Yesterday I finally hung my completed Black Flame Light Fusion screen. After it was hung my wife and I were in complete awe. We both couldn't believe what we were seeing. The picture looked sooo good and even with the lights on and sunlight leaking into the room from the two large windows it retained its contrast and the picture seemed to pop out, almost 3Dish. Hard to explain.

We have 2 large windows with blinds but they still leak a ton of light into the room. We also perfer to watch regular TV with the lights on. This BFLF application totally fit the bill.

I ran into some issues early on in the application process applying the mix on to thick. See my posts here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7938963&&#post7938963). After many detailed conversations with MMan he was able to remedy the issue and put me back on track. I also appreciated MMans instructions on how to Wrap Velvet Around Mitered Edges (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=652174). This really made my frame look professional. I really really appreciated it. The same goes with PB. He was always there answering any questions and offering great advice. Thanks again.

I've yet to totally calibrate my Infocus 4805 but from what I have seen so far I am again blown away with the results compared to my bare white wall.

For reference I am using a refurbed Infocus 4805 on low power mode projecting from 14' from a sofa table to a 94" BF SuperLite screen [5/12/2006 mix] (2oz of color components) applied with a roller onto MDF with an 1:.5:.5 UPW gloss:MinWax:Water base coat.

I've included some pics of what the picture looked like on my plain wall in the same perspective. Take these for what it's worth.

Again, thank you sooo much MMan and PB. You two really add superior value to the DIY screen scene. Anytime you're in the central Ohio region, let me know. Beers will be waiting for you :).


http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/FinishedBlackFlame/IMG_0230.jpg
http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/FinishedBlackFlame/IMG_0229.jpg
http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/FinishedBlackFlame/IMG_0232.jpg

For Comparison:
http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/BlackFlameWallAssembly/IMG_0214.jpg
http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/BlackFlameWallAssembly/IMG_0208.jpg

No Ambient Light:
http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/FinishedBlackFlame/IMG_0254.jpg

OMG, I think I just soiled myself. :D

Looks great mynym! That's about as much ambient light as I have in my living room currently.

I found these images laying dormant on a Photo server, forgotten and neglected.

Must have been an oversight or sumpthin'?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/MississippiMan/New%20BFLF%20Creation%20and%20Screenies/AmbientBF-SuperLite.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/MississippiMan/New%20BFLF%20Creation%20and%20Screenies/LowambientBF-SuperLite.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/MississippiMan/New%20BFLF%20Creation%20and%20Screenies/HighAmbientNemoonBF-SuperLite.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/MississippiMan/New%20BFLF%20Creation%20and%20Screenies/VeryHighAmbientSuperLite.jpg

I should have posted the others too but I took those weather channel/Nemo pics before I focused the 4805 properly. As you can see from the pics they look a little out of focus. Sorry :( I'll take some more soon.

This week I have to re-setup my HT around the new screen and play with the features of the Infocus 4805. I should probably start reading the 500,000 posts on the massive 4805 thread for tips. Anyone got a good primer for it?

I'm using an OTA HDTV tuner and such there isn't much HD content broadcasted over the weekend. I'm looking forward to watching Leno tonight. If I can pry myself away I'll snap a few pics.

Didn't I post in this thread? :confused:

Ericglo

Didn't I post in this thread? :confused:

Ericglo


Yeah you did. Yesterday. For some really strange reason I checked this thread this afternoon and all of the responses were removed. Not sure why or how.

Hmmm, I posted last night as well. I requested a dark room shot, I see that it handles ambient light VERY well, how does it look in the dark? Any shots available yet? I have a Silverscreen screen now and will probably get around to the top coat this weekend, or next but who wouldent want bigger and better?

Thanks MM for posting mynym's pics for him.
I still have a small request of seeing half the image projected on the wall and half on the screen if that is not too much too ask .


Looks good mynyn.
What kind of mirror do you have on your Black flame Light fusion ?

Bruce

Wow, I need to do some research. Those light levels look similar to what I deal with during the day and this may be the perfect screen for me. Looking at the ingredient list and directions kinda scares me though.

Thanks MM for posting mynym's pics for him.
I still have a small request of seeing half the image projected on the wall and half on the screen if that is not too much too ask .


Looks good mynyn.
What kind of mirror do you have on your Black flame Light fusion ?

Bruce

There is no mirror involved....., it's a primed and BF-Super Lite painted wall.

Maurice

Why are you posting pictures of other peoples work?

This is exactly the kind of nonsense that must stop. This is what makes this look like an infomercial. This is why people get on your case.

You said you would try a little harder.

How about taking the first step and deleting the stuff you posted, and showing us that this indeed isnt an ego trip, or a sales pitch.

Thanks MM for posting mynym's pics for him.
I still have a small request of seeing half the image projected on the wall and half on the screen if that is not too much too ask .


Looks good mynyn.
What kind of mirror do you have on your Black flame Light fusion ?

Bruce


I'm actually using 1/2" MDF primed with 5 coats of 1:1:1: UPW Gloss:MinWax Poly:Water

As soon as my camera charges back up and I get my HT back together I'll snap a couple of pics of some Stewart samples next to my BFLF. Expect to seem them sometime later this week.

Maurice

Why are you posting pictures of other peoples work?

This is exactly the kind of nonsense that must stop. This is what makes this look like an infomercial. This is why people get on your case.

You said you would try a little harder.

How about taking the first step and deleting the stuff you posted, and showing us that this indeed isnt an ego trip, or a sales pitch.

I could do that, but mynym will only put 'em back up again, or something similar or even better. It was done in a "Tongue in cheek" manner, with mynym's knowledge and foreberance.

Access to those images were in fact provided to me by mynym, and he himself did not post them because they were not what he considered good enough. He "refrained" out of "consideration" so I posted them, warts and all, feeling that by doing so, no effort to make the application look "too good' was being made.

If you try hard enough, you can find fault with anything/everything I do, ya know. :rolleyes:

Consider this; If you would have me stop posting any images altogether, either of my own work (...even with no mention of a "client") or that of work done by others freely shared with me, you are effectively asking me to stop posting altogether. What I do post is intended to help others see the results they can obtain using the same methods I myself advocate as being correct and do-able.

I'm a different animal than most anybody else on this Forum, and I traipse through a different landscape. I'm trying, and will continue to try to avoid the pit traps you and others say lie in my path, but I will not let those "warnings" castrate my right to present information in the best manner possible to relate to others. If that means posting images at times, that is gonna happen.

Was my posting of how to wrap velvet a crime. Under your guidelines, it would seem to be considered as such. I've posted a bunch of info on another AVS Forum about the installation of Tactile transducers, including images, and have received only plaudits and "thank yous", and be certain I make $$$$ on those applications.

No one begrudges info they can use themselves at their own choice when it's given with the right intent in mind. Except here, where my efforts have indeed attracted far more attention, both good and bad.

BTW, If I myself possessed a FP venue at home, (...which I do not because of a unique Barn Home with very low Kneewalls) and did all my "own" screens there and then posted the results, by your reasoning even that would transgress upon your idea of "promotion", even if no mention was made of my doing such to provide myself with the experience to do the same in business, while at the same time doing such to help others feel confident in trying the same for themselves.

And why? because I own a business where I do the same thing for others for income? That more people on this Forum fail to see a conflict or issue with that is very, very plain.

Of that, I have no doubt.

But even so, I do not fail to take note of your objections, especially when worded in a decent manner. More Flys with Sugar isn't just a metaphor.

