Just turned on my system and VP50 came up with a the "SERIOUS ERROR 12" message. I did a hard reset with the menu and exit buttons but it boots back up with the message after running all it's checks.
Red LED is on and display remains on with or without any cables.
Version 1.01 is installed, apparently by dealer.

Is there some other way to get this thing back up and running?


bigbro

Did you do a hard reset after you disconnected the cables?

What devices do you have connected on the HDMI inputs?

Did you do a hard reset after you disconnected the cables?

What devices do you have connected on the HDMI inputs?


I did a hard reset with all cables connected then without any cables.

The only thing thats been connected via HDMI has been the sat box, which is now connected directly to Fujitsu 55" monitor and is working fine.

Thanks for the fast response.

bigbro

I get a "Serious Error 12" from time-to-time (I'm on SW V1.0). But when I see it, it is usually after switching inputs or when shutting things off. And the blue light stays on for me.

I usually unplug the power from the back of the unit and wait a while, usually 20 minutes at least. Then I plug it back in and everything is fine. And my settings are still remembered by the unit.

Don't know why this works but someone here suggested doing this for something else and it has always worked for me.

I also find that I get the error far less often if I put the VP50 in standby mode when done viewing things as opposed to leaving it on all the time.

When I first reported this to DVDO, Aaron there suggested I return the unit to him for testing and inspection, which, I've not done yet (I was enjoying the improved picture so much). Keep wondering if I should since I've seen this error about 8-10 times since last November. The picture seems fine but I'm beginning to wonder--either I'm getting used to the improved picture or things seem a little degraded lately on standard HD cable (though with Comcast . . . )

Best.

- Gerry

is it possible to program the pronto with an overscan decrease and increase buttons ?

to alow during wathing the movie more or less overscan ?

what is with the new software ?

How do you have your 360 connected to the VP50? A xbox360 can only output 1080p over VGA and the VP50 can not accept this. SJ

Is this solved with the "new" xbox 360 Elite that has an HDMI out?

Should be as the VP50 can do about anything if you feed in a digital signal... SJ

Is this solved with the "new" xbox 360 Elite that has an HDMI out?

I would think the 360 with HDMI would do that (1080p)

just feed the VP50 1080i from the new Xbox and enjoy, heck I might even buy one :D

-Gary

heck I might even buy one :D
:eek: Gary, don't even say that in jest! :eek:

Hi Johannes and all,

I have similar problem trying to get my new Toshiba XA1 working with VP50 (HDMI input 1 and v1.01 firmware) and a Sanyo 720p projector, all connected via good HDMI cables. I think I've similar HDCP issue I can't solve.

i) With the VP50 Input Menu/ Adjust/ HDMI Config./ HDCP/on:
With the Toshiba XA1 player on, I see the setup menu for XA1 for few seconds but the VP50's light blinks and turns to blue and I see a black curtain closing from left and right of the screen and then get a black screen, with the VP50's blue LED keep blinking. Put in a HDDVD disc and I still see a black screen. I press the "curtain" button on the remote and still see the black screen.

But I can still pull up the VP50 menus when the curtains are closed and the screen is black on HDMI inputs.

ii) With the VP50 Input Menu/ Adjust/ HDMI Config./ HDCP/off:
Now I can I see the setup menu for XA1, and everything seems normal while setting up the XA1 setup menu. Put in a HDDVD disc and I see the picture from the playing HDVDV for few seconds, but then the XAI stop playing and show "HDMI error" at the XA1's front panel display. But I can still pull up the VP50 menus.

I repeat the above setting a few times and the same thing is repeating. With either way i am not able to see the picture from the XA1. :confused:

I would appreciate if any experiece guy (like Gary) with Toshiba XA1->HDMI-> VP50 could enlighten me how to solve this issue?

Thank you very much.

I'm trying to get Toshiba XE1 (similar to US model XA2) working with VP50 (v1.01 firmware) and Pioneer PDP-507XA (~5070HD), all connected via good HDMI cables. I think I've run into HDCP issue I can't solve. When I turn the player on, I see the picture for few seconds but the VP50's light blinks and turns to blue and I get a black screen. I can't even open VP50's or Pioneer's menu. I've tried to turn all three units on and off in different combinations but nothing seems to help.

Everything works fine when the player is directly connected to the plasma display, so this has to do with VP50 (probably). The PQ is really good with 1080i60 output but I'm sure it'd be even better if I could convert it to 1080p24 with VP50 before sending it to Pio.

Any clues what to do?

Thanks!

-Johannes

Seasea what's the model of your PJ and have you checked that on your VP50 output settings HDCP is definately set to ON?

Can you connect the XA1 direct to the PJ and test that?

Ailean, thank you to your response. You mean we must set the HDCP between the VP50 and display ON too?

Yes, I remember I did once set the VP50 output settings HDCP to ON, but still have the problem....let me try connecting the XA1 direct to the PJ and test again. The display is a Sanyo Z3.

Seasea what's the model of your PJ and have you checked that on your VP50 output settings HDCP is definately set to ON?

Can you connect the XA1 direct to the PJ and test that?

Hi Johannes and all,

I have similar problem trying to get my new Toshiba XA1 working with VP50 (HDMI input 1 and v1.01 firmware) and a Sanyo 720p projector, all connected via good HDMI cables. I think I've similar HDCP issue I can't solve.

I was once able to put the signal through VP50 (v1.01) with XE1 (v1.3) outputting 1080i60 and VP50 with 60Hz set to 24Hz lock (from refresh rate menu) and 1080p24 output (from format menu). Although the playback was quite jerky. But now when I try it again with same settings, I just get a green screen... (this might be some different problem, to do with colourspaces or something)

So, when is the new update coming? ;)

So, when is the new update coming? ;)It came out yesterday.

Today, of course, is April 2. Sorry; I couldn't resist. :)

An advantage of the VP50 over the previous generation stated in his brochure is that most part of the algorithms can be update by a firmware upgrade.

But nowhere it is writen there will be any firmware upgrade:D

Richard.

An advantage of the VP50 over the previous generation stated in his brochure is that most part of the algorithms can be update by a firmware upgrade.

But nowhere it is writen there will be any firmware upgrade:D

Richard.

Don't forget that the DVDO calendar has at least 46 days per month, just about enough time to step on a few more bugs in 1.03. :rolleyes:

I had the same issues with my X1 / VP50 until I updated the firmware on the X1. Which verision are you running now?

I need some help.
I'm trying to find the discrete IR codes for my ProntoPro so I can switch my aspect ratio in the VP50 ( latest firmware) from 1.78 to 2.35.
I've tried Barry Gordon's tool but the listed codes freeze the Pronto Edit emulator and when I put them in the Pronto the discrete codes will not do anything.
Any help appreciated.

Have you downloaded the latest version of the Tool from my website? I had to rewrite a lot of the code generation for the VP50 as they enhanced it.

One of the issues is that the The "Discrete Codes" are really a very clever emulation of the RS232 codes. This implies that eventually anything that you can command through the RS232 interface you will be able to command via IR. Naturally anything that "Reads" something from the VP50 will not work as the IR model is unidirectional.

The bigger issue is that the IR protocol in use for the discrete (RS232 emulation) codes is not an industry standard. The IR codes for the Remote are standard NEC protocol which is perhaps the most widely used IR protocol out there. This implies that some universal remotes which are of the algorithmic type (enter a code number for your component) and not of the learning type will not be able to handle the discrete IR codes for the VP50.

The Pronto should be able to via its cut and paste. I have done so with the Pronto PRO and the ProntoEdit for the Pronto PRO, but to be precisely correct I have not tried it since I made the last round of changes. Maybe I better do that!

There is only one tool, the DVDO utility. The code generator is no longer a separate tool. It is possible to configure the utility so that it just displays the code generator and does nothing else, but that is your choice.

Let me know how you make out, and if unsuccessful I will work with you to resolve any problems/issues.

Talk about quick response wow:), thank you Barry.

Yes I did download and try your latest rendering, slick !!

I've been trying to figue out what the hech I am doing wrong but no success. If I could somehow just get the VP50/Pronto Ir discrete codes for 1.78, 1.85 and 2.35 I'm done, that's all I need to finish my Pronto/VP50 programing.

THANK YOU Barry.

Okay, I will get some time probably on Wednesday or Thursday to look at it in detail. I will load a pronto pro and see what is going on.

The main problem is that I have been waiting for DVDO to verify the codes, but they have been a bit busy and do not seem to be interested any longer in efforts of third parties to provide any sort of utilities for their product line. No problem to me. It just means I will have to check it out myself and let them know if I see any problems.

Before Barry goes to more grief and hassel just for my account isn't there a bunch of guys here that have succesfully used his IR generator, especially the "discrete" portion for their Pronto's ?

Gary or some of you other wizzards, where am I screwing up the IR discrete code process ?

Jimmy, Please let me know exctly which commands are giving you a problem. I am assuming it is the Aspect ratio setting commands for the aspect ratios you specified.

In my world I never change the aspect ratios. It is set for all inputs at 16:9 (1.78:1). If I am watching a SD TV broadcast I want the side bars and not the distorted picture, although it is very very seldom I watch a SD picture. I get all of the networks, sports and premiums in HD, either 1080i or 720p and let the scalar do the lifting. If I am watching a DVD framed at 2.35:1 I live with the letterboxing. Some day I might look at CIH

Hi mdrew, I am having the original firmware tha comes with the XA1, that is I have not updated the firmware.

Do you encounter any further problem on your X1 / VP50 after updated the firmware on the X1?


I had the same issues with my X1 / VP50 until I updated the firmware on the X1. Which verision are you running now?

My world is a little different Barry :)you really should look into a Constant Height setup for yourself, don't think you'll go back .
I need/want.. would like to charge Aspect Ratios with one tap of the Pronto for each AR. I have an CH setup /2.35 screen .

Anyway, exactly what I'm doing with your IR generator. I choose the "Discrete" pull down and then click on "Active AR" where the three Ir codes I would like are the list and are the ones listed above i.e. 1.78, 1.85 and 2.35.

I fooled with it a little more today. 1.78 seems to work OK in the Pronto Pro remote and it controls the VP50 fine but it continues freezing Pronto Edit's "simulator. I can live with that problem :).
The other two AR's do nothing in the Pronto and will also freeze Edit's simulator.

Is there some reason you can not build a Pronto macro learning the menu commands?

Is there some reason you can not build a Pronto macro learning the menu commands?
Your correct Gary, that is possible and also a bit tricky. An micro could be written but the macro would have to know where in the list of AR's the VP was last programed to, to move where you want to go.

Hi mdrew, I am having the original firmware tha comes with the XA1, that is I have not updated the firmware.

Do you encouter any further problem on your X1 / VP50 after updated the firmware on the X1?

Well that’s sort of a loaded question…. :)

The very frequent and irritating “hdmi errors” all but disappeared.
The low uncompressed PCM LFE via hdmi bug is still there.
The incredibly long load time is still there.
It still has troubles with some dvd’s and gives me a “no disk” error.
It still skips and pauses at will for no apparent reason.
I still have to re-boot the damn thing every time I interrupt its play.


But other than that, the X1 and VP50 are playing together nicely. On a side note, if you do not have Ethernet to download the firmware, you’ll need to call Toshiba and have them send you a disk (unless you can find it on-line somewhere). There is a newer firmware version available in Japan, and all of us ‘non-Japanese’ X1 owners are anxiously waiting for it to become available to us. Do a search on the HD/DVD player board for more information.

Regards……..mike

Mike, thank you very much for the information. :)

Well that’s sort of a loaded question…. :)

The very frequent and irritating “hdmi errors” all but disappeared.
The low uncompressed PCM LFE via hdmi bug is still there.
The incredibly long load time is still there.
It still has troubles with some dvd’s and gives me a “no disk” error.
It still skips and pauses at will for no apparent reason.
I still have to re-boot the damn thing every time I interrupt its play.


But other than that, the X1 and VP50 are playing together nicely. On a side note, if you do not have Ethernet to download the firmware, you’ll need to call Toshiba and have them send you a disk (unless you can find it on-line somewhere). There is a newer firmware version available in Japan, and all of us ‘non-Japanese’ X1 owners are anxiously waiting for it to become available to us. Do a search on the HD/DVD player board for more information.

Regards……..mike

Regarding the IR codes.

I compared the DVDO CCF file (all CCF remote commands for Pronto) with generated IR codes. For example the "UP" code command from the CCF remote works but the code is slightly different from a generated code. The generated code does not work.

I’ve got the Oppo 970 for SD, a Toshiba X1 and PS3 for HD and BR.

I’m using a Prismasonic 1400 FE lens for horizontal expansion and I’m shooting onto a 2.35 screen.

I’m not sure if I’ve been doing the “vertical stretch” right with the VP-50. I just stumbled onto a thread elsewhere that indicated some dvd’s are anamorphically (is that a word?) enhanced, whereas HD and BR are not. The poster goes on to say that some dvd’s are formatted to use a letterbox function whereas the image is stored on the disk already vertically stretched. I don’t understand that???

Regardless if I’m watching SD, HD or BR disks that are 2.35 / 2.40…..I just change the input aspect ratio on the VP from 16.9 to 4.3. This stretches the image and gets rid of the top and bottom black bars. This has been a pretty simple and painless three button change. Menu > input AR > toggle to the right format of 4.3 or 16.9. (I’m going off memory here so I may have the menu names screwed up)

I have tried messing around with output settings and creating profiles, but couldn’t quite figure all that out so I gave up. Now that I’ve had the VP for a few months and can navigate through the menu to some extent without totally screwing things up, I’m ready to try setting up profiles or do things differently.

So I guess to finally get around to my question, am I stretching the image correctly to get the best possible picture, or should I be doing something different?

Thanks……

That one way of doing it ..I guess. I have an anamorphic lens / 2.35 screen also.
I set "Display" to 2.35, "Screen to 2.35 then control the displayed image to what ever it should be using the stock remotes "Aspect" button. My lens is always in place.

Regardless if I’m watching SD, HD or BR disks that are 2.35 / 2.40…..I just change the input aspect ratio on the VP from 16.9 to 4.3. This stretches the image and gets rid of the top and bottom black bars. This has been a pretty simple and painless three button change. Menu > input AR > toggle to the right format of 4.3 or 16.9. (I’m going off memory here so I may have the menu names screwed up)
Thanks……

I do the same thing.

The problem you are seeing in the pronto edit simulator has been there for a long time. There are many cases and conditions where it just locks up. I have found that in almost all cases the IR codes it locks up on are correct and it is a problem with the simulator. I stopped using the simulator due to the frustration it was causing me. I just paste the codes into the hex window and download to the pronto, then I check them out in the real world. Does not take too long.

Barry (Gary, and other beta testers) - are there serious problems with the latest beta? I don't need it, but if there are improvements to be had, would be nice. Since Josh took the unprecedented measure of saying it would be out, and it isn't, can one assume that the new bugs are worse than the old ones? (Wondering, if for no other reason, than because Gary hasn't been dropping sly little hints that the unwashed just need to wait a bit, for the mana to fall from heaven. :))

Jon, sorry, I cannot comment on that

I wouldn't go as far as to say you guys were unwashed though :D

-Gary

Re the latest beta, sorry I can not comment.

I have just updated my DVDO utility program (located on my web site www.the-gordons.net) to allow for the generation of a text file containing the Discrete IR codes for the VP50. The release notes provide the details. If anyone out there wants to test some of them, just do a cut and paste of entries from the resulting text file and let me know what does and does not work.

The codes look good to me, they are very clean, but there is some question about what was actually implemented by ABT in this area.

Thanks Barry, I'll try them soon as I can then report back.

EDIT: The sites Revision Hstory and info is not working.

Beta 1.03 is up at DVDO!

Anyone know what is in the update?
Please tell me 1080p24 is fixed.

From the site:

iScan VP50 1.03 Beta Software (March 30, 2007)
Thank you for your interest in the iScan VP50 1.03 beta software. This software applies to iScan VP50 models only, and must not be loaded into HD, HD+ or VP30, VP20 units.

This pre-release version of our software contains the following new features:

New Forced 3:2 and Forced 2:2 Deinterlacing Modes

The Forced 3:2 and Forced 2:2 modes must have a 'high quality' source to initially lock or to re-lock on to after a cadence disruption. The forced cadence modes are definitely useful for watching a movie from start to finish. They are less useful for content with a lot of bad edits, and also if you're going to be skipping around a lot between chapters. (Pausing and then restarting could sometimes also be a problem.) With most film content where you just want to watch the movie, they work very well. These are the recommended movie-watching deinterlacing modes. The Forced 2:2 Mode replaces the ‘2:2 Even’ and ‘2:2 Odd’ Deinterlacing modes.

This software version also addresses and corrects the following
bugs:

Fixed the 1080i Tri-Sync bug
Fixed the 24Hz Locked Output
Addressed Scaler limitation in limited scenarios by adding “Field Scale” Deinterlacing mode. This mode is only available when the input is 1080i and is only needed if the output format is less than 540p (for example VGA or 480p) or if a large value of “Underscan” is being used.
Fixed remote control repeat bug
Updated Automation Protocol
Updated Standby Mode so that unit does not power down while scrolling through menus

No noise reduction :(
Will it ever come?

Since the beta has been released, as a beta tester I was/am very satisfied with its performance on what I tested.

Cable TV HD DVR as input: Drops of audio, but reproducable when re-played (I time shift all viewing) often accompanied by pixelation. No "Hiccups". A/V on HDMI into VP50, split out to HDMI to PJ and Optical audio out to Audio processor.

DVD playing (not HD-DVD nor BR, just old DVD): Video on Component, audio on Digital Input No dropouts at all.

In my system I consider the audio drop problem resolved.

JimmyR

Sorry about that. The link is now fixed.

Yes, now I can comment, the new forced deinterlacing modes are amazing, use them with sources you know are true 100% film, like Blu-ray and HD-DVD, or even 100% film DVD viewing, great stuff indeed, this is something I am very pleased with

menu remote navigation is 100% stable now, that along with 100% stable discrete IR performance DVDO got working a few months back leaves that area perfected

DVDO is working out the bugs pretty well IMHO, same as everyone else, I am looking forward to new unannounced features down the road, people get excited over new features, there is less excitement from folks about bug fixes ( except us geeky types :D )

-Gary

its great that a new FW has been released and bugs are being addressed... ... mine is working fine, so I'll keep the 1.01 version until new features are released... NR & detailed enhacement ......

