Thanks for your thoughts :) The Panny was never really a consideration for me because of what you have found, which is the smoothscreen image is too soft. I have a 900 right now and am looking forward to getting rid of it. Nice Report!

...I would love to see a shootout between the Mits HC5000, the Pearl and the 720p lcd projectors. It's all about relative differences. What us potential buyers are upgrading from and what the alternatives have to offer.

I've seen a shoot out between the HC5000 (early pre-unit) and the HC3100 (prod-unit). Don't remember the screen type or size but it was probably between 90"-100" in size. This HC5000 was so early calibration was fixed (i.e. it was way off). It is therefore quite unfair to comment on contrast, colours and the likes but the one thing that stood out and quite literally so was the sharpness and detail. As I've spoken about above, even among the other 1080p projectors the sharpness of the HC5000 is stellar. The signal fed was an 1080i HDTV over satellite. The sharpness and detail of the HC5000 absolutely crushed that of the HC3100. It was no comparing really in this regard. Details were completely smothered on the HC3100 compared to those of the HC5000.

We're currently building a new home with a dedicated home theater room and the 1080p Mits is very, VERY tempting (I just found out about it). What are people paying for this in the U.S.? Will there be a Power Buy or something here for less anytime soon, you think?

I ask because, right now, I've been told it's very hard to find and, therefore, there are no discounts to be had. I'm just trying to decide if it's worth it or not. We were all set to go with the Optoma 72 DLP before this.

Útgarðaloki- Thanks for your write up as I am looking at getting the Sharp XV-Z21000 myself to replace my Marantz VP-12S3. Did you get a chance to hear its fan noise and therefore how loud it is? Did they have any other 1080P DLP's there as I thought they were going to have the more-

The followin projectors will be shown:
1080p:
- Mitsubishi HC5000
- Optoma HD81
- Sony VW-50
- Sharp XV-Z210000
- Projection Design Action! model3
- Marantz VP-11S1
- Sim2 HT3000

Wanted to see your thoughts on how the Marantz VP-11S1, Optoma HD-81, and Sim2 HT3000 stack up against each other.

FYI....

The latest issue of Home Theater Magazine stated that the HD HQV benchmark would be available now. Unfortunately, there is still considerable work to be done on the disc before it can be released for the public, and it won’t be ready until December/January. We appreciate your interest and apologize for the delay. The HD DVD version of the benchmark will be issued first,and the Blu-ray version of the benchmark will be released after that.


For more information please visit hqv

1080p Shootout by projectorcentral:

Mitsubishi HC5000
Optoma HD81
Panasonic PT-AE1000U
Sony VPL-VW50

What we need:

Cine4home shootout!

Mitsubishi HC5000 vs Sony Pearl VPL-VW50 vs JVC DLA-RS1 vs Panasonic PT-AE1000U

Does anyone know when the hc5000 will be available in the UK and at what price?

How much is it on sale for in Sweden and when did it come out, having real trouble locating one in the UK.

Thanks

Foo

Did you notice any differences in contrast or black levels? Or was the difference in brightness enough to make the 3000 better than the 5000? I'm assuming then the source you were using was unable to show any resolution/detail advantage the 5000 might have?

I haven't seen the 5000 but I HAVE seen the Ruby. The picture was not particularly birght having a washed out nature. A couple of days later I saw the mits 3000 dlp at a friend's house and was very impressed. The picture was much brighter and the colors much more vivid. I have owned two dlp front projectors and both were much brighter and vivid than the Sony Ruby (and Pearl since they are essentially the same projector). So, I am beginning to get more interested in seeing the new Sharp 1080i single chip dlp. Fan noise and rainbow effects be damned, for a street price of around $6800 it may very well be the one to beat.

Here it is the real "Why" Sanyo Has still not given to us HIs VPR FULL HD...

http://www.avmagazine.it/news/htpc/1505.html

I'm really sorry about it

walk on
sasadf

Can you give us a rough translation?

Can you give us a rough translation?

Use http://translate.google.com, Luke :)

In simple words, Sanyo is going down, deeply down....

walk on
sasadf

...BUT, I have to told you something...

I've had many troubles in installing this VPR on ceiling mount.... :confused:


first of all, it isn't like the other, VPR: it has ONLY Three screws!!

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/3824/fondomitsuip1.th.jpg (http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fondomitsuip1.jpg)

As you can see, the 3 screws are not positioned with some sort of sense.....

Then when I've tried to fix it into my HUSHBOX....
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/9508/fondomitsuhc5000001ma6.th.jpg (http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fondomitsuhc5000001ma6.jpg)

I Founded that the holes for fixing the screws are so tiny and short that I've been constricted to fix it to the table of wood of mine Hushbox!! :mad:

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/3497/rearqy3.th.jpg (http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rearqy3.jpg)
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/1263/fondomitsuhi4.th.jpg (http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fondomitsuhi4.jpg)

SO; PAy attention when you'll consider an installation @ceiling: it would be difficult (even in the instruction I've founded that Mitsu does not give this advise).
If You have any possibility, try to use it in the front position....

walk on
sasadf

In simple words, Sanyo is going down, deeply down....


Considering you're not that pro-Sanyo minded ;) , it sounds more of a wish than an objective analysis in my ears.

This article from CNN (http://money.cnn.com/2006/11/24/news/international/sanyo.reut/index.htm) describes Sanyos struggles to get the company on foot again. Like every other business, you can either sell, restructure or take other precautions to make unsound parts of a company sound again. It means Sanyo will make som heavy reforms in the digital cameras and mobile phones market, where they're loosing money. Not selling or closing, but cutting to the bone.

On an operating level, Sanyo was able to return to profitability thanks in large part to cost cuts in its semiconductor unit as well as strong sales of commercial products such as showcase refrigerators.

Now that is contradicting the dramatical going down, deeply down.... statement quite a bit :rolleyes: Sanyo is not in the red and are even succesfull with commercial products and cutting costs.

When it comes to the projector division, Sanyo has nothing to worry about. Sanyo has three times in a row delivered LCD projectors in the lower price range that have not only sold succesfully, but being equally critically praised.

Their newest Z5 has an astonishing sharpness and shadow detail with the older D5 panels, that no other LCD projector with same panels have achieved to match. That paired with the Sanyos very close partnership with Epson regarding a 1080p 7.1" screen, will make it very interesting to see how far Sanyo can push the new Epson C2Fine panels regarding blacklevel, contrast end shadowdetail.

I don't doubt for a moment, it will be quite a lot better, than HC5000 and Panasonic PT-AE1000U has managed with. Getting first to market can be rewarding, but it comes with a price also.

Wait and see and the Z-HD1 will impress just as much in the 1080p area, as Sanyo did with their Z'ers in the 720p area.

Unless I'm blind I can't see the pixel structure past 1X screen width. And that requires some serious effort. I don't know where 4 meters came from unless it was a 12' wide screen.

Gerry, now that I've got the 5000 in my HT, I would say that with HD-DVD and good HDTV content is where this unit really separates itself from my previous PJ.

Also the upconversion of SD-DVD (480i thru HDMI) is truly exceptional, nearly HD quality. I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I have hundreds of SD DVD's so this is very important and perhaps should be considered a bit more when comparing to other PJ's
At this point I'm not really concerned how the unit measures or compares to other PJs, what I care about is what's in front of me and I am very impressed with what I see. Coming from the Epson Cinema 500 this is a big improvement in every aspect. (It could have 5:1 contrast ratio and if the picture looks this good why worry?)
I suppose it's a different story if you are shopping for one and can't test drive it - you want to know as much as possible before throwing down a huge chunk of change. I think it boils down to what is right for your particular tastes and application.


Hi, rnrgagne, how are you feeding the mits form the sd dvd, just straight or thru a scaler?

Hi, rnrgagne, how are you feeding the mits form the sd dvd, just straight or thru a scaler?

My Pioneer puts out 480i via HDMI and I use a RX-V2700 for HDMI switching in pass- through mode.
I'm strictly using the processing of the Mits which is excellent for my needs.

which pioneer you have?

I doubt this PJ needs a hushbox so installing it on a mount to the ceiling is not that difficult. Since you're using a DIY hushbox, it's always difficult to mount a hushbox to the ceiling. Consider a professional hushbox like www.whisperflow.com which is likely overkill for this PJ.

Infact, at the end of the Test Day I've Decided to leave the Hushbox W/out the double glass used to separate the VPR from the rest of the room, taking a considerable acoustical advantage(when I had The Epson TW500.

BEFORE IVQ '06
(EPSON TW-500 & HUSHBOX w/Double Glass)
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/5586/beforewx9.th.jpg (http://img216.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beforewx9.jpg)

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/3355/before2vo8.th.jpg (http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=before2vo8.jpg)


But when today I've realized that was true what they're saying about the silent operation and functioning of this Beautiful Machine, I've Decided to not use the Double glass.

AFTER IVQ '06
(MITSUBISHI HC5000 w/out Double Glass)

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/8330/afterfa1.th.jpg (http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=afterfa1.jpg)

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/9546/after2rb0.th.jpg (http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=after2rb0.jpg)

the First Test was made With a Marantz Dv9600 >HDMI>HDMI (G&BL Professional Italian Cables (http://www.avmagazine.it/forum/showthread.php?t=28867)) @576i(test not passed: deinterlacing problems) ; @480p & 576P (good Work from the HQV Reon even in Deinterlacing then in scaling the image); @720P (Better Work in scaling from the ABT inside the MArantz from 576 or 480 to 720: the rest of the work from Reon was excellent); @1080i (at this resolution, first the ABT make the scaling work till 1080, then the REON makes the deinterlacing work: this double sinergy makes an image soft and a not sharper screen as the 1080p: but very "Cinema like"); @1080P (deinterlacing from the T-REx2 Pioneer in Marantz, then scaling to 1080p from the ABT also in Marantz 9600: the Reon at this resolution is not used: the best image: sharper than the others, but a big problem with a disturbing edge enhancement, and a very massive presence of Mosquitos...).

Tonight I'll Use my HTPC(Xp4600+ dual core: Radeon 1900xt, 1gb ram) Via >DVI>DVI (G&BL Professional Italian Cables (http://www.avmagazine.it/forum/showthread.php?t=28867))

Walk on
sasadf

First, thanks to everyone for their helpful posts. I'm 99% sold on the Mitsu 5000 but I really want to see it in person first.

Does anyone know a store or showroom in the greater Seattle area that has one on display? I've been calling around to several stores but have had no luck. Please help!

Thanks,
Alex

What we need:

Cine4home shootout!

Mitsubishi HC5000 vs Sony Pearl VPL-VW50 vs JVC DLA-RS1 vs Panasonic PT-AE1000U


Well, we hope to get a PT-AE1000 sample early December. By the way, our english version of the HC5000 review is up on www.cine4home.com

Regards,
Ekkehart

Thanks Ekkehart, i waited so many time this translation...

walk on
sasadf

Excellent translation, many thanks!

Bookmark this page using Google to do real-time translation from german to English:
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cine4home.de%2F&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools

I love cine4home. Gutting and benchmarking to the bone.

Mine is coming within a week.

I would love to hear more feedback from you new owners about the nitpicks levied against the Mits, namely the brightness, contrast and DI operation. I'm not worried about SDE at all. I like the sharpness and processing abilities of the Mits a lot.

My main worry/fear about the Mits are the brightness and contrast issues.

One last thing. Am I correct in looking at the pictures that the intake vent is on the side with the lens and the exhaust is out the rear of the pj?

Bookmark this page using Google to do real-time translation from german to English:
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cine4home.de%2F&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools

That'd be great, except that cine4home.de's reviews are too long for that translator.

Nice review. The projector sounds like a really good one. I'm planning on getting the JVC right now, but I'll definitely have to keep watch on the Mits until then. I love the sound of that silent operation. I'll be really curious to see how the overall picture quality stacks up to the JVC.

That'd be great, except that cine4home.de's reviews are too long for that translator.
The review pages are the longest I've ever seen on any web site. All free translators fail with Goggle lasting the longest.
The web design needs other refinements too as their should be separate URL's for each new page.

Technically, I miss the HD 1080i bandwidth tests the most.

