I figure most of the info on this new processor should be here.

The unit is pretty heavy 9lbs, it's about the size of DVD player, a thin one. All metal and solidly built.
I used the HD3000 with my Optoma HD7100 DC3 and NEC HT1000. First thing I did was use the HQV test DVD. The Gennum chip passed all the deinterlacing tests with flying colors (no jaggies). I viewed 1080i material to look for jaggies on straight edges with movement and pannings. All lines were smooth and free of jitter. Same for running 480i SD. Infact the processor does a wonderful job on SDTV.

Things I found I liked to use are,
B&W expansion (manual says it can make or higher contrasts)
Edge enhancement (can add detail to soft images)
7.5 or 0IRE choices to match your devices and will memorized for each one.
Many gamma choices
Custom tunings with all the goodies contrast, brightness, color, hue which are active for all signals.
The Toshiba HDA1 wasn't working well for me until I added the scaler. Engineer says they're new up to date HDMI codings/hardware in the processor which would make it sync up better with various projector.

Heres some views of the menus and machine.
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/hd3000menu1.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/hd3000menu2.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/hd3000menu3.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/hd3000menu4.jpg

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/hd3000.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/hd3000remote.jpg

I'll try to find the answers to any questions that pop up. MAP will probably be around $1499. Machines are boxed up and s/b ready for sale any day now. I'll let u know exactly when.

is it for sale without the Pj and is the pj for sale without the processor?

Fixed it, Yes both can be bought separately. Any projector or other display type that has a digital input can use the HD3000.

I'm about to hook up my Xbox 360 to the Scaler. I'll set the Xbox to 1080i and see how things look with Blazing Angels. That is if I don't get sick from the world turing upside down. ;)

I hope that the blue LED in the lower right hand corner of the unit is defeatable, unlike the tape-covered one on my H77.

Any back panel picture?

:)

Any projector or other display type that has a digital input can use the HD3000.

Except our old and big CRTs (with DVI ;) ) because Optoma has forgotten to add a video timing setup :confused: :( :mad:

Serge.

Except our old and big CRTs (with DVI ;) ) because Optoma has forgotten to add a video timing setup :confused: :( :mad:
Is this true? I've asked TzungLin, but have not yet gotten an answer. If so, how are you supposed to use this thing with Plasma TVs then?

Any back panel picture?
Like the one here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=685816

;)

Does this unit have SDI?

Does this unit have SDI?
No.

Available output resolutions are -

1280x720p 50/60/72 Hz (default 60Hz)
1024x7680 50/60/72 Hz (Native resolution for a few 16x9 Plasma TV)
1280x768p 50/60/72 Hz (Native resolution for LCD TV and plasma TV)
1366x768p 50/60 Hz (Native resolution for 16x9 Plasma TV)
1920x1080p 48/50/60 Hz

Here's another menu option and a picture I took last night using B&W extension and a little of the Edge ehancement feature.
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/hd3000menu6.JPG
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/hd3000bwextension1.jpg

That's kind of sad - the MAP is very nice. I definitely need something that can be paired with my SDI modded DVD player.

Hi Tom

Are there custom resolutions availible?

Rov

1366x768p 50/60 Hz (Native resolution for 16x9 Plasma TV)
Not as many as you might hope. Many "1366x768" plasmas need 1365 or 1360 x768 timings to run at native rate. Someone did not do their homework if they think this will work with most 50" plasmas.

Later,
Bill

I would also like to know if they plan to offer more output resolutions/timings via firmware updates. 1080p24 is missing. And why do they support a mix of 48Hz and 72Hz? Not consistent...

Does this box have a genlock? GregR says that "without locking the frame rate, the 72Hz video would slip into a 4-2 frame sequence rather than the correct 3-3 frame sequence, which would make judder worse instead of eliminating it" (Lumagen VisionHDQ review, latest WSR).

It takes 24Hz as an input and outputs 48Hz, essentially doubling the frame rate. Very few projectors will take a 24 Hz input in any shape or form, so lacking a 24Hz output is not a big deal, IMHO.

