Alan,
This sounds smart. I was concerned about an addional 2' in width over that. One of us needs to get a Titan or SIM in for a demo and calibrated and see what happens to the light after a few weeks of use.

Art

Rene,

When using a MicroPerf screen, the EQ is not always necessary- Snell has a circuit built into their AMC-2000's crossover that is designed for placement behind THAT screen material.
CAT also has a "standard" crossover modification for placement behind a Stewart MicroPerf screen. -So that doesn't eliminate the use of the Stewart screens with high-quality speakers.

Art/Alan, Can I volunteer for the "task" of living with a TITAN 1080P-250 for a month? It'll be rough on me- but I'll do it for the "good of the forum"......I'm so giving, aren't I?
:D :D :D :D

Dan

I've been demoing the Projection Digital Model Three 1080 (1-chip DLP) this week. A 2-bulb design with manual iris and dimmable bulbs. This model is 2500 lumens. They also do the Cineo which is the same design with 3000 lumens.

On my 15' wide 2.35:1 0.95 (0.8?!) gain Screen Research screen I got 18fL in the 16:9 area at full open iris and full bulbs. Blacks were mediocre at this setting. Dropping back to 12fL gave much better blacks. But closing the iris further to 10fL gave great blacks in my room. 8fL even better blacks but now I'm starting to miss the light output. For my new room 10fL is about right - 12fL actually seems too bright, and 10fL benefits from better blacks.

With the Cineo I'd be able to close the iris even further for even better blacks while maintaining white levels.

On my screen it is clear that I need 2500+ lumens to account for calibration at D65 and bulb ageing. So the Titan 250 doesn't have enough light for my setup. The 500 does, but at what cost? I'm not convinced that DLP is ever going to give us the contrast we want anyway and will perhaps be eclipsed by new technology, LED, SED, Laser, etc. So for now I will buy, and live with, a great 1-chip compromise and wait and watch to see how projectors develop before buying the next solution.

Cheers,

Mark

Mark

Maybe the Sony 4k needs a test drive in your theater :)

On my 15' wide 2.35:1 0.95 (0.8?!) gain Screen Research screen I got 18fL in the 16:9 area at full open iris and full bulbs. Blacks were mediocre at this setting. Dropping back to 12fL gave much better blacks. But closing the iris further to 10fL gave great blacks in my room. 8fL even better blacks but now I'm starting to miss the light output. For my new room 10fL is about right - 12fL actually seems too bright, and 10fL benefits from better blacks.
Hi Mark,

did you calculate any contrast ratios? I am interested in the wide open setting (both bulbs) and the 10fL setting.

Art/Alan, Can I volunteer for the "task" of living with a TITAN 1080P-250 for a month? It'll be rough on me- but I'll do it for the "good of the forum"......I'm so giving, aren't I?
:D :D :D :D

Dan


Dan,
I have no strings to pull but if there is a need for ( or should I say any use for :D ) nominations you get my vote. :)

Art

I also want to post this for folks who don't click on links.

This is MarkH's new theater ! :cool:

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/500/Seating.jpg

I also want to post this for folks who don't click on links.

This is MarkH's new theater ! :cool:

I need to go change my shorts.... :eek: :D

Hi Mark,

did you calculate any contrast ratios? I am interested in the wide open setting (both bulbs) and the 10fL setting.

I did, but after measuring them all I noted that the black level was identical (0.007fL) for 8fL and 12fL, while 8fL was most definately visually blacker, meaning that my sensor has no accuracy (Gretag Macbath Eye One) at such low levels (not a surprise) and the results are meaningless. Sorry.

I'd be interested to know how others are making their CR measurements...

Mark

I did, but after measuring them all I noted that the black level was identical (0.007fL) for 8fL and 12fL, while 8fL was most definately visually blacker, meaning that my sensor has no accuracy (Gretag Macbath Eye One) at such low levels (not a surprise) and the results are meaningless. Sorry.

I'd be interested to know how others are making their CR measurements...

Mark

You need to move the sensor very close to the projector, maybe 3 feet or less.

Mark,

You would need very expensive equipment to make accurate CR measurements from or at the screen with black at those levels. The Minolta LS100 and Photo Research PR705 will go to .001fL from the screen, but the results would still be inaccurate. The way to do it is with a cosine receptor close to the lens or a fiber optic lens coupler.

Does that projector adjust only the lens aperture or also the illumination system aperture? If only the former, it can be optimized further if you are willing to give up the adjustability. Also, is the aperture shape a cat’s eye type or symmetrically round? Again, if it’s the later, there is room for improvement by replacing it with a fixed, optimally shaped aperture.

Starting to get OT now... as far as I can tell the projector only adjusts the lens aperture and it is the round type...

Cheers,

Mark

Mark,

In general, going from round to the optimized cat’s eye shape will increase CR without decreasing light output. It’s round only because it’s easier to adjust. Also, the illumination system aperture, without adjustability, is matched to the largest lens aperture. With smaller lens apertures, it can be decreased, again without giving up additional light output.

If you can decide on a white level target and can sacrifice the adjustability, you should be able to reach a significantly higher CR than with a lens aperture adjustable design.

The lens aperture change can be done by any competent large format camera repair shop with machining capability. It’s easy to specify the shape, but the orientation may be difficult. The shape for the illumination system aperture is the same, but again, the orientation is important and not obvious. The best way to do this is to have a unit custom made.

I have experience with this only with 3 DMD designs, but I am fairly sure that it applies fully to single DMD projectors. Darin should be able to confirm this.

Hi Mark

Buy the trichromat or a simular sensor that you can point at the projector.
Place it as close as possible and do your contrast measurments.

Rob

I did, but after measuring them all I noted that the black level was identical (0.007fL) for 8fL and 12fL, while 8fL was most definately visually blacker, meaning that my sensor has no accuracy (Gretag Macbath Eye One) at such low levels (not a surprise) and the results are meaningless.You could get a CA813 for maybe $160 that would be much more accurate than the Eye One for CR measurements, in my experience. It is only for light levels (not color) and you can basically put it close to the projector to get readings that are high enough for black to give pretty good accuracy for CR readings.

There are more expensive ways you can go (like the Minolta LS100), but just for CR I think the CA813 is a very good option. I tend to use it for those instead of the Minolta LS110 I can borrow, but have checked that the two agree pretty well. With either Minolta there are ways to help the accuracy also. Like putting the projector very close to the screen to make the images bright, putting some kind of diffuser in front of the lens and pointing the Minolta at that, etc. The main key is to not be down at a really inaccurate range for the black level reading. And there are more advanced ways if the CR is too high (like measuring 20 IRE and 0 IRE close to the projector and 100 IRE and 20 IRE far from the projector and multiplying the two ratios to get the whole CR), but probably aren't necessary with the right equipment and some care.

