You know, as many of you realize, I want to give ABT the benefit of the doubt.

But then, tonight I get an email newsletter from them announcing:

The VP50 (shown above) features all of the processing power of Anchor Bay’s VRS™ technologies, including Progressive Re-Processing (PReP™), the video processing industry’s first processing method that significantly improves progressive video signals and removes artifacts caused by inferior interlaced-to-progressive conversion.
...

Funny, my VP-50 doesn't have it, nor is it available now for download from their site.

eric

Well to be a bit fair my guess is that anyone who gets this newsletter now and orders the VP50 probably won't get it for a while since they stopped shipping them for now, and when they finally do get it it will have PReP. But then again, yeah they shouldn't be sending this out until they have the thing ready to go IMO...

Well to be a bit fair my guess is that anyone who gets this newsletter now and orders the VP50 probably won't get it for a while since they stopped shipping them for now, and when they finally do get it it will have PReP. But then again, yeah they shouldn't be sending this out until they have the thing ready to go IMO...
I think it's actually a bit of a slap in your face - sending out this email to all registered (and maybe possibly some customers waiting for their VP50). We all know it still has the same problems we've been discussing here, so why tell us about what they SHOULD have delivered. I think BTW that the new batch of VP50s has just arrived and they're trying to generate sales.

Like many, I had a quick look at their web site for an FW update and hoped against hope that this may have been a sly way of telling us that all was fixed now (instead of sending all of us an email with a FW update link :eek: ). Who were they hoping to convince to by a VP50? Nearly all of us as I've said already have one, so why preach to the converted, or worse still, rub our wounds into it (fixes we're waiting for)?

I am happy to report that my "vertical pinstripes" problem has been resolved with a replacement VP50. DVDO told me earlier this week that they had identified the problem with my original unit, which I had sent in a few weeks ago, but that it needed to be sent somewhere else for repair, so they decided to send me a replacement unit from their new stock that had just arrived. I received the replacement yesterday-- it still has firmware version 1.00 (and still does not have a THX logo), but I am certainly happy to have those stripes gone. Not surprisingly, it still has the horizontal bands over the lower half of 1080i input signals with my not-so-common display/screen aspect ratio settings, but that problem seems to be reproducible on all VP50s, so I just hope that it will be fixed in an upcoming software release like they have told me it should be. So I guess that it's time to send my VP30 in.

-- Peter

Looking more and more like a fix for the vertical stripes can only be achieved in hardware. My guess is that they are still trying to find a fix in software that would avoid having to recall all the affected units. If you want a quick fix (and possibly the ONLY fix, I would suggest that you ask DVDO for a replacement unit/PCB swap over now.

So about a week ago I posted about my VP50 woes after I installed my S3 HD TiVo. In short the video through the VP50 was great, but the audio was going silent requiring wall power to be pulled to resolve it. Now pulling wall power on my unit while it's running will usually cause some sort of video corruption that can only be fixed by a hard reset which wipes out all the settings. After this happened a a couple times in a row I was literally yelling at my VP50. I've been living with the brief audio dropouts for about a year and now I'm yelling at a piece of hardware. Life is too short for this.

I ordered an Alchemy2 D.DaD (http://www.alchemy2.com/site/store.html). I had some trouble getting the order to go through on their site and never received a confirmation email (could have been lost in a spam filter somewhere), but the package arrived very quickly, before I got around to calling to follow up on the order.

The product is well built. It contains two optical ins and two coax ins as well as two optical outs and two coax outs. All the outputs are live all the time. The interface is simple. You can set the delay time in miliseconds for each input. The remote has discretes for each input as well as discretes for 10 programmable delay presets. The device can pass DTS, Dolby Digital, PCM and "any signal that can be transmitted over S/PDIF." The package also contains the Monster ISF calibration disc, which isn't up to the standards of DVE or Avia, but a nice bonus nonetheless.

So far the D.DaD is performing well. It's adding a needed audio delay to my system and has been running for days without an audio dropout or complete audio loss, which is better than I can say for the VP50. I'll keep this thread posted about its performance over the long run as the audio problems on the VP50 weren't noticeable at first. I don't know that the dejitter circuit does anything to improve sound quality. There's no way to disable it to do an A/B comparison. Sound quality seems pretty close to directly connected to my amp. The main downside is loosing HDMI for audio and having to run a bunch of extra cables to the delay box.

Anyway, I know that this is only a workaround for ABTs busted audio routing and it is beyond lame that I had to shell out extra cash to get my system working again, but this might be a solution for others frustrated like me. I used to be quite a DVDO fan, but I might jump ship on the next upgrade if they haven't straightened things out by then.

- Collin

That's ridiculous, you should send ABT a bill for the Alchemy2 unit. While I've never used the HDMI audio portion of the VP30/50, mainly because I've followed the saga on this board, and because my equipment is already wired to an AVR that does delay per input, I too, will be thinking long and hard about purchasing any further product development from ABT.

Those sorts of problems, the fact that Dale Adams is no longer with ABT, and the fact that Josh doesn't seem to respond to the really negative feedback here, makes me wonder just where ABT will stand in my video processor future.



collinp, still no problem with the native output from the S3?

That's ridiculous, you should send ABT a bill for the Alchemy2 unit. While I've never used the HDMI audio portion of the VP30/50, mainly because I've followed the saga on this board, and because my equipment is already wired to an AVR that does delay per input, I too, will be thinking long and hard about purchasing any further product development from ABT.

Those sorts of problems, the fact that Dale Adams is no longer with ABT, and the fact that Josh doesn't seem to respond to the really negative feedback here, makes me wonder just where ABT will stand in my video processor future.



No kidding. Having to shell out another $450.00 for a work around due to the audio problems is indeed ridiculous.

That's ridiculous, you should send ABT a bill for the Alchemy2 unit.

Ha! I probably should. The thought did cross my mind.

collinp, still no problem with the native output from the S3?

No native res problems yet thank god. When the res switches there's a second or two of blackness and then the VP50 locks on and I get a picture. Every time so far. Since the main difference in our setups is what comes after the VP50 in the HDMI chain, I'd guess that something further down the line is getting confused or is confusing the VP50.

- Collin

No kidding. Having to shell out another $450.00 for a work around due to the audio problems is indeed ridiculous.

Yeah it is ridiculous. I just got to a point where I realized the frustration and waiting for DVDO to get their act together wasn't worth it. As with most things in HT this problem could be solved with a little cash. I of course would rather have put my cash towards a sexier toy, but in the long run this will help my sanity greatly. I don't doubt some others on this board might choose to go a similar route.

- Collin

I've never used the HDMI audio portion of the VP30/50, mainly because I've followed the saga on this board, and because my equipment is already wired to an AVR that does delay per input

I should clarify that both the complete audio loss problems and the brief audio dropouts happened to me over optical, coax, and HDMI.

- Collin

No native res problems yet thank god. When the res switches there's a second or two of blackness and then the VP50 locks on and I get a picture. Every time so far. Since the main difference in our setups is what comes after the VP50 in the HDMI chain, I'd guess that something further down the line is getting confused or is confusing the VP50.

- Collin
Not sure if I mentioned it before, but it happens when going from a 1080i channel to the 720 native menus, either the menu will display but the return to the channel results in a black screen, or the menu doesn't display, only a black screen.

The thing I'm not sure about is why the output of the VP50 would change, which could mean that the problem is between the VP50 and the display, the display is always fed a 1080i signal(CRT-RPTV). I wonder if there is a brief loss of HDCP that might be causing it, I'll have to watch the VP50 lights when I try it again.

Yeah it is ridiculous. I just got to a point where I realized the frustration and waiting for DVDO to get their act together wasn't worth it. As with most things in HT this problem could be solved with a little cash. I of course would rather have put my cash towards a sexier toy, but in the long run this will help my sanity greatly. I don't doubt some others on this board might choose to go a similar route.

- Collin

I assume you took that route because your AVR does not have lip sync?
It is nice to know a separate device does exist for those who don't have
lip sync in their AVR.

I don't have the audio problem on the VP50 - BECAUSE all my Audio goes directly to my AVR.

I assume you took that route because your AVR does not have lip sync?
It is nice to know a separate device does exist for those who don't have
lip sync in their AVR.

I don't have the audio problem on the VP50 - BECAUSE all my Audio goes directly to my AVR.


Same here.
I route all audio from 3 different players directly to my reciever which does not have any lypsync control and everything works fine and is in perfect sync.

I suggest that everyone should try the direct connection first and see if you even need to go thru the VP50.

Same here.
I route all audio from 3 different players directly to my reciever which does not have any lypsync control and everything works fine and is in perfect sync.

I suggest that everyone should try the direct connection first and see if you even need to go thru the VP50.

In my case my AVR does have Lip Sync - but I have yet to DETECT any need for it.

In my case my AVR does have Lip Sync - but I have yet to DETECT any need for it.

Same for me.

I think it is a known fact that there are other ways to handle the audio, but that's not the point, the point is through 2 products cycles the audio problem has persisted and there doesn't seem to be any solution in sight.

When doing a lot of processing on the video signal, having the audio delay timed precisely to the delay caused by the particular processing is a very nice feature, too bad it doesn't work reliably.

I don't have the audio problem on the VP50 - BECAUSE all my Audio goes directly to my AVR...

Same here...
I route all audio from 3 different players directly to my reciever

Same for me...

Seems like the preference, in general, is to bypass the audio part of our Audio/Video processor-switcher due to its poor performance in a major area of its feature set. Every day I am more certain that I will do the same, including bypassing the DVDO VPXX completely in the future - great trade deals notwithstanding. I see a Crystalio or similar in my HT some day. I certainly no longer have sufficient confidence in DVDO's claims for future units, based on the performance of the last two (VP30 and VP50). The video may be wonderful and the trade-up policy is great, but the "hub" and "switch" nature of the units were also a large part of my decision. That is failing miserably due to these audio issues.

Those sorts of problems, the fact that Dale Adams is no longer with ABT, and the fact that Josh doesn't seem to respond to the really negative feedback here, makes me wonder just where ABT will stand in my video processor future.



Can't disagree with that - especially re Josh. Since he is posting on the VP30 thread, he obviously isn't " on vacation," "away from his computer", or "out of the country." If he is waiting until they fix the problems to post here, we probably won't hear from him until he announces the new VP70.

btw - glad to know that swapping units fixes the stripes. but otoh, swapping 30s, or even getting a new 50 does nothing to fix audio.

I'll second the idea of sending DVDO the bill for the Alchemy unit - either that, or they should include one with each VP, or at least include a gift card/coupon to allow owners to get one if they want it.

i've always avoided having a cable STB, arguing that i didn't need one more remote to deal with.

now that i've seen what my vp50/jvc56fn97 combo can do with 480i video recorded with my BeyondTV system, i realize that the only way i can get that quality for liveTV is to use an STB to tune the TV channels and feed the STB into the vp50.

with my networked media players, i have to change the output resolution between 480i (component), 720p (hdmi) and 1080i (hdmi) manually since there is no 'passthrough' mode yet on the Zensonic z500.

are the cable STB's (i have comcast) capable of passthrough mode so that the 480i/720p/1080i are automatically passed without additional scaling?
or do i have the same problem as with the z500?
i've heard that Tivo and satellite may have passthrough modes but haven't found any information on cable STBs.

are any of you doing this? or know of a solution?

i'm truly blown away by the quality of the vp50/jvc pair when the vp50 scales to 1080p and the jvc is used in 1-1 pixel mapping mode....it's not HD but it is much better than i'd hoped for

Depends on what equipment Comcast is using. If it's a Motorola area, they have a setting to allow 480i output when you're watching a 480i channel and it will switch back to either 1080i or 720p, whichever one you set it to, on the HD channels. If it's a Scientific Atlanta area, I believe their DVR units do have native output.

Not sure if I mentioned it before, but it happens when going from a 1080i channel to the 720 native menus, either the menu will display but the return to the channel results in a black screen, or the menu doesn't display, only a black screen.


I get a black screen, but then a second or so later the video pops in. A lot of what I've been watching on the S3 is 1080i stuff lately, so this has gotten a lot of testing over the past week or so. It's a bummer you're not getting to use native rate, I hope it doesn't start happening in my setup.

The thing I'm not sure about is why the output of the VP50 would change, which could mean that the problem is between the VP50 and the display, the display is always fed a 1080i signal(CRT-RPTV). I wonder if there is a brief loss of HDCP that might be causing it, I'll have to watch the VP50 lights when I try it again.

HDCP's got keys flying all over the place and the sources and displays often don't get much testing with repeaters like the VP50. I'm just speculating that it could be something further down the stream, chiefly because that's the only real difference in our setups.

- Collin

I assume you took that route because your AVR does not have lip sync?
It is nice to know a separate device does exist for those who don't have
lip sync in their AVR.

Of course the product that was really supposed to solve this was the DVDO and it did flawlessly with the HD+.

Yeah, unfortunately, I've got no delay in my receiver. I considered a new receiver, but now just doesn't seem the time for a new receiver. It would be a much bigger cash outlay than the delay box and I want to wait for these next gen audio codecs to stabilize a bit before upgrading. Also I love my current receiver it sounds great and has been one of the most reliable consumer electronics products I've ever owned. I suppose it could be complicit in the audio dropouts, but I doubt it. I dug through the old equipment in the basement and tried an old HK receiver as well as a Sony outboard Dolby Digital decoder and both of them suffered dropouts eventually.

I don't have the audio problem on the VP50 - BECAUSE all my Audio goes directly to my AVR.

And presumably you're tuning the delay in your receiver. I measured the film mode processing time of the VP50 for 480i/1080i at about 55 milliseconds. Then I realized I could figure out the processing time from the default delay added to the lipsync menu (56 milliseconds). On top of this I've got about a 39 milliseconds processing time in the DLP. 95 milliseconds of video delay is pretty noticeable.

- Collin

i've always avoided having a cable STB, arguing that i didn't need one more remote to deal with.

Well, I'm sure it's obvious, but a good universal remote can handle multi-remote issues.

I've heard that Tivo and satellite may have passthrough modes but haven't found any information on cable STBs.

The S3 HD TiVo will output native resolution and can be configured to work with Comcast cable cards, which is what I'm doing. The only limitation is its (currently) high price and inability to do PPV (no biggie for me). I have had no trouble with the native rate switching and the VP50, though keenan reports some unreliability in his setup.

- Collin

Depends on what equipment Comcast is using. If it's a Motorola area, they have a setting to allow 480i output when you're watching a 480i channel and it will switch back to either 1080i or 720p, whichever one you set it to, on the HD channels. If it's a Scientific Atlanta area, I believe their DVR units do have native output.

thanks......i have a MOT6200 right now (not hooked up to a TV set) that is integrated into my BTV PVR system and i know that one won't do what i need....i was hoping there might be other boxes that would....... i'll have to check if they have any of the SA units around.....their website shows both MOT and SA boxes but state that it depends on where you live

anyone out there have an SA unit they are using in native output?

Hello everyone - I am currently running a Tosh HD-A1 into a Denon receiver (HDMI in/out for True HD ability), which feeds my Samsung 1080p DLP. If I decided to give the 50 a test drive, would it best to connect with this configuration?

HD-A1 >>> Denon >>> VP50 >>> Samsung

I get a black screen, but then a second or so later the video pops in. A lot of what I've been watching on the S3 is 1080i stuff lately, so this has gotten a lot of testing over the past week or so. It's a bummer you're not getting to use native rate, I hope it doesn't start happening in my setup.



HDCP's got keys flying all over the place and the sources and displays often don't get much testing with repeaters like the VP50. I'm just speculating that it could be something further down the stream, chiefly because that's the only real difference in our setups.

- Collin
I get/got the momentary black screen as well, only lately it stays black. :p

I still haven't pulled the plug on the VP50, too lazy to reset everything. :D

thanks......i have a MOT6200 right now (not hooked up to a TV set) that is integrated into my BTV PVR system and i know that one won't do what i need....i was hoping there might be other boxes that would....... i'll have to check if they have any of the SA units around.....their website shows both MOT and SA boxes but state that it depends on where you live

anyone out there have an SA unit they are using in native output?
If you have a Moto now, it means your area uses Moto equipment and you won't have the option of using SA equipment.

Hello everyone - I am currently running a Tosh HD-A1 into a Denon receiver (HDMI in/out for True HD ability), which feeds my Samsung 1080p DLP. If I decided to give the 50 a test drive, would it best to connect with this configuration?

HD-A1 >>> Denon >>> VP50 >>> Samsung
That's how I have my HD-A1 hooked up using a Denon 3806 and it works great.

Hello everyone - I am currently running a Tosh HD-A1 into a Denon receiver (HDMI in/out for True HD ability), which feeds my Samsung 1080p DLP. If I decided to give the 50 a test drive, would it best to connect with this configuration?

HD-A1 >>> Denon >>> VP50 >>> Samsung
This is how I have mine connected with my HLR 1080P Samsung. It looks and sounds great. Although with the HLS series it should look even better since it will take 1080P form the VP50.

The only problem with that series wiring is that you can't add a Motorola DVR box via HDMI that way. The Moto 6412, etc will see the Denon as an HDMI repeater and won't work. You will have to run different audio/video wiring for the Moto STB, which may complicate any programmed remote or switching.

And presumably you're tuning the delay in your receiver. I measured the film mode processing time of the VP50 for 480i/1080i at about 55 milliseconds. Then I realized I could figure out the processing time from the default delay added to the lipsync menu (56 milliseconds). On top of this I've got about a 39 milliseconds processing time in the DLP. 95 milliseconds of video delay is pretty noticeable.

