Rumor is that all of the studios have an unofficial agreement to hold off on implementing ICT until at least 2010, possibly 2012. This should give the majority of interested High Definition consumers enough time to upgrade to an HDMI display.A pity that they (and/or the HDMI/HDCP consortium) haven't adopted the same sensible approach to SD DVDs!

Daniel,

I had not heard any official word on HD-SDI for VP50.

Well 'sources' can always be wrong :), This is atleast what i understood and that there
is no official word makes sense would not be a smart move of dvdo to announce it as such yet. I do admit i was kind of shocked at the time they would move so fast on hdssdi so maybe the source was confused.

Greetings,

Daniel.

I've got a device that I'm pretty sure is sending PC video levels via HDMI. I can access the input level menu, but I can only select Video levels; the PC levels option is grayed out. Is there a trick to allow me to select Video levels? In the meantime I'm just fiddling picture controls to compensate.

Thanks,
Collin

Daniel,

No idea, but it's a borderline issue - I'm not really sure how much of a future HD-SDI really has with such a huge investment riding on HDMI and HDCP compliant displays.

I'm one of the many who rooted for SDI, but I haven't really used my SDI DVD player in ages, in favor of HDMI and DVI sources...

I have a problem with PAL 576i YPbPr input to the VP-50.

If I feed the COMP2 input of my VP-50 (FW 1.01) with a YPbPr PAL interlaced (576i) signal I get completely crushed blacks. No "Blacker than Black" any more, crushed blacks below 30IRE. I had to change the IRE setting of my DVD player from 0IRE to 7.5IRE to get the blacks back (this is only a workaround), because PAL needs 0IRE.

If I connect the player directly to the display device, everything is fine.
If I use a RGBS signal (576i) everything is fine.

At present I am using the analog YPbPr output of the VP-50.
So 576i PAL50 interlaced YPbPr in to 576p@50 YPbPr out => blacks are totally crushed

If I switch my DVD player to 576p then everyting is all right, no crushed blacks at 0IRE.

Please, could anyone confirm that or did I make a mistake?

Please, is there anybody who can test this?
I have still no feedback from DVDO.

True in your case, with your device, I won't dispute that - you are too distinguished a contributor. However, I do know, from my own experience, that the PS3 will output hdmi bd disks, and it works thru both of my convertors. So all you have really confirmed is that your DC-DA-1 no longer works. :(

OTOH, there is still an inexpensive one that does work for the PS3 - no idea if it works for your HD-DVD, don't have one. So easy on the blanket statements, scaring folks. There are still options that don't involve vaporware HD-SDI solutions.

I wasn't making a blanket statement. I was just reporting what happened to me and what I assumed was behind it. If you've managed to make it work, I'll play around some more with my old DC-DA1 and see what I can do. Perhaps I just had something configured wrong.

No Josh, don't wast time on my account. I'm using two other units, not the DC-DA1. I had planned to sell one, since I can only use one at a time. Another member counseled me to keep what I had, in case one got "turned off." After hearing your experience, I believe I'll do just that - keep what I have, and hope it continues to work until my 980 Ultra no longer functions.

Sorry to hear that yours died. That is bad news. If nothing else, means that the rest may die sooner, rather than later. fwiw, mine still runs with fw 1.50 on the PS3. :)

Josh is back.... in the VP 30 thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9622082#post9622082) .... New VP30 firmware to fix the audio problems in mid March :)

Now, I don't want to seem ungrateful, but since you're back Josh.... any news on the next VP50 firmware......

I just tried my second blue ray disk playing from my ps3 to my vp50.

I would estimate that we had over 100 audio drops that lasted a fraction of a second.

Ps3 is feeding the vp50 via hdmi and using either fibre optic or cable connection to bryston sp2.

Any thoughts.
Are you running the beta 1.01 firmware? This fixed the intermittent audio drops for most people.

I think there are 2 separate but related problems. In order to clarify it would be nice if we could agree to refer to the audio discontinuities that last for several seconds as "Audio Drops" and the ones that last for fractions of a second "Audio Hiccups".

In my system VP50 firmware 1.01 fixed the "Audio Drop" issue (unless the STB does the drop). It did not fix the "Audio Hiccup" issue as that is there with firmware 1.01. In fact I can not state if it was there with firmware 1.00, so it might actually have been introduced in firmware 1.01.

DVDO is aware of the "Audio Hiccup" issue in firmware 1.01 as I have spoken to them about it as have several others. I was told it was being looked into.

yes,

I am running the beta software.

Warren

I think there are 2 separate but related problems. In order to clarify it would be nice if we could agree to refer to the audio discontinuities that last for several seconds as "Audio Drops" and the ones that last for fractions of a second "Audio Hiccups".

In my system VP50 firmware 1.01 fixed the "Audio Drop" issue (unless the STB does the drop). It did not fix the "Audio Hiccup" issue as that is there with firmware 1.01. In fact I can not state if it was there with firmware 1.00, so it might actually have been introduced in firmware 1.01.

DVDO is aware of the "Audio Hiccup" issue in firmware 1.01 as I have spoken to them about it as have several others. I was told it was being looked into.
Barry, if I could add then here a similar definition on Video discontinuities. I still suffer from Video drop-outs (not hiccups) lasting from 1 to 3 seconds - screen goes completely black; NOT snow or pixelisation. I'm currently running Vs 1.0, but the same problem was there with Vs 1.01 that I did have running for a couple of days. And I too still suffer from audio hickups with both versions - I've never had drop-outs (I've no HDCP sources though, and therefore all the more odd that I get Video drop-outs).

And I too still suffer from audio hickups with both versions - I've never had drop-outs (I've no HDCP sources though, and therefore all the more odd that I get Video drop-outs).

any chance at all it could be a PAL/synch thing? just wondering - I had some horrible video, trying to watch video (football game) at 1080i/72. No dropouts, but shimmery graphics, truly the worst picture I'd ever seen.

but I have only had one audio dropout or hiccup (mine were always longer than your fraction, but shorter than 3 seconds :) ) since upgrading to the beta; and I am pretty dang sure that glitch was due to source material (OTA HD) and not the VP.

any chance at all it could be a PAL/synch thing? just wondering - I had some horrible video, trying to watch video (football game) at 1080i/72. No dropouts, but shimmery graphics, truly the worst picture I'd ever seen.
Could be, although when I play back the same scene, there is no dropout. Never get any shimmering or the like. Also, I've never to date had any video dropout on DVDs - be they PAL or NTSC or downloaded HD files.
but I have only had one audio dropout or hiccup (mine were always longer than your fraction, but shorter than 3 seconds :) ) since upgrading to the beta; and I am pretty dang sure that glitch was due to source material (OTA HD) and not the VP.On my setup, the 3 second dropouts only occur on VIDEO, not audio.

On my setup, the 3 second dropouts only occur on VIDEO, not audio.

You got my sympathies, mate. There are enough quite parts in a movie, or at least parts without dialog, people can live with a 3 second dropout if they have to. (just read all the above posts above, from folks who think it "isn't that big a deal.")

But mostly - for those who had dropouts, there was always the helpful individual telling us to "route the audio direct - bypass the VP50." Have you tried that solution? - just leave the VP50 out of your video chain, and the video dropouts will probably disappear. :D

Have you tried that solution? - just leave the VP50 out of your video chain, and the video dropouts will probably disappear. :D :D :D :D

I would like to ask for your advice on the following:
AFAIK, most film material encoded on HD discs is at 1080fp24. I am seriously contemplating the purchase of a HD-XE1 which only outputs 1080i/p@60 starting from the original fp24 content. If I were to route the video output of the XE1 (1080i60) through a VP50 and output 1080p24 to a compatible display, how much would you say the perceived loss of PQ (time domain considered) would be compared to a situation where the source content could be output @1080fp24 directly to the display ?
TIA,
Dorian

@Josh

Will you add the noise reduction feature soon to the VP50?

I went ahead and ordered an HDMI FLEA this week from AVS for my Broadcast sources. There was no way to know when/if the NR feature was going to be implemented so I decided to stop waiting.

I would like to ask for your advice on the following:
AFAIK, most film material encoded on HD discs is at 1080fp24. I am seriously contemplating the purchase of a HD-XE1 which only outputs 1080i/p@60 starting from the original fp24 content. If I were to route the video output of the XE1 (1080i60) through a VP50 and output 1080p24 to a compatible display, how much would you say the perceived loss of PQ (time domain considered) would be compared to a situation where the source content could be output @1080fp24 directly to the display ?
TIA,
Dorian
None. You put two 1080 fields back together you get the original 1080 frame.

I went ahead and ordered an HDMI FLEA this week from AVS for my Broadcast sources. There was no way to know when/if the NR feature was going to be implemented so I decided to stop waiting.

I may have to do the same - please report back in if the Flea and the VP50 play well together! I would assume you would go:

Source -> HDMI -> Flea -> HDMI -> VP50 -> HDMI -> Display

Lot's of HDMI handshaking going on...

Source -> HDMI -> Flea -> HDMI -> VP50 -> HDMI -> Display

Lot's of HDMI handshaking going on...

YIKES :eek: :eek: that doesn't look promising. Yes, please share results when you get them.

YIKES that doesn't look promising.

I can say this configuration (albeit with a Mosquito and VP30) has worked fine. This is exactly where the NR device *should* be placed.

Hey, If I can get my VP50 and my Gefen HDMI 4:1 splitter to hand shake with 3 different displays at the same time and with multiple HDMI/DVI sources, others can get it to work.

Other then Audio over HDMI having some issues, handshaking has not been a problem.

I may have to do the same - please report back in if the Flea and the VP50 play well together! I would assume you would go:

Source -> HDMI -> Flea -> HDMI -> VP50 -> HDMI -> Display

Lot's of HDMI handshaking going on...

Actually it wil be
Broadcast Sources-> Monoprice 5x1 switch -> FLEA -> VP50 -> 1x2 Splitter -> Display/Receiver

All HDMi connections.
Hopefully it will work out ok but I guess i won't really know until I receive everything and can hook it up. For now iwthout the Flea and the splitter it is fine. But I'm also sending the HDMi audio out of the VP50 with an optical cable. I'll change that when I get the 1x2 splitter.

About 2 weeks ago I get a new plasma monitor (NEC 50XR6A) that is fantastic. I had noticed that the brightness level of screen would fluctuate while viewing it kind of like the floating blacks that has been reported on some of the Panasonic plasmas. Well, I finally got around to calling NEC customer support and they had never heard of this problem and suggested that I remove the VP50 from my chain and connect my STB (Motorola 3412) directly to the plasma screen. Well I did and the problem went away. I verified this with a HD recorded episode of 24 where the problem is clearly visible and quite distracting. I went back and forth several times just to be sure.

So, it seems that the issue is with the VP50 and not the TV which I guess is a good thing because it's easier to ship back the VP50. Has anyone else seen this issue? If so, is there some kind of setting that will disable it?

I'm just starting to hit my threshold with how many problems I can deal with this unit (HDMI audio dropouts, flashing lines on the top of the screen) and now this. For a scalar that costs as much as very, very good TV, I expect more.

My equipment set up is as follows:
Motorola 3412 -> VP50 via HDMI
Marantz 9600 -> VP50 via HDMI
VP50 -> NEC 50XR6A via HDMI @ 1365x768 (native rate)

Thanks for any and all info.

My equipment set up is as follows:
Motorola 3412 -> VP50 via HDMI
Marantz 9600 -> VP50 via HDMI
VP50 -> NEC 50XR6A via HDMI @ 1365x768 (native rate)
Thanks for any and all info.Have you tried using a standard non pixel mapped connection from the VP50 to your display like 720p or 1080i to see if the problem is still there? I ask this as there are some issues when trying to pixel map 1:1 to the NEC. I imagine you had a standard resolution going into the NEC when you tried a direct connection from your STB.

...I get a new plasma monitor (NEC 50XR6A) that is fantastic. I had noticed that the brightness level of screen would fluctuate while viewing it kind of like the floating blacks that has been reported on some of the Panasonic plasmas...

Neither the VP50 nor any model before it has a control that changes the intensity of the video signal after it's been set. However on reading your post, I did a search on the Panasonic 9th gen plasmas and your NEC display.

One thing that stuck out like a knife, was that they both (this model year) have an automatic "Dynamic Gamma" feature, which is intended to decrease the black level in dark scenes, and raise it in bright scenes. This gives the viewer (and test gear) the impression of better black-level detail reproduction and broad contrast capabilities (but it just ain't so).

Before shipping back the iScan, and saying it's an over-priced piece of junk, I'd recommend ensuring your cool expensive panel (which has a ton of "hidden" processing) doesn't have this really irritating feature turned on.

Display calibration, is supposed to get these values as close to the specification, as possible – but with poor dark color reproduction in plasmas – manufacturers are trying to find new “cute” ways to make you think they have the problem licked. How can you expect to accurately set your black level and white level if the values that are output by the glass don't reflect the input signal - and aren't necessarily the same, ever? White is white and black is black - these are defined in the standards, they aren't "dynamic" - and neither is the defined Gamma curve (and that means your display's output is more likely to be non-standard if "Dynamic Gamma" is on, so you shouldn't expect it to behave like one that is standard/static).

The black level of a plasma is determined by the amount of light the plasma leaks when it’s not trying to drive the pixel (polarizer leakage is why the blacks are typically terrible on an LCD). The white level is determined by the light output when the pixels are driven at their max value. My challenge to the plasma and LCD manufacturers is to test that value with both the sampled black and white on the same test pattern in close proximity (like within a few pixels).

Long live CRTs. :)

Cheers!

-LD :cool:

If they weren't connected then the devices wouldn't handshake would they? If so, then the equipment wouldn't work together.

I'm very curious to see Gary's report on using that cable.

I get the sense that it will work fine for non-HDCP compliant devices, but how many of those are around?
The Monoprice $14 splitter doesn't (and can't) work for HDCP anyway, so if cutting off the EDID pins prevents HDCP handshaking, it wouldn't make a difference in this case. Again, that was just a guess on my part. I don't actually know how it deals with EDID.

What version of HDMi does the VP50 have? The reason I ask is I was trying out going from my PS3 to the VP50 to the receiver and then to the display. It works fine with audio over HDMI with the BD movies and download movies. Even from the HD DVD player at 48khz and 96 Khz. But when I tried an SACD it wouldn't pass any audio. The VP50 kept showing it was receiving a 48Khz pcm signal. Wheh the PS3 goes to my Denon 3806 first for SACD multichannel it shows up as 88.2 Khz PCM. For stereo SACD it shows up as 176.4 Khz.
Is it supposed to be a ble to work with SACD through the VP50 or is that beyond it's capability? Has anyone else been able to hear SACD audio over HDMI by going to the VP50 before the receiver?

The VP50 is considered to be an HDMI v1.1 repeater. Technically the VP50 has HDMI v1.2 receivers on the input and a HDMI v1.1 transmitter on the output.

Josh, welcome back.

I have just installed my new home HT which includes a Sony VPL-VW50 ("Pearl") fed via HDMI from a DVDO VP-50. I am trying to obtain the best possible projected image. However, both of these units contain variable "tweaking" choices, many of which overlap or are redundant. Is there someone reading this thread who can provide me with the specific choices (chroma, hue, sharpness, etc.) which they made for their own similar system (also in which unit the selection was used)? Thanks for any help provided!

Neither the VP50 nor any model before it has a control that changes the intensity of the video signal after it's been set. However on reading your post, I did a search on the Panasonic 9th gen plasmas and your NEC display.

