So I have use of an HD-DVD player for the month of June and as expected, I cannot get it to handshake with my Sanyo Z2 projector via HDMI to DVI. It's the dreaded HDCP error.

I called Sanyo today and they were not helpful. Basically, they told me to buy a new projector. Toshiba said they are working on the problem. What I am seeing is that HDCP is a big ****ing scam because most equipment won't talk to each other. Scientific Atlanta HD boxes won't work with most TV's and this Toshiba HD-DVD player won't talk to many projectors and many projectors won't talk to certain players, etc. etc. etc. Add a receiver, like a Denon 2807 or 3506 and you may have have problems as well.

Most of us did our homework when buying DVI or HDMI equipped devices and made sure they were HDCP compliant. But the fact is now that HDCP is in use it is all too clear that the geniuses behind it cannot make it work. It's damned faulty! :mad:

There are quite a few issues, but I wouldn't say "most" don't work.

BTW why don't you just use the component connections?

ICT is not enabled on the releases we've seen so there is no downconversion.

That really sucks that Sanyo isn't supporting you on that issue as it is most definitely listed that their projector is HDCP compliant. I get their reluctance, but there will be some serious class action lawsuits about all of this before it is said and done I'm fairly certain. I know my Panny PT-L300U is NOT HDCP compliant on the DVI port, but I knew it when I bought it and am psyched that component will be supported for at least a little while by the formats.

It really is one of those questions though - if you buy the HDMI->DVI cable, hook things up, and it doesn't work... then why is Sanyo not fixing the problem? Is this a 'new' issue, or has it NEVER been HDCP compliant? They likely KNOW this is a real issue and just don't want to take responsibility. Unfortunately, they have a serious design flaw with the Z2 overheating as well which they try to refuse to acknowledge as 'their' responsibility either.

Gee - I can't wait for that Sanyo HD-DVD... With customer service like they are providing you, it just makes me so want to be first in line.

Not.

What version of HDCP does the Z2 comply to? What is the minimum level the new optical HD players comply to? If they over-lap then someone is wrong and whoever that is does have some issues to sort out. I thought I am using the HDCP part of my Z2 when using my player into it via DVI, perhaps not, actually not certain on that one. HDCP and HDMI seems to have a number of issues in general.

I am in almost the same situation. I have an Infocus 7200 with DVI/HDCP that I cannot get to sync to any HDMI device. It is out of warranty.

Infocus will fix this, they say, but I will have to ship it back and it will cost me. They are saying that they can make it work with at least some specific devices.

I am waiting until I buy a hidef disk player and then I will see about sending the projector.

I am not blaming Infocus for this. They have been helpful.

The problem lies with the industry as a whole for adopting such a thing.

My guess is that HDCP/HDMI is designed to NOT work! By this I mean that anything that goes wrong causes it to shut down. It is not fault-tolerant!

The prime directive is to protect the studios content from possible theft, rather than to work for the honest consumer.

I bought my Sanyo Z2 less than 6 months ago on eBay, due to the fact that it had HDCP-compatible DVI. Thanks Sanyo!

Most of us did our homework when buying DVI or HDMI equipped devices and made sure they were HDCP compliant.

Exactly. This is what angers me the most about the Z2's problems with the A1.

I was hoping to not have to upgrade my projector again until there was an affordable 1080 LCD; we'll see if ICT stays off for that long so I can get by with component.

I was hoping to not have to upgrade my projector again until there was an affordable 1080 LCD; we'll see if ICT stays off for that long so I can get by with component.

That was my opinion too.....but then I upgraded to the new firmware and now I can't upconvert SD DVDs over HDMI-to-DVI, like I could with the original firmware!!!! I get HDMI error 1.

So who's to blame? I don't know, but I feel screwed over.

I think all of us Z2 owners need to band together and call Sanyo. Be nice enough, but ask about that they are going to do to fix the issue. Keep banging on them so they see there are alot of us out here complaining. After all they advertised it as HDCP compliant, which like the OP is one of the reasons I chose the Z2 over other models back in late 2003 when it first came out!

The Z2 is still under warranty (they offer 3 years) and so what will they do if we keep complaining it is broke even after they update the firmware to the latest version etc?

(I presume they'll attempt to do nothing, but it looks like we need to start taking more organized action amongst ourselves).

I've really enjoyed by Z2 in the 2.5 years I've had it, but feel very let down that I now need to plonk down another $2k for a feature it was advertised as having.

Ok, listen, what you guys should do is all agree to throw in x dollars and then hire a lawyer to draft a letter to Sanyo. Shouldn't take more than 1-2 hours of the lawyers time. That will get things moving trust me on this one I've done it myself. Lawyers kick (slap on behind) :D

Matt, What about using component for the time being?

I was an original ower of a Z2 and I had HDMI firmware issues from the start. Sanyo updated the firmware once and it started to work for the unit is was using at the time. I would never buy a Sanyo unit again because of their poor service record. There have been many posts about their refusal to honor their warranty. I know own the Panasonic Ae900 and even though it has a shorter warranty everything works using HDMI.

Matt, just curious but did the player have the lastest firmware installed?

If this is a Z2 problem then are we to infer that the Z2 won't work with any future high-def players (HD or BD)? This does not make me happy :mad:

Ok, listen, what you guys should do is all agree to throw in x dollars and then hire a lawyer to draft a letter to Sanyo. Shouldn't take more than 1-2 hours of the lawyers time. That will get things moving trust me on this one I've done it myself. Lawyers kick (slap on behind) :D

While I think the whole issue is bad, I don't see the logic in doing this other than lining the pockets of a lawyer. Instead of kick cash to a lawyer, why doesn't everyone just put the money towards a better PJ?

