Looks like there is going to be a new successor to the HC3000 called to HC3100.

It seems that it will be about the same with a Darkchip3 DMD replacing the DC2 of the HC3000.

Also an option 5x instead of 4x colorwheel spped?

Also some enhancement for Cinemawide viewing?

http://global.mitsubishielectric.com/bu/projectors/products/homeuse/hc3100/index_b.html

The HC3100 home theater projector gives depth and texture to previously dull dark and black shades, creating images with rich expressive power. This transformation is achieved through the introduction of DarkChip3™ display technology and a new panel driver that result in a native contrast of 4500:1. Other advanced features include a high-resolution WXGA panel, a new variable-speed color wheel, an all-glass lens, a motor-driven iris, 10-bit I/P conversion, gamma correction with three viewing modes, the original BrilliantColor™ color processing technology and a high-definition multimedia interface (HDMI™). System operation ease and viewing pleasure are enhanced by automated image positioning, over-scan volume adjustment and distortion adjustment functions, which can be managed via the illuminated remote-control unit. Give yourself the thrill of true cinema at home.http://www.avp-newsletter.com/

2) Mitsubishi Electric: HC5000 LCD Projector
On IFA, Mitsubishi Electric will present an LCD projector featuring full HD resolution. The HC5000 can represent 1920 x 1080 native pixels. Among other features, the new HC5000 offers a motorized IRIS function, horizontal and vertical lens shift, digital trapezoid correction and a fan noise of only 25 dB. Furthermore, high-quality HQV technology by Silicon Optix is used to ensure best possible video processing. In addition, the HC3100, a new DLP® projector, will premiere on IFA 2006. This HD ready certified successor of the winning HC3000 consists of the latest DMD/DC3 panel offering a contrast ratio of 5000:1 and a WXGA resolution (1280 x 768). IFA: Hall 26, Booth 101/102
More: www.mitsubishi-evs.de/en/home.aspNew HC3100 brochure stating Darkchip 3 enhancements

http://global.mitsubishielectric.com/bu/projectors/download/catalog/hc3100_catalog.pdf

Japanese site

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.ippinkan.com/lvp-hc1100.htm&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=10&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DMitsubishi%2BHC3100%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG

First Discussed on the Mitsubishi HC3000 Thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8218132&&#post8218132

kudos for my_pacman for finding the original links :)

Comments from the HC3000 thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8222001#post8222001

discussion starting at post #2177


Well, the brochure says the HC3100 has a switchable 4 to 5 speed color wheel now.

Another thing in that brochure that I couldn't make sense of:

"The shutter function eliminates unwanted vertical image domains (floating dark spots, etc.) on cinemascope screens."

Anyone know what this is? What are floating dark spots??
HC3100 DC3 is probably the real deal but I will still have some doubt until I see something official from TI on a 1280x768 DC3 DMD . Which is not to imply that Mitsubishi has made a typo , it's possible that TI has just not announced that particular DMD as of yet (at least there is nothing that I can find on it) .
Switchable color-wheel speed could just mean that it accepts other refresh rates like 48Hz , 72Hz , etc. and actually adjusts the color-wheel speed as it should (like the InFocus models do) . I doubt there is a setting that can be adjusted but it would be interesting to see if true .

The HC3000 has the shutter function as well , not much mention of it being used however . The shutter function can actually shut off/block the unused sections of the DMD panel (on all 4 sides) so that there is no light bouncing off those unused DMD mirrors
Well, at least that what it says in the brochure:

"Color wheel speed in four and five speed settings. Chose the preferred speed setting 5 speed when color-breaking noise is a concern, or 4 speed when the stress is on gradation."

So what are floating dark spots? I guess it might just be the Japanese translation of dark bars? When I think 'spots' I think of round things.

No mention of how it handles 1080i ... same chip as HC3000 ???

Looks like it could be a real winner if the MSRP is actually $2K , I would be surprised to see it launch this low however (considering DC3 and the HC3000 still being $2K) .

Sounds very interesting for sure , I know I will be looking into it when it arrives ;) . I am also very interested in the HC5000 (even though I am not an LCD projection fan I still hope for the best with each new generation) .

----------- Jason

Anyone know when this is coming?

Originally Posted by fleaman

So what are floating dark spots? I guess it might just be the Japanese translation of dark bars? When I think 'spots' I think of round things.

Fleaman
They are probably meaning dithering in the black bars , which when properly calibrated should not be there anyway ;) .

------- Jason

Ah, I wouldn't of thought of that...maybe that is what they mean. But you are right, shouldn't be dithering in the black bars anyway.

Fleaman

No mention of how it handles 1080i ... same chip as HC3000 ???

Looks like it could be a real winner if the MSRP is actually $2K , I would be surprised to see it launch this low however (considering DC3 and the HC3000 still being $2K) .

Sounds very interesting for sure , I know I will be looking into it when it arrives ;) . I am also very interested in the HC5000 (even though I am not an LCD projection fan I still hope for the best with each new generation) .

----------- JasonWell, I'm trying to get more info on it from Mits today. If they are showing it at IFA, they are probably either showing it at Cedia or will know about it.

The brochure said it had the same 3020 ASIC controller chip.

I am interested if it has an improved handling of the BrilliantColor function, instead of just on/off like the HC3000 has.

Looks like it could be a real winner if the MSRP is actually $2K , I would be surprised to see it launch this low however (considering DC3 and the HC3000 still being $2K) .

----------- Jason

I think that $2k comment was from a poster converting Japanese Yen to dollars. Also may not be MSRP since it was a Google translation page....could of meant street price in Japan. Japan may have some taxes there that we are not taking into account.

I haven't seen a USA MSRP price announced yet.

Fleaman

Well, I'm trying to get more info on it from Mits today. If they are showing it at IFA, they are probably either showing it at Cedia or will know about it.

The brochure said it had the same 3020 ASIC controller chip.

I am interested if it has an improved handling of the BrilliantColor function, instead of just on/off like the HC3000 has.

Can you ask if the HC3100 will do the anamorphic stretch for 2.35:1 (for those that wish to use a Panamorph) . This was the only major feature that the HC3000 was lacking at its price range .

--- Thanks ,
---- Jason

It also looks like it has a straight even sized RGBRGB colorwheel instead of the extended red segment R+GBR+GB 4x color wheel the HC3000 has.

If it has even sized segments, maybe thats why those references say it can be 4x or 5x optional color wheel speed.

Can you ask if the HC3100 will do the anamorphic stretch for 2.35:1 (for those that wish to use a Panamorph) . This was the only major feature that the HC3000 was lacking at its price range .

--- Thanks ,
---- JasonSure, but I bet I'm not going to get a straight answer on this until Cedia. The channel probably wasn't supposed to know about this yet. ;)

Ya know, don't want to suppress sales of an existing product. :)

I think that $2k comment was from a poster converting Japanese Yen to dollars. Also may not be MSRP since it was a Google translation page....could of meant street price in Japan. Japan may have some taxes there that we are not taking into account.

I haven't seen a USA MSRP price announced yet.

Fleaman

Ah yes , I just re-read that post . It will probably not release here in the USA at $2K . My guess is a $3K MSRP , which is not bad at all for the features if they are all true :) .
---------- Jason

It also looks like it has a straight even sized RGBRGB colorwheel instead of the extended red segment R+GBR+GB 4x color wheel the HC3000 has.

If it has even sized segments, maybe thats why those references say it can be 4x or 5x optional color wheel speed.

Ah , would be a bummer since the HC3000 reds are fantastic , some of the best out there ( no orangey reds here :D ) .

--------- Jason

Grr, I might have to sell my new HC3000 if this comes out in a month at $2k. Hhhm, Best Buy 30 day return ...

Ah , would be a bummer since the HC3000 reds are fantastic , some of the best out there ( no orangey reds here :D ) .

--------- JasonYeah, but the TI engineers I talked to at CES and Cedia last year, said they liked the HC3000 implementation but they thought the ideal BrilliantColor usage was either a straight RGBRGB or a RBGCYM color wheel. The RGBRGB could be used to simulate CYM because of the transition phase between each segment.

They thought the extended red segments kinda messed with the theory, and was done only as a stopgap method to overcome the lamp spectrum. They speculated it was because Mits wanted to get the HC3000 on the market that it didn't use all the power of the BrilliantColor theory.

I thinj in the HC3000 it mainly acts a a mid range gamma boast. Though I like its effect too. I agree with you on the reds.

I think the HC3000 is the best bang for the buck on the market today. If the HC3100 builds on that then it could even better.

Grr, I might have to sell my new HC3000 if this comes out in a month at $2k. Hhhm, Best Buy 30 day return ...There is probably no way this is coming out in a month. Best case late October or November or even next year depending on US release.

Using the RG, GB, BR crossover to pump CMYW is all about having brighter colors not more accurate colors. There is a white paper out from TI that say exactly that - though as an aside mentions it could be used for extended CMY hex gamuts if you wanted to make a tradeoff with brightness- but that is also not accurate color nor supported by any known video format.

Having extended red segments may indeed mean the crossover segments are not balanced and they could not use that BC feature to pump CMY - but the reality is that turning BC off in any implementation is the only way to get accurate color. And you get more accurate color if you compensate for the lamp with extra red filtering - which yes indeed does cost you in brightness.

BC in the existing Mitsu is functioning identical to the white peaking in Infocus IN76 (which is also an extended red wheel) - brighter colors and whites all around with the crossver segments - making colors more pale and less pure - with the gamma distortions that come with.

One need only look at NEC last HT projector HT510 compared to the HT1000 - that when engineers pursue brightness with these color wheel tricks - the first thing sacrificed is accurate color. Use a brighter screen if you want brightness - then you can still have the accurate image. I would prefer to think that Mitsu designed it the way they did so that when calibrated you get accurate colors - and would hate to see them yield to TI pressure for uber BC implementations at the expense of accurate color they have now.

Using extra red in the colorwheel is not a 'stopgap' measure - BC did not invent a way to get more red out of the lamp! That is not to say they cannot have the same Red color with the equal RGBRGB colorwheel - but it is much less likely to occur - because if they have less space for Red they will compensate for the red brightness loss - with a less pure Red.

Here is a quote from the brochure:

"Adopts standard light D65 color temperature

The key to reproducing visual sources in more truthful color tones. Equipped with a color wheel that reproduces the color temperature considered to comprise standard light - D65 (6,500 degrees)."


Anyone able to translate this market speak into a significant benefit? Something to do with how accurately RGB and secondary colours are reproduced or??

Cheers
Peter

Ah , would be a bummer since the HC3000 reds are fantastic , some of the best out there ( no orangey reds here :D ) .

--------- Jason

For the life of me I can't figure out orangey reds. I notice them on many displays and PJs- even CRTs and plasmas. All the other colors look 'right' yet many displays have those orangey reds to them. How is it possible to get all the other colors 'right' and the reds wrong? Jason?

My Mits rep said that the HC3100 is not a certainty as there will be a push to 1080P. I would be happy if it was a HC3000 clone with a longer throw and lens shift. Did say that the HC5000 will probably be around $4k though.

I'm picking up an HC1000 tomorrow and will try to do a little testing over the weekend if anyone is interested. My rep said that it performs well enough to make it hard to justify the HC3000. We'll see.

Ben

CMRA

correct HD reds are too dark and cost too much light. Regardless of technology that would seem to be generally true! Also the DVD (SMPTE-C) reds are orangy compared to HD reds as well. The less saturated your color primaries are - they brighter the display. Most of us (except red-blind 10% males) can also see a lot of different hues of Red compared to Greens - so you could be physically off on Reds and notice it more than Greens.

Using extra red in the colorwheel is not a 'stopgap' measure - BC did not invent a way to get more red out of the lamp! That is not to say they cannot have the same Red color with the equal RGBRGB colorwheel - but it is much less likely to occur - because if they have less space for Red they will compensate for the red brightness loss - with a less pure Red.Well, maybe the colorwheel is exactly the same as the HC3000 and will get the same red results.

I was hoping Mits had a 1080p single chip DLP version in the works since they hit a homerun with the HC3000 in terms of color accuracy, gamma, and colorspace. Maybe it's still under the radar...

