I've been considering purchasing an HDTV tuner for my G5. I went to check out the current price on EyeTV 500s at the Elgato web site and I noticed that it was no longer listed as a product. The Miglia TV Mini ATSC is the only HDTV option now listed. There are refubs of the EyeTV 500 available though (for $199). Browsing the web for the Miglia product shows some patchy availability (several big chains out of stock).

Does this portend a new HDTV product from Elgato? Or is the Mac HDTV market dwindling to a single manufacturer? Any comments from people in the know? Thanks.

Wow, I hope not. It's the best around, just need support for >3 of their own tuners. Dual tuner product on the way?

Reburbished units still for sale, but it's not on the regular list. Something new is definitely on the way. I sure hope it's firewire based.

http://elgato.com/index.php?file=shop_onlineshopus

I hadn't noticed it wasn't listed anymore, but new ones have been out of stock for awhile. I hope that means they're putting it in a stackable Mac Mini matching case instead of that thing that looked like something I'd build in the garage.

Does this portend a new HDTV product from Elgato?

I hope that means they're putting it in a stackable Mac Mini matching case

Since such a hybrid product--a Newertech miniStack hub with integrated DVR and EyeTV software is already out in Germany:

http://www.networx.de/satv/satv.html

seems just a matter of time before similar hybrids reach our shores. WWDC is just around the corner.

All credit goes to fellow forum user 'Further' for first finding this on German websites a month ago.

Still, refurb EyeTV 500 remains an exceptional deal for $199.

I'm only a casual observer here, so maybe I'm misunderstanding the situation. But at first glance looks like Elgato wants to focus on software. They link to this product from Miglia

http://www.miglia.com/products/video/tvminihd/index.html

It seems to have QAM tuner. So only difference between EyeTV 500 and Miglia is Firewire vs USB?

"So only difference between EyeTV 500 and Miglia is Firewire vs USB?"

I think Joseph S is the only person here who owns both units. You might want to check some of his back posts to see the comparison. Bus power is never going to be as reliable on USB versus FW; unfortunately the Miglia doesn't give you any other way to power their receiver.

EyeTV has dual inputs and is superior to Miglia in terms of bus bandwidth. I often see dropped frames with the usb2 Miglia that I don't see with three EyeTV 500s. The EyeTV is always on, the TVMini is only on when it's sent power and that can lead to other issues with signal drops, etc. Get the 500, it's a better deal and better hardware.

How is OTA HDTV reception sensitivity on these EyeTV units?

Is it comparable or better than those 5th generation LG tuner chips (Fusion 5 Lite)? How about compared to those VBox tuner cards?

I have an LG-3510. Not sure what tuner chip they use. Reception is at least the same on my EyeTV 500. I get the same channels on both and my EyeTV is 'downstream' from the LG. Everything is OTA.

Mike

I agree. EyeTV 500 reception is very similar to the fifth generation tuner in my LG 4200a. I'm not sure about VBox.

It is sad to see Elgato discontinue the 500. It's been a category defining product since its introduction. I have two of them and I may need to pick up another. Still, it would be great to know in advance what they're planning to replace it with.

I currently own an aTI HDTV Wonder (Windows system, obviously).

Anyone know how reception of other cards (EyeTV 500, FusionHDTV 5 lite, MyHD MDP-130, VBox) compare to my current "reference?"

I have both EyeTV 500 and a MyHD card. They seem very much the same as far as sensitivity.

I bought a refurbed EyeTV 500 for $199 and it works great. Very good deal and highly reccomend it.

Wonder if there is an EyeTV 550 on its way?

Is Fusion HDTV 5 Lite still the best for OTA reception sensitivity?

What about the Fusion vs. the VBox cards?

Does this portend a new HDTV product from Elgato? Or is the Mac HDTV market dwindling to a single manufacturer? Any comments from people in the know? Thanks.

I got an answer to my own question from Elgato tech support last week. It appears that followup hardware is in the works, but the timeframe is rather vague. I guess that means a refurb/used EyeTV 500 or the Miglia product.



Hi Christopher,

Thank you for contacting Elgato Systems.

I believe that the Miglia TVMini HD is the only Digital tuner available at the moment that is compatible with EyeTV. We are working out the details for our next digital model at this time. Unfortunately I cannot commit to a release date.

I do not know of any plans for Apple to get into the TV market. It is very complicated, probably too complicated for Apple to get involved in. From my perspective, I think they would rather sell you a television show through iTunes then allow you to record it on your computer.

