Try using the L2 or L3 input with your S-Vid cable, and see if that works. If not, do you have another S-Vid cable to try? Sure sounds like a bad connection to me.

Well...I just tested and confirmed that the "Copy to VCR" function using S-Video does not work with my 8300HD PVR hooked up to a Pioneer 640 DVD Recorder...I tested all of the S-Video connections with my Camcorder as well as just using the 8300HD's S-Video connection to output through the DVD Recorder's L1, L2 and L3 inputs and it worked fine...as soon as I tried using the "Copy to VCR" function though, nothing but a black screen...so, I don't know what the solution is, if there even is one, but in my current setup, this doesn't work...

Thanks David...I will call them and see what options they give me...maybe they can deliver...

If they won't deliver, just pay the remote with your credit card over the phone and I'll pick it up for your and either I deliver it to you (if you place is on my way) or Canada Post it, or you can pick it up from my house on the weekend (Pioneer closes on weekends and IIRC closes early on Fridays)

I record one hour programs at MN20. With the commercials edited out, three easily fit on one DVD. That's economical enough for me, at $.26 per disc. The difference between MN20, and SP (MN 21) is very hard to see, even on my 56" DLP TV. I'd suggest you compromise and put three on a disc, instead of four. That would be 18 discs, costing less that $6, and look way better than MN14.

Thanks for the suggestion. I didn't even consider the cost, just the shelf space. 12 discs for 48 episodes, even with slimline cases, is going to take a lot of room. 18 would be even worse.

The episodes recorded directly in MN14 are quite acceptable in PQ though, I agree, not equal to MN21 or MN20. It was just the ones recorded at MN21 and converted to MN14 that were noticeably grainy.

Hey guys, just have a few quick questions :)

1) I want to mainly archive boxing matches. Sometimes a match including ring entrances + post fight interviews can run just over an hour (1hour 10mins say). Is it best to record in SP mode, or is there a recommended MN setting? ((I don't understand the MN settings too much....where can I find how long each one will end up being?))

Page 125 of the manual. If you expect each match to be 70 minutes, you could record a disc at SP (MN21) and just let 40% of it be blank, or you could record originally to HDD at MN30. Either way, you want to do a high-speed copy to DVD so that you don't end up converting the video signal twice.

2) Is SP Mode recording as good as DVD video quality? Is there any noticeable difference in XP and SP mode in terms of video quality?

(a) No, and (b) this depends on your eyes and your TV set. My eyes are half a century old, and I can't see a difference between SP and XP, but you might able to. Experiment. Burn a couple of discs and take them to a friend who has the biggest TV you think you mighte ever own.

3) Is it recommended to record in XP mode to HDD and then burn in SP or another MN mode, or if I know what I want the DVD to hold, should I record to the HD in the MN mode that I will be using to burn?

Definitely the latter. Absolutely. Every time you convert a signal from one auality to another (up or down) you lose something. So make your initial recording to HDD in the same mode as your ultimate recording to DVD.

When I boxed up my 633 for return, I forgot to pack the remote.

Evidently Pioneer doesn't care, because they sent my refund anyway. I've been uysing my 633 remote with my 640 recorder.

Anyone who has yet to return your 633 for refund or exchange might at least want to ask if you can keep the remote. Or if you feel lucky, you could just send the DVR without remote and see if they ask you for it. :)

If they won't deliver, just pay the remote with your credit card over the phone and I'll pick it up for your and either I deliver it to you (if you place is on my way) or Canada Post it, or you can pick it up from my house on the weekend (Pioneer closes on weekends and IIRC closes early on Fridays)

Thanks so much David...I will give them a call and let you know what they say...thanks again...

Thanks for the suggestion. I didn't even consider the cost, just the shelf space. 12 discs for 48 episodes, even with slimline cases, is going to take a lot of room. 18 would be even worse.

The episodes recorded directly in MN14 are quite acceptable in PQ though, I agree, not equal to MN21 or MN20. It was just the ones recorded at MN21 and converted to MN14 that were noticeably grainy.

Ah, well... you need to explore different case options. Meritline has cases that hold 6 DVDs in a case only twice as thick as a standard DVD case. I have used these to make large sets of things.

The cases I prefer come from Rima. They are CD case sized, but made of the same soft plastic as standard DVD cases, not the brittle, easily broken plastic of CD jewel cases. But, I buy clear ones, with a clear wrap around sleeve, to hold the cover/label to it. They come in both a single hub version, and a double hub version. Both are just standard thickness. So, for Dr. Who, I put two discs with three MN20 eps each, in one standard thickness case. That makes three cases for one season of 18 eps.

You would need four standard thickness cases per season.

When I boxed up my 633 for return, I forgot to pack the remote.

Evidently Pioneer doesn't care, because they sent my refund anyway. I've been uysing my 633 remote with my 640 recorder.

Anyone who has yet to return your 633 for refund or exchange might at least want to ask if you can keep the remote. Or if you feel lucky, you could just send the DVR without remote and see if they ask you for it. :)Pioneer Canada gave me permission in advance (quietly though) to keep my 633 remote when I exchanged it for a 640, and also let me purchase another one with VISA and put it in the 640 box. They did say however that it wasn't standard procedure.

Thanks David...I will call them and see what options they give me...maybe they can deliver...

David, I called Pioneer Electronics in Markham...they directed me to call ARGO NEXUS Inc., on the Danforth, who deals with Parts for Pioneer...I called them and they are going to check if the remote is in stock...it will cost 58.13 + 7.56 tax + 10.00 shipping = $75.69 for the VXX2967 Remote...does this sound fair to you...

David, I called Pioneer Electronics in Markham...they directed me to call ARGO NEXUS Inc., on the Danforth, who deals with Parts for Pioneer...I called them and they are going to check if the remote is in stock...it will cost 58.13 + 7.56 tax + 10.00 shipping = $75.69 for the VXX2967 Remote...does this sound fair to you...

That sounds fair. I bought a replacement for my CLD-604 for about the same price (but directly from Pioneer service dept, not from Argo Nexus)

...the deed is done...I have ordered the remote...should have it in 2-3 days...thanks for all of your help...

David, I called Pioneer Electronics in Markham...they directed me to call ARGO NEXUS Inc., on the Danforth, who deals with Parts for Pioneer...I called them and they are going to check if the remote is in stock...it will cost 58.13 + 7.56 tax + 10.00 shipping = $75.69 for the VXX2967 Remote...does this sound fair to you...Ouch! I paid CDN $38.75 total from Pioneer Canada for mine. Maybe you can buy from Pioneer USA (http://parts.pioneerelectronics.com/part.asp?productNum=VXX2967) by calling? Doesn't seem right that Canadian customers should have to pay that much more even after taking into account the exchange rate. Today even using bank exhange rates CDN $58.13 = US $49.75. US Purchasers only have to pay US $35.66 so Canadians have to pay 28% more even at the worst exchange rate? Maybe it's worth calling Pioneer to mention that. I know we're not talking big bucks here, but something isn't right and Pioneer shouldn't let Argo Nexus ream customers like that especially if there is no other option.

EDIT...oops, looks like I'm not a fast enough typer. :(

...yeah...I know...this seems to happen alot to us Canadians in the electronics world...hopefully I will enjoy the remote so much better, I will forget about the cost... :)

David, I called Pioneer Electronics in Markham...they directed me to call ARGO NEXUS Inc., on the Danforth, who deals with Parts for Pioneer...I called them and they are going to check if the remote is in stock...it will cost 58.13 + 7.56 tax + 10.00 shipping = $75.69 for the VXX2967 Remote...does this sound fair to you...

You might also want to consider the VXX2932. This is the remote that came with the 420/520. It's the same price and doesn't have that TVGuide key.

http://www.pioneerdirect.com/part.asp?productNum=VXX2932

Does it do the exact same thing as the VXX2967 and without the TV Guide button...just wondering why no-one mentioned it in this thread...

Can the Pio HDD be easily replaced with a commodity drive? I'm thinking of Polaroid owner(s) who replaced its 80G with an off the shelf 250G just by swapping out the drive.

Only the Polaroid is known to suport such drive-swapping.

Does it do the exact same thing as the VXX2967 and without the TV Guide button...just wondering why no-one mentioned it in this thread...

The VX2967 actually does more than the remote for the 531/633, but the main key unusable on the 420/520's remote (chapter mark key) is in a easier place to avoid.

THe last part of you question? well, this thread is so long, it's highly possible us 420/520 owners missed postings that mentioned substitute remote models or didn't pay much attention. Also, there could be a number of ex-531/633 owners who exchanged their machines for 640s and know their old remote works (but cannot comment on the 420/520 remote because they did not own one of these machines).

Greetings,
I have purchased, and am currently using a 520H remote with my new 640H.
I have posted earlier on my findings.
Is there any specific question that I may help answer for you?

mikel

Bobkart is right about the editing. Several here have experimented, and tried to preserve frame accurate editing in a HS dub, but haven't had any success. Only in a real-time dub, when it is reencoded, will the frame accurate edits be preserved.

Thanks bro, so in real-time dubbing being that it is re-encoded...preserving the edits is great, but does the quality degrate at all in comparisson to HS dubs?

cheerz :)

Thanks for the reply Baltimore :)

P.S. What's the benefits of the remotes people are buying in order to switch out the stock remote?

Cheers!

Sorry 1 more quick question to add to those above :) Can I record to the HDD while watching a DVD in the unit?

Thanks!

Thanks bro, so in real-time dubbing being that it is re-encoded...preserving the edits is great, but does the quality degrate at all in comparisson to HS dubs?

cheerz :)

From my personal experience, if you want to end up with (say) SP mode, it's better to record in XP mode then do a real-time dubbing to SP rather than recording directly to SP mode. It acts somewhat like a dual-pass encoding.

Too bad it doesn't have XP+ mode anymore. I used to do XP+, then moved to XP and the result is better than direct XP mode.

From my personal experience, if you want to end up with (say) SP mode, it's better to record in XP mode then do a real-time dubbing to SP rather than recording directly to SP mode. It acts somewhat like a dual-pass encoding.

Too bad it doesn't have XP+ mode anymore. I used to do XP+, then moved to XP and the result is better than direct XP mode.

Nice to know David! Thanks for the info.
Would like to hear from others if they've experienced the same, because most say the best way to go is to record in the mode you want and do an HS dub or that I'd lose quality any other way.

Sorry 1 more quick question to add to those above :) Can I record to the HDD while watching a DVD in the unit?

Thanks!
Yes, you can also Copy from HDD to DVD while the HDD is recording.

What's the benefits of the remotes people are buying in order to switch out the stock remote?There are buttons missing on the 640 remote: Open/Close Tray, TV controls, Timer Record and many buttons are hidden by an annoying sliding door. Also, Commercial Skip on the 640 Remote does not work for finalized recordings, but using the 633 remote (VXX2967) on the 640 it does. Except for the chapter mark button, the earlier remotes work on the 640 out of the box...no programming necessary.

Can I record to the HDD while watching a DVD in the unit?Yes. You can also play any previously recorded program, including the one currently being recorded (chase play) while recording, and you have all the usual control to FF/RW, commercial skip etc.

Would like to hear from others if they've experienced the same, because most say the best way to go is to record in the mode you want and do an HS dub or that I'd lose quality any other way.You will always lose pq if you re-encode. IMHO it is always better to record to the HDD at the correct bitrate in the first place, but if frame accuracy is a big issue for you then you the only way to preserve it with a HS copy is to copy to a VR mode DVD which is less compatible with other players.

Thanks a lot wab and AC!! :)

Cheers!

in the back of this dvr...does any1 know what kinda optical is it using for the audio: Digital Coaxial Audio or Optical Toslink? thx in advance.

coaxial digital out you have.

on my sattelite receiver I only have RCA out though for video. Is there any way to upgrade that signal to send it via S-Video? .. And would I notice a major difference in quality if any?

Thanks!

I recently purchased an used 533 from ebay and so far is working OK, but want to know if it's a good idea to upgrade to a 640 as far as PQ and features?

I have 3 issues with the 640 (I don't know about the 533 so this may or may not apply to you)

1. Missing XP+ mode
2. ocassional close-caption problem (pass through is not a problem, but once recorded to HDD, the recording's close caption often times garbled)
3. missing firewire input

From my personal experience, if you want to end up with (say) SP mode, it's better to record in XP mode then do a real-time dubbing to SP rather than recording directly to SP mode. It acts somewhat like a dual-pass encoding.I am very skeptical that this is the case. The recording you make at XP mode has lost some of information in the original because even XP mode uses "lossy" compression (and it's quite a lot of loss, in fact). Therefore, when making a 2nd-generation SP-mode copy from the 1st-generation XP-mode version the encoder doesn't have the full original data to work with. There's just no way I can see that you'd end up with a better result.

It's true that a 2-pass encoder can create a better result even at the same recording "speed" - but this is a different process entirely than the 2-generation copy you're suggesting. 2-pass encoding is done in one generation from the original to the copy, but the encoder has the luxury of taking it's time and reading the original twice in order to choose the best encoding algorithm. In the 2-generation copy you're suggesting, both copies are done in "real time" and the encoder has limited information to work with.

The Pioneer 531/533/633 models had an "XP+" mode that allowed recording of material to the hard drive at 15Mbps, 50% more than the highest supported bitrate on a DVD. There was previously some discussion that the extra data stored on the hard drive in this mode was the same data that a 2-pass encoder could use to improve the quality of a 2nd-generation copy. But I've never seen a post that was more than speculation about that, and I'm also skeptical that even a 2nd-generation SP copy from XP+ would be better than a version recorded at SP in the first place.

I recently purchased an used 533 from ebay and so far is working OK, but want to know if it's a good idea to upgrade to a 640 as far as PQ and features?Here's a post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9149405#post9149405) containing a comparison of features lost and gained when upgrading from a 633 to a 640. You would just add the upgrade to the 160Gb HDD size of the 640 vs the 80Gb size of the 533.

Nice to know David! Thanks for the info.
Would like to hear from others if they've experienced the same, because most say the best way to go is to record in the mode you want and do an HS dub or that I'd lose quality any other way.

I always record my programs to the hard drive using SP.
Then if it is a show I want to keep and burn, I just HS copy to DVD and am very satisfied with the quality.
I am speaking of viewing on a 50" big screen Mitsubishi TV.
Maybe other big screen tv's do not show as good but mine is great.

Urlee

PS: It also says in the manual, Quote" Note that if you copy at a higher quality setting than the original, the copy will not be better quality than the original".
So if I copy my SP cam recordings to the HD using XP, then they will be no better?

Also, Commercial Skip on the 640 Remote does not work for finalized recordings, but using the 633 remote (VXX2967) on the 640 it does.


Who leaves the commercals in when you Copy/Finalize a recording, to have to use it????????? :confused:

When I want to copy a program, I always take the commercials out first! Who wants to save commercials? :)

Urlee

I am very skeptical that this is the case. The recording you make at XP mode has lost some of information in the original because even XP mode uses "lossy" compression (and it's quite a lot of loss, in fact). Therefore, when making a 2nd-generation SP-mode copy from the 1st-generation XP-mode version the encoder doesn't have the full original data to work with. There's just no way I can see that you'd end up with a better result.

It's true that a 2-pass encoder can create a better result even at the same recording "speed" - but this is a different process entirely than the 2-generation copy you're suggesting. 2-pass encoding is done in one generation from the original to the copy, but the encoder has the luxury of taking it's time and reading the original twice in order to choose the best encoding algorithm. In the 2-generation copy you're suggesting, both copies are done in "real time" and the encoder has limited information to work with.

The Pioneer 531/533/633 models had an "XP+" mode that allowed recording of material to the hard drive at 15Mbps, 50% more than the highest supported bitrate on a DVD. There was previously some discussion that the extra data stored on the hard drive in this mode was the same data that a 2-pass encoder could use to improve the quality of a 2nd-generation copy. But I've never seen a post that was more than speculation about that, and I'm also skeptical that even a 2nd-generation SP copy from XP+ would be better than a version recorded at SP in the first place.

If it is encoded with one mode, then decoded to analog and back re-encoded with another mode, then your argument is valid. However, the data is re-encoded digitally, so it is equivalent to 2nd pass.

The cost of DVD-RW is $1 at the most, why don't you just try it yourself. The difference on my 46" TV is quite substantial (rain, water ripple, and scenes with fine details). ;)

which Digital Coaxial Audio cable i should get for my 640?

this one:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10236&cs_id=1023601&p_id=619&seq=1&format=2&style=

or this one:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10236&cs_id=1023602&p_id=2680&seq=1&format=2&style=

So if I copy my SP cam recordings to the HD using XP, then they will be no better?You always loose something when you make a copy that isn't "high-speed". You loose less if you copy to a higher speed. So if you copy your SP-mode recordings to XP, they won't look any better than SP, but they'll loose a little less than if you copy them to SP. In other words, an SP-to-XP copy will look closer to the SP original, whereas an SP-to-SP copy will look a little worse. That's the theory, anyway, but I'm not sure the difference is anything you'd be able to notice.

Is anyone here using a device to remove the various macrovision and CGM* analog protections. I recently ordered a unit from xdimax and am having issues having the copyguard come through with the 640h. I am not sure if it is an issue with my source or if it is something else.

BTW, the reason I am trying to do this is to have better compatibility with my other DVD players which don't play VR media.

My equipment is:

JVC 40000U DVHS
Motorola 6412
Denon 3910
Pioneer 640H

I mostly am using the JVC to convert the Firewire output from the 6412 to an anamorphic wide screen signal to be recorded by the pioneer. My problem is that I am getting random copyguard signals in the recorded HDD file. This in turn limits me to VR media or RAM media which is just not compatible.

Any ideas??

Chris V>

You always loose something when you make a copy that isn't "high-speed". You loose less if you copy to a higher speed. So if you copy your SP-mode recordings to XP, they won't look any better than SP, but they'll loose a little less than if you copy them to SP. In other words, an SP-to-XP copy will look closer to the SP original, whereas an SP-to-SP copy will look a little worse. That's the theory, anyway, but I'm not sure the difference is anything you'd be able to notice.

Sean,
I shall, one of these days experiment with that.
I will put it to XP mode when I transfer to my hard drive and copy to disc at XP.
Then I will put it back at SP mode it was originally shot at to transfer again to the hard drive.
Then I will compare the two.

Urlee

Here's a post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9149405#post9149405) containing a comparison of features lost and gained when upgrading from a 633 to a 640. You would just add the upgrade to the 160Gb HDD size of the 640 vs the 80Gb size of the 533.

Thanks, so the 640 seems a better choice overall!

Who leaves the commercals in when you Copy/Finalize a recording, to have to use it????????? :confused:

When I want to copy a program, I always take the commercials out first! Who wants to save commercials? :)

UrleeI also remove commercials for anything I commit to DVD, but I use commercial skip all the time on finalized copies to instantly advance or especially to back up to hear something again because it's much faster than FF/RW. It's also a great way to advance or back up a specific amount of time without having to bring up the Play Mode menu. I'd miss it if I still used the 640's remote. Commercial skip works for more than just commercials. :)

which Digital Coaxial Audio cable i should get for my 640?

this one:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10236&cs_id=1023601&p_id=619&seq=1&format=2&style=

or this one:
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10236&cs_id=1023602&p_id=2680&seq=1&format=2&style=
IMHO you might as well go with the cheaper one since it's a digital signal. Unless your equipment is in an environment where you think there's a chance the audio signal could be interrupted completely, no sense in wasting money because with digital either all the the bits make it through the cable or they don't. The only chance of degraded audio is a complete failure of bits making it all the way through the cable which is very unlikely. It's not like analog where quality can be lost in a cheap cable. I think all you need is to complete the circuit. Probably any old composite patch cable will do unless you have an extreme condition with major magnetic fields or something.

