According to Sound and Vision there will be another version of The Fifth Element. It was the movie that many of us on this forum were really looking forward to and the first release was lacking. The superbit DVD is considered reference quality, so my guess is that Sony thought that if they released a BD version of the movie and used it in their promotional material then the BD version would be reference as well. Otherwise why use such an older obscure movie to promote the format? The problem for Sony is that they didn't let the guys that were doing the transfer and encoding know that it needed to be reference quality, so we ended up with a dirty print and soft picture. I'm sure now they are aware of the criticisms and will do a better job. I'm curious if they will let you trade your old version for a new version, or will they just expect you to buy it again? And will they do this with other first titles as well?

Post a link to this info from sound and vision. I found nothing that says this on the web site. Also any idiot doing a transfer should be making the best quality transfer period. Even the newest titles released july 25 look little better than the first batch. I can't imagine they are going to replace all the ****** titles they have released. Underworld Evolutuin and from what I hear Stealth are the only titles that even attempt to do the format justice. The rest are a disgrace!

Try here, bottom of the page: http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=1683&page_number=2

Every movie should be as close to reference quality as possible. Sony shouldn't have to let the people making the disc know that.

Also, I knew all of these first release discs would get re-released, but it's only been a month! The double-dip train has started, and Sony's in the conducter's seat.

Every movie should be as close to reference quality as possible. Sony shouldn't have to let the people making the disc know that.

Also, I knew all of these first release discs would get re-released, but it's only been a month! The double-dip train has started, and Sony's in the conducter's seat.

LOL, sad but true. Kind of makes you think Sony did this intentionally. I mean seriously, how could they have thought the current BD quality would be good enough to beat HD DVD? C'mon, I'm not that gullable. Along with rereleases I hope they come out with a major pricecut on their player.

I've held Sony in very low regard for quite some time. They just don't have the same attitude towards transfer quality that other studios exhibit. Picture quality takes a back seat to other considerations.

Why would anybody be suprised by this move from Sony. How many versions are there on dvd? Par for the course and an insult to their supporters because no way will they do a no cost replacement.

If this doesn't push you away from BR what will?

are they recalling the first pressings of it, and replacing peoples already purchased copies, or is this in fact the formats first double dip?

The problem for Sony is that they didn't let the guys that were doing the transfer and encoding know that it needed to be reference quality, so we ended up with a dirty print and soft picture.

Do you understand what you are saying here? Is that really the kind of format you crave- one where they just give attention and care to the highest profile titles?

are they recalling the first pressings of it, and replacing peoples already purchased copies, or is this in fact the formats first double dip?



Do you understand what you are saying here? Is that really the kind of format you crave- one where they just give attention and care to the highest profile titles?

They aren't even doing that, are they.

Why would they need to tell anyone else to put out a quality disk. They are the ones doing the work. Not an outside pressing company.

Prove that sony said this and not some guy form S&V.

But didn't Don Eklund of Sony say that picture problems were the fault of Samsung, saying, "the player’s image did not match the quality of the master tapes from which the Blu-ray titles were encoded. (http://www.avguide.com/news/2006/07/20/exclusive-early-samsung-blu-ray-players-ship-with-chip-mistake/)"

So is it the player or the masters? And is the "problem" with the Samsung (which surprisingly enough was found by Sony, not Samsung) nearly a month after launch the first time anyone at Sony actually watched one of these discs?

Either Sony is buying time or they're incompetent and neither one is a great option.


(Lest anyone think I'm bashing, I'm saying this to try and rain down a little common sense for people to be forced to ponder.)

Prove that sony said this and not some guy form S&V.
Here's the e-mail I wrote to Rob Sabin, author of the S&V article:

Hi,
On page two of your Samsung BD-P1000 Blu-ray Disc Player review, you wrote that Sony was committed to rereleasing "The Fifth Element" on BD because of less-than-pristine source elements. Just wondering how you learned this. Was this direct from Sony? Are they going to offer a replacement deal for anyone who currently owns this disc? Is there a timeframe for this rerelease? I'm just curious, because the disc is a little over a month old, and we're already talking about double-dipping, which, to me, is incredible. Any information you can share would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Bryan FerreiraI'll post any reply I get here, if any, so watch this thread.

Prove that sony said this and not some guy form S&V.
BTW Kevin, I love your sig. I agree that the load times of the Toshiba are a flaw in an otherwise diamond of a machine. :D

Alright, I'll bite (again), how do you explain how bad the Fifth Element on BD looks? I understand you're no insider with any great amount of knowledge... But if you had to guess why it looks bad, what would be the most valid reason you could reasonably come up with?

Ok thanks Bferr.

yep cliff thats why i am asking for proof.

are they recalling the first pressings of it, and replacing peoples already purchased copies, or is this in fact the formats first double dip?

I am assuming that the old version will go OOP as soon as the new one is put together. However, considering how many BD adopters picked up The Fifth Element to show off their new system, this means that just about everyone who bought a BD player will have to buy a second version of this title. Which Sony will then count towards total BD media sales. :rolleyes:



Do you understand what you are saying here? Is that really the kind of format you crave- one where they just give attention and care to the highest profile titles?

What I don't get is, what happened to the master for the Superbit version? Did it disappear? Did they actually cut a new transfer for this, and decided it wasn't worth their time to make sure the master looked okay? What is going on over there?

Well hate to dissapoint you but the diamond is blu-ray and the pebble is hd dvd. :)
I personally dont think it looks as bad as people are saying it looks better then the superbit version. explain why quite a few hd dvd titles dont look as good as others.

To my eyes, it looked far worse than the Superbit version. And this was back when I was a BD supporter.

As for the HD DVD titles, there have been a few WB titles with transfer errors. However, instead of releasing them all and then re-releasing them, WB is pulling as many as possible before production begins to redo them. The ones out now will remain as they are. And even with those transfer errors, they still look far better than The Fifth Element BD does.

Also, every HD DVD I've seen looks better than the corresponding DVD version, even the flawed ones. I can't say the same about BD.

It's a Sony title. It will not use VC-1 or AVC. It may be a 50GB, though.

Well hate to dissapoint you but the diamond is blu-ray and the pebble is hd dvd. :)
Oh, sorry, I thought you were being obvious in your sig, but now I can see you're going for a more intellectual, not-so-direct slant.

I personally dont think it looks as bad as people are saying
That speaks volumes to anyone who has actually seen it.

So will Warner re-release any of their bobbed 1080i HD-DVDs?

Not in the forseeable future, no. In fact, from what I've heard, we'll actually see two more bobbed transfers because they were too close to production to be pulled. Every other problem transfer that was not too close to production is being redone as we speak. And honestly, I've watched Full Metal Jacket and it doesn't look awful. Certainly not bad enough to warrant a reissue.

So will Warner re-release any of their bobbed 1080i HD-DVDs?

Another valid question with no clear answer.

And honestly, I've watched Full Metal Jacket and it doesn't look awful. Certainly not bad enough to warrant a reissue.

I'd hate to see what you consider to be a bad transfer then.

The Fifth Element. :)

If this is true, then this is a good thing!