Sincerely,
Ned Kettell
Customer Support

Elgato Systems LLC

900 Kearny Street Suite 750 San Francisco CA 94133-5145

I can. August 7, 2006. ;)
http://developer.apple.com/wwdc/

Good to see they're working on something new and thanks for the update.

We are working out the details for our next digital model at this time. Unfortunately I cannot commit to a release date.

Has no one followed the link to the German product, which is already out--an EyeTV inside a Newerstack hub? Joe's right, August 7th. Handwriting on the wall and all that.

I am mystified as to why EyeTV would let the 500 go OOP before they have the successor model ready for sale.

Any ideas?

Ted

Ted - bad timing?

Maybe they thought the new device was developing pretty fast, stopped production on the 500, and then got caught up in...something? I don't know much about the tuners inside the unit, but is there a delay in the 6th generation chips?

Or, maybe they thought the market for Mac users purchasing the EyeTV had been pretty well saturated.

Whatever it is, I can't imagine it was a choice to have a gap in their product line up. They are either working with someone that wants them to hold off (<tinfoil_hate>Apple?</tinfoil_hat>) or it was simply poor inventory management.

That's my guess. Maybe we'll see soon?

EDIT: I should note that I know nothing of logistics, so, while you are free to flame me for making stupid comments, know that it'd be kinda like picking on the kid trying to lick his elbow :-)

What makes you certain there will even BE a successor to the 500?

You can't trust little companies, they're flaky that way. Of course, you can't trust big companies in the "Mac" market, they're flaky too (especially Apple). Just my opinion, and definitely not intended to start a flame war.

El Gato just released a hybrid analog/digital device. USB key fob, $149. Not a parallel product, exactly, but I sure can't complain about the price..

Thank you @druber.

This update has been itching at me for the last month. I was so jealous of the European version and now not only do we have the same model but it does analog too. I didn't even need that last part added on :)

I just wish a release date was known. Pre-orders only.

While I'm not entirely sure about this, there is no mention of Clear QAM. I love getting HD channels over my cable line recorded on an EyeTV 500, and really wouldn't want to have to set up an antenna and pick up OTA instead. Anyone know if Clear QAM is supported?

I'm betting it isn't, since if you search their site for US based products that support clear QAM, you get an empty list. If you change the search to OTA ATSC, you get the new product.

The Product Comparison Chart (http://www.elgato.com/matrix/index.php) makes it clear that QAM is not supported. Also, there is no hardware encoder for the analog side. Software encoding only, meaning a much higher load on the Mac's CPU. That would probably mean that recording an SD show and playing back an HD show would be incompatible with a 1.66 GHz mini Core Duo.

From the FAQ page on the Elgato site regarding the Hybrid........

Can I record television with an EyeTV Hybrid?

Yes, the EyeTV Hybrid can be used to record from an analog or digital video source.

Analog:

Tuner (antenna or cable)
Composite (with included adapter cable)
S-Video (with included adapter cable)

Digital:

Tuner
only ATSC from antenna on North American models,
only DVB-T (DTT) from antenna on European/International models

EyeTV Hybrid features an analog NTSC or PAL TV tuner that lets you watch live TV directly on the Mac, in the uncompressed YUV format. The EyeTV software encodes this YUV into MPEG-2 or MPEG-1, and the speed and quality of that encoding is entirely dependent on the power of your Mac.

You have three quality options for analog inputs: VideoCD, Standard and High. Only a Dual G5 or Core Duo can record the highest quality of MPEG-2.

EyeTV Hybrid also has a digital tuner (ATSC or DVB-T), which does not encode. It receives pre-encoded MPEG video directly from broadcasters, via an antenna. That content is in either SDTV or HDTV format.

You can switch between Analog and Digital in the Devices Preferences.

EyeTV Hybrid only has one tuner, that can receive either analog or digital. It cannot receive both at the same time. You can only watch or record one video source at a time.

You can switch between Analog and Digital in the Devices Preferences.

EyeTV Hybrid only has one tuner, that can receive either analog or digital. It cannot receive both at the same time. You can only watch or record one video source at a time.

That makes it less interesting, but still a great value and form factor as an EyeTV 500 replacement device.

Dennis

Hopefully, the lack of QAM in the Hybrid is not a sign of things to come from Elgato. Not being forced to use an antenna is nice whether most cable content is locked down or not.