--Darin

:D Lucky me, time is at no charge for me, it's a hobby only.

You're convinced the 250 is adequate for a 200"x85" screen? See this:

# Screen Research (SR)? Measured gain = 0.8 (not 0.95 as they say)

2000 ANSI x 70% nett x 0.8 gain = 9.5 ftL
(200"x85") / 144

# With Stewart I can use MicroPerf screens with different gains:
1.3 (=11.9ftL), 1.5 (=17.8ftL), 1.8 (21.4ftL), 2.0 (=23.8ftL) in same formula.

I prefer SR above MicroPerf because of none EQ is needed. But than it's only 9.5ftL...

Still saying the TITAN 250 is right for me? :confused:

You mentioned a upgrade path to future models, you say 800. This is what DPI can offer? Is their design really that modular?

Regards, Rene

Bon Jour,

Although the Titan at CEDIA was quite brighter than what I had expected in order to achieve the high contrast ratio it did, more brightness will be desired in a very large negative gain screen.

If your theater wont be ready for another year then fine wait for the super high powered TITAN 1080p 800(?). It will have the exact dimensions and lenses of the Titan except the chassis will be 6 inches longer.

If your theater is ready this X'mas get a 250, it will produce an outstanding image albeit a tad dim on that size screen, but with the option of rolling into the larger Titan at a later date.

Something’s awry here.

Yes, the heading of this thread is DPI Titan 1080p-500 projector, yet more people that saw all of the high end projectors at Cedia are telling me that the Sim2 was their stand out choice. And interestingly, when pressed some who speak so highly of the Titan 250 in this thread say that their favorite was probably the Sim. One concern affecting some ‘home shoppers’ decision is light output, and for reasons not quite made clear, the Sim seemed to throw more light.

So, assuming price is not a consideration, (don’t give me, “on the one hand, and then on the other hand” crap), which is it, the Titan or the Sim2.

I have stated 23 times that SIM2 has never ever taken the care of filtering the lamp source to clip the excessive green and blue peaks like DPI does. I have also stated that there is a cost in light output when you filter the lamps.

I believe you are referring to Art. He saw the 13 foot wide SIM2 demo with his choice tape and was blown away, fine but from the smaller SIM2 presentation I felt that the color is consistent with previous SIM2's, which upon close scrutiny run out of red very quickly if you increase the contrast setting.

I believe both projectors, as well as the Runco equivalent have the exact same lamp, any differences in brightness need to take into consideration if the PJ manufacturer is filtering the lamp or not.

The short Answer to me: If you care for color accuracy it's the TITAN 250.

Mark,

can you please explain the differenes between Projection Design Model Three 1080 and the Cineo Model? Also can you give a more detailed comparison of these projector to the Titan? Is Projection Design going to release any 3-chip projectors anytime soon?

Cheers

I can say that the DVision 1080p that was shown at CEDIA was projecting on a six or seven foot wide image as opposed to the Titan's 8 to 9 foot wide. While they did a great job at calibrating, and the1080p resolution was great what is evident when comparing them side by side (actually over under)was the Titan's superior color (in color depth ,1 billion colors distinguishable by the naked eye vs. 16 million, and in calibration, linearity, and MTF). The Titan also had the edge both in on/off and Ansi CR. I do think that nonetheless I would take the Dvision 1080p over the Titan 720p, so the 1080p factor still weighs heavily. The Dvision 1080p is a great projector for watching films, the Titan1080p is that and more, it's a virtual reality box.

As far as Mark's theater, I think such an awesome theater deserves a great 3 chip dlp from the go. I would have put a second mortgage on the house to accomodate the 3 chipper, but then again, that is the homeowners prerogative.;)

Charris,

The Cineo is identical to the Model Three but has 3000 lumens instead of 2500. The extra lumens will allow me to close the iris further for better blacks as well as allow the bulbs to age a bit longer before I need to replace them.

Cineramax,

Don't worry, a 3-chip or something better will find it's way to the room soon enough, but for now I'm starting with a great and *available* 1-chip. I then have the freedom to demo replacement candidates while still being able to use the room NOW.

Mark

mark h

i saw the pictures from your cinema.
very very nice.
its like a black box (like my one)with some nice styling.

for me its very important to have a room that CAN show cr. above 2000:1.
most cant show it and that make it senseless to use high cr. pr.

The Dvision 1080p is a great projector for watching films, the Titan1080p is that and more, it's a virtual reality box.




Cineramax:

Could you expound on the "that and more" part of the qoute

Thanks

after my return from my 3 weeks :) holiday i talk again with
the sales director from dpi uk about
the titan demo that they promised in my cinema for november.

the bad news is that
they can not get the chips from ti so they delay the start of the production
to febr. 07.

seams that cedia is a big success for them because they get a lot of orders
already for the home cinema version with 2000 ansi and 6000:1 cr.

all talking about a model that have the ceramax xenon lamp in for next year
is "loud thinking" not more.
this model is not at the roadmap at the moment.
same for a possible model that have 3500:1 cr. with 3500 ansi that i post.


if the information is true and i have no doubt that this is the case all
other manufacturers like cristy and sim 2 have "may" the same problem to start
production. :mad:

seams that my test at home qualia/ 3 chip dlp can not be made this year :mad:

This is unfortunate. I would have liked for you give us your thoughts. After seeing the Titan 250 and the SIM2 HT 5000 ,at CEDIA ,at some length, with familiar material I can say that they are great devices to be sure.

Art

Cineramax:

Could you expound on the "that and more" part of the qoute

Thanks

To recreate film look 16 million colors bandwith seems sufficient, this projector has a gyga something color bandwith, largely without the color inaccuracies of similar UHP PJ's, it can recreate reality. Don't expect that out of a single chipper.

for me its very important to have a room that CAN show cr. above 2000:1.
most cant show it and that make it senseless to use high cr. pr.

2000:1 rooms a challenge? You can easily see the difference between 2000:1 and 20000:1 in a room with white walls and white ceiling (not with all material but suitable material). The challenge is to have the room not interfere with any kind of material.

Mr. Mayer has always said things like that, and it just doesn't make sense! I'm pretty sure he's been challenged on that before... I certainly agree with you, mhafner...