I understand the principality of it all, but I would think if each would chuck in a few hundred, why not sell the z2 and then get like an AE900 with the current rebate. The image difference is dramatic seeing as a co-worker whom I sold my old Z2 to 2 years ago just upgraded to the Z4 (which I ahve been tweaking for him thus far) and I have the z2 back right now to clean its panels and...basically, if someone is going to spend money on this issue it is more logical to go buy a current pj not fix one that is far inferior. If you can get away with not spending anyting then hey, go and fix the Z2.

The Toshiba has the latest firmware. Yes, I am now using component. I figured I would have to do that anyway after reading posts in this forum.

My Z2 is still under the 3 year warranty, so I am going raise a stink and send them a letter by certified mail demanding they fix it. This way I have a record of the problem existing and their being notified of it before the 3 years is up.

Matt,

Let us know the name and address you sent it to, as I'll do the same and maybe some others will too.

Cheers,
David.

My experience with Sanyo customer service has been a positive one (had to send my Z3 in once for a panel adjustment). I bet if your Z2 is still under warranty, and you hammer on them enough, you will be able to get a good deal on a Z3 or 4 (refurbished maybe?)

...
My guess is that HDCP/HDMI is designed to NOT work! By this I mean that anything that goes wrong causes it to shut down. It is not fault-tolerant!

The prime directive is to protect the studios content from possible theft, rather than to work for the honest consumer.

That's also my take on the situation.

I think it's going to take a big fat class action suit to get HDCP to the point that there's a good chance it will work with all the possible equipment combination.

Of course, the suit won't help current owners. If they're lucky they'll get a coupon for a cup of Starbucks coffee out of it. But it should eventually result in equipment that actually works reliably. :mad:

Make sure you mention complaining to the Attorney General's Office in your state AND Sanyo's USA state office. Also threaten to complain to the BBB. The BBB complaints stay on file until they resolve the issue, so if enough people complain and they do not resolve the issues, it will stay there permanently.

Do not waste your time with a CS rep, but make sure you get transferred to a manager. Also do not forget to tell them that you are going to all the online forums to blast them too.

If everyone with this problem does this they will most likely fix it for you. Most states have a "Fitness of Merchantability Law" that says a product must meet the use for which it was made/purchased for.

Good luck everyone!

There have been several threads in which Sanyo refused to honor their warranty for the Z2.
The said that the filter was dirty in some cases and in others they just made excuses. The filter never worked and they had HDMI issues from the start. In fairness, Sanyo is not alone having hdmi issues. I believe that th class action suite should be against all companies who have had problems with hdmi and the group from the studios who started the hdmi group. Sony backed down with their CD's after being suied and I bet if the suite is large enough we will see the others back down. There are many grounds for the suite including HDMI not working and the fact that many HD tv's were sold without it and will not work with HDMI sources. It is time for consumers to act against the people who started this thing.

.... I believe that th class action suite should be against all companies who have had problems with hdmi and the group from the studios who started the hdmi group. ....

Yes, that's what I meant. I should have been more clear that I meant everyone involved with HDMI (actually I think it 's really just an HDCP issue not an HDMI issue, so it would be everyone involved with HDCP although that's probably all the same people.).

...........actually I think it 's really just an HDCP issue not an HDMI issue, so it would be everyone involved with HDCP although that's probably all the same people....

I have to agree. Case in pont; DVI when it was first out and non-HDCP never had these problems.
Javry

For anyone who cares here's the contact info. Be polite and you'll probably get better results.

Mark Holt
Vice President
(757) 564-8070 (Voice)
(818) 693-6923 (Mobile)
(757) 564-6826 (Fax)
mholt @ sfc.sanyo (dot) com

You are both correct it is an HDCP issue. HDMI could work without HDCP as with DVI to HDMI. I think if they get a few class action suites they could drop the whole HDCP thing as Sony was forced to do with their copy protection virus on CD's This whole HDCP thing is the fault of the Digital Copright Act that the film companies pushed to pass. They may regret it in the long run if it becomes to difficult for the average consumer to use the advances in technonogy caused by the law. They also may regret it if those who bought sets without HDCP find it impossible to us HD sources and HD disks without downgrading the picture. There are reports that Microsoft and even Sony may agree to a posponement of the HDCP upscailing flag. We sould keep up the protests.

I continue to remember DCCs and minidisks in the early 90's. The manufactures got distracted away from the core technology and allowed a bunch of add-ons to become main features....such as copy protection....which soon out-ran the core technology as the main focus. Well, everyone focused on it alright....and chose not to buy the technology. Not because it wasn't a good product...but because the core product when coupled with the add-ons represented a negative gain for the consumer. I think we have a serious problem when the advent of a technology is hamstrung and wounded by the stodginess of the industry that created it. I'd better shut up now........I feel a blog coming on:>)
Javry

This is hilarios. HDCP/DVI and HDMI will never be fully adopted as long as these isses continue. I hope they do continue. The HDCP interface should have NEVER been created in the first place. The more complaints and lawsuits the better! Component looks just as good and can do 1080p without handshaking anything. If it was me, I would sue.
That is just me.
Hey Naziwood, I hope you are reading this. If you continue down this HDMI path, you will lose.

HDCP has definitely been a mess. How do you prove who is not conforming with HDCP? It seems to me it could be Sanyo, Toshiba, both or neither of them that are at fault. When you dig deeper it could be their HDMI transmitter/receiver supplier or the actual HDCP specification that is flawed.

