Greywolf, thanks for the link.

Can you recommend a source for a suitable splitter - Sonora don't seem to have any 5-2300 in their catalogue.

Does the 5 LNB Dish only come with four main connections?

Several years ago before I got the 3 LNB dish, I was using a Recognition multi-switch to get four lines from the main two and I was having problems with either the signal strength or quality. Are the multi-switches better these days? I really would like 5 if not 6 lines for DVRs.

My installer fitted a Zinwell WB68 to my Phase 111 dish, which supplies 8 outputs.
I'm having an AT9 dish installed over the weekend - I'm hoping that he will leave me an extra WB68 so that I can gain even more outputs.

Greywolf, thanks for the link.

Can you recommend a source for a suitable splitter - Sonora don't seem to have any 5-2300 in their catalogue.Glad to help. Read my sig line. ;) Just do a search to find 5-2300 or 40-3000 or 5-3000MHz splitters. They all should work equally well.

Are you getting the LIL in Redmond now? Thanks, a lot?


Only Fox and ABC currently, I get zero signal on NBC and CBS.

Only Fox and ABC currently, I get zero signal on NBC and CBS.

At least you will be in luck when you get the installation, since NBC and CBS are the only ones so far carried by DTV (unfortunately I can receive them OTA but not ABC or Fox).

sorry if this has been asked already but does the AT9 mounting bracket use the exact same hole location as the 3 lnb? Thanks.

sorry if this has been asked already but does the AT9 mounting bracket use the exact same hole location as the 3 lnb? Thanks.No. The AT9 bracket, bolts and mast are larger.

thanks greywolf. I knew you would come through for me as usual.

One of the D* Customer Retention reps. said they will roll out a smaller dish to use instead of teh AT9 by the end of this year.

Greywolf:

Quick question please. Can the Zinwell WB68 multiswitch be installed outdoors unprotected (I live in Northern Viriginia) or does it need to be either encased or indoors? Thanks in advance.

The AT9 weighs aboy 32 lbs and. can be mounted to a wall stud by the mast with 2 monopoles added for kind of a tripod effect. Heck, I have a 27" tube type TV I can barely lift mounted on a wall single tube wall rack. Only the Zinwell WB68 multiswitch should be used for Ka band equipment.

Greywolf,

Is the polarity locker really necessary when using 2 WB68s? On the DirecTV forum you (or someone else with same nick) describe running 2 multiswitches in parallel just with splitters. What advantage does the polarity locker have?

Link to DirecTV forum post: http://forums.directv.com/pe/action/forums/displaypost?postID=10158891

Last spring I got a letter from D* announcing they were going to take away my DNS since I am in an MPEG4 market (DFW). I recall that the effective date for the shutoff was May, but I could be off by a month. Today I got another letter saying the same thing, except the new date is Nov 1.

The WB68 looks to be an enclosed unit and the usual precautions regarding O-ring compression connectors and silicone compound should apply. I haven't seen anything in print about it though. The polarity locker is recommended by DirecTV in case the user takes some receivers offline and the LNBs don't get enough power. Except in that case with long runs, one port power passing splitters or with copper coated steel cable, it's probably a belt and suspenders approach. It's a great solution for those who complain about the WB68 being a passive unit though.

I am getting a 5-LNB dish (is that the AT9 everyone is referring to?) and HR20 installed on October 7. My previous two appointments were cancelled.

I will have this HR20 DVR with two lines and a normal DirecTV receiver upstairs. I may want to add a third TV in the future. Do I need this 6x8 multiswitch everyone is referring to, or is that only for people with many, many TVs? Will the tech have everything I need? Thanks.

I am getting a 5-LNB dish (is that the AT9 everyone is referring to?) and HR20 installed on October 7. My previous two appointments were cancelled.

I will have this HR20 DVR with two lines and a normal DirecTV receiver upstairs. I may want to add a third TV in the future. Do I need this 6x8 multiswitch everyone is referring to, or is that only for people with many, many TVs? Will the tech have everything I need? Thanks.

The AT-9 dish has four outputs and since there will be one spare line, you won't need a switch to add a standard receiver. If one needs more than four cable connections then the multiswitch is required. The Zinwell WB68 has 8 outputs and Spaun is coming out with models for 12 and 16 outputs.

On Wednedsday, I had 5 LNB installed and 4x8 multiswithch installed. The HR20 was already up and running on one connection but now I have two to that unit as well as three other receivers with one being older HD model and one being non HD DVR.

Installer could not mount the AT9 at the same place on the side of the house due to its size and weight. He dug a whole near the current dish, poured concrete and inserted the pole. He could not get a signal for some of the satellites. He dug a second hole and still could not get all the signals. He ended up having to put it on top of my roof which gave a 98% signal strength.

So now I have eight lines which he originally connected wrong and took some time to figure out. He connected some of the lines from the new satellite to the lines coming from the old dish.

We go to the HR20-700 receiver now with the second line connected to Tuner #2. The receiver shows 0% for the second turner. He checks the cable, it's hot or has a signal. Resets the receiver three times, switches the cables several times but the second turner never acquires the signal. Bad Tuner/Receiver. So call DIRECTV to second me a new unit.

I would like to say that I was pleasemtly surprised that the multiswitch did not seem to degrade the signal to the receivers and the quality of the resolution to the TVs but I am a little disappointed that the Atlanta Locals and other channels picked up by the new dish are not as good as I thought they would be. My receiver shows the signals for like ABC and NBC coming in as or being displayed in 480P. Would that be correct? I have the receiver display setting to "native".

I am planning to install the AT-9 dish. Will my Spaun 5x16 multiswitch still work? I live in an area where the OTA reception is poor so I do not need an OTA feed.

Any news on the ATSC tuners in the HR20-700? Are they active yet?

mine was not active as of this morning.

mine was not active as of this morning.


Thanks. :(

I am planning to install the AT-9 dish. Will my Spaun 5x16 multiswitch still work? I live in an area where the OTA reception is poor so I do not need an OTA feed.It might for now and it might not depending on what Ka band signals are in your area. It definitely won't work long term. It cuts off satellite signals below about 900MHz and the lower Ka band occupies 250-750MHz. It probably will have difficulty with the upper Ka band at 1600-2150MHz.

FYI there's a new Zinwell powered 16-way multiswitch for Ka/Ku satellites (the AT-9 dish). It is supposedly available but I haven't seen any reports of anyone actually using it yet.

Question about the new satellite positions: I currently have MPEG-2 HD service with the dish positioned where it can just pick up the 3 required sats. The dish is carefully positioned to shoot through some tall trees and over others to get these 3. Are the Spaceway sats for MPEG-4 positioned with or between the older 3 sats? Or are they lower or to one side of the current sats? I don't have any place to put a dish that can pick up lower sats or ones to either side of the current set; I have good shots at the two original sat locations, but the MPEG-2 HD sat required careful siting.

I'm trying to figure out if it's even worth me ordering the MPEG-4 upgrade, or if I should just bite the bullet and switch to cable now.

You are currently seeing (from left to right as you look at them, assuming you are North of the equator!!) the 101, 110 and 119 satellites. The new ones are at 103 (actually 102.8) (between the 101 and 110) and at 99 (actually 99.2), which is slightly to the left of 101. The elevation will depend on where you are located.

To get a more accurate location, direction and elevation go to http://www.lyngsat.com/tracker/america.html

FYI there's a new Zinwell powered 16-way multiswitch for Ka/Ku satellites (the AT-9 dish). It is supposedly available but I haven't seen any reports of anyone actually using it yet.

Spaun has 12 and 16-way powered multiswitches for use with the AT-9.

FYI there's a new Zinwell powered 16-way multiswitch for Ka/Ku satellites (the AT-9 dish). It is supposedly available but I haven't seen any reports of anyone actually using it yet.
Last I heard.....Zinwell had/has pulled it off their website; apparently some tech issue(s) still to be ironed out....it WAS posted for a short time.....price is (or expected to be) ~US$190 + S/H....

I know we got this for HD MPEG 4 channels but I am pleasantly suprised at SD quality. With my HR 10-250 SD channels were unwatchable on my Panasonic 900 front PJ.
Anyone know if R-24 remote works with HR 10-250 ?

Thank you

DrA

Have the Zinwell WB616 but haven't had time to install it yet. The hold up from Directv was that originally it was not powered. The new one is a powered one. It was originally priced at $190 but because of the revisions needed to make it a powered unit, the cost is now $250. Now approved by Directv.

Have the Zinwell WB616 but haven't had time to install it yet. The hold up from Directv was that originally it was not powered. The new one is a powered one. It was originally priced at $190 but because of the revisions needed to make it a powered unit, the cost is now $250. Now approved by Directv.
knoxbh....
Thanx for the info on the -616..... :)

Is there a place I can call or website that will allow me to upgrade my HD DirecTV receiver to the new mpeg4 one?? I want to make sure I don't have to pay to upgrade. Is DirectTV covering the upgrade to the new receiver? Sorry if this has been answered in the forum before but I couldn't find the answers.

Thanks! :)

This is a first time post for me and if this has been covered before I apologize as I can’t seem to find the answers through the search or after spending hours going through the topics.
Here is my situation, early this summer I had the AT-9 5 LNB dish installed by D*. About a month ago I started having problems receiving the HD Washington DC channels. After many calls to CS, a replaced H-20 (600) and three home service calls by “Qualified” tech’s, each who says the last tech did not know what they were doing, I have decided the last guy on my roof this past Friday was enough.
While he was “tweaking” and I as talking to him he stated to me that he had achieved a stronger signal by aiming the dish at the 101 satellite and that everything else would “fall into place.” This is the last time I will hear the statement, “other installers had no ideal of what they were doing.”
Prior to his “tweaking” I was able to receive at least the HD channels between 90 and 100, now I have nothing. :mad:
On the H-20 receiver my line up for satellites are: 101 (even transponders only, odds are at zero), 103 (14) (4 possible at zero), 110 (3 possible 8,10,12 at zero), 119 (transponders possible from 24-32 but only get signal from 28, 30 and 32) all other satellites/transponders show N/A.
I managed to find the AT-9 installer training videos and the installation manual via web searchs and I have also ordered the AcutracPro Satellite Meter.
What I am trying to find is the actual Tilt, Elevation and Azimuth angles so I can move the dish to a better location on my roof. I have the values from the H-20 as Tilt = 62, Elevation = 39 and Azimuth = 227 but I wanted to make sure I can trust these as I have read where others have had problems with the values from the H-20’s.
Zip code is 20653 and latitude/longitude for my location is 38.15N/076.27W.
Thanks for all help to verify these values or to provide correct ones.

“If you want it done right, you might well want to do it yourself.”

If you are getting 101 even but not odd, its not your dish aiming, its the wiring. Disconnect the 110/119 lnb from the main lnb by unplugging the two short cables, and see it you get all of 101 then. If so, replace the lines top to top, bottom to bottom and check again. Also make sure your receiver is set to use the 5 lnb dish. It sounds to me like you are getting the wrong voltages to the lnb. Might want to do that first, since you dont have to crawl up on the roof to do it.

If you are getting 101 even but not odd, its not your dish aiming, its the wiring. Disconnect the 110/119 lnb from the main lnb by unplugging the two short cables, and see it you get all of 101 then. If so, replace the lines top to top, bottom to bottom and check again. Also make sure your receiver is set to use the 5 lnb dish. It sounds to me like you are getting the wrong voltages to the lnb. Might want to do that first, since you dont have to crawl up on the roof to do it.

Thanks for the advice. But this had zero change on the results. Of note on my 110/119 lnb's, they connect from the bottom. From the orginal install they were connected as top to right and bottom to left. Just to check the possibility of wiring swaps I did reinstall them as top to left and bottom to right. This to did not change the results.
Reason why I believe the alignment is out was that while I was on the roof with him, I watched him adjusting the azimuth and elevation and nothing else. I am starting to believe that I misunderstood him or he misspoke and what he really did was tuned in the 110. I believe this because the signal strength prior to his adjustments would only run in around the mid 80's, now I'm seeing 97 on the 110 transponder 18.
Second, after watch the training video, which I asked him if he had seen these, his response was he watched about half, I can see that it's a little more complicated than attaching the meter and maximizing a signal on the 110. He never took any notes and performed any of the steps from the video.
I'm starting to think that I am in the wrong business and maybe I should change jobs to become a D* installer. Doesn't sound like they require much in the way of qualifications.

Ok, yea, because the 3 LNB dishes were rotated around 110, however, the AT9 dish rotates around 101, so you are probably correct. He probably aligned the dish up with the wrong satellite. If so, you shouldnt be able to get any of the channels on 101 at all, is that the case? If the dish is pointed at 110 for primary, there wont be any LNBs pointing at 101. If you can get any channels on 101, this theory is wrong, because you shouldnt see 101 at all if its pointed at 110. Let me know what you discover.

Is there a place I can call or website that will allow me to upgrade my HD DirecTV receiver to the new mpeg4 one?? I want to make sure I don't have to pay to upgrade. Is DirectTV covering the upgrade to the new receiver? Sorry if this has been answered in the forum before but I couldn't find the answers...
Maybe you may have been looking in the wrong places. This has been discussed at length in several threads, including this one (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=633324&page=11&pp=30) and this one (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=704067&page=12&pp=30).

Bottom line, different people get different deals. Sometimes it takes several calls to get one you are satisfied with. Most report better luck if they contact the customer retention department which seems to have more latitude in what they can offer than D*'s first level CSR's.

Good luck! :)

Ok, yea, because the 3 LNB dishes were rotated around 110, however, the AT9 dish rotates around 101, so you are probably correct. He probably aligned the dish up with the wrong satellite. If so, you shouldnt be able to get any of the channels on 101 at all, is that the case? If the dish is pointed at 110 for primary, there wont be any LNBs pointing at 101. If you can get any channels on 101, this theory is wrong, because you shouldnt see 101 at all if its pointed at 110. Let me know what you discover.
Davenlr,
Thanks for the advice and the thoughts. Your comments on the first post got me to thinking about what the tech was doing. At one point he had all the rg6 cables disconnected from the grounding block while he was doing the readings on his meter. That made me wonder if somehow he made a mistake in the reconnecting order.
What I did was used an old receiver from upstairs, turned the volume up on a tv, also involved the wife with this. I put the receiver into the test selection, Sat 101 transponder 18. Next I went out on the roof, labeled each side of the connections at the grounding block as 1-4 and then unhooked them all. First I took #1 and reconnected back to it's original location, I picked up all the same even transponders again. I next move it down to spot #2 without any signal. I continued this process for all connection points to see if things would change.
After this I reconnected back at position #1 and continued the same process with the #2 cable but on ae odd transponder. At connection point 3 I received a signal.
In the end #1 stayed at the same connection it was on, #2 moved to the #3 spot, #3 moved to the #4 spot and #4 moved up to the #2.
I now have all my channels and the local HD as well. I must also admit that even if the last tech did mismatch the connections I now believe that he truly did "tweak" the dish. I am now observing the strongest signals yet. Most of the SD transponders were running into the low 80's and the HD's in the mid 60's. Now I'm seeing the SD's near 98 and the HD's in the upper 80's and low 90's from the H-20 (600).
Once again thanks for the advice and help.
"One happy HD guy." :)

Yea, thats the way to do it. NOW, apply for a job with Ironwood, they sure need someone that knows how to connect an F connector. I cant believe this guy left your house without testing the receiver in your house. A meter outside does not always a picture inside give.

