cyviz is the company but the xed.1 is their older model that has been discontinued. It uses 2 VGA Inouts, as opposed to the new version which uses 1 input & 2 outout's all DVI

Thanks for the info. Looks good, with the obvious advantage that you are not limited to blending only material that can be played using VLC. However, assuming the price is similar to the xpo.1 at $11,000 US, are we not moving away from the 'cheap' solution that was envisaged at the start of the thread? :rolleyes: :)

Ben

the price is actually quoted to me so far, with No haggling yet of $2500

Hi Ken,

Great progress. I would like to thank you for all the effort and energy you are putting into this. My HT is not ready yet, and it looks that by the time it will be ready, there would be a myriad of blending solutions available... very very cool.

I have two questions regarding the xed unit:

1. Do you need one or two units?
2. Does it take DVI-D in?

Regards - Andres

You only need one unit, and it takes VGA in, the xpo (newer version) takes DVI but I think that is $12,000. This unit is gonan be approx $2k, or less if we get more than 15 -20 I think we can get it for less, as it is a discontinued device.

the xpo is used mainly for 3D applications, if you read the spec's on the site it's very cool! but way to pricey

Does anyone have th elink for the Phillips test pattern generator? I woul like to make a stab this week at a rough calibration of my 2nd PJ which is horribly setup right now. Also I have to redo the astig on it to try & match the other, which is nailed doen perfect right now.

& again

LOOKING for someone in the Toronto region to come over to the house 1 day to help me get this whole mess setup lying on the floor setup better. etc etc, beer & pizza in it!

http://www.mooneyass.com/testpatterns/

thx

OK Phase 2

What I did tonight

1) Tighter convergence, as tight as I could get it with the piss poor setup I have right now, non square to the screen PJ's and screen at an angle as it is sitting on the floor.

2) A stab at colour calibration. Doing this I was able to get a perfect blend on my green & Red, but it is the Blue that is the problem, and it is my PJ not the blender that is at fault here. The blender really made the green & red seamless, OH Joy!!!
3) Used the blender software to compensate for the difference in the blue output from the 2 PJ's

4) Adjusted the Gamma correctly in the xed.1, did not do this last night, Big necessity

5) Discovered that Blue Focus Tracking is IMPORTANT as Well!! Dooohh!!

6) Took some pictures

Still to do

1) Astig on PJ#2 It sucks
2) Proper calibration of both PJ's
3) Mount the screen & PJ's properly on wall & ceiling

Run tests again

4) Negotiate price down to $1500 for the xed.1 I WANT ONE!!!!
5) Buy another XG110LC to go with the 1 I bought today
6) Sell the 2 Non LC XG's to pay for the one above
7) Lie to the wife about another PJ coming into the house
5) Setup a higher resolution to make a full 2.35:1 signal. Right now it is 2176x1024 or 2.125:1 So I need to create a custom resolution of 2406x1024 which with the 15% overlap is 2831x1024 or (1415x1024) times 2 - 15% overlap.

Run tests again! this is fun, but boy I need to get a life!! ;)

Yes, and also check to see how well it handels motion. Sharpness and the ability to handle motion is two very important things to look for once the signal is super processed and split, and then put back together on the screen.


Mike I checked per your suggestion. No motion problems at all. I do find the sharpness to be less than before but the screen is 30% bigger & the image is 50% than I used to run. This is only really noticable when comparing a DVD to a HD movie. The 5th Element 720p version looked sweet.

one thing that is kinda cool, is that even a DVD really starts to take on a Film look & Feel about it. It must be the size & aspect ratio. All in all, it is way to cool!!

:)

Ken./

Ken, how many more blending solutions are you going to pull out of your hat? Seriously, I'm swamped following your efforts. Thanks.

Until I can find one that works as good as the Zilla for under $1000 ;)

though this xed.1 is coming mighty close. I'd still like to try it with a couple of Light Cannons to test the inbuilt overlap feature out the DVI Ports, as I don't have any moome cards installed in my PJ's

I have a Moome external here with your name on it, and some Extrons to drive the lines. That's one, who has another?

A LC Ken?

C'mon spill it! What type, what condition?

Yonex,

can you please do a screenshot that shows a closeup of the are where the blend begins ?
I would like to see how good you managed to get small letters in the overlap zone, so something like the Fullscreen pattern from the Nokia Test or the Desktop would be cool.

I would suppose that there has to be some softening in the blend zone, but would like to get an idea how much.

Kudos to you for your continued efforts - this looks very promising :)

Oliver

A LC Ken?

C'mon spill it! What type, what condition?

the 110 from Videogon, (Thx Sandy) Hopefully in pretty good shape, at least the tubes are in better shape than mine as you can tell from my screen shots lol!!!

K./

Yonex,

can you please do a screenshot that shows a closeup of the are where the blend begins ?
I would like to see how good you managed to get small letters in the overlap zone, so something like the Fullscreen pattern from the Nokia Test or the Desktop would be cool.

I would suppose that there has to be some softening in the blend zone, but would like to get an idea how much.

Kudos to you for your continued efforts - this looks very promising :)

Oliver


Will do tonight

Congrats Ken.

Is the one on the left in the blend your primary XG (well, until the LC arrives..)? It's a bit hard to tell..

Are you running dual Moome cards? Or does the blend unit output Analog (DVI-I)?

Which solution has more control? This blending box or the VLC plugin?

I still think a "driver level" PC software solution is the holy grail for tight-arses (not hardware, and not a media player). Pity my room is only 3m wide....and I only have one XG LC...

