Id like to compile a list for some SD dvd collectors that may want to watch a dvd in their collection to see how excellent they look upconverted. Actually bordering HD DVD quality and most of the time may actually pass for a poor transfer HD disc :)

I'll start off with the first two titles. I highly recommend those with these films in SD give it a go in your hd a1 and post your thoughts about it.

1. Find me Guilty
2. The Ring 2

In my experience, I would add Black Hawk Down to the list.

The Alien: directors cut DVD blew my socks off the other night with it's great picture quality upconverted on the HD-A1. Looked very close to the DVHS version, which I owned in the past.


Marc.

Star Wars (original)

Blade.

Superbit's "Underworld." and "Lord of War'.

Shaun of the Dead & Alien vs. Predator

Anything by Pixar Studios (Toy Story 1&2, Incredibles, Bug Life). Also, when I saw the movie Crash I wondered "how could they possibly improve this picture." It looks/ sounds perfect.

Sin City.

I just watched Ryan's Daughter the other night. That movie looked absolutely beautiful. They just don't have cinematography like that anymore. Still I wondered how much better it would look in HD. I'm sure it will be years before I find out.

The Matrix from the box set

Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire.

None

I was really impressed by the SD version of Kiss Kiss Bang Bang it looks very similar to the HD version.

Matrix Reloaded

None
Ditto. Maybe on a smaller display this thread is relavent, but with a FP setup even the worst HD-DVD disc is FAR superior to the best SD disc. At least that's been my experience.

If there is standard-def material that looks almost like HD than something is not right. Maybe if you are watching your screen from more than 3 screen widths away but not up close. This is with the cleanest and most finely detailed dvd using ffdshow's adcanced resizing methods. You might convince someone it's really soft 720p at best.

None

Agreed. The very title of the thread is ludicrous in my opinion!

None

Thats my vote.

None
Ditto. Maybe on a smaller display this thread is relavent, but with a FP setup even the worst HD-DVD disc is FAR superior to the best SD disc. At least that's been my experience.
If there is standard-def material that looks almost like HD than something is not right. Maybe if you are watching your screen from more than 3 screen widths away but not up close. This is with the cleanest and most finely detailed dvd using ffdshow's adcanced resizing methods. You might convince someone it's really soft 720p at best.
Agreed. The very title of the thread is ludicrous in my opinion!
Thats my vote.

Gee! You guys sure know how to thread crap -- I'm really impressed!

Wow! Awe just doesn't begin to cover it!

-- Trevor

SD films that look almost HD when upconverted on the HD A1 on a CRT set.

Star Wars
North by Northwest
Fifth Element SB

thats it so far.

Of course all things being equal and as an AVS'r that knows what to look for in PQ, there is no upconverting player in the market that will fool us.

Master and Commander and Fifth Element SB looked great, but not HD

Probably any of these titles, especially The Criterion version of "The Rock":

http://whiggles.landofwhimsy.com/writings/halloffame.html

absolutely NONE

Some might look very pleasing, but they won't even get close to true HD transfers

Why upconverted on the HD A1 only? I've used a HTPC for years and it does as good or better job of upconverting DVD's as the Toshiba with a lot more flexibility. I'm sure there are many other DVD players that do as good a job at upconverting DVD's. Also the title should be "...look almost HD..." because if there is/were a HD-DVD version it would contain and display more detail.

Why upconverted on the HD A1 only? I've used a HTPC for years and it does as good or better job of upconverting DVD's as the Toshiba with a lot more flexibility. I'm sure there are many other DVD players that do as good a job at upconverting DVD's. Also the title should be "...look almost HD..." because if there is/were a HD-DVD version it would contain and display more detail.

I think the OP wants HD-A1 because this is in the HD DVD area. :confused:

Stace

I think the OP wants HD-A1 because this is in the HD DVD area. :confused:

Stace
Upconverting a DVD is not HD no matter what player or HTPC does it. ;)

Upconverting a DVD is not HD no matter what player or HTPC does it. ;)

We are in agreement on that. I thought the OP asked about SD discs that are "near" HD quality. Obviously very subjective. :)

Stace

Gee! You guys sure know how to thread crap -- I'm really impressed!

Wow! Awe just doesn't begin to cover it!

-- Trevor

You asked, I answered. I used to own over 200 DVDs and none look like HD being soft, dull and suffering from edge enhancement or other imperfections compared to HD. If they look like HD then get a new TV or check your connections. Im serious this is the best picture available - dont miss out.

Well 35mm part of the U2 show look better than 99% than my DVD's and 100% of my DVD shows LOL :)

None

:cool:

I'm a BIG DVD fan and collector, but let's get real. The best upconverted DVD can't hold a (pixelated, stair-stepped) candle to true HD.

I agree Trevor. Some of these guys could use a couple of courses in manners. If the wording of the title of the thread bothers you, then think of it as, what are the best looking upconverted SDs in your opinion? There is no need to be so rude.

I agree Trevor. Some of these guys could use a couple of courses in manners. If the wording of the title of the thread bothers you, then think of it as, what are the best looking upconverted SDs in your opinion? There is no need to be so rude.

Having a dissenting opinion doesn't equal rudeness.

I don't own a HD-A1 (yet!), but have seen it at a friend's house. Either way, I've seen some pretty good looking DVD's but what I notice is that a nice close up on a good player can look very good but you take any long shot and that is where DVD suffers. I guess there is just not enough info to recreate long shots. This is where HD-DVD and broadcast HD excels. You can have some beautiful scenic long shots with great clarity.

This is easily seen in things like LOTR. There are some great close shots but once they go to the big landscape shapes...YUCK! I'm so looking forward to getting a player drooling all over myself!!! Should hopefully be within the month!

I just watched Kingdom of Heaven, and it looked extreamly good for DVD, still of course can't compare to full true HD, but still the most impressive I've seen from an SD DVD.

You asked, I answered. I used to own over 200 DVDs and none look like HD being soft, dull and suffering from edge enhancement or other imperfections compared to HD. If they look like HD then get a new TV or check your connections. Im serious this is the best picture available - dont miss out.

True, the OP got a little carried away in his title, but his post clarifies. Shouldn't beat the poor guy up just because of enthusiasm. Read the post.

-- Trevor

Having a dissenting opinion doesn't equal rudeness.

Rude is definitely good word choice. It's obvious what the OP's intent is (read his post), and it's not necessary to behave like a big-headed ass. There are plenty of SD discs that look excellent upscaled by the A1, and obviously they fall short of HD-DVD quality. It doesn't take Einstein to figure that out.

-- Trevor

The Matrix Reloaded and The Matrix Revolutions.

Well my Denon DVD player was MUCH better at upconverting than the A1 was, but I am VERY impressed with how well SD DVDs compare to HDDVD on my AE900U. The differences are subtle and only real geeks will get off on the improvement. For HT fans, HD rocks, for Joe 6Pack, he is going to be very very very wary of upgrading his library.

Sam

Rude is definitely good word choice. It's obvious what the OP's intent is (read his post), and it's not necessary to behave like a big-headed ass. There are plenty of SD discs that look excellent upscaled by the A1, and obviously they fall short of HD-DVD quality. It doesn't take Einstein to figure that out.

-- Trevor

I read his post. It says: "Actually bordering HD DVD quality and most of the time may actually pass for a poor transfer HD disc".

My answer remains "None."

I read his post. It says: "Actually bordering HD DVD quality and most of the time may actually pass for a poor transfer HD disc".

My answer remains "None."

And the thread title remains "SD films that look HD when upconverted on the HD A1”

Rude is definitely good word choice.-- Trevor

See that’s where we disagree Trevor. The OP asked a question and I answered with “none”. This is the Audio Video Science Forum not yahoo answers or Mary Beth’s DVD emporium.

I don’t feel it’s rude or even inconsiderate to disagree with the premise of the thread, as long as you do so without personal attacks. To even imply that SD-DVD’s can “look HD” might very well confuse new members who legitimately wonder about such things.

Now if I’d said "none you stupid dolt", that would of course be rude. I just fail to see how an honest answer in the form of “none” could ever be considered rude. I agree whole heatedly with Jorus: “Having a dissenting opinion doesn't equal rudeness”.

If we’re to encourage ideas such as SD-DVD’s can look “look HD”, rather than offer a differing opinion, then I have to wonder what’s the point of even participating at Audio/Video Science Forum, there are plenty of other forums that encourage fallacies of this sort.

Now if you want to nit-pick, your statement of:

There are plenty of SD discs that look excellent upscaled by the A1, and obviously they fall short of HD-DVD quality. It doesn't take Einstein to figure that out.-- Trevor

Could be considered far ruder than “none”. The reply “none” makes no aspersions as to the thread participants intelligence, as it’s merely an opinion. The statement “It doesn't take Einstein to figure that out” could be construed as an aspersion to the thread participant’s intelligence however.

True, the OP got a little carried away in his title, but his post clarifies. Shouldn't beat the poor guy up just because of enthusiasm. Read the post.

-- Trevor

HOw about we re-phrase it "What standard DVD looks great upconverted in the HD DVD player? :)

My vote is Starship Troopers Superbit.

