New DVDO iScan VP50 [Text View] - Page 10

Axel

11-21-06, 09:50 AM

In theory, 480i ought to do a better job.

But even so, if 480i -> vp50 -> 1080p -> Ruby doesn't look as good as 720p -> vp50 ->1080p -> Ruby

then PrEP wouldn't do you any good anyway. It solves the image quality problems that a crappy deinterlacing stage prior to the vp50 causes. Which you don't have in the above scenario if you prefer what you get over 720p vs 480i.

I fully agree.
However, AFAIK no HTPC decoder can output an unprocessed 480i signal. From what I understand all HTPC resolutions get first de-interlaced "by design", then potentially upscaled to the desired resolution (e.g. 720p or 1080p), and lastly, if wanted, interlaced again for "i" signals, e.g. 1080i.

SDI mods for HTPCs are also not available.

(I would love to be wrong and be able to get a unprocessed/vanilla 480i signal from my HTPC....)
____
Axel

cat6man

11-21-06, 09:51 AM

I installed it with no problems, but I'm a veteran DVDO updater so I know all the gotchas.

The other major addition is PReP. I gave PReP a go on the HD DirecTiVo which can be easily flipped into 480p mode and has a really lousy deinterlacer. The difference between the 480i out and the 480p out is night and day..................
but I can see where PReP could be a lifesaver where native rate sources aren't available.

- Collin

Wonderful news. I'll have to load it tonight. This is a critical feature for me as my Zensonic z500 networked media player's Sigma 8620 chip cannot ouput 480i over HDMI, requiring me to manually change the source output between HDMI and component depending on the file I'm watching..........major PIA. Now I'll be able to leave the z500 => vp50 connection on HDMI for all video sources.

choddo2006

11-21-06, 09:55 AM

I fully agree.
However, AFAIK no HTPC decoder can output an unprocessed 480i signal. From what I understand all HTPC resolutions get first de-interlaced "by design", then potentially upscaled to the desired resolution (e.g. 720p or 1080p), and lastly, if wanted, interlaced again for "i" signals, e.g. 1080i.

SDI mods for HTPCs are also not available.

(I would love to be wrong and be able to get a unprocessed/vanilla 480i signal from my HTPC....)
____
Axel

Well that's the exact situation PrEP was designed for (although a good HTPC would be comparable to the vp50 so I'd suggest it's not going to buy you as much as it does with a cheapy digibox that forces progressive output)

so you should now be able to do

480i->HTPC->480p->vp50/PrEP (480p->480i->480p->1080p) -> Ruby

But as I say, with a decent HTPC... not sure you'd notice much difference but at least you're only scaling once and you're getting the vp50's great cadence detection.

You'd also want to switch off any kind of filtering the HTPC was doing in the process of producing its 480p output.

Tolstoi

11-21-06, 10:07 AM

Question--did you program your Harmony to turn your VP50 on or off, or did you customize your settings to just always leave the VP50 on?

The reason back is a few pages back I reported getting a "Serious Error 12" on my VP50 and the unit locking up with the LED solid blue. I had to do a hard reset to clear it.

Then, I had a few times where switching video sources with the Harmony (from digital cable to DVD or vice versa), I would sometimes get a blank screen on the TV with the audio being just fine. I ended up having to cycle power on the VP50 with its remote until it would give me a picture again.

Besides posting the "Serious Error 12" here, I reported that and the blank screens coming up to DVDO via e-mail and Aaron there has been very responsive and helpful.

First thing, "Serious Error 12," according to Aaron, usually refers to some problem with HDMI inputs 1 or 2. I was only using HDMI input 4, but I've not seen this error since (with fingers really crossed).

Aaron was ready to have me ship back my VP50 to him for testing but I wanted to play around a bit with the Harmony programming first when someone brought it up here in passing (and while I appreciated Aaron's offer I didn't really want to ship the VP50 back until after Thanksgiving with all the company that we coming over and all the football games on).

I now conjecture that my blank screen issue has more to do with my Harmony 880 and not the VP50. I reprogramed my Harmony to always assume the VP50 was always on (Aaron said leaving the VP50 in the "on state" was okay) and only use the 880 to change inputs on the VP50 (SD for DVD and HDMI4 for digital cable). Since then (with fingers crossed), I haven't had a blank screen pop up on my TV when changing inputs back and forth. And I've tried a few times to duplicate the issue. (Based on this 880 testing and reprogramming and comparing notes, Aaron believes I may not have a VP50 hardware issue but to keep him informed if something changes.)

Since I've also seen a few times when commands from the Harmony 880 to my Arcam AVR300 gets dropped or missed (i.e., selecting listening to AM or FM radio or playing a DVD with the 880, the input sometimes is "skipped" so the receiver's input does not change but stays to what it was last on) so I'm now assuming my initial 880 programming or my 880 is sometimes "flakey" or it may be a spurious 880 command sequencing issue or it may be a proximity thing (my Arcam is in the corner and I'm not always "head on" when using the 880 with it).

Not to knock the 880--I love it. Just something I thought may have been the VP50 MAY be related instead to the Harmony (or the user of it).

- Gerry

I am using all 4 HDMI inputs and never experienced any glitches with neither my VP30 nor VP50. Meanwhile, the handshake between equipment over the HDMI inputs is sometime painful the HDA1 being the worst. If the sequence is not right than I end up with an HDMI error message on the HDA1. Keeping the VP50 always on removed one component to synchronize in the power up sequence and resolved the situation. The Harmony is really good at sequencing the projector and the source power sequence. I tried the auto on/off on the VP30 and it is not behaving well with the Toshiba HDA1. So I decided to keep it on and do the same on the VP50.

I find out that with the Harmony I have to point in the right direction, some of the equipment drops commands when the angle is too strong and compare to my previous remote (TSU3000) the Harmony is less powerful. I found the best spot on the couth were to put the remote when changing activities. Since I am doing that, I had not a single issue with the power up sequence.

collinp

11-21-06, 10:09 AM

I use a prontoPro NG (US model TSU7000 I think) and found it very easy to setup & use but ONLY because I borrowed someone else's config (who shared a couple of devices with me) as a starting point and worked it out from there. The software has improved a lot and is pretty intuitive now.

It's so far beyond the Harmony in terms of flexibility and power, there's simply no comparison. I've tried the Harmony 885 and the lack of control drove me nuts and it was always asking the same stupid questions on the help button & never learning from what I told it to resolve what it had screwed up.

The Pronto NG gives you control over every aspect of your remote. You can and essentially must make all the screen layouts in Photoshop and customize the action of all the pressable areas on your screen. I love this level of control. Customization does have a serious learning curve for the novice, but once the remote is setup it can be very simple for a novice to use.

What I don't like about the Pronto is that it is basically a completely touchscreen remote. This is great for customizable interfaces, but terrible for something like a DVR. For control of a DVR you want a remote that you can pickup quickly and without looking know/feel where the important buttons are. The Pronto is also a pretty large remote by modern standards. It looks in photos like its about the size of PalmPilot. It's not. Its considerably larger, about the size of paperback novel.

The Harmony hardware, however, rocks. The ergonomics of the 890 are quite good. The directional control/volume/channel controls are right under you thumb when you pick it up. Just below that are the transport controls. It recharges in its cradle. It controls IR devices via RF. It even has a motion sensor that turns on the backlight when you pick it up. Very nice. The activity based control is very smooth and its smart state technology can track the power state and current input of your devices, so even those devices without discrete IR codes can be used in macros.

Programming the Harmony however is kind of a pain in the butt. The website integration is interesting because in theory the database is always being updated. However the database is not user contributed, but managed by Harmony so more obscure devices (like the VP50) are often incomplete in the database. Configuration is through countless forms and wizards. THe questions are useful for guiding a novice user, but really become an impediment for more seasoned users. The software also has some glaring omissions like lack of explicit macro support. Almost everything that can be macroed can be accomplished via some trick, though its not always obvious how to do so. Also the software lacks any way to enter hex codes if the codes aren't in the database. You can email pronto hex to customer support, but I've gotten very little response from them, particularly since the Logitech buy out. The remote however can learn codes from other remotes. I often enter discrete codes into my Pronto so that I can teach the Harmony a new code.

Overall, my wife and I prefer to use the Harmony over the Pronto. The Pronto gathers dust under the coffee table. I really wish Logitech would provide some sort of "advanced user" configuration option which gave almost Pronto-like control.

Oh, and there's also URC. They strike a balance between the Harmony and the Pronto and reportedly make a good product. I'm not a fan of the button layouts on most of their remotes however, so I haven't tried one yet. I'm sure I'll buy one eventually.

- Collin

AndyN

11-21-06, 10:11 AM

The reason that PReP does not work with 720p-60 is that there is no 720i-60 format

ahh... sorry. The Montreal air has me much more relaxed and I'm just not thinking right. Thanks Josh.

Tolstoi

11-21-06, 10:16 AM

collinp,

the reason is that we (beta testers) got several interim revisions that did save the options between them, so it was impossible to know if the values are saved between 1.0 and 1.0.1

guys,

been beta testing the 1.0.1 release and I'm very pleased with it. I can't comment on the audio dropout fixes (not routing audio through the unit), but the new firmware is really excellent for me.

I still can't figure out the separate gamma functionality for RGB (why not have full 11 point calibration adjustment for each color, instead)?

Also, on PAL, there's still an overscan issue (the problem is in the source, but I need the ability to trim off the black lines asymetrically without losing data on each of the sides).

Discrete codes do work better and there's a definite feel that the unit is performing better. I only got one significant combing from 2:2 content (content sent to ABT for review).

Overall, I think they did a great job on this one. I hope the audio issues are behind us, and if so, that the VP30 folks get the fix soon too.

Good news, I will install it tonigh.

Tolstoi

11-21-06, 10:19 AM

ahh... sorry. The Montreal air has me much more relaxed and I'm just not thinking right. Thanks Josh.

Comeback in 2 months and you will change your mind :D

choddo2006

11-21-06, 10:21 AM

SJHT

11-21-06, 11:11 AM

collinp,

guys,

been beta testing the 1.0.1 release and I'm very pleased with it. I can't comment on the audio dropout fixes (not routing audio through the unit), but the new firmware is really excellent for me.

Well, I have had audio dropout and discrete issues since I got my VP30 and now VP50. Can't wait to install. Got my fingers crossed ;) SJ

Tolstoi

11-21-06, 11:21 AM

Hmm, while I agree with your analysis of the Pronto (although using hidden panels of commands makes re-use and building macros a complete breeze) it's not quite that big, about 1"x3"x5" and it has plenty of hard buttons (13+a 4way cursor) for quick access and it also charges in the cradle and has a backlight motion sensor. It doesn't fit in the hand quite as nicely but it's easily the best of both worlds if you can invest a bit of time setting it up.

My wife thinks the Pronto rocks and is always coming up with re-design demands :D

My main issue with the pronto is that it is not kid safe. Everybody at home was scared about the fragility of the TSU300 but we still managed to drop it twice and on the second occasion the display cracked. The harmony is roughly treated and was dropped a few times by my kids with now impact up to know. This is probably due to the TSU300 touch screen being made of glass instead of plastic.

stixx

11-21-06, 11:32 AM

choddo2006

11-21-06, 11:49 AM

My main issue with the pronto is that it is not kid safe. Everybody at home was scared about the fragility of the TSU300 but we still managed to drop it twice and on the second occasion the display cracked. The harmony is roughly treated and was dropped a few times by my kids with now impact up to know. This is probably due to the TSU300 touch screen being made of glass instead of plastic.
I know what you mean. But it was the wife that dropped my old black & white one and broke the backlight!

Luckily, my 3 year old son handles it like it's made of butterfly scales :) I've taught him well.

choddo2006

11-21-06, 11:49 AM

braindew

11-21-06, 12:04 PM

hey there - just received my VP50, which I will be hooking up this weekend. I also have a HD-A1 for which I am not 100% sure how to connect. is it is simple as 1080i out of the A1 into the 50 via HDMI?

Yes...as long as you make sure you activate that HDMI input. If you're not familiar with DVDO products...remember that whatever settings you change for that input will be unique fo that input (it is nice).

This brings up a point that I have been meaning to mention. Since the infamous A1 update that included TrueHD 5.1 decoding, the A1 HDMI has now become like my HD-DVR and always active. This has made my life a little more complicated with the "priorities" in the VP50. Now I have to make the HD-DVD the lowest priority and activate it via a macro when we watch HD-DVDs.

braindew

11-21-06, 12:21 PM

Hey am I in the wrong forum...or has this become a Remote forum takeover.

Anyway, I stayed up late last night to upgrade the VP50 and it has solved all of my worries with audio. Over the weekend, my family and I was trying to watch the latest round of Fox Blu-Rays with that pesky DTS-HD. What made matters worse, was that we 1st watched Fantastic Four and it worked fine...then none of the others worked (went back and FF didn't work later)...until eventually none of my HDMI sound inputs were working through VP50 (I go out via Toslink to my AVR). We spent hours debugging the setup (resets included) until eventually we knew VP50 was the culprit (we are both Engineers...so this amounted to trying everything under the sun). Well, my wife was at the verge of giving up on all the Blu-Ray/VP50/HDMI stuff...when this fix came through like a beautiful beacon of hope.

Thanks DVDO (Josh et, al.), for coming through for us. I have not heard a dropout yet (and we lived with the VP30 for a year)...and I love the PReP which helps with our lousy Scientific Atlanta DVR which forces 480p over HDMI (I bet thats what you designed it for). Keep up the good work...and know that my wife likes DVDO now for the support (that is worth it alone).

Axel

11-21-06, 12:24 PM

Wonderful news. I'll have to load it tonight. This is a critical feature for me as my Zensonic z500 networked media player's Sigma 8620 chip cannot ouput 480i over HDMI, requiring me to manually change the source output between HDMI and component depending on the file I'm watching..........major PIA. Now I'll be able to leave the z500 => vp50 connection on HDMI for all video sources.

cat6man;
Please post your findings. I am very interested in getting a network player myself (maybe a TViX M4000, once available) to replace my HTPC.
____
Axel

Axatax

11-21-06, 12:27 PM

I would love to be wrong and be able to get a unprocessed/vanilla 480i signal from my HTPC....

http://www.pixelmagicsystems.com/products/sdi/xcard_converter.htm

Axel

11-21-06, 12:31 PM

...
so you should now be able to do

480i->HTPC->480p->vp50/PrEP (480p->480i->480p->1080p) -> Ruby
......

Yep, PQ-wise this should yield the best results. Unfortunately, the TT GUI is more designed for higher resolutions (that's why I settled for 720p).

.....
You'd also want to switch off any kind of filtering the HTPC was doing in the process of producing its 480p output.

Actually I found adding still a bit of ffdshow processing helped with the overall PQ. I abandoned "resize" though; now it is just a tad of "sharpening" and "denoise".

I have not tried it with the new VP50 firmware and PReP. In any case my preferred route is to keep settings and tweaks as simple and straight forward as possible, i.e. leaving ffdshow, etc. out of the equation.

