My cable company now provides the cable card. What are the pros and cons?

:confused:

probalby a slightly better picture quality from the cable card. One less box in your setup. Cable cards tend to have less troubleshooting support from cable company. No on demand either.

Pro: No Box
Cons: No On Demand or SDV channels, I'm sure there are more.

Cons:

No cable provided on screen guide (TV must provide this)
TV provided guides are sometimes terrible (TV Guide one sucks)
No DVR

Pros:

No Box
No extra remote

Pro:
Most importantly, better PQ than STB
Convenience
Saves space
Most CC TVs have a recording system built in, just hook up a VCR and tape any program (not in HD however)

Con:
Doesn't always work.
Most service guys have neve seen them and don't know anything about them.
Most likely will take multiple visits from cable guys (a real pain) to get it to work if at all.
No VOD or PPV (I don't care about that).

Thoughts:
If you have a CableCARD capable TV, I would get it. If it doesn't work, you can always hook up a STB (yuck!). I have one in a Pioneer 5070, it works great!

Rick

The PQ on SD content is MUCH better via cablecard. I suggest getting a cablecard, even if you have a STB/DVR. You can have the best of both worlds this way.

I still have a DVR for watching recorded shows and on screen guide, but I watch all live content via cablecard due to the much clearer picture. I've had my cablecard for two years and would give up my HD DVR before letting go of the cablecard. The SD picture is that much better.

They have a HD Tivo coming out soon that has dual cable card capability. It has component and HDMI outputs and it sounds like the best solution for people that have cablecard TVs that want a HD DVR AND a better guide. (I like the Tivo guide)

Great replys!!

Hope some more people will join in. Is the Cable Card really the "Hidden Jewel" you describe?
What I am hearing is with the Cable Card I will only need the one hook up and get a better picture than using multiple connections for different sources. Is it really better than anHDMI or DVI from the set top box? What happens to sound? Will it recieve 5.1 Dolby?

Hope other reply. This sounds better than I thought it would?

Read this: CableCARDs - A Primer (http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/specsformats/CableCARDprimer.php)

I have been using a trouble-free CableCARD with my 50PX50U for more than a year and the TV renders a "slightly" better picture w/CableCARD (coax to antenna input) vs. an SA8300HD-DVR w/component connection. Neither source input renders as good a picture as it could if I didn't have to split the incoming coax cable to support both devices.

IMO an HD DVR is an essential part of any HT setup and I'm hoping the Series 3 TiVo will be the "panacea" we have all been looking for that combines better HD technology (e.g. tuner, mpeg decoder, and deinterlacer/scaler) than what is built into a 4-year-old SA8300, with CableCARD/M-Card content authorization.

pretty informative thread, good going man

The PQ on SD content is MUCH better via cablecard. I suggest getting a cablecard, even if you have a STB/DVR. You can have the best of both worlds this way.

Wow, shows you how dumb I am. I thought that if you had a Cable Card you couldn't have a cable box/DVR hooked at the same time. So, if I wanted to, I could keep my Time Warner Cable-supplied cable box/DVR and also get a cable card to get the best PQ when watching live TV? Of course TWC would love to bill me for more items but if it means better PQ while watching SD or HD I'd bite.

Eh, what's an extra $1.75 per month to lease a CableCARD? I'm more inclined to drop Showtime & TMC as well as on-Demand service because these channels content being carried by Time Warner has been so shabby lately.

Has anyone tried using a CableCard in conjunction with digital cable music channels? I recently contacted my cable company (Comcast) with some CableCard functionality questions. One of the things they said was that the digital music channels are not available if a CableCard is used instead of a set-top box. Has anybody encountered this issue? I don't see any reason why the music channels would not work with a CableCard, since they do not require two-way communication, like an on-demand program. They should be treated as one-way digital channels, just like any other digital cable channel. At least that is my understanding.

