This out of stock news is not making me feel too optomistic about my scheduled Oct. 14th install date...
Ya, I'm set for the 15th - original date was 9/30 and I was told they were out of stock. Just have to wait and see. On a positive note I got my D* bill and lo and behold all the credits were shown exactly as I discussed with retention :eek: . Retention dept kicks ass (most of the time)!

Finally got around to calling. Retention was fine. I was willing to spend 99 on it to replace my Ultimate tv unit, but no more. She said the 99 dollar charge was for people replacing their hr10's. I just said 199 she offered was more than I was willing to spend. She said I was on their A list and that she would knock 10 dollars off my bill every month...so, in the end, my total out of pocket for the year for this receiver will be around even since the direct drv is 4 dollars a month less than ultimate tv...
second time I've dealt with direct tv in a row where they have been right on the ball and actually provided great customer service....kinda wierd.

now I just wonder if the install on the 27th will actually come through :-)

now I just wonder if the install on the 27th will actually come through :-)
Ironwood should be your installer [as mine] & I'm "set" for wed. so I'll let you know. Most of the "out of stock" posts seem to come from other areas, so this may be the only [good] reason to deal with Ironwood Communications [as I have posted before]. I requested a supervisor to do the work.

I ordered on 9/8..
Just got installed today.

now, I just need OTA activated so I can actually get local channels...because they won't "allow" me to subscribe to them...

I ordered on 9/8..
Just got installed today.

now, I just need OTA activated so I can actually get local channels...because they won't "allow" me to subscribe to them...

D*'s website says "by the end of the year"

Ironwood should be your installer [as mine] & I'm "set" for wed. so I'll let you know. Most of the "out of stock" posts seem to come from other areas, so this may be the only [good] reason to deal with Ironwood Communications [as I have posted before]. I requested a supervisor to do the work.

Yes, they are. On my AT9/H20 install I took a day off work, friday the week before christmas. About an hour before they were going to show up, Direct tv called me and said the installer was 'injured' on the previous install, and they would have to reschedule.

*right!...like I believe that*

Anyway, they said they would come out any day the next week, fortunately I was taking a few days off as well so I cut them some slack.

They did show up the second time, the installer was absolutely no problem and everything went fine. When done, I looked up an address for him. They had given him the second install at some house near Lake Tahoe, which was about 4 hours away. He jokingly said "I don't think I'll make that one"...

so clearly someone else got a "the installer was injured" call later that day.



I'm hoping since I already have the 2 lines to the Ultimate tv box it's replacing it won't take more than a couple minutes...assuming they have the Hr20 and the one I get actually works.

ready for problems, hoping for perfection.

I came home last night to a voice mail from the installation department saying I needed to reschedule my installation on the 11th. Installer is out of stock. I'm scheduled fore the 24th now. We'll see if that date holds up or not.

I was originally scheduled for install this past friday the 6th. Today when I called to reschedule they told me DirecTV is telling them it will be 3 weeks until they can ship them more. They would not make me an appointment until Nov 11th. The installer is Ironwood. I'm in Suburban Philly.

I was originally scheduled for install this past friday the 6th. Today when I called to reschedule they told me DirecTV is telling them it will be 3 weeks until they can ship them more. They would not make me an appointment until Nov 11th. The installer is Ironwood. I'm in Suburban Philly.
This doesn't sound good [for me] for my wed. appointment which Ironwood has just "reconfirmed". I still hope it's a regionally [stock] problem.

I'm hoping since I already have the 2 lines to the Ultimate tv box it's replacing it won't take more than a couple minutes...assuming they have the Hr20 and the one I get actually works.

ready for problems, hoping for perfection.
It sounds like you could "do the end run" & get a HR20 @ best buy [or anybody] and then swap out your boxes [without Ironwood]. D* will credit your account for the cost. If the box was any trouble.. back to BB & have them exchange it. I did this with my Sony [with C City]. It's just 50 miles one way [for me] & I need a multi switch [this time].

keep in mind you need a specific multiswitch for the hr20 (the name is slipping me though) the installer should have it, but it needs to be on the work order.

keep in mind you need a specific multiswitch for the hr20 (the name is slipping me though) the installer should have it, but it needs to be on the work order.
Thanks, I noted the need for it [when I ordered] to D* & then again to Ironwood, but it's anybodies guess what will be on the truck when they come....

Is it normal behavior when creating a series link, to only have one episode show up immediately in the ToDo list, and the rest appear later, or will they never appear? I created a series link, and the todo list showed Episodes (10) but only put the R)) on the first one. Just curious before it fails to record...

So I got my new hr 20 700 on Friday and set it to record Saturday nights Rangers game on Center Ice. I foolishly assumed that keep until full would keep it til I got home on Monday night so I could watch it. Apparently a disk which is 98% empty is considered too full to keep a recording. It erased it.

It is faster than the old HD Tivo at a lot of fundtions, and as I have trouble getting locals in HD OTA, it is a step up, but really???

Is it normal behavior when creating a series link, to only have one episode show up immediately in the ToDo list, and the rest appear later, or will they never appear? I created a series link, and the todo list showed Episodes (10) but only put the R)) on the first one. Just curious before it fails to record...

That's normal.

So is the idea of modding this to add more capacity on a leased unit completely out of the question?

I've had the unit less than a week and I'm under 70% free space.

Also, when you reset the unit, it loses its guide info. I had to do that to add the second tuner line, taking one away from my DTivo.

Is it normal behavior when creating a series link, to only have one episode show up immediately in the ToDo list, and the rest appear later, or will they never appear? I created a series link, and the todo list showed Episodes (10) but only put the R)) on the first one. Just curious before it fails to record...

That's been my experience. I'm guessing that since the guide only goes out two weeks, it can't add all the episodes since it doesn't know when they will occur.

So is the idea of modding this to add more capacity on a leased unit completely out of the question?

I've had the unit less than a week and I'm under 70% free space.

Also, when you reset the unit, it loses its guide info. I had to do that to add the second tuner line, taking one away from my DTivo.

I wouldn't fool with the internal drive. If you want to use larger eSATA drives here is the definitive forum and "how to".

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=66201

Yes pushing the red button indicates to the unit that all memory needs to be purged, and apparently the guide data is in that block of memory.

So is the idea of modding this to add more capacity on a leased unit completely out of the question?

I've had the unit less than a week and I'm under 70% free space.

Also, when you reset the unit, it loses its guide info. I had to do that to add the second tuner line, taking one away from my DTivo.

A previous post in this thread talked about using an external SATA drive to increase your storage space. Since the SATA port is built-in, I'm not really sure that would qualify as "modding". See post 709 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8578017&&#post8578017) for more detail.

Thanks for the link. Gonna have to register at dbstalk one of these days.

One thing I realized from the thread is that MPEG4 file sizes may be a less than MPEG2 file sizes, assuming both are of HDTV channels.

I haven't got an AT9 dish so I wonder if my recordings are bigger than they would be if I had the MPEG4 channels.

Thanks for the link. Gonna have to register at dbstalk one of these days.

One thing I realized from the thread is that MPEG4 file sizes may be a less than MPEG2 file sizes, assuming both are of HDTV channels.

I haven't got an AT9 dish so I wonder if my recordings are bigger than they would be if I had the MPEG4 channels.

Yes. The size of the file required for an MPEG2 HD program is 75% of an MPEG4 HD program.

Check this post out for more specific info...

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=682046&postcount=240

Damn, then they have to hurry up and come out with a smaller 5-LNB dish which can be wall-mounted.

I guess if they enable OTA, people would have the same issues.

So is the picture quality of MPEG4 as good as presumably half the bit rate as MPEG2?

Damn, then they have to hurry up and come out with a smaller 5-LNB dish which can be wall-mounted.

I guess if they enable OTA, people would have the same issues.

So is the picture quality of MPEG4 as good as presumably half the bit rate as MPEG2?

er, my AT9 is wall mounted.


The mpeg4 channels have some pixelation issues on the side borders, but nothing I'm going to complain about at this point.

"keep in mind you need a specific multiswitch for the hr20 (the name is slipping me though) the installer should have it, but it needs to be on the work order."

Different than what is currently providing 4 lines from an AT-9??????

Did you install it or did Ironwood, Direct TV's subcontractor out in the BAy Area, install it?

First Ironwood guy said it was too heavy for a stucco wall and would rip out parts of the wall.

Second Ironwood guy said it could be done but by that time, I'd asked them to just give me the DVR.

So the trick is getting the right installer to come out I guess.

Did you install it or did Ironwood, Direct TV's subcontractor out in the BAy Area, install it?

First Ironwood guy said it was too heavy for a stucco wall and would rip out parts of the wall.

Second Ironwood guy said it could be done but by that time, I'd asked them to just give me the DVR.

So the trick is getting the right installer to come out I guess.

Ironwood did it. The footprint of the mast is only slightly bigger, and the mast has 2 small stabilizing braces that also mount to the wall.

I havent heard of any consumer sighting it. I sighted my old 3 lnb dish many times, but saw the instructional video on the new AT9 and didn't want any part of it. Installer did a fine job. I did prepare the area a bit beforehand so it would be sturdy enough, and it's not stucco.

I would not mount any dish to stucco myself, AT9 or previous models. At my last place I just lag bolted a round piece of wood to the wall then painted it, made a great mounting location. Mounted like that I wouldn't worry about the new one coming out at all.

er, my AT9 is wall mounted.


The mpeg4 channels have some pixelation issues on the side borders, but nothing I'm going to complain about at this point.

"keep in mind you need a specific multiswitch for the hr20 (the name is slipping me though) the installer should have it, but it needs to be on the work order."

Different than what is currently providing 4 lines from an AT-9??????

Some people need more than four lines. Two dvrs and one receiver=five lines. The multiswitch is a Zinwell 6x8.

I havent heard of any consumer sighting it. I sighted my old 3 lnb dish many times, but saw the instructional video on the new AT9 and didn't want any part of it. Installer did a fine job. I did prepare the area a bit beforehand so it would be sturdy enough, and it's not stucco. I would not mount any dish to stucco myself, AT9 or previous models.
Lag bolting to a wall stud is must [& hard to find with a stucco wall].
Somewhere [earlier] in the posts is a description of an Installer not using a power meter to align the dish [horror]. From the post, he used [on the TV] the transponder "power strength" to do it. I've seen D* video [also] & if I had to, would do it by starting with the A, B, or C sat [for rough adjusting] & then use [the new fine adjusters] 99 or 103 sat for the final adjusting of the AT9 dish.

Hmm, too bad they can't use the same bolts being used for my triple LNB. It's been pretty solid with first the circular and now the oval dish and there's been some very windy days (gusts close to 100 MPH sometimes) in the South Bay Area.

I guess I could play Ironwood installer roulette.

Hmm, too bad they can't use the same bolts being used for my triple LNB. It's been pretty solid with first the circular and now the oval dish and there's been some very windy days (gusts close to 100 MPH sometimes) in the South Bay Area.
I guess I could play Ironwood installer roulette.
The AT9 dish is heavier & the mounting plate is bigger [holes won't line up with older] AND the dish is bigger [bigger sail to the wind]. I haven't had any problem with Ironwood [ha ha] when I ask [& get] a supervisor [installer].

So is the idea of modding this to add more capacity on a leased unit completely out of the question?

I've had the unit less than a week and I'm under 70% free space.

Also, when you reset the unit, it loses its guide info. I had to do that to add the second tuner line, taking one away from my DTivo.

No need to mod anything, just unplug the unit, and plug in a monster eSATA drive, and plug the unit back in. It will format the external drive and use it (bypassing the internal drive). This was enabled in the last software update. To return to the internal drive, unplug the unit, unplug eSATA, plug unit back in.

Ive seen a couple 1 TB drive enclosures with dual 500GB drives in a RAID configuration which should work for a reasonable price.

Long time lurker, first time posting. Just had a HR20 installed ~ 2 weeks ago, just waiting for OTA functionality. Now that the introduction is over....

The AT9 dish is heavier & the mounting plate is bigger [holes won't line up with older] AND the dish is bigger [bigger sail to the wind]. I haven't had any problem with Ironwood [ha ha] when I ask [& get] a supervisor [installer].

I currently have my 3 lnb bolted to the A frame of the shed. The installer said the AT9 is to big to mount there. I told him that it's bolted into the wood frame, but he said the wind will take the dish, wood, and siding off. Was I had?

Long time lurker, first time posting. Just had a HR20 installed ~ 2 weeks ago, just waiting for OTA functionality. Now that the introduction is over....



I currently have my 3 lnb bolted to the A frame of the shed. The installer said the AT9 is to big to mount there. I told him that it's bolted into the wood frame, but he said the wind will take the dish, wood, and siding off. Was I had?

The wind MIGHT take the dish, wood, and siding off. He informed you correctly. The package is heavy and the additional wind stress significant enough to warrant the additional precaution.

I currently have my 3 lnb bolted to the A frame of the shed. The installer said the AT9 is to big to mount there. I told him that it's bolted into the wood frame, but he said the wind will take the dish, wood, and siding off. Was I had?
Since none of us can evaluate your mounting, the "end user" must use his/her good common sense before "trusting in" recommendations posted here. While I've had no problem using the same mount as my 3LNB dish, the mount is significant [schedule 40 steel pipe] & mounting to the framing of your house would work as well.
"Shed" suggests something that may not be built to the same "local code" as a home.

New software update last night- 00DC

Still no OTA however,go to dbstalk.com then HR20 Thread for release notes and discussion.

Updates have been coming weekly every Tuesday night.

Since none of us can evaluate your mounting, the "end user" must use his/her good common sense before "trusting in" recommendations posted here. While I've had no problem using the same mount as my 3LNB dish, the mount is significant [schedule 40 steel pipe] & mounting to the framing of your house would work as well.
"Shed" suggests something that may not be built to the same "local code" as a home.

It's a townhouse with the shed built onto the back (it is part of the house). I have seen several AT9s mounted on seperate sheds, as well as a few on the roofs of detached homes in different neighborhoods. I just wanted to make sure the installer wasn't trying to score some extra time off on a Friday afternoon.

I'm still thinking of trying to get it installed. The dish would only be 8-10 feet off the ground in the back and as I said before it's mounted to the framing. There isn't alot of wind back there even on windy days, just during major storms (noreasterns, hurricanes). I don't have the option to mount it on a pole from the ground because the only part of the backyard that isn't cemented in is to close to the back fence.

It's a townhouse with the shed built onto the back (it is part of the house). I have seen several AT9s mounted on seperate sheds, as well as a few on the roofs of detached homes in different neighborhoods. I just wanted to make sure the installer wasn't trying to score some extra time off on a Friday afternoon.

I'm still thinking of trying to get it installed. The dish would only be 8-10 feet off the ground in the back and as I said before it's mounted to the framing. There isn't alot of wind back there even on windy days, just during major storms (noreasterns, hurricanes). I don't have the option to mount it on a pole from the ground because the only part of the backyard that isn't cemented in is to close to the back fence.
I can't give you "common sense". I can comment on what seems to be [in only my opinion] an over reaction as to the AT9 mounting requirements. Installers aren't always "the brightest light bulb" & should "error" on the side of caution [if they have a working brain] which I wouldn't fault them for one bit. You as the "end user" must take responsibility for any mounting decisions. With all of this "legalise" stated. Please don't blame me [or any others on this forum] for what we give as "help". If in your opinion, your shed is built to the same standards as your home [2x4 framing] & you can attach the AT9 dish into the framing with lag bolts I would. Nature's forces can easily over come man's best efforts... so there is always risk in your actions.

Finally had the HR20 and 5 LNB installed on Monday. Jacksonville is supposed to get LIL by the end of the year.

FWIW, here are my impressions:

http://www.epinions.com/content_264281886340

New software update last night- 00DC

Still no OTA however,go to dbstalk.com then HR20 Thread for release notes and discussion.

Updates have been coming weekly every Tuesday night.
--------------
Fixes
Video playback freezing/black screen
Loss of trick play in a currently recording program. When this occured, the program recording would corrupt and would be unplaybe.
Canceled programs rescheduling. (Due to higher priority shows being canceled in conflict resolution dialogs, the background process would reschedule the higher priority show)
Find By Channel, would return results on "hidden" channels. This is NOT related to Favorites or Channels you receive.
Recording the same show, on channels with the same channel number, would result in a corrupted recording. (Example: Trying to record the show from the HD Local and the SD Local at the same time)
Adding extensions to a recording, via UPDATE... would not trigger conflicts.
Caller ID - "Call your service provider", should no longer appear if you are a Caller-Id subscriber.

--------------
Fixes
Video playback freezing/black screen
Loss of trick play in a currently recording program. When this occured, the program recording would corrupt and would be unplaybe.
Canceled programs rescheduling. (Due to higher priority shows being canceled in conflict resolution dialogs, the background process would reschedule the higher priority show)
Find By Channel, would return results on "hidden" channels. This is NOT related to Favorites or Channels you receive.
Recording the same show, on channels with the same channel number, would result in a corrupted recording. (Example: Trying to record the show from the HD Local and the SD Local at the same time)
Adding extensions to a recording, via UPDATE... would not trigger conflicts.
Caller ID - "Call your service provider", should no longer appear if you are a Caller-Id subscriber.

Good Stuff.

Is there any chance they fixed the problem with setting up manual recurring recording events?

Finally had the HR20 and 5 LNB installed on Monday. Jacksonville is supposed to get LIL by the end of the year.

FWIW, here are my impressions:

http://www.epinions.com/content_264281886340

The program guide is quick, but changing channels has an odd delay to it. It takes a full 2-3 seconds between changes.

Sounds like you could fix that by turning "native" off. Mine changes channels faster than the tivo.

now I just wonder if the install on the 27th will actually come through
As "we" thought, I just got the call from Ironwood about this afternoon's installation........ NO HR-20 IN STOCK!! Nov. 6th is my next appointment for the install.
Don't believe a word IRONWOOD says!!
While they called me this morning about being out of stock for the HR-20, they confirmed my 1-5 appointment this afternoon for installation of my H20 [which was ON THE TRUCK], THEN called D* & rescheduled it for Oct 19th, leaving me here all afternoon waiting for them. Lying sacks of SH**!!