Glad you got it all going. I was driving home today, and someone had an old chair and a couch, and a triple LNB Phase III dish sitting on the curb. I snatched up the dish quick. Might come in handy since I am going to have to have two separate dishes in my AT9 installation, I thought Id see if I could mount the AT9's 110/119 arm on this dish somehow and save me the $99 buying a second AT9.

This is a fun hobby isnt it?

Davenlr,
Thanks for the advice and the thoughts. Your comments on the first post got me to thinking about what the tech was doing. At one point he had all the rg6 cables disconnected from the grounding block while he was doing the readings on his meter. That made me wonder if somehow he made a mistake in the reconnecting order.
What I did was used an old receiver from upstairs, turned the volume up on a tv, also involved the wife with this. I put the receiver into the test selection, Sat 101 transponder 18. Next I went out on the roof, labeled each side of the connections at the grounding block as 1-4 and then unhooked them all. First I took #1 and reconnected back to it's original location, I picked up all the same even transponders again. I next move it down to spot #2 without any signal. I continued this process for all connection points to see if things would change.
After this I reconnected back at position #1 and continued the same process with the #2 cable but on ae odd transponder. At connection point 3 I received a signal.
In the end #1 stayed at the same connection it was on, #2 moved to the #3 spot, #3 moved to the #4 spot and #4 moved up to the #2.
I now have all my channels and the local HD as well. I must also admit that even if the last tech did mismatch the connections I now believe that he truly did "tweak" the dish. I am now observing the strongest signals yet. Most of the SD transponders were running into the low 80's and the HD's in the mid 60's. Now I'm seeing the SD's near 98 and the HD's in the upper 80's and low 90's from the H-20 (600).
Once again thanks for the advice and help.
"One happy HD guy." :)

The connection order doesn't matter. One or more of the connections may have been loose or had dirt in it.

Craig Webb-
I hope you let D* know the extent of your involvement. They need to learn that maybe 50% of the local techs are incompetent. On the phone, D* always acts as if the local techs can solve anything. I now request a lead tech or a supervisor or nothing. On my current request, still unresolved, D* sent a trainee who insisted on swapping out my 5x8 multiswitch. Well, I have a 3 LNB antenna with integral 3x4 multiswitch, feeding four receivers. He insisted I had a 5x8, until he talked to another tech on the phone. He then switched his tune to say I need to cut down some trees to improve line of sight. I allowed that he might be right, but that I got two birds perfectly, it was only the 119 satellite that was a problem. Since he had no equipment and precious little knowledge, he was stumped. I recommended that he go away and send somebody with both knowledge and equipment. So, a supervisor and a lead tech came, and said cut those few trees right there. In the meantime, they apparently didn't tighten down my dish, and when we had some wind, it moved a little. Now we only get the 101 satellite. Over the weekend, we clear cut the area where D* said the offending trees were. Any tree unlucky enough to be hanging around in that general area is now in a firewood pile. Weyerhauser would have been proud at the complete devastation brought upon the area. No less than 100 trees (generally not particularly desirable trees) met their fate on Saturday. We will begin our reforestation program this week. When D* returns on Tuesday, thay won't have any trees to kick around anymore. Presumably they can dial that 3 LNB right in and lock it down. If not, I will call D* while they are still here, and make clear the level of incompetence of the local techs. However, because of an earlier post by Davenlr, I was able to make a sighting device to guarantee that there is now no obstruction in the line of sight.

You are currently seeing (from left to right as you look at them, assuming you are North of the equator!!) the 101, 110 and 119 satellites. The new ones are at 103 (actually 102.8) (between the 101 and 110) and at 99 (actually 99.2), which is slightly to the left of 101. The elevation will depend on where you are located.

To get a more accurate location, direction and elevation go to http://www.lyngsat.com/tracker/america.html

Great. If 99 is to the left of the current sats, I may be screwed...

Great. If 99 is to the left of the current sats, I may be screwed...

It's only slightly to the left of the 101 satellite, about 3-4 degrees. You can look up the angles here (the DTV 99 satellite isn't listed, but another at 99 is):

http://www.emantechnology.com/lookangle.asp

Does anybody know if the HR20 in available outside LA (I am in Dallas). I was told LA only a couple of weeks ago. Also, they acted like they were doing me a favor for offering the box at $200 when it's available. That's after I spent $700 on the HD DVR (after spending $300 on the HD box a year before - yes I'm an HD junkie). Is there a way of getting the upgrade for less. With Fios moving into my area over the next couple of years I am tempted to move when it's available

Does anybody know if the HR20 in available outside LA (I am in Dallas). I was told LA only a couple of weeks ago. Also, they acted like they were doing me a favor for offering the box at $200 when it's available. That's after I spent $700 on the HD DVR (after spending $300 on the HD box a year before - yes I'm an HD junkie).

I am in Cincinnati, and received the HR20 two weeks ago. If you are in an area that is getting locals in HD soon (Cincinnati got theirs last Tuesday), you will need the mpeg 4 dish to receive them and other channels when they roll out. Also you are getting killed on the price. I got the HR20 and the 5lnb dish for FREE because I am an NFL Sunday ticket subscriber and upgraded to HD. Also the normal charge for the HR20 is $500 and there is a $100 rebate. There is a customer retention number for DTV a few pages back. Call them and complain.

Dave

I am in Cincinnati, and received the HR20 two weeks ago. If you are in an area that is getting locals in HD soon (Cincinnati got theirs last Tuesday), you will need the mpeg 4 dish to receive them and other channels when they roll out. Also you are getting killed on the price. I got the HR20 and the 5lnb dish for FREE because I am an NFL Sunday ticket subscriber and upgraded to HD. Also the normal charge for the HR20 is $500 and there is a $100 rebate. There is a customer retention number for DTV a few pages back. Call them and complain.

Dave

Not $500. The HR20 is $299 at Best Buy or Value Electronics and you can probably get a rebate from DirecTV.

Not $500. The HR20 is $299 at Best Buy or Value Electronics and you can probably get a rebate from DirecTV.


According to the CSR I spoke with, $500 is the purchase price, $299 is the lease price.

According to the CSR I spoke with, $500 is the purchase price, $299 is the lease price.

I've heard somewhat higher numbers for purchase. But I don't really see any reason to do so. What would you get for the extra money? If you cancel the DTV service, it's yours to keep, but without the service it doesn't have much value. I understand that commercial installations (bars, etc.) require purchase, but it doesn't make economic sense for a residential user.

Just had the HR20 installed. The installer handed the phone to the CSR who asked me if I wanted to pay for the protection plan.

Well since I'm leasing it, why would I pay $6 a month to protect it?

Not $500. The HR20 is $299 at Best Buy or Value Electronics and you can probably get a rebate from DirecTV.

That was the original price quoted to me from a CSR, and that I was going to pay it until another CSR told me about the Sunday Ticket Deal. You are correct in that it is leased equipment, I had to agree to another year. But the HR20 was at no charge.

Dave

Does anybody know if the HR20 in available outside LA (I am in Dallas). I was told LA only a couple of weeks ago. Also, they acted like they were doing me a favor for offering the box at $200 when it's available. That's after I spent $700 on the HD DVR (after spending $300 on the HD box a year before - yes I'm an HD junkie). Is there a way of getting the upgrade for less. With Fios moving into my area over the next couple of years I am tempted to move when it's available

I am in Keller and had the HR20 installed on September 5th. If you are a ST and SF subscriber you get a free DVR. If you are an HD subscriber or have been with them a long time you should be able to negotiate a nominal cost.

(edit) FYI...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8569250#post8569250

Worked like a charm. Called directly to the retention line and they gave me the box, antenna, and installation for free (well, $199 charge, but also gave $199 credit). Install isnt for 2 weeks, but it'll be nice to have locals in HD without putting up an antenna. Couldnt get Sunday Ticket like another poster tried. Now I know to call the retention line (FYI on pg 13 of this thread) and threaten to go to Fios when they piss me off

Worked like a charm. Called directly to the retention line and they gave me the box, antenna, and installation for free (well, $199 charge, but also gave $199 credit). Install isnt for 2 weeks, but it'll be nice to have locals in HD without putting up an antenna. Couldnt get Sunday Ticket like another poster tried. Now I know to call the retention line (FYI on pg 13 of this thread) and threated to go to Fios when they piss me off

I had to wait 2 weeks as well. They are swamped and HR20s are under INTENSE demand nationwide. I would set your expectations accordingly. He might be late, they might be out of them, or the box you get might be DOA. The poor tech who installed mine was working 12 to 15 hour days and driving all over the metroplex trying to meet the demand locally.

I had to wait 2 weeks as well. They are swamped and HR20s are under INTENSE demand nationwide. I would set your expectations accordingly. He might be late, they might be out of them, or the box you get might be DOA. The poor tech who installed mine was working 12 to 15 hour days and driving all over the metroplex trying to meet the demand locally.
much as i hate to ruin your evening i called my local antenna company got a hr20 the new dish and the owner is going to do the install all for nada.

To put paid to the story started earlier, after several techs failed to set up 3LNB dish correctly, I finally got one who was a) experience and b) interested. I had already removed many, many trees, but problem went unsolved. This tech figured out that other techs had ignored tilt -- mine was set four degrees too high. Once he corrected that, all stations on all satellites came in perfectly. I told him I wanted him to come back to install my 5 LNB dish in the spring when we will be eligible. So, props to experience + interest in any line of endeavor, but particularly for DirecTv.

OK, I got my HR20 this week but I didn't get an AT9 dish so no MPEG4 locals for me but I do get the distant network feeds, in this case the LA feeds.

Anyone in the Bay Area compare the PQ of MPEG4 locals vs. the PQ of the LA feeds?

Anyways, the first Ironwood tech who came out said he can't install AT9 on a wall mount, which is where my current 3-LNB oval is, because stucco is likely to come off. Roof is too high and not an option.

But the second Ironwood guy who brought out the HR20 (after I worked it out with Direct TV just to get the HR20 for now) said it would have been no problem, that there are 8 points to secure the mast to the wall and if the anchor bolts are sunk in correctly, it should be no different than the triple LNB that I already have up on the wall.

So should I try to get Direct TV to send out an Ironwood guy competent or confident to install the AT9 on my wall? Or just wait for the smaller 5-LNB dish they are said to be developing?

I just moved and Directv installed the AT9 dish at my house. Of course I had no way of getting my OTA local HD stations because the Zinwell multiswitch does not have an input for it. I called Directv and they agreed to swap out my 3 HR10-250 for HR 20's. Could someone please summarize the differences between these 2 receivers? Thanks.

It's too big a question. A thread instead of a summary is required. ;) http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=629072&postcount=1 is one.

I am a new forum member and this is my first posting. I hope it is in the right thread.

I have been a Direct TV customer for nine years and have owned DirectTV Tivos pretty much since the time they were first introduced.

Up until a couple of weeks ago I had five active Tivos. I now have three Tivos and two of the new Direct TV Plus HR20-700s DVRs. The new units are my first venture into HD.

When I purchased the new units, installed them myself and called Direct TV for activation. At that time, I told them that I wanted to be able to get my local channels in HD and was wanted to have the OTA antenna installed as well.

I was told that my area (Richmond, VA Henrico County, 2059) could use the Kaku 5-lnb dish and would not need the OTA. To be sure, I followed up with ANOTHER phone call to Direct TV and was told the same thing….. I was very specific with my questions’ ‘cause I’d been monitoring this for the past couple of years.

Well….. long story short….. the tech shows up today and tells me even if he installed the KaKu, I won’t be able to get my locals in HD. While he was here, both he and I talked with Direct TV support…. And they admitted that I had been misinformed.

The tech went on to say that Direct TV no longer offers the OTA option on the new HR20s. He said they used have sell (or include) a smaller “tuner antenna” with the old H20s and that worked fine…. But they don’t offer it anymore.

I should note, that I have a new Sharp 37” set and have it plugged into a set of Philips “rabbit ears”. The local HD stations come in beautifully.

But, when I plug the same antenna into the HR20’s “antenna input” in the back…. And run all the onscreen setup stuff….. it doesn’t work. By that I mean, I do not get the locals in HD.

Additional info:

My house is less that two years old and has been pre-wired with a “4 x 8” multiswitch at a master control panel inside. I currently use five of the eight available “outs”, for my Tivo-like devices. I should also note that none of my DVRs have double inputs.

The tech mentioned that I could possibly look at replacing the “4 x 8” with “5 x 8”, which would allow the fifth input to be for an outside or attic OTA antenna.

I guess my main question is really pretty simple? Is it POSSIBLE to use an OTA antenna, feed it through my new high-def DVRs and be able to record my local channels in high def?

If not, I can live with local channels in standard def for another year of two.

But, I can’t help but feel there are other folks in the Richmond, VA area who are going through something similar.

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks.

I guess my main question is really pretty simple? Is it POSSIBLE to use an OTA antenna, feed it through my new high-def DVRs and be able to record my local channels in high def?

The HR20's OTA tuners are not enabled currently, but are supposed to be enabled with a software upgrade in the near future (within the next couple of months - probably).

Thanks for the reply.

Woulda thought Direct TV support coulda told me that........... Not really, just kidding, I've dealt with these folks for almost 10 years.....

When the fix/update does come, then I WILL be able to get (and record) the local HD Channels through the HR20? If so, can you recommend an OTA that would work best?

Thanks again.

When the fix/update does come, then I WILL be able to get (and record) the local HD Channels through the HR20?
That's the idea.

If so, can you recommend an OTA that would work best?
It's probably best to ask in the thread for your local area:

Richmond, VA - HDTV (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=435750)

Well since I'm leasing it, why would I pay $6 a month to protect it?

You get overnight delivery of a replacement box if you need it and a tech at your house the next day if you need one.

I had to get a replacement HR10-250 (the HD in mine died today) and they would not give me the option to PAY for overnight shipping...it will be here in "3 to 5 days." I guess that means ground. I hate ground. Really ticked me off...then I found on their website that with the protection plan you get it overnight. That explains that.

But, not worth $6 every month in my book. I'm getting tired of all these extra fees as is.

I purchased an HR20 upgrade 3 weeks ago to be installed tomorrow. I just got home to hear a message from the installer stating that D* is out of stock on HR20 with no ETA and they will postpone the install.

Could this be true or is this installer blowing smoke in a remote dark spot of my body? :eek:

Thanks for the reply.

Woulda thought Direct TV support coulda told me that........... Not really, just kidding, I've dealt with these folks for almost 10 years.....

When the fix/update does come, then I WILL be able to get (and record) the local HD Channels through the HR20? If so, can you recommend an OTA that would work best?

Thanks again.

you said rabbit ears work great for your tv. There's no reason to think they wont work just as well for the HD unit (once enabled). Or were you trying to eliminate those things sitting on top of your boxes?

If so, then the good news is you are so close that pretty much any antenna should work if the bunny ears do now.