Because it would mean, that Sony is reacting honestly. It would mean that they have quickly learned their lesson and will now do everything they can to make BD look as good as it can. Even if they stick to MPEG2, they will at least make sure that mastering is perfect.
I hope this info is true. I would be surprised if it was. To rerelease the Fifth Element would be confirming that they made a mistake. That the first release was not "beyond HD". Wouldn´t look good to the general consumer.
But due to the reasons mentioned before, I´d be impressed by Sony, if they released an awesome new version.

According to Sound and Vision there will be another version of The Fifth Element. It was the movie that many of us on this forum were really looking forward to and the first release was lacking. The superbit DVD is considered reference quality, so my guess is that Sony thought that if they released a BD version of the movie and used it in their promotional material then the BD version would be reference as well. Otherwise why use such an older obscure movie to promote the format? The problem for Sony is that they didn't let the guys that were doing the transfer and encoding know that it needed to be reference quality, so we ended up with a dirty print and soft picture. I'm sure now they are aware of the criticisms and will do a better job. I'm curious if they will let you trade your old version for a new version, or will they just expect you to buy it again? And will they do this with other first titles as well?

DL, 50 GB?

If this is true, then this is a good thing!

Because it would mean, that Sony is reacting honestly. It would mean that they have quickly learned their lesson and will now do everything they can to make BD look as good as it can. Even if they stick to MPEG2, they will at least make sure that mastering is perfect.
I hope this info is true. I would be surprised if it was. To rerelease the Fifth Element would be confirming that they made a mistake. That the first release was not "beyond HD". Wouldn´t look good to the general consumer.
But due to the reasons mentioned before, I´d be impressed by Sony, if they released an awesome new version.

Sony is faced with an interesting dilemna here.
TFE on Bd is now regarded almost unanimously by the people following this technology as a collosal disappointment- and one of the weakest HD on discs efforts of either of the two formats.
So if you are Sony do you clearly differentiate a new remastered disc from the first pressings- thereby inviting criticism for 'double dipping' and gouging, or do you quietly as possible replace the first pressings with the new ones and hope that all the chatter that has already surrounded the title doesn't spread any further and scare off new and future buyers?

I speculated this WAY back when. They released TFE with how many supplements? Transfer aside, they were ALWAYS going to do a double dip! This studio TRIPLE dips constantly! How mnay BlackHawk Down's and Underworlds are out? The fact that EVERYONE couldn't see this coming the day the specs were announced let alone the reviews absolutely amazes me.
You drop a grand on a machine to FINALLY watch one of your favorite flicks with the best possible PQ. Guess what? We ain't releasing it first. You'll have to wait until the 2nd or even 3rd release fot the supplements AND the best PQ.

;) d

Please do not let this thread become another Sony-bashing experience. That will not help us move forward.

I am glad if they are replacing this disk, just as I am glad that numerous other inferior DVD's from studios other than Sony have been replaced.

Please also note that "double dipping" is very common. New Line with LOTR? Universal with King Kong? Disney with many titles?

The problem for Sony is that they didn't let the guys that were doing the transfer and encoding know that it needed to be reference quality, so we ended up with a dirty print and soft picture.

as in only take care in the movies that people will talk about? Didn't they think people would talk about any of the first releases?

At any rate, this is good news. Its one of the first signs that Sony and Blu-ray in general is concerned about picture quality. That has to be a good thing.

Well first off I am going to mention that I don't own a Blu-ray player yet, but do own an HD-DVD player....however I'm continuing to wait out the situation and read these blu-ray forums to see how everyone is reacting to things. I'll probably get a PS3, or maybe just wait for one of the standalone players which will be released later....

Anyways, to my post regarding this....I'm glad that the first wave of blu-ray titles will be re-released, especially if the quality is as bad as people are making it seem. This of course is frustrating for those who've already purchased titles, but then again, if they re-release films and do a much better transfer, it'll help people like me who are waiting to take the plunge go ahead and buy a player. I wish there was a unified format, but honestly, if I have to buy two formats to get good quality HD material, I'll do it, but I just hope that if there is no clear winner both are around for awhile, that way I will get a much better return on my money.

I'm glad that better discs are forthcoming, but:

I think everyone that bought any BD disc that has to be redone via admission of putting out a subpar disc deserves to be duly compensated either via a direct trade or full refund.



This isn't the same thing as double dipping for some extra features, or Director's Cuts, or the rest of it.

This is an admission that a subpar product was deliberately and knowingly put out, almost certainly to make a time deadline, and now it's time to clean up the mess and put out the real product that should have been put out in the first place...or you wait until you can do it right.

True many studios double dip. But in the case of say "Kong" and "LOTR" their initial discs looked pretty good, unlike say Spiderman 2 which was ass and you had to buy the Superbit version to get a good looking copy of the film. Then if you wanted the supplements, you had to buy the 2 disc. And there was No reason they needed to do this as Disc 1 of Spidey 2 was JUST the movie with no supplements so they easily could've put the film on in "Superbit" quality but chose not to. They used WAY less than the actual disc space on purpose. That is calculated. And now with TFE, here we go again.... Why release it just once with the best PQ when we can milk it some more. This is not "Sony bashing". I own alot of Sony products, this is bashing against the assbags making these specific decisions which are business ones, plain and simple.

Interesting development if this turns out to be true. I am interested in what Sony's official statement will say. It appears obvious that if you are announcing that one of your few BD titles released so far is already going to be rereleased, it is because the first one was not up to par.

If that is the reason, I would certainly expect that Sony would have some type of rebate/trade program for those who were unlucky enough to buy the original BD release of TFE.

It's disappointing that Sony didn't do this title right to begin with. But it is good to see that they may be admitting that it wasnt done right and are going to do something about it.

I applaud Sony for taking this mulligan. It shows that they "got the message" that the initial offerings were subpar, and maybe they'll plan to make their best effort in the future.

I applaud Sony for taking this mulligan. It shows that they "got the message" that the initial offerings were subpar, and maybe they'll plan to make their best effort in the future.

That's the good part, at least. Or so we hope.

I applaud Sony for taking this mulligan. It shows that they "got the message" that the initial offerings were subpar, and maybe they'll plan to make their best effort in the future.
I’m off to the aeroporto with zee wife and zee royal pouch, so only a quick note.

For those of you that are truly looking forward to seeing TFE with better P/Q* rather than commenting on what should a , could a , would a been done when it was first released……………..

I shall now take my bow and pass the hat for contributions :D …………………

For non-believers, if I get permission, in the future I may post the back and forth e-mails between the powers-that-be at SPHE and your humble servant. :cool:

Believe me, they are listening and now trying harder. :o

*Here’s hoping that the above statement doesn’t come back to haunt me someday. :eek:
If so, I be only the messenger not the provider.

I’m off to the aeroporto with zee wife and zee royal pouch, so only a quick note.

For those of you that are truly looking forward to seeing TFE with better P/Q* rather than commenting on what should a , could a , would a been done when it was first released……………..

