I was actually thinking of getting an Oppo 971 now that PReP is actually on my VP50, so I can have a good, cheap player without HDCP on its digital output. (The 971 has Faroudja-deinterlaced 480p DVI as opposed to the 970's 480i HDMI + HDCP.) The 971's 480p + PReP ought to give as good a picture as a 970's 480i output, right? With this question, I'm basically just running a quick sanity check, asking it there's an even better option, and sort of implying that I'll report back if I do it (although I don't have a 971 for comparison).
I believe there are hacked firmwares for the 970 that disable HDCP. I don't need one so haven't looked.

nothing will ever beat the SDI Pannys(RP82/RP91/XP30/XP50/CP72 etc.) and their clones(Denon 1600,Yammy S2300 and CX1)

so quite trying :D

-Gary

nothing will ever beat the SDII don't watch enough DVDs to justify that last bit of improvement from SDI. An Oppo is cheap, though, even if only used occasionally. I guess I'll look into HDCP-free firmware hacks for the 970, or take advantage of PReP and the 971. (PReP is why I posted here in the first place, rather than in a different forum. Before PReP, a 971 wasn't really an option since it has no 480i output and I'm not going to SDI mod one.)
(EDIT: And I want to play with my VP50's new feature, of course.)

I have posted a new version of my DVDO utility program correcting a change in format for the zoom commands on the VP50. There are some other corrections to the INI file. I believe the version is .57 (too lazy to look)

Just updated it to version .60 to allow easy access to both the AVS VP30 forum and the VP50 forum. (suggested by DVDO)

Gary;

Can you confirm that you used the PReP function with the Tosh when you did the comparison? I assume you had it set to 480p via HDMI, correct?

_____
Axel

OK I just spent 30 minutes comparing the Tosh XA1 against my Panasonic RP82 SDI using one of my favorite test discs "Fifth Element" Ultimate Edition. SDI mod by Pixel Magic Japan.

Prep ON for 480P via HDMI against the Panny. No contest. Panny wins everytime. Right from the opening noise free opening titles the sharpness and clarity are incredible. Also changed the resolution on the Tosh up thru 1080i. Still no contest.

Comparing my Oppo 971 SDI modified is a different story. I prefer the picture of the Tosh to the Oppo with SDI. The SDI mod by JVB Digital.

The combination of the VP50 and RP82 SDI is really something special.

Gary

Does the VP50 has any feature that will remove the top/bottom bars on my display when watching a DVD? Wasn't sure if this was possible to change the format, removing the bars without alternating the image quality. I found a feature in one of the menus on the VP50 that allowed me to move the screen up/down to fill the screen, but it really stretched the image and takes away from the picture. I'm hoping there is another way of doing this that I'm not aware of?

nothing will ever beat the SDI Pannys(RP82/RP91/XP30/XP50/CP72 etc.) and their clones(Denon 1600,Yammy S2300 and CX1)

so quite trying :D

-Gary

Nothing... ever... are pretty bold words. But in terms of SD picture quality I have to agree. I am continually underwhelmed by HD because my SDI modified CX1 run through a DVDO processor is just so darn good. For instance, the Cinemax Star Wars HD broadcasts admittedly have a bit more fine detail, but I still prefer the upconverted SD DVDs. The color accuracy, sharpness, and film like presentation of DVD is unbeatable on my CX1/SDI/VP50 setup. In the long run HD discs will handily beat SD DVDs, but many would be surprised just how great a picture you can squeeze out of an SD DVD with the right equipment.

- Collin

Does the VP50 has any feature that will remove the top/bottom bars on my display when watching a DVD? Wasn't sure if this was possible to change the format, removing the bars without alternating the image quality. I found a feature in one of the menus on the VP50 that allowed me to move the screen up/down to fill the screen, but it really stretched the image and takes away from the picture. I'm hoping there is another way of doing this that I'm not aware of?

A 1.85:1 film (say Jurassic Park) on a 1.85:1 (widescreen) display can fill the screen by pressing the 16:9 button. If you want to take a wider aspect ratio film (say Lawrence Of Arabia) and display it on a 1.85:1 display with no black bars you either need to stretch and distort the film vertically or chop off the left and right hand edges of the film. Both of these can be done by fiddling with the aspect ratio controls on the VP50. Neither option is palatable to me. One final option if you're using a front projection system is to look into a Panamorph lens. Which would make your setup 2.35:1 widerscreen setup. It would eliminate the black bars at the top and bottom for wide films, but you will then start get more black bars on the left and right for narrower aspect ratio films.

- Collin

T'was in the days before PReP.

we did the test at Phil's place in Sydney .... the good old Australian contigent of the AVS ...

A 1.85:1 film (say Jurassic Park) on a 1.85:1 (widescreen) display can fill the screen by pressing the 16:9 button. If you want to take a wider aspect ratio film (say Lawrence Of Arabia) and display it on a 1.85:1 display with no black bars you either need to stretch and distort the film vertically or chop off the left and right hand edges of the film. Both of these can be done by fiddling with the aspect ratio controls on the VP50. Neither option is palatable to me. One final option if you're using a front projection system is to look into a Panamorph lens. Which would make your setup 2.35:1 widerscreen setup. It would eliminate the black bars at the top and bottom for wide films, but you will then start get more black bars on the left and right for narrower aspect ratio films.

- Collin

Thanks for the feedback Collin, I guess I will just have to live with the Black bars and smaller image at this point. The stretch that I tried previous (and yes, using a front projector with the VP50) does distort the screen with alternating the format and not something I can live with either.

This might be a different POST on this forum, but with HD DVD or Blu Ray, do they use the same format as SD DVD and result in Black Bars? If not, I might have to get one of these sooner then later.

Nothing... ever... are pretty bold words. But in terms of SD picture quality I have to agree. I am continually underwhelmed by HD because my SDI modified CX1 run through a DVDO processor is just so darn good. For instance, the Cinemax Star Wars HD broadcasts admittedly have a bit more fine detail, but I still prefer the upconverted SD DVDs. The color accuracy, sharpness, and film like presentation of DVD is unbeatable on my CX1/SDI/VP50 setup. In the long run HD discs will handily beat SD DVDs, but many would be surprised just how great a picture you can squeeze out of an SD DVD with the right equipment.

- Collin

Unbeatable?? thats a pretty bold word too. Even though the picture of SD DVD upscaled to 1080p looks awesome on my setup, HDDVD is really something with the right equipment, the differences are very obvious to me.

Unbeatable?? thats a pretty bold word too. Even though the picture of SD DVD upscaled to 1080p looks awesome on my setup, HDDVD is really something with the right equipment, the differences are very obvious to me.

I should have been clearer, I was referring to unbeatable in the SD world. I acknowledge that HD DVD will/or perhaps already does smoke SD DVD. I think the race is pretty close though between HD broadcast/cable/satelite and a good upconverted SD DVD.

- Collin

I should have been clearer, I was referring to unbeatable in the SD world. I acknowledge that HD DVD will/or perhaps already does smoke SD DVD. I think the race is pretty close though between HD broadcast/cable/satelite and a good upconverted SD DVD.
- Collin
I think it's pretty much the same over here down under. I have yet to see one of our so called HD broadcasts (inc 1080i) to equal even a 720p HD original. Seeing some of the demo HD stuff really shows you what can be done, but I've yet to see an HD broadcast look as good. I guess in the main, the source material that's available in true HD is very limited, and that includes of course all the film stock (prints) that the broadcasters use as their source. It's difficult to beat true HD Video as opposed to film when it comes to a pure clean noise-free picture. You're lucky to see a third generation copy of the original film in most cases - very often it's a fourth downsized copy that we get to see on telly. It's such a shame really that we often don't even get to see the quality that's achievable on SD DVDs.

maybe I'm off base, but couldn't a lot of the average (non-spectacular) quality HD-DVDs or BluRay be blamed on the newness of the format - just the fact that not everyone is encoding them to get the most out of the format. For those of you with long memories, I'd hazard to compare the new HD dvd formats to the first cds that were released. Some were very good, but a lot were quite average, and not a few were downright unlistenable.

But remember - you're comparing modded SD-DVD thru a 3k box, just to match the picture coming from a stock $400 HD-DVD box. Much like comparing mega buck turntables, 2k+ cartridges, and cool tube phono-pres to a 100 dollar Sony cd changer from BB.

Don't get me wrong - I think 480i dvds out of my Denon, thru the VP50 look spectacular - but I would be greatly disappointed if the new-gen machines didn't look consistently better by this time next year.

The initial concept was to have a simple operating mode without all the clutter needed for complex setups, and also which would prevent novice users from getting into trouble. In the original iScan HD there were supposed to be quite a number of additional features (some of which are unimplemented now, even in the VP50) which would have fallen under the 'advanced' category. I believe the original concept made sense, but what you have now deviates from that concept. The whole thing should just be dropped.

That was also supposed to be there way back in the iScan HD, but it never got implemented.

- Dale Adams

This was the point I was trying to make a few posts back . I see this as a tremendous wasted opportunity for DVDO and its Customer relations . You can't just keep producing a new box , and discard the old , every time you want to implement another new "idea" without continuing the support to the early adopters . Would it not be a great PR triumph to announce that these early products would finally receive all the bells and whistles originally promised ?

Who knows , maybe the software guys will have a slow day or two before Christmas and punch out the firmware that's on our Santa list :D

Scott............

maybe I'm off base, but couldn't a lot of the average (non-spectacular) quality HD-DVDs or BluRay be blamed on the newness of the format - just the fact that not everyone is encoding them to get the most out of the format. For those of you with long memories, I'd hazard to compare the new HD dvd formats to the first cds that were released. Some were very good, but a lot were quite average, and not a few were downright unlistenable.

But remember - you're comparing modded SD-DVD thru a 3k box, just to match the picture coming from a stock $400 HD-DVD box. Much like comparing mega buck turntables, 2k+ cartridges, and cool tube phono-pres to a 100 dollar Sony cd changer from BB.

Don't get me wrong - I think 480i dvds out of my Denon, thru the VP50 look spectacular - but I would be greatly disappointed if the new-gen machines didn't look consistently better by this time next year.

The beginning of the SD DVD format was the same way. I was about as early an adopter of DVD as you get and still have a few early DVDs in my collection. They are shockingly, almost unwatchably bad compared to a modern DVD. We didn't get a remastered Blade Runner until this year. Boy was that old transfer awful. I'm sure the same thing will happen with the next gen DVD formats. You'll buy discs today because your hungry for content, but you'll end up replacing them with remasters in a few years that really show off the format(s).

- Collin

Anyone actually inputting a PS3 into the VP50 (via HDMI)? Does the audio come out the digital connection (coax/optical) in 5.1? Thanks. SJ

yeah i just got a PS3 and am connecting it via HDMI through the VP50. The audio does come out the digital connection in 5.1, I haven't tried any of the 7.1 modes or anything more tha DD 5.1 yet. This was with a BluRay movie.

I also tried a 720p game (NHL2K) and the VP50 scaled it nicely to my 1080p set. I'm assuming there was some VP lag involved in doing this but it was not noticeable, I could play the game just fine.

I also tried turning PReP on/off with a BluRay movie just for the heck of it and couldn't see any difference...but since the movie is in 1080p to begin with what exactly would PReP do in this case anyway?

If anyone wants me to try anything else let me know.

OK I just spent 30 minutes comparing the Tosh XA1 against my Panasonic RP82 SDI using one of my favorite test discs "Fifth Element" Ultimate Edition. SDI mod by Pixel Magic Japan.

Prep ON for 480P via HDMI against the Panny. No contest. Panny wins everytime. Right from the opening noise free opening titles the sharpness and clarity are incredible. Also changed the resolution on the Tosh up thru 1080i. Still no contest.

Comparing my Oppo 971 SDI modified is a different story. I prefer the picture of the Tosh to the Oppo with SDI. The SDI mod by JVB Digital.

The combination of the VP50 and RP82 SDI is really something special.

Gary

I got many years of use from my SDI RP82 before I sold it last year. It had an excellent picture. If I was stilll watching Sd DVDs it would be an excellent choice to watch them on. But for me, after watching HD DVDs, I find it difficult to watch SD DVDs anymore. Although the combo of an SDI RP82 and a VP50 must be excellent. I used mine with Holo3DGraph 1 and 2 and an iscan HD and HD+. I sold it and the SDI module when I got an HD set with HDMI to finance my VP30. The picture over HDMi is good but the SDI RP82 was better.

And I am waiting for HD-SDI for my Panny BD player. ;)

HD-SDI from the Panny, then connected to where?

HD-SDI from the Panny, then connected to where?

Josh has confirmed DVDO's desire to do an HD-SDI card for the VP50. Though certainly it does not exist yet.

Since I see myself running 3 separate video players (SD-DVD, HD-DVD, & Blu-Ray) for the next few years I hope the next processor from DVDO can handle 2 HD-SDI and 1 SD-SDI inputs. Unlikely, yes, but one can dream, no?

- Collin

He has actually confirmed this? Or he just mentioned it was on the cards? I spoke with him and he said unofficially they are trying to get this out, so no promises.

I have my XA1 HD-SDI modded, I can send it direct to my DVX8022 (has 2 HD-SDI inputs) but this is only 1080i60, so I am still going through the VP50 to get 1080p48. Pity it can't do 1080p72.

But if you're impatient, there is someone who is currently modding the VP50 to have HD-SDI input, but this is a direct mod ie. cannot be removed and likely voids your warranty. This is why I'm waiting/hoping for any news on DVDO's own efforts.

He has actually confirmed this? Or he just mentioned it was on the cards? I spoke with him and he said unofficially they are trying to get this out, so no promises.

As I said he confirmed DVDO's _desire_ to make an HD-SDI card for the VP50, but has not officially announced a product. Since this year long audio morass I've been a bit of a DVDO skeptic, but I still think an HD-SDI card will happen unless they find an insurmountable technical issue, and if that is the case it will almost certainly be available for their next processor. That's just my feeling from Josh's comments and my personal observations on how DVDO does business. It's something that's probably not too hard too accomplish, but is going to be essential if they intend to stay competitive in the video processor market.

- Collin

And I am waiting for HD-SDI for my Panny BD player. ;)

Coming soon to a home theater near you.........

JVB Digital is already selling a HD-SDI modified TOSH XA1

Blu Ray mods are just a matter of time.

Crystalio already has a scaler with HD-SDI/ SDI inputs. Problem is though I own a VP50. Hopefully that upgrade (hardware) mod will be available someday and not on a VP100. <grin>

Gary

HD-SDI from the Panny, then connected to where?

Sony VPL-HS60 Video Projector

The beginning of the SD DVD format was the same way. I was about as early an adopter of DVD as you get and still have a few early DVDs in my collection. They are shockingly, almost unwatchably bad compared to a modern DVD. We didn't get a remastered Blade Runner until this year. Boy was that old transfer awful. I'm sure the same thing will happen with the next gen DVD formats. You'll buy discs today because your hungry for content, but you'll end up replacing them with remasters in a few years that really show off the format(s).

- Collin

Collin:

You could be OLDER - Like Me - and Have a Copy on Laser Disk and then 2 or 3
more on DVD and now a 4th on HD DVD

Isn't this HOBBY FUN [GRIN]?

Collin:

You could be OLDER - Like Me - and Have a Copy on Laser Disk and then 2 or 3
more on DVD and now a 4th on HD DVD

Isn't this HOBBY FUN [GRIN]?

Oh, I was just trying to sound young. :) I got into LDs in the late 80s / early 90s, which actually makes me a bit of an LD noob. I was cleaning out the LD collection just last weekend (I don't really watch any of them anymore.) I found "A Video Standard" on LD. That's way back. Then I found "Video Essentials" on LD. I've also got "Video Essentials" on DVD. And of course "Digital Video Essentials" on DVD. And now "Digital Video Essentials" on HD-DVD. And then there's classics like Star Wars where I've got the original trilogy 4 times on LD. (Original, Definitive, THX, and SE) And now 2 times on DVD (SE & Original). Good lord. You'd think I slept on Yoda sheets or something. And, really, how many editions of Terry Gilliam's Brazil can one person own!?

LD brings up a good point though. The original DVD transfers weren't that great and the folks with top-end LD setups said LD was actually better. They were arguably right for the first generation, but nowadays you'd be laughed out of town if you really tried to argue that LD looks superior to DVD. I'm sure the same thing is happening with the high-def discs. This first gen is good and slightly superior, but still rivaled by top-end SD-DVD playback systems. In a few years, however, hi-def discs will just destroy SD DVD in terms of PQ. I can't wait. Hopefully, this moronic format war will be decided by then, win, lose, or draw.

- Collin

I own the DVDO VP50 and right now have it connected to my Sony XBR2 LCD. I have two quick questions about the PreP technology -

1. In progressive sources, how would the processor know which line is original and which line is synthesized? Is there some kind of flag in Progressive sources that identifies the original interlaced liens? If it is always able to identify the right one then it is really good otherwise it can produce equally bad picture (using the created lines as original and discarding the original lines)

2. For some progressive sources, which are originally progressive to begin with, how can the processor know not to re-interlace and de-interlace the video. How would we know what source is originally progressive to begin with and which one is not?

Thanks,

Oh, I was just trying to sound young. :) I got into LDs in the late 80s / early 90s, which actually makes me a bit of an LD noob. I was cleaning out the LD collection just last weekend (I don't really watch any of them anymore.) I found "A Video Standard" on LD. That's way back. Then I found "Video Essentials" on LD. I've also got "Video Essentials" on DVD. And of course "Digital Video Essentials" on DVD. And now "Digital Video Essentials" on HD-DVD. And then there's classics like Star Wars where I've got the original trilogy 4 times on LD. (Original, Definitive, THX, and SE) And now 2 times on DVD (SE & Original). Good lord. You'd think I slept on Yoda sheets or something. And, really, how many editions of Terry Gilliam's Brazil can one person own!?

LD brings up a good point though. The original DVD transfers weren't that great and the folks with top-end LD setups said LD was actually better. They were arguably right for the first generation, but nowadays you'd be laughed out of town if you really tried to argue that LD looks superior to DVD. I'm sure the same thing is happening with the high-def discs. This first gen is good and slightly superior, but still rivaled by top-end SD-DVD playback systems. In a few years, however, hi-def discs will just destroy SD DVD in terms of PQ. I can't wait. Hopefully, this moronic format war will be decided by then, win, lose, or draw.

