My brother wants to buy a DVR for his HTS he's planning on building soon. He doesn't even own a set-top DVD player, so I told him he should get a DVD recorder instead of a DVD player and a VCR. He agrees. So he asked me which DVR to buy. We narrowed it down to the choices shown below (for the most part, unless someone can give a compeling reason for another make/model).

When I asked him how he'd prioritize on what's most important, he said (from most to least important):
Quality, Extra Features, Price, TV Guide (EPG), then Appearance

We'd appreciate your input. TIA.

Pioneer DVR-640H-S:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/product/details/0,,2076_310069745_303089277,00.html

Panasonic DMR-EH75VS:
http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&itemId=97246&catGroupId=24987&modelNo=DMR-EH75VS&surfModel=DMR-EH75VS&cacheProgram=11002&cachePartner=7000000000000005702

Panasonic DMR-EH55S:
http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&itemId=97245&catGroupId=24987&modelNo=DMR-EH55S&surfModel=DMR-EH55S&cacheProgram=11002&cachePartner=7000000000000005702

Oh, one more thing, having a built-in hard drive is an absolute requirement. However, it doesn't have to be huge. He's willing to get by on 80 GB, if need be, although 160 GB would be better (and probably more than sufficient).

Does he currently have cable w/ DVR or Sat.w/DVR or is he using an OTA antenna?

Does he currently have any EPG?

Is he willing to read the DVD recorder manual?

If he is planning on using the DVD recorder as a DVR, then HDD size becomes more important. Also TIVO or a cable/sat. provided DVR is easier to use than a DVD recorder. The principal advantage of a DVD recorder is ability to edit content and preserve it on DVD media for later viewing.

I use the DVD recorder HDD as temp storage for editing and sometimes as a DVR. 80Gb has been more than enough for my needs.

I am a fan of the Pioneer hdd DVD recorders, but the current 640h model does not support TVGOS. The Pioneer does work easily with many cable/sat. set top boxes. For example, my TWC SA3250HD cable box and its provided EPG can start and stop recording on my Pioneer 531H dvd recorder by treating the recorder as a Pioneer VCR.

Using TVGOS EPG sucessfully on a DVD recorder is hit or miss. (It did not work for me) Depending on factors usually beyond your control; i.e. your specific local cable or sat company proper handling of TVGOS data.

This forum is a great place for research. Good luck. ;)

Thanks for the reply, Oldemanphil.

I think he has regular cable (probably Time Warner or whatever is offered in northern CA).

No, he doesn't currently have EPG or TiVo. He probably uses tvguide.com to find out what shows will be on when.

Yes, he's willing to learn to read the DVR manual. He better! LOL

The people that have the most trouble with TVGOS are the Pioneer owners. Seems like it was never implemented right with that brand. That's most likely one of the reasons they chose to not include it anymore.

Most people with the Panny's (or others) don't have anywhere near the amount of problems with it.

The new Panny models' TVGOS also works with satellite and is more compatible with digital cable boxes than in the past.

I spoke with a Panisonic engineer recently and he was all for the 75 over the 55. The DVR part is the same for both. The only difference is the 55 has a larger HD and the 75 has a vcr.

I spoke with a Panisonic engineer recently and he was all for the 75 over the 55. The DVR part is the same for both. The only difference is the 55 has a larger HD and the 75 has a vcr.

Hi. Newbie here... I just discovered this great forum! I'm also trying to decide btwn the Pioneer DVR-640 & Panny DMR-EH55S. beekeeper, why did your source prefer the 75 over the 55? Because of the VCR?

This would be my first foray into DVR... here are my goals:
- record from digital cable tv with the ability to edit programming before burning to dvd
- edit existing VHS tapes before burning content to dvd
- ability to timer record programs on different cable channels w/o having to manually change channels on cable box
- edit camcorder footage before burning to dvd (not as important as I usually edit footage on my computer)

What I have:
- Comcast digital cable box with EPG
- non-HD TV but looking to purchase one within next year
- Pioneer DVD player
- Sony VCR

Will I be able to do what I want with either the Pioneer 640 or Panny 55... or 75? Thanks for your help.

Oh... and I am willing to read the manual! :D

The Pioneer model will have better image quality than the Panasonic units ... also the Pioneer method of selecting a recording time is in some ways (most ways) better than the way the Panasonic units do it ... especially when mixing/matching multiple recordings to one DVD disc.

The Pioneer model will have better image quality than the Panasonic units ...

And this is because? Not arguing, just curious why you say this.

One other thing, I haven't seen mentioned is that the Panasonics have an HDMI output for upconverting. Don't know if this is important or not.

Also the Panasonics have DV input, the Pioneer does not.

And this is because? Not arguing, just curious why you say this.

One other thing, I haven't seen mentioned is that the Panasonics have an HDMI output for upconverting. Don't know if this is important or not.
From tests that I have seen the quality of the Pioneer units is far better than that of the Panasonic units. By quality I am talking about the image/video quality of recordings. The Pioneer is simply superior not to mention it is very flexible in the design of how you can record and edit and blah blah blah.

Since quality is your brother's number one concern ... there you go.

Please note that this forum seems to have an unnatural obsession with the Pansonic DVD recorders.

This strange obsession I think stems from the fact that there were very many early DVD recorder adopters here and in the early days Panasonic was really the only game in town ... and at that time were good for what they did.

But that time is long gone and while the Panasonic's are very functional for the most part (I still like Pionner's implementation of "Flex Record" better) the quality of the MPEG-2 recordings has never been steller and compared to other DVD recorders out now ... let's just say that Panasonic is not an IMAGE/VIDEO quality unit.

The one exception (to an extent) was the Panasonic DMR-ES20 since it used the LSI video chipset ... to date the only Panasonic to do so. Of course as luck would have it that model is gone now ... replaced with newer models with the crap ass Panasonic MPEG-2 chipset.

Is Panasonic that bad of a choice? ... only if you care about the IMAGE/VIDEO quality of your material.

Why people here cannot SEE the poor Panasonic quality for themselves is something that I and other people I know can't figure out ... it's a real puzzle ... other than to say that at times the poor video quality aspects can be subtle to the layman. It also helps if you have some video "work" in your past such as working on video capture through a computer or analog editing in the old days between VCR units etc.

Besides, with Panasonic, you could be exposed to their infamous optoelectromechanicotimerofreezoblackoskipotvgomedio problems.

The new Pioneer 640 has eliminated its greatest fault, the tvgo problem.

