Its on my short-list. Just wondered if anyone had been able to compare to other CD players at it's price point?

What is its price point? (I don't often find it easy to learn the MSRP of products I read about, because manufacturers often don't specify this on their websites.)

MSRP is right around $1000, but street prices are a little less.

MSRP is right around $1000, but street prices are a little less.
I fold. That game is too rich for my blood. :)

I have the Rega Apollo. I feel it is a very, very good CDP. I think it sounds quite detailed, others feel it overemphasizes the top end. However, it is not bright - there is no harshness to it unless connected to bright or harsh speakers. The bass is controlled and tight rather than ponderous or heavy - there's definition and texture in the bottom end if not exactly the authority that many seem to require from a source component. This is where speakers, their placement and room treatments come in. Midrange performance is very natural sounding with good depth and imaging. It is easy to listen to for long periods and seems to bring out details that other players in the $1K range that I've listened to leave out.

There are a lot of good CD players in the $1K price range. The market is somewhat saturated with them at the moment, particularly the high-end Chinese models. Many of them share the same components under their cases. One can also find a decent CD transport and outboard DAC for $1K. The biggest concern I have when the price of a CD-only player exceeds $500-$600 is how long will the transport last? With a quality outboard DAC, the smaller investment in a basic CD player used as a digital transport is less of a risk. However, most "high-end" CD players are purchased as much for aesthetics and name brand loyalty as they are for their performance. There's nothing wrong with that, BTW.

If you're willing to spend $1K on a CD player, however, how much have you invested in the rest of your system? Including the most important part - your speakers?

For the most part, the new Apollo has been very well received. Rega had some problems with units from early production runs behaving strangely that was related to the way the circuit boards were soldered. They appear to have rectified that and my unit has been trouble-free. Rega created a new operating system for their new line of CD players, and the Apollo (along with the soon to be released Saturn) will take an average of 10 seconds to read each CD upon insertion for the purpose of optimizing the laser for each specific CD. In that way it is similar to a CD burner that analyzes blank media and optimizes its laser focus and power settings to produce the best possible burn. Rega also worked with Sanyo to create a new transport for the Apollo. I give them credit for trying to extract additional performance out of the aging Redbook format.

The soon-to-be available Rega Saturn is said to be significantly better than the Apollo, but at a list price expected around $2400-$2500, what else would they say?

The Cambridge Audio Azur C640 v2.0 is also a very nice CDP that utilizes the same Wolfson WM8740 DAC's that Rega has implemented in the Apollo. I gave a slight edge to the Apollo in a listening comparison, but could live happily with the Cambridge at a price that is about 45% below that of the Rega.

Get a SB2 or SB3 and have it modified by Bolder Cable company or Red Wine Audio or Aberdeen Component. The total cost will lower than $1000, and it will blow the Apollo away..:)

I bought an Eastsound CD-E5 from cattylink.com which is a nice very and heavy (literally) unit with a very good power supply, Phillips VAM1202 transport , Crystal 4390 DAC (used in several high end sources), and a decent output stage on the unbalanced (the balanced uses op amps). I upgraded the clock with a LCaudio X03, and put in a Zapfilter Mk II high performance output stage w/power supply, and hexfred diodes in the PSU.


Listened to it against my Denon 3910 and the Rega Apollo, and it trounced both. Superior soundstage, more extension, deeper bass, more attack and slam.

Total of $1100 invested. :)

Get a SB2 or SB3 and have it modified by Bolder Cable company or Red Wine Audio or Aberdeen Component. The total cost will lower than $1000, and it will blow the Apollo away..:)

Your point about the modified SB2/SB3 is a good one and well taken. The way we listen to and store our music is definitely changing.

There will always be some who prefer traditional set-ups over hard disc based storage and music servers. And some prefer the aesthetics of a well designed source component as part of a dedicated 2-channel arrangement. Just like speaker cables and interconnects as big as rope, they are likely here to stay.

BTW, I read your shootout comparison between the modified SB2 & SB3 with the three CD players (Cary, Ayre, and Rega). Since the Rega you had available for comparison was the Jupiter, I have to say unless you have heard the new Apollo in a revealing system, your comment that the SB2 or SB3 would "blow the Apollo away" is pretty strange. One Rega is not the same as the other. The Apollo sounds better than the Jupiter IMHO, and there are a few Apollo reviews that make the same conclusion. I can believe that the SB2 or SB3 in your system playing your preferred music type sounded clearly better to you than the three CD players you compared it to, but unless the Cary, Ayre or Rega were all level matched along with the SB2/SB3's before making the comparison, using the term "blown away" tends to strain one's credibility and create the impression that you are pushing Squeezeboxes. Just my $.02 ;)

I have not compared Apollo against the Squeezebox, but I had compared Apollo against Jupiter few months ago. I much prefers the sound of Jupiter in the setup I listened to. Furthermore, to my ear, I much prefers the sound of modified squeezebox to Jupiter, because I don't like edgy sound at high frequency. Ok, I accept the fact that with a difference setup, the sound of the Apollo/Jupiter can be different.