Your strong feelings are noted, and even respected, but they are not entirely fair or evenhanded in their expectations. I can make a concerted effort to refrain from mentioning "business', but to state to me that because I'm fortunate enough to have such a business, and thereby to not be allowed to share my methods and results with the DIY community is going to far down a personal road toward censorship and the denial of the same rights afforded to anyone who creates a DIY application, who believes it to be a good one, and "promotes" it as being such. Promotion does not mean "selling" in every instance. In DIY, it means believing in your work and efforts. Many here are "guilty" of exactly the same thing, yet never have you seen me post a ditty where I berated them for be so inclined to do so. Only when statements decrying my apps as "snake oil" or when people use personal grudges or opinions like Attack Dogs do I rise to the occasion.

Even then, so very seldom do I ever resort to insulting behavior.

I said I'd try, and I will try to not offend sensibilities that I personally feel do not represent the majority of AVS'ers feelings, simply because when one person continually complains, it attracts others like compost attracts flies. (...no offense intended...just a comparison...)

But the steadfast pursuit of every posting I present, and continual complaints of every single aspect of what/why/How come will not effect a feeling of my having a willingness to comply. If I obviously transgress, have at me. But to do so with impunity and a decided lack of fair play and equal rights will not garner any extra degree of compliance, only serve to create more discord. It won't make me stop "trying", but it sure the hell won't make me try any harder than what is fair and just.

As example, berating me on another's thread is not cool. Neither is my need to respond to such. PMs are for such things. Too much lack of consideration for others is what destroys the Forum's whole idea of community. If my postings offend, hit the "Report: button and let a Mod decide. Or PM me, for I'm nothing if not accessable.

I'll try harder. But so should you, don't you think?

I could do that, but mynym will only put 'em back up again, or something similar or even better. It was done in a "Tongue in cheek" manner, with mynym's knowledge and foreberance.

Access to those images were in fact provided to me by mynym, and he himself did not post them because they were not what he considered good enough. He "refrained" out of "consideration" so I posted them, warts and all, feeling that by doing so, no effort to make the application look "too good' was being made.


I can confirm that I did send MMan these images in an email thanking him directly. I felt that with the amount of help I received from him I owed him a few pics of the final result.

I didn't originally post these pictures myself because my projector wasn't focused properly and since I get charged for hosting images on my own domain I didn't want to exceed my monthly quota. MMan was very kind is hosting these images for me and I thank him again.

Maurice,

This is a DIY forum. The only pictures anyone should be posting are those of work they have done themselves in their own homes. There is no need at all for you to post picture of work you didnt do. There is also no need to post pictures of work that you, or anyone else was paid to do. These become commercial ventures and have no place on this board. I have seen no one other than yourself post pictures of work they didnt do in their own homes, or work they were paid to do. You are the only one doing this.
Posting the same pictures over and over is also unnessasary as far as I am concerned. A simple link to the thread you previous posted them in would do just fine. The sheer volume of pics you post, and times and locations you post them are what makes me question the motives behind them. If you arent promoting, then none of that would be nessasary.

I am honestly trying to give you the benifit of doubt here Maurice, but for some reason you insist of being givin special treatment because you help others and do this for a living.
I know I am not the only one who feels this way, and I am simply trying to present this in the most respectful way possible, so you have an idea of why these problems arise as often as they do.

Ok, I'll try to find some common ground that allows those who WANT to see what I do, and the steps along the way, without continually posting every aspect of the process. Perhaps a Link to a Photo Server. Some will still cry foul, but moe (less really) I cannot do.

But at times, especially when new things crop up, or upon request to do so (XR-10 thread), I'm gonna occasionally oblige. If the frequency of such is drawn down considerably, perhaps that will suffice.

Ok, I'll try to find some common ground that allows those who WANT to see what I do, and the steps along the way, without continually posting every aspect of the process. Perhaps a Link to a Photo Server. Some will still cry foul, but moe (less really) I cannot do.

But at times, especially when new things crop up, or upon request to do so (XR-10 thread), I'm gonna occasionally oblige. If the frequency of such is drawn down considerably, perhaps that will suffice.


I am glad to see that at least we are having dialogue on the subject.

How about posting a series of pics, a photo how to, so to speak, at the beginning of the BFLF thread? That way they are there for all to see, and the need to repost all the time disappears. Other can still post a shot or two of their finished work in the main thread to show off their own "mad skills". This would eliminate the appearance of "commercialism", yet still give those who want to see photos the chance.

This might also help keep the number of threads involving the same screen type down to a minimum, in turn making this forum much easier to follow for newcomers.

It's an idea that might just be the answer. But if I may, perhaps on a new thread, because I can also add elements of application and proceedure that are not necessarily specific to Black Flame.

But that will be a ways off because I'm due to be "on the road" tomorrow AM early.

It's an idea that might just be the answer. But if I may, perhaps on a new thread, because I can also add elements of application and proceedure that are not necessarily specific to Black Flame.

But that will be a ways off because I'm due to be "on the road" tomorrow AM early.


Thats fine by me. I really do think it may stop the BS for good, or at least a month or two ;)

Since the pictures MMan is posting are of my screen and they are in my thread I don't see a problem with it. Seriously. I'm just happy that someone else was kind enough to host the other pics for me.

Carry on.

I am honestly trying to give you the benifit of doubt here Maurice, but for some reason you insist of being givin special treatment because you help others .

biglyle, chill good buddy. MM just bent over backwards helping you out on my thread. Like any poppa, he's proud of his baby and likes to show it off whenever he can.
For anyone agitated because MM makes a buck from his efforts has never calculated how much he's lost posting on this forum. He'd be way ahead keeping his knowledge and time to himself rather than spilling it out on this forum. Perhaps a little ego massage is fair compensation to him.

Nuff said. I'm sure, he'll extend to same courtesy to you when you post your masterpiece.

BTW, where the heck is my 'special treatment'?

I guess I am a little lost here. If MM posts the formula for the screen then what is the harm of posting pics of the screens that he has made or someone else has made using that formula? Am I missing something?

biglyle, chill good buddy. MM just bent over backwards helping you out on my thread. Like any poppa, he's proud of his baby and likes to show it off whenever he can.
For anyone agitated because MM makes a buck from his efforts has never calculated how much he's lost posting on this forum. He'd be way ahead keeping his knowledge and time to himself rather than spilling it out on this forum. Perhaps a little ego massage is fair compensation to him.
Nuff said. I'm sure, he'll extend to same courtesy to you when you post your masterpiece.
BTW, where the heck is my 'special treatment'?


No need to chill, as no one is upset. Just simple dialogue.
Ego massages are for the insecure, and I honestly believe Maurice doesnt need an ego massage. He knows very well were I was coming from, and I him, hence our civil discussion on the subject.
As for my masterpiece, it is already done and hanging in my theater. No need to post pictures of it. If and when I create something new, then I will post info and pics in the specific thread related to that screen.
See how easy this is.

Glad you could chime in ;)

Am I missing something?

Yes, but honestly dont worry about it. It looks we all might actually agree on a few things for a change, so lets just leave it at that.

Yes, but honestly dont worry about it. It looks we all might actually agree on a few things for a change, so lets just leave it at that.

Oh, Pardon me. I thought the forum was public and PMs were for private conversations.

