I purchased a R-DES unit and am planning on working on my sub frequencies.

I have several bass traps and room treatments already - and sub placement is fairly fixed.

I was planning on a house curve but some reading seems to suggest a flat response is better.

What have you got and why?

Heard a house curve is better? It's only better IF it suits your ears. Start with flat and live with it for a while, then see if you want/need different.

Oh, where's the poll?

Kal

Kal .... Excellent advice ... and an even better question ... :D

ya where's the less than flat option? :p

till I have my dedicated theater, I have to cut back on da bass :(

Sorry I got pulled away. I've added the poll. :D

Sorry I got pulled away. I've added the poll. :D

We knew you had it in you ! ;)

I have a house curve, my woofers roll off around 35Hz but the in room response shows a large spike beginning just below 30Hz, I'll take it for now.

After postioning my subs as flat as I could get them, I had one peak at about 34hz. I use two different trim settings, one for music and one for movies.The music subwoofer trim level is about -11db and the movie sunwoofer trim level is about 0db. Since I use four 15's, I could get the same result by leaving the level at 0db for movies and using one 15 for music.I don't think that would be a house curve though.

KG

I have my VTF-3 eq'ed flat from 90Hz on down, although I've left in and smoothed out a gradual rise from 35Hz to 18Hz. I use a crossover of 80Hz in my Denon 2910, analog outs. And I have engaged the crossover in the VTF-3 (at 90Hz) since it gives flatter response in the 50-90Hz region, and it cuts down on peaks above 90Hz from bass interacting with bass from the mains (much flatter above 100Hz).


Here's my before/after BFD graph. This was done at 1/6 octave. After this, I used Avia sweeps to fine-tweak the filters.

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/503/graph.JPG



BTW, I voted as "flat" since my idea of a house curve is a gradual curve through the whole spectrum, not just a bit on the low end.

House Curve!

This compensates for my lack of hearing in those frequencies....I have the 9 Hz - 25 Hz area increased 5-6 db relative to the rest of the frequencies.

Jeff,
Don't you think that the recording master engineers already took this into account?

Mine currently are pretty flat (as verified with REQW), and I'm very impressed by the low end. I always figured if you had enough woofage that you didn't need the house curve. Maybe I'll change my tune after hearing Art's tomorrow. :)

House curve. 16-22hz are about 5db higher. I like the extra "feel" in my chest, couch, and air across my face.

Jeff,
Don't you think that the recording master engineers already took this into account?


---k---, Unless the recording engineers mastered the CD in Jeff's living room, room treatments and EQing the room will him closer to what the CD sounded like when it was originally recorded and mastered. Am I missing something here?

Nick

10db higher at 10hz than at 80hz here. Why is it assumed it has to be EQ'd that way though? :cool:

Don't you think that the recording master engineers already took this into account?
I don't. I think when they consider 99% of the population their tracks will be going to, subsonic bass is of no concern. They have to be most worried about the mids and upper mids.

I have a $220 EQ and I don't use it right now. MY FR is just too different at different seats. (look at graph) I have to wait to get room treatments before I EQ again.

When I get a dedicated theater, I plan on a small house curve. Starting at 30hz to 20hz but only a 3db rise or so.

http://images.andale.com/f2/124/103/8970570/1155845175997_AllSeats_fr_new_1.jpg

Unicron,

How often are you sitting in the three other seats for movies?

Unicron,

How often are you sitting in the three other seats for movies?

Often. Depending on the day, I might be on the couch or the recliner.

So you don't have a single sweet spot for watching movies?

Tried flat for a while and went back the H/C. I like the extra THUMP! :D

So you don't have a single sweet spot for watching movies?

Nope.

So I am going to wait until I get a dedicated theater, then get room treatments.

K,

Yes, you'll hear quite a bit of thumping and subsonics at Art's today.....I'll see you there.

Jeff,

Great meeting you yesterday. BUT, you didn't answer the question above! :)

I understand that our hearing becomes less senitive at lower frequencies. This question has been asked many times before, but I'm not sure if there is an answer. How do the sound guys at the stuidios master the sound recording. I would think they can only assume that the playback system will be flat, therefore they make it sound right on a flat, correctly calibrated system, and this implies that they would boost the bass up. But, I could be wrong.

But, this doesn't mean a house curve is bad. If you like a little thump down low, by all means, crank it up!!!