I am at work, darn it! Can someone try out the new firmware specifically to tell if the image tearing with 1080p24 output is fixed. Many thanks if you can.

Here is the link (http://www.anchorbaytech.com/support/software_downloads/update/vp50.beta_agreement.1.03.php) to the download site for lazy people like me :).
____
Axel

Since the beta has been released, as a beta tester I was/am very satisfied with its performance on what I tested.

Cable TV HD DVR as input: Drops of audio, but reproducable when re-played (I time shift all viewing) often accompanied by pixelation. No "Hiccups". A/V on HDMI into VP50, split out to HDMI to PJ and Optical audio out to Audio processor.

DVD playing (not HD-DVD nor BR, just old DVD): Video on Component, audio on Digital Input No dropouts at all.

In my system I consider the audio drop problem resolved.

So "no hiccups" on audio with the new version? That's all I have at this point. SJ

I was going to bed, now I need to update the VP50 before I'll be able to sleep.

I was going to bed, now I need to update the VP50 before I'll be able to sleep.

it's a sick hobby :D , I know that problem very well as it has happened to me :p and with the VP50 the software contains alot , taking a while to load

-Gary

This update is much better. Now i can go between any HDMI input and the PS3 will come back without me having to switch back and forth a few times to get it to sync up. Plus I didn't lose any of my settings, but i had a copy of all of them just in case.
It still seems just as solid with my XA2, Series3 TiVo, HR10-250 TiVo, and the Comcast cable box. I didn't spend more than 25 minutes checking it out though. I'll be using it for at least 15 hours over the next few days so i'll get to see how this release is. It definitely seems to be an improvement.

I didn't lose any settings either. So what does the forced 3:2 do? I can't tell any difference between it and Film mode.

Well, 1080p24 not working at all for me. Completely choppy video.
Before, at least it worked for a while, until the tearing occurred.

Well, 1080p24 not working at all for me. Completely choppy video.
Before, at least it worked for a while, until the tearing occurred.

What is your display device ?

Beta 1.03 is up at DVDO!

Excellent!

Good to hear that some HDCP problems might be solved, I had some with XE1 and PS3. I hope the 1080p24 will now work with my display (Pioneer PDP-507XA), will report back soon.

This update is much better. Now i can go between any HDMI input and the PS3 will come back without me having to switch back and forth a few times to get it to sync up. ...

This is great news!
I'll only get a chance to try the new FW over the weekend, but I am looking forward to it. Also I like the announced IR robustness improvements.
I have not seen anything about the long promised pass through feature, though.
____
Axel

axel,

passthrough was promised for VP30 only, AFAIK.

If I wanted a passthorugh I would just connect the device and the vP50 to a switch. That's the whole reason I have the VP50. You can input any resolution and make adjustments , like overscan, to the picture and output at any resolution.

What is your display device ?

JVC RS1

If I wanted a passthorugh I would just connect the device and the vP50 to a switch. That's the whole reason I have the VP50. You can input any resolution and make adjustments , like overscan, to the picture and output at any resolution.

True, but in some occasions that would be useful. For example, if I want to play PS3 games, I want to pass the signal through unaltered with zero lag. But when watching BD, I want to process the signal to 720p or 1080p24.

Being new to the VP50 (less than 30days) my unit has original firmware. I occasionally have HDMI switching issues and would be willing to upgrade the firmware. What concerns me is all of the warnings on the DVDO website about "chipset compatability" which really is unclear. Is this a chipset used in the VP50 or your computer? For those who have upgraded firmware in the past is it really that difficult? Could really use some feedback as my projector will arrive soon and I would like the VP50 to be as up to date as possible. Your help will be greatly appreciated. :confused:

Beta 1.03 is up at DVDO!

This is really good news. I am considering to buy the DVDO VP50, but my main consern has been the 1080p24 output issues. If I am not wrong there have also been som issues with the HDMI-sound? I hope these have been solved in this beta version.

Please report your findings as soon as possible...

True, but in some occasions that would be useful. For example, if I want to play PS3 games, I want to pass the signal through unaltered with zero lag. But when watching BD, I want to process the signal to 720p or 1080p24.

You must be even better (or twitchier) than I am; I have a switch, could run my PS3 direct, but don't bother. Like the convenience of having it running thru the VP50; as for lag, my built-in lag must match that of the VP50. :) I'm in the top 25 on GT-HD, and have already pretty much beaten NFS Carbon, in just a weekend. I'm sure there is lag, but it hasn't made me go to the trouble of running direct.

True, but in some occasions that would be useful. For example, if I want to play PS3 games, I want to pass the signal through unaltered with zero lag. But when watching BD, I want to process the signal to 720p or 1080p24.

I didn't think about that. I can't use HDMI for games on my TV because of lag so I have to use VGA. But another option is also to get an HDMI splitter. I have one on my PS3 but for me i split it between my receiver and the VP50. I guess i should try it again straight through the VP50 with the new firmware. With the older one it would get stuck in the audio mode and I would have to switch inputs and back to get it to change to a different audio format. Like when it would switch between 7.1 audio and 5.1.

Being new to the VP50 (less than 30days) my unit has original firmware. I occasionally have HDMI switching issues and would be willing to upgrade the firmware. What concerns me is all of the warnings on the DVDO website about "chipset compatability" which really is unclear. Is this a chipset used in the VP50 or your computer? For those who have upgraded firmware in the past is it really that difficult? Could really use some feedback as my projector will arrive soon and I would like the VP50 to be as up to date as possible. Your help will be greatly appreciated. :confused:

I think that has to do with the USB to serial adapters. If your PC has a serial port you should be fine. If you have to use a USB to serial adapter you need to make sure you have one that will work properly with the firmware update.
My HTPC has a serial port and this seems to be all I use the PC for anymore. Updating the firmware of my A/V equipment.

Well, 1080p24 not working at all for me. Completely choppy video.
Before, at least it worked for a while, until the tearing occurred.

Same for me, used with a JVC HD1, 24p output is completly uselless now :mad:
Back to 1.01 right now.
Does some DVDO men on this thread? :o

You must be even better (or twitchier) than I am; I have a switch, could run my PS3 direct, but don't bother. Like the convenience of having it running thru the VP50; as for lag, my built-in lag must match that of the VP50. :) I'm in the top 25 on GT-HD, and have already pretty much beaten NFS Carbon, in just a weekend. I'm sure there is lag, but it hasn't made me go to the trouble of running direct.

:D ... I guess I'll continue using a direct connetion via DVDO VS4 switch. Some games are 720p and some 1080i, and with 768p display I want to send my all games at their native resolution. And I guess awkward things will happen when VP50 deinterlaces 1080i game to 1080p and then interlaces it to 1080i after processing.

I didn't think about that. I can't use HDMI for games on my TV because of lag so I have to use VGA. But another option is also to get an HDMI splitter. I have one on my PS3 but for me i split it between my receiver and the VP50. I guess i should try it again straight through the VP50 with the new firmware. With the older one it would get stuck in the audio mode and I would have to switch inputs and back to get it to change to a different audio format. Like when it would switch between 7.1 audio and 5.1.

There's going to be a huge amount af HDMI splitters at HTs soon :D. One for splitting audio for the amp, one for splitting direct signal to display (for games) and one for splitting signal between the TV and the projector. I'm currently looking for a splitter for the latter use... Are there any good and relatively cheap units in Europe?

Same for me, used with a JVC HD1, 24p output is completly uselless now :mad:

Same goes with Pioneer 507. Just installed the 1.03 beta and tested it with 1080i60 output from both XE1 and PS3. With 1080p24 output and "24Hz Lock" chosen the output was still constantly really choppy (like cheap video slow motion). With "Unlock 24.00Hz/23.97Hz/23.98Hz" the playback was changing between smooth and choppy. Factory reset didn't help (used to do lot of does with Vantage-HD).

Ran again into some HDCP issues with XE1 after the factory reset, PS3 was fine (but the 1080p24 was choppy aswell).

So I still have use for the VS4 switch :o

Same for me, used with a JVC HD1, 24p output is completly uselless now :mad:
Back to 1.01 right now.
Does some DVDO men on this thread? :o

Well that's not good news but we have to remember this is a "beta" upgrade.
I'm also an JVC RS1 owner and I was looking forward to being able to actually use the 24p option. After reading that the first two RS1/HD1 didn't work I'm still going to upgrade the new firmware to my VP 50 for its other benifits. I'll be interested seening how the Sony's at 24p fair with this version.

I sure hope we don't have to wait 4 months for the next firmware fixes.

following bugs still present from my side:

1.) white blinking line issue
2.) discrete IR Codes still not working correct

ok: ok the fix list does not mention them but also no official statement that these problems exists.

following bugs still present from my side:

1.) white blinking line issue
2.) discrete IR Codes still not working correct

ok: ok the fix list does not mention them but also no official statement that these problems exists.

discrete remote codes have been working 100% perfect for a while, that puzzles me on your end

-Gary

discrete remote codes have been working 100% perfect for a while, that puzzles me on your end

-Gary

sorry but they are not :-)

there are some discrete codes a generated from gordons dvdo tool, i also mention this to dvdo and they confirm that to me.

i mention this earlier in this thread and as i remember it was test pattern ON that is not working for excample.

try it generate it from gordons tools and then you see that it is not working.

only the standart codes arew working but not the extendet

1.03 fixed the 1080i output problem. It also has nice solid menus. Nice job DVDO. Now we just need a 1080p24 fix.

:D ... I guess I'll continue using a direct connetion via DVDO VS4 switch. Some games are 720p and some 1080i, and with 768p display I want to send my all games at their native resolution. And I guess awkward things will happen when VP50 deinterlaces 1080i game to 1080p and then interlaces it to 1080i after processing.
What's that all about? Why would you want to convert a 1080i game (I don't think any games create 1080i out of choice by the way) output to 1080p then 1080i again?

I do think the progressive cadence detection lag bug needs fixing though. It's important.

Also, does anyone know of a terminal program for linux that I can use? My only PC with a serial port is running linux at the moment and while I can hack my way around, I don't know it well enough to know which terminal program to use :)

Cheers

sorry but they are not :-)

there are some discrete codes a generated from gordons dvdo tool, i also mention this to dvdo and they confirm that to me.

i mention this earlier in this thread and as i remember it was test pattern ON that is not working for excample.

try it generate it from gordons tools and then you see that it is not working.

only the standart codes arew working but not the extendet

the extended codes are working in my system, the codes related to direct test patterns and test pattern on and off don't work, basically anything test patterns, you are correct there

I use many other extended every day though, like aspect ratio profiles, input aspect profiles etc.

-Gary

Hi Jon,
I was hoping someone would chime in on the 1080i issue. What changes have you noticed?

Hopefully we'll hear from Aaronwt on this too.

thx, Tom

1.03 fixed the 1080i output problem. It also has nice solid menus. Nice job DVDO. Now we just need a 1080p24 fix.

the extended codes are working in my system, the codes related to direct test patterns and test pattern on and off don't work, basically anything test patterns, you are correct there

I use many other extended every day though, like aspect ratio profiles, input aspect profiles etc.

-Gary

yes the others i used are also working its just some of them.
i just tested test pattern on and this is not working in the past there where some more but i found out that they are mixed up a little so i renemed my proto buttons to be correct :-)))

hey garry

do have a clue how to increase or decrease the overscan directly ? or is it possible to enter values with dot number like 1.3 %, i tried the gordon tool but it only allows 1.0% 2.0% in fulll digits

Well that's not good news but we have to remember this is a "beta" upgrade.
I'm also an JVC RS1 owner and I was looking forward to being able to actually use the 24p option. After reading that the first two RS1/HD1 didn't work I'm still going to upgrade the new firmware to my VP 50 for its other benifits. I'll be interested seening how the Sony's at 24p fair with this version.

I sure hope we don't have to wait 4 months for the next firmware fixes.

Did not work with my Pearl it is useless i go back to 1.01

You must be even better (or twitchier) than I am; I have a switch, could run my PS3 direct, but don't bother. Like the convenience of having it running thru the VP50; as for lag, my built-in lag must match that of the VP50. :) I'm in the top 25 on GT-HD, and have already pretty much beaten NFS Carbon, in just a weekend. I'm sure there is lag, but it hasn't made me go to the trouble of running direct.

i have my PS3 running through the VP50 also, input at 1080p and output at 1080p. I don't really notice any lag, what are we talking about here, i'm guessing on the magnitude of milliseconds, can you guys really react that fast? hmm, on the other hand maybe this is why i'm so bad at all the games :rolleyes:

As far as I can tell the code generator is properly generating the Discrete IR codes. I still have some questions into DVDO but based upon the info they gave me the current version of the code generator in the utility is doing what it is supposed to do.

What we are all calling discrete codes are really a different IR protocol than what the Remote puts out. I believe I covered this before in this thread, but once again, the Remote puts out an industry standard protocol that almost any learning or algorithmically programmed (i.e. you ender a code number for your component) remote will handle.

The discrete IR codes are a whole different protocol and that protocol appears to be unique to DVDO, although there is one by Sony that shares some of the same concepts. In the Discrete (for want of a better term) protocol the data is related to the RS232 Automation commands.

Each automation command consists of a command code followed by a value. The value may be an ascii code of an integer representing an enumeration (for example Presets form an enumeration set); may be a range of integer value (for example the values for Horizontal back porch); may be a range of values (positive and negative) as either integers or real numbers (e.g. 1.32). The value is coded as successive ASCII digits with a preceeding minus if necessary and a decimal point if a real value. Finally the IR protocol contains a checksum. Any one with a good understanding of IR can figure this all out by looking at the values published on the ABT site. It, the discrete protcol, may be unique to DVDO, but it is easily decoded (reverse engineered) if you are familiar with IR protocols in general.

At least a one of the values on the ABT site is not clean. The value shown as the RGBVH/Component 3 value is in the Remote IR format and is way too long. It may work, it is just not what I would call clean.

If anyone has a instance of a Discrete IR or remote IR code generated by my Utility not working please send me the hex data as generated by the system along with the name of the command and the value used. Either it is generated wrong, or it is to specification as was described to me and not being properly handled by the VP50

I do still have some questions to DVDO regarding the Discrete IR protocol format, but they seem to be too busy with other issues to deal with this one at this time. I am not a humble person, and I am pretty sure I have gotten it correct.

My problem is that right now I am swamped with a few things and I do not have the time to paste patterns into a Pronto to verify they are working. If I did and tested them, their not working could be either I am generating wrong or the VP50 firmware is not quite right yet.

I have seen that in some cases (enumeration sets) I am generating a different value than what is listed at the DVDO site. In this case the IR code should just do a different member of the set. I used the values in the reference document they gave me, and if there was an update I did not know about, that is an issue.

DVDO has changed its philosophy, as is their right, regarding third party software such as my utility program. It appears they would rather it did not exist. I think that is a shortsighted viewpoint but I do understand it. Other vendors of different software based gizmos support third party endeavors, and generally their software benefits more from it (e.g Slim devces, Roku Labs, Tivo etc.) but that is a company management/philosophy choice.

i have my PS3 running through the VP50 also, input at 1080p and output at 1080p. I don't really notice any lag, what are we talking about here, i'm guessing on the magnitude of milliseconds, can you guys really react that fast? hmm, on the other hand maybe this is why i'm so bad at all the games :rolleyes:
There's about a 50ms delay, it's quite a lot, you can definitely notice it on the Wii remote for example, or on any reaction games.

OK, I just loaded 1.03 and contrary to my fellow RS1,HD1 (JVC) owners found 24fps does work meaning it allows video to the monitor but it's "missing" frames jumpy as heck.

Before with 24 locked and 1.01 the image was tearing at the bottom third of the screen and no jumpyness above the tearing.. Back to the drawing board on this issue DVDO.

Next to try Barry's new "Discrete" codes.

1.03 fixed the 1080i output problem. It also has nice solid menus. Nice job DVDO. Now we just need a 1080p24 fix.

Sweet! I forgot to test for that last night. I've been using 720P output for so long. I'll have to change my output settings and watch some scenes from Happy feet to see how it looks now.

OK, I just loaded 1.03 and contrary to my fellow RS1,HD1 (JVC) owners found 24fps does work meaning it allows video to the monitor but it's "missing" frames jumpy as heck.

Before with 24 locked and 1.01 the image was tearing at the bottom third of the screen and no jumpyness above the tearing.. Back to the drawing board on this issue DVDO.

Next to try Barry's new "Discrete" codes.

Actually, that's exactly what I noticed. Unwatchable = not working.

I did talk to someone at DVDO last week, and they said that they were trying to get a RS1 for testing (must have had a few requests).

Thank you again Barry Gordon..

The VP50 discrete's I needed for 1.78,1.85 and 2.35 (Active AR) now work perfectly in my Pronto Pro after copying and pasting from your new "discrete ir *code.txt file.

I am in your debt as should be Anchor Bay. I hope they are paying attention to your efforts, if not the VP50 will be my fourth and last DVDO product.

JimmrR,

You are welcome. That text file was produced using the 'GEN ALL' option of the utilities IR generator. You should get the same exact pattern if you just select the single item from the drop down list. and paste the resulting pattern that shoes up. All 'GEN ALL' does is iterate through all of the drop down command entries and put the result in a text file. I did it more for testing than for real use.

OK, I just loaded 1.03 and contrary to my fellow RS1,HD1 (JVC) owners found 24fps does work meaning it allows video to the monitor but it's "missing" frames jumpy as heck.

Before with 24 locked and 1.01 the image was tearing at the bottom third of the screen and no jumpyness above the tearing.. Back to the drawing board on this issue DVDO.

Next to try Barry's new "Discrete" codes.

I have video on the display but have the same issue, not missing frames rather search if a frame remains on on the picture :D :D :D

What's that all about? Why would you want to convert a 1080i game (I don't think any games create 1080i out of choice by the way) output to 1080p then 1080i again?

Ok, that was a bit misleading :rolleyes:.

Some games look better on my 768p display with 1080i and some can only do 720p. And for BD movies I want to use 1080i60, so that my display can reconstruct the original 24fps for film (and show it at 72fps). This is why I need have 1080i selected from PS3 (or switch between 1080p for games and 1080i for games all the time with VP50 connected). I think it's just easier to have the PS3 directly connected to the display.

