This is the definitive spec sheet on the DVDO iScan VP50:

The iScan™ VP50 is a high-definition video processor and A/V hub that converts standard or high definition (including 1080p) from your HD-DVD player, Blu-ray Disc player, HD-DVR, game console, or PC to any output resolution between VGA and 1080p, including popular HDTV resolutions such as 720p and 1080i.

•VRS Precision Deinterlacing™ technology by Anchor Bay – 480i/576i/1080i 10-bit Motion, Edge & Source Adaptive Deinterlacer
o Five-field motion adaptive deinterlacing
o Edge adaptive processing to produce smooth diagonal edges
o Three frame video processing delay (Max)
o Game Modes with very low latency (sub-1 frame delay/2 frame delay with Edge adaptive processing)
• Arbitrary cadence detection (any:any) to detect non-standard cadences in input signals.
o Reliable 2:2 pull-down detection for 50Hz countries
o Detection of 2:2 to/from 3:2 crossfades and out of phase 3:2 crossfades
o Detection of multiple source types within a frame for example video titles over film
o Bad edit detection and compensation to minimize artifacts caused by sequence breaks in film content

•VRS Precision Video Scaling II™ - Anchor Bay's High perforance 10-bit Scaling technology

•PReP™ - Anchor Bay's unique Progressive ReProcessing technology which recovers the original interlace signals in standard 480p/576p and even 1080p signals so it can be processed by ABT’s Precision Deinterlacing technology.

• Progressive Cadence Detection of 480p, 576p, 720p and 1080p input signals to allow source-locked framerate output of film-based content (24/48/72Hz)

•Anchor Bays Rightrate™ – High-Performance TearlessFramerate Conversion which enables 24/48/72Hz or 25/50/75Hz output of film-based content. Outputs include 1080p-24 and 1080p-48.

•Anchor Bay’s Precision Gamma Correction™ - Individual R/G/B Adjustments
•Anchor Bay’s Precision A/V Lipsync™ - Intelligent digital audio delay technology to match Audio and Video timing
•Anchor Bay’s AutoVFR™ – Intelligent Component Video Inputs with Automatic Video Format Routing
•Anchor Bay’s AutoCUE-C™ – Automatic Chroma Upsampling Error detection and correction

• 4 HDMI Inputs which process 480i/p, 576i/p, 720p-50/60, 1080i-50/60, 1080p-24/25/50/60, qnd VGA-SXGA@60Hz signals
• Analog HD Transcoding and Processing


Input Aspect Ratio Controls
•Presets: 4:3 full frame, 4:3 letterbox, Panorama (non-linear stretch), 16:9 full frame or user-defined aspect ratio (10)
•Flexible Horizontal and Vertical Zooming & Panning controls
•Overscan Adjustment per input

Output Aspect Ratio Controls
•Presets: 4:3, 16:9, 2.35:1 or custom output aspect ratio
•Separate Display/Screen Adjustments
•Underscan Adjustment to eliminate Overscan inherent in a display

10 User-Defined 'Display Profiles' – For multiple display, framerate, and image shift configurations (10)

•10-bit 300MHz Instrumentation Quality DACs (2x Oversampling for 1080p)
•Full-frame Timebase Correction
•High performance, multi-standard video decoder (10-bit: 480i/576i; 12-bit: 480p/576p/720p/1080i)
•High-quality super-adaptive comb filter with 2D Y/C separation
•Flexible Digital and Analog Audio switching and routing – 4 HDMI audio/video inputs, 5 assignable audio inputs (4 digital, 1 analog) with 1 HDMI audio/video output and 2 active digital audio outputs.
•Software Upgradeable

• Predefined output resolutions for Plasma, DLP, LCD, LCOS, and CRT-based displays:
480p (720x480)
576p (720x576)
720p (1280x720)
1080i (1920x1080)
1080p (1920x1080)
VGA (640x480)
SVGA (800x600)
XGA (1024x768)
SXGA (1280x1024)
848x600
852x480
1024x576
1024x1024 (ALIS)
1280x768
1280x960
1365x1024
1366x768
1365x768
1400x788
1400x1050
1440x960
1440x1152
• User customizeable output resolution from 480p (720x480) to 1080p (1920x1080)

Technical Specifications

Inputs
Twelve Video Inputs Available
• Two Composite (NTSC/PAL/SECAM)
• Two S-Video (NTSC/PAL/SECAM)
• Two Component (YPbPr or RGB/S) processes 480i/p, 576i/p, 720p, 1080i
• One RGBHV/Component (BNC-style connectors) processes 480p, 576p, 720p, 1080i, VGA/SVGA/XGA/SXGA@60Hz
• Four HDMI processes 480i/p, 576 i/p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p-50/60, VGA/SVGA/XGA/SXGA@60Hz
• One Optional SD-SDI (Serial Digital Interface) processes 480i/576i
Nine Audio Inputs
• Four HDMI (HDMI v1.2)
• Two Coaxial Digital
• Two Optical Digital
• One Analog Pair (L/R)

Outputs
One Analog Video Output
• Using High Quality BNC-style connectors
• Configurable for YPbPr, RGBHV, RGB/S, or RGB
One Digital Audio/Video Output
• Using HDMI (High Definition Multimedia Interface) connector
• Configurable for YCbCr or RGB
• Also carries audio (HDMI v1.1)
Two Digital Audio Outputs
• One Coaxial Digital
• One Optical Digital

Controls
Front Panel
• Infrared remote control with direct access codes or manual controls on front panel
• Functions accessible via either On Screen Display (OSD) or 2 line, 20 character front-panel LED display
• RS232 port for software downloads and automation.
• Fully programmable controls for each separate video input with non-volatile memories:
- Automatic input source detection & input priority selection
- Picture controls with memory for each input: Brightness, Contrast, Saturation, Hue, Y/C Delay, Sharpness
• Output Controls: Analog/Digital, Format/Resolution, Aspect Ratio, Sync Type, Colorspace (RGB or YPbPr),
Frame Lock, Display Profiles (10)
• 35 Built-in test patterns for ease of set up

Power
• Universal AC mains input: 100 – 240 VAC @ 50-60 Hz
• Consumption <45W
• Sleep Mode – automatic 30 second timeout indicated by power indicator color change

Physical Dimensions
• 10.4”x17”x2.2” (26.3cmx43.4cmx5.5cm) with feet
• 10.4”x17”x1.8” (26.3cmx43.4cmx4.6cm) without feet

Available Accessories
• Rack Mount Kit
• SD-SDI Input Module
• Silver Front Bezel
• USB-to-Serial Adapter

FAQs:

Q: What are these 'Game Modes' ?
A: These modes can reduce the amount of video delay to less than a single frame. In many competitive processors the effects of applying complex algorithms to the video image results in upwards of a seven frame delay. This can inhibit the real-time performance for gamers who want instantaneous response to react to stimuli and to realize peak performance from their application. The VRS Precision Deinterlacing™ Game Modes will reduce frame delay down to slightly less than one frame of video.


Q: What comes on the 'VRS DVD' that ships with the VP50?
A: The DVD that comes with the VP50 includes many test patterns to assist the you in optimizing the setup and to evaluate the performance of your iScan VP50 (or any other video processing). This DVD was produced by Stacey Spears and Don Munsil (S&M) and I strongly believe that this will be the Reference DVD that everyone uses to compare video processing from now on.

The Static Patterns include:
Picture Controls (Brightness/Contrast, Color/Tint, Y/C Delay, and Resolution)
Geometry (Frame Geometry, Image Cropping, Cross Hatch - Coarse, Cross Hatch - Fine, and Focus)
Gray Scale (10IRE - 100IRE Windows and Gray Ramp)
Half Patterns (Black/White, Color 7 Bars 75, Color (7) Bars 100, Color (8) Bars 75 and Color (8) Bars 100 - These are the 'other half' of the test patterns which are built into the iScan VP50)

The Motion Patterns include:
Chroma Upsampling (ICP, 2-2, and 2-3)
Source Adaptive (Film, Film Detail, and Synthetic Wedge - Each test patterns has 2-2, 2-2-2-4, 2-3-2-3, 2-3-3-2-2, 2-3-3-2, 3-2-3-2-2, 3-3, 4-4, 5-5, 6-4, 8-7-8-7 cadences as well as a sped up cadence and bad-edits)
Edge Adaptive (Jaggies at 45/20/10 degress, Jaggies at all degrees, Video sequences which have very difficult diagonals: 'Ropes', "Ship' , 'Hockey', and Bridge')
Mixed Mode (Horizontal Text and Vertical Text)
Montage

There is also a Demo Loop which goes through all of the deinterlacing evaluation content.

The Source Adaptive 'Film' and 'Film Detail' content should be familiar to everyone, they are the infamous Cafe scene (ever wonder what happens after the bum gets the newspaper?) and Super Speedway, respectively.

Q: Can I purchase an iScan VP50 with the SDI input module installed.
A: At this point, this card is purely a user/dealer-installable upgrades. Both are very easy to do and the installation of either will not void your warranty.

Q: Does the iScan VP50 use the same SDI input module or rack mounts as the iScan HD, HD+, VP20 and VP30?
A: Yes, the iScan VP50 uses exactly the same input module and rack mounts.

Q: Can the iScan VP50 take an HDMI input signal and output that same signal over the analog outputs?
A: If the input signal has HDCP (High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection) legally we must turn off the analog outputs. If the input signal does not have HDCP, then the iScan VP50 CAN output this signal as an analog signal (either RGB or component) at any resolution between VGA and 1080p.

Q: What features does the VP50 have, which the iScan VP20/VP30 do not have?
A: • Precision Video Deinterlacing™ by Anchor Bay for SD (480i/576i) and HD (1080i) VP20/VP30 use the SiI504 for SD deinterlacing and both are upgradeable to the ABT102 (Precision Deinterlacing Card).
• Progressive Cadence Detection of 480p, 576p, 720p and 1080p input signals to allow source-locked framerate output of film-based content (24/48/72Hz)
• PReP™, Progressive ReProcessing of 480p, 576p and 1080p signals
• HDMI Inputs can process up to 1080p
VP20/VP30 can process up to 720p/1080i
•The VP50 has Anchor Bay's Progressive ReProcessing (PReP) which allows the reinterlacing of an interlaced source whch is converted to progressive by the source. This allows Anchor Bay's high performance Precision Deinterlacing to dramatically improve the image that was previously processed by the source. This is particularly useful with cable and satellite set top boxes that do not output standard definition (480i/576i) at their native resolutions, they are deinterlaced to 480p or 576p. PReP can even be used with a 1080p source like a BD or HD-DVD player!


Q: If I connect an HDMI (audio/video) source to the iScan VP50 will I be able to get audio out via the optical/coaxial digital outputs?
A: In most cases the audio that is available on the HDMI connection will be available on the optical/coaxial audio outputs. Exceptions include MLP (DVD-Audio) and DSD (SACD) which SPDIF connections are incapable of carrying due to bandwidth limitations.

There will be an upgrade program and it should be on our web site early next week.

let this soon to be massive thread begin

-Gary

Josh - I think I know the answer to this, but just for the sake of clarity - does the VP50 include the same deinterlacing capabilities of the ABT102 and also apply these to 1080i?

On the upgrade front, please please don't forget about International customers. And, will there be a differential upgrade price for a VP30/ABT over a VP30?

And, is there going to be any chance to edit the EDID table - to force the SkyHD box to output 576i. And, is there going to be the previoulsy mentioned by Dale ability to de-bob bobbed input.

And, when can I have one?

Gamma (R/G/B and up to 1024 point Gamma individual RGB correction)

So now you will be able to get that perfect Gamma curve even if your display does not have the controls for it. Full 10 bit RGB output Look Up Table management. Guess we need to get busy in CalMAN to add support for this :)

Congrats to DVDO !

Here are some questions:

(1) Were you able to get along without a fan? If so, how much hotter does the VP50 get than the older VPs? Do we need to be extra careful where to place the VP50?

(2) Are the deinterlacing FPGA algorithms updatable through firmware updates, too (unlike the ABT102 in the VP30)?

(3) Is a HD-SDI input module technically possible? If yes, is it planned? If no, does the VP50 work together with the Key Digital "Digital Blaster"?

(4) Do the HDMI inputs support *any* resolution in - even unusual resolutions? I'm asking because clips you can download from the internet don't always come in standard resolutions. And when having a media player which is able to output the played content in exactly its native resolution over HDMI, it would be nice to have the VP50 to accept really *any* resolution in.

(5) The ABT homepage claims that there'd be noise reduction build into a DVDO device in 2006. Did you revise these plans? I was hoping that they'd make it into the VP50. Is there anything you can say about noise reduction?

(6) I guess the VP50 comes too early for HDMI 1.3? If so, it will probably not be able to handle e.g. Dolby Digital Plus signals coming through HDMI, right? (Probably not too much of a problem, since multi channel PCM can be used instead).

(7) Were you able to put any new algorithms into the deinterlacing FPGA? E.g. some way to reduce the 24fps motion judder? Or maybe some improved deinterlacing stuff like 1 pixel motion compensation or something crazy like that?

(8) Is the full processing path at >= 10bit now? Or are some parts still in 8bit?

(9) Can the VP50 detect cadence in 1080p60 film content and get rid of the duplicate frames to get a proper 1080p24/48/72 output?

