well, i began by posting up a thread in the speakers section seeking opinions on some jbl rm10 studio bookshelfs. here they are, http://www.jbl.com/home/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=RM10&Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA&cat=&ser=MON . i guess they aren't very well known or whatever as i got no responses thus far, no worries.

i like this style of speaker. it's something large that i can ceiling mount and doesnt take up floor space like a floorstander w/ 10" would. after trying to browse ebay for some appropriate surrounds that i thought might mate well with these i didn't really see much. i thought about getting 5 of the rm10's, but that just seems like a bit of overkill for the surrounds and i would really rather have a smaller cabinet in the rear, maybe containing a 8" or so.

anyhow, i began to wonder if i could merely build something like these for the same/less money that i could outright buy them for which is $126/each. plus, this way i could timbre match all the speakers rather than mixing matching the LCR and surrounds and even possibly use better drivers.

this would be my first build of any type of main speakers. i've built a couple subs and am in the process of doing so now. but from what i gather building subs and mains/surrounds are two different ballgames. i would probably just stick with the 2-way design and maybe the same basic box shape as the jbls, just depends on what kind of info/ideas i get from you guys.

this is just a thought as i am trying to weigh out my options to do as we all do, obtain the best sound for our budget.

thanks guys

The budget is the tough part, IMO. Unless you just forget about all the nickel-dimeing that happens during and after the build...like I do. ;) A two-way main is a tough build; the selection of the drivers is critical and very likely expensive. See if you can budget $40 for a 6.5 midbass driver, and $30 for a tweeter. The crossover should likely fall in the range of $30 - $50, and the cabinet is what you make of it.

A two-way design is tough because the drivers have to handle extended freq ranges. This puts more emphasis on the quality and complexity of the crossover network. You should also have a subwoofer to use with a build like this, and the mains have to blend well with it.

Unless you have a keen interest in building speakers in general, and also want to surpass the quality of those $126 speakers you mentioned, just buy the store models. Your DIY speakers should reflect not only your passion for the project, but should also be a part of your personality.

Reconsider also your desire to ceiling-mount your mains. Instead, look at building or buying stands for these. The mains I'm using for both movies and music can be seen on page 4 of the gallery; I built them extra tall so that the mids/highs are at ear level and closer to the center channel height. I used 3-way drivers so that each have an easy go at it in their respective freq ranges, and my crossover design was inherently easy because of these factors. The largest of this 3-way design is only a 6.5 driver, so the subwoofer is essential with both movie and music sources.

I recommend these: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=13154

Derek is a member here as well. He built a "budget" pair of Modula MTs (http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=21000) for at or just below $250, I believe.

They would be great studio-monitor style speakers. Accurate, transparent, neutral...you know the drill.

thanks guys. i know that speakers set at ear level and all would be optimal. but, despite my not minding large speakers and even liking floorstanders, i'm pretty set on having wall/ceiling mounted ones in order to keep my floorspace and also, i sometimes let my husky indoors and don't want her knocking any thing over or chewing on/damaging them.

(edit) - the modula's look pretty nice, but how would they stack up against the jbls? think the jbl's are worth what they are asking and your opinion on whether or not they would sound good? i've owned klipsch klf-10's and some older infinity studio monitors (15" version), would i be looking at sound similar to either of those, cause i liked them both well.

thanks again

The Exodus LCR kits will have the high-output, can handle 800+ watts per channel with no compression, 3-way design to reach down in low 20Hz, closer to JBL monitor speakers.

thanks guys. i know that speakers set at ear level and all would be optimal. but, despite my not minding large speakers and even liking floorstanders, i'm pretty set on having wall/ceiling mounted ones in order to keep my floorspace and also, i sometimes let my husky indoors and don't want her knocking any thing over or chewing on/damaging them.

(edit) - the modula's look pretty nice, but how would they stack up against the jbls? think the jbl's are worth what they are asking and your opinion on whether or not they would sound good? i've owned klipsch klf-10's and some older infinity studio monitors (15" version), would i be looking at sound similar to either of those, cause i liked them both well.

thanks again

I think the Modulas would (most likely) have a more accurate, clean, neutral, distortion free sound.

The sound would be, most likely, better than those two speakers (but that depends on what kind of sound you like).

