As further reinforcement for what I've already read, I was at Comp USA and watched a Samsung BD player hooked up to the big Sony SRX playing the 5th Element Blu-Ray edition. The picture was arguably no better if not worse than the Superbit 5th Element on my Toshiba A1.

At Best Buy I see the Superbit titles being blown out for $10 a pop. Many of these titles are affiliated with Sony Pictures like Men in Black I & II and so on. Being its unlikely any time soon these titles will be released in HD DVD, I'd say if you have a HD DVD player, pick up whichever of these titles are on your short list.

I never really compared a superbit to a basic DVD. Is the superbit noticeably better? I only ask because A Knight's Tale is among my wife's favorite fun to watch movies and it is unfortunately a Sony movie so no HD-DVD. But, if the superbit is much better and with the HD-DVD's upconversion ability it might just work as an interim solution. So, my question is - are the superbit versions really better or are they mostly marketing fluff?

-Kaediil

I would say it's mostly marketing fluff. But there is a noticeable improvement on SOME of the titles. Others like Underworld , I noticed no difference. However, these do include the DTS audio tracks.

I never really compared a superbit to a basic DVD. Is the superbit noticeably better? I only ask because A Knight's Tale is among my wife's favorite fun to watch movies and it is unfortunately a Sony movie so no HD-DVD. But, if the superbit is much better and with the HD-DVD's upconversion ability it might just work as an interim solution. So, my question is - are the superbit versions really better or are they mostly marketing fluff?

-Kaediil

There is a tremendous amount of difference in the encoding rate of the movie, usually 25%-100%. Also, in some cases it's the only way to get a DTS track on that title.

http://www.hifi-writer.com/he/superbit/superbit.htm

Thanks for the link it convinced me enough to give it a shot on my setup. Gonna see if someplace has one for rent I can try out for myself.

-Kaediil

Thanks for the link it convinced me enough to give it a shot on my setup. Gonna see if someplace has one for rent I can try out for myself.

-Kaediil
Better not let it go too long. The Superbit series is discontinued and it seems only Best Buy has them for $9.99! I scored MIB I & II, Guns of Navarone, From Here To Eternity, Mask of Zorro, The Patriot, Snatch and another copy of the 5th Element (for backup). In some cases they were the last ones in the store. In others, I had to go to another Best Buy.

Most of these, maybe all, are Sony Pictures, so don't expect them on HD DVD anytime soon. So far, I'd say they are better than my regular non-Superbit versions and approach HD, at least compared to the DISH Network HD channels.

Still looking for Heavy Metal, Lawrence of Arabia, Leon, Das Boot, Black Hawk Down and Tommy. Glad I have Starship Troopers already. That's a tough one to find.

I did the same thing; when I got my HD-DVD player I swung by Best Buy and picked up 6 or 7 superbit titles for $10 each.

Like almost all Sony DVDs, the Superbit discs all have edge enhancement problems. They generally look better than the non-Superbit edition of the same movie, but that has more to do with the mediocrity of Sony's non-Superbit discs than any inherent benefits of the Superbit mastering process.

Like almost all Sony DVDs, the Superbit discs all have edge enhancement problems. They generally look better than the non-Superbit edition of the same movie, but that has more to do with the mediocrity of Sony's non-Superbit discs than any inherent benefits of the Superbit mastering process.
Hmmmm....that contradicts these findings.....somone's right or both are part right or part wrong?

http://www.hifi-writer.com/he/superbit/superbit.htm

Oh well, at least most people agree a Superbit DVD is preferable to the standard edition, especially when you can get it for $9.99 and the regular one is the same or higher price. ;)

I still believe that in general "Superbit" amounts to pure marketing. :o

The SB editions of Sony's films may look and sound better, but I've seen other studios release DVDs of superior quality with ease with no special labeling or increase in MSRP...with extras included.

Yeah it's different with every release. The Fifth Element looks a lot better on Superbit, but The Patriot is swimming with artifacts. Still, it's the best we're going to get.

be advised that the 2-disc SE's of The Fifth Element and Leon: The Professional include the superbit discs, so you might as well get them with a bonus disc.

Hmmmm....that contradicts these findings.....somone's right or both are part right or part wrong?

http://www.hifi-writer.com/he/superbit/superbit.htm

Again, if the non-Superbit edition from the same studio is mediocre, putting out the decent-quality edition they should have released the first time around is of course going to seem like a dramatic improvement. That says less about Superbit than it says about the studio.

There are plenty of DVDs from other studios that are as good or better than "Superbit" discs that get released without a fancy marketing label.

IMO Superbit will never be a good substitute for a true HD transfer,
I was watching spiderman Superbit and 5th element Superbit and even when upscaled do not compare with HD content. Its still overly soft looking and thick fuzzy borders on objects and backgrounds.

However Find me Guilty dvd transfer is very good upscaled. that film though still not a good substute for true hd blows away any superbit transfer Ive seen to this date.

I guess we could call Blu-ray, SuperSuperBit?

IMO Superbit will never be a good substitute for a true HD transfer,
I was watching spiderman Superbit and 5th element Superbit and even when upscaled do not compare with HD content. Its still overly soft looking and thick fuzzy borders on objects and backgrounds.

However Find me Guilty dvd transfer is very good upscaled. that film though still not a good substute for true hd blows away any superbit transfer Ive seen to this date.

I guess we could call Blu-ray, SuperSuperBit?


how about Super-SuperShit :p

-Gary

I have the SuperBit of "The Fifth Element" and have seen it many times in demos and shootouts.

The BD version is overall better. I find it inconsistent. Some scenes are beautiful, other are grainy and soft, even scenes with little motion. But overall better than the Superbit.

The original version of TFE was also demonstration-quality BTW. Many of the movies Sony pressed in SuperBit had excellent original disks (e.g., Lawrence).

I never really compared a superbit to a basic DVD. Is the superbit noticeably better? I only ask because A Knight's Tale is among my wife's favorite fun to watch movies and it is unfortunately a Sony movie so no HD-DVD. But, if the superbit is much better and with the HD-DVD's upconversion ability it might just work as an interim solution. So, my question is - are the superbit versions really better or are they mostly marketing fluff?

-Kaediil

I've noticed a worthwhile improvement on every SB disc I've watched. Plus I prefer the DTS soundtrack -- a win-win for me :) (That includes A Knight's Tale:))

-- Trevor

Yeah it's different with every release. The Fifth Element looks a lot better on Superbit, but The Patriot is swimming with artifacts. Still, it's the best we're going to get.

be advised that the 2-disc SE's of The Fifth Element and Leon: The Professional include the superbit discs, so you might as well get them with a bonus disc.

The definition provided by SB The Patriot is easily superior to the standard -- I directly compared them.

-- Trevor

IMO Superbit will never be a good substitute for a true HD transfer,
I was watching spiderman Superbit and 5th element Superbit and even when upscaled do not compare with HD content. Its still overly soft looking and thick fuzzy borders on objects and backgrounds.

However Find me Guilty dvd transfer is very good upscaled. that film though still not a good substute for true hd blows away any superbit transfer Ive seen to this date.

And if there is no HD release, then just what do you propose? Nobody here is suggesting SB competes with HD. Got any other ideas?

-- Trevor

Well I stopped on the way home and picked up Bad Boys and A Knight's Tale SB editions. I was a bit surprised and almost took the Knight's Tale back since it was marked 22.99. But since it is was for my wife I took it and to my delight it rang up 9.99. Thanks for the info everyone.

-Kaediil

Nobody here is suggesting SB competes with HD. Got any other ideas?

-- Trevor


title
Superbit Titles as Blu-Ray Alternative

I stopped at mine and got Dracula, Bad Boys, TFE, The Patriot, Spiderman, and Snatch. Wanted to get Starship Troopers but couldn't find it :(

yeah the title clearly means that as hd-dvd owners if you want these flicks to go buy the superbit versions hence bluray alternative. Riding a horse would be an alternative to driving but it doesn't mean they're equal.


As for the superbit stuff...even though i own a few superbit dvds the reality is it is just a Sony marketing thing because as stated, other studios can get as good/better PQ and they dont ened to whip out some premium line. Also, comparing the SB versions to the originals is useless because as stated, all that says is the originals could have been done better although many I believe were early release dvds so on the SB versions they were able to better use the tools to provide better looking movies.

title
Yeah, I'm the thread starter and I stand by what the title is.

Alternative does not mean replacement that will deliver the same performance in all respects. It is simply making the best of the woefull situation that these titles are ~not~ available for us in the HD DVD camp, at least until hell get's frost on it. So what do we all do? We want these titles, and I suggest that the Toshiba product with its excellent upscaling and high bit process of Superbit competes (within reason) with the lackluster performance of the current state of the Blu-Ray art, most of the SD mastering and what you get on your cable and sat providers. :rolleyes:

However, HD DVD ROCKS! :D

title

I don't follow you.

Just because buying SB is an alternative to buying a Blue-Ray player, still doesn't mean it competes with HD-DVD. Perhaps you could more fully explain.

Thanks -- Trevor

yeah the title clearly means that as hd-dvd owners if you want these flicks to go buy the superbit versions hence bluray alternative. Riding a horse would be an alternative to driving but it doesn't mean they're equal.


As for the superbit stuff...even though i own a few superbit dvds the reality is it is just a Sony marketing thing because as stated, other studios can get as good/better PQ and they dont ened to whip out some premium line. Also, comparing the SB versions to the originals is useless because as stated, all that says is the originals could have been done better although many I believe were early release dvds so on the SB versions they were able to better use the tools to provide better looking movies.

No question about your first paragragh, that's as obvious as the title itself.

On your second paragraph, I don't think anyone is claiming Superbit looks better than everything else, only that the Superbit version of a given title is higher definition than the original of the same title, and also tends to be an especially good transfer. From my personal experience, they are generally higher definition than the vast majority of other title transfers as well.

Just because one dislikes Sony doesn't mean everything they produce is BS.

-- Trevor

I stopped at mine and got Dracula, Bad Boys, TFE, The Patriot, Spiderman, and Snatch. Wanted to get Starship Troopers but couldn't find it :(

Starship Troopers Superbit rocks! One of my favs, always good when I need a laugh.

Seeing this thread I shopped Superbit DVD's on Amazon. (Despite my name here, it's actually 50 miles to Tucson & the nearest BB.) I picked up "Legends of the Fall" SB off Amazon Marketplace for $9.99. Watched it last night & it was terriffic. Hadn't seen the movie in years & really enjoyed it. The PQ was as good or better than some of the "HD Lite" channels like TNT HD or HD Movie Net on Dishnetwork.

As an alternative to BD, some of these Superbit discs on clearance sale is a good alternative - for enjoying a movie in mpeg2 technology. ;)

As further reinforcement for what I've already read, I was at Comp USA and watched a Samsung BD player hooked up to the big Sony SRX playing the 5th Element Blu-Ray edition. The picture was arguably no better if not worse than the Superbit 5th Element on my Toshiba A1.