I also remove commercials for anything I commit to DVD, but I use commercial skip all the time on finalized copies to instantly advance or especially to back up to hear something again because it's much faster than FF/RW. It's also a great way to advance or back up a specific amount of time without having to bring up the Play Mode menu. I'd miss it if I still used the 640's remote. Commercial skip works for more than just commercials. :)
I use commercial skip (on my 520H) to speed through commercials when setting chapter markers to edit the commercials out of the recording.

I agree with ACP, that the skip forward and back features are far more handy than FF and RW, for any quick navigation.

I recently purchased an used 533 from ebay and so far is working OK, but want to know if it's a good idea to upgrade to a 640 as far as PQ and features?

I compared some of the features of the 531 to the 640 earlier in this thread in post #350. I wish I knew how to post the nifty links that others have done. Could someone tell me how? I expect the 533 differs from the 531 only by the front DV input since it shares the same manual.

There is another difference between last years 531/533 & the 640 that I have noticed which may or may not bother you.

There is no IR controller on the 640 to change channels on your cable box. There are more alternative ways of doing timer recordings on the 640 but I kind of liked that old option BECAUSE you could set up 32 programs well in advance on the Pio unit and it would automatically change your cable box channel as long as you kept the cable box on (which can be problematic in a household of many). That meant I was not limited by my cable box's pathetic 8 timer recording options.
The 640 timer recorder options (auto record on L1, IR blaster from cable box to 640, standard timer record) all require me to set my cable box timer to ensure the 640 captures the recording and that limits me to setting up a maximum of 8 recordings at any 1 time & I find that restrictive.

The remotes are quite different and some people hate the 640's. I use a harmony universal that I have programmed with the best features of both the 531 & 640 so I get the best of both worlds.

Who leaves the commercals in when you Copy/Finalize a recording, to have to use it????????? :confused:

When I want to copy a program, I always take the commercials out first! Who wants to save commercials? :)

Urlee

I sometimes finalize programs with the commercials. RIght now, I'm recording a lot of ABCFamily Christmas stuff and shall copy things onto DVDs then finalize before I take off for Christmas the 24th. They will be played at my parents.

Last year I recorded a number of things and removed all the commercials. They were _not_ enjoyed, I only played one of the DVDs I had made, because everyone likes commercials--they are used as times to get up, grab something in the kitchen, do something else. The lack of commercials made them more like movies, which are rarely watched (ones without commercials) because there are no, "Breaks."

Before copying to DVD though, I put chapter marks at the beginning and end of each commercial segment. This way one can skip through the commercial (if everyone wants to stay put) or go back to the segment when the commercials end, if people were dickering around too long and the program stated already.

For myself, I admit to doing the same for a Raymond Burr, Perry Mason movie marathon this past summer.

I should say I only do this on my 520s because of the chapter mark button on the remote.

I wish I knew how to post the nifty links that others have done. Could someone tell me how?I started a thread here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9186870&&#post9186870) to answer your question.

There is another difference between last years 531/533 & the 640 that I have noticed which may or may not bother you...There is no IR controller on the 640 to change channels on your cable box.Thanks, I forgot that one...I added it to the list of differences in the other thread. :)

If it is encoded with one mode, then decoded to analog and back re-encoded with another mode, then your argument is valid. However, the data is re-encoded digitally, so it is equivalent to 2nd pass.

The cost of DVD-RW is $1 at the most, why don't you just try it yourself.On my Pioneer 633, real-time copies are done in the analog domain. This is pretty obvious because they are (a) in real time (ie, copying a 1-hour show takes 1 hour), and (b) the program being copied is played on the screen as it's copied. If the movie was being re-encoded digitally, neither of these would be the case. Does your machine not do this?

Even in the digital domain, you really must understand that a 2-generation copy (copying a copy) is not the same as a 2-pass encoder. They are entirely different!

I took you up on your challenge. The following captures are from the last chapter of the Superbit version of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. The first was recorded at XP mode to the HDD and then real-time copied to DVD at SP, the second was recorded at SP mode to the HDD and then high-speed copied to DVD at SP.

If you drag both images to one otherwise empty folder on your computer, then double-click on one of them to open up Windows Picture and Fax Viewer, you can do an A/B test between them by repeatedly clicking on the right-arrow button at the bottom. (Make sure the viewer is full-screen so that it doesn't scale down the images)

When I did this, the image that looked better to me was the one originally recorded at SP. I invite you to try this for yourself. In fact, I think it would be interesting for everyone with an interest in this subject to try it and report your preference.

Recorded at XP, real-time copied to SP
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r64/SMN-8711/DVD-Recorders/XP-to-SP.jpg

Recorded at SP, high-speed copied to SP
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r64/SMN-8711/DVD-Recorders/SP-to-SP.jpg

I started a thread here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9186870&&#post9186870) to answer your question.

Thanks, I forgot that one...I added it to the list of differences in the other thread. :)

link to post #350 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8007709&&#post8007709)

link to previous post comparing the 531 & 640 remotes (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8424127&&#post8424127)

link to prev post comparing the 531 & 640 remotes continued (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8441827&&#post8441827)

Thanks for the tip, here are the links to my previous posts regarding the differences between this and last year's models. Ok, I really just wanted to practice putting in links :D

Sorry to repost, but is there such a converter that will take composite in and output it to s-video seeing as my sattelite box does not have s-video? If there is, will I see a major difference in quality to make it worth the purchase? Thanks!

I agree with you Sean, the SP-SP in my opinion looks a touch sharper and brighter in some spots. Unless it's just my eyes lol. Although the difference is almost insignificant that either way it would be hard to decipher which mode was used when actually viewing the DVD.

Sorry to repost, but is there such a converter that will take composite in and output it to s-video seeing as my sattelite box does not have s-video? If there is, will I see a major difference in quality to make it worth the purchase? Thanks!
Wikipedia says they won't improve PQ, but here's a website that sells RCA/S-Vid converter cables (http://www.svideo.com/rcatosvideo.html). They're pretty cheap and have some testimonials. May be worth a try?

Sorry to repost, but is there such a converter that will take composite in and output it to s-video seeing as my sattelite box does not have s-video? If there is, will I see a major difference in quality to make it worth the purchase? Thanks!

I have a cable that has RCA composite video on one end and s-video on the other. I got it at Radio Shack 3 or 4 years ago for an old setup. I don't think it improved the image at all, but I am not using it now so I can't be entirely sure.

here is a link (http://www.thesourcecc.com/estore/product.aspx?language=en-CA&product=1501598&category=SvideoCable&catalog=Online&tab=1#more) to what I have

Sorry to repost, but is there such a converter that will take composite in and output it to s-video seeing as my sattelite box does not have s-video? If there is, will I see a major difference in quality to make it worth the purchase? Thanks!I something similar to this (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2405953&cp=&origkw=s-video+composite&kw=s-video+composite&parentPage=search) a few years ago from Radio Shack. It works fine, but don't expect any improvement in picture quality. I bought mine so I could standardize on S-Video to make switching my various components easier.

Although the difference is almost insignificant that either way it would be hard to decipher which mode was used when actually viewing the DVD.Truth be told, the difference between the moving images is even harder to discern. But I strongly disagree with the notion that a second re-encoding from XP to SP would give you better quality than a direct SP encoding in the first place - I wouldn't want people to get the wrong idea in their heads, do the copy to DVD in real time, and then get an inferior image to boot, even if the difference is very subtle.

Ouch! I paid CDN $38.75 total from Pioneer Canada for mine. Maybe you can buy from Pioneer USA (http://parts.pioneerelectronics.com/part.asp?productNum=VXX2967) by calling? Doesn't seem right that Canadian customers should have to pay that much more even after taking into account the exchange rate. Today even using bank exhange rates CDN $58.13 = US $49.75. US Purchasers only have to pay US $35.66 so Canadians have to pay 28% more even at the worst exchange rate?

I'm not up on whatever the current exchange rate is, but I recently bought this remote from a (non-Pioneer) parts supply co. in the U.S. that I believe was mentioned much earlier in this thread. It cost me $45. + shipping. This was about the same price as was listed by Pioneer U.S., if ordered directly from them.

with the current exchange rate, US$45 is about CDN$52 (then add about $10 shipping AND 14% taxes; total is about CDN$70)

Sorry to repost, but is there such a converter that will take composite in and output it to s-video seeing as my sattelite box does not have s-video? If there is, will I see a major difference in quality to make it worth the purchase?
I use a Sima SVS-4 switcher box (may or may not still be on the market), which has dual composite | S-Video Ins & Outs X4. The reason for this was to make use of the lone S-Video In on my tv (which overrides any other inputs, if used), and to provide for more devices than the tv had inputs. I'm not so sure about the conversions, but I do think the picture is clearly superior for those devices that have a continuous S-Video signal path, all the way into the tv. (The Pioneer 520 is one of these.)

After following this thread, and others over on VH, I purchased a 640. This was partly as a hedge / spare / understudy / eventual successor for my 520, and the sale deal being offered at the time just iced it. But, what with a lot of travel and other interruptions, I did not even unpack the box until a month or so after it arrived. Then I thought I really should make sure it was in good working order, so a couple days ago I hooked it up in another room. So far I have only done about 6 recordings on it.

I'm sure I will have many more comments later, but here is what I've noted right away, in no particular order:

1. They've reversed the lights. On the 520, Amber is for HDD, Blue for DVD side in
use.
2. In some cases, sub-menus are required to get to certain functions. (Set Detailed
on Timer Recordings; Title or Erase Section in HDD editing.) I preferred the more
direct access to these on the 520. (Or maybe I'm missing some direct-key
shortcuts ?)
3. The manual seems much condensed, vs. the 520 manual. No Index, either.
4. When I use X2 speed (either direction) for editing in Erase Section, there is a
sideways stutter or shaking of the image. This does not occur on the 520 --
it has a smooth motion, only sped up. (Regular Fwd. or Rev. Playback at X2
does not have this issue on the 640, however.)
5. The 640 takes slightly longer to Power Up than the 520.
6. It is very hard to use with the much older tv in this room, as almost every Control
or Settings screen of the dvdr is fuzzy to the point of near unreadability. The
video of recorded programs looks o.k., though. I'm sure the display would be
a whole lot better with the main tv in the living room. So, for current testing
purposes, I'm mostly dumping stuff off to dvd at this location.

6. It is very hard to use with the much older tv in this room, as almost every Control
or Settings screen of the dvdr is fuzzy to the point of near unreadability. The
video of recorded programs looks o.k., though. I'm sure the display would be
a whole lot better with the main tv in the living room. So, for current testing
purposes, I'm mostly dumping stuff off to dvd at this location.

Yes, I complained about this too. The menus (Control or Settings screens) on the 633 were very clear; the same screens on the 640 are very very hard to read. I was using identical equipment -- simply unplugged the 633 and plguged in the 640 with all the same connectors.

At AC's suggestion I junked the composite video and replaced it with an S-Video cable; no change.

Some people do find the menus readable, but I'm not one of them.

I hardly can read it too. But it sure beats the chugga-chugga sound of the 633.

Yes, I complained about this too. The menus (Control or Settings screens) on the 633 were very clear; the same screens on the 640 are very very hard to read. I was using identical equipment -- simply unplugged the 633 and plguged in the 640 with all the same connectors.

At AC's suggestion I junked the composite video and replaced it with an S-Video cable; no change.

Some people do find the menus readable, but I'm not one of them.I'm curious because of how clear mine is on my component/LCD setup: Do either of you have access to equipment with which you could try component cables? It is just so clear on mine I wonder if that would help...

There is no IR controller on the 640 to change channels on your cable box. There are more alternative ways of doing timer recordings on the 640 but I kind of liked that old option BECAUSE you could set up 32 programs well in advance on the Pio unit and it would automatically change your cable box channel as long as you kept the cable box on (which can be problematic in a household of many). That meant I was not limited by my cable box's pathetic 8 timer recording options.
The 640 timer recorder options (auto record on L1, IR blaster from cable box to 640, standard timer record) all require me to set my cable box timer to ensure the 640 captures the recording and that limits me to setting up a maximum of 8 recordings at any 1 time & I find that restrictive.

The remotes are quite different and some people hate the 640's. I use a harmony universal that I have programmed with the best features of both the 531 & 640 so I get the best of both worlds.

Didiva: (or anybody)
Do you know of a third party IR blaster that can change channels for the 640? My motorola cable box refuses to change the channel more than once.

I just purchased a 633 remote, (Less than $40 from Pioneer), love it, has the "urlee reject" button, :D ( but takes some getting used to because of using of the 640 remote. Especially like to "go directly to record menu" button!

Can you program the Harmony to add 5min chapter divivisions in the chapter edit mode? That would be a time saver!

May be off the subject here, but due to the ability of the 640 to record, I am in need of a system to file, retrieve the movies, ect.. Becomes a chore to find something once recorded. I have entered movies on a database, so finding a title is easy. Where to file them and retrieve them becomes an issue.
CD Cases become out of the question due to space. Especially since I have over 300 to keep up with. Slim jewl cases may be okay?
So can someone out there tell me where to go to find out information or if they have had expericence with a system?

I am in need of a system to file, retrieve the movies, ect.. I use 3-ring binders that hold about 200 discs each. I half-fill each page and keep everything in alphabetical order. It's easy to find things, and adding new titles isn't a problem since half of the spaces are empty. If I get a run of discs with the same title (a TV series, for example) then the 3-ring format makes it easy to insert new pages where needed.

> Do you know of a third party IR blaster that can change channels for the 640?

Wider question: Does anyone know of any HDTV receiver-IR blaster-DVD recorder combination that works? to get the DVD recorder to turn on the HDTV receiver and set the channel before recording begins?

> Do you know of a third party IR blaster that can change channels for the 640?

Wider question: Does anyone know of any HDTV receiver-IR blaster-DVD recorder combination that works? to get the DVD recorder to turn on the HDTV receiver and set the channel before recording begins?

My Toshiba RD XS32 has an IR blaster that works with my Motorola cable box. Don't know if it turns on the cable box, but have used it to change the channel to record. That may not be the answer you were looking for if you are asking about third party equipment. :confused:

I use 3-ring binders that hold about 200 discs each. I half-fill each page and keep everything in alphabetical order. It's easy to find things, and adding new titles isn't a problem since half of the spaces are empty. If I get a run of discs with the same title (a TV series, for example) then the 3-ring format makes it easy to insert new pages where needed.

Thanks, Sean
Sounds better than anything I have considered to date. Now if the book will fit in my console drawer will be a good solution! I could even have a different book for my grandkids to use. (Or whatever category :) )

I'm curious because of how clear mine is on my component/LCD setup: Do either of you have access to equipment with which you could try component cables? It is just so clear on mine I wonder if that would help...
No, I'm afraid that will have to be for the next tv, which is apt to be an lcd type. I can tell you that the living room set (a 10 year old 27" JVC AV-series crt, connected via S-Video to the Pioneer 520), is plenty clear for those menu screens. Could they have backslid that badly, from the 2004 model to the 2006 model ? Somehow, I tend to doubt it. I would be inclined to think that S-Video would make a real difference, except that the tv in the room with the 640 is almost 10 years older than the JVC set (!), and as such is probably way past any help at this point. I keep it because it still works reasonably well, I don't like tossing something that still works, and I'm not out looking for places to blow $500. unnecessarily, if you know what I mean.

Didiva: (or anybody)
Do you know of a third party IR blaster that can change channels for the 640? My motorola cable box refuses to change the channel more than once.

I just purchased a 633 remote, (Less than $40 from Pioneer), love it, has the "urlee reject" button, :D ( but takes some getting used to because of using of the 640 remote. Especially like to "go directly to record menu" button!

Can you program the Harmony to add 5min chapter divivisions in the chapter edit mode? That would be a time saver!

I am sorry that I do not know of a 3rd party IR blaster that would be of use.

I use the commercial skip button (press it 6 times in a row quickly) to insert 5 min chapter marks. I think you could probably program the harmony to do that with one touch of a customized button as an advanced set up option button, but I haven't tried it because I find that sequentially pressing the commercial skip button an easy way to insert chapter marks (press it 7 times in a row if you want
10 min chapter marks).

One big difference that you may notice between the 633 remote and the 640 remote is that the 633 uses separate buttons to slowly advance (and rewind) frames by 1/2 second increments whereas the 640 uses the FF and REW buttons in combination with the Pause button being pressed. I prefer the latter option.

May be off the subject here, but due to the ability of the 640 to record, I am in need of a system to file, retrieve the movies, ect.. Becomes a chore to find something once recorded. I have entered movies on a database, so finding a title is easy. Where to file them and retrieve them becomes an issue.
CD Cases become out of the question due to space. Especially since I have over 300 to keep up with. Slim jewl cases may be okay?
So can someone out there tell me where to go to find out information or if they have had expericence with a system?

I used to use binders also but I like things in alphabetical order & I hate shifting discs out of the pockets & I find that the binder rings would lose their tight connections and the pages would slip out. I use paper CD sleeves and file the discs in plastic bins called UNITZ here is a link (http://www.staples.ca/ENG/Catalog/cat_sku.asp?CatIds=&webid=642772&affixedcode=WW) that I bought at Staples. Very compact and easy to keep orderly.

(AC suggested component video connection)

I can tell you that the living room set (a 10 year old 27" JVC AV-series crt, connected via S-Video to the Pioneer 520), is plenty clear for those menu screens. Could they have backslid that badly, from the 2004 model to the 2006 model ? Somehow, I tend to doubt it. I would be inclined to think that S-Video would make a real difference, except that...

I have to say that they *did* backslide. Once again, I have the exact same setup for the 640 that I did for the 633, since the 640 replaced the 633. The text on the 633's options and setup screens was very clear; the text on the 640's screens is difficult to impossible to read.

Actually, I don't have the *exact* same setup. I did to start with, but as was suggested here, I changed the composite video connection to S-video. There was no improveent in the menu screens.

Fortunately, actual programs are quite clear.

I just purchased a 633 remote, (Less than $40 from Pioneer), love it, has the "urlee reject" button, :D

I caught that Mr bphouston! :o and :D
You are lucky you are there and I am here. :p

Urlee

I use 3-ring binders that hold about 200 discs each.

How are those as far as harming the discs?
If touching the plastic, chemical reaction?
Do the discs rub or stick?

I heard paper sleeves are no good to keep discs in. I know for a fact, mine showed scratches from pulling in and out.
(just looked this up to varify)"Quote" Paper sleeves tend to scratch discs and allow dust to get into them .
I put some of Sony D21 MIJ in paper sleeves and they scanned horribly after few days , I thought they were degrading , but after inspection I found that paper sleeves did that to the discs . Also happened with Verbatim MCC 004
I then started to store discs in slim or jewel cases and no degradation in scans whatsoever .

I use the plastic jewel cases and label the ends and stick them in a Fellowes stackable storage container that holds 36 each (or double thin cases), that has a separate slot for each case.
Course, with a tremendous amount of DVD's, you'd end up lining the wall with them. :)

Urlee

Jewel cases are ideal because they are designed so that nothing touches the disc's data surface. But they're pretty bulky compared to binders and sort of beg for some sort of purpose-designed shelving or containers.

I've been using binders for about 3 years now and I haven't had any problems with them. The data side of the DVD goes "down" in the binder and there's a sort of soft mat there which is in contact with that surface. I check each DVD visually when I pull it out for scanning and none of them have shown any sign of scratching that these old eyes can see. And the scans I've been doing for the past year seem to bear out the fact that the discs aren't being damaged.

I also have several dozen software CDs that have been stored vertically in paper sleeves for something like 6 years or more, and they're doing fine too. They don't get handled as much as the DVDs I'm constantly scanning, but still I don't see any evidence that the sleeves are doing them any harm.

I think the most important thing is to be careful when handling the discs. It's tempting to treat them like they're indestructable, but that's what leads to problems. I'm always very careful not to touch the data surface and to have a good grip on them so they don't drop. And when I insert or remove them from the binder pockets I try to exert an upward pressure so that the data surface isn't "scraping" on the inside surface of the pocket. It helps that I always buy binders with plastic pockets that let me put my finger in the centre hole and then slide the disk out without having to remove my finger.

