The issue here is that there are different video timing standards for the different 1080p framerates. The length of a horizontal line (i.e., the number of pixel clocks in each line) increases as the frame rate decreases. This is done to keep the pixel clock rate set to just a couple of specific frequencies for all the different 1080i/p standards.

The different 1080p resolution options reflect these different timing standards, but do not directly control the actual output frame rate of the VP50. Now, when you have the output format and frame rate set to produce 1080p60 at 60 Hz, the VP50 is just about max'ed out in terms of pixel clock rate it can produce. If you were, for instance, to choose the 1080p50 format but leave the output frame rate at 60 Hz the VP50 could not produce the required pixel clock frequency. Since changing the format from 1080p60 to 1080p50 increases the number of pixel clocks per line but does not change the output frame rate, the required pixel clock would be beyond what the VP50 can produce. The VP50 'knows' this and inhibits the choice of 1080p50 (or any other format which would produce a too-high clock rate). By changing first to the lower output frame rate you want, and then to the desired output format, you take the VP50 through a series of steps which do not require an illegal pixel clock frequency.

So, if I'm reading this right, the only way to get 1080p24 output is to start with 1080p60, change the frame rate to 24hz (which will cause the screen to black out), then navigate to the Output/Format menu using the VP50's front LED and change the output resolution to 1080p24.

Indeed, I tried this last night and voila I finally got a picture from 1080p24.

Seems like an awfully convoluted and non-intuitive way to make a simple frame rate change. At the very least, this needs to be better explained in the owner documentation.

Well, now that I got a 1080p24 picture, I can confirm what others have said about the Locked 24hz frame rate being juddery as hell. It was unwatchable. I unlocked to 23.98 and it seems more stable, though I haven't watched a whole movie this way yet.

Well, now that I got a 1080p24 picture, I can confirm what others have said about the Locked 24hz frame rate being juddery as hell. It was unwatchable. I unlocked to 23.98 and it seems more stable, though I haven't watched a whole movie this way yet.The problem you'll have in unlocked mode is that since the output frame rate is not in any way locked to the input, you won't get each film frame shown only once. Instead, the VP50's output will vary over time, sometimes dropping frames, sometimes repeating frames, and sometimes doing just what you want. The rate at which it varies will depend on the actual input and output frequencies. But at least you shouldn't get any tearing like you do with the pre-1.03 firmware on the 24 Hz locked mode. :D

- Dale Adams

The problem you'll have in unlocked mode is that since the output frame rate is not in any way locked to the input, you won't get each film frame shown only once. Instead, the VP50's output will vary over time, sometimes dropping frames, sometimes repeating frames, and sometimes doing just what you want. The rate at which it varies will depend on the actual input and output frequencies. But at least you shouldn't get any tearing like you do with the pre-1.03 firmware on the 24 Hz locked mode. :D

- Dale Adams

I can confirm this with my Pioneer 7-gen plasma... Thanks for the explanation.

So, if I'm reading this right, the only way to get 1080p24 output is to start with 1080p60, change the frame rate to 24hz (which will cause the screen to black out), then navigate to the Output/Format menu using the VP50's front LED and change the output resolution to 1080p24.



correct, sir. although in my case the screen doesnt go black. or at least, the menues are still good. you are right, the displayed signal will disappear until you get the rest of the stuff set, but my crt still shows the menues, making the rest of the adjustments easy enough.

I have no real stand in this issue but what i find interesting is that at times dvdo's press releases/documentation claims the reverse. In this case they make a big deal of game modes that once they get tested turn out to be lacking in the area they claimed to be special. Also they are clearly a step back from a lesser product (vp20/30 with 102) they themself sell.

That should be a big 'oops' moment and simple company pride should be enough to fix it.



The Game Modes included in the VP50 are deinterlacing modes, and there has been no reported issues with these modes. The issues that are being reported are with game consoles that have progressive outputs.

Guys, I'm having trouble outputting a PC resolution to the rgbhv input from my laptop's VGA output.. what resolutions/framerates are supported?

VGA@60Hz
SVGA@60Hz
XGA@60Hz
SXGA@60Hz

Guys, I'm having trouble outputting a PC resolution to the rgbhv input from my laptop's VGA output.. what resolutions/framerates are supported?

short answer is very few. :(

from their website,

480p-60, 576p-50, 720p-50/60, 1080i-50/60, VGA-SXGA@60Hz

This question has cropped up a few times in this thread; at the time, I was able to get 720p and 1080i to work, but some others couldn't. At the time, brought up a number of folks mentioning DVDO's ad copy - "any resolution in, any resolution out."

I see from the new ad copy, that has been removed. - or at least I can't find it. I was only bummed because I wanted to use the RGB as a third set of component inputs - had they accepted 480i, I would have been golden.

The Game Modes included in the VP50 are deinterlacing modes, and there has been no reported issues with these modes. The issues that are being reported are with game consoles that have progressive outputs.

Exactly - which is why I let my PS2 output 480i, and let the VP50 do the heavy lifting.

Out of curiousity, wonder what the PS3 would look like, outputting 480i, and then letting the VP50 handle it? Has anyone tried that?

The Game Modes included in the VP50 are deinterlacing modes, and there has been no reported issues with these modes. The issues that are being reported are with game consoles that have progressive outputs.

Gamers log onto the web site and see that there is a Game Mode so it's common sense to think that no other signals would have noticeable lag. The reason I got so excited about the VPxx series in the first place is because I read the review on IGN Gear about the VP20/30 + ABT102d. When I finally decided to purchase one (which was a big decision considering the price), I decided to purchase the newest one since it has even more features! Wow! Makes sense right?

Imagine me having to explain to my friends why I couldn't put games in Progressive Scan anymore after I had drilled it into their heads for years to hold X and Triangle while the PS2 game starts up. Some people actually laughed when I told them how much it cost without the ability to do that basic functionality. I even had to keep my PS3 hooked up straight to my HDTV because some of the games only output 720p.

Like it or not, your product has been marketed towards gamers since the ABT102d was released, and to our dismay, the VPxx series is still the ONLY video processor that can completely eliminate gaming lag on most HDTVs. Until someone else (or you guys) makes another VP with Game Modes, I have no choice but to continue my support.

My DVDO utility program has been updated at my web site (www.the-gordons.net). The update consists of a new version of the program (2.0.108). and a New "Prototype ini file. The ini file should be altered in the "System" section to reflect the configuration of the DVDO scaler you are using and the options for how you wish the program to operate (beginner mode, advanced mode, ports, etc.)

The update fixes some problems with the generation of "Discrete" IR codes based upon what the model of the device is (VP30 vs VP50) and what options are installed (e.g. ABTDI). If the program actaully connects to the scaler it will query the scaler for model, firmware version and the SDI option. The ability to reply to these queries is dependent upon the firmware version installed so setting the proper data in the ini file is the best approach. It is unable to check for the presence of the ABTDI-102 at this time so that must be set manually.

Please let me know if there are any problems or questions.

Barry,

Thanks for your effeort on the DVDO utilty. How do we edit the INI to tell it we have a VP50?

Thanks

correct, sir. although in my case the screen doesnt go black. or at least, the menues are still good. you are right, the displayed signal will disappear until you get the rest of the stuff set, but my crt still shows the menues, making the rest of the adjustments easy enough.

There really needs to be a more elegant solution to this problem. Right now I'm saving 6 separate display profiles for my one projector to work around this:

16:9 - 60hz (NSTC/HD video)
16:9 - 24hz (NTSC/HD film-based)
16:9 - 50hz (PAL)
2.35:1 - 60hz
2.35:1 - 24hz
2.35:1 - 50hz

With my previous 720p projector, I was able to combine NTSC and PAL frame rate defaults into 1 profile, but that doesn't work anymore with 1080p because the screen goes black if I put in a PAL DVD and the frame rate switches to 50hz without changing the output resolution setting as well. I was also previously able to toggle between 720p60 and 720p48 by changing only one setting (frame rate itself).

There really needs to be a more elegant solution to this problem.

No arguments there. ;)

Out of curiosity, wonder what the PS3 would look like, outputting 480i, and then letting the VP50 handle it? Has anyone tried that?Like a really expensive PS2, I imagine.

Anyway, it feels strange suddenly sticking up for DVDO on this issue, but the progressive cadence detection toggle Josh mentioned is the fix to the progressive lag problem for games. It would have been nice if some engineer hadn't skipped his coffee one morning last year and failed to think things through, thereby frustrating us VP50 gamers for six-plus months, but at least DVDO finally says it's fixing it. Now that there's hope, I'm willing to wait just a little longer.

….
The update fixes some problems with the generation of "Discrete" IR codes based upon what the model of the device is (VP30 vs VP50) and what options are installed (e.g. ABTDI). If the program actaully connects to the scaler it will query the scaler for model, firmware version and the SDI option. The ability to reply to these queries is dependent upon the firmware version installed ….

Barry;
First off, let me say that I really appreciate your efforts with this awesome utility! Thanks so much!

I want to make sure I understand you correctly. Are you saying that the IR codes are different depending on the firmware that is being used? (The release notes for VP50 f/w 1.03b say they fixed the “remote control repeat bug”. I assume this refers to the remote control issues that were introduced with the previous beta.)
If so, would you recommend I reprogram/relearn my Universal remote (MX-3000) with the latest codes from your utility?

Thanks!
______
Axel

Pardon my ignorance. Can someone explain to me the gaming issues and the significance of progressive cadence detection? I have a PS3 which I am using for movies, but I may give gaming a try.

Pardon my ignorance. Can someone explain to me the gaming issues and the significance of progressive cadence detection? I have a PS3 which I am using for movies, but I may give gaming a try.There are three relevant kinds of game console output for video processors:

1) 480p, 720p, 1080p

Current VP50 Handling - The VP50 introduced progressive cadence detection, which analyzes incoming progressive scan video for cadence patterns so it can tell what the native framerate of the content is. To do this, it buffers up three frames of video. That causes lag on any progressive-scan source (except possibly certain computer resolutions?), which is bad for gaming. Previous iScans didn't have the PCD feature, so they didn't have this problem.

Possible Fixes - There's no good way to automatically detect that content doesn't need to be analyzed for cadence. It might be possible to detect the cadence without delaying the video by not detecting the cadence until the video has already been playing for three frames. That might not be practical because of problems re-syncing the framerate any time the cadence changes, or other complications. The easy solution is to add an interface switch to turn off the cadence detection per input. That is the fix Josh said is in the works.

2) 240p video

Description - This is for older games, like most N64 and PS1 games, almost all games on any console older than that, and a few games on newer consoles (like Ico on PS2). Also, re-releases of old games may or may not use 240p. This video mode was invented for SD CRT displays. It uses only the odd scanlines, but it refreshes them at twice the normal rate, resulting in 60 frames/sec of true progressive scan video at half the normal SD resolution. The electron gun never even hits the even scanlines on the CRT.

Current VP50 Handling - The VP50 will display 240p video, but it treats it exactly like 480i video. That means it applies its deinterlacing algorithms, which distort the original progressive scan content. The least-interfering deinterlacing mode is Game Mode 1, which only applies edge-adaptive algorithms. Currently, this is the best VP50 setting for 240p video aside from buying an external processor just for old games, like an XRGB-2.

Possible Fixes - The VP50 could be made to recognize 240p video. It would not try to deinterlace it. To really do this nicely, it could offer different sharpness modes for keeping the original pixelated look or smoothing things out, and for emulating the dark even-numbered scanlines. Alternately, if simple Bob Mode deinterlacing were offered, users could manually select it when they knew the content was 240p. Bob deinterlacing with no enhancement algorithms is effectively correct interpretation of 240p.

3) 480i video (or 1080i for the rare games that support it).

Current VP50 Handling - This works perfectly already. Use the deinterlacing mode that you feel is the best tradeoff between responsiveness and quality, depending on the game. If you play 480i games on your PS3 (for example, most PS2 games), make sure the console isn't trying to deinterlace and scale for you. The VP50 does it better.

Sorry if this is a little OT, but this seemed like the best thread to post in :-

1) I beleive HDMI 1.3 will offer 1440p as a valid resolution :-

a) Does the BRD or HD-DVD standard offer support for this ?

b) Are we likely to see 1440 software anytime ever ?

c) Being that the VP50 is largely based on a custom PGA, is a future software update likely to offer 1440 support, or are there other hardware considerations (like current generation HDMI rx/tx chips) that mean this is not going to be an option ?


Just curious ....

Axel,

To my knowledge the IR codes are independent of the firmware, EXCEPT that some certain IR capabilities were introduced at a specific firmware level.

In addition certain features that the program relies on are firmware version dependent. For example the ability to query the Model name, Query the Firmware version and query if SDI is installed are all dependent on a specific level of the firmware.

What I have repaired in the latest round are IR differences based mainly on Model (VP30 vs VP50) and the ABTDI-102 card option in a VP30.

I recommend that users of my program fill in the key parameters in the system section of the ini file. The following are entries that a user should be concerned with:

Iscan Connected=true
User Level=0
Model = VP30
Current Firmware=1.01
Auto Start = false
Max Ports=4
Port = 1
Option = ABTDI

In the case of current fiormware, if the iscan is connected it will try and ascertain what the firmware version is. Not much harm if it is wrong.

Leave a parameter out if you wish the system default (e.g if Option = ABTDI is missing then the system assumes that the ABTDI-102 card is not installed)

There are comments in the ini file and the word doc explains a lot more in additional detail.

Jon,

The ini file is just a text file. Any word processor may be used to edit it. See a post a couple of items back where I explained more. In your case change the directive "Model=VP30" (the way it is shipped in the prototype ini file) to "Model=VP50" (without the quotation marks). Save the ini file overwriting the prior version. That is all there is to it.

Thanks, that makes sense now.
So, seeing as I am clueless about gaming and would be a few steps slower reacting anyways, the current issues probably would not bother me. :D

Barry, thanks for your explanation - that helped!
____
Axel

Axel,

We all bring our biases and learned history to the table. I just "Assumed" every person who has ever used a windows PC knows what an ini file is and its basic structure. My BAD. My sister surely doesn't and major segments of my entire family would not have a clue!.

