Not sure if im in the right section here but does anyone know what the best one is or does it make that much of a difference which one you use.I have used the AVIA dvd for my CRT.How is the HQV benchmark dvd?thanks

What is your display?

Also, use the search function.

The HQV DVD is a "torture test" DVD used to test video processing, and cannot be used for calibration. It does not have any test patterns for brightness, contrast, color and tint adjustments. There are many threads on calibration discs in this forum. If you read them, you will get many answers to the question you asked.

Avia can probably make a huge difference, i simply went through THX optimizer on one of my DVD's and I was blown away at the imrpovement of image quality.

The basic Avia is fine for adjusting color, tint, sharpness, white, and the black levels. However, it's not a good choice for adjusting gray scale: the IRE windows were corrupted by extraneous color.

One can easily eliminate the grayscale issues (which in any case is quite minor) by simply reducing color saturation to zero.

Thanks for the help guys.

Avical's DVE user-level video calibration tutorial

Introduction

DVE (Digital Video Essentials) begins with an introduction on basic video and splits off into different sections that one navigates through using their DVD player's remote. At Avical, we suggest viewing the entire disc as it includes many sections that will further troubleshoot video and audio systems beyond the scope of this article. For those wanting an even deeper explanation behind each pattern's intended use, Joe Kane Productions has provided test pattern descriptions available on their website (http://www.VideoEssentials.com).

Understanding a DVD player's navigational options and DVE's menu structure.

DVDs come with two different menu systems. The first (upper menu) is usually accessed via a "Top Menu" or "Title" button on a player's remote. The second (lower menu) is simply called the “Menu” and is accessed using the "Menu" button. It acts as a sub menu to the Title/Top menu system. The trick to DVE is knowing the exact locations of a few key test patterns and how to get to them quickly. For example, on most Sony DVD players, pressing the "Display" button will bring up a page that allows the title and chapter number to be entered. Since DVE comes with an index that lists the program in a Title/Chapter format, it is much easier to know the specific location associated with each pattern. But as a heads up, every pattern in this article is found in Title 12. ;)

Perform adjustments in a light controlled environment.

A quality image cannot be attained in a room that doesn't have total light control. If this cannot be achieved during the day, the adjustments ought to be made during the evening with the lights off. A rear mounted Cinema Quest Ideal-lume (http://www.cinemaquestinc.com/ideal_lume.htm) bias light would be an exception.

Preparing the DVD player for calibration.

Whenever possible, the DVD player's video output should be connected directly to the display. Doing so will lessen the chance of potentially degrading the signal by having it go through unnecessary circuitry. There will likely be a number of different connectivity options. In order of grade, these may include composite (1 RCA), S-video, component (3 RCA), DVI, and HDMI.

The DVD player will also need to be adjusted within its own setup menu to ensure that it is outputting properly. This can get tricky as every make/model can have different controls. But in general, if the TV's screen is oblong (1.78:1), the "16x9" or "Widescreen" option should be chosen. If it has the older squarish shape (1.33:1), the "4x3" or "Normal" option should be selected. If there is a black-level control and the composite or S-video output is being used, place it in the 7.5 IRE position. If component is being used, place it in the "0" IRE position. On newer players with digital video outputs (DVI, HDMI), there is often one more adjustment for black-level consisting of a “Normal” or “Enhanced” mode. These modes differentiate between video based systems (16-235) and computer based systems (0-255). For most applications, this should be set to the "Normal" mode. As stated earlier, some players may offer additional controls such as brightness, contrast, color, tint, gamma, etc. Generally speaking, these should be left untouched although there are a few players that need further adjusting within these extended setup menus to output properly. Please refer to the player's owner's manual for additional setup configurations.

Preparing the display for calibration.

The display should be "neutralized" prior to running DVE as well. This entails turning off all controls such as "Iris", "SVM", "Black Extension", etc., putting the user-menu controls at 50% or down the middle, choosing a viewing mode that has the least amount of edge enhancement (often titled Movie, Cinema or Pro) and placing the TV within a color temperature that will be closer to the SMPTE D6500 color temperature reference standard (often titled Warm, Low, NTSC, etc.). However, keep in mind that no two displays will come out of the factory looking exactly the same. Consequently, while putting one in the "Warm" color temperature may bring it closer to the desired 6500K region, on another display of the same make and model, the Warm color temperature might be higher or lower than 6500k. This is where having an instrument like the Photo Research PR650 Minolta CS200 comes in handy as they will reveal with incredible accuracy where the grayscale lies.

Step 1: Brightness

The first two items adjusted on a display are the brightness and contrast. While these two controls are interactive, brightness primarily impacts the lower end of the grayscale (blacks) and contrast the top end (whites). It is also important to note that they will influence the grayscale somewhat and therefore any color information placed over it.

Navigate to Title 12, Chapter 2, “DVE PLUGE w/Gray Scale”

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a173/Eliab/PLUGE-LAPL.jpg

This pattern’s function is to assess/adjust the brightness level on all types of displays and the contrast on a CRT. It consists of a background at video black and symmetrical PLUGE on both the left and right side of the log gray scale (four vertically aligned rectangles in the middle of the screen).

The log gray scale can be used to inspect the neutrality or lack thereof of the grayscale. A bluish tint is usually indicative of a grayscale that is higher (cooler) than D6500. A reddish tint is usually indicative of a grayscale that is lower (warmer) than D6500. A greenish tint, on the other hand, can be warmer or cooler than D6500 and is usually the least desirable as most people are more sensitive to its inaccuracies than a grayscale that leans towards blue or red.

This section of the PLUGE pattern can be used as a guide in selecting a color temperature preset that is closest to D6500.

The background of this pattern represents "black" while the three vertical strips at either side represent 4% below black, 4% above black, and 2% above black. Ideally, one should only be able to see the 4% and 2% above black strips.