Actually, that's exactly what I noticed. Unwatchable = not working.

I did talk to someone at DVDO last week, and they said that they were trying to get a RS1 for testing (must have had a few requests).
It sounds like the 24 issue is common to Sony as well and they probably have a Pearl/Ruby or two on hand :).

There's about a 50ms delay, it's quite a lot, you can definitely notice it on the Wii remote for example, or on any reaction games.Choddo is right. The VP50 delays any progressive source by 3 frames. Including base processing delay, that's 56ms. For comparison, with Game Mode 1 deinterlacing, the total lag is only 6ms.

To give a few examples from well-known games I've played recently: In Zelda, it doesn't really matter. For God of War, it's occasionally annoying but still playable. For Smash Brothers or Wii Tennis at pro levels, it's the difference between win and lose. The workaround is to use your consoles only in 480i or 1080i for games where speed matters.

DVDO, are you listening? There are lots of gamers out here who want to use your VP. We really do exist. (Also, if you want a comparison point in your favor versus Crystalio, take a look at this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10213983&&#post10213983).)

[Edit: I can't figure out why the link won't work. Maybe it's too long? It goes here:
http://www.avsforum.com/
avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10213983&&#post10213983

OK, I just loaded 1.03 and contrary to my fellow RS1,HD1 (JVC) owners found 24fps does work meaning it allows video to the monitor but it's "missing" frames jumpy as heck.

It sounds like the 24 issue is common to Sony as well and they probably have a Pearl/Ruby or two on hand

Same symptoms observed on Marantz VP11S1L.

Installed 1.03 FW.
No drama. :)

Question: Would it be OK to leave the serial cable attached to the VP and the other end unattached? No ''stray" signals would interfere?
It is difficult to reach around and re-connect the cable for each FW update. I was thinking it would make easier next time if I only need to connect my laptop.

Choddo is right. The VP50 delays any progressive source by 3 frames. Including base processing delay, that's 56ms. For comparison, with Game Mode 1 deinterlacing, the total lag is only 6ms.

To give a few examples from well-known games I've played recently: In Zelda, it doesn't really matter. For God of War, it's occasionally annoying but still playable. For Smash Brothers or Wii Tennis at pro levels, it's the difference between win and lose. The workaround is to use your consoles only in 480i or 1080i for games where speed matters.

DVDO, are you listening? There are lots of gamers out here who want to use your VP. We really do exist. (Also, if you want a comparison point in your favor versus Crystalio, take a look at this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10213983&&#post10213983).)

[Edit: I can't figure out why the link won't work. Maybe it's too long? It goes here:
http://www.avsforum.com/
avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10213983&&#post10213983

This is seriously BS. Time to sell my VP50 and find a VP30+ABT102d for real this time. You guys have spent almost six months to fail to fix something that should've taken a week.

-1 VP50 owner here

Same symptoms observed on Marantz VP11S1L.

When I saw the Marantz/VP50 combo back in November on the HD DVD trailer, they were running 1080p48 with no problems.

I had thought the reason was that the Marantz only accepted 48. Is it new that the Marantz can accept 24, or has the VP50 been the problem all along?

Installed 1.03 FW.
No drama. :)

Question: Would it be OK to leave the serial cable attached to the VP and the other end unattached? No ''stray" signals would interfere?
It is difficult to reach around and re-connect the cable for each FW update. I was thinking it would make easier next time if I only need to connect my laptop.
I have had a 25 foot cable attached since last August with no problems. It is coiled on my subwoofer ready to run to another room where my computer sits. :)

I was trying out the VP50 with 1080i output for the last 45 minutes. It's defintely putting out 1080i like it should unlike v1.01. I'm glad to have the extra detail in the picture now. Although once I replace my set with one capable of HDMI 1080P input I can change my output to 1080P. So far everything has been fantastic with v1.03 for me. I'll have to watch a few BD and HD DVDs this weekend and enjoy the 1080i output. You can see the extra detail that 720P output was missing. I'm very happy with this firmware . :)

My VP50 just arrived. I am not getting 5.1 audio from my PS3 (HDMI) or HD-XA2 (HDMI) only a hollow sounding 2 channel. My other 5.1 sources with optical audio are fine. Help?

I'm feeding a 640x480 VGA signal to my VP50 via a VGA to BNC cable. The image displays on the screen, but it's shifted slightly to the left and there's no way for me to change it. I tried the VP50's "Pan" option, but this option isn't adjustable in BNC input mode (at least in 1.01).

Can I pan the image from a VGA signal in Firmware 1.0, or am I just screwed? (There is no possible way to adjust the image output from the source).

Here's an image with a crosshatch test from the source; notice how the left part of the crosshatch doesn't show all the way. I mainly wanted to highlight the info box, anyway:

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/5738/bncnz9.th.jpg (http://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bncnz9.jpg)

Any help is welcome!

Tried to see if this was fixed in 1.03. VGA signals via BNC input are "better" now, but still slightly off-centered. It's still not possible to pan the image, so there is still no way for me to see all of the screen. If I set Horizonal Border to "22", I can cover up the black bar created on the right side but this cuts off even more from the left of course.

So, for the record, VGA 640x480 input images should be set 22 blips to the right for the next VP50 firmware coming in 2009. I'm counting down the time already!

iScan VP50 1.03 Beta Firmware Crosshatch Test (VGA 640x480 via BNC):
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/9349/v9030258mc0.th.jpg (http://img181.imageshack.us/my.php?image=v9030258mc0.jpg)

Almost there!

Question: Would it be OK to leave the serial cable attached to the VP and the other end unattached? No ''stray" signals would interfere?
It is difficult to reach around and re-connect the cable for each FW update. I was thinking it would make easier next time if I only need to connect my laptop.
I've been doing exactly that for a long time. No issues.

Josh Z,

Just curious - Have you tried the 'forced 3:2' deinterlacing mode of the latest VP50 firmware release with your Star Wars laser discs? I was wondering if this new mode might give you better results than you've seen so far.

- Dale Adams

Question: Would it be OK to leave the serial cable attached to the VP and the other end unattached? No ''stray" signals would interfere?
It is difficult to reach around and re-connect the cable for each FW update. I was thinking it would make easier next time if I only need to connect my laptop.

I've been doing exactly that for a long time. No issues.

The same here.

I have a loose cable on all equipment that I can update. plug in and upgrade! SJ

It sounds like the 24 issue is common to Sony as well and they probably have a Pearl/Ruby or two on hand :).

I spoke with DVDO today after loading 1.03 software. I have an RS1 and had the tearing at the lower 1/3 with v1.01. I too am seeing the full frame studdering now with my PS3 outputting 1080p-60 and my Tosh HD-A2 outputting 1080i-60.

It's not much consolation but I'm glad I'm not the only one experiencing this issue.

Let's hope that they can shorten the interval between 1.01 and 1.03 updates (and get it right this time). I expected this unit to be the glue in my HT setup not the most disappointing choice I made when selecting my hardware....

Hi Jon,
I was hoping someone would chime in on the 1080i issue. What changes have you noticed?

Hopefully we'll hear from Aaronwt on this too.

thx, Tom


Tom, 1080i is not bobbed to 540p like it was. it now works fine with 1.03. My only issue is with a 24frame input (sony blu ray) which is jerky and stutters for 1080 p60 output 1. Otherwise the software seems good

Cool...thanx everyone. :)

Tom, 1080i is not bobbed to 540p like it was. it now works fine with 1.03. My only issue is with a 24frame input (sony blu ray) which is jerky and stutters for 1080 p60 output 1
Maybe I won't get rid of my Panny BD drive for a 24p player. :eek:

I have the same issue: RS1 (called DLA-HD1 in Europe) + VP50 with 1.03. Motion in 24p is stuttering all the time. Going back to 1.01, but I would love to see a fix.

Chris

Just curious - Have you tried the 'forced 3:2' deinterlacing mode of the latest VP50 firmware release with your Star Wars laser discs? I was wondering if this new mode might give you better results than you've seen so far.

Dale, thanks for remembering that!

No, I haven't tried the Star Wars discs yet. However, I did experiment with "Forced 3:2" on some HD DVDs, and honestly I was getting some combing artifacts on Happy Feet and found the standard "Film Bias" mode a lot better. I don't know if that means the disc has some bad edits or what, but I was really not expecting to see that.

As for the Star Wars LDs, at this point I'm convinced that it's just something inherent in the master, due to using way too much DNR at the transfer stage. I doubt that anything will help with it.

I have the same issue: RS1 (called DLA-HD1 in Europe) + VP50 with 1.03. Motion in 24p is stuttering all the time. Going back to 1.01, but I would love to see a fix.

Chris

Why go back to 1.01 ?
The 24 issue is not working properly on it either but you do have some new benifits that work in 1.03.

My display is a Sony VPL-VW50 1080p/60. I loaded 1.03 into the VP-50. Still no pass thru DD/DTS Via HDMI from my PS3 into the VP-50 then optical out to my Citation 5.0. Running an optical cable into the VP-50 from the PS3 for all audio then VP-50 optical out to my Citation. Oh well, for now still using one extra optical cable....Other than that - 1080i from my RCA DTC-210 digital Directv receiver looks (I think) better. Menus on the VP-50 are faster. Will try a BD disk and two regular DVDs this weekend to see what's up. Have Happy Feet and Flags of Our Fathers. Cold (possible snow) in the east...great theater time before the yard calls.....

Generally happy

Thank you DVDO, but there is still work to be done! Drive on!

Happy Easter everyone!

thx Jon & Aaronwt

Tom, 1080i is not bobbed to 540p like it was. it now works fine with 1.03. My only issue is with a 24frame input (sony blu ray) which is jerky and stutters for 1080 p60 output 1. Otherwise the software seems good

Is anyone that is having a problem with 1080p-24 NOT using a JVC RS1/HD1?

Did not work with my Pearl it is useless i go back to 1.01
Maybe you missed this one,.Josh Post 3832

My VP50 just arrived. I am not getting 5.1 audio from my PS3 (HDMI) or HD-XA2 (HDMI) only a hollow sounding 2 channel. My other 5.1 sources with optical audio are fine. Help?
I'm guessing that you have an AV receiver in the chain that can take LPCM over HDMI, and that your PS3 and XA2 are connected via HDMI?

There appears to be an issue with the VP50 in its ability to pass multi-channel uncompressed LPCM over HDMI (this is despite the fact that I received an email from DVDO directly informing me that, and I quote, "The VP50 should have no issues passing through a multi channel PCM signal.", and despite the fact that this is part of the HDMI 1.0 spec.

According to a post earlier in this thread by Stacey Spears, firmware version 1.01 should fix this problem though. Can you confirm which f/w you're running?

I'm hoping to be able to get hold of a USB>Serial lead in the next few days in order to update my VP50 to 1.01.

Quite why a customer should have to go through this nonsense simply to get a $3,000 box to work as promised, however, is beyond me.

togad,

1.03 also passes HDMI multichannel like 1.01.

Still no pass thru DD/DTS Via HDMI from my PS3 into the VP-50 then optical out to my Citation 5.0. Running an optical cable into the VP-50 from the PS3 for all audio then VP-50 optical out to my Citation.

I have a similar setup and I am OK. PS3 -> VP50 -> Meridian 861. I am getting DD in this scenario. I am also running TiVo 3 -> VP50 -> Meridian 861 as well as TiVo 3 -> VP50 -> Denon 2807.

togad,

1.03 also passes HDMI multichannel like 1.01.



I have a similar setup and I am OK. PS3 -> VP50 -> Meridian 861. I am getting DD in this scenario. I am also running TiVo 3 -> VP50 -> Meridian 861 as well as TiVo 3 -> VP50 -> Denon 2807.

Hi Stacey -

Uh oh.

That's not what the problem is (DD over I assume coax or optical from the VP50 to the 861?). The problem is getting uncompressed LPCM over HDMI through the VP50 to a processor/receiver over HDMI.

That's correct to those discussing audio over HDMI out from the VP-50. My Citation, and many pre-2005 high end audio systems do not have an HDMI In. Therefore, we are relying on the VP-50 to output all audio via the optical out. I do not get DD/DTS from the PS3 UNLESS I use the optical out from the PS3 in to the VP-50 and then out to the Citation even though I am using an HDMI to connect the PS3 to the VP-50 for video since my projector is a 1080p Sony. The VP-50 will not output DD/DTS from the optical out when an HDMI is used in my setup.

Hi Stacey -

Uh oh.

That's not what the problem is (DD over I assume coax or optical from the VP50 to the 861?). The problem is getting uncompressed LPCM over HDMI through the VP50 to a processor/receiver over HDMI.


togad- what player are you outputting MPCM from? are you sure it is configured right. On the HD DVD players you have to make sure it is set to PCM for HDMI audio or else you will get DD instead of MPCM output.

The VP50 output MPCM with 1.01. I will test it with 1.03 and report back.


Those with 24 frame problems, Are you outputting 24 or 60? I can only output 1080p60, but when I send the VP50 24 frame input it has a jerky 60p output with it.

togad- what player are you outputting MPCM from? are you sure it is configured right. On the HD DVD players you have to make sure it is set to PCM for HDMI audio or else you will get DD instead of MPCM output.

The VP50 output MPCM with 1.01. I will test it with 1.03 and report back.

Hi Jon -

I'm using a PS3. Everything is definitely set-up correctly. With the VP50 in the chain, I only get the front left and right channels (exactly as whateverdude reported). Remove the VP50 and hook up the PS3 directly into my receiver (Yamaha 2700) and I get 5.1 uncompressed as desired (when selected in the Blu-Ray Disc's menu). It's a hell of a difference from standard DD.

Ok, I have the same receiver but the Sony BDP-S1. I will try it this weekend and report back if whether I get MPCM on my 2700 or not with 1.03. It sounds like 1.03 might have taken away what 1.01 added (was missing in 1.00). Did you try turning the VP50 on and off a few times and switching to a different HDMI input and back. sometimes that fixes audio issues with the VP50.

Ok, I have the same receiver but the Sony BDP-S1. I will try it this weekend and report back if whether I get MPCM on my 2700 or not with 1.03. It sounds like 1.03 might have taken away what 1.01 added (was missing in 1.00). Did you try turning the VP50 on and off a few times and switching to a different HDMI input and back. sometimes that fixes audio issues with the VP50.
Hi Jon -

Really appreciate your offer of help. I should point out that I'm still on 1.0 (I currently have no way of upgrading the firmware as I'm Apple-only and don't have any USB>Serial adapters). Appreciate there may have been a bit of confusion on this as all the other discussion is on the latest firmware!

At least there's light at the end of the tunnel (if I'm reading into your post correctly and that LPCM was definitely correctly passed with 1.01).

Is anyone that is having a problem with 1080p-24 NOT using a JVC RS1/HD1?

I'm connected to a BenQ W10000 now (which claims to be compatible with 1080p24 in its literature) and don't get any picture at all with 1080p24 output from the VP50. The screen is just black (as opposed to when I try 1080p48, in which case I get a purple screen with a warning from the projector that says "Unsupported").

It's a brand new projector, though, so maybe I don't have something set up right. Will fiddle with it this weekend.

Are most of you connecting the audio to the VP50 or jsut bypassing it and going directly from your component to the receiver?

I just mounted a new Panasonic 1000U today. The only 1080P option I get on the menu is 1080P/60. The rest are greyed out. This projector is suposed to acept 1080P/24. I'm not sure what's going on yet.

Togad,

With the PS3, I send DD out as you point out because I have to go Coax into the 861.

I have a second VP50 that is HDMI in and out. This has the HD DVD before sending LPCM and the Denon 2807 after, which can handle LPCM. With 1.01 and 1.03, it works. With 1.00, 2-channel out of left and right and high pitch out of center and surrounds.

Togad,

With the PS3, I send DD out as you point out because I have to go Coax into the 861.

I have a second VP50 that is HDMI in and out. This has the HD DVD before sending LPCM and the Denon 2807 after, which can handle LPCM. With 1.01 and 1.03, it works. With 1.00, 2-channel out of left and right and high pitch out of center and surrounds.
Thanks for the clarification Stacey. Positive news afterall.

Now all I have to do is work out how to upgrade my VP50 with a MacBook!

so i installed the 1.03 and have following new problems

frame dropped when playing through sdi 50hz 576i and output 1080p 60 hz

this problem was not at the 1.01

it seems that the vp50 1.03 dropped 1-3 frames sometimes, after installing 1.01 the problwem is gone.

thats bad because of nicer ir transmission and menu navigation.

I have interesting news concerning the 24p problem with v1.03 and several RS1/HD1 (and also other) projectors.

Aaron from DVDO asked my to try the PREP feature, so I reinstalled v1.03 to test some things. But PREP did not do anything good, and the stutter stayed. I noticed that the RS1 does blank for two seconds when the input frequency is changed, unfortunately it does not give detailed information on the input signal. So I used the blanking as a marker.

My setup features a Toshiba E1 (the European A2) and a PS3. Both are connected to the VP50 via HDMI. Both show the same symptoms. Although the Thoshiba outputs 1080 60i, the results were the same.

I tried different combinations of Framerates, but as soon as I selected 24p, the stutter came back.

I then decided to try the unlocked mode and set the frequence to 23,98. The stutter was gone! But - sad to say - it came back. Periodicaly, but it changed every 2 oder 3 minutes and disappeared seconds later. The output from the RS1 was stable all the time, no resyncs due to changing input frequencies. As the picture was good from time to time and as I could "reset" it pause/play sometimes, my hint is that this stutter is a VP50 problem. The sync to the RS1 has been the same all the time and this feature was (with a different bug) "working" in v1.01.

I´d love to see some reponse from DVDO, as I really like the machine, but in this state, all it´s good for is switching inputs. Sad.

Regards
Chris

Are most of you connecting the audio to the VP50 or jsut bypassing it and going directly from your component to the receiver?

I go HDMI and Optical out from my PS3 into the VP-50 then optical out to my Citation and HDMI out to my Sony Pearl 1080p. If I went optical out from all my sources directly to my Citation I would have to keep telling my Citation what to process. Keeping it as simple as possible. Since the VP-50 will not pass DD/DTS via HDMI, it forces me to use the optical cable.