Anyone who has had HDCP issues with the Z2 please PM for contact information at Sanyo on this issue. I have a name, number and extension. You need to call this person and report the HDCP issues you have encountered. This is VERY important!

way t' go Matt....

People, the news is bad. New firmware 1.09 does nothing to fix the issues and further, Sanyo is telling us they will not test the Z2's with equipment known to be unable to connect via HDCP and that the Z2, in fact, does not have to be HDCP compliant.

Read about it here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7866815#post7866815)

:mad:

Wow. Screwy disclaimers in their owners manual:

"Should the HDCP specification change [you are screwed]". They don't even list which HDCP version it's supposedly compatible with, so how are you supposed to know which spec they followed and it was subsequently "changed" from? Maybe they are "compatible" with rev 0.9-- an unreleased version, in which case of course it's gonna change.

IANAL, but I think you have a legitimate legal case. Small claims court, perhaps, but class action is not out of the question.

NEWS! Dan at Sanyo just called. They purchased one of the Toshiba DVD players and after replacing some parts in the Z2 have it working via an HDMI to DVI cable. They tested some movies and it worked "perfectly" They are QCing my unit now and hope to Fed Ex it overnight so I can have it tomorrow.

So guys, looks like they kinda jumped the gun in sending back Z2's with 1.09 without testing them for you. I will report back what I find as soon as I try Z2 out.

This is very good news. If the Z2 works with my Toshiba as well as my Scientific Atlanta cable box then we have solution. One that requires Sanyo to replace parts, but who cares?!

I just got mine all realigned in the projector mount too - but down it will come to go back again!

Thanks Matt, and also to Dan and the gang at Sanyo!

OK. Dan called and said that they updated the firmware on one of the two Toshiba's they purchased and WHAM, it no longer works with the Z2. Meanwhile the other Toshiba does. So they are not sending my Z2 back.

I asked Dan to find out what firmware each deck has and to try the firmware upgrade on the one that no longer works again.

I'm bummed.

Hi guys, I have the Z2, actually I use component input. Next time I will buy a video processor like DVDO VP20 wich only has an HDMI (HDCP compliant) output.

Do you think I will have problems?

Where can I find more informations on DVD reader which could cause problems?
Or that flaw exist only when using HD DVD or blue ray?

Thanks.

3 Mentina, we will all know how to answer that question in a week or two. Here is the latest...


Dan just called. They tried the firmware 1.2 again and this time it worked. My Z2 is on the way, but I won't have it until Monday. :(

They are going to continue working on this and are coordinating efforts with Sanyo Japan.

I highly advise anyone who has had issues but not reported them to Sanyo yet to do so now! Call Dan! His number is 818-998-7322 x284.

Thanks Matt for doing all the leg work on this. You rock!!

Just got off the phone with Dan and he was very helpful.

Make sure you have the unit's serial number and your date of purchase before you call to save his time.

He told me that within the hour, his assistant would fax or email me instructions to return the Z2 unit to his office ASAP (at Sanyo's cost).

Again, thanks Matt. Guess I get to keep the HD-A1 after all!!!

OK ladies and germs. Here is what the invoice says:

Repairs: Replaced main board, AV board, LCD assembly and blue (IN) polarized glass. Added resistor on main board.

Wow. This isn't just a firmware upgrade.

So the first device I tried was my Scientific Atlanta 3250HD box running SARA 1.56.4.1 software and the SA box immediately crashed. It crashed three times, but finally after multiple tries it is running stable and I have picture via DVI.

Next I tried the Toshiba HD-DVD player HDMI cable to DVI plug to Z2 and it DID load the movie, KISS KISS, BANG BANG. Played around for a while. Hit stop. Started over. All fine. GREAT picture quality. Absolutely better than component.

Took the hd-dvd out and put the JARHEAD hd-dvd in and got HDMI error 1. Tried multiple times and it was always the same.

So the unit is powered down and I switched to another device for the time being while I right this. I have the Toshiba OFF and when I sit send on this message I will go and try again.

If it does not work I will power down the Z2, which I hate doing because you have top wait so damned long to turn it back on to ensure good bulb life. :(

UPDATE: Not looking good. Looking strange, actually. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang HD-DVD loads every time. But every other HD-DVD or DVD I try results in HDMI Error 1. Rebooting or powering off the Toshiba doesn't help.

I have shut the Z2 off and will start it up in 30 minutes. Waiting longer will drive me nuts. Frankly, I am fairly disappointed at the moment.

UPDATE #2: OK, more bad news. I power the projector on and pop Jarhead in and now it is working. I eject Jarhead and then put it back in and get HDMI error 1. I load Kiss Kiss Bang Bang and it works. WTF?!

Basically, right now the only guarantee you have for the Toshiba to work is when you first start everything up.As soon as you eject that first dvd, you are done. Game over, unless it is kiss kiss bang bang, in which case it always plays. :mad:

.......and I don't suppose it's at all possible to run the HD stuff through component? no....of course not. Scratch that. But it might be interesting to see what your PQ looks like with it compared to the almighty HDMI. Can you even do that with a HD player?
Javry

I'm patiently awaiting the return of my projector from Sanyo. It'll be interesting to compare notes and see if they did the same to mine that they did with yours. Sounds like they may be experimenting on us a bit. I wonder if I'll be sorry I sent it in for this "upgrade". More to come...

Update: Just got off the phone with Dan from Sanyo. They have not touched my projector yet. :mad: They received my Z2 on 6/28 so they've had it for exactly 2 weeks with no progress. I'm going through some serious withdrawls. No HDTV, no HD-DVD, no XBox360..

