Mitsubishi HC5000 (aka HC5000BL) 1080p LCD MSRP $4,495 [Text View] - Page 4

Jonathan Teller

10-26-06, 02:41 PM

I think we can begin to sum things up from the few, already-posted, reviews...the HC5000 is not perfect and it is not the second coming of Christ, but it is a very good projector :p

I'm not sure what people were expecting with this unit. To me (and to the reviewers who have written so far) it offers a heck of a lot for the price that Mitsubishi is asking. It's all been right there in the specs since the beginning! Rated at 1000 ANSI lumens, uses a dynamic iris and is a LCD projector. Why on Earth are people so shocked that when you use the low lamp mode, adjust it to D65 and zoom out that you end up with something closer to 300-400 lumens? Isn't that extremely typical and normal of a projector rated at 1000 ANSI lumens? According to PC the Mitsu can actually come very close to that rated spec when adjusted for maximum light output at the expense of accuracy. Again, isn't that completely typical and normal?

We've known it uses a dynamic iris and that the new LCD panels have a native contrast ratio of around 1500:1. Why are people so surprised and upset that it can't kill DLP or LCoS in terms of shadow detail? And it still looks like a LCD projector? Well how DARE it! I mean it IS a LCD projector, but to still LOOK like one? That's just unacceptable!

C'mon folks...this thing is obviously very very good. Look at how much you're getting in terms of features (power zoom, focus and lens shift, super duper quiet, unusually long lamp life in low mode, top quality video processing) and then add that it has better on/off contrast and a deeper black level than a DarkChip2 DLP, ANSI contrast similar to the SXRD Pearl and a very sharp almost SDE free image. And all of this is coming it at the lowest price point for any 1080p projector! If it were more expensive or had claimed to be a lot brighter/higher in contrast/not LCD in its specs, then fine, maybe we should have expected more. But to me it looks like Mitsubishi hit this thing out of the park and delivered on exactly what the specs had indicated...whatever else people could have wanted is beyond me.

Jon

rnrgagne

10-26-06, 02:56 PM

ummmm I really don’t ever recall seeing a thread that doesn’t make comparisons?

speculation is all we can do right now and what’s wrong with people talking about their concerns from the projectorcentral review?

Sure the panny review probably should have been linked in another thread but is it really that big of a deal?

I always though forums where put in place to help facilitate discussion but maybe I’m wrong.

Nothing wrong with comparisons, speculation or discussion if it's on topic. There are too many post here that don't even mention the Mits - like the Panny one.

I don't know about you, but when I want to learn about a product on these forums or a specific topic (ie Pearl vs Mits which already has a thread for those interested). It's very frustrating to have to sort through mounds of off-topic issues as it is this thread is over 20 pages. Picture someone that hasn't followed this thread from the beginning like some of us.

rnrgagne

10-26-06, 03:04 PM

buddahead

10-26-06, 03:17 PM

I think you just hit it out of the park. ;)

Yes good post,I hope the Tigers can hit it out of the park tonight.BUDDA :D

acegamer

10-26-06, 03:39 PM

yeah, great post Jon. I think that the more people get the more they want. I guess it's just part of human nature. I never even imagined that I'd be able to get a projector of this calibur for so little money this soon. (Little being relative of course. :) )

noah katz

10-26-06, 04:05 PM

"We've known ... that the new LCD panels have a native contrast ratio of around 1500:1."

We have? AFAIK the only info was many times more CR than the D5, which was rated by an unknown method at a number less than complete pj's were delivering.

By comparison C2Fine pj's should be delivering 2- 3K:1 on/off CR w/o DI.

Herb

10-26-06, 04:15 PM

I might have missed it somewhere...Who is selling this thing and when will it ship?

SasaDF

10-26-06, 04:22 PM

Here I can say to you: in Italy I'm the organizer of a Co Buy, that will bring to the buyers the Mitsu Hc5000 at about or less @3.400 € :eek: :cool:

velvetpoet

10-26-06, 04:58 PM

http://projectorreviews.com/Manufacturers/mitsubishi/HC5000BL/index.asp

wooot another review up

"All that explanation aside, the Mitsubishi HC5000BL does achieve extremely good black levels overall, within the limits of the technology. While, in scenes with more than a little very bright areas, it can't match a DLP projector (they are inherently better at black levels), the performance should satisfy the demands of most fairly critical viewers, and be a non-issue for the vast majority."

"Moving on, to shadow detail. Contrast and Brightness, out of the box were very acceptable, and as a result, the HC5000 did very well in terms of shadow detail
"

anbjornk

10-26-06, 05:37 PM

How come none of them are mentioning the DI ?? :confused:

Edit: How come I didn't see that when I read it :p

velvetpoet

10-26-06, 05:42 PM

he mentions the di.

also of note its a preproduction unit so it might be improved?

"have my usual, slight reservations about dynamic irises. I prefer a Darkchip3 solution for consistantly producing the blackest blacks, to an iris, which will have black levels changing from scene to scene. Like most LCD projectors with dynamic irises, you can occasionally detect it's operation if being observant, however, there are three different Auto Iris settings and I didn't get a chance to really explore the performance differences between them.

That said, I was able to detect the iris at work in several scene changes, and within scenes, in Phantom, and also Serenity, the two movies that I spent the most time with on the HC5000BL (both off of HD-DVD). I didn't find it annoying at all, in fact, it was mostly noticeable only when I was looking for its affect.

Seriously, the Auto Iris/black level issue is the only real complaint I have with the Mitsubishi HC5000BL projector! When the Auto Iris does its thing, on scenes without really bright areas, the HC5000BL delivers really excellent black levels, rivaling my BenQ PE8720. On the scenes mostly dark, but with some very bright areas, those Darkchip3 DLP's do blacker blacks.

Perhaps the really important point here, is that it really was a pleasure watching Phantom, and the 5th Element, and even Sin City (a real challenge for dynamic iris projectors).
"

presenter

10-26-06, 07:00 PM

How come none of them are mentioning the DI ?? :confused:

Edit: How come I didn't see that when I read it :p

Greetings,

What's a DI? have I missed a projector? thought I saw them all at Cedia -a

presenter

10-26-06, 07:09 PM

I just don't get the PC review for the HC5000. It makes no sense. He says that you can fill a 120 inch screen with HC5000, but using 410 lumens on a screen with a gain of 1.0 (about the gain of the screen I'd like to purchase), gives a ftL of 9.1 on low mode and 11.8 on high mode, at the minimum distance from the screen. These numbers would decrease to 6.9 and around 9 ftL if you place the projector the maximum distance from the screen (which is what he recommends). And that's with a brand new bulb! Take 25-50 percent off that during the aging of the bulb. Those are horrendous numbers, even in a pitch black room.

I concur, I think 120 is just too big (unless a very, very high gain screen with limited viewing angle.

Most of us, however end up with less ftl than the optimum, if you want to keep the ftl up around 13 for most of the lamp life (and with lens slightly wide angle), pushing more than 100" is probably not a good idea.

However, I was very comfortable with the Hc5000 on my 106" carada bw (claims 1.4 gain, probalby more like 1.3), with zoom in the middle. (new lamp of course) and with it on standard (full power). With that screen, new lamp, and zoom position, the projector had lumens to spare, in my room with dark brown/beige walls.

For most I'll stick with a 110" maximum recommendation. I'd love to get the Sony in, to see if it really cranks out more lumens. It's nice to hear someone got those measurements, although it goes against most of what I've heard so far. -a

presenter

10-26-06, 07:10 PM

Greetings,

What's a DI? have I missed a projector? thought I saw them all at Cedia -a

Never mind, the brain isn't funcitioning. Didn't see the earlier threads - I now assume DI = dynamic iris. -a correct me if I'm wrong.

anbjornk

10-26-06, 07:14 PM

I now assume DI = dynamic iris. -a correct me if I'm wrong.

Correct :)

The model you tested was a preproduction sample?

Nice review btw.

Per Johnny

10-26-06, 07:20 PM

Correct :)

The model you tested was a preproduction sample?

Nice review btw.

Yes, it is mentioned in the review that it is a pre-production sample.

presenter

10-26-06, 07:23 PM

Correct :)

The model you tested was a preproduction sample?

Nice review btw.

Thanks, yes, that is my understanding. Quite often the review units are the first few off of the production line, before things are finalized, and volume production is ramped up. This has been the case before, and typical of that, it arrived in the US a few days or week ahead of first dealer shipments. due to vacation and having a few other projectors here, I had the HC5000 a full week before I even started the review. It also had a Sample sticker on it, which I haven't seen on Mitsubishi projectors I have reviewed, that came in to me from their PR firm (PR firms usually provide the review units), for other Mitsubishi projectors that I got well after they started shipping.

Keep in mind though, that a unit this close to full production, should be close to final production performance, unlike the occasional review unit that shows up a month before dealer shipments. Really early units (unlike this one), typically have significant problems, and also typically aren't as bright. We've seen that viewing early pre-production projectors at trade shows, etc.

Toe

10-26-06, 07:33 PM

JHouse

10-26-06, 07:51 PM

Projector Central's review:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/mitsubishi_hc5000.htm

Boy does this thing suck.:D

Orwellflash

10-26-06, 07:51 PM

presenter

10-26-06, 08:26 PM

Extremely informative review art. Thanks.

You mentioned that using low power lamp mode affected the color balance, and that you would go into that later. I didn't see anymore about it. Would it require a separate calibration for low lamp mode.

Also, the Sin City still of the girl dancing in the window looked yellowish on the Mit and more grey tone on the Samsung review, which I assume is more accurate. How is the 5000 performance on black and white films in general?

Jack

first oops, I didn't get back to that, I'll re-read, and add.

Here's the scoop however. In low power mode, with the same Color Temp settings, (I only measured 100ire), I measured 7145K, almost 600K cooler, so yes, I would suggest a separate calibration for low power.

There is definitely more yellow content in the Mits on Sin City. I suspect that a full calibration, including secondary colors (Cyan, Yellow, Magenta) would probably affect that, but I don't get that carried away. I should note that the difference tends to be exaggerated by my digital camera, and I see that tendency often.

BTW, that's the whole point of the Samsung. the unit I got, brand new, out of the box (Samsung) basically performed like it has just been professionally calibrated. Thus the price over $1000 more than most other Darkchip2 projectors.

When I mention that the Samsung has the best shadow detail, despite the less than great black levels, again, that's a difference that (at least with equivilent darkchip2 projectors) should also go away with a pro calibration (or amateur, if you have the tools and know what you are doing). I did a side by side of the Samsung with another projector on a frame from the black and white portions of Phantom, and with my camera grays looked dead on, on the samsung and too blue on the other (HD1000 I believe). Again, though the camera exaggerated the difference which to the eye was very, very close, yet I found the image to be unusable because it showed way to much shift between the two projectors.

I had no problem at all watching the scenes from Sin City on the HC5000Bl. Also I just looked back at the bracketed images I shot on the Samsung - from Sin City, the closeup of Nancy, definitely has yellow brown coloring, and in the most overexposed images of the same scene you are talking about I can also pick up some yellow/brown, but far, less than captured with the Mitsu - On the other hand, the car image came out very neutral on both, but on the Mits, you can barely detect a little yellow/brown in the road on the lower right. I will add the closeup of Nancy to the Mits review. I have it, simply failed to include it. I never saw Sin City in the theater's, and since they love to overlay a color here and there, it sure would be nice to see those frames on the original film, to know exactly what they should look like. I probably should have shot the black and white section from Phantom on the Mits, but forgot.... and the projector is at the next reviewers by now. I will get a different HC5000BL in , probably December, to double check that problem I had with my HDTV box. I think I will do a couple more gray images, like Phantom, where I know no color is being added.

shenard

10-26-06, 09:18 PM

I may have missed it in a previous post but when is the estimated street date? A few weeks hopefully? I have to buy a projector in the next three weeks.

presenter

10-26-06, 09:26 PM

Thanks for the great Mits 5000 review Art. Verry informative :)

Sorry if I missed this somewhere, but do you plan to review the Pearl sometime soon? From all acounts (Jason Turk, Cine4home, etc..), it sounds like the calibrated lumens should be an advantage on the Sony. I would be curious to see how the two compare as a lot of others would as well.

Originally Sony indicated I might get one for review by end of this month, but then said they only got a couple of review units, so probably December.

I personally hope the Sony is brighter, I just saw the Panny PT-AE1000U at panasonic a week or so ago, side by side with the AE900u, it's brightness was almost identical, with the AX10000U maybe a touch brighter the way they had it set up. I'd really like to see at least one very bright 1080p in the short term, but I'm not optimistic. I'm in the market to replace my BenQ 8720 with a 1080p as soon as I figure out which one, but with a 128' firehawk, I need as many of those pesky little lumens as I can capture. -a

phisch

10-27-06, 01:00 AM

mill1899

10-27-06, 02:00 AM

Disclaimer, I'm the first to admit that seeing projectors side by side is really the only way to compare them, especially now when thousands more often buys only subtle improvements, but...

At Cedia, the HD81 looked stunning on the 177" screen (I'm a sucker for brightness), The Mitzubishi looked promising, i.e. reasonably bright but the setup and light control (or lack thereof) made it guess work. (Except that in such poorly controlled light, it must be fairly bright or it would wash out badly.)

On the other hand, the Pearl, despite Sony's careful light control and small screen, looked dim, in my opinion not bright enough to be a viable option. This was later confirmed when Sharp used the Pearl to show of its new 1080p unit.

Not argumentative, just genuinely confused that I would see the Pearl as inadequately bright and the Mitz as at least moderately bright and I read several of you talking of the Pearl's light advantage.

enlighten me!

presenter

10-27-06, 02:19 AM

Art

Thanks for the great review on the Mits HC5000. I know that this projector will be most closely compared to the Sony Pearl due to the similiarity in prices. It has been noted that the Sony has had issues with color and brightness uniformity, mis-convergence, and light spill. Did you notice any of these issues with the Mits?

