My Nad receiver(7225 PE) finally died after 17 years. I'm looking to replace it. Anything better than a new Rotel or NAD? I will be driving bookshelf Paradigms in a bedroom. Thanks in advance.


Phil

You can probably do better (sonically) than a receiver by going with used separates.

Jeff

Outlaw RR2150

Rotel, NAD and Outlaw are the obvious choices new. Used, there is the Linn Classik and the Arcam Solo. Both include CD players and are $1k or less used and probably a step up from the rest.

The Outlaw RR2150 got a really good review from Stereophile in their March 2006 issue.


http://www.stereophile.com/integratedamps/306outlaw/

Stick with some vintage equipment! IMO the vintage 2 channel units are much better than what you would find today...

IF you are going to think about it... Go with a Marantz 2235B, Kenwood KR-9600, or Pioneer SX-1280, all are extremely awesome sounding receivers and cost under $1,000. (Not sure about the 2235B)

If your looking for REAL audio, without all the digital enhancments in place, then these are the ones to be looking for...

Unless you feel like spending $2100 on the Marantz 2500 or $2600 on the Marantz 2600. Though the cool thing about these 2 units: They have kick ass blue Oscilliscopes! Marantz knew what they were doing;)

I used to have one of those Kenwood KR-9600's, that thing was a monster! I bought one new when they first came out, used it for about 5 years and then went to Carver separates, I sold it to one of my friends back then, and he still has it and uses it. They were built like tanks and sounded great. There are no 2 channel receivers being made anymore now like those kinds were.

The Outlaw RR2150 got a really good review from Stereophile in their March 2006 issue.


http://www.stereophile.com/integratedamps/306outlaw/
If you need a receiver, another vote for this one from me. I would probably go the integrated amp route (I don't listen to radio all that much) and so Arcam, Cambridge Audio, NAD and Rotel would all be on the list (in that order for your price range and my preferences).

I would second an integrated amplifier.

Just wondering I'm new here but what about the Music Hall mavern???? Once a tuner is not essential or video out, I do agree an int amp is the way to go though.

As ARCAMs go, how does the A75 Plus rate? There seem to be a lot avail used, but not sure which are the better models.

Outlaw RR2150

I'm thinking of buying one of these currently-- have you heard it and what was it like?

Also look at the Music Hall Maven ($999 list). I haven't heard it, but it has been reviewed positively. Also the Rotel RX-1052 (lists for $899).

If you dont mind the care of tubes, Joilda 202B at 40 watts using EL34 tubes is a good deal.

Don't know how efficient your speakers are, but for a bedroom/office system an awful lot of people have switched to the little digital amps. I have a Sonic Impact Super-T and it works beautifully driving my Spectrum 208's. If all you need is an amp with a volume knob, then I would check those out before spending $1000.

Doug

Also look at the Music Hall Maven ($999 list). I haven't heard it, but it has been reviewed positively. Also the Rotel RX-1052 (lists for $899).


I'm looking at this receiver. But have not come across anyone who owns one. I'm a little hesitant to pull the trigger. Reviews are nice but who acutally owns one???

I have the music hall a25.2 in a secondary system along with the CD25 CD player. I think the music hall stuff is great bang for the buck. It is all Chinese made rebranded Shanling brand, but the build quality is really good for the price. My only complaint about them are that the remotes feel (and are) cheap.

By the way the Music Hall Mambo integrated can be picked up used for under 1K and it is a 50wpc class a integrated with built in DAC. I've been considering picking one of these up to replace the 25.2 since it is used primarily for the Squeezebox. I can run the digital out on the squeezebox direct to the Mambo. If you dont need a tuner, I would recommend the Mambo over the Maven.

A tuner is pretty essential. But i might be able to live without it. what is the Squeezebox used for by the way enlighten me??? And by the way how long have you had the 25.2. I was trying to find what the mavern was rated at 4ohms.
I think its 100w at 8ohms. Do you know its dampening factor???

The squeezebox is a network music player. I have been ripping my CD collection to flac lossless format, and playing through the squeezebox it sounds really good. It equals the Sound Quality of my Denon 3910. It has a great analog section, or you can run a digital out to an external DAC. Do a search on the squeezebox and you will see the great reviews. I would never have considered a network player because I would have considered it to be inferior, but after reading of people replacing mega buck transports with a squeezebox, I thought I would give it a try. My Denon is now only used for SACD and DVD audio, and it is great having your entire collection at your fingertips.

I have had the 25.2 for about 4 months or so. It hasnt received much use, because of a house remodel. When the remodel is done it will be set back up as a secondary system.

I do not know the damping factor of the Maven.

By the way I currently use the squeezebox in my HT/Main listening room. It consists of a Aragon Soundstage preamp/Processor, Denon 3910 DVD/SACD, Toshiba A1 HD DVD, Sierra Audio Whitney and Aragon 2004 amps. PBN Montana EPS main speakers. Tyler Acoustics Taylo Ref Center and Taylo rears. The system is very revealing and I am amazed at how good the stock squeezebox sounds.