Oh, yeah, 72Hz output at 1080p is probably a hair too much bandwidth for their HDMI chips. Expect 60 Hz to be the cap there until HDMI 1.3 becomes more widespread.

Infocus 777/333 (1080p24) and Sony Qualia 004 (1080psf24) at least. Are there more 48Hz-capable displays on the market than 24Hz ones?

Hi Tom

Are there custom resolutions availible?

Rov

No entering of custom resolutions that I can see. Under signal there's
Horizontal
Vertical
Frequency
Phase

Is there an audio delay capability?

Thanks

No entering of custom resolutions that I can see. Under signal there's
Horizontal
Vertical
Frequency
Phase
That does not sound like there is any way to control front and back porches; and total and active lines in that list. Sounds like a firmware upgrade is needed or Optoma just killed this for many, many display owners who would have jumped at a high quality, HDTV-capable processor in this price range.

Bear, you said it basically did a frame doubling with 24Hz. What about inverse telecine of 1080i sources from .TS media players or HDTV? And would this operation require a genlock?

Infocus 777/333 (1080p24) and Sony Qualia 004 (1080psf24) at least. Are there more 48Hz-capable displays on the market than 24Hz ones?


I don't think that the Infocus 777 or 333 is a 1080p projector

No, but it's got a 1080p24 input.

Bear, you said it basically did a frame doubling with 24Hz. What about inverse telecine of 1080i sources from .TS media players or HDTV? And would this operation require a genlock?
Require? No, not really. Could it use it? That depends upon how reliable its cadence detection is.

As for the 48Hz thing, do realize that most of Optoma's high-end HT projectors over the last three years have supported 48Hz input signals with great appreciation by many here. It would have been silly of them not to tout that as an advanced feature of both the processor and the HD81 head unit.

Later,
Bill

I like the sound of this - VSX processing and plenty of inputs for around the price of a Lumagen - glad i held back on that.

nick

The big question is how much support Optoma will give to the product with firmware upgrades. Thats what separates DVDO & Lumagen from other scaler manufacturers.

The big question is how much support Optoma will give to the product with firmware upgrades. Thats what separates DVDO & Lumagen from other scaler manufacturers.
Could not agree more, and since I may be looking at getting a plasma in the future, this is one is currently a non-starter.

Later,
Bill

are you sure of the $1600 price? I see it being listed at $3000, which seems excessively disparate from yours.

If you cant adjust timings and porch settings on the rates offered then you cannot use it with ANY 1366 x768 plasmas as ALL scaler maufacturer's default settings for 1366 x 768 do not work with any of the NEC, Panasonic, Fujitsu or Pioneer sets.

End of that story.

are you sure of the $1600 price? I see it being listed at $3000, which seems excessively disparate from yours.

Yes that's the right MSRP $2999. They would like to match the MAP at the level the DVDO streets for what ever that may be.

Yes that's the right MSRP $2999. They would like to match the MAP at the level the DVDO streets for what ever that may be.I don't understand?

What is the significance of the $1600 price? Is that the likely street price?

Nick

I don't get it. If they want to match the street prices of other scalers then why don't they just lower the MSRP a bit? I am sure there are quite a few who will look at that MSRP & not even consider it.

MSRP = Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price
MAP = Minimum Advertised Price

The MSRP in theory suggests what price level of performance you should expect, as well as the highest price that should be charged, while MAP in theory should represent the lowest price you will see advertised from an authorized Optoma dealer. What you can actually buy the unit for is between you and your dealer...;)

which DVDO are they comparing the price point with? The VP30 is $2000, the VP20 (a stripped VP30) is $1600.

which DVDO are they comparing the price point with? The VP30 is $2000, the VP20 (a stripped VP30) is $1600.
The MAP Tom talks about is designed to allow dealers to compete against the street prices for the VP30. Now, can we get off the price discussion?

I still want to know whether this thing saves all video processing for HDMI sources until it receives an HDMI signal on the AV Receiver input. In other words, can we get some more info on this loopback cable requirement. If it works the way I suspect, I am concerned about audio delay while the processor is chewing through 4 fields worth of data.