Uniformity was also no problem, of course no projector is perfect, corners are usually a little less bright and the distribution never seems to be perfectly even, but on filling the screen with white, it was also very good. Definitely better than most of the 720p LCD projectors, or for that matter, most of the DLP's.

LCD however has more of a tendency to have a color shift in the background, as I reported on the Ax100. Once again, the Mits was solid, simply put, while calibrating, etc., I never noticed a color shift - not to say there wasn't one, but I was aware of the Panny's, etc. So it had to be very slight at worst.

I did report on light leakage, virtually nothing detectable out of the lens or anywhere facing forward. The usual light visible around fan intakes and exhaust but nothing I noticed in my "theater room" which still has light walls making light more easily visible.

So overall, I give it a clean bill of health on all of your items.

Funny, I don't really focus on most of those points, they tend to come to my attention only when the projector has problems in those areas. -a

PS. Mill1899, someone earlier on the thread published lumen performance on the Pearl from cine4home's review (that I haven't seen), from that review, they had bigger lumen counts on the Sony, than I got on the Mits.

fatjulio

10-27-06, 03:08 AM

Toe

10-27-06, 09:41 AM

tjgar

10-27-06, 09:45 AM

did you happen to get the model # of the new JVC?

Tony

VirusKiller

10-27-06, 09:47 AM

did you happen to get the model # of the new JVC?

TonyIt doesn't have one yet!

BobSalita

10-27-06, 11:00 AM

I'm still confused about video vs. data mode wrt HTPCs. The HC5000 only supports data mode to 1280x1024 but accepts and outputs upto 1920x1080p.

What is the distinction between video and data modes?

When does an HTPC output video vs. data? Is video mode analog only (VGA, component)?

When does an HTPC output data mode? Is it only DVI or HDMI?

What is the difference between HDMI output from a 1080p bluray vs. HDMI output from an HTPC?

SasaDF

10-27-06, 11:32 AM

1)Video Mode : signal VIA HMDI & DVI-D
Data Mode : signal VIA VGA (HD-sub15)

2) THE Htpc goes in data mode when uses the VGA, then in video mode when he goes to VPR via HDMI or DVI-D

3) no

4) none

walk on
sasadf

Orwellflash

10-27-06, 12:09 PM

[QUOTE=presenter]first oops, I didn't get back to that, I'll re-read, and add.

Art:
Perfectly understandable in a review replete with detail. BTW, your reviews are the most useful, comprehensive, and balanced that I have found. As a potential buyer who cannot test these projectors himself, I really need that to make an informed decision. Your assistance in this regard is greatly appreciated and indispensable. I do watch black and white, as well as color, DVD's frequently, so the black and white screen shots are useful. Thanks for the additional information.

Jack

BobSalita

10-27-06, 01:56 PM

SasaDF,

Thanks for the answers. I now understand that VGA can't drive the HC5000 to 1920x1080 resolution. That rules out most notebooks without additional hardware.

Bob.

presenter

10-27-06, 02:07 PM

Art, it's interesting in your review when you compare it to the Sanyo Z5. They seem to give about the same amount of contrast/ shadow detail/ black. And the panels in the Z5 have half the native contrast of the Mits. Can't wait to see what Sanyo will do with their 1080P model.

I can't either, but I don't think we'll see their 1080p until Feb or later. Hey they still haven't shipped the Z5 (though very very soon.).

I just got a confirming email back from the folks at Mitsubishi.

The first shipment of HC5000's is heading to the dealers "before the end of this month" (which sounds a lot like "next monday or tuesday". -art

rnrgagne

10-27-06, 03:09 PM

I can't either, but I don't think we'll see their 1080p until Feb or later. Hey they still haven't shipped the Z5 (though very very soon.).

I just got a confirming email back from the folks at Mitsubishi.

The first shipment of HC5000's is heading to the dealers "before the end of this month" (which sounds a lot like "next monday or tuesday". -art

Wow, like I posted earlier, my dealer here in Canada told me that Mits told him end of Dec early January.

Please don't tell me that the US is getting them two months ahead of us Canucks :(

presenter

10-27-06, 03:14 PM

Wow, like I posted earlier, my dealer here in Canada told me that Mits told him end of Dec early January.

Please don't tell me that the US is getting them two months ahead of us Canucks :(

Well I guess you can always move down here, the US just broke 300,000,000 population, I guess we have room for one more home theater addict. -art

SasaDF

10-27-06, 03:15 PM

I can't either, but I don't think we'll see their 1080p until Feb or later. Hey they still haven't shipped the Z5 (though very very soon.).

I just got a confirming email back from the folks at Mitsubishi.

The first shipment of HC5000's is heading to the dealers "before the end of this month" (which sounds a lot like "next monday or tuesday". -art

@ART : Your articles are the best in THE WORLD, also here in ITALY(www.avfoum.it) You're considered the best, Thnaks for your services...

About the shipping: I talked with the Italian Mitsubishi KEY ACCOUNT MANAGER, and he said that here in Italy we'll see the first mitsu in the local dealer only at the end of november!!! :confused: :eek: :( :( :(

walk on
sasadf

PLB

10-27-06, 05:18 PM

The LCD panels are reported as inorganic in the Projector Central review. Are these in fact the long anticipated D6 or C2Fine panels?

If these are the C2Fine panels which were reported to have low light leak vertically aligned crystals, why are their black levels not drammatically better? The Mits 5000 appears to have good but not great black levels. There were articles that suggested that the C2Fine panels would acheive blacks better than any DLP projector could.

Why is the bulb only 160 watts? The direct competitor Sony has a 200 watt bulb and the Optoma sports a 300 watt bulb. I can understand using only a low watt bulb if you afraid of frying the LCDs but I would have thought inorganic (non-fading) panesl woul have allowed much more ummph.

SasaDF

10-27-06, 06:38 PM

The LCD panels are reported as inorganic in the Projector Central review. Are these in fact the long anticipated D6 or C2Fine panels?

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/2306/introvv0.jpg

;)

Walk on
sasadf

cpc

10-27-06, 06:48 PM

In addition to how it compares to the Pearl and other 1080 LCD/LCOS pj's, even though the resolutions are different, I think comparing the HC5000BL and other 1080p C2Fine lcd projectors with the Sanyo Z4/Z5, Panasonic AE900/AX100, Hitachi TX200 and Sony HS51A/60 would tell us how the blacks and contrast levels are for the potential upgraders. We want to know how much better the HC5000 is than our current pj's.

chriscic

10-27-06, 11:58 PM

Anyone (reviewer?) know if overscan can be turned off, as as it can be with the Pearl for example? Or if not how much the overscan is?

I have loved my HS10 but it's got a ton of overscan and I've always hated that... lose close to 20% of the picture which is just silly.

Thanks for the review Evan!

-Chris C.

mill1899

10-28-06, 01:28 AM

Hey Mill1899. I was also at Cedia and saw all these projectors (did you see the new JVC? WOW!) and none of them looked any brighter than the others to me personally. I do know in the Sony setup they were switching sometimes between low and high lamp for people to see the difference (they did this one of the times I was in there), so maybe you saw on low lamp? Maybe not, just a guess. I know the Mits and JVC that I saw in the deadicated off site theaters were both running in high lamp, atleast according to the demo guys. The Mits was also setup on a slightly higher gain FH compared to the Pearl (atleast in the deadicated area) which may have something to do with it. Who knows....

First, thanks Toe (and Art too, your review is much appreciated!) Don't know how I missed the JVC...Rats!

I know I would be out of step had I not gone to Cedia, but that experience was not sufficient to choose projectors, too much "smoke and mirrors"...and not enough as well. It's the late nights reading this forum and the reviews that is the real help...Thanks!

...By the way, a small suggestion, perhaps a little more "tell us how you really feel" stuff would be good.

presenter

10-28-06, 02:47 AM

presenter

10-28-06, 02:57 AM

Why is the bulb only 160 watts? The direct competitor Sony has a 200 watt bulb and the Optoma sports a 300 watt bulb. I can understand using only a low watt bulb if you afraid of frying the LCDs but I would have thought inorganic (non-fading) panesl woul have allowed much more ummph.

Greetings,

Can't tell you why, but I noticed the low power lamp, too. I even suggested to Mits, that they should come out with an HC5000-Xtreme - by popping in a 240 watt lamp, and speeding up the fan, etc.

Considering the HC5000 is the quietest projector around, a faster, slighly noisier fan wouldn't be a problem.

Anyway, they said they would probably bounce that idea over to Japan. But of course, even if they decided to do it, it would probably take 4-6 months.

I think it would be great though, if they do something like that!

Potetgullmannen

10-28-06, 06:46 AM

Originally Sony indicated I might get one for review by end of this month, but then said they only got a couple of review units, so probably December.

I personally hope the Sony is brighter, I just saw the Panny PT-AE1000U at panasonic a week or so ago, side by side with the AE900u, it's brightness was almost identical, with the AX10000U maybe a touch brighter the way they had it set up. I'd really like to see at least one very bright 1080p in the short term, but I'm not optimistic. I'm in the market to replace my BenQ 8720 with a 1080p as soon as I figure out which one, but with a 128' firehawk, I need as many of those pesky little lumens as I can capture. -a

Great review, very informative. I've also seen the Mits HC 5000 myself a few weeks ago here in Norway. This was also a pre-production model I think, with the DI not 100% working. Or so I was told. Still, I think it looked great. Long story short - I've ordered one already.

Now I'm trying to figure out which screen to order for it. The projector will be used for watching movies in our living room with no lights on. Light from windows is also no issue. The walls and the ceiling are white though.

I'm going for a rigid frame screen to hang on the wall, and the largest possible screen here is 92'. Which is considerably smaller than your 128'.

Do you think a 92' Adeo Greyvision Plano Delux frame - which has a light grey screen with a gain of 1.0 will do? Like I said, use of ambient light or daytime watching is out of the question.

es347

10-28-06, 11:06 AM

Would someone please direct me to the review message by PRESENTER? I have gone way back in this thread and can't find it. Thanks.

muncey

10-28-06, 11:11 AM

http://www.projectorreviews.com/Manufacturers/mitsubishi/HC5000BL/index.asp

muncey

Alex512

10-28-06, 07:32 PM

Great review. Thank You Art. Was very informative.

JaniH

10-30-06, 02:21 PM

The well known Japanese site says now the release date in Japan is in "the beginning of November" (11/7) as opposed to previous "middle of November" (was it 11/12?).

Alex512

10-30-06, 02:52 PM

Just placed my order with AVS through Jason. Very excited!

fleaman

10-30-06, 08:16 PM

Projector Central's review:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/mitsubishi_hc5000.htm

Boy does this thing suck.:D

Well, at least PJ Central's review of it does. Notice not one single word about contrast/shadow detail was even mentioned? And yet they gave it a Solid 5 star rating :rolleyes:. Are they drinking on the job?

Thank god for Art. It seems his reviews get even more detailed and more realistic than you can ever imagine.

Fleaman

Tom Bley

10-30-06, 08:57 PM

Well, at least PJ Central's review of it does. Notice not one single word about contrast/shadow detail was even mentioned? And yet they gave it a Solid 5 star rating :rolleyes:. Are they drinking on the job?

Thank god for Art. It seems his reviews get even more detailed and more realistic than you can ever imagine.

Fleaman

That's exactly what I thought about Projector Centrals review. A review that only points out the pluses.

Toe

10-30-06, 10:14 PM

millerwill

10-30-06, 10:19 PM

I think the choice between the Pearl and 5000 is a no brainer if the few $ difference is not an issue.

Toe

10-30-06, 10:21 PM

Why do you say that exactly?

millerwill

10-30-06, 10:38 PM

Well, I was very impressed by GregR's WSR review; it answered many of the questions in my mind about the Pearl. E.g. the video processing. Its only shortcoming is not having as crisp pic as a 1-chip dlp; this is important to me, but I think that the sxrd pic is certainly better than a lcd. And the Pearl is MUCH brighter than the Mits 5000.

Toe

10-30-06, 10:41 PM

I have not read the WSR review yet, but will. It sounds like it got great marks in the processing which is a real plus!

chriscic

10-31-06, 09:04 AM

And the Pearl is MUCH brighter than the Mits 5000.

Why do you say that? I didn't read the WSR review but I believe the Mits review posted here said 9xx lumens out of the box. Was the Pearl higher? Or perhaps you mean after calibration?

Cheers,
-Chris

VirusKiller

10-31-06, 09:29 AM

After D65 calibration, Pearl is considerably higher.

Toe

10-31-06, 09:32 AM

The out of box numbers are similar, but after calib, Pearl is considerably brighter.

thenewbruno

10-31-06, 09:56 AM

Art,

Your review (which was fantastic) mentions that the 5000 did not recognize the signal from your cable box when connected via HDMI. Was this perhaps due to the versions of HDMI present being different? ie. is the 5000's HDMI port a version 1.3 and the cable box output a version 1.1 or 1.2?

I'm currently efforting to determine if the HDMI terminals on all the items I want to buy (projector, PS3, receiver etc.) are compatible. I have read that folks have bought items with HDMI ports only to find that they have compatibility issues.

Specifically, see the review on cnet of the Yamaha 5990 receiver. Sorry but I'm new so I can't yet post links on here. 3 more posts to go.

One guy's "user opinion" rates the receiver 2/10 because of not being able to pass his cable box through via HDMI. Folks commenting on his review point out that the versions of HDMI being different was the culprit.

Just a possibility I suppose. I'm certainly finding it to be a pain in the butt to find listings of what versions of HDMI everyone is using with their stuff.

rnrgagne

10-31-06, 11:40 AM

I cant take the PC review seriously either. The calibrated lumen output is not that great, they dont mention the noticable DI, shadow detail maybe good, but not great, etc. How can a projector get perfect 5's with these issues? Art's review was verry genuine and gave you a good feel for the projectors +'s and -'s.