I've been having a very annoying problem with my HD DVD playback, I'd like to see if anyone else here has had the same issue. I'm using an HD-A2 connected to my VP50, which is outputting 720p60 to my H79 through my Denon AVR-3806. I'm running HDMI the entire way, with an HDMI -> DVI adapter at the H79.

About 20 to 30 minutes into watching an HD DVD, for some reason the bottom 1/5th or so of the picture starts getting refreshed a frame or two late, which causes a very visible "split" in the picture which is most noticeable in action scenes. Over a period of several minutes, the amount of screen on the bottom that's lagging diminishes until it disappears. Sometimes it comes back, sometimes it does not.

I have no idea what would cause this problem, and I haven't been home a lot lately to have the time to actually troubleshoot this - has anyone else seen this with their VP50? Thanks in advance for any replies.

Re question on how is audio being run, With 1.03 I am running all audio (HDMI and Component as that is what my sources are) through the VP50. The HDMI audio is on the HDMI cable and the Component audio comes in on a S/PDIF digital input. Out of the VP50 I run a 35 foot HDMI cable with a HDMI to DVI adapter at the projector end as my PJ has no HDMI input only DVI. I then take an optical output of the VP50 and feed that to a Lexicon MC1 which handles all Audio but no switching.

I am in the market for a new Audio processor but want one with no video processing, like one of the Bryston units. Does anyone know of any other really good audio only processors? Must be able to handle all modern audio formats with optical, Coaxial and analog inputs and should be able to handle 8-10 channels of decoded inputs for passthrough to the amplifier subsystem.

I am in the market for a new Audio processor but want one with no video processing, like one of the Bryston units. Does anyone know of any other really good audio only processors? Must be able to handle all modern audio formats with optical, Coaxial and analog inputs and should be able to handle 8-10 channels of decoded inputs for passthrough to the amplifier subsystem.

Barry,

I understand your dilemma and recently went through the same thing. Unless someone owns an external VP, they don’t understand what it is us VP guys are looking for. So, good luck as there are not many audio processors that fit the bill out yet. Most all of the receivers process HDMI audio, but none without their own bugs and the majority of them process video. I went with a Marantz SR 8001 and use it for all my switching because the VP-50 continued to have odd audio problems with LPCM. The Marantz has minimal video processing (converts to HDMI, but that can be disabled). I feed all my sources into the Marantz, then out of that into the VP. One bitch I have that I can’t get my hands on is the dam lip sync. This receiver will not allow different lip sync for the different inputs and there’s no way to make it automatic.

One unit that I am looking real hard at is the Anthem, AMV 40. It will not process discrete 6 or 7 channel LPCM, but will matrix it from 5.1 (same as Marantz).

I’ve studied this topic quite a bit and feel I can actually help, instead of ask stupid questions as I do on this board. Feel free to PM me for more information. I don’t want to get too far out in the weeds on this VP-50 thread.

I am in the market for a new Audio processor but want one with no video processing, like one of the Bryston units. Does anyone know of any other really good audio only processors? Must be able to handle all modern audio formats with optical, Coaxial and analog inputs and should be able to handle 8-10 channels of decoded inputs for passthrough to the amplifier subsystem.

One place to look is at Audiogon (http://www.audiogon.com/) and click on the proc category under HOME THEATER. There you can see what brands are available and in the classifieds you can see both old and new processors.

Barry,...Most all of the receivers process HDMI audio, but none without their own bugs and the majority of them process video. I went with a Marantz SR 8001 and use it for all my switching because the VP-50 continued to have odd audio problems with LPCM...The Marantz has minimal video processing (converts to HDMI, but that can be disabled). I feed all my sources into the Marantz, then out of that into the VP.

I'm not sure what "bugs" you are talking about and you say your Marantz can disable video processing, so that is not "minimal" processing, it is none. Similarly, my Denon 4806 accepts multiple HDMI inputs and video conversion/processing is disabled with one simple setting to "Off". I do the reverse of your setup and run all HDMI to the VP50 1st (including HD-DVD for TrueHD passthru) then to the Denon, which has a single HDMI output to the projector. In this way, all audio is presented/decoded in its original form. The TrueHD type audio is decoded in the HD-DVD player and passed thru to the Denon for simple distribution. Other types of DD, DTS, DTS-discreet, etc are decoded by the Denon and distributed up to 7.1 speakers. The VP50 then becomes switcher and scaler while the Denon or HD-DVD do the audio heavy lifting. No need for optical/coax cables and their limitations and a simpler cable solution of all HDMI inputs to 1 cable out to the projector in the theater room.

I'm guessing that you have an AV receiver in the chain that can take LPCM over HDMI, and that your PS3 and XA2 are connected via HDMI?

There appears to be an issue with the VP50 in its ability to pass multi-channel uncompressed LPCM over HDMI (this is despite the fact that I received an email from DVDO directly informing me that, and I quote, "The VP50 should have no issues passing through a multi channel PCM signal.", and despite the fact that this is part of the HDMI 1.0 spec.

According to a post earlier in this thread by Stacey Spears, firmware version 1.01 should fix this problem though. Can you confirm which f/w you're running?

I'm hoping to be able to get hold of a USB>Serial lead in the next few days in order to update my VP50 to 1.01.

Quite why a customer should have to go through this nonsense simply to get a $3,000 box to work as promised, however, is beyond me.

With everything sourced to the VP50, I had my VP50 audio output through coax to my Denon 2807 and my VP50 video output via HDMI direct to my plasma. Seems that if I input HDMI (with audio) sources (PS3, etc.) into the VP50 but output the audio out of the VP50 via coax or optical it's not passing 5.1 only 2 channel. If I input audio via optical or coax and then output via optical or coax it works.

So... I am now running everything (HD-XA2, PS3, 360, Wii, Comcast) into the VP50 (via HDMI or component with optical audio and analog (Wii)) and just going HDMI audio and video out to the Denon, then HDMI video out of the Denon to the plasma. No sync issues. All audio that was coming into the Denon as 2 channel before is now 5.1 multi channel. 5.1 HDMI audio in works with HDMI audio out. *5.1 HDMI audio in to the VP50 does not output 5.1 audio via coax or optical out of the VP50. At least not my VP50.

My initial post was made while using the 1.01 firmware. I did the upgrade to 1.03 however it made no difference in the tests.

I must say I am HIGHLY, I repeat HIGHLY impressed with the quality of my video signals now due to the VP50. It's not really noticeable with ultra high resolution content, but lower and mid range quality content looks near DVD quality now.

I'm connected to a BenQ W10000 now (which claims to be compatible with 1080p24 in its literature) and don't get any picture at all with 1080p24 output from the VP50. The screen is just black (as opposed to when I try 1080p48, in which case I get a purple screen with a warning from the projector that says "Unsupported").

It's a brand new projector, though, so maybe I don't have something set up right. Will fiddle with it this weekend.

I played around with this, and I'm still not sure whether it's a VP50 problem or a projector problem. 1080p24 output from the VP50 just gives me a black screen. The same thing happened when I tried to sync to either 25hz or 50hz with a PAL DVD. The projector is supposed to be compatible with all of these frame rates.

I tried "unlocking" the frame rate, but it always forces you to start at 60hz and drag the rate down to 24, which takes about 15 minutes! This is very annoying. Anyway, when I did this, I actually did get a picture at 24hz (and various fractional settings in the near vicinity), but it was stuttery as hell at any setting. And when I made the mistake of switching back to "Locked" 60hz and then back again, the picture went black once more and I couldn't get it back.

I'm not sure what "bugs" you are talking about and you say your Marantz can disable video processing, so that is not "minimal" processing, it is none. Similarly, my Denon 4806 accepts multiple HDMI inputs and video conversion/processing is disabled with one simple setting to "Off". I do the reverse of your setup and run all HDMI to the VP50 1st (including HD-DVD for TrueHD passthru) then to the Denon, which has a single HDMI output to the projector. In this way, all audio is presented/decoded in its original form. The TrueHD type audio is decoded in the HD-DVD player and passed thru to the Denon for simple distribution. Other types of DD, DTS, DTS-discreet, etc are decoded by the Denon and distributed up to 7.1 speakers. The VP50 then becomes switcher and scaler while the Denon or HD-DVD do the audio heavy lifting. No need for optical/coax cables and their limitations and a simpler cable solution of all HDMI inputs to 1 cable out to the projector in the theater room.


Well OK then. Bugs:

When I had first used the VP as the “hub” and all sources were routed to it first (with Beta 1.01 firmware installed), then to my audio processor, I would have intermittent ‘chirps’, complete drop outs (very quick, but complete), and I also had a hell of a time when the audio format would change from stereo to surround or whatever else the disk or satellite feed was sending. I would have to cycle from one input and then back again to get the VP to sync up. From your post, are you telling me with all honesty that you are experiencing NO (RE: ZERO) bugs routing all your sources into the VP first??? If you are, you are the first person to report this and I’m happy for you. I however, had these problems and am anxiously waiting for DVDO to fix them. I would much prefer to use the VP as my hub so I can set up all inputs differently, and have better lip sync. So please tell me, what's your secret? OR, what am I doing wrong???

I am doing the exact same thing with the Marnantz as you are. I can select all video to be bypassed or processed, just like your 4806. When I refer to “minimal” it was in reference to the fact that if I choose to not bypass the Marnantz VP, all it does is convert S-vid, Coax, or Component to HDMI out. And you can then select I / P for the unit to deinterlace a 480i to 480P. It will not up convert. So, that is what I am referring to as “minimal” whereas most over AVR’s will not allow a complete video pass through and / or they also upconvert. And, not all will pass 1080P without issues.

I'm not sure what "bugs" you are talking about and you say your Marantz can disable video processing, so that is not "minimal" processing, it is none. Similarly, my Denon 4806 accepts multiple HDMI inputs and video conversion/processing is disabled with one simple setting to "Off". I do the reverse of your setup and run all HDMI to the VP50 1st (including HD-DVD for TrueHD passthru) then to the Denon, which has a single HDMI output to the projector. In this way, all audio is presented/decoded in its original form. The TrueHD type audio is decoded in the HD-DVD player and passed thru to the Denon for simple distribution. Other types of DD, DTS, DTS-discreet, etc are decoded by the Denon and distributed up to 7.1 speakers. The VP50 then becomes switcher and scaler while the Denon or HD-DVD do the audio heavy lifting. No need for optical/coax cables and their limitations and a simpler cable solution of all HDMI inputs to 1 cable out to the projector in the theater room.

I have an identical setup (4806 & VP50) and have NO problems at all.
Only - sometimes - I have to switch off and on again my VP50 because it loses multichannel and gets only stereo. But that's it - it happens only randomly.

Is anyone that is having a problem with 1080p-24 NOT using a JVC RS1/HD1?


Josh,

I'm not sure if you were asking this after the latest firmware install or before??

In any event, I have not intalled the latest. I'm still on 1.01

I just got my Panasonic 1000U to accept 1080P/24. I had to go into the frame rate pannel > 60, and then select 24. After I did that, the 1080P-24 and 1080P-48 options under the output menu screen can be selected. (they were greyed out earlier). The 1080P-72 is still greyed out.

I just spent a few minutes watching a HD/DVD movie with 1080P-24 selected. I did not notice anything unusual and the judder test pattern works fine.

Whether or not the image is any better than 1080P-60, I really can't tell. They both look great to me.

Well OK then. Bugs:

When I had first used the VP as the “hub” and all sources were routed to it first (with Beta 1.01 firmware installed), then to my audio processor, I would have intermittent ‘chirps’, complete drop outs (very quick, but complete), and I also had a hell of a time when the audio format would change from stereo to surround or whatever else the disk or satellite feed was sending. I would have to cycle from one input and then back again to get the VP to sync up. From your post, are you telling me with all honesty that you are experiencing NO (RE: ZERO) bugs routing all your sources into the VP first??? If you are, you are the first person to report this and I’m happy for you. I however, had these problems and am anxiously waiting for DVDO to fix them. I would much prefer to use the VP as my hub so I can set up all inputs differently, and have better lip sync. So please tell me, what's your secret? OR, what am I doing wrong???

I am doing the exact same thing with the Marnantz as you are. I can select all video to be bypassed or processed, just like your 4806. When I refer to “minimal” it was in reference to the fact that if I choose to not bypass the Marnantz VP, all it does is convert S-vid, Coax, or Component to HDMI out. And you can then select I / P for the unit to deinterlace a 480i to 480P. It will not up convert. So, that is what I am referring to as “minimal” whereas most over AVR’s will not allow a complete video pass through and / or they also upconvert. And, not all will pass 1080P without issues.


I am having no problems now either. All my sources are HDMI running into the VP50 with an HDMI switch going into one input to switch between my HD TiVos. I also have an XA2 going to the VP50 along with DVI cable box using the optcial for audio. And also a PS3 going inot the VP50. I do have an HDMI splitter on the output of the VP50 sending audio to my Denon 3806 and video to my TV. I'm also splitting the output of my PS3 between the VP50 and 3806. This made it more stable with version 1.01 plus still allowed me to play SACD audio at 176khz pcm over HDMI. I'll have to take the splitter out and try it only going to the VP50 with v1.03 and see how that works.
But so far v1.03 has been rock solid for me. No sync problems with the PS3 any more. Proper 1080i output, not bobbed anymore. It has been perfect all around for me and my HD components.

In summary, it looks like some of us are doing all sources into the VP50 then out of the VP50 into an AV processor with the Video set to "pass through unchanged". We are using Denon AVP's, Marantz AVP's and Lexicon AVP's.

Some of us are using HDMI for A&V between the VP50 and the AVP, at least one of us (me) is just feeding the Audio (Toslinkout of VP50) to the AVP since my AVP is pre HDMI.

My sources that have HDMI outputs (two SA8300HD DVR's) are fed A&V over HDMI (VP firmware 1.03). I have no problem seeing all possible audio streams that my source devices deliver on the Toslink output of the VO50 in my configuration (No HD DVD, No Blu Ray, No PS3)

To me the logical configuration is to split the A/V at the VP50 and then feed the processed video directly to 1:1 mapped digital projector, and the encoded audio or whatever to a good audio processor.

Being a long time digital engineer I know that there is no issue if proper hardware is in the chain of a digital signal, that is, there should be no degradation whatsoever so passing the video (digital) to AVP set to leave the video alone should not be an issue..

I am having no problems now either. All my sources are HDMI running into the VP50 with an HDMI switch going into one input to switch between my HD TiVos. I also have an XA2 going to the VP50 along with DVI cable box using the optcial for audio. And also a PS3 going inot the VP50. I do have an HDMI splitter on the output of the VP50 sending audio to my Denon 3806 and video to my TV. I'm also splitting the output of my PS3 between the VP50 and 3806. This made it more stable with version 1.01 plus still allowed me to play SACD audio at 176khz pcm over HDMI. I'll have to take the splitter out and try it only going to the VP50 with v1.03 and see how that works.
But so far v1.03 has been rock solid for me. No sync problems with the PS3 any more. Proper 1080i output, not bobbed anymore. It has been perfect all around for me and my HD components.

I am very interested in hearing your results without using the splitter. I’ve been waiting for this latest firmware so that I can use the VP for an A/V hub again.

I can’t use the splitter without needing other ‘work arounds’.

This lip sync is killing me. Now that I notice it, I notice it bad and just can’t get it ‘right’…..

I’m a bit hesitant to download the latest firmware due to all these user reports of 1080P/24 problems. If it isn’t one thing with this hobby, it’s something else. I’m about ready to go back to my 25” boob tube, sell all this “stuff” and use the money to buy that Z06 I’ve been drooling over.

Re question on how is audio being run, With 1.03 I am running all audio (HDMI and Component as that is what my sources are) through the VP50. The HDMI audio is on the HDMI cable and the Component audio comes in on a S/PDIF digital input. Out of the VP50 I run a 35 foot HDMI cable with a HDMI to DVI adapter at the projector end as my PJ has no HDMI input only DVI. I then take an optical output of the VP50 and feed that to a Lexicon MC1 which handles all Audio but no switching.

I am in the market for a new Audio processor but want one with no video processing, like one of the Bryston units. Does anyone know of any other really good audio only processors? Must be able to handle all modern audio formats with optical, Coaxial and analog inputs and should be able to handle 8-10 channels of decoded inputs for passthrough to the amplifier subsystem.


Try the outlaw 990.

I am in the market for a new Audio processor but want one with no video processing, like one of the Bryston units. Does anyone know of any other really good audio only processors? Must be able to handle all modern audio formats with optical, Coaxial and analog inputs and should be able to handle 8-10 channels of decoded inputs for passthrough to the amplifier subsystem.

EXACTLY what I am looking for!
Just audio, zero video processing.
After all, I have a VP for video. ;)
It is irritating to buy a Surround Processor that has video inputs that will never be used.
And, besides, I am having to pay extra for the "privilege" of having video processes built in. :mad:

Right, but most Audio processors are fancy enough that a onscreen menu is required and that means at least some simple video. I like the outlaw 990 because it has DVI (Which I will never use) but it doesnt upconvert or do anything with it just a 2X1 switcher. The composite video (or component I think) are used for either basic switching or in my case, for the onscreen setup.

Plus the Outlaw sounds great!

Sorry Jon, I didn't mean no OSD for the audio processor.
It is, of course, necessary. :o

mdrew,
Who doesn't drool for a Z06...but tell me, how often could you drive it in Alaska? :eek:
I'm in Oregon and am only able to drive my XLR 6 months a year. :(

Does the 990 process uncompressed Multi Channel PCM from BR and HD players? Unless it has HDMI, it can not.

Well OK then. Bugs:
(clip)...... From your post, are you telling me with all honesty that you are experiencing NO (RE: ZERO) bugs routing all your sources into the VP first??? If you are, you are the first person to report this and I’m happy for you. I however, had these problems and am anxiously waiting for DVDO to fix them. I would much prefer to use the VP as my hub so I can set up all inputs differently, and have better lip sync. So please tell me, what's your secret? OR, what am I doing wrong???