Now I'm really excited about the prospect of a Ministack/EyeTV combo... Come on Elgato!

still a great value and form factor as an EyeTV 500 replacement device

Well, considering refurb firewire EyeTV 500s with full warranty are still going for only $199, which means QAM and OTA at the same time, I'm not so sure of the hybrid's value Dennis. For a cable subscriber in the US with an HDTV really all this USB stick has going for it is form factor (and that it won't extend an existing firewire daisychain or hub.) Those planning to do OTA HD with this thing will also be gambling a bus-powered-only USB device can perform as well as an optionally-bus-powered firewire EyeTV device--and that's a gamble I wouldn't take.

So, since this isn't really an EyeTV 500 replacement as far as performance or value--what is it? Safe, small, no DRM or HDCP issues since it's analog or antenna in, calculated to appeal to a few groups of Mac users in the US: 1) non-cable subscribers still looking for a way to record OTA high def, 2) Luddites who don't mind staying stuck on analog--who still have VHS tapes to convert, who don't mind down rezzing and passing whatever content they are receiving over analog, etc--I bet it will be used mostly by Tivo, Dish and DirecTV owners who'll value an easy way to offload content onto their Macs via the composite/s-video breakout cable, and 3) someone fully invested in high def who already has one or more EyeTV 500s yet wants an affordable way to record those few odd things via standard analog cable, the stuff he can't get via QAM.

In the US, buying the 500 refurb or waiting still seems the smarter choice. Abroad, in Europe, Australia, et al, this device seems well-designed for El Gato to compete right now with the various other Miglia and Terratec devices.

The Product Comparison Chart (http://www.elgato.com/matrix/index.php) makes it clear that QAM is not supported. Also, there is no hardware encoder for the analog side. Software encoding only, meaning a much higher load on the Mac's CPU. That would probably mean that recording an SD show and playing back an HD show would be incompatible with a 1.66 GHz mini Core Duo.

A core Duo mini would likely be more than enough as the EyeTV 500 has no hardware encoding at all AFAIK, that is why it takes a powerful Mac from the get go. No QAM really sucks though, it made the 500 soooo much better it isn't even funny.

-Jerry C.

A core Duo mini would likely be more than enough as the EyeTV 500 has no hardware encoding at all

The reason is doesn't take a powerful CPU to record HD from an EyeTV 500 is that no processing is going on. The 500 strips out the signal you are looking for and passes the MPEG-2 file directly to your hard dirve.

I'm talking about decoding (playing back a previously recorded) HD show, which the Core Duo can do, but has to work hard, while simultaneously encoding an SD show, which is notoriously difficult for a CPU to do, as opposed to dedicated MPEG-2 encoding chips. Granted, you might not be doing that very often, but it hamstrings this device.

Unfortunately, the device's other leg gets hamstrung by the lack of QAM support, making it a non-starter for me. Oh well, I was excited this morning. Yeah, it's only $150. Get what you pay for.

The hybrid looks perfect to carry along with the Macbook or MacBook Pro in an RV.

The only USB powered tuner I've heard having problems with power overload was the Fusion HDTV Gold USB I had until lightning took it out. It did overload my Dell's USB power. I've not read of the vBox and Saseem USB tuners having a problem with this. Too bad the Fusion got fried before I had a chance to test it under BootCamp on the Macs.

The odds of me trying to record (encode) NTSC while trying to playback (decode) ATSC are zero, zilch, nada. The FCC could've shut down NTSC last January as far as I'm concerned. But given the state of conversion in little towns out in the boonies where RVs often wind up, it's nice to have NTSC for the time being.

If reception turns out to be good, it looks like a great product at a great price.

Miglia's TVMiniHD is reported to have bus power problems. It probably depends on the Mac and the situation. Mac Mini's aren't overly generous with USB power, for instance. I'm not sure about USB power with Macbooks or MBPs. My 17" PowerBook G4 supplies pretty good USB power, though I don't have a TVMiniHD to try.

I surely hope this new receiver is as reliable as my EyeTV 500s. I hope reception is good. Time will tell.

I admit to being quite dense (about a whole lot of things!)

If there is a remote, the position of the USB I/O jacks on the mini are behind (and under a shelf in my system), so wouldn't it be a bit difficult to use the remote?

Looking at the sales info at PowerMax:

Tired of remote controls scattered around the living room? So are we. EyeTV Hybrid works with an Apple Remote. It will certainly work with an EyeTV IR remote control as well.

So I still wonder if an EyeTV remote comes with, and if it'll work around the back of the unit.

I doubt that it comes with a remote at that price. It seems like their desire is to integrate their devices into Front Row and use the Apple remote.