Keep it up, you might earn yourself a steak dinner :)

Ken,

How does this box handle multiple inputs? Does it have memory slots to handle 60 and 72hz for instance? Or multiple input devices (from a switcher)?

Good question, I don;t know I guess I should check the memory thingy. The specs are as foolows for refresh etc:

Max pixel rate 140 MHz (1024 x 768 @ 120 Hz, 1280 x 1024 @ 75 Hz)
• Vertical Scan: 60 - 120 Hz
• Horizontal scan: 15-110 KHz

So 72 hz is not a problem. But the unit has one memoryt slot from what I can see.

Will do tonight

That's the spirit :)

I have a slow PC with a Radeon 9550 so for trying this out I'd need a new processor/mobo combo and a new graphics adapter I guess.

Marc W also sent me some settings to get Zoomplayer to run properly and we concluded that a 1700 Celeron does not cut it anymore, too bad.

Right now projector-wise I have a few options to try a stack, so I hope your pictures will encourage me :)

Oliver

Any chance you could post the users manual?

All the documentation I have it at:

http://www.cyviz.com/xed1.htm

Br Ken./

That's the spirit :)

I have a slow PC with a Radeon 9550 so for trying this out I'd need a new processor/mobo combo and a new graphics adapter I guess.

Marc W also sent me some settings to get Zoomplayer to run properly and we concluded that a 1700 Celeron does not cut it anymore, too bad.

Right now projector-wise I have a few options to try a stack, so I hope your pictures will encourage me :)

Oliver


Here is the picture you requested, smack in the middle of the blend zone

Here is the picture you requested, smack in the middle of the blend zone

Have you got a pic with all tubes converged, and more front on? It's still difficult to see how sharp the blendzone is from previous pic... maybe circle it for us :)

will do, I'll take some tommorow, but basically that is a shot of the middle of the screen, not just the blend zone the blending is right where thext is on the right the far laft and right are non blended zones

Ken,

thanks for that picture I am very impressed.
I can see a hint of fuzziness in some letters which is to be expected given that you are overlaying one green tube over the other, but the effect is so small that now I have to go and try this with two of my PG extras :)

Did you have two XG's with the more advanced point/zone convergence that does small/middle/big areas and did you use this feature a lot ?

Oliver

Congrats Ken.

Is the one on the left in the blend your primary XG (well, until the LC arrives..)? It's a bit hard to tell..

Are you running dual Moome cards? Or does the blend unit output Analog (DVI-I)?

Which solution has more control? This blending box or the VLC plugin?

I still think a "driver level" PC software solution is the holy grail for tight-arses (not hardware, and not a media player). Pity my room is only 3m wide....and I only have one XG LC...

Keep it up, you might earn yourself a steak dinner :)

!) the primary PJ is th eone of the right. But right now it is only sharper not better than the other coz the Astig is better. the other one has better tubes though.

2) No moome cards, all via VGA output from the xed.1

3) Looks like there maybe more options in the VLC Plugin, but the xed.1 software does realtime adjustments. But I don;t know if the OpenGL adjustments in the Plugin are all relevant for an external blender.

4) I agree, though I think with 2 external scalers you miht be able to use the xed.1 with any source

Can't wait for the LC to arrive, is it gonna blow my mind Mark?

Ken,

thanks for that picture I am very impressed.
I can see a hint of fuzziness in some letters which is to be expected given that you are overlaying one green tube over the other, but the effect is so small that now I have to go and try this with two of my PG extras :)

Did you have two XG's with the more advanced point/zone convergence that does small/middle/big areas and did you use this feature a lot ?


No point convergence used yet, just pysical setup side-by-side and a rough convergence using POSITION to move the image. The convergence can get a lot better, and if the ASTIG is done on the 2nd PJ, it will remove the fuzziness. That is what I achieved with a very piss-poor setup.

No point convergence used yet, just pysical setup side-by-side and a rough convergence using POSITION to move the image. The convergence can get a lot better, and if the ASTIG is done on the 2nd PJ, it will remove the fuzziness. That is what I achieved with a very piss-poor setup.

Man, you got me thinking right now :)
But where will I get a second 10PG with pristine tubes if it all works out ? :)

sell it & buy 2 XG's/PG's. You don't need the 9" tubes with a blend

sell it & buy 2 XG's/PG's. You don't need the 9" tubes with a blend

Well,

I have thought about that, too but I like my 10PG so much, can't really imagine to part with it...
I did some preliminary testing tonight with two extras and it seems to be important to get some nicely matched units and it is also very important that they have similar drifting behaviour during warmup so that they do not make the overlap area fuzzy - not an easy thing to do.

And: Even with two (unmodded) PG extras the noise was much more than I could take - I guess we can never have it all :)

Well hushboxes can fix the noise, and cooling mods stop the drift, so we can have it all - it just takes a lot of space and work :)

cyviz is the company but the xed.1 is their older model that has been discontinued. It uses 2 VGA Inouts, as opposed to the new version which uses 1 input & 2 outout's all DVI

Ken,

THANK YOU for all your work. Great job, you da man!

So obviously even though the xed.1 has 2 in's and 2 out's you only need to use 1 in and the box splits and blends, right?

What are your thoughts on the newer DVI capable unit? I suppose if it is indeed DVI-D and it does the splitting/blending in the digital domain it eliminates a D/A conversion which might prove better quality/sharper.

Paul

3) Looks like there maybe more options in the VLC Plugin, but the xed.1 software does realtime adjustments. But I don;t know if the OpenGL adjustments in the Plugin are all relevant for an external blender.