Thanks to Squidboy, I learned yesterday that my HR20-700S does not have its OTA functionality operating yet. Hopefully the "enhancement/fix/upgrade" will come soon.

When the tech showed up yesterday with the monster 5 lnb dish and proceeded to tell me that even with it, I would not be able to pickup my local (Richmond, VA 23059) stations in HD. I told him I didn't want it installed.

Well.... actually, since my current dish is mounted on the highest gable of my house, he really kinda talked me out of it. He kept stressing how much bigger it is.

Anyway, since I just did the upgrade to HD (two HR20s), I know right now they will install the 5 lnb for free.

My question is - even though I won't be able to get the Richmond stations on it for what might be a year or two more - should I go ahead and have them install the 5 lnb? It really would be quite visible on the roof of my house.

I know with it, I'll be able to receive other HD stations once the come on line.

The tech also alluded to the development of a smaller dish that might be coming down the pike within a year or so.

What would you do if you were me?

Thanks.

There is a slightly smaller dish coming out soon. I suspect it will start showing up in a month or two. It is still somewhat larger than the other current dishes. Here is a link to some photos of the slimline dish: http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=76808

I don't know when Richmond HD locals will be carried. There was an announcement today of 25 more local markets to be added by the end of the year, but Richmond was not among them. http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=914114&highlight=

Since it was not on that list, it will probably be carried when the two new satellites go up next year. The last I heard was that DirecTV-10 will be launched in the second quarter and DirecTV-11 in the third or fourth quarter of 2007. It will take little while after they are launched before they are operational, of course. These satellites will carry many additional locals plus they have the capability for a large number of nationwide HD channels (probably more than now exist). A Ka/Ku 5-LNB dish will be required for these as well as the current Ka satellites.

I purchased an HR20 upgrade 3 weeks ago to be installed tomorrow. I just got home to hear a message from the installer stating that D* is out of stock on HR20 with no ETA and they will postpone the install.

Could this be true or is this installer blowing smoke in a remote dark spot of my body? :eek:I received a replacement HR20 from D* today via FedEx
which was shipped yesterday (Mfg. Date 10/2).

Getting my new box & 5 lnb dish thursday...........

I upgraded today to the 5lnb and New HD DVR and h20 and the closest appoinment date they had was oct 27th, the lady said bc thats when they would be instock with the item. I am confused though, i read some people are getting there local HD channels through the new dish and h20 and some people are not? Or is it bc they have the h20 and not the 5lnb the reason they cant get local HD's, can someone clear this up for me. by the way Im in dallas

I upgraded today to the 5lnb and New HD DVR and h20 and the closest appoinment date they had was oct 27th, the lady said bc thats when they would be instock with the item. I am confused though, i read some people are getting there local HD channels through the new dish and h20 and some people are not? Or is it bc they have the h20 and not the 5lnb the reason they cant get local HD's, can someone clear this up for me. by the way Im in dallas

DirecTV isn't broadcasting HD locals in all markets yet. They will add several new areas by the end of the year, but some won't be available until new satellites are operational next year. In some markets only a limited number of network stations are carried because DirecTV hasn't yet come to terms with the stations. I believe they won't carry an area in HD unless there are a minimum of two stations ready to go.

D* newbie question.

Is it correct to assume that the 5 LNB dish will provide 5 separate, fully capable feeds to up to 5 diferent D* receivers for 5 separate HDTV's? Or would two feeds be required for a dual tuner receiver giving me two dual tuner locations and one single tuner location.

Thanks,

D* newbie question.

Is it correct to assume that the 5 LNB dish will provide 5 separate, fully capable feeds to up to 5 diferent D* receivers for 5 separate HDTV's? Or would two feeds be required for a dual tuner receiver giving me two dual tuner locations and one single tuner location.

Thanks,
The 5LNB dish provides four lines. You will require one line per tuner, so a DVR needs two lines and any other receiver needs one. If your system requires more than four lines you will need a multiswitch.

D* newbie question.

Is it correct to assume that the 5 LNB dish will provide 5 separate, fully capable feeds to up to 5 diferent D* receivers for 5 separate HDTV's? Or would two feeds be required for a dual tuner receiver giving me two dual tuner locations and one single tuner location.

Thanks,

The 5 LNB dish has a built-in switch with 4 outputs. To get additional outputs an external multiswitch is required. The Zinwell WB68 (8 outputs) is currently used, but there are new models from both Zinwell and Spaun which have additional outputs. If your installation needs more than 4, DirecTV will supply a suitable multiswitch when your dish is installed.

Has anyone gotten the Slimline installed by Direct TV?

There are reports on dbstalk.com that some people are getting it as they run out of AT9.

66stang351 and rdn,

Thank you for your responses. I will check out the multi switches from Zinwell and Spaun.

Cheers!

Anyone that has the new MPEG4 hardware, are you guys experiencing "film like" frame rates on some of the locals. Yesterday CBS would "flicker" almost during the Steelers game. Later that night NBC would show the same effect, except it wouldn't be constant. It was like every 10 seconds it would do it for a few seconds. It was very annoying.

Anyone that has the new MPEG4 hardware, are you guys experiencing "film like" frame rates on some of the locals. Yesterday CBS would "flicker" almost during the Steelers game. Later that night NBC would show the same effect, except it wouldn't be constant. It was like every 10 seconds it would do it for a few seconds. It was very annoying.

I haven't seen that from Seattle. Perhaps it is related to difficulties with uploading from the local station. Supposedly DirecTV is upgrading some of those installations where there are problems.

Ok, so I did not see an official HR20 thread and therefore I will ask my question here. I read that the eSATA port has been activated, has anyone tried connecting an external drive to it to increase their storage capacity? If so, does it still use the internal drive as well?

Thanks,

Kemical

Ok, so I did not see an official HR20 thread and therefore I will ask my question here. I read that the eSATA port has been activated, has anyone tried connecting an external drive to it to increase their storage capacity? If so, does it still use the internal drive as well?

Thanks,

Kemical

Yes the eSATA port is active. The word is that the HR20 discovers the new external drive, ignores the internal drive, and proceeds to format and boot with the external drive. Red Hat seems to be the OS the box prefers on the new external drive. All preferences and recordings on the internal drive will be unavailable.

Ok, so I did not see an official HR20 thread and therefore I will ask my question here. I read that the eSATA port has been activated, has anyone tried connecting an external drive to it to increase their storage capacity? If so, does it still use the internal drive as well?

Thanks,

Kemical

Yes, it is active, but not officially supported yet. There is an extensive thread on DBSTalk.com devoted to the subject. See:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=66201

Folks have reported good success including the use of an eSATA RAID 0/1 array. Only issue seems to be the display of remaining/used space and the either/or of internal vs external.

Any new word on the ATSC tuners in the HR20-700?

Anyone that has the new MPEG4 hardware, are you guys experiencing "film like" frame rates on some of the locals. Yesterday CBS would "flicker" almost during the Steelers game. Later that night NBC would show the same effect, except it wouldn't be constant. It was like every 10 seconds it would do it for a few seconds. It was very annoying.


I've got a similar setup and problem--I've been referring to it as "motion artifact," although I'm not sure if that is the correct terminology. I only get it under the following conditions:
MPEG4 locals
1080i
live, or live on tape (ie. football, Jay Leno)

1080i looks fine on the regular HD channels, and does fine with the CBS feeds for S/T SuperFan HD channels. College football on ABC (720p) and NFL on Fox (720p) seem OK as well. It's only the combination above that gives me trouble.

Personally, at this juncture, I'm guessing it has to do with the HD local feeds out of Philly as I'm located in Macungie and using the same locals/sats as you. Perhaps it will be rectified as MPEG4 gets upgraded and expanded.

I'd be interested to know if this is showing up in any other areas, or if other Phila area members get it as well--or if it's better/worse with an LCD or Plasma display as I only have DLP/projector for HD currently.

Any new word on the ATSC tuners in the HR20-700?
Customer Retention at D* says OTA will be activated "by December 1st."

I've got a similar setup and problem--I've been referring to it as "motion artifact," although I'm not sure if that is the correct terminology. I only get it under the following conditions:
MPEG4 locals
1080i
live, or live on tape (ie. football, Jay Leno)

1080i looks fine on the regular HD channels, and does fine with the CBS feeds for S/T SuperFan HD channels. College football on ABC (720p) and NFL on Fox (720p) seem OK as well. It's only the combination above that gives me trouble.

Personally, at this juncture, I'm guessing it has to do with the HD local feeds out of Philly as I'm located in Macungie and using the same locals/sats as you. Perhaps it will be rectified as MPEG4 gets upgraded and expanded.

I'd be interested to know if this is showing up in any other areas, or if other Phila area members get it as well--or if it's better/worse with an LCD or Plasma display as I only have DLP/projector for HD currently.

Yup thats pretty much exactly what I saw and on the same channels. Hopefully it's just DTV and those 2 or 3 Philly stations and they'll get it straightened out shortly.

Customer Retention at D* says OTA will be activated "by December 1st."

Then that's when I'll start looking into making the switch. Thanks for the info. :cool:

Ok, I haven't taken the plunge yet for the new dish and receiver, I've got an older TERK dish with a built-in multiswitch. That feeds a Spaun 5X16 multiswitch that distributes the signal throughout the house (four from the dish, one from antenna for OTA HDTV). I understand that that with MPEG-4 I can't run the OTA feed over the same lines as the DTV signal, but can I still use the old multiswitch to just distribute the MPEG-4 DTV signal? I get my locals OTA, and right now there is not so much other HD programing available on the DTV that I'm missing much by not using the newer system but the new DVR looks appealing. I'm hoping I don't need a new multiswitch in addition to all the other stuff I'll need to buy. Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Dave

Ok, I haven't taken the plunge yet for the new dish and receiver, I've got an older TERK dish with a built-in multiswitch. That feeds a Spaun 5X16 multiswitch that distributes the signal throughout the house (four from the dish, one from antenna for OTA HDTV). I understand that that with MPEG-4 I can't run the OTA feed over the same lines as the DTV signal, but can I still use the old multiswitch to just distribute the MPEG-4 DTV signal? I get my locals OTA, and right now there is not so much other HD programing available on the DTV that I'm missing much by not using the newer system but the new DVR looks appealing. I'm hoping I don't need a new multiswitch in addition to all the other stuff I'll need to buy. Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Dave

Most of the older multiswitches can't handle the 250-750 and/or 1650-2150 MHz frequencies used by the LNBs for the 99 and 103 satellites. The Zinwell WB68 has been around for a while and Zinwell now has a WB616 model with 16 outputs (Spaun also has new models with 12 or 16 outputs). DirecTV should provide the dish and any needed multiswitch at no additional cost when you upgrade to a HD receiver.

There is a thread on the dbstalk forum about diplexing in OTA after the multiswitch (the BBC module is placed ahead of the diplexer). This must be done for each cable, however. Since not all of the frequencies are yet in use (and won't be until new satellites are launched next year) there are no guarantees that this will continue to work, but it looks feasible.

Most of the older multiswitches can't handle the 250-750 and/or 1650-2150 MHz frequencies used by the LNBs for the 99 and 103 satellites. The Zinwell WB68 has been around for a while and Zinwell now has a WB616 model with 16 outputs (Spaun also has new models with 12 or 16 outputs). DirecTV should provide the dish and any needed multiswitch at no additional cost when you upgrade to a HD receiver.

There is a thread on the dbstalk forum about diplexing in OTA after the multiswitch (the BBC module is placed ahead of the diplexer). This must be done for each cable, however. Since not all of the frequencies are yet in use (and won't be until new satellites are launched next year) there are no guarantees that this will continue to work, but it looks feasible.

Thanks very much for the info. I called DTV today and they are out of the new HD DVRs, but I am supposedly on the customer A-List and am entiltled to a free upgrade when they come back in. If the new multiswitch is included that would be fantastic--I think the old one cost about $350 after really searching to get a reasonable deal.

Thanks very much for the info. I called DTV today and they are out of the new HD DVRs, but I am supposedly on the customer A-List and am entiltled to a free upgrade when they come back in. If the new multiswitch is included that would be fantastic--I think the old one cost about $350 after really searching to get a reasonable deal.

Spaun products are of good quality but tend to be rather expensive. When you talk to DTV to schedule installation, make sure they know that you need the multiswitch so that the installer will have one available.

D* installed the Zinwell WB68 at no extra cost when I "upgraded" to the HR20.

Installed the Zinwell 616 with 14 outputs in use. Everything is working fine on all TVs and Directv receivers. Cost of the Zinwell is $250 compared to the Spaun at $499 for the 4x12 and $599 for the 4x16.

Just got 2 HR-20's installed Friday. These things are a crock!!! I kept my HR10-250 activated just in case. I tried to run 1 satellite feed from the zinwell multiswitch to the HR-20 and one to the HR10-250 in the same room; the hr-20 keeps an error message "searching for sat # 2 in" on the screen all the time; is there any way to remove that? Of course, the HR10-250 works fine with one sat feed coming in because it has a setup option that allows you to choose how many feeds you have coming into the receiver.

Also, I had to unplug each of the HR-20's several times to get closed captions to work.

Just got 2 HR-20's installed Friday. These things are a crock!!! I kept my HR10-250 activated just in case. I tried to run 1 satellite feed from the zinwell multiswitch to the HR-20 and one to the HR10-250 in the same room; the hr-20 keeps an error message "searching for sat # 2 in" on the screen all the time; is there any way to remove that? Of course, the HR10-250 works fine with one sat feed coming in because it has a setup option that allows you to choose how many feeds you have coming into the receiver.

Also, I had to unplug each of the HR-20's several times to get closed captions to work.
Yes, the HR20 can be run with just one feed. There is a setup option just like the HR10.

Has anyone gotten the Slimline installed by Direct TV?

There are reports on dbstalk.com that some people are getting it as they run out of AT9.
I got one installed today. Seems to pick up the MPEG4 channels fine. It seems odd, but I only see three LNBs. The installation manual says it has built in Ka/Ku LNBs and a multi-switch.

just got my system upgraded today. 5 lnb dish, 2 H-20's and 1 HR20-700s. I have a question though, in the room with the HD DVR I am able to receive my local HD's in fox, abc. cbs. and nbc and mpeg4 stations such as ch 96, however in the other 2 rooms wit the h20's I am not receiving my local hds nor ch 96(comes up not available). In order to receive those local hds and mpeg4s do all of my receivers have to be the hd dvr's or should I be recieving them on all 3 recievers. could the wiring be messed up, it doenst make sense to get them in one room and not hte other 2

I got one installed today. Seems to pick up the MPEG4 channels fine. It seems odd, but I only see three LNBs. The installation manual says it has built in Ka/Ku LNBs and a multi-switch.

You must have receved the new slimline dish....

just got my system upgraded today. 5 lnb dish, 2 H-20's and 1 HR20-700s. I have a question though, in the room with the HD DVR I am able to receive my local HD's in fox, abc. cbs. and nbc and mpeg4 stations such as ch 96, however in the other 2 rooms wit the h20's I am not receiving my local hds nor ch 96(comes up not available). In order to receive those local hds and mpeg4s do all of my receivers have to be the hd dvr's or should I be recieving them on all 3 recievers. could the wiring be messed up, it doenst make sense to get them in one room and not hte other 2

Compare the signal strength readings from the DVR on SAT 99 and 103 with the readings on the H-20's and see if the H-20s are actually getting a signal from the 99 and 103 sats.