_____
Axel

Axel

11-21-06, 12:34 PM

http://www.pixelmagicsystems.com/products/sdi/xcard_converter.htm

Thanks for the link. Unfortunately, from what I have read here on the forum is that the VP50 (unlike other VP) is supposedly incompatible with this card - some polarity issue.

____
Axel

Axel

11-21-06, 12:50 PM

Thanks for the link. Unfortunately, from what I have read here on the forum is that the VP50 (unlike other VP) is supposedly incompatible with this card - some polarity issue.

____
Axel

Just found more info here (http://www.pixelmagicforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=793&highlight=dvdo)

if only DVDO made the polarity for SDI on the VP50 switchable....
____
Axel

cat6man

11-21-06, 12:56 PM

cat6man;
Please post your findings. I am very interested in getting a network player myself (maybe a TViX M4000, once available) to replace my HTPC.
____
Axel

well, there are lots of players out there (i've tried a few) and i think the z500 is the best of the lot. the brand changes to Ziova next month and two new players will be out in europe in Dec, rest of the world Jan. one new player is a rebranded z500 and the other is a z500 without the DVD player.

the one thing i'm hoping Ziova/Zensonic gets to in 2007 is a f/w upgrade that gives native pass-through over hdmi, i.e.

480i=>480p (for PReP)
720p=>720p
1080i=>1080i

as it stands, i won't have to change from component to hdmi and back but will still have to change resolution output. so far, no media player i'm aware of has a resolution pass-through

EricBergan

11-21-06, 12:58 PM

I think I understand what PReP does (reinterlaces but only if no scaling has occurred.) But I'm not sure I understand when it is really useful.

Clearly if you have a device that doesn't support 480i out over HDMI. But if I could get access to 480i (say through component) wouldn't I be better off sending the 480i to the VP-50, at least from a PQ standpoint?

I'm really unsure what 1080p PReP buys me - are there devices that start with a 1080i content, deinterlace and output 1080p? I thought Blu-Ray/HD-DVD were 1080p content to start with?

eric

choddo2006

11-21-06, 01:04 PM

Actually the current BluRay & HD-DVD players do 1080i out of the decoder chip then deinterlace to 1080p. I think generally they do an ok job though.

As for when it's useful; I want to use HDMI for everything from my SkyHD box but for SD it will only do 576p. I want to do that because the SD output from component is soft & nasty. I can and do use RGB over SCART for SD at the moment but that's more cables and an input used up.

And rumour has it next-gen SkyHD boxes will drop component support.

I can imagine there are plenty of other boxes with similar issues where what seems a simple solution doesn't work when you get into the detail.

cat6man

11-21-06, 01:04 PM

doseofrealta

11-21-06, 01:08 PM

Phalanx

11-21-06, 01:08 PM

Well, I have had audio dropout and discrete issues since I got my VP30 and now VP50. Can't wait to install. Got my fingers crossed ;) SJ
I installed the new firmware and tried for about an hour. So far ZERO audio drop-outs for both DVD and CD playback with HDMI audio routed from Oppo 970HD->VP50->SR8001. Even for the short period of usage, it is already a GREAT improvement from the frequent audio drop-outs I was getting prior to the firmware upgrade.

Tolstoi

11-21-06, 01:12 PM

Tolstoi

11-21-06, 01:16 PM

I installed the new firmware and tried for about an hour. So far ZERO audio drop-outs for both DVD and CD playback with HDMI audio routed from Oppo 970HD->VP50->SR8001. Even for the short period of usage, it is already a GREAT improvement from the frequent audio drop-outs I was getting prior to the firmware upgrade.

This is a good news.

EricBergan

11-21-06, 01:17 PM

The new Panasonic Blu-Ray player outputs 1080p/60 and the VP50 with PReP turned on works very well.

But I thought Blu-Ray movies were 1080p, so why would I want to interlace it and deinterlace it again?

eric

choddo2006

11-21-06, 01:19 PM

Because as I said, it doesn't read 1080p off the disk.

sspears

11-21-06, 01:39 PM

PReP does work on the 1080p60 output of the Panasonic BD-10 and it is impressive to watch with my HD test content, but it is best to send 1080i out of the BD-10.

Inside the Samsung and Panasonic it goes: Disc (1080p24) -> Decoder (1080i60) -> Video Processor chip (1080p60)

The VP50 is a lot better than either the Genesis Cortez and National/Marvell AVC2510 that is used in the two players.

If you are using either the Sony or Pioneer players, you want to output the native 1080p24. I don't believe the VP50 currently supports 1080p24 input, so will have a problem until support it added.

derekjsmith

11-21-06, 03:02 PM

stixx

11-21-06, 04:01 PM

why are you running 480p from your A1 to the 50? I thought 1080i from the A1 was the way to go.

EricBergan

11-21-06, 04:11 PM

big_marcelo

11-21-06, 04:22 PM

The Pronto NG gives you control over every aspect of your remote. You can and essentially must make all the screen layouts in Photoshop and customize the action of all the pressable areas on your screen. I love this level of control. Customization does have a serious learning curve for the novice, but once the remote is setup it can be very simple for a novice to use.

What I don't like about the Pronto is that it is basically a completely touchscreen remote. This is great for customizable interfaces, but terrible for something like a DVR. For control of a DVR you want a remote that you can pickup quickly and without looking know/feel where the important buttons are. The Pronto is also a pretty large remote by modern standards. It looks in photos like its about the size of PalmPilot. It's not. Its considerably larger, about the size of paperback novel.

The Harmony hardware, however, rocks. The ergonomics of the 890 are quite good. The directional control/volume/channel controls are right under you thumb when you pick it up. Just below that are the transport controls. It recharges in its cradle. It controls IR devices via RF. It even has a motion sensor that turns on the backlight when you pick it up. Very nice. The activity based control is very smooth and its smart state technology can track the power state and current input of your devices, so even those devices without discrete IR codes can be used in macros.

Programming the Harmony however is kind of a pain in the butt. The website integration is interesting because in theory the database is always being updated. However the database is not user contributed, but managed by Harmony so more obscure devices (like the VP50) are often incomplete in the database. Configuration is through countless forms and wizards. THe questions are useful for guiding a novice user, but really become an impediment for more seasoned users. The software also has some glaring omissions like lack of explicit macro support. Almost everything that can be macroed can be accomplished via some trick, though its not always obvious how to do so. Also the software lacks any way to enter hex codes if the codes aren't in the database. You can email pronto hex to customer support, but I've gotten very little response from them, particularly since the Logitech buy out. The remote however can learn codes from other remotes. I often enter discrete codes into my Pronto so that I can teach the Harmony a new code.

Overall, my wife and I prefer to use the Harmony over the Pronto. The Pronto gathers dust under the coffee table. I really wish Logitech would provide some sort of "advanced user" configuration option which gave almost Pronto-like control.

Oh, and there's also URC. They strike a balance between the Harmony and the Pronto and reportedly make a good product. I'm not a fan of the button layouts on most of their remotes however, so I haven't tried one yet. I'm sure I'll buy one eventually.

- Collin

I'm a big fan of my pronto TSU 3000 .... but I do wish it had some more hard buttons though .......

hmuller

11-21-06, 05:01 PM

The VP50 now passes multi channel PCM over HDMI. Before that multi PCM from the A1 was only being passed as 2 channel.

PReP processing from the A1 480p HDMI is very good, now I can run 48hz again for standard DVD. Now we need to get Toshiba to add a native res feature on the A1, so we can have the VP50 do all the work.

Nice job DVDO :)

I actually have a question about this as I have a Toshiba XE1 HD-DVD player on order and will hopefully be getting it soon. If I run HDMI to the VP and then coax to my amp (it has no HDMI inputs) what happens to the sound? Can it pass as multi-channel PCM to my amp or does it only pass two channel PCM. Can I also set up the HDMI to pass DD+ or other bitstream data out via coax using my VP as a straight audio switcher. My only other device is a SkyHD PVR but that only seems to pass 2 channel PCM on the HDMI output and DD is only passed via the toslink. That I believe is a software limit on the PVR that will hopefully be fixed soon.

Magic Hat

11-21-06, 05:09 PM

I love the picture watching BTV-recorded shows so much that I want the VP50
in my system for live TV as well, so I've pretty much decided on adding a Comcast
STB, like the MOT6xxx, as a channel changer connected to the vp50 via HDMI.

After doing a little research today, it seems the latest Comcast firmware 16.20 has broken the HDMI output in some systems. I don't know if the problem is just between the STB and certain devices or if all HDMI devices are trashed.

Is anyone running a MOT STB into their vp50 who can comment on whether or not the vp50 has a problem with the MOT STB?

(clarify: this is a MOT/Comcast problem apparently, NOT a vp50 problem, but I'd like to know if the problem manifests itself with the vp50)

cat6man,

I have a Motorola 3416 (16.20 Firmware) which I connect to the VP50 via HDMI and generally speaking, it works fine. However, the only issue I have *sometimes* is that when I rewind/skip/fast forward recorded content on the 3416 the audio drops. Most of the time the only way to restore the audio it is to cut the AC power to the VP50. Sometimes powering down/up my AVR restores audio too.

I don't get audio droputs from my DVD player however. Therefore this leads me to believe its the Comcast STB.

-Matt

oink

11-21-06, 05:42 PM

I don't believe the VP50 currently supports 1080p24 input, so will have a problem until support it added.

HD-SDI perhaps?? :)

dlm10541

11-21-06, 06:11 PM

I have a Moto 6412 and do have total loss of audio at times. The new FW is better than 1.0 in this regard and can generally be reset by changing to a different device input on the VP-50 remote and then back to the input you were using. The audio muting feature seems to help prevent the audio loss as well.

SA8300 boxes and satellite boxes also have some problems. While DVDO is working on a solution you can work around it by using a coax or optical connection for now leaving the HDMI for video only.

I point the finger not at DVDO who is trying for a solution nor at Motorola but I do blame the complexities of the HDMI world. If more manufacturers become as helpful as DVDO we may find a way through the quagmire.

choddo2006

11-21-06, 06:14 PM

I actually have a question about this as I have a Toshiba XE1 HD-DVD player on order and will hopefully be getting it soon. If I run HDMI to the VP and then coax to my amp (it has no HDMI inputs) what happens to the sound? Can it pass as multi-channel PCM to my amp or does it only pass two channel PCM. Can I also set up the HDMI to pass DD+ or other bitstream data out via coax using my VP as a straight audio switcher. My only other device is a SkyHD PVR but that only seems to pass 2 channel PCM on the HDMI output and DD is only passed via the toslink. That I believe is a software limit on the PVR that will hopefully be fixed soon.
SPDIF coax is limited to PCM stereo I believe, it doesn't have the bandwidth for multi channel.

ailean

11-21-06, 06:20 PM

After an evening of watching Lost season 3 in HD and some random SD from my pvr and media player I don't think there's been an audio dropout. :)

Prep seemed to help with some film based SD, will have to play some more.

The extra IR commands are now working, can switch profiles and letterbox again.

So far so good Josh! ;)

Jesswin

11-21-06, 06:43 PM

Has anybody used an Intel Mac running Parallels or Boot Camp to upgrade their VP30 or VP50?

Axatax

11-21-06, 07:06 PM

Has anybody used an Intel Mac running Parallels or Boot Camp to upgrade their VP30 or VP50?

You can do this natively by setting up the VP30 as a serial printer and using 'lpr' to send the file to the VP30. Someone posted more detailed info in one of the VP30 threads.

collinp

11-21-06, 08:02 PM

Has anybody used an Intel Mac running Parallels or Boot Camp to upgrade their VP30 or VP50?

I've updated my VP30 and now VP50 several times with Boot Camp on a MacBook Pro. Boot Camp is really just the setup utility and Mac drivers for Windows. Once it's up and running its a full fledged copy of Windows running on an Intel chipset. I haven't found anything that doesn't work under it yet. I imagine Parallels will be a bit more dicy as peripheral device support is reportedly more problematic since it needs to share control with the host OS.

- Collin

steviec

11-21-06, 09:31 PM

Josh and DVDO:
Thanks! for the great firmware upgrade(1.1)!
You guys continue to be the greatest and a model of what other companies should do with their customer service programs!

cat6man

11-21-06, 09:46 PM

cat6man,

I have a Motorola 3416 (16.20 Firmware) which I connect to the VP50 via HDMI and generally speaking, it works fine. However, the only issue I have *sometimes* is that when I rewind/skip/fast forward recorded content on the 3416 the audio drops. Most of the time the only way to restore the audio it is to cut the AC power to the VP50. Sometimes powering down/up my AVR restores audio too.

I don't get audio droputs from my DVD player however. Therefore this leads me to believe its the Comcast STB.

-Matt

Matt,
That is good news since it seems that the 16.20 HDMI problems may be specific to the MOT + {some hdmi devices} but not necessarily a problem with the vp50.

Most of the reports I've seen were video problems from the MOT via HDMI, not audio, but I guess HDMI is such a can of worms that nothing should surprise us anymore.

Thanks

derekjsmith

11-21-06, 10:10 PM

why are you running 480p from your A1 to the 50? I thought 1080i from the A1 was the way to go.

Yes 1080i for HD and 480i/p for standard DVD.

Yes the A1 can scale SD up to 1080i but that's what the VP50 is for. So for SD I set the A1 res to 480p and let the VP50 reinterlace/deinterlace and scale to 720p 48hz for my PJ.

big_marcelo

11-21-06, 10:53 PM

just upgraded to 1.01 .... 40 minutes on the clock .... about 10 minutes to input all previous display profiles, overscans based on input, output level, audio inputs, etc... not bad, I guess I'm getting used to this....

now, onto reprogramming my pronto to make use of the discrete codes.... :)

escon

11-21-06, 11:03 PM

Axel

11-21-06, 11:17 PM

Have your stripes/white line(s) gone?

Not for me ...... I'll need to call DVDO tomorrow.

Other than that, the upgrade itself went smooth, just took long, as anticipated.

IR discrete codes (display profiles) now seem to work. However I needed to re-learn some of the codes as the VP50 is now more sensitive to commands from my MX-3000, e.g. jumps a few steps instead of just one using the navigation keys. It did not do it before.

I also briefly tried PReP with DVD material from my HTPC (at various res.) and my Tosh A1 (at 480p over HDMI). I failed to be impressed thus far, but need to do more testing.

____
Axel

big_marcelo

11-22-06, 12:06 AM

Have your stripes/white line(s) gone?

Hey Phil,

So far I've been working with the pronto ... now that the remote codes work, I've work some macros to turn 4:3 NLS in one keystroke.... and then back to 16:9 .... excellent..... took a bit of trial and error, but at least I have my one-button-NLS like my TV... and I can keep the VP50 in 1:1 mode all the time now...

I still prefer the NLS on the TV, but rather keep it on 1:1 mode all the time for WAF ease of use...

I have just disabled the orbiter 2 to check for the whilte line (I didn't have the blue stripe, just the white line)... watched for about 5 mins... didn't notice anything yet... will keep a watch for it...