I shall now take my bow and pass the hat for contributions :D …………………

For non-believers, if I get permission, in the future I may post the back and forth e-mails between the powers-that-be at SPHE and your humble servant. :cool:

Believe me, they are listening and now trying harder. :o

*Here’s hoping that the above statement doesn’t come back to haunt me someday. :eek:
If so, I be only the messenger not the provider.

Good to know. :)

While it is good to see that Sony is taking initiative by re-releasing some of their first wave of BR titles...it should still be obvious to almost anyone that Sony does not have the interests of the consumer in mind:

These problem titles are still available at all online and B&M stores with no signs of any recall.

Many of you may be quick to compare this Sony blunder with the Warner 1080i60 blunder it is important to differentiate the two:

Sony is the driving force behind Blu-ray and took ages to finally admit an issue with their initial releases...and still has YET to do anything about it beyond some muted speculations of 're-releases' with no real details.

Warner is a movie studio and screwed up on the transfer, they quickly (fairly) acknowledged the issue and did actually stop releasing a few titles that were further down the pipeline. The discs people had issues with were also not in the same realm as TFE (which needs to scream reference quality) or T1/T2.

Again I still get the notion that Sony is much slower to act and admit problems than other companies. If people were buying these discs and not caring about the horrible transfers I highly doubt they would do anything at all. But with the sales stats of BR being rather dreadful, Sony needs to appear like they care.

Additionally I am also not happy with the fact that the Samsung player with ADMITTEDLY FAULTY hardware is still for sale, and at the SAME PRICE !!

I personally cant wait to buy 2 version of BD of fith element yippie.....does that mean i will have double copies of each movie that sony releases on blu ray?

But haven't all studio's done "remastered" titles in the past?

IMO, just read the reviews...if it gets bad reviews, dont buy it. I've held off on a few BR titles (TFE) being one of them, for this very reason.

Your dollars or lack there of will do the talking and convice the studios to git-r-dun the first time right!

But haven't all studio's done "remastered" titles in the past?

IMO, just read the reviews...if it gets bad reviews, dont buy it. I've held off on a few BR titles (TFE) being one of them, for this very reason.

Your dollars or lack there of will do the talking and convice the studios to git-r-dun the first time right!
the thing is though some folks dont listen to reviews I personally dont listen to reviews 100% of the time maybe 50% of the time I usually see for myself....

Numerous LD and DVD releases have been repressed to respond to problems, a few with offers of replacement.

Not always.

I remember that Universal released Howard the Duck with left/right channels reversed. There was no apology, reissue or recall. :)

Fox replaced My Fair Lady on LD free of charge with a marginally better transfer. (This is when they owned rights to the title, which is now WB.)

Many of the older Sony assets are from Columbia Pictures which for years was notoriously poor with their assets, as Joe Capparicio noted. Sony has replaced many of the more important titles with really excellent disks (Lawrence of Arabia and From Here to Eternity come to mind).

What I am saying: let's not hold up Sony as being the only company that can mess up or, for that matter, do the right thing. Sony is sort of average in my opinion, with WB over time really being the best.

It is a good sign if they are planning a new TFE after their disastrous release. This is only 5 weeks after release.

Perhaps they are learning something. I know if I were Chairman of the Board of Sony the board room would have been the House of Flying Daggers (metaphorically) in the last several weeks.

We have reason to hope.

Hang in there Rob, it can’t get worse. :D

B.T.W.
Law 101 – Don’t admit anything.
Law 201 – Learn to use this phrase often……”I don’t recall.”

When I saw those three letters "Law", I was kind of hoping that you were saying something about "Lawrence being released on BD. When that happens, I will be purchasing a Blu-ray player. No question about it.

I do have confidence that Sony/Columbia will do Lawrence right!

I'd hate to see what you consider to be a bad transfer then.

FMJ is great, it looks exactly like the source is supposed to, soft and grainy, HD-DVD looks exactly like any said film is supposed to
FMJ is not some big budget summer hollywood blockbuster piece of **** that is shined and color corrected, ran thru a PC and then shined again, it is true film

the 1080i deinterlacing issues have little effect on the picture quality other than the occasional jaggies, if Warner released FMJ people would still be complaining that don't get the point of film

-Gary

Well at least they knew they screwed up with the transfer. I wonder if they'll use the same transfer used in the Superbit/Ultimate edition of TFE or get the movie sent to DTS Digital Images for a cleanup.

I think one of the reasons they did this was the fact that TFE will be the free BD disc that you get when you order Sony's BD player online. A very good first impression on the player is needed, I think.

Since it will be until October/November until the player is out, and that it takes 3-6 months for a new title to be made for BD/HD-DVD, I wonder if that means the new version will be in the advanced codec.


fuad

I do have confidence that Sony/Columbia will do Lawrence right! I have my doubts.

I personally cant wait to buy 2 version of BD of fith element yippie.....does that mean i will have double copies of each movie that sony releases on blu ray?
ONLY 2...?!?!?!
Lessee, the SB version with the better PQ, codec, dual layer whatever and then the deluxe version with all of the supplements...

;)

FMJ is great, it looks exactly like the source is supposed to, soft and grainy, HD-DVD looks exactly like any said film is supposed to
FMJ is not some big budget summer hollywood blockbuster piece of **** that is shined and color corrected, ran thru a PC and then shined again, it is true film

TFE is really no different other than the effects shots which were outputted to film. Both were color timed to achieve a certain look.

While it is good to see that Sony is taking initiative by re-releasing some of their first wave of BR titles...

A quick reminder for everybody: As far as I know, this is not yet confirmed. Don´t take it for granted yet. I too hope, the news is true, but we still need confirmation.

Robert Harris (film restoration expert who worked on Lawrence of Arabia and Spartacus) just mentioned that Warners have pulled a few of their planned 1080i transfer movies from release, in order to give them new masters. Not sure if there's any plan to redo the ones that have already been released, but at least they're also listening to consumer complaints.

Well if true then it is good Sony will tweak the PQ but who here really thinks they will have a recall of the first disc? I don't. SO then one must ask HOW in the WORLD do you justify a company releasing a mediocre product then fixing it and asking people who bought the first release to buy it again? Seriously, how can any logical human defend that? This isnt the same as double dipping like some people here are trying to grasp at...this is flat out the company saying their product was fugged up and want to fix it. Would the people who may defend this (ie buying the disc again) also defend if a car company sold you a car that had its engine die during the warranty period (because it was faulty and a known problem) and asks you to pay for everything? Do people really take it up the you know where from companies like this? Incredible.

I say "good job" to Sony if they are doing this and let anyone with TFE send their copy in for the new release but to be honest, I do not expect them to do that because unlike some people, I can clearly SEE how Sony goes about their business. If this is true then ANYONE should CLEARLY be able to simply conclude Sony was full of crap when they tried to blame the Sammy player for the medicore looking discs.

How can one be so aligned to a format of 1s and 0s to basically bend over for a company? If this re-release is true then Sony is just feeding people BS after BS...when does it end? When do people say "you know what, F this company" and not defend them? YOU CAN STILL LIKE BLURAY WITHOUT HAVING TO LOSE YOUR CREDIBITLITY BY DEFENDING SONY!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just mind boggling. A little logic goes a long way...