I got one installed today. Seems to pick up the MPEG4 channels fine. It seems odd, but I only see three LNBs. The installation manual says it has built in Ka/Ku LNBs and a multi-switch.The 99, 101, and 103 LNBs are in the same centrally located larger housing with the 110 and 119 LNBs outboard on the AT9. See http://www.solidsignal.com/satellite/directv_dish_antenna_types.asp for the different dish types. The slimline will probably have one wide housing if it looks like the prototype.

I have 3 lnb with Hughes STB. If I upgrade to AT9 and H20 will there be any cost to me and will I now have extended my commitment to D* another 2 years?

Anyone able to get a Slimline dish (as opposed to the AT9) from Direct TV yet?

DBS Talk forums have several people claiming they're starting to use them when the AT9 supply runs out.

Anyone able to get a Slimline dish (as opposed to the AT9) from Direct TV yet?

DBS Talk forums have several people claiming they're starting to use them when the AT9 supply runs out.

I had the slimeline dish installed yesterday along with the upgrade to the hr20 and h20

Yeah I asked because Customer Retention claimed they couldn't order it.

Did you specifically ask for it or is it what they happened to have when they came out?

Anyone from the Bay Area, specifically South Bay, get the Slimline installed by Ironwood?

Didnt request it, just came with the order

i have 3 hr 20's and can not get close captions to work on the local HD stations; i have a hr10-250 and the same OTA HD stations show close captions. i have captions set to "on" and use "service one" in the menu. Being hearing impaired, this is really aggravating. Does anyone else have this problem or know a fix to it?

Recently had D* come and install the 5lnb and a new H20. They also installed a Zinwell 6x8 switch. Now I picked up the HR 20 and I am out of outlets. Does anyone know if I call D* for a switch with more outlets if they would just send me one for free? Or charge?

Well, I had DTV come out here this morning to install my new HD Dish and my Free HD DVR that I negotiated with them on and the Mastec installer told me that my dish would have to be placed in the front yard, where my current single LNB dish is located on my roof. He said that trees in the backyard were the issue. I am puzzled how my current dish works (99% signal strength) and they could not figure out how to put the new dish in.

DTV Retention has rescheduled a new installer for this Saturday to come out and see if he has a different opinion.

May have to go to Charter Digital afterall. :(

Compare the signal strength readings from the DVR on SAT 99 and 103 with the readings on the H-20's and see if the H-20s are actually getting a signal from the 99 and 103 sats.

I'm willing to bet the H20s are set up to interface w/ a 3 LNB dish (in lieu of the 5 LNB you have) and/or the installer didn't have DirecTV activate HD locals on the H20s.

Well, I had DTV come out here this morning to install my new HD Dish and my Free HD DVR that I negotiated with them on and the Mastec installer told me that my dish would have to be placed in the front yard, where my current single LNB dish is located on my roof. He said that trees in the backyard were the issue. I am puzzled how my current dish works (99% signal strength) and they could not figure out how to put the new dish in.

DTV Retention has rescheduled a new installer for this Saturday to come out and see if he has a different opinion.

May have to go to Charter Digital afterall. :(

It depends on where the trees are... when my installer came out he thought he was going to have to place the dish in a different location as well. Apparently the new dish requires about 15 degrees more clearance toward the West. The corner of my house would've blocked that 15 degrees had he placed the dish in the exact location of my old one.

Nonetheless... he was able to configure it away from the house a little bit and get the necessary clearance.

He also explained to me he hates lugging the AT9 dish up a ladder and installing on a roof... another reason we were able to come to an agreement on placement so he didn't have to do climb onto the roof... not to mention my wife would've had a cow. :)

Apparently they're pretty heavy... so your installer may have just been lazy.

Ever since I had my H20 w/3lnb dish installed I have had a serious problem with rain fade vs the oval 2lnb I had before getting HD. The signal strengths on the H20 were in the upper 60s to 70s with a couple showing 80 and 82. I just had an HR20 installed with the 5lnb dish and have both receivers connected. The HR20 shows between 98 and 100 on most all transponders but the h20 signal strengths did not change. The sat. tuner in the H20 in not sensitive enough. I've had 3 H20s total and the first one only read in the low to upper 60s. For those experiencing unacceptable rain fade, I suggest you upgrade to an HR20. I have noticed the PQ is also slightly better. I live in NW Fl. and should have much better reception with the H20 than I do. The HR20 is great and time will tell if my rain fade is back to what very little I would experience with the oval dish. For those with a 3lnb, don't expect the AT9 to improve signal strength, it doesn't, but the HR20 has much more sensitive tuners.

I am sure it has been already been answered, but after 180 pages on the last thread and over 13 on this thread, I will re ask the question

I am in Los Angles, have the 10-250 and a OTA. I get great reception from OTA for HD and just about every channel in LA has a HD or digital version.

Now the question is, should I upgrade to the 20 and the new dish. I dont watch sports so HD sports is not an issue for me. What benefits do i get from the upgrade and what do i lose by it

One other question, Directv at Cedia told me that if I call them for an upgrade its $99, if Directv calls me for the upgrade its free. I talked to Directv (nobody knows what I am talking about) and I was finally told they are out of the units and I was placed on a waiting list. In any case, I asked them if I was ever to be called for the upgraded and they had no idea. So in reality there is no free upgrade, is this correct and has anyone gone through CSR to get a free upgrade

Daniel,
There have been many that "claim" to have gotten a free upgrade, but my experience through several different conversations, at different times,with customer retention (I have had D* since 1995) was the best deal I could get was $150 off regular price. There is a reason to get the 5lnb with an H20, or better yet an HR20. When D* puts up the new birds in 07, there will be several HD channels added (not locals) that will be MPEG 4. You will not be able to get these without the new MPEG 4 receivers. Other than that, I don't see any real advantage. I, too, get all my locals off air, but upgraded to H20 when I got my HD. The H20 is a good receiver with an excellent OTA tuner. Since Rain Fade should not be an issue for you, you should be pleased with the H20. I love my HR20, but had no real need for the 5lnb and MPEG 4 until they add the new HD feeds in 07. Got the AT9 installed with the HR20 for future compatablilty. I did it now to avoid the "rush" when D* starts to have to replace the MPEG 2 units and also to avoid getting a SlimLine 5lnb which is slightly smaller. Be aware, though, some areas are experiencing a shortage of the HR20s and you may have to wait a couple of weeks or longer for installation and may get the new SlimLine. I believe you should be happy with the new unit(s) and the $99 upgrade is a good deal. Make sure you have them run new leads for your installation as the new (low) frequencies placed into the pipeline are sensitive to "leaks" and interference from OTA and other signals in the same bandwidth. Hope this helps.

Sony SXRD 60"XBR1
HR20
H20
Sony LCD 40"XBR2

Got the slimline dish installed on Saturday along with the HD DVR, I can't receive my OTA channels anymore becuase the setup for OTA satellite is "grayed out" in the setup portion of the HR-20. I am also receiving some of the motion pixelation when watching football games in MPEG-4 it was happening pretty badly in the Cowboys/Panthers game last night.

I hope they upgrade teh Seattle area soon with ABC/FOX Locals, those are the ones I lost when my OTA satellite wasn't able to be setup.

And to update my previous post, there will be a software download on Dec 1 that will allow me to get my offair Antennae working again.

This from Tier 2 support at Directv.

I am also receiving some of the motion pixelation when watching football games in MPEG-4 it was happening pretty badly in the Cowboys/Panthers game last night.

Just for reference, I was watching the game OTA last night from my local NBC station, and I was getting some serious motion pixelation also. So it wasn't just the MPEG-4 feed.

The signal strengths on the H20 were in the upper 60s to 70s with a couple showing 80 and 82.

The HR20 shows between 98 and 100 on most all transponders but the h20 signal strengths did not change. The H20 uses a different scale to report signal quality. The H20 typically reports 20 points lower that other receivers. It's normal.

Just for reference, I was watching the game OTA last night from my local NBC station, and I was getting some serious motion pixelation also. So it wasn't just the MPEG-4 feed.


Okay good, maybe it was just NBC all together.

Daniel,
There have been many that "claim" to have gotten a free upgrade, but my experience through several different conversations, at different times,with customer retention (I have had D* since 1995) was the best deal I could get was $150 off regular price.

Here are 432 other claims by people who got the HR10-250 for free, and now get the HR20 for free. I claim to have gotten two of them. No questions asked.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=686376&page=15&pp=30

I should have known that "claim" might get a rise from some. D* flat denies giving any for free. I'm not saying no one got one for free. I have, though, talked with several people I know personally that have D* that could not get one for free, or a better deal than the $99. that's why it's in quotes. This I expect from D* if they think they can get money from anyone. Sorry guys.

As for the signal strength on the H20, I know it reads about 20 low and is getting the same signal the HR20 is reading 98-100 on all transponders. However, the H20 will not hold a signal when we have a decent rain compared with my old Sony. When the signal strength drops due to absorption or diffraction, the H20 goes searching for sat. when my sony stayed locked on. Time will tell if the HR 20 holds under the same conditions. I believe it will but time will tell. Heck, I watched D* through 5 major hurricanes and only lost signal for 5-15 min at a time where I've lost signal for 3 and 4 hrs with the H20 under much, much less severe conditions.

Okay good, maybe it was just NBC all together.
KNBC here in LA multicasts with usually 2 and sometimes 3 subchannels. They keep these subchannels on during football. It is beyond my comprehention why any engineer or management type at NBC would think that running subchannels with a 1080i signal is OK. Many people are just seeing HD for the first time, and watching the pixellated mess on NBC is going to make people think that standard def is far better. I would like to see DirecTV get the feed from the station before it's broadcast and bit starved, and then see what they could do with MPEG 4 to keep the quality up.

NBC stations have all sorts of free bandwidth for their subchannels judging from the PQ of the NBC network feed. Our NBC station has NO subchannels, and the picture from NBC network is STILL a pixellated mess. Course, NBC's head honcho doesnt believe in HD anyway, so its not surprising.

Ive written NASCAR requesting they DO NOT contract with NBC next year at all.

If i cant get the 119 now, will I have more or less of a chance of seeing the 2 new birds with the new dish? I'm assuming is the tree up my hill on my neighbors property blocking 119 and I dont even get it in winter with no leaves.

If i cant get the 119 now, will I have more or less of a chance of seeing the 2 new birds with the new dish? I'm assuming is the tree up my hill on my neighbors property blocking 119 and I dont even get it in winter with no leaves.
The new sats are no where near 119. They are bracketed around 101. If you get 101 cleanly then you will most likely be able to get 99 and 103 because they are only 2 degrees left and right of 101.

i have the older model hd tivo,was wondering if the new model mpeg 4 is much faster in the guide and such,how is the software compared to the old tivo one?

Also ive lost my signal recently on my dish for B ......a and c are still 98 % anyone know what might be causing this? no trees anywhere near?

I got the HR20 and AT9 dish for 19.95 shipping and handling. I didn't even have to haggle! They did it in 2 hours and everything is perfect. I'm really happy.

The new sats are no where near 119. They are bracketed around 101. If you get 101 cleanly then you will most likely be able to get 99 and 103 because they are only 2 degrees left and right of 101.

I guess the only question is, will the &(&&*((* ironwood people even install it if i decide to get it? They said because i dont see the 119 they wouldnt install my other one.

Can someone elaborate a little on why they like it,what is the diff in the old tv hd unit and this one?

I guess the only question is, will the &(&&*((* ironwood people even install it if i decide to get it? They said because i dont see the 119 they wouldnt install my other one.

Can you see 110 and 119 from any other location at the same time? I currently cannot see 119 from any location where I can see 101, so I installed one AT9 for 99/101/103 and a second one for 110/119, which uses a "remote" lnb, and can be hooked from a second dish install to the primary dish via coax cables, and the receiver see's it as one AT9.

Can someone elaborate a little on why they like it,what is the diff in the old tv hd unit and this one?

Here is a basic review of the unit.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=61862

It doesn't do a side by side comparison but you get the idea of the differences. My take away is:

1. Tivo has a better layed out menu system or maybe I am just to use to it.
2. The new DVR has some really cool features that the old Tivo based unit does not have, such as showing how much hard drive space is left and a 90 minute buffer vs. the Tivo 30 minute buffer.
3. The HD DVR OTA tuners are not active yet, however they are supposed to be activated in December, so if you rely on OTA for your HD content then you will be out of luck until they activate them.
4. The new HD DVR has more recording space for HD when it records MPEG4 vs. MPEG2. Roughly 50 hrs vs. 35hrs when dealing with straight HD content.
5. The new DVR can hook up an external SATA drive that replaces the internal drive. This will allow the consumer to more easily upgrade the amount of recording time. The base programming is on an internal chip and therefore it is just plug and play. You do not get the use of the internal Hard drive when you plug in the external drive, so if you have programs recorded already you wouldn't see them on the new drive. Since the base program is on an internal chip you do not have to reprogram your season passes and preferences, so pretty cool.

Just read the review and look through the forums over there and you will get the jist of it. I probably will get one once the OTA tuners are activated. At that point I will be able to do a side by side comparison since I have two HR10-250's currently.

One more thing, most people have been able to get it as an upgrade for only $19.95, however if they do charge you to upgrade it shouldn't cost more than $99 and you can usually get them to give you free programming to make up the difference.

Let me know how you like it if you get one.

Kemical

actually I dont know. to try would mean playing with wires and extending them to move the dish around. Though it's just a porch roof so maybe there is a chance I could do it. I'm guessing all new HD will be on the new birds anyway and hopefully they move from 119 :)

kemical, thanks bud,good info. Im gonna stick with the hr10 myself till the ota is turned on.I basically use it to record almost all network prime time hd content anyway. I love the unit,im just hoping for a faster overall speed,in guides and changing channels and such. not looking forward to hooking up that new dish


I dont know the sat the runs on trans B but for some reason ive lost it,dish is still set perfect and A and C aregetting 98 %?

kemical, thanks bud,good info. Im gonna stick with the hr10 myself till the ota is turned on.I basically use it to record almost all network prime time hd content anyway. I love the unit,im just hoping for a faster overall speed,in guides and changing channels and such. not looking forward to hooking up that new dish


I dont know the sat the runs on trans B but for some reason ive lost it,dish is still set perfect and A and C aregetting 98 %?

I'd suspect either a bad LNB or bad cable connection for sat B. IMHO the new dish isn't that big of a deal. The Slimline is slightly smaller than the AT-9.

Anyone notice the new software update for the Tivo based units? It looks to add groups and alphabetical listing in the recorded list section. Anyone notice anything else? Also, there was a message that referred to how to select your channels, did anyone read this and notice there was a section in there referring to Dish customers? What is that all about?

Kemical

There have been a lot of comments about the HR10 software update in various threads. Besides the changes you noted, the big improvement is much quicker response time. It's like a whole new machine. On the downside, many people have reported DD 5.1 audio dropout problems, especially on Fox channels.