However I've decided to leave on orbiter 2 (after the test period), since I can't notice a degredation in PQ and the Panel still shows as receiving 1:1 (which most other panels don't allow this.....) ....

So for me, the Discrete codes have been an excellent bug fix..... :)

[edit]

after 15 mins, no sign of the white line, which I used to see 3-5 times per minute at least with the orbiter 2 disabled ... now, it appears to be 'ALL GOOD' ... :)

TallCoolOne

11-22-06, 12:47 AM

ok so after the update to 1.01 i have not experienced any audio issues as of yet, and most of my discrete codes are working. What isn't working is Input Aspect presets 2 and 4 (1 and 3 work and i dont have codes for 5 through 9). My IAR preset 2 button selects preset 3, and 4 does nothing. Now the problem could be with the VP50 or perhaps the Logitech Harmony support guys entered them wrong when I asked them to add them to my device database. Are the IAR preset 2 and 4 discrete codes working for others? if so i'll email logitech to get them to fix mine...
thanks!

Jesswin

11-22-06, 02:36 AM

I've updated my VP30 and now VP50 several times with Boot Camp on a MacBook Pro. Boot Camp is really just the setup utility and Mac drivers for Windows. Once it's up and running its a full fledged copy of Windows running on an Intel chipset. I haven't found anything that doesn't work under it yet. I imagine Parallels will be a bit more dicy as peripheral device support is reportedly more problematic since it needs to share control with the host OS.

- Collin

Collin, thanks. I've been using Virtual PC successfully on my QuickSilver G4 with my VP30 and just wanted to know for the future. I'm glad to know that I won't have problems in the future when I upgrade my computer.

Has the new software fixed the Dolby Digital problem with the HR10-250? I have been having the same problem.

collinp

11-22-06, 02:49 AM

Collin, thanks. I've been using Virtual PC successfully on my QuickSilver G4 with my VP30 and just wanted to know for the future. I'm glad to know that I won't have problems in the future when I upgrade my computer.

Has the new software fixed the Dolby Digital problem with the HR10-250? I have been having the same problem.

So far so good. No audio dropouts yet and I haven't run into the Dolby Digital loss issue yet on the TiVos. It's still too early to declare victory, but the results are encouraging so far.

- Collin

danielo

11-22-06, 03:01 AM

Hey Phil,
after 15 mins, no sign of the white line, which I used to see 3-5 times per minute at least with the orbiter 2 disabled ... now, it appears to be 'ALL GOOD' ... :)

This is good news, If its fixed then they forgot to put it in the release notes. Maybe Josh/beta-tester can confirm this is indeed fixed and not just lucky since the timing changed a little in the new layout of the fpga ?

Daniel.

big_marcelo

11-22-06, 03:51 AM

the IR codes working properly are awesome.... quick to change deinterlacing modes, NLS 4:3, standard 16:9 .... have used the lot already today .... great stuff!!

Gard

11-22-06, 04:17 AM

Dale Adams

11-22-06, 06:30 AM

I also briefly tried PReP with DVD material from my HTPC (at various res.) and my Tosh A1 (at 480p over HDMI). I failed to be impressed thus far, but need to do more testing.Note that if you're using film-based DVD material and your PC or DVD player does a decent job of cadence detection, you really shouldn't see much (or any) difference using PReP. All PReP does is extract the original field from an already deinterlaced signal and re-deinterlaces it. There may not be any significant difference when feeding the VP50 a 480p signal and using PReP. It all depends on the type of source and the quality of the deinterlacing in that source.

- Dale Adams

ailean

11-22-06, 07:44 AM

Note that if you're using film-based DVD material and your PC or DVD player does a decent job of cadence detection, you really shouldn't see much (or any) difference using PReP. All PReP does is extract the original field from an already deinterlaced signal and re-deinterlaces it. There may not be any significant difference when feeding the VP50 a 480p signal and using PReP. It all depends on the type of source and the quality of the deinterlacing in that source.

- Dale Adams

Watched some of Disney's The Rescuers last night on SD satellite (576p via HDMI) and I think I spotted some PReP action, the edges of some characters were so sharp you could just about see the pencil strokes. Switching PReP off seemed to make it less defined (using the same broadcom chip that I think is in the Tosh HDDVD players).

Tolstoi

11-22-06, 10:33 AM

I did the upgrade and it went smoothly. I try PReP but didn't have time to setup a proper test scenario. Will try again tonight.

ninja.rogue

11-22-06, 10:33 AM

mdrew

11-22-06, 12:27 PM

AndreYew

11-22-06, 12:36 PM

Mdrew,

Sorry you ran into problems upgrading your VP50. I ran into the same kinds of problems upgrading my VP30, and the problem was that I was using a USB serial port not recommended by DVDO (one without the FTDI chipset). I fixed the problem by uploading using a computer with a built-in serial port. Maybe that will help you out?

--Andre

Gary Murrell

11-22-06, 12:44 PM

Glad to see you guys get the firmware update, enjoy everthing fixed ;)

-Gary

fubarduck

11-22-06, 01:23 PM

If there's anyone to encounter problems with a firmware upgrade, it's me. I just lost a receiver last Friday performing a firmware upgrade. Now my VP 50 is sitting on my desk, with an error message on the display. Damn......I used the cable supplied, followed the instructions to a letter and about 30 minutes into the download I get this error. Tried re-loading it, and the only difference was I get the error message in about 30 seconds.

I have a phone message and email into DVDO to see what the hell happened.

message to self.........no more DIY firmware upgrades.

I had the same problem; it took me about five tries to get the firmware to load completely without an error in between. Guess what I did the last time that made it work? I disabled my wireless network card.

I know it sounds weird, but try disabling any network cards in your Control Panel in addition to closing all other programs and I bet you can complete the update. It seems the Serial Port, as old as it is, requires full concentration from your PC.

TallCoolOne

11-22-06, 02:09 PM

The IAR Preset1-4 are working on the VP30, using Harmony 885.

May be entered wrong by support, but the presets should be in the template profile for both VP30 and VP50 by now. Not sure how they handle this.

hmm..they're not in there for me, i even tried removing and re-adding the device. Maybe I should just add it as a VP30 instead...I wish Harmony let you add your own discrete codes, why cant they just open that up and let you do what you want instead of having a control trip over what can go in...it's a great remote once it's setup...too bad for some rather poor UI for the software to set it up though.

aaronwt

11-22-06, 02:24 PM

I had the same problem; it took me about five tries to get the firmware to load completely without an error in between. Guess what I did the last time that made it work? I disabled my wireless network card.

I know it sounds weird, but try disabling any network cards in your Control Panel in addition to closing all other programs and I bet you can complete the update. It seems the Serial Port, as old as it is, requires full concentration from your PC.
I never had any problems with the VP30. I could go do other things on the PC while the firmware was uploaded in the background. I never had any errors. Although I haven't tried the VP50 update yet.

ailean

11-22-06, 04:19 PM

If there's anyone to encounter problems with a firmware upgrade, it's me. I just lost a receiver last Friday performing a firmware upgrade. Now my VP 50 is sitting on my desk, with an error message on the display. Damn......I used the cable supplied, followed the instructions to a letter and about 30 minutes into the download I get this error. Tried re-loading it, and the only difference was I get the error message in about 30 seconds.

I have a phone message and email into DVDO to see what the hell happened.

message to self.........no more DIY firmware upgrades.

Try setting the rate to 19200 on the PC, this is the default on the VPx0 now so often it gets set to this when updates fail.

Also try Barrys' util to do the upload, it's a lot more user friendly.

Some folks have had better luck with a different PC, if the usb->serial adapter had been in the box as advertised then of course these kind of issues may have been reduced for the VP50. ;)

collinp

11-22-06, 04:38 PM

If there's anyone to encounter problems with a firmware upgrade, it's me. I just lost a receiver last Friday performing a firmware upgrade. Now my VP 50 is sitting on my desk, with an error message on the display. Damn......I used the cable supplied, followed the instructions to a letter and about 30 minutes into the download I get this error. Tried re-loading it, and the only difference was I get the error message in about 30 seconds.

I have a phone message and email into DVDO to see what the hell happened.

message to self.........no more DIY firmware upgrades.

One thing to check is which version of the FTDI driver is installed. Use the one from the DVDO site only. Not the newer one that Window seems to keep reinstalling behind your back.

- Collin

jschefdog

11-22-06, 04:41 PM

Someone reported this earlier, but wanted to comfirm. I can also pass 5.1 channel PCM through the VP50 using HDMI after the 1.01 firmware upgrade. With 1.00 and previous VP30 versions I got 5.1 channel PCM but it had a high frequency tone on all the channels which made it unusable.

My other components are:

Toshiba HD-A1 HD DVD Player
Yamaha HTR-5990 AVR
Sony HS-51 Projector

They are connected as follows, all HDMI.

HD-A1 ---> VP50 ---> HTR-5990 ---> HS-51

At first I thought it didn't work because I only got 2 channel PCM at the receiver. I checked the HD-A1 settings and HDMI output was set to PCM. I tried changing it to Auto and then I got 5.1 channel PCM at the receiver. Changed it back to PCM and got 2 channels again. Changed it back to Auto and got 5.1. So the moral is to use Auto. Weird, but HDMI behavior often is.

I didn't have time to watch a movie so can't comment on audio dropouts or the complete loss of audio over HDMI that occurred occasionally with 1.00. Hopefully these are fixed as well.

Thanks to DVDO for fixing this issue. I can finally route my HD DVD through the VP50 along with my other sources.

LonelyDodger

11-22-06, 04:42 PM

jschefdog

11-22-06, 04:56 PM

In case that I am using a multichannel HDMI audio input, and I desire to have it routed to my HDMI receiver, which is the way to go?
Shall I use HDMI output and have it as an input to my receiver or what?
thank you

There are two options that I'm aware of.

Source |
Source |---> VP50 ---> Receiver ---> Display
Source |

Source |
Source |---> Receiver ---> VP50 ---> Display
Source |

I think the first would be the most common configuration, but it may depend on your equipment and what you want to do.

I use the first one because I want to use the VP50 as the source switcher and take advantage of the input specific video settings the VP50 offers.

Others have said they want to take advantage of input specific audio settings on their receiver, so they might go with option 2 and use their receiver as the source switcher. Some people also used this setup to avoid the audio issues which are discussed in this thread, but hopefully these have been fixed with firmware 1.01.

danielo

11-22-06, 05:31 PM

Just updated last night - watched three movies and a TV show with NO DROP-OUTS! WEEEEE! Seemed that the HDMI synced-up a wee faster too.

Flint - I'm curious as to how your issues have fared... Did they fix it for you too?

Cheers!

-LD :cool:

Let us all think about the fact that you did a 1 hour upgrade, watched _3_ movies and a tv show in one night :) Respect !!

Daniel.

escon

11-22-06, 07:28 PM

OK, my 2 cents worth on the Vs 1.01 upgrade. No problems getting it across at 56Kbaud - I have an "old" notebook with a proper serial port. Yes, as others have reported it takes 40 min even at this baud rate.

So far so good, but as one other poster has hinted at, the VP50 now does not seem to be able to continuously accept a data input stream from the Remote. For example, when I went to set the Unlock rate from 59.94Hz back to 50Hz, it would only decrement from just a half a Hz or so, to a max of around one Hz, before stopping. I then had to let go of the down button and press it again for the next "chunk". It took nearly 5 min as a consequence to get it down to 50Hz. V1.00 had no such problems and in fact, the count down/up was intelligently handled by an ever increasing rate of change, the longer the button was held down for. It therefore took only just a few seconds to get from 59.94 to 50Hz.

choddo2006

11-22-06, 08:20 PM

I just chose 50Hz lock, but I know what you mean.

escon

11-22-06, 08:28 PM

I just chose 50Hz lock, but I know what you mean.Yes, I have that setting too for most of my other input sources as my display will natively lock onto both 50 and 60Hz. I use the 50Hz unlock 50Hz for the VCR/inbuilt tuner. Allows the wife to channel surf as if she is watching an all analog system. :D

Axel

11-22-06, 08:30 PM

escon

11-22-06, 08:33 PM

Did you also try a hard reset. Unplug and Hold down the top 2 buttons whilst plugging it back in again?

TWD

11-22-06, 08:36 PM

So far so good, but as one other poster has hinted at, the VP50 now does not seem to be able to continuously accept a data input stream from the Remote. For example, when I went to set the Unlock rate from 59.94Hz back to 50Hz, it would only decrement from just a half a Hz or so, to a max of around one Hz, before stopping. I then had to let go of the down button and press it again for the next "chunk". It took nearly 5 min as a consequence to get it down to 50Hz. V1.00 had no such problems and in fact, the count down/up was intelligently handled by an ever increasing rate of change, the longer the button was held down for. It therefore took only just a few seconds to get from 59.94 to 50Hz.

escon

I just sent an e-mail to beta@dvdo.com describing a similar
"menu navagation" issue I am having. It only seems to occur if the HDMI input is active.

mskreis

11-22-06, 08:46 PM

escon

11-22-06, 08:50 PM

escon

I just sent an e-mail to beta@dvdo.com describing a similar
"menu navagation" issue I am having. It only seems to occur if the HDMI input is active.
You're dead right TWD. Just tried it again when the selected source input was other than any of the HDMI inputs and it works normally - just as I described it did in Vs 1.00. This time, I had active inputs going into 3 of the HDMI inputs (non HDCP DVI type), but had the Video 1 input as the selected source. Last time, I obviously must have been on one of the HDMI inputs. Will email this post to DVDO.

Axel

11-22-06, 08:50 PM

Did you also try a hard reset. Unplug and Hold down the top 2 buttons whilst plugging it back in again?

That did it!!! Thanks much, Phil!!

The white line issue is still there, but at least I get a clear picture again.
_____
Axel

ninja.rogue

11-22-06, 08:56 PM

There are two options that I'm aware of.

Source |
Source |---> VP50 ---> Receiver ---> Display
Source |

Source |
Source |---> Receiver ---> VP50 ---> Display
Source |

I think the first would be the most common configuration, but it may depend on your equipment and what you want to do.

I use the first one because I want to use the VP50 as the source switcher and take advantage of the input specific video settings the VP50 offers.

Others have said they want to take advantage of input specific audio settings on their receiver, so they might go with option 2 and use their receiver as the source switcher. Some people also used this setup to avoid the audio issues which are discussed in this thread, but hopefully these have been fixed with firmware 1.01.

Thank you, I will give your first option a try.
I will need all 4 HDMI inputs, 3 component inputs and 1 s-video input, and will use all analog and digital audio inputs.
But will get into my Denon 4806 with just one HDMI and one coax cable.
And this is good to me.

mdrew

11-22-06, 09:29 PM

Well it's about ten hours later and still no luck downloading. 14 attempts and counting.

For clarification...