Regarding the USB vs. Firewire thing, I don't think you should criticize too much until the product actually starts shipping. My EyeTV 500 can act a bit flaky with the Firewire port, especially when I use my iSight while recording with the EyeTV 500.

Dennis

iSight is certainly notorious for messing up Firewire. The only Firewire problem I ever had with my 500 was when I forgot to unplug it before an OS update. I unplugged all my external drives but somehow I forgot to remove the 500 which was first in the chain. It not only screwed up my OS update but it also prevented me from reinstalling 10.4.4 off the CD. Lesson learned.

I would be very surprised if this new receiver lacks a remote. Even the $90 Miglia TVMicro comes with a remote.

So tempted to get one of these now, but I'm hoping elgato is working on a FW800 dual tuner version.

So tempted to get one of these now, but I'm hoping elgato is working on a FW800 dual tuner version.
Is this hope based on any real information, or it is just pure wishful thinking?

Doesn't make any sense to pull a dual tuner for something so limited. They either need to bring back the 500 or come out with an updated product as good or better. The miglia product is garbage compared to the 500.

Joseph is, of course, referring to his Miglia TVMiniHD. I am fairly pleased with the Miglia TVMicro for the price. The fact that I saved $50 on upgrading to EyeTV 2 with my TVMicro purchase certainly didn't hurt either. As a practical matter I seldom use the analog receiver. My pair of 500's keep grinding up the airwaves!

I would rather see an EyeTV 500 replacement in a smaller footprint than this TV Hybrid, but I guess ElGato has market research which doesn't include myself or others in these Forums. I expect lack of a cable input is going to kill a lot of sales, or contribute to merchandise returns. We'll probably see refurbs hit the shelves within a few weeks of launch.

Is this hope based on any real information, or it is just pure wishful thinking?

Pure wishful thinking...I just want the mac to replace my dual tuner MCE PC system. I have yet to find something that works as well the MCE/hauppague dual tuner combo.

My main computer will soon be a mac pro at the end of september, so I just want all my machines to match more. I'd love it if they also added onboard encoding so that my old mac mini could take over the HTPC roll.

Then again, throw a cablecard in it and I'll take it with whatever features/price it comes with ;)

Right now I'm just planning on getting an external esata/firewire 800 HD that will be on the MCE HTPC to record and then switched to the mac pro to convert.

DaMaDo, your old Mac Mini should be able to handle recording everything with the new Combo tuner except analog TV at its highest setting. Digital ATSC reception will barely touch your Mini's CPU... perhaps 10% of the G4 cycles. 1080i ATSC playback is another matter. For that you'll need at least a CoreDuo Mini.

How much analog TV do you plan on recording? For most of us here, analog is little more than an afterthought.

Right now I have a PC with a dual tuner hauppauge recording shows on basic cable.

I guess I haven't done much digital because my understanding of PVRs without cablecard is that I can't record or watch any other channels except those on basic cable or ATSC...which I get the cable version on the HD box. I have a 61 inch samsung DLP that is connected to my rented HD cable box to watch discovery HD and the 10 other channels available in HD.

But I find most of my time watching just the history, discovery, and travel channel recordings which are just on basic cable.

The PVR is in my bedroom and I'd be interested in getting HD in there as well as changing the system to a mac. SageTV is great, but I like the size of the mini.

I am no expert on cable TV or CableCard, but I've read a number of opinions in these forums that suggest CableCard is unlikely to succeed. The options for capturing HD cable seem to be growing fewer and more proprietary, rather than more numerous and more open. Eventually someone will realize people don't like being boxed in. Until that happens there's ATSC and QAM.

Wow... right when I was going to jump off of the HTPC bandwagon, I find EyeTV... this is really cool, and now I am jazzed about using my MacBook Pro as a HTPC and eventually buying a dedicated MacMini or MacPro to do the dirty work. A FAR cry from the MythTV cunundrum!!! I spend two days on a mythdora and mythtv config... what a joke!

So time to buy hardware for the EyeTV...

I am concerned about the shift in hardware. The usb dongle change is odd. It seems the hardware is getting cheaper and smaller while the functionality claims are going higher. We all seem to be a little concerned that the hybrid will underperform against the 500. Is this based on real concerns or just psychological ones that a small usb dongle could never perform as well as a larger mac mini sized box?

Anyone have any data to support that the EyeTV Hybrid will underperform against the EyeTV 500? What are the implications of moving from firewire 400 interface to USB 2.0? Any hard data to suggest that the power bus on apple's usb 2.0 is less reliable than on the firewire?