I have an XA1 & a Sony 57" rear projection CRT with 1080i, and damn, Starship Toopers SB approaches the quality of some of the "HD Lite" channels in Dish Network HD.

MAN! This thread needs a time out! No more coffee for anyone today!

;)

Id like to compile a list for some SD dvd collectors that may want to watch a dvd in their collection to see how excellent they look upconverted. Actually bordering HD DVD quality and most of the time may actually pass for a poor transfer HD disc :)

I'll start off with the first two titles. I highly recommend those with these films in SD give it a go in your hd a1 and post your thoughts about it.

1. Find me Guilty
2. The Ring 2

I was saying that to my son last night as we were watching Lord of the rings extended cuts, which is an upgraded transfer because its on 2 disks, that someone should compile a list of sd dvds and rate them. That dvd look beautiful.

Jeff

You should see the PAL LOTR transfers, they smoke the R1 versions!

:)

True, the OP got a little carried away in his title, but his post clarifies. Shouldn't beat the poor guy up just because of enthusiasm. Read the post.

-- Trevor

I will not conform but will say that Battle Star Galactica because of the way it is shot/filmed (many close ups) looks acceptable - are we all friends now?

. The reason I mentioned TV is because I used to own the 42 inch version of my set (I have 50 inch) and both DVDs and standard definition looked very good albeit at a smaller picture size, Extrapolating to smaller TVs and taking into account my own experience that some sets are noisy in picture or in the case of Sharp offering only 540p for 1080i sources and things get complicated. I would no doubt have answered this thread in a more agreeable fashion if I still had the 42 inch. However if the majority here are stisfied with good quality DVD then the HD-DVD format will have a tough time breaking thru. On the other hand if people realize its the best damn picture you will see on your new HDTV then it will do well. I feel strongly for the latter and hope most people with HDDVD feel the same. Since getting a new HD-DVD player I dont look forward to watching DVDs and will even wait to watch those I have not yet seen till they arrive on HDDVD like Aeon Flux, V for Vendetta Superman etc.

MAN! This thread needs a time out! No more coffee for anyone today!

;)

I actually seen the thread and replied before I looked at everybody flipping out. I know hd-dvd is great, but not all the transfers are great. Most of us still use the player for sd dvd. That's all this is about. I love HD DVD.

Jeff

You should see the PAL LOTR transfers, they smoke the R1 versions!

:)

Can I play them. How do I get them.

I actually seen the thread and replied before I looked at everybody flipping out. I know hd-dvd is great, but not all the transfers are great. Most of us still use the player for sd dvd. That's all this is about. I love HD DVD.

Jeff
Damnit, I was halfway through a response when it went away! :mad:

I was supporting Jeff and noting that many of the other posters were NOT giving me a reason to get off the fence when they bad-mouth the Toshiba's upconverting talents. I have 400 SD DVDs and many are classics; I want them to look as good as possible. If Toshiba shines at HD but doesn't make the SDs look fab, then why take the plunge now when so many (I am NOT saying ALL) of the titles released so far are not films I'd have in my current collection. My old man used to say you can't shine **** and a glorious PQ on a dog film does not float my boat! I'll wait for a next-gen unit that addresses some of the Toshiba's shortcomings. :(

Can I play them. How do I get them.
Ditto! :D

Hey guys! You need a player that either outputs PAL natively like my Oppo or the Panny S97 for the increase in Pic. resolution, (576 lines as opposed to the 480 on the NTSC release to be optimized) or upscales the PAL signal to 720P, (the oppo again) without converting to NTSC. So your display would have to accept a 50hz. signal. They would probably still look better converted to NTSC than the R1 discs but it would seem like it wouldn't really be worth it then.
The R2 PAL discs are also less filtered. Bjoern does a great comparison of all the versions here.
http://www.videophile.info/Review/FOTR/FOTR_01.htm

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/9852/03c3vl0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

You can clearly see the added detail in the hands and toes and less Edge enhancement.
I had the R1 discs and when I got the R2 PAL discs and compared I sold the R1s' right away. The R2s were much better IMHO. Smoother, more detailed, more filmlike, less filtered...

:)

I think there are a few people that shouldnt take such things so seriously. If you disagree thats fine, Ive never encountered such angst from a thread Ive made since joining.

Obviously there are some disagreements, but the ones being rude, I feel stems from insecurity.

anyhow, back on topic, Ive tried out incredibles and the matrix trilogy, and found more compression with them then the ring 2 and find me guilty. those two are the only titles Ive noticed with a very good transfer upscaled out of my 400+ dvds so far. LOTR, King Kong and Matrix trilogy look bad IMO compared to HD DVD.

R2 and FMG have virtually no compression artifacting I can see, at least not as blatantly obvious.

of course this is my subjective opinion. Some folks need to loosen up a bit.

You should see the PAL LOTR transfers, they smoke the R1 versions!

:)
Yeah, I never saw the NTSC transfers as DVD "reference quality"

They're weak.

The Rings DVD that came packed with The Ring DVD to promote The Ring 2's theatrical release has great picture quality, for a DVD, especially on the A1.

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/7678/vlcsnap300627pp6.jpg

ill post some shots of upconverted ring 2 stills later on today.
people that are knocking if, have not actually taken the time to actually test it and see how good the film looks upconverted.

I havent tried the ring 1 yet. But the only reason I discovered this was because a friend of mine popped in a ring demo disc which had the ring 2 demos and I was flabberghasted with the resulting picture quality.

those that are so bent on denying that an SD dvd can actually look pretty good, and may even resemble an hd transfer (lower end ones of course) stick Ring 2 in your darn players and watch it yourself before you attack the thought of every sd disc looking bad.

And the thread title remains "SD films that look HD when upconverted on the HD A1”



See that’s where we disagree Trevor. The OP asked a question and I answered with “none”. This is the Audio Video Science Forum not yahoo answers or Mary Beth’s DVD emporium.

I don’t feel it’s rude or even inconsiderate to disagree with the premise of the thread, as long as you do so without personal attacks. To even imply that SD-DVD’s can “look HD” might very well confuse new members who legitimately wonder about such things.

Now if I’d said "none you stupid dolt", that would of course be rude. I just fail to see how an honest answer in the form of “none” could ever be considered rude. I agree whole heatedly with Jorus: “Having a dissenting opinion doesn't equal rudeness”.

If we’re to encourage ideas such as SD-DVD’s can look “look HD”, rather than offer a differing opinion, then I have to wonder what’s the point of even participating at Audio/Video Science Forum, there are plenty of other forums that encourage fallacies of this sort.

Now if you want to nit-pick, your statement of:



Could be considered far ruder than “none”. The reply “none” makes no aspersions as to the thread participants intelligence, as it’s merely an opinion. The statement “It doesn't take Einstein to figure that out” could be construed as an aspersion to the thread participant’s intelligence however.

"None" in this context serves only as argumentative contradiction -- nothing constructive to the thread is provided. If you prefer "thoughtless" to "rude", fine, I'll accept that.

Nobody in this thread is attacked in any fashion by my Einstein comment. All here know (including the OP) that HD-DVD wins the comparison. The Einstein remark merely serves to emphasize that fact, and it succeeds.

So, I disagree with both aspects of your response.

-- Trevor

Anything by Pixar Studios (Toy Story 1&2, Incredibles, Bug Life). Also, when I saw the movie Crash I wondered "how could they possibly improve this picture." It looks/ sounds perfect.

Animation doesn't count as it lends itself to easier math than live action material.

Ditto. Maybe on a smaller display this thread is relavent, but with a FP setup even the worst HD-DVD disc is FAR superior to the best SD disc. At least that's been my experience.

Agreed.

On a smaller screen/display it definately is possible with lots of DVDs. Even with the HD-DVD emo disc which is slanted to sell HD-DVD on a 60ish display or below the differences are so minimal that 95% of the public will not see them.

well I dont use a small screen.

but than Im watching it on a 720 display, either way, Im happy with the results :)

watching on a 9'+ screen. So maybe im just lucky that way :D :p

Ill try to post pics up tonight, I literally saw facial pore textures and fine strands of hair on the ring 2 sd transfer, which is something I only usually noticed on HD DVD.
the only draw back I noticed that stood out were ona few scenes with small details in the background which isnt 3 etched like HD DVD would look.

The Hong Kong DVD of The Eye 2 (Jian gui 2) looks excellent on my A1 as well.

The best looking HK DVD I've ever seen, even with a DTS track on the disc!

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/5851/vlcsnap318182pc3.jpg

terminator 2 extreme edition looks pretty good upconverted.

I will not conform but will say that Battle Star Galactica because of the way it is shot/filmed (many close ups) looks acceptable - are we all friends now?