I would love to hear more feedback from you new owners about the nitpicks levied against the Mits, namely the brightness, contrast and DI operation. I'm not worried about SDE at all. I like the sharpness and processing abilities of the Mits a lot.

One last thing. Am I correct in looking at the pictures that the intake vent is on the side with the lens and the exhaust is out the rear of the pj?
Sorry to quote myself, but can any owners comment on brightness, contrast and the location of the intake/exhaust?

Facing the lens/front, the intake is on the right and the exhaust + bulb door is on the left.

I don't own one yet, so can't comment on the brightness/contrast.

Thanks Shagman, that's what I thought from the pics, but then it looked like some of them had been reverse imaged.

Interesting in the review that almost nothing was made of its modest light output. I suppose this can be managed with a high power screen in most instances - but I wonder how big a deal it is in the scheme of things.

OTOH my HS10 was considered a dim projector, yet it never felt that way until the very end of its bulb life, and I was using a negative gain gray screen.

Agreed that it is interesting. But I still say that no one really talked about light output until the past year. It seems like that's a huge deal now.

Interesting in the review that almost nothing was made of its modest light output. I suppose this can be managed with a high power screen in most instances - but I wonder how big a deal it is in the scheme of things.

OTOH my HS10 was considered a dim projector, yet it never felt that way until the very end of its bulb life, and I was using a negative gain gray screen.

Hmm, this is what I read;

"Measured Contrast and Light output
Mitsubishi HC5000;


D65/Middle Auto1 440 600 3200:1
D65/Middle Auto2 440 600 5800:1
D65/Middle Auto3 440 600 4000:1
D65/Middle Off 440 600 720:1

Hi-Bright Auto1 800 1100 5600:1
Hi-Bright Auto2 800 1100 10300:1
Hi-Bright Auto3 800 1100 7100:1
Hi-Bright Off 800 1100 1300:1


With up to 600 lumens during correct color representation the HC5000 clearly belongs to the brighter projectors, which can also project display widths of over 3 meters without a problem. The presentation at the IFA this year was a very good example. And should the need for more light reserves arise occasionally (for example watching TV in low light conditions), then the projector offers up to 1100 lumens of light reserves."

So the question becomes "modest output" compared to what?

Most PJ's, rated around 1000 lumens, that I've read about were maxing out around 300 lumens once calibrated.
So comparitavely 600 lumens at D65 isn't exactly dim.
I know that's in high lamp mode but it's still D65 and with a 5000hr bulb, and even if the bright mode cuts that in half, you're still within comparable numbers to other PJ's bulb life in low lamp mode.

I guess I would have to compare it to my projector to get a relative idea of the difference.

Ekkhart,

That is cool. The Panasonic AE1000 sounds interesting, but my interest is the comparison between the JVC and the Mitsubishi and Pearl. I know the JVC will probably be alot better than the Mitsubishi, but I wonder by how much.

Beep beep, wrong forum, Pearl detox here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=752043

But i know it will win, just like Blu-Ray did. Did i hear Bose?


Sorry, my bad...

Does the HC5000 accept the 1080p VGA signal from the xbox 360?

What I want to know is why is the native on/off contrast of this projector so low? I thought C2Fine was supposed to dramatically decrease black levels.

Sorry to quote myself, but can any owners comment on brightness, contrast and the location of the intake/exhaust?I have a small screen so the brightness is quite adequate for me - I get >30ftL in low mode. I think the contrast / black level is decent enough not to bother me, and this is from someone who's coming from (AC) CRT projector. I have a completely black and light controlled room. I've had other CRT folks visiting here and some have thought the black level isn't low enough. Of course it could be lowered by color filtering (driving the panels at full potential) or by sacrificing some lumens (with an ND filter).

Does the HC5000 accept the 1080p VGA signal from the xbox 360?I doubt it because 1280x1024 is listed as max resolution and it's also the biggest I've been able to use. Maybe a firmware update could enable 1080p VGA input.

Don't think this is a repeat question, as I have reviewed a major portion of this thread. How does the HC5000 compare to the Z5 for "calibrated brightness" at 1/2 of the respective zoom distances? It was a bit confusing for me to cleanly determine this from the reviews at www.projectorcentral.com. I am really leaning to the HC5000 due to its minimal pixel structure and indistinguishable SDE, but I do watch considerably more HD sports and broadcast programming than I do movies, and the conventional discussion conveys some doubt as to if the HC5000 (or even Z5) is bright enough for a 115" diag. screen. I do have good light control with full blackout capability and am painting the walls darker..a taupe color, but I imagine there will be plenty of times I would like to relax the blackout shade of my skylight a bit to have more ambient light while viewing sports.... I am locked into a 1.16 gain SMX AT screen with no ability to go with higher gain due to my need for a practical AT screen. But, I think this is a very respectable gain for a AT screen also.

I have tried VGA from xbox at 1080p. It does not handle this resolution at the present time. The picture was washed out completely and therefore unwatchable at that resolution with the xbox VGA. I was dissappointed as this seems to presently be the only way to get 1080p with HD-DVD. I am still using component out and getting good results with 1080i.

I put my HC5000BL on order today.

I highly recommend AVS for getting this projector, the price was nice and Jason was nice enough once I got through to him on the phone.

I have tried VGA from xbox at 1080p. It does not handle this resolution at the present time. The picture was washed out completely and therefore unwatchable at that resolution with the xbox VGA. I was dissappointed as this seems to presently be the only way to get 1080p with HD-DVD. I am still using component out and getting good results with 1080i.

This is not good. Do you manually switch to 720p for the games or keep the 1080i? Does the 1080i have any impact on games frame rate? Games can run at more than the 30hz limit of 1080i I believe...

I leave the Xbox 360 in 1080p. When I start a HD-DVD the component output automatically switches to 1080i. The dashboard is output to the projector at 1080p. I do not know about games since I do not use it for that purpose. I will however have my son check it next time he is around. Also there is no upscaling of regular DVDs over the component output. The xbox switches to the DVD resolution when a DVD is played. All of this adds up to the fact that I purchased this projector with upscaling and 1080p in mind but have not been able to do it. You should be aware of these limitations when purchasing. As a note I check the resolution by bringing up the projector menu and selecting "info" which shows the resolution that is being output to the projector. Keep in mind that there is no way that I know of to force the xbox to output at a higher res. I keep it set at 1080p and it swithes on its own!

You most likely want the projector to upscale the DVD image (instead of the XBOX) because of the higher quality scaler in the projector.... so your scenario for DVDs is actually good!

I'll be in a tougher spot, because I'll be using the HD-A1 to playback DVD's, and it sounds like it'd be better for the projector to do it... but the HD-A1 stays in one resolution for everything.

I leave the Xbox 360 in 1080p. When I start a HD-DVD the component output automatically switches to 1080i. The dashboard is output to the projector at 1080p.

This is confusing to me. Are you saying that the projector DOES detect the XBOX Dashboard as 1080p via the VGA cable? Because your phrasing seems to indicate you are now set up with component and running 1080i that is then upconverted or utilized by the projector with a fine result, and if this is the case, how does the projector sense a 1080p at all if you are using the component cable (since I think it is limited to 1080i)..even if it is the dashboard.

On another note, I have read somewhere that the VGA connection from the 360 is 1080p capable after a software upgrade. Does not sound like you game (and rely on your son's expertise there) Is your 360 connected to XBOX Live? If so, did a software upgrade occur? (it likely could not have unless you were updated via xbox live). I am not sure of this process myself but am considering embarking on the same path as you as I have a 360 and am about to make a pj decision. Just curious if maybe the problem you are experiencing is because some sw update did occur.

but that you have not been able to get 1080p out to the projector yet w

Let me make this clear! The projector will not take 1080p over the VGA input at all! The xbox will output 1080p with the HD-DVD but it is unusable by me since the VGA input of the projector cannot handle that resolution over VGA! Next I have reverted back to the component cables. The xbox will and does output 1080p over this connection. It is however restricted to 1080i over this connection (component) durring HD-DVD playback due to the restrictions by the copy protection gods (microsoft is just following the rules!). I have all present upgrades installed! THE dashboard IS outputted at 1080p and I would assume that games are as well using the component cables. The only way the xbox can output 1080p with HD-DVD is over the VGA cable due to restrictions. Again this is not usable by me!

Has anyone tried outputting 1080p via VGA through an HTPC at all? I am just trying to see if this is an Xbox or Mitsubishi problem.

It's probably on hte Mitsu... The specs call for 1080x1920 via PC, but the next line down on the PDF also states the DVI-D as a PC input heheh.

Has anyone tried outputting 1080p via VGA through an HTPC at all?I've tried, without success. Maybe tweaking porches could help but I doubt it.

This is unfortunate because my nVidia card refuses to work with DVI. :mad:

I wonder if this is an issue with the fact that VGA is still considered an analog video source while DVI is considered a digital video source.

It looks like the Xbox360 VGA 1080p output issue was an Xbox issue. They released an update today to resolve this problem. Let us know if this fixed it for you.

Dashboard Update (aka the 1080p fix)
The next time you sign into Xbox Live, you’ll be prompted for a dashboard update. The update contains:

Improved support for HD video output over VGA, including 1080p resolution
Improved plug and play performance for wired headsets when being used with wireless controllers
Changes made to recently played games list to improve accuracy
This update is being rolled out across the world, so you may not get it exactly at this moment, so be patient.

Does the new update fix the 1080p via VGA on the Mitsu?

Since this projector includes HQV scaling and deinterlacing, just about the most sophisticated video processing available, why all the angst about the projector accepting 1080p? If you feed it 1080i its internal circuitry should provide just about as good an image as possible.

Since this projector includes HQV scaling and deinterlacing, just about the most sophisticated video processing available, why all the angst about the projector accepting 1080p? If you feed it 1080i its internal circuitry should provide just about as good an image as possible.

Tom, do you infer then, that the pq of an HD-DVD at 1080i into the pj will be indiscernible from 1080p via vga if it gets to be working?

Secondly, does your statement also infer that broadcast HDTV over 1080i will be discernibly better than native 720p? But, I assume still less good as HD-DVD as while the format is the same, the raw information of the source content is still less for the broadcast HDTV stream at 1080i?

Since this projector includes HQV scaling and deinterlacing, just about the most sophisticated video processing available, why all the angst about the projector accepting 1080p? If you feed it 1080i its internal circuitry should provide just about as good an image as possible.

Yeah, but all you get from 1080i 60 is 1080p 30... not 1080p 60. For those wanting all they can get from a game, twice the frame rate is better.

Tom, do you infer then, that the pq of an HD-DVD at 1080i into the pj will be indiscernible from 1080p via vga if it gets to be working?Absolutely. Completely a non-issue.
Secondly, does your statement also infer that broadcast HDTV over 1080i will be discernibly better than native 720p?
But, I assume still less good as HD-DVD as while the format is the same, the raw information of the source content is still less for the broadcast HDTV stream at 1080i?Well, it will certainly be higher resolution, so, yes, all else being equal (it rarely is) 1080i should look better. Moreover, at 1080i no scaling is required.

And yes, on average HD DVD is a better source than broadcast HD. However, there are exceptions. There is quite a bit of variation in terms of quality from both sources.

Yeah, but all you get from 1080i 60 is 1080p 30... not 1080p 60. For those wanting all they can get from a game, twice the frame rate is better.

Yes, but you will still get 1080p in games with the component cable. So there's no issue there either.

It's just when playing HD DVD movies that the Xbox 360 is restricted to 1080i through the component cable. And this is by design from Microsoft (following the rules) and has nothing to do with the Mitsu.

And like the TomHuffman said, I'd rather let the Mitsu HC5000 do the processing job on the HD DVD's with it's execellent video chip than the Xbox 360.

So unless you really really feel like using the VGA cable for some reason on the Xbox 360, we're in a win win situation with the componet cable.

So stay with the component cable when using the Xbox 360 with the Mitsu HC 5000. You loose nothing, probably gain a little instead by letting the Mitsu's silicon Optics chip de-interlace the 1080i from HD DVD's.

Although I may agree with you that most will not be able to tell the difference between 1080p and a deinterlaced 1080i, I must point out that there is no deinterlacing to be done if the signal displayed is 1080p. The xbox at that point is just passing the original signal on and there is no deinterlacing to be done. So the chipset of the xbox is not a factor. If no deinterlacing is done, the signal has to be better (whether or not the difference can actually be seen)!