Could someone please post the link to download 1.03? Maybe I'm going blind as I've read the page linked to the 1.03 download but don't see anywhere to download the update.

Could someone please post the link to download 1.03? Maybe I'm going blind as I've read the page linked to the 1.03 download but don't see anywhere to download the update.

I believe it used to be that you had to fill out this form (http://www.anchorbaytech.com/support/software_downloads/update/vp50.beta_agreement.1.03.php) and hit "I Agree". However when I just tried it again I ended up on the welcome page :confused:

____
Axel

I just tried it and was able to download 1.03 without any problems.
I entered my name and email address and hit the "I Agree" button and the download window popped up. It downloaded it quickly.

thanks, I did realize the blanks below were for downloading the software.

I believe it used to be that you had to fill out this form (http://www.anchorbaytech.com/support/software_downloads/update/vp50.beta_agreement.1.03.php) and hit "I Agree". However when I just tried it again I ended up on the welcome page :confused:

____
Axel


Ahhh, got it now - I had to turn off ZoneAlarm.

____
Axel

Thanks, that makes sense now.
So, seeing as I am clueless about gaming and would be a few steps slower reacting anyways, the current issues probably would not bother me. :DIt depends on the game. In general, though, we wouldn't have bought VP50s if we weren't trying to come as close to perfection as possible. Otherwise, we could just plug all our gear straight into our displays. For me, gaming is the important thing, so that's where I really care about perfection.

Hi,

Just set up my new VP50 but have found a problem with SkyHD using HDMI all the way.

When i am watching a SD channel and select a HD channel i end up with a blank screen, same with switching from a HD channel back to a SD channel.

I can only recover the picture when the VP is put in and out of standby or i switch my Panasonic 50PHD8 on and off or disconnect the HDMI feed to the display and reconnect it.

It seem to either lose HDCP comms or Sync.

Can anyone help, Josh?

Using 1.03beta.

EDIT, it's just started working now but intermittenly! wierd.

Does the VP50 allow you to adjust the saturation of individual RGB colours?

Does the VP50 allow you to adjust the saturation of individual RGB colours?The current firmware version (release or beta) does not offer this. I think I recall it being mentioned as a feature being considered for a future upgrade, though.

- Dale Adams

Anyone tried using Vista to download 1.0, 1.01 0r 1.03?

I had no problem doing it with XP sp2, but my PC is now dead. I'm thinking of getting a new pc with vista tomorrow and just want to be sure I can download Tera Term Pro for PC and FTDI USB-to-serial driver with Vista. Anchor Bay software releases page makes no mention of Vista. I'm not good with troubleshooting pcs when they go nuts.

Any help is much appreciated. Thanks.

The current firmware version (release or beta) does not offer this. I think I recall it being mentioned as a feature being considered for a future upgrade, though.

- Dale Adams

That's cool. There are cries for this by the JVC RS1 owners hoping to improve colours.

Anyone tried using Vista to download 1.0, 1.01 0r 1.03?

I had no problem doing it with XP sp2, but my PC is now dead. I'm thinking of getting a new pc with vista tomorrow and just want to be sure I can download Tera Term Pro for PC and FTDI USB-to-serial driver with Vista. Anchor Bay software releases page makes no mention of Vista. I'm not good with troubleshooting pcs when they go nuts.

Any help is much appreciated. Thanks.
I haven't tried it yet but I was wondering the same thing. I want to put Vista Premium on my HTPC(which I use for all my firmware upgrades). Microsoft gives a nice discount called the "family discount" when you get the retail version of Ultimate, full and upgrade. You can get up to two Vista Premium licenses for only $50 each instead of the normal price of $160.
The only caveat is the PCs need to be at the same address as the VISTA Ultimate machine.

The current firmware version (release or beta) does not offer this. I think I recall it being mentioned as a feature being considered for a future upgrade, though.

- Dale Adams

that is something I have pushed for forever, separate hue and sat for each color, allowing any user to dial in a 100% perfect color decoder, people don't realize what a difference this makes, it is amazing with greens and reds when this is dead on

hopefully we will see this soon, along with greyscale and major gamma tweaking abilities ;)

-Gary

I haven't tried it yet but I was wondering the same thing. I want to put Vista Premium on my HTPC(which I use for all my firmware upgrades). Microsoft gives a nice discount called the "family discount" when you get the retail version of Ultimate, full and upgrade. You can get up to two Vista Premium licenses for only $50 each instead of the normal price of $160.
The only caveat is the PCs need to be at the same address as the VISTA Ultimate machine.

Hope someone whos tried it will reply. Don't want to be stuck when there is a feature that is worth updating and no XP p2 to use.

I loaded 1.03 with my Vista laptop using Tera Term with no problems.

that is something I have pushed for forever, separate hue and sat for each color, allowing any user to dial in a 100% perfect color decoder, people don't realize what a difference this makes, it is amazing with greens and reds when this is dead on

hopefully we will see this soon, along with greyscale and major gamma tweaking abilities ;)

-Gary

Right. I forgot to mention hue. This would put me over the edge in my decision to eventually upgrade from the HD+ to the VP50.

I loaded 1.03 with my Vista laptop using Tera Term with no problems.

Great! I'll proceed with upgrading my HTPC to Vista!

with ps3 connected to HDMI1 and using the HDMI output i got no informations in the information screen it's emty does anyone have this also ? using software v1.01. and resulution 1080p60 input and output.

with ps3 connected to HDMI1 and using the HDMI output i got no informations in the information screen it's emty does anyone have this also ? using software v1.01. and resulution 1080p60 input and output.

With 1.01, I had no info from the info screen most of the time, problem with the menus also. 1.03 seems to have fixed this.

Can my VP50 change it's output depending on the input? eg. when watching cable, on standard channels it outputs 480p and on HD channels it outputs 720p.

Curious observation:

The Toshiba HD-XA2 downconverts Dolby Digital Plus soundtracks to standard DD 5.1 over Coaxial or Toslink. When running coax through the VP50, the VP50's Info screen reports the audio format as "PCM 48kHz" rather than the expected "Dolby Dig." (which it displays when standard DVDs are played). Any idea why?

I just tried to update to 1.03 but so far it has been no go for me.

First I tried to install Tera Term Pro but for some reasons I fail to manage to install it to my computer: I have followed the instructions from www.dvdo.com but the install process stops all the time after the point 3 (of 1-6) = I can select language and click "continue" but after that nothing :confused:

Then I tried to install Barry´s utility but after it had been installed it said among others "55:21.21 There is no SDI interface module installed in the device".

Since I have a SDI-module installed and I use it all the time I didn´t dare to move on. Should I just ignore above and move on or should I try to install Barry´s utility again ?

Any ideas what I´m doing wrong here :o I´m using XP Pro + SP 2 and Zone Alarm+ AntiVir

I loaded 1.03 with my Vista laptop using Tera Term with no problems.

Excellent. Thank you.

Can my VP50 change it's output depending on the input? eg. when watching cable, on standard channels it outputs 480p and on HD channels it outputs 720p.

This would be a great feature, and it would make things easier for the rest of the family. Right now I have to do a lot of switching the output resolution and framerate to get the optimal PQ with my 768p plasma:

Incoming signal / Best output resolution:

Cable box: 576p50 / 576p50 (PReP)
Cable box: 720p50 / 720p50
Cable box: 1080i50 / 1080i50
Toshiba XE1: HD DVD 1080i60 / 1080p24
Toshiba XE1: SD DVD PAL 576p50 / 576p50 (PReP)
Philips DVD Player: NTSC DVD 480i60 / 480p60
PS3: Games 720p60 / 720p60
PS3: Blu-ray 1080i60 / 1080p24

So in my case the rules for different output signals would be:

480i60 > 480p60
576p50 > 576p50 (PReP)
720p50 > 720p50
1080i50 > 1080i50
1080i60 > 1080p24

The important thing is that the output resolution should be dependant on the input signal type, not only the input port (to support many different signals from one device).

Would it be a hard thing to program this kind of automation to VP50? Or is there such already? :rolleyes:

Would it be a hard thing to program this kind of automation to VP50? Or is there such already? :rolleyes:

Yep - such a thing already. Store the output configs as Profiles, and then turn on Auto switching for profiles. The VP50 remembers which profile was in selected last time it sees an particular input and auto switches to that profile. The VP50 supports 10 profiles.

However, why do you want to output all those different formats. Surely, just pick the resolutions that's native (or closest) for your screen, and output that one - and use the profiles to sort out frame rate etc. Otherwise, you're expecting your display to do scaling, rather than the VP50, and that's generally a bad idea.

Yep - such a thing already. Store the output configs as Profiles, and then turn on Auto switching for profiles. The VP50 remembers which profile was in selected last time it sees an particular input and auto switches to that profile. The VP50 supports 10 profiles.

However, why do you want to output all those different formats. Surely, just pick the resolutions that's native (or closest) for your screen, and output that one - and use the profiles to sort out frame rate etc. Otherwise, you're expecting your display to do scaling, rather than the VP50, and that's generally a bad idea.

Great, thanks! Should read the manual...

My problem is that my display (Pioneer 7-gen plasma) doesn't accept it's native resolution (1365x768) and I want to avoid scaling the signal twice (576p>720p>768p). Pioneer should have quite ok scaling, but not as good as VP50. I'm still waiting for a miracle firmware update for the Pioneer that would enable it to achieve 1:1, then I'd use 768p for all SD...

Artoj.

I am just finishing up a newer version of the DVDO utility which is in alignment with information given to me by DVDO. They are doing good work to bring all of RS232/IR stuff into alignment across the various models and the next version of the utility is set up for that.

Regarding your problem. The message comes up when I query the VPxx as to whether the SDI module is installed. This will be handled much better in the newer version

The message has nothing to do with using the loader section of the utility. It actually has no effect on the operation of the VPxx, just controls what is displayed along the input setup dab in the utility

ArtOj

I am almost ready to post a new version of the utility. This version was developed with some help from DVDO in the area of RS232 and IR automation.

Do not worry about the diagnostic. I know why it is coming up and it will not affect the use of the loader capability fo the utility

Great, thanks! Should read the manual...

My problem is that my display (Pioneer 7-gen plasma) doesn't accept it's native resolution (1365x768) and I want to avoid scaling the signal twice (576p>720p>768p). Pioneer should have quite ok scaling, but not as good as VP50. I'm still waiting for a miracle firmware update for the Pioneer that would enable it to achieve 1:1, then I'd use 768p for all SD...

if the pio accepts 1080p (which may do), most panel scalers are better at downconverting then upconverting - so if it receives 1080p, the DVDO will still do the deinterlacing (the hardest bit) and upscaling.... give it a try ..... it may be not bad....

I have just placed the latest revision to the DVDO utility on my web site (www.the-gordons.net). DVDO is in the process of placing a lot of uniformity in the way the various models handle the automation interface (RS232 and Discrete IR). This version is in line with that effort, but may be subject to some slight changes as they progress.

This version also has a configuration feature so touching the INI file should not be necessary. The first time you run it with the supplied INI file it will solict information from the user and the rewrite the INI file so it is tailored to your system.

Thanx, Barry.

if the pio accepts 1080p (which may do), most panel scalers are better at downconverting then upconverting - so if it receives 1080p, the DVDO will still do the deinterlacing (the hardest bit) and upscaling.... give it a try ..... it may be not bad....

It does accept 1080p24 but not 1080p50 or 1080p60, damn engineers :o

I haven't seen a single 768p plasma that would accept the panels native resolution through HDMI or DVI at 50Hz. That's why I might be looking for a 1080p plasma next time, then I could scale everything to 1080p with VP50 (and more pixels in upscaling means better pq).

It does accept 1080p24 but not 1080p50 or 1080p60, damn engineers :o

I haven't seen a single 768p plasma that would accept the panels native resolution through HDMI or DVI at 50Hz. That's why I might be looking for a 1080p plasma next time, then I could scale everything to 1080p with VP50 (and more pixels in upscaling means better pq).

when I was looking for my plasma, the one I chose, the NEC XR5 50" only accepts 60hz at 1:1.. and even though I was worried, I can't see any judder.... recently pioneer has launched the 50mx20, which (maybe) does accept 1:1 at 50 & 60 [EdIT], etc.... but its too late for me now.... mine will have to do until I can get a 55-60 1080p .... ;)

and you're right... its pretty hard to find a 1:1 plasma these days .....

be careful with 1080p, since some 1080p panels still process the signal .... you need to find one which has a 'full pixel mode' or something similar.... the Pioneer 1080p 50" does for sure.... but its still a bit expensive here in Australia....

when I was looking for my plasma, the one I chose, the NEC XR5 50" only accepts 60hz at 1:1.. and even though I was worried, I can't see any judder.... recently pioneer has launched the 50mx20, which does accept 1:1 at 50, 60, 48, 72, etc.... but its too late for me now....

Actually, from what I've read (http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3781029&postcount=53) , there is only support for 60Hz with 1:1 (no 50Hz, 48Hz, 72Hz or 1080p24). So no need to feel any remorse :rolleyes:

50Hz > 60Hz conversion should cause some judder, since every fifth frame has to be displayed twice. But I guess VP50 does quite nice job with this. To get rid of that judder, you'd propably have to buy a 20k$ piece of equipment that's able to do motion compensated framerate conversion.

Actually, from what I've read (http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3781029&postcount=53) , there is only support for 60Hz with 1:1 (no 50Hz, 48Hz, 72Hz or 1080p24). So no need to feel any remorse :rolleyes:

50Hz > 60Hz conversion should cause some judder, since every fifth frame has to be displayed twice. But I guess VP50 does quite nice job with this. To get rid of that judder, you'd propably have to buy a 20k$ piece of equipment that's able to do motion compensated framerate conversion.

but not with the 1.03 firmware there it is awefull bad !!

also with 1.01 there is a small judder in horizontal text scrolling. it gone with 50p

I'm using VP30 and VP50 with Panny 42PH9 and 50PH9 at 60Hz. I really can't se any judder. If someone could point out a scene or something, where it would be visible I'll check.

I'm using VP30 and VP50 with Panny 42PH9 and 50PH9 at 60Hz. I really can't se any judder. If someone could point out a scene or something, where it would be visible I'll check.