Nope - I thought you were referring to "bugs" in the AVR, not the VP50. You very clearly (IMO) linked the two in the same sentence: Most all of the receivers process HDMI audio, but none without their own bugs. I simply misunderstood your comment apparently. I will be the 1st to stand at your side and proclaim the "bugs" in the VP50 part of the chain. But that wasn't my take on what you were saying and why I suggested the alternate routing. I agree the VP50 had and still has various audio and other bugs. I simply didn't agree that the bugs were in the AVR part of the equation. Simple misunderstanding. Apologies.

"The Forced 3:2 and Forced 2:2 modes must have a 'high quality' source to initially lock or to re-lock on to after a cadence disruption. The forced cadence modes are definitely useful for watching a movie from start to finish and if you're not going to be skipping around a lot between chapters. (Pausing and then restarting could sometimes also be a problem.With most film content where you just want to watch the movie, they work very well."
............................
I chopped up the DVDO explaination a tiny bit to show what I'm not understanding.
What happens to "Forced" 3:2 if for instance one pauses in the middle of the film, won't it (Forced 3:2-2:2) do it's thing once again if the Play button is pushed a second time ?

I am very interested in hearing your results without using the splitter. I’ve been waiting for this latest firmware so that I can use the VP for an A/V hub again.

I can’t use the splitter without needing other ‘work arounds’.

This lip sync is killing me. Now that I notice it, I notice it bad and just can’t get it ‘right’…..

I’m a bit hesitant to download the latest firmware due to all these user reports of 1080P/24 problems. If it isn’t one thing with this hobby, it’s something else. I’m about ready to go back to my 25” boob tube, sell all this “stuff” and use the money to buy that Z06 I’ve been drooling over.

I just tried the PS3 without the HDMI splitter and ran in directly into the VP50. It's working great now. The audio format doesn't get stuck. It changes like it's supposed to now. The only thing I did notice was that it won't pass the 176khz pcm stereo audio for SACD through the VP50. It will still pass the 88Khz mutichannel pcm SACD audio. I'll put my HDMI splitter back on just so I can get the higher resolution audio from SACDs but with this v1.03 firmware it's a huge improvement with the PS3. Everything changes as it should and quickly without losing sync.

Quick Vp50 question for a rookie. On the lipsync adjustment the manual is very unclear on the topic, useless imho. Do negative numbers increase the audio delay or speed up the audio? Really hard to figure out with the dialog of most programs. Why is the negative limited to -56 and positive goes up to =200. :rolleyes:

I had an odd thing happen last night. Using a PS3@1080p>3806>VP50@1080i>Mits RPTV via HDMI. When booting up the PS3 everything looks good. Insert the disc and when it gets to the FBI screen it's in a 4x3 image size and only about 1/4 of the total image, the upper left, happened on two different discs. After re-booting the PS3 a few times and still having the problem I starting switching HDMI inputs on the VP50. PS3 is on Input 4, switching from 4 to 1 and then back fixed the problem. I had only played two discs on the PS3 before doing the 1.3FW on the VP50, but I never observed that behavior on 1.0FW.

Any ideas on what may be causing the problem?

Quick Vp50 question for a rookie. On the lipsync adjustment the manual is very unclear on the topic, useless imho. Do negative numbers increase the audio delay or speed up the audio? Really hard to figure out with the dialog of most programs. Why is the negative limited to -56 and positive goes up to +200. :rolleyes:I believe this was explained by somenone as: The maximum amount of negative delay amounts is equal to the video delay as introduced by the VP50, hence the amount should be different depending on chosen options. Zero is an amount of delay that DVDO adds to audio to get the audio in sync with video. So, effectively, if you select -56 (in your case) there should be no audio delay.

I had an odd thing happen last night. Using a PS3@1080p>3806>VP50@1080i>Mits RPTV via HDMI. When booting up the PS3 everything looks good. Insert the disc and when it gets to the FBI screen it's in a 4x3 image size and only about 1/4 of the total image, the upper left, happened on two different discs. After re-booting the PS3 a few times and still having the problem I starting switching HDMI inputs on the VP50. PS3 is on Input 4, switching from 4 to 1 and then back fixed the problem. I had only played two discs on the PS3 before doing the 1.3FW on the VP50, but I never observed that behavior on 1.0FW.

Any ideas on what may be causing the problem?

I watched 3 BD movies last night and this morning with the PS3 and on the thrid one I had the exact same thing happen as you described when the disc first started playing. I changed inputs and back and the picture was fine. So far this is the only glitch I've noticed but it's still performing 100% better than with v1.01.

Quick Vp50 question for a rookie. On the lipsync adjustment the manual is very unclear on the topic, useless imho. Do negative numbers increase the audio delay or speed up the audio? Really hard to figure out with the dialog of most programs. Why is the negative limited to -56 and positive goes up to =200. :rolleyes:

"0" is the automatic default amount of delay for whatever the source is you're feeding it. If you drag the slider all the way down to the bottom of the negative scale, this will give you no delay at all. If -56 is as far as it goes, that means that "0" is adding 56ms of delay automatically to that source. If you increase into the positive range, add whatever number you select to 56 to get the actual time difference.

Note that the amount of automatic delay will vary depending on the source and the amount of processing that the VP50 has to do. If you feed it a 1080i signal and it just has to deinterlace to 1080p with no scaling, you'll get one delay. If the VP50 has to both deinterlace and scale, you'll get another number because those functions take longer.

Josh,

I'm not sure if you were asking this after the latest firmware install or before??

In any event, I have not intalled the latest. I'm still on 1.01

I just got my Panasonic 1000U to accept 1080P/24. I had to go into the frame rate pannel > 60, and then select 24. After I did that, the 1080P-24 and 1080P-48 options under the output menu screen can be selected. (they were greyed out earlier). The 1080P-72 is still greyed out.

I just spent a few minutes watching a HD/DVD movie with 1080P-24 selected. I did not notice anything unusual and the judder test pattern works fine.

Whether or not the image is any better than 1080P-60, I really can't tell. They both look great to me.

I need to add to my previous posting.

I have done nothing but cycle my theater equipment on and off a few times, but have done no other settings changes to the projector since I posted last.

Now when I pull up the output set menu > Format – all 1080P options are available for selection. I don't know why I could only select 1080P/24 or 60 before. Maybe an HDMI thing, I don't know.....

When I pull up the frame rate menu, I can not select 24, 25 or 50Hz. All I can select is the 60Hz option. In the 60Hz sub menu, I can select 24 or 48 only. 60 and 72 are grey.

I’m a complete newb at this, so please bare with the stupid question……

I got to playing with these setting a bit while watching MI 2 in HD/DVD (Toshiba X1 with latest firmware).

I have the format set to 1080P/24. On the opening scene when the camera rolls over the buildings in Oz, I noticed a marked improvement with 60Hz / 48 selected. 60Hz / 24 was almost jumpy?? I don’t know how to explain what I saw other than it just didn’t not seam to be as smooth. The Judder test bar is smooth with both 24 and 48, but moved across the screne much faster at 48. It may be a tad bit smoother too.

What exactly am I changing in the frame rate menu?? How does the frame rate work with the format options??

I just tried the PS3 without the HDMI splitter and ran in directly into the VP50. It's working great now. The audio format doesn't get stuck. It changes like it's supposed to now. The only thing I did notice was that it won't pass the 176khz pcm stereo audio for SACD through the VP50. It will still pass the 88Khz mutichannel pcm SACD audio. I'll put my HDMI splitter back on just so I can get the higher resolution audio from SACDs but with this v1.03 firmware it's a huge improvement with the PS3. Everything changes as it should and quickly without losing sync.


thank you. that's good to hear. I'm tempted to try the firmware but hesitant with the 1080P/24 issues being reported.

I watched 3 BD movies last night and this morning with the PS3 and on the thrid one I had the exact same thing happen as you described when the disc first started playing. I changed inputs and back and the picture was fine. So far this is the only glitch I've noticed but it's still performing 100% better than with v1.01.
Thanks, my first inclination was that something was "broke" with either the PS3 or the VP50, so thanks for confirming it's not just me. Did you try going to the PS3 menu? When I tried it would just give me a white line across the center of the 4x3 image, that's what led me to think something was wrong with the PS3.

Am I mistaken in thinking that there was mention awhile back of one of the HDMI inputs on the VP50 having some peculiarities about, that it would sometimes do funky things, different than the other inputs?

Well, after downloading 1.03 onto the vp50 all I could get out of it was STUTTER CITY.
Everything was ok before the update using the original software.

Going from HDA1 to vp to sony g70. Get the same problem from my sdi modded RP91.

Looks like the vp can't do 720p at 72hz. Shame.

I chopped up the DVDO explaination a tiny bit to show what I'm not understanding.
What happens to "Forced" 3:2 if for instance one pauses in the middle of the film, won't it (Forced 3:2-2:2) do it's thing once again if the Play button is pushed a second time ?

I had asked Dale for the Forced 3:2 mode a long time ago for HD DVD and Blu-ray. The studio titles on both formats do not contain bad edits since they are sourced from 24p content. In the auto mode, the VP50 drops to video from time to time to avoid deinterlacing artifacts. There may not actually be a bad edit, but it drops because it thinks there might be. This is by design. In forced 3:2 mode there is no bad edit detection. When it does encounter a real bad edit, it recovers fast. This is like a flag-reader, but built into an external box. This is important for 24, 48 and 72 Hz playback. I have forced 3:2 set for both HD DVD and BD.

The forced 2:2 is to replace the odd and even modes. Now it figures it out. If you live in a PAL country watching film DVDs, then you want to use the force 2:2 mode.

To answer your question, yes, it will re-lock, but it may take a moment and you may see slight coming after you press play again.

I even use force 3:2 mode on DVDs, if I am watching feature films. If I watch TV shows on DVD, then i use auto.

1.03 is been pretty stable, except for the audio/video drop outs. I get these at least once per film. My display will report no signal and then I see it relock and the curtain in the VP50 open.

Thank you Stacy, your explanation makes the 1.03 firmware's new "forced" mode options clear to me now.

well, at least the 1.01 is watchable now. When I first started Scorpian King there were some nasty lip sync issues (no audio going thru VP50) but they seemed to straighten out.

Anybody else have stuttering problems with 1.03?

I couldn't get it to work right with any of the deinterlacing modes.

Did this update fix the "LINES" issue? (the one with all the strange lines going all across the screen till you power it down (remove the plug) and letting it relax for an hour before plugging it back in???? If not, I will not waste my time.

"0" is the automatic default amount of delay for whatever the source is you're feeding it. If you drag the slider all the way down to the bottom of the negative scale, this will give you no delay at all. If -56 is as far as it goes, that means that "0" is adding 56ms of delay automatically to that source. If you increase into the positive range, add whatever number you select to 56 to get the actual time difference.

Note that the amount of automatic delay will vary depending on the source and the amount of processing that the VP50 has to do. If you feed it a 1080i signal and it just has to deinterlace to 1080p with no scaling, you'll get one delay. If the VP50 has to both deinterlace and scale, you'll get another number because those functions take longer.

Joshua,

Thank you for a clear and concise answer. Perhaps you should re-write the vp-50 manual, like I said in my post DVDO's efforts are cryptic at best in most areas. Is it possible to save the "delay" of audio under the "presets" along with video, input, output, etc information? I haven't really dug that deeply yet.

Thanks,

Glenn

If you adjust the audio delay on an input, say HDMI 1, when the input signal is 480i, you will not change how much audio delay the VP50 adds when the input signal is 480p, 720p or 1080i. Any change that you make is automatically saved into a profile, and you have a profile for each format that is accepted on each input (so in addition to the above previously mentioned resolutions, you also have profiles for 576i, 576p, 720p-50, 1080i-60, 1080p-24, 1080p-50, 1080p-60, VGA@60Hz, and SXGA@60Hz on the HDMI inputs).

"0" is the automatic default amount of delay for whatever the source is you're feeding it. If you drag the slider all the way down to the bottom of the negative scale, this will give you no delay at all. If -56 is as far as it goes, that means that "0" is adding 56ms of delay automatically to that source. If you increase into the positive range, add whatever number you select to 56 to get the actual time difference.

Note that the amount of automatic delay will vary depending on the source and the amount of processing that the VP50 has to do. If you feed it a 1080i signal and it just has to deinterlace to 1080p with no scaling, you'll get one delay. If the VP50 has to both deinterlace and scale, you'll get another number because those functions take longer.

One other variable is the output framerate.

Well, after downloading 1.03 onto the vp50 all I could get out of it was STUTTER CITY.
Everything was ok before the update using the original software.

Going from HDA1 to vp to sony g70. Get the same problem from my sdi modded RP91.

Looks like the vp can't do 720p at 72hz. Shame.

Did you only try 720p@72, or did you also try 720p@60 (with version 1.03)?

Did this update fix the "LINES" issue? (the one with all the strange lines going all across the screen till you power it down (remove the plug) and letting it relax for an hour before plugging it back in???? If not, I will not waste my time.

I am fairly sure that our tech support team determined that your issue was related to hardware. Did you send in your VP50?

I had asked Dale for the Forced 3:2 mode a long time ago for HD DVD and Blu-ray. The studio titles on both formats do not contain bad edits since they are sourced from 24p content. In the auto mode, the VP50 drops to video from time to time to avoid deinterlacing artifacts. There may not actually be a bad edit, but it drops because it thinks there might be. This is by design. In forced 3:2 mode there is no bad edit detection. When it does encounter a real bad edit, it recovers fast. This is like a flag-reader, but built into an external box. This is important for 24, 48 and 72 Hz playback. I have forced 3:2 set for both HD DVD and BD.


So will using Forced 3:2 resolve the issues that RS1, Pearl, and Benq users have reported with 24p output?

My RS1 is supposed to be delivered on Wed!

1.03 is been pretty stable, except for the audio/video drop outs.

A stirring endorsement, indeed, of a 4th generation (5th?...not sure) product that costs $3000 and suffers through on-going problems both new and pre-existing from its predecessors. It now appears to be morphing into a Microsoft business model of endless fixes (or promised "fixes") that either don't "fix" and/or add new issues needing to be fixed themselves or require labyrinthine processes of hard resets, input switching and such to get it to work as basically intended and move into the age of movies with actual sound. Very impressive indeed when attempting to demonstrate your "high end" theater system to visitors.

Maybe I expected too much from such a sophisticated device, but then the marketing provided me those expectations. I can understand how much of this is difficult, to say the least, but if you can't really do it, then don't claim you can. The company has had a great upgrade program, but the value of the upgrade can be debated when matched with the problems new and old. Now, the company is said to be headed in an entirely new direction. It might be wise for me to do the same. I think the VP50 will be my personal last stop on this upgrade train. Your mileage and opinions may vary of course. Not trying to inflame or incite, I am just growing tired of the struggle.

Did you only try 720p@72, or did you also try 720p@60 (with version 1.03)?

720p@60 has never looked better on my display.
No stuttering in the slightest.
Watched "Planet Earth" on Dish HD tonite....WOW! :cool:

Oh, and thanx for the great explanation of the Forced modes, Stacey. :)

......Maybe I expected too much from such a sophisticated device, but then the marketing provided me those expectations. I can understand how much of this is difficult, to say the least, but if you can't really do it, then don't claim you can. The company has had a great upgrade program, but the value of the upgrade can be debated when matched with the problems new and old. Now, the company is said to be headed in an entirely new direction. It might be wise for me to do the same. I think the VP50 will be my personal last stop on this upgrade train. Your mileage and opinions may vary of course. Not trying to inflame or incite, I am just growing tired of the struggle.Maybe we all are expecting too much. If only there was one VP on the market offering current expected performance in terms of the features that the VP50 was/is advertised to do, there would be somewhere else to go. Alas, other VPs and gadgets like Twin tuner PVRs and HD Media Players for example are suffering from the same malaise. Was it better in the days when VPs cost $10K and up? Did these higher prices offer margins that would allow better product development? Is the software these days written by inexperienced programmers who have only ever learned to write spaghetti code?

Hey Josh, thanks for the reply,

I only did 72hz cause that is the only framerate that Ken W set my G70 up with. I tried Auto, Film, 3:2 and 2:2 and all of them stuttered violently.

I can only repeat it the 1.03 firmware brought for me only degradations. A most important studderfree rendition is not possible thereby. with the 1.01 firmware that works much better if also not perfect. Go from Blu ray BD-P1000 or Toshiba HD-DVD to the VP50 and than into Sony VW50. Now i have the 1.01 firmware in use the 1.03 is useless for me

Please debug the firmware.

stephan

Does this updates fix the issue with 1080i output and underscan cropping off part of the image?

using 1.03 in german pal systems will cause frame drops during watching the movies

i tried following

SDI(576i50) input and output 1080p60(59,94)
this will cause the system to drop random pictures
i also tried 576p output and all deinterlacer options

i g back to the 1.01 software and the system is performing much better

the frame drop is not is i use my ps3 with 1080p60 and output 1080p60

i think there is a bug in the deinterlacing routine with has random hicks to drop frames.

@josh: i hope you will fix this issues soon because other improvements are great (IR Repeat fix and menu bug fix)

The new firmware 1.03 has only made things worse for me. From my Panasonic BDP10 (1080i 60) via VP50 to a Yamaha DPX1200 everything was smooth in 48p output with 1.01. No stutter and the IVT worked very well. But now I have this stuttering.

@Josh: Please fix this issue as soon as possible, because 1.03 is pretty useless with this stuttering!

No audio dropouts or stuttering for me with v1.03.

"0" is the automatic default amount of delay for whatever the source is you're feeding it. If you drag the slider all the way down to the bottom of the negative scale, this will give you no delay at all. If -56 is as far as it goes, that means that "0" is adding 56ms of delay automatically to that source. If you increase into the positive range, add whatever number you select to 56 to get the actual time difference.



Cool - didn't realize the VP would do what is effectively "undelay" - I may have to set up a spl memory just for my local CBS affiliate, who seems totally unable to get their audio in synch with their HD signal. Positive values didn't help; I didn't even try to go negative. Duh.

Sorry to hear about 1.03; since 1.01 fixed my audio bug, think I'll pass on the latest greatest upgrade. But really appreciate the feedback here, since it saves me an hour's worth of upgrade and downgrade. ;)

OK... I think we all agree on some basic points:

1) v1.03 software may have fixed some minor issues but has not even come close when considering the big picture

2) This is an expensive box that isn't living up to basic expectations when you compare the performace to the marketing materials and factor in the missing/broken features that likely got most of us to pull out our cheque books.