By the way the Music Hall Mambo integrated can be picked up used for under 1K and it is a 50wpc class a integrated with built in DAC. I've been considering picking one of these up to replace the 25.2 since it is used primarily for the Squeezebox. I can run the digital out on the squeezebox direct to the Mambo. If you dont need a tuner, I would recommend the Mambo over the Maven.

The DAC on the Mambo hasn't received that great of reviews (harsh, rigid, steely, etc.). I doubt there'd be any improvement over the Squeezebox (or Sonos) DAC. Their analog sections are actually very good and probably wouldn't be bested until you start looking at the $2k transport range.

I was here about 4 years ago. Got a Rotel 1050, I think it is now the 1052. Check it out.

I am also shopping for sub $1000 2ch receiver/int. amp

I had lined up Rotel RX-1052, Onkyo A-9555, Outlaw RR2150, NAD C372, C352
though not in that order.

They all have good reviews, except C352 i.e I cant find any review on NAD C352. I would presume NAD C352 would be just fine like C372. It just has a lower rating (80 wpc)

Rotel RX-1052 has the most versatile connections. You can do anything you want with them and also all that you can do via the panel are suported on the remote like changing the volume level of the zones etc. Also the front digital display on Rotel is pretty cool. I also like the continuously rotating volume knob unlike the vol. knob in others. yes you can have different volume level on the main and zones and they can be controlled from the remote. The pre. amp output level is controlled from the main vol. control like in other receivers/amps.

Onkyo is last in line as far as connections are concerned. It is also the cheapest I guess.
$499 online. I dont know how much NAD C352 is. C372 is $899 so it should be like $699. Not sure.
I guess we can talk about pricing. I dont think AVS sells receivers/amps.

Outlaw has a sub output (RCA) but I didnt see in the manual if there is a way to control the sub output level from the remote like the HT receivers allow. Only problem with outlaw is there is no dealer to go listen to. It is factory direct.

So far I have only listened to the Rotel that too not long enough to convince myself if it sounds better than DENON AVR2308 (HT receiver similarly priced).

I tried Rotel RX-1052 and Denon 2308 on Klipsch RB-81 bookshelf speakers at the dealer store. I thought the Rotel had sharper highs and tighter bass but I should go back and listen a bit longer. I also own Klipsh RB-81 and I like its crystal clear highs compared to the B&W 602 S2 that I had before. These new Klipsch bookshelf speakers dont sould like horns at all. I have a 6 yr old Yamaha RX-V795a HT receiver whic I am trying to replace by a good 2ch receiver/int. amp as I am mainly a music guy.

Anyway.. I would like to hear more about NAD C352 or 372 and also more discussion about other receivers, int. amps to make my decision easier :-)

I had started a discussion in the Onkyo A-9555 thread but didnt want to hijack that thread. Looks like this is the thread I should be looking for more info.

My Nad receiver(7225 PE) finally died after 17 years. I'm looking to replace it. Anything better than a new Rotel or NAD? I will be driving bookshelf Paradigms in a bedroom. Thanks in advance.


Phil

You should audition to see which receiver/int amp will match your speakers best.

BTW I found a review for NAD C352 in avguide.com
Very positive review. Retail is $599 as per avguide.com

Sure we have to audition the receivers but what are the chances that I will find a dealer who has the same speakers I have and the receivers/amps that I have lined up to consider :-)

There is one dealer in my place who has Rotel RX-1052 and my speakers Klipsch RB-81. Thats is where I bought my speakers. Looks like I have to visit that place again and give Rotel a good listen. He said I sure will come back :-)

There is only one NAD dealer in Detroit Metro and I know they dont have klipsch speakers. They mainly carry PSB speakers. Thats about it. Outlaw has no dealer and Onkyo also has no dealer. Circuit City is the main resource for Onkyo and they dont carry the int. amp A-9555. So most likely we have to buy it based on reviews and word of mouth :-)

If one has a tight budget then Onyo or NAD C352 would be the choice.

If one is looking for loaded features like connectivity then no doubt it is the Rotel RX-1052 IMO. The dealer I found gives 10% off MSRP so it is not a bad price considering the features ($810). Outlaw is $649 only $150 less than what I can get Rotel for. I wouldnt hesitate to add $150 and get the Rotel as it is loaded with features.

Since we are not taking about any online deals here I guess this price talk is ok. After all these products are not sold in B&M stores. So we arent doing any harm to AVS by discussing the price.

BTW Rotel offers a 5 yr parts 5 yr labor warranty on receivers/amps.
I dont think the others offer 5 yrs. correct me if I am wrong.

Most likely this week or weekend I will visit the dealer again and spend more time with my favorite CD's. Will let you guys know what I think.