The opening credits sequence to the movie Sahara is a good test for judder.

I’ve been hesitant to install the latest firmware update thinking that if I did (due to some comments on this string), that 1080/24 would become unwatchable.

Well I’ve been playing with 1080/24 for a week now with my new projector (1000U) and I can’t watch 1080P/24 – 24 hz. It looks glorious for a minute or two and then starts to tear shake, judder or whatever other term there is to describe it. This is with a 1080i / 60 input from my PS3 or Toshiba X1 or 480i from my Oppo 970.

I’ve found that if I select the 1080P / 24 – 48hz setting for the 1080i inputs, it looks very good without anything funky going on. 480i input seams to look best at 1080P / 60 -60 hz. I’m not sure what’s going on, but 1080P / 24 at any frame rate with 480i input looks funky. I almost feel drunk watching it. Satellite SD feed also looks best at 1080P / 60 -60 hz output.

Seeing how I’m having trouble with 1080P/24, is there any reason to not install this last firmware? Will I loose anything else?? With the fixed audio issues, I’m really looking forward to routing my sources to the VP first (verses going into my receiver first) so I can stop fiddling with lip sync.

mdrew,

I would say go ahead and install it. 1080p24 is the only issue for me. With 1.01, I was able to watch at 24 for awhile, but could not go more than 30 min or so without some problem. So I stopped using it anyways. With 1.03, it is completely unwatchable.

With 1.03, my problems with menus and the info screen are gone. Everything else seems stable to me. So go with 1.03, forget about 1080p24 for now until they get it fixed - which I am more confident that it will get done right from what I have heard recently.

ArtOj

I am almost ready to post a new version of the utility. This version was developed with some help from DVDO in the area of RS232 and IR automation.

Do not worry about the diagnostic. I know why it is coming up and it will not affect the use of the loader capability fo the utility

Thank´s for info Barry :)

mdrew,

I would say go ahead and install it. 1080p24 is the only issue for me. With 1.01, I was able to watch at 24 for awhile, but could not go more than 30 min or so without some problem. So I stopped using it anyways. With 1.03, it is completely unwatchable.

With 1.03, my problems with menus and the info screen are gone. Everything else seems stable to me. So go with 1.03, forget about 1080p24 for now until they get it fixed - which I am more confident that it will get done right from what I have heard recently.


Thanks!

I'll give r' a whirl this weekend. I'm in the same boat as you, I can't watch 1080P 24/24 but for a little while anyway.

I am not sure how you know that turning off Progressive Cadence detection is "freaking easy" (relative to some of these persistent bugs) but that aside our intention for the next release(s) for the VP50 are:

1080p-24
Progressive Cadence Detection On/Off Capability
Passthrough
I want to give a great thanks for planning to fix the progressive cadence detection issue with progressive inputs. I've been sitting mostly silent on this issue as sidb has been a great advocate of it :) but I too have been waiting for it.

2) 240p video

Alternately, if simple Bob Mode deinterlacing were offered, users could manually select it when they knew the content was 240p. Bob deinterlacing with no enhancement algorithms is effectively correct interpretation of 240p.
Wouldn't bob deinterlacing cause a vertical "vibrate" on still material? The reason is that the bob deinterlacing would assume that the scanlines in alternate frames are on the other of the even or odd rows, rather than in the exact same position. I don't think any deinterlacing algorithm intended for 480i material will correctly handle 240p material, except true 240p handling.

I would appreciate true 240p handling also. I keep DScaler around largely for this reason. But at this point, if the progressive cadence detection fix is coming, then I'll probably just get an X-RGB-2(+) and run it through the VP50, as they don't cost very much and I'll get the same result. (This would result in less lag than using DScaler.)

However, this isn't as elegant or hassle-free as using one device, and also, one big annoyance is that the X-RGB-2(+) doesn't have component inputs (which matters for the PS2 and for emulated games on new consoles). Furthermore, with game consoles, you have to unplug and re-plug between the S-Video and component connectors, as they all use custom connectors, so there's no way I can use a switching device to do it. At least I can switch between DScaler (for which I use a capture card with component inputs) and the VP-50 with my mechanical component switcher that I have "turned around" as a switched splitter.

Wouldn't bob deinterlacing cause a vertical "vibrate" on still material? The reason is that the bob deinterlacing would assume that the scanlines in alternate frames are on the other of the even or odd rows, rather than in the exact same position.It depends on how the VP handles it. Bob is just line doubling -- each line of input becomes two lines of output (before scaling). If the VP tries to get fancy and vertically offset the doubled lines depending on whether they were derived from an odd or even input field (using 480i terminology here), it will appear to vibrate for 240p material, but otherwise, it will look correct. Dale has said that Game Mode 1 could be turned into bob by flipping one bit -- I wonder whether that would result in vibration or not. It just depends how it was implemented.

I'll probably just get an X-RGB-2(+) and run it through the VP50... However, this isn't as elegant or hassle-free as using one device, and also, one big annoyance is that the X-RGB-2(+) doesn't have component inputsThat's exactly what I do. The XRGB-2+ has RGB input and component input. Component input is through adapter dongles, one for the d-terminal port and one for the J-SCART port. Both dongles are provided. I only use the RGB input normally, but I have used component before, and it works.

Furthermore, with game consoles, you have to unplug and re-plug...I have mine set up so that I can turn on any one console and it magically appears onscreen without pressing any buttons. The old consoles all go to the XRGB, which goes to the VP50, and the new ones get split, so they go both directly to the VP50 and through the XRGB. That way, if I want to play a 240p game on a new console, I just switch inputs on the VP50. Otherwise, my various external signal-sensing switches and the VP50's input priority take care of everything. When I get a console with HDMI, I won't be able to route it through the XRGB anymore, but hopefully I won't be playing too many 240p games on PS3 or XBox 360 Elite.

I just got my VP 50 in the mail yesterday and I was curious if the new units ship with the latest software in them? If not, then what is the best wat to check and/or get the software.

Probably does contain the latest NON-BETA firmware. Does it contain the latest Beta firmware? I suspect not since it may have been sitting on a shelf (Distributers or DVDO) before the latest upgrade and I would doubt they would do an upgrade on a boxed and sealed unit.

The firmware is on the web site.

I just got my VP 50 in the mail yesterday and I was curious if the new units ship with the latest software in them? If not, then what is the best wat to check and/or get the software.

Pressing the Info button on the remote will tell you which firmware is installed.

Probably does contain the latest NON-BETA firmware. Does it contain the latest Beta firmware? I suspect not since it may have been sitting on a shelf (Distributers or DVDO) before the latest upgrade and I would doubt they would do an upgrade on a boxed and sealed unit.

The firmware is on the web site.

Yep;
... and I doubt they would ever ship anything but the officially released firmware.

In this case you are very likely to already have the latest (1.00), since there has not been another official release since. :D
That said, I would still update to 1.03 beta.
____
Axel

Thanks!

I'll give r' a whirl this weekend. I'm in the same boat as you, I can't watch 1080P 24/24 but for a little while anyway.
Just take note that it also breaks 48hz output. :rolleyes:

It depends on how the VP handles it. Bob is just line doubling -- each line of input becomes two lines of output (before scaling). If the VP tries to get fancy and vertically offset the doubled lines depending on whether they were derived from an odd or even input field (using 480i terminology here), it will appear to vibrate for 240p material, but otherwise, it will look correct. Dale has said that Game Mode 1 could be turned into bob by flipping one bit -- I wonder whether that would result in vibration or not. It just depends how it was implemented.

I'm pretty sure that's exactly the change that would be needed. I think Bob is called Bob because it always Bobs.

Guys --thanks for the info about the firmware. Quick question: What have you found to be the best output set-up for directv hr-20 700? Any input would be great. I am a super newbie to this processor stuff.

Output setup is fairly independent of what the input is, BUT very dependent on what the PJ or TV is. You want to match the VPxx output to what the display likes the best. By "likes the best" I mean that it is just what the display wants natively so it will NOT attempt to scale or adjust it. After all this is what you bought the VPXX for.

If your display is digital (DLP, LCOS, DILA, LCD) you want to try and get a 1:1 pixel mapping between the output of the VPxx and the display and DVDO supplies test patterns to check that. When a 1:1 mapping is achieved the VP sends out data for each pixel point on the displays screen and at just the right time. This eliminates any display internal conversions.

Guys --thanks for the info about the firmware. Quick question: What have you found to be the best output set-up for directv hr-20 700? Any input would be great. I am a super newbie to this processor stuff.

I'm still using an HR10-250, but from what I have read, I would think you want the HR20-700 resolution set to Native mode, so that the VP-50, not the HR20, is doing all scaling/etc. But, that may slow down channel changes across formats, as all the pieces need to resync.

eric

Output setup is fairly independent of what the input is, BUT very dependent on what the PJ or TV is. You want to match the VPxx output to what the display likes the best. By "likes the best" I mean that it is just what the display wants natively so it will NOT attempt to scale or adjust it. After all this is what you bought the VPXX for.

If your display is digital (DLP, LCOS, DILA, LCD) you want to try and get a 1:1 pixel mapping between the output of the VPxx and the display and DVDO supplies test patterns to check that. When a 1:1 mapping is achieved the VP sends out data for each pixel point on the displays screen and at just the right time. This eliminates any display internal conversions.

Barry --I own a Panny 58" 60u --could you give me a little feedback when using that display with an HDMI output.

So anyone want to suggest the odds of Noise reduction being added to the VP50?

I am looking at buying one but mpeg noise reduction is important...
Bob

I think Bob is called Bob because it always Bobs.Unless it's just treated as a decrease in resolution and then scaled up. This is all so tedious to describe verbally -- how about an image?
http://www.homepage.mac.com/sidb/images/bob.gif

Say [1] is the original (ugly) image. Then [2] is how a bob deinterlacer will expand an odd frame to fill in the missing even scanlines (drawn shaded). There are two ways to handle the even fields. In [3], the even lines are copied upward. This means that a doubled odd line or a doubled even line both fit in the same space, and 240p would look correct without appearing to vibrate. In [4], the even lines are doubled downward. This results in the exact same image as [3] except shifted down by one pixel. This might look better for 480i -- I'm not actually sure -- but it would shake 240p.

It occurs to me that a VP30 does bob deinterlacing for 1080i, correct? Does anyone know whether it handles even fields as [3] or as [4]? Or does anyone (Dale, maybe) know what Game Mode 1 would do if it became a simple bob with no further enhancement?

donatelloa,

Sorry I am not at all familiar with that display.

In general you want to find out what the native resolution of the display is. How many pixels wide and how many high. My PJ for example is 1280x720p. You then want to set the VP output to the same thing. That may or may not do it. On my PJ I had to also set the system toanamorphic to turn off any attempt to rescale the picture. It differs on every display.

If your set is a Panny TH-58PX60U 58" High Definition Plasma TV then the native pixel density (native resolution) is 1366x768 which is 1.78:1 which is 16:9. The VP50 has several output formats at 1366x768 and one at 1365x766. I would start with those and double check the two test patterns, alternate vertical lines and alternate horizontal lines. If 1:1 pixel matching exists there should be very distinct lines 1 pixel wide when viewed up close.

Best suggestion is to post here and the other VP forum (VP30) and inquire if anyone has set up your display with a VP30 or VP60 to get 1:1 pixel mapping. If they have they could probably tell you the values.

Sorry donatelloa, your display will probably only accept 480i/p, 576i/p, 720p and 1080i/p

No Panny will accept native trough HDMI. Hopefully except the new 1080 panels.

Do you want native 1:1, you have to use the pro-models with DVI.

any news, rumors, speculation if the VP50 will ever get noise reduction?

^I am no longer holding my breath waiting for that... :rolleyes:

Say [1] is the original (ugly) image. Then [2] is how a bob deinterlacer will expand an odd frame to fill in the missing even scanlines (drawn shaded). There are two ways to handle the even fields. In [3], the even lines are copied upward. This means that a doubled odd line or a doubled even line both fit in the same space, and 240p would look correct without appearing to vibrate. In [4], the even lines are doubled downward. This results in the exact same image as [3] except shifted down by one pixel. This might look better for 480i -- I'm not actually sure -- but it would shake 240p.
But then to handle 240p correctly,

(1) the even and odd fields have to be copied alternatingly up and down a scanline (rather than always the same direction as you explain), and
(2) it has to copy the pixels from only one scanline, rather than interpolate between the two scanlines present, the latter of which would produce far better quality for any 480i source.

So although a straight "copy bob" algorithm might be present, it wouldn't be because that would ever be an effective deinterlacing algorithm for a 480i source. In any case, it doesn't seem like the logic to implement 240p handling would be very complex, as there are no heuristics--it's a simple algorithm to perform a perfect "deinterlace" (scale, really).

It occurs to me that a VP30 does bob deinterlacing for 1080i, correct? Does anyone know whether it handles even fields as [3] or as [4]? Or does anyone (Dale, maybe) know what Game Mode 1 would do if it became a simple bob with no further enhancement?
From memory of what I've read in other threads, the VP30 scales 1080i fields as a single operation without a separate deinterlacing step. Therefore, it is nearly equivalent to a vertically interpolating bob, but with slightly higher accuracy (because the scaling coefficients operate only on actually present scanlines, not interpolated scanlines).

to handle 240p corrrectly, (1) the even and odd fields have to be copied alternatingly up and down a scanline (rather than always the same direction as you explain)I think we agree, and you misread me. I said what you said.

[to handle 240p corrrectly,] (2) it has to copy the pixels from only one scanline, rather than interpolate between the two scanlines present, the latter of which would produce far better quality for any 480i source.I think we misunderstand each other here. When you say "interpolate," do you mean constructing pixels that aren't exact copies of an existing scanline? That's what the more advanced deinterlacing modes do. Simple bob doesn't; it's a mode that doen't exist in the VP50 but could by simply disabling edge-adaptive processing from Game Mode 1. So then the question I was asking was, would that new, simpler mode vertically shift every even field a little bit relative to the odd fields, or would it line them up in the same place?