Although I may agree with you that most will not be able to tell the difference between 1080p and a deinterlaced 1080i, I must point out that there is no deinterlacing to be done if the signal displayed is 1080p. The xbox at that point is just passing the original signal on and there is no deinterlacing to be done. So the chipset of the xbox is not a factor. If no deinterlacing is done, the signal has to be better (whether or not the difference can actually be seen)!

Are you aware that even the coming "high end" Toshiba XA2 HD DVD player reads off the 1080p24 content stored on the disc creating a 1080i/60 signal which then goes through a de-interlacer chip (found in 1080p televisions and projectors too) creating the 1080p signal that it then sends out its HDMI connection?

That the current BlueRay players out there does the exact same thing. That no player as of today, being BlueRay or HD DVD, puts out the pure 1080p/24 signal, but rather creates a 1080i/60 signal through a 3:2 pulldown process which they then send out directly as 1080i/60 OR let it pass through a de-interlacer chip (inside the player still) to create a 1080p/60 signal for output.

I find it very hard to believe that given the pricing of the Xbox 360 and it's add on player that it would be able to pull of those things that you (and everyone else) wish it could do when other more expensive solutions can not do it.

So... in reality - we loose nothing because I think the only affordable technical solution for the Xbox 360 would be the same as those others players out there - 3:2 pulldown of the 1080p/24 content - creating a 1080i/60 signal - put it through a de-interlacer to create 1080p60 signal. But without such a chip in the 360 we get the 1080i/60 signal for processing inside our HC 5000 instead. But even if the 360 could put out 1080p.. - given the execellent chip on the Mitsubishi - I'd rather let it do the de-interlacing. In fact - if I buy a stand alone player, blue ray or HD-DVD today - I might want to feed it the 1080i signal if it (the mitsu that is) does the de-interlacing better than the player.

So today - there is no "pure" 1080p out of any player that you talk about, they are all processed solutions from 1080p/24 to 1080i/60 and de-interlaced into 1080p which then comes out the HDMI.

But they are coming later. And there a discussions about maybe the toshiba actually will be able to put out a 1080p/24 signal. But toshiba has not stated that it will yet.

Buy an Xbox 360 with the option drive and VGA cable. Try this yourself! Dont make up things on your own! The xbox does produce a 1080p output for HD-DVD over the VGA output. I have proven this! But it cannot the used by the mits. because the mits does not accept this resolution over VGA. So the only present hardware that I know of that does do 1080p out for HD-DVD is the Xbox. So before making statments about what hardware can do what, you need to actually see it in action and not rely on theories. I do own this eqipment and I am simply passing on information so that people can be more informed (warned) befor purchase. I do not intend to get into some shooting match with someone who has oviously not tried this on this equipment. This is my last staement on this subject. I have much better things to do that argue about this.

Rogerdata,

Did you get the dash update that came out yesterday and test again? I just want to see if the update resolved the issue or not. Thanks for testing.

Since I still have the old Pioneer 59AVi, do I get a better picture by sending a 480i signal into the projector instead of 1080i ??? Thanks.



Since this projector includes HQV scaling and deinterlacing, just about the most sophisticated video processing available, why all the angst about the projector accepting 1080p? If you feed it 1080i its internal circuitry should provide just about as good an image as possible.

Nomarian;
Yes I have the update (last night) but I have not had time to test. Will do so tomorrow and let you know here. I however do not think it will help since I belive the problem with not being able to display 1080p over VGA is a limitation of the Mits. not the xbox. But I will try it never the less. Look for the answer around this time tomorrow.

Nomarian;
Yes I have the update (last night) but I have not had time to test. Will do so tomorrow and let you know here. I however do not think it will help since I belive the problem with not being able to display 1080p over VGA is a limitation of the Mits. not the xbox. But I will try it never the less. Look for the answer around this time tomorrow.


Will be interesting to hear your results Rogerdata....but it sounds like the VGA from the Mitsu just won't accept 1080p. Would be interesting if someone had a different display device to see if it can receive a 1080p from the XBOX WHILE PLAYING A HD-DVD. I would think that there is no "handshake issue" with VGA given it is an old standard before these digital handshakes were created.

By the way, I would not get hot or disturbed about the critical questions and thought. I don't think anyone is challenging the corrrectness of your statements. Rather, I see a nice thread of critical thinking to help in the fault isolation process. These things are difficult to communicate very detailed and cleanly sometimes and the absolute specifics are required for a complete understanding by all.

At this point, I must admit in all this detail if I even recall how you ruled out that the XBOX might, in fact, be at fault for displaying dashboard at 1080p and then kicking itself over to 1080i for the HD-DVD playback itself. I think you might have mentioned it in a previous post....so I must go back and look. But, I know for sure that even with my old xbox, the format used for the OSD (sometimes a 480i or something like that) did not always match exactly what it moved over to when the disc itself was played back (e.g. in 480p)

Davedelite;
I can varify that the xbox does keep 1080p output on VGA during HD-DVD playing. My screen however goes dark and does not sync well. I cannot varify how ever if another monitor would react properly to this signal. I am sure that there is no handshake issue since analoge is only one way. I have not yet tested since the update last night and I will do so as I said tomorrow.

No expert here, but aren't most current video cards/consoles optimized for VGA data 4:3 signal? As a result HD resolutions tend to look poor , at least with the current crop of video cards. Have a 7900GTX and it outputs a mediocre image to my PJ using HDMI and VGA 1080i/720p, but a superb image using VGA 1024/768, the optimized resolution for my game, IL2 Sturmovik.

No matter how many perks they claim, current videocards are still best at VGA/data. I think that this stems from the 4:3 resolution of many games and current computer displays. Nvidia and ATI, as well as the consoles (never will they ever match the PQ of a strong computer with plenty of memory and CPU power) need to sell to the masses to make a living. Video processing power in the best PCI card is still limited by size, so they focus on crowd pleasers.

Hope this makes sense.

I do VGA at 16:9 all the time, at 720P... also play DVD's at this resolution (1:1 pixel mapping and all) looks great.

Since I still have the old Pioneer 59AVi, do I get a better picture by sending a 480i signal into the projector instead of 1080i ??? Thanks.

That's what I do with my 59AVi, through HDMI obviously, and the results are excellent. I haven't tried any analog.

Davedelite;
Well I would not have believed it if I hadn't seen it! The XBOX update did fix the VGA problem and I am now able to output 1080p to the projector over VGA with the xbox.
I am currently watching Superman Returns at 1080p. Looks really good. I guess thats what I get for making assumptions! It may just be me but I think the 1080p looks better than the 1080i over component did. Kudos Microsoft I guess they do do somethings right.

Davedelite;
The XBOX update did fix the VGA problem and I am now able to output 1080p to the projector over VGA.

GREAT NEWS MAN! I'm going to order the Mitsu tomorrow! Thx!

yeah, great news, thanks for the update!!

That's great. I am glad the update did resolve the problem. Thanks for testing!

rogerdata,

That sounds great! Do you know what kind of sync the 360 uses after the update. Is it RGBS, RGBHV or RsGB? If I remember correctly, previously it outputted the sync embedded with green and this caused problems with many displays. What does the HC5000 show at the information page?

Has anybody succesfully used 1080/24p via HDMI? I tried it yesterday with DVDO VP30 but didn't get watchable picture.

Thanks for the info. But if that is the case, what's the use of those SD upconverting player, like Marantz 9600 ???



That's what I do with my 59AVi, through HDMI obviously, and the results are excellent. I haven't tried any analog.

Davedelite;
Well I would not have believed it if I hadn't seen it! The XBOX update did fix the VGA problem and I am now able to output 1080p to the projector over VGA with the xbox.
I am currently watching Superman Returns at 1080p. Looks really good. I guess thats what I get for making assumptions! It may just be me but I think the 1080p looks better than the 1080i over component did. Kudos Microsoft I guess they do do somethings right.

That's great news! :)

I'm enjoying my Xbox 360 on the Mitsu HC5000 too, and it simply looks stunning in my eyes. I do not have the VGA cable, but I use the component cable and I've set the 360 to 1080p for the dashboard.

And I've downloaded some HD DVD demoes in wmw format, all in 1080p, from the website: http://thelookandsoundofperfect.com and burned them to a standard recordable DVD and played them in the 360. And in these official hd dvd trailers the 360 actually let you output 1080p through component. Don't know why, but it does. And it's amazing. I will set my 360 to 1080i output on these same trailers later and see how the difference is.

How's the colors with the VGA cable vs the component cable? I've read some posts some time ago that some people thinked the VGA colors looked kinda washed out on some TV sets. How is it with the Mitsu projector?

rogerdata,

That sounds great! Do you know what kind of sync the 360 uses after the update. Is it RGBS, RGBHV or RsGB? If I remember correctly, previously it outputted the sync embedded with green and this caused problems with many displays. What does the HC5000 show at the information page?

Has anybody succesfully used 1080/24p via HDMI? I tried it yesterday with DVDO VP30 but didn't get watchable picture.


According to http://cine4home.de it's supposed to work because they've trid it. But I guess you already knew that. I'm afraid I can't help you you more than that though.

Thanks for the info. But if that is the case, what's the use of those SD upconverting player, like Marantz 9600 ???

Dont' know :)

I live in the PAL world (576i), and I have a Denon 1920 which and output 480p, 576p, 720p and 1080i through HDMI. And I've done some testing, and to me it seems that the Mitsu does a better job at scaling the picture, so I keep my Denon at 576p output (it won't output 576i through HDMI), unless I'm playing NTSC material, then the Denon outputs 480p.

Dont' know :)

I live in the PAL world (576i), and I have a Denon 1920 which and output 480p, 576p, 720p and 1080i through HDMI. And I've done some testing, and to me it seems that the Mitsu does a better job at scaling the picture, so I keep my Denon at 576p output (it won't output 576i through HDMI), unless I'm playing NTSC material, then the Denon outputs 480p.

I too am selling my HD Leeza as the Reon VX chip in the Mitsu will make it redundant.

I too am selling my HD Leeza as the Reon VX chip in the Mitsu will make it redundant.Do you realize that the HC5000 PAL film mode doesn't work properly? It drops out of 2:2 mode.

Do you realize that the HC5000 PAL film mode doesn't work properly? It drops out of 2:2 mode.The new firmware update should clear this issue.

For those who asked. The sync type says "5 wire". Can't say I know what that is! I can also say that the colors did look kind of washed out but after some tweeking they are just fine.
I can also varify that it is upconverting the regular DVDs to 1080p which it was not doing under component. I do not have an output source to do 1080p/24 so I cannot varify anything there.

For those who asked. The sync type says "5 wire". Can't say I know what that is! I can also say that the colors did look kind of washed out but after some tweeking they are just fine.
I can also varify that it is upconverting the regular DVDs to 1080p which it was not doing under component. I do not have an output source to do 1080p/24 so I cannot varify anything there.

Good news - I'm thinking about buying the HD DVD addon, and if it's really like you say that 1080p is somewhat better than 1080i out from the 360- and you are able to adjust the colors fine when using VGA - then I might buy me a VGA cable for it.

Still, I have a pre order on the Toshiba HD DVD XE1 (European version of XA2). Not sure if it's worth it though, all that extra money when there's so many people satisfied with the 360 add on player..

The new firmware update should clear this issue.Is this confirmed? Is there a release date for this firmware? I've seen nothing in this thread...

Is this confirmed? Is there a release date for this firmware? I've seen nothing in this thread...

At least two Swedish HC5000 owners have said that they received a firmware update which solves the PAL film mode problem. I don't know any more details.

I have a HC5000 coming in from Japan so I am curious if it will have that new firmware or not (probably not).

Anyone know if updating to the latest firmware is difficult? I mean, can you do it by yourself or only by Mitsubishi technicians?

Is this confirmed? Is there a release date for this firmware? I've seen nothing in this thread...It's already out, see this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=755569) thread. New units with serial number >0001440 have this update installed as standard.

I mean, can you do it by yourself or only by Mitsubishi technicians?Yes, it can be installed by yourself. Basically it's just sending a file via the serial port connection, but there has to be some sort of special trick because I was unable to perform the update. Hyperterminal program just timed out everytime I tried sending the file, so I'm guessing the projector has to be in a "receiving mode" when sending the file.

