OK, so here is another request for advice between two products.

Frankly, I am very surprised that there aren't more people asking about the B&K product. I was sold on the CAV6.6, until I found this, it has 9 inputs, and there is a companion device for HD switching that mates with the main unit via RS-232. The price seems about the same between the two (although the HD component does add to the cost of the B&K).

I am still deciding between the two, and the russound seems to be more widely accepted. Does anyone else have an opinion on which is the better product, and why?

Russound has an HD switcher also, which connects to the RNET.
Steve

I currently own a CAV 6.6. Is there a available HD Switcher??? If so what is a part number and how how does it work with RNET protocal? Thanks

The Russound HD switcher has been announced, but is not shipping yet. It distributes component video over CAT5 and can integrate with the CAV, CAM or CAA66 controller and interfaces via RNET.

Looks to be a neat unit as it can also upconvert from composite or S-Video sources. See page 3 of the Russound newsletter linked below for more information:

http://www.russound.com/pdf/russoundings/russoundings_5-2.pdf

Cheers,
Paul

The model is the VM1 Video Matrix unit. It comes in five flavors:
(a) VM1-4 4x4 video matrix for component video sourceds
(b) VM1-4UC 4x4 component video with S-video and composite video up-conversion on 2 sources
(c) VM1-8 8x8 component video matrix
(d) VM1-8UC 8x8 component video matrix switch with S-Video and composite video up-conversion on 2 sources
(e) VM1-8UC2 8x8 component video matrix switch with S-video and composite video up-conversion on 4 sources.

Video signals are transmitted over a single CAT5 cable per port.
Shipping this summer.
Can be controlled via RNET, or RS-232.

Steve

Has this product started shipping yet

Not that I know of.

And to answer another of the OPs questions, the reason there is no talk on these boards about the B&K CT series (or really any B&K products) is that they are only available through a limited authorized dealer base. Russound is available on the net to anyone.

does anyone know if the vm1 video switcher from russound ever shipped or was it vaporware?

Don

So far vaporware but I have seen other posts that it is coming out. I asked a dealer and he indicated June. I have gone directly to Russound and they say keep checking back - but no information. This is somewhat ridiculous to announce something a year before it hits the market.

This product would be great if it does as billed.

I heard June as well last time I asked my Rep.

I was on the phone with Russound tech support a couple weeks ago and they had just received their units for training & testing. Hopefully this is indication that the product will be available this summer as stated?

Cheers,
Paul

does anyone have a SWAG as to a price.

I guess the big question is how much of a premium are they going to try to get for rnet integration?

Re the B&K stuff. I ve owned a couple of analog B&K preamps and an older surround sound processor. I love their stuff. but their keypads appear to be pretty inferior to the Russound (and Nuvo for that matter) pads.

Don

I want to say the 8x8 was approximately $2k - but I can't remember where I got that from. It is the price that I have stuck in my head as that is the unit I am looking for. I can't think of another device that will integrate easily into my CAV. Right now HD switching is a nightmare with a mass of component cable go everyware and not an easy push button solution for switching.

Is it only me that thinks it's odd that their HD switches come out in a 4x and 8x flavor but the CAV is in a 6x flavor?

The CAV6.6 seems like a nice unit for what I want and what I'd grow into, but I'm not sure 6 source zones will be enough, 8 would be nice and since the 6.6 has been out for 4 years now, me wonders if a 8.8 is in the works? Doubt it, but would be nice.

sort of. the CAV has the ability to take 8 inputs and output to 6 six zones. However you can actually have more than 6 zones - they are just not operated independantly. As an example you can have separate rooms controlled by one zone. Those people just have to be listening to the same thing. I am guessing that the last two outputs on the 8X8 could be used in this fashion. Just guessing. Allowing you to send high definition video to two additional rooms. I am assuming that those two rooms will be tied to the main zones - kind of convoluted but I am assuming how it works.

And then again you can also daisy chain the CAV which adds a whole other level of complexity.

RT

I have and love the B&K stuff, the keypads are fine if you use Universal Remotes like the 850, they program and work the same, it is true that they keypads are not real flashy but they work good, someday I will use a more web enabled touch screen, but I am fine with them for now. I do not have nor have I used Russound, but I was influenced by the features and sound quality of the B&K the sound is just awesome, way beyond what I would have expected for a multizone.