Ok, here's the interesting part. They flew someone from Japan specifically to work on this problem with Dan and the other technicians. They will be working on my projecter later today. Sounds like they have a few others in the queue as well.

Despite the fact that I'm a little pissed off that I've had to be without my projector for a while, Dan and crew are quite pleasant to talk with and are very understanding. And it appears that they are really taking this problem seriously and devoting some resources to fixing the problem.

More to come....

Considering Sanyo is an important member of HD DVD group, they should be working on this problem and resolving it. Sanyo projectors need to work well with HD-A1 ... both Tosh and Sanyo should be working on it. Call Tosh customer service as well and complain ...

Anyone has the Toshiba customer service number? I lost it.

Considering Sanyo is an important member of HD DVD group, they should be working on this problem and resolving it. Sanyo projectors need to work well with HD-A1 ... both Tosh and Sanyo should be working on it. Call Tosh customer service as well and complain ...

I'm glad someone brought this up. Shouldn't the requirement to recognize a downsteam HDCP component rest with the source.....since it dominates the handshake? If so, then the fault here would rest with the player and not the display.

I didnt know that there were more than 1 version of HDCP. I have a Sony 57wv600 with DVI/HDCP and use Toshiba 1.2 and havent had any problems. However I havent updated to 1.4 as I dont want anything to go wrong.

I'm glad someone brought this up. Shouldn't the requirement to recognize a downsteam HDCP component rest with the source.....since it dominates the handshake? If so, then the fault here would rest with the player and not the display.
It really depends on the problem. What if Sanyo is not properly using the content encryption keys, the voltage levels are too low, or there is a missing step in the negotiation? What can Toshiba do about it? I'm just playing devil's advocate. There are some problems that are on display side and others are on the source side. Without knowing further what the problem is, it is difficult to say who is responsible.

It really depends on the problem. What if Sanyo is not properly using the content encryption keys, the voltage levels are too low, or there is a missing step in the negotiation? What can Toshiba do about it? I'm just playing devil's advocate. There are some problems that are on display side and others are on the source side. Without knowing further what the problem is, it is difficult to say who is responsible.

well...I agree. But wouldn't those problems be evident to some extent while using others upstream sources as well......... or while using alternative connections? If I understand things right, this problem happens only when an otherwise well put together PJ gets connected to this specific HDMI/HDCP source......or am I missing something?

well...I agree. But wouldn't those problems be evident to some extent while using others upstream sources as well......... or while using alternative connections? If I understand things right, this problem happens only when an otherwise well put together PJ gets connected to this specific HDMI/HDCP source......or am I missing something?

I think the question is how compliant are the source & target to the specs. Remember there are always some grey areas in specs.

For example lets take a source S and a target T. If S works with most targets but not T and T works with most sources but not S, who is at fault ? In practice I think some sources are more forgiving than others ... and HD-A1 is probably not as forgiving ....

Ofcourse, if the incompatibility is because of the difference in interpretation of the specs ... then neither are really at fault.

well...I agree. But wouldn't those problems be evident to some extent while using others upstream sources as well......... or while using alternative connections? If I understand things right, this problem happens only when an otherwise well put together PJ gets connected to this specific HDMI/HDCP source......or am I missing something?
Really, the more complex the protocol, the more artificial situations I can create to match the observed behavior pointing blame at Toshiba, Sanyo, or both. Without more info it is hard to tell who is at fault. HDMI/HDCP has a lot of moving parts with timing involved. I've debugged enough of this stuff that I never make assumptions where the fault lies because it usually ends up slowing down the diagnosis.

the es place to start complaining to is the people who designed the HDCP standard. You can argue that their inability to make this "mandatory" technology work has caused you financial loss in that you had to buy a new projector or pay to have it modified for this. If the product (HDCP) does not work as advertised (allowing secure content to be displayed on your HDCP compliant display) then it is "defective" the manufacturer is required by law to correct this. Since it's not the CE manufacturer's fault (they used what was given to them) they are burned just as bad. If you make enough noise the CE boys aren't going to want to eat the cost and will probably help lean on the HDCP camp.

Go to the source.

For the projector specifically. If it doesn't allow the device to work because of an HDCP compatibility problem, then it's not HDCP compliant. You can sue for false advertising, fraud, and financial loss. If you have a really crooked attorney he can TRY mental anguish, but good luck on that. They are required to make it compliant. However, if the way HDCP is wriyyren is causing ths problem then the CE camp gets a free walk since they have nothing to do with that. If it is their specific implementation then it is them and not HDCP.

It can still be either side. Obviously A1 had HDCP issues with other displays hence 1.4 was released. In that case it wasn't the displays problem but the A1. All we know they have more bugs to flesh out. I'm coming to the defense here a bit with Sanyo as imo they got a bad deal with a Warranty situation on the projector forum and still that is brought up. And then I look at the title of this thread (Sanyo Salm) and then read the content here to see what is really up and imo it doesn’t match (anymore at least).

They have users units in-house trying to figure out what is up here. That doesn't sound at all like a complete washing of their hands. And all we know they are chasing ghosts in the A1 and not in the Z2. I also come to their defense as I did use their Warranty service on my Z2 a little over 2 years ago and it couldn't have ever gone better. Fedex both ways on their dime, 4-day turnaround, problem fixed, haven’t had one since. The person working on my unit called me and we talked and he gave me his number. So sure there is always a horror story no matter the CE, but what I got from Sanyo when I need them was A1 all the way.

With that said I still thank Matt and others for working this as it may someday benefit me, I'll send Matt a personal thank you check if his work actually results in my Z2 working with DVI and a A1. Yes you can quote me on that. But I also will state Sanyo hasn't hung up on anyone and seems to be working the problem...