Navigate to Title 12, Chapter 3, “DVE PLUGE w/White”

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a173/Eliab/PLUGE-HAPL.jpg

The previous PLUGE pattern represented a low average picture level (APL) whereas this one represents a high APL. Toggle between these two patterns to arrive at the most accurate brightness setting.

We have found that on many CRT displays, one will have to compromise by adjusting the brightness so that only the 4% above black is visible within this pattern. Otherwise, the blacks may look too washed out.

Those with CRT displays should adjust the brightness control and set it to where the 4% below black strip has disappeared while the 4% above strips are still viewable using T.12/CH2 & CH3.

On an LCD, D-ILA, and DLP display, this process is slightly different in that many of these do not have gamma curves similar to a CRT which cause the below/above black strips to appear/disappear. For these displays, it is necessary to look for where black is being "crushed" or lost. If one stands close to the screen and raises the brightness, they will notice that there is some "noise" in the black background. Conversely, as the brightness is brought back down, the noise eventually goes away.

Those with digital displays should adjust the brightness control until they can clearly see the noise in the background, and then lower it again until the noise disappears but where the 2% above black strips are still visible.

Step 2: Contrast

On a CRT, you may use the PLUGE pattern to set contrast.

Those with CRT displays should raise the contrast control while carefully viewing the top box (peak white) until it starts to bloom (become larger than the other boxes), or when it starts to turn yellow in comparison to the boxes below it. When this occurs, back off the contrast so that it is no longer clipping.

Contrast and brightness are interactive so make sure to recheck the brightness once you have adjusted contrast and vice versa.

If one is using a digital display, setting contrast is slightly different. For these, we recommend a different pattern.

Navigate to Title 12, Chapter 14, "Reverse Gray Ramps & Steps"

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a173/Eliab/CROSS.jpg

This pattern may be used to assess/adjust brightness, contrast, bit depth, and gamma. Here we will describe its use in setting contrast properly on a digital display.

Notice the top and bottom portions of this pattern which consists of a gray ramp. The twenty-two steps extend from 5% below black to 5% above white with the ramps extending to the limits of the digital video system. Markers, which appear as three vertical dots, are placed at video black, 50% and 100%.

Unlike an analog CRT, digital displays do not go into blooming. Hence the reason why a PLUGE pattern cannot be used to adjust contrast on an LCD, D-ILA, and DLP. On these displays, any video information must be below the clip point level. If the contrast is turned too high, chances are that part of the video signal will be pushed into clipping and whatever detail is in that portion will be lost. The contrast control must be turned down so that the bars towards the brighter sections of the ramp (top left or bottom right) are clearly delineated from one another.

Those with digital displays should run the contrast control up to see if the steps start to blend together. The proper position for contrast is below the point of clipping, i.e. when each bar is distinguishable and/or uniform in color.

On some displays, turning the contrast down will not pull the video out of the clip. This is often an indication that the DVD player is running into its own digital clip. If so, go back to the player's setup menu and turn down its contrast by one click. This will usually eliminate the clip. If not, lower the contrast by another click and so on until every bar is clearly visible. In some cases, the two lightest bars will remain blended together no matter how much the contrast is lowered. In such cases, revert the player to its factory contrast setting.

Step 3: Color and Tint

As with the brightness and contrast, the color and tint controls are interactive.

Navigate to Title 12, Chapter 6, "Color Bars w/Gray Reference"

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a173/Eliab/COLOR.jpg

For calibrating composite or S-Video, observe the blue channel (blue, magenta, and cyan squares) while viewing through the blue portion of the filter that came with DVE (the red, yellow, and green squares will be masked).

Adjust the color control (amplitude) so that the two outer blue squares appear close in shade with one another. This may alter the shade of the magenta and cyan squares which will need to be adjusted using the tint/hue control (phase) so that they appear as close in shade with one another as well. There may be a bit of going back and forth before favorable results are achieved.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a173/Eliab/COLOR-BLU.jpg

For component video, the same observations apply except that the tint will control color balance instead of decoder phase. Tint is not normally available in component video.

While this procedure will work for the majority of displays, there are a few that require an ISF technician to achieve the desired results. For example, the current Samsung DLP RPTVs utilize a color coordinate adjustment mode known as "CCA" which color corrects the primary and secondary colors to system specifications. It does this by adding red and green to blue, thus negating the results when using a color filter. As such, it can only be adjusted properly by temporarily disabling the CCA option within the service menu.

Step 4: Sharpness

The last adjustment in the typical consumer menu is the sharpness control.

Navigate to Title 12, Chapter 17, "1.33 Overscan Pattern"

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a173/Eliab/OVERSCAN.jpg

The Overscan pattern shows how much picture information is being displayed. This pattern may also be used to assess different aspects of a system's performance. Here we will describe its use in setting the sharpness control.

When the sharpness is set too high, it introduces noise as well as "ringing" on the edges of objects. Most people are used to this excessive edge enhancement and sometimes feel that a display looks too "soft" when it is turned down. It is therefore important for one to give themselves a period of time to acclimate to a less "edgy" picture once sharpness is lowered.

To set the sharpness, raise and lower the control while observing the image transitions between the gray and black areas of the picture. If halos or artificial edges start becoming apparent, the sharpness is set too high. Simply lower it until the edges are clean without any artificial edge enhancement.

On some displays, bringing the sharpness control all the way down may adversely affect image resolution. If when lowering the sharpness control the overscan pattern suddenly looks fuzzy from one click to the next, set it back to the position right before the major change. This can be the case with certain DVD players that have a sharpness control in their setup menu as well.

Conclusion

As mentioned earlier, there are many more patterns than the ones that we described that can assist in evaluating and setting up other aspects of a video (and audio) system. We just touched upon the critical patterns needed for a quick and easy user-level video calibration. Again, we suggest going through the entire disc to gain an even deeper understanding of how a home theater audio/video system works.