I'm using the serial cable, not the USB cable. I don't have wireless, I have a LAN system throughout the house with hard wired Linksys router. I disabled the Internet and LAN anyway though. I disabled Nortons, I disabled HP instant update, Quick time, and anything else I could think of. I even carried my wireless mouse and keyboard to the other end of the house. I do have a USB / RS232 cable, so I tried that. With its supplied driver and the driver on the DVDO web sight. No luck, obviously.

Aaron and I have had numerous conversations while I watch this silly thing download. We've gotten to know each other I think. Hell, he may even come to AK as he's got an open invitation to crash in one the spare rooms.....LOL...

The download is about 7.2 megs, and I've got as far as 6.95 megs, then I get the error message.

In summery, DVDO is sending me another VP 50 with the firmware installed. I've exhausted my limit of patience.

Like I said earlier, I'm just lucky with electronics and PC's..... I hate the bastards and they hate me. It's just an understanding between us.

...........NO more firmware updates for me.....nope, no-way. I know when I've met my match.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone. I'm gunna have a few shots of bourbon.

big_marcelo

11-22-06, 10:25 PM

A member asked me a question about buying the VP50 from Lenexpo, but his email box is too full ... so I'm replying here...

Hi, I bought it before it was released, however they sent to me as soon as it was released.

I had to ask Mike, from Lenexpo, if they had shipped to me already, then he sent me the details & tracking number - I don't think the process is automated at their end - however they are very prompt to responding to emails, etc...

I bought my HD+, VP30 and VP50 from them .... they are pretty good - you should also check AVS also, great service and price too ...

Cheers,

Marcelo

derekjsmith

11-22-06, 10:27 PM

Have you confirmed that TrueHD soundtracks are playing correctly with this setup? If so, I think I'll give it a try.

Yes it was the first thing I tried. Loaded up Troy and selected TrueHD. The VP50 passed all 5.1 PCM channels correctly over HDMI to my receiver. Before you only got some of the channels not all 6.

collinp

11-22-06, 11:10 PM

I have run now into a major issue with the VP50: I am getting a completely garbled picture from all inputs I have tried (all 4 HDMI and component). VP50 OSD is perfectly clear however. I also verified that the setup without the VP50 still works properly: sources (HTPC, Tosh A1), cables, and projector.
I already unplugged the VP50 as well as reset it to default – no luck.
I have left another voicemail with DVDO Tech Support, still hoping someone will call me back. (My guess is they are also getting ready for turkey day, so I consider my chances as rather slim.
To top it off, we have some 20 people coming over upcoming weekend and I wanted to show off my HT……)

Any idea what I could try next? Is there a reset button that I have not found yet?
_____
Axel

This happens about 50% of the time if I pull AC while the unit is running. Turning the VP50 off before pulling wall power is the workaround. I've run into this several times when unplugging the VP50 to fix audio issues. Such fun to reenter all your defaults.

- Collin

flint350

11-22-06, 11:51 PM

Just updated last night - watched three movies and a TV show with NO DROP-OUTS! WEEEEE! Seemed that the HDMI synced-up a wee faster too.

Flint - I'm curious as to how your issues have fared... Did they fix it for you too?

Cheers!

-LD :cool:

I had company for a few days and just got to installing the new f/w tonight. It took the predicted 40 minutes, but went OK and rebooted as normal. I have yet to try it out though. But I do have a few netflix movies to watch in the next couple of days, so that should tell the tale. I'm hopeful.

JoeFinn

11-23-06, 01:18 AM

escon

11-23-06, 04:20 AM

You're dead right TWD. Just tried it again when the selected source input was other than any of the HDMI inputs and it works normally - just as I described it did in Vs 1.00. This time, I had active inputs going into 3 of the HDMI inputs (non HDCP DVI type), but had the Video 1 input as the selected source. Last time, I obviously must have been on one of the HDMI inputs. Will email this post to DVDO.
I'm afraid that the plot is thickening. I just tried several other settings that can require you holding down one of the remote buttons for a while, like brightness, contrast settings and the like. Even though I am NOT using one of the HDMI inputs, trying to set these parameters by holding down say the up or down arrow button on the Remote, also causes "stuttering" badly. It takes anything up to 8 or more tries to cover the full range. Anyone else suffering from this problem too? I'd like to know before reaching for the hard rest option.

Edit.

And, I've just had my first video blackout again (and as before, during time slip or chase play), so that gremlin is still with us. Audio thus far OK, but it's still very early days for that.

peteS

11-23-06, 05:10 AM

I'm afraid that the plot is thickening. I just tried several other settings that can require you holding down one of the remote buttons for a while, like brightness, contrast settings and the like. Even though I am NOT using one of the HDMI inputs, trying to set these parameters by holding down say the up or down arrow button on the Remote, also causes "stuttering" badly. It takes anything up to 8 or more tries to cover the full range. Anyone else suffering from this problem too? I'd like to know before reaching for the hard rest option.

Edit.

And, I've just had my first video blackout again (and as before, during time slip or chase play), so that gremlin is still with us. Audio thus far OK, but it's still very early days for that.

Yes - I think this is a general problem. I saw the same thing with adjusting LipSync delay - and I don't use any HDMI at all....

Gard

11-23-06, 06:38 AM

Hmm... I have 895 but I cannot find the discretes from either Vp30 nor VP50??

I sent them to Harmony support and they put them in my profile. Why they don't just put them in the template(s) i don't know.

big_marcelo

11-23-06, 07:07 AM

I'm afraid that the plot is thickening. I just tried several other settings that can require you holding down one of the remote buttons for a while, like brightness, contrast settings and the like. Even though I am NOT using one of the HDMI inputs, trying to set these parameters by holding down say the up or down arrow button on the Remote, also causes "stuttering" badly. It takes anything up to 8 or more tries to cover the full range. Anyone else suffering from this problem too? I'd like to know before reaching for the hard rest option.

Edit.

And, I've just had my first video blackout again (and as before, during time slip or chase play), so that gremlin is still with us. Audio thus far OK, but it's still very early days for that.

sorry to hear phil ....

the only thing I noticed on mine is that some of my commands from the pronto sometimes don't register on the VP50, and I have to press it twice.... not sure if its the VP50 or the pronto... but the pronto works the same on all other pieces of equipment.... ??????

also, has anyone heard anything about the noise reduction option?

Cheers,

Marcelo

choddo2006

11-23-06, 07:38 AM

I sent them to Harmony support and they put them in my profile. Why they don't just put them in the template(s) i don't know.
See, this is exactly why Prontos are better ;) I think I might be a control freak (no pun intended)

I have to say, post-this-update, I'm seriously happy with the vp50, it does absolutely everything I need it to right now and it does it very well indeed. Only remaining thing I suppose is I'd like to see what a C2 can do in terms of NR on some of the lower bitrate SD channels we get.

big_marcelo

11-23-06, 07:49 AM

See, this is exactly why Prontos are better ;) I think I might be a control freak (no pun intended)

I have to say, post-this-update, I'm seriously happy with the vp50, it does absolutely everything I need it to right now and it does it very well indeed. Only remaining thing I suppose is I'd like to see what a C2 can do in terms of NR on some of the lower bitrate SD channels we get.

I'm hoping that NR would be released soon on the VP50, and that could help on Sky/Foxtel bit-rate starved sat channels....

and yap... I love my pronto too .... :)

ailean

11-23-06, 08:12 AM

I'm hoping that NR would be released soon on the VP50, and that could help on Sky/Foxtel bit-rate starved sat channels....

and yap... I love my pronto too .... :)

Dudes please remember that (AFAIR) NO ONE has mentioned, demoed or promised any NR features from DVDO for the VP50.

It maybe a 'feature request' by us but I've not seen any indication that it would be done or is even being developed for this box (or any future box).

So don't be too expecting! ;)

Back to IR, yes I've noticed this too, however if this is some fallout from the reworking to make descrit work consistently without a power cycle then I'd rather have this bug for a bit (fixing both would be ideal thou ;) ).

Now that (touch wood) audio seems to be sorted I can finish rewiring my gear and reprogramming the pronto (again :rolleyes: ) to get back to the bliss of macro heaven and one remote control to rule them all... :)

cat6man

11-23-06, 09:09 AM

Yes - I think this is a general problem. I saw the same thing with adjusting LipSync delay - and I don't use any HDMI at all....

same issue here with a prontoprong remote and adjusting the LipSync delay

Gard

11-23-06, 09:26 AM

TWD

11-23-06, 10:48 AM

mskreis

11-23-06, 11:00 AM

Yes it was the first thing I tried. Loaded up Troy and selected TrueHD. The VP50 passed all 5.1 PCM channels correctly over HDMI to my receiver. Before you only got some of the channels not all 6.

Great news. Do you also need to keep HDMI out on the A1 set to Auto and not PCM?

jlib

11-23-06, 01:50 PM

The VP50 manual says that RGB and YCbCr are digital outputs. I recently had my DLP calibrated and the calibrator set the VP-50 to RGB. It looks fantastic. I tried it on all three VP color space options and I really can't tell which one looks better. How should it be set? Is there a good tutorial some place that explains the differences?It depends what your display/projector is doing internally. My Samsung DLP uses an 8-bit RGB bus internally and all other formats are converted immediately to 8 bit RGB by the HDMI receiver. So in my case there's no need to run any other format than RGB. Most of the newer 10 bit sets are using 10bit YCbCr 4:2:2 buses as does the YP50 internally.

RGB and 8 bit YCbCr 4:4:4 are very close in terms of bits per pixel and chroma resolution, they're just two different ways of representing picture information. On the other hand 10 bit YCbCr 4:2:2 has more bits per pixel which will lead to reduced banding/false contouring, but this is at the expense of chroma resolution. The eye however is less sensitive to chroma resolution and most sources are actually encoded with even lower chroma resolution than 4:2:2. DVD is 4:2:0 for instance. Though there is by no means consensus on this, I personally feel that 10 bit YCbCr 4:2:2 is the "best" of the current digital formats, but only if your display takes advantage of it.I could not determine what my display (Sony KDL-46V2500) uses internally from its specs but when I turn on the gray ramp test from the VP50, under YCbCr 4:2:2 color space it is distinctly banded while both RGB and YCbCr 4:2:2 are relatively much smoother. So, I'm thinking that this is a quick way to test which setting is best for the display used.

collinp

11-23-06, 04:02 PM

Dudes please remember that (AFAIR) NO ONE has mentioned, demoed or promised any NR features from DVDO for the VP50.

It maybe a 'feature request' by us but I've not seen any indication that it would be done or is even being developed for this box (or any future box).

So don't be too expecting! ;)

ABT did mention detail enhancement and noise reduction in the VRS press release (http://www.anchorbaytech.com/news/VRS-launch.html). Since then there has been now word from ABT on the subject.

As you state there is no guarantee that such technology will be available for the VP50. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was only available via a new processor model.

- Collin

collinp

11-23-06, 04:18 PM

I've been on vacation this week and watched a good amount of programming on the 1.01 firmware, including some long films like King Kong EE. I am happy to report that I have not had a single audio dropout. Also I have not yet run into the Dolby Digital audio loss on the TiVos. And to top it all off, my deinterlacing and aspect ratio discretes are still working.

I have run into a few UI weirdnesses with the new firmware. The info screen often comes up blank. This can usually be fixed by doing some other UI operation like curtain or menu and then going back to the info screen. The other slightly more annoying problem I've had is submenus getting stuck open in the UI. This can lead to some strange menu navigation issues. Interestingly the menus were not getting stuck open when I first updated the unit. Only a few days later did this start to occur. I haven't yet tried pulling AC to see if this fixes the problem.

The UI glitches are a little annoying, but they're eclipsed by the audio performance and the IR discrete fixes. They're a godsend after a year of waiting. Only time will tell if they're completely fixed, but for certain matters are greatly improved in my system.

- Collin

bradesp

11-23-06, 05:16 PM

collinp

11-23-06, 05:31 PM

Guys,

Now that the firmware issue may be clearing, I'm nearing a decision to pull the trigger. That said, I have several operational questions regarding the VP-50:

1st: My Pioneer ELITE 710 (CRT HDTV) only has one single component input and is rated up to 540P and / or 1080i - I know running 1080i would be straightforward, but what about 540P?

You should be able to send 540p or 1080i out of the VP50. You won't be gaining too much of an advantage with the VP50 if you're sending an interlaced signal (1080i) and 540p is a bit low res to be desirable as well.

2nd: How do you guys calibrate the video for each input into the VP-50? Since there will be a single output / component from the VP-50 to my TV, how do you adjust the picture for each input device? Doe the VP-50 actually give you this control??

Each input has individual brightness, contrast, color, etc. controls. The VP50 also generates test patterns to make setting these controls easy.

Lastly, if I wanted to output one since component video, but also wanted a simultaenous S-Video feed at SD can I do this? I'd like to feed an SD feed to a DVD Recorder and/or PC HTPC.

No, the VP50 does not have an S-Video out.

- Collin

sspears

11-23-06, 09:45 PM

For those experiencing UI issues, I hope you are emailing ABT and not just posting here.

Issues I have encountered:

-Info Page comes up blank
-When collapsing a segment (picture control as an example) it will not fully collapse. I have to expand another segment, like output setup.
-Somtimes it jumps to another control. Eg I may select yes on a yes / no option and instead it jumps to another control and changes it.

I have tried with and w/o the serial cable connected and no change.

escon

11-23-06, 09:51 PM

Yes, it always seems that you go 3 steps forward and 2 steps backwards with any new FW update. I've also noticed that the sound takes a lot longer to come in (is muted for longer) after for example doing a FW on your DVD or PVR. As I had very few problems (compared to this release) with Vs 1.00, I might just go back to it, particularly as I am not using any of the newly added features/fixes anyhow (was hoping for PReP to do 720p, but that's not supported). Let's see how long DVDO will take to get this lot sorted out.

It seems a bit strange to me BTW, that none of this was picked up by any of the beta testers. Were some changes made between the last release they saw and the final one DVDO put on their website?

vfrjim

11-23-06, 10:22 PM

I have a question about including a "discrete code" for a preset resolution since I plan to use my VP50 to 3 different displays(via splitter). How is this accomplished?

Thanks

TWD

11-23-06, 10:41 PM

I e-mailed them on the UI. I also had the infamous fluttering audio a couple of times. I e-mailed them on that also.

escon

11-23-06, 11:00 PM

I e-mailed them on the UI. I also had the infamous fluttering audio a couple of times. I e-mailed them on that also.
It's intersting how time changes things. I can now only move the numbers one at a time on items like brightness and the like. I turn mine off when not in use - that may explain why some of us are getting different results on this issue. I haven't seen the bad issues Spears described for example.

sspears

11-24-06, 12:34 AM

It seems a bit strange to me BTW, that none of this was picked up by any of the beta testers.