- Collin

I guess I am your East Coast CLONE [GRIN]! I have everyone of the LD and
DVD's you mentioned. But I won't have the HD DVD Video Essentials UNTIL
TOMORROW - I can't wait - that is version 4 [GRIN]!

Being on the BLEEDING edge is fun - but then what else do us EE's Do for Fun!

JVB Digital is already selling a HD-SDI modified TOSH XA1
Blu Ray mods are just a matter of time.


Actually, the guy who designed JVB's mods is the same guy who modified my XA1 long before they were available there. But in actual fact, he modded the Samsung BD player first. I think sspears or odyssey has it.

Is there a FAQ or thread available that discusses the demo disc in detail. There is some information in the "ABT102 upgrade" thread and hints about a more thorough discussion. Has that materialized? Thanks.

Actually, the guy who designed JVB's mods is the same guy who modified my XA1 long before they were available there. But in actual fact, he modded the Samsung BD player first. I think sspears or odyssey has it.

Are you getting the native 1080/24p directly off your XA1?
If so, can your VP50 accept it?

The Panny does not do this out of the box.
However, there has been speculation that it can be done thru future FW.
We can hope... ;)

no native 1080p24 :( Supposedly it was to come with a firmware hack and have 1080p24 straight from the Broadcom chip via HD-SDI.

So at the moment I'm waiting for HD-SDI input to the VP50 and have it deinterlace to 1080p48. BUT, from what I heard, the guy who managed to hack the firmware has 1080p24 on his own machine which I guess is still under testing, but as I mentioned earlier somwhere in this thread, he couldnt tell the difference between 1080p24 from the XA1 vs 1080p48 from the VP50.

Who knows?

no native 1080p24 :( Supposedly it was to come with a firmware hack and have 1080p24 straight from the Broadcom chip via HD-SDI.

So at the moment I'm waiting for HD-SDI input to the VP50 and have it deinterlace to 1080p48. BUT, from what I heard, the guy who managed to hack the firmware has 1080p24 on his own machine which I guess is still under testing, but as I mentioned earlier somwhere in this thread, he couldnt tell the difference between 1080p24 from the XA1 vs 1080p48 from the VP50.

Who knows?

When you are talking about 1080p48 from the VP50, are you talking about 1080i60 from the XA1 via HDMI to the VP50, or is it from the HD-SDI?

The advantage of SDI is that the decompressed digital video data is transmitted directly from a digital source, such as your DVD player or satellite receiver, into your iScan HD or HD+ when upgraded with this SDI input module. Your video signal remains in the digital domain, avoiding quality-degrading digital-to-analog and analog-to-digital conversion steps, and thereby retaining the best possible picture clarity.

The result is a much more detailed picture with richer colors and NO video noise associated with use of analog cables.


The above is from the DVDO website and, given the praise for SDI in this forum, I'd like to better understand the issues involved. As an engineer, I like to understand the mechanisms involved and as an audiophile, I have experienced discernible and valuable differences between components for which I still have no satisfactory engineering or scientific explanation.

Since many of you seem to have gotten on the SDI bandwagon quite a while ago, this may be well known to you all but please bear with me as a forum search brought back too many possible answers to sift through.

1. I understand that going through D/A and A/D unnecessarily is to be avoided whenever possible, but I assume that only applies to component cables, right? If so, this argument does not apply to HDMI, correct?

2. The quote from DVDO mentions 'decompressed video' over SDI. Is the HDMI signal in any way compressed relative to an SDI signal?

3. I assume the issue of 'richer colors' and 'video noise' are also with respect to analog/component cables, yes?

4. Are there any degradations associated with HDMI formatting or clock recovery that are improved with SDI?

5. Would there be a corresponding advantage to adding an SDI output to a networked media player such as the Zensonic Z500, which outputs DVD at 480p (into PrEP) and streaming video as well at 480p, 720p and 1080i? Has anyone done this upgrade to a network media player?


Bottom line: If experienced viewers like those on this forum thread see advantages of SDI over HDMI or component, I certainly need to investigate further. I would love to understand if this is also true in comparison to true digital transmission via HDMI as well as for component, and hopefully the 'why' as well.

Thanks for helping the understanding of an experienced engineer and audiophile and video neophyte.

Bottom line: If experienced viewers like those on this forum thread see advantages of SDI over HDMI or component, I certainly need to investigate further. I would love to understand if this is also true in comparison to true digital transmission via HDMI as well as for component, and hopefully the 'why' as well.

Thanks for helping the understanding of an experienced engineer and audiophile and video neophyte.

HDMI and SDI are both uncompressed digital interconnects. In regards to picture quality there is very little difference between them as transports.

Some points in favor of SDI :

- It's all about the math. Who's math and algorithms do you trust? DVDO really seems to get it right. There can be all sorts of rounding errors and bizarre conversions going on inside a DVD player or display. Generally the more math you allow the video processor to do the better the picture looks. Each tweak may be small in its own right, but when added together they make for a significantly better picture.
- DVDs are encoded in 480i/576i 8bit YCbCr 4:2:0. The output of most MPEG decoders is 480i/576i 8 bit YCbCr 4:2:2. This is exactly the format SDI carries. HDMI does not carry this exact format. The closest is 480i/576i at 10 bit YCbCr 4:2:2, ensuring that the player has added at least a little math before it sends it out the HDMI transmitter.
- SDI is generally hooked directly to the output bus of the DVD player's MPEG decoder. This avoids any processing the DVD player may be doing before HDMI transmission.
- SDI is not encrypted. This eliminates interop issues and allows people with non-HDCP compliant displays to play.
- Many HDMI players do not provide the 480i signal needed to take advantage of the deinterlacing in the VP50. PReP allows the VP50 to work its magic on 480p signals, but who knows what additional picture quality destruction the source has done to the signal. PReP definitely improves 480p out of my HD DirecTiVo, but the raw 480i signal is better.
- SDI allows you to choose a player with a transport with the features you want and most importantly with a top end MPEG decoder. With HDMI you are stuck choosing from a handful of players who's feature sets and decoders may not be that desirable. Many of us are pairing SDI with MPEG decoders that are widely revered as exceptional, but only shipped in boxes without HDMI. SDI is the only option for getting a digital signal from these boxes. If HDMI were an option the difference may not be that significant.

I run SDI because I think 5-6 disc changers are essential in this era of movies on multiple discs and TV season box sets. There are very few if any quality changers out there with 480i HDMI. But there happens to have been a series of amazing changers from Yamaha based on the legendary Panasonic RP82 chipset. A Yamaha CX1 with an SDI mod and a VP50 is DVD nirvana. I've got a tank-like multi-disc and about the best PQ money can buy.

Would I get a Zensonic SDI modified? That depends on the quality of the decoder. From the Secrets review the deinterlacing is not great, but they don't give much of a review of the MPEG decoder. It also sounds like its a single chip solution, which may mean there is no opportunity to get in between the MPEG decoder and the deinterlacer to add an SDI output even if you wanted to.

- Collin

Some points in favor of SDI :
..... I've got a tank-like multi-disc and about the best PQ money can buy.


Collin, dont forget that you can run HD-SDI over very long distances too.

Out of curiousity, what display are you using?

Collin, dont forget that you can run HD-SDI over very long distances too.

Out of curiousity, what display are you using?

Long runs, that's a good point.

I should mention that I mean "about the best SD DVD PQ money can buy."

I'm running a 720p Samsung DLP (calibrated of course). I've been eyeing the 1080p sets, but I don't think I'm going to upgrade just yet.

- Collin

Thank you Collin for a superb and detailed answer.

The z500 uses a Sigma Designs 8620 so I doubt that there is a MPEG decoder output available, which makes my proposal a moot point........but leaves me dying to see an SDI-modded player with my vp50/jvc56fn97 setup.

Cheers

I think it's pretty much the same over here down under. I have yet to see one of our so called HD broadcasts (inc 1080i) to equal even a 720p HD original. Seeing some of the demo HD stuff really shows you what can be done, but I've yet to see an HD broadcast look as good. I guess in the main, the source material that's available in true HD is very limited, and that includes of course all the film stock (prints) that the broadcasters use as their source. It's difficult to beat true HD Video as opposed to film when it comes to a pure clean noise-free picture. You're lucky to see a third generation copy of the original film in most cases - very often it's a fourth downsized copy that we get to see on telly. It's such a shame really that we often don't even get to see the quality that's achievable on SD DVDs.
The BBC HD trial (for the most part) is absolutely amazing. Probably still not as good as HD-DVD because the raw bitrate isn't available but it blows away everything else available on SkyHD, including big US shows like Lost and 24. Something like 20Mbps of H.264 I think. Some movies on Sky get to 18 and look great, but the average is about 6-12. Still way better than SDTV but harder to tell the difference from SD DVD at that point.

Thanks for the feedback Collin, I guess I will just have to live with the Black bars and smaller image at this point. The stretch that I tried previous (and yes, using a front projector with the VP50) does distort the screen with alternating the format and not something I can live with either.

This might be a different POST on this forum, but with HD DVD or Blu Ray, do they use the same format as SD DVD and result in Black Bars? If not, I might have to get one of these sooner then later.
Unless your screen is the same aspect ratio as movies (2.40:1 is about the widest I think) and you're using an anamorphic lens to reshape the 1.78:1 ratio that HD carries you're never going to be able to solve that without compromising the picture somehow.

Marcelo,

Just FYI for all... I have the 971 w/SDI to my VP-50 to my Pio 5070 Plasma, and while it looks ok... the SD from my Toshiba HD-XA1 absolutely destroys it... It's really the best SD playback I've seen... And needless to say the HD from HD-DVD's are awesome. There are some sceaming deals on first gen players right now... Much less than a 971 w/ SDI!

Best,

Roydrage


I did a shootout with my 790 through the VP50 and a friends 971 via SDI... using the same disc on both .....

even though I'm perfectly happy with my 970 and is incredible bang for your buck ... with very good discs & clean images, the picture out of the SDI was 'sharper & clearer' and more 3D ...

now.. .that isn't to say its worth spending another $400-600 bucks to get SDI ... but it was slightly more 3D and cleaner....

that said... I'm still with my 970 and still happy with it..

PS: compared to the 971 via DVI @ 576p ... both other options SDI or 970 were much, much better....

Marcelo,

Just FYI for all... I have the 971 w/SDI to my VP-50 to my Pio 5070 Plasma, and while it looks ok... the SD from my Toshiba HD-XA1 absolutely destroys it... It's really the best SD playback I've seen... And needless to say the HD from HD-DVD's are awesome. There are some sceaming deals on first gen players right now... Much less than a 971 w/ SDI!

Best,

Roydrage

I also agree with your opinion regarding comparing a 971 SDI modified against a Toshiba HD-XA1 while viewing SD discs. In fact my OPPO 971 with SDI mod is listed for sale in the MarketPlace forum.

However, If you compare a Panasonic RP82 SD modified player against the Toshiba HD-XA1 you would probably never view another SD disc on the Toshiba again.

It's that good!

Gary

Marcelo,

Just FYI for all... I have the 971 w/SDI to my VP-50 to my Pio 5070 Plasma, and while it looks ok... the SD from my Toshiba HD-XA1 absolutely destroys it... It's really the best SD playback I've seen... And needless to say the HD from HD-DVD's are awesome. There are some sceaming deals on first gen players right now... Much less than a 971 w/ SDI!

Best,

Roydrage

That's good news for my A1 :D.

I assume you were using HDMI with the Tosh, correct. What resolution was it outputting?
____
Axel

Hello,
I would be very obliged,if anyone who has this model and has also a Iscan vp50 confirm,that the plasma does indeed benifit from the use of the vp 50 with it,both in sd and hd.The model listed is the EU one yours is the FHD1 but just the same.I have tried units like the Vantage in the past and have found no benifit
Many thanks for any help
alwyn

Just wanted to recommend a handy add on for the Vpx0 range,

Octava HDS32 (http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%20switch%203x2%20port.html)

In effect it gives you 2 switchable HDMI outputs (i.e. TV & PJ).

Plus 2 switchable HDMI inputs that bypass the VPx0 (i.e. PC).

IR controled, auto input switching and improves signal quality over long runs.

Just wanted to recommend a handy add on for the Vpx0 range,

Octava HDS32 (http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%20switch%203x2%20port.html)

In effect it gives you 2 switchable HDMI outputs (i.e. TV & PJ).

Plus 2 switchable HDMI inputs that bypass the VPx0 (i.e. PC).

IR controlled, auto input switching and improves signal quality over long runs.That's a potentially useful suggestion; thanks. (Although the product page doesn't mention how it handles HDCP [as a repeater or, better, as a sink and source] or audio [I assume it's HDMI 1.1 with audio, but who knows?].)

I have an external HDMI switch that selects either my VP50 or my computer, and then a splitter to send that output to either my LCD or my projector. This box would combine those, except its lack of separate digital audio kills it for me.

I use the VP50 as a switch and route my audio through it, so I can't integrate the HDMI-only Octava switch without switching to all-HDMI audio. That won't work because 1) I hear the VP50 still has some HDMI audio issues, and 2) my stupid audio receiver crashes when I send it 1080p or better video along with the audio on HDMI.

This is all relevant to the VP50 thread because I shouldn't even have to worry about it. DVDO still hasn't delivered the promised HDMI passthrough feature that would let me just pass my computer's output through the VP50 and not need an inelegant external HDMI switch (although I'd still need the HDMI splitter until an iScan hardware revision with two HDMI outputs). I intend to keep mentioning this every couple of months until they keep their word, because they deserve a little ongoing public embarrassment for it. I was hoping it would be in the new firmware. (Props for fixing the audio dropout glitch, though. It seems to be gone for me.)

I have the VP50 with the latest beta software installed. I tried to connect a PS3 via HDMI to it today. For a fraction a second I get the display to show the PS3 picture but then the screen turns black. The light on the VP50 flashes blue. HDCP is turned 'on' in the VP50. Turning it 'off' still doesnt show a picture but going back to 'on' again displays the picture for a fraction of a second and then the screen goes black. Obviously, it is a handshake problem. Anyone have any ideas how to fix this?

I have the VP50 with the latest beta software installed. I tried to connect a PS3 via HDMI to it today. For a fraction a second I get the display to show the PS3 picture but then the screen turns black. The light on the VP50 flashes blue. HDCP is turned 'on' in the VP50. Turning it 'off' still doesnt show a picture but going back to 'on' again displays the picture for a fraction of a second and then the screen goes black. Obviously, it is a handshake problem. Anyone have any ideas how to fix this?

Just an idea...

With the PS3 turned off.

Turn on the display and the VP50 and select the associated input on the VP50 prior to turning on the PS3 and see if that helps.

Just an idea...

With the PS3 turned off.

Turn on the display and the VP50 and select the associated input on the VP50 prior to turning on the PS3 and see if that helps.


Thanks, I already tried that one too and it didnt work.

Thanks, I already tried that one too and it didn't work.Make sure HDCP is on for both the inputs and the output on the VP50. For some reason, the software allows you to have HDCP off for the output but on for the inputs, which doesn't actually work.

Wow Gary...

Yes I saw your post after I wrote mine... I'm really glad we see the same thing... Very impressed with the SD on the Tosh... Now that I know you see what I see, I trust that the RP82w/ SDI to the 50 would be better... I have a lot of SD DVD's So I'm really thinking of getting one on your word... If I can... I know Gary is into the panny's mabye he could hook me up!

Thanks man..

RoydRage

I also agree with your opinion regarding comparing a 971 SDI modified against a Toshiba HD-XA1 while viewing SD discs. In fact my OPPO 971 with SDI mod is listed for sale in the MarketPlace forum.

However, If you compare a Panasonic RP82 SD modified player against the Toshiba HD-XA1 you would probably never view another SD disc on the Toshiba again.

It's that good!

Gary

Wow Gary...

Yes I saw your post after I wrote mine... I'm really glad we see the same thing... Very impressed with the SD on the Tosh... Now that I know you see what I see, I trust that the RP82w/ SDI to the 50 would be better... I have a lot of SD DVD's So I'm really thinking of getting one on your word... If I can... I know Gary is into the panny's mabye he could hook me up!

Thanks man..

RoydRage

give me a PM if I can help in anyway, thanks a bunch dude ;)

-Gary

After spending hours trying to get the VP50 to distribute to 3 different displays using the Gefen EXT-HDMI-144, I finally got it to work, except the dreaded HDMI audio from my Sony DVR (HDD250) caused it to crash the audio(via hdmi) (only dolby digital, PCM still works) and it handshakes fine with my Samsung DLP, Mits Projector and my Olevia LCD TV, no problems. Since the Olevia only passes PCM over the HDMI (it outputs the AC3/DD to a tosslink), I usually leave it in PCM anyways. It was very difficult to get this to work and is not for the faint at heart, put it this way, powering everything down and making the connections then powering it up WILL NOT work, it crashed the VP50, everytime.

Jim

I have the VP50 with the latest beta software installed. I tried to connect a PS3 via HDMI to it today. For a fraction a second I get the display to show the PS3 picture but then the screen turns black. The light on the VP50 flashes blue. HDCP is turned 'on' in the VP50. Turning it 'off' still doesnt show a picture but going back to 'on' again displays the picture for a fraction of a second and then the screen goes black. Obviously, it is a handshake problem. Anyone have any ideas how to fix this?

I have a problem where it occasionally does the flashing blue light on the VP50 and the PS3, usually after i stop playing a bluray movie and go back to main menu or when PS3 switches modes. I just turn the VP50 off (via remote) and turn it back on and it usually fixes it. Rather annoying since it does it often but I can get the picture to come back and stay on.

Hello,
I would be very obliged,if anyone who has this model and has also a Iscan vp50 confirm,that the plasma does indeed benifit from the use of the vp 50 with it,both in sd and hd.The model listed is the EU one yours is the FHD1 but just the same.I have tried units like the Vantage in the past and have found no benifit
Many thanks for any help
alwyn
Didn't Stoomonster answer that question in his AVF thread? No harm looking for a 2nd opinion of course :)

Hi everybody,

I would like to Know if the VP50 can accept 24P in output ?
If not, what's gonna happen with the next Pioneer Blu-Ray player ?