In any case, I only phrased everything in terms of copying lines because line-doubling is already a familiar concept, and it makes things easy to draw and explain. Scaling each field into a complete frame as if the field's scanlines touched, with twice the vertical scaling factor as horizontal, would produce correct 240p, would be equivalent to [3] from my drawing (copying even fields upward, assuming odd fields always copy downward), and would be what you describe for 1080i processing in the VP30.

I think we agree, and you misread me. I said what you said.
I meant to say that you said what I said...I meant for the "as you explain" to mean that your entire explanation matched mine, not that it differed from mine. :) I just wanted to restate the two reasons to emphasize that it didn't seem likely that the functionality was present but just waiting to be switched on.

I think we misunderstand each other here. When you say "interpolate," do you mean constructing pixels that aren't exact copies of an existing scanline? That's what the more advanced deinterlacing modes do. Simple bob doesn't; it's a mode that doen't exist in the VP50 but could by simply disabling edge-adaptive processing from Game Mode 1. So then the question I was asking was, would that new, simpler mode vertically shift every even field a little bit relative to the odd fields, or would it line them up in the same place?
By interpolate I mean averaging the pixels of the lines above and below. This is what most motion-adaptive deinterlacers, which don't have diagonal processing, do. This is what DScaler's "Simple Bob" mode does. (In areas with edges, you can see the "vibrate", but in areas with smooth shading, it looks virtually motionless due to the interpolation, even though technically it's still "vibrating" at a rate of 30Hz.)

In any case, I only phrased everything in terms of copying lines because line-doubling is already a familiar concept, and it makes things easy to draw and explain. Scaling each field into a complete frame as if the field's scanlines touched, with twice the vertical scaling factor as horizontal, would produce correct 240p, would be equivalent to [3] from my drawing (copying even fields upward, assuming odd fields always copy downward), and would be what you describe for 1080i processing in the VP30.
I believe the VP30 would treat the scanlines of each field as where they actually are in the field, not as overlaid on top of each other (which would be incorrect as it would shift alternating fields up or down by a scanline).

There are three relevant kinds of game console output for video processors:

1) 480p, 720p, 1080p
2) 240p video
3) 480i video (or 1080i for the rare games that support it).
You missed out :
1) 576p
2) 288p video
3) 576i video

For those living outside Japan and USA. ;)

Looking forward to being able to deactivate Progressive Cadence Detection for my Nintendo Wii, hoping it's going to enable me to finally beat the kids.

StooMonster

Just turned on my system and VP50 came up with a the "SERIOUS ERROR 12" message. I did a hard reset with the menu and exit buttons but it boots back up with the message after running all it's checks.
Red LED is on and display remains on with or without any cables.
Version 1.01 is installed, apparently by dealer.

Is there some other way to get this thing back up and running?


bigbro

Just curious, did you ever solve this?

Since going from 1.00 to 1.03, I've not seen the error message anymore (knock on wood) and what few audio dropouts I got from playing DVDs are gone also.

jeff_tyrrill and sidb

If VP50 allowed you to select 'Field Scale' * for 480i/576i would it have the same result? i.e. treat 480i/576i as if it were 240p/288p?

* currently 'Field Scale' deinterlacing is only allowed for 1080i

Even if not a complete solution, would it be an improvement?

StooMonster

RTK,

No official word yet.

big_marcello,

I haven't tried the 50MX20 yet, nor the 42MXE20, but given all other units in this series did work with 1:1 at ...er... every rate I've tried, it's a pretty good guess it will work. My 42MXE10 was (and still is) the only HD plasma on earth that works flawlessly with NR at 50 and 60hz.

jeff_tyrrill and sidb

If VP50 allowed you to select 'Field Scale' * for 480i/576i would it have the same result? i.e. treat 480i/576i as if it were 240p/288p?

* currently 'Field Scale' deinterlacing is only allowed for 1080i

Even if not a complete solution, would it be an improvement?

StooMonster
I just fired up DScaler and the VP50 to play around with this...and made what might be a remarkable discovery.

In Game Mode 1, and only Game Mode 1, the VP50 appears to detect and handle 240p. Here is my evidence for this:

First of all, to setup, let me state that I have trained myself to recognize the "vibrate" that Simple Bob causes. This vibrate is visible in high contrast areas (such as the edges of letters in on-screen menus), but in soft areas, such as gradients or low-detail areas of photos, it is virtually invisible because the interpolated pixel is nearly exactly the same color as the actual pixel that appears in the next field.

According to posts in this forum by either Dale or somebody else from DVDO (I don't remember and don't know where to look now--maybe in one of the hundred pages in this thread), we know that Game Mode 1 works by generating frames solely from a single field. No information or heuristics are used from previous or next fields. Thus, only spatial, not temporal, techniques are used. Therefore, in high-detail areas, Game Mode 1 will always generate a "vibrate" effect, because there is simply no overlap in the information present between one field and the next when generating frames. Low detail areas won't really have a visible vibrate for the same reason I explained in the last paragraph.

This is confirmed when I use Game Mode 1 on a 480i source (specifically the menus in my DVD player). It is much the same as when I set DScaler to Simple Bob. I see the vibrate in high-detail areas and see nearly complete stillness in low-detail areas with smooth gradients.

However, I tried Game Mode 1 on both a couple of SNES games and an N64 game (all outputting 240p). This time, I saw virtual stillness through all areas of the picture, even high-detail areas. If I am understanding this all correctly, this can only happen if the 240p handling is occurring--that is, scanlines from one half of the fields (either the even or odd) is being shifted up (or down) one scanline and the other is not--clearly incorrect handling for 480i content but correct for 240p content. Therefore, the scanlines transmitted by the console are being displayed in the same position always, and the other half are always being generated from the diagonal algorithm.

If Game Mode 1 always performed this field shift, then a "vibrate" would be visible on 480i content in all areas of the image, even low-detail images. I checked very carefully for this, as this is the key to proving that the VP50 is specifically detecting 240p content and changing its handling, and did not see this "vibrate".

Does this all make sense? sidb, can you look into this and confirm or refute what I've stated?

Have we all been asking for a feature that the VP50 already has?

Even if so, I think disabling diagonal detection and using simple vertical interpolation (or field-scaling the entire scanlines as part of the scaling) would be superior. The diagonal interpolation causes "instability" (blinking dots) when there are what would otherwise be imperceptible changes in the signal field-to-field (in other words it uses hard thresholds in its direction decision).

DScaler's "Old Game" mode still looks a bit better than the VP50's 240p handling in Game Mode 1. But I simply never bothered to actually check before, since nobody ever stated that the VP50 has this feature, and if I am correct, it would have had to be specifically added (480i handling would be incorrect for 240p). But according to my testing, it indeed has been.

Actually, from what I've read (http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3781029&postcount=53) , there is only support for 60Hz with 1:1 (no 50Hz, 48Hz, 72Hz or 1080p24). So no need to feel any remorse :rolleyes:

50Hz > 60Hz conversion should cause some judder, since every fifth frame has to be displayed twice. But I guess VP50 does quite nice job with this. To get rid of that judder, you'd propably have to buy a 20k$ piece of equipment that's able to do motion compensated framerate conversion.

yap, you're right and Ofer corrected me also ....

the judder is not notceable to me in 'normal' viewing conditions... but on scrolling text and long pans you can 'see' it.. but its not 'in your face' .... I think how much you notice judder is probably similar to how much you notice rainbow effects on DLP ... I can see tons of rainbow effects on DLP projectors......

$20k .. definitely out my reach mate..... the VP50 is about my limit on my 'switch box' ...... $20k would make good inroads into paying the African trip I'm planning with my wife for later in the year... and as much as I like my scaler... its not as good as a decent holiday .... ;)

RTK,

No official word yet.

big_marcello,

I haven't tried the 50MX20 yet, nor the 42MXE20, but given all other units in this series did work with 1:1 at ...er... every rate I've tried, it's a pretty good guess it will work. My 42MXE10 was (and still is) the only HD plasma on earth that works flawlessly with NR at 50 and 60hz.

thanks Ofer! As usual you're spot on.

Cheers,

Marcelo

Has anyone had any problems with random white sparklies on screen?

Has anyone had any problems with random white sparklies on screen?

Bad or marginal cable?

_____
Axel

Bad or marginal cable?

_____
Axel

Thanks,


I'm using Mark grant cables throughout and have noticed sparklies whether using HDMI out of VP50 and RGBHV, video inputs are not changed.

Test patterns from VP50 show no sparklies, they are there when viewing video from inputs.

Has anyone had any problems with random white sparklies on screen?
I get pixels of odd colour on Nintendo Wii over Component 2 input, but I thought it was due to bug in console.

StooMonster

I did get a mass amount of sparklies with the oppo 970 connceted via HDMI the other day but after a few seconds the image seemed to refresh or re-sync itself and they totally dissapeared.

Again these were white, not coloured.

Now i have them evident on everything else, 360 input via component and SkyHD (sd channels only) via HDMI or component input, oppo is still clear last time i looked today.

thanks Ofer! As usual you're spot on.

Cheers,

Marcelo

Hi Marcelo

Sorry throw a spanner, but CJ and I did test the 50MXE20 a while back when it first came out, but it doesn't support NR at 50Hz. It still supported the same rez as the 50MXE10, but the physical rez of the MXE20 is different - complete pain in the ar*e. I was very hopeful that it was THE screen, but it was a no go.

pete S

Hi Marcelo

Sorry throw a spanner, but CJ and I did test the 50MXE20 a while back when it first came out, but it doesn't support NR at 50Hz. It still supported the same rez as the 50MXE10, but the physical rez of the MXE20 is different - complete pain in the ar*e. I was very hopeful that it was THE screen, but it was a no go.

pete S
thanks pete ..... bummmer ... the 42" is the almost perfect panel ... but its a 42" only .... so the hope probably lies in the 5000EX (Elite) 1080p .....

at least I'm happy to wait until the price drops since my NEC XR5 is not yet 12 months old.... and only takes 1:1 @ 60hz .....

so the hope probably lies in the 5000EX (Elite) 1080p
I've had Pioneer PDP-5000EX (Elite) 1080p 50-inch plasma since June-06, and can confirm that it accepts 50Hz, 60Hz, 24Hz at native 1920x1080 resolution and has 1:1 dot-match mode.

Works great with VP50, although it's own processing is a cut above the quality usually found built into displays.

StooMonster

Just take note that it also breaks 48hz output. :rolleyes:

Glad I decided to read this thread again today. I reckon I better wait for DVDO's next attempt at a firmware fix becuase I do like 1080P-24 / 48. Dangitalltohellanyway.....

• Noise Reduction
• Detail Enhancement

is gone now?

prospekt (http://www.itl-net.at/download/DVDO_VP50_bro_PP.pdf)

Stoo,

Right, PDP5000EX has officially supported NR since CES06, I believe it was the first FHD panel to do that.

big_marcello,

(blush)

• Noise Reduction
• Detail Enhancement

is gone now?

prospekt (http://www.itl-net.at/download/DVDO_VP50_bro_PP.pdf)
It's still listed on that brochure, but it's never been implemented in the actual VP50 product.

I would hope that the brochure was not released for public consumption by DVDO as it's clearly false and misleading.

thanks pete ..... bummmer ... the 42" is the almost perfect panel ... but its a 42" only .... so the hope probably lies in the 5000EX (Elite) 1080p .....

at least I'm happy to wait until the price drops since my NEC XR5 is not yet 12 months old.... and only takes 1:1 @ 60hz .....

I'm pinning my hopes on the new Pana range - the yet to be announced TH-50PF10. The TH-50PY750 (i.e. the tv rather than panel) seems to have all things we'd want (and the manual even hints at a 1:1 no overscan mode) and will probably retail for only a bit over half the 5000EX. I'm hopeful the panel version PF10 will finally be a screen which supports NR @ 50Hz over HDMI for a (half) reasonable price. I also personally prefer the image on pana's rather than pio's.

Stoo,

Right, PDP5000EX has officially supported NR since CES06, I believe it was the first FHD panel to do that.

big_marcello,

(blush)

I would love one of those too ....... one day! I play the lotto from time to time.... ;)

It's still listed on that brochure, but it's never been implemented in the actual VP50 product.

I would hope that the brochure was not released for public consumption by DVDO as it's clearly false and misleading.Well, I know CES isn't technically "open to the public," but I just checked my DVDO brochure I received from their booth back in January, and can confirm that it looks exactly like the one linked to by blackbird above. Including (on two different pages, without asterisks, disclaimers or qualifications) Noise Reduction and Detail Enhancement as features specifically available only in the VP50. Of course, even PReP (also listed as a VP50 feature) still isn't officially out of beta yet, so who knows what they might still pull out of their hat? Josh (or anyone else who might be in a position to actually know) seems unwilling and/or unable to tell us what we can reasonably expect from future firmware updates. :confused:

--John

(Still holding off purchasing a VP50, but not holding my breath...)

Well, I know CES isn't technically "open to the public," but I just checked my DVDO brochure I received from their booth back in January, and can confirm that it looks exactly like the one linked to by blackbird above. Including (on two different pages, without asterisks, disclaimers or qualifications) Noise Reduction and Detail Enhancement as features specifically available only in the VP50. Of course, even PReP (also listed as a VP50 feature) still isn't officially out of beta yet, so who knows what they might still pull out of their hat? Josh (or anyone else who might be in a position to actually know) seems unwilling and/or unable to tell us what we can reasonably expect from future firmware updates. :confused:

--John

(Still holding off purchasing a VP50, but not holding my breath...)
I was there too, and Josh specifically mentioned the NR and DH, but since I don't recall his exact words I won't speculate other than to say I'm 100% sure he said they were coming for the VP50.

(what the hell, I will speculate, I'm 75% certain he said something along a March/April timeframe.)

(Still holding off purchasing a VP50, but not holding my breath...)
Me too. All this seems scary, especially something that should be a major feature (24p output). The draconian warranty doesn't help either if I wanted to just get one used so it doesn't hurt so much to have features not work. For now though there isn't a very good alternative. :(

I just double checked and my Toshiba brochure from 2006 CES had SED fully shipping Q4 2006... :p

Sorry if these questions have already been answered previously, I just want to make sure I'm clear on a couple questions....