At Best Buy I see the Superbit titles being blown out for $10 a pop. Many of these titles are affiliated with Sony Pictures like Men in Black I & II and so on. Being its unlikely any time soon these titles will be released in HD DVD, I'd say if you have a HD DVD player, pick up whichever of these titles are on your short list.
You sir, are 100% correct! :)

I have been selling my SD DVDs and because of the low value they were offering for my Superbit movies I decided to hold on to those.

After reading your thread a few days ago my wife and I decided to test out your theory last night. We fired up the HD-A1 and put on "Underworld" in Superbit, and all I have to say is WOW! :eek:

We have seen "Underworld II" playing on Blu-ray at BB; and I can honestly say that the Superbit versions play about as well as any Blu-ray presentation that we have ever seen! It actually looks like BD's HD! :eek:

We had no idea that the Superbit versions had incredibly enhanced PQ! I only bought them because they had DTS sound that rocks.

I am going to BB today to buy "Spiderman I & II" and "Bad Boys I & II" in Superbit! :)

Maybe Sony will be releasing a Superbit BD version of The Fifth Element since they screwed the regular release up.

You sir, are 100% correct! :)

I have been selling my SD DVDs and because of the low value they were offering for my Superbit movies so I decided to hold on to those.

After reading your thread a few days ago my wife and I decided to test out your theory last night. We fired up the HD-A1 and put on "Underworld" in Superbit, and all I have to say is WOW! :eek:

We have seen "Underworld II" playing on Blu-ray at BB; and I can honestly say that the Superbit versions play about as well as any Blu-ray presentation that we have ever seen! It actually looks like BD's HD! :eek:

We had no idea that the Superbit versions had incredibly enhanced PQ! I only bought them because they had DTS sound that rocks.

I am going to BB today to buy "Spiderman I & II" and "Bad Boys I & II" in Superbit! :)

The biggest advantage SB offers is it's refusal to include the space consuming extras that are overfilling the typical multi-dip releases today (motion menus are also banished). SB provides the maximum bit space for the film, while including very good 448 KB/s DD5.1 and ~750Kb/s DTS original language tracks (plus optional subtitle and 192Kb/s DPL tracks).

As long as reasonable attention is paid to the film encoding, a decided improvement over most other SD offerings on the market is almost certain due to the bandwidth allocation. (Recognizing the SB's start with a reaonable quality master to begin with -- evidenced by the typically well above average transfer of the original release DVD).

No, it doesn't mean SB transfers are flawless, but it's at least an honest attempt to target a particular niche market -- much the same one that HD-DVD and BR are currently being received by. The video/film enthusiast. I just hope its lack of great success doesn't imply too much for the HD disc formats.

-- Trevor

The biggest advantage SB offers is it's refusal to include the space consuming extras that are overfilling the typical multi-dip releases today (motion menus are also banished). SB provides the maximum bit space for the film, while including very good 448 KB/s DD5.1 and ~750Kb/s DTS original language tracks (plus optional subtitle and 192Kb/s DPL tracks).

As long as reasonable attention is paid to the film encoding, a decided improvement over most other SD offerings on the market is almost certain due to the bandwidth allocation. (Recognizing the SB's start with a reaonable quality master to begin with -- evidenced by the typically well above average transfer of the original release DVD).

No, it doesn't mean SB transfers are flawless, but it's at least an honest attempt to target a particular niche market -- much the same one that HD-DVD and BR are currently being received by. The video/film enthusiast. I just hope its lack of great success doesn't imply too much for the HD disc formats.

-- Trevor
Thanks for the explanation. This stuff rocks! It really shows off the superior upconverting abilities of the HD-A1!

We fired up the HD-A1 and put on "Underworld" in Superbit, and all I have to say is WOW! :eek:
Actually the Unrated DVD has superior image quality. Possibly one of the best transfers ever on the format. :)

I only wish my A1 played my Japanese Last Action Hero Superbit... :(

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/7797/b00008w56m01ss500sclzzzzzzzv64465359zn7.jpg

Superbit dvds are still standard def and really no better than non-SB titles that have been done correctly, upconverted or not.

Superbit dvds are still standard def and really no better than non-SB titles that have been done correctly, upconverted or not.

You're saying the quality of the picture is completely independent of the number of extras crammed onto the disc?

-- Trevor

Actually the Unrated DVD has superior image quality. Possibly one of the best transfers ever on the format. :)

I only wish my A1 played my Japanese Last Action Hero Superbit... :(


DVD+R DL

I'm pleased to see many in this thread confirming my original premise. Many SD DVDs look awful on a 50" plasma even with the excellent upconversion of the HD-A1. There's only so far you can go with a sow's ear. However, with good masters that aren't choked for bandwidth, performance improves dramatically in almost any player, but especially in an excellent player like the A1 or XA1. Those of you audiophiles who own Mobile Fidelity gold CDs and vinyl will probably agree it was worth it on your stereo systems.

The kicker here, is the Superbit line is being blown out at $9.98. This makes them the greatest current bargain in DVD. Let's also not forget, being a Sony Columbia Tri-Star thing, you will probably not own a better copy unless you buy a Blu-Ray player and wait until they are released in BD. Some titles may never make it there.

At $9.98 it's a no brainer I say. ;)

You're saying the quality of the picture is completely independent of the number of extras crammed onto the disc?

Encoding and transfer quality are bigger factors if the picture isn't crippled by filtering.

Encoding and transfer quality are bigger factors if the picture isn't crippled by filtering.

Of courser encoding quality and transfer quality are critical, but that isn't the issue at hand. All other things being equal, bit budget is critical in getting a superior SD picture. The less bandwidth available to the picture, the less definition that can be expected. Compression isn't free. The heavier the compression with the given codec, the more is lost.

SD may define the native scan resolution, but it doesn't define the delivered picture quality. All SD are anything BUT equal -- yet that is what your statement effectively asserted.

-- Trevor

I don't think I said that all SD is on the same level. Just that Superbit dvds are really no better than other non-SB dvds that have been authored correctly with minimal filtering and decent compression. But Bitrate isn't everything. A clean grain/noise-free image with a low bitrate can look better than a high bitrate picture with lots of noise.

I don't think I said that all SD is on the same level. Just that Superbit dvds are really no better than other non-SB dvds that have been authored correctly with minimal filtering and decent compression. But Bitrate isn't everything. A clean grain/noise-free image with a low bitrate can look better than a high bitrate picture with lots of noise.
That said, I have over a dozen Superbit discs and every one has been impressive, I mean ~really~ impressive in both PQ and excellent DTS soundtracks. I haven't found a title yet that is just high bit rate but noisy and grainy. I don't think you can go wrong with this series. Nice that they now (at the moment) cost less than most non-Superbit editions. They were $26.98 and can be had at BB for $9.98. What's not to like except that the more popular titles are disappearing from the shelves?

I don't think I said that all SD is on the same level. Just that Superbit dvds are really no better than other non-SB dvds that have been authored correctly with minimal filtering and decent compression. But Bitrate isn't everything. A clean grain/noise-free image with a low bitrate can look better than a high bitrate picture with lots of noise.


Here is exactly what you said:

"Superbit dvds are still standard def and really no better than non-SB titles that have been done correctly, upconverted or not. "

And I very clearly never said or implied bitrate is everything -- I specifically said this:

"All other things being equal, bit budget is critical in getting a superior SD picture."

Done -- Trevor

I picked up 7 titles tonite at BB...

Thanks for the Heads-up on the price drop...

Mac

As in reference to superbit being a marketing scam or hype, whatever some wish to be concerned about, i think it was just a way of trying to get a better product out on the market and not a scam at all. Lets face it, like anything, if you want something of good quality, then we tend to pay that little extra for it no matter what it is anyway. Well that is generally the way it works until something new comes along. For example "blue ray". I wonder if blue ray or any other hi def was known about before superbit was introduced?. I think superbit was meant to just be a step up from the original titles. Mind you, i think that if a company is going to bring out something better in quality, they are going to want the extra cash. Unfortunatly thats business, scam or not. I totally agree with Trevors coments. Regards Grassy

I picked up 7 titles tonite at BB...

Thanks for the Heads-up on the price drop...

Mac
They rock.

So far I've got Das Boot, From Here To Eternity, The Guns of Navarone, MIB I & II, Starship Troopers, Leon: The Professional, The 5th Element, The Big Hit, Dracula, Snatch, Mask of Zorrow, Desperado, Air Force One, The Patriot and Once Upon A Time in Mexico.

Still looking for Black Hawk Down, Lawrence of Arabia, and Heavy Metal (first one). BB just doesn't have these. Might have to get them on Amazon, but not at $9.98!

As in reference to superbit being a marketing scam or hype, whatever some wish to be concerned about, i think it was just a way of trying to get a better product out on the market and not a scam at all.

It's funny though how other studios managed to release reference quality discs without any mention of a high bitrate process but still managed to keep the extras and bonus materials. ;)

It's funny though how other studios managed to release reference quality discs without any mention of a high bitrate process but still managed to keep the extras and bonus materials. ;)
Yea, i never thought about it like that. It does make you think. Maybe someone else here could try and answer that, i would be interested to hear their opinion :)

Yea, i never thought about it like that. It does make you think. Maybe someone else here could try and answer that, i would be interested to hear their opinion :)
Just taking a break from watching Air Force One (Superbit). Nice job, looks great on my 50" plasma. Just curious, what are a few examples of anything that's better in SD with all the extras (on the same disc), like real reference quality? OK, maybe not. Now what's at least as good? What size set are you watching it on? ;)

Just taking a break from watching Air Force One (Superbit). Nice job, looks great on my 50" plasma. Just curious, what are a few examples of anything that's better in SD with all the extras (on the same disc), like real reference quality? OK, maybe not. Now what's at least as good? What size set are you watching it on? ;)

I had the same question in mind. I've yet to see a high quality transfer on a disc with major extra content.

-- Trevor

PS. An example that's been pointed out to me is "Master And Commander". I agree it's a good transfer, but hardly reference. I considered purchasing the dual disc release, but realized the feature disc is the same as in the single -- crammed full of extras. It definitely shows in the picture definition.

It seems like the Superbits will be the main source of good PQ for the Blu-ray boys as well. :D

It seems that WB Blu=ray releases will be encoded in MPEG-2! :D

Check out this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=702284

The first batch will be MPEG-2. After that, we should be seeing WB use VC-1 for both HD DVD and BD.

Just curious, what are a few examples of anything that's better in SD with all the extras (on the same disc), like real reference quality? OK, maybe not. Now what's at least as good?

There's a whole boat load mentioned in the Real Reference thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=358365

Probably not a lot have all the extras on the same disc but most at least have a commentary/trailer. Only a select few Superbits have extras on the same disc(Spiderman, 5th Element, Panic Room, etc).

Probably not a lot have all the extras on the same disc but most at least have a commentary/trailer. Only a select few Superbits have extras on the same disc(Spiderman, 5th Element, Panic Room, etc).
There are *NO* Superbit titles with extras on the same disc. The "rules" of Superbit dictate that the disc include only the movie, with Dolby and DTS soundtracks in original language, and possibly subtitles. In fact, this is the most common complaint about the Superbit titles: no commentary tracks.

What you're probably thinking of is that some Superbit titles include extras on a second disc.