Also, I rode on this forum a lot of good things about the Pannys players wSDI.
However, theses players doesn't exist in France.
Could you tell me what is the best PAL DVD player wSDI for the VP50


Thank you for your help !

Well, the Pioneer will still be able to output 1080i/60 and 1080p/60 I think? The vp50 can accept either of those and output 1080p/24 or 1080p/60

I don't know if the Pioneer EU model will be 1080/50 but it doesn't matter, the vp50 can handle that too.

p.s. welcome ;)

Thanks Choddo for your answer, (& for the welcome)

Yes, the Pioneer will be able to output 1080i.p/60.

But, I think the results of PQ will be better without the conversion :

Disc 24P==>Players convert to 1080i==>VP50 converts to 24P==>Display device.

Am I wrong ?

Updated to 1.01 this afternoon and have a serious problem. Before I updated my out res was 1080i. Now it won't accept the 1080i and will use 720 (it's native res). I'm ok with the 720p (and prefer that over 1080), but using another input (svid1) the tv will not recognize 720 but only 480p. Components 1&2 will see the 720 just not svid 1 & 2.

This sucks. Back to v1.00 and hopefully that will work again.

I have a problem where it occasionally does the flashing blue light on the VP50 and the PS3, usually after i stop playing a bluray movie and go back to main menu or when PS3 switches modes. I just turn the VP50 off (via remote) and turn it back on and it usually fixes it. Rather annoying since it does it often but I can get the picture to come back and stay on.

I tried the remote on/off and it doesnt work. It looks like the curtains just close on the picuture. That is the best description I can give. I even tried a HDMI to DVI to HDMI cable hoping maybe it would work and it doesnt.

The HDCP is on for devices. Infact, DVDO recognizes the signal when I goto to the 'info' screen saying that it is 480p with HDCP but it wont show anything. Blue light keeps flashing.



Any more ideas?

After a reboot to defaults, audio HDMI DD audio is working again, maybe if DVDO gave an option of a selectable length to mute when resyncing on a audio source so the problem with HDMI audio crashing could be eliminated, of course it would take an extra second or so to change sources, but atleast it would work and it would be in the end-user decision on how long to mute depending on the equipment attached and how it reacts to switching.

After a reboot to defaults, audio HDMI DD audio is working again, maybe if DVDO gave an option of a selectable length to mute when resyncing on a audio source so the problem with HDMI audio crashing could be eliminated, of course it would take an extra second or so to change sources, but atleast it would work and it would be in the end-user decision on how long to mute depending on the equipment attached and how it reacts to switching.

Are you running 1.0.1 or 1.0? This would happen to me all the time with my TiVos on 1.0. I never had to do a reset to defaults, but I did need to pull AC power to fix it.

On 1.0.1 it happens less frequently (twice so far) and also so far has been correctable by switching to another input and back, no restart needed.

- Collin

Did you try disabling the TiVo sounds?

Did you try disabling the TiVo sounds?

I always run with the sounds disabled. I find them annoying. But I watch a mix of SD and HD. More SD than HD really. So the TiVo output is constantly switching between DD and PCM. IIRC you almost exclusively watch HD (impressive) so perhaps with the sounds off you're sending DD almost all the time from your TiVos. Just a theory.

- Collin

Does the VP50 has any feature that will remove the top/bottom bars on my display when watching a DVD? Wasn't sure if this was possible to change the format, removing the bars without alternating the image quality. I found a feature in one of the menus on the VP50 that allowed me to move the screen up/down to fill the screen, but it really stretched the image and takes away from the picture. I'm hoping there is another way of doing this that I'm not aware of?

You can use the ZOOM feature to expand the picture both vertical and horizonal. I create several presets with different zoom amounts (hor and ver always equal to the same amount). I know this is horrible for the purists out there (you do lose some picture content), but it works well to expand the picture. You don't always have to expand the picture to completely get rid of the black bars (sometimes this is too much for a 2.35:1 movie). However, zooming a bit doesn't hurt and is why I have a VP50 which gives me this exact control over the picture. SJ

Anyone actually inputting a PS3 into the VP50 (via HDMI)? Does the audio come out the digital connection (coax/optical) in 5.1? Thanks. SJ

Anyone :)?

Could you tell me what is the best PAL DVD player wSDI for the VP50

Thank you for your help !

Please could someone of the SDI specialists try to answer this question.

Which is "the best" MPEG decoder at present and in which PAL DVD players is it integrated?

Is there a visible difference between feeding SDI or HDMI with 480i/576i to the VP-50 from the same DVD player?

Please could someone of the SDI specialists try to answer this question.

Which is "the best" MPEG decoder at present and in which PAL DVD players is it integrated?

Is there a visible difference between feeding SDI or HDMI with 480i/576i to the VP-50 from the same DVD player?

The RP-82 based platforms we're talking about are based on the MEI MN67753IKA MPEG decoder. The decoder definitely handles PAL. I play both PAL and NTSC discs on my setup all the time. I don't know what, if any, European players it was integrated into, though with a region free mod it might not matter if you get US model. Note that nobody has integrated the MN67753IKA in years, so you have to look in the used market.

The company I've used to get my players SDI and region modified is jvbdigital.com which is actually a Dutch company with a European website at jvb.nl.

- Collin

Thanks Choddo for your answer, (& for the welcome)

Yes, the Pioneer will be able to output 1080i.p/60.

But, I think the results of PQ will be better without the conversion :

Disc 24P==>Players convert to 1080i==>VP50 converts to 24P==>Display device.

Am I wrong ?
Actually it's probably almost identical with film sources over a digital connection.

That's a potentially useful suggestion; thanks. (Although the product page doesn't mention how it handles HDCP [as a repeater or, better, as a sink and source] or audio [I assume it's HDMI 1.1 with audio, but who knows?].)


It is a little lacking in detail, I believe it is HDMI 1.2a and does support audio (although I don't have a HDMI display/amp to verify that just yet). Not certain about the HDCP mode but it does work and because you always have a 1:1 source to sink relationship (it's a switch not a distribution amp like most of the Gefens) the EDID etc handshake should be correct for the display that's active.

My audio goes straight from the VP50 SPDIF output to my amp and again for the PC via SPDIF.

But yeah if the VP50 had pass-thru and two HDMI outputs (three would be better, TV, PJ and Amp for 5.1PCM ;) ) then I wouldn't need it. :)

Are you running 1.0.1 or 1.0? This would happen to me all the time with my TiVos on 1.0. I never had to do a reset to defaults, but I did need to pull AC power to fix it.

On 1.0.1 it happens less frequently (twice so far) and also so far has been correctable by switching to another input and back, no restart needed.

- Collin

I am running 1.01 and now I just leave the Sony DVR in PCM mode until I need it to be in DD mode, after watching what I want in DD mode, I would set it back to PCM so it will not cause the HDMI audio to crash again, seems to be the only way to prevent it unless DVDO does something to help.

OK, if I'm trying to use the VP50 for 2-3 different displays, can I split it by using this 1x2 (http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=2514) or 1x3 (http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=3936) without problems?

Not certain about the HDCP mode but it does work and because you always have a 1:1 source to sink relationship (it's a switch not a distribution amp like most of the Gefens) the EDID etc handshake should be correct for the display that's active.Oh, right. I was thinking of both outputs being active, like the Gefens. That's what I have, so when I change displays, I only have to select a new display profile on the VP50. I don't have to switch the HDMI output because they're both always on. What would be best would be if the VP70 or whatever had multiple outputs built in, each with an automatically associated output profile (whether they were simultaneously active or not). But that's for the future; the current lack of HDMI passthrough bothers me a lot more, though.

sidb - which Gefens do you have?

Anyone :)?

I answered this post back here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9030131&&#post9030131

short answer, yes it outputs in 5.1 from digital coax output. let me know if you want me to try anything else with the PS3 and VP50.

sidb - which Gefens do you have?Only my input switcher is Gefen. It is some weird conglomeration of two HDMI inputs, one DVI output, plus matching optical and coax audio in/out, plus a contact-closure port for switching, which I have wired to a little momentary switch mounted next to my computer. (It has IR, too, but I don't need that.) Half the ports are on the front, and half are on the back. I can't account for how they designed it--probably based on the simplest PCB layout or something--but it works. I use it with a DVI Detective to make my computer like it.

The computer (and matching audio) goes into one HDMI, the VP50 (with audio) into the other, and the DVI out goes to the splitter, which then goes to the displays, while the audio out goes directly to the receiver.

What I would like would be for the computer and its audio to plug into the VP50, say on HDMI-2, and for that input to be selectable for passthrough with the correct matching audio, even though the VP50 can't understand my computer's 1920x1200 output.

The company I've used to get my players SDI and region modified is jvbdigital.com


FWIW, I noticed they list an HD-SDI mod for the Toshy XA1.

Unfortunately, the price is outrageous. :(

Need some advice.

Got my new Panasonic TH-65PX600U 65" 1080P Plasma and VP50 all hooked up.

My devices are:
2 Directv HR10-250 Tivo's
1 Momitsu DVD Player
1 Xbox

How should I set everything up? I have set the VP50 to output 1080P-60.

What would be my optimal setup? Or any tips. I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks.

Just a FYI: DVDO told me that the Gefen splitters do not work with the VP50 and that an error code is generated when it is used. I was able to get it to work (with the limitations that I stated above), so YMMV.

Jim

Hello,
I would be very obliged,if anyone who has this model and has also a Iscan vp50 confirm,that the plasma does indeed benifit from the use of the vp 50 with it,both in sd and hd.The model listed is the EU one yours is the FHD1 but just the same.I have tried units like the Vantage in the past and have found no benifit
Many thanks for any help
alwyn


Hi Im testing the lot tomorrow (with the 5000EX which is a fantastic plasma) and keep you posted. I already have the VP50 for a short while but was not able to identify significant improvements. I now have a Humax 2000 (HD-SATbox) connected via a scart to Svideo because it does not have an interlaced signal out otherwise. I can now test PREP via HDMI vs i signals. Furthermore I own a Pio SACD player which I'll test and a Sony PS2 and a WII. I also have a testmodel at this moment from Pixelmagic (PEP) for the SD stuff Dealer says it would do a better job to SD compared to the VP50 If so I might swap my VP50 to a CII. Well a lot to do I'll inform you as soon as I have results.

Just a FYI: DVDO told me that the Gefen splitters do not work with the VP50 and that an error code is generated when it is used. I was able to get it to work (with the limitations that I stated above), so YMMV.

Jim
I'm using a monoprice switcher for both blu-ray and hd-dvd and it has worked perfectly with the VP50

I'm using a monoprice switcher for both blu-ray and hd-dvd and it has worked perfectly with the VP50

Switcher or Splitter? I was specifying a Gefen splitter, this is what I got from Erin.

I have used two different gefen products and will never buy from gefen again. Their hdmi switches cause edid problems even without hdcp in the mix. They have far too many products and are unable to adequately support them with timely fixes. My advice is get a cheaper product like the octava brand, you may well still have problems but won't have spent extra for them.

How about the VP50 in 2.35:1 Constant Image Height setups using an anamorphic lens?

I was just about to order a Crystallio II when I saw that it cannot output a stable cadence locked image when the image is also stretched for this purpose.

I am in Australia so my experience before Blu Ray was with PAL SD DVDs with an output of 50Hz. The Blu Ray discs we are getting here though are the same as the US with 60Hz output. I am experiencing judder to a greater extent than before. I was about to order the Crystallio II for its cadence lock feature hoping that would eliminate the problem. I read however on the Pixelmagic forum that the latest firmware does not solve the issue for CIH setups.


I wish to output 1080p/60Hz from my Panasonic Blu-Ray player then get the VP50 to both stretch and do frame rate conversion to 1080p24 to eliminate judder. I have a Panasonic AX-100 that will apparently accept this 1080p24 signal. I am new to all this and would appreciate some advice.
Is my logic correct and can the DVDO do this?

Just a FYI: DVDO told me that the Gefen splitters do not work with the VP50 and that an error code is generated when it is used. I was able to get it to work (with the limitations that I stated above), so YMMV. You have a Gefen splitter that works with the VP50 except for some HDMI audio problems?

How about the VP50 in 2.35:1 Constant Image Height setups using an anamorphic lens?


Hi Craig, VP50 should be fine for this... I have the Toshiba XA1 connected via 1080i60 and its deinterlacing to 1080p48 with great cadence detection. It also does a great job of 2:2 for your 50Hz sources! And it has great Aspect Ratio controls which make running a 2.35:1 CIH setup a breeze.

You have a Gefen splitter that works with the VP50 except for some HDMI audio problems?


Yes, I have the Gefen EXT-HDMI-144-BLK ( http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=3354 ) and it works, but it took me a few hours to figure out how to connect it up so that it would not crash my VP50 (it caused rolling lines all over the my display devices). The only limitation is that I leave ALL audio in PCM mode when switching the devices, then I change it back to Dolby Digital when I want it in that mode. But you need to switch it back to PCM before you change the input again, but this is only when your HDMI source is the audio source also.

Jim

I seem to recall a mention about an underscan setting with the VP50, was I just imagining it? I've noticed that when compared to an HTPC output of a HD TV channel to the output of the TiVo S3, the S3 overscans like a maddog, and I'm not sure it that can be corrected with the VP50. The display itself, a 73" CRT-based RPTV may need some adjustment, but I'm fairly certain it's not off as much as I'm seeing.

Hi Craig, VP50 should be fine for this... I have the Toshiba XA1 connected via 1080i60 and its deinterlacing to 1080p48 with great cadence detection. It also does a great job of 2:2 for your 50Hz sources! And it has great Aspect Ratio controls which make running a 2.35:1 CIH setup a breeze.

Many thanks Gino,

So you have no image stability issues with CIH and the VP50? Do you notice an improvement in the judder? Sorry to be a bit obsessive but I am about to order one!! Did you source your's in Aus or internationally?

My suggestions on setting up the VP50 with the Panny plasma (or any digital based display):

I am assuming you will be using digital (HDMI) out. Work the output configuration first. Do what you need to do on the VP50 and the Plasma to get it operating at the plasma's native resolution (1920x1080?) And verify that with the three test patterns (vertical 1 pixel lines, Horizontal 1 pixel lines and 1 pixel crosshatch pattern. If you get that correct then there is Very probably no conversions (scaling) going on after the signal leaves the VP50 so you will not be rescaling a scaled image. Do not touch the output anymore as long as you use this display.

Now work the sources one at a time. Set the DVR's (if possible) to output the resolution they receive from the transmission head end. This will stop the DVR from scaling the image. There may be a passthrough mode that does the same thing. The DVR's will never see a 1080p signal as that is not broadcast.

For the DVD player set it to output 480i (assuming USA standard and not PAL). This will cause it not to scale (one hopes) since the DVD is recorded at 480i. If you set it to output 480p then it will do the de-interlacing.

With regard to the XBOX I will have to punt as I have a PS2. I run my PS2 at 720p out.

I do have twin DVD megchangers and two SA8300HD DVR's

Only the DVR's along with the PC are HDMI feeds, all other gear use Component signals. The PC controls the entire theater (puts out IR and RS232) and displays the DVD library on the screen for DVD selection. Much like an Escient system. but much better IMHO since I designed and wrote it (I am very humble). Adding a new disk is as simple as entering a UPC number (DVD Profiler), saving the output file for the librarian, and copying over rhe DVD front cover image. All of the DVD data and Film data can be brought up on the big screen along with the cover art, but normally it just shows a 2 up listing of the library.

I am having a problem with my VP50. It exhibits audio distortion at times (severl times an hour for a milisecond or two) on DD 5.1 signals. I am currently piped around the VP50. I have a good working relationship with DVDO so I am sure they will exchange it if it turns out to be a hardware problem.

Having said all of the above. What ever turns out to give you the best picture is what is best for you. It would be a shame if the best picture was obtained by letting the display do all the scaling, but I doubt that will be the case. What you want to avoid is something doing scaling then something either undoing that or rescaling it, and then another device doing scaling again.

hi folks,

i'm ready to jump on the sdi wagon and am looking for the best price for the sdi board to go into my vp50.

i see that dvdo is selling an sdi-601a board, but have also found very good prices for an sdi-601.

can someone tell me what the difference is between the 601 and 601a, if it is significant, and suggested places to purchase the sdi card.

thanks

I seem to recall a mention about an underscan setting with the VP50, was I just imagining it? I've noticed that when compared to an HTPC output of a HD TV channel to the output of the TiVo S3, the S3 overscans like a maddog, and I'm not sure it that can be corrected with the VP50. The display itself, a 73" CRT-based RPTV may need some adjustment, but I'm fairly certain it's not off as much as I'm seeing.

It's there. Output Setup -> Aspect Ratio -> Underscan. Adjust underscan until you can see the outer white border of the blue boxes on the Frame/Geometry test pattern. Then use the Input Adjust -> Overscan to tune overscan per input & format. You'll probably need some overscan on the S3 to hide the noise in the overscan area on SD channels.

- Collin

Hi Craig, VP50 should be fine for this... I have the Toshiba XA1 connected via 1080i60 and its deinterlacing to 1080p48 with great cadence detection. It also does a great job of 2:2 for your 50Hz sources! And it has great Aspect Ratio controls which make running a 2.35:1 CIH setup a breeze.

I'll second this. I'm running a CIH screen at 48hz (NTSC) and 50hz (PAL) frame lock. The VP50 works great for this application.

It's there. Output Setup -> Aspect Ratio -> Underscan. Adjust underscan until you can see the outer white border of the blue boxes on the Frame/Geometry test pattern. Then use the Input Adjust -> Overscan to tune overscan per input & format. You'll probably need some overscan on the S3 to hide the noise in the overscan area on SD channels.

- Collin
Thanks, I thought it was there somewhere. I'll try it in the AM. Is this a global setting, or per input/profile? I don't want to change the settings for other inputs.

Yes, no doubt it will need some to cover the close-captioning, but I was really amazed at how much it was overscanning compared to a HTPC output of the same channel from the same source, Comcast in the bay area.

Thanks, I thought it was there somewhere. I'll try it in the AM. Is this a global setting, or per input/profile? I don't want to change the settings for other inputs.

Yes, no doubt it will need some to cover the close-captioning, but I was really amazed at how much it was overscanning compared to a HTPC output of the same channel from the same source, Comcast in the bay area.