- Collin

I finally threw in the towel. My HR10-250 caused 3 separate audio failures in 1 hour. I'm now routing all audio to my AVR. How do you calculate the amount of delay needed for each input?

I finally threw in the towel. My HR10-250 caused 3 separate audio failures in 1 hour. I'm now routing all audio to my AVR. How do you calculate the amount of delay needed for each input?

Well you can figure out the DVDO's delay time for particular input/mode by looking at the minimum audio delay setting. For instance at 1080i the audio delay is set to zero by default, but this actually means 0 additional delay beyond what time the DVDO needs to process the video. You can actually tune a negative delay. If you move the audio delay setting all the way to the left I get -56 milliseconds. This means that it takes the DVDO about 56 milliseconds to process 1080i in film mode.

To get accurate measurements of end to end delay time in my system. I use a light probe and a mic connected to a scopemeter. Here's a quick link on the general technique. http://www.reed-electronics.com/tmworld/article/CA187591.html. There are cheaper ways to get this measurement however if you don't have a scope. You should be able to connect a photocell (<$1 at RadioShack) and a mic to a mic amp and then use a sound recording program to record the light signal and the sound signal at the same time. The light signal will obviously not sound good, but you should be able to get an accurate measurement of the difference by looking at the resulting wave forms in a sound editor. In most sound programs you should be able to get the time in milliseconds of the two points.

Most sync test patterns contain a sound and some sort of flash that should coincide with the sound. Just put the photocell on the screen so it measures the changing image pattern and a mic at the listening position to measure audo. The Avia Pro CE test DVD has a good AV sync pattern. DVE has a sync pattern, but it seems way off to me.

- Collin

Well you can figure out the DVDO's delay time for particular input/mode by looking at the minimum audio delay setting. For instance at 1080i ... I get -56 milliseconds.To expand on that, here are all the delays from my VP50:
Auto, Video, or Film deinterlacing, video or film source: 56ms (a little over 3 frames at 60fps)
Any progressive source: 56ms
Game Mode 2 deinterlacing on 480i: 23ms
Game Mode 1 deinterlacing on 480i: 6ms

According to a post by Dale in another thread, the reason that progressive sources have as much delay as if they were undergoing full deinterlacing is the VP50's new progressive source cadence detection. Obviously, gamers need to be able to turn this off... (say it with me) it's coming in a future firmware update. Until then, games are actually more responsive when set to produce interlaced output. Can anyone check what the delay was for progessive sources on the VP30?

I don't have any 1080i sources to test, but it sounds like the delay is the same as with 480i. So for people who never use Game Mode deinterlacing, a constant additional 56ms audio delay on you AVR or other equipment would probably do. [EDIT: Actually, I forgot to consider PAL sources. They probably have a different delay since it's based on framerate.] Of course, it's still nice to have audio go through the VP50 for switching purposes, especially if some sources are game machines and use those deinterlacing modes with different lags.

A nice little touch in some future firmware might be to add the current processing delay to the Info screen, or somehow make the number more accessible.

Tonight I tried watching some of the same DVD with which I had noticed (with high frequency) the flashing white line segment in the upper left corner of the image with my original VP50-- it is the "Universal Legacy Series" edition of DOUBLE INDEMNITY that was released this summer-- with all the same settings, and I did not notice the flashing white line at all with my replacement VP50. So maybe it is a unit-specific problem too. (I'll keep looking for it.)

-- Peter

My oh my, the natives are getting restless around here... ;)

I am still waiting for my exchange stripeless unit. I hope to receive it this week.

I am truly disappointed in Josh's absence here, it is not the right thing to do. He or his management obviously think it is the best course of action for ABT and DVDO.

Personally, I find the abandonment of VP 30 audio sufferers abhorrent. I suspect there won't be an audio fix for the VP 20 or VP 50 either.

At this point based on legal considerations of, if I remember correctly (and I might not) merchantability of fitness of se warranties imposed by law under the Uniform Commercial Code, any (audio unhappy) unhappy VP 20, VP 30, or VP 50 owner, has the right to get a full refund from the manufacturer for his/her unfit unit. Personally, I use my unit only for video processing and once I get a stripe free unit, my VP 50 would serve the purpose for which I bought. But, if user reports here are true, the units do not do what they were advertised and marketed as doing.

I am no longer a practising lawyer. But if a request for a refund were denied, I would consult with a lawyer to determine one's rights. Certainly the promise of a free upgrade to an audio bug free VP 70 or whatever would be an acceptaby remedy. If some sort of class action suit wereto be filed by an eager beaver law firm specializing in class actions (if refunds etc are not given), the potential liability on a company's financial statements would not look well to a potential acquirer of the company. Law firms usually make a bundle from the defendant on class action suits. If i remember correctly, it only takes one unhappy consumer to initiate a class action.

I truly hope that t doesn't and wouldn't expect it to come to this. But the absence of communications here from the companies here should be abhorent to what have been very very patient customers. A we are woking on it statement after a year's wait is unacceptable. The company was quick to market here.

A few words here from company spokes person would recover what is rapidly becoming a substantial loss of customer good will. Just my opinion.

My VP50 is already audio bug free!(my VP30 was also)

My VP50 is already audio bug free!(my VP30 was also)Then you can't have a share in the class action suit! :)
Whew, it is just me, or is it getting hot in here? I feel like I should come up with three reasons why I love my iScan or something. The complaints are real, but man, it sure is nicer to laugh about something. When I discuss things, I'm often matter-of-fact to the point of seeming negative, when really I'm just tying to make something better. I suspect that might be happening here, too.

I'm just glad I don't any of the problems some of the people reportedly have. I guess my combination of components just happens to keep the VP50 bug free so far.

It just seems to get worse before something gets better. :)

Except for the stripes, I really like my VP 50. I am glad I purchased it and the company has treated me well.

My VP50 is already audio bug free!(my VP30 was also)

I can see that with different receivers or whatever that you may not see the brief audio dropout issue. I am however, quite surprised that you haven't been hit by the dolby digital / pcm transition issue on with the TiVo. This is very clearly between the TiVo and the VPXX for me. I have encountered it on the VP30 and VP50 on my HD DirecTiVo (IIRC correctly you run 2 of these) on my SD DirecTiVo and on my S3 HD TiVo. The only workaround I've found is to set the TiVo output to PCM down conversion for Dolby Digital. You don't have PCM down conversion enabled do you? It also seems to be tied to switching video resolutions as audio resolution changes. Do you leave your TiVo on a set resolution or do you switch it frequently?

I agree that it may seem that this thread has taken a negative turn. I am still very happy with the video performance of my iScan, but am very frustrated by these bugs. We haven't even been talking about the discrete code issues. I think we've all been very patient, but a year and two product genrations is a long time to wait to get things fixed on a $3K device. I love DVDO's generous upgrade program. For a small outlay each year I can get the latest and greatest VP. I wish all companies would do this. Nonetheless, I'll be looking at different brands on the next product cycle unless the situation has changed.

- Collin

I couldn't reproduce it either Collin (although I confess using a different box but from experience, if there's something that can go wrong, my SkyHD box will make it happen), maybe you've got a faulty vp50?

I can see that with different receivers or whatever that you may not see the brief audio dropout issue. I am however, quite surprised that you haven't been hit by the dolby digital / pcm transition issue on with the TiVo. This is very clearly between the TiVo and the VPXX for me. I have encountered it on the VP30 and VP50 on my HD DirecTiVo (IIRC correctly you run 2 of these) on my SD DirecTiVo and on my S3 HD TiVo. The only workaround I've found is to set the TiVo output to PCM down conversion for Dolby Digital. You don't have PCM down conversion enabled do you? It also seems to be tied to switching video resolutions as audio resolution changes. Do you leave your TiVo on a set resolution or do you switch it frequently?

I agree that it may seem that this thread has taken a negative turn. I am still very happy with the video performance of my iScan, but am very frustrated by these bugs. We haven't even been talking about the discrete code issues. I think we've all been very patient, but a year and two product genrations is a long time to wait to get things fixed on a $3K device. I love DVDO's generous upgrade program. For a small outlay each year I can get the latest and greatest VP. I wish all companies would do this. Nonetheless, I'll be looking at different brands on the next product cycle unless the situation has changed.

- Collin

On my HDTiVos I have the TiVo sounds turned off.(If they are turned on and I switch rapidily between the menus and the TV viewing(not something normally done) I would lose the DD audio over HDMI. If I use the optical output this doesn't cause any problems but since I only want to use the HDMI audio I turned off the menu sounds) On the Sd DirectiVo it's from the optical output and no problems with anything. Most shows I watch are in 1080i but when I do watch any shows on Fox or ABC I switch the resolution to 720P from the HDTiVo without any problems. When I switch the resolution I get a picture in half a second to a second. Sometimes I can see what looks like static when the resolution changes but I can still hear the audio when it happens. The audio continues.

flyingvee and everyone else,

I know it can get frustrating at times, but I can assure you that Josh is still out there and that they are working on the problem. I am under NDA, so I can't really make any comments beyond the fact that you can be fairly optimistic :)

At this point based on legal considerations of, if I remember correctly (and I might not) merchantability of fitness of se warranties imposed by law under the Uniform Commercial Code, any (audio unhappy) unhappy VP 20, VP 30, or VP 50 owner, has the right to get a full refund from the manufacturer for his/her unfit unit.

I am no longer a practising lawyer. But if a request for a refund were denied, I would consult with a lawyer to determine one's rights. Certainly the promise of a free upgrade to an audio bug free VP 70 or whatever would be an acceptaby remedy. If some sort of class action suit wereto be filed by an eager beaver law firm specializing in class actions (if refunds etc are not given), the potential liability on a company's financial statements would not look well to a potential acquirer of the company. Law firms usually make a bundle from the defendant on class action suits. If i remember correctly, it only takes one unhappy consumer to initiate a class action.

A few words here from company spokes person would recover what is rapidly becoming a substantial loss of customer good will. Just my opinion.

Those sentiments have crossed my mind more than a few times in the past few weeks - I don't think there would be too much of a problem instigating such - not that I have gone anywhere beyond thoughts, but there have been a lot of unfulfilled claims on the part of ABT. But I think I can safely state that pretty much everyone would be much happier with a working VPx0 than with a refund. After all, we all chose to purchase these turkeys in the first place - its not like we got them as company bonuses, Christmas presents from an aunt, or won them in a lottery. :rolleyes:

I just hope that there actually is something positive coming down the line.

I put my SA8300HD DVR's back into the VP50 as HDMI. I did this since the cableco did a major version upgrade to 2.5.066. I have seen no problems when switching the inputs between the two DVR's. With the previous version of the SA8300HD Software (1.8.112) there was a good channce that the DVR would reboot. That seems to have been fixed.

With regard to audio, I am a beta tester so I can not comment.

I feel like I should come up with three reasons why I love my iScan or something. The complaints are real, but man, it sure is nicer to laugh about something.

There are good reasons - picture is pretty darned good (except for those lucky enough to have the stripes or the white line); upgrade path is nice (tho one could expect or at least hope that the new unit would address the problems in the previous one :( ); and the customer support (tho the quality of this has diminished as much as that of the once stellar Dell, imho.)

When I bought my VP30, there were two main reasons why I purchased it, instead of the similar Lumagen models -- I am one who notices lip-synch, and 50ms would drive me absolutely buggy; that and the fact that when he was an active employee, Dale would regularly moniter these forums and post helpful information. He bailed me out more than once, back when I knew even less than I do now. Other forum members were firmly in the Lumagen camp, and there were more than a few who felt that the Lumagen provided a better picture than the DVDO units - but since I wanted the "built-in, automatic lip-synch," and I trusted Dale to help whenever there was a problem, it was an easy choice for me.

While the DVDO picture has been great with my fp crt, the lip-synch has never worked as advertised, and Dale has moved on to greener pastures (without a replacement rep from ABT.) Our new contact, Josh, has been hiding, apparently letting beta testers tantalizingly tell us that there are "better things to come." Its his company, his choice - but that isn't the behavior that got me to spend my money in the first place.

So that's as much love as I have, sidb. ;)

Just to make my position clear, I have no problems other than the striping issue with my VP50 and DVDO is replacing my unit with a stripe free one.

The company has been fully responsive to me and, since I use the unit only as a VP, I could care less personally if they ever solve the audio problems. But I do want it solved for others who purchased it with the belief that it could do their audio switching.

The company has some very good people.


But I am bothered that they are no longer speaking here, perhaps relying on people like Gary and Ofer to maintain their good will. I too did some cheerleading a few weeks ago after receiving an updating e-mail from the company.

But no longer. Let them speak and tell all directly in the open what is happening re fixes.

FWIW - I don't post here much but I'm watching this whole thread with fascination. I have owned a HD, HD+ and now the VP50. The picture and capabilities of the VP50 are VERY good, and I have never worried about audio issues since I have always just used my receiver.

I felt compelled to say that if you are simply looking for a good VIDEO processor, this is tough to beat. Ease of use and capability are excellent. (although I've not seen, nor used a CII)

If you bought the device because it was advertised as an "all-in-one" media hub then continue the beatings. ;)

hello all - I'm still on the fence re the purchase of a VP50. As some other, I would be using the 50 strictly for its video related capabilities.

My question is this - if one has their RPTV professionally calibrated and subsequently adds a VP50 to the signal path, does the RPTV need to be re-calibrated?

Yes, as the vp50 needs to be tweaked appropriately as you'll be wanting to cater for each input and any per-input calibration on the display won't apply any more as it'll all be coming in through one pipe

Aaron Smith of Dvdo has assured me that the upgrade for PReP will be available before the end of November.

But no longer. Let them speak and tell all directly in the open what is happening re fixes.It's hard to disagree with that. I work with open source software all day, so I talk with others about priorities, bugs, and fixes. I have daydreamed several times that DVDO's firmware was open source and I was good enough at FPGA coding to just go add a feature myself and post a link here to my version. Not the really hard things like fixing the audio bug, just little tweaks like turning off progressive cadence detection or showing the current processing delay in the Info window. Discrete IR codes, or customization of the way it interprets the existing commands. I'd even try tackling problems like correct detection of 240p video and scanline emulation -- things I care a lot about that DVDO may never get around to.

I know my daydream isn't realistic, in no small part because what I remember from my one class involving FPGA coding is that it is completely different from writing high-level software, and harder. I'm just so used to being able to, at least in theory, fix bugs and add features on my own at work, and it's frustrating to be powerless. I shouldn't have to be powerless and in the dark, too. Some communication about what is being worked on would be a nice alternative. Then I could know whether to get my hopes up for some quirky little thing I want that isn't getting general clamor, or to find a workaround, or to just get used to the way things are. And I'd know when to expect the big things like PReP and passthrough, too, which could influence my purchases of other AV equipment.

(Also, it would be nice if I thought anyone at DVDO actually played games on the thing. They clearly prioritize TV and film above all else, which probably matches a lot of the market, but maybe not as much as they think. No 240p/low-res recognition, mandatory progressive cadence detection, no analog 1080p input: these are problems. Again, communication = good.)

I think analog 1080p is a red herring personally (as a gamer) - give me Rez@480i over some generic **** 2008 at 1080p.

mandatory progressive cadence detection is very annoying and needs to be fixed, I'm using 1080i out of the xbox for now.
240p is kind of irrelevant for me but can see why it would be of interest.

And if we're onto feature requests; I'd like an onscreen indicator like the Lumagens of what cadence it thinks it's detected. A "nice to have" which probably should join the queue behind audio dropouts ;)

I think analog 1080p is a red herring personally (as a gamer) - give me Rez@480i over some generic **** 2008 at 1080p.I mentioned it because it's a game specific thing - the XBox 360 is the only device I know of with 1080p analog output and no digital video output. Of course, it's a hardware issue with the VP50 that it can't accept that signal, so it won't be fixed in firmware, but come on, did DVDO really not think about 1080p when they designed it? The whole point of this device over the VP30 is 1080p processing. I bet a lot of 360 owners are dissapointed that they can't use their VP50 if they want the best quality for their HD-DVDs or downloaded movies (assuming the XBox HD-DVD drive really outputs 1080p straight off the disc, which I assume it does but don't know for sure).

I mentioned it because it's a game specific thing - the XBox 360 is the only device I know of with 1080p analog output and no digital video output. Of course, it's a hardware issue with the VP50 that it can't accept that signal....As opposed to a hardware issue with the 360, in that it doesn't have a digital output in this day of all-digital displays and standardized digital video interconnects? :rolleyes:

- Dale Adams

OK. I can't resist. Sorry, forgive me Josh. They are very good at playing games. :)

The DVDO VP50 is one very fine video processor. I can't say that enough. And Josh is one very bright, fine human being. A good guy, but I suspect not at all an easy mark at the poker table.

As opposed to a hardware issue with the 360, in that it doesn't have a digital output in this day of all-digital displays and standardized digital video interconnects? :rolleyes:OK, that does warrant some eye-rolling. Still, I can't fix that, and it would be nice if someone would give me a video processor that would let me integrate Microsoft's dumb decision nicely into my system. The whole point of PReP, overscan correction, and several other features is to accomodate dumb sources that don't do what they should, right? I guess you can't accomodate them all, but I expect DVDO to live up to my impossible standards, dangit!

As opposed to a hardware issue with the 360, in that it doesn't have a digital output in this day of all-digital displays and standardized digital video interconnects? :rolleyes:

- Dale Adams

Hard to argue on that point. There are still rumours flying that MS is going to announce HDMI later this month, but many folks are suggesting that the hardware it not really setup for it. Anyway, outputing 1080i (component) from my XBOX360 for both games and HD DVD (into my VP50) is really amazing looking on my setup. I personally don't think 1080P would look THAT much better in my situation. SJ

OK, that does warrant some eye-rolling. Still, I can't fix that, and it would be nice if someone would give me a video processor that would let me integrate Microsoft's dumb decision nicely into my system. The whole point of PReP, overscan correction, and several other features is to accomodate dumb sources that don't do what they should, right? I guess you can't accomodate them all, but I expect DVDO to live up to my impossible standards, dangit!