I am still torn between this and the Pearl as they both have issues that bother me. Noticable DI/low lumens/not the best shadow detail of the 5000. Color uniformity issues with the Pearl.

You have to take PC's reviews with a grain of salt as with any. They tend to rate PJ's more on a price/preformace scale rather than how close to "perfect" is the unit.

On the DI, I don't think that anyone has reviewed a production unit yet with a finalized DI (which may account for the delay in availability.) and you have the option of not using it. Also I think the shadow detail "weakness" has been taken a bit out of context. From what I recall it was said to be "close" to Samsung 710 which was said to be excellent. So close to excellent isn't too shabby.
And also the lumen output hasn't been reported as low, but as average. So that should only be of concern to those looking for a light canon or a huge screen. It appears that the Sony will be brighter, but will it be bright enough to make a difference in either of those scenarios?
The question I had on the Pearl was the processing and that's supposed to be quite good.
Have fun making your decision.

anbjornk

10-31-06, 12:37 PM

As far as I know, no one has reviewed a production unit yet. Because of this, all the "flaws" on the pre production unit might be sorted (DI, Shadowdetail etc). Atleast that's what I'm hoping for :D

ctviggen

10-31-06, 02:14 PM

From what I recall it was said to be "close" to Samsung 710 which was said to be excellent. So close to excellent isn't too shabby.

Check out the pictures here:

http://www.projectorreviews.com/Manufacturers/Samsung/SP-H710ae/imagequality.asp

When I look at these, the Samsung appears to be much better in shadow detail. If the Samsung didn't have so many start up problems, I'd consider it.

rnrgagne

10-31-06, 05:49 PM

Check out the pictures here:

http://www.projectorreviews.com/Manufacturers/Samsung/SP-H710ae/imagequality.asp

When I look at these, the Samsung appears to be much better in shadow detail. If the Samsung didn't have so many start up problems, I'd consider it.

Interesting, I was going by the verbal comments of the reviewer and didn't put any weight to the actual pics. Are they really a legitimate tool to draw conclusions from? My guess would be no, but I don't know for sure.

Toe

10-31-06, 06:14 PM

FremontRich

10-31-06, 06:36 PM

I would not think that Mits would send out a 5000 to be reviewed that was not 99% of the final unit, but I could be wrong. The brightness advantage of the Pearl is a definate plus and equates to about a 200 lumen calibrated difference. The one big advantage the 5000 had was the processing, but that gap is quite a bit narrower than initially expected as the Pearl processing has been reported to be surprisingly great. I am still on the fence with both of these PJ's, but I dont see the 5000 topping or equaling the Pearl.

Seems to me one can equalize the lack of lumens of the Mits by purchasing Da-Lite's High Power screen. :rolleyes:

Toe

10-31-06, 06:44 PM

Only if one can put there projector at a suitable height for the HP screen which I, and many others, cannot with a ceiling mounted projector :rolleyes:

Alex512

10-31-06, 07:20 PM

Could someone post WSR review.

rnrgagne

10-31-06, 08:32 PM

I would not think that Mits would send out a 5000 to be reviewed that was not 99% of the final unit, but I could be wrong. The brightness advantage of the Pearl is a definate plus and equates to about a 200 lumen calibrated difference. The one big advantage the 5000 had was the processing, but that gap is quite a bit narrower than initially expected as the Pearl processing has been reported to be surprisingly great. I am still on the fence with both of these PJ's, but I dont see the 5000 topping or equaling the Pearl.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong , but wouldn't Dynamic Iris require some type of programming that "reads" the input signal then adjusts the iris before or simultaneous to the output? If that's the case they could still be working on that programming. And as long as the mechanical part can handle the speed couldn't that mean it's a software upgrade-able function down the road?

tvted

10-31-06, 08:49 PM

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong , but wouldn't Dynamic Iris require some type of programming that "reads" the input signal then adjusts the iris before or simultaneous to the output? If that's the case they could still be working on that programming. And as long as the mechanical part can handle the speed couldn't that mean it's a software upgrade-able function down the road?

Real time GAMMA adjust / Iris change dependent on APL. Mechanical issues might be end stop/overshoot, noise.

Is there an external user port? If so will it be made use of is the question if not firmware changes might be service based.
Ick!

So, yep, you right.

ted

FremontRich

10-31-06, 09:20 PM

Only if one can put there projector at a suitable height for the HP screen which I, and many others, cannot with a ceiling mounted projector :rolleyes:

I'm aware HP screens are retro-reflective but some gain can still achieved by adjusting the height of the projector so that the angle between the projector and the viewer is minimized. :rolleyes:

Toe

10-31-06, 09:38 PM

you are right, but then you stand up and realize how great it COULD be :rolleyes: . This would drive me nuts. With my viewing angles, and many others with a ceiling mount PJ, I would not get more than about 1.3 gain out of the HP. I would be better off with a standard 1.3 gain screen that would show the same picture at EVERY seat in my theater.

I actually really like the HP screen, and am not saying anything negative about the material, it is awesome. HOWEVER, in some setups it simply offers no advantage over a 1.3 or less gain screen, mine being one of them. If you can get a good amount of the gain still from a ceiling mount projector (can be determined by figuring the angles), and dont mind the change in brightness from one seat to another, or simply dont have that issue in your setup, then the HP is a fantastic option. It is not the cureall for everyone however as you seem to think :rolleyes:

jacksonian

10-31-06, 10:26 PM

Check out the pictures here:

http://www.projectorreviews.com/Manufacturers/Samsung/SP-H710ae/imagequality.asp

When I look at these, the Samsung appears to be much better in shadow detail. If the Samsung didn't have so many start up problems, I'd consider it.
Yeah, I'm not crazy about those pics. I just hate DLP. But the more I try to watch my Panasonic 500, the more I realize I'm missing tons of shadow detail.

I sure would love to have those blacks and that shadow detail in a pj that didn't have tons of QC problems and most importantly didn't give me headaches.

VirusKiller

11-01-06, 03:12 AM

The brightness advantage of the Pearl is a definate plus and equates to about a 200 lumen calibrated difference.That's a big difference. A difference of almost 10ftL on my 83" screen.

... as the Pearl processing has been reported to be surprisingly great.LOL! It's good, but not that great! There are concerns in non-USA-land over the PAL video and 2:2 pulldown deinterlacing performance.

Could someone post WSR review.Erm. That would be in breach of copyright.

vigga

11-01-06, 07:29 AM

WSR reviews are copyrighted material. They have made specific requests for us not to post the articles. You can access them by subscribing to widescreen review (either online or print)-

SasaDF

11-01-06, 08:05 AM

nats24

11-01-06, 08:17 AM

I noticed that a certain dealer has backed off the big discount it was advertising on its website and is back to MSRP. It looks like Jason's earlier comment was spot on:

"Pertaining to the post on the powerbuy...no can do. Mitsu is very protective of this piece. In fact, there are already some places posting extremely low pricing. Rest assured they will NOT be getting any units at that price and likely will be losing the line. It's a very protected piece."

VirusKiller

11-01-06, 08:48 AM

HEY People, you were making little problems BIG ISSUES, and this is NOT good!! :O

THe Mitsu HAS the REON scaler, well, only the REALTA (even Silicon Graphics chip!) is better.

If you use in a darkened Home Theater the mitsu, it is not bright like another one you have already had!!!

I don't think there is in the world someone that looks a film in a open light bright room....it is a contraddiction!!!

I've never seen a CINEMA that uses lights during the projection!!!

COME'on!! Let's make suggestions ONLY when the Mitsu will be the King of our theaater!!!!

walk on
sasadfI'm sorry, but what it this all about?

1) I don't think that the quality of image processing of the HC5000 is in question. Or maybe you mistook the comments about the Pearl's processing for the Mitsu's?

2) Gennum (VXP chip) might have something to say about your unqualified statement that nothing is better than the Reon/Realta. So might the folks at Anchor Bay Technologies.

3) The light output of the properly calibrated HC5000 is significantly lower than it's major rival, the Pearl. For those with large screens in their fully darkened theatres the light output is a potential show-stopper.

4) For $4000 (or whatever this streets at) I think we're entitled to dig deeply.

5) I do admire your enthusiasm in this projector though...

SasaDF

11-01-06, 09:10 AM

1) I'm sorry but I've read someone who is complaining this like a big issue in the Mitsu; of course I don't think this is right....

2)....in fact the Reon is a good scaler: The VXP, IMHO is below the silicon Graphic chips... I've seen both in TAV (MILAN 14/17 september this Year), and in the Crystalio II i Noticed that the Gennum it isn't capable to resolve many problems, like the aliasing and other litlle problems with the deinterlacing....The ABT is lovely:i use it in mine Marantz Dv9600....

3) I'm sorry, you were right here: I've considered my personal statement considering my HT screen wide 82" (180cm base): But explain me one thing: in Mitsubishi are they all mad, considering that they have presented at CEDIA in TOKYO it in a large screen with 3,5m base?!?! :what:

4) YESSSSS for sure, but not discovering issues also where they aren't!!!!!

5) I'm not so enthusiast:I Loved The EPSON VPR. In fact, here in Europe we are waiting the 17th november: day where EPSON Finally will present His new Full HD Projector Epson Tw-1000, and we will know the price of this item... The Panny is a little bit Higher in Pricing ( in Eu they're asking 4.600€), and also the PEARL is at this price level( still more: 4.990 €)
As you can see, in Europe the situation is a little bit different than in the U.S.(where the Pearl and the Mitsu in pricing are almost equal : consider that I'm completing in this days a co buy with Mitsubishi Italia, and I Will Buy the HC5000 at a price lower than 3.5 K€......

Sorry for My bad English: in Italy they don't use this language, and these are the only occasions that I can use it.....;)

walk on
sasadf

VirusKiller

11-01-06, 09:44 AM

No worries. Hey - your English is rather better than my Italian...

ht-maestro

11-01-06, 12:50 PM

Hi SasaDF ,

look the Mits HC 5000 Cine4Home Test is out ;) :D

Link: Cine4Home HC 5000 test (http://www.cine4home.de/)

Happy to see you on AVSforum

Ciao!!

Ht-maestro

acegamer

11-01-06, 01:06 PM

SasaDF

11-01-06, 01:51 PM

Hi SasaDF ,

look the Mits HC 5000 Cine4Home Test is out ;) :D

Link: Cine4Home HC 5000 test (http://www.cine4home.de/)

Happy to see you on AVSforum

Ciao!!

Ht-maestro

HI Ferdinand (:D)

How the hell Can I translate in English the "CRUCCO" language?!?! :rolleyes: :o

wpwj40e

11-01-06, 01:52 PM

Hi SasaDF ,

look the Mits HC 5000 Cine4Home Test is out ;) :D

Link: Cine4Home HC 5000 test (http://www.cine4home.de/)

Happy to see you on AVSforum

Ciao!!

Ht-maestro

While my german is not very good...the results appear to be very good. Can you elaborate on the lumen output after calibration? It appears quite a bit higher than some of the other prior reviews?

Thanks
Therese

adidadi

11-01-06, 02:00 PM

I can't believe we have a member from Frosinone on the forum:-) I have a very dear friend who lives in Frosinone. I have been out there MANY times and installed his theatre for him. Sorry for the OT, but big coincidence.

SasaDF

11-01-06, 02:03 PM

:OT: HI adidadi!!! :eek: :D I Will contact you in MP;) :OT OFF:

I've tried to translate in English with the google Toolbar but in vain!! :confused: :(

Potetgullmannen

11-01-06, 02:05 PM

While my german is not very good...the results appear to be very good. Can you elaborate on the lumen output after calibration? It appears quite a bit higher than some of the other prior reviews?

Thanks
Therese

They measured 440 in Eco mode and 600 in High Mode (or whatever it's called). And they conclude with this:

With up to 600 lumens during correct color representation the HC5000 belongs clearly to the brighter projectors, which can illuminate also display widths over 3m problem-free. The presentation on the IFA of this year was a very good example. And one should need for occasional applications more light reserves (for example to TV-Schauen on low light conditions), then offers the Beamer up to 1100 lumens light reserves

Potetgullmannen

wpwj40e

11-01-06, 02:57 PM

They measured 440 in Eco mode and 600 in High Mode (or whatever it's called). And they conclude with this:
Potetgullmannen

Thanks! I was having some difficulty in figuring out the various modes. I was relating the numbers to Art's recent review where he stated about 440 in high and about 376 in econo.

However, he was also using cinema mode I believe and I could not tell which mode cine4home was using.

However, it also appears similar to the Pearl that the shortest throw will produce a brighter picture and I could not tell what the throw was when cine4home measured. So a bit of variability - hence my question:)

Oh what a dilemna - which 1080p PJ to get:) The HD81 simply will not work in our room - so back to Mitsu/Sony...maybe Panny...and at the rate I am making decisions - the JVC will probably be out!

Therese

Swearengen

11-01-06, 06:14 PM

My oh my. I've been quite happy with my Z4 for a year, but am preparing myself for the eventual upgrade to HD.

I've tried to follow the ongoing debate about the Pearl, Optoma, Mitsubishi and soon the Panasonic. I almost managed to convince myself last week to jump for the Mitsubishi, given it's great specs, low noise and good praise. And now we have three very good reviews from PC, PR and Cinehome.

But having seen pictures and heard, what the Samsung 710 is capable of delivering as a 720p DLP 2 chip projector, I believe it wisest to calm myself for another 6 months.

It occured to me, that I really should focus much more on the picture, the color and not least, the shadow detail, than the specs. Now I know exactly what I want. I want the images with the phenomenal colors and shadow detail the Samsung 710 is capable of delivering. I want it in 1080p, with better blacks, and noise level not above the Z4. The pricetag will be around 5.000€ for me to be remotely interested, so it will probably be a while.