Underscan is global to compensate for excess overscan in the display. Overscan is per input and per format to crop of anything unsightly on a particular input.

The S3 is not adding any excessive overscan on my setup. Once I compensate for my display's overscan with the underscan control I actually need to add a little overscan to the S3 input to crop out the CC area.

- Collin

Underscan is global to compensate for excess overscan in the display. Overscan is per input and per format to crop of anything unsightly on a particular input.

The S3 is not adding any excessive overscan on my setup. Once I compensate for my display's overscan with the underscan control I actually need to add a little overscan to the S3 input to crop out the CC area.

- Collin
Okay, I see what you're doing, which is probably the right way to do it, instead using a single source as a baseline.

So I should set the underscan on the display with the VP50 generated test pattern, and then adjust overscan per input as needed.

I'll second this. I'm running a CIH screen at 48hz (NTSC) and 50hz (PAL) frame lock. The VP50 works great for this application.

Thanks guys,

I will order one!! :D

Okay, I see what you're doing, which is probably the right way to do it, instead using a single source as a baseline.

So I should set the underscan on the display with the VP50 generated test pattern, and then adjust overscan per input as needed.

Exactly. I've got underscan set to about 8 to compensate for my Samsung DLP overscan. I run with 0 overscan on DVD so I'm able to see the entire image. With the S3 I run between 1.5% and 3% overscan depending on the input format (1080i, 480i, 720p) to crop off noise in the refresh area.

BTW still no problems with the S3 native rate switching with either 1.0 or 1.0.1 beta firmware.

Cheers,
Collin

Many thanks Gino,

So you have no image stability issues with CIH and the VP50? Do you notice an improvement in the judder? Sorry to be a bit obsessive but I am about to order one!! Did you source your's in Aus or internationally?

Image stability? Dont see any judder. Sourced through AVS.

I answered this post back here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9030131&&#post9030131

short answer, yes it outputs in 5.1 from digital coax output. let me know if you want me to try anything else with the PS3 and VP50.

Not sure how I missed this post :confused: , but thank you! SJ

Exactly. I've got underscan set to about 8 to compensate for my Samsung DLP overscan. I run with 0 overscan on DVD so I'm able to see the entire image. With the S3 I run between 1.5% and 3% overscan depending on the input format (1080i, 480i, 720p) to crop off noise in the refresh area.

BTW still no problems with the S3 native rate switching with either 1.0 or 1.0.1 beta firmware.

Cheers,
Collin
I'm going to delve into in a little while here.

I'm not sure what's going on with that native switching thing, I think it's probably my display although it worked fine initially. There's also a chance it's the commands coming from my Harmony 880, I seem to recall that I sped up the commands on the remote to get more responsiveness with the S3 menus and the problem may have started then. I'm going to slow down the remote and see if that does it, I can deal with slow menus if I can get native switching to work again.

I'm still running 1.0 as I've been reading about some funkiness with 1.0.1 although I'll probably upgrade it anyways.

XBOX HD DVD through the VP50
Santa Clause (the dutch one also arrives aroud the 5th of december) brought me a XBOX with a us HD DVD. Everything works ok (No 1080P over component though) During playback via the VP50 I see a lot of stills. Ive tried al settings but could not get rid of it. After this I connected my Pio 5000 EX directly with the component cable and no hick ups. Did someone had the same problem?
Any help is much appriciated

It's there. Output Setup -> Aspect Ratio -> Underscan. Adjust underscan until you can see the outer white border of the blue boxes on the Frame/Geometry test pattern. Then use the Input Adjust -> Overscan to tune overscan per input & format. You'll probably need some overscan on the S3 to hide the noise in the overscan area on SD channels.

- Collin
When I set the underscan by adjusting until I see the white border all the way around the blue box test screen I get small pillarboxes on the image from a DirecTV HDTiVo, and no amount of overscan adjustment will remove them. The image gets bigger, but the pillars remain. The rest of the inputs seem to be fine, but setting the underscan "large" enough to remove the pillars on the HDTiVo input upsets the settings on the other inputs, I can't adjust the overscan down to what it should be. It's as if the HDTiVo is outputting a smaller image than the standard 16x9, like say 15.5x9 or 15x9.

Sorry if this has already been covered, I just can't keep up with this thread and searching yielded mixed results.

I'm running an Oppo 970HD into the VP via HDMI (along with other inputs). From the VP I am running HDMI into my AVR (HK 745). From the HK I am running HDMI into my panny 900. (I have the video processor of the HK in "bypass" and it just strips the sound data for processing).

I have installed the new firmware on the VP. I had some troubles with that and mentioned them earlier in this thread, but all's good now. :)

OK, here's my problem.

If I play DVD's, HD DVD's or just satellite feed, sound is working just fine (as far as a newbie can tell anyway). However, when I play an SACD in the OPPO, I get no sound at all. The player is playing, but I get no sound. I've tried messing with the Oppo's audio settings with no luck. I know from past experience that the Oppo will not pass SACD sound via coax or optical and will only pass it via HDMI or the 5.1 analogue cables.

Is the VP not passing this SACD data to the AVR?? Do I have to run a Coax audio cable to the AVR?

Oh, I have not experienced any of the audio drop outs that others have noted earlier in this thread.

When I set the underscan by adjusting until I see the white border all the way around the blue box test screen I get small pillarboxes on the image from a DirecTV HDTiVo, and no amount of overscan adjustment will remove them. The image gets bigger, but the pillars remain. The rest of the inputs seem to be fine, but setting the underscan "large" enough to remove the pillars on the HDTiVo input upsets the settings on the other inputs, I can't adjust the overscan down to what it should be. It's as if the HDTiVo is outputting a smaller image than the standard 16x9, like say 15.5x9 or 15x9.

Weird. Try looking at "Messages & Settings -> Settings -> Video -> TV Aspect Correction" on the HD DirecTiVo. You want aspect correction set to "Full" and to use the DVDO for aspect correction. Also "TV Aspect Ratio" in the same menu should be set to 16:9 assuming your running a widescreen display. Another option you could play with in that menu is the Letterbox Color option to see if it's the TiVo is adding pillarboxing.

I usually run 1080i out of the HD DirecTiVo and have overscan set to about 3.0%. There's no border on the output for me. I only bump overscan to chop off vertical refresh noise. I would expect yours to be similar if not identical, since we're talking about the same hardware, though I suppose different output configurations could skew things a bit between our setups.

- Collin

I strongly suspect that the VP50 will not pass SACD audio . Better check with DVDO

Weird. Try looking at "Messages & Settings -> Settings -> Video -> TV Aspect Correction" on the HD DirecTiVo. You want aspect correction set to "Full" and to use the DVDO for aspect correction. Also "TV Aspect Ratio" in the same menu should be set to 16:9 assuming your running a widescreen display. Another option you could play with in that menu is the Letterbox Color option to see if it's the TiVo is adding pillarboxing.

I usually run 1080i out of the HD DirecTiVo and have overscan set to about 3.0%. There's no border on the output for me. I only bump overscan to chop off vertical refresh noise. I would expect yours to be similar if not identical, since we're talking about the same hardware, though I suppose different output configurations could skew things a bit between our setups.

- Collin
That was it, it was set to panel, not sure how it got that way, maybe when the ver. 6 TiVo upgrade downloaded, although I admit I haven't really been attention to the over/underscan setting lately. It only came up because I noticed the differences in the images from the same source I mentioned earlier.

It looks like my display is due for a calibration as well as I have to run the underscan setting up to almost 30 before I can see the top and bottom white lines on the blue box test image, and that can't be right.

You know, I'm still not sure exactly what's going on with this, but when setting the underscan to see the white lines, the visible image ends up with small borders on the left and right sides which can not be eliminated by adjusting the overscan for the source. I think I need to get the overscan re-set on the display and go through all this again.

You know, I'm still not sure exactly what's going on with this, but when setting the underscan to see the white lines, the visible image ends up with small borders on the left and right sides which can not be eliminated by adjusting the overscan for the source. I think I need to get the overscan re-set on the display and go through all this again.

Sounds like the projector in your RPTV isn't making an exact 1.78 image. This happens. It can be corrected for with the DVDO. Try adjusting "Output Setup -> Aspect Ratio -> Display -> User" IIRC you will want to reduce the value from the default 1.78. As you fix the aspect ratio you will likely need to readjust underscan. You should be able to get it so the outer white border of the Frame/Geometry test pattern fills your screen exactly.

- Collin

Sounds like the projector in your RPTV isn't making an exact 1.78 image. This happens. It can be corrected for with the DVDO. Try adjusting "Output Setup -> Aspect Ratio -> Display -> User" IIRC you will want to reduce the value from the default 1.78. As you fix the aspect ratio you will likely need to readjust underscan. You should be able to get it so the outer white border of the Frame/Geometry test pattern fills your screen exactly.

- Collin
It does sound like that's problem. I'll give the DVDO setting a try, but I'm certain now that I need to get the display calibrated again, it's been over a year. I was waiting to do the check-up as I thought I was going to move, as it turns out I bought the place instead. Money for these sorts of toys has suddenly become scarce. :p

lol...this is "fun", bouncing back and forth between the settings to get as close as I can to what it should be. Got it pretty close, but I'm afraid some of the settingsa are on the bizarre side..need to eat some dinner and watch the football game and tackle it again later.

With the S3 for source, I have the following settings and I still can't get the full box of white lines on the test pattern.

Overscan: 3%
Underscan: 18
Display/user 1.84:1

Methinks a cal is definitely in order.

Well, for some reason after I updated with the new software I'm getting almost constant audio dropouts. I did get a few before but nothing like now. Its on a Directivo, and I'm aware of the 6.3 problems it has, but that was already on the Tivo before updating the DVDO.

Before I might get a quick drop ever 10 minutes maybe, but now it's doing good to play 2 minutes. Also they vary in length but 2-3 seconds is average, with some really quick ones also. Its about unuseable this way because I can have many with minutes, and while they do stop for longer periods of time, normally they don't.

What I find weird is reading the few comments I have seen addressing the audio dropouts with this release, is that for the most part they are either gone or much less. Thats backward from what I'm getting. I updated the day after it was released and was actually blaming the Directivo for the increase until tonight.

I use a HTPC for DVD and that appears to be fine, but I never had many with that anyway.

The dropouts are there whether I use optical or HDMI. When I hook up the Directivo straight to the receiver I no longer get them. Its a Yamaha receiver.

I haven't tried a hard reset and I really doubt that would do anything, but I guess I could try it, just hate to redo the settings.

So, for me this update hasn't been good, but I like PREP and rather not go back. I assume reloading the software wouldn't do any good ?

Amazing amount of audio problems they've had on the vp30 & 50, but for me it wasn't really bad until now. So unless I'm missing something I guess I'll have to go straight to the receiver and hope its better with the next update.

From the VP30 days I learned that it is usually a good idea to do another reset to defaults after any firmware upgrade. Although they will automatically do one after the upload it was quite often the case that people would have odd issues until they did another one. :rolleyes:

It may not help of course. ;)

Alternatively wait for the final release of 1.01 and do a hard reset after that.

There are certainly others on here running the same hardware so hopefully they can confirm if theres are working.

(I had the typical one/hour average <1sec drop outs on all sources using a Yamaha amp till the 1.01 firmware, don't think I've heard one since).

Sorry if this has already been covered, I just can't keep up with this thread and searching yielded mixed results.

I'm running an Oppo 970HD into the VP via HDMI (along with other inputs). From the VP I am running HDMI into my AVR (HK 745). From the HK I am running HDMI into my panny 900. (I have the video processor of the HK in "bypass" and it just strips the sound data for processing).

I have installed the new firmware on the VP. I had some troubles with that and mentioned them earlier in this thread, but all's good now. :)

OK, here's my problem.

If I play DVD's, HD DVD's or just satellite feed, sound is working just fine (as far as a newbie can tell anyway). However, when I play an SACD in the OPPO, I get no sound at all. The player is playing, but I get no sound. I've tried messing with the Oppo's audio settings with no luck. I know from past experience that the Oppo will not pass SACD sound via coax or optical and will only pass it via HDMI or the 5.1 analogue cables.

Is the VP not passing this SACD data to the AVR?? Do I have to run a Coax audio cable to the AVR?

Oh, I have not experienced any of the audio drop outs that others have noted earlier in this thread.

Quote from the advanced audio setup manual of the 970HD:

Tech Note
HDMI is a wonderful thing. A single cable can transport both audio AND
video from your DVD player to your display. Be aware, however, that
HDMI is an evolving standard, and there could be compatibility issues.
The OPPO DV-970HD supports HDMI 1.1 audio. A receiver that supports
HDMI 1.1 is required in order to play multi-channel audio for all formats,
including DVD-Video/Audio and SACD (SACD DSD audio converted to
multi-channel PCM). If the receiver supports HDMI 1.0 only, DVD-Audio
and SACD will NOT be able to be sent via HDMI. To utlize DVD-Audio or
SACD, please see next section for multi-channel analogue audio
connection.

Has SACD via HDMI worked on your receiver before?

SACD from the Oppo is converted to PCM, so if the new VP50 firmware can pass multichannel PCM (which it seems to based on an earlier post), then it can pass the SACD output from the Oppo.

However, the Oppo can output multichannel PCM only if its video output is set to 720p or 1080i, because HDMI requires this. Of course, this makes it annoying to use with an external video processor.

A good test is to bypass the DVDO, and plug the Oppo into the receiver via HDMI. If you still can't get SACD sound out of that, either your Oppo isn't set up right, or your receiver can't receive multichannel PCM.

--Andre

Well, for some reason after I updated with the new software I'm getting almost constant audio dropouts. I did get a few before but nothing like now. Its on a Directivo, and I'm aware of the 6.3 problems it has, but that was already on the Tivo before updating the DVDO.

Before I might get a quick drop ever 10 minutes maybe, but now it's doing good to play 2 minutes. Also they vary in length but 2-3 seconds is average, with some really quick ones also. Its about unuseable this way because I can have many with minutes, and while they do stop for longer periods of time, normally they don't.

What I find weird is reading the few comments I have seen addressing the audio dropouts with this release, is that for the most part they are either gone or much less. Thats backward from what I'm getting. I updated the day after it was released and was actually blaming the Directivo for the increase until tonight.

I use a HTPC for DVD and that appears to be fine, but I never had many with that anyway.

The dropouts are there whether I use optical or HDMI. When I hook up the Directivo straight to the receiver I no longer get them. Its a Yamaha receiver.

I haven't tried a hard reset and I really doubt that would do anything, but I guess I could try it, just hate to redo the settings.

So, for me this update hasn't been good, but I like PREP and rather not go back. I assume reloading the software wouldn't do any good ?

Amazing amount of audio problems they've had on the vp30 & 50, but for me it wasn't really bad until now. So unless I'm missing something I guess I'll have to go straight to the receiver and hope its better with the next update.

I haven't had one audio drop out since the 1.01 upgrade.... just the IR codes are a bit slower that's all ...

SACD from the Oppo is converted to PCM, so if the new VP50 firmware can pass multichannel PCM (which it seems to based on an earlier post), then it can pass the SACD output from the Oppo.

However, the Oppo can output multichannel PCM only if its video output is set to 720p or 1080i, because HDMI requires this. Of course, this makes it annoying to use with an external video processor.

A good test is to bypass the DVDO, and plug the Oppo into the receiver via HDMI. If you still can't get SACD sound out of that, either your Oppo isn't set up right, or your receiver can't receive multichannel PCM.

--Andre

Now I'm really confused.....The only reason I bought the 970 was for 480i HMDI into the VP, which works well...I think.

My AVR is HK's flagship and supports 1.1. I didn't test it by routing HDMI directly into it though. There's a freaking cord orgy going on behing my EQ rack and I don't want to participate anymore. Re routing cables is an all day event. I supose now that you mentioned it, I'll go ahead and test it though.....dangit.

I did contact DVDO and this is their responce. I don't quite understand it, but here it is.

..............

There is no fix for this because it is not a software upgradeable change. This is the standard for HDMI 1.1, which is what the VP30 and VP50 both run. The only way to change this would be to change out the hardware.

Regards,
Applications & Technical Support
Anchor Bay Technologies, Inc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Michael Drew
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 11:29 AM
To: Aaron Smith
Subject: RE: VP 50 - SACD / True Dolby

Is DVDO working on a fix for this? A firmware upgrade or different model VP perhaps?

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 10:16 AM
To: Michael Drew
Subject: RE: VP 50 - SACD / True Dolby

Hello Mike,

SACD / DVD A / True Dolby or DTS-HD

No / Yes / No & No

Regards,
Applications & Technical Support
Anchor Bay Technologies, Inc.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Michael Drew
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 9:09 PM
To: help@dvdo.com
Subject: VP 50 - SACD / True Dolby

Will the VP 50 pass SACD / DVD A / True Dolby or DTS via HDMI? If not, will it pass it any other way?
My current configuration is running the HDMI output from my universal player to the VP, and then output via HDMI to my AVR and then to my display. I get no sound when playing an SACD.

......................

Ahh...

You asked if the VP50 will pass SACD audio not multi-channel PCM or high bandwidth 2-channel PCM - which is what the Oppo puts out (down sampled SACD - not true SACD in DSD format).

Indeed the VP50 and your AV receiver will need to have HDMI1.2 in order to have an actual DSD SACD link - otherwise you're limited to 192kHz/24-bit audio under HDMI 1.1 (DSD is about 2.8MHz, a far cry from 192kHz).

The Oppo down-samples audio when output from its digital HDMI output (I'm not sure what it does for the analog outs - but analog is typically how SACD is sent to an A/V Receiver).

Cheers!

-LD :cool:

OH... that makes sense. :o now why didn't Aaron say that. Funny thing is Denon's will pass true SACD through their "denon link".

I did have this Oppo running 6 channel analogue before the VP, but I was trying to simplify things. I reckon I better just give in and run the cables again. I just hate having something not work.......

Hello,
I've two questions about 360 HD DVD+VP50+PT-AX100, maybe someone could help me

- Why with my Panasonic PT-AX100 the option 1080p/24 on VP50 output adjust remains greyed out? (on the projector manual it says it would accept that signal on HDMI and component).
- Assuming only 60hz input by my projector and only 60hz output by the hd-dvd player: is there anyway with VP50 to reduce or eliminate the judder? I've tried the 24/48/72hz lock on output settings->framerate but on the projector menu it always says 720p/60 and the film stutters a lot more on pans (especially with 24 and 48 lock, at 72 maybe stutters a little less but it loses detail for some reason).