Thanks to all your replies, esp. to FulciZombieFan for typing all that out and giving a good explanation. I will pass this thread onto my brother so that he can make the final decision. My recommendation to him would be w/ the Pioneer. Heck, if/when I get a house and build a HTS, I'd lean toward Pioneer. But I'll of course do my due diligence research at that time. :)

Pioneer - 10 bit analog-to-digital converter.
Panasonic - 12 bit analog-to-digital converter.

Yeah, Pioneer has better technology than Panasonic... :rolleyes:

Oh, and the TVGOS EPG works better on the Pioneer DVD recorders... :rolleyes: (the 640 does really not have TVGOS)

Also the 2006 640 DVD recorder has DV input for camcorders... :rolleyes: (the 640 does not really have DV input)

I forgot, the 640 has HDMI output... :rolleyes: (the 640 does not really have HDMI out put)

How could I have been so mistaken... ;)

I have edited this for clarity. I was making a point, and it seems I was misunderstood.

There is a thread over at the VIDEOHELP.COM (http://www.videohelp.com/) website where I posted a bunch of images from recordings that were done with my Pioneer DVR-531H-s and this model is not that different (basically the same) from the DVR-640H-S

Here is the link ---> CLICK HERE (http://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=284140&highlight=)

Pioneer - 10 bit analog-to-digital converter.
Panasonic - 12 bit analog-to-digital converter.
This really means nothing. The difference between 10 bit and 12 bit is not noticeable with SD material. Hell one could barely see the difference between 9 bit and 10 bit video capture cards (computer based).

Yeah, Pioneer has better technology than Panasonic... :rolleyes:
You are obnoxious

Oh, and the TVGOS EPG works better on the Pioneer DVD recorders... :rolleyes:
OK so the Pioneer doesn't do TVGOS EPG whatever very well but who cares. People that care are cry babies. This function is worthless ... akin to VCR+ Plus garbage ... learn to set your recordings manually. It's really freakin' simple and never fails.

Also the 2006 640 DVD recorder has DV input for camcorders... :rolleyes:
If you understood video and had real world examples to draw on (i.e., experience) then you would know that this is really a non-issue. In other words the analog output of a digital camcorder ... when hooked directly up to a stand alone DVD recorder ... will give quality that is really virtually undetectable VS. using a DV/FIREWIRE/IEEE 1394 connection. This is one of those cases were real world and theory just do not add up to match each other.


I forgot, the 640 has HDMI output... :rolleyes:

How could I have been so mistaken... ;)
Did I mention how utterly obnoxious you are?

Personal attacks are always appreciated on this forum.

Thank you.

Extremely happy owner of the Pioneer 640 right here. First DVD-R owned, and I absolutely love it. Well worth the $370, IMO.

Personal attacks are always appreciated on this forum.

Thank you.
Other than stating a simple fact (that you are utterly obnoxious) I do believe that my follow up to your nonsensical musings has some creditable information.

A personal attack is when you say, "Yo momma is ..." when you run out of facts to back up your point.

But when someone is a obnoxious and you simply point it out then I would not call that a personal attack. That would be called REALITY.

Hi just bought a pioneer dvr-640 brilliant picture and superb hard drive, having a problem playing some movies (over 200) I ripped using dvd x copy and dvd x copy platinum I have recently tried dvd cloner 3 all ripped to tdk disks, some just don't play (around 30) but are fine on my old panasonic player and computer, I spoke to Pioneer who said its a hardware problem as the big dvd player manufacturers have done a deal with the movie studies to stop pirating which sounds plausible,
has anybody else had a problem playing ripped movies.

Rupotty? :)

Hi just bought a pioneer dvr-640 brilliant picture and superb hard drive, having a problem playing some movies (over 200) I ripped using dvd x copy and dvd x copy platinum I have recently tried dvd cloner 3 all ripped to tdk disks, some just don't play (around 30) but are fine on my old panasonic player and computer, I spoke to Pioneer who said its a hardware problem as the big dvd player manufacturers have done a deal with the movie studies to stop pirating which sounds plausible,
has anybody else had a problem playing ripped movies.

Rupotty? :)
Try not to use the Pioneer DVD recorder as your main DVD player ... it will last longer than way.

Plus you side step the whole issue you are experiencing. Although that is something I haven't heard of truth be told.

Usually the issue you are having has to do with either the way the DVD disc was burned OR the media that you used.

For shits and giggles I would try backing up a DVD using DVDShrink (it is free) and then burn it using another free program called ImgBurn. If possible try something other than TDK and try a DVD-R instead of DVD+R although both should work. If using DVD+R change the booktype to DVD-ROM instead of DVD+R ... that process is called bitsetting but can only be done with some models of burners. If your DVD burner cannot do bitsetting then you should be burning DVD-R discs and not DVD+R discs.

All the programs I mentioned can be found at the VIDEOHELP.COM (http://www.videohelp.com/) website.

Fulci, those are some interesting and informative pics you posted on videohelp.com. The hi-def. signal makes such a huge difference. :eek:

My bro will use this DVD player as his primary player, but I don't think he has many non-DVD format DVDs, so I think he should be OK w/ his media ... hopefully.

Can someone verify if the 640 DOES have dv input. Reading above rgazzara says it does My understanding was no. I'm researching it right now and can't seem to find anywhere where it says it does. Want to make sure since this is a convenience feature I want. Thanks

My understanding is that it does not.

Here's something of a spec sheet (http://bobkart.gt3times.com/PDF/DVR-640H-S.pdf).

Mine doesn't.

This really means nothing. The difference between 10 bit and 12 bit is not noticeable with SD material. Hell one could barely see the difference between 9 bit and 10 bit video capture cards (computer based).

So they are barely(but still) noticeable going up 1 bit, but not noticeable(at all) going up 2? I have nothing to compare at home, so I really don't know on this one, but I just find it strange.

OK so the Pioneer doesn't do TVGOS EPG whatever very well but who cares. People that care are cry babies. This function is worthless ... akin to VCR+ Plus garbage ... learn to set your recordings manually. It's really freakin' simple and never fails.

So because someone cares about a feature and you don't, you call them crybabies? :rolleyes:

If you understood video and had real world examples to draw on (i.e., experience) then you would know that this is really a non-issue. In other words the analog output of a digital camcorder ... when hooked directly up to a stand alone DVD recorder ... will give quality that is really virtually undetectable VS. using a DV/FIREWIRE/IEEE 1394 connection. This is one of those cases were real world and theory just do not add up to match each other.

This is one I do know from experience and I say Hogwash. DV input most certainly does make a difference. I have seen in on BOTH my DVD recorders. My previous Philips(DVDR17) and now my Panasonic(DMR-ES75V). How you can talk so much about image quality and NOT see a difference using DV vs analog, I really don't have a clue.