I say "good job" to Sony if they are doing this and let anyone with TFE send their copy in for the new release but to be honest, I do not expect them to do that because unlike some people, I can clearly SEE how Sony goes about their business. If this is true then ANYONE should CLEARLY be able to simply conclude Sony was full of crap when they tried to blame the Sammy player for the medicore looking discs.

How can one be so aligned to a format of 1s and 0s to basically bend over for a company? If this re-release is true then Sony is just feeding people BS after BS...when does it end? When do people say "you know what, F this company" and not defend them? YOU CAN STILL LIKE BLURAY WITHOUT HAVING TO LOSE YOUR CREDIBITLITY BY DEFENDING SONY!!!!!!!!!!!!
So without knowing if the rumour is true, or if refunds/returns will be accepted for earlier discs, you've decided to get your full Sony rant on, just in the off chance?! I'm curious to know what this faceless corporation has done to you to cause such eye-bulging hatred.


Just mind boggling. A little logic goes a long way...
Wow!

But didn't Don Eklund of Sony say that picture problems were the fault of Samsung, saying, "the player’s image did not match the quality of the master tapes from which the Blu-ray titles were encoded. (http://www.avguide.com/news/2006/07/20/exclusive-early-samsung-blu-ray-players-ship-with-chip-mistake/)"

So is it the player or the masters? And is the "problem" with the Samsung (which surprisingly enough was found by Sony, not Samsung) nearly a month after launch the first time anyone at Sony actually watched one of these discs?

Either Sony is buying time or they're incompetent and neither one is a great option.


(Lest anyone think I'm bashing, I'm saying this to try and rain down a little common sense for people to be forced to ponder.)

The fault is likely in more than one place. Supposedly there is a firmware update on the way that will improve PQ, but as far as I know there is no firmware solution for dirt and scratches on the film transfer.

I say "good job" to Sony if they are doing this and let anyone with TFE send their copy in for the new release but to be honest, I do not expect them to do that because unlike some people, I can clearly SEE how Sony goes about their business. If this is true then ANYONE should CLEARLY be able to simply conclude Sony was full of crap when they tried to blame the Sammy player for the medicore looking discs.
Given how the BD group is trying to position BD as "Beyond HD", I would not want to be the person responsible for marketing the new version. Do you go with Platinum Collection, Director's Cut, or some other moniker to differentiate that this version is both new and "better"?

Given that many consumers (e.g., me and most folks I know) hate the double and triple dipping, putting such a title out this soon after launch would be an extremely bad marketing move. That's not to say that Sony has not already done some bad marketing moves already, but I would hope they stop soon.

Net-net: My guess is that they offer replacement discs if they are really going to rerelease the title.

Bill

The fault is likely in more than one place. Supposedly there is a firmware update on the way that will improve PQ, but as far as I know there is no firmware solution for dirt and scratches on the film transfer.
Sounds pretty much spot on. Is it really so difficult for some to accept that there is often more than one reason why things happen?

Given that many consumers (e.g., me and most folks I know) hate the double and triple dipping, putting such a title out this soon after launch would be an extremely bad marketing move.
When the DVD of Ed Wood was recalled and replaced with another version soon after release was that counted as a double dip? Strikes me it would just be quality control after the fact, such as is now happening with hardware for both formats. None of it looks very clever, and makes me wonder how much these companies have cut their quality control departments.

ONLY 2...?!?!?!
Lessee, the SB version with the better PQ, codec, dual layer whatever and then the deluxe version with all of the supplements...

;)


We all know Sony is going this route...First release a crappy version. Then release a slightly better version with the same single layer and mpeg2. A month later after all the Sony early adopters bought both copies at full price Sony then announces a new version using the Dual Layer 50GB discs however still using Mpeg2. Some time later after Fans have triple dipped, two other releases are scheduled. One Super-Duper-Bit version that is 50GB and uses VC-1 or something else and another release that is a special edition with a lot of extras however the movie isn't as good a quality as the Superbit. Ahh reference material indeed....

Putting out poor releases in order to milk the consumer further down the road is a big no-no to me -- one of the main reasons I don't buy DVDs.

When you do something, do it right.

Another valid question with no clear answer.

Since none of us work for Warner that would be hard to answer. Since they would have to create a whole new master it would be awhile before this is even possible. However, at least they admitted from the start that the titles weren't the greatest. Sony still hasn't actually admitted to screwing anything up. They are only re-releasing TFE (not confirmed yet). What about all the other BR titles?

I applaud Sony for taking this mulligan. It shows that they "got the message" that the initial offerings were subpar, and maybe they'll plan to make their best effort in the future.

Or they've decided that BR50 isn't going to happen and now they have to prove they can do it with BR25 to avoid losing all confidence. There are lots of possibilities.

(For the record: this point was made for dramatic effect, I don't know what they are planning or the future of BR50. No one does, but them.)

Hang in there Rob, it can’t get worse. :D

B.T.W.
Law 101 – Don’t admit anything.
Law 201 – Learn to use this phrase often……”I don’t recall.”


Actually it's "I'm sorry Senator, I have no recollection of those events." or "I would like to exercise my 5th amendment rights."

Given how the BD group is trying to position BD as "Beyond HD", I would not want to be the person responsible for marketing the new version. Do you go with Platinum Collection, Director's Cut, or some other moniker to differentiate that this version is both new and "better"?




I can see it now: "The Fifth Element: The Version That Doesn't Suck"

:D

I can see it now: "The Fifth Element: The Version That Doesn't Suck"

:D

or "The Fifth Element: Just buy it and shut the **** up!"

The fault is likely in more than one place. Supposedly there is a firmware update on the way that will improve PQ, but as far as I know there is no firmware solution for dirt and scratches on the film transfer.
Sounds pretty much spot on. Is it really so difficult for some to accept that there is often more than one reason why things happen?
The more appropriate question to ask is, "Is it really so difficult for some the accept that Sony might have dropped the ball on all of this?" I think it's weird that the Samsung has a "soften only Sony and LG titles" setting in the chip, because, as people are now reporting first hand, Warner's Training Day BD is almost as good as the HD-DVD (barring some MPEG2 motion artifacting). So how can the Samsung reproduce a sharp, crisp Training Day but then randomly softens the majority of Sony and LG titles? I can think of two obvious options:
A) The Samsung really isn't at fault and was thrown under the bus by Sony.
or
B) The Samsung really is at fault, but only trips this "faulty" circuit when inserting a Sony or LG BD.

(why do I fear that the alternate "c" option that will soon be given will be some ridiculous concoction that throws all logic out the window in favor of some scenario where people don't have to fault the actual discs or Sony? And before someone says "maybe it's a VC-1 disc" realize that if the BD was VC-1 and still doesn't quite match up, that's even worse.)

Finally, a person with some sense steps in. Cliff is 1000% correct here. The Even barring the softened picture here for a moment, Sony used a master with many instances of damage and debris. The artifacting and softness only seem to worsen the situation that a seemingly regarded "reference" disc was intially rolled out in piss poor form. Besides the color reproduction being much more accurate and lively, there is nothing next gen about this disc.