The B&K are also very flexible, programming via pc or on screen. I agree with the original post, the B&K products should be much more popular.

in a very cursory review of the B and K stuff - I agree. It is much more feature rich than the russound stuff in my opinion. Unfortunately i do not want to forklift my investment in russound to convert over which is why I am waiting for the VM. My experience with B&K has been excellent (I own their amps and preamps). Great sound quality.

Richard,
Can you explain what you mean by feature rich? I dont own anything yet and am interested in what you see as a bK advantage.

Thanks,

Don

Band K has a number of capabilities (features) that are not present in the Russound:

1) the ability to distribute and switch HD via cat 5 or component - russound only does composite - big deal/feature for me
2) the ability to take nine inputs vs 8 and output to 6 zones. Russound has 8 - not a big deal
3) the ability to upconvert s video and composite so that you can take your high definition sources and standard definition sources and send them over the same cat 5 wire to your tv. This is a big deal as I have to toggle on my TV's from composite to component. I have some composite feeds like my escient fireball. I also have an old non hd tivo that I use - because of my lack of high definition switching capability.


The russound and B&k pretty much do the same thing - it is jus the B&k does it with high definition. I have high definition all over my house and I have a convoluted way of switching right now. I have to use a zektor switch which I manually access - there is a way to program this into the russound but I have to press a number of buttons on the remote and it is not seemless.

So not a lot of features/capabilities - but high impact for me - as I pretty much want to do everything via component or high definition.

Once the VM comes out the russound will look more like the Bandk.

not to mention i can replace my gaggle of component and composite cable i have strung all over the place and replace with a single cat 5. This will make it so it does not look like i am running a power plant out of the back of my equipment rack

Her you go:

Rick,

Thank you for contacting Russound. Due to certain factors , the unit did not meet the release date mentioned in the article. We're looking at a Fall 2007 release date and hope to meet this timeframe.

Regards,


Howard Koiles
Technical Sales Department
Customer Support Group
Russound/FMP
5 Forbes Rd
Newmarket, NH 03857 USA
Tel: 603-659-5170
Fax: 603-659-5388

Hmm the b &K is sounding better.
Is there a way around their clunky keypads. I dont just want to select a source, I want to pick stations, select songs/albums/artists off of either an ipod or a music server.

Are the keypads working for you ok?

Don
p.s. you've definitely piqued my interest. I really love the way b &K stuff sounds.

Sure, each key can do a macro so it can select a station etc. in fact one of my favorite things is to have a HD video source like VOOM equator on the screen while I am playing music from either Sirius or my Home Theater PC. The BK does all of this very easily once you set it up, which is also straight forward.

The keypads have a dedicated Favorites button that link to 50 macro buttons (10 buttons X 5 pages) that you name, each is dedicated to linking you to a presets (macros) of your choosing. they can select your stations, but they can do so much more if you want, for example they could select a source, change the level of the sub to a preset value, change the channel of the satellite box, etc. etc.

The keypads are fine, they are logical and work well, their biggest limitation for me is that there is only 5 characters for naming. So you have to be creative in some cases.

My wife and I use our remotes more then the keypads, I expect I will replace the keypads someday with a video screen of some sort that can show the weather etc. but I bet we will still use the remotes for normal control of media.

I hope this helps, I have no connection with BK but I am so thrilled with the products that I am astounded they are not more popular, to me it is also cool they are made in the USA.

My wife and I use our remotes more then the keypads, I expect I will replace the keypads someday with a video screen of some sort that can show the weather etc. but I bet we will still use the remotes for normal control of media.


I've been looking at the B&K and the Grand Concerto. What remotes do you use with the B&K? Were the difficult to integrate?

i would echo the statement about using the remotes. I have the russound keypad but I prefer using the remotes.

hmm. all good stuff. One thought. If people tend to use the remotes as much or more than the kdypad, the Nuvo seems more interesting. Its big bright display would work very well with remotes because it could be seen across the room.

It doesnt have video switching, but if you're going to add an HD switcher, then thats ok. As long as the switcher can be integrated in with the Grand Concerto.

Thoughts?

Don
by the way, output power is not that important to me. I've managed to pick up 2 used ATi amps, a 1506 and a 1504 to drive the zones where I'll be more concerned about sound quality.