This is still a beta release, just a wider audience.

escon

11-24-06, 12:42 AM

This is still a beta release, just a wider audience.
Thanks - yes we have to keep that in mind. I note from my email notification of this post that it was reported by the beta testers which is heartening.

speters

11-24-06, 12:59 AM

I have noticed that my test patterns are messed up since the firmware upgrade. The geometry test pattern only shows one half of the pattern, so that I only see two boxes and one vertical line. If I pull up the brightness/contrast pattern I only see the brightness pattern on the left and the contrast on the right.
Also, it appears that there was one problem that has not yet been resolved. That being a problem with a 1080i input, underscan and image cropping. If I use the HDnet test pattern and pull up the overscan test pattern, as soon as I start to use underscan the image starts to get stretched slightly. Then if I get it up to around 31 and adjust the H shift to -4, I can get the sides to about 2% overscan. When the V Shift is left at 0 the top is at 2%, but the bottom is as 8. If I then try to adjust the V shift to move the pattern up, the pattern will move up but it is now cut off at 8% and I only see black below that. If I change the underscan to 11 then change the v shift to -6, I can get the bottom to 4% and the top to 5%. If I change the input to 720p, 480p everything works as normal. I was using the VP30 before this and I did not have this problem, it worked as it should. I spoke with DVDO about this when I first recieved my VP50, which was right after they first started to ship the VP50's out, and they said that it was something they where working on. I am a little disappointed that it still has not been fixed. Just so you know I am using the VP50 with the Mits 65813 RPTV. I have this problem with all 1080i signals. It doesn't' matter if it is coming from my cablebox, dvhs or hd dvd.

escon

11-24-06, 01:15 AM

Yep, concur. My test patterns are also corrupted - even the first one that fits the screen exactly (1:1 papping on my display) has now overscanned on the left and others are also corrupted. Rolling back to Vs 1.00 as I type. This is purely a personal decision and not to berate the fixes and new features of Vs 1.01. It's just, as I mentioned in an earlier post, that none of the new features/fixes really affect me, so I may as well go back to what worked almost perfectly for me.

Philip Tan

11-24-06, 05:26 AM

I have run now into a major issue with the VP50: I am getting a completely garbled picture from all inputs I have tried (all 4 HDMI and component). VP50 OSD is perfectly clear however. I also verified that the setup without the VP50 still works properly: sources (HTPC, Tosh A1), cables, and projector.
I already unplugged the VP50 as well as reset it to default – no luck.
I have left another voicemail with DVDO Tech Support, still hoping someone will call me back. (My guess is they are also getting ready for turkey day, so I consider my chances as rather slim.
To top it off, we have some 20 people coming over upcoming weekend and I wanted to show off my HT……)

Any idea what I could try next? Is there a reset button that I have not found yet?
_____
Axel

I'm also getting this after the upgrade. And yes a hard reset makes it ok. But, this beta release is making reentering my settings a nuisance each time I power it on coz I get garbled picture. I've moved the power cord to an unswitched outlet and hope this will help, I'll have to check again.

Anyone know what causes this fuzzy vertical lines when power on :confused:

choddo2006

11-24-06, 06:56 AM

collinp

11-24-06, 07:01 AM

I'm also getting this after the upgrade. And yes a hard reset makes it ok. But, this beta release is making reentering my settings a nuisance each time I power it on coz I get garbled picture. I've moved the power cord to an unswitched outlet and hope this will help, I'll have to check again.

Anyone know what causes this fuzzy vertical lines when power on :confused:

Pulling AC power while the unit is running does it for me pretty frequently. I had this problem with 1.0 and haven't tried to reproduce it on 1.0.1 yet.

I bet moving it off the siwtched outlet will solve the problem for you.

- Collin

collinp

11-24-06, 07:09 AM

escon

11-24-06, 07:11 AM

test patterns work fine for me - that's not just a settings thing on yours then?
No, after rolling back to Vs 1.00, they were all OK again. :). I guess we'll just have to wait and see what more comes up over the next few weeks or so. Our natural inclination is always to be impressed at first, often because we WANT to be, but then, over time, we discover faults and become a little disappointed. But we learn to live with at least some of them. ;) . It was the long muting time after Fast Forwaring or skipping on the PVR that was actually the tipping point for me to revert to the "old and tried" version. No doubt this and other issues with the new FW will be solved in time, but I'll wait until they're sorted out first. Done my bit of beta testing :) .

escon

11-24-06, 07:20 AM

I've got no problems with the test patterns on my setup. 720p out over HDMI.- Collin
FWIW, I run mine on 1280 x 768 out of the HDMI to a DVI port - non HDCP input. I don't think that that has any bearing on the problem though. Although, having said that, and as I said in an earlier post, the first test pattern, which normally fits perfectly in my screen area as I'm 1:1 pixel mapped to my display, was overscanning on the left side. I always do a quick check on all of the patterns as soon as I've done an upgrade, and they were all OK to start with just a couple of days ago. Something had "drifted", most likely due to some memory leakage, which also seemed to be affecting how it received commands from the remote.

big_marcelo

11-24-06, 08:18 AM

No, after rolling back to Vs 1.00, they were all OK again. :). I guess we'll just have to wait and see what more comes up over the next few weeks or so. Our natural inclination is always to be impressed at first, often because we WANT to be, but then, over time, we discover faults and become a little disappointed. But we learn to live with at least some of them. ;) . It was the long muting time after Fast Forwaring or skipping on the PVR that was actually the tipping point for me to revert to the "old and tried" version. No doubt this and other issues with the new FW will be solved in time, but I'll wait until they're sorted out first. Done my bit of beta testing :) .

I can live with the delay in IR reponse ... since its the only issue for me.... a fair trade off to have discrete IR working in my case..... yap, nothing is perfect anymore.... but its better then watching without a VP, that's for sure!

Likvid

11-24-06, 04:38 PM

I can't set output level in VP50 between PC and Video, the option is greyed out.

Anything i missed or need to enable?

collinp

11-24-06, 04:52 PM

I can't set output level in VP50 between PC and Video, the option is greyed out.

Anything i missed or need to enable?

Weird. I assume you are using a digital out? You could try flipping on advanced user mode in the configuration menu, but I don't think that should matter.

- Collin

big_marcelo

11-24-06, 05:07 PM

I can't set output level in VP50 between PC and Video, the option is greyed out.

Anything i missed or need to enable?

try changing colour space... RBG, 422, 444 ...

jesseasi

11-24-06, 09:04 PM

Just got my new VP50 today. The TV I plan on using this with is not here yet so I have been testing it out on an older Viewsonic VPW450HD. The native resolution of the Viewsonic is 1024x1024.

The 1st thing I did was upgrade to the newest firmware - that went through without a hitch.

Here is where I am running into trouble. Maybe someone here can help me out.

When I set the output resolution to 1024x1024 the screen is way off center. There does not seem to be any way to adjust this. I have not been able to center the picture at all.

Also - on all output settings I get fuzzy vertical lines in my screen. I have tried unplugging the unit, doing a factory reset - nothing seems to work.

I am testing this with a directv HR10-250 Tivo using the DVI connection.

Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

John P.

11-24-06, 10:48 PM

When I set the output resolution to 1024x1024 the screen is way off center. There does not seem to be any way to adjust this. I have not been able to center the picture at all.

Also - on all output settings I get fuzzy vertical lines in my screen.

Others may know more about this than me, but I can at least give you a suggestion of what it may be:

Your TV uses ALiS technology, and as far as I know, this means that it doesn't really have 1024x1024 physical pixels, but more like 1024x512 - well, not really, but ALiS panels don't address the vertical pixels as other "normal" panels do anyway.
So maybe that's why it's off center. I don't really know what the VP50 does when you tell it to output 1024x1024; if it has some smart way of knowing that it's an ALiS panel, but I doubt it, and would guess it's trying to address all 1024x1024 pixels in one go, so to speak.

By all means; this is just something I think it may be.

The vertical lines you're seeing could be related to the problem, or it could be the hardware glitch that some owners have reported, in which case you'll have to have the unit replaced under warranty.

Others here will probably chime in with other, and quite possibly better theories about your problem. Just thought I'd give it a shot. :)

big_marcelo

11-24-06, 11:29 PM

jesseasi

11-25-06, 01:53 AM

The vertical lines you're seeing could be related to the problem, or it could be the hardware glitch that some owners have reported, in which case you'll have to have the unit replaced under warranty.

Others here will probably chime in with other, and quite possibly better theories about your problem. Just thought I'd give it a shot. :)

Well, I switched over to component video. Same deal, I am getting fuzzy vertical lines all throughout my picture. The strange thing is if I bring up any on screen menu, the lines don't appear in the menu. That section is crystal clear.

Anyone else with any ideas? Could my firmware upgrade somehow did not go through?

oink

11-25-06, 02:05 AM

jesseasi

11-25-06, 03:23 AM

Well, I switched over to component video. Same deal, I am getting fuzzy vertical lines all throughout my picture. The strange thing is if I bring up any on screen menu, the lines don't appear in the menu. That section is crystal clear.

Anyone else with any ideas? Could my firmware upgrade somehow did not go through?

Ok, getting a little frustrated... I tried using the DVI out and component video out on my HR10-250 Tivo. I tried downgrading to the 1.00 version firmware. Still getting vertical lines.

Here is a picture.
http://www.wrigleybum.com/avsforum/P1010145_resize.JPG

Click Here to see full size image (http://www.wrigleybum.com/avsforum/P1010145.JPG)

Here is a close up - you can see the fuzzy vertical lines.

http://www.wrigleybum.com/avsforum/P1010146_resize.JPG
Click Here to see full size image (http://www.wrigleybum.com/avsforum/P1010146.JPG)

Please don't tell me I have a bad VP50. I am praying it is something simple. Maybe I need to try a different outlet? Line conditioner?

Any ideas? If I do have to RMA this unit (I just got it today), how fast does DVDO handle replacements?

mark haflich

11-25-06, 03:47 AM

My guess is that your unit is defective. Your dealer should be able to get you an advance replacement.

Where are you located? Perhaps some member witha good unit could help test whether your unit is really defective.

ailean

11-25-06, 04:57 AM

Did you try 1080i OUT from the VP50? As sugested it could be display related.

thoth

11-25-06, 08:49 AM

choddo2006

11-25-06, 09:06 AM

Better MPEG decoder in the Panny?

jesseasi - set your output to 1080i and also, use the test patterns (vertical lines and geometry in particular) to make sure your vp50 signal to the screen is at a res the screen can handle.

and you can set the position & size if you turn on Advanced User setup and then push right on the 1080i format option, it will let you specificy more detailed timings.

DVDO are great with warranty replacements, very quick.

Sparky66

11-25-06, 09:36 AM

Here is a copy of the issues I sent to the DVDO Beta Test Program in regards to the 1.01 firmware upgrade.

"As a side note : I have a Philips DTR7200 (Australian model release) HD Set Top Box (STB) which is connected via HDMI and outputs 1080i with RGB colorspace to the VP50. I output video from the VP50 via HDMI at 720p 50hz lock / 60hz lock depending on source, as my 720p DLP TV accepts both frequencies.

Audio Issue yeah, did I just say audio issues ?? :(

Prior to 1.01 Beta upgrade, I was running the STB’s audio ( both PCM and Dolby Digital ) to input via HDMI to the VP50, with great results.

Since the firmware upgrade, the VP50 refuses to lock on to any stable audio via HDMI to the Philips STB . I get audio for about 2 seconds and then no audio for 2 Seconds, audio for 2 secs and then no audio for 2 secs …………….. (in an endless loop / cycle). As a consequence, I’m no longer able to select audio via HDMI and have thus resorted to using digital optical or digital coax for audio input on the VP50.

Something has changed via the HDMI Audio Inputs, that has allowed the Philips STB to have this issue, while other components (like my Arcam DV29 Hdmi DVD player) have no apparent issues whatsoever.

As noted in the 1.01 Beta release notes, the issue (I believe) originates in one of these two changes :

" - Added HDMI Output Audio Mute routine to avoid “pops” and noise bursts while audio format is being determined.
- Changed HDMI output configuration routine to remove potential of audio output lock-up in the HDMI transmitter under certain conditions."

Remote Control Response

Prior to 1.01 Beta upgrade, the remote control command signals were smooth and quite responsive. Also when holding down a button such as adjusting contrast, brightness , framerate , etc…. the adjustment would increase or decrease until the button was released. Now with the upgrade you need to continually press and release button to make the same adjustments – very slow and cumbersome exercise.

Noticed also, was how erratic it was when manoeuvring through the menus and you select a certain setting, only to be thrown down to an adjacent menu item instead. Again something has changed since the 1.00 production firmware.
On a positive note: all discrete codes now work on both firmware releases . Negative note -original release had fluid smooth signal response but now seems slightly jerky and unstable."

TWD

11-25-06, 09:44 AM

Jesseasi,

Do you have the same problem without the VP-50 in the loop?

aaronwt

11-25-06, 12:02 PM

When will version 1.01 come out of Beta to the final release?

Gary Murrell

11-25-06, 12:48 PM

Ok, getting a little frustrated... I tried using the DVI out and component video out on my HR10-250 Tivo. I tried downgrading to the 1.00 version firmware. Still getting vertical lines.

Here is a picture.
http://www.wrigleybum.com/avsforum/P1010145_resize.JPG

Click Here to see full size image (http://www.wrigleybum.com/avsforum/P1010145.JPG)

Here is a close up - you can see the fuzzy vertical lines.

http://www.wrigleybum.com/avsforum/P1010146_resize.JPG
Click Here to see full size image (http://www.wrigleybum.com/avsforum/P1010146.JPG)

Please don't tell me I have a bad VP50. I am praying it is something simple. Maybe I need to try a different outlet? Line conditioner?

Any ideas? If I do have to RMA this unit (I just got it today), how fast does DVDO handle replacements?

bad unit sir, it does happen, rarely but when it's you it sucks bad

DVDO is the best, give them a quick email or call

-Gary

jesseasi

11-25-06, 01:21 PM

Did you try 1080i OUT from the VP50? As sugested it could be display related.

Tried every resolution possible. All have the lines.

Jesseasi,

Do you have the same problem without the VP-50 in the loop?

No problems with the DVDO removed from the setup.

I tried the test patterns and the images are perfect. No lines in any of the test patterns.

I have to assume the unit is bad, hopefully I can overnight mine to them and get a replacement in a day or two.

I sent an email to the guys at DVDO, hopefully I can get this returned and a new unit on the way.

oink

11-25-06, 03:14 PM

Better MPEG decoder in the Panny?

That would be my guess.

I hate to dump the Oppo (it has been rock-solid, nary a glitch).
But it was only $150.
The best deal ever for a DVD player. ;)

TallCoolOne

11-25-06, 03:33 PM

I have been using the Oppo 480i HDMI into my VP50 (which has been great).
For the heck of it, I sent a DVD at 480p HDMI signal from the new Panny BD player into the VP.
Very impressive...much better than the Oppo IMO.

that's interesting, are you sending a 480p signal from the Panny from the same DVD source as the Oppo (i.e. not a BR movie)? I'm sure you probably are but just making sure :)

If so I guess the Panny is just much better than the Oppo, because I can't tell the diff really between 480i and 480p/PReP from the same DVD player...I need to do more thorough tests though.

oink

11-25-06, 03:50 PM

that's interesting, are you sending a 480p signal from the Panny from the same DVD source as the Oppo (i.e. not a BR movie)? I'm sure you probably are but just making sure :)

Yes, I used Monsters Inc.
More solid image, better colors, more detail.

