:26 PM

Does the 640H support playing from the DVD and/or HDD while recording to the HDD? I was expecting to exchange my week old Polaroid 2001G for its Philips 3455 sibling because of the mono tuner. But this Pioneer model looks more appealing, and with tax vs. free shipping the cost is the same or less.
Absolutely!

With the Pio 640, you'll lose Component in BUT you'll gain stereo tuner, chase play, 32 timer programs, PhotoViewer, Jukebox, DVD-R/-RW/+R/+RW/-RAM play and record, dual-layer recording w/o stopping between layers, playing DVDs/HDD recorded shows while the HDD records something else, copying HDD > DVD while recording on the HDD, Commercial Skip up to 10-min., Slo-mo, frame advance, Video- and VR-mode, a "never-lose Resume" feature that remembers where you left off playing all shows, etc., etc.

TheHans

11-30-06, 03:23 PM

Hi,

Has anyone used Sony +RW or -RW discs with this machine? If so, how did they work? Home Hardware is selling the five-pack for $8 and that seems like a good price for RW discs as far as I can tell. But it's not a good price for coasters. :-) So I'm hoping someone might have some personal experience.

The Hans

Sean Nelson

11-30-06, 07:24 PM

This popped up on them? Is that something to be concerned about?This is telling you that the name of their web site doesn't match the name on the certificate. It's the same sort of thing as if you went into a restaurant and saw a valid, current food inspection certificate posted on the wall, but the name on the certificate was different than the name of the restaurant you're in. You might be a little suspicious that the certificate didn't really belong to these people.

It could be quite harmless. In my restaurant analogy, it may be that they recently changed their name. Something similar may have happened with the web site. But if you're paranoid (and on the Internet that's not altogether a bad thing) you might want to ask them about it.

ACPewty

11-30-06, 10:10 PM

This is telling you that the name of their web site doesn't match the name on the certificate. It's the same sort of thing as if you went into a restaurant and saw a valid, current food inspection certificate posted on the wall, but the name on the certificate was different than the name of the restaurant you're in. You might be a little suspicious that the certificate didn't really belong to these people.

It could be quite harmless. In my restaurant analogy, it may be that they recently changed their name. Something similar may have happened with the web site. But if you're paranoid (and on the Internet that's not altogether a bad thing) you might want to ask them about it.Who are you and what have you done with the real Sean Nelson???

Sean has lighter coloured hair...unless...oh no...Sean, say it isn't so!?! :eek: :) ;)

eddiekirstein

11-30-06, 11:44 PM

After weeks of reading this thread and googling the 640, I finally ordered one tonight from Beach Camera. Will be using it with analog cable and a modest 27" JVC set. I'm already running 2 VCR's for taping TV shows but look forward to the feature of watching delayed while recording and skipping through commercials.

Yeah, can't wait.

Ed

wajo

12-01-06, 12:01 AM

Congratulations, Ed! :) Hope you like your 640 as much as I do. Let us know how the Beach Camera experience goes and how the unit comes packaged?

eddiekirstein

12-01-06, 12:27 AM

I purchased my Panasonic FZ30 camera from Beach Camera last year and was very happy with the purchase, so hopefully, this will go smoothly. I will report when I receive it.

Sean Nelson

12-01-06, 01:30 AM

Sean has lighter coloured hair...unless...oh no...Sean, say it isn't so!?! :eek: :) ;)
Sorry to disappoint, but no dye job here (yet)... ;) It's not really needed - a 65-pixel-wide photo hides lots of things. The biggest trick was posing at an angle that makes it look like I still have a full head of hair... :eek:

Urlee

12-01-06, 08:26 AM

I haven't dealt with them, but they are an auth. Pioneer dealer and have tons on reviews with an excellent "rating."
Not sure what reviews you read, but their Bizrate rating is 9.4 (out of 10). One Call's rating is 9.2. Here a table on their recent performance:

Thanks for posting this Wabjxo,
I certainly didn't want to hurt their business but was concerned.
I had looked them up on BBB also.
I tried to find where I was reading the no no's on Google search with no avail.
I am thinking it was epinions (Review and surveys) but it isn't as bad there today from what I had read before???? :confused:

I certainly would like to buy another 640 at a cheaper price from what I paid at Pioneer in case I break mine? "LOL"
I really would have use for two and am watching for a price drop.
My thoughts are: Will they be cheaper after the first of the year or will they be all gone? :eek:
Urlee

Urlee

12-01-06, 08:31 AM

This is telling you that the name of their web site doesn't match the name on the certificate. It's the same sort of thing as if you went into a restaurant and saw a valid, current food inspection certificate posted on the wall, but the name on the certificate was different than the name of the restaurant you're in. You might be a little suspicious that the certificate didn't really belong to these people.

It could be quite harmless. In my restaurant analogy, it may be that they recently changed their name. Something similar may have happened with the web site. But if you're paranoid (and on the Internet that's not altogether a bad thing) you might want to ask them about it.

Thanks Sean,

Hey, A new pic of you. Your hair is darker in that one.
That is what happens to mine when I take a digital picture. :confused:
Fluff it up a little and we shall all swoon over you! :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/urlee/Sean2.jpg

Urlee, running and hiding.

Sean Nelson

12-01-06, 12:53 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/urlee/Sean2.jpg :eek: :eek: :eek:

Urlee

12-01-06, 03:36 PM

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Sorry about that.

This better?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/urlee/Sean.jpg

Urlee

Sean Nelson

12-01-06, 05:45 PM

This better?Wow, that's so much better that I'm going to use it, thanks!

I had problems getting the image down to the 5KB required by the BBS software, so I converted it to PNG format. That eliminated a lot of the colours in the image and I think it substituted some of the background colours for the hair colour. Your version looks much more true to life.

Good work!

duncann

12-02-06, 07:31 PM

Hello,

After reading nearly this entire thread (whew!) I have most likely decided to order one of these units from amazon.

There is one nagging question I have that I couldn't find the answer to. That is, how is the hard drive sound while recording? I don't mean the constant noise the drive might make when powered up (constant whirring?), but the sound of actual data being written (characteristic hard disk clicking). Is it audible from 6 feet away? Or maybe, hopefully, does it make nearly no sound at all while recording?

Also, when powering on the unit, how does the hard drive sound? Does it make any sudden, short, and well, I guess powering up type sounds? Maybe a ch-chunck-clunck or GRRR-grrrrrrrr-grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

I ask because the unit will be going into a small bedroom (15' x 12') that is normally very quiet, especially while sleeping.

Lastly, what brand hard drive is in the unit?

Thanks greatly for any info.

bobkart

12-02-06, 07:35 PM

If it's anything like the 633 (not counting the EPG), there will be none of those kinds of hard drive noise problems.

wajo

12-02-06, 07:38 PM

There is one nagging question I have that I couldn't find the answer to. That is, how is the hard drive sound while recording? I don't mean the constant noise the drive might make when powered up (constant whirring?), but the sound of actual data being written (characteristic hard disk clicking). Is it audible from 6 feet away? Or maybe, hopefully, does it make nearly no sound at all while recording?
whirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Also, when powering on the unit, how does the hard drive sound? Does it make any sudden, short, and well, I guess powering up type sounds? Maybe a ch-chunck-clunck or GRRR-grrrrrrrr-grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

nextoo

12-02-06, 08:29 PM

whirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Could you please repeat that. I could barely hear it. :D

BaltimoreStan

12-03-06, 06:40 AM

There is one nagging question I have that I couldn't find the answer to. That is, how is the hard drive sound while recording?