This really means nothing. The difference between 10 bit and 12 bit is not noticeable with SD material. Hell one could barely see the difference between 9 bit and 10 bit video capture cards (computer based).


You are obnoxious


OK so the Pioneer doesn't do TVGOS EPG whatever very well but who cares. People that care are cry babies. This function is worthless ... akin to VCR+ Plus garbage ... learn to set your recordings manually. It's really freakin' simple and never fails.


If you understood video and had real world examples to draw on (i.e., experience) then you would know that this is really a non-issue. In other words the analog output of a digital camcorder ... when hooked directly up to a stand alone DVD recorder ... will give quality that is really virtually undetectable VS. using a DV/FIREWIRE/IEEE 1394 connection. This is one of those cases were real world and theory just do not add up to match each other.



Did I mention how utterly obnoxious you are?


But have you actually compared Pioneer DVR-640H-S vs. Panasonic DMR-EH75VS vs. Panasonic DMR-EH55S (title of thread) on a simultaneous feed (source ) and compared the playback video quality of the burned DVD on a highly rated DVD player? NO. Now you may have tested the E-15 2006-I do not know- with screen shots. But that is no substitute for watching a burned DVD-R in a comparison test, IMHO. So I believe at this time your statement that the 640 has a better video quality(on a burned DVD) is unsubstantiated. Since you have not tested the other two Panny models, the claims you made or inferred that the Pio 640 has superior video recording quality are totally baseless. And to top it off you have not even tested the Pio 640, but base your wild claims on your Pio 531 which I have and agree is a good one but my conclusions are based on same feed recordings and burned DVD-R comparisons using different DVDRS under exact, same parameters and conditions. You need to attempt to quash these outlandish agenda statements on the units of this thread until you can perform the proper tests on them. Oh and yeah ,cut the personal attacks, it totally weakens any case that you could have.

This really means nothing. The difference between 10 bit and 12 bit is not noticeable with SD material. Hell one could barely see the difference between 9 bit and 10 bit video capture cards (computer based).


You are obnoxious


OK so the Pioneer doesn't do TVGOS EPG whatever very well but who cares. People that care are cry babies. This function is worthless ... akin to VCR+ Plus garbage ... learn to set your recordings manually. It's really freakin' simple and never fails.


If you understood video and had real world examples to draw on (i.e., experience) then you would know that this is really a non-issue. In other words the analog output of a digital camcorder ... when hooked directly up to a stand alone DVD recorder ... will give quality that is really virtually undetectable VS. using a DV/FIREWIRE/IEEE 1394 connection. This is one of those cases were real world and theory just do not add up to match each other.



Did I mention how utterly obnoxious you are?TVGOS is not worthless when it works. It's a great feature for free. Setting recordings with it are MUCH less work than doing it manually. Many people, including myself, have never had any missed recordings with it.

Buy a Pioneer with TVGOS, and chances are, it will be worthless. It's really the only brand that has had consistent problems with it.

I am a previous owner of a 2005 Pioneer 531 DVR (Which had many major annoyances in my mind) – I moved up to this more expensive 2006 Panasonic EH75 and am really pleased with it. (about 1.5 months).

My reason for purchase is both to enjoy easy recording of TV shows (time shifting with a interactive on-screen TV Guide – & eliminating commercials), and transferring my old VHS tapes to DVD’s. This Panasonic EH75V is astonishing good at both tasks!

TVGOS (TV Guide on Screen) – so far has worked perfect. (It never worked longer than a few days on the 531, and was slow and unresponsive when it occasionally did work). The Panasonic is a pure pleasure to operate. The internal CPU must be much faster as all remote control operations (in the TV Guide) work almost instantly. The TVGOS appears to be a newer version – has many newer features than the 531’s TVGOS had – is much more user friendly.

POWER OUT - Here in Florida we have our share of Power Outages - the Pioneer 531 died everytime the power even flickered and immediately needed another 24 hours to get its initial TV Guide listing back - (and usually many more days and resets later to get even a few days listings again.) The Panasonic has breezed thru 2 Power off events so far unaffected - losing nothing. (I've never had to reset the Panny since I initially set it up - I had to reset the 531 1-2 times per month for the 6 months I owned 2 different ones.

PICTURE – EQUAL to the 531 in SP (standard play) (in other words the DVR recorded picture on my 52” Toshiba TV is pretty much impossible to tell from “live”), and the Panasonic is far superior in LP to the 531. (All the reports that the Panasonic LP is almost the same as SP are true.)! Sound is also incredible.

DVR /HDD NOISE – The hard drive on the 531 was NOISY-....PERIOD! (I owned 2 - both the same - anyone that says they are not noisy is deaf)!– The Panasonic is dead quiet – not a whisper (except when using the DVD, a few normal drive sounds may be heard).

REMOTE – I’d read it wasn’t as logical as the Pioneer’s – but as far as I can see it’s just as good. The commercial Skip button appears to also work faster / better (because it skips in 1 minute chunks, and also cause the whole machine responds faster than the 531. Some operations allow multiple selections first.

START-UP – Also as advertised, it goes on and is ready to record in about 2 secs max! (You do have to wait 10-20 secs to get the TV Guide - (the wait time on the 531 was 30-60 secs while it says WAIT - then another 20-40 secs before anything works).

USER MANUAL – About 2-3 times more info than the Pioneer manual, but somewhat more difficult to find specific subjects. (Maybe because there is so much more detail)!

Copying VHS tapes – excellent. The actual built-in VCR is quite good with excellent controls and a super fast rewind. The HDD recorded picture is equal or better than the original. I edit, create thumbs, “author”, and high-speed record onto DVD’s. Works great. (There are less choices for the DVD Menu than the Pioneer had).

EDITING – Very much the same as on the Pioneer 531 (They are so close to looking/working the same it really makes you wonder - who copied whom???) – Standard stuff like Shorten (beginning, end, or middle), Divide, Copy List, Delete, Thumbnail, etc. allow you to do just about whatever you need to from the remote. On-screen Title Name input and edit is far superior on the Panasonic.

NAVIGATOR – like Pioneer shows thumbs (but 6 at a time) – with sound/motion.

ANNOYANCES – (few and minor when the 100’s of different functions it performs so well are considered)…(and maybe because I am not doing something correctly – any help will be appreciated):

Minor: Apparently – while it will High-Speed Copy a HDD title to a DVD-R (or) RW (20-30 mins for a 2 hour show) – it will NOT High-Speed Copy the DVD back to the HDD – (only in real time (2 hrs). (It will however, high-speed copy in both directions to a DVD-RAM).