Sounds like you could fix that by turning "native" off. Mine changes channels faster than the tivo.

That helped. Thanks for the tip!

You as the "end user" must take responsibility for any mounting decisions. With all of this "legalise" stated. Please don't blame me [or any others on this forum] for what we give as "help"....

I understand all the risks, and I'm not that afraid of taking responsibility for the consequences.

I do understand and do not discredit the installers for sticking to caution, I would probably do the same thing. I just wanted to get some opinions from others that are not liable for any damage I might cause (in other words, don't really care what I do).

Now, am I able to buy the satellite online or BB/ CC? I'm wondering if D* will send one out since the installer refused to leave it behind (?).

Now, am I able to buy the satellite online or BB/ CC? I'm wondering if D* will send one out since the installer refused to leave it behind (?).
Call D* and have them reschedule an installation. My installer didn't want to install mine & I just told him to do it. Your next installer just might do it [without "instructing him to"].The luck of the "draw" with installers. I believe they actually want to help you.

--------------
Fixes
Video playback freezing/black screen
Loss of trick play in a currently recording program. When this occured, the program recording would corrupt and would be unplaybe.
Canceled programs rescheduling. (Due to higher priority shows being canceled in conflict resolution dialogs, the background process would reschedule the higher priority show)
Find By Channel, would return results on "hidden" channels. This is NOT related to Favorites or Channels you receive.
Recording the same show, on channels with the same channel number, would result in a corrupted recording. (Example: Trying to record the show from the HD Local and the SD Local at the same time)
Adding extensions to a recording, via UPDATE... would not trigger conflicts.
Caller ID - "Call your service provider", should no longer appear if you are a Caller-Id subscriber.

Unfortunately, no fix for HDMI sync'ing issues it appears. I still have problems with powering up my LCD panel on the HDMI input regardless of the "power-on" or "power-off" state of the HR20.

Unfortunately, no fix for HDMI sync'ing issues it appears. I still have problems with powering up my LCD panel on the HDMI input regardless of the "power-on" or "power-off" state of the HR20.
----------------
I don't have the box, however the release notes say some HDMI compatibility
issues with some tv's were addressed.........
Improvements
HDMI - Additional compatibility updates
More stability fixes
Category guide filter performance

----------------
I don't have the box, however the release notes say some HDMI compatibility
issues with some tv's were addressed.........
Improvements
HDMI - Additional compatibility updates
More stability fixes
Category guide filter performance

I was speaking of the latest software update for the HR20 that pushed early this morning, not the unit itself vs other generations of D* DVRs. Do you have a source of release notes for the latest software update?

I was speaking of the latest software update for the HR20 that pushed early this morning, not the unit itself vs other generations of D* DVRs. Do you have a source of release notes for the latest software update?

Yes the release notes come from the first post in this thread. It is THE source for all HR20 information. Everything else is highly suspect, including D* CSRs.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=66858

FYI...

Don't get too optimistic or pessimistic about this particular release. It will be short lived, and this box is 5 to 10 more releases away from being stable and having all the features working reliably. However I love the box, the price, and the process involved with being an early adopter.

has anyone here have problems playing some of their series link recordings? I had recorded csi last week and I tried playing it and it was just blank, I tried again the day after and still the same. Is there a fix to this?

Sounds like you could fix that by turning "native" off. Mine changes channels faster than the tivo.

You want "native" off regardless. That will cause a whole bundle of problems - particularly, your machine freezing/locking.

So far, I'm having good luck on my 3rd machine (crossing fingers). The new upgrade has not yet fixed my HDMI compatibility, but recording is going well.

The 'season pass' option (enabled by hitting R twice) doesn't always work for me (as in, it isn't getting all shows). That's it.

In the past 2 weeks I have spent 28 hours on the phone to DTV in an attempt to straighten out my account after upgrading to their new HD hardware. It has been a very frustrating experience & I’ve ragged on them in my postings. To be fair [to D*] I must say that they have cleared up my account. It has been quite a learning experience & hope this will help others dealing with D*.
The best CSR’ are in retention [ph# -824-], next comes “normal” [ph# -531-] and the “newest” are in installation & return [ph# -355-].
As frustrating as it can be [dealing with D*], overcoming your emotions [suppressing them] is the best way to achieve success.
Calling the retention dept. is the most effective, but they can’t override the return dept.
Retention can [has] help to program the “D* system” so a call to the return dept. will eventually motivate them to clear an RMA.
In my case, retention placed an order [for free] to Ironwood [they are still horrible] to deliver a unit so I could then turn around & send it to the return dept. to clear my account. Ironwood [true to form] “left me hanging” yesterday & a call this morning to “355” finally “got through to them” that if they “cleared my RMA” & canceled the Ironwood order, that D* & my account would be “straight”. It took two weeks & 28 hours on the phone!
Don’t ever stay “on hold” more than 15 min. Call back at another time [or number].
DTV does want to help make customers happy & has a very bad phone system [when overloaded]. Ironwood makes “D*s job” incredibly difficult.
I hope this will be useful to anyone needing to call D*.

By releases do you mean, new units or do you mean, software upgrades? I'm supposed to get one next week - If you're saying that it's unstable and won't be able to be fixed with downlaods then I don't want the damn thing even if it is free.


FYI...

Don't get too optimistic or pessimistic about this particular release. It will be short lived, and this box is 5 to 10 more releases away from being stable and having all the features working reliably. However I love the box, the price, and the process involved with being an early adopter.

Are poeple saying this doesn't work with HDMI with the current bugs? The posts are slightly confusing.

Are poeple saying this doesn't work with HDMI with the current bugs? The posts are slightly confusing.
You may find "next week" will be a little longer since they're "out of stock". My yesterday's installation is now Nov. 6th.
There are bugs with the box, but HDMI is dependent on your TV [what's on the other end of the HDMI "handshake"].
If you are expecting a "flawless" box, then you should not be an "early adopter" & wait until.................

Are poeple saying this doesn't work with HDMI with the current bugs? The posts are slightly confusing.

People are saying that there seems to be some sync issues on HDMI between the HR20 and some panels/displays. YMMV....

By releases do you mean, new units or do you mean, software upgrades? I'm supposed to get one next week - If you're saying that it's unstable and won't be able to be fixed with downlaods then I don't want the damn thing even if it is free.

By "releases" I mean automatic software updates in the middle of the night via satellite.

Here is a thread with 15 pages of posts on the deals people get on D* HD DVRs. The last 5 pages deal with the HR20. Basically if you are a long time D* subscriber with good standing and you have ST and SF you can be upgraded at no charge. I could write another 5 or 6 paragraphs on the subject but its probably better if you just go through the thread.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=686376&page=1&pp=30

Once again, if you don't like the early adopter process then you may want to wait. Some people on the official HR20 forum are downright rude and nasty about their experiences with their HR20. Both my boxes work fine for the most part, but I am technically inclined, very tolerant of the complexities that hi tech software represents, and able to control my wife regarding the few bugs that are perceivable.

Once again, if you don't like the early adopter process then you may want to wait. Some people on the official HR20 forum are downright rude and nasty about their experiences with their HR20. Both my boxes work fine for the most part, but I am technically inclined, very tolerant of the complexities that hi tech software represents, and able to control my wife regarding the few bugs that are perceivable.

Now YOUR post has me laughing. I cant believe people with a new box acting like the world is coming to an end because they cant fast forward past commercials correctly. God I would hate to be a D* programmer reading that forum. I think I'd get so mad I would deliberately put a bug into it to delete the program when they hit the FF button 20 times or more :)... And WIVES??? Come on. I sure wouldnt want to be in the relationship that ended in divorce because the darling missed her soap in high def !

The only problem Ive had with my box was the loss of recorded shows due to the infamous Black Screen, which they fixed with the last upgrade. Sure Id like OTA, but I can wait. I think its just great being able to actually come home from work late, and watch my HD shows in HD rather than 480i widescreen. Its worth a few bugs to do that.

I just got my second HR20 last Saturday for the bedroom, and this time I got it at no charge. My HR20 in the family room is in a cabinet so I have not noticed any noise, but in my dead silent bedroom at night with the new HR20 above my TV it makes an annoying clicking noise even when completely shut off. I suspect it is the hard drive. Anybody else notice this. I thought I had some freakin' rats in my walls at first!

There is a MAJOR bug with new software. When recording MPEG 4 local, in playback FF does not work. It did before the new release. Why would DTV release new software that makes things worse?
The work around is to hit the 30 second FF button

Just spoke with level 2 tech. The fix for the ff problem is to reformat hard drive. You will lose all of your recorded shows and all shows that are scheduled to be recorded.
Push reset. when screen starts push down arrow and record on front of box for 10 seconds. release, the yellow record light comes on for 30 seconds and that should solve the problem
Again, all shows that were recorded and scheduled WILL BE LOST
BE CAREFUL

D* has made a large investment [new sats] in HD. They have changed from selling their hardware to leasing it. With the right CSR they will give away their new hardware [for S&H]. Why? They want to insure their true revenue source, the monthly programing income. They need [want] to secure revenue over the next 24 months to show investors [stockholders].
While I don't like having to commit "blindly" to a 2-year commitment, before I can "see if" the new hardware actually works [I'm not sure this is legal in my state], as an investor [I have absolutly no involvment in DTV] it makes good business sense.
This is solely my opinion or observation & as such may have no correlation to anything in the real world.

While I don't like having to commit "blindly" to a 2-year commitment, before I can "see if" the new hardware actually works [I'm not sure this is legal in my state], as an investor [I have absolutly no involvment in DTV] it makes good business sense.

I haven't tested this rumor, but a friend of mine had 14 months left on his 2 year contract and wanted out. They only charged him $210 for the balance of 14 months. The point is that if something better does come along it seems to be a small price to pay. Both my free HR20s work flawlessly and I am very pleased with D* and their roadmap. However if Verizon FIOS gets NFL ST I would seriously consider bailing and paying the nominal exit fee.

I could write another 5 or 6 paragraphs on the subject but its probably better if......
I did enjoy your "TV show" crack, & re-reading a post, found myself in agreement.
Thanks for [giving us] your opinion.

Just spoke with level 2 tech. The fix for the ff problem is to reformat hard drive. You will lose all of your recorded shows and all shows that are scheduled to be recorded.
Push reset. when screen starts push down arrow and record on front of box for 10 seconds. release, the yellow record light comes on for 30 seconds and that should solve the problem
Again, all shows that were recorded and scheduled WILL BE LOST
BE CAREFULNonsense. Wait for a software update. It's a known bug that was allowed in to get rid of the more nasty unplayable recording bug. A reformat won't fix things.

Nonsense. Wait for a software update. It's a known bug that was allowed in to get rid of the more nasty unplayable recording bug. A reformat won't fix things.
Does anybody [else] have a problem with what looks like a advertisement for "oak" with these postings?
Just my opinion, it is free speech. I just hate ads.

Anyone else getting recordins with split-second black screens?

I'm seeing that on several of my recordings, usually hour-long dramas.

These were recorded off the MPEG2 West Coast feeds of ABC and NBC. So KABC and KNBC in LA.

Anyone else getting recordins with split-second black screens?

I'm seeing that on several of my recordings, usually hour-long dramas.

These were recorded off the MPEG2 West Coast feeds of ABC and NBC. So KABC and KNBC in LA.

Yes.. but off of the MPEG 4 feeds from KNBC.. which also happens on the HR10-250... they (KNBC) are really prone to dropouts on both recorders, MPEG 2 and 4..

Does anybody [else] have a problem with what looks like a advertisement for "oak" with these postings?
Just my opinion, it is free speech. I just hate ads.Pop-up ads? Nope, I don't get any ads when reading posts on AVSForum. Sounds fishy to me. Maybe my Pop-up blocker is stopping them?

Pop-up ads? Nope, I don't get any ads when reading posts on AVSForum. Sounds fishy to me. Maybe my Pop-up blocker is stopping them?
Not "pop-ups", it's the "sub script" [like your disclaimer] that Gray Wolf has...

Not "pop-ups", it's the "sub script" [like your disclaimer] that Gray Wolf has...Oh I see... No, they don't bother me at all. Until now I had never checked his photo gallery. Looks pretty good to me. It isn't really an "advertisement"? And after all, sharing info and free speech and all that --- is the point, isn't it? Blatant advertisements on the other hand? I just wouldn't click on them... :)

I should probably stop with my silly subscript though...

Oh I see... No, they don't bother me at all. Until now I had never checked his photo gallery. Looks pretty good to me. It isn't really an "advertisement"? And after all, sharing info and free speech and all that --- is the point, isn't it? Blatant advertisements on the other hand? I just wouldn't click on them... :)

I should probably stop with my silly subscript though...
Thanks, I shouldn't be "so picky" [as I said it is free speech], & "being silly" is one of "those rights", I defended for many years... so keep it up.

Does anybody [else] have a problem with what looks like a advertisement for "oak" with these postings?
Just my opinion, it is free speech. I just hate ads.
I don't know why you thought you were seeing an ad for oak.

I know that greywolf has been here a long time and that he provides excellent opinions and advice and that he typically will not speak up unless he truly knows what he is talking about (and he knows a lot about this stuff). I hope he is not offended by your reaction (unlikely, he appears to be very level-headed).

Did you look at his gallery? I see it as him showing what he has done for himself with his HDTV and related gear to make it more presentable for his home. I saw nothing that resembled any advertising.

Techofobe -

Since I recall you had significant problems with HDMI on some models of the H20 and your Denon receiver, how is the HR20 performing with the Denon? As I've posted here and in DBSTalk, I'm having a lot of issues with my Sharp panel with HDMI sync.

I don't know why you thought you were seeing an ad for oak.
Thanks for your post. As I'd posted, I was incorrect in how I took his posts, as had been shown to me in an earlier post. Glad you expressed you need to defend him.

Nonsense. Wait for a software update. It's a known bug that was allowed in to get rid of the more nasty unplayable recording bug. A reformat won't fix things.
You are correct. Again level 2 tech support has no idea of what they are talking about
I lost all of my shows for no reason!!

Last summer when the new MPEG4 satellites were announced, there was much speculation about the cost of swapping MPEG2 HD receivers to the new MPEG4 HD receivers.

When I called DirecTv to order the HR10 TiVO, I asked if I should wait till the new units arrived. I was told that if I ordered the TiVO (HR10) now, I would receive a free swap to the MPEG4 DVRs (HR20) when they were available. I was also told all my currently subscribed HD (non-TiVO) receivers would be swapped at no charge to the MPEG4 equivalent--in order to receive HD locals.

Well I called today for the free swap and they are reneging and saying I owe $300 for the HR20. I told them I would never have ordered the H10 knowing that and would have waited. (Of course the CSR could care less what I was earlier told.)

I seem to remember reading an official announcement from DirecTv mentioning the free swap for existing HD customers. Where can I find this? What is my recourse? CSR roulette? (Doesn't really thrill me.)

Well I called today for the free swap and they are reneging and saying I owe $300 for the HR20. I told them I would never have ordered the H10 knowing that and would have waited. (Of course the CSR could care less what I was earlier told.)

I seem to remember reading an official announcement from DirecTv mentioning the free swap for existing HD customers. Where can I find this? What is my recourse? CSR roulette? (Doesn't really thrill me.)
Don't be upset. D* is giving out H20 & HR20 for S&H.
Call retention 800-824-9081. They have given me two H20s & ordered me a HR20 @ little or no cost. Yes they do want to have you "pay for the privilege" to lease the new hardware, but it doesn't take much to have them [do their job] make you a happy customer.
If you don't find them "happy to serve you", say no thanks, & call again. The last poster that did this, needed two calls to have success.
Stay Happy...... I see Sopris has snow already.

Techofobe -
Since I recall you had significant problems with HDMI on some models of the H20 and your Denon receiver, how is the HR20 performing with the Denon? As I've posted here and in DBSTalk, I'm having a lot of issues with my Sharp panel with HDMI sync.It might be too soon to say because I've only had the HR20 for about 2 hours now. But, it is in fact working fine with the HDMI connection. So far, knock on wood. Nothing about these receivers surprises me but I wouldn't think that your Sharp is the cause of your HDMI connection problem... Do you have the Denon AVR-4306 model too?

I'm connecting my new HR20 thru my Denon and then into a Panasonic TH-50PHD8UK display. The problems that I originally had with HDMI thankfully went away when I replaced the H20-600 with the H20-100 receiver.

The two guys who did my install today checked my dish alignment. They said that the tech who installed my AT-9 dish back in March didn't tighten the dish and after they realigned the dish signal strengths seem to have improved significantly. It will be very interesting to see if that improves the MPEG4 reception on my H20. It hasn't been good previously. My fingers are crossed.

I have managed thus far to program the new remote so that it operates the HR20 when set to Directv and controls the H20 when switched to AV1. It might be easiesr for me to use one remote for controlling the HR20 and the other remote to control the H20 instead of using that little switch on the top of the remote? I haven't yet figured out how to get the new remote to control the volume on the Denon... Maybe there's a post here that will help me, I'm going do a search now.

Regarding the sig line, I put that in after building my first big project and was hoping to see if it went over well with people who were knowledgable about the subject. After this thread drops the subject, I'll take the line out. I pretty much forgot it was there years ago and I don't need any more feedback.

Regarding the sig line.
You do seem to be a "good guy" & I was out of line. People use the "sig line" for some of the strangest things.
From what I've gathered, this thread will be around for some time with the "great help" D* offers customers.

All the talk about shortages of DVRs had me worried for todays scheduled install.

Luckily for me, the installer is now here and has the HR20-700. He is using the pole mount method. He has already gone through the chore of digging a hole and pouring concrete. He also has a signal meter. Looks like a got a decent installer.

All the talk about shortages of DVRs had me worried for todays scheduled install.