(10) Can the VP50 reinterlace progressive sources to undo bad deinterlacing done by DVD players or STBs and re-deinterlace them properly? (Dale hinted something like that).

Sorry for asking so many question - and thanks very much for your reply in advance!! :)

(Edit: Added questions 9 + 10.)

Umm... just curious here (seriously), but what is the market for a $3000 external scaler when...

... with a 1080p source and a 1080p display, there is no scaling or deinterlacing to do... while I suppose probably most of the market for this is in projectors, wouldn't a more cost effective and higher quality solution be to get a 1080p projector?

... I'll be able to buy an AVR soon in the $2000 - $2500 range with a Realta HQV scaler that is equal or higher quality. That'll scale my video inputs all the way down to a VCR and switch audio and video at the same time to boot and serve as an amp, etc.

Just curious, cuz I thought the window for this type of product would be closing with 1080p... so wondering if there is any real advantage. Yeah, you can tweak this sucker more then an AVR, but seriously, do you really need to? :).

1) Does this processor support 1080/24PsF output, particularly for film based source material?

2) When do you expect to start shipping to customers?

3) Is it HDMI 1.1 or HDMI 1.2 compliant?

... with a 1080p source and a 1080p display, there is no scaling or deinterlacing to do...
What about HD broadcasting? That will still be done in 1080i for a long time to come.

... I'll be able to buy an AVR soon in the $2000 - $2500 range with a Realta HQV scaler that is equal or higher quality.
Are you so sure that the HQV is really equal or better? Some reports say the HQV is slightly better at SD, others say the ABT102 is slightly better. Also we don't know yet how they compare at HD. Furthermore a lot depends on how these chips are implemented. I've heard of different HQV products performing noticable different.

Just curious, cuz I thought the window for this type of product would be closing with 1080p... so wondering if there is any real advantage. Yeah, you can tweak this sucker more then an AVR, but seriously, do you really need to? :).
There's more to a video processor than deinterlacing. E.g. will the AVR offer timing controls to achieve 1:1 pixel mapping? How about gamma correction abilities? There are many reasons why buying an external video processor still makes sense. Also, usually video processor companies are much quicker in addressing problems and adding needed features than AVR companies.

First off thanks Josh for giving us some definitive specs at last and a head of cedia!! :cool:

Although this seems like only a minor upgrade on the VP30...


No HD-SDI, although I appreciate being able to reuse my SD-SDI module.
No change in basic input/output, a second HDMI out would have been nice.
No mention of filtering/mpeg noise features.


Just wondering if this is intended as a stop gap to give us the HD deinterlacing while you work on the next big step (maybe waiting for HDMI 1.3 chips and more testing of new ABT tech)?

Don't get me wrong, this seems like an excellent box and would pair well with the 'pearl' I'm considering and so long as the international trade-in is reasonable I'll certainly be considering it! ;)

Will there be expansion capabilities in the VP50 for future hardware enhancements?

...Oh and I hate to ask but how much of a codebase change is this from the VP30? Enough to finally sort out the audio drop outs I hope but not enough to introduce another 9 month+ issue.... :(

I was reading through that description thinking "hmm.. sounds like it's in the same box as the VP30".

Checked the DVDO website, and - sure enough - it is.

Woohoo! Upgrade possible without she who must be obeyed realising I've splashed out more dosh :D

Interesting, according to the datasheet they're including a USB to serial adapter in the box.

- Collin

Hai,

Good to see the new model, maybe i was close with my guess on vp20,30,40,50. Can we now expect a vp40 that is non-analog ?

a few q:

1) Anyway, like others i am wondering why you didn't add NR to the vp50 can you comment on that ? does the fpga have enough room to add that or is that for a next machine?.

2) What _many_ of us like is the fact that it doesn't seem to have a fan again is that correct ? with 30watts total usage seems a good heatsink should be enough.

3) upgrades, could you also have a upgrade price for the vp30 with or without the 102 card ? most of us will take the sdi card to the vp50 but the 102 card is a loss item then.

4) international upgrades at the same time as usa upgrades please. Atleast for the countries where a clear method is already in place (vp30/102 went very smooth).

Daniel.

...Oh and I hate to ask but how much of a codebase change is this from the VP30? Enough to finally sort out the audio drop outs I hope but not enough to introduce another 9 month+ issue.... :(

My guess is very little the codebase from the HD+ went to the vp30, we knew they are working on better gamma control / passthrough for the vp30 and that now seems to be added to the vp50. I am guessing they are taking the 1.10 release of the vp30 as a starting point the deinterlacing is lowlevel not many changes needed to the gui/control stuff if you ask me.

Daniel.

What ADCs and video decoder chips are you using? Still using the SAA71xx?

is AVS going to run some upgrade specials for AVS members, like the ABT102 card upgrade?? that would be great!

I don't understand a lot of the tech jargon. My bottom line is how is this box going to give me a better picture then the VP30?

I don't understand a lot of the tech jargon. My bottom line is how is this box going to give me a better picture then the VP30?

From what we know now you can expect better video from HD sources, you will also have a option to pass the signal (just switch) inside the vp50 and lastly you will have a much better control on calibration per display since it will have good gamma and color controls that you can use to counteract any offsets in your display.

Daniel.

Interesting, according to the datasheet they're including a USB to serial adapter in the box.

- Collin
Yep sounds like a good move support wise as I'm sure, based on what we see here, that a lot of calls/emails are about firmware update issues using random USB->serial adapters.

Hai,
2) What _many_ of us like is the fact that it doesn't seem to have a fan again is that correct ? with 30watts total usage seems a good heatsink should be enough.

3) upgrades, could you also have a upgrade price for the vp30 with or without the 102 card ? most of us will take the sdi card to the vp50 but the 102 card is a loss item then.

4) international upgrades at the same time as usa upgrades please. Atleast for the countries where a clear method is already in place (vp30/102 went very smooth).

Couldn't agree more with these 3 points.

I wonder what the trade in will be for the VP30 with the ABT102 card? Hopefully we can get in on a good deal between the trade in and an AVS buy. Of course I just had my yearly calibration done with the VP30 in the mix for the first time. I'll be looking forward to the VP50!

(6) I guess the VP50 comes too early for HDMI 1.3? If so, it will probably not be able to handle e.g. Dolby Digital Plus signals coming through HDMI, right? (Probably not too much of a problem, since multi channel PCM can be used instead).

This is something I'd like to ask as well. From what little I've read about HDMI 1.3, it will be a somewhat significant upgrade, as it will both mean support for the new HD surround sound formats, and also higher bitrates and more colors in the video section.

So I'd probably wait for a 1.3 videoprosessor.

But - from what madshi says above; is the 1.3 support of the new HD sound formats not really necessary? Will HDMI 1.1 be able to carry the signal over to a receiver anyway? And the HD sound compatible receiver will then decode the signal (as it is today with current formats)? If so - is the HD sound format support from 1.3 only worth it if you want the source to decode the sound? What am I not getting here?

is the 1.3 support of the new HD sound formats not really necessary? Will HDMI 1.1 be able to carry the signal over to a receiver anyway? And the HD sound compatible receiver will then decode the signal (as it is today with current formats)? If so - is the HD sound format support from 1.3 only worth it if you want the source to decode the sound? What am I not getting here?
It's the other way round: If the source decodes the sound, it can send it decoded as PCM multichannel over HDMI 1.1 and the audio processor should understand it (if it fully supports HDMI 1.1). You need HDMI 1.3 for audio only if you want to transport the new audio formats to the audio processor undecoded, so that the audio processor decodes them. That's not too important IMO, cause I believe all (or most) source devices will be able to do the decoding.

Having the receiver do the decoding is preferable. Hopefully I'll have one by this time next year that will decode the new codecs and have HDMi 1.3 along with a new HD DVD player with HDMI 1.3. In that setup I would still need to go to the receiver first then to the VP50 if it doesn't have HDMI 1.3.

I wonder how it will compare in HD deinterlacing to the HDQ. I also wonder if it is worth the extra 1,000 over the HDQ...

Josh,

Are you using the same chip/audio subsystem from the VP30, or has there been a replacement/redesign? Thanks.

eric

Why is decoding in the receiver preferable, I though with HD DVD at least the whole point is to do it in the player as this is where it is 'mixed'?

Josh - I think I know the answer to this, but just for the sake of clarity - does the VP50 include the same deinterlacing capabilities of the ABT102 and also apply these to 1080i?

Yes

And, will there be a differential upgrade price for a VP30/ABT over a VP30?

Yes, we should have complete details on the trade-in program early next week.

And, is there going to be any chance to edit the EDID table - to force the SkyHD box to output 576i.

This is a feature that we would like to add to the VP20, VP30 and VP50.

And, is there going to be the previoulsy mentioned by Dale ability to de-bob bobbed input.

The design of the VP50 allows all algorithms to be updated through the serial port.

And, when can I have one?
September (2006)

September (2006)

ahh the default avs 2 weeks shipping time !.... Sorry easy shot :)

Hope you can respond to the other questions as well.

Daniel.

Product comparison table said :

i/S HD Precision Deinterlacing™ (480i and 576i) for VP50

and

VRS SD Precision Deinterlacing™ (1080i) for VP50 and optional for VP20/VP30

I think it's a bug and we need to read :

i/S HD Precision Deinterlacing™ (1080i) for VP50

and

VRS SD Precision Deinterlacing™ (480i and 576i) for VP50 and optional for VP20/VP30


What i/S means ?

What i/S means ?

iScan

Umm... just curious here (seriously), but what is the market for a $3000 external scaler when...

... with a 1080p source and a 1080p display, there is no scaling or deinterlacing to do... while I suppose probably most of the market for this is in projectors, wouldn't a more cost effective and higher quality solution be to get a 1080p projector?

... I'll be able to buy an AVR soon in the $2000 - $2500 range with a Realta HQV scaler that is equal or higher quality. That'll scale my video inputs all the way down to a VCR and switch audio and video at the same time to boot and serve as an amp, etc.

Just curious, cuz I thought the window for this type of product would be closing with 1080p... so wondering if there is any real advantage. Yeah, you can tweak this sucker more then an AVR, but seriously, do you really need to? :).

I suppose if the person spending the $3,000 thinks it is worthwhile because they believe the processing to be better than HQV then it is probably worthwhile to that person. $3k isn't bad and seems in line with other outboard scalers....albeit I'd like to see some of the things Dale has been hinting about sooner than later. So lets hope DVDO keeps the firmware updates coming once I upgrade.

Great news! Legendary DVDO support coupled with true 1080p and ABT102 quality deinterlacing could make this an unbeatable product. I'm also glad to hear that it will transcode HDMI audio to SPDIF.

Great news! Legendary DVDO support coupled with true 1080p and ABT102 quality deinterlacing could make this an unbeatable product. I'm also glad to hear that it will transcode HDMI audio to SPDIF.

So, this is an other difference between VP50 and VP30 since VP30 faq said that :


If the incoming HDMI signal has HDCP, then the iScan VP30 can not output this audio using the optical or coaxial digital outputs, only the HDMI output.

So what's the benifit to 720p displays? I feed an 8720 sd dvd and sd/hd cable via a vp30/abt102.

Is this more for 1080p displays? I can't swing one just yet, my Benq is only 5 months old and I want to wait for the format battle to be over.

Jeremy

Can someone explain the differences in the way the VP50 processes the HD? From what I read this is one area where DVDO was a bit behind the curve.

Can someone explain the differences in the way the VP50 processes the HD? From what I read this is one area where DVDO was a bit behind the curve.

The VP50 appears to use the same motion adaptive (or what DVDO calls edge adaptive and source adaptive I believe) and 3:2 pulldown as the ABT102 card in the VP30. I'll likely upgrade because I want the latest greatest. But there is so much resolution (making deinterlacing artifacts much harder to see) in HDTV that I truly wonder if even half the people up here would know the difference if they saw true 1080i deinterlacing vs. field scaled 1080i.

Would VP50 convert 1080i to 1080p & then take it to native resolution? In that case I beleive it will make a difference even on 720p displays to some extent though maybe not as big of a difference as with 1080p displays. Hope noise reduction will be added as a firmware upgrade if not already included at the time of release.

I believe the benefit of the VP50 for 1080p and 720p displays depends on how good you think your display is at deinterlacing 1080i. Since broadcast HD is in 1080i (or 720p) and, unless I'm mistaken, current HDDVD and BluRay are also in 1080i then for the "ultimate" picture you'd want the best possible 1080i deinterlacing. If your display can do a good job then you may not find the need to get the VP50. If it doesn't, as is the case of my display, then you look for an outboard scaler. I also think the bigger the display the bigger the potential noticeable difference.

Unfortunately, unless the trade in is HUGE for the VP30 w/abt, the Vp50 is encroaching upon pricing territorities that I'm just uncomfortable with. After buying the iScan HD, VP30, and the abt daughter card on preorders sight unseen, I think I'm going to wait to see just how much better the VP 50 is before jumping in.

Josh,

From what I understand Dale was not apart of the VP30 development. Sooo, I was wondering if he was involved or is still involved in building the VP50 from the ground up?

So, this is an other difference between VP50 and VP30 since VP30 faq said that :

Interesting. Perhaps they received clarification of the HDMI licensing agreement which now allows transcoding of low(er) resolution HDMI audio.