. The reason I mentioned TV is because I used to own the 42 inch version of my set (I have 50 inch) and both DVDs and standard definition looked very good albeit at a smaller picture size, Extrapolating to smaller TVs and taking into account my own experience that some sets are noisy in picture or in the case of Sharp offering only 540p for 1080i sources and things get complicated. I would no doubt have answered this thread in a more agreeable fashion if I still had the 42 inch. However if the majority here are stisfied with good quality DVD then the HD-DVD format will have a tough time breaking thru. On the other hand if people realize its the best damn picture you will see on your new HDTV then it will do well. I feel strongly for the latter and hope most people with HDDVD feel the same. Since getting a new HD-DVD player I dont look forward to watching DVDs and will even wait to watch those I have not yet seen till they arrive on HDDVD like Aeon Flux, V for Vendetta Superman etc.

An underlying point within this thread is that most, if not all of us, have a significant investment already in SD DVD. There's certainly no question that HD-DVD is the winner in the SD Vs HD comparison, however, HD replacements are largely unavailable.

Hence, the primary use of the HD-DVD player will typically be for upscaling SD material, not playing back HD-DVD. It's certainly true, the capability of the individual's hardware will effect the difference observed between the two formats, but that doesn't invalidate the fundamental issue.

The performance of the player as an upscaler is VERY important to me, and I suspect to most others. It may not be the best on the market, but it's in the upper echelon. No, HD performance is still going to win against upscaled 720x480 (darned well better do), but that doesn't mean the upscaled output can't carry some of the same flavors (though less fully realized) -- and that's really where the thread is living and where the OP is coming from. (If the OP wishes to disagree with me -- please do.)

I consider it a mistake to bash SD DVD just because it's not HD-DVD, and although that doesn't come up as much on this forum as bashing BD, it still shows up often enough. However, it's one thing to compare a DVD that has an available HD alternative, but to blindly bash them all is not useful, it's just another form of fan-boyism.

-- Trevor

An underlying point within this thread is that most, if not all of us, have a significant investment already in SD DVD. There's certainly no question that HD-DVD is the winner in the SD Vs HD comparison, however, HD replacements are largely unavailable.

Hence, the primary use of the HD-DVD player will typically be for upscaling SD material, not playing back HD-DVD. It's certainly true, the capability of the individual's hardware will effect the difference observed between the two formats, but that doesn't invalidate the fundamental issue.

The performance of the player as an upscaler is VERY important to me, and I suspect to most others. It may not be the best on the market, but it's in the upper echelon. No, HD performance is still going to win against upscaled 720x480 (darned well better do), but that doesn't mean the upscaled output can't carry some of the same flavors (though less fully realized) -- and that's really where the thread is living and where the OP is coming from. (If the OP wishes to disagree with me -- please do.)

I consider it a mistake to bash SD DVD just because it's not HD-DVD, and although that doesn't come up as much on this forum as bashing BD, it still shows up often enough. However, it's one thing to compare a DVD that has an available HD alternative, but to blindly bash them all is not useful, it's just another form of fan-boyism.

-- Trevor

Well said Trevor. I could not agree with you more. I am one with a fairly large SD DVD collection feel the same. :)

Stace

An underlying point within this thread is that most, if not all of us, have a significant investment already in SD DVD. There's certainly no question that HD-DVD is the winner in the SD Vs HD comparison, however, HD replacements are largely unavailable.
I agree Trevor, there are thousands of films on DVD that will not make it to either next gen HD format for a long time. Not everything is Superman, Harry Potter, or V for Vendetta. :p

Glancing over at my DVD collection I'm reading titles like Crazy Lips, Bhoot, The Grapes of Death, and Session 9. It's highly doubtful this films will debut on HD for years, if ever...

That doesn't even include the supplemental material that could only be on the DVD edition. I remember seeing DVDs be releasing with NONE of the great extras on the LD editions.

So while yes, HD DVD is superior, completely trashing DVD's advantages is rather shortsighted. It's like loving SACD so much you disregard the endless amount of music on CD.

An underlying point within this thread is that most, if not all of us, have a significant investment already in SD DVD. There's certainly no question that HD-DVD is the winner in the SD Vs HD comparison, however, HD replacements are largely unavailable.

Hence, the primary use of the HD-DVD player will typically be for upscaling SD material, not playing back HD-DVD. It's certainly true, the capability of the individual's hardware will effect the difference observed between the two formats, but that doesn't invalidate the fundamental issue.

The performance of the player as an upscaler is VERY important to me, and I suspect to most others. It may not be the best on the market, but it's in the upper echelon. No, HD performance is still going to win against upscaled 720x480 (darned well better do), but that doesn't mean the upscaled output can't carry some of the same flavors (though less fully realized) -- and that's really where the thread is living and where the OP is coming from. (If the OP wishes to disagree with me -- please do.)

I consider it a mistake to bash SD DVD just because it's not HD-DVD, and although that doesn't come up as much on this forum as bashing BD, it still shows up often enough. However, it's one thing to compare a DVD that has an available HD alternative, but to blindly bash them all is not useful, it's just another form of fan-boyism.

-- Trevor


I couldn’t disagree more. I too have a significant DVD collection, that however doesn’t cloud my understanding that none of them “look HD” How does that equal “bashing SD DVD” ?

If you feel that DVD “looks HD” then kudos to you, I find it a bit odd however that you feel the need to squelch someone who thinks differently by tossing in terms like bash and fanboy.

I also totally disagree that “the primary use of the HD-DVD player will typically be for upscaling SD”. I can tell you point blank its up-scaling abilities played no part whatsoever in my decision to buy the player. If your mileage varies then congratulations, however all encompassing statements like “primary use of the HD-DVD player will typically be for upscaling SD material” are a bit nearsighted.

This would be likened to specifically buying a SACD player to listen to CD’s. Hmm, disagreeing that up-scaled DVD’s “look HD” is bashing? Ok… I haven’t seen anyone make any dispersions to DVD in this entire thread, those who disagree with you are just pointing out their opinion and you seem to all too quick to try and ‘argue’ that opinion with them.

Now I ask you Trevor, who “bashed DVD” in this thread? Does your interpretation of bash include anyone who has a different opinion than SD-DVD’s can “look HD”?

I couldn’t disagree more. I too have a significant DVD collection, that however doesn’t cloud my understanding that none of them “look HD” How does that equal “bashing SD DVD” ?

If you feel that DVD “looks HD” then kudos to you, I find it a bit odd however that you feel the need to squelch someone who thinks differently by tossing in terms like bash and fanboy.

My position is already fully explained, and not once did it include "looks HD".

I also totally disagree that “the primary use of the HD-DVD player will typically be for upscaling SD”. I can tell you point blank its up-scaling abilities played no part whatsoever in my decision to buy the player. If your mileage varies then congratulations, however all encompassing statements like “primary use of the HD-DVD player will typically be for upscaling SD material” are a bit nearsighted.”?

So you are saying that most people play more HD-DVD discs on their players than SD discs? If so and if true, then my statement would be wrong. If you are only saying that's the case for yourself, then my statement isn't invalidated in any way. What your text actually says has no bearing on it one way or another.

This would be likened to specifically buying a SACD player to listen to CD’s. Hmm, disagreeing that up-scaled DVD’s “look HD” is bashing? Ok… I haven’t seen anyone make any dispersions to DVD in this entire thread, those who disagree with you are just pointing out their opinion and you seem to all too quick to try and ‘argue’ that opinion with them.

Your interpretation makes no sense. I suggest you try reading my sentence again -- use standard dictionary definitions for all the words.

Presenting the opinions as done, doesn't make them less a "thread crap".

Now I ask you Trevor, who “bashed DVD” in this thread? Does your interpretation of bash include anyone who has a different opinion than SD-DVD’s can “look HD”?

"Bashing DVD" is a very possible, though not definite interpretation of the thread crapping. Constructive discussion is one thing, thread crapping is another.

-- Trevor

So you are saying that most people play more HD-DVD discs on their players than SD discs? If so and if true, then my statement would be wrong. If you are only saying that's the case for yourself (which is what your text says), then my statement isn't invalidated in any way.

No, you’re the one who said "the primary use of the HD-DVD player will typically be for upscaling SD”, which would seem to indicate you’re making assumptions as to how most people will use them. That is unless your standard dictionary has different definitions for the words primary and typically than mine.

Unlike you, I make no estimations to the percentage of people who will use the player for HD or SD. But I think your assertion that most people will use it as an up-scaler is a generalization..

You say “Your interpretation makes no sense” well if you can’t make a reasonable comparison between HD DVD and SD DVD versus that of SACD and CD then I can see why my examples ‘make no sense’.

I’ll clarify, HD DVD players play both HD DVD and SD DVD, SACD players play both SACD and CD. Get it now? I’m sure you do, now wouldn’t you agree that the likelihood of someone who buys a HD DVD player with the primary goal of watching SD DVD is about as unlikely as someone buying a SACD player with the primary goal of listening to CD’s?

I asked who was bashing DVD, I’d still love to hear your answer.

No, you’re the one who said "the primary use of the HD-DVD player will typically be for upscaling SD”, which would seem to indicate you’re making assumptions as to how most people will use them. That is unless your standard dictionary has different definitions for the words primary and typically than mine.

Unlike you, I make no estimations to the percentage of people who will use the player for HD or SD. But I think your assertion that most people will use it as an up-scaler is a generalization..