I was going to comment on that. I think doing the front half (walls and entire ceiling) of the room in black velvet is good, but the entire theater is a bit of a stretch. One can use other material with deep colors (wenge wood grids, black slate counter)and bring some structure and texture into the space.

2000:1 rooms a challenge? You can easily see the difference between 2000:1 and 20000:1 in a room with white walls and white ceiling (not with all material but suitable material). The challenge is to have the room not interfere with any kind of material.

did you try it?

i did it last month with a ruby and with a pansonic 900.
we did the test with normally dvd material at the living room(very bright all white walls) of my friends house.
he have the panasonic pr. i bring my ruby.

than we do the same in my black box cinema.

I'm not even sure if everyone here is on the same page. Sequential CR is essentially room independent.

Art

There isn't a single HT projector available with 2000:1 ANSI CR, so W.Mayer is most certainly talking about sequential. And of course, Art, you are right; wall color doesn't affect sequential CR materially; just ambient light.

However, the lighter the walls, the darker the test material must be in order to reveal differences in on/off CR. This is what mhafner means that suitable material must be selected. With a light-colored room, you need a very dark scene to reveal those differences. For medium and bright scenes, the reduced ANSI CR will dominate.

http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4545635&highlight=W.Mayer#post4545635

The above post is just one of the many times W.Mayer has been challenged on this claim---and in this case, the challenger (DarinP2) has done more study and actual tests with regards to CR than anyone on this forum.

Aything that lowers the effective floor (considering the effect of actual venue ambient light pollution) will be beneficial to the sequential contrast ratio so Art's statement is not absolutely correct, reason for which Michael qualified his agreement with Art by using the word materially. The lower number matters, wether the sequential contrast ratio is a fixed range or not, achieving absence of light (lowering the visibility) of 0 ire is important.

2000:1 rooms a challenge? You can easily see the difference between 2000:1 and 20000:1 in a room with white walls and white ceiling (not with all material but suitable material). The challenge is to have the room not interfere with any kind of material.

did you try it?

i did it last month with a ruby and with a pansonic 900.I've done it between a 20k:1 Ruby and a 700k:1 CRT in a fairly light colored room. The differences are obvious in quite a few scenes (with the CRT showing the much more realistic blacks). When there isn't much light coming off the screen (since the scenes is on the dark side), there isn't much light to get reflected back onto it.

Heck, just put up a really dark image with the Ruby and then put your hand between the projector and the screen. The difference between the "black" from the projector and the "black" from just the reflections should be very significant. This is of course without having other lights on. Turn other lights on and it is a different story (the on/off CRs off the screen are no longer the numbers above), but we were talking about room color here as far as I know.

--Darin

I agree ! My point was that room reflections in some fashion are the killer of ANSI not so much with sequential. I think that Wolfgang has not considered this fully in his projector CR numbers which is the issue or has confused the two to some degree. Unless we are at the extremes, say under 15% APL, ANSI is very important.


I will also say that in a light controlled room, even with reasonable control of reflections I can see a gigantic difference in what a projector that throws a 5000:1 sequential looks like compared to a 2000:1 device.

Art

my point is very simple.
i like to point out that the room IS IMPORTANT.
i read here so much about about cr. and beside some very
knowledge people here many think that is is a big difference
when you have let say 2500:1 and 4000:1.

so even if the room is very dark the difference is depends on how much
the user care about cr.and what material you saw not very big and it gets much smaller
when the room is very withe.

we will soon have a new sony pr. with better cr. that the pearl or ruby have.
(in the 20000:1 to 30000:1) range that will be good for such testing.

i think with so high cr. no. the room will be a much more important
factor than in the past.
its like high end audio.when you almost reach the maximum with the equipment
the room it self sets the limit.

I will also say that in a light controlled room, even with reasonable control of reflections I can see a gigantic difference in what a projector that throws a 5000:1 sequential looks like compared to a 2000:1 device.

Art

I find myself agreeing to this, I did not think I would, but now I do.

2000:1 rooms a challenge? You can easily see the difference between 2000:1 and 20000:1 in a room with white walls and white ceiling (not with all material but suitable material). The challenge is to have the room not interfere with any kind of material.

did you try it?
.
I verified in a friend's room that had white walls and ceiling that the 9 inch CRT projector there when projecting HD-DVD still had better black level and more depth with sufficiently dark material than any digital I have seen so far. With mixed material the room 'ruined' the picture and it was CRT untypically washed out and clearly inferior to good digital projectors in a black room. The room will not stay like that, of course. The white walls will be 'sanitized'. :)

I will also say that in a light controlled room, even with reasonable control of reflections I can see a gigantic difference in what a projector that throws a 5000:1 sequential looks like compared to a 2000:1 device.

Art


I find myself agreeing to this, I did not think I would, but now I do.

October 15, 2006!!!! Remember this date, as it is a red letter day in the history of this forum.:)

we will soon have a new sony pr. with better cr. that the pearl or ruby have.
(in the 20000:1 to 30000:1) range that will be good for such testing.

Are you just extrapolating from the JVC and the new polarizers or do you have some specific information from Sony? :D If Sony develops a Qualia 2 with native 20000:1 and 60000:1 with DI I can only say: BRING IT ON!

i think with so high cr. no. the room will be a much more important
factor than in the past.
its like high end audio.when you almost reach the maximum with the equipment
the room it self sets the limit.
The importance of the room in general is not disputed at all. But even a very bad room can not stop a high CR projector from looking different from a low CR projector with sufficiently dark material. A high CR projector will suffer greatly with mixed content in a bad room. And with dark content it will suffer badly from any (even minimal) light sources except the projector (ambient light) even in a black hole.

we will soon have a new sony pr. with better cr. that the pearl or ruby have.
(in the 20000:1 to 30000:1) range that will be good for such testing.



Any thoughts on how soon and will it have enough light, when all is said and done, to compete with three chip DLPs ?

Art

It's not the light that is that much of the PROBLEM as is the MTF which is way lower.

mhafner
I like your optimism. I would read W.Mayer´s comments as upto 30000:1 with DI.

CINERMAX
MTF should improve some with the new polarizers coming to lcos. The next phase in improving MTF with lcos will be laser illumination.

Peter,
I was referring to the fact that Sony/SXRD seems to me happy with 400 lumens.

Art

Yes that is pathetic too. I needed barf bags handy when I saw the Pearl both at the Sony and Stewart booth. Once conditioned to 3 chip dlp and quality large plasmas LCOS becomes more and more of a smudge on the screen. A dark smudge.

i not can share much informations about that pr. but it
will come soon.
may be end of this year or lately first q. next.
so far i know its more a ruby2 as a qualia replacment.
the main differences is the big cr. improvement beside a lot of other improvements.
seams that the light out is about the same as the ruby :mad:

after the pearl the ruby is dead anyway so that make sense to update
the ruby.

the qualia replacement will be very likely a 4k consumer pr. :) but don't expect it before end of 08. :mad:

Well that pretty much takes them out of the running for some upgrade for me to go CH and bigger.