I can't test the HDMI/sound, I have analog receviers. I did test my analog D-VHS player using the Gennum chip. I couldn't find any jaggies in horizontal or vertical straight lined video with panning. Everything looked super smooth and very sharp also. My JVC VCR never looked so good, Galaxy Quest looked great. (one of my favorite feel good movies). :)

I also ran a JVC DVD player with components at 480i. I ran the HQV tests and all tests showed excellent results. The Film detail, the one with the race car and bleechers was the best I've ever seen. Pick was amazingly fast, like automatic. The Gennum chip seems to be a great one.

Tom, is there a fan in the Optoma?

Tom, is there a fan in the Optoma?
You don't like those fans one bit, do you Madshi? :D

You don't like those fans one bit, do you Madshi? :D
How do you come to this impression? :confused:

Ok, ok, you're right... :D

Infocus 777/333 (1080p24) and Sony Qualia 004 (1080psf24) at least. Are there more 48Hz-capable displays on the market than 24Hz ones?As far as projectors, the Sony Ruby supports 1080p48 input over DVI (and no other form of 24 over any digital inputs) and has probably outsold both of those others combined. And then with the Optoma's mentioned I imagine that there are more that will take 48 than 24. Although I heard that the Panasonic AE900 will accept 1080p24.

Will this scaler take 1080i film and convert it to 1080p48 like the Lumagens will? That is a nice feature for HD DVD.

--Darin

Does the HD300o use the VXP 9350, or the newer VXP 9351?

No fans in the HD3000.

Darin,
1920x1080p 48/50/60 Hz, manual says you can choose any of those resolution outputs for 1080p.

I haven't seen the output resolution choices in the System menu like the manual says I should. I'll have to call in to find out why. I'll ask about the chip # also. How new is the 9351? They've been working on this machine for most of the year.

The 9351 is the lower power/performance version. I doubt it is in the Optoma.

The 9351 is the lower power/performance version. I doubt it is in the Optoma.
Lower power: Yes. Lower performance? I don't think so. The Crystalio II uses the 9351.

The 9351 is the lower power/performance version. I doubt it is in the Optoma.Lower power, yes, but not lower performance.

Lower power: Yes. Lower performance? I don't think so. The Crystalio II uses the 9351.
die shrink, then?

die shrink, then?
From what I've been able to gleam, the 9351 seems to be just a die shrink and a simplification of the circuit, but this is just an educated guess on my part.

I sent a mesg about the chip number plus I notice in the manual it says some models don't have different output resolutions. That area doesn't show up on mine it's locked at 720p. So before anyone buys one lets clear up the differences to make sure you get what you need.

They HD3000 will have the 9351 chip. I have a first batch which is for the HD7100 which has the 9350 chip. It's resolution is locked for a 720p display. The later units for seperate displays will use the 9351 chip and can do what Darin was asking, convert 1080i to 1080p48.

The later units for seperate displays will use the 9351 chip and can do what Darin was asking, convert 1080i to 1080p48.
When will these be available for purchase?

He said they had a good amount coming in. Asked me I wanted to exchange for it but I don't know if 9350 or 9351 is highly important. I get stellar results on all the HQV test DVD's video tests right now, how much better can it get.

I compared my Pany S97's Faroudja chip vs the Gennum. The Film detail clip the Faroujda chip took a split second to pick up, the Gennum was immediate pick up. On the moving bars jaggie tests the Gennum was smoother, Faroudja still did well. On the color test pixel resolution area the HD3000 was sharp and clear while my Panny was a little blurry rendering the signal lines of black and white pixels.

He said they had a good amount coming in. Asked me I wanted to exchange for it but I don't know if 9350 or 9351 is highly important. I get stellar results on all the HQV test DVD's video tests right now, how much better can it get.

I compared my Pany S97's Faroudja chip vs the Gennum. The Film detail clip the Faroujda chip took a split second to pick up, the Gennum was immediate pick up. On the moving bars jaggie tests the Gennum was smoother, Faroudja still did well. On the color test pixel resolution area the HD3000 was sharp and clear while my Panny was a little blurry rendering the signal lines of black and white pixels.
If you are going to do a review of the video processor, then you want the full version. Otherwise, the folks in this forum (well, me, at least) will rip your methodology apart as being irrelevant to the VP market.