4) I agree, though I think with 2 external scalers you miht be able to use the xed.1 with any source



Do I have this right?

VLC = free. But you can't use TheaterTek or WinDVD. PLUS: lots of controls (but not real time)

xed.1 = $2,500 (lower with possible group buy) But you can use any source that outputs (or can be converted to) VGA. PLUS: real time adjustments, easy set up.

What else?

Thanks again,

Paul

Do I have this right?

VLC = free. But you can't use TheaterTek or WinDVD. PLUS: lots of controls (but not real time)

xed.1 = $2,500 (lower with possible group buy) But you can use any source that outputs (or can be converted to) VGA. PLUS: real time adjustments, easy set up.

What else?

Thanks again,

Paul

That about sums it up

Ken,

THANK YOU for all your work. Great job, you da man!

So obviously even though the xed.1 has 2 in's and 2 out's you only need to use 1 in and the box splits and blends, right?

What are your thoughts on the newer DVI capable unit? I suppose if it is indeed DVI-D and it does the splitting/blending in the digital domain it eliminates a D/A conversion which might prove better quality/sharper.

Paul

No you need to send it an already Split signal hence the use of HTPC video card. So if you use a dual head Vid Card or a couple of scalers, you can use it. The newer cyviz model also does the splliting, but it is $12k

Well hushboxes can fix the noise, and cooling mods stop the drift, so we can have it all - it just takes a lot of space and work :)

And better linearity than I got on my two Pg's on the first try.

With maximized phosphor usage the linearity on the two extras I use is a bit jumpy - you never notice it with one projector but it is VERY evident when trying to converge the outermost portion of the raster of projector 1 to projector 2.

If this area isn't almost perfect the picture goes from very crisp to fuzzy to crisp again - all in the screen middle where it hurts the most.

Maybe the XG's are really better suited to this endeavour....

No you need to send it an already Split signal hence the use of HTPC video card. So if you use a dual head Vid Card or a couple of scalers, you can use it. The newer cyviz model also does the splliting, but it is $12k

So I could for example use a scaler like the Lumagen and input its signal into an Extron switcher and then I go into the Cyviz with two outputs ?

Does not sound too hard to do and would allow us to watch everything out there.

Is there a setting that allows the device to output negtive sync? Or does it perform its adjustments and output the sync sent to it? Interested in the box but since I've got a Barco I need to think about potential sync issues to fix.

I'll check for you

OK, I moved the Pj's & the screen to a better part of the basement. Lesson learnt, Plastic moving men you buy from Walmart are a great thing!

Also, it's easier with 2 to do a blend.

So what have I done tonight

1) Redid the G2 on PJ 1
2) Redid the Astig & focus on PJ 1 (it is sweet now)
3) Redid the convergence from scratch for both

Took some quick photos

Next

4) Redo the G2 on PJ 2 (about to start in 5 mins)
5) Redo white balnace on both
6) take some more pictures

The big difference I see left is the colour balance, the blending is fantastic, but the colour Difference between the 2 PJ's os Huge. I can not understate enough How important Coluor matching is to get a good seemless blend.

If not The blend take son a slight Rainbow type of effect, like a Mini Colour shift, with R,G,B in the middle. Faint, but there.

After I redo the colour I will post some more pictures.

K./

OK, Much better now. Though I had to judge the colour calibration by eye, so not as good as it should be. But, it makes a hug difference when you get it closer.

So some screen shots after G2's , colour (rough cali)

All I can say is wow! is is very cool, and I would be extremely happy & content with the xed.1, it is very good.

Some screen shots from tonight.

One more pic.

Ken,

those screenshots are your best yet, big improvements !
Now where do I get two XG LC's to do this ;)

So is it possible to feed the same picture to both inputs of the blender or do you have to send one half to input 1 and the other half to input 2 ? Obviously the first option would be preferred with a scaler while the second one limits the blending to PC solutions if the price is to be kept in check. Do you already use all of the phosphor height of your XG's or are you using a more conservative throw as of now ?

And what kind of resolution is it you're using ?

Oliver

1) Don't know if I had a splliter box I could try it.
2) Not all the phospher, as I have more wear on my greens than R or B. Plus I found that id you try to push to hard to the edges, you get little funky squiggles etc at the end of the lines. As we are trying to blend those araes, it's even more important that a Regular setup to have perfect edges. So I gave myself some spare room to make sure there were the least amount of issues possible.

For sure someone with more time than I had this weekend, and more patience, can absolutely max the Phosher usage. Also, it's best to have tubes on both that are evenly worn.

I am using 2256x1024 Not quite 2.35, but easier to setup on the PC. It is a 12% blend zone. I could use 10% or less even I was being conservative to start. A 2.35:1 would be

2406x1024 Or equivilant to a 156 Pixel blend zone or only 6%, it can be done, that was what I did 1st. Probably slightly tougher. This is more important in the overlap setup than the blending setup as well.

Kudos, Ken.

DSC2117 has some serious "pop." The separation between the foreground and the background is distinct yet natural; this separation and the obvious resolution of the background detail combines, in my eye, to give that much sought after "3-D" look. I'm sort of amazed that it came through in the picture.

DSC2119 is a perfect example of the sort of scene that would choke the nVidia solution that I'm using; there would be a visible brightness band in both the white and the blue areas, dead in the middle of the image. Can you see any flaws in the XED1 blend?