Hmm... No - I thought the purpose of the video processing technology like PReP was to undo damage a source had done to a video signal. The video signal has to come from somewhere. It's hard to find a video decoder that'll take 150MHz in on all 3 color channels (remember it's RGB not lower bandwidth YCbCr). I don't fault - nor do I think anyone should fault DVDO about this limitation. There have been a few new chips out in the alst 6 months that might do this - but if I were DVDO, I'd be spending time getting inputs from computers to work (not just single-run game boxes - which go out of style every four or five years).

I've talked to DVDO several times over the last three weeks. Josh was on vacation in China - not hiding in his office. They're not posting pie-in-the-sky updates about upcoming versions of software mostly because of this thread (and I'm talking about the last three pages of "rant" from some of you).

Geez - grow up. Give DVDO and especially Josh a break. As I understand it, he's only told what engineering tells him (and if they're like where I work, they probably change their story enough to drive ANYONE crazy...). He has no control over whether it takes an engineer or two an hour or a week to find the root cause of a bug. This is probably why he's previously stated that he will no longer post any estimates about release dates - until they are concrete (i.e. "now").


Further (my turn for a rant suckers :)) with some of the utterly useless bug reports I've seen from some here "it doesn't work - fix it" - I'm suprised they're making any headway on any bugs. I've seen tons of reports that "I had a drop out or motorboating" with narry a source brand, model, software version type, connection type system topography, display brand, model, any software - whether you have a Gefen or some other intermediate device or a ridiculously long cable, etc. How the heck are they supposed to find similarities between 'yall and categorize individual bugs and causes?

Customer "A" has drop outs, Customer "B" has drop outs - but dang! They didn't have them with the HD+! Let's give them back their no-HDMI-clunky-HDCP-single DVI iScan HD or HD+ so that their problem goes away. Get real. That's not how you trouble shoot!

If DVDO says they are working on an audio fix and the Beta testers (like Ofer) are saying be optimistic (when only a month ago they were not so...) I feel the tremors of progress underway. Dale left ABT/DVDO, but I don't think that means "curtains" for the quality of work there (further how the heck would they expect to sell chips if the system business failed?).

I'll continue to wait and not complain like a guy who just got riped off buying a lemon car from his own brother... If I wanted to return either of my iScan's I'd find a way - if you're really that agitated about a piece of consumer electronics hardware, you're going to have a stroke.

Cheers! (:mad: Goose-fraba, Goose-fraba, Goose-fraba... :))

-LD :cool:

(:mad: Goose-fraba, Goose-fraba, Goose-fraba... :))



The funniest line in that movie....I still use it on the wife. :D

If you're really that agitated about a piece of consumer electronics hardware, you're going to have a stroke.I'm not agitated, I'm excited and want it all now, like a little kid. Maybe if I ask, I'll get some of it, and it gives us something to talk about between updates. This is a hobby, after all. No one needs a VP50. Except me, of course. I need mine. I just need it a little better... :D

Boy, just watched King Kong on the xb360 HDDVD drive via the VP50 and the picture is just awesome. 1080i to 1080p is SWEET. I'm one of the fortunate ones without any audio dropouts (I get plenty on our bedroom TV from the Moto cable box). For me the VP50 has been very good.

Unfortunate about Dale (real fan of his) and truly feel sorry for those w/ audio dropouts but the VP50 does spit out a very very good picture. Now if DVDO can fix the audio portion for those affected I can recommend the VP50 without ANY reservation. Come back Josh. I still love ya man.

Unfortunate about Dale (real fan of his) and truly feel sorry for those w/ audio dropouts but the VP50 does spit out a very very good picture. Now if DVDO can fix the audio portion for those affected I can recommend the VP50 without ANY reservation. Come back Josh. I still love ya man.
Yep, I think many of us still do Josh :) . All it really requires from you is to say to us "Hey fellas, we know you're still hurting over a few problems we're having with the VP50, but believe me, we ARE working on them and beta fixes are with our beta testers right now. Just hang in there a little longer - sorry, but I can't be more definitive right now. :) :) . I know that you've really said nothing, but just to "hear" your voice again is reassuring.

Further (my turn for a rant suckers :)) with some of the utterly useless bug reports I've seen from some here "it doesn't work - fix it" - I'm suprised they're making any headway on any bugs. I've seen tons of reports that "I had a drop out or motorboating" with narry a source brand, model, software version type, connection type system topography, display brand, model, any software - whether you have a Gefen or some other intermediate device or a ridiculously long cable, etc. How the heck are they supposed to find similarities between 'yall and categorize individual bugs and causes?
-LD :cool:

Just so as not to be labeled "some" ;), I have sent detailed reports to DVDO on a few occasions over the last year but they've never come back asking for more info or anything specific. I've presumed from that that they either know all they need to know on the subject and just need some hard graft or they're ignoring me. :p

This isn't a support forum so we are more likely to just rant here but if DVDO (or anyone) would ask for the details they require I'm sure no one here would refuse to give them. ;)

And to all the "it'll be fixed soon", "just wait for the next update", "this one sorts it" type comments... it's nothing I've not read here a dozen times in the last year so forgive my reluctance to do any chicken counting till I actually at least see some eggs. :rolleyes:

Having only owned the buggy VPx0 series boxes my faith in DVDO is mostly based on there participation in a couple of forums, when everyone in the UK forums was saying no don't buy DVDO buy Lumagen, it was the input from Dale and Josh that convinced me to go with there products. If they had not been around I wouldn't have risked it. I needed the audio features but that alone with no local support or fan base being vocal in the UK wouldn't have sold it.

Sure it's hard work to participate when things are negative but that's where good rep comes from, fortune favors the brave Josh so jump in and give some bait, you know we're an easy catch! :D

Yep, I think many of us still do Josh :) . All it really requires from you is to say to us "Hey fellas, we know you're still hurting over a few problems we're having with the VP50, but believe me, we ARE working on them and beta fixes are with our beta testers right now. Just hang in there a little longer - sorry, but I can't be more definitive right now. :) :) . I know that you've really said nothing, but just to "hear" your voice again is reassuring.

well put Phil.... that would be enough for me too .... !!!

Just pretend the post by Escon was by Josh instead. Now there is no need for Josh to post, Escon did it for him.

Just pretend the post by Escon was by Josh instead. Now there is no need for Josh to post, Escon did it for him.

Maybe he could also post the firmware update on the website :)

I was moving so only using the vp50 on a small display, now that i have connected a projector again i at times see a small white tripe pop up at the edge of the image is this one of the effects we are talking about?

Daniel.

Having only owned the buggy VPx0 series boxes my faith in DVDO is mostly based on there participation in a couple of forums, when everyone in the UK forums was saying no don't buy DVDO buy Lumagen, it was the input from Dale and Josh that convinced me to go with there products. If they had not been around I wouldn't have risked it. I needed the audio features but that alone with no local support or fan base being vocal in the UK wouldn't have sold it.

To be fair, there are a number of Lumagen retailers in that fanbase ;)

[QUOTE=danielo
I was moving so only using the vp50 on a small display, now that i have connected a projector again i at times see a small white tripe pop up at the edge of the image is this one of the effects we are talking about?

Daniel.[/QUOTE]

dunno - if it is, maybe I have it too - been seeing it on the LH side of my display, but just figured it was an artifact from the signal - a synch stripe or something - so have just adjusted the blanking, and viola! - it's fixed. :)

and since LD needs details,

Runco 980 ultra
shelf-mounted, front projection onto screen.
LG4200a stb, feeding HD and SD - that is where my line comes in, so again - never really worried about it. - one nice thing about crts, you can do a lot with them to work with the signal. Blanking rules. :D

Seriously LD - DVDO has my complete setup - or at least it has been sent via email, phoned in, and filled out on one of their forms. Maybe twice. No idea what shape file it went into (circular?) but they have all of my setup. Probably for most of the others, also.

To be fair, there are a number of Lumagen retailers in that fanbase ;)

Indeed, it is at least a bit more open minded on the UK forums these days. :)

dunno - if it is, maybe I have it too - been seeing it on the LH side of my display, but just figured it was an artifact from the signal - a synch stripe or something - so have just adjusted the blanking, and viola! - it's fixed. :)
I've seen this too. I've got a digital display (Sharp XV-Z2000) hooked up via HDMI -> DVI and I've seen this some on my VP-50, never saw it with my VP-30. I sometimes see a dotted white line in the upper left corner of my screen - it reminds me of the VBI stuff, but that's not what it is. It doesn't go all the way across, and for lack of a better term, it is dotted differently. My source when I see this is the HD DirecTV TiVo hooked up via HDMI. I have reported this to DVDO - I was told it was not a known problem, but would be looked into.

I've seen this too. I've got a digital display (Sharp XV-Z2000) hooked up via HDMI -> DVI and I've seen this some on my VP-50, never saw it with my VP-30. I sometimes see a dotted white line in the upper left corner of my screen - it reminds me of the VBI stuff, but that's not what it is. It doesn't go all the way across, and for lack of a better term, it is dotted differently. My source when I see this is the HD DirecTV TiVo hooked up via HDMI. I have reported this to DVDO - I was told it was not a known problem, but would be looked into.

Yeah, I've seen this also using a Directivo with HDMI. At first I thought the projector had got slightly tilted, but I assume its something about the VP50 doing it.

...I've talked to DVDO ...They're not posting pie-in-the-sky updates about upcoming versions of software mostly because of this thread (and I'm talking about the last three pages of "rant" from some of you)...Geez - grow up.... (remainder of this drivel snipped)


What a totally inaccurate, silly, misinformed, self-righteous and unknowing piece of writing that was. I was going to address it bit-by-inaccurate-bit, but it simply isn't worth the time or effort. Next time you feel the need to present such statements, first try reading (including comprehending) the dozens of posts before you that clearly refute nearly all you say - and, when you get to the "grow up" part - go look in a nearby mirror.

]I sometimes see a dotted white line in the upper left corner of my screen - it reminds me of the VBI stuff, but that's not what it is. It doesn't go all the way across, and for lack of a better term, it is dotted differently. My source when I see this is the HD DirecTV TiVo hooked up via HDMI.I have this thin white line that ocassionally extends part way across the left of the top scanline, and I know for sure it isn't a source issue. I discovered by accident that the line is still white even when I don't hook up all the color lines from my RGB sources, so they couldn't possibly be sending a white line in the input signal. It is definitely the VP50.

I really don't know, but if I had to guess, I'd say it's related to either sync timings that are a tiny bit variable, or maybe slightly nonstandard video signal voltages, both of which may be present in output from some of my game consoles.

(remainder of this drivel snipped)


What a totally inaccurate, silly, misinformed, self-righteous and unknowing piece of writing that was. I was going to address it bit-by-inaccurate-bit, but it simply isn't worth the time or effort. Next time you feel the need to present such statements, first try reading (including comprehending) the dozens of posts before you that clearly refute nearly all you say - and, when you get to the "grow up" part - go look in a nearby mirror.
HERE HERE,I completly agree with what you say.

I have the "white line" at the top of the image on a few SD channels thru my Comcast STB.
Haven't seen it anywhere else...

I've seen this too. I've got a digital display (Sharp XV-Z2000) hooked up via HDMI -> DVI and I've seen this some on my VP-50, never saw it with my VP-30. I sometimes see a dotted white line in the upper left corner of my screen - it reminds me of the VBI stuff, but that's not what it is. It doesn't go all the way across, and for lack of a better term, it is dotted differently. My source when I see this is the HD DirecTV TiVo hooked up via HDMI. I have reported this to DVDO - I was told it was not a known problem, but would be looked into.This sounds exactly like a problem I saw during VP50 development and beta testing. I don't know that it was ever resolved as I left the company at about the time the VP50 was released, but I never heard of any specific fix for this. This may well be the same thing as I saw then, but I'd probably need to see a screen shot of it to be sure. Is it solid or does it flash on and off?

- Dale Adams

The rights afforded to consumers by Lemon Laws may exceed the warranties expressed in purchase contracts. Lemon Law is the common nickname for these laws, but each state has different names for the laws and acts.

In California, "Lemon Laws" cover anything mechanical, including a toaster, as does the federal lemon law. The federal lemon law also provides the warrantor may be obligated to pay your attorney fees if you prevail in a lemon law suit, as do most state lemon laws.

the problem looks like is that the Humax box is doing the deinterlacing for you 576p ..... hopeuflly when the Prep function is enabled, your picture could improve dramatically... depends on how bad the humax box is at deinterlacing.......

with DVD, the picture should imrpve ... are you sending 576i out? you can check that on the info page of the DVDO ....

xbox and ps2.... the xbox looks much better through the vp50 onto my 50" NEC plasma....

Thanks for your response. it took me a while to test the 576i (via composite) connection. My conclusion the PQ is worse compared to the earlier 1080i via HDMI feed (also for original PAL 576i signal)
I'm thinkin of trading my VP50 for a CII after some testing to see if that realy improves PQ. The VP50 doens.t bring me that at the moment, perhaps the Prep brings something.

I have this thin white line that ocassionally extends part way across the left of the top scanline, and I know for sure it isn't a source issue. I discovered by accident that the line is still white even when I don't hook up all the color lines from my RGB sources, so they couldn't possibly be sending a white line in the input signal. It is definitely the VP50.

I really don't know, but if I had to guess, I'd say it's related to either sync timings that are a tiny bit variable, or maybe slightly nonstandard video signal voltages, both of which may be present in output from some of my game consoles.

I'm hoping this will be fixed in the next firmware release too ..... right now I'm overscanning with the panel to get rid of the white line.... its not bad... but not perfect either....

fingers crossed the next firmware release will fix most issues!!!

This sounds exactly like a problem I saw during VP50 development and beta testing. I don't know that it was ever resolved as I left the company at about the time the VP50 was released, but I never heard of any specific fix for this. This may well be the same thing as I saw then, but I'd probably need to see a screen shot of it to be sure. Is it solid or does it flash on and off?

- Dale Adams
Hi Dale,

on my display (NEC XR5 50"), the white line flashes on the top left hand side of the display ... on and off .... its present in all resolutions from the VP50 ... I can get rid of it with the display overscanning ..... never saw the white line flash on the vp30 on the same display ....

Hi Dale,

on my display (NEC XR5 50"), the white line flashes on the top left hand side of the display ... on and off .... its present in all resolutions from the VP50 ... I can get rid of it with the display overscanning ..... never saw the white line flash on the vp30 on the same display ....


Same with mine! I´M using a VPL-VW100 !
A friend of mine has the same problem with his Barco CRT using VP50 component out!

PerS
Norway

(remainder of this drivel snipped)

What a totally inaccurate, silly, misinformed, self-righteous and unknowing piece of writing that was. I was going to address it bit-by-inaccurate-bit, but it simply isn't worth the time or effort. Next time you feel the need to present such statements, first try reading (including comprehending) the dozens of posts before you that clearly refute nearly all you say - and, when you get to the "grow up" part - go look in a nearby mirror.


"inaccurate" hardly (see below "unknowing" at the end of this post).

"silly" was intentional - I'm not attacking anyone, just making a point. As enflamed as you are by my remarks (obviously - because you discounted my ENTIRE post as drivel - so either you think I'm a drooling idiot like a rabid animal or you think I'm being childish and immature) I am bothered by the blatant and continuing remarks of futility and negativity. Forgive me for not accepting defeat at anything without a real fight - especially when the "enemy" (for you apparently DVDO) is still trying to help me.

"inaccurate" is your opinion - as was my post mine (I accept your opinion as just that, and nothing more) and this one is as well.

"misinformed" I've been reading these forums for quite a while, so the only thing I could have missed is what dialog has occured between the posters and DVDO (and hopefully they were not calling or emailing DVDO and giving them EXACTLY WHAT I DESCRIBED WAS HAPPENING HERE).

"self-righteous" perhaps - but no less than the opposite rants from others here (welcome to freedom of speach :)), can you deal with that?.

"unknowing" I've talked to DVDO several times and the meassage hasn't changed once. That's all I claim to know "show me the money"...

Looked in the mirror - saw a person looking back. (Now what? I fail to have any great revelations - is there some Koolaid over on the table I should be drinking next? :D)

About posts to discount "nearly everything I've said" - I've read HERE that there will no longer be posts to AVS about features that have not been tested (Josh - post 5552 in VP30 thread). Dale has left ABT - but he was primarily working on the deinerlacer IP (Dale - post 1506 this thread) and since he's probably not the only engineer at ABT (Dale - post 1527 this thread) it's reasonable to assume they have at least one other person working on audio. People are posting here that they had an audio drop-out but not giving any other details about the conditions that casued it ("user" - most recent example post 1986 this thread).

This forum - like the Bible has passages that anyone can use to make their case (althought I like to refer to ABT employees when relaying what's hapening at ABT). I've shown you mine...