You could put the MTs on the wall, sure. You could just switch the design up a bit, and front-port them.

The Exodus LCR kits will have the high-output, can handle 800+ watts per channel with no compression, 3-way design to reach down in low 20Hz, closer to JBL monitor speakers.
nice speakers, but for the price of one i could have 3 of the jbls.

ok, considering the tower speaker idea. i suppose i'll just drop kick my dog if she even looks at them wrong. :)

anyhow, i thought about a slim tower design (or even front firing so that the LCR would look the same) utilizing a 10" eclipse sw6103.4 driver, which can be had off ebay for $55 shipped/ea. the eclipse would match my sub i'm building perfectly and i think it would be sufficient. i'm thinking a 3 way design using dayton 5.25" aluminum drivers for mid's (not sure yet as to how many in each tower) and a eminece apt-150 horn tweeter (i like klipsch speakers). now, i've never built full range speakers and this selection of drivers may quickly reveal that. i'm just guessing.

i want something pleasing to the eye and would consider your recommendations. it doesn't have to even utilize a 10" driver, i just saw the eclipse's on ebay. i like the looks of the towers that have drivers from head to toe, so intemidating looking.

i'm looking to give a go at a LCR setup right now, i have some temp surrounds i can use until i build some better ones.

so, if you don't mind, shoot me your ideas. budget wise, i'd say $500 for the components, don't bother considering the mdf, paint, screws, those sort of things. this would be something that i progressively built as time allowed.

thanks fellas

$500 for the components...is that for a pair of speakers, or the center too?

I would not recommend building a speaker, especially a 3-way, without any speaker designing experience. Use a respected design.

There is no need to "match" your speaker woofers to your subwoofer.

Check out HTGuide (http://www.htguide.com/forum/forumdisplay.php4?f=39).

You could build the NataliePs in a fairly slim tower. The 3-way towers are in the $500 range for components/parts.

i guess they aren't very well known or whatever as i got no responses thus far, no worries.Response on the way...


Dual 3"-cone tweeters Umm... comb-filtering anyone?

They're using a stage monitor for live performances as a home speaker? I would have to say, stay away from these. Note they call them the "ROCK MONITOR SERIES."

Moniters are designed to focus sound on individual performers so they can hear themselves in a large venue. They are in no way meant for accurate stereo sound reproduction. It also looks like they have the tweeters angled away from one another. These will not work as mains.

If you just want sound to fill a room, they will do fine. They would work great as the surrounds in a 5.1 setup. As stereo mains they fall flat on there face. They will have zero presence and imaging.

Your new sub deserves better. ;)

nah, was hoping to go for LCR out of the $500, of coarse that's give or take some. heck my sub started out as a ~$300 idea and i'll end up ~$600 into it. as to the matching, i didnt mean tonally or anything like that, simply athstectically (how in the hates do you spell that word?)

soho, i saw the 3" tweeters and wondered bout that. recently read an article bout the crappiness of bose. in the article they told what size drivers are idea for highs/mids/lows. i didn't recall 3" being in that range for highs and if it was it was to the utter extreme. but, i figured jbl knew more than i, so i was willing to consider them.

i had no intention of just building a box and slapping some speakers in there. thats why i was looking to find out if you guys had any box designs/driver recommendations in mind. i've seen the natalie p's and they dont tickle my fancy much. any other ideas? i know there is a certain amount of science and forthought that goes into a design, but at the same time it can also be overcomplicated (in my opinion). i mean, i'm not rocketing a man to the moon, just building some speakers.

for instance, i just like the looks of the polk (can't think of model number) speakers that have four 6.5" drivers on the front and a tweeter squeezed in there somewhere. something similar to that would be great and i cant see how it would cost a fortune when looking at PE i see what appear to be decent quality drivers for pretty cheap. i.e. - http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-305 <------ 10 or 12 of those (~$200) three x-overs ($120), three tweeters(~60-$100, maybe more, just depends), cabinet, paint, wire, binding post and it seems like i should be pretty close to a functional speaker. perhaps i'm missing something. i can't imagine polk using drivers that are much, if any better than those daytons. just seems like i should be able to build three towers that would yield polk or klipsch, or whatever quality for somewhere in the neighborhood of $500. i realize that a box design can make or break the drivers, which is where you guys would come into play. i wouldn't be looking for anything fancy, just your typical square enclosure.

anyhow, thanks for the responses.

http://www.eldamar.net/audio/rs150mtm/

What about those? Should run you about $450-500 for LCR. Or you could build 3 Modula MTs for LCR as well.