It looks like the advantages that the NEC AC XGs have over the AC Marquees just compound in a blending situation. I thought that sidestepping the bottleneck of vertical resolution as a function of phosphor height and dropping the refresh rate to 48hz would clear up any issues of image resolution at the screen. But it appears those color filtered and sharper HD-144s combined with the sharper P16 tubes really do give an edge to the final image on the screen. Congratulations, that is a mind-blowing image.

Are you seeing scan lines anywhere on the screen?

Oh, and how do I get my hands on one of these?

Kudos, Ken.

DSC2117 has some serious "pop." The separation between the foreground and the background is distinct yet natural; this separation and the obvious resolution of the background detail combines, in my eye, to give that much sought after "3-D" look. I'm sort of amazed that it came through in the picture.

DSC2119 is a perfect example of the sort of scene that would choke the nVidia solution that I'm using; there would be a visible brightness band in both the white and the blue areas, dead in the middle of the image. Can you see any flaws in the XED1 blend?

It looks like the advantages that the NEC AC XGs have over the AC Marquees just compound in a blending situation. I thought that sidestepping the bottleneck of vertical resolution as a function of phosphor height and dropping the refresh rate to 48hz would clear up any issues of image resolution at the screen. But it appears those color filtered and sharper HD-144s combined with the sharper P16 tubes really do give an edge to the final image on the screen. Congratulations, that is a mind-blowing image.

Are you seeing scan lines anywhere on the screen?

Oh, and how do I get my hands on one of these?

1) Flaws: I still have not done a good White Balance. In addition to get a better blend you need to use Bright Uniformity & White Uniformity. I can still see a slight yellow on one side of the blend caused by the Colour Mismath, as it was only done by eye. It is the most important thing I think to get a perfcet blend.

I tested this by blaniking one PJ, and it disappears so it is caused by the difference White Balance between the 2 PJ's.

2) I find that the blend zone is ever so slightly darker, hard to see but I have been looking for a week now, so I can see it if I look hard. I think I can cure this with good White Balnce, and playing with the color offsets in the Edgemaster tool. The tool has loads of seetings & I am just sliding things willy nilly to see what they do. I think with some proper experimentation a good FAQ could be written to make it easier for the next person.

3) The xed.1 it seems to be is obviously able to get 98% of the effcet from the Zilla at least from a PC. The extra 2% takes time & proper calibration via sensors etc I don't have here.

4) Another set of eyes to help would be nice, mine are going googly

5) Scanlines, I'll check, but it looks like it resolves the 1024 lines no problem
6) Availability: if a min of 10 people want oone, I think we can get it for about $2k + shipping etc with a powerbuy. Someone in the US is probably better to receive them to reduce Taxes etc if a PowerBuy is organised

Feel free anyone ro suggest a Movie & scene you would liek to see. If I have it I will do the screenshot for you.

Ken./

Ken,

....
So is it possible to feed the same picture to both inputs of the blender or do you have to send one half to input 1 and the other half to input 2 ? ......

Oliver

From the "Edgemaster" quick guide .................

In order to take advantage of the advanced algorithms of the xêd.1/xpo.2 you need a signal source capable of generating images with overlap. For a computer this means that the operating system needs to natively support overlap.

:(

1) Flaws: I still have not done a good White Balance. In addition to get a better blend you need to use Bright Uniformity & White Uniformity. I can still see a slight yellow on one side of the blend caused by the Colour Mismath, as it was only done by eye. It is the most important thing I think to get a perfcet blend.

I tested this by blaniking one PJ, and it disappears so it is caused by the difference White Balance between the 2 PJ's.


Agreed, in my BlendZilla setup, matched grey scales and colour balance are critical.... very very important.

Feel free anyone ro suggest a Movie & scene you would liek to see. If I have it I will do the screenshot for you.

Ken./

The Matrix when they are in the white construct.. this really tests the blend.

And how about any scene from the Incredibles or Finding Nemo, I'll try and duplicate your screenshots. :)

Feel free anyone ro suggest a Movie & scene you would liek to see. If I have it I will do the screenshot for you.

Ken./

Hi Ken,

I would like to see the white Pixar screen with the lamp that I showed in one of my screenshots earlier.

Thanks,
Ben

Will do. I am in San Diego tonight, will be back home Wednesday Morning, so wednesday evening for the new screenshots.

K./

Agreed, in my BlendZilla setup, matched grey scales and colour balance are critical.... very very important.


Your Dead right Gino. Thi is what i am lacking right now, as i am trying to do everything by eye. Wish Ben was here with his Colour analyser!! Ben we need you ;)

New pictures upload in the other thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=715997

Yonexsp have you had an opportunity to check the outputted sync, positive or negative? Thanks,
Grady

Nice work Yonexsp.
But let me understand this.
1. You cannot simply output a scaler into this device, but have to input two, already split signals. NOT just two full frame signals, is that correct.
2. And did I read that THeatertek won't work with this solution?
3. If #1 is correct, how will you display anything that doesn't come from the HTPC?? ie HD sources.

Thanks,

Terry

Nice work Yonexsp.
But let me understand this.
1. You cannot simply output a scaler into this device, but have to input two, already split signals. NOT just two full frame signals, is that correct.
2. And did I read that THeatertek won't work with this solution?
3. If #1 is correct, how will you display anything that doesn't come from the HTPC?? ie HD sources.

Thanks,

Terry


Answer

1) Correct
2) Wrong, I am using TT2.2 with FFdshow & LimitedSharpen sweet!
3) BlackMagic Design DeckLink HD Capture card supports component & HD SDI $MSRP $995http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/hd/

Yonexsp have you had an opportunity to check the outputted sync, positive or negative? Thanks,
Grady

What ever you send it in sends out

latest screen shot, same as in the other thread. As I said there, time to Piss or get off the pot. It's time to find out if anyone is interesetd in buying one.

