SpyderTV Pro reviews. [Text View]

mystery

09-14-06, 12:06 PM

SpyderTVPro Review

Okay, I did my first calibration with the the new software last night. It took me about 39 minutes according to the program data. I have the H78DC3 projector and a 106" Da-Lite High Power screen. My source was my HTPC using DVI and HDMI cables/adapters/switcher and extender.

Here's what you get in the box:

1 SpyderTV Colorimeter including filter and USB cable with a weighted disc
1 Suction cup/tripod attachment
1 plastic storage case
1 SpyderTVPro software CD
1 Spyder2Pro software CD
1 SpyderTV Test Patterns and Instructions NTSC DVD
1 SpyderTV Test Patterns and Instructions PAL/SECAM DVD
1 SpyderTV Quick Start Guide
1 'Which software should I use?' explanatory sheet
1 Spyder2Pro Installation Guide
1 Warranty Card
1 Envelope in which to store all of the discs and papers

I loaded the software onto both my HTPC (for when I calibrate my Oppo DVD player) and my wife's (thanks Honey!) laptop which I used last night to do the measurements from the HTPC. The colorimeter was placed about a foot in front of the screen and about a third of the way up from the bottom of the screen, facing upwards at about a 45 degree angle aimed at the center of the screen.

I used a USB cable extension so that I could sit on the couch and this was plugged into the laptop. I have a Gyration Ultra cordless mouse which I used from the couch to control the DVD test patterns disc which was in the HTPC.

The software doesn't have provisions for every adjustment that you might find on your display device. For instance, the different gamma settings that I can use on my projector aren't used by this software. So I knew from past experience and reading that my projector and indeed basically all of the H7x series units seem best set at Gamma TV Cinema 1. I used TV as opposed to either one of Film, or Video. I also had the choice of Cinema, Normal and Vivid. The software recommends that you initially set the display device to Normal or it's equivalent. This is what I did. I intend to re-do the calibration using Cinema at a future date.

The 1 corresponds to warm. 2 is medium and 3 is cool. SpyderTVPro does allow this measurement to be taken and adjusted.

The SpyderTVPro software appears to be SpyderTV software with some additions like a calibration timeline at the bottom whereby you can jump to different pages if you need to go back and check something. It also has RGB contrast and RGB brightness measurements which are labelled gains and cuts respectively. You can print out a document which outlines the calibration measurements with graphs.

The software guides you along the way. You start by selecting your display device and there are check boxes for everything from CRT to Front Projection. Then you record your current settings and you can de-select any boxes which don't apply to you. In my case I de-selected the Color and Tint boxes because I'm using DVI/HDMI and they aren't available on my Optoma projector when using these cables. You have to tell the software what your current settings are and also the minimum and maximum values. The Color Temperature Pre-Set Editor allows you to adjust the default names of Warm, Medium and Cool to another name which more closely matches your display device or to add, delete or change the order of these entries.

Now the software does a 'Before Analysis' measurement to determine the color and luminance values of black and white test patterns which it uses to characterize the initial state of your TV. Data obtained in this step is used during the calibration process and in final reporting.

Next, SpyderTVPro measures the actual color temperature of a white test pattern for each of the presets available on your TV. It then calculates which preset is the closest to the 6500K standard then displays this answer to you.

Then, SpyderTVPro determines the optimum brightness setting for your TV by measuring a black test pattern at multiple brightness slider settings. SpyderTVPro will take about 7 measurements after which it calculates the optimum brightness setting for your TV and displays the answer to you. You then set your brightness slider to the recommended setting.

Now SpyderTVPro determines the optimum Contrast setting for your TV by measuring a white test pattern at multiple contrast slider settings. The procedure is the same as when measuring the brightness, and the software will then take about 7 measurements after which it calculates the optimum contrast setting for your TV and displays the answer to you. Again, you just set your contrast slider to the recommended setting.

Next, the software determines how to adjust your display's Red, Green and Blue GAINS by measuring a GRAY test pattern and showing you the relative percentages that each color will need to be adjusted to reach the target. Once you have made the appropriate adjustments to your Red, Green and Blue gains, click "Next" to perform a new measurement. If your display is still outside the tolerance range, SpyderTV Pro will recalculate the adjustments you will need to make, and you will need to readjust your display.

If you have adjusted the settings correctly, and all three colors are within the tolerance, SpyderTV Pro will move on to adjusting the low end of the gray scale or, if your entire grayscale sequence is complete, will inform you that you are done. If both the high and low end of the gray scale are correct at the same time, with no adjustment of settings necessary, the Wizard will move on to the step after the gray scale adjustments, and you will be finished with this step.

Now SpyderTVPro determines how to adjust your displays Red, Green and Blue CUTS. The method is the same as with the GAINS procedure only this time measuring a DARK GRAY test pattern and showing you the relative percentages that each color will need to be adjusted to reach the target.

At this point, since I didn't have Color and Tint measurements to take, the program enters the final stages and SpyderTVPro measures BLACK and WHITE test patterns to characterize the state of your television AFTER calibration. Data obtained in this step is used for comparison versus the initial state of your TV and in final reporting.

Then we come to the SUMMARY screen which reports both your initial settings and optimized settings for each of the TV controls you adjusted in the calibration process. This screen also provides graphs for each of the controls you optimized. The SpyderTVPro report also recommends a date for your next calibration which is set to 6 months.

Now we come to the BEFORE and AFTER IMAGE ANALYSIS page. The purpose of this step is to view VISUAL IMAGES for BRIGHTNESS, CONTRAST, COLOR and TINT while you adjust the appropriate slider controls above and below the optimized settings that SpyderTVPro recommended. This will give you an idea of how far out you were prior to running the software and what those settings you previously used would look like now as compared to the properly calibrated ones. Using photos this allows you to see what shadow detail you've gained and what extraneous detail you've lost.

I have up until now been playing with a Spyder2Express colorimeter and the Calman software. Using that combination, through many hours of settings adjustments, I dialed in my parameters to be very close to the settings that SpyderTVPro recommended. Here are the values that I settled on with Spyder/Calman: RGB Contrast 12 -7 0, RGB Brightness -13 -1 -2. Contrast 9 Brightness -5 Warm (1) Color setting

Here are the settings that SpyderTVPro determined would give me the most accuracy. RGB Contrast 11 -3 -2, RGB Brightness -13 1 0. Contrast 11 Brightness -4 Warm (1) Color setting

As you can see, the changes weren't drastic. However this is on paper. In reality the differences were HUGE. I thought that I had by using the Spyder/Calman package, attained just about the best images possible with my projector and they were indeed NICE! A BIG improvement from just using AVIA or eyeballing. But I've learned that a simple click or two in one direction or the other with the Cuts and Gains can either improve or throw off the picture in a greater measure than the numbers would seem to indicate. Using the Spyder/Calman method, the graphs all looked very good and I was happy with the betterment of the overall images.

But I must say that I was overwhelmingly floored at what I saw on my screen post calibration using SpyderTVPro. I've never seen such natural and even skin tones on any display device ever. I sat there mesmerized. Faces that had previously been overly red or unevenly toned were basically perfect now. I had a hard time shutting the system down and going to bed. Slight tinges of green in gray beards and hair were totally eliminated.

Now I want to watch all of my movies over again! So let me say this about the Spyder/Calman way of doing things. If you have the time and interest, you will learn a whole lot about the way your display device responds to settings adjustments. It can be a challenge but a fun one to accomplish a proper calibration with Calman. All of the graphs contribute to showing you where you are and hinting at what you possibly should do to attain nirvana. The Primaries and Secondaries as well as ANSI Contrast measurement tools are quite interesting and there is definitely a place in the calibration world for this Tool. Not to mention that the cost of an inexpensive colorimeter such as the Express coupled with Calman won't set you back much coin and you will obtain results which in my experience so far, very closely resembles those garnered by utilizing the SpyderTVPro. Bill and Derek are planning on more upgrades and I look forward to those. I still plan on playing with Calman as well as SpyderTVPro because I like the more detailed information that the Calman product gives.

If you have the money and don't have a lot of time, patience or interest in calibrating your display, then this SpyderTVPro is the product for you. I love it. It's extremely easy to use. To my surprise, I didn't even have to re-adjust the contrast or brightness settings after the calibration. I was sure I'd have to tweak it a bit but I checked with AVIA and those measurements were dead on. I also have the Monster/ISF disc and find it invaluable when checking contrast.

One other thing; the SpyderTVPro software seemed to struggle just a little bit with my High Power Screen. Not a problem but I noticed that it found it a challenge to nail the contrast and brightness settings. It may have taken a tad longer to do this but it eventually calculated the proper settings.

I hope this helps those who may be thinking of purchasing either Calman, SpyderTVPro, or both as I've done.

I have relied on the help function of the SpyderTVPro software to assist me in writing this review.

Wayne

mraub

09-14-06, 12:46 PM

Wayne,

Thanks for the detailed review. I also have an H78 and figured it couldn't get any better than CalMan, which uses 11 data points to get a greyscale. Your review gives me food for thought.

Is an upgrade path offered for Spyder2Pro owners? I really don't need another puck.

MIKE

mystery

09-14-06, 01:29 PM

Hi Mike,

I'm only aware of an upgrade to Spyder2Pro from Express and Suite. You might want to contact Colorvision. Perhaps they've instituted a software upgrade to SpyderTVPro that isn't listed on their website yet.

I'm approaching 300 hours on my H78. So far so good. I've also installed two quiet 12v computer fans, one at each venting grille that I use to help move the hot air out. It's reduced the internal temperatures by about 20 degress fahrenheit.

Wayne

mraub

09-14-06, 02:10 PM

I'm really interested in an upgrade from Spyder2Pro to SpyderTVPro, an upgrade not listed on their website. Since the hardware (puck) is the same, they could offer an upgrade if they wished. The question is whether they wish to do so.

stixx

09-14-06, 03:39 PM

Can someone briefly describe the primary differences between the SpyderTV and SpyderTV Pro?

Uatatoka

09-14-06, 03:44 PM

Wayne,

I'd be curious to see what the delta was between the calman settings you settled upon and SpyderTVPro. Is that possible? Essentially an RGB tracking chart for each setting...though there are many ways to get to D65 (i.e. you could have happened upon the exact same settings with CalMAN as SpyderTV did...). I'm more curious to see the accuracy of SpyderTV SW (in CalMAN) since you have both.

Although really I think to compare CalMAN to SpyderTV Pro is somewhat of an apples to oranges comparison. SpyderTV is almost fully automated and holds your hand through calibration process so the user doesn't necessesarily have to know much about the concepts behind the tuning where the CalMAN SW is geared more as an advanced SW tool needed to calibrate the monitor that provides loads of information in the process. It's user typically needs a more fundamental understanding of video and the tuning process which is very much an artform at times - though the inclusion of the latest calibration wizard changes that a bit...

One's not necessarily better than the other, but mainly comes down to user preference.

Mike

Bear5k

09-14-06, 04:38 PM

I, too, would be curious to see your "after" and "after after" measurements in CalMAN, too (i.e., run an 11-pt grayscale post STV Pro). I'm curious what happened to your dE.

That being said, we are definitely different tools, and I'm glad to see the STV Pro getting some air time. :)

mystery

09-14-06, 05:03 PM

Hi Mike,

I've included a pdf of one of my better calibration runs with Calman recently. The images were very, very good with the settings that resulted in those results on the graphs.

I found my H78 to be an extremely difficult projector to calibrate. My H57, H31 and before that X1 never gave me this much trouble. The graphs may show room for improvement and it would seem that my SpyderTVPro results confirm that but I reached a wall and couldn't get any better results no matter what I tried so I 'settled' for that for the time being. Now of course I've changed the settings to reflect the SpyderTVPro's findings and I like what I'm seeing now more than before.

I'll also include the charts from SpyderTVPro for some comparison. I'm hobbling along on a broken foot so I don't think I'll be doing too much else by way of comparison just yet.

Hi Bill!,

I'll see if I can do what you asked but I'm going to need you to allow me to use my new colorimeter with the Calman software. It won't work right now because the license key only matches my old colorimeter's serial number. I've sent you an email about this.

Yup. Two different products. Both excellent for sure. And there can be a place for both in a home theater hobbyist's repertoire. :)

Wayne

mystery

09-14-06, 05:43 PM

Here is the SpyderTVPro report that the software generated. Unfortunately I've had to produce it in black and white because the 3 page pdf color file is too large to attach here. My printer is out of colored ink so I printed each page separately in B & W and then scanned them into different pdfs. What a pain! ;)

Sorry about the quality but I think you should get the idea.

Wayne

Lee Bailey

09-14-06, 06:39 PM

Didn't SpyderTVPro go back over the GAINS after you adjusted the CUTS? I know that the two interact. It would take more than one complete pass of CUTS and GAINS to truly dial the display in.

mystery

09-14-06, 07:32 PM

Lee,

When the software is measuring anything, it will if necessary ask for a repeat measurement. This happened to me with several of the readings. During the Cuts/Gains portion, the colors were out but not by that much. The program did require repeat readings before the colors were found to be in tolerance. Even then, you can choose either to go on to the next step or act upon the advice given. For instance, I was told that it was okay to move on but the program also was saying to move blue contrast up as an example. So, at this point you can ignore that advice or try to get the colors closer to 100%. I decided to persevere and work on getting red, green, and blue more in line with one another. At times I went too far and made things worse and had to backtrack and then I'd be satisfied with the result and move on.

I like the fact that you can tweak Cuts/Gains a little beyond what the software's tolerance levels permit in order to attempt to get a little closer to perfection.

I did another calibration today. This time with my Oppo DVD player fed via DVI to the same projector. Instead of Normal, I used Cinema. It worked just as well as last night's attempt on the HTPC.

