im thinking about buying an aftermarket power cord for my pioneer plasma, and meh, maybe even my computer. has anyone here ever bought one? if so, was the change noticable at first glance, or did it take some time to realize the improvements, or was the difference just negligible (or nothing at all)? im really curious as to see how such a product would affect my plasma.

The A.C. power that's delivered to your home is generated dozens and hundreds of miles away. Between the generation point and your home it's converted up, down and sideways multiple times. Finally, on a pole or box near your home, it's converted One Last Time, a "neutral" line is added, and the drop to your home is made. The feed enters your home, goes to a distribution panel (aka: "breaker box" or "fuse box"), then, from there, to the various outlets and light fixtures in your home.

What these tweak power cord manufacturers would have you believe is that, after traveling all that way, somehow a Special Last Six Feet of Premium Power Cord is going to somehow make the electricity "better."

Right.

As to whether or not you'll perceive an improvement after buying and installing an expensive, "high-end" power cord: Of course you will. Just like your car always seems to run a bit better right after you've given it a good wash.

Great answer, the anology is perfect! :)

Bravo !!............ Thats the Best Analogy on the Subject I've read !! :)

and what of power conditioners then?

ive read reports of both electrical engineers and non e.e.s building their own special cables with but again, mixed reviews. people tend to argue a lot about these cords, but it seems coupling them with your amp(s) tends to consistently yield better results. still, hundreds of dollars and youll maybe get results just doesnt sound too appealing.

ps what kind of ****** thinks their car runs better after theyve washed it? :rolleyes:

and what of power conditioners then?What of them? Unless you have crappy power (sags, surges, or excessive amount of noise due to exceedingly noisy loads in the vicinity) they are likewise a waste of your money, IMO.

Surge suppression at the service entrance is always an excellent idea. Most of these other fixes, tweaks and gadgets are for people looking to fix problems that don't exist.

Of course, if you have voltage irregularities, transients or other problems....these devices can provide mitigation.

Surge suppression at the service entrance is always an excellent idea.Unquestionably. I have a Leviton whole-house surge suppressor on my service entrance, myself.

alright guys, i appreciate everyones help. thanks again.

I don't know what your stock power cord is like, but you could try an inexpensive experiment to see if your plasma might benefit. Volex 17604 cords can be purchased for less than $8. Have fun!

sounds good. ill give those a go.

gauge and insulation. thats the only area of advantage that can be gained in different power cables. there is no signal being transmitted so all that matters is having the proper gauge for the amount of power being drawn through the cable and proper insulation to avoid stray signal from adding noise to the cable, and since proper insulation is required by UL listings dependent on wire gauge this should never be a problem. If you need to run a longer power cable then stepping up a gauge may be required depending on the power draw of the equipment so as to not overheat the cable from trying to pass too much current through it.

From there its asthetics and feel. Some cables are more flexible than others of equal gauge which can help depending on your equipment location and some have a more "industrial" feel to them giving a sense of better build quality.

power conditioning doesn't change things, again, its theoreticaly a constant voltage and constant single frequency with varying current. No timing issues, etc as with signal cables, no digital information to loose to noise, etc. So a well constructed poper gauge and insulation cable will do fine, no need for anything fancy.

proper insulation to avoid stray signal from adding noise to the cable,

Insulation is used to prevent the wires form shorting together, and to prevent user from being electrocuted. It does not prevent interference in any way. It is not magnetic, it is transparent to electric and magnetic fields.

Putting weights on top of all my cables improved the sound in my system. I also put weights on all my gear too.

Putting weights on top of all my cables improved the sound in my system. I also put weights on all my gear too.


:D :D :D
When I have my New House built .Im having the Contractor put the House Foundation directly on top of all my Cables !! :rolleyes:

I have to put weights on top of my dehumidifier in the unfinished basement area....it helps deaden the rattling sound from the fan and compressor :)

Putting weights on top of all my cables improved the sound in my system. I also put weights on all my gear too.

I thought the cables were supposed to be suspended like in a bridge. I modeled my bridge after the Golden Gate. It looks beautiful and keeps my cords properly elevated. The difference is huge.

In all seriousness, some find balanced power to be beneficial. The amount of benefit will depend on the quality of the power you are receiving and the quality of the power supply in your component.

Ericglo

Doesn't putting weights on top of the cables flatten the soundstage?

Originally Posted by HiFiSoundGuy
Putting weights on top of all my cables improved the sound in my system. I also put weights on all my gear too.

He also bought little battery power clocks and said they are acoustical treatments ..... Still baffled over that theory :rolleyes:

I prefer to think of putting weights on the cable as spreading the soundstage. Makes you wonder what those flat speaker cables sound like, huh?

I thought the cables were supposed to be suspended like in a bridge. I modeled my bridge after the Golden Gate. It looks beautiful and keeps my cords properly elevated. The difference is huge.

In all seriousness, some find balanced power to be beneficial. The amount of benefit will depend on the quality of the power you are receiving and the quality of the power supply in your component.

Ericglo

You could have gotten off Cheaper (??) going this route;Got Wood (http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=CARVBLOCK1&product_name=Myrtle%20Wood%20V-Blocks%20-%20Large%20-%20Single%20Cut%20-%20Set%20of%206)

Another..................HUH ??? :D :rolleyes:

im thinking about buying an aftermarket power cord for my pioneer plasma, and meh, maybe even my computer. has anyone here ever bought one? if so, was the change noticable at first glance, or did it take some time to realize the improvements, or was the difference just negligible (or nothing at all)? im really curious as to see how such a product would affect my plasma.

