Everybody is expecting Infocus to announce its 1080p 1-chip DLP at Cedia EXPO next month. Is there any leaked information about it's spec/features yet? Rumors? Likely release date? Anything to get excited about?

This is the first I've heard of it. If they *don't* enter the 1080p market, the "Is Infocus Doomed?" thread takes on greater relevancy.

TA

They have a "IN78" 1080P PJ due out but not sure if it is going to be at Cedia or early next year.

Aren't they typically 6-12 months behind everyone else?

On the rumour mill - yes they are behind. They do not engage in the rumour mill on the forums - and neither do dealers.. Look at the Optoma H81 - coming out at CEDIA but only shipping to select dealers and reviewers after the show - most likely not volume until CES - but heavily discussed on this board since the last CES. Suppose Infocus did come out with it at CEDIA and started shipping in October - no different than Optoma - are they behind the curve because BobW was not on here discussing it for the last nine months? Indeed that possibly may not happen - because Infocus did not want to take a shortcut using a biz cased OEM&scaler to get to market first - rather they will design an HT projector suitable for their market. BobW only comes on here to discuss released projectors -- and not what he may or may not be working on at the moment. Dealers have known what they planned to show at CEDIA since shortly after CES.

Infocus had the exclusive on DarkChip2 480P with the SP4805 for six months - and everyone else was behind the market there. They had the exclusive on the Faroudja 48Hz feature - which nobody else even came out with. So saying they are behind the market - is not correct. They might indeed take their time designing models that will last a couple years - rather than six months till closeout.

Kras,
You are living in the past man.
To have to go back to a 480p projector to show how "cutting edge" a company is not going to sway anyone's mind.

What have they done for us lately?
Not much.

1080 DLP's are already shipping, and now Sharp just set their ship date for Oct. 1st. Others, no doubt, will also be here within weeks to months. Are the Marantz and Sharp models going to be crap because they were "rushed" to market as you suggested?

If Infocus has a 1080 model for sale in '06 then I will admit I was wrong. But if not untill '07 (as is likely), then once again, Infocus is at the tail end of the curve.

I quess that the next month or so will tell who is correct.

You again gave an opinion without a factual basis - so I came up with two counter examples off the top of my head. Do you have any facts for your opinion that Infocus is 6-12 months behind everyone else?

Were Sharp and Marantz models discussed on here for nine months? Again I did not mention those in my example - so please stop saying I suggested something that I clearly did not. But if you want an example from Sharp - they came out with their DC3 projector a year after Infocus did - yet another counterexample to your opinion - and regarding current high-end models. Of course their failure to produce a DC3 led to AVS rumours that they were exiting the projection biz (and of course CES proved that false) - yet I don't recall seeing you championing that idea - would it be because you own a Sharp?

Dan Miller did not come onto the boards to discuss their 1080p until it was in reviewers hands. Nobody from Sharp has come here to discuss theirs- so it must not exist as far as AVS is concerned? Infocus is not the only one to not discuss in the public marketplace what they may or may not be designing.

If you were in the market for a 1080P and had a working relationship with an Infocus dealer - you would know what they know. Not every Infocus dealer is out to screw their customers with an expensive Bose system like yours did - so why the hostility towards them?

As Donald Rumsfeld just responded to Hilliary's questioning...
My goodness.

Where to begin,

1. I thought they were behind based on their recent history. In fact, over the past year they have done squat. Unless you call introducing a "play big" line which even most dealers think is inferior to the 7205/7210. How old is that line now, 2-3 years? Maybe more rebates will help them sell more.

2. Yes, the new sharp 1080 model has been discussed on here for months. And now it looks like its less than 2 months from ship. Maybe they took a "shortcut" to get to market like you suggested. Who knows? But I bet it will be a good product none the less. Too bad Infocus doesn't know some of those "shortcuts". Maybe that would help them sell more.

3. Sharp doesnt even need to sell projectors to stay in business. Unlike you know who. You would think that a company that either sells projectors or dies, would want to be at the forefront on new technology and market trends. Maybe that would help them sell more.

4. Again, the rumors, specs, etc on the Sharp 1080 have been available for quite some time, at least 6 months or so. Maybe that will hurt Sharp sell that model....uh no, I quess not.

5. No, not every Infocus dealer is out to screw you. Just the 3 in my area that I dealt with. Yet I still often rec. Infocus models (as I did within the last few days) if I think that they have a model that would fit the posters needs. So, you see, no hostility toward Infocus at all.