You say “Your interpretation makes no sense” well if you can’t make a reasonable comparison between HD DVD and SD DVD versus that of SACD and CD then I can see why my examples ‘make no sense’.

I’ll clarify, HD DVD players play both HD DVD and SD DVD, SACD players play both SACD and CD. Get it now? I’m sure you do, now wouldn’t you agree that the likelihood of someone who buys a HD DVD player with the primary goal of watching SD DVD is about as unlikely as someone buying a SACD player with the primary goal of listening to CD’s?

I asked who was bashing DVD, I’d still love to hear your answer.

From reading this board and knowing the public in general, I too, would have to say most of the discs watched on HD-DVD players will be SD. It's a numbers thing. Most people here have tons of DVDs and very few HD-DVDs. Also, they have sold their SD players which will leave them with only the HD player and it's average scaling to watch SD.

Sorry, folks. "None" is a perfectly good answer. "How many?" "None". Asked, answered. Any "tone" is in the eye (or ear) of the beholder, and not my problem.

I own a hair over 1,000 DVDs, and I will be holding onto them for quite a while yet, until they can be replaced by proper HD versions. However, I'm not gonna tell myself lies and try to convince myself upscaled DVD looks "close to HD". It really, really doesn't. DVD can look very good, but it's not "close to HD". Even 720p smokes DVD.

And I know I trot this link (http://www.cornbread.org/FOTRCompare/) out a lot (on the HTF, at least), but what the heck, here we go again. The Fellowship of the Ring, upconverted DVD (albeit not on the HD-A1) vs. native HD. "Close"? My ass.

King Kong and Batman Begins look pretty damn good on my HD-A1.

"Bashing DVD" is a very possible, though not definite interpretation of the thread crapping. Constructive discussion is one thing, thread crapping is another.

-- Trevor

You seem to indicate that the only way to participate in a thread is by agreeing with the general premise of the thread, by that very definition you’re guilty of it as well.

No, you’re the one who said "the primary use of the HD-DVD player will typically be for upscaling SD”, which would seem to indicate you’re making assumptions as to how most people will use them. That is unless your standard dictionary has different definitions for the words primary and typically than mine.

Unlike you, I make no estimations to the percentage of people who will use the player for HD or SD. But I think your assertion that most people will use it as an up-scaler is a generalization.

OF COURSE, it is a generalization -- but it is a generalization that SPECIFICALLY allows for the exceptions. This is just proper useage of the English language. If you have difficulties with that, that's your problem, not mine.

You say “Your interpretation makes no sense” well if you can’t make a reasonable comparison between HD DVD and SD DVD versus that of SACD and CD then I can see why my examples ‘make no sense’.

I’ll clarify, HD DVD players play both HD DVD and SD DVD, SACD players play both SACD and CD. Get it now? I’m sure you do, now wouldn’t you agree that the likelihood of someone who buys a HD DVD player with the primary goal of watching SD DVD is about as unlikely as someone buying a SACD player with the primary goal of listening to CD’s?

See above.

I asked who was bashing DVD, I’d still love to hear your answer.

Answered in previous response.

-- Trevor

You seem to indicate that the only way to participate in a thread is by agreeing with the general premise of the thread, by that very definition you’re guilty of it as well.

Not indicated at all, but argumentative contradiction does not lend anything of value and delivers purely negative connotations. Hence -- thread crap.

-- Trevor

Not indicated at all, but argumentative contradiction does not lend anything of value.

-- Trevor


So Trevor, direct question, can someone disagree with the premise of a thread and not be guilty of "thread crapping"?

Simple yes or no will suffice.

So Trevor, direct question, can someone disagree with the premise of a thread and not be guilty of "thread crapping"?

Simple yes or no will suffice.

Of course.

So Trevor, direct question, can someone disagree with the premise of a thread and not be guilty of "thread crapping"?

Simple yes or no will suffice.

However, I'd like to suggest that when a title is obviously pushing things a bit (as this one clearly does), it makes sense to take a look at the OP's actual post and try to get a sense of what they are really trying to say. (Maybe ask for clarification if need be.)

As I mentioned earlier -- it seems clear the OP's enthusiasm got a little away from him, but nonetheless, there is clear value in the concept of the thread. Dissing it out of hand is not appropriate in such a situation. (Not that that is unusual human behavior.)

-- Trevor

Fanboy, I like that it has a superhero ring to it. HD fanboy says kids its time to dump your DVDs and wait with great anticipation for them in their latest form - its almost like being laid on your wedding day again for the first time!

The thread should be: help I am addicted to HDVD but the lack of movies forces me to get a quick fix with DVDs what do you all recommend?

Fanboy, I like that it has a superhero ring to it. HD fanboy says kids its time to dump your DVDs and wait with great anticipation for them in their latest form - its almost like being laid on your wedding day again for the first time!

The thread should be: help I am addicted to HDVD but the lack of movies forces me to get a quick fix with DVDs what do you all recommend?

We probably all have different plans regarding SD movie replacement. I've upgraded titles more than once before (as, no doubt, have we all), and I'm not eager to do that again without VERY good reason. Of course, I also have S-VHS tapes and LD's in my collection, so I'm clearly not as dedicated to the ultimate video experience as some might be. :)

So, I'll be using my RCA for plenty of SD and I expect a very gradually growing selection of HD-DVD releases that interest me -- most likely new releases over catalog, but not necessarily. From my perspective, I simply can't afford to get too enamored of HD-DVD, there are just too many films I value.

There was a related thread not long ago discussing Superbit titles as an alternative to BD. Off the cuff, I would consider all those to be candidates for this thread (though sometimes complaints of excess EE come up). Yes, the title is a little problematic -- something along the lines of your idea or "What SD DVD titles look especially great upscaled on the A1" would probably have been more communicative -- but as they say, hindsight is 20/20.

-- Trevor

Movies that look near HD upconverted:

Revenge of the Sith
Kingdom of Heaven directors cut
Batman Begins

I will be trying more of my DVD's out tonight. I just got the player yesterday and I am very impressed.

Sorry, folks. "None" is a perfectly good answer. "How many?" "None". Asked, answered. Any "tone" is in the eye (or ear) of the beholder, and not my problem.

I own a hair over 1,000 DVDs, and I will be holding onto them for quite a while yet, until they can be replaced by proper HD versions. However, I'm not gonna tell myself lies and try to convince myself upscaled DVD looks "close to HD". It really, really doesn't. DVD can look very good, but it's not "close to HD". Even 720p smokes DVD.

And I know I trot this link (http://www.cornbread.org/FOTRCompare/) out a lot (on the HTF, at least), but what the heck, here we go again. The Fellowship of the Ring, upconverted DVD (albeit not on the HD-A1) vs. native HD. "Close"? My ass.
Okay, you win...no Toshiba for me until LOTR is out on HD. (So, then...shouldn't this thread be in the Blur-ray side since it disuades fence-sitters to buy HD-DVD now? :o )

Okay, you win...no Toshiba for me until LOTR is out on HD. (So, then...shouldn't this thread be in the Blur-ray side since it disuades fence-sitters to buy HD-DVD now? :o )

The EE version has better PQ than the standard version, and note this person is not even using the Toshiba to upscale -- and this thread is specific to the RCA/Toshiba HD-DVD player. I wouldn't take this input as the end-all-be-all -- it doesn't even belong in this thread.

-- Trevor

PS. The effectiveness of upscaling depends on the quality of the source DVD. That's why the OP is asking for individual title suggestions.

PPS. FWIW -- Here is another viewpoint I just stumbled onto in another thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8203881&&#post8203881

The EE version has better PQ than the standard version, and note this person is not even using the Toshiba to upscale -- and this thread is specific to the RCA/Toshiba HD-DVD player. I wouldn't take this input as the end-all-be-all -- it doesn't even belong in this thread.

-- Trevor

PS. The effectiveness of upscaling depends on the quality of the source DVD. That's why the OP is asking for individual title suggestions.

PPS. FWIW -- Here is another viewpoint I just stumbled onto in another thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8203881&&#post8203881
Good, informative post as always, Trevor. Thanks! :)

I for one read this post expecting to learn of SD dvds that look good upconverted, and NOT upconverted SD dvds that EQUAL HD-dvds. I dont know why people are bashing the original post. I think most people will use their HD-A1 to upconvert in the beginning, as there are very few quality HD-films available now.

I think people just need to lighten up and stop bashing the thread. And yes, "None" is an acceptable answer. But there is no need to rant. Period.

So Trevor, direct question, can someone disagree with the premise of a thread and not be guilty of "thread crapping"?



I'll answer for him. It CAN be done, but it seems like more and more on this forum someone has to be an a-hole about it when they do it. As soon as I clicked on this thread I knew there would be some obnoxious responses basically saying "DVD sucks". It's like practically every other thread on AVS these days. People can't just respectfully disagree about anything, they have to be rude and inconsiderate when they do it. Between this thread and the "Top Tier PQ" one I'm seriously about to just cancel my membership on this forum as it has become almost impossible to participate in a thread around here without people acting like 5 year old kids.