This is a much needed feature on the VP50 because it has fewer SPDIF connectors compared to video input connectors.

Josh,

From what I understand Dale was not apart of the VP30 development. Sooo, I was wondering if he was involved or is still involved in building the VP50 from the ground up?

Dale did work/design the basic platform the vp30 was based on about 2 years ago. From what i understand he just doesn't work on finished products anymore but designs the basic elements that others combine into products. I think his work is all over the vp30 and the 102D and im sure the vp50.

One interesting tone if i understand Josh correctly the deinterlacer is still a fpga and unlike the 102D it can be updated by a firmware we can install ourselfs.

Talking about Dale when will he pop in again ? Been awhile its so close to cedia they should allow him out to play with us.

Daniel.

(1) Were you able to get along without a fan? If so, how much hotter does the VP50 get than the older VPs? Do we need to be extra careful where to place the VP50?

The iScan VP50 does have a temperature controlled fan that is exceptionally quiet. We are well aware that cutting costs to get a cheap noisy fan is an unexceptable solution for many users so we put extra effort into selection of a quiet fan and correct implementation of the fan controller.

(2) Are the deinterlacing FPGA algorithms updatable through firmware updates, too (unlike the ABT102 in the VP30)?

Yes, all video processing algorithms in the VP50 are on the FPGAs that are updateable through the serial port.

(3) Is a HD-SDI input module technically possible? If yes, is it planned? If no, does the VP50 work together with the Key Digital "Digital Blaster"?

We intend on designing an HD-SDI input module for the VP50. Until, the board is built and tested, we will not announce this as a product.

(4) Do the HDMI inputs support *any* resolution in - even unusual resolutions? I'm asking because clips you can download from the internet don't always come in standard resolutions. And when having a media player which is able to output the played content in exactly its native resolution over HDMI, it would be nice to have the VP50 to accept really *any* resolution in.

At release the VP50 will also process all resolutions that the VP30 processes as well as 1080p signals. What resolutions do you get out of your media player?

(5) The ABT homepage claims that there'd be noise reduction build into a DVDO device in 2006. Did you revise these plans? I was hoping that they'd make it into the VP50. Is there anything you can say about noise reduction?

I won't comment directly about our product roadmap but I think there are some hints as to the asnwer to this question elsewhere in my answers.

(6) I guess the VP50 comes too early for HDMI 1.3? If so, it will probably not be able to handle e.g. Dolby Digital Plus signals coming through HDMI, right? (Probably not too much of a problem, since multi channel PCM can be used instead).

The VP50 is not HDMI 1.3 compliant, and as far as I understand HDMI 1.2a transmitter chips are still not available.

(7) Were you able to put any new algorithms into the deinterlacing FPGA? E.g. some way to reduce the 24fps motion judder? Or maybe some improved deinterlacing stuff like 1 pixel motion compensation or something crazy like that?

The VP50 has Progressive Source Input Cadence Detection which means that a cadence can be detected on an a progressive input so that you can achieve a source-locked output. For example, with a source like a 720p broadcast of a movie on ABC, one could output a judder-free 1080p@48Hz

1) Does this processor support 1080/24PsF output, particularly for film based source material?

2) Is it HDMI 1.1 or HDMI 1.2 compliant?

all sounds good Josh, including the fan as I think the VP units need it, thanks for taking great care in working on a good fan setup

HD-SDI, now there is something to get excited over :eek:

-Gary

First of all, thanks Josh for the detailed answers!

Yes, all video processing algorithms in the VP50 are on the FPGAs that are updateable through the serial port.
Great!

We intend on designing an HD-SDI input module for the VP50. Until, the board is built and tested, we will not announce this as a product.
Good news.

At release the VP50 will also process all resolutions that the VP30 processes as well as 1080p signals. What resolutions do you get out of your media player?
I'm not sure, to be honest, the media player I'm looking for isn't released yet. It's just that I've some videos, mostly music videos, downloaded from the internet. I've just checked, there are resolutions like 480x480, 480x320, 384x288 etc. I'm not sure whether the media player will be able to output these videos in their native resolution over HDMI, but it would be the best solution for max PQ. Otherwise the media player would scale them to 480p and the iScan would scale again. That's also possible, of course, but not so good for PQ.

The VP50 has Progressive Source Input Cadence Detection which means that a cadence can be detected on an a progressive input so that you can achieve a source-locked output.
That's very nice!

Three more questions, if you don't mind:

(1) Is the full processing path at >= 10bit now? Or are some parts still in 8bit?

(2) Do you know whether the iScan accepts signals from the "Digital Blaster" (HD-SDI to DVI converter from Key Digital)?

(3) Is Dale still alive? Haven't seen him for quite a while on the forums.

Thanks again!

Josh,

Congratulations on yet another fantastic product! Looking forward to seeing it in action!!

Noise reduction sounds very promising. I hope MPEG, macroblock and mosquito find their way into the product specs soon...

madshi,

Dale has been designing algorithms and designs that are going into these products (in particular, the ABT102 and the HD deinterlacer in the VP50).

Will the VP50 contain a fix for the "Star Wars Bug"? Dale sounded like he had a fix a few months back so I would hope so.

- Collin

I am also very excited about the VP50 (like anyone couldn't tell that :D) this is going to be a benchmark unit IMHO

DVDO has the current 480i DI/scaling crown and I bet their 1080i will be just as good ;)

those with 720p displays should be excited also, you can now feed the VP50 all your 1080i sources and you will get the best possible 1080i to 720p conversion process to your display( where you at SOWK ;) )

I think this unit will be a huge hit with the 720p PJ crowd ;)

also If I understand correctly we now get the ability to play 1080i/60hz film sources (D-Theater for example)at 48/72HZ, oh happy day :)

-Gary

madshi,

Dale has been designing algorithms and designs that are going into these products (in particular, the ABT102 and the HD deinterlacer in the VP50).
I know. I just haven't seen him posting in the forums for quite a while.

The VP50 is not HDMI 1.3 compliant, and as far as I understand HDMI 1.2a transmitter chips are still not available.


1.2a Tx chips aren't available yet?

That seems weird since 1.3 Rx chips started shipping a few days ago.

1.3 are not available in any signifigant numbers and Sony is rumored to be buying them up for the overhyped PS3, also no repeater chips are available or some crap

-Gary

Sony is buying all of the blue laser diodes too.

Will the VP50 contain a fix for the "Star Wars Bug"?

What I found most interesting was Greg Rogers review of the Marantz VP11S1. He mentioned that both the HQV and Gennum also fail on this sequence. It is listed in the fourth paragraph under "Inverse-Telecine Deinterlacing".

What I found most interesting is Greg Rogers review of the Marantz VP11S1. He mentioned that both the HQV and Gennum also fail on this sequence.
I missed that, that's truely interesting - thanks!

I hope MPEG, macroblock and mosquito find their way into the product specs soon...


If/when that happens I'll upgrade from the VP30.

1.3 are not available in any signifigant numbers and Sony is rumored to be buying them up for the overhyped PS3, also no repeater chips are available or some crap

-Gary

Sony is buying up the Tx chips ... not the Rx chips.


Regardless, I'm simply stating it seems weird that Rx chips (historically the first to ship) are available for the newest spec ... but Tx or repeater chips are not available for the prior one?

It may be true ... I don't know. I just think it's weird that this would occur.

I'm relaying a question by another poster on another forum (partly because I'd like to know myself as well):

-How come the VP30, VP20 and now VP50 only has one HDMI output?
What about people who have for instance a projector for movie watching and a flat screen TV for TV watching (in the same room)?
Is this somehow a stupid qustion?

Not at all. My next scaler has to have two HDMI outs. I won't settle for less. I think 3,000 is steep if it does not have two HDMI outs...

I'm relaying a question by another poster on another forum (partly because I'd like to know myself as well):

-How come the VP30, VP20 and now VP50 only has one HDMI output?
What about people who have for instance a projector for movie watching and a flat screen TV for TV watching (in the same room)?
Is this somehow a stupid qustion?

Its not but if it needs the same signal its easy to get a hdmi splitter (they run about $500 for 4 outputs). If you want different signals on them it becomes more tricky since that would mean a whole extra video path inside the scaler.

btw i use analog out on a vp30 for my tv and hdmi for my projector so i know where you are coming from.

Daniel.

How about more HDMI inputs also. Four isn't enough.

Is the full processing path at >= 10bit now? Or are some parts still in 8bit?


The full processing path of the VP50 is 10-bit.

aaronwt,

add a switcher, there are plenty of IR controllers that will do it properly. Adding more than 4 HDMI inputs means that they'll have to either lose a few other inputs (and we need them all) or that the price will go up because they'll need to add more boards (a second level).

stacey,

Just learned that the whole 6 episodes will be shown in hd pretty soon. I guess that means I can finally throw out the DVDs and move on to 1080i for all 6 episodes (at least until they come out in a physical format).

aaronwt,

add a switcher, there are plenty of IR controllers that will do it properly. Adding more than 4 HDMI inputs means that they'll have to either lose a few other inputs (and we need them all) or that the price will go up because they'll need to add more boards (a second level).

stacey,

Just learned that the whole 6 episodes will be shown in hd pretty soon. I guess that means I can finally throw out the DVDs and move on to 1080i for all 6 episodes (at least until they come out in a physical format).

In which format?

I'm using the VP30/ABT102 with a 60" SXRD (XBR1) and love this setup. Picture quality is top notch on both SD and HD. I'm very interested in the added features of the VP50, but am not sure I can take full advantage of them in my setup.

The XBR1 is a 1080p set, but only accepts 720p/1080i inputs. The internal deinterlacer is quite good, from what I can tell anyway.

My question involves how the VP50 handles HD. Ideally what would work best for me would for the VP50 to deinterlace a 1080i input and perform all it's processing on the signal, then re-interlace it back to 1080i cleanly such that my XBR1 won't add any (or at least minimal) artifacts to the image.

It's my understanding that the Gennum processor in Anthem's D2 handles 1080i in this fashion. Some clarity on the VP50's signal chain would be extremely helpful.

Thanks!

In which format?

I believe he's referring to the upcoming Cinemax-HD broadcasts.

Josh
When does it ship?

PerS
Norway

how would this scaler be useful if you have a 1080p display like the Pioneer PRO-FHD1 that already accepts and upconverts and scales all signals to 1080p? Would the VP50 give you a better picture?

Josh
When does it ship?

PerS
Norway

He said earlier in the thread...Sept 06

westy I would be willing to bet that the DVDO would beat any internal 1080i DI in any TV in the world, except maybe those with HQV, it could be even better than HQV, time will tell, this is going to be a fun Fall ;)

-Gary

$2,999 msrp.

how would this scaler be useful if you have a 1080p display like the Pioneer PRO-FHD1 that already accepts and upconverts and scales all signals to 1080p? Would the VP50 give you a better picture?If this set accepts 1080p and passes it through unprocessed, then "yes" the VP50 could improve the picture. If not, then no.

Ideally what would work best for me would for the VP50 to deinterlace a 1080i input and perform all it's processing on the signal, then re-interlace it back to 1080i cleanly such that my XBR1 won't add any (or at least minimal) artifacts to the image.This doesn't make any sense to me. There would be absolutely no advantage to deinterlacing a signal only to re-interlace it again.

For sets like this I would have the VP30 output 720p and then leave your display to scale it up to 1080. This way all of the deinterlacing is done by the processor.

bobloblaw: Regarding having a video processor convert 1080i to 1080p, then send clean 1080i/60 to your XBR1 display, that doesnt ever work, simply because the processor in the xbr1 won't know to do a simple weave on the 1080i/60 input to create a progressive image. it's either going to assume its regular interlaced video, or think its film.

The best you can do when you have a 1080i/60 source signal with a 1080p display that wont accept a 1080p signal is to send the 1080i/60 into the display and let it deinterlace it. If you start with 480i you should go the 720p route, to let the Video Processor do its superior deinterlacing, but for 1080i if you output 720p you will lose resolution and that in itself creates artifacts that can be annoying.

I played with this for a while on my Qualia 004 before it could accept 1080p/60 and ended up just going with the upgrade to allow it to accept 1080p/60 and 1080p/50.

In your case the best results you will obtain is to let the Video processor do very little processing (probably just color correction if possible) on the 1080i signal and send it as 1080i to the display. For 480i, 480p and 720p input, have the video processor send 720p to your display, then you will get the full processor benefit (the XBR1 can scale a 720p signal to 1080p without doing much processing or causing any errors). But for 1080i input you are kind of stuck to using the tv's internal deinterlacer.

Josh. Congratulations on your new title and job responsibilities.

In case the posters here didn't know, it is my understanding that Josh is the Product Manager for the VP50. What features it has etc etc. And he has obviously listened to our product requests. Now he couldn't give everyone everything they wanted, but wow, what he gave us.

Ofer is correct. If you need more HDMI out, add a switcher.

Other things will come too, but a good project manager can't make promises ahead of engineering and product development and then is limited by what the bean counters authorize for him to give away as downloadable upgrades.
.
So let;s not beat him to death, OK maybe a little love slap now and then to keep him on his toes, but no bitch slapping.:).

Thanks for the response Tom and uzun.