In fact, I will be sad to see them go.

For my part, if Infocus comes up with an excellent product at a good price, I certainly don't mind them being 3 to 6 months later with it. I do like the fact that their pj's are BRIGHT.

Look at the Optoma H81 - coming out at CEDIA but only shipping to select dealers and reviewers after the show - most likely not volume until CES - but heavily discussed on this board since the last CES.
The H81 certainly takes the 2006 FUD award. people were talking about it shipping in Q1 '06!

Guys,

Answer the original question "anyone have any info on the 1080p Infocus"; use PM for the rest of the stuff.

-Mr. Wigggles

There will be limited distribution of 1080p DLP units by every manufacturer...not a fault of the manufacturer's but rather a limited supply of the chips.

Sharp just set their ship date for Oct. 1st.

Do you guys know something more specific than what is contained in the Sharp January press release?

" The XV-Z20000 will be available in 3Q 2006. Pricing is not yet determined."

The H81 certainly takes the 2006 FUD award. people were talking about it shipping in Q1 '06!
I'm not sure what the various Optoma cheerleaders have said but the lead engineer on the project in January after CES said on this forum: "and since HD81 is schedule to hit the market in Q2".

The end of Q2 is June 30th so the projector is now officially 5-6 weeks late and likely won't start to show up for another couple weeks.

Now back to the Infocus...

-Mr. Wigggles

Why would manufactures like SIM2, Marantz, and Projection Design be first to market? You'd think companies with the size and clout of InFocus, Optoma, and Sharp would have led the way.

In Focus like other manufacturers are tight lipped about their up coming new products. The loose lipped manufacturers that are talked about here so often are catering to their audience. The internet is their market as their products are mostly sold there. InFocus has worked hard to try to maintain a good relationship with the custom install field and therefore benefits little by talking up their stuff to folks less inclined to support them anyways.

As for the InFocus 1080P DLP yes it is in the works. That is all I am able to say other than in about 1 month the world will know about a lot of 1080P DLP offerings. It's a good time to be alive and soon will even be better.

For me I look forward to 2008 as I hope by then HD-DVD and BD will make good products and software and we will have some good 3 chip DLP projectors to watch it with.

This thread is more or less on hold until CEDIA.

Allen,
SIM2, Marantz, and Projection Design are "mostly sold on the internet"? I don't think so. You've got it backwards: InFocus is widely distributed and the others are mostly sold by specialty dealers and higher-end custom installers. The InFocus that finds its way into the custom field does so through a wide variety of distributors. This gives them a longer pipe line and the ability to move more tonage. Hence my question as to why such a high-volume
manufacture wouldn't be among the first to get the 1080p DLP chip from TI.

If you are TI - who do you want to get your flagship chip first - especially a new one that maybe needs to ramp up on yield? I would want it to be the ones who can best show it off - the statement reference pieces on your list for a steep price - I don't think Allen was referring to your list. The value priced systems would fall into place after that once the volumes are in place to support it.

This is no different than the Qualia, Ruby, Pearl progression that Sony is doing. Same chip different prices for the projector as they learn to make more at less cost.

This is no different than the Qualia, Ruby, Pearl progression that Sony is doing. Same chip different prices for the projector as they learn to make more at less cost.
Small correction, the Qualia uses a different chip ( gen 1: 3,000:1 CR .79" SxRD) vs Ruby, RPTVs, and Pearl ( gen 3: 5,000:1 CR/ .61" SxRD ).

I personally will be very interested to see what InFocus comes up with to enter the 1080p foray. Having been an IF customer in the past and owning several of their projectors, I have always been very pleased with their performance and value. I agree with their philosophy of product design which seems to be just the right mix (for my tastes) of brightness and contrast. Their firmware is always well debugged and allows for a high degree of user control. The units come from the factory calibrated to D65 and look great right out of the box.

I also owned the much heralded (in this forum) Optoma H-79, and once both projectors were properly calibrated, the differences in picture quality were not worth mentioning, yet the IF 7210 was roughly twice as bright, making it the better choice once the lamp started dimming. The Optoma was also much buggier in its operation and the unit required much calibration to get it to perform at its best. The only area where the Optoma truly bettered the 7210 was in the quietness of the fan. If Optoma and InFocus release 1080p single chip DLPs in the near future, I would be far more inclined to buy the InFocus before considering another purchase from Optoma.