I use the commercial skip button (press it 6 times in a row quickly) to insert 5 min chapter marks. I think you could probably program the harmony to do that with one touch of a customized button as an advanced set up option button, but I haven't tried it because I find that sequentially pressing the commercial skip button an easy way to insert chapter marks (press it 7 times in a row if you want
10 min chapter marks).

One big difference that you may notice between the 633 remote and the 640 remote is that the 633 uses separate buttons to slowly advance (and rewind) frames by 1/2 second increments whereas the 640 uses the FF and REW buttons in combination with the Pause button being pressed. I prefer the latter option.

I also use the commercial skip to add chapter marks, but prefer the 5 min (6 times on the button), but being un-coordinated I sometimes add 3 min or have to go around again to get the setting. a one push button would be timesaver. that would save about 120 keystrokes per movie, not counting miscues. ( could I wear out the button?)

I also like the REW button, instead of (on 640) play, then REW. However, the button arrangement on the 633 seems a little awkward. (IMHO) Maybe just not used to using it.

Seems like I recall Levitron having a remote IR changing system for home distribution systems. Will report if I find something interesting.

I think the most important thing is to be careful when handling the discs.

I agree. I use paper sleeves (because they take up the minimum amount of space and you can write on them,) and have yet to see any problems like scratching, but maybe that's because I'm careful too.

As with (I think) most paper sleeves, mine have a fold-over cover to keep dust out, and if you hold the sleeve by the edges when you pop open the cover the sleeve fans out so none of the recording surface touches the sleeve when you slide the DVD out. I doubt the designers of the sleeves thought about it in advance, but it works very well.

Hey all, here I go beating a dead horse again...

Has anyone solved the mystery of why some Divx movies play and some will not? For the most part, all the divx movies that I have tried to play work fine, but some (about 10-20%) will not play. All I get is a black screen and the audio plays fine.

The only guess I have is some sort of copy protection bug/flag.

Anyone else have these problems?

RF

I had a strange thing happen with my 640. I turned it on, and hit the disc navigator button. Nothing came up, so I hit it again. Still nothing, so I hit it a third time, and got a message "hard drive restored," or something similar. I hit the button the fourth time, and the usual list came up, with no apparent problems. I had about 30 titles in the HDD, with it about half full. I have noticed no irregularities since. Anyone experience this? Any idea what caused it? I don't want to place the contents of the HDD at risk!

On another note, I recently noticed something I hadn't read in the manual, or seen posted here. Probably others have noticed, but in case some haven't...
When you are watching a program from the HDD, and stop it, to watch the tuned channel, or line input, you can return to the HDD program you were watching by simply pushing "Play," no need to hit "Disc Navigator" again. Doesn't work if you are recording to the HDD at that time.

Hi,

Just wanted to know if the Pio 640 can transfer a dvd full of MP3's into the Jukebox section...I know it can transfer MP3's from a usb drive into the Pio 640 and keep all the albums and songs in the exact folder structure you had them on the usb drive...is it the same type of transfer using a dvd with MP3's on it...

i recently got this logitech z5450 surround sound system and connected my dvr thru coaxial to the reciever of this system.

http://reviews.cnet.com/Logitech_Z_5450_Digital_5_1/4507-3179_7-31517017.html?tag=sub

questions...on the audio out setting on my dvr 640...what should i have?:

digital out: on OR off
dolby digital out: dolby digital -> PCM OR dolby digital
dts out: on OR off
96kHz PCM Out: 96kHz -> 48kHz OR 96kHz
MPEG Out: MPEG OR MPEG -> PCM
Audio DRC: on OR off

please let me know what settings i should have? thx in advance.

Just wanted to know if the Pio 640 can transfer a dvd full of MP3's into the Jukebox section...I know it can transfer MP3's from a usb drive into the Pio 640 and keep all the albums and songs in the exact folder structure you had them on the usb drive...is it the same type of transfer using a dvd with MP3's on it...
Not sure about music on a DVD. I know it will copy music on a CD in real time w/o album/track names.

For sure, the DVD should NOT be finalized...that would force you to use One-Touch Copy, which only puts it on the HDD, not the Jukebox. That's the way it should react for a Finalized DVD, but not what you want for music CD and Jukebox.

You can try and, if it allows you to Copy using the Copy > CD/DVD to HDD, you should be OK.

As you said, USB offers the advantage of a high-speed copy with album/track names.

I hit it a third time, and got a message "hard drive restored," or something similar.Interesting. This is just speculation, but it may be that the machine lost power or had a glitch during a time when it was making a change to the file structure. This could have left the file structure inconsistent and needing repair. Robust software updates the disk in a "failsafe" manner so that it can always get itself out of situations like this, and the message you quoted sounds like the sort of thing you might see if that happened.

Again, pure speculation, but if true it speaks well of the Pioneer firmware.

Has anyone solved the mystery of why some Divx movies play and some will not? For the most part, all the divx movies that I have tried to play work fine, but some (about 10-20%) will not play. All I get is a black screen and the audio plays fine.

The only guess I have is some sort of copy protection bug/flag.
Many people have asked this same question, but I haven't seen a definitive answer yet.

The best thing to do is check pp 12/13 of the manual for things that might fit your situation. The manual says (basically):

1. Must be on a CD.

2. AVI files are recognized as MPEG4 but not all AVI files are DivX and may not be playable.

3. DivX VOD (Video on Demand) must be registered and has a limited number of plays, which the 640/disc keeps track of...the important point in this is, some people may have DivX files from VOD sources (e.g., rentals) who have used up all the plays but you might not know that???

Hi all,

I am the recent proud owner of this amazing DVR unit and loving it. I have a quick question on the chapters : I tried some one touch HDD recording of a movie from one of the channels. But it seems the DVR did not put any chapters on the recording. I have all the default settings and recorded in SP mode. When does it put the chapters, the default says after every 10 minutes it will create a chapter?

TIA

i recently got this logitech z5450 surround sound system and connected my dvr thru coaxial to the reciever of this system.

http://reviews.cnet.com/Logitech_Z_5450_Digital_5_1/4507-3179_7-31517017.html?tag=sub

questions...on the audio out setting on my dvr 640...what should i have?:

digital out: on OR off
dolby digital out: dolby digital -> PCM OR dolby digital
dts out: on OR off
96kHz PCM Out: 96kHz -> 48kHz OR 96kHz
MPEG Out: MPEG OR MPEG -> PCM
Audio DRC: on OR off

please let me know what settings i should have? thx in advance.

any1 ^^^^??? im more concerned about the 96kHz PCM out setting..can any1 let me know please?

Hi all,

I am the recent proud owner of this amazing DVR unit and loving it. I have a quick question on the chapters : I tried some one touch HDD recording of a movie from one of the channels. But it seems the DVR did not put any chapters on the recording. I have all the default settings and recorded in SP mode. When does it put the chapters, the default says after every 10 minutes it will create a chapter?

TIA
Auto-chaptering is only done on DVDs and only when they are copied/recorded in real time using Video-mode (the default setting).

For chapters you want in a HS-copied DVD or on the HDD itself, you need to set them manually in the title on the HDD.

questions...on the audio out setting on my dvr 640...what should i have?:

digital out: on OR off
dolby digital out: dolby digital -> PCM OR dolby digital
dts out: on OR off
96kHz PCM Out: 96kHz -> 48kHz OR 96kHz
MPEG Out: MPEG OR MPEG -> PCM
Audio DRC: on OR off
Try these, all the normal defaults except one:

digital out: on (that's the default)
dolby digital out: dolby digital (the default)
dts out: on (the default)
96kHz PCM Out: 96kHz (this is the only non-default setting since your receiver supports 96kHz sampling)
MPEG Out: MPEG -> PCM (the default, and no MPEG decoder in your receiver)
Audio DRC: off (the default)

Hey guys, have any of you tried the Pioneer 640 with a Harmony 880 Advanced Universal Remote?

Would love to hear how it performs, what features it does and doesn't do, as well as how it stacks up to the previous Pioneer version remotes some have recommended.

Thanks! :)

Interesting. This is just speculation, but it may be that the machine lost power or had a glitch during a time when it was making a change to the file structure. This could have left the file structure inconsistent and needing repair. Robust software updates the disk in a "failsafe" manner so that it can always get itself out of situations like this, and the message you quoted sounds like the sort of thing you might see if that happened.

Again, pure speculation, but if true it speaks well of the Pioneer firmware.

Sean, I hadn't had any power interuptions, or I would have had to reset some of my equipment. I don't have fancy line condtioners. I do have a two-stage surge supressor, that I got at a professional electronics supply company, better than K-Mart ones anyway. I have the Comcast Cable hooked directly to the 640, no surge supressor there. Perhaps some kind of ambient signal/surge? Well, it hasn't happened again, and I've had no problems, so I guess I won't worry about it.

Try these, all the normal defaults except one:

digital out: on (that's the default)
dolby digital out: dolby digital (the default)
dts out: on (the default)
96kHz PCM Out: 96kHz (this is the only non-default setting since your receiver supports 96kHz sampling)
MPEG Out: MPEG -> PCM (the default, and no MPEG decoder in your receiver)
Audio DRC: off (the default)

what is audio DRC btw...and y would u recommend being off?

also i have my ps3 connected to this z5450 thru optical. for optical setting...should i choose PCM or bitstream?

thx in advance.

My ancient Panasonic E80H refuses to die. After many hours of reading about the Pioneer 640, I’ve decided with some sadness to retire my old but reliable friend.

The latest price drop at Amazon for the 640 was the shove I needed. So much for sentiment, the 640 is on the way.

I have a special use for this DVR that involves DVD-RAM and though I have not noted any reference to 640 DVD-RAM usage, I’ll ask the questions anyway.

What speed rating and capacity DVD-RAM disks does the 640 support?
Can you record directly to DVD-RAM with the same quality choices HDD recording offers?
Is the file format VRO?
Can you high speed dub from the HDD to DVD-RAM?
Can you edit the DVD-RAM recordings directly?
Do multiple recordings to the DVD-RAM merge together or are they maintained as separate files?

Thanks

Perhaps some kind of ambient signal/surge? Well, it hasn't happened again, and I've had no problems, so I guess I won't worry about it.These days "glitch" is as likely to be software as hardware, so unless it keeps happening it's probably best not to loose any sleep over it.

Sean, I hadn't had any power interuptions, or I would have had to reset some of my equipment. I don't have fancy line condtioners. I do have a two-stage surge supressor, that I got at a professional electronics supply company, better than K-Mart ones anyway. I have the Comcast Cable hooked directly to the 640, no surge supressor there. Perhaps some kind of ambient signal/surge? Well, it hasn't happened again, and I've had no problems, so I guess I won't worry about it.
Just my opinion here, but I happen to think any electronics gear that is valuable or that you really care about deserves good quality protection -- maybe something more heavy duty than this ? I have both the power source and the signal sources protected, in both rooms that have good equipment. The line protection stuff was among the best I could find at the time, and was not inexpensive. We rarely see real thunderstorms here, but we do get power cutting out and coming back at least a few times a year. I even know someone who also likes to record a lot of movies off of cable, but the power where he lives is much more problemmatical, so he has a hefty UPS in his video chain to cover that. I think that would be overkill here. I'd do it if I really needed to, but where to find room for another sizable piece of gear would be more of a deterrent than the cost.

What speed rating and capacity DVD-RAM disks does the 640 support?
Can you record directly to DVD-RAM with the same quality choices HDD recording offers?
Is the file format VRO?
Can you high speed dub from the HDD to DVD-RAM?
Can you edit the DVD-RAM recordings directly?
Do multiple recordings to the DVD-RAM merge together or are they maintained as separate files?
I can't go flipping through the manual right now, and it has no index (the downloadable .PDF version has probably been linked here though . . . ), but I strongly suspect this is going to be a Playback capability only. (If I'm wrong, that would be one more bonus feature for this model.) Later Pioneer burner models for your computer, however, such as the 111D, can be firmware flashed to enable the DVD-RAM burning capability. This opens the door to your getting content onto DVD-RAM that way, and from there into the 640.

Incidentally, based on a lead from AC Pewty, I have purchased Cyberlink Power Producer, though I have not had time to install or test it yet. It is supposed to have a feature they call "editable DVD", which I think is going to turn out to be be a burnable .VR or .VRO format. That would make it (hopefully) like the VR mode recording option of the Pioneer 5xx / 6xx units. Whenever I get that far, I'll report back if it works. I'd like to have that as an option, because in many cases I'd rather edit something on the Pioneer that was not originally recorded on or to the Pioneer, rather than have to do it using various software on the computer. And this method -- or DVD-RAM -- is going to be the only way to do a high-speed bit-copy of that material into the DVDR.

I haven't used DVD-RAM discs yet, but according to the manual:
What speed rating and capacity DVD-RAM disks does the 640 support?DVD-RAM ver. 2.0 / 2 x, ver. 2.1 / 2 x / 2 x to 3 x / 2 x to 5 x, ver. 2.2 / 2 x / 2 x to 3 x / 2 x to 5 x (The manual says only Maxell and Matsushita media have been tested.)

Can you record directly to DVD-RAM with the same quality choices HDD recording offers?Yes, including copy-once material.

Is the file format VRO?Yes, should be since RAM is VR mode. (Not stated in manual.)

Can you high speed dub from the HDD to DVD-RAM?Yes.

Can you edit the DVD-RAM recordings directly?Yes, with all the same editing functionality as you have when editing on the HDD.

Do multiple recordings to the DVD-RAM merge together or are they maintained as separate files?Separate Files. If you want to merge you would have to do so using the combine feature when copying to/from the HDD. (The manual doesn't specify, but it makes sense it would act like any other rewritable disc.)

FYI the manual also says that it may take up to an hour to initialize a DVD-RAM disc.

Also, use caution when recording to RAM at slower recording speeds (MN9-MN15) if you intend to copy to a video mode disc later because VR mode recordings at those speeds use non-standard resolutions which are not compatible with video mode, which would force you to re-encode...no high-speed copy.

Auto-chaptering is only done on DVDs and only when they are copied/recorded in real time using Video-mode (the default setting).

For chapters you want in a HS-copied DVD or on the HDD itself, you need to set them manually in the title on the HDD.

Thanks for the reply wabjxo. I will give it a try on the HDD.

Thank you all for the info on DVD-RAM. I'll download the manual and start preparing for my new toy.

For a long time one of my wishlist features for a standalone HDD DVR has been networking.

I got a bit excited in reviewing the Pio 640 and noting it has active USB ports. Hmmm...maybe a future firmware update will allow USB to ethernet?

Well I encountered my first problem with this recorder. I'm hoping one of you guys can help me with it.
Last night I went to edit a recording "erase section" and after marking the area that I wanted to erase when I pressed enter to erase it I got a message at the bottom of the screen that said "No more space for file management data." And nothing happens it won't erase. And I have over 20 hours of XP quality space left on the unit.
Has this happened to anyone before? Does anyone know why this has happened? And what to do about it?

Well I encountered my first problem with this recorder. I'm hoping one of you guys can help me with it.
Last night I went to edit a recording "erase section" and after marking the area that I wanted to erase when I pressed enter to erase it I got a message at the bottom of the screen that said "No more space for file management data." And nothing happens it won't erase. And I have over 20 hours of XP quality space left on the unit.
Has this happened to anyone before? Does anyone know why this has happened? And what to do about it?I haven't heard of that before, but: How many edits did you do to that title? I'm wondering if you have used up all the pointer space with too many edits. Assuming this is all HDD stuff, I would try removing some titles from the HDD, especially heavily edited ones. (If you want them back on the HDD later, copy them to a VR mode DVD so you can high-speed copy back to HDD.)

Probably not the problem, but how many titles do you have on the HDD? I think the limits are 999 on HDD, 99 on DVD-R/RW/RAM and 49 on +R/RW.

I got a message at the bottom of the screen that said "No more space for file management data." And nothing happens it won't erase. And I have over 20 hours of XP quality space left on the unit. Has this happened to anyone before? Does anyone know why this has happened? And what to do about it?I haven't seen anything like this, but it sounds like you've reached some limitation in the HDD's file system about the number of file segments. If this happened to me I'd dump everything off the hard disk (if you write it to VR-mode DVD-RW you can high-speed copy it back to the HDD later) and format it (if there's a way to do that).

I got a bit excited in reviewing the Pio 640 and noting it has active USB ports. Hmmm...maybe a future firmware update will allow USB to ethernet?Don't expect any firmware upgrades. By the time any new model of DVD recorder hits the shelves the engineers are well into working on next year's units. The only time you'll see firmware upgrades is if there's some fairly significant problem with functionality that needs to be fixed. You'll never see a firmware upgrade that adds some function that they didn't originally claim the unit would do.

In the case of the 2005 Pioneers, they didn't even issue a firmware upgrade to fix the well-known and very significant TVGOS problems, instead they offered 2006 replacement models.

For those still making a buying decision, here's a comprehensive Nov 06 review of the 640. (http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/pioneer-dvr-640hs-dvd-recorder-923.shtml)

The article even discusses my theory that the 640 was supposed to have a TVGOS, but it got deleted at the last minute. That would explain why the timer program title doesn't transfer to the recording...the TVGOS was supposed to provide the title, like in the 2005 models.

So no one actually picked up a Harmony 880 and tested it out with the Pioneer? :)

So no one actually picked up a Harmony 880 and tested it out with the Pioneer? :)

Is THIS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8000746&&#post8000746) what you are looking for?
Scroll and read.

Urlee

[QUOTE=kjbawc]I had a strange thing happen with my 640. I turned it on, and hit the disc navigator button. Nothing came up, so I hit it again. Still nothing, so I hit it a third time, and got a message "hard drive restored," or something similar. I hit the button the fourth time, and the usual list came up, with no apparent problems. I had about 30 titles in the HDD, with it about half full. I have noticed no irregularities since. Anyone experience this? Any idea what caused it? I don't want to place the contents of the HDD at risk!

I also had this happen once, don't remember the details of having to push any more buttons after the message, but it was just after turning the 640 on. Also no apparent after effects. :confused:

On a different occasion recently, I noticed a weird noise from the DVD drive when copying from the HDD ( like a whirring bad bearing noise) and got the message that can not complete copy ( or similar to that). Happened one more that session and got another coaster. first time ever for Sony DVD-R disks out of about 150. This is my first machine manufactured coaster, the others may be from other operator errors. Note that these two events are NOT related.

I still want to know from the Harmony owners if chapter divide for 5 min is possible for programing. This would really simplify things since I have about 3-4 controllers for each TV, I still have to show-tell my wife how to play her DVD's and recorded programs.

Merry Chistmas to everybody (or whatever your celebration- hope you had one) For once they listened to me and gave me DVD storage binders :D Thanks Sean

hi there, i hooked up my Pioneer DVR543HS and so far its great. i have a couple of questions:

1. where in the manual does it talk about pausing and rewinding live tv? i'm pretty sure it does that but it doesn't say anywhere. while recording a show, if i press the rewind button nothing happens. if i press the pause button, the recording just pauses.

2. is there a way so that when you turn on the DVR, it's default channel is L1 instead of what you had it the last time you were using it?

3. when you are in chase play, lets say 15 minutes behind and you want to instantly catch up to the recording, what do you press instead of fastforwarding?

hi there, i hooked up my Pioneer DVR543HS and so far its great. i have a couple of questions:

1. where in the manual does it talk about pausing and rewinding live tv? i'm pretty sure it does that but it doesn't say anywhere. while recording a show, if i press the rewind button nothing happens. if i press the pause button, the recording just pauses.

2. is there a way so that when you turn on the DVR, it's default channel is L1 instead of what you had it the last time you were using it?

3. when you are in chase play, lets say 15 minutes behind and you want to instantly catch up to the recording, what do you press instead of fastforwarding?Patience. I have answered your questions here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9287579&&#post9287579) where you already posted them in their own thread.

Does the 640 play movie DVD's? Do you have to set the region first?
Ed

how much "better" is the 640HS vs the Phillips dvr3455H? I recently bought the dvr3455h, but according to this forum, the 640hs is highly regarded.