Yeah, those RS150s would be a good idea as well. I had almost forgotten about them.

Edit: What you have to understand, is that xover design is very important...and the good DIY designs don't skimp on the crossover. Why do you like the idea of "four 6.5" drivers and a tweeter"? Do you want good speakers or not?

Why don't you like the NataliePs? Have something against MTMs?

Things might seem "overcomplicated" sometimes, because building good speakers is complicated, if you have no experience designing a proper speaker. You have to ask yourself: "What do I want out of my speakers?"

You shouldn't be limiting yourself to any particular design unless you have a good reason to, IMO.

noremacyug, just answering your other thread, here. Building great LCRs for around $500 total is going to be very hard. L and R sure, but a Center too is pushing it. At this price range I would be looking at the internet dealer speakers. At this price range they are very competitive with DIY. Unless you just want the challenge.

At this price range they are very competitive with DIY. Unless you just want the challenge.

Not really.

Not really. Why do you say this? When including drivers, wood, quality crossover parts, and the other odds and ends. My estimate is around $300 per speaker (at least) for a quality MTM. Which puts this in the $900-1000 range. At the $500 range for three speakers we are talking about PE DIY type designs, the internet dealers will beat or at least equal DIY at this price range. (the $500 and lower range that is.)

Why do you say this? When including drivers, wood, quality crossover parts, and the other odds and ends. My estimate is around $300 per speaker for a quality MTM. Which puts this in the $900-1000 range. At the $500 range for three speakers we are talking about PE DIY type designs, the internet dealers will beat or at least equal DIY at this price range.

What do you consider quality crossover components? In my Modula MTs I used metallized polypropylene capacitors and air core / steel laminate core inductors (not the same as iron core). And it cost about $250 total.

Why do you say this? When including drivers, wood, quality crossover parts, and the other odds and ends. My estimate is around $300 per speaker (at least) for a quality MTM. Which puts this in the $900-1000 range. At the $500 range for three speakers we are talking about PE DIY type designs, the internet dealers will beat or at least equal DIY at this price range.

Well you are just using an incorrect budget. Derek built his Modula MTs for less than $250, total, including wood, crossover parts, and odds/ends.

Exocer built his Natalie Ps for ~$500/pair (it might have been a bit less, or a bit more) including everything.

Both of those designs are far better than whatever "PE DIY type designs" that you are talking about.

And no, they won't. K (Ryan) liked Chris' RS150 MTMs more than his Ascend 340s. The RS150s can be built for less than the 340s, IIRC.

What do you consider quality crossover components? In my Modula MTs I used metallized polypropylene capacitors and air core / steel laminate core inductors (not the same as iron core). And it cost about $250 total.

I don't understand the "quality" crossover components bit. The modulas probably have close to 2x the crossover components that most <$500 2-way bookshelves have.

Well you are just using an incorrect budget. Derek built his Modula MTs for less than $250, total, including wood, crossover parts, and odds/ends.

Exocer built his Natalie Ps for ~$500/pair (it might have been a bit less, or a bit more) including everything.

Both of those designs are far better than whatever "PE DIY type designs" that you are talking about.

And no, they won't. K (Ryan) liked Chris' RS150 MTMs more than his Ascend 340s. The RS150s can be built for less than the 340s, IIRC.

Yep the Ascend 340s cost $594 shipped, while the RS150 MTMs are around $300 before wood and finish.

What do you consider quality crossover components? Polypropylene film and tin foil caps for the series caps in the tweeter circuit, metallized polypropylene caps for everything else. 14g air core inductors only. Same as everyone else.

In my Modula MTs I said MTM. The OP is building a killer sub, he needs the extra headroom an MTM or better can provide.

Well you are just using an incorrect budget No, not really.

Exocer built his Natalie Ps for ~$500/pair (it might have been a bit less, or a bit more) including everything. Pair yes, three no.

Yep the Ascend 340s cost $594 shipped Are they the only internet direct speakers?

What is the problem here?