Has anyone been able to use the VP50 w/ the PS3 (via HDMI and 1080P output) and tested it with full 7.1 PCM audio? Any issues? What firmware are/were you using? Any problems with the lip sync delay and 7.1 PCM Audio?

Also just want to make sure I want to understand some of the performace issues if gaming when a console is configured for progressive output (either 720p or 1080p). There are issues because turn of the Progressive Cadence Detection? And the game modes are ready just de-interlacing modes and since its progressive content those modes don't apply, correct?

I'm mainly looking at the VP50 for CIH setup and will be sending it 1080p60 output from the PS3 and will also be hooking up a PC w/ 1080p output(via HDMI). (will be outputing to 1080p display) When playing blu-ray movies I'm not worried about the video delays, but if I decide to do any gaming via either the PS3 or the PC, then I would like the delays to be as minimal as possible. (I will also have a XBox 360, but it will be configured for 1080i so I'm not really concerned here).

Thanks for everyones help!

Mike

I just double checked and my Toshiba brochure from 2006 CES had SED fully shipping Q4 2006... :pHeh... And where the @#$% is my flying car, already?!? :D

--John

Also just want to make sure I want to understand some of the performace issues if gaming when a console is configured for progressive output (either 720p or 1080p). There are issues because turn of the Progressive Cadence Detection? And the game modes are ready just de-interlacing modes and since its progressive content those modes don't apply, correct?
Correct on the Game Modes--they are deinterlacing modes only and don't apply to progressive content.

For the delays on progressive content due to progressive cadence detection, Josh has announced that there will be an option to disable this coming very shortly, so I'd say it's safe to assume this is coming and the delay with games is not something to worry about any longer. I might also add that the delay is not that large anyway--but it matters for certain types of timing-sensitive games. On some other games, it's just not an issue at all.

Heh... And where the @#$% is my flying car, already?!? :D




You must of missed all the last minute order deadlines for one of them..... ;)

http://www.retrofuture.com/flyingcar.html

http://www.davidszondy.com/future/Flight/aerocar.htm


But there might be a list forming for this one.

http://www.volanteaircraft.com/flying-car-flight.htm

You must of missed all the last minute order deadlines for one of them..... ;)

http://www.retrofuture.com/flyingcar.html

http://www.davidszondy.com/future/Flight/aerocar.htm


But there might be a list forming for this one.

http://www.volanteaircraft.com/flying-car-flight.htm

To that, I will add this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/354129.stm

To that, I will add this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/354129.stm

Ohhhhhhhh, that's a racy one. With quad ducted fan power!


http://www.moller.com/

ABT guys, when are you going to fix 1080i60 > 1080p24 output?

Right now I have to connect my PS3 and Tosh XE1 directly to my display to get the best pq, so I'm using VP50 just to deinterlace cable tv (which is still quite awful without Block Artifact Removal and Mosquito NR). There isn't much point to keep a 4000$ (=3000€ in Finland) device for only this one purpose, and I hope you hurry with the fix.

"Silence is golden..."

ABT guys, when are you going to fix 1080i60 > 1080p24 output?



We will have a new firmware release this week, which addresses 1080p24 input and output.

We will have a new firmware release this week, which addresses 1080p24 input and output.

hi josh, and what is with the pal users ? 50 HZ input and 60hz output ? heavy judder or loosing frames ? (this fault was not at 1.01 or 1.0 ? did you fix this also ?

Frame rate conversion, in general, is improved in v1.04.

Frame rate conversion, in general, is improved in v1.04.

Thanks Josh;
This is great news!

Will this be another beta? Just curious...
____
Axel

Frame rate conversion, in general, is improved in v1.04.
Thanks for the feedback.
I continue to be hopeful of a fix for this. In my system, it is the only major problem I am waiting for a solution. (I had to go back to 1.01 from 1.03 to get any use at all from the 1080p/24 output.)

I noticed that the latest beta firmware did not wipe out all of my settings. Was this a fluke or is now standard for firmware upgrades? I hope the later.... SJ

I noticed that the latest beta firmware did not wipe out all of my settings. Was this a fluke or is now standard for firmware upgrades? I hope the later.... SJ

As I understand it, it depends on which firware you're upgrading from and which one you're upgrading to.

For example, if you upgrade from 1.01 to 1.03 you might not lose your settings, whereas if you upgrade from 1.00 to 1.03 you would.

(This may not be a real example. I just use it as a hypothetical.)

A new beta FW?

Wow...that was fast. :)

We will have a new firmware release this week, which addresses 1080p24 input and output.

Frame rate conversion, in general, is improved in v1.04.

This it great news. I was hoping for a new ferimware soon. This might be the one that decides it all for me.

How do you VP50 owners think the DVDO compares to other scalers with Gennum or Realta chips?

Also, is it worth to get a unit with SDI or will HDMI with PreP get the job done just as well?

Thanks for the feedback.
I continue to be hopeful of a fix for this. In my system, it is the only major problem I am waiting for a solution. (I had to go back to 1.01 from 1.03 to get any use at all from the 1080p/24 output.)

I have watched several hours of judder-free content using a VP50, loaded with v1.04, and a JVC RS1.

I have watched several hours of judder-free content using a VP50, loaded with v1.04, and a JVC RS1.

That is exactly my configuration! Bring it on!

If the DVDO VP50 can do this, in my opinion, there is currently no other video processor to compete with it. The Crystallio 2, I believe is not capable of stable 1080p24 output and is not anywhere near as close as ABT to achieving it.

If the DVDO VP50 can do this, in my opinion, there is currently no other video processor to compete with it. The Crystallio 2, I believe is not capable of stable 1080p24 output and is not anywhere near as close as ABT to achieving it.

In addition to that, there are no other video processors on the market that can do cadence detection on a progressive input (like 720p-60 from ABC or FOX) and output it at 1080p-24 with no judder (given, or course that the content was shot at 24p).

Thanks Josh;
This is great news!

Will this be another beta? Just curious...
____
Axel

Yes, this will be a Beta release first.

All software must make it through public Beta testing before it is considered production-ready.

Thanks Josh - works for me!

I am ready to publicly beta test it :D
____
Axel

In addition to that, there are no other video processors on the market that can do cadence detection on a progressive input (like 720p-60 from ABC or FOX) and output it at 1080p-24 with no judder (given, or course that the content was shot at 24p).

So would this work if you were playing the ABC or FOX show thru a Home Theater PC?

I currently use a Media Center Edition PC to record and watch Over the Air HD. The PC will be hooked up via HDMI and 1080p output. Would the VP50 be able to detect the video being watched was 24p and then output it at 24p?

Thanks,
Mike

Frame rate conversion, in general, is improved in v1.04.

i will look forward to see it :-)))))

waiting for 1.04ß :-)))))

We will have a new firmware release this week, which addresses 1080p24 input and output.

That's great !! My JVC RS1 thanks you.

But you know we are never satisfied :).
This is going to be an "are you" not a when question Josh.

Are there future firmware plans for the VP50's Gamma adjustment routine to be "multi point' selective ? As it is now it kind of seems to me our Gamma featue was started but because of your working on and fixing other issues Gamma was never completed.

I would like to thank DVDO for continuing to release updates. I look forward to 1.04 and to whichever future release bring noise reduction.

Cheers to DVDO (and therefore Josh Et al) :D

Thank You so much Josh. A new hope on the horizon, looking forward to test it !

We will have a new firmware release this week, which addresses 1080p24 input and output.

My faith is back :D

And in future, when the cadence detection can be turned off, I'll have no problem routing both Blu-ray and PS3 games through VP50.

In addition to that, there are no other video processors on the market that can do cadence detection on a progressive input (like 720p-60 from ABC or FOX) and output it at 1080p-24 with no judder (given, or course that the content was shot at 24p).

Keyword "judder" - Since I have beta version 1.03 something very bad appeared when watching digital TV (standard definition) which wasn't before. I am talking about a judder / tremble effect. This issue usually appears when watching a soccer game like live broadcast of Champions League matches. There are not big judders like described with blue ray, but the motion of the SD picture is not fluently anymore.

Is there someone, who also recognized that problem?

Great news
Can't wait to beta test it :rolleyes:

Keyword "judder" - Since I have beta version 1.03 something very bad appeared when watching digital TV (standard definition) which wasn't before. I am talking about a judder / tremble effect. This issue usually appears when watching a soccer game like live broadcast of Champions League matches. There are not big judders like described with blue ray, but the motion of the SD picture is not fluently anymore.

Is there someone, who also recognized that problem?

yes i have the same, its not digital tv is also on 576i 50hz to 60hz, it like frame dropping.

also all other version have judder from 576i 50 hz to 60hz converting.

OK, while we are waiting for the new firmware to come out, a couple of questions.

Will it be possible to add an "Auto" output format - i.e. 1080p 24 or 60 based on whether the source is film or video? Certainly would be easier than manually switching.

What is the best output from the PS3 for a 1080p 24/60 capable display? I use 1080i from my XA2, but the PS3 does not go through the interlacing step for BD movies apparently - so is 1080p better? Would the recommendation change for games vs movies? Anyone still having problems with 1080p from the PS3 to the VP50?

Will it be possible to add an "Auto" output format - i.e. 1080p 24 or 60 based on whether the source is film or video? Certainly would be easier than manually switching.

The problem with an auto-switching feature like this would become apparent during breaks, transitions, or any other time the scaler can't determine the cadence. Your display would then have to readjust to the input frequency which could result in a momentary back screen or loss of sync. I know my CRT is takes a second or two to lock onto a new input signal. Some digital PJs with HDCP, etc. can take longer.

VP50 Beta Release v1.04 is available now: http://www.anchorbaytech.com/support/software_downloads/update/vp50.beta_agreement.1.04.php

This pre-release version of our software addresses and corrects the following bugs:

Addressed Frame-Rate Conversion logic error which broke 48Hz and other frame rates (when input/output different), rendering video output unwatchable.
Addressed 24Hz output tearing issue in Frame Buffer logic, causing bottom portion of output video to very badly tear occasionally (done early since logic is related to above “new” bug).
Addressed request to re-insert 2:2 Odd and 2:2 Even deinterlacer modes for customers with Sky-HD Service (Forced 2:2 option remains, and is operating fine for SD content)
Addressed corner case where switching from PReP 1080p input to non-PReP interlaced input set to “Field Scaling” would result in 400% magnification (due to invalid progressive-source flag)

Many thanks
Off I go to try it out!

Thanks Josh!

"Download Complete"

We look forward to your feedback!

I am still running 1.01 and noticed today that I was listening to a DTS Audio CD(first time I tried this) from my Oppo 970HD (via HDMI) and was getting audio dropouts on my Onkyo receiver, has this been fixed with new firmwares?

Some early feedback on 1.04.
My setup is Panasonic Blu Ray player outputting 1080i 60Hz to VP50 then to JVC HD1 (Australia/Europe version of RS1).
The VP50 is doing aspect ratio management as I am running a constant image height setup with a Prismasonic HE1500 anamorphic lens.
I have been troubled by the image tearing with 1080p24 output. It has occurred up to every 10 minutes and has been temporarily fixed by pausing and restarting DVD output. This problem was the same with 1.00 and 1.01 firmware and much worse with 1.03.

Now onto 1.04. I lost all my setup details this time. Not a worry.
Right now I am playing Fantastic Four. VP50 set to 1080p24
framerate locked to 24Hz. Deinterlacing set to Forced 3:2.
The JVC "hidden menu" shows 1080p 47.96Hz. I dont understand why.

After about one hour - no image tearing and judder free.(except of course for inherent film based judder that we even see at the Multiplex).

So far so good!!

How do you access the "hidden" menu on the JVC? I am interested to see if I am getting the same (mis)information.

How do you access the "hidden" menu on the JVC? I am interested to see if I am getting the same (mis)information.
Exit the normal PJ menu.

Then in very rapid succession input up, down, right. left. enter.

I am seeing the same thing, 47.96, although I am outputting 24Hz from the VP50.

But then again the same "hidden menu" also says the model is an HD1 even though the one I am using is clearly an RS1.

I look forward to feedback from others. But if this remains stable, then DVDO have really put the VP50 into state of the art territory.

The HD1/RS1 doubles the 24 input to 48, then displays it at 96 - don't ask me what that means. That's what I've read before and that's why it shows 48 on the JVC menu.

Updating now. Thanks!

I just downloaded v1.04 and tried out 24hz with King Kong HD-DVD on a A1 feeding a RS1. So far so good and no tearing. I'm trying to find scenes with pronounced 3:2 judder so I can see a difference between 24 and 60hz framerates but so far both modes seem very similar to me. Can anyone recommend a good acid test for viewing judder?

VP50 Beta Release v1.04 is available now: http://www.anchorbaytech.com/support/software_downloads/update/vp50.beta_agreement.1.04.php


Excellent! I will test the 1080p24 output tonight with Pioneer PDP-507XA plasma and PS3 + Tosh XE1.

I just downloaded v1.04 and tried out 24hz with King Kong HD-DVD on a A1 feeding a RS1. So far so good and no tearing. I'm trying to find scenes with pronounced 3:2 judder so I can see a difference between 24 and 60hz framerates but so far both modes seem very similar to me. Can anyone recommend a good acid test for viewing judder?

Hi Mark,
My only comment is that I have lived with PAL sources for years and the experience of 60Hz sources and 3:2 pulldown with the advent of HDDVD and Blu Ray to Australia was not so pleasant. I am able to easily see the improvement in judder with 24Hz. I have seen similar comments from others in PAL countries.

Hi Mark,
My only comment is that I have lived with PAL sources for years and the experience of 60Hz sources and 3:2 pulldown with the advent of HDDVD and Blu Ray to Australia was not so pleasant. I am able to easily see the improvement in judder with 24Hz. I have seen similar comments from others in PAL countries.

My Pioneer is able to reconstruct the 24fps signal from 1080i60 with "Pure Cinema", although I think I'll get even better performance with true 1080p24 signal (done by VP50). When I turn Pure Cinema off, all the pans are unwatchable (yep, I live in Finland and I'm not used to 3:2).

Many thanks Josh, earlier than I expected !

Can anyone recommend a good acid test for viewing judder?
Anything that pans or scrolling credits. When you've grown up in PAL-land with super smooth scrolling movie credits, the 3:2 judder version is horrible.