Tom: I realize my question may not make sense. My thought was that if the VP50 could de-interlace the 1080i source and in the process clean up some of the artifacts, then re-interlace the signal without those artifacts in the end I would end up with a cleaner picture. Perhaps my thinking here is wrong. Converting all signals to 720p would work, but I'd rather not loose resolution on 1080i sources.

uzun: Thanks for the info, your experience with the Qualia is helpful. I wish my XBR1 could be updated to accept 1080p inputs. Your idea about sending SD and 720p signals to the display as 720p, but leave 1080i alone is a good one. Even better if I can configure the VP50 to do this on it's own without the need to switch between presets manually.

In the end, if I'm only getting the benefit of the VP50 on 720p and not 1080i it's probably not worth the money to upgrade considering I'm very satisfied with the video performance of the VP30 (DVDO, just get those audio dropouts fixed!)

Again, thanks for the help guys. This forum is great.

Josh,
Since there seems to be a relationship between DVDO and JVC, has the V50 been tested with JVC's DLA-HD10K @ 48Hz? If so, any judder?

bobloblaw : a costly solution (probably no more than the qualia upgrade though), and one that will give you what you want is to sell the XBR1, and buy an XBR2 when they come out in a few weeks. Then trade in your VP30 for a VP50. You will get the benefits of the newer model display (brighter bulb, accepts 1080p etc) along with the new video processor. You can then just send 1080/60P for everything, or if the set will accept it and adjust its on screen refresh rate accordingly, you could even try 1080/48P for film based material out of the VP50 and see how that works. The XBR2 might not like 1080/48P however, I'm not sure what it does with it even if it does accept it.

Regardless you would be able to send 1080/60P and get the results you are after, although it is a somewhat costly proposition.

Josh,
Since there seems to be a relationship between DVDO and JVC, has the V50 been tested with JVC's DLA-HD10K @ 48Hz? If so, any judder?

I am currently using an HD2K with the VP50 at 60Hz and it looks spectacular. The VP50 uses the same judder free frame rate conversion as the VP30, which is paired with the both the HD2K and HD10K. JVC has not had the opportunity to test the VP50 with the HD10K yet.

Josh. Congratulations on your new title and job responsibilities.

In case the posters here didn't know, it is my understanding that Josh is the Product Manager for the VP50. What features it has etc etc. And he has obviously listened to our product requests. Now he couldn't give everyone everything they wanted, but wow, what he gave us.


Thanks, Mark. I have actually been the Product Marketing Manager for over a year now. :D

Josh,

From what I understand Dale was not apart of the VP30 development. Sooo, I was wondering if he was involved or is still involved in building the VP50 from the ground up?

Dale typically works on new technology development, deinterlacing for example. We have an excellent group of engineers that design the hardware and software for our system products and ASICs that use the technologies developed by Dale and Laurence Thompson, designer of Precision Video Scaling.

Do you know whether the iScan accepts signals from the "Digital Blaster" (HD-SDI to DVI converter from Key Digital)?

We have not tested an iScan with the "Digital Blaster". Does it have incompatibility problems?

Josh,
Earlier in the thread you were asked about noise reduction and you gave a somewhat cryptic answer about not commenting directly about your product roadmap but that you gave some hints elsewhere in your answers. Could you elaborate at all on what you meant by this? Are there noise reduction algorithms in the VP50 or are you planning on some sort of an add-on module for the VP-50 or a completely separate product?
TIA.

We have not tested an iScan with the "Digital Blaster". Does it have incompatibility problems?
It seems to send 480i/576i or 1080i50/60 YCbCr 8bit 4:4:4 over DVI "without infoframe". Not sure what the "infoframe" stuff means. Does the VP50 accept this?

For those of us that may not be Mensa AV folks could a simple answer be provided that impacts the flood of 1080P input TV's now arriving with more to come.

I'm confused as to the analysis of the XBR1 above or lets say any new 1080P panel. Lets say you have the XBR1 or a new XBR2 that does 1080P.

Are you saying it's a waste to add a VP50 for HD processing?

Before folks fork over $3K they should have an upfront understanding of how this VP will impact a 1080P input TV that is already 1080P. Yes, I understand it will improve SD and that should be a given on that model but what about 1080P - is the VP50 going to outperform the built in 1080P processing or better put 1080i to 1080P? Bottom line no one should spend $3K without knowing this first. Spec sheets in page one look impressive but a simplistic approach to anyone buying a brand new panel with 1080P inputs what it brings to the table for $3,000 besides SD as I'm confused by the above response on the XBR1 - it seems the responder felt the TV would do a better job? Then why bother with a VP50?

Are we as consumers wasting that extra money for the HD processing if we have a 1080P panel?

I'm preparing to upgrade to a 60"-70" 1080P panel and I already have a new VP30 w/ADT102 unused as of yet as it's being saved for my next larger TV since my Sharp doesn't need alot of help IMO and now I'm looking at an upgrade for the large TV but need to know before considering the upgrade program and yet more money.

Often many members in the RPTV and the PDP/LCD threads have questons on tweaking PQ and if ths helps we could help spread the word on the VP50 or others over there where I spend most of my time but I want to have credibility behind the recommendation if someones spending $4-$10K on a new panel with HD DVD or BD that a VP50 would take it to yet another level.

Thank you. :)

Are you saying it's a waste to add a VP50 for HD processing?
NO.

The situation is rather complex. Let me give you a few reasons why the VP50 still makes sense even if you have a 1080p display which accepts 1080p:

(1) The Toshiba HD-DVD player only outputs 1080i. Every 1080p display can "deinterlace" that to 1080p, but most displays will not do a really good job with it. The VP50 should be able to give you a perfect 1080p signal for HD-DVD.

(2) The Samsung HD-DVD player outputs either 1080i or 1080p60. For 1080i see (1). When using 1080p60, you have the typical NTSC 3:2 motion judder. If your display is capabable to accept and natively display 1080p with 24Hz or 48Hz or 72Hz, then the VP50 can give you judder free playback.

(3) Movie broadcasting is done in 1080i. See (1).

(4) Sports broadcasting is done in 1080i. This is even more extreme than (1), because sports is recorded interlaced. Deinterlacing this in a good way is really difficult and the VP50 is almost guaranteed to do it better than any display out on the market.

(5) Of course SD is handled much better by the VP50 than by (almost?) any display.

(6) The VP50 can do gamma calibration etc, if you want to ISF calibrate your setup.

There are more benefits, but these are probably the most important. Whether this is worth 3k USD for you, is your personal decision, of course. It might depend on how good of a video processor your display has built in. The better the video processing in your display is, the less difference you'll see with the VP50.

One thing you should make sure is that your display supports 1:1 pixel mapping. That's important to get the best out of it. You can benefit from the VP50 without 1:1 pixel mapping, too, but you'd lose a bit of sharpness/detail this way.

NO.

...Every 1080p display can "deinterlace" that to 1080p...
Not "every" because mine (http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/features.jsp?model_id=MDL101568&feature_id=01) doesn't. ;)

Not "every" because mine (http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/features.jsp?model_id=MDL101568&feature_id=01) doesn't. ;)
Oh! :eek:

Before folks fork over $3K they should have an upfront understanding of how this VP will impact a 1080P input TV that is already 1080P. Yes, I understand it will improve SD and that should be a given on that model but what about 1080P - is the VP50 going to outperform the built in 1080P processing or better put 1080i to 1080P? Bottom line no one should spend $3K without knowing this first. Spec sheets in page one look impressive but a simplistic approach to anyone buying a brand new panel with 1080P inputs what it brings to the table for $3,000 besides SD as I'm confused by the above response on the XBR1 - it seems the responder felt the TV would do a better job? Then why bother with a VP50?

Are we as consumers wasting that extra money for the HD processing if we have a 1080P panel?

Often many members in the RPTV and the PDP/LCD threads have questons on tweaking PQ and if ths helps we could help spread the word on the VP50 or others over there where I spend most of my time but I want to have credibility behind the recommendation if someones spending $4-$10K on a new panel with HD DVD or BD that a VP50 would take it to yet another level.

Thank you. :)

Westa,

I have run into you over in the Samsung 1080P LCD forum and know that you really like to "resolve every pixel of CSI: Miami". CSI: Miami is broadcast in 1080i video format which is very difficult to de-interlace into 1080P. Sports which are broadcast in 1080i(CBS, NBC, etc.) are also hard to de-interlace into 1080P. In fact, as far as I can tell reading these forums, only over the past few months have video processors been available on the market that will de-interlace 1080i into 1080p. The VP50, Crystalio II, Calibre Vantage and Algolith DragonFly are all examples.

I came over here because the SD on my 1080P LCD is woeful. I am looking at the same thing as you so the question you have to answer is that is it really worth the price to get the VP50 to properly de-interlace 1080i video into 1080P?

There are other benefits that madshi mentioned, but I think the most important is de-interlacing 1080i video into 1080P.

I personally don't think that the HD DVD and Blu Ray are as important because the content is stored as 1080p on the discs so when the players begin to output 1080p it will pass straight through to the panel.

One thing you should make sure is that your display supports 1:1 pixel mapping. That's important to get the best out of it. You can benefit from the VP50 without 1:1 pixel mapping, too, but you'd lose a bit of sharpness/detail this way.

Madshi,

At the risk of sounding ignorant, if the VP50 outputs 1080p/60 and the native rate of my Samsung LCD is 1080P/60 then why is 1:1 pixel mapping so important? I thought that 1:1 pixel mapping was important for sets with uncommon aspect ratios like 1365 x 768 etc as well as for HTPC use. Is that not the case or are you saying that 1:1 pixel mapping is important for something else that I am not think of like overscan?

I was hoping that I could just set the video processor to 1080p/60 and leave it alone. Is that too naive?

Madshi,

At the risk of sounding ignorant, if the VP50 outputs 1080p/60 and the native rate of my Samsung LCD is 1080P/60 then why is 1:1 pixel mapping so important? I thought that 1:1 pixel mapping was important for sets with uncommon aspect ratios like 1365 x 768 etc as well as for HTPC use. Is that not the case or are you saying that 1:1 pixel mapping is important for something else that I am not think of like overscan?

I was hoping that I could just set the video processor to 1080p/60 and leave it alone. Is that too naive?
Yes, that's too naive. 1:1 pixel mapping and overscan belong together. If you have exactly 0% overscan, then you probably have 1:1 pixel mapping (or not). Basically 1:1 pixel mapping means that every pixel of the source is exactly shown by one physical pixel of your display. If you feed your display 1080p60, your display *can* automatically do 1:1 pixel mapping, but it can also zoom into the image = applying overscan. It depends on your display how it behaves. E.g. the new Pioneer 50" 1080p plasma "FHD1" has a special mode called "dot by dot" or something like that, which you can activate when feeding it 1080p. When you activate that, you have true 1:1 pixel mapping without having to tinker with the timings. If you deactivate "dot by dot", the FHD1 will overscan the image. Overscanning means rescaling, which is bad.

Thank you very much for your analysis and response Madshi - My only goal is to have everything looks as good as CSI Miami ;) or that new Hitachi 1080 Plasma Commercial with the White Leopard (Amazing) when my Sharp is doing dot-by-dot mode. Don't know if others have seen this commercial done by a famous French Director but I've never seen such clarity that Hitachi would make my Sharp look so great. ;)

May be looking to upgrade after all. Thanks again. :)

Not "every" because mine doesn't.Well, every fixed-pixel display (LCD, DLP, LCoS, Plasma) does, because this is a progressive display technology by definition. It may not accept 1080p, but it has to convert 1080i to 1080p internally to display anything.

Well, every fixed-pixel display (LCD, DLP, LCoS, Plasma) does, because this is a progressive display technology by definition. It may not accept 1080p, but it has to convert 1080i to 1080p internally to display anything.
Just like I said it doesn't (I do own it and know for sure). It MUST be fed 1080p and will not accept, convert, or scale any other signal because it has no internal scaler. You should have read the ink (http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/press_res.jsp?model_id=MDL101568&feature_id=08) before posting.

It is possible to have 1:1 and still have overscan.

I have the HL-S5088W RP from Samsung. By default it has overscan w/o 1:1. You can go into the service menu and turn digital overscan off. At this point you are 1:1 but you still have overscan due to the bezel around the screen.

Digital overscan is fake overscan. This is done by cropping the outer portion of the image and then resizing it up. This is often done to remove garbage near the edges of the image.

Josh,
Unless the vp50 is able to force the sky box to transmit sd signals at 576i through hdmi its not going to be of much use to us in the uk,I know that we can recieve this signal through component but sky intend to cut off this output before very long.Will you do something to sort this out for us very soon?

Josh,

This sounds like an outstanding product. I know I am getting ahead of myself, but are there plans to release a VP40 with simplified connections and lower MSRP similar to the VP20/VP30 relationship? My guess is based on the VP20 schedule that a VP40 wouldn't be released until May/June of 2007. You guys have to recoup your investment costs!

Since you understandably probably won't answer my question I will provide some customer feedback. I am a member of your target market for the VP20. I want to improve the picture of SD, but I am not a "tweaker". I would prefer to plug in my cable box(soon to be series 3 TiVo) and DVD player both connected via HDMI and "go." I do, however, have a Samsung 1080P LCD so I could take advantage of, and am interested in, the 1080i de-interlacing available in the VP50, but I don't need all the custom settings and analog inputs.