Wow, shows you how dumb I am. I thought that if you had a Cable Card you couldn't have a cable box/DVR hooked at the same time. So, if I wanted to, I could keep my Time Warner Cable-supplied cable box/DVR and also get a cable card to get the best PQ when watching live TV? Of course TWC would love to bill me for more items but if it means better PQ while watching SD or HD I'd bite.
No, you are not dumb. My neighbor actually had a TWC cable guy say to her that she couldn't have a CableCARD and a STB connected to her TV (at my suggestion) because it would overload their system!!! MOST cable employees don't know ANYTHING about what they do.

Of course you can have both! And yes, it should only cost around $1.75 extra for the CC. Check out the TWC website in your area for exact pricing.

Rick

Has anyone tried using a CableCard in conjunction with digital cable music channels?
I can tune to the TWC NYC digital music channels, no problem! I guess as long as they're not interactive I don't see why they shouldn't work as long as they are included in your digital package.

Rick

Another Pro is that CableCards usually cost less than STBs. For me at least (Comcast in Chicago Suburbs) the CableCard was a one time installation charge of $30, which is still a bit of a rip since all the idiot technician did was come over and hand me the card, I had to install it and get all the information he needed. This opposed to having to pay $10 a month for an HD box. We already have one set top box (the one Comcast gives you for free) set up on a non-HD TV, so I can get all my On Demand stuff on that TV, so I don't feel like I'm missing anything with the CableCard. The only problem I had was that most of the channels didn't come in when it was first installed. Comcast then sent out a semi-competent technician who figured out that the signal to the room in which I had the HDTV was very weak. A little makeshift rewiring and everythings worked perfectly since. I'm very happy with it and can't wait till they come out with the 2-way CableCards they are supposedly designing, even though it will mean a new TV. I just really dislike the STB, needing an extra remote and how it makes the channels look slightly worse.

Eh, what's an extra $1.75 per month to lease a CableCARD? I'm more inclined to drop Showtime & TMC as well as on-Demand service because these channels content being carried by Time Warner has been so shabby lately.

Here in the Bay Area, Comcast charges $6.95 for the CC and $9.95 for the DVR. Still I prefer not having the extra box and remote.

Cheers,
Spyder

I can tune to the TWC NYC digital music channels, no problem! I guess as long as they're not interactive I don't see why they shouldn't work as long as they are included in your digital package.

Rick

Thanks for the info on this, Rickw2. I appreciate it.

Another con... for SD my 50PX50U only supports 480i w/CableCARD while 480p actually looks better w/SA8300.

Neither source input renders as good a picture as it could if I didn't have to split the incoming coax cable to support both devices.

I have Comcast coming out to install a CableCARD alongside an SA 3100HD cable box, and I was hoping to connect the card via coax out from the cable box (main coax from wall to cable box). Are you saying this won't work? I'd hate to have to split the line....

How about running coax cable from the wall to the tv (for cablecard); then from tv out to the cable box; and back to the tv via component/s-vid. Would that work for a dual install (box + card)?

I'm also wondering now whether the Pioneer 6071 will support 480p via the cablecard/coax.

I have cable card from Adelphia and can get digital music channels. I got the channels without the card, also, with no subscription to digital cable.

just a little tip: If establishing new service, you're better off getting the cablecard first. If you already have a DVR/STB they're more likely to give up if there are problems (besides, they make more $ off the DVR/STB). I was insistant that I would only have a cablecard and they finally got mine working properly. Then, I picked up the DVR.

How about running coax cable from the wall to the tv (for cablecard); then from tv out to the cable box; and back to the tv via component/s-vid. Would that work for a dual install (box + card)?
Split the cable, what are you worried about? With digital cable you won't see any difference!

Rick

So, as luck would have it, I was minding my own business watching US Open Tennis on Universal HD when the picture went blank! ALL my cable channels went dark. This was the case with my first CableCARD (the one I'm using now is my second), I got the broadcast channels in SD and HD but no cable channels.

I called TWC, they "hit" the card, I turned off the 5070, pulled the CC, turned on the set, reseated the CC, turned off the set, turned it back on to reboot the card. All is well!

The moral of the story is: be prepared to do this sort of stuff when you have a CC. I STILL think it's worth it (even though I was cursing out the CC and TWC today). If the "hit" didn't work, I was ready to march over to the cable company and pick up a STB/DVR. I still might get a DVR, but I want to keep the CC.