I've contacted DVDO personally and I've followed the posts from "Josh" in this forum. Nothing that has come from either source has filled me with confidence. What make me furious is that my calls to DVDO have left me with the impression that I'm the first person to find these problems!

(tearing, shuddering, audio dropout, menu lockups, forced resets... need I go on?)

Yet, by simply reading this forum, it's VERY clear to me that MANY people are reproducing the same issues to the letter in their setups and are also losing patience with the product and the manufacturer.

JOSH... Who is the correct person to contact at DVDO in order to deal with these issues? I'll call them... I want to know that DVDO knows that the VP50 is lame and consumer confidence/patience with it is gone. I want to know EXACTLY what issues are being tracked and corrected by the engineering team and when we can see results. This 4-month software cycle that yeilds 2 steps forward and 3 steps back is unacceptable... How about a commitment to address specific problems by specific dates so your customers know they're not being left out to dry?

I apologize for ranting and forgive me if I'm wrong here... but I don't think I'm speaking only for myself.

Joshua,

Thank you for a clear and concise answer. Perhaps you should re-write the vp-50 manual, like I said in my post DVDO's efforts are cryptic at best in most areas.

If DVDO were paying, I'd be happy to oblige. :D

With a great many of the products discussed in these forums, an Engineer-to-English translation could greatly improve their owners' manuals.

For me 1.03 was all steps forward no steps back. This release, in my usage, seems solid in the few days I've used it. i'm extremely pleased with it. But I'm also not using 1080P24 output, I'm only using 1080i output with it. Hopefully the 1080P60 output will be just as stable since I'll be replacing my DLP set with one that takes 1080P600 and has LED lighting.

I'll be replacing my DLP set with one that takes 1080P600 and has LED lighting.

Hmmm....I read a review, awhile back, that stated this set has uneven brightness. :(

I want to know EXACTLY what issues are being tracked and corrected by the engineering team and when we can see results. This 4-month software cycle that yields 2 steps forward and 3 steps back is unacceptable... How about a commitment to address specific problems by specific dates so your customers know they're not being left out to dry?For me, the betas haven't introduced significant new problems, and the first one fixed my audio dropouts, but they also don't address the other rather simple problems that are important to me. Users clearly have are lots of different concerns, but progress does seem neglectfully slow.

On the upside, these releases are betas. They don't guarantee freedom from bugs. On the downside, there is no sufficiently good non-beta release either, so users really have no good options if they are running into bugs or unimplemented features.

I know I'll miss fubarduck (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10223740&&#post10223740). One fewer person publicly clamoring for the features gamers need makes me that much lonelier here. I'm honestly looking into other options at this point, too. After six months, I no longer have any reason to believe DVDO will ever address the near-trivial changes needed to allow a quality gaming experience with the VP50.

I had asked Dale for the Forced 3:2 mode a long time ago for HD DVD and Blu-ray. The studio titles on both formats do not contain bad edits since they are sourced from 24p content. In the auto mode, the VP50 drops to video from time to time to avoid deinterlacing artifacts. There may not actually be a bad edit, but it drops because it thinks there might be. This is by design. In forced 3:2 mode there is no bad edit detection. When it does encounter a real bad edit, it recovers fast. This is like a flag-reader, but built into an external box. This is important for 24, 48 and 72 Hz playback. I have forced 3:2 set for both HD DVD and BD.

The forced 2:2 is to replace the odd and even modes. Now it figures it out. If you live in a PAL country watching film DVDs, then you want to use the force 2:2 mode.

To answer your question, yes, it will re-lock, but it may take a moment and you may see slight coming after you press play again.

I even use force 3:2 mode on DVDs, if I am watching feature films. If I watch TV shows on DVD, then i use auto.

1.03 is been pretty stable, except for the audio/video drop outs. I get these at least once per film. My display will report no signal and then I see it relock and the curtain in the VP50 open.

Maybe Dale can clarify something for me . If we select a 48Hz or 72Hz Frame Rate , are we not generating 2:2 and 3:3 video ? If so , what would be the conflict of selecting "Forced 3:2" ?

Scott.... :confused:

are we not generating 2:2 and 3:3 video ?

You are, but you might not always generate it from the original 24 and that is where the forced 3:2 mode comes in. It forces 3:2 lock on the input. The 24, 48 and 72 is forced on output.

To get the best 24, 48 and 72 out, you need to lock on the original 24 in. When you drop out of lock (lose the 3:2 pattern), you are now interpolating isntead of using the original.

OK... I think we all agree on some basic points:

1) v1.03 software may have fixed some minor issues but has not even come close when considering the big picture

2) This is an expensive box that isn't living up to basic expectations when you compare the performace to the marketing materials and factor in the missing/broken features that likely got most of us to pull out our cheque books.

I've contacted DVDO personally and I've followed the posts from "Josh" in this forum. Nothing that has come from either source has filled me with confidence. What make me furious is that my calls to DVDO have left me with the impression that I'm the first person to find these problems!

(tearing, shuddering, audio dropout, menu lockups, forced resets... need I go on?)

Yet, by simply reading this forum, it's VERY clear to me that MANY people are reproducing the same issues to the letter in their setups and are also losing patience with the product and the manufacturer.

JOSH... Who is the correct person to contact at DVDO in order to deal with these issues? I'll call them... I want to know that DVDO knows that the VP50 is lame and consumer confidence/patience with it is gone. I want to know EXACTLY what issues are being tracked and corrected by the engineering team and when we can see results. This 4-month software cycle that yeilds 2 steps forward and 3 steps back is unacceptable... How about a commitment to address specific problems by specific dates so your customers know they're not being left out to dry?

I apologize for ranting and forgive me if I'm wrong here... but I don't think I'm speaking only for myself.

Hi Kartman & all VP50 owners,

I have exactly the same problems and I need to "total" reset my VP50 at least every 2 weeks because of these problems which appear after a while like tearing, shuddering, audio dropout, menu lockups, forced resets... etc. !!!

On the one hand, the VP50 really does a great picture, but on the other side there are these problems which bother me a lot. It is not acceptable for a device in this premium price segment. The target group of scalers and video processors is relatively small, and thus DVDO should be more interessted in satisfaction of their existing customers. Seems to be that DVDO, respectively Anchor Bays reputation is turning to an negative image, which I can see in our forums in Germany & Switzerland.

All the big promises in the run-up period of the VP50 release like programmable chipset, de-noiser software update and so go on. Just ********!

Crystallio, respectivly Magic Pixel Systems provides updates continiously all 3-4 weeks in average. Thats an adequate service! I am sure, that I will switch to a CII if nothing changes soon at Anchor Bay. Then I sell my VP50 at eBay - who cares.

Greets from Switzerland,
Jens

You are, but you might not always generate it from the original 24 and that is where the forced 3:2 mode comes in. It forces 3:2 lock on the input. The 24, 48 and 72 is forced on output.

To get the best 24, 48 and 72 out, you need to lock on the original 24 in. When you drop out of lock (lose the 3:2 pattern), you are now interpolating instead of using the original.

Ok....????
Do you mean locking on the "raw" Input i.e.480i/1080i or Input after de-interlacing which is where I thought 3:2 was being performed . If we Lock the Input at 3:2 and then set the Frame Rate to 48Hz , can you describe what actually is taking place in the VP between Input and Output ?

Scott................. :confused:

I am fairly sure that our tech support team determined that your issue was related to hardware. Did you send in your VP50?

I was not the only one with this problem. I know that someone else here sent thier unit back to DVDO (I did not), I was hoping a fix was found because I hate to power down my VP50 because the problems starts all over till I go through a ordeal to turn on each item in a specific order.

can someone explain to me why there is an option to select input color space?
i would assume that is set by the source and non-negotiable.....?
or does the vp50 negotiate a list of possible input color spaces with the source?

in any case, i'm trying to decide what is being output from sigma 8620x chips used in network media players.

i have one that is outputting (according to the vp50) "YCbCr 4:4:4" over hdmi,
and another brand (same sigma chip) that the vp50 says is sending "RBG" over hdmi and "YPbPr" over component.

anyone understand why the variation?
is there a 'best' option here?

thx

edit: let me add one more question? what should the vp50 output color space be set to feeding a JVC LCoS hdtv?

I was not the only one with this problem. I know that someone else here sent thier unit back to DVDO (I did not), I was hoping a fix was found because I hate to power down my VP50 because the problems starts all over till I
go through a ordeal to turn on each item in a specific order.


That would be me. They replaced my unit with a brand spanking new one with the proper power supply and the service was very fast. DVDO said they gave my defective unit to their chip guys to go over with the scope. I doubt I'll know what was wrong.

I've loaded 1.03, but yet to try it as my Ruby was sent to Sony for many ticking noise before one ping only. The bonus was also to fix my MC close to perfection. It came back last week. The tech at Sony Hawaii checked the MC but was not satisfied and sent it back to Laredo. I like what he did for setting a higher standard.

I'll post again if a cold power on from my conditioner will produce the same fuzzy picture as my old unit with the newer firmware soon.

That would be me. They replaced my unit with a brand spanking new one with the proper power supply and the service was very fast. DVDO said they gave my defective unit to their chip guys to go over with the scope. I doubt I'll know what was wrong.

I've loaded 1.03, but yet to try it as my Ruby was sent to Sony for many ticking noise before one ping only. The bonus was also to fix my MC close to perfection. It came back last week. The tech at Sony Hawaii checked the MC but was not satisfied and sent it back to Laredo. I like what he did for setting a higher standard.

I'll post again if a cold power on from my conditioner will produce the same fuzzy picture as my old unit with the newer firmware soon.

Makes me think that I should RMA mine if this solved your problem. I hope that using my VP50 connected to a Gefen splitter (with audio) is not causing the problem.

vfrjim,

I bet the original 1.0 will fix it. Mine was fine with 1.0, but then no Prep or other benefits. I'll test as soon as I get my projector back. :D

vfrjim,

I bet the original 1.0 will fix it. Mine was fine with 1.0, but then no Prep or other benefits. I'll test as soon as I get my projector back. :D


Mine did it with both 1.0 and 1.01 :(

Let's hope that they can shorten the interval between 1.01 and 1.03 updates (and get it right this time). I expected this unit to be the glue in my HT setup not the most disappointing choice I made when selecting my hardware....
Same here. I am very disappointed by the unsatisfying long update cycles and the recurrent bugs of the VP50 software especially regarding 1080p/24.
Please DVDO restore our confidence in Your product !

Is anyone that is having a problem with 1080p-24 NOT using a JVC RS1/HD1?

I have interesting news concerning the 24p problem with v1.03 and several RS1/HD1 (and also other) projectors.

Aaron from DVDO asked my to try the PREP feature, so I reinstalled v1.03 to test some things. But PREP did not do anything good, and the stutter stayed. I noticed that the RS1 does blank for two seconds when the input frequency is changed, unfortunately it does not give detailed information on the input signal. So I used the blanking as a marker.

My setup features a Toshiba E1 (the European A2) and a PS3. Both are connected to the VP50 via HDMI. Both show the same symptoms. Although the Thoshiba outputs 1080 60i, the results were the same.

I tried different combinations of Framerates, but as soon as I selected 24p, the stutter came back.

I then decided to try the unlocked mode and set the frequence to 23,98. The stutter was gone! But - sad to say - it came back. Periodicaly, but it changed every 2 oder 3 minutes and disappeared seconds later. The output from the RS1 was stable all the time, no resyncs due to changing input frequencies. As the picture was good from time to time and as I could "reset" it pause/play sometimes, my hint is that this stutter is a VP50 problem. The sync to the RS1 has been the same all the time and this feature was (with a different bug) "working" in v1.01.

I´d love to see some reponse from DVDO, as I really like the machine, but in this state, all it´s good for is switching inputs. Sad.

Regards
Chris

I had exactly the same result with PS3 and XE1 connected to Pioneer PDP-507XA (http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/62/63/413/PDP-507XA/index.html) via VP50 (locked 24Hz and unlocked 23.98Hz 1080p output). I too hope this will be fixed soon.

Edit: with v1.03 (and atleast the locked 24hz stutter with v1.01, didn't test unlocked 23.98Hz with that).

If we Lock the Input at 3:2 and then set the Frame Rate to 48Hz , can you describe what actually is taking place in the VP between Input and Output ?

Scott,

The deinterlacing mode is based on the interlaced input. The VP50 has to find the original 2-3 pattern within the 1080i/480i image. Because of bad sources like TV shows, music videos, etc..., it has to always watch out for broken cadence patterns and drop to video to avoid deinterlacing artifcats. This means even non-broken sources can trip up this detection.

If you are outputting 48 Hz and you switch into video deinterlacing, you will see a studder in the video until it re-locks onto the sources 2-3 pattern. What forced 3:2 mode does is not drop the lock. This prevents the studder by not going into video deinterlacing.

The forced 3:2 mode turns off all of the fancy progressive detection and bad edit detection and simply finds the 2-3 pattern and assumes it is 100% perfect, which it is for HD DVD and BD on major titles. The Discovery Atlas stuff, however, is not. It is bad edit city, so use auto mode on those HD DVD and BD programs and run at 60 Hz output.

If you want to see some examples of it dropping into video mode, when there are no problems, you can use the Star Wars DVDs or AVIA Pro. Watch the opening credit crawl on the Star Wars DVDs in auto vs. forced 3:2. Same with the 3:2 zone plate on AVIA Pro. When the zone plate starts moving in the vertical direction, you will see it lose lock at certain speeds in auto mode. In the forced 3:2 mode, it never drops.

Both of the sequences above contain clean 2-3 patterns but the auto mode fears there might be a problem so it drops to video deinterlacing here and there to be safe. Of course these scenes make it obvious when you drop while many other scenes do not, unless you are trying to output 24, 48 or 72 Hz.

Deinterlacing is an art as much as a science. There is no perfect algorithm, so you must make trade-offs.

A few quick questions.

1) Are there issues with audio sync and were they fixed with firmware? If this was discussed earlier in this thread, a link is a good enough answer.

2) Is anybody using the VP50 with the JVC RS1? Does the VP50 offer any help in dealing with the supposedly oversaturated colours of the RS1?

3) Is anybody using the VP50 with either of the Epson 1080 or Mitsubishi HC5000? If so, how do you like it?

:cool:

Re Audio sync, Unfortunately the answer seems to be "It depends". In my system 1.03 fixed all Audio drop issues. I assume by audio sync you really mean audio drop. Others have reported some problems still with 1.03 and audio issues.


So I guess it depends on your equipment configuration. I do get audio drop with my cable DVR's, but I do believe it is the cable DVR that is the problem not the VP50.

Ok, fair enough. Thanks :) I'll see if anybody else has any thoughts.

Scott,

The deinterlacing mode is based on the interlaced input. The VP50 has to find the original 2-3 pattern within the 1080i/480i image. Because of bad sources like TV shows, music videos, etc..., it has to always watch out for broken cadence patterns and drop to video to avoid deinterlacing artifcats. This means even non-broken sources can trip up this detection.

If you are outputting 48 Hz and you switch into video deinterlacing, you will see a studder in the video until it re-locks onto the sources 2-3 pattern. What forced 3:2 mode does is not drop the lock. This prevents the studder by not going into video deinterlacing.

The forced 3:2 mode turns off all of the fancy progressive detection and bad edit detection and simply finds the 2-3 pattern and assumes it is 100% perfect, which it is for HD DVD and BD on major titles. The Discovery Atlas stuff, however, is not. It is bad edit city, so use auto mode on those HD DVD and BD programs and run at 60 Hz output.

If you want to see some examples of it dropping into video mode, when there are no problems, you can use the Star Wars DVDs or AVIA Pro. Watch the opening credit crawl on the Star Wars DVDs in auto vs. forced 3:2. Same with the 3:2 zone plate on AVIA Pro. When the zone plate starts moving in the vertical direction, you will see it lose lock at certain speeds in auto mode. In the forced 3:2 mode, it never drops.

Both of the sequences above contain clean 2-3 patterns but the auto mode fears there might be a problem so it drops to video deinterlacing here and there to be safe. Of course these scenes make it obvious when you drop while many other scenes do not, unless you are trying to output 24, 48 or 72 Hz.

Deinterlacing is an art as much as a science. There is no perfect algorithm, so you must make trade-offs.


Thanks Stacey ,

I really appreciate you taking the time to explain this stuff . It can be a little intimidating at times :eek:

Scott............... :)

Hey all,

It seems that this thread is getting a little out of control... Let me try to bring a little order to this thread (so that DVDO/Anchor Bay/Josh - doesn't have to) by suggesting some terminology and best practices...


Terminology to use when describing your problem(s):

Total Loss of Audio - an event where by a user action (like switching inputs), or a content event (like the DD 5.1 movie audio coming on after a 2-CH PCM commercial) causes the audio throught the iScan to stop dead - requiring either a power cycle or HDMI input switch. (This has not been reported to be adressed as of yet by any version of VP50 firmware, but reports I've seen of this have been limited to two models of cable box - and then only very, very infrequently).

Audio Drop-out - an event where the audio stops for a short period mid-content and recovers within a second or two at the most without any user intervention. (FYI - this was adressed in VP50 v1.01)

Audio "Motorboating" - and event where after a change in content (again like the DD 5.1 movie coming back on after a 2-CH PCM commercial) wherre the audio mode of the stream does not match the data causing compressed audio to be presented as PCM to the presentation device. This is a continuous loud static-like noise, which requires a user action like a power-cycle or switching the HDMI input to fix. (again, FYI - this was adressed in VP50 v1.01)

Audio Stuttering - a continuous sound that over-lays the content audio (so you can still hear the audio under the noise). This is an infrequently reported problem (I've only read one occurence of this on this board, with only one source) - as such, I don't think DVDO can even replicate this problem, let alone adress it in a release as of yet.

Video Tearing - this is a frame-rate related issue, which is caused by an output stage of a video processor changing the frame that it is drawing, but mid-frame (instead of between frames). This is very obvious, as half of the image (usually the top) is one thing and the other half (usually the bottom) is something else. I've read of a few instances where this is happening in the last page or two of this thread, as such it seems to coincide with the VP50 v1.03 software, and may have something to do with the new Forced 3:2 and Forced 2:2 modes.

