I did pretty well with my last question, so I'm rollin' the dice again...

I've read here and other places that S-Video over Cat5E is viable. I've also seen people mention baluns when mentioning this setup. So, off I went to do some research and it appears most baluns' proclaim optimal quality for S-Video across Cat5E with runs up to 1,000 feet. They also cost between $60 and $300 (more or less).

My question: if my run is no longer than 40 feet (actually about 15 feet diagonally across my room, but say 40 feet just in case), do I really need baluns'? Would it look any better than regular component cables across RG6 if I didn't use them? Any guidance is most appreciated.

Composite < S-Video < Component

Component is better than S-Video. Component is 3 runs of RG6 while Composite is just 1 run.

I did pretty well with my last question, so I'm rollin' the dice again...

I've read here and other places that S-Video over Cat5E is viable. I've also seen people mention baluns when mentioning this setup. So, off I went to do some research and it appears most baluns' proclaim optimal quality for S-Video across Cat5E with runs up to 1,000 feet. They also cost between $60 and $300 (more or less).

My question: if my run is no longer than 40 feet (actually about 15 feet diagonally across my room, but say 40 feet just in case), do I really need baluns'? Would it look any better than regular component cables across RG6 if I didn't use them? Any guidance is most appreciated.


You might be able to get away with 3-5' but not 40'. RG6 is still better.

The BalUn is to match the impedance of the video source to the cable, and to match the cable to the load.
Video is designed to used a coax cable, with a 75 Ohm characteristic impedance.
Cat5 is not coax, it's twisted pair, and it has a characteristic impedance of 100 Ohms...resulting in a mismatch. An impedance mismatch at high frequencies results in signal reflections, and the inherent loss of 'quality'.

Because Cat5 is used for high speed data, some people, who don't know any better, think it would be ideal for video frequencies as well....they're mistaken.

I've used the Leviton quickport S-Video over cat5 jacks with success on short runs.

Search for "leviton 40734-sv" should be able to find them for less than $10 an end.

Paul

You might be able to get away with 3-5' but not 40'. RG6 is still better.

Probably a stupid question so forgive me, but how would I connect RG6 to an S-Video jack? I have no soldering skills, is there a connector for this? i.e., I'm using RG6 and F-type connectors on my audio/composite video runs and connecting them to an RCA-to-F Type snapin (On-Q/Legrand AnyPort).

Because Cat5 is used for high speed data, some people, who don't know any better, think it would be ideal for video frequencies as well....they're mistaken.

Interesting comment. What's your reaction to the current trend of video over Cat5 by, say, Crestron and Kaleidescape?

Interesting comment. What's your reaction to the current trend of video over Cat5 by, say, Crestron and Kaleidescape?

crestrons devices are in essence expensive multi port baluns which make up for the impedence difference as stated above.

Kaleidascape does not send video over cat5. There configuration is tcp/ip (data packets) to a local player which converts the data stream into a video stream.

Usiing a high speed op-amp for unbalanced to balanced conversion is much better then the use of a transformer...but the additional cost over coax, and passing the signal through extra amplifiers, isn't worth it, unless you have no choice but to use cat5.

I did pretty well with my last question, so I'm rollin' the dice again...

I've read here and other places that S-Video over Cat5E is viable. I've also seen people mention baluns when mentioning this setup. So, off I went to do some research and it appears most baluns' proclaim optimal quality for S-Video across Cat5E with runs up to 1,000 feet. They also cost between $60 and $300 (more or less).

My question: if my run is no longer than 40 feet (actually about 15 feet diagonally across my room, but say 40 feet just in case), do I really need baluns'? Would it look any better than regular component cables across RG6 if I didn't use them? Any guidance is most appreciated.

Cygnus111 - Back to your question, and repeating what Paul @ SBSmarthomes said, Leviton makes a S-video connector to be used with cat 5e cable. Just terminate the cable directly on the back of the insert. We've used these with success for runs of up to 100'.

http://www.levitonvoicedata.com/catalog/BuildPage.aspx?buildpageid=3375

You should be able to find them online or at a local Graybar. Hope this helps.