So, as I understand it, this will take a pretty good HTPC, plus the blender and an input card for HD. Total cost for the hardware about $4K plus cables. Not bad considering the alternatives if you are in the market for a very large 2.35 screen.

Terry

My HTPC is a piece O'crap worth no more than $600 with the new Video Card, so I don't think you need spend that much. If you want the latest & greatest for games your figure is probably right, Ohhhh Imagine Half-Life 2 on this thing. I can,, I played it!!!

One word! Blimey! scared the crap out of me! 2.35:1 10ft screen was a bit'much for me lol!!!

Im just waiting for my TWO BArco 1209s units I bought last week to arrive, then I intend to get back to blending and it looks like I will give the VLC software a go...............

I like many others have spent WAY too long trying the nvidia system which could work but only if they update the drivers which they just dont seem to want to do.......

the two 1209s are here, and now both up and running.

I tried for the LAST TIME Nvidia - I cant add custom resolutions when in Horizontal span mode, I can add them in clone mode but cant them use them in H Span......

change the overlap and it changes the overall resolution..........

You end up in circles and my brain is fried!


SO Nvidia is even difficult to get just the overlap running correctly........


SO - VLC will be my next attempt. and soon.......

Where did you disappear to Andy? I thought you got it working and were in blending nirvana, too busy to post anymore :)

So is the blackmagic card confirmed to work with the setup?

HI GIno,

I do 70% of my work in the 5 months at this time of year.........

Once I found the 1209s pair I stopped work on what I was doing........

Very busy at the mo, but I will get this done now, New tubes are also on the way.........

Who knows maybe I will still end up with Blendzilla

(Just put that in to keep Tim awake!)

So is the blackmagic card confirmed to work with the setup?

Im thinking of buying this card, DeckLink HD Studio (http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/hd/) , and writing software to blend it. the blackmagic cards support directshow.

This is looking to be my alternative to the price inhibitive blendzilla.

Luke! that would be cool! That was the original intent to get a Developer to develop a DirectX Blender. Most are stuck using VLC, but it has no flexibility. A Native solution would be great. The overlap is taken care of by NVidia so just the blending required.

K./

Im thinking of buying this card, DeckLink HD Studio (http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/hd/) , and writing software to blend it. the blackmagic cards support directshow.

This is looking to be my alternative to the price inhibitive blendzilla.

I love how nonchalant this post sounds. :)

See also:

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

Definitely low cost ... HD capture card

Im thinking of buying this card, DeckLink HD Studio (http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/hd/) , and writing software to blend it. the blackmagic cards support directshow.

This is looking to be my alternative to the price inhibitive blendzilla.

Just noticed that this card also has analog input (see the Connection Diagram (http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/connections/index.asp?prodID=18)). This would really expand the usage of this solution. Of course and HD-SDI modded source would keep the signal digital until the output of the video card.

See also:

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

Definitely low cost ... HD capture card

I don't see reference to weather this HDMI capture handle protected content... I'm guessing not...unfortunately...

I also wonder if that HDMI input card is HDCP compliant, and if it has DirectShow filters/drivers. If so, at $250, this would appear to make the computer-based blending both cheap and easy. Assuming the input to the capture cards is 1080i60, though, I'm wondering how/where film source material could be deinterlaced. I suppose, if the input were 1080p24 or some multiple, this would be an afterthought, but I don't think any of the current players support p24 outputs.

If this does work, though, it cuts the cost proposition considerably. Which I think is important, because few want to pay the $16k for the BlendZilla, and there didn't seem to be a great deal of interest in Ken's $2k Cyviz box. At $250 for HDMI in vs $3000 for a HD-DVD/HD-SDI mod/Decklink Extreme combination the computer option is getting cheaper by the day.

..edit.. This could be a job for a HDCP scrubber, like the one Moome made. I think it was HDMI/HDCP in, DVI out. A DVI to HDCP cable, then, would leave the quality issue in the hands of the blending software and the DACs in the video card.

A Native solution would be great. The overlap is taken care of by NVidia so just the blending required.
If I'm not mistaken, blending has to be done AFTER the overlap and as NVidia is last in the chain, a DirectX plugin is before and thus has to do both the overlap AND the blend.

Henrik

if that is the case, FFdshow would not work? No?

Are we talking decoder or quadro driver?
Of cause the decoder comes first (before Ffdshow), but I thought that the quadro driver came last in the chain....right?

Henrik

If I'm not mistaken, blending has to be done AFTER the overlap and as NVidia is last in the chain, a DirectX plugin is before and thus has to do both the overlap AND the blend.

Henrik

if the card supports directshow then overlap and blend are not really any great hurdle. The maths is logical and well documented.

Ill have a go with some SD content. if it works ok, then it should work with a HD directshow card, given a strong enough machine.

edit: Im going to call Blackmagic and see if they will send me a card. :cool:

These HDMI input cards are what everyone has been saying will not be readily available, at least for a long time. What has put me off PC blending slightly is the inability to use external HD video sources, but these cards appear to offer us some hope. Or have I missed something? An internal BD or HD DVD or HDD drive would still be part of the solution, but I think most would want to use external sources, too.

Hopeful Nick

All the HDLink cards support DirectShow, and I have downloaded the Directshow SDK docs off their website that shows how to write code to interface with the cards. It looks interesting.