Dude - It's obvious that you are very upset at how your iScan has worked in your system. I've seen diatribes from you starting more than 100 posts back which is a complete reversal of where you were around post 1659 (when you were actually backing Josh up). The point is - all you are doing is getting more and more mad about the same problem and nothing has changed except your attitude here on the board (and man have you gone bonkers - I'll say it, so there's no confusion, that was an opinion). The problem your unit has in your system isn't even worth getting this worked up about as it can be remedied with a simple return - or a bit more patience for a fix. I see threats of "Lemon Laws" and class action suits - basically all you'll get if you win is a refund (something I don't think they'd deny you right now - assuming they can't fix it with either software or a hardware swap - with a software fix likely on the way, they'll be able to get the case dropped before it even gets out of arbitration) and you may drive DVDO out of the system business in the process (that would "fix" your iScan for Sure! Permanently :) - and I know a bunch of people who would be more upset about that than not having audio work 100% this week). So if that's what you want - do it and quit whining (which in my opinion is what this topic has been reduced to, instead of constructive exploration of the similarities between cases - which is less stressful and more productive).

Yes - there's something wrong with it. Yes - DVDO has said they are fixing your issue (same for me, only I believe them). The bottom line is that there's about >>20<< people here I've counted who are actively commenting about a limited pool of problems (and they get more organized and angry every post). I'm sure it will be addressed as they say it will. And I'm extremely sure Josh isn't sitting outside your window on a friday night diliberately pushing a button to raise your blood pressure for kicks. He likely has a lot to do - and now that Dale is out of ABT I'm sure that list of things just turned a heck of a lot more complicated (as did everybody else's job there at ABT certainly did -after all, someone has to pick up the slack...).

Patience my son... :)

Cheers!

-LD :cool:

Same with mine! I´M using a VPL-VW100 !
A friend of mine has the same problem with his Barco CRT using VP50 component out!

PerS
Norway


Ahh thanks all for confirming this, i figured it was the 'stripes' others talked about but i guess not. It seems a issue that more people have but not on all displays. I just went back to a 19" lcd using the same output profile and that is clean.

My problems was with a denon 2900/sdi but also a sat. box using component as inputs and digital out to a optoma H78 projector. Never had this problem with the HD/HD+/VP30/DL102.

Greetings.

Daniel.

...Dale has moved on to greener pastures (without a replacement rep from ABT.) Our new contact, Josh, has been hiding, apparently letting beta testers tantalizingly tell us that there are "better things to come"...

I've read at least one post from Dale and one form Josh in which it was clearly outlined that he (Dale) was posting on his own accord - not as a formal representative of DVDO. Now, outside of ABT - I would consider that fact (and that he apparently "self terminated" - which is what I presume most of us call "quitting") when listening to him talk about ABT even though he may have been involved in the development of a portion of the product (I have detected some bad blood in the wording...).

Josh isn't hiding. He was on vacation in China (unless he was doing such a good job hiding under the desk that everyone I talked to at ABT was under the impression he was in China - it's hard to keep a lie that straight). He's apparently out at a trade show in Southern California right now doing his job (as he has done many times before), and will likely be at CES in January 2007 like he was earlier this year. Josh does not and has not shared the finer details of his schedule with everyone in the world. I'd rather he not post that rubbish until he's telling me everything's done with the iScan (I have my own friends...).

Beta Testers are apparently under NDA so they can't give out any details even if they're really itching. Yes, I received a newsletter that described PReP as an "available technology" - much like it was described at CEDIA in that press release (nothing really new...).


...Seriously LD - DVDO has my complete setup - or at least it has been sent via email, phoned in, and filled out on one of their forms. Maybe twice. No idea what shape file it went into (circular?) but they have all of my setup. Probably for most of the others, also...

I'll say it again "some". Not everyone is doing the vauge complaints I've mentioned - I see a rather intruiging converstion about this white line bug in the top left corner. It's more constructive to see thread progress like this - where people talk about the conditions under which the errors occur, so that if DVDO (or if you want to single someone out - Josh) reads the thread - they can pass on information to the Engineers to help them home in on the actual cause (instead of spending months filtering through everything, and every possible input/output combination the VP50 supports. How many are there, >4K?).

Cheers!

-LD :cool:

Ahh thanks all for confirming this, i figured it was the 'stripes' others talked about but i guess not. It seems a issue that more people have but not on all displays. I just went back to a 19" lcd using the same output profile and that is clean.

My problems was with a denon 2900/sdi but also a sat. box using component as inputs and digital out to a optoma H78 projector. Never had this problem with the HD/HD+/VP30/DL102.

Greetings.

Daniel.

Do you think overscan has anything to do with this? What about the input resolution and colorspace (if applicable)?

Cheers!

-LD :cool:

..Dude...rant...more rant and drivel...

Quoting that equally uninformed, ridiculous response to easily disprove it in agonizing detail would, again, be a waste of time. Yes you are unknowing and inaccurate in many things you said. Telling others to "grow up" because you don't like their view is pompous and self-righteous. The rest (more ranting/drivel) is just supposition by you that goes typically off course and made with God knows what insight or special knowledge the rest of us don't apparently have.

I've said nothing of lawsuits or any other extreme measure, just questioned the performance of an expensive piece of equipment and seemingly endless promises for a "fix" - for many, many months. Initially I thought you were just uninformed since your join date is 1 month ago and this has been going on for quite a bit longer than that. I'll give you benefit of the doubt that maybe you read it all first - but no credit for comprehension or logic.

Yes, going back and searching my posts, I'm sure you can find much support from me for Josh and DVDO - and believe it or not, I still generally do, despite the problems. But that doesn't negate my right to some dissatisfaction about spending over $3k on a products proudly touted, advertised and sold via this very forum on features that haven't worked in two generations now.

If this limited performance works for you, fine (hint, despite your apparent belief, it's been far longer than "this week") - but please refrain from telling me or anyone else to "grow up" when you have amply demonstrated that you have not yet done so yourself (try that mirror again). You pompously lecture others first and then are shocked when you are taken to task for it, Dude.

It's obvious from your response that arguing further with you is pointless. Enjoy your HT equipment, but grant me the same right you have - to either praise or criticize it as we see fit - without some preachy, uninformed rant questioning the maturity of those who disagree with you.

Thanks for your response. it took me a while to test the 576i (via composite) connection. My conclusion the PQ is worse compared to the earlier 1080i via HDMI feed (also for original PAL 576i signal)
I'm thinkin of trading my VP50 for a CII after some testing to see if that realy improves PQ. The VP50 doens.t bring me that at the moment, perhaps the Prep brings something.
You don't want to use composite* if you can possibly avoid it. No wonder it looked worse. Surely the humax supports RGB over SCART?


*You didn't mean component, right?

This is directed at comments about lines in the image.

NBC has an orange line down the left side of the image. ABC has a green line down the right side of the image. CBS appears to be OK. I don't get Fox OTA so I don't know how they look.

I use the blanking feature on the VP11S1 to deal with these lines. I have one memory setup for NBC and one for ABC. I had also setup one for that annoying white line that blinks, which is caused by the VP50. You could also use the overscan feature of the VP50 to hide the orange and green lines.

Here are photos of my LCD display showing emulated videogame output at 640x480 from my computer. On the left, the VP50 is bypassed and the image is being processed and scaled up to 1080p by the display, and on the right, the VP50 scales the image and feeds into the display at 1:1, with Sharpness set to -1 in the VP50's Picture Control menu. This is using HDMI/DVI for all links.

http://homepage.mac.com/sidb/images/sharpening.jpg
First, know that the computer generates a 640x480 image of a 320x240 game, so each black square you see is actually four black pixels in the computer's output. The darkened horizontal lines are one pixel tall and simulate the look of the signal when displayed on an SD CRT. The display is 1080p, so the actual LCD pixels are even smaller than the pixels in computer's unscaled output.

You will notice that the VP50 scales much better than my display (no, the camera wasn't shaking in the "direct" picture), but the VP50 also "sharpens" the image and adds ringing around the edges. Look at the darkened horizontal line that goes just above the blue T. On the left image, it continues all the way across, but on the right image, it is overpowered by the lighter halo the blue T has acquired. The ringing effect is also very visible on the black diagonal line above the green area.

Does this bother anyone else? Can all sharpening be turned off somehow? It makes my low res videogames look bad (along with all my other sources too, to be precise, although they bother me less).

You will notice that the VP50 scales much better than my display (no, the camera wasn't shaking in the "direct" picture), but the VP50 also "sharpens" the image and adds ringing around the edges. Look at the darkened horizontal line that goes just above the blue T. On the left image, it continues all the way across, but on the right image, it is overpowered by the lighter halo the blue T has acquired. The ringing effect is also very visible on the black diagonal line above the green area.

Does this bother anyone else? Can all sharpening be turned off somehow? It makes my low res videogames look bad (along with all my other sources too, to be precise, although they bother me less).What you're seeing almost certainly isn't sharpening, but rather the effect of the filters used in the VP50's scaling engine. As far as I know this cannot be turned off. It may be possible for DVDO to come up with an alternate set of filter coefficients which do not ring as much as the current ones do, but this would likely result in a less sharp looking image overall. Improvements to the VP50 beyond this probably require a major redesign of the scaling engine. (And, yes, it bothers me too. You'll see this all the way back to the iScan HD.)

- Dale Adams

What you're seeing almost certainly isn't sharpening, but rather the effect of the filters used in the VP50's scaling engine. As far as I know this cannot be turned off. It may be possible for DVDO to come up with an alternate set of filter coefficients which do not ring as much as the current ones do, but this would likely result in a less sharp looking image overall. Improvements to the VP50 beyond this probably require a major redesign of the scaling engine. (And, yes, it bothers me too. You'll see this all the way back to the iScan HD.)Thanks! If that's the case, I would like to suggest having different scaling modes selectable like different deinterlacing modes are currently selectable. That would be a nice improvement in a core area that would really be a win for DVDO and its customers. I wouldn't mind a softer image in this case -- we're talking about an original resolution of 320x240, after all -- in exchange for a cleaner image. It really bothers me on this video source in particular. I think the darkened horizontal lines getting overpowered by halos on every edge really makes the ringing effect pop out more than on most video sources. I even prefer the crummy scaling (interpolating, I think) of my cheap Dell monitor (the left side in the previous picture), whereas for most things, the VP50's scaling is much better.

...Quoting that equally uninformed, ridiculous response to easily disprove it in agonizing detail would, again, be a waste of time. Yes you are unknowing and inaccurate in many things you said...

Uh - you didn't even try to expain your problem the first time around, and yet you spent so much time trying to discount my comments this time without even addressing the questions :)...


...The rest (more ranting/drivel) is just supposition by you that goes typically off course and made with God knows what insight or special knowledge the rest of us don't apparently have...

I've presented no mysterious "insight or special knowledge" - in fact I've derrived all information from conversations with ABT support or (primarily) posts on this thread as I aptly pointed out in my last comment to you. Any other guesses on how DVDO will behave are based on my personal experiences with them from the HD+ to VPxx (now VP50) line. Further, I don't understand how you can come to the conclusion of what is "typical" for me - since I've only had about 25 posts, and a majority of them were not in this thread.


...I've said nothing of lawsuits or any other extreme measure, just questioned the performance of an expensive piece of equipment and seemingly endless promises for a "fix" - for many, many months...

So I guess you missed the post five about mine from JStears... and you so quickly fault me for not reading the posts :p.


...Initially I thought you were just uninformed since your join date is 1 month ago and this has been going on for quite a bit longer than that. I'll give you benefit of the doubt that maybe you read it all first - but no credit for comprehension or logic...

The join date's one month ago - but I've been lurking here for over a year and a half - hope you're not going to try and hold that against me :eek:. I've been a DVDO customer since 1998 and still have my orginal iScan Plus.


...But that doesn't negate my right to some dissatisfaction about spending over $3k on a products proudly touted, advertised and sold via this very forum on features that haven't worked in two generations now...

I've never asked you to stop posting - nor have I told you to stop putting information on the thread - I've mearly suggested an alternate method of helping DVDO resolve their issues instead of scaring people away form DVDO (westa6969 commented recently that everything was getting so negative here - I agreed... thus the posts :D).


...If this limited performance works for you, fine (hint, despite your apparent belief, it's been far longer than "this week") - but please refrain from telling me or anyone else to "grow up" when you have amply demonstrated that you have not yet done so yourself...

Where the heck did you get my "apparent belief"? And how did you come to the conclusion that I've never had this problem until this week (which is false as it happens)? I likewise don't assume that your problem has been "VP50 only" - as I understand by reading your own posts, you traded up from a VP30 (I own both) and they share the same bugs. Please don't put your words in my mouth and then lecture me about how wrong I am.

That's drivel.

I agree however with your determination that arguing about the semantics of each other's stances is utterly useless and disingenuous.

With that - do you want to simply agree to dissagree and move on?

Stacey made a post about lines on the sides and a white line - and that it was affected by overscan. That was a useful post. Let's keep to that type.

Cheers!

-LD :cool:

Ray and LD. Cut it out already.

Ray, I understand your reaction to LD's post. I was going to respond to it but decided not to launch and escalate things.

LD. Stop the escalation. Enough is enough.

All. No one I know of is suing anyone. Nor am I suggesting that anyone sue anyone.

Reading all that has ben posted here including much formerly internal to DVDO posted by Dale, I have sugested that if someone is disappointed in the VP20, VP30, or VP50 because of audio drop outs CAUSED by the VP unit (drops can occur outside the VP (I lose audio all the time when watching HD over the air, no audio routed thru the VP)) , that it be returned to DVDO for a full refund. If refunds are not made, I suggested that legal remedies might be available but I would expect that a company might make a refund instead of facing those remedies).

Lemon laws do exist. I have never used one but I am aware of some of those laws.

Is your unit a lemon?

Hell, my unit because of the vertical stripes, is a lemon. But. DVDO is replacing it. Not all VP50's have the problem. Those are good sweet fruit. Mine, because it has stripes is a lemon. Kind of funny. But being the company that it is, I think basically a good company for consumers, DVDO is replacing it.

Now a statemernt that says we will fix your audio problem, just be patient, can only go so far. A year, at some point one can say I've waited long enough, I want my money back and be entitled to it.

Enough.

...snip
Stacey made a post about lines on the sides and a white line - and that it was affected by overscan. That was a useful post. Let's keep to that type.

Cheers!

-LD :cool:
In that spirit, let me make an observation or rather surmisal about what a future feature of the VP50, PreP (Progressive reProcessing - re-interlacing of an already de-interlaced progressive input signal, and then de-interlacing it [making it progressive again] with ABT's de-interlacing algoritms) might do to improve a poorly de-interlaced signal.

I've just bought a Snazio 1350 HD Media Player. This is not the thread to go on about it, but suffice to say that I am mightely impressed with it, particularly its HD streaming. Now, curiously, this player gives fantastic output PQ at OTHER than the standard 576p and 1080i resolutions over its DVI output (no 576i available over DVI). The resolution I use is 1024 x 768 and it's of course progressive as this is a PC resolution at 60Hz. BTW, I had hoped that I would be able to get it to work at 1280 x 768 which is the native RES of my display (and at which the VP50 drives my display), but the VP50 doesn't like that input RES - another little gremlin to fix as 1280 x 768 is a legitimate input signal. OK, so much for the pre-amble.

Because I can only use progressive output over DVI, I am stuck with having DVDs played on its internal DVD player (and streamed SD 576i files) both scaled and de-interlaced (remember the player's 1080i sucks PQ wise - soft and with some noise - probably because it de-interlaces first, then scales and then re-interlaces). No, my other 1080i sources are just beautifully de-interlaced by the VP50. At 1024 x 768, the PQ of the Snazio output from a DVD is still brilliant in terms of sharpness, Y/C etc etc (and comes very very close to my Oppo 971H on SDI), BUT, the de-interlacing is crummy. So, I'm looking forward to see how well PreP will perform with this HD Media player.

This is directed at comments about lines in the image.

NBC has an orange line down the left side of the image. ABC has a green line down the right side of the image. CBS appears to be OK. I don't get Fox OTA so I don't know how they look.

I use the blanking feature on the VP11S1 to deal with these lines. I have one memory setup for NBC and one for ABC. I had also setup one for that annoying white line that blinks, which is caused by the VP50. You could also use the overscan feature of the VP50 to hide the orange and green lines.

Well i got suckered into this *grin* was just checking if that stripe was the issue talked about. But ill take the projector out of the box again and see if i can provide some more input on this issue. My feeling is that its not source related and also depends on display attached and that it changed from the vp30. It looked almost analog to me that it was indeed a flicker effect/line about 20% of the screenwidth and about 1 pixel in height. Infact it sounds alot like what Dale described.

Ill try to nail it down and submit a bugreport but since i got several replies it seems a real issue that happens on more machines/combo's.

Daniel.

This thread went down hill after Josh failed to ask permission from us to go on a three week vacation (first in several years btw). He then compounded the error by not sending us post cards.

On return he has had the audacity to actually attempt to catch up at work and do a trade show or two rather than returning to this thread. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

It looked almost analog to me that it was indeed a flicker effect/line about 20% of the screenwidth and about 1 pixel in height. Infact it sounds alot like what Dale described.That's a pretty good description of the problem I saw in the VP50 beta. My best guess at the time was that it was some sort of timing issue inside the scaling FPGA. As I recall, it only happened on some system configurations (i.e., input formats and output resolution/timing). Overscanning the output by a very little should push the artifact off-screen, but of course you lose a little of the active image that way too.

- Dale Adams

That's a pretty good description of the problem I saw in the VP50 beta. My best guess at the time was that it was some sort of timing issue inside the scaling FPGA. As I recall, it only happened on some system configurations (i.e., input formats and output resolution/timing). Overscanning the output by a very little should push the artifact off-screen, but of course you lose a little of the active image that way too.

- Dale Adams

that's my workaround..... its not perfect but it works.....

This thread went down hill after Josh failed to ask permission from us to go on a three week vacation (first in several years btw). He then compounded the error by not sending us post cards.