I've been waiting for someone here to tell what the special trick is (keeping my hopes up for a certain Norwegian gentleman :) ), rather than send the unit to service shop. I called them but they were unable to give any special instructions because they haven't actually updated any HC5000s yet. Maybe I will have to send my unit after I hear they've succesfully performed the update, that is if I don't manage to do the update first.

And a disclaimer for all trying to do this update themselves: if you screw it up, warranty won't most likely cover it.

Wow, I am having a very tough decision selecting the projector I want to replace my Panasonic AE900. At first I was set on the AE1000, but now after looking at the Mitsu I'm really torn. I don't like the reviews I've read on the Panny that says the image is slightly soft in HD, because that will be my primary viewing material (via PS3 Blu-Ray and HD-DVD).

Can anyone say overall which would be a better projector for my needs? The screen is roughly 105", it will be mounted on a shelf in the back of the room.

Sorry to be vague, but after reading multiple reviews on each unit, I'm back at square one it seems :(

Wow, I am having a very tough decision selecting the projector I want to replace my Panasonic AE900. At first I was set on the AE1000, but now after looking at the Mitsu I'm really torn. I don't like the reviews I've read on the Panny that says the image is slightly soft in HD, because that will be my primary viewing material (via PS3 Blu-Ray and HD-DVD).

Can anyone say overall which would be a better projector for my needs? The screen is roughly 105", it will be mounted on a shelf in the back of the room.

Sorry to be vague, but after reading multiple reviews on each unit, I'm back at square one it seems :(

I think you sort of answered your own question. One of the best attributes is the sharpness of the Mits. I have no idea why Panny went with the soothscreen on an HD projector... The Panny might have an edge in brightness but on a 106" screen I think the Mits will be more than ample. You might want to write yourself a list of what is important for your application & room and start checking off how many of these things one or the other excels at.

Wow, I am having a very tough decision selecting the projector I want to replace my Panasonic AE900. At first I was set on the AE1000, but now after looking at the Mitsu I'm really torn. I don't like the reviews I've read on the Panny that says the image is slightly soft in HD, because that will be my primary viewing material (via PS3 Blu-Ray and HD-DVD).

Can anyone say overall which would be a better projector for my needs? The screen is roughly 105", it will be mounted on a shelf in the back of the room.

Sorry to be vague, but after reading multiple reviews on each unit, I'm back at square one it seems :(

Don't think I can help you there. But from what I have read the latest crop of 1080p projectors are really good whether it be LCD, Lcos or DLP. The overall performances of these projectors are within shooting range of each other. So I based my purchasing decision on price/performance since my upgrade path is every 12-18 months. Lets say the Sharp Z20000 is the best of the current crop representing 100% of overall performance priced at $6,000+. Correctly me if I am wrong but at worst the Mistubushi should have 75% (hopefully more) of Z20000's overall performance with a price of $4,000. For 67% of the price you get 75% of the performance is not a bad deal. Unless of course there are certain must have features like a super high black level and ANSI contrast. If I were on a different upgrade path say 24-36 months, I'd wait for the JVC. There is of course no gaurantee that the JVC will worth the wait since it is not currently in production.
I think in Japan the AE1000 is selling for around $3,000. If you can find an importer for the AE1000 for around $3,000. The AE1000 is well worth considering. Espon is also going to release TW1000 which has a higher lumen and contrast rating.

The price of the HC 5000 via various import sellers has gone up approx $500.00.

Why has it gone up. Do you think that it will go back down after Christmas?

No idea. Perhaps it will come down. Buying within the US or Canada is pretty attractive now though. Not much difference in price. Warranty varies depending on source and using your credit card can potentially give you more warranty depending on your credit card. Anyhow, who knows why it's gone up. Come to think of it, I have never seen something come out at one price and then go up in price.

Unfortunately, it is waaayyy out of my league. I have been dreaming thinking I can afford a $5K projector. I am afraid $2K is my neighbourhood. I am willing to stretch to $3K now, especially considering that I can get at least a little over $1K for my own used projector to use to buy an upgrade, but I cannot justify over $3K. Perhaps a Mitsubishi 5000 or JVC DLA-RS1 will be my next projector but I will have to wait until 2008.... :cool:

Why has it gone up. Do you think that it will go back down after Christmas?


Have you tried calling Jason, of AVS, to check on the price? You should take with a grain of salt what you read on this forum.

You should really call Jason at AVS. The Mits 5000 is slated to come in this week and I have one on order.

CPC: I think if you stretch your budget a tiny bit, you should be able to get the Mits.

No idea. Perhaps it will come down. Buying within the US or Canada is pretty attractive now though. Not much difference in price. Warranty varies depending on source and using your credit card can potentially give you more warranty depending on your credit card. Anyhow, who knows why it's gone up. Come to think of it, I have never seen something come out at one price and then go up in price.

Unfortunately, it is waaayyy out of my league. I have been dreaming thinking I can afford a $5K projector. I am afraid $2K is my neighbourhood. I am willing to stretch to $3K now, especially considering that I can get at least a little over $1K for my own used projector to use to buy an upgrade, but I cannot justify over $3K. Perhaps a Mitsubishi 5000 or JVC DLA-RS1 will be my next projector but I will have to wait until 2008.... :cool:

If you search diligently and call all dealers on the Mitsu Online Authorized List you will get one for around that price shipped to you directly from Mitsu USA. Just got mine yesterday, very excited, finished mounting it, now time to calibrate.

I am not violating policies as i did not post price.

Call Jason @ AVS and get their price... you won't be disapointed... it was little better than I had calculated, being that it's still a "preorder" type item, not staying in stock.

I hate you bobpaule. :) I am still waiting for mine.

I was talking about the price for an imported projector having gone up higher recently. I have never seen that before. It is good for the domestic sellers because there is not much incentive to buy outside north america at these prices. I cannot afford anything at the moment. If and when I do buy something, it is very likely I will check with domestic North American sources like AVS or other USA and Canada retailers.

To the lucky owners: please post some screenshots of HD DVD on the Mitsu! :)

Regarding the mentioned firmware update for PAL 2:2 deinterlacing, Cine4Home has posted some test results: http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/MitsubishiHC5000/HC5000UpdateTest.htm

Apparently you have to open the projector to perform the update so it isn't a DIY job if you don't want to lose your warranty. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Hmmm, I have serial number above 1440, so apparantly I already have this update. But my Denon dvd 1920 won't give interlaced trough the HDMI, so I haven't tried it yet. I understand that the HC5000 does a better job with the signal than my Denon 1920 or even more expensive dvd player does - but I'm stuck with 576p output for now. But really, I don't care. I really can't understand how the picture actually can look any better than this on SD DVD's. The HC5000 is that good. It really is.

I was talking about the price for an imported projector having gone up higher recently. I have never seen that before. It is good for the domestic sellers because there is not much incentive to buy outside north america at these prices. I cannot afford anything at the moment. If and when I do buy something, it is very likely I will check with domestic North American sources like AVS or other USA and Canada retailers.

It's probably due to the exchange rate. The dollar lost 20% of its value against the Euro in just 1 year.

Fleaman

It's probably due to the exchange rate. The dollar lost 20% of its value against the Euro in just 1 year.

Fleaman

In one year maybe, but nothing has happened this month. The price change was within a few a weeks or a few days, so I am not sure it co-incides with any changes in currency value of late.

I hate you bobpaule. :) I am still waiting for mine.

Yours is coming too. My internet dealer ordered it shipped to my door from Mitsu.

Oh boy, my back still hurts from mounting this beast. Had to drill new holes in my "hanging upside down coffee table" projector mount and reinforce the anchor, not to mention trip to Lowe's for M4 mounting screws. Setup is a breeze, you just sit and play with the remote, all motorized shifts, zoom, and focus. Menus very intuitive, but this maibe because i am now on my second PJ.

Love it, absolutely love it. What a mouse of a PJ, twice the size of the Z3 yet so quiet. Not as aesthetically refined though, unless you always look at it from the front. But who cares, i'm blown away.

Coming from Sanyo PLV-Z3, the most striking difference is in data projection, my IL2 WW2 sim kill ratios will rise exponentially. The little dot above the tree line is now a plane, i can tell its markings, and see targets waaay ahead.

The next big one is how nicely my SD DVD upconversions look. Selling my HD Leeza scaler too.

Third, Training Day gets a whole new meaning, dynamic iris does wonders with the play of shades in dark scenes. Tomorrow i am off for a landing on planet Crematoria with Riddick in chains. I am already salivating thinking of how fantastic the sunrises will look. I am moving to the basement for a while :)

On Dish AnimaniaHD they have this Captain Scarlet sci-fi fantasy in true 1080i, i never watched cartoons before, but my 3 year old running behind the sofa screaming "daddy, daddy, airplane coming" made me look at it, and boy is it beautiful. You can almost imagine yourself there, such is the detail and depth.
I am in heaven folks, now if i can just get some sleep :)

On a negative note, the Mitsu makes me see what a crummy job Dish does with HDLite quasi 1080i programming on some of the the VOOM channels.

Disclaimer, i'm no expert, i listen a lot to you guys, and read cine4home and projectorcentral,and projectorreview.

Now, who will start the "Mitsu HC5000 buyer's remorse thread"? :))

Espon is also going to release TW1000 which has a higher lumen and contrast rating.


And is streeting in Japan for significantly less than the Panasonic or Mitsubishi!

To answer my own question on how to find out what firmware version your HC5000 has:

In the menu, pick Feature -> Menu position. Then press Aoto position, enter, auto position.
You are now in the service menu which will show SW version. 2.0 here means you have an old firmware. 3.0 is the latest one.

To answer my own question on how to find out what firmware version your HC5000 has:

In the menu, pick Feature -> Menu position. Then press Aoto position, enter, auto position.
You are now in the service menu which will show SW version. 2.0 here means you have an old firmware. 3.0 is the latest one.

Hi Zippo.
How do I get the latest firmware here in Europe?
Thank you
Paolo

Love it, absolutely love it. What a mouse of a PJ, twice the size of the Z3 yet so quiet. Not as aesthetically refined though, unless you always look at it from the front. But who cares, i'm blown away.

Third, Training Day gets a whole new meaning, dynamic iris does wonders with the play of shades in dark scenes.
Bob,
Can you notice any iris action, the "breathing/pumping" that some folks have talked about with pjs using the DI?

Bob,
Can you notice any iris action, the "breathing/pumping" that some folks have talked about with pjs using the DI?

No, not noticeable, i use AutoIris 1 setting, can tell the result as in one of the night scenes in Training Day HDDVD there is a bright light in one corner and i can now discern objects in the shadows at the opposite corner. Obviously 10000 (had 2000 on Z3) contrast ratio helps, but it is the iris making such lighting extremes possible.

Pumping you can hear on the electric zoom/lens shift only. I have a Tragus laptop cooler under my Dish 622 and that is the loudest thing in my system (soon to be replaced by PCPowercooling fans on an old cellphone charger.

Thanks, Bob.

Any thoughts on black levels compared to your Z3 (did you put them side by side?). I'm coming from a Panasonic 500, so similar to the upgrade you made.

Thanks, Bob.

Any thoughts on black levels compared to your Z3 (did you put them side by side?). I'm coming from a Panasonic 500, so similar to the upgrade you made.

No, not side by side, but the one thing is that i can see more detail in dark scenes, likely due to 5x better contrast ratio.

Can somone post some screens of the Mits in action please :)

ninja.rogue: if you need to upgrade from 2.0 to 3.0 firmware you need to go through Mitsubishi. In Sweden, this upgrade can't even be done locally but must be send to the technicians in Japan. The reason for this is that this specific upgrade contains a part where they upgrade not only the actual firmware of the projector but the HQV chip (AFAIK).

So if you have european warranty then just contact your local Mitsubishi service center.

Thanks, Bob.

Any thoughts on black levels compared to your Z3 (did you put them side by side?). I'm coming from a Panasonic 500, so similar to the upgrade you made.

I'm actually converting over from a Z3, so I'd like to hear too!

I'm actually converting over from a Z3, so I'd like to hear too!