One thing that stuck out like a knife, was that they both (this model year) have an automatic "Dynamic Gamma" feature, which is intended to decrease the black level in dark scenes, and raise it in bright scenes. This gives the viewer (and test gear) the impression of better black-level detail reproduction and broad contrast capabilities (but it just ain't so).

Before shipping back the iScan, and saying it's an over-priced piece of junk, I'd recommend ensuring your cool expensive panel (which has a ton of "hidden" processing) doesn't have this really irritating feature turned on.

Display calibration, is supposed to get these values as close to the specification, as possible – but with poor dark color reproduction in plasmas – manufacturers are trying to find new “cute” ways to make you think they have the problem licked. How can you expect to accurately set your black level and white level if the values that are output by the glass don't reflect the input signal - and aren't necessarily the same, ever? White is white and black is black - these are defined in the standards, they aren't "dynamic" - and neither is the defined Gamma curve (and that means your display's output is more likely to be non-standard if "Dynamic Gamma" is on, so you shouldn't expect it to behave like one that is standard/static).

The black level of a plasma is determined by the amount of light the plasma leaks when it’s not trying to drive the pixel (polarizer leakage is why the blacks are typically terrible on an LCD). The white level is determined by the light output when the pixels are driven at their max value. My challenge to the plasma and LCD manufacturers is to test that value with both the sampled black and white on the same test pattern in close proximity (like within a few pixels).

Long live CRTs. :)

Cheers!

-LD :cool:

I was not stating that the VP50 is an overpriced piece of junk. My frustration stems from the fact that I expect more from a product that costs as much as the VP50 does. In regards to the dynamic gamma, why would this behavior only be visible when driving the display with the VP50 vs. going directly into the plasma with a 1080i signal?

Can anybody help my, I am stuck with the following issues:

1. How do I get native resolution with my Pioneer PDP-435XDE?

2. I have a Denon DVD Player with an SDI output. The quality is
stunning! However I have most movies on my Windows Mediacenter. The
quality of the picture is not very good. Question: How can I get the
deinterlacing to work (right now the option is shaded). How should I
connect the graphics card to get the best possible picture (DVI,VGA). I
want to get a new graphics card soon, any which works good with theVP50
(MSI GeForce NX7600GT Diamond Plus or high-end eVGA e-GeForce 8800GTX?).

many thanx

I too am seeing the video degraded severly with 1080i output with the 1.01 beta firmware (my 1080p JVC only accepts 1080i). I hope a fix comes soon ( I think it will) as the beta gets the MPCM audio rocking, but killed the video (at 1080i).

Thanks in advance for the next release guys!

Wow, Josh from DVDO posted, and I strangely almost feel more patient just knowing that someone at the company is still alive. I mean, I didn't think they'd all died or anything, but the little bit of contact helps, even though it didn't directly relate to my own concerns. Thanks for showing you're still thinking of us, Josh; you can bet we're all still thinking of you. ;)

The VP50 is considered to be an HDMI v1.1 repeater. Technically the VP50 has HDMI v1.2 receivers on the input and a HDMI v1.1 transmitter on the output.
That would eliminate native DSD pass-through then.

Anyone have any idea what the VP50 costs to manufacture? $200?

Anyone have any idea what the VP50 costs to manufacture? $200?
Do you mean after the millions in R&D?

That would eliminate native DSD pass-through then.

My receiver is supposed to be HDMI 1.1 also. The PS3 doesn't send DSD to it when connected directly to my Denon 3806 but it is converted to PCM 176.4 khz stereo or 88.2khz 5.1 pcm before going to the receiver. When the VP50 is put in the chain the receiver does not get the audio and the Vp50 shows 48Khz audio no matter what was playing on the SACD. I was just testing it out last night. I'll try again when my 1x2 splitter arrives for my VP50 output. I'll send one output to the display and one to the receiver and see if that makes a difference.

As soon as I took delivery of my PS3 60G (around the end of Nov) I reported to DVDO (VP-50 v1.01) that there were (HDMI) video (screen dark, weird colors, etc.) and audio issues as the DD audio was not passing to my Citation 5.0 processor for DVD's, BD's AND games. I went back to VP-50 firmware 1.0 which cleared up the video issues with my PS3 and audio issues for for DVD's and BD's but NOT GAMES (TOO WEIRD). Games still only are registering on my Ciation as prologic (Not that you needed to be "shown" that on the gui as Resistance is spectacular in DD). Till a DVDO fix is found I am running PS3 (v1.50) and an optical cable directly to my audio processor for GAMES ONLY but the optical optput of my DVDO is used when watching a movie. currently, the only downside is that I have to switch settings.

Thank goodness I have many inputs on my Citation......

I am really waiting for a final version of 1.01 or a new release. the assured me they are working on it everyday.

Anyone have any idea what the VP50 costs to manufacture? $200?While I don't know the actual unit cost to ABT, I'm very sure it's substantially more than that. I'd be surprised if just the FPGAs used in the VP50 cost as little as $200. As another indicator, consider that normal markups in the sales channels used for the VP50 are typically on the order of 4X to 5X of the manufacturer's cost.

- Dale Adams

I'd be surprised if just the FPGAs used in the VP50 cost as little as $200Some time ago, the (main & biggest) VP50 fpga model number was communicated. Just for fun I checked prices on the website of the supplier. Indeed, at that time, the price for this fpga alone was around $200 (quantities of 1000).

The Monoprice $14 splitter doesn't (and can't) work for HDCP anyway, so if cutting off the EDID pins prevents HDCP handshaking, it wouldn't make a difference in this case. Again, that was just a guess on my part. I don't actually know how it deals with EDID.
I tried using one of these on my system last night and had no luck with it. I was hoping I could split the HDMI output from my HD-A1 and send the video to the VP50 and the audio to my Yamaha HTR-5990 receiver and avoid the HDMI audio issues.

At initial startup everything looked good. I got the HD-A1 startup graphics on my display and the receiver indicated that it detected an HDMI connection. But as soon as the HD DVD disc started to play the player stopped with an HDMI error. Tried several times but it never worked. I also tried it with a Playstation 3, but just got black on the display. So unless other equipment behaves differently I don't think this is a workaround to avoid the HDMI audio problems when passing through the VP50. You will probably need one of the more expensive active splitters.

I have a ConnectGear 1x2 splitter on the way that is HDCP compliant that i ordered for $90 shipped from Provantage. Hopefully I'll get it by tomorrow. It supposedly shipped from a regional warehouse Tuesday but they didn't give me a tracking number for it.

While I don't know the actual unit cost to ABT, I'm very sure it's substantially more than that. I'd be surprised if just the FPGAs used in the VP50 cost as little as $200. As another indicator, consider that normal markups in the sales channels used for the VP50 are typically on the order of 4X to 5X of the manufacturer's cost.

- Dale Adams

I just assumed a major part of the price was R&D and the hardware cost was the small part.

In the old days one could multiply the parts' cost by 5 and be pretty close to MSRP. Today, a better approximation would be 4 imes the parts' cost. But whatever, the MSRP is quite reasonable for what one gets.

Nice to see you back, Josh. We've missed your knowledge and help.

The VP50 is considered to be an HDMI v1.1 repeater. Technically the VP50 has HDMI v1.2 receivers on the input and a HDMI v1.1 transmitter on the output.

Dang Dang Dang Dang!!! I had earlier posted, and firmly believed, that a VP50 with working audio would be the last vp I would ever need. And now, here I am reminded of HDMI - and the fact that I will probably need v1.3 compliance at some point. Rats. :p

I'd gladly pay 200 bucks or so, Josh, if you can just upgrade mine to 1.3. :D

And - if, as some say, you need personal thanks, then Thanks - afaict, the beta firmware has fixed the audio glitches on my system. (It is always harder to prove absence than presence of a problem, but so far, knock wood, the unit is doing the job for me.) Thank-you.

Dang Dang Dang Dang!!! I had earlier posted, and firmly believed, that a VP50 with working audio would be the last vp I would ever need. And now, here I am reminded of HDMI - and the fact that I will probably need v1.3 compliance at some point. Rats. :p And as soon as almost everyone has HDMI v1.3 compatibility Silicon Image will introduce HDMI v1.4 and convince everyone that they just have to have it. That's their business model. They only deal with the link between devices and the chips that implement that link. As soon as (or, ideally, sooner than) other chip companies start integrating that functionality into their own transceivers or more highly integrated chips -- e.g., full blown display controllers/processors -- Silicon Image must introduce the next, latest and greatest new link or go out of business. They have not been successful in the past in performing this high level of integration themselves and producing something much beyond simple transceivers.

Again, that's their business model and I believe they're unlikely to stop doing this, so get used to it. :rolleyes:

- Dale Adams

And as soon as almost everyone has HDMI v1.3 compatibility Silicon Image will introduce HDMI v1.4 and convince everyone that they just have to have it. That's their business model. :rolleyes:

- Dale Adams

YES WE ALL NEED HDMI v1.3 and v1.4 :rolleyes:
- SEE THREAD BELOW.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9506527&&#post9506527

And as soon as almost everyone has HDMI v1.3 compatibility Silicon Image will introduce HDMI v1.4 and convince everyone that they just have to have it. That's their business model. They only deal with the link between devices and the chips that implement that link. As soon as (or, ideally, sooner than) other chip companies start integrating that functionality into their own transceivers or more highly integrated chips -- e.g., full blown display controllers/processors -- Silicon Image must introduce the next, latest and greatest new link or go out of business. They have not been successful in the past in performing this high level of integration themselves and producing something much beyond simple transceivers.

Again, that's their business model and I believe they're unlikely to stop doing this, so get used to it. :rolleyes:

- Dale Adams

Do you beleive the VP60 will be out after the summer?

Do you beleive the VP60 will be out after the summer?What's a VP60?

- Dale Adams

he means the VP50.1 or the VP70

Okay, let me rephrase: What do you think the next high-end video processor from DVDO will be, over and above what's in the VP50?

I have no idea what's being planned, but if I know what the feature set is I could make a guesstimate of how long it might take to develop such a thing. Without having some baseline feature set assumptions, who knows? It could take from 3 weeks to 3 years.

- Dale Adams

Whatever it is I hope they put two HDMI outputs in it. That would benefit alot of people. I also hope they continue their generous upgrade program.

Since the VP50 is mostly FPGAs, I hope they do as much in software as possible before rolling out a VP60. HDMI 1.3 is a cute dream, but the day when HDMI, HDMI audio, and HDCP all work perfectly together across multiple components will be the day after hell thaws back out. Two mirrored HDMI outputs would be nice, but a decent, active splitter is still way cheaper than a new VP. Totally independent HDMI outputs is probably too much to ask in the near future.

My software wish list doesn't really have lots of new features like noise reduction or anything, just bug fixes, tweaks, and minor refinements. Well, I wouldn't mind if they improved the scaling to ring less. That might be a major change if they really overhauled it.

Edit, to be clear: I'm talking about software updates to the VP50. Any new hardware would just distract from the continued VP50 support I expect (much like the VP50 has obviously diverted resources from VP30 support).

I think it would be better to concentrate on a clean and stable running VP-50 than on a new model. The VP-50 is about 4 or 5 months old and still not o.k. So why asking for a VP-xxx? :confused:

For what it's worth, I completely agree with the last 2 posts that getting the VP50 running smoothly should be the priority.

- Dale Adams

it would suck to have the vp30 and the firmaware not 100% and development seemingly stoped for your VP ... not very nice....

it would suck to have the vp30 and the firmaware not 100% and development seemingly stoped for your VP ... not very nice....I agree 100% that the bugs for the VP30 should be ironed out completely. But, in terms of further development, there is only so much you can do with it as it doesn't have the large FPGA(s) that the VP50 has. One of the main reasons that I upgraded to the VP50 was that the design allows much more flexibility for expanded functionality. I only hope that the VP50 remains DVDO's flagship VP for some time and that they WILL be adding additional enhancements to it this year (over and above the promised NR). But FIRST, let's have the current bugs ironed out!

In terms of adding an additional HDMI output port, I think that's unlikely with the current design - it would require a new box and new circuitry. The design of the current box was aimed at giving it a huge amount of flexibility to upgrade its functionality via software by the inclusion of its very large Field Programmable Gate Array chip.

The more interesting point is what is ABT's business model? Where does DVDO fit within that model? The answers to those questions are determinative of what will happen and probably what has happened. How does promptly, if at all, fixing bugs fall within that model, let alone adding features and improving the scaling? I am afraid what we want, or for that matter what Josh in his heart (I suspect but don't know) wants, has little to do with what will happen. Ii suspect, but don't know, the investors in ABT have their objectives which are not coexistent with our desires, and have put in place management to accomplish those objectives.

I, for one will not be purchasing a new model (IE VP60 or the equiv), unless they address the issues that need to be addressed in the VP50 / 30. I purchased the VP50 under the impression that they would have certain issues that were affecting the VP30 fixed from the get go, but months later, we still have them.... :(

The more interesting point is what is ABT's business model? Where does DVDO fit within that model? The answers to those questions are determinative of what will happen and probably what has happened. How does promptly, if at all, fixing bugs fall within that model, let alone adding features and improving the scaling? I am afraid what we want, or for that matter what Josh in his heart (I suspect but don't know) wants, has little to do with what will happen. Ii suspect, but don't know, the investors in ABT have their objectives which are not coexistent with our desires, and have put in place management to accomplish those objectives.

I agree Mark - investors would be much more interested in large volume chip business, rather then niche, low volume scaler business .... so OEM scaler/deinterlacer chips would probably become their first priority ....

I've really grown tired of waiting, and will be seriously looking into the Lumagen Radiance and Crystallio II soon.

I feel a little "boxed in" by this thread, and by the fact that I only have experience with DVDO scalers.

'Cause if what you say is true, that ABT will have to concentrate on being a third party chip manufacturer in the near future because that's the business model that is profitable - wouldn't that then be just as true for the other scaler companies? Or is there a difference because ABT is smaller than the others?

How's business (and customer support) going for the other, competing companies? Are they better/worse (off) than ABT/DVDO?

The other "scaler" companies are not processor chip manufacturers. They use processor chips manufactured by others.

"Concentrate" "in the near future" ? It would appear that the future is now and has been for quite some time.

There is much information on other processor companies in this forum. It really isn't appropriate to discuss them in this thread.

I have a denon 1930 CI DVD player that will output 480i via component video output to my VP 50. The denon DVD player HDMI output will output 1080p, 1080i, 720p and 480p but not 480i to the VP 50. My VP 50 sends signals out at 1080p via HDMI to my Pioneer proFHD1 plasma TV. Am I better off sending the dvd 480i via my component output to the VP 50 so it can do all of the upconverting or sending the signal via the HDMI to the VP 50 so it remains digital? I assume if I sent the dvd signal out via HDMI I should use 480p and let the VP 50 do most of the upconverting.

thanks

I have a denon 1930 CI DVD player that will output 480i via component video output to my VP 50. The denon DVD player HDMI output will output 1080p, 1080i, 720p and 480p but not 480i to the VP 50. My VP 50 sends signals out at 1080p via HDMI to my Pioneer proFHD1 plasma TV. Am I better off sending the dvd 480i via my component output to the VP 50 so it can do all of the upconverting or sending the signal via the HDMI to the VP 50 so it remains digital? I assume if I sent the dvd signal out via HDMI I should use 480p and let the VP 50 do most of the upconverting.First of all, you should decide for yourself which looks best to you in your system. Try different options and see if you notice any significant differences between them. If so, choose the one which you're happiest with.