1080p24 from VP50 looks likes it's working properly. :)

StooMonster

After another couple of hours of viewing tonight with 1.04 firmware
(both Blu Ray and HD DVD) at 1080p24.

- no problems - finally!

No need that I can see to contemplate buying players with 24Hz outputs now that the VP50 is doing the framerate conversion well.

I just downloaded v1.04 and tried out 24hz with King Kong HD-DVD on a A1 feeding a RS1. So far so good and no tearing. I'm trying to find scenes with pronounced 3:2 judder so I can see a difference between 24 and 60hz framerates but so far both modes seem very similar to me. Can anyone recommend a good acid test for viewing judder?

Try the mountain panning scene at the beginning of Batman Begins - about 6 minutes in I think. That was the scene they were using in the HD DVD mobile trailer to demo smooth pans with the VP50/Marantz.

Excellent! I will test the 1080p24 output tonight with Pioneer PDP-507XA plasma and PS3 + Tosh XE1.

Should I choose 1080p or 1080i from PS3 (for Blu-ray films)?

Sorry to ruin the party but this firmware is not working properly with RS1 ( HD1) in 24p.
i always see judder, tearing and slowdown in the picture...not so bad as 1.03 or 1.01 but still..
So the 24p issue is not solved for my part :mad:

Sorry to ruin the party but this firmware is not working properly with RS1 ( HD1) in 24p.
i always see judder, tearing and slowdown in the picture...not so bad as 1.03 or 1.01 but still..
So the 24p issue is not solved for my part :mad:

Are you watching film-based content? If you use 24p output with video-based content, then what you are seeing is "normal".

i just installed the new firmware 1.04ß

Input: 576i50Hz Component and Output: 1080p60 HDMI
is now running without the frame drops.

there is only a small judder (it was also on 1.01 1.0) with video mode (which i think is the best) will there some more improovement for 50hz to 60hz conversion ?

what about an input shift for all inputs ? (horz. and vert.) ?

what about an input shift for all inputs ? (horz. and vert.) ?

What sources do have that require this feature?

there is only a small judder (it was also on 1.01 1.0) with video mode (which i think is the best) will there some more improovement for 50hz to 60hz conversion ?



This is expected and we have no plans to improve this in the VP50.

Just to make sure that everyone is doing the same thing when outputting 24p, there are 3 steps necessary on the iScan to do this:

1. Set frame rate output to 24Hz Locked

Output Setup -> Frame Rate -> 60Hz -> 24Hz Locked
Output Setup -> Frame Rate -> 24Hz -> 24Hz Locked

2. Set output format to 1080p-24

Output Setup -> Format -> 1080p-24

3. Additionally, for film based content (which is the only reason you would want to use a multiple of 24 as an output), set the deinterlacing mode to “Forced 3:2”

Input Adjust -> Deinterlacing -> Forced 3:2

Are you watching film-based content? If you use 24p output with video-based content, then what you are seeing is "normal".

Yes of course film based content :)
My config: HD DVD player XE1 ( euro version of XA2), PS3 and Panny BD10 in 1080i@60hz input and 1080p24 ,framerate @24hz output.
Tests made with Mission impossible 3 HD DVD, Sahara HD DVD and Casino Royale BD.
Running fine for 5 minutes but after that, just a microfreeze between plans switching for 5 another minutes and some tearing appears ( not in the bottom of the picture like previously but in the middle).
There's an improvement over 1.01 but it's not watchable for me :(

Yes of course film based content :)
My config: HD DVD player XE1 ( euro version of XA2), PS3 and Panny BD10 in 1080i@60hz input and 1080p24 ,framerate @24hz output.
Tests made with Mission impossible 3 HD DVD, Sahara HD DVD and Casino Royale BD.
Running fine for 5 minutes but after that, just a microfreeze between plans switching for 5 another minutes and some tearing appears ( not in the bottom of the picture like previously but in the middle).
There's an improvement over 1.01 but it's not watchable for me :(

Which "Deinterlacing" mode did you try?

I try auto mode and 3:2 force mode: same results.
even if in 3:2 force mode, i lose also some frames sometimes :confused:
Too bad because before this happens, it's really judder free.

What sources do have that require this feature?

at the moment i have component (YUV) inputs whith have a shift to the right where i want to move them a little more to the left.
(Sources: Nokia DBOX2 and Kenwood DVF-J6050 DVD Changers, European Models)
but i think it should be for all inputs this feature.(in the past i needed it for HDMI (horizontal)
The problem is that my YUV devices have all a shift to the right (about 10 pixels), so if i use overscan i have a big lost if picture information on the top, buttom, and right to get the left black block hidden.

i had tried your line offset, for the SDI channel but notices a small bug or glitch.
Line offset is programmed to +1 (picture is moved 1 line up), but it stores the image seen when switching. so if the second line was white at the beginning, it stores this line in the first line for the hole movie. so you see all time this white line, if you start with a black line at the second line you never notice this line because its black :-)

3. Additionally, for film based content (which is the only reason you would want to use a multiple of 24 as an output), set the deinterlacing mode to “Forced 3:2”

Input Adjust -> Deinterlacing -> Forced 3:2
I just wanted to emphasize the need to change deinterlacing to Forced 3:2. I still occasionally lose 24hz frame lock with Film Bias deinterlacing, and lose it quite frequently with Auto. Forced 3:2 seems fine.

@josh@dvdo: thxns for the 1.04 beta, it now runs with my pal conversion fine

50hz 576i SDI input to 60hz 1080p output hdmi.

no frame drop.



if now the white blinking line in the left top would be gone, this would be very very nice and i'm happy (until i find the next problem) :D

For those who see the blinking white line in the upper left, what is your output set to?

I only see it when I run at 48 Hz vs. 60 Hz. Or at least that is only when I notice it.

Problems here with xbox 360 using HD-DVD addon.

Output xbox @ 1080i60 to VP50 - output at 1080P@24 and 48.

Every few seconds have judder(missed frames) and large amount of combing with the odd frame dropping, this is the exactly the same when using forced 3:2 and film biased.

Settings used on VP50 frame rate....

24@
24 - 24 locked
60 - 24 locked

48@
24 - 48 locked
60 - 48 locked


Using 1080p@24 (- 48) from VP50, video output is half off screen and having to use a huge amount of Hshift (492) to center the picture correctly.

Setting output from 1080P@24 to 1080P@60 centers the picture correctly, why is 1080@24 not correct?

went to upgrade to 1.04beta from 1.01beta and found that when i upgraded my laptop, i lost my serial port connection (i.e. my new laptop has no serial port)

therefore, i need a usb-serial adapter. any recommendations for one that doesn't have driver problem mentioned on the dvdo web site?

thanks

update: edited for clarity (i.e. to correct lack of it in original post)

For those who see the blinking white line in the upper left, what is your output set to?

I only see it when I run at 48 Hz vs. 60 Hz. Or at least that is only when I notice it.

i run
Input: 576i 50hz

output: 1080p60

but with other resulutions it is also noticed

Problems here with xbox 360 using HD-DVD addon.

Output xbox @ 1080i60 to VP50 - output at 1080P@24 and 48.

Every few seconds have judder(missed frames) and large amount of combing with the odd frame dropping, this is the exactly the same when using forced 3:2 and film biased.

Settings used on VP50 frame rate....

24@
24 - 24 locked
60 - 24 locked

48@
24 - 48 locked
60 - 48 locked


Using 1080p@24 (- 48) from VP50, video output is half off screen and having to use a huge amount of Hshift (492) to center the picture correctly.

Setting output from 1080P@24 to 1080P@60 centers the picture correctly, why is 1080@24 not correct?

Which display are you using?

i run
Input: 576i 50hz

output: 1080p60

but with other resulutions it is also noticed

Other input resolutions, or output resolutions?

went to upgrade to 1.04beta from 1.01beta and found that when i upgraded my laptop, i lost my serial port connection.

Check the serial baud rate on the VP50. If you were running at a rate other than 19200, it most likely reset to 19200 after the update.

Which display are you using?


Panasonic Plasma 50PHD8 via RGBHV.

Thanks Josh!

Other input resolutions, or output resolutions?

i checked several output resulutions

analog 1366x768 60hz (55 to 65 hz)
also digital 576p 720p and 1080i with toshiba 42wl58p (german modell)

several digital outputs to the LG 47" up to 1080p60

also run on Beamer Mitsubishi xd200u with 1024x768 50hz

input resulutions where at 1080p60 and 720p60 via ps3 and 576i via sdi and component input 50hz

i can check 50hz output because of overscan( so the top lines are cut of)

every time i got this damm white blinking line, i send back in november or so a mail with a video to aaron. do you need this video again ? or do you have it ?

Hi Mark,
My only comment is that I have lived with PAL sources for years and the experience of 60Hz sources and 3:2 pulldown with the advent of HDDVD and Blu Ray to Australia was not so pleasant. I am able to easily see the improvement in judder with 24Hz. I have seen similar comments from others in PAL countries.

Hi CraigN, I don't doubt that there is an improvement I'm just trying to get my NTSC judder trained eyes to be able to see it better.

Try the mountain panning scene at the beginning of Batman Begins - about 6 minutes in I think. That was the scene they were using in the HD DVD mobile trailer to demo smooth pans with the VP50/Marantz.

Thanks for the reference I'll give it a try!

Keyword "judder" - Since I have beta version 1.03 something very bad appeared when watching digital TV (standard definition) which wasn't before. I am talking about a judder / tremble effect. This issue usually appears when watching a soccer game like live broadcast of Champions League matches. There are not big judders like described with blue ray, but the motion of the SD picture is not fluently anymore.

Is there someone, who also recognized that problem?


yes i have the same, its not digital tv is also on 576i 50hz to 60hz, it like frame dropping.

also all other version have judder from 576i 50 hz to 60hz converting.

i just installed the new firmware 1.04ß

Input: 576i50Hz Component and Output: 1080p60 HDMI
is now running without the frame drops.

there is only a small judder (it was also on 1.01 1.0) with video mode (which i think is the best) will there some more improovement for 50hz to 60hz conversion ?


This is expected and we have no plans to improve this in the VP50.


TO: Josh@dvdo :eek:
I have not installed v1.04 yet but as far as I understand the problem is still not fixed and it is not planned to be fixed. If this is true, to me and some other VP50 users that would be a tremendous issue. Please give a statement. Thanks in advance.

@Pharados

Hey, ich glaube ich les nicht richtig. Die von DVDO, respektiv Josh, haben ja wohl den Arsch offen. Das wäre ja eine Sauerei uns so im Regen stehen zu lassen...

Check the serial baud rate on the VP50. If you were running at a rate other than 19200, it most likely reset to 19200 after the update.

:eek:
i'm sorry.....my text was ambiguous.

i meant to say, my new laptop has no serial port, hence i need a recommendation on a good usb-serial converter (that doesn't have the known driver problem)

@B2KjenZ:

It is very impolite to write in German in an American forum, and it is even more impolite to write it in dirty words ! I am Austrian and German is my native language too, but we should restrict it to german forums.

@B2KjenZ:

It is very impolite to write in German in an American forum, and it is even more impolite to write it in dirty words ! I am Austrian and German is my native language too, but we should restrict it to german forums.

Full agree

@B2KjenZ:

It is very impolite to write in German in an American forum, and it is even more impolite to write it in dirty words ! I am Austrian and German is my native language too, but we should restrict it to german forums.

I am sorry, you guys are right. :o

Actually I just wanted to send a PM to Pharados, but there is no option to do so. He is German, that is why I wrote him in our native language. The message does not really contribute to the topic.

TRANSLATION (as far as possible - but contents is equal): I cannot believe what I read. I hope Josh is mistaken (regarding "no plans" to work on this issue). I hope they won't let us stand in the rain...

I am sorry, you guys are right. :o

Actually I just wanted to send a PM to Pharados, but there is no option to do so. He is German, that is why I wrote him in our native language. The message does not really contribute to the topic.

TRANSLATION (as far as possible - but contents is equal): I cannot believe what I read. I hope Josh is mistaken (regarding "no plans" to work on this issue). I hope they won't let us stand in the rain...

50 to 60 hz conversion is probably as good as it can get, maybe that's why they don't do anything more about it.

...
Actually I just wanted to send a PM to Pharados, but there is no option to do so.


...just do a left click on his handle on the left. The context menu gives you an option to send him a PM....


......
TRANSLATION (as far as possible - but contents is equal): I cannot believe what I read. I hope Josh is mistaken (regarding "no plans" to work on this issue). I hope they won't let us stand in the rain...

Well, your original post is worded a lot stronger. Maybe you want consider editing that a bit before someone get too offended - just a suggestion. :)
_____
Axel

50 to 60 hz conversion is probably as good as it can get, maybe that's why they don't do anything more about it.

No sorry, I do not agree, because in SW v1.00 it was running very well!

No sorry, I do not agree, because in SW v1.00 it was running very well!You just said you haven't tried v1.04 so how could you possibly know whether it works the same as with v1.00 or not? :rolleyes:

If you do try the latest version and find that it still has a problem, then provide detailed information to ABT (source and display devices, specific content, etc.) so that they can fix the problem. I suspect Josh's comment simply means he believes the frame rate conversion on the VP50 is now working correctly. If you don't believe this to be the case then help them to solve the problem instead of just complaining about it.

- Dale Adams

I've now tried my VP50 with an HD-A2 and PS3 over HDMI, outputted to both an H79 and RS1 at their native resolution, and regardless of the source or projector I'm still getting the image tearing at various intervals throughout the movie, which is extremely obvious and annoying. Has anyone found a firmware fix that eliminates this or is it something that we're just going to be expected to live with for the forseeable future?

I have yet to notice this problem with SD DVDs played at 480i output from my HD-A2 and de-interlaced and upscaled in the VP50 - it has only exhibited itself when playing HD DVDs and BDs.

@Dale

Thanks a lot for your answer. I will try it out.
But I don not understand, why this problem hasn't appeared before when v1.00 was running on my VP50... :confused:

I've now tried my VP50 with an HD-A2 and PS3 over HDMI, outputted to both an H79 and RS1 at their native resolution, and regardless of the source or projector I'm still getting the image tearing at various intervals throughout the movie, which is extremely obvious and annoying. Has anyone found a firmware fix that eliminates this or is it something that we're just going to be expected to live with for the forseeable future?