Never got the message you referenced (although I was looking for one), so I can't comment on that.

I am in Los Angles, have the 10-250 and a OTA. I get great reception from OTA for HD and just about every channel in LA has a HD or digital version.

Now the question is, should I upgrade to the 20 and the new dish. I dont watch sports so HD sports is not an issue for me. What benefits do i get from the upgrade and what do i lose by it
I'm in the LA area as well. I got the DirecTV HR20-700 Sat receiver/DVR and the new SlimLine dish. Unfortunately, the new HR20 receiver requires a firmware update for OTA feeds (that's supposed to be released by Dec 1st), and I didn't know about this. I complained while the installer was in, and they gave me my locals free for 6 months - enough time that OTA support will be ready in the receiver, and I can re-connect my OTA.

One other question, Directv at Cedia told me that if I call them for an upgrade its $99, if Directv calls me for the upgrade its free. I talked to Directv (nobody knows what I am talking about) and I was finally told they are out of the units and I was placed on a waiting list. In any case, I asked them if I was ever to be called for the upgraded and they had no idea. So in reality there is no free upgrade, is this correct and has anyone gone through CSR to get a free upgrade
I paid $99 for the new receiver, and I don't think that's bad - although you are effectively leasing it now (new policy for DirecTV now, and as of March 1st I believe). If or when you change receivers, the current receiver will have to go back to DirecTV.

There have been a lot of comments about the HR10 software update in various threads. Besides the changes you noted, the big improvement is much quicker response time. It's like a whole new machine. On the downside, many people have reported DD 5.1 audio dropout problems, especially on Fox channels.

Never got the message you referenced (although I was looking for one), so I can't comment on that.


I always had audio dropout problems on the HR10-250 with my Sony DA4ES A/VR when switching between DD sources and LPCM sources, especially. Even when going from a DD program to the menu system, it would cause dropouts. Since the firmware update, it is worse. It takes forever to make the dropouts stop. Even turning off the HR10-250 and/or the A/VR doesn't make it stop a lot of times. I have waited up to 20 minutes for the dropouts to cease.

I also I have the problem now with he audio dropout/picture freeze up on Fox OTA here in the NYC area. Now, I am just dying to get rid of the damned things and move to the HR20-700s, whereas I has no problem waiting before. Now the thing is, I can't use the HR20-700 for OTA - yet. :rolleyes: DirecTV is really starting to bug me. I swear, if Verizon came in with FiosTV right now and offered me all the channels I currently require, I'd drop DirecTV without an afterthought.

According to a normally reliable source elsewhere on this board, D* is working on a fix for the drop out problem caused by the HR10's 6.3a software upgrade. Whether it arrives before the OTA fix for the HR20 is anyone's guess, but the HR20 still seems to have more problems than the HR10.

I wonder how much of your other issue is exasperated by your Sony. I never had that problem at all with my Onkyo, but now sometimes experience a very brief audio pause since I upgraded to my Pioneer. I'm more fortunate than you, because, while this is noticeable, in my case it's not a real problem.

Anyone try to cancel their service after committing to a 2-years for the HR20?

They reneged on a promise to install the Slimline because Ironwood refused to install AT9 on a wall mount.

Now they're telling me I would have to buy the Slimline on my own. They claim they don't have the Slimline, that I would have to buy it on my own from the stores. They also said even when they do have it, it would not be a part of their original upgrade.

They're telling me $300 cancellation fee.

Maybe worse comes to worse, that's worth it because it's a lot less than what I would be paying until Oct 2008.

According to a normally reliable source elsewhere on this board, D* is working on a fix for the drop out problem caused by the HR10's 6.3a software upgrade.
I'll believe that when I 'hear' it. They were supposed to 'fix' the drop out problem 2 years ago.

I wonder how much of your other issue is exasperated by your Sony. I never had that problem at all with my Onkyo, but now sometimes experience a very brief audio pause since I upgraded to my Pioneer. I'm more fortunate than you, because, while this is noticeable, in my case it's not a real problem.

It has always been more of a problem with certain receivers, but still inexcusable, IMO. DirecTV tried to claim the receivers were the ones that wee incompatible - well, why is it only this rotten HR10 that I have trouble with out of dozens of other components?

I'll believe that when I 'hear' it. They were supposed to 'fix' the drop out problem 2 years ago...
Well, this one should be more readily fixed, as it was just introduced with the new software. :rolleyes:

Still, I'd have to agree with your skepticism. I only mentioned it because the source has been pretty well informed in the past.

I just called customer retention at (800) 824-9081.. It is no longer customer retention, but customer express (read slow boat to China). First, you have to slog through endless computer choices, then you are get to talk to people who appear to have started about 5 minutes ago.
Anybody have a better telephone number?

I just called customer retention at (800) 824-9081.. It is no longer customer retention, but customer express (read slow boat to China). First, you have to slog through endless computer choices, then you are get to talk to people who appear to have started about 5 minutes ago.
Anybody have a better telephone number?


Suggest you and everyone else use 877-280-4388 during prime hours. Takes you right to tech support and there you can keep the drumbeat going on the latest software issues (dropouts, reboots, non or incorrect recording times, etc.).

I just called customer retention at (800) 824-9081.. It is no longer customer retention, but customer express (read slow boat to China). First, you have to slog through endless computer choices, then you are get to talk to people who appear to have started about 5 minutes ago.
Anybody have a better telephone number?

D* has 16 million customers which requires approximately 10,000 customer service reps to provide 24x7 support. You can imagine the turnover, training, and quality issues that represents. Just call back and speak with another one. I wouldn't actually ask them any questions, just tell them what you want.

Depending on what your issue is you can always call 2nd tier tech support at 8887137772. There is no IVR to maneuver. Your chances of talking to someone competent increases to about 1 in 4 with this number. :o

Bill-
Thanks for the new number, which I will try. However, my real point is that apparently the "secret" number we all used has apparently changed. Maybe I need to call up and tell them I want to cancel my service, and then maybe I will get customer retention. Some danger in that -- they may just say "good riddance!"

Bill-
Thanks for the new number, which I will try. However, my real point is that apparently the "secret" number we all used has apparently changed. Maybe I need to call up and tell them I want to cancel my service, and then maybe I will get customer retention. Some danger in that -- they may just say "good riddance!"

Just curious...what is it you would like them to do?

Ok, I know that DTV does not send a high quality signal when it comes to the High Definition channels in comparison to OTA, however does anyone think that it has gotten worse since the software update happened? Or am I just being paranoid? I haven't had time to watch a live OTA HD broadcast since the update happened last week, so I have not been able to compare the two signals. It just seems like ESPN, which is normally sharp as a tack, isn't that great anymore. Like I said, maybe I am just being paranoid.

Thanks,

Kemical

billt1111-

When that number was customer retention, the advantages were several:

They answered the phone promptly without your having to punch in a bunch of numbers or talk to a computer
The phone was answered by someone who had obviously worked there for a while, rather than my experience Thursday, when I was talking to someone who had clearly just started that day. I became so exasperated that I asked if he had just started and he said he had. I finally thanked him and hung up and tried again for a better CSR (of course I had to go through all the button pushing again).
In addition to being "not new", the CSRs at customer retention were knowledgeable, and you could talk to them on a different level. For example, if I am a brand new D* customer, then I need one kind of service. But, if I have been a customer for 5 - 10 years, then I know the drill, so to speak. If I have a hardware problem. I have already tried resetting the unit several times (through unplugging and/or pushing the red button. I know to check to see if there is a picture on Channel 100.
All in all, I am just irritated that we had a good way to "beat the system", and now we don't. Might as well go back to the cable system!

Let's hope someone discovers and posts a new direct retention number before long.

billt1111-

When that number was customer retention, the advantages were several:

They answered the phone promptly without your having to punch in a bunch of numbers or talk to a computer
The phone was answered by someone who had obviously worked there for a while, rather than my experience Thursday, when I was talking to someone who had clearly just started that day. I became so exasperated that I asked if he had just started and he said he had. I finally thanked him and hung up and tried again for a better CSR (of course I had to go through all the button pushing again).
In addition to being "not new", the CSRs at customer retention were knowledgeable, and you could talk to them on a different level. For example, if I am a brand new D* customer, then I need one kind of service. But, if I have been a customer for 5 - 10 years, then I know the drill, so to speak. If I have a hardware problem. I have already tried resetting the unit several times (through unplugging and/or pushing the red button. I know to check to see if there is a picture on Channel 100.
All in all, I am just irritated that we had a good way to "beat the system", and now we don't. Might as well go back to the cable system!

I was just curious whether the issue in question was technical or billing related. The number I posted was a direct line to technical support without an IVR.

Hey did anyone who got the MPEG4 LIL channels get their DNS channels taken away?

I'd like to have both if possible.

billt1111-
I'm uncertain how to characterize what I needed to do -- it certainly wasn't technical. I just wanted to turn on my Florida account after having arrived here. Billing I guess. That turned into a hassle. Then, during the call, it turned into a technical issue, when my HD receiver failed (repeated clicking and flashing, unresponsive to front panel, resetting wouldn't help). I guess at that point I should have just hung up and called tech, but I was too frustrated with the new guy at D* to think straight. While the new guy was trying to figure out where in the script to start, I had already done all the tests. That was my fault. I eventually got to tech and they sent me a new receiver, and now things are good again in HD land.
Things worked out OK in the end, I am just used to quicker and smoother response through customer retention.

wco81;

I am running a HR10-250 and a new HR20-700. I am able to receive both the DNS (MPEG2) and LIL (MPEG4). However I was advised by a nice young lady in the Retention Department to keep my mouth shut about it. The DNS are grandfather in and if they are removed you cannot get them back.

So far so good. I do believe that in the future they will get cut off in time.

OK, we'll see how it goes out here.

They're coming tomorrow to install a Slimline to replace my triple-LNB. I've been using HR20 for about a month so I have a lot of series set to record those DNS channels. I don't want to have to re-do them all at once.

Plus it sounds like the MPEG4 picture quality is uncertain here, in the Bay Area. So it would be nice to have the option to choose between the two, although supposedly, the MPEG4 recordings are suppose to take up less disk space on the HR20.

Ok, so I will post the question again, has anyone noticed that it seems as though the pic quality of HD channels has gotten worse since the update, is this just me or has anyone else noticed this?

Thanks,

Kemical

Ok, so I will post the question again, has anyone noticed that it seems as though the pic quality of HD channels has gotten worse since the update, is this just me or has anyone else noticed this?

I assume you are talking about the H20? I wish I could answer this but I moved my H20 to an SD CRT TV. Both my plasmas have free HR20s connected to them. I did look at my H20-600 to see if it received a software update and it had not. What version is your H20 on now? I doubt it will make much difference in PQ on the S-video input on my 27" CRT TV however.

Ha, so get this. DTV comes out to do an install of a slimline and an hr20-700 today to add to my HR10-250 that is already installed, and guess what, theres NO LNB in the box. None of the installer's boxes had LNB's, so first he tried the old lnb from my 3 sat dish for my hr10-250, but couldn't get all the sats he needed for me to keep my current channel lineup, so I got him to reinstall the old 3 lnb dish nearby and aim it and such, so now I have the hr20, but no locals in HD.

Super. Oh and I waited a month for this appointment.

Now I've gotta call DTV and explain to them what happened and see if they even get it, so that they can get somebody out here to install the new lnb and re-aim the slimline.

What a bummer.

I got the Slimline 5 LNB installed to replace my 3-LNB today.

He also put up a new 8-way multiswitch.

Plus: I get MPEG4 channels and they didn't touch my DNS (I get CBS, NBC, ABC out of LA).

Minuses: He said he would plug up the old holes from the 3-LNB dish mount (both are mounted on the wall) but I don't think he did. He also fastened only the top two screw holes of the multiswitch whereas the old multiswitch had the 4 screws?

So, if the old Customer Retention number doesn't go there anymore, how does one get through to Customer Retention? Do you have to go through the first level CSR's first and request to be transfered over?

I assume you are talking about the H20? I wish I could answer this but I moved my H20 to an SD CRT TV. Both my plasmas have free HR20s connected to them. I did look at my H20-600 to see if it received a software update and it had not. What version is your H20 on now? I doubt it will make much difference in PQ on the S-video input on my 27" CRT TV however.


Actually I was referring to the 10-250 software update that just happened, gave you folders and various other things. Anyway, the HD pic just doesn't look as good as it use too (I know, not saying much). Even OTA seems a little lacking. Anyway, just seeing if it is me or if there is some truth to it.

Thanks,

Kemical

Actually I was referring to the 10-250 software update that just happened, gave you folders and various other things. Anyway, the HD pic just doesn't look as good as it use too (I know, not saying much). Even OTA seems a little lacking. Anyway, just seeing if it is me or if there is some truth to it.

Thanks,

Kemical


The PQ looks the same to me on the HR10-250, but it's the darned dropouts that are a mess. :mad: :rolleyes:

The PQ looks the same to me on the HR10-250, but it's the darned dropouts that are a mess. :mad: :rolleyes:
Agreed. My PQ seems unchanged, but, while I don't often have dropouts, when they occur, they are maddening. :eek:

Actually I was referring to the 10-250 software update that just happened, gave you folders and various other things. Anyway, the HD pic just doesn't look as good as it use too (I know, not saying much). Even OTA seems a little lacking. Anyway, just seeing if it is me or if there is some truth to it.


My bad. I thought I was in the MPEG4 thread.

Ok, so I am either paranoid or crazy or both.
Thanks for the responses.

Kemical

I've got a similar setup and problem--I've been referring to it as "motion artifact," although I'm not sure if that is the correct terminology. I only get it under the following conditions:
MPEG4 locals
1080i
live, or live on tape (ie. football, Jay Leno)

1080i looks fine on the regular HD channels, and does fine with the CBS feeds for S/T SuperFan HD channels. College football on ABC (720p) and NFL on Fox (720p) seem OK as well. It's only the combination above that gives me trouble.

Personally, at this juncture, I'm guessing it has to do with the HD local feeds out of Philly as I'm located in Macungie and using the same locals/sats as you. Perhaps it will be rectified as MPEG4 gets upgraded and expanded.

I'd be interested to know if this is showing up in any other areas, or if other Phila area members get it as well--or if it's better/worse with an LCD or Plasma display as I only have DLP/projector for HD currently.

Just had the new dish and H20-100 installed. Watching NBC game tonite I see the "motion artifact" referred to. I'm in Maryland. Sony E42A10 LCD TV. It is most noticeable on the far shots. Didn't remember seeing it earlier on the FOX game.

Just had the new dish and H20-100 installed. Watching NBC game tonite I see the "motion artifact" referred to. I'm in Maryland. Sony E42A10 LCD TV. It is most noticeable on the far shots. Didn't remember seeing it earlier on the FOX game.

There are references to many video issues with every box ever manufactured for DBS. I am sure if an individual wants to see "motion artifacts" then they are certainly there to the beholder who truly believes. However I do not see any "motion artifacts" on my Panny 42" HD plasma. I have FIOS as well on a trial basis and OTA HD through my H20 is FAR superior. Local MPEG4 through the H20 is also noticably superior to FIOS and remarkably free of "artifacts", particularly on well produced games like SNF.