Hi Luke,

I didn't know that the HDMI card was part of the HDLink line. If you have an HD-SDI source and are serious about coding a blending function in DirectShow, I can send you a Decklink HD Extreme card. Blackmagic has a developer's mailing list, and an archive of said list on their site. There was a recent topic requesting the Blackmagic 5.7 drivers for the HDMI card, so I'm not sure if the drivers have been released yet - but, this makes sense, because the card hasn't been officially released yet.

Would you be able to write a DirectShow source filter for VLC? If so, and if the filter would interface with the HDMI card, I think it would be a major step forward and downward in price for the PC blending effort. Further, I think we're getting closer to the possibility of a cheap and dedicated PC-based blending "appliance" that will take an industry standard video input and drive two blended projectors.

I'll contribute what I can to your efforts, in terms equipment and in offsetting development costs.

Hi Luke,

I didn't know that the HDMI card was part of the HDLink line. If you have an HD-SDI source and are serious about coding a blending function in DirectShow, I can send you a Decklink HD Extreme card. Blackmagic has a developer's mailing list, and an archive of said list on their site. There was a recent topic requesting the Blackmagic 5.7 drivers for the HDMI card, so I'm not sure if the drivers have been released yet - but, this makes sense, because the card hasn't been officially released yet.

Would you be able to write a DirectShow source filter for VLC? If so, and if the filter would interface with the HDMI card, I think it would be a major step forward and downward in price for the PC blending effort. Further, I think we're getting closer to the possibility of a cheap and dedicated PC-based blending "appliance" that will take an industry standard video input and drive two blended projectors.

I'll contribute what I can to your efforts, in terms equipment and in offsetting development costs.

1. I dont have an hd-sdi source, however I could use the analog HD input. If it uses the same interface i dont see this as a problem.

2. I havent seen VLC, but i would prefer to write a filter in my own player at first, and then maybe look at VLC.

VLC won;t work as it is OpenGL

Luke: you have a PM.

Ken: If you take a look in the VLC options, the program has the ability to capture a video stream from a DirectShow source, though you're right, the processing in VLC uses OpenGL. I'm pretty sure that's how VLC was able to take video off of a IEEE1394/FireWire connection, back when people were (are) capturing/displaying transport streams from cable boxes before 5C flags came into effect. I also think people were using this functionality with early TV tuners (like the ATI All-in-Wonder cards) to view OTA stuff. But I'm probably wrong; I think M. Cocquebert or Luke would be better able to settle the issue.

Did you decide to keep the Cyvix Box? I'd imagine that a properly primed HDMI signal into the $250 Intensity card would provide a nice front-end to the nVidia overlap / Cyvix blend solution. All you would need is a simple full screen capture/display program, maybe with a good IVTC implementation in the mix somewhere, and you'd have yourself a pretty future-proof blend set-up. And about $13k in your pocket, compared to the other options out there.

I'm still kind of interested in the HD-SDI angle, but at $250 for the Decklink Intensity card versus $1500 for a one-trick HD-SDI modification and a $1000 Decklink Extreme card, I think most CRTers would opt for the former rather than the latter. Maybe as more people figure out how to slap a HD-SDI serializer onto that Broadcom chip the price will come down, but I don't know that the advantages of SDI outweigh the cost-benefit and convenience of HDMI. Also, I don't know how long that particular "loop-hole" will stay open, but HDMI seems to be around for at least the forseeable future.

ok,

my thoughts:

My whole aim is to run HD-DVD on 2 blended projectors for awesome viewing pleasure.

It appears you can now install the toshiba drive into a PC, and watch HD-DVD using Win-DVD 8.

So If I were to write my own HD Player that supports blending, do I need to buy the PureVideoHD codecs off NVidia for many $$ and incorporate them?

love to get a copy of Win-DVD 8, but I understand it is only the Japanese version that supports HD DVD

The Japanese WinDVD site states:
"HDCP（High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection）
COPP（Certified Output Protection Protocol）"

Just guessing, but doesn't that indicate a problem for us CRT owners?

Henrik

The Japanese WinDVD site states:
"HDCP（High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection）
COPP（Certified Output Protection Protocol）"

Just guessing, but doesn't that indicate a problem for us CRT owners?

Henrik

you need a HDCP compliant DVI(or HDMI)-RGBHV Converter.

I was working on the DirectShow Blender last night. Its a bit harder to setup because Microsoft has dropped DirectShow from the DirectX Platform.

The next gen video system is based off Media Foundation which will be used in Vista.

NOTE: ill start another thread for my development!

i started a thread with screenshots here

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=733132

YONEXSP... where have you ended up on the blending quest?

I finished my efforts. The only thing I was going to try next was a GIF overlay or something with FFDshow. But due to the lack of interest on the forum I went back to my real life ;)

I found, everyone is interested as long as the solution is free. To be fair the VLC solution is really good, but your stuck with VLC and it's playback for everything.

K./

Pauls paper makes a great Requirement Specification to start with

http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/~pbourke/colour/edgeblend/Did anyone save a local copy of this great blending info. The link is dead now.

I finished my efforts. The only thing I was going to try next was a GIF overlay or something with FFDshow. But due to the lack of interest on the forum I went back to my real life ;)

I found, everyone is interested as long as the solution is free. To be fair the VLC solution is really good, but your stuck with VLC and it's playback for everything.