Also, when powering on the unit, how does the hard drive sound?

I sit about eight feet away from my 640, and I'm very sensitive to low-level sounds. There may be a faint whirr at power-up, but definitely no clunking or other disruptive sounds. During recording, I can't hear anything from the unit.

suplex

12-03-06, 11:14 AM

As far as noise is concerned with the Pioneer 640, I have had situations where I recorded something while I was asleep (Pioneer is in my bedroom) from lets say 2:00am to 3:00am, I never heard the unit go on...record...or turn off.

My Toshiba units with no hard drive (D-R1 and D-R2), were different units when it came to noise. The D-R1 was so silent you wouldn't even know it was on if it didn't have a light on the front display signifying that it was on, with the D-R2 you thought a train was running through your bedroom. Just physically being on...without even recording anything...was wind tunnel loud with whooshing noise.

The Pioneer 640 and Toshiba D-R1...silent.

duncann

12-03-06, 02:40 PM

Well, I ordered one these today and it's certainly good to know about the silent operation.

I picked up a Panasonic ES25 in the meantime and while it is a very nice unit with some nice features (better than the lg-dr1f9h), the noise from the dvd drive kind of ruined it for me. It occasionally makes a very loud CHIIIIIIIUUUUURRR sound, and it does this often during chase playback. Other than that, it's an absolutely wonderful unit. I've really grown to like the remote.

baskerville

12-03-06, 03:26 PM

I'm about to use this feature for the first time. When I'm ready to copy
back from HDD to a blank disc, will it be necessary to first set the recording
quality (MN value) or will the Pio640 handle this automatically?

wajo

12-03-06, 03:30 PM

bobkart

12-03-06, 03:40 PM

chrisfsk

12-03-06, 05:50 PM

Can somebody please tell me how to do a backup to DVD? I have some cartoons (SLP in video-mode) recorded on my 640h, I want to back those up to DVD-R (8 hrs SLP contents, high speed HDD -> DVD) and play it from stand alone player for my kid. However, even though I have finialized the disc and picked the menu style, it only able to read from my 640h, not my stand alone player, it even shows disc is empty from my cd-rom. Did I miss something? Thanks in advance.

baskerville

12-03-06, 06:16 PM

Since it just makes an exact image of the source disc, there's no need or possibility to tell it anything more once it has read the source disc. The copy will be at whatever recording quality the original was.

Thanks for the info (you too wabjxo). I now also realize why I was not able to copy
to a blank -R ,given that the original was a +R.

KvnJmpl

12-04-06, 09:06 PM

David Susilo

12-04-06, 09:14 PM

Just received the recently released Beatles CD/DVD 'Love' and it won't load on the DVR. Load on my laptop and another DVD player. Plays all other DVD's and DivX perfectly.
Anyone else experience this?
Thanks

Many newer audio CDs for the past couple of years can't be played on burner-based units. Ie, they can't be played on your PC CD-R, DVD writers (standalone or PC). Some audio CD won't even play on computer based drive at all.

wajo

12-04-06, 11:03 PM

Just received the recently released Beatles CD/DVD 'Love' and it won't load on the DVR. Load on my laptop and another DVD player. Plays all other DVD's and DivX perfectly.
Anyone else experience this?
Thanks
Hey, a great situation for a test.

Try a One-Touch Copy (OTC)...get the CD/DVD playing, then press the OTC button under the sliding door. If it copies to the HDD, you can play it from there or, again, try a OTC back to a blank DVD.

If there's some sort of copy protection...maybe they're "afraid" of recorders...the first OTC should expose that.

wajo

12-04-06, 11:06 PM

KvnJmpl

12-04-06, 11:14 PM

Hey, a great situation for a test.

Try a One-Touch Copy (OTC)...get the CD/DVD playing, then press the OTC button under the sliding door. If it copies to the HDD, you can play it from there or, again, try a OTC back to a blank DVD.

If there's some sort of copy protection...maybe they're "afraid" of recorders...the first OTC should expose that.

The problem is that I can't get the DVD to play at all. It says "Loading" for over 20 minutes. In fact, I can't even eject the DVD or Power Off. I have to unplug the DVD and in Standby mode hit the eject button. If I try and turn the Power On again, it will continually try and Load the DVD . . . I hope this isn't the beginning of something new for this device.

ps Do you know how to force an eject while the power is on?

wajo

12-04-06, 11:48 PM

The problem is that I can't get the DVD to play at all. It says "Loading" for over 20 minutes. In fact, I can't even eject the DVD or Power Off. I have to unplug the DVD and in Standby mode hit the eject button. If I try and turn the Power On again, it will continually try and Load the DVD . . . I hope this isn't the beginning of something new for this device.

ps Do you know how to force an eject while the power is on?
Don't know how to force-eject a disc.

If you have the disc out, check for scratches, clean it with alcohol and soft cloth, and check the disc's Region code in your computer...make sure it's correct Region for where you are (U.S. = 1).???

eap_44

12-05-06, 01:56 AM

wajo

12-05-06, 02:06 AM

hey guys,
i was just reading a Consumer Reports magazine Nov 2006 issue saying that "Today's analog-tuner-only models will be phased out by next march as digital tuners become a requirement for video recorders." with this statement, what's gonna happen to our analog-tuner-only models like this pio 640? i just purchased this model after thorough review. i'm considering of returning it and wait till next year.

what do you think? if this type of dvd recorder doesn't have ATSC tuner, will this unit still work by Feb 2009? or is there away to get around it?
If you're on cable or Sat, you should not be affected since you are not receiving your programs over-the-air (OTA) thru an antenna.

The digital tuner mandate is only to get ready for Feb. 18, 2009, when all stations must cease broadcasting their analog signals OTA. So, anyone who receives programs via OTA antenna will be affected if they don't have a digital tuner. For anyone who wants to receive OTA digital broadcasts with an analog device, there will be a $40 voucher/tax credit to purchase a converter box, which is supposed to cost ~$50 by 2/18/09.

eap_44

12-05-06, 02:23 AM

If you're on cable or Sat, you should not be affected since you are not receiving your programs over-the-air (OTA) thru an antenna.

The digital tuner mandate is only to get ready for Feb. 18, 2009, when all stations must cease broadcasting their analog signals OTA. So, anyone who receives programs via OTA antenna will be affected if they don't have a digital tuner. For anyone who wants to receive OTA digital broadcasts with an analog device, there will be a $40 voucher/tax credit to purchase a converter box, which is supposed to cost ~$50 by 2/18/09.

oh i see... i thought my pio 640 will be obsolete by 2009. does it mean the built-in analog tuner in pio 640 is only for OTA signals? i am on cable so i shouldn't be affected, right? who uses over the air signals nowadays?

another question, since this unit does not play divx files burned on dvd disc, is it possible to save the divx files in a usb flash drive and plug it in the usb port of the pio 640 and browse thru the divx titles?

KvnJmpl

12-05-06, 11:11 AM

Don't know how to force-eject a disc.