Secondly, you should at least try is sending the VP50 a 480p signal over HDMI and use the PReP option. (You'll have to install the beta firmware update to do this, though. I don't believe there's a release software version which supports PReP.) This allows the VP50 to re-deinterlace the video signal. In many cases this results in a better-looking image as the VP50's deinterlacer is better than what's in many DVD players.

- Dale Adams

There is much information on other processor companies in this forum. It really isn't appropriate to discuss them in this thread.

Well, it's not like I started this discussion: the reason I asked was that I felt it was a logical continuation of the many posts here stating things to the effect of: "I'm tired of waiting - if something doesn't happen soon, I'll be buying [some other scaler]". So I thought, "OK, but if you do that, will you be better off when it comes to customer support, firmware etc.?" Hence my questions. But I'll let it rest as it would be best to keep that discussion to another thread, I'll agree with you there.

I have a Runco 930 8" CRT projector that is analog only (RGBHV) and wants to see 720p

On the way-
Toshiba HD-AX2 HD DVD player
VP-50

From reading the online manual would this be a good setup for standard and HD DVDs in the AX2?

AX2 - 1080i analog out

VP-50
Input Adjust/Deinterlacing- Auto
Output Setup/Format- 720p-60
Output Setup/Framerate/60Hz- 48Hz Lock or 72Hz Lock

John P. Since this thread was started by Josh at DVDO, I just think a discussion of the merits of alternative brands and models shouldn't appear here. Nothing wrong though :) with praise as well as bitches about the DVDO product or company, how to set it up, etc, Almost anything related to ABT, DVDO, and the VP50.

I have a Runco 930 8" CRT projector that is analog only (RGBHV) and wants to see 720p

On the way-
Toshiba HD-AX2 HD DVD player
VP-50

From reading the online manual would this be a good setup for standard and HD DVDs in the AX2?

AX2 - 1080i analog out

VP-50
Input Adjust/Deinterlacing- Auto
Output Setup/Format- 720p-60
Output Setup/Framerate/60Hz- 48Hz Lock or 72Hz Lock

Gary,

I no longer use my Barco CRT but it also liked the setup you mentioned. And that would be the settings I would've used.

Thanks. All I have had all along is Runco's tripler so I am not used to having options.

Gary, your intial setup looks the goods.

I'm not sure on your particular projectors bandwidth limitations,but try for 72Hz lock if it doesnt cause softening of your picture. You may need to play with the timings, porches etc to make it fit perfectly in your raster.

AFAIK, most film material encoded on HD discs is at 1080fp24. I am seriously contemplating the purchase of a HD-XE1 which only outputs 1080i/p@60 starting from the original fp24 content. If I were to route the video output of the XE1 (1080i60) through a VP50 and output 1080p24 to a compatible display, how much would you say the perceived loss of PQ (time domain considered) would be compared to a situation where the source content could be output @1080fp24 directly to the display ?
Yep, all HD disc material is encoded at 1080p24.

I run 1080i60 into VP50 and output 1080p24, which my display can accept and displays at 72Hz. :)

Similarly there's clever cadence detection in VP50 that can extract p24 signal from p60 one, e.g. if you watch 'Lost' at 720p60 the VP50 can extract the individual frames and output p24.

However, there's a known issue with p24 output on VP50 where top and bottom half of picture become out of sync and are from two different frames.

I am hoping this will be fixed in a future firmware update.

StooMonster

Gary, your intial setup looks the goods.

I'm not sure on your particular projectors bandwidth limitations,but try for 72Hz lock if it doesnt cause softening of your picture. You may need to play with the timings, porches etc to make it fit perfectly in your raster.
Thanks. I said - Output Setup/Format- 720p-60, but now looking at the Presets Formats and Characteristics for Analog Video Output table I see that is for YPbPr Color Space.

Should I be using one of the 1360x768 formats for a RGBHV projector? Or 1365 or 1366?

Gary - just switch to RGB colorspace. No biggy. I'd leave at 720p, but then you can go advanced, if you haven't already, go to framerate, and switch to 72Hz as suggested by many others. Or leave at 60 - imho, 60 will do a better job on video - ie, sports, etc. When watching Nascar at 72, I had a lot of anomaies - switching to 60 cured them immediately.

OTOH, if you're watching film, try 72. You'll need two memory blocks in your pj - one for each refresh rate, and then make two output profiles in the VP. Or, if you're lazy (like me) you can just run 720p/60 and be fine. Probably should at least try a 1080i/72 block tho - many 8" users prefer that. I know it was a lot harder to get 720p to work properly on my 980.

Yep, all HD disc material is encoded at 1080p24.

I run 1080i60 into VP50 and output 1080p24, which my display can accept and displays at 72Hz. :)

Similarly there's clever cadence detection in VP50 that can extract p24 signal from p60 one, e.g. if you watch 'Lost' at 720p60 the VP50 can extract the individual frames and output p24.

However, there's a known issue with p24 output on VP50 where top and bottom half of picture become out of sync and are from two different frames.

I am hoping this will be fixed in a future firmware update.

StooMonster

Thanks for the heads up, I was not aware of the bug - I'll join the list of those waiting for the fix.
It was the extraction of the original 24p frames from the 1080i60 signal that worried me most. I could alternatively let the Tosh output 1080p60 since deinterlacing is not an issue starting from 1080p24.

Thanks for the heads up, I was not aware of the bug - I'll join the list of those waiting for the fix.
It was the extraction of the original 24p frames from the 1080i60 signal that worried me most. I could alternatively let the Tosh output 1080p60 since deinterlacing is not an issue starting from 1080p24.

Also don't be tempted into the Crystalio 2 to avoid this problem. It is even worse and more consistent than the VP50 particularly when the source is letterbox and aspect ratio is being manipulated in a constant image height setup. This has been reported as a known issue by Pixelmagic.

We do need a firmware fix from DVDO.

Before shipping back the iScan, and saying it's an over-priced piece of junk, I'd recommend ensuring your cool expensive panel (which has a ton of "hidden" processing) doesn't have this really irritating feature turned on.

Long live CRTs. :)

Cheers!

-LD :cool:


I agree, to really see the result of vp50, I would need a plasma that will only display the picture that it is given. There fore, I'm looking to pair a vp50 to a minimal function plasma display. but i have a hard time looking up hard facts that states whether the input signal will bypass the panel's processor.

for instance the commercial pioneer panel PDP-507CMX. panel resolution is 1365x768. but in the dvi input compatibility table of the Operating Manual (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_3424/374328764PDP-507CMX_OI.pdf) (p44) it states...

in the dot-to-dot mode,
1360x768 input was rated as:
- "Picture will be enlarged but some fine detail will be hard to see."
but
1280x768 was the ONLY input to get rated as:
- "Optimal picture. Adjustment of picture position, refresh rate, phase etc., may be necessary."


shouldn't 1360x768 be the preferred input since it is closer to the native resolution? I really don't want the double processing -- first vp50 then the internal processor. interestingly enough 1365x768 is not a valid res input. why is 1280x768 preferred?

I'm also checking out the specs on 50ph9uk. although the input supports the panel's NR 1366x768, will it really bypass the internal processing? how can you tell?

can someone please enlighten me on this? I understand this is a plasma question, but most of the posts there seem to be comparing PQ with the internal processors doing the work.

Thanks
Dan

....can someone please enlighten me on this? I understand this is a plasma question, but most of the posts there seem to be comparing PQ with the internal processors doing the work.

Thanks
DanIt's a bit of a sad story with Plasmas I agree - almost all panels can't do NR (Native Resolution addressing). It won't be until we get to 1920 x 1080 native panel resolution that 1:1 NR pixel matching may become more readily available on consumer Plamas. LCD panels generally offer more opportunities to get 1:1 pixel matching and 1920 x 1080p LCD panels from 40in and upwards are beginning to get down to somewhat realistic prices. I don't think that we'll see Plasmas with this resolution becoming available in smaller sizes than 50in though.

It's a bit of a sad story with Plasmas I agree - almost all panels can't do NR (Native Resolution addressing). It won't be until we get to 1920 x 1080 native panel resolution that 1:1 NR pixel matching may become more readily available on consumer Plamas. LCD panels generally offer more opportunities to get 1:1 pixel matching and 1920 x 1080p LCD panels from 40in and upwards are beginning to get down to somewhat realistic prices. I don't think that we'll see Plasmas with this resolution becoming available in smaller sizes than 50in though.


what i'm asking is even if the VP50 output resolution matches the panels' NR resolutions, will that guarantee a 1:1 pixel map?

from specs point of view the vp50 supports the 1365x768 (pioneer's NR). I'm suspecting on the Pioneer that the input slot only supports 1280x768 while the panel itself is 1365x768. this is only speculation. in this instance, even if the resolutions match, you will not get 1:1.

thanks
Dan

....I'm also checking out the specs on 50ph9uk. although the input supports the panel's NR 1366x768, will it really bypass the internal processing? how can you tell?
Thanks
DanIt's very hard to tell from the specs and reassurances by the sales rep or even company technician don't often tell the true story. It's dead easy if you have a VP50/30/20 as you can use the in-built test patterns to tell you in an instant. Just using the first 4 test patterns is all you need to ascertain if the display is doing any processing.

The 2nd and 3rd in particular should only show single width pixel horizontal and vertical lines resp with no banding of any lines and the 4th dot pattern only dots. If you get any banding or colours in the patterns you see, the display is doing some processing. The 1st pattern should fit the whole of your screen EXACTLY. If any of the edges are off the screen, your display is doing some overscanning.

what i'm asking is even if the VP50 output resolution matches the panels' NR resolutions, will that guarantee a 1:1 pixel map?

from specs point of view the vp50 supports the 1365x768 (pioneer's NR). I'm suspecting on the Pioneer that the input slot only supports 1280x768 while the panel itself is 1365x768. this is only speculation. in this instance, even if the resolutions match, you will not get 1:1.

thanks
DanOur posts crossed, and yes, you are right. Just because the VP50 output can be set to exactly match the dot by dot resolution of your display, that is absolutely no guarantee that the display will allow Native Resolution matching and turn off its internal scaling engine(s).

If you possibly can somehow manage it, borrow a VPxx and take it along to the shops where the panel(s) you are interested are displayed. Alternatively, buy a VPxx from DVDO. If you are not happy with the results, you can take it back to DVDO for a refund. At least that's how it used to be. Josh of DVDO, please chime in here if that policy has changed.

Our posts crossed, and yes, you are right. Just because the VP50 output can be set to exactly match the dot by dot resolution of your display, that is absolutely no guarantee that the display will allow Native Resolution matching and turn off its internal scaling engine(s).

If you possibly can somehow manage it, borrow a VPxx and take it along to the shops where the panel(s) you are interested are displayed. Alternatively, buy a VPxx from DVDO. If you are not happy with the results, you can take it back to DVDO for a refund. At least that's how it used to be. Josh of DVDO, please chime in here if that policy has changed.



thanks escon, that's a good suggestion. does anyone has the vp50/vp30 hooked to a 507cmx or a 50ph9uk to confirm this? from the lack of the discussion on this combination, am i making a poor decision?

Dan

what i'm asking is even if the VP50 output resolution matches the panels' NR resolutions, will that guarantee a 1:1 pixel map?

from specs point of view the vp50 supports the 1365x768 (pioneer's NR). I'm suspecting on the Pioneer that the input slot only supports 1280x768 while the panel itself is 1365x768. this is only speculation. in this instance, even if the resolutions match, you will not get 1:1.

thanks
Dan

Dan, only the pioneer commercial range (MXE20 & MXE10) accept 1:1 signals....otherwise your best bet is to try and see what looks best for you ... 720p or 1080i..

the 5000EX (ELite) 50"1080p in the US also accepts 1:1 signals - you need to select 'full pixel' or a similar mode on the menu ....

As phil mentioned above, finding a suitable panel which accepts 1:1 from a scaler/htpc is not easy .... I was looking for about 6 months before settling on a NEC XR5 ..... at that time the pioneer MXE20 wasn't yet released.. and neither was the 5000EX/Elite.... those 3 panels accept 1:1 signals via HDMI .... for sure.

if you are also looking at LCD, the SOny Bravia X series (1080p) also have a 'Full pixel' mode .... 1:1 @ 1080p ...

the older model panasonics had issues accepting 1:1 over the DVI blade (even though technically is supposed to be possible), and no over HDMI ... however its supposed to be ok over component - the problem being is that it limits you with HDMI inputs....

good luck on your hunt.....

I have tried the DVI blade on several Pana G6 and G7 50in commercial models, and it works ok. I could do nothing with either of the HDMI blades, though :(. I ran at home 1366x768@60Hz (only works at 60Hz) pixelmapped from both VP30 and VP50. I don't know if the DVI blade (quite old, issued with 6th gen - TY-42TM6D is the code) works with G9's, but I think (please correct me here if I'm wrong) that it works with G8's.

ABT uses five consecutive fields' worth of video to better determine what is moving subject matter requiring interpolation and what is stationary subject matter requiring weaving (definition of motion adaptiveness). Most other brands use fewer fields which leads to more misjudgments resulting in more scattered combing of moving subjects and more scattered unnecessary blur of stationary subjects. I read the Silicon Optix HQV uses a four field analysis, two from the current frame and two from the prior. What is the fifth field ABT uses? Is it one ahead?

For those who haven't visited in a while , DVDO / Anchor Bay , have a new Web Site that is quite different than the old . A few changes from the old site...

http://www.anchorbaytech.com/

Scott........................... :)

Alternatively, buy a VPxx [direct] from [Anchor Bay]. If you are not happy with the results, you can take it back to [Anchor Bay] for a refund. At least that's how it used to be. Josh of [Anchor Bay], please chime in here if that policy has changed.

This is true.

This is true.


He lives....

For those who haven't visited in a while , DVDO / Anchor Bay , have a new Web Site that is quite different than the old . A few changes from the old site...

http://www.anchorbaytech.com/

Scott........................... :)

I noticed 'Noise Reduction' under the VRS Technology ...... interesting....

I wonder what products this algorithm will end up in. So far, only Algolith has a good solution to this issue (mosquito + BAR).

Did you notice too BTW, that the description given for Precision Video Scaling is exactly the same as that for Precision De-interlacing? A cut and paste gone wrong here methinks. :) . Or perhaps we are awaiting a new set of scaling algoritms? :cool: .

Did you notice too BTW, that the description given for Precision Video Scaling is exactly the same as that for Precision De-interlacing? A cut and paste gone wrong here methinks. :) . Or perhaps we are awaiting a new set of scaling algoritms? :cool: .

Also , if you select B-Stock / Discontinued products , you get the HD+ at full price NOT the reduced B-Stock price . A few more "cut-and-pastes" not quite right :D We know they'll fix it .

Scott....................

Dan, only the pioneer commercial range (MXE20 & MXE10) accept 1:1 signals....otherwise your best bet is to try and see what looks best for you ... 720p or 1080i..

And MXE20 doesn't accept NR at 50Hz, neither does Pana 9UK/EK with DVI (60Hz is ok of course). I went for Pioneer's 507X (similar to 5070HD). Even though it doesn't accept NR, it still has the 1080p24 support.

I have the Vantage-HD, but I'm thinking of jumping to VP50. For reasons like: test patterns, 576p & 1080i output, fanless design and overall quality and design. Before I start changing scalers, I'd like to ask for your opinions.

Currently I'm passing 576i SD signal to Vantage and scaling it to 720p for the Pioneer. This causes another scaling step by pioneer to 768x1365p. Since it is said that Pioneer sports quite good deinterlacing and scaling, do you think I might get better result by sending it 576p or 1080i from VP50?

Other good reasons to switch to VP50?

Thanks!