What advantages does the 640HS have over the dvr3455H that warrants a reconsideration on my purchase? (e.g. user interface? ease of use?, recording features?, playback?)

Mind you, I know a few things already about the 640HS, I just want to know how it compares to Phillips dvr345h. Thanks.

I got mine today and ahvent tried it yet. I owned a 510, so I assume I will be familiar with a lot of things.

What I want to know is the following: As popular as Pioneer's dvd recorder models are with us on this site (and it hasn't only been recent, it was claimed the best brand by many back wehn I got my last one, and obviously I must agree because I am turning to them again) whyyyyyy then does Pioneer sell it almost nowhere? No big name department stores sell this at all and not even many online sites!

Does the 640 play movie DVD's? Do you have to set the region first?
Ed

Yes, it plays commercial DVDs.

However, the consensus here is that it's best to have a standalone player because any laser (including the 640's) has a limited lifetime. You want to get as much recording out of it as you can, and not "waste" some of its useful life on playing when separate players are so cheap.

It's also useful to have a standalone player just to check any disc you've recorded.

ACPewty, you might add this to your list:

This morning I made a HDD->DVD copy. Selecting my play list, I noticed that the titles were in alphabetical order. Apparently the 640 remembers the specified sort order, where the 633 always reverted to date-of-recording order in the panel that selects titles for copying to DVD.

(I'm talking about the order of titles in the list were you select titles to copy to DVD, *not* the order in the Disc Navigator screen. That order is preserved by the 640 but was also preserved by the 633.)

Can anyone recommend a video stabilizer to use with my Pio640...main use is for DVD copies...any Canadian sources selling these...

Hello, everyone (first post).

I was hoping to get some input on my situation. I have been researching recorders and finally settled on the Pioneer 640.

A local electronics store is having an After-Christmas Sale. They have the 640 for $315.

Is that a good price ?

Also, they are offering a 5-year service contract (repair/replacement with similar model) for $60. Is that a good deal ? (I am worried about the average life-time of a hard-drive on these recorders. If it is similar to the hard-drives on PCs that I have owned, I am thinking that this service contract may be a bargain.)

Any feedback on these questions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
3-Putt

$328 is the lowest online price right now, which includes shipping, but there is no local tax., so that would be your delivered price.

$315 from a local store looks very good, and maybe the $60 5-yr maint. contract would serve you well, at least for a comparable replacement later, which would have a digital tuner for OTA reception of digital/HD transmissions.

Just make sure the store is an "Authorized Pioneer Dealer/Seller." Use the "Find a Store" search here. (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/dealer/locator/0,,2076_310069583,00.html)

If so, I'd go for it!

What I want to know is the following: As popular as Pioneer's dvd recorder models are with us on this site whyyyyyy then does Pioneer sell it almost nowhere? No big name department stores sell this at all and not even many online sites!
Possibly the main brick & mortar chain that carried them was Good Guys, which went out of business earlier this year. Some WalMarts were said to have carried a couple of Pioneer's non-HDD models . . . but I never personally saw any WalMart location that did, and that covers a few cities. One thing to remember is that the Pioneer HDD models, such as the 520 and the 640, were not only among the best available but also among the most expensive. You could buy almost 3 of the competing Lite-On HDD recorders for what a single 520 or 640 sold for, by way of example. I don't know what kind of distribution clout Pioneer has these days (outside of their flat panel displays), but anyone familiar with their products -- such as the Elite line of receivers -- will also note that low to mid-end shops just never carried such merchandise. They don't really do much in the way of "commodity" items. The closest you find to that is their burners for computers, which are quite good, but also inexpensive. Finally, the fact that they (along with other manufacturers) appear to be abandoning the whole DVD recorder segment, might have something to do with what you have observed.

Can anyone recommend a video stabilizer to use with my Pio640...main use is for DVD copies...any Canadian sources selling these...
You are probably better off doing your DVD backups on the computer. That said, I think you would need something more heavy-duty than a stabilizer, in order to do what you are suggesting. Most often mentioned for this purpose are full-frame TBCs (time base correctors), such as the AVT-8710 or the DataVideo 1000 -- both around $300. USD. (I don't know what the Canadian sources for these would be.) These are particularly useful for copying from tape formats like VHS. With DVDs, you will likewise have issues with MacroVision and other no-copy protections, which I think the TBCs address. There is another device I've seen mentioned, but I don't have personal knowledge of it, and don't know if it could be linked here. The one I have tried is the Sima CT-200, the model above their CT-2. It is touted as being able to overcome copyguards (but I've only used it with tape sources, so far), though I found it to be unsatisfactory in resolving video sync problems, which the TBCs should handle effectively.

Hello, everyone (first post).

I was hoping to get some input on my situation. I have been researching recorders and finally settled on the Pioneer 640. A local electronics store is having an After-Christmas Sale. They have the 640 for $315. Is that a good price ?

3-Putt,

Yes, that's an excellent price. Many of us paid somewhere in the $320-$340 range from online retailers.

Before making any major purchase, check it out on a price-compairson site like froogle dot google dot com. That will give you an idea of the going rates.

As for service contracts, I routinely turn them down. Almost without exception, they represent a huge profit for the retailer. If it was a good deal for the consumer, it wouldn't be offered, or would be offered at a higher price.

The way to evaluate these is (dollar value of the covered repairs) times (probability that the repairs will be needed). For example, if you pay $315 for the unit, and there's a 10% chance it will need replacement during the period of the service contract, you should not pay more than 10% of $315, which is $31.50. (Even this is an overestimate. Prices are declining, and it will cost you less than $315 a year from now to replace a Pioneer 640 with an equivalent unit.)

Obviously the probability involves some speculation, so you can work it backward. The $60 cost you mention is a little over 19% of the $315 purchase price (because $60 over $315 times 100 is 19.05). 19% is almost 20%, one chance in five. Do you really think there's a one in five chance of the hard disk failing or other catastrophic failure *after* the warranty period but *during* the extended-warranty period?

It's quite possible that your credit-card already doubles the manufacturer's warranty, at no cost to you. This is a feature of MasterCard and Visa from many banks -- you might want to check with customer service.

Stan

Hello, everyone (first post).
A local electronics store is having an After-Christmas Sale. They have the 640 for $315.
Is that a good price ? Thanks, 3-Putt

The one I bought June 29th, 06 cost me $434.94 from Pioneer.
The one I bought December 04, 06 cost me $327.00 from BeachCamera.

Thanks Seeker47...yes...I totally forgot about using the computer...that sounds like a plan...don;t want to spend alot on more hardware...

Possibly the main brick & mortar chain that carried them was Good Guys, which went out of business earlier this year. Some WalMarts were said to have carried a couple of Pioneer's non-HDD models . . . but I never personally saw any WalMart location that did, and that covers a few cities...

Good Guys was West Coast only and was owned by CompUSA. I ordered my 520s through them becuase it would have been more expensive getting them from Tweeter, Etc [the one I called outside of Boston had them].

Super WalMarts carried the 2005 Pioneer 531, an 80GB HD model.

Hello can you record a DVD to the hard drive with this. Thanks :)

Hello can you record a DVD to the hard drive with this. Thanks :)
There are several ways to copy NON-copy-protected DVDs to the HDD:

1. One Touch Copy - start the DVD playing and press the One Touch Copy button under the sliding door. You can start this copy anywhere in the DVD content...it starts the copy from the beginning of the DVD.

2. Use the Copy menu.

can I do the one-touch copy even on DVD encoded with 5.1 sound? (I've created some wedding videos with 5.1, 16:9 Anamorphic flag).

Good Guys was West Coast only and was owned by CompUSA. I ordered my 520s through them becuase it would have been more expensive getting them from Tweeter, Etc [the one I called outside of Boston had them].

Super WalMarts carried the 2005 Pioneer 531, an 80GB HD model.
Good Guys was not originally owned by CompUSA. The Good Guys stores started closing about the time they were bought out by CompUSA and within about a year, all of the Washington/Oregon Good Guys stores were closed.

This provided an opportunity for me to buy the Pioneer 520H for just over $200, new in the box. I consider it money well spent.

can I do the one-touch copy even on DVD encoded with 5.1 sound? (I've created some wedding videos with 5.1, 16:9 Anamorphic flag).
Only DD 2.0 or LPCM.

thank you.

David, I should have said it will record the DVD, but the 5.1 audio will be in DD 2.0 or, if you change to LPCM (1-hr) rec. mode, in LPCM.

... The Good Guys stores started closing about the time they were bought out by CompUSA and within about a year, all of the Washington/Oregon Good Guys stores were closed.

This provided an opportunity for me to buy the Pioneer 520H for just over $200, new in the box. I consider it money well spent.

Wow!?! I would have bought one for every room in the house had I had the opportunity to get some for $200.

I have 520s and one 640, which people here love. I personally prefer my 520s because the 640 lacks the chapter mark key on the remote. If Pioneer adds this feature back on their 2007 model, I'll give my 640 to a relative and get the new model.

Wow!?! I would have bought one for every room in the house had I had the opportunity to get some for $200.

I have 520s and one 640, which people here love. I personally prefer my 520s because the 640 lacks the chapter mark key on the remote. If Pioneer adds this feature back on their 2007 model, I'll give my 640 to a relative and get the new model.
I am with you on the chapter mark button on the 520 remote.

Much of what I record is music concerts, some from PBS and HDNet without commercials, and some from other sources with commercials. In the "Play" mode, I skim through the recording to identify beginnings and ends of commercials and place chapter marks there. I also scan to the beginning of each song or longer dialog and set chapter marks there. Then I go in the "Delete Chapters" mode to delete the chapters containing commercials along with trimming the beginning and end of the program. At this point I am ready to burn user-friendly DVD-Rs.

Take away my chapter button on the remote and you might as well take away the whole machine. I don't understand what anyone at Pioneer was thinking when they removed that button.

Re: Chapter mark button

I noticed when I added the 640 to my Harmony remote setup I have the option to assign a chapter mark button... dumb question, how do I check if it works? Is it as obvious as it sounds, does it cause chapter splits in the title?

I'm willing to test it if interested but want to make sure I'm testing it correctly.

Re: Chapter mark button

I noticed when I added the 640 to my Harmony remote setup I have the option to assign a chapter mark button... dumb question, how do I check if it works? Is it as obvious as it sounds, does it cause chapter splits in the title?

I'm willing to test it if interested but want to make sure I'm testing it correctly.

Yes, it's as obvious as it sounds: While watching something recorded, just push the chapter mark button. If it works, there will be a briefly displayed message on the screen (right, bottom) that a chapter mark has been added.

I tried using one of my 520H remotes without success. If your Harmony remote works, you can let us know it's model number so I (and others) can order it.

There are some things I record in the middle of the night that have commercials I either want to eventually edit out or merely place a chapter mark at the beginning and end of each commercial. It is nice to be able to watch something, pause, place a chapter mark exactly where I want via the remote, resume watching the program, then quickly delete the sections when done (I use delete section rather than delete chapter). It's an additional step on the 640H because watching the program either through the edit screen for deleting a section or adding/deleting chapters is unacceptable--the picture is too small to enjoy.

Depending on how long a program is that I want to edit then save to DVD, I have been known to record to DVD-RW on the 640H then watch it on the 520H so I can add chapter marks via the remote. This adds an additional step (high speed back to the HD), but I do prefer adding chapter marks this way. Most times the chapter marks are merely for commercials. At times, the chapter marks are for the beginning/end of a program (marathons where I want to separate episodes).

BTW, I did drop Pioneer a note asking them to please consider putting this feature back on their 2007 or 2008 recorder. If others contact them, too, maybe someone will listen.

OK, I tried it and it does absolutely nothing. Just more junk in the harmony device database.

Before I gave this model to my daughter, I had to learn about DVR/PVR.
I read the entire threaded message at this fine, fine, fine thread Pioneer DVR 640h-S User Reports many times. I read the online manual, also.
On The Thanksgiving Day After, I bought the model from a local national chain store for $299.00 excluding taxes and including the store's 12 months of both labor and parts under carry-in. (salesperson said it was the last one.)
Finally, The Christmas Day arrived, my entire family were surprised to see this DVR. I told my exciting daughter that this model does not keep her awake at nights in college dormitory room (shoebox room layout). Also told her that she has to use NSTC (4:3); not a wide since she has the television kind (NTSC) and the VHS unit.
She reads the manual and operates the computerized machine without my help. She majors in nursing. She showed off the model on the same day. The family gang said "aah! ooh! wow! Amazing!"
Programs from hard drive have closed captioning appearing on the TV screen that conviced me to go out to buy another one however I do not find one locally. Now I have to wait for Pioneer Technologies to ship out some more units.

I want to thank the AVS Special Members, AVS Ed Members, and Members for their efforts to provide finding-facts on this model. It would be nice to see Pioneer Technologies to join this AVS Forum Alliance Membership.

$299 is a very good price for the 640. Where did you puchase it?

Last night while reading threads via a search I spotted an old (September-ish 2006) posting in a morobund thread where someone off-handedly mentioned that Pioneer had announced it was no longer going to engage in DVD recorder research and development. My read of this comment is that the current model, 640H, will be Pioneer's last.

Although the Consumer Electronics Show is in Las Vegas next week, at which time Pioneer (and everyone else) will be tooting their electronic models, I am hoping someone here read the mentioned Pioneer announcement and/or possibly saved the news item.

**Totally** OT for this thread and forum, there is an interesting article in today's WSJ titled, "New DVD Players Resolve Battle of Formats." I do not guarantee the following link will work, but it is a copy/paste of the link one can send to non-WSJ subscribers to access the article for 7 days [I subscribe but sent the article to myself to get the link]:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB116787404778066596-email.html

The NY Times also has a similar article today. Try this link. (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/04/technology/04video.html)

[QUOTE]

On a different occasion recently, I noticed a weird noise from the DVD drive when copying from the HDD ( like a whirring bad bearing noise) and got the message that can not complete copy ( or similar to that). Happened one more that session and got another coaster. first time ever for Sony DVD-R disks out of about 150. This is my first machine manufactured coaster, the others may be from other operator errors. Note that these two events are NOT related.


Update: After changing disk brands (and changing back) this was not a problem. Must have been a bad disk (or two) :confused:

Seems like I heard by the "grapevine" (here) that Pioneer would not make any more DVR's. So what are us 640 lovers going to do for a DVR? (without?) :(

From post above: hope that Tohsiba does not write the instruction book! :rolleyes:

Huh? Panasonic is (virtually) out of the game, Sony is crud, Toshiba is unreliable, now Pioneer is going to stop making DVR?

[QUOTE=bphouston]
... Seems like I heard by the "grapevine" (here) that Pioneer would not make any more DVR's. So what are us 640 lovers going to do for a DVR? (without?) :(


The same thing some of us 420/520H lovers did when the manual for Pioneer's 2005 models could be downloaded and some of the features we loved on the 420/520 were missing: Try picking up another 640H (or two) when authorized resellers are clearing out their inventory.

Someone mentioned here getting a 520H this way for $200!!! I got another one for $299 (before shipping/tax) and was delighted. I have seen used 520Hs going for more than this on eBay. Same might hold, in the future, for the 640H.

Pioneer is done. Panasonic looks like it will continue. Its deal with Pioneer being evidence of that. JVC is done. Toshiba is already making the transition to lower end stuff. Hopefully Toshiba will continue to do the higher end like the xs55. I personally don't think Toshiba is any less reliable than the others but I may have been lucky. It looks like LG and Samsung have moved their price points down in order to compete.

The higher end consumer DVD recorders are a niche market. This niche will only become smaller as cheaper dvd recorders proliferate. Just look at DVD players for a bit of historical perspective.

Unless they change their mind, Pioneer anounced some months ago that they would exit the DVDR business; instead, they would team with others (Panasonic for one) in other "projects." I can't find the link I posted then, but it was pretty specific on Yen they've lost, etc.

The NY Times link rgazzarra posted above is more recent but more general in content.

Someone suggested back then that they would probably let someone else make DVDRs for them???

[QUOTE=bphouston]
Seems like I heard by the "grapevine" (here) that Pioneer would not make any more DVR's. So what are us 640 lovers going to do for a DVR? (without?) :(

That's why we all bought a second one? :D

Urlee

The store is REX you can find it at rexstores on the internet.

REX's weekly ad showed the model and the price for more than once. I checked and found it twice.

~dgpoole

The store is REX you can find it at rexstores on the internet.

REX's weekly ad showed the model and the price for more than once. I checked and found it twice.

~dgpoole
But are they an authorized dealer ? Based in Canada, or the U.S. ?

Let me make sure I've got this right . . . rather than have to go back and delve deeply through the 72 pages we've accumulated on this thread so far:

O.K., the movie or program title does not get picked up for timer recordings -- that much I think I knew, going in. This is the big, game-losing muff, the critical feature Pioneer failed to carry over from the earlier 52x / 53X / 63x models.

It might get picked up by a live, real-time recording -- depending on the channel, the sat or cable provider, the weather . . . who knows. But no guarantees.

But here's the detail I lost track of: even if you input the title ahead of time, into the Timer Rec info screen, it still does not get listed. Major bummer !! I probably should have recalled this, from reading this thread and some spinoff ones, but I've only been using my 640 for a short time. And this shortcoming has become a source of continuing annoyance.

Let me make sure I've got this right . . . rather than have to go back and delve deeply through the 72 pages we've accumulated on this thread so far:

O.K., the movie or program title does not get picked up for timer recordings -- that much I think I knew, going in. This is the big, game-losing muff, the critical feature Pioneer failed to carry over from the earlier 52x / 53X / 63x models.

It might get picked up by a live, real-time recording -- depending on the channel, the sat or cable provider, the weather . . . who knows. But no guarantees.

But here's the detail I lost track of: even if you input the title ahead of time, into the Timer Rec info screen, it still does not get listed. Major bummer !! I probably should have recalled this, from reading this thread and some spinoff ones, but I've only been using my 640 for a short time. And this shortcoming has become a source of continuing annoyance.
If you press the Rec button, chances are pretty good the recording will have a show title...not all channels/shows broadcast a title, but many do.

You're correct about not transferring a title even tho' you entered it in a Timer Rec. program.

The only thing I've found as a poor (very poor) man's workaround is to use the (dumb) Genre symbols for each timer program. There are only 10 Genre symbols that you can change the name of so it "represents" a program type, like naming the Heart symbol "Soaps" and entering that in the Timer Rec. menu.

If that symbol ALSO transferred its name to the Disc Nav screen, it would be great, but the only thing that appears at the bottom of the Disc Nav screen is the dumb symbol. :(

Let me make sure I've got this right . . . rather than have to go back and delve deeply through the 72 pages we've accumulated on this thread so far:

O.K., the movie or program title does not get picked up for timer recordings -- that much I think I knew, going in. This is the big, game-losing muff, the critical feature Pioneer failed to carry over from the earlier 52x / 53X / 63x models.

It might get picked up by a live, real-time recording -- depending on the channel, the sat or cable provider, the weather . . . who knows. But no guarantees.

But here's the detail I lost track of: even if you input the title ahead of time, into the Timer Rec info screen, it still does not get listed. Major bummer !! I probably should have recalled this, from reading this thread and some spinoff ones, but I've only been using my 640 for a short time. And this shortcoming has become a source of continuing annoyance.

Boy, am I glad you made your posting because I was about to post basically the same thing. I see wabjxo already made a reply. My question now is: Wasn't it also mentioned somewhere in this thread that people were calling Pioneer about this and told there *might* be a software fix sometime in the future???

I have had my 640H for about a month now. Pioneer sent it to me in exchange for my 531H, which had ongoing problems with the TVGOS for almost a year.

I wish there had been a fix for the TVGOS because I did prefer a few things on the 531H: 1. Ability to input a title when scheduling a recording; 2. Having a title automatically generated when recording something off the air or cable [I have cable and DirecTV part of the year and antenna/DirecTV the remainder]; 3. Ability to set a recording for the same day and time every week [unless I'm issing something on the 640H]. The larger HDD of the 640H is nice, but given the choice of being able to name a scheduled program or a larger HDD, I would go with the ability to name (and have it take).