The first batch will be MPEG-2. After that, we should be seeing WB use VC-1 for both HD DVD and BD.
Based on your hopes and dreams or hard facts? :rolleyes:

I didn't read anywhere that Sony has now agreed to pay royalies to Microsoft (HD DVD #1 Supporter) to use VC-1. :rolleyes:

There are *NO* Superbit titles with extras on the same disc. The "rules" of Superbit dictate that the disc include only the movie, with Dolby and DTS soundtracks in original language, and possibly subtitles. In fact, this is the most common complaint about the Superbit titles: no commentary tracks.

Panic Room certainly has a teaser trailer and Spiderman has a commentary track.

There's a whole boat load mentioned in the Real Reference thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=358365

Probably not a lot have all the extras on the same disc but most at least have a commentary/trailer. Only a select few Superbits have extras on the same disc(Spiderman, 5th Element, Panic Room, etc).
OK, I looked at that thread. There are no hard facts, just loose opinions on what DVDs in SD look "good." We don't know what size set they are watching it on, what set for that matter, calibrated or not, etc. When I had my 32" LCD and 32" CRT, any DVD looked good including laserdiscs. Some better and some not. However, I didn't have a set up to the task of making such an evaluation.

Now I have a Panasonic 50PX600U with a Toshiba HD-A1. With a HD DVD disc, you can see what real reference quality looks like on a good 50" set. It all goes downhill from there. I started this thread because I was pleased and surprised at how good these Superbit titles consistently looked with the excellent upscaling of the Toshiba player. I also, don't expect many of these titles to be available on HD DVD in the near future ~and~ they are only 10 bucks.

I do see some non Superbit SD discs out there that are pretty good such as O' Brother Where Art Thou but this seems to be exception rather than rule. The Doors movie used to look good to me but not on my current rig. If you have an excellent upscaling player like the Toshiba HD-AX1 or HD-A1 and a good display device, then you can see these kind of differences. Until you've experienced HD DVD, not just a casual 2 minute glance in the store, or a mediocre Blu-Ray demo, you don't have a reference on this topic.

There are *NO* Superbit titles with extras on the same disc. The "rules" of Superbit dictate that the disc include only the movie, with Dolby and DTS soundtracks in original language, and possibly subtitles. In fact, this is the most common complaint about the Superbit titles: no commentary tracks.

What you're probably thinking of is that some Superbit titles include extras on a second disc.
How about Das Boot? Its a Superbit double disc set and that's just the movie and the Dolby / DTS soundtracks. My regular, Director Cut edition of Das Boot puts that all on one disc including "The Making Of / Behind the Scenes" feature and all the other bells & whistles. Nevertheless, commentaries and foreign language dubs don't take up much space but that's all there too. The cover proudly proclaims 60 minutes of extra footage!

There are *NO* Superbit titles with extras on the same disc. The "rules" of Superbit dictate that the disc include only the movie, with Dolby and DTS soundtracks in original language, and possibly subtitles. In fact, this is the most common complaint about the Superbit titles: no commentary tracks.

What you're probably thinking of is that some Superbit titles include extras on a second disc.

Spiderman Superbit has a commentary track.

Panic Room, Adaptation, and Punch Drunk Love all have trailers on the movie disc as well as animated menus (another supposed Superbit no-no).

The Fifth Element and Leon: The Professional "Ultimate Editions" (both Superbit) have pop-up fact tracks on Disc 1 and animated menus.

Spiderman Superbit has a commentary track.

Panic Room, Adaptation, and Punch Drunk Love all have trailers on the movie disc as well as animated menus (another supposed Superbit no-no).

The Fifth Element and Leon: The Professional "Ultimate Editions" (both Superbit) have pop-up fact tracks on Disc 1 and animated menus.
Well, I guess I stand corrected! Sorry about that. :o

I have several Superbit titles but none of the ones you mention -- Except The Fifth Element, in which case I have the 'original' (non-Ultimate Edition) version with the plain Superbit menus.

Well, I guess I stand corrected! Sorry about that. :o

I have several Superbit titles but none of the ones you mention -- Except The Fifth Element, in which case I have the 'original' (non-Ultimate Edition) version with the plain Superbit menus.
Yeah, ditto on that. I do have Leon Ultimate but haven't watched it yet. Good to have knowledgable people sharing expertise that clarifies these things.

That said, I don't think such minor extras have a great impact on the bitrate bandwidth. I know not all titles get the same percentage of improvement but I haven't found a bad one yet or a desire to revert back to the Non-Superbit version. They're keepers until something better comes along. ;)

is (ok this darn thing wont let me put a link since I haven't posted yet but it is the w's and then the dot and then superbit and then dot and the ru) a legit part of superbit or is it just some piracy center?
i've seen a few disks around that claim to be Russian superbit promotional exclusives and stuff. do they have anything to do with the Columbia/Sony superbit, like I know superbit has special version released only in Japan, is the case here or since Russia has weak laws about copyrights and all, is this some independent thing? I'm guessing it's not legit, but not sure.
thanks.

Based on your hopes and dreams or hard facts? :rolleyes:

I didn't read anywhere that Sony has now agreed to pay royalies to Microsoft (HD DVD #1 Supporter) to use VC-1. :rolleyes:

Sony can't dictate what codec WB uses. VC-1 is part of the BD spec, and therefore, WB can use it. Everything I've heard says that the first batch of WB titles are MPEG 2, and everything after that will be VC-1.

And I don't own a BD player, so I have no hopes and dreams for BD. I do own an HD DVD player, though, which is why I'm posting in here.

Now If I could get Gladiator Superbit I would be all set :D (region 2 )

Just taking a break from watching Air Force One (Superbit). Nice job, looks great on my 50" plasma. Just curious, what are a few examples of anything that's better in SD with all the extras (on the same disc), like real reference quality? OK, maybe not. Now what's at least as good? What size set are you watching it on? ;)
I think these are all good questions as to comparing superbit to standard definitions. I think that there are standard definitions out there which come very very close, and also think, what you view them on has a little to do with the result also. I have 2 superbit discs on order, so when they get here i will be watching with great detail and picking(excuse the expression) guts out of them. :) They are Das Boot and Lawrence Of Arabia. I will compare these to Standards like the Pirates Of the Carra and a few others and see if i can see the difference. The problem with very good standard pictures is that they are not consistant enough and that is a good reason why superbit may have been released.Mind you, i could be wrong( that just popped up in my head as i was writting this :) ) Here's what i am viewing it on. Regards Grassy.... http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e307/drummerboy010/HomeTheatre09.jpg

That said, I don't think such minor extras have a great impact on the bitrate bandwidth.

The point is that Sony's policies for what Superbit is officially supposed to be (maxed out bit rate due to no extraneous audio tracks, no bonus features, no animated menus, etc.) is shall we say "flexible". As noted, some Superbits do have bonus features, animated menus, and even useless dub tracks, all in direct contradiction of the Superbit mandate. And a great number of the Superbits don't come anywhere near filling the available disc space.

Superbit is truly more about marketing than about quality.

They are Das Boot and Lawrence Of Arabia. I will compare these to Standards like the Pirates Of the Carra and a few others and see if i can see the difference.

So your plan is to compare a Superbit disc to one of the worst-looking DVDs of all time to see if there's a difference? Why don't you compare them to discs that aren't plagued by massive amounts of ugly edge enhancement?

I think these are all good questions as to comparing superbit to standard definitions. I think that there are standard definitions out there which come very very close, and also think, what you view them on has a little to do with the result also. I have 2 superbit discs on order, so when they get here i will be watching with great detail and picking(excuse the expression) guts out of them. :) They are Das Boot and Lawrence Of Arabia. I will compare these to Standards like the Pirates Of the Carra and a few others and see if i can see the difference. The problem with very good standard pictures is that they are not consistant enough and that is a good reason why superbit may have been released.Mind you, i could be wrong( that just popped up in my head as i was writting this :) ) Here's what i am viewing it on. Regards Grassy.... http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e307/drummerboy010/HomeTheatre09.jpg
Still need to pick up Lawrence, and a couple others. Where did you order it from? ;)

Superbit is truly more about marketing than about quality.
If this is true then why do they look so good upscaled on my Toshiba HD-A1 compared to other SD discs including the same titles? I'm so confused! :rolleyes:

Well, I guess I stand corrected! Sorry about that. :o

I have several Superbit titles but none of the ones you mention -- Except The Fifth Element, in which case I have the 'original' (non-Ultimate Edition) version with the plain Superbit menus.


Sounds like Superbit relaxed the rules towards the end -- perhaps in hope of increasing consumer interest. I have many of their titles (replacing standard versions), but I don't recall picking up any "Ultimate" versions.

As already mentioned, a commentary track is no more space consuming than a DD2.0 language track, and a trailer takes very little space also. In the world of "extras", those are pretty minimal impact. Nevertheless, they are clearly a departure from the original intent of the series.

-- Trevor

Now If I could get Gladiator Superbit I would be all set :D (region 2 )

Gladiator is Dreamworks so no Superbit but since the HD-A1 is soooo good upscaling, any old Gladiator DVD release will do. I have the original Region 1 release and it is looks phenomenal!!! :D

If this is true then why do they look so good upscaled on my Toshiba HD-A1 compared to other SD discs including the same titles? I'm so confused! :rolleyes:


The SuperBit versions also look better than the standard WITHOUT upscaling. Looks like a great divide here, with Josh on the other side.

-- Trevor

So your plan is to compare a Superbit disc to one of the worst-looking DVDs of all time to see if there's a difference? Why don't you compare them to discs that aren't plagued by massive amounts of ugly edge enhancement?
Josh, on my system i can't see ugly edge enhancements, especially with pirates as also i live in australia and am viewing them on region 4. Now you might think that that does'nt matter but i believe it may. The basis of my trial is based around the fact that pirates have been compared to lots of other titles in my collection of standard def and for some reason plays well on my system. I do get motion blur from time to time, but that to me can be a component vs video problem , or whatever. To me pirates on my system looks great and the blacks and whites and other colors come out great. :) I look at it this way, not every system is the same. For all i know that could answer my question about standard def being inconsistant. :) I'm only going by what i personally have and how it is set up and doing the best most sensible thing possible. But the time may come when i will hook up my dvi-hdmi and that may produce a different picture again. But for me at the moment, i am confident that this move will answer some of my questions, thats why it is worth spending the money on superbit. Regards Grassy....

Still need to pick up Lawrence, and a couple others. Where did you order it from? ;)
howe, i am here in australia mate, and if you are desperate for a copy in region 4 i probably can help you, but i dont know how it would come out on your system. I have never seen a region 1 dvd and dont know if i can get anything like that unless i order them from overseas, which would cost an arm and a leg anyway. Good luck with it all and i hope you get what your after. Regards Grassy... :)

Gladiator is Dreamworks so no Superbit but since the HD-A1 is soooo good upscaling, any old Gladiator DVD release will do. I have the original Region 1 release and it is looks phenomenal!!! :D


Our Japanese friends have Gladiator in superbit hence the region 2.