Luckily for me, the installer is now here and has the HR20-700. He is using the pole mount method. He has already gone through the chore of digging a hole and pouring concrete. He also has a signal meter. Looks like a got a decent installer.
Score one.
It doesn't sound like you're getting the "standard installation".

Actually, I may have spoke to soon. After letting the concrete dry and putting up the dish, he wasn't able to get all the signals. I had to dig up the concrete and do some patch work on my lawn.

We have finally tried placing it elsewhere and are now pulling all signals. GRRRRRRR...

Going on hour 6...

Actually, I may have spoke to soon. After letting the concrete dry and putting up the dish, he wasn't able to get all the signals. I had to dig up the concrete and do some patch work on my lawn.

We have finally tried placing it elsewhere and are now pulling all signals. GRRRRRRR...

Going on hour 6...
I hope you'll offer him a beer for going the extra mile for you. I think "standard installation" is a couple of screws in the wall & a few feet of cable.

What's D*s ad say: "All you need is a clear view of the southern sky". Yeah, in the real world, you need a little more. I've had a site evaluation where the "old guy" wondered all over my 1/2 acre & gave up. I've had another installer tell me which tree was the trouble [wrong tree]. It would be nice if there was a way to see where you needed to have the dish point. Hey, there is... used the dish! I've had so much "fun" with all of the pine trees around that I do a "temp mount" to check before I dig a hole for the cement & pole. Even then the trees [on someone else's land] now have grown up to block the signal.
I mention this so you won't be too hard on the guy who dug your "holes". It ain't easy.

Finally got everything going. Took from 9:00 am until 4:00 pm.

I tried to convince him to place the pole right next to where the original dish was but he wanted to try his place first. I wanted to tell him I told you so when it didn't work, but I wanted to keep him on my good side.

I gotta hand it to him though. He was a nice guy and he earned his money. I gave him a really nice tip. No beer, just grape juice.

Now to play with my new toy....

Well, now this sucks. The DVR is now dead. It started acting up yesterday evening. I recorded a few shows and then tried watching them and got a blank screen, couldn't pause live TV, and the hard drive was making a loud noise. So I gave up and tried to mess with it this morning. I unplugged and plugged back in, and now it won't even turn back on.

So now it's dead and I have to wait for a replacement. Good news is I am getting a whopping $7.00 credit on my bill for my missed days. Somebody up there loves me!

Hopefully most other people will have much better luck than me. But the installer did mention that he had been running into a lot of bad ones.

Well, now this sucks. The DVR is now dead. It started acting up yesterday evening. I recorded a few shows and then tried watching them and got a blank screen, couldn't pause live TV, and the hard drive was making a loud noise. So I gave up and tried to mess with it this morning. I unplugged and plugged back in, and now it won't even turn back on.

So now it's dead and I have to wait for a replacement. Good news is I am getting a whopping $7.00 credit on my bill for my missed days. Somebody up there loves me!

Hopefully most other people will have much better luck than me. But the installer did mention that he had been running into a lot of bad ones.My installation last Friday (Friday the 13th) went much better but the final results were extremely disappointing. That is, I had hoped that realigning my dish would solve the LOUSY reception of the MPEG4 broadcasts here. Such wasn't the case however. Even though I am pulling in high 90's for signals from all five satellites now --- the local stations in HD still don't work much of the time. I try not to get angry but there is something about paying for something and NOT getting it that really irritates me. Need to work on that? :)

And I guess it could be much worse? Sounds like your receiver itself is bad... At least mine works. Well, sorta.

I really wonder if Mpeg4 will ever actually work. At this point I am surprised when I tune in a local station broadcasting in HD and it doesn't freeze up and have continual glitches. Oh yeah, and add to the mix that the local Tampa stations must be some of the worst regarding HD implementation and it gets really frustrating.

But, I will say that when it does work it is great! Mpeg2 is good. But, when will D* switch over completely to Mpeg4? About the same time that my 2 year committment expires? ;)

I really wonder if Mpeg4 will ever actually work. At this point I am surprised when I tune in a local station broadcasting in HD and it doesn't freeze up and have continual glitches. Oh yeah, and add to the mix that the local Tampa stations must be some of the worst regarding HD implementation and it gets really frustrating.

But, I will say that when it does work it is great! Mpeg2 is good. But, when will D* switch over completely to Mpeg4? About the same time that my 2 year committment expires? ;)
And you "wondered" why I wanted to have a "hands on experience" before being "locked into" the 2-year commitment?

And you "wondered" why I wanted to have a "hands on experience" before being "locked into" the 2-year commitment?The trouble as I see it is that I really don't have any viable alternatives to D* at this time. My OTA reception is crummy because there are huge trees on my neighbors' property that effectively block my view of the transmitter towers 50 miles away. And my unreasonable neighbor refuses to let me take my chain saw to them... Claims he likes having trees. Go figure... :D

And, from everything I've heard the local HD cable quality is crappy too (ComCrap). My best hope seems to be if they eventually run fiber optic into my neighborhood so I get FIOS. But that's probably many, many months away at best.

I will say that, definitely and without any doubt, given the unacceptable quality of the MPEG4 satellite reception that I get from D* --- if I had an alternative I wouldn't feel bound by the 2 year "committment". Fact is that I simply don't feel "locked in" at all. The "committment" is a two-way street. D* has a responsibility to deliver an acceptable signal. I am responsible for paying for it. If they don't meet their obligation that relieves me from mine? Least that's certainly the way it seems to me. Might be all wrong, and it might be less expensive to just pay the early termination fee instead, but it's a moot point since it would be like jumping out of the frying pan into the fire to cancel D* service.

I wouldn't even care if MPEG4 worked if those daRned trees weren't blocking my view. :) That's not D*'s fault...

D*'s MPEG2 HD works well and looks great. Maybe eventually the MPEG4 will get better too?

D*'s MPEG2 HD works well and looks great. Maybe eventually the MPEG4 will get better too?
I think we're in the same lifeboat [are doing your share of bailing?]...
I have trees, D* is the best option, etc...
The MPEG-4 "issue" may not be D* but your local stations. I had trouble with my OTA channels. D* came up with MPEG-4 [great I thought] only to find [from the station's eng. dept. manager] that it was the station [& the signal they sent out] that is the source of the problem.

I think we're in the same lifeboat [are doing your share of bailing?]...
I have trees, D* is the best option, etc...
The MPEG-4 "issue" may not be D* but your local stations. I had trouble with my OTA channels. D* came up with MPEG-4 [great I thought] only to find [from the station's eng. dept. manager] that it was the station [& the signal they sent out] that is the source of the problem.Yep, I get the sneaky feeling that the local HD channel reception trouble is a combination of the MPEG4 troubles via D* and local station HD troubles. Either one would be a pain in the keyster, but lumped together they really glom things up for me (and it sounds like for you too). The scary part is that I am beginning to just get acustomed to the lousy local HD reception. "Oh gee, isn't that a shame --- right at the most climactic moment of CSI --- the image has frozen! Whoopsies... Wonder what happened."

I'm definitely bailing as fast as I can. Doesn't help, but so it goes... :D

I'm definitely bailing as fast as I can. Doesn't help, but so it goes... :D
I picked my "handle" because I grew up with things working "correctly" & you didn't need to "fight" to get what you paid for. Now I know this may be dating me back to dirt & dinosaurs, but [I still beleive] excepting crap shouldn't be tolerated nor become the norm...

Well the local stations is another thing that really iritates me right now. Even if the DVR had been working, in order for me to get my locals in HD, I would now have to start paying for them, thanks to the no OTA working. If you ask me, Directv should give us our local HD channels free until they fix this problem. I plan to complain to retention once I get a working DVR.

I am however very interested in seeing just how well my mpeg4 channels will look.

It's interesting hearing about how different people are responding to the quality of the picture.

Well the local stations is another thing that really iritates me right now. Even if the DVR had been working, in order for me to get my locals in HD, I would now have to start paying for them, thanks to the no OTA working. If you ask me, Directv should give us our local HD channels free until they fix this problem. I plan to complain to retention once I get a working DVR.

Hmmm. My MPEG4 channels are free. So was my DVR. Both work great.

I am however very interested in seeing just how well my mpeg4 channels will look.

It's interesting hearing about how different people are responding to the quality of the picture.
I may be missing something here. It is my understanding that MPEG-4 is being used not to improve picture quality [over MPEG-2], but to reduce the bandwidth [for more channels in the same space] requirement [over MPEG-2]. While the "end user" will only know the quality of the picture [they see], the complaints seem to be more about the new hardware [MPEG-4 requires more load on the box end & RAM]. The MPEG-4 problems seem to be with fast moving [sports] images in 1080I [1920x1080 verses 720P@1280x720] where the more compressed signal isn't being displayed as well as the MPEG-2 [1080I] image.
Part two: your local channels are all having to deal with getting their signal to D* [locally] for D* to then uplink them to the SAT which has [it's] problems too [this isn't a MPEG-4 problem].

I may be missing something here. It is my understanding that MPEG-4 is being used not to improve picture quality [over MPEG-2], but to reduce the bandwidth [for more channels in the same space] requirement [over MPEG-2]. While the "end user" will only know the quality of the picture [they see], the complaints seem to be more about the new hardware [MPEG-4 requires more load on the box end & RAM]. The MPEG-4 problems seem to be with fast moving [sports] images in 1080I [1920x1080 verses 720P@1280x720] where the more compressed signal isn't being displayed as well as the MPEG-2 [1080I] image.
Part two: your local channels are all having to deal with getting their signal to D* [locally] for D* to then uplink them to the SAT which has [it's] problems too [this isn't a MPEG-4 problem].That's part of what I find so annoying. You literally don't know if the reason for the D*'s local HD feed's failing is due to MPEG4 technology, the receiver itself, the uplink to D* or isolated problems with the local station's transmissions. Or, a combination of these or all of the above.

All I know is that it isn't "just" fast moving sports that I can't watch. It's also programs such as Boston Legal, CSI or Law & Order and The Tonight Show. Since I'm a "bottom line" kind of old fart. And, the "bottom line" is that for whatever reason, this HD stuff simply doesn't work very well much of the time.

Maybe I'm just spoiled, what with expecting to get what I pay for? I don't know what other people condiser to be free... My average D* bill is about $150 a month. Am I being unreasonable? Maybe I am (as some have suggested) just a constant complainer who enjoys bashing D*. Fact is that I have been a very happy D* customer for almost 2 decades (whoops, I mean 12 years :D ). Sure, satellite service has never been perfect --- but I don't EXPECT perfection. Fact is that D* Mpeg2 HD quality is actually quite good!

Oh yeah: I read in a previous post that the HR20 has "issues" with fast-forwarding. My HR20 doesn't fast-forward except by using the 30-secong skip button. Is that normal at the present time and on the list of things that will be addressed in the days to come?

Since I'm a "bottom line" kind of old fart. And, the "bottom line" is that for whatever reason, this HD stuff simply doesn't work very well much of the time.
Maybe I'm just spoiled, what with expecting to get what I pay for? Am I being unreasonable? Fact is that I have been a very happy D* customer. Sure, satellite service has never been perfect --- but I don't EXPECT perfection. Fact is that D* Mpeg2 HD quality is actually quite good!
If you're going to help bailing out the lifeboat; you need to know what [when] to bail effectively.
Anybody with any of the HR-20 or H-20 series units is an "early adopter" [read guinea pig for D*].
Your local channels will take time for the stations & D* to “sort things out”. This isn’t MPEG-4 issues, but getting the HD signal through “the chain”. Before [this] you didn’t know how bad your local HD programming was [without OTA reception].
Bashing D* is fair [for what they’re responsible] & there is plenty to do it for.
As an “end user” you shouldn't need to learn "the what & why” it doesn’t work. [Believe me with my 30 years fixing this type equipment; I get even more pissed because I know what…]
Those that think you’re “pissing too much” are those that will “take anything” just to get the sports package [they can’t get anywhere else].
Now, the HR-20 may not be mature enough [read debugged] for you at present & changing to an H20 [receiver] with it’s [fewer] bugs might be the answer. It won’t fix your locals, but at least it won’t be the hardware & you can “play with” an antenna.

Still wonder why I'm against the "blind commitment" to see if this hardware is worth a sh**?

Still wonder why I'm against the "blind commitment" to see if this hardware is worth a sh**?
I'm generally against making any and all committments, in general. Generally speaking. :)

But I do have a question for you? If you hadn't agreed to a 2-year committment with D* would you cancel their service?

I voluntarily agreed to the 2-year committment knowing fully well that the HR20 was likely not going to work right, right out of the box... But also, by failing to provide a satisfactory product and service, D* has effectively dropped the ball. A moot point since there isn't any better alternative?

As far as being an "early adopter" goes, that is just a cop-out. A good way not to take responsibility. Unless I missed something, D* never advertised that the H20 or HR20 might not work very well, and was an experimental product... For that matter, the troubles with HDTV go far beyond just D*. If there was any truth in advertising, the HDTV banner would include a "this is experimental" statement.

I believe that the "Grand Alliance" (HDTV collaborative group) was formed back in 1993? The first HDTV sets came out around five years later? So much for early adopters? I mean, unless you think that eight years is "early".

D*'s MPEG4 is clearly (to me) not ready for "prime time". If D* offerred a disclaimer that it's MPEG4 service was in the developemental stages and that users of it should not expect it to work properly --- that would be another matter. But, I don't remember seeing or hearing such a disclaimer.

I do have to admit that even as screwy as HDTV is at this point, when it does work --- it is excellent. Sure, it's irritating as heck when it often doesn't work... But, I don't want to cancel my D* subscription. Simply put, as bad as it is, it's better than my other choices. Which, when you think about it, is a pretty good endorsement for D*? Well, kinda... :D

I have 2 HR20s and have been quite pleased with mine. Occcasionally I get the playback freeze screen, but I just fast forward and then it is fine. If you guys really want something to complain about then get cable.

But I do have a question for you? If you hadn't agreed to a 2-year committment with D* would you cancel their service?
I do have to admit that even as screwy as HDTV is at this point, when it does work --- it is excellent. Sure, it's irritating as heck when it often doesn't work... But, I don't want to cancel my D* subscription. Simply put, as bad as it is, it's better than my other choices. Which, when you think about it, is a pretty good endorsement for D*? Well, kinda... :D
I don't have a two year commitment [at this time]. I upgraded to HDTV almost four years ago [joined D* with a one year commitment & spent the next 18 months fighting with a box that Sony never should have put their name on. In the end they replaced it with the next model solving the problem]. At the time I thought HD was ready for "prime time". Since then network tv has "come up to speed" & independents are doing their best to follow [it ain't cheap to do].
Last month, I tried digital cable, & found the Motorola boxes [while they’re stable] do have: very poor UI, a remote that you need to do a tap dance on just to get to your favorites, no 30 sec jump, and an overall poor picture quality [both SD & HD]. Now cable DID give me 30 days to evaluate [at no charge] the service & decide if I wanted it.
On the other hand with D*, it has taken me 28 hours on the phone [no joke] in the past two weeks to get my billing correct, has hardware that won’t pass system self test, & has a 90 day warrantee, after which charge $70 for a “service call”, unless you pay their monthly maintenance fee [another revenue stream].
Knowing all of this, I am a D* customer, because of the picture quality [not their service], and foresee staying with them as long as the equipment works & I can get their signal [I have had to relocate my dish five time in the seven years using SAT TV]. I have run out of locations on my property & actually have my dish “hanging over” my neighbor’s yard to clear the pine trees that [keep growing] block the signal from the ridge to the south. How long will this work is anybody's guess.

Anyone that has the new MPEG4 hardware (HR20), are you guys experiencing "film like" frame rates on some of the locals. Yesterday CBS would "flicker" almost during the Steelers game. Later that night NBC would show the same effect, except it wouldn't be constant. It was like every 10 seconds it would do it for a few seconds. It was very annoying.

Anyone that has the new MPEG4 hardware (HR20), are you guys experiencing "film like" frame rates on some of the locals. Yesterday CBS would "flicker" almost during the Steelers game. Later that night NBC would show the same effect, except it wouldn't be constant. It was like every 10 seconds it would do it for a few seconds. It was very annoying.
I think you're experiencing the "normal" problem with locals [these days]. In a "perfect world" there would be a "continuous bit stream" that your hardware would decode [flawlessly]. I see a similar effect & account it to a loss of "bits" that the box can't overcome.

I think you're experiencing the "normal" problem with locals [these days]. In a "perfect world" there would be a "continuous bit stream" that your hardware would decode [flawlessly]. I see a similar effect & account it to a loss of "bits" that the box can't overcome.

Weird. When I switched to the National HD feed of CBS the flicker was gone. But my guess is that's on one of the older satellites in MPEG2.

Hopefully DTV tweaks this stuff to get rid of it.

I have 2 HR20s and have been quite pleased with mine. Occcasionally I get the playback freeze screen, but I just fast forward and then it is fine. If you guys really want something to complain about then get cable.Very good response Scolo... I will stop complaining about my H20 and HR20 --- because you are happy with yours! I don't know what I was thinking. I'm thrilled to hear that you are "quite pleased" with your two D* receivers.

Silly me, complaining about the my D* receivers' unsatisfactory operation just because MY reception of local HD is terrible. Heck, if I would have known that you were pleased with your reception I wouldn't have mentioned the fact that my reception is totally pathetic.

By the way, your helpful suggestion about fast-forwarding would be excellent except for one tiny problem. Whenever I press the fast-forward button it fast-forwards the recording about 20 seconds and then stops fast-forwarding and begins to loop over and over and over again until I hit Play. If I then try to FF again the receiver just keeps going into a loop and won't fast-forward. But, don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining. If I wanted to complain I would get cable. :mad:

Strangely, I really don't want to complain. Not about D*, not about cable, not about the weather, not about anything. I would just like to be able to watch HDTV. Sorry if my complaining disturbed your pleasurable D* viewing.

You wouldn't happen to have anything constructive to suggest that might make my viewing as pleasurable as yours do you. I mean other than your idiotic suggestion that I get cable? Out of curiosity, do you really think that such suggestions are helpful in the least?