Interesting feature with the 4x/5x colorwheel speed option on the 3100 as well as the shudder function. How well does the shudder function work in terms of light masking at the panel?

Mike

My Mits rep said that the HC3100 is not a certainty as there will be a push to 1080P. I would be happy if it was a HC3000 clone with a longer throw and lens shift. Did say that the HC5000 will probably be around $4k though.BenWell, in talking to a Mits insider, the word is that this may not be a certainty for the US market because of the price point. The DC3 is much more expensive I guess than the DC2 version and there may not be enough performance enhancement to justify the price in the US market.

Us USA types may have to get it from Europe. :(

Then again, noone in their right mind may say that the HC3000 is going to be replaced in the US market if it is still selling. The Osborne Effect or fear of it.

I'm picking up an HC1000 tomorrow and will try to do a little testing over the weekend if anyone is interested. My rep said that it performs well enough to make it hard to justify the HC3000. We'll see.IMNSHO The HC3000 at its current price and performance is very easy to justify.

IMNSHO The HC3000 at its current price and performance is very easy to justify.


Agreed. It's a helluva machine. Just wish placement was more flexible.

Ben

Having extended red segments may indeed mean the crossover segments are not balanced and they could not use that BC feature to pump CMY - but the reality is that turning BC off in any implementation is the only way to get accurate color. And you get more accurate color if you compensate for the lamp with extra red filtering - which yes indeed does cost you in brightness.

BC in the existing Mitsu is functioning identical to the white peaking in Infocus IN76 (which is also an extended red wheel) - brighter colors and whites all around with the crossver segments - making colors more pale and less pure - with the gamma distortions that come with.

One need only look at NEC last HT projector HT510 compared to the HT1000 - that when engineers pursue brightness with these color wheel tricks - the first thing sacrificed is accurate color. Use a brighter screen if you want brightness - then you can still have the accurate image.

I concur wholeheartedly. Turning BrilliantColor off is the best option on the HC3000.

One little thing I'd wish from a new model is for Mitsubishi to add threads in the lens housing for attaching a filter. The way it is now, an ND filter will fit over the lens but you have to hold it in place with tape, which is far from ideal (mine falls off all the time).

Cine4home has gotten hold of preproduction samples of the HC3100 and HC1100 and has tested them in tandem:

http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/MitsuHC3100/HC3100-1100Test.htm

Cine4home has gotten hold of preproduction samples of the HC3100 and HC1100 and has tested them in tandem:

http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/MitsuHC3100/HC3100-1100Test.htm

Thank you!

The price they’re showing in Euros (List? Street?) is about $2900, so the same price the H3000 came to the market as.

Fleaman

Sounds like out of the box calibration is right on the money - that's great news!

Sounds like out of the box calibration is right on the money - that's great news!

Well......lets not forget these were sample projectors from Mitsubishi for reviewers, so there's the possibility Mitsubishi calibrated them before hand. Also these might be PAL specific versions (although they curiously left the menus language in English?).

There is also the possibility they cherry picked the PJ for the best optics (alignment, etc.).

Then again, I would suspect this more with Optoma and the PJ's Guitarman gets to 'review' than with Mitsubishi.

I think for every projector to have accurate 6500k OTB calibration, they would have to calibrate each individual PJ on the line (due to differences in lamps). I don't think Mitsubishi made any mention of this 'new' benefit?

Krasmuzik?

Fleaman

The new colorwheel is more like that in the Infocus - a RRGBRRGB wheel. Of course that does not mean manufacturing will provide accurate presets for the statistical lamp as long as presets are marketing driven - it just means you lose less from marketed specs to get to D65 as their review indicated..

I am confused though - how does the HC1100 differ from a HC3000?

I would not put it past any company to send calibrated review units - they are catering to the D65 spec crowd when they do that while they can still cater to the PJC crowd with inflated market specs. Of course Infocus does that too - but then all of them are factory calibrated so it becomes easier to pick one for review. Anymore I am convinced the only honest review can come from calibration customers units.

Question is DaGamePimp going to think 5x RRGBRRGB colorwheel, DC3 is worth upgrading after six months so I can go calibrate/review? Will I even post a HC3000 review before this gets to market? When will other DC3 1280x768 HT projectors show up?

I am glad to see the rumours of more BrilliantColor optimized colorwheels (CMYW) in this have been squashed!

Current H3000 owners might find it hard to justify a H3100 upgrade...maybe the only compelling reason is if they experience RBE with their H3000.

OTOH, for those who hadn't yet purchased the H3000, but were interested (like myself :) ), it seems a little more patience will pay off for us :D

Fleaman

I am confused though - how does the HC1100 differ from a HC3000?

!



The HC1100 has the "cheap" 1280x720 DC2 chip, while the HC3000 has the 1280 x 768 chip with digital Lensshift-function.

Also, the HC3000 has the variable Iris, the HC1100 has not (better black level). And the HC3000 has a bit more contrast-potential.


Another word about the samples: These were not extra-calibrated devices. Other brands like Sharp, Infocus, Panasonic already proved, that a great D65-calibration out of the box is possible, especially with optimized colorweheels.

Actually, the HC3100 and HC1100 are to be released within a few days from now, so the samples were probably already "normal production".


Regards,
Ekkehart

Another word about the samples: These were not extra-calibrated devices. Other brands like Sharp, Infocus, Panasonic already proved, that a great D65-calibration out of the box is possible, especially with optimized colorweheels.

Actually, the HC3100 and HC1100 are to be released within a few days from now, so the samples were probably already "normal production".


Regards,
Ekkehart

Thanks for dropping in!

How would you know the samples were not tweaked? I don't know about the other brands, but doesn't Infocus individually calibrate each projector to D65? I thought variances between lamp performances required individual calibrations?

I guess the only true way to know would be to test a retail bought version.

Another question if I may (which I couldn't quite understand with the online translators): what exactly were the artifacts/performance issues with going to 5x speed over the 4x speed wheel?

Thanks again for comments.

Fleaman

Thanks for dropping in!

How would you know the samples were not tweaked? I don't know about the other brands, but doesn't Infocus individually calibrate each projector to D65? I thought variances between lamp performances required individual calibrations?

I guess the only true way to know would be to test a retail bought version.

Another question if I may (which I couldn't quite understand with the online translators): what exactly were the artifacts/performance issues with going to 5x speed over the 4x speed wheel?

Thanks again for comments.

Fleaman


Hi there,

Well, we got many review samples from Mitsubishi already and no one was ever specially tweaked for review. :) Also, these samples were not initally intended for our review.

But of course, we will check retail versions as soon as available.. we always do that :cool:

And of course some calibration has to be done at the factory for each unit. But not by hand of course, by automated systems.


With 5x, you get more False Contour and a bit more banding.


Regards,
Ekkehart

Will the hc3100 have any lens shift at all.THANKS BUDDA

Will the hc3100 have any lens shift at all.THANKS BUDDA



It has 48 pixel digital lensshift, which is, depending on screen size, quite a bit.

Regards,
Ekkehart

It has 48 pixel digital lensshift, which is, depending on screen size, quite a bit.

Regards,
Ekkehart

Which is the same as the H3000 Buddahead.

Fleaman

So, do any U.S. Mitsubishi dealers know if this is going to come out here? and when? or do we need to wait till after Cedia as see if they announce it there? If it does come out here I sure hope it has a MSRP of $2k. If so......I want one!!!

Mike

Hey Ekkehart: Great job as usual. If possible, could you give us your "best of show" thoughts re IFA? With any luck it will have a lot of the 1080p stuff that will be showing later at Cedia. By the way if Mits was going to tweak the projectors it gives to Cine4home, they did a really bad job with the 3000 and as we all know now, it would have a been easy to get that baby right on the numbers.

By the way if Mits was going to tweak the projectors it gives to Cine4home, they did a really bad job with the 3000 and as we all know now, it would have a been easy to get that baby right on the numbers.

Maybe they learnt their lesson ;)

Think about it, when you get reviews touting the almost perfect D65 OTB numbers, it certainly ain't gonna hurt sales.

Of course when they test retail units we'll know for sure (the only way).

Fleaman

Cine4Home
I very excited about your reviews, but I am still waiting for translation at english versions at Cine4home Unfortunately no each review is translated.
Can we expect translation of HC3100 / HC1100review?

Regards,
Milimetr

Cine4Home
I very excited about your reviews, but I am still waiting for translation at english versions at Cine4home Unfortunately no each review is translated.
Can we expect translation of HC3100 / HC1100review?

Regards,
Milimetr

The internet is your friend:

http://world.altavista.com/

Enter the review link into the altavista 'translate a web page" box. It's not perfect, but it's NOW :D

Fleaman

Current H3000 owners might find it hard to justify a H3100 upgrade...maybe the only compelling reason is if they experience RBE with their H3000.

I had to pass on the HC3000 (though I loved the PQ) because of rainbows. 4x doesn't cut it for me.

OTOH, for those who hadn't yet purchased the H3000, but were interested (like myself :) ), it seems a little more patience will pay off for us :D

Fleaman

Seconded

What would be the point of calibrating the projector for 6500k out of the box? You put 100 hours on the lens and your calibration settings are going to radically change anyway.

No it does not change radically - the brightness can though as lamp flicker and red push burns away. I tracked the SP7210 periodically which was 0dE out of the box - and did not need to calibrate it until 300 hours at which point it had drifted 10% (at 200hrs it was 3%, at - 0hrs 0% ). The 100hr burn-in rule is more about achieving longer life to your calibration result since lamp decay is exponential in time - as well as avoiding initial quality issues with the box requireing return and calibration of the replacement. With the Infocus that I did calibrate we were well past 100hrs.

I am doing the same tracking the IN76 - but have not enough hours to report anything yet. It is by design 5% red to begin with - which means you are better off not correcting that as the lamp will drift into calibration - and factory calibration thus lasts even longer. It has been my experience that whatever the percentage it is out is the percentage of videophiles that want to keep it tuned.

I cannot make money as a calibrator on boxes that are 10% out - and 5% out forget it....lamp drift is much less significant a greyscale error than marketing screwing up presets by 30%-50% - based on percentages 3x-10x more calibration market! I would recommend only an annual refresh for the anal videophile if the factory tuned it - and of course there are always the 1%ers (DaGamePimp!) out there that don't want any drift! But since it is only a click or two off - it is affordable to keep it tuned. The other advantage is it remains a flat greyscale even as it drifts - which I find is more important.

Is this the only DC3 chip'd PJ with this config (and price point) or can we expect a refresh of the Infocus and Optoma PJs in this segment in the very near future. Mits does not have an exclusive here like IF did with the 4805, right?



....CEDIA next week...

Is this the only DC3 chip'd PJ with this config (and price point) or can we expect a refresh of the Infocus and Optoma PJs in this segment in the very near future. Mits does not have an exclusive here like IF did with the 4805, right?



....CEDIA next week...

Optoma already has the HD7100 DC3 at close to this pricepoint. I'd bet they would get more aggressive in pricing to meet and/or beat whatever the HC3100 comes out at. Not sure which DC3 IF has closest to this pricepoint - I'm sure Kras can fill us in there as an IF dealer...

This would be the first 15:9 DC3 DMD though...which makes it more cost competitive. Curious what Cedia has in the bag too...

I had to pass on the HC3000 (though I loved the PQ) because of rainbows. 4x doesn't cut it for me.
SecondedI'm curious, Grubert. Your one of the few reports of any one that I trust their experience on that ever experienced rainbows on the HC3000.

Were the worse on the HC3000 than other DLP projectors you liked? Do you think the HC3100 would probably eliminate those problems for you?

DO you know if the HC3100 will be available in the US or would a Euro version world just fine over here if it is not in the US channel?

So, do any U.S. Mitsubishi dealers know if this is going to come out here? and when? or do we need to wait till after Cedia as see if they announce it there? If it does come out here I sure hope it has a MSRP of $2k. If so......I want one!!!

MikeMy channel contacts say this is not going to be released in the USA because of the price they would have to charge in the US because of the Darkchip3 costing more to them than the DC2 version in the HC3000. So the US lineup will stay with the HC3000 and the new LCD HC5000.