-Johannes

could it be that the discrete code not work all correct ?
i copied some codes in my pronto and get nothing ? and with some i got other command instead what i want. ?

firmware 1.01 working ?

could it be that the discrete code not work all correct ?
i copied some codes in my pronto and get nothing ? and with some i got other command instead what i want. ?

firmware 1.01 working ?No, as you've discovered. ;) It's still a beta and although some bugs were fixed, like the audio drop-out which has improved that problem for a lot of people (but not for everybody), for others this beta has solved none of their problems and has introduced a couple of new ones.

I have used Barry Gordon's DVDO utility to generate the discrete remote codes for my Philips Pronto. Everything worked fine. I am using FW 1.01.

http://www.the-gordons.net/homepage/DLF_DVDOutility.html

I have the Vantage-HD, but I'm thinking of jumping to VP50. For reasons like: test patterns, 576p & 1080i output, fanless design and overall quality...The VP50 has a fan. It's very quiet, though.

The VP50 has a fan. It's very quiet, though.It's a small internal one that sits right on top of the processor on the PCB and runs at low speed normally. I can only hear mine in the dead of night with my ear cocked up right against the unit.

could it be that the discrete code not work all correct ?
i copied some codes in my pronto and get nothing ? and with some i got other command instead what i want. ?

firmware 1.01 working ?

I can tell you that for me, firmware 1.01 is the only firmware that discretes actually work. I never got them to work with my VP30. VP50 didn't work with version 1.0. However, 1.01 works perfect. :) SJ

I can tell you that for me, firmware 1.01 is the only firmware that discretes actually work. I never got them to work with my VP30. VP50 didn't work with version 1.0. However, 1.01 works perfect. :) SJ

and the beta is also the first and only version of firmware that works with my audio chain, dating back to VP30 1.0. If it doesn't work for you, you can always go back. ;)

No, as you've discovered. ;) It's still a beta and although some bugs were fixed, like the audio drop-out which has improved that problem for a lot of people (but not for everybody), for others this beta has solved none of their problems and has introduced a couple of new ones.

all discrete codes work 100% of the time all the time on the VP50 with the latest Beta, this was something that was fixed and it was fixed well, as I use them everyday

-Gary

an why i have problems with Test pattern on, Test pattern off, Test Pattern ON/OFF Toggle grey ramp, Check board for example ?

they work not or make a differn command ????? i copied them from the pdf file or from the ir tool ???

i miss following function, shifting/move the input picture
and also when a 2.35 picture is present i want to move the picture so the buttom is big black at a 16:9 TV for the subtitels. is this possible ?

It's a small internal one that sits right on top of the processor on the PCB and runs at low speed normally. I can only hear mine in the dead of night with my ear cocked up right against the unit.
I've never heard mine though....

I'm experiencing audio dropouts with the VP50 in my setup. :(

The VP50 has the latest 1.01 beta firmware.

Audio from the cable STB is via digital coax, video is via Component. The other inputs have audio in via the optical inputs. Audio out to the Pre-Pro is via digital optical.

When I watch HD cable, I get a whole lot of audio dropouts (very very noticeable). The other inputs give no trouble.

Could it be that inputing digital audio via coax and outputting via optical is problematic?

It is interesting to note that till just yesterday I had been feeding the cable STB via dvi/hdmi and do not recall noticing any dropouts. I had to move to component since for some odd reason using the DVI output on my STB was causing SDI dropouts on my DVD player's output!

has anyone got a link to the beta firmware download? or can host / send it to me. The new anchorbaytec.com website doesn't work if you try to get the beta.

thanks

I'm experiencing audio dropouts with the VP50 in my setup. :(


When I watch HD cable, I get a whole lot of audio dropouts (very very noticeable). The other inputs give no trouble.

Could it be that inputing digital audio via coax and outputting via optical is problematic?



I have run that way from day one; got the dropouts until I installed the beta. I suppose you could input via toslink, see if that makes a difference. I have all 4 digital inputs full, have always had optical out; have never seen a difference in dropouts with optical vs coax input.

I still get the occasional dropout via cable and hd input - since it doesn't happen with BD or dvd, I blame that on the incoming signal, not the vp.

I'm one of the fortunate that has never had any significant problems with using the coax or optical out with the VP50 with any firmware. But I have noticed, like Flyingvee, occaisional drop outs from cable programming. But I get this even without the vp50 so I figure its the STB.

I have run that way from day one; got the dropouts until I installed the beta. I suppose you could input via toslink, see if that makes a difference. I have all 4 digital inputs full, have always had optical out; have never seen a difference in dropouts with optical vs coax input.

I still get the occasional dropout via cable and hd input - since it doesn't happen with BD or dvd, I blame that on the incoming signal, not the vp.

I only get an occasional audio "hickup" on my VP50 (as one member calls it) when using Sat STBs. On DVDs and HD DVDs I really have not noticed this. I still use optical/coax audio for these. I only use HDMI for video. This is so vastly improved from the audio dropouts I used to get with Version 1.0 and ALL VP30 firmwares. I'm pretty happy with the current version (with no more spouse "what's that" remarks), but if DVDO can also get rid of the hickups.... SJ

While I no longer seem to have the audio drop-outs of before, I do have the menu lag issues with the latest f/w and frequent complete audio loss when changing inputs - from DVD to STB for example. I know the menu problem is VP50 specific and I suspect the audio loss is a combination of the VP50 and HDCP handshake issues with the AVR or other component. Nonetheless, this audio loss is bothersome, requiring a repeat of input changes or occasional reset of the VP50. Put simply, I don't know whether the blame should be laid at DVDO's door or the HDCP people or both. But it remains an issue.

Hopefully soon, a manufacturer like Denon will finalize an AVR product that incorporates a truly good VP and we will at last have what DVDO advertises but has seemingly failed to ever fully deliver (a one-wire video AND audio solution) that doesn't require work-arounds and splitting inputs or outputs in different directions, etc.

I'm feeding my STB digital audio directly to my pre-pro now and the dropouts are completely gone (though I cannot adjust lip-sync if I need to ... but I do not need to!). With audio from the DVD player (SDI video) and also from my media player (DVI video), there are no audio dropouts.

I doubt that in my case it has anything to do with HDCP since I am feeding a component video signal in from the STB (no dvi/hdmi). Furthermore before I got the VP50, I had been using my iScan HD in the same configuration with no audio issues whatsoever.

So maybe its not the VP50 that is completely to blame, but it sure does look like the problem comes up only with the VP50 and the STB in the chain. Change one of them and the problem goes away. In any case since I have a workaround, I am not too concerned!

I bought my vp50 to reduce the complexity of my home system so my recently moved in girlfriend could use it - the previous HTPC was a bit complex for her.
The VP50 is in some ways just as bad - when she surfs cable channels 1 in 6 times the audio drops out altogether, my EAD 8800 processor just shows no input. Switching the 8800 off and back on again fixes things though.
This didnt happen on the last firmware but I did suffer micro drop outs which were as annoying in a different way.
i dont have any issues with the user interface etc but if there was a nother product I could jump on right now that just simply worked - Id be all over it.

Is noise reduction still something that might find its way into a VP50 update?

It is there now. It is right there on their web site -

"Noise Reduction
Video compression is a commonly used technique to squeeze more video content onto a disc, or beam down more channels via satellite, or transmit more channels over a cable. By using video compression content providers can achieve better economies of scale and offer the consumer more video content - e.g. more channels, bonus materials, etc. The problem with nearly all video compression methods is that too much of it causes compression artifacts. These artifacts are often seen by the viewer as ugly ringing around text letters or noise - often called mosquito noise.

To counter this Anchor Bay has developed a proprietary method of selectively removing mosquito noise and other compression induced artifacts. Unlike some methods of noise reduction that often makes the image worse by removing too much detail or causing blurring during motion, VRS Noise Reduction is designed to isolate the most objectionable of artifacts without removing detail or causing motion blur. To do this Anchor Bay had to devise a proprietary method of both isolating and predicting areas in the image where noise is likely to occur. The end result is a highly effective noise reduction method that is impervious to motion, yet, largely maintains the integrity of the detail in the image through our conservative approach in removing video compression artifacts."

It is there now. It is right there on their web site -

"Noise Reduction
Video compression is a commonly used technique to squeeze more video content onto a disc, or beam down more channels via satellite, or transmit more channels over a cable. By using video compression content providers can achieve better economies of scale and offer the consumer more video content - e.g. more channels, bonus materials, etc. The problem with nearly all video compression methods is that too much of it causes compression artifacts. These artifacts are often seen by the viewer as ugly ringing around text letters or noise - often called mosquito noise.

To counter this Anchor Bay has developed a proprietary method of selectively removing mosquito noise and other compression induced artifacts. Unlike some methods of noise reduction that often makes the image worse by removing too much detail or causing blurring during motion, VRS Noise Reduction is designed to isolate the most objectionable of artifacts without removing detail or causing motion blur. To do this Anchor Bay had to devise a proprietary method of both isolating and predicting areas in the image where noise is likely to occur. The end result is a highly effective noise reduction method that is impervious to motion, yet, largely maintains the integrity of the detail in the image through our conservative approach in removing video compression artifacts."


It just needs to make its way down a firmware upgrade ...... I'm really keen to use it with my digital satellite (Foxtel/Sky)... it may improve the PQ further.... the DVDO does a pretty good job already ....

I am not sure that ringing is the same thing as Mosquito noise.

In any event, I do not think that Mosquito noise reduction is presently in the VP50. I think it is in the newest chip developed and marketed by ABT. The ringing inherent in the VP50's scaling will mask Mosquito noise but hiding it by ringing is a poor ass solution. Perhaps someday Mosquito noise reduction will be added to the VP50 via a download. Hopefully ABT's management will put some resources behind doing this in our life times. Putting it in their chip was essential to coming out with a competitive chip. The future is not in stand alone video processors. For them it is in selling chips.

I have tried the DVI blade on several Pana G6 and G7 50in commercial models, and it works ok. I could do nothing with either of the HDMI blades, though :(. I ran at home 1366x768@60Hz (only works at 60Hz) pixelmapped from both VP30 and VP50. I don't know if the DVI blade (quite old, issued with 6th gen - TY-42TM6D is the code) works with G9's, but I think (please correct me here if I'm wrong) that it works with G8's.


You wouldnt have the config for the TY-42TM6D @ 60hz?

I'm having problems getting 1:1 mapping from the VP50 to my gen 6, 50", panny with the DVI card: 1366x768 (option 2) comes closest, but with a 20 pixel random noise vertical bar at the extreme left.

You wouldnt have the config for the TY-42TM6D @ 60hz?

I'm having problems getting 1:1 mapping from the VP50 to my gen 6, 50", panny with the DVI card: 1366x768 (option 2) comes closest, but with a 20 pixel random noise vertical bar at the extreme left.

Have you tried horizontally shifting the output image?
(Output Setup->Format->1366x768(2)->H-Shift->)

Or, have you tried the different sync polarities?
(Output Setup->Sync Type->)

Have you tried horizontally shifting the output image?
(Output Setup->Format->1366x768(2)->H-Shift->)

Or, have you tried the different sync polarities?
(Output Setup->Sync Type->)

Hi Josh,

Do you have any info about the release of a firmware update (after 1.01 beta) for the VP50.
I am particularly interested, as are many others, in a correction for the image instability that occurs intermittently when the output framerate is set to 1080p24.
Will the VP50 be able to accept as input 1080p24 signals from HDDVD and Bluray players?

Otherwise I am pretty happy with the VP50.

You wouldnt have the config for the TY-42TM6D @ 60hz?
I'm having problems getting 1:1 mapping from the VP50 to my gen 6, 50", panny with the DVI card: 1366x768 (option 2) comes closest, but with a 20 pixel random noise vertical bar at the extreme left.

Try shifting the image left from the Panasonic display controls while keeping the chess grid onscreen (or vertical bar grid). Panning from the display control will not impede on the ability to achieve pixelmapping.

I will look at my notes when I get home and give you a few timings to try, but for me option 2 (mentioned by you and Josh) works ok. Have to look and see if there's any pan on the plasma, I used to apply custom timings before v1.08b on the VP30 (the Vsync width was too small on hte 1366x768 signal), but after that option 2 worked fine. When I switched to VP50 I dind't even touch the plasma, just selected (2) and things snapped in. My screen is a TH-50PHW6.

Sync Polarity should be VSync- / HSync- (advanced user mode on).

Hi Josh,

Do you have any info about the release of a firmware update (after 1.01 beta) for the VP50.
I am particularly interested, as are many others, in a correction for the image instability that occurs intermittently when the output framerate is set to 1080p24.
Will the VP50 be able to accept as input 1080p24 signals from HDDVD and Bluray players?

Otherwise I am pretty happy with the VP50.


the current VP50 accepts 1080p/24 just fine, worked great with the Sony S1 player, but 1080p24 is not needed because the VP50 does such a good job on 1080i input, the Sony BR was indistinguishable feeding "direct 24" vs "1080i and the VP50 doing its magic"

-Gary

1080i was good with v1.00 firmware but v1.01 loses half the resolution. A circle has jagged edges with v1.01. It looks like the same problem the VP30 had when it first came out. Although in my setup the problem is with 1080i output. I can't test 1080P output since my display won't take 1080P over HDMI. So for right now with v1.01 I have to output 720P to get a decent picture or go back to v1.00 to be able to output 1080i properly. I decided to just stick with v1.01 for now so hopefully they will correct it with the next firmware. AWith the VP30 the problem was corrected very quickly. But that was in 2005. Things are moving very slowly now with the firmware updates.

the current VP50 accepts 1080p/24 just fine, worked great with the Sony S1 player, but 1080p24 is not needed because the VP50 does such a good job on 1080i input, the Sony BR was indistinguishable feeding "direct 24" vs "1080i and the VP50 doing its magic"

-Gary

Should I anticipate having problems with this? I should have a JVC RS1 soon and was planning on outputting 1080p24.

Should I anticipate having problems with this? I should have a JVC RS1 soon and was planning on outputting 1080p24.


We are talking about two different things here. Gary is talking about a 1080p/24 input to the VP50 is fine (I use it with my sone BD player). You seems to be asking about a 1080p/24 output from the VP50 to a proj. I have no idea if it will output 1080p24 yet. I can only use 1080p50 and 60 on my CRT proj.

I like Aaronwt would love a new firmware that fixes the 1080i because my daily viewing tv is 1080p but will only accept 1080i. I loved the 5.1 pcm of 1.01, but 1.01 killed 1080i ouput and forced me to go back to 1.00 until this is resolved.

PLEASE DVDO please fix the 1080i output. Even if that is the only fix for a 1.02 release.

Thanks!!!

Should I anticipate having problems with this? I should have a JVC RS1 soon and was planning on outputting 1080p24.

The VP50 will output 1080p24 but with a qualifier.

At present it works well most of the time, but on occasions there will be image instability and tearing in the lower one third of the image. This can be corrected by pausing and restarting DVD output. In my system, this might occur about 3-4 times during a movie.

Don't be tempted into a Crystalio II to solve this because it cannot currently output a stable signal at all when trying to achieve the same thing. This has been acknowledged by its makers on the Pixelmagic forum.

We VP50 owners running a CIH setup with Bluray or HDDVD are awaiting a fix for this issue by way of a firmware update from DVDO.

No-one has yet reported on how well the new JVC copes with a 1080p24 input.

I think it is worse that all of the features on the web site are listed as if they are in the product.

Can anyone tell me if you see any problems with this info. from my VP50?

