Having sold my VP30 and upgraded to a Realta-based external processor (Calibre’s Vantage HD), I was curious how the Vantage would compare to one of the new Gennum VXP processors. The Crystalio II is an attractive unit, but at $4500 it was just to pricey for my budget. Optoma has just released the Gennum-based HD3000, and with an MSRP of $2999 (street prices are likely to be much lower), this just about fits the bill.

My impressions of the image quality obtainable from this box are similar to what Bob Sorel reported about his Gennum-based Crystalio II. Compared to the Vantage HD, I thought that the SD film-based deinterlacing was better. With the Vantage, I slightly prefer the 480p output of my Panasonic S97. With the Optoma, I slightly prefer the 480i output. I thought that the SD video-based deinterlacing was comparable. If there was a difference between the Vantage and Optoma in this regard, I couldn’t easily discern it. Either one of them kicks the hell out of the VP30, prior to the ABT card anyway. On film-based material, the performance of the VP30 is very close to the Optoma, with the Vantage bringing up the rear.

In fact, if all you intend to watch is SD film sources (DVD movies), then the performance of a good progressive scan DVD player will get you virtually all you would ever want. Deinterlacing 480i film-based sources is a very mature technology and there’s just not a lot of extra performance here to be had. This is one reason why I don’t have a lot of patience for endless discussions about HDMI, SDI, and upscaling on DVD players. These features make a barely-perceptable difference to picture quality. On the other hand, a DVD player that has a poor deinterlacer (this is getting more rare) or poor core video performance can make a real difference. I’ve looked at A LOT of DVD players and I have yet to find one that throws a better image than the Panasonic S97. The component output on this unit offers better performance to my eyes than the HDMI output. In any case, I digress.

Where external processors really shine is with HD material. I have already posted my very positive impressions of the Vantage’s HD performance, both for film and video-based material. I was also impressed with what I saw with the Optoma. However, like Bob, I thought that the Vantage has a small, but perceptible, edge here. HD images from HBO or Showtime reveal just a little more pop, depth, and realism when processed by the Vantage HD. The Optoma kicks the hell out of the VP30 in this regard, but it’s not quite as stunning a performer as the Vantage.

Perhaps the main reason I purchased the Optoma was that I was interested to see how well its rather extensive calibration features worked. It includes a full compliment of RGB Gains and Biases for gray scale calibration, a gamma adjustment tool, and most importantly, a comprehensive color management system that allows a calibrator to tweak saturation and hue of the primary and secondary colors. The gamma and gray scale controls are quite straightforward, but the color management controls are rather complicated to use and did not perform exactly as I had expected. I thought that one could use these controls to adjust the color definitions of RGBCMY to obtain a perfect CIE chart. They don’t work that way. They should be used only to ensure accurate color decoding. If you go to the color decoding chart in Avia and see that red is pushed, for example, you can use this tool along with Avia’s red color bar to eliminate red push. You can make similar adjustments to green and blue to get very accurate color decoding. But even after this you may still find that one or more of the colors still does not fall on its expected xy point on a CIE chart. For example, when I finished making adjustments Red was still oversaturated, though its hue was correct.

Another aspect of this tool that is maddenly complex is that each control has 15 separate levels of adjustment. These levels are like the IRE range. For the life of me I cannot think what function this serves. Why, for example would you want to adjust bright blue’s hue, but leave dark blue’s hue alone? Also, the only way to adjust these controls properly is against a test pattern, which of course has its own level of brightness. It took me a while to figure out that only one level of brightness on the adjustment menu (Level 6) would work with the test pattern. Once correctly adjusted, you must manually adjust all of the other 14 levels of that color’s hue or saturation to the same point. Optoma made this much more complicated than is necessary. All that is needed is global RGB saturation and global RGB hue controls. Extra controls for the secondaries and different levels of intensity for each color serve no obvious purpose that I could make out. RGBCMY hue and saturation controls for the color points would have been really useful, but these controls just don’t work that way.

One other issue bears mentioning. Be sure that you set the correct level of black in the Signal menu. The option is labeled Pedestal. My component Comcast cable feed was expecting 7.5 IRE, but the Optoma was initially set at 0. Until I changed this, the image looked washed out. You can correct for this using the Brightness control without changing this setting, but it requires getting a pluge pattern to work against that equals your broadcast input, which is not always easy to do.

Potential buyers should be aware that the HD3000 has only one HDMI output. This may be a problem for some setups where a analog connection to the display might be useful or even preferable.