Wayne

mystery

09-14-06, 08:24 PM

stixx,

If you go to the Colorvision website you'll find the answer to your question. Basically SpyderTVPro is more advanced software that measures RGB Cuts/Gains.

mraub,

Mike, I just found out that people with SpyderTV can upgrade to the Pro version for $369.00. For that you get a SpyderTVPro software CD, Spyder2Pro software CD, SpyderTVPro DVD (installation guide and test patterns), SpyderTVPro carrying case, and a SpyderTVPro vs. Spyder2Pro comparison sheet.

Wayne

Uatatoka

09-14-06, 09:52 PM

I found my H78 to be an extremely difficult projector to calibrate. My H57, H31 and before that X1 never gave me this much trouble. The graphs may show room for improvement and it would seem that my SpyderTVPro results confirm that but I reached a wall and couldn't get any better results no matter what I tried so I 'settled' for that for the time being. Now of course I've changed the settings to reflect the SpyderTVPro's findings and I like what I'm seeing now more than before.

This is why I'm curious to the CalMAN report with the projector setup with SpyderTV settings (pending broken foot and all ;) ). Just because it looks better doesn't necessarily mean it's more accurate per se.

Your gamma is pretty high on the CalMAN pdf, which could hurt black level detail. What Degamma setting is the H78 set to? I'm not too familiar with the H78 but the HD72 has four options -> PC, Graphics, Video, Film. Trying a different one to get it down to 2.2-2.5 might help improve black levels - with either SW solution...

Mike

Johnla

09-14-06, 10:15 PM

Mike, I just found out that people with SpyderTV can upgrade to the Pro version for $369.00. For that you get a SpyderTVPro software CD, Spyder2Pro software CD, SpyderTVPro DVD (installation guide and test patterns), SpyderTVPro carrying case, and a SpyderTVPro vs. Spyder2Pro comparison sheet.

Where did you find this out? Because I contacted them today about any upgrades from SpyderTV to SpyderTV Pro, and this is what they told me at around 2pm this afternoon.

"Presently we are working on an upgrade/update path to the new SpyderTVPRO package. We will have some info soon."

mystery

09-14-06, 10:48 PM

Mike,

The H78 has Film, Video, and TV image modes. Also, Cinema, Normal and Vivid pre-set picture modes and Gamma 1 - 5. Most professional reviews recommend using Cinema-TV-1. I don't seem to be missing any detail. Brightness has been confirmed through AVIA and no changes were warranted.

Right now, comparing my recent results with Calman isn't a top priority because I'm extremely happy with my projector for the first time since I bought it over two months ago, and I've been on my foot too much playing with these calibration toys when it should have been up in the air and I'm paying for it now. :(

All I know is, I've been very frustrated with this projector because my H57 displayed better images than I've had with the H78 and this just ought not to have been. Finally, I have some peace and can actually sit down and watch a movie without missing the dialogue because I'm fretting about someone's cheeks being too red. :) I might even stop tweaking for a while. ;)

Johnla,

That information I posted is taken straight from a document that I found pertaining to the Pro version. I'm unable to attach it because it's too large a file. The section of the document pertaining to the upgrade reads exactly as I wrote it. The file is called 'The SpyderTVPro Reviewer's Guide Final'.

Wayne

Johnla

09-14-06, 11:07 PM

Well considering I contacted Colorvision directly today about any possible upgrades from SpyderTV to SpyderTV Pro, and they reported back and told me that they do not have them finalized yet. I'd have to go by what Colorvision told me that such a thing is not available yet, and not by some review or file that you seen that says that it maybe is.

Gino AUS

09-15-06, 12:07 AM

Sounds good Wayne.... I've been delaying using mine until the weekend because I thought it may take me a good while to do... by the sounds of things, its relatively quick. I'll try playing with it tonight.

Uatatoka

09-15-06, 02:35 AM

I understand all to well Wayne. That's exactly what I did after spending so much time calibrating - once you get a great image you just want to use it! ;) Enjoy!

Mike

rjyap

09-15-06, 09:59 AM

Hi Wayne, looking at your PDF file for Calman, I believe you have Red running out too much on 80% and above. Without filter if you are using Calman, you might need to pull down green and blue to match you red. My understanding after playing with Calman for pass 2 weeks is RGB is relative to each other. For example, if you know that Red is the limited color, you can always set Red at max and only adjust Green and Blue Contrast or Gain to Red level.

Another suggestion is you can try out Hoya 81c or CC20R to get a flatter greyscale and color temperature. I try this on my PE7700 DLP projector and managed to get deltaE below 2 from 20% to 100%.

If you have time, why not using Calman and just do a 0% to 100% greyscale with your current Spyder2TV Pro settings and take a look at the graph.

As mention earlier, Calman really need some skillset at reading and interpreting the data to understand how to tune in your display.

SJHT

09-15-06, 10:26 AM

mystery

09-15-06, 12:18 PM

rjyap,

Thanks for your suggestions. :) You're right about the reds as they appeared in that pdf. This seems to be a problem with the H7x series of Optoma projectors. I don't really want to fuss with an external lens filter. I did that with my H57 when I had an ND2 filter to reduce the lumens.

I have read that some other Optoma H78 owners have had success by raising their R Contrast level quite high. It might be something to play with out of curiosity through Calman.

I intend to compare my current settings obtained through SpyderTVPro by running them through a Calman session. But you know, I've been closely studying good and bad DVD transfers for several years now and even if my present numbers don't look good in Calman, I don't think I'd be too tempted to screw around with them. The images I'm seeing now are just too good to mess with if you know what I mean. But it would be interesting to compare. Maybe there won't be much difference.

Gino,

I'm looking forward to your opinion/impressions of the product. It's kind of lonely being the only one right now. ;) :)
Give us the lowdown as soon as you can. :cool:

SJHT,

I didn't go into the service menu at all. Thankfully, the H78 has adjustable RGB Contrast and Brightness controls in the user menu.

Maybe someday I'll spring for an ISF calibration because I still haven't nailed HDTV yet from my Scientific Atlanta 8300HD PVR. :confused:

Somebody ought to start a Calibration Network that feeds test patterns all day or whereby you can order up on demand any pattern you like. I'd subscribe to that in a minute. :)

Wayne

arioch

09-16-06, 10:09 AM

I just recieved a SpyderTVPro package yesterday.
I've used a SpyderPro package extensively before, so I'm quite familiar with the basic procedures...

All the wizard measurements that the software does seems to work just fine, but when I come to measuring and adjusting bias/gain something strange happens:

First of all, regardless of which TV I'm measuring (CRT or plasma) it allways tells me to increase blue gain. Even when the grey window pattern is extremely purple/blue in color it still tells me to increase blue.
Second, one is supposed to get bars that shows you graphically which color needs to go down and which to raise, these bars never show up!

I have installed and tried the software on two different computers and using two different Spyder sensors and on one plasma and on one CRT monitor but it acts the same strange way all the time.

Have there been any updates from version 1.0? Because my auto update software in the application states that I have the current version... Somehow I doubt it. :)
Any advice?

mystery

09-16-06, 10:28 AM

arioch,

That doesn't sound right. When I'm doing Cuts/Gains, the Gray boxes don't change color at all that I can recall. They're just put there on screen to remind you which graphic the colorimeter is using to take the measurement.

Also, I think you should be seeing the red, green and blue cylinders along with the tolerance level horizontal area and the 100% line.

I expect that you are using the Pal/Secam Test Pattern disc. I wonder if the NTSC disc is different?

Could it be the fact that you are calibrating a plasma and CRT monitor? I've only calibrated my projector so far. Perhaps selecting plasma or CRT monitor in the software changes how the Cut/Gains adjustment screens look? Do you have access to a projector? You might try calibrating one and see if the procedure changes.

Maybe the SpyderTVPro in Europe is a little different than the North American version?

Wayne

arioch

09-16-06, 11:01 AM

It is an NTSC version, the PAL isn't released yet I believe. :)

And I don't mean the grey windows in the PC, I of course mean the ones on the TV, that are played back from the DVD. :)

The software doesn't seem to measure the gain/bias correctly at all and the bars are missing.
I noticed that the support part of the Colorvision site is down (and has been since I first tried the software yesterday). I read somewhere that there is supposed to be a version 2.0 of the software and mine is 1.X... What version do You have, mystery?

Bear5k

09-17-06, 01:05 AM

Hi Bill!,

I'll see if I can do what you asked but I'm going to need you to allow me to use my new colorimeter with the Calman software. It won't work right now because the license key only matches my old colorimeter's serial number. I've sent you an email about this.

Yup. Two different products. Both excellent for sure. And there can be a place for both in a home theater hobbyist's repertoire. :)

Wayne
Wayne,
You are all set, though the hardware is the same (you could use the Express with the STV Pro and the only difference is meter-to-meter variation). RJ has already covered the red runout issue (the wizard was wanting you to crash red contrast, btw). However, I'm glad that the STV Pro was able to help you improve on this.

Later,
Bill

mystery

09-17-06, 09:43 AM

Thanks Bill! :)

The new license works fine with the new colorimeter. I sort of gave up on using the wizard though. Those minimums and maximum values for RGB C and RGB B at 0 and 255 respectively aren't my projector's levels. I should have keyed in -50 and 50 all the way down the chart. But either I haven't quite gotten the hang of interpreting the wizard's recommendations or it isn't playing nicely with my H78. :) The last column I've understood to mean that one should move the control that number of steps either up or down. I don't think it means to actually change the value to that actual number. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong about this. So I would move the control up 10 for example or down 20 (this is just hypothetical) and the picture and graphs would get much worse so I decided to play it by ear.

Can you point out how the wizard wanted me to 'crash' my red contrast? I take it by this you mean to set it at +50?

Wayne

Bear5k

09-17-06, 10:11 AM

Wayne - The wizard is picking up the red runout correctly (it was designed using an H77 [mine] and tested with an H79 [Derek's]). The "change" column tells you that on a 0-255 scale with a current value at 137, it wants you to drop red contrast by 25 points to eliminate the runout (significant drop = crash in my vernacular). There are even more dramatic of adjustments for the other two primaries to bring them into balance. Yes, you do need to put in the appropriate start, end and current values to have this be meaningful, though. However, the wizard was definitely trying to tell you that you had a bit more work to do! ;)

Bill

arioch

09-17-06, 10:22 AM

Noone who has a clue to my problem above?

SJHT

09-17-06, 11:09 AM

Wayne,
I'm curious what your settings are (after your adjustment) for:
PICTURE Mode, Contrast, Brightness, Gamma, White Peaking, Color Temp, IMAGE Mode, R contrast, G contrast, B contrast, R brightness, G Brightness, B brightness,

I know that all proj are different, but wondered what yours is coming out to after calibration. Thanks. SJ

mystery

09-17-06, 01:13 PM

arioch,

When I have the Test Pattern disc on, the patterns don't have any tint to them at all. Just the different shades of gray along with the other patterns.

I have the Pal/Secam disc as well as NTSC. I thought you would as well. :confused:

I have to wonder if there's something wrong here. Either you have the wrong software or you need to report a bug. You should be seeing the RGB tubular bars.

Wayne

mystery

09-17-06, 01:24 PM

Bill,

Thanks for the clarification. :)

SJHT,

Since I use both my HTPC for watching movies and my Oppo, I'll give you my final settings for the two of them:

HTPC

PICTURE Mode Cinema (my choice-SpyderTVPro doesn't measure for this), Contrast 9, Brightness -4, Gamma 1 (my choice), White Peaking 0 (my choice), Color Temp 2, IMAGE Mode TV (my choice), R contrast 13, G contrast -3, B contrast 0, R brightness -12, G Brightness 1, B brightness 0.

Oppo

PICTURE Mode Cinema (my choice), Contrast 6, Brightness -1, Gamma 1 (my choice), White Peaking 0 (my choice), Color Temp 3, IMAGE Mode TV (my choice), R contrast 20, G contrast -3, B contrast -3, R brightness -11, G Brightness 1, B brightness 0.

106" Da-Lite High Power screen

Wayne

arioch

09-17-06, 04:07 PM

mystery>> Well, of course they are grey test windows (I am talking about what I see on the TV or from the projector, not in the PC).
But try raising blue gain to ridiculous levels (max) and lower red and green and you certainly will see a blue tint to any grey window. :) This is not an error...
The errors that I'm getting are:

1.
The software ALLWAYS tells me to raise blue gain and bias, whatever the measurement/visual reference. I could have a color value of x=0.280, y=0.299, and the software will still tell me to raise blue.

2.
The bars are non-existing on screen (in the PC).

And this occurs in both computers I've tried the software with, it occurs on two different displays that I've tried to calibrate and it also occurs with both the Spyders that I own.

So, yes, it must be a software error. But how come I get it and noone else? I have two completely different Windows XP installations that I've tried the software in (XP Pro and XP home). Different graphics cards, different processors... Different everything.
Surely there must be a software upgrade available from the 1.1.0.224 version I run here.

Please, can someone tell me what version you're running? I'm talking about "SpyderTV.exe". Of course it could be some dll or something that differs, but it's simply annoying when the auto updating service in the application tells me that the software is up to date when it just can't be - since it's not working as it should on two completely different PCs. :) Or is the auto update service non-reliable? If so - where can I get a newer version than the one I have?

lienly

09-17-06, 10:12 PM

thanks Mystery's report of STVPro ver.

what filter Pro comes with? what's that weighted disc for?
what the differences between STVPro and S2Pro discs?

now I just use STV to calibrate Toshiba 62HM84, plan to buy a projector in the future. $369 seems a lot to upgrade to Pro ver just b/c it can calibrate pj. what's the MSRPs of std STV vs STVPro?
anyone who owned these 2 compared the results of both? do you get same parameters suggestion?

does STVPro tell you how to enter 'service mode' of different TV brands? I just know the method to enter Tosh, what if I buy another brand TV in the future?