The question for someone in my shoes("middle market" as you refer to us in your VP20 press release :) ) is whether 1080i de-interlacing is worth the price difference between the VP20 and VP50($1300 MSRP difference). In my situation I can't justify that cost difference, but if there were a VP40 with fewer custom settings and analog inputs for say $2499 MSRP then the equation changes and I would probably splurge for the VP40.

Isn't economics great?

Josh:I gather it won't support 1080/24PsF output upon release (since there has been no response to my questions), but is it possible that 1080/24PsF output will be added shortly after release?

I for one have been looking forward to seeing Dale's HD-DL in action.

Josh: what's the code name of this one Josh if SD-DL was ABT102?

I am really looking forward to seeing edge adaptive processing for smooth diagonal edges on 1080i material as well as 480i/576i where ABT102 is excellent.

Why do we need a good 1080p processor when we have 1080p displays?
I've had Pioneer's new 1080p plasma since the day it was available, this is considered to have state-of-the-art 1080i deinterlacing as far as displays go. But with all these things it's the cadence detection that lets them down (for none AV-mensa people: this tells the deinterlacer that signal is 'film source' or 'video source').

To be fair it does okay with 480i and 1080i/60 that have easily recognisable 3:2 pulldown patterns -- but where 1080p displays are weak is 576i and 1080i/50 and difficult to detect 2:2 pulldown patterns.

ABT102 aced 576i cadence detection, and I am confident that it's bigger brother will do the same with 1080i/50.


I am sure there will be other great features added, such as: HD-SDI, EDID edit, reinterlace (de-bob), and possible features such as noise reduction.

I very much look forward to DVDO iScan VP50. :D

StooMonster

I for one have been looking forward to seeing Dale's HD-DL in action.

Josh: what's the code name of this one Josh if SD-DL was ABT102?



Quite simply: HD-DL

One thing you should make sure is that your display supports 1:1 pixel mapping. That's important to get the best out of it. You can benefit from the VP50 without 1:1 pixel mapping, too, but you'd lose a bit of sharpness/detail this way.
How can you tell if your particular display supports 1:1 pixel mapping? I have the new Sony 70XBR2 on pre-order. Can you tell if this set has 1:1 by looking at the menu options available, or does anyone know about Sony SXRD's in general with respect to this issue?

Blue,

You need to feed in a test pattern to verify 1:1 mapping.

How can you tell if your particular display supports 1:1 pixel mapping? I have the new Sony 70XBR2 on pre-order. Can you tell if this set has 1:1 by looking at the menu options available, or does anyone know about Sony SXRD's in general with respect to this issue?

The new Sony non-XBR SXRD sets do accept 1080p@60Hz on the HDMI input and allow 1:1. The likelihood that they would not allow this on the XBRs is very low. Additionally, these two specs (from the Sony website) all but confirm this:

-Full HD 1920x1080 native SXRD™ panel resolution
-1080p input resolution through HDMI™ connection

The question for someone in my shoes("middle market" as you refer to us in your VP20 press release ) is whether 1080i de-interlacing is worth the price difference between the VP20 and VP50($1300 MSRP difference). In my situation I can't justify that cost difference, but if there were a VP40 with fewer custom settings and analog inputs for say $2499 MSRP then the equation changes and I would probably splurge for the VP40.
Looks like great tech, but $3000 is getting a bit steep for my blood. HD is an expensive hobby. Obviously the price leaving a $500 gap for the VP40 to fit in. But my HD+ was half VP50, and the iScan Pro half that.

There will be no VP40....

Josh:I gather it won't support 1080/24PsF output upon release (since there has been no response to my questions),

Nor is it listed on the first post of this thread.

but is it possible that 1080/24PsF output will be added shortly after release?

Anything is possible but we would rather announce a feature after it has been tested. We are very aware that combined with our superior 480i/1080i deinterlacing and frame rate conversion that 004 owners would have a "go to" VP with this additional output resolution.

I guess what I am asking regarding 1080/24PsF output support, is it relatively easy to add given the design of the VP50, or are there hardware or other system constraints that make adding this output format difficult and/or impossible.

Gamma (R/G/B and up to 1024 point Gamma individual RGB correction)

So now you will be able to get that perfect Gamma curve even if your display does not have the controls for it. Full 10 bit RGB output Look Up Table management. Guess we need to get busy in CalMAN to add support for this :)
We need to get, um, a couple of engineering samples... ;)

Uzun I am sure DVDO will strive and work to provide 1080 24p on the VP50 :)

what display device wants this anyway? there aren't many are there ?

-Gary

How about an optional HD-SDI Output... that would seal the deal for me :cool:

testing anything like this Josh?

I think they provide 1080 24p, but not 1080/24PsF. The Qualia 004 only accepts 1080/24PsF, 1080/60P and 1080/50p. 1080/24PsF provides smoother playback for film sources than 1080/60P does, with a 48hz rather than 60hz on screen refresh rate.

My question doesn't involve output of 1080 24P but 1080/24PsF, which I sort of think they will provide unless there's some hardware or system issue that makes implementing it difficult.

Gino you can't beat DVDO's HDMI output, just get a HDMI to HD-SDI converter ;)

Josh did mentioned a HD-SDI input :)

Uzun me stupid, please explain to me what the difference is between 1080/24p and 1080/24PsF? ;)

-Gary

Quite simply: HD-DL
Your brand is VRS though right? Like Gennum VXP and Realta HQV -- it's Anchor Bay Technology VRS.

So, we can talk about VRS vs VXP vs HQV etc. :)

StooMonster

Your brand is VRS though right? Like Gennum VXP and Realta HQV -- it's Anchor Bay Technology VRS.

So, we can talk about VRS vs VXP vs HQV etc. :)

StooMonster
See here:

http://www.anchorbaytech.com/news/VRS-launch.html

VRS stands for "Video Reference Series".

Like HQV means "Hollywood Quality Videoprocessing" and VXP means "Visual Excellence Processing", VRS does indeed mean "Video Reference Series".

So, as above, in discussion it's HQV vs VXP vs VRS then.

StooMonster

Unless the vp50 is able to force the sky box to transmit sd signals at 576i through hdmi its not going to be of much use to us in the uk,I know that we can recieve this signal through component but sky intend to cut off this output before very long.Will you do something to sort this out for us very soon?
Josh said above that VP50 (and I believe VP30 and VP20) will soon have EDID edit capabilities so that we can force interlaced signals over HDMI.

In Sky HD's case we know that this works (you're all welcome BTW ;)) but if it doesn't Dale Adams has dicussed his "reinterlace" algorithm in other forums/posts, this algorithm extracts an SD interlaced signal from a deinterlaced one. i.e. it extracts the original 480i from 480p (or 576i from 576p) so that VRS can deinterlace it "properly".

Either or both of these should solve the forced progressive SD over HDMI issue with Sky HD, HD DVD, BluRay, etc. If we don't see them in first version of VP50 software, I am hoping that we'll see them in later versions.

StooMonster

How about an optional HD-SDI Output... that would seal the deal for me

An HD-SDI output would not be able to pass any HDCP-encrypted HDMI input signals.

Your brand is VRS though right? Like Gennum VXP and Realta HQV -- it's Anchor Bay Technology VRS.

So, we can talk about VRS vs VXP vs HQV etc. :)

StooMonster

You are correct Stoo, the deinterlacers code name is HD-DL, as Dale mentioned previosuly, but the combination of our deinterlacing and scaling in any product is known as VRS technology, Video Reference Series.

I have a conference call with the folks at DVDO at 1pm today to work out prebuy specials. Stay tuned!

I have a conference call with the folks at DVDO at 1pm today to work out prebuy specials. Stay tuned!


That prebuy special should also include the option of an upgrade from other DVDO product.

Benoit

There will be no VP40....

Read post 96. Maybe you should reconsider that. ;)

Josh said above that VP50 (and I believe VP30 and VP20) will soon have EDID edit capabilities so that we can force interlaced signals over HDMI.

In Sky HD's case we know that this works (you're all welcome BTW ;)) but if it doesn't Dale Adams has dicussed his "reinterlace" algorithm in other forums/posts, this algorithm extracts an SD interlaced signal from a deinterlaced one. i.e. it extracts the original 480i from 480p (or 576i from 576p) so that VRS can deinterlace it "properly".

Either or both of these should solve the forced progressive SD over HDMI issue with Sky HD, HD DVD, BluRay, etc. If we don't see them in first version of VP50 software, I am hoping that we'll see them in later versions.

StooMonster
Would this upgrade be in the form of just a firmware download then if as you say it is not in the first issue of the units?

See the Upgrade program has been posted

Can I buy through AVS using the upgrade program?

Would this upgrade be in the form of just a firmware download then if as you say it is not in the first issue of the units?
Yep, that's right.

One of the interesting things about VP50 is that a lot more of it can be upgraded via firmware update than was the case for VP30+ABT102, where ABT102 could not be changed once it was in production.

Josh etal are aware that this is a critical feature for many of their customers, and I believe we'll see something before too long.

StooMonster

Josh,
Unless the vp50 is able to force the sky box to transmit sd signals at 576i through hdmi its not going to be of much use to us in the uk,I know that we can recieve this signal through component but sky intend to cut off this output before very long.Will you do something to sort this out for us very soon?

The EDID or de-progressive news is good, but I don't think the sentence in bold is true. Do you have a source for that?

Apart from which, I don't want digital until I've got a panel that can take native res @ 50 over digital. Seems little point having a scaler otherwise. If the vp could transcode digital to analogue, then great. Thanks good ol' HDCP :angry:

The EDID or de-progressive news is good, but I don't think the sentence in bold is true. Do you have a source for that?

Apart from which, I don't want digital until I've got a panel that can take native res @ 50 over digital. Seems little point having a scaler otherwise. If the vp could transcode digital to analogue, then great. Thanks good ol' HDCP :angry:

I think the "Sky will stop supporting...." is probably refering to the fact that the second generation HD boxes won't have a component output. They can't "stop supporting" component on the current boxes - they've been sold with that capability - I can't see they'd be allowed to turn it off. And, with the second gen. of boxes, who knows if they'll have the same 576p issue.

I think the "Sky will stop supporting...." is probably refering to the fact that the second generation HD boxes won't have a component output. They can't "stop supporting" component on the current boxes - they've been sold with that capability - I can't see they'd be allowed to turn it off. And, with the second gen. of boxes, who knows if they'll have the same 576p issue.
I dont think Sky have used hdcp yet but when they do,hdmi will be the only way.I think I am right in saying this.

I dont think Sky have used hdcp yet but when they do,hdmi will be the only way.I think I am right in saying this.
All HDMI output of Sky HD is HDCP encrypted, except channel 998. Trouble with Sky HD's stb is the component output is 'soft' and has chroma timing issues.

Back on topic, is VP50's Precision Video Scaling II™ the same as VP30 or has this been tweaked and enhanced?

StooMonster

StooMonster,

I'm sure you noticed on page 1 that Josh noted Precision Video Scaling with Enhanced Sharpness control. This may be an answer to the softness that some have noted with DVDO's scaling as compared to Lumagens. I'd love to hear a more detailed description from Josh though.

I'm sure you noticed on page 1 that Josh noted Precision Video Scaling with Enhanced Sharpness control. This may be an answer to the softness that some have noted with DVDO's scaling as compared to Lumagens. I'd love to hear a more detailed description from Josh though.
That's very perceptive of you AndyN, you hit the nail on the head. Lumagen's scaling is impressive, it is not at all soft and is 'ringing' free. I am hoping that VP50 is the same. :)

StooMonster

That's very perceptive of you AndyN, you hit the nail on the head. Lumagen's scaling is impressive, it is not at all soft and is 'ringing' free. I am hoping that VP50 is the same. :)

StooMonster
StooMonster,

I'm hoping too. BTW, I should have said "I don't know if you noticed.." in my above post. Didn't mean to sound all snooty.

Pricing and trade in details are up (see the top sticky)! All I can say is ACT SOON to SAVE!!! :)

the deal for trade in, is up

all in all you trade in a VP30 with 102 you get a VP50 for 999$

sweet sweet deal IMHO

-Gary

Yes indeed. And considering you are getting a $2000 credit for it, I know many customers didn't even pay that originally! :)

I feel like Crazy Eddy...these prices are INSANE!!! :)

or Crazy Gideon :D

-Gary

Doh!

Pricing and trade in details are up (see the top sticky)! All I can say is ACT SOON to SAVE!!! :)
Jason, are these going to be drop-shipped from DVDO in Campbell, or are they going all the back to NY first?

The upgrades will drop ship. For those who are straight purchasing, we are getting them in stock and shipping from here.

The upgrades will drop ship. For those who are straight purchasing, we are getting them in stock and shipping from here.
Thanks, I can do ground shipping then, it's overnight for me. :)

There you go. :)

Jason, is this offer available for international customers? PM sent

Yes indeed. And considering you are getting a $2000 credit for it, I know many customers didn't even pay that originally! :)

I feel like Crazy Eddy...these prices are INSANE!!! :)

Simply amazing! The trade in for my Iscan HD+ is $1000 which is about what I paid for it years ago. Add in the AVS discount and this is an unbeatable deal for truly cutting edge performance.