If you have the disc out, check for scratches, clean it with alcohol and soft cloth, and check the disc's Region code in your computer...make sure it's correct Region for where you are (U.S. = 1).???

I backed it up on my computer and it now works fine on the DVR. Odd, I'll replace the DVD and see if that was the problem OR the fact I stripped out Region codes.
Thanks for the ideas.

vincentnyc

12-05-06, 11:37 AM

i know this dvr has a usb port in the front.. but does it have any in the back of this device? thx in advance.

David Susilo

12-05-06, 01:06 PM

nothing at the back

nursing

12-05-06, 01:18 PM

I agree with dcoulombe.

The best way to do this is to record the program to the HDD at the recording mode that will fit on a DVD. In other words, if the movie is 125 min long, then use the 130-min setting. This way you can use the H-S dubbing mode to record it on a DVD, and therefore there will be no loss in PQ. If you re-encode when you dub to the DVD, you will lose PQ. Plus it takes longer...

rgazzara,

...so, if I have recorded something to the HDD in XP mode...and then wanted to burn it to a DVD in SP mode, would I lose some PQ...would it be best then to record in SP and then high speed record to DVD...does it make sense to record to DVDs using the XP mode at all...

rgazzara

12-05-06, 01:30 PM

There has been some debate in this forum whether recording to the HDD at XP, and then dubbing to DVD at SP loses PQ. In general it is recommended that one dub to DVD at the same recording mode as was recorded to the HDD.

I suppose that you need to try this and decide for yourself. One advantage to dubbing at the same mode is that you can high-speed dub to DVD, which takes a fraction of the time as real-time dubbing does.

Recording to DVD at XP may be recommended for some high-action sports programming, but I think, in general, that SP is sufficient. Again, try this out and decide for yourself.

nursing

12-05-06, 02:02 PM

...that makes sense...I think I will re-encode in SP and then high speed burn to DVD...thanks...

Sean Nelson

12-05-06, 07:42 PM

If you plan to record something onto the hard drive and then burn it to DVD, the best thing to do is to think ahead of time about how much you want to fit on the DVD and then make the HDD recording at that setting. For example if you're recording a 1-hour show and you plan on burning two of them to one DVD, record at SP mode on the hard drive because that mode lets you fit two hours on a DVD. That way you can copy to the DVD at high speed with a guarentee of no quality loss. If you plan on removing commercials then remember that a typical hour-long broadcast works out to around 45 minutes or less them.

If you're recording to the hard drive solely for time-shifting purposes (ie, you plan to watch the show and then delete it) then it makes sense to record at XP mode to get the best possible quality. The fact that it takes up more space is moot if it's going to be deleted, unless you end up storing too many recordings on the hard drive before getting around to deleting them.

KvnJmpl

12-05-06, 09:17 PM

Don't know how to force-eject a disc.

If you have the disc out, check for scratches, clean it with alcohol and soft cloth, and check the disc's Region code in your computer...make sure it's correct Region for where you are (U.S. = 1).???

Hi Wabjxo,
Well, copied the disc and the copy worked fine. Went back to the store and replaced the original - same problem. Plays on my computers and older Sony DVD player but won't play on the Pioneer DVR. Supports many regions. Oh well, I'll stick with the backup/copy version. Personally, I think it's either the physical thickness or the format of the DVD.

dollarbill

12-05-06, 10:08 PM

I just bought one of these for 50 bucks used. I use it as a spare in one of my rooms. Is it ok to put other equipment on top of it? I have my burner and cable modem sitting on top of it. Problem?

eddiekirstein

12-05-06, 11:41 PM

I got my 640 today from Beach Camera. Shipping was by Fedx. Arrived in a couple of days. Packaging was adequate with peanuts in carton around DVR box.

I set it up quickly and recorded to hard drive in a short time considering I had downloaded the manual over the weekend and was already versed in the operation.

Then I spent several hours reconnecting to my multimedia receiver, vcr, dvd player and TV. It took awhile to get everything working together and with easy selection between equipment. I finally ran all the video thru my Onkyo receiver rather than trying to use the TV inputs to control video and the Onkyo for audio. This way pressing one button switches both video and audio. Neat. Should have done that a long time ago.

My disappointment is mainly that I thought I wouldn't need to keep my DVD player around, but the Pioneer wouldn't play original movie disks or computer made DVD disks. Oh well, got to keep the player around a little longer.

I tried all the modes of timed programs including normal, easy and VCR plus. Very iffy results with VCR plus. Sometimes it doesn't know the channel, sometimes it says that the show has passed (when it hasn't). It is so easy to use the regular programming mode that I doubt I'll bother with other modes.

We recorded The Gilmore Girls tonight and Chase watched it starting half-way through. What a thrill. It worked and looked great. Biggest difference from a VCR is that it takes about a second to skip 30 seconds to 3 minutes during commercials.

I love the way the remote feels and works. Was surprised that there isn't a jump button to go back to the previous channel. Every other tuner I have has that feature.

I wish the blue indicator light was softer. It's really bright in a dimly lit room. I'll have to do something about that.

If anyone is on the fence about getting into this technology, I would say go for it. I'm already thrilled with the machine.
Ed

dollarbill

12-06-06, 12:38 AM

I put the black eletrical tape over the blue and orange lights.

Anybody know if it's ok to set other equipment on the pioneer?

Urlee

12-06-06, 06:47 AM

I got my 640 today from Beach Camera. Shipping was by Fedx. Arrived in a couple of days. Packaging was adequate with peanuts in carton around DVR box.
My disappointment is mainly that I thought I wouldn't need to keep my DVD player around, but the Pioneer wouldn't play original movie disks or computer made DVD disks. Oh well, got to keep the player around a little longer.
Ed

Hi ED,
Happy to hear you received it OK!
I couldn't wait for you so I jumped in and ordered from them too.
But wouldn't you know it, I missed the sale and had to pay more than you.

Ordered Monday and checked the status this morning and it said, will be here already FRIDAY! Wow! That is fast if it is true.

I am sad to hear your problem with it not playing original movie discs :( as the one I have now does? :)
Oh well, I will use it for the hard drive shift and copying if mine won't either.
Urlee

nursing

12-06-06, 07:53 AM

Urlee

12-06-06, 11:33 AM

I just transfered from my camcorder to the HDD in the best quality ...

I transfered to hard drive from my camcorder which was recorded in SP. (only speed it has?)
Am puzzled at what you mean by best quality? :confused:
Can you pick?
I thought what speed the cam taped at, it copies the same to hard drive?
If the hard drive can be set to copy it at XP, that answers my question as to what you must have meant but------When a person tries to go up from a lower recording speed, doesn't that degrade the quality?

I Burned it to disc at SP and was completely satisfied with the quality.

Urlee

PS, I think I am confusing myself with trying to make a small photograph larger?
You can make a large photo smaller and have great quality but not small to large without losing quality. :o

Sean Nelson

12-06-06, 01:22 PM

I think I am confusing myself with trying to make a small photograph larger? You can make a large photo smaller and have great quality but not small to large without losing quality. :oWell, that's all that bad an analogy. Basically you start out with whatever quality is on the original recording and then you capture as much of that as you can when you make the copy. The higher the speed of the copy, the more of the original you'll get, but it will never be better than the original. So, for example, SP copied to XP should (theoretically) loose less in the copy process than SP copied to SP.