Oh, don't listen to some of these guys, unfortunately the ol' knee jerk "how can the last few feet" is pretty unoriginal but thats mostly what you will get. Some of the same skeptics have $99 upscaling DVD players and think that the D/A conversion avoided by using HDMI give them a hidef picture. There is more to it than science, the way you put a system together is personal, for example, there is a guy out there who is always putting down tweaks at every opportunity and he lists in his profile "Bose, Sherwood and RCA" as his equipment. Doesn't make him wrong, he is seduced by some sort of hype along the way like the rest of us and we all think that the choices we made were the best, that is what the hobby is about. Sound, vision, reactions to aesthetics, taste, etc. is unique to the individual, the engineering type has alot of fun arguing on the merits of formulas but the same guy might think super cuts gives a good haircut. My suggestion is that you try a cord out from a place where you can return it if you don't see/hear a benefit.

You could have gotten off Cheaper (??) going this route;Got Wood (http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=CARVBLOCK1&product_name=Myrtle%20Wood%20V-Blocks%20-%20Large%20-%20Single%20Cut%20-%20Set%20of%206)

Another..................HUH ??? :D :rolleyes:

Just look at the nice profit margins you can make out of a $4 6 foot long 2x4....

Oh, don't listen to some of these guys, unfortunately the ol' knee jerk "how can the last few feet" is pretty unoriginal but thats mostly what you will get.

Yeah it really sucks when the truth hurts.... It may be unoriginal, but it's the truth. After the power leaves the power station and goes through miles of power lines, numerous transformers, and who know how many splices, plus the wiring in the building itself. Then something like six feet of high end overpriced power cord is not going to improve anything.

Oh, don't listen to some of these guys, unfortunately the ol' knee jerk "how can the last few feet" is pretty unoriginal but thats mostly what you will get.
Oh come now. If you don't want to take the suggestions that've been offered here, how's about what Chris Russel of Bryston has to say when I emailed him some time back?

Thanks for your interesting inquiry re power cords. I can answer fully with normal engineering considerations and simple iinformation: There are likely to be 50 miles of cable and half a dozen or more transformers between you and the power plant generating the power that your sound system uses. It is unlikely, to say the least, that a power cord occupying the final six feet of that 50 miles can do anything positive to change the conditions of that power.

It is possible to do damage to power delivery of course, by restricting current flow for instance. That would be the case if you had a cord which was too thin for the power needs, for example. If the power cord was much larger than necessary, however, it would unfortunately be limited by outside factors, such as the size of the wiring in your walls, or outside your house.

It is also possible for a power cord to incorporate bandwidth-limiting components, to restrict the influx of RF or other contaminants to the 60Hz waveform. It is not possible, unfortunately, to do this without restricting the flow of 60Hz current to some degree as well. Most audio products, especially including Bryston audio components, contain internal circuitry designed to eliminate these contaminants within the power supply. They are designed to operate from an unrestricted source of 60Hz current, and will actually work less well if the current is restricted from the outside.

In sum, it is certainly possible for a six-foot power cord to have an affect on the sound, and to change the sonic quality, for the worse. It is not possible, unortunately, for this change to be an improvement, at least in connection with Bryston products. Bryston recommends that the customer do careful listening prior to spending what is usually a very substantial amount of money on exotic power cords. Remember that it is in the cord vendor's direct financial interest to proclaim an improvement in sound quality for their products, and that any change is not necessarily a desirable one.

I hope the above is helpful, but please do not hesitate to get in touch if you have other questions.

Sincerely,
Chris Russell
Bryston Ltd.

Hi Chu,

Do note that this was included in the Bryston quote you supplied:

"In sum, it is certainly possible for a six-foot power cord to have an affect on the sound, and to change the sonic quality, for the worse."

I suppose you can claim that the few factors Bryston listed are the only possible factors that could affect performance, but what about the effects a power cord could have on adjacent components? Have you pondered this, and what kind of facts might you have regarding RFI/EMI that might be spewed by cheap power cords?

-Tweak

Yeah it really sucks when the truth hurts.... It may be unoriginal, but it's the truth. After the power leaves the power station and goes through miles of power lines, numerous transformers, and who know how many splices, plus the wiring in the building itself. Then something like six feet of high end overpriced power cord is not going to improve anything.

Has nothing to do with the miles of power lines but it has more to do with the interference within the home. A well shielded power cord can make a difference in some applications, albeit you can get a well shielded cord for a few bucks. It all depends on priorities, you may wear a Prada belt and I may wear a generic belt, the both hold our pants up but our values are different. Being offended that someone likes something fancier and may be influenced by psychoacoustics is wasted energy.

Just look at the nice profit margins you can make out of a $4 6 foot long 2x4....

Same margins as your monoprice my friend......

A well shielded power cord can make a difference in some applications,

Despite the low impedance of th epower supply input?

Has nothing to do with the miles of power lines but it has more to do with the interference within the home.

Why do you think that sheilding the last 6 feet, will eliminate the induced noise picked up by the hundreds of miles of unsheilded cable?

[QUOTE=Targus]Despite the low impedance of th epower supply input?



I read somewhere: that unless you live in a large metro area like New York or Los Angeles, what a power analyzer will usually reveal is that the power company supplies good clean power with relatively little noise. This is the first great misunderstanding - that audiophiles need to protect their equipment from the horribly polluted world "out there". The primary culprit of power line noise and disturbance is generated within the household - from high-current devices like air conditioning, electric heating and refrigerators to high-noise devices like fluorescent lights, dimmers and digital electronics.