I'm actually using 1/2" MDF primed with 5 coats of 1:1:1: UPW Gloss:MinWax Poly:Water

As soon as my camera charges back up and I get my HT back together I'll snap a couple of pics of some Stewart samples next to my BFLF. Expect to seem them sometime later this week.


OH OK.. I thought you made a BFLF.

No need to go to any extra trouble with other screen samples for me . I just would like to see the pic half on and half off the screen.
I think to get the best comparison from the wall to the screen is have them in the same frame .
I am really curious as to how good the screen looks in direct comparison .

Bruce

Oh, Pardon me. I thought the forum was public and PMs were for private conversations.


Seriously, its nothing. It also appears to have been worked out, so no need to dredge it back up. Its nothing personal, honest. :rolleyes:

Yes, please.


"OH OK.. I thought you made a BFLF.

No need to go to any extra trouble with other screen samples for me . I just would like to see the pic half on and half off the screen.
I think to get the best comparison from the wall to the screen is have them in the same frame .
I am really curious as to how good the screen looks in direct comparison .

Bruce"

Wasn't sure where to post this, and I didn't think it necessarily needed its own thread, but I came across this paint, and thought it might be useful to MM for Black Flame as a reflective substrate--don't know how it compares to a mirror, but perhaps this can help with doing roll-down applications:

http://www.kustomrides.com/chromepaint.htm

Wasn't sure where to post this, and I didn't think it necessarily needed its own thread, but I came across this paint, and thought it might be useful to MM for Black Flame as a reflective substrate--don't know how it compares to a mirror, but perhaps this can help with doing roll-down applications:

http://www.kustomrides.com/chromepaint.htm

Very cool paint. It probably would work super as basecoat substituting the UPW base or mirror. However there is one major prob. The cost. :( 1 quart is priced at $314.95

Nice find though. Anyone else make this kinda paint for cheaper?

I've been aware of this product fer a spell, but aghast at it's expense as well as it's application considerations.
At that price, you can buy a 9' diagonal MIrror, Black Flame mix, Rollers & Tray, Black Velvet, and Trim.
I'd think dealing with Mylar would be far more practical.
My 2 cents.

A shot with no ambient light:

http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/FinishedBlackFlame/IMG_0254.jpg

MYNYM,

I have a question about the paint steps, you said 5 coats of 1:1:1 upw,poly,water as a base over the mdf.
Then, did you apply the BASE Components next and then apply the (2.0 oz) Color Components over it all?
How do you get the 2oz of color coat to cover the screen?

MYNYM,

I have a question about the paint steps, you said 5 coats of 1:1:1 upw,poly,water as a base over the mdf.
Then, did you apply the BASE Components next and then apply the (2.0 oz) Color Components over it all?
How do you get the 2oz of color coat to cover the screen?

Looks like the BF mix that I used (05/12/2006) has since changed according to the Black Flame Light Fusion thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=630888). The old instructions said to add 2oz of color components to the base components. It appears now the ingredients are in parts.

Basically stated I added 2oz of the color components to the Base and Viscosity ingredients which was the receipe for the Black Flame SuperLite mix.

So after I applied the 5 coats of the glossy white mix (UPW:MinWax:Water) I mixed up a batch of BF Superlite and applied 5 coats ontop of the white gloss base if that makes sense.

And for the record after the 2nd coat of BF I wet sanded down the screen using a 3m medium/fine wet sanding sponge care of MMan and PB's advice.

If you have any questions, let me know.

I've yet to totally calibrate my Infocus 4805 but from what I have seen so far I am again blown away with the results compared to my bare white wall.

I have an Infocus 4805. I spent a few hours calibrating it using my neighbors calibration DVD. When I finsished I saved the settings. I flipped back and forth between the out of the box settings and the calibrated settings and they were so similar I didn't even bother to record the calibrated settings.

If I recall correctly you are in the Dayton, OH area, right?

I would be interested in seeing your screen to do a quick comparison with a strip of Polywall that I have, and maybe with a bit of fabric that I have available as well.

PM me if you are interested.

GL

mynym

I see you have your projector setup again.
Would you be able to do a quick comparison shot for me by showing an image half on the screen and half on the wall in ambient light ?


Bruce

mynym

I see you have your projector setup again.
Would you be able to do a quick comparison shot for me by showing an image half on the screen and half on the wall in ambient light ?


Bruce


Strange how this request is being quietly ignored...

Strange how this request is being quietly ignored...

Not really ignoring, more like delayed a little. hehe.


Seriously. Sorry for not posting the bare wall shots sooner. The room that houses the projector is in limbo. I'm awaiting new cables and a JoyTech 420C component switch. I took awhile trying to figure out which one I wanted. As soon as my HT is setup I'm planning on taking some shots of the barewall, firehawk G2, studiotek 130 and Greyhawk. Bare with me. again sorry it's taken longer than I originally thought.

How embarrasing!

.....and here we all was a thinking ya had supthin' ta hide...., or mebe nuthin' ta show.

But how very thoughtless and inconsiderate of you for having other things to do!

OK, then. We're even. Right?

I'm kidding of course. But usually and eventially everýone sits both sides of the fence. first "searchin for answers and decisions", then on to "doing/done it". Then others in the "SFAAD" dept. (...can be very impatiant when anxious for info....) want info and effort akin to the levels that I dispense.

......and I can't always get back to or initiate plans as promised either. Sometimes to a fault. :(

Giving a person his BOTD (benifit of the doubt) due often fall away to one just "doubt" when excitement / expectation rise.

Well I've been to and from that Well over a couple 100's times and even when freely helping, the choosing of what to do and when isn't alway governed bythe schedules of others.

Instead I must hope for understanding...., and usually I get it. But not always. :sad:

And so we come to see that the Author has bigger plans afoot as far as comparisons are concerned.

I'll wait for all that, done nicely.

As soon as my camera charges back up and I get my HT back together I'll snap a couple of pics of some Stewart samples next to my BFLF. Expect to seem them sometime later this week.

Why is it embarassing? mynym stated by the end of last week. What's wrong with following up? No expectations, just plain old asking wha happened.

And on that note MM, how are you making our for next week's comparison?

I have an Infocus 4805. I spent a few hours calibrating it using my neighbors calibration DVD. When I finsished I saved the settings. I flipped back and forth between the out of the box settings and the calibrated settings and they were so similar I didn't even bother to record the calibrated settings.

If I recall correctly you are in the Dayton, OH area, right?

I would be interested in seeing your screen to do a quick comparison with a strip of Polywall that I have, and maybe with a bit of fabric that I have available as well.

PM me if you are interested.

GL

I'm actually in Columbus. How far away are you ?

I'm actually in Columbus. How far away are you ?

Troy (north of Dayton) ... I might be out your way for a Buckeyes game this fall ... and quite possibly August 19th (a Saturday)

GL

Why is it embarassing? mynym stated by the end of last week. What's wrong with following up? No expectations, just plain old asking wha happened.



I WAS kidding, but if you want to disect it, the comment "Strange how this request is being "ignored" doesn't speak of anything but a mild 'bait', not a "question". But it WAS mild enough to rate a "tongue in cheek" response.

Butcha know, it really wasn't anything worth carrying forward after my reference to it being a joke..

As for next week, I'll most likely do the smaller task I mentioned. The larger endeavor must wait until after my surgery and upcoming trips (Late Aug/early Sept.)