Art

i contact christie because they also offer a 1920X1080 3 chip dlp
with xenon lamp.

a surprise they can deliver such a unit.

seams they have the chips or there is a modification that ti make with the dmds or the electronic chips and
dpi like to wait for it or a other reason
why dpi cant deliver at the moment.

The contrast on the Titan is more than double that of the Christie. I think Cristie took an early allotment of the chips as they were the first to offer the unit with this chip. Their prototype unit projected a horrible image. The Chrisite is the chassis for the Runco v?-44/55 , but Runco's package with the anamorphic lens and scaler looked spectacular, although their contrast was not as intense as the Titan's.



If I had to guestimate the on off cr of the Runco is 2.5k - 3.3K:1 not 5k:1.

Probably 2.5k since it was calibrated and did not have a full cat eye mod.

i will have a demo unit the hd 8k in my cinema to compare the unit
to my qualia after the 26th.this month :)
the spec. from the christie say 1500 to 2000:1 wich is not very good but may i can combine
the unit with a high cr. optic that i already have from my old
dpi blacklight 4000.
seams i can use the optic with a adapter.
peter i have a isco 3 lens and a good scaler so lets see how the unit compare to the
qualia with the same scaler and the same isco3 lens side by side and lets hope the
motion bug from dlp at least with 24p content is less visible than before.

The contrast on the Titan is more than double that of the Christie. I think Cristie took an early allotment of the chips as they were the first to offer the unit with this chip. Their prototype unit projected a horrible image. The Chrisite is the chassis for the Runco v?-44/55 , but Runco's package with the anamorphic lens and scaler looked spectacular, although their contrast was not as intense as the Titan's. If I had to guestimate the on off cr of the Runco is 3.3K:1 not 5k:1.Peter, I'd say you are correct and precisely because of the disappointing picture of the Christie, I ended up switching to the Barco + high CR short throw lens, which I am getting before the end of this month, hopefully. Two questions, as Barco also probably got an early allotment of the DMDs, how could you explain the immense gap in picture quality when compared to the Christies?... even the fill factor looks better on the Barco (an illusion of course). In the same manner, the Runco's are Christies, whether or not they add anamorphic lenses to the package and different scalers, so, how can they look so much better?... I did not have the chance of demoing the Runcos myself so never saw them in action personally...

i will have a demo unit the hd 8k in my cinema to compare the unit
to my qualia after the 26th.this month :)
the spec. from the christie say 1500 to 2000:1 wich is not very good but may i can combine
the unit with a high cr. optic that i already have from my old
dpi blacklight 4000.
seams i can use the optic with a adapter.
peter i have a isco 3 lens and a good scaler so lets see how the unit compare to the
qualia with the same scaler and the same isco3 lens side by side and lets hope the
motion bug from dlp at least with 24p content is less visible than before.

I think you are going to be seeing sequential CR no better than the Qualia which is not a great benchmark.

Art

Peter, I'd say you are correct and precisely because of the disappointing picture of the Christie, I ended up switching to the Barco + high CR short throw lens, which I am getting before the end of this month, hopefully. Two questions, as Barco also probably got an early allotment of the DMDs, how could you explain the immense gap in picture quality when compared to the Christies?... even the fill factor looks better on the Barco (an illusion of course). In the same manner, the Runco's are Christies, whether or not they add anamorphic lenses to the package and different scalers, so, how can they look so much better?... I did not have the chance of demoing the Runcos myself so never saw them in action personally...


Filmframe, Runco did implement an IRIS on the illumination system, but nowhere near as aggressive as Odyssey's cat eye mod. When I said I want the mod to THROW AWAY 2/3 of the light, they looked at me as if I was crazy.

The only way I can explain the difference in the Chrsitie and the Barco is quite probably that the Barco uses a Gennum, to be frank the Runco looked spectacular but with isco 3 and a top notch scaler (that was more reminiscent of a gennum image and did not show the excessive pixel granularity of the Xantus Teranex with which I have played with). I have heard claims that there is a realta inisde the new Runco scaler though. It is possible that Barco has better lens than Christie too. I will say that the scaler on the Runco is excellent across any video source, which they were throwing at it, probably Ipod video too,;).

Wolfgang:

It would be interesting if you took a look at the illumination area of the Christie to see if you can do a 2/3 path reduction mod. The Runco light path is only reduced by about 1/3 I guess, based on their reactions to my desired reduction factor.

I think you will find the problem with the christie is the scaler and the contrast, possibly the lens. Do report your findings.

Filmframe, Runco did implement an IRIS on the illumination system, but nowhere near as aggressive as Odyssey's cat eye mod. When I said I want the mod to THROW AWAY 2/3 of the light, they looked at me as if I was crazy.

The only way I can explain the difference in the Chrsitie and the Barco is quite probably that the Barco uses a Gennum, to be frank the Runco looked spectacular but with isco 3 and a top notch scaler (that was more reminiscent of a gennum image and did not show the excessive pixel granularity of the Xantus Teranex with which I have played with). I have heard claims that there is a realta inisde the new Runco scaler though. It is possible that Barco has better lens than Christie too. I will say that the scaler on the Runco is excellent across any video source, which they were throwing at it, probably Ipod video too,;).Grazie for all the info :) I will be connecting the Barco via HDCP-DVI to the Crystalio-II which is Gennum VXP based and am also on the front row for the first batch of the upcoming Lumagen RadianceXG that is rumored to feature Gennum's next-gen VXP chip that is supposedly even better on many fronts.

Check your PM ;)

Filmframe, Runco did implement an IRIS on the illumination system, but nowhere near as aggressive as Odyssey's cat eye mod. When I said I want the mod to THROW AWAY 2/3 of the light, they looked at me as if I was crazy.

.

I bet ,but a sound recommendation. 2000 lumens as much sequential CR as is technically possible.

Art

When I said I want the mod to THROW AWAY 2/3 of the light, they looked at me as if I was crazy.I'm glad you on pushing on this. I offended Panasonic when I told them that after doing super bright and 4k:1 on/off CR, I would like them to do dimmer and much higher than 4k:1, since at 4k:1 they are not done and still have plenty of room left for improvement for some people.