I am going to try and beat info out of them or sense into them at Cedia.

The price premium for the different chip can't be that much.

I am going to try and beat info out of them or sense into them at Cedia.

While you're at it, find out their plans for 1080p DLP!

My channel contacts say this is not going to be released in the USA because of the price they would have to charge in the US because of the Darkchip3 costing more to them than the DC2 version in the HC3000. So the US lineup will stay with the HC3000 and the new LCD HC5000.

I am going to try and beat info out of them or sense into them at Cedia.

The price premium for the different chip can't be that much.

Well, that would stink if it holds true. I was thinking of getting this around xmas if all reports on it were as good as the 3000. Looks like I might wind up getting the 3000 or one of the competitor's if their prices fall. I really wanted a DarkChip3 DLP.

Give them a slap for me at Cedia...not too hard though...ha ha

Mike

I will have my best game on when I spend time every day at the Mits PJ booth. :D

I will make sure they know of the dissatifaction that will be around if the HC3100 is not a US release, most certainly after the very nice cine4home.de review.

The cine4home color measurements noted that the wheel looked like it was optimized for NTSC colors, with the red and green primaries very slightly off from whatever the color points he was using to measure. I took that to mean that on a NTSC scale they would be right on (except for green which looked like it might still be very slightly off.)

Also out of the box, according the review the colors were not dead on, there was a very slight excess of blue (by a constant factor all the way into the low IREs) which sounds like it was corrected by a slight negative blue offset.

Overall it still sounds good to me. The only slight disappointment was the CR, which I would have expected to be a little higher on a DC3 - I would have thought 4000:1 would have been achievable at D65. The good news is its terrifically bright at D65 especially with the iris off and bulb in high mode - 970 calibrated D65 lumens!
Iris on, low bulb was about half that, still very usable, even at the bulbs half-life.

[QUOTE=Kosty]My channel contacts say this is not going to be released in the USA because of the price they would have to charge in the US because of the Darkchip3 costing more to them than the DC2 version in the HC3000. So the US lineup will stay with the HC3000 and the new LCD HC5000.

The Darkchip3 costs more than the DC2 outside the US, too. In fact, the projectors aren't even made in the US. Because of this, if they don't sell this projector in the US but do sell it in the rest of the world, it will be for some other reason.

[QUOTE=Kosty]My channel contacts say this is not going to be released in the USA because of the price they would have to charge in the US because of the Darkchip3 costing more to them than the DC2 version in the HC3000. So the US lineup will stay with the HC3000 and the new LCD HC5000.

The Darkchip3 costs more than the DC2 outside the US, too. In fact, the projectors aren't even made in the US. Because of this, if they don't sell this projector in the US but do sell it in the rest of the world, it will be for some other reason.


This projector will be sold in the US, any other talk you hear is from people who would benefit selling you a HC3000. The HC1100 will take the place of the of the HC3000 and sell for what you can get a HC3000 now. The HC3100 will sell for slightly above 2K. Look for it at CEDIA.

Is the HC3000 available outside of the US? If not, it would seem strange not to release in both geos at once. There's a chance that the US is a good dumping ground for the HC3000 if Mits has any inventory issues.

I sure hope the HC3100 is available here... I want some DC3 competition!

Do you think the picture quality of the HC3100 will outperform Sharp Z3000?

Some say the HC3000 has deeper blacks than the Z3000, but, as far as I know, it also has less lumen output, thus a less bright picture overall.

With the HC3100, it seems it's the other way around.

cine4home.de's test results says the Z3000 has 421 lumen (in low lamp mode) with a contrast of 2700:1, while the HC3100 has 490 lumen and a contrast of 3000:1.

Hence, the Mits gives a brighter image but also less dark blacks?

Z3000 deepest black level: 421/2700= 0.156
HC3100 deepest black level: 490/3000= 0.163

Is this way of theoretically calculating deepest black, valid/correct?

This projector will be sold in the US, any other talk you hear is from people who would benefit selling you a HC3000. The HC1100 will take the place of the of the HC3000 and sell for what you can get a HC3000 now. The HC3100 will sell for slightly above 2K. Look for it at CEDIA.My reference also included some people who would know of the decision making process within Mitsubishi. I cannot identify the exact contact, except to say that the information is probably accurate as they were involved in the decision.

My only hope is that the decision is subject to change and that absolute nature of it (no HC31000 for the US) was an attempt to avoid the Osborne effect.

I'm curious, Grubert. Your one of the few reports of any one that I trust their experience on that ever experienced rainbows on the HC3000.

Thanks.

Were the worse on the HC3000 than other DLP projectors you liked?

I'd say more or less the same as in other 4x DLP projectors I've demoed (Plus Piano, Toshiba MT200). Several people I know saw rainbows on the Gladiator sc.24 torture test.

Do you think the HC3100 would probably eliminate those problems for you?

I think it will. I know I'll have more posterization with 5x, but I have no choice.

DO you know if the HC3100 will be available in the US or would a Euro version world just fine over here if it is not in the US channel?

I don't know. Maybe they'll wait till they deplete their current HC3000 stock. But it is coming to Europe and Japan. And you know what happens when a manufacturer releases a product in Japan but not in the US. ;)

Right now I don't know whether to buy the HC3100 or go for the HC5000. Each one has its own strengths and weaknesses, and considering the bulk of my viewing during the near future will consist of SD material, maybe the HC3100 is a wiser decision... Kinda like the debates on whether it was better to get an Infocus 4805 or a Panny AE700, right?

micke2

your math is correct - but you are nutz if you think you can see a 10% difference in either spec - or that unit variation is less than 10%....

The better math is to optimize your screen size/gain so they have the same brightness - then the higher contrast one wins. This is the mistake many people make in black level comparison - not equalizing the setup.

Besides picture quality is much more than just black level - the fact is I have yet to be in a room that can even achieve a 3000:1 black level with a 12ftL screen. Look for color decoding and gamut, and greyscale/gamma for true measures of picture quality.

micke2

The better math is to optimize your screen size/gain so they have the same brightness - then the higher contrast one wins. This is the mistake many people make in black level comparison - not equalizing the setup.

.

Or add a ND2 filter.....?!?!

Fleaman

Right now I don't know whether to buy the HC3100 or go for the HC5000. Each one has its own strengths and weaknesses, and considering the bulk of my viewing during the near future will consist of SD material, maybe the HC3100 is a wiser decision...I have experience with the HC3000 and I love it. But I am going to be able to have a larger home theater room in a couple months and I would love to upgrade. The HC3000 was the first PJ to me that gave me a picture I could live with, it was a leap to a much higher performance plateau. I have never been bothered by RBE.

So I am in the same situation. HC3100 or HC5000. The DC3 of the HC3100, the color correction, the 5X speed the BC levels instead of on off and the other nuances sound great for me. But the pure thrill of 1280p and the chance of future friends not being bothered by RBE means a lot too. I am not sure if the extra cost of the HC5000 would be worth it to me.

I am looking forward to seeing these beasts or at least the HC5000 at Cedia.

micke2

your math is correct - but you are nutz if you think you can see a 10% difference in either spec - or that unit variation is less than 10%....

The better math is to optimize your screen size/gain so they have the same brightness - then the higher contrast one wins. This is the mistake many people make in black level comparison - not equalizing the setup.

Besides picture quality is much more than just black level - the fact is I have yet to be in a room that can even achieve a 3000:1 black level with a 12ftL screen. Look for color decoding and gamut, and greyscale/gamma for true measures of picture quality.

Hi Krasmuzik:

Newbie here. I am considering getting an HC3000 (or another appropriate projector in the same street price range), to watch HD TV sports over satellite (50%), as well as SD programming (40%), and a little GameCube and DVD (10%).

I have read many of your posts in Mits/Infocus projector threads. I am trying to learn and understand what I need to do do configure my room and projector and screen to achieve the ideal ftL that you often mention.

I have a smallish, reasonably well light controlled room, with the PJ about 11' from the wall (along short wall of rectangular room), an IN76 can give me a 100" diagonal screen, while a HC3000/HC3100 can give me a 92" diagonal. What are the things I need to do to achieve optimal brightness? What screen gain should I be looking for?

Thanks for any help or pointers,

Ian
Vancouver, B.C.

PS - This site has the MSRP of the HC3100 at $1599 USD - http://www.aboutprojectors.com/Mitsubishi-HC3100-projector.html !

the formula used is

ftL = lumens*gain/squarefeet

and

squarefeet = screenwidthfeet*screenheightfeet

also

screenheightfeet = 9/16*screenwidthfeet

or simplified

squarefeet = (3/4*screenwidthfeet)^2


Your ideal setup starts at 16ftL to account for lamp aging, more if you have lighting issues. Your ideal max screen width is 3/4 your seating distance so further simplified

squarefeet = (9/16*seatdistancefeet)^2

which if you want gain involved

gain = 5*(seatdistancefeet^2)/lumens

Math is fun! Put it all in a spreadsheet and let it do the math!

Use the calibrated lumens from cine4home.de reviews then play with the variables.

PS - This site has the MSRP of the HC3100 at $1599 USD - http://www.aboutprojectors.com/Mitsubishi-HC3100-projector.html !

Interesting...yet that site also lists it as a 1280 x 720 projector, which it's not.

And elsewhere on that site I found this:
...with the HC3100 costing approximately $1599 and the HC1100 costing approximately $2099.

Looks like they mixed up the prices.

Fleaman

Yup, looks like the HC3100 will cost around $2,000. Several online retailers now list the HC3000 as discontinued, so it may not be long now. Timing is everything. I was within inches of buying the 3000 a week ago (staring at the box in the store). Thankfully, I delayed and found this thread. Good things come to those who wait a little while.

TVJon

Yup and I didn't.

:(

Is the HC3100 coming to US or not ?

In the meantime here is the manual:

http://global.mitsubishielectric.com/bu/projectors/download/manual/manual_hc3100.pdf

From the manual:

• When the projector is mounted on the ceiling, images
may appear darker than those projected in
the case of tabletop mounting. This isn’t a product
malfunction.

I've never heard of this before, why would this happen?

Mike

Mike

That is true for retroreflective screens (angular reflective are the opposite). Not sure what that has to do with the projector....maybe they had too many support calls from Da-Lite High Power owners and they are passing the buck without blame...

That is true for retroreflective screens (angular reflective are the opposite). Not sure what that has to do with the projector....maybe they had too many support calls from Da-Lite High Power owners and they are passing the buck without blame...

Kras,

Ok, that makes better sense cause I knew the High Power screens had this property. Maybe Mitsubishi has added their own High Power ability for tabletop mounting.http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Thanks,
Mike

Is the HC3100 coming to US or not ?

I just ordered the HC3000 from projectorusa.com and was told the 3100 is indeed coming but the date and MSRP are still TBD ..i would not expect definite answers til after CEDIA. My guess (and it's just a guess) is that Mits and dealers are still trying to clear out remaining HC3000 inventory.

Another great projector I can't use due to offset :/

Another great projector I can't use due to offset :/

Yet one I Can use due to it's offset :)

Fleaman

Yup, looks like the HC3100 will cost around $2,000. Several online retailers now list the HC3000 as discontinued, so it may not be long now. Timing is everything. I was within inches of buying the 3000 a week ago (staring at the box in the store). Thankfully, I delayed and found this thread. Good things come to those who wait a little while.

TVJon


Yup and I didn't.

:(

Well, I've been waiting for the right projector for almost 3 years now. Sometimes waiting doesn't get you much but seeing the next thing come out and waiting for the dust to settle. For me, I'm happy with the HC3000 I bought two weeks ago. I got it for half of the original MSRP, so I cannot complain and 36 months 0% interest financing, so I cannot complain. I'll upgrade when 1080p becomes more affordable, hopefully in the next 2 years.

Joseph

So is the offset for the HC3100 the same as the HC3000, I beleive 33%. I calculated the digital lens shift as + or - 6% of the screen height, does that sound correct? So if I am thinking of this right my total offset is between 27% and 42%.

Anyone want to correct my lack of logic?