Furthermore, WB was able to craft a great looking BD release that doesn't fall victim to anything other than compression issues. Is Cliff right, does the faulty chip no what studio titles are in the drive, and then kick it in gear?

Jesus people, come on

Robert Harris (film restoration expert who worked on Lawrence of Arabia and Spartacus) just mentioned that Warners have pulled a few of their planned 1080i transfer movies from release, in order to give them new masters. Not sure if there's any plan to redo the ones that have already been released, but at least they're also listening to consumer complaints.


Which would mean that they will have the opportunity to get rid of the terrible EE that is in the current master. Excellent news.

Did Mr. Harris indicate whether he will be participating in the creation of the new master?

Sorry, he didn't say anything about his personal involvement, just that Warner had pulled some of the releases they had in the pipe-line which had come from 1080i masters. It's my speculation that this might explain the relative paucity of WB releases on HD DVD recently.

The more appropriate question to ask is, "Is it really so difficult for some the accept that Sony might have dropped the ball on all of this?"
The chip issue on the Samsung has now been confirmed by Samsung engineers, no? Is this really too much for some to take? That doesn't mean there aren't problems with Sony releases, it just means they may not be quite as bad as initially reported. As to Sony's first BD releases they're kind of in a quandry aren't they, since right now they'd be helping to sell a competitior's (Samsung's) hardware rather than their own. If the news of a reissue is true I'm not sure how this can be taken as anything but a possitive, indicating Sony has an interest in some sort of quality in their HD titles. Shame it's after release, but then I feel the same way about the hardware for both formats as well.

The chip issue on the Samsung has now been confirmed by Samsung engineers, no? Is this really too much for some to take? That doesn't mean there aren't problems with Sony releases, it just means they may not be quite as bad as initially reported. l
You know what... whatever :( If that's what you want to believe, I'm confident that some of you guys are only making yourself look more and more foolish as people are starting to see how massively overblown the "faulty chip" fiasco really was. Fifth Element is just bad. You know it. I know it. Even people who haven't seen it know it. If you want to continue to pardon Sony's responsibility in all of this, go right ahead. I could give a sh!t at this point. I'll continue to hold BD and Sony accountable until they release the product they promised that's worth my money. I DO happen to know what the first planned BD50 is and if they can't give that to us, I'm sure we'll still get plenty of retarded excuses from Sony and some of their AVS elves for Christmas instead. I guess we'll see later this year if they make it.

When the DVD of Ed Wood was recalled and replaced with another version soon after release was that counted as a double dip? Strikes me it would just be quality control after the fact, such as is now happening with hardware for both formats. None of it looks very clever, and makes me wonder how much these companies have cut their quality control departments.

Actually, I believe Ed Wood was replaced due to legal issues regarding the deleted scenes. So, in that case, there was no need to replace the original pressing, because it was actually superior to the repressing. Same deal as the original Warner issue of Little Shop of Horrors and the Criterion Seven Samurai (although now Criterion is doing a third version of Seven Samurai, but that's beside the point).

Legal issues or quality control, the reasons are just sauce. Neither product should have made it past QA and in the process cost both companies moolah. My only point was that until we hear confirmation from SPHE about this issue, and also what they plan to do about the product already on the market, it's a little premature to label this rumour as a double dip. Shouldn't we be pleased that companies are willing to admit their mistakes and try to improve (even if they should have gotten it right the first time) ?

You know what... whatever :( If that's what you want to believe, I'm confident that some of you guys are only making yourself look more and more foolish as people are starting to see how massively overblown the "faulty chip" fiasco really was. Fifth Element is just bad. You know it. I know it. Even people who haven't seen it know it. If you want to continue to pardon Sony's responsibility in all of this, go right ahead. I could give a sh!t at this point. I'll continue to hold BD and Sony accountable until they release the product they promised that's worth my money. I DO happen to know what the first planned BD50 is and if they can't give that to us, I'm sure we'll still get plenty of retarded excuses from Sony and some of their AVS elves for Christmas instead. I guess we'll see later this year if they make it.
Raaaaaaage dump! ;)

Shouldn't we be pleased that companies are willing to admit their mistakes and try to improve (even if they should have gotten it right the first time) ?


yeah, when they are provided free of charge to the people who purchased them in such a s*itty state. We are not talking about a re-release 4-5 years down the road when the technology has matured to a whole new level, we are arguing that a quick double dip to correct mastering errors is a dick thing to do.

Cliff, I feel you on this one, I really do.

And the Ed Wood recall due to not getting legal clearance is a wholly different issue as any that slipped out were not plagued by poor quality and such. That case is apples to oranges!

Yeah, as I mentioned, the original version of Ed Wood was actually superior by having more extra features. The PQ/SQ were identical on both.

It's like screaming at the deaf!

Yeah, as I mentioned, the original version of Ed Wood was actually superior by having more extra features. The PQ/SQ were identical on both.

What is missing from the rerelease? The controversial deleted scene is still there.

The more appropriate question to ask is, "Is it really so difficult for some the accept that Sony might have dropped the ball on all of this?" I think it's weird that the Samsung has a "soften only Sony and LG titles" setting in the chip, because, as people are now reporting first hand, Warner's Training Day BD is almost as good as the HD-DVD (barring some MPEG2 motion artifacting). So how can the Samsung reproduce a sharp, crisp Training Day but then randomly softens the majority of Sony and LG titles?

There's another fault with the Samsung - Lord of War is a LionsGate title, but it forgot to activate the "soften only Sony and LG titles" chip.

Yes, Sony's first batch had some piss-poor transfers in there, but keep in mind Samsung crops the image more than the Toshiba and has a brightness/contrast issue through HDMI as well. This is a great format that was not fully baked at launch, and if I had any pull or say-so in the BDA, I would put the pressure on both hardware and media producers to step up to the plate with the best product come 2nd generation, not another stop-gap. Any shortcomings on Sony's side does not absolve Samsung, and vice versa.

If HD DVD is the look and sound of perfect, then is perfection too much to ask for from Blu-ray?

Sony has an interest in some sort of quality in their HD titles.

Wow. Thats beyond HD for you ...

I beieve that phrase refers to the BD extra features that are apparently in the pipe-line. To the people complaining about a double dip, do you have information that Sony is going to actually rerelease and that they won't be accepting returns/refunds? Or is this just a place to spill your hate?

Or is this just a place to spill your hate?
I honestly don't see how anyone can not hate Sony for this fiasco. The majority of people on the forum supported Blu-ray before the launch. It's because of the crappy Blu-ray launch that many of us bought the other format. Most people on this forum now think that the other format has EARNED our respect. The Fifth Element is just the example of how Sony's lack of quality control is negatively impacting Blu-ray. My guess is that there are some higher ups at Sony that thought that releasing The Fifth Element would be a good idea since it is a reference DVD, and they just assumed that the BD version would be reference as well--but without following through to make sure it was done right. Sony used this title in their promotion of their player. Many of us on this forum were really looking forward to it, and if the reviews had been good, I would have jumped at a chance to own a Blu-ray player. With the poor launch a lot of us are going to be very tentative before buying into Blu-ray now. We are going to be more cautious now with even the Pioneer and Panasonic, and not buy them unless the reviews are stellar. Many people here bought the Samsung based on the Blu-ray hype, and most of the players have been returned. Again, even if you are the most ardent Blu-ray supporter you have to blame Sony for the fiasco. I know Samsung supports Blu-ray, but right now I would bet that they hate Sony.