Some of these guys are used to selling to businesses with huge screens or lights on and they should still sell to that market, but they need to be encouraged to provide something for the market that doesn't care nearly as much about all those lumens as they do about higher on/off CR. Heck, do 1000 real lumens with whatever CR they can get and they would still be way brighter than any CRT I've heard of ever was.

At a SIM2 event they were almost discouraging people from even considering their 3 chip 1080p DLP unless they have a 14' screen. But there are people who will never be able to fit a screen that size or even want to in there space who would be intererested in that projector. In that case, all they would have to do is put a single manual iris in that is just for light level control, even if it doesn't help the CR that much. It could be used to have a dimmer mode for movies and a brighter mode for other things, or just to keep the ft-lamberts fairly constant as the bulb dims. I asked about that, but they weren't sure if they would do an adjustable iris like that or not.

--Darin

i cant found infos how bright at the high setting cr.the sim2 is.
hope someone knows it?

yes the on of cr. is not very good.

Do report your findings.
of course.
i will get my test unit on the 27th. for 1 week.

Peter keeps referring to the “odyssey mods.” I did not do any original work on using smaller, optimally shaped lens and illumination system apertures to increase sequential CR. These are based on research done at TI and now used to some extent in most DLP designs.

I was lucky that Barco was interested in exploring the limits of these modifications and supplied the needed parts. I got to the 2/3 light output decrease number by working backwards and defining the maximum loss that would allow 20 fL white at maximum 75% lamp power through the entire life of the lamp. Barco has now introduced a version of the DP90 that uses a less aggressive version of the mods.

As I mentioned several times before, these modifications are very simple. Any competent large format camera repair shop can do the lens and the illumination aperture is typically a small metal part that can be easily made. This shop has a good reputation and can easily do this type of work: http://www.skgrimes.com .

... and the illumination aperture is typically a small metal part that can be easily made.


Runco mentioned that the selection of this metal part gave them problems as the heat bent it out of shape. What metal are you using?

By dropping that much light, what kind of CR change occured as you went ?

Art

Peter,

I looked at you like you where crazy because…. well… um…. anyway...
About the 2/3 light thing, I thought you where talking about light path efficiency. Not an iris, I misunderstood what you where talking about.

BTW Runco has not used Isco for a while they have their own lenses made for them.

We had heat issues with the iris of the SC1 with a 4KV lamp. The black coating was burning off.

Hi Jim:

Would you care to say what the calibrated on off cr is on the 22,44,and 55?

By dropping that much light, what kind of CR change occured as you went ?

Art


The CR of the standard Barco DP100 is 2000:1 with digital cinema white and 1500:1 with D65 white. Also, just saying D65 is not enough and you have to specify the dE, which is a very tight 1. The D65 CR is higher with a higher dE. The D65 (dE=1) CR with apertures decreasing the light output by 2/3 goes to 2700:1. You can get an additional 300:1 by using a filter to bring the native white to D65. This seems to be the limit for all similar designs.

The illumination aperture is anodized aluminum. I don’t know what flat black coating is used on the lens aperture, but it’s good enough for a 6 kW lamp.

I don't know what they are. The VX44/55s will be done this week. I am flying out there Thurs. morning. If all goes well we will measure the CSMS on them over the weekend.... or next week if they are not done.

I have not worked on the VX22 so I do not know where it is at.

Also, just saying D65 is not enough and you have to specify the dE, which is a very tight 1. The D65 CR is higher with a higher dE.

Hi Odyssey,
Just curious is the higher D65 CR = higher dE relationship just something that works out for this particular Barco or is there something fundamental that I'm missing?

Hi Odyssey,
Just curious is the higher D65 CR = higher dE relationship just something that works out for this particular Barco or is there something fundamental that I'm missing?

This is true for all projectors that don't have a native D65 white; in other words, all projectors. As an example, think about native white having more green than D65. If you calibrate white with slightly more green than perfect D65, it will have a higher dE and also will be brighter, resulting in higher CR.

Odyssey,
Do you feel that the CR improvement is in proportion of say a 30 % increase or more like 700 points regardless of the starting value.I'm thinking of the SIM HT 5000 for example which starts at 5000:1 theoretically.

Art

Art we don't know that these next gen 1080p PJ's have not implemented some form of these agressive Irises already. It would be great if we could go from 5,000:1 to 6,500:1, there may not be so much room to play.

That is my thinking when asking for the TITAN 1080p 800(?), it would start with a 5,000:1 8,000 ansi lumens PJ and possibly yield (post mod) 7.000:1 with 3,000 ansi calibrated, and real Xenon to boot.

I understand. This would be great goal with the Titan.

Art

That is my thinking when asking for the TITAN 1080p 800(?), it would start with a 5,000:1 8,000 ansi lumens PJ and possibly yield (post mod) 7.000:1 with 3,000 ansi calibrated, and real Xenon to boot.

Considering that the Titan 800 is no even on DPI roadmap at the moment, I have the feeling that this is just idle speculation, without any real information behind.

Well we can hope since those looking for large screen performance want the best possible CR that technically feasible.

Art

Odyssey,
Do you feel that the CR improvement is in proportion of say a 30 % increase or more like 700 points regardless of the starting value.I'm thinking of the SIM HT 5000 for example which starts at 5000:1 theoretically.

Art


Peter already answered this and he is right, it depends on what’s already in the design. Also, it seems that as TI makes CR improvements in the DMDs the potential additional gain from the aperture mods is less.

LCOS (SXRD) seems to have really made a large CR leap by improving the polarizing beam splitter. The system MTF at higher frequencies also seems much improved. A redesigned QX-1 would be the answer for high CR and high light output.

Do we have any reason to believe that a high light output LCoS or SXRD is in the cards ?

Art

I am currently using a 3 chip DLP and I am so blown away with the image that I cannot wait for 1080P 3 chip DLP. The brightness is seductive and everything seams so real. I am not opposed to a 1080 SXRD offering with this brightness but I think we are few years away from it so I will limit this to DLP.
Looking at this from the consumers point of view do you jump on first generation. The current chip is larger which will give you more light from the same bulb. The second gen chip will be smaller requiring a brighter bulb to achieve the same brightness and better cooling. First gen may have an advantage with brightness. I have found it very hard to see any difference between each new chip which makes me wonder is it worth waiting for second gen which could be 2 years from now. Im so impressed with 720 3 chip it makes me want to jump on the first 1080 I can get my hands on but I also have to be realistic and worry about taking a major hit on value. What are everyones thoughts. I am limited on space so the Barco etc are not an option.

i think the answer is yes but may the time frame is a long wait.
sony confirm to try to build a 4k consumer pr. till end of 08.(see audio vision magazine germany 11/2008)
the question is how fast they can shrink the chips and
how much problems they have to feed the 4k with "one" cable.
hope that have +2000 ansi and till end of 2008 i think bigger 30000:1 should be no problem.