I know Joseph.
Just gives fuel to the gf when she's like, "Why do you need to upgrade? They'll just be a better one out right after!"

:)

If the HC3100 ~$2000 MSRP is true- WOW. Infocus needs to get their heart right with the IN76 pricing. :)

The Mitsubishi site lists it's current rebates/promotions as "coming soon". Anybody know how long the site has listed it as "coming soon". Any speculation as to how long "soon" is?

http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/resources/promotions.html

The Mitsubishi site lists it's current rebates/promotions as "coming soon". Anybody know how long the site has listed it as "coming soon". Any speculation as to how long "soon" is?

http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/resources/promotions.html

I bet that is just their standard display page that comes up when all the promotions run out.

Fleaman

Nobody is even listing the HC5000 yet. Yup, looks like we will be looking at the end of CEDIA for better info.

I'm hoping the pricing will be comparable to the HD70. At least, I'd imagine the 1100 should be comparable. But if the 3100 isn't too much more, it would be nice to have DC3.

I heard from cedia that the HC3100 will ship in 2 weeks and at that price should be a great value. It just might be the new price leader for dark chip 3. We have great time ahead for us at a great priice.

Cine4home has gotten hold of preproduction samples of the HC3100 and HC1100 and has tested them in tandem:

http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/MitsuHC3100/HC3100-1100Test.htm



Hello together!


We finally put the english version of the HC3100 / HC1100 review online:


www.cine4home.com


Regards,
Ekkehart

Ekkehart: Thanks very much for the English version of the review!

Do you know when (or IF) the HC3100 will be made available in the U.S. market?

Another great projector I can't use due to offset :/
Same here. :(

I guess these 33% offset projectors are intended to save installation time; no need to wall-mount your screen... simply set it on the floor and call it good!

Same here. :(

I guess these 33% offset projectors are intended to save installation time; no need to wall-mount your screen... simply set it on the floor and call it good!

Saves money on seating too - all you need is pillows and maybe a bean bag or 2.

Same here. :(

I guess these 33% offset projectors are intended to save installation time; no need to wall-mount your screen... simply set it on the floor and call it good!

Or just install the PJ on your ceiling mount and enjoy your movie w/o the PJ hovering right above your head :eek:

Not everybody has their PJ in a basement.

Fleaman

Well, I don't have a pj in my basement, yet. I will when the HC3100 becomes available, but I do have a question.

When you ceiling mount this projector, what is the preferred height relationship between the projector height and the height of the top of the screen? I'm assuming they don't have to be at exactly the same height, but I'm wondering how far I can push it without introducing unwanted visual distortion.

I'm planning my media room now and thinking about having the projector mounted just below a tray ceiling, roughly 9 feet from the floor. The top of the screen would be lower than that... maybe 7 feet.. (106 inch diagonal is my planned size).

This offset discussion has me wondering. Thanks for the help on this noob question.

TVJon

TVjon,

Go to this Mitsubishi link:

http://www.mitsubishi-presentations.com/products/projectors/HC3000U.html

Click the Resources tab and download the throw calculator.

Fleaman

Even people with 8ft ceilings can have trouble with 30% offset. I like my screen about a foot or so from the ceiling, which makes these inexpensive DLP's unusable :(

I have a 7' 7" ceiling in my family room. And no its not in the basement. I also have a 133" Diag. screen. With those ridiculous offsets I either have to live with the trapisodial effect, which I have to this point, use keystone, or have my screen about 3" off of the floor!

With a lower offset everyone would be able to use any given projector. People with high ceilings could hang them from a pole. With a higher offset people with a high ceiling might still need a pole but the low ceiling people would have to raise their roof! The low offset and a pole, if needed, is the much more practical solution. Therefore, if there has to be a fixed offset, it makes the more sense that projectors should come with a lower offset to accommodate a heck of a lot more potential customers. Of course, like what has already been mentioned many times before, they should just put lens shift on every projector! That solution is really a no brainier. Even the lowly LCD manufactures could figure that one out! :rolleyes:

I came across this website (US) that says the unit is shipping. Haven't been able to find a reseller that concurs though :(

http://www.aboutprojectors.com/Mitsubishi-HC3100-projector.html

I have a 7' 7" ceiling in my family room. And no its not in the basement. I also have a 133" Diag. screen. With those ridiculous offsets I either have to live with the trapisodial effect, which I have to this point, use keystone, or have my screen about 3" off of the floor!

That's a HUGE screen! At that size, with your ceiling height, it practically fills the whole wall :eek: Yes, in that case any offset is gonna be a pain.


With a lower offset everyone would be able to use any given projector. People with high ceilings could hang them from a pole. With a higher offset people with a high ceiling might still need a pole but the low ceiling people would have to raise their roof! The low offset and a pole, if needed, is the much more practical solution.

Well, if I had NO choice (all PJ's having zero offset), then yes, I could still use it, hanging 3ft down from my ceiling in my living room...and it would look terrible! The only thing missing would be a blindfold and a stick to play piñata with it. Not to mention everyone would have to duck under it to avoid hitting their head on the damn thing.

I understand your needs, but your needs don't fit my needs and not everyone has a 133" screen in a 7'7 room.

Fleaman

I came across this website (US) that says the unit is shipping. Haven't been able to find a reseller that concurs though :(

http://www.aboutprojectors.com/Mitsubishi-HC3100-projector.html

That site has been mentioned before, but it has a lot of inaccurate information. It had listed it as a 720p chip (seems corrected now) and had the prices swapped between the HC1000 and the HC3100 (HC3100 @ $1599!). So I wouldn't trust anything from that site.

Fleaman

Will Cine4Home be doing an Optoma HD70 review? I'd be very interested to see how it's scores stack up against the 1100.

Looks like my list is now HD70/HC1100.

Will Cine4Home be doing an Optoma HD70 review? I'd be very interested to see how it's scores stack up against the 1100.

Looks like my list is now HD70/HC1100.
Projectorreviews.com will be doing a review of the Mitsubishi HD1000. Check out their review of the Epson 400. On the last page there a few pointers of what to expect of the Mitsu. Seems their finding might be the same as the Cine4. One of the best PJ for $1500.00 MSRP.

Will Cine4Home be doing an Optoma HD70 review? I'd be very interested to see how it's scores stack up against the 1100.

Looks like my list is now HD70/HC1100.


Not sure yet...

Regards,
Ekkehart, Cine4Home

Ekkehart, would you please post here or PM me the color adjustments did (i.e. the RGB numbers you arrived) to achieve the D65k color temperature for those of us who are a little challenged in that department.

Projectorreviews.com will be doing a review of the Mitsubishi HD1000. Check out their review of the Epson 400. On the last page there a few pointers of what to expect of this PJ. Seems their finding might be the same as the Cine4. One of the best PJ for $1500.00 MSRP.


Looks like the HD1000 has a white segment to get brighter as opposed to the RRGBRRGB wheel of the HC1100. Is the HD1000's wheel color corrected as is the HC1100?

Looks like the HC1100 is the better buy out of the two. But it looks like in this class the street prices are matching up 1:1 with the MSRPs. Unless the HC1100 comes out within a few hundred dollars of the HD70, I'll get the HD70.

As for the Epson, I have no interest in an LCD unless somebody comes out with one that beats the HD70 by several hundred dollars yet has comparable performance. I figure if rainbows don't bother me with my first-gen 1X DLP (even though I can see them if I look) they won't bother me at 4x.

As for the Epson, I have no interest in an LCD unless somebody comes out with one that beats the HD70 by several hundred dollars yet has comparable performance. I figure if rainbows don't bother me with my first-gen 1X DLP (even though I can see them if I look) they won't bother me at 4x.
I wasn't suggesting you look at the Epson. I said on the last page of the Epson review, they hinted what to expect of the HD1000. They also mentioned that the HD70 has a number of compromises compared to the HD72/HD73. I want to know what they are before I buy.

Okay, I see the remarks about the HD1000 now. I'm wondering if the 10 bit processing is worth the extra $500. I have a DreamVision DL500 - anybody know the color processing bittage on that one?

Projectorcentral said they saw a line on the flesh tones of the HD70. I wonder how noticeable it was.

Anyhow, at this point any projector will be a huge improvement over what I'm using now. I just wish there were a few more native 720 options within a couple hundred dollars of the HD70.

That's a HUGE screen! At that size, with your ceiling height, it practically fills the whole wall :eek: Yes, in that case any offset is gonna be a pain.



Well, if I had NO choice (all PJ's having zero offset), then yes, I could still use it, hanging 3ft down from my ceiling in my living room...and it would look terrible! The only thing missing would be a blindfold and a stick to play piñata with it. Not to mention everyone would have to duck under it to avoid hitting their head on the damn thing.

I understand your needs, but your needs don't fit my needs and not everyone has a 133" screen in a 7'7 room.

Fleaman

Yeah it is pretty big, but I like the "going to the theater" feel of the large screen. :D I have about 10" above and 15" below the screen but I have several feet on both sides.

You're right, not everyone has a 133" screen but I'd bet most of the people in this forum has pretty close to an 8' or so ceiling. And there are quite a few of those people that might like thier screen higher up on the wall. And at any rate the lower offset way meets the needs of everyone and not just the selfish few! ;)

Seriously though I don't think 0% would work very well either since, as you put it, you wouldn't want to duck under the projector when you walked into the room, but a 10% or so offset would be pretty workable for everyone. Even screen whores like myself. ;)

If I was a projector manufacturer I would want my product to be useable by as many potential customers as I could. Of course if I was a DLP manufacturer I would make all my projectors with lens shift and be done with the offset debate entirely. But there I go again, wanting to make everyone happy. Including you fleaman. ;)

It doesn't appear the HC1100 will be available in the USA. It seems to be only the HD1000. Can anyone confirm this?

Thanks for the link to the Mits site. The calculator is windows, I'm on a Mac now, so I can't use it.

However, from what I can tell from the user manual, the offset for the screen size I want is about 16 inches below projector height. Does that sound right for a 106 inch screen?

TVJon

Thanks for the link to the Mits site. The calculator is windows, I'm on a Mac now, so I can't use it.

However, from what I can tell from the user manual, the offset for the screen size I want is about 16 inches below projector height. Does that sound right for a 106 inch screen?

TVJon

106" diagonal? 17.4" below lens center.

106" wide, 20.0" below lens center.

Then there is some of that image shift (16:9 within the 16:10 frame) that can be used up or down.

Fleaman

Thanks a lot, Fleaman. The 106 screen measurement is in fact diagonal.

Your numbers give me an idea of how deep my tray ceiling can be and how much distance I can have between the ceiling and the pj and still have the screen where I need it to be.

It sounds like building the basic room and hanging the pj to test screen placement would be a good idea before construction gets too far along.

TVJon

Or just install the PJ on your ceiling mount and enjoy your movie w/o the PJ hovering right above your head :eek:

Not everybody has their PJ in a basement.

Fleaman
My basement has 8' ceilings just like the rest of my house.

The majority of homes in the US have 8' ceilings. The majority of HT projectors are ceiling mounted. I am definitely not in the minority... this is why there is constant whining on these forums about PJ offset. Including me - when I have to pass on two sweet-sounding $2k HD3 PJ's (the HC3100 and HD73).

I'm glad you have a bunch of dandy new projectors to choose from. Many of us are restricted to only the IN76 or LCD PJ's.

Also an option 5x instead of 4x colorwheel spped?In the past I believe Mitsubishi had a projector where the colorwheel speed could be chosen by the user like this and some of us wondered if stacking two of them and setting the wheel speeds differently could be a way to rival a 3 chip DLP. The rainbows should be pretty close to nil with one at 4x and one at 5x, although it is possible they would sync up to allow a person to see some rainbows. I also don't know if the timings inside would allow the video to not have any weird offset in time between the two projectors with the different colorwheel speeds.

--Darin

My basement has 8' ceilings just like the rest of my house.

The majority of homes in the US have 8' ceilings. The majority of HT projectors are ceiling mounted. I am definitely not in the minority... this is why there is constant whining on these forums about PJ offset. Including me - when I have to pass on two sweet-sounding $2k HD3 PJ's (the HC3100 and HD73).