Eliab

wow thanks this is very helpful.

You're welcome and good luck!

Eliab

One can easily eliminate the grayscale issues (which in any case is quite minor) by simply reducing color saturation to zero.I agree that this would be a workaround to the problem. I think I disagree about the importance of it. I could eyeball the difference in a display that was recalibrated with uncorrupted gray scale patterns. It didn't seem that subtle to me.

thanks, this dvd is so complicated.

Our own GetGray's calibration DVD is the best if you know what you are doing!
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=586139

I agree Kroot. It's the fastest and easiest one to use (if you have an idea of what you are doing, and have a DVD burner on your PC). You can get the manual (scroll down the following web page) and particulars from www.calibrate.tv.

Eliab -- That's the best description of how to use DVE that I have seen anywhere :cool:. Thanks (didn't you post that description in another thread too?).

Our own GetGray's calibration DVD is the best if you know what you are doing!
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=586139
And you don't have to know much about what you are doing, particularly if you've used Avia or DVE already. They all use the same concepts.

I have an older version of Nero and also DVD Shrink. I'm assuming that I can burn these .ts files to DVD on my computer using either one of these tools.

Or would it take something else?

Wayne

They are just the DVD files, nothing special about them. The complete VIDEO_TS folder. It is identical to the output of a DVDShrink session ripping a DVD. If you can use DVD shrink to create a DVD copy, you should have no trouble making the calibration DVD. For that matter, I suppose you could use the open files option of DVDshrink and do it that way if you like.

Thanks. I've just skimmed through your documentation PDF. That seems to help a great deal. I intend to acquire this. Good idea on just using the files option. I'll need to burn a copy if I want to calibrate my Oppo player though. Nice to know either method can be used.

Wayne

In another thread I asked about the settings of my DVD player. The conclusion is, CALIBRATION DVDs DO NOT CALIBRATE THE DISPLAY; they only calibrate the specific combination of DVD player (with the current settings) plus display.

When you are watching video from any other source, your display is not calibrated for that source.

DVD players may have brightness/contrast/color/tint/sharpness settings that are quite far from "neutral". So by and large, calibration DVDs are being sold based on a false promise. I understand that test pattern generators (in place of the DVD and player) would result in a source-independent calibration, but they cost several hundred dollars.

In another thread I asked about the settings of my DVD player. The conclusion is, CALIBRATION DVDs DO NOT CALIBRATE THE DISPLAY; they only calibrate the specific combination of DVD player (with the current settings) plus display.

When you are watching video from any other source, your display is not calibrated for that source.

DVD players may have brightness/contrast/color/tint/sharpness settings that are quite far from "neutral". So by and large, calibration DVDs are being sold based on a false promise. I understand that test pattern generators (in place of the DVD and player) would result in a source-independent calibration, but they cost several hundred dollars.

Nothing false about calibrating the video chain. From source to display that's how it is supposed to be done. With a DVD player you need to use a calibration disk. If you use a pattern generator then you are calibrating to that as the source and that would get pretty boring after awhile watching the same patterns over and over :)

Yes a pattern generator has it's place when you are calibrating the service level or master settings for a base line or for a source input you don't have test patterns for. But you still have to then calibrate for each source device and for a DVD player that's a calibration disk. For other sources you may have a VHS cal tape, LD cal disk, OTA test patterns recorded, Cable or Sat patterns from HD-Net or you may just have to eyeball it based on what you learned from the other sources.

BTW, to answer the OP? GetGray is the best cal disk

In another thread I asked about the settings of my DVD player. The conclusion is, CALIBRATION DVDs DO NOT CALIBRATE THE DISPLAY; they only calibrate the specific combination of DVD player (with the current settings) plus display.

When you are watching video from any other source, your display is not calibrated for that source.

DVD players may have brightness/contrast/color/tint/sharpness settings that are quite far from "neutral". So by and large, calibration DVDs are being sold based on a false promise. I understand that test pattern generators (in place of the DVD and player) would result in a source-independent calibration, but they cost several hundred dollars.

They are not being sold on a false premise. The purpose of calibration is to align the playback chain for accurate video playback.

Signal generators do not really achieve this because if the source or playback chain is not the same as what the signal generator outputs, then you have not achieved an accurate image on the screen from your sources.

BTW, to answer the OP? GetGray is the best cal disk

I'll second that. GetGray is the best bar none. I feel like pulling my hair out trying to use Avia after using GetGray...

I've just posted my review of SpyderTVPro in this forum under the SpyderTVPro reviews thread if anyone's interested. ;)

Wayne

My 67" Samsung 6767 DLP has a lousy picture when driven by my HTPC. Whites are too white, blacks too black (no detail in both). Do I modify my ATI driver settings first (for contrast and brightness), or adjust the DLP's settings? How do you fine-tune cascades like that? I've use the Avia and modified the TV settings, but nothing looks right.

PS I'm in Boston but we don't seem to have any calibrators out here.

Spearse

My 67" Samsung 6767 DLP has a lousy picture when driven by my HTPC. Whites are too white, blacks too black (no detail in both). Do I modify my ATI driver settings first (for contrast and brightness), or adjust the DLP's settings? How do you fine-tune cascades like that? I've use the Avia and modified the TV settings, but nothing looks right.

PS I'm in Boston but we don't seem to have any calibrators out here.

Spearse

PCs are complex environments. Especially since graphics levels is not the same as video levels. Read my guide as linked in my signature it explains some of these issues.

As for what you're viewing via PC, you'll need to provide much more thorough details such as what software you're using and what you're using as the renderer, video card and drivers, etc.