I am currently using a 3 chip DLP and I am so blown away with the image that I cannot wait for 1080P 3 chip DLP. The brightness is suductive and everything seams so real. I am not opposed to a 1080 SXRD offering with this brightness but I think we are few years away from it so I will limit this to DLP.
Looking at this from the consumers point of view do you jump on first generation. The current chip is larger which will give you more light from the same bulb. The second gen chip will be smaller which means a brighter bulb will be needed to achieve the same brightness and better cooling. First gen may have an advantage with brightness. I have found it very hard to see any difference between each new chip which makes me wonder is it worth waiting for second gen which could be 2 years from now. Im so impressed with 720 3 chip it makes me want to jump on the first 1080 I can get my hands on but I also have to be realistic and worry about taking a major hit on value. What are everyones thoughts.


There in lies the quandry. The first 1080p three chip production models I saw at CEDIA are very very seductive but will take a chunk out of the wallet to be sure. My problem is that I'm an impatient guy anyway and not getting any younger. Hell , I thought I'd have my flying car and have taken a couple of vacations on that space station in 2001 ASO by now. :D


I think anyone who buys one of the first generation 1080p three chip DLPs will have to accept a big big depreciation.I doubt that any digital projector that is at or near cutting edge will get more than 30 cents on a dollar after a couple of years.

Art

I doubt that any digital projector that is at or near cutting edge will get mmore than 30 cents on a dollar after a couple of years.


Actually, a large high brightness professional projector is impossible to resell after 2 or 3 years.

I know, I had 3 like that since 1996. They all ended as scrap.

But I think Moorse Law is slowing down with regard to PJ's. Those first PJ's you had were probably 800 x 600. 1920 x 1080 on the other hand is here to stay. So while the price drops will be very steep, I don't think they will become heaps of scrap.

But I think Moorse Law is slowing down with regard to PJ's. Those first PJ's you had were probably 800 x 600.

The first was an ILA 420, 1600x1200 (4:3) if I remember well, and 200:1 CR!

A 180Kg beast with an astounding (at the time) 2300 lumens output.

1920 x 1080 on the other hand is here to stay. So while the price drops will be very steep, I don't think they will become heaps of scrap.

But who would buy a 100K projector with 2000:1 CR in 2 years, even for 20K, when new ones with 20000:1 can be found?

I considered the DP100 when it came out, but balked at another total loss.

Instead, I have a Qualia, and change the lamp every 4 months...

Id feel more comfortable jumping early on 1080P 3 chip DLP if someone here were to commit a promise to buy it from me once we get 4k.

Drop me a PM or an email and Ill send over the contract:)

But who would buy a 100K projector with 2000:1 CR in 2 years, even for 20K, when new ones with 20000:1 can be found?

I considered the DP100 when it came out, but balked at another total loss.

robert
thats may not 100% true.
i spoke with ivan today and he point out that there is a big second sales market for
cinema pr. in south america and may also in far east right now.
they like to get real cinema pr. with 2k for a good price.
its most depends on how was in 1 or 2 years the price for a new one and how much
the technology change like todays 2000:1 to may 10000:1 in 2 years .
is it like 50k so you will get may 25k.
is it like today in the 70k range it will be may 35k you get.
2k will be the max. dlp resolution for at least 2-3 years.

home cinema will not a big second sales market for sure for this kind of pr.

The 180Kg ILA's were not limited to resolution. they used a CRT for imaging and an amorphous LCD for image amplification.

So there was no clear image limit.

I think anyone who buys one of the first generation 1080p three chip DLPs will have to accept a big big depreciation.I doubt that any digital projector that is at or near cutting edge will get more than 30 cents on a dollar after a couple of years.

Art

Kind of like your G90s. I doubt you could get more than 40 cents on the dollar for them.

Anyone know what a used Qualia is selling for now?

I just looked on Audiogon and see one for 18K. Good luck to that guy. Sorry for going OT. Robena, it's hard to predict how quickly pricing will drop. With 1280 x 720 we saw incremental imrpovements for 3-4 years and then BAM. Regardless of how quickly these things devalue, I think Art is the one that has said that anyone that is bothered by seeing the value of their purchase drop is in the wrong hobby.

Considering that the Titan 800 is no even on DPI roadmap at the moment, I have the feeling that this is just idle speculation, without any real information behind.

THEY HAVE at least ONE ORDER IN HOUSE FOR IT, that is no speculation.;) The chassis would be aproximately 6" longer than the existing TITAN. As to what the Director for DPI has stated to Wolfgang, the factory marketing branch is a little bit like the British Prime minister, a lapdog to the USA (projector market needs).

DPI needs this projector to happen to compete with the Barco FLM hd 14 in the industrial markets and to compete with Runcos vx-44 and 55.

I understand that they may not have the capacity to produce enough TITAN 1080p-250's next year, but I don't think that will hold up development of the high power Xenon based 1080pTITAN, unless a new version of the phillips high pressure UHP appears of course.

I am currently using a 3 chip DLP and I am so blown away with the image that I cannot wait for 1080P 3 chip DLP. The brightness is seductive and everything seams so real. I am not opposed to a 1080 SXRD offering with this brightness but I think we are few years away from it so I will limit this to DLP.
Looking at this from the consumers point of view do you jump on first generation. The current chip is larger which will give you more light from the same bulb. The second gen chip will be smaller requiring a brighter bulb to achieve the same brightness and better cooling. First gen may have an advantage with brightness. I have found it very hard to see any difference between each new chip which makes me wonder is it worth waiting for second gen which could be 2 years from now. Im so impressed with 720 3 chip it makes me want to jump on the first 1080 I can get my hands on but I also have to be realistic and worry about taking a major hit on value. What are everyones thoughts. I am limited on space so the Barco etc are not an option.


The TITAN 1080p 250 is an awesome projector and a bargain not to be obsoleted anytime soon. You will love the extreme on/off contrast, when coupled with the resolution and the color. The Runco Vx-22 did not look too shaby either, I think Dennis is getting one of those. It may not be colored filtered the image looked a bit warm. The SIM2 continues to ignore colorimetry for brightness, what idiocy.

There should be no inherent color accuracy or gamut difference between DLP and LCOS (SXRD). It’s a function of the filters, conversion matrixes, gamma curves, calibration system, etc. Three chip DLP color has been better because these factors have been better implemented.