To be honest, the R1 version of "Fellowship" is NOT that great a transfer. Very filtered, soft with some EE. There are MUCH better transfers out there to use as an example.
Bjoern's Very thorough comarison shows this clearly.
http://www.videophile.info/Review/FOTR/FOTR_01.htm

I think the trick to getting a dvd to look good upscaled is to have a good transfer that is completely free of filtering, DNR and EE. While none will match an HDdvd (obviously) there will be some that will look VERY good upconverted.

To be honest, the R1 version of "Fellowship" is NOT that great a transfer. Very filtered, soft with some EE. There are MUCH better transfers out there to use as an example.
Bjoern's Very thorough comarison shows this clearly.
http://www.videophile.info/Review/FOTR/FOTR_01.htm

I think the trick to getting a dvd to look good upscaled is to have a good transfer that is completely free of filtering, DNR and EE. While none will match an HDdvd (obviously) there will be some that will look VERY good upconverted.
Hey! On my NTSC EE of "Fellowship," I CAN see Bilbo's toes, too!" :D

I just have the $100 discontinued Pioneer player. :eek:

Hey! On my NTSC EE of "Fellowship," I CAN see Bilbo's toes, too!" :D

I just have the $100 discontinued Pioneer player. :eek:

That version looks great on my Denon 2900 too :). Have yet to try it on my RCA/Toshiba.

-- Trevor

That version looks great on my Denon 2900 too :). Have yet to try it on my RCA/Toshiba.

-- Trevor
Try it, try it. :D

Seriously--I'd LOVE to know what it looks like.

My Pioneer got great reviews and I bought just it was becoming hard to get as it was being discontinued. Just curious...isn't the Denon pretty expensive?

"I Robot" looks very "HD like" i bet i could fool a few people with that one :D

I knew when I saw the title of this thread that it was going to elicit a lot of controversy. Without I hope being rude, here is the problem with the whole premise of the thread.

** You can scale 720x480 source material using an "upconverting" player to make it look nearly HD **

Aside from this thread, I have read statements like this about a bizillion times on this and other forums. This notion is a widely-shared fallacy. Yes, some SD DVDs are very well mastered, so when played with a good DVD player over a good display they can look very, very good. In that sense, some DVDs can look like HD. The point is, though, it is not the "upconverting" that does this. When DVDs look nearly HD it is because:

1. The DVD was very well-mastered in the first place.
2. The deinterlacing is of very high quality.
3. The DVD player has very good core video performance.
4. The display you are watching it on is large enough, of high enough quality, and well-calibrated enough that it can show off how good the DVD really is.

"Upconverting" plays very little, if any, role in this. It will matter only if your display has a really crappy scaler, and most don't anymore. As usual, it is the boring attention to engineering detail and not some magical "upconversion" (really little more than a marketing gimmick) that makes the difference.

480p component output from a really good SD DVD player is really all you need. For example, component 480p output from the Panasonic S97 with its DCDi deinterlacing offers about the best DVD performance I've seen. It looks better to me, by a small margin, than standard DVD playback on the Toshiba at any resolution.

The only instance in which I've seen HDMI output scaled to 1080i make a real difference is with HD DVDs on the Tosh. 1080i component looks good, but a little soft, and 480p/720p via HDMI looks like crap.

Gladiator looked quite good. Some scenes were good enough to pass for Comcast HD. This is on a 50inch plasma.

"almost" means near like 10% or so. 20% is way too much to be considered almost.
If DVD can be almost like HD DVD we all are crazy to spend so much money to buy 1080i/p display and Hi Def DVD players and so forth. Having said that there are people out there that cannot distinguish between upconvert and true HD. Also how close they look depends on your quality of display. smaller RPTV is tough and more subdued to see between a well mastered DVD and HD version but it can be seen.
On my Toshiba 53" a clean 480p DVD and superbids look somewhat close to HD but on my FP I can easily see the difference.

Some well mastered DVDs are:
Gladiator
All pixar rendered DVD's
Vertical limit

Try it, try it. :D

Seriously--I'd LOVE to know what it looks like.

My Pioneer got great reviews and I bought just it was becoming hard to get as it was being discontinued. Just curious...isn't the Denon pretty expensive?

Yes, it was certainly more so than most at 1K$ (some three odd years ago) -- but I got it used which helped :). I specifically bought it for CD, SACD, and DVD-A playback, but it gave me great video as well. It doesn't upscale beyond 480p, but the 480i upscaled externally does well for me.

I'm currently limited to a 36" 4:3 so my anamorphic images are limited to about 33" diagonal. I'm hoping to get my HDMI/projector interface working in another week or so for a size increase, more fun for viewing the fun stuff :).

-- Trevor

Episode III. That about does it for me.

I'm currently limited to a 36" 4:3 so my anamorphic images are limited to about 33" diagonal. I'm hoping to get my HDMI/projector interface working in another week or so for a size increase, more fun for viewing the fun stuff :).

-- Trevor
Hope you do...size DOES matter! ;)

Empire Strikes Back looked great to me.

And I've mentioned this in another thread, but The Arrested Development DVDs look great. They really look just how I remember them looking on the original FOX HD broadcasts.

I'm watching on a 52" display, by the way.

Oh, and I'm so glad this thread is filled with geniuses telling us that upconverted SD is not the same thing as HD. :rolleyes: Yes, we know.

IMO *none* of the upconverted (to 1080i) reference SD DVDs I've watched on my HD-A1 so far come anywhere near the resolution or color fidelity that top-drawer HD-DVD titles such as The Chronicles of Riddick, Serenity, or Aeon Flux exhibit. They certainly look great, but close to HD quality? No way.

IMO *none* of the upconverted (to 1080i) reference SD DVDs I've watched on my HD-A1 so far come anywhere near the resolution or color fidelity that top-drawer HD-DVD titles such as The Chronicles of Riddick, Serenity, or Aeon Flux exhibit. They certainly look great, but close to HD quality? No way.

If you take the trouble to read the OP's original post, you'll see he's thinking more in terms of approaching the bottom drawer, not the top drawer. If you take the trouble to look over the actual thread, you'll see people are just talking about titles that "look great" as you put it.

That's really all the thread is about -- what SD titles look really outstanding when upscaled on the HD-A1, nothing more.

-- Trevor

If you take the trouble to read the OP's original post, you'll see he's thinking more in terms of approaching the bottom drawer, not the top drawer.
I wasn't responding to the OP.

Watched final fantasy: the spirit within yesterday, looked amazing.

I've never seen any SD films look like HD on the discs I've tried on the A1. The detail isn't there if you look for it. The HD DVDs spoiled me.

Is the Toshiba region free (does it play PAL discs)?

I wasn't responding to the OP.

In other words, you saw the title and ignored the content. Why bother?

Paramount's Once Upon A Time in the West SE looks stellar on the A1.

Paramount really needs to publish this film on HD DVD!

Talk about a new level of reference...

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/5400/vlcsnap235974ze0.jpg
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/8572/vlcsnap239650bc9.jpg
http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/1415/vlcsnap237523ub2.jpg

Paramount's Once Upon A Time in the West SE looks stellar on the A1.

Paramount really needs to publish this film on HD DVD!

Talk about a new level on reference...

Hello EE! (on the first and 3rd shot)

Those shot look way to Oversharpened...

The DVD edition does have edge enhancement, though I'm betting Lowry's restoration does not.

Hello EE! (on the first and 3rd shot)

Those shot look way to Oversharpened...

That's not so bad, I've seen FAR worse on DVD. Check out "Enemy Of The State" sometime. :)

-- Trevor

PS. Beautiful photos, Damnation!

PS. Beautiful photos, Damnation!
Thanks! :)

They're from the French DVD taken with VLC, they were the first country to get the SE DVD set, understandable since the film was HUGE in that country. It actually played for years after its release. I imported the set the first week of it's release. :p

I hear the U.S. edition has more noticable EE. Though it would most likely be jaw-dropping on HD DVD. I can only wait and hope. :o

Thanks! :)

They're from the French DVD taken with VLC, they were the first country to get the SE DVD set, understandable since the film was HUGE in that country. It actually played for years after its release. I imported the set the first week of it's release. :p

I hear the U.S. edition has more noticable EE. Though it would most likely be jaw-dropping on HD DVD. I can only wait and hope. :o

It's too bad US mastering engineers seem to have such a love affair with artificial enhancement. Maybe they just can't stand the idea of anything looking like it's supposed to. Kind of like their own personal way of signing their signature.

Still, it fits in well with the music industry, they tend to crank out damaged goods. Perhaps it's just part of the American psyche -- got to leave your mark SOMEhow.

-- Trevor

PS. Sorry, every once in awhile the idiocy gets to me :).

In other words, you saw the title and ignored the content. Why bother?
If YOU'D bothered to read a few posts above mine ;) there would have been no need for your comment in the first place. This is a running discussion, not a bunch of people slavishly answering the OP's question.

If YOU'D bothered to read a few posts above mine ;) there would have been no need for your comment in the first place. This is a running discussion, not a bunch of people slavishly answering the OP's question.