Pioneer told me there was a hardware incompatibility with the TVGuide. I should think it's merely a software issue with the naming problem, though--and that Pioneer should fix it given it is a feature on the 640H.

I am going to call Pioneer Monday about the naming issue. Maybe you, Seeker47, should, too, as well as everyone else who has not contacted Pioneer about this yet.

3. Ability to set a recording for the same day and time every week [unless I'm issing something on the 640H].
It's easy to miss this: in the Date box, scroll DOWN to see the Every Sunday, Every Monday, and lots of other choices.

For those still making a buying decision, here's a comprehensive Nov 06 review of the 640. (http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/pioneer-dvr-640hs-dvd-recorder-923.shtml)

The article even discusses my theory that the 640 was supposed to have a TVGOS, but it got deleted at the last minute. That would explain why the timer program title doesn't transfer to the recording...the TVGOS was supposed to provide the title, like in the 2005 models.

That seems to be the best explanation of why the 640 does not transfer the title.
Actually, I have used that to my advantage, it tells me that I have not edited the title, and don't put in the whole name until editing is complete. Of course, I have to actually edit or play the title when don't remember what I recorded.

On different note: Just got a Harmony 880. First impression is not so good. Too many non choices for set up. (it does not give you a "none of the above choice")
Like what do you use to change channels? No, not the tv, and no not the DVR. (only two choices) I use the STB, of course. :mad:
May change my evaluation after setup. Maybe need more time to see.
Wish I had read this before purchasing. http://www.jnd.org/dn.mss/activitycentered_de.html

Boy, am I glad you made your posting because I was about to post basically the same thing. I see wabjxo already made a reply. My question now is: Wasn't it also mentioned somewhere in this thread that people were calling Pioneer about this and told there *might* be a software fix sometime in the future???

I have had my 640H for about a month now. Pioneer sent it to me in exchange for my 531H, which had ongoing problems with the TVGOS for almost a year.

I wish there had been a fix for the TVGOS because I did prefer a few things on the 531H: 1. Ability to input a title when scheduling a recording; 2. Having a title automatically generated when recording something off the air or cable [I have cable and DirecTV part of the year and antenna/DirecTV the remainder]; 3. Ability to set a recording for the same day and time every week [unless I'm issing something on the 640H]. The larger HDD of the 640H is nice, but given the choice of being able to name a scheduled program or a larger HDD, I would go with the ability to name (and have it take).

Pioneer told me there was a hardware incompatibility with the TVGuide. I should think it's merely a software issue with the naming problem, though--and that Pioneer should fix it given it is a feature on the 640H.

I am going to call Pioneer Monday about the naming issue. Maybe you, Seeker47, should, too, as well as everyone else who has not contacted Pioneer about this yet.

Well I will finally expose myself. I decided to wait for a post like this. Which is very similiar to my experience. Regardless of the massive post count this machine has serious problems.

Confirmed. I've decided to move on. Terrible.

O.K., the movie or program title does not get picked up for timer recordings -- that much I think I knew, going in. This is the big, game-losing muff, the critical feature Pioneer failed to carry over from the earlier 52x / 53X / 63x models.

It might get picked up by a live, real-time recording -- depending on the channel, the sat or cable provider, the weather . . . who knows. But no guarantees.

But here's the detail I lost track of: even if you input the title ahead of time, into the Timer Rec info screen, it still does not get listed. Major bummer !! I probably should have recalled this, from reading this thread and some spinoff ones, but I've only been using my 640 for a short time. And this shortcoming has become a source of continuing annoyance.A number of us have been working on Pioneer to get a firmware update regarding this issue. Here's a link to the thread:

Wanna fix the Pioneer DVR-640H-S Timer Event Title Name Issue? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=727506)

If this issue really bothers you, I think this is the best way to do something about it. Your assistance would be appreciated as apparently there hasn't been enough support so far. (No fix yet.) :(

Well I will finally expose myself. I decided to wait for a post like this. Which is very similiar to my experience. Regardless of the massive post count this machine has serious problems.

Confirmed. I've decided to move on. Terrible.Wow, strong words. Have I missed something? AFIAK:

1) You can input a title when scheduling a timer event.
2) The title (if available) is automatically generated when recording something off the air or cable for manual recordings.
3) You do indeed have the ability to set a recording for the same day and time every week. Very flexible options too.

As you can see from my post above I would also prefer if automatic titling was handled differently for timer recordings, but as much as I hate to admit it (and I hope I'm not giving Pioneer ammunition here,) one could say that the way titles are handled is by design and works consistently. If you read the manual, there is no indication otherwise.

My 640s have worked very reliably to date, and my only complaint is that I have to enter titles for recordings I transfer to DVD. Is there some other major problem I am not aware of? Can you elaborate?

I have to guess that nextoo is in sarcasm mode.

Guess so, if the title thing seems to be a dealbreaker, wait until you see what else there is out there IMHO.

AC- it is in the manual as a "tip" that you can put the name in a recording and it will carry over. Hey Urlee, print it out for us. :D (pg 44) (why else would you want to put the name "in advance?") :rolleyes:

Can someone suggest a compatalbe DVD player that will play the 640 recorded format disks? IMHO the VHS is "on the way out", but wife still has VHS she wants to play, so maybe a combo player for both formats. As suggested earlier here that would extend the life of the 640 to have a separate player.

In theory all recorders can create discs compatible with all players. In reality some players don't support or have trouble with certain types of discs or recording modes or details of the video therein. Point being, most players should be able to play the discs you record on a Pioneer 640, even moreso if you use the most compatible recording mode (Video Mode) as opposed to VR Mode.

In theory all recorders can create discs compatible with all players. In reality some players don't support or have trouble with certain types of discs or recording modes or details of the video therein. Point being, most players should be able to play the discs you record on a Pioneer 640, even moreso if you use the most compatible recording mode (Video Mode) as opposed to VR Mode.

Does that include DL disk in Video Mode? (use that almost exclusively-the mode, not DL) I maybe should stay away from the bottom of the line stuff, huh?
Just read all the posts on DVD players. :confused: Dont know what is "best". (do know my pocketbook can't afford that)
Maybe just get a cheapie and wait for it to go obsolete! :rolleyes:

I have to guess that nextoo is in sarcasm mode.Yeah, I figured that was probably the case but he posted elsewhere that he hasn't "found a place" for his 640 and it's back in its box, so I wasn't sure. I figured if it wasn't 100% obvious to me, then clarification for newbies considering a 640 purchase might be in order. (Also gave me a chance to put in my .02 re Seeker47's post.)

(why else would you want to put the name "in advance?") :rolleyes:If you have lots of timer events scheduled (eg weekly) it's much easier to manage if you have them labeled.AC- it is in the manual as a "tip" that you can put the name in a recording and it will carry over. Hey Urlee, print it out for us. :D (pg 44)On pg 44 it just says:

"Tip: To enter a title name for the timer recording in advance, select Set Title Name and follow the on-screen display."

Unfortunately, IMHO that doesn't imply it will be carried forward to recordings. (I wish it did...it would be more ammunition for the cause.)

AC- it is in the manual as a "tip" that you can put the name in a recording and it will carry over. Hey Urlee, print it out for us. :D (pg 44) (why else would you want to put the name "in advance?") :rolleyes:

Sorry, didn't see this 'til now.
You mean just the tip?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/urlee/TIPtitle.jpg

I am going to call Pioneer Monday about the naming issue. Maybe you, Seeker47, should, too, as well as everyone else who has not contacted Pioneer about this yet.

If this issue really bothers you, I think this is the best way to do something about it. Your assistance would be appreciated as apparently there hasn't been enough support so far. (No fix yet.)

I would be glad to do this . . . BUT, I don't want to waste my time with clueless Tech Support or know-nothing company rep.s -- particularly if they are of the now common outsourced variety. Can someone provide me with a better, more-targeted contact ? A Pioneer exec. name and address in Japan, or a Pioneer North America contact (name, address, ph. #) that is hands-on with this issue ?

On pg 44 it just says:

"Tip: To enter a title name for the timer recording in advance, select Set Title Name and follow the on-screen display."

Unfortunately, IMHO that doesn't imply it will be carried forward to recordings. (I wish it did...it would be more ammunition for the cause.)

Yeah, I don't see what the point of that is, if what you enter does not carry over with the timed recording. And in my experience, it does NOT.

Just obtained DVR-640H-S and set up worked just fine. Managed to tape several on-air shows no problem However, am having problem with movie taped to HDD. Upon play back, TV sound says "Your listening to the secondary audio chanel for TNT....." Any ideas how to get normal audio on this recording or how to record properly in future.

Thanks in advance and this forum has provided much help.

I just got off the phone with Pioneer and a firmware update to solve this problem is now available. All one has to do is take one's 640H with the original sales receipt to a local service center.

WHen I called I did not say I was aware of the problem from here. I said I had recently received my 640H directly from Pioneer in exchange for my 531H and think there might be something wrong with the machine. Before I could finish telling the woman about not having the input title carry over, she interupted, gave me a full description of the problem, then said Pioneer was aware of the issue and now had a firmware update.

According to the woman, this firmware update has just been available for about a week. She said it was obtained via the initiative of Pioneer, U.S.A. in response to a number of calls from people. Pioneer, U.S.A. contacted Japan and got the firmware update from them.

Since I do not have a sales receipt, I have to call back Monday and speak with someone else to get a note (or whatever) to take to the local service center [the woman gave me the names of the closest five places, which for me means places in 3 different states considering how close things are here in New England].

Just obtained DVR-640H-S and set up worked just fine. Managed to tape several on-air shows no problem However, am having problem with movie taped to HDD. Upon play back, TV sound says "Your listening to the secondary audio chanel for TNT....." Any ideas how to get normal audio on this recording or how to record properly in future.

Thanks in advance and this forum has provided much help.Have you tried the Audio button? (It's under the sliding door on the remote.)

I just got off the phone with Pioneer and a firmware update to solve this problem is now available. All one has to do is take one's 640H with the original sales receipt to a local service center.

WHen I called I did not say I was aware of the problem from here. I said I had recently received my 640H directly from Pioneer in exchange for my 531H and think there might be something wrong with the machine. Before I could finish telling the woman about not having the input title carry over, she interupted, gave me a full description of the problem, then said Pioneer was aware of the issue and now had a firmware update.

According to the woman, this firmware update has just been available for about a week. She said it was obtained via the initiative of Pioneer, U.S.A. in response to a number of calls from people. Pioneer, U.S.A. contacted Japan and got the firmware update from them.

Since I do not have a sales receipt, I have to call back Monday and speak with someone else to get a note (or whatever) to take to the local service center [the woman gave me the names of the closest five places, which for me means places in 3 different states considering how close things are here in New England].Hurray! I'll be calling Pioneer Monday morning too. Thanks ngohit!

Yeah, I don't see what the point of that is, if what you enter does not carry over with the timed recording. And in my experience, it does NOT.If you have more than a few weekly timer events programmed and you need to make an adjustment or cancel one, you will quickly understand the value of naming them. Anyway, now if a firmware update is available for this issue maybe they will be used after all.

Did try the Audio button. Does not provide alternative or seem to help. Just shows status. Does have a 1/1 with the first 1 blinking. Also says Dolby Digital 2/OCH.

I run the recorder directly to a TV. Problem could be that I taped with
Dolby on. Have since turned off. I'll have to try.

Thanks

But are they an authorized dealer ? Based in Canada, or the U.S. ?

They're a brick & mortar store here in upstate New York. (The Web site says they're based in Dayton, Ohio, and have 200 stores in the US, but I had never heard of them whe I lived in Cleveland.) There's a Cortland store, and there was an Ithaca store till a Best Buy opened in the same mall.

Rex's B&M prices have generaly been very good, comparing favorably with Internet prices on several occasions. And I found the salespeople in Cortland to be generally helpful and knowledgeable.

They don't trumpet the Internet connection, but since I read here about rexstores dot com I looked at the Web site and it's the same logo. I'd order from them without hesitation.

I just now phoned the Cortland store, and yes, they're an authorized Pioneer dealer.

as much as I hate to admit it (and I hope I'm not giving Pioneer ammunition here,) one could say that the way titles are handled is by design and works consistently.

HUH? How do you get that?

If it's by design that the user enters information that the unit then silently THROWS AWAY, that's a pretty poor design. This is the first I've ever heard that entering titles when scheduling a recording, then having the unit discard the titles, is anything other than a bug.

And I don't buy the explanation "oh, it's just because TVGOS was deleted." If TVGOS was supposed to supply the titles, then there's no reason to have the user enter them in the first place.

All of this is so obvious that it must have occurred to you too, so I must have misinterpreted you. ;)

Can someone suggest a compatible DVD player that will play the 640 recorded format disks? IMHO the VHS is "on the way out", but wife still has VHS she wants to play, so maybe a combo player for both formats. As suggested earlier here that would extend the life of the 640 to have a separate player.

Make sure when burning a DVD that you select "Video Mode" (not VR mode) [note 2] and "Finalize". In this case almost any player will play the disk. If it's not finalized, few will play it. (If memory serves, even my computer wouldn't play a non-finalized disk.)

One caveat: when I say "any player" I mean any that take that particular format of disk. Some take DVD-R, some take DVD+R. (I'm ignoring -RAM and +/-RW formats, which are less widely accepted.[note 1]) Pioneer can burn either +R or -R, among others, so just make sure you buy DVD-Rs if your player takes DVD-Rs or DVD+Rs if your player takes DVD+Rs.

[note 1] Some people like -RW or +RW because they can be reused. My view is that -R and +R are so cheap I'd rather go for maximum compatibility.

[note 2] As discussed here, if you're not planning to do computer-based editing, you shoudl probably be recording to hard drive in Video Mode anyway. You can still edit out commercials, select thumbnails, etc. -- you're just limited to half-second increments.

If you have lots of timer events scheduled (eg weekly) it's much easier to manage if you have them labeled.On pg 44 it just says:

"Tip: To enter a title name for the timer recording in advance, select Set Title Name and follow the on-screen display."

Unfortunately, IMHO that doesn't imply it will be carried forward to recordings. (I wish it did...it would be more ammunition for the cause.)

IMHO it *does* imply that -- what other motivation could there be for titling a timer recording in advance?

But moving on... :) here's my own particular adaptation to this problem.

Before getting a DVDR, I had formed the habit of checking online TV listings (excite dot com) a few days at a time. I entered date, start and stop times, channel, and title in a spreadsheet, which was easy to sort by date and time. Then I would set the VCRs (now usually the DVDR) to record them.

This also made it easy to keep track of weekly shows -- as others have mentioned, "Every Sunday" and such are options for setting recordings.[note 1]

After the recording appears on HD, I enter the title. It stays in the spreadsheet as long as the recording is on HD -- when I delete it I remove he line from the spreadsheet. That might not work for everyone, but by comparing the record date and time from Disc Navigator to my spreadsheet I can at least tell what I recorded.

[note 1] A nice feature: when you have an every-week recording previously set, you can select "cancel once" to skip the next scheduled occurrence and then utomatically resume the following week.

I just got off the phone with Pioneer and a firmware update to solve this problem is now available. All one has to do is take one's 640H with the original sales receipt to a local service center.

This is really great news! :D Frankly I didn't think it would ever happen. It really vindicates ACPewty's campaign to have us all call in the problem, which I'm proud to say I did during my first week of ownership. :)

Can someone who gets this update applied please:

(1) let us know what was done (chip swap, update disk "played", etc)

(2) confirm that it works :)

(3) let us know if there are any other changes

Does anyone know an online list of service centers? I couldn't find this on Pioneer's Web site, but I got "an error has occurred" when I tried searching. I'll bet it will be a royal pain for me to get to a service center -- the downside of living in a thinly populated area. I wonder if I can persuade them to mail me the update or let me download it.

I bought from Vanns -- I'd hate to think I have to mail my unit in.

I just got off the phone with Pioneer and a firmware update to solve this problem is now available. All one has to do is take one's 640H with the original sales receipt to a local service center.

Alright! I will try to arrange to have a firmwire update on the Pioneer DVR-640H-S unit as soon as I find the nationwide store ( if it is an authorized dealer ) or an authorized dealer service center around the Clemson town. My daughter is going back to the University tomorrow ( Sunday )...Can't wait to hear about the quiet hard drive at nights. Let the computerized machine wowing at her and her peers!... :)

~dgpoole

Can't wait to hear about the quiet hard drive at nights. Let the computerized machine wowing at her and her peers!... :) ~dgpoole

You bet your boots it's quiet!!!!!!!

I set it to record a 2½ hour program while I was sleeping.
Just so happens, my dog wanted out and woke me up when that program was still recording and I had to check to see if it WAS recording cause I didn't hear it.
Seems tho, that my bedroom machine is quieter than my Living room one.

:) :)

HUH? How do you get that?

If it's by design that the user enters information that the unit then silently THROWS AWAY, that's a pretty poor design. This is the first I've ever heard that entering titles when scheduling a recording, then having the unit discard the titles, is anything other than a bug.I agree entering a title for a one-time timer event is a waste of time because the title will be lost once the recording takes place, but I still name all weekly recordings which makes it easier to keep track of all the timer events. There is indeed value in entering title names for timer events in advance if you do lots of weekly recordings. (You don't have to remember the day/time each program is on to keep it straight.)

Nowhere in the manual does it explicitly state that the timer event title names you enter prior to recording will be used for the recording.

What I'm saying is that if you look in the manual there are pictures clearly displayed (eg page 57) of the disc navigator populated with recordings with the usual title names that are missing the program name, but just use the date, time, channel and bitrate just as we are all used to it. Pioneer could easily have taken the stance that this behavior is by design since it is clearly documented in advance. (Not necessarily a good design IMHO, but also not necessarily a bug that would force a costly repair from Pioneer.)

This is why I started the thread. I figured Pioneer had an excuse to do nothing and avoid a costly repair if there wasn't enough complaints from 640 owners.

I burned 2 hours of SP recorded material containing 5 titles from HDD to DVD via high speed. I selected Finalize, chose one of the menus, and made the copy. No problem. Disc and menu works fine.

Then I burned 4 hours of LP recorded material containing 8 titles from HDD to DVD via high speed. I selected Finalize, chose a menu, and made the copy. The DVD works fine but there is no menu. I repeated the burn and chose a different menu and still I get no menu on the disc.

So I burned 45 minutes of SP recorded material on one title from HDD to DVD via high speed. Disc is fine, menu is present.

Media is DVD +R

Any thoughts?

I burned 2 hours of SP recorded material containing 5 titles from HDD to DVD via high speed. I selected Finalize, chose one of the menus, and made the copy. No problem. Disc and menu works fine.

Then I burned 4 hours of LP recorded material containing 8 titles from HDD to DVD via high speed. I selected Finalize, chose a menu, and made the copy. The DVD works fine but there is no menu. I repeated the burn and chose a different menu and still I get no menu on the disc.

So I burned 45 minutes of SP recorded material on one title from HDD to DVD via high speed. Disc is fine, menu is present.

Media is DVD +R

Any thoughts?
WAG...Could it be the menus you already selected ran out of room for 8 titles? Maybe select the bottom-right menu, which shows 10 titles on the first page???

I have had my 640H for about a month now. Pioneer sent it to me in exchange for my 531H, which had ongoing problems with the TVGOS for almost a year.

I wish there had been a fix for the TVGOS because I did prefer a few things on the 531H: 1. Ability to input a title when scheduling a recording; 2. Having a title automatically generated when recording something off the air or cable [I have cable and DirecTV part of the year and antenna/DirecTV the remainder]; 3. Ability to set a recording for the same day and time every week [unless I'm issing something on the 640H]. The larger HDD of the 640H is nice, but given the choice of being able to name a scheduled program or a larger HDD, I would go with the ability to name (and have it take).