Video Judder - This is caused by either frames being repeated or completely dropped by the video processor. This presents a "jerky" motion to the image, but does not otherwise corrupt the image. I've read several instances where this is happening in the last page or two of this thread, as such it also seems to coincide with the VP50 v1.03 software, and may also have something to do with the new Forced 3:2 and Forced 2:2 mode implementation.


Best practices:

For Deinterlacing, use the mode that matches the content. So for video content (like music videos or TV shows), use the "Video" mode. For films (movies), use the "Film" mode, unless as Stacey said earlier it is an HD-DVD or Blu-Ray where you should use "Forced 3:2" mode (or I'd expect "Forced 2:2" mode where PAL or Secam are used). If you are using a Game Console, use one of the "Game" Modes. If you are not technical enough to know what each type of content originates from at the lens on the set, or the content is mixed, use "Auto" mode.

For output Frame-Rates, use what matches the content and your output device's capabilities best. For example, if you have a display that can accept either 24Hz or 48Hz (or 25Hz and 50Hz for PAL - and with 1080p out only), then only use that output when you are absolutely certain that the content is film (not mixed or video) - otherwise you run a greater risk of combing or judder. for any other kind of content, thry to use the original frame-rate when possible (i.e. 50Hz or 60Hz "Locked").

For Display Profiles, I believe I read somewhere in this thread (a quote from Barry Gordon I think), that there are upwards of 3,000 user settings in this box. I'm sure that forgetting to manually set one in the corse of operation can do bad things to the final quality of the output. Using Display profiles, and even Auto-Display Profiles whenever possible, should (in theory) provide a less stressful operation of the VP50.



aaronwt - The iScan VP50/30/20 do not have SACD compatible DSD paths. this requires both an HDMI 1.2a receiver and transmitter. The VP50 has 1.1 compatible parts. Perhaps the next model?


mdrew - 1080p/72Hz is too high a data-rate for HDMI and I think is a little outside the capabilites of the VP50's scaler. 60Hz will be greyed out if you have 1080p/24Hz timings selected as it will exceed the HDMI maximum pixel clock rate if you try to use that timing at that refresh rate. First set the output format to 1080p/60Hz then select the 60HZ output frame-rate. As for the Judder test pattern, the bar moves every frame - so if you have more frames per second - it will move faster (so 24Hz will be slow, 48Hz will be faster, 60Hz will be faster still, and if you crank it 'till it stops it will go really fast!). The test pattern is on the output portion of the scaler, so it doesn't really reflect the quality of the processing of the software - it mearely shows any frame-rate problems with the display, as was this intent of the pattern).


vfrjim - For your lines problem, I recall hearing or reading that if you are getting this issue and a power-cycle "fixes" it, this is a manufacturing problem that can only be remedied with an RMA. My personal experience with DVDO's RMA department is that they are responsive - I'd contact them and have your unit serviced/replaced.


blackbird (stephan) - sorry lad... I couldn't grab a single coherent thought out of that post you made (but I'm trying...):
I can only repeat it the 1.03 firmware brought for me only degradations. A most important studderfree rendition is not possible thereby. with the 1.01 firmware that works much better if also not perfect. Go from Blu ray BD-P1000 or Toshiba HD-DVD to the VP50 and then into Sony VW50. Now i have the 1.01 firmware in use the 1.03 is useless for me

Please debug the firmware.

stephan

I think what you tried to say is:

"...v1.03 was worse than v1.01, it seems to have to do with something not locking (audio or video, not sure... but I'll guess video, and probably your are inputting a 24HZ signal). Your system has Samsung BD-P1000, Toshiba HD-DVD Player (model?), and a Sony VW50 - judder-free video is very critical in your kit, and you have reverted back to v1.01 due to the degraded functionality of the 24Hz signal handling.

Fix it..."

Hope that's right.



I just re-read the first post of this thread, and I still don't see 1080p/24Hz as a specified input/output signal :eek:. As I recall, this format was only very recently supported (the new Pioneer Plasma displays and a VERY-LIMITED handfull of projectors - and only a few sources like Blu-Ray players and some new devices that are coming out). I would not be suprised to see this format get more stable as more equipment that suports it becomes available. I heard that DVDO/Anchor Bay had a few 24Hz compatible Pioneer displays at CES - but I'll bet Sales or Marketing has had those and hasn't let Engineering touch them (or at least has handed them over only between trade-shows for a week or two...). Since it's hard to find 24Hz compatible displays for relatively little investment, I'm not suprised to see that there are problems with this format (and I'll bet they're not the only ones with problems - maybe not exacly the sames, but problems none the less - welcome to the "bleeding edge"). Anyway - 24Hz really falls under the category of "new feature".


If Dale was right when he posted several pages back, that Anchor Bay was focusing on a chip instead of systems, I'd say two firmwares for the VP50 and one for the VP30/20 in only a few months should show that DVDO system products are now back in their collective sights. The tech support guy Aaron, told me that the purpose of VP50 v1.03 was to get a stable production version with audio fixes for the VP50 before returning to new technology development (an example of new development would be turning off progressive cadence detection like sidb and fubarduck have been requesting for some time). As VP50 v1.03 is a still a beta - I'd expect that DVDO/Anchor Bay is watching what is hapening (even here on the forums) and will try to get this new version stable so that they can ship a version that has discreet IR , Audio fixes, and PReP in it (remember all those problems that plauged the VP30 for a year that they've fixed already?).

In the last few releases I've seen incremental improvements, with minor breaks here and there that get fixed in the following version. I believe that they are homing in on a version that will quiet this group of people who are affected and open a new group who are affected. However, it's hard for them to fix things if people are reporting problems with older versions of software.


(here's my semi-political pitch :)) Become part of the Beta program. Find out if your bug is fixed. If it isn't tell DVDO tech support exaclty what your bug is so they can move you into the group of "satisfied customers" (and don't forget to read the release notes to see what they say they fixed - your bug may not yet be included!). Then kick back and watch a movie :p

Hope I haven't enraged anyone here. I'm just trying to get some clarity (even my head is spining after a few of these posts - I suspect anyone at DVDO/Anchor Bay would be just as put off...).

Cheers!

-LD :cool:

EXCELLENT summation Dodger.

guys, i know some of you are frustrated, but please keep it civil.

thanks.

Terminology to use when describing your problem(s):Except you need to keep your terminology separate from your problem reports. ;)

[Video Tearing - this is a frame-rate related issue, which is caused by an output stage of a video processor changing the frame that it is drawing, but mid-frame (instead of between frames). This is very obvious, as half of the image (usually the top) is one thing and the other half (usually the bottom) is something else. I've read of a few instances where this is happening in the last page or two of this thread, as such it seems to coincide with the VP50 v1.03 software, and may have something to do with the new Forced 3:2 and Forced 2:2 modes.While your terminology description is correct, your problem report is not. This problem has been reported for many months, particularly for the 1080p/24 output format when used at a locked 24 Hz output frame rate with 60 Hz sources using 3:2 pulldown. It is not related to the forced cadence modes and was present long before those modes were ever implemented in the VP50 hardware. Up until this last release (for which problem reports are still somewhat uncertain) this has been a problem only with 24 Hz source-locked output. Also note that tearing may or may not be obvious, depending on the source material. If there is little motion in the image then you may not notice a tearing problem at all. With vertical or horizontal panning motions, however, it indeed becomes very easy to see.

I just re-read the first post of this thread, and I still don't see 1080p/24Hz as a specified input/output signal1080p/24 output was a feature of the VP50 from day 1. Of course it didn't work correctly from day 1 either, but that's beside the point. It was always there.

As I recall, this format was only very recently supported (the new Pioneer Plasma displays and a VERY-LIMITED handfull of projectors - and only a few sources like Blu-Ray players and some new devices that are coming out). I would not be suprised to see this format get more stable as more equipment that suports it becomes available. I heard that DVDO/Anchor Bay had a few 24Hz compatible Pioneer displays at CES - but I'll bet Sales or Marketing has had those and hasn't let Engineering touch them (or at least has handed them over only between trade-shows for a week or two...). Since it's hard to find 24Hz compatible displays for relatively little investment, I'm not suprised to see that there are problems with this format (and I'll bet they're not the only ones with problems - maybe not exacly the sames, but problems none the less - welcome to the "bleeding edge").There was no 1080p/24 capable display available for testing at the time the VP50 was first released. I tested and verified the VP50's frame rate conversion capabilities, but was unable to test 24 Hz source-locked output due to ABT not having any displays in-house which would handle a 24 Hz source.

Anyway - 24Hz really falls under the category of "new feature".Not really. See above. Unless you actually mean that everything in the VP50 that wasn't in a previous iScan was also a "new feature" (and I believe that 1080p/24 output was present in the VP30 as well, although I could be wrong here as I don't have VP30 to verify).


If Dale was right when he posted several pages back, that Anchor Bay was focusing on a chip instead of systems, I'd say two firmwares for the VP50 and one for the VP30/20 in only a few months should show that DVDO system products are now back in their collective sights.But for how long or to what extent? That remains to be seen. I'm sure everyone is hoping that ABT will start paying attention to their video processor business and customers again.

(remember all those problems that plauged the VP30 for a year that they've fixed already?).Yep. The problem is, I also remember all the ones that they haven't fixed or even addressed yet.

- Dale Adams

@LonelyDodger nice try ;)

I use as output signal allways 1080i 60hz from HD- Sources.

In the Pearl i try 24P and 48P it was studder in both cases.

No Audio problems.

With the old version 1.01 it is much better.

Sorry my english is bad.

To explain my own problems: As Blackbird I use two HD sources as input devices on the VP50, both 1080i/60Hz. I want to put out 1080p/24 using pulldown to eliminate motion judder. In firmware version 1.00 and 1.01 more or less tearing appears, when using these settings. In v1.03 1080p/24 is useless, because it seems, that a lot of frames are dropped and picture becomes intolerably jerky. So for now I have to live with tearing or a jerky picture, both not very satisfying.
I have no audio problems yet, because I simply do not use audio in/outputs on the VP50.

So if DVDO could resolve the 1080p/24 problem in a measurable time (no more four month waiting time), I would be very happy about this. If I can help resolving the several problems, I would really like to support DVDOs technical staff as a beta tester !

Video-wise I have exactly the same issues like GinSonic, with the only exception that 48p out worked for me without any tearing with 1.01, that's why I went back to 1.01.

Audio-wise, when switching between HDMI inputs sometimes the sound-data is not recognised by VP50, so that a have to switch back and forth again, then most of times audio appears. This is a problem of VP50 and not of my receiver. There is no real difference between 1,01 and 1.03 in relation to this issue. 1.00 had this issue always and I had to switch (or turn the VP off) several times in order to sometimes get audio.

Consequently, 1.03 only has disadvantages for me. Most disappointing is that the 48p mode, which worked well in 1.01, is not usable in 1.03.

I also hope that DVDO solves the issues soon.

OK... I think we all agree on some basic points:

1) v1.03 software may have fixed some minor issues but has not even come close when considering the big picture

2) This is an expensive box that isn't living up to basic expectations when you compare the performace to the marketing materials and factor in the missing/broken features that likely got most of us to pull out our cheque books.

I've contacted DVDO personally and I've followed the posts from "Josh" in this forum. Nothing that has come from either source has filled me with confidence. What make me furious is that my calls to DVDO have left me with the impression that I'm the first person to find these problems!

(tearing, shuddering, audio dropout, menu lockups, forced resets... need I go on?)

Yet, by simply reading this forum, it's VERY clear to me that MANY people are reproducing the same issues to the letter in their setups and are also losing patience with the product and the manufacturer.

JOSH... Who is the correct person to contact at DVDO in order to deal with these issues? I'll call them... I want to know that DVDO knows that the VP50 is lame and consumer confidence/patience with it is gone. I want to know EXACTLY what issues are being tracked and corrected by the engineering team and when we can see results. This 4-month software cycle that yeilds 2 steps forward and 3 steps back is unacceptable... How about a commitment to address specific problems by specific dates so your customers know they're not being left out to dry?

I apologize for ranting and forgive me if I'm wrong here... but I don't think I'm speaking only for myself.


100% agree!

In my Output/Format menu, there are several resolutions from 1080p24 to 1080p72 grayed out. It jumps from 1080i50 and 1080i60 down to 1080p60.

Is this the same for everyone?

In my Output/Format menu, there are several resolutions from 1080p24 to 1080p72 grayed out. It jumps from 1080i50 and 1080i60 down to 1080p60.
Yes, I also had this situation. I had to change frame rate first to e.g. 1080p24, then the formats became accessible. I have no idea why....

In my Output/Format menu, there are several resolutions from 1080p24 to 1080p72 grayed out. It jumps from 1080i50 and 1080i60 down to 1080p60.

Is this the same for everyone?

Have you chosen "24Hz Lock" or "Unlock 23.98Hz" for 60Hz from the Framerate menu? The default is "60Hz Lock" (if I remember correctly), and with that settings the 1080p24 and 1080p48 are grayed out.

I have followed this thread for quite a while. A lot of you are complaining about problems with the VP50, but have you been in contact with DVDO with these problems? One cannot assume that DVDO engineers frequent this forum, so I would recommend you to contact DVDO directly, so that they can solve your problems in upcoming firmware updates!

I am considering to buy the VP50. It has a lot of features that I like; flexible aspect ratios for CIH setups and the PreP function, but all the complaints on this forum gives me second thoughts.

It would be nice to get a clarification from DVDO about their plans for the VP50. Will they solve the problems or will the release a new product instead? The $3K pricetag should buy users good customer support, especially if DVDO wants to compete with companies like Lumagen and Pixel Magic.

Best regards,

At least a clarification is indeed what we can expect from DVDO.

Why doesn't Josh post here anymore?

I have followed this thread for quite a while. A lot of you are complaining about problems with the VP50, but have you been in contact with DVDO with these problems? One cannot assume that DVDO engineers frequent this forum, so I would recommend you to contact DVDO directly, so that they can solve your problems in upcoming firmware updates!



YHGTBFK. ! Many, if not most of us, have been in contact with DVDO.. which still does not logically lead to the conclusion that their engineers are aware of the problems. ;) AFAIC, one cannot logically assume that anyone out there knows what anyone else knows; I have rarely been in touch with a DVDO employee that wasn't polite and helpful. I've also been in touch with helpful, polite DVDO employees who had no idea what I was talking about, when referencing previous conversations or problems.

At least some of us have been in enough contact to go thru the RMA and try new ones. Which, in my case, solved some problems, but not others.

I'm fairly happy now - they FINALLY fixed the audio bugs for me; it still doesn't play well with my PS3 and BD playback, but I use aaronwt's fix for that - is only real embarrassing when I invite friends over, and have to go thru the rigarmorole required to get the VP50 to play a BD disk - and I have forgotten the specific sequence required to get a picture. Good fun.

aaron - did 1.03 make the VP50 play well with your PS3 - if so, I'll upgrade. Thanks.

Audio-wise, when switching between HDMI inputs sometimes the sound-data is not recognised by VP50, so that a have to switch back and forth again, then most of times audio appears. This is a problem of VP50 and not of my receiver. There is no real difference between 1,01 and 1.03 in relation to this issue. 1.00 had this issue always and I had to switch (or turn the VP off) several times in order to sometimes get audio.


Does it matter which sources you switch between?
Does it usually happen when you switch to one of our sources?
What is (are) the make and model of the sources that you are using?
Which AV Receiver do you have?

In my Output/Format menu, there are several resolutions from 1080p24 to 1080p72 grayed out. It jumps from 1080i50 and 1080i60 down to 1080p60.

Yes, I also had this situation. I had to change frame rate first to e.g. 1080p24, then the formats became accessible. I have no idea why....
The issue here is that there are different video timing standards for the different 1080p framerates. The length of a horizontal line (i.e., the number of pixel clocks in each line) increases as the frame rate decreases. This is done to keep the pixel clock rate set to just a couple of specific frequencies for all the different 1080i/p standards.

The different 1080p resolution options reflect these different timing standards, but do not directly control the actual output frame rate of the VP50. Now, when you have the output format and frame rate set to produce 1080p60 at 60 Hz, the VP50 is just about max'ed out in terms of pixel clock rate it can produce. If you were, for instance, to choose the 1080p50 format but leave the output frame rate at 60 Hz the VP50 could not produce the required pixel clock frequency. Since changing the format from 1080p60 to 1080p50 increases the number of pixel clocks per line but does not change the output frame rate, the required pixel clock would be beyond what the VP50 can produce. The VP50 'knows' this and inhibits the choice of 1080p50 (or any other format which would produce a too-high clock rate). By changing first to the lower output frame rate you want, and then to the desired output format, you take the VP50 through a series of steps which do not require an illegal pixel clock frequency.

Incidentally, you do need to have the different timing format for the different frame rates. Many displays expect to see the correct horizontal line timing for each different frame rate, and will not do the expected thing when the line timing is not correct.

Another way to get around this is to set the output frame rate, and then to increase the horizontal front porch setting until the VP50's output signal is shown correctly by your display. (The horizontal front porch is what changes between the different 1080p formats.) DVDO's already done this for you with the various 1080p formats, but this can result in an non-intuitive series of steps being required to get to where you want to go.

- Dale Adams

Hello Josh,
it happens randomly for me, my setup is as follows:

HD-A1 - HDMI PCM uncompressed
BD10 - HDMI PCM uncompressed
Sky HD - HDMI bitstream
Denon 3930 - HDMI bitstream

all goes HDMI to HDMI Denon AVC A11XVA (which is current 4806CI) and HDMI to Mitsubishi HC5000.

It happens randomly with PCM uncompressed that I can't get the full 6 channels and get only a stereo signal. This happens also with the current 1.01 software that I am using.
Switching sources solves the issue normally or I shut down the VP50 and it is ok then.

@ Josh:

The audio-problems are not depending on which of the HDMI-inputs I use. I have, however, the impression that they mostly occur when I switch to a source that plays back a dolby digital track. This happens with Panasonic Bd10 and with Marantz DV9600. My Receiver is a Marantz SR14.

I am quite sure that the receiver is not the probllem, because the info-box of the VP50 says something different when audio does not play than when it works correctly. (Don't remember the exact wording, have to check it at home)

Could you please say something in relation to the video issues, which bother me much more? Are they known at DVDO? Will the engineers work on them? When can we expect a fix?