I do have the version with the dts es , guess I could pop it in my hd-a1 :)

howe, i am here in australia mate, and if you are desperate for a copy in region 4 i probably can help you, but i dont know how it would come out on your system. I have never seen a region 1 dvd and dont know if i can get anything like that unless i order them from overseas, which would cost an arm and a leg anyway. Good luck with it all and i hope you get what your after. Regards Grassy... :)
Hey, mate,

That's OK. Totally understand. I'll just go with Amazon or the like. All the best. I appreciate your enthusiasm for the passion shared by us all. :D

Howe

OK, I looked at that thread. There are no hard facts, just loose opinions on what DVDs in SD look "good."

Well obviously. It's a discussion. Just like this thread.

If this is true then why do they look so good upscaled on my Toshiba HD-A1 compared to other SD discs including the same titles?

The regular DVD edition of the same title would also be released by Sony, and Sony tends to do a really mediocre job with most of their non-Superbit DVDs. They then go back and re-release the movie as a "Superbit" in the quality they should have given you the first time, and call it a technological breakthrough.

Warner Bros. and New Line, for example, pretty consistently deliver quality as good or better than "Superbit" without the fancy marketing label.

Warner Bros. and New Line, for example, pretty consistently deliver quality as good or better than "Superbit" without the fancy marketing label.

e.g. the LOTR EE series of movies. Each 4 hour movie on two dual layer disks.

e.g. the LOTR EE series of movies. Each 4 hour movie on two dual layer disks.
Just taking a break from watching Dracula. Seriously, good movie! Wow it looks good on Superbit! Must say, it would kill in HD DVD!!!!!

The regular DVD edition of the same title would also be released by Sony, and Sony tends to do a really mediocre job with most of their non-Superbit DVDs. They then go back and re-release the movie as a "Superbit" in the quality they should have given you the first time, and call it a technological breakthrough.

Warner Bros. and New Line, for example, pretty consistently deliver quality as good or better than "Superbit" without the fancy marketing label.

I presume the original Cliffhanger, Das Boot, Fifth Element, StarTroopers, and Black Hawk Down are examples of this?

To say I strongly disagree with you is an understatement. I would say similar quality standard releases are Matrix, X-Men, and Blade, all easily above the average.

There is no suggestion that Superbit is better than all, but it is clearly easily above the average. I've said before that Sony is not generally a brand I steer towards (though at one time they would have been), but at least I acknowledge where they did something good. Superbit is a prime example.

-- Trevor

PS. Probably the weakest resolution SB title I'm aware of is Johnny Mnemonic. Though compared to it's standard version, it's actually a big step forward, Most of it is soft (probably shot that way), but the computer graphics sequences are spectacular. I don't think SB should have eschewed a title simply because the original is on the soft side (From Here To Eternity for example), and that doesn't make it any less an above average transfer.

e.g. the LOTR EE series of movies. Each 4 hour movie on two dual layer disks.

Excellent quality, just as are other non SB titles. However, it was never suggested that SB titles are better than all others, merely that they are easily above the average (as is LOTR) and provide very fine viewing experience when upsampled.

-- Trevor

I thought the LOTR films on dvd looked like mud, at least FOTR does here (http://www.cornbread.org/FOTRCompare/index.html) and here. (http://www.videophile.info/Review/FOTR/FOTR_01.htm)

I thought the LOTR films on dvd looked like mud, at least FOTR does here (http://www.cornbread.org/FOTRCompare/index.html) and here. (http://www.videophile.info/Review/FOTR/FOTR_01.htm)

I haven't watched the last of the three yet, but the extended editions of the first two were FAR from mud upscaled to 720p on my 78" screen.

-- Trevor

Yeah it's different with every release. The Fifth Element looks a lot better on Superbit, but The Patriot is swimming with artifacts. Still, it's the best we're going to get.

be advised that the 2-disc SE's of The Fifth Element and Leon: The Professional include the superbit discs, so you might as well get them with a bonus disc.

I have been researching high bit DVDs and came across one SB review from either England or Austrailia that compared SB version w/ regular. The Patriot was the longest movie reviewed and thus had only a 20% increase in the bit rate. The reviewer posted a zoomed scene of both versions that showed that the SB version had less artifacts and a little bit better detail. To his eyes it still had a better PQ even though it had the lowest percentage increase in bit rate of all the movies that he used in his review. Wish I had bookmarked the link, ah but here it is in the thread http://www.hifi-writer.com/he/superbit/superbit.htm

BTW the THX-certified DVDs are suppose to be at 5 mbps which will be better than std DVDs.

Brett
5th Element, Labrynth, MIB II, Dark Crystal, Guns of Navarone, and Spidey II

I have been researching high bit DVDs and came across one SB review from either England or Austrailia that compared SB version w/ regular. The Patriot was the longest movie reviewed and thus had only a 20% increase in the bit rate. The reviewer posted a zoomed scene of both versions that showed that the SB version had less artifacts and a little bit better detail. To his eyes it still had a better PQ even though it had the lowest percentage increase in bit rate of all the movies that he used in his review. Wish I had bookmarked the link, ah but here it is in the thread http://www.hifi-writer.com/he/superbit/superbit.htm

BTW the THX-certified DVDs are suppose to be at 5 mbps which will be better than std DVDs.

Brett
5th Element, Labrynth, MIB II, Dark Crystal, Guns of Navarone, and Spidey II

I read that review too. I later compared those scenes between the standard and SB versions and could defnitely see what he was talking about. The SB versions simply provide higher definition and the primary reason is higher bit budget. The fewer the "extra" content inclusions, the higher the bit budget can be for the film and showcase soundtracks.

Unfortunately, the typical multi-dip studio release these days is pushing more "extra" content onto the feature discs, not less -- with the predictable result of the image quality going downhilll. For awhile I was hoping they would use a second disc for those "extras", but rarely such luck.

"Master And Commander" could have and should have looked great, but even the special edition is mediocre -- same filled-to-the-brim film disc as the standard edition. Cost effective for the studio, but a definition disaster. Notice the later Ultimate "Gladiator" has plenty more junk shoe-horned into it than the original DTS version. DVD has already gone South -- thanks entirely to the studios. Now we'll see how well HD releases survive their ministrations, and for how long.

-- Trevor

:) I have been researching high bit DVDs and came across one SB review from either England or Austrailia that compared SB version w/ regular. The Patriot was the longest movie reviewed and thus had only a 20% increase in the bit rate. The reviewer posted a zoomed scene of both versions that showed that the SB version had less artifacts and a little bit better detail. To his eyes it still had a better PQ even though it had the lowest percentage increase in bit rate of all the movies that he used in his review. Wish I had bookmarked the link, ah but here it is in the thread http://www.hifi-writer.com/he/superbit/superbit.htm

BTW the THX-certified DVDs are suppose to be at 5 mbps which will be better than std DVDs.

Brett
5th Element, Labrynth, MIB II, Dark Crystal, Guns of Navarone, and Spidey II
That was a very interesting article on superbit. After reading the conclusion, in my case owning a projector of decent quality i am confident that superbit is not a marketing hype due to a fact that no matter what we buy in terms of home theatre electronics there is always this case of everything needing to be balanced to some degree. Lets face it though, there is always hype in buisness anyway. To me, marketing is hype, the real issue should be wheather the marketing issues are due to taking advantage of us all in an unfair manner. Proof has actually been in the pudding in a lot of cases in tems of standard issues and superbit issues. In buisness there is always hairs to be split and thats the way it will always be. :) But for all those who disagree with this statement about marketing hype, i still to a degree, understand where you are coming from. Not all of us have projectors. :) Regards Again Grassy

Superbit Titles as Blu-Ray Alternative

Considering how bad BD performance vs price ratio; yes, Superbit is INDEED a Blu-ray alternative ($1,000 will get you all Superbit titles available on the market PLUS an Oppo upconverting player)

Considering how bad BD performance vs price ratio; yes, Superbit is INDEED a Blu-ray alternative ($1,000 will get you all Superbit titles available on the market PLUS an Oppo upconverting player)
Actually, at the going rate of $10 a title, $500 will get you all that but I'd rather watch them on one of the Toshiba HD DVD players. ;)

There you go. You get the best of both worlds! You got HD DVD player AND the complete collection of Bluray alternative!

:)
That was a very interesting article on superbit. After reading the conclusion, in my case owning a projector of decent quality i am confident that superbit is not a marketing hype due to a fact that no matter what we buy in terms of home theatre electronics there is always this case of everything needing to be balanced to some degree. Lets face it though, there is always hype in buisness anyway. To me, marketing is hype, the real issue should be wheather the marketing issues are due to taking advantage of us all in an unfair manner. Proof has actually been in the pudding in a lot of cases in tems of standard issues and superbit issues. In buisness there is always hairs to be split and thats the way it will always be. :) But for all those who disagree with this statement about marketing hype, i still to a degree, understand where you are coming from. Not all of us have projectors. :) Regards Again Grassy

Thing is, any time marketing is given a product to sell, their goal is inherently going to be to SELL that product -- it's their job!

Just because they do their best to achieve that goal doesn't in any way imply that the product is bogus.

It appears to me that many people responding to this thread are simply saying it's a bogus product without even taking a serious look at it. Looks more like a "Sony hate" example than anything even remotely related to audio/video performance. Any real understanding of the impact of lossy compression, necessarily supports the concept of the Superbit product -- all that's left is to test the realization of the concept. It doesn't get a whole lot more straightforward than that!

As it turns out, the concept and realization both work -- just as one would expect!

-- Trevor

It appears to me that many people responding to this thread are simply saying it's a bogus product without even taking a serious look at it.

claiming BD is better than HD when it's actually far worse is not a bogus claim?

It's not about "Sony Hate", it's about reality.

player: 100% more expensive
movie selection: far less than HD DVD
image quality: far worse than HD DVD
dual-layer: nowhere to be seen
compression scheme: insisting in using the mathematically and visually proven worse MPEG-2 instead of a better compression

Please remind us again. How seriously we need to look at BD before claiming that BD is a bogus product? Heck, even the delayed (over and over again) Sony BD player won't even come with HDMI 1.3 and it's going to be even more expensive than the Samsung (which come equipped with faulty chip... yes, it's a 'feature' that HD DVD doesn't have).

The regular DVD edition of the same title would also be released by Sony, and Sony tends to do a really mediocre job with most of their non-Superbit DVDs. They then go back and re-release the movie as a "Superbit" in the quality they should have given you the first time, and call it a technological breakthrough.



This was especially the case with Spider-man II....pretty big difference between the regular and Superbit version.

claiming BD is better than HD when it's actually far worse is not a bogus claim?

It's not about "Sony Hate", it's about reality.

player: 100% more expensive
movie selection: far less than HD DVD
image quality: far worse than HD DVD
dual-layer: nowhere to be seen
compression scheme: insisting in using the mathematically and visually proven worse MPEG-2 instead of a better compression

Please remind us again. How seriously we need to look at BD before claiming that BD is a bogus product? Heck, even the delayed (over and over again) Sony BD player won't even come with HDMI 1.3 and it's going to be even more expensive than the Samsung (which come equipped with faulty chip... yes, it's a 'feature' that HD DVD doesn't have).