Connections involved in this "issue"
XBOX360 HDDVD 1080i60 -> Component -> VP50 1.01 -> HDMI -> PT-AX100

I've already posted this questions to help@dvdo, just asking here too because a lot of ppl has a lot of knowledge in here :)

Thanks,
Z.

Question: Are the codes of the VP50 identical to those of the VP30? I didn't see them published on DVDO web site or any notice about the VP50 codes.

The VP50 discrete codes are the same as the VP30 plus quite a few new ones. Try my DVDO utility at www.the-gordons.net. It can generate all of the discrete codes for the VP50. Please read the manual to set it up for your system You only need to do this once. It has a mode where you do not need the VP50 connected and it then just does the IR code generation.

I haven't had one audio drop out since the 1.01 upgrade.... just the IR codes are a bit slower that's all ...

Well it screwed mine up far as audio is concerned. I had a VP30 and never had dropouts like I do now. So it appears when they fix one they break another, just seems kind of weird how long they've had this problem, going back to the launch of the vp30.

A hard reset didn't do any good so I'm now just running everything into the receiver. I'm not bothering to reload the software since I really doubt it would change anything. Who knows maybe the next update will put it at least back like it was, but it wouldn't suprise me if mostly it just corrects the odd IR menu issue.

(DSD is about 2.8MHz, a far cry from 192kHz).



DSD is a serial bitstream with 2.8MHz sampling rate, to make it easier lets say 2.8Mbit/s (it is not as easy like that).

PCM192/24 is a 3-byte PCM format bitstream: 24bit with 192kHz - 4.608Mbit/s.

So, the transmission requirements are very similar.

OH... that makes sense. :o now why didn't Aaron say that. Funny thing is Denon's will pass true SACD through their "denon link".

I did have this Oppo running 6 channel analogue before the VP, but I was trying to simplify things. I reckon I better just give in and run the cables again. I just hate having something not work.......
Denon Link is a sort of proprietary IEEE-1394(firewire) connection which has been SACD capable for a long time.

Hello,
I've two questions about 360 HD DVD+VP50+PT-AX100, maybe someone could help me

- Why with my Panasonic PT-AX100 the option 1080p/24 on VP50 output adjust remains greyed out? (on the projector manual it says it would accept that signal on HDMI and component).
- Assuming only 60hz input by my projector and only 60hz output by the hd-dvd player: is there anyway with VP50 to reduce or eliminate the judder? I've tried the 24/48/72hz lock on output settings->framerate but on the projector menu it always says 720p/60 and the film stutters a lot more on pans (especially with 24 and 48 lock, at 72 maybe stutters a little less but it loses detail for some reason).

Connections involved in this "issue"
XBOX360 HDDVD 1080i60 -> Component -> VP50 1.01 -> HDMI -> PT-AX100

I've already posted this questions to help@dvdo, just asking here too because a lot of ppl has a lot of knowledge in here :)

Thanks,
Z.
Perhaps the projector accepts 24p but converts it?

- Assuming only 60hz input by my projector and only 60hz output by the hd-dvd player: is there anyway with VP50 to reduce or eliminate the judder? I've tried the 24/48/72hz lock on output settings->framerate but on the projector menu it always says 720p/60 and the film stutters a lot more on pans (especially with 24 and 48 lock, at 72 maybe stutters a little less but it loses detail for some reason).

If your projector only syncs to 60hz, there's nothing further you can do. To test whether the projector is syncing to different frame rates, pull up the VP50s test pattern with a white bar sweeping horizontally across the screen. If the motion is smooth, you have proper sync. If the motion is juddery, the projector is trying to convert whatever frame rate you've input back to 60hz for display.

OH... that makes sense. :o now why didn't Aaron say that. Funny thing is Denon's will pass true SACD through their "denon link".

I did have this Oppo running 6 channel analogue before the VP, but I was trying to simplify things. I reckon I better just give in and run the cables again. I just hate having something not work.......

I'm just guessing here, but I'll assume you didn't tell him what source you were using to send SACD downmix (and that it was a downmix - not DSD).

From your slightly longer email above it looks like you called your Oppo: "...my universal player...". This is typically too vauge for a tech support guy to make a deterministic answer (had you used that term here on AVS, I would have had trouble giving you the right answer too. ;)).

Cheers!

-LD :cool:

Hi all,

This is my first post in this forum although I've been reading this thread for quite a while now...As usual one decides to write when he/she runs into problems. So here is mine...

I've recently bought a VP50 and having been reading about the new firmware and the new functions (I liked the offering of PReP) that seemed nice, I uploaded the new 1.01 FW. All went ok but now I have noticed that my component input 2 does not seem to work.

Please note that this is not necessarily due to the FW upgrade as I had not tried to connect anything on that i/p before but I 'm speculating that this could be the source of my problem...

Into more details about my problem but first here is my very simple setup:

Video:
DVD1 -> VP50 comp. ip 1 -> hdmi to DVI-D in Front Projector (720p native res.)
DVD2 -> VP50 Comp ip 2 -> as above

For now, all my audio sources going through my AV receiver which is a bit old and lacks dmi connections.

When switching to component ip1 the source is displayed as expected and (perhaps an important observation here) the indicator on the VP50 turns from red to (brief) green to stable blue.

When switching to component ip 2, the VP's blue screen (thank god, not of DEATH like in windows ;)) stays blue and when pressing for info there seems to be no source on that ip. Note that I can tell VP50 picks up something as the indicator goes from red to green, as opposed to stable red when no ip is present at all, but stays green!

Initially I thought it was a bad connection or cable. However, if I connect DVD2 from ip 2 to ip 1 and hook DVD1 to ip2 I get the same problem (ie output from source DVD2 on component ip 1 is ok but from ip 2 the problem remains.

Like I mentioned earlier this is a brand new (VP50) unit, so I would really appreciate any help.

Please note that it might be the case that I m doing something wrong (although this is too simple to mess up--i think).

Also note that I have sent an email to Aaron @ DVDO about this but had no reponse yet.

Many thanks in advance,

Kopa13

P.S. for the record, The PReP does make a noticeable difference to my setup! A point of interest; I swear that images are shown brighter (ie with higher contrast) than without PreP !!.

Hi all,

This is my first post in this forum although I've been reading this thread for quite a while now...As usual one decides to write when he/she runs into problems. So here is mine...

I've recently bought a VP50 and having been reading about the new firmware and the new functions (I liked the offering of PReP) that seemed nice, I uploaded the new 1.01 FW. All went ok but now I have noticed that my component input 2 does not seem to work.

Please note that this is not necessarily due to the FW upgrade as I had not tried to connect anything on that i/p before but I 'm speculating that this could be the source of my problem...

Into more details about my problem but first here is my very simple setup:

Video:
DVD1 -> VP50 comp. ip 1 -> hdmi to DVI-D in Front Projector (720p native res.)
DVD2 -> VP50 Comp ip 2 -> as above

For now, all my audio sources going through my AV receiver which is a bit old and lacks dmi connections.

When switching to component ip1 the source is displayed as expected and (perhaps an important observation here) the indicator on the VP50 turns from red to (brief) green to stable blue.

When switching to component ip 2, the VP's blue screen (thank god, not of DEATH like in windows ;)) stays blue and when pressing for info there seems to be no source on that ip. Note that I can tell VP50 picks up something as the indicator goes from red to green, as opposed to stable red when no ip is present at all, but stays green!

Initially I thought it was a bad connection or cable. However, if I connect DVD2 from ip 2 to ip 1 and hook DVD1 to ip2 I get the same problem (ie output from source DVD2 on component ip 1 is ok but from ip 2 the problem remains.

Like I mentioned earlier this is a brand new (VP50) unit, so I would really appreciate any help.

Please note that it might be the case that I m doing something wrong (although this is too simple to mess up--i think).

Also note that I have sent an email to Aaron @ DVDO about this but had no reponse yet.

Many thanks in advance,

Kopa13

P.S. for the record, The PReP does make a noticeable difference to my setup! A point of interest; I swear that images are shown brighter (ie with higher contrast) than without PreP !!.

Is it possible that you are trying to output 720p or 1080i from your DVD player over component? This is not posible on commercial dvd's with HDCP enabled. Perhaps the DVD player has stopped outputing a signal over component because the output is not set to 480i or 480p.

Is it possible that you are trying to output 720p or 1080i from your DVD player over component? This is not posible on commercial dvd's with HDCP enabled. Perhaps the DVD player has stopped outputing a signal over component because the output is not set to 480i or 480p.


Hi and thanks for answering....

However, none of the players have HDCP enabled. (and I do have HDCP off in the VP50 HDMI output). Also note that both DVD outputs are components going to VP50 component ip1 and ip2.

Furthermore, if I connect the player that VP50 picks up and displays correctly on ip1 onto component ip2 I get no display (ie indicator stays green and I only see the VP50's blue screen.

commenting on what you said for the DVD Players stop outputing component signals, It looks more like the VP50 stopped accepting component inputs on component ip 2.

Note that i'm in PAL area so both DVDs have 576i/p (instead of 480i/p). However, this should not make any difference as both players are displayed ok when hooked up on component ip1 of the VP50.

Regards,

Kopa13

Denon Link is a sort of proprietary IEEE-1394(firewire) connection which has been SACD capable for a long time.

You might also want to add that the sacd over denonlink took denon/sony like 2 years to work out and it was promised from denonlink1.0 to 3.0 before it worked :) So yes its been working for a longtime but we also had to wait for it to become working for a long time. Denon claimed it was because sony really didn't want to allow different interfaces for sacd.

Daniel

Sounds like a faulty unit to me kopa13

Yes, that sounds pretty fishy, kopal. But the final question begging to be answered, if you plug the 2nd dvd player into the first input, do you get a picture? And/or, if you have the breakouts, and if your DVD2 player does 480p or better, have you tried that into the bnc inputs? They don't work for 720p or 480i, but you will get a picture if your dvd player does 480p, and you very well could get one at 1080i (I do, some don't - who knows why.)

But it could still be something as simple as a blue and green mixed up in the component inputs - mine look very similar - when I had them mixed up, I had same problem as you. Just another thing to double check - it is an error I've made - and at least in my rack, it isn't that hard to do.

Thanks Choddo2006 and Flyingvee.

But the final question begging to be answered, if you plug the 2nd dvd player into the first input, do you get a picture?
Yes I do

...looks like a faulty unit
This is the worrying bit, but I m still waiting for Aaron@DVDO to come back to me on this too just in case is something I've missed.

And/or, if you have the breakouts, and if your DVD2 player does 480p or better, have you tried that into the bnc inputs?

I have RCA-2-BNC adaptors and will give it a go to see although I think I've tried this and it didn't work. However, I did nt try at 1080i output, so that remains to be seen.


But it could still be something as simple as a blue and green mixed up in the component inputs - mine look very similar - when I had them mixed up, I had same problem as you.

Doule and triple checked this as I know what you mean but the connections are right.

Also note that if I hook up my second DVD with Svideo cable to any of the S-Video inputs on the VP50 I get a picture from the display but unavoidably at S-Video quality which is not extremely bad but the point is that I want to use my player's component outs.

Again note that it is only the component input 2 on the VP50 that does not (seem to) work.

I've been looking thru this page as well as the sxrd 55A2000 thread trying to get an idea of getting a good setup to go w/ my Direct TV HD (i still have to install the dish when I won't freeze my as* off, Denon 987, DVD player, and PS3......lots more stuff than I imagined having to shift thru.

for those w/ the VP50...should you set the HDCP to on or off? reading it, it would seem you would want it to off, unless it degrades something in the process? My grasp on the whole HDCP is fuzzy.

Can anyone post their settings for a similar setup running thru an A/V rx?

I'm continuing my education in the thread (page 6 :( ) as well, but right now its big jumble of terms and jargon that I'm not quite grounded in. I'm looking for a way to tie it all together.

thanks to anyone who replies

for those w/ the VP50...should you set the HDCP to on or off? reading it, it would seem you would want it to off, unless it degrades something in the process? My grasp on the whole HDCP is fuzzy.


Basically if your display supports HDCP then switch it on for the output.

For source inputs you can try switching it off (a couple of devices will just not use HDCP then but most will simply stop working) but generally leave it on.

If your display doesn't work with HDCP (or you switched it off) then there's nothing the VP50 can do when your source insists on using it other then to blank the screen (for legal/licensing reasons).

It won't effect picture quality other then when it switches the video off, as mentioned above. ;)

I've been looking thru this page as well as the sxrd 55A2000 thread trying to get an idea of getting a good setup to go w/ my Direct TV HD (i still have to install the dish when I won't freeze my as* off, Denon 987, DVD player, and PS3......lots more stuff than I imagined having to shift thru........


Regarding Direct TV HD.....

If you have the HR10-250 Direct TV HD recorder you can switch the HDCP on the input side of the VP50 to DISABLED. This causes the HR10-250 to disable HDCP and still function normally. The benefit of this is you have more options since the mandatory restrictions like VGA output and component at HD quality become available instead of the VP50 refusing to process the signal due to legal obligations.

Quick question that I wasn't able to find a quick answer for by searching... when I'm not in any menus, the front panel display goes blank.

Is this normal? I thought it was meant to show some kind of status information.

is it possible to adjuste or to shift the input signal ?
my dvd player output did not center it correctly .

Again note that it is only the component input 2 on the VP50 that does not (seem to) work.

bummer - sounds like you got a bad one. Call DVDO again, get a new one sent to you.

bummer - sounds like you got a bad one. Call DVDO again, get a new one sent to you.

Thanks Flyingvee...I finally got around the problem...with Aaron's @DVDO help...
it just needed a 'Hard Reset'.

Before, I would just unplugged the power and put it back in and did a 'factory default' from the menu. Apparently that was not enough.

Nevertheless, it should not need this (a hard rst) as you should be able to hook up sources with the power on (not even on 'stand by') without problems. However, I m pleased this is sorted as like I said before, the unit is brand new and shipping it back to US would take quite a while (especially as Christmas is coming)...

Thanks fo your suggestions...

Regads,

Kopa13

What precisely is a "hard reset"

I would say pulling the power, and then plugging it back in, but evidently it's holding down a few buttons when you put the power back to it. I don't recall what buttons they are though.

To hard reset the VP50 :

1. Unplug the VP50 from the wall.
2. Hold down "Menu" and "Exit" on the front panel
3. Reattach power.

- Collin

my white line is still here....disabled the orbiter 2 on the panel ..... top left hand side ... one pixel vertically and about 30-100 horizontally ... , ...

I think it occours when the VP50 goes in mixed mode deinterlacing, the white line flashes... less noticeable then before the 1.01 upgrade.. and happening less often.... but still present....

my white line is still here....disabled the orbiter 2 on the panel ..... top left hand side ... one pixel vertically and about 30-100 horizontally ... , ...

I think it occours when the VP50 goes in mixed mode deinterlacing, the white line flashes... less noticeable then before the 1.01 upgrade.. and happening less often.... but still present....

Funny, I saw it again the other night-- for only the second time, and this was the first time with my replacement VP50 (which still has firmware 1.00). It was during a TV show on DVD (Lost) which did seem to have occasional "bad edits" (because 24Hz output wasn't clean), although the first time I saw it (with my original, pinstripe-infected VP50) was during a movie on DVD.

-- Peter

To hard reset the VP50 :

1. Unplug the VP50 from the wall.
2. Hold down "Menu" and "Exit" on the front panel
3. Reattach power.

- Collin

I would also add to the above that you Release the two buttons once you see the "Checksum..." message appearing in the VP50 screen.

The VP then goes to a series of internal tests (ie checking FPGAs etc) which last for 1-2 minutes and at the end reverts back to the VP's defaults.

I have recently bought an Oppo DV-970HD to be used solely as trasnport DVD (which AFAIW is what this player is good for) for my PAL and NTSC DVDs (576i through HDMI for PAL).

I know that the player fails at detecting 2:2 cadence (ie any res with "p" for my PAL discs) so I have not used it at progressive.

Now, considering the new feature the 1.01 FW (think PReP here) brings, do you think I would get a way (ie avoiding the cadence problems at 2:2) with putting the DVD at 576p BUT use PReP to Re-Deinterlace it?

I mean shouldn't PReP detect the bad cdence at the de-interlaced video, if I run the Oppo at 576p (considering the problems with 2:2 cadences) and corrects it along the way to re-Deinterlacing?

I can't test this yet as I have lend the player to a friend which is why I am posting this question to you (realising that most of you will be using 3:2 which works fine with this player- but you never know ;) )

Many thanks and Regards,

Kopa13

is it possible to adjuste or to shift the input signal ?
my dvd player output did not center it correctly .

I am still waiting for my VP-50 but I would be interested in an answer as well. I would like to shift the RGBS component input signal from my SAT receiver.

I have recently bought an Oppo DV-970HD to be used solely as trasnport DVD (which AFAIW is what this player is good for) for my PAL and NTSC DVDs (576i through HDMI for PAL).

I know that the player fails at detecting 2:2 cadence (ie any res with "p" for my PAL discs) so I have not used it at progressive.

Now, considering the new feature the 1.01 FW (think PReP here) brings, do you think I would get a way (ie avoiding the cadence problems at 2:2) with putting the DVD at 576p BUT use PReP to Re-Deinterlace it?

I mean shouldn't PReP detect the bad cdence at the de-interlaced video, if I run the Oppo at 576p (considering the problems with 2:2 cadences) and corrects it along the way to re-Deinterlacing?...
Since the Oppo DV-970HD has the delightful feature of allowing 480i and 576i over HDMI as you mention why not continue to use the interlaced signal? PReP is only of value if you are stuck with a poorly deinterlaced signal. Or am I misunderstanding what you are saying?

MY VP-50 has been acting a little strange when displaying the INFO panel. This seemed to happen after first connecting a Samsung BluRay player. Info panel for all other inputs displayed correctly however 3 out of five times the INFO screen displayed with no input or output info. The other 2 times it remained blank for at least 5 seconds and then displayed the data.

Did a Hard Reset and now everything works perfect. Info panel and data is displayed immediately.