I think it would be helpful if you could provide the exact resolutions and timings you used for input and output.
____
Axel

I've now tried my VP50 with an HD-A2 and PS3 over HDMI, outputted to both an H79 and RS1 at their native resolution, and regardless of the source or projector I'm still getting the image tearing at various intervals throughout the movie, which is extremely obvious and annoying. Has anyone found a firmware fix that eliminates this or is it something that we're just going to be expected to live with for the forseeable future?What firmware version are you using?

- Dale Adams

I have yet to notice this problem with SD DVDs played at 480i output from my HD-A2 and de-interlaced and upscaled in the VP50 - it has only exhibited itself when playing HD DVDs and BDs.Ah, now that's a bit more helpful. What output formats (resolution, frame rate, interlace/progressive, etc.) are you using from your HD sources? What output format (resolution, frame rate, etc.) are you using from the VP50 to the display?

- Dale Adams

FYI: After switching from 60Hz to 50 Hz Framerate...

With a Framerate of 50Hz TV is running very well again, even soccer live broadcast (SAT.1 - Esp Barcelona vs Werder Bremen). But I must admit, that the picture looks better with 60Hz, such a pitty.

I think it would be helpful if you could provide the exact resolutions and timings you used for input and output.
____
Axel

Sorry about that, I should have included more info:

HD-A2 output set at 1080i, PS3 output set at 1080p - neither source allows for adjustment of the framerate.

The VP50 was set at 720p60 and 59.94Hz unlocked output for the H79.

The VP50 is now set at 1080p60 and 59.94Hz unlocked output for the RS1.

Both the HD-A2 and PS3 are connected to the VP50 via HDMI, which then runs to my Denon AVR-3806, which passes the signal through (no processing) via HDMI to the RS1.

I believe the firmware is v1.01, but I'd have to check at home to be sure.

The VP50 was set at 720p60 and 59.94Hz unlocked output for the H79.

The VP50 is now set at 1080p60 and 59.94Hz unlocked output for the RS1.Is there a reason you're running in unlocked mode rather than using a 60 Hz locked output? With the output frame rate not locked to the input you will periodically get a repeated or dropped frame.

- Dale Adams

Just to make sure that everyone is doing the same thing when outputting 24p, there are 3 steps necessary on the iScan to do this:

1. Set frame rate output to 24Hz Locked

Output Setup -> Frame Rate -> 60Hz -> 24Hz Locked
Output Setup -> Frame Rate -> 24Hz -> 24Hz Locked

2. Set output format to 1080p-24

Output Setup -> Format -> 1080p-24

3. Additionally, for film based content (which is the only reason you would want to use a multiple of 24 as an output), set the deinterlacing mode to “Forced 3:2”

Input Adjust -> Deinterlacing -> Forced 3:2

I just tried these settings and things looked really good, except a weird effect with Toshiba HD DVD. HDCP issues weren't there anymore.

Firmware: v1.04
Display: Pioneer PDP-507XA via HDMI (similar to 5070HD)
Input 1: Toshiba XE1 via HDMI (1080i60)
Input 2: PS3 via HDMI (1080i60)
Output: 1080p-24 + 60Hz>24Hz Lock
Cables: Same cables for XE1 and PS3 (1,5m+5m)
HD-DVD Film: King Kong (watched for about 15 mins)
Blu-ray Film: Casino Royale (watched for about 15 mins)

Toshiba HD-XE1:

With "Forced 3:2" deinterlacing I got weird combing effect between movie scenes (it looked like all odd or even lines were lost for a blink of an eye). No dropped frames / judder.

With "Auto" and "Film biased" deinterlacing there wasn't combing between scenes (or in the subtitles) but the loss of frames was as awful as with the previous firmware (once a second or so).

PS3:

Flawless performace with "Forced 3:2", atleast for the 15 minutes I watched Casino Royale. So it's not all bad :D

Sidenote:

At first I got a lost frame every 30 seconds with Toshiba but when I switched my QED highend HDMI cable to the cheap one I bought with PS3, the problem was gone :rolleyes:

Is there a reason you're running in unlocked mode rather than using a 60 Hz locked output? With the output frame rate not locked to the input you will periodically get a repeated or dropped frame.

- Dale Adams

I've had the problem with the frame rate both locked and unlocked on the H79, but I have not tried it on the RS1. Is the image tearing exhibited on the VP50 related to dropped/repeated frames as a result of using an unlocked frame rate? I hadn't considered that the two could be linked.

The tearing is not constant - it appears anywhere between 10 to 20 minutes into a movie, goes away within several minutes, and then usually re-appears again later on - it always fixes itself within several minutes, but of course during scenes with lots of action or constant camera angle changes it is blatantly noticeable and annoying, and feels like it takes much longer than the few minutes required for it to go away.

I've had the problem with the frame rate both locked and unlocked on the H79, but I have not tried it on the RS1. Is the image tearing exhibited on the VP50 related to dropped/repeated frames as a result of using an unlocked frame rate? I hadn't considered that the two could be linked.

The tearing is not constant - it appears anywhere between 10 to 20 minutes into a movie, goes away within several minutes, and then usually re-appears again later on - it always fixes itself within several minutes, but of course during scenes with lots of action or constant camera angle changes it is blatantly noticeable and annoying, and feels like it takes much longer than the few minutes required for it to go away.There have been known issues with tearing as you describe with some versions of the VP50 software, but I thought those were limited to 24 Hz locked output. There's always a potential problem or two with unlocked output which is set to be nominally the same rate as the input. First of all, you will get dropped or repeated frames. Secondly, it may be possible to get tearing under certain circumstances as the output rate will always be a little different from the input if they're not locked. This should be very rare, though. You could try setting the unlocked output rate to 59.93 Hz or 59.95 Hz to see if that cures the tearing problem. In general, I would always recommend running in locked mode unless you have a good reason not to.

Based on what I know of the VP50 frame rate conversion hardware, I wouldn't think you could ever get tearing with a 60 Hz input and a 60 Hz locked output. There was a hardware bug introduced in v1.03 which could cause problems in this mode, but that should be gone in v1.04. I'm not sure exactly what was in the 1.01 release, though. It's more likely that you would get tearing in unlocked mode than in a 1:1 locked mode (i.e., 60 Hz in to 60 Hz out), but even that shouldn't happen unless there's a real bug of some sort.

My suggestion would be to try v1.04 running with 60 Hz locked output and see if that solves the problem. Also, if it's not too much trouble, try both projectors as that will remove the display as a factor.

- Dale Adams

Is the a reason why some people are setting the PS3 to output 1080i60 vs 1080p60 to the VP50? (And still configuring the VP50 output for 1080p24)

Is this due to not being currently able to disable the Progessive Cadence Detection logic?

Is the a reason why some people are setting the PS3 to output 1080i60 vs 1080p60 to the VP50? (And still configuring the VP50 output for 1080p24)

Is this due to not being currently able to disable the Progessive Cadence Detection logic?

Normally I have my PS3 connected directly to my display (768p) and since it won't take 1080p60, I use 1080i60. With the VP50 in between, 1080i60 Blu-ray (converted to 1080p24) looked so good so I didn't even try 1080p60 (from PS3). I will do this in future and try to see if there's any difference.

I was really looking forward to V1.04 but was a little bit disappointed when finally seeing the results on my HD1/RS1... There is still judder though I followed Josh's "How to" step by step.

:-(

My config
PS3 1080p/60 out
XE1 1080p/60 out

HD1/RS1 1080p/24 in

I tried the crawling bar generated by the VP50 and it shows the same juddering in 24Hz as it does in 60Hz.
And my "hidden menu" (RS1) tells me 47.98, so it seems the signal really is 1080p/24

Still some space for improvement, I guess...

Cheers,
Frieder

I tried the crawling bar generated by the VP50 and it shows the same juddering in 24Hz as it does in 60Hz.
And my "hidden menu" (RS1) tells me 47.98, so it seems the signal really is 1080p/24

Still some space for improvement, I guess...

Cheers,
Frieder


Hmmm - interesting. That might indicate a different problem. By the "crawling bar", do you mean the test pattern. If so, since this is generated internally in the VP50, and is generated at the output framerate directly (i.e. it's completely indepedant of the input), it suggest the screen is having problems display the output format its receiving from the VP50. At least this suggest that 1.04 could have fixed the frame rate conversion problem. Do you know if the test pattern worked with 1.0 at 1080p/24 or 1080p/60? Sounds like there are two different problems here, one of which is fixed in 1.04 - of course all assuming that you mean the test pattern I think you're referring to.

pete S

A conspicuousness report after the v1.04 update...

I was running the update installation in the night before I went to sleep. Thus, first thing I did was checking my vp50 in the morning. By first sight everything was working fine as it should, but then to my astonishment I figured out that my settings have not been reset! Usually all settings will be deleted because of the update. Info option states that v1.04 is installed and tera term pro on my PC states that reset was successful ("reset ok").

How can this be? Did anything went wrong with my update?
Anyone else who has the same "phenomenon"?

A conspicuousness report after the v1.04 update...

I was running the update installation in the night before I went to sleep. Thus, first thing I did was checking my vp50 in the morning. By first sight everything was working fine as it should, but then to my astonishment I figured out that my settings have not been reset! Usually all settings will be deleted because of the update. Info option states that v1.04 is installed and tera term pro on my PC states that reset was successful ("reset ok").

How can this be? Did anything went wrong with my update?
Anyone else who has the same "phenomenon"?

It depends on what version of firmware you were running before. If you went from 1.0 to 1.04, you'll loose you settings. If you go from 1.03, you'll keep them - can't remember about 1.01.

@pete S

Yep. I was referring to the internal test pattern!

Actually, I haven't tried this with any previous software version. I know, I should have...

@pete S

Yep. I was referring to the internal test pattern!

So, that sounds like the screen can't correctly display the rez&rate you're trying to send it. Sorry for the basic question, but are you 100% sure that the screen can handle 1080p/24 input?

Well, yes. The technical specs of this PJ say that it's capable of 1080p/24!

It depends on what version of firmware you were running before. If you went from 1.0 to 1.04, you'll loose you settings. If you go from 1.03, you'll keep them - can't remember about 1.01.


for those that go from 1.01 to the 1.04, could you please post your comments here and let us know if you loose your settings please?


I haven't backed up mine for a while..... it would save me the trouble...

thanks! :)

Hmmm - interesting. That might indicate a different problem. By the "crawling bar", do you mean the test pattern. If so, since this is generated internally in the VP50, and is generated at the output framerate directly (i.e. it's completely indepedant of the input), it suggest the screen is having problems display the output format its receiving from the VP50. At least this suggest that 1.04 could have fixed the frame rate conversion problem. Do you know if the test pattern worked with 1.0 at 1080p/24 or 1080p/60? Sounds like there are two different problems here, one of which is fixed in 1.04 - of course all assuming that you mean the test pattern I think you're referring to.As correctly noted by peteS, this test pattern is generated internally by the VP50 and is independent of any input signal to the VP50. Further, it's located after any frame rate conversion hardware in the VP50 - i.e., there's nothing in the VP50's internal signal path located after the test pattern generator hardware which could change the frame rate or introduce judder. If you're seeing problems with this test pattern and your display, the problem is likely in the display, or perhaps some incompatibility the display has with whatever format/timing the VP50 is set to output.

Now, I suppose it's possible that ABT has introduced some sort of bug that affects the behavior or this test pattern. I find this unlikely, though, as it would require that they modify the design of the test pattern generator itself. I'm not aware of any such modification, but ABT would have to verify that.

The only other possibility I can think of is that, when the test pattern generator is running, the VP50's software is configured to be in a source-locked mode. Normally the VP50 runs in unlocked mode when this test pattern is used in order to produce a constant, unvarying output signal timing. If this were changed for some reason (e.g., a bug, as I can't think of any other reason they'd do this) then it's possible the VP50 output might not be as constant as it should be. Again, this is something ABT would have to verify, but this is really pretty simple to check and something they've likely done already.

- Dale Adams

So is there anybody else experiencing this problem with the JVC HD1/RS1?
Should be easy to check...

Cheers,
Frieder

The only other possibility I can think of is that, when the test pattern generator is running, the VP50's software is configured to be in a source-locked mode. Normally the VP50 runs in unlocked mode when this test pattern is used in order to produce a constant, unvarying output signal timing. If this were changed for some reason (e.g., a bug, as I can't think of any other reason they'd do this) then it's possible the VP50 output might not be as constant as it should be. Again, this is something ABT would have to verify, but this is really pretty simple to check and something they've likely done already.

- Dale Adams

Hi Dale

I know it's not definitive, but the VP50 certainly reports that it's running Unlocked when the test patterns are up. Also, the test patterns work OK with 1.04 when there's no input (so nothing to lock to), so I think they'd have to be running in UnLocked.

Frieder - It just sounds like the display won't accept the 1080p/24 correctly. What if the VP50 is bypassed - does the judder still exist?

Hi Mark,
My only comment is that I have lived with PAL sources for years and the experience of 60Hz sources and 3:2 pulldown with the advent of HDDVD and Blu Ray to Australia was not so pleasant. I am able to easily see the improvement in judder with 24Hz. I have seen similar comments from others in PAL countries.
You never watched an R1 DVD??

Pete - going from 1.01 to 1.04, you keep your settings. Luckily :)

I also tried the mountain panning scene on Batman Begins HD DVD (xbox 360 set to 1080i, vp50 outputting XGA@48 over HDMI) and get "dropped frames" judder every second or so but no combing that I can see. This was on both Auto and Forced 3:2

60Hz output seems ok (except for the obvious)

You never watched an R1 DVD??

going from 1.01 to 1.04, you keep your settings. Luckily :)



Many thanks! I may update tomorrow.... cheers,

Marcelo

FYI: After switching from 60Hz to 50 Hz Framerate...