Minor: It does not seem to care when the end of a HDD prerecorded show (title) is reached, it just keeps playing the next, and the next – apparently it will just keep playing everything on the whole HDD. (I guess some people like this, but I got use to the Pioneer, where at the end of a title (show), it stops and takes you back to the Navigator. Ideally there would be a setting to have it either way).

Having owned (2) new Pioneer 531's - and now this Panasonic EH-75 - and being somewhat of a nut on wanting a perfect picture on my very clear 52" Toshiba - I really question those who claim the Pioneer picture in SP is better - it appears about the same as the Panasonic EH-75 to me - (and of course the Panasonic's LP quality blows the Pioneer away).

BOTTOM LINE – When you consider that the Panasonic also includes VCR, SD and DV input, supports about every DVD format (-) & (+) & DL & RAM & DivX , and HDMI High-Def Up-Conversion and HDAVI Control, and includes a newer TV On Screen Guide that really works - it is an Outstanding unit worthy of your consideration!

I am a previous owner of a 2005 Pioneer 531 DVR (Which had many major annoyances in my mind) – I moved up to this more expensive 2006 Panasonic EH75 and am really pleased with it. (about 1.5 months).
I must have missed something...this is a nice review, too bad it was wasted on the wrong Pio unit!

Maybe you could post your review in the thread titled "Comparing 2005 Pios to 2006 Panys"?

[QUOTE=SiestaKeyJim]I am a previous owner of a 2005 Pioneer 531 DVR (Which had many major annoyances in my mind) – I moved up to this more expensive 2006 Panasonic EH75 and am really pleased with it. (about 1.5 months).

Great review from someone who has actually owned and use both in the real world
Thanks JOE

WARNING to all Panasonic owners...STOP TOUCHING YOUR MACHINES!

The "de-logic" circuit in your machine is screwin' with your brain cells!!!

I must have missed something...this is a nice review, too bad it was wasted on the wrong Pio unit!

Maybe you could post your review in the thread titled "Comparing 2005 Pios to 2006 Panys"?

According to FulciZombieFan, they are basically the same...

There is a thread over at the VIDEOHELP.COM (http://www.videohelp.com/) website where I posted a bunch of images from recordings that were done with my Pioneer DVR-531H-s and this model is not that different (basically the same) from the DVR-640H-S

According to FulciZombieFan, they are basically the same...
I'm not sure, but I don't think Fulci has a 640!?

Anyway, you must own a Pany and have touched it recently...that's not the point of my post...it's the logic of comparing a 2005 unit to a diff. brand of 2006 unit., and one that's NOT the subject of this thread.

It would be diff. if someone compares one brand's 2005 and 2006 same-type model, but claiming superiority for a later model of a diff. brand is ludicrous!

I'm not sure, but I don't think Fulci has a 640!?

Anyway, you must own a Pany and have touched it recently...that's not the point of my post...it's the logic of comparing a 2005 unit to a diff. brand of 2006 unit., and one that's NOT the subject of this thread.

Agreed. Too bad you didn't post the same, back when Fulci posted his picture links. That would have stemmed quite a bit of this discussion.

Agreed. Too bad you didn't post the same, back when Fulci posted his picture links. That would have stemmed quite a bit of this discussion.
Agreed, also. 'nuf said.:)

I am also seeking a new DVR with a HD, and this post has been very helpful on a number of points. I do have some unresolved questions:

[1] - Fan noise. This is a big problem on my firends Toshiba RD-XS54, and I am curious about the comparison between the Pio 640 and the Pana 75? It seems like all DVD Recorders with hard drives have some fan noise, but the Toshiba was like a small hoover vacume.

[2] - 4-Pin Firewire input. Do the Pio 640 and Pana 75 both have this input on the front?

[3] - Disable TVGOS. In my application, I will be using the DVD Recorder to record selected groupings (all kid shows, all Letterman, etc.) from my Comcast DVR onto a DVD, as well as copy VCR's to DVD. My Comcast DVR will do the direct TV program recordings. The fact that prior Pioneer models (633 for example) not only had trouble with TVGOS, but you could not disable the function, was a deal killer for me. I know the Pio 640 doesn't have it, but can it be disabled in the Pana 75 - or is it not a factor if not connected to a TV signal source?

[4] - Rights Management. I have read in prior posts that some / all of these units would not record premium cable recordings (HBO, Showtime, etc.). Is this true?

[5] - Issues with duping from one DVR to another. My main source of media will be programming already recorded onto my Comcast DVR. Are there issues with recording from a DVR such as this onto a DVD recorder such as the Pio 640 or the Pana 75?

I am a previous owner of a 2005 Pioneer 531 DVR (Which had many major annoyances in my mind) – I moved up to this more expensive 2006 Panasonic EH75 and am really pleased with it. (about 1.5 months).

Excellent review! And quite appropriate considering the previous claim that the Pioneer 531 is equivalent to the 640, but as wabjxo put it, nuff said. ;)

PLasmaSync, I have a Pio 640, and a Comcast DVR. I have had no problem with recording from either the DVR's HDD, or from the DVR in real time, as the program is broadcast, even with premium channels. I have both units hooked up to a Denon A/V receiver, and record onto the 640 using the L3 input, from the Denon, with the DVR selected. I try to record directly onto the HDD of the 640 as the program is broadcast, when I can, to save one encode/decode cycle. But the ones I've recorded from the HDD of the DVR came out nice too.

I am also seeking a new DVR with a HD, and this post has been very helpful on a number of points. I do have some unresolved questions:

[1] - Fan noise. This is a big problem on my firends Toshiba RD-XS54, and I am curious about the comparison between the Pio 640 and the Pana 75? It seems like all DVD Recorders with hard drives have some fan noise, but the Toshiba was like a small hoover vacume.

[2] - 4-Pin Firewire input. Do the Pio 640 and Pana 75 both have this input on the front?

[3] - Disable TVGOS. In my application, I will be using the DVD Recorder to record selected groupings (all kid shows, all Letterman, etc.) from my Comcast DVR onto a DVD, as well as copy VCR's to DVD. My Comcast DVR will do the direct TV program recordings. The fact that prior Pioneer models (633 for example) not only had trouble with TVGOS, but you could not disable the function, was a deal killer for me. I know the Pio 640 doesn't have it, but can it be disabled in the Pana 75 - or is it not a factor if not connected to a TV signal source?

[4] - Rights Management. I have read in prior posts that some / all of these units would not record premium cable recordings (HBO, Showtime, etc.). Is this true?

[5] - Issues with duping from one DVR to another. My main source of media will be programming already recorded onto my Comcast DVR. Are there issues with recording from a DVR such as this onto a DVD recorder such as the Pio 640 or the Pana 75?

Hello PlasmaSync and To All,

I hope I can shed some light with your questions.