It seems that at 24p as well as at 48p output the same thing is going wrong. Every few seconds, may 1 to 2 seconds, the picture seems to stop and then jump as if some frames are being dropped.

@ Josh:

The audio-problems are not depending on which of the HDMI-inputs I use. I have, however, the impression that they mostly occur when I switch to a source that plays back a dolby digital track. This happens with Panasonic Bd10 and with Marantz DV9600. My Receiver is a Marantz SR14.

Thank you for the more complete feedback.

Could you please say something in relation to the video issues, which bother me much more? Are they known at DVDO? Will the engineers work on them?

Yes, we have gotten feedback from several users, and seen in house, the problems with source-locked framerate output with version 1.03.

When can we expect a fix?
It is not possible to say when we will be able to correct this issue until our Engineering team can determine exactly what the problem is. I will keep those that the read this thread informed of our progress (Don't expect daily/hourly updates though...).

@ Josh

Thank you for your answer. It's good that you have been able to see the 24p/48p issues in house, because that's always the basis to be able to find the problem.

Thanks for keeping us informed.

I will keep those that the read this thread informed of our progress (Don't expect daily/hourly updates though...).

No problem - all I ever asked was an occasional heads up whenever the geeks told you something new. Thanks for response. :D

For those that are wondering, the discrete codes for PReP - On and PReP - Off are:

PReP Off:

0000 006c 001b 0000 0064 0064 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0044 0044 0016 0001

PReP - On:

0000 006c 001b 0000 0064 0064 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0044 0044 0016 0001

@Josh:
Many thanks, Your answers restore my confidence ! When the 1080p/24 problem will be finally fixed, my main troubles with the VP50 will be gone.

In my case the audio dropouts completely stopped with 1.03. Of course unlike most mine started with 1.01 and made the vp50 not usable for audio for me. So it went from constant dropouts, about every 30 seconds, to none now.

Also the video locks in faster on HDMI than before when changing channels or inputs. I don't currently use 24p so hopefully that will be corrected before I do.

an example of new development would be turning off progressive cadence detection like sidb and fubarduck have been requesting for some timeI think it's a bugfix to progressive cadence detection. The VP30 and every previous iScan already had the feature of non-laggy progressive scan; that feature was broken by VP50 1.00. Calling for the fix to be de-prioritized because it's "new" seems silly, given that one of the remedies I'm toying with is an "upgrade" to a VP30. Does DVDO have a trade-in program for that? (The other fixes I'm considering are a CII, or rolling over and continuing to wait like a good little puppy.)

Wow, I didn't mean that to sound so vitriolic. I guess I just don't like hearing that my problems should be put off until later, especially since I know they would be so freaking easy to fix relative to some of these persistent bugs.

Wow, I didn't mean that to sound so vitriolic. I guess I just don't like hearing that my problems should be put off until later, especially since I know they would be so freaking easy to fix relative to some of these persistent bugs.

I am not sure how you know that turning off Progressive Cadence detection is "freaking easy" (relative to some of these persistent bugs) but that aside our intention for the next release(s) for the VP50 are:

1080p-24
Progressive Cadence Detection On/Off Capability
Passthrough

I am not sure how you know that turning off Progressive Cadence detection is "freaking easy" (relative to some of these persistent bugs) but that aside our intention for the next release(s) for the VP50 are:

1080p-24
Progressive Cadence Detection On/Off Capability
Passthrough

Hi Josh

Great to hear passthru and Cadence on/off etc., but when you say "next release" do you mean after a stable non-beta, or as the next version. As well as introducing new features, we need a fully stable version. For example, 1.03 introduced Field Scale to fix a bug in 1.0 and 1.01, but that doesn't currently work properly with PAL signals.

Thanks

Pete S

For example, 1.03 introduced Field Scale to fix a bug in 1.0 and 1.01, but that doesn't currently work properly with PAL signals.


Can you please tell me the specific problem that you are having with PAL signals?

Can you please tell me the specific problem that you are having with PAL signals?

Evening Josh - been in discussion with Aaron about it already. Bottom line is, with 50Hz locked signals, the top 20% or so of the screen tears from side to side by about 2 or 3 inches in time with the 50Hz signal. If you unlock the framerate, the distortion goes away, but you get motion judder.

Also, when switching to an input on Auto to an input on Field Scale, the image is stretched by about 400% in both directions until you switch from Field Scale and back again and then it's not stretched.

pete S

Hey sidb,

I don't think your comments are that offensive or overly critical, but two things to consider:

Progressive Cadence Detection was probably added to allow the PReP technology to be developed (thus it was probably a "framework" - this is a guess). I'd imagine, that since Anchor Bay does ASICs as well, this function was probably implemented in one of their FPGAs - not in simple "boolean-logic" software code.

I'll wager, that the progressive cadence detection is part of the Deinterlacer IP that Dale developed - and since Dale doesn't work for them any more, they probably have a steeper learning curve (consider that it's not easy to go through someone's room and trying to figure out why they put something on a specific shelf... then consider going through each bit of each color, of each line in each field of each step of their processing - and try to figure out why Dale did one thing one way as opposed to another). This of course gets aggrivated if Dale left under not-so-good circumstances and isn't helping them out with new problem revelations...



It's probably harder than you imagine to make that "little" change, as in hardware, if you want to go around a significant part of logic, you need to do a lot of re-routing and timing qualification (and that's why I assume it would be something they would call a "new feature", as they appaerently didn't consider this variable in the design). If you don't do that, you can get a garbage picture, or flaky operation (two things that are absolutely unacceptable in an ASIC).

I suppose it's safer to not put a "beta" progressive on/off switch into hardware until it's proven reliable. A little lag is one thing - the complaints of judder from 24Hz and 48Hz and 50Hz are more concerning as that would (and apparently is) affect(ing) more people.



Just keep in mind that the firmware file size is nearly triple the size in VP50 as it was in VP30 - this eludes to the complexity and shear quantity of the logic/program-code within this box (something that is very easy to take for granted when you are simply looking at a few lines of familiar text on the OSD ;)).

Cheers!

-LD :cool:

P.S. Thanks Josh, that sounds like it's the same thing I heard from Tech Support about VP50 v1.03 being intended as a stable factory/production release - and new technology being in a future version.

P.P.S. Dale, I know that 24Hz was available in the factory release of VP50, but I don't remember it being a specified function as part of the sales material/pitch. When I called Tech Support in late November, they said it was not tested and they were interested to hear my observations of the format. Now that a flurry of 24/48Hz compatible equipment has hit the market (and with little fanfare I might add...) I'm not shocked to see problems. -LD

Progressive Cadence Detection was probably added to allow the PReP technology to be developed (thus it was probably a "framework" - this is a guess).Bad guess. ;) PReP and cadence detection of progressive sources are completely unrelated, outside of the fact that they both reside in the deinterlacer. There's no particular functional link between them.

It's probably harder than you imagine to make that "little" change, as in hardware, if you want to go around a significant part of logic, you need to do a lot of re-routing and timing qualification (and that's why I assume it would be something they would call a "new feature", as they appaerently didn't consider this variable in the design). If you don't do that, you can get a garbage picture, or flaky operation (two things that are absolutely unacceptable in an ASIC).Consider this: The VP50 already supports progressive formats for which it does not perform cadence detection - i.e., all the 'computer' formats like XGA. It can already process and scale those formats, and do so from at least some of the same input ports on which progressive 'video' formats will be received. Therefore there must already be a path around the deinterlacer (where the cadence detection resides), and that path must have been tested and verified to work for these other formats. This verification work may not have been done for 480p, 576p, 720p and 1080p, but outside of 1080p these formats all fall within the range of the VGA-to-SXGA formats which are supported today. Come on. How hard can it be?

A little lag is one thing - the complaints of judder from 24Hz and 48Hz and 50Hz are more concerning as that would (and apparently is) affect(ing) more people."A little lag" makes the VP50 unusable for a number of gaming applications. The judder problem makes the VP50 unusable for people who have displays which support these particular frame rates. So what the VP50 owner is being told is that ABT doesn't care nearly as much about gamers as it does about (a presumed minority of) users who happen to have displays supporting frame rates like 24 Hz and 48 Hz. Now, that may be a perfectly valid decision on ABT's part based on their user base. But they should understand that by setting their priorities this way they are alienating a portion of that user base.

P.P.S. Dale, I know that 24Hz was available in the factory release of VP50, but I don't remember it being a specified function as part of the sales material/pitch. When I called Tech Support in late November, they said it was not tested and they were interested to hear my observations of the format. Now that a flurry of 24/48Hz compatible equipment has hit the market (and with little fanfare I might add...) I'm not shocked to see problems.If the feature wasn't guaranteed to work, then it should never have been there in the first place. Or is ABT now intentionally putting beta features in their release software?

- Dale Adams

our intention for the next release(s) for the VP50 are:

1080p-24
Progressive Cadence Detection On/Off Capability
PassthroughOh Josh, you sly charmer. You know just how to keep stringing me along. I think I love you. :p

Seriously, though, PCD-on/off and passthrough (assuming that's HDMI passthrough of unrecognized signals you're talking about) are two of my biggest three wishes for the VP50. I am seriously thrilled to hear that DVDO is not only aware of them, but actually intends to fix them! A little communication can go such a long way. Thank you.

As an aside, I wasn't actually sure that passthrough would be possible with the switch from DVI to HDMI and the associated specialized transmit and receive chips. My display is natively 1920x1200@60Hz, and I'd love to be able to pass that through the VP50. Is that the sort of thing you're talking about? (That resolution pretty much maxes out the single-link DVI spec, but it's not an official HDMI resolution, and as a complicating issue, it might have a faster pixel clock than the VP50 can handle in hardware if the VP50 is designed around HDMI.)

As an aside, I wasn't actually sure that passthrough would be possible with the switch from DVI to HDMI and the associated specialized transmit and receive chips. My display is natively 1920x1200@60Hz, and I'd love to be able to pass that through the VP50. Is that the sort of thing you're talking about? (That resolution pretty much maxes out the single-link DVI spec, but it's not an official HDMI resolution, and as a complicating issue, it might have a faster pixel clock than the VP50 can handle in hardware if the VP50 is designed around HDMI.)

Our intention is to allow passthrough of resolutions up to (and including) 1080p.

Bad guess. ;)...

...Consider this: The VP50 already supports progressive formats for which it does not perform cadence detection - i.e., all the 'computer' formats like XGA...

...Therefore there must already be a path around the deinterlacer (where the cadence detection resides), and that path must have been tested and verified to work for these other formats...

Based on that (and the fact that you know what the architecture looks like - since you "had a hand" in developing the sweet Deinterlacer), I'll default to your knowledge and agree that this should be a "simple boolean software" change...



..."A little lag" makes the VP50 unusable for a number of gaming applications. The judder problem makes the VP50 unusable for people who have displays which support these particular frame rates. So what the VP50 owner is being told is that ABT doesn't care nearly as much about gamers as it does about (a presumed minority of) users who happen to have displays supporting frame rates like 24 Hz and 48 Hz...

I think it to be a bit unfair to assume that DVDO/Anchor Bay "doesn't care" about a segment of its users if the intention of this version was NOT to address those particular issues (although, being as you worked at Anchor Bay, I'll bet you could probably name people on both sides of the argument...). I was ticked off when they put out the VP50 and it had the same audio bug as my VP30 did for a year, and even more ticked off when they fixed the VP50 first - but I don't think it's fair to say they didn't care about me (even if only a pure $$$$ concern :p) - they did fix both products, and have since moved on to new bug fixes. If they truely didn't care, I'd still have to run my audio around my VP50 and I wouldn't get multi-channel PCM over HDMI...



...If the feature wasn't guaranteed to work, then it should never have been there in the first place. Or is ABT now intentionally putting beta features in their release software?...

As far as I'm aware, 1.01 and 1.03 are beta... I'm not privy to internal politics at Anchor Bay as you may be – but if it’s like any other company out there, sometimes “features” are pushed into products before they are ready due to internal political struggles (and if you leaving Anchor Bay and a few months later they have some major changes, like new logos, web pages, and a new chip product that takes away system development time – I don’t know what would better illustrate an “internal political struggle” :D)

Cheers!

-LD :cool:

P.S. Hey Dale, thanks for not skewering me on my guess :eek:

Evening Josh - been in discussion with Aaron about it already. Bottom line is, with 50Hz locked signals, the top 20% or so of the screen tears from side to side by about 2 or 3 inches in time with the 50Hz signal. If you unlock the framerate, the distortion goes away, but you get motion judder.

Also, when switching to an input on Auto to an input on Field Scale, the image is stretched by about 400% in both directions until you switch from Field Scale and back again and then it's not stretched.

pete S

I lived in PAL country and I have the same problem as described above with v1.03. There are no such problems with v1.01.

I think it to be a bit unfair to assume that DVDO/Anchor Bay "doesn't care" about a segment of its users if the intention of this version was NOT to address those particular issues (although, being as you worked at Anchor Bay, I'll bet you could probably name people on both sides of the argument...).Please don't put words in my mouth. I said "care as much". That implies a priority in dealing with customer issues, and there's nothing wrong with that. But it does show a priority and that priority gets communicated to the customers. As a more extreme case, take the request for 240p game support (like there was in the original iScan doubler) vs. fixing audio bugs. There's a priority there for fixing the audio problems, and I believe that's, without question, the right thing to do. But that doesn't mean that one group of VP50 users (however small) doesn't get put off to service another, larger group.

As far as I'm aware, 1.01 and 1.03 are beta... And that would be a perfectly valid point if only the 24 Hz output feature were not in the original 1.00 VP50 release. But it was . . .

- Dale Adams

I am not sure how you know that turning off Progressive Cadence detection is "freaking easy" (relative to some of these persistent bugs) but that aside our intention for the next release(s) for the VP50 are:

1080p-24
Progressive Cadence Detection On/Off Capability
Passthrough

Glad to hear that the guy who won my eBay auction will be able to enjoy full functionality with his VP50.

In the meantime, just one more fix on the VP30 firmware (the 640x480 VGA source I was using with the VP50 does not even show up on the VP30) and I'll be completely satisfied with it.

I'm looking forward to noise reduction and detail enhacement for using it with digital satellite.......

i'm not updating the firmware until then, since 1.01 is working well for me right now...

Well, all I have to say is - Thank God for Dale. The less-knowing (i.e. the vast majority of the rest of us) don't have this kind of sophisticated knowledge and insider type information. With him here I sincerely feel I have a fighting chance at getting the full story on all these issues and without the biases of business models and goals. In other words, it's harder to BS someone who knows of what they speak.

As a more extreme case, take the request for 240p game support (like there was in the original iScan doubler) vs. fixing audio bugs.That is, in fact, the third thing I wish the VP50 did, in addition to PCD-off and passthrough. Maybe someday. The iScan at least displays 240p in a sub-optimal presentation, unlike, say, the Crystalio I, which I've heard doesn't accept it at all. I can work around that. (Although including bob deinterlacing would be almost as good as detecting 240p automatically, and it has already been established that bob is a quite trivial change.)

Our intention is to allow passthrough of resolutions up to (and including) 1080p.So that includes resolutions that the VP50 couldn't normally process, like certain computer resolutions? (Not my precious 1920*1200, but resolutions smaller than 1080p.) Just so I know what you're talking about when you say you're hoping to include "passthrough".

And I'm still happy. I'll try to give you at least a month before I start complaining that it's taking too long. :)

This is most likely a stupid question, does it make any sense to run 1080p out of my PS3 into the VP50 then 1080i out to my plasma (Elite 1130, which will only support 1080i.)? Do I gain anything by outputting 1080p in this scenario?

Yes! The PS3 looks better to me when it outputs 1080P. Then let the VP50 interlace it. This has the best results for me.

Glad to hear that the guy who won my eBay auction will be able to enjoy full functionality with his VP50.

In the meantime, just one more fix on the VP30 firmware (the 640x480 VGA source I was using with the VP50 does not even show up on the VP30) and I'll be completely satisfied with it.

How will you handle 1080P content with the VP30? Doesn't it only pass-thru 1080P? I think this was one of the reasons I traded my VP30 in for a VP50, if I remember correctly.

"A little lag" makes the VP50 unusable for a number of gaming applications. The judder problem makes the VP50 unusable for people who have displays which support these particular frame rates. So what the VP50 owner is being told is that ABT doesn't care nearly as much about gamers as it does about (a presumed minority of) users who happen to have displays supporting frame rates like 24 Hz and 48 Hz. Now, that may be a perfectly valid decision on ABT's part based on their user base. But they should understand that by setting their priorities this way they are alienating a portion of that user base.

If the feature wasn't guaranteed to work, then it should never have been there in the first place. Or is ABT now intentionally putting beta features in their release software?

- Dale Adams

Hai Dale,Josh nice to see both still in this thread i guess you both might have enough reasons to look the other way at times.

I have no real stand in this issue but what i find interesting is that at times dvdo's press releases/documentation claims the reverse. In this case they make a big deal of game modes that once they get tested turn out to be lacking in the area they claimed to be special. Also they are clearly a step back from a lesser product (vp20/30 with 102) they themself sell.

That should be a big 'oops' moment and simple company pride should be enough to fix it.

All of us more or less understand and accept that they might have problems with hdmi between devices since all companies have them and is partly the result of external products where they are forced to react on other people's doings.

In the case of use for gamers they set themselfs up bigtime and have nobody to look at it doesn't work as gamers should have expected coming from a lesser model and the information they themself transmit.

Just a view from the sideline,

Daniel.

How will you handle 1080P content with the VP30? Doesn't it only pass-thru 1080P? I think this was one of the reasons I traded my VP30 in for a VP50, if I remember correctly.

It doesn't passthrough 1080p content yet (supposed to come with a firmware update) but 1080p passthrough is enough for me. To be perfectly honest, I don't want or need any processing on 1080p signals, I simply want my 480i/480p signals upscaled with no lag and everything else to passthrough or scale to 1080p so that I don't have to change inputs on my TV and my VPxx can auto-detect whatever is turned on.

Since my only conern/priority is gaming (and making it look good, having proper aspect ratio, etc), HD processing is just an added bonus.

Guys, I'm having trouble outputting a PC resolution to the rgbhv input from my laptop's VGA output.. what resolutions/framerates are supported?