Read every one -- you're just not the only one.

HD-A1 does a superb job of up-converting compared to my HTDV. I find Animated SD DVDs look "HD"ish.

Let me through a wrench in this discussion. Most HDTVs on the market today can't even display the full 1920x1080p from these HD DVD movies. For example my 65" RPCRT is 1080i native with a CRT lens' being limited to 1600 lines of horizontal resolution. But can you imagine the PQ of up-converted HD DVD movie on a "future" screen size that can show 3840x2160p!! This would be breath taking, truly getting into the IMAX World. :D

...Angelo

I have seen a lot of them since I bought the unit. The very best upconverted quality I have seen has been:

"The Island"

John

None.

Hope you do...size DOES matter! ;)

Well, finally got my HDMI->RGBHV transcoding working Tuesday night and had my very first opportunity to view my RCA through my projector (78" diagonal screen). The RCA was set for 1080i and the projector scales it down to, I think, 720p. After getting the gamma set correctly, the upscaled pictures for both "Twister" and "The Fast And The Furious" were absolutely wonderful -- never seen anything look anywhere near that good in my house before (and I've always been pleased with my projected image). Haven't tried HD-DVD on it yet, but will shortly.

-- Trevor :)

PS. For those that have mentioned EE problems with the RCA/Toshiba on SD, I definitely don't see it.

PPS. Also upgraded the projector cabling to permit HD signals, so that also contributes to the improved picture.

[QUOTE=TrevorS]Haven't tried HD-DVD on it yet, but will shortly.

-- Trevor :)

Oh, Trevor--you're such a tease! ;)

Watch some HD-DVD movies already! :D

My XA1 can do some "strange" things on upconverting standard DVD. Last night I threw in "Priscilla, Queen of the Desert". The MGM DVD says is was 2.35:1 Lettbox. The upconverted display filled maybe half of my display, with large letterbox on the top & bottom and sides. (57" CRT rear projection). The PQ was very clear and excellent quality, but, geez, it just seemed so strange to watch such a small screen. Some of my HD DVD's have 2.35:1, and I just get a letterbox on the top & bottom. Any explanation on why a 2.35:1 SD DVD upconverts to such a small display? :confused:

My XA1 can do some "strange" things on upconverting standard DVD. Last night I threw in "Priscilla, Queen of the Desert". The MGM DVD says is was 2.35:1 Lettbox. The upconverted display filled maybe half of my display, with large letterbox on the top & bottom and sides. (57" CRT rear projection). The PQ was very clear and excellent quality, but, geez, it just seemed so strange to watch such a small screen. Some of my HD DVD's have 2.35:1, and I just get a letterbox on the top & bottom. Any explanation on why a 2.35:1 SD DVD upconverts to such a small display? :confused:
Is the transfer anamorphic? Probably not, and that would explain why it was pillarboxed. I'm assuming you're using the HDMI output on the Toshiba.

Is the transfer anamorphic? Probably not, and that would explain why it was pillarboxed. I'm assuming you're using the HDMI output on the Toshiba.

No, it is not anamorphic, and yes using HDMI>DVI cable to my display's DVI input. Forgot to mention the display size was the same when switching between 480p, 720p and 1080i resolutions. I expected a pillarbox on the top & bottom, just surprised to see a large pillarbox on the sides as well.

No, it is not anamorphic, and yes using HDMI>DVI cable to my display's DVI input. Forgot to mention the display size was the same when switching between 480p, 720p and 1080i resolutions. I expected a pillarbox on the top & bottom, just surprised to see a large pillarbox on the sides as well.

Yes, it's a drag to play 4:3 letterbox via HDMI with these players. What they are doing is entirely correct, but VERY inconvenient. The player correctly frames them as 4:3 which cordons off the two sides, then the letterbox itself eliminates the top and bottom. The only solution is a display device that provides zoom, none of mine do.

I have the same problem displaying HDMI LTB on my Westinghouse in a second system, but since it stretches the 4:3 horizontal almost to the edges of the 16:9 screen, a single step vertical zoom on my LG 418 player solves the problem (also provides an interesting top and bottom trim when playing back true 4:3 :)).

My main rig solution is to watch 4:3 material via a different player, treating it similarly to watching LD or VHS tape.

-- Trevor

Any explanation on why a 2.35:1 SD DVD upconverts to such a small display? :confused:

Yeah, as others have said, this is the way it treats non-anamorphic material. It's no problem for me (since I can just go to Theaterwide #2 setting on my TV, which maintains the aspect ratio but zooms in to fill the screen)... but for people who don't have zoom settings on their sets, it sucks.

None
Excellent with balls of brass but true ! :D

Art

I found Boston Legal extremely good looking for a normal dvd.

Big mistake with the thread title. Check out "Little Miss Sunshine" as well as:

Lost: S1 and S2
Arrested Development: S1 (STUNNING and on-par, or maybe better than Fox-HD)

The Island

The Producers

Chicago

They all looked a lot better than some of the HD DVD movies I have purchased lately such as Babel and Swordfish

John

I would say cars,i swear i was watching an HD movie its that good

I would say cars,i swear i was watching an HD movie its that good
Ditto for me. Cars looks stunning upconverted on my A2.

There are differing opinions regarding using animations for comparison. I made those arguments in a recent thread which consisted of a PQ hierarchy for current HD DVD releases. While the list was an admirable undertaking, the top group had very few titles, but most of them were animations. The nature of animation eliminates most of the difficulties facing "real life" filming and their subsequent DVDs from the animations. From a practical standpoint most animations should look good either upconverted or in HD.

John

The best upconverted DVDs I've seen with the player so far are "The Island" and "Stick It."

I watched "Kinsey" yesterday and I could have sworn I was looking at an HD DVD.

I would say cars,i swear i was watching an HD movie its that good


I would like someone with a BR player to make a comparisson between CARS SD DVD in HD A1 and the blu Ray version.

Cars was good, but The Incredibles and Monsters Inc. are worlds better DVD transfers.

They are not HD quality, but more than adaquate to justify not wasting an additional $800 on a Blu Ray player and the Blu Ray versions when they release.

There are differing opinions regarding using animations for comparison. I made those arguments in a recent thread which consisted of a PQ hierarchy for current HD DVD releases. While the list was an admirable undertaking, the top group had very few titles, but most of them were animations. The nature of animation eliminates most of the difficulties facing "real life" filming and their subsequent DVDs from the animations. From a practical standpoint most animations should look good either upconverted or in HD.

John

Plus the way they are created lends itself to scaling well. They are created for the most part by computers and present no real issues to scalers to have to deal with like film grain or an infinite number of colors.

Anything by Pixar Studios (Toy Story 1&2, Incredibles, Bug Life). Also, when I saw the movie Crash I wondered "how could they possibly improve this picture." It looks/ sounds perfect.

Hmm, it may actually look better upconverted from DVD on the A1 than the actual Blu-Ray version if that truly is the case.

My main rig solution is to watch 4:3 material via a different player, treating it similarly to watching LD or VHS tape.

-- Trevor

I used to do that, but I found a different solution that I can live with. Still using the HDMI output, I drop the resolution on the A1 to 480p and use the letterbox option on my Infocus IN76 projector. That zooms it properly. The display has to do the upconverting, but at least I don't have to swap the disk over to my Panasonic XP30 which, for whatever reason, doesn't look quite as good as the A1 for 480p. And the analog outputs on the A1 give me better results than the optical audio output on the XP30. Mileage will vary depending on one's display. I wish they never would have made those "letterbox" versions. They are really 4:3 and not true "widescreen."

None....but then again, when I had my HD DVD player, a 10 ft wide screen will accentuate all the artifacts, EE, etc on SD DVD. The thought that simply mathmatically improving a SD signal via 'upconversion' (though it has 1/6 the resolution of the HD signal ) to be comparable to 1080P HD picture is inconceivable unless there is a problem with one's display. Upconversion has taken on this magical status here - its way overblown in terms of SD DVD pq improvement versus the typical upconverting ability of the average DVD player..

I rented the Grand Prix HD-DVD/SD flipper disc and I could barely tell a difference between each side and I'm using the 360 drive with a Sony 55 inch SXRD. Both sides look incredible and I'm thinking the reason for this is that the movie was restored.

None....but then again, when I had my HD DVD player, a 10 ft wide screen will accentuate all the artifacts, EE, etc on SD DVD. The thought that simply mathmatically improving a SD signal via 'upconversion' (though it has 1/6 the resolution of the HD signal ) to be comparable to 1080P HD picture is inconceivable unless there is a problem with one's display. Upconversion has taken on this magical status here - its way overblown in terms of SD DVD pq improvement versus the typical upconverting ability of the average DVD player..


It's only inconceivable if you have problems with your up converting player. Maybe its the size of your display but on any lcd or rear projection the newer movies and the restored movies look almost the same. I have to look long and hard while watching Grand Prix to see the differences between the SD and HD-DVD versions while watching on either my Westy lcd, Samsung 46 inch lcd or my 55 Sony SXRD. All the reviews of the Toshiba players mention the great up-conversion of regular material.