Whether or not these are differences that you would actually notice may be another story altogether, tho'! ;)

Edit - of course this only applies to copies that involve re-encoding of the digital data stream, or if the source or destination of the copy is analogue. It doesn't apply to high-speed copies, which are exact and have no quality loss whatsoever.

eddiekirstein

12-06-06, 01:44 PM

Hi ED,

Ordered Monday and checked the status this morning and it said, will be here already FRIDAY! Wow! That is fast if it is true.

Urlee

Just so you know, I had to sign for the package. Hope you'll have someone there to accept the delivery.
ed

KvnJmpl

12-06-06, 01:52 PM

Pioneer Canada tells me that the 640 is not compatible with DVD Audio formats.

David Susilo

12-06-06, 01:56 PM

I transfered to hard drive from my camcorder which was recorded in SP. (only speed it has?)
Am puzzled at what you mean by best quality? :confused:
Can you pick?
I thought what speed the cam taped at, it copies the same to hard drive?
If the hard drive can be set to copy it at XP, that answers my question as to what you must have meant but------When a person tries to go up from a lower recording speed, doesn't that degrade the quality?

I Burned it to disc at SP and was completely satisfied with the quality.

Urlee

PS, I think I am confusing myself with trying to make a small photograph larger?
You can make a large photo smaller and have great quality but not small to large without losing quality. :o

On the remote you'll see "REC MODE" by doing so you can choose either recording using XP, SP, EP, LP, SLP. XP is the best quality (1 hour per DVD) SP is the second best (2 hour per DVD).

nursing

12-06-06, 02:03 PM

I transfered to hard drive from my camcorder which was recorded in SP. (only speed it has?)
Am puzzled at what you mean by best quality? :confused:
Can you pick?
I thought what speed the cam taped at, it copies the same to hard drive?
If the hard drive can be set to copy it at XP, that answers my question as to what you must have meant but------When a person tries to go up from a lower recording speed, doesn't that degrade the quality?

I Burned it to disc at SP and was completely satisfied with the quality.

Urlee

PS, I think I am confusing myself with trying to make a small photograph larger?
You can make a large photo smaller and have great quality but not small to large without losing quality. :o

Hi Urlee,

I used the XP mode from the Record Mode list to copy the recording from my camcorder to the 640 HDD...but now, I am stuck as there is no way to use high speed copy to copy back to a DVD using the same XP speed (it is approx 3 hour video)...I now have to use real time mode and use a lower quality setting...I think I will use a DL disk...

Urlee

12-06-06, 02:04 PM

On the remote you'll see "REC MODE" by doing so you can choose either recording using XP, SP, EP, LP, SLP. XP is the best quality (1 hour per DVD) SP is the second best (2 hour per DVD).

Yes, thank you,
I am so used to copying in SP that I forgot about setting it to XP to put it on a disc even tho it was transfered in SP?
Do you then have to go through realtime?
I will have to experiment with that. Now that I have a 2nd PIO coming, I don't have to be afraid of "breaking" it.
If the 2nd PIO does not play my DVD movies I bought, I will have to use that one for experiments. :D

Urlee

rgazzara

12-06-06, 02:23 PM

Hi Urlee,

I used the XP mode from the Record Mode list to copy the recording from my camcorder to the 640 HDD...but now, I am stuck as there is no way to use high speed copy to copy back to a DVD using the same XP speed (it is approx 3 hour video)...I now have to use real time mode and use a lower quality setting...I think I will use a DL disk...

If you still want to dub to DVD in XP mode, you can divide the title into 3 1-hr titles. That way you can HS dub onto DVDs, but you'll have 3 DVDs.

Just make sure that you select "video mode compatible editing", or you won't be able to HS dub to DVD.

Just a thought...

nursing

12-06-06, 02:49 PM

Hi rgazzara,

Yea...unfortunately, I want to keep this on one DVD...I will try a real-time copy to a DL DVD and see how it looks...

wajo

12-06-06, 04:27 PM

Just make sure that you select "video mode compatible editing", or you won't be able to HS dub to DVD.
You can HS copy with VR mode HDD or VR-mode editing. Some rec. modes won't HS copy with VR (LP/MN9-15 and low-res MN1-15 widescreen), hence the "warning" about not being able to HS copy with VR mode.

Here's some test info. on HS copy with VR mode. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=691617&highlight=VR+mode)

Jukebox2001

12-07-06, 07:08 PM

I put the black eletrical tape over the blue and orange lights.

Anybody know if it's ok to set other equipment on the pioneer?
Yup; this will handle no problemo.
I have looked inside mine and the disc player part is like a disc drive in the computer; the HDD is about half inch below the metal housing.
I have two other SetTopBoxes sitting on mine.

Jukebox2001

12-07-06, 07:13 PM

wajo

12-07-06, 08:54 PM

I am having problem with reading the albums off of a USB drive.
I am using a few 120 gig USB drives for different stiles with the albums stored on them.
When adding new album; it will not show up.
Some other albums will not show up either.
Anyone has any idea what can be the problem???

Hey Pioneer.....!...?????...knock...knock....
Are your albums (music, I assume) WMA or MP3 files? Those are the only audio files types you can copy to the Jukebox via USB. If your music is in *.cda format (normal CD music), it expects them to come from a CD.

bnm81002

12-07-06, 10:10 PM

wajo

12-07-06, 10:32 PM

can someone post the web link for the authorized dealers for Pioneer products? I searched this thread with "authorized dealers" and had no luck locating the web link, are the dealers listed for ALL Pioneer products? thanks
Authorized online stores. (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/top/div/article/0,,2076_310070097_277297187,00.html)

UNauthorized internet dealers. (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/top/cat/article/0,,2076_310070097_310105092,00.html)

Store locator webpage. (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/dealer/locator/0,,2076_310069583,00.html)

bnm81002

12-07-06, 10:53 PM

Authorized online stores. (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/top/div/article/0,,2076_310070097_277297187,00.html)

UNauthorized internet dealers. (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/top/cat/article/0,,2076_310070097_310105092,00.html)

Store locator webpage. (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/dealer/locator/0,,2076_310069583,00.html)

hey thanks for the help, now I can purchase the Pioneer GPS and get the $100 rebate as well :p

BaltimoreStan

12-08-06, 06:31 AM

Hopefully some one can help! This will be a little long, but I want to be very explicit about what I did and what happened.

Some time back I had recorded a 2 hr 13 minute movie in SP and wanted to burn it to a single-layer disc with my chapter stops. Below you see part of the answer I got. I should say up front that this time I'm trying to fit four titles (300 minutes total) on a disc, not one title as before.

1) If you don't mind leaving the recording in VR mode, do an optimized copy to a VR mode DVD and then add your chapter marks again directly on the DVD before finalizing.

Strangely, the chapter stops were preserved in the real-time copy. (See details below.)

2) If you want a video mode DVD for better compatibility, do step 1 and then high-speed copy from the VR mode DVD to the HDD. Then do a high-speed copy from the new HDD copy to a video mode DVD which will retain the chapter marks.

The Pioneer would not let me do a high-speed copy. (See details below.)

If you choose step 2, of course you could redo the chapter marks either on the VR mode DVD (as in step 1) or on the HDD before the final copy to video mode DVD...your choice.