Troy (north of Dayton) ... I might be out your way for a Buckeyes game this fall ... and quite possibly August 19th (a Saturday)

GL

I live in Columbus(New Albany) also and if you and gonelong set up a time this Saturday... I would love to come check your screen out. I believe I sent a PM a long time ago, but with no reply. I'm in the process of making a few screens and any help from someone who has already done it would be great.
~Nathan

mynym,

Any chance you can post those half wall, half screen, screen shots in ambient light sometimes soon?

Many are very anxious to see the results.

mynym,

Any chance you can post those half wall, half screen, screen shots in ambient light sometimes soon?

Many are very anxious to see the results.

I would like to see them as well.

Yawn. As I just stated in another post, I don't think we're going to be seeing many more comparison pictures. Oh well.

Sorry guys.

Again. I've been real busy with stuff. Spent the entire weekend putting together these desks. Didn't realize it would take so long.

In any case, I haven't forgetten. I really just need some time to go down and set it up and take the pics.

Awww......,
That was just 'ol "me" talkin' again.

He get's a round.

Sorry guys.

Again. I've been real busy with stuff. Spent the entire weekend putting together these desks. Didn't realize it would take so long.

In any case, I haven't forgetten. I really just need some time to go down and set it up and take the pics.


honestly, it would only take minute? You seem to have plenty of time to post "other" pics?

Still waiting.

Is there a step by step writeup to duplicate this badboy? I have a cave setup, but my parents use their H27 on a white screen and have ambient light almost all of the time, with the room lit almost all the time. Its 10% of the time in the dark, so this looks like a great solution to their problem. Thanks!

I used Mission313's Guide (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=53356) as a base but substituted it out with 1/2" MDF and instead of painting the border black I decided to wrap it in velvet. And of course the Kilz for Black Flame. Since I used the heavier 1/2" MDF I went with the french cleat method for hanging it on the wall.

If you have any questions, let me know.

Another post and no pictures?? Whazzzzz uppppp?

Another post and no pictures?? Whazzzzz uppppp?


just a guess, but i'd say that the picture requests aren't gonna happen. :(

You are a wise person Dogllama. I can tell just from your name!

just a guess, but i'd say that the picture requests aren't gonna happen. :(



DOG
I guess we will have to settle for your BFLF comparison screen shots :)
Bruce

Things are getting a bit suspicious. :confused: This same thread was started over at the Lumenlab forums. Same pictures, same questions, same no answers.

As promised, I finally had some time to take a couple of quick comparison shots.

For reference:

Black-out cloth far left, Stewart Greyhawk, Firehawk and Studiotek 130 in the middle and my BF screen on the right.

Sorry for taking so long.

http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/album46/IMG_0414.jpg
http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/album46/IMG_0412.jpg

hey thanks for living up to your word!

not to rain on the parade though, could we get some more pics? this time head on?

you can't really get a good idea of things when the pictures are taken from an angle, it messes with the lighting (which should be pretty even over your test area if you are to get an accurate idea of the picture)

also, not to harp, but can you throw something besides animation up for the tests, animation looks good on everything because its CG.

the best pictures to show while testing are pretty evenly distrubuted throughout the entire frame, like a establishing shot, or a landscape. something that has the same color and brightness showing over all the test frames.

thanks! :D

~D~

Thanks mynym! Just one more request...can you hang the samples as flat as possible? Please and thanks.

Hey, your screen looks great! While I agree with the need for the on axis shot, something other than animation, and the materials as flat as possible, I think from these you can clearly see a difference. Nice work. :) And do it on *your* timetable ... life is always more important than forum time. Just know that there are people getting schooled from your examples. Like me ... the noob on the block.

Nice shots. Some shots from lord of the rings (daytime and night shots) or the matrix would be nice if possible.

Hmmm, from those pics it looks like nothing works worth a fiddlers fuk in ambient light.

The screen can help some but the only real solution is to reduce the ambient light. There's no way around it.


Thems the facts jack

Thanks for the pics mynym . :)

I just wanted you to twist your projector a quarter inch to the left then try to take the same focussed straight on shots of the same screen shots you originally did . I was hoping you would do this and show us how great your screen is over the wall !!
Too bad your screen is not that great other wise you would have jumped at the challenge to REALLY show off your new screen directly compared to your wall .

Bruce

The fact that you did not do a straight on comparison of half wall and the screen in the same shot should show newbies all they need to know.

Too bad your screen is not that great other wise you would have jumped at the challenge to REALLY show off your new screen directly compared to your wall .

Bruce


Bruce, why do you always have to be so negative? He obviously has a nice screen and is quite happy with it. We all want better screenshots, but you should respect people if you want to be respected back.

If it means anything I was born and raised in Ontario too!

Bruce, why do you always have to be so negative? He obviously has a nice screen and is quite happy with it. We all want better screenshots, but you should respect people if you want to be respected back.

I guess it sounded a little harsh I am usually having a little fun and come off sounding more blunt and pissed than I really am .

Dog didn't you get a painted Black flame in the LA clinic ?


Mynym I do not really care that much , but if you are showing off the screen again with some pics an easy to do shot that really gives a good example of great an ambient screen is over a wall is to project half the image on the wall. People then cannot blame exposure or other camera attributes to the screen shot comparisons from different pictures .
Mynym if you really don't want to do any more comparisons tell me to *&^% off . I will get not offended . :)


Bruce

Dog didn't you get a painted Black flame in the LA clinic ?


Yup. Got me a big ol' BFLF at the LA clinic. I was interested to see how other non LF BFs performed.

I like my screen, but it is not quite what I expected. Still very decent though.

~D~

Yup. Got me a big ol' BFLF at the LA clinic. I was interested to see how other non LF BFs performed.

I like my screen, but it is not quite what I expected. Still very decent though.

~D~

Dogllama - Just curious, what about the BFLF was not what you expected?

Dogllama - Just curious, what about the BFLF was not what you expected?

The ambient light performance was really talked up. I do think that for the price of construction, BFLF peforms admirably in aimbient conditions, but I was expecting much more. I'm running the AE900 with 100 inch image at around 13 feet. btw.

Got some pics?

Was it painted on a mirror or the acrylic substrate?

Nice comparison, from the pics it looks pretty good. Probably the best way to compare them would be to get all the different screen materials stick them to a thin carton and hang it over one half of you screen and then take pictures from the front.

Got some pics?

Was it painted on a mirror or the acrylic substrate?

Here are the pics I took about a week after I put it up.

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/7524790

It is painted by MM on an 1/8 inch acrylic mirror.

Are the pics with a light on or is it sunlight? (What time of the day were these taken?)

Are the pics with a light on or is it sunlight? (What time of the day were these taken?)


light. night time.

Hey DOG,

How you been...long time.

Glad to see you still have your screen, you do right? I too have mine still.

I am not going to put down my screen as it serves me well. I was the host of the LA Clinic and did expect better ambient light performance; however, other than going to a much higher priced true black screen it does very well compared to things like a FireHawk. With that said, I have removed a couple of my track lights and pointed them away from the screen and onto the side walls and now I can have plenty of light and better performance on the screen for watching HD sports and TV. But honestly movie watching for me is only acceptable in the dark....I suppose you could watch one of those nice colorful CGI animated flics in some light but beyond that your wasting your time.

With that said, I am going to buy the new Panasonic PT-AX100U and my thought is that once I throw up 1500 to 1800 lumens up on that 122" BFLF I will be able to have my 4 track lights up all the way and have a very punchy picture for watching HD sports and general TV watching. Again, I still say movie watching will be done in the dark, but then again I am lucky enough to have a dedicated room with good light control so I can do that.