Matt

Matt - Sweet! Thanks! I'm pretty sure Home Depot has them, this makes my life alot easier. :)

Cygnus111 - Back to your question, and repeating what Paul @ SBSmarthomes said, Leviton makes a S-video connector to be used with cat 5e cable. Just terminate the cable directly on the back of the insert. We've used these with success for runs of up to 100'.

You should be able to find them online or at a local Graybar. Hope this helps.

Matt

We also use the Leviton 40734 with good success. FWIW, they are usually available on eBay. There's some there now.

crestrons devices are in essence expensive multi port baluns which make up for the impedence difference as stated above.

Kaleidascape does not send video over cat5. There configuration is tcp/ip (data packets) to a local player which converts the data stream into a video stream.

Sorry that this has gotten a little off-topic.

What's been your experience with using component video over Cat5? If you were doing a prewire of a new home and delivering component video to 5 or more zones, would you run 3 coax to each or us Cat5?

would you run 3 coax to each or us Cat5?

3 coax.

Three coax cables are cheaper then a cat5 with BalUns . There is insertion loss from the baluns, or noise and distortion added from the op-amps....why would you want that?

Dumb question. Are there RCA connectors specifically for RG6?

3 coax.

Three coax cables are cheaper then a cat5 with BalUns . There is insertion loss from the baluns, or noise and distortion added from the op-amps....why would you want that?

We're doing a retrofit that involves about 6,000 feet of video cabling if we use coax and about 2,000 if we use Cat5. Not wanting to compromise video quality but also not wanting to run 6,000 feet of coax, we did some benchmarks of component video over 3 coax and over 1 Cat5 at various lengths from 50 to 250 feet and found no measurably significant difference in video quality. Nonetheless, coax has been used for so long that it's the safe bet. That's the dilemma.

Dumb question. Are there RCA connectors specifically for RG6?

You can use direct compression or crimp style RCA connectors made for Coax, or do like alot of us do, and use RCA to F-Type adatpers, like this:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103580&cp=&origkw=RCA+Coax&kw=rca+coax&parentPage=search

Nonetheless, coax has been used for so long that it's the safe bet.

It's also what the video interface is designed to use. Notice how coaxial connectors are used for video (RCA or BNC)...as opposed to screw terminals, or an RJ45 connector.
The interface expects to 'see' a coax cable, with a 76 Ohm characteristic impedance...a twisted pair can't provide that.

Researching my current needs, I guess I am a bit confused... I'm in need of the following:

1) Composite Video (no HD) and analog L/R to a room about 75-100 ft away


I was under the impression that I could run all three signals over a single CAT5e cable, but needed a balun on each side (at about $100 each side). but then I see that Leviton has this QuickPort RCA and S-Video 110-Type - modular insert for about $5? Hence I would reduce my cost from $200 to about $10?

Researching my current needs, I guess I am a bit confused... I'm in need of the following:

1) Composite Video (no HD) and analog L/R to a room about 75-100 ft away


I was under the impression that I could run all three signals over a single CAT5e cable, but needed a balun on each side (at about $100 each side). but then I see that Leviton has this QuickPort RCA and S-Video 110-Type - modular insert for about $5? Hence I would reduce my cost from $200 to about $10?

Correct, you should be able to run a composite video and analog audio signal over 5e that distance without any issues.

Correct, you should be able to run a composite video and analog audio signal over 5e that distance without any issues.

I wonder why they keep putting coaxial connectors on video inputs and outputs, instead of screw terminals, or RJ45's?

So from what I can gather, Targus is against this idea :)

For my situation, I need to run a video and R/L analog audio to a cabinet and it will be split to broadcast to 3 small tvs (21 inch)... I am trying to prevent having 12 RG6 cables coming into a box... it would be MUCH easier with 4 Cat5e. With baluns this would be about $800....

I did notice that Leviton sells RCA to Cat5e plugs... I got the spec sheet from them, and they advertise being for 10-40 ft composite video, audio, or s-video runs...

All in all, with 21 inch tv's how bad would any signal degradation really be? I'm more concerned about damage to my sending unit from mismatched impedence (if that is possible). Bottom line is that I could run either, just one would be a heck of alot more difficult; and if the performance degradation is minimal then it will make my decision easier.