But I'm quite sure, that Sanyo has an ace up their sleeve and will be able to produce something quite close to what I've described, spring next year. History shows, prizes will take a plunge when a new technology is beeing introduced and competition rises. Already, the Sanyo Z5 with its older panels, delivers good blacks and contrast, now calibrated colors and low noise. I believe they will be able to make it even better with the upcoming Z-HD1 1080 projector. But will it have as beautiful an image as the Samsung 710, with so much detail revealed or will Samsung still triumph with a 1080p Joe Kane calibrated projector?

I'll definetely wait and see!

Alex512

11-01-06, 08:01 PM

Here's the user manual.

http://www.projectorpeople.com/SLIS/downloads/manuals/Mitsubishi/MITHC5000_manual.pdf

Toe

11-01-06, 08:07 PM

Hopefully a cine4home 5000/Pearl face off in the works? I am sure many would love to see this, and with as thorough as cine4home is, it would be great if they would do it, hint, hint ;)

Or just make it short guys....Which projector would you choose between these 2 after the extensiver reviews on both? :)

stef2

11-01-06, 10:32 PM

look the Mits HC 5000 Cine4Home Test is out ;) :D

Link: Cine4Home HC 5000 test (http://www.cine4home.de/)

Could someone who reads german or babblefish tell me how was the contrast and shadow detail as described by Cine4Home?? I am happily surprised to see they found this PJ to be brighter than expected, now if the contrast is similar to the Pearl, my choice is made :)

mpjohnst

11-01-06, 11:22 PM

Here is the review translated via babelfish: Cine4Home Mits Review BabelFish (http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=de_en&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cine4home.de%2Ftests%2Fprojektoren%2FMi tsubishiHC5000%2FHC5000Test.htm)
Here it is again using Google: Cine4Home Mits Review Google (http://66.249.93.104/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&langpair=de%7Cen&u=http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/MitsubishiHC5000/HC5000Test.htm&prev=/language_tools)

The reason I posted it twice is that the babelfish one often craps out on long pages like their reviews (that is good for us!). You have to keep refreshing to get it to work. The Google translate seems to work more reliably but stops translating after a certain amount of text... on Cine4Home reviews that is usually the juicy bits at the end. Best of luck.

By the way, here are some tidbits...

One of many sultry shots of the new beast. You'd think this was pornography or something.... especially when he takes a peak under the hood!

http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/MitsubishiHC5000/Pic71.jpg

CONTRAST
Below is screen cap I took of the contrast table. It basically said top end lumens don't change in any of the modes so the iris always opens up all the way on bright scenes. The agressiveness of the iris changes how much it clamps down. It is strange though as I would have figure Auto3 would be the most aggressive but it has lower CR than Auto2...

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/4817/contrastxe3.jpg

LENS SHARPNESS AND CONVERGENCE
The optics sound awesome with no visible sharpness loss, and convergence was great as well with only a 1/2 pixel or less on the blue panel (that will vary unit to unit though)...

http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/MitsubishiHC5000/Pic58.jpg

SCALING AND DEINTERLACING
The Reon seemed to excellent for 720p, 1080i, 480 but PAL film mode could be bit better. That said, just because it could be better, doesn't mean the Reon still didn't outperform many PAL targeted projectors with the same material. I think this exact (machine) quote sums it up:
Without a doubt the scaling characteristics of the HC5000 are good enough, so that an external Scaler becomes redundant the picture improvement.

SHADING
This is color uniformity... I think. It sounds like it is the barely present but not distracting. I'll let you interpret the results for yourself... (translated)
A ungleichmaessge color temperature in the picture is not a LCD typical characteristic, but one, with which each 3-Chip-Projektor has to fight. Fortunately the manufacturers developed here in the meantime digital balance possibilities, so that can be worked against.

Our test equipment (normal series) exhibited a continuous color distribution, disturbing Shading was not to be constituted. In uniform grey surfaces one could recognize an easy shift in the reddish to the right boundary regions, however so subtly that these were invisible in the film picture. If this standard is held with all devices, then no problems are to be expected here.

VERTICAL BANDING
Ekkehart says it best...
Finally we are concerned with a much discussed LCD artifact, that vertically Banding (vertical banding). But we can make it short: The new, inorganically developed D6-Panels von Epson with shortened control courses do not exhibit no more vertically Banding. Even in homogeneous grey surfaces no banding was to be constituted. In other words: The HC5000 does not have vertically Banding.

HDTV/OVERALL PICTURE PERFORMANCE
This was a long section and I'm bored so I'll just post it for y'all...
Who read the test completely to this way and not directly on this result jumped, which will have already noticed it: The Mitsubishi HC5000 cuts off in most of our test disciplines very exemplary. This becomes also apparent, if one looks films with it:

The color representation is trimmed ex factory absolutely on naturalness and lets the film colors appear in such a way, how the film producers intended it. By a good color area and an exact white alignment everything does not work a disturbing supersaturation of the colors, as it is aimed at not rarely within the LCD range, is naturally, also with the HC5000 topic. As much we expect accuracy in this preisklasse.

Something similar applies to the brightness distribution. By akkurate factory settings the projector supplies a plastic picture, with which all elements are so illuminated, as it is to be. Thus the naturalness profits clearly. Still further Presets would have been desirable, which is optimized on black home cinema areas, but owing to the sophisticated Gammaequalizers the user can put on here hand. In order to let also dark scenes natural work, the projector has an adaptive lichtblende. Those makes its work good, but we have reason to the criticism nevertheless: Now and then it can of the experienced eye wahregnommen to become, there goes technically still more. Who deactivates the screen, it must live completely without iris whereby the schwarzwert suffers. Nichtdestotrotz has the HC5000 a leg-printing in picture plasticity, which is to due among other things to the new panel technology.

In things signal processing likewise convinced us the projector. The HQV prepares the picture stung sharply, without working thereby artificially exaggerated. It is impressing, which it can do from conventional PAL material charms. The film mode weaknesses are unnecessary and disturbing with Interlaced passing on. Here a better work programming could have led to a more stable PAL Filmmode. Therefore there is unfortunately point departure in the De-Interlacing.

Remain the feared LCD artifacts: Also here is to be noted much property: By the high native resolution of over 2 megapixels the distances of the pixels are so small that they are not noticeable in the film. The easy convergence shift of the projector is sufficient already, in order to make these distances of still invisible. Thus we are with the convergence, which does not precipitate perfectly, but for a 3-Chip projector as normal to regard is and in for instance on Sony VPL-VW50/100 level lies. Likewise to the Vergangenheiet belong with the HC5000 Shadingprobleme and vertically Banding. In other words: The LCD technology catches up powerfully, particularly it not under rainbow effects, Dithering and False Contour suffers!

Finally we gegoennt ourselves the pleasure to feed the HC5000 with native HDTV material from Bluray and HP-DVD to. The results were outstanding: The high-quality signal processing of the projector uses reliably high native resolution and brings the picture so sharply on the canvas, as it is also digitally stored on the disk. In films such as phantom OF the Opera, million dollar baby, Swordfish etc. were to be constituted also smallest details in total ones outstanding. The 1080i passing on the Toshiba XA1 did not bring the HQV thereby likewise in embarrassment, to sovereign prepares it the filmmaterial. As much fun makes HDTV with no 720p projector, at least not with display widths starting from 2,5m. In connection with the few artifacts of the new media, with which also no additional artifacts are more hinzugeschummelt by the projection technology, it is to be struck an easy, the local public cinema in things image quality. Owners of the HC5000 will go more rarely into the cinema, are certain.

SHADOW DETAIL/CLOSING THOUGHTS
Finally at the very end of the review he mentions something about shadow detail... Sounds like it still isn't as good as DLP or LCOS/SXRD (my bolding)
About the image quality already everything was said, in this preisklasse sets the HC5000 particularly in things image definition and detail representation new yardsticks. LCD artifacts belong to a large extent the courseness. Only in things contrast and picture depth are still superior the competition technologies, what however it does not mean that the HC5000 works here badly.

All in all the HC5000 is a successful throw, with which the buyer comes for his money fully at his expense. We can recommend only a personal demonstration with a specialist dealer in your proximity. But note: It can happen that it with € 3990. - fewer moneys and a cardboard box under the arm spontaneously again leave the restaurant! : -)

FINAL TALLY
+ very good processing
+ almost inaudibly quietly, also in the rear enterprise quietly
+ flexible list with much comfort
+ clear operation
+ many options
+ few LCD artifacts
+ very good color balance ex factory
+ image definition

- PAL Filmmode with clear weaknesses
- occasional perceptible function of the adaptive screen
- color area not perfectly tunably on video standard
- easy convergence shifts
- little horizontal Lensshift

Whew... I'm spent. Enjoy.
-Matt

VirusKiller

11-02-06, 04:16 AM

I need to have a good read of the review and the manual when I have more time (and when I can get hold of a decent translation). However, I have to take issue with the comment that an external video processor is no longer necessary.

With this PJ, you are paying a premium for a "quality" video processing solution. NTSC video and film material deinterlacing may be excellent, but there is far more to video processing than that. The PAL deinterlacing issues are very concerning and possibly a showstopper for many outside of the US. Remember, the Pearl is not too far away in price...

The HC5000's gamma adjustment is crude by current VP standards and none of the noise reduction algorithms work on 720p, 1080i and 1080p signals (gulp!). Is the Reon limited in its processing power in this regard? Given this thing is not D65 out of the box, the more parameters you can play with, the better. I simply don't see the flexibility and tweakability of an external video processor.

hanser

11-02-06, 08:23 AM

The PAL deinterlacing issues are very concerning and possibly a showstopper for many outside of the US. Remember, the Pearl is not too far away in price...

unfortunately the Pearl does not seem to have any PAL filmmode, according to the cine4home review as well as a review in a respected German AV magazin (Audiovision). So, it is even worse for PAL deinterlacing.

But I must confess to be disappointed by the Mits PAL performance; I hoped that the highly respected scaling chip would even improve on my Denon 2910, which is OK, but not perfect in deinterlacing. Does not seem to be the case...

Toe

11-02-06, 09:25 AM

What exactly is PAL?

Diarmuid

11-02-06, 09:26 AM

What I find baffling is that at D65 with the auto iris off they are only getting a 750:1 contrast ratio. With the new C2fine panels??!! That's worse than the old D5 panels.

VirusKiller

11-02-06, 09:28 AM

Yes, the lack of Pearl PAL mode is a shame, but I had assumed from the outset that an outboard VB would be required (I have a Crystalio VPS2300 that *should* work (in theory) with a Pearl). I've always viewed the Pearl as an expensive, but fantastic value monitor.

However, one of the key selling points of the HC5000 was the processing. Failure to deliver that makes the PJ a lot less attractive. For PAL users the premium for the Reon processing isn't worth it and you might as well push that little extra for a Pearl... Alternatively, the Panny and Epson now warrant serious consideration if they are cheaper. For NTSC users, the Mits is a great option. It's possible that a firmware upgrade may improve things.

I'll just keep reminding myself that we have 25% extra resolution in PAL SD. :)

VirusKiller

11-02-06, 09:29 AM

What exactly is PAL?You are joking, right?

Toe

11-02-06, 09:31 AM

No, I seriously dont know! I dont know everything about all this stuff, sorry :eek:

VirusKiller

11-02-06, 10:05 AM

Not to worry. PAL is basically the TV standard that was adopted in Europe - our analogue of NTSC if you like. The key thing in the context of this discussion is that our electricity operates at 50Hz, not 60Hz. So PAL is based on displaying 50 interlaced fields per second.

But movies and most high-budget TV shows are filmed at 24 full frames per second. In NTSC countries, 24fps material is telecined into the 3:2:3:2 interlaced field pattern. This is quite easy to detect and obtain the original 24 frames from the 60 interlaced fields per second.

But the easiest way of displaying 24fps material on a PAL system is to speed up playback slightly to 25 frames per second and interlace in a 2:2 pattern. This is an audio and video speed up of about 4% and is not noticeable by the vast majority, myself included.

The catch is that detecting 2:2 film-based material is not easy and many modern devices don't have terribly good performance on PAL film material. In other words, the processing cannot distinguish between video material which has 50 interlaced fields originating from 50 different points in time and film material which has 50 interlaced fields originating from 25 different points in time. Film material gets treated as video material and the processing starts calculating pixels instead of extracting the original pixels which are actually there. The result is horrible deinterlacing artifacts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL

ctviggen

11-02-06, 11:09 AM

I wonder why they measured such high brightness relative to other reviews? For instance:

First, in " best" mode, with the HC5000BL projector in full (Standard) power, Cinema (gamma), and Color Temp set based on my calibration (see calibration section), the HC5000BL measured a very reasonable 480 lumens. Dropping to low power, brightness decreased by approximately 23% to 371 lumens.

From http://www.projectorreviews.com/Manufacturers/mitsubishi/HC5000BL/performance.asp#brightness

Cine4home's numbers are much higher (600 for Cine4home and 480 for Projector Review). 120 lumens makes a huge difference -- on a 106 inch diagonal 16x9 screen with a gain of 1.0, that's about a 3 ftL increase (from 13.7 to 17.0). 17.0 ftL is a useful starting point and allows some room for dimming of the bulb and still having a relatively bright picture.

Per Johnny

11-02-06, 11:26 AM

Mitsubishi was aware of problems with 2:2 on pre-production samples, and said it was due to not finished software. They said it should be solved with final production units. The first final units will start to show up next week, so we will see. The HC5000 is software-upgradeable, so it is possible that it can be addressed with a new fw also. I hope they can solve this.

chris311

11-02-06, 12:19 PM

golfnz34me

11-02-06, 12:46 PM

What I find baffling is that at D65 with the auto iris off they are only getting a 750:1 contrast ratio. With the new C2fine panels??!! That's worse than the old D5 panels.