The last test I had planned to do was with the Toshiba HD DVD player. I plugged in the HDMI cable, turned on the Toshiba, and then selected HDMI 1 on the Optoma. NO SIGNAL. In fact, I could not get ANY of the HDMI inputs to work using either the Toshiba or the Comcast cable box digital output. When I switched back to the Vantage HD they all worked as expected. So either the HD3000 has some serious HDCP issues or my unit is defective. I’ll post back when I know more about this.

So what’s the bottom line? The HD3000 is very well built. It looks and feels much more substantial than the Vantage HD. It provides excellent performance for both SD and HD sources, film and video. It has a very friendly user interface and a nice remote control. It also includes a comprehensive set of calibration tools, though they could be easier to use. Finally, its likely street price makes it a real bargain. However, I think I prefer the Vantage HD. The high-definition images it provides are simply too seductive to give up. However, I think the performance of the Optoma is more balanced across the board.

As an ISF calibrator, I would like to recommend the HD3000 to clients who have displays that lack the necessary calibration controls. If my HDMI problems are not indicative of a more general problem (I’m hoping that this unit is just a lemon), then I can highly recommend this device.

Edit: I heard back from Optoma technical support and the HDMI input problem is solved. This one was my fault. There is a AV Receiver loop in the processor that has to be completed for the HDMI inputs to work. There's a HDMI connection labeled "To HDMI Receiver" and another labeled "From HDMI Receiver". The purpose of this is to route a digital signal with audio through a HDMI-enabled receiver which then strips out the audio signal and sends the video back to the Optoma for processing. If, like me, you don't have an HDMI-enabled receiver, then you must complete this loop with a short HDMI cable included in the processor's packaging.

This is not a bad idea, though I can't help but think that Optoma could avoid a lot of technical support contacts if this loop was completed by default. In any case, this IS documented in the manual and I just missed it.

HD-DVD looks great via HDMI, though as before I continue to prefer the Vantage HD here.

Thanks Tom for a great review!

Thanks, Tom!

Thanks Tom for great writeup.
Have you compared Optoma with Lumagen HDQ & if so what are your observations? I have narrowed my search down to Lumagen HDQ & Optoma HD3000 after selling my VP30 recently. I am mainly looking for HD deinterlacing/scaling for broadcast HD & HD-DVD to a 720p display(Infocus 7200). At this point Lumagen HDQ seems like a more stable unit with good bang for the buck.

My question as well. I am so close to pulling the trigger on the HDQ. Only one HDMI out does seem limiting. I also like to have a component out option as well. How is the cadence detection (Gennum VXP 9351) issue Greg Rogers reported in a review of a Marantz PJ with Gennum VXP scaler? ANd again I apologize for repeating myself but does anyone think Optoma will be on top of firmware upgrades for its clients? We are used to DVDO, Lumagen and others with timely firmware upgrades. I like the fact of a Gennum scaler but Greg's review on the HDQ was very solid. In fact he said it was the best picture he had seen in a home theater. I mainly watch 1080i sources so that is most important to me (which is why I sold my VP30)...

Did the final version get a 1366x768 output option for plasmas? If so, can the timings and proch settings be changed for various different plasmas?

I'll try to answer some questions.

****************************************
Have I compared the Optoma with a Lumagen HDQ?
Not personally, but so much has been writen about the Lumagen, I *feel* like I know it. From what I can gather, the Lumagen's SD and HD film performance will be comparable to the Optoma, but the Optoma will do better with both SD and HD video-based sources. The downside of the Lumagen is a clunky user interface and DVI inputs (no HDMI), though you can use HDMI-DVI adaptors.

Did I notice the same deinterlacing artifacts that Greg Rogers noticed in his just-available review of the new Marantz 1080p PJ w/Gennum processing?
For those not familiar with this, Greg writes the following: "I was disappointed that it [the Marantz] would not lock onto the AVIA Pro 3-2 motion test pattern during the slowest vertical movement, although it worked fine for diagonal and circular movement."

I saw this too, although I don't think it was a bad as it sounds. This pattern begins very slow and then speeds up gradually in 15 increments. For some reason the Gennum processing does not lock onto the first (slowest) of the 15, but the remaining 14 look OK. What happens is that when the pattern first begins, you see pretty severe moire, but when it goes to the next level it locks and then it is fine after that. Strange. I saw no problems using the HQV Benchmark DVD.