The subject of this thread is the Superbit product, not the Superbit marketing. The subject of my post is the Superbit product, not the Superbit marketing. Please go back and read my post.

Thanks -- Trevor

PS. By the way -- your post is hopelessly OT. Further, I didn't even mention Blu Ray.

claiming BD is better than HD when it's actually far worse is not a bogus claim?

It's not about "Sony Hate", it's about reality.

player: 100% more expensive
movie selection: far less than HD DVD
image quality: far worse than HD DVD
dual-layer: nowhere to be seen
compression scheme: insisting in using the mathematically and visually proven worse MPEG-2 instead of a better compression

Please remind us again. How seriously we need to look at BD before claiming that BD is a bogus product? Heck, even the delayed (over and over again) Sony BD player won't even come with HDMI 1.3 and it's going to be even more expensive than the Samsung (which come equipped with faulty chip... yes, it's a 'feature' that HD DVD doesn't have).
You're preaching to the choir. The point made is that in the case of Superbit, Sony had something worthwhile together. We all know that in the case of BD, they don't, yet anyway if they ever do. :rolleyes:

This was especially the case with Spider-man II....pretty big difference between the regular and Superbit version.


Please satisfy my curiosity, what was the extra content in the standard SpiderMan release and how do you think the picture quality compared to the average SD release in the market place?

Thanks -- Trevor

Thing is, any time marketing is given a product to sell, their goal is inherently going to be to SELL that product -- it's their job!

Just because they do their best to achieve that goal doesn't in any way imply that the product is bogus.

It appears to me that many people responding to this thread are simply saying it's a bogus product without even taking a serious look at it. Looks more like a "Sony hate" example than anything even remotely related to audio/video performance. Any real understanding of the impact of lossy compression, necessarily supports the concept of the Superbit product -- all that's left is to test the realization of the concept. It doesn't get a whole lot more straightforward than that!

As it turns out, the concept and realization both work -- just as one would expect!

-- Trevor
I agree, these things have to be looked at proffesionally. It is very easy to just ride off a product,without gaining first hand knowelege or understanding why superbit was relased in the first place.We will always get more out of our systems, if we try to understand how all of this fits together. This also goes for blu ray and whatever next is released. As i said before not everyones systems are the same :) I cant wait until i really start to catch on. :) I hardly know anything really, its just what my eyes and ears tell me :)

Just watched "From Here To Eternity" Superbit last night. This is a full screen format B&W film. Unusual as I believe all other Superbit titles are in color. Wow! I wish all my SD B&W classics looked this good. As mentioned in the link to the Superbit article, the SB process is all about detail and not color or black levels. It shows in this example. Very nice!

While Superbit titles are usually the best SD presentation of available titles, they are often riddled with video problems when viewing on larger screens with properly calibrated equiment. they seem to share common traits with THX certified titles; namely EE out the ass. While the color reproduction and detail is usually improved over the standard DVD release it is only nominal unless one of two things occured:

1) reissue of a VERY early DVD release

2) double dip of a standard dvd release packed with special features.


Omitting small files such as epk featurettes or comm. tracks, the improvement is minimal at best, unless a complete remaster has occured since the intial release, which is very rare. Specifically, take a look at Resident Evil SB. Only a marginal improvement at best unless you really died to have a DTS track (which more often than not replaces the special features dropped/ other extra content dilluting the space that could be given to improving picture quality).

Sorry for the rant.

Omitting small files such as epk featurettes or comm. tracks, the improvement is minimal at best, unless a complete remaster has occured since the intial release, which is very rare. Specifically, take a look at Resident Evil SB. Only a marginal improvement at best unless you really died to have a DTS track (which more often than not replaces the special features dropped/ other extra content dilluting the space that could be given to improving picture quality).

The Japanese DVD of Resident Evil (on-screen title "Biohazard" in that country) looks just as good as the Superbit, has a DTS track, and includes all the supplements from the non-Superbit DVD.

While Superbit titles are usually the best SD presentation of available titles, they are often riddled with video problems when viewing on larger screens with properly calibrated equiment. they seem to share common traits with THX certified titles; namely EE out the ass. While the color reproduction and detail is usually improved over the standard DVD release it is only nominal unless one of two things occured:

1) reissue of a VERY early DVD release

2) double dip of a standard dvd release packed with special features.


Omitting small files such as epk featurettes or comm. tracks, the improvement is minimal at best, unless a complete remaster has occured since the intial release, which is very rare. Specifically, take a look at Resident Evil SB. Only a marginal improvement at best unless you really died to have a DTS track (which more often than not replaces the special features dropped/ other extra content dilluting the space that could be given to improving picture quality).

Sorry for the rant.

"Resident Evil" is a personal favorite and I have both discs. The Superbit version provides an easily higher definition picture on my 78" screen (720p), and I was already pleased with the image the standard release provided. In other words, I fully disagree with you.

-- Trevor

The subject of this thread is the Superbit product

Exactly, as the title said "Superbit Titles as Blu-Ray Alternative " so of course we have to compare it with Bluray. When the title is "Superbit Titles as Blu-Ray Alternative" you expect people to compare it with another SD DVD? or HD programming? or HD DVD? :rolleyes:

Exactly, as the title said "Superbit Titles as Blu-Ray Alternative " so of course we have to compare it with Bluray. When the title is "Superbit Titles as Blu-Ray Alternative" you expect people to compare it with another SD DVD? or HD programming? or HD DVD? :rolleyes:

Such charming sarcasm! So what exactly did your Blu-Ray reply to my Superbit post have to do with my post?

-- Trevor

You mentioned about "Sony Hate Mentality". I explained where the most recent "Sony Hate Mentality" came from, which is based on reality that Sony have the track record even to this very moment with BD, is filled with empty promises.

You mentioned about "Sony Hate Mentality". I explained where the most recent "Sony Hate Mentality" came from, which is based on reality that Sony have the track record even to this very moment with BD, is filled with empty promises.

And that's why you came down on me like a lead balloon? Geeesh!!!

(Not to mention telling me to explain again where people should be looking again at BR -- when I haven't said that even once in all my posts on these forums?)

uhmm, you're the one who started with

your post is hopelessly OT. Further, I didn't even mention Blu Ray.

you're funny. You called my post is OT when I'm answering your question. Now that your logic have been blown out of water, you claim that I came down on you. Too funny. I'm unsubscribing myself from this dribble of a thread.

I have a few superbit titles and out of curiosity rewatched the latest Zorro on an upconverting dvd player at 1080I ...

I must say, the image looked good, little to no noise and minimal compression artifacting that I could see (37 inch LCD) from about 6 feet ... but by comparison to BD and HD, the image was noticably softer.

While I think that at present, HD has a noticable edge in pq ... IMO as a whole, the High Definition arena including HD and BD are noticably better than the previous generation.

uhmm, you're the one who started with



you're funny. You called my post is OT when I'm answering your question. Now that your logic have been blown out of water, you claim that I came down on you. Too funny. I'm unsubscribing myself from this dribble of a thread.

It's pretty clear to anyone with a brain that I referred to your original post as OT, nothing else.

It's also clear you failed to read my original post, jumped to unwarranted assumptions, and now don't have the guts to acknowledge the fact your response was completely out-of-order.

If you had any kind of character, you would be offering an apology, instead you take the self-ego protective course of belittling me, and making patently absurd claims -- an obvious attempt to elevate yourself.

Welcome to my ignore box -- the word "dribble" is a good description for you.

-- Trevor

PS. Howe, no reflection on you, but there isn't a chance you'll ever catch me listening to this "preacher".

Just watched "From Here To Eternity" Superbit last night. This is a full screen format B&W film. Unusual as I believe all other Superbit titles are in color. Wow! I wish all my SD B&W classics looked this good.

FYI, There are three or four more B&W Superbit releases available in Japan.

FYI, There are three or four more B&W Superbit releases available in Japan.

Too bad they didn't show up in the US, or maybe they did -- just not at BestBuy :)

-- Trevor

[QUOTE=TrevorS]"Resident Evil" is a personal favorite and I have both discs. The Superbit version provides an easily higher definition picture on my 78" screen (720p), and I was already pleased with the image the standard release provided. In other words, I fully disagree with you.

What "higher definition", 480p vs "really" 480p? That statement makes absolutely no sense at all! Color reproduction is almost identical between the two releases, but small object detail seems more accurately rendered on the SB release. Black levels are also consistant across both discs. My whole point was that as the SB ttitles started replacing newer releases, the gap of difference started to get smaller and smaller.

It is certainly better, but not enough to consider it night and day imo.

Just saw this list of titles frmo the UK. Noticed they have "The Fast And The Furious" and "Bridge Over The River Kwai" listed.

http://www.superbit.co.uk/list.html

This Sony list doesn't include those two titles -- I wonder why?

http://www.sonypictures.com/cthe/superbit/catalog.html


No other B&W titles listed either.


-- Trevor

Overseas there are quite a few Superbit titles available that are not here. Japan has a Jurassic Park SB title, wich is obviously distributed domestically by Universal. There are countless examples of this as foreign territories are often dist. by other studios.

[QUOTE=TrevorS]"Resident Evil" is a personal favorite and I have both discs. The Superbit version provides an easily higher definition picture on my 78" screen (720p), and I was already pleased with the image the standard release provided. In other words, I fully disagree with you.

What "higher definition", 480p vs "really" 480p? That statement makes absolutely no sense at all! Color reproduction is almost identical between the two releases, but small object detail seems more accurately rendered on the SB release. Black levels are also consistant across both discs. My whole point was that as the SB ttitles started replacing newer releases, the gap of difference started to get smaller and smaller.

It is certainly better, but not enough to consider it night and day imo.

I don't understand your objection to my wording. You are saying that 480i, 720p, and 1080i all provide the same sense of picture definition? If that were true, what is the point of upscaling?

I never said night and day, I said "The Superbit version provides an easily higher definition picture...". Easily higher is quite enough to recommend purchasing the SB version.

Your specific remark was "the improvement is minimal at best". And as I said, I fully disagree!

EDIT: I agree that the degree of improvement is variable depending on the title. However, I'm not clear it's simply a function of chronological order. I think it's more a question of how good the original was before it. Still, I consider the original releases of "Fifth Element" and "Starship Troopers" to have been very nice quality, and yet the SB versions were even better. Also true for the other titles I've compared, though the degree of difference I see is certainly variable.

-- Trevor

Overseas there are quite a few Superbit titles available that are not here. Japan has a Jurassic Park SB title, wich is obviously distributed domestically by Universal. There are countless examples of this as foreign territories are often dist. by other studios.

That's too bad it appears to be such a territorial thing. I would have loved to pick up "The Bridge Over The River Kwai" -- my laser disc copy could certainly be worse, but it could definitely be better as well :).

I'll have to try doing a search on the individual titles and see if they are available from someone in the US (price could be a problem though).

I'm getting to have a Jurassic Park collection -- two LD versions (CAV and DTS) plus the DTS DVD release. Probably don't really need another unless it's HD :).