SpyderTVPro Review

Here's what you get in the box:
1 SpyderTV Colorimeter including filter and USB cable with a weighted disc
1 SpyderTVPro software CD
1 Spyder2Pro software CD

Mike, I just found out that people with SpyderTV can upgrade to the Pro version for $369.00. For that you get a SpyderTVPro software CD, Spyder2Pro software CD, SpyderTVPro DVD (installation guide and test patterns), SpyderTVPro carrying case, and a SpyderTVPro vs. Spyder2Pro comparison sheet.

mystery

09-17-06, 11:12 PM

arioch,

You seem to want to try to get me to understand a point which I've understood from the beginning. You're seeing a tint to your onscreen test patterns when you increase the blue and the program always tells you to increase the blue no matter how much excessive blue is in the mix. I get that. So far I seem to be the only one who's tried to help you and I have no answers for you other than what I've offered up prior. I'm running the exact same software version as you and it always tells me that my version is up to date when I try to update it.

Tonight I calibrated my Toshiba CRT direct view set which doesn't have user controls for Gains/Cuts. Since I don't have access to the service menu on this set, I only adjusted for the controls available to me in the user menu. As a result, no red, green, or blue cylindrical bars were available.

If you do have the Cuts/Gains controls available to you then you absolutely should be seeing the cylindrical bars. I have never been concerned about how tinted the test pattern becomes when I'm adjusting Cuts/Gains because I've always started out with calibration numbers that have been very close to perfect due to my use of Calman software prior to finishing up with SpyderTVPro. So the suggestions given to me by the wizard have been relatively small with regards to any of the three colors. Indeed, the wizard has actually told me that no adjustments are needed and that the colors are within tolerance but I still see room for improvement given my propensity to perfectionism. Therefore I do still tweak a bit further probably unnecessarily. But the bars do appear and they are logical. If the red contrast bar is at 115% and looks like the Empire State building, the wizard directs me to lower the red contrast.

So you see I've never seen gray test patterns tinted to any of the three colors which is why I've been surprised that you have. Either your beginning numbers are so out of whack that you can't help but see a tint, or as I've suspected, you ought to be demanding an exchange of your entire purchase. Your colorimeter may be at fault and not just the software.

You obviously cannot properly calibrate anything with this nonsense going on. I hope you are able to get this straightened out soon.

Wayne

arioch

09-18-06, 01:11 AM

:)
Ok, then I know that I don't have an out-of date software anyway.
The tint in my case, of course, appears when I have raised blue a gazillion times after the program has adviced me to... There is no apparent tint at the start.

Well... I'll just have to put my trust to the Colorvision support then, that they can help.

Thanks, mystery.

arioch

09-18-06, 03:31 PM

Problem solved! Evidently all settings in Windows needs to be English (I had Swedish settings of course) and then it all seems to work! :)
This is of course a US-version of the application so perhaps it's natural...
Well, thanks for the support anyway. :)

anbjornk

09-20-06, 05:43 PM

@mystery

Do you get consistently better results with the STV Pro vs Calman?

mystery

09-20-06, 09:54 PM

anbjornk,

I haven't played much with Calman since I got SpyderTVPro for two reasons. One is because I need to redo my offset calculations because I've switched colorimeters and I want to ensure that any tolerance variances are accounted for. Since that involves taking 18 measurements I won't be able to do that until my broken foots heals which will be at least 3 1/2 more weeks. Secondly, I had achieved what I considered to be a successful calibration for the most part using Calman and was fairly happy with my results but wanting to tweak a little more because I still felt that some improvement could be attained. When I received the SpyderTVPro and took it through it's paces, I discovered that the extra level of enhancement that I had wanted to reach with further Calman iterations, had now been accomplished given the obvious step up in overall image satisfaction.

So my opinion is that it is probably possible to get the same results with Calman as SpyderTVPro but it will take a much longer time with Calman because it's far more intensive and measures more points along the grayscale. For instance, I have a Da-Lite High Power screen which I've found tends to give Calman fits. Therefore, an offset calculation is necessary and that takes time to initially work through. Then after that you can go ahead and run through the iterations and read the graphs and try different values and hopefully eventually end up with a picture that is close to D6504.

After having done all that for about a month and being for the most part happy with my images, I discovered that SpyderTVPro took the Calman results and springboarded from there to a higher level of satisfaction. I suspect that it was easier for the SpyderTVPro software to calibrate my H78 given that I had first done a lot of work with Calman.

Nevertheless, SpyderTVPro is very fast and easy and doesn't have any difficulty taking readings directly off of my High Power screen. It's nice to not have to set up the offscreen parameters.

So to answer your question, I haven't played enough with Calman since I received the SpyderTVPro to offer a fair response. For me, I'm happier with my images now than I've ever been since getting into front projection. The draw to go back to Calman calibrations isn't necessarily to improve upon my images anymore but to use an excellent program that gives out a whole lot more information about the state of my projector. The graphs in the SpyderTVPro software aren't as useful in my opinion as Calman's and I believe that there's room for both for the hobbyist if money isn't an object.

So the bottom line would seem to be, if you have some cash, but not much time on your hands and you want a great picture but aren't into detailed graphs, then go for the SpyderTVPro. If on the other hand, you are a tweaker by nature and are patient and love to study statistics and can't afford much at this time, go for the Calman and one of the Spyder colorimeters such as Spyder2Express.

Wayne

anbjornk

09-21-06, 02:55 AM

Thank you very much, mystery :)

Nevertheless, SpyderTVPro is very fast and easy and doesn't have any difficulty taking readings directly off of my High Power screen. It's nice to not have to set up the offscreen parameters.

Can the SpyderTV Pro take accurate readings directly from the screen?

Coyotes

09-21-06, 03:41 AM

Yes. Position the pod about 12" (USA) and catching the optimal incident angle of reflection.

mystery

09-21-06, 09:17 AM

anbjornk,

I have had great success by situating the colorimeter as Coyote mentioned about a foot or so away from the screen and facing up at the center area from about a height equal to the bottom third portion of the screen. This is so the shadow of the colorimeter isn't where the measurement area is. I believe that my High Power screen is causing the Spyder colorimeter and software to work a little harder than it might if I were using my Optoma GWII screen. Nevertheless, it still works it's way through the readings but it sometimes asks me to confirm the readings by re-doing them. Not a problem at all. I think I may pull down my GWII screen and calibrate the H78 to that and see what the results are as far as user menu control changes and real life impressions.

Coyote,

What would you suggest is the best way short of Colorfacts/Accupel etc... to properly calibrate HDTV from a PVR such as my Scientific Atlanta 8300HD? I just cannot get a satisfactory picture from this set top box to my H78DC3 projector. Perhaps someone will come out with an HD AVIA that can be used in the Toshiba HD-DVD player for example. Would a calibration of this sort come close to properly setting up the projector for HDTV broadcasts?

Wayne

Coyotes

09-21-06, 10:17 AM

"What would you suggest is the best way short of Colorfacts/Accupel etc... to properly calibrate HDTV from a PVR such as my Scientific Atlanta 8300HD? I just cannot get a satisfactory picture from this set top box to my H78DC3 projector. Perhaps someone will come out with an HD AVIA that can be used in the Toshiba HD-DVD player for example. Would a calibration of this sort come close to properly setting up the projector for HDTV broadcasts? "

Wayne

Greetings Wayne,
An HD version (or supplement to) DVE is anticipated to be out in late October; presently it is in final mastering. This will get you very close.
Set top boxes and other assorted HD devices still exhibit a wide range of output varyability due to parts tolerances among other factors, so utilizing an HD DVD player as a source is taking into account the influence that product has and introduces that "fingerprint" or signature, if your will, to the calibration results.

A professional calibrator has to make a decision in the field, if the display exhibits "global" settings, whether to calibrate with a known reference...the Accupel as you suggest...so that the display is properly calibrated with all HD sources utlizing those adjustments, or to go through and HD DVD player, and hope that all other sources closely match to those adjusted parameters.

Quantum Data makes a generator that has an ATSC RF output for use through Sat boxes, however, that standard is different, as you all know, than that utilized by cable companies for HD TV. Therefore, presently there is no methodology to introduce and HD signal for testing purposes into a PVR (that I am aware of...perhaps someone on the Forum has a work-around). My decision would be to use a known reference (in my case the Quantum 802b) with the sources hoping to match to those adjustments.

anbjornk

09-21-06, 11:04 AM

How advanced is the SVT Pro ? When looking at Colorvision website it says the SVT Pro does not support Primaries/Secondaries. What does this mean?

mystery

09-21-06, 02:33 PM

anbjornk,

The summary data sheet that the program spits out after a calibration doesn't include any primaries and/or secondaries information. Perhaps this is what the website is indicating. It does measure contrast, brightness, color, tint, color temperature and grayscale for example but if you wish to delve into other measurements you'll need to turn to another method.

Coyotes,

Thanks for the information. :) I guess I'll just keep on winging it for now when it comes to HDTV. Perhaps the new HD-DVE might be worth a shot but I don't own an HD-DVE or BD player. I've tried using AVIA upscaled to 1280 x 720 through my Oppo (first generation) via DVI/HDMI to my H78 but then the images look good for DVD but aren't right for HDTV. Oh well. :(

Wayne

Uatatoka

09-21-06, 03:56 PM

Coyotes

09-21-06, 04:37 PM

This is what I did. I used a normal Avia disk (GetGray didn't work with the A1 for some reason :( ) in the HD-DVD player. I used component out for 480i, 720p, and 1080i and it matched my HR10-250 HD-Tivo output quite well.

I primarily watch DVD/HD-DVD through the HDMI output, which is D65 calibrated and the colors look equally accurate on the HD-Tivo output over component now.

Mike

Guys,
Please be certain when you are upscaling through your NTSC DVD players to set the output for RGB and not Y/Pr/Pb. This way, the display will process the incoming color matrix properly (hopefully!). Otherwise, you are sending NTSC signals, which will be decoded in the HD Colorspace ('709) and the resulting colorimetry will be improperly displayed.

Bear5k

09-21-06, 07:35 PM

Guys,
Please be certain when you are upscaling through your NTSC DVD players to set the output for RGB and not Y/Pr/Pb. This way, the display will process the incoming color matrix properly (hopefully!). Otherwise, you are sending NTSC signals, which will be decoded in the HD Colorspace ('709) and the resulting colorimetry will be improperly displayed.

Unless the DVD player properly twists the component space from 601 to 709 as part of the upconversion, of course. :)

mystery

09-21-06, 09:23 PM

Thanks for the info guys! :) It should be interesting when the new DVE disc comes out in HD.

Wayne

Coyotes

09-21-06, 11:26 PM

Unless the DVD player properly twists the component space from 601 to 709 as part of the upconversion, of course. :)

Few do, especially at $39.00!

Uatatoka

09-21-06, 11:44 PM

I'm pretty sure the HD-A1 outputs 601 instead of 709 - even for HD-DVD (known error I believe).

Even with the decoder error, the calibration of the component inputs was significantly better than no cal at all...perhaps my eye is just not trained enough to notice the colorspace conversion error yet.

Mike

muad'dib

09-24-06, 12:52 AM

First off, thanx Mystery for the great review and help via PM.. Because of your review, I decided to take the plunge and purchase the sypdertvpro..

Your review showed us how easy the wizard was and what kind of awesome results you will get.. Thanx again.... :) :)

Soooo..

I will be breif on this review..

I have a sony 60a200 SXRD lcd.. Right out of the box, picture looked awesome.. After I used the AVIA, even looked better.. WOW...

NOW.....

After using the spydertvpro today, (57minutes, as I was picky with the grey scale, kept going back and forth until perection), what I got, was.... WOOOOOWWWW, AWESOME picture!!! :) :) :)

I really could not believe that the picture could get that much better.. Skin tones are now dead on, and blacks are, well very black, yet keeping detail..

The wizard was sooo easy to use.. and very fun..

To anyone wondering if the price for the sypder is worth it, answer.. YES!! :) :)

I had so much fun, that now I will tackle my computer monitor now.. :) :)

Awesome product... :)

alwynwilliams

09-24-06, 12:35 PM

muad'dib

09-24-06, 01:08 PM

Hello,
After reading how good some of you had found this product,I looked it up here in the uk but found that it was not listed as being suitable for Plasmas
Listed were CRT LCD and Laptops only. I have tried in the past the Spyder tv and did not find that much good.The Plasma that I currently have is a 1920x1080p Pioneer have any of you tried this pro model with something like this?
Thanks
alwyn

I will trying my spydertvpro with pioneer maybe this week.. At our store, we have the elite line (1080p model will be my first test),,

When loading the software for the spydertvpro, it does give an option for plasma displays, and everthing else on the market..

Hope this helps for now.. :)

mystery

09-24-06, 09:29 PM

alwyn,

SpyderTVPro will calibrate everything except your Mother-in-law's false teeth! :D

Seriously though, as maud'dib mentioned, the software allows for any type of display device that you could think of.

maud'dib, :)

I'm so glad that you are happy with your purchase and that the calibration went so well. I'm not surprised and I am happy to have helped you. The results really are magnificent aren't they? Well worth the price and even more if you ask me. And you're right, the skin tones are really incredible. The ease of use and fun factor that you mentioned are things I noticed as well.

Congratulations! :)

Gino in Australia,

Have you had a chance to use your's yet?

Wayne

anbjornk

09-25-06, 02:41 AM

One more question: Can the Spydertv pro software output a calibration report? If so, how much info does it have?

Thanks,

alwynwilliams

09-25-06, 04:29 AM

Hello and thank you for your replies regarding the possable use of this with a plasma using a tv signal,I sent an e mail to Colour vision and they have repied that it is not compatable for plasma when tv generated only when used by computer.
Thanks once again for your help
alwyn

mystery

09-25-06, 08:37 AM

anbjornk,

Please refer to post #23 which has attachments of calibration report examples. That report didn't include color and tint because I wasn't measuring for those however the program does allow for that if your display device has those controls.

mystery

09-25-06, 08:46 AM

alwyn,

I'm not really sure what you mean or what Colorvision meant. SpyderTVPro can't calibrate TV signals going into your plasma but it can measure the test pattern results from the disc that goes into either your DVD player or your computer's disc drive. If you wish to calibrate your plasma and you use a computer as your source, then you'll have to have a laptop with the software on it in order to do the measurements. So, the computer would output the video to the plasma, displaying the test patterns, and the laptop would be connected to the colorimeter taking the measurements. A simple stand alone DVD player can also be used to send the test patterns to the plasma, and in this case you could use either the computer or the laptop to take the measurements.