If you think just shielding the last 5 or 6 feet is gonna be a massive big help...
Then you probably also should get setup with one of these!! (http://zapatopi.net/afdb/)

Do note that this was included in the Bryston quote you supplied:

"In sum, it is certainly possible for a six-foot power cord to have an affect on the sound, and to change the sonic quality, for the worse."
I do note it but I read this as either power cords that have some kind of poorly designed circuitry built in that throttles the current or power cords that are of a pathologically small gauge for the intended equipment.

I suppose you can claim that the few factors Bryston listed are the only possible factors that could affect performance, but what about the effects a power cord could have on adjacent components? Have you pondered this, and what kind of facts might you have regarding RFI/EMI that might be spewed by cheap power cords?
If you're that concerned about it, you can buy cheap power cords that are not only shielded but UL listed from a variety of sources like newark.com. Myself, it seems this isn't all that much of a problem so long as companies faithfully adhere to the appropriate governmental regulations surrounding this. Of course, you then have some that manage to f it up like Nuforce did.

Interference from things in the home like lights, dimmers, and such can have solutions that don't have to involve anything with the audio equipment. For example there are better dimmers that don't radiate so much hash. switches that can be replaced so they don't 'bounce' when activated, snubbers that can go on AC units, noisy ballasts that can be replaced and so on. Once, when I worked in a laboratory environment with all sorts of equipment and a room full of fluorescent light, we had a receiver so we could listen to music while we worked. OK, that and Howard Stern. Never once did anything in the lab or the facility ever affect the receiver in an adverse way.

For the ultimate power cord, may I suggest this?

http://www.meter.com/mothra/forklift.jpg

If you think just shielding the last 5 or 6 feet is gonna be a massive big help...
Then you probably also should get setup with one of these!! (http://zapatopi.net/afdb/)

You say "massive", I say perhaps a small difference. When we get down to it, after all the equipment is purchased, the most you can do to "improve" things may be room treatments, speaker positioning and maybe addressing any interference/power issues. To the person who has a sizeable investment in time and money in the hobby, the small things could have meaningful return on investment. Again, this could be a $4 shielded cord for the guy who is on a budget and has a mess of wire jammed behind his entertainment center or a prettier $150 cord to a person who relatively has the means/desire.

[QUOTE=Targus]Despite the low impedance of th epower supply input?



I read somewhere: that unless you live in a large metro area like New York or Los Angeles, what a power analyzer will usually reveal is that the power company supplies good clean power with relatively little noise. This is the first great misunderstanding - that audiophiles need to protect their equipment from the horribly polluted world "out there". The primary culprit of power line noise and disturbance is generated within the household - from high-current devices like air conditioning, electric heating and refrigerators to high-noise devices like fluorescent lights, dimmers and digital electronics.


What's that got to do with input impedance?

[QUOTE=soldonandy]


What's that got to do with input impedance?


Nothing, it is all ones and zeros my man...just make sure you are consistant and don't got to Church and you buy all generic products.

Ah...posting while drinking? ;)

Ah...posting while drinking? ;)

Good call.....better than drinking and posting then drinking and driving. Anyway, I see kicking the sand in the face of the well meaning hobbyist as a bully move and whether or not I am hardcore believer, I'll stick up for the underdog everytime. In this debate I see the engineering type as someone who is penny wise and pound foolish.

We just see you as stupid.

We just see you as stupid.

Gee, that is really insulting coming from you. My approach more often than not on the forums is middle of the road, I generally find when you have two extremes, the answer is somewhere in the middle. I try not to go on the attack unless I am called out, sometimes I'll start a little trouble by ruffling the feathers of someone who takes an adamantly extreme position but I try not to attack personally unless I am called out. I also try to engage in civility and give credit to other peoples views, etc.

With that in mind, I have acknowledged that many of the tweaks, cables and power cords have more aesthetic and psychoacoustic benefits than anything else but they are still "benefits" and there is a willing market. I really don't understand why the same crew gets so bent out of shape on that some people like to play with this stuff, I just don't buy that everyone is such the consumer advocate. I think this is more of a venue for some scientist/engineering types who may have got picked on a little to lash back and I think the cable crowd represents some sort of sore spot in every nerds past. In other words, I think the angry vocal guys like you Targus really must have gotten some sand kicked in your face. Oh well, this is a good opportunity for you to flex your intellectual muscles and prove that you have beaten the system as you mull through life with your own set of hypocritical choices. I'll just sit at home sulking with my elaborate audio/video set up, lifes tough.

I just purchased 2 power cords from audio advisor for my svs subs, the stock ones kept wiggleing loose, the PS audio prelude cables I bought (at a reasonable price, they are on sale) seem to fit quite a bit snugger. < that's a fun word!

So was upgrading a power cable worth it? ABSOLUTELY, they have solved a problem with a better mechanical connection, it's not magic or rocket science, it's just a matter of how much you want to spend. The insults on the avs forum are not necessary, seems they are everywhere, have a little respect for your friends, and guys, how about when we get insulted we turn the other cheek and don't respond, much less quote what should have never been said in the first place. If there mothers never taught them how to behave and interact with others, we never will.

The cables look nice too, click on the "check out my system here" to see my new power cables.

I just purchased 2 power cords from audio advisor for my svs subs, the stock ones kept wiggleing loose, the PS audio prelude cables I bought (at a reasonable price, they are on sale) seem to fit quite a bit snugger. < that's a fun word!

So was upgrading a power cable worth it? ABSOLUTELY, they have solved a problem with a better mechanical connection, it's not magic or rocket science, it's just a matter of how much you want to spend. The insults on the avs forum are not necessary, seems they are everywhere, have a little respect for your friends, and guys, how about when we get insulted we turn the other cheek and don't respond, much less quote what should have never been said in the first place. If there mothers never taught them how to behave and interact with others, we never will.