On Satellite:

Input Status

Video Source:HDMI 2
Signal type :1080i-60Hz,RGB
Aspect :16:9 Full Frame

Output Status (Digital)

Resolution :1920x1080p,YCbCr 444
Frame Rate : 59.94Hz (Locked)
Line Rate :67.432KHz
Pixel Rate :148.352MHz
Aspect 16:9 Full Frame

I ask because I am new to this and want to get the best pic possible on my Mits HC5000 on a 106" screen through my VP50.

Thanks

studlygoorite - This is the proper configuration if you are watching an HD channel (except FOX, ABC, or ESPN that broadcast in 720p).
Which HD set top box do you have?
Do you watch any standard definition channels?
Do you have any other sources?
This will help with recommending the optimum settings in your configuration.

I like Aaronwt would love a new firmware that fixes the 1080i because my daily viewing tv is 1080p but will only accept 1080i. I loved the 5.1 pcm of 1.01, but 1.01 killed 1080i ouput and forced me to go back to 1.00 until this is resolved.

PLEASE DVDO please fix the 1080i output. Even if that is the only fix for a 1.02 release.


This is among the bugs being addressed in the next release in addition to erratic menu navigation (that exists in some systems) and the total loss of audio from an HDMI input. Our intention is for the next release to be a production candidate, meaning that there will be extensive testing before this is even released in public beta on our website. Our plan is to have this available in mid to late March. I will be sure to update everyone here as we get closer to this actual release.

The VP50 will output 1080p24 but with a qualifier.

At present it works well most of the time, but on occasions there will be image instability and tearing in the lower one third of the image. This can be corrected by pausing and restarting DVD output. In my system, this might occur about 3-4 times during a movie.

Don't be tempted into a Crystalio II to solve this because it cannot currently output a stable signal at all when trying to achieve the same thing. This has been acknowledged by its makers on the Pixelmagic forum.

We VP50 owners running a CIH setup with Bluray or HDDVD are awaiting a fix for this issue by way of a firmware update from DVDO.

No-one has yet reported on how well the new JVC copes with a 1080p24 input.

Thanks for the info. I'll give it a try when the JVC arrives but if I also experience this tearing 3 - 4 times a movie, I'll scrub it.

Thanks Josh!

I will be waiting excitedly for it.

This is among the bugs being addressed in the next release in addition to erratic menu navigation (that exists in some systems) and the total loss of audio from an HDMI input. Our intention is for the next release to be a production candidate, meaning that there will be extensive testing before this is even released in public beta on our website. Our plan is to have this available in mid to late March. I will be sure to update everyone here as we get closer to this actual release.

Thanks for the update on time frames, I really appreciate it!

I've been holding off on 1.01 thinking an update might be any day, so now I know to go ahead and use it.

Can you tell us if this new release might have the new VRS noise reduction functionality?

Again, thanks for letting us know how far out the next release (whatever it might have in it) will be, it does help us plan our own upgrade strategies!

eric

Can you tell us if this new release might have the new VRS noise reduction functionality?


We would like to make PReP available in a production-ready version before we start rolling new technologies in.

We would like to make PReP available in a production-ready version before we start rolling new technologies in.

Fair enough. Thanks!

eric

studlygoorite - This is the proper configuration if you are watching an HD channel (except FOX, ABC, or ESPN that broadcast in 720p).
Which HD set top box do you have?
Do you watch any standard definition channels?
Do you have any other sources?
This will help with recommending the optimum settings in your configuration.


Yes I watch SD but my Bell Expressvue can only be set on 480p, 720p or 1080i output. My other sources are Dish Net(non HD), Starchoice HD and Xbox 360 with HD DVD drive set to 1080i so as the VP50 can convert to 1080p and a Pioneer DVD recorder for standard DVDs set to 480i.I read about 1:1 pixel mapping and many other things I need to research but thought I would start at the Input and output. For example, my input is 1080i 60 but the output is 1080p 59.94 locked, don't know if 59.94 should be 60 or not, or if it matters?
Thanks for the reply, John.

This is among the bugs being addressed in the next release in addition to erratic menu navigation (that exists in some systems) and the total loss of audio from an HDMI input. Our intention is for the next release to be a production candidate, meaning that there will be extensive testing before this is even released in public beta on our website. Our plan is to have this available in mid to late March. I will be sure to update everyone here as we get closer to this actual release.

Josh
Will you be addressing the 1080p24 output and image instability?
I have contacted DVDO via your recommended feedback channel. I have asked here more than once (very recently).
Still no reply!

Yes I watch SD but my Bell Expressvue can only be set on 480p, 720p or 1080i output. My other sources are Dish Net(non HD), Starchoice HD and Xbox 360 with HD DVD drive set to 1080i so as the VP50 can convert to 1080p and a Pioneer DVD recorder for standard DVDs set to 480i.I read about 1:1 pixel mapping and many other things I need to research but thought I would start at the Input and output. For example, my input is 1080i 60 but the output is 1080p 59.94 locked, don't know if 59.94 should be 60 or not, or if it matters?
Thanks for the reply, John.

In locked mode the output will always match the input freq so no need to worry (60 is just a rounded up 59.94 as it's easier say, when you see 60Hz mentioned on US broadcast/video it is actually 59.94).

You may want to try setting the Bell to 480p and switching on PReP in the VP50 (if you have firmware 1.01) when watching non HD content. If you don't watch it very often then yes for ease of use leave it on 1080i.

We've discussed this at length before but you may also want to try the color output set to RGB (most display panels are driven by RGB so non-RGB signals are converted inside the display, the VP50 may do a better job and in this case your source started as RGB anyway).

Josh
Will you be addressing the 1080p24 output and image instability?
I have contacted DVDO via your recommended feedback channel. I have asked here more than once (very recently).
Still no reply!

Yes would be nice Josh, although 1080p48 is working okay for me on the Pearl many displays don't have this option.

Josh, thanks for posting again at the forum - we do appreciate the communication and feedback.

Regards,

Marcelo

We would like to make PReP available in a production-ready version before we start rolling new technologies in.

Josh,

Could you give us more specifics about the VRS noise reduction and, perhaps, broadly how it compares to the likes of HQV & VXP counterparts?

I'm trying to choose a VP and the main feature, of interest to me, missing from the VP50 is noise reduction.

Are you in a position to assure that this feature will be added to the VP50, at least once the bug fixes are finished?

Thanks

In locked mode the output will always match the input freq so no need to worry (60 is just a rounded up 59.94 as it's easier say, when you see 60Hz mentioned on US broadcast/video it is actually 59.94).

You may want to try setting the Bell to 480p and switching on PReP in the VP50 (if you have firmware 1.01) when watching non HD content. If you don't watch it very often then yes for ease of use leave it on 1080i.

We've discussed this at length before but you may also want to try the color output set to RGB (most display panels are driven by RGB so non-RGB signals are converted inside the display, the VP50 may do a better job and in this case your source started as RGB anyway).


This is all good stuff, thanks. I have yet to upgrade the firmware so I can use PReP but my Starchoice dish can be set on automatic so what ever signal it is getting ( 480i or 1080i only ) is what it will output, I guess this would be the dish for SD as the Bell has more HD channels. The reason I had the output color space set at YCbCr 444 is because my Xbox 360 and the Starchoice show the input color space at YPbPr, I guess because they are component inputs. Thanks very much for the info., I appreciate it.

My next dilemma is the deinterlace setting, specifically the Video and Film Bias modes. Would Video be the satellite dish but non movies, if so should I switch to Film Bias when a movie is on or leave it on Auto, or is Film Bias just for DVDs?
Thanks for your patience.

You should be able to leave it on auto; that said, if you want, you can always switch to Video, if you know you are watching video source material. I do that often, since I watch a lot of sports on my set; that said, the downside is if you forget to switch back to Film for watching movies. I have done that more than once; will watch into a movie, wonder why it doesn't look as good as I would like, and then remember to set the dl to Film.

btw, if your dish is feeding interlaced signal, PreP won't do any good; actually, the option isn't even there, since there is nothing to undo.

You should be able to leave it on auto; that said, if you want, you can always switch to Video, if you know you are watching video source material. I do that often, since I watch a lot of sports on my set; that said, the downside is if you forget to switch back to Film for watching movies. I have done that more than once; will watch into a movie, wonder why it doesn't look as good as I would like, and then remember to set the dl to Film.

btw, if your dish is feeding interlaced signal, PreP won't do any good; actually, the option isn't even there, since there is nothing to undo.


So say on one Satellite channel you watch a hockey game and then after the hockey game on the same channel there is a movie on, is this always Video for the hockey and Film Bias for the movie?

So say on one Satellite channel you watch a hockey game and then after the hockey game on the same channel there is a movie on, is this always Video for the hockey and Film Bias for the movie?

Basically anything shot on film (movies, some series) will be Film Bias and anything shot on video (live events, studios, sport) will be Video.

Personally I just leave things on Auto unless I know that source device is only ever going to do one or the other, i.e. HD-DVD only has film based stuff released so far.

But even on a movie DVD you'll find things like the menus and extras may be done in video.

Also the VP50 remembers this setting per resolution per input so for instance on your auto switching dish if you only ever watch HD movies on it and SD studio/sport then you could change the mode per resolution.

I think all the HDNet HD DVD releases are 1080i video.

Even if you watch say sports, which are always video, comercials often are in film. So auto is usually the best choice. Also most sports in HD are now 720p, so deinterlacing often doesn't even come into play. You will see artifacts in the film commercials portion of 720p broadcasts, but these were introduce not by your measly VP but what the generators used. Eh? Where things go south with the VP is if you scale the 720p to say 1080p and get ringing. Better to just watch it in 720p with a CRT or use some other scaler that doesn't ring if you have a NR 1080p machine.

Even if you watch say sports, which are always video, comercials often are in film. So auto is usually the best choice. Also most sports in HD are now 720p, so deinterlacing often doesn't even come into play. You will see artifacts in the film commercials portion of 720p broadcasts, but these were introduce not by your measly VP but what the generators used. Eh? Where things go south with the VP is if you scale the 720p to say 1080p and get ringing. Better to just watch it in 720p with a CRT or use some other scaler that doesn't ring if you have a NR 1080p machine.

Admittedly, I more of a film buff than a TV guy, but I personally run everything in film bias mode. I feel that sometimes the auto mode is too aggressive in its detection of overlays and crossfades, (eg. "the Star Wars bug"). Film bias mode still seems to detect video modes correctly, it's just a little less aggressive and more likely to just fall back into film mode.

- Collin

More good stuff, thanks everyone for the replies.

So, now I have done the tests to make sure my Mits HC5000 is not trying to scale anything, I have the correct deinterlacing happening and I have my color space worked out. One other thing that I am not sure if I should worry about or not. My 50' Monster HDMI cable running from the VP50 to my Mits, how do I know if it's too long? If it is too long would the signal just not get to the Mits?, or would something else happen like say sparklies or something?

The most common problems with long cable runs are: no picture, snow (because of HDCP issues) and "sparkles" in the image.

The VP50 has a pretty good signal strength on its HDMI output, as far as I can tell. I have to use a signal booster with my computer's output and a long cable run, but the VP50 works fine on the same cables without the booster.

The most common problems with long cable runs are: no picture, snow (because of HDCP issues) and "sparkles" in the image.

Josh

I don't understand why you reply selectively to some issues but never to others. How about some feedback about the 1080p24 issue???

Josh probably did not see your email.

Dont take it personally.

You could also send him an email.

Warren

Josh probably did not see your email.

Dont take it personally.

You could also send him an email.

Warren

I'll try that but I have tried quite a few times already via both here and the beta feedback route.

The most common problems with long cable runs are: no picture, snow (because of HDCP issues) and "sparkles" in the image.


Would these "sparkles" or the snow be across the whole picture or just in certain areas?

Would these "sparkles" or the snow be across the whole picture or just in certain areas?

they can be all over the screen almost looking like noise, they also most of the time end up being one color for example white or green atleast thats how it was the times i have had them. I agree the vp50 seems to be able to drive a good cable length but even then hdmi/dvi over long wires should be handled with care.

Daniel.

Josh

I don't understand why you reply selectively to some issues but never to others. How about some feedback about the 1080p24 issue???

I don't understand that too.
I have sent some emails weeks ago.
I have posted here in the forum.
Never got any response from Josh or a technical competent person regarding my problems or bug reports.

Audio dropouts at DobyDigital and DTS with FW1.01 and how I can reproduceable detect them with my audio processor, player connected via optical interface or RCA.

Problem when changing the horizontal border (increment jumps and freezes then).

Problem with PAL 576i component input; completely crushed blacks.

Problems with noise and chirps over my audio processor when the VP-50 is connected via SPDIF RCA, none if connected via optical SPDIF connection. Another user told me in a German forum, that this could be a defective power supply. Now I am still waiting, since 2 months, for a new power supply.

I asked some questions regarding specific features like underscan etc. I wrote some requests for simple, small but useful features (e.g. displaying a confirmation of the deinterlacing method when changed via discrete code).

The VP-50 SDI is very expensive in Germany (about $5000).
Everybody told me about the exceptional customer support of DVDO. Where is it?

The VP-50 SDI is very expensive in Germany (about $5000).
Everybody told me about the exceptional customer support of DVDO. Where is it?

In Italy we have paid the VP50 with the SDI interface less than 3000 $ included 20% of VAT ( Tax ).

Regards
Marco

Audio dropouts at DobyDigital and DTS with FW1.01 and how I can reproduceable detect them with my audio processor, player connected via optical interface or RCA.?

Why don't we go ahead and try and answer your questions here. I am little bit confused by your comments here because you also state that you are having "noise and chirps" from your audio processor based on the type of connection, but you are also having them based on the type of connection from the source? Is that right?

Problem when changing the horizontal border (increment jumps and freezes then).

Please explain.

Problem with PAL 576i component input; completely crushed blacks.

Have you tried any settings on your DVD player to see if that corrects the issue?

Problems with noise and chirps over my audio processor when the VP-50 is connected via SPDIF RCA, none if connected via optical SPDIF connection. Another user told me in a German forum, that this could be a defective power supply. Now I am still waiting, since 2 months, for a new power supply.

Please see my question above in regards to the type of connection being used between Source and iScan.

I asked some questions regarding specific features like underscan etc. I wrote some requests for simple, small but useful features (e.g. displaying a confirmation of the deinterlacing method when changed via discrete code).

If you have questions about Underscan, I am sure that we can answer them here. While a feature may seem "simple" and "small", I can not stress how much this is not the case when it comes to actual implementation. We do appreciate feature request, but please realize that we can not implement every request.

Josh

I don't understand why you reply selectively to some issues but never to others. How about some feedback about the 1080p24 issue???

CraigN - I have not had an opportunity to look at this issue. I will take a look tomorrow using a Pioneer PRO-FHD1 and once I understand the problem I will better be able to give you (and others) some feedback.

The links for v1.01 are active, again: http://www.anchorbaytech.com/support/software_downloads/vp.php

CraigN - I have not had an opportunity to look at this issue. I will take a look tomorrow using a Pioneer PRO-FHD1 and once I understand the problem I will better be able to give you (and others) some feedback.

OK.
Apart from here in earlier posts you will see that cine4home.de has reported the same issue with intermittent image instability and 1080p24 output. It is German however and you will need babelfish.

Josh,

Again, welcome back. Thanks for standing in front of the firing squad.

Andy

Josh,

Again, welcome back. Thanks for standing in front of the firing squad.

Andy

Ditto here Josh

We are all just trying to improve on this already good product.

Hi Josh!