Wayne

alwynwilliams

09-25-06, 01:53 PM

Thank you for your reply,what was said to me was that the tv pro was not intended for plasma tv,that was the reason they did not list it .What was intended for the plasma tv market they said was the Spyder tv kit. But I follow what you say and perhaps one of the forum members who has used this pro version on a plasma can come back and give some info. I did try the Spyder tv kit out on both the pdp 506 xde and also on my latest panel the 1920x1080p on both accasions I found the recomended readings not at all suitable for my prefered viewing,that was why I asked about this model.
Thanks once again,I must say I always find this forum most helpfull

anbjornk

09-26-06, 02:16 AM

Thanks again Mystery. One more question though :) Is it possible to get a CIE chart printout ?

mystery

09-26-06, 08:53 AM

That isn't a part of the software at this time. I don't know if there are plans for it with SpyderTVPro because they probably want people to spend the big bucks on the Colorfacts product if they're going to really get serious about calibrating.

But you can go the Calman route and get the CIE chart that way. It only adds $100.00 to the SpyderTVPro purchase and gives people who are so inclined, a little more meat to the detail of their calibrations.

Wayne

stixx

09-26-06, 12:14 PM

Hello all - my DLP allows for individual control of the primaries and secondaries for saturation and tint (user menu). Does Pro offer any functionality above thye standard SpyderTV that would leverage this adjustability?

mystery

09-26-06, 12:31 PM

stixx,

You're a lucky guy to have those controls. :) Or, you could be cursed, depending on how you look at it. ;)

STVPro doesn't delve into primaries and secondaries. RGB Gains/Cuts, contrast, brightness, color, tint, and color temperature is what it will measure. The good news is that it not only measures these controls, but will also suggest appropriate changes to be made and they really work! :cool:

I highly recommend Calman for you. I've read a thread somewhere about a Panasonic projector owner who also had these controls and was able to use Calman to adjust them. Perhaps Bill or someone can assist here.

Wayne

LVS

09-26-06, 01:45 PM

mystery,

I have a Sanyo Z4 that is still running pretty much stock out of the box. I have been waiting for spydertv pro and a review before trying this out myself.

In addition to your standard controls of Brightness, Contrast etc, the Z4 has access in the user menu to RGB White Balance(lightens/darkens tones), an overall Gamma adjustment, R/G/B Gain(contrast of color), R/G/B Offset(brightness), R/G/B Gamma(desired neutal color). My question, is does spydertv pro account for all these adjustments? I am assuming Offset is equivalent to "Cuts"?

Thanks for the info.

mystery

09-26-06, 04:26 PM

LVS,

It does RGB Gains (contrast), and RGB Cuts (brightness). Also Color temperature like Low, Medium, High. There's color, tint, brightness and contrast. It doesn't specifically deal with some of your controls and some of mine also. For instance, I have Cinema, Normal and Vivid picture control as well as Film, Video, and TV Gamma controls. None of these are measured by STVPro. You have to choose a setting yourself and then calibrate from there. In my case, I used Cinema and TV. The program uses the controls that are set up as a springboard and then takes off and does it's thing. :) So if you don't know what the best setting is for some of these controls, it'll require a bit of research or experimentation. My projector seems best when in Cinema and TV modes according to the reviews that I've read so I start with that and it works out great.

Wayne

Bear5k

09-26-06, 07:23 PM

I highly recommend Calman for you. I've read a thread somewhere about a Panasonic projector owner who also had these controls and was able to use Calman to adjust them. Perhaps Bill or someone can assist here.

Don't worry, he's got it. ;) Thanks for the rec, though!

stixx

09-27-06, 11:35 AM

Don't worry, he's got it. ;) Thanks for the rec, though!
CalMAN appears to be a very good program, it just is becoming a bit frustrating for a "noob" like me. I was hoping Pro might be "hold your hand" a bit more than CalMAN does.

The big issue I am dealing with is getting my primary's "color balance" aligned within the "RGB Level Tracking" chart. Green is at approx 105%; Blue at 100%; Red at 94%. This is consistent across all gray levels. It would seem "obvious" to me to red a bit as an initial step. After doing this though, my graph looks like the rocky mountains.

Again, not unhappy with CalMAN, just frustrated.

mystery

09-27-06, 12:34 PM

No problem Bill! :) I figure that you can't have too many calibration toys. ;)

stixx,

I highly recommend the SpyderTVPRO as well. Your frustration levels will drop to zero because the program does hold your hand.

For anyone who is interested, yesterday I decided to play with one of the software programs that comes along with the SpyderTVPro. I hadn't used Spyder2PRO before and since the documentation in the envelope suggested that HTPC users would benefit from using both programs, I thought I'd give it a try.

First off, I used Spyder2PRO to calibrate my computer monitor as a preliminary test to give me a feel for the wizard and an impression of the software's capabilities. I had already calibrated the monitor a couple of months ago using Spyder2Express. There does appear to be an improvement but I'm not concerned with accurate colors on my PC monitor because I basically use it to read only.

However, critical viewing is done through this same computer which doubles as my HTPC feeding video out via HDMI and DVI cables to my H78. This is my primary means to view DVDs although I do also use my Oppo DVD player as a secondary source.

The information sheet explains that it's best to calibrate the entire chain from source to display device when using an HTPC in order to get the best results. I had ignored this advice when I first got SpyderTVPRO because I had found the explanatory information a little ambiguous and wasn't really sure whether this step was necessary. Thus, I only originally calibrated with SpyderTVPRO and I've posted my musings on that earlier in this thread.

In doing research pertaining to Spyder2PRO, I discovered that it's important to establish a good relationship between your HTPC's video card and the display device that's interacting with it. Your video card may be set up correctly to display accurate colors to your PC monitor but that doesn't necessarily mean that the same holds true when a projector for instance is the display device used in conjunction with a PC.

So, since the documentation suggests a SpyderTVPro calibration followed by a run with the Spyder2PRO, and then finally another one with SpyderTVPRO, I thought I'd give it a go.

Using Spyder2PRO to calibrate a projector (which is really a misnomer as what you're really calibrating is the ability of the PC's video card to accurately send colors to the projector based on the test readings that the software receives off of the projection screen) is very interesting and a somewhat different experience than using SpyderTVPRO. It actually reminded me of the readings that I'm familiar with through Calman.

After you’ve mounted the Spyder on a tripod, you load and launch the included software package that plays back a suite of colors. As these colors are displaying, the Spyder instrument is taking readings and sending them back to your computer via USB. Keep in mind that the way the Spyder2PRO works is its calibration software plays back a series of carefully selected colors via your computer into the projector, and then assesses the difference between the ideal colors and those that your projector is displaying. It then adjusts parameters in your graphics card and makes it so the colors that are being sent to your projector are the ones that will result in the perfect colors as they’re projected.

Playing back the calibration routine, it appears as a sequence of colors, starting from the darkest red up to a very bright version of red, and then does the same for green and blue. At the end of the test, it sends a sequence of grayscale images. Each one of the shades of color is on screen for about five seconds, and it then cycles on to the next color in the sequence.

The software then creates a display profile that will be stored on the computer and will be used by the graphics card as a reference when it boots. Another nice feature is the fact that it also gives you the option to create other profiles for times when your projector will be used with different ambient light levels. My video card is BFG's Nvidia 6600 GT and it allows me to add as many of these color profiles as I wish. You can access the profiles by either going into your display file or even easier, utilize the Profile Chooser application that comes built into the software.

Since Spyder2PRO's job is to referee that delicate interplay between computer and graphics card, you can’t use the Spyder2PRO to calibrate your DVD player as it plays through the projector, for instance, or your cable TV box or PVR. That’s because the Spyder2PRO works by adjusting that interplay between a computer’s graphics card and its display by reading those parameters that are a result of a precise calibration routine. As you calibrate it the first time, the software creates a file that is later read by your graphics card as your computer boots, and as a result your graphics card has learned to deliver perfectly-calibrated colors every time. So, the Spyder2PRO has limited use in the home theater. But if you’re playing back movies in your home theater using a projector and your computer as a source, you’re in luck—those colors can be perfectly calibrated by Spyder2PRO. This system should be particularly advantageous for those who do presentations, and want to make sure their colors are true.

One interesting thing I noticed is that the Spyder2Pro software guides you to the EXACT spot to place the colorimeter. There's a crosshatch page in the wizard and all you do is ensure that the shadow of the sensor is centered directly over where the horizontal and vertical lines meet in the middle. I found this odd since I've always situated the device in the bottom third of the screen and had it facing up toward the middle in order to avoid the shadow influencing the measurement. Apparently, Datacolor insists that this is the proper method to use the instrument and I thought that I had nothing to lose by trying it this way so that's what I did. As I thought about it, I realized that the crosshairs of the image coming from the lens were hitting my tripod just behind the Spyder sensor like a bullseye and it occurred to me that it did actually seem logical to place the sensor in this manner.

So this calibration was the second of a three part function. I had already as mentioned earlier used SpyderTVPRO. So the idea is that now Spyder2PRO is better able to decipher how to adjust the video card in the computer so as to best interact with the projector.

I then did the final step and re-calibrated the projector with SpyderTVPRO and this time I left the colorimeter exactly where I had placed it during the Spyder2PRO tests.

The color profile created by the software is only useful specifically for my projector. I tried to view the PC monitor using this profile and it was very inaccurate. No matter, it's very easy to revert to an earlier profile created just for the monitor. But the good news is, the results after doing all of this work indicated that it was worth it! :) Using SpyderTVPRO on a projector linked to an HPTC will provide excellent results as I'd learned in the past couple of weeks. However, going this route and also implementing Spyder2PRO in the process is a highly recommendable procedure in my estimation. I have improved upon what was already a satisfying image. I've been able to qualify this by going to some scenes in movies that have always bothered me although to a much less extent after the original SpyderTVPRO calibration.

So anyone using an HTPC in their home theater should use Spyder2PRO as well as SpyderTVPRO in order to calibrate the entire chain or pipeline of video from source to display device.

I want to thank Charlie White at Presentation Masters as I relied on his review to assist me.

Here are my results which are every bit as fabulous on screen as they are on paper.

mczolton

09-27-06, 05:46 PM

Thanks for the information Mystery.

Has anyone tried the STVPro on a DLP RPTV? I am aware that Colorvision says the STVPro is capable of analyzing a DLP based display, but I have read reports that suggest a colorimeter such as the SpyderTV may have problems with the high gain screen on many RPTVs. I am hoping to get some real world testimony.

Also, someone mentioned that there was an upgrade for existing STV owners. Does anyone have a link? I'm having trouble finding it on Colorvision's site.

Thanks,
Mark

mystery

09-27-06, 06:48 PM

You're welcome Mark! :)

That's interesting about a possible problem with some RPTVs. I've had no problem with my Da-Lite High Power 2.8 gain screen but then again that's reflective and not a direct light shining at the colorimeter.

Here's a pdf of a page from a document that I have which stated that STV owners could upgrade to STVPRO for a certain fee. That may have been an early determination which has since been under review as they have told a fellow AVS member that they are still deciding what to do about that. Here's the file:

Bear5k

09-27-06, 06:58 PM

CalMAN appears to be a very good program, it just is becoming a bit frustrating for a "noob" like me. I was hoping Pro might be "hold your hand" a bit more than CalMAN does.

The big issue I am dealing with is getting my primary's "color balance" aligned within the "RGB Level Tracking" chart. Green is at approx 105%; Blue at 100%; Red at 94%. This is consistent across all gray levels. It would seem "obvious" to me to red a bit as an initial step. After doing this though, my graph looks like the rocky mountains.

Again, not unhappy with CalMAN, just frustrated.

Stixx - Go ahead and e-mail me either a PDF or your latest workbook, and let's see what we can do.

Bill

mczolton

09-27-06, 08:34 PM

Thanks for the update. I sent them an email regarding the upgrade a few days ago, but I haven't heard from them. Hopefully more information will become available shortly.

Mark

You're welcome Mark! :)

That's interesting about a possible problem with some RPTVs. I've had no problem with my Da-Lite High Power 2.8 gain screen but then again that's reflective and not a direct light shining at the colorimeter.

Here's a pdf of a page from a document that I have which stated that STV owners could upgrade to STVPRO for a certain fee. That may have been an early determination which has since been under review as they have told a fellow AVS member that they are still deciding what to do about that. Here's the file:

Lee Bailey

09-27-06, 11:27 PM

I contacted Colorvision not more than 3 weeks ago, and they responded there would be an upgrade for the SpyderTV users to SpyderTVPro (software only). They quoted $369.00 to me.

Johnla

09-28-06, 12:00 AM

I contacted Colorvision not more than 3 weeks ago, and they responded there would be an upgrade for the SpyderTV users to SpyderTVPro (software only). They quoted $369.00 to me.

This is the reply they sent me on the 14th of this month, with no price mentioned.

"Ticket ID: xxx-xxxxxx
Subject: Will there be a SpyderTV Pro ugrade?
Department: Digital Imaging - USA/Canada
Priority: Medium
Status: Open

John,

Presently we are working on an upgrade/update path to the new SpyderTVPRO package. We will have some info soon.

ColorVision USA Customer Support
1-800-554-8688"

alwynwilliams

09-28-06, 09:23 AM

I will trying my spydertvpro with pioneer maybe this week.. At our store, we have the elite line (1080p model will be my first test),,

When loading the software for the spydertvpro, it does give an option for plasma displays, and everthing else on the market..