The Remotes are not difficult to integrate at all, I use the Universal Remote 850 http://www.universalremote.com/pro/products.php I chose this remote because it works just like the keypads, both the keypads and the remotes are programed and customized by the same PC program. The keypads are made for BK by Universal Remote. I appreciate being able to program them by PC, it is easier to update things when a channel number changes etc. This way my remotes and keypads are the same in each room so there is a consistency in how things work for us. I even use in the home theater.

I also control our home theater PC and the lights in the theater with the remotes and keypad, hit on the lights come on the screen comes on, etc.

The remotes integrate easy, they control all functions of the BK, Bass, Treble Presets like having one source on one screen while you have another source for audio. You can mute your entire system from any remote or keypad, etc.

You could use the RF capabilities of the Remotes but I do not.

I use the BK 600 as my IR hub, all IR goes in and out of it directly, the keypads have IR receivers but I put receivers by my screens instead and have them fed and power by the BK. It takes time to get used to the PC program for setting up the remotes and keypads but once you do you will enjoy being able to make it do what your wife wants it to do. <grin>

Sorry if I missed this in your message. Do the remotes also show what's playing? i.e. bi-directional feedback?

The keypads do not have bidirectional ability(as far as displaying track info). The only feedback you get on the keypad is the local zones volume, tone controls, source, and a few other things. I am not sure on the remote, but if I would hazard a guess, I would say they do not have any bi-directional support.

I went with the B&K CT-600 and HD-6. I am very pleased with the sound quality. I have HD running to 4 zones now, and cannot complain about the PQ either over cat-5 or component.

For control, I am using CQC. I wrote a driver for the CT (and HD-6) and it works very well. With this control, I really do not use the keypads much...

However, I am now having a problem with video switching on the HD, and was wondering if anyone else is experiencing something similar. when I switch sources, the HD does not track to the same input as the CT. this is resolved if I hard boot the HD, and then change the source. it just seems that after being on for some time, it seems to lose it's connection with the CT. Has anyone else experienced this issue?

Rob,
I think I have had the HD switching issue once, but it was after a power failure, like you a reset fixed it. But I believe it has only happened once or twice.

JustinJMiller,
The Universal Remotes have no feed back. I use the HD screens for feed back via Media Center PC. The screens show cover art etc. Like Rob said if I become confused what is on, I might check the keypad to see what the volume level is or if the system is muted, the keypads will tell you that.

Delos

sort of. the CAV has the ability to take 8 inputs and output to 6 six zones.
RT

Richard- can you expand on how the CAV will accept 8 source inputs?
Thanks,

Jon

Just a reminder, if you don't like the B&K keypads (there are two, one has Bi-directional RS-232, one does not) you could always use a control system to control the B&K CT600.x and HD6.

For example, CQC would do it, as would a Crestron CP2E, albeit the Crestron route is dealer only, while I hear CQC can be diy... I'm not sure I can bring myself to spend the money on keypads when I'm way more likely to use a wireless remote... distributed IR might be enough for me!

sorry - my mistake. 7 inputs - 6 on the rear and 1 in the front. Only stereo and composite inputs

It is the Russound UNO remote that has button control for 8 inputs

I agree with A.I. I could do with out the keypads, and will go with CQC or something like it when I find the touch screen displays I would want to use something like an UMPC.

I have two keypads I use a lot, one is actually on the wall behind my desk, the other is outside on our patio, in both locations I would prefer not to deal with a remote. The others only get minor use as once you are on the couch etc. you use a remote and do not want to get up to visit a keypad.

Here's a question about the B&K...

On the CT600.x, I would like to use the composite video for digital audio, and the low level stereo with the digital audio to one location, while running the high level speaker outs to a different location, sort of like a sub zone.

Can the control of the high level audio be segregated from the low level audio/composite video?

You can adjust each zones low level stereo output to either fixed or variable, with fixed you would control the volume externally. When you use fixed, the audio signal even flows when the zone is off. But the composite video does not. So you could use the volume control in the unit to control the amplified audio and your external amp or volume control to control the volume. I split a zone like this. It gives me a 7th zone, I connect it to stereo reciever. I have never used the composite video for digital audio, but I have read it works and of course there is no volume control.