I'm glad you have a bunch of dandy new projectors to choose from. Many of us are restricted to only the IN76 or LCD PJ's.

Well, you must be running a huge screen or just like your screens at the top of the ceiling?

8' ceiling and a 96" diagonal screen (with lens center 6" down from ceiling)> The bottom of the screen will be 28" above the floor and the top of the screen will be 21" below the ceiling.

My home has 8'4" ceilings.

I'm not whining about this PJ's offset.

Fleaman

Well, you must be running a huge screen or just like your screens at the top of the ceiling?

8' ceiling and a 96" diagonal screen (with lens center 6" down from ceiling)> The bottom of the screen will be 28" above the floor and the top of the screen will be 21" below the ceiling.

My home has 8'4" ceilings.

I'm not whining about this PJ's offset.

Fleaman

NO. For 8' ceiling and a 96" diagonal screen the bottom of the screen will be 24.7" above the floor and the top of the screen will be 24.3" below the ceiling.

NO. For 8' ceiling and a 96" diagonal screen the bottom of the screen will be 24.7" above the floor and the top of the screen will be 24.3" below the ceiling.

Oops, you’re right. Strange that I got those #'s from the Mitsubishi throw program, yet I can't repeat the #'s I first came up with....I dunno what I did :rolleyes:

Fleaman

Oops, you’re right. Strange that I got those #'s from the Mitsubishi throw program, yet I can't repeat the #'s I first came up with....I dunno what I did :rolleyes:

Fleaman
You assumed the center of the lens to be 2.7" down from the ceiling.

You assumed the center of the lens to be 2.7" down from the ceiling.

No, I actually had added 3" to the pole and the lens center was 6" down.

I dunno what happened, but I can't repeat it.

Fleaman

Since we're spending so much time talking about ceilings - while we wait for the HC3100 to start flowing through the retail channels - anyone have recommendations for mounts that work the best with the HC3000/3100?

TVJon

Is any dealer selling HC3100 in USA?.
Cedia Expo is over and no price yet?.
I would like to buy from USA and not from Japan. Japan price is about USD 2,145. I wonder if it will be similar in USA. I will wait until last week of october....

Federico

Just talked to a distributor and he informed me that the hc3100 will not be availible in the USA until after CES. :( I hope this isn't so.

Just talked to a distributor and he informed me that the hc3100 will not be availible in the USA until after CES. :( I hope this isn't so.

When would this be?

january

ahh...what a present for the new year. I will push to hold off till then if I can.

When is CES?

TVJon

When is CES?

TVJon

Look two posts up....January. :)

Sorry, my email link took me to the post just ahead of my question. In any case, it gives me time to build my room.

TVJon

Since we're spending so much time talking about ceilings - while we wait for the HC3100 to start flowing through the retail channels - anyone have recommendations for mounts that work the best with the HC3000/3100?

TVJon

Chief RPA-U

An ebay vendor is selling them now.

Getting them from Japan, I guess...?

Getting them from Japan, I guess...?

The item was located in Hong Kong. I wish we didn't have to wait for the U.S. release. Sure we could always import it but I have found out it is so much better having that warranty and having no problems getting it fixed here when problems arise.

Its gonna be a long 3-4 months till it is released here....sigh

Mike

The item was located in Hong Kong. I wish we didn't have to wait for the U.S. release. Sure we could always import it but I have found out it is so much better having that warranty and having no problems getting it fixed here when problems arise.

Its gonna be a long 3-4 months till it is released here....sigh

Mike


I'm feeling lucky and may buy one overseas.

Just spoke to Mitsubishi a couple days ago and there is no set time frame for the HC3100 coming to the USA (at least not yet) . I was offered a demo as soon as they are available here in the USA .

------- Jason

I can't believe they'd blow the chance to have it available for the holiday splurging season.

TVJon

Talk about giving a head start for Optoma HD73 sales.

Fleaman

perhaps they are waiting to dry up HC3000 inventory?

perhaps they are waiting to dry up HC3000 inventory?

I hope that's all they are waiting for as the 3000 is already getting a bit HTF new from auth. retailers ... I only can find 2 places atm

I'm feeling lucky and may buy one overseas.


let us know if there are voltage issues

or english menu issues

GO FOR IT!!!

let us know if there are voltage issues

or english menu issues

GO FOR IT!!!


They verified that the unit comes with both plugs and self regulates. Menu is English as well. The bad news. Even the infamous japanses exporter can't seem to get their hands on the hot 3100 units. They said product should be easier to get in 2-3 weeks. Price point looks great by the way. They also said the Mit 5000 would be released Nov 13-15th, but may be hard to get like the HC3100 for a few weeks following its release.

...so I'm stuck with a totally finished media room and no projector.

...so I'm stuck with a totally finished media room and no projector.

I'll be there in a few weeks.

Latest news I got from the Mits contacts I have is that there are still no definite plans to bring this projector into USA distribution. If it did happen it would be six months or more. :(

The guys I am talking to should be in a position to know. ;)

However a mid production change to the HC3000 has adjusted that projectors OOTB greyscale tracking to take the early excess blue out. The greyscale of current production or late model HC3000 should similar to the HC3100. :)

if that is true, I am glad I pulled the trigger on the HC3000. absolutely love it so far.

Kosty,

Any way to verify if the calibration was done (or in spec) on the late run 3000's. I got mine two weeks ago and the colors and DVE tests looked good, but I am curious if mine is D65.

Latest news I got from the Mits contacts I have is that there are still no definite plans to bring this projector into USA distribution. If it did happen it would be six months or more. :(

The guys I am talking to should be in a position to know. ;)

However a mid production change to the HC3000 has adjusted that projectors OOTB greyscale tracking to take the early excess blue out. The greyscale of current production or late model HC3000 should similar to the HC3100. :)


This sounds right as all of the major websites don't show a preorder for this unit. If you want it you will need to import it.

One the 3000 greyscale adjustment, what production month should people look/hope for?

Latest news I got from the Mits contacts I have is that there are still no definite plans to bring this projector into USA distribution. If it did happen it would be six months or more. :(

The guys I am talking to should be in a position to know. ;)

Do they have any plans for a 1080p DLP model?

There's a couple of importers that sell the HC3100 now. One is in Canada and has them in stock (according to web site), the other in Florida.

Search Mitsubishi HC3100 in yahoo, you'll see it within the 1st 2 pages. Prices are really low for the Florida importer.

Warranty could be an issue...the Canada distr. seems to have a 15 day defect guarantee, not sure about the Florida one. But it comes with English instructions.

Of course I don't want to post the actual links and prices....even though no one sells these here yet.

There could be more....I didn't go beyond 2 pgs of yahoo results.

Fleaman

I want it. Not badly enough to take the risk, though. I can work on my media room while I wait. At least that's what I keep telling myself.

TVJon

Do they have any plans for a 1080p DLP model?
The Mits rep at IFA said there were no immediate plans for a 1080p DLP. From what I understand, the 1080p DLP chips / controller are expensive, as are light paths lenses, which would result in a fairly expensive projector - more expensive than the HC5000 3LCD 1080p. Plus it would compete with the HC5000. My guess is once the HC5000 drops in price sufficiently to make room for a higher end projector, Mitsu. will introduce the 1 chip DLP as their new high end projector.

Warranty could be an issue...the Canada distr. seems to have a 15 day defect guarantee, not sure about the Florida one. But it comes with English instructions.

Boy, have I learned from past experience. I would never buy without a U.S. warranty. For my next projector purchase I will either buy a Optoma HD73 or a Mitsubishi HC3100. I wish there was a U.S. date for the HC3100 so I would know how long off I will have to wait to hear the comparisons between the two.

Mike

I myself would never buy a PJ w/o a full U.S. warranty either :)

Boy, have I learned from past experience. I would never buy without a U.S. warranty.

What was your experience? With which brand? For around $1,700 the 3100 is calling my name from all the way in Japan. I don't know why the manufacturer wouldn't honor the warranty - I suppose unless they NEVER do distribute them in the US. Hmmm..

What was your experience? With which brand? For around $1,700 the 3100 is calling my name from all the way in Japan. I don't know why the manufacturer wouldn't honor the warranty - I suppose unless they NEVER do distribute them in the US. Hmmm..

I bought a Marantz VP-12S1(720p DLP) right when they came out and they were about 1/2 price in Japan of what they were here in the U.S. Well, the first one I had worked fine for about a few weeks then it had 10 rows of pixels that were stuck. I had to ship it back to Japan and they gave me a new one...so, no problem but shipping it was about $350 round trip. Second one worked for about a month then it had a dead pixel in the center of the screen. At first they said that was within acceptable limits and I had to argue over and over again with them and finally had to contact someone from Marantz USA and they finally let me send it back and get another new one. The third one has worked good and I have been happy with it but the shipping of the projector back to Japan 2 times cost me about $700 considering I had to pay to have the new one shipped to the USA also. So, sure I still got it cheaper than buying it here in the U.S. but it was a pain in the butt and I would never go through it again.

Mike

For around $1,700 the 3100 is calling my name from all the way in Japan. I don't know why the manufacturer wouldn't honor the warranty - I suppose unless they NEVER do distribute them in the US. Hmmm..

If they have a global warranty and the warranty is valid here in U.S. then it might be calling alot of our names.http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

I would just check with Mitsubishi USA to make sure if a problem arises you are covered and can send it to them here to get it fixed.

Mike

Does Japan use 120V as we do in USA?

Does Japan use 120V as we do in USA?

Most - but not all - pj's have auto switching supplies.

I would just check with Mitsubishi USA to make sure if a problem arises you are covered and can send it to them here to get it fixed.

Mike

And if Mits. USA says your covered, get in writing. The last thing to you want is the word from some customer service or tech rep.

Fleaman

If they have a global warranty and the warranty is valid here in U.S. then it might be calling alot of our names.


Whatever their official policy, if the projector is not released in the US their tech department will throw up their hands if something goes wrong. If it IS distributed here, you should be able to talk SOMEBODY there into fixing it under warranty.

Still, the company most of us buy from in Japan (with the word price in front) will still get it handled with the price of shipping. You just have to make sure you've gotten a good enough deal to to factor in one or two shipments to Japan if necessary.

Just got the HC3100 the other day ... Came from japan,
Fired it up and watched Spiderman 1080p, and Fifth Element 720p .... Very filmic, smooth picture, ( esp noticable after owning an LCD ... )
(HDMI of course)

its a little louder with 5X colourwheel selected.. I prefer 4X ... I can see rainbows with both if i really try to .. but i guess its a good feature for some people

I just set gamma mode to "cinema", and colour temperature to 6500k ..

Just got the HC3100 the other day ... Came from japan,
Fired it up and watched Spiderman 1080p, and Fifth Element 720p .... Very filmic, smooth picture, ( esp noticable after owning an LCD ... )
(HDMI of course)

its a little louder with 5X colourwheel selected.. I prefer 4X ... I can see rainbows with both if i really try to .. but i guess its a good feature for some people

I just set gamma mode to "cinema", and colour temperature to 6500k ..

Congratulations - you're the man of the hour. Just to let you know, though, we're going to need LOTS more verbiage from you. That's just the way it is.

Questions must be answered such as:

1) Which projector did you use before?
2) In what specific respects was the 3100 superior?
3) Have you ever seen the 3000? If so, how big a difference?
3) How's brightness? Contrast? Eye fatigue? Color? 3D effect?
4) Are all the menus in English? Is it warrantied in the US? How good was the service you recieved?
5) How's it look for DVD? HD? How good are the dinterlacers?
6) What kind of artifacts do you see? Judder? Screen Door? Panel Noise? Mosquito noise? Convergence issues?


And this is just for starters. Remember being the big guy has its obligations. You can play it coy, but you'll spill eventually - they all do. ;)

Congratulations - you're the man of the hour. Just to let you know, though, we're going to need LOTS more verbiage from you. That's just the way it is.

Questions must be answered such as:

1) Which projector did you use before?
2) In what specific respects was the 3100 superior?
3) Have you ever seen the 3000? If so, how big a difference?
3) How's brightness? Contrast? Eye fatigue? Color? 3D effect?
4) Are all the menus in English? Is it warrantied in the US? How good was the service you recieved?
5) How's it look for DVD? HD? How good are the dinterlacers?
6) What kind of artifacts do you see? Judder? Screen Door? Panel Noise? Mosquito noise? Convergence issues?