Since the Oppo DV-970HD has the delightful feature of allowing 480i and 576i over HDMI as you mention why not continue to use the interlaced signal?
You are absolutely right here but I want to see if I get any (even) better picture ;)

This PReP is only of value if you are stuck with a poorly deinterlaced signal. is exactly why I am curious. I know that the Oppo is really bad at detecting a 2:2 cadence so I thought, since PReP exists for that reason, to give it a try and see the result and was wondering if someone else has done this to let me know in advance to save some time ;)

You are absolutely right here but I want to see if I get any (even) better picture ;)

This is exactly why I am curious. I know that the Oppo is really bad at detecting a 2:2 cadence so I thought, since PReP exists for that reason, to give it a try and see the result and was wondering if someone else has done this to let me know in advance to save some time ;)

But with 480i you have bypassed the deinterlacer in the Oppo and are relying on the VP50 to do deinterlacing including 2:2 cadence. 480p + PReP will not beat 480i. At best it should look equivalent but it could possibly look worse.

- Collin

But with 480i you have bypassed the deinterlacer in the Oppo and are relying on the VP50 to do deinterlacing including 2:2 cadence. 480p + PReP will not beat 480i. At best it should look equivalent but it could possibly look worse.

Very true. However, it is a good PReP testing, imho. I am interested to see if it'll look the same or worse!! Think of this as a good proven (ie Oppo hd failure in 2:2 cadence detection) scenario to test PReP.

I'll have the player tonight...So I'll give it a go myself.

The other interesting thing I've noticed, when using PReP in my other Player at 576p@50Hz, is that I get brighter (in terms of luminance and/or contrast) images!! Note however, that I have not callibrated the source or the PJ-TX100 front yet! But still if all equal, the image should have been the same!!


Kopa13

P.S. I ve used the LoR I and referring to the first bright scene in the film where the tiltle of the movie is displayed

Kopa,

I am extremely doubtful that 480/576p into the VP50 will give you better results than an interlaced signal.
What jlib said. ;)

Hi

Does anyone know if I can feed a HDMI signal to the VP50 but not carry the audio from that particular input back out of the optical-out with the audio from my other sources?, what I mean is I just want the HDMI image only from that particular input while all others can have image and sound.

Could I assign an audio input to that particular HDMI that has no feed and therefore output an empty audio signal back out when using just that input?

Cheers

Hi

Does anyone know if I can feed a HDMI signal to the VP50 but not carry the audio from that particular input back out of the optical-out with the audio from my other sources?, what I mean is I just want the HDMI image only from that particular input while all others can have image and sound.

Could I assign an audio input to that particular HDMI that has no feed and therefore output an empty audio signal back out when using just that input?

Cheers

if i understand what you're asking correctly, then yes, just set the Audio Input for that HDMI input to Off (I think there is an Off setting if i remember correctly, if not just set it to an unused other audio input). It's under Input Adjust->Audio Input.

TallCoolOne is correct. Just set it to off.

Hello,I have my vp50 being delivered to-morrow and I am told that the firmware is still the original non beta 1.0 My question is this,is it worth upgrading the firmware to 1.01 and use PReP or would it be better to leave as it is and use component to give an interlaced signal to the Iscan.Many people have slated the component connection saying that the picture is not as sharp,but that has not been my experience.
Thank you for any opinions
alwyn

Ahh...

You asked if the VP50 will pass SACD audio not multi-channel PCM or high bandwidth 2-channel PCM - which is what the Oppo puts out (down sampled SACD - not true SACD in DSD format).

Indeed the VP50 and your AV receiver will need to have HDMI1.2 in order to have an actual DSD SACD link - otherwise you're limited to 192kHz/24-bit audio under HDMI 1.1 (DSD is about 2.8MHz, a far cry from 192kHz).

The Oppo down-samples audio when output from its digital HDMI output (I'm not sure what it does for the analog outs - but analog is typically how SACD is sent to an A/V Receiver).

Cheers!

-LD :cool:

Out of curiosity and not really understanding why I couldn't get SACD to pass through the VP via HDMI, I re-routed all my cables today. I was also experiencing some very odd "pops", "clicks" and "chirps" on all 7 channels (at random and very irritating intervals last night watching a movie). - I'm assuming that those noises are what many of you have labeled "drop outs"???

Oppo 970 / HDMI > HK 745 > VP50
Toshiba X1 / HDMI > HK 745 > VP50
Dishnet 625 / Coax > HK 745 > VP50



I just sat through some of the same movie and all the weird noises are gone. And guess what?? I have SACD via HDMI into the receiver.

At this point I have no idea what's going on with the VP's sound, but I'm done experimenting and keeping sound routed to the AVR and NOT through the VP. I have independent input lip sync with the AVR if I need it. Plus now I can add some noise reduction with the HK if I choose to.

I think the latest DVDO firmware upgrade still has some tweaking that needs to be done.

In addition to routing HDMI from the dvd players to the AVR, I also routed Coax/audio cables. When I switch back and forth between HDMI and Coax sound inputs, the coax sounds much better. And yes, all surround settings are global (all the same per input including delays, channel trims and X-overs).

I don't thing I like HDMI very much....... :(

Hi folks,

I just got FIOS and I am having problem passing audio via HDMI from the Motorola DVR through the VP-50. Is this a known compatability issue? It works OK thru the Directv H10-250

Hi folks,

I just got FIOS and I am having problem passing audio via HDMI from the Motorola DVR through the VP-50. Is this a known compatability issue? It works OK thru the Directv H10-250
There has been a lot of mention about Motorola DVRs not liking to see HDMI repeater type devices like AVRs and the VP50. The Comcast Motorola 6412 is pretty picky on how you route the HDMI signal. I'm not sure if anyone has been able to route the output from that box through the VP50, I know there were problems using AVRs.

Anyone hook up a Wii to the VP50 yet? Wondering how it looks upscaled to 1080p.

Well, with the new firmware, for the first time discretes finally work for me AND I don't seem to have any audio dropouts anymore!!!!! Wow, picture quality is as impressive as ever, but my only two complaints are now gone. Great!!!! :) :) :) :)

Josh, please pass on my congratulations to the folks who re-wrote the audio logic. Great work. SJ

Got my VP50 today..Got it all hooked up and running. Now just have to optimize everything..I suppose I'll run the DVD that came w/ it as a start.

For Direct tv I have the H20 which has HDMI out. I ran everything to the VP50 (both the H20 and my SD DVR, PS3, and DVD player) w/ an audio out to the Denon A/V. This is what I read as the recommended setup and actually works better than running it all thru the A/v..

Can anyone w/ direct tv post their settings or at least settings they deem as crucial? I played around w/ it and I have it the best I can so far w/o messing w/ the picture stuff..but as far as input/output settings.

The one thing I don't like about Direct tv HD is that how the box outputs the signal. Before I got the VP50, the Rx would output the video differently so that my SD signals appeared differently on the TV. Pretty much everything SD has borders...prior to that I could use Wide zoom w/ my DVR Rx and the images would look tolerable an used most of my 55in display.

Even now w/ the VP50, If I get the SD thru the HD Rx I can't seem to get the display right as I have my TV trying to set the screen to its settings, the HD RX setting the display, and the VP50 also doing its display thing.

Anyone hook up a Wii to the VP50 yet? Wondering how it looks upscaled to 1080p.

I hooked mine up last night. It was only upscaled to 720p because I have a Infocus IN76 but the picture did look pretty good. The one thing I did notice is I had to turn it on Game Mode 1 or there was some lag between using the controller and what happened on the screen.

The one thing I don't like about Direct tv HD is that how the box outputs the signal. Before I got the VP50, the Rx would output the video differently so that my SD signals appeared differently on the TV. Pretty much everything SD has borders...prior to that I could use Wide zoom w/ my DVR Rx and the images would look tolerable an used most of my 55in display.

Even now w/ the VP50, If I get the SD thru the HD Rx I can't seem to get the display right as I have my TV trying to set the screen to its settings, the HD RX setting the display, and the VP50 also doing its display thing.I do not have an H20 (I have the older DirecTV HD TiVo), but my understanding is that the H20 has a "Native Resolution" option. If I were you, what I would do is turn on the Native Resolution option, turn off the "wide zoom", and just use the VP50 to manipulate the image in the way you want. You want to give your VP50 the least-manipulated image possible, and let it do all the work -- that's what it is there for :) If you're trying to stretch your 4:3 SD info to fill your 16:9 screen, there are a number of settings in the VP50 that would let you do this in different ways, including the Panorama option and the Zoom option. Without knowing exactly what you are currently seeing and what you mean by "right" (to me, "right" would be a picture in the middle with black bars on the left/right, with possibly a little cropping at the top to eliminate VBI "static"), it's hard to be more specific on what you need to do.


Jason

Does the VP50 have a stretch mode that stretches the sides and leaves the middle more or less intact? I assume this is the above mentioned Panorama option.

Can I program the VP50 to display SD signals in stretch mode and HD signals unstretched without having to select on the remote different modes?

Thanks

Anyone hook up a Wii to the VP50 yet? Wondering how it looks upscaled to 1080p.
Mine looks just fine. The Wii doesn't antialias diagonal lines, and the VP50 doesn't do any sort of edge-adaptive scaling or anything like that, so you see some jaggies, but it looks pretty good overall. The VP50's scaling is also a little too sharp for contrasting areas of bright flat color, like some games have but few filmed scenes on DVDs or TV do. I notice ringing around edges a little too often. But diggumsmax mentioned lag above -- that's the really interesting issue.

You can run the Wii at 480i and use Game Mode 1 deinterlacing to get about 6 ms of lag - pretty good. "Auto" deinterlacing looks better, but it's 56 ms of lag.

You can run the Wii at 480p, in which case you don't need to deinterlace. So it should run at 6 ms or less of lag, like Game Mode 1. Unfortunately, the VP50 added progressive cadence detection, which buffers up three frames and checks for cadence patterns before outputting them, and it doesn't provide an option to turn it off. So all 60 frames/sec progressive inputs are delayed 56 ms for no good reason whatsoever.

The upshot is that with game consoles and the VP50, you have to choose between low lag time (interlaced) and good graphics (progressive scan). Workarounds are to get a VP30 or older, or to bug DVDO to allow us to turn off progressive cadence detection in the Input Adjust menu.

Battle - it should do that automatically, once you set it. Assuming that you are inputting the SD at one res - say 480i, and the HD at native res of 720 or 1080. At least mine does - all I did was chose how I wanted them initially, and then you are good to go until you change your mind (say, when HBO has a letterboxed show on, and you select Letterbox. And then forget to change for the next show. :))

The upshot is that with game consoles and the VP50, you have to choose between low lag time (interlaced) and good graphics (progressive scan). Workarounds are to get a VP30 or older, or to bug DVDO to allow us to turn off progressive cadence detection in the Input Adjust menu.

Another "workaround" is to use PReP on 480p signals, then use Game Mode 2 to re-deinterlace the signal. You can't use Game Mode 1 this way, because it will distort the image too badly. HOWEVER, Game Mode 2 with PReP on a 480p signal only lags between 10-15ms for me according to my latency tests which is acceptable for my Wii gaming. Game Mode 2 on a regular 480i signal will lag around 30-40ms, but for some reason it's nearly perfect with 480p/PReP.

It's important to note that while you will get a little bit more of the "crispness" of 480p this way, it isn't an ideal workaround and hopefully they will address the forced Cadence detection issue in the next (beta?) firmware.

I'm also using the PReP + Game Mode 2 trick to improve the latency on my PS3 (although I'm still stuck with lag on 720p-only games, since you cannot do PReP on 720p signals).

XBOX HD DVD through the VP50
Hi forum members I'm tryin' to get an answer to the following. I' ve connected a HDVDV from the XBOX through the VP50 via component (VP50 with HDMI to Plasma) Looking at King Kong a lot of still's are displayed during the scenes. When connected from the XBOX as component into my Pio5000EX I do not notice this behavour on the same movie.
Any help is much appriciated

Not sure I understand your setup. I have an xbox 360 (with a HD DVD add-on) connected to my VP50 via component. Outputing xbox 360 at 1080i. Works perfect on King Kong and all other HD DVD movies. I'm outputing HDMI at 720P from the VP50 to my Optoma H79 projector. SJ

Not sure I understand your setup. I have an xbox 360 (with a HD DVD add-on) connected to my VP50 via component. Outputing xbox 360 at 1080i. Works perfect on King Kong and all other HD DVD movies. I'm outputing HDMI at 720P from the VP50 to my Optoma H79 projector. SJ

Hi thanks for your reply. My setup is almost the same. HD DVD to VP50 with component. VP50 with HDMI to 1080P screen (pioneer 5000EX) output res also 1080P in VP50. During the movie there are moments that it appears to stop (for a split second) and then continues again.
Perhaps I need to try 1080i as output but that would not be ok because the pioneer would convert it to 1080P I prosume.

Hi thanks for your reply. My setup is almost the same. HD DVD to VP50 with component. VP50 with HDMI to 1080P screen (pioneer 5000EX) output res also 1080P in VP50. During the movie there are moments that it appears to stop (for a split second) and then continues again.
Perhaps I need to try 1080i as output but that would not be ok because the pioneer would convert it to 1080P I prosume.
If you output 1080i you will lose the processing from your vp50, no deinterlacing!

I've just received my VP50.

A couple of questions:

1. I have a (flashing) white horizontal line in the top left corner when watching SD from my cable box with HDMI. Can't make it go away no matter how much overscan I use. This must be the white line others are mentioning, right?

2. Does overscan mess with 1:1 pixel mapping or doesn't it affect it?

3. Can I check my firmware version by just clicking the Info button?

4. My iMac HTPC is hooked up to the VP50 by DVI to HDMI. Everytime I switch to the HDMI input for the HTPC, my iMac needs to "resync" and detect the VP50 again. The screen goes blue for about 5 seconds.

Is there any way to avoid this re-detection every time?

Thanks
/Martin

Another "workaround" is to use PReP on 480p signals, then use Game Mode 2 to re-deinterlace the signal. You can't use Game Mode 1 this way, because it will distort the image too badly. HOWEVER, Game Mode 2 with PReP on a 480p signal only lags between 10-15ms for me according to my latency tests which is acceptable for my Wii gaming. Game Mode 2 on a regular 480i signal will lag around 30-40ms, but for some reason it's nearly perfect with 480p/PReP.

It's important to note that while you will get a little bit more of the "crispness" of 480p this way, it isn't an ideal workaround and hopefully they will address the forced Cadence detection issue in the next (beta?) firmware.

I'm also using the PReP + Game Mode 2 trick to improve the latency on my PS3 (although I'm still stuck with lag on 720p-only games, since you cannot do PReP on 720p signals).
I'd just like to chime in as another person eagerly awaiting a fix for the delay-with-480p issue. The "game mode" was one of the reasons I went with DVDO over the competition, and am quite disappointed with this oversight.

If this isn't addressed shortly, I may decide to switch to another processor. The upcoming Radiance claims 0.25 frames delay...it's looking attractive.

Thanks for the PReP workaround, though, to chop off an extra bit of latency. It's still quite ironic though, that the interlaced output is actually better with the VP50 than the progressive.

I haven't gotten my Wii component cables yet, so I've been stuck with interlaced output, so you might like to know that I have been playing in Game Mode 1, not 2, as I can tell the difference in timing with the Wii, despite the decreased quality of the lowest latency mode.

Forgive me if this has been covered earlier in the thread but I just want to be sure: How do you calibrate your display with the VP50?

Do you calibrate the display first without the VP50 in the loop, using the display's controls? Then do you calibrate again with the VP50 in the loop using the VP50's controls?

I'll be using something like Avia or a friend may bring his SpyderTV Pro over.

TIA.

- Gerry

Forgive me if this has been covered earlier in the thread but I just want to be sure: How do you calibrate your display with the VP50?

Do you calibrate the display first without the VP50 in the loop, using the display's controls? Then do you calibrate again with the VP50 in the loop using the VP50's controls?

I'll be using something like Avia or a friend may bring his SpyderTV Pro over.

TIA.

- Gerry

Use the test patterns in the DVDO to calibrate your display using your display's controls. Then use test patterns generated by your sources (DVE/Avia on a DVD player, InHD/HDNet Test Patterns on a DVR). Use the DVDO's picture controls to balance each source. Fiddle the picture controls until the source generated test patterns match the DVDO generated patterns. The DVDO generated split test patterns let you see both the source and internal patterns at the same time.

- Collin

i see all this talk about lag time for the VP50 and how it might affect video games. I just set the PS3 to output 1080p and have it going through the VP50. Someone mentioned because of some progressive cadence detection though this would/should cause more lag than de-interlacing. So if i set the PS3 to output 1080i and let the VP50 handle the de-interlacing, a) would it be faster, and b) would this yield an equivalent picture (especially with 1080p bluray movies), i'm guessing it would since none of the information is lost when the VP50 de-interlaces. Of course this is all theoretical since i haven't noticed any lag when playing NHL2K the way i have it now, but maybe this is why i am so bad at the game :)

i see all this talk about lag time for the VP50 and how it might affect video games. I just set the PS3 to output 1080p and have it going through the VP50. Someone mentioned because of some progressive cadence detection though this would/should cause more lag than de-interlacing. So if i set the PS3 to output 1080i and let the VP50 handle the de-interlacing, a) would it be faster, and b) would this yield an equivalent picture (especially with 1080p bluray movies), i'm guessing it would since none of the information is lost when the VP50 de-interlaces. Of course this is all theoretical since i haven't noticed any lag when playing NHL2K the way i have it now, but maybe this is why i am so bad at the game :)
(a) Yes, interlaced input would be faster, which is the ironic nature of the bug, but only if you use one of the game modes. If you use "auto", it will be the same.

(b) It will be equivalent (or nearly so) with 1080p Blu-Ray movies, because 1080p really means 1080p30 or 1080p24 with Blu-Ray movies. (Which, as an aside, is one reason why the debate over whether HD DVD or BD support 1080p natively has little significance to the end user.) With games, you really have 1080p60, so progressive output from the PS3 will be better, because with anything less, you have lost information which cannot be recovered. That's why a fix to add a "game mode" (disabling cadence detection) to progressive inputs is desirable.

(a) Yes, interlaced input would be faster, which is the ironic nature of the bug, but only if you use one of the game modes. If you use "auto", it will be the same.