Ofer pretty much sets the standard for what a VP review ought to look like.

Let me start you off: can the unit process any video with the loopback cable disconnected? With your SSP/Receiver set to no delay, is there a noticeable li sync problem? At a minimum, there should be one to two tenths of a second of delay inside the unit, depending upon whether it is doing 4-field or 4-frame buffering/processing.

Later,
Bill

Goodmorning,
I can't help out on the sound check because I want to keep my SR18 and HK7300 :(

But I just went over to the HD3000 pulled the loop and got no video out of the (to AVreceiver out) plug.

Goodmorning,
I can't help out on the sound check because I want to keep my SR18 and HK7300 :(

But I just went over to the HD3000 pulled the loop and got no video out of the (to AVreceiver out) plug.
That seems to confirm that the three HDMI inputs are simply switched, which also means that the lip sync delay will need to be monitored reasonably closely, unless the unit already lags the audio before it is output.

Later,
Bill

Bear5k,

aww, shucks :)

Tom,

If sourcing from 1080i, as from a Toshiba HD-DVD player, and displaying via a 720p native projector, how will the unit do the scaling: One 1080i field, 540, upscaled to 720p, or deinterlacing 1080i to 1080p first and then downscaling to 720p.

I think this is an important point to insure the unit gives the most performance to folks with 720p projectors who want to take advantage, as much as possible, of the new HD-DVD's.

Thanks in advance.

IVTC then downscaling, though the two operations may physically be simultaneous.

It takes the 1080i interlaced signal and scales it to 720p with the Gennum chip adding deinterlacing. I tested allot of video to see artifacts. Anything with Horizontal lines like say venetian blinds, counters, rooftops, plus you need up panning and side to side panning. I couldn't see any jaggies in the straight lines with movement. Looked good, that was using my D-VHS machine and the HDA1.

It takes the 1080i interlaced signal and scales it to 720p with the Gennum chip adding deinterlacing. I tested allot of video to see artifacts. Anything with Horizontal lines like say venetian blinds, counters, rooftops, plus you need up panning and side to side panning. I couldn't see any jaggies in the straight lines with movement. Looked good, that was using my D-VHS machine and the HDA1.

So, just to confirm, you're getting a full 720 lines of resolution and different information from the full 1080 rather than 540 from just one of the interlaced fields upscaled to 720p?

The reason I ask Tom is that many older and on-board processors just take the one field and upscale to 720. Algolith claims the Realta and Dragonfly first takes the 1080i to 1080p with motion adaptive deinterlacing and then scales the 720p from the full 1080p.

So, just to confirm, you're getting a full 720 lines of resolution and different information from the full 1080 rather than 540 from just one of the interlaced fields upscaled to 720p?

The reason I ask Tom is that many older and on-board processors just take the one field and upscale to 720. Algolith claims the Realta and Dragonfly first takes the 1080i to 1080p with motion adaptive deinterlacing and then scales the 720p from the full 1080p.
The Gennum chip deinterlaces 1080i sources, both film and video. It does not upscale from 540.

Optoma put the manual online.

http://www.optomausa.com/Product_detail.asp?productsubcat=3&productcategory=Home+Theater&product_id=292

1366x768p with 48Hz is missing (supported by commercial Panasonic 50" plasmas).

The Gennum chip deinterlaces 1080i sources, both film and video. It does not upscale from 540.

For 720p, not 1080, output?

Here's the direct URL

http://www.optomausa.com/PDFs/usermanuals/Optoma_HD3000_User_Manual.pdf

The manual specifies the Gennum GF9350 VXP video processor chip.

The manual seems fairly straightforward, though a work in progress. (It includes at least two comments that should have been edited out: "Dana: I don't understand this.") The only thing that gives me pause is the statement that inputs are limitted to 1080i. I know that the Gennum chip is a stellar deinterlacer, but there are times when the user will want to pass through a 1080p signal. I thought sure that TzungILin had said that it would take some form of 1080p.