1-I do own a Toshiba RD-XS55. The fan noise is audible only if you place your ear on the back of the unit with complete silence. And un-noticeable while the TV (or anything else) is on. I too have seen reviews on fan noise on the RD-XS54. This newer model must have improved it.


2-I don’t know or own the Pio 640/Pana 75. But I can tell you that the Toshiba RD-XS55 does have the 4-pin firewire input in the front panel.

3-As with some of these units, including myself, still having problems with TVGOS. I don’t believe you can disable it. I never have to, I maybe wrong.

4-I never had a problem recording any premium channels (manually). I have Cablevision IO gold package with VOD and Anime on demand. The only time the rights management kicks in (sometimes) is after I finish a recording onto my HDD. Meaning, I was allowed to copy a program only once to either the HDD or disk (DVD-R). Can’t copy that same program from the HDD to a disk and vise-versa. And if I made a recording (HBO,Showtime,MAX,Encore,VOD, etc) to the DVD-RAM, it doesn’t show up at all.

5-Sorry. Can’t help in this area :( . I only have a digital cablebox.



I tried my best with my experiences on the Toshiba RD-XS55. Hopefully, many others would add to this :D .

PLasmasync, there is no firewire on the 640. It has component output, and S-Vid inputs. As to fan noise, the only time I hear noise from the 640 is when I am doing a HS copy, and have no sound turned on. Even then, it is low.

Willypinhead - thanks for all of the info, in particular on issues for Digital Rights copies. As I understand it, if you record premium media content (say the Sopranos for example):

[1] - If you record straight from the transmission signal and bypass the DVD Recorder's hard drive and burn it onto a DVD-R "live" it will work.

[2] - If you record it onto the DVD recorder's hard drive first, and then try to burn a copy onto a DVD-R disc it will NOT work.

[3] - If you record it onto a DVR device HD (like Tivo or Comcast DVR), and then either try to copy it to another DVD Recorder's HD like the Pana 75 or Pio 640 it will NOT work. It will also NOT work if you try to go from a DVR device HD straight to a DVD Recorders DVD-R disc.

Is this correct in your experience? Do all of the DVD Recorders (Panasonic, Pioneer, Toshiba, Sony, etc.) have these issues? Is this only with "premium" media content such as HBO, Showtime, Pay Per View, etc.?

SiestaKeyJim, that is one great review! As others said, too bad an older Pioneer was used to compare the newer Panasonic. But I suppose the implication is that the older Pioneer would be similar enough to the current model. However, I would assume that the newer Pioneer would alleviate some of the problems you observed, such as speeding up the CPU, fixing TVGOS (at least a little more), and perhaps addressing some of the annoyances.

My brother is still torn between the 2 models. I told him to flip a coin. That way, if his choice turned out to be the wrong one, then he could simply blame bad luck on it. :D

Thanks again to everyone's input. And keep them coming. :)

I am not here to compare the two recorders. I did extensive homework on all DVD Recorders and ironically it came down to these two models. If two models are identical with all features then it is easier to decide based on accurate, unbiased, factual test results. Ususally, however is there ever two units that offer exactly the same features? NOT!

One has to factor-in the factual test results AND personal preferences for a unit. I wanted a VCR in the unit (Panasonic is known for its VCR components and picture quality), because I am transfering my old VHS tapes. I also wanted a DV input for my Mini DV tapes. I had to have a HDD too for editing and storage of recordings.

I saw good reviews for both and probably wouldn't have gone wrong either way, however I chose the Panasonic for the features I wanted. AND I AM NOT SORRY I DID.

It does everything it says it will do. Everything works right and I have not had any problems with it at all. I was one of the first to buy this model back in April. I would recommend the Panasonic (NOT OVER THE PIONEER), but simply I would recommend it.

I am not here to compare the two recorders. I did extensive homework on all DVD Recorders and ironically it came down to these two models. .

Just wondering.... why didn't the Toshiba RD-XS55 make it into your list when you narrowed it down?

Thx.

I am not here to compare the two recorders. I did extensive homework on all DVD Recorders and ironically it came down to these two models. If two models are identical with all features then it is easier to decide based on accurate, unbiased, factual test results. Ususally, however is there ever two units that offer exactly the same features? NOT!

One has to factor-in the factual test results AND personal preferences for a unit. I wanted a VCR in the unit (Panasonic is known for its VCR components and picture quality), because I am transfering my old VHS tapes. I also wanted a DV input for my Mini DV tapes. I had to have a HDD too for editing and storage of recordings.

I saw good reviews for both and probably wouldn't have gone wrong either way, however I chose the Panasonic for the features I wanted. AND I AM NOT SORRY I DID.

It does everything it says it will do. Everything works right and I have not had any problems with it at all. I was one of the first to buy this model back in April. I would recommend the Panasonic (NOT OVER THE PIONEER), but simply I would recommend it.
Glad you like your Panasonic DVR!

My brother finally got his Panasonic DVR a couple days ago. He bought it from 6th Ave. and they took their time shipping it across the country. My brother struggled for about an hour or so trying to get his TV to work while the unit was on (and running the coax cables like one would with a VCR). It finally worked when he fiddled with his JVC TV setting to component video "ON".

He's going to play around w/ it some more this weekend. So far, he says it works pretty well.

He wanted me to thank you guys for your input.

My brother wants to buy a DVR for his HTS he's planning on building soon. He doesn't even own a set-top DVD player, so I told him he should get a DVD recorder instead of a DVD player and a VCR. He agrees. So he asked me which DVR to buy. We narrowed it down to the choices shown below (for the most part, unless someone can give a compeling reason for another make/model).

When I asked him how he'd prioritize on what's most important, he said (from most to least important):
Quality, Extra Features, Price, TV Guide (EPG), then Appearance

We'd appreciate your input. TIA.

Pioneer DVR-640H-S:
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/product/details/0,,2076_310069745_303089277,00.html

Panasonic DMR-EH75VS:
http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&itemId=97246&catGroupId=24987&modelNo=DMR-EH75VS&surfModel=DMR-EH75VS&cacheProgram=11002&cachePartner=7000000000000005702

Panasonic DMR-EH55S:
http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/vModelDetail?storeId=15001&catalogId=13401&itemId=97245&catGroupId=24987&modelNo=DMR-EH55S&surfModel=DMR-EH55S&cacheProgram=11002&cachePartner=7000000000000005702


One difference, which may not be an issue to a lot of people, is the absence of DVD-RW(VR) mode on the Panasonics :-)

(See the "Join the VRade" thread and others for more on this :-)

One difference, which may not be an issue to a lot of people, is the absence of DVD-RW(VR) mode on the Panasonics :-)

(See the "Join the VRade" thread and others for more on this :-)
Thanks, I found it (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=667537). I just skim read that thread and didn't see what VR stands for. :confused:

I have been reading about dvd recorders forever it seem's. I had a Pio 531 with all the tvg problams but other than that I loved it. Of the two, does the panny e55 suffer picture quality wise horribly or just moderately, say 95 percent of the pioneer 640.