Thanks chriswiggles,
You have a very comprehensive guide. I will analyze it thoroughly. I've been driving my HTPC for 6 years (ATI 9600 to Mits 65" via transcoder) with great results. I "upgraded" to my 6767 Samsung 67" 1080p, but am very disappointed so far. I have the same HTPC going directly into the Sammie's VGA port 1080p. Latest ATI drivers, with lots of fine tuning options. Avia looks the same whether from PowerDVD or WinDVD. Even the windows default sky/clouds desktop has over saturated whites and darks. Any attempt at correcting just greys blacks and whites to muddiness.

Basic question is do you assume PC input is default and correct the TV, or correct PC with default TV settings? Where do you start? The iterations can drive you crazy.

Also, why don't these DLP manufacturers ship a CD with .icm color profiles? My HTPC can import and use those .icm files and get colors just right. That would help tremendously. AVS forum search brings up nothing for HDTV color profiles.

Spearse

Our own GetGray's calibration DVD is the best if you know what you are doing!

Hi,
sorry I'm a bit unclear on this - you download the DVD file from 'calibrate.tv' and burn it onto a DVD? How much does it cost?

thanks

Tim

Tim,

If I remember correctly they ask for a 'donation' of $25.00 as a one time fee. Seems very reasonable compared to the other discs floating around in calibration universe.

Wayne

Hi,
sorry I'm a bit unclear on this - you download the DVD file from 'calibrate.tv' and burn it onto a DVD? How much does it cost?

thanks

TimGo to www.calibrate.tv. All of the information is posted there.

Does this just improve the image?

Well, it's supposed to at least :)

GetGray

I just ordered the Avia and then i discover your product. In reviewing your web-site it says NOT for LCD products. Am I safe to believe that it will not work on my Sanyo Z5 projector? It is an LCD projector.

In reviewing your web-site it says NOT for LCD products. Am I safe to believe that it will not work on my Sanyo Z5 projector? It is an LCD projector.Gotta read slower ;). The first sentence on the website says:
"This calibration disc designed specifically for fixed pixel devices (NOT CRT's). "It is specifically for LCD's etc. Not CRT's., big difference. If you really saw a place on the website that says not for LCD's, point it out I'll fix it and give you one.

It says in the manual not use this disc unless you know what you are doing to avoid damaging the display... is that more of a disclaimer? Assuming I don't do anything stupid- enter service menu, not follow DVD directions- is there any risk that someone like me will damage my display (will be DLP front projector, so no burn in).

Anything to watch out for?

DLP has no burn-in you're fine. Presumably scott just doesn't want to get into any trouble by someone leaving it up on their CRT or plasma or doing something else stupid, or messing around in their service menu and then attempting to blame him. It's not going to make your TV shoot fireballs... ;)

What Chris said. Really the only thing I can think of that one could do to hurt a display with *any* canlibration DVD is leave a pattern up on a burn-in sensitive display for too long thus burning it. If a calibration DVD has a pattern that does not time out (this includes some of my patterns), and someone put it up on the screen and went shopping all day, it could presumably cause the problem. Otherwise the images on the DVD are no different than images from any other source; they just don't move/change. I suppose if someone had a CRT with a marginal power supply, putting up a 100% full screen white could tax it more than any normal pattern. But again, that wouldn't be an issue unless someone left it there.

There may be other ways to hose a display with any calibration DVD, I don't know of one though. But what's the old saying, make it foolproof and a smarter fool will come along :), something like that. So my disclaimer is my "official" statement :)

I sit corrected. It was 3:00 in the morning and I was at work. My eyes must have been seeing things. Thanks for the tip, I'll try to slow down. LOL Anyway I'll be ordering soon, probably at 3:00 am.

My apologies
LMcCullugh

Does this calibration DVD walk a newbie through the process or is it more for people that have prior expertise in calibration? I recenlty got my first HD TV - a Samsung HL-S6187W and would like to attempt to improve the picture and hopefully learn a little in the process.

Does this calibration DVD walk a newbie through the process or is it more for people that have prior expertise in calibration? I recenlty got my first HD TV - a Samsung HL-S6187W and would like to attempt to improve the picture and hopefully learn a little in the process.

There's the manual, and while it's a straightforward disc, it doesn't have the narrations and such that some of the other discs have. But I wouldn't say that it's just for people with prior experience either. It can definitely help the beginner, but a beginner might also want to have another disc to start with and use this one as a supplement, especially since the other discs have (DVE/Avia) audio test tones which are also quite useful for that side of things.

how does it differ vs. DVE, which i just purchased? as a "normal" user, all i can calibrate is the basic 5, so would it even be worth it? might be a moot point anyways since my laptop doesn't have a DVD burner.

There's the manual, and while it's a straightforward disc, it doesn't have the narrations and such that some of the other discs have. But I wouldn't say that it's just for people with prior experience either. It can definitely help the beginner, but a beginner might also want to have another disc to start with and use this one as a supplement, especially since the other discs have (DVE/Avia) audio test tones which are also quite useful for that side of things.

Thanks for the info. I decided to start out with DVE - then depending upon how much enjoyment (or frustration) I get out of it I can decide if I want to pursue other calibration DVD's. :)

What about using the standard THX Optimizer found on many DVDs (a couple of which are in my home library, thus don't have to buy anything else.) I know they are more basic, but surely they'll work fine with my new plasma? I'd value your opinions...

The THX optimizers are sometimes different from DVD to DVD, i.e. they are not all "reference" levels.

What about using the standard THX Optimizer found on many DVDs (a couple of which are in my home library, thus don't have to buy anything else.) I know they are more basic, but surely they'll work fine with my new plasma? I'd value your opinions...

Acceptable for a temporary basic solution, but I do not recommend THX discs because they can vary, also the patterns are quite limited. It's hardly cost prohibitive to purchase a proper comprehensive calibration disc. You can use optimode stuff while you're waiting for your calibration disc to arrive, but otherwise....