With a Framerate of 50Hz TV is running very well again, even soccer live broadcast (SAT.1 - Esp Barcelona vs Werder Bremen). But I must admit, that the picture looks better with 60Hz, such a pitty.
What do you mean that the picture looks better? Is it something about the way your LCD handles a 50Hz signal? I can't see any difference at all in picture quality (colour, contrast, detail) between 48, 50 and 60 on my plasma.

@pete S

I have no native 24Hz source, so I can't bypass the VP50... until the 24Hz-firmware upgrade for both the PS3 and the XE1 are there.

There have been known issues with tearing as you describe with some versions of the VP50 software, but I thought those were limited to 24 Hz locked output. There's always a potential problem or two with unlocked output which is set to be nominally the same rate as the input. First of all, you will get dropped or repeated frames. Secondly, it may be possible to get tearing under certain circumstances as the output rate will always be a little different from the input if they're not locked. This should be very rare, though. You could try setting the unlocked output rate to 59.93 Hz or 59.95 Hz to see if that cures the tearing problem. In general, I would always recommend running in locked mode unless you have a good reason not to.

Based on what I know of the VP50 frame rate conversion hardware, I wouldn't think you could ever get tearing with a 60 Hz input and a 60 Hz locked output. There was a hardware bug introduced in v1.03 which could cause problems in this mode, but that should be gone in v1.04. I'm not sure exactly what was in the 1.01 release, though. It's more likely that you would get tearing in unlocked mode than in a 1:1 locked mode (i.e., 60 Hz in to 60 Hz out), but even that shouldn't happen unless there's a real bug of some sort.

My suggestion would be to try v1.04 running with 60 Hz locked output and see if that solves the problem. Also, if it's not too much trouble, try both projectors as that will remove the display as a factor.

- Dale Adams

I've already tried locked/unlocked on the H79, which is now off the ceiling. The RS1 is is now up, and I'll go ahead and try locked 60Hz and see what that does for me. If that doesn't work, I'll give v1.04 a try and see if that does anything for me as well. Hopefully one or both of those fixes it - if not, I'll be back! Thanks for the help :)

Watch out, mine has lost settings going from 1.01 to 1.04 so write it down just to be sure :)

Watch out, mine has lost settings going from 1.01 to 1.04 so write it down just to be sure :)
Ah, thanks. Guess I was just lucky then.

It's always a good idea to write your settings down. I now keep a list of all my settings, and if I change something, it gets changed on my list. But luckily going from 1.03 to 1.04 it kept my settings. The only thing worse than having to re input all your settings, is not knowing what those settings were. That happened once when I had the VP30 and I swore I would never have that happen again.

It's always a good idea to write your settings down. I now keep a list of all my settings, and if I change something, it gets changed on my list. But luckily going from 1.03 to 1.04 it kept my settings. The only thing worse than having to re input all your settings, is not knowing what those settings were. That happened once when I had the VP30 and I swore I would never have that happen again.

Since I wrote my settings down (October/november) - ISF calibration really ... so I didn't write it down ... the calibrator gave me the report, I have 3 new HD sources.... so I should really update it....

I won't upgrade until I update my spreadsheet.... just in case....

for those that go from 1.01 to the 1.04, could you please post your comments here and let us know if you loose your settings please?


I haven't backed up mine for a while..... it would save me the trouble...

thanks! :)

there is no setting lost going from 1.01 to 1.04

Today i watch underworld 2 in BD and Tokyo Drift in HD DVD: none of the issues i have before (frames lost and tearing) appears.
But after, i played Riddick in HD DVD and the issues came back :mad:
Can we have other feedbacks from RS1(HD1) owners, fwm 1.04 and 24p ?

No settings lost here using VP50 update utility v2.0.84.


Did some more testing with the XBOX-HD-DVD last night and found 1 combination that just about works fine, Film Biased@48.

Film biased seems the best with 48 and has only a very slight judder now and again.

Film biased @24 is slightly worse in judder than the former, with a break up of 2" bottom of the picture(as noted with V1.01). see Scene 2

forced 3:2 @48 produces combing and some judder and slight distortion to the bottom 2" but doesn't break up. Scene 1,2

Forced 3:2 @24 produces combing and extreme juddering with frame dropping and with break up 2" bottom of the picture(as noted with V1.01). Scene 1,2

Scene 1
Superman Returns, when you see Superman as a boy running and jumping through the corn fields.
Title 3 chapt 5 00:17:46

Scene 2
Superman returns, when you see inside the plane when the shuttle accident happens, the passengers are being thrown about and there is a lot of vertical motion.
Title 3 Chapt 11 00:36:17

Panasonic Plasma 50PHD8 via RGBHV.


Is there a reaon why you are sending a native 1366x768@60Hz display a 1920x1080@24Hz signal?

It would seem that all the additional processing in the display would make it diificult to determine where the issue is.

Is there a reaon why you are sending a native 1366x768@60Hz display a 1920x1080@24Hz signal?

It would seem that all the additional processing in the display would make it diificult to determine where the issue is.


The resulting picture quality is better having the panel downscale to 1366x768 than sending native res.

I would like to continue to use 1080P for obvious reasons.

Thanks for your response Josh!


edit: Decided to get a PS3 in a few days, so will report on this also.

I have my Xbox360 connected to the VP50 via component input. The VP50 says "unknown signal" when switching to 1080p in the dashboard settings.

Why? What's the problem??

(Sorry if this question has already been discussed)

I have my Xbox360 connected to the VP50 via component input. The VP50 says "unknown signal" when switching to 1080p in the dashboard settings.

Why? What's the problem??

(Sorry if this question has already been discussed)


The VP50 cannot accept 1080P via analogue connections due to a hardware limitation.

You need to use 1080i!

1080P input is supported via HDMI only.

Theoretical question: If a display were to convert both 24hz and 60hz input signals up to the common multiple of 120hz, would the net effect be the same? Would your judder go away on 60hz signals?

The VP50 cannot accept 1080P via analogue connections due to a hardware limitation.

You need to use 1080i!

1080P input is supported via HDMI only.

Oh man, that's really bad. I didn't know that... :(

In my case, 1.04 appears to have corrected my issues (framerate, menu slowness and tearing - from 1.03). This is based on only 1 viewing however and I am holding my breath. I have a native 720p Proj, so I am using 48hz unlocked for all film sources and it works well. So far, the problems from 1.03 have gone away (hooray) and nothing new has cropped up (double, nay - triple hooray). For now, I am finally content. Here's hoping this continues with more extended viewing. The only one I still dread and wonder about is whether the audio dropouts appear on input switching, as I haven't tried that yet.

What is the impact of Sync Type?
I cannot see any difference between H+/V+, H+/V-, H-/V+ and H-/V-.
Sorry if this is a "rookie" question.

Theoretical question: If a display were to convert both 24hz and 60hz input signals up to the common multiple of 120hz, would the net effect be the same? Would your judder go away on 60hz signals?If the display simply repeated input frames to arrive at the 120 Hz display rate, then, no, it would not eliminate 3:2 judder. Each frame from the source which occurred 2 times would be shown 4 times by the display, and each frame from the source which occurred 3 times would be shown 6 times by the display.

- Dale Adams

In my case, 1.04 appears to have corrected my issues (framerate, menu slowness and tearing - from 1.03). This is based on only 1 viewing however and I am holding my breath. I have a native 720p Proj, so I am using 48hz unlocked for all film sources and it works well.Just curious - Why are you running 48 Hz unlocked? In this mode with a 3:2 pulldown source you will sometimes see each original film frame shown twice (which is what you want), but other times will see some frames shown once and others shown 3 times. Since the output frame rate is not locked to the input, the output will drift in and out of the 2/2 and 3/1 frame repetition patterns.

- Dale Adams

Does any one have the discrete code for the Auto deinterlacing mode? The one I have does not seem to be working. Video, Film, Game, even Force 3:2 all seem to be working fine.

What is the impact of Sync Type?
I cannot see any difference between H+/V+, H+/V-, H-/V+ and H-/V-.
Sorry if this is a "rookie" question.

Sync polarity is needed for some displays, like Barco CRT projectors require certain sync settings or no image, CRT pj's should be tested with them all to see which is the most stable image wise ;)

how important they are to digital displays/pj's I have no idea :p

-Gary

Does any one have the discrete code for the Auto deinterlacing mode? The one I have does not seem to be working. Video, Film, Game, even Force 3:2 all seem to be working fine.


Have you tried the code from Barry Gordon's utility?

It should be this one:

0000 006C 001B 0000 0064 0064 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0044 0044 0016 0001

____
Axel

Have you tried the code from Barry Gordon's utility?

It should be this one:

0000 006C 001B 0000 0064 0064 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0016 0015 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0041 0016 0015 0044 0044 0016 0001

____
Axel

Yes, that's the one I tried that didn't work. Can anyone verify that this code works for them?

Re My (Barry's) Utility.

There is a new version located at my web site (www.the-gordons.net). I assume the post referring to the "Update Utility 2.0.84" was referring to my Utility program. Would make my life easier if all referred to it as "Barry's utility" until DVDO wishes to call it something else. No changes the in the "Firmware Loader" portion

The new version has a lot of fixes re IR code generation, mostly for the VP30 but also for the VP50. It now has an initial configuration utility that allows you to easily customize it for what you want and the equipment you own.

As Far as I can tell it generates IR patterns in the Pronto Hex format which are precisely to the specs/information provided by DVDO under NDA so please do not ask me for that data. I believe they plan to release a lot of it in the future as "Automation Protocol".

There was one lurking bug re searching for Com ports (in the case that the only com port on the PC was in use so none were found) that was also fixed.

I have gottent at least one report that when the discrete IR codes (which all end with 0001) are pasted into a Pronto Editor, the Pronto editor changes that value to 0064. I have not seen that and can not duplicate it with the pronto editor I use (iPronto Edit 2.5.2 and Pronto Edit 4.0.5). In any evnt is should make no difference That value is the amount of off time for the last IR burst and is then followed by IR being off until the next IR pattern is sent. ergo is can be almost anything. It does however control how quickly the next IR pattern can be sent, but the patterns the program generates are not Repeat patterns so it should not matter.

This version must be run with the assocaited version of the INI control file. It will then make a customized INI file for your use.

As usual let me know of any problems and I will assist/fix.

Just curious - Why are you running 48 Hz unlocked? In this mode with a 3:2 pulldown source you will sometimes see each original film frame shown twice (which is what you want), but other times will see some frames shown once and others shown 3 times. Since the output frame rate is not locked to the input, the output will drift in and out of the 2/2 and 3/1 frame repetition patterns.

- Dale Adams

Sorry, I didn't mean "unlock". I was thinking of something else when I typed that. I use the 48hz lock. I assume there is no reason to use 24hz with my setup?

Mostly out of not knowing better, I guess. I thought I read a looooong time ago in this thread that film content should be run at multiples of 24hz. Since my 720p PJ doesn't do 1080/24 I was using 48hz and don't recall that it can be "locked". I am about to watch an HD-DVD tonight and will check my settings. Probably just me being stupid. Might sound dumb (until I check my settings) but are you suggesting running at 60hz locked or am I missing the fact that the 48 can be locked also?You're certainly correct that you want to run at a multiple of 24 Hz. The reason for this is so that each of the original 24 Hz film frames is repeated the same number of times. If you run in 48 Hz unlocked mode the actual number of times each film frame is displayed will vary between 1, 2 and 3. Running in 48 Hz locked mode will lock the output to the original 24 Hz film frame rate and show each film frame exactly 2 times. This should result in smoother motion and less judder.

Go to the frame rate conversion setting in the output format menu (or whatever they're actually labeled :D ), and under the 60 Hz entry you should see an option for 48 Hz locked. Select that. Note that you only want to choose this option for 60 Hz sources that you know are film-sourced (which is virtually all major movies), as it will result in more motion judder and dropped frames for most other sources.

Give that a try and see what you think.

- Dale Adams

Guess we cross posted, as I deleted my original, wrongly worded post and changed it to the 2nd one. I was originally thinking about the early 60hz discussion days and locked vs unlocked and just typed without brain in gear. I am using 48hz locked, as you wisely suggest and have been for some time. Under 1.03 I had problems though.

As for the update on tonight's viewing using f/w 1.04 beta, I can report that ALL of MY previous issues appear to be fixed. No menu problems, no more tearing, no framerate jittery issues and, so far, no audio problems on switching. Where I have occasionally thrown brickbats before due to the ongoing bugs, I now can offer thanks that 1.04 is working fine - for me at least and for now. Good work. Thanks Dale for your help and sorry about the confusion on my part. Thanks DVDO/Josh for the new firmware fixes.

Re My (Barry's) Utility.

There is a new version located at my web site (www.the-gordons.net). I assume the post referring to the "Update Utility 2.0.84" was referring to my Utility program. Would make my life easier if all referred to it as "Barry's utility" until DVDO wishes to call it something else. No changes the in the "Firmware Loader" portion

The new version has a lot of fixes re IR code generation, mostly for the VP30 but also for the VP50. It now has an initial configuration utility that allows you to easily customize it for what you want and the equipment you own.

As Far as I can tell it generates IR patterns in the Pronto Hex format which are precisely to the specs/information provided by DVDO under NDA so please do not ask me for that data. I believe they plan to release a lot of it in the future as "Automation Protocol".

There was one lurking bug re searching for Com ports (in the case that the only com port on the PC was in use so none were found) that was also fixed.

I have gottent at least one report that when the discrete IR codes (which all end with 0001) are pasted into a Pronto Editor, the Pronto editor changes that value to 0064. I have not seen that and can not duplicate it with the pronto editor I use (iPronto Edit 2.5.2 and Pronto Edit 4.0.5). In any evnt is should make no difference That value is the amount of off time for the last IR burst and is then followed by IR being off until the next IR pattern is sent. ergo is can be almost anything. It does however control how quickly the next IR pattern can be sent, but the patterns the program generates are not Repeat patterns so it should not matter.

This version must be run with the assocaited version of the INI control file. It will then make a customized INI file for your use.

As usual let me know of any problems and I will assist/fix.

Using ProntoProEdit NG (v 2.1.8.0) pasting in the code for Auto DI from your utility 2.0.84, saving the IR command and reopening it, definitely changes the last value from 0001 to 0064. I'll have a chance to find out later whether it stops it working and will post.