Ok, show me some ID MTMs that could match the CJD RS150 MTMs or Natalie Ps, for the money.

And sure, using quality crossover components is nice, but when these DIY designs already have a better crossover designs to begin with, that have more components, using "high quality" components is less of an issue (at least for the budget minded folk).

And yes, your budget is incorrect, because it assumes (for no reason) that a quality DIY MTM costs $300/each. Hell, Chasw98 built these for less than $700/pr, including everything.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8129604&&#post8129604

I just looked it up, and Exocer spent only $460 total, for his pair of Natalie Ps. One could easily build 3 of those for under $700. I don't know of any ID MTM that would match those 3 for $700.

noremacyug, I wish you well. Hope you find something to satisfy you.

As for everyone else I am done with this topic. I'm sorry you think you are the only ones to have ever built a pair of NatPs or ModMTs, or that you know everyone who has.

Skimping on the quality parts Jon advises is like ordering a Mustang with a six cylinder. As far as I'm concerned. What's the point?

I'm out.

What the hell...come on man. If you can't defend your claims, your opinion is invalid.

Exocer didn't skimp out on his Natalie P parts, and Chas didn't skimp out on his 3-ways either. Derek used some buyout caps and what not, but to compare using some cheaper crossover parts to a V8 Mustang vs a V6 Mustange is friggin' ludicrous, and you know it.

What a joke. At least throw me a bone here...give me some examples of ID products that are competitive for the price or less. Afterall, that is the claim you made earlier:

Building great LCRs for around $500 total is going to be very hard. L and R sure, but a Center too is pushing it. At this price range I would be looking at the internet dealer speakers. At this price range they are very competitive with DIY. Unless you just want the challenge.

Well In my case I could've easily pulled the natalie P's off with $400 a pair. I went with more expensive plywood, mills resistors (which are way more expensive than dayton resisters sometimes x3 the price), and solen capacitors. Wood came in at $60, the same amount of MDF would've been $24 at HD, and the crossovers would've been anywhere from $10-15 cheaper had I gone with the dayton components (not that they're poor quality, i just didn't want to regret getting the cheaper parts later ;)).

Nice. I didn't know you used even higher quality components, and still came out at $460 total.

for the sake of this post I re-did the BOM with the cheapest possible components for two speakers.

004-20 Yes DAYTON DNR-20 20 OHM 10W NON-INDUCTIVE .. $1.25 $2.50
004-6 Yes DAYTON DNR-6.0 6 OHM 10W NON-INDUCTIVE .. $1.25 $2.50
027-402 Yes DAYTON DMPC-0.22 .22uF-250V POLYPROPYLE .. $0.78 $1.56
027-410 Yes DAYTON DMPC-1.0 1.0uF-250V POLYPROPYLEN .. $1.15 $2.30
027-414 Yes DAYTON DMPC-2.0 2.0uF-250V POLYPROPYLEN .. $1.52 $3.04
027-418 Yes DAYTON DMPC-3.0 3.0uF-250V POLYPROPYLEN .. $1.67 $3.34
027-428 Yes DAYTON DMPC-10 10uF-250V POLYPROPYLENE .. $3.15 $6.30
027-430 Yes DAYTON DMPC-12 12uF-250V POLYPROPYLENE .. $3.55 $7.10
027-432 Yes DAYTON DMPC-15 15uF-250V POLYPROPYLENE .. $4.10 $16.40
027-438 Yes DAYTON DMPC-25 25uF-250V POLYPROPYLENE .. $5.90 $11.80
004-.51 Yes DAYTON DNR-0.51 .51 OHM 10W NON-INDUCTI .. $1.25 $2.50
255-034 Yes JANTZEN .45mH 20 GA AIR CORE INDUCTOR .. $3.35 $6.70
255-050 Yes JANTZEN 1.20mH 20 GA AIR CORE INDUCTOR .. $5.05 $10.10
255-400 Yes JANTZEN .20mH 15 GA AIR CORE INDUCTOR .. $6.10 $12.20
Subtotal: $88.34

My BOM when complete came in at 150.43

I have no intention to start an argument with this. $500 for a DIY LCR? Probably possible if going with the cheapest components. In fact most of the people i've seen did go with the cheapest BOM and are delighted by the sound of their Natalie P's ;) I can't wait for the center to be designed..