With that said, I am going to buy the new Panasonic PT-AX100U and my thought is that once I throw up 1500 to 1800 lumens up on that 122" BFLF I will be able to have my 4 track lights up all the way and have a very punchy picture for watching HD sports and general TV watching. Again, I still say movie watching will be done in the dark, but then again I am lucky enough to have a dedicated room with good light control so I can do that.

Good to hear from you DangC, I feel the same way, but I sacrifice quality for lighting when watching TV or playing vid games with friends. Playing in the dark is just too dreary sometimes.

The PT-AX100 looks nice. Proj.Cen. gave it an amazing review, but if I were you I'd wait until the PT-AE1000 comes out since it will be natvie 1920x1080 instead of a 1280x720 upres.

Good to hear from you DangC, I feel the same way, but I sacrifice quality for lighting when watching TV or playing vid games with friends. Playing in the dark is just too dreary sometimes.

The PT-AX100 looks nice. Proj.Cen. gave it an amazing review, but if I were you I'd wait until the PT-AE1000 comes out since it will be natvie 1920x1080 instead of a 1280x720 upres.

I was honestly all set to go the 1080P route this time but once the PT-AX100 came out I changed my tune. The reason I did this was because honestly I need light more than anything else and since none of the new 1080Ps are going to give me light I decided to buy this new nice bright new 720 for about $1500 to $2000 less than the 1080Ps and wait and see if any brighter 1080Ps will come out that will work with my setup.

The improvements I wanted were:

1. more lumens (122" grey screen needs more light)
2. less noise at min. required brightness (have to run in high mode all the time with no dynamic IRIS, actually IRIS wide open via service menu tweak)
3. Less SDE
4. 1080P would be nice but honestly I have seen for instance a Ruby in my house on my screen and it was not bright enough....I would have to change screens to higher gain screen. Also going to 1080P from 720P is not as big and improvement as you think...it is there with good 1080 source material but not night and day. Biggest difference is reduced SDE and very good shadow detail, two stregnths to SXRD in general.

I figure I will get 3 of the improvements I want and I think the extra lumens will make the biggest improvement for me (more so than 1080P). I am hoping that this projector will be a big hit and they will come out with a 1080P with the same number of lumens. If not I will wait for 1080P DLP to fall in price and buy something like the upcoming Benq W10000 for movie watching in the dark and keep the AX100 for day time viewing and standard TV shows etc.

Go Dan!

I'm already looking to replace 1 of the PJs I'm currently using in my Home Show (Z4) with a Panny by this weekend. That machine is made to order for BFLF and BF-Board/Wall applications, and I expect "glowing' reveiws.

I'm sure it will make mucho difference as far as your current situation is concerned.

Good luck!

I was honestly all set to go the 1080P route this time but once the PT-AX100 came out I changed my tune. The reason I did this was because honestly I need light more than anything else and since none of the new 1080Ps are going to give me light I decided to buy this new nice bright new 720 for about $1500 to $2000 less than the 1080Ps and wait and see if any brighter 1080Ps will come out that will work with my setup.


I can't say I blame you. I just took a look at the lumens for AE1000 and you're right, its a lot less than the AX100.

Bummer, I was really hoping that it would be brighter.

I was planning on getting the PS3, so I think 1080P would be worth it for me since both the video games and Blu-Ray would be 1920x1080 native. I know it's hard to see a diff between 720P and 1080P, but when you are sitting as close as I am to your screen, you can definitely see the diff. :rolleyes:

I wonder if the lower lumen outputs from the projector make a big difference for the BFLFs? I mean there has to be enough light to penetrate the paint going to the mirror, then again bouncing back through right?

So maybe the reason why our screens ambient performance is mediocre compared to expectations is because of lumen output compared to paint penetration. Just a thought.

~D~

D,

maybe. but then again maybe the culprit is you two guys have the very first of the BF screens to be made. much has been improved. the screens have gotten lighter without the use of upw (which might be causing some of your washout) and of course brighter... and with that... increases in gain and contrast do make a difference. i'm getting excellent results without the use of an acrylic mirror... or light fusion as we currently know it. of course, mm would say that what works great without an acrylic mirror can only work better with it.

right now, i'm testing using a viewsonic cine1000 in low mode... or about 425 lumens as tested by projector central.

next up will be a hitachi txj1000 LCD at a manufacturer rating of 1200.

maybe the culprit is you two guys have the very first of the BF screens to be made. much has been improved. the screens have gotten lighter without the use of upw (which might be causing some of your washout) and of course brighter... and with that... increases in gain and contrast do make a difference.

possibly, but I'd like to see some screen comparisons between the old mix and the new mix before I'd agree with this.

if you'd be willing to send me a sample pane, I'd love to put it up next to my screen and snap a few pics. what do you think?

i'll try to do that soon. i've got a couple of things on my plate right now... such as newborn twins and fixing up a foreclosed home... but please pm me your address and i'll try and get a couple of samples to you.

...oh and i'm also working on a new ambient screen prototype. ;)

i'll try to do that soon. i've got a couple of things on my plate right now... such as newborn twins and fixing up a foreclosed home... but please pm me your address and i'll try and get a couple of samples to you.

...oh and i'm also working on a new ambient screen prototype. ;)


Yes, I imagine you do have your hands full right now. Congratulations on the twins!

I'll PM you my address. And if anybody else wants me to put up samples or snap photos of something when I do this test, just let me know and I'll do my best to accomodate.

Can't wait to here about the new ambient screen prototype...

Hi all,

My PT-AX100 will be here tomorrow.

I will try to do some before and after pics to show the difference in performance between my Sony HS51 and new PT-AX100 under the same conditions, ambient light, and camera f-stop and shutter speed.

...oh and i'm also working on a new ambient screen prototype.


That is good news . Is it a Diy formula or do we have to buy it ?

Bruce

Bruce,

it's not so much a paint formula as it is a design concept i've been wanting to try... which is sorta why i'm calling it a prototype. actually, i'm not even sure it will even work!? for now though, i prefer to sorta keep it to myself so as not to be ridiculed for even thinking of trying such a crazy idea. i will say that should it have any promise that probably very few folks in the DIY community will not even attempt it... and secondly, because it won't be a cheap off the shelf paint mix solution... you will actually have to build it. but then again, given the fever of the rgb, wilsonart, and smx folks... i won't put it past them.

...actually, i was sorta hoping my slip up would go away without anyone noticing. :o

Go Dan!

I'm already looking to replace 1 of the PJs I'm currently using in my Home Show (Z4) with a Panny by this weekend. That machine is made to order for BFLF and BF-Board/Wall applications, and I expect "glowing' reveiws.

I'm sure it will make mucho difference as far as your current situation is concerned.

Good luck!

MM, sent you a PM....

Hi all,

My PT-AX100 will be here tomorrow.

I will try to do some before and after pics to show the difference in performance between my Sony HS51 and new PT-AX100 under the same conditions, ambient light, and camera f-stop and shutter speed.


Hey Dan,

How's the new projector? Does it help the BF at all? Would love to see some snapshots.

~D~

Hey Dan,

How's the new projector? Does it help the BF at all? Would love to see some snapshots.

~D~

My early reports are that the higher lumens makes a huge difference in ambient light performance on this screen. I am now able to do what I had originally hoped to do when I first looked into the BFLF screen. I can watch a 122" screen with all four of my track lights on in the room. The picture is bright, vibrant, with good color.

