I just recently purchased a Toshiba 50HP66. This is my first plasma, but fourth HD display.

I have two questions. The first is, "how much false contouring is acceptable with this generation of plasma sets?" The second is, "Has anyone else had an issue with the electronics of their set causing excessive false contouring - something that would interfere with color processing?"

I see a tremendous amount of false contouring with this set. It happens on both my HDTIVO connected via HDMI and DVD player using HDMI or Component. I notice the "typical" false contour pattern around point light sources and color gradients, but also a "blocky" pattern on some nearly uniform color surfaces. This blocky pattern doesn't appear to be a compression artifact, it just seems like another manifestation of FC. The blocks appear to "jump" back and forth among different areas of the same colored surface, but not in "bands" like typical FC. This has even occurred while my kids were watching cartoons which is very odd since the area in question should be a single, solid color with no gradient whatsoever.

I have tested several programs both on this set and my Sony KF-60WE610 LCDRPTV set and the difference is staggering. I have adjusted all the (non service menu) picture controls but to no avail. I want to love this set. The picture looks great most of the time, but there are just so many of these moments that it really just yanks me out of my viewing experience.

Does it seem like I am expecting too much? And why do the same scenes from the same sources look so good on my LCD projection set in comparison to my plasma?

I have tried calibrating with my old Avia disk. Although it did not help, there is an animation on the DVD where they pan around a virtual media room (with a single colored brown or cream colored background) and I get slightly different colored brown blocks on this scene too. Perfectly clean on my LCD RPTV.

Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you.

-derek

I own a Zenith 42" ED, not a Toshiba 50" HD but I get what you are describing...but also almost exclusively with SD. Every once in a while, even with HD programming, there will be some contouring in a blue sky or scenes with a single point light source...but it doesn't show up that often.

I just got the HQV Benchmark disc to grade my year old set and it passed with a surprisingly good score for what it is. That lead me to pop in the DVE disc and run the reference images again after checking calibration. Not a trace of contouring with anything onscreen even though there is plenty there that might showcase it. So it seems to be very hit or miss and I think is also connected to the source content and quality of production/transmission.

The color field blockiness you describe I only see with SD. I generally see it mainly with the over compressed movie channels. Most times it simply cannot be removed no matter how much you adjust the brightness/contrast. It is almost like a digitized form of color field noise (which it may very well be) and it almost always seems to appear in background walls in scenes of certain avg. light value which is intermediate to low. Sometimes I see it in clothing as well or in darkened scenes like those often in bedrooms.

The contouring I think is mostly related to the color gradation capability of any particular set. The color field blockiness is just plain weird and may well be the result of a lack of proper (or any) noise reduction in my set which heavily compressed and digitized SD simply showcases.

Does the Tosh feature a control for Noise reduction in the Menu?

This is why I own an LCD. Yes I've been there and the picture is great but it does take you out of the entertainment experience. I think you have to make decisions if it bothers you too much.

This is why I own an LCD. Yes I've been there and the picture is great but it does take you out of the entertainment experience. I think you have to make decisions if it bothers you too much.

But the problem is you have to pay a fortune to get an LCD which comes close to doing what plasma does well. And LCD is even more dependent IMO on clean signal than plasma. Silk screen alone is not pleasant to watch. Like many here I own both technologies and the only LCDs I would likely consider today are the Sharp Aquos, mainly for the blacks. But to get the size I'd want...$15-16K :eek:

I think noise reduction control only works with SD content, not HD or upconverted SD. I see this problem both with HD and SD content. It is not noticeable when the screen image has many small areas with widly different colors, but when there are large areas of similar colors it begins to dominate. Items that are supposed to be a solid (or nearly solid) color almost radiate as these little squares dance around the screen. Keep in mind that this occurs on both HD and DVD content. I'm using D* so I know they are bit starved, but OTA networks have the same problem.

I guess the reason for my post was to see if these problems are common as I have been told that the current generation of plasmas are much better in regards to FC. Is this my Toshiba? Or is it possible that something is wrong with my set? The other thing is that everyone in my household notices the problem. My wife and kids are much more forgiving than I am in regards to image quality and they all comment on it.

Is the set at least user-calibrated? I'm just trying to make sure that what is being seen would not normally show with proper calibration. I'm also assuming you do not use any of the viewing presets but instead use your own lowered values with a Custom setting.

From your description of the widespread nature of the issue I would suspect either something in your set or the programming source is amiss. Since you say it is also visible with both HD & DVD play I then have to suspect the set. I know several people with this Tosh and none of them have any similar complaints.

I am encouraged by your comment that you know several people with this set and have not heard of compliants from them. I will try to put together some photo's of this happening on the screen and send them off to Toshiba.

Yes, I have calibrated the set using Avia and also used other peoples' settings for the controls. They are set pretty far down. This helps when the problem appears in dark areas (although at the expense of lost detail in the dark regions), but it does nothing when this happens on brighter colors such as, for example, the bright red chair in the new Charlie and the Chocolate Factory Remake or the Brown background on the Avia disk.