Tomorrow is bonus day and I’ll be first going DTV HD-DVR then next up HD DVD… Then at that time my projector will have a much more on-time. I refuse to use the projector for SD TV. But with both of those and OTA, I think I’ll be able to be HD all of the time in the Entertainment room…

Well said. What needs to be added to that is that nothing happened with Sanyo until some emails were sent to higher ups. Once I and a few others did that 48 hours later Sanyo's attitude changed.

My Z2 still does not work perfectly with the SA 3250HD box. The communication frequently breaks down and the 3250 will lock up and then reboot over and over until it can talk to the Z2 again. VERY annoying. It happens sometimes when you do something as simple as change a channel. :(

1.4 firmware actually made the Toshiba's connection worse with the Z2.

I spoke to Dan from Sanyo this afternoon. They will be doing a firmware and hardware upgrade to my Z2 and I should have it back by Tuesday. According to Dan both parties are to blame for "not playing by the same rules" when HDCP was first implemented. Dan assured me my modified Z2 should have no problems connecting with other devices (like the forthcoming BD players) provided they "play by the rules".

Toshiba is well aware of the HDCP issue and are actively working on correcting the problem at their end. Point is, both the Z2 and the A1 need to be modified before they can play well together.

Dan also told me if further modifications are required after he ships my unit back, that he will contact me and make arrangements to have my Z2 FedEx'ed back at Sanyo's expense.

I for one, am most impressed with Sanyo's customer service and would gladly purchase from Sanyo again. Maybe Sanyo needed some prodding, but at least they admitted the problem and are actively correcting the problem. Major kudos to Dan et. al. at Sanyo -- thank you :)

I spoke to Dan from Sanyo this afternoon. They will be doing a firmware and hardware upgrade to my Z2 and I should have it back by Tuesday. According to Dan both parties are to blame for "not playing by the same rules" when HDCP was first implemented. Dan assured me my modified Z2 should have no problems connecting with other devices (like the forthcoming BD players) provided they "play by the rules".

Toshiba is well aware of the HDCP issue and are actively working on correcting the problem at their end. Point is, both the Z2 and the A1 need to be modified before they can play well together.

Dan also told me if further modifications are required after he ships my unit back, that he will contact me and make arrangements to have my Z2 FedEx'ed back at Sanyo's expense.

I for one, am most impressed with Sanyo's customer service and would gladly purchase from Sanyo again. Maybe Sanyo needed some prodding, but at least they admitted the problem and are actively correcting the problem. Major kudos to Dan et. al. at Sanyo -- thank you :)


I couldnt agree more. I got my A1 yesterday and I connected it to the Z2 and I of course got the HDMI Error 1.

I called Sanyo today. pressed option 2 and not 2 seconds later I had Dan answer the phone... having read this thread, I knew who I had on the phone and I was impressed by the politeness and positive attitude to get this issue fixed and handled for me as quickly as possible....

It might have taken Sanyo to listen but other companies sometimes still dont care (Sony anyone...), even after they find out that this might be due to an issue on their side...

Will fedex it next Monday or so. Hope I will get it back soon...

I had the same call today as SKnight1 did. Can't wait for Monday/Tuesday to roll round and try out the HDMI/DVI link!

Major "props" to Sanyo!

Just remember that the upgrade they are doing to the Z2's does not fix the problem. It does allow a sometimes workable handshake with the 1.2 Toshiba firmware, but NOT the 1.4.

Do not upgrade to 1.4 firmware.

Sanyo need a final solution and yesterday Dan said they are working with Toshiba on this.

What I think it comes down to is the Z2 is simply not HDCP compliant and it will take major work on Sanyo's part to make it so.

Are these issues fixed in the Z3 and Z4 already? I have a Z3 and am hesitant to buy an A1.

If the Z4 does not have these issues, perhaps Sanyo should just upgrade Z2 owners to Z4. Seems more cost effective, and more customer satisfying.

Are these issues fixed in the Z3 and Z4 already? I have a Z3 and am hesitant to buy an A1.

If the Z4 does not have these issues, perhaps Sanyo should just upgrade Z2 owners to Z4. Seems more cost effective, and more customer satisfying.

I like the way you think...

Are these issues fixed in the Z3 and Z4 already? I have a Z3 and am hesitant to buy an A1.

If the Z4 does not have these issues, perhaps Sanyo should just upgrade Z2 owners to Z4. Seems more cost effective, and more customer satisfying.


From my understanding, the Z3 and Z4 do not have the HDCP issues that are inherent in the Z2 -- you should be OK in purchasing an A1.


Of course it would be nice if Sanyo swapped my Z2 for a Z4............ :D

I'd settle for a Z3.

I got my projector back from Sanyo a couple of weeks ago. Still getting HDMI errors and need to monkey with disconnecting cables and turning equipment on/off to get it to work.

Was playing some Ghost Recon this weekend when the projector went *POP*. At first, I assume it was the bulb, but the yellow change bulb indicator is not lit. When I press power, the red light turns to green for a few seconds, then starts flashing red to indicate that it is turning itself off. Then back to solid red again.

Don't know if this is related to the "upgrade" or not. I have a call in to Dan. Both to report that I'm still seeing HDMI errors, and to discuss this newest problem.

Anyone else who sent their projector in for the HDMI upgrade had a similar problem?

Anyone else who sent their projector in for the HDMI upgrade had a similar problem?