One thing that is rarely discussed is divx or mpeg4. I would love to be able to transfer mpeg 4 to the hardrive and watch them from there. I believe this is impossible with both of these.

I saw a daytek model ( and cannot verify this for lack of search info) that may be able to transfer mpeg4 files to the hardrive via usb) for 300 dollars. One "opinion" stated that you could plug in a usb harddrive and play mpeg4 files off of it. Can anyone verify it. Or can anyone point me towards one that can.

Wish List: 1. add files via usb port to hdd including mpeg4
2. play from (including divx,xvid etc) usb devices
3. Pal support (like DVP642)
4. Ability to replace harddrive/plug in one via dv,or usb
5. A working TVG
6.Pause and rewind live tv(without starting a recording.
7.(this will never really happen) Easy conversion via hack to get rid of drm.
8. Others .

I am getting closer and closer to building a custum computer for these things. Vista is just around the corner(expensive).

It is really a pisser that not one manufacter can get them "all" right. a custom system may be on the works for me.

t.selfish, from what my brother said, the Panasonic DVR he got has great picture quality. Others here have also said that Panasonic's PQ is not necessarily inferior to Pioneer's.

That's quite a wish list. Good luck!

Just wondering.... why didn't the Toshiba RD-XS55 make it into your list when you narrowed it down?

Thx.


Price and VCR feature. I needed to convert about 40 VHS tapes and 30 Mini DV tapes. The Toshiba didn't have the VCR feature and because of the 250 HDD it brought the price up there as well. My final 3 were the Panasonic, Pioneer, and Sony, but Sony was either a HDD or a VCR, not both. Also, Sony's VCR mechanics are from Samsung so....quality parts and picture are lacking.

Price and VCR feature. I needed to convert about 40 VHS tapes and 30 Mini DV tapes. The Toshiba didn't have the VCR feature and because of the 250 HDD it brought the price up there as well. My final 3 were the Panasonic, Pioneer, and Sony, but Sony was either a HDD or a VCR, not both. Also, Sony's VCR mechanics are from Samsung so....quality parts and picture are lacking.


So then clearly the Panasonic was the right choice for you, because the Pioneer does not have DV-in... and you had 30 mini-DV's to copy.

The Panasonic is also the only one that can record to ALL formats (+R/RW/DL ; -R/RW/DL ; -RAM) correct?

The Panasonic is also the only one that can record to ALL formats (+R/RW/DL ; -R/RW/DL ; -RAM) correct?
...and the Pio 640.

I have the DMR-EH75VS along with a HT740 HT and Samsung 5087W DLP. One thing I haven't found yet is that the DVR seems to pick odd times to select its chnanel on the cable box to update programming data. So in the middle of a good EPL soccer match I end up getting switched to ETV and have to grab the remote and hit recent channel.

Is there a way to set the times during which the DVR cannot update its program?

So then clearly the Panasonic was the right choice for you, because the Pioneer does not have DV-in... and you had 30 mini-DV's to copy.

The Panasonic is also the only one that can record to ALL formats (+R/RW/DL ; -R/RW/DL ; -RAM) correct?

Panasonics will only record to DVD-RW in Video mode. They will not record to DVD-RW in VR mode...

Willypinhead - thanks for all of the info, in particular on issues for Digital Rights copies. As I understand it, if you record premium media content (say the Sopranos for example):

[1] - If you record straight from the transmission signal and bypass the DVD Recorder's hard drive and burn it onto a DVD-R "live" it will work.

[2] - If you record it onto the DVD recorder's hard drive first, and then try to burn a copy onto a DVD-R disc it will NOT work.

[3] - If you record it onto a DVR device HD (like Tivo or Comcast DVR), and then either try to copy it to another DVD Recorder's HD like the Pana 75 or Pio 640 it will NOT work. It will also NOT work if you try to go from a DVR device HD straight to a DVD Recorders DVD-R disc.

Is this correct in your experience? Do all of the DVD Recorders (Panasonic, Pioneer, Toshiba, Sony, etc.) have these issues? Is this only with "premium" media content such as HBO, Showtime, Pay Per View, etc.?

This is an "ever-growing" issue with DVD Recorders. I own Panasonics and Sonys. They both see the CP unless you record directly to a RAM disc. THe CP is showing up on more and more channels including TNT (just noticed the other night) on our cable system. I am sure that within the next year or so (at least by the 2009 cut-off point to be all digital) most of not all cable stations on Our Company (Comcast) will have CP . Not sure where this is going to leave all of us. It doesn't look to promising to me. Will we wonly be able to record home videos? No TV shows? I for one have only seen the CP enabled that prevents you from copying. I have never seen the Copy-once CP. Interesting. There are stations I can not record at all, unless I record on RAM.

This is an "ever-growing" issue with DVD Recorders. I own Panasonics and Sonys. They both see the CP unless you record directly to a RAM disc. THe CP is showing up on more and more channels including TNT (just noticed the other night) on our cable system. I am sure that within the next year or so (at least by the 2009 cut-off point to be all digital) most of not all cable stations on Our Company (Comcast) will have CP . Not sure where this is going to leave all of us. It doesn't look to promising to me. Will we wonly be able to record home videos? No TV shows? I for one have only seen the CP enabled that prevents you from copying. I have never seen the Copy-once CP. Interesting. There are stations I can not record at all, unless I record on RAM.

Another reason to consider the Polaroid 2001G before they sell out. It does not see this type of CP. As a matter of fact I can use it to pass the video signal to a Toshiba recorder, which has been reported to be very sensitive to this, and the Toshiba will even back up my store bought DVD's. Some of this can be dependent on the recorder as well

I have the DMR-EH75VS along with a HT740 HT and Samsung 5087W DLP. One thing I haven't found yet is that the DVR seems to pick odd times to select its chnanel on the cable box to update programming data. So in the middle of a good EPL soccer match I end up getting switched to ETV and have to grab the remote and hit recent channel.

Is there a way to set the times during which the DVR cannot update its program?

There is no way that I know of to set the EPG download times. To prevent the recorder from starting its EPG download, just turn on the recorder.

I saw my brother for X-mas. (He's the one who prompted me to create this tread.) He really loves his Panasonic DVR and EPG has worked fine for him so far. He recorded something and burned it on a DVD (in "finalized" mode) and it played without any problems on my parents' Pioneer DVR.