So from what I can gather, Targus is against this idea :)

For my situation, I need to run a video and R/L analog audio to a cabinet and it will be split to broadcast to 3 small tvs (21 inch)... I am trying to prevent having 12 RG6 cables coming into a box... it would be MUCH easier with 4 Cat5e. With baluns this would be about $800....

I did notice that Leviton sells RCA to Cat5e plugs... I got the spec sheet from them, and they advertise being for 10-40 ft composite video, audio, or s-video runs...

All in all, with 21 inch tv's how bad would any signal degradation really be? I'm more concerned about damage to my sending unit from mismatched impedence (if that is possible). Bottom line is that I could run either, just one would be a heck of alot more difficult; and if the performance degradation is minimal then it will make my decision easier.


The kind of signal degradation you get from impedance mismatches - ghosting, for example, would be very noticable on a 21" set. I would be very careful about doing this at 75-100 ft. My very rough back of the envelope says that you could see significant ghosting 5-7 pixels off on a 720p set.

Thanks Andrew- I also need to run signals from standard consumer analog audio (RCA connector-R/L) outputs from a CD player to an amp about 75 ft away. I was also hoping to do this over Cat5e. Would the audio also be affected, or is the noise much more a problem for the video?

Thanks Andrew- I also need to run signals from standard consumer analog audio (RCA connector-R/L) outputs from a CD player to an amp about 75 ft away. I was also hoping to do this over Cat5e. Would the audio also be affected, or is the noise much more a problem for the video?

The big problem for video is reflections. Reflections are not likely to be a problem for audio. There is some disagreement as to whether they are theoretically present - but nobody has ever been able to hear them over those kinds of distances in a controlled test.

There is some risk of noise such as AC hum but CAT5e is twisted pair and that cancels out almost all audio noise.

My bigger concern with the audio over cat5e is loss of bass response (and 60 hz hum). And if I understand correctly, Cat5e is twisted pair, but unshielded. So I even thought about just some form of shielded 4 conductor wire for the audio.

No technical reason you should lose bass response if there is no noise problem.

i was searching around online and came across the products mentiones RCA via CAt5 and S video via CAT5 as well. I am very tempted to use this because of the lack of space in the wall when I am trying to do this via a conduit, the run is only 5 feet or less from the middle of the wall there the TV is to just above the floor, where I would connect my components.. so far the word is that its ok? If I am afraid I would loose quiality I would get something that would correct the impedence for the video ? being able to punch down is great I save lots of space with having to worry about the terminals/connectors etc.

Now my only problem is making 2 HDMI cables feed through a conduit.. I know there is a company that makes a special coax so it goes from hdmi to coax within the walls.. but then do not make short lengths which i need.. and so far only thing I have found is HDMI to HDMi decora plates... which is ok if there is no other option...

let me know if you know something i do not thanks people

CAT5e is twisted pair and that cancels out almost all audio noise.

This is a common myth. Twisted pairs do not eliminate any noise. Differential transmitters and receivers do.

does anyone know anything about running 2 hdmi side by side, this is for in wall.. thanks

does anyone know anything about running 2 hdmi side by side, this is for in wall.. thanks

I can't answer your HDMI question, but as for the S-video and RCA over cat 5e, you shouldn't lose a thing. I am running VGA (Xbox 360, 720p) over about 5' of two cat 5e cables, and I have no loss of quality.

I can't answer your HDMI question, but as for the S-video and RCA over cat 5e, you shouldn't lose a thing. I am running VGA (Xbox 360, 720p) over about 5' of two cat 5e cables, and I have no loss of quality.

hey thanks for the reply, that is good to know. I am assuming u use the leviton stuff and not any special baluns or balun wallplates like from Intelix and such... So everything sounds good and looks good eh :) How long have u had the set up?

and I have no loss of quality.


...that you're aware of...

hey thanks for the reply, that is good to know. I am assuming u use the leviton stuff and not any special baluns or balun wallplates like from Intelix and such... So everything sounds good and looks good eh :) How long have u had the set up?