On return he has had the audacity to actually attempt to catch up at work and do a trade show or two rather than returning to this thread. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

And then he has the cheek to post in other threads to answer peoples questions about DVDO products without coming back to this one to calm the masses with a firmware update update! ;)

I suspect next friday he may sneak in to plant a quick mention that the 1.01 Vp50 firmware is available... then run away in case it doesn't fix everything before he gets lynched. :)

I have a sony vaio xl1 HTPC and was wondering if hooking the output to a VP50 would provide any additional benefit since it is already putting out the image at a high def resolution? Would it provide color correction and a more cinematic like motion to the video?

And then he has the cheek to post in other threads to answer peoples questions about DVDO products without coming back to this one to calm the masses with a firmware update update! ;)

I suspect next friday he may sneak in to plant a quick mention that the 1.01 Vp50 firmware is available... then run away in case it doesn't fix everything before he gets lynched. :)


I don’t think anything will calm this type of masses until they could actually chow on something. rolleyes:

This sounds exactly like a problem I saw during VP50 development and beta testing. I don't know that it was ever resolved as I left the company at about the time the VP50 was released, but I never heard of any specific fix for this. This may well be the same thing as I saw then, but I'd probably need to see a screen shot of it to be sure. Is it solid or does it flash on and off?This has already been answered by others, but it flashes. From the later posts, it definitely sounds like we are all talking about the same thing here. I guess the only thing that surprises me at this point is that I was told by a DVDO representative that it wasn't a known issue. It's possible I didn't describe it well enough. Oh well - hopefully it is at least on their list of things to attempt to fix. If nothing else, I appreciate the confirmation that it's not just me -- I have enough reasons for people to think I'm crazy without me ranting about flashing dotted white lines that aren't really there.

I guess the only thing that surprises me at this point is that I was told by a DVDO representative that it wasn't a known issue. It's possible I didn't describe it well enough. Oh well - hopefully it is at least on their list of things to attempt to fix.That raises an interesting point. Should I be emailing DVDO with everything on my wishlist for fixes and improvements, or should I just assume that they will pick up on it, possibly from this thread? I have the white line issue, too, as well as maybe a dozen other tweaks I'd make if I were the king. It would be a shame if they could fix or improve something and just didn't know it.

On the other hand, the things I'm sure are high priority, like audio bugs, someone else has probably already mailed them about, and the things that fewer people want, I get the impression they don't have time for, so it doesn't matter. I don't want to make a pest of myself. Also, I don't email General Motors every time I think of a way to improve my car, you know? Does anyone else fire off emails every time they have an iScan concern?

Maybe that's another point in favor of more communication from DVDO in this thread. If some rough version of their known issues and priorities list were public, I would know what they're already aware of. Something like the bug tracking systems used by open-source software projects, and probably already used by DVDO internally, would be nice. The downside, I guess, is that it would provide ammo for people to really start ranting if they didn't get to all the issues quickly.

Ray and LD. Cut it out already.... Ray, I understand your reaction to LD's post. I was going to respond to it but decided not to launch and escalate things....Enough.

Mark, thanks for the advice, but I did end my last post to him with this: "It's obvious from your response that arguing further with you is pointless. Enjoy your HT equipment..."

Which should indicate that I already decided to take your advice, in advance. ;)

Thanks Ray. You da man.

I hate it when Ofer has to jump in and calm things down. Self modertion is always the best course.

BTW Guys. Four processors are more than enough. We won't be adding any others for this Sunday. There always will be a next time. :)

That raises an interesting point. Should I be emailing DVDO with everything on my wishlist for fixes and improvements, or should I just assume that they will pick up on it, possibly from this thread? I have the white line issue, too, as well as maybe a dozen other tweaks I'd make if I were the king. It would be a shame if they could fix or improve something and just didn't know it.



I would say yes, particularly for problems you should be emailing or calling DVDO directly. Even if you think its probably been reported before, your configuration may be different, or you may help them understand how many customers are really seeing the problem in the field. (The latter is especially important to help them prioritize bug fixes.)

Forums or broadcast email lists are good vehicles for discussions and sometimes brainstorming, but I don't know any product company that would consider them a good replacement for a problem tracking system. At most companies I've been at, customer enhancement requests were also tracked in that system.

As for DVDO versus GM, GM has a few more customers, and a much longer product cycle. DVDO can be much more responsive assuming they have accurate information.

eric

That raises an interesting point. Should I be emailing DVDO with everything on my wishlist for fixes and improvements, or should I just assume that they will pick up on it, possibly from this thread? I have the white line issue, too, as well as maybe a dozen other tweaks I'd make if I were the king. It would be a shame if they could fix or improve something and just didn't know it.By all means report all bugs to them directly. I don't think you should just assume that any bugs reported here make their way to DVDO. They might, and many certainly do, but that's not a given. The other thing to note is that DVDO will likely react more quickly if 100 VPxx owners report a bug than if only one or two do. For instance, there was a time when they didn't think the audio problem on the VP30 was a high priority because all the bitching on this forum had died down for a few weeks (which was likely because many frustrated users just quit routing audio through the box :rolleyes: ).

On the other hand, the things I'm sure are high priority, like audio bugs, someone else has probably already mailed them about, and the things that fewer people want, I get the impression they don't have time for, so it doesn't matter. I don't want to make a pest of myself. Also, I don't email General Motors every time I think of a way to improve my car, you know? Does anyone else fire off emails every time they have an iScan concern?Again, the more people who report a particular problem or who request a particular feature, the higher priority that is likely to get.

- Dale Adams

BTW Guys. Four processors are more than enough. We won't be adding any others for this Sunday. There always will be a next time. :)

Thanks Mark - again, appreciate the addition of the 4th. I know it throws off the concept of "ultimate processor shootout," but an established benchmark is always a nice addition.

Good luck; here's hoping you have new firmware installed on the new VP50. ;)

By all means report all bugs to them directly.OK, so which email address is the best for unsolicited suggestions? sales@dvdo, or support@, or something else? I could get evil and try josh@, I suppose :)

Thanks.

Hello everyone - I have an "off the beaten path" question that I hope someone might have some insight on.

Currently I have a number of VHS/S-VHS Chicago Bulls' Championship videotapes that I am in the process of transferring DVD. To do this, I am simply connecting my S-VHS player to a DV camcorder to my PC via Firewire.

However, I was wondering if introducing a VP50 into the signal path would significantly enhance the quality of the transfer. The biggest stumbling block would be how to connect the VP50 to my PC to faciliate the transfer to a storage device.

First, if this was possible, do you guys feel the benefit using the VP50 would be significant?

Secondly, is there a way to get video from a VP50 into a PC or onto a storage device that can be accessed by a PC via USB or Firewire?

First - no idea how you would get the video from VP to your PC - would take some kind of kluge - not impossible, but will leave it to better minds to figure out how.

But - to your first point, I was amazed - had some free time last weekend, hooked vcr (gasp!) to the VP50, made sure dl was set to video, and wow - my old tapes were actually semi-watchable. Which is the first time I could say that, since getting my Runco and the big screen on the wall. Huge improvement. Plus the HUE control finally works :) (I know - it works on composite in, but I couldn't resist.) So I know the output of the VP50 helps things out - if you can figure out how to get it in, and onto dvd - let me know too. I have a lot of early concert videos I would like to get on dvd, before the magnetic particles all leave the tape. ;)

Is there a really simple explanation of what PreP is and why I want it?

Sorry for the dumb question
Rick

Is there a really simple explanation of what PreP is and why I want it?

Sorry for the dumb question
Rick
My post back here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8901767&&#post8901767) may help, but others can no doubt add to that.

OK, so which email address is the best for unsolicited suggestions? sales@dvdo, or support@, or something else? I could get evil and try josh@, I suppose :)

Thanks.

help@dvdo.com according to their web page. I think that's what I've used in the past.

eric

I have marquee 9500 and VP50 (using VP50 5 BNC out, output resolution 1080i)
Some day ago, i checked my projector color balance with photo research's PR650
I used milori colorfacts software version 5.5.
I discovered VP50 have insufficient green color
for example, in case of marquee internal gray pattern, color balance is 100(red):100(green):100(blue)
but with VP50 internal gray pattern : color balance is 100(red): 85(green):100(blue)
i checked out with 40 ire, 60 ire, 80 ire , all that same

I feels VP50 default color have some large RED color. and cheged VP50 saturation value to -10.
can you have any information of that?.

By all means report all bugs to them directly. I don't think you should just assume that any bugs reported here make their way to DVDO. They might, and many certainly do, but that's not a given. The other thing to note is that DVDO will likely react more quickly if 100 VPxx owners report a bug than if only one or two do. For instance, there was a time when they didn't think the audio problem on the VP30 was a high priority because all the bitching on this forum had died down for a few weeks (which was likely because many frustrated users just quit routing audio through the box :rolleyes: ).

Again, the more people who report a particular problem or who request a particular feature, the higher priority that is likely to get.

- Dale Adams

Great suggestion Dale. Thank you for your ongoing help. I hope DVDO doesn't think of you as "a loose cannon" :) :) :) :)

....snip..Again, the more people who report a particular problem or who request a particular feature, the higher priority that is likely to get.
- Dale AdamsI think we should do both - report here so we are all informed that we are not alone in having a particular problem AND send an email off to DVDO with as many details as possible about the problem.

Does anyone else experience the huge difference in HD quality between stations. I have a Panny 900 with the VP50 and watch mainly sports. ESPN is absolutely brillant on my comcast cable but ABC is not much better than SD. I have tried switching the output from my cable box from 720p to 1080i but no real difference in picture quality on the bad channel. Any suggestions? It seems the vp50 takes a good signal and makes it great but still struggles with a marginal signal, I was hoping that the marginals would become good and the good a little better. I also don't see any large improvement in SD but maybe I am expecting too much. Anyone else notice such a large difference even after the VP?

My Comcast HD and SD channels are all over the place when it comes to quality. :mad:
You are not alone in this.

Like they say: garbage in, garbage out.

There is only so much a VP can do with a crappy source. ;)

My Comcast HD and SD channels are all over the place when it comes to quality. :mad:
You are not alone in this.

Like they say: garbage in, garbage out.

There is only so much a VP can do with a crappy source. ;)

Maybe it is the Comcast CABLE BOX. I have Comcast Cable - going into my VP50 and then my Ruby at 1080p to a 12 ft. screen.

I USE MY OWN CABLE BOXES - SONY DHG-HDD500 with Motorola Cablecard. The Sony DVR is set at 1080i output. I find it hard to detect any PQ differences between the major HDTV Channels. My only complaint is CBS has their audio level cranked why up and they add another 6db during Commercials. I HATE THAT.

fish 5225 - your first best bet may be to go to the HD Reception thread for your area - others there will be on the same system, can tell you if the problem is endemic or part of your setup. It is acknowledged that different cable cos (and broadcasters) can step on the signal, and lower the quality of what comes in.

I'm lucky enough where I am - I actually see the worst from NBC sports - ABC is usually pretty good; even Fox looks decent. I think the VP50 helps immensely on SD, but I'm on a 105" wide screen - is a lot easier to tell small differences, spot improvements.

Does anyone else experience the huge difference in HD quality between stations. I have a Panny 900 with the VP50 and watch mainly sports. ESPN is absolutely brillant on my comcast cable but ABC is not much better than SD.

What type of programming are you comparing? Sports programs shot on HD video have an inherently different look than filmed primetime TV shows. It's not a question of better/worse, it's just different.

Lost on ABC consistently gives me some of the best HD picture quality I get over Comcast.

Does anyone else experience the huge difference in HD quality between stations. I have a Panny 900 with the VP50 and watch mainly sports. ESPN is absolutely brillant on my comcast cable but ABC is not much better than SD. I have tried switching the output from my cable box from 720p to 1080i but no real difference in picture quality on the bad channel. Any suggestions? It seems the vp50 takes a good signal and makes it great but still struggles with a marginal signal, I was hoping that the marginals would become good and the good a little better. I also don't see any large improvement in SD but maybe I am expecting too much. Anyone else notice such a large difference even after the VP?

I see a big variation in quality from channel to channel.

I was just thinking about firmware updates, and I guess I have a comment on release style. DVDO seems to like to do one or two monolithic updates per product, and that's it. This probably allows them to coordinate their beta testing, and it maybe feels good to a certain type of customer who doesn't want to waste precious mental resources on awareness of all the different updates going on. It might also simplify customer support.

My preference would be for them to fix or add a feature and release a patch as soon as possible. If that means a new patch every week, that would be more than fine. There are some things I'm waiting for in the (fingers crossed) upcoming 1.1 release that have probably been done for weeks. There are some things that probably won't be in 1.1 that I wish would follow it quickly, instead of having to wait another six months for the 1.2 firmware. I used to write software for computer-controlled medical instruments, and our company did exactly that. I probably bumped up the minor version and sent off a copy to some hospital that needed some new little tweak or feature once or twice a week if I wasn't dedicating a big chunk of time to something major with higher priority. And this was with all the paperwork and testing onus of ISO 9000 plus FDA certification (let's just say that 15-20% of the entire company existed only for regulatory compliance).

Any chance that iScan updates could become more frequent and responsive? Any comments?

That would be fine if you could backup & restore your config, or if a patch didn't default all the settings

That would be fine if you could backup & restore your config, or if a patch didn't default all the settingsOh yeah. That. Well, assuming they fix that, which they really should do anyway.

That would be fine if you could backup & restore your config, or if a patch didn't default all the settings

I thought that was supposed to be a feature, or at least fixed, on the 50. I really don't want to go back and reread 1500 posts, but I thought that the 50 would save settings.

Course, no one has had a firmware update to see if that works yet, or not. ;)

I thought that was supposed to be a feature, or at least fixed, on the 50. I really don't want to go back and reread 1500 posts, but I thought that the 50 would save settings.

Course, no one has had a firmware update to see if that works yet, or not. ;)I think the beta testers have - I remember Gary Murrell commenting that you now no longer loose your settings - don't ask me to find that post though. :eek:

I think the beta testers have - I remember Gary Murrell commenting that you now no longer loose your settings - don't ask me to find that post though. :eek:

No kidding. But I was referring to us peons - those without NDAs.

Guys: Thanks for all the input. I will take your advice and visit the HD reception thread and browse. Josh, I used the sports example because that is where I see the greatest difference in quality. Most of the regular shows are all similar in quality. I am just assuming that ABC uses an older camera setup or just a poor signal for their video. I guess I will just have to wait until all TV is HD and then hopefully the competition will force ABC or Comcast to push a good signal. Thanks again for the help.

No kidding. But I was referring to us peons - those without NDAs.


don't think that was me ;) but I do remember someone saying that

-Gary

don't think that was me ;) but I do remember someone saying that

-Gary

I think what I remember is someone saying they didn't have to input the settings again after some of the beta firmwares but that then they got one update that did reset to defaults.

I'm guessing it depends on how DVDO are storing the values internally, if they change the structure because of adding a new feature then they probably have to reset to defaults in order to make the data structure compliant to that new version.

Typically in these types of devices you need to be able to save the config out to a nice labeled safe place, apply a new firmware, reset all data and then import and convert the labeled config back into the new structure.

They could have a safe store inside the VP50 but normally this would be done by extracting the data to the PC you applied the update from, this is what Barry has been trying to do with his tool. However he's waiting for DVDO to add some extra commands to the firmware in order to retrieve ALL the settings (might be in 1.01).

But yes more frequent updates would be good providing they sort this out first! ;)

I have marquee 9500 and VP50 (using VP50 5 BNC out, output resolution 1080i)
Some day ago, i checked my projector color balance with photo research's PR650
I used milori colorfacts software version 5.5.
I discovered VP50 have insufficient green color
for example, in case of marquee internal gray pattern, color balance is 100(red):100(green):100(blue)
but with VP50 internal gray pattern : color balance is 100(red): 85(green):100(blue)
i checked out with 40 ire, 60 ire, 80 ire , all that same

I feels VP50 default color have some large RED color. and cheged VP50 saturation value to -10.
can you have any information of that?.

Sounds sort of like a color matrix error. I wrote an article about color matrix errors here (http://www.gadgetbench.com/colormatrixerrors/index.php). The puzzling part to me is how a color matrix error would be introduced given your setup. I run digital, but I'm pretty certain that folks on this board would be up in arms if the VP50 had a color matrix error on its BNC outs. It sounds like you've got access to some nice calibration equipment, have you tried comparing the VP50 against a test pattern generator on the same setup?

- Collin

the VP50 does not have any color matrix errors in the DVI/HDMI colorspace outputs via the HDMI output, I have not seen one on BNC either, this was fixed from one of the first firmware updates for the VP30

set the greyscale of course with the VP50 in the chain, connect the test pattern generator thru it, or use AVIA DVD with color turned off (it's windows are slightly tainted)

-Gary

I will try to explain this again. There are to my understanding over 1000 discrete settings. There is no way with the current firmware to get at the myriad of memory locations that hold these vlaues. Some settings may be retrieved (for example those that are not dependent on a parameter of the input signal) and restored, but not all. The tool I wrote has a way of saving and restoring some of these settings, and can be modified (relatively easily) by a technically inclined (not challenged) user. BUT the tool can not get them all.

I have been in discussions with DVDO on them providing a way to get them all. When (and I did say when not if, as they want the same capability for regression testing and debugging) DVDO provides a capability to save/restore all of the settings, I will add that capabality to my tool and re-post it on my web site (www-the-gordons.net) The tool works for the entire VP line to my knowledge, but has only been tested with the VP30 and the VP50.

It is not a trivial problem (the difficulty directly proportional to what tooling DVDO supplies). It becomes complicated when you consider major firmware upgrades that might re-map memory, and the desire to be able to edit the saved values to have new and varied restoration files.