Is it true that DVE is finally being updated? My favorite DVD dealer is showing a pre-purchase for a hybrid version of DVE to ship on 1/30/07.

They're supposed to be coming out with a HD + SD version of it (don't remember if it's Blu-Ray or HD-DVD though).

NOTE: Looks like it's HD-DVD, see http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=781072.

I have an older version of DVE, it's in LD format and was bought sometime around 1995. Is there any advantage in going to a newer version on DVD given my LD player still works great?

Strange that I can spend thousands on AV equipment every few years and never want to spend another $30 on a new calibration disk. :D

I have an older version of DVE, it's in LD format and was bought sometime around 1995. Is there any advantage in going to a newer version on DVD given my LD player still works great?Ideally, you need the patterns to be generated by the device being calibrated. If you had a LD player and DVD player, you'd want patterns from both and calibrate both independently. I have thme but I don't know what the differences are in VE and DVE, but if it's DVE, I do not belive there is more than one version of it.

Thanks Gray. I'm not sure off the top of my head if it's VE or DVE... but I want to say it's DVE. Then again, was DVE even out in 1995? Maybe it is VE. :confused:

Either way, I understand your point regarding the source, but I have multiple sources (and connections) so I'm not sure if I want to go to those extremes... unless it's really needed(???).

umm this may be a sacriligious question to pose on this forum but....any chance factory settings are ever good or is calibration always suggested/beneficial? I ask because I think my new Samsung LCD looks amazing but then again i have no clue about anything a/v and just about anything would probably look better than the 12 year old crt my samsung just replaced. Just wante dto confirm before i start messing with my new equipment and ruin everything=)

Wetone: I understand. If you have one source that is fairly neutral and you calibrate a display to that, then you can get close. For example I have a SDI output DVD player so it does not go through a color decoder but takes the YCbCr digital righ off the DVD and passes them along. A signal generator is jsut that, a "perfect source" and you calibrate to that, then calibrate everything else to that reference point. You can't always get source patterns for your device (e.g. my HD Tivo) without heroic efforts ($$$ - Sencore ATSC signal generator) and you just have to use what you've got. Then again, $25-30 bucks for a DVD is a long way from a couple three grand for a Sencore, or $1300 for an Accupel.

mirlene: It is device dependent. For example Infocus is known for having their PJ's be almost spot on D65 out of the box. My 777 was that way. My Optoma PJ's on the other hand were ridiculously off. Again, I'd say it varies by device. At the least any of the popular calibration DVD's can assist withthe 4 basic adjustments (Brightness, Contrast, Color, Tint) adn they can help you determine if it needs pro help by looking at it's grayscale. I think it varies on user, too. Some people are perfectly happy with a picture that I see as clearly off. I have a relative who had a LCD unit that had never seen anything close to black. It's black bars looked like a 30% pattern. They were perfectly happy with it and didn't know better. Until I showed them how far off is was :)

Some displays (not very many) are fairly well calibrated from the factory. I've seen some Sony projectors amd CRTs that weren't half bad. However, at least based on my experience Samsung LCDs do NOT fall into this category. The gray scale is MUCH too blue and the color points are significantly off, though I saw no way to adjust this.

umm this may be a sacriligious question to pose on this forum but....any chance factory settings are ever good or is calibration always suggested/beneficial? I ask because I think my new Samsung LCD looks amazing but then again i have no clue about anything a/v and just about anything would probably look better than the 12 year old crt my samsung just replaced. Just wante dto confirm before i start messing with my new equipment and ruin everything=)

Thanks again Gray.

BTW, sometimes ignorance is bliss. ;)

Thanks Gray - I have ordered the Digital Video Essentials DVD to see what I'm missing out on - hope its not way over my head =)

Thanks, Tom - so its possible the calibration cd won't be able to help me adjust? =/

Thanks, Tom - so its possible the calibration cd won't be able to help me adjust? =/
Mirlene,

DVE should give you the ability to make some significant improvements to your display. Most displays have enough adjustments to get you very close. Chances are your display out of the box is not very close to being calibrated so I suspect you'll be more than happy with the results after you play with DVE. Then again, if you're that happy with the way it looks now, well... like I said above, sometimes ignorance is bliss. :)

BTW, DVE is pretty easy to use for just doing the basics (which is probably what you'll want to do), you'll have no problem. DVE also contains a lot of advanced stuff, but that can get very complicated if you're not in the business.

Good luck! :)

This might sound foolish but why is GetGray only available as a download? Surely you could make decent money offering this as a complete DVD for people without burning capabilities? I'm a Mac user myself and I'd love to get my hands on a copy of GetGray but I'm not willing to go through the trouble of finding a PC (the enemy), DL'ing the files, going through a massive PC headache, burning it, etc. So I was forced to buy DVE instead just this week.

IMO you should take some marketing steps and take this to the next level. I believe your product is better (everyone seems to think so), but since your web site doesn't offer a complete DVD for people like me, you're missing out on sales.

You'd be surprised what an actual product (versus DL only) can do to boost sales.

This might sound foolish but why is GetGray only available as a download? Surely you could make decent money offering this as a complete DVD for people without burning capabilities? I'm a Mac user myself and I'd love to get my hands on a copy of GetGray but I'm not willing to go through the trouble of finding a PC (the enemy), DL'ing the files, going through a massive PC headache, burning it, etc. So I was forced to buy DVE instead just this week.

IMO you should take some marketing steps and take this to the next level. I believe your product is better (everyone seems to think so), but since your web site doesn't offer a complete DVD for people like me, you're missing out on sales.