Here is the total bill for two NatPs built to the letter. Minus the enclosure, and wire.
It comes to $422.42. The PE box is $99.97, a custom enclosures cost will vary. This is without the recommended film and foil caps.

The OP wants to build LCRs, with a budget of $500 not including the enclosures. Even if he built 3 NatP's he won't make his budget. Also the NatP is not a center. To get a matching center he would need to build the Modula MTM Center. Have you priced that one out? It makes the NatPs look cheap.

I am not knocking DIY. Every speaker in my HT is DIY. At the bargain end though DIY isn't always the best way to go for everyone. Why are you trying to get the OP to go over his budget, or skimp on things to meet it?

If you can't defend your claims, your opinion is invalid. I am sorry but I have answered everything up post 22. I am done.

He may not be able to build the Natalie P/Modula MTM LCRs, but he can still build CJD's RS150 MTMs with that budget.

My complete parts list with the cheaper crossovers comes in at 004-20 Yes DAYTON DNR-20 20 OHM 10W NON-INDUCTIVE .. $1.25 $2.50
004-6 Yes DAYTON DNR-6.0 6 OHM 10W NON-INDUCTIVE .. $1.25 $2.50
027-402 Yes DAYTON DMPC-0.22 .22uF-250V POLYPROPYLE .. $0.78 $1.56
027-410 Yes DAYTON DMPC-1.0 1.0uF-250V POLYPROPYLEN .. $1.15 $2.30
027-414 Yes DAYTON DMPC-2.0 2.0uF-250V POLYPROPYLEN .. $1.52 $3.04
027-418 Yes DAYTON DMPC-3.0 3.0uF-250V POLYPROPYLEN .. $1.67 $3.34
027-428 Yes DAYTON DMPC-10 10uF-250V POLYPROPYLENE .. $3.15 $6.30
027-430 Yes DAYTON DMPC-12 12uF-250V POLYPROPYLENE .. $3.55 $7.10
027-432 Yes DAYTON DMPC-15 15uF-250V POLYPROPYLENE .. $4.10 $16.40
027-438 Yes DAYTON DMPC-25 25uF-250V POLYPROPYLENE .. $5.90 $11.80
091-1245 Yes DAYTON BPA-38G HD BINDING POST PAIR GOL .. $6.88 $13.76
268-350 Yes PRECISION PORT 3" FLARED PORT TUBE KIT .. $13.30 $26.60
004-.51 Yes DAYTON DNR-0.51 .51 OHM 10W NON-INDUCTI .. $1.25 $2.50
255-034 Yes JANTZEN .45mH 20 GA AIR CORE INDUCTOR .. $3.35 $6.70
255-050 Yes JANTZEN 1.20mH 20 GA AIR CORE INDUCTOR .. $5.05 $10.10
255-400 Yes JANTZEN .20mH 15 GA AIR CORE INDUCTOR .. $6.10 $12.20
295-364 Yes DAYTON RS180S-8 7" REFERENCE SERIES SHI .. $30.74 $122.96
275-130 Yes DAYTON RS28A-4 1-1/8" ALUMINUM DOME TWE .. $46.65 $93.30
Subtotal: $344.96

Add $10 for the screws, and you're at 354.96. If I missed the part where you need to buy pre-built enclosures I apologize, and LCR's wont be possible on a $500 budget in that situation. Stretch to 600 and even then you wouldn't be able to pull this off. If you build your own enclosures you'll be in the area of $600 for 3 Natalie P's (with the cheaper parts). I'd still go this route personally ;)

Exocer, $422.42 for the parts only. Used Mills, Perfect Layer, and Solen parts.

I included the PE box price in the post because it is what they were designed for, and mainly because he is using one for his sub already. :D

He may not be able to build the Natalie P/Modula MTM LCRs, but he can still build CJD's RS150 MTMs with that budget.You can get three of these for $500 in parts.