I too have a 531, it is connected to a digital cable box, but I can't seem to input a title when scheduling a Timer recording. How do you do this? Is it mentioned in the manual? It also will not pick up a title on a timer recording but will on a manual recording, just like my 640. How is it that yours does? I must be missing something. Any assistance you could offer would be appreciated.

can I do the one-touch copy even on DVD encoded with 5.1 sound? (I've created some wedding videos with 5.1, 16:9 Anamorphic flag).


David, if these are burnt, rather than pressed videos, with NO copy protection, you should be able to make bit-for-bit copies of them including 5.1, anamorphic by using the "Disc backup" feature. It will only allow exact copies, and will not allow editing in the 640's HDD. Select "Disc backup" under "Copy" in the Home Menu.

Hi guys :) How do you choose what menu templates you want recorded to a DVD when burning? Is this even possible?

This is really great news! :D Frankly I didn't think it would ever happen. It really vindicates ACPewty's campaign to have us all call in the problem, which I'm proud to say I did during my first week of ownership. :)

Can someone who gets this update applied please:

(1) let us know what was done (chip swap, update disk "played", etc)

(2) confirm that it works :)

(3) let us know if there are any other changes

Does anyone know an online list of service centers? I couldn't find this on Pioneer's Web site, but I got "an error has occurred" when I tried searching. I'll bet it will be a royal pain for me to get to a service center -- the downside of living in a thinly populated area. I wonder if I can persuade them to mail me the update or let me download it.

I bought from Vanns -- I'd hate to think I have to mail my unit in.

Stan: I am going to be making future postings on this issue to the, "Wanna fix the Pioneer DVR-640H-S Timer Event Title Name Issue?," thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=727506

It will be easier for people to find information there and that thread was started specifically for the naming problem.

I suspect the best way to find a repair center will be to give Pioneer a call. The U.S. and Canadian phone numbers are in the initial posting to that thread. I was surprised there were places I could drive to (although three are 45 minutes away in different directions, different states) because I definitely live in the boonies. All my Pioneer recorders had to be mail ordered. So, you might be able to drive your machine to a shop, too.

dvdiva: I was going to send you a PM about the 531, but you do not accept PMs. How about starting a new thread for the 531H??

Hi guys :) How do you choose what menu templates you want recorded to a DVD when burning? Is this even possible?

After you click "Start Copy", you get a selection of menu templates. I don't know of any way to make the selection in advance and store it as a preference.

We're in agreement on the main points, that the fix is very welcome and that Pioneer was't legally obligated to do it, but I really have to try once more to get us to agree on simple logic.

Nowhere in the manual does it explicitly state that the timer event title names you enter prior to recording will be used for the recording.

By that logic, if the recorder simply failed to make some recordings[note 1], it would be operating "by design" since the manual does not explicitly say that every single recording you schedule will actually get made. Or the recorder could automatically delete recordings after you watched them, since the manual doesn't say recordings are retained after watching. Or, by the same logic, it could delete them after you copy them to DVD.

What I'm saying is that if you look in the manual there are pictures clearly displayed (eg page 57) of the disc navigator populated with recordings with the usual title names that are missing the program name, but just use the date, time, channel and bitrate just as we are all used to it.

So? That's what you get if you don't bother to enter a title when scheduling the recording. In no way does it support throwing away the titles that *were* entered.

Pioneer could easily have taken the stance that this behavior is by design since it is clearly documented in advance.

I don't want to be rude, but I really don't see your logic here. To say that something isn't explicitly denied in the manual is very very different from saying it is "clearly documented in advance." That's like saying that since I don't deny being a baby-eating monster I must *be* a baby-eating monster.

Fortunately, it doesn't matter. :) One thing we agree on: it's very good indeed that Pioneer is altering the design (as you would say) or fixing the bug (as I say).

[note 1] My 633 actually *did* simply fail to make some recordings. Are you really going to argue thatit was operating "by design", just because the manual didn't say "every recording you schedule correctly will actually get made"?

BaltimoreStan: Before making this posting I got out the manual for the 420H/520H. It does not, "explicity state," the title name input will show up once the recording is made [ACPewty's quote in your posting], but it definitely does--100% of the time on my machines.

Going with this, since Pioneer has had this feature on machines prior to the 640H, they would have to clearly state the feature was changed if it was or customers owning prior year machines would be furious that thing have changed without warning: The 640H manual would have to have said the input name would _not_ be listed once the recording was made, was only for information purposes in the scheduled recording lineup.

I do not know if it would be due to legal issues that Pionner could not put title names in their manual diagrams. These manuals serve many different areas. How would they decide what to add. A popular movie title? TV show? Tricky area here, best avoided but showing things without a title.

In terms of the 640H manual itself, it is not as easy to use as prior year model manuals due to the lack of an index. Also, some information from other years manuals of relevance to the 640H is either missing or difficult to find (no index related?). Right off, I could not find a section on how to program the remote if more than one Pioneer DVD recorder is in the same room. I had to refer to my 420/520H manual.

If you have lots of timer events scheduled (eg weekly) it's much easier to manage if you have them labeled.On pg 44 it just says:

"Tip: To enter a title name for the timer recording in advance, select Set Title Name and follow the on-screen display."

Unfortunately, IMHO that doesn't imply it will be carried forward to recordings. (I wish it did...it would be more ammunition for the cause.)

Oh, sorry, I didn't make it clear that I KNOW it DOES NOT do what the manual says it is supposed to do. It was "implying" that it did. ("other wise why would you want to put it in if it didn't carry forward") Was trying to point out that it says that it will in the manual as Urlee printed out. (thanks Urlee) :D I thought that AC said it was not in the manual, or did what it said in the manual. Now that everybody is confused. Yes, I wish it did, and NO it does not. Maybe we will all get it fixed now, Thanks guys, now I have to figure out when I can do without the unit to get updated.
Quote:

Originally Posted by ACPewty
Nowhere in the manual does it explicitly state that the timer event title names you enter prior to recording will be used for the recording.

By that logic, if the recorder simply failed to make some recordings[note 1], it would be operating "by design" since the manual does not explicitly say that every single recording you schedule will actually get made. Or the recorder could automatically delete recordings after you watched them, since the manual doesn't say recordings are retained after watching. Or, by the same logic, it could delete them after you copy them to DVD.Well, that's quite a stretch. No, I'm sorry, maybe I should have been more clear since there are really two issues regarding timer event naming:

1) The broadcasted title name is not used for timer events as part of the title name.
2) Timer event title names entered manually in advance are not used for the resultant recordings.

I was referring to number 1, the fact that broadcasted program names aren't picked up automatically for timer events. Since there are pictures in the user manual of the disc navigator populated with recordings with the titles that obviously didn't use the broadcasted program names, in a court of law Pioneer could claim the way timer events are currently titled is by design...whether good or not...no bug.

So? That's what you get if you don't bother to enter a title when scheduling the recording. In no way does it support throwing away the titles that *were* entered.Hopefully this will all soon be a moot point, but again, I think you've missed my point. You seem to be stuck on the assumption that the only possible use for entering a name for a timer event is to carry it forward for the recording(s). We agree that would be useful and preferred, but it isn't the only use. As I already said, if you enter a name for a weekly timer event, it isn't used for the recording but it is'nt thrown away either. It continues to be useful for quickly identifying the entry in the list of timer events. My point: again in a court of law Pioneer would win because there is some value to entering the names in advance, however little that value is. (Admittedly, very little if you don't do weekly timers or schedule lots of events, but moreso if you do.)

I don't want to be rude, but I really don't see your logic here. To say that something isn't explicitly denied in the manual is very very different from saying it is "clearly documented in advance." That's like saying that since I don't deny being a baby-eating monster I must *be* a baby-eating monster.Hopefully you get my point after reading the above. I think there is a good chance that not using broadcasted program names or carrying forward timer event title names was a bug that wasn't caught in testing or by the documentation team, but I think it is more likely that it was just a rushed design. Just because we assume it should work a certain way doesn't mean if it doesn't there's a bug. Keep in mind the 2005 models worked the same way regarding timer event titling.

I was just trying to make the point that if we really do get a firmware fix for this, Pioneer did a nice thing and showed their concern for customer satisfaction because I don't think they had to do it. I'm no lawyer, but If you look at it from a legal standpoint I think anyone trying to sue Pioneer by claiming a timer event titling bug exists in the firmware would lose. There is no evidence to support the assumption that broadcasted title names should be used, or that pre-programmed timer event names will be used for recordings. In fact you could justifiably say by popular demand Pioneer has agreed to add a new feature through a firmware update.

Okay, I'll ask the dumb question. What is a firmware update, and how do they do that? Or dumb assumption, by reprogramming a chip? or replacement? Thanks everybody for making this happen. Everybody happy? :p

Okay, I'll ask the dumb question. What is a firmware update, and how do they do that? Or dumb assumption, by reprogramming a chip? or replacement? Thanks everybody for making this happen. Everybody happy? :pThink of it as a software upgrade. It may require a replacement chip, or if the existing firmware is programmed with the ability to be updated from a CD, DVD or USB device it might come as a download or mailed on a CD.

I'm was hoping for the download, but if it has to be done at a repair center it sounds more like it requires a new chip, or the reprogramming of a chip.

:) Okay! thanks AC Yeaaa...do we get the title carried over in the record input too? :cool:

Before getting a DVDR, I had formed the habit of checking online TV listings (excite dot com) a few days at a time. I entered date, start and stop times, channel, and title in a spreadsheet, which was easy to sort by date and time. Then I would set the VCRs (now usually the DVDR) to record them.
Would you happen to have a template for that ? (And did you have some quick and easy way to import select portions of what you saw on the Excite listings into your spreadsheet ?) I can follow spreadsheets pretty well, but what little I may have learned about setting them up never really sunk in. Use it or lose it, I guess.

What is a firmware update, and how do they do that?It's fairly common to be able to download firmware upgrades over the internet, burn them to a CD, then stick the CD into the player which will automatically recognize the update and install it. That's the best-case scenario, ease-of-use-wise. Or, the worst case is that you'd have to send it in to the shop. We'll just have to wait and see how Pioneer implements it...

In either case, you'll want to make sure that anything on the hard drive you want to keep has been burned to DVD "just in case".

This is the first I've ever heard that entering titles when scheduling a recording, then having the unit discard the titles, is anything other than a bug.

And I don't buy the explanation "oh, it's just because TVGOS was deleted." If TVGOS was supposed to supply the titles, then there's no reason to have the user enter them in the first place.

It shouldn't have been as simple as TVGOS, because the 2005 model 520H never had this feature, yet the title info was usually there, and did indeed carry over. In that case, the title info must have come from the channel / cable or sat provider, as part of the program signal. Sometimes that info was not included, or was some misleading or non-informative default info. For example, if you recorded any episodes from the (original series) Twilight Zone marathon on Sci-Fi channel, over the New Year's holiday period, you just got a lot of "Evertz Broadcasting" where you thought a useful title would be. Why, I'm not sure. (I thought Showtime owned Sci-Fi . . . ?)

Anyway, it may be possible that the TVGOS feature removal was responsible, in a roundabout way, and this is one reason companies aren't all that eager to mess around with firmware revisions. I'm no programmer, and I could be wrong, but I think the sections of code are not like simple Lego blocks. I think the end result is more of a woven unity. That is to say, removing something or changing something can have unintended consequences or interactions, in terms of the whole.

And so, I'd also like to have some confidence that this fix has not broken anything else, before I rush on down to the nearest service center. But I am glad that our efforts helped to move this effort forward.

They're a brick & mortar store here in upstate New York.

They don't trumpet the Internet connection, but since I read here about rexstores dot com I looked at the Web site and it's the same logo. I'd order from them without hesitation.

I just now phoned the Cortland store, and yes, they're an authorized Pioneer dealer.

Hmmm, I just went to the website, and they list only 3 DVD Recorders, none of them a Pioneer. In fact, a site search there for "All Products" and "Pioneer" returns a 'Not Found.'

There seems to be a detail I missed, if it has been discussed here -- and I would think that it must have been. When editing on the 520, I'm viewing what must be frames or fractional seconds. It is easy to put cuts exactly where I want them, and I don't see them shifting at all when I HS copy them for storage on DVD. (But then, I do try to Cut on fades or black frames, whenever possible.) I take it this must be Frame Accurate editing, as the 520's default ? I don't recall making such a choice in the initial Setup options (although it is possible I did and just don't remember it), nor at any point am I ever asked whether or not I want to do FA edits.

On the 640, I think it always asks which type of edits you want to do. To date, I have just gone with the default, which seems to be non-FA. The Preview window -- and therefore the Cut options -- increment or decrement only in the 15 frames or 1/2 second jumps. This does not provide the exact placement I'm used to from the 520. I'll have to make a point of trying it the other way, and see if I have any problem with edit points or Chapter Marks shifting, once I drop the program off to DVD.

Originally Posted by BaltimoreStan
This is the first I've ever heard that entering titles when scheduling a recording, then having the unit discard the titles, is anything other than a bug.

And I don't buy the explanation "oh, it's just because TVGOS was deleted." If TVGOS was supposed to supply the titles, then there's no reason to have the user enter them in the first place.

It shouldn't have been as simple as TVGOS, because the 2005 model 520H never had this feature, yet the title info was usually there, and did indeed carry over. In that case, the title info must have come from the channel / cable or sat provider, as part of the program signal. Sometimes that info was not included, or was some misleading or non-informative default info. For example, if you recorded any episodes from the (original series) Twilight Zone marathon on Sci-Fi channel, over the New Year's holiday period, you just got a lot of "Evertz Broadcasting" where you thought a useful title would be. Why, I'm not sure. (I thought Showtime owned Sci-Fi . . . ?)

Anyway, it may be possible that the TVGOS feature removal was responsible, in a roundabout way, and this is one reason companies aren't all that eager to mess around with firmware revisions. I'm no programmer, and I could be wrong, but I think the sections of code are not like simple Lego blocks. I think the end result is more of a woven unity. That is to say, removing something or changing something can have unintended consequences or interactions, in terms of the whole.

And so, I'd also like to have some confidence that this fix has not broken anything else, before I rush on down to the nearest service center. But I am glad that our efforts helped to move this effort forward.

I have quoted the entire section you quoted from BaltimoreStan because my reply responds to it, too.

The interface of the 640H has far more in common with the 531/633 (TVGOS models) than the 520H. I, personally, prefer the way things are on the 420/520H, but this is a matter of individual taste.

What I am wondering is whether so many changes were made between the 420/520H and TVGOS 531/633H models, changes beyond the addition of the TVGOS, that removing the TVGOS was not a smooth process and that the naming problem is one of the things that got screwed-up.

BaltimoreStan: the TVGOS on the 531/633H was a usless feature if a person had DirecTV (and maybe DISH?). As someone in Pioneer technical support told me, the quality of the TVGuide download one received is totally dependent on the PBS station from which it is obtained. Basically, not all TVGuide feeds are of equal quality.

The TVGuide feed my 531H received when I was in New England was from one of the big-boy PBS station, WGBH. The titling (if I set a recording via the TVGuide) was acceptable unless it was for a movie, which was hit or miss. All this was via a roof antenna.

While in PA for part of the year, the Pioneer tech support fellow determined I was getting programming from a station in (rinky-dink) Pittston, a station which is not even broadcasting 24-7. Although the ma-pa cable company I use there has 3 PBS stations, it is the Pittston station from which my cable company gets their TVGuide feed. The TVGudie schedule downloaded there was horrendous--literally EVERY ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox station east of the Mississippi, maybe even farther west, was listed. These hundreds of stations I do not get were mixed up with the station I can. Because of my feed there, the way things got named if scheduled through the TVGuide listing was mostly a mess.

Being able to name something, even if it would be automatically generated during recording correctly, is nice if someone wants to enter the episode number and/or actual title. Example: Instead of just seeing, "Magnum, P.I.," I would rather have the program titled after the season and episode, like: 1:6 Skin Deep [the episode showing on Sleuth at 7 p.m. tonight].

There seems to be a detail I missed, if it has been discussed here -- and I would think that it must have been. When editing on the 520, I'm viewing what must be frames or fractional seconds. It is easy to put cuts exactly where I want them, and I don't see them shifting at all when I HS copy them for storage on DVD. (But then, I do try to Cut on fades or black frames, whenever possible.) I take it this must be Frame Accurate editing, as the 520's default ? I don't recall making such a choice in the initial Setup options (although it is possible I did and just don't remember it), nor at any point am I ever asked whether or not I want to do FA edits.

On the 640, I think it always asks which type of edits you want to do. To date, I have just gone with the default, which seems to be non-FA. The Preview window -- and therefore the Cut options -- increment or decrement only in the 15 frames or 1/2 second jumps. This does not provide the exact placement I'm used to from the 520. I'll have to make a point of trying it the other way, and see if I have any problem with edit points or Chapter Marks shifting, once I drop the program off to DVD.

I do not recall anyone bringing this up before, Seeker47, but I think you are correct that only frame accurate editing is available on the 520H. Before making this posting I took a quick look at the setup options on my 520H and nothing is there. Next, I grabbed the manual and likewise, nothing about selecting between frame accurate or non-accurate.

This selecting between non-accurate and accurate was introduced with the 531/633H. At first I used the non-accurate default when erasing a section, but got frustrated trying to make the cuts and started using frame accurate only for commercial erasing. For adding chapter marks (movies without commercials), I am not as picky about where the chapter mark goes.

I have watched some edited programs copied to DVDs after frame accurate commercial removal on the returned 531H. Perfect. Just like on the 520H. Although I have not as yet made any DVDs with my 640H, I assume frame accurate section removal with be the same as with the 531H (and 520H).

As an aside, while looking in the 520H manual, I shook my head when I spotted Pioneer's comment on page 78 in the Editing section:

"You can create new chapters within a title using the CHP MARK button while playing the title or during recording. This is useful not just for navigation of the disk content but also for editing purposes."

D*&n right. Amazing that Pioneer would state something is useful then drop it.

[QUOTE]=ngohit]"You can create new chapters within a title using the CHP MARK button while playing the title or during recording. This is useful not just for navigation of the disk content but also for editing purposes.


You can't make chapter marks when you are recording a "timer recording" event.
(at least it won't do it on my remote.) It can be done when just pressing "record" to record.

I do not recall anyone bringing this up before, Seeker47, but I think you are correct that only frame accurate editing is available on the 520H. Before making this posting I took a quick look at the setup options on my 520H and nothing is there. Next, I grabbed the manual and likewise, nothing about selecting between frame accurate or non-accurate.

This selecting between non-accurate and accurate was introduced with the 531/633H. At first I used the non-accurate default when erasing a section, but got frustrated trying to make the cuts and started using frame accurate only for commercial erasing. For adding chapter marks (movies without commercials), I am not as picky about where the chapter mark goes.

I have watched some edited programs copied to DVDs after frame accurate commercial removal on the returned 531H. Perfect. Just like on the 520H. Although I have not as yet made any DVDs with my 640H, I assume frame accurate section removal with be the same as with the 531H (and 520H).

As an aside, while looking in the 520H manual, I shook my head when I spotted Pioneer's comment on page 78 in the Editing section:

"You can create new chapters within a title using the CHP MARK button while playing the title or during recording. This is useful not just for navigation of the disk content but also for editing purposes."

D*&n right. Amazing that Pioneer would state something is useful then drop it.
In my 520H manual, Frame Accurate editing is documented on page 102 of the manual, in the Recording Settings section of Chapter 13 - The Initial Setup Menu. The default is specified as "Off."

[QUOTE]


You can't make chapter marks when you are recording a "timer recording" event.
(at least it won't do it on my remote.) It can be done when just pressing "record" to record.