And this is just for starters. Remember being the big guy has its obligations. You can play it coy, but you'll spill eventually - they all do. ;)

Ill try and answer the questions well.. but im not that much of a videophile :=) ... I am in Australia, but for the cost of the projector im not worried about warranty issues... Havnt checked whether it has a local one, as i am not concerned about sending it back if the need arises.

1) I used the old TW100H, but have been watching a friends HC3000 for awhile so i am used to that as well.

2) Obviously the picture is superior in every way to the LCD.. and having seen a TW600 i definately perceive a more smooth, filmic picture, whereas even the TW600 exhibited a "Digital Feel"

3)As mentioned before, yes i have seen the HC3000. The overall feel to the picture is similar, but there is slightly richer black and contrast that I notice in some scenes.

3) The colours are excellent, I would say more "rich" than before... I used to think DLP colours were not as good as LCD but i couldnt pick anything wrong. It is very bright... i found myself wanting to turn it down sometimes if anything, and thats with the iris closed, low lamp mode, and cinema gamma...Contrast is excellent i love watching dark scenes now, finally its at least equivalent to commercial cinemas. After being used to LCD.. I get a certain amount of eye fatigue, i guess because i am used to LCD .. but it is hardly noticable, and the more i watch it the easier it gets so no complaints there. 3D effect is excellent.. on some DVDs its very noticable, there is a real depth to the picture.

4) Menu was in Japanese but it took about 10seconds to change it. Excellent service took 4days to get to Australia from Japan

5) I cant really comment on deinterlacing because i feed it HDMI from a PC, I run it at 1280X720, even though i could do 1280X768 there is not point because of my screen size and the media i am watching

6) .. Screen door is excellent, much better than the LCD .. even on the Windows desktop i cant make out screendoor. I sit quite close to a 105" screen.. probably 3.5metres .. mosquito noise well i guess i can see a bit of that in solid colours in the sky etc... its something which doesnt bother me at all and i only see it on some dvds etc so i just put it down to mpeg compression and the DLP showing the source faithfully. After living with vertical banding and other crap on the LCd panel, the smooth realistic representations of Sky and snow is one of the reasons i like the HC3100 projector so much. As for convergence..

I notice a convergence issue in that i can see a red border around text on the windows desktop... hardly noticable but its there.. it gets better with the zoom adjusted but its definatly there.. (only noticable with black text on white background in webpages etc) Also i notice on a pure white screen that there is a slight brightness uniformity issue.. towards the bottom right of the screen it isnt quite as bright as the rest of the screen.. but again hardly noticable and during movies its irrelevant.

Gbickle - great writeup, thanks. You've done your mates at AVS a solid. But of course I do have just a few more questions:

Do you consider this a significant upgrade over the 3000 or just a slight improvement? If I read your comments right, the 3100 has more of a natural, refined look - maybe a bit less digital looking than the 3000?

Have you seen some of the more expensive DLP projectors to compare this to? And if so, how does it compare? I'm seriously considering this as stop-gap projector until the 1080p units start coming out and coming down. I'm just wondering if I might be happy with it longer term..

Gbickle,

How does the screen door compare to the HC3000? That is one main reason I want to go with a DC3 setup, but if it's only slight again, I'll have to see if the step up in price is worth it.

Gbickle - great writeup, thanks. You've done your mates at AVS a solid. But of course I do have just a few more questions:

Do you consider this a significant upgrade over the 3000 or just a slight improvement? If I read your comments right, the 3100 has more of a natural, refined look - maybe a bit less digital looking than the 3000?

Have you seen some of the more expensive DLP projectors to compare this to? And if so, how does it compare? I'm seriously considering this as stop-gap projector until the 1080p units start coming out and coming down. I'm just wondering if I might be happy with it longer term..

I was saying a natural refined look over the TW600 epson ... its a very similar feel to the HC3000.... To be honest the screendoor seems very similar to HC3000 as well .. you can just see a bit more contrast and black in some scenes .. The price difference at the time was about $300 US ... and thats about the difference in picture quality as well .. anymore it wouldnt really be worth it..

I havnt seen any of the current high end dlp projectors, so i cant really comment there... but i cant imagine a more filmic picture at the moment :=)

Interesting. I could save $500 going with DC2, or get slightly better contrast and slightly less screen door with DC3. Hmmmm.........

Edit: The Japanese site with price - is that the site that does paypal and wire transfer only, no credit card? I'm a little leary about not having the protection afforded by using a credit card...

Interesting. I could save $500 going with DC2, or get slightly better contrast and slightly less screen door with DC3. Hmmmm.........

Edit: The Japanese site with price - is that the site that does paypal and wire transfer only, no credit card? I'm a little leary about not having the protection afforded by using a credit card...

The difference on the japanese site is $100 US at the moment... But i guess your comparing it to what you can buy the 3000 for in the US?

And the only way to pay via credit card on that japanese site is through paypal yes

Basically i would be happy with either, honestly they have a very similar picture. In fact seeing a friends HC3000 was what made me buy the 3100.

How can there be a convergence issue on a single-chip DLP projector? Could the red border be something else? Or am I missing something?

Thanks for the info, gbickle! Those of us in the US who can't get one of these yet are hanging on your every (typed) word.

How can there be a convergence issue on a single-chip DLP projector? Could the red border be something else? Or am I missing something?


My guess is that this is simply chromatic aberration:

From Dictionary.com:
the variation of either the focal length or the magnification of a lens system with different wavelengths of light, characterized by prismatic coloring at the edges of the optical image and color distortion within it.

This is where higher quality glass should pay off. The fact that the problem goes away a little with zoom adjustment further leads me to believe that this is the culprit. But he said it's hardly noticeable.

How large is the red fringe - half a pixel? 1/4 pixel?

My guess is that this is simply chromatic aberration:

From Dictionary.com:
the variation of either the focal length or the magnification of a lens system with different wavelengths of light, characterized by prismatic coloring at the edges of the optical image and color distortion within it.

This is where higher quality glass should pay off. The fact that the problem goes away a little with zoom adjustment further leads me to believe that this is the culprit. But he said it's hardly noticeable.

How large is the red fringe - half a pixel? 1/4 pixel?

yes you are absolutely right ... i am too used to LCDS so i still call it convergence ... I will post a photo of some text on the screen instead of trying to describe...

Yep , that would be CA (no doubt about it) . My guess is that the HC3100 is using the same glass lens as the 3000 and to be honest it is not the best quality (very good but not excellent) . DC3 does offer slightly better CR and black level but it is not a night and day difference . They also claim that they fixed the Pivot dimple with DC3 but it is still there ;) . I was very interested in the HC3100 for a while but the more that I consider it the more I think my next step will have to be 1080p ( in order to be truly happy with the upgrade :D ) . Great to hear good things about the 3100 however as it should be a real killer if it is brought to the US .


--------- Jason

They also claim that they fixed the Pivot dimple with DC3 but it is still there ;) .

I haven't seen it on screen, but it should be less of a spot than DC2:

Pictures of DLP chips by generation (http://www.realmsoftracon.com/wet/dlphistory.jpg)

Definitely less of a spot and screen door than my 1st gen DL500. Judging by the pictures and given contrast ratios, mine is probably using either an 800x600 HH or SRV chip. (The DL500 is rated at 230:1 contrast)

Yes it is less of a spot than DC2 but not by much (minimal difference at screen) . Not that it matters really as nobody could possibly see it at proper viewing distance anyway ;) .

------ Jason

I was saying a natural refined look over the TW600 epson ... its a very similar feel to the HC3000.... To be honest the screendoor seems very similar to HC3000 as well .. you can just see a bit more contrast and black in some scenes .. The price difference at the time was about $300 US ... and thats about the difference in picture quality as well .. anymore it wouldnt really be worth it..

I havnt seen any of the current high end dlp projectors, so i cant really comment there... but i cant imagine a more filmic picture at the moment :=)

I'm suprised you don't find your HC3100 a greater improvement over your friends HC3000 considering the 700:1 difference in contrast post calibration (HC3100 measured 3000:1 at D65 vs HC3000 2300:1). Not to mention the HC3100 is supposedly D65 out of the box whereas the HC3000 needed some calibration in the secondary color department. Although I'm sure the differences would become much more evident if you A/B'd the units side by side. Oh well, I still think the HC3100 would be a considerable upgrade over my aging PE7700 :p

I'm suprised you don't find your HC3100 a greater improvement over your friends HC3000 considering the 700:1 difference in contrast post calibration (HC3100 measured 3000:1 at D65 vs HC3000 2300:1). Not to mention the HC3100 is supposedly D65 out of the box whereas the HC3000 needed some calibration in the secondary color department. Although I'm sure the differences would become much more evident if you A/B'd the units side by side. Oh well, I still think the HC3100 would be a considerable upgrade over my aging PE7700 :p

The rooms each projector were in need to be factored. It's unlikely 2 different rooms reflected the same amount of light...which affects contrast quite a bit.

Like you said, A/B side by side in a room that has dark walls, etc....would probably exaggerate the differences.

Fleaman

Honestly I would be surprised if the real world CR was significant enough to easily notice a difference , especially to an un-trained set of eyes (and in non-optimal HT viewing conditions) . The average consumer could not tell a difference of 700:1 between the two considering that the black level is slightly better while being marginally brighter on the 3100 . It is not as if the black level is tons better or that it is way brighter , it is combination of the two which makes it a little harder to detect . Having seen a really nice DC3 (the InFocus 7210) I can tell you that while there are advantages with DC3 they are not night & day (well ok the 7210 is really bright @ D65) but over-all image quality is not really a significant gain over a good DC2+ IMO . For two to three hundred more I would certainly go DC3 (all other aspects equal as is the case with the 3100/3000) but at $500+ more it then becomes a bit tougher to decide ;) .

-------- Jason

Will this have scaling (letter box feature)capable of a
anamorphic stretch for 2.35:1?

If there was a single gear LED in the room you cannot see the diff in black levels.

12ftL/3000:1 = 0.004ftL
12ftL/2300:1 = 0.0052ftL

Yes a 700:1 contrast difference is nothing but a 0.0012ftL difference in blacks. And if the HC3000 lamp was faded 25% from burn-in while the HC3100 was new - then they would have identical black levels.

9ftL/2300:1 = 0.004ftL

People saying contrast is a mind blowing XXXX:1 difference have played right into marketings hands. They don't want you to do the math!

It is an incremental improvement in black levels - the more important difference is that it is an RRGBRRGB wheel so that D65 presets are optomized. Uncalibrated vs. calibrated - yes you can see that - just look at Yellow, Cyan, Magenta gamut.

DaGamePimp is not just saying that to prevent himself from buying one - he has done the tests with me that such high contrast differences require side by side equalized brightness and sizes - and maybe you have the slight sense that one is maybe more 3D than the other - but that might be DC3 vs. DC2 motion dithering instead. And he gets his projectors calibrated so OOTB is less relevant :D

I would say that the thing that interests me about this projectoris the high lumen output after calibration. Does the hc3000 come close to the hc3100 in light output ??

If there was a single gear LED in the room you cannot see the diff in black levels.

Yes a 700:1 contrast difference is nothing but a 0.0012ftL difference in blacks. And if the HC3000 lamp was faded 25% from burn-in while the HC3100 was new - then they would have identical black levels.

People saying contrast is a mind blowing XXXX:1 difference have played right into marketings hands. They don't want you to do the math!
:D

I am considering upgrading my BenQ PE7800 (Matterhorn, 576p chip) to one of the new DC3s for both 720p and, I had hoped, for black level and shadow detail. From paper specs, this would be moving from a claimed 2000:1 CR, to a claimed 4500:1 (as opposed to a difference of 4000:1 to 4500:1 on paper from the 3000 to the 3100). Would this not be a noticeable difference?

timjuliani

No because marketed and calibrated contrast are very very different things. TI has their DMD charts showing slow but sure 20-30% contrast improvement with each generation - yet the marketed contrast has outpaced that by leaps and bounds with each generation. It is called marketing for a reason.