You guys seem to be forgetting the OPs wants.i've seen the natalie p's and they dont tickle my fancy much. i know there is a certain amount of science and forthought that goes into a design, but at the same time it can also be overcomplicated (in my opinion). for instance, i just like the looks of the polk (can't think of model number) speakers that have four 6.5" drivers on the front and a tweeter squeezed in there somewhere. something similar to that would be great and i cant see how it would cost a fortune when looking at PE i see what appear to be decent quality drivers for pretty cheap. i can't imagine polk using drivers that are much, if any better than those daytons. just seems like i should be able to build three towers that would yield polk or klipsch, or whatever quality for somewhere in the neighborhood of $500. i realize that a box design can make or break the drivers, which is where you guys would come into play. Sounds like he would love the designs at PE to me. PE Showcase (http://www.partsexpress.com/projectshowcase/homeaudio.html)

Here is the total bill for two NatPs built to the letter. Minus the enclosure, and wire.
It comes to $422.42. The PE box is $99.97, a custom enclosures cost will vary. This is without the recommended film and foil caps.

The OP wants to build LCRs, with a budget of $500 not including the enclosures. Even if he built 3 NatP's he won't make his budget. Also the NatP is not a center. To get a matching center he would need to build the Modula MTM Center. Have you priced that one out? It makes the NatPs look cheap.

I am not knocking DIY. Every speaker in my HT is DIY. At the bargain end though DIY isn't always the best way to go for everyone. Why are you trying to get the OP to go over his budget, or skimp on things to meet it?

I am sorry but I have answered everything up post 22. I am done.

Yeah, and most MTMs are not optomized for center duties, what is your point? Everyone knows this. Jon designed the Modula MTM center to get the best possible horizontal MTM performance he could get (well, using the Dayton drivers that he is so fond of). He knows that MTMs are not well suited for horizontal placement, yet a very large % of the HT crowd uses such a center.

Also, the PE enclosures cost a good bit more than if one built the enclosures himself. I like the PE enclosures though. Why did you waste your time when Exocer already posted that he built his pair for $460, using the recommended film and foil caps. That is including enclosure costs, you know.

"At the bargain end though DIY isn't always the best way to go for everyone. Why are you trying to get the OP to go over his budget, or skimp on things to meet it?"

Of course not, but that isn't what this discussion is about. He doesn't have to go over his budget, but YOU are the one trying to get him to skimp on things, by suggesting that he just not bother with DIY and go the ID/commercial route. Again, using a few slightly lesser quality caps in a speaker crossover will not turn it into garbage. It will still be of higher quality than a DIY speaker of the same price.

You made a claim:

At this price range I would be looking at the internet dealer speakers. At this price range they are very competitive with DIY.

but have yet to back it up with any examples. I would be happy to see some though. So no, you have not "answered everything up post 22".

You can get three of these for $500 in parts.

You guys seem to be forgetting the OPs wants. Sounds like he would love the designs at PE to me. PE Showcase (http://www.partsexpress.com/projectshowcase/homeaudio.html)

None of those posts make any sense, though. I asked him earlier why he didn't like the Natalie Ps, and I have yet to see a response. It just doesn't make sense...

For the $500, he could have a much better LCR setup than Polk or Klipsch could provide for $500. It sounds like to me that he doesn't want to use a good design, but likes the look of some Polk speaker because it has 4 6.5" drivers (which is irrelevant) because the quality of the speaker should come first, not how many drivers it has. Of course the Dayton Reference drivers are much better than the Polks, though.

If he doesn't want to bother with getting the most for his money, that is fine. I'll never post in this thread again, if that is the case. Afterall, he started this thread in the DIY section because he was curious about building some "Studio montor style speakers".

If he wanted some ID speakers, the folks in the speaker section would be more than willing to help him out.

For the RS150 MTMs, I came out to $366.75 for the drivers and crossover parts (using the GE buyout caps) for three speakers. That price doesn't include shipping or all of the extra things needed to build these, but you could still easily do it for under $500 for LCR.

Exocer, $422.42 for the parts only. Used Mills, Perfect Layer, and Solen parts.