I own the Toshiba 50HP66 and have adjusted the video using Digital Video Essentials DVD method, accessing only the menu driven user controls. The false contouring is definitely present at least on my set, and is very distracting. It is especially noticeable on a scene with heavy backlighting. I am unable to reduce or eliminate this artifact with any of the user controls. I'm no expert, but I believe if the color saturation could be reduced, that may ease the false contouring artifact. Perhaps this is possible through the service menu? Simply turning down the color level user control seems to have no effect on the artifact. With color levels and tone adjusted according to Video Essentials, the colors do appear to my eye to be somewhat oversaturated. I have the color level setting backed down somewhat from the technically correct level, which to me yields a more satisfying overall picture quality. Another issue with this model is the lack of discrete "on" and discrete "off" remote codes. When I purchased this set, Toshiba originally listed "Discrete Codes" prominent among the features for both the 50 and 42 HP66 models. I have since noticed Toshiba has dropped this claim from its advertising.

The false contouring problem is a shame for the 50HP66, because it spoils an otherwise excellent video image.

I owned a 42HP95, which I recently swapped for the new REGZA 42HL196 1080P as the HP95 had an intermittant problem which could not be fixed. Anyway, yes, my plasma had the same terribly distracting problem, only in dark scenes, even in DVD and HD. While I'm no expert, I do not believe this can be corrected through either calibration or the setting controls. Perhaps someone else can shed some light on this but it sounds like it may be something inherent in plasmas or a problem they have processing images. My new LCD, while I do not think it is as good for HD, let alone black levels, does not have this problem at all. If this bothers you now, it's going to kill you later when it's too late to return it. My suggestion is return it and get your money back. Take your time and research other units.

I have a Sony BRAVIA KDL-32V2000... false contours on standard def as well as 1080i. 720p is clean.

A real kick in the shins for an otherwise great TV. I called Sony about it and they don't care.

This is why I own an LCD. Yes I've been there and the picture is great but it does take you out of the entertainment experience. I think you have to make decisions if it bothers you too much.
I am pretty sure that false contouring is just as prevalent if not more of a problem with lcds as a technology. Even the latest Sony xbr2s and 3s have false contouring.

I am pretty sure that false contouring is just as prevalent if not more of a problem with lcds as a technology. Even the latest Sony xbr2s and 3s have false contouring.

OK prove it! Heres a link to look at:

www.sony-mea.com/bravia/html/plasma_2.html

Also show me one post on the AVS forum where a member complains about "false contour" on LCD.

Your turn to come to the plate. I'm waiting.

False contouring will depend on the video processing - not the panel type that's put on front of it.

Unless we're meaning a different thing by false countouring...

False contouring will depend on the video processing - not the panel type that's put on front of it.

Unless we're meaning a different thing by false countouring...

Definition from the web on false contouring:

False contouring is evidenced by abrubt changes in luminance across an image rather than smooth changes. These abrupt jumps up or down in brightness are most observed with dark shades of gray, and they create a strong boundry between each level or false contour where there should not be one.

I have a Sony BRAVIA KDL-32V2000... false contours on standard def as well as 1080i. 720p is clean.

A real kick in the shins for an otherwise great TV. I called Sony about it and they don't care.
I've done alot of digging on the AVS archives and your post as of tonight is the first post I've ever read who says his LCD has this problem.

Also I've dealt with manufactuers on warranty and they don't tell you they don't care. In fact they would offer you to have someone look at it. And give you a case number.

Both you and member soncomet please find one post in the AVS forum that is complaining like you, and please go back many years to find one.

I also have the false contouring on my new 50 Toshiba Plasma. Can you help me determine if it is a tv problem or a source problem. I recorded a program with the false contouring present on my DVR. It was a dark scene and it was like a crawling moss was seen in dark areas of the show. I then switched the DVR to a different HDTV that is a 36 inch tube capable of displaying 1080I. I did not notice the problem with the dark scene until I adjusted the picture really high for brightness and contrast. This leads me to beleive that the problem is the cable and not my new plasma because I can see the same problem on a different TV, although I need to adjust the settings way out of wack to see it.

The TV is still in the warranty period. THe place where I bought will come out and replace it if I think its necessary. I just do not want to waste their time and money if its not necessary.


Thanks
Gary

...Gary, I have my 50HP66 in the same room as an older model Sharp DLP front projector -- the Toshiba shows false contouring in a major way (looks like "paint by number") whereas the DLP shows none. These two displays are connected to the same sources through the same receiver, both connected via component video. The problem shows up on the plasma regardless of source, better or worse with certain types of picture content. The plasma behaves worse through the HDMI inputs. If you have your dealer replace your 50HP66, and he replaces it with the same Toshiba model, I suspect you're still going to have false contouring -- it's a problem inherent with poor internal processing, which is lacking in this model. I suggest those considering a new plasma TV purchase to avoid the Toshiba -- despite its cheaper price.

Thanks for the response Jedi. Do you think I should replace the TV? The cable box/DVR really has me confused since I can also see the problem on the 36 inch tube HDTV when I incrrease the contrast and brightness.