So here is the quadruple dip formula:
1st release - mpg2 SL - theatrical version
2nd release - mpg2 DL - extended version
3rd release - vc1 SL - superbit theatrical version
4th release - vc1 DL - superbit extended version

Don't know why people are complaining about BluRay PQ. It seems quadruple dip was the plan from the start. People should be complaining about quadruple dip rather than BluRay technology not being up to snuff. Correction, vc1 will probably be renamed sc1 with some Sony proprietary special sauce.

Exactly, fire 407!
As long as Blu-Ray existed only on paper, it looked superior to HD-DVD. 50 gigabyte discs with modern compression and large studio support. I wanted that!
But the launch changed my opinion completely. I am not and never was a "HD-DVD fanboy", all I am interested in is image quality. And as long as Sony stays stubborn and sticks to MPEG2 on their 25 gig discs, there is just no way they will be able to deliver better picture quality than HD-DVD. Add to this the bad mastering and high prices compared to HD-DVD. Except for studio support, which has yet to pay off, there is no single logical reason to buy Blu-Ray.

It is sad. On paper Blu-Ray is still superior but if they can´t deliver BD50, they could lose. Sony did drop the ball on this completely.
Probably because of greed, using MPEG2 and because they underestimated the complexity of DL-discs and the importance of quality control and mastering. Now they have a lot of catching up to do.

The only thing I´m wondering:
Will any of this matter in a year? Will the ordinary consumer notice/know any of this or just buy into the sony marketing machinery?

I honestly don't see how anyone can not hate Sony for this fiasco. The majority of people on the forum supported Blu-ray before the launch. It's because of the crappy Blu-ray launch that many of us bought the other format. Most people on this forum now think that the other format has EARNED our respect. The Fifth Element is just the example of how Sony's lack of quality control is negatively impacting Blu-ray. My guess is that there are some higher ups at Sony that thought that releasing The Fifth Element would be a good idea since it is a reference DVD, and they just assumed that the BD version would be reference as well--but without following through to make sure it was done right. Sony used this title in their promotion of their player. Many of us on this forum were really looking forward to it, and if the reviews had been good, I would have jumped at a chance to own a Blu-ray player. With the poor launch a lot of us are going to be very tentative before buying into Blu-ray now. We are going to be more cautious now with even the Pioneer and Panasonic, and not buy them unless the reviews are stellar. Many people here bought the Samsung based on the Blu-ray hype, and most of the players have been returned. Again, even if you are the most ardent Blu-ray supporter you have to blame Sony for the fiasco. I know Samsung supports Blu-ray, but right now I would bet that they hate Sony.
Thank you for explaining your positon with regard to the overall format battle, but I'm not seeing what that has to do with this specific rumour. If it turns out to be true doesn't it suggest those people higher up at Sony, that you suggest pushed for TFE to be released prematurely, might not be so obdurate any more. I don't see how that could possibly be seen as anything but a good thing. And, yes, things should have been right first time out, but there's no use crying over spilt milk. Just mop it up!

The Fifth Element to be re-released

This has to be a joke? Do all those who bought the 1st BR 'TFE' get a refund?

This has to be a joke? Do all those who bought the 1st BR 'TFE' get a refund?

People actually bought it ??

"The Island" dvd release in Canada was released with a 2.0 English track and a 5.1 french track, even though is says "English 5.1" on the rear cover.
the studio did offer a replacement disk to those that asked for it....
I have yet to see any statement on the dvd cases or else where(other than a few dvd websites)
leaving me to conclude that they are still selling the "flawed" dvd to customers that didn't hear about the "flaw" or see it(in the menu or on the processor's display) till the "flawed" disks are all sold.

so I could see Sony doing something similar.


if you don't like the studios double dipping, don't buy the first issue, and send an email/letter to the studio that you will not buy the bare bones dvd, but will wait till the S.E. comes out.

I for one am glad that TFE is going to be remastered now rather than a year from now.



I DO happen to know what the first planned BD50 is and if they can't give that to us, I'm sure we'll still get plenty of retarded excuses from Sony and some of their AVS elves for Christmas instead. I guess we'll see later this year if they make it.
so you have inside information that says BD50 will be out this year???

Prove that sony said this and not some guy form S&V.

kevinca1
BD Supporter
Blu-ray is here EXPERIENCEBLU
Better a diamond with a flaw than a pebble without

Man, you are in some serioius need of a new signiture line.

Sorry, he didn't say anything about his personal involvement, just that Warner had pulled some of the releases they had in the pipe-line which had come from 1080i masters. It's my speculation that this might explain the relative paucity of WB releases on HD DVD recently.


The chip issue on the Samsung has now been confirmed by Samsung engineers, no? Is this really too much for some to take? That doesn't mean there aren't problems with Sony releases, it just means they may not be quite as bad as initially reported. As to Sony's first BD releases they're kind of in a quandry aren't they, since right now they'd be helping to sell a competitior's (Samsung's) hardware rather than their own. If the news of a reissue is true I'm not sure how this can be taken as anything but a possitive, indicating Sony has an interest in some sort of quality in their HD titles. Shame it's after release, but then I feel the same way about the hardware for both formats as well.

I agree it is a POSITIVE for Sony IF (big if) they replace the first run of discs free of charge.

If they do not replace the discs free of charge (most likely IMO from history), then it is a NEGATIVE because they are showing their history of double/triple dipping the same titles like they did/do with SD DVDs, is already planned for the BD format too!

The problem with the quandry you mention about helping to sell a competitors machine IS one of my long standing issues with Sony controlling a format AND a studio. This just should not be allowed for exactly the quandry they are in that YOU pointed out.

I've held Sony in very low regard for quite some time. They just don't have the same attitude towards transfer quality that other studios exhibit. Picture quality takes a back seat to other considerations.

I've been gone for months, but I see it's the same old, same old. :rolleyes:

I thought it was Samsung's fault that BR looks like crap. :confused:

Next year is the 10th Anniversary...perfect timing if you ask me.

I can see the advertising:

***"10th Anniversary Edition!" all the extras, plus new AVC video on a BD50 disc!"***

If Sony is going to do this one over then they should go all the way and use VC1 and put the title on BD50. Do that then they would have something to brag about. :)

I agree it is a POSITIVE for Sony IF (big if) they replace the first run of discs free of charge.



Fat chance. I want my old SOny trinitron replaced with an SXRD for free but that aint happenin either. Besides this whole thread is just a pipe dream started from a comment by a writer working for a magazine. LMFAO

"Sony has now committed to rereleasing The Fifth Element for just this reason."