You have to take this number in context. Unlike the D4/D5 PJs, there is no manual iris on this machine. So the whole light path is left open, and a lot of the scattered light that would be blocked by even a modest lens iris gets through.

This number is pretty meaningless since I can't imagine anyone using the PJ in this mode.

That being said, once the DLP and Sony fanboys get a hold of that number I can only imagine the scathing posts that we will have to endure. :D

Mike

Potetgullmannen

11-02-06, 01:06 PM

To Chris311,

I really can't comment on the Mit 3000 because I've never seen it. But the same day I saw HC 5000 I also took a look at the new Epson TW 700 which is a 720p projector - LCD like the HC 5000. This was at an electronics show here in Norway, and I was walking back and forth between the to projectors a several times to compare. For me the difference was very big - in favor of the HC5000 of course. The next day I brought my wife with me and we did the same thing, went back and forth wathcing the two models. I was quite surprised when my wife that really has no interest in such technical things said "let's head back to that other one again" when we were looking at the Epson TW 700. And while we were looking at the HC5000 it was actually me who had pull her arm and say "we gotta go now". :-) She also said if I was to spend any money on this hobby, I better spend it on the HC 5000. When she could see the diffence so clearly, I guess most others would too.

So, I'd say it's a big difference between the to new LCD's, the 720p TW 700 and the 108p HC5000. How HC 5000 will compare to a new 720p DLP like the mits hc 3000 I really can't say. The HC 5000 I think looked much sharper, and that difference got bigger the closer we got the screen. So unless you want a DLP, and if you can afford the HC 5000 and like to sit pretty close to the screen I'd say go for that one. No screendoor effect to be seen, great colors, good black level, kinda calm ,nice, more natural like picture that I didn't expect from a LCD.

EDIT: Both were showing HD-DVD movies. I asked about that to make sure. Not the same movie though.

rnrgagne

11-02-06, 01:22 PM

Can anyone comment on how the picture quality of the HC5000 would compare to a 720P projector, say the mit. 3000? Is the picture quality worth the extra price of the projector? I am asking because i'm shopping for my first projector and i'm still undecided which way to go. Either a good 720P projector or the HC5000.

Reports I've read suggest that it would be dependant on screen size and or distance from the screen.

Basically if your prime seating area is under 1.6X screen width, you would definitely notice the difference with the 1080p resolution, otherwise it's subjective to your tastes. I would think it would have a slight advantage, if any, on 1080p material given that's the units' native resolution.

For me the 5000hr bulb, 1080p, 19db, motorized lens shift and zoom and and high quality (yeah, yeah, except for PAL) video processor and the fact I sit at about 1.5 X screen width sealed the deal.

Oh and I got some good news from my dealer I should be getting mine sometime next week!!!!

Jonathan Teller

11-02-06, 01:27 PM

So the general consensus seems to be that the Pearl is the slightly better projector between these two. PAL issues aside (as they are for those of us in North America), the HC5000 doesn't seem to offer any advantages over the Pearl in terms of picture quality. The HC5000 is physically smaller and lighter, has a more generous vertical lens shift and a power horizontal lens shift, is a bit quieter, runs cooler and has a longer lamp life in low power mode.

But the Pearl has a longer zoom range, a better dynamic iris, higher on/off contrast, can be adjusted to have more accurate colour and depending on the setup can be brighter too. Screen door effect seems to be a none issue for either, but the Pearl still carries an advantage in this department too.

Video processing is great on both projectors (again, PAL issues aside), both accept 24p signals and can display them at an even multiple of 24. Both seem to have similar ANSI contrast and neither can match the depth of picture offered by DLP. Colour uniformity and convergence are not perfect on either the Pearl or HC5000, but overall, seem to be non-issues so long as you get a good unit.

So then it comes to price. Given Mitsubishi's protection of their MSRP, the prices are either extremely close, or else the Pearl may end up actually costing less!

Given all of this, I'd have to say that the only reason to pick the HC5000 over the Pearl is physical size. In terms of the picture that is thrown, the Pearl seems to have the HC5000 beat - albeit only slightly - in basically every area. I still want to read some shoot outs - perhaps the HC5000 appears noticably sharper as that is a common compliment of the HC5000's picture. But at the moment, I'd have to think that Sony's machine would be the top pick in this fight. Perhaps Mitsubishi should relax that price point a little bit. Being a tiny bit behind in out and out picture isn't such a big deal if you're selling for $1000 less ;)

Jon

Diarmuid

11-02-06, 01:33 PM

You have to take this number in context. Unlike the D4/D5 PJs, there is no manual iris on this machine. So the whole light path is left open, and a lot of the scattered light that would be blocked by even a modest lens iris gets through.

This number is pretty meaningless since I can't imagine anyone using the PJ in this mode.

That being said, once the DLP and Sony fanboys get a hold of that number I can only imagine the scathing posts that we will have to endure. :D

Mike

Ah thanks Mike, I get it now. The only possible disadvantage I can think of is for people who don't get along with a dynamic iris, I guess for those people the HC5000 would be out.

rnrgagne

11-02-06, 02:00 PM

So the general consensus seems to be that the Pearl is the slightly better projector between these two. ...... Being a tiny bit behind in out and out picture isn't such a big deal if you're selling for $1000 less ;)
Jon

There is about a $1000 to $1500 diference between the two up here in Canada. Sony Style has the Pearl pre-ordering for $6k CDN. (Ordering from the States would be around $5700 CDN with exchange and shipping/brokerage fees)
I don't know my final price yet for the Mits but it should be around $4500 - $4800 CDN.

tbacos

11-02-06, 02:02 PM

noah katz

11-02-06, 02:14 PM

"So the general consensus seems to be that the Pearl is the slightly better projector between these two.... the HC5000 doesn't seem to offer any advantages over the Pearl in terms of picture quality."

From what I gathered, the 5000 is sharper, has more natural colors, and has no color or brightness uniformity issues.

The advantages of the Pearl are higher brightness and better blacks.

emptychair

11-02-06, 03:28 PM

SasaDF

11-02-06, 03:29 PM

what do you think about the battle MITSU vs Pearl if you could get the first one at less than 3500$? :eek: :rolleyes: ;)

Útgarðaloki

11-02-06, 03:53 PM

Regarding the difference in sharpness between the Pearl and HC5000 I've seen a shoot out between a Pearl (prod-unit) and HC5000 (early pre-unit). Both units had very good panel alignment. Both were fed the same signal (1080i HD-DVD source). Shifting back and forth between the two was done by covering either one of the two lenses with a piece of cardboard.

The HC5000 picture was considerably sharper than the Pearl. There were some very telling moments where for instance the close up of a beard would yield good details on the Pearl with clear patterns and strands within the beard while the HC5000 would more or less show you individual hairs within the same. The same was true for imperfections of the skin in peoples' faces and the texture in fabrics and the likes. It plain simply showed individual details that, for what ever reason, tended to merge on the Pearl. Shifting back and forth like this almost made the Pearl's picture, all though in no way bad, seem some what out of focus. And more importantly the HC5000 accomplished this without making the picture look artificial in any way. It was quite impressive and I really liked this "popping of details" on the HC5000.

Whether an HC5000 prod-unit will be able to pull of the same thing remains to be seen.

Alex512

11-02-06, 04:53 PM

tbacos

11-02-06, 04:57 PM

Havocsi

11-02-06, 05:05 PM

I can answer that question since it is us that have them. We have had pre-production versions of the HC5000 for almost 2 months now. Two different ones.

We also have the pearl set-up with the same signal on the same screen.

The room is a perfect light controlled room with a 135" Stewart StudioTek 130.

The sony has been D65 calibrated but the HC5000 has not, since the early pre-production unit we currently have doesnt allow for color calibration, or chaning the brightness and contrast settings.

We usually run HD-DVD to them and with that the HC5000 exibits as written above.

We will next week get the first real version of the HC5000 and then I can do a real write-up on them because I have not wanted to do so on a pre-production unit.

We will also next week host one of the biggest shoot-outs between projectors in Scandinavia, with probably 1000+ visitors. So expect write-ups if there are people hanging on avsforum that come...(I know one, Ohlson)

The followin projectors will be shown:
1080p:
- Mitsubishi HC5000
- Optoma HD81
- Sony VW-50
- Sharp XV-Z210000
- Projection Design Action! model3
- Marantz VP-11S1
- Sim2 HT3000

720p:
- Mitsubishi HC3100
- Mitsubishi HC1100
- Optoma HD72i
- Optoma HD70
- Sony HS60
- Sanyo Z5
- Epson TW700
- Hitachi TX-300
- Panasonic AX100
- Projection Design Action! model2
- Samsung H710
- Sim2 C3X 3-chip DLP
- BenQ PE-8720

Cine4Home

11-02-06, 05:10 PM

chris311

11-02-06, 05:18 PM

Thanks Potetgullmannen and rnrgagne for the response. They were very helpful. I think i'm going to order the HC000 tomorrow.

Jonathan Teller

11-02-06, 05:23 PM

Well there we go, sharpness may be the HC5000's ace and it's certainly a legitimate one.

Regarding the video processing, the Pearl's scaler/deinterlacer is reportedly very very good according to WSR and so is the Reon in the HC5000, so I'm basically considering that side of things a wash. I'm sure there are differences that individual scenes or tests may show, but overall, video processing is very good on both units and not something that would clearly be an advantage for one over the other.

Black level, on/off contrast and the noticability of the dynamic iris at work all seem to fall in Sony's favor though. Even with the iris in a stationary mode (ie. not dynamic), the Pearl's contrast is considerably higher than the HC5000's when the HC5000's iris is set to "open" rather than one of its 3 dynamic modes. All reviews so far have indicated that the dynamic iris in the Mitsubishi is noticable sometimes and all have reported that the on/off contrast when not using the dynamic iris is not particularly high.

The Pearl's dynamic iris has received a lot of praise for basically being unnoticable. But even if it is set to a fixed position, on/off contrast remains higher than on the HC5000 when the HC5000 is set to "open". The Pearl also allows the user to manually adjust the aperture of the iris in a fixed position with up to 100 steps of adjustment! The Mitsu only has the single "open" fixed position.

That said, if the difference in sharpness is really that noticable, it becomes a question of "how close does the HC5000 get?" If the blacks are a little more grey, the contrast isn't quite as high and you can see the dynamic iris at work from time to time, will that be more noticable than the detail offered by an overall sharper image?

It's an interesting question and one that each potential buyer would have to answer for him/herself. I'd have to say that personally, the HC5000 needs to get close. Blacks need to be reasonably close to black. Contrast needs to be quite high and I don't want to be noticing the dynamic iris at work every time the scene changes.

This just got tougher for me. I'm not personally a big fan of dynamic irises, seeing the black level of the bars in a 2.35:1 aspect movie changing all the time really bugs the heck out of me (and yes, I'm aware of constant height setups, but I'm not using one for the foreseeable future, so please don't tell me that's the solution :p ). The Pearl still pulls off very good contrast even with its dynamic iris off and with it on, it's supposedly virtually unnoticable - something I could certainly discern for myself :) But the HC5000's contrast with the iris set to "open" is a bit on the low side so I'm thinking it isn't the best way to use the unit and there is unfortunately no way to manually adjust a fixed iris position.

Tough, tough, tough. But I've started leaning towards the Pearl myself...oh woe is me, eh? :p

Jon

HoustonHoyaFan

11-02-06, 05:23 PM

Regarding the difference in sharpness between the Pearl and HC5000 I've seen a shoot out between a Pearl (prod-unit) and HC5000 (early pre-unit). Both units had very good panel alignment. Both were fed the same signal (1080i HD-DVD source). Shifting back and forth between the two was done by covering either one of the two lenses with a piece of cardboard.

The HC5000 picture was considerably sharper than the Pearl. There were some very telling moments where for instance the close up of a beard would yield good details on the Pearl with clear patterns and strands within the beard while the HC5000 would more or less show you individual hairs within the same. The same was true for imperfections of the skin in peoples' faces and the texture in fabrics and the likes. It plain simply showed individual details that, for what ever reason, tended to merge on the Pearl. Shifting back and forth like this almost made the Pearl's picture, all though in no way bad, seem some what out of focus. And more importantly the HC5000 accomplished this without making the picture look artificial in any way. It was quite impressive and I really liked this "popping of details" on the HC5000..
Was the Pearl properly focused? :) :)

As strange as it may sound, gregr had a sentence about it in his WSR Review!

Alex512

11-02-06, 05:34 PM

Hello together,

I want to clear out that we did review the final production unit. It was not a pre-production.

In the title of the review it says "Seriengerät" which is german for "production unit". Probably Babelfish didn't translate that properly

:D

Regards,
Ekkehart, www.cine4home.de

Ekkehart,

Thanks for clearing that up for us. A little hard for us Americans to translate and understand, but with that aside your reviews are great.

Will you be posting all your numbers (in low mode) for your D65 calibration? Also in your opinion, which projector (mits vs. pearl) do you think looks better in your set-ups?

cpc

11-02-06, 05:55 PM

I wish the Pearl and Mitsubishi would be reviewed with some reference to how they compare to the 720p projectors.

I am personally craving a Hitachi PJ TX x00 with C2Fine. Just imagine a projector with these C2Fine 1080p lcd panels AND Hitachi's great gamma adjustments, colour uniformity adjustments and dual-iris :cool:

Toe

11-02-06, 07:47 PM

The Mits sounds like it may be sharper, but the Pearl is plenty sharp and the difference would not be noticable unless side by side. Part of the sharpness difference is due to the LCD vs SXRD as well, two different looks. I could not tell a difference in sharpness at Cedia, but they were not side by side. I am still undecided as well, but the Pearl looks to be the better unit overall. A noticable DI is a big negative in my book as you will be watching this unit everyday and this would be distracting. This seems to be a common issue in 5000 reviews. Pearls contrast ratio is much better (almost 6000 in 5000's best mode compared to almost 11000 at min throw for the Pearl and 16000 at max throw according to cine4home. Even if you put the Pearl at max throw and loose some lumens in high mode, it will still be about the same brightness as the 5000 but with 16000 on/off contrast compared to 6000. That is a 10000 difference contrast advantage for the Pearl :eek:) . A little bit brighter is a good thing as well. It would actually be better for my setup if the Mits was the better or equal unit overall, but I dont see it happening from reports so far.