You'd be surprised what an actual product (versus DL only) can do to boost sales.It's available as a download to avoid duplicating & (world-wide) shipping hassles, as GetGray explained early in his thread. I don't see why you can't burn the DVD from your MAC. You can certainly unzip the files (either the ISO or the Video_TS versions - they are not OS dependent), and there is DVD burning software for the MAC that should work.

Claus: I removed the VIDEO_TS version, it casued too many problems. Mainly people putting it on a CD then complaining (privately) that it didn't work in their particular player (until they put it on a DVD). But also from having trouble creating a DVD video compliant disc (i.e. UDF file system, etc.). The iso only option cured both problems, particulalry since the contributed suggestion of using imgburn. It was the initial lack of Imgburn (knowledge of) that I didn't do iso's in teh first place, some software is hard to operate with isos. Obviously not imgburn. I presume they do not have a Mac version, but have not looked.

Claus is mostly right about the D/L vs a hard disc. No time to ship all over the world. The thing is used from Iceland to Au. on every continent. It's gone to places I figured might not have mail ;). But I understand your point and agree there are a few misses. There are others where people don't or won't use Paypal, too but that takes a huge load off of me.

I've had a couple "big-dogs" interested in bundling it with their products (can't say who) and for that I'd have to have some "pressed". If I do that I'll make the hard copies avail, time permitting. Really it is not practical to get less than 1000 copies made. And although there are a lot of contributors, I think it woudl take a while to unload a pressed set. Not to mention the duplication cost vs the cost of the bandwidth.

Right now my focus is on finishing the CineSlide (www.cineslide.com). If someone could come fnish my theater room while I work on this cool stuff I'd have more time :):). Unfortunately none of it pays enough to have Dennis Erskine come do it for me :eek:.

Does GetGray work for plasma TVs

Yes, it works very well with plasmas.

Yes, it works very well with plasmas.
thanks

Yes.

I have a question for you folks.
I don't have any of the calibration disks that are out on the market. While I would love to fund GetGrey, I do not have any of the filters that are required for optimal calibration. Is there anywhere I could pick up the filters by themselves? Am I reading too much into it? Does GetGrey even require the use of color filters?

I am thinking of just picking up DVE, but, it has received so many varied remarks that I am actually scared of it.

I have an Oppo 970 connected via HDMI to a Sony 50E2000 3LCD with a max output of 720p/1080i. What is the best thing for my setup?

Thanks.

While I would love to fund GetGrey,...

jkwest,

You can find Get Gray at this site.

http://www.calibrate.tv/

---Jerry---

Is there anywhere I could pick up the filters by themselves? Am I reading too much into it? Does GetGrey even require the use of color filters?

Blue filter glasses are available from the THX website. As little as a week or two ago, they were free.

You can also obtain filters from GetGray for a small fee.

You can also get filters for a few dollars from DVE's website too, and Ovation's as well.

The THX site is down right now (for re-construction). The DVE site is http://www.videoessentials.com/extra_filters.php. The Ovation filters are here http://ovation.stores.yahoo.net/adavfil.html, but are way too expensive ($20 vs. $3 for the DVE set and $1 for the THX "glasses", blue only).

I own AVIA, DVE, and the GetGray Caldisc. I prefer the GetGray (I haven't used the others in over a year).

While this procedure will work for the majority of displays, there are a few that require an ISF technician to achieve the desired results. For example, the current Samsung DLP RPTVs utilize a color coordinate adjustment mode known as "CCA" which color corrects the primary and secondary colors to system specifications. It does this by adding red and green to blue, thus negating the results when using a color filter. As such, it can only be adjusted properly by temporarily disabling the CCA option within the service menu.

Hi, I have a Samsung HLR5064 and it has a ridiculous yellow push. The yellow bar is glaring when I look through the blue filter, and to a lesser extent the green bar. Now, the greyscale has already been calibrated on this set. Does this mean there is a way to decrease the intenisty of the yellow on this display? Thanks.

Avical's DVE user-level video calibration tutorial
I tried using this for my Optoma HD71 Projector.

First on the brightness with the Pluge.

I only see the 4 boxes down the center white to gray and 2 bars on either side can't remember if they represent 2% and 4% ? Anyhow I don't see the outer most black bars like I do or can with my 42" CRT Rear Projection HDTV.

Even when I adjust brightness from lowest to highest I can only see max 2 bars on each outside

When I try and adjust contrast using the same pattern, I'm not sure I see anything.

I don't quite understand what I should look for using the ramp pattern/

What about colour, tint, red, green and blue bias and gain? Very confusing.

When I look at blue first it appears pretty good without any adjustments, red and green were close as well.

Sharpness. I see no difference no matter where I set it from lowest -something to highest so I left at 0 in the middle which was the default

I'm using HDMI cable connected to PS3

I'm buying my first HDTV, a Panasonic TH-PX4280U plasma. Is there really any reason to calibrate anything other than sharpness, brightness, contrast and color (by sight only) for an out-of-box Panny? It looks like the GetGray disk will do all that and more if I need it later. Is GetGray for a video newbie like me?

I would read the instruction manual that you can download off the site and if it makes sense to you then you are probably OK.

As far as eyeballing it goes, that is better than nothing but for the best results you really want to use a meter of some kind. That being said, even for eyeballing the disc is just what you need.

Thanks, jvincent, I'm reading through it now and so far so good. Think I'll try eyeballing it for now. I am definately an audiofool, not a videofool... yet.

Blue filter glasses are available from the THX website. As little as a week or two ago, they were free.No longer. $1.99, plus (at least) $2.50 shipping.

Got me all excited there for a minute, heh.

Thanks, jvincent, I'm reading through it now and so far so good. Think I'll try eyeballing it for now. I am definately an audiofool, not a videofool... yet.Eyeballing it using a calibration disc works a lot better. Without a reference, you are just guessing (and a person's brain can be easily fooled). I don't use meters either, but I wouldn't be without a calibration disc (I have AVIA, DVE, GetGray, and others - I prefer the GetGray disc, it's easier and faster to use).