Other positives about the AX100, smooth screen with very sharp picture. Theater modes add filter to enhance black levels and improve color balance for dark room movie watching. Living room modes remove filter to provide for a bright picture in ambient light.

One disappointment is that once you ceiling mount the projector the fan noise does increase to a noticeable point for me....But maybe I just need to get used to the new sound of this projector.

Bright vivid picture is addictive though.

My early reports are that the higher lumens makes a huge difference in ambient light performance on this screen.


Higher lumens will make a differance in ambient light on any screen.

Higher lumens will make a differance in ambient light on any screen.


Absolutely it will! It is funny really, over here I get people telling me it is the lumens and in the projector forums they say that the screen is what makes the biggest difference for ambient light performance when talking about this projector.

I say that what really makes the difference is lumens combined with a screen that has some ambient light rejection. I will try to do some comparisons but I am sure that this screen will provide better blacks, and richer color that is not washed out compared to the average mat white screen. Compared to the average grey screen well I don't know and I don't really care, why because I spent less than the average commercial high contrast fixed screen and the picture is fantastic!

A few more pics:
http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/FinishedBlackFlame/IMG_0468.jpg
http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/FinishedBlackFlame/IMG_0393.jpg
http://www.derekreynolds.com/gallery/albums/FinishedBlackFlame/IMG_0460.jpg

Awesome screen!

Few interesting pics over here near the end of page 3:
http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13897&st=40

To me it seems the mix is no better than the grey wall?? Anyone else see it as better? I'm rather suprised how poorly it is showing compare to some other pics that have been posted of similar screens.

Few interesting pics over here near the end of page 3:
http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13897&st=40

To me it seems the mix is no better than the grey wall?? Anyone else see it as better? I'm rather suprised how poorly it is showing compare to some other pics that have been posted of similar screens.

Yeah, I asked that question over there today. I asked if there was a greater difference in person because when looking at the picture it doesn't look better than the wall.

I've seen various pics of this mix and it seems to vary greatly, make one wonder if its the conditions and projector more so than the mix itself. And it is rare that we see a side by side comparison of it with anything until these pics.

Perhaps we could chip in some $ and buy a sample for tiddler to use for his comparison pics...

the user at lumenlabs says his screen is better than his light grey wall. so if you discount that he says his screen is brighter, has greater contrast, and is visually more dimensional that his grey wall... both of which are in front of him at the same time... then you can pick apart his screen shot. actually the color of his grey wall is darker than his screen, so the image on the wall should be darker than they image on the screen... but that is not the case which means the screen is performing adequately for a DIY projector that's pushing a max a whole 150 lumens (if that...)

the user has maxxmudd screen with about 1/2 an ounce of colorant in it... hence the screen is very light in color. truth is, at 150 lumens the metallics are very inefficient which is what a maxxmudd is all about.

of course with the image he used you'd be hard press to find much of difference in ANY screen. but since we have no real frame of reference... i will have to take the user's word for it. he is happy with his upgrade and that's really the spirit of diy.

the user at lumenlabs says his screen is better than his light grey wall.

????? Looks the same to me.

????? Looks the same to me.

Me too. Perhaps pb or mm can post a direct comparision of the same image projected onto two materials, even an UPW or BOC sample jsut so we can see the difference...

other than the user's poor screenshot... it's funny to see how easy it is to discredit what the user says... even though he has no reason to lie about what he see's in front of him... as he is the only one with a true frame of reference.

surely you have seen the images that i've posted with comparison to parkland polywall.

they are on the first page of the deltamoon project.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8387127&&#post8387127

surely you have seen the images that i've posted with comparison to parkland polywall.

they are on the first page of the deltamoon project.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8387127&&#post8387127

I see no pics there now, can you repost them?
Are they a single image showing both materials in a single shot from one projected image?

it appears the hosting service the pics reside on is currently down...

and yes, they are of the same screen shot, with two different screens compared, and projected at the exact time.

other than the user's poor screenshot... it's funny to see how easy it is to discredit what the user says... even though he has no reason to lie about what he see's in front of him... as he is the only one with a true frame of reference.

surely you have seen the images that i've posted with comparison to parkland polywall.

they are on the first page of the deltamoon project.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8387127&&#post8387127

I don't even see a post from you on the Deltamoon thread until near the bottom of page two... Are you sure this is the right spot?

prof55,

they are the screenies of mine that tiddler has posted. the free web hosting service they are on www.myfilehut.com appears to be down at the moment.

i'm at my day job right now... so until i have access to my home computer (if they are still on there somewhere)...

Ah, I remeber those now, as I recall it never said what they were for any of the items and were only for the bottom corner of an image if I recall correctly, but perhaps I'm thinking of somethign else.

mynym - Could you post a pic of the Uno screen with half on BF and half on the wall? We would just like to see a comparison shot showing both at the same time so as to better judge the improvement from the BF. Please and thanks!

pb_maxxx - Any chance you guys are going to have screen samples you can send out so we can see how your solution works in our setups as a comparison?

Schooner2000,
I don't know if PB_ has any such plans, but please make contact 'privately' (via Email off our Site) with such requests as asking for such "on Forum' and recieving a reply about such portends toward "promotion".

And please delete your request, as I will also delete my reply soon as well.

Thanks.
MM.

I have no intent of deleting the post, the issue came up here and is valid. If it is not part of valid discussion then perhaps you or pb shouldn't be discussing your commerical mixes.

The request was for a sample so as to compare to other DIY solutions, the same as many compare to other commerical screens.

Posting a sig with a link to ones commerical site would be seen as more promotion than my simple request IMHO. And keep in mind the title of this thread is "Very Happy With BFLF - Thanks MMan/PB" which has a number of pics of BFLF in it.

You mentioned "Ordering" so you dead wrong on this issue. Delete it, or it will be reported. I'll not have such as you be resposible for others taking issue about valuable threads straying toward forbidden issues.

I asked nicely.

Stop being so damn confrontational.

And I said nicely, it is on topic considering this thread is about a supposed BF customer. All I asked is if you are goign to make samples available. I'll remove the word "order" but that it a minor point.

Stop trying to control threads please and thanks.

It OK for everyone else to do so, but not me, eh? Even with provocation and justifiable reasons?

Sorry, it just isn't a "One Way Street". As I said, I made a request, asked nicely, and your final response is certainly acceptable, for it was indeed the "ordering" refernce that could of caused the issues to be brought forth.

Thank you.

It OK for everyone else to do so, but not me, eh? Even with provocation and justifiable reasons?

Sorry, it just isn't a "One Way Street". As I said, I made a request, asked nicely, and your final response is certainly acceptable, for it was indeed the "ordering" refernce that could of caused the issues to be brought forth.

Thank you.

"provocation" ??? I asked if you would have samples, nothing more. A simple yes/no would suffice. It is not a witch hunt. Either you are going to provide samples so people can comapre your commerical soluntion to their setup or you are not. Nothing less nothign more. People just want to compare for themselves as the request for screen shot comparisons have gone unanswered.

Actually, I'd like a FREE sample of a swatch from MM/PB_Max... the other commercial companies do it, so it would be beneficial if you guys did do too.

A simple search of the DIY forum will lists companies' screen being compared to DIY formulas.

-T

Hello all,

Just so everyone knows. I just recieved a tile (Courtesy of PB - thankyou) painted with the latest BF mix.

I have a BFLF painted by MM himself.

I plan to do some comparison shots soon between my BFLF, the new BF test panel, and my wall.