I'll do more testing with other DVDs and give a report. ;)

Larry J

11-25-06, 03:54 PM

Who is using PReP?

Tonite, for the 1st time, I gave it a test-drive.

I have been using the Oppo 480i HDMI into my VP50 (which has been great).
For the heck of it, I sent a DVD at 480p HDMI signal from the new Panny BD player into the VP.
Very impressive...much better than the Oppo IMO.

Has anyone else had similiar results?

I use a HTPC and had always used 1280x720 out to the DVDO, which is 1:1 for my desktop, and then of course 720p to the projector. So I decided to try 480p just to be doing it, not expecting much, but its actually a better picture.

TT GUI doesn't look all that great natually but I am getting video thats clearer. Aspect ratio acts different in TT but I'll just have to set it up. I still use ffdshow some also.

cal87

11-25-06, 04:04 PM

Does anyone know of a better setup guide, explaining in more detail all of the advanced settings (better than the one provided by DVDO)? If one is available for one of the previous models, this would suffice.

patja

11-25-06, 07:13 PM

Axel

11-25-06, 07:15 PM

I use a HTPC and had always used 1280x720 out to the DVDO, which is 1:1 for my desktop, and then of course 720p to the projector. So I decided to try 480p just to be doing it, not expecting much, but its actually a better picture.

TT GUI doesn't look all that great natually but I am getting video thats clearer. Aspect ratio acts different in TT but I'll just have to set it up. I still use ffdshow some also.

Not to get off topic to much, but what decoder s/w do you use with your HTPC? Any ffdshow in addition by any chance?
_____
Axel

choddo2006

11-25-06, 07:16 PM

Patja, switch User mode to Advanced.

TWD

11-25-06, 09:15 PM

vfrjim

11-25-06, 11:28 PM

I just picked up a 37" Sharp LCD display at Costco this weekend. It is native 1366x768, but neither of the out of the box VP50 1366x768 resolutions work with it. I was going to try to setup a custom User output format, but other than H-Shift and V-Shift, all of the remaining custom resolution settings are disabled. Am I missing something obvious that is preventing me from setting up a custom output resolution?

if you turn on Advanced User setup then they are not greyed out

Could someone help me? Can you enter a discrete code to select a monitor profile directly so you do not need to cycle thru menus? How is this done?

Thanks

Larry J

11-25-06, 11:38 PM

Not to get off topic to much, but what decoder s/w do you use with your HTPC? Any ffdshow in addition by any chance?
_____
Axel

I'm currently using a ATI video card and Theatertek NVIDIA Decoder, if I understand what you're asking. Using VMR9 also. I do still use ffdshow but will probably adjust something in it slightly different now. Right now still using resize times 2, even though not sure it really does much, but it don't hurt anything either. Also blur & NR. Also some dscaler sharping but will probably readjust that also.

Overall I just get a better picture than when I was running 1280x720 into the VP50.

collinp

11-25-06, 11:42 PM

if you turn on Advanced User setup then they are not greyed out

Could someone help me? Can you enter a discrete code to select a monitor profile directly so you do not need to cycle thru menus? How is this done?

Thanks

Check out the VP30 IR generator utility on the DVDO website. It will allow you to generate Pronto Hex codes for all sorts of things. I'm pretty certain there are discretes for display profiles in there. I can't be certain, because I don't use profiles and am too lazy to boot back into Windows to check.

- Collin

Gino AUS

11-26-06, 01:54 AM

Can someone explain to me why one would use a locked display rate/frequency versus unlocked?

oink

11-26-06, 02:06 AM

Also I can't see any difference with PRep set to ON or OFF. I have tried it with my Panasonic BR player and my Marantz 9600 and the D*HD-DVR.

Are you sending a 480p signal from the Panny?

PRep only works with 480p, 576p, and 1080p IIRC.

ninja.rogue

11-26-06, 02:54 AM

Can someone explain to me why one would use a locked display rate/frequency versus unlocked?

Because your display wouldn't accept the locked signal.
i.e. your display only accepts 60hz signal, so when you have a 50hz signal input, you will want your VP50 to change from locked (50/75) to unlocked (59.94).
that's why.
Cheers
Paolo

vfrjim

11-26-06, 08:02 AM

Check out the VP30 IR generator utility on the DVDO website. It will allow you to generate Pronto Hex codes for all sorts of things. I'm pretty certain there are discretes for display profiles in there. I can't be certain, because I don't use profiles and am too lazy to boot back into Windows to check.

- Collin

Thanks,

But since I do not use a Pronto remote and use a Home Theatre Master Remote (MX-850) , I would need a .ccf file to use my universal browser to teach my remote those codes, would someone be able to post a .ccf file for monitor profiles 1, 2 and 3? Or is there another way?

Thanks

Will_Morr

11-26-06, 08:37 AM

Here is another problem with the beta load that happened to me. Even though I have the Auto Aspect Ratio set to ON, the Frame AR and Active AR are still highlighted and can be set.

I sent this to DVDO.

Also I can't see any difference with PRep set to ON or OFF. I have tried it with my Panasonic BR player and my Marantz 9600 and the D*HD-DVR.

I haven't tried it yet, but I'm not expecting to see a difference using the Marantz 9600. Prep will correct bad deinterlacing which is something the Marantz does not suffer from.

Axel

11-26-06, 08:43 AM

Thanks,

But since I do not use a Pronto remote and use a Home Theatre Master Remote (MX-850) , I would need a .ccf file to use my universal browser to teach my remote those codes, would someone be able to post a .ccf file for monitor profiles 1, 2 and 3? Or is there another way?

Thanks

The editor for my MX-3000 allowed me to import those hex codes through the integrated "universal browser" - that's how I got the discrete codes I needed. Does the editor for your MX-850 have a similar option?

Can you import MX-3000 files? If so I could send you what I got, if interested.
____
Axel

collinp

11-26-06, 08:58 AM

Thanks,

But since I do not use a Pronto remote and use a Home Theatre Master Remote (MX-850) , I would need a .ccf file to use my universal browser to teach my remote those codes, would someone be able to post a .ccf file for monitor profiles 1, 2 and 3? Or is there another way?

Thanks

My understanding is that the Home Theater Master remote software can import files saved or exported by ProntoEdit. And ProntoEdit is a free download which runs without a Pronto. I haven't tried this myself though.

This seems complicated, but as a Harmony user I actually own a Pronto NG for little else than to teach the Harmony codes. You really need some way to enter Pronto hex in this hobby.

- Collin

vfrjim

11-26-06, 09:05 AM

The editor for my MX-3000 allowed me to import those hex codes through the integrated "universal browser" - that's how I got the discrete codes I needed. Does the editor for your MX-850 have a similar option?

Can you import MX-3000 files? If so I could send you what I got, if interested.
____
Axel

Thanks, I checked out the universal browser and now I see that you can enter the HEX codes manually, I never saw that function (or needed it for that matter).

Jim

drhankz

11-26-06, 09:14 AM

Thanks, I checked out the universal browser and now I see that you can enter the HEX codes manually, I never saw that function (or needed it for that matter).

Jim

You can go to this page ---

http://www.dvdo.com/faq/IRcodes-isvp30.html

And Copy and Paste the Codes you need into your SOFTWARE.

Axel

11-26-06, 09:21 AM

You can go to this page ---

http://www.dvdo.com/faq/IRcodes-isvp30.html

And Copy and Paste the Codes you need into your SOFTWARE.

... or Copy and Paste from Barry Gordon's editor (link also on the website), if you need a more comprehensive set of codes. In any case no need to enter them in manually.

____
Axel

vfrjim

11-26-06, 10:23 AM

Well, I tried the hex codes from DVDO's website and used the universal browser, but they do not work, it when I press the button for that profile, the symbol on my remote shows that it is sending the code, but it last a LONG time(like it is hanging up) and it does not change the profile. BUT even worst, my VP50 just died, I even tried a reboot to default and it has all vertical lines all over the screen :( , menus are clear and crisp but ALL video is garbled up with lines.....

Axel

11-26-06, 10:41 AM

... BUT even worst, my VP50 just died, I even tried a reboot to default and it has all vertical lines all over the screen :( , menus are clear and crisp but ALL video is garbled up with lines.....

Jim;
It sounds a bit like what happened to me/my VP50 just a few days ago. (I also posted about it in this thread.) Long story short, a hard reset fixed it. Have you tried that yet?
_____
Axel

vfrjim

11-26-06, 10:45 AM

The only reset I know is thru the menus and reboot to defaults, is there another way? Because that did not fix it and I am ready to remove it from my rack to ship it back and thanks.

Jim

choddo2006

11-26-06, 10:49 AM

The only reset I know is thru the menus and reboot to defaults, is there another way? Because that did not fix it and I am ready to remove it from my rack to ship it back and thanks.

Jim
plug power in holding down menu & exit I think it is

Axel

11-26-06, 10:52 AM

plug power in holding down menu & exit I think it is

As choddo said....
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8969696&&#post8969696

You will loose all your settings, though.....
____
Axel

aaronwt

11-26-06, 10:56 AM

Just pull the plug and it will reboot and will keep all of your settings. When you hold down the menu button it is the same as doing it in the menu. Just pull the power cable, wait a few seconds and plug it back in and it will reboot without losing the settings.

Axel

11-26-06, 11:05 AM

..... When you hold down the menu button it is the same as doing it in the menu......

Hmmm, resetting the unit via the menu or only "unplugging/plugging back in" did not do it for me. I had to unplug and hold down the top 2 buttons whilst plugging it back in again.

_____
Axel

aaronwt

11-26-06, 11:25 AM

I guess it doesn't work for everyone then. It worked for me on the VP30 and the VP50.

vfrjim

11-26-06, 12:00 PM

Well, that worked, no more lines. Thank you.

Could I ask a favor to anyone that could send me a .ccf file to select profiles 1, 2 and 3 . I would really appreciate it.

vfrjim @ hotmail . com

Thanks in advance!

choddo2006

11-26-06, 12:09 PM

How do you want it, just a blank panel with 3 buttons?

Hmm just got the codes off the DVDO site and while a couple of them seemed to work, DP3 seemed to change the input instead.

I'm going to try barrygordon's utility instead.

vfrjim

11-26-06, 12:22 PM

How do you want it, just a blank panel with 3 buttons?

Yes please, since I found out that my software that included HEX edit was released prematurely and when I did a update on my programming software, they removed that function. They said it was a beta that slipped in by accidend, no I know why it was a beta, it did not work for me...

Thanks for doing this for me.

Jim

choddo2006

11-26-06, 12:30 PM

You could just download prontoedit and do it yourself of course ;)

But I'll carry on trying to fix these codes :)

ok try this
http://www.choddo.co.uk/vp30.ccf

should have 4 buttons on a panel (among a load of others) saying "DP1, DP2, DP3, DP4"

And does anyone know why ProntoEditNG changes the last 0001 of DVDO's discretes to 0064 when you save the button? I had to download ProntoEdit4 to get this to work.

Barrygordon, your utility kept closing itself down on this machine as it has no COM ports :( so I couldn't do the IR thing.

Axel

11-26-06, 01:09 PM

.....
Barrygordon, your utility kept closing itself down on this machine as it has no COM ports :( so I couldn't do the IR thing.

I had the same issue with the "full blown" utility a while back. The VP30IR Generator from here (http://www.dvdo.com/faq/faq_setup.php) however has been stable. In any case it would be great if Barry Gordon could implement a fix in his excellent utility.
____
Axel

barrygordon

11-26-06, 02:34 PM

Hi, Its Barry Gordon

there is a new version of the utility on my web site. It takes care of that problem. There is a new ini file entry in the system section (it is documented in the manual and the revision notes on my web site (www.the-gordons.net). The entry is of the form "iScan Connected=False" (with out the quotes). This tells the program not to bother with looking for com ports, there is no VPxx connected. It then just brings up the IR generator function. On older versions an entry such as "Model=*VP50" (with out the quotes, but note the asterisk before the model name) did the same thing

choddo2006

11-26-06, 02:47 PM

Or, in other words, "RTFM Chods" ;)

Thanks for the pointer!

barrygordon

11-26-06, 03:46 PM

Yes, but I generally say it with more class:

"Every man has the wit to know and the will to learn, but the key to knowledge is the open book"

cat6man

11-26-06, 04:56 PM

ok try this
http://www.choddo.co.uk/vp30.ccf

should have 4 buttons on a panel (among a load of others) saying "DP1, DP2, DP3, DP4"

my prontoprong editor couldn't open the ccf file

choddo2006

11-26-06, 06:12 PM

Hmm, although I saved it in ProntoEdit4, I just tried it in NG and it imported it fine?

Darian

11-26-06, 07:21 PM

Even better is to take the Hex codes and paste them in where you need them.

choddo2006

11-26-06, 07:24 PM

Yeah I'm not really sure why he needs a CCF but there you go, just trying to be helpful :)

flyingvee

11-26-06, 08:11 PM

Can someone explain to me why one would use a locked display rate/frequency versus unlocked?

You may have to do a search of this, or the VP30 thread - I forget which one, but Dale had a very succinct explanation of why one would chose one over the other. Unfortuneatly, I don't fully remember the answer, and don't want to garble it for you. :o - but I do recall that there were situations where one or the other could be best for you. Sorry I can't be of more help, but there is a reason...

Josh@dvdo

11-26-06, 08:26 PM

Can someone explain to me why one would use a locked display rate/frequency versus unlocked?

http://www.dvdo.com/faq/faq_isvp50.php#faq13

Dale's post became one of our FAQs...

Abbas

11-26-06, 08:53 PM

Does the VP50 pass thru a 1080p with the new software release? I managed to order a PS3.

fubarduck

11-26-06, 09:16 PM

Does the VP50 pass thru a 1080p with the new software release? I managed to order a PS3.

It will "work" and display the signal, but due to forced cadence detection on Progressive sources there is a 3-frame input lag on video games. According to ABT, this will be resolved in a future firmware update.

As long as the lag doesn't bother you, it will work fine until the new software update!

vfrjim

11-26-06, 09:55 PM

I didn't know about prontoedit, but you mentioned it and I ended up getting it to work, I do appreciate your help.

DVDO, please update the response time on the IR, it is WAY too sensitive after the 1.01 update and is agrivating when going though the menus.

Also, still getting static when using a "stereo" source (looks like there is no mute circuit on this audio input).

Also, please allow a 768P input, still getting a "blue screen" when a PC is connected to the VP50 with a 1280x768 resolution.

Thanks,

Jim

Gino AUS

11-26-06, 11:38 PM

Because your display wouldn't accept the locked signal.
i.e. your display only accepts 60hz signal, so when you have a 50hz signal input, you will want your VP50 to change from locked (50/75) to unlocked (59.94).
that's why.
Cheers
Paolo

So if my display will accept any signal... it is better to use locked right?