Anyone have any other opinions? Now I'm torn between the Pioneer and Panasonics. I really need the best recording quality and am not concerned with TVGOS.

Anyone have any other opinions? Now I'm torn between the Pioneer and Panasonics. I really need the best recording quality and am not concerned with TVGOS.
Here is a thread on side-by-side PQ comparison of several units. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=767206)

Here is a thread on side-by-side PQ comparison of several units. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=767206)
And now i'm more confused than ever... :(

And now i'm more confused than ever... :(
...only 'cause you changed, or added to, your requirements in the other thread!

You added 16:9 recording, but the other thread is on BEST PQ ONLY, which is what you wanted in this thread.

Adding 16:9 changes everything, as I noted in the other thread. :confused:

Which one of these recorders would be the best to use to archive DirectTV HD Tivo shows, both SD and HD Would a non HDD recorder like the es25s be a better choice?

...only 'cause you changed, or added to, your requirements in the other thread!

You added 16:9 recording, but the other thread is on BEST PQ ONLY, which is what you wanted in this thread.

Adding 16:9 changes everything, as I noted in the other thread. :confused:

ok sorry :(

as i said in one of the other threads...i don't need it to set the flag properly...i just need it to be squeezed, at the very least.

Can all of these models do that? Or does it depend on the box? I'd like to get away from depending on my Pioneer cable box for it.

ok sorry :(

as i said in one of the other threads...i don't need it to set the flag properly...i just need it to be squeezed, at the very least.

Can all of these models do that? Or does it depend on the box? I'd like to get away from depending on my Pioneer cable box for it.
The anamorphic squeeze must be provided to the DVD recorder by the source device. The recorder will record whatever it gets, as long as it is 480i (analog NTSC).

Without the widescreen flag, "squeezed" 16x9 recorded programs will playback full screen/width on a 16X9 display (with the DVD player set for 16x9). On a 4x3 TV without the flag, a widescreen program will be horizontally squished to fit into the 4x3 screen.

The widescreen flag would be provided by the source device, recorded by the DVD recorder (I know the Pioneers will, I don't know about the Panasonics either way), and interpreted by the DVD player to provide a letterboxed picture on a 4x3 display when the program is flagged as widescreen.

OK wait a second...

Let's forget the flag for a second. That point is moot because I do all my editing on my PC.

What i'm concerned with is this: if i use any cable box from Time Warner Cable but the Pioneer that I currently have and record an HD channel via s-video, it will generate black bars and won't record with the squeeze (corrected flag or not).

Are you saying that it will record with the squeeze (as long as it's an HD channel) with the Panasonic AND/OR the Pioneer??

The anamorphic squeeze must be provided to the DVD recorder by the source device. The recorder will record whatever it gets, as long as it is 480i (analog NTSC).

Without the widescreen flag, "squeezed" 16x9 recorded programs will playback full screen/width on a 16X9 display (with the DVD player set for 16x9). On a 4x3 TV without the flag, a widescreen program will be horizontally squished to fit into the 4x3 screen.

The widescreen flag would be provided by the source device, recorded by the DVD recorder (I know the Pioneers will, I don't know about the Panasonics either way), and interpreted by the DVD player to provide a letterboxed picture on a 4x3 display when the program is flagged as widescreen.

yes - I think the "logic design" WS flag device proves that a Pioneer will see it if it is provided. I'm not so sure about Panasonic based on a quick test I did. Perhaps logic design can post experience with the device and Panasonic.

if i use any cable box from Time Warner Cable but the Pioneer that I currently have and record an HD channel via s-video, it will generate black bars and won't record with the squeeze (corrected flag or not).

Are you saying that it will record with the squeeze (as long as it's an HD channel) with the Panasonic AND/OR the Pioneer??
When you say "it will generate black bars" I'm not sure which "it" you're referring to. The cable box is where the black bars might come from. Not any recorder. So as long as your cable box doesn't generate black bars, and you'll add the flag in later on PC, you're good to go. Pioneer or Panasonic, no difference in your situation. Once again the cable box is the potential source of problem (letterboxing).

When you say "it will generate black bars" I'm not sure which "it" you're referring to. The cable box is where the black bars might come from. Not any recorder. So as long as your cable box doesn't generate black bars, and you'll add the flag in later on PC, you're good to go. Pioneer or Panasonic, no difference in your situation. Once again the cable box is the potential source of problem (letterboxing).

Well, yes and no. From my experience, all newer cable boxes (including DVR's) through Time Warner Cable will generate black bars when the 1080i signal is input into the DVD recorder. The older Pioneer cable box (which I specifically had to go to 3 locations to find) will output the 16x9 signal without black bars (with the squeeze) but it's the only one I've been able to find.

Is it possible that it's a feature that is that rare? Is it something that most cable boxes do not include?

When you say "it will generate black bars" I'm not sure which "it" you're referring to. The cable box is where the black bars might come from. Not any recorder. So as long as your cable box doesn't generate black bars, and you'll add the flag in later on PC, you're good to go. Pioneer or Panasonic, no difference in your situation. Once again the cable box is the potential source of problem (letterboxing).

Correct. The black bars (or grey in some cases) are generated by the cable box when using s-video or composite output. No DVD recorder can change this.

The only way not to record the black bars is to have a DVD recorder with component inputs. Or you can place a component to s-video converter device between the cable box and the dvd recorder. HD cable boxes do not letterbox content via component outputs.

Sounds like a recurring theme doesn't it? It's really very very simple.

The only way not to record the black bars is to have a DVD recorder with component inputs.

And the only player with that option is the Polaroid right now, correct? And going with that option, would the quality of the recordings be close to the panasonic and pioneer?

And the only player with that option is the Polaroid right now, correct? And going with that option, would the quality of the recordings be close to the panasonic and pioneer?

There are more that have component inputs. There is a thread that was started listing them. Unfortunately they are for the most part not current models. Sony, Magnavox, Philips. This feature seems to be going away as opposed to being introduced.

I own Pioneer (1), Toshiba(4), Samsung(1), Panasonic(1), Polaroid(2), Magnavox(3 now I think), Cyberhome(who cares). The Polaroid becuse of its LSI Domino chipset is as good or better than any of them as far as PQ. But it is a simple machine and is a kluge for anybody with a high def setup. It can do things that no other can.

There is not one machine that can do it all. My choice for the perfect setup is Polaroid/Toshiba. But this assumes you are struggling with the current state of high definition and appreciate the quality of recording HD at 480i. The quality is excellent.

There are more that have component inputs. There is a thread that was started listing them. Unfortunately they are for the most part not current models. Sony, Magnavox, Philips. This feature seems to be going away as opposed to being introduced.