Does it have output settings for plasma?

Here are the relevant settings
http://home.comcast.net/~tlhuffman/resolutions.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~tlhuffman/settings.jpg

BTW, there is one scaling issue I ran across that I forgot to mention. With the Vantage and the VP30, when I select my component broadcast cable source I set the aspect ratio at 4x3. This works for all channels, because 4x3 is correct for SD channels and the HD channels would force 16x9 regardless of what the scaler was set at. Well, the Optoma doesn't work that way. If I have it set at 4x3, ALL channels--HD included--appear in a 4x3 window. It's the same for 16x9. It has a setting called "Native" that sounded promising, but yields strange results. The effect is you have to change the aspect ratio when you go from SD to HD channels. Annoying.

I dont know if that will be "good enough" to work with all plasmas. Not a single scaler I have tested or used has had a 1366 x 768 setting that worked out of the box NONE. Not the vp-30, not the Lumagen and not the new Crystalio. Good news is that they all had the ability to tweak the porch settings to make 1366 work. I would like to know if this can be done with the Optoma piece.

I saw this too, although I don't think it was a bad as it sounds. This pattern begins very slow and then speeds up gradually in 15 increments. For some reason the Gennum processing does not lock onto the first (slowest) of the 15, but the remaining 14 look OK. What happens is that when the pattern first begins, you see pretty severe moire, but when it goes to the next level it locks and then it is fine after that. Strange. I saw no problems using the HQV Benchmark DVD.
The reason the AVIA pattern behavior concerns me is that it shows a basic weakness in the motion detection algorithm, which will sometimes cause inverse-telecine deinterlacing to fail during slow vertical movement of closely spaced horizontal lines. We are acutely aware of line twitter when it occurs on slowly moving images. This is a classic problem for motion-detection algorithms, and it's very disappointing that an old part like the Silicon Image SiI-504 gets it right, but a "state-of-the-art" part like the Gennum fails.

Thanks Greg! You have made it easier for many of us to make our next scaler decision. I am looking forward to next weekends movie night! With HD DVD and a HDQ!

doesn't look like it has the minimal capabilities necessary for custom timing.

Great review!

@Greg, did you have a chance to check out the ABT102 deinterlacing yet?

@Greg, did you have a chance to check out the ABT102 deinterlacing yet?
Yes, but I don't want to comment on it yet. Hopefully in a couple of weeks.

Yes, but I don't want to comment on it yet. Hopefully in a couple of weeks.
Ok, thanks!

Tom, thank you very much for your review.

May I ask you to rate the "picture enhancement" features of the Optoma for me. I would like to hear your take on the quite sophisticated "Edge Enhancement" and Vividness filters. How much better are they compared to the usual sharpness/saturation filter? What are the drawbacks (outlining...)? Thanks.

I would like to hear your take on the quite sophisticated "Edge Enhancement" and Vividness filters. The Vividness feature is the color decoding adjustment I've already described. It's not very well labeled.

I took a look at the Edge Enhancement feature, and I must say that this feature bewilders me. It has 3 settings: Off, User, and 5 presets. I tested these against a still frame of Nicholas Cage standing on the top step of the Lincoln Memorial against a background of sky in "National Treasure," one scene I had specifically remembered as displaying especially nasty edge enhancement. All any of the presets did was incrementally INCREASE the already existing halos. The Off setting looked the best: i.e., it didn't add any edge enhancement. Someone needs to explain to Optoma, that edge enhancement is a bad thing we want to get rid of, not some "feature" we want to add more of. As for the user setting, like the color decoding adjustment it was unnecessarily complicated, except this time I was unable even to figure out how it works. It has 6 adjustments (Ref Mode, High/Low Coring, High/Low Width, and Strength), each of them apparently interactive with all of the others.

The "manual" is useless in describing how to use this very complex tool. In fact, the manual reads like it was written by someone who never talked to the engineers who designed this device and took no time attempting to figure out much less explain how its many features work. I should have mentioned this in my original review. The manual is a disgrace, and a good example of why people generally ignore technical documentation.

I am still waiting for a response from Optoma about why I can get no signal from the HDMI inputs.

To follow-up on something I mentioned in my original review, since I could not get the HDMI input to work, the only HD content I had tested was from broadcast cable. I had calibrated the DVD input and proceeded on the mistaken assumption that these settings were transferable to the other YPbBr input I used for Comcast content. WRONG. It required an independent calibration. The saturation, tint, and black levels were all different. Once I calibrated these levels, HD content looked even better. In fact, it was starting to look a lot like what I got from the Vantage HD. I still preferred the HQV solution, but now by only a very small margin.