Anyone got a sony press release? Because without it, this is hopeful speculation.

Quote:"Sony has now committed to rereleasing The Fifth Element for just this reason."

Anyone got a sony press release? Because without it, this is hopeful speculation

I think anyone wo believes that sony is going to rush out and redo TFE is dreaming.

The damage has already been done and I think most will be very leery of buying bluray products until some real pr with honest support and communication with the customer in mind is shown.

They may release a super 50gig special edition if they can ever produce 50 gig discs without the super high defect rate.until then keep dreaming.

When I saw those three letters "Law", I was kind of hoping that you were saying something about "Lawrence being released on BD. When that happens, I will be purchasing a Blu-ray player. No question about it.

I do have confidence that Sony/Columbia will do Lawrence right!

I've been giving that very circumstance a lot of thought of late. And I honestly don't have much confidence that Sony will do "Lawrence" right the first time. So when/if it hits the street, I'll defintely read the reviews, try to rent it from Netflix ... and assuming good reviews and a scratch-free Netflix disk, I'll go out and buy the BD player of my choice ... with a bullet-proof 30-day return policy just to be sure.

So my leanings are like yours. "Lawrence" is THE TITLE that will bring me to the BD table. But I'll bring a lot of insurance with me.

In the meantime, my HD-A1 just keeps on working perfectly ... displaying pristine images and sound.

Hank Brown

If they use the master of Lawrence that BShi used, then it will be a milestone for BD - and not a positive one ;(

If they use the master of Lawrence that BShi used, then it will be a milestone for BD - and not a positive one ;(

Forgive me ... but I don't know what/who "BShi" is. But if you're speaking of the last release ... with all its edge enhancement, yeah that would not be a good thing.

Hank Brown

I've been giving that very circumstance a lot of thought of late. And I honestly don't have much confidence that Sony will do "Lawrence" right the first time. So when/if it hits the street, I'll defintely read the reviews, try to rent it from Netflix ... and assuming good reviews and a scratch-free Netflix disk, I'll go out and buy the BD player of my choice ... with a bullet-proof 30-day return policy just to be sure.

So my leanings are like yours. "Lawrence" is THE TITLE that will bring me to the BD table. But I'll bring a lot of insurance with me.

In the meantime, my HD-A1 just keeps on working perfectly ... displaying pristine images and sound.

Hank Brown

I'm with you all the way Hank!

Robert Harris has indicated that a brand new master is being done for Lawrence. This tells me that Sony is serious about at least attempting to get it right for release on BD.

I would love to see what a 70mm transfer will look like in HD. I saw it a few years ago at the Academy Theater in Beverly Hills, and I can tell you that it was nothing less than glorious!

Edit: I had misread Isaac's comments earlier in this thread. I thought Lawrence was getting a new master. Isaac was referring to some older Warner titles.

If they use the master of Lawrence that BShi used, then it will be a milestone for BD - and not a positive one ;(

Edit: I agree.

;)

...

Robert Harris has indicated that a brand new master is being done for Lawrence...

When and where did he indicate this? When they released the SuperBit DVD, they used the existing, several-years-old HD master and allowed Robert Harris to do an HD tape-to-tape color correction on it, but I haven't read anything from Mr. Harris indicating that an all-new film-to-tape transfer was in the works.

Vincent

When and where did he indicate this? When they released the SuperBit DVD, they used the existing, several-years-old HD master and allowed Robert Harris to do an HD tape-to-tape color correction on it, but I haven't read anything from Mr. Harris indicating that an all-new film-to-tape transfer was in the works.

Vincent

I take this back.

I was confused. He made reference to some Warner titles that were getting new masters, not Sony titles.

Sorry for the bad info. I misread Isaac's comments earlier in this thread.

Forgive me ... but I don't know what/who "BShi" is. But if you're speaking of the last release ... with all its edge enhancement, yeah that would not be a good thing.

Hank Brown

It is a Japanese satellite HD channel.

They have sufficient bitrate (20 Mbps average). So when they get good masters, it looks brilliant (for broadcast at least), but this bitrate also shows flaws in the master when the master is bad.

And the Lawrence master is so bad that a good DVD transfer could easily beat it in fidelity (and most likely actual detail as well).

Thank you for explaining your positon with regard to the overall format battle, but I'm not seeing what that has to do with this specific rumour. If it turns out to be true doesn't it suggest those people higher up at Sony, that you suggest pushed for TFE to be released prematurely, might not be so obdurate any more. I don't see how that could possibly be seen as anything but a good thing. And, yes, things should have been right first time out, but there's no use crying over spilt milk. Just mop it up!

IF Sony decides to re-release TFE it would indicate they acknowledge that the current version has problems and that they can do better. To me, that would be a positive. Also, AFAIK TFE is probably the best selling BD title so far.

Will they release TFE? I am guessing they may have a version with extras that will include higher quality transfer later this year. But I feel it is unlikely. I believe Sony will focus on the newer releases and start with good masters....

It is a Japanese satellite HD channel.

They have sufficient bitrate (20 Mbps average). So when they get good masters, it looks brilliant (for broadcast at least), but this bitrate also shows flaws in the master when the master is bad.

And the Lawrence master is so bad that a good DVD transfer could easily beat it in fidelity (and most likely actual detail as well).

Thanks for that info.

Hank Brown

So will Warner re-release any of their bobbed 1080i HD-DVDs?
What is meant by "bobbed" and what titles are involved?

Will they release TFE? I am guessing they may have a version with extras that will include higher quality transfer later this year. But I feel it is unlikely. I believe Sony will focus on the newer releases and start with good masters....
Masters, masters, masters. It's all coming down to masters, isn't it. How many have already been done, and to what quality. And the length of time and expense to create a new one. Throw in the need for restoration work on even relatively recent films and I'm guessing we'll see either a slow roll out of catalogue titles in HD or a huge amount of double dipping. Both options suck, BTW.

As for Lawrence, that's one of the few titles I'm really looking out for, and hoping for the best presentation possible. We'll see what is eventually produced, but I'm not sure how an uprezed DVD of LOA is likely to look better than an BD taken from the same master. Unless that was just hyperbole. :)

Masters, masters, masters. It's all coming down to masters, isn't it.
John Lowry (Lowry Digital Images) just grinned................ and called a realtor in Aspen.

If Sony is going to do this one over then they should go all the way and use VC1 and put the title on BD50. Do that then they would have something to brag about. :)


Not to be a smart A$$, but wasn't that basically what BD was supposed to do to begin with???? Wasn't it supposed to be vastly more superior product than HD-DVD??? I mean isn't that what Sony has been selling and promising since day one, "a vastly superior product!!!"?? Well, where is it??? Now all Sony seems to be selling is damage control, and a concentrated effort to put BD players into homes as PS3 consoles. Is it obvious only to me that Sony's approach now, has nothing to do with producing a superior product, but rather all about using marketing mussel as a means to compensate for a underwhelming product. At this point Sony is not trying to win this format war on the merits of it's product, that ship has sailed, it's trying to win on the back of it's marketing people and sales of $600 dollar gaming console. To me this reeks of desperation.