Oh yeah Scolo, what is "the playback freeze screen" you complained about? My HR20 hasn't done that yet... I don't think it has anyway... But, maybe it does it when the picture pixelates so much it is unviewable?

Hopefully DTV tweaks this stuff to get rid of it.
Maybe you should do what Scolo suggested? Get cable? :D

I'm very confident that D* will fix it, eventually. Although my reception of local (Mpeg4) HD broadcasts hasn't improved since I first had my first H20 installed six months ago. And, in fairness, my Mpeg2 reception is great!

I just need to remember that patience is a virtue. ;)

Maybe you should do what Scolo suggested? Get cable? :D

I'm very confident that D* will fix it, eventually. Although my reception of local (Mpeg4) HD broadcasts hasn't improved since I first had my first H20 installed six months ago. And, in fairness, my Mpeg2 reception is great!

I just need to remember that patience is a virtue. ;)
I do enjoy everyone's "input".
Those that don't see any problem with their "MPEG-2" programs it's because "IT AIN'T LOCALLY SOURCED". Every local station send their signal to a DTV local "office" where D* then sends it [to you]. This "extra, new addition" also is having its problems [for each local market]. Please try to read & understand the postings. If you don't understand, ask your question [again], since I think this forum is here to help D* customers [lord we need it with D*s great "help"]. While I do rag on D* [a lot] pissing @ other posts or proclaiming how great your... "xyz" is isn't that helpful.
This IS a free speech forum, so you all have the "right" to...

Well I have my HR20 for two weeks now. It was running great initially but now have seen alot more bugs in it. I do get the "the playback freeze screen" which is very annoying. At times, when I have a Season Pass, it either forgets to record or just cancels my season pass (there is no two shows overlapped). That is another weird and annoying problem. Every so often watching TV, I hear a loud popping noise or static from the speakers on certain channels.

I was really excited to initally get this receiver but now, I wish I had kept my HR10.

I was also talking to one of the local AV installers and he was telling me that they install the H20 with a Tivo Series 3 for people vs the new HR20. They said that they have alot of complaints from customers and they rather not install it.

I wish I had kept my HR10.
I guess my question is why didn't you?
It has been posted, several times, that you didn't need to "exchange" your units [to get the deal].
Another lesson for all of us to remember.

I guess my question is why didn't you?
It has been posted, several times, that you didn't need to "exchange" your units [to get the deal].
Another lesson for all of us to remember.

When I called to get the HR20, I said it was to "replace" an older TiVo and and H20 to replace the HIRD E8. Not once did the guy say he was taking them back. I would have said no anyway, since I paid for them myself. I have no intention of "trading in" the HR10s when they're no longer good. I'll just let D* know they can give me HR20s for free, or I drop D* as my provider. I can find a use for a 250GB hard drive, if nothing else.

Deezul

When I called to get the HR20, I said it was to "replace" an older TiVo and and H20 to replace the HIRD E8. Not once did the guy say he was taking them back. I would have said no anyway, since I paid for them myself. I have no intention of "trading in" the HR10s when they're no longer good. I'll just let D* know they can give me HR20s for free, or I drop D* as my provider. I can find a use for a 250GB hard drive, if nothing else.

Deezul
My installer "thought" he was walking away with my Sony, until I "explained" to him "clearly" what "was" going to happen. "Doorstop" that he was, one call "home" straighten out "his thinking" quickly.

Techo, it sounds like your problem may be the receiver itself. While almost everyone has experienced some bugs on their receivers, most of the bugs are the same across the board. If you have something unique (like FFwd not working) you may be better off with swapping the box out.

Also, have you tried resetting the system?

My box was working grewat until the last software update. Now my mpeg4s don't ffwd the way they should (they move forward but the picture on the screen during the ffwd isn't accurate, so you end up stopping at the wrong time) the same shows in mpg2 work fine (but the PQ isn't as good as the mpg 4) So for now I'm recording in mpg2 nationals, until this latest glitch is worked out (hopefully the next update).

Unfortunately, this is no different than car manufacturers putting cars out and then issuing recalls to fix things they didn't know wouldn't work right. It's more cost effective for a company to fix these things on the fly than come up with a perfect system.

Nothing with the new DVR has been overly frustrating for me yet. If I had your ffwd problem though, I'd likely ask for a replacement box.

Now my shows in mpg2 work fine (but the PQ isn't as good as the mpg 4)
I don't "get this". The PQ shouldn't be different between MPEG 2&4. If anything the "4" might be worse because it uses more compression than "2" & the reason for changing to "4" is to reduce bandwidth [not to improve PQ].
While I'm sure what you're saying is true [for you], I'm trying to understand what the cause is, since my PQ is good [the same] with both.
Would you give me some more description of what you see as different between them?

Well Ironwood showed up yesterday and installed and due to the football games I wasn't doing too much tinkering with it. First impression seems pretty good but I don't like how the guide pulls up vs. the HR10 and also moving forward in time on the guide. There might be a button that makes it jump forward but I haven't found it yet.

Also transponder #99 gets a "failed" and the installer said it is for a future bird. I don't feel like re-reading 29 pages so can someone confirm.

Also transponder #99 gets a "failed" and the installer said it is for a future bird. I don't feel like re-reading 29 pages so can someone confirm.
SNAFU... Situation Normal All F***ed Up.
This is the same thing as my H20s. One finds the 99 sat & the other the 103 sat. Both only find 4 out of 5 sats.
The real "question" is do you get the programs you should? If so, you're "OK".

SNAFU... Situation Normal All F***ed Up.
This is the same thing as my H20s. One finds the 99 sat & the other the 103 sat. Both only find 4 out of 5 sats.
The real "question" is do you get the programs you should? If so, you're "OK".

My installer only tested 101 and 119. I asked about the others, including 99 and 103. He said they currently weren't in use anyway - sometimes they are "on" and sometimes they aren't. I get all my channels I had before plus the locals in HD, so I'm not concerned.

Deezul :cool:

My installer only tested 101 and 119. I asked about the others, including 99 and 103. He said they currently weren't in use anyway - sometimes they are "on" and sometimes they aren't. I get all my channels I had before plus the locals in HD, so I'm not concerned.

Deezul :cool:
Another "Bozo" installer, because your local HD channels come from either 99 or 103.

First impression seems pretty good but I don't like how the guide pulls up vs. the HR10 and also moving forward in time on the guide. There might be a button that makes it jump forward but I haven't found it yet.


After getting used to the guide I actually prefer it to the Tivo guide data. To anser your questions, when in the guide data I believe it is green and red (I forget the colors but it will show on the top right of the guide) will advance forward / backware 12 hours. In addition, when in guide, if you hit Menu you can select date & time which will allow you to jump to any date that guide data is available for. This is so much better than scrolling through screens of data in the old tivo guide data.

Well I got my HR20 last Thursday and so far I am really happy with it. The more I get used to the different interface (compared to their Tivo powered DVRs) the more I like it.

With that being said there is one problem I have encountered and one usage question for you guys.

Problem: During playback of HD streams (I believe it is HD only as I have not seen this problem with SD streams), if you FF or use the SKIP, occasionally it seems to get stuck in a frame loop (it keeps showing the same 2 or 3 frames over and over until you go back to play). If you FF or SKIP immediately it will still loop over the same frames. I have to let it run for a good 10 - 20 seconds to get out of that loop.

Question: With the Tivo based units when you were in a FF mode you could use the advance button to jump to the next tick (marker) - generally the 15 / 30 / 45 / etc markers. I have yet to find a way to do the same thing with the HR20. Is there a way during playback that you can FF / SKIP to a marker? I assume there is no skip to the end as you can just hit stop to go the live stream to reach that point. But would like a way to FF to those marker points during playback.

Techo, it sounds like your problem may be the receiver itself. While almost everyone has experienced some bugs on their receivers, most of the bugs are the same across the board. If you have something unique (like FFwd not working) you may be better off with swapping the box out.

Also, have you tried resetting the system?

My box was working grewat until the last software update. Now my mpeg4s don't ffwd the way they should (they move forward but the picture on the screen during the ffwd isn't accurate, so you end up stopping at the wrong time) the same shows in mpg2 work fine (but the PQ isn't as good as the mpg 4) So for now I'm recording in mpg2 nationals, until this latest glitch is worked out (hopefully the next update).

Unfortunately, this is no different than car manufacturers putting cars out and then issuing recalls to fix things they didn't know wouldn't work right. It's more cost effective for a company to fix these things on the fly than come up with a perfect system.

Nothing with the new DVR has been overly frustrating for me yet. If I had your ffwd problem though, I'd likely ask for a replacement box.Thanks for the helpful reply. I can't remember if I reset the box after it downloaded the software update. I'll try that and see if it helps... I really don't mean to "bash" D*. My comments are merely descriptions of problems I am having. It's even possible that the problems are somehow my fault and not D*'s? It sounds like Farjo has experienced the same problem with FF looping as I have been having... Maybe it is just a bad receiver? Anyone else have any thoughts on this? I hate to call and get a replacement if it isn't a hardware glitch...

The thing I've noticed with both the H20 and the HR20 is that unlike a car that has a recall for a specific problem, my receivers have numerous little glitches and what's even more frustrating is that most of them are intermittent. Sometimes I watch a local HD program and it is fine. Other times I can't get it to work on HD at all. Fact is the problem could sometimes be the local stations fault, or some other factor... Beats me.

I am not about to throw in my D* towel... But it would be great if it the problems weren't so frequent. Since I don't know what is actually involved with the entire Mpeg4 deal, I can't blame D* for the local HD signals not being "perfect". Don't demand perfection. The engineering and technology is shirley incredibly complex...

As I say time and again. When it does all work it is awesome! :D

After getting used to the guide I actually prefer it to the Tivo guide data. To anser your questions, when in the guide data I believe it is green and red (I forget the colors but it will show on the top right of the guide) will advance forward / backware 12 hours. In addition, when in guide, if you hit Menu you can select date & time which will allow you to jump to any date that guide data is available for. This is so much better than scrolling through screens of data in the old tivo guide data.

I'm sure its just getting to know how this unit operates. When I set up my Harmony 880 I programed the "colored" buttons to show up on the remotes LCD figuring they would be good for somthing but I have not had enough time to fugure this box out yet. Hopefully I can tinker with it a little tonight. The function I really want is to move to the next screen of programs and not in 30min increments like hitting FF on the Tivo when in guide. I'm probably just missing something.

One thing that I HATE is the damned blue ring. I tried pressing <&> on the box and no change. These lights need to be dimmed or something. Don't know why I can't control them, I haven't heard of anyone else having this problem.

The engineering and technology is shirley ... :D
I wonder if she's "single" [LOL].
I can't think what you could have done for it to be "your fault".
Without "the experience" of receiving locals, it's hard to judge what the problem is.
Go ahead & bash D*, it's "open season" on them. Just take good aim [for a good kill].

I HATE is the damned blue ring. I tried pressing <&> on the box and no change. These lights need to be dimmed or something. Don't know why I can't control them, I haven't heard of anyone else having this problem.
You missed the posting about "the video arcade game". You're not the only one who.....
Since the remote is RF, you might try covering it up.

I hope this will give some insight into what's wrong with local HD programs.
The HR-20 doesn't [yet] have OTA working so what you see is from DTV.
I love to bash D*, but the complaints should be addressed correctly.
For every local market, D* has had to open a local office to receive the local HD channels from the stations using antennas [I hope more than rabbit ears]. This means D* suffers all of the problems of this type of transmission [drop outs, multipath, etc.] as you would [if the OTA worked]. My local CBS is laying a fiber cable to D* just to solve this [they feel fortunate that they're close enough to make it economically viable].
With this said, there have been times where I can get OTA signals [with my receivers] & D*s signal sucks. These times are "few & far between". This is when it is D* fault.
Every local station is struggling with the change over to HD [& the cost involved].
This isn't a MPEG-4 problem, but as a viewer you "only know" what you see & paid for, doesn't work as other HD [the MPEG-2] programs do [from D*s national feed].
As posted D* is aware of a problem with MPEG-4 [in 1080I] & is working on it.
Complain about their hardware & their service, it needs to improve, but until someone can show that it's MPEG-4 related, let's focus on what the real problems are [hardware/software].
I still have yet to hear about how the picture quality is any different between MPEG-2 & 4 [when you can actually see the picture].
I'll now step down from my soap box for the next posting [to flame me].

I still have yet to hear about how the picture quality is any different between MPEG-2 & 4 [when you can actually see the picture].

It's been said here multiple times that mpg4 looks better.

I agree.

It's been said here multiple times that mpg4 looks better.

I agree.
How [or what] does it look better to you?

How or what does it look better to you?

let em rephrase that. The mpg 4 locals of shows on my hr20 look better than the mpg2 versions of the same shows on my HD Tivo. I haven't been able to see much change between the nationals and mpg4s locals on the hr20 itself (my west coast feed and locals are the same channels, one in mpg2, one in mpg4... so that may be why.) So I think the box is what makes the difference in many ways.

The colors look better, less macroblocking. Overall picture clarity.

for more talk about it.... you might want to check this thread. But I've seen simliar comments in many threads here and on DBStalk.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=736115

let em rephrase that. The mpg 4 locals of shows on my hr20 look better than the mpg2 versions of the same shows on my HD Tivo. I haven't been able to see much change between the nationals and mpg4s locals on the hr20 itself (my west coast feed and locals are the same channels, one in mpg2, one in mpg4... so that may be why.) So I think the box is what makes the difference in many ways.

The colors look better, less macroblocking. Overall picture clarity.

for more talk about it.... you might want to check this thread. But I've seen simliar comments in many threads here and on DBStalk.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=736115
Thank you, & I do agree with you that it may be the unit used in viewing over the actual MPEG-2 v 4.
As I've posted, D* has a much better PQ over the Motorola units.

It's been said here multiple times that mpg4 looks better.

I agree.

Is it possible that D* isnt compressing the mpeg4 channels as heavily as it is the mpeg2 version? That would make them look a lot better, just as my locals via antenna look much better than the same show via D*.

I remember when it was first announced that D* would be repurposing the Spaceways for HDTV that someone calculated that they had enough bandwidth to cover every HDTV channels in the country, using full ATSC bandwidth (19 Mbps) and MPEG2.

What happened to that?

Is it possible that D* isnt compressing the mpeg4 channels as heavily as it is the mpeg2 version? That would make them look a lot better, just as my locals via antenna look much better than the same show via D*.
My testing has shown that OTA channels have the best PQ, then was D*, and least was cable.
The reason for D* to move to MPEG-4 [over MPEG-2] is more "compression" so as to decrease the bandwidth [needed] for a single channel [allowing for more channels within the same bandwidth to the SAT].
If bandwidth was "unlimited" then they wouldn't have needed to change anything to add more channels, but there are limits [& cost] to bandwidth [just like cable] so D* has squeezed more into the sat, requiring the "box" to work harder to uncompress the signal for viewing. This was a tradeoff between the add cost to each unit [RAM] verses the cost of SAT bandwidth.
As I keep saying, PQ wasn't in the equation, dollars to get more content was.

I remember when it was first announced that D* would be repurposing the Spaceways for HDTV that someone calculated that they had enough bandwidth to cover every HDTV channels in the country, using full ATSC bandwidth (19 Mbps) and MPEG2.

What happened to that?
Dollars, if you can squeeze more in, you are free to sell more [to others] & increase your "bottom line".
Do you remember dish & DTV were going to merge, but either the FTC or DOJ said no!
Both use the 110 sat.

OK, I've been using my HR20 with a 3-LNB dish now for 3 weeks. It's been flawless, I have not experienced any of the problems that some of you talk about here on this forum.

UNTIL NOW!!!!!!!!!

I just had the 5-LNB dish installed today and now my HR20 is acting up with all sorts of problems. First of all my pause and rewind buttons don't respond. My wife went to watch the program Hero's that it was supposed to record but we only have a black screen.

Like I said I experienced none of these problems while it was hooked up to the 3-LNB dish. The HR20 always worked perfect for me until todays install of the new dish.

Is this a problem between the 5-LNB dish and the HR20? Is this something that went wrong with the dish install? What do I do now?

I just discovered that if I switch channels the pause, rewind buttons, FF and all the other functions work, but not on the channel that my wife is watching Hero's on.

I have had that happen, when trick play doesnt work on the channel its recording, you can pretty much guess the recording will be bad too. Dont know why. Best bet is to stop the recording, change channels, change back, hit record again.

I now have had this problem twice. The first time I though it might have been something I had done when setting up passes, deleting things, etc. but it happened again tonight.

Specifically this is what had happened:

1) I set up a bunch of passes and reorganized them using the priortizer)
2) I did a manual record (from the guide) for a Kings game (on Center Ice)
3) I checked the To-Do list a half hour before the game and it still showed
4) I went to My VOB at 8:35 (game started at 8:30 my time) and it was not there - I check history and it shows deleted

It has now done this twice on games I tried to record on Center Ice. I need to setup another manual record for testing after the game as I have other things recording right now. I have 4 more setup and went in and changed the keep option from disk full to until I delete. I have no idea if that might be causing the problem but the only thing I can change that might affect it.

I will post my results of further tests once I can set them up but wanted to see if anyone else is seeing this and/or has any idea why a manual recording (selected the program from the guide then did a record on that show) is deleting at what appears to be the start time as opposed to actually recording the program. So far I have not seen this problem with anything I am recording from a pass.

EDIT: Actually the first game I setup to record was on HDNET - so it was not just center ice. I was thinking maybe it is trying to start the recording before the stream actually starts and that's why it deletes but it also happened on a game I tried recording off of HDNET so that's not the case.

EDIT2: In one case (HDNET game) the DVR was powered off when the recording started. With tonights game it was on and I was watching something from My VOB. However other scheduled recordings recorded properly with the DVR powered off.