The cables look nice too, click on the "check out my system here" to see my new power cables.

I have the same issue with my Velodyne DD12, the stock cable would just wall out. I bought this Audio Magic cord on Audiogon for $50 and it works much better. BTW, the PS audio stuff at Audio Advisor is a great deal, totally fun upgrade for reasonable money, I got a prelude for my amp for $125, this thing is like a garden hose, very cool.

Power cords should be 12ga or 10ga.That only has to do with current, the rest is snake oil.

And pure silver...OMG :eek:

All this cable talk reminds me of the time I went to Circuit City. A sales rep caught me looking at the Monstercable and immediately started in on the 'propaganda' of why their copper is better than some others.

When he started talking about how the wires were engineered for time correction so that all the different signals for the different instruments would arrive at the speaker at the correct time for better sound, I just replied 'Interesting. But how does the wire know?'. He repeated a few 'monster facts' and then kinda disappeared. All fun at the end of the day.

Note: I did buy a goldplated monstercable extension powercord from a closing Radio Shack for $6. Was going to use it for my sub-woofer (It looked pretty) but it tightened up the base so much it made me pucker. So I went back to a regular extension cord. ;)

You have gotta love salesmen, even when I bought my power cables, the last thing the guy said was give them 48 hours to break in and the sound will improve,..........I felt like saying to him "man you had me at hello". :) I'm going to buy whatever I want if the price is right, voodoo science isn't needed on me.

Its the last 6' from the generator, but the first 6' that the equipment sees.

This last 6' talk is so old yet some continues to quote it.

Like SoldonAndy said, buy it from a place that offers money back guarantee. Try it in the system, if you dont think it makes a difference, return it.

Quite a few engineers believe the world is a better place because of them, and any one that does not agree with what they preach are idiots. I spent 4 years of my life studying with fellow engineers so I am qualified to make that statement.

I study but never practiced engineering. My approach is always to have an open mind, test it as long as your budget allows.

And even Bryston agrees that the "last 6 feet " may make a difference. Whether its better or worse is up to the personal taste. I always find Bryston sound to be slightly analytical. So if a power cord makes it warmer sounding, I will consider it a plus, while the Bryston engineer will call it a negative influence (as they obviously design it to sound clean/analytical.)

Keep in mind lots of extremist at either end of the scale here. Take the middle ground if I were you.

Its the last 6' from the generator, but the first 6' that the equipment sees.
What a crock of.......

This last 6' talk is so old yet some continues to quote it.

Yeah, and yet it's the truth. The last 6' is not going to fix or improve anything.

I spent 4 years of my life studying with fellow engineers so I am qualified to make that statement

Now that's a crock of....

It may've been a more prudent move to simply replace the wall outlet if your plugs were coming loose. Industrial grade ones or even pretty colored hospital ones may be a bit secure. Builder's do manage to find the cheapest anything they can put in.

It may've been a more prudent move to simply replace the wall outlet if your plugs were coming loose. Industrial grade ones or even pretty colored hospital ones may be a bit secure. Builder's do manage to find the cheapest anything they can put in.

It was the amplifier receptactle of the svs sub & the stock svs power cable that were not makeing a secure contact not the wall outlet, both of my svs's are like this, so there is nothing to replace other than the power cord. But I have also upgraded my outlets to the 2.00 premium version vs. the .29cent version. No need to get any fancier or technical about this from my point of view.

Now that's a crock of....

Amtrak Engineers ? :D Choo--choo !!!!!!!! :p

What a crock of.......



Yeah, and yet it's the truth. The last 6' is not going to fix or improve anything.
"Truth" according to the objectivist, "lie" according to the subjectivist.

As to whether or not you'll perceive an improvement after buying and installing an expensive, "high-end" power cord: Of course you will. Just like your car always seems to run a bit better right after you've given it a good wash.
What kind of car you have and what kind of car wash you use ?
:)

It's not the car wash that's important, it's how how dry it and buff it later.

http://gridgirls.boxenluders.com/albums/album28/001_Car_Wash.highlight.jpg

It just got done raining here and I hit a big mud puddle, so send her over to wash and dry and buff my car..... ;)

After she's finished buffing my ornament.

After she's finished buffing my ornament.

I'm sure that won't take long.

I kid, I kid. :D

I wouldn't complain either way.

I wouldn't complain either way.I doubt she will either. They all work on flat rate, don't they?

-Tweak

Well, there is tipping you know.

Back to Bryston, Wongmb and I tried a few different cords with Jakeman's 9B SST a while ago. They ranged from the stock black cord that you get free with your PC to a $500 Shunyata Taipan. Cut to the chase, yes, Virginia there was a difference, but the best sounding cord was the cheapo stock cord. We were quite surprised by that result, but we figured that Bryston engineers their gear to sound best with the stock cord. So if you have a Bryston, use the stock cord. Not everyone has a Bryston so whaddya got to lose by experimenting as long as the store has a good return policy, try a few to see which works best.

Well, if you read and understood the reply from Bryston, the choice of a power cord is dictated by the attached equipment's electrical consumption commensurate with safety requirements. No offence, but your thinking that Bryston chose that because it was the best sounding is wishful thinking given that particular company and its historical origins.

You've got plenty to lose Mike if you do sighted comparisons apart from time.

BTW: that PC test that we did was blind with only Jakeman doing the switching. Both Mike W and I preferred the stock cord. Is it possible that Bryston worked from the ground up, and engineered the amp to sound best with the stock cord? I'm just asking....