Gino AUS

11-26-06, 11:44 PM

http://www.dvdo.com/faq/faq_isvp50.php#faq13

Dale's post became one of our FAQs...

Thanks for that... all crystal clear now :)

sspears

11-27-06, 12:15 AM

Vfrjim,

Did you email DVDO directly? If not, please do so.

escon

11-27-06, 01:44 AM

Vfrjim,

Did you email DVDO directly? If not, please do so.
Josh, if you're listening, would it be possible for a response from DVDO (even an automated one would be OK), to let you (us) know that email has been received? At the moment you're never quite sure if its landed in the right place and not somewhere in cyberspace. Tanks.

choddo2006

11-27-06, 03:38 AM

It will "work" and display the signal, but due to forced cadence detection on Progressive sources there is a 3-frame input lag on video games. According to ABT, this will be resolved in a future firmware update.

As long as the lag doesn't bother you, it will work fine until the new software update!
That's ok, I can only assume he wasn't planning on there being any actual games for it until way beyond when the next firmware comes out ;)

Can always use 1080i until the firmware update anyway. OH ... hang on...

Actually, a serious (and slightly off-topic) question - if the ps3 won't scale 720p games to 1080i, will it scale them to 1080p?

escon

11-27-06, 03:48 AM

.....Also, please allow a 768P input, still getting a "blue screen" when a PC is connected to the VP50 with a 1280x768 resolution.
Thanks,

Jim
I'll second that. Strange, but I can actually get it to lock onto 1280 x 768p. It takes a bit if "fiddling" with my HD Snazio Media Player, but I can eventually get it to lock on, even though it says "Unknown source". But, when I power down the Snazio and then back up again, the VP50 refuses to lock on again. I'd like it to work on that input res, as then there is absolutely no scaling between the Snazio and my display - just gets rid of that little bit of scaling that I currently have with 1024 x 768p. I'll send this off to DVDO as well and see what they have to say.

choddo2006

11-27-06, 04:49 AM

ailean

11-27-06, 06:16 AM

I don't quite get that - surely the content on the Snazio isn't 1280x768? So there's some scaling going on there... so would it not make sense to output at the native res of the content? Or doesn't it allow that?
I think it's to do with these media players not auto switching to the native res of the file currently playing so to do that they have to go into the menus and change it for every file. :rolleyes:

Most of the content on my HD Mediabox is from DVDs and this device does at least auto switch between 50 and 60 Hz output (480p & 576p when set to SD output mode). With the aid of PReP I can now let the VP50 do all the work on that signal.

I do also on my box have the IR macros setup on the Pronto to switch between all the common SD/HD output reses so I can change to the correct mode when watching some HD content but as I don't download shows/films there's only a few trailers/samples on there.

Native pass thru would still be handy to me for switching a PC thru the VP50 thou.

escon

11-27-06, 06:21 AM

I don't quite get that - surely the content on the Snazio isn't 1280x768? So there's some scaling going on there... so would it not make sense to output at the native res of the content? Or doesn't it allow that?
Yes, for all but jpg (and the like) files (photos) you're right. So, when playing back 720p avi files, it's scaling. Likewise when playing an SD DVD, its 576i of course. And so on. Unfortunately, the Snazio doesn't auto res, so you have to select one resolution - I don't want to manually be changing it all the time. Its DVI output to which I connect to, cannot do 576i, so no go there either even if I wanted to. But, I have an Oppo 971H on SDI, so that's the one for SD DVDs.

The Snazio is pretty good at scaling though - it uses the Sigma EM8620 chipset. Its de-interlacing is pretty ordinary at best, which is why I'd like the VP50 to be able to PReP at 768p. ;). But, to come back to your question, with photos rendered at the exact resolution you nominate, there is a visible difference on very fine detail when the VP50 scales from 1024 to 1280. Viewing slides is like viewing extreme HD when you have excellent source material - every dot is defined and scaling on fine text for example is clearly visible. So yep, I'm after that nirvana - but isn't that what we're all about here? :) .

collinp

11-27-06, 06:49 AM

So I've been running the 1.0.1 firmware for about a week now. Due to the Thanksgiving break the VP50 has gotten a lot of use. For me this firmware solves some very annoying issues, though it does seem to introduce a few minor problems.

Issues resolved :
- The audio dropouts where the audio goes silent for a second or less and then comes back. The brief audio glitches seem to be resolved for me. I have not had one all week. For me they used to occur about once an hour on all inputs. I'm willing to declare this one fixed.
- The "stops responding to discrete IR codes" issue where the unit won't respond to the discrete IR codes after a fwe days of use, seems to be resolved. The unit is responding to discrete aspect ratio and deinterlacer setting codes even after a week of heavy use. Sweet. It might be a little early to declare success, but I think it's fixed.

Issues not (fully) resolved:
- The TiVo Dolby Digital audio loss issue. This is when the VP50 stops passing Dolby Digital from the HD DirecTiVo or HD CableCard TiVo occassionally. This used to happen within a day or two of use, sometimes a couple time per evening. This time it took almost a week. Also previously I used to have to pull A/C power from the unit to get Dolby Digital back. This time switching to a different input and then back to the TiVo input was enough to bring Dolby Digital back.

New issues :
- IR responsiveness. This is pretty widely reported on this thread, but holding down a button on the remote to increase a setting by a large amount only works sporadically. You end up hitting a button rapidly instead of just holding down the button in this case.
- OSD menu collapsing. It seems easy to get the OSD menu into a weird state where a collapsed menu is still expanded on screen. Eventually the menu will close, but it causes some strange navigation problems.

All in all, this is a must have update for me. The audio glitch fix and the stops responding to IR codes fix are absolute must haves for me. I would love to see the TiVo issue completely resolved but it is improved. The new issues are minor as they only affect setup time for me.

- Collin

oferlaor

11-27-06, 11:19 AM

flyingvee

11-27-06, 11:23 AM

Actually, a serious (and slightly off-topic) question - if the ps3 won't scale 720p games to 1080i, will it scale them to 1080p?

afaik, the ps3 will only display games at their native rate - no scaling. If the game is encoded in multiple resolutions, you would have the choice; but the big bummer now is that the "hot" game, R:Fall of Man is a 720p game - so for all of us with 1080i crts, the game must be downrezzed to 480p.

Rumours are out that this "may" be fixed in a firmware update, but I would expect that from Sony a couple days after the heat death of the universe. I don't see the bother for us tho - just feed it into your VPx0, and get what you want out. Sounds like this oversight by Sony could actually sell a few more scalers.

Josh@dvdo

11-27-06, 12:01 PM

The Snazio is pretty good at scaling though - it uses the Sigma EM8620 chipset. Its de-interlacing is pretty ordinary at best, which is why I'd like the VP50 to be able to PReP at 768p. ;).

Just to be perfectly clear, there is no 768i format so PReP can do nothing with a 768p signal.

patja

11-27-06, 12:21 PM

I have also observed the OSD menu lag described by collinp, and the loss of HR10-250 HDMI audio.

I also frequently see no data when I hit the "info" button. It will show the labels for the input and output formats, but no data is displayed.

collinp

11-27-06, 01:19 PM

About the IR issue, where do you see this, in video timing parameters?

haven't seen the OSD menu issue before (not on the VP50, that is). This sort of thing is usually repeatable. Do you have a sequence of operations that gets this to happen?

Adjusting audio delay seems sluggish for me.

The OSD issues are repeatable for me. Though they weren't occurring immediately after the update so it may be a "time since reboot" type of issue.

Despite the problems I am very happy with this update.

Cheers,
Collin

SJHT

11-27-06, 02:16 PM

Anyone actually inputting a PS3 into the VP50 (via HDMI)? Does the audio come out the digital connection (coax/optical) in 5.1? Thanks. SJ

choddo2006

11-27-06, 02:32 PM

I've seen the strangly rebuilding menu thing. It seemed to happen when I was trying out different deinterlacing and re-setting up my output format.

I just tried to do it again and can't get it to happen. I've pulled the power since I saw it, don't know if that's a factor.

barrygordon

11-27-06, 03:14 PM

To those using my DVDO utility. Please provide me with any feedback (positive - makes me feel good) or criticism (negative - helps me to improve) or suggestions for changes improvements. I know about the save/restore issues of all settings and have that on my list; but as stated before, I need DVDO to do some preparatory firmware changes.

I am interested if the IR codes work properly (I believe they do), and if not, which ones give a problem. I generate the code timing patterns algorithmically from engineering data. They are not learned codes. If some codes are marginal (sometimes work, sometimes not) that is probably not a code pattern problem; especially if some codes work reliably . If they never work, it might be a code pattern problem

Axel

11-27-06, 04:06 PM

Barry;
Any chance you can include the codes for PReP on/off?

Also what would be a bit more user-friendly is if one did not have to change the .ini file for when the VP is not connected. Is it possible to deactivate it via a checkbox or similar within the application?

Other than that, I think you did an excellent job!! Congrats and thank you very much for your contribution! This utility helped me lot in programming my remote control.
_____
Axel

big_marcelo

11-27-06, 04:31 PM

escon

11-27-06, 05:04 PM

Just to be perfectly clear, there is no 768i format so PReP can do nothing with a 768p signal.Yes, but if the 768p signal was derived from a de-interlaced 576i signal in the first place before being scaled up to 768p (or 720p for that matter), there should be an opportunity to take the frames and re-interlace them. True, the signal you are reconstituting has been scaled and maybe this "stuffs" thing up beyond repair, but in principle, the action is the same as far as I understand all of this.

Dale Adams

11-27-06, 05:57 PM

Yes, but if the 768p signal was derived from a de-interlaced 576i signal in the first place before being scaled up to 768p (or 720p for that matter), there should be an opportunity to take the frames and re-interlace them. True, the signal you are reconstituting has been scaled and maybe this "stuffs" thing up beyond repair, but in principle, the action is the same as far as I understand all of this.No, it's not the same. The original 576i field from the 576p image no longer exist due scaling of the image from 576p to 768p. Data from that original field has been merged with data from the field added by the deinterlacer due to the scaling process. PReP identifies the original field and extracts it, but since that field no longer exists the identification process will fail or not be reliable.

- Dale Adams

cat6man

11-27-06, 05:59 PM

Hmm, although I saved it in ProntoEdit4, I just tried it in NG and it imported it fine?

i've been using the discretes from the dvdo website....just thought i'd take a look at the ccf but it wouldn't load for some reason...it hung while saying it was converting from ccf to pcf....fyi

cheers

escon

11-27-06, 06:03 PM

No, it's not the same. The original 576i field from the 576p image no longer exist due scaling of the image from 576p to 768p. Data from that original field has been merged with data from the field added by the deinterlacer due to the scaling process. PReP identifies the original field and extracts it, but since that field no longer exists the identification process will fail or not be reliable.

- Dale AdamsThanks Dale, thought you might chirp in here :D .

jschefdog

11-27-06, 06:57 PM

Someone reported this earlier, but wanted to comfirm. I can also pass 5.1 channel PCM through the VP50 using HDMI after the 1.01 firmware upgrade...

At first I thought it didn't work because I only got 2 channel PCM at the receiver. I checked the HD-A1 settings and HDMI output was set to PCM. I tried changing it to Auto and then I got 5.1 channel PCM at the receiver. Changed it back to PCM and got 2 channels again. Changed it back to Auto and got 5.1. So the moral is to use Auto. Weird, but HDMI behavior often is.
After working with 1.01 some more I'm not sure if the A1 has to be set to Auto. A couple of times when I first turned everything on, my receiver was reporting 2 channel PCM. I found that if I switched the VP50 to another input, then back to the A1 HDMI input, I would then get 5.1 channel PCM. So whether or not you get 5.1 channel PCM at startup may depend on the order that units are turned on. I haven't had a chance to try turning things on in different order, but switching the VP50 input has so far always resulted in 5.1 channel PCM.

Another interesting thing is that once the VP50 is passing 5.1 channel PCM it seems to lock the audio from the A1 into that mode. I had the A1 set to Auto, but when I removed an HD DVD and put in a regular DVD, the receiver was still reporting 5.1 channel PCM. I would have expected the A1 to switch to bitstream mode and pass the Dolby Digital stream. This is how it worked when the A1 was connected directly to my receiver in Auto mode.

No brief audio dropouts, but I have encountered the total loss of audio over HDMI a couple of times. The good news is that now I can get the HDMI audio back by switching the VP50 to another input then switching back. Before it would require unplugging the VP50. So it's not fixed, but at least it's easier to correct the problem when it occurs.

So still some HDMI audio glitches but at least things are getting better. The HDMI adventure continues. :D

barrygordon

11-27-06, 07:21 PM

Axel,

I will contact DVDO and get the code values for Prep on and off and then include them. I will post when that is done.

With regard to the ini file and starting up the program. If you set the "iScan Connected" Parameter True but set the "Auto Start" parameter False, the system will start in its normal manner checking for the existance of com ports, but will not look for an iScan on any of the ports. You can then just click the "IR Tool" button. To have it look for the iScan device you would click on the "Open Port" button. Hope that helps.

Axel

11-27-06, 08:08 PM

.....
With regard to the ini file and starting up the program. If you set the "iScan Connected" Parameter True but set the "Auto Start" parameter False, the system will start in its normal manner checking for the existance of com ports, but will not look for an iScan on any of the ports. You can then just click the "IR Tool" button. To have it look for the iScan device you would click on the "Open Port" button. Hope that helps.

Got, yep, this should do it.
Thanks!

PS: I appreciate your kind offer to include the PReP codes!
_____
Axel

barrygordon

11-27-06, 10:13 PM

Axel

11-27-06, 10:36 PM

Axel,

Here is the PRep code. Just add this line in the ini file in the commands section just before the entry for Presets (alphabetical ordedr). That should do it.

PReP =[029] B6;(0)Off,(1)On;0

The 029 in square brackets is the item nunber used to position it on the page, The discrete code is B6 and the values are as shown for off and on. The program was built to make it easy to add new codes. No change is required in the program itself. I will update the web site tomorrow.

Wow! Now I am truly impressed. Thanks so much. I added it to the ini file (also included the "hack" for the autostart) and voila, PReP shows up - excellent job, Barry!!

I hope DVDO is going to send you (if they have not already done so) a VP50 for all your efforts of making their product even better. Also I am sure you need to do some serious testing under real life conditions before you could release any updates to the public... :D

Thanks again!
_______
Axel

jesseasi

11-27-06, 10:39 PM

barrygordon

11-27-06, 11:15 PM

Axel,

I have an excellent working relationship with DVDO. That is all I can say. The program will be getting some revamping, but I will announce newer versions. What I really want to do is the Save/Restore.

barrygordon

11-27-06, 11:20 PM

The VP50 will do exzctly what you want. Having said that, there might be some issues with the HR10-250. I had two of those when I had Sat, but now I am on cable with two SA8300HD DVR's. Until the latest DVR firmware upgrades there were many problems with HDMI, but they were resolved with the latest upgrade.