I believe however that we all can agree that this is a lower priority than some of the current issues like audio dropouts.

I have lots of free time but I do not work for DVDO (I do not work period, and I do not want to). I generally look for things to keep me busy, but a lady friend of mine has just come back to town so I am a bit pre-occupied with one of the most beautiful women in the world (Not just my opinion, but I am biased). Programming has taken a second seat.

ich have a question regarding the info screen, when the sound is connected via HDMI and it is dolby digital the info screen says "UNKNOWN" if its connected via Optical it says "Dolby digital" is this a bug or is it normal ?

the other question is, the frame rate at the output setup has only effect if i'm at the 50hz not at 24, 25 and 60 is this normal, my source is connected via 50hz hdmi (pal system) ?

by the way i have also audio dropouts

What would the best setting for color space be with this equipment:
Blu-ray and HD DVD player 1080i out to video processor via HDMI then video processor 1080 24p out to a Sony Pearl projector via HDMI -- Should the color space sent from the VP50 to the Pearl be RGB, YCbCr or ? considering the Blu-ray and HD DVD players send YCbCr over HDMI
Thanks!

Can the VP50 do 1080p@24 out?

What would the best setting for color space be with this equipment:
Blu-ray and HD DVD player 1080i out to video processor via HDMI then video processor 1080 24p out to a Sony Pearl projector via HDMI -- Should the color space sent from the VP50 to the Pearl be RGB, YCbCr or ? considering the Blu-ray and HD DVD players send YCbCr over HDMI
Thanks!

I use RGB out of the VP50 since this is the only way i can blacker than black to appear using a hd-xa1 and a DMp-bd10.

the other question is, the frame rate at the output setup has only effect if i'm at the 50hz not at 24, 25 and 60 is this normal, my source is connected via 50hz hdmi (pal system) ?

Sorry but could you re-word that, I didn't understand what you mean?

Can the VP50 do 1080p@24 out?
I believe the manual states it can output 24, 48, or 72Hz (ABT correct me if I'm wrong)

Thanks, I appreciate it.

I generally look for things to keep me busy, but a lady friend of mine has just come back to town so I am a bit pre-occupied with one of the most beautiful women in the world (Not just my opinion, but I am biased). Programming has taken a second seat.

Great stuff that programming has taken a back seat Barry!! Keep it up!! :)

LOL!

I use RGB out of the VP50 since this is the only way i can blacker than black to appear using a hd-xa1 and a DMp-bd10.


Hmmm...I didn't think to do that, thanx for the tip.

YCbCr is digital. RGB, RGBH/V, RGBHV are all analog. YPbPr is also analog.

My replacement VP50 arrived today. Transfered the SDI input and board. Fired it up. Viola, no more red and blue stripes. Great service from DVDO.

The VP50 manual says that RGB and YCbCr are digital outputs. I recently had my DLP calibrated and the calibrator set the VP-50 to RGB. It looks fantastic. I tried it on all three VP color space options and I really can't tell which one looks better. How should it be set? Is there a good tutorial some place that explains the differences?

The VP50 manual says that RGB and YCbCr are digital outputs. I recently had my DLP calibrated and the calibrator set the VP-50 to RGB. It looks fantastic. I tried it on all three VP color space options and I really can't tell which one looks better. How should it be set? Is there a good tutorial some place that explains the differences?

that is how i have it set up and it looks the best to me.
It is also the only way i can get the blacker than black information from my HD-XA1.

My replacement VP50 arrived today. Transfered the SDI input and board. Fired it up. Viola, no more red and blue stripes. Great service from DVDO.

this problem is easily fixed by doing the hard reset:
1.unplug unit from the wall
2.hold down menu and exit on front panel while unplugged
3. reattache power cord and power up

What problem? The red and green striping goes away with a hard reset? DVDO said that my and a few other units exhibiting the problem were defective and needed to be exchaged. I still have my old unit. I'll try the reset and see if the stripes go away.


Regarding RGBHV out, I set the output to analog, and then RGB sinc RGBHV. My projector won't accept digital RGBHV.

Mark, who's Viola?

Mark, who's Viola?

Hey-- give the guy a break-- he's working really hard to set up the equipment for tomorrow's tests. I think he's allowed a character transposition. :o

The correct typing is:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1) -
voi‧là  /vwɑˈlɑ; Fr. vwaˈla/ Pronunciation Key[vwah-lah; Fr. vwa-la]

–interjection (used to express success or satisfaction). Voilà, my new winter outfit!

Also, voi‧la.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1825–35; < F, equiv. to voi see! (2nd pers. sing. impv. of voir to see) + la there] Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

Let's face it, I've seen it written "wallah" enough times :shakes head in disbelief:

Mark have you tried different sync polarities? prolly dumb to ask that ;)

-Gary

The VP50 manual says that RGB and YCbCr are digital outputs. I recently had my DLP calibrated and the calibrator set the VP-50 to RGB. It looks fantastic. I tried it on all three VP color space options and I really can't tell which one looks better. How should it be set? Is there a good tutorial some place that explains the differences?

does your DLP have DVI or a HDMI input, do you know if it accepts 10-bit input if it's HDMI? the VP50 can output 10-bit HDMI, RGB/DVI is limited to 8-bit

-Gary

The VP50 manual says that RGB and YCbCr are digital outputs. I recently had my DLP calibrated and the calibrator set the VP-50 to RGB. It looks fantastic. I tried it on all three VP color space options and I really can't tell which one looks better. How should it be set? Is there a good tutorial some place that explains the differences?

It depends what your display/projector is doing internally. My Samsung DLP uses an 8-bit RGB bus internally and all other formats are converted immediately to 8 bit RGB by the HDMI receiver. So in my case there's no need to run any other format than RGB. Most of the newer 10 bit sets are using 10bit YCbCr 4:2:2 buses as does the YP50 internally.

RGB and 8 bit YCbCr 4:4:4 are very close in terms of bits per pixel and chroma resolution, they're just two different ways of representing picture information. On the other hand 10 bit YCbCr 4:2:2 has more bits per pixel which will lead to reduced banding/false contouring, but this is at the expense of chroma resolution. The eye however is less sensitive to chroma resolution and most sources are actually encoded with even lower chroma resolution than 4:2:2. DVD is 4:2:0 for instance. Though there is by no means consensus on this, I personally feel that 10 bit YCbCr 4:2:2 is the "best" of the current digital formats, but only if your display takes advantage of it.

- Collin

What problem? The red and green striping goes away with a hard reset? DVDO said the my and a few other units exhibiting the problem were defective and needed to be exchaged. I still have my old unit. I'll try the reset and see if the stripes go away.

Hard reset did nothing to help my original VP50's vertical pinstripe problem.

-- Peter

Gary. Mostly I have been using tri sinc component out of the VP50 into my MP5 transcoder which trancodes to RGBHV out. My projector is insensitive to sinc polarity.

Hey VP50 owners, I have tried to read through pages and pages of posts in this tread and I have not really found what I am looking for. So I am going to go ahead and ask this even though this is probably covered somewhere in this thread.

I just bought the new Panasonic 65" 1080P plasma. It will be arriving next week. I know scalers provide a huge improve over the onboard scalers.

Here is the million dollar question. Should I buy the VP50 now? I am concerned about the HDMI V1.3 which will probably be available this spring.

1. Should I be concerned about the HDMI V1.3 I am sure I will be buying an HD DVD player sometime down the road.

2. Will the VP50 give me drastic improvements? Currently we watch mostly Standard Def and HiDef Directv channels and tons of DVD's. My current dvd player upconverts to 1080i.

The other reason I want to buy the DVDO VP50 is because of the video and audio switching. I would only need to run one cable to my screen which will be mounted on a wall. My current AV setup only does component video. Using the DVDO will provide me with video and audio switching and keep things simple for my wife.

So should I run out and buy a DVDO VP50?

Thank you for you time.

No.

For several reasons at this time.

No one has a clue right now as to the quality of the video processing in the Panasonic. Glad to think you will be getting it next week. It should be coming soon but unless the large chains actually have it it is still vaporware except for those New York City internet places who last month said they had many in stock and could ship tomorrow. Yea right. A moronic salesman I was playing with at Best Buy said a month ago he would probably have one next week (from then). Wait until you get it.

Many have reported having audio drop out problems with the VP50. It would be hard to miss this in this thread but hey this thread is real long and is a very hard read with a lot of good info and a lot or drivel (my post here is drivel). The repeated theme has been great video processing, but route and switch you audio elsewhere. Some have no problems but many have reported problems. Wait for a fix if you want this as an audio/video switcher. Some say a fix is imminent. Some VP30 guys have been waiting for a year.

No.

For several reasons at this time.

No one has a clue right now as to the quality of the video processing in the Panasonic. Glad to think you will be getting it next week. It should be coming soon but unless the large chains actually have it it is still vaporware except for those New York City internet places who last month said they had many in stock and could ship tomorrow. Yea right. A moronic salesman I was playing with at Best Buy said a month ago he would probably have one next week (from then). Wait until you get it.

Many have reported having audio drop out problems with the VP50. It would be hard to miss this in this thread but hey this thread is real long and is a very hard read with a lot of good info and a lot or drivel (my post here is drivel). The repeated theme has been great video processing, but route and switch you audio elsewhere. Some have no problems but many have reported problems. Wait for a fix if you want this as an audio/video switcher. Some say a fix is imminent. Some VP30 guys have been waiting for a year.

The audio problems are real issues and a real consideration for a potential purchaser. The primary value of the VP50 is as a replacement for the video processing engine in your set. It's use as a media hub is severely diminished until (if?) an update is released which fixes the audio problems.

That being said the VP50's video processing engine is industry leading and think it will beat the internal processing of all but the highest end sets for the foreseeable future. I would wait until reports of the Panasonic processing is out, but I think the VP50 will likely complement the set nicely.

I'm a big movie buff and DVDs routed via SDI through the VP50 are shockingly good. Good discs are really close to HD on my set (a 720p set). I have not seen an upconverting DVD player that comes close to the VP50 except perhaps the Denon 5910. DirecTV SD is improved (via the HD DirecTivo) and 1080i HD is very much improved over my set's native processing. 1080i over cable (far less compression than DirecTV) through the S3 HD TiVo just rocks. Best picture I've seen, though I haven't picked up an HD-DVD player yet. Hopefully they ship that Gen 2 player soon.

- Collin

few comments:

1. the striping problem is likely a hardware issue, not a software issue (ergo, hard reset will do nothing to appease it).

2. last few firmware releases did not reset the values, we can only hope it stays this way with future firmware updates, but I have not heard any comments from ABT on the subject (positive nor negative).

3. HDMI 1.3 is still a no show (chips/etc.), same goes with sf24, we'll just have to wait and see. I personally think VP50 will be able to do SF24, but this will have to wait till more devices output and input it properly.

4. The main problem with the audio dropouts was that they were so intermittent (I can't comment on myself - I route everything through my 4306 A/V receiver and never have dropouts...) that there was great difficulty in figuring it all out. I believe that ABT takes this issue very very seriously.

3. HDMI 1.3 is still a no show (chips/etc.), same goes with sf24, we'll just have to wait and see. I personally think VP50 will be able to do SF24, but this will have to wait till more devices output and input it properly.Even the VP30 hardware is capable of 1080p/24sF (and has been since last Spring). It's all really just a matter of having the software turn it on.

- Dale Adams

No.

A moronic salesman I was playing with at Best Buy said a month ago he would probably have one next week (from then). Wait until you get it.



If you are interested in getting the new Panasonic, here in California Tweeter has them in stock. When I checked with them on saturday they had 21. Ken Cranes in Pasadena has them in stock and one even on display. I must say it looks awesome! I ended up buying my TV from the reliable guys ABT Electronics in Chicago. They were able to give me the best price. My Plasma shipped out on Friday.

Thanks for the honest replies, this is one of those things where I really want to buy the VP50 now. Running wires through the wall will be a pain and probably cost me $200-300 in more cables.

4. The main problem with the audio dropouts was that they were so intermittent (I can't comment on myself - I route everything through my 4306 A/V receiver and never have dropouts...) that there was great difficulty in figuring it all out. I believe that ABT takes this issue very very seriously.
Ofer, you talk about the audio problems in the past tense, many here might perceive that as meaning ABT has fixed the problems. I'm probably just parsing your statement, but it's a little confusing unless ABT has in fact fixed the audio problems. Might it mean you're just not using the VP50 anymore, or tried the audio portion and are no longer using it?

He said he doesn't route his audio though the VP50 anymore. I have never done it. Thus, unlike him I have never experienced an audio problem with it. Since he is a beta tester and under a NDA, if he has tested any audio fixes he is not at liberty to report anything about the fixes.

I expect to be a beta tester for he Lumagen Radiance. I suspect the beta period will be a several month period. When it will start I do not know. I am guessing late December. Obviously as a beta tester I will not be able to make any disclosures about it including that I even have it. I'll need a video DAC to even test it since it will have no analog video out

I got a Nintendo Wii today and plugged it into the VP50 using the composite cable, since component cables for that system cannot be had yet. I expected it to look just atrocious, so I was shocked to see the best looking composite video I have ever seen. I'll still be getting the component cables when they are available, of course, but I'd just like to compliment the VP50 on seriously minimizing my suffering until that can happen. I suspect most people on this forum don't use composite much anymore, but it's nice to know the support is there.

Collin,

I agree that the VP50 processing 1080i and scaling to 720p improves HD performance on a DLP considerably.

Thanx for the advice. ;)

He said he doesn't route his audio though the VP50 anymore. I have never done it. Thus, unlike him I have never experienced an audio problem with it. Since he is a beta tester and under a NDA, if he has tested any audio fixes he is not at liberty to report anything about the fixes.
Right, I don't use the audio capability either, I was just remarking that the way his post reads it gives the impression that the audio issues were resolved. I guess it depends on on you read it as obviously they haven't been fixed, at least for the hoi polloi. :D

I got a Nintendo Wii today and plugged it into the VP50 using the composite cable, since component cables for that system cannot be had yet. I expected it to look just atrocious, so I was shocked to see the best looking composite video I have ever seen. I'll still be getting the component cables when they are available, of course, but I'd just like to compliment the VP50 on seriously minimizing my suffering until that can happen. I suspect most people on this forum don't use composite much anymore, but it's nice to know the support is there.
That's good news. I don't know what they plan to ship with the console in the UK on Dec 8th, but good to know composite works ok as a fallback (assuming I can actually get hold of one of the damn things, most places are cancelling pre-orders as they aren't getting enough stock from Nintendo)

I don't think any owners of a VP50 are hoi polloi. Your average perosn isn't going to spend as much on a scaler as a TV.

I got a Nintendo Wii today and plugged it into the VP50 using the composite cable, since component cables for that system cannot be had yet. I expected it to look just atrocious, so I was shocked to see the best looking composite video I have ever seen. I'll still be getting the component cables when they are available, of course, but I'd just like to compliment the VP50 on seriously minimizing my suffering until that can happen. I suspect most people on this forum don't use composite much anymore, but it's nice to know the support is there.

Is anyone running a PS3 through the VP50? I just ordered a couple off Amazon this weekend. Hopefully I can sell one and that will mostly offset the price of the second unit. I'll use it for BD playback only unless the first one sells for a lot more than I anticipate, then I'll just sell the second one and wait for a cheaper BD player or the PS3 to be widely available in stores.

I expect to be a beta tester for he Lumagen Radiance. I suspect the beta period will be a several month period. When it will start I do not know. I am guessing late December. Obviously as a beta tester I will not be able to make any disclosures about it including that I even have it. I'll need a video DAC to even test it since it will have no analog video out
That being the case it looks like you already broke the NDA :D

As a potential VP50 owner, I am really disappointed to hear the VP50 has so many problems. Is it really confirmed that all VP50 have audio problems?

If this really is the case - is there another scaler that also does Audio switching that I should be considering?

Or if there video switcher that does HDMI, component, and audio switching. Seems like most switchers I have found are either one or the other, not both.

I don't think any owners of a VP50 are hoi polloi. Your average perosn isn't going to spend as much on a scaler as a TV.


Well, we sure are TREATED like hoi polloi. Maybe rightly so - I still have a ponytail, even if I lost the mullet. :p

Back to NDA - is that a new thing? - I was a beta tester for 1.07 with the VP30, and there was no NDA or anything back then. I even did some cheerleading - since Josh sent me the beta firmware, I thought he cared. Pretty cool. But evidently not cool enough - haven't heard from them since.

But really, when that came out, there were no restrictions, or requests for silence. Must be another change in ABT policy.

Collin,

I agree that the VP50 processing 1080i and scaling to 720p improves HD performance on a DLP considerably.

Thanx for the advice. ;)


Yes it does! I am using the VP50 for processing 1080i from a HD DVD player and a cable box scaled to 720p to drive an infocus IN76. The picture is just amazing.

Am I not using the audio section at all since all audio is process by my Anthem AVM30.

Am I not using the audio section at all since all audio is process by my Anthem AVM30.

Now there's a hardware solution I could live with - with every VP50 purchased, get a coupon for a free AVM30. Now if I wasn't a hoi polloi, I could buy my own... ;)

As a potential VP50 owner, I am really disappointed to hear the VP50 has so many problems. Is it really confirmed that all VP50 have audio problems?

If this really is the case - is there another scaler that also does Audio switching that I should be considering?

Or if there video switcher that does HDMI, component, and audio switching. Seems like most switchers I have found are either one or the other, not both.

I personally don't like to have the VP doing the audio switching. When the switching is done in the VP, you end up sending only one audio input to the Audio processor and it become an issue with audio tuning.