This is a hobby for me, experimenting with different tweaks to squeeze the last ounce of performance out of my system is fun for me, so I have lots of time to mess around with my system. What else am I gonna do, watch Desperate Housewifes with my wife? :)

BTW: that PC test that we did was blind with only Jakeman doing the switching. Both Mike W and I preferred the stock cord. Is it possible that Bryston worked from the ground up, and engineered the amp to sound best with the stock cord? I'm just asking....
I kinda doubt it Mike. You could ask Bryston this question directly. In a general sense, manfuacturers are careful with their responses because even if they believe or know one thing, they don't want to alienate a signficant segment of the buying public who subscribes to the position that power cords confer audible differences. You don't really care who buys your product just that someone buys it.

This is a hobby for me, experimenting with different tweaks to squeeze the last ounce of performance out of my system is fun for me, so I have lots of time to mess around with my system. What else am I gonna do, watch Desperate Housewifes with my wife?You definitely have a point there. Bluejays are kind of tanking and won't be in the playoffs. I'd recommend catching the Hooters swimsuit parade on 'The Best Damned Sports Show'.

I kinda doubt it Mike. You could ask Bryston this question directly. In a general sense, manfuacturers are careful with their responses because even if they believe or know one thing, they don't want to alienate a signficant segment of the buying public who subscribes to the position that power cords confer audible differences. You don't really care who buys your product just that someone buys it.
.


No doubt about that and the more expensive your product is the smaller the demographic. I am sure most manufacturers would say that if you hear a difference then good for you. Then mumble under their breath "Sucker":). Followed by "Now, which credit card do you want to use?".:)

...for example, there is a guy out there who is always putting down tweaks at every opportunity and he lists in his profile "Bose, Sherwood and RCA" as his equipment. Doesn't make him wrong, he is seduced by some sort of hype along the way like the rest of us and we all think that the choices we made were the best, that is what the hobby is about. .

I just came across this....
AV Snob!

What if you are using a power conditioner. So that mean there's 50 miles of wire between the power station and your power conditioner. The 6' (or less) from your power conditioner to your gear should have clean power. If you use premium power cables between your components and the power conditioner should this not help preserve the cleanliness of the power? Would it also help stop the emission of electro-magnetic radiation from the cord which could contaminate your interconnects?

What if you are using a power conditioner.

Sounds like you're desperately grasping for a reason.

Hey Targus what is your technical background? I was just curious because you are always posting these nasty mean spirited, fact based comments, that take all of the fun out of getting our information from the BBuy salesgal. Say what you will, some of us just know that a fatter cord, must work better and that higher frequencies make intelligent elections to use the smaller wire.

Give us a break will 'ya? I am working on a product to offset the effect of the lunar gravitational pull on both the actual electron flow and the quasi-wave propagation of the octave weighted signal in base metal conductors, without which, sound quality will vary with the phases of the moon.

I would really like you support on this; stock options are on the table.

Hardware will come from the respected OEM firm of Divinci Sound and will be made in this factory (or something similar somewhere).http://www.divincisound.com/pic2/factory1.jpg
We will operate using a proven direct marketing model from off-shore. The team is standing by.
http://static.ibnlive.com/pix/sitepix/call-centre.jpg

I am working on a product to offset the effect of the lunar gravitational pull on both the actual electron flow and the quasi-wave propagation of the octave weighted signal in base metal conductors, without which, sound quality will vary with the phases of the moon.

Drat. I was just about to file a patent for that.

Oh well, I always have my pure Mylar designer audiophile smokers jackets with silver coated buttons, and matching 'tin foil' sound stream frequency hats.

Drat. I was just about to file a patent for that.

Oh well, I always have my pure Mylar designer audiophile smokers jackets with silver coated buttons, and matching 'tin foil' sound stream frequency hats.

Great product! We can do a deal.

But we need Targus as our marketing guy; he has the touch.

Yeah, I always liked the touch of a sledgehammer for marketing.

Really gets their attention. :)

I just went through this entire thread from the beginning and it was better than comedy central! I'm impressed with the behavior of some and depressed with the behavior of others. Both parties know who they are and that's what makes the world turn.

re: the mega buck cables, I'll buy then when Walmart stocks them. With their purchasing power a $500 cable should drop to $50 ....which is about right for me. No offense to those who wish to pay 5 large.

This whole thread kind of embarrasses me. Being a practicing electrical engineer, I often recommend this site to friends for gear recommendations. However when they hit a thread like this they walk away not taking the site serious. Open minded is one thing, stupid is another. It's even hard to argue an intelligent point, since it's like a doctor trying to explain to a bull headed patient why wearing a pyramid hat won't cure his cancer. Concerning the Bryston comment, I suppose a an AC cord could make you equipment worse if it consisted of an old piece of rusty steel 28awg wire.

Just my 2 Cents, I had to vent.

Jon

This whole thread kind of embarrasses me. Being a practicing electrical engineer, I often recommend this site to friends for gear recommendations. However when they hit a thread like this they walk away not taking the site serious. Open minded is one thing, stupid is another. It's even hard to argue an intelligent point, since it's like a doctor trying to explain to a bull headed patient why wearing a pyramid hat won't cure his cancer. Concerning the Bryston comment, I suppose a an AC cord could make you equipment worse if it consisted of an old piece of rusty steel 28awg wire.

Just my 2 Cents, I had to vent.

Jon

You definitely sound like a "practicing electrical engineer". Even the choice of words are "identical" to many similar "practicing electrical engineer" on AVS.

No wonder my wife can "see and hear" the difference an aftermarket power cord makes to the dvd player. Cuz she is NOT a "practicing electrical engineer". She is just "stupid". I will go tell her now. Oh but wait, I am the one who bought the expensive cord without telling her in the first place. She asked me if I changed anything with the tv the first time she "heard and saw" with the new cable installed.