Hope this helps for now.. :)
Just wondered if you had done the test that you mentioned with the pro and the pioneer 1920x1080p
Thanks
alwyn

alwilli

09-28-06, 01:10 PM

Hello,
After reading how good some of you had found this product,I looked it up here in the uk but found that it was not listed as being suitable for Plasmas
Listed were CRT LCD and Laptops only. I have tried in the past the Spyder tv and did not find that much good.The Plasma that I currently have is a 1920x1080p Pioneer have any of you tried this pro model with something like this?
Thanks
alwyn

Alwyn

I am getting the impression that you are confusing the Spyder2pro with SpyderTVpro???

Alvin

rjyap

09-28-06, 08:14 PM

I have a question regarding using Spyder2Pro after using SpyderTVPro tuning. My understanding is Spyder2Pro will only calibrate to PC levels so wouldn't that will create an issue where Spyder2Pro try to expand your tune video level back to PC level?

muad'dib

09-29-06, 09:51 AM

Just wondered if you had done the test that you mentioned with the pro and the pioneer 1920x1080p
Thanks
alwyn

Hello..

Sorry for the delay on this.. Will be doing the pioneer color adjustments next week.. Just waiting from pioneer to give the the procedure on how to change the white balance settings (how to get into service menu,and where in service menu controls are)..

Once I have this info, will play... :) :)

TorAtle

09-29-06, 10:40 AM

Quick question - is it possible to buy the spyder2express (same colorimeter it seems) to use with calman?

derekjsmith

09-29-06, 12:17 PM

Quick question - is it possible to buy the spyder2express (same colorimeter it seems) to use with calman?

Yes CalMAN will work with the Spyder2 Colorimeter from the Express package. The Spyder2 colorimeter is the same in all of the current Colorvision packages.

For the other types of meters, pattern generators and video processors supported see them on our support forum.

mystery

09-29-06, 09:02 PM

rjyap,

I don't know if this will answer your question but in Spyder2Pro, you can create all kinds of profiles which can be associated with whichever display device you wish. I have Nvidia 6600 GT video card as well as an applet from Microsoft and the Profile Chooser function from Colorvision that allows me to choose from these profiles which I've set up and you can configure them to either NTSC, 2.2 D6500, etc... The Spyder2PRO software defaults to 2.2 Native but that gave me a greenish caste to my images and I switched to 2.2 D6500 and I now use this profile for configuring the video card to work best with my projector. There doesn't seem to be a problem between PC and video levels. I use Theatertek and ffdshow as well.

Wayne

alwynwilliams

09-30-06, 05:56 AM

Hello..

Sorry for the delay on this.. Will be doing the pioneer color adjustments next week.. Just waiting from pioneer to give the the procedure on how to change the white balance settings (how to get into service menu,and where in service menu controls are)..

Once I have this info, will play... :) :)
Thank you for your reply,look forward to hearing your findings.
alwyn

muad'dib

10-04-06, 06:15 PM

Hello all..

Finally got the service menu codes, now I can adjust white balance..

Will try to get the pioneer done on Friday afternoon..

If not, first thing next week..

Will post review on how a plasma performed with the spydertvpro..

:cool:

muad'dib

10-07-06, 12:34 AM

Sorry again for the delay on the testing with this plasma.. Works just has been so crazy this week :(

Next week is the week I will make time for the testing.. :)

Will update then..

:)

brywalker

10-07-06, 10:59 AM

Does the SpiderTV and the SpiderTV Pro use the same device just different software?

mystery

10-07-06, 11:04 AM

Yes. The colorimeter is the same in all of the Spyder products. The software can be wildly different though. For instance, I have Spyder2Express, Spyder2PRO and SpyderTVPRO (essentially SpyderTV software with added gains/cuts measurement capability) software and they all serve different yet related purposes.

Wayne

brywalker

10-07-06, 11:23 AM

Thanks for the quick response.

Is there a big enough difference between the Spyder TV and the Spyder TV Pro to warrant the additional $400?

mystery

10-07-06, 11:52 AM

I think there is. For about the price of one ISF calibration, you can have a product that will do any display device and last you for years. Besides, SpyderTVPRO will do RGB cuts/gains whereas SpyderTV basically only supports color, tint, contrast and brightness. You can learn how to use SpyderTV's hidden support mode along with rader's spreadsheet or Calman and do a grayscale/gamma calibration that way. rader's is free and Calman will set you back $100.00 so both are attractive options fiscally when compared to SpyderTVPRO. However, if you want the least time consuming and easiest route, then SpyderTVPRO is absolutely the way to go. I have the rader, Calman and SpyderTVPRO options and they are all good and work well and serve essentially the same purpose albeit the road traveled is a little different. rader's spreadsheet and Calman will give you oodles of ways to tweak and learn about your display device. It depends on how much time you want to spend and whether you like a fairly steep learning curve or not. To me, they're all accurate so it comes down to money and time in my estimation. If you are strapped for funds yet have lots of time and are a tweaker at heart, absolutely go for Calman. If you've got the dough but the interest and time don't match the cash, then SpyderTVPRO is for you.

In other words, you don't have to buy SpyderTVPRO if you already have SpyderTV. Just get Calman and utilize the support function hidden within SpyderTV's software. This way you save close to $300.00 on the upgrade path but it will not be anywhere near as easy as if you just upgraded to SpyderTVPRO. Ya makes yer decisions and ya lives with yer consequences. :D

Wayne

brywalker

10-07-06, 12:01 PM

Hmm. It's a shame that they don't sell the software seperately for a discount. I wonder if I can get the software used or something.

Definitely something to think about. Can you point me in the direction of rader's spreadsheet?

Thanks again.

mystery

10-07-06, 02:13 PM

brywalker,

Send me a PM with your email address and I'll fire it off to you.

Wayne

tvted

10-07-06, 10:31 PM

derekjsmith

10-07-06, 11:20 PM

Reading this thread I get the impression that when dealing with FP, reading the screen is the preferred method with this package. Am I correct in assuming this? If so, why? I'm used to reading the FP directly with my SMART III and am considering a change since a SMART run is as much fun as busted kneecaps.

Perhaps its wrong of me but I'm assuming screen neutrality. Wouldn't reading the the FP directly give you more accurate Black Level readings or is this meter that sensitive?

ted

Yes reading the screen is preferred however on a good FP the light at a low level pattern is to low to be accurate even with the Spyder2 meter which does very well with low light. So you need to have a calibration system that can calculate the screen offset first. What this means is you take measurements from the screen and directly from the PJ with the same patterns, then calculate the offset. So now you know what effect the screen and room have on your picture so this can be taken into account to read directly from the PJ.

tvted

10-08-06, 12:26 AM

Yes reading the screen is preferred however on a good FP the light at a low level pattern is to low to be accurate even with the Spyder2 meter which does very well with low light. So you need to have a calibration system that can calculate the screen offset first. What this means is you take measurements from the screen and directly from the PJ with the same patterns, then calculate the offset. So now you know what effect the screen and room have on your picture so this can be taken into account to read directly from the PJ.

Thanks Derek. Simple enough.

EDIT to ask:
CALMAN and/or SpyderTVPro are capable of calculating the offset necessary?

ted

derekjsmith

10-08-06, 01:52 AM

Thanks Derek. Simple enough.

EDIT to ask:
CALMAN and/or SpyderTVPro are capable of calculating the offset necessary?

ted

I don't know about the SpyderTVPro having this feature but CalMAN was designed around the ability to use screen and/or meter offsets for better accuracy at low levels. We also have auto exposure durations for the Spyder2 when it's being used in low light again for better accuracy.

Bear5k

10-08-06, 11:35 AM

Just get Calman and utilize the support function hidden within SpyderTV's software.

Wayne - Please tell me you didn't use the support function and transcribe all of the readings manually over to CalMAN?!?! :eek: One of the things that sets CalMAN apart from the free alternative is that we do have interface directly into the Spyder2 or DTP-94 meters (soon we will release support for the Display2 and EyeOne Pro).

tvted - As Derek indicated, the feature he describes is something that we do, not the SpyderTV Pro. The STV Pro just does two point grayscale, in addition to what the STV and Spyder2PRO offers.

Bill

mystery

10-08-06, 04:08 PM

Bear5k

10-08-06, 04:32 PM

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the wake up call. :) I knew this but plead temporary (some would say I'm being modest) insanity. :D I think I was remembering how SpyderTV doesn't inherently support front projection calibration and got confused by further thinking that the support function needed to be enabled. Of course I've been able to calibrate with Calman using the Spyder2Express software so naturally SpyderTV would work as well as long as you have the cvspyder.dll file I assume.

There is a brief tutorial in your help guide near the bottom that explains how to access the support function. Is this still valid or necessary for any reason with Calman or is it something that was written for early users that's no longer applicable?

Wayne
Wayne - It's no longer necessary for any version of the Spyder. The "big feature" for v2.0 is the work Derek did in reverse-engineering the APIs for the Spyder series of meters. The X-rite and GMB meters actually have SDKs! :) If I can ever get back to my house in Houston to do some more work on the user manual (house hunting the last few weeks in Austin), this is one that will be made more explicit in the new manual.

Bill

muad'dib

10-16-06, 11:49 PM

When using an upconverting dvd player, what colour space should be used (for 720p or 1080i)??

I am trying the pioneer dv-490v, and it has "component, RGB, "FULL RGB"??

Just want to make sure that when using this dvd player with sypdertvpro, I start with proper settings..

Thanx..

Johnla

10-17-06, 03:45 AM

I finally gave up on waiting for Colorvison to finalize their upgrade plans for SpyderTV to a SpyderTV Pro and just bought a complete SpyderTV Pro outright from Amazon, and by the tracking info I was sent I should have it by this Friday. At $370 for just the upgrade, it's somewhat overpriced considering what Amazon is selling the full product for. And if you sign up for that Amazon Visa card and get the additional $30 off, not to mention the free shipping at Amazon. You're really only saving like $40 by going with the upgrade offer. So for the "extra" $40 that my full purchase cost, over just a upgrade. I will either keep my old SpyderTV just to have a spare colormeter around, or sell it off to someone else.

alwynwilliams

10-17-06, 01:36 PM

muad'dib

10-17-06, 11:37 PM

I would have thought component was the one to use.
alwyn

I forgot to mention that I'm using the HDMI connection.. Not sure if this makes a difference..

:) :)

alwynwilliams

10-18-06, 05:06 AM

I forgot to mention that I'm using the HDMI connection.. Not sure if this makes a difference..

:) :)
Well the only problem with using HDMI is that for standard def. tv you can not get an interlaced signal which means the tuner box is doing the interlacing instead of either the pioneer or vp if you are using one,but either of these is going to give a better result than just the tuner box.but your results will still be helpful even with HDMI.
Thank you for all the trouble you are going to
alwyn

HDholic

10-18-06, 03:19 PM

derekjsmith

10-18-06, 04:31 PM

Question on CalMan.

From what I understand, CalMan only works if using it from PC? Or is it possible to use it w/ patterns playing from dvd player?

Also, does CalMan walks you trough the process explaining what to adjust?

CalMAN currently uses Excel on a PC to calculate formulas, display data, charts and graphs. The hardware interface for controlling meters and generators is written in C++ class librarys in a com object wrapper so Excel can talk with it.

For pattern sources CalMAN can use GetGray, Avia, DVE or any other calibration DVD disk that has grayscale patterns on it. CalMAN also supports direct control of AccuPel and Sencore calibration generators. It also has support for controlling DVDO and Lumagen video processors built in test patterns. We do have a HTPC mode where you can use your PC as the source, we have our own patterns or you can use the free Colorfacts pattern generator.

CalMAN has a calibration wizard where you enter your current settings and then run a grayscale set, it will then make recommended changes to your settings to bring your display into calibration.

HDholic

10-18-06, 04:36 PM

Thanks for your reply.

Sorry that I didn't ask on previous post. Will either of this products work on LCoS TV's ? At this point I'm torn between the SpyderTV Pro and Calman. Where can I get a Calman package w/ meter and how much?

derekjsmith

10-18-06, 04:45 PM

Thanks for your reply.

At this point I'm torn between the SpyderTV Pro and Calman. Where can I get a Calman package w/ meter and how much?

We did have the SpyderTV + CalMAN package but they have all sold out very quick. So most just buy the Spyder2 meter from Spyder2express package for under $70, you can find it a CompUSA or other online stores.

You can get the GetGray calibration DVD from www.calibrate.tv $25

CalMAN you order from www.calman.tv for $100

mike_johnson

10-19-06, 05:19 PM

Hi, everyone. I've been lurking here for a while doing research on a reasonable colorimeter to purchase for home use. I have read the generally favorable views on the SpyderTV Pro and finally decided to purchase one. The cheapest I found the unit was from DataVision Computer Video. They are selling the Pro units on eBay (and only on eBay) for $389 +$12 shipping.

The reason I wanted to mention this is because they had errors in their eBay listing that made it look like they were selling the non-Pro version for $389. I almost didn't buy the unit from them because of the poor description and wrong photo. I emailed the seller and he has assured me that this is indeed the Pro unit. He has updated his listing and gladly welcomes purchases from AVSForum forum members. (He was wondering why they were not selling very well at this price and was very appreciative for the e-mail and corrections.) The eBay item number is 170040913890.

Please note that I don't work for DataVision nor do I have any connection with them. I just wanted to pass along my purchase experience and to let folks know about the errors in their ad since I almost passed up this deal myself.

REVELATIONS

10-22-06, 02:31 PM

^ Thanks for the ebay tip.

Just a quick question, after reading through 98% of the posts on this topic I saw no mention made of the 'ambient light' sensor that is supposed to be a new feature of the STV pro units.

Spyder2 PRO software

New Ambient PreciseLight™ Function measures ambient light and balances studio lighting and monitor settings accordingly.

If the STV is upgradeable to STV pro simply through software, wouldnt the STV units also have this sensor?

HDholic

10-22-06, 05:56 PM

After reading requirements posted on DataColor website for their products, they mention at least a Pentium 2 processor. Do these programs run on AMD based as well? Anyone here w/ an AMD laptop?