K./

quick question though for the VLC stuff. Using vlc's wall feature(not blending but just simple splitting) on single monitor, the splitted image is really good as if it appears as one image. So now, since I don't have a projector, when vlc is used with the 2 projectors, how would the stitching in the middle look like as compared to the 15% blending?

Clarence/Cliff,

You might want to try "Take me back" feature from archive.org :D
Unfortunately, that website if blocked from where I'm working right now. I can access is at home and do use it regularly. ;)

(not blending but just simple splitting)...
...the splitted image is really good as if it appears as one image. So now, since I don't have a projector, when vlc is used with the 2 projectors, how would the stitching in the middle look like as compared to the 15% blending?Trying to merge 2 split images without a blend will be about as effective as trying to push two sheets of drywall close together... no matter how you try, you won't be able to hide the seam without tape and mud.

Thanks for the archive.org suggestion, but I get "R o b o t f i l t e r
Sorry, some robots are filtered from this site....
This filtering is not intended to restrict your enjoyment of this site. There is a very large amount of data contained within and robots who attempt to copy the whole site adversely affect our bandwidth and wallet."

but I googled +pbourke +edgeblend and found it on another site:
http://local.wasp.uwa.edu.au/~pbourke/texture_colour/edgeblend/

Did anyone save a local copy of this great blending info. The link is dead now.


I have his email address somewhere if you want it? He can probably email you a copy I'm sure

i started a thread with screenshots here

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=733132
I saw your screenshots and they're very cool. However, I didn't see any link to tools/filters/apps needed to the blending. Can you please post it?

I have read this thread with great interest, as I'm trying to use three projectors left from my company's former driving simulator to make a video wall roughtly 7x2 meters (22' x 6.5') size (just for the fun of it).

Now I can't seem to get the settings in Panoramix right. It seems the size generated video output windows is related to the size of my input. This means that if I for example input a 4:3 narrow photo I get three windows with a ratio of roughly 1.33:3 (4:9). This is strange, the expected behaviour in this case would be that the photo fills the center projector, faded in the edges, and that I would get just a little of the image on the side projectors.

What is the right way to set this up? I want to have the projectors permanently fixed to give me a 10:3 ratio, and the result of showing more narrow content should be black borders on the sides.

I'm happy for any help I can get!
//Swedish newbie

Driving simulator?

Now I can't seem to get the settings in Panoramix right. It seems the size generated video output windows is related to the size of my input. This means that if I for example input a 4:3 narrow photo I get three windows with a ratio of roughly 1.33:3 (4:9). This is strange, the expected behaviour in this case would be that the photo fills the center projector, faded in the edges, and that I would get just a little of the image on the side projectors.


I've been blending with VLC for years (literally), but I don't know of anyone who's used more than two projectors in this configuration so you might be the first to try with three!

First of all, which VLC version are you using? The new VLC versions have a bug with the panoramix plugin, so there are only certain versions (taken from previous svn builds) that actually work. I filed a bug report on Trac a long time ago, but unfortunately the author of the panoramix plugin is no longer actively supporting this as he's moved on to other things, so it's not been looked at.
The output ratio is also dependent on the resolution each of your video outputs is set to - what resolution are you using?

Thanks,
Ben

By Driving Simulator I mean a big screen car and truck driving experience simulator... we were testing for example how drivers are reacting to tiredness and so on.

I'm using VLC 1.01 on PC for my tests. It has a bug which make the Windows not render at first, but I have found out that if I right-click in the taskbar, select maximize, double click on the window, then I can see all windows. Is there any further bugs?

The target projectors are Nec LT245:s, in 1024x768 (yes DLP not CRT, but I want to give it a try). But I would prefer if I could test this on another machine without having to set the entire rig up first.

At first I thought that VLC was reading my monitor resolution to set the aspect ratio, but that does not seem to be the case. Then I thought the crop settings were important. And they seem to be, but I can't figure out how they are related to what I get.

Essentially if I put 3 1024 by each other with 10% overlap I should get 1024*3 - 1024*0.1*(3-1) = 3676.8, that is 3677x768 in resolution. But how to set this up?

I'll sure upload some pictures if I can get this to work :)

I'm using VLC 1.01 on PC for my tests. It has a bug which make the Windows not render at first, but I have found out that if I right-click in the taskbar, select maximize, double click on the window, then I can see all windows. Is there any further bugs?


Interesting, the last version I tested was something like 1.0, and that version had a bug that meant that with panoramix enabled no video actually displayed except for a few frames every few seconds. It seems to be working better in 1.0.3 that I have just downloaded! However, it still seems to be broken compared to the 0.9.0 SVN version from August 2008 that I have been using for the last year or so.

I had some success just now with this 1.0.3 version, but the crop module seems to have a problem with some material depending on the source aspect ratio. So sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
What you need to try though (this is the same for the 0.9.0 version that I use) is in the Video settings, you need to define the video height and width, as well as the x and y position, it doesn't work if you let it auto-detect. My width is 1024, height is 768 i.e the resolution of my projectors. set the x and y position both to 1.
With these set you should find that the two images (or three in your case) go to the correct monitors, and go full-screen properly assuming you have full-screen selected.