If anybody else would like to send me a sample or has suggestions on something they would like to see let me know.

Hopefully this will set things straight for good on the merits of these mixes.

Also, I will be starting a new thread when I do the tests, I think we've hijacked this one quite enough...

~D~

Hello all,

Just so everyone knows. I just recieved a tile (Courtesy of PB - thankyou) painted with the latest BF mix.

I have a BFLF painted by MM himself.

I plan to do some comparison shots soon between my BFLF, the new BF test panel, and my wall.

If anybody else would like to send me a sample or has suggestions on something they would like to see let me know.

Hopefully this will set things straight for good on the merits of these mixes.

Also, I will be starting a new thread when I do the tests, I think we've hijacked this one quite enough...

~D~

Looking forward to the results. I'd like to see maybe a UPW sample or a neutral grey in the mixof tests. How big is the sample?

just to set the record straight...

this thread is by an avsforum member who made his own black flame mix using the exact mix that is currently located on the first page of the deltamoon project.

hope that clears the confusion.

----------------

now with respect to doglamma's sample... it is very light and is geared more towards a dedicated theater than it is towards high ambient light

secondly, it is not a light fusion sample.

even with those two handicaps in place... i still feel the pro's will outway the con's vs doglama light fusion screen.

Looking forward to the results. I'd like to see maybe a UPW sample or a neutral grey in the mixof tests. How big is the sample?

The test panel that PB sent me is about 1foot x 1foot.

Thankyou for clearing up the mix btw PB, I knew it wasn't a light fusion sample. What is the material it is painted on? The mix is still considered a BF (albeit a much lighter) mix correct?

At this moment I do not have a panel for UPW or neutral grey, but I agree that both would be interesting to see in this matchup. Unfortunetly I live in an aparment in Los Angeles and do not have the materials or painting space to make these panels come into being.

Anyone willing to make a donation to the cause?

~D~

PS- I have created a new thread enititled "Black Flame Comparison Tests". Since this is really a different beast we are tackling, I think we should give it it's own space. Thanks.

pb Maxx wrote "this thread is by an avsforum member who made his own black flame mix using the exact mix that is currently located on the first page of the deltamoon project."

Yet I see these same pics are up in the CUSTOMERS gallery on MM's and PB's new website.

Oh what a tangled web we weave.

I'm a bit confused, it doesn't say on the other site that the pictures in the gallery are DIY versions, isn't that a little misleading to people coming to the site?

Well Pete, your link isnt allowed per the rules either, or this thread as it stands. So I wouldnt exactly be pointing fingers as to what is on or off topic if Iwere you.

Oh OK I get it now. This thread is a complete farce imo and should be deleted as it is clearly part of the BF infomertial, your website makes this more clear than ever. You are selling both BF and Your Maxx mudd mix making both commercial products. To top it off you are linking people to your site via your signature. Its nice to see a couple of guys take such advantage of AVS and all the leeway they seem to have afforded you.
You guys have really become a priceless couple. Hopefully Alan will clear this up once and for all and make this forum commercial free, they way it belongs.

So I see PB has deleted his most recent posts. You should be ashamed of yourself for utter disregard for the rules of this site.

Oh OK I get it now. This thread is a complete farce imo and should be deleted as it is clearly part of the BF infomertial

Uhh hold on there. As I am the original author of this thread I can clearly state I have NOTHING todo nor support anyone’s commercial paint venture.

As you should already know (reading my original post) I used the open source BF mix that I personally mixed up myself. In fact if you look at the original post date you will note that the commercial version of the mix was not available until weeks after I had already completed, framed and hung my screen. I see no problems with this.

Again, don't look to deep into this. I am nothing more than another DIYer who is happy with their screen and I am very grateful of PB and MMan helping me along the way.

Apparently this is a problem for you and such the only advice I can give you is to ignore this thread all together.

Well then it looks like you have a case against PB's new website.

What an act.

What an act.

The Act is you!

Don't be such a blowhard....we are well enough informed.... example: as the election next week... to sift through all the BS and and make INFORMED decisions. I personally do not need you wasting space trying to point out issues that I already know exist. Give us some credit. You are not the DIY police.... but rude behavior make you seem.........disgrunted.

These forums are full of speculation, hope, trial and error, wrong turns, right turns...but the end all is getting information out...if it is promoting Wilsonart, DO-Able, GOO, Black Flame, Stewart...who cares...its ALL the information in these forums that we sift through that allow us to make informed decisions to bring into our home based upon price and usability..... Take a chill pill.. contribute and stop being so angry and defensive..

I do have one proposal but I doubt Alan and Dave would allow it, but maybe they will... it would solve some 'issues'... Allow any vendor that wants, to start and maintain ONE and only ONE thread for their product. They of course would be allowed to participate and help in other threads, but the minute their product is mention or pushed in any thread but their own, their company thread is removed and that privilege is revoked. To me that makes a lot of sense and it satisfies people's desire for direct questions to the manufacturers to get quick and personalized answers. Think about it, an official Goo thread, a DIYTheater thread, XFS thread, and Liquiscreen thread, and yes... SMX should have their own thread... that would help the company's image and relations and provide a service to the members. Unfortunately Marxism on paper is considered a perfect utopia too, so as much as I would love seeing something like this, I also know it probably wouldn't work...


This is common practice on many other types of forums, especially PC hardware/software forums. Forums are split so the discussions can focus on specific manufacturers, sometimes they being directly involved themselves, and the main forum is meant for general topics. When the topic comes up on the general forum it is moved accordingly and I think the same could be done here to prevent alot of the current issues. I would however do it as a subforum, off the main screen forum so it is clearly seperate and noted as being commerical in nature. The only issue I see is that these companies may not be paid AVS sponsors and it is up to AVS to decide how they make their money to support the cost of runnign this site and allowing free commerical use to those not paying may not look good to those that do (hence why commerical posts are not wanted in general I beleive).

Also the posting of commerical signatures with links to commerical sites is also against forum rules and also is tpyically considered ethically wrong; posting a link to another forum inside a forum is plain wrong be it against rules or not and needs to end as well as it is only meant to draw people to another site, in this case for clearly commercial reasons.

Reported

Can anyone tell me how I can make such an incredible screen?

ditto. where are the instructions and updates to the mix and how to create such a screen?

ditto. where are the instructions and updates to the mix and how to create such a screen?

Its called Delta Moon now. See thread below

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=719584

i really don't like the 'delta moon' name much... how about a name change?

I didn’t name it I just report the facts.

Any suggestions I’m sure Tiddler will change the name.

Delta Moon would seem to indicate “the change in the moon” and as the moon changes it gets darker out so I guess that’s it.

For my projector I think I would need the “new moon mix”

How about "BF DIY Mix"

How about "BF DIY Mix"

Because BF is a commerical product now. The DIY mix needs to be seperated so as not to cause confusion.

How about "BS DIY Mix" :D I am just kidding of course.

Actually, the use of the term "DIY" in front of Black Flame is all that is really necessary. That, and a concerted effort by everyone to NOT keep bringing up the reference to the commercial version in rebuttal.

It was that specific effort to continually do so that prompted Tiddler to change the name, and basically that's only caused both some small degree of confusion and a lack of reference.

I suggest that the name revert to it's DIY origins and everybody just keep a level head about it all.

All I know is I ever come up with a screen that works well with low lumen projectors it’s going to be called …… Bud-lite……. :)

So don’t take that name…….