UPDATE1: I setup 2 manual recordings (I did choose to kepp both until I delete) and both did record properly. I setup an NHL game tomorrow (I don't really care about the game but to test) and also choose to kepp until I delete. I also had to delete something from my priortizer to record the game - the same situation I had with the 2 games that did not previously record. I will update tomorrow evening if it worked or not.

Geez. What did I get myself into. You guys have me really worried now. This sounds like a really buggy receiver. It's a shame because I was really excited until now.

I should be getting my replacement for my 1 day old receiver in a couple of days.

UNTIL NOW!!!!!!!!!

I just had the 5-LNB dish installed today and now my HR20 is acting up with all sorts of problems. Like I said I experienced none of these problems while it was hooked up to the 3-LNB dish. The HR20 always worked perfect for me until todays install of the new dish.
What do I do now?
I don't get to share your "joy" for about 3 more weeks.
What I guess is; it's not the installation of the dish exactly, but that fact that you now have access to the 99 & 103 sats, and you've [now] updated your software.
The 99 sat seem to be the source of the software updates [this from a bad H20 that could only find the 99 sat].
As always, you might want to unplug your unit [10 min] & then reboot it & see if there is any change.
Best I've got until I too have hands on experience.

I don't "get this". The PQ shouldn't be different between MPEG 2&4. If anything the "4" might be worse because it uses more compression than "2" & the reason for changing to "4" is to reduce bandwidth [not to improve PQ].
While I'm sure what you're saying is true [for you], I'm trying to understand what the cause is, since my PQ is good [the same] with both.
Would you give me some more description of what you see as different between them?

MPG4 is a BETTER compression algorithm with higher quality. Even though the compression is smaller, that is making the size smaller, the quality is greater because it's a smarter algorithm. MPEG2 is something like 15 years old, while MPEG4 is quite new.

Techo, it sounds like your problem may be the receiver itself. While almost everyone has experienced some bugs on their receivers, most of the bugs are the same across the board. If you have something unique (like FFwd not working) you may be better off with swapping the box out. Also, have you tried resetting the system?
sandiegojoe,

I owe you a beer or two!

Your suggestion about resetting the HR20 fixed the Fast-Forward (looping) problem...

Not only does the Fast-Forward work now, the picture is viewable now (not completely pixelated) while it is going forwards and backwards.

Major difference/improvement.

THANKS! :D

The HR20 FF problem is inherent in the present software version. A reset will not fix it. You must have been running an MPEG2 recording. The problem only exists on MPEG4 recordings.

MPG4 is a BETTER compression algorithm with higher quality. Even though the compression is smaller, that is making the size smaller, the quality is greater because it's a smarter algorithm. MPEG2 is something like 15 years old, while MPEG4 is quite new.
I can [will] agree with you that the new algorithm is "better" [maybe not for the same reasons]. The compression is greater [not smaller] making the size smaller, which was the reason for it. The analog signal used 5 MHz. MPEG-2 allowed 5 channels to be in the same 5 MHz. HD uses the "original" 5 MHz. for one channel, increasing the need for "bandwidth" [by 5] which is very costly [for suppliers].
Enter "the new algorithm" MPEG4. Better, yes, because more content can be sent over the same bandwidth.
Improved picture quality? I'm not sure, since my eyes see the same picture [quality] on the same unit whether it's MPEG2 or 4. Is there less "macroblocking"? Could be, but this could also be because there is more hardware to support the new algorithm requirements [which was also a major concern (cost)]. It's the same old "chicken or egg" [software/hardware] question.
As a system tech, [I've been called "anal-log" by my software buddies] it doesn't matter once the system works well [correctly].
Now, if someone can explain "what" picture quality is "better", I will [test] & change my opinion [by learning more] since I don't know everything [far from it].

The HR20 FF problem is inherent in the present software version. A reset will not fix it. You must have been running an MPEG2 recording. The problem only exists on MPEG4 recordings.
Could this be due to the more "compressed" signal?

Just gonna my situation in there in case it helps anyone.

I got my first HR20 about a month ago. It worked great for 4 days, I recorded and played back several shows to make sure. Then one day I got "DVR service not activated". Several call s the tech support, several reboots, several account verifications later..."We're gonna send you a new one and credit your account $100".

Last week I got the new one in the mail. followed all the instructions, activated it...and it took FOREVER to upload all the info, but that has been the only issue, besides the occaisional hangup on playback and the FF trick works on that. So far so good, I hope I ended up with a good one.

If it wasn't the box I was going to blame my wiring because I read that crimped connections were not reccomended. Does anyone know why this is and what problems this couold cause?

Just fYI: My Original HR20 was delivered and installed by the local Dallas/Fort Worth installer. My new box was shipped from the North East (I think Boston) and it had stickers on it that said "DO NOT SHIP UNTIL OCT 06"

The HR20 FF problem is inherent in the present software version. A reset will not fix it. You must have been running an MPEG2 recording. The problem only exists on MPEG4 recordings.Aw crapola...

You're exactly right greywolf. I was watching the MNF game on ESPN. Just checked it with CSI Miami and it does the jitterbug shuffle and looping deal, same as before.

Yet another reason Mpeg4 infuriates me. :mad:

Thanks a lot for the information! Saved me from pulling out the remaining two hairs on my bald head? :)

For those that do get the "DVR Service Not Activated" error - here is something to keep in mind and despite telling my installers what the problem was they still spent over an hour on the phone with DTV to sort out (and of course I was correct).

DTV has *TWO* DVR tiers - one for the Tivo based units and one for the new DirecTV units. If you have Tivo based units you should already be receiving the Tivo DVR tier. If you get that error on the HR20 - make sure you (or your installers) explicitly tell the DTV folks that you need the HR20 DVR Tier.

The installers had the DTV folks resend the update for the Tivo DVR tier and couldn't figure out what it would work (again I told them numerous times my previous DVRs are all Tivo based units and I need the new Tier). After several attemps the DTV folks went to an additional level fo support who said "You need to add the other DVR tier to the account".

I was going to blame my wiring because I read that crimped connections were not reccomended. Does anyone know why this is and what problems this could cause?
The "F-type" connectors are not spec'ed for the frequencies used by DTV. Impedance [70 Ohm] is important for [any] RF signal transmission. Mismatches cause a reflections [back to the source] reducing the [forward] signal.
Now, a "compression" connector doesn't change the distance between the center conductor & the outer conductor [ground], [a crimped connector does] allowing higher frequencies to be used [than the cable/connectors were designed for]. This gets into the capacitive & inductive reactance components of impedance, but I shouldn't bore you anymore....

The "F-type" connectors are not spec'ed for the frequencies used by DTV. Impedance [70 Ohm] is important for [any] RF signal transmission. Mismatches cause a reflections [back to the source] reducing the [forward] signal.
Now, a "compression" connector doesn't change the distance between the center conductor & the outer conductor [ground], [a crimped connector does] allowing higher frequencies to be used [than the cable/connectors were designed for]. This gets into the capacitive & inductive reactance components of impedance, but I shouldn't bore you anymore....

T. M. I. :D

Yet another reason Mpeg4 infuriates me. :mad:
I think you've "hit the nail on the head". Mpeg4 uses more compression which will "over load" the decoding capabilities in FF. What happens if [after you see "the looping"] you go to play & let the decoding "catch up"?

I think you've "hit the nail on the head". Mpeg4 uses more compression which will "over load" the decoding capabilities in FF. What happens if [after you see "the looping"] you go to play & let the decoding "catch up"?
What do you mean "Catch Up"? As in Heinz Ketchup?

When I hit play after the FF fails and begins loopng, and then wait a few seconds and hit FF again, it jumps BACK to where it was looping. When I wait a minute or so, it just fast-forwards a little and then begins the looping again. Once in a great while the fast-forward doesn't go into the looping. But it is rare when it does work...

The 30-second skip ahead button does work (I think?) but when using it with Mpeg4 recordings the picture is terribly pixelated.

I've found that with Mpeg2 recordings (and buffers) the fast-forward works (and looks) fine, including the fact that the picture doesn't get all pixelated. With Mpeg4, it is so jumbled up that it is unviewable. And, it takes about one minute to jump ahead 10 minutes... What a pain.

The "F-type" connectors are not spec'ed for the frequencies used by DTV. Impedance [70 Ohm] is important for [any] RF signal transmission. Mismatches cause a reflections [back to the source] reducing the [forward] signal.
Now, a "compression" connector doesn't change the distance between the center conductor & the outer conductor [ground], [a crimped connector does] allowing higher frequencies to be used [than the cable/connectors were designed for]. This gets into the capacitive & inductive reactance components of impedance, but I shouldn't bore you anymore....I have had a couple of instances where
outdoor crimped connectors (joined by a barrel connector) allowed bad corrosion to the center conductor to occur, even though the junction was covered by electrical tape in the hope of making it waterproof. Why does this occur, and
will compression connectors solve the problem?

What do you mean "Catch Up"? As in Heinz Ketchup?

When I hit play after the FF fails and begins loopng, and then wait a few seconds and hit FF again, it jumps BACK to where it was looping. When I wait a minute or so, it just fast-forwards a little and then begins the looping again. Once in a great while the fast-forward doesn't go into the looping. But it is rare when it does work...

The 30-second skip ahead button does work (I think?) but when using it with Mpeg4 recordings the picture is terribly pixelated.

I've found that with Mpeg2 recordings (and buffers) the fast-forward works (and looks) fine, including the fact that the picture doesn't get all pixelated. With Mpeg4, it is so jumbled up that it is unviewable. And, it takes about one minute to jump ahead 10 minutes... What a pain.
Being dyslexic, I need to have "hands on" to understand, & my HR has been delayed until Nov. something. I'm using my media center PC [dvr] to "understand".
As I use FF [with it] the picture will "not show right" because [I think] the PC can't process the images [fast enough]. Now MPEG-4 is more compressed [than 2] which would require more "computer power" to view images. As you FF this would [could] cause the image(s) to "fall behind" the "computing capabilities" [decoding]. By FF [are there any time marks?] to a "point" & then hitting play [allowing the system to catch up to the decoding] does the picture "come in"?
This would be like the 30 sec jump, where it seems to work [slowly].

I have had a couple of instances where
outdoor crimped connectors (joined by a barrel connector) allowed bad corrosion to the center conductor to occur, even though the junction was covered by electrical tape in the hope of making it waterproof. Why does this occur, and
will compression connectors solve the problem?
You don't want to use a "barrel" for all of the same reasons as crimped connectors.
Every connector will cause a reflection. You want "home runs" from the dish to the receiver with only connectors @ either end.

I do that whenever possible, but sometimes the F81 barrels are unavoidable. Also, if you employ a grounding block, extra connectors have to be installed. The local D* installers use exterior junctions quite a bit, and their connectors don't seem to have the "corrosion" problem even though exposed to the weather. I was just wondering if compression connectors are extra waterproof or what.

I do that whenever possible, but sometimes the F81 barrels are unavoidable. Also, if you employ a grounding block, extra connectors have to be installed. The local D* installers use exterior junctions quite a bit, and their connectors don't seem to have the "corrosion" problem even though exposed to the weather. I was just wondering if compression connectors are extra waterproof or what.
1- F-type connectors are spec. to [only] 1 GHz.
2- D* is using 2 GHz.
3- D* will be moving to 4 GHz. [that little box on the back of your unit's cable connection].
4- compression connectors have a rubber seal.
5- this is all new for installers & DTV's own training video [for the new system] instructs them to use only connectors spec for these frequencies [& not to use crimp connectors].
6- does this mean every installer is "up to speed"?
7- grounding the dish will comply with the need for a grounding block.
What I said is meant to help, use it or not.

I guess my question is why didn't you?
It has been posted, several times, that you didn't need to "exchange" your units [to get the deal].
Another lesson for all of us to remember.

So I could get my local HD feeds :)

So I could get my local HD feeds :)
I meant why didn't you keep your older unit [also] as I did.

I meant why didn't you keep your older unit [also] as I did.

I could not use it... I dont have any more cable connections.


I do a have question of MPEG 2 vs MPEG 4 shows. So we know the local HD channels are MPEG 4, are the HD Network channels on channels 80 and up still MPEG2? If so, shouldnt we just record shows off those channels (the MPEG2) instead to eliminate some these problems that we are having?

I could not use it... I dont have any more cable connections.


I do a have question of MPEG 2 vs MPEG 4 shows. So we know the local HD channels are MPEG 4, are the HD Network channels on channels 80 and up still MPEG2? If so, shouldnt we just record shows off those channels (the MPEG2) instead to eliminate some these problems that we are having?

Sure, but most people don't get the network feeds as they can only get the local feeds by law.

I could not use it... I dont have any more cable connections.


I do a have question of MPEG 2 vs MPEG 4 shows. So we know the local HD channels are MPEG 4, are the HD Network channels on channels 80 and up still MPEG2? If so, shouldnt we just record shows off those channels (the MPEG2) instead to eliminate some these problems that we are having?

Yes they are mpeg2. Not everyone is able to receive them, however.

I could not use it... I dont have any more cable connections.


I do a have question of MPEG 2 vs MPEG 4 shows. So we know the local HD channels are MPEG 4, are the HD Network channels on channels 80 and up still MPEG2? If so, shouldnt we just record shows off those channels (the MPEG2) instead to eliminate some these problems that we are having?
To get "more cables" there is a multi-switch that most are using.
Your "network feeds" will be disconnected as part of an agreement D* has [now that you receive locals in HD].

To get "more cables" there is a multi-switch that most are using.
Your "network feeds" will be disconnected as part of an agreement D* has [now that you receive locals in HD].

I don't think anyone has been shut off from national hd channels yet. When everyone is using H20's and HR20's, then maybe it will happen.

I don't think anyone has been shut off from national hd channels yet. When everyone is using H20's and HR20's, then maybe it will happen.
So you didn't get the letter from D* dated May 17, 2006 then [this date is for the west coast which was the last area] ?

So you didn't get the letter from D* dated May 17, 2006 then [this date is for the west coast which was the last area] ?

I got the May letter and I got the November 1, 2006 letter. We will see what happens in 15 days. Should your DNS be shut off on Nov 1, a 5 minute discussion with D* customer retention about HR20 MPEG4 issues will get it turned back on.

I got the May letter and I got the November 1, 2006 letter. We will see what happens in 15 days. Should your DNS be shut off on Nov 1, a 5 minute discussion with D* customer retention about HR20 MPEG4 issues will get it turned back on.
I haven't got the Nov. letter [yet] but a frustrating call to D* [last time] had them say they couldn't do anything, bah, bah... but I still have the services after their date of ....

By FF [are there any time marks?] to a "point" & then hitting play [allowing the system to catch up to the decoding] does the picture "come in"?
This would be like the 30 sec jump, where it seems to work [slowly].
Firstly, there are no "marks" on the timeline with the HR20. Maybe because there is no feature to skip ahead 15 minutes at a time like you could do with a DirecTiVo receiver?

Secondly, no, the receiver does not "catch up". Most of the time, the FF button doesn't work at all. Hitting it has no effect. The picture just pauses, much like it does when you press the pause button. Hitting the FF button again it shows a x2 on the right side of the timebar. Hitting it yet again it shows x3 but as I said, the picture does NOT fast forward most of the time and the rest of the time it advances maybe 20 seconds before glitching into a repetitive loop. (Is "repetitive loop" redundent?)

The 30-second jump button works with Mpeg4 recorded programs. The picture is horribly pixelated but it does seem to work... Interestingly (to me anyways) the FF works fine with Mpeg2. It doesn't pixelate either. Nor does the Mpeg2 picture pixelate when using the 30-second jumps and with Mpeg2 the jumps seem smooth as compared to using it with a Mpeg4 recorded program.

Bottom line? It seems to me that Mpeg4 IS SIMPLY NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME. Maybe others' results and experiences differ from mine. But, Mpeg4 (as in local HD channels) is pretty much worthless. You often get glitches or programming just doesn't work way too often. Picture and audio quality of Mpeg4 in my estimation is often totally unacceptable. Granted, there are times when the Mpeg4 PQ is perfect. Just don't count on it...

Why that is --- I don't know and I would guess that the engineers at D* don't either --- or else they would have already corrected the problems. All I can say is that I am just glad that I have my DirecTiVo receivers to record primetime programs in SD. Sure SD quality is not nearly as good as the samething in HD, but when you never can tell when the HD is going to crap out on the network show --- that isn't really so important.

I haven't got the Nov. letter [yet] but a frustrating call to D* [last time] had them say they couldn't do anything, bah, bah... but I still have the services after their date of ....

Well, not all my HD receivers are MPEG4 so Directv better not turn off that feed. When it was installed, they told me that I would get to keep them. I dont think they can take them away as I was grandfathered in to their distant netwok thing. I even get the East coast feeds (NOT HD though, and not NBC). Will see...

Also, I do have a multi-switch. With the multi-switch, I am still out of cable connections.

An added note with the switch, when I had my HR20 installed, the installer was checking the sat reception on the setup screen and it was taking some time getting the 'ok' or 'pass'. So he was telling me that if it doesn't pass, the problem is the the multi-switch. He said they were alot of problems with the HR20s and multi-switches. Luckily, it all worked out.

I haven't got the Nov. letter [yet] but a frustrating call to D* [last time] had them say they couldn't do anything, bah, bah... but I still have the services after their date of ....

I guess that is what I was saying. Trying to convince a random CSR that the D* policy is wrong seems like a waste of time. They would have no effect on that policy or what the letter says. Wait until they actually shut the DNS off and call in to say that since MPEG4 locals and your DVR is not working properly that DNS should be reactivated. THAT they could do.

I guess that is what I was saying. Trying to convince a random CSR that the D* policy is wrong seems like a waste of time. They would have no effect on that policy or what the letter says. Wait until they actually shut the DNS off and call in to say that since MPEG4 locals and your DVR is not working properly that DNS should be reactivated. THAT they could do.
God, I hope you're right. I once made a change to my DNS & it screwed everything up. I was "lucky" that they [D*] were able to "undo" that change. DNS & the waviers [needed] aren't "done anymore" according to D*.