You will find that the blend parameters in panoramix need adjusting to get a seamless blend, but you'll need to get your resolution and alignment correctly before fine tuning that. My panoramix parameters are:

# integer (Attenuation, begin (in %))
#panoramix-bz-begin=0

# integer (Attenuation, middle (in %))
panoramix-bz-middle=15

# integer (Attenuation, end (in %))
panoramix-bz-end=70

Also the crop ratio parameter needs to be adjusted for the ratio of your screen, i.e. mine is 2350 for a 2.35:1 ratio screen. The auto-crop setting is also far too sensitive on its default settings, mine are currently set as follows:

# integer (Number of images for change)
autocrop-time=200

# integer (Number of lines for change)
autocrop-diff=16

# integer (Number of non black pixels )
autocrop-non-black-pixels=0

# integer (Skip percentage (%))
autocrop-skip-percent=0

# integer (Luminance threshold )
autocrop-luminance-threshold=25


I'll be sticking with the 0.9.0 version though for now, as there is still definately something wrong with the latest version with some video files.
Thanks,
Ben

Ok, setting the video height, width, x and y makes VLC crash... I guess I should try installing 0.9.0, but I couldn't find an installer so it might take some time.

About the crop filter, should I tick that in the list where filters are activated? Or does the Panoramix filter take care of this for me?

Thanks' for your extensive help!

Ok, setting the video height, width, x and y makes VLC crash... I guess I should try installing 0.9.0, but I couldn't find an installer so it might take some time.

About the crop filter, should I tick that in the list where filters are activated? Or does the Panoramix filter take care of this for me?

Thanks' for your extensive help!

Its a specific build of 0.9.0 that works best, what I will do later is package it up and make it available for download, so I'll post a link later.
Sometimes VLC is temperamental about its settings, if you find its crashing it can be best to delete your vlcrc and start again with a clean setup.

Yes in the filters you will see all the filter modules listed twice. You need to tick them from the second set of filters, and its important that they are ticked in the right order, as this builds the filter order string at the bottom of that config box. I can't remember which to tick first, but work down the list and tick whichever one come first, then the one further down, so you will need both crop and panoramix selected.

Thanks,
Ben

Here's a link to the VLC version I use which works with blending:

http://www.willcoxonline.com/cinema/vlc-0.9.0.zip

I've also included my vlcrc file which you can put in the relevant place to try out my settings.

Let me know if you need any more assistance,

Ben

By Driving Simulator I mean a big screen car and truck driving experience simulator... we were testing for example how drivers are reacting to tiredness and so on.

If you ever need another one, you know where to find me (http://www.force-dynamics.com). :cool:

benwillcox:
I tried the version of VLC you sent, but I can't seem to get the filters active. In subsequent versions of VLC there are two different lists of filters under Video->Filter where one had to tick them in the second list, here there is only one list. What am I missing?

PeriSoft:
Cool! Our simulator was never that elaborate when it comes to moving and stuff. I would really like to try it in real life some day, I guess it will eventually find its way to Sweden. The simulator we built was more room size, designed to be extended with various stuff. And we had a "getting sick rate" of about 10% compared to your 1% :)

I just wanted to make sure you guys were aware of this thread.

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18404

This solution looks very promising. The MPC-HC solution seems very stable to me, I just don't have two projectors to play around with.

http://www.acdnow.com/Theater/CRBlendScreenCap.jpg

http://www.acdnow.com/Theater/CRBlendScreenShot.jpg


Mike

Interesting, the last version I tested was something like 1.0, and that version had a bug that meant that with panoramix enabled no video actually displayed except for a few frames every few seconds. It seems to be working better in 1.0.3 that I have just downloaded! However, it still seems to be broken compared to the 0.9.0 SVN version from August 2008 that I have been using for the last year or so.

I had some success just now with this 1.0.3 version, but the crop module seems to have a problem with some material depending on the source aspect ratio. So sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
-
-
-
I'll be sticking with the 0.9.0 version though for now, as there is still definately something wrong with the latest version with some video files.
Thanks,
Ben

Actually I have just been playing around with the latest VLC version (1.05) and it seems to work properly now.
Finally, after using a crippled for years now, we now have a version that works.
Hopefully someone will make the advanced functions of the blendzone work in the panoramix module, so we can have a perfect blend.
EDIT: The automatic cropping function does not work in 1.05. Upon a new aspect ratio detection the program exits. If you instead set aspect ratio manually in the crop module, it works fine.

Regards
Henrik

Another blending solution. Dual channel hardware edge blending for $1900. DVI input and output.

Mviewtech MP102-DVI

http://www.mviewtech.com/en/product.asp?classid=74&id=97

http://www.dhgate.com/p_ff808081289b2c6f01289f4361144158.html#0

http://www.mviewtech.com/en/faq.asp?video2

Hi,

I contacted Mviewtech.com

here are a couple of links about the product

"The video demo at http://v.ku6.com/show/wSmElYAISRMsnsJZ.html

And I place some picture at http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=18394"

video above is office testing on wall - looks "ok"

pictures in the forum link show FULL red / green / blue , and the images appear to have no "stepping" within the blend zone.

The unit is NOT HDCP compliant and so designed for PC games.

I downloaded the manual for the 2 ch unit (they also have a 3ch version)
blend zone from 0 to 512 pixels, very basic single page for setup, so easy to use - I dont know what it actually looks like in real life!

At its current price I will not be getting one in for testing.

(Does anyone know an available HDCP removal ;) device ??? - PM ME)

PS - I need to find some time and find/check an old PC hard drive, when I started blending I listed every possible option available and those not yet on market with as much detail as I could find, I would like to find that document and post for all, a sort of history of blending.

Andy.

Hi!

A fast question, if i use a videocard with two DVI out and put the Media Player Classic to Fullscreen. Can i use it to blend two CRT projectors with Moome?

Yes you can. I use the Tv-One units.

Athanasios

does he not need a shader plugin for the luminance roll off?

shader plugin? hmm sounds like a good feature!