Merry Christmas Mike, and don't tell your wife that otherwise...well, you know.

You definitely sound like a "practicing electrical engineer". Even the choice of words are "identical" to many similar "practicing electrical engineer" on AVS.

No wonder my wife can "see and hear" the difference an aftermarket power cord makes to the dvd player. Cuz she is NOT a "practicing electrical engineer". She is just "stupid". I will go tell her now. Oh but wait, I am the one who bought the expensive cord without telling her in the first place. She asked me if I changed anything with the tv the first time she "heard and saw" with the new cable installed.

Really and can you repeat this test more than once?
Didnt think so.

You definitely sound like a "practicing electrical engineer". Even the choice of words are "identical" to many similar "practicing electrical engineer" on AVS.

No wonder my wife can "see and hear" the difference an aftermarket power cord makes to the dvd player. Cuz she is NOT a "practicing electrical engineer". She is just "stupid". I will go tell her now. Oh but wait, I am the one who bought the expensive cord without telling her in the first place. She asked me if I changed anything with the tv the first time she "heard and saw" with the new cable installed.

By chance was she wearing a pyramid hat when she made that observation?

Jon

By chance was she wearing a pyramid hat when she made that observation?

Jon
nope. She was wearing a high end Clinique mask. Its an audiophile grade.

I was wearing a inverted pyramid hat though. I also lit 13 candles in the HT room. Maybe thats how she got the clue I am on to something. :)

Really and can you repeat this test more than once?
Didnt think so.

Can you save me from this boring blind test, statistical significance **** for once ?

Have you watched Da Vinci code yet ? Does it make one a better person if one can prove or disaprove something that some choose to believe in, whether its real or fictional? Especially if that belief makes those persons feel better and does no harm.

... Does it make one a better person if one can prove or disaprove something that some choose to believe in, whether its real or fictional? Especially if that belief makes those persons feel better and does no harm.

Oh weep for Western Civilization!

Pop psychology makes you feel better. Astrology makes you feel better. Religion makes you feel better. Good sex makes you feel better. Wasting money on expensive power cords makes you feel better. Send me $500 and both of us can feel better!

Not long ago someone noted that this is the AV Science forum. Science is hard. Truth is dificult. The universe doesn't care what you want.

Postings that tout expensive power cords can do harm. They can mislead others into falling for the con.

Can you save me from this boring blind test, statistical significance **** for once ?

Have you watched Da Vinci code yet ? Does it make one a better person if one can prove or disaprove something that some choose to believe in, whether its real or fictional? Especially if that belief makes those persons feel better and does no harm.


No I cant save you from the boring test. BECAUSE IT IS SCIENCE. These snake oil cables are not. And nice way to play off the question. You are the one who said your wife could hear some magic before you told her anything so she should be able to pick it out 30 to 50 more times easy.


The harm is done when someone is duped into buying these things, and told they will hear things like never before. There is enough BS in this world without heaping more on it. all these cables do is increase the profit of the seller nothing more.

Cable schmable, all the talk is about the AC side. So what?

Let's see something on the DC side of the PS - seems any "improvement" made by either a cable or power conditioner would have to make a difference on the DC side to have any kind of effect - good or bad.

OTOH, I suppose there is some mystical property of DC that we don't yet understand or know how to measure. ;)

Even bad sex ain't so bad.

Even bad sex ain't so bad.

Yup. I always say some is better than none.....

If my wife caught me buying a $500 power cord I'd be getting NO SEX!! :(

If my wife caught me buying a $500 power cord I'd be getting NO SEX!! :(

And some guys may even end up painfully being turned into a involuntary eunuch by their wives, if they caught them buying a $500 power cord...

And some guys may even end up painfully being turned into a involuntary eunuch by their wives, if they caught them buying a $500 power cord...

You guys married the wrong woman ! I have cables worth 4 figures and my wife found them sexy. And she found the man who bought them even more sexy than before. :D

You guys married the wrong woman ! I have cables worth 4 figures and my wife found them sexy. And she found the man who bought them even more sexy than before. :D


So, you bought one of those interactive blow up sheep? :D

My deepest condolences wongmb. You must be a pretty ugly fellow if a cable makes you more sexy to women. :p

This has WITHOUT a doubt GOTTA be the most STUPID thread EVER made..."Premium Power Cords...How they make my HT Look/sound BETTER!" You must be the one they target with that magnet thing that you attach to your cars FUEL LINE and it aligns the atoms in the fuel, to burn less gas(of course No one asks...Aligns the atoms to WHAT? THE Pole of a magnet?and how does my STEEL engine know they are aligned, to said magnet?) Now like all STUPID wives tales there is a TINY bit of truth, One is if you have "Dirty" power, say you live Next to a NORAD antenna array, sure a little line conditioning couldn't hurt, but High quality Audio interconnects, and actual equipment have shielding to prevent interferance, of course if you are ANAL, I have seen 3 prong SJT cables with a foil shield, that run 2-3 dollars more than a regular one.I have Nothing against "High End", hell I use 8 guage "Ropelay" Sound King speaker cables, because they lay well and don't tangle, and since I "Custom" make them by putting on the ends a roll, STILL costs FAR less than Monster ones.

P.S. I am going to sound like this "Power Cable " dude, but I do have a STUPID question, if a reciever is say 10 feet from one speaker and 30 feet from the other, would you guys make the speaker cables 10 and 30 feet or BOTH 30 ft to keep things balanced?

I have cables worth 4 figures


Correction....

You have cables that may cost 4 figures, but they certainly are not worth anywhere near 4 figures!