I received my Z2 back from Sanyo a few weeks ago as well. I *still* can not connect the Z2 to the A1 via HDMI. I am hoping the next A1 firmware upgrade in the offing would address this issue. If you speak to Dan, maybe he has more information as to what the Toshiba engineers are up to.

In regards to your other problem, my Z2 hasn't gone POP yet. I must admit I probably only have about 30 hours on it since getting it back from Sanyo.

Keep us posted on how things work out for you and best of luck.

Talked to Dan yesterday afternoon.

He said my lamp is blown. Not related to the repairs/upgrade. So I need a new bulb. He was adamant that I buy a replacement lamp only from an authorized dealer.

Anyone out there have any recommendations on where to buy a lamp for a reasonable price from an authorized sanyo dealer?

BTW - I don't know if I'm misreading Dan's comments yesterday, and maybe I just caught him on a bad day, but I get the impression that it's not going very well and that they don't have this clearly figured out. I also get the impression that not that many Z2 owners have sent their projectors in. From my perspective, the only way this is going to get fixed is if ALL Z2 owners calling in their problems and keeping the pressure on Sanyo.

I'm really not happy at the moment because I've had the HD-A1 too long to return it, and it is evident that this problem may not be fully fixed unless Sanyo continues to work on this. Makes me nervous that I flushed $500.

Your A1 may outlast your Z2 so it's not a total flush. Do you get good results using component on HD DVD's? IMO that bulb issue would damper me and I would really get back with them on that, they just overhaul your system, you get it right back and pow your bulb goes out? I dunno about that one. How about tell them since they can’t fix it and they said it was compliant (never mind bringing the A1 into this one) you guys can pick up the cost for the bulb.

No one wants to send their projector in, it seems, because there is not a real fix.

No one wants to send their projector in, it seems, because there is not a real fix.

To be blunt, many imo were waiting on your guys’ results (again I thank you for taking the time) and well the results aren't promising so why send it in? I'm still keeping my eye out for an A1 upgrade or Gen1.5 (yes that fabled rumor unit) to see if it is corrected from that end.

IMO HDCP/HDMI is a real mess. I could use a lot worse names but the standards of it all are bush league at best and it's supposed to represent the latest and greatest. It’s stuff possibly class-action was made for…

Currently there is Z2 on eBay going for $580 with 8 bids which is more than the cost of a new bulb.

Yes you do get very good PQ from the A1 via components, but you can't upscale SD-DVDs through component :(

When I spoke to Dan several weeks ago, he told me both Sanyo and Toshiba need to fix the problem. I am under the assumption (hoping!!) that Sanyo did their part and am waiting for Toshiba to release a new firmware version to correct the HDMI/HDCP/DVI problem on their end. It is my understanding that we (Z2 owners) are not the only ones having handshaking issues with the A1.

Do you get good results using component on HD DVD's?

Yes, BUT, there are two problems with this. First, there is no guarantee that studios will continue to support component without forcing a down conversion, which is unacceptable. The second and larger problem for me is that I have too many component devices so that either I need to buy a new reciever to support them all, or I have to buy a quality switcher. So, I really NEED this HDMI hook-up to work, or it's going to cost me a bunch of money.


IMO that bulb issue would damper me and I would really get back with them on that, they just overhaul your system, you get it right back and pow your bulb goes out? I dunno about that one.

Thanks for the comments. Seems reasonable to given that I probably didn't put more than 15 hours on the projector between their upgrade and the bulb blowing.

By the way, I never have figured out how to tell how many hours you've used the projector. I was under the impression that there was a way to find this in the menu system, but I never could find it. Anyone know?

Currently there is Z2 on eBay going for $580 with 8 bids which is more than the cost of a new bulb.

Yes you do get very good PQ from the A1 via components, but you can't upscale SD-DVDs through component :(

When I spoke to Dan several weeks ago, he told me both Sanyo and Toshiba need to fix the problem. I am under the assumption (hoping!!) that Sanyo did their part and am waiting for Toshiba to release a new firmware version to correct the HDMI/HDCP/DVI problem on their end. It is my understanding that we (Z2 owners) are not the only ones having handshaking issues with the A1.

For sure we are not the only ones with handshaking issues. That is the BS part of HDCP, it's like there are different versions but they were undisclosed or untested. If your part is fixed on the Z2 then we get to sit back and wait I guess for new HD DVD updates/players.

For the upconvert issue you have my permission in your case to backup your DVD's for the sole purpose to get the upconvert benefit on the backups playback! :)

By the way, I never have figured out how to tell how many hours you've used the projector. I was under the impression that there was a way to find this in the menu system, but I never could find it. Anyone know?


Supposedly you just hold the power button on the remote for 25-30 seconds and it appears on screen as the projector powers on. Haven't tried it myself, but that's what I've read.

Just a quick note to say I just sold my Sanyo PLV-70, and upgraded to the PLV-75 which IS HDCP compliant and it works perfectly with all of the older DVI or HDMI outputs from DVD players back in the old days, AND all of the new HD-DVD players that just come out last month.

Sanyo did a great job on the PLV-75 and the PLV-80. They have many upgraded features, better remote design, and flawless HDCP detection. They also work with a new Zektor 5 input HMDI switcher and detect all of the new copy protection code in about 1-2 seconds when switched. Most projectors built BEFORE Jan 2006 seem to not be HDCP compliant.
If you're not ready to upgrade, you can still use the component outputs until that day comes...

Flashcube

Supposedly you just hold the power button on the remote for 25-30 seconds and it appears on screen as the projector powers on. Haven't tried it myself, but that's what I've read.