I tried the above advice, and maybe I'm doing something wrong but it doesn't work for me.

I want to save episodes of Homefront, a 1-hour serial broadcast on American Life network. Cutting out commercials leaves 46-47 minutes of material, so MN14 will fit four episodes nicely on a disc. But my first two episodes are in MN21. So following the advice above, I set record mode to MN14 and real-time copied those episodes in VR mode to a DVD-RW which I did not finalize. The Pioneer did convert to MN14. How do I know this? the size on DVD-RW was 1.0 GB each not the original 1.6 GB. But it kept my chapter stops! I thought that VR copies lost user-set chapter stops.

Whatever :-) -- I high-speed copied back to hard disk, which went fine. My chapter stops were still there, though they seemed to have moved slightly toward the start of the program, not more than a second. (I didn't check whether they had moved on the real-time copy from HDD down to DVD-RW or on the high-speed copy back from DVD-RQ up to HDD.)

Then I went to burn my DVD-R with the four episodes. Of these, two were originally MN21 converted to MN14 and two were originally MN14.

When I selected one of the originally MN21 episodes for my copy list, even though it was now MN14, I got the message "Cannot copy at high-speed in Video mode. Copying will be done in real-time." What's wrong? I tried to follow ACPewty's instructions, but I didn't get the expected results.

P.S. I've read here there's some issue with high-speed copying MN14, but that can't be what's going on for me. How do I know? Because when I selected one of the originally-MN14 episodes, I did not get the above warning but rather the one about edit points moving slightly.

So here's my problem: I've got four 47-minute programs to fit onto a 2-hour single-layer disc in Video mode. Two programs are in MN21 and two n MN14. How do I do it, and keep my chapter stops?

nursing

12-08-06, 07:34 AM

wajo

12-08-06, 08:49 AM

Hi,

Well...it was my first time to edit a video on the HDD and then copy to DVD...I must say that the editing was a breeze and so was the copying...but I am extremely disappointed in the pauses that occur at my edit points in the final product...I know this has been talked about and tested and experimented with many different scenarios, but I absolutely don't like how it looks...it may be ok for an edit before the show/movie starts and an edit at the end of the show/movie, but it is very annoying to watch the pause at an edit point in the middles of a video...is this "pause at edit points" only done by the Pioneer 640 or are all DVD Recorders faulty for creating this pause...are there any DVD Recorders out there that do not create the pause...
Sounds like you did a high-speed (HS) copy, so you can't escape the pauses. The MPEG-2 encoding you're trying to edit is an incredibly complex "Groups of Pictures" (GOP) consisting of one "key" frame (a 100% pic) and 14 other compressed pics (10%, etc.), then another GOP set, etc. Cutting out part of those GOPs disrupts the encoded flow and you can see the pause afterwards at frames 14 and 29 (with Video-mode editing), where there is a new key frame that wasn't there before, yet all the previous 14 frames were built to lead into the previous key frame, no longer there. :confused:

If you do a real-time copy, the title gets re-encoded, so the pauses will disappear or be much less noticeable.

I've read of Panasonic users complaining about the same thing. Not sure of Toshiba or others...you might hear from them.

Your only recourse, if you want to end up with a HS copy, is to cut/edit in the black fades between commercials, if those are available in the show you're trying to edit. If you use Video-mode editing, where the edit points are set to the 00 and 15 frames, those points will be "dead-on" after the HS copy, so you can be assured of their position in the final product. (If you edit "frame-accurate" or VR-mode, even a cut in black could move to outside the black area when you HS copied.)

nursing

12-08-06, 09:07 AM

wajo

12-08-06, 09:41 AM

Thanks wabjxo,

No...it was a real time copy done in Video Mode...editing was also done in Video Mode with all edits at either the 00 or 15 marks...pauses were extremely noticeable...I dubbed a 3h11m video from camcorder to the HDD using XP...then deleted out stuff from the beginning, end and a few parts in between...then recorded to a Maxell DVD -R at real time using MN15...there were no black fades in this "vacation" video so the pauses were extremely visible and annoying...is it less or not noticeable when cutting out footage in the black parts before/after commercials...maybe I am being too picky, I don't know...I just thought deletions would be straight on cuts...I guess if you are just doing deletions from the beginning and end of a show, it will be fine...
This is interesting, and maybe a new "wrinkle" in the MPEG-2 editing problem.

You re-encoded your camera footage, then re-encoded from HDD to DVD, so you should have created all-new GOP flows, which should have looked smooth in the end product.

Might have to think about the XP to LP rec modes and change from one to the other that re-encoding couldn't remove or introduced, or camera footage is "different," or .... ???

ACPewty

12-08-06, 09:54 AM

Strangely, the chapter stops were preserved in the real-time copy.Hi Stan...So chapter stops are preserved for VR mode high-speed copies...that's handy, I didn't know that as I don't use VR mode very often...only to move recordings really.

The Pioneer would not let me do a high-speed copy...my first two episodes are in MN21. So following the advice above, I set record mode to MN14 and real-time copied those episodes in VR mode to a DVD-RW which I did not finalize. The Pioneer did convert to MN14....P.S. I've read here there's some issue with high-speed copying MN14, but that can't be what's going on for me. How do I know? Because when I selected one of the originally-MN14 episodes, I did not get the above warning but rather the one about edit points moving slightly.Actually, I think that is your problem, and here's why: In the manual it says you can't high-speed copy VR mode recordings made using MN9-MN15 to a video mode disc. This is because the 640 uses non-standard resolutions for those bitrates in VR mode. (Listed on page 125)

I believe your problem is that since you did an optimized recording (from MN21 to MN14) directly to a VR mode DVD, you had no choice but to record in VR mode so you got a non-standard resolution which the video mode gods will frown upon. :(

(The recordings originally done at MN14 were allowed because your HDD recording format is set to Video Mode = ON and they were recorded to the HDD, not to a VR mode DVD...They got a permissible video mode resolution of 720x480.)

So here's my problem: I've got four 47-minute programs to fit onto a 2-hour single-layer disc in Video mode. Two programs are in MN21 and two n MN14. How do I do it, and keep my chapter stops?I recommend high-speed copying the MN21 recordings to a VR Mode DVD, and then with your HDD Recording format set to Video Mode = On, do a real-time copy from the VR mode DVD to the HDD to convert to MN14. Since the new MN14 video mode recording will use 720x480 instead of 544x480 (which the VR mode recording would have used,) the video mode gods will be happy and you should be able to high-speed copy all 4 recordings to a video mode DVD.

ACPewty

12-08-06, 10:13 AM

Thanks wabjxo,

No...it was a real time copy done in Video Mode...editing was also done in Video Mode with all edits at either the 00 or 15 marks...pauses were extremely noticeable...I dubbed a 3h11m video from camcorder to the HDD using XP...then deleted out stuff from the beginning, end and a few parts in between...then recorded to a Maxell DVD -R at real time using MN15...there were no black fades in this "vacation" video so the pauses were extremely visible and annoying...is it less or not noticeable when cutting out footage in the black parts before/after commercials...maybe I am being too picky, I don't know...I just thought deletions would be straight on cuts...I guess if you are just doing deletions from the beginning and end of a show, it will be fine...If you record in VR mode and turn on seamless playback, you can eliminate pauses but your edit points may move.