How true. The $2000 credit (w/ABT) more than fully recovers my investment (and that's what this deal makes my original purchase) on the VP30. It's like an added discount to get the latest and (hopefully) greatest. Now I can really consider HD-DVD since the VP50 will probably scale the 1080i down to a beautiful 720p for my 3 chip DLP. When do these ship again? :D

Josh,

The VP30 thread indicated that the next gen VP from DVDO (now called the VP50) would continue to use the Sil504 DI chip. Is this still the case?

Josh,

The VP30 thread indicated that the next gen VP from DVDO (now called the VP50) would continue to use the Sil504 DI chip. Is this still the case?

I believe that reference may have had to do with the now released VP20. All video processing in the VP50 was developed in house at ABT.

Josh,

The VP30 thread indicated that the next gen VP from DVDO (now called the VP50) would continue to use the Sil504 DI chip. Is this still the case?

Mark, I wouldn't presume to answer for Josh, but in my reading of the comparison page, it shows the Sil504 "check marked" for the VP30, but NOT for the VP50. It shows a box solely for the VP50 with: "VRS HD Precision Deinterlacing™ (1080i)" which may mean this replaces the Sil504. Otherwise, it may be a typo. Just what I took from the comparison chart.

EDIT - Oops, I see Josh got in just ahead of my, now useless, post. Sorry.

Jason, is this offer available for international customers? PM sent

Never mind, I read that its an extra $250 for international customers. Was too excited :)

Did I read correctly that the VP50 does not give the benefit of full de-interlacing to analog (component video) 1080i sources? According to the feature comparison on the website that source is just scaled. Or is this a misprint?

Never mind, I read that its an extra $250 for international customers. Was too excited :)

:mad:

All in all international customers have to pay $2849 including shipping?

Honestly, it doesn't look fair to me, because it is meant to be a promotion special for ALL members of the AVS Forum. In the forum, there is large number of international users. Everybody - doesn't matter where from - should be treaten the same way!
Additional $250 for what? I mean, in the end it is still me who has to pay for additional taxes and custom fees - not DVDO.

I hope that this is not DVDO's last word regarding the VP50 "Preorder Special".

Occasionally a potential customer posts that they don't want to buy the latest DVDO processor because they want to wait for the next model. Everybody chimes in that DVDO is generous with the upgrades, but you've really got to see it to believe it. Here's a break down of my two years or so on the DVDO upgrade train and this isn't even the cheapest way to do it.

All prices are MSRP or AVS, so I believe this is within the forum policy.


Fall 2004 +$1499 - HD+
Fall 2005 +$1999 - VP30
-$1000 - DVDO Trade In to VP30
-$300 - AVS Discount on VP30
Spring 2006 +$499 - ABT102
-$300 - Intro Discount on ABT102
Fall 2006 +$2999 - VP50
-$1600 - DVDO Trade In to VP50
-$400 - AVS Discount on VP50


Total outlay $3396 vs. cost of new VP50 $2999. Not bad for two years of enjoyment and several major upgrades. Not to mention that I just keep reusing my SDI card or the countless features that were added in free software upgrades.

- Collin

I'm sure you noticed on page 1 that Josh noted Precision Video Scaling with Enhanced Sharpness control.VP30 also has this enhanced sharpness control.

Really, I must have missed that.

Occasionally a potential customer posts that they don't want to buy the latest DVDO processor because they want to wait for the next model. Everybody chimes in that DVDO is generous with the upgrades, but you've really got to see it to believe it. Here's a break down of my two years or so on the DVDO upgrade train and this isn't even the cheapest way to do it.

All prices are MSRP or AVS, so I believe this is within the forum policy.


Fall 2004 +$1499 - HD+
Fall 2005 +$1999 - VP30
-$1000 - DVDO Trade In to VP30
-$300 - AVS Discount on VP30
Spring 2006 +$499 - ABT102
-$300 - Intro Discount on ABT102
Fall 2006 +$2999 - VP50
-$1600 - DVDO Trade In to VP50
-$400 - AVS Discount on VP50


Total outlay $3396 vs. cost of new VP50 $2999. Not bad for two years of enjoyment and several major upgrades. Not to mention that I just keep reusing my SDI card or the countless features that were added in free software upgrades.

- Collin

It is pretty spectacular, I'm actually a little shocked at how good a deal the upgrade to the VP50 is, I was expecting to spend more, (..but don't tell DVDO that... :p ).

I believe that reference may have had to do with the now released VP20. All video processing in the VP50 was developed in house at ABT.

Thanks Josh and Ray for clarifying this. This is truly a great deal with the AVS discount and the trade-in. I think I'm going to jump on it before the folks at DVDO realize they could have charged me another $1k ;)

:mad:

All in all international customers have to pay $2849 including shipping?

Honestly, it doesn't look fair to me, because it is meant to be a promotion special for ALL members of the AVS Forum. In the forum, there is large number of international users. Everybody - doesn't matter where from - should be treaten the same way!
Additional $250 for what? I mean, in the end it is still me who has to pay for additional taxes and custom fees - not DVDO.

I hope that this is not DVDO's last word regarding the VP50 "Preorder Special".

Ive talked to dvdo several times over this in the last few years. I think there are 2 issues you should not mix.

1) the $250 extra cost, this is mostly for higher taxes/handling and local dealer support. If they calc it out for you it becomes clear that this is very fair.

2) the 'special' relation that avs has with the company results in a even better deal. This is ofcourse is partly the work of Jason and others but also partly its done to 'support' the community of active users on the board.

The problem with point 2 is that 'we' feel we are all part of the same community and feel that a gap of this time again $650 between the rest of the world and if you live in the states is too much.

I hope that dvdo (again) agrees and for example also offer this discount to members of this forum who don't want to order at avs (since we want to support local dealers dvdo) for a limited time/number. I am talking about the $400 discount not the $250 extra handling/support/taxes.

I know this sounds very demanding and its not really about the money but the feeling part of the members get everytime it happens simply because they live outside the states.

Let me also add that everytime something like this happens dvdo solved it everytime for me.

Daniel.

Does anyone know if the AVS deal is available to Canadian AVS members?

will the VP50 have audio lip sinc control on each input and are the audio dropouts that plague the VP0 being addressed

will the VP50 have audio lip sinc control on each input
Yep, as per other VPx0 models.

are the audio dropouts that plague the VP0 being addressed
I think any remaining audio problems are about to be addressed for entire VPx0 family. :)

StooMonster

will the VP50 have audio lip sinc control on each input and are the audio dropouts that plague the VP0 being addressed

Yes and not only that the delay will not be a constant but will automaticly adjusted depending on what the unit is doing (for example game mode vs video deinterlacing).

Daniel.

Yes and not only that the delay will not be a constant but will automaticly adjusted depending on what the unit is doing (for example game mode vs video deinterlacing).

Daniel.
Maybe I'm being thick here, but how does that differ from the vp30?

Are you saying that if you don't use Auto, but set a fixed delay, then an adjustment will be made to your selection based on processing workload?

Ive talked to dvdo several times over this in the last few years. I think there are 2 issues you should not mix.

1) the $250 extra cost, this is mostly for higher taxes/handling and local dealer support. If they calc it out for you it becomes clear that this is very fair.

2) the 'special' relation that avs has with the company results in a even better deal. This is ofcourse is partly the work of Jason and others but also partly its done to 'support' the community of active users on the board.

The problem with point 2 is that 'we' feel we are all part of the same community and feel that a gap of this time again $650 between the rest of the world and if you live in the states is too much.

I hope that dvdo (again) agrees and for example also offer this discount to members of this forum who don't want to order at avs (since we want to support local dealers dvdo) for a limited time/number. I am talking about the $400 discount not the $250 extra handling/support/taxes.

I know this sounds very demanding and its not really about the money but the feeling part of the members get everytime it happens simply because they live outside the states.

Let me also add that everytime something like this happens dvdo solved it everytime for me.

Daniel.
What benefit is there for your local dealer if DVDO forces them to honour a $400 discount? I'm assuming you're not suggesting DVDO takes a $400 hit while still giving the dealer their usual margin?


in the end it is still me who has to pay for additional taxes and custom fees - not DVDO.
This is not true afaik. The $250 covers shipping to your country and applicable duty & taxes. In my case, that's quite a bit less than I'd have to pay for a $3000 unit shipped direct to me.

What benefit is there for your local dealer if DVDO forces them to honour a $400 discount? I'm assuming you're not suggesting DVDO takes a $400 hit while still giving the dealer their usual margin?


This is not true afaik. The $250 covers shipping to your country and applicable duty & taxes. In my case, that's quite a bit less than I'd have to pay for a $3000 unit shipped direct to me.

It was not my point to talk about right or wrong, just that the effect you now indeed get is that people will order directly from avs instead of using the dealer network they setup which is a pity if you ask me. What i think people are saying (including me) is that they should be careful to not give non-usa members the feeling of lesser people in this community.

Daniel.

I just placed my order! Thanks DVDO and AVS! :)

It was not my point to talk about right or wrong, just that the effect you now indeed get is that people will order directly from avs instead of using the dealer network they setup which is a pity if you ask me. What i think people are saying (including me) is that they should be careful to not give non-usa members the feeling of lesser people in this community.

Daniel.
I think if people look at the facts, then there's no reason to feel like 2nd class customers at all.

In fact, quite the reverse, I don't know of many (any?) other companies who would offer a similar service, precisely for fear of alienating their distributor network who they clearly depend on to handle the returns for ugprades, let alone the normal channel activities they provide in their markets.

I don't know what deal DVDO have setup with their distis but one expects that they get compensated somehow, in addition to the advocacy it generates in the market to bring in new customers.

I don't know what deal DVDO have setup with their distis but one expects that they get compensated somehow, in addition to the advocacy it generates in the market to bring in new customers.

This is a very good point.

I would never have bought my VP30+SDI+ABT102 from one of the official resellers in the first place were it not for the fact that I was hoping at some time in the future to get a decent trade-in deal on it. Indeed, it was the reputation of great trade-in deals that steerd me towards DVDO as a company in the first place.

Welcome and thanks to you all!

Yes indeed. And considering you are getting a $2000 credit for it, I know many customers didn't even pay that originally! :)

I feel like Crazy Eddy...these prices are INSANE!!! :)


Don't you dare bash any baby seals! :eek: :p

Doh! :)

Josh,

Could you explain what the difference is between the per-pixel motion adaptive deinterlacing done by other processessors and the ABT 5-field motion adaptive deinterlacing?

I assume you don't do per-pixel or your release would have stated so.

I'd appreciate a quick answer as I'd like to get in on the bargains this week.

Thanks.

1. Does this deinterlace 1080i over component? The table on the website says it ony deinterlaces 1080i over HDMI, and only scales 1080i over component... is this true?

2. I know there is an optional SDI input module, but are there plans in the works for a HD-SDI input module?

3. It can output 1080p but at what refresh rates?? Can it do 72/75Hz?

Factory trade-ins get more of the new product out into the market place faster to get more raves.

Each dealer can also offer trade-ins of his own choosing, independently.
Could you explain what the difference is between the per-pixel motion adaptive deinterlacing done by other processessors and the ABT 5-field motion adaptive deinterlacing?.
Same thing. ABT uses five consecutive fields' worth of video to better determine what is moving subject matter requiring interpolation and what is stationary subject matter requiring weaving (definition of motion adaptiveness). Most other brands use fewer fields which leads to more misjudgments resulting in more scattered combing of moving subjects and more scattered unnecessary blur of stationary subjects. Per-pixel means that the processor, including this one and including all good ones, can and does switch between bob and weave many times per scan line and anywhere along each scan line. I think "per-pixel" is somebody's trademark. Contrasted with bobbing the entire frame if more than a certain amount of motion is detected in which case the entire picture seems to blur when something starts moving (method not unheard of).

Don't you dare bash any baby seals! :eek: :p
OT: Recent news item from China: After three people got rabies, tens of thousands of stray dogs were rounded up and executed, some on the spot by being clubbed over the head. How much meat was harvested and how many furs were sold was not disclosed.

I'm really having a tough debate on this one. The offer is better than I could've imagine but i'm waying that against what performance gains I can really expect. I have an Optoma H79 and it seems to me that the only thing I will really gain is better scaling of 1080i to 720p, but how much of a difference will it really make. I think 1080i looks really good on my display to begin with. Is there anything else i'm missing? I need more than that to justify this to myself and ESPECIALLY my wife.

I'm really having a tough debate on this one. The offer is better than I could've imagine but i'm waying that against what performance gains I can really expect. I have an Optoma H79 and it seems to me that the only thing I will really gain is better scaling of 1080i to 720p, but how much of a difference will it really make. I think 1080i looks really good on my display to begin with. Is there anything else i'm missing? I need more than that to justify this to myself and ESPECIALLY my wife.
WRT justifying to SWMBO, it really is a no-brainer. I'm simply going to tweak the settings of mine a few days before the VP50 is due to arrive, let SWMBO comment on the fact that something's clearly wrong, agree with her, tell her I'm going to complain, and then say "you were right darling - they've admitted there's a manufacturing fault, and have agreed to send me a replacement".

;)

seems to me that the only thing I will really gain is better scaling of 1080i to 720p, but how much of a difference will it really make. I think 1080i looks really good on my display to begin with. .
1080i bobbed to 720p is not a total reduction to 540 lines of resultion, if the processing staggers the video frames made from the even fields as does that of the VP30.