PS - Thanks for the vote of confidence, I wrote the GetGray "Instructions" (with important editorial input from Scott, = GetGray).

Eyeballing it using a calibration disc works a lot better. Without a reference, you are just guessing (and a person's brain can be easily fooled). I don't use meters either, but I wouldn't be without a calibration disc (I have AVIA, DVE, GetGray, and others - I prefer the GetGray disc, it's easier and faster to use).

PS - Thanks for the vote of confidence, I wrote the GetGray "Instructions" (with important editorial input from Scott, = GetGray).

Hi all, I need some help. First time doing calibration. I just bought the Avia II DVD and the DVE HD Basics (BD). I have a PS3 as my primary DVD player and Blu-Ray player. I have a question about using the Avia DVD. Will I be able to calibrate my hdtv (40xbr4) with the Avia II DVD using the PS3. I just want to calibrate the hdtv with Avia II for regular channels (Cable- sd and hd channels). Can I used the Avia DVD using my ps3 to calibrate my cable input (hdmi)? Can I calibrate any input by using the Avia DVD on my ps3?. I will be using the DVE HD to calibrate my ps3 for blu-ray movies.

Also, do I need anything else to calibrate my TV? I was reading something about blue filters, i have none. I bought these from Amazon. I didn't see any filters in the box. Any help please, thanks.

Eyeballing it using a calibration disc works a lot better. Without a reference, you are just guessing (and a person's brain can be easily fooled). I don't use meters either, but I wouldn't be without a calibration disc (I have AVIA, DVE, GetGray, and others - I prefer the GetGray disc, it's easier and faster to use).

PS - Thanks for the vote of confidence, I wrote the GetGray "Instructions" (with important editorial input from Scott, = GetGray).

Feeling dumb here...

Where are the instructions posted. There are alot of Getgrey threads around here now and I am having trouble pin pointing this. I have the THX glasses on the way. My HD DVE came without filters (well it came with a green filter of all things) and I want to try GetGrey with my new THX glasses on my PZ85.

Thanks!

PS - Is there any thread where a professional calibrator compared results obtained from DVE versus Getgrey? Just curious.

C.

The instructions are downloadable from the website.

http://calibrate.tv/docs/GetGrayCalDiscReadme.zip

The instructions are downloadable from the website.

http://calibrate.tv/docs/GetGrayCalDiscReadme.zip

Ahhh I thought they were some he wrote up special apart from the official docs.

Thanks!

C.

PS - Is there any thread where a professional calibrator compared results obtained from DVE versus Getgrey? Just curiousSomewhere, deep in the original (main) GetGray DVD thread (see signature) I went over how I backed into the patterns on DVE PRO and AVIA PRO to verify to that my patterns were correct. The data coming off of the GetGray DVD is perfectly correct. The YCbCr encoding of the original 8 bit RGB source patterns decodes properly back to the correct RGB (as well as can be done with the colorspace formulas 8 bit rounding errors. You can get more patterns elsewhere, but you cannot get any that are more accurate. If I remember correctly, I found some mpeg compression video noise in AVAI pro solid patterns, those are not on mine or DVE Pro. As for comparing to the consumer versions, my patterns are way better than one of them. Same but more complete and easier to navigate than the other one.

What is important to understand is if the GetGray DVD displays correctly, then a DVD will also. If it does not, you will have the identical errors watching a DVD.

HTH, gotta run...

Somewhere, deep in the original (main) GetGray DVD thread (see signature) I went over how I backed into the patterns on DVE PRO and AVIA PRO to verify to that my patterns were correct. The data coming off of the GetGray DVD is perfectly correct. The YCbCr encoding of the original 8 bit RGB source patterns decodes properly back to the correct RGB (as well as can be done with the colorspace formulas 8 bit rounding errors. You can get more patterns elsewhere, but you cannot get any that are more accurate. If I remember correctly, I found some mpeg compression video noise in AVAI pro solid patterns, those are not on mine or DVE Pro. As for comparing to the consumer versions, my patterns are way better than one of them. Same but more complete and easier to navigate than the other one.

What is important to understand is if the GetGray DVD displays correctly, then a DVD will also. If it does not, you will have the identical errors watching a DVD.

HTH, gotta run...

Thanks for the reply :)

C.

Those with digital displays should run the contrast control up to see if the steps start to blend together. The proper position for contrast is below the point of clipping, i.e. when each bar is distinguishable and/or uniform in color.

On some displays, turning the contrast down will not pull the video out of the clip. This is often an indication that the DVD player is running into its own digital clip. If so, go back to the player's setup menu and turn down its contrast by one click. This will usually eliminate the clip. If not, lower the contrast by another click and so on until every bar is clearly visible. In some cases, the two lightest bars will remain blended together no matter how much the contrast is lowered. In such cases, revert the player to its factory contrast setting.

Eliab, first off this post was incredibly helpful. Thanks. I have a Samsung ln46a630 lcd set. I used the Digital Video Essentials DVD (not blu ray) - played it from a normal DVD player, with component outputs connected to my tv. On this above step, could you explain what you mean by "when each bar is distinguishable and/or uniform in color"? On the top quarter and the bottom quarter of the screen there are ramps (non-stepped). In the middle of the screen there are two stepped ramps, the steps of the upper ramp get brighter from right to left, the steps of the lower ramp get brighter from left to right. So, are we talking about the last few steps in each ramp (the ones that are most white)? what do you mean by "distinguishable"? do you mean that if you turn the contrast all the way up the last few steps (the brightest ones) should be basically the same shade of bright white (i.e., clipped), and as you lower the contrast the second-to-last and third-to-last steps should start to darken so that they have a slightly different shade than the last (brightest white) step? I find it very hard to know exactly when that point is. From contrast setting 95-100 I can tell they're all clipping. Below 75 or 80 I can definitely see different shades in those last three brightest steps. But between 80-95, it looks exactly the same to me I guess.