If you really want to end up with a video mode DVD, I think the best bet for minimizing pauses would be: dub from camcorder to HDD in VR mode, edit only in video mode or at frame .00 or .15,) and then real-time copy to a video mode DVD. The playback should remain seamless during the re-encode to video mode. A final high-speed dub (if even possible depending on your VR mode recording bitrate) would result in pauses.

nursing

12-08-06, 11:31 AM

Thanks ACPewty,

I am going to give your suggestion a try and see if I can get a pauseless final copy...I hope it works out...so, would it still be best for me to dub from the camcorder mode in XP and then record to DVD in MN15...am doing this to get all 3+ hours on one DVD -R...so, just to get myself straight, any, any, any high speed copying to DVD no matter what will result in "pauses"...

nursing

12-08-06, 11:47 AM

HealeyGuy

12-08-06, 12:11 PM

Hi,

I have a couple of question hopefully someone can shed some light on for me:

1. Are commercial DVDs that we purchase 480p? If so, when we do a Backup and/or One Touch Copy of commercial DVDs, are they copied back in the same 480P format or are they downsampled to 480i? As I believe the Pio640 records to DVDs at 480i.
All video DVDs are 480i. The 640 can be set to output to TV as 480p, but I prefer to let my HDTV do the deinterlacing so I have my Pioneer set to output as 480i. You cannot copy a commercial DVD with the Pioneer recorder. Copy protection prevents this.
2. My present TV is a very old 27-inch Sony and everything looks crystal clear and wonderful when playing the DVD I created from the Pio640 on it...just wondering what it will look like when I eventually get an HDTV. How are others here who are viewing DVDs created by the Pio640 on an HDTV finding the quality?
Depending on the recording setting you use the picture can look wonderful as a 4:3 full frame picture. If you use the HDTV to stretch or zoom the picture then it won't look as good, just the same as if you did this with a standard definition TV channel.

nursing

12-08-06, 12:37 PM

Thanks HealeyGuy,

Oh...I thought I read somewhere in this post that copying from your own commercially bought DVDs was possible...my mistake...good info on the HDTV stuff...

ACPewty

12-08-06, 03:53 PM

...so, would it still be best for me to dub from the camcorder mode in XP and then record to DVD in MN15Yes, I would record from camcorder to HDD (VR Mode) using XP mode if you plan to re-encode anyway when you do the real-time copy to DVD at MN15. That way you're starting out with the best possible quality....so, just to get myself straight, any, any, any high speed copying to DVD no matter what will result in "pauses"...Any video mode high-speed copy to DVD will result in slight pauses at edit points, however a high-speed copy in VR mode will play back the same as the HDD original...just not as compatible with other players. Also, other players may not have as "seamless" a playback in VR mode even if they are VR mode compatible.

Sean Nelson

12-08-06, 04:49 PM

Came in a box with NO peanuts for which it slid around inside and also took an accordian squoosh when must have been dropped.Hopefully there was the Pioneer box (with the logos, model name, pictures, etc. on it) inside the brown cardboard shipping box? The Pioneer box has some cushioning in it so here's hoping it will be OK. The HDD is actually pretty rugged when it's turned off, so I wouldn't expect there to be a problem with it.

equivocal

12-08-06, 07:15 PM

Well I just recevied my PIO 640 from BeachCamera.
Came in a box with NO peanuts for which it slid around inside and also
took an accordian squoosh when must have been dropped.

Mine also arrived today in similar condition.
The tape along the top end was torn leaving that end half open. There weren't enough peanuts to fill the box completely. And it had been crushed along one side. The FedEx guy asked me if I wanted to refuse delivery.

The Pioneer box inside looked okay. But I noticed the contents thumping around as I turned the box around. Inside I found that the recorder does not fit snugly in the foam inserts. About 1/2 inch of play, illustrated with my finger (index, if you're wondering).

Bad news: it powers up with HDD ERR. My $319 doorstop was manufactured in August. And BeachCamera is closed (I hate timezones). Should have refused.

David Susilo

12-08-06, 08:09 PM

Any video mode high-speed copy to DVD will result in slight pauses at edit points, however a high-speed copy in VR mode will play back the same as the HDD original...just not as compatible with other players. Also, other players may not have as "seamless" a playback in VR mode even if they are VR mode compatible.

It seems like this is caused by Multi Session recording mode (can't be changed) used by the Pioneer unit. Try recording it at high speed to DVD-RW, then copy the entire thing to your PC by drag-and-drop the video_ts folder. Then just burn disc-at-once to another disc and in my cases, the pauses always disappear.

BaltimoreStan

12-08-06, 09:56 PM

Thanks, AC, for the response!

I believe your problem is that since you did an optimized recording (from MN21 to MN14) directly to a VR mode DVD, you had no choice but to record in VR mode so you got a non-standard resolution which the video mode gods will frown upon.

Interesting... so wven though my HD is set for Video mode, when I high-speed copy a VR mode title from DVD-RW to HDD, it stays in VR mode?

I recommend high-speed copying the MN21 recordings to a VR Mode DVD, and then with your HDD Recording format set to Video Mode = On, do a real-time copy from the VR mode DVD to the HDD to convert to MN14. Since the new MN14 video mode recording will use 720x480 instead of 544x480 (which the VR mode recording would have used,) the video mode gods will be happy and you should be able to high-speed copy all 4 recordings to a video mode DVD.

I'll give it a try and report back.

bobkart

12-08-06, 10:39 PM

Interesting... so rven though my HD is set for Video mode, when I high-speed copy a VR mode title from DVD-RW to HDD, it stays in VR mode?
A High-Speed Copy will be identical to the original in every way, including the mode (Video or VR).

ACPewty

12-08-06, 11:34 PM

Interesting... so wven though my HD is set for Video mode, when I high-speed copy a VR mode title from DVD-RW to HDD, it stays in VR mode?
Yes, the HDD recording mode setting only affects recordings to the HDD.

The mode (VR or Video) of a DVD determines the type of recording that it can hold. If a DVD is initialized as VR mode, a real-time recording encoded directly to the DVD will always be VR mode. Similarly a video mode DVD can only have video mode compatible recordings on it, which is why a real-time copy is necessary if an original HDD recording is in a resolution only compatible with VR mode. (The resolution must be converted to something compatible with video mode.)

tomtv

12-08-06, 11:56 PM

Urlee and equivocal:

You are making me nervous. I ordered a Pio640 Monday PM from Beach Camera. I am told it is on backorder and shipping will be expedited when they restock. Think I should cancel and shop elsewhere? My price was $327.

Anyone else have problems with Beach Camera?

tomtv

eddiekirstein

12-09-06, 12:46 AM

equivocal

12-09-06, 03:30 AM

Mine from Beach came earlier this week. It really seemed like a fresh unit. Had a thin styrofoam piece just inside the front door to protect it during shipping, I assume. Did any of these others from Beach have that?

Yes, that was there, along with a sheet of padding wrapped around the unit and two styrofoam blocks.

Had some success playing a DVD and changing channels, but any attempt to bring up a menu causes it to lock up. For some reason the display usually says "CLOSE".

BaltimoreStan

12-09-06, 06:36 AM

A High-Speed Copy will be identical to the original in every way, including the mode (Video or VR).