-- Trevor

My objection to your wording is stating "...higher definition picture...". The resolution of both discs is the same, 480p. So, while you might feel that the SB offers a superior video signal, at the end of the day, it still only offers 480 lines, just like the intial or SE DVD release. A "higher definition picture" would be one that offers a resolution "HIGHER" than that of 480p, ergo the objection to your wording.

Not attacking you, just wanting to clarify your intial statement.

[QUOTE=TrevorS]...I'm geting to have a Jurassic Park collection -- two LD versions (CAV and DTS) plus the DTS DVD release. Probably don't really need another unless it's HD :)

I'll second that, very few double dips for me in the future unless truely worthy. I too have many a copy of JP. It is insane to really love films these days, huh?

My objection to your wording is stating "...higher definition picture...". The resolution of both discs is the same, 480p. So, while you might feel that the SB offers a superior video signal, at the end of the day, it still only offers 480 lines, just like the intial or SE DVD release. A "higher definition picture" would be one that offers a resolution "HIGHER" than that of 480p, ergo the objection to your wording.

Not attacking you, just wanting to clarify your intial statement.


No, to be sure, I understand that. However, some people get the idea that all 480i are the same, SD=SD (at least one example in this thread).

My point, of course, is that 480i is only a part of the equation. A high quality 480i can respond magnificently to a 1080i upscale, whereas a much lesser quality might not appear upscaled at all.

No question, upscaling the very best SD will still not deliver HD, but it will certainly leave behind a 480i/p display of the same disc.

-- Trevor

Agreed, sorry to have belabored the point. Anyway, my vote for best SB are:

Spidey 2- much better detail and color display, also less EE than the standard release.

Lawrence Of Arabia - Much more accurate color reproduction as originally intended & less ringing in medium shots.

Heavy Metal - Amazingly less noise than original release. This one is night and day with its counterpart.

Agreed, sorry to have belabored the point. Anyway, my vote for best SB are:

Spidey 2- much better detail and color display, also less EE than the standard release.

Lawrence Of Arabia - Much more accurate color reproduction as originally intended & less ringing in medium shots.

Heavy Metal - Amazingly less noise than original release. This one is night and day with its counterpart.

:) Haven't got around to watching the SB's yet (in my stack), but I can safely say the Criterion "Lawrence Of Arabia" LD has great color and LPCM sound, as does the "Heavy Metal" LD :) One day I'll get around to the SB versions!

Agreed, sorry to have belabored the point. Anyway, my vote for best SB are:

Spidey 2- much better detail and color display, also less EE than the standard release.

Lawrence Of Arabia - Much more accurate color reproduction as originally intended & less ringing in medium shots.

Heavy Metal - Amazingly less noise than original release. This one is night and day with its counterpart.
Heavy Metal! Cool, I have this on order from an Amazon reseller. One of my favourite animated sci-fi films. Lawrence of Arabia (one of the best films made) is challenging to find in Superbit. I have seen Spiderman available for $9.98 at Best Buy.

Welcome to my ignore box -- the word "dribble" is a good description for you.

-- Trevor

PS. Howe, no reflection on you, but there isn't a chance you'll ever catch me listening to this "preacher".
Thanks Trevor. This thread sems to have inadvertently gotten "stupid" in the last 24 hours. For the record, I respect, value and welcome your contributions to this thread. ;)

Thanks Trevor. This thread sems to have inadvertently gotten "stupid" in the last 24 hours. For the record, I respect, value and welcome your contributions to this thread. ;)

Thank you, Howe -- much appreciated! Glad to have been able to contribute :).

Agreed, sorry to have belabored the point. Anyway, my vote for best SB are:

Spidey 2- much better detail and color display, also less EE than the standard release.

Lawrence Of Arabia - Much more accurate color reproduction as originally intended & less ringing in medium shots.

Heavy Metal - Amazingly less noise than original release. This one is night and day with its counterpart.
Got the Heavy Metal Superbit edition today and compared it to the SD Collector's edition DVD. Dolphc is correct. Much less noise and no where near as soft. I've had this on Lasedisc and it was better than the regular SD DVD but now I would give the Gold to the Superbit, the Silver to the LD and the Bronze (they don't give out copper do they) to the SD DVD Collector's edition. Not forgetting the DTS soundtrack on the Superbit is an exclusive. ;)

Closing thoughts. Wish they could have used a more pristine print. There are film speckles and scratches here and there. I'll keep the Collectors SD edition on the shelf for the extras otherwise it'd be history. BTW, I think this was in large part, the inspiration for the 5th Element. Harry Canyon the cab driver, the orb (sum of all evil), etc.

Got the Heavy Metal Superbit edition today and compared it to the SD Collector's edition DVD. Dolphc is correct. Much less noise and no where near as soft. I've had this on Lasedisc and it was better than the regular SD DVD but now I would give the Gold to the Superbit, the Silver to the LD and the Bronze (they don't give out copper do they) to the SD DVD Collector's edition. Not forgetting the DTS soundtrack on the Superbit is an exclusive. ;)

Closing thoughts. Wish they could have used a more pristine print. There are film speckles and scratches here and there. I'll keep the Collectors SD edition on the shelf for the extras otherwise it'd be history. BTW, I think this was in large part, the inspiration for the 5th Element. Harry Canyon the cab driver, the orb (sum of all evil), etc.
I've noticed on a movie of mine called "Die Hard with a Vengence" , on the laserdisc, in chapter 9 (i think) where the train is blown up and comes down hard on the platform it makes this huge thunder sound, but on the dvd in the same scene where the train came down on the platform, it is only half that of the laserdisc in terms of bottom end bass. The sub dosn"t seem to be working properly, in other words there is hardly any impact coming through compared to the laser discs. Have you ever compared the bottom end sub sound, in for example any of your superbit movies as to laserdiscs or standard discs for that matter. :)

I've noticed on a movie of mine called "Die Hard with a Vengence" , on the laserdisc, in chapter 9 (i think) where the train is blown up and comes down hard on the platform it makes this huge thunder sound, but on the dvd in the same scene where the train came down on the platform, it is only half that of the laserdisc in terms of bottom end bass. The sub dosn"t seem to be working properly, in other words there is hardly any impact coming through compared to the laser discs. Have you ever compared the bottom end sub sound, in for example any of your superbit movies as to laserdiscs or standard discs for that matter. :)
Ya know, I never was too concerned about subwoofer levels. I've been concentrating mostly on PQ and then AQ in general, ie: higher frequencies (>60Hz) and surround effect. Eventually, it may come down to things like that someday. My neighbors would probably welcome a shootout comparison like that. ;)

I've noticed on a movie of mine called "Die Hard with a Vengence" , on the laserdisc, in chapter 9 (i think) where the train is blown up and comes down hard on the platform it makes this huge thunder sound, but on the dvd in the same scene where the train came down on the platform, it is only half that of the laserdisc in terms of bottom end bass. The sub dosn"t seem to be working properly, in other words there is hardly any impact coming through compared to the laser discs. Have you ever compared the bottom end sub sound, in for example any of your superbit movies as to laserdiscs or standard discs for that matter. :)

Haven't specifically done that, but the DVD version of "The Fugitive" was a serious disappointment to me relative to the LD. Most obvious sonic problem was when the train is derailed early in the film (loss of bottom end content), but I consider the entire transfer to be substandard video as well. I had high hopes for the HD-DVD release as a replacement for my LD, but then I learned of the 1080i -> 1080p screw-up. Guess I'll be depending on my LD forever :).

-- Trevor

Has anyone tried the foreign SB DVD's yet? Japenese titles are Region 2 and NTSC. I have been watching them on eBay and was thinking of getting the JP Trilogy in SB. My LG-3510a is region free so should be able to play any NTSC DVD. All are advertised w/ English soundtrack even tho foreign writing on case. Also looking at the Matrix and other Sci-fi if JP works out.

I saw a post that stated Universal has SB rights for the foreign market and Sony has it for here. Someone (Howe?) posted that the SB are no longer in production. Where did you get that info? If true, I'm guessing that Sony is creating a "consumer gap" between SD DVD and BR DVD's. There would be a less likey chance that a SB movie owner would upgrade to BR since he/she already has a high PQ DVD. Probably all studios are cringing at the thought of buying foreign SB titles. Based on previous posts slight PQ differences btw SB and BR would not warrant a buy of the BR title.

I was at a local BB yesterday watching highlights of Sahara on a Samsung 40" LCD and Samsung BR DVD player. I was pretty impressed w/ the color and detail. I also picked up the only SB copy of The Patriot.

Check out dvdbeaver.com for dvd comparisons of different releases. Came across one review that included the following statement (para-phrased): The 3 best SB titles are The Patriot, Hollowman, and Charlie's Angels Full Throttle. CA SB was at that BB, 3 copies actually, but even w/ a best rating, I still could not buy it. Crouching Tiger SB recommendation was a thumbs down unless you want it for the DTS. Not all movies have been reviewed but there is a good selection. I bought Extreme T2 (THX-cert) based on review and recommendation. Watched a little of it was very pleased w/ PQ.

Check out dvdbeaver.com for dvd comparisons of different releases. Came across one review that included the following statement (para-phrased): The 3 best SB titles are The Patriot, Hollowman, and Charlie's Angels Full Throttle. CA SB was at that BB, 3 copies actually, but even w/ a best rating, I still could not buy it. Crouching Tiger SB recommendation was a thumbs down unless you want it for the DTS. Not all movies have been reviewed but there is a good selection. I bought Extreme T2 (THX-cert) based on review and recommendation. Watched a little of it was very pleased w/ PQ.

Don't go by the recommendations, go by which films you like. I had the original Crouching Tiger and I am very satisfied with the improvement the SB version delivered.

-- Trevor

Don't go by the recommendations, go by which films you like. I had the original Crouching Tiger and I am very satisfied with the improvement the SB version delivered.

-- Trevor
Their reviewer thought that the slightly better PQ was not worth the loss of the extras that came w/ the SD version. Guess one could own both.

Their reviewer thought that the slightly better PQ was not worth the loss of the extras that came w/ the SD version. Guess one could own both.

Well, if you are satisfied their reviewer sees things exactly the same way you do, that's fine.

If not though, what he/she considers slight might be far more than slight to you. As far as the extras -- by and large they have near zero value to me (I may or may not watch them once). If they have high value to you, then that could certainly be a deal breaker.

If out of the entire available SB series, the reviewer only came up with those three titles as worthwhile, and recognizing that two of them are inherently dubious (Hollow Man and Charlie's Angels), then I personally wouldn't place much confidence in that reviewer.

But, to each their own.

-- Trevor

Their reviewer thought that the slightly better PQ was not worth the loss of the extras that came w/ the SD version. Guess one could own both.
I seldom watch the extras unless they are really special. I'm happy to just have the movie, really. That said, I want the movie to have the best PQ possible. The extras can often be just so much fluff and filler. :rolleyes:

The 'Universal' R2J Superbits have been OOP for a few years now. Guess Sony's rights expired.