Actually I used the Hubbell line, but very similar to the Leviton line. No special baluns, just these:

http://www.hubbell-premise.com/FTP/Literature/AVBrochure.pdf (bottom right of last page)

Looks good, sound is fed directly from the 360 to the receiver through an optical cable. I've had it setup this way for about a month.

...that you're aware of...

Ok. No loss of quality that I can see. I was able to switch from the straight Microsoft VGA cable to over the cat 5e's in about a minute, comparing the two, and I couldn't notice anything different.

We have instaled these as well as the S-video and composite inserts quite a few times at my work, with really good success.

We have instaled these as well as the S-video and composite inserts quite a few times at my work, with really good success.

We evaluated the performance of these connectors, using a TDR set, and laughed at the results.....you'll never find these used in professional video installations.

We evaluated the performance of these connectors, using a TDR set, and laughed at the results.....you'll never find these used in professional video installations.

ok :rolleyes:. We have installed them mainly in schools or companies connected a laptop to a projector for Powerpoint, etc. And I don't consider my 360 to 32" LCD connection a professional video installation, so, as I said, no video loss that I can see.

This is a common myth. Twisted pairs do not eliminate any noise. Differential transmitters and receivers do.

QFT. Listen to this person.

Using "balanced" cable with unbalanced source/destination equipment does not magically turn them into balanced.

The advantages of true balanced circuit is their ability to reject common mode noise. Twisted cable (such as cat5) help by ensuring any noise picked up by the cable is picked up EQUALLY by both conductors so the differential receivers can reject them better. Unbalanced receivers will just happily amplify the noise that is picked up by the balanced cable, and you will have MORE interferance that if you used the proper shielded, unbalanced signalling cable.

Now, for a practical example, I tried the Leviton S-Video over cat5. I had a problem in that every time I turned on/off my ceiling fan in the room, I had a quick "interferance" show up on the TV.

So I replaced the cat5/cat5 punchdown S-video insert, and purchased a real S-video feedthru and real twin coax S-video cable. While I noticed no picture quality change (the impednace difference between the S-video cable at 75 ohm vs. the 100 ohm impedance of the cat 5 didn't seem to affect the picture quality enough to notice), the interferance was TOTALLY eliminated.

My run was/is 35 feet total.

-Alan

i just finish installing my in wall cat5e for S vide and sound. I am putting my TV on the mount today and will report back to let you guys know how it performs for short runs...

A 40 foot run is okay w/ RG6. Make sure you stay away from AC power and fluorescent fixtures. You can get EM interference. Also make sure the cables are exactly the same length.

Cat5 is a viable option. One potential problem I have experienced is Impedance mismatching between the RG6 cables in S-video or Component. On longer runs, the impedance must be matched, or you can get pretty severe attenuation. The only way to match the impedance is to order the length you want from a company that assembles the cable and verifies that the impedance is matched, or get eqpt that cost tens of thousands and try to match it yourself. With either option (cat5 vs RG6) make sure the runs are not parallel or close to runs of AC lines, fluorescent lights, RF cables, etc..

I felt I needed to add something to this thread...

I have a dedicated home-theater room, and we recently purchased a plasma for use in a hearth room near the kitchen. I installed the plasma, in the worst place for me, above the fireplace. When I built the house I ran RG6 and two CAT 5e cables above each fire place 'just in case'.

With no place to put a DVD player I researched baluns, and found Hubbells A/V line. I purchased two S-video + L/R audio baluns, which are 110 punch-down.

I installed everything yesterday. The first CAT 5 run is about 50 feet from the H/T room to my structured-wiring closet in the laundry room. The second run, from the laundry room to the fireplace where the plasma is, is about 50 feet also.

I put in the Eagles Farewell DVD to test everything. The image quality is about as good as my calibrated Pioneer Pro-530HDi, and the sound quality is as good as I can expect from the built-in speakers.

The plasma is a Panny TH42PX75U. The Hubbell baluns are the IMSR1101OW. ( I paid less than $45 for both baluns and plates locally.)

I will recommend this method to anyone desiring audio/video from a DVD to a remote location where it is simply not viable to place a DVD player near the display.