I am quite pleasantly surprised by the MPEG4 PQ as well (and I sit 50" from a 40-inch Sony XBR2 1080P set). I hope it holds up for the new national HD channels next year.

I have the HR20 with MPEG4 dish. I can not get close captions on the local HD stations; I am sure i have the settings correct as i get captions on all other stations. Anyone else have this problem? I reported it to Directv and the technician, of course, did not have a clue.

There are references to many video issues with every box ever manufactured for DBS. I am sure if an individual wants to see "motion artifacts" then they are certainly there to the beholder who truly believes. However I do not see any "motion artifacts" on my Panny 42" HD plasma. I have FIOS as well on a trial basis and OTA HD through my H20 is FAR superior. Local MPEG4 through the H20 is also noticably superior to FIOS and remarkably free of "artifacts", particularly on well produced games like SNF.

Believe me, if my wife sees it, its there! Most noticeable at the snap of a football play. No other complaints.

Believe me, if my wife sees it, its there! Most noticeable at the snap of a football play. No other complaints.

I assume by motion artifacts you refer to the cog wheel type motion. I see this often in hockey games. I think (and I am not a techie) it is a result of compression. I only have it in sporting events and I believe it is because it is easier to compress a picture if almost all of it is still as opposed to what happens when almost all of it is "moving." :confused:

I assume by motion artifacts you refer to the cog wheel type motion. I see this often in hockey games. I think (and I am not a techie) it is a result of compression. I only have it in sporting events and I believe it is because it is easier to compress a picture if almost all of it is still as opposed to what happens when almost all of it is "moving." :confused:


I think you're right. As I said above, I only see it under the following combination of conditions:

1. 1080i
2. MPEG4 locals
3. live/or live action motion

remove any of the above and there's no motion problem. (ie, 720p locals on ABC and FOX fine, 1080i hockey on hdnet fine, 1080i football on superfan fine, primetime shows on NBC and CBS fine) deinterlacing at the box, or my AVR, or my projector, doesn't help.

So, yeah, I'm thinking it's somewhere in the compression. Either with DirecTV or at the level of my locals in Philadelphia. It's not a huge deal most of the time, but I'm hoping it will get better as the MPEG4 improves and as more sats come on line.

Mark

Anyone having reboot problems with their H20? Mine recently started rebooting about once a day. I called DTV & got a replacement box, but they made me aware of a tech document which details known issues with the H20 & HDMI compatibility with some sets. I have used the HR250 & HDMI for quite a long time with no issues, so I doubt thats the real issue....they did say a software update soon would fix the issue.

I think you're right. As I said above, I only see it under the following combination of conditions:

1. 1080i
2. MPEG4 locals
3. live/or live action motion

remove any of the above and there's no motion problem. (ie, 720p locals on ABC and FOX fine, 1080i hockey on hdnet fine, 1080i football on superfan fine, primetime shows on NBC and CBS fine) deinterlacing at the box, or my AVR, or my projector, doesn't help.

So, yeah, I'm thinking it's somewhere in the compression. Either with DirecTV or at the level of my locals in Philadelphia. It's not a huge deal most of the time, but I'm hoping it will get better as the MPEG4 improves and as more sats come on line.

Mark

I have the problem with any hockey games on 95, either Center Ice or versus. I think I also remember some problems on HDNet recently , and I don't think their picture on hockey games, the only sport i really watch, is as good as it was last year, albeit last year I watched on the HR10 250 and now I have an HR 20 :confused:

I too have noticed a lot of artifacts on the MPEG4 channels.

They are NOT there when I use my OTA antenna so it's something with the DirecTV satellite that is causing them...

Does anyone know if the OTA option on MPEG $ receivers is going to be opened by D* as promised on DEc. 1st.?

Does anyone know if the OTA option on MPEG $ receivers is going to be opened by D* as promised on DEc. 1st.?

We will see. The target date has always been Dec 1, but if the software is not ready to be released then obviously it will have to wait. My guess is that it will be late by a few days, but NO ONE outside a small circle of developers at D* knows for sure, no matter what anyone tells you.

There's a rumor floating around that it will be delayed into 2007, but that's being circulated by a D*TV CSR, and we all know how reliable that source of information is.... :rolleyes: :eek: :D

There's a rumor floating around that it will be delayed into 2007, but that's being circulated by a D*TV CSR, and we all know how reliable that source of information is.... :rolleyes: :eek: :D

Maybe. Maybe not. Here is the "official" word for lack of a better term, as updated at 324pm CST today, from the person who is in contact with the developers of the HR20 software. There is no reason to look anywhere else for an OTA status update.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=735517#post735517

I am going to want to upgrade to a at9 dish when national channels are available, but I do not want to agree to a new 2 year scam commitment incase fios comes to town.

I am willing to buy the dish and pay for a professional install, how do I go about finding a reliable installer without going through D*, which thinks that they are doing me a favor by installing equipment that only works , crappily I might add for their service. The cable company doen't charge me for the wires and say I should sign a 50 year commitment to pay for the wires since I am using them. Well anyway I will not agree to any service commitment extension so what are my options besides self install, which I would prefer not to do since others can probably do it better.

Indianapolis Indiana area.

Thanks.

I am going to want to upgrade to a at9 dish when national channels are available, but I do not want to agree to a new 2 year scam commitment incase fios comes to town.

I am willing to buy the dish and pay for a professional install, how do I go about finding a reliable installer without going through D*, which thinks that they are doing me a favor by installing equipment that only works , crappily I might add for their service. The cable company doen't charge me for the wires and say I should sign a 50 year commitment to pay for the wires since I am using them. Well anyway I will not agree to any service commitment extension so what are my options besides self install, which I would prefer not to do since others can probably do it better.

Indianapolis Indiana area.

Thanks.

The 2-year commitment is on the receiver not tha antenna. If you have a receiver (H20 or HR20) which is capable of receiving any MPEG4 channels which will be added next year (or locals now), you are part-way into that commitment already and should have received the dish at the time you installed it. If they installed a different dish, they will probably replace it for free with a 5 LNB dish (probably slimline, which is slightly smaller than the AT-9) without any increase in the commitment.

In June 0f 2005, Directv stopped broadcsting in HD when they began their
policy of downrezzing to sub-HD format. This was still true as of March 2006, but I
haven't been keeping up with developements.
Is Directv still downrezzing their HD broadcasts, or have they resumed broadcasting in
full 1920x1080?

My local installer/service guy (in my apartment building) is being a real jerk and refusing to help me enable two tuner operation of my HR20 since i didn't buy it from him (he didn't have them in stock when I asked so I bought one at CC).

Before he threw his temper tantrum, he told me that even though only one wire is coming into the apartment, and only one wire is avalable at the wall, that he could hook up two diplexers to enable two tuner operation.

The incoming wire can be broken out where it enters the apartment (access via a panel in the wall behind the refrigerator), and I could install a diplexer there, and I can also install a diplexer at the wall jack, from which I would run two cables to the HR20. Is this all that is needed?

The only thing that makes sense is that there must be two cables coming into the wall panel behind the refrigerator (only one of which is currently hooked up). If I put a diplexer there, connecting the two cables, with the output single line going to the distribution to the apartment, then install another diplexer at the wall jack, with the two outputs going to the HR20, will this work?

The whiney installer assures me that numerous people in the building (a 30 story, two year old complex, by the way) are using the 2 tuner capability of their HR20's and HD DirecTiVo's.

Thanks,

Dennis in Miami

Nothing will turn one wire into two for full use of an HR20 right now. A frequency translation module is in the works but not available yet. Diplexers are use to combine and separate over the air signals with satellite signals. They should not be used any more with typical D* installations because one of the new Ka bands overlaps the OTA frequencies.

Nothing will turn one wire into two for full use of an HR20 right now. A frequency translation module is in the works but not available yet. Diplexers are use to combine and separate over the air signals with satellite signals. They should not be used any more with typical D* installations because one of the new Ka bands overlaps the OTA frequencies.

Wolf,

Thanks for your reply, Maybe you misread my post. My question was: if there are two wires coming into the apartment, is there a way to combine the signals into one cable, then to break the signals out to two cables again at the HR20? The installer has assured and re-assured me this is being done throughout the apartment buiding right now He refers to the hardware as a diplexer, but maybe he should be calling it a "stacker/destacker", and he says he is doing it today, ,not "in the works".

Dennis

If it is a MDU (multiple dwelling unit) installation where one dish feeds a large number of apartments it uses a stacker/destacker. Some of these have greater bandwidth than the consumer-grade stacker/destackers do and can handle 101, 119 and 110. I don't think any of these yet handle the 99/103 satellites (which the FTM will do), but they will deliver the content of the HD package and distant (LA/NYC) where applicable.

I just got a H20 and the new 5 LNB dish installed for use in a new house and haven't got a HDTV yet in the room where the H20 is located. Just to check it out I connected the composite video and audio outputs to a small portable TV and found that the H20 keeps locking up and it displays the TV channel banner info, but no video programming, but the audio is OK. After 2 or 3 hard reboots (remove power for 30 seconds) the video came up OK and when I checked a few hours later it had locked up again (banner only and couldn't change channels). Without reading this entire thread is this an known issue that is perhaps fixed with an automatic firmware download or did I get a truly defective H20.

By the way I have an older D* STB (non-MPEG 4) connected to a HD plasma in other room and that one is working normally.

Ron Jones

I'm upgrading my system from the SD Directv to the HD package with the DVR, but I appear to have run into a snag.

Right now, I have 2 dishes, 1 for D* and 1 for the locals thru D*.

As I understand it, they are going to replace these dishes with a new one on Monday when the installer comes for my Upgrade to HD. D* also told me that in order to use the DVR, I will need 2 coax feeds to the receiver.

To solve this, I extended one of the other coax runs that was on an opposite wall but in the same room as the HDTV and receiver. I ended up putting a connector on it, fishing it down from the outlet box to the baseboard trim, then took off all the trim and ran it under the bottom edge of the drywall, and ended behind the new HDTV. So now I have 2 coax feeds available to the DVR.

So here's the problem:
D* does not offer my locals in HD, so I have to hook up an old antenna that is on our roof from years ago, and try to get in the OTA HD. No problem so far. However, am I understanding correctly that I will have to run a THIRD coax feed to the DVR just for OTA? If so, this will be next to impossible since all the walls are finished and insulated. Is there any other way to get the signal from the antenna to the reciever without running another coax?

You will have to have a multiswitch to connect the two dishes together. The HDDVR will have a pair of B Band converters which normally attach to the DVR's inputs. You can move them to the multiswitch instead by changing gender connectors. As long as the BBCs are indoors and in the correct electrical direction, they can be put anywhere in the lines. They change the 250-750MHz signal set to a higher frequency which does not conflict with the antenna signals. You can connect the antenna cable to one of the satellite cables with a diplexer as long as it is between the BBC and the DVR. The cable will then carry both signal sets. Where the cable comes to the DVR, it can be removed and another diplexer attached. That diplexer will separate the signals and provide an Sat and a Ant connector for the DVRs satellite and antenna inputs.

You will have to have a multiswitch to connect the two dishes together. The HDDVR will have a pair of B Band converters which normally attach to the DVR's inputs. You can move them to the multiswitch instead by changing gender connectors. As long as the BBCs are indoors and in the correct electrical direction, they can be put anywhere in the lines. They change the 250-750MHz signal set to a higher frequency which does not conflict with the antenna signals. You can connect the antenna cable to one of the satellite cables with a diplexer as long as it is between the BBC and the DVR. The cable will then carry both signal sets. Where the cable comes to the DVR, it can be removed and another diplexer attached. That diplexer will separate the signals and provide an Sat and a Ant connector for the DVRs satellite and antenna inputs.

Wow....thanks Greywolf! thats a lot of info and, if I am reading it right, I can combine OTA and HD signals on one of the feeds. Please correct me if I'm wrong as I don't want the installer to come on Monday and try to convince me otherwise. I'm still too new to the HD stuff to really understand most of your reply.
Also, in your first sentence you mention connecting 2 dishes. As I understand it, after the install I will only have 1 dish for D* and locals(non-hd because D* doesnt offer HD Local in my area yet) and an OTA for HD locals, so I'm not understanding which 2 dishes you are referring to. Again, to paraphrase, I think I'll be going from 2 old dishes to 1 new dish but I'll need to connect an OTA to get locals in HD. Of course I could be way off base here

I also found the HR20 thread over at DBS Talk where combining OTA HD and D* HD into a single feed is briefly discussed:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earl Bonovich
It is not recommended, once you go to a 5LNB system.
The signals from the newest sats (the KA ones), want to work in the same frequency spectrum as the diplexed OTA antenna.


Diplexing will work today but as soon as DirecTV 10 and 11 launch next year they will transmit in the Ka-lo band and that overlaps OTA so at that point the diplexing will fail. There is a potential workaround by relocating the b-band converters so they are on the dish side of the diplexer but if you can you should run a separate cable, it will make things much easier (and will also give you a stronger OTA signal than any diplexing scheme).

Is the workaround Bonovich mentions here the same thing you are suggesting in your reply? Earl Bonovich appears to be a D* enginneer judging by all his posts.

Is the workaround Bonovich mentions here the same thing you are suggesting in your reply? Earl Bonovich appears to be a D* enginneer judging by all his posts.

Well....he's a moderator of dbstalk...probably better than an engineer! :)

he'll be glad he got a promotion though

OK, if you've been following along here's the scenario:

I am upgrading a SD D* receiver, located in my basement, to the new H20 DVR on Monday. I have 2 coax feeds to my HDTV now, one that I am using from the SD receiver, and one spare that I will use for the second connection to the DVR.

So far, so good...but...D* does not offer HD locals in my area so I need to figure out how to get an OTA signal, on it's own feed-not combined on any satellite signal, down to the basement. This obviously would result in 3 coax feeds from my roof to the basement.(2 for DVR, 1 for OTA)
Now, let's just say it is next to impossible to get that 3rd feed to the basement, so I am limited to the 2 that are down there now.
Let's also assume that I am going to use the DVR for recording shows when I am not around to watch them and I do not need to record one show(from satellite feed) and simultaneously watch another show(from satellite feed), but I may want to watch Sopranos on HBO, and record the local news broadcast at the same time.ie: I want to be able to use 1 satellite feed and 1 local feed at the same time, but not 2 satellite feeds at the same time.

Given this scenario, Can I connect one of the feeds from OTA to H20 DVR and One of the dish feeds to the H20 DVR instead of 2 dish feeds to DVR? thereby eliminating the need for that 3rd coax feed?

Has anyone removed a DTV satellite from their roof? DTV said they wouldn't do it, so who is best to have do it & plug the holes so there are no leaks?