You guys married the wrong woman ! I have cables worth 4 figures and my wife found them sexy. And she found the man who bought them even more sexy than before. :D

What was that brand again?

This has WITHOUT a doubt GOTTA be the most STUPID thread EVER made..."Premium Power Cords...How they make my HT Look/sound BETTER!"

P.S. I am going to sound like this "Power Cable " dude, but I do have a STUPID question, if a reciever is say 10 feet from one speaker and 30 feet from the other, would you guys make the speaker cables 10 and 30 feet or BOTH 30 ft to keep things balanced?

Not stupid at all- perfectly reasonable.

20' (10' each way) feet = 0.0128 ohms 60' (30' each way) feet = 0.0384 ohms

or what's known as a trivial difference. In any case your AVR auto setup or you with an SPL meter will adjust the volume up or down as needed to compensate.

How many of you guys with all the money spent on expensive cords have a dedicated line to your equipment from the main panel?

The reason a dedicated line is important is that if you just plug into any old outlet, you could have as many as 30 connections that could be degrading the power (loose connections) and even worse then that the connections could all be of the stab in type.

Get a electrician to run a dedicated line if you do not have one, alot cheaper then some of these cords.

As long as the electrician is out, have him check for proper voltage at the main panel, you could be at the end of the line getting the crumbs.

Then go get yourself a #2 power cord:)

Deron.

How many of you guys with all the money spent on expensive cords have a dedicated line to your equipment from the main panel?

The reason a dedicated line is important is that if you just plug into any old outlet, you could have as many as 30 connections that could be degrading the power (loose connections) and even worse then that the connections could all be of the stab in type.

Get a electrician to run a dedicated line if you do not have one, alot cheaper then some of these cords.

As long as the electrician is out, have him check for proper voltage at the main panel, you could be at the end of the line getting the crumbs.

Then go get yourself a #2 power cord:)

Deron.

Good advice and I have certainly done that when I have my HT room built. Even with a dedicated line from the panel, a good power cord still makes a noticeable difference. I have demonstrated the difference to a friend and his jaw drops. Even my wife can hear/see the difference made to a dvd player. I wish I cant hear difference on powr cord cuz it will save me a lot of money. Unfortunately I am the unlucky one who can hear the difference. My next upgrade will be speakers though. Done enough tweaking and now the speakers are the bottle neck.
I envy those Science guys who just sandwiched their heads between science text books all day and insist cables are snake oil. Imagine all the money they save :D

I have demonstrated the difference to a friend and his jaw drops. Even my wife can hear/see the difference

Stop the presses, end of thread...no need to continue the discussion.

wongs 'friend' and 'wife' have all the answers ;)

Now there's proof !

My wife tells me I have the biggest pen*s. Thats enough proof for me!

Stop the presses, end of thread...no need to continue the discussion.

wongs 'friend' and 'wife' have all the answers ;)

Now there's proof !

And Targus's post above is a solid proof that he is still the same old Targus. As an*l as he always is. ;)

As an*l as he always is.

I've told you before, stop making sexual suggestions to the members of these forums.

I'm sure you can find sex online....but not here.

My wife tells me I have the biggest pen*s. Thats enough proof for me!

This is why women, in general, don't make good carpenters. Many have been misled as to what 12 inches really is.... ;)

A power cable could make your system sound better. That is a fact. I am not an electrical engineer but I will explain my theory. When current flows thru a cable it creates a magnetic field. If you have another cable running parallel to said cable it will pick up some "noise" from the power cable.. So one could spend 500$ on a quality shielded cable. Or one could do what I do and NOT run power cables along side of signal cables. Also if they need to cross do so at a 90deg angle.

When current flows thru a cable it creates a magnetic field.

There are two closely coupled conductors in the power cord, with current, of equal magnitude but opposite in polarity, flowing through them, the magnetic fields produced largely cancel each other out.
Sheilded cable has no effect on magnetic fields anyway.

yeah they are close but it still will produce a magnetic filed. i would assume that a good quality cable would have the wires twisted inorder to further cancel out the magnetic filed. that would be the best way to try to cancel out the magnetic fileds.

dont get me wrong i would never buy a aftermarket power cable. but to say a quality cable has 0% effect on sound quality is bs. it probably has a .0001% effect.

but to say a quality cable has 0% effect on sound quality is bs.

To suggest that a power cord, shielded or not, has any effect on the "sound", is total BS.

yeah they are close but it still will produce a magnetic filed.

Any current flowing through a conductor produces a proportional magnetic field, you're missing the part about the other conductor though.

A power cable could make your system sound better

hehe, He must work for Monster ;)

A true blind test has proven Extremely Expensive speaker wire to be a waste of money.

A true blind test has proven Extremely Expensive cables to be a waste of money.

A true blind test has proven Extremely Expensive power cables to be a waste of money.

1. Get an education!!

2. Stop believing the sales guy that gets paid minimum wage! There is a reason he works for that much.....HE LACKS EDUCATION.

3. These threads sadly are fun to read just shows how dumb people can be :D

its funny because i would never buy any power cable that was worth more than 10$ but i have to disagree that it offers 0 improvement.

there is something to be gained for a better cord. but is it worth it. nope.

have you ever wondered why cat 5 cable is twisted? its so both wires in each pair get the same magnetic interference and they cancel each other out. if they ran side by side one wire would get slightly more interference. (the one closet to the magnetic filed)

also if you have 2 wires running side by side it would cancel out the field in between the wires but not outside. the filed would be reduced not canceled.

also i never argued they weren't a waste of money. and i never talk to sales guys (other than to tell them what box to get down)

plus if your going from 18 ga to 12 ga the 12 ga cable would have quite a bit less voltage drop under a high current load. but you would still in most cases have 50ft of 14ga going to the outlet...

have you ever wondered why cat 5 cable is twisted? its so both wires in each pair get the same magnetic interference and they cancel each other out.