The VP50 is designed to do the switching you desire. The other alternative is to use an optical or coaxial audio output from the HR10-250 feeding it to the VP50 and assigning it as the audio to be used for the corresponding HDMI video. That should not be necessary but it is there.

aaronwt

11-28-06, 01:16 AM

Quick question about the VP50 and audio. I had my unit for 2 days and had to ship it back. Aaron at DVDO been a great help.

Here is my question. I will be feeding two HR10-250's into my VP50. Using the HDMI cable, the audio will be passed through via the HDMI cable to the VP50. Will the VP50 send the audio out through the audio out optical port? My plasma does not have any speakers so there won't be any audio available that route.

I have read several reports of audio drop outs and lots of issues with the HR10-250's. Will the new firmware work in my situation?

My goal is to have the VP50 do all the switching. I hope this works.

I use two HR10-250 units with my VP50. It works fine sending the audio over HDMI and out over the VP50 optical. The only thing you might want to do is turn off the TiVo sounds. I lost the DD audio once when I switched back and forth between Live TV and the TiVo menu. I was able to reproduce this again and to get the DD audio back I had to reset the VP50 by unplugging the power cord. Once I turned of the TiVo sounds I was not able to reproduce it and it has been fine since then.
I don't have any audio dropout problems like people are describing from the HDTiVos. They have been performing well with the VP50 and the TiVo sounds turned off. The VP50 is a big improvement from the upscaling of 720P that the HDTiVo does.

jesseasi

11-28-06, 02:04 AM

I don't have any audio dropout problems like people are describing from the HDTiVos. They have been performing well with the VP50 and the TiVo sounds turned off. The VP50 is a big improvement from the upscaling of 720P that the HDTiVo does.

Excellent tip. Thanks for the advice!

I will have a viewing this weekend with my new Panasonic 65" 1080P Plasma. If the VP50 performs well, I have a feeling a bunch of my buddies will be joining in on the fun.

There is another question related to the HR10-250. Do you know if you output via the HDMI cable, does the component video out still work? The 2nd Tivo is actually in another room and I would like to have that Tivo feeding two different tv's. Any tips on how to do this and get the best picture possible on both TV's?

collinp

11-28-06, 03:24 AM

Excellent tip. Thanks for the advice!

I will have a viewing this weekend with my new Panasonic 65" 1080P Plasma. If the VP50 performs well, I have a feeling a bunch of my buddies will be joining in on the fun.

There is another question related to the HR10-250. Do you know if you output via the HDMI cable, does the component video out still work? The 2nd Tivo is actually in another room and I would like to have that Tivo feeding two different tv's. Any tips on how to do this and get the best picture possible on both TV's?

I run both the HD DirecTiVo and the HD CableCard TiVo on my setup. Prior to the 1.0.1 firmware they would occasionally suffer < 1 second audio dropouts. This appears fixed on the new firmware. The other issue I see is the loss of the VP50s ability to pass Dolby Digital from the TiVos. This issue seems less prevalent on the 1.0.1 firmware. Even better is that with 1.0.1 it does not take a reboot of the VP50 to fix it. Switching to another input and back seems sufficient to fix the issue. The Dolby Digital issue can be completely worked around by running only PCM out of the TiVo though many will not find this an acceptable workaround.

I haven't tried the component video cables, but the s-video port is still active on my TiVos while HDMI is connected, so there's a good chance the component output is active too.

- Collin

aaronwt

11-28-06, 08:28 AM

Only one output, component/HDMI, is active at a time for HD output on the HR10-250. And actually I think once you plug in an HDMI cable I think it disables the component. If I remember correctly. I haven't used the component out on my HDTiVos since Summer 2005.

LonelyDodger

11-28-06, 02:06 PM

...I found that if I switched the VP50 to another input, then back to the A1 HDMI input, I would then get 5.1 channel PCM...

...I haven't had a chance to try turning things on in different order, but switching the VP50 input has so far always resulted in 5.1 channel PCM...

...Another interesting thing is that once the VP50 is passing 5.1 channel PCM it seems to lock the audio from the A1 into that mode. I had the A1 set to Auto, but when I removed an HD DVD and put in a regular DVD, the receiver was still reporting 5.1 channel PCM. I would have expected the A1 to switch to bitstream mode and pass the Dolby Digital stream...

...The HDMI adventure continues...

Hey Jeff,

This sounds exactly like an EDID problem (specifically an EDID >>reading<< problem). It seems that the A1 is programmed to read the "sink" EDID only under certain circumstances. This would mean that when you do something like switch inputs on the VP50 (which I recall uses Silicon Image 9033 Receivers), will cause a "hot-plug" on the source forcing a full link re-initialization (including an EDID read).

You might (for the sake of experimentation) try first turning on the VP50, then the A1 to see if it does an EDID read (you need to have the VP50 on for the A1 to be able to read the EDID) and outputs multi-channel PCM. Remember, the iScan's don't do anything to the audio other than delay it - so I'm sure that the A1 is directly controlling the type of audio that's being output (It makes me cringe that forcing the audio type in the menu isn't doing what it's supposed to do - darn it Toshiba!!! :))

Cheers!

-LD :cool:

P.S. It shouldn't hurt to have the VP50 always on... -LD

choddo2006

11-28-06, 03:01 PM

Barry - for firmware updates, your utility is awesome. Saves all the messing around with the terminal program DVDO link to. Just plug the cable in, hit the button & go. If you manage to add Save & Restore, it will be completely invaluable!

For IR codes, I haven't put it through its paces yet, but will try to set up some stuff on my Pronto.

I think the UI is a bit mind-blowing to a new user, I'll try to knock up a mockup in VBExpress later to show what I mean

Thanks for all your work on this

oink

11-28-06, 03:20 PM

Does anyone know if the CUE Correction works on HD sources too?

barrygordon

11-28-06, 05:51 PM

Thanks for the kind remarks. The UI was a heavy compromise between simplicity and flexibility. DVDO had a bit of input there also. If you can give me some concrete ideas of how to improve the UI I will try to incorporate. I do intend to add Save and restore (beyond what is there) as soon as DVDO does some enabling firmware changes.

choddo2006

11-28-06, 08:11 PM

Just set up my new Oppo 970HD over HDMI and I am now the proud recipient of the legendary fleeting white line. It's about 100 pixels across in the top left corner, and it's dashed. It's a cunning minx though, very rarely shows its face if you sit staring at that part of the screen. I had it about 8 times in 45 minutes of Riddick.

Other than that, the picture out of this player's fantastic though, especially at a fraction of the price of SDI.

Barry - on the UI thing, grabbing a screenshot without a vp attached doesn't show quite the same thing so it's not worth mocking up (although I did finally get round to installing VBE 2005. MS do a great job of hiding that download too, thanks google), but I guess what I struggled with a bit was;

knowing that "Loader" was the firmware tool. Perhaps a rename to "Update VP" or something?
Could the ????? be renamed to "search" or "Auto" on the lists in the top left?
Maybe the "Open Port" button changed to "Connect"?
Exit should probably be in the bottom right
The colours are a little confusing, at least for me being a dabbler and not reading the manual first, I'm not sure what the colours represent.
I don't know if it's possible in that version of VB to build the Outlook style interface with tasks on the left (I sure couldn't find a quick way to do it!), so it could maybe have "Connect", "Update Firmware", "Change Settings", "Backup/Restore" (when possible) down the left and then each would have a much simplified main panel?

I think the rest is fine. The tabbed bit for the various settings is great, the link to DVDO is useful too.

oink

11-28-06, 10:22 PM

barrygordon

11-28-06, 11:54 PM

CHODDO,

Cosmetic, but I did change two of them ('Open port' to 'Connect', and reposition EXIT.)

sidb

11-29-06, 12:05 AM

After being away for Thanksgiving, I've finally installed the new beta firmware. Everything is as I've read here, except that I can no longer use Display Profiles. The whole menu item is grayed out in the Output Setup menu. Did that happen to everyone else, or just me?

SJHT

11-29-06, 01:01 AM

Did you set the user setting to "advanced"? Seems like you need to do that to use the profiles? It gets reset after an upgrade of the firmware. SJ

sidb

11-29-06, 02:32 AM

Did you set the user setting to "advanced"? Seems like you need to do that to use the profiles? It gets reset after an upgrade of the firmware. SJWow, that was it. What a screwy design. I thought "advanced" was just for messing with video timings. If there's a dedicated button for display profiles on the remote, they shouldn't be disabled for secret reasons. Oh well. Thanks.

frobbit

11-29-06, 03:39 AM

Hello all!

Just want to say that this forum helped me from spending too much money and needless headaches.

Just for my own edification, would the purchase of this device negate the purpose of buying an Helio H4000 upconverting dvd player?

I "think" the answer is yes, and this device would be all I need? :confused:

Thank you all for any help. :)

choddo2006

11-29-06, 04:09 AM

Yeah the vp50 would do a better job, but isn't it quite a lot more expensive than the H4000? I think the Helio has some media straeming capabilities too (although I haven't checked that)

big_marcelo

11-29-06, 04:27 AM

big_marcelo

11-29-06, 04:30 AM

Choddo,

I get the "fleeting white line", as you describe it, occasionally on some of cable SD channels as I scroll from channel to another.
Other than that, I don't see it.

Congrats on your Oppo.
It is a fine machine, I have been very pleased by its performance.

my flashing white line disappeared since upgrading to 1.01...

you can still see the VOB line on some uneditted programmes... its more of a dash line.... and sometimes you can tell is part of the video broadcast....

collinp

11-29-06, 04:31 AM

Wow, that was it. What a screwy design. I thought "advanced" was just for messing with video timings. If there's a dedicated button for display profiles on the remote, they shouldn't be disabled for secret reasons. Oh well. Thanks.

I agree. The whole advanced/normal thing is pretty silly. It's not like the interface gets considerably simpler if advanced is off. If anything having it off causes more confusion than just leaving it on.

Maybe if there was a "user mode" and "setup mode" that toggled between a very simplified, little more than input and aspect ratio switching menu for the wife, and a configure everything mode for me it could be useful, though even then I think I'd still leave it in advanced/setup mode all the time. I think DVDO should just drop the whole concept and make it run in advanced mode all the time.

- Collin

collinp

11-29-06, 04:34 AM

PS: compared to the 971 via DVI @ 576p ... both other options SDI or 970 were much, much better....

With the VP50 doing PReP or just scaling on the 576p signal?

- Collin

escon

11-29-06, 05:31 AM

With the VP50 doing PReP or just scaling on the 576p signal?

- Collin
T'was in the days before PReP.

Dale Adams

11-29-06, 06:27 AM

I agree. The whole advanced/normal thing is pretty silly. It's not like the interface gets considerably simpler if advanced is off. If anything having it off causes more confusion than just leaving it on.

Maybe if there was a "user mode" and "setup mode" that toggled between a very simplified, little more than input and aspect ratio switching menu for the wife, and a configure everything mode for me it could be useful, though even then I think I'd still leave it in advanced/setup mode all the time. I think DVDO should just drop the whole concept and make it run in advanced mode all the time.I agree with both of you. I often urged that the 'advanced' mode be dropped as it wasn't doing what it was really intended to do and just needlessly complicated things. Apparently others at ABT disagreed, as it's obviously still there. :D

The initial concept was to have a simple operating mode without all the clutter needed for complex setups, and also which would prevent novice users from getting into trouble. In the original iScan HD there were supposed to be quite a number of additional features (some of which are unimplemented now, even in the VP50) which would have fallen under the 'advanced' category. I believe the original concept made sense, but what you have now deviates from that concept. The whole thing should just be dropped.

It would make sense to have a 'locked' or 'protected' mode, though, where many setup parameters could not be changed. That was also supposed to be there way back in the iScan HD, but it never got implemented.

- Dale Adams

ailean

11-29-06, 06:52 AM

I agree with both of you. I often urged that the 'advanced' mode be dropped as it wasn't doing what it was really intended to do and just needlessly complicated things. Apparently others at ABT disagreed, as it's obviously still there. :D

The initial concept was to have a simple operating mode without all the clutter needed for complex setups, and also which would prevent novice users from getting into trouble. In the original iScan HD there were supposed to be quite a number of additional features (some of which are unimplemented now, even in the VP50) which would have fallen under the 'advanced' category. I believe the original concept made sense, but what you have now deviates from that concept. The whole thing should just be dropped.

It would make sense to have a 'locked' or 'protected' mode, though, where many setup parameters could not be changed. That was also supposed to be there way back in the iScan HD, but it never got implemented.

- Dale Adams

Yeah I am still waiting for some magic really advanced options to pop up when in that mode (EDID edit for instance). ;)

The User mode and Setup mode sounds more sensible, especially if people are letting OTHERS touch the DVDO remote. :eek:

The Locked idea also makes sense, especially as DVDO still haven't implemented any way to save configurations but that still wouldn't help when doing a firmware upgrade.

I think I nice combo of Setup Mode/User Mode and Save/Load Config would help a lot of customers out, I hate to think of the number of folks who must have lost all there nice professional calibrations/setups over the years. :o

sidb

11-29-06, 01:34 PM

PS: compared to the 971 via DVI @ 576p ... both other options SDI or 970 were much, much better....I was actually thinking of getting an Oppo 971 now that PReP is actually on my VP50, so I can have a good, cheap player without HDCP on its digital output. (The 971 has Faroudja-deinterlaced 480p DVI as opposed to the 970's 480i HDMI + HDCP.) The 971's 480p + PReP ought to give as good a picture as a 970's 480i output, right? With this question, I'm basically just running a quick sanity check, asking it there's an even better option, and sort of implying that I'll report back if I do it (although I don't have a 971 for comparison).

c-not-k

11-29-06, 01:46 PM

I did a shootout with my 790 through the VP50 and a friends 971 via SDI... using the same disc on both .....

even though I'm perfectly happy with my 970 and is incredible bang for your buck ... with very good discs & clean images, the picture out of the SDI was 'sharper & clearer' and more 3D ...

now.. .that isn't to say its worth spending another $400-600 bucks to get SDI ... but it was slightly more 3D and cleaner....

Thanks for the tip. I have an SDI modded Denon 1600 waiting for a VP50.

Now to save my pennies...

gdemott

11-29-06, 02:10 PM

I was actually thinking of getting an Oppo 971 now that PReP is actually on my VP50, so I can have a good, cheap player without HDCP on its digital output. (The 971 has Faroudja-deinterlaced 480p DVI as opposed to the 970's 480i HDMI + HDCP.) The 971's 480p + PReP ought to give as good a picture as a 970's 480i output, right? With this question, I'm basically just running a quick sanity check, asking it there's an even better option, and sort of implying that I'll report back if I do it (although I don't have a 971 for comparison).

OK so this is subjective but here goes.....
I own a VP50 and I also own:
Oppo 971 SDI modified
Toshiba HD-DVD XA1
Panasonic RP82 SDI modifed

Standard definition DVD's are best displayed on my VPL-HS60 when using the Panasonic RP82 SDI modified player.

I also have a Samsung Blu Ray player arriving shortly however I doubt it will be able to match the Panasonic for SD DVD's.

Gary