Has anyone removed a DTV satellite from their roof? DTV said they wouldn't do it, so who is best to have do it & plug the holes so there are no leaks?
they wouldn't touch because of liability and if you try it you're liable to spring a leak and then you're really in trouble. leave the thing alone.

can't do it...the tech misplaced the 5LNB dish in a really ugly spot (at the very top of our roof, immensely visible from the street) and we need to get rid of it

can't do it...the tech misplaced the 5LNB dish in a really ugly spot (at the very top of our roof, immensely visible from the street) and we need to get rid of it

Bummer. When the joke of a technician that D sent out to upgrade me to the new slimline 5 lnb dish told me he couldn't put the new dish in the same spot as the old dish (actually anchored into the highest part of my masonry on the back of the house) I told him leave the equipment and take a hike. He wanted to put the dish onto the roof of my screened in porch and claimed he couldn't get a signal from the exsisting spot. I suspect that he didn't have a drill that would penetrate the masonry!

Anyway, the moral of the story for me has always been to bite the bullet and pay a couple hundred $$ to have a professional put it in (on the new ones, I used to put the old ones in myself). I just saves agravation over the long run.

You can remove everything but the flange bolted to the roof with no risk. Without a mast the ears on the flange are only an inch tall so it is almost unnoticeable. I agree that removing the flange is a risk, you could seal the holes with roof tar and the odds are slim that it would leak but it still could.

I have a Phase lll antenna. Can the Slimline be attached to the same hardware?

I have a Phase lll antenna. Can the Slimline be attached to the same hardware?
The Phase III takes, I believe, a 1 5/8" O.D. mast; the Slimline and AT-9 both take a 2" O.D. pipe.....HTH...

The Phase III takes, I believe, a 1 5/8" O.D. mast; the Slimline and AT-9 both take a 2" O.D. pipe.....HTH...

This product is made for Dish Network's superdish, but might do the job: http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SKY1101.

snorkle ... I'm expecting tribble on equipment upgrade / install too. Later today I'm calling to confirm the scheduled date and time. Dtv botched it once, and this being the last day, last afternoon before a (3) day holiday it wouldn't surprise me if the feller wants to head for a bar.

If I run into any issues with the new dish, like a tech not want to use my existing elevated TV tower mount on a single story ranch (dish accessible from the edge of the roof, no ladder required), I expect to take over and do it myself (unless due to signal availability issues).

Dumb question: the dish does aim at the same bird, no? I'm in NW Indiana, and recall the original instructions saying I was looking for a bird over Texas (to give rough idea of orientation). No signal meter, just using a compass, level and protractor and I found tone first attempt.

I have an old RCA dish and single wire feeding a single circa 1997 receiver. If we can't come to an agreement about routing all (4) wires, I want the single wire "hotted up" with the new dish feed and H20 receiver connected to that single wire. Then, either I, my son and I, or a paid installer will route the other (3) wires into the attic for future distribution to a DVR at the AV center, or to other rooms.

Roof tar: I had a "widow maker" fall some (50) feet from a nearby walnut tree. The pointy end penetrated the shingle, tar paper and plywood decking! Ouch. It was winter so I stuffed the hole with fiberglass insulation and put two layers of (heated) tar over top. It has not leaked yet!

Uhm, don't be stingy with the tar :0)

etchasketch

ps - I was wondering the same thing, could the new dish be swapped directly into the existing mounted bracket. Too simple to work!

well, VeryOldSchool must have ESP. In a rather large topic (like > 150 pages) somewhere here in this digital playground, IRT the H20 receiver, he warned the sat installation might get canceled.

Dtv phoned last night to cancel (err, postpone) my installation.

Install CSR explained they'd been trying for days to reach me (duh, the area code changed a few years ago, so auto-call wasn't connecting, Kudos to Brian who found new AC and phoned). They want to move install to 01/12-13.

Reason: they are running out of hardware, and the installer needs to come with adequate equipment supplies. Uhm, that's three weeks down the road. It would not surprise me if the equipment shortage is not solved by then, and we resched again.

I'm pissed. OK, make that disappointed ...

It was late, past the etchasketch normal bedtime, so I didn't even ask what was out of stock. Requested same R, Brian, hold open both install dates and phone me tonight to follow-up. A good thing, as this has given me a chance to mull options.

My thought is if they are out of receivers, and a local box store has one in stock, I'll buy it and ask they keep install date tomorrow. And, if they need to send an installer two times to complete the work, well, that's their problemo.

* I have taken off work to be here for the Dtv (4) hour install window.
* I have made sure to acquire the bits and pieces needed from my end.
* The BB installers are coming same day. This is a waste of my install pkg.
* HDTV will look like crap on analog feed. The Mrs. E will be so pleased (not)
* This was to be our family Christmas gift, but, hey ... 13 year olds can wait ...

OK, I'm pissed again :-O

etchasketch

ps - also have basic cable. Any opinions on their HD pkg? It's only + $7/month ...

pps - coffee kicking in, have an indoor antenna, guess BB tech can calibrate to OTA HD signal. Also, if the H20 is what's unavailable I'd be willing to upgrade (pay for) a DVR tuner instead

Well, the story got worse instead of better. Today I made a half dozen calls while mobile, and got less than satisfactory result. I won't bore with details (though am drafting a letter to the Dtv BoD).

My suspicion at this writing is Dtv was capturing bidness / locking in customers by making appointments though they knew insufficient hardware was in the pipeline to install. So, now there are a lot of folks being postponed like me.

I'm going to mount the set tomorrow as planned and have the BB tech tune / calibrate to the analog sat, analog cable and (hopefully) HD signal OTA from an indoor antenna. Color me disappointed.

Best of the holidays alles,
etchasketch

So I take it the firmware to turn on the OTA tuners on the HR20-750 has been released? So, now is the time I suppose for me to finally call and make the switch over then?

I have been following this thread, and I know that the number for direct access to customer retention no longer works and I did post a question asking which number I should call for the best results now, but no one responded so, which number should I call?

As it stands now, I already have one H20 that DirecTV replaced a defective H10 with, but I do not have the new dish or anything else. I have two HR10-250s that I want replaced with the HR20s, and two Hughes HTL-HD high-def receivers that I want replaced with H20s, and three SD receivers that I'm going to keep. There's no swap out involved with any of the HD receivers except one, which was part of the HD upgrade deal I took nearly three years ago now. I used to get the NBA League Pass for about 7 seasons, but cancelled this season, although I did start getting Setanta Sports, which costs about the same as the League Pass does on the year, if not more, and I have the highest DirecTV programming package, plus I've been a customer since nearly the beginning. I'm thinking I should be able to get a pretty good deal?

So I take it the firmware to turn on the OTA tuners on the HR20-750 has been released? So, now is the time I suppose for me to finally call and make the switch over then?

I have been following this thread, and I know that the number for direct access to customer retention no longer works and I did post a question asking which number I should call for the best results now, but no one responded so, which number should I call?

As it stands now, I already have one H20 that DirecTV replaced a defective H10 with, but I do not have the new dish or anything else. I have two HR10-250s that I want replaced with the HR20s, and two Hughes HTL-HD high-def receivers that I want replaced with H20s, and three SD receivers that I'm going to keep. There's no swap out involved with any of the HD receivers except one, which was part of the HD upgrade deal I took nearly three years ago now. I used to get the NBA League Pass for about 7 seasons, but cancelled this season, although I did start getting Setanta Sports, which costs about the same as the League Pass does on the year, if not more, and I have the highest DirecTV programming package, plus I've been a customer since nearly the beginning. I'm thinking I should be able to get a pretty good deal?

Do what I did last night. Call their regular number and tell a CSR what you want. He or she will say, "That is beyond my authority to do so I'm going to transfer you to customer retention." Then begin again with what you want, how long you've been with them, etc.

I want the new dish, and two receivers. Only one receiver is included in the free (well there is a 2 year commit involved) upgrade, the 2nd H20 is supposed to be $99.00. I told them I wanted the 2nd one free as well since I have two HD receivers now. He said he could just charge me $19.99 delivery fee and wave the 99 so I said I could live with that.

I just told them exactly what I wanted. Told them how long I've been with them, always an A+ customer, etc. and got what I asked for.

Good luck!

Do what I did last night. Call their regular number and tell a CSR what you want. He or she will say, "That is beyond my authority to do so I'm going to transfer you to customer retention." Then begin again with what you want, how long you've been with them, etc.

I want the new dish, and two receivers. Only one receiver is included in the free (well there is a 2 year commit involved) upgrade, the 2nd H20 is supposed to be $99.00. I told them I wanted the 2nd one free as well since I have two HD receivers now. He said he could just charge me $19.99 delivery fee and wave the 99 so I said I could live with that.

I just told them exactly what I wanted. Told them how long I've been with them, always an A+ customer, etc. and got what I asked for.

Good luck!

Thanks. :) :cool:

I apologize if this has been asked before, but is it possible to upgrade to the HR20 and the slimline dish through DTV but NOT have DTV install it? That is, can I do the upgrade for free or $99 and then have my own installer do the install? Also, if DTV will not allow this, where can I get the Slimline online (and does anyone have links to pictures of it?)?

I apologize if this has been asked before, but is it possible to upgrade to the HR20 and the slimline dish through DTV but NOT have DTV install it? That is, can I do the upgrade for free or $99 and then have my own installer do the install? Also, if DTV will not allow this, where can I get the Slimline online (and does anyone have links to pictures of it?)?

Probably not. DTV may give you some credit if you have your own installer do the work. The Slimline dish is available online from a number of sources, including http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=AU9-S.

So, were I to have the HR20s installed now, do they arrive with the ATSC tuners already activated, would I have to wait to receive a firmware update broadcast from DirecTV, or will the installers have to do something to activate them?

Ok, So my H10-250 was having some problems, kept rebooting itself over and over. Called D* and they said they would ship out a replacement box. Today a HR20-700 shows up and I think cool, when I turn it over to get the serial number it has a big refurbished sticker on it. I'm not too concerned because I've had decent experiences with refurbed stuff in the past no big deal right. So I hook it up activate the new card and all seems well, except I can't get every other station. The info bar shows up and then the screen just shows black. Tried resetting it several times and didn't work. It downloaded a new version of the software and that didn't fix it. D* is sending a tech out on Friday but this is very weird. Any ideas out there?

GoldenBoy. when the HR20 is installed during the install/setup process the lasted firmware will be install automatically. Therefore the ATSC tuners will be activated. Don't worry, you will have the ATSC tuner whenever you decide to go with the HR20.

Enjoy!

HELP
Has anyone heard of a problem with reception on HD local channels only, on H20 receiver? I have 5LNB dish.
All my local HD stations have alot of pixelization. Several tech's have tried to fix it. I have good signal strength. Last tech replaced every part down to dish, switch, wiring, receivers and cables. No change. Has anyone heard of anything that could cause this kind of interference?

I just had a service call and the tech checked all the hardware and fianlly ordered me a new H20 box. Of course, it was a sunny day, so the HD channels were working. Recently, just slight drizzle, or low clouds causes the HD channels to pixelize and drop out.

GoldenBoy. when the HR20 is installed during the install/setup process the lasted firmware will be install automatically. Therefore the ATSC tuners will be activated. Don't worry, you will have the ATSC tuner whenever you decide to go with the HR20.

Enjoy!


Thanks for the info. :cool:

I have a stupid HR20 question. Would it be possible for me to get the HR20 and not use/activate the DVR service? I currently have the H20-100 and HDMI doesn't work with my Samsung, so I am interested in the HR20 for HDMI, and then possibly someday down the road activating DVR.

Possibly. When I activated my R15, they didn't activate the DVR service and I had to call back to get that. A H20-600 would work with your Samsung (and heat your house at the same time).

I live in a neighborhood that has restrictions on what can be placed outside and what is visible so am wondering what the differences are between the slimline dish for MPEG4 HDTV and the regular dish that Direct TV uses for MPEGS HDTV? Are there some disadvantages to the slim line vs the regular dish? Is it just lighter and smaller?
Thanks

The Slimline is shorter but a little wider. There have been reports of a slighty stronger signal and more resistance to rainfade, but the difference is tiny.

Now regarding your neighborhood rules, you can calmly and politely tell them to shove it. Refer them to this law: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html Simply stated, they can not forbid receiving devices - OTA antennas or sat dishes less than 36" in diameter

i have a question regarding the Active button on the remote control. My parents have a newer SD box that utilizes the Active button for local weather, lotto, etc...

i tried this at home on my -600 and it doesn't respond. the LED on the STB flashes as though it's receiving a command, but doesn't respond. is there a firmware or software upgrade that would take advantage of this? I'd like to be able to grab local weather on the fly since the weather channel is pretty generic for D*. Thanks!

I'm told interactive control could be added to the H20 in software. The priority is to make present boxes function better with present features rather than adding new features though.

Thanks Longrider....so no downsides maybe just slight improvement.

In case anyone cared, D* has just lost me as a customer. The tech comes out on Friday, and replaces the multiswitch I had with one of the Zinwell's and also replaces the LNB's on my dish. Neither solved my problems. So he tells me to call Customer Service in the morning and have them send me a new, not refurbished Hr20. I called and they wouldn't send me a new one without me paying $199. They would however send me a refurbushed one for free. Since I didn't want to take the chance of getting another bum one so I told them thanks but no thanks I'm switching to FIOS. When I told them to cancel my account they CSR didn't even try to keep me as a customer and in fact ticked me off even more. I've had 10 years of solid service with them and until this happened considered myself a satisfied customer.Ok, So my H10-250 was having some problems, kept rebooting itself over and over. Called D* and they said they would ship out a replacement box. Today a HR20-700 shows up and I think cool, when I turn it over to get the serial number it has a big refurbished sticker on it. I'm not too concerned because I've had decent experiences with refurbed stuff in the past no big deal right. So I hook it up activate the new card and all seems well, except I can't get every other station. The info bar shows up and then the screen just shows black. Tried resetting it several times and didn't work. It downloaded a new version of the software and that didn't fix it. D* is sending a tech out on Friday but this is very weird. Any ideas out there?

I upgraded to D* HD service last November (the install was on Nov. 20, 2006). They brought me the 5-lnb dish and a H20 STB. Based on what I was told (by the Quality Control guy that came out a week later), the 5-lnb dish is required for the MPEG-4 HD satellite reception and the H20 series STB/DVR are also required. These come with a converter (which my installer didn't connect up, he was supposed to) that will be required for converting the MPEG-4 HD staellite signals to the correct frequency for tuning with the H20's.

The other advantage of the 5-lnb dish is that the larger size (22" oval) is also less susceptible to rain fade.

PS - I've been a subscriber for over 5 years and I still was required to pay $99 for the N20 STB and dish (with 2-yr. commitment).

Does anyone know if the HR20 is suffering from the same audio dropouts that the HR10's have since the 6.3a update?

Does anyone know if the HR20 is suffering from the same audio dropouts that the HR10's have since the 6.3a update?It is not. 6.3b is in the process of being rolled out over a couple of weeks.

I have read over the various threads regarding mpeg4 and Direct TV and I think I have the following facts correct.

- DTV is currently transmitting mpeg4 for local channels
- mpeg4 requires a 5 lnb dish
- DTV will eventually move all HD content to mpeg4
- When using Kb band mpeg4 with extenal converter to ku band
you cannot multiplex OTA as it (or portion of it) is in the same band

Am I correct in these assumptions?