First, Dave, thank you for pointing me to page 102. I had been looking through pages 73-85 (Chapter 8, Editing).

bphouston: I was surprised when I read your posting because I can with my remote, whether I add chapter marks in real time or during chase play for a scheduled recording on the 520H. On my 640H, however, I can not go to the menu and add a chapter mark while something is being recorded. Unlike the 520H, I can not do any editing related function (add chapter mark) on the 640H until the recording is done.

sorry 'bout that, the server duplicated the post

[QUOTE=bphouston]

First, Dave, thank you for pointing me to page 102. I had been looking through pages 73-85 (Chapter 8, Editing).

bphouston: I was surprised when I read your posting because I can with my remote, whether I add chapter marks in real time or during chase play for a scheduled recording on the 520H. On my 640H, however, I can not go to the menu and add a chapter mark while something is being recorded. Unlike the 520H, I can not do any editing related function (add chapter mark) on the 640H until the recording is done.

I wish the 640 could do that. (add chapter marks while timer recording) Don’t think it will do that with my 633 remote either. (while timer recording)
However, you can edit titles on HDD while recording, but not while copying to DVD. And you can play DVD while recording. Wondering if it is the same on the 540? (you probably know all that, but posted so others would know)

Since this thread is getting so long newcomers here may benefit from a redo of previous post.
IMHO:
After several months of operation and burning DVDs (400+ and more on the list)
Things on the 640 that would make it easier for me:
1. the most desired feature of all (to me) is auto chapter divide on HDD. This is where most of my editing time is spent. . Toshiba xs32 does this
2. Second on the list the ability to combine titles on the HDD. Toshiba xs32 does this
(Another HO that Toshiba is terrible at ease of editing on this model)
To me, this is a major deficiency. (To be used as the combining of orphans. Or grouping titles on HDD) This can be done on the playlist, but you can’t save your playlist for future copy.
3. Most of the posts here think it should carry over the title set in recording (pg 44 tip) I agree. Update on this is: there will be a fix for this available soon.
4. Also an IR blaster to change the cable box channel to record


And if you want to get picky, it would be nice to have:
1. USB port for keyboard entry of titles That would be a LARGE wish
2.High speed copy of DVD to HDD in video mode- It does if copy speeds are the same.
3. Way to get from Editing back to main menu without quitting menu and restarting menu.
(You can go to the “timer record” menu with one button with the 633 remote- nice option thing to have!)
4. Open/Close - Eject Button on Remote Control – you can close it with DVD play.
( Open and Close are available on the 633 remote)
5. Copy HDD to HDD (similar to the 2nd on the above list)
6. Extend the timer recording to exact time instead of 30 min blocks. (by hitting record again)
No biggie, but you CAN change a scheduled recording end while a recording in progress to exact time. Another Toshiba feature: one button chooses end time.
7. And option of small window to show progress of copy.
8. Larger image on the chapter divide menu- would make editing easier.
9. Save multiple play lists to HDD (Titles saved on play list- but you can’t save ‘em for later)
10. repeat title in DVD disk name with option to change it.
11. Menu Creating Options. Example, how about just one title?
(See also post by Suplex about menu options.)
12. One push button for clear title in edit title. That too is on the 633 remote outside, but still have to one push per letter (Don’t like holding down the button.)
13. Back control so that you are not dropped out of edit mode to do other editing.
14? Would it be possible to edit DVD-RW’s as if they were HDD?
15.(remark) genre does not appear on DVD disk. IMO the Genre is useless unless you store a lot of titles and sort them on the HDD
16. Smaller finalize screen, please. I want to see what I’m watching not how long it takes.
17. Ability to insert chapter marks while timer recording.

Love this unit even though it does not have the above features.



The good stuff:
One very good feature is the ability to start a scheduled recording while finalizing or copying a disk.
That may be in the operating manual, but learned that by accident. The finalization is not done due to interruption, but the recording starts on time. You just have to go back and finalize the disk after the recording program is over. You can edit titles while recording, but not while copying to DVD. ( you can play one) and you can watch DVD while recording to the HDD. Or you can watch a recording in progress, and it will notify you that you have caught up to the live recording. And it supports (records) DVD-R(and RW) DVD+R(and RW) DL and RAM disks and not to mention, Mini DVD +-R and RW !Hope I got all that right, I am sure someone will correct it.

I Have not had major problems with any brand disks used. Mostly in SP high speed copy-Video mode. Maybe less than 2% Some posts here have different experiences.

Media used: Imitation DVD-R 16x (more than 100 used)
Memorex DVD-R 4x
Maxell DVD-RW 2x
TDK DVD-R 8x
Sony DVD-R 4x , Sony DVD-RW (200+) ( they were on sale!)
Memorex DVD+R DL 2.4x (menu title does not show like –R disks)
HP DVD –R 16x, HP DVD+R DL ?x
Toshiba RAM- Sony RAM
And even Office Depot disks.
Tried testing disks on my computer, but it only supports +R media.

Even though this recorder does not have the above features in the wish list, if you find a better recorder for the same price, let me know. If newer Toshiba recorders have upgraded operations (and better instructions manual ) on its editing, IMHO it would be runner up. (although I have not tested other units, this is an opinion –homework is up to you.) Before you decide, edit a title and chapters in both units if possible.
.
How I am dealing with the non forwarded title until we get a firmware update:
In recording timer name enter just a short reminder of the name since it “goes away” after recorded and maybe the channel it should record from. After recording identify the title with a short name leaving the rest of the recorded “title junk” until I have finished chapter editing and thumbnail. That way I know when the editing is complete. learned that after copying a 3hr program without chapter divisions- it was just one looong chapter so if you hit the skip button you were at the end. ( try finding your place in the movie after that!) I use the [Input Title Name] for a break point in entering a long title name to avoid orphans in the display. Line up the second line of the title below the ‘e’ in name for a break point.
It was getting redundant to choose the title for disk name, thumbnail and have title on the marquee.
On the suggestion of a post here, have been using the release date and the run time as the disk name.
(example: 1995 2:15)
There are other suggestions in the thread, but this is already too long.

Since this thread is getting so long newcomers here may benefit from a redo of previous post.
IMHO:
After several months of operation and burning DVDs (400+ and more on the list)
Things on the 640 that would make it easier for me:
...
3. Most of the posts here think it should carry over the title set in recording (pg 44 tip) I agree. Update on this is: there will be a fix for this available soon.



Per my posting on Saturday, the firmware update is available right now (for people in the U.S.A.).

I called Pioneer again today, but as I wrote in an earlier posting here:

I am going to be making future postings on this issue to the, "Wanna fix the Pioneer DVR-640H-S Timer Event Title Name Issue?," thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=727506

It will be easier for people to find information there and that thread was started specifically for the naming problem.

Ladies and gentlemen, today is a red letter day!

After spending hours and hours, well over the course of three weeks, today I finally caught up with "real time" in reading the messages on this monster thread! (too bad there isn't a HS copy ;)) What an amazing adventure it has been. I feel like a part of a big 640H family! :) And I've finally earned the honor to make my first post.

I've had my recorder for about three weeks now (on-line from B&H in NYC). It's my first DVDR (only used VCRs before now). It's the best thing since sliced bread! I've always liked the TiVo idea, but I'm way too cheap to pay monthly for something like that. This is even better!

So, even though I am a stranger and a newcomer to you all, I appreciate all the many dozens of posts, tests, tricks and tips by all the "regulars". Some of you definitely earn high marks for patience, and you obviously listened to your momma when she taught you "if you can't say something nice..." :)

I have to say it was a great surprise to get to the end and find that the long anticipated firmware update has been announced. So many of you have waited long months for this, but for me, it was resolved before I even got to the end of the thread! I do hope that they don't require shipping the unit though, I couldn't stand to be without it, now that I'm used to having it!

Theron

Before getting a DVDR, I had formed the habit of checking online TV listings (excite dot com) a few days at a time. I entered date, start and stop times, channel, and title in a spreadsheet, which was easy to sort by date and time. Then I would set the VCRs (now usually the DVDR) to record them.

Would you happen to have a template for that ? (And did you have some quick and easy way to import select portions of what you saw on the Excite listings into your spreadsheet ?) I can follow spreadsheets pretty well, but what little I may have learned about setting them up never really sunk in. Use it or lose it, I guess.

I hope this URL comes through:
http://the_stan_brown.fastmail.fm/template.xls

Sorry, no fancy import. I just type the information as text.

Well, there's one fancy thing: I type new listings at the end, and then Ctrl-R sorts by date, time, and channel.

Enter dates as for example 1/15 for January 15. Enter times in 24-hour clock, colon required but minutes not required. For instance, 15: to 17:30 is 3 PM to 5:30 PM. 0:5 starts at 5 minutes after midnight. I have one or two leading spaces for channel numbers of two digits or one digit, so that they sort properly.

I get movie times from Excite, and I use them to plan what mode to record in. For example, wen scheduling a 140-minute movie I record it in MN19 so tha it will fit on a single-layer disk.

The S in column 1 reminds me that it's a series, so after I watch a week's episode I change the date and hit Ctrl-R to move it to its proper place for next week.

I'm no programmer, and I could be wrong, but I think the sections of code are not like simple Lego blocks. I think the end result is more of a woven unity. That is to say, removing something or changing something can have unintended consequences or interactions, in terms of the whole.

I *am* a programmer, and while what you say is true, that's not how things are supposed to be. UNIX and Linux and their siblings *are* pretty much like Lego blocks, but Microsoft software went the other way, with everything having a piece in everything else. That's why Windows updates sometimes break application software, and it's why security flaws in Windows are so much more numerous and take so much more time to fix that security holes in Linux.

In other words, when programmers are competent, interactions are kept to a minimum and removing one function doesn't break anything else. Alas, there are many many more programmers now than there used to be, and a shockingly small percentage of them are competent.

I don't know anything about the Pioneer firmware in particular; this is just a general rant. :)

On my 640H, however, I can not go to the menu and add a chapter mark while something is being recorded. Unlike the 520H, I can not do any editing related function (add chapter mark) on the 640H until the recording is done.

Just to clarify, you can edit anything on the HDD *except* the recording that is currently in progress. This is a nice feature of the 640 (and also was true of the 633): while program B is recording, I can watch program A or edit program A to set title, remove commercials, etc. in preparation for burning it to disk.

You can't edit program B while program B is recording, but you can watch it from the beginning. "Chase play" is an awfully nice feature.

Alas, there are many many more programmers now than there used to be, and a shockingly small percentage of them are competent.
Preach it!! :)

Well, there's one fancy thing: I type new listings at the end, and then Ctrl-R sorts by date, time, and channel.
Might want to mention, this is done with a macro, so when you open the file, Excel will ask you if you want to enable macros. Some people are paranoid about macros!

Theron

Just to clarify, you can edit anything on the HDD *except* the recording that is currently in progress. This is a nice feature of the 640 (and also was true of the 633): while program B is recording, I can watch program A or edit program A to set title, remove commercials, etc. in preparation for burning it to disk.

You can't edit program B while program B is recording, but you can watch it from the beginning. "Chase play" is an awfully nice feature.

Correct. The 520H and 640H are really very different machines. Chase play is on both, but if both models were available in stores right now, a knowledgable salesperson would have to ask a customer: Do you want to be able to do preliminary editing to a program while it is being recorded (520H) or be able to do full editing only on programs already recorded (640H)? While something is being recorded, no editing or deleting of previously recorded programs can be done on one (520H) whereas on the other (640H), no editing can be done to what is being recorded.

Given this difference, I use the 520H for recording marathons (i.e. Star Trek, Fresh Prince) that will be watched (using chase play) while being broadcast. That CHP MARK button makes it fast and easy for me to later remove the commercials and separate the episodes into titles. I schedule marathons with the season/episode numbers named [i.e. 1:112347 2:23569] so I can the edit the title names by deleting numbers later [i.e. 1:11, 1:12... 2:23, 2:24...]. Actually, I use the 520H for everything being watched via chase play that I intend to edit then save to DVD--like Boston Legal (ABC, antenna) or Magnum, P.I. (DirecTV stations).

Both machines are used for HBO and Starz/Encore although the edge goes to the 640H due to it's HDD size. The 640H is my dummy Tivo for things I want to watch via chase play but intend to delete after viewing--like Las Vegas [NBC doesn't not come in clear enough to save anything]. Again, because of it's HDD size, I now use the 640H exclusively for transferring old VHS tapes. Once it gets the firmware update, I might start using it (occasionally) for marathons broadcast at times I shall not be watching via chase play. I say occasionally because I do find it cumbersome to stop watching something, go into editing to add a chapter mark or remove a section, then resume watching it until the next commercial--the editing window are of the 640H is, like the 520H's, too small for enjoyable watching of a recording.

[QUOTE=TPKeller2]Might want to mention, this is done with a macro, so when you open the file, Excel will ask you if you want to enable macros. Some people are paranoid about macros!/QUOTE]

Good catch -- I had meant to mention that, but forgot to.

My suggestion to anyone opening an unfamiliar workbook is to DISable macros, then hit Alt-F11 and inspect the code. If the macro sems benign, close the workbook and reopen it with macros enabled.

For those who missed the URL:
http://the_stan_brown.fastmail.fm/template.xls

[QUOTE=TPKeller2]Might want to mention, this is done with a macro, so when you open the file, Excel will ask you if you want to enable macros. Some people are paranoid about macros!/QUOTE]

Good catch -- I had meant to mention that, but forgot to.

My suggestion to anyone opening an unfamiliar workbook is to DISable macros, then hit Alt-F11 and inspect the code. If the macro sems benign, close the workbook and reopen it with macros enabled.

For those who missed the URL:
http://the_stan_brown.fastmail.fm/template.xls

Thanks for making that available. I will be opening this with either Lotus SmartSuite or Open Office -- whichever is up to the task. As such, this may well not expose whatever common vulnerabilities are associated with the MS product.

Thanks for making that available. I will be opening this with either Lotus SmartSuite or Open Office -- whichever is up to the task. As such, this may well not expose whatever common vulnerabilities are associated with the MS product.
Just so there isn't any confusion... the file Stan provided is fine! But since macros can have malicious code in them, Excel asks the user to make sure they are aware that there is a macro present before it opens the file. This is why it's a good idea to let people know there is a macro. If you aren't explicitly told there is a macro, it is good to err on the side of safe, and assume there shouldn't be one there until you have a chance to verify from the source, or take a look yourself, if you are familiar with macros.

Theron

Well, I've gotten so much good info here I thought I'd post my impressions. I bought my DVR 640H-S from B&H Photo online where it still has the same price of $329.95. Pioneer shows B&H Foto, same address (mis-spell or does the retail store actually have a different "name"?), as an authorized retail outlet but I've no idea if Pioneer quibbles about that. B&H does show some non-US models so I doubt that they'd be "authorized" for them: one, the DVR-640H-SE (similar to the H-S but multi-system (PAL/NTSC/SECAM?)and multi-region) I can't trace to any other market but the 645 & 745 are shown at the Pioneer Australia site... both nice looking systems. It does kinda bother me that the err, content deliverers are dragging the U.S. back in this arena.

My package arrived in pristine condition externally and with plenty of "peanuts" so no problem with that, though NJ is a short hop from Brooklyn. :)

Normally I'd do lots of research on buying such a product but this time I have to confess I just read a PCWorld review and figured the features/specs were great for current applications and the hell with the fuzzy HD digital future. If I get 3 years of trouble free use, it'll be at least as good as the Sony[ptui] SLV 998HF(?) VCR I spent so much time "researching" a few years back and which has gradually degenerated into electronic junk. I still miss my old Hitachi VCR which ran perfectly past a DIY belt replacement until a visit to fix the cassette cage mechanism (house-guest damage :mad: ) saw it come back with other problems from the unrelated "maintenance & tune-up" the shop felt obliged to stick me with.

My wife had been harping about getting a DVD player but I wanted a recorder so the 640H-S filled my bill, though maybe we'll get a player anyway, judging from what others have said here... plus the 640 has already shown how finicky it can with the scratched-up rental movies. Some people are such pigs - the most recent rental -- a French movie -- I had to wash the caked food stains off before playing... French people and their umm, food? :D It played OK despite a few scratches but one rented disc had some scratches (circumferential?) which caused the 640 to go into fits: head made some beepy/clunky sounds and it dropped out of play. The disc played fine through the same section in the Lite-On DVD-ROM and NEC DVD-R/W+R/W in my PC.

I have the 640 hooked up similar to the cable box/sat receiver (1) arrangement on Pg.20 of the manual and it works fine and is quite flexible. Our cable is "analog" tuned up to chn. 80 and digital above with no stereo encoder on the cable box antenna out for digital channels. I don't see a better way to hook up. I wish the 640 had a IR "blaster" for timer changing the cable channel but it'd have to go up to channel 400 or so - dunno if such a beast exists?

I haven't used the system as much as I'd like - no serious DVD recording yet but we're enjoying the convenience of the HDD recording for "non-keepers". This is a big step forward from VCR.

On noise, yes I do notice a very slight throbbing hum from the 640 when the room is otherwise quiet. It sounds just like the noise I hear from the HDD in my PC occasionally - comes and goes and I've traced it to the hard drives with a mechanic's stethoscope. It might be an acoustic beat from the combination of slight hum from both fan and hard drive??

Had one timer incident but maybe for another post since this one is getting a bit long. Thanks to all here for such good, in-depth info & discussion. :)

Must have some bad tuner karma. Won't be recording any PBS or NBC on the Pio640 unless I only want to listen. Both stations have a poor signal; snowy but watchable, except NBC which gets worse if there's something I want to watch. This had been a major concern about digital recorders, but I was relieved when the Polaroid (and then Philips) recorded these stations so well that they looked just like the native TV tuner. OTOH, the 640 degrades the signal, color drops out most of the time, the amount of noise increases, and sometimes the VBI is in the middle of the screen. I tried every 640/TV/VCR cabling combination I could think of. Nothing helped. Fine tuning helped the PBS station temporarily, but not NBC.

Unfortunate, considering what an ordeal it was to get the thing.

Other thoughts: Finally, a decent set of playback functions.
No zoom!?
Clock keeps time when unplugged? (Had to remove it for about an hour while I drilled holes in my cabinet.)

Does the Recorder have a grounded a/c plug?

Just so there isn't any confusion... the file Stan provided is fine! But since macros can have malicious code in them, Excel asks the user to make sure they are aware that there is a macro present before it opens the file.
Theron

Yes, I knew the file would be fine. (And a handy template it is too.) I was just making the comments that 1) I don't even have MS Office or Excel installed, & 2) The more you are able to stay away from MS stuff, the more your vulnerabilities drop exponentially. (If that's not redundant.) Even if there was something fishy about a given file or website you encounter . . . .

btw, I did open Stan's .xls file in both Lotus SmartSuite (which uses Lotus 1-2-3), and in Open Office, and it imported just fine in each, though I suspect OO is much more up to date in its capabilities.

I know this might be a stretch but I've tried getting this to work with little success. Does anybody have the 640 with DTV (even better if you have a Phillips 7000 or any PVR) and a Harmony 880 remote? When I use the menu's on the 640 remote it also controls the PVR box. Does somebody have a good way to setup the 880 for use with those 3 components? I just got my 640 late last week and feel lost.

Until you get the 880 remote programmed, you can reset your 640 to a diff. control code by pressing and holding the remote's Return button, then pressing and holding the 2 or 3 button...hold both for ~5 sec or until you see the display flash with a new control code, then release. (The default code is 1.)

Does somebody have a good way to setup the 880 for use with those 3 components? I just got my 640 late last week and feel lost.
You set up the Harmony Remote online at harmonyremote.com. They also provide tremendous tech support including over the phone. I know because I spent a couple hours with them when setting up mine (I had a very bizaare stereo receiver that required their engineers to create new remote codes).

My wife had been harping about getting a DVD player but I wanted a recorder so the 640H-S filled my bill, though maybe we'll get a player anyway, judging from what others have said here... plus the 640 has already shown how finicky it can with the scratched-up rental movies.

A slightly off-topic comment here. When I bought the 640 it was to be a replacement for a VCR and a DVD player. Then I discovered that a bunch of home-made discs contained some or all PAL programming from stuff that relatives in Europe had sent me. I didn't realize the old DVD player could play PAL and the 640 puked on them. So a DVD player was purchased - a Yamaha DV-S5750 which has played every disc I've thrown into it without complaint.