Also, upon reflection, I'm a little less impressed with the Optoma's calibration tools. The color decoding and gray scale adjustments are great, but it has no test patterns and no adjustment for y/c delay. The VP30 has both of these.

I guess this makes my choice of getting Lumagen HDQ even more justifiable.

I already ordered my HDQ today! :)

Can anyone figure out whether the HD-3000 can accept these HDMI input formats:

8 bit RGB
8 bit YCbCr 4:4:4
10bit YCbCr 4:2:2

I couldn't tell from the manual?

Cheers, Nick

Also can it accept 480i and 576i over HDMI?

Also can it accept 480i and 576i over HDMI?It sure does.

Wouldn't be much point having a video processor if it didn't. (Someone ought to tell NEC!)

Nick

HD3000 User’s Guide
Professional Video Scaler and Color Management System
Connector Detailing
Input Connectors:
Video 1: CVBS.
Video 2: CVBS.
Video 3: CVBS.
SVideo 1: S Video.
SVideo 2: S Video.
SVideo 3: S Video.
HD1: YPbPr through RCA connectors. Supports 480i/576i, 480p/576p, 720p, 1080i.
HD2: YPbPr through RCA connectors. Supports 480i/576i, 480p/576p, 720p, 1080i.
HD3: YPbPr through BNC connectors with HV BNC connectors. Supports 480i/576i,
480p/576p, 720p, 1080i, and SCART RGB.
HD4: YPbPr through BNC connectors with HV BNC connectors. Supports 480i/576i,
480p/576p, 720p, 1080i, and SCART RGB.
HDMI1: Receive from HDMI source and then switch to HDMI-out (To AV receiver) connector.
HDMI2: Receive from HDMI source and then switch to HDMI-out (To AV receiver) connector.
HDMI3: Receive from HDMI source and then switch to HDMI-out (To AV receiver) connector.
HDMI-in (From AV receiver) : Supports
(1)Video: 720(1440)x480i@59.94/60Hz, 640x480p@59.94/60Hz,
720x480p@59.94/60Hz, 720(1440)x576i@50Hz, 720x576p@50Hz,
1280x720p@59.94/60Hz, 1920x1080i@59.94/60Hz
(2)Audio: Linear PCM audio.
VGA-in:
Output Connector:
HDMI-out (To AV receiver): Switch 3 HDMI source to one HDMI output; this output can be
connected to “AV receiver” device or HDMI-in (From AV receiver) connector.
HDMI-out to display device
Other connectors:
RS232: one connector for firmware upgrading, debugging and remote control.

Given the MSRP of 2999 I am even more happy I ordered the HDQ... So much for them being comparable in pricing to DVDO... :rolleyes:

Given the MSRP of 2999 I am even more happy I ordered the HDQ... So much for them being comparable in pricing to DVDO... :rolleyes:
Good choice, and very happy for you, but this is an Optoma thread!

Nick

I mentioned the fact that they (HD3000) were supposably going to be priced with the DVDO VP30. Is that not a relevant statement about the Optoma product?

With the help of Optoma technical support I have resolved the HDMI problem and edited my original post accordingly.

The Vividness feature is the color decoding adjustment I've already described. It's not very well labeled.

I took a look at the Edge Enhancement feature, and I must say that this feature bewilders me. It has 3 settings: Off, User, and 5 presets. I tested these against a still frame of Nicholas Cage standing on the top step of the Lincoln Memorial against a background of sky in "National Treasure," one scene I had specifically remembered as displaying especially nasty edge enhancement. All any of the presets did was incrementally INCREASE the already existing halos. The Off setting looked the best: i.e., it didn't add any edge enhancement. Someone needs to explain to Optoma, that edge enhancement is a bad thing we want to get rid of, not some "feature" we want to add more of. As for the user setting, like the color decoding adjustment it was unnecessarily complicated, except this time I was unable even to figure out how it works. It has 6 adjustments (Ref Mode, High/Low Coring, High/Low Width, and Strength), each of them apparently interactive with all of the others.

The "manual" is useless in describing how to use this very complex tool. In fact, the manual reads like it was written by someone who never talked to the engineers who designed this device and took no time attempting to figure out much less explain how its many features work. I should have mentioned this in my original review. The manual is a disgrace, and a good example of why people generally ignore technical documentation.