I own Pioneer (1), Toshiba(4), Samsung(1), Panasonic(1), Polaroid(2), Magnavox(3 now I think), Cyberhome(who cares). The Polaroid becuse of its LSI Domino chipset is as good or better than any of them as far as PQ. But it is a simple machine and is a kluge for anybody with a high def setup. It can do things that no other can.

There is not one machine that can do it all. My choice for the perfect setup is Polaroid/Toshiba. But this assumes you are struggling with the current state of high definition and appreciate the quality of recording HD at 480i. The quality is excellent.

As a current HD DVD owner, I seriously doubt that HD recorders are going to come any time soon and be affordable so I'd like to get started with a new SD recorder right now.

I guess I'm back to the Polaroid. It would have component inputs (which means I could record 16x9 no matter what), i'm assuming it records 720x480, DVD-RAM and has quality comparable with the Panasonic, Toshiba and Pioneer?

It seems like the Panasonic/Pioneer/Toshiba are the "ones to beat" so I guess I'm using them as the benchmark. Am I correct?

As a current HD DVD owner, I seriously doubt that HD recorders are going to come any time soon and be affordable so I'd like to get started with a new SD recorder right now.

I guess I'm back to the Polaroid. It would have component inputs (which means I could record 16x9 no matter what), i'm assuming it records 720x480, DVD-RAM and has quality comparable with the Panasonic, Toshiba and Pioneer?

It seems like the Panasonic/Pioneer/Toshiba are the "ones to beat" so I guess I'm using them as the benchmark. Am I correct?

The three you mention as the ones to beat I would agree with. All three are excellent choices.

The Polaroid is also an excellent machine but does not offer the features of the three you mention. It is simple recorder that does what it does very well. I would not call it high end. For example no DVD-Ram. That being said, for me it would still be very difficult to replace.

A solution might be one of the big three you mention with a component to s-video converter to handle HD (at 480i) recording. This will offer the full wide screen recording that is elusive with recorders without component inputs.

These converterss can cost anywhere from thousands of dollars all the way down to a few hundred dollars. Or you might do what is suggested here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=761474

For me I chose the Polaroid to integrate into my entertainment system. I have it setup with an external removable hard drive which provides unlimited storage. An external DVD burner which is easily replaceable. It passes through a high def video signal when turned off. Has component inputs. Can convert component to s-video meaning it can convert a component signal and send it to another DVD recorder - full widescreen. And it provides excellent PQ when recording.

I'm shaking my head in disbelief that Polaroid makes DVRs. They've come a long ways from semi-instant picture photos.

I'm shaking my head in disbelief that Polaroid makes DVRs. They've come a long ways from semi-instant picture photos.

LOL. Funny. It's just a brand name now. I doubt if they make any of it. Like Westinghouse.

I'm shaking my head in disbelief that Polaroid makes DVRs. They've come a long ways from semi-instant picture photos.
I believe the only thing in common with the old Polaroid camera maker might be the brand name. I have a Polaroid HD-ready LCD TV. By all appearances, from the set, the manual, their web site, etc., this is a company that has purchased the rights to use the Polaroid name on devices they import from overseas OEM companies.

Just my observations and opinions, not based on facts.

I see. It makes sense, since Polaroid was a dying company from their original business, the "shake it, shake it like a Polaroid" song notwithstanding. My initial reaction would be the "new" Polaroid is not a higher tier brand like Pioneer and Panasonic, but a lower brand such as Sylvania, Emerson, etc. Again, this is not factual either; just my perception.

The three you mention as the ones to beat I would agree with. All three are excellent choices.

The Polaroid is also an excellent machine but does not offer the features of the three you mention. It is simple recorder that does what it does very well. I would not call it high end. For example no DVD-Ram. That being said, for me it would still be very difficult to replace.

A solution might be one of the big three you mention with a component to s-video converter to handle HD (at 480i) recording. This will offer the full wide screen recording that is elusive with recorders without component inputs.

These converterss can cost anywhere from thousands of dollars all the way down to a few hundred dollars. Or you might do what is suggested here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=761474

For me I chose the Polaroid to integrate into my entertainment system. I have it setup with an external removable hard drive which provides unlimited storage. An external DVD burner which is easily replaceable. It passes through a high def video signal when turned off. Has component inputs. Can convert component to s-video meaning it can convert a component signal and send it to another DVD recorder - full widescreen. And it provides excellent PQ when recording.

Well, if I got the Polaroid then I wouldn't need a converter because it would do the widescreen recording, correct?

And from the specs that I saw, it does handle DVD-RAM...or is that wrong?

I just want to make sure the recording quality is up to par with the others as well.

Then my next problem is trying to find one. :(

Well, if I got the Polaroid then I wouldn't need a converter because it would do the widescreen recording, correct?

And from the specs that I saw, it does handle DVD-RAM...or is that wrong?

I just want to make sure the recording quality is up to par with the others as well.

Then my next problem is trying to find one. :(

No converter necessary with the Polaroid for widescreen HD recording at 480i. It has component inputs. Which seems to be the requirement. Unless your source can do this over s-video (rare).

The specs you found are wrong. No DVD-Ram. It does do +-RW though. It records in +VR mode (Philips format).

Recording quality is very subjective. But there have been a lot of posts that have said the LSI Domino chipset does an excellent job. It does not have flex recording but it covers things pretty well with 1-2-2.5-3-4-6 hour recording modes (if I remember correctly).

PQ should not be a deal breaker. It is not as feature rich as the Pioneer/Panasonic/Toshiba recorders. And is priced accordingly. To some people this is the deal breaker.

Since I couldn't find a Polaroid, I went with the EH75. About $400 from amazon. Can't wait to test it out! :)

The Polaroid is also an excellent machine but does not offer the features of the three you mention. It is simple recorder that does what it does very well. I would not call it high end. For example no DVD-Ram. That being said, for me it would still be very difficult to replace.

Does the Polaroid have a chapter mark button on it's remote? This is a feature I have learned I can not live without on any future DVD recorder [unless no company offers this feature today/in the future].

Does the Polaroid have a chapter mark button on it's remote? This is a feature I have learned I can not live without on any future DVD recorder [unless no company offers this feature today/in the future].

Nope.

All you can do is set up chapter marks in advance with the auto chapter feature. The increments are 5-10-20-30 minutes. Or off. This works when recording to disc or the HDD. After recording you can go back and manually edit chapter marks on either the disc or the HDD.

This is my understanding. Perhaps "beekeeper" has figured out how to do set a chapter marks in real time.

rgazzara - will try that - thanks.

seems way to simple huh?