But I sure wish the cine4home guys would come out and tell us if all this adds up to a better overall picture on the Pearl or not since they surely know at this point. Please guys, we are dying for some info! :)

davidmaine

11-02-06, 08:17 PM

I'm looking for a 1080P projector. I want it for movies and watching football. Could you tell me which projector would be best for me, the Sony Pearl or the Mitsubishi HC5000.

The room size is 17' by 15'. there are 3 windows but no direct sunlight comes into the room. The screen size will be 100"

What would be a good screen for this setup?

Thanks for any help. David

Toe

11-02-06, 08:46 PM

Hi David, welcome to the forum :)

If you can wait a few weeks there should be some great head to heads of these two units and you can make a better decision. If you read this page alone, you will get a good idea of where these two units stand as far as Pros and cons compared to each other. Until we get some real world head to head viewing impressions, we wont know for sure though. One thing is for sure, they both look to be fantastic overall and you will be happy with either one. A lot of us are in the same boat on these 2 units and it is an exciting time. Good luck!

eclipse98

11-02-06, 08:51 PM

Havocsi

11-03-06, 02:09 AM

Havocsi, do you find that Pearl and HC5000 have adequate brightness for 135" screen ? I have 126 Carada BW 1.4 gain and my major concern with either of these PJs is their brightness (I have dedicated HT in the basement with total light control / dark walls) -- most AVS users seem to go for smaller screens with Pearl (100" or so) or opt for HP bigger screens. There is some conflicting data about HC5000 lumen output -- which PJ is brighter in your opinion ?

Thanks, Davie.

First of I should comment that in Sweden people tend to prefere a set-up that has less light output than in for instance USA. Most people are happy with about 12 fL and for that the pearl is sufficient since what you need is 500 lumens and the pearl will put out that even after it dims a bit.

The pre-sample of HC5000 does give over 500 lumens, but not calibrated, and is for now sufficient.

The pearl is however brighter than the 5000, so if brightness is important it is the right choice.

Another comment is that the HC5000 does not have the same contrast, but its not bad in any way and we have had many people come by and have choosen the 5000 over the pearl just based on the pre-sample. Should comment that the price difference is about $1700 here.

phisch

11-03-06, 02:41 AM

I also still haven't heard whether the Pearl has a completely sealed light path to protect from dust blobs, whereas the Mits does. If the Sony doesn't, then this would be a meaningful Mits advantage for me at least.

Does anyone know the answer to this?

hanser

11-03-06, 02:58 AM

Spizz

11-03-06, 05:43 AM

We will also next week host one of the biggest shoot-outs between projectors in Scandinavia, with probably 1000+ visitors. So expect write-ups if there are people hanging on avsforum that come...(I know one, Ohlson)

The followin projectors will be shown:
1080p:
- Mitsubishi HC5000
- Optoma HD81
- Sony VW-50
- Sharp XV-Z21000
- Projection Design Action! model3
- Marantz VP-11S1
- Sim2 HT3000

720p:
- Mitsubishi HC3100
- Mitsubishi HC1100
- Optoma HD72i
- Optoma HD70
- Sony HS60
- Sanyo Z5
- Epson TW700
- Hitachi TX-300
- Panasonic AX100
- Projection Design Action! model2
- Samsung H710
- Sim2 C3X 3-chip DLP
- BenQ PE-8720

Wow. I look forward to seeing the results of this. Will you post them here on AVS. Please take lots of photos.

SasaDF

11-03-06, 08:33 AM

For me the quietness ist extremely important, since I watch also opera and classical music concerts, where even a small amount of noise is distracting. Therefore I lean to the Mits.

Ekkehart: Do you see any chance that the PAL processing may be improved via firmware update in later versions?

The same to me!!

yesterday I saw Voyager and I've heard too much noise from my VPR.(eve if I used a BIG HUSHBOX to reduce the Noise coming from the Epson)

The instance of non noisy VPR is Fundamental for me!!! ;)

Many more of other issues like DI, Bad Deinterlacing, low luminosity....

The Noise doesn't make me to appreciate anything good.... :o :rolleyes:

Toe

11-03-06, 09:26 AM

$1700 is a big price difference. I can see people choosing the 5000 in this case. The US is a bit different. Where I am buying one of these units from they are within $500 of each other, so I dont consider price a factor. I am sure contrast is not bad on the 5000, but the Pearl literally has almost 2 times the contrast calibrated at min throw! And if you mount beyond min throw, it can go beyond that. I dont know if the Mits gains contrast with a longer throw like the Pearl, but if not this is a huge difference between these 2. But like I said, if the Mits truly looks better in real world viewing, I would gladly grab it, I just dont see how it is possible. SXRD has a much higher fill rate as well, doesnt it? Price being a non factor, which is the better unit overall?

mpjohnst

11-03-06, 10:51 AM

Ekkehart-
Thanks for the awesome review! I hope you didn't mind me reposting some of highlights here. I have a few follow-up questions for you when you get the chance...

1. SHADOW DETAIL - At the very end of your review, you mentioned that shadow detail still wasn't as good as either DLP or LCOS but that it was not bothersome. Could you describe the results on the Mits a bit more? Was it as big of a difference as Art (at projector reviews) found them to be? I've posted two comparison pictures he took... Samsung H710AE on the left, Mits HC5000 on the right. Was it as noticeable in regular viewing?

http://www.projectorreviews.com/images-projectors-06/HC5000BL_r_vs_SP-H710AE_Starship_cockpit_large.jpg

http://www.projectorreviews.com/images-projectors-06/SamsungSP-H710ae_vs_HC5000_theaterLarge.jpg

2. DYNAMIC IRIS - You have probably seen and tested more dynamic irises in action than anyone else... the HS50, Z4, AE900, Ruby, HS60, TX200, Pearl, AX100, Z5, etc... As far as I know this is Mitsubishi's first attempt at a dynamic iris. Would you mind telling us a bit more on how it stacked up vs. the competition? Was it as noticeable as the others? Was it noisy? Also, of the existing efforts, which are the best, which are the worst and where does the HC5000 fall?

A pic of the Mits iris from your site...
http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/MitsubishiHC5000/Pic54.jpg

3. ANSI CONTRAST - I'm not sure if you measured this or not, but I was curious how the HC5000 performed. I had read that the new C2Fine panels would boost ANSI well above normal LCD levels so I'm curious how it turned out. Any thoughts or measurements you can share?

4. PERFORMANCE VS. THE PEARL - This one is one everyone's mind here in the US as they are selling for very close to the same price. Would you mind commenting on how they compare and, of course, which you would choose if price was no concern? :D

Thanks again for everything! I can wait to read your reviews of the new AE1000 and TW1000.
-Matt

millerwill

11-03-06, 11:54 AM

Price being a non factor, which is the better unit overall?

Cine4Home's overall rating for the Pearl was Sehr Gut (Very Good) -, while that for the HC5000 was Gut (Good) +. So in academic parlence, the Pearl got an A- and the HC5000 a B+

Toe

11-03-06, 02:16 PM

Nice analogy Millerwill :)

Swearengen

11-03-06, 02:52 PM

Projectorreviews latest review of the Sanyo Z5 (http://www.projectorreviews.com/Manufacturers/sanyo/PLVZ5/index.asp) did the trick for me. I'm holding my horses.

After reading the Samsung 710E review, I definetely look for HD projector beeing able to deliver nice black levels and plenty of shadow detail. Especially the later, is where I haven't seen the Mitsubishi prevail.

This is written about the Z5 in the Projectorreviews review.

OK, that takes care of our demonstration of black levels and irises. Suffice to say, the Sanyo can deliver extremely good black levels in the darker scenes when needed, easily darker than a good DLP home theater projector using the standard Darkchip2 (Darkchip3 projectors are in a higher price range!)

Turns out, the Sanyo PLV-Z5 is exceptional in terms of shadow detail, exceeding that of every other under $10,000 projector I have reviewed, except one, the almost twice the price Samsung SP-H710AE. Even my (and I really am pleased with it) BenQ PE8720, with its Darkchip3 DLP (blacker blacks, higher contrast than Darkchip2), comes up short, and my BenQ is pretty well tuned!

Now thats pretty bold statements about an LCD projector below the $3K bar. Beeing that good with the older panels, makes me believe that Sanyo will be able to deliver the goods with their upcoming Z-HD1 1080p projector and get black levels and shadow detail right, with the new panels.

Please hurry up spring! :)

mpjohnst

11-03-06, 03:42 PM

That is interesting about the Z5 but doesn't really make sense in light of Art's earlier review of the HC5000. In it, he has a comparison shot of the Z5 and the HC5000 specifically looking at shadow detail. Here is the quote and the picture....
-Matt

Immediately below (also from Phantom on HD-DVD) is a side by side comparing the HC5000BL to Sanyo's equally brand new PLV-Z5. The HC5000 is on the left. As noted above, the Sanyo uses both a dynamic iris and dynamic lamp dimming, and claims a slightly higher contrast ratio (11,000:1). Since there are no very bright areas, all that technology gets to work, and both projectors do a similar job in terms of shadow detail, with some dark colors being just the tiniest bit more visible on the HC5000BL (such as in her hair). Look close, and you'll also see the slight difference in sharpness thanks to the HC5000BL's 1080p resolution, especially in the folds of Christine's cape, and her dress.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/images-projectors-06/HC5000BL_vs_Z5_Phantom_night_snowLarge.jpg

SasaDF

11-03-06, 03:49 PM

....and in the SS above.... the colors of the Sanyo appears dramatically "fuffy"...... :rolleyes: (I don't know if this term means anything in your language, but is onomatopheic)

Look at the lady's dress ;)

Here in Europe the battle in the recent years has been set between the Panasonic Pt ae series and the Epson Tw series...

The sanyo z series is always been set a step back;)

And today in theFull HD struggle we will see the battle between 4 competitors for those who suffer the RAINBOW EFFECT of the DLP monochip:

1) Mistu Hc5000
2) The Sony Pearl
3) Tha Panny 1000
4) Epson Tw 1000 (we will know the price in Europe at the presentation in London in 16th november;) )

walk on
sasadf

Swearengen

11-03-06, 04:08 PM

That is interesting about the Z5 but doesn't really make sense in light of Art's earlier review of the HC5000. In it, he has a comparison shot of the Z5 and the HC5000 specifically looking at shadow detail.

Maybe it was "out of the box" non-calibrated?!? But definetely would be great if Art could comment on this?!?

....and in the SS above.... the colors of the Sanyo appears dramatically "fuffy"...... :rolleyes: (I don't know if this term means anything in your language, but is onomatopheic)

Look at the lady's dress ;)

Actually they look quite equal to me, but with the Mitsu showing more of a "blueish tint" in the white colored dress and the mans shirt and the ladys face.

About the Sanyo in Europe, I can safely say, that the "fight" in the nordic countries and Germany has been entirely Sanyo vs. Panny dominated in the lower range projectors. I don't know of anyone speaking of the Epson models "up here" :o

SasaDF

11-03-06, 04:11 PM

.....Then "up There" ( :D ) you don't know what you've lost!! ;)

EPSON RULES!!! :cool:

walk on
sasadf

ctviggen

11-03-06, 04:15 PM

sasadf, I agree with you -- the colors are off on the Sanyo. However, Art isn't the best at calibrating projectors. (If he is, then I'd buy the Samsung 710 over the HC5000, Panny, or Sanyo, as the Samsung had -- by far -- the best color on all of Art's shots; and I thought the best shadow detail, too.) In fact, Art's reviews and comparisons have me seriously considering the Samsung 710 again.

Swearengen

11-03-06, 04:26 PM

.....Then "up There" ( :D ) you don't know what you've lost!! ;)

EPSON RULES!!! :cool:

I'm always ready to be convinced by arguments and especially by my own eyes :)

But I can't argue about it, since I haven't watched one in action. Not many sellers of Epson projectors in Denmark.

But I do put lot of trust in Art's reviews and by the sound of it, the Z5 nails all the goodies I would want from a projector, especially the shadow detail, it just misses out on the 1080p resolution.

Again some SS from the Mitsu and the Z5 reviews:

Mitsu normally exposed:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/images-projectors-06/HC5000BL_LOTR_watchfire.jpg

Mitsu overexposed:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/images-projectors-06/HC5000BL_LOTR_watchfireoverexposed.jpg

Z5 normally exposed:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/images-projectors-06/Sanyo_PLVZ5_LOTR_watchfire.jpg

Z5 overexposed shot:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/images-projectors-06/Sanyo_PLVZ5_LOTR_watchfireover.jpg

Samsunh 710E normally exposed:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/images-projectors-06/Samsung_SP-H710ae_LOTRwatchfire.jpg

Samsung 710E overexposed shot:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/images-projectors-06/Samsung_SP-H710ae_LOTRwatchfireOver.jpg

chris311

11-03-06, 04:30 PM

Art (presenter)

Is there any chance you can comment on the picture quality between the Z5 and the HC5000? Is the picture quality of the Z5 close to the HC5000 or is the HC5000 is a totally different league? I’m trying to decide between these two projectors and it’s hard to make a decision after reading your reviews. It sounds like the Z5 rivals the HC5000s picture quality or it may even surpass it with its shadow detail. I’m looking for a projector to put in a light controlled room with the projector set back 12 feet from a 100 to 110 screen. Viewing distance would be about 12 feet from the screen and it will mostly be used to watch DVDs and possibly HD-DVDs in the near future. Which one of these projectors would have the better picture? Thanks for any info you can give.

buddahead

11-03-06, 04:45 PM

cpc

11-03-06, 05:21 PM

How does the Mitsubishi do with 1080i ??

tbacos

11-03-06, 05:46 PM

My local projector shop just called and informed me that they received their first HC5000 shipment today. These things are finally hitting the streets. I'll check it out in person and will report back my untrained-eye opinion.