According to TI the reflective nature of the dlp's is the reason for the color purity. Psychovisually the implementation of 3dlp closely matches reality's gamut, only the QXIA achieves that level of color accuracy with high MTF, the SRX does not, the pearl is pathetic.

You may be right but the poor performance of the srs-r110 leaves me hopeless. Besides if it works why look for an alternative. We have been living in the dark ages of Home Theater for over one decade, it's time to run with 1080p 3dlp. Let the other technologies catch up, if they can.

In that case, all they would have to do is put a single manual iris in that is just for light level control, even if it doesn't help the CR that much. It could be used to have a dimmer mode for movies and a brighter mode for other things, or just to keep the ft-lamberts fairly constant as the bulb dims. I asked about that, but they weren't sure if they would do an adjustable iris like that or not.

--Darin

The Titan has an adjustable lens iris, we don't know how accesible it is when installed. Ideally I would like this adjustment on a digital servo to have presets for movie watching and sports.

This is true for all projectors that don't have a native D65 white; in other words, all projectors. As an example, think about native white having more green than D65. If you calibrate white with slightly more green than perfect D65, it will have a higher dE and also will be brighter, resulting in higher CR.

Okay, I gotcha. I missed the implication that someone is calibrating towards max brightness. which results in higher CR and higher dE. Yup, it makes perfect sense with the new context. Thanks.

Anyone know what a used Qualia is selling for now?


10-15K euro
i got 3 offers to buy one in that range.
in us should be the same in $.

Boy..I would've guessed $8K to $10K USD... I'd try and get $10K for mine.

There was one on videogon a week ago for 10k, it only lasted 2 days. The thing was in Canada and required local pickup.

At 18k; I don't see too many moving- too close in price to something new, now as the price drops to the 13k-sub 10k range (after the Qualia has "officially" been replaced), then more will move.

Eventually we'll have someone like FH Video buy the remaining stock from Sony- and then resell them at 80% full-retail. :)

Dan

I heard from DPI today. Orders in house for 1080p titan 250 will start shipping end of November. ;)

Great ! Thanks for the update.

Art

I just placed my order last week so hopefully I will see it by March.....

Dwight

Additional : This will be my third projector in under 2 years. Hopefully my last...

Boy..I would've guessed $8K to $10K USD... I'd try and get $10K for mine.
Are you jumping ship?
Is this Titan the Holy Grail (for now)?

Id say it is. The contrast (both) and color is phenomenal.

Are you jumping ship?
Is this Titan the Holy Grail (for now)?

Jumping ship cannotes some type of loyalty. Not a whole lot of that to be found in the PJ world. :o

Art

Did you guys see the new JVC DILA roadmap?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=739990

I would think that this could really shake up the high end. The white paper shows new improved 2kx4k chips coming out this year as well as 8kx4k chips targeted for 2007/2008. It wouldn't surprise me if the day of 2,000 lumen 10,000:1 on/off and 2kx4k are here before we know it.

It wouldn't surprise me if the day of 2,000 lumen 10,000:1 on/off and 2kx4k are here before we know it.

Yeah right, in the meantime......

Yeah right, in the meantime......

According to the roadmap the 3rd gen 4kx2k chips will be available late 2006 or early 2007. So we might have a solution with those sorts of specs as early as next year. I don't think it will affect d-cinema though because JVC (and Sony) have already missed the boat on that one.

EDIT: Also, if one assumes that JVC realizes that the d-cinema market has already been lost, it begs the question of why come out with 4kx2k and 8kx4k panels. The answer could be that they are targeting these chips for high-end applications ($20k+).

The question that no one seems to be able to answer: Will Sony again lead the pack with a 004 replacement?
Seems that JVC has already provided their answer . . . ;)

Sony has not launched a new panel for a looong time. To me it would make sense to have 5k,9k and 20k products in your line up. Why first establish a high end product then leave the segment and then come back? I think Sony migh have something semi cool for 20k that comes before the end of 08.

Enough discussing this LCOS LANDFILL, those of you that have not seen the Titan piece.

LCOS LANDFILL

:eek: :D :D Good quote! It has a good ring to it. lol. Okay, I'll try and keep the thread OT

;)

According to the roadmap the 3rd gen 4kx2k chips will be available late 2006 or early 2007. So we might have a solution with those sorts of specs as early as next year. I don't think it will affect d-cinema though because JVC (and Sony) have already missed the boat on that one.

EDIT: Also, if one assumes that JVC realizes that the d-cinema market has already been lost, it begs the question of why come out with 4kx2k and 8kx4k panels. The answer could be that they are targeting these chips for high-end applications ($20k+).

It would be great if Tom would chime in but I doubt he could come clean and still do his job. I simply don't see it happening. If the HD new is early 2007 I just think it is a pipe dream to expect some of these uber resolution devices for any sooner than later in 2008. ( I don't mean a prototype to talk about but something we can buy).

Art

It would be great if Tom would chime in but I doubt he could come clean and still do his job. I simply don't see it happening. If the HD new is early 2007 I just think it is a pipe dream to expect some of these uber resolution devices for any sooner than later in 2008. ( I don't mean a prototype to talk about but something we can buy).

Art

My guess is that you're probably right. But playing devils advocate for a moment, JVC has 4th gen 4k chips targeted for 2008/2009 so you figure that they have got to be doing something with the new 3rd gen 4k chips in the meantime (2007-2008). Tapeing out a chip is an expensive process but having worked for TI it doesn't surprise me anymore how much money companies throw away sometimes in faulty roadmaps.

(my apologies to Skineramax for continuing to misuse this thread, but Art made me do it :) )

(my apologies to Skineramax for continuing to misuse this thread, but Art made me do it :) )

It's my thread, I give to everyone permission to speak about future JVC products. :)

It's my thread, I give to everyone permission to speak about future JVC products. :)

Thanks Robert :)

Guys, there seems to be a misguided belief in the JVC road map/timetable. I remember years back looking at what they forecasted back then. If they had hit that the world of HT would have been 1080P some years back!

Guys, there seems to be a misguided belief in the JVC road map/timetable. I remember years back looking at what they forecasted back then. If they had hit that the world of HT would have been 1080P some years back!

It's very true that JVC didn't execute well in the early years and this failure to execute has seeded Sonys dominance in LCOS. My guess is JVC has learned a bit from their mistakes and are scrambling to get back into the market. It's anyones guess on how this will translate into actual product though.

Just found out today the Titan1080 model is now delayed into 1st QTR.