Yep, the future of all of our HD formats resides in the hands of "gamers"...

Not trying to be a snob, I own an X-box, Gamecube, Dreamcast...
But when I want to watch a movie I don't want to have to fire up a game console.
And most everybody I know has theirs hooked up to their non-primary viewing device, meaning usually a 27" set.

So is this true ? is the fifth element being re-released any time soon ? The super bit dvd is one of my favorite title and I'm getting a ps3 and I'd love a better version - is it coming /confirmed ? any date ? any updates since august ?

I wish all the June releases were re-released with cleaned up transfers and more extras as BD50s

I’m off to the aeroporto with zee wife and zee royal pouch, so only a quick note.

For those of you that are truly looking forward to seeing TFE with better P/Q* rather than commenting on what should a , could a , would a been done when it was first released……………..

I shall now take my bow and pass the hat for contributions :D …………………

For non-believers, if I get permission, in the future I may post the back and forth e-mails between the powers-that-be at SPHE and your humble servant. :cool:

Believe me, they are listening and now trying harder. :o

*Here’s hoping that the above statement doesn’t come back to haunt me someday. :eek:
If so, I be only the messenger not the provider.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(above from page 2 - 7/30/06 ;) )

From a provider…………………….

Read paragraph #3…………..
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9187841&&#post9187841

And…………………….
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9201166&&#post9201166

Be nice ! :)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(above from page 2 - 7/30/06 ;) )

From a provider…………………….

Read paragraph #3…………..
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9187841&&#post9187841

And…………………….
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9201166&&#post9201166

Be nice ! :)

And we are all extremely grateful to you for convincing paidgeek to start posting here! Nice to have a little more balance! :)

When and where did he indicate this? When they released the SuperBit DVD, they used the existing, several-years-old HD master and allowed Robert Harris to do an HD tape-to-tape color correction on it, but I haven't read anything from Mr. Harris indicating that an all-new film-to-tape transfer was in the works.

Vincent

post 83

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8772031&&#post8772031

post 83

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8772031&&#post8772031

Confirms no new transfer just more fiddling with the rather hopeless old transfer. If LOA shines on BR I'll be very very surprised.

I wish all the June releases were re-released with cleaned up transfers and more extras as BD50s

Don't worry, I am sure at some point they will be just as you stated. Since the vast majority of BD releases for 2007 are still BD-25 using MPEG-2 with no extras they can get you to purchase all of there films twice.

I can still wait..

And we are all extremely grateful to you for convincing paidgeek to start posting here! Nice to have a little more balance! :)
Well shucks :o , thanks Rob. :)

I don’t much care how much “balance” he provides as long as he continues to pay for my lunch :D (albeit, I’m sure on some Sony expense account) whenever we get together.

Fact is, don’t let the “paidgeek” handle fool you. I think he’s almost as much at home ripping thru a chacane at Laguna Seca at race pace........ as he is on the job at Culver City.

Well shucks :o , thanks Rob. :)

I don’t much care how much “balance” he provides as long as he continues to pay for my lunch :D (albeit, I’m sure on some Sony expense account) whenever we get together.

Fact is, don’t let the “paidgeek” handle fool you. I think he’s almost as much at home ripping thru a chacane at Laguna Seca at race pace........ as he is on the job at Culver City.

I am one of the many who are grateful.

Well shucks :o , thanks Rob. :)

I don’t much care how much “balance” he provides as long as he continues to pay for my lunch :D (albeit, I’m sure on some Sony expense account) whenever we get together.

Fact is, don’t let the “paidgeek” handle fool you. I think he’s almost as much at home ripping thru a chacane at Laguna Seca at race pace........ as he is on the job at Culver City.

He is a man after my own heart! I can't afford to race with the big boys, so I run one of these (0-60 in 3 seconds, 3 G's in the corners!):

I am one of the many who are grateful.
Thanks. :)
Next step, I’ll try to get Mr. Foxy to join the party.

I’m a Hungary Man. :D

Sorry for not reading the whole thread, but is it being re-released or what?

Sorry for not reading the whole thread, but is it being re-released or what?
Not a problem. :)

Read paragraph #3…………..
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9187841&&#post9187841

I would get an exchange if I can. T5E is a classic.

Not a problem. :)

Read paragraph #3…………..
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9187841&&#post9187841


Thank you sir.

This could have been a really cool sci fi movie, but "Ruby Rod" just completely ruins it. It's as if in The Godfather, some naked guy showed up for the entire second half and just farted non-stop.

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzt!!!!

Yes, this is one of my reference movies, but I have NOT bought it yet for BD because I hear the quality is very, very poor. I would love if this was re-released in high quality. The diva aria scene could again be reference demo quality, just like it was for us HT geeks in the earlier days of DVD.

Wow, if true, I hope they allow some sort of exchange program for existing owners.

It's a Sony title. It will not use VC-1 or AVC. It may be a 50GB, though.

It may use AVC. Sony pictures released Open Season using AVC, and it's absolutely beautiful.

EDIT: Whew... I didn't notice the date of this thread. CarloM, how did you find this? ;)

Sony is also using AVC on Casino Royale and upcoming European releases of Blu-Ray discs sold here as MPEG-2. Did they finally "perfect" their AVC encoder or did they pawn the work off to Panasonic Labs, which seems to have the best AVC encoder out there?

Dan

Dan,
Yee of little faith.

How so? Sony said they were waiting until MPEG-4 matured before using it. Now all of a sudden they're switching to MPEG-4. Did it mature in only a few months, or was Sony trying to force feed everyone MPEG-2 because they get royalties from it, but got caught when most people found their early MPEG-2 work to be subpar?

If their encoder actually still isn't ready for prime time, then it only seems logical that Panasonic could be doing the AVC encodes for Sony as they seem to have the best AVC encoder out right now.

Dan

From PaidGeek over in the Insiders thread:

"The new transfer is finished and is a big improvement. We are still planning an informal exchange program for those un-happy with the original release. As part of the re-release, new added value is being prepared and consequently we won't be releasing it until later in the year."

I can wait. :)

How so? Sony said they were waiting until MPEG-4 matured before using it. Now all of a sudden they're switching to MPEG-4. Did it mature in only a few months, or was Sony trying to force feed everyone MPEG-2 because they get royalties from it, but got caught when most people found their early MPEG-2 work to be subpar?

If their encoder actually still isn't ready for prime time, then it only seems logical that Panasonic could be doing the AVC encodes for Sony as they seem to have the best AVC encoder out right now.Sony & MEI announced a new consumer HD camera that uses AVC. Sony's HDCam SR® professional series uses AVC. Obviously all 3 of these AVC coders are different. Also, checkout the patent pool for AVC, I think you will find Sony in there.

Now, it is entirely possible that MEI may be doing the BD AVC encodes. IIRC, Toshiba has a AVC coder and tools for HD DVD.

I just got the March issue of TPV & it Say's in there it is getting re-released and Sony would take any one's old copy in for trade .
Glad to see that.