Right now i am looking at this screen while i type on the wireless keyboard. I dunno if you used the Z3 for data, i did a lot. Majorly blacker levels, i can see pure black at the bottom fading up to the dark blue towards the top on this reply screen, whereas the margins looked all black on the Z3. The clarity of the print is another new level, forget the double shadows on printed text through VGA that we saw on the Z3.

To answer my own question on how to find out what firmware version your HC5000 has:

In the menu, pick Feature -> Menu position. Then press Aoto position, enter, auto position.
You are now in the service menu which will show SW version. 2.0 here means you have an old firmware. 3.0 is the latest one.

Thx man US model serial 000135x, have "Software Version 3.0". I now breathe relief, the AVS induced OCD is getting to me slowly but surely. Was it the next stage of the disease,
after upgraditis?

Thanks for the info bobpaule!

My drug dealer, err, AVS sales guy, said it would be next week before the next shipment gets in, "or thereabouts".

Another user confirms 1080p via VGA, but it seems you need to change signal input setting manually:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9120276&&#post9120276

A bug?

Another validatory review, hopefully i'm not redundant:

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/hc5000.html

I have a question: my RCA HDV5000 sends out 1080i to my Mits HC3000 projector so if I get a Mits HC5000 will it take the 1080i and convert it to 1080p?

Pretty sure it will, Fremont!

I have a question: my RCA HDV5000 sends out 1080i to my Mits HC3000 projector so if I get a Mits HC5000 will it take the 1080i and convert it to 1080p?

Yes Sure!!
Also with mine Marantz Dv9600 I drive the Dvd player to 1080i, then the Mitsu HC5000 make the deinterlacer Work @1080p :cool:

walk on
sasadf

Preety sure it will, Fremont!


Hey, Dave: Did I see you at Amir's and Kevin's show in SF?

Dave and SaSa: Thanks!

Jeez, I just got my Mits HC3000 in August and although I really love it, after seeing 1080p at Microsoft's HD-DVD show in SF, I'm lusting for the Mits HC5000... :p

Yes Sure!!
Also with mine Marantz Dv9600 I drive the Dvd player to 1080i, then the Mitsu HC5000 make the deinterlacer Work @1080p :cool:

walk on
sasadf

I don't know the Marantz DV9600, but I've read that the HC5000 har a very good scaler. And from what I've seen myself it seems very good. Is the picture much better when the Marantz is doing the scaling to 1080i? Or about the same if you use 576i?

I have a Denon dvd 1920, which for certain isn't a high end model, and the HC5000 does a better job in my eyes when feeded a 576 signal from the player - even though the denon also can scale to 1080i. But then again - my denon isn't the most expensive player out there.

Hiya Fremont!
I got called into work and couldn't make it! :(
I too have a sorta new hc3000 (which I love, btw...!) but MAN! this thread has me jonesing!

:)

Hiya Fremont!
I got called into work and couldn't make it! :(
I too have a sorta new hc3000 (which I love, btw...!) but MAN! this thread has me jonesing!

:)


Bummer, Dave. You missed a great show!

I just received my Mitsu 5000 this weekend, and although my setup is very limited right now I have have some interesting early impressions.

See my thread in this forum "former CRT owner" for details

Brian

Is there any technical differences between the US and EU versions? Besides the case color of course lol. Thanks

After talking to Mitsu Tech Support, I know there are some minor difference in the firmware, as far as PAL support and other matters.

I think the two versions are about 99% the same, including the core optics and LCD engine.

Brian

....the first preview of mine MITSU HC 5000 from the famous "MAGISTER" Andrea MAnuti (one of the enveloper of the also famous COlorfacts software), at his Site

www.htprojectors.com

Soon the first view also in English

http://www.htprojectors.com/indexITA.asp


walk on
sasadf

This thread looks quiet now, but I know at one point many were looking for the HC5000BL and they are still on back order many places. Well, I have a brand new one in unopened box I am going to put on CraigsList or Ebay if no one here wants it. I will sell it for what I paid, Dealer Cost + shipping, which I will share with you if you pm me. It is about a grand or more less than MSRP though.....I have this because I had intended to do a side by side test with the Epson EMP-tw700 / ProCinema 810 but have just run out of time and grown comfortable sticking with 720p for the next year or two.

pm me if you are interested. I have a perfect eBay rating, but figured some folks here might want to deal direct...

Has anybody tried how well the HC5000 deinterlaces 1080/50i signals, like Sky HD broadcastings?

with the new Firmware 3.0 quite well! ;)

walk on
sasadf

I got my HC5000 last week from AVS, thank you so much Jason!

Previously I'd been watching things on pj screen with a data projector. PLC-XU50A only 1024x768 but 2000 lumens. It did the job admirably for gaming (most games when I bought it were still 4:3), but with the Xbox 360 and WII and games of the last few years pushing widescreen, and adding in the switch to HD-DVD via HD-A1 + Xbox 360 Addon on 360/HTPC I decided it was time to upgrade.

I'd also been using a Westinghouse 37" 1080P screen (LVM-37W1) and could tell that I needed the upgrade in resolution soon.

I put my preorder in back in November but alas the Winter shipping gods put a delay of game til the first week of January. But then, AVS delivered :D

When I set it up I was in between World of Warcraft battleground q's. When I finally fired it up I was immediately impressed with how much easier the setup was compared to my old Sanyo, which with no lens shift and as a standard 90/10 screen projection had 2 optimal lines basically it could sit on that were perfectly perpendicular to the permanent wall screen. What a difference lens shift makes :)

I just put it on a shelf on the back wall, ran the connection cables, and put a dvd case between it and the wall to make sure it was perpendicular to the screen. Lined the lens up fairly close to the vertical alignment of the older Sanyo projector hanging from the ceiling a bit in front and above the HC5000. Then fired it up.

I stuck my head near the screen and began using the green alignment grid. What a difference remote control powered lens shift + zoom + focus makes!!!!!

I had to go back and forth between setup and Arathi Basin heh.

But I eventually got it up and running the way I wanted and proceeded to do some screen tests. I popped Sahara HD-DVD in.

:eek: !WOW! :eek:

Color so beautiful. Contrast improved ridiculously (vs 400:1 for Sanyo, granted I've not calibrated the Mits yet, still waiting for DVE on HD-DVD) and screen door effect, GONE as expected woot!

THANK YOU MITSUBISHI, AVS (Jason especially) AND AVSFORUM!

I pity my poor old Sanyo presentation projector but will now use it as my portable gaming projector.

What a difference a few years makes in technology. I think maybe I should force myself to upgrade every 3 years :p

Glad to hear your good experience!

I'm on the waiting list with Jason for this projector, I'm hoping he'll deliver a present to me soon :)

Blippy 2005; I was wondering if you could check the firmware rev of your projector, as well as the first two digits of the serial number?

I'm trying to figure out if the U.S. versions (black case) have been updated with the newest firmware.

As of last week both local Mitsubishi dealers only had units with firmware 2.0, the horizontal banding problem, and serial numbers below 2000.

Thanks! ;)
Brian

Briandx:

Yes I just checked it is SW Firmware 3.00, although it is in the 15xx serial number range.

I've also tried to find horizontal and vertical banding. At least with 1080P material I have been unable to find any banding.

I tested at both 1920x1080x60P and 1920x1080x23.97P

I used two different dithered patterns (one 50% grey the other a sloped pink), also used the standard all black, red, green, blue, white (using photoshop RGB values)

No banding that I can see.

However I did find one stuck on green pixel (which is not noticeable at any distance greater than 4 feet from the screen at least to me with glasses on). I also was able to distinguish what I'm guessing to be some sort of reflection of something internal to the projector. I only see it on full black and it's about the size of a 3.5 inch diameter circle. It is not noticeable at all during anything, the only reason I found it was it was less than 2 inches from my single stuck on green pixel. At any distance greater than 8 feet I couldn't distinguish it. If you were to divide the screen down the center vertically into two boxes. It would be around the area of the center of the left side box, but slightly offset down and right from this spot. Hope that makes sense. I tried to find it in a lot of still images (from digital cameras) and on videos and am unable to find it. It is BARELY visible, I don't encourage people to look for it. Tried to take a digital photo of it but it doesn't come out. As I said it's only visible if at all on straight black background and only if you're really really looking for it.

But all the same if you happen to find it, you'd convince me that I'm not crazy and that it is really there. Cause I spent at least a few minutes trying to convince myself that it really was there and not a reflection of something else in the room. I eliminated all other light sources though and blocked even all the LED's from components in the room. Actually now I'm wondering if it is a reflection of the lens itself on the screen. My screen isn't that great, it's only a Da-Lite permwall LCD hi-contrast grey 4:3 120". I know it's the WRONG screen to use. But I bought it originally for use with a Sanyo PLC-XU50A data/presentation projector which is 4:3 and it worked well with that for gaming/video. And I still use that older projector with that screen for 4:3 low-res material. I use the top 2/3 for the Mitsubishi HC5000 and it looks acceptable enough to me not to spend another $750-$1500 buying a new screen. Especially since I may be moving in the next few months. Which is why I didn't go for the JVC RS1, I needed something light and easy to move, of all the 1080P projectors the Mitsubishi is definitely the lightest I've found. All things considered now I'm very happy with the Mitsubishi HC5000. If I didn't have moving plans this year and didn't like to do so much portable gaming, (I take my projectors out of town for gaming sessions occasionally) I'd probably have bought the JVC from AVS instead.

Actually the only peeve I have with the HC5000 is why they decided that they have to set the overscan to 97% by default =P. When I first got it I was sitting there wondering what I was doing wrong with my computer/resolution/refresh settings since it was cutting off the outer edge of the screen. Then I found the overscan setting in the menu and changed it to 100% so the computer output fit perfectly.

I also was able to distinguish what I'm guessing to be some sort of reflection of something internal to the projector. I only see it on full black and it's about the size of a 3.5 inch diameter circle.If it's made of only single color, it's most likely a dust blob.

If it's made of only single color, it's most likely a dust blob.

Aren't the LCD panels fully enclosed in a dust-free container of sorts?...

-THTS

Aren't the LCD panels fully enclosed in a dust-free container of sorts?...Yes, but that doesn't seem to work so well because I've got several blobs in both of the units I've had. My second unit had zero blobs when I got it, now it has 4-5, of which one is severe. Luckily I'm getting a third unit.

Maybe some dust gets in the compartment before it's sealed, ie. lousy QC. What's interesting that in both units that I've had, the amount of dust blobs has increased with time. Reason for this might be that the sealed compartment has dust in other walls and air movement moves them to the panels. Green panel seems to get almost all blobs.

Sanyo's way to offer air pumps etc. seems to be the best/only way to get dust free LCD for now.

It's year 2007 and still one dust blob can make a projector pretty much useless, not very convincing development. :(

Does it accept a 1080p signal with a 48Hz refresh rate?

If it's made of only single color, it's most likely a dust blob.

That's the thing it's not really a color. When it's fed a full black image. It actually looks like two concentric circles. The top one a tiny bit brighter than the bottom which is a tiny bit brighter than the full black background (which is really a very very dim grey). It does not affect any other image/video playback as far as I can tell. I cannot notice it at all looking for it with even slightly lighter image. That's why I think it's a trace reflection of something internal. Shrug.

Blippy, can you take a photo of that?

Blippy, can you take a photo of that?

Doubtful. It's so dim. I don't think my camera would pick it up. I'll try tonight though.

This is a Da-Lite Permwall with high contrast grey vinyl. Originally used with a Sanyo PLC-XU50A data/presentation projector for gaming and movies. Haven't decided to upgrade screens yet as I still watch a lot of 4:3 material (anime, tv shows).

updated ok took some photos. camera's not so good in the dark I think it's picking up fake bright spots here and there. There's only 1 stuck on green pixel which actually is not visable and neither is the artifact that I mentioned. The camera doesn't pick it up.