For 720p, not 1080, output?For any output resolution it supports. It first deinterlaces and then scales if scaling is needed. Scaling includes scaling up and down, depending on the resolution of the source and the output resolution.

The manual specifies the Gennum GF9350 VXP video processor chip.

They moved on to the 9351. The first bunch which I saw at the factory were really for the HD7300 and locked at 720p so I found out. I'll try to find out the call numbers for the newer boxes which are due soon. I'll swap for one this way I can use it with the HD72/1280X768 and HT1000/1024X768.

The manual should have some interesting graphics of what the Advanced picture control items can do.

For any output resolution it supports. It first deinterlaces and then scales if scaling is needed. Scaling includes scaling up and down, depending on the resolution of the source and the output resolution.

Thanks Steve, and I wasn't lazy, I did read the manual, but couldn't get a definitive answer.

These processors are going to allow 720p projectors to shine their best with HD source material. I'm pretty sure most of the on-board and earlier processors would take 1080i and only use one field to upscale 540 to 720p.

I'm jazzed because now I can buy a 720p three chipper and not sweat waiting for the best 1080p offering.

I just read the manual and was concerned about how this scaler will perform in a Constant Height scenario. In particular, the manual states that maximum values for Horizontal and Vertical zoom are 150% and 120% respectively.

If I'm not mistaken, it will take at least a vertical zoom of ~133% to fully eliminate the black bars from 2.35 or 2.40:1 encoded movies.

Guitarman: Could you try taking the input from a anamorphically-encoded DVD that is 2.35:1 and see if you can zoom it vertically enough to completely eliminate the black bars from your display?

If not, then this is a HUGE oversight. This type of scaling would also be required for non-anamorphically encoded 1.78:1 or 2.35:1 movies on a 16x9 display. I can't imagine they'd leave this out!


-Dave

It has a Letterbox aspect for users that want to use lenses. It's under format, format one is 16.9, format 3 is Letterbox

It has a Letterbox aspect for users that want to use lenses. It's under format, format one is 16.9, format 2 is Letterbox
Tom,

I noticed that (actually, according to the manual there are 3 hard coded formats, 16x9, 4x3, and native, and 3 user configurable ones of which User Format 3 is preconfigured for Letterbox). Maybe the 120% maximum Vertical Zoom is an error in the manual, because if that was the case it would not be enough zoom to completely do a letterbox zoom.

-Dave

Any news on public availability yet? At $1500 for a Gennum solution, I'm sold!

Within a week or two the latest version should be available but in small amounts to select dealers.

I'll find out more when my buddy gets back from Taiwan end if next week. With an amount of HD82/1080p machines most likely. :)

which dealers???

You know the HD3000 version I had was for the HD7100 projector and locked at 720p. I got an email yesterday and the newer 9351 chipped HD3000 with various output resolutions goes on sale this week. Call your favorite Optoma dealer and have them ask for one. AVS deals with Optoma.

MAP wasn't set as of yesterday but last talk was setting MAP at whatever the street price for the DVDO is.

"I just read the manual and was concerned about how this scaler will perform in a Constant Height scenario. In particular, the manual states that maximum values for Horizontal and Vertical zoom are 150% and 120% respectively."

It doesn't appear like it could handle it as well as some like the Lumagen's. Esp. for those that leave the lenses in place all the time. There isn't a way to specify the output AR for example.

Shawn

Any news on public availability yet? At $1500 for a Gennum solution, I'm sold!

Sorry guys early rumor was off. Pricing just got settled yesterday. MSRP $2999 that's it. Plus you won't see this advertised on the internet. I know it's not good news, my guess is this will keep the value level of the HD7300 and HD81 high.

I guess at this point Optoma is completely off my list. Nobody knows how well Optoma will support this product with firmware upgrades. This makes Lumagen HDQ an even better value.

Where to get that HD3000 in the states?

AVS is an Optoma dealer.

http://www.avscience.com/products.htm

In some other forum I read that the HD 3000 has some problems with a prober inverse telecine?
Can someone, who owns this scaler, tell me if that's true? I mena going from 1080i60 to 1080p48Hz? Are there problems with the recent firmware?