You're referring to DVD to HDD copy, right? I initialized a DVD-RW in VR mode and I'm right now high-speed copying two MN21 video-mode recordings from HDD to DVD. Of course, it remains to be seen whether the copy actually works. :)

*Some* sort of conversion must be going on, though. Usually a 2-hour disk takes 7-8 minutes to burn. This one says 21 minutes for an hour and a half of program.

BaltimoreStan

12-09-06, 09:39 AM

My isue, to remind everyone, is that I had two MN21's and two MN14's on my HDD, aggregating 3 hours, and wanted to get all four onto a video mode DVD-R in MN14.

I recommend high-speed copying the MN21 recordings to a VR Mode DVD, and then with your HDD Recording format set to Video Mode = On, do a real-time copy from the VR mode DVD to the HDD to convert to MN14. Since the new MN14 video mode recording will use 720x480 instead of 544x480 (which the VR mode recording would have used,) the video mode gods will be happy and you should be able to high-speed copy all 4 recordings to a video mode DVD.

Thanks again -- I've now tried it and this does work. Chapter stops were retained in all three copies:
HDD Video MN21 high speed --> DVD-RW VR MN21
DVD-RW VR MN21 real time --> HDD video MN14
HDD video MN14 --> DVD-R video MN14

ACPewty

12-09-06, 11:35 AM

*Some* sort of conversion must be going on, though. Usually a 2-hour disk takes 7-8 minutes to burn. This one says 21 minutes for an hour and a half of program.No conversions take place during high-speed copy. Your -RW DVDs just don't have as high a speed rating, so it takes longer to copy to them.

Glad your copy turned out ok. :) How's the pq on the episodes that started out at MN21? They can't be as good because they went through a 2nd encode, but are they much worse at MN14?

bobkart

12-09-06, 04:21 PM

No conversions take place during high-speed copy. Your -RW DVDs just don't have as high a speed rating, so it takes longer to copy to them.
My answer exactly.

Homeschool Mom

12-09-06, 11:21 PM

I ordered my 640 from Vann's on a Tuesday and we had it by that Friday.

It was packed in its original carton inside another box and surrounded with foam.

I had a confirmation of the order as others have reported before.

I have used it to record over 40 hours of programming and have already edited a few of the programs.

It could not have come any sooner or better timed as we had a water leak and the programs are being recorded while we are staying elsewhere until repairs are made.

Once again, thanks for everyone's help in choosing.

BaltimoreStan

12-10-06, 06:39 AM

How's the pq on the episodes that started out at MN21? They can't be as good because they went through a 2nd encode, but are they much worse at MN14?

The PQ is just okay -- as you suggest, a bit poorer than on the episodes recorded directly in MN14. /Homefront/ is rather "talky" so there aren't a lot of action shots. Some fast motions do look noticeably grainy, but on my 27" set it's tolerable. I may regret this if I ever get a large screen.

But at MN21 I'd need 24 DVDs to hold both seasons of the show, and this way I need only 12.

BaltimoreStan

12-10-06, 06:41 AM

No conversions take place during high-speed copy. Your -RW DVDs just don't have as high a speed rating, so it takes longer to copy to them.

That makes sense -- thanks for the explanation.

nursing

12-10-06, 12:44 PM

Hi,

Is there anything special that needs to be set up in any settings for the S-Video on input 1 to work? I am getting the audio but no video showing up using the S-Video on input 1...

ACPewty

12-10-06, 04:31 PM

Hi,

Is there anything special that needs to be set up in any settings for the S-Video on input 1 to work? I am getting the audio but no video showing up using the S-Video on input 1...Nope...no special settings although I believe I've read you should use only one type of cable per input, ie don't leave both s-video and composite(RCA) connected at the same time for the same input.

Sorry...better check your cables/connections again. :( (Maybe you've connected the wrong s-video input, or connected an output instead of an input?)

wajo

12-10-06, 04:37 PM

Since you are getting sound, you should have Input 1 connections on the back with Red - White - EMPTY Yellow - S-Video cables?

nursing

12-10-06, 05:37 PM

bobkart

12-10-06, 05:40 PM

Does it work if you just use the Composite Video (Yellow RCA) connection instead of the S-Video?

wajo

12-10-06, 06:27 PM

...that's right...I have red and white composite cable going into input 1 and have left the yellow off...and I have an S-Video cable in input 1 as well...I am trying to get the S-Video output from the Scientific Atlanta 8300HD PVR into the DVD Recorder...nothing but black screen though...possibly the S-Video out or the S-Video in connections may be faulty...
SA 8300HD box? Now it makes sense.

Someone with one of those boxes needs to tell you what you have to do to get it to output 480i via one of its outputs..."Out to VCR" or something like that. I've heard of others who have to "set" their boxes to output 480i, etc.

Anyone with a SA8300HD box....????

bobkart

12-10-06, 06:53 PM

Hence my suggestion to try Composite Video, if that works it rules out a non-480i problem. But I suspect that won't work either, leading to the 480p (or higher) problem.

Seeker47

12-10-06, 09:59 PM

copying HDD > DVD while recording on the HDD

I don't think my 520 can do that.

ngohit

12-10-06, 10:18 PM

I don't think my 520 can do that.

The 520 can in this situation: If you have a program scheduled to record to the HDD and start copying something to a DVD from the HDD _before_ the 520 goes into standby, the copy will be completed.

kjbawc

12-11-06, 12:35 AM

The PQ is just okay -- as you suggest, a bit poorer than on the episodes recorded directly in MN14. /Homefront/ is rather "talky" so there aren't a lot of action shots. Some fast motions do look noticeably grainy, but on my 27" set it's tolerable. I may regret this if I ever get a large screen.

But at MN21 I'd need 24 DVDs to hold both seasons of the show, and this way I need only 12.

I record one hour programs at MN20. With the commercials edited out, three easily fit on one DVD. That's economical enough for me, at $.26 per disc. The difference between MN20, and SP (MN 21) is very hard to see, even on my 56" DLP TV. I'd suggest you compromise and put three on a disc, instead of four. That would be 18 discs, costing less that $6, and look way better than MN14.

Heineken77

12-11-06, 01:06 AM

bobkart

12-11-06, 01:15 AM

It's best to record to HDD at the right bitrate (MN setting) that you will want to use on the DVD. That way you can use a High-Speed Copy from HDD to DVD.

MN32 = 60+ minutes
MN31 = 65 minutes
MN30 = 70 minutes
and so forth. At two hours the increments change to every 10 minutes instead of every 5. Your User Manual should have this information.

Your question 4 doeesn't make sense because you start out talking about recording, but end up talking about playback. Are you asking about recording or playback?

Budget_HT

12-11-06, 01:25 AM

...
I don't understand the MN settings too much....where can I find how long each one will end up being.
...

See page 125 of your 640 user's manual for a table of recording times for various MN settings.

kjbawc

12-11-06, 01:31 AM

Hey guys, just have a few quick questions :)

1) I want to mainly archive boxing matches. Sometimes a match including ring entrances + post fight interviews can run just over an hour (1hour 10mins say). Is it best to record in SP mode, or is there a recommended MN setting? ((I don't understand the MN settings too much....where can I find how long each one will end up being?))

2) Is SP Mode recording as good as DVD video quality? Is there any noticeable difference in XP and SP mode in terms of video quality?