In my case all audio inputs are routed from the sources directly to the audio processor and by doing so, I could properly tune all inputs independently. This is a must considering that HD DVD player, DVD player and Cable Box don't use the same audio level at all and need to be adjusted independently.

With all the talk of the VP50's superior 1080i deinterlacing... I am trying to understand exactly what the REAL WORLD difference is between it and the VP30 that I own.

Can anyone post a URL of detailed screenshots or images that clearly show how these two types of deinterlacing are different from one another?

Thanks

Just out of curiosity, if you do not route audio through the VP and only to your Anthem, what happens to SACD / DVDA and HD Dolby? Aren't these signals all required to be carried over HDMI unless they are converted to Analogue and then carried over the analogue six channel direct cables? For example, I know that the Oppo 970 will not carry SACD over the optical or coax cables.

I haven't played with the audio piece on my VP 50 yet. my AVR committed suicide the day the VP showed up, so I'm waiting for the replacement AVR and contemplating how to route the audio with this VP in the loop now.

I personally don't like to have the VP doing the audio switching. When the switching is done in the VP, you end up sending only one audio input to the Audio processor and it become an issue with audio tuning.

In my case all audio inputs are routed from the sources directly to the audio processor and by doing so, I could properly tune all inputs independently. This is a must considering that HD DVD player, DVD player and Cable Box don't use the same audio level at all and need to be adjusted independently.

What kind of tuning are you referring to?? I'm curious as I have all the above boxes connected to my CII via HDMI and I send only a single fiber connection to my receiver (the HD-DVD is connected via analog to the receiver to get True-HD sound). I don't find any problems with the sound in this arrangement.

I personally don't like to have the VP doing the audio switching. When the switching is done in the VP, you end up sending only one audio input to the Audio processor and it become an issue with audio tuning.

In my case all audio inputs are routed from the sources directly to the audio processor and by doing so, I could properly tune all inputs independently. This is a must considering that HD DVD player, DVD player and Cable Box don't use the same audio level at all and need to be adjusted independently.

I am trying to figure out a way to keep things easy for my wife, being able to leave my audio processor on one input seems like an easy solution. I suppose I could program macro's some how with a learning remote. But with the new TV my goal is to make it as easy as possible.

Well, I am going to take the plunge and buy the VP50. I just talked to the guys at DVDO and they tell me they have a software fix that is coming out this week that will finally put an end to all the audio issues. I triple confirmed with him and he said for sure it was coming and should resolve all these switching issues.

If not, I will be sending this VP50 back to whoever I buy it from.

... I just talked to the guys at DVDO and they tell me they have a software fix that is coming out this week that will finally put an end to all the audio issues. I triple confirmed with him and he said for sure it was coming and should resolve all these switching issues......

From what I understand this means the long anticipated firmware update is finally coming this week. This also means that we should get:
- PReP feature
- IR discrete code issue fix
- white stripe issue fix
- pass through feature (?)
this week.

Great news!
____
Axel

Just out of curiosity, if you do not route audio through the VP and only to your Anthem, what happens to SACD / DVDA and HD Dolby? Aren't these signals all required to be carried over HDMI unless they are converted to Analogue and then carried over the analogue six channel direct cables? For example, I know that the Oppo 970 will not carry SACD over the optical or coax cables.

I haven't played with the audio piece on my VP 50 yet. my AVR committed suicide the day the VP showed up, so I'm waiting for the replacement AVR and contemplating how to route the audio with this VP in the loop now.

This is the drawback of owning an audio processor that doesn’t have HDMI inputs. I am using coax for my HDA1, Cable box, and Oppo 970. To get true high rez audio such as HD Dolby, I added a full set of analogue cables out of the HDA1 to the AVM30.

Even if I was using the VP50 for audio switching, The situation would be the same since the VP50 doesn't have any audio decoding capability it cannot processes HDMI audio input and convert it to DTS on coax. At the end of the day to get high rez audio you still need to get the High Rez audio to your receiver or audio processor in either HDMI or analogues decoded from the player. In case the solution is not the switch via the VP50 but to transition to an audio processor with HDMI inputs such as the AVM40.

What kind of tuning are you referring to?? I'm curious as I have all the above boxes connected to my CII via HDMI and I send only a single fiber connection to my receiver (the HD-DVD is connected via analog to the receiver to get True-HD sound). I don't find any problems with the sound in this arrangement.

In fact the tuning go beyond that. It is per inputs / per format. The first item is the audio delay that could differ a little bit from source to source. Second the audio level vary significantly from one source to the other.

I am also using the analogue input of my AVM30 to get True-HD. Things will get more complicated since the next item in the pipeline is a Blu-Ray player. I have only one set of 7.1 analogues in on the AVM30.

In fact the tuning go beyond that. It is per inputs / per format. The first item is the audio delay that could differ a little bit from source to source. Second the audio level vary significantly from one source to the other.

I am also using the analogue input of my AVM30 to get True-HD. Things will get more complicated since the next item in the pipeline is a Blu-Ray player. I have only one set of 7.1 analogues in on the AVM30.
To be honest, while you're right about the level, I can't solve that on my amp anyway, but the vp50 does a good job of managing audio delay per-source, and that's the only reason I DO use it as an audio switch.

Of course, personally having no High Def audio sources at this point kind of helps my decision. The lack of a 2nd HDMI output is going to be a noticeable gap at some point in the future as far as using it as an audio switch is concerned. vp70 anyone?

I am trying to figure out a way to keep things easy for my wife, being able to leave my audio processor on one input seems like an easy solution. I suppose I could program macro's some how with a learning remote. But with the new TV my goal is to make it as easy as possible.

I had the same problem and resolve it using a Harmony 880. It took only 1 hr to learn the programming software and program the set-up. Now, my 7 year old is power up the full system and change activity easily.

Well, I am going to take the plunge and buy the VP50. I just talked to the guys at DVDO and they tell me they have a software fix that is coming out this week that will finally put an end to all the audio issues. I triple confirmed with him and he said for sure it was coming and should resolve all these switching issues.

If not, I will be sending this VP50 back to whoever I buy it from.

This is an excellent news.

This is the drawback of owning an audio processor that doesn’t have HDMI inputs. I am using coax for my HDA1, Cable box, and Oppo 970. To get true high rez audio such as HD Dolby, I added a full set of analogue cables out of the HDA1 to the AVM30.

Even if I was using the VP50 for audio switching, The situation would be the same since the VP50 doesn't have any audio decoding capability it cannot processes HDMI audio input and convert it to DTS on coax. At the end of the day to get high rez audio you still need to get the High Rez audio to your receiver or audio processor in either HDMI or analogues decoded from the player. In case the solution is not the switch via the VP50 but to transition to an audio processor with HDMI inputs such as the AVM40.


Is there such an animal available that would act as a HDMI splitter? One HDMI output into two so that one could go to the display and the other to the audio processor? My AVR in route will have two HDMI inputs, but I'm leery of sending the video stream to it before the VP. The AVR also has video processing and I don't want it messing with it. (short version of long story is it is a warranty exchange receiver to replace one that isn't made anymore, and not what I'd buy today).

There are... I believe Gefen makes one for instance.

its easier than you think ;) :

HDMI splitter cable

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10422&cs_id=1042203&p_id=2522&seq=1&format=2&style=

http://images.monoprice.com/productlargeimages/25221.jpg

does not work in reverse like all those knuckleheads were trying in the mono feedback section :rolleyes:

-Gary

Gary, doesn't that mess with HDCP though?

I wonder about that too since the source device will see two different sink devices. If it works though that's a handy little piece of cable.

that would be a great solution if it doesn't degrade the signal any or cause other problems.

Seeing how I need to set up my inputs to the VP differently, I can't run them through the AVR first, even if I wanted to.

Who's going to be the guinea pig and give it a try and report back??

The HDMI cable is required by specs to carry 5 volts at 55 ma along it voltage bus. Source devices send up to 5 volts at 50ma. If two downsteam sides (the sinks) require say 40 ma each, the source could burn out.

The HDMI cable is required by specs to carry 5 volts at 55 ma along it voltage bus. Source devices send up to 5 volts at 50ma. If two downsteam sides (the sinks) require say 40 ma each, the source could burn out.Burn out is a bit melodramatic - not enough energy at those voltages and currents and moreover, the ouputs are usually self limiting. More like you will get either no signal on both devices (through not enough voltage being able to be developed due to excessive current load from the 2 devices) or intermittant operation if the total load is just above the maximum. Being a simple cable splitter, I guess if just one of the devices provides a handshake, the transmitter would be happy. With 2 providing a handshake, things could get interesting :confused: .

I had the same problem and resolve it using a Harmony 880. It took only 1 hr to learn the programming software and program the set-up. Now, my 7 year old is power up the full system and change activity easily.

Question--did you program your Harmony to turn your VP50 on or off, or did you customize your settings to just always leave the VP50 on?

The reason back is a few pages back I reported getting a "Serious Error 12" on my VP50 and the unit locking up with the LED solid blue. I had to do a hard reset to clear it.

Then, I had a few times where switching video sources with the Harmony (from digital cable to DVD or vice versa), I would sometimes get a blank screen on the TV with the audio being just fine. I ended up having to cycle power on the VP50 with its remote until it would give me a picture again.

Besides posting the "Serious Error 12" here, I reported that and the blank screens coming up to DVDO via e-mail and Aaron there has been very responsive and helpful.

First thing, "Serious Error 12," according to Aaron, usually refers to some problem with HDMI inputs 1 or 2. I was only using HDMI input 4, but I've not seen this error since (with fingers really crossed).

Aaron was ready to have me ship back my VP50 to him for testing but I wanted to play around a bit with the Harmony programming first when someone brought it up here in passing (and while I appreciated Aaron's offer I didn't really want to ship the VP50 back until after Thanksgiving with all the company that we coming over and all the football games on).

I now conjecture that my blank screen issue has more to do with my Harmony 880 and not the VP50. I reprogramed my Harmony to always assume the VP50 was always on (Aaron said leaving the VP50 in the "on state" was okay) and only use the 880 to change inputs on the VP50 (SD for DVD and HDMI4 for digital cable). Since then (with fingers crossed), I haven't had a blank screen pop up on my TV when changing inputs back and forth. And I've tried a few times to duplicate the issue. (Based on this 880 testing and reprogramming and comparing notes, Aaron believes I may not have a VP50 hardware issue but to keep him informed if something changes.)

Since I've also seen a few times when commands from the Harmony 880 to my Arcam AVR300 gets dropped or missed (i.e., selecting listening to AM or FM radio or playing a DVD with the 880, the input sometimes is "skipped" so the receiver's input does not change but stays to what it was last on) so I'm now assuming my initial 880 programming or my 880 is sometimes "flakey" or it may be a spurious 880 command sequencing issue or it may be a proximity thing (my Arcam is in the corner and I'm not always "head on" when using the 880 with it).

Not to knock the 880--I love it. Just something I thought may have been the VP50 MAY be related instead to the Harmony (or the user of it).



- Gerry

Escon. Just the symptoms I'd like to experience with a splitter. Great if it works sometimes. Roll the dice. I TRULY DISLIKE ANY AND ALL HDMI. HDMI and HELL BOTH START WITH THE SAME LETTER. Bring on HDMI 2.0. Its presently under developement and should be released just about the time the industry has geared up for 1.3.

iScan VP50 1.01 Software is available as of now!

Beta Release 1.01 of our iScan VP50 software contains the following new features:

PReP™ (Progressive Re-Processing)

PReP is a video processing technology, which is exclusive to Anchor Bay, that converts a progressive signal to its original interlaced format so that it can be subsequently deinterlaced by Anchor Bay's Precision Deinterlacing. With PReP, in addition to performing an outstanding job deinterlacing interlaced formats, an iScan VP50 can now improve a previously poorly deinterlaced progressive format. PReP works with 480p, 576p, 1080p/50 and 1080p/60.

This software version also addresses and corrects the following bugs:

Fixed intermittent audio drop-outs due to sources with high-jitter (completely new audio logic).

Added HDMI Output Audio Mute routine to avoid “pops” and noise bursts while audio format is being determined.

Changed HDMI output configuration routine to remove potential of audio output lock-up in the HDMI transmitter under certain conditions.

Fixed failure of Discrete IR commands

Fixed Line-Offset error after switching from High-def Component video (720p or 1080i) to HDMI input (480i-60Hz or 576i-50Hz).

Corrected Info-Screen “No Signal” message when audio input is Analog, and “Unknown” message when audio over HDMI is compressed audio (will now display “Non-PCM”).

Corrected 1080p-24Hz output timings.

Version 1.01 is available here: http://www.dvdo.com/update/update-vp.php

Please note that it will take about 45 minutes to update your iScan VP50.

GerryWaz, you may need to adjust the amount and speed of the commands sent by the 880. The link below outlines the procedure for changing the response time of the device in question. In the same troubleshooting section there are menus for adjusting other aspects of the Harmony in how it reacts with a device.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8550910&highlight=harmony#post8550910
TiVo Series 3 - "Official" Thread - AVS Forum

Awesome Josh! :D

Can't wait to get home and try PReP

I agree with Mark. Who ever came up with HDMI should be tared and feathered.
What a mess. The consumer spends his hard earned money on something and innocently becomes the beta tester for this crap that leaves him with something that does not work. Im sure its an expensive mess for the manufactures as well.

GerryWaz, you may need to adjust the amount and speed of the commands sent by the 880. The link below outlines the procedure for changing the response time of the device in question. In the same troubleshooting section there are menus for adjusting other aspects of the Harmony in how it reacts with a device.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8550910&highlight=harmony#post8550910
TiVo Series 3 - "Official" Thread - AVS Forum

Will check it out. THANKS!!!

- Gerry

Question--did you program your Harmony to turn your VP50 on or off, or did you customize your settings to just always leave the VP50 on?

i have my harmony set to turn the VP50 on and off and have no issues.

Since I've also seen a few times when commands from the Harmony 880 to my Arcam AVR300 gets dropped or missed (i.e., selecting listening to AM or FM radio or playing a DVD with the 880, the input sometimes is "skipped" so the receiver's input does not change but stays to what it was last on) so I'm now assuming my initial 880 programming or my 880 is sometimes "flakey" or it may be a spurious 880 command sequencing issue or it may be a proximity thing (my Arcam is in the corner and I'm not always "head on" when using the 880 with it).

i too had issues with commands being skipped with my Harmony 890, after switching in to use RF extender all is fine, haven't had any issues since...i guess sometimes it was just missing a device with the IR...perhaps that is the issue for you?

I agree with Mark. Who ever came up with HDMI should be tared and feathered.
What a mess. The consumer spends his hard earned money on something and innocently becomes the beta tester for this crap that leaves him with something that does not work. Im sure its an expensive mess for the manufactures as well.
It is a mess, and a huge part of the blame falls right into Silicon Image's lap. If they had instituted a much tighter quality control over features and the actual physical implementation/installation in CE devices we would probably not have as much trouble with HDMI. DVI never seemed to have these sorts of problems, granted, it''s not as complex as HDMI, but that's really the point, the complexity and the various flavors, of even the same HDMI spec, being let loose in the wild has created quite a mess.

iScan VP50 1.01 Software is available as of now!

Beta Release 1.01 of our iScan VP50 software contains the following new features:

This software version also addresses and corrects the following bugs:

Fixed intermittent audio drop-outs due to sources with high-jitter (completely new audio logic).

Added HDMI Output Audio Mute routine to avoid “pops” and noise bursts while audio format is being determined.

Changed HDMI output configuration routine to remove potential of audio output lock-up in the HDMI transmitter under certain conditions.

Fixed failure of Discrete IR commands

Fixed Line-Offset error after switching from High-def Component video (720p or 1080i) to HDMI input (480i-60Hz or 576i-50Hz).

Corrected Info-Screen “No Signal” message when audio input is Analog, and “Unknown” message when audio over HDMI is compressed audio (will now display “Non-PCM”).

Corrected 1080p-24Hz output timings.

Version 1.01 is available here: http://www.dvdo.com/update/update-vp.php

Please note that it will take about 45 minutes to update your iScan VP50.
A very comprehensive list of fixes Josh. Good work. Audio and the very occassional video black out are the only issue affecting me, but do I understand from this list that people who have stripe issues are still left out? Is this problem only fixable through a hardware exchange?

i have my harmony set to turn the VP50 on and off and have no issues.



i too had issues with commands being skipped with my Harmony 890, after switching in to use RF extender all is fine, haven't had any issues since...i guess sometimes it was just missing a device with the IR...perhaps that is the issue for you?
With the Harmony you can change the amount of repetitions and the speed at which those commands are sent to tailor it to the device. Some devices can handle rapid sequences and multiple repeats of the command and some prefer a slower speed with less repetition.

The web site can be a little counterintuitive depending on what you're trying to achieve. For example, in the the above screen caps it appears I was trying to slow down the speed of the commands, when in fact, I was trying to speed up the responsiveness of the device. Harmony customer service is also excellent with both email and phone, I was talked through the above procedure over the phone and they even stayed on the phone while I checked it a few different ways. Good product, good company.

I am trying to figure out a way to keep things easy for my wife, being able to leave my audio processor on one input seems like an easy solution. I suppose I could program macro's some how with a learning remote. But with the new TV my goal is to make it as easy as possible.

Tolstoi was giving you the correct advice.

Fix or No Fix - AVR's do Audio and Video Processors do video. Mixing technologies is
always a loosing proposition. One or the other does the wrong thing. It is not their
area of expertise.