-tony

am1001

11-03-06, 06:31 PM

Art, another request on comparison on picture quality between HC5000 and Z5.

I'd like to know comparison of:

black level
depth of image
3d effect
sharpness

I'm not yet totally sold on getting a 1080 projector (although I could just about afford it) and want to know if I'd be losing out much on basic picture quality by getting the Z5 instead.

cpc

11-03-06, 08:01 PM

Yeah, resolution aside, I think people were expecting lcd projectors with C2Fine lcd panels to have a significant improvement in the black level and increase in contrast that is somewhat obvious compared to the older D5 lcd panels. I think we need a fairly large shootout of all the new 720p lcd projectors vs the 1080p lcd projectors.

juicelee

11-03-06, 08:07 PM

I know screenshots aren't a good way to compare pjs, but the Z5 just seems more vibrant than the mits. I hope brightness doesn't end up being its main weakness.

Toe

11-04-06, 12:56 AM

The Z5 looks better to my eyes as well. Hmmm.........

Havocsi

11-04-06, 03:15 AM

The Z5 isnt close to the HC5000, especially in HD. That just proves that screenshots show you just about nothing. Its like listening to a speaker over a phone.

However he is accurate on the Samsung, it does indeed show more shadow detail than the HC5000, and the pearl also for that matter. The Samsung also has a lot better ANSI than the other two mentioned, and its gamma tracking is also superior. The only thing it is not better on is absolute black level and detail in 1080 material.

SasaDF

11-04-06, 04:27 AM

The Z5 isnt close to the HC5000, especially in HD. That just proves that screenshots show you just about nothing. Its like listening to a speaker over a phone..

:eek:

VERY VERY FANTASTIC metaphor

I will use it many times in future.... ;)

CAN I?!? :o

RTROSE

11-04-06, 09:32 AM

Swearengen

11-04-06, 10:33 AM

I sitting here wishing.......Art(Presenter) stated earlier in this thread about bouncing off the idea of a "Turbo Charged" Mits with a higher wattage lamp to the guys in Japan, but if only that were to happen it would for me be the perfect projector with just a little more "Horse Power".

I know all of us here get into many quandaries about this projector and that projector and on and on and on Blah Blah Blah. If you guys are like me you don't have several thousand dollars to just throw away on something to find out it doesn't work for you, but all things aside for its price point from what I have read it is a very fine performer. For all of us that are not "professional reviewers" I believe that the majority of us will find that in our particular situations we will be most pleased with this projector and without being there to witness side by side comparisons would not in most situations notice minor differences.

I were myself head over heals about the Mitsubishi and certainly the reviews it's been getting should consolidate this. I'm not either able to spring several thousand dollars every second year on a new projector and I would like to be getting a 1080p, that could certainly deliver a great viewing experience for years to come.

But I must say, that the Mitsubishi is now far away from my wishlist, since I've seen the amount of shadow detail it can not show in dark scenes. I want to watch Battlestar Galactica or Descent and be able to spot the details in the dark universe, not just beeing glad, that the projektor delivers a great black level not wondering what might be hidden in there. The Samsung 710E made that very clear to me.

If the Z5 delivers this shadow detail with the D5 panels, then my expectations are very high for the upcoming Z-HD1 with C2Fine panels, which may be priced in the same ballpark as the HC5000 and thus, delivering all the HD goods at a reasonable price tag.

tbacos

11-04-06, 11:20 AM

If the Z5 delivers this shadow detail with the D5 panels, then my expectations are very high for the upcoming Z-HD1 with C2Fine panels, which may be priced in the same ballpark as the HC5000 and thus, delivering all the HD goods at a reasonable price tag.

What is the Z-HD1? I haven't seen any info about it...

Swearengen

11-04-06, 11:28 AM

What is the Z-HD1? I haven't seen any info about it...

Sanyo Z5 HD 1080 version (Code named Z-HD1)

Toe

11-04-06, 12:53 PM

I bet the Sanyo will be awesome. The one thing that worries me about the 5000 is the noticable DI reports. I think this is a first attempt by Mits at a DI (someone correct me if I am wrong) and that scares me a bit.

gangrew

11-04-06, 01:02 PM

tbacos

11-04-06, 01:44 PM

A bit off topic, but what shop is it? I think I will have to get over there and see it too.

Andy

Projectus in Tualatin, right off the I-5. I wasn't able to make it over there before they closed yesterday, and they're not normally open on the weekends, so I'll have to wait until Monday at the soonest to see it. On a sidenote, they quoted me a price *above* MSRP for this unit. :confused:

-tony

gangrew

11-04-06, 02:51 PM

Thanks Tony. If you want to see a Sony Pearl, Home Video Library Electronics has one on display. They also quoted me a price well above MSRP for the pearl. It is still nice to be able to actually see the unit in action.

OK, back on topic now.

Andy

fleaman

11-05-06, 08:47 PM

Projectorreviews latest review of the Sanyo Z5 (http://www.projectorreviews.com/Manufacturers/sanyo/PLVZ5/index.asp) did the trick for me. I'm holding my horses.

After reading the Samsung 710E review, I definetely look for HD projector beeing able to deliver nice black levels and plenty of shadow detail. Especially the later, is where I haven't seen the Mitsubishi prevail.

This is written about the Z5 in the Projectorreviews review.
Quote:
OK, that takes care of our demonstration of black levels and irises. Suffice to say, the Sanyo can deliver extremely good black levels in the darker scenes when needed, easily darker than a good DLP home theater projector using the standard Darkchip2 (Darkchip3 projectors are in a higher price range!)...

Turns out, the Sanyo PLV-Z5 is exceptional in terms of shadow detail, exceeding that of every other under $10,000 projector I have reviewed, except one, the almost twice the price Samsung SP-H710AE. Even my (and I really am pleased with it) BenQ PE8720, with its Darkchip3 DLP (blacker blacks, higher contrast than Darkchip2), comes up short, and my BenQ is pretty well tuned!

Now thats pretty bold statements about an LCD projector below the $3K bar. Beeing that good with the older panels, makes me believe that Sanyo will be able to deliver the goods with their upcoming Z-HD1 1080p projector and get black levels and shadow detail right, with the new panels.

Please hurry up spring! :)

It is pretty amazing that this Z5 can deliver on the shadow detail compared to a DLP.

As for the dark blacks: As usual for DI LCD, it falls short on scenes with bright areas. As Art mentioned, "...extremely good black levels in the darker scenes".

Still, seems like the LCD vs. DLP race is far from over in the contrast/shadow detail dept., can't wait for Art's reviews of the newer crop of DC3 DLP's.

Fleaman

millerwill

11-06-06, 11:43 AM

Has anyone yet found a good translation of the Cine$home review of the HC5000?

noah katz

11-06-06, 02:34 PM

Bill,

Babelfish didn't too bad of a job.

cpc

11-06-06, 09:27 PM

Who out there is waiting for an HC5000 or planning to get one soon?

jacksonian

11-06-06, 09:32 PM

It's still in the running with the Pearl, Panny, maybe the Sanyo in the spring.

emptychair

11-06-06, 10:14 PM

[QUOTE=jacksonian]It's still in the running with the Pearl, Panny, maybe the Sanyo in the spring.[/QUOTE

Epson will have their player out in December.

ninja.rogue

11-06-06, 10:19 PM

I will have mine shipped in two days and presumably will receive it within saturday.
I will post my impressions this weekend, if shipping is on time.

jacksonian

11-06-06, 10:23 PM

[QUOTE=jacksonian]It's still in the running with the Pearl, Panny, maybe the Sanyo in the spring.[/QUOTE

Epson will have their player out in December.
I've always heard good things about the Epson pjs, but the supply chain and prices have always kept me away. I would imagine they'll have a tough time competing if they stick to their usual MO.

emptychair

11-06-06, 11:22 PM

[QUOTE=emptychair]
I've always heard good things about the Epson pjs, but the supply chain and prices have always kept me away. I would imagine they'll have a tough time competing if they stick to their usual MO.

I agree. Their Japanese pricing on the TW1000 is competitve but who know's what they have in store for North America.

JaniH

11-06-06, 11:30 PM

Who out there is waiting for an HC5000 or planning to get one soon?I should be getting mine tomorrow or day after that.

utility

11-07-06, 03:55 AM

the HC5000 definitely does 1080/24p

cine4home posted a small update, that they have tested this feature now and they confirmed that it works.

HansHenrik

11-07-06, 05:49 AM

Stumbled onto the Mitsubishi HC5000 description here a few days ago. I must agree that this is a moment I have waited for, for a long long time. I can hardly wait to see such a HD setup in action.

I guess I might finally have to give up my old CRT projector in order to get full HD - and a better WAF as well (Wife Acceptance Factor)

I am living in Denmark, Europe, and have not been able to locate a european source for the Mitsu. My immediate guess will be that buying it in Germany will be much cheaper due to size and lower sales tax. Any locals around with opinions on where to buy (and wondering at the price level as well :)

Hans Henrik

SasaDF

11-07-06, 08:05 AM

Hans You've an MP;)

Respond ASAP;)

walk on
sasadf

es347

11-07-06, 06:06 PM

I sitting here wishing.......Art(Presenter) stated earlier in this thread about bouncing off the idea of a "Turbo Charged" Mits with a higher wattage lamp to the guys in Japan, but if only that were to happen it would for me be the perfect projector with just a little more "Horse Power".

I know all of us here get into many quandaries about this projector and that projector and on and on and on Blah Blah Blah. If you guys are like me you don't have several thousand dollars to just throw away on something to find out it doesn't work for you, but all things aside for its price point from what I have read it is a very fine performer. For all of us that are not "professional reviewers" I believe that the majority of us will find that in our particular situations we will be most pleased with this projector and without being there to witness side by side comparisons would not in most situations notice minor differences.

my .02

Regards

RTROSE

Gentlemen and ladies..

I am very interested in the HC5000 primarily due to the lack of a color wheel and of course the price. Like most of you, I have been agonizing over which proj. to buy- the pearl or the mits or perhaps the Samsung, etc. The last time I went through this process I was walking back and forth between side-by-side projection rooms at the dealer, one featuring the Projecttion Design Model 2(?) and the other featuring the Marantz VP12S3. After driving myself crazy I bought the Marantz due to its superior picture and it WAS noticeably better in a side-by-side comparison. As luck would have it, I needed a 15' throw and didn't realize that the Marantz was only capable of a 12' throw. So it was back to the dealer to exchange for the Production Design unit with its longer throw. Well the punch line is this: after installing the PDesign unit (uncalibrated I might add) I was absolutely tickled pink. Without the Marantz picture to compare it to, I was more than pleased with the unit and the approx. $3K savings. Any of the projectors mentioned in this thread will be loved by its owner once in the viewing room. The subtle differences will be but a fuzzy memory after you've lived with one for a while. But it's true that you can drive yourself nuts just knowing there might be a slightly better picture out there. That's the way I used to live my life but no more. I could also tell you about how I got all puckered up over the purchase of my SACD player.....never again! Thx. for indulging me by reading this long post. Good luck and good viewing.

IS300_TRD

11-07-06, 07:07 PM

I heard alot about the Mitsu projectors. Even the demo theater from Homepro (outsource company from our builder) had it.

noah katz

11-07-06, 07:22 PM

"I heard alot about the Mitsu projectors. "

And what was it that you heard? :)

JKumar

11-07-06, 11:09 PM

I would like to know if HC5000BL has built-in vertical zoom for 2.35:1 anamorphic display using external HE lens; Or do I need to buy an external scaler?

jacksonian

11-07-06, 11:56 PM

...Well the punch line is this: after installing the PDesign unit (uncalibrated I might add) I was absolutely tickled pink. Without the Marantz picture to compare it to, I was more than pleased with the unit and the approx. $3K savings. Any of the projectors mentioned in this thread will be loved by its owner once in the viewing room. The subtle differences will be but a fuzzy memory after you've lived with one for a while. ...

I will definitely agree with this. Side by side hair splitting is what we enjoy here. But when you get it home and it's not side by side with a more expensive pj, you'll enjoy what you have *usually* (some folks are never satisfied :)).

I'm narrowing this decision down based on street price and installation flexibility and maybe usable lumens. The other hair splitting isn't worth it to me.

chriscic

11-08-06, 08:35 PM

I will definitely agree with this. Side by side hair splitting is what we enjoy here. But when you get it home and it's not side by side with a more expensive pj, you'll enjoy what you have *usually* (some folks are never satisfied :)).

I'm narrowing this decision down based on street price and installation flexibility and maybe usable lumens. The other hair splitting isn't worth it to me.

Yea I agree with that. I've been to Cedia a couple of times, and to me at least most of the HD projectors look pretty much the same after a while... at least the differences are subtle.

I am leaning towards the Mits but am just a little worried about brightness as I like to keep about a 115" picture. My HS10 has been fine though and I think the actual measures lumens out of that pj were similar.

HT-Naimee

11-09-06, 10:36 AM

Anybody know the actual ANSI contrast of the 5000?

gremmy

11-10-06, 09:59 AM

I was dissappointed to see the measured results of the new D6 panels in Jason Turk's review. I had high hopes for the D6 panels, as I thought these might allow LCD to compete effectively with LCOS and that it would be good for consumers because of price pressures. ANSI contrast is actually quite good, but the on/off contrast numbers for DI off reveal that contrast is still a major limitation of LCD. Even with the DI, we're not very high. The mits looks like it has some redeeming qualities, but the on/off contrast and lumens are still too low for my tastes.