Let's face it, I am nobody and I have no credibility to start with, I just want to enjoy this hobby and I'm lucky to have found something that cost less and sound better. Why should I care if people refuse to give Squeezebox a listen and instead choose to spend multiple thousands on CDPs? I'm just trying to make people aware that you can achieve excellent sound with much less money than you thought, but if you already have too much money, of course you have every right to ditch the cheap looking squeezebox? :p

...I'm just trying to make people aware that you can achieve excellent sound with much less money than you thought...

Nothing wrong with that. :) Less money spent for hardware means more money for other things. Like CD's. :D

I have not compared Apollo against the Squeezebox, but I had compared Apollo against Jupiter few months ago. I much prefers the sound of Jupiter in the setup I listened to. Furthermore, to my ear, I much prefers the sound of modified squeezebox to Jupiter, because I don't like edgy sound at high frequency. Ok, I accept the fact that with a difference setup, the sound of the Apollo/Jupiter can be different.

Let's face it, I am nobody and I have no credibility to start with, I just want to enjoy this hobby and I'm lucky to have found something that cost less and sound better. Why should I care if people refuse to give Squeezebox a listen and instead choose to spend multiple thousands on CDPs? I'm just trying to make people aware that you can achieve excellent sound with much less money than you thought, but if you already have too much money, of course you have every right to ditch the cheap looking squeezebox? :p
I think that 99% of the sound of an audio system is the speakers, and that of the remaining 1% contributed by all of the electronics together, the CD player makes the least difference. If I had $10,000 to spend on a 2-channel system (this is strictly theoretical, it will never happen) I would be inclined to spend maybe $500-$1,000 total on the electronics and the rest on speakers.

What did you think about the Rega when you heard it?

Get a SB2 or SB3 and have it modified by Bolder Cable company or Red Wine Audio or Aberdeen Component. The total cost will lower than $1000, and it will blow the Apollo away..:)

Pulliamm: Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but as my rig has evolved over the years, I have come to appreciate the huge difference that electronics can make. An upgrade from a mid-line AVR to separates two years ago made as big an improvement in my system as did the speaker upgrade I'd made four years earlier. Each upgrade tends to throw the spotlight on a new weak-link elsewhere in my system. Right now, that weak link is my CDP (a Rotel RCD-02). It's a good player with many excellent qualities, but listening to other sources and other systems exposes this as the focus of my next upgrade.

FWIW, if you start with a good pair of speakers, upstream component changes will make more of difference than with speakers that have "character," i.e., they color the sound so most things sound similar, no matter what electronics are used upstream. My Vandy 1Cs & 2Wq subwoofer combo are surely not the last word in resolution, but they are neutral enough and resolving enough to enable me to appreciate every upgrade I've made since I bought them (the only exception was a separate amp, but it was receiving a very poor quality signal from my AVR - since I upgraded to a new Pre-Pro and subsequently a separate stereo pre-amp, I can easily hear significant differences in amplifiers).

Of course, YMMV!

I have to laugh when I hear a Rotel CDP described as a "weak link". Rotel electronics are much more high-end than I would ever buy. (The biggest upgrade I can envision myself doing would be to maybe Arcam or Cambridge Audio.)

Where can I find listings for "on the street" sellers for the Rega Apollo?

but listening to other sources and other systems exposes this as the focus of my next upgrade.

I'm not sure how you conclude on the cd player when you used other sysytems as you put it.

Originally Posted by PULLIAMM

I think that 99% of the sound of an audio system is the speakers, and that of the remaining 1% contributed by all of the electronics together...

PULLIAMM, perhaps you have not been exposed to the Ivor Tiefunbrun (Linn) doctrine.

"...conventional wisdom in the hi-fi community dictated that the loudspeaker was the most important part of a hi-fi system. Linn championed a source-first doctrine, claiming that whilst a system was only as good as its weakest link, the most important part of any system was the source - information which was lost at the outset was gone for good."