I am still waiting for a response from Optoma about why I can get no signal from the HDMI inputs.

To follow-up on something I mentioned in my original review, since I could not get the HDMI input to work, the only HD content I had tested was from broadcast cable. I had calibrated the DVD input and proceeded on the mistaken assumption that these settings were transferable to the other YPbBr input I used for Comcast content. WRONG. It required an independent calibration. The saturation, tint, and black levels were all different. Once I calibrated these levels, HD content looked even better. In fact, it was starting to look a lot like what I got from the Vantage HD. I still preferred the HQV solution, but now by only a very small margin.

Also, upon reflection, I'm a little less impressed with the Optoma's calibration tools. The color decoding and gray scale adjustments are great, but it has no test patterns and no adjustment for y/c delay. The VP30 has both of these.


Tom, thanks for looking into it. Two things I would like to say: The vividness feature is something simular to color saturation / TI brilliant color -> you can choose to increase color "vividness" in steps with it -> and Optoma is claiming better results than "normal" saturation controls. Would you mind checking it and comparing those two.

About the "edge enhancement" feature -> looking at some white papers about the integrated "picture enhancement chip" which integrates this EE function I came to the conclusion that this is very simular to the popular "Limited Sharpen" approach (see HTPC/Doom9 forum about it). What it is supposed to do is sharpen the picture (texture detail enhancement and edge sharpening) while LIMITING the resulting halos. Your test is completely invalid as you took a picture which already had edge enhancement/halos applied to it. That way the sharpening algorithm is taking the existing halo as high contrast fine picture detail and is naturally pronouncing/increasing it (as it would with any other picture detail as this is the purpose of any sharpening filter). PLEASE take a look at a scene with NO edge enhancement/Halos whatsoever and see how bad/severe the halos ADDED by the sharpening filter really are? And avoid to use DVDs - the upscaling alone adds halos to the picture. Perfect test would be a clean HD-DVD input!

Thank you very much!!! Kind regards.

The "Vividness" control does not have a vividness adjustment. It only has saturation and hue adjustments across 15 steps of brightness or intensity. Just how would I go about testing this? The only thing I know to do is make adjustments against a test pattern, which is what I've done. I reported the results. I was able to achieve almost perfect color decoding. If you have some other approach, let me know and I'll try it.

As for the Edge Enhancement feature, I guess I could look at some clean material using the presets. As I said before, I don't see how the User option is supposed to work. Based on your description, it sounds like the Edge Enhancement feature is similar to the "Detail" adjustment on the Vantage HD. If so, this is a good example of the unnecessarily complicated approach that the Optoma takes. On the Vantage, you just have a Detail slider, not a control with six interactive variables.

The "Vividness" control does not have a vividness adjustment. It only has saturation and hue adjustments across 15 steps of brightness or intensity. Just how would I go about testing this? The only thing I know to do is make adjustments against a test pattern, which is what I've done. I reported the results. I was able to achieve almost perfect color decoding. If you have some other approach, let me know and I'll try it.

As for the Edge Enhancement feature, I guess I could look at some clean material using the presets. As I said before, I don't see how the User option is supposed to work. Based on your description, it sounds like the Edge Enhancement feature is similar to the "Detail" adjustment on the Vantage HD. If so, this is a good example of the unnecessarily complicated approach that the Optoma takes. On the Vantage, you just have a Detail slider, not a control with six interactive variables.

Tom, I take it from the HD3000 manual that "Color Vividness" in the Image/Advanced menu provides 3 presets and user mode adjustment - just like EE. I was hoping that you can find out how the presets work out for you - in comparison to the "saturation" slider. Thanks.

I take it from the HD3000 manual that "Color Vividness" in the Image/Advanced menu provides 3 presets and user mode adjustment - just like EE. I was hoping that you can find out how the presets work out for you - in comparison to the "saturation" slider. I don't know, maybe I'm anal retentive about this, but I was able to dial in nearly perfect saturation and hue by adjusting the User controls. I can't see any advantage to using the presets instead. It can't get any better than what it is already. There is only one level of saturation that is correct, so changing from its current setting would be a step backwards.

I don't know, maybe I'm anal retentive about this, but I was able to dial in nearly perfect saturation and hue by adjusting the User controls. I can't see any advantage to using the presets instead. It can't get any better than what it is already. There is only one level of saturation that is correct, so changing from its current setting would be a step backwards.