God, I hope you're right. I once made a change to my DNS & it screwed everything up. I was "lucky" that they [D*] were able to "undo" that change. DNS & the waviers [needed] aren't "done anymore" according to D*.

They are not done anymore but if you have them, you get to keep them until you cancel them. Once you cancel them, there is no going back!

Bottom line? It seems to me that Mpeg4 IS SIMPLY NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME. Maybe others' results and experiences differ from mine. But, Mpeg4 (as in local HD channels) is pretty much worthless. You often get glitches or programming just doesn't work way too often. Picture and audio quality of Mpeg4 in my estimation is often totally unacceptable. Granted, there are times when the Mpeg4 PQ is perfect. Just don't count on it....
Thanks for the "input". It is sure starting to look as if I don't want the HR-20 [and the commitment] for such a [useless] piece of Sh**.
If I want to record in SD, my pc works very well & does it with OTA HD channels too.

Bottom line? It seems to me that Mpeg4 IS SIMPLY NOT READY FOR PRIME TIME. Maybe others' results and experiences differ from mine. But, Mpeg4 (as in local HD channels) is pretty much worthless. You often get glitches or programming just doesn't work way too often. Picture and audio quality of Mpeg4 in my estimation is often totally unacceptable. Granted, there are times when the Mpeg4 PQ is perfect. Just don't count on it...

Why that is --- I don't know and I would guess that the engineers at D* don't either --- or else they would have already corrected the problems. All I can say is that I am just glad that I have my DirecTiVo receivers to record primetime programs in SD. Sure SD quality is not nearly as good as the samething in HD, but when you never can tell when the HD is going to crap out on the network show --- that isn't really so important.
Here's what I got off the other forum [though it was the wrong forum]
Can't say that it will help [feel better] you:
The last update for the HR20-700 was,
New Software 10/11/2006 -0xDC & no it did not activate OTA
Fixes

* Video playback freezing/black screen
* Loss of trick play in a currently recording program. When this occurred, the program recording would corrupt and would be unplaybe.
* Canceled programs rescheduling. (Due to higher priority shows being canceled in conflict resolution dialogs, the background process would reschedule the higher priority show)
* Find By Channel, would return results on "hidden" channels. This is NOT related to Favorites or Channels you receive.
* Recording the same show, on channels with the same channel number, would result in a corrupted recording. (Example: Trying to record the show from the HD Local and the SD Local at the same time)
* Adding extensions to a recording, via UPDATE... would not trigger conflicts.
* Caller ID - "Call your service provider", should no longer appear if you are a Caller-Id subscriber.


Improvements

* HDMI - Additional compatibility updates
* More stability fixes
* Category guide filter performance


New Features

* No new features where introduced with this version


Known Issues with release

* Pixelization During FF/RA functions. Noticeable primarily in 1080i/720p MPEG4 recordings, while FF/RW the video play pixelizes. This is due to updates with the MPEG4 code (which was changed to address other issues), the pixelizing will be corrected in a future release.
* During FF/RW motions, you may experience a LOOPING frame. The work around is to exit the FF/RW motion and use 30s SLIP, Reverse Jump, or normal playback to get past the point. This is expected to occur only with MPEG4 recordings only


Notes

* The black screen recordings should now be corrected. However, programs recorded on previous versions of the software, may still not be playable.

Thanks for the "input". It is sure starting to look as if I don't want the HR-20 [and the commitment] for such a [useless] piece of Sh**.
If I want to record in SD, my pc works very well & does it with OTA HD channels too.I might point out that the HD programming that is currently being sent out via Mpeg2 IS quite impressive and you can't get that via OTA. Now, whether that is worth the money or the hassle or the "committment" is a matter for each individual to decide. I paid several thousands of dollars for my home theater and want to be able to receive as many HD programs as I can... For example, HBO-HD or ESPN-HD, etc. I have not experienced severe problems with the Mpeg2 HD signals... and I wouldn't really want to do without them. Hopefully, in the future D* will get Mpeg4 to work and all of the additional HD programming that should be available will come in fine? In the meantime, local HD programming is NOT up to snuff IMHO. It does work some of the time, but not anything like I would desire. Audio and video glitches abound in Mpeg4.

Do I think that buggy Mpeg4 is better than no Mpeg4 at all? That's a tough one... But, I guess so, especially with my SD DirecTiVo as a backup for when the Mpeg4 stream gets screwy...

Do I think that buggy Mpeg4 is better than no Mpeg4 at all? That's a tough one... But, I guess so, especially with my SD DirecTiVo as a backup for when the Mpeg4 stream gets screwy...
Damn, you have me "back on the fence". While I don't have the same investment in my "entertainment", I have found [with the cable DVR] the "need" to pause live TV [damn cat, LOL]. For the most part, I don't record very much.
Life is full of options [and none of them are cheap (anymore}].

Damn, you have me "back on the fence". While I don't have the same investment in my "entertainment", I have found [with the cable DVR] the "need" to pause live TV [damn cat, LOL]. For the most part, I don't record very much.
Life is full of options [and none of them are cheap (anymore}].I have over 3 grand in just my plasma screen --- less than what many others have invested in larger (better?) plasmas?

The worst part is that the MAIN thing that I like to watch is Boston Legal. "Denny Crane!" :D

I've pretty much weaned myself off from all "NEWS" programs... Friends tell me of important news, when it happens. So, I avoid all the fluff and the overwhelmingly depressing bad news that they pour out. Life is better not being a CNN junkie. :)

If D* wants to really mess with my head --- all they have to do is mess up the Mpeg4 stream on Tuesday nights at 10pm. Arrrghhh! Did you see last week's show where Denny sat on Alan Shore's head? :D

Sorry... Off topic?

If D* wants to really mess with my head --- all they have to do is mess up the Mpeg4 stream on Tuesday nights at 10pm. Arrrghhh! Did you see last week's show where Denny sat on Alan Shore's head? :D
Sorry... Off topic?
I haven't checked it out, but I guess I know what I'm doing tonight @ 10

I cancelled my HR20 upgrade from a HR10 today - God bless this forum.


I might point out that the HD programming that is currently being sent out via Mpeg2 IS quite impressive and you can't get that via OTA. Now, whether that is worth the money or the hassle or the "committment" is a matter for each individual to decide. I paid several thousands of dollars for my home theater and want to be able to receive as many HD programs as I can... For example, HBO-HD or ESPN-HD, etc. I have not experienced severe problems with the Mpeg2 HD signals... and I wouldn't really want to do without them. Hopefully, in the future D* will get Mpeg4 to work and all of the additional HD programming that should be available will come in fine? In the meantime, local HD programming is NOT up to snuff IMHO. It does work some of the time, but not anything like I would desire. Audio and video glitches abound in Mpeg4.

Do I think that buggy Mpeg4 is better than no Mpeg4 at all? That's a tough one... But, I guess so, especially with my SD DirecTiVo as a backup for when the Mpeg4 stream gets screwy...

I cancelled my HR20 upgrade from a HR10 today - God bless this forum.
I think this was a wise choice. Why?
The technology isn't ready for "Prime Time". The new "smarter" algorithm [MPEG4] isn't. The Picture quality suffers from "over compression".
I'm so "old school" that I remember what a good picture looks like in analog, colors vary in smooth continuos shades. Sky is a good example of this. When MPEG-2 digitized the same picture it became "blotchy" [in SD], where my eyes could detect the color shade changes in "Blocks" loosing the smooth transition in shades.
HDTV has such high resolution that my eyes couldn't see any "blocks" in the shading.
MPEG-4 [on NBC & CBS] has shown this same "blocky" variations in shade [of a solid color background]. This is the same backward step in picture quality that MPEG-2 [SD] was to analog TV picture quality.
Tonight I viewed the same show [NCIS], live in MPEG-4 & then live in MPEG-2. Both signals didn't have any "drop outs", pixilation, or any other perceivable signal problems. I'm using a Sony 51" RPTV in 1080I and again the clarity suffers with MPEG-4. HDTV is great & why would "we" accept a step backwards?
There is no "free lunch". If you don't use all of the "bits" in a picture [to send it] you loose "something" in the picture. Hollywood would have us believe a cell phone picture can become a high resolution [NASA quality] image for reading licence plates, face recognition, etc. It just ain't so. Ask the NRO or NSA [who have great interest in this].
Now does somebody want to [again] explain to me how MPEG-4 has better picture quality [over MPEG-2]?

Operating the HR20 here in Chicagoland, I find that only the CBS and NBC MPEG4 channels have the FF & REW problems, "looping frame", etc. Perhaps their being 1080i is the reason because ABC and Fox do not have these problems on the MPEG4 feeds. Comcast SportsNet Chicago HD (MPEG4) does not have the problems either. Anyone know if that channel (640) is 1080i or 720P?

Actually I am reasonably happy with the HR20 at this stage of its development. I'll be even more pleased when OTA is activated since that will allow me to access four more local HD stations with the HR20, and will make it possible to record three programs at once.

Operating the HR20 here in Chicagoland, I find that only the CBS and NBC MPEG4 channels have the FF & REW problems, "looping frame", etc. Perhaps their being 1080i is the reason because ABC and Fox do not have these problems on the MPEG4 feeds. Comcast SportsNet Chicago HD (MPEG4) does not have the problems either. Anyone know if that channel (640) is 1080i or 720P?

Actually I am reasonably happy with the HR20 at this stage of its development. I'll be even more pleased when OTA is activated since that will allow me to access four more local HD stations with the HR20, and will make it possible to record three programs at once.
The DTV description for the HR20 is to be able to record two programs while watching a "pre recorded" program [and this is "thinking" the OTA feature works].
I think you will come up one program "short" in your recording "options".
Since 720P is "only" 1280x720, it MIGHT not suffer the PQ issue as a 1920x1080 image [does] but again it has yet to be "seen".

To Miked2023 & Veryoldschool,

Mike I think that you are making a mistake by cancelling you order. Keep the HR10 and add the HR20 to you system.

Oldschool, I know that you are trying to be helpful (thank you) and seem to be full of certain knowledge, however...

I currently have a SAT T-60 (SD TiVo), a HR10-250 (HD DVR MPEG-2), and the new HR20-700 (HD DVR MPEG-2 & MPEG-4) connected to a Samsung DLP @ 720P.

I am very pleased, let me repeat PLEASED, with everything I have. Currently I record certain shows on both the HR10 & HR20 at the same time until I am fully "trusted" in the new HR20. However I have yet to have a "non" recorded show on the HR20. The more I get used to the HR20 (mostly the remote) the more I am convinced that it is a superior unit to the HR10. Yes there are still a few quirks in this unit, however I can't remember D* doing more with any other unit to make it right (D* user since 1995) with constant upgrades (almost weekly on Tuesdays) for the new HR20.

Also, as advised by a young lady in the retention center, DO NOT say anything about your national HD network feeds you are receiving when adding a HR20. My HR10 receives the national network feeds (MPEG-2) for HD and my HR20 receives both the national (MPEG-2) and the local network (MPEG-4) feeds.

Listen, I am now trying to step on anyones toes here. You must remember that people who have a problems are the ones that sound out first and the loudest on forums such as this one. If you are (or anyone for that matter) are ready to make the move to MPEG-4, I would say DO IT.

Maybe I am just lucky. However, I don't believe it is just me. It just sounds like you may be talking yourself out of something you really want. Just my .02 cents worth.

The DTV description for the HR20 is to be able to record two programs while watching a "pre recorded" program.That statement refers to the present capability of the unit, with no active OTA tuner. On page 19 of the instruction manual, however, it states "You can record up to three programs at once (two satellite and one from an off-air antenna)." This is repeated in another section of the manual. This will not be the first satellite DVR to have this capability. I believe Dish Network brought out a DVR some time ago
that can record three simultaneous programs.

I am very pleased, let me repeat PLEASED, with everything I have. The more I get used to the HR20 (mostly the remote) the more I am convinced that it is a superior unit to the HR10. Also, as advised by a young lady in the retention center, DO NOT say anything about your national HD network feeds you are receiving when adding a HR20.
Listen, I am now trying to step on anyones toes here. If you are (or anyone for that matter) are ready to make the move to MPEG-4, I would say DO IT.
Thank you, I would "say" this is a very constructive [helpful] posting.
I am "hardware" biased, & the new units work [very] well. The issue [I have] is with the need to improve MPEG-4 so it doesn't degrade the quality of the hardware's performance. As a tech [for way too long] once I've "locked on to" a problem, I'm compelled to fix it [just the way I'm "wired"]. Technology is complex & there is so much BS [from marketing, etc] "floating around" that [half] the problem is to "get to the root" of the problem.
I moved to D* & HD almost 4 years ago. It took Sony 18 months to scrap my -200 unit & replace it with a -300, because D* gave them the wrong firmware. Sony had to completely revamp the system's architecture [hardware] to implement the correct firmware. Sometimes I "know too much". BTW firmware is code [software] that is burned into "chips" [ICs] [hardware] that require the chip(s) to be changed, where "Soft" ware can be updated without "hardware" changes.
Again, I think you have some very good points.

That statement refers to the present capability of the unit, with no active OTA tuner. On page 19 of the instruction manual, however, it states "You can record up to three programs at once (two satellite and one from an off-air antenna)." This is repeated in another section of the manual. This will not be the first satellite DVR to have this capability. I believe Dish Network brought out a DVR some time ago
that can record three simultaneous programs.
Another informative posting. I'm still waiting for Ironwood to install my HR [should have had it for a week by now] so my H-20s are my only "reference".
So far, all I've read is D*s pdf file for the HR-20, which "only" states what I said.
It is nice to hear about what is printed in the owner's manual [and I hope it wasn't a misprint].
Another helpful posting.

UncD2000 is correct. It is stated in several places that the HR20 can record up to 3 different signals at the same time while viewing a previously recorded program. However, this feature will not work until the OTA tuners are activated. Someone in this thread has stated that December is the "new" operation date for that.

Thanks veryoldschool for taking my post as it was intended. To many people here take one person opinions as an attack on them. Keep posting the techical information that you have. I for one am reading and appreciating them.

Regarding recording 3 programs at once, there are folks speculating over in DBSForum.com that the manual may be incorrect.

The truth will be known when the OTA tuners are enabled.

DTV tells me that the HR20-700 fast forward's freezing is commonly known problem and will be fized w/future update. IS THIS TRUE

DTV tells me that the HR20-700 fast forward's freezing is commonly known problem and will be fized w/future update. IS THIS TRUE

Is what true? That it is a known problem? Yes. That they will fix it with an update? Only time will tell.

Is what true? That it is a known problem? Yes. That they will fix it with an update? Only time will tell.

It will be fixed on the next update. (Per Earl Bonovich at DBS talk). THis appears to be D*s #1 priority for the next update (which makes sense givien the severity of the problem)

Is the Fast Forward Freezing common on ALL the HR20-700s or just a few? Can resettting or re-formatting the drive or getting a new HR20 be a fix in lieu of waiting on Directv to get a software fix?

Is the Fast Forward Freezing common on ALL the HR20-700s or just a few? Can resettting or re-formatting the drive or getting a new HR20 be a fix in lieu of waiting on Directv to get a software fix?
mine doesn't freeze, but after the last update it started getting quirky when ffwding mpg4 programs (no prob with mpg 2 though) I'm just recording mpg2 instead till the next update comes. oughta be pretty soon though.

Is the Fast Forward Freezing common on ALL the HR20-700s or just a few? Can resettting or re-formatting the drive or getting a new HR20 be a fix in lieu of waiting on Directv to get a software fix?

I would not reset or reformat. I have two HR20s that have never frozen or had to be rebooted. MPEG4 FF or RW causes some pixelization but otherwise has no effect on my Panny plasmas. I just ignore the inconvenience and stop the FF or RW when it gets to the desired point.

Here is a poll on the issue. 60% say their HR20 has NEVER frozen at all with any update. 40% say theirs has frozen at some point.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=692746#post692746

So, I just found out the extreme hard way that the new five LNB antenna and the HR20 don't play well with RJ-59 coax. After 6 hours and a destroyed house. Thanks Ironwood!

So, I just found out the extreme hard way that the new five LNB antenna and the HR20 don't play well with RJ-59 coax. After 6 hours and a destroyed house. Thanks Ironwood!
And what the hell happened?
RG-59 hasn't been used for so long now because of the loss.
Did it overheat with the DC power to the dish?

So, I just found out the extreme hard way that the new five LNB antenna and the HR20 don't play well with RJ-59 coax. After 6 hours and a destroyed house. Thanks Ironwood!

Do you care to elaborate?

Do you care to elaborate?
Stay tuned for the next chapter [since he's now off line]...

Do you care to elaborate?

After half a day, the Ironwood tech called his supervisor who told him that RG-59 wouldn't work. Silly me, I should have asked the experts in this forum ahead of time!

As to what happened, the phenomena was pretty interesting. When the tech measured the satellite signal on his signal meter, the signal for 101, 110 and 119 looked great - around 90. So on a pure signal strength indicator, the signal was passing thru the RG-59 without much loss. But hooking up the HR-20s was another matter. They basically saw zero signal strength and wouldn't lock on. Hugely frustrating.

So, now I get my house rewired or go back to the 3 LNB dish.

NOTE: with the HR10's and a 3 LNB dish, the RG-59 worked perfectly.

So, now I get my house rewired or go back to the 3 LNB dish.

NOTE: with the HR10's and a 3 LNB dish, the RG-59 worked perfectly.
I don't know sh**, but I can't believe they even had that cable on the truck. RG-6 has been in use so long.
Now, the dish needs power [DC] & the smaller conductor must not be able to pass enough power to the 5LNB [where the 3 LNB didn't need as many "amps"].
Then the is the "RF" signal loss of the smaller cable over long runs.
Life could be worse than "just" having to pull more wire. It sounded as if there was some sort of fire or something...
Good luck with Ironwood. Now you may know what I mean by BOZO [a clown from long ago tv].

After half a day, the Ironwood tech called his supervisor who told him that RG-59 wouldn't work. Silly me, I should have asked the experts in this forum ahead of time!