Ivor changed the industry back in 1972 with this idea.

PULLIAMM, perhaps you have not been exposed to the Ivor Tiefunbrun (Linn) doctrine.

"...conventional wisdom in the hi-fi community dictated that the loudspeaker was the most important part of a hi-fi system. Linn championed a source-first doctrine, claiming that whilst a system was only as good as its weakest link, the most important part of any system was the source - information which was lost at the outset was gone for good."

Ivor changed the industry back in 1972 with this idea.


Yeah that's the guy who couldn't reliably pick his own CD player[Linn] in a blind test.

Originally Posted by thehun

Yeah that's the guy who couldn't reliably pick his own CD player[Linn] in a blind test.
Certainly possible... I haven't read or seen that review. His position was based on information coming from vinyl records where the Linn turntable and his ideas made a serious impact on the HiFi world. Linn was also late to enter digital audio.

I would agree that it's difficult to hear differences in CD players. There are probably more differences in the recording /production values of the recordings CD to CD. But that doesn't mean there aren't differences and I think Tiefunbrun's idea is true today; no matter how good the speakers are, if you can't get the information to them you will not hear it.

The funny part is, a good vinyl system still sounds better. HDCD has failed, people think CD quality is good enough. As a mater of fact, MP3 seems to be todays standard. We seem to have gone backward in quality for the convenience of compressed digital.

Certainly possible... I haven't read or seen that review. His position was based on information coming from vinyl records where the Linn turntable and his ideas made a serious impact on the HiFi world. Linn was also late to enter digital audio.

I would agree that it's difficult to hear differences in CD players. There are probably more differences in the recording /production values of the recordings CD to CD. But that doesn't mean there aren't differences and I think Tiefunbrun's idea is true today; no matter how good the speakers are, if you can't get the information to them you will not hear it.

The funny part is, a good vinyl system still sounds better. HDCD has failed, people think CD quality is good enough. As a mater of fact, MP3 seems to be todays standard. We seem to have gone backward in quality for the convenience of compressed digital.

Well it was his 20k player against some mass produced CD player.
Vinyl doesn't sound "better". It does sound different, which is better? well each of the listeners will decide, but it is remain an opinion, not a a fact.
I don't deny that electronics could have influence on the sound, but they don't produce sound, only speakers do, so their contribution is by far most relevant. They're also the weakest link as well, because partially of the enviroment[room] they're being placed, makes then "unpredictible".That doesn't apply to electronics, they will "sound" the same way in any room , furnished, carpeted, hardwood etc... try that with speakers.
Digital technology is far more advanced then speaker building, which relys on old priciples and methods, that haven't changed much in decades.Just look at fr response of any decent amp or cd player, and then look at any speaker's. Not even close.
Thiefenbrun didn't change anything, there are plenty people like him who thought he had figured it out, but he's just another voice in this crowded opinion driven field, called audio.

Yikes! Well hun to each his own...

PULLIAMM, perhaps you have not been exposed to the Ivor Tiefunbrun (Linn) doctrine.

"...conventional wisdom in the hi-fi community dictated that the loudspeaker was the most important part of a hi-fi system. Linn championed a source-first doctrine, claiming that whilst a system was only as good as its weakest link, the most important part of any system was the source - information which was lost at the outset was gone for good."

Ivor changed the industry back in 1972 with this idea.
This doctrine made a lot more sense back in the analog era. Turntables are highly responsive to subtle design tweaks (rather like speakers.) Digital media are more "robust". Their playback is pretty much either correct or not, and most players do get it correct.

A friend and I went out recently and auditioned various integrated amps. I choose to use the Rega Apollo as the cd player. After it was all said and done, I decided to listen to the same cd's we used with an Arcam CD73T cd player. I looked at my friend and told him I couldn't tell the difference. I didn't find out till later that the Arcam used the same DAC's as the Apollo.

thehun: Sorry for the confusion. When I say other systems, I am referring to rigs I've heard that are in the same range as my own. I know there are a million variables, but my point is that I could hear differences between various CDPs and other gear when switched around (and please, no lectures about blind tests, volume matching, etc... I am aware of these variables). I don't have "golden ears," but I know what I like, and my current system gives me sound I enjoy, but less so through the Rotel CDP than other sources. Just a we bit too much glare and edge for me. Of course, YMMV.