Bear5k

10-22-06, 11:41 PM

After reading requirements posted on DataColor website for their products, they mention at least a Pentium 2 processor. Do these programs run on AMD based as well? Anyone here w/ an AMD laptop?
I can categorically state that AMD products run Colorvision software, but not in an official capacity. I have to say it from EXTENSIVE personal testing... :)

muad'dib

10-23-06, 12:21 AM

A few questions for you all..

When doing the grey scale, I noticed an option to LOCK a color bar.. Why and when would you use this??

Since colortvpro only uses 2 patterens to do the cuts/gains (as opposed to using all IRE), is this still very accurate? or should I use avia and go thru all the IRE levels? (if so, what procedure would you recommend?).

I will be attempting a front projection soon, and from the help I got (thanx :) :) ) and reading all the comments, I just want to recap what I learned.. So, my understanding is: the meter should be 1 foot from screen, and placed perfect center of screen?? The software will take the shadow into account??

Thanx again for all, for putting up with these stupid questions..

On a side note::

I have the grey scale reading from the Pioneer 1080p plasma panel.. Will post them Monday night my time..

hifiaudio2

10-23-06, 02:41 PM

I know this is a broader question, but what would purchasing something like the full colorfacts suite give me over Spydertv pro, or maybe even SpyderTV Pro and the Calman software?

muad'dib

10-23-06, 11:30 PM

Hello all..

Here are the promised settings using spydertvpro (being done in a lit showroom :( :( )

SETTINGS:

-All DNR OFF
-ALL Contrast enhancments OFF
-Color Temp set to MANUAL(allows to set greyscale with this option)

-tint = 0
-color = 11
-sharpness = -2
-contrast = 47
-brightness = 2

WHITE BALANCE:

red-gain = -3
green - gain = 0
blue - gain = -10

red - cut = 3
green - cut =0
blue - cut =2

PURE CINEMA = STANDARD (seemed to look sharper than ADV setting)

Hope this helps.. :) :)

SJHT

10-24-06, 12:51 PM

What test patterns does SpyderTV pro require (assume they come on a DVD)? My scaler has 35 test patterns in it. Normally, I like to calibrate my scaler to my display and then adjust individual sources by adjusting the scaler for each input. Thanks. SJ

derekjsmith

10-24-06, 12:56 PM

SJHT

10-24-06, 02:07 PM

Which scaler do you have?

DVDO VP50.

derekjsmith

10-24-06, 03:45 PM

DVDO VP50.

The additional color patterns in the VP30 and 50 were added for CalMAN. Our next release 2.1 has direct control support via RS232 for the DVDO VP series.

SJHT

10-24-06, 04:36 PM

Guess it's time for me to look into CalMAN! I'm your basic DIYer and have relied upon DVE and other items to tune my display. Ready to take the next step. I'm always making changes in equipment, etc. and would rather learn how to so some of the basic calibration myself vs. hiring (I did that once). I also have a fairly technical background and HT is my hobby. STV PRO looked to be one option for me, but I'm willing to look at others as I have not purchased this product yet.

Does anyone know what test patterns STV PRO uses? It would be great if my VP50 had them built in and I could use them to calibrate my projector (which is an Optoma H79). Thanks. SJ

Gino AUS

10-24-06, 10:48 PM

The additional color patterns in the VP30 and 50 were added for CalMAN. Our next release 2.1 has direct control support via RS232 for the DVDO VP series.

Is there an ETA for the 2.1 release?

Bear5k

10-24-06, 11:45 PM

Is there an ETA for the 2.1 release?
Derek and LA are working feverishly on it, so we are not going to release it tomorrow, but it also won't be December unless we find that we missed something horribly, horribly wrong. ;)

muad'dib

10-24-06, 11:50 PM

Derek and LA are working feverishly on it, so we are not going to release it tomorrow, but it also won't be December unless we find that we missed something horribly, horribly wrong. ;)

What other options will be added?? (if you can let us know. ;) )

:)

derekjsmith

10-25-06, 12:50 AM

What other options will be added?? (if you can let us know. ;) )

:)

The short list for v2.1 :)

We will now have direct control over our supported signal/pattern generators. Meaning that when you select a reading we will tell the generator in use to display the correct pattern then take a reading with the meter then populate the data and update any charts needed. The hardware we support in 2.1 is: For standalone calibration generators the Accupel HDG3000 and Sencore VP series. For video processors DVDO VP series, Lumagen VisionHD series and the Crystalio II when Pixel Magic adds serial control. The Colorfacts pattern generator application version 3 and 5. Our own HTPC patterns.

For meters we now have the EyeOne Pro and Display2 from Gretag Macbeth, the Spyder2 from Colorvision, the X-Rite DTP94. We are still working on the interface for the Sencore CP series but it will probably be in after 2.1.

And many UI updates with more control options.

Again this is the short list, for more details see us over on the CalMAN forums.

anbjornk

10-25-06, 07:37 PM

For meters we now have the EyeOne Pro and Display2 from Gretag Macbeth, the Spyder2 from Colorvision, the X-Rite DTP94. We are still working on the interface for the Sencore CP series but it will probably be in after 2.1.

This also means the sensor bundled in Eye One Design?

Bear5k

10-25-06, 07:53 PM

This also means the sensor bundled in Eye One Design?
Yes. We had actually hoped to OEM these, but our rep from GMB seems to be lost in the shuffle going on over there now that X-rite has closed the deal on purchasing GMB. This was one reason the release of v2.1 has been delayed.

Bill

rerun712

10-27-06, 08:42 AM

From my understanding, SpyderTV calibrates using test patterns on a DVD. With my display, changes to settings I make on one input do not carry to the others. My question is, how would I calibrate the input I use for my HD set top box?

If I connect my DVD player to this input and calibrate, I'm using a SD device to calibrate an input that is going to be used for an HD device. Will this give good results?

SJHT

10-27-06, 09:17 AM

Does STVPRO have a HD DVD or Blu-Ray version of their test patterns? Can someone list what test patterns STVPRO uses to calibrate? Thanks! SJ

Gino AUS

10-27-06, 09:25 AM

Nope, but I dont see why you couldnt use the soon to be release DVE HDDVD

dbphelps

10-27-06, 11:32 AM

Hey guys, I just delved into HDTV with a 37" LCD HDTV and was wondering if it is a worthwhile investment for either SpyderTV or even SpyderTVPRO?

I understand LCDs have less overall adjustments available to tweak and am just looking to maximize my investment in getting the best possible picture.

I mean, is SpyderTVPRO overkill?

Is even SpyderTV overkill?

I love the display, and I already tweaked things quite a bit to get them as acceptable as they are, but am looking to to get things as good as possible given the displays available adjustments (which as this point are: Brightness, Contrast, Color, Tint, Sharpness, and a Color Temp which has a Cool/Neutral/Warm setting and an Energy Saving setting that has a 0/-1/-2 for adjusting the backlighting)...

Thanks for any and all input on this...

SJHT

10-27-06, 06:48 PM

Nope, but I dont see why you couldnt use the soon to be release DVE HDDVD

Why would this work? Probably back to my original question! What test patterns does STVPRO require to work? I'm also hoping that my scaler (which has 35 test patterns) also has the required ones to work with it. So, what does it require? Thanks. SJ

Gino AUS

10-27-06, 07:21 PM

Why would this work? Probably back to my original question! What test patterns does STVPRO require to work? I'm also hoping that my scaler (which has 35 test patterns) also has the required ones to work with it. So, what does it require? Thanks. SJ

From memory STVPro just uses IRE patterns... and the DVE HDDVD will allow you to configure your input for a HD source, and it obviously has these same patterns

Why wouldnt it work?

mystery

10-28-06, 09:01 AM

Gino :)

Very interesting point. STVPRO measures 20% and 80% IRE levels in order to determine proper cut/gains levels if I remember correctly. Using those two exact test patterns from an HDDVE or maybe HDAVIA (if/when it's ever released) may just do the trick for an HD calibration.

Someone with one of the HD players ought to try this out to see what happens when the HDDVE disc is released. I've gotten pretty good results by just leaving my DVD measurement values in place when watching HDTV. The flesh tones aren't nearly as good as when I'm watching a DVD but they are close enough to not bother fiddling with. Still, if this idea might work, it would be a step up.

Wayne

p.s. Gino, you never did do an STVPRO review for us. ;) :)

SJHT

10-28-06, 11:48 AM

From memory STVPro just uses IRE patterns... and the DVE HDDVD will allow you to configure your input for a HD source, and it obviously has these same patterns

Why wouldnt it work?

My comments were based on not knowing what patterns STV PRO uses. Assume anyone that has used the product would know. If these patterns are available on my scaler, then I could use STV PRO to calibrate. Then use the DVD patterns which obviously come with the product to change the source setting for DVD, etc. Thanks. SJ

audiblesolutions

10-29-06, 08:57 AM

I know this is a broader question, but what would purchasing something like the full colorfacts suite give me over Spydertv pro, or maybe even SpyderTV Pro and the Calman software?

Spider only permits you to use the front panel controls ( contrast, brightness, color, Hue, sharpness ) to make adjustments. Colorfacts suits will permit you to do this and do it quicker once you get the feel of it, perform grayscale tracking (D6500) and permit you to use external pattern generators and light sensors. Spider is quite a good bargain but it only reads 7 positions whereas its much more expensive sensors costing 1k-30k take readings from 128 points on up.

Related to this but surprising after so many posts on this subject, is that so many of you still think you can calibrate your displays using DVD discs. You can only calibrate a DVD player's input with a DVD patterns. For other inputs or sources ( DBS, cable, off air NTSC or ATSC ) you would need an external HD/SD pattern generator and you would have to calibrate those inputs for those sources. You need to calibrate all inputs and sources and using a DVD disc will surely end up with errors on non DVD sources. The complete software suite, with all of the ancillary tools allows you to accurately calibrate dynamic range, color saturation, colorimetry and grayscale for all sources and all display inputs. You will not be able to accurately calibrate all inputs nor color space nor as accurately perform dynamic range calibrations with Spider. For the price it's a great value and a valuable tool. But it only gets you about 40% of where you want to be unless you only watch DVDs and you have one of the few sets that has a setting close to 6500K. Even with a HD-DVD calibration disc you would still have this problem. Using a DVD you can only calibrate the DVD system: player, cable, display input. You cannot calibrate for other sources or inputs with a DVD test disc. After so many posts this ought to have been obvious. If you don't care about being accurate the DVD will put you into the neighborhood and that may be acceptable for many of you. But if you want accurate calibrations you need good calibration software, external pattern generators, possibly better light sensors and certainly software that allows you the ability to adjust more than just the front panel controls on the display.

Alan

HDTVChallenged

10-29-06, 11:58 AM

Related to this but surprising after so many posts on this subject, is that so many of you still think you can calibrate your displays using DVD discs. ....

Of course if you know what you are doing, there are workarounds for all but one of these "problems." And that last problem is the x,y,Y accuracy (or perhaps lack thereof depending on the display technology) of the Spyder2 sensor itself.

derekjsmith

10-29-06, 12:10 PM

Spider only permits you to use the front panel controls ( contrast, brightness, color, Hue, sharpness ) to make adjustments. Colorfacts suits will permit you to do this and do it quicker once you get the feel of it, perform grayscale tracking (D6500) and permit you to use external pattern generators and light sensors. Spider is quite a good bargain but it only reads 7 positions whereas its much more expensive sensors costing 1k-30k take readings from 128 points on up.

Related to this but surprising after so many posts on this subject, is that so many of you still think you can calibrate your displays using DVD discs. You can only calibrate a DVD player's input with a DVD patterns. For other inputs or sources ( DBS, cable, off air NTSC or ATSC ) you would need an external HD/SD pattern generator and you would have to calibrate those inputs for those sources. You need to calibrate all inputs and sources and using a DVD disc will surely end up with errors on non DVD sources. The complete software suite, with all of the ancillary tools allows you to accurately calibrate dynamic range, color saturation, colorimetry and grayscale for all sources and all display inputs. You will not be able to accurately calibrate all inputs nor color space nor as accurately perform dynamic range calibrations with Spider. For the price it's a great value and a valuable tool. But it only gets you about 40% of where you want to be unless you only watch DVDs and you have one of the few sets that has a setting close to 6500K. Even with a HD-DVD calibration disc you would still have this problem. Using a DVD you can only calibrate the DVD system: player, cable, display input. You cannot calibrate for other sources or inputs with a DVD test disc. After so many posts this ought to have been obvious. If you don't care about being accurate the DVD will put you into the neighborhood and that may be acceptable for many of you. But if you want accurate calibrations you need good calibration software, external pattern generators, possibly better light sensors and certainly software that allows you the ability to adjust more than just the front panel controls on the display.

Alan

CalMAN has all of these features.

It supports meters from the Spyder2 up to the EyeOne Pro. Pattern generators from AccuPel and Sencore, also video processors with builtin patterns including DVDO and Lumagen. We provide you with all of the RAW data along with charts and graphs for grayscale, gamma, CIE Chromaticity, temperature, Delta E 76/94 and RGB level tracking and color balance. CalMAN also has a calibration wizard to help you with setting RGB contrast/brightness.

So if you are just starting out and only have a Spyder2 and a DVD or have higher end equipment to get that last percent out of your display we support both and all in between.

CalMAN's only drawback at the moment is our we rely on Excel as a frontend for the charts and graphs. All of our control interfaces are written in C++ and will continue even when we change the frontend to something else.

derekjsmith

10-29-06, 12:22 PM

My comments were based on not knowing what patterns STV PRO uses. Assume anyone that has used the product would know. If these patterns are available on my scaler, then I could use STV PRO to calibrate. Then use the DVD patterns which obviously come with the product to change the source setting for DVD, etc. Thanks. SJ

Your DVDO processor does provide gray/white level patterns from 0 to 100% so you should be able to use those.

audiblesolutions

10-29-06, 01:17 PM

Of course if you know what you are doing, there are workarounds for all but one of these "problems." And that last problem is the x,y,Y accuracy (or perhaps lack thereof depending on the display technology) of the Spyder2 sensor itself.