I included the PE box price in the post because it is what they were designed for, and mainly because he is using one for his sub already. :D

I was aware ;)

The Pe box is an option, yes ;) if he did go that route he'd use a 2" port too :) He mentioned towers as an option as well. I only posted in response to your original comment which made it seem as though I spent a bare minimum on my pair ;)

i have some give on the budget, i'd just like to keep it around $500-ish. as i said, my sub ended up doubling in price and i would be willing to expand the price on this project, should i take it on, since it will be an over time project not requiring a lump sum at once.

as far as designs or driver sizes/brands i am not set on anything. i was simply saying that i like the looks of the polk rti10 http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3724393 . something like that would be nice in even a mtm that would sit atop a seperate bass chamber or something. i just like the looks, but of coarse i want it to sound good too. i also, like the looks of the m&k monitors, (i guess they are monitors, the ones with three drivers on one side and then tweeters on the other). i've never had a chance to hear them though. ultimately sound does come first, but if i can get the looks/style i like also, then all the better.

so the dayton prebuild xovers are no good? i figured at $40/ea they had to be pretty decent.

also, the center doesnt have to be a tower design, if not i'll just have to get a stand for it or mount it to the wall, no biggie. probably wall mount, as i dont care much for stands. id rather have it secured to a wall or a tower speaker with a large enought footprint that i wouldn't worry about it toppling. i'm not really sure how i'd like a third tower sitting in the middle anyhow. might go for something a bit more traditional.

soho, i'd like it if you keep providing your input as well. the more info and options, the merrier.

Exocer, I didn't see your post until after I posted mine. It took awhile to do the BOM. I think I stopped to eat also. I didn't mean anything. :D

ultimately sound does come first, but if i can get the looks/style i like also, then all the better.

noremacyug, it sounds like you want menacing looking speakers. NatP's with a bass bin, go big or go home right? If that is the case you might want to check out the RS TMWWs over at HTGuide. Since you are willing to stretch the budget out, these might be a good way to go. Maybe cjd's RS 3-way, they are top notch as well.

The RS TMWW also has a WTMW center design as well as the main towers.

Dayton RS WMTW Center & TMWW Mains (http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=15323)
Dayton RS 3-way towers (http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=11873)

Exocer, I didn't see your post until after I posted mine. It took awhile to do the BOM. I think I stopped to eat also. I didn't mean anything. :D

Hey, no offense taken :p
I am interested in the final decision the OP makes. At first it seemed the Natalie P was right up his alley, now this is not that case.

I'd have to agree with the above statement ;)

thanks again guys. i'm sitting here browsing the PE showcase (didn't even know it existed). some pretty nice designs in there. i also like the dayton rs center and mains you linked to soho. thanks again, any other places for good designs like these?

alright. after flirting with the idea of towers. i think it's best that i just stick with a bookshelf design and i'll go with daytons enclosures, unless you guys know of another source that makes quality enclosures for less.

as for driver selection, i'm going to browse pe and see what catches my eye. i like klipsch speakers and a horn design would be nice if possible, but not necessary. i want something that will give a flat and accurate response. the speakers will be 50/50 music/movie. i'm just looking to build 2 or 3 for now, unless money allows more.

as for crossovers, just how terrible are the PE x-overs. i really don't wanna fool with soldering up custom/expensive x-overs. are there any other places that sell quality x-overs. also, on the topic of x-overs, just how far into each drivers freq range should the other drivers extend?

i haven't decided if i want a 2-way design or a 3-way design, it just depends on which is the best for the money.

i guess the last thing i'm wanting is a bookshelf that will extend low. something with maybe an 8" or 10" if side mounted, perhaps dual 6.5", i dunno whatever works best. i want to set my lfe crossover to 80hz.

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=13969

Try the Natalie P's, but you're going to have to solder the crossovers yourself. None of the premade crossovers are going to sound very good, unless you buy one that's included in a kit (such as the ones on Madisound).

Don't bother with a premade xover, like Derek said, unless it is from a kit. I can tell you, though, that a single 7" reference dayton in a properly sized/tuned enclosure (like the Modual MT) will go very low for a bookshelf speaker. They hit pretty hard into the mid 30s.

i may do the natalie p's as everyone keeps recommending them. but i'd assume to just have a 2 or 3-way standard bookshelf design, not a mtm.

i've looked at those aluminum 7's and they are a deffinate possibility. any way of utilizing this driver http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=264-833 or it's 6.5" little brother? i can't imagine them not going low. i'm thinking a sealed bookshelf design. but a ported is acceptable, so long as the output is kept clean. i'd really like to do something a bit different with some not so common drivers. but at the same time, i know that i'm hindered by not having test equipment, ect. and i'm a newb, so i'm hurting even more.

i also like this tweeter (strictly aesthetical and will not choose if it sucks obviously) http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=297-409 . didn't know if i could utitlize this tweeter with the tang band (would have to be a 3-way if i did).

the dayton aluminums look to lend themselves well to a 2-way design due to their broad fr.

school me some more. :)

Those TBs are subwoofers, not mid-woofers. They are not made for two-ways...they might would work in a 3-way though.