(b) It will be equivalent (or nearly so) with 1080p Blu-Ray movies, because 1080p really means 1080p30 or 1080p24 with Blu-Ray movies. (Which, as an aside, is one reason why the debate over whether HD DVD or BD support 1080p natively has little significance to the end user.) With games, you really have 1080p60, so progressive output from the PS3 will be better, because with anything less, you have lost information which cannot be recovered. That's why a fix to add a "game mode" (disabling cadence detection) to progressive inputs is desirable.

ah, yes that makes perfect sense. thanks! So couldn't an animated movie like Toy Story etc which are completely computer generated theoretically be true 1080p60?

ah, yes that makes perfect sense. thanks! So couldn't an animated movie like Toy Story etc which are completely rendered theoretically be true 1080p60?
In terms of movie-making, yes. But I'm not sure whether the BD or HD DVD formats allow it. You could release it as a PS3 "game" though, and that would work for sure. :)

I hate to say this considering all the money I spent on my vp50, but the Uverse Motorola VIP1216 STB can only output 480p through HDMI. When I tried PReP on it, the deinterlacing got pretty bad. What is the PReP for then? I have a the VP50 connect to a 50" Panny 8UK (1366x768).

is that 480p downconverted from HD cources? you don't want to Prep a true 480p source, (it isn't true 480p in a sense) but it isn't a 480i source either, far from it if the original source being downconverted to 480p is 720/1080i

Prep is ideally only for sources that originate as 480i and have been deinterlaced to 480p

-Gary

its easier than you think ;) :

HDMI splitter cable

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10422&cs_id=1042203&p_id=2522&seq=1&format=2&style=

http://images.monoprice.com/productlargeimages/25221.jpg

does not work in reverse like all those knuckleheads were trying in the mono feedback section :rolleyes:

-Gary

I have Tivo HR10-250 in another room that I would like to output to two tv's via the HDMI. I tried the monoprice splitter (pictured above) but it seems to lose signal strength and does not work.

Anyone else use a splitter? Anything that works?

I upgraded the firmware to 1.1 last night.

We only watched 1 movie last night, Nacho Libre in HD.

the audio is run to the dvdo vp 50 via hdmi.

We enjoyed hundreds of extemely brief audio drops. The audio was always back in a fraction of a second.

I do not know if the problem is the new firmware or something else such as the set up in the vp50, or dirt on the disk etc.

btw, the video was solid the entire movie, not 1 glitch.

any thoughts?

Warren

Hello everybody,


I own a PJTX100 atm, and would like to know if it would be a significant addition to invest in a VP50, connected to a Pio 868 (1080I upscale thru HDMI)?

I am not sure what frequencies the tx100 can output, I am atm not going to upgrade the proj, not untill the new JVC (D-Illa)becomes affordable,which will last probably a year or so.

Should I keep my money, or will the VP50 make my 2m30 base picture look better?


Thx in advance!

warren,

Wierd, the major feature in this new firmware is a new audio system.

What sources did you play Nacho Libre from and how was it connected to the unit?

Ofer

The source was a Toshiba HD A1 with firmware 2.0 via HDMI.

The VP50 feeds a Bryston Sp2.0 via fibreoptic cable.

I am going to try a hard reset as well as other software followed by other sources such as my pio elite 79 and my scientific atlanta cable box, box connected by HDMI to the VP50.

Warren

Hello everybody,


I own a PJTX100 atm, and would like to know if it would be a significant addition to invest in a VP50, connected to a Pio 868 (1080I upscale thru HDMI)?

I am not sure what frequencies the tx100 can output, I am atm not going to upgrade the proj, not untill the new JVC (D-Illa)becomes affordable,which will last probably a year or so.

Should I keep my money, or will the VP50 make my 2m30 base picture look better?


Thx in advance!

Hi Wixx,

I own the same front pj (as one of my display sources) and I connect a VP50 through both HDMI-to-DVI-d (for digital) and through Component (analogue) and I can tell you that the difference is very noticable on both connections.

the pj can output 1280x720 natively. Here is a link for a review from audioholics http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/hitachi-PJ-TX100p1.php
where amongst other things like comments on calibration you will find out that this 2 year old pj can support 1080p!!! which I can confirm (though not recommended by the reviewer)


But regardless with the display a VP50 is a good investement which offers similar, if not better with a lot more expensive processors (Note: Can't say this with extreme confidence as I have not tried any of the more expensive processors but from what I have been reading around this seems to be the case)

The only time you don't really need the VP50 is when you have true 1080p source and true 1080p display as there is no need for scaling or anyhting (btw, the same stands for any other res match)

So, in my opinion, the answer to your question is...yes!

Regards,

kopa13

I ran the Pio elite avi 79 for about 10 minutes. No noticeable audio drops.

I ran U571 and Constatine through the HDA1 for about 10 minutes each. There might have been one audio drop in each disc that was so brief that I cannot say for sure.

Lastly, I ran the Nacho Libre disk through the HDA1 again for 10 minutes. Numerous audio drops (duration very short but obviously there) and the occassional chirping sound. I cleaned the disk before playing this morning.

Also, the menu items on the VP50 is not as smooth as it was before the FW update.

Any comments.

i have not tried a hard reset yet.

Warren

Lastly, I ran the Nacho Libre disk through the HDA1 again for 10 minutes. Numerous audio drops (duration very short but obviously there) and the occassional chirping sound. I cleaned the disk before playing this morning.

Also, the menu items on the VP50 is not as smooth as it was before the FW update.


You are not alone. I have the exact same issues with v1.01 and had reported to DVDO.

The "very brief drop-outs" seem to occur only with multi-channel audio source and applies to both digital-optical and HDMI audio inputs. Personally, I would rather experience the 1-2 sec occassional audio drop-outs in v1.0 than to suffer the new audio issue introduced by the beta firmware.

Interesting about the audio. We watched Pirates DMC last night, without a single audio drop (running oppo 970HD hdmi 480i into the vp50, but also running digital coax and using that for audio). The picture quality was simply incredible. Now, I have noticed a few brief dropouts on my dishHD sat receiver, but nothing as bad as before. I agree, that when they occur they are quick and not the two second dropouts from the previous version. SJ

Question: when watching satelitte or cable is there any additional delay when changing channels from an SD channel to an HD channel as the VP tries to resolve the resolution change? Thanks

Question: when watching satelitte or cable is there any additional delay when changing channels from an SD channel to an HD channel as the VP tries to resolve the resolution change? Thanks

In the words of the ex-Prez, define "extra-delay." Maybe 1-2 seconds - not objectionable, but not instant. If nothing else, imagine a part of it is just filling the buffer in the VP. -- I have an lcd panel on my workstation, in same room as fpj; there is a very large difference between the two displays - with and without the VP50. Probably nearing a second, all by itself.

So, yes, there is a noticeable delay; longer than between changing HD channels - which is always less than instantaneous with my HD sources, and much longer than surfing channels on SD, nstc cable. But never longer than 2 - possibly three seconds. Truthfully, have never timed it. ;)

Thanks, I had heard in some review that the delay was up to 5 seconds of delay. One last question: if I have HD showing in 16;9 and SD at 4:3 I assume that this will happen automatically when I switch channels

Hi,

Can someone tell me please what is the best configuration (only video) for connecting satellite receivers SD and HD via vp50 to a 720 native display?

The SD receiver has only RGB scart(s) which can be configured to component (YPbPr) and can only output 576i.

The HD receiver has hdmi and component and from the hdmi can only do 576p, 720p and 1080p. (Note it only outputs progressive and no interlaced signals. At least via hdmi which I have got it connected)

At the moment:
The SD is connected via a scart to component+Sync adaptor with component cable to component i/p on the vp50 to HDMI output in my FPJ.

The HD is connected via hdmi to vp50 to hdmi to my display.

The reason I am asking is that I don't like the picture I see so far from either one. There seems to be jagger in the picture depending on the channel (on both but less in the HD) ie sport or movies. Even different film channels showing up diffrerent ie some better than others. FTA channels showing better on both. Encrypted channels vary a lot.

So I thought there may be a better way to connect them or perhaps a setting on the VP50 that I am not aware.

Note that deinterlacing on VP50 is on auto on all cases and I leave in a Pal area.

Many thanks,

kopa13

...the SD from my Toshiba HD-XA1 [is] really the best SD playback I've seen... (And gdemott also concurred on it being better than the Oppo.) My question is do you guys feed the output to the VP50 or do you let the Toshiba upscale? If outputting to the VP50 do you have to resort to an analogue connection to get 480i?

Hi Wixx,

I own the same front pj (as one of my display sources) and I connect a VP50 through both HDMI-to-DVI-d (for digital) and through Component (analogue) and I can tell you that the difference is very noticable on both connections.

the pj can output 1280x720 natively. Here is a link for a review from audioholics http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/hitachi-PJ-TX100p1.php
where amongst other things like comments on calibration you will find out that this 2 year old pj can support 1080p!!! which I can confirm (though not recommended by the reviewer)


But regardless with the display a VP50 is a good investement which offers similar, if not better with a lot more expensive processors (Note: Can't say this with extreme confidence as I have not tried any of the more expensive processors but from what I have been reading around this seems to be the case)

The only time you don't really need the VP50 is when you have true 1080p source and true 1080p display as there is no need for scaling or anyhting (btw, the same stands for any other res match)

So, in my opinion, the answer to your question is...yes!

Regards,

kopa13


Thx for your answer Kopa13,

I have a spyder calibrator but still need to recalibrate since I will be using the HCFR prog now, so if I use the DVDO patterns to calibrate the FPJ and then calibrate the DVD player with the same patterns the video chain should be properly calibrated right? Finishing the tuning at the very end with the scaler that is.

The other question is, which type of connection should I use from the scaler to my CRT which only has a europeean RGB scart? YUV to Scart or BNC to scart?

You mentionned a 1080p capability of the PJTX100, in which way is it bad to feed it with such a signal?? Should I maintain the native 720P or try to feed a 1080/60?


thx again for your help, much appreceated since I might be an enthusiast but I still lack much knowledge in this field.

Hi,

Can someone tell me please what is the best configuration (only video) for connecting satellite receivers SD and HD via vp50 to a 720 native display?

The SD receiver has only RGB scart(s) which can be configured to component (YPbPr) and can only output 576i.

The HD receiver has hdmi and component and from the hdmi can only do 576p, 720p and 1080p. (Note it only outputs progressive and no interlaced signals. At least via hdmi which I have got it connected)

At the moment:
The SD is connected via a scart to component+Sync adaptor with component cable to component i/p on the vp50 to HDMI output in my FPJ.

The HD is connected via hdmi to vp50 to hdmi to my display.

The reason I am asking is that I don't like the picture I see so far from either one. There seems to be jagger in the picture depending on the channel (on both but less in the HD) ie sport or movies. Even different film channels showing up diffrerent ie some better than others. FTA channels showing better on both. Encrypted channels vary a lot.

So I thought there may be a better way to connect them or perhaps a setting on the VP50 that I am not aware.

Note that deinterlacing on VP50 is on auto on all cases and I leave in a Pal area.

Many thanks,

kopa13
What do you mean by "jagger" - do you mean "judder"? One of the odd defaults on the vp30 (although I don't recall it being the same on the 50 to be honest) was that 50Hz sources had output framerate locked to 60Hz causing nasty effects. So check that first, should be 50 Locked of course.

fwiw, my 576i/1080i (both @ 50Hz) sat box and DVD (same as yours, Oppo 970HD) look great through the vp50.

As for your earlier question about PReP - I tried it just for fun & it looked identical to me. I left the player on 480i/576i of course.

What do you mean by "jagger" - do you mean "judder"? yes ;)

One of the odd defaults on the vp30 (although I don't recall it being the same on the 50 to be honest) was that 50Hz sources had output framerate locked to 60Hz causing nasty effects. So check that first, should be 50 Locked of course.
This was the first thing I've checked and it is locked at 50Hz for my pal sources.

fwiw, my 576i/1080i (both @ 50Hz) sat box and DVD (same as yours, Oppo 970HD) look great through the vp50.
My Oppo looks great too. It is just with the sat receivers (Dreambox 7020S SD and Humax HDCI 2000 HD) that I don't get similar performance. That is why I asked about the configuration. Just in case I have done something wrong. Note however, that I get more Judder (at least more noticable anyway) with sports. Which makes sense as there is more (rapid change in) movement involved.

As for your earlier question about PReP - I tried it just for fun & it looked identical to me. I left the player on 480i/576i of course.
I didn't notice anything different either, apart for my earlier comment on the picture being a bit brighter (ie higher contrast)! So I have mine at 480i/576i (depending on the DVD disc) too

On another topic, concerning the Oppo...Do you know if you can add new/other video codecs to the player (thinking divx and xvid here)?

Cheers,

Kopa13

I have had the Pioneer 5000ex for six months and have been used to super qaulity picture from both sd and hd signals using both component and hdmi connections,but like a lot of others,I was looking for that bit extra so I bought the vp50.Well I have tweaked every way possable but the truth is,the Pioneer produces as good a picture without the iscan as with it.So I have wasted my cash,and will have to just sell cheap to ease the pain.

Thx for your answer Kopa13,

I have a spyder calibrator but still need to recalibrate since I will be using the HCFR prog now, so if I use the DVDO patterns to calibrate the FPJ and then calibrate the DVD player with the same patterns the video chain should be properly calibrated right? Finishing the tuning at the very end with the scaler that is.

This is a quote from an earlier post in this thread regarding the above:

Use the test patterns in the DVDO to calibrate your display using your display's controls. Then use test patterns generated by your sources (DVE/Avia on a DVD player, InHD/HDNet Test Patterns on a DVR). Use the DVDO's picture controls to balance each source. Fiddle the picture controls until the source generated test patterns match the DVDO generated patterns. The DVDO generated split test patterns let you see both the source and internal patterns at the same time.

- Collin


The other question is, which type of connection should I use from the scaler to my CRT which only has a europeean RGB scart? YUV to Scart or BNC to scart?
As you can see from my post above I m having some problems with my connections too. However, note that unless your CRT scart is configurable and can carry component YPbPr signal then you cannot use a scart to component cable to connect and get YPbYr. This is what I know. Perhaps some one else can help you on this issue with more info.

You mentionned a 1080p capability of the PJTX100, in which way is it bad to feed it with such a signal?? Should I maintain the native 720P or try to feed a 1080/60?
It is not bad. The reviewer was probably thinking that the PJ scaler is not that good as its native res is 720. And he is probably right mind you ;) as this is undocumented support and if your product can do this you want to scream it ;).
From my experience it didn't look that bad but I prefer feeding my displays their native or if you are unlike to have a plasma (bitter comment here ;)) the closest one.


thx again for your help, much appreceated since I might be an enthusiast but I still lack much knowledge in this field.
No problem. We all learn something new almost everyday :)

I have had the Pioneer 5000ex for six months and have been used to super qaulity picture from both sd and hd signals using both component and hdmi connections,but like a lot of others,I was looking for that bit extra so I bought the vp50.Well I have tweaked every way possable but the truth is,the Pioneer produces as good a picture without the iscan as with it.So I have wasted my cash,and will have to just sell cheap to ease the pain.

Did you purchase your VP50 from DVDO?

If you did you have 30 days to determine if the VP50 works for you. They offer a no quibble 100% money back guarantee if your not satisifed for any reason!

(And gdemott also concurred on it being better than the Oppo.) My question is do you guys feed the output to the VP50 or do you let the Toshiba upscale? If outputting to the VP50 do you have to resort to an analogue connection to get 480i?

My Oppo has the standard DVI output plus SDI output. The Oppo in my opinion and for my setup cannot compare to the Toshiba XA1 when playing SD discs. I have tried every combination output from the Oppo available and fed the signal output into the VP50.

The best possible picture over HDMI on the XA1 was obtained on my setup using 1080i output on the XA1 into the VP50.

I have stated here before that nothing converts SD discs in my system as good as my Panasonic RP82 SDI player 480i.

I will admit however I never tried 480i component out from the XA1 only HDMI.

Thanks, I had heard in some review that the delay was up to 5 seconds of delay. One last question: if I have HD showing in 16;9 and SD at 4:3 I assume that this will happen automatically when I switch channels

Yes it does - slick as all get out, and I had to do nothing to get it to work. Pretty cool when things work as designed. :D (oops - and if they are designed well.)

Did you purchase your VP50 from DVDO?

If you did you have 30 days to determine if the VP50 works for you. They offer a no quibble 100% money back guarantee if your not satisifed for any reason!
No I purchased from Lenexpo,but they say that they give the same gaurantee,so I will do as you say and ask them for refund.Thanks for your reply
alwyn

could anyone tell me if there is a go around the hdcp protection ? i have a LCD panel connected via RGBHV and a dvd player with hdmi. is there a patch or ist it just working ?

Ok, I've gotten pretty comfortable with my VP-50, so now I want to get into more tweaking -- using more of the power of the VP-50 to make my video experiences even better. One of the things I've been playing with is 48Hz playback for movies. My display is a Sharp XV-Z2000 720p front projection DLP. It seems to handle 48Hz ok - when I lock 60Hz to 48Hz the bouncing white bar test pattern continues to be smooth, so I think my projector displays 48Hz natively instead of converting it back to 60Hz. The problem I have is that I lose 1:1 pixel mapping. Some overscan comes into play (maybe 10 pixels on a side) and the fine-line test patterns (vertical, horizontal, and grid) all go to mush.

So the question is, is there something I can do to fix this? If, for example, I modified the output from "720p-60" to something custom, would that get me back? I realize that this is a Sharp specific question, not a VP-50 question, but I am hoping someone else here with experience with this could at least point me in the right direction.

Jason

I too have the Sharp XVZ2k and VP50. I've played with 48hz on and off. Tried it again the other night while watching a movie (hd-dvd) and kept getting slight pauses. Not on pans but at some scene transitions. Not sure its dropping out of film mode or what. Went back to 60hz and was happier.

Never thought about overscan at 48hz, I'll have to throw up the test patterns next time I play with it.

If your projector locks into overscan at 48hz, I would recommend staying with 60hz. The benefits of 1:1 pixel mapping far outweigh the benefits of 48hz frame rate conversion, IMO.

Will the VP50 accept a 1080p signal over component? How about the BNC?