As for keeping it simple for your wife. - Make an investment is a GOOD REMOTE
control and I don't mean some best buy learning remote. I have so much
equipment to control it takes a MINIMUM of 10+ remotes. Yet anyone can
control my theater with absolutely NO TRAINING. It is all smartly programmed
into the touch screen remote with idiot proof graphics. That is the secret to
making it simple and not burdening audio or video equipment manufactures
to solve your making it simple problem. Playing with a DVDO remote is not
something you want to put in the hands of your wife. It is made for setup
and configuration use ONLY.

Tolstoi was giving you the correct advice.

Fix or No Fix - AVR's do Audio and Video Processors do video. Mixing technologies is always a loosing proposition. One or the other does the wrong thing. It is not their area of expertise.
Thay may well apply to the top-of-the-line AVRs, but more humble/older AVRs have limited scope in adjusting the audio parameters on a per input basis. Very few can adjust audio delay and audio level on a per input basis for example. Also, having a limited number of Coax or Opto inputs is very often a constraining factor. So, no, please don't discourage DVDO in providing audio routing - adding a level control (in addition to the existing delay adjustment) on a per-input basis would be a nice addtion to make it just about perfect. I would like to see MORE audio inputs in fact, although I agree that with proper audio HDMI, the need for more is less of an issue than it was prior to the VP30/50.

Thay may well apply to the top-of-the-line AVRs, but more humble/older AVRs have limited scope in adjusting the audio parameters on a per input basis. Very few can adjust audio delay and audio level on a per input basis for example.

My AVR is 10 years old and does all that.

i have my harmony set to turn the VP50 on and off and have no issues.



i too had issues with commands being skipped with my Harmony 890, after switching in to use RF extender all is fine, haven't had any issues since...i guess sometimes it was just missing a device with the IR...perhaps that is the issue for you?Just be aware that there is currently a bug in the 890 extender unit/FW in that you cannot select more than 8 devices to be controlled by it. The ninth+ device has to be set to be controlled by IR only. The bug manifests itself in that it refuses to turn OFF your all of the devices for any particular activity.

In my case, I got around this bug by not having it control my display at all (it's always set to the same input) and letting it power down itself after loss of input signal. This way I was able to keep the total number of devices down to 8 with which it has no problems. It took quite some time for Harmony and myself to get to the bottom of this one, but, to their credit, we did eventually solve it.

Tolstoi was giving you the correct advice.


As for keeping it simple for your wife. - Make an investment is a GOOD REMOTE
control and I don't mean some best buy learning remote. I have so much
equipment to control it takes a MINIMUM of 10+ remotes. Yet anyone can
control my theater with absolutely NO TRAINING. It is all smartly programmed
into the touch screen remote with idiot proof graphics. That is the secret to
making it simple and not burdening audio or video equipment manufactures
to solve your making it simple problem. Playing with a DVDO remote is not
something you want to put in the hands of your wife. It is made for setup
and configuration use ONLY.


What remote are you using right now? I have messed around with the Pronto's in the past an djust found them too complicated to setup and use.

What remote are you using right now? I have messed around with the Pronto's in the past an djust found them too complicated to setup and use.

Pronto is a Great Remote. I have two theaters that use an iPronto and a
Pronto Next Gen - TSU7000.

I find them so easy to program versus my Crestron Systems which I use
for my High-End Theaters.

I think the Pronto family is easier to program than even some of the just
simple learning remotes.

The iPronto - no longer made - gives you ALMOST all the capabilities of my
Crestron Systems at 1/10 the cost. You even get on screen TV GUIDE with
the iPronto.

My AVR is 10 years old and does all that.Obviously in a different league from my Yamaha RX-V540, although only 5 years old. :)

VP50's first FW upgrade....SWEET, DVDO!

iScan VP50 1.01 Software is available as of now!

Beta Release 1.01 of our iScan VP50 software contains the following new features:

PReP™ (Progressive Re-Processing)

PReP is a video processing technology, which is exclusive to Anchor Bay, that converts a progressive signal to its original interlaced format so that it can be subsequently deinterlaced by Anchor Bay's Precision Deinterlacing. With PReP, in addition to performing an outstanding job deinterlacing interlaced formats, an iScan VP50 can now improve a previously poorly deinterlaced progressive format. PReP works with 480p, 576p, 1080p/50 and 1080p/60.

This software version also addresses and corrects the following bugs:

Fixed intermittent audio drop-outs due to sources with high-jitter (completely new audio logic).

Added HDMI Output Audio Mute routine to avoid “pops” and noise bursts while audio format is being determined.

Changed HDMI output configuration routine to remove potential of audio output lock-up in the HDMI transmitter under certain conditions.

Fixed failure of Discrete IR commands

Fixed Line-Offset error after switching from High-def Component video (720p or 1080i) to HDMI input (480i-60Hz or 576i-50Hz).

Corrected Info-Screen “No Signal” message when audio input is Analog, and “Unknown” message when audio over HDMI is compressed audio (will now display “Non-PCM”).

Corrected 1080p-24Hz output timings.

Version 1.01 is available here: http://www.dvdo.com/update/update-vp.php

Please note that it will take about 45 minutes to update your iScan VP50.


Very cool Josh. Congrats and hope this settles the "video is great but...." issue that some seem to have. Can't wait to get back from Montreal and give this a go. Quick question though about PreP, no 720p/60?

Pronto is a Great Remote. I have two theaters that use an iPronto and a
Pronto Next Gen - TSU7000.

I find them so easy to program versus my Crestron Systems which I use
for my High-End Theaters.

I think the Pronto family is easier to program than even some of the just
simple learning remotes.

The iPronto - no longer made - gives you ALMOST all the capabilities of my
Crestron Systems at 1/10 the cost. You even get on screen TV GUIDE with
the iPronto.

Just as a counter voice, I've gone through a couple of Pronto's, and then tried a Harmony.

I've never looked back, and my wife never complains.

If something does get out of sync, she knows to hit the "help" button and it walks her through getting the right things on/off/configured. There is no programing, just go to the web site, describe your configuration, and it sets things up properly. Swapping out a device for a new device (TV, sat box, dvd player, etc.) is a couple of minutes, not the hour or two it used to take with the Pronto.

eric

Wow! 45 minutes?! I guess I'll wait until the final version. V1.00 works great for me now so I can afford to wait for the final version instead of using the beta.

has anyone installed 1.01 yet? all good???

Quick question though about PreP, no 720p/60?

The reason that PReP does not work with 720p-60 is that there is no 720i-60 format

makes sense... so anyone tried 1.01 yet?

makes sense... so anyone tried 1.01 yet?


I tried but I got loading error .... will try again late tonight .....

makes sense... so anyone tried 1.01 yet?

Seeing as you lazy dudes haven't managed it yet I've just kicked off the 1.01 update, will let you know in a hour. :rolleyes:

Stuck at home waiting for a 1080p TV to arrive anyway.

what 1080p TV are you getting?? curious ....

The reason that PReP does not work with 720p-60 is that there is no 720i-60 formatHmm.. interesting. I have a case where I have an HD media player which I've set up to be 1024 x 1280 (DVI, hence of course progressive.) Brilliant results for 720p/1080i stuff, but when I play an SD DVD through it, it of course de-interlaces it and then scales it to my set output res. Thus, whilst I have an already de-interlaced signal, it could benefit from PreP. Naturally, I could change the output setting when playing SD DVDs to 1080i (but NOT 576i) through the DVI port, but that certainly yields a much inferior signal. Naturally, playing a 720p avi file (on DVD or streamimg from server) is fine as the original source is truly progressive. Am I missing something here about Prep?

has anyone installed 1.01 yet? all good???

Yes all good. But I can't really tell a difference, maybe a very little smoother at times and I was using superbit DVDs from the Toshiba A1 at 480p for sddvd. I toggled many times, on off on off on off. How do I know if it is doing the PReP, coz it just shows PReP-On or Off and no wow! improvement. I was expecting night and day, but bummer. :( Is the Ruby's internal processing kicking in also?

I was much more impressed with a $100+ Onkyo 480i over HDMI through the VP50 to the $20K+ Meridian D-ILA which have no internal processing. I would luv to have this but too much money.

Any suggestions on other DVD players for cheap, less than $200 that will blow the A1 using PReP on the Ruby. I'd like to hear what others are using and getting a better picture than the Toshiba A1 as I'm not satisfied with the picture. Cheers.

what 1080p TV are you getting?? curious ....

Just one of the new Sharp 1080p LCDs, they don't appear to be on the 'down under' website yet so I'm not sure what your equivalent model would be (only the panels seem to be common across the regional versions (37, 42, 46 & 52" 1080p, upto 2000:1 contrast, 4-6ms response and 3-4 wavelength backlight).

How the PReP compare to SDI ?

Hmm.. interesting. I have a case where I have an HD media player which I've set up to be 1024 x 1280 (DVI, hence of course progressive.) Brilliant results for 720p/1080i stuff, but when I play an SD DVD through it, it of course de-interlaces it and then scales it to my set output res. Thus, whilst I have an already de-interlaced signal, it could benefit from PreP. Naturally, I change the output setting when playing SD DVDs to 1080i (but NOT 576i) through the DVI port, but that certainly yields a much inferior signal. Naturally, playing a 720p avi file (on DVD or streamimg from server) is fine as the original source is truly progressive. Am I missing something here about Prep?

Prep is only designed to re-interlace a signal which has only been deinterlaced. Not to unscale a scaled signal and then re-interlace it, once you've scaled a signal you can't really get back the original frames (except maybe a simple 2x2 scale).

Try 480p/576p out of the media player for SD content (that's what I'll be trying on my MediaBox HD).

How the PReP compare to SDI ?
PReP "only" undoes bad deinterlacing. It does not undo any other video processing done in the source device like pixel cropping, bad noise reduction, bad sharpening, color space conversions, color "corrections" etc. In contrast SDI takes the video stream directly from the decoder, before the source device can do *any* harm to it. So SDI should still be better. Only marginally so in some cases, noticably so in other cases, depending on how much harm the source device does to the video stream.

Prep is only designed to re-interlace a signal which has only been deinterlaced. Not to unscale a scaled signal and then re-interlace it, once you've scaled a signal you can't really get back the original frames (except maybe a simple 2x2 scale).

Try 480p/576p out of the media player for SD content (that's what I'll be trying on my MediaBox HD).Thanks Ailean - thought as much. Just tried setting the output to 576p, but I loose so much on 720p/1081i stuff of course, that's its a dumb move. And, after all, I have an Oppo 971H with SDI so I really have no need to play SD DVDs through it.

I have an open bug with DVDO where 1080i into the BNC inputs doesn't work properly - you can't output it at 852*480. This and some other BNC bugs were due to be fixed in 1.01, but at least the output problem is just the same. grrrrrrrrrr.

Okay, so far 1.01 seems stable but I have to agree with Philip I can't see a vast difference with Prep.

I've only tried some SD SkyHD box daytime TV channels so not the best test. The 576p output from this box on HDMI is okay most of the time but does get a bit messed up with some content.

Not really expert enough to figure out what best to try but I'll have a play with some DVD film ISO images that are on the MediaBox later (both PAL and NTSC).

For the audio side it'll take sitting down with a DVD and watching a whole film or two to see if it helps with dropouts, probably wait till the new TV is setup for that so I can soak test it too. ;)

has anyone installed 1.01 yet? all good???

I installed it with no problems, but I'm a veteran DVDO updater so I know all the gotchas.

It really does take almost 45 minutes even at a 56K serial rate. (I clocked it in at around 40 minutes of uploading time). Also, your settings are NOT saved contrary to the rumors.

My discrete aspect ratio codes from the VP30 suddenly started working again! Some folks reported success with the VP30 codes on the VP50, but they never worked for me until now. The release notes also claim they fixed the "stop responding to discretes" bug. Let's hope that's true. That bug has been a serious annoyance for myself and particularly the wife who has never mastered the sequence of universal remote incantations needed to switch aspect ratios through the VP50 menu.

I have not yet rewired my system to retry the audio routing, but it sounds like they understand the brief audio dropout issue. PLL clock regeneration is tricky and edge cases with jittery sources makes total sense as the root cause. On the other hand it's not clear that they fixed the complete loss of Dolby Digital issues myself and others have seen with TiVos. It sounds like a rewrite of the audio code so perhaps this is fixed too. I'll give it a go soon.

The other major addition is PReP. I gave PReP a go on the HD DirecTiVo which can be easily flipped into 480p mode and has a really lousy deinterlacer. The difference between the 480i out and the 480p out is night and day. All sorts of jaggies and combing effects in 480p mode. With PReP enabled however the 480i and 480p were almost identical. I'd give a slight edge to the 480i output as there seemed to be the tinniest increase in softness around hard lines in the moving areas when using PReP. I imagine this is not caused by PReP but is some PQ destruction done by the TiVo that can't be recovered by PReP. PReP is disabled for 720p/1080i sources. It seems that a PReP that could recover an interlaced format that has also been scaled would be very useful. For instance recovering 1080i or 480i when it had been output as 720p by a STB. Maybe that just can't be done reliably. Anyway, I personally don't have a major use for PReP in my setup. I think most folks who invest in a scalar of this kind will try to seek out sources that pass the original interlaced sources, but I can see where PReP could be a lifesaver where native rate sources aren't available.

- Collin

Just one of the new Sharp 1080p LCDs, they don't appear to be on the 'down under' website yet so I'm not sure what your equivalent model would be (only the panels seem to be common across the regional versions (37, 42, 46 & 52" 1080p, upto 2000:1 contrast, 4-6ms response and 3-4 wavelength backlight).

Grrrr RANT RANT RANT!

They got the orders mixed up and mines not actually due till the end of the month, grrr.

Anyway, I'll try to test audio later when I've calmed down a bit from wasting a holiday. :mad:

What remote are you using right now? I have messed around with the Pronto's in the past an djust found them too complicated to setup and use.
I use a prontoPro NG (US model TSU7000 I think) and found it very easy to setup & use but ONLY because I borrowed someone else's config (who shared a couple of devices with me) as a starting point and worked it out from there. The software has improved a lot and is pretty intuitive now.

It's so far beyond the Harmony in terms of flexibility and power, there's simply no comparison. I've tried the Harmony 885 and the lack of control drove me nuts and it was always asking the same stupid questions on the help button & never learning from what I told it to resolve what it had screwed up.

Looking forward to checking out PreP on SkyHD HDMI later so I can finally lose the SCART->4 phonos & save one of those valuable analog inputs.

Also ordering an Oppo 970 for interlaced over HDMI though, so that'll be another analog input freed up.

Hmmm. Swimming in spare YUV inputs suddenly.

collinp,

the reason is that we (beta testers) got several interim revisions that did save the options between them, so it was impossible to know if the values are saved between 1.0 and 1.0.1

guys,

been beta testing the 1.0.1 release and I'm very pleased with it. I can't comment on the audio dropout fixes (not routing audio through the unit), but the new firmware is really excellent for me.

I still can't figure out the separate gamma functionality for RGB (why not have full 11 point calibration adjustment for each color, instead)?

Also, on PAL, there's still an overscan issue (the problem is in the source, but I need the ability to trim off the black lines asymetrically without losing data on each of the sides).

Discrete codes do work better and there's a definite feel that the unit is performing better. I only got one significant combing from 2:2 content (content sent to ABT for review).

Overall, I think they did a great job on this one. I hope the audio issues are behind us, and if so, that the VP30 folks get the fix soon too.

..... PReP is disabled for 720p/1080i sources. .....


Does PReP only work for 480p sources?

_____
Axel

Does PReP only work for 480p sources?

_____
Axel
PReP is a video processing technology, which is exclusive to Anchor Bay, that converts a progressive signal to its original interlaced format so that it can be subsequently deinterlaced by Anchor Bay's Precision Deinterlacing. With PReP, in addition to performing an outstanding job deinterlacing interlaced formats, an iScan VP50 can now improve a previously poorly deinterlaced progressive format. PReP works with 480p, 576p, 1080p/50 and 1080p/60.

I think the momentary audio drop outs are behind us. However you still might experience total audio loss over HDMI (coax/optical is stable) when using certain cable/satellite boxes. This is being addressed.

In addition I believe you can now get multichannel PCM over HDMI. This is of interest to HD DVD player owners.

Don

PReP is a video processing technology, which is exclusive to Anchor Bay, that converts a progressive signal to its original interlaced format so that it can be subsequently deinterlaced by Anchor Bay's Precision Deinterlacing. With PReP, in addition to performing an outstanding job deinterlacing interlaced formats, an iScan VP50 can now improve a previously poorly deinterlaced progressive format. PReP works with 480p, 576p, 1080p/50 and 1080p/60.


Thanks Joe;
I should have looked at DVDO's official announcement that Josh posted earlier a bit closer:).
Now, it does not list 720p. Does anybody know why that is?
____
Axel

There is no such thing as 720i therefore you can not re interlace 720P

You should have looked closer at his 2nd posting which was "there is no 720i format" ;)

so the only way you'll get 720p is either the source was 720p all along (in which case there's no point doing PrEP) or it's been deinterlaced & rescaled from something else to 720p in which case PrEP can't undo that anyway. You should stop the source doing any scaling in that case.

Reason I asked about the 720p is that I have been feeding the VP50 a 720p signal from my HTPC to up-convert to 1080p (for my Ruby). This is for DVDs. I found this to be the best setting PQ-wise and still gives me a decent readability of the player GUI (Theatertek) and XP desktop.
____
Axel

In theory, 480i ought to do a better job.

But even so, if 480i -> vp50 -> 1080p -> Ruby doesn't look as good as 720p -> vp50 ->1080p -> Ruby

then PrEP wouldn't do you any good anyway. It solves the image quality problems that a crappy deinterlacing stage prior to the vp50 causes. Which you don't have in the above scenario if you prefer what you get over 720p vs 480i.