Even though I am a Ruby owner currently, from what I have heard about the single chip 1080p DLPs (the statement pieces) with their fantastic ability to resolve detail, I will probably buy another single chip DLP in the future. I have a couple of problems with the units that are out now and some that are soon to be released - BRIGHTNESS. I want a brighter projector than they offer, and I want it for under $10k (that's my personal magic number), so I am hoping that InFocus will bring something to the table to please me once again!

I personally will be very interested to see what InFocus comes up with to enter the 1080p foray. !

Agreed. They have bright projectors with very competitive pricing. Maybe they are waiting & watching everyone else and will launch a sleeper for a great price.

Pete

Being first to market with anything is not in general the best place to be. If I were a manufacturer I would like to be about 3-5 months behind to see if I could be better for the same or slightly lower $$$. This would set a pattern in the market to wait for me to come out with something most would be willing to wait for and the market would have the attitude...."Yah the first ones out are nice but I'm waiting to see see what Allen's going to release. His stuff in the past has been better and cheaper in cost. Good Value stuff. :)

This teaches the market to wait for me as I have an excellent track record and worth waiting for. Not that the other guys don't have good stuff too, but when you are spending this much money it is nice to know your options. :)

I was not a real fan of the Ruby. Over time this units warts have become common knowledge. Now the rest of the warts are coming to light, ie softness due to budget lens and now the bag is off of the face so to speak. Will 1080P DLP have no warts? NO. But we will see what is up Ti's sleeve and now Sony needs to do one of two things. Make it better or make it cheaper. Looks like the latter is the case. Great for those with small budgets but there is always a place for quality.

Those with the means will strive for it and those without the means will lust after it.

The way I see it, buy the most you can afford as it will yield far less buyers remorse. It will wear better in the face of newer technology and thus can survive another gen or two before upgrade-itis hits you hard, :)

Allen,
SIM2, Marantz, and Projection Design are "mostly sold on the internet"? I don't think so. You've got it backwards: InFocus is widely distributed and the others are mostly sold by specialty dealers and higher-end custom installers. The InFocus that finds its way into the custom field does so through a wide variety of distributors. This gives them a longer pipe line and the ability to move more tonage. Hence my question as to why such a high-volume
manufacture wouldn't be among the first to get the 1080p DLP chip from TI.

Because there is always a market for quality, real or perceived, and the margins on quality are higher. Boutique makers like Marantz and Runco are probably first out the gate because they probably have more money and don't need to rely on tight margins in a hyper competitive field to recoup their investment.

Being first to market with anything is not in general the best place to be.
Right! I would rather be last and let everyone else hang themselves first!
If I were a manufacturer I would like to be about 3-5 months behind to see if I could be better for the same or slightly lower $$$.
I would rather wait 3 to 5 years...by then I'd bet the cost of the DMDs would be down and I'd have all the bugs worked out.
This would set a pattern in the market to wait for me to come out with something most would be willing to wait for and the market would have the attitude...."Yah the first ones out are nice but I'm waiting to see see what Allen's going to release. His stuff in the past has been better and cheaper in cost. Good Value stuff.
There are boatloads of people who will be willing to pass by all of the competing products because they know that you build the best, and the best is always worth waiting for. They can live with their 720p machines for months or even years longer.
This teaches the market to wait for me as I have an excellent track record and worth waiting for. Not that the other guys don't have good stuff too, but when you are spending this much money it is nice to know your options.
The longer people wait, the more they will appreciate the fine job that you do, as by then they will know ALL of the available options. Being last to market has its advantages!
I was not a real fan of the Ruby. Over time this units warts have become common knowledge. Now the rest of the warts are coming to light, ie softness due to budget lens and now the bag is off of the face so to speak.
For the last 7 months it has been the finest 1080p projector available for under $10k...still is. Oh yeah, that's right...It's the only one.

I honestly don't know what your intentions were with that little speech (if you weren't joking, that is), but I fear it is not as persuasive as you might think. The InFocus 72XX series projectors represented "middle of the road" pricing. They were never the cheapest best bang for the buck units nor were they the best no compromises projectors either. Even the SP 777 was $30k until competition came in at a lower price point. They established a niche for themselves as bright projectors with reasonable contrast. I like them, and I would buy another one if their 1080p entry has the right combination of brightness, contrast, features, and flexibility, but don't fool yourself, I will neither wait forever for them to introduce a unit, nor will I hesitate to buy a competing product if they don't deliver what I want. The only reason I am willing to wait right now is because I have been enjoying that "wart ridden" 1080p Ruby for so long now that I am not as anxious as others to move up from 720p. And I'm probably one of the biggest InFocus fans around here.