Ryan, do you think they assume people have systems flat to the subsonic level? Probably 75% of all dvd purchasers just playback sound through their tv speakers, and of the remaining 25%, the majority are probably using HTIB. Of the portion remaining who are not using HTIB, maybe 1/3 are truly capable to 20hz. I think the LAST thing they would want to do is boost the really low bass to match our hearing sensitivity. But I'm assuming a lot myself.

AVS would benefit from a film sound mixer on board so we could get answers from the horse's mouth :D

Steve,
Would it be post production ?

Would it be post production ?
KG, not 100% sure what you are asking? Do you mean the sound guy to answer our questions would have to be from post production? If so, yeah, you are probably right - I'm not very familiar with what each role contributes.

KG, not 100% sure what you are asking? Do you mean the sound guy to answer our questions would have to be from post production? If so, yeah, you are probably right - I'm not very familiar with what each role contributes.

Thats what we need, a damn horse. Watch him say we are all nutz for building such over the top systems.All except for Lucas Ranch of course.

We could designate a dedicated thread to whom ever.That would be cool.We'd drive the guy nutz with all the ground plane and decay times and treatments and extension questions.Hmmmm...

I know a guy who works in a smallish facility in town.They do all the commercials for buick and some other car manufacurers.Its called Post Central.They just started doing movies.Maybe I should sniff around to see what they have.

Ryan,
I don't know the standard protocol for those that make record / transfer the soundtracks.
Few users have systems capable of resolving 5 Hz- 15 Hz. Frankly, I am surprised any info makes it in at those frequencies as few could reproduce it at useable (and high) levels..
Through trial and error, I had my installer set the level of those audibly indetectable frequencies so as to give me more air movement. Air pressure in the room conveys the power of the bass in a cool way.

As you found in Art's room yesterday, there is a certain wow factor with strong air movement in a sealed room. I am sure I was certain I could see my pants flap during Serenity... Few have ever experienced such at such a high level.

Great meeting you yesterday. Art's theater gives an experience I'll bet less than 1% of AVS enthusiasts will ever hear or even would imagine is possible in a home setting.

Yeah, Art's was impressive, but he is going to have to cut a vent or something under that screen. The screen flapping in Sky Commander was just annoying!!! :D

(Oh if only I could have that problem! Wow, that room shook!)


I also don't know what the recording engineerings assume. Just though on the flip side, I can't imagine them assuming that someone has a big house curve with thier subs. If they assumed this, then the bass would be way low on someone with a flat system. ???

I just think the most reasonable assumption, so that everyone is on the same foot, is that the system is flat.

But, house curves are fun. :D

Sorry for bringing this one back from the dead!

After many many "wasted" work hours reading around the net I feel as though there is not any kind of agreement on this issue between all of us HT geeks. The thread got plenty of votes but not much explanation from every voter as to why they run what they run. Any further insights?

Unfortunately, the poll seems to have disappeared. Anyway, I've added a SMS-1 since this thread's previous incarnation. Now I have the best of both worlds: Flat for acoustical (Classical/Jazz) music, different house curves for movies and popular music, plus a separate one for older action movies with relatively weak bass tracks.

Edit: Okay, the poll is "back." Not sure if there was some kind of glitch yesterday or I was just too dumb to see it. :o

Flat as can be. I put my trust in the recording engineers hands... which most of the time fail me.

The poll is still there for me. Once you vote, that part of the page changes into the results.


Anyway, this is mine - BFD and bass traps on my VTF-3 Mk2 (response is combined sub + mains) :
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/130/379646377_10d38b2f75.jpg

Funny this thread was brought back from death - because I still have not calibrated sub with my R-DES - which - proves I should have simply spent the extra $$$ for the SMS-1. :D

Spot on it is what suits your hearing. I have my Velo SMS unit and ARO in my JL's.I end up using the SMS to check if there is no gross bumps in the frequency and move subs so they aproach a flat curve when possible.

ARO on JL's is defeated,I like my bass a bit on the rich side below 25Hz. ;) Not purist but what sound effect is in a movie?

flat on music
bumps and boosts on movies

To the people that run non flat EQ's for movies, could you all post a picture of your response in this thread and if we get enough response then trends may become readily apparent. I know some boost 35-40hz etc...type thing.