Thanks. Too bad I didn't know how to do this before my bulb blew!! Now I don't know how loudly to complain to Sanyo because if my bulb had 2,000+ hours I have no room to complain. But if it was only like 700 hours, I'd be screaming like hell.

So before any of you others send your units in to Sanyo, I would recommend recording how many lamp hours you have logged in case you have the same problem I had. Also would be interesting to know how many hours they use in their testing/updating process.

I won't send my Z2 back to them until there is another update to be had. Right now I have the latest upgrade, so why send it in again?

I may just sell it. I am leaning that way, despite the massive loss I will take on it.

Yes, BUT, there are two problems with this. First, there is no guarantee that studios will continue to support component without forcing a down conversion, which is unacceptable.
Realistically though with the PS3 coming out with the base version lacking HDMI, that pretty much guarantees studios will not enable ICT for the next few years, at least on the BluRay side and if BluRay doesn't do it, neighther will HD-DVD.

First, there is no guarantee that studios will continue to support component without forcing a down conversion, which is unacceptable.

With the PS3 base unit & xbox 360 not supporting HDMI, it is almost gauranteed that ICT won't be widely enabled for another 4 or 5 years.

Boy, you'd a thought Sanyo would've been prepared for this. They're not small potatoes.

I hope the film companies get the message that HDCP has too many problems. I would love to see a class action suite against the film companies by those who bought HD TV's without HDMI and HDCP or from the people who have problems with HDCP.

Has anyone tried the Toshiba via HDMI with the Sanyo PLV-Z4? I'm thinking about purchasing it sometime in the near future, but will hold off if it isn't compatible with the HD-A1.

^You're good. Check out the thread "HD-DVD owners - what TV are you using?" here. It lists that being used there and I've read many posts where X4 onwers are getting great results.

The HD-A1 works perfectly with HDMI on the Z4. I had a Z2 but upgraded to the Z4 when I bought my Toshiba player. The Z4 is a much better projecter. Much better contrast. The extra contrast paired with the extra resolution of HD makes for a sight to behold. I also bought the Panny SA-XR57 receiver for about $300 and can now connect to it via HDMI. It's a great sounding little reciever and I seldom have any handshake issues. If you want a good looking and sounding home theater but are on somewhat of a budget, this a great little combo that I highly recommend.

Thanks for the info, guys!

I have a Z-2, and I've had no issues with it and the HD-A1. However, I am running the A1 through a DVDO DV-30 video scaler.

I hope the film companies get the message that HDCP has too many problems. I would love to see a class action suite against the film companies by those who bought HD TV's without HDMI and HDCP or from the people who have problems with HDCP.

great minds thinking alike.....

anybody using the A1 with the sanyo PLV70? Are these bad handshakes the same for the 70?

I have a Z-2, and I've had no issues with it and the HD-A1. However, I am running the A1 through a DVDO DV-30 video scaler.

just as a followup on this. i have my HD-A1 going though my Pioneer VSX-82 HDMI A/V Receiver and the HDMI out of the receiver hooked up to with a Monoprice HDMI->DVI cable to my Z2. It works great, i have never had a problem, i was a little shocked at first, i had to unplug my component cables just to make sure the image was going through the DVI port.

I guess it is because my HD-A1 negotiates with the receiver and the receiver act as a go between and it negotiates with the projector. I can upscale SD DVD's, or watch HD-DVD with the one HDMI->DVI cable.

I guess the projector works when it is fed through an HDCP device but not when connected directly to HD-A1.

Craig

Why don't you guys just do what others are doing on the CRT front projection forum and get an external HDMI to VGA converter ?

I just decided I was sick of this limitation and got a service authorization from Sanyo -- but now I'm re-reading this thread and there seems to be VERY LITTLE teason to send it in, and the high likelihood of damage occurring, if I do (wear on the bulb, wear on the unit due to servicing, shipping wear, etc.). I take it no one has actually had a unit fixed by Sanyo, right?

Got my Pearl yesterday. The Sony had no trouble with XA1 hdmi or my HTPC (MCE) using DVI to hdmi. Did not matter if the display was on before or not, always reconnected.

Sony can suck eggs on proprietary media formats but my lord can they make a projector. This thing is unbelieveable.

UPDATE: Not looking good. Looking strange, actually. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang HD-DVD loads every time. But every other HD-DVD or DVD I try results in HDMI Error 1. Rebooting or powering off the Toshiba doesn't help.

I have shut the Z2 off and will start it up in 30 minutes. Waiting longer will drive me nuts. Frankly, I am fairly disappointed at the moment.

UPDATE #2: OK, more bad news. I power the projector on and pop Jarhead in and now it is working. I eject Jarhead and then put it back in and get HDMI error 1. I load Kiss Kiss Bang Bang and it works. WTF?!

Basically, right now the only guarantee you have for the Toshiba to work is when you first start everything up.As soon as you eject that first dvd, you are done. Game over, unless it is kiss kiss bang bang, in which case it always plays. :mad:


I had the same problem with my Optoma EP739 Projector... I had to turn on "Source Lock" so the projector with stay on the DVI input.. By default most projectors scan all inputs when no signal is received.. During the loading process of HD-DVD, the player connects, disconnects, and connects again when switching between the menu and the start of the movie..

Give this a shot if you can..

Late..

My guess is that HDCP/HDMI is designed to NOT work! By this I mean that anything that goes wrong causes it to shut down. It is not fault-tolerant!

The prime directive is to protect the studios content from possible theft, rather than to work for the honest consumer.