But here are the numbers:

On/Off Contrast (DI Turned Off): ~516:1
On/Off Contrast (DI Turned On Auto 1, 2 and 3): ~3083:1
ANSI Contrast: ~278:1

Brightness (Standard Lamp Mode): 553 lumens
Brightness (Low Lamp Mode): 403 lumens

Toe

11-10-06, 10:03 AM

The DI sounds a bit rough as well. I hope some 5000 owners can comment more on the DI in auto 1.

VirusKiller

11-10-06, 10:19 AM

I was dissappointed to see the measured results of the new D6 panels in Jason Turk's review. I had high hopes for the D6 panels, as I thought these might allow LCD to compete effectively with LCOS and that it would be good for consumers because of price pressures. ANSI contrast is actually quite good, but the on/off contrast numbers for DI off reveal that contrast is still a major limitation of LCD.Completely agree. Jason clearly didn't think much about the black levels either which is another major disappointment, but only confirms what the cine4home review said.

The way I see this for the Mits vs. the Pearl:

Pluses:

Fan noise.

Minuses:

Black levels.
Contrast.
Iris.
Screendoor - Jason said he could see the panel at 1.1x.

I know where my money would go...

gremmy

11-10-06, 11:06 AM

Completely agree. Jason clearly didn't think much about the black levels either which is another major disappointment, but only confirms what the cine4home review said.

The way I see this for the Mits vs. the Pearl:

Pluses:

Fan noise.

Minuses:

Black levels.
Contrast.
Iris.
Screendoor - Jason said he could see the panel at 1.1x.

I know where my money would go...

My biggest dissappointment is not with the Mits in particular (I've already bought my projector for the next couple of years, so I wouldn't be buying this one anyway), but rather with the D6 panels. They are not what many were expecting in terms of on/off contrast. We had some folks around here a few months ago talking about 3K:1 native contrast, and it's not even close. It may be a really good LCD panel, but it's still an LCD panel.

However, I must say, I don't think screen door is a minus for the Mits (at least, not based on this report), since I can see screen door on my Pearl at 1.2 SW. Of course, maybe my vision is more accute in this regard?

I know it's not possible to draw any conclusions from the small number of Mitsubishi's that have been tested, but I wonder if convergence and shading might be other areas where the Mits might have an advantage.

But even with those plusses, I think it takes a lot to overcome the *much* lower on/off contrast, the visible DI operation, and the lack of lumens.

The biggest problem with the Mits, IMHO, is the combination of low contrast and low brightness. After 200 hours of bulb use, you'll likely have somewhere between 276 and 387 lumens in high bulb mode. So unless you're rockin' a high gain screen, you'll have a dim picture, and furthering the problem is the fact that the low-contrast will result in unsatisfactory blacks. Just my two cents. Take it for what it's worth.

ninja.rogue

11-10-06, 11:08 AM

My HC 5000 has been shipped.
It will arrive on tuesday.
I will use it with both 576/480i on DVI (for use with Reon) and a VP50 1080p on HDMI.
When I will be able to, I will post an accurate description along with my impressions about different scaling/deinterlacing.
Cheers.
Paolo

es347

11-10-06, 11:31 AM

gremmy

11-10-06, 11:34 AM

Would someone please post a link to Jason's review? Thx.

There's a sticky to it at the top of this forum.

JaniH

11-10-06, 12:23 PM

Here's the one with the pictures: http://www.avscience.com/reviews/projector_mitsubishi_hc5000bl.htm

A question to Jason: a quote from your review says

On/Off Contrast (DI Turned On Auto 1, 2 and 3): ~3083:1

Certainly all the modes didn't give exactly same results? Did you measure only Auto 1?

SasaDF

11-10-06, 12:25 PM

cpc

11-10-06, 04:51 PM

Bottom line for me is unless there is a significantly better looking black level and contrast, I am not upgrading. The Mits is well over 2 times what I paid for my Hitachi TX200. I won't paid over twice the cost of the current 720p lcd pj's unless the black levels and contrast are a big improvement. Looks like I may be waiting quite a while. Perhaps I will have to wait to see both of these projectors in person. If the Pearl is better, I will wait until next spring to see how it fairs in the longer term and hope it drops in price at least somewhat. I hope the future for LCD gets better faster.

It is interesting to note that Jason's (~) ANSI contrast measurements of the Mits 5000 were higher than the Pearl, while the Pearl's On/Off measurements were higher than the Mits. Weird?

JHouse

11-10-06, 10:16 PM

It is interesting to note that Jason's (~) ANSI contrast measurements of the Mits 5000 were higher than the Pearl, while the Pearl's On/Off measurements were higher than the Mits. Weird?

So Darin, what does this mean?

woolfman

11-10-06, 11:53 PM

Digital2004

11-11-06, 01:01 AM

My biggest dissappointment is not with the Mits in particular (I've already bought my projector for the next couple of years, so I wouldn't be buying this one anyway), but rather with the D6 panels. They are not what many were expecting in terms of on/off contrast. We had some folks around here a few months ago talking about 3K:1 native contrast, and it's not even close. It may be a really good LCD panel, but it's still an LCD panel.

However, I must say, I don't think screen door is a minus for the Mits (at least, not based on this report), since I can see screen door on my Pearl at 1.2 SW. Of course, maybe my vision is more accute in this regard?

I know it's not possible to draw any conclusions from the small number of Mitsubishi's that have been tested, but I wonder if convergence and shading might be other areas where the Mits might have an advantage.

But even with those plusses, I think it takes a lot to overcome the *much* lower on/off contrast, the visible DI operation, and the lack of lumens.

The biggest problem with the Mits, IMHO, is the combination of low contrast and low brightness. After 200 hours of bulb use, you'll likely have somewhere between 276 and 387 lumens in high bulb mode. So unless you're rockin' a high gain screen, you'll have a dim picture, and furthering the problem is the fact that the low-contrast will result in unsatisfactory blacks. Just my two cents. Take it for what it's worth.

your screen is what 50" wide to see the Pearl pixels ??? :) :)

the Mits structure is however still visible at 4meters!

emptychair

11-11-06, 08:24 AM

So Darin, what does this mean?

I'm not Darin but I think it means deeper blacks in dark scenes for the Pearl but better contrast in light scenes for the HC5000.

emptychair

11-11-06, 08:31 AM

I saw the 5000 for the first time tonight and I was not very impressed. It was dim and the colors where as sharp and punchy as the 3000dlp mits. I actually think the 3000 is better and 2500 less msrp. Just my observations.

Did you notice any differences in contrast or black levels? Or was the difference in brightness enough to make the 3000 better than the 5000? I'm assuming then the source you were using was unable to show any resolution/detail advantage the 5000 might have?

rnrgagne

11-11-06, 11:06 AM

Unless I'm blind I can't see the pixel structure past 1X screen width. And that requires some serious effort. I don't know where 4 meters came from unless it was a 12' wide screen.

Gerry, now that I've got the 5000 in my HT, I would say that with HD-DVD and good HDTV content is where this unit really separates itself from my previous PJ.

Also the upconversion of SD-DVD (480i thru HDMI) is truly exceptional, nearly HD quality. I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I have hundreds of SD DVD's so this is very important and perhaps should be considered a bit more when comparing to other PJ's
At this point I'm not really concerned how the unit measures or compares to other PJs, what I care about is what's in front of me and I am very impressed with what I see. Coming from the Epson Cinema 500 this is a big improvement in every aspect. (It could have 5:1 contrast ratio and if the picture looks this good why worry?)
I suppose it's a different story if you are shopping for one and can't test drive it - you want to know as much as possible before throwing down a huge chunk of change. I think it boils down to what is right for your particular tastes and application.

KramerTC

11-11-06, 12:07 PM

emptychair

11-11-06, 03:25 PM

Útgarðaloki

11-11-06, 05:42 PM

As stated further up in this thread (Havocsi) the big projector shoot-out in Stockholm is currently under way. I dropped by today mainly to see the shoot-out between four of the 1080p candidates:

Mitsubishi HC5000 (prod-unit)
Panasonic PT-AE1000 (?)
Sharp XV-Z210000 (pre-unit? Think I heard it was)
Pearl / Sony VW-50 (prod-unit)

These four were located in the same room described above by Havocsi:

perfect light controlled room with a 135" Stewart StudioTek 130

I must mention that in the midst of excitement :D I totally forgot to ask about the state of the Pana as well as of the Sharp. Sorry about that :o
All were fed the same 1080i HD-DVD source. All were D65 calibrated (all though the calibrators told us they had had some problems with the colour side of things with the Pearl due to its gamut being too wide (I guess time constrains were part of the issue here as D65 is supposed to be possible?) leaving the colours a tad too saturated. Other than that D65 was said to be achieved on all four, all categories). Shifting between them was done by covering the lenses with pieces of cardboard. This shifting method is of course very effective as the swapping back and forth goes very fast – the picture of the last projector is still fresh in your eyes as the next one comes on making any difference very obvious (and shifting was done in many different types of scenes – dark, light, colourful, non-colourful etc. spanning several different movies).

So how did it go?
Well for starters the Sharp more or less crushed the “competition” (it is more expensive than the others – twice the price of the least expensive HC5000 in Scandinavia (Sweden) - so it can hardly be considered a realistic competitor in this regard). Since I’m going for the HC5000 placing the Sharp in the same shoot-out almost made me feel like “why the hell do you place these two together :mad: ”. Hardly a justified feeling ;) since I would never buy the Sharp (too expensive for my taste) but it really made “my” HC5000 seem quite lame in comparison. Everything about the Sharp was extraordinary:

+ Very sharp (probably even sharper than the very sharp HC5000)
+ Very good contrast (left nothing to be desired and comparing to the others only cemented this notion)
+ Very dark blacks (it was sometimes hard to spot where the black borders of the projector and the non-projected parts of the screen began – extremely good)
+ shadow details

(Possible) bads
- RBE (I think I saw it vaguely once or twice, nothing to write home about)
- dithering (I tried to spot it… couldn’t find it from where I was sitting 3-4 meters from screen)
- It was sertainly much louder in operation than the rest. The room was filled with people (subtile chattering) and had a presenter talking most of the time and during this the Sharp could be heard most of the time as long as I stood near it. Might be somewhat distracting during those subtile, quiet kissing scenes :p Well what ever.

I have never been a huge fan of DLP due to me being quite sensitive to RBE. I would how ever have no problem living with this Sharp since it was hard (for me) to spot any such thing. I’ve heard/read others though claiming they could never “put up with this”.
If you're sensitive to this kind of thing you should still give this projector a chance. It is that good.

On to the next ones.
This is the hard part. To me there is no doubt the real competitors in this shoot-out were the Pearl and the HC5000 (the Sharp was something else but so was the price. About the Pana see below).
The Pearl had considerably better blacks than the HC5000. Shadow detail was also better. The Pearl was also noticeably brighter than the HC5000. How ever while the HC5000 was probably the least bright out of the bunch it still managed to produce a very nice picture (taking the others into consideration). Not too dim in my opinion (the screen was very large) all though the others certainly had a tad more pop (Pearl and probably Pana) to quite a lot more pop (Sharp).
The sharpness of the HC5000 was how ever very good. Considerably better than both the Pearl and the Pana. Probably not as sharp as the Sharp though (one chip DLP – very good alignment).
After what I’ve seen I’ll stick with the HC5000 – the Pearl, even though it has a lot of advantages over the HC5000, is way too soft for my preference. The HC5000 how ever is very good (for an LCD) and has better than average sharpness (something I desire). Both can handle larger screens (fairly new bulbs present). In Scandinavia there is also a quite big difference in price between the two. From what I read in this forum there is less of a difference in North America though.

So what about the Panasonic PT-AE1000?
The picture was very smooth or rather way too soft compared to the others. What the hell! Hello smooth-screen :eek: What were they thinking? They don’t need that for Christ’s sake! This is 1080p – the distance from where I start noticing SDE on any 1080p projector I’ve seen so far is way to close to the screen for any normal viewing. So why add it? Looks good on the paper? Well I don’t know. All I know is I’ll pass. The picture was very similar to the one of HC5000 in most regards. Noticeable differences were that it seemed a tad brighter and, as I said, way to soft (while the HC5000 was very sharp/adjacent details were kept separate/looked very nice). It was also a good deal more expensive than the HC5000. As expensive (Scandinavia) as the Pearl as a matter of fact/total deal breaker in my opinion. It had none of the Pearl’s strengths but rather more of the Pearl’s one real weakness in my opinion - too much softness compared to the potential of 1080p resolution. The very good sharpness of 1080p doesn’t stem from exaggerated menu sharpness settings (making the picture look unnatural) but rather due to the fact that such pictures contain an amount of detail that comes closer to the capability limit of the human eye compared to the lower resolution projectors. This advantage is too much lost on the Panasonic due to the smooth-screen technology in my opinion. And to no good advantage - I couldn’t spot SDE on neither the HC5000 nor the Pana. The only difference was that the HC5000 made me say “sharp!” while the Pana made me want to look for any glasses lying around. Why put your development money on smooth-screen when all you need to do is give the projector badly aligned panels - same effect, less money. Go figure! The Pana PT-AE1000 isn’t a bad projector but considering the competition…

And one more thing.
At one point a dim light was turned on in order to showcase the performance in less than ideal light conditions found in many a home (the room used during this exhibition is natively pitch black since it contains no windows. So dark in fact that it was hard to make out whether the walls were white or black). This of course made the black levels of the different contenders more even. Under such conditions the performance of the Pearl, HC5000 and Pana turned out more similar even though the difference in sharpness was still quite obvious. The overall “pop” and superior contrast of the Sharp though still tended to tell the others to lie down and so they did.
But all in all the HC5000 is a very good projector and after what I’ve seen I will be very satisfied with it.