All the new Bond transfers look amazing.

It's only inconceivable if you have problems with your up converting player. Maybe its the size of your display but on any lcd or rear projection the newer movies and the restored movies look almost the same. I have to look long and hard while watching Grand Prix to see the differences between the SD and HD-DVD versions while watching on either my Westy lcd, Samsung 46 inch lcd or my 55 Sony SXRD. All the reviews of the Toshiba players mention the great up-conversion of regular material.

I have a 120" wide SXRD and I can tell you that whether the SD DVD is coming from a HD DVD, Blu Ray or SD player, upconversion is similar on all. Upconversion cannot create something out of nothing and there is ~84% less info on SD DVD compared to HD DVD or Blu Ray. If 480i DVD looks as good as 1080P on your set up, then there is a problem somewhere in the chain of your equipment..

I'll concede, 480i can look similar to 1080P if the display is very small or you are sitting too far away such that your visual acuity cannot make out the details at a far distance. But sitting in front of a screen at a SMPTE or THX recommended dstance (relative to screen size) will show all the warts of SD DVD compared to HD DVD - giving visual proof of 84% less resolution of SD DVD compared to HD DVD..

I just used my 360 add-on to upconvert for the first time last night. I watched the first three episodes of Arrested Development and they looked really good. Obviously no where close to HD-DVD quality, but definitely close to the HD movie channels like HBO and Starz.

Flushed Away looked remarkably good. But Nothing looks HD when upconverted.

SD= Watching a movie without your glasses
HD=Watching a movie with glasses on
Upconvert = Watching the movie while squinting .

I have a 120" wide SXRD and I can tell you that whether the SD DVD is coming from a HD DVD, Blu Ray or SD player, upconversion is similar on all. Upconversion cannot create something out of nothing and there is ~84% less info on SD DVD compared to HD DVD or Blu Ray. If 480i DVD looks as good as 1080P on your set up, then there is a problem somewhere in the chain of your equipment..

I'll concede, 480i can look similar to 1080P if the display is very small or you are sitting too far away such that your visual acuity cannot make out the details at a far distance. But sitting in front of a screen at a SMPTE or THX recommended dstance (relative to screen size) will show all the warts of SD DVD compared to HD DVD - giving visual proof of 84% less resolution of SD DVD compared to HD DVD..


It's either a problem with your up converting player or the size of your display. However I've read several reviews for the Toshiba player from mags like Sound and Vision who have reviewed the player on a large screen and they have also stated the amazing up conversion of the Toshiba player. Many of the reviews point out that even if HD-DVD doesn't take off you will still be left with the best up converting player out. I know for a fact that on any lcd tv or rear projection up to 60 inch you can get a image that is very close to HD when using a good up-converting player good source material.

There is no detail on an SD disc when compared to HD, even upconverted SD. Anyone casually looking might not notice a difference but when you've been watching HD for almost 6 years, it's very obvious when an SD DVD is upconverted. It's always lacking detail. HD has the detail..

I know for a fact that on any lcd tv or rear projection up to 60 inch you can get a image that is very close to HD when using a good up-converting player good source material.


Your statements taken at face value suggest HD DVD on a TV less than 60" is barely better than regular DVD......I think you'll find many here who think you have set up issues (or need glasses). :confused:

Blah, I'd still rather watch a classic film on some grotty ol' Laserdisc from a yard sale than some heap of modern Hollywood garbage in 2000p with 13.9 DTS Omega Ultra Audio...even with free popcorn... :p

It's only inconceivable if you have problems with your up converting player. Maybe its the size of your display but on any lcd or rear projection the newer movies and the restored movies look almost the same. I have to look long and hard while watching Grand Prix to see the differences between the SD and HD-DVD versions while watching on either my Westy lcd, Samsung 46 inch lcd or my 55 Sony SXRD. All the reviews of the Toshiba players mention the great up-conversion of regular material.
Warning**Large File sizes** SD/Blu-ray/HD-DVD comparison screenshots
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=811102

Warning**Large File sizes** SD/Blu-ray/HD-DVD comparison screenshots
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=811102

Well, if lilstinky can't see that, he's got serious system problems.

Well, if lilstinky can't see that, he's got serious system problems.
Probably visual :D

Your statements taken at face value suggest HD DVD on a TV less than 60" is barely better than regular DVD......I think you'll find many here who think you have set up issues (or need glasses). :confused:

I said when you have a good source(Gran Prix which was just remastered like the Bond series), a good up-converting player(like the Toshiba) and a nice tv that also up converts signals to 1080p then you will not see a huge difference. Sure you can see the details are a little blurry in long shots and the color saturation is not as good but its not the huge difference you make it out to be. I just got rid of my projector so I can't really say on large displays how big the difference is but I did read the review in Sound & Vision and they did their Toshiba HD-DVD review using a front projector plus several other displays and they were ranting and raving about the up conversion of the player and even stated that if HD-DVD went away the quality of up conversion was worth the price alone(I'm not saying I agree with $500 just for up conversion but that is what they said). I've seen many regular dvds that look terrible even with up conversion but all these recent(the last year) remastered dvds look very nice when up converted(not HD-DVD or Blu-Ray nice but still very nice). I think many of the people in this thread think you guys are confused or just have display problems.

Well, if lilstinky can't see that, he's got serious system problems.


Oh I can see it and with his display there is a huge difference but I would have to say, Whats wrong with his display? My display is not that blurry with regular up converted material at least not modern movies like the Harry Potter series. Mine is not as good as the HD material but its not any where close to be the blurry mess in those shots. Like I said, the difference is not that huge when watching a good source material and on a good display thats set up properly. I would rather watch Blu-Ray or HD-DVD but its not going to kill me to watch regular stuff with the quality I'm getting with my up conversion(and mine is not even close to looking as bad as those other images).

Blah, I'd still rather watch a classic film on some grotty ol' Laserdisc from a yard sale than some heap of modern Hollywood garbage in 2000p with 13.9 DTS Omega Ultra Audio...even with free popcorn... :p


Don't get me wrong! You should be getting with the program and buying a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player or both and start enjoying those classics in HD. Mutiny on the Bounty looks incredible on HD-DVD. I love high resolution and I always want the best picture possible and while I said Grand Prix approaches the quality of the HD-DVD it still looks better in pure HD. If the old stuff makes you happy then good for you because buying this new crap all the time takes a hit on the old bank account.

There is no detail on an SD disc when compared to HD, even upconverted SD. Anyone casually looking might not notice a difference but when you've been watching HD for almost 6 years, it's very obvious when an SD DVD is upconverted. It's always lacking detail. HD has the detail..


Have you seen the new remastered Bond movies or Gran Prix? I agree the details are not as good in the long shots but they still look amazing on a good up converting player and a good display.

SD DVD's are an abomination when viewed at any decent screen size. They are dead to me. Lipstick on a pig is still an ugly swine. Imaginary pixels created by upconverting is lipstick on a pig. SD is fine for Joe 6 while he chugs ripple and roams his movable home.

SD DVD's are an abomination when viewed at any decent screen size. They are dead to me. Lipstick on a pig is still an ugly swine. Imaginary pixels created by upconverting is lipstick on a pig. SD is fine for Joe 6 while he chugs ripple and roams his movable home.

I think you've had a few to many swigs of that ripple already.

SD DVD's are an abomination when viewed at any decent screen size. They are dead to me. Lipstick on a pig is still an ugly swine. Imaginary pixels created by upconverting is lipstick on a pig. SD is fine for Joe 6 while he chugs ripple and roams his movable home.


this to me is very offensive...the way you mean it, you're basically saying that everyone sticking to SD is a J6P. I've seen HD showings already, and while it was quite good (of course, the details were there and everyting), I don't feel the urge to go out and buy it, I'm happy with what I have at the moment. I know what great PQ can be and stuff, but I watch movies because I simply like it! My 42'' screen is doing a perfect job at showing my One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest at the moment. Just try not be that offensive next time, please.

this to me is very offensive...the way you mean it, you're basically saying that everyone sticking to SD is a J6P. I've seen HD showings already, and while it was quite good (of course, the details were there and everyting), I don't feel the urge to go out and buy it, I'm happy with what I have at the moment. I know what great PQ can be and stuff, but I watch movies because I simply like it! My 42'' screen is doing a perfect job at showing my One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest at the moment. Just try not be that offensive next time, please.

Don't worry about these guys overblowing things. I have both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD and guess what I'm about to watch? The 1951 version of Captain Horatio Hornblower in 1.37:1 ratio. I have this funny feeling it will look great on my setup! Especially since it will probably be years before its released in one of the HD formats.

I just got finished with the DVE DVD(Digital Video Essentials). It looked HD to me! One of the best DVD transfers I've ever seen. I'm really looking forward to the HD-DVD version. Should be great, once it gets released. The DVD version was well thought out, and I'm sure the HD vesrions wil be to. Maybe the reason for the delays?
Edit: I'm watching it on a XA1>HDMI>720p

Casino Royale looked really damn good. I don't own a Blu-ray player, but I was quite satisfied with the SD transfer.