What about the SIM HT5000 Alan ?

Art

Just got off the phone with both Sim and Runco. Runco is on for next week and Sim is still on target for mid next month.

What a difference a week makes, DPI called me last week to let me know they would be shipping next month. I think the Runco vx-22 may be a niece piece, if they would only publish contrast specs.

What a difference a week makes, DPI called me last week to let me know they would be shipping next month. I think the Runco vx-22 may be a niece piece, if they would only publish contrast specs.

Told the same.

What would be the expected lumen drop off of the 1080p250 as the bulb ages?

It's almost February and the Runco is still not shipping nor it seems any other manufacture. Why do they keep promising and not delivering?

What would be the expected lumen drop off of the 1080p250 as the bulb ages?
between 15 and 20% max.

It's almost February and the Runco is still not shipping nor it seems any other manufacture. Why do they keep promising and not delivering?

The answer is hushed by NDA's. DPI is now end of April and Beginning of May.

I am going to go out on a limb and say that of the 400 chips each 3 chipper manufacturer got the QC grade scale is probaly all over the place. On that elusive supposedly existing grade 1 to 10. Where 1-3 go to the rptv market and the 10's go to the Fed.

I know this is not Peters favorite but my Sim HT5000 finally shipped. I should have it tomorrow or Friday at the latest.

Congrats. Don't crank the contrast to much on that one.;)

between 15 and 20% max.

Would you have any link to substantiate this information?

my personal experience. that's all.

I know this is not Peters favorite but my Sim HT5000 finally shipped. I should have it tomorrow or Friday at the latest.

Alan,

I'm looking forward to your impressions of the Sim HT5000 since it's on my top 3 projectors to check out. After reading all the posts on the new JVC one would think it's the only pj in town.

Alan G
Are you expecting a Ht5000 with twin lamps or "just" a single lamp?

Single lamp. Ill post a write up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG
What would be the expected lumen drop off of the 1080p250 as the bulb ages?


between 15 and 20% max.


i have since years a qualia and the light drop from a qualia is about 50% in the first 500-600
hours.
i know also people that change because of that every 500 hours the qualia lamp.

i dont know a uhp or a other lamp that have much over 50% of the light after
lets say 1000 hours.

Hi wolfgang did you order the Christie HD7kc or HD5kc?

HD5KC may have problem with lamp flickering after first 500 hours . Elmer perkins problem.

I did not experience any light drop off with the Merc 500 projectors, it was bright as day and one day at 1400 lamp hours full blast it died suddenly.

Does anyone know if the color spectrum of a normal lamp change much after use? What I'm wondering if it's of any use re-calibrating a projector say after 500h to gain brightness.

peter

christie offers a
hd5k that is the same as the new hd6k with or without notch filter
and a hd8k with or without notch filter("c"version)

because i know what filter they are using i can
if i like order one but again i never ever saw colors that the hd8k
deliver without that filter when i had the test unit.

with bigger units the hd series go up to the hd18k.
i saw the hd18k at the ise show in amsterdam this week
and it was the first time they show this new unit.

my unit is on the way to me.
i should get it on monday or tuesday next week.

about lamps.
every lamp goes more or less down as i describe but some pr. have
a circuit that dim the lamp in the beginning and boost it later to maintain
a almost constant light out during the life time of the lamp.

my balcklight 4000 from dpi(1280x1024 3 chip dlp) have that inside and it works
fine.

about the elmer perkins problem.
the qualia/ruby use the same type of lamp.
the christie hd 5/6k use the 1000w version the qualia the 700w version.
if the lamp starts to flicker i am sure christie will ship me a new one.

but is it not strange the qualia with a new 700w lamp offers about 1500-1600 ansi.
with only 30 % more the 1000w hd5/6k lamp offers 6500 ansi :)
dlp is about 3 times as effective as lcos!!!

Does anyone know if the color spectrum of a normal lamp change much after use? What I'm wondering if it's of any use re-calibrating a projector say after 500h to gain brightness.

Xenon lamps offer a very stable color spectrum, that's one of their strength, together with near 6500K native output.

I think that UHP lamps are not as good in that aspect. They are more efficient, cost less, dim less fast (but dim anyway), but ultimately, Xenon is better *if* you have enough light once they have dimmed.

Alan G
What kind of brightness spec do Sim2 give for 1 vs 2 lamps?

Screw the brightness. I asked yesterday what the On Off CR would be.

I remember a man that didn´t care much for on/off and liked bright projectors. I will give no names. Did you have a bad day?

HI OHLSON, I WAS NOT BEING NASTY BUT ENTHUSIASTIC.

I know that guy, he did not feel that Front Porjection was anygood 2 years ago and insisted on doing only digital cinema 2k projectors on rear screens. In that context on/off was not critical as FP. ;)

Screw the brightness. I asked yesterday what the On Off CR would be.
Hear, hear. :eek:

So an adjusted Lumen output from 2000 to 1500/1600 would be a conservative estimate as to lumen output of the 1080p250 ovet time?

Alan G
What kind of brightness spec do Sim2 give for 1 vs 2 lamps?

Sim said the 2 bulb version will be out later this summer/fall.

1 bulb is rated at 3000 lumens but I guessing 2000 lumens at d65. We will take some measurements next few days. It looks very good. Very very clean.

So an adjusted Lumen output from 2000 to 1500/1600 would be a conservative estimate as to lumen output of the 1080p250 ovet time?

That is correct. I also did not notice color shifts with their aging bulbs.

So an adjusted Lumen output from 2000 to 1500/1600 would be a conservative estimate as to lumen output of the 1080p250 ovet time?

That is correct. I also did not notice color shifts with their aging bulbs.

Hmm, why don't these projectors have any convergence adjustment...?

And why are they so ungodly finicky about the video signal? grrr :(

Chris,
What projector do you have ?

art

it's a 1080p 250. It's not mine.

it's a 1080p 250. It's not mine.
Chris Im guessing its the Titan 250 if so does yours take 1080P 24?

yes, sorry, it's the titan. Yes it takes 1080p24. When we finally got a cable solution that it decided to be happy with...

It does look nice though. Wish it had more on/off CR, but it's a RP setup so with the lights on it looks great ANSI-wise and on/off doesn't really matter there.

yes, sorry, it's the titan. Yes it takes 1080p24. When we finally got a cable solution that it decided to be happy with...

It does look nice though. Wish it had more on/off CR, but it's a RP setup so with the lights on it looks great ANSI-wise and on/off doesn't really matter there.

Any Pics you can publish??:)