If not how does the 360 internal 1080p scaling compare to it outputing 1080i and having the VP50 deinterlace?

If your projector locks into overscan at 48hz, I would recommend staying with 60hz. The benefits of 1:1 pixel mapping far outweigh the benefits of 48hz frame rate conversion, IMO.I completely agree, and will dump the 48Hz if I can't get it to work with 1:1 pixel mapping. Not knowing my options, I'm just wondering if there is any way around the overscan lock. Should I be poking around in the service menu (muhahaha!)? Should I try changing the VP-50 output? Should I leave the thing alone and be happy with what I've got? :)

I'm running FW 1.01 and have an HD-A1 connected to the VP 50 via HDMI. My VP is connected to my AVR via HDMI. The problem I'm having is there are times when I'm only getting 2 channels via PCM. I've tried different settings for the A1 with inconsistent results. This happened recently and when I unplugged/plugged in the VP 50 I got all channels. This most recent occurence suggests to me that my 50 is the culprit. Anybody with similar experience?

I've sent email to DVDO but have not received a reply.

Hi, When choosing to run 1080p@60, the VP50 only lets me select framerates of 24/48Hz. Why is 60 blanked out? I know my device supports it (Analogway DVX8022 video processor via rgbhv). First I thought it was doing it for film sources which doesnt bother me, but it's even doing it on my xbox360 and video sources. It doesnt make a difference what deinterlacing method I choose either.

Hi, When choosing to run 1080p@60, the VP50 only lets me select framerates of 24/48Hz. Why is 60 blanked out? I know my device supports it (Analogway DVX8022 video processor via rgbhv). First I thought it was doing it for film sources which doesnt bother me, but it's even doing it on my xbox360 and video sources. It doesnt make a difference what deinterlacing method I choose either.

Did you by chance select the 1080p50 mode from the format menu then try selecting the Hz menu from the 60Hz source framerate menu?

I found the same thing when I did that but if I select the 1080p60 format I can change both the 50 and 60Hz source framerate options to any of the values.

Alas my new 1080p TV doesn't work with just changing the framerate and I actually have to switch between the 1080p50 and 1080p60 formats to get a picture (time to read up on the auto profile feature thingy :rolleyes: ).

(And gdemott also concurred on it being better than the Oppo.) My question is do you guys feed the output to the VP50 or do you let the Toshiba upscale? If outputting to the VP50 do you have to resort to an analogue connection to get 480i?

Jlib,

Hello,

To answer your question, I found the PQ much better letting the HD-XA1 Upscale the SD DVD's to 1080i And then Sending it to the VP-50 via HDMI. I am then also outputting 1080i from the VP-50 to my Pioneer PDP 50" Plasma even though it's a 768p display everything looks better @1080.

It's doesn't make sense I know but even my SA 8300HD Scientific Atlanta cable box looks better if I let it upscale SD channels to 1080i and then send that to the VP-50, than If I send the VP-50 Native 480i...

I know it shouldn't but I've went back and forth a 1000 times, and sending the VP-50 1080i looks better.

BTW... The Toshiba looked better than the Oppo 971w/SDI to the VP-50, all by itself! even w/o the VP-50, and then looked better yet with it!

Best,

RoydRage

Will the VP50 accept a 1080p signal over component? How about the BNC?

No, it will only accept 1080p over HDMI.

If not how does the 360 internal 1080p scaling compare to it outputing 1080i and having the VP50 deinterlace?

If you're talking about games, 720p games should be output at 720p and let the VP50 scale from there for best results. Are there any 1080p games for the 360?

I'm running my legacy Pioneer CLD-M401 Laser Disk player to the VP50 using the S-Video connection (still have about 175 LD's :) ).

From what I've read the Pioneer may have a better comb filter than the VP50 and for that reason I should use the it's composite output.

Anyone know which would be give the better PQ?

Mike

could anyone tell me if there is a go around the hdcp protection ? i have a LCD panel connected via RGBHV and a dvd player with hdmi. is there a patch or ist it just working ?

Pharados, it's pretty unlikely for DVDO to deliberately release a "patch" that would undermine the HDCP license agreement. Another company I had purchased some gear from (Dtrovision) had a DVI to RGBHV box that would "convert" HDCP encrypted digital content to RGBHV video "legally" - they got caught and shut down on this box. It's not pretty having Digital-CP's lawers kicking down your door and serving you with a "cease and desist" then handing you the law-suit for their trouble.

If you have a DVD player that is outputting DVI or HDMI with HDCP and an LCD that only accepts RGBHV you're part of the "analog hole" our congress and the movie studios are trying to do away with (speak now or forever get no picture).

I'd recommend that you use the component video outputs from the DVD player or get it modded for SDI (No HDCP).

Cheers!

-LD :cool:

I'm running my legacy Pioneer CLD-M401 Laser Disk player to the VP50 using the S-Video connection (still have about 175 LD's :) ).

From what I've read the Pioneer may have a better comb filter than the VP50 and for that reason I should use the it's composite output.

It's highly doubtful that the low-end M401 from 1992 has a better comb filter than the VP50. To be honest, the only laserdisc players that had decent comb filters were the CLD-D704 (and its "Elite" clone the CLD-79), the CLD-99, and the exotic Japanese high-end decks.

If your LD player has the better comb filter, use the S-video output.
If your display or video processor has the better comb filter, use the Composite output.

You should use the Composite output from your player.

I'm running FW 1.01 and have an HD-A1 connected to the VP 50 via HDMI. My VP is connected to my AVR via HDMI. The problem I'm having is there are times when I'm only getting 2 channels via PCM.
I reported this issue with FW 1.01 somewhere way back in this thread. Try switching the VP50 to another input (which will likely result in an HDMI error on the A1) then switch the VP50 back to the A1 and press play. This usually restores 5.1 channel PCM on my setup.

It's highly doubtful that the low-end M401 from 1992 has a better comb filter than the VP50 ... You should use the Composite output from your player.Yes, the VP50 does a very good job with composite. I used it for a couple weeks with my Wii's composite output (which I've read is about as clean a composite signal as you ever see) while they were having a component cable shortage, and it looked a lot better than I was expecting. Thin red lines over black backgrounds, sharp color and brightness transitions, etc, all looked, if not good, then at least much more tolerable than I remembered from composite video in the past.

When I am outputting 1080P from the VP50 into a 1080P input able display the VP50 menu is very tiny and difficult to read with its current color combination. If I change the output to any other setting including 1080i it is easily seen from across the room. I do not see anywhere to change font size but just wondering why 1080i is big while 1080p is painfully small.

Hello guys. I am new to this forum and have been reading the material here for a few weeks now. I am also relatively new to the whole HDTV world. After doing my due diligence, a couple of weeks ago I purchased a Sony KDS-R60XBR2 and a Denon DVD-5910CI.

Now, to get the last measure of quality out of my system, I am considering picking up the VP50. I have a couple of questions.

1) With the Denon player having on-board DVDO scaling by Anchor Bay and a Silicon Optix REALTA video processor, as well as 1080P output, would the purchase of the VP50 be redundant for my DVD playback, or would it improve the quality even more?

2) Would the VP50 improve the quality of standard definition TV on the Sony set I mentioned above (which accepts 1080P input.)

Thanks for your opinions and input.

When I ouput the VP50 built-in horizontal line test pattern at 1080p to a no-overscan perfect pixel 1080p display it looks fine. If I change to 1080i output the lines disappear and I get a solid dark image. What does this imply about the display? It is a static image so such things as BOB deinterlacing shouldn't apply, right? I think that I should not really be able to see a difference between the the two inputs. Can anyone explain why this might be happening?

When I ouput the VP50 built-in horizontal line test pattern at 1080p to a no-overscan perfect pixel 1080p display it looks fine. If I change to 1080i output the lines disappear and I get a solid dark image. What does this imply about the display? It is a static image so such things as BOB deinterlacing shouldn't apply, right? I think that I should not really be able to see a difference between the the two inputs. Can anyone explain why this might be happening?This test pattern is effectively disabled for 1080i output. The reason for this is that since it's a vertically alternating set of horizontal black and white lines, an interlaced signal will display alternating black and white frames. This causes a simply awful strobing effect (it's really, really annoying :eek: ) and because of this it's disabled for 1080i output.

- Dale Adams

...I found the PQ much better letting the HD-XA1 Upscale the SD DVD's to 1080i And then Sending it to the VP-50 via HDMI. I am then also outputting 1080i from the VP-50 to my Pioneer PDP 50" Plasma even though it's a 768p display everything looks better @1080.

It's doesn't make sense I know but even my SA 8300HD Scientific Atlanta cable box looks better if I let it upscale SD channels to 1080i and then send that to the VP-50, than If I send the VP-50 Native 480i... Yeah, you are right, that makes no sense especially since you said you are inputting 1080i and outputting 1080i. I had been considering getting the HD-XA1 (or the next gen one) but was concerned that it did not do 480i out the HDMI so I was going to get the Oppo that does do 480i via HDMI (since I won't be replacing current SD DVD library). Your comment and gdemott's makes me reconsider that. Having an HD-DVD player that does great SD would be ideal since I can only stack just so many discreet components. Thanks!

This test pattern is effectively disabled for 1080i output. The reason for this is that since it's a vertically alternating set of horizontal black and white lines, an interlaced signal will display alternating black and white frames. This causes a simply awful strobing effect (it's really, really annoying :eek: ) and because of this it's disabled for 1080i output.Ah, I see. Well, would I see a strobe effect if my display is deinterlacing the static 1080i image from the VP50 to its native 1080p? What would be great is to have the moving bar of the pulldown pattern combined with horizontal lines image. That way it could be used as a test for motion adaptive deinterlacing on the display. If it BOBs it will be very evident by the disapperance of the distinction between the lines.

I reported this issue with FW 1.01 somewhere way back in this thread. Try switching the VP50 to another input (which will likely result in an HDMI error on the A1) then switch the VP50 back to the A1 and press play. This usually restores 5.1 channel PCM on my setup.

Thanks, I'll give it a try.

Well, would I see a strobe effect if my display is deinterlacing the static 1080i image from the VP50 to its native 1080p?Yes. From the perspective of the display the signal put out by the iScan would not be static as there would effectively be 'movement' between each field. Field N would be all white, field N+1 all black, field N+2 all white, etc.

- Dale Adams

I have had the Pioneer 5000ex for six months and have been used to super qaulity picture from both sd and hd signals using both component and hdmi connections,but like a lot of others,I was looking for that bit extra so I bought the vp50.Well I have tweaked every way possable but the truth is,the Pioneer produces as good a picture without the iscan as with it.So I have wasted my cash,and will have to just sell cheap to ease the pain.

make sure you choose 'dot by dot' mode on the pioneer menu - otherwise the panel will still be processing the signal unecessarily .... it should make a big difference....

you may want to send a PM to Ofer Laor (moderator of the Native Rate section of the forum), he has the same panel and made a clear visible difference in his set up....

Native rate should make a visible difference in clarity and PQ ...

Hello guys. I am new to this forum and have been reading the material here for a few weeks now. I am also relatively new to the whole HDTV world. After doing my due diligence, a couple of weeks ago I purchased a Sony KDS-R60XBR2 and a Denon DVD-5910CI.

Now, to get the last measure of quality out of my system, I am considering picking up the VP50. I have a couple of questions.

1) With the Denon player having on-board DVDO scaling by Anchor Bay and a Silicon Optix REALTA video processor, as well as 1080P output, would the purchase of the VP50 be redundant for my DVD playback, or would it improve the quality even more?

2) Would the VP50 improve the quality of standard definition TV on the Sony set I mentioned above (which accepts 1080P input.)

Thanks for your opinions and input.
1) VP50 will be pretty much redundant as your Denon DVD player has built in scaler / processor. You will need to shutdown all processing / scaling and run your expensive all-in-one player in 480i /576i interlaced, to take advantage of the VP50. Pretty much a waste of good money to do the same thing as you can already do now - but remember this is only for DVD playback. Where as the VP50 can apply this to your DVD player plus all your other source components as well and scale everything to your displays native resolution (1080i/1080p).

2) For SD television use, the VP50 should definitely be an improvement over the tv's simple internal scaler, when output @ 1080p via the VP50. Your Sony would simply BOB field scale your image from 480i /576i to 1080p . It all comes down to processing power and scaling ability and the VP50 is superior.

Denon Link is a sort of proprietary IEEE-1394(firewire) connection which has been SACD capable for a long time.
Not so fast ...
Denon Link is proprietary to Denon , unlike IEEE-1394 which is an standard used by many manufacturers (Denon included), but slowly dying off.
In fact, Denon Link is just an orduinary Ethernet Cat5 cable.
Only Denon Link 3 has been capable of passing SACD (available since 2005).

what dvd will be the better choice to connect to the vp50

panasonic s52 with sdi
pioneer 696 with sdi
pioneer 696 via hdmi 576i
oppo 970 via hdmi 576i
oppo 971 via sdi ?

Not so fast ...
Denon Link is proprietary to Denon , unlike IEEE-1394 which is an standard used by many manufacturers (Denon included), but slowly dying off.
In fact, Denon Link is just an orduinary Ethernet Cat5 cable.
Only Denon Link 3 has been capable of passing SACD (available since 2005).
The physical connection has been capable of passing SACD since it's inception. The hold up was getting licensing from Sony/Philips to allow Denon to carry SACD on their connection. There were a few members here that actually had SACD working on their Denon equipment even before Denon was licensed to do so.

what dvd will be the better choice to connect to the vp50

panasonic s52 with sdi
pioneer 696 with sdi
pioneer 696 via hdmi 576i
oppo 970 via hdmi 576i
oppo 971 via sdi ?


I have only seen the Oppos in person - I own the 970 and it does a great job @ 576i via HDMI ... however, the 971 via SDI has a slightly better PQ .... a little more 3-D ....
I've tried both and I'm happy with the price/performance of the 970....

So the Million dollar question, in your opinion what's better:

- a Denon DVD-3930
- a VP50 and a "budget" DVD player
- a DVD-3930 and a VP50 (and a divorce)

I'll use all this on a 1080p 40inch Samsung LCD, I also own a PS3, Xbox with HDDVD and a HTPC.

Thx

So the Million dollar question, in your opinion what's better:

- a Denon DVD-3930
- a VP50 and a "budget" DVD player
- a DVD-3930 and a VP50 (and a divorce)

I'll use all this on a 1080p 40inch Samsung LCD, I also own a PS3, Xbox with HDDVD and a HTPC.

Thx
the answer is the VP50 with just about any player you want.

So the Million dollar question, in your opinion what's better:

- a Denon DVD-3930
- a VP50 and a "budget" DVD player
- a DVD-3930 and a VP50 (and a divorce)

I'll use all this on a 1080p 40inch Samsung LCD, I also own a PS3, Xbox with HDDVD and a HTPC.

Thx

My preference would be for an SDI modified Panny RP-82 based player fed into a VP50. If all you care about is DVD playback the 3930 is a cheaper option and will give you picture quality in the same league as the VP50. The VP50 however has more options to more closely match your display and can be used to improve the picture quality of not just DVD, but your STB, HD-DVD, BluRay, LD, or whatever you want to feed it.

- Collin

My preference would be for an SDI modified Panny RP-82 based player fed into a VP50. If all you care about is DVD playback the 3930 is a cheaper option and will give you picture quality in the same league as the VP50. The VP50 however has more options to more closely match your display and can be used to improve the picture quality of not just DVD, but your STB, HD-DVD, BluRay, LD, or whatever you want to feed it.

- Collin

You got a link to the Panny, can't find it maybe it's because the EU model as a different SKU name. thx

So the Million dollar question, in your opinion what's better:

- a Denon DVD-3930
- a VP50 and a "budget" DVD player
- a DVD-3930 and a VP50 (and a divorce)

I'll use all this on a 1080p 40inch Samsung LCD, I also own a PS3, Xbox with HDDVD and a HTPC.

Thx

I actually saw the 970 and 971 side by side with the vp50 on a samsung 40" LCD (commercial model - could do 1:1) .

like somone said before.... the VP50 and a cheap 'oppo' will outperform the 3930 and be on par with the 5xx30 from denon.. with the benefit that you can also improve your PQ from pretty much all other sources.....

with the coming of HD DVD, I would not invest heavily on existing DVD technology.... the oppo 970 & VP50 are great 'bang for your buck' investment with a balance between the now (970 DVD) and future (1080i/1080p with the VP50) .....

the VP50 will also improve your PS3, Xbox and HDVDV (1080i deinterlacing with game mode, etc....)

Yeah I heard about this Oppo player, although it seems it's difficult to find in Europe, so you are saying it's performing particulary good with the Oppo or you are saying it will perform good with any cheap DVD player, I have a Samsung HD-850 with had some decent results in DVD benchmarks but of course nothing spectacular, you think it's going to be a good couple?

so i bought today the LG 9900H with has HDMI withotu hdcp and it can display 576i !!!! great i hope it works.

yesterday i installed the VP50 1.01 software and found new problem,

before it was posible to run a ntsc disc via a pal player to the hdmi interface to the vp50, now the picture was stucking al #l the time :-( with yuv it is no problem. :-(

Just one last question, I noticed on the Denon DVD-3930 that when the video is upscaled SD to 1080P it creates noise especialy in the backround, anyone can comment if the VP50 is doing the same, I'm a bit worried since it has no NR options at least with the 3930 there Digital and Mpeg Noise reduction.

Thx

You got a link to the Panny, can't find it maybe it's because the EU model as a different SKU name. thx

The Panasonic RP-82 hasn't been made in a while, but you can find it on the secondary market. The same chipset was used in the Panasonic CP-72 & XP30, Denon 1600, Yamaha CX-1, C920, C6480 and others. I don't know what the European models were. My CX-1 is capable of PAL playback (after the region mod) so I imagine they used the chipset in European players of the time, but don't know for sure. You could always use a US player with a region mod and an AC converter.

Here's a link to some reviews. (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all&type=&manufacturer=0&maxprice=0&deInt=0&mpeg=MEI) Note that not all these are the same as the RP-82. Look for the ones with the MEI MN67753IKA MPEG decoder.

- Collin

Look for the ones with the MEI MN67753IKA MPEG decoder.

- Collin

If this decoder is extremely good, why isn't it still being used? :confused:
Seems odd to me.