Just wondering,

Does Allen really think that Infocus is a company that can "teach the market" to wait several months on new technology? Companies don't "teach" the markets, its the other way around.

I just hope that Infocus is still around in several months.

Just wondering,

Does Allen really think that Infocus is a company that can "teach the market" to wait several months on new technology? Companies don't "teach" the markets, its the other way around.

I just hope that Infocus is still around in several months.

Remember, this is from the same thought process that believes Sony and InFocus form a good comparison as business entities and strengths in the marketplace. (I was privately informed who posted that nonsense earlier).

"If I were a manufacturer I would like to be about 3-5 months behind to see if I could be better for the same or slightly lower $$$."

If you were a mfgr you would know that the 3-5 mos isn't enough to develop a product.

No but it is enough time to tweak abit.:) If your design is that far off the mark it is not going to fare well any ways.


I was using a hypothetical example and not real world examples.

Bob I at first liked the SXRD prototype that Sony had demoed in the huge black box about a year before the Qualia 004 came out.

As the Ruby appeared it became obvious that it was a price driven piece which is what Sony wanted to do. They now look to continue to lower the price with the pearl. If so, then the potential SXRD is not one of absolute quality but rather of compromised quality at an significantly lower price.

Good mid-fi product but not the state of the art.

In fact in some ways the Ruby has hurt the state of the art as it has fed the less knowledgable distorted video images and they being less informed think it is perfect. That's Ok at some level but as an ISF calibrater and a videophile I want , no , expect my video displays to play by the rules which sadly the ruby has trouble doing and can never do with the auto iris on.

That it is priced right is the single most important thing going for the Ruby, something not missed by Sony and I am sure the DLP crowd of builders as well.

It does however leave the door open rather wide for the DLP folks to price their product higher as it may well play by the rules better and also look better. If the early released pieces are any indication of whats to come. :)

As I said last year the TI prototype demos of 1080P were far better than the Sony demos both 1080P and their 4K commercial piece. Sony has enjoyed an relatively empty 1080P market but that is all about to change. Interestingly the 720P DLP's have continued to sell well in the face of the Ruby. These 720P units IMO looked better and had fewer overall issues. This may have been the reason for them doing well.

I understand the desire to get to 1080P. It now looks as though there are good reasons to recommend it to others.

I too am dismayed that Sony has failed to adhere to the "rules", and has blown away the competition. How dare them? Where is fair play, and who is going to punish them for the crimes they committed? Is there no justice?

Allen said, "720P DLP's have continued to sell well in the face of the Ruby. These 720P units IMO looked better and had fewer overall issues. This may have been the reason for them doing well."

The 50% price drop in some of these units may have also played a role. Just maybe.

As the Ruby appeared it became obvious that it was a price driven piece which is what Sony wanted to do. They now look to continue to lower the price with the pearl. If so, then the potential SXRD is not one of absolute quality but rather of compromised quality at an significantly lower price.

Good mid-fi product but not the state of the art.

In fact in some ways the Ruby has hurt the state of the art as it has fed the less knowledgable distorted video images and they being less informed think it is perfect. That's Ok at some level but as an ISF calibrater and a videophile I want , no , expect my video displays to play by the rules which sadly the ruby has trouble doing and can never do with the auto iris on.

That it is priced right is the single most important thing going for the Ruby, something not missed by Sony and I am sure the DLP crowd of builders as well.


For the last 7 months it has been the finest 1080p projector available for under $10k...still is. Oh yeah, that's right...It's the only one.


Dang, Bob - I used to think you were a knowledgeable poster... I guess all those PJ comparisons you did and the interesting posts about loss of lamp brightness at earlier-than-expected hours of usage, etc etc were all fluff...

Aren't they typically 6-12 months behind everyone else?
Actually, they were the first to market with an HD2 PJ, the SP7200 so I would say, "No."

Hey InFocus!!! ... I'm ready to upgrade from my SP7210.

So where's that D65k optimized DC3 15,000:1cr 1080p single chip light cannon???

I mean, really. No kidding. You still solvent or what? :confused:

Hell, I'd still buy if it were only 10,000:1 ;)

Looks like game, set and match for df4801.