As to what happened, the phenomena was pretty interesting. When the tech measured the satellite signal on his signal meter, the signal for 101, 110 and 119 looked great - around 90. So on a pure signal strength indicator, the signal was passing thru the RG-59 without much loss. But hooking up the HR-20s was another matter. They basically saw zero signal strength and wouldn't lock on. Hugely frustrating.

So, now I get my house rewired or go back to the 3 LNB dish.

NOTE: with the HR10's and a 3 LNB dish, the RG-59 worked perfectly.

So where does the destroyed house come in?

So where does the destroyed house come in?
Can you say "over reaction"?

If the 3 lnb works ok, and the 5 doesnt, perhaps a powered multiswitch at the antenna end of the RG59 would kick up the power to the antenna for you.

If the 3 lnb works ok, and the 5 doesnt, perhaps a powered multiswitch at the antenna end of the RG59 would kick up the power to the antenna for you.
Another good thought, but I'm not sure there is anybody at "that end" who is "in control" of the situation. For all I know the other LNBs aren't even connected, nor do "we" know how far the dish is from the unit. Some "facts" would really help the troubleshooting.

Even back to the days of the first dish with only one LNB, the instructions have called for the use of RG-6 cable. The RG-59 cable also has a drop off of frequencies which will cause some stations not to work. Same problems happen when RG-59 type "splitters" are used. It just doesn't work.

The only time an RG-59 can be used successfully is using the RF antenna out on the satellite box to connect to a TV. The cable from the dish to the receiver has to be RG-6 in order to insure signal strenght and reception.

Anyway the point is, this is the way it has been since the beginning over 10 years ago (1994). It is very hard to believe that any installers still doesn't know this.

Anyway the point is, this is the way it has been since the beginning over 10 years ago (1994). It is very hard to believe that any installers still doesn't know this.
There's an unknown "wild card" with this installation "problem". For all the reasons you mentioned, something just doesn't make sense.

When I self-installed my first dish from DirecTV, it was the old oval dish with 2 LNBs (101 and 119) and a space for the third (110). I ran all RG-6 cables, but I was surprised to see that the short cables interconnecting the LNBs to the multiswitch mounted on the back of the dish were RG-59. These were furnished with the dish, in the same box.

In my experience, short lengths of RG-59 can be tolerated in the pre-KA environment. I have since moved my multiswitch indoors (with two cascaded) and some of the 6-foot or less cables from the multiswitch to my rack of receivers are RG-59, and they work fine.

But I would not even consider using RG-59 for the runs from the dish to my indoor multiswitches.

Like any other metallic transmission medium, the amount of high frequency rolloff is a function of the length of the cable.

Like any other metallic transmission medium, the amount of high frequency rolloff is a function of the length of the cable.
Absolutely correct since it [loss] is a function of wavelength.

Is the Fast Forward Freezing common on ALL the HR20-700s or just a few? Can resettting or re-formatting the drive or getting a new HR20 be a fix in lieu of waiting on Directv to get a software fix?

Just picked up an HR20 at bestbuy. After many calls to DTV it's working with a 5LNB dish. I've had very little time behind the remote so far but there is a fast forward freeze issue with my unit.

It also took DTV a while to realize i had it hooked to the sammy with HDMI and HDMI is disabled until the Nov. software upgrade, as is Optical Out.

I just got a call from D* retention.. . Apologizing for not having the units in stock and I will be put on a "priority" list, estimate install around 3 weeks from now. The original date of install was supposed to be 10/9. They felt so bad I'm going to get 7 months of free HD. oh joy!

Just picked up an HR20 at bestbuy. After many calls to DTV it's working with a 5LNB dish. I've had very little time behind the remote so far but there is a fast forward freeze issue with my unit.

It also took DTV a while to realize i had it hooked to the sammy with HDMI and HDMI is disabled until the Nov. software upgrade, as is Optical Out.
I believe you need the current software update. See the earlier posting [a page or two before this] & you will find your unit should work [better].

I just got a call from D* retention.. . Apologizing for not having the units in stock and I will be put on a "priority" list, estimate install around 3 weeks from now. The original date of install was supposed to be 10/9. They felt so bad I'm going to get 7 months of free HD. oh joy!
I hope this gives some "weight" to my rescheduled [to Nov 6] date from last weeks "install".

DTV tells me that the HR20-700 fast forward's freezing is commonly known problem and will be fized w/future update. IS THIS TRUE

It has been reported (confirmed) to be fixed in the latest update 0xec which was rolled out on the west coast this morning (approximately 4 AM). I am in Colorado but have yet to receive the update. From what I have heard they are staggering the rollout in case there are issues with it so they don't affect everyone (and this apparently is how they will continue with any new updates).

There is more info on what the update addresses on the dbstalk forums.

And yes, the FF freeze problem (only on MPEG4 streams) was introduced in the 0xdc update - so any unit running that version would have the same problem.

Firstly, there are no "marks" on the timeline with the HR20. Maybe because there is no feature to skip ahead 15 minutes at a time like you could do with a DirecTiVo receiver?

Maybe I am missing something with this comment but there are "marks" at 15 minute intervals for the recordings. Although I did not see any mention of this in the manual but if you hold the FF or REW button for 3 seconds it will jump to the next mark. Also if you hold the Advance / Replay button for 3 seconds it will skip to the start / end of the recording as well (that actually is documented in the manual).

For those that are using Harmony remotes, simply holding the FF or REW button for 3 seconds does not work. You need to hold the button for the 3 seconds, release, then press again to get the "mark" skip to work. The Advance / Replay do seem to work fine just by holding them for the 3 seconds.

I received the new software download this AM and I am on the east coast.

The FF freezing appears to be fixed and back to normal now. Also all of the trick plays as in advance fwd and jumping to the next 15 minute mark are working fine for me. So far this morning I have not found anything to complain about this latest upgrade.

Now to have other features such as OTA activated and dual tuner buffering added will be really nice. :)

Can someone elaborate about the trick plays.
A list of them,how to activate them would be most helpful

I am pleased with the OxE3 download as well. I will be very happy with the HR20 if the OTA activation includes the ability to record three shows at once as the manual states.

I removed the BBC from input 2, and it seems to have eliminated the occasional message about "searching for satellite signal on ln 2." The BBC's, which translate B band signals (250-750MHz) to 1650-2150 MHz, won't be needed until Spaceway 10 & 11 are activated next year. The HR20 is probably better off with them both removed until then.

I am pleased with the OxE3 download as well. I will be very happy with the HR20 if the OTA activation includes the ability to record three shows at once as the manual states.

I removed the BBC from input 2, and it seems to have eliminated the occasional message about "searching for satellite signal on ln 2." The BBC's, which translate B band signals (250-750MHz) to 1650-2150 MHz, won't be needed until Spaceway 10 & 11 are activated next year. The HR20 is probably better off with them both removed until then.
I'm not sure you will ever have the "three options" to record. As I mentioned the D* info was record two channels while watching a recorded program and this also says the OTA function works. Someone mentioned dish & a check of their HD DVR shows "record two" while watching a recorded program [also]. I'm afraid this [recording three] was a mistake in your manual.
Thanks for the "BBC" update. I too have had a unit "find" a sat without the box. In my case after it "found it" [once] I've installed it back [thinking it would repeat not finding the sat] & the box didn't have the problem [go figure].
Now you "have me" with the B band "250-750 MHz" since this isn't anything the Sat is using [since it's for the most part "standard UHF" TV] & could only be a "sideband" of the sat signal. Maybe I'm wrong, but for the most part, the SAT frequencies are in the 12.5 GHz range & this "upconverter" would be to convert other transponders into the receiver's range [2 GHz]. "We" used to do things like this a lot with systems for "the need to know" type customers.

Now you "have me" with the B band "250-750 MHz" since this isn't anything the Sat is using [since it's for the most part "standard UHF" TV] & could only be a "sideband" of the sat signal. Maybe I'm wrong, but for the most part, the SAT frequencies are in the 12.5 GHz range & this "upconverter" would be to convert other transponders into the receiver's range [2 GHz]. "We" used to do things like this a lot with systems for "the need to know" type customers.

From what Ive gleaned, the multiswitch in the LNB housing is going to downconvert the signal from either 99 or 103 down to the UHF band to send it down the coax with the regular KU IF, and the other KA sat. How the receiver tells the B band converter it needs the UHF signal or the KA signal I dont know.

Someone mentioned dish & a check of their HD DVR shows "record two" while watching a recorded program [also]. I'm afraid this [recording three] was a mistake in your manual.

Now you "have me" with the B band "250-750 MHz" since this isn't anything the Sat is using [since it's for the most part "standard UHF" TV] & could only be a "sideband" of the sat signal. If you browse around in the Dish section at dbstalk.com, you will find owners of the VIP622 mentioning its ability to record three programs at once. DirecTV probably wanted at least to match the capability of their competitor's unit, and thus the entries in the HR20 manual. The long delay in activating the OTA tuners may reflect problems with the recording of three simultaneous programs. The opinion at dbstalk.com seems to be that the activation will occur soon without this feature. If so, owners would have some ammunition for requesting some sort of account credits as compensation for not
having a feature promised in the manual.

Concerning the B Band Converter (BBC), the brochure that comes in the box with it does a good job of explaining its function. It says that the Ka Lo-band (B Band) at 250-750MHz must be upconverted to 1650-2150 MHz because the IRD has an input range of 950-2150 MHz. The BBC isn't needed at the moment because the Ka Lo-band will not be utilized until the national MPEG4 HD channels start up next year.

I think the BBC I removed may be defective. The little output cable rotates freely, and the other two samples I have don't do that. At any rate, removing it seems to have stopped the occasional "searching for satellite ln 2" messages.

"I'm afraid this [recording three] was a mistake in your manual."

Speaking of mistakes in the manual, what is with the HR20 manual?

I was trying (unsuccessfully) to get the new remote that I got with my HR20 to operate the volume/mute on my Denon receiver... Checked the manual for help and not only was it useless--- it points to the wrong pages regarding the remote. On the top right of page iiii of the manual, it states:

To program your remote control: 1. See "programming Your Remote Control" on Page 30.

But, Page 30 doesn't have ANY info about programming the remote... Nor does ANY page in the entire chapter. Or, maybe it is there and I just can't find it? Mad cow...

The index points to Pages 74 and 85 for the info on the remote... Curiously, the only info I could find was on Pages 76 and 77. So, you're saying "No big deal.", right? Well, maybe not except the info is absolutely useless. Quoting from the manual: "When you program the remote for the audio equipment, onscreen instructions will direct you on how to do this." Ha! Wanna bet? I did stumble across the info about the remote on Page 48 of the manual titled :Remote Control Problems". Talk about useless information... Worthless.

So, although the volume and mute on the H20 remote controls my Denon A/V receiver, the HR20 remote will not. I spent a very long time talking with a CSR and that was good for a laugh or two, because he didn't have a clue what to do to get it to work. Maybe because his computer isn't any better than the manual?

Did I mention that the Caller ID for my H20 works but the HR20 does not? They are both connected to the same phone line... Does anyone else have this problem? Or, am I the only one?

Then, I decided to find out how to operate the FFWD, PLAY, ADVANCE, RECORD, REPLAY, REWIND and PAUSE buttons... I don't know if it is operator error or maybe a bad receiver or who knows what --- but my controls do not seem to work correctly when FFWDing etc. For example, the manual states that you can press the FFWD button four times. Huh? Four? Mine seems to be a three press button...

Speaking of which, I read in a prior message about how to "jump" ahead in fifteen minute increments by pressing and holding the FFWD button. This actually works on rare occasions, but not smoothly or consistently. Also, I can't seem to get it to do Slow-Motion. What are these so-called "Trick Plays" I have read about here. rlockshin asked about them too, but no one has responded. Maybe that's why I am having problems... I'm not "tricky" enough?

Do I sound upset? Gee, sorry about that. I know the people here are not responsible for the way the HR20 works. I appreciate the way people help each other here! But, the people who post that THEIR receiver works great are of absolutely NO HELP AT ALL. Nor does it help when people point out that the reason it seems that the receiver is so lousy is because mostly people post here who are having troubles and that the VAST MAJORITY of people don't post because they have no troubles. Well, I say: Bully For Them. :D

I did think of something the manual would be useful for. Rolled up very tightly, it might serve well as kindling in my fireplace?

The online manual functions better. There are different versions of the paper manual out but they all have problems. All the navigation buttons do interesting things if you hold them down for about three seconds and those funcyions aren't mentioned.

The online manual functions better. There are different versions of the paper manual out but they all have problems. All the navigation buttons do interesting things if you hold them down for about three seconds and those funcyions aren't mentioned.Thanks for the tip, greywolf... Do you know where I can download a copy of the online manual? I didn't even know there was one. :)

Oh yeah, does anyone know how to tell the remotes for the H20 & HR20 apart from each other? I mean, how do you know whether or not you have a particular model of remote... For example the so-called manual indicates that the remote that comes with the HR20 does NOT do RF. The rmote that came with my H20 "looks" exactly like the new remote that came with the HR20. I don't see any differences anyways. Does the remote that came with my HR20 operate on RF or doesn't it? I set it up as a RF remote, maybe that is a reason why it doesn't work right?

Oops, the phone is ringing. I need to switch over from my HR20 to my H20 --- to see who is calling...

The online manual functions better. There are different versions of the paper manual out but they all have problems. All the navigation buttons do interesting things if you hold them down for about three seconds and those funcyions aren't mentioned.

These are apparently the latest version, v1_0b, but are the same at 105 pages. Do you know of a newer version?

http://www.2000networks.com/manuals/directv_HR20_user_guide_v1_0b.pdf

http://www.directv.com/see/pdf/060508HR20UserGuidev1_0b.pdf

The online manual functions better. There are different versions of the paper manual out but they all have problems. All the navigation buttons do interesting things if you hold them down for about three seconds and those funcyions aren't mentioned.

For those who don't have the inclination to read 105 pages looking for tidbits that come in handy, here is an excellent condensed 4 page guide of things the manual doesn't document or is otherwise obfuscated in the text. Credit goes to Milominderbinder2.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=67933

For those who don't have the inclination to read 105 pages looking for tidbits that come in handy, here is an excellent condensed 4 page guide of things the manual doesn't document or is otherwise obfuscated in the text. Credit goes to Milominderbinder2.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=67933
A tip of my hat to Milominderbinder2 (wonder who Milominderbinder1 is?) and to you, billt1111, for pointing me to this most helpful pdf file!

THANKS!

Question:

Am I doing something wrong, or did I misunderstand something? When I press the FFWD (or REWIND) button once it fast forwards at 1X speed. Pressed twice, it does 2X and three presses makes it fast forward at 3X. (Perfect) However, when I press it four times it does not do anything that pressing it three times doesn't do. Also, if I press the FFWD button five times it does not go back to "PLAY" like I read that it should...

Thanks.

The RF remote has an FCC tag on the back

My H20 and HR20 came with the identical RC24 remote and have the FCC tag. The model number of the remote is printed on the front at the upper left.

For those who don't have the inclination to read 105 pages looking for tidbits that come in handy, here is an excellent condensed 4 page guide of things the manual doesn't document or is otherwise obfuscated in the text. Credit goes to Milominderbinder2.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=67933My PC (running Windows ME) has apparently lost the ability to open pdf files. Could someone tell me how to enable it to do this? Thanks.

My PC (running Windows ME) has apparently lost the ability to open pdf files. Could someone tell me how to enable it to do this? Thanks.

Are you sure it had the ability to open a pdf originally?

In either case, Adobe Reader is the application that does this. Sometimes it gets corrupted or too far behind in software updates. Try going here and downloading the current free version. I would suggest unchecking the two spamware boxes before downloading. If that doesn't work I will convert it to Word for you.

http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html

As far as I can tell, since I have had the HR20 it has suffered from unwatchable recordings and lost recordings that show up as "Partial" I was optimistic that perhaps this last push of weekly bug fixes might fix this problem but nope, these bugs alive and strong in the HR20. For me both reappeared this morning in sequence of each other.

First my recording of "Meet the Press" set to record off my Local NBC MPEG4 feed did not record the history shows "Partial" and there is no recording in the list and as far as I can tell there was no conflict and I have no idea why recordings come up as "Partial"

http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6450&stc=1&d=1161542139

Second, my recording of "The Chris Matthews Show" recorded but it is unwatchable. When you try to watch it a negative time code shows up on the status bar and no trick plays, FF, 30 slip, skip to the end, etc. will make it play.
http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6449&stc=1&d=1161542139

This is not the first time I have seen these issues, I know others have as well. Please start posting them here and perhaps DirecTV will start taking serious attention that a DVR needs to be able to record with reliability. IMO it is not an unreasonable expectation that a DVR records what you tell it to with close to 100% reliability, assuming external factors don't intercede.

If you are looking for a DVR that you can trust will actualy record what you ask it to, I recomend you go looking else where, this is an on going problem for D* and after week after week of code patches this problem still is alive and strong.

From what Ive gleaned, the multiswitch in the LNB housing is going to downconvert the signal from either 99 or 103 down to the UHF band to send it down the coax with the regular KU IF, and the other KA sat. How the receiver tells the B band converter it needs the UHF signal or the KA signal I dont know.
This is what seems to be going on with the dish, coax, the upconverter, & the H 20 series units.
The three LNB dish is all that I can find specs for so this much is fact:
The A, B, C SAT’s downlinks come in @ 12.2-12.7 GHz to the dish. The LNB/multi switch downconverts [with 2 oscillators @ 11.25 & 11.5416 GHz] this signal & then outputs an IF [of 950-1450 MHz] to the receiver through the coax cable [normally spec’d to “only” 1 GHz].
Enter the 5 LNB dish [with no specs published so I can “only guess”]; which for the moment only has programming in the Ku band [my locals come from the 103 SAT, & the rest come from “the old” A, B & C SATs].
Boeing has the contract for two new Ka band SATs for 2007 [when the HD national programs will increase to 150]. This will have to be in addition to the SD programs carried currently.
Now for the upconverter [the “little box on the back”]; the Ka signal will be downconverted [@ the dish like the Ku]. Since 950-1450 MHz is being used [& the loss is greater the greater the frequency] the Ka will use 250-500 MHz through the coax cable, where the upconverter will output 1650-2150 MHz to the receiver. I’ve notice the output cable [from the upconverter] isn’t 75 Ohm. It sure looks [to me] like 50 Ohm “142” semi-flexible with a SMA connector on one end [box] & a type “F” on the other for the receiver.
If I could work with “my old” 50k of HP test equipment & spend an hour, I could tell for sure “what’s up”.
Anybody that “knows” please feel free to “fill in the blanks”.