The visual difference is going to be subjective, and probably only determined after audition.

The VP50, I believe, will mainly hit the 1080p display market.

OT: Recent news item from China: After three people got rabies, tens of thousands of stray dogs were rounded up and executed, some on the spot by being clubbed over the head. How much meat was harvested and how many furs were sold was not disclosed.

:(

1. Does this deinterlace 1080i over component? The table on the website says it ony deinterlaces 1080i over HDMI, and only scales 1080i over component... is this true?

I'd really like to know this too and I think it was mentioned elsewhere but don't think it's been answered yet.

Err, hang on - what table? I can't find one that says that. and it says "HD Analog processing and transcoding" which implies full processing to me.

(p.s. it wasn't just stray dogs although I appreciate that doesn't impact the humour or otherwise of the joke)

Err, hang on - what table? I can't find one that says that. and it says "HD Analog processing and transcoding" which implies full processing to me.

The product comparison table : http://www.dvdo.com/pro/pro_cf.php

The product comparison table : http://www.dvdo.com/pro/pro_cf.php
Ta.

That better be a typo ;)

Hope its a typo as under analog audio inputs it says 2 pairs whereas it only has one pair of inputs. Not being able to deinterlace/scale analog 1080i will be a gross oversight. Hope somebody from DVDO can clarify that.

I've PMed Josh.

Thanks everyone for the great AVS trade-in program. I have already sent in my order for the VP30.

A question for Josh: Will the IR codes be the same for the VP50 as they were for the VP30? Just wondering if I will be reprogramming my univeresal remote when the VP50 arrives.

Thanks.

Scott

The trade in program is indeed a great deal! How refreshing to see a company take care of it's customers and reward them for they loyalty. Bravo!

I will definitely be taking advantage of this offer. One question for all of you, can the SDI module that I have installed on my VP30 be used with the VP50?

Regards,
Nisi

SDI module is the same, yes Nisi

what won't be the same is the HD-SDI module Josh mentioned :eek:

that would be a dream ;)

-Gary

I will be using the VP50 to deinterlace HD-DVD through HDMI. My audio is hooked up by the 6 channel analog output. Will the VP50 be able to deinterlace in real time so I don't experience a delay.

That trade in deal is so tempting, I registered ! :D

William there will be a delay, VRS has a 3 frame delay max(per DVDO specs)

I would be in the same boat there, we need Toshiba to add a delay feature, because no pre-amps/receivers that I know of can put a lip sync delay on the 8 channel input

and obviously the VP50 can't do anything to the 8 channel analog audio

-Gary

William there will be a delay, VRS has a 3 frame delay max(per DVDO specs)

I would be in the same boat there, we need Toshiba to add a delay feature, because no pre-amps/receivers that I know of can put a lip sync delay on the 8 channel input

and obviously the VP50 can't do anything to the 8 channel analog audio

-Gary
With the source being film based there is no need to look 3 frames ahead. I there should be a way to limit that feature. Does 3 frames equal about 20 milliseconds? that might be tolerable. If so then the VP50 may be a downgrade from the field scaling VP30.

I believe each frame accounts for approx 17 msec. of delay for NTSC. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Does this deinterlace 1080i over component? The table on the website says it ony deinterlaces 1080i over HDMI, and only scales 1080i over component... is this true?


This is a mistake that will be corrected. The iScan VP50 can deinterlace and then scale a 1080i input signal on the component input.

With the source being film based there is no need to look 3 frames ahead.

They don't know what the source is you are watching. They are always looking for bad edits, mixed content, video, etc...

This is a mistake that will be corrected. The iScan VP50 can deinterlace and then scale a 1080i input signal on the component input.
Awesome. Thanks :D

SDI module is the same, yes Nisi

what won't be the same is the HD-SDI module Josh mentioned :eek:

that would be a dream ;)

-Gary

I'm excited about the potential, but there's still a dearth of HDSDI sources. Nobody's yet released any HDSDI mods yet, correct? Or has the situation changed recently?

- Collin

I'm waffling with regard to buying a VP50. I currently have a VP30 w/ABT102. My display accepts up to 1080i and then scales to 1080p. DirecTv pseudo HD looks very good and SD is acceptable after the ABT102 works on it. DVD's look very good.

I've written code for more years than I like to admit. I turn that side of me off at the end of the day so I'm not deep into the technical part of HT, burned out I guess. With that in mind, what added value would the VP50 offer someone like me? I guess that's the million dollar question isn't it? All I know is what I see and hear from my gear.

Thanks.

Hai,

I just ordered from the dvdo site, i hope i misunderstood that the deal Jason brokered is valid for all shippings. If so im really sorry for my comments and as i expected they either fixed it or i was wrong from the start.

It can get a little unclear at times with AVS vs AVS its no excuse so Jason, Josh and the others involved sorry if i overreacted avs/dvdo seems to be pulling a class act again.

Daniel.

So when can we start beta testing and sending in bugreports :)

Collin HD-SDI mods are being completed on the Toshiba HD-DVD players and the Samsung BR, I am also fairly certain of the D-VHS decks having the mods on them

I would need no less than 4 HD-SDI inputs :eek:

William there will be 3 frame delay, no way around that bud, the VP50 will not be a downgrade in anyway at all, much the opposite :)

-Gary

Has anyone of you had problems with the order process? I tried to order today morning (was probably one of the first), but it didn't went through. Mailed to DVDO, but no response yet.

Has anyone of you had problems with the order process? I tried to order today morning (was probably one of the first), but it didn't went through. Mailed to DVDO, but no response yet.

I ordered about 5min. ago international order totalled $2849. Has to enter SN (that seems changed, was not needed from what i gather before). Already got 2 auto-replies.

Daniel.

I ordered about 5min. ago international order totalled $2849. Has to enter SN (that seems changed, was not needed from what i gather before). Already got 2 auto-replies.
Tried again now. This is what I'm getting:

Order not processed

Your order could not be completed for the following reasons:

* CALL VOICE CENTER SGS-000002: R:Referral (call voice center)

Please contact us if you continue to have problems ordering.
Josh?

Since I had problems with online ordering this morning, put in a call to DVDO. They just got back to me, very helpful, I'm on the list. :) Bad news is - evidently I was playing the telephone game with these posts and my brain - salesman informed me that VP50s are shipping in 4 to 6 weeks. Which is about normal, but a lot further out than I had myself believing :o So - while there isn't much time to jump on the spl offer, once you get your orders in, you can chill out, and just hope they ship before the World Series.

ONLY downside for me - had hoped to get in on Ken's Midwest tuneup tour - but I imagine that the 50 is enough different than the 30, that I really should wait. Dang.

Upside? - salesman assured me (his words, not mine) that when I opened the box of my new VP50, no bugs would come flying out. :D

Jon on one hand I would say that the VP30 and 50 should be similiar but on the other I am picky

the thing is, is that Ken will whip your PJ into shape, the only thing that could be slightly different is the video levels when swapping in the VP50, this is something you can change yourself

Ken's full setup won't have anything to do with changing processors

if you can get Ken then get him ;)

-Gary

as we move towards universal HDMI support (don't laugh, please...) I see less and less use for HD-SDI for the home.

It's sad, since it's a much better platform than HDMI, but we should admit defeat and comply...

Sorry if i've missed some details, but am i right that if i trade in my VP30+ABT102 i get $1,600 off the price of the VP50?
$1,600 works out to about £847. I bought the unit 2 months ago and payed £1,345 + £345 for the card, so it's depreciated in value by about £745 in 2 months. Surely this is not right. Then i have to pay out about £750 on top to get the VP50. So to get the VP50 will have cost me about £2,440 or $4,603.
If i missed some info or i have just got it all completely wrong, can someone explain how it works.
Thank you.

I'm waffling with regard to buying a VP50. I currently have a VP30 w/ABT102. My display accepts up to 1080i and then scales to 1080p. . , what added value would the VP50 offer someone like me?.
Almost nothing. Your TV must accept 1080p in order for the superb ce-interlacing of the VP50 to show it's stuff. You might see some minor improvement with 1080i source to the VP50 outputting 720p to your TV which will scale the 720p to 1080p. None of the competition -- Lumagens, Faroudjas, Crystallios, etc. will do you much HD good either.

After looking at the specs, I feel that only 2 features are missing:

- Accepting 1080p/24 signals (for next gen HD-DVDs and BR players)

- Outputting 1080p/24sf for Qualia owners.

Are these 2 features in the pipeline?

Jay182 - while I'm not up on exchange rates, and have no idea where you even are, if you live in a locale where one would pay 2700 euros (pounds? ya got me) for a VP30, I would have to think you could resell it locally for maybe, what, 2000 euros? All I know is that relative to stateside prices, the upgrade is such that even I (a vocal VP30 whiner) am making the move. If they go for that much more over there, by all means, sell it on the open market. As Allan states above, for many folks, there is not a compelling reason to get a VP50, and your VP30 with ABT card should be emminently desireable on the secondary market.

Sorry if i've missed some details, but am i right that if i trade in my VP30+ABT102 i get $1,600 off the price of the VP50?
$1,600 works out to about £847. I bought the unit 2 months ago and payed £1,345 + £345 for the card, so it's depreciated in value by about £745 in 2 months. Surely this is not right. Then i have to pay out about £750 on top to get the VP50. So to get the VP50 will have cost me about £2,440 or $4,603.
If i missed some info or i have just got it all completely wrong, can someone explain how it works.
Thank you.
Well if you order including the AVS discount, you're about $400 wrong but I'm not sure if you took the extra $250 for the UK into account, so at worst your estimate is $150 too high.

Plus you paid quite a lot mate. I expect specific dealer prices are verbotten on here but I paid noticeably less than that for the vp30 back in Jan and got the abt102 as part of the intro offer at the time it was launched.

So my total price for the vp50 (plus 7 months of vp30 pleasure) is more like £1900 - just luck I guess.

Depending on your setup, sticking with the vp30 for now might be the right move? It's still a great box.

(pounds? ya got me)
Pounds Sterling Sir! Of the Queen's Realm! Cheek! ;)

as we move towards universal HDMI support (don't laugh, please...) I see less and less use for HD-SDI for the home.

It's sad, since it's a much better platform than HDMI, but we should admit defeat and comply...

If both hddvd and bluray players have been shown to support HDSDI and we have companies like DVDO supporting it as a format why do we have to comply ?

Daniel.

Sorry if i've missed some details, but am i right that if i trade in my VP30+ABT102 i get $1,600 off the price of the VP50?
$1,600 works out to about £847. I bought the unit 2 months ago and payed £1,345 + £345 for the card, so it's depreciated in value by about £745 in 2 months. Surely this is not right. Then i have to pay out about £750 on top to get the VP50. So to get the VP50 will have cost me about £2,440 or $4,603.
If i missed some info or i have just got it all completely wrong, can someone explain how it works.
Thank you.

I bought my VP30 just barely a month ago. I'm pleased with the trade in though the 4-6 weeks of use were pretty expensive. I bought it knowing I would get very good trade in value--otherwise I would have waited and in turn missed out seeing the beautiful things the VP30 could do with my SDI modded DVD player. :D

If both hddvd and bluray players have been shown to support HDSDI
The UK Sky HD receiver has also been successfully HD-SDI modded, AFAIK.

The UK Sky HD receiver has also been successfully HD-SDI modded, AFAIK.
Hmm, first I've heard of it? Is that on an experimental basis? Don't know of anyone selling a mod.

Hmm, first I've heard of it? Is that on an experimental basis? Don't know of anyone selling a mod.
I've read it somewhere, don't remember where exactly, sorry... :o

...William there will be 3 frame delay, no way around that bud, the VP50 will not be a downgrade in anyway at all, much the opposite :)

-Gary
Gary, are you getting the VP50 and how do you intend to deal with the video delay?

Josh or anyone:

1) Can you tell me in milliseconds what the delay will be so I can simulate it on my HTPC?

2) Can the VP50 use field scaling instead of deinterlacing?

William yes I will be getting a VP50 :) ;)
but I have not figured out how I will deal with this just yet :( :mad:

-Gary

After looking at the specs, I feel that only 2 features are missing:

- Accepting 1080p/24 signals (for next gen HD-DVDs and BR players)

It is very difficult to verify that this feature works when there are no consumer devices that output 1080p/24. Until this is verified, we won't claim that it is a feature. The functionality is there.

- Outputting 1080p/24sf for Qualia owners.

I have already commented on this several times.

I'm in on the AVS Upgrade deal! :D

Josh or anyone:

1) Can you tell me in milliseconds what the delay will be so I can simulate it on my HTPC?
1000 ms=1 second
1 second=60 frames

16.667ms=1 frame

The VP50 (unless set to "Game Mode 1" or "Game Mode 2" has a little more than 3 frames of delay (deinterlacing is 3 frame + scaling/frame rate conversion, which is less than 1 frame).

2) Can the VP50 use field scaling instead of deinterlacing?

I am confused why one would purchase a VP50 and then use field scaling, especially if they already have a VP30. Can you explain?

I ordered about 5min. ago international order totalled $2849. Has to enter SN (that seems changed, was not needed from what i gather before). Already got 2 auto-replies.