Thanks for your reply. :)

Sorry, I am a little bit disappointed and annoyed. I explained this weeks ago and repeated it again and again. But if this leads to an clarification process finally it should be o.k.

Chirps and noise:
I have chirps and noise even if there is nothing connected to my VP-50. The chirps and noise is caused by a SPDIF coax electrical connection between the VP-50 and my audio processor (Audionet MAP V2). If I connect the VP-50 via a SPDIF optical (TSOLINK) connection to my audio processor everything is fine. Nothing changes if I connect my DVD player to the VP-50 regardless whether I use an optical or electrical connection. I asked this in a German forum and one owner suggested to change the power supply of the VP-50, he had the same problem. Now I wait since 2 months for a new power supply.

Audio dropouts:
The audio dropouts (fraction of a second, "hickups") occur regardless whether I use an SPDIF coax or an SPDIF optical input at the VP-50 to connect my player or how I connect the VP-50 to my audio processor. The audio hickups (dropouts for a fraction of a second) occur only with DolbyDigital and DTS, with PCM I was not able to detect any dropouts.

Horizontal border:
If you try to enlarge the horizontal border, after some clicks, the enlargement jumps to increments of 50 and over 100 pixels and more and at the end it freezes completeley. You are not able to change anything anymore. You have to select e.g. 16:9 or 4:3 to reset the horizontal border setting. The vertical border works fine, you can change it in a one pixel increment.

PAL 576i YPbPr input to the VP-50 - completely crushed blacks:
Another VP-50 owner confirmed this problem with a complete different DVD player (Linn Unidisc). I would have to raise the brightness of my DVD player to a very high level to resolve IREs below 30, but then I have a very bad black level. With PAL 576i RGBS or PAL 576p YPbPr everything works fine. I am using a brandnew Denon DVD-3930.

Feature requests:
Short confirmation on the screen if you change the deinterlacing method (auto, film bias, video etc.) via discrete remote codes. You never know whether the VP-50 accepted the command.

Independently parameters for the border setting for top, bottom, left and right (like the blanking feature of CRT projectors).

Questions:

Underscan:
How does the underscan feature work to compensate the overscan of the display or projector? Does it degrade the PQ with SD material because of more complex scaling?

Output format/frame rate:
Me and some owners have problems to understand the correct settings or the correct procedure for output format and frame rate. Please, could you explain the procedure to setup different output formats and framerates and how these parameters are assigned to the input signal and how they are stored and restored automatically.

Shifting the picture of a SD input:
My sat receiver produces a slight vertically shifted picture, it is not centered. It is not possible to shift the picture at the input settings e.g. in 4:3 mode, I have to shift the picture at output format by changing the video timing. Is this correct?

Josh, I am looking forward to your reply. :)

Underscan:
How does the underscan feature work to compensate the overscan of the display or projector? Does it degrade the PQ with SD material because of more complex scaling?I can answer this one for you.

Underscan reduces the area of the VP50's output signal into which the source image is scaled. For example, if you're using a 720p output format, underscanning will reduce the area to which the input image is mapped from 1280x720 to something smaller than this (depending on how much underscan you're using). All other timing parameters of the iScan's video output signal stay the same.

If you're converting an SD source to an output resolution much higher than SD, then you shouldn't see any image degradation because of this. The scaling operation is no more 'complex' than what's done with no underscan. However, if your source and display have the same resolution (e.g., 1080i or 1080p into the VP50, and then out to a 1080p display) then there will be some image loss as the source resolution will be slightly downscaled to shrink the image.

- Dale Adams

Very good explanation! Many thanks! :)

Output format/frame rate:
Me and some owners have problems to understand the correct settings or the correct procedure for output format and frame rate. Please, could you explain the procedure to setup different output formats and framerates and how these parameters are assigned to the input signal and how they are stored and restored automatically.If you're not sure which frame rate to use or under which conditions to use locked or unlocked modes, there's a detailed explanation of this in the VP50 FAQ on the ABT website. I wrote this for someone on this forum with a similar question and ABT incorporated it into the FAQ.

Shifting the picture of a SD input:
My sat receiver produces a slight vertically shifted picture, it is not centered. It is not possible to shift the picture at the input settings e.g. in 4:3 mode, I have to shift the picture at output format by changing the video timing. Is this correct?Is the connection between the satellite receiver and the VP50 HDMI? If so, you may be able to use the line offset function to adjust the vertical position. This feature only works for digital inputs, I believe, so it wouldn't help if you have a composite, Y/C, component, or RGBs connection.

Outside of the line offset function (and changing the output format) the only way you can adjust the vertical position is if the image is vertically zoomed to some extent. You might want to do this anyway, to remove noise, garbage, or dead space at one or more sides of the image.

- Dale Adams

A question for Dale.

I read the FAQ's on the VP 50 website (#10 specifically) and am confused. Is it true that if a HDCP signal is sent from my DVD player to the VP 50 via HDMI that I cannot subsequently send the audio from that signal via optical or coaxial audio digital outputs from my VP 50 to my AV receiver for audio processing? If I read the FAQ correctly, it said the audio output from a HDCP signal must only be output via the HDMI output. I thought HDCP restricted analog video and audio outputs but not digital. Am I wrong?

thanks

A question for Dale.

I read the FAQ's on the VP 50 website (#10 specifically) and am confused. Is it true that if a HDCP signal is sent from my DVD player to the VP 50 via HDMI that I cannot subsequently send the audio from that signal via optical or coaxial audio digital outputs from my VP 50 to my AV receiver for audio processing? If I read the FAQ correctly, it said the audio output from a HDCP signal must only be output via the HDMI output. I thought HDCP restricted analog video and audio outputs but not digital. Am I wrong?I have no idea. I had nothing to do with that part of the design, and I don't even have a VP50 to try this with. Perhaps someone else here can answer this for you.

- Dale Adams

I worried about that too but it's not a problem. I get DD & DTS out via coax from D-VHS, HD-DVD and Blu Ray. At this time I'm only using the HDMI connection from D-VHS and BR players, no other cables. No problems getting audio out of the vp50.

Before I got my HDMi receiver I used the optical out on the VP50. I had no problem sending audio from my HDMI sources through the VP50 and ut over optical.

First of all, thanks Josh annd Dale for posting here and for the information provided. I am also awaiting the results of the 1080p24 test (the Pio would be PDP-5000EX in Europe if I get it correctly).

You wouldnt have the config for the TY-42TM6D @ 60hz?
I'm having problems getting 1:1 mapping from the VP50 to my gen 6, 50", panny with the DVI card: 1366x768 (option 2) comes closest, but with a 20 pixel random noise vertical bar at the extreme left.

I managed to find my notes of last summer (I was still playing with the VP30). Here is a set of timings based on reaching ty-42tm6d specified freqs as close as possible at the specified 60Hz (!) input freq

Hshift 307
Hsize 1366
Hfront 9
Hsync 112
Hback 307
Vshift 18
Vsize 768
Vfront 3
Vsync 17
Vback 18

These iyelded 48,359kHz line frequency (vs 48.36 in the blade specs) and 86.758MHz pixel freq (vd 86.75 in the specs) assuming a 60Hz (not 59.94) output framerate. With 59.94 the figures are obviously slightly lower. Sync settings HSync- / VSync-.
I used this before loading 1.08b on the VP30, after that, 1366x768 (2) worked fine assuming just a little horizontal panning applied from the display controls.

Here are some pics of VP50 test signals HDMI-to-DVI to a TH-50PHW6 w TY-42TM6D (sorry for the quality, these were just taken with a telephone close to the panel and are a bit overexposed - the white is really quite more subdued and white/black areas are quite equal, one can clearly distingush the triad cells in a pixel close up). Have to bring a decent camera home.

test screen
http://xs412.xs.to/xs412/07075/t-screen.jpg.xs.jpg (http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs412&d=07075&f=t-screen.jpg)
chess test, upper right panel corner
http://xs412.xs.to/xs412/07075/t-chess.jpg.xs.jpg (http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs412&d=07075&f=t-chess.jpg)
h lines test, upper right panel corner
http://xs412.xs.to/xs412/07075/t-h.jpg.xs.jpg (http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs412&d=07075&f=t-h.jpg)
v lines test, upper right panel corner
http://xs412.xs.to/xs412/07075/t-v.jpg.xs.jpg (http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs412&d=07075&f=t-v.jpg)
Panel zoom and pan controls, only some horizontal pan applied
http://xs412.xs.to/xs412/07075/t-pan.jpg.xs.jpg (http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs412&d=07075&f=t-pan.jpg)

OK.
Apart from here in earlier posts you will see that cine4home.de has reported the same issue with intermittent image instability and 1080p24 output. It is German however and you will need babelfish.

I was able to take a look at the issue reported with 1080p-24 output and we were able to identify the problem. We will need to make some changes in software to provide an optimal solution and I will check to see if we can sneek this change into the next release (planned for mid-March). If you would like a more immediate "solution", what you can do to eliminate the instability in the image is unlock the frame rate to 23.97Hz, from 24Hz.

Chirps and noise:
I have chirps and noise even if there is nothing connected to my VP-50. The chirps and noise is caused by a SPDIF coax electrical connection between the VP-50 and my audio processor (Audionet MAP V2). If I connect the VP-50 via a SPDIF optical (TSOLINK) connection to my audio processor everything is fine. Nothing changes if I connect my DVD player to the VP-50 regardless whether I use an optical or electrical connection. I asked this in a German forum and one owner suggested to change the power supply of the VP-50, he had the same problem. Now I wait since 2 months for a new power supply.

Audio dropouts:
The audio dropouts (fraction of a second, "hickups") occur regardless whether I use an SPDIF coax or an SPDIF optical input at the VP-50 to connect my player or how I connect the VP-50 to my audio processor. The audio hickups (dropouts for a fraction of a second) occur only with DolbyDigital and DTS, with PCM I was not able to detect any dropouts.

Hello Bejoro,

For audio, I think you'll find that the "hickups" are actually still there in a PCM stream (just so breif that you can't hear them) - as Dolby Digital and DTS are compressed within the same packet size as a non-compressed PCM stream's data. It's easier to find a hickup in a PCM stream with a steady sine-wave tone (your ear can pick out glitches in a sine wave very easily). Try a CD with a 440Hz test tone on it to make sure there is not a problem with the PCM data too over that digital link.

You comment on "chirps and noise" - and say that it still happens with nothing attached to the iScan - what happens when you turn the audio input to "off"? when you place the iScan in this state it literally turns off the digital output ports (Optical, Coax, and HDMI). I'd suggest that if you are still getting these errors with the input set to off, then check the back of your iScan by looking at the Toslink output - if it still has a red light insdie - then there is something being transmitted by the iScan, but if not, then there is another issue (not the fault of the iScan). If there is no light in the Toslink output of the iScan you need to determine the answer to this question:

Does the chirp and noise problem happen with a coaxial output or with the toslink output (or both). Since the toslink connection is not an electrical connection between the two devices, if you are still getting chirps and noise - then there is likely something wrong with either your toslink cable or your receiver. If it happens with the coaxial only - there may be a ground loop caused by the cable that causes the receiver's input to mistake EMI as a part of the input signal (a new power supply may make you think you fixed the problem that way - when in actuality it's better to ensure your hardware is all on the same ground circuit/power strip first).

What you are describing here sounds like more that one problem. If you give it to DVDO like this - they will have to reverse engineer your problem to find what's related and what's not, instead of just fixing a specific problem. This is likely what is taking then so long with audio fixes, etc. (everyone says something to the effect of "I get drop-outs", but there's no obvious isolation of the iScan being done by the customer - so they have to figure it out the hard way).

Cheers!

-LD :cool:

I was able to take a look at the issue reported with 1080p-24 output and we were able to identify the problem. We will need to make some changes in software to provide an optimal solution and I will check to see if we can sneek this change into the next release (planned for mid-March). If you would like a more immediate "solution", what you can do to eliminate the instability in the image is unlock the frame rate to 23.97Hz, from 24Hz.


Many thanks for the feedback,
I will try the "unlocking" first and report back in a few days.
Regards,
Craig

Is anyone using the PS3 with 7.1 pcm out to the VP50? I just tried it tonight and at first I thought the VP50 wouldn't take the 7,1 input. I had to switch to another input then switch back for the 7.1 to show up properly. then if I change it on the fly to 5.1 I have to do the same thing with the VP50. It gets stuck on 5.1 or 7.1 and won't change automatically. If I have the PS3 going staring to my Denon 3806 it changes properly but through the VP50. I've had problems with the Monoprice HDCP compliant splitter with noise and it also would only pass the front channels with 7.1. So I'm running my PS3 to the VP50, then the VP50 to my Denon 3806 and the 3806 to my Samsung DLP. I guess I'll just have to remember to change to another input and back on the VP50 to get the proper audio from 7.1 PCM. Hopefully my replacement Connectgear splitter will arrive soon and I'll have better luck with that than the Monoprice splitter.

I was able to take a look at the issue reported with 1080p-24 output and we were able to identify the problem. We will need to make some changes in software to provide an optimal solution and I will check to see if we can sneek this change into the next release (planned for mid-March). If you would like a more immediate "solution", what you can do to eliminate the instability in the image is unlock the frame rate to 23.97Hz, from 24Hz.

Well, I have tried the "more immediate solution" you suggested and it is unsustainable because of repeated dropped frames etc. When I first read the suggestion to unlock the framerate, I was immediately sceptical. Firstly the user manual states that dropped frames will be the result of unlocking and every other time I have tried it, I have had the same result.

Please keep us up to date with progress on the "optimal" solution for this.

If you're not sure which frame rate to use or under which conditions to use locked or unlocked modes, there's a detailed explanation of this in the VP50 FAQ on the ABT website. I wrote this for someone on this forum with a similar question and ABT incorporated it into the FAQ.

Found it, very good! Thanks.

Is the connection between the satellite receiver and the VP50 HDMI? If so, you may be able to use the line offset function to adjust the vertical position. This feature only works for digital inputs, I believe, so it wouldn't help if you have a composite, Y/C, component, or RGBs connection.

Outside of the line offset function (and changing the output format) the only way you can adjust the vertical position is if the image is vertically zoomed to some extent. You might want to do this anyway, to remove noise, garbage, or dead space at one or more sides of the image.

- Dale Adams

Dale, thanks again, understood! My SAT receiver is connected via RGBS to the VP-50. With zoomed SD content, I noticed that it is possible to shift the image. But with 1:1 SD content (e.g. 4:3 or anamorphic 16:9) it is not possible. I thought it might be a feature request to provide this in a future release.

Feature Request:
Please, would it be possible to provide finer steps at Brightness, Contrast, Saturation of 0.1 and at Gamma of 0.01?

Feature Request:
Please, would it be possible to provide finer steps at Brightness, Contrast, Saturation of 0.1 and at Gamma of 0.01?

I would love this also, along with Hue and Sat for each color, to get a perfect color decoder for every device like the Lumagen's ;)

-Gary

Hi everybody,
This thread has gotten humongously long. Since DVDO does not have (fro the moment) an official forum (and this is one more reason to thank Josh@dvdo for keeping up with the struggle here), we might eventually (if more are interested) try to organize a thread to keep together two things - known bugs not yet solved that people can submit as candidates and others can eventually confirm - with bug description and so on (and when it eventually it gets fixed it can be marked as fixed by fw x.xx) and suggestions for new features (such as the ones already made here). We could eventually keep that thread as clean as possible and keep all other discussions here. I think that we have a product that has a lot of extra real estate on the two FPGA's that can be put to good use :) and we already know that DVDO reads this. What do you think ?