I haven't seen anything where Directv officially said that all HD would migrate to MPEG4, but it would make sense after the Directv 10 and 11 satellites are functional. The 5 LNB dishes are required for the Ka-band satellites. All channels on these use MPEG4 compression. I suppose Directv could convert content on the Ku satellites to MPEG4, but that would involve much more expense in replacing equipment than just doing if for HD.

The Ka-band frequencies assigned to Directv are in two non-contiguous bands. The lower Ka band output from the LNB will be from 250-750 MHz, which overlaps the UHF OTA frequencies (this gets converted to 1650-2150 by the B-band converter. This is why Directv says to use a separate cable for OTA. Some people have pointed out that you should be able to diplex after the converter (by locating the converter right after the dish or multiswitch). This sounds llike it should work, but there is no way to prove it until the new satellites are up (the current Ka satellites use the upper frequency).

Thanks for the reply. I guess it is a matter of bandwidth available on the current sats vs. the number of channels that will fit. In a perfect world everything will be HD, although probably 75% won't warrant it. I think the big thing is widescreen HD and not just HD. People will be buying all theses 16:9 boxes and screaming when only half their screen is full or it all is zoomed full and looks crappy.

The bottom line is that there is going to be growing pains for everyone and it looks like DTV's easy hayday is over. They are adding so much complication to the mix that I would expect their satisfaction level cannot stay on top as it has, especially with stiffening competition from FIOS, etc. While I only run one box (one cable from LNB) and I now have OTA on a seperate cable, those that have 6,8,10 and more locations will have to run a real maze of cables. Maybe we need channel on demand within the home! A main box which sends the desired channel down a cable as an atsc modulated channel. I do that here now in standard def. I have one DTV receiver. I modulate the to a local channel, multiplex with OTA, and distribute that to many TV's. Control is via IR repeated by pyramids (powermid) boxes. Works great. It would be great if you could buy a reasonalbe ATSC modulator and do this in HD! Isn't this kin of how FIOS works, where they only send the channle you ask for and the entire BW does not need to be sent?

Question - does the mpeg4 format look (or work) any better than the current format? Is the audio stream the same?

I apologize in advance if this topic has been covered. I did a quick search on multiswitch and didn't find what I was looking for. I ditched D* and went with FIOS so I have not been keeping up with D* posts anymore. My friend has a 5 LNB dish at his house. He wants to wire his house up for 10 outputs ( I believe it is 8 Tvs, but two will need to be dual for the DVR). Do you know what kind of multiswitch or setup he will need? He thinks he has to buy a Spaun WBS41602NF Wide Band Ka/Ku DIRECTV 4x16 Satellite Multiswitch (WBS41602NF) which is like $550. He is more concerned more with quality than saving money. What are his options?

http://search.solidsignal.com/?q=wb616&site=com&new_search=1&I1.x=20&I1.y=16 shows the present options. Also, 2 WB68s can be installed in parallel using 4 wideband splitters. http://www.sonoradesign.com/newpdfs/Sheet_HRPID1422_11.pdf

All the above will provide the same audio and video quality.

Now that Directv has updated the software for the MPEG 4 receivers (mine is the HR-20) to receive over the air locals, where does the OTA antenna tie into the Zinwell multiswitch? It has flex ports one and two.

I sure think that DTV would save us and themselves from a lot of problems if the KA to b band conversion was done in the LNB module and not with some downstream add-on. Besides the never ending possibility of losing or misconnecting the device it makes cabling much more difficult if OTA is used!

It is possible that there may be a loss problem though on the upper Ka band over long runs and thus sending it in the lower range to the RX and converting it would be a better idea.

If you were using the converter upstream would'nt you need to put one on each LNB output before a multiswitch? Then the OTA would be muxed at the switch.

The past few day when changing the chanel on my HD Direct TV receiver,the picture just goes black and its like everything freezes. I cant change the channel with the remote or anything. The only way I can fix this is to press the reset button on the receiver. Has this happened to anyone else? Its happened a few times and is very annoying. Once FIOS is available in my area,I will be changing.

Now that Directv has updated the software for the MPEG 4 receivers (mine is the HR-20) to receive over the air locals, where does the OTA antenna tie into the Zinwell multiswitch? It has flex ports one and two.The OTA cable cannot be connected to the multiswitch. If you must diplex, the combining and separating has to be on the receiver side of the B Band converter if it is moved away from the receiver. The BBC is directional and cannot be installed outdoors.

Brickyardz, I've had my HR20 for about 3 months and while I love the picture and the local channels are great, I've had more issues than with my older MPEG 2 HD-DVR.

I've had it freeze on my once while just watching TV and switching channels and several times when trying to use the DVR functions.

As you mentioned the only way to "fix" it is to press the red reset button and sometimes when you do that you can lose recorded programs!

Another issue I've had is that I've recorded Friday Night Lights in HD and when I went to view the show, the DVR skipped right to the end and asked me if I wanted to delete it or not. Called customer service and only thing to do was hit reset button. Did that and the show was GONE :mad:

I'm hoping they fix these issues with a firmware update. If not, I'll look into other options when my contract runs out.

I've been a long time DirectTV subscriber too.

Another issue I've had is that I've recorded Friday Night Lights in HD and when I went to view the show, the DVR skipped right to the end and asked me if I wanted to delete it or not. Called customer service and only thing to do was hit reset button. Did that and the show was GONE :mad:


If you are talking about the most recent episode of FNL then I had the same issue here in Charlotte. I think it was a problem with the feed and not with our DVRs. But I too have had a lot of freezing up. The DirecTV DVR that is not HD attached to the kids TV is even worse.

These horror stories about the HR20 are making me nervous considering I'm just about to make the switch over from my two HR10s and two HTL-HDs. I thought the HR10s were bad - I've been suffering with damned audio drop-outs every time I switch from a DD channel to a LPCM channel on my Sony A/V receiver for the past 3 years, and DirecTV has never fixed the problem. The last firmware update made the problem even worse, plus added more audio drop-outs and picture breakups on certain OTA channels and random restarts. :rolleyes:

WTF kind of rubbish are they putting out? If the HR20 is worse than this, I'm really apprehensive. I know the grass is always greener and all of that, but I really wish Verizon would hurry up and get to the New York City area so I'd at least have the option of moving to FIOS. This is coming from someone who has been a solid, high paying, DirecTV customer since the early days of the service - you know, back when there was DirecTV AND USSB (remember that?).

These horror stories about the HR20 are making me nervous considering I'm just about to make the switch over from my two HR10s and two HTL-HDs. I thought the HR10s were bad - I've been suffering with damned audio drop-outs every time I switch from a DD channel to a LPCM channel on my Sony A/V receiver for the past 3 years, and DirecTV has never fixed the problem. The last firmware update made the problem even worse, plus added more audio drop-outs and picture breakups on certain OTA channels and random restarts. :rolleyes:

WTF kind of rubbish are they putting out? If the HR20 is worse than this, I'm really apprehensive. I know the grass is always greener and all of that, but I really wish Verizon would hurry up and get to the New York City area so I'd at least have the option of moving to FIOS. This is coming from someone who has been a solid, high paying, DirecTV customer since the early days of the service - you know, back when there was DirecTV AND USSB (remember that?).
Right....along with 2 separate bills!! :rolleyes:
I had my first D* installed on Oct. 31, 1994...the FIRST day of general consumer "release"...In fact, I bought my RCA system from a local supplier....and they wouldn't even allow me to take it homein the box! The initial policy was: ONLY "qualified" installers....NO DIYs allowed!
Oh....and, of course....there was that nice MSRP of $599...... :D
Funny part is....I STILL have that old receiver.....it STILL works (although retired some time ago.....in perfect shape, both physically and electrically.....).

Right....along with 2 separate bills!! :rolleyes:
I had my first D* installed on Oct. 31, 1994...the FIRST day of general consumer "release"...In fact, I bought my RCA system from a local supplier....and they wouldn't even allow me to take it homein the box! The initial policy was: ONLY "qualified" installers....NO DIYs allowed!
Oh....and, of course....there was that nice MSRP of $599...... :D
Funny part is....I STILL have that old receiver.....it STILL works (although retired some time ago.....in perfect shape, both physically and electrically.....).

Tell me about it. I didn't start having all of these problems until I retired the old first generation RCA and Sony 'DSS' receivers when I went HD about 3 years ago. :rolleyes:

Ditto here.

Member since early 1995 and you are right. We did have to pay two separate bills. I almost forgot about that. And yes I did pay $599, however I install mine myself.

It was a great feeling. With digital signals we were light years ahead of cable at that time. It was great to be able to tell cable what to do with their service. We must be getting old when we start reminiscing about the past.

[QUOTE=GoldenBoy]The last firmware update made the problem even worse, plus added more audio drop-outs and picture breakups on certain OTA channels and random restarts.[QUOTE]

I now have a HR-10 that is constantly having 10-20 second audio drops. I noticed the picture pixelates slightly just prior to the sound returning. This only happens to one of my OTA channels. The really strange thing is that I have high reception readings and fantastic video quality. I don't know if it's my antenna or HD TiVo, because according to other forums, it isn't the local transmission. I am now considering a HR-20.

Any thoughts?

Oh! Did I mention this HR-10 is rebooting on its own for no apparent reason or I'll come home from work and find a frozen screen and the unit is unresponsive. I have to unplug it to reboot!

I don't know what to do because my DirecTV DVR R-15 always needs a reboot to remedy the unresponsiveness or it locks up just when simply rewinding or pausing, etc. It's nowhere as ez to use as a TiVo!

I can't live without DVR functionalty and love HDTV. Help!!!

The HR10 audio problems came with the 6.3a software. It is especially unfriendly to the Fox splicer technology. The 6.3b update is now in a rollout to fix that. The rebooting is due to guide download errors that caused problems recently with all D* DVRs. I heard there was a fire that required use of backup systems.

Thanks Greywolf! Is there any way to force the download now like the R15 hack?

And what do you mean by "fire?"

OK just got off with D. Man these guys are ticking me off. Is $199 REALLy they best they are doing for the HR20 for existing customers?? I have been with them for 7 years and I thought existing customers were getting it for $99??

The HR10 audio problems came with the 6.3a software.Maybe the OTA dropout problems, but the problems with certain A/V receivers when switching between Dolby Digital and LPCM broadcasts that cause dropouts and static 'pops', such as on my Sony DA4ES have been their since the beginning, and of course DirecTV, after first promising a solution, then decided to blame the A/V receiver manufacturers and have never fixed the problem. It's funny how these drop-outs don't occur with ANY OTHER COMPONENT, but somehow it's Sony's fault. :rolleyes:

It is especially unfriendly to the Fox splicer technology. Yep, the OTA drop-outs seem to happen mainly on Fox for me. The 6.3b update is now in a rollout to fix that. Great, but I'm just about ready to switch to the HR20. I shutter to think what problems that may bring. :rolleyes:

The rebooting is due to guide download errors that caused problems recently with all D* DVRs. I heard there was a fire that required use of backup systems. :eek:

OK just got off with D. Man these guys are ticking me off. Is $199 REALLy they best they are doing for the HR20 for existing customers?? I have been with them for 7 years and I thought existing customers were getting it for $99??


Did you speak to customer retention?

called the main 800, but she said she was customer retantion when i asked to be passed to them.

called the main 800, but she said she was customer retantion when i asked to be passed to them.

Hmm, that doesn't sound right. :confused:

ugh. Why do they have to play games. I am sooo frustrated with them, but don't really have any other options. I am about 300 feet of the street so adding cable would be a costly install. I would LOVE to leave them but can't.

Maybe the OTA dropout problems, but the problems with certain A/V receivers when switching between Dolby Digital and LPCM broadcasts that cause dropouts and static 'pops', such as on my Sony DA4ES have been their since the beginning, and of course DirecTV, after first promising a solution, then decided to blame the A/V receiver manufacturers and have never fixed the problem. It's funny how these drop-outs don't occur with ANY OTHER COMPONENT, but somehow it's Sony's fault. :rolleyes:

Yep, the OTA drop-outs seem to happen mainly on Fox for me. Great, but I'm just about ready to switch to the HR20. I shutter to think what problems that may bring. :rolleyes:

:eek:

I agree on the DD vs. PCM switching. I have had two AV Receivers and 5 different mfr's D* boxes and all have caused the problem in one way or another. On my Pronto remote, I have a soft button that cycles my receivers audio to another mode and then back to surround 7 which will then pick up the DD which was lost when the D* receiver was switched from a station broadcasting PCM to one broadcasting DD. It is annoying as hell. I can switch between any other of the 9 components in my system and nothing else exhibits this behavior. Some, if not all, of my DVD's switch several times between PCM and DD during startup while showing studio logos or whatever, and my receiver never has any problem with the switch. Only the D* receivers cause the dropout...

OK just got off with D. Man these guys are ticking me off. Is $199 REALLy they best they are doing for the HR20 for existing customers?? I have been with them for 7 years and I thought existing customers were getting it for $99??

marjen -- I was in the same situation as you. I've been a D* customer for many years (probably over 7years), but could not get a break on the HR20 after a few calls. However, I kept calling back about it until I finally connected with a CSR who was very helpful. The deal -- I paid upfront (credit card) for the HR20 plus tax. I was offered (1) $100 credit to my account, (2) 4 months credit on the HDTV package, and (3) $10/month credit for 12months -- all total, $260 in credits. I've seen some better deals posted, and I've seen worse -- but this one worked for me.

One approach you might take is to lay out the deal you want to the CSR yourself. Most of them know what kind of credits have been granted, and would probably approve your offer if reasonable.

Initially, not everything when smooth in my case. #1 and #3 above never showed up on my bill. However, I called D* again, and the CSR was very helpful and granted me the credits -- no questions asked. (We'll see if if shows up on my next billing statement).

One additional nuance -- when I made the original deal, they did not tell me about the $5.99/mo DVR Service fee. I didn't find out about that until I received the D* confirmation letter. Although they should have told me upfront, it is a legitimate fee. I'm not sure what "service" we really get for the fee, but it is a legitimate fee. They were willing to give me 3 months credit to rectify the communication problem, but I opted to up my service to the Premier package which waives the fee.

I hope you find this helpful.

I actually gave up on the HR20. I am not in the mood to deal with the BS. I took the free H20 instead. I don't REALLY need the DVR function in the theater, just would be really nice. I will stick with this for now and maybe look at the dvr a little later. I needed to do something as watching the Pats in SD this past weekend really was not acceptable :) I get the NY feed in HD for FOX and NBC but not CBS. Of course they can not give me an install date till next month so it will not help anyway.

Thanks though.

Quick question on DirecTV HD DVRs, I have the HR10-250 which just took a dump, thought it could have been more than the hard drive etc.. But it was bad data on the hardrive which is usually the case, well I called DirecTV and they where very quick to say not a problem send us your HR10-250 HD DVR Tivo unit and we will replace it with a HR20 no charge, I said I would love th have the new HR20 and she said go ahead and send it in when the other one arrives... Well I called back and I told them "I own it" DirecTV said no problem the new unit is on us.

Now finally to my question; Is the HR10-250 a better than the new HR-20 HD DVR? Just trying to pick what one goes into my main HT. Thanks for any help.....