This Spring, I hope to try a number of CDPs and DACs in the under $1K range, and see what happens. FWIW, I could not hear any improvement when I used a Jolida 100A CDP. Since then, however, I have upgraded to a separate preamp (C-J PV11), which is much more resolving and dynamic than my pre-pro. I'll post a new thread after I decide what to do.

thehun: Sorry for the confusion. When I say other systems, I am referring to rigs I've heard that are in the same range as my own. I know there are a million variables, but my point is that I could hear differences between various CDPs and other gear when switched around (and please, no lectures about blind tests, volume matching, etc... I am aware of these variables). I don't have "golden ears," but I know what I like, and my current system gives me sound I enjoy, but less so through the Rotel CDP than other sources. Just a we bit too much glare and edge for me. Of course, YMMV.

This Spring, I hope to try a number of CDPs and DACs in the under $1K range, and see what happens. FWIW, I could not hear any improvement when I used a Jolida 100A CDP. Since then, however, I have upgraded to a separate preamp (C-J PV11), which is much more resolving and dynamic than my pre-pro. I'll post a new thread after I decide what to do.

Well sure one could percieve any kind of differences espcially with the same system, but when you compare various parts of two or more systems then, I'm not sure what's the point.As you pointed it out there are just too many variables, to draw any kind of meaningful cocnclusions.

Well I have the Apollo, Rotel AV Seps and a NICE pair of speckers Vienna Acoustics Mozart and a Rel Sub - strata III ... and I can not tell the BIG difference between the Apollo and a $150 Panasonic DVD player. I'm sure, somewhere in the sonic detail, the Apollo sounds better 'cause it cause about $800 bucks more. I mean I am really trying to hear the big difference. I do heard a difference between the players on some recordings and other sound about the same. I have not purchased the Rega Apollo, just doing the demo thing for now, please tell me I have a defective unit or that after the age of 40 the hearing drops off, or I just plain don't how to listen to music.
...cause I really want to believe.

Well I have the Apollo, Rotel AV Seps and a NICE pair of speckers Vienna Acoustics Mozart and a Rel Sub - strata III ... and I can not tell the BIG difference between the Apollo and a $150 Panasonic DVD player. I'm sure, somewhere in the sonic detail, the Apollo sounds better 'cause it cause about $800 bucks more. I mean I am really trying to hear the big difference. I do heard a difference between the players on some recordings and other sound about the same. I have not purchased the Rega Apollo, just doing the demo thing for now, please tell me I have a defective unit or that after the age of 40 the hearing drops off, or I just plain don't how to listen to music.
...cause I really want to believe.

How do you connect the CDPs to the preamp? Digital or analog?

I have it connected as an analog device running in two-channel mode.

Then i guess you can save some money by selling the Apollo and maybe buy some room treatments.

Also why don't you try connecting the Panasonic cdp to the preamp using digital connection and compare the DAC is the preamp vs the DAC in the Panasonic, see if there is improvement in sound quality.

what Hi FI five star rated. Top loaded ,so make sure you have room to load cd's.

thehun: I apologize again. I am not making myself clear. What I mean is that as long as there are other systems that I can hear and can afford that sound better to me than my own, I am going to want to upgrade my system. Naturally, the first thing to do is to identify a weak link that I can afford to fix. While my room isn't perfect, I can't afford to fix it, so for now, it's the CD player. Hope I finally explained what I mean.

Yeah that's the guy who couldn't reliably pick his own CD player[Linn] in a blind test.

LOL. Linn makes turntables. Of course they would push "source first". Audiophilia is an amazing case study in marketing.

A friend and I went out recently and auditioned various integrated amps. I choose to use the Rega Apollo as the cd player. After it was all said and done, I decided to listen to the same cd's we used with an Arcam CD73T cd player. I looked at my friend and told him I couldn't tell the difference. I didn't find out till later that the Arcam used the same DAC's as the Apollo.

Which are the same DAC's (Wolfson) as used by Onkyo (found in Circuit City, etc...) :eek:

LOL!

thehun: I apologize again. I am not making myself clear. What I mean is that as long as there are other systems that I can hear and can afford that sound better to me than my own, I am going to want to upgrade my system. Naturally, the first thing to do is to identify a weak link that I can afford to fix. While my room isn't perfect, I can't afford to fix it, so for now, it's the CD player. Hope I finally explained what I mean.

Gottcha. and no need to apologize it's all good. :)

LOL. Linn makes turntables.

among other things.




http://www.knekt.com/spec_sound/source.cfm

among other things.




http://www.knekt.com/spec_sound/source.cfm

At the time of their "source first" marketing, they made turntables. If I made turntables in 1975, I'd also push the benefits of source over electronics or speakers.