3) Is it recommended to record in XP mode to HDD and then burn in SP or another MN mode, or if I know what I want the DVD to hold, should I record to the HD in the MN mode that I will be using to burn?

4) When recording to a Dual Layer DVD, when the first layer reaches it's end, will the DVD stop and I'll have to choose a new title, or will it seemlessly play through and the layer won't be noticeable?

Thanks guys :)

1 & 3: On page 125 of the manual, you will find a listing of recording times at the various MN settings. You will actually get a bit more than they list, i.e. 96 min. when they say 90 min, depending on your disc brand.

You should record in the MN setting that best fits the program(s) you want to get on the disc, after commercials are edited out. That is because high speed copies are only possible when recording at the same speed as the HDD recording. If you want to fit two 70 min programs on one disc, use the MN setting that says 140 min. If you only want 70 min. on a disc, you can use a setting close to XP.

2 Yes, there is a difference in picture quality between XP and SP, but it might not always be apparent. If you have a large screen TV, it will be more likely to be visible. If you are recording from an HD source, say an HD program, from the S-Vid out from your cable box, which will not be HD, but be a better signal than SD, and record in XP, or even SP, you can come close to the quality of a good commercial DVD, but you will never get the DD 5.1 sound.

4 When recording to a DL disc, and playing back on your 640, there will be a slight pause at the layer change. It seems a few other DVD players can sometimes freeze at this point, and some don't have a detectable pause. It will only create a new chapter at the change if you are recording in real time, but not if you do a HS dub.

Heineken77

12-11-06, 02:07 AM

Thank you very much bobkart, Budget_HT and kjbawc! :)

I have a 50" Plasma HDTV, however most of my recording will be done via sattelite which pushes an mpeg2 stream. The captures at 9000 bitrate via RCA cables on my PC turn out real good looking.

Most of my recording will be done onto HDD, edit commercials and then burn. It's too bad that I can't use High-Speed Dubbing with Dual Layer discs in order to bypass the issue of the disk creating a new title on the second layer rather than a new chapter. What do most people do in that case?

I guess when it comes down to how much I want to fit onto a DVD, I will have to record a clip at MN32, and then try it at mn31 ... mn30 etc. in order to see for myself what the quality differences are. Was just hoping to save some money on discs LOL

Can I record MN32 for a minute, stop then record MN29 say....and then burn those 2 videos from my HD to DVD, in order to see the differences, or do I need to keep the quality of all files the same when recording to DVD from HDD?

Right now I have DVD+R dual layer and DVD+R single layers. Any reason to use another format?

Cheers!

bobkart

12-11-06, 02:19 AM

You can work around the split-Title problem by anticipating the final (for the DVD) recording quality and using that for your recording to the HDD. This involves estimating how much shorter it will be after you edit out the commercials (as well as estimating the total length in the case that it's not known in advance). Then you can use a High-Speed Copy to the DL disc which doesn't cause the split-Title problem.

I doubt you'll notice a difference between MN32, MN31, and MN30. Yes you can record very short Titles in each of those recording qualities to the HDD, and you don't even need to burn them to a DVD (but you could, each Title is allowed to be of a different bitrate than the others on a disc), because a High-Speed copy does not change anything about the contents copied, so it will look the same being played back from the HDD as it will being played back from a DVD.

Those + disc formats should be fine. Only much older players might not play a DVD+R.

kjbawc

12-11-06, 02:45 AM

Most of my recording will be done onto HDD, edit commercials and then burn. It's too bad that I can't use High-Speed Dubbing with Dual Layer discs in order to bypass the issue of the disk creating a new title on the second layer rather than a new chapter. What do most people do in that case?

Well, Bobkart seems to understand that, but I don't... :)

You can high-speed dub to a DL disc, and it will NOT create a separate title at the layer change. It will create a chapter at the layer change only if you do a real-time dub.

The amount of pause at layer change during playback is dependent on what machine you play it back on. Some players handle layer changes better than others.

You can only create separate titles by recording things separately, or doing a divide in the editing menu.

Be warned that the thumbnail on a DL disc must come from a frame on the first layer.

I use +R DL discs because of their availability, and price. But, I only use -R single layer discs. That is not just for compatibility with other players, but also because you have more options with them on the 640, and you can FF much faster with -Rs than +Rs, on the 640.

Heineken77

12-11-06, 03:07 AM

Thanks again guys!! Reason why I'm confused about the Dual Layer burning and splitting the video into a new title when it comes to the new layer is because of what the 640's manual says on page 34:

When the recorder switches from the first layer to the second during recording a DVD-R DL (Video Mode) disc, a new title is automatically started on the new layer.

and I'm almost sure I saw another part of the manual saying something about +R DL discs having this issue as well. So would the new title issue only happen if you're recording from TV directly to DVD, rather than HDD to DVD?

---------
1 more final question for the night if ya don't mind :) I actually had 2 but it's so late here I can't remember what it was LOL I'll try to remember that for tomorrow.

If I decide to use frame accurate editing in order to edit commercials out more precisely. Is it then possible to High Speed dub that video file to a video mode DVD? And will the edits and chapter marks be EXACT doing it this way on the finalized DVD?

Thanks again guys, you guys really helped me grasp a lot!!

bobkart

12-11-06, 03:20 AM

That statement about a new Title being automatically created is technically inaccurate, since it only happens during Real-Time Copies, not High-Speed Copies.

I would never record straight to a DVD. Just record to the HDD first at the same bitrate, then High-Speed Copy to DVD in a few minutes. That way you get a chance to at least trim the ends (don't have to be exactly right when you start/stop the recording), and if the media happens to have a problem you don't lose the recording, just dub it again on a new disc.

If you make Frame-Accurate cuts, or Chapter Marks, then High-Speed copy, the cut points and/or Chapter Marks will move slightly, to the nearest GOP boundary (nearest half-second). So if you plan to High-Speed Copy the result of editing, you might as well use the Compatibility Mode for cuts/Chapter Marks, since that's where they'll end up anyway.

kjbawc

12-11-06, 05:19 AM

H 77, I guess I misremembered, and thought it made a new chapter, not title, in a real-time dub. :o I am at work, and didn't have the manual with me.

Bobkart is right about the editing. Several here have experimented, and tried to preserve frame accurate editing in a HS dub, but haven't had any success. Only in a real-time dub, when it is reencoded, will the frame accurate edits be preserved.

nursing

12-11-06, 07:37 AM

Does it work if you just use the Composite Video (Yellow RCA) connection instead of the S-Video?

Hi Bobkart,

Yes...it works if I use the Composite video (yellow cable) instead of the S-Video...

nursing

12-11-06, 07:42 AM

SA 8300HD box? Now it makes sense.

Someone with one of those boxes needs to tell you what you have to do to get it to output 480i via one of its outputs..."Out to VCR" or something like that. I've heard of others who have to "set" their boxes to output 480i, etc.

Hi Wabjxo,

Although I have an 8300HD Box, my TV is an 18 year old Sony Trinitron and the box is set up for 480i fixed output...yes...I am using the "Copy to VCR" function on the 8300 box to transfer archived material to the 640 Pio...I have been using the Composite cables/connections with no problems...just wanted to see if the S-Video connections would work as well as I understand that there would be better quality using them (480 lines vs 400 lines)...