......Rob

The 520H and 640H are really very different machines.

Yes, and as I said elsewhere, although the 640 has certain definite advantages (several of which you mentioned), all things considered I still prefer the 520H. (So far.) The user interface seems more straightforward to me, and gets in my way much less. But I wouldn't want to do without either of them, and intend to keep the 520 going for as long as I can, even through the need to (eventually) replace the HDD, the burner, or a blown capacitor, which is widely reported to be the Achilles' heel of much of today's consumer electronics. I don't see anything out there in DVDR that really matches up to these units, they have become essential components, and Tivo-type solutions strike me as pretty much of a waste.

A slightly off-topic comment here. When I bought the 640 it was to be a replacement for a VCR and a DVD player. Then I discovered that a bunch of home-made discs contained some or all PAL programming from stuff that relatives in Europe had sent me. I didn't realize the old DVD player could play PAL and the 640 puked on them. So a DVD player was purchased - a Yamaha DV-S5750 which has played every disc I've thrown into it without complaint.

......Rob

Just wanted to clarify something about PAL compatibility. :) My 640 does play PAL discs but it does not convert the signal to NTSC. My TV is an HD model that can handle the PAL signal.

I am considering purchasing the Pioneer 640 but when would it be a good time to buy it? should I wait till spring time when the new recorders come out(with and without digital tuners)? should I just get it as soon as I can and not wait before it sells out(it may due to replacing the older Pioneer recorders for customers)? will the price be any lower then what it is now? thanks

bnm81002: I made a posting to another thread less than an hour ago that addresses your question. It's the last posting in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=767695

I concur that waiting may mean missing out on buying one of these from an authorized Pioneer reseller (which is needed to get the Pioneer warranty). It's just a matter of time before Pioneer stops having these made. The price available now is the lowest price ever for a HDD Pioneer DVD recorder with factory warranty.

I'm going to buy one or the other. I've basically read everything I could about both on this forum. Can anyone give me a simplified version (it's ok if you're biased toward one or the other) of what the difference(s) is/are between the two? I have Directv and don't really care about TV Guide functions.

The difference I've noticed are that Toshiba has better editing functions while Pioneer it will play/record in both + and -

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Does anyone know if you can have the menu pop up after making a disc with a number off episodes on it?. Once the disc is finalized all you get is a black screen. Yes if you use the menu button it comes on but I was wondering if you can have go direct to the menu once the disc is inserted. I find it odd that it doesn't start to play or give you a menu screen. All you get is a black screen.

I've read that a firmware fix exists for the timer programming naming issue. Does anyone have a guess on when the updated 640's will be available from authorized vendors? I'd like to get a second unit before production ceases.

advTHANKSance

I've read that a firmware fix exists for the timer programming naming issue. Does anyone have a guess on when the updated 640's will be available from authorized vendors? I'd like to get a second unit before production ceases.

advTHANKSance

I suggest sending Pioneer this question in an e-mail. In the e-mail you might want to ask if, now that the fix is available, Pioneer will pay for the 640H shipping to the OH or CA repair facility if you buy a machine without the fix right now from an authorized reseller rather than wait until firmware updated machines are available (if they will be).

Here's a Nov. 06 PC World "Top DVD Recorders" review and ranking. (http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,128003/article.html)

I have a question about the Firmware.
Is it only for the Timer Problem or does it fix something else??

I don't use the Timer very often.

I have to disagree with the PC World "Top DVD Recorders"
Because they put the Lite On at #4. and it definitely deserves a worse number

Hello I just received my Pioneer 640H and I have a question about the digital audio out. I see that it is a coax not a optical is there a difference in sound quality? All of my other DVD players and recorders have had optical out.I have heard that digital optical out is better if so why would they put a coax out in a new DVD recorder? Thanks

Hello I just received my Pioneer 640H and I have a question about the digital audio out. I see that it is a coax not a optical is there a difference in sound quality? All of my other DVD players and recorders have had optical out.I have heard that digital optical out is better if so why would they put a coax out in a new DVD recorder? Thanks
The optical and coax digital outs carry the same digital signal--one electrically and one optically. Purists might argue which is better, but they are essentially the same.

Does anyone know if you can have the menu pop up after making a disc with a number off episodes on it?. Once the disc is finalized all you get is a black screen. Yes if you use the menu button it comes on but I was wondering if you can have go direct to the menu once the disc is inserted. I find it odd that it doesn't start to play or give you a menu screen. All you get is a black screen.

This was discussed at length earlier in the thread, but I don't think anyone has answered your question recenttly.

The answer is No. A disk burned by the 633 or 640, when put in a player, will not pop up a menu automatically. The viewer must either press the Menu key to bring up the menu, or the Play key to play all. There's no way to change that behavior, if you burn the disk with the 633 or 640.

If you have multiple titles on a disk, when the player comes to the end of a title it will pause for a couple of seconds and then begin with the next title. Depending on your preferences, this is either a bug or a feature. :)

I've read that a firmware fix exists for the timer programming naming issue. Does anyone have a guess on when the updated 640's will be available from authorized vendors? I'd like to get a second unit before production ceases.

advTHANKSance

I'm in the same camp, though I'm buying my first one. From the other thread, it appears the firmware update is in the very early phases, just being applied to the first machines, and only through authorized service centers. I have no idea what the inventory turnover time is for these units, but if new models are typically released in the spring, I wonder if any 640s will be produced with the firmware upgrade already applied. I sure don't want to buy one and then have to mail it somewhere for an update.

Chris

I'm in the same camp, though I'm buying my first one. From the other thread, it appears the firmware update is in the very early phases, just being applied to the first machines, and only through authorized service centers. I have no idea what the inventory turnover time is for these units, but if new models are typically released in the spring, I wonder if any 640s will be produced with the firmware upgrade already applied. I sure don't want to buy one and then have to mail it somewhere for an update.

Chris

This is an excellent question for Pioneer C.S: You want to buy a machine (from an authorized reseller), but are aware that a firmware update has just been made available to fix the scheduled program naming issue. Since none of the 640Hs in stores right now (or in Pioneer's warehouse) have the update, can Pioneer send you a disk with instructions if you buy the machine so you can do the firmware update yourself [represent yourself as being comfortable doing something like this]? You are torn about whether you should buy a 640H since you have read (here) that existing owners have to send them to Pioneer in CA or OH, and you are uncomfortable doing this.

If enough people who do not own a 640H right now, had wanted to buy one, but now do not know what to do because they do not want to get delivery from the authorized reseller then ship it to Pioneer for the update, Pioneer might listen and start offering a firmware update disk.

Pioneer is fully aware the 640H owners know about the problem. For perspective buyers Pioneer probably is not. If calls from people now torn about buying a 640H because of this result in an acceptable solution, it might help current owners, too.

Here's another idea: Call an authorized reseller, such as Vann's, and ask if they will be installing the firmware update before the unit is shipped to you. They might not be aware of this issue, but you can tell them about it and they can verify this with Pioneer themselves. Vann's checks out returned items before offering them as open boxes, so they should be able to open any 640Hs they have, once one is sold, and install the firmware (if Pioneer will send them the disk) before sending the unit to the customer.

For a company such as Vann's there is real incentive to willingly install the update (if Pioneer will let them). With their liberal return policy, a customer could return it and have Vann's pick up the return shipping because the machine is defective--it does not have the firmware update and the customer is unwilling to pay for it to be shipped to Pioneer (so Vann's gets it back). If they resell it as an open box, they face again having to pay for return shipping, because Vann's will pay for returns of defective open boxes.

I used Vann's as an example because I know they are an authorized reseller and have purchased numerous items from them over the past three years. The same might hold for a number of other authorized resellers (but I doubt if WalMart would be very cooperative).

This is an excellent question for Pioneer C.S: You want to buy a machine (from an authorized reseller), but are aware that a firmware update has just been made available to fix the scheduled program naming issue. Since none of the 640Hs in stores right now (or in Pioneer's warehouse) have the update, can Pioneer send you a disk with instructions if you buy the machine so you can do the firmware update yourself [represent yourself as being comfortable doing something like this]? You are torn about whether you should buy a 640H since you have read (here) that existing owners have to send them to Pioneer in CA or OH, and you are uncomfortable doing this.

If enough people who do not own a 640H right now, had wanted to buy one, but now do not know what to do because they do not want to get delivery from the authorized reseller then ship it to Pioneer for the update, Pioneer might listen and start offering a firmware update disk.

Pioneer is fully aware the 640H owners know about the problem. For perspective buyers Pioneer probably is not. If calls from people now torn about buying a 640H because of this result in an acceptable solution, it might help current owners, too.

Here's another idea: Call an authorized reseller, such as Vann's, and ask if they will be installing the firmware update before the unit is shipped to you. They might not be aware of this issue, but you can tell them about it and they can verify this with Pioneer themselves. Vann's checks out returned items before offering them as open boxes, so they should be able to open any 640Hs they have, once one is sold, and install the firmware (if Pioneer will send them the disk) before sending the unit to the customer.

For a company such as Vann's there is real incentive to willingly install the update (if Pioneer will let them). With their liberal return policy, a customer could return it and have Vann's pick up the return shipping because the machine is defective--it does not have the firmware update and the customer is unwilling to pay for it to be shipped to Pioneer (so Vann's gets it back). If they resell it as an open box, they face again having to pay for return shipping, because Vann's will pay for returns of defective open boxes.

I used Vann's as an example because I know they are an authorized reseller and have purchased numerous items from them over the past three years. The same might hold for a number of other authorized resellers (but I doubt if WalMart would be very cooperative).

Excellent ideas, ngohit. I did send Pioneer an email last night to ask when the 640s with the firmware update would be available through retailers. I did not think of asking them to send me the update disc. Depending on their response, I will pursue that in follow-up. The Vann's idea is a good one, and I may give that a try.

Unrelated Sidebar Comment: I generally don't like making electronics purchases over the Internet because I'm picky and you can't see/touch/try the unit before buying it, and returning a big machine by mail is a hassle to me (regardless of who's paying). Although it seems unavoidable these days, particularly for DVD Recorders. Not one retailer in the Atlanta area carries the Pioneer. Anyway, I bought my first miniDV camcorder back in '99 from Vann's, who I found simply by doing an Internet search and reading what I could about them. I bought "last year's" model and got a great price, and they delivered it on time just as advertised. I was very anxious about that purchase as I was fairly new to the Internet and had never bought a big-ticket item that way before. So I have always had high regard for Vann's, and it's been interesting to see several folks here talk about them favorably. End of sidebar!

Chris

For a company such as Vann's there is real incentive to willingly install the update (if Pioneer will let them). With their liberal return policy, a customer could return it and have Vann's pick up the return shipping because the machine is defective--it does not have the firmware update and the customer is unwilling to pay for it to be shipped to Pioneer (so Vann's gets it back). If they resell it as an open box, they face again having to pay for return shipping, because Vann's will pay for returns of defective open boxes.


Correction and comment:

If someone sent a 640H back to (i.e.) Vann's because it did not have the firmware update, Vann's would send it back to Pioneer as a defective unit. Pioneer would then install the firmware update, but have to sell it as a refurbished unit. Vann's would get all their money back from Pioneer, but Pioneer would not make it's normal profit.

Bringing this matter to the attention of authorized, Pioneer resellers might be the fastest way to get Pioneer moving. The last thing Pioneer wants is to be flooded, by it's authorized resellers, with unsold inventory they now consider defective due to the first 640H returned and a check of when their 640H shippments were received and the date the firmware update was first available to Pioneer. Much better for resellers ( and therefore, Pioneer) to either offer customers an updated, sold as new, machine before it is shipped or the machine and update disk at the same time (making the update optional for the buyer).

Correction and comment:

If someone sent a 640H back to (i.e.) Vann's because it did not have the firmware update, Vann's would send it back to Pioneer as a defective unit. Pioneer would then install the firmware update, but have to sell it as a refurbished unit. Vann's would get all their money back from Pioneer, but Pioneer would not make it's normal profit.

Bringing this matter to the attention of authorized, Pioneer resellers might be the fastest way to get Pioneer moving. The last thing Pioneer wants is to be flooded, by it's authorized resellers, with unsold inventory they now consider defective due to the first 640H returned and a check of when their 640H shippments were received and the date the firmware update was first available to Pioneer. Much better for resellers ( and therefore, Pioneer) to either offer customers an updated, sold as new, machine before it is shipped or the machine and update disk at the same time (making the update optional for the buyer).

Vann's doesn't seem too interested in the issue yet. I have a follow up message in to them. They responded to my initial query in about five minutes, btw. Here's the exchange so far.

My First Message:

Re: Pioneer 640H DVD Recorder

I understand a firmware update was just released in the past few days
(to fix the issue of titles not saving on timer recordings), and is
being applied for existing customers by sending their units to a
service center. I wish to buy a new unit with the firmware update
already applied. When will such a unit be available from Vanns?

Thanks,

Chris Howell


Vann's Response:

Dear Chris,

Unfortunately I would not have that information, you would need to contact Pioneer. Further, if it is after a specific manufacturer date, I will not be able to see the manufacturer date as the warehouse it ships out of is not in the same building I am in. It is actually 12 miles away from where I am.

Thanks!


My Response:

Thank you. I have sent a message to Pioneer but have no response. I would have thought Pioneer would be making retailers aware of the issue, since your customers may consider the unit deficient without the update. I'm anxious to buy the unit, but if there's a firmware update being applied by Pioneer, and it is not present on the model I buy from Vanns, I feel like the unit is defective out of the box. Is there anything you can do to help?

Thanks,

Chris

I'm archiving some video segments till I get time to do my editing project. I can't tell at what MN setting they were archived. Can anyone help?

Here's what I did. On the HDD I have a 47-minute segment at SP that I want to downgrade to MN14. I also have four short segments (2-4 minutes each) at SP, MN23, MN15, and MN19, and I want to save them at their original speeds. All five segments are in Video mode.

I initialized a DVD-R in VR mode, so that I can eventually do a high-speed copy back to HDD. Then I built up my copy list, *not* selecting recording mode for any of the five segments. On the final screen, recording mode was listed as "Real time (mixed)". THe 47-minute segment that I was downgrading did indeed go in real time; the others were transferred to DVD but I don't think they wen in real time. At the end of the RT of the 47-minute segment, the front panel showed "FILE WRITE" for a short time, under a minute I think. There was no FINALIZE, since this is VR mode.

Here's my problem. When I selected DVD and Disc Navigator, it showed all five titles but did not show SP, MN14, or whatever as Disc Navigator does in HDD. I tried high-speed copying them back to HDD (after renaming the originals), but even there the record modes did not show. How can I tell the record modes (speds) of my five segments on disc? The 47-minute one is 1.0 GB, which is about ight for MN14, but the others are all so short that the file length doesn't tell me enough.

Thanks!

I'm archiving some video segments till I get time to do my editing project. I can't tell at what MN setting they were archived. Can anyone help?

Here's what I did. On the HDD I have a 47-minute segment at SP that I want to downgrade to MN14. I also have four short segments (2-4 minutes each) at SP, MN23, MN15, and MN19, and I want to save them at their original speeds. All five segments are in Video mode.

I initialized a DVD-R in VR mode, so that I can eventually do a high-speed copy back to HDD. Then I built up my copy list, *not* selecting recording mode for any of the five segments. On the final screen, recording mode was listed as "Real time (mixed)". THe 47-minute segment that I was downgrading did indeed go in real time; the others were transferred to DVD but I don't think they wen in real time. At the end of the RT of the 47-minute segment, the front panel showed "FILE WRITE" for a short time, under a minute I think. There was no FINALIZE, since this is VR mode.

Here's my problem. When I selected DVD and Disc Navigator, it showed all five titles but did not show SP, MN14, or whatever as Disc Navigator does in HDD. I tried high-speed copying them back to HDD (after renaming the originals), but even there the record modes did not show. How can I tell the record modes (speds) of my five segments on disc? The 47-minute one is 1.0 GB, which is about ight for MN14, but the others are all so short that the file length doesn't tell me enough.

Thanks!
I checked a VR-mode disc I have with mixed rec. modes and, once you change the title (which is where the rec. mode info is normally), there doesn't seem to be any place to go to see the rec mode. Normally, the rec mode also appears in the Display screen with two presses of the Display button while playing each title, but again, changing the title eliminates that info.

The only thing I found that might help...but not very accurate...is to check the Mbps meter while playing each title, which gives an indication of rec mode speed, but not an accurate one? (Meter won't show if/when playing from a Copylist...must be played from originals on HDD or DVD.)

Unless someone else has a better solution, at least this can serve as a lesson learned: keep the rec mode in titles if that will be important later.

P.S. You may already know this: Your MN14 title will always copy in real time in VR mode...MN1-15 can't be HS copied in VR mode.

The only thing I found that might help...but not very accurate...is to check the Mbps meter while playing each title, which gives an indication of rec mode speed, but not an accurate one? (Meter won't show if/when playing from a Copylist...must be played from originals on HDD or DVD.)

A similar and also not favored solution might be to get the video segments onto the PC and check them with a utility that can report bitrates (a keyword search at VideoHelp's Tools section for "bitrate" should bring up some) . . . but then you're still trying to extrapolate (or just plain guess) back to what the original MN was.

Unless someone else has a better solution, at least this can serve as a lesson learned: keep the rec mode in titles if that will be important later..

I never knew when that info might prove important, but imagined that it might, so I've always tried to do that. Started doing it early with the 520, and have carried that over as standard practice on the 640. "Show X @MN26" or "Movie Y @SP", etc. The running time will always be there, as a matter of course. Everything else but the program title is expendable. (If you needed to backtrack the channel or recording time for some reason, that is rarely difficult.) Then, your only problem is going to be one of those really long titles.

Easy ones here...

I didn't have the chance to try that, but here are my questions about inputs...

1-Is it possible to record on L1 (from a satellite receiver) and watch live TV on L3 from another receiver at the same time?

2-Another thing: If I am recording from L1, is it a problem if I change the input to L3 (to watch TV from another satellite receiver)?

Thanks

Easy ones here...

I didn't have the chance to try that, but here are my questions about inputs...

1-Is it possible to record on L1 (from a satellite receiver) and watch live TV on L3 from another receiver at the same time?

2-Another thing: If I am recording from L1, is it a problem if I change the input to L3 (to watch TV from another satellite receiver)?

Thanks
Since the Line Inputs are "in-line" with the Tuner Channels (selected with sequential up/dn on the Channel selector or in Timer Rec menu), you'll only be able to have one Line Input or one Channel active at one time.

If you're already recording from L1 (or any input), you are locked out of any changes to that input for the same reason as above.

1-Is it possible to record on L1 (from a satellite receiver) and watch live TV on L3 from another receiver at the same time?

2-Another thing: If I am recording from L1, is it a problem if I change the input to L3 (to watch TV from another satellite receiver)?

Since the Line Inputs are "in-line" with the Tuner Channels (selected with sequential up/dn on the Channel selector or in Timer Rec menu), you'll only be able to have one Line Input or one Channel active at one time.

The way to deal with this is to take the other input (that's coming from the other satellite receiver, for example) and connect it directly to one of the TV's other inputs as well as to the DVD recorder. Then you can simply select that input on the TV to watch the other program.

This is why it's so important to get a TV set with lots of inputs and other A/V equipment with lots of outputs!

I think I may not have been clear about what I was trying to accomplish, so let me try again.

I have five titles originally recorded to HDD. I want to save them on a DVD-R because I'm not ready to edit them yet, and I want a backup in case of HDD failure.

One is 47 minutes in MN21. It will eventually be part of an MN14 disc, so I may as well downgrade it during the backup.

The other four are just a few minutes each, recorded in SP or MN23 or MN19 or MN15.

How should I do the HDD -> DVD transfer so that the 47-minute title is downgraded to MN14 and the other four keep their present recording modes? And once the copy is done, is there any way to verify the properties of the five segments?

Thanks!