Are you sure it had the ability to open a pdf originally?

In either case, Adobe Reader is the application that does this. Sometimes it gets corrupted or too far behind in software updates. Try going here and downloading the current free version. I would suggest unchecking the two spamware boxes before downloading. If that doesn't work I will convert it to Word for you.

http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.htmlThanks very much. That did the trick. I noticed a week or so ago that I couldn't open a file that I used to refer to occasionally, and then today the Tips and Tricks document wouldn't display.

I’ve notice the output cable [from the upconverter] isn’t 75 Ohm. It sure looks [to me] like 50 Ohm “142” semi-flexible with a SMA connector on one end [box] & a type “F” on the other for the receiver.
If I could work with “my old” 50k of HP test equipment & spend an hour, I could tell for sure “what’s up”.
Anybody that “knows” please feel free to “fill in the blanks”.My two BBC units that came with the HR20 are as you describe, and the unmarked output cable will rotate freely. The (older) BBC that came with my H20 has the output cable fixed in place so that it doesn't rotate, and that cable is marked "RG-6/U 75 Ohm coaxial cable."

Speaking of mistakes in the manual, what is with the HR20 manual?

I was trying (unsuccessfully) to get the new remote that I got with my HR20 to operate the volume/mute on my Denon receiver... Checked the manual for help and not only was it useless--- it points to the wrong pages regarding the remote. On the top right of page iiii of the manual, it states:

To program your remote control: 1. See "programming Your Remote Control" on Page 30.

But, Page 30 doesn't have ANY info about programming the remote... Nor does ANY page in the entire chapter. Or, maybe it is there and I just can't find it? Mad cow...

The index points to Pages 74 and 85 for the info on the remote... Curiously, the only info I could find was on Pages 76 and 77. So, you're saying "No big deal.", right? Well, maybe not except the info is absolutely useless. Quoting from the manual: "When you program the remote for the audio equipment, onscreen instructions will direct you on how to do this." Ha! Wanna bet? I did stumble across the info about the remote on Page 48 of the manual titled :Remote Control Problems". Talk about useless information... Worthless.

So, although the volume and mute on the H20 remote controls my Denon A/V receiver, the HR20 remote will not. I spent a very long time talking with a CSR and that was good for a laugh or two, because he didn't have a clue what to do to get it to work. Maybe because his computer isn't any better than the manual?

Did I mention that the Caller ID for my H20 works but the HR20 does not? They are both connected to the same phone line... Does anyone else have this problem? Or, am I the only one?

Then, I decided to find out how to operate the FFWD, PLAY, ADVANCE, RECORD, REPLAY, REWIND and PAUSE buttons... I don't know if it is operator error or maybe a bad receiver or who knows what --- but my controls do not seem to work correctly when FFWDing etc. For example, the manual states that you can press the FFWD button four times. Huh? Four? Mine seems to be a three press button...

Speaking of which, I read in a prior message about how to "jump" ahead in fifteen minute increments by pressing and holding the FFWD button. This actually works on rare occasions, but not smoothly or consistently. Also, I can't seem to get it to do Slow-Motion. What are these so-called "Trick Plays" I have read about here. rlockshin asked about them too, but no one has responded. Maybe that's why I am having problems... I'm not "tricky" enough?

Do I sound upset? Gee, sorry about that. I know the people here are not responsible for the way the HR20 works. I appreciate the way people help each other here! But, the people who post that THEIR receiver works great are of absolutely NO HELP AT ALL. Nor does it help when people point out that the reason it seems that the receiver is so lousy is because mostly people post here who are having troubles and that the VAST MAJORITY of people don't post because they have no troubles. Well, I say: Bully For Them. :D

I did think of something the manual would be useful for. Rolled up very tightly, it might serve well as kindling in my fireplace?
I programmed the remote to work my Denon receiver. The procedure is the same as the one in the manual for programming it to your TV except you slide the switch on the top to AV1 or AV2 and then do as it says on the screen in set up. The problem is that once you do this you will not be able to control TV volume from the remote, only the volume of the receiver, so if you don't plan to have your receiver on whenever you watch TV you can no longer control the volume of the TV.

I actually use a One for All 8910. I programmed a macro to turn on my receiver and switch to the HR20 for input. I used key mover to move the volume controls to the two fast forward and rewind buttons, the lower pair, as volume controls for the receiver. Works well for me, but my wife can't figure out what to do when she watches TV and I am not home.

My two BBC units that came with the HR20 are as you describe, and the unmarked output cable will rotate freely. The (older) BBC that came with my H20 has the output cable fixed in place so that it doesn't rotate, and that cable is marked "RG-6/U 75 Ohm coaxial cable."
The two units I have came with one that rotates & one that doesn't. The short output cables can't [from my observation] be RG-6 cable. The simple "test" would be to ask you to look @ it and compare it to the RG-6 coming from the dish. If yours is the same size, then it could be RG-6. Both of my "BBCs" have a smaller diameter cable than RG-6. Impedance [of a cable] is determined by: the diameter of the center conductor & the dielectric constant of the insulation, which determines the distance to the outer [ground] conductor. Another simple example of this is the difference in diameter between RG-59 [smaller center conductor] & RG-6 [larger center conductor].
The small cable could be 75 ohm if it was made with a different insulation with a higher dielectric constant [than what is used commonly of around "2"]. Cost is a major governing factor so [to me] it makes sense [cents] to use "off the shelf" material. If [as I think] the cable is 50 ohm [standard], it would have little [negative] effect, since the length is less than a quarter wavelength [but would have a positive with less loss]. I've worked with dielectric constants varying from "1" [air] to "10" [duriod]. D* doesn't "do anything" that isn't governed by cost [since they're dealing with millions (?) of units].

I programmed the remote to work my Denon receiver. The procedure is the same as the one in the manual for programming it to your TV except you slide the switch on the top to AV1 or AV2 and then do as it says on the screen in set up. The problem is that once you do this you will not be able to control TV volume from the remote, only the volume of the receiver, so if you don't plan to have your receiver on whenever you watch TV you can no longer control the volume of the TV.

I actually use a One for All 8910. I programmed a macro to turn on my receiver and switch to the HR20 for input. I used key mover to move the volume controls to the two fast forward and rewind buttons, the lower pair, as volume controls for the receiver. Works well for me, but my wife can't figure out what to do when she watches TV and I am not home.Maybe I have a defective receiver or remote or both... After what seemed like 72-hours on the phone with a D* tech, the remote never would "accept" the Denon AV code. I think the tech finally got so frustrated he just hung up on me? Couldn't blame him. But, it is a royal PITA not to be able to adjust the volume with the HR20 remote. Funny how the H20 receiver that I have does control the Denon's volume and was very simple to program. Leads me to believe that it's not operator error? :)

Sunday while trying to watch the TB Bucs via local Moeg4, I was sorry to find out that the HR20 remote is HORRIBLE when trying to fast forward. rewind and especially do slow motion. About 75% of the time when I held down the PLAY button, it had no effect. I've read other posts here commenting that once they got used to it, the HR20 user interface was just as good or even better than TiVo. I disagree completely. I think that the HR20's remote control of PLAY, FFWD and REW is nearly useless. Totally frustrating... I'm seriously considering giving up on the HR20. Hate to watch the game in SD but there are just way too many problems. It's difficult for me not to use expletives when describing this receiver. :D

But enough whining already...

Maybe I have a defective receiver or remote or both... After what seemed like 72-hours on the phone with a D* tech, the remote never would "accept" the Denon AV code. I think the tech finally got so frustrated he just hung up on me? Couldn't blame him. But, it is a royal PITA not to be able to adjust the volume with the HR20 remote. Funny how the H20 receiver that I have does control the Denon's volume and was very simple to program. Leads me to believe that it's not operator error? :) It's difficult for me not to use expletives when describing this receiver. :D But enough whining already...
I'm still a couple of weeks away from having your "joy". My H-20 remote has an annoying "feature" where I press [poke] a button with no response. It has pissed me off many a time. What seems to be "the problem" is I"m not pressing it hard enough [this has been "proved" by depressing the button fully (until it won't go any farther)]. What would "normally" work, sometimes doesn't. Can say why, but smashing it [the button] down until I "get what I wanted" seems to work [for me].
Still think "a two year blind commitment" to find out how good [or bad] a piece of equipment functions is a "good idea"?
Thanks for the Boston legal "tip". I'm surprised I'd missed it for so long.

I'm still a couple of weeks away from having your "joy". My H-20 remote has an annoying "feature" where I press [poke] a button with no response. It has pissed me off many a time. What seems to be "the problem" is I"m not pressing it hard enough [this has been "proved" by depressing the button fully (until it won't go any farther)]. What would "normally" work, sometimes doesn't. Can say why, but smashing it [the button] down until I "get what I wanted" seems to work [for me].
Still think "a two year blind commitment" to find out how good [or bad] a piece of equipment functions is a "good idea"?
Thanks for the Boston legal "tip". I'm surprised I'd missed it for so long.

If the "blind committment" meant that I was locked into a D* deal, no it would DEFINITELY NOT be a good idea at all. But, I maintain that if I decide that this POC (piece of _ _ _ _) is just not worth having, I will NOT hesitate to send it back and call the deal null & void. If cars have Lemon Laws, what would apply to this receiver? Grapefruit Laws? :)

I've noticed another "problem" with the RC24 remote that comes with the H20 & HR20... Quite often, when I press the wrong button the darned thing just doesn't work right. Not even if I press the wrong button over and over again. To be perfectly honest, I am guilty of this, but that's not the "main" problem with ithe FFWD, REW, and Slow-Motion not working properly/smoothly. Comparing the HR20 to a TiVo is akin to comparing a Hyundai to a Mercedes Benz. Although that comparison might not be fair to the Hyundai?

I too have noticed the "not pressing hard enough" factor when using the remote. But, is that why it doesn't work so often? Not totally sure. For example when pressing GUIDE, MENU or EXIT --- and getting no result --- happens wayyyyy too often, even when mashing on the buttons. Also, have you noticed that after you press a button and nothing happens, and then, just as you press the button again --- a time-delay kicks in and then you've double pressed it?

The more I talk the more ham-fisted I sound even to myself. :) But, in my defense, I don't have this problem with any of the other 23 A/V remotes that I use. :D

I am more and more tempted to put up a 100-foot tower so my OTA reception would work in spite of the neighbor's trees.

Hmmmmm, I wonder if a universal remote like the Logitech Harmony would work better with the HR20? Or, is the interface problem more with the receiver itself? Anyone have a Harmony who is using it with a HR20?

Once I figured out a few things (like if I search for Ranger games on Center Ice, it finds the ones on the local sports channels and records them as opposed to the ones in the 700's) I have had almost no trouble with the HR 20. I did have a few corrupt files early on that would not fast forward, but that has not been a problem since.

As for the remote, I strongly suggest a One for All 8910 or someone else's third party remote, I am most happy with mine and have no trouble programming it, using extra keys via advanced codes etc.

Well D* just called and cancelled my installation for the second time. Seems they are out of stock again....This time they didn't even reschedule my appointent. They just put me on their "priority" waiting list and said they'd let me know when they have one for me.

I did call back and let them know I wasn't real happy. Scheduled a day off work twice just to be cancelled. They gave me a couple of small credits for my trouble but nothing earth shattering.

The best part of the whole deal is they've already billed me the first installment of the charges. At least with my original $200.00 credit I'm not out of pocket anything yet.

If the "blind committment" meant that I was locked into a D* deal, no it would DEFINITELY NOT be a good idea at all. But, I maintain that if I decide that this POC (piece of _ _ _ _) is just not worth having, I will NOT hesitate to send it back and call the deal null & void. If cars have Lemon Laws, what would apply to this receiver? Grapefruit Laws? :)

I've noticed another "problem" with the RC24 remote that comes with the H20 & HR20... Quite often, when I press the wrong button the darned thing just doesn't work right. Not even if I press the wrong button over and over again. To be perfectly honest, I am guilty of this, but that's not the "main" problem with ithe FFWD, REW, and Slow-Motion not working properly/smoothly. Comparing the HR20 to a TiVo is akin to comparing a Hyundai to a Mercedes Benz. Although that comparison might not be fair to the Hyundai?

I too have noticed the "not pressing hard enough" factor when using the remote. But, is that why it doesn't work so often? Not totally sure. For example when pressing GUIDE, MENU or EXIT --- and getting no result --- happens wayyyyy too often, even when mashing on the buttons. Also, have you noticed that after you press a button and nothing happens, and then, just as you press the button again --- a time-delay kicks in and then you've double pressed it?

The more I talk the more ham-fisted I sound even to myself. :) But, in my defense, I don't have this problem with any of the other 23 A/V remotes that I use. :D

I am more and more tempted to put up a 100-foot tower so my OTA reception would work in spite of the neighbor's trees.

Hmmmmm, I wonder if a universal remote like the Logitech Harmony would work better with the HR20? Or, is the interface problem more with the receiver itself? Anyone have a Harmony who is using it with a HR20?
Maybe it would be a turnip law [as in “just fell off the turnip truck”].
I assume you have the remote set to RF mode [which would mean you don’t have to point it correctly].
As to the “wait” sometimes, I too have seen this & “just” assumed the unit was busy [doing something or other], as when you ask too much of your computer [Microsoft is getting better BUT it does like to spend time in “never never land”]. These “boxes” do [must] have some form of a processor controlling [add your own adjective] to function.
To be fair to Hyundai, you might try KIA, Daewoo, or if you’re old enough Yugo.
I doubt you would need a 100’ tower. 30’ most likely would work since TV signals aren’t anywhere near as susceptible to “foliage” as SAT signals. I get TV from 120 miles away [when the weather is good because of the three 300’ ridges in the way (I actually need it to bend down to find my antenna)]. A good antenna, preamp on a “stick” & you’re set. Oh yeah, it [OTA] looks better than from the SAT.

Well D* just called and cancelled my installation for the second time. Seems they are out of stock again....This time they didn't even reschedule my appointent. They just put me on their "priority" waiting list and said they'd let me know when they have one for me.

I did call back and let them know I wasn't real happy. Scheduled a day off work twice just to be cancelled. They gave me a couple of small credits for my trouble but nothing earth shattering.

The best part of the whole deal is they've already billed me the first installment of the charges. At least with my original $200.00 credit I'm not out of pocket anything yet.
Can you do the "Best Buy deal"? I checked this weekend & found them "in stock". I thought about getting one [fifty miles one way] but then remembered the need for a switch to have enough cables.

Can you do the "Best Buy deal"? I checked this weekend & found them "in stock". I thought about getting one [fifty miles one way] but then remembered the need for a switch to have enough cables.

Do you realize how annoying the overuse and misuse of brackets and quotations marks is?

If this has ben answered before i couldn't find it

After a week I lost all reception on my new MPEG-4 Sat. The Tech had not tightened the bolts AAAGHHH

Anyone new Tech hopefully has it back and stable. Fingers crossed

Question. Is the latest update only sent once and I will have to force it, or is sent over multiple days. My reception was null and void for the last 5 days

Thanks in advance

Do you realize how annoying the overuse and misuse of brackets and quotations marks is?

"No Chip."

{How annoying is it?}

What about italics? Do they annoy you too?

If you get annoyed at quotation marks you might consider enrolling in anger management classes... :D

I find that I am more annoyed with the HR20 than any typographical preferences.

Oh, I get it! You were just joking!

ROFL.

Can you do the "Best Buy deal"? I checked this weekend & found them "in stock". I thought about getting one [fifty miles one way] but then remembered the need for a switch to have enough cables.

I'm in the same boat. I need a multiswitch as well. Plus there are no stores in my area with one in stock. i'd have to order it online. I think I'll just wait it out.

"No Chip."

{How annoying is it?}

What about italics? Do they annoy you too?

If you get annoyed at quotation marks you might consider enrolling in anger management classes... :D

I find that I am more annoyed with the HR20 than any typographical preferences.

Oh, I get it! You were just joking!

ROFL.

What an odd response, especially considering that my post was not directed at you. Do you have feelings of persecution?

Do you realize how annoying the overuse and misuse of brackets and quotations marks is?
I guess I didn't realize how annoying my overuse, misuse of brackets, & quotation marks ARE, for you. I hope you will be able to overcome this inconvenience for you. Maybe, if it is so annoying for you, you might just skip reading my postings.
Generally, I'm trying to help with tech problems & not writing an english paper. I do try to spell & use grammar correctly to communicate my thoughts. See I can type without quotes or brackets. Does it make that much of a difference?

If this has ben answered before i couldn't find it

After a week I lost all reception on my new MPEG-4 Sat. The Tech had not tightened the bolts AAAGHHH

Anyone new Tech hopefully has it back and stable. Fingers crossed

Question. Is the latest update only sent once and I will have to force it, or is sent over multiple days. My reception was null and void for the last 5 days

Thanks in advance
Some postings have said the updates come on Tuesday AM, so you should need to wait long.

I guess I didn't realize how annoying my overuse, misuse of brackets, & quotation marks ARE, for you. I hope you will be able to overcome this inconvenience for you. Maybe, if it is so annoying for you, you might just skip reading my postings.
Generally, I'm trying to help with tech problems & not writing an english paper. I do try to spell & use grammar correctly to communicate my thoughts. See I can type without quotes or brackets. Does it make that much of a difference?

Actually, yes it does. Thanks.