Daniel.
Are you sure that the $2849 covers your vat and not just your import duty,I ask this,as I cant see how $250 could possably cover the vat on this sum

Are you sure that the $2849 covers your vat and not just your import duty,I ask this,as I cant see how $250 could possably cover the vat on this sum

$250 does not cover VAT, but does include shipping, handling, import duties and local support.

Ok, I'm still confused. It seems a lot of the buzz about the VP50 is the deinterlacing from 1080i to 1080p. But for me that is a non-issue since I would use the scaler to feed a plasma (1366 x 768). So I'd need it for SD,1080i, 720p scaling to 1366 x 768, and deinterlacing SD, and 1080i.

So does the VP50 give me anything more then getting the VP30?

Also, what does the SDI Module do as an add on for the VP30? The explanation on the web site talks about keeping the signal a digital. But if you have a newer DVD player with digital out do you need this?

One last question, the VRS Precision Deinterlacing Card add on to the VP30. Does this add a lot of improvement to the VP30? Because buying the VP30 plus this add on card is about the same price as the VP50 AVSForum members price. So that alone might make my decision easier.

Well if you order including the AVS discount, you're about $400 wrong but I'm not sure if you took the extra $250 for the UK into account, so at worst your estimate is $150 too high.

Plus you paid quite a lot mate. I expect specific dealer prices are verbotten on here but I paid noticeably less than that for the vp30 back in Jan and got the abt102 as part of the intro offer at the time it was launched.

So my total price for the vp50 (plus 7 months of vp30 pleasure) is more like £1900 - just luck I guess.

Depending on your setup, sticking with the vp30 for now might be the right move? It's still a great box.


I missed the deal on the abt card, so had to pay full price. How do you use the AVS discount?
I guess i'd be better of selling it private, i'd get a better price i guess.
I'm very happy with the VP30, but as i have an HD-DVD player and SkyHD i guess it makes sense to upgrade.
Oh i'm in the UK btw.

1000 ms=1 second
1 second=60 frames

16.667ms=1 frame

The VP50 (unless set to "Game Mode 1" or "Game Mode 2" has a little more than 3 frames of delay (deinterlacing is 3 frame + scaling/frame rate conversion, which is less than 1 frame).



I am confused why one would purchase a VP50 and then use field scaling, especially if they already have a VP30. Can you explain?
I would only use field scaling if the delay is intolerable. I will update my receiver in about 6 to 12 months with HDMI audio. I waiting for 2 reasons. 1) Financial: Just bought an expensive projector, a HD-DVD player, and DVDO scaler. 2) Technical: I'm waiting for HDMI 1.3. I also plan to upgrade to a VP70 next year so please add 6 HDMI 1.3 inputs and 2 HDMI 1.3 outputs (one for dedicated audio). ;)

Also I'm looking at about 1/2 a second delay? (16.667x3.5=58.335ms)

Does setting to game mode eliminate the delay and if so does it still do deinterlacing? Just not look ahead deinterlacing.

Hmm, first I've heard of it? Is that on an experimental basis? Don't know of anyone selling a mod.
http://www.pixelmagicforum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9240&postcount=22

It's the same chap who's doing the Toshiba HD DVD's HD-SDI mod.

StooMonster

Also I'm looking at about 1/2 a second delay? (16.667x3.5=58.335ms)

500 ms is 1/2 second you are looking at 1/10 of that

Kafka you do need the VP50 and it will increase your picture quality alot, why?

because the VP50 will take the 1080i input and convert that to the highest quality possible 1080p, then the VP50 will scale that to 768p which your display needs and you will have a much better image than your plasma converting 1080i to 768p, lord only knows what methods it uses

-Gary

Also I'm looking at about 1/2 a second delay? (16.667x3.5=58.335ms)
58.335/1000=0.058335 seconds
Does setting to game mode eliminate the delay and if so does it still do deinterlacing? Just not look ahead deinterlacing.
Game Mode 1 has less than 1 frame of delay with edge adpative processing, but no motion adaptive processing.

It is very difficult to verify that this feature works when there are no consumer devices that output 1080p/24. Until this is verified, we won't claim that it is a feature. The functionality is there.
Isn't VP50 a "consumer devices that output 1080p/24"? Couldn't you plug one VP50 into another to test. ;)

My Pioneer 1080p 50-inch plasma accepts 1080p/24 -- so I am very much looking forward to seeing 1080p/24 output from VP50. :D


StooMonster

Stoo, good idea on the 24p in and out. Of course that only confirms their implementation.

I think there is some confusion around the delay. This is not new. The Teranex has 7 frames of delay. All video processors introduce delay. This includes SiI50n, FLI22nn, FLI23nn, HQV, Gennum, Genesis, etc...

I think the data sheet was to promote the 3 frame as a strength. :)

Thanks Gary, but what I really wanted to know was how much improvement I'd get with getting the VP50 over the VP30 for a non 1080p display. A cost benifit ratio if you will :) .

Kafka to give a good idea I would have to know the process and quality of the entire process your plasma uses to get 768p from 1080i

you will see benefit for sure, how much or how much it is worth would be a good question

you don't need 1080p to see the benefit of the VP50, your display situation is exactly one the VP50 can better if you watch lots of 1080i :)

-Gary

Jay182 - ... I would have to think you could resell it locally for maybe, what, 2000 euros? ... If they go for that much more over there, by all means, sell it on the open market.

How might the value of VP30/ABT102 on the open market be affected by the DVDO/AVS trade-in offer? I would have thought the open market 2nd hand price would be about the DVDO/AVS trade-in price, or less. And after the trade-in offer runs out, what happens to all those traded units? I'm sure some will end up scrapped for spares, but if the bulk of them get a factory refresh job might they end up being flogged off by AudioAdvisor at a big discount to the new list price? That would probably make the 2nd hand price on the open market much less than the DVDO/AVS trade-in price being offered today.

As for the price Jay182 paid for his VP30/ABT102 being much more than the DVDO/AVS trade-in price, I can tell the forum my VP30/ABT102 was bought new and it cost me exactly what they are now offering as a trade-in, so I'm happy about the deal. If I were to trade in my VP30/ABT102 in effect it has cost me almost nothing, my total investment will be the list price of a new VP50, plus the $250USD premium for International upgrade. Mind you, my VP30 was a big disappointment as it has never worked properly, and I say that based on the fact that the PQ I get feeding the source direct to the PE8720 is ALWAYS better than when passing the same signal through the VP30 for processing (however my VP30 never experienced the audio drop-out problem).

As for what Josh@DVDO says about the $250 USD breakdown being to cover import duties (plus shipping, local support etc) and not VAT, how do Australian customers fare in this regard, does DVDO cover our import duties or not? Or is the import duty not related to importing a new VP50, but to cover import duty on VP30's being returned to the US?

Isn't VP50 a "consumer devices that output 1080p/24"? Couldn't you plug one VP50 into another to test. ;)


That is exactly what we have done, but it is the HD-DVD and BD players outputting 1080p-24 that our customers will be connecting to a VP50 and until we can connect one of these consumer devices, we can not say with 100% certainty that they will work.

Will this piece output 1080P24sF?

Thanks for answering my PM questions for me Josh. Your "guess" was enough for me. ;)

I have ordered mine! :)

Just want to make sure of something here... my credit card has already been charged the US$2599+$250 for international. (I thought this wouldn't be charged until they have shipped? Not to worry) So once I receive the VP50, I just send my VP30+ABT102 to my local distributor in Australia, and they or you will credit me the US$1600??

$250 does not cover VAT...
Most U.S. buyers pay sales tax on local purchases, or owe use tax on out of state purchases. These taxes resemble VAT. These taxes are not included in the purchase price.

Persons moving to the U.S. declare goods made in the U.S. and brought back (repatriated) with them and no import duty is owed to the U.S.

58.335/1000=0.058335 seconds

Game Mode 1 has less than 1 frame of delay with edge adpative processing, but no motion adaptive processing.
It looks like I had my decimal point in the wrong place. 1/20 of a second should not be very noticeable. Plus I can use game mode because you don't need motion vectoring with 1080i film. Thanks, Josh I feel much better. :)

That is exactly what we have done, but it is the HD-DVD and BD players outputting 1080p-24 that our customers will be connecting to a VP50 and until we can connect one of these consumer devices, we can not say with 100% certainty that they will work.
never mind

William, if you use game mode on films, you are throwing away 50% of your vertical resolution.

Gullibel: I am in a similar situation having also paid the same amount for my new vp-30 and abt card as the trade in. However, I am taking a different path then you.

I am selling my vp-30 on the used market for the same price I paid for it. because there are people like you and I who bought it "right" we can sell it at little to no loss.

Rather than trade it in towards full retail or even towards the AVS price, I will contact the source who originally sold me the VP-30 at a great price and purchase the vp-50 at a great price.

From what I have been told, I can buy the vp-50 for far less than retail or the AVS price and instead of having to lay $1000 out of pocket I will only have to lay out about $500 or less.

Thats what im doing and I have spent a good amount of time analyzing the math and it works better to sell it for cash..for me anyway.

What has been said regarding 1080/24PsF is that it will not output this upon release. They also said that they do not comment on features not yet available for this processor. I get the impression they could add 1080/24PsF output at some point after release, and that this feature is somewhat important to them.

If I had to guess I would say they will add 1080/24PsF output at some point after release, but are not committing to anything since it's so early in the products life, as in not yet released.

I'm sort of on the fence too about this, the processor is VERY attractive to me, but I don't really want it without 1080/24PsF output. I THINK they will add it, but no one knows for sure.

William, if you use game mode on films, you are throwing away 50% of your vertical resolution.
Why does it field scan or deinterlace in game mode? At 1/20 of a second I should be fine with standard de interlacing though.

Even in field scanning you don't actually loose vertical resolution information. You just gain some (1/2 of a field) fake vertical information.

Thanks for answering my PM questions for me Josh. Your "guess" was enough for me. ;)

I have ordered mine! :)

Just want to make sure of something here... my credit card has already been charged the US$2599+$250 for international. (I thought this wouldn't be charged until they have shipped? Not to worry) So once I receive the VP50, I just send my VP30+ABT102 to my local distributor in Australia, and they or you will credit me the US$1600??

What happend last time for me was that the local dealer made a photo of the unit and send that to dvdo the money was then returned to my cc the next day.

Daniel.

William, if you use game mode on films, you are throwing away 50% of your vertical resolution.
Why? It still does edge detection.


VAT comment from Josh

Interesting. VAT on this in the UK is in the order of $600 if it's marked as having $3000 value and it's usually added to an item at customs and extracted from the recipient by HMGovt rapidly and painfully, so are these being shipped direct from DVDO internationally, not via local distis? This could be quite a bit more expensive than I thought.

They would also normally add duty at that point, so I don't quite see how paying DVDO $250 is going to stop them doing that, could you clarify Josh? Thx.

Interesting. VAT on this in the UK is in the order of $600 if it's marked as having $3000 value and it's usually added to an item at customs and extracted from the recipient by HMGovt rapidly and painfully, so are these being shipped direct from DVDO internationally, not via local distis? This could be quite a bit more expensive than I thought.

I should have been more clear, VAT is not covered by DVDO. You need to check with your local distributor to find out specifics in your country.

I should have been more clear, VAT is not covered by DVDO. You need to check with your local distributor to find out specifics in your country.
Will do. Will ask them about the duty thing too, thanks.

William there is a workaround for the delay stuff and this is the best I can come up with, on your receiver or pre-amp you can set your speaker distances longer to the point where the analog input is delayed and matches the VP50 delay

just keep the calibrated levels the same for your speakers, like if your current setup is 12 feet for the Front L, 13 Feet for the Front Center and 12 Feet for the Front R, adjust to say 21 Feet for the Front L, 22 Feet for the Front Center, 21 Feet for the Front Right

just a example of course

you would then need to adjust lip sync in a negative fashion on the digital inputs on the VP50 for your other sources, hopefully there would be enough to match things back up, Josh can the VP30/50 set it's Lip Sync audio to no delay with the negative adjustment? I don't know the numbers exactly but taking the Negative delay all the way to the left on the Lip Syne adjustment should be no delay on the audio and should then match back up perfectly to the video

or you can forget the VP30/50 audio wise and route all sources to the receiver/pre-amp now that it is delayed, the audio thru the VP30/50 would be the better option though to me as you have adjustment

-Gary

Hmmm - this is a little wierd. The units are shipped to us from the local disti - not directly from DVDO. I'll get in touch with our local disti, and check in with Baptiste at DVDO, who's the international guy there.

$250 does not cover VAT, but does include shipping, handling, import duties and local support.
So the true cost of the vp50 in the uk is $2849 plus vat @17.5%=$3347 thats more like it.

So the true cost of the vp50 in the uk is $2849 plus vat @17.5%=$3347 thats more like it.

Let's wait for a definitive answer from the local disti (Owl) and the international guy @ DVDO (Baptiste). When I upgraded to my VP30, the unit was shipped by DVDO to Owl and then from Owl to me - i.e. it's not direct - it's UK supplied, but paid for in the US.

Let's wait for a definitive answer from the local disti (Owl) and the international guy @ DVDO (Baptiste). When I upgraded to my VP30, the unit was shipped by DVDO to Owl and then from Owl to me - i.e. it's not direct - it's UK supplied, but paid for in the US.
The unit will have to be charged import duty and vat total 20% irrespective of where and how the unit is delivered