I'm honestly asking these questions... not being snarky...

Looks like the next big cat to skin for these guys will be recording more than one stream at a time... and playing back HDTV at the same time. MythTV seems to claim to do it without 10 processors...

Will be watching this thread closely for any early reviews... they say the EyeTV Hybrid will ship in "early september"

The usb dongle change is odd. It seems the hardware is getting cheaper and smaller while the functionality claims are going higher. We all seem to be a little concerned that the hybrid will underperform against the 500. Is this based on real concerns or just psychological ones that a small usb dongle could never perform as well as a larger mac mini sized box?

Any Mac user who has significant audio/video experience with external firewire devices--versus comparably good USB devices--will tell you to go firewire if you can. It's not psychological--years of analytical tests have been done with audio, video and storage devices, it doesn't matter--firewire almost always comes significantly out on top--it's a function of the "bus" and how the communication standards themselves have been written --how information is sent back and forth, real world sustained speeds rather than quoting theoretical maximums and how much is lost to overhead.

Functionality claims are more diverse with this hybrid stick--the big thing here is you gain analog in through that breakout cable but you lose QAM and you lose the second input. That's a big step back in functionality in the US--since for many users QAM HD is much more reliable than OTA, and many users can't do OTA for any number of reasons even if they wanted to (interference, poor line of sight to the towers, rules against having any external antennas, etc.)

Anyone have any data to support that the EyeTV Hybrid will underperform against the EyeTV 500? What are the implications of moving from firewire 400 interface to USB 2.0? Any hard data to suggest that the power bus on apple's usb 2.0 is less reliable than on the firewire?

Every model Mac seems to have slightly different perfromance when it comes to bus-powered devices--there's a minimum power spec supposedly but at times I've noticed differences with a 2.5" usb external drive when swapping between, say, our 12" Powerbook and our 15"--though firewire bus power in my experience is rock solid on the Mac, USB bus power is not and at times you have to plug into 2 usb ports simultaneously to draw enough power for a single device.

However, I don't actually think unreliable bus power is going to be the concern here: it's going to be the added overhead associated with going USB, and its demands on the system, potentially causing skipped frames when watching live HDTV. Won't know the real world quality hit this device takes versus firewire until it ships of course, but other forum users like Joseph S who have compared the Miglia USB HD tuner mentioned above find it lacking.

The bigger issue for you may be what other devices you plan to have connected at the same time--daisychaining (see comment above about having an iSight plugged in, never a good idea and a very well-known issue) is where it can get complicated, it's why some users move toward a powered hub and others choose their devices and chipsets carefully.

For hard usb vs. firewire vs. sata data and analysis, it's best to peruse very good sites like Barefeats, MacFixIt and xlr8yourmac which specialize in collecting and analyzing that kind of thing. But within the home theater context, you already have all the advice you need here, from the folks who have actually been doing it.

Every model Mac seems to have slightly different perfromance when it comes to bus-powered devices--there's a minimum power spec supposedly but at times I've noticed differences with a 2.5" usb external drive when swapping between, say, our 12" Powerbook and our 15"--though firewire bus power in my experience is rock solid on the Mac, USB bus power is not and at times you have to plug into 2 usb ports simultaneously to draw enough power for a single device. I second the point about USB power lacking consistency. I have an inexpensive USB2 powered 2.5" HD enclosure that works great on my PowerBook and my old PowerTower Pro (Mac clone), but it doesn't draw enough power to spin up the drive or turn on the controller circuitry when it's attached to my Windows PC or our G4 Mini. I have to run one end of the Y-cable from another Mac to power the enclosure when it's attached to our G4 Mini. (I haven't tried it with our CoreDuo Mini.)

Will bus power be an issue for ElGato's new receiver... who knows? I'd let others do the first bleeding.

As a general recommendation, most of us here advise segregating high bandwidth devices to Firewire and lower bandwidth devices (such as IR receivers, flash cards or mice) to USB2. This avoids bottlenecks associated with mixing bandwidths on a single bus. On a PowerBook, MacBook or desktop Mac you could add a USB card if you wanted to put faster devices on one USB bus while keeping slower devices on the other. This is not an option for Mac Minis.

why are there two firewire I/Os on the back of the 500? Why are there two coax ins as well? Is it a dual tuner? Can you record one channel and watch another on the 500?

Sorry for the ignorance... thanks for all the great explanations. I'm leaning towawrd the refurb 500 before they're all gone.