In the picture below if there was a 4th icon forming a plus sign with the other three icons (IE, Control knob, WoW icon + imagine an icon on the right) the circle would be right on the intersection (roughly a little smaller than a CD) Ignore the bright dots as those are camera artifacts I think from dust reflections? Or something on the camera lens at the time.

http://triumvirate.dyndns.org/brightwind/ver2/1.jpg

As you can see it doesn't detract from the image when there's something there.

http://triumvirate.dyndns.org/brightwind/ver2/2.jpg

Nothing visible as an artifact here. The image looks wonderful. Lot better than my old Sanyo PLC.

http://triumvirate.dyndns.org/brightwind/ver2/6.jpg

No noticeable banding at all that I can see.

http://triumvirate.dyndns.org/brightwind/ver2/8.jpg

http://triumvirate.dyndns.org/brightwind/ver2/10.jpg
http://triumvirate.dyndns.org/brightwind/ver2/11.jpg

Moved the camera closer to try and pick up the artifact and the single stuck on green pixel. No luck, again all the bright dots are not actually present in the real image on the screen. They appear to be dust specs in the air or on camera lens. Trust me there is only 1 stuck on green pixel and not illuminated dots everywhere.

But the artifact is simply too dim for the camera to pick up as is the stuck pixel.
This distance is roughly 3 feet from camera to screen all the other pics are roughly 10 feet from screen.
http://triumvirate.dyndns.org/brightwind/ver2/14.jpg

One last pic.

Yum...

http://triumvirate.dyndns.org/brightwind/ver2/15.jpg

Nice shots. I think I'm gonna order me some sushi! :D

Well, these eyes can't see anything of concern in those pictures!

I just did, arrives in 4 days !! YAHOO

Wow, this projector is surprising...

1) S H A R P sharp sharp!
2) Quiet, very quiet, even on bright mode. Hard to hear at all on normal mode.
3) Offers great inputs that just work.XBOX HD-DVD on VGA works perfect at 1080P,
PS3 at 1080P on HDMI, HDTV on component, and a PC DVI input left over thats easy to convert to HDMI if needed. Just Plug and Play.
4) Full rich colors. This LCD tech is coming a long.
5) Nice size and weight, easy to install right side up on table top, or shelf with lens shift.
6) Handy remote with backlight
7) Motorized zoom, lens shift and focus all from remote.
Works great with 2 modes fine tune or normal.

The engineers at Mits have come up with a nice product at a value price.

Some other technologies do have darker blacks, but I'm not aware of another 1080p projector that offers all the positive things listed near this price :)

If you've never had a projector or are thinking of moving to 1080p without mortgaging the house, this one deserves a good look.

You guys are making me sick :( I'm still on the pre-order list at AVS.

I'm hearing there's a batch coming next week, however no idea on size of the batch.

You'll enjoy it!

Only weakness is the black level on dark movies could be darker a grey screen would help, but for HD Football, Hockey and gaming, and movies with normal brightness the image is amazing.

I just cant understand why other makers cant offer the SILENCE that this unit offers. You cant hear the fan.

Ya I love how quiet it is. It's a huge step up from my old Sanyo presentation projector. Ridiculously easy to setup with remote control power zoom/focus/lens-shift. Much better color, contrast, resolution than old PLC-XU50A.

As I said the only thing I was annoyed with was the default shipping with 97% overscan. Which is an easy fix by changing it to 100% (for 1:1 pixel map).

Ok I changed my opinion about the faintly lighter circle. It was definitely noticeable during Superman Returns HD-DVD during the darker scenes. Now I guess the question is can I live with it. I wonder now if it isn't a dust blob? Anyone know of where we can get these inspected and have dust blobs removed? I'm hoping it's something easily fixable.

Firstly, I am very sorry to here about blippys dust blob problem with his hc5000.

Secondly, I dont understand why there is not much user feedback on this forum for what seems to be a solid, brilliantly priced 1080p pj?

I really want to buy one, but am yet convinced to buy, as it seems that the majority of users of this forum are avoiding it, I dont understand why, this pj is a bargain (even more so, if you buy from j...n)

Anyone want to chime in?

Secondly, I dont understand why there is not much user feedback on this forum for what seems to be a solid, brilliantly priced 1080p pj?I believe one of the main reasons is that this is mainly a US forum and in US there is some serious competition in almost the same price class (Pearl, Panny, JVC). For example in here Mitsu is priced considerably lower than the main competition listed previously making the price one of its biggest contributes. The Epson seems to be quite close in price but it's coming in February or so.

I really want to buy one, but am yet convinced to buy, as it seems that the majority of users of this forum are avoiding it, I dont understand why, this pj is a bargain (even more so, if you buy from j...n)

Anyone want to chime in?

The one I tried was near perfect, no dust, no stuck pixels, no banding.

Just rock solid, silent and sharp edge to edge, plug and play 1080p with everything I tried. It was a recent Japan model, maybe Mits has worked out early production issues.

I highly recommend anyone to consider the HC5000 if your on a budget and plan to do 1080P gaming on it. Just get a gray screen to help with the blacks if you watch darker movies often, as thats the weakness of LCD tech.

Most important with any projector, be sure to either buy from somewhere that offers a return policy, or demo and compare the projector to others. Everyone seems to have different opinion about how an image looks, and its not until you get it home and installed in a quiet dark room that you can really get feel for if its right for you.

Firstly, I am very sorry to here about blippys dust blob problem with his hc5000.

Secondly, I dont understand why there is not much user feedback on this forum for what seems to be a solid, brilliantly priced 1080p pj?

I really want to buy one, but am yet convinced to buy, as it seems that the majority of users of this forum are avoiding it, I dont understand why, this pj is a bargain (even more so, if you buy from j...n)

Anyone want to chime in?

Avoiding it? Love mine, worked well from day one. Superb PQ, love its gaming via VGA capabilities, awesome 480i upscaling of DVDs.

What is not to like about it. Glass sealed large diameter lens optics unlike the rest, Reon-VX processor, quietest PJ out there, aesthetically very pleasing, HDDVDs and BDs look fantastic. I love the way it takes care of the judder in TNT-HD via Dish, for some reason all my earlier displays had a jaggies issue with fast objects such as spinning rotor blades, not on this one.

A keeper, a solid machine. As for the low lumens i have a bat cave basement theater with bright walls, so this minimizes light spillage to a great extent. And oh sure, the bright sun or occasional searchlight beam in your face will make you blink every time, it is that bright. I think i made a very good choice.

I agree with what is being said, I switched mine on for the first time tonight on a magnolia painted wall just to check picture and pixel integrity and this thing is bloomin marvellous.

No dead pixels, image sharpness by the bucketload edge to edge, and a picture that was not what i am used to with LCD. The image was pin sharp but very smooth too.

Loving it.

Has a nice video processor as well. 1080i looks great on it.

Darn thing is all but perfect, sharp, silent, lots of 1080p inputs, but and always a but...
the black level is rather high if your used to DLP. At least on a High Power screen it was.

Maybe the Mits on a grey screen or even a grey painted wall would improve by making the blacks darker I wish I had tried that, as its silence and sharpness is very hard to find in any other projector.

I hope Mits offers a 1080P DLP system with the same silence, sharp lens and video processing, and vertical shift it would be perfect!

Mine is projecting onto a Stewart Firehawk and it's a great match for the Mits. It's pretty pricey but a similar gray screen is the call for this PJ IMO. I would think that too high of a gain might detract from the sharpness and of course the black levels.

When I think back to when I bought my Cinema 500 as an early adopter I paid almost $5k and to get this for that price is a steal comparatively.

I'm also really happy with the PQ of SD-DVD's when sent at 480i over HDMI to the Mits.

Mine is projecting onto a Stewart Firehawk and it's a great match for the Mits. It's pretty pricey but a similar gray screen is the call for this PJ IMO. I would think that too high of a gain might detract from the sharpness and of course the black levels.

When I think back to when I bought my Cinema 500 as an early adopter I paid almost $5k and to get this for that price is a steal comparatively.

I'm also really happy with the PQ of SD-DVD's when sent at 480i over HDMI to the Mits.

I already had a screen before the PJ, it's a matt white 1.2 gain Beamax screen. People say grey is better but this one will be absolutely fine foo. What do you think?

I'll try with my matte white screen sometime, but my gut feeling right now is that I prefer the grey screen for the darker black and the projector is bright enough that I don't need the extra lum's from a white screen.

Be interested to hear how that turns out, the more I look at other projectors the more I see what a value this one is, if you like plug and play 1080P inputs and sharpness.

If a grey screen or even a matte white can help with blacks in dark movie scenes that would be great. A High Power is not suggested, IMO.

Every projector has some weak points:

Pearl - softer image, no user convergence
1080P DLP - long throw, costly, louder fans
Mits - blacks are lacking, some lime green seen

Personally so far I like DLP the best, the Sharpness is perfect and contrast is just right.
But I'd put the Mits 2nd, if someone can find a screen or paint to get decent blacks, then its a runner for 1st given its low price point.

Are you folks using low lamp mode exclusively in a light controlled HT?

sorry for a noob question planning to do my basement/HT room fully light control will be using screen research clearpix 2 perf screen with 0.95 gain. cannot decide if should go to pt-ae1000u or the mit hc5000 want to have 120inch diagonal screen distance available screen to back 20 feet. thanks for all your feedback

I just git mine in today. It is white and the bottom is a dark blue.All the pictures I see it looks back.It also says hc5000u.Is there a difference?

Thanks

Sandman,

You could also throw in the Epson TW1000 into the mix. Personally I think you would find the Panasonic AE1000 soft looking vs the other two, but that's just a guess.

DEbassin,

You must have an import. iirc domestic HC 5000 in North America are all black.

You must have an import. iirc domestic HC 5000 in North America are all black.
I think it is I got it off ebay. Is there a difference?

from Which country you came from?!?!

HC5000u

usually the "U" final indicates an evolution in the project!

Like the Epson "tw200" and the next "TW200H"

walk on
sasadf

What's the best way to determine convergence on this projector.

I am waiting on Digital Video Essentials to be released in HD so I only have the SD version.

Would that still be ok to use to check for convergence issues or do I need a 1920x1080 test pattern?

I have a number of 1080P images to test here, including a few convergence test patterns
http://www.pbase.com/jackcnd/1080p_tests

Be sure to display at full size, see link under image.

If you have any questions just ask.

I have a number of 1080P images to test here, including a few convergence test patterns
http://www.pbase.com/jackcnd/1080p_tests

Be sure to display at full size, see link under image.

If you have any questions just ask.

Thanks Jack, presumably I would need to connect my projector up to my laptop or PC? Would I have to change the screen resolution on the PC or laptop?

My laptop only has vga out, but my PC has DVI. Apologies for being a bit stupid, but very new to this game.

Thanks

I think it is I got it off ebay. Is there a difference?

I don't recall any differences other than the colour of the case.

Are you folks using low lamp mode exclusively in a light controlled HT?

Yes and it's more than ample IMO.

I don't recall any differences other than the colour of the case.

The white one is the "default " European model whereas in North America black is the default and you can special order the white.

Thanks Jack, presumably I would need to connect my projector up to my laptop or PC? Would I have to change the screen resolution on the PC or laptop?

My laptop only has vga out, but my PC has DVI. Apologies for being a bit stupid, but very new to this game.

Thanks

Yes, you need a PC connected at 1920x1080 60Hz to test, or a PS3 at 1080P with those patterns.

A laptop with VGA out can work but only if it supports 1080p over VGA most laptops dont, if it does then you need to get it synced right too, but the mits is good with that.

The latest issue of The Perfect Vision (Issue 75) gave the Mits HC5000 an excellent review. :)

Yes, you need a PC connected at 1920x1080 60Hz to test, or a PS3 at 1080P with those patterns.

A laptop with VGA out can work but only if it supports 1080p over VGA most laptops dont, if it does then you need to get it synced right too, but the mits is good with that.


My graphics card supports 1920x1080 at 120 Hz or 100hz. Nothing at 60Hz sadly.

Anything I can do?

Much appreciated

if it supports those it supports 60Hz too, those are maximums.
Just set the refresh to 60Hz in Display properties under monitor.

Are you folks using low lamp mode exclusively in a light controlled HT?

I use standard lamp mode, but with a 1.0 gain grey screen. That gives me rather good black levels, but still a good "punch" in the picture I think.

How do you find the 1.0 grey screen?

I tried the HC5000 with a High Power and the blacks were too bright, they looked almost white in fact, I could see the screen if that makes sense? I also wished the projector could offer less light than it did even in low mode as that would help with the blacks.