Color space inaccuracy at the telecine conversion and the ability of the light sensor to pick up these or display deviations from the presumed or assumed NTSC or ATSC x-y Y coordinates would I'd have thought be beyond the scope of a thread on SpiderPro. If you know what you are doing you would not be using the SpiderPro with its software. You would already have someone's software suit and all of the other essential calibration tools. You might or might not use the Spider as a sensor, but I somehow I suspect you would not. I am more of a real world individual and I'll accept some of the presumptions in a piece of inexpensive test gear, like the Spider and live with the potential and likely inaccuracies. Where are you going to stop? CIS-200? CIS-2? CIS1? The SpiderPro is really a good value and it will get you part of the way to heaven. However, should you want to get the most bang out of your display you will need better tools, better software, possibly pods with more then a few sensor points, and some experience--which may, as you imply be the most important criteria of all. A tool is still a tool and requires a skilled user to get the most out of it. But the full suite is necessary if you want to perform a full calibration. At some point you have to live within the standard deviation of your tool or use your eye as a corrective. Personally, I depend more on my eye than the tool but your damned right I begin with the metric I obtain from the tool.

For the record I work for no company with a direct stake in the calibration game save my own so my opinion is not colored by a desire to see any single product from any manufacturer succeed or fail. I am not pushing product A over B nor suggesting anything other than the Spider and its software only permits basic calibration using front panel TV controls. This is a thread on Spider so my comments are directed towards the Spider. I am not suggesting that any particular software suite is superior or suggesting which tools to use. I am arguing that the Spider is good value and that at some point there is a diminishing return on investment. If you want more accuracy you will need to go past Spider's software towards some other, from whomever you might choose and certainly towards a pod with more sensors and accuracy, though I am uncertain if even the most expensive sensor would necessarily discover any and all deviations from the presumed color space co-ordinates. Ultimately, video calibration requires tools but, like audio, is as much art as science.

Alan

HDTVChallenged

10-30-06, 01:15 AM

Ultimately, video calibration requires tools but, like audio, is as much art as science.

I'll agree with that. All I'm saying is that folks have been doing "full" calibrations with far less capable equipment than SpyderTV-Pro for years. Then again, I'm pretty sure there's a point of rapidly diminishing returns ... For instance, no hardware/software package is going to be able to "fix" the funky blue CRT gamma curve on my aging 50H82 no matter how much money you throw at it. ;)

PS: It might be a bit nuts to buy a $2400 package to do your own calibration on a $500 (or even a $2000) display. :D

liujer

11-02-06, 03:00 AM

I am new to calibration would like to know if SpyderTV Pro would be good purchase for my TV.

I have a Mitsubishi WD-73732 73" 1080P DLP TV. The TV has the following controls: Brightness, Contrast, Color, Tint, Sharpness, Temp (low or high), Picture Setting (natural, bright, brilliant), Perfect Picture (individual color control for Red, Green, Blue, Cayan, Magenta,Yellow), Perfect Tint (individual Tint control for Red, Green, Blue, Cayan, Magenta,Yellow).

The postings I read states that TVPro has red, green, blue gains and cuts adjustment calibration. Are gains and cuts adjustments the same as Mitsubishi Perfect Color and Perfect Tint adjustments for the 6 colors I mentioned?

Any edcuation on this topic would be greatly appreciated.

Gregg Loewen

11-02-06, 06:45 PM

hi

Gains and cuts are color specific contrast and brightness controls. These are used to set the luminance signal (gray scale). This is not the same as the perfect color controls.

regards

Gregg

Orwellflash

11-03-06, 06:49 PM

My only experience with calibration is using AVIA-type disks. I am wondering if Spyder TVPro or some other similar set up in the $500 or less price range would be a worthwhile bridge between AVIA and ISF calibration--since the cost of full calibration is prohibitive for $3k and under projectors, for me anyway. How much better is Spyder TVPro than AVIA-type calibration? BTW, I noticed that www.hdtvexpert.com plans to have a review of Spyder TVPro this month. He seems to have "full bore" calibration equipment, so his review may provide some useful information on how well Spyder does as a cheaper alternative.

Jack

mystery

11-03-06, 07:42 PM

Scott B

11-04-06, 07:39 AM

Wayne,

I still have not ordered the SpyderTVPRO, however, this is imminent. I have a couple of questions regarding its use. What sort of information does it provide post-calibration (e.g., colour temperature, graph of gray-scale, contrast ratio, etc....)? Also, do you know if there is an owner's manual for the SpyderTVPRO available online?

Thanks,
Scott

mystery

11-04-06, 08:16 AM

Scott,

Take a look at the attachments which I've included below. These are the settings that I'm currently using and are rendering me the best flesh tones I've ever had on any of my four projectors.

You can study the three pages (I had to break them up in three files because it was too large to upload as one) to see what SpyderTVPRO reports on. It's not what users of Calman or Rader's spreadsheet are used to but it's way better than AVIA/DVE etc... At least you get an idea of where you're at with the controls that you measure.

I haven't been to Colorvision's website in a while so I don't know if the manual is available there or not however I do have one that I found a ways back online and I could send it to you by email if you'll pm me and provide me with your address. It's in pdf form and I don't have a URL for it so I'll have to send it to you by email.

Wayne

Scott B

11-04-06, 09:22 AM

Thanks Wayne. The reports do not appear to display colour temperature. I assume that the SypderTV Pro software is designed to target 6504K. The owner's manual probably explains this. I have sent you a PM with my e-mail address. Thanks again.

Orwellflash

11-04-06, 01:25 PM

Jack,

I have AVIA, DVE, Monster/ISF, Sound and Vision, Calman, SpyderTVPRO, Spyder2PRO, and I've had televisions ISF'd.

If you can afford SpyderTVPRO, you can afford an ISF Calibration. The calibration will be cheaper but it's a one time deal. With SpyderTVPRO, you can calibrate all of your TVs, and those of your neighbors, friends, and relatives to boot! :) The nice thing about having SpyderTVPRO is that you can redo the calibration in a few months or whenever you like and it won't cost you a thing more.

It's way better than calibration discs because it relies on the Spyder 2 sensor and not your eyes. It also does grayscale and you can save and print out reports of your calibrations through the provided software. Last but not least, it's a heck of a lot of fun to use and in my opinion will result in better overall results than just using calibration discs.

Wayne

Wayne,

I appreciate your response and info. The ongoing utility of having my own calibration equipment is a very strong attraction. New equipment and changing brightness of lamps, etc. make a one time calibration, at several hundred dollars, much less attractive than a do-it-yourself capability. It is very useful hearing from someone with a lot of experience with the various do-it-yourself products available. Thanks again.

Jack

Gregg Loewen

11-04-06, 03:20 PM

hi guys
SpyderTVPro is designed to target D65 - x.313 y .329
regards

Gregg

Scott B

11-04-06, 04:23 PM

Sounds good, as well as idiot proof. I will be picking up this system and will post my results and opinions in a couple of weeks.

mystery

11-04-06, 04:30 PM

Scott,

I don't think you'll be sorry. It is idiot proof because it works for me! :D

Jack,

You're welcome! :) Good luck whichever way you decide to proceed.

Wayne

HDholic

11-06-06, 12:04 AM

mystery,

What's your opinion on calman? Do u prefer it more than SpyderTV Pro for the advanced options? did it ever give u the color accuracy u achieved w SpyderTV Pro? Have u used calman after SpyderTV to compare results? I'm interested in ur opinion.

mystery

11-06-06, 07:51 AM

HDholic,

I have mixed feelings. I think Calman needs a user friendly manual which would help in understanding how to use it. Bill's report is a little too technical for me and I found myself flying by the seat of my pants most of the time and asking a lot of questions in the Calman forum which probably wouldn't have been needed if a help guide of some sort were available. It seems to me that it would take a lot less energy to devise a manual outlining the program and explaining it than it takes to individually answer people's questions. Bill and Derek are very good and responsive in this way but I think their time would be more productive if they would create a Calman for Dummies. :) Some will claim that they have had no problem in understanding it and I say well good for them. Others like myself would appreciate a guide that walks you through Calman. I'm hoping that with the new revisions coming, that there will be something like this.

Having said all of this, I did manage to muddle my way through it and through asking a lot of questions and trial and error I was able to do calibrations to my H78. I have a Da-Lite High Power 2.8 gain screen which seemed to give both me and Calman fits. Readings were extremely slow. I tried to do the offset to help with that but clumsily managed to lose those settings twice and the amount of work setting the offset up to me isn't something that I relish doing over a third time.

My results were pretty good though on screen. I do appreciate all of the data that Calman gives you about your display device. I must be honest though and confess that since buying SpyderTVPRO, I haven't used Calman. Part of the reason for this is that I broke my foot on Labour Day and am still recovering from it. But really for me, I've found that setting up and using SpyderTVPRO and the outstanding results have been an enjoyable experience. I've never seen such natural and even flesh tones ever before on any display device anywhere period!

Besides that, the thing is a blast to use. :) It isn't nearly as comprehensive as Calman and for those who are really into the nuts and bolts of calibrating, SpyderTVPRO would probably seem like a toy. But the results cannot be ignored or explained away and I wholeheartedly endorse the product and recommend it.

I do also want to say that I am looking forward to the new Calman versions coming up as they sound interesting. I just don't want to have to do the darned offset calculations because I don't have a lot of time in life and this is where SpyderTVPRO fits the bill FOR ME nicely because I can do a calibration with it in less than an hour.

I hope this helps. :)

Wayne

HDholic

11-10-06, 10:09 PM

Has anyone calibrated a RP CRT HDTV w/ the spydertvpro? What I'd like to know is if you use the green filter attachment on the sensor or does the program specify it take it off?

ceenhad

11-11-06, 05:12 PM

Hello,
After reading how good some of you had found this product,I looked it up here in the uk but found that it was not listed as being suitable for Plasmas
Listed were CRT LCD and Laptops only. I have tried in the past the Spyder tv and did not find that much good.The Plasma that I currently have is a 1920x1080p Pioneer have any of you tried this pro model with something like this?
Thanks
alwyn

Hi Alwyn,

SpyderTV Pro will calibrate all display types and will have no problems with the 5000 plasma which has gains/cuts in the user menu.

If you have questions then you know where to contact me!

Cheers,

Neil Davidson

HDholic

11-11-06, 05:20 PM

Has anyone calibrated a RP CRT HDTV w/ the spydertvpro? What I'd like to know is if you use the green filter attachment on the sensor or does the program specify it take it off?

Anyone with an opinion?

Lee Bailey

11-12-06, 12:16 AM

Has anyone calibrated a RP CRT HDTV w/ the spydertvpro? What I'd like to know is if you use the green filter attachment on the sensor or does the program specify it take it off?

For a RP CRT HDTV it would remain on.

BobRiff

11-12-06, 10:47 AM

Johnla

11-13-06, 04:29 AM

My Sony KDFE50A10 (RPLCD) does not have "gains/cuts" in the user menu.

Will SpyderTvPro allow me to adjust my grayscale by using the RGB Gains And RGB Bias adjustments in my service menu instead?

SpyderTVPro itself can not "allow" you to do anything that the TV's own adjustments won't let you do. Both SpyderTV and SpyderTVPro are only a software program and a measuring device, that can take readings and measurements, and then help to guide you when you want make changes and corrections in the TV's own assortment of allowable adjustments.

BobRiff

11-13-06, 08:51 AM

SpyderTVPro itself can not "allow" you to do anything that the TV's own adjustments won't let you do. Both SpyderTV and SpyderTVPro are only a software program and a measuring device, that can take readings and measurements, and then help to guide you when you want make changes and corrections in the TV's own assortment of allowable adjustments.
I guess I didn't state my question clearly.

Do the the RGB "gains and bias" adjustments in my service menu perform the same functions as the "gains/cuts in the user menu" that the Spyder is designed to use?

I assume they do, but would like to confirm it before I spend the money.

Bob

mystery

11-13-06, 08:58 PM

You're good to go Bob! ;)

The only difference between the user and service menu location of cut/gains is that it's easier to get at them when they're in the user menu. To get into my service menu I have to tap my head repeatedly with one hand while rubbing my stomach with the other and pressing certain buttons on my remote with my toes. :D

Wayne

Jsmith757

11-14-06, 12:25 PM

Wayne,

When you did your Optoma did you have the bevel on or off of the sensor? Would you redo it straight on to the screen or still pointed up at a 45 degree angle?

Thanks
John

mystery

11-14-06, 09:42 PM

John,

I left the filter on the sensor. The program actually tells you if/when to take it off/put it on.

I used to point the sensor up at the middle of the screen at a 45 degree angle but now I place it smack dab in the centre pointed at the screen and parallel to it. I've had the best results this way and it's also the method that Colorvision recommends.

Wayne

Jsmith757

11-15-06, 12:12 PM

I need to redo mine. I left the filter in place also. I couldn't get a close reading with it off. My first calibration was a little off on the contrast and brightness but spot on the grey and made a HUGE difference in my picture (Even my wife noticed) I also have the HP and pointed it up at a 45 degree. My projector hangs a little on the low side for the HP. I will redo it and see if i get better results.

Thanks
John

mystery

11-15-06, 04:13 PM

John,

Use the Spyder2PRO crosshairs image to show you where to place the sensor. Otherwise just do the best you can by perhaps measuring the exact center or thereabouts of the screen. Then point it straight at the middle spot and away you go. :)

I'm glad you got good results so far. It might even improve. ;)

Wayne

Jsmith757

11-16-06, 08:27 AM

I'll give that a try. I have my computer hooked up the the projector too so I'll do both programs to do a more complete calibration. Colors on my computer are way off. I also picked up a few hints on the Optoma off this site for better calibration. I have the DVDO HD and I am interested in the Calman using the VP30 serial control to do a full automated calibration. Seams like a good way to get HD calibrated without purchasing an acupel. I was thinking of upgrading to the VP30 because I need more inputs anyway.

Thanks for the tips Wayne.