Ya know, I never was too concerned about subwoofer levels. I've been concentrating mostly on PQ and then AQ in general, ie: higher frequencies (>60Hz) and surround effect. Eventually, it may come down to things like that someday. My neighbors would probably welcome a shootout comparison like that. ;)
I understand, i really get carried away with joy when i notice a great picture now, where about a year ago i never really knew what a good picture was. It used to be all the same to me, but soon as i started getting into projectors, i started to get really picky. Also having said that, when i see a picture with image blur and so on, i get uneasy with the movie , and to a degree i lose intrest in the movie. Thats probably the main reason i look for superbit titles now. :) Regards Grassy

Haven't specifically done that, but the DVD version of "The Fugitive" was a serious disappointment to me relative to the LD. Most obvious sonic problem was when the train is derailed early in the film (loss of bottom end content), but I consider the entire transfer to be substandard video as well. I had high hopes for the HD-DVD release as a replacement for my LD, but then I learned of the 1080i -> 1080p screw-up. Guess I'll be depending on my LD forever :).

-- Trevor
Yea, i think the old laserdisc is underated and there are some good ones out there. As for players its really hard to find them in australia and my old sony broke down. So i have all these laser discs and no player to play them.( what a bummer). I also have" The Fugitive", but it looks kinda ok on my system, but i know what your saying. :) Regards Grassy

Has anyone tried the foreign SB DVD's yet? Japenese titles are Region 2 and NTSC. I have been watching them on eBay and was thinking of getting the JP Trilogy in SB. My LG-3510a is region free so should be able to play any NTSC DVD. All are advertised w/ English soundtrack even tho foreign writing on case. Also looking at the Matrix and other Sci-fi if JP works out.

I saw a post that stated Universal has SB rights for the foreign market and Sony has it for here. Someone (Howe?) posted that the SB are no longer in production. Where did you get that info? If true, I'm guessing that Sony is creating a "consumer gap" between SD DVD and BR DVD's. There would be a less likey chance that a SB movie owner would upgrade to BR since he/she already has a high PQ DVD. Probably all studios are cringing at the thought of buying foreign SB titles. Based on previous posts slight PQ differences btw SB and BR would not warrant a buy of the BR title.

I was at a local BB yesterday watching highlights of Sahara on a Samsung 40" LCD and Samsung BR DVD player. I was pretty impressed w/ the color and detail. I also picked up the only SB copy of The Patriot.

Check out dvdbeaver.com for dvd comparisons of different releases. Came across one review that included the following statement (para-phrased): The 3 best SB titles are The Patriot, Hollowman, and Charlie's Angels Full Throttle. CA SB was at that BB, 3 copies actually, but even w/ a best rating, I still could not buy it. Crouching Tiger SB recommendation was a thumbs down unless you want it for the DTS. Not all movies have been reviewed but there is a good selection. I bought Extreme T2 (THX-cert) based on review and recommendation. Watched a little of it was very pleased w/ PQ.
I have the Superbit Das Boot on order and they say the German DTS is great and so is the picture, so i am looking forward to that one. Another good German film called Downfall would be great on superbit if it was available, i really loved that movie. :) Das Boot will be on region 4. Regards Grassy

Yea, i think the old laserdisc is underated and there are some good ones out there. As for players its really hard to find them in australia and my old sony broke down. So i have all these laser discs and no player to play them.( what a bummer). I also have" The Fugitive", but it looks kinda ok on my system, but i know what your saying. :) Regards Grassy

Your LD player died? For real, bummer! Did you check into the cost of repair? Does Ebay work for Australian purchase? LD was really popular in Japan, possible to get anything from there?

LD is pretty major for me (good size collection plus player backup). Currently in the process of transferring a few titles to DVD for more flexibility.

Buying DVD's of any sort is getting difficult these days (what with HD having started), and SB is no longer much of an option since I've bought most titles available here. Was considering "Missing" with T.L.Jones but haven't been able to sell myself on the story.

I noticed a number of the non-US SB titles are DD only, whereas all US titles include DTS. Found "Bridge On The River Kwai" in Canada for around $24 (plus ship) and it's DD5.1 only.

-- Trevor

:) Your LD player died? For real, bummer! Did you check into the cost of repair? Does Ebay work for Australian purchase? LD was really popular in Japan, possible to get anything from there?

LD is pretty major for me (good size collection plus player backup). Currently in the process of transferring a few titles to DVD for more flexibility.

Buying DVD's of any sort is getting difficult these days (what with HD having started), and SB is no longer much of an option since I've bought most titles available here. Was considering "Missing" with T.L.Jones but haven't been able to sell myself on the story.

I noticed a number of the non-US SB titles are DD only, whereas all US titles include DTS. Found "Bridge On The River Kwai" in Canada for around $24 (plus ship) and it's DD5.1 only.

-- Trevor Yea she died alright, after i had owned the sony for around 6 months, i started having trouble with the door of the player opening up and the disc would get stuck inside the player. Anyway, i took that player into a tech and the problem was solved(temp), so then after 3 months the door started playing up again but this time the disc would not get stuck and the door would work, so this happened on and off for some time. It used to skip alot and one day smoke started to come out of the bloody thing. The nearest sony repairer was 100 miles away, so i took it there and they told me it would cost an arm and a leg to get it fixed as sony dont make them anymore here in oz. So i came to the conclusion that i should just cut my loses and look for a new one (new second hand in oz) I am looking into it at the moment. At the moment they are cheap as over here they are not in great demand, but the problem is finding them. I later found out that sony had a lot of trouble with there door design and operation, so it wasn't only me with problems with them players. I havn't looked into Ebay yet, but i will. After the sony, after sale service is impotant to me as you can see why. :) Mainly what i want laserdisc for, is to play my Rush discs as its hard to get their dvds on region 4. Its a funny game were in with this passion, we win some and we loose some. :) Regards again Grassy

:) Yea she died alright, after i had owned the sony for around 6 months, i started having trouble with the door of the player opening up and the disc would get stuck inside the player. Anyway, i took that player into a tech and the problem was solved(temp), so then after 3 months the door started playing up again but this time the disc would not get stuck and the door would work, so this happened on and off for some time. It used to skip alot and one day smoke started to come out of the bloody thing. The nearest sony repairer was 100 miles away, so i took it there and they told me it would cost an arm and a leg to get it fixed as sony dont make them anymore here in oz. So i came to the conclusion that i should just cut my loses and look for a new one (new second hand in oz) I am looking into it at the moment. At the moment they are cheap as over here they are not in great demand, but the problem is finding them. I later found out that sony had a lot of trouble with there door design and operation, so it wasn't only me with problems with them players. I havn't looked into Ebay yet, but i will. After the sony, after sale service is impotant to me as you can see why. :) Mainly what i want laserdisc for, is to play my Rush discs as its hard to get their dvds on region 4. Its a funny game were in with this passion, we win some and we loose some. :) Regards again Grassy

I don't know about availability to you, but the Pioneer players were hard to beat, highly reliable and with the right model -- great performance. The best deal on a top flight player was the Pioneer CLD-D704 (US model number) -- same basic player as the two Elite models CLD-79 and CLD-99. I love it -- great picture and sound.

Everything that came after those models were junk (except for the super high dollar Japan only boxes that were just amazing -- some people imported them to the US and were hyper-pleased).

-- Trevor

I don't know about availability to you, but the Pioneer players were hard to beat, highly reliable and with the right model -- great performance. The best deal on a top flight player was the Pioneer CLD-D704 (US model number) -- same basic player as the two Elite models CLD-79 and CLD-99. I love it -- great picture and sound.

Everything that came after those models were junk (except for the super high dollar Japan only boxes that were just amazing -- some people imported them to the US and were hyper-pleased).

-- Trevor
Yea thats right, the pioneer have good laserdisc players and i should have gone with pioneer in the first place. :o I'll write these model numbers down and do some investigating. All the laser discs that i have, i have ordered from the states, but i only found out when i travelled around this forum, that laserdiscs come with a Dts sound track. I never knew that before. Anyway i have a flagship pioneer amp, which would go together well with something like them. The availability at current is a test though, as far as i know they dont sell them new anymore in this country. I would love to come to the states or canada and see what home theatre is like. :) One day maybe :) Regards Grassy

Yea thats right, the pioneer have good laserdisc players and i should have gone with pioneer in the first place. :o I'll write these model numbers down and do some investigating. All the laser discs that i have, i have ordered from the states, but i only found out when i travelled around this forum, that laserdiscs come with a Dts sound track. I never knew that before. Anyway i have a flagship pioneer amp, which would go together well with something like them. The availability at current is a test though, as far as i know they dont sell them new anymore in this country. I would love to come to the states or canada and see what home theatre is like. :) One day maybe :) Regards Grassy

No question, availability comes down to buying used these days -- no production of any models for several years. They used to show up on Ebay, probably still do.

There weren't that many DTS LD titles released (the DTS tracks replaced the PCM -- DTS bit-rate aprox 1.2Mbps). The very first one was 'Jurrasic Park'. The channel levels weren't calibrated properly for the first few releases (apparently used theater instead of home THX) and so the rear channels and ELF were exaggerated (about 10dB on the ELF :)). There were just a handful like that, "Casper" was another -- don't recall the others. I had always hoped to come across a copy of DTS "Mask", but never did :(.

-- Trevor

Yea, i have just checked on Ebay, and there is a Yamaha for sale with a heap of movies, good ones too. I might even place a bid and see what happens. My superbit movies should be here any day now and cant wait to see what these look like also. Well i'm off to the park to take the kids for a run. Regards Grassy

Yea, i have just checked on Ebay, and there is a Yamaha for sale with a heap of movies, good ones too. I might even place a bid and see what happens. My superbit movies should be here any day now and cant wait to see what these look like also. Well i'm off to the park to take the kids for a run. Regards Grassy

FYI -- I see a 704 went for about $229USD on July 28 (Ebay). Good Luck!

At this point, with better encoding and compression and HD masters Superbit is no better than a good DVD. It was great for it's time though and they have some good releases.

At this point, with better encoding and compression and HD masters Superbit is no better than a good DVD. It was great for it's time though and they have some good releases.

I guess that depends on your definition of a "good" DVD. If it's defined as average -- not a chance.

-- Trevor

I guess that depends on your definition of a "good" DVD. If it's defined as average -- not a chance.

-- Trevor

Well, I would have said average if I had meant that. I posted so you wouldn't have to assume, BTW.

Well, I would have said average if I had meant that. I posted so you wouldn't have to assume, BTW.

One can never be sure what words are intended to convey when used by other people. As I mentioned above, I have found SB titles to be easily above average. The best looking titles I've seen are those that provide maximal bit-rate for the video. My copy of DTS "Dances With wolves" is a superb example (the 1.5 Mbps DTS also).

I found it nice, being able to purchase SB without having to worry about the picture qualty. The new releases normally look good, but the emphasis on extra content prevents them from being what they could be. The best looking releases I've seen are the ones that keep a lid on extras.

-- Trevor

One can never be sure what words are intended to convey when used by other people. As I mentioned above, I have found SB titles to be easily above average. The best looking titles I've seen are those that provide maximal bit-rate for the video. My copy of DTS "Dances With wolves" is a superb example (the 1.5 Mbps DTS also).

I found it nice, being able to purchase SB without having to worry about the picture qualty. The new releases normally look good, but the emphasis on extra content prevents them from being what they could be. The best looking releases I've seen are the ones that keep a lid on extras.