Rick

Split the cable, what are you worried about? With digital cable you won't see any difference!

RickNot true. There is always signal loss and increased noise each time the cable is split.

Of course there is a signal loss. Digital will either work or not work in most cases regardless. So long as it is above the tolerance of a steady stream there should be no problem. DC does not use an exceptional amount of bandwidth. Now, analog on the other hand could be ugly if the splits are poorly done.

Not true. There is always signal loss and increased noise each time the cable is split.
I never said there wouldn't be any signal loss, I said with digital cable you won't see any difference. Having tried it with and without a split (for VCRs, yeah I'm still using VCRs), my statement comes from personal experience.

Rick

I never said there wouldn't be any signal loss, I said with digital cable you won't see any difference. Having tried it with and without a split (for VCRs, yeah I'm still using VCRs), my statement comes from personal experience.

RickSo you see no difference in the picture rendered when running a home run from the ground block to the antenna input of your DTV versus (in my case) a cable that has been split in half two times, causing an insertion loss of 3.5dB & 3.5dB, before reaching the TV? :confused:

I suppose YMMV based upon how good the signal strength and noise isolation may be to begin with. In my case, my home is ~200' from the road at which point the buried coax enters the dwelling.

I have Adelphia/Time Warner digital cable for internet and digital TV. Yesterday they came out to install my cable card and DVR for my new Plasma (the house now has a total of 6 cable boxes/DVRs/internet connections all split from the single lead from street). For a long time now, I've had issues with my internet being very slow to load up and would get error messages when checking for e-mail. I mentioned this to cable guy, and he checked the line strengths and found I had piss poor signal to all the lines, but especially the primary internet connection. He ended installing a booster at the main entry point, as well as the weakest branch (the internet connection). My internet is now significantly faster, I can't tell much though with regards to the PQ of my TVs though.

So you see no difference in the picture rendered when running a home run from the ground block to the antenna input of your DTV versus (in my case) a cable that has been split in half two times, causing an insertion loss of 3.5dB & 3.5dB, before reaching the TV?
As was mentioned above, digital cable depends on a buffered bit stream to render the audio and video. As long as all these bits make it to your cable card (or box) fast enough to keep the buffer from running empty, it doesn't matter how many times you split the signal. The bits are literally ones and zeros. Analog noise and signal level have no impact on the picture as long as the hardware can still decipher enough of the ones and zeros.

A good analogy is downloading a picture over the internet. The quality of the picture isn't affected by the quality of your internet connection and what all those bits were subjected to between the server and your desktop. You either get the whole picture or you don't.

That said, if you have marginal signal (or noise) levels, your card/box may have a hard time getting the bits fast enough. But when that happens, the picture problems usually aren't subtle. You're not going to see a loss of detail, color changes, more noise, etc. Instead, you're likely to see macroblocking, the picture freezing (or blanking), error messages, etc.

In other words, when digital cable doesn't have any obvious problems, that's as good as it's going to get for PQ. When there are problems, they're usually big ones that are hard to miss. If some of you think you see subtle improvements from removing a splitter, it's probably the placebo effect?

Back to Cable Card vs Set Top Boxes... The picture quality advantage of Cable Cards is related to their being connected to the TVs internal data bus. So the TV can keep the signal in whatever internal "native" format it uses rather than having to accept it, and convert it, from an external STB.

One other small advantage of Cable Cards is lower power consumption. The newer STBs seem to be getting better, but my old Motorola HD STB draws 28 watts (measured) even when it's turned OFF. That's about $20/year worth of electricity Not a huge deal, but it all adds up (especially if you have several TVs/boxes) and electric rates continue to climb.

I have Adelphia/Time Warner digital cable for internet and digital TV. Yesterday they came out to install my cable card and DVR for my new Plasma (the house now has a total of 6 cable boxes/DVRs/internet connections all split from the single lead from street). For a long time now, I've had issues with my internet being very slow to load up and would get error messages when checking for e-mail. I mentioned this to cable guy, and he checked the line strengths and found I had piss poor signal to all the lines, but especially the primary internet connection. He ended installing a booster at the main entry point, as well as the weakest branch (the internet connection