Other than that the projector was perfect, great processor and sharp as a tack, but the black issue on darker scenes was really frustrating coming from DLP.

Be interested in hear how it looks on the 1.0 grey screen, if I can find a decent screen for the projector, its the 1080p of choice, until the RS1s are heard from...

I'm also wondering about screen gain. I have the High Contrast Cinema Vision gray screen with a 1.1 gain. I currently have a Benq 8700+ DLP projector and am looking at going 1080p. Everything I've read about the Mitsubishi sounds great, except for the black level compared to the DLP Benq W10000.

I have three issues with the Benq that I'm looking to fix:

1) 720p only. I'm a feature whore, I guess.
2) Noise. The 8700 is not very quiet at all. Projector is directly overhead.
3) HDCP. I get a log of "HDMI ERROR 1" on my HD-A1 HD-DVD player.

I'm hoping that my gray screen will help the black level for the HC5000. My room is 100% light-controlled, so I should be able to run in low-lamp mode and still get pop from the projector. Will the low-lamp mode and gray screen yield blacks, or will it be a dark gray for black?

How do you find the 1.0 grey screen?

I tried the HC5000 with a High Power and the blacks were too bright, they looked almost white in fact, I could see the screen if that makes sense? I also wished the projector could offer less light than it did even in low mode as that would help with the blacks.

Other than that the projector was perfect, great processor and sharp as a tack, but the black issue on darker scenes was really frustrating coming from DLP.

Be interested in hear how it looks on the 1.0 grey screen, if I can find a decent screen for the projector, its the 1080p of choice, until the RS1s are heard from...

That's odd. I'm using my HC5000 with a Da-Lite HP screen at 160" diagonal.

I have it on Standard Lamp Mode and calibrated it with Avia and it looks great.

Sure the blacks aren't as black as high end DLP but they are really good, and when you combine it with the great resolution and good processing it's a winner.

Maybe your HC5000 had a problem ?

Wow 160" diagonal!

I was using a 92" diagonal from about 11.5' to the HP could be the difference?

It's all a matter of taste I guess, as I've said other than the blacks the Mits was very impressive.

Wow 160" diagonal!

I was using a 92" diagonal from about 11.5' to the HP could be the difference?

It's all a matter of taste I guess, as I've said other than the blacks the Mits was very impressive.

Yea maybe the size is the difference ?

LCD technology is what it is , contrast will probably always suffer somewhat.

How do you find the 1.0 grey screen?

I tried the HC5000 with a High Power and the blacks were too bright, they looked almost white in fact, I could see the screen if that makes sense? I also wished the projector could offer less light than it did even in low mode as that would help with the blacks.

Other than that the projector was perfect, great processor and sharp as a tack, but the black issue on darker scenes was really frustrating coming from DLP.

Be interested in hear how it looks on the 1.0 grey screen, if I can find a decent screen for the projector, its the 1080p of choice, until the RS1s are heard from...

I think the blacks are rather good on my HC5000...

Anyway, my 1.0 gain grey screen comes from a Norwegian manufacturer - http://dreamscreen.no/produkter-rammev2.htm
and I ordered from http://www.avshop.no/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22_148_149&products_id=1306

It's the screen called Dream Screen DynaGrey V2 Wide Frame. Unfortuneately both pages are in Norwegian so I guess that won't help you much.

Wow 160" diagonal!

I was using a 92" diagonal from about 11.5' to the HP could be the difference?

It's all a matter of taste I guess, as I've said other than the blacks the Mits was very impressive.


You might want to try a neutral density filter. Your 92" HP screen might be too small and consequently it's too bright and killing your blacks.

if it supports those it supports 60Hz too, those are maximums.
Just set the refresh to 60Hz in Display properties under monitor.


Hi Jack, I thought I would post my results from your test patterns. I don't know what to make of the results but perhaps you can advise.

Horizontal Conv - Blue and red baars touch when zoomed in. There is a gap between the red and green and green and blue bars. The green bar does not appear to be inline with the rest.

Black screen test - There is a visible and rather large green blob (haze) about 3" big on a 4 ft screen and about 3" wide at the bottom of the screen. It's in the 4th box on the hatch pattern on the mitsi. It increases in size when you zoom out.

Textfocusconv - The white text is not sharp, neither is the green. There is a row of green pixels above the white text and a row of purple pixels below the white text. The gree text looks hazy.

Conv1080p - Green box in middle appears to be one pixel away from the bottom blue box. There is a space between them on zoom. The green line at the top of this box is coloured orange as this has seeped into the red box.

Crosshatch pattern (not yours found a different one) - On every white line there is a magenta line and a green line. This occurs on the vertical and horizontal planes although I am sure it is a full pixel on the horizontal for both colours and 1/2 pixel on the vertical.

Not too impressed with this projector's performance in this regard. When I got it I wondered how it wasn't as sharp as I thought it would be. Would this be the answer?

When it was delivered the driver asked my other half to sign as delivered damaged. He claimed it was but we couldn't see any damage. I will be able to replace without a problem.

I take it this needs replaced?

Thanks

Sounds like you have dust somewhere making the blob.

The other things mentioned are misconvergence, all 3-LCD type projectors will have some. Some more than others.

You would have to go to a direct view LCD TV or DLP projector to eliminate it. DLP also solves the dust problem as the optics are fully sealed, and since the mirrors move any dust would just drop off.

The Mits I had was clean from dust, and the convergence was not perfect but the displayed images looked as sharp as a DLP with the nice processor it has.

Just in case, make sure you have the MIts set to NOT overscan, its defaults to 97% you need to set it to 100% for crisp text.
The green text should be very sharp as it is only using one panel.
Check your focus too, maybe the lens got knocked around?

Also dont use horizontal shift, use it to get the sharpest image then move the projector. I found using horizontal shift too much made a real mess of the corner sharpness, but then I found the optimal position and it was sharp edge to edge.

Thanks Jack 100% overscan it is.

The shop I purchased it from will phone Mitsubishi first thing Monday morning and it looks like a straight swap. However, he says that sometimes a machine that is sent to the engineers for repair often comes back in better condition than it did leaving the factory.

I think I want a new one first then if that's rubbish I will ask the engineers in the UK to look at it properly. The chap in the shop is actually going to ask Mitsubishi if the engineers can have a look at the convergence before it is shipped to me. Hopefully they will do it then I have piece of mind.

I don't mind half a pixel misconvergence, but 2.5 is pretty poor.

Thanks

Stu

Have any of you guys had problems with yours?
I turned my on to try it out and every thing seemed ok.
Bought a ceiling mount. Installed it and now I have 2 lights flickering back and forth green and red. I went to the manualand it says send it to a dealer.
Anybody elese have this problem?

Ultimate AV review has been posted. The reviewer is not liking the auto iris.

And it's not the only one....

THe big issues of this VPR are:

1) bloopers(dust :) )
2) Auto Iris, poor and very slow movements
3) Not an excellent Optic (chromatic aberration)

walk on
sasadf

Ultimate AV review has been posted. The reviewer is not liking the auto iris.


http://ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/107mits5000/

Neither did the reviewer on The Perfect Vision. He left the iris in the open position. The other shortcomings were mediocre shadow detail and low peak white level. Nonetheless, he reported that the projector is superb for detail, color and black level.

And it's not the only one....

THe big issues of this VPR are:

1) bloopers(dust :) )
2) Auto Iris, poor and very slow movements
3) Not an excellent Optic (chromatic aberration) And while we're at it, I think it's too noisy and the processing doesn't quite live up to my standards. :)

too noisy?!?!?! O__o!!!
IT'S THE QUIETEST!!!!!


walk on
sasadf

IT'S THE QUIETEST!!!!!Yes it is, but I still consider it too noisy. ;)

Then, and so you CAN'T BUY any VPR!!!

walk on
sasadf

The Mits I used had
1) Excellent Optics, sharp edge to edge once horizontal shift is placed in the optimal position.
2) Weak blacks on the bright side.

The iris is not as fast as on the Pearl, but its not something that was a big deal to me. Movies dont change from bright to dark that often.

And most of all the Mits I used was SILENT.

And while we're at it, I think it's too noisy and the processing doesn't quite live up to my standards. :)

I"m beginning to think their are some major revision differences. I can barely hear mine with the lamp in standard mode even when standing next to it. And my hearing is one of the best that my doc said he has tested.

I'll have to test it with my SPL meter later.

In Italy They said to me that it's impossible to upgrade the Firmware from 2.0 to 3.0...

In U.S. and in other contries, Do you think is it possible?!?

walk on
sasadf

I"m beginning to think their are some major revision differences. I can barely hear mine with the lamp in standard mode even when standing next to it. And my hearing is one of the best that my doc said he has tested.

I'll have to test it with my SPL meter later.

I concur, in low lamp mode this thing is silent, in standard mode there is a bit more noise but still very quiet.

In Italy They said to me that it's impossible to upgrade the Firmware from 2.0 to 3.0...

In U.S. and in other contries, Do you think is it possible?!?

walk on
sasadf


yes it's possible, not sure why they say this to you. Living in Europe you need the PAL issues resolved and V3 does this

I"m beginning to think their are some major revision differences. I can barely hear mine with the lamp in standard mode even when standing next to it. And my hearing is one of the best that my doc said he has tested.That's what I keep thinking because my projector is very noisy in standard mode. But I've gone through four units and they've all sounded about equal, so at least in my region there aren't any noticeable differences between units.

The HC 5000 can't be NOISY!!

It sounds at 19db, when the threshold of human ear is 20db!!

You're joking!!

walk on
sasadf

The HC 5000 can't be NOISY!!

It sounds at 19db, when the threshold of human ear is 20db!!

You're joking!!

walk on
sasadf

Is it not low lamp mode at 19db, I think standard lamp is higher as i can hear it more easily, but equally standard is still one of the quietest I have ever heard.

The HC 5000 can't be NOISY!!

It sounds at 19db, when the threshold of human ear is 20db!!

You're joking!!Noise has a lot of other factors than some figure in a brochure, like frequency spectrum and beating for example. BTW threshold level of an average ear is greatly dependent of the frequency, being less than 0dB at some frequencies.

But I'll stop whining about the noise. It's still the quietest PJ I've had in my room. ;)

Sounds like you have dust somewhere making the blob.

The other things mentioned are misconvergence, all 3-LCD type projectors will have some. Some more than others.

You would have to go to a direct view LCD TV or DLP projector to eliminate it. DLP also solves the dust problem as the optics are fully sealed, and since the mirrors move any dust would just drop off.

The Mits I had was clean from dust, and the convergence was not perfect but the displayed images looked as sharp as a DLP with the nice processor it has.

Just in case, make sure you have the MIts set to NOT overscan, its defaults to 97% you need to set it to 100% for crisp text.
The green text should be very sharp as it is only using one panel.
Check your focus too, maybe the lens got knocked around?

Also dont use horizontal shift, use it to get the sharpest image then move the projector. I found using horizontal shift too much made a real mess of the corner sharpness, but then I found the optimal position and it was sharp edge to edge.

One of Mitsubishi's senior management has picked up on my problems with the HC5000 on the UK avforums and has promised action. Those who are interested please feel free to drop in on the post.

Mitsubishi confirmed before I bought this machine that they want to do everything possible to make customers happy. So far their service has been nothing short of extraordinary. Let's hope I get a top machine delivered.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=461076

Cheers

Here is The Perfect Vision's review of the Mits HC5000:

http://mag1.olivesoftware.com/am/getBook.asp?Path=TPV/2007/02/01&BookCollection=TPV_AM&ReaderStyle=TPV&OnePageMode=1

Scroll to page 5 and click on "Price Busting Projector"

Ultimate AV's review of the Mits HC5000

http://ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/107mits5000/

Can owners confirm that this projector accepts a 1080p signal thru component.

Here is The Perfect Vision's review of the Mits HC5000:

http://mag1.olivesoftware.com/am/getBook.asp?Path=TPV/2007/02/01&BookCollection=TPV_AM&ReaderStyle=TPV&OnePageMode=1

Scroll to page 5 and click on "Price Busting Projector"


The review was nothing new but damn, the Perfect Vision web interface was VERY innovative.

Can owners confirm that this projector accepts a 1080p signal thru component.