Tom, you are certainly right about that. I was just trying to find out how the vividness function/preset works in comparison to the standard saturation control.

Anyway, a review of the EE-sharpening function together with good, clean HD-DVD input would be very much appreciated. Thank you.

In fact, if all you intend to watch is SD film sources (DVD movies), then the performance of a good progressive scan DVD player will get you virtually all you would ever want. Deinterlacing 480i film-based sources is a very mature technology and there’s just not a lot of extra performance here to be had. This is one reason why I don’t have a lot of patience for endless discussions about HDMI, SDI, and upscaling on DVD players. These features make a barely-perceptable difference to picture quality. .

What screen size are you using? I have a hard time believing that you're seeing very little difference between 480i deinterlaced via SDI, than 480P via whichever connection.

92"

92"

Wow, so much for the small-screen theory.

Well I'm sure you've already argued your point in the past, and I sure don't have the time to worry about it. :D

The reason the AVIA pattern behavior concerns me is that it shows a basic weakness in the motion detection algorithm, which will sometimes cause inverse-telecine deinterlacing to fail during slow vertical movement of closely spaced horizontal lines. We are acutely aware of line twitter when it occurs on slowly moving images. This is a classic problem for motion-detection algorithms, and it's very disappointing that an old part like the Silicon Image SiI-504 gets it right, but a "state-of-the-art" part like the Gennum fails.

Don't worry Greg, Gennum processing can pass that test, it's just a matter of perference, at least on the Crystalio II that is! Sorry for the OT.

regards,

Li On

Don't worry Greg, Gennum processing can pass that test, it's just a matter of perference, at least on the Crystalio II that is! Sorry for the OT.
Have you tested the Crystalio II with the AVIA Pro 3-2 Motion test pattern?

So is this glitch the end of all ends regarding the Gennum product? I never saw severe problems with deinterlacing with what I had to test (no Aiva pro). The Film detail test on the HQV DVD picked up super fast/immediate and pixel contrast was clean.

Probably something a simple firmware can fix maybe yes or no?

I was thinking of buying the scaler.

hello - anyway, do somebody see the result of a toshiba HD A1 with the optoma ? - the PQ is it equal to the vantage or not ? - thanks

best regards

P231

HD-DVD looks great via HDMI, though as before I continue to prefer the Vantage HD here.The difference is small, but I still think that the HQV solution has a slight edge here.

Does the HD3000 offer a custom output aspect ratio (in addition to a fixed 4:3, 16:9 and 2.35:1 solution)?

No, it only offers a fixed number of presets.

Thanks Tom, that's unfortunate but workable for constant height setups.

Does the HD3000 offer a custom output aspect ratio (in addition to a fixed 4:3, 16:9 and 2.35:1 solution)?

Also with the available 4.3, 16.9, Letterbox, Native you can shrink the images with the blanking feature which will do all sides. I forget how many pixels you can blank but it could come in handy if you have an off screen size.

Is anyone aware through what method the included hd81's hd3000 scaler performs 2.35:1 CH of letterboxed material? Is it similar to either one or the other method discussed in the "No anamorphic Blu Ray/HD DVD 2.35:1" (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=652716&page=3) thread concerning the Lumagen's scaling for 2.35:1 aspect ratio material? Does it allow for both methods of scaling or does it default to just one? Is there anything on the hd3000 that detects in a moment (at a button press) either the actual pixel and topl and botl's it, or perhaps just vertically stretching the active pixel area by 1.33333?

edit: my questions focus specifically on high definition material and I am curious as to if anyone asked a optoma engineer the specifics behind how the hd3000 goes about scaling 2.35:1 HD DVDs embedded resolutions of 1920x800 to full panel. Does it downscale to 1440x800 and then upscale or does it take the 1920x800 and do a straight upscale via vertical stretch? Lumagen's can be configured to perform either method of stretch, however the 2nd method discussed is still currently largely in the woodwork because an update allowing for autodetection of active pixels and vertical stretching on the fly 1.33x that active information has not yet been released (only promised so far).

I see this problem as distinctively new as it is effected by the embedded letterboxing on HD DVDs (formated for 16:9 screens - god, this was a horrible idea for us 2.35:1 CH'ers, we wanted full film resolution hd dvds 1920x1080 that were then formated with blackbars based on the output setting on the hd dvd player!) but through method two, we are able to preserve the most resolution for the upscaling stretch process instead of the downscale to 1440x800 before the 'zoom' upscale to full panel.