The differential receiver cancels out the comon mode noise, not the cable.

The differential receiver cancels out the comon mode noise, not the cable.


and cat5 lines deal with higher frequinces then your power cord.

i think the person that first said it (whos name I dont know) is right, when they say...

you can miles of cable from the power company, then hundreds of feet in your house.

yet that 500 dollar 4 foot cable will be a magic fix.

I even saw a british a/v magazine, and they had a review of a sony 40" lcd 1080p, and one of the required accesories was a ~230 dollar power cable. It was very nice looking, their reasoning 'if your spending that kind of money on the tv, might then 10% on the power cord is chump change'.

These people are then plugging the 500 dollar cord into what? a standard 3 prong connector, that costs what? 25 cents? at most a buck.

The truth of the matter is that you can't really shield against magnetic fields. You can either cancel them out or put enough distance between the material and the magnetic field (ie: a foot of air space).

Radio frequency interference is another factor that can effect the frequency on a given cable.

One of those $500 power cables probably mitigates some of the RFI/EMF and may change the magnetic field being generated by the electricity running though the cable. This could in theory reduce the interaction and interference created by the pile of cables strewn out the back of your AV gear.

That all said the amount of magnetic interference given off by a power cord is very minimal and proper cable management would lead to better results than buying the most expensive cables.

The worst offending items would be colling up power cables: coiling causes the electro magnetic field to be concentrated in one area just like the coils in a electro magnet; running signal cables close and parallel to power cords: this would maximize the exposure to EMF; and using too thin cable for the distance the cable runs: thinner cables are more susceptible to EMF/RFI.

You will also find that a lot of the specs that tout the benefits of high end cables are really only better at the extremes (i.e. 60,000Hz or 5Hz). So unless you have super-human ears you aren't going to hear the difference. Yes the cables are technically better but only your dog will get the most out of your $500 power cable.

Typically the threshold of human hearing is between 20Hz and 20,000Hz. You can't hear under 20Hz with your ears but you can feel it. There is also debate whether people are actually effected by frequencies higher than 20KHz.

For more on Phsycoacoustics see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoacoustic_model

coiling causes the electro magnetic field to be concentrated in one area just like the coils in a electro magnet;

No, as mentioned in a previous post, there are two conductors in a power cable, each one carrying current of the same magnitude, but of opposite polarity, resulting in a large cancellation of any inductance.

thinner cables are more susceptible to EMF/RFI.


No, wire guage has nothing to do with it's susceptibility to induced interference. Circuit impedance has everything to do with it though.

So we've pretty much kicked out the idea that 'hi-end' power cords offer definite improvements.

How about the 'best' gauge for a 30 foot run from a JVC dila three chip projector to a ups?

check out this site:
http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

Go to the bottom of the pg and you can enter wire size, length and amps and it will calculate voltage drop. 18 gage for 30'/6 amp draw is about 1.5% drop in voltage. Going to 14 gage takes the voltage drop to about .5%. These are just rough numbers I plugged in as I'm not sure what your PJ draws.

I have a custom made power cord I will sell at a good price. I used it to run my Sharp 10k PJ to my power conditioner in my former HT. I moved and no longer need it with my new design. Has Wattgate Hospital grade plug at wall end and right angle int'l plug at the PJ end. 14/3 wire 26' in length.

I guess the next obvious question is, how much voltage reduction can the projector handle before deleterious visible effects occurs? It consumes 280 watts, which by equation =, about 3 amps, which if true, shows a very small voltage drop over 30 feet of 18g and less so at 14g, but does that have any effect on projected images or does the internal electronics of projectors in general have a way of 'correcting' for 'small' voltage fluctuations and when does 'small' become 'large'?
Hmmm...the cost differential between the two may be negligible compared to trying to get all the right answers to this!!

I guess the next obvious question is, how much voltage reduction can the projector handle before deleterious visible effects occurs? It consumes 280 watts, which by equation =, about 3 amps, which if true, shows a very small voltage drop over 30 feet of 18g and less so at 14g, but does that have any effect on projected images or does the internal electronics of projectors in general have a way of 'correcting' for 'small' voltage fluctuations and when does 'small' become 'large'?
Hmmm...the cost differential between the two may be negligible compared to trying to get all the right answers to this!!

Your projector should work within a certain voltage range, say for example 110-130VAC without any noticeable problems. The power supply in the projector should accommodate variances within the stated range. This information should be in your owners manual. The voltage drop on your cables will be negligible except for very long runs. I would not worry too much about it.

Your projector should work within a certain voltage range, say for example 110-130VAC without any noticeable problems. The power supply in the projector should accommodate variances within the stated range. This information should be in your owners manual. The voltage drop on your cables will be negligible except for very long runs. I would not worry too much about it.

Thanks, that's a relief, finally something that doesn't require a degree in electronics engineering to determine if your home theater is performing well or not. Of course, I probably will still have an ISF calibrator come in to tweak my RS2 and Radiance XD, but even then, I don't think they deal with hardware choices unless it interferes significantly with the final picture.

I would like to thank you all. Because of this thread, I was laughing so hard I woke the baby :eek:

Now - she who must be obeyed - is going to kick my a$$.

BTW, the best one I have seen yet, was a guy at the home theater expo in NYC a few years back trying to sell $120 ceramic hockey pucks to raise power cords off the floor. It was to reduce inductive loses. Where the he11 is that perpetual motion machine I built a few years ago, I think I might have a buyer:D