-- Trevor
I got my Superbit dvd's today and the picture and sound is stunning. I have compared them to the standard dvd's that look good on my system and they definately DO look better , so the money has been well spent. I had them (Lawrence of Arabia and Das Boot) running through composite and they looked great. Can't wait to hook up dvi-hdmi. :) The picture is crystal clear and also i have found a big difference in brightness, the picture is even brighter. I really dont know how others are viewing there dvd's, but i am truly satisfied with the picture i have here :) I f you guys were only here to see it, i'm sure you would agree. N ow to start lookin for some more on superbit, i think i am addicted to video quality. :cool: Regards Grassy :) :)

I got my Superbit dvd's today and the picture and sound is stunning. I have compared them to the standard dvd's that look good on my system and they definately DO look better , so the money has been well spent. I had them (Lawrence of Arabia and Das Boot) running through composite and they looked great. Can't wait to hook up dvi-hdmi. :) The picture is crystal clear and also i have found a big difference in brightness, the picture is even brighter. I really dont know how others are viewing there dvd's, but i am truly satisfied with the picture i have here :) I f you guys were only here to see it, i'm sure you would agree. N ow to start lookin for some more on superbit, i think i am addicted to video quality. :cool: Regards Grassy :) :)

I used to use S-Video (actually a respectable upgrade from composite), but eventually moved to component direct from the player (my A/V processor is limited to Composite and S-Video). With my recent acquisition of HDMI capable players, I'm now using HDMI upscaled output -- major upgrade over what were already very decent pictures :).

I'm sure you'll be VERY pleased with your SB viewing over HDMI :).

-- Trevor

PS. I still use S-Video, but only for VHS, LD, and CD/SACD/DVD-A player.

I used to use S-Video (actually a respectable upgrade from composite), but eventually moved to component direct from the player (my A/V processor is limited to Composite and S-Video). With my recent acquisition of HDMI capable players, I'm now using HDMI upscaled output -- major upgrade over what were already very decent pictures :).

I'm sure you'll be VERY pleased with your SB viewing over HDMI :).

-- Trevor

PS. I still use S-Video, but only for VHS, LD, and CD/SACD/DVD-A player.
Actually, i made an error in saying composite, i meant component, thanks for pointing that out in your coments on a "respectable upgrade". :) I wonder if i will see much difference between component and dvi-Hdmi? What is HDMI upscaled? When the term "upscaled" is used in home theatre, i find it hard to follow. Thanks Grassy.

I got my Superbit dvd's today and the picture and sound is stunning. .. I f you guys were only here to see it, i'm sure you would agree. N ow to start lookin for some more on superbit, i think i am addicted to video quality. :cool: Regards Grassy :) :)

Grassy, pony up some plane tickets and I am sure that you will have plenty of volunteers to come check out your system! :)

Brett

Has anyone tried the foreign SB DVD's yet? Japenese titles are Region 2 and NTSC. I have been watching them on eBay and was thinking of getting the JP Trilogy in SB. My LG-3510a is region free so should be able to play any NTSC DVD. All are advertised w/ English soundtrack even tho foreign writing on case. Also looking at the Matrix and other Sci-fi if JP works out.

Well, I jumped in and bought JP Trilogy SB from a HK distributor on eBay for $27.99 including S&H. I will post in a couple of weeks the results. After I bought it, Istarted wondering if these are bootleg versions. Hope not. Anybody got any info on whether I bought a legit version or not for Region 2?

Grassy, Das Boot is on my wish list. Hoping to eventually find it for $9.99 at one of the BB's or cheaper on eBay. Hope you enjoy your copy as I thoroughly enjoyed the movie when I rented it a few yrs ago.

Brett

Actually, i made an error in saying composite, i meant component, thanks for pointing that out in your coments on a "respectable upgrade". :) I wonder if i will see much difference between component and dvi-Hdmi? What is HDMI upscaled? When the term "upscaled" is used in home theatre, i find it hard to follow. Thanks Grassy.

I actually think pretty highly of S-Video since when I switched to direct component on my 36" XBR (instead of switched S-Video), it took me a while to really recognize the very modest increase in upscaled DVD definition (using the XBR internal x4 scaler and excellent video cables for both formats) -- of course, after recognizing it, I would not consider going back :).

I'm currently using an LG DVB418 on a Westinghouse 37w2 (HDMI) in one room and an RCA HDV5000 with the XBR (DVI-D) in my main room. The Westinghouse is a 1366x768 LCD and looks best with a 720p input, so I'm using the LG to upscale all DVD (ie. scale the base 480i up to 720p). Said upscaling is done entirely in the digital domain, and with it connected via HDMI, remains so from DVD to actual display.

This bypasses the video DACs in the player and the reverse video ADCs in the Westinghouse. I found the resulting picture improvement easier to see than my old change from S-Video to Component on the XBR. The CRT XBR likes 1080i and the upgrade moving from Component to DVI-D input with the upscaling RCA was striking, even though the XBR internal x4 scaler does a super fine job.

Ultimately, I would expect you to see a distinct improvement moving to HDMI/DVI-D. The degree of improvement will depend on the quality of the Component cables you previously used.

Note that a DVD can be either 480i or 480p, but the first thing the player does is convert all 480p to 480i. Then upscaling (if desired) converts that to one of 480p, 720p, or 1080i (possibly as far as 1080p).

Upscaling from interlaced to progressive is when the reverse 3:2 pulldown processing can be required to properly reconstruct the original film progressive sequence. That's when the user has to consider which player mode to use such as "film" VS "video" Vs "Auto". Different players make the upscaling decisions differently and, depending on the individual DVD, can deliver less than optimal pictures. The "Home Theater Secrets" website evaluates and discusses these issues (also provides test results).

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_3/dvd-benchmark-introduction-9-2000.html

-- Trevor

Well, I jumped in and bought JP Trilogy SB from a HK distributor on eBay for $27.99 including S&H. I will post in a couple of weeks the results. After I bought it, Istarted wondering if these are bootleg versions. Hope not. Anybody got any info on whether I bought a legit version or not for Region 2?

Grassy, Das Boot is on my wish list. Hoping to eventually find it for $9.99 at one of the BB's or cheaper on eBay. Hope you enjoy your copy as I thoroughly enjoyed the movie when I rented it a few yrs ago.

Brett

Unfortunately, at that price, they are almost certainly bootleg. But that doesn't necessarily mean the PQ isn't good. Hope it works out OK.

-- Trevor

Unfortunately, at that price, they are almost certainly bootleg. But that doesn't necessarily mean the PQ isn't good. Hope it works out OK.

-- Trevor

Prefer it not to be bootleg as I do not want to promote piracy. I'm hoping for cheaper production runs over there. I've heard that the cost of making a DVD is much cheaper than the retail price. I think a distributor can get a DVD for $3 or less. Seems like I heard/saw that from a US Today article on an eBay seller that sales DVDs exclusively on-line.

Brett

I've heard that the cost of making a DVD is much cheaper than the retail price.

Brett

Of course! But don't forget the royalties, transportation, storage costs too.

Just like audio CD. The cost of pressing a CD (with booklets, jewel case etc) is about $1. But that does not include the cost of album creation, promotion, music video (part of promotion), graphic designer, photographer (even something as simple as a Britney album can easily cost beyond $2 mil not including TV / radio ads). Plus the transportation cost, glass master, storage, royalties to the singer, musicians, songwriter, producers.

One can't just base retail cost on manufacturing cost alone.

I actually think pretty highly of S-Video since when I switched to direct component on my 36" XBR (instead of switched S-Video), it took me a while to really recognize the very modest increase in upscaled DVD definition (using the XBR internal x4 scaler and excellent video cables for both formats) -- of course, after recognizing it, I would not consider going back :).

I'm currently using an LG DVB418 on a Westinghouse 37w2 (HDMI) in one room and an RCA HDV5000 with the XBR (DVI-D) in my main room. The Westinghouse is a 1366x768 LCD and looks best with a 720p input, so I'm using the LG to upscale all DVD (ie. scale the base 480i up to 720p). Said upscaling is done entirely in the digital domain, and with it connected via HDMI, remains so from DVD to actual display.

This bypasses the video DACs in the player and the reverse video ADCs in the Westinghouse. I found the resulting picture improvement easier to see than my old change from S-Video to Component on the XBR. The CRT XBR likes 1080i and the upgrade moving from Component to DVI-D input with the upscaling RCA was striking, even though the XBR internal x4 scaler does a super fine job.

Ultimately, I would expect you to see a distinct improvement moving to HDMI/DVI-D. The degree of improvement will depend on the quality of the Component cables you previously used.

Note that a DVD can be either 480i or 480p, but the first thing the player does is convert all 480p to 480i. Then upscaling (if desired) converts that to one of 480p, 720p, or 1080i (possibly as far as 1080p).

Upscaling from interlaced to progressive is when the reverse 3:2 pulldown processing can be required to properly reconstruct the original film progressive sequence. That's when the user has to consider which player mode to use such as "film" VS "video" Vs "Auto". Different players make the upscaling decisions differently and, depending on the individual DVD, can deliver less than optimal pictures. The "Home Theater Secrets" website evaluates and discusses these issues (also provides test results).

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_3/dvd-benchmark-introduction-9-2000.html

-- Trevor
I find that i get image blur at times, especially on component so then i switch back to say standard video or s video and its not so bad, but the picture itself is a little duller.But less image blur, thats why i like pictures like "pirates of the carra" and a lot of others as when they are running through component they seem really fine to watch on my system. I have rented some movies lately and the pictures have been full of motion blur. That is my worst enemy at the moment. Thanks for all that info and i will take a look at that web site. :) Regards Grassy

Grassy, pony up some plane tickets and I am sure that you will have plenty of volunteers to come check out your system! :)

Brett
You supply the tickets and i'll supply the scotch :D Regards Grassy

I was in the ATL Magnolia (up-scale BB) store near Perimeter Mall and was watching a demo of Blu-Ray when I realized that the demo included several SB titles in a row. Probably won't be long until your favorite movie will only be available in hi def. I went over to the BB that was nearby looking for some SB movies and there were very few on the shelves. If you are looking for XXX the Buckhorn store has 6 copies. It was too late in the evening for me to get down there and procure a copy for me.

When I got back to Huntspatch, I finished watching 5th Element SB. I paid close attention to the Diva scene as that was in the BR demo. I thought the PQ of the SB version was good enough to dissuade me from paying premium price for the BR version (if I had a BR player to play it on). I noticed that I could clearly see the policeman's eyes under his helmet and the diva's mouth behind her veil. I always remembered the helmet as being opaque. Need to go back to see if same detail was in the original release.

BTW the Magnolia store had some good prices on the open box displays for anyone looking.

anyone have problems with their Leon: The Professional suberbit DVD? mines perfect except for like 2 or 3 chapters (when matilda goes back to her apartment to get the money out of the floorboards) there are really bad interlacing artifacts at 1:05:20 into the movie (according to VLC player), and they dissappear a couple of chapters later, it appears that the framerate goes up to 30 for these couple of chapters, and the back down to 24, anyone else seeing/seen this problem?