Does the hd3000 have the ability for either method or just one? And if it's only just one (and the bad one), does anyone know if optoma would plan on creating a fix for this? Is their scaler customer support as good as Lumagen's as far as creating (sometimes custom) fixes to their customers scaling problems?

BTW, I'd like to point out that now that the HD3000 has been on the market for a while resellers have begun to discount it. You can now obtain it for not much more than 2k at some online outlets and I'm sure AVS would quote a very attractive price as well.

I mention this because it was nearly 3k when I first evaluated it. I thought it was a good buy then, but at this lower price I now think it's a real bargain, perhaps the best bang-for-the-buck processor now available.

BTW, I'd like to point out that now that the HD3000 has been on the market for a while resellers have begun to discount it. You can now obtain it for not much more than 2k at some online outlets and I'm sure AVS would quote a very attractive price as well.

I mention this because it was nearly 3k when I first evaluated it. I thought it was a good buy then, but at this lower price I now think it's a real bargain, perhaps the best bang-for-the-buck processor now available.


Tom,

Thanks for the update. I've been on the fence for a while regarding a video processor. My setup is PS3, HD-A2, and HD-DirecTv feeing into a 4X2 and then onto my Optoma HD7100(720p) and a Sony LCD. Does the HD3000 do a proper 1080i -> 720p? I thought I read somewhere that it doesn't, but I've read so many threads I could be confused.

Are you familiar w/ the Key Digital Products? They are running a power buy on the KD-HDMI4X1. It's hard to find information on the product, but the price is right. Since it is a final sale, I'm cautious to pull the trigger.

Also, I was considering trying to find a used Lumagen HDQ.

Mostly, I watch movies and OTA HD sports on the 7100. Do you have an opinion on the three processors that would work best for my setup?

Thanks,
Don

Does the HD3000 do a proper 1080i -> 720p?It does an excellent job with this.
Are you familiar w/ the Key Digital Products?Not directly. However, the reviews have been decent and the current close-out price certainly is attractive. I'd lean towards the Optoma only because I have direct experience with it and it's NOT a close-out.

Also, I was considering trying to find a used Lumagen HDQ.The Lumagen has some nice calibration features (though so does the Optoma), it has very clean scaling, and it does inverse telecine for 1080i sources. The problem with the Lumagens is that the deinterlacing is now quite behind the standards set by the competition.

Has there been any firmware updates for the HD3000 since it was released?

Has 1080p24 HDMI output been added?

Do any of you know if it will accept 1080p24 on HDMI?

I appreciate it's a sensitive subject, but, do the aspect ratio control/image zoom features allow elimination of horizontal bars for 1.85/2.35:1 AR widescreen images displayed on a 16:9 screen? (does it really have an asymmetrical zoom of 1.3x horiz. and 1.2x vert.?)

What we need is a highend processor with open source software.

Any manufacturer who will release that will get my money.

Unfortunately the chip companies wont allow it.
Pixel Magic were asked if they could open up the HD MediaBox to open source and they apparently had looked into it and Sigma wouldn't allow it.
I'm betting Gennum, Genesis and SiI are even more protective.
There are too many other licences to deal with too HDMI/HDCP being one I imagine would be hard to get.

Basically, the closest you are going to get is an HTPC with FFDshow/DScaler and other seperate open source projects.

It does an excellent job with this.
Not directly. However, the reviews have been decent and the current close-out price certainly is attractive. I'd lean towards the Optoma only because I have direct experience with it and it's NOT a close-out.

The Lumagen has some nice calibration features (though so does the Optoma), it has very clean scaling, and it does inverse telecine for 1080i sources. The problem with the Lumagens is that the deinterlacing is now quite behind the standards set by the competition.


Thanks Tom. I appreciate the response.

Is there actually an audio delay in the feedback to the audio receiver?

I am getting some heavy video delay due to the processing. (On my HD81)

Can anyone comment on the optoma hd3000 in a set-up with a pansonic ph9 42" plasma(or 50"). Can get one for $1300(1100 euro) in the Netherlands. A dvdo vp30 with abt card costs around $2100 over here.

guys, lets steer away from pricing discussions.

Has there been any firmware updates for the HD3000 since it was released?

Has 1080p24 HDMI output been added?

Do any of you know if it will accept 1080p24 on HDMI?