The extra fw ports are for daisychaining other devices. The two coax allow both antenna and CATV/QAM input. The new unit doesn't do QAM and even if it did you couldn't do both. Some cable companies don't have all channels in your area. Some OTA channels aren't available without being nearby the station so QAM is the only option. Having both is best of both worlds. The new unit... isn't.

I have an EyeTV Hybrid on order to use with my MBP. I can't believe everyone on here complaining that USB 2 doesn't have enough bandwidth. Sure you won't get close to theoretical 480Mbit/sec, but seriously, the highest bitrate for HDTV you'll ever see is 19.8Mbit/sec. Plenty of room left for recording back out to a USB 2 HDD and using keyboard, mouse, and USB audio.
Non-HDTV (analog) may be a different story, since they are transferring uncompressed YUV video which I don't know the bitrate of offhand, but more than 20Mbit.

Is the EyeTV Hybrid actually available now or is it just a pre-order. I will be picking up a MBP this week or weekend and want to be able to catch some additional football coverage. Please let me know and also post your impressions when you have time as I know I am interested. Thanks

I recall reading availability starting next week in the US-- the European version of the hybrid is already available and shipping.

I can't believe everyone on here complaining that USB 2 doesn't have enough bandwidth. Sure you won't get close to theoretical 480Mbit/sec, but seriously, the highest bitrate for HDTV you'll ever see is 19.8Mbit/sec. Plenty of room left for recording back out to a USB 2 HDD and using keyboard, mouse, and USB audio. USB2 isn't a problem until you plug one of your old mice, keyboards or dongles into it. Then everything can slow to a crawl. You shouldn't have a bandwidth problem if you're careful what you plug into your USB ports, or if you add a second USB bus just for the slow stuff.

USB bus power is another matter.

Well, I've got one of these on the way for my PB G4 for dorm use. I actually am interested to see how it works with standard analogue cable.

Since it seems clear that the 500 is going away without an equivalent replacement I pulled the trigger on one of the referbs.

Now I have to figure out what to do with it :) I need an antenna that will work in Manhattan. I am under the impression that Time Warner cable in NYC does not have clear QAM, but information on that subject seems to be very lacking. Any tips appreciated.

I am under the impression that Time Warner cable in NYC does not have clear QAM, but information on that subject seems to be very lacking. Any tips appreciated.
You probably won't get too many answers here. Try asking in the NYC local TW forum.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=297592&page=1&pp=30

Just ordered my 6th EyeTV 500 with the max 3 allowed on each system. The lack of QAM is a deal killer for the new Hybrid. I sure hope they figure out that FW and QAM/OTA multituner devices are a perfect fit for everyone. OTA only is a ludicrous product decision given that most people's affiliates are at low power or no power still.

OTA only is a ludicrous product decision given that most people's affiliates are at low power or no power still.
Portland OTA is all high power. Which leads to a different problem: multipath.

But the same conclusion: OTA only is ludicrous product decision.

I have an EyeTV 500 that I use for OTA DTV. I'd like to get another EyeTV-compatible DTV tuner for another computer in another room. Since the 500 isn't available new any more, I'd like to know how the ATSC tuner sensitivity on the EyeTV Hybrid (a.k.a Hauppage WinTV-HVR-950) compares to the tuner sensitivity on the 500. Does anyone have both?

I have an EyeTV 500 that I use for OTA DTV. I'd like to get another EyeTV-compatible DTV tuner for another computer in another room. Since the 500 isn't available new any more, I'd like to know how the ATSC tuner sensitivity on the EyeTV Hybrid (a.k.a Hauppage WinTV-HVR-950) compares to the tuner sensitivity on the 500. Does anyone have both?

The tuner is very good, picked up all my digital channels. Even with the tiny antenna that came with the Haupage, I was able to pick up few channels.

I currently own an aTI HDTV Wonder (Windows system, obviously).

Anyone know how reception of other cards (EyeTV 500, FusionHDTV 5 lite, MyHD MDP-130, VBox) compare to my current "reference?"

I own both an ATI HDTV Wonder and an EyeTV 500. The EyeTV 500 has slightly better reception, and the EyeTV software is a hundred times better than the junk that comes with the HDTV Wonder. I actually thought I was having reception issues when I was using the HDTV Wonder until I hooked up the EyeTV 500 and found that playpack was silky-smooth on my dual 1.8GHz G5. Apparently ATI has known about studdering sound issues with the software for their product for some time, but have yet to fix it. I get a slightly higher signal detection strength on the EyeTV 500.

Needless to say, I've been using the EyeTV 500 and my Mac much more than my PC lately...