Nobody has ever verified the marketed contrast on the Mitsu, and you lose at least half on calibration maybe more depending on lamp age.

The DC3 is an improvement over the MatterHorn in the real contrast dept - and BenQ is not any better at the wide spread between calibrated and marketed contrast. Probably only 1000:1 calibrated - and when it gets that low you can see the differences.

here are some 3100 screen shots from a chinese website.The vendor took some pictures from hd contents to show off its capabilities。

I don't own this machines。so I don't know the setting ,etc。just found the website and thought these pics are decent and might get your interest 。So if you have further questions 。。Don't direct to me。。

Original post is here :http://heatmovie.com/bbs/read.php?tid=36436&fpage=1

And here MSRP is 16000 RMB，about 2000 USD。Street is not far south of it。

here are three more pixs..

Ok, I think I will go to St. Pete and pick one of these up from the eBay dealer if no company has it by the end of this month. I think this is the winner so far in my book.

Funny thing is the Mitts ship the HC3100 everywhere except USA.. Maybe someone should presents the issue to the Mitts USA.

Mitsubishi is well aware that the market is calling for the 3100 here in the USA but they are waiting .

--- Jason

I am not sure what they are waiting for. What is their DC3 offering for HT in the USA? Aren't they worried they will loose that market?

Man I wish the HC3100 had the same color as the HD1000. I just hate white PJs or electronics in general. Maybe the USA version will be the HD1000 color. *Fingers crossed*

The 3100 is white ? , I thought it was grey like the 3000 . I thought the 1100 was the light colored case but maybe I mixed them up or I simply don't recall ;) .

-------- Jason

The 3100 is white ? , I thought it was grey like the 3000 . I thought the 1100 was the light colored case but maybe I mixed them up or I simply don't recall ;) .

-------- Jason

yes its a silver grey like the 3000

yes its a silver grey like the 3000

Good , glad to see I am not totally loosing my mind ... allthough it sure is going faster than expected ;) .

-------- Jason

so it is silver grey. What color is the HD1000 called?

Mits doesn't have that many in the market to begin with! When I got my 3000 for a good deal, the guy told me that they just weren't moving. They definitely might lose whatever share they have if they don't stay up to date!

Any comments on the perceived color of the blacks? I've noticed that blacks sometimes have a bluish or redish hue to them. Does this projector display pretty accurate grey/blacks?

Any comments on the perceived color of the blacks? I've noticed that blacks sometimes have a bluish or redish hue to them. Does this projector display pretty accurate grey/blacks?

Cory ,

That is a calibration issue and it can be corrected on most current projectors . Out of the Box image calibration can vary greatly from one brand to the next and even from one unit to the next of the same exact make/model . Almost all of these units should be professionally calibrated if you care about having an accurate image (there are exceptions where calibration gains are minimal but still beneficial) .

------ Jason

seems like someone bought one of the 3100 from the fleabay merchant. If that person is on these forums, please let us know you experience with the product and transaction.

Yeah, anyone get one of these imported from Japan yet, and if so, how's it working out? We need screenshots - which we will all ooh and ahh at appreciatively, but of course will not base our purchasing decisions on ;)

Anxiously awaiting to hear whether:


its bright enough, cinema calibrated, to throw a big (136" 2.35:1) picture, in a fully light controlled room
it supports the necessary stretch mode to support an anamorphic lens


Edit: Here's the online manual (http://global.mitsubishielectric.com/bu/projectors/download/manual/manual_hc3100.pdf). It seems to indicate that it does have the stretch mode needed for 2.35:1 with an anamorphic lens (except for 720p and 1080i - boo) - although I'm never sure how to read these aspect ratio tables.

Also curious about the shutter feature (from Mits product info page on their website):


The HC3100 features a shutter function that cuts out unnecessary areas (black borders, etc.) at the top and bottom of a cinemascope picture for the ideal movie viewing environment.

Is this something that is common to LCD/DLP projectors to control light spill, or something unique to this projector, that may improve the blackness of the bars (eliminate / reduce the need for masking)?

A shutter function?! That would be quite a nice feature if implemented well.

I believe the 'shutter function' zooms/fills (digitally) say a 'cinemascope' aspect to the 16:9 ratio to eliminate the black top/bottom bars on non-16:9 material. Of course this would crop the LH/RH sides of the original material.

Fleaman

The HC3000 has the shutter function as well and it can be adjusted top/bottom/left/right , it does help with light spill and it does make the black bars a bit blacker (if you are critical) .

------ Jason

any actual word on when these will be available in the US yet? Thanks.


John

any actual word on when these will be available in the US yet? Thanks.

John

I don't think there has been any official announcement yet. Many are speculating that the earliest release date would be after the CES in January.

Is the HC 3100 called by another name in other countries? :rolleyes:

Just saw it on Eastporters but I don't think it has North America warranty ie grey items.
http://www.eastporters.com/estore/cart.php?target=product&product_id=79&category_id=1

Is the HC 3100 called by another name in other countries? :rolleyes:

No.

OK. BF is next week and I want a 3100 from a US reseller. When will someone at Mits capitalize on this market. At least they can sell it directly for the holidays.

Just saw it on Eastporters but I don't think it has North America warranty ie grey items.
http://www.eastporters.com/estore/c...9&category_id=1

The price is *horrible*. $200 above MSRP !!!. (unless it's canadian dollars, then it's about $120 USD which is an unbelievable price).

The price is *horrible*. $200 above MSRP !!!. (unless it's canadian dollars, then it's about $120 USD which is an unbelievable price).

That is in Canadian dollars.

Wow then!, a brand new AX100 for $120 USD !!!

Wow then!, a brand new AX100 for $120 USD !!!

Sorry, I thought you were talking about the HC3100.

Just saw it on Eastporters but I don't think it has North America warranty ie grey items.
http://www.eastporters.com/estore/cart.php?target=product&product_id=79&category_id=1

Well, on that sight is shows it to have a 1 year warranty with purchase upgrades to 2 and 3 year warranties. Plus the USA dollar price is rather good...no tax, free shipping (claimed on the USA site version).

But, it appears that the projector will be shipped back to Japan for any warranty issues and in the purchase price it seems you are automatically charged $75 for the shipback option for the 1st year, so in essence it isn't a North American warranty, but they act as your North American warranty agent. It's all explained at the bottom of this page:

http://www.eastporters.com/usa/cart.php?page=policy

That site also proudly lists a link to their resellersratings.com and ebay ratings.

Fleaman

Hey Guys!

Any opinions on how the Mits 3100 compares to the Epson ProCinema 810?

Dengler70

Given the Epson 810 is LCD, I'll predict it will have color non-uniformity, misconvergence, and a pretty nice screen door. But if you're subject to RBE, I guess you're stuck with those faults. Of course, if you get a Panasonic model, you just have to live with color non-uniformity and misconvergence with a slight possibility of vertical banding. That's the one thing I really like about the AE900. You can sit much closer than the "proper" distance.

Time to breathe new life in this thread. Just received shipment on a new HC3100, impressions to follow shortly. Gotta love the Japanese postage stickers all over the box. Lets see how it stacks up to my previous X1, PE7700, and my neighbors HC3000.... :)

Wonderful...so you ordered it directly from a Japanese retailer? How is warranty handled? Would be nice to see how it compares to your 7700 and 3000.

Thanks.

Looking forward to hearing your impressions, AlexBPM!

Yes, I ordered from a Japanese retailer (helps to have a friend that reads Japanese). The only downside of course is that if I ever have any warranty issues, I would have to ship it back Mitsubishi Japan. But I am confident in Mitsubishi's reliability (at least in their presentation solutions... lets not go into their cars :p ).

My initial impressions are very positive. First thing I noticed is how accurate the colors are right out of the box when set to "Cinema" and 6500k color temp. I've never seen such accuracy without any adjustments. Amazing, huge improvement compared to my PE7700. Color saturation is perfection. Unfortunately, it's not as bright or as sharp as my PE7700. But black level/contrast and color accuracy more than makes up for it. More to follow after some more viewing and a quick run through Avia.

I'm also very interested in a comparison with the HC3000. More specifically, is it really worth the $250-300 price difference? I just wish Mitsubishi would release the damn thing in the US. :mad:

Two projectors on my short list. The HC3100 and Optoma HD73. The HC3100 has an edge because it is available. But here's an important deciding factor.

I live at 6000' above sea level.

Can anybody report on how well the Mitsubishi series handles the high altitudes? I know some Optoma projectors had problems (the ones without high altitude mode). But I also know the HD73 has a high altitude mode.

So, after spending an entire weekend with the HC3100 I can give you a brief review. Again, these are detailed impressions... not numbers and figures. Everything that really needs to be said regarding calibrated specs have already been detailed on the cine4home review, so again these are real world impressions. I would like to make it clear that I am not a professional calibrator, but I do use Avia thoroughly on each source and input. I'd also like to add I have an extremely discerning eye, and I can spot color push and inherent flaws with uncanny accuracy. After all, I do consider myself a videophlie. I've spent many many hours calibrating and enjoying a Sony HS20, and X1, PE7700, and my neighbors HC3000. So this is my 5th project.

First off I must say that I can clearly understand why Mitsubishi may be so hesitant to release this product in the U.S. Because as other have speculated, it really doesn't perform that much differently than the HC3000, with two exceptions. It's ability to maintain exceptional black level at higher lumen output, and it's out of the box color accuracy. This is clearly due to the colorwheel which is already tuned to D65. Unfortunately, that brightness advantage I noticed may not be a fair assessment since the HC3000 I'm comparing it to already had about 1000 hours on the lamp. And a new lamp will obviously have more light output. But I think it's safe to say the HC3100 is the brighter machine.

As I stated earlier, the most shocking quality of the projector is it's out of the box perfomance. Just set to cinema, 6500k color temp, lamp on Low, Iris closed. Voila. No other projector I have ever worked with looked so beautiful out of the box. This is the first projector I have owned (with the exception of my X1) that I could actually sit back and enjoy a movie without obsessing over it's flaws. I was tired of having to tweak and calibrate every projector endlessly, I was never satisfied. Not so with the HC3100. Thats the reason I purchased it, you don’t have to be a calibrator to achieve a beautiful and accurate image.

My only complaint is that the image is softer than what I'm used to. I wish Mits would have changed out the glass optics and followed BenQ's example by using slightly sharper optics. After all, that is what HD is all about. A sharp and detailed image. But it truly is a more film-like experience, and the smooth image quality is a welcomed change when watching SD broadcasts and SD DVD's. Another area where the HC3100 trumps my PE7700 is in viewing Standard Def DVD's... they look much much better. Smooth, detailed, very film-like and rich in color. It is much more pleasing to the eye. This projector makes me want to break out the old SD-DVD collection and enjoy them all over again.

My neighbors HC3000 is dim compared to the HC3100, again not a fair comparison considering the 1000 hours on his lamp. But when watching Chronicles of Riddick on HD-DVD, the bright white stars and colorful galaxies superimposed over pitch black space (no pun intended) was gorgeous on the HC3100. The contrast was a beautiful thing to behold. Bright images superimposed over a black backdrop is what this projector is all about A welcomed changed from the PE7700. And much more pop than my neighbors HC3000, not to mention I never could get the colors just right on the HC3000.

I must say the contrast difference more than makes up for the slightly softer image. Also, my Saaria 1.3 gain ultra white screen is not doing this projector justice. I rather be projecting on an off-white wall to be honest, because the sacrifice in black level is very noticeable. So if you're planning to purchase a screen with the HC3100, I would still recommend a high contrast screen or something with 1.1 gain or lower. Then again, I am a contrast whore.

That's it folks, I won’t bore you with anymore useless analogies or rhetoric like “beautiful” or “amazing.” IMHO this projector is a winner. The most accurate, praise worthy projector I have ever owned. I just wish it was sharper. It really is geared for those that dont want to obsess with calibration and tweaks. You can literally calibrate brightness and contrast with Avia, and set the projector to cinema, 6500k color temp, lamp on Low, Iris closed.... sit back and enjoy. Now if I can only decide if I prefer Brilliant Color on 0 or 1... hmmm. :)

Great real world review!! I sure do appreciate you time in sharing your thoughts with us!! Chad

Great Review。thanx a lot..