Has there been any confirmation for this issue? It outputs 1080@48 Hz which seem to be sufficient, but how about the input options?

Or has the whole processor already been forgotten? :)

Has there been any confirmation for this issue? It outputs 1080@48 Hz which seem to be sufficient, but how about the input options?

Or has the whole processor already been forgotten? :)

It is a shame, but it seems that Optoma is not very interested in selling and suporting this unit as a stand-alone VP. The unit is also bundled with higher end Optoma projectors, so the might be some firmware updates, but I am not sure. I jumped on the DVDO VP50 instead of the HD3000.

Optoma now offers a firmware upgrade that will support 1080p/24, but you have to send it in to Optoma to get it done.

Has there been any confirmation for this issue? It outputs 1080@48 Hz which seem to be sufficient, but how about the input options?

Or has the whole processor already been forgotten? :)

Thanks for the information. This seems to be almost an obligatory update for HD3000.

Does anyone know if the HD3000 will pass LPCM audio over HDMI to a receiver?

Cheers, Nick

Yes, it is specifically designed to pass the HDMI audio signal to a receiver. It has a "To AV Receiver" "From AV Receiver" loop that routes the signal to the receiver for audio before the HD-3000 applies its own processing to the video signal.

See page 9 of the user manual for a description of this feature.

http://www.optomausa.com/PDFs/usermanuals/Optoma_HD-3000_User_Manual.pdf

Great review...thanks!

Yes, it is specifically designed to pass the HDMI audio signal to a receiver. It has a "To AV Receiver" "From AV Receiver" loop that routes the signal to the receiver for audio before the HD-3000 applies its own processing to the video signal.

See page 9 of the user manual for a description of this feature.

http://www.optomausa.com/PDFs/usermanuals/Optoma_HD-3000_User_Manual.pdf Thanks for the reply, Tom. I don't expect anyone to do my research for me. I downloaded and read the latest manuals from the Calibre, Lumagen, DVDO and Optoma websites today. Only the latter was not clear about what audio is carried. Calibre specifically state the Vantage doesn't carry LPCM, whereas the VP50 & Radiance do.

Optoma don't say, which suggests to me that their HDMI interface is just V1.0, and carries only DD & DTS. If it took LPCM, I think they would have made that clear. That seems to be the rule with ALL scalers. Advertise what it IS capable of, but let people find out the hard what it DOESN'T do.

Unless you happen to know different?

Cheers, Nick

p. 56 of the manual

HDMI-in (From AV receiver) : Supports
(1)Video: 720(1440)x480i@59.94/60Hz, 640x480p@59.94/60Hz,
720x480p@59.94/60Hz, 720(1440)x576i@50Hz, 720x576p@50Hz,
1280x720p@59.94/60Hz, 1920x1080i@59.94/60Hz
(2)Audio: Linear PCM audio.


Thanks for the reply, Tom. I don't expect anyone to do my research for me. I downloaded and read the latest manuals from the Calibre, Lumagen, DVDO and Optoma websites today. Only the latter was not clear about what audio is carried. Calibre specifically state the Vantage doesn't carry LPCM, whereas the VP50 & Radiance do.

Optoma don't say, which suggests to me that their HDMI interface is just V1.0, and carries only DD & DTS. If it took LPCM, I think they would have made that clear. That seems to be the rule with ALL scalers. Advertise what it IS capable of, but let people find out the hard what it DOESN'T do.

Unless you happen to know different?

Cheers, Nick

FWIW, I didn't keep the Optoma scaler very long. I really only got it out of curiosity and believed (correctly) that I could sell it at a very small loss. I subsequently also sold the Vantage HD because I got a display with excellent processing and all the internal controls I could ever want. This made an external processor unnecessary. I also owned a DVDO VP30 for about a year, and I have spent quite a bit of time playing around with the Crystalio II.

In retrospect, I think the Optoma was the best of the bunch. It offers a really nice mix of performance, build quality, features, and cost. If I were buying an external video processor today, I would probably get the Optoma.

The only feature it lacks that I would like to see is primary color correction, though on the other hand no other processor has that. Lumagen claims that the Radiance will have this feature at some point.

Will the Optoma HD3000 improve picture quality on the Optoma HD7100 versus not having it at all???

How does this help HDTV? Would it be a good idea for someone who doesn't calibrate much?

Should I let the HD3000 upscale SD-DVD's or should I use Sony PS3 or upscaling DVD player???

Was the HDMI output better/worse then the component???