John

Scott B

11-16-06, 08:57 AM

I just purchased the SpyderTV Pro but am awaiting delivery of my new projector before using it. For calibration purposes, I am considering placing the projector close to the screen in order to obtain a small image say 3-4' across. I don't know if this will make any real difference, however, it should theoretically improve the accuracy due to the much higher Ft-lamberts off of the screen. Does anybody see a problem with this approach, i.e., is there any reason to believe that this will affect the contrast and brightness settings as compared to having the projector positioned for routine use?

Jsmith757

11-16-06, 04:04 PM

JC7727

11-17-06, 09:25 PM

lkosova

11-17-06, 10:53 PM

Johnla

11-18-06, 12:49 AM

Jc77 etc,

read the reviews of this seller and make your own decision. I called and left messages and e-mailed to let them know their ad had a problem and never heard from them.

Again read the reviews. There have been lots of complaints....

Larry

Why even think of buying from him anymore?
He raised his selling price on them, and his price is now $100 more than what Amazon is selling them for.

JC7727

11-18-06, 02:05 PM

I wrote the post b4 checking the latest ebay prices, Amazon seems like the best bet.

cyborgx

11-18-06, 06:43 PM

I am considering purchasing the Spyder 2 Pro to callibrate my BenQ8700+ (720P) projector.

I am concerned that the callibration source disk they supply is a standard DVD, and thought that the colourspace, as well as colours and intensity would be different depending upon the source material, and hence I am thinking that to PROPERLY calibrate an HD system, the source material should be HD too?

Please excuse me if I am totally off the mark. I have read a lot about this in the past, and also when changing the source material and output resolutions, the required settings can be very different. In fact the projector seems to keep different settings in it's memory for each resolution.

I am ready to order the product, but want to know that calibration done using the Spyder and it's standard DVD will provide the correct settings even when I play HD-DVD's?

Otherwise how do I callibrate for the HD-DVD's?

All help and advice greatly appreciated

DaveN

11-18-06, 11:36 PM

Target has the best price currently. Check fatwallet.com. They have 6.4% cash back and a 10% coupon. I'm still on the fence for my Ruby and plasma displays.

Does the unit work with Mac? The requirements list a pentium and window but then it later states Mac OS version required.

Johnla

11-19-06, 01:45 AM

Does the unit work with Mac? The requirements list a pentium and window but then it later states Mac OS version required.

According to Colorvison it works with a Mac, with only the Spyder2PRO software, but not with the SpyderTV Pro software.
As per the features and requirements http://www.colorvision.com/profis/profis_view.jsp?id=661
And for the software updates at http://www.colorvision.com/sup_dl-upgrades.shtml

"SpyderTV PRO calibrates front projectors, plasma, RPTV, DLP, LCD, LCoS and CRT TVs. Spyder2 PRO software calibrates front projectors, LCD, CRT and notebook displays. SpyderTV PRO software runs on PC, Spyder2 PRO software runs both on MAC and PC."

"Requirements

DVD player
Remote controls for your TV and DVD
A desktop or laptop PC with Windows 2000 or XP operating system near your TV
USB port
Computer: Pentium II 800 Mhz, 256 MB Ram, 100 MB Free Drive Space
Video Card: 1024x768 resolution, 24 bpp color (16.7 million colors)
Mac OS X10.3 or higher (For Spyder2 PRO software only.)"

mraub

11-19-06, 08:16 PM

Has ColorVision announced an upgrade to SpyderTVPro for SpyderPro users yet? An e-mail response from ColorVision said such an upgrade was in the pipeline, but I can find no reference to it on their website.

Johnla

11-20-06, 12:10 AM

I got tired of waiting for their official upgrade announcement, even after I emailed them direct the 2nd time to a specific person at Colorvision as per instructions that were given here earlier, they still never got back and offered it to me. But then when I found out what the cost of it was going to be. I spent the extra $60 over just the upgrade price and I bought the whole SpyderTV PRO package from Amazon instead.

mraub

11-20-06, 11:40 AM

Johnla,

What is the upgrade cost going to be? Do you when it will be available?

Thanks.

Johnla

11-20-06, 12:36 PM

Johnla,

What is the upgrade cost going to be? Do you when it will be available?

Last I heard is that it is $380, and that it is available. But when I contacted by email the person who is supposed to be the one that will take the orders, they never replied back to me.

JC7727

11-20-06, 01:02 PM

DaveN

11-20-06, 01:41 PM

It is on their site:
http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/sr=1-2/qid=1164048066/ref=sr_1_2/602-2134629-4851843?ie=UTF8&asin=B000E2QP7Q

Search for spydertv

JC7727

11-20-06, 03:19 PM

It dosen't say pro?

gaoxingbu

11-20-06, 05:48 PM

Thanks for the info.

DaveN

11-20-06, 06:24 PM

It dosen't say pro?

Datacolor SpyderTV - STV200 is the pro model number.

Kutter

11-21-06, 06:30 PM

HDholic

11-21-06, 06:38 PM

Kutter-
You might want to look at this awsome free professional(non-excel) program here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=737550
V1.11 has Spyder2 support and is available in English(original version French). You won't be dissapointed!

richlo

11-22-06, 09:54 PM

I recently purchased a Sharp 52D62U LCD. I calibrated with SpyderTV and the result not great - there is still a pronounced red push. It seems that the SpyderTV Pro with the ability to adjust RGB gains/cuts would be helpful in this scenario.

Has anyone adjusted a 62U series Sharp LCD with the SpyderTV Pro? Do you have to go into the service menu to make the adjustments for gains/cuts? Were you happy with the end result?

I'm interested in any feedback before I drop the $380 on the upgrade kit.

Thanks in advance.

Red push is a color decoder issue and not a greyscale issue.

If you run a greyscale ramp, and view it, do the black, grey, white look to have red in it..if so, then your greyscale is off

Your redpush either can be fixed by selecting and adjusting your user color and tint. if you still have pronounced red push, then most color decoders will be in the service menu - not the user menu..

muad'dib

11-23-06, 10:11 PM

Hello..

I have done like 25 calibrations with sypdertvpro now, all ranging from plasmas , crt rear projection, front dlp projection, LCD rear projection and LCD flat panels..

Must say, WOW, all displays turned out amazing..

Did find one strange thing , on Philips Plasma and LCD's,(newer models) the TINT value spydertvpro finds is rather off.. (like +17).. So, from doing all other displays, I found the tint was always around the 0 mark.. So I make the philips tint set to 0, then BOOM, picture perfect.. Confimed with colour decoder test with avia..

IMPORTANT for GREY SCALE::::

before doing the grey scale, turn colour setting on display to totally MIN setting (OFF, to make black and white)..

Found this works awesome, takes the DVD player out of the equation for setting up grey scale (no matter if HD or SD player)..

So using the Dvd supplied to setup, HD and SD look Awesome.. Skin tones, Depth of picture are just jaw-droping.. :) :)

I found that 1080I, 720P, 480P all had same contrast and brightness settings... but..... when going into 480i, brightness always has to be turned down.... So adjust for the better resolutions, then go back and set the brightness for 480i sources...

Hope this helps...

I am considering purchasing the Spyder 2 Pro to callibrate my BenQ8700+ (720P) projector.

I am concerned that the callibration source disk they supply is a standard DVD, and thought that the colourspace, as well as colours and intensity would be different depending upon the source material, and hence I am thinking that to PROPERLY calibrate an HD system, the source material should be HD too?

Please excuse me if I am totally off the mark. I have read a lot about this in the past, and also when changing the source material and output resolutions, the required settings can be very different. In fact the projector seems to keep different settings in it's memory for each resolution.

I am ready to order the product, but want to know that calibration done using the Spyder and it's standard DVD will provide the correct settings even when I play HD-DVD's?

Otherwise how do I callibrate for the HD-DVD's?

All help and advice greatly appreciated

muad'dib

11-23-06, 10:42 PM

Thought I would share my setting with spydertvpro...

Here is goes:

Sony SXRD 60" A2000

Picture Mode = custom
Advanced Iris = Auto2
Picture = 98
Brightness = 54 (1080i, 720p, 480p)
Color = 50
Hue = G1
Color Temp = Warm2
Sharpness = 50
Noise Reduction = Off

ADVANCED SETTINGS:

Black Corrector = off
Gamma = off
Clear White = off
Live Color = off
Detail Enhancer = Max
Edge Enhancement = High

WHITE BALANCE:

Red-gain = 0
green-gain = 0
Blue-gain = -10

Red-bias = -1
Green-bias = 0
Blue-bias = -4

Hope this helps...

I was using an oppo 970 dvd player, set to 1080i, using RGB color space..

Video Running thru Anthem D2 video scaler, set to 1080p output, RGB colour space...

Skin tones are just perfect, depth of black is unreal...

Hope this helps others...

:) :) :)

jimwhite

11-24-06, 08:04 AM

"Hope this helps others..."

your enthusiasm, yes.... your numbers, not likely.... every set is different or they wouldn't NEED calibration ! :eek:

:cool:

blb1215

11-24-06, 10:16 AM

Does anybody know if the dvd disk supplied with Spydertv pro is copy protected? I am getting a HD Dvd player (HD-A2) that I would like to use to feed a 1080i signal through component. The player will not upconvert copy protected disks through component.

Thanks,
Barry

Kutter

11-24-06, 02:40 PM

I wonder if there will be an updated set of HD-DVD's released to work with the Spyder's?

Scott B

11-24-06, 03:14 PM

What would be really nice is the ability to ajust primary and secondary colours. I know SpyderTV Pro is designed to be used with controls that are common to user menus, however, we are seeing more and more projectors released with colour management controls in the user menu.

Johnla

11-24-06, 04:57 PM

Johnla,

What is the upgrade cost going to be? Do you when it will be available?

Thanks.

For those who are still interested in the upgrade package. Colorvison finally has it available for order on their website, the price is $370.

http://www.colorvision.com/profis/profis_view.jsp?id=701

mystery

11-24-06, 08:00 PM

Scott B,

I concur. I'm hoping that Colorvision will update the software to SpyderTVPRO with some goodies like you suggest.

By the way, how close are you to getting STVPRO and your new projector? :)

Wayne

mystery

11-24-06, 08:12 PM

muad'dib,

Thanks for the tips. :) I take it your suggestions about turning off the color is for composite or s-video and component? When I calibrate with DVI/HDMI the color value is optioned out.

You've done a lot of different types of sets now. Glad you've had so much success. This tool is an absolute blast to use isn't it? :)

Wayne

Scott B

11-24-06, 09:26 PM

Wayne,
I have had the SpyderTV Pro for about two weeks now. I just got my new projector today which I plan to calibrate to tomorrow. I will be sure to post my opinions of both the SpyderTV Pro and the projector.

mystery

11-24-06, 10:13 PM

Good stuff! :)

muad'dib

11-24-06, 10:50 PM

Hello Wayne..

I was able to adjust the colour control on all types of hookups (HDMI, component, composite, and s-video)..

Have not come across a set yet that does not allow colour adjustment on HDMI.. Only tint....

I guess every company has their reasons why to lock certain controls..

Hope that helps.. :) :)

muad'dib,

Thanks for the tips. :) I take it your suggestions about turning off the color is for composite or s-video and component? When I calibrate with DVI/HDMI the color value is optioned out.

You've done a lot of different types of sets now. Glad you've had so much success. This tool is an absolute blast to use isn't it? :)

Wayne

mystery

11-24-06, 11:14 PM

Oh, you're talking specifically about TV sets. :o Okay. I was referring to my projector. There's no provision for color adjustment on it with HDMI/DVI.

muad'dib

11-24-06, 11:23 PM

No Probs... :)

On DLP Yamaha front projection, it let me use HDMI with colour adjustment.. Strange that your projector does not.. oh well.. :)

Oh, you're talking specifically about TV sets. :o Okay. I was referring to my projector. There's no provision for color adjustment on it with HDMI/DVI.

Scott B

11-28-06, 10:59 AM

I finally got a chance to use the SpyderTV Pro to calibrate my new projector (Panasonic AX100) this past weekend. I had considered various more expensive video calibration systems but were put off by their complexity. There are cheaper/free software/spreadsheet systems available, however, these require a lot of user input and can have long learning curve. I am pretty busy and want to spend my free time using my HT, not screwing around trying to get things setup. Based upon user feedback on the SpyderTV Pro, I decided to give it a shot.

SpyderTV Pro is idiot proof (an absolute necessity for me case as my wife always point out), fun to use, and quick (my first calibartion took about an hour). I used the system to adjust the brightness, contrast, color temperature, color, tint, and RGB gains and cuts on the AX100. I calibrated the Normal mode in the AX100. Based upon the recommendations of the software, very significant changes were made to the contrast and brightness settings, the colour temperature setting was decreased a fair bit, and the colour and tint settings were altered slightly. Surprisingly, the AX100 greyscale tracking was pretty good out of the box and only required a few relatively minor tweeks to the RGB gains and cuts. The calibration went very well, however, I did notice that I was losing shadow detail with the recommended brightness setting. The SpyderTV Pro software instructed me to turn off the dynamic iris when conducting the calibration - this resulted in crushed blacks when I turned the dynamic iris on for regular viewing. After quickly realizing what the problem was, I hooked the SpyderTV Pro back up, and instructed it to repeat the brightness setting calibration (this time with the dynamic iris on). The resulting brightness setting was quite different than before. I confirmed that the recommended setting was optimal by manually adjusting the brightness setting up and down while viewing a scene which has a lot of shadow detail (the mines of Moria in LOTR).

After saving my final settings, I settled into watching a couple of movies. The results were very impressive. In outdoor scenes, flesh tones looked natural at all lighting levels (no sunburnt red or I am about to puke green colours were apparent). As expected, flesh tones on indoor scenes were affected by the lighting used in the movie. Significant detail was evident in whites as well as blacks. Grass and trees had a natural green look to them. To sum up, I am very happy with the ease of use and performance of the SpyderTV Pro. Hopefully we will see updates in the future that will allow for the calibration of primary and secondary colours.