Great review AlexBPM.

Regarding the softness; was there any improvement at the different zoom ranges? Also, do you think the softness was due to optic quality/alingment or inherent in the PJ? If you go right up to the screen and look at the pixel boxes, are the pixel lines soft or in just parts of the screen they are soft?

I think Jason had returned a couple of HC3000's before he got one that was optically aligned well.

Fleaman

Well, hopefully by Friday I'll be posting on my "non-professional" review of the 3100. While the Japan place is tempting, they have a no deposit no return policy. So I spent $400 more for the peace of mind of being able to return if something is wrong.

I'm pretty excited. Why? Because of my current projector.

DreamVision DL500 / HC3100
DMD: 800x600 either HH or SRV / 720x1280 DarkChip 3
Contrast: 230:1 / 4500:1 (3000:1 - cine4home)
Lumens: 600 / 1000
Color Wheel: RGB 1X / RRRGGBRRRGGB 4/5X
Inputs: Composite, S-Video, VGA / ditto + Component, HDMI

Anybody think I'll notice any sort of improvement? :D

Edit: I suspect the unit will be defaulted to Japan. Can somebody provide me with the remote key combination to get to the language menu? Also, should I expect a remote with japanese characters on the button? Hopefully the manual has an English section. It should - seems like every time I buy something here in the US the manual has more languages then delegates in the U.N.

Dan,

I recently went from a Davis clone to the HD1000U so I know you'll be impressed! The biggest difference I notice is how smooth the image looks. Quite an upgrade.

Maybe you can find a copy of the manual in english online, get a head-start on learning the menu options. I'm following this thread because I wanted the HC3100 but decided not to wait for the US version and I couldn't bring myself to buy from Japan. Since I tend to keep things a long time (like the Davis) I may have made a mistake, but (after a few days learning how to calibrate it) I'm very happy with the HD1000's image and it should hold me over 'til 1080 is reasonably priced.

Mark

grab the 3100 english manual from here

http://global.mitsubishielectric.com/bu/projectors/products/home/hc3100.html

Thanks for the link!

I did find one thing in the manual which makes the Optoma HD73 a better buy for those who can wait. According to the manual, if 99.99% of the pixels are working, there is no defect. Given the panel resolution of 1280x1024, that means 93 pixels can be dead, but there is no defect!

I wish more companies would guarantee 100% of the pixels. Well, as long as all the pixels work out of the box, they should be good to go for as long as I own the projector.

Great review AlexBPM.

Regarding the softness; was there any improvement at the different zoom ranges? Also, do you think the softness was due to optic quality/alingment or inherent in the PJ? If you go right up to the screen and look at the pixel boxes, are the pixel lines soft or in just parts of the screen they are soft?

I think Jason had returned a couple of HC3000's before he got one that was optically aligned well.

Fleaman

I haven't tried different zoom ranges fleaman. But I have heard of chromatic aberration being common at certain zoom ranges. I'll have to experiment to see if the softness is something that can be eliminated. I will post my findings

Hi Alex,

Having just recently ordered the HC3100 from the Japan website, Is the Projector's menu Language only in Japanese? Is the Remote Keypad in Japanese?

I'm just curious on what to expect from my upcoming projector, given DANLW's comments.

Thanks Again for your previous advice and reviews.

dengler70

Anybody think I'll notice any sort of improvement? :D



Uh yeah - but a Hasbro ZoomBox would have been a cheaper upgrade! :p

Hi Alex,

Having just recently ordered the HC3100 from the Japan website, Is the Projector's menu Language only in Japanese? Is the Remote Keypad in Japanese?

I'm just curious on what to expect from my upcoming projector, given DANLW's comments.

Thanks Again for your previous advice and reviews.

dengler70

According to the manual , the selection of languages for menu is more than the number of UN official languages 。。 the keypad is in english.

Wondering why you guys are ordering from Japan as opposed to the Canadian importer mentioned earlier?

That Canadian importer offers a warranty service and their price seems reasonable?

Fleaman

I haven't tried different zoom ranges fleaman. But I have heard of chromatic aberration being common at certain zoom ranges. I'll have to experiment to see if the softness is something that can be eliminated. I will post my findings


Ideally, the zoom adjustment should be in the middle to avoid CA.

Wondering why you guys are ordering from Japan as opposed to the Canadian importer mentioned earlier?

That Canadian importer offers a warranty service and their price seems reasonable?


Basically, the Canadian site charges a total of approx. $475 more. You could see this as insurance that if you get a DOA unit, you can quickly get a working one. Or worse yet, if you get a unit with a dead pixel, you can exchange it. Ordering from the Japan site, if you get a unit with one dead pixel, you're out of luck, given that according to Mitsubishi 99.99% of pixels working is normal. (up to 93 dead pixels)

So the way I see it, if you order from the Japan site, you're betting that the projector will be perfect the first time. I ordered from the Canadian site for the above mentioned reasons.

According to the manual , the selection of languages for menu is more than the number of UN official languages 。。 the keypad is in english.


Jiaolu is correct. The projector might as well have been manufactured in the US. Just change the language in the user menu and you are good to go!

As a quick update, I'm becoming less satisfied with the Canadian vendor. I ordered monday evening. It's now Wednseday evening and it hasn't shipped yet, nor have I received an explanation. If they shipped it Tuesday I would have had it Friday. Now it won't arrive until sometime next week.

I wonder if they have one particular day of the week when they have DHL do a bulk pickup...

As a quick update, I'm becoming less satisfied with the Canadian vendor. I ordered monday evening. It's now Wednseday evening and it hasn't shipped yet, nor have I received an explanation. If they shipped it Tuesday I would have had it Friday. Now it won't arrive until sometime next week.

I wonder if they have one particular day of the week when they have DHL do a bulk pickup...

Or maybe they drop-ship....

My experience if you are in the US and order from Canada can be at least two weeks of delay.

According to DHL, it should be three business days from there to here. The only real hold-up is when they decide to ship it. On Tuesday I was told it should be in the "next couple days". The thing is, their site says they usually get items to the buyer in about three days anywhere in the US. They're probably held up due to the shopping season.

It sure is hard waiting. But at least I won't have to wait all the way to Christmas!

Well, keep us up to date Dan. This is interesting. I've been looking at 3000's, but the 3100 sure would be nice.

I talked with them on the phone today. Apparently they had to order the unit from Japan, and it should be there and turned around today or tomorrow. Hopefully I'll have it sometime next week...

So I have found a setting under the "FEATURE" menu called "set up" which improved black level considerably when set to either 3.75% or 7.75%. And it is not a subtle difference, I was floored when I activated it. The users manual doesn't go into much detail, simply stating that setting to 3.75% or 7.75% makes blacks "more intense." Truth be told, this almost seems like the key to unlocking the HC3100's true potential. When toggling back and forth between 3.75% and default (OFF), the OFF setting looks considerably washed out in comparison! Has anybody noticed this? Does the HC3000 have this setting as well? This is a great feature to compensate for my 1.3 gain ultra white screen!

AlexBPM, I noticed the same thing when I activated either 3.75% or 7.75% on my HC1100. I saw the blacks drop even lower while keeping almost all of the highlights and mid-tone values the same. It really is an unbelievable feature.

Eggs

AlexBPM, I noticed the same thing when I activated either 3.75% or 7.75% on my HC1100. I saw the blacks drop even lower while keeping almost all of the highlights and mid-tone values the same. It really is an unbelievable feature.

Eggs

My thoughts exactly. I thought I might be sacrificing substantial shadow detail by setting it at 3.75%, but most if not all details are still visible just slightly darker. While the rest of the image has more depth and contrast. It's like a whole new projector! Since discovering this feature I am much more pleased with my purchase.

Does it make the picture sharper (or seem sharper?) or still softish?

So I have found a setting under the "FEATURE" menu called "set up" which improved black level considerably when set to either 3.75% or 7.75%. And it is not a subtle difference, I was floored when I activated it. The users manual doesn't go into much detail, simply stating that setting to 3.75% or 7.75% makes blacks "more intense." Truth be told, this almost seems like the key to unlocking the HC3100's true potential. When toggling back and forth between 3.75% and default (OFF), the OFF setting looks considerably washed out in comparison! Has anybody noticed this? Does the HC3000 have this setting as well? This is a great feature to compensate for my 1.3 gain ultra white screen!

The 3000 has this feature, but not through HDMI.

Does it make the picture sharper (or seem sharper?) or still softish?

I can't say the picture looks any sharper, although the improvement in black level and color perception may give the illusion of sharpness. But what you're really seeing is an overall better picture. Colors definitely have a lot more POP due to the improvement in contrast/black level.

The 3000 has this feature, but not through HDMI.

The feature is definitely active through HDMI since I'm using an HD-A1 for all my viewing. I'm surprised mits isn't promoting this as an improvement over the HC3000 if in fact the feature is disabled in the older model. It definitely makes the HC3100 a better value. Once set to 3.75% you will never go back

I can't say the picture looks any sharper, although the improvement in black level and color perception may give the illusion of sharpness. But what you're really seeing is an overall better picture. Colors definitely have a lot more POP due to the improvement in contrast/black level.

ok, so with this setting, how does it compare now to the 3000? I know as you mentioned, the 3000 has 1000+ hours, but your opinion is very helpful. Thank you.

ok, so with this setting, how does it compare now to the 3000? I know as you mentioned, the 3000 has 1000+ hours, but your opinion is very helpful. Thank you.

Off the top of my head, I would have to say it's a marginal improvement. I cannot say for certain since I am recalling from memory... but with set-up set to 3.75% the HC3100's image seems to have further improved contrast/black level while still maintaining it's brightness. The image is much more pleasing since my initial review. I'd have to say HC3100 seems to be a worthy successor to the HC3000. Of course, I am still taking into consideration the HC3000 I compared it to had 1000 hours on the lamp. So the difference may not be as striking if both units had new lamps.

Alex

learn to use Black level test patterns - they have blacker than black, blackground, and near black. Black level settings in a PJ are nothing more than an expectation where black may be - you still must adjust the brightness control to match the black levels of your sources.

And once you do you will see there is no difference in calibrated black levels - that is a function of the optics design - not the digital signal. A calibrated panel will be just a click away from the blacks showing very low level spatial/temporal dithering - mostly green.

There may be a subtle difference in banding/dithering of grayscale ramps depending on the switch after you calibrate - but not in black levels themselves.

If you flick the switch - you have to recalibrate your brightness. Otherwise you will end up clipping or floating blacks - which will look different - but neither is a better picture than calibrated.

Alex

learn to use Black level test patterns - they have blacker than black, blackground, and near black. Black level settings in a PJ are nothing more than an expectation where black may be - you still must adjust the brightness control to match the black levels of your sources.

And once you do you will see there is no difference in calibrated black levels - that is a function of the optics design - not the digital signal. A calibrated panel will be just a click away from the blacks showing very low level spatial/temporal dithering - mostly green.

There may be a subtle difference in banding/dithering of grayscale ramps depending on the switch after you calibrate - but not in black levels themselves.

If you flick the switch - you have to recalibrate your brightness. Otherwise you will end up clipping or floating blacks - which will look different - but neither is a better picture than calibrated.

Hey Kras. Thanks for chiming in. Let me state for the record that after every change in menu settings, I recalibrate brightness and contrast using Avia. I wish I had the means to afford professional calibration equipment, but I find that purchasing such equipment will provide diminishing returns. So Avia will have to do. Having said that, I have found that I prefer the results after calibrating with set-up set to 3.75%, than I do with it set to "OFF." I am unable to reproduce my desired level of black without it.

I dont want to give the impression and I'm posting amateur results here. I've owned and demo'd dozens of projectors at home, and via working at big box stores for many years. And even professional calibrators have complimented my ability to discern a fairly accurate image by eye. But I would still like to calibrate the unit as accurately as possible. So thanks again for the input! Any tips would be greatly appreciated.