Copy protection in general is like this. It penalizes the people that pay for it, and doesn't really affect piracy at all. I have thousands of dollars of music and other software that uses the Internet registration schemes pioneered by Microsoft. It makes moving to a new computer, changing your email address, or even upgrading your hardware or reformating your hard disk a potential nightmare, because it may break thousands of dollars of software. Now we're going to see the same thing with movies, since the goal is to have everything have copy protection, monitors/tvs, even hard disks. Copy protection is a very ugly thing for the paying consumer.

For clarity's sake. Is it a fact that when mating the Z2 with the HD-A1, it will only work via component cable connectivity?
Since HDMI seems to not be a reliable connection, component seems to be the smartest choice for trouble-free performance.
Or am I completely wrong on this subject??

You are correct.

mine works flawlessly through DVI but only going through my Pioneer HDMI receiver with an HDMI --> DVI cable.

What PIO receiver? Must be doing the HDCP handshake with the player. That's excellent.

Nathan,

exactly. i assume the Pioneer VSX-81 negotiates with the HD-A1 and then also handshakes with the Z2 and acts as a go between.. works flawlessly, i was very surprised.

Craig

Let's set the record straight. PS3 works perfectly with Z2 using a HDMI to DVI cable. There is no HDCP handshake issue or any other Black or White or color issue. Toshiba dos not acknowledge the problem and refuses to fix the HDCP bug in the firmware releases for the A1.

Propel,

Did you try a movie or you just played games?

I don't think there is HDCP encryption when playing games.

Pitou!

Yes, I played 3 Blu Ray and several SD movies on PS3. No issue. PS3 allows me to choose RGB color space (which is a DVI standard) using the HDMI output. Nice.

Toshiba A1 doesn't let me play anything at all from the HDMI output to Z2.

It is not Sanyo's fault after all. Both my Z5 and Z2 work flawlessly with PS3. Sanyo had replaced my Z2's mainboard for free and still could not resolve the issue. Toshiba refuses to acknowledge the fact that the problem even exists. We should all demand a refund from Toshiba. Toshiba even blamed the black crush issue to the display unit. LOL!!!

Has anybody tried using a Toshiba A2 with the Sanyo Z2? I wonder if the A2 fixes HDMI problem. If this is the case, that would be one solution for Z2 owners...

Has anybody tried using a Toshiba A2 with the Sanyo Z2? I wonder if the A2 fixes HDMI problem. If this is the case, that would be one solution for Z2 owners...

Yea, tosh could at least replace the A1s with A2s for people. The A2 seems MUCH more tolerant about HDMI stuff (people turning on displays then player, player then display to no effect).

Has anyone used an Oppo 970 with a Z2? I would love to use this player to upconvert (as well as do SACD, DVD-A, HDCD, etc) but I am afraid of the HDCP issues raising their ugly head if I connect it with HDMI to DVI.

I think the finickey HDMI output on the A1 is something we will have to live with. I am darn glad it works with my projector, I am darn glad it works with my HDMI / HDMI switching AVR as well.


I had a devil of a time with switchers though, none would work period. UUHHGG I think the long run to my projector prevented the switchers I tried from working.

All this is defiently display / player combo dependent though. So where does the issue actually come from?

player? display? cable(s)? adapter(s) switcher(s)?
My guess is a little of all the above.

Has anybody tried using a Toshiba A2 with the Sanyo Z2? I wonder if the A2 fixes HDMI problem. If this is the case, that would be one solution for Z2 owners...
I just purchased a Toshiba A2....It works perfect with the Sanyo Z2 going into the DVI connection. The only issue is it won't upconvert standard DVD's thru the DVI. I hope Toshiba comes out with a firmware that will repair that problem.

Just purchased the sanyo plv-z5. Hooked it up via HDMI to the Scientific Atlanta 8300 HD DVR. Will NOT make the handshake unless I reboot the cable box. Once I reboot the cable box, turn it off then on, the handshake is made. If I turn off either the projector or the cable box after use and then turn it on at a later time, the hand shake is not made and I ahev to repeat the process. No HDCP error message when this happens, just snow on the screen.

S-Video, Composite video all work fine.

Called cable company, who I work for (they gave me the time of day) and said they know of no issues with the scientific Atlanta 8300 cable box. They suggested contacting Sanyo.

On a second note my samsung hd lcd tv has no issues connecting/handshaking with the hdmi cable to the SA 8300 HD.

Any ideas, others with same issue?

SA boxes are notorious for being a bitch with HDCP handshake.

hi, i have just read the whole thread on this issue with the Z2.
i live in the uk and have bought a tosh hd e1 (equivalent to A2) and connected with dvi-d (z2) to hdmi(tosh hd e1), and guess what, it came on for about 1 min then lost signal for good. (poor handshake).
so i turned to this forum for more advice. what should i do here in the uk. should i ring sanyo uk and get z2 upgraded?
my tosh hd e1 has had no firmware update yet.
at first i thought the problem was that the z2 is dvi-i out and that i used a dvi-d to hdmi cable?
it seems i may be one of the first here in the uk with this problem!
ps: i was very impressed with the pq (for 1 minute!)
:confused:

would appreciate any advice.
thanks

updated firmware. still no signal??

check this thread as well: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9727523#post9727523

also, it looks like it will not work. Sanyo does not provide further comment besides "tough luck with HDMI" for this unit. several handshakes with other components dont work, some do (e.g. PS3..)

It would really be helpful if Z2 owners would list any HDMI devices they have that DO work properly with the Z2.

I've got the SA 8300 cable box and the LG BH100 BD/HD combo player working with my Z2 via an Octava 5x1 HDMI switch. I did have problems with the 8300 plugged directly into the Z2, but they seem to get along just fine with the switch in the middle.