I think you are understimating the bass response out of these: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-364

It really is excellent. Many can attest to that...IIRC, at one of the DIY shows, a lot of the folks thought that they were hooked up to a sub when they heard them (the Modula MTs).

Yeah...it really isn't a good idea to build a speaker by yourself from the ground up if you don't know a lot of xover theory/design and have the measuring equipment for testing.

I'd still recommend Derek's budget Modulas, simply because the design is so solid, and the performance is established. You'd probably still be happy with a cheaper design/drivers though, since even some of them are a lot better than the mass market garbage.

Yeah those RS180s have alot of bass by themselves! I was just listenin to them and I thought I had my sub hooked up to them, but it wasn't. But if you listen to your sub hot, then the Modulas might seem to lack bass a little but they're pretty well balanced.

yeah, i realized the TB's were not suitable to handle the mid bass freq.

didn't know if i could utitlize this tweeter with the tang band (would have to be a 3-way if i did).

i have no qualms with the daytons and i'm sure they would suite me fine. they look to have sufficient freq response, lend themselves to a 2-way design and they are at a good price. just was asking about the TB's.

what about the hivi external tweeter? i was thinking of 1 or 2 drivers in a prebuilt dayton enclosure with the hivi mounted on top. seems that this design would be fairly simple, but perhaps it would be crappy.

i apologize for constantly throwing out all these ideas and don't want to seem like i'm blowing off all your suggestions. just trying to weigh my options, perhaps even stumble onto something good.

(edit) - oops thought you were referring to the dayton aluminums.

I'm sure you could get that tweeter to work, but you would need someone to design an entirely new crossover for it. Plus, I've read at www.zaphaudio.com that the response for that tweeter is pretty terrible. Until you have experience designing crossovers, you should probably just stick to proven designs. All crossovers need to be custom tailored to the set of drivers you choose, you just can't have a stardard crossover for every single driver.

Bookshelf 2-ways or 3-ways huh?

Mark K has a few (http://206.13.113.199/ncdiyaudio/mark/projects.htm)

You already have the links to Zaph, HTG, and PE. Also cjd's.


One more thing, remember to chose a speaker that will be happy at the volume levels you enjoy. A 2-way and 110db levels don't get along very well. Just food for thought.

good point, i do likes the loud levels. i swear, i'm bouncing around too much on this. i really don't want to fool with building x-overs right now (but i could make myself do it if it was easy enough and didn't require a million connections). i'd like to do some diy mains, but i guess i'm wanting a stupidly easy and not very work intensive design. which may not be in the cards with a diy project. i just don't know.

i really don't want to fool with building x-overs right now (but i could make myself do it if it was easy enough and didn't require a million connections). i'd like to do some diy mains, but i guess i'm wanting a stupidly easy and not very work intensive design. This is not a good sign. Step back for awhile. Finish the sub project first, then come back to the mains later. You have that new amp coming in on Thursday, right? Don't get to rushed, you have other speakers now, right? See, no hurry.

haha, yeah. i don't think i'm gonna tackle another diy project right now. except possibly a second identical sub (waiting to see what this one does with the juice). i've been eyeballing jbl's northridge e series for the past few weeks. i finally went on and placed a bid tonight on some e50's. they look to be like something i would've liked to build and look to be a good deal that i feel will meet my demands. if i can get them for around $150 shipped to me then i think i'll be happy as they should demolish my current onkyos. going to start with them, then add the center and surrounds shortly.

Hi,
Where can I buy good components for my filtres?
I have the Infinity SM255 speakers.

have pics of the filtres, but this damn forum blocks my image and urls :S
"To prevent the abuse of spam, we have set this restriction in place until after you make 5 posts."

There are several capacitors like

100V 175UF +-5% ELYTONE
100v 15UF +-5% ELYTONE
100v 6.8UF +-5% ELYTONE
100v 5.5UF +-5% ELYTONE

and some other parts... what would you recommend me to upgrade?