Yes it does. I've run the Xbox 360 and a Helios upconverting Dvd player through component at 1080p.

Yes it does. I've run the Xbox 360 and a Helios upconverting Dvd player through component at 1080p.
Thanks jonjandran.

I just got my HC5000 today. I was wondering if anyone knows what size screws to get to mount this using a Universal Ceiling Mount? Are they M4 size?

~Josh

I'm trying to get the wife to let me spring for one. And a PS3. And an HD-DVD player. And movies. Uhm, yeah.

Richard

The review was nothing new but damn, the Perfect Vision web interface was VERY innovative.
They must have had an update .. I couldn't find it :(

The Mits I used had
1) Excellent Optics, sharp edge to edge once horizontal shift is placed in the optimal position.
2) Weak blacks on the bright side.




What would you guys think about 2500:1 native contrast and 9000:1 in Iris1 mode... both @D65 of course?

This is no joke...

Regards,
Ekkehart, Cine4Home

:)

What would you guys think about 2500:1 native contrast and 9000:1 in Iris1 mode... both @D65 of course?

This is no joke...

Regards,
Ekkehart, Cine4Home

:)

IF you have a dark scene that can use the iris fully OK, but thats often not the case, I find its the true black level on a mixed image that is important as opposed to brighter whites?

With the open iris the blacks must measure quite a bit higher than a DLP?

If your not concerned about black level the Mits is amazing, looking as sharp or sharper than a DLP, but seeing the white of the screen where blacks should be I just could not adjust too, maybe a low gain grey screen would be great?

IF you have a dark scene that can use the iris fully OK, but thats often not the case, I find its the true black level on a mixed image that is important as opposed to brighter whites?

With the open iris the blacks must measure quite a bit higher than a DLP?



Right on. Mixed scenes pose a problem for dynamic irises, as we know. However, on the "bright side", a scene with a lot of blacks and near blacks, but also with a fairly large bright area, is less of a problem. The eye will be drawn to the really bright area, and the eye will adjust. Where it's more of a problem is when there is just a little full bright spots on a frame.

In my review, if you scroll down from this page:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/Manufacturers/mitsubishi/HC5000BL/imagequality.asp
I took these two images with the same exact exposure, one a star field, the other, same frame, but with Mitsubishi's menu system open. The iris couldn't close down, so the black levels are much, much brighter. And yes, brighter than a typical DLP with a Darkchip2 - but, not that much worse than some of those DLPs with Darkchip2 that run 7 segment wheels with the clear slice. -a

What would you guys think about 2500:1 native contrast and 9000:1 in Iris1 mode... both @D65 of course?I would think how, when and how much? :) Is this with your special filter?

What would you guys think about 2500:1 native contrast and 9000:1 in Iris1 mode... both @D65 of course?

This is no joke...

Regards,
Ekkehart, Cine4Home

:)

Tell me quick, how do I do that? You have the last piece of the puzzle?

Right on. Mixed scenes pose a problem for dynamic irises, ... Where it's more of a problem is when there is just a little full bright spots on a frame.

In my review, if you scroll down from this page:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/Manufacturers/mitsubishi/HC5000BL/imagequality.asp
I took these two images with the same exact exposure,.... -a

Nice example, I'd like to see more reviews that attempt to show what a brighter black level means in actual use. If someone has never had a projector before I'm sure they will love the Mits, but if your used to DLP even a old DLP on a high power screen, the bright blacks LCD can show will be very different than your used to and might require a screen change at the minimum.

All this constant hype of full on/off contrast when it means so little in the overall movie viewing experience. For movies its the how bright the black level is in mixed scenes that matters most as your example reveals.

I just got my HC5000 today. I was wondering if anyone knows what size screws to get to mount this using a Universal Ceiling Mount? Are they M4 size?

~Josh

On the bottom, now the top, by the screw holes it says:

MAX M4X8

M4 Lowe's carries them.

I have been reading about the Mits. So far the DI and black level are it's weakness. I wanted to ask has anyone, with an HTPC, tried HD-DVD material at 1080p/24. Will this projector handle 24fps, to avoid picture judder?



CDP

According to cine4home.de it does support 1080p/24. Google translation:


Does the projector actually support the classification of signals 1080p/24, does speak can the projector hp material in original film frequency represent? This is not noted in the official technical data. Already on the IFA insured us Mitsubishi that the HC5000 supports this classification of signals. In order to go however completely on “number safe”, we fed the HC5000 with this desired signal. This was possible on the Beamertreffen 2006 on the past weekend (thank you to olive sour man/Grobi north to this place). The JUSST S1 shows HDMaterial in 24p already We connected the HC5000 with a JUSST MediaCenter (www.jusst.de) over HDMI and received immediately we “gentleman of the rings” hp in 24p, without the disturbing 60Hz Pull down. Above screen SHOT of the HC5000-Infoscreens proves, the projector processes 1080p/24 without problems. Good pieces of news for all home cinema fans with dislikes to the coming 1080p/60 standard.

Link: http://cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/MitsubishiHC5000/HC5000Test24p.htm

Quote:
Does the projector actually support the classification of signals 1080p/24, does speak can the projector hp material in original film frequency represent? This is not noted in the official technical data. Already on the IFA insured us Mitsubishi that the HC5000 supports this classification of signals. In order to go however completely on “number safe”, we fed the HC5000 with this desired signal. This was possible on the Beamertreffen 2006 on the past weekend (thank you to olive sour man/Grobi north to this place). The JUSST S1 shows HDMaterial in 24p already We connected the HC5000 with a JUSST MediaCenter (www.jusst.de) over HDMI and received immediately we “gentleman of the rings” hp in 24p, without the disturbing 60Hz Pull down. Above screen SHOT of the HC5000-Infoscreens proves, the projector processes 1080p/24 without problems. Good pieces of news for all home cinema fans with dislikes to the coming 1080p/60 standard.


This is very good news. Not to ask a stupid questions, but, is this also possible through the DVI input as well? Just covering all base's.


CDP

I would think how, when and how much? :) Is this with your special filter?


No, this time we did several modifications. News will follow soon...

Regards,
Ekkehart

Can't wait to hear more about this. Is it something the average user can do, or do you have to send it back to Mitsubishi?

I have been reading about the Mits. So far the DI and black level are it's weakness. I wanted to ask has anyone, with an HTPC, tried HD-DVD material at 1080p/24. Will this projector handle 24fps, to avoid picture judder?



CDP

The HC5000 review in magazine "The perfect vision" February issue, states:

"The HC5000 can accept 1080p signals at 60 and 24 frames per second. Even better, it displays 1080p/24 at 48Hz, displaying each frame twice. This is great for Blu-ray players from Pioneer and Sony that can output 1080p/24, as it completely avoids any 3:2 pulldown headaches."

/Jonas

Has anyone found the service menu area to adjust the panels? I have a one-pixel mis-alignment on the green panel (green shadows on bottom of areas).

No, this time we did several modifications. News will follow soon...

Regards,
Ekkehart


Sweet - look forward to hearing more... :cool:

I am using the HC5000 with a Pioneer 59avi as source, and noticed that this combo did not pass btb at the get-go, and passed wtw compressed to the first ire's after 234.

Reducing the white level on the Pio to the second most left position resulted in all the wtw uncompressed. Raising the black level on the pio one notch showed btb, but still cramming all the btb in between the 12-16 IRE. Raising it more uncompresses btb, but avoid to overshoot or noise in black will appear, as well as diluting the blacks.

This is at the 0 IRE setting of the Pio and "standard" hdmi color. (I'm using PAL). All measurments are estimates (or educated guesses) with different calibration discs, I didn't have the equipment to measure actual ire output.

While raising the black level on the Pio, the minimum aperture of the Mits iris on Auto 2 varied considerably. The higher the black level on the Pio, the less the iris closes on the Mits, loosing contrast.

The same results are found with a 7.5 IRE setting on the Pio, and reducing black level. At the get-go from the 7.5 ire setting, btb is there, but the iris isn't closing down very far, resulting in poor blacks. Reducing black levels makes the iris close down more, but results in compressed btb and ultimately no btb. Obviously the Mits DI has different minimum aperture limits depending on the incoming black level.

For those who feel that the DI is doing too much of a good thing on its "auto 2" setting, it could help to raise the black level at the source until it produces a black closer to the "auto 1" setting, but it will work faster, and produce better blacks than the "auto 3" setting.

The choice is between best blacks, no btb, and a visible DI or more or less compressed btb, ok blacks and no or less visible DI.

http://www.projectorpeople.com/projectors/projdtls.asp?itemid=21439&itmname=Mitsubishi+HC5000&SID=QFRO

k

http://www.projectorpeople.com/projectors/projdtls.asp?itemid=21439&itmname=Mitsubishi+HC5000&SID=QFRO

k

The the greymarket HC5000. They must no longer carry it.

I have been bedating btw the Mits and Panny for a HT projector. The spot I want to mount the projector is 10.5 ft from the screen. What size image can I get , including the use of the zoom function, at this distance, Looking for largest possible image size.


CDP

We have them. If you want, call or PM me. That pictured is the White which was sold in Europe.

As far as the throw, you can most likely get around 100 inches diagonal with the 10.5 distance according to the zoom specs.

Richard

I'm also debating between these two projectors. I am curious what "mods" cine4home did to the Mits, what the results are and whether the mods can be applied to other projectors like the Epson 1080, Pearl etc.

I got the replacement HC-5000BL in ser number 16xx range

Thank you Jason and AVS for coming through. The new one doesn't have the dust blob problem =)

No dead or stuck pixels either on this one. No sign of banding.

Ran through image tests and looked hard for dust blobs this time. So far none, WOOHOO!

I have been bedating btw the Mits and Panny for a HT projector. The spot I want to mount the projector is 10.5 ft from the screen. What size image can I get , including the use of the zoom function, at this distance, Looking for largest possible image size.


CDP

I am using the Mitsubishi and it replaced an older AE700 Panny.

The Mitsu is slightly smaller at its max zoom (1.6 vs 2.0) than the Panny but surprisingly it wasn't all that obvious (a lot less noticeable than I expected).

I think projector central usually has a projection size calculator.

I am projecting from around 9-11 feet as well. And can get abt 100 inch width (not diagonal, but actual width) projected.

I love this projector. For any of you wanteing to get perhaps the best budget 1080p projector that doesn't perform like a budget projector, please do so!

Richard

I love this projector. For any of you wanteing to get perhaps the best budget 1080p projector that doesn't perform like a budget projector, please do so!

Richard

You don't find the DI distracting? I'm hoping Mitsubishi eventually mitigates the issue with subsequent firmware upgrade/s.

It could be improved upon yes, but I think overall it's a great projector for the price. ourdall does a good job at mentioning what one can mitigate the DI with, but to be fair, for the street price, you can't get a cheaper 1080p projector with good colors and a great image.

Every 1080p projector seems to have a weakness. The Ruby is too soft (though I'd say it's normal not soft) even though it's black level is great. The Optoma HD81 doesn't give you much flexibility in terms of set up and throw distance. The Panasonic, well I have a rear pro CRT from them I love but I won't buy another one of their products unless it was the be all end all and they actually supported it.

Richard

Hi,

What's the latest firmware version of HC5000? Also, where can we download the latest version?

Well the DI for me is not distracting. I only really notice it when I'm actively looking for it. The only thing I really wish for in this projector is being able to set presets for lens shift/focus/zoom. I am curious to know what modifications were made by cine4home though to improve contrast. For ease of setup for 1080P projectors under $10k I don't think you can really beat the HC-5000BL with it's power'd zoom/focus/lens shift from remote ability. Is there another under $10k with these abilities?

At this point I kinda wonder what Mitsubishi's next 1080P offering will have heh heh.

People who wanted to upgrade from firmware 2.0 to 3.0 had to send it in to Mitsubishi. So, I don't it's so as downloading something and do it yourself.

I'll check into what our stock batch of projectors have in terms of firmware. I had a few go out the door so I'll call up a few people and see what it is.

Richard

i am scheduled to receive my 5000 in a few days.

can people please post their optimal settings with a blu-ray player as signal source? it would be nice to get comparisons between AVS users. i am assuming 'out of the box' settings aren't optimal...