I could be wrong but Outlaw has 30 day money back trial period? Double check on that. Also if you dont need a tuner or the video switching. Seriously check some int amp. Those 'loaded' features usually will affect music quality since the normal way of think is the more stuff you pack into the box is usually not a good idea. In any event lots of these newer receivers are pretty amazing in the sound quality you get out of them. Also the rotel and outlaw both have pre-out so if you get a less efficient speaker later an external amp is a definate neccecesity.

i bought a outlaw 2150 b-stock $499 based on reviews and the overall quality of all outlaw products that have been reviewed----run Pandora through a squeezebox using sierra 1 speakers and a svs pb12/+ sub------hard to imagine that it gets better than this for the $----one mans opinion-----i support as many internet companies as possible ( svs--outlaw & ascend) and have found them to have superior custumer relations and support,no sales tax and a vastly superior price point compared to similiar retail centers----all have a 30 day trail period with no hassle returns-----sometimes you just have to take a chance----i glad i did

Anything Rotel

If you have a grand to blow on 2 chanel audio, you seriously owe it to yourself to pick up some Rotel pieces. The RC-1070 preamp is a great starter pre, while their RB series amps will provide plenty of juice. Their stuff is the best bang for the buck, and you get a great warranty. I've been there & done that, and I'll never go back to a receiver. They suck. Period. An integrated amp might work, but if you plan to upgrade, just go with separates. You won't be dissapointed.

What does the Rotel RC1070 preamp & RB1070 amp cost? About $800-900. New.

If you have a grand to blow on 2 chanel audio, you seriously owe it to yourself to pick up some Rotel pieces. The RC-1070 preamp is a great starter pre, while their RB series amps will provide plenty of juice. Their stuff is the best bang for the buck, and you get a great warranty. I've been there & done that, and I'll never go back to a receiver. They suck. Period. An integrated amp might work, but if you plan to upgrade, just go with separates. You won't be dissapointed.

What does the Rotel RC1070 preamp & RB1070 amp cost? About $800-900. New.

I don't own Rotel but I have spent considerable time with their gear and I agree, best gear in that price range and clearly superior to any receiver.

Are you going to buy a DAC also?

Why so much love for Rotel? Don't get me wrong, I know Rotel is considered decent equipment but if one was looking for a used integrated amp vintage 1993 or so then an Audiolab 8000A is a better buy for the same money. I don't know how Audiolab compares to Rotel now but they are back in business and the new 8000S got very good marks in a review I read and sells for $850.00 in Canada. 8000A cost $1100.00 back in 1993 in Canada as a comparison. Should be less than that in the US. Nothing wrong with Rotel, NAD, Arcam or Linn but just wanted to point out that British HiFi magazine rated Audiolab 8000A better than all of them for integrated amps in its class back in 1994 or so. Yes, I am still using the venerable Audilab 8000A right now but have been considering upgrading soon and that is why this thread has me posting my $0.02 in it. Almost bought the Onkyo A-9555 ClassD integrated but up here in Canada they want $999.99 for it at NCIX when I know it can be bought for $499.99 in the US. No, thanks. Then I found out Audiolab are back and the 8000S is supposedly quite good so am now eying that up. Not sure how it compares to the Rotel RX-1052 though. One issue is that I need an amp that can drive complex loads as I use two sets of speakers running in parallel. I known the Onkyo A-9555 can because I read someone ran 3 sets of speakers in parallel out of it for 8 hours at failry loud volume with no issues and I am fairly certain the new Audiolab 8000S can as my current 8000A can and they are similar design. Can the Rotel though? Can I even get a better new 2 channel integrated amp than the 8000A for under $1000.00? Outlaw is out of the question as I don't cross border shop. It would be on my list otherwise.

http://www.audiolab.co.uk/

This is a fairly brief review of new 8000S and the price is in NZD so discount that. Audiolab dealer in Canada told me it is $850.00 CAD which is a very fair price.

http://www.audioenz.co.nz/2006/audiolab_8000.shtml

I'd say check out Yamaha's RX-797, which is their most expensive stereo receiver. It's their "TOP-ART" designed Receiver, which boasts symmetrical construction, and a "body on frame" chassis that kills distortion arising from vibrations, etc. Yamaha's are extremely reliable, as well as good sounding, BTW.

LJB

PS: Still have a CR-820 from college days - still works, never serviced.

Why so much love for Rotel?


I don't think it's a bandwagon thing, but when you simply want great quality at a reasonable price backed by a great warranty, Rotel is simply a name that pops up. They're a reputable company, and in the audio world, that counts for a lot. It's not to say there aren't others. I know there are.


When I consider a receiver vs. separates, I can't help but sacrifice the added features of a receiver vs. the quality and power separates have. For a stereo only set-up, it's a no-brainer. I still giggle when watching TV or playing a game when the audio kicks up a bit and makes my apartment shudder momentarily. If I have to put up with my downstairs neighbors yelling and cussing each other out and moaning like a pair of beached whales when they're having sex (...mental picture...I think I just threw up a little in my mouth), they can deal with the power and bandwidth of my amps driving my floorstanding speakers. Try that with a reciever.