Good idea

great idea

i start here :-) anyone can move it or copy it to the new thread.

feature to add in future releases
- Vertical shift of input picture (not only for digital inputs)
- horizontal shift of input picture

bugs that i have with 1.01
- blinking white line, top left side (confirmed by dvdo still in 1.01)
- discrete codes don't work all (confirmed by dvdo still in 1.01)
- when th vp50 starts from autopower on the curtain is to early make a delay

goodolddog,

There was once a VP50 Wishlist thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=728070&highlight=vp50

but after sometime no one was posting there anymore.

feature to add in future releases
- Vertical shift of input picture (not only for digital inputs)
- horizontal shift of input picture


For what application?

bugs that i have with 1.01
when th vp50 starts from autopower on the curtain is to early make a delay

Can you please explain further?

hi josh

i do have some player and or dvd where the picture is not in the center, so if i only use the overscan to get rid of the black bars i loose some picture information on the other side.
i tried it with the output shift, but this is only avaible if i use underscan and then i can shift the picture.

the lcd display is on and waiting for the picture of the vp50
then i start my dvd player (with sdi) the vp50 will turn on automatically the curtian function is not shown or just for microseconds, it would be nice to enter a delay for the startup

so like this
lcd is on
dvd player will start
the vp50 wakes up
delay x seconds
you will see the curtain apear in the screen as in cinemas


Discrete codes do work with 1.01
- no josh i copied them from your side but some codes don't work
i also send a mail to aaron and he confirmed that

for example the test pattern on , test pattern off, and some test pattern show wrong pictures.
i did not try all but some are not going.

For what application?

E.g. my SAT receiver shifts the picture vertically, connected via component or RGBS. I have tried to correct this by shifting the picture via the output format. One problem that's caused by doing this is the border setting. If you use the 21:9 border setting with an anamorphic picture the border cuts some lines from one side of the picture. If it would be possible to shift the input signal the picture would be centered again and the border settings would work.

You need a shifting of the input signal for analog sources which do not deliver a centered picture. If you center the picture in the input stage, all the VP features will work correctly or as intended.

Hello Bejoro,

For audio, I think you'll find that the "hickups" are actually still there in a PCM stream (just so breif that you can't hear them) - as Dolby Digital and DTS are compressed within the same packet size as a non-compressed PCM stream's data. It's easier to find a hickup in a PCM stream with a steady sine-wave tone (your ear can pick out glitches in a sine wave very easily). Try a CD with a 440Hz test tone on it to make sure there is not a problem with the PCM data too over that digital link.

You comment on "chirps and noise" - and say that it still happens with nothing attached to the iScan - what happens when you turn the audio input to "off"? when you place the iScan in this state it literally turns off the digital output ports (Optical, Coax, and HDMI). I'd suggest that if you are still getting these errors with the input set to off, then check the back of your iScan by looking at the Toslink output - if it still has a red light insdie - then there is something being transmitted by the iScan, but if not, then there is another issue (not the fault of the iScan). If there is no light in the Toslink output of the iScan you need to determine the answer to this question:

Does the chirp and noise problem happen with a coaxial output or with the toslink output (or both). Since the toslink connection is not an electrical connection between the two devices, if you are still getting chirps and noise - then there is likely something wrong with either your toslink cable or your receiver. If it happens with the coaxial only - there may be a ground loop caused by the cable that causes the receiver's input to mistake EMI as a part of the input signal (a new power supply may make you think you fixed the problem that way - when in actuality it's better to ensure your hardware is all on the same ground circuit/power strip first).

What you are describing here sounds like more that one problem. If you give it to DVDO like this - they will have to reverse engineer your problem to find what's related and what's not, instead of just fixing a specific problem. This is likely what is taking then so long with audio fixes, etc. (everyone says something to the effect of "I get drop-outs", but there's no obvious isolation of the iScan being done by the customer - so they have to figure it out the hard way).

Cheers!

-LD :cool:

Thanks for your detailed reply but please read my post carefully. I have described the problem very detailed. Some of your questions have been answered already.

My Audionet MAP V2 audio processor dependably detects audio dropouts and displays a short message for 3 seconds. With PCM I have got no audio dropouts (or the audio processor did not detect them) and I am not able not hear them (so that would be o.k. for me). With DD or DTS the audio processor detects the dropouts, even when I am not able to hear them. I have explained this very detailed in some emails to DVDO but never got any feedback. I woulde like to help very much, but if DVDO do not need any further information it is o.k. for me.

I don't know if I missed this earlier or if it hasn't been posted yet, but I see Noise Reduction under VRS Technology on DVDO's website. Does anyone have a timeframe of when this will be incorporated into the VP50 or if it is going to happen at all?

Thanks.

I don't know if I missed this earlier or if it hasn't been posted yet, but I see Noise Reduction under VRS Technology on DVDO's website. Does anyone have a timeframe of when this will be incorporated into the VP50 or if it is going to happen at all?DVDO has not firmly announced plans to incorporate noise reduction into the VP50. I think they have (rightly) prioritized working on improvements to the existing features before they add major new ones.

The DVDO website may be talking about noise reduction in the video processing chips that ABT sells to other manufacturers. It's also quite possible that the website is just misleading.

DVDO has not firmly announced plans to incorporate noise reduction into the VP50. I think they have (rightly) prioritized working on improvements to the existing features before they add major new ones.

The DVDO website may be talking about noise reduction in the video processing chips that ABT sells to other manufacturers. It's also quite possible that the website is just misleading.This product brochure on the ABT site was pointed out to me by someone on the AVForums (UK) board:

http://www.anchorbaytech.com/docs/pdf/DVDO_VP50_bro_HiRes_PP.pdf

In particular, note the VP50 feature set on the second page.

- Dale Adams

It says PReP also. It seems to me they leave themselves open to some exposure claiming features that are not there.

It says PReP also. It seems to me they leave themselves open to some exposure claiming features that are not there.And detail enhancement (by which I don't think they mean scaling that rings) and 1080p input processing.

Uh, it deinterlaces well. It has many features which work as advertised. And with that, I had better shut up now.

And 2 reasons to buy DVDO scaler in this brochure are :

"DVDO is known for World Class Support which is available via phone,
email and even public internet forums."

:eek:

They can thank Dale for the DVDO support on forums :D

and

"Free software updates which incorporate new features are available on
our website."

6 months -> only 1 beta firmware (with less capabilities than stated in the brochure) !

These are 2 reasons to buy something else !

Josh

Would you care to comment on the discussion here and on avforums (UK) about the features described in the VP50 on the AnchorBay website. It clearly lists noise reduction and detail enhancement as features in the VP50. To be exact ...

The iScan VP50 also adds:
• VRS Precision Deinterlacing™ – 10-bit Motion, Edge and Source-Adaptive Deinterlacing of 480i, 576i, and 1080i
• PReP™ – Progressive ReProcessing of 480p, 576p, and 1080p sources
• Noise Reduction
• Detail Enhancement
• 1080p Input Processing
• Progressive Source Input Cadence Detection (480p, 576p, 720p) – Can detect the cadence in a progressive source and provide a frame-locked output
• All Video Processing algorithms are upgradeable via user-installed software

Given your earlier comments about not wanting to add new features until after Prep is released, this list seems, at the very least, wishful thinking. If someone was to buy the VP50 based on this list, I can imagine they would be rather dissapointed. Wouldn't it be more appropriate if the "planned future" features were specifically identified?

And detail enhancement (by which I don't think they mean scaling that rings)

I don't know what you think "detail enhancement" really is. I hate to break it to you, but it's just a fancy name for edge enhancement and even the vaunted Silicon Optix filter adds ringing.

detail enhancement is already included, in the sharpness adjustment I think, I could be wrong

the VP50 defaults to 0 on sharpness, which is just a pinch of a frequency boost and is actually quite pleasant, -1 is actually off, I use 0 most of the time, I would prefer more steps in this, like 1/2's or .5

NR I am very much looking forward to, for SD DVD ;)

-Gary

Detail enhancement does not have to add ringing, nor does it have to affect all edges in the image equally or at all. For instance, the old iScan Ultra had a dual-function sharpening control. One setting would affect only significant edges in the image and would indeed add ringing around edges (or remove it as well). The other setting affected only fine detail in the picture and did not add ringing to edges or behave at all like the current VP50 sharpness control. On the flip side, the iScan Ultra controls functioned only in the horizontal direction while the VP50's sharpening control is two-dimensional.

Now, there are a lot of ways to implement these types of functions. You can see a global type of sharpening in the current VPxx processor - i.e., it affects the entire image and will indeed induce ringing around edges if it's turned up too high. Other implementations can be much more flexible and provide a range of adjustments that affect different aspects of the image in different ways (such as in the iScan Ultra).

I haven't seen the ABT detail enhancement in operation, so I can't tell you everything it does (or doesn't) or how well it works. I think you'll find that it's a lot different than the current VP50 sharpness control, though.

- Dale Adams

It says PReP also. It seems to me they leave themselves open to some exposure claiming features that are not there.

Yeah. ABT has repeatedly been really bad at that. Those of us in the loop know what's included, what's in beta, and what's the future, but the casual customer could be easily duped. They advertised the VP30 for some 6 months, including for several months during pre-order, as having non-linear stretch when it most certainly did not. Of course it got it eventually, but it's not the same thing. ABT is lucky it's not publicly traded. My company is so terrified of Sarbanes-Oxley that we are continually warned about not shipping new features for free no matter how minor they may seem.

- Collin

You make those $1 updates, huh? :)

It still seems they could be at risk if someone wanted to make an issue of it.

You make those $1 updates, huh? :)

It still seems they could be at risk if someone wanted to make an issue of it.

Agreed. SOX is just the accounting side of things and getting trouble with the SEC. False advertising is liability if you're publicly traded or not.

- Collin

Funny :) ... I prefer VP50 sharpness set to -1 :) ... but that is only a personal prefference :).

Is that brochure already in circulation (in print) ? I mean it is not posted very visibly on the DVDO website ...

It's dated 1/29/07, so it hasn't been around for very long at all, may not even have been distributed yet.

Is this brochure in a beta state too :D ?

Hey Josh,
I have had an issue with my VP 50 that I never had with the VP 30. I am running 1080i out to the Mits 65813 RPTV. With the VP30, I would use the underscan to get around 2% overscan all around. My tv has actually been calibrated to get around 4%. With the VP50, 1080i source, and using the HDNet test pattern I have to move underscan up to around 35 to get 10% on the sides and 6% on the top and bottom. When I have the underscan set 0, the overscan for the sides would be around 20%, (I can't tell for sure because the numbers aren't even visible with no underscan), and the top and bottom are around 8%. When I pull up the internal geometry test pattern everything looks ok. When I choose 720p or 480i, everything is ok. I had the VP30 before this and I did not have this problem. I spoke with someone about this when I first received the VP50, back when it first came out, and I was told that it was something that you are aware of and that it was being looked into. I am just a little worried since I haven't seen anyone else talk about this. Is this something that will be fixed soon?

Figured it was already logged somewhere as a bug so I'm running a custom 720P resolution. It was strange because I think when I first started using the VP50, 1080i worked fine and then I did a reset or something like change the output format on the cablebox and from then on the 1080i output on the VP50 was hosed.

It seems to me they leave themselves open to some exposure claiming features that are not there.You know, there is another, more positive way to look at this. It could be taken as confirmation that ABT is definitely planning on (and presumably working on) incorporating these features into the VP50. It seems unlikely that they would include these features in a product brochure if they weren't actually intending to put them in at some point. Also, it does appear that ABT has these technologies actually working as they demonstrated them at CES and list them prominently on their website.

Now, granted, there's been no indication given by ABT when these features might actually appear. And one would hope that they've actually determined that the features were feasible and would fit in the VP50's FPGAs before they went off and put them in a publicly available product line brochure. But this does seem to be a positive confirmation that they are indeed planning on incorporating noise reduction and detail enhancement.

I guess the big questions at this point are how well those featues work and when they might actually be available in the VP50. I'm not sure, though, how anyone here determines that short of actually getting a beta firmware release that incorporates one or both of these feature. Perhaps the best thing to do here, short of actual confirmation or information from ABT, is to let past experience with ABT-provided updates be a guide to expectations.

There's also the issue of misleading potential VP50 customers. I think PeteS's recommendation to ABT is a good one and would serve to avoid any potential confusion:

If someone was to buy the VP50 based on this list, I can imagine they would be rather dissapointed. Wouldn't it be more appropriate if the "planned future" features were specifically identified?
- Dale Adams

...the best thing to do here...is to let past experience with ABT-provided updates be a guide to expectations...There's also the issue of misleading potential VP50 customers. I think PeteS's recommendation to ABT is a good one and would serve to avoid any potential confusion:
Quote:
Originally Posted by peteS
If someone was to buy the VP50 based on this list, I can imagine they would be rather dissapointed. Wouldn't it be more appropriate if the "planned future" features were specifically identified?

I certainly agree with this, especially the part about basing future expectations on past performance. But I might choose another word in place of "confusion" to more aptly describe the marketing.

Hi

Switched my Vantage to VP50 today and hooked it to my system. PQ was excellent and everything seemed good, until I tried to update the firmware with Tera Term (Barry's util didn't find the VP50).

I've tried to upload the firmware (both versions) many times with two different computers (both have serial-serial connection) but with no luck. The transfer always stops at about 950000 bytes, then the VP50 says "Serious error 5 / Please call dealer". First time I chose 57600 baud rate, and it seems that now I cannot use lower speed (when I try 19200 on Tera Term, it only shows some weird characters and gives an error).

Here are the screenshots from Tera Term:

http://www.stencylvania.com/ht/teraterm1.gif

http://www.stencylvania.com/ht/teraterm2.gif

I've called my dealer in Finland (who had no idea what to do) and DVDO (who asked me to leave a voice message), so now I'll try the best tech support on the planet ;) Any hints?

Big thanks!

Edit: I've also disabled all virus programs, internet shields and even wireless.

Hi

Edit: I've also disabled all virus programs, internet shields and even wireless.

At least in my case, that made no difference. If you have a computer with a serial port, you should be able to make the upgrade. Just be sure to go into teraterm, and change every setting as per the directions on the dvdo site. I learned the hard way, Tera Term does not "remember" settings - at least in my case, I had to go in and change to be the way DVDO required on every update, even tho I never changed the computer I was using. Just having one setting the wrong way will yield the results you are showing.

Try that again, and it should work - baud rate shouldn't be critical. Just be sure you aren't doing anything else with the computer at the same time (and I'm sure you aren't.)

For what it's worth, I once got a Serious Error 3 upgrading an iScan HD, and DVDO said it was bricked due to hardware problems and would have to be sent back. Error 5 may be different, of course.

At least in my case, that made no difference. If you have a computer with a serial port, you should be able to make the upgrade. Just be sure to go into teraterm, and change every setting as per the directions on the dvdo site. I learned the hard way, Tera Term does not "remember" settings - at least in my case, I had to go in and change to be the way DVDO required on every update, even tho I never changed the computer I was using. Just having one setting the wrong way will yield the results you are showing.

Try that again, and it should work - baud rate shouldn't be critical. Just be sure you aren't doing anything else with the computer at the same time (and I'm sure you aren't.)

Thanks for the quick answer! I've tried again and again, and checking all settings are correct (you can actually save them, but you have to remember to load), but with similar results: the transfer hangs just before 1mb.

I hope it's not a hardware problem like sidb had.

I'm running Windows XP SP2. I've also unhooked all HDMI-cables.

Thanks for the quick answer! I've tried again and again, and checking all settings are correct (you can actually save them, but you have to remember to load), but with similar results: the transfer hangs just before 1mb.