Adjust the color control (amplitude) so that the two outer blue squares appear close in shade with one another. This may alter the shade of the magenta and cyan squares which will need to be adjusted using the tint/hue control (phase) so that they appear as close in shade with one another as well. There may be a bit of going back and forth before favorable results are achieved.


On this above step, the two outer blue squares (meaning the top right square and the bottom left square) appeared exactly the same shade when looking thru the blue filter (or when i put the tv in "blue only" mode). Changing the color control had no effect whatsoever on this. Any thoughts?

Thanks again.

You're welcome and good luck!

Eliab

I have a panasonic pt ax200u, and I would like to know what is a good calibration DVD for projectors, and is it worth it to have a professional calibration done?

Greetings

Worth is relative. Yes for some people ... no for others. Is an apple worth it? Is a swimming pool worth it? Is an expensive car worth it?

What is the cost of your time worth to learn to do it all yourself and also buy the equipment needed to do this ... versus the cost of hiring a professional to come and do it for you?

If the cost of your time is worth little ... then do it yourself. The Equipment will still cost you money though.

If you value your time more than the cost of getting a professional to do it ...then you have your answer yet again.

I'll second that. GetGray is the best bar none. I feel like pulling my hair out trying to use Avia after using GetGray...

but its not offered in hd. so whats a guy with a blu ray player to do?

I have a panasonic pt ax200u, and I would like to know what is a good calibration DVD for projectors, and is it worth it to have a professional calibration done?

Calibrating a projection system including the audio is definitely worth it.

but its not offered in hd. so whats a guy with a blu ray player to do?

As has been mentioned several times use the AVSHD disc. Alternatively, given a compatible notebook, you could use one of the generators (http://www.spectracal.com/downloads.html).

Avical's DVE user-level video calibration tutorial
I tried using this for my Optoma HD71 Projector.

First on the brightness with the Pluge.

I only see the 4 boxes down the center white to gray and 2 bars on either side can't remember if they represent 2% and 4% ? Anyhow I don't see the outer most black bars like I do or can with my 42" CRT Rear Projection HDTV.

Even when I adjust brightness from lowest to highest I can only see max 2 bars on each outside

When I try and adjust contrast using the same pattern, I'm not sure I see anything.

I don't quite understand what I should look for using the ramp pattern/

What about colour, tint, red, green and blue bias and gain? Very confusing.

When I look at blue first it appears pretty good without any adjustments, red and green were close as well.

Sharpness. I see no difference no matter where I set it from lowest -something to highest so I left at 0 in the middle which was the default

I'm using HDMI cable connected to PS3
Brightness: Depending on the source, you sometimes won't see the darker outside bar. So you have to use the next darkest bar. Turn down darkness until you don't see the dark bar (but still see the lightest bar). Then, turn brightness back up until you just see the dark bar. You should see the lightest bar clearly, and barely see the darker bar.

Color: Check with the blue filter first. If you're using the DVE color bar test, just make sure all the blue squares are the same shade of blue.

Tint: Using the same blue filter and color bar test make sure the inside boxes at the top are the same shade as the inside boxes at the bottom. If you perform both functions right...all the boxes should look the same shade, for the most part.

Then check with the red filter. If the red filter shows the inside boxes a brighter shade than the background, that means red is saturated too high. It is recommended to lower brightness down to the point where the inside boxes are close to the same shade as the background. This will probably mean re-adjusting tint (by making sure the box at top is same shade as box on bottom).

Sharpness: If you see no difference, you probably don't need to turn sharpness up at all. The DVE does a good job explaining why "sharpness" is not necessary in most TVs.

I have a new panasonic tc-p50s1 plasama. I am about 30 hours into it, leaving settings low and avoiding bars/static images for the first 100 hours.

I want to run a dvd to calibrate it after the 100 hours are up. I do not yet have a Blu-Ray player, still using a standard dvd player.

I am a little confused as to which calibration dvd to get. The GetGray one will be compatible with my set, yes? i have heard bad stuff about the Digital Video Essentials one, it being confusing.

For someone who has never had an HD TV before (Me), if I pay $25 for the GetGray dvd, will it be pretty simple and easy for me to get the TV calibrated? I am not THAT nit-picky with PQ, so I do not want to pay hundreds of dollars for a professional calibration, but I am certainly willing to shell out $25 to make my plasma look better.

Thanks.

Greetings

DVE is only confusing if you do not know how to read or follow instructions in spoken english.

regards

I do not yet have a Blu-Ray player, still using a standard dvd player.
I am a little confused as to which calibration dvd to get. ... i have heard bad stuff about the Digital Video Essentials one, it being confusing.

If you plan on going to Blu-ray you should just use the THX patterns on a THX mastered DVD until you get a Blu-ray and then get the HD DVE (Blu) or the Spears & Munsil disc. If you're sticking with DVD then use the SD DVE. Do not try to use GetGray unless you have no trouble reading and understanding the manual.

What you've heard about DVE is (or should be) with regard to navigation when doing pro calibration. It's not relevant when you're making adjustents by eye.

Sounds good, thanks.

How important is it to use the glasses/filters. If I get a THX disc from netflix, it obviously won't have them.

How important is it to use the glasses/filters. If I get a THX disc from netflix, it obviously won't have them.

In this specific case I'd suggest you review settings posted in the relevant thread and adjust color/tint per consensus. The most important thing you can do at this point is adjust brightness/constrast for your viewing environment(s). The Spears & Munsil articles take some pain to explain the issues and don't require their disc (although I'd recommend it) to be helpful.