This issue is almost as divisive as the Blu-Ray/HDDVD debate. Don't mean to offend anyone ...(I don't think the double wide's have internet hookups do they?)

SD NTSC is in its death throes. Only Joe 6 and his cousin, living in a blissful state of matrimony, will be watching SD in the future. Say bye to the blurry (N)ever (T)he (S)ame
(C)olor world.

Joe and his lovely bride/blood relative will be 480i ing it till the second comming.

I think you've had a few to many swigs of that ripple already.


When I was in graduate school my preference was "NightTrain Express" a not so fine pear wine :eek:

This issue is almost as divisive as the Blu-Ray/HDDVD debate. Don't mean to offend anyone ...(I don't think the double wide's have internet hookups do they?)

SD NTSC is in its death throes. Only Joe 6 and his cousin, living in a blissful state of matrimony, will be watching SD in the future. Say bye to the blurry (N)ever (T)he (S)ame
(C)olor world.

Joe and his lovely bride/blood relative will be 480i ing it till the second comming.


I just don't see this happening with so many people still not owning HD sets.

When I was in graduate school my preference was "NightTrain Express" a not so fine pear wine :eek:


When I first wake up I tend to go out front of my doublewide to stretch my legs and I usually hit the Thunderbird or Wild Irish Rose a few times before heading out. Seems to take the edge off so that I don't pass out watching my 250 pound neighbor lady bending over to pick up her Penny Saver newspaper/classifieds.

When I first wake up I tend to go out front of my doublewide to stretch my legs and I usually hit the Thunderbird or Wild Irish Rose a few times before heading out. Seems to take the edge off so that I don't pass out watching my 250 pound neighbor lady bending over to pick up her Penny Saver newspaper/classifieds.

The homes in my neighborhood carry "weight" covenants that prevent obese people from buying them. We don't want "double wide" homes or people in the area.

The homes in my neighborhood carry "weight" covenants that prevent obese people from buying them. We don't want "double wide" homes or people in the area.

Thank god they allow double wides in my neighborhood or I'd be sitting two feet away instead of four foot away from my 55 inch Sony SXRD. :rolleyes:

What is all this 'double wide' double talk?

I am sure in this hobby, most are overweight as HT is a form of couch potato but I have never heard of discrimination against obese folks in a subdivision development?? (perhaps thats why I would never live in a subdivision - and all the beige and taupe houses):D

Have you seen the new remastered Bond movies or Gran Prix? I agree the details are not as good in the long shots but they still look amazing on a good up converting player and a good display. I haven't seen those specific discs, but I also don't watch SD DVDs anymore. I do use a VP50 which does a great job upconverting and I also have my display professionally calibrated every year.
IN 2002 when I first started viewing upconverted material from a Holo3DgRaph card I thought it looked good at the time. I had only started watching HD in 2001 but over time as I watched more and more HD, and now that HD DVD/BD is out, upconverted DVDs just don't cut it anymore for me.

I just wanted to add something to this discussion. I just borrowed my parents Panny S52S up converting dvd player and hooked it up via HDMI to my SXRD and made sure it was set to output at 1080i and it looks like total crap compared to the Xbox 360 and the Oppo DV-981HD up conversion. I get a very blurry picture using it compared to my 360 and Oppo picture which look much better. I'm getting a picture that looks like those posted by that guy the other day(the blurry mess ones). I'm sure the Toshiba HD-DVD players match or beat the 360 and at least equal the Oppo player when up converting.

I haven't seen those specific discs, but I also don't watch SD DVDs anymore. I do use a VP50 which does a great job upconverting and I also have my display professionally calibrated every year.
IN 2002 when I first started viewing upconverted material from a Holo3DgRaph card I thought it looked good at the time. I had only started watching HD in 2001 but over time as I watched more and more HD, and now that HD DVD/BD is out, upconverted DVDs just don't cut it anymore for me.


I couldn't agree more. If possible I watch the Blu or HD version. The problem is that most content is not out on either of those formats yet so I want the best picture possible for those times. I just watched Captain Horatio Hornblower(the one with Gregory Peck) the other night and it will be years before that will see the light of day in either HD format but it still looked great on my setup when up converted.

Id like to compile a list for some SD dvd collectors that may want to watch a dvd in their collection to see how excellent they look upconverted. Actually bordering HD DVD quality and most of the time may actually pass for a poor transfer HD disc :)

I'll start off with the first two titles. I highly recommend those with these films in SD give it a go in your hd a1 and post your thoughts about it.

1. Find me Guilty
2. The Ring 2
Anyone helping to compile a list for the person who started this thread?

the prestige looks pretty damn good upconverted on my hd-a2

Stranger Than Fiction (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0420223/) Looked awsome on my XA1

serenity
eragon
pearl harbor
master and commander
all looked really good sitting 9 feet away from my sony 40 inches ..course i'm near blind in both eyes and i refuse to were glasses

That might be why it looks HD. Serenity, Pearl Harbor, and M&C SD discs don't come close to the HD version. So much more detail when viewing with a 1080P display. If your using a 720P display then that would explain it. Big difference between a 1080P display and a 720P display when viewing 1080i/p HD content.

Well i always thought the transfers on the Ultimate Matrix Collection looked great upconverted on my HD-A1. Now with the actual HD-DVD releases coming it should be interesting to see how wrong i was.

Well i always thought the transfers on the Ultimate Matrix Collection looked great upconverted on my HD-A1. Now with the actual HD-DVD releases coming it should be interesting to see how wrong i was.
They have offically announced a release date!?! When is it?!

I have a hd-a2, LOTR and Indiana Jones Trilogy lock wonderful!!!!!!!!
Regards

They have offically announced a release date!?! When is it?!

May 22nd

This is a complete myth. Upconversion is totally overrated. No SD's can compare to HD.

I'd say Crank nearly looked HD when watching it the other day on my A1. The transfer was outstanding.

I'd say Crank nearly looked HD when watching it the other day on my A1. The transfer was outstanding.
Take a look at the BD and then let's hear what you have to say. No comparison. The BD of Crank blows away the SD upconvert.

Se7en, any film in the Blade series - Blade 2 looks amazing

Can someone help me out. Can you force the resolution down on an HD-DVD player? The reason I'm asking is because I'd like to know if you play a movie at either 480p, 720p, 1080i or 1080p will you notice the difference? Image Captures would be good if possible. Reading through this thread I took note of the movies people elected to reply to the OP's question. Most of these movies all look very good on a PS3. Of course you guys know that the PS3 is 480p for all SD movies. I've seen images on different threads with most looking like what I have seen with the non upconverting PS3. Personally I find it hard to watch some SD movies that are not listed here by folks. I'm glad I can watch my SD movies like my criterion collection on the new HD players but I cannot say that SD can really be compared to HD visually. I go back to simple math. All SD content is max 480P while the HD content has some 720p, 1080i but most 1080P max. That being said allot of folks are awaiting the FW update that will allow upconversion beyond 480P on PS3's however am I thinking that I will change my opinion in regards to the math and what I see??? I don't think so. I will replace all of my SD material in time with HD content except for Criterion I'm getting buried with those....

I guess I may be on the side of the few, but I have never been wowed by any upconversion offered by DVD and now the two new HD format players. I have seen some high dollar stuff that definitely looked good but no way is that viable for mass adoption...

Thanks in Advance for your replies...

yes you can select 480p for the A1 and A2 - if you're viewing on an HD set, your display will re-scale the picture. I've tested some films on 480p on my 1080p 46in Bravia and they look ALOT better than the majority of SD-DVDs - even better than "reference" SD titles

Take a look at the BD and then let's hear what you have to say. No comparison. The BD of Crank blows away the SD upconvert.

I have both and have compared. I think the BD is better but I wouldn't say it blows away the SD version up converted on my 360 or the Oppo. It does blow it away up converted on the Panny S52. I think some of these up converting players are pretty poor with up conversion. The larger the set the bigger the difference. I compared on a 46 inch Samsung lcd and the difference wasn't as much as on my 55 inch SXRD.

yes you can select 480p for the A1 and A2 - if you're viewing on an HD set, your display will re-scale the picture. I've tested some films on 480p on my 1080p 46in Bravia and they look ALOT better than the majority of SD-DVDs - even better than "reference" SD titles

I'll assume you mean HD content if not sorry I did not understand...

So if you move through 480p-1080p with an SD-DVD do you notice the difference?

I know that downconverting an HD film to 480P will definately be noticeable on an HD set.

I may take some time out tomorrow and go to my local TV guys and do some testing. They have both formats hooked up to some nice sets so I'm really curious now..

Thanks

The Passion
Crank
BLade 1 and 2
The new King Kong
Blood the Last Vampire
The King of Kings
Hidden Dragon Crouching Tiger SB
Riddick
Pitch Black
The Omega Man
Wolfs Creek


XA2 On a 100" screen

It's not a film, but the Original BattleStar Galactica DVD set looks VERY good on the A1 upconverting to a panasonic 50" plasma.

It was much sharper than I thought it would be.