I hope it's not a hardware problem like sidb had.

I'm running Windows XP SP2. I've also unhooked all HDMI-cables.

This doesn't look to be a Tera Term settings problem - as it loaded 900k before having a problem (you wouln't get this far if it wasn't set up right).

At about 900k, the iScan erases a second EEPROM (like the old HD/HD+ models). Something doesn't sound right with your unit. I'd recommend calling or emailing tech support again (help@dvdo.com if you didn't know).

They should be able to do something for you.

Cheers!

-LD :cool:

...I learned the hard way, Tera Term does not "remember" settings - at least in my case, I had to go in and change to be the way DVDO required on every update, even tho I never changed the computer I was using...

...Try that again, and it should work - baud rate shouldn't be critical...

A note on Tera Term: when Tera Term loads, it recalls an initialization file (TERATERM.INI). This file holds all of the values that configure Tera Term in it's "power-up-state". If you change your Tera Term settings to match the DVDO specified settings, then "Save setup..." and use the >>TERATERM.INI<< file as the destination (over-write the existing file), when Tera Term is opened the next time - your settings will be there. This is user error/inexperience - not a problem with the software. This same file even lets you increase the higest COM port number so that you could use a USB-to-serial adapter on COM-port 16 if you were so inclined! (open the file in notepad and poke around - it won't bite ;) ).


The baud-rate for firmware updates hasn't changed in several models - you need to use 57,600bps or the data will not be transmitted and received properly (increasing the risk of a failed firmware update). DVDO makes this crytal clear in the update instructions online and the troubleshooting section (section number 7 at the bottom) that this is the correct setting (source: http://www.anchorbaytech.com/support/software_downloads/vp.php)




...I tried to update the firmware with Tera Term (Barry's util didn't find the VP50)...

I've found Barry's program to be very useful (althought with the latest version he put on his web page, it doesn't have all of the cool "toys" I liked about the previous versions - I wish I had kept the installers for them...). Another thing I've found about Barry's program is it seems to find iScans better than Tera Term, but if the iScan is in an error mode, it doesn't do as well.

My general experience is, if Barry's program can't find it - it isn't going to work anyway (Thanks Barry for that utility!! :) )

Oh yeah, only one program can use a serial port at a time - so if you have Barry's prgram and Tera Term open, one of them won't see the serial port the other is using.

Cheers!

-LD :cool:

Thanks for the quick answer! I've tried again and again, and checking all settings are correct (you can actually save them, but you have to remember to load), but with similar results: the transfer hangs just before 1mb.

I hope it's not a hardware problem like sidb had.

I'm running Windows XP SP2. I've also unhooked all HDMI-cables.

I had the exact same problem! After a lot of putzing (it was on a weekend) around, I finally opened the unit and removed the SDI card I had installed in it and then held the "reset" button down a bit (the one on the board).
When I tried to update the firmware again, it went through fine -- it did pause a bit around the 900mb mark but continued to completion. I think that it may have been the SDI card in my case.

A note on Tera Term: when Tera Term loads, it recalls an initialization file (TERATERM.INI). This file holds all of the values that configure Tera Term in it's "power-up-state". If you change your Tera Term settings to match the DVDO specified settings, then "Save setup..." and use the >>TERATERM.INI<< file as the destination (over-write the existing file), when Tera Term is opened the next time - your settings will be there.
-LD :cool:

Thanks for the tip - never saw that option. Will be sure to save when production firmware is released. (note - I said when, not if. ;) ) But I am pretty sure I have done the update at a lower baud rate - just because I ran into a halt when doing it at 57,600, and had to start over. Forget what I had to do, but mine stayed locked for several go rounds. Eventually unplugged the VP, rebooted Windows, reloaded settings, and it worked. Scared the crap out of me for half an hour tho.

Thanks to everyone for the help! I just got this answer from tech support:

"Thank you for taking time to send us your e-mail. This is a hardware issue that would need to be resolved with a new unit. Please contact our Finland distributor as they handle all service requests for the Finland area. Please let me know if you have any issues."

I don't have the SDI board so I'll stop trying to solve this and will return the unit to my dealer.

I really appreciate the quick answer from the support. Although I'm not sure if the support guys were "currently having several calls" every time I tried to call :rolleyes:

Josh,

We love you, man, don't worry...

About the product brochure, I think Dale said all there is to say. The fact that a feature is on a brochure means they intend to implement the feature.

I think the VP50 is a great product even without this feature, so that addition will just make it that much better, I hope.

Software (and in this case FPGA) development is quite complex. Different companies have different approaches. Some companies release the product and add features afterwards, in order to prevent market share loss. Some mark the product beta and add the features as they go. I don't think there's anything wrong with either approach as long as the product continues to evolve.

Josh,

We love you, man, don't worry...

About the product brochure, I think Dale said all there is to say. The fact that a feature is on a brochure means they intend to implement the feature.

I think the VP50 is a great product even without this feature, so that addition will just make it that much better, I hope.



Hi Ofer

I likewise think the VP50 is a great product - I'm really happy with mine with the current beta of 1.01 (bar a problem with HD input being output at NR to an SD screen, which I'm hoping will be fixed in the next firmware). I also think it's great to have features like NR, if not actually confirmed, at the least made more likely. My point is simply that they should update the brochure to show which features are current vs. which ones are planned (a little * next to the planned ones with an explanation at the bottom is all it needs).

peteS

Two things re my DVDO utility program:

All of the orginal features are still there. There is an ini option "for Beginners or non Techie individulas which presents a very simple interface and removes almost all of the "interesting features". The option is called user level, and 0 is advanced while 1 is beginner or "make it simple". I did this at the request of DVDO who wanted the easy simple GUI for those who just wanted to use the program for firmware loads. The ini file is fully documented.

If there are features that used to be there that are "missing" Please let me know as that was not the intent!!


I have just posted the version that handles more complex discrete IR. It is in the "Upgrade download only at this time. Nothing in the documentation changes as there are tips and help when generating the new IR patterns. Anything that the VP50 can do via discrete IR the program should now generate the patterns for. In effect the only thing it won't handle are RS232 commands that send a reply (for obvious reasons) I have asked DVDO to double check the discrete IR and make sure I got it right. Some of the codes have multiple digit values and that is new in the VP 50 (e.g. more presets).

The program is completely driven by the ini file. If you are daring you can play with the ini file (nothing will get destroyed)., but keep a copy of the original ini file) For example if you know where the iscan is you can set the port number and this is where it will look (better be there). Same for baud rate.

feedback appreciated

Barry, can you post a link ? TIA

Sorry,

www.the-gordons.net

Seek and ye shall find, but to be helpful, bottom of home page has downloads link follow it and eventually you see all of my "stuff". If ever asked for a userid or password use guest for both

...All of the orginal features are still there. There is an ini option "for Beginners or non Techie individulas which presents a very simple interface and removes almost all of the "interesting features"...

...I did this at the request of DVDO who wanted the easy simple GUI for those who just wanted to use the program for firmware loads...

...If there are features that used to be there that are "missing" Please let me know as that was not the intent!!...

...The program is completely driven by the ini file. If you are daring you can play with the ini file (nothing will get destroyed)., but keep a copy of the original ini file)...


:eek: - Ahhh!! That makes sense. I like how the program can be modified by the user with the "ini" file (just like Tera Term can). I think this is cause enough to get rid of Tera Term (except for its macro capabilites...)

-LD :cool:

Hi Ofer......My point is simply that they should update the brochure to show which features are current vs. which ones are planned (a little * next to the planned ones with an explanation at the bottom is all it needs).

peteSFWIW, PMS are doing the same with their flagship product, the 3800 CII. Much of the Media Player functionality has still not been implemented - I think it's nearly a year since the product was put on the market. There is no mention of it being introduced at a later stage on the brochure/info I have.

@ABT/DVDO

Now, after more than 2 months waiting for the exchange power supply for my VP50 from the German distributor, I got a simple $15 wall power supply. It is not the original power supply that came with my VP50. Of course I would have been able to purchase such a power supply in the next electronic shop around the corner. That's real quality-conscious customer support of the German distributor for a $5000 (RP) product.

Which performance parameters (sec. voltage, current, power rating) must a power supply fulfill which is perfect (oversized) for the VP-50?

@ABT/DVDO

Now, after more than 2 months waiting for the exchange power supply for my VP50 from the German distributor, I got a simple $15 wall power supply. It is not the original power supply that came with my VP50. Of course I would have been able to purchase such a power supply in the next electronic shop around the corner. That's real quality-conscious customer support of the German distributor for a $5000 (RP) product.

Which performance parameters (sec. voltage, current, power rating) must a power supply fulfill which is perfect (oversized) for the VP-50?

Voltage should be equal to the original.
Current/Wattage should be equal or higher then the original.

But be very carefull that it can actually output what it says on the label, there are a lot of not very good AC/DC power supplies.

Best thing to do is report your issue getting the replacement direct to DVDO, they may send you one direct.

@ABT/DVDO

Now, after more than 2 months waiting for the exchange power supply for my VP50 from the German distributor, I got a simple $15 wall power supply. It is not the original power supply that came with my VP50. Of course I would have been able to purchase such a power supply in the next electronic shop around the corner. That's real quality-conscious customer support of the German distributor for a $5000 (RP) product.

Which performance parameters (sec. voltage, current, power rating) must a power supply fulfill which is perfect (oversized) for the VP-50?

write this to aaron@dvdo.com and blame for the bad support of the german distro. i think they will send you a powersupply with in 3-4 days out of the us and it will reach you quite soon.

same with the rs232 to usb converter german distro. will not send it dvdo US will send it faster.

Thanks! I have reported this to Aron already.

i tried today again the discrete codes for the test pattern on and off and the codes from barry gordon tool is not working and the codes from the website of dvdo is also not working.

is this now a bug in 1.01 or am i an idiot :confused:

I have used the discrete codes from Barry's DVDO utility for my Pronto 960 and everything works fine.

If I buy a VP50 today, will it ship with the latest firmware? I hatehatehate that serial port firmware update on my VP30. It was a major pain for me to update.

malichai - ask your DVDO salesman - he is prolly the only one who'd know. Tho I doubt they would ship a product with beta software...

Speaking of which - Josh, now that you've released the VP30 update, are we getting noticeably closer to the production version of VP50 firmware? Just curious - so far, knock wood, beta is working for me. Thanks.

Does the VP50 handle 1080p24 input (BluRay/HD-DVD), vertical stretch the image, then output to 1080p24?

If I buy a VP50 today, will it ship with the latest firmware? I hatehatehate that serial port firmware update on my VP30. It was a major pain for me to update.

Nope! I took mine in for an exchange and it still had the v 1.0 on it. The new one is still beta so it is not official yet.

Speaking of which - Josh, now that you've released the VP30 update, are we getting noticeably closer to the production version of VP50 firmware? Just curious - so far, knock wood, beta is working for me. Thanks.


I hope so. I want to buy a scaler soon and the VP50 seems like the one that fits all of my needs, but I don't want to buy one unless the various problems reported in this thread have been fixed :(

I was able to take a look at the issue reported with 1080p-24 output and we were able to identify the problem. We will need to make some changes in software to provide an optimal solution and I will check to see if we can sneek this change into the next release (planned for mid-March). If you would like a more immediate "solution", what you can do to eliminate the instability in the image is unlock the frame rate to 23.97Hz, from 24Hz.
Josh, good news on firmware update.

Thanks for outlining a workaround for the 1080p24 output issue, I'll be trying it out on my 1080p 50-inch plasma later. :)

StooMonster

I have used the discrete codes from Barry's DVDO utility for my Pronto 960 and everything works fine.

did you take the function
Test pattern ON
and
test pattern off

????

i tried them and they do not work on my 990 !! ?

could you post the working pcf or ccf file ?

did you take the function
Test pattern ON
and
test pattern off

????

i tried them and they do not work on my 990 !! ?

could you post the working pcf or ccf file ?

As an attachment an excerpt from my original PCF file. I am using a Star Trek design so I have deleted everything that's not important for you.

thanxs bejoro

but you are not using the discrete test pattern on and off codes you only hat the on/off toggle code !!! this one worked but not the others !

thanxs bejoro

but you are not using the discrete test pattern on and off codes you only hat the on/off toggle code !!! this one worked but not the others !

Now I understand. :) Sorry for the misunderstanding. Right, I have not tested these codes with my Pronto.

Can I/should I pull my ABT102 card from my VP30 for use in my new VP50?

Can I/should I pull my ABT102 card from my VP30 for use in my new VP50?


dont need to, its built in.... :D (sorta, but its not needed)

Can I/should I pull my ABT102 card from my VP30 for use in my new VP50?

if you have one, you can and should move the SDI card from the 30 to the 50; otherwise, as Jon said - no place to even put the 102 in a 50.

did you take the function
Test pattern ON
and
test pattern off

????

i tried them and they do not work on my 990 !! ?

could you post the working pcf or ccf file ?

these don't work in the latest beta, that is your problem ;)

-Gary

I was wondering if someone on this forum could help me out. I have my VP50 hooked into my reciever. When I hook my PS3 into the VP50 via HDMI, the picture is great, but thier is a loud, continious high pitched sound that comes out of my speakers when the PS3 is on. Someone on this forum wrote about this problem with thier HD DVD player


They wrote: " I picked up my VP50 yesterday from the Campbell office. I didn't have much time to check it out but did try it with my Toshiba HD-A1. I still cannot pass 5.1 channel PCM through the VP50 to my Yamaha receiver over HDMI. Same problem as the VP30, there is a continuous loud high pitched tone overlaid on the audio which is much louder than the soundtrack. I had some hope, but didn't really expect it would be different. If DVDO knew how to fix the problem they probably would have fixed it on the VP30 by now. Just thought I would report it to keep it on the radar."(END)

This seems to be the same problem I am having. Can someone tell me how to fix this issue, so I can continue to use my PS3 with the VP50

I was wondering if someone on this forum could help me out. I have my VP50 hooked into my reciever. When I hook my PS3 into the VP50 via HDMI, the picture is great, but thier is a loud, continious high pitched sound that comes out of my speakers when the PS3 is on. Someone on this forum wrote about this problem with thier HD DVD player

This seems to be the same problem I am having. Can someone tell me how to fix this issue, so I can continue to use my PS3 with the VP50
I don't get a high pitched sound, instead I drop the center channel completely, maybe other channels too. I hear sound out of both front satellites, but not even a whisper out of the center. I've not fiddled with firmware yet. I'll keep searching for an answer in this forum, but figured I post since it's similar in nature.

Just got the VP50 yesterday. So far I like what I see. I'm not yet able to get rid of the cable-tv track noise at the top yet. The overscan adjustment does nothing to push the flashing line of white noise out of the way. My display is the 1080p Pani TH-65PF9UK. It's the 1:1 mode that exposes the flashing white band at the top.

Ryan

i've been using a VP50 for the last two weeks with serious problems of overheating. The processor keeps freezing and i've to wait for several hrs before i'm able to use this again.

I was wondering if someone on this forum could help me out. I have my VP50 hooked into my reciever. When I hook my PS3 into the VP50 via HDMI, the picture is great, but thier is a loud, continious high pitched sound that comes out of my speakers when the PS3 is on. Someone on this forum wrote about this problem with thier HD DVD player


This seems to be the same problem I am having. Can someone tell me how to fix this issue, so I can continue to use my PS3 with the VP50

I have a similar problem with my HD-A1. I frequently will only get 2 channels. I'm told that if you change inputs on the VP the problem may resolve. I believe PCM is only passed with the beta firmware, though.