Actually, the use of the term "DIY" in front of Black Flame is all that is really necessary. That, and a concerted effort by everyone to NOT keep bringing up the reference to the commercial version in rebuttal.

It was that specific effort to continually do so that prompted Tiddler to change the name, and basically that's only caused both some small degree of confusion and a lack of reference.

I suggest that the name revert to it's DIY origins and everybody just keep a level head about it all.

I suggest it not revert to the commercial name as it is misleading and thought by some to draw attention to the commerical version. Why would anyone name the commeriail the same as the DIY version is beyond me if not meant to confuse on purpose? Since the commercial version is just that and patent pending I suggest it not be mentioend as such in the DIY version as it will only lead to headaches and ongoing discussions such as this. It is easy to talk of keeping "level heads" aboutthe original name when one has a chance at financial gain from such confusion.

There was an extremely strong statement that previously and vehemently stated that the DIY version would not be supported or discussed anymore. That is part of the problem. Unless that statement is being retracted now, which would be fine, it's confusing when one thing is said when details are asked for, and then later there is a change in feeling and the DIY version is discussed, but only up to the point of what is in it and how to make it. Part of the discussion though since this is DIY is any changes that are done to the mix, and when it was asked what changes were done in a darker mix being used (that was stated as an older DIY version) the question was never answered.

There was a new thread started to continue the DIY version but under another name so the commercial product was distanced and separated from the DIY version. That name was not liked (mainly by the creators of BF), which is irrelivant seeing it was intended to keep the DIY version alive with no confusion of the intent of the discussion.

I'm not totally sure what you meant when you said "I suggest that the name revert to it's DIY origins" As far as I know and have seen Black Flame has always been called Black Flame or BF for the DIY version. It's one thing when an average member mentions the name, but when the proprietors bring it up it instantly links the two together.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with the DIY versions being discussed, but if questions are asked about the mix they need to be answered or that really changes the tone of the conversation and how it it perceived as far as its intentions.

i cand believe the picture i just am finishing an addition i was looking a the planar screen the glass screen having a hard time with 3000.00 just screen please call me collect i would love to talk to you i have a hard time sittion at the computer i live in pain i need to get off my computer now my leg is killling please call me 860 693 1878 mark would love to talk to a person this typing is killing me i will try to get back here i dont know i am doing pills make me forget

Can't believe it's coming up on a year

Mynym...I'm getting ready to setup my living room with an Epson 1080 Home Cinema, and though it's supposed to be one of the brightest 1080p projectors out there (thus why it really appeals to me, instead of the similarly prized Panny AE1000..that and the price), it's still not as bright as the AX100. I was wondering how far back do you have your projector at?

Just trying to get a reference, as I'm going to have mine sitting a bit away from the screen (18-19 ft) and it will be 50/50 daytime/night time viewing.

Mind any if I interact? I'm certain Mynym's PJ is no further back than 13', but that is only a guess. At 19.5 ' with the Epson 1080 HC you'd get 13 Foot Lamberts on a 110" - 1.0 gain screen, and 19 FL @ 1.5 gain

The latter figure is the easiest to accommodate as far as Ambient Light issues are concerned. If your no going larger than 110", a light hued Silver Flame (BFLF) on a Mirror will get the job done very well. Any smaller an image size and it just becomes easier to deal with, and less expensive too.

Mind any if I interact? I'm certain Mynym's PJ is no further back than 13', but that is only a guess. At 19.5 ' with the Epson 1080 HC you'd get 13 Foot Lamberts on a 110" - 1.0 gain screen, and 19 FL @ 1.5 gain

The latter figure is the easiest to accommodate as far as Ambient Light issues are concerned. If your no going larger than 110", a light hued Silver Flame (BFLF) on a Mirror will get the job done very well. Any smaller an image size and it just becomes easier to deal with, and less expensive too.

Thank you for the response.

I think I'm going to "settle" (lol, I can't believe I just thought of having a 100" screen in my living room and referred to it as "settling") for either a 100" or 106" inch screen. A 100" screen should be roughly 93" x 52", which IMO, should be plenty big enough. Moreso the size, I'd rather trade that extra 10" or so inches for better viewing during daytime.

What do you mean by "BFLF on a mirror", if I may ask? Right now, I'm basically torn with getting a 106" Elite EZFrame HC Gray or ordering a BF Expanded PVC white (live in Florida so the Mirror one and the framed one are out of the question for me).

"BF" refers to the "old' name given to the same mix that is called Silver Fire now, and is usage is the same thing on a "Mirror" as the "paint" on the BF PVC your referred to, only with the latter you depend only upon the PVC's degree of reflectivity, not the obviously more effective reflection a Mirror affords. When a Mirror is used, the application becomes what is know as "Light Fusion". So you can instead refer to it as "SFLF".

In the size you want, a Mirror is ALWAYS available. Your figures are wrong though. A 98" diagonal screen is 85" x 48". There are loads of 'em residing over Fireplaces, and that size is pretty much ideal for utilizing all the lumens ya got and still maintaining a decent sized image. With your Epson, as long as you avoid "DIRECT" light spillage across the screen's surface, you'll get fine ambient light viewing .

I've personally observed 82" diagonal screens in the same situations, and they look huge in living/Family room environments. And being even smaller, they reflect light all the more efficiently.

The smaller you go, the easier it is to accommoate your particular needs. And the PVC Screen will certainly get the job done at under 100 ".

After researching further, I'm starting to lean towards getting the BF PVC because a) I don't have enough faith in my DIY skills b) it's cheaper c) shipping should be rather painless (I heard it ships on a tube...much easier to receive than a 87x49 framed screen.) d) I don't have the room nor the equipment to DIY

So that being said, in looking at some DIY solutions posted in the forum for a frame, I found some people suggesting that painting the area around your screen black helps contrast and gives more of that "pop" effect. This is really not an option for me, as I can't paint the walls (and definitely not just a part of it lol).

Another solution I saw had people using velvet or velveteen cloth to wrap their frame.

With that, I came up with this possible solution that might work for me. What I'm thinking is, instead of painting the area around the screen, I can just surround it with velvet/velveteen fabric (roughly 3 inches around) and use velcro to hang it (I believe Nathan Troutman made a thread utilizing velcro as his "mounting device".

While at my local Joann's store, I also saw and thought that vinyl might be easier to "stick" on the wall. Would there be any drawbacks to using vinyl instead of velvet as a border?

While at my local Joann's store, I also saw and thought that vinyl might be easier to "stick" on the wall. Would there be any drawbacks to using vinyl instead of velvet as a border?


You need something that absorbs the light ... Felt/velvet has fibers that stick out and form little "light traps" Anything that is slick or very smooth will not work very well...

You need something that absorbs the light ... Felt/velvet has fibers that stick out and form little "light traps" Anything that is slick or very smooth will not work very well...

Thanks swatkins. I thought that might be the case. Back to Velvet/velveteen then =)

Black Velvet fabric is better.

Check out the info on the least expensive Black Velvet available on the best thread pertaining to such.

Here's a specific Post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9599544&&#post9599544

Sorry for the late response.

My projector is 14' from the screen. Based on the Infocus datasheet and the research on this thread for my 94" screen 14' was optimal with no lens zoom.

Black Velvet fabric is better.

Check out the info on the least expensive Black Velvet available on the best thread pertaining to such.

Here's a specific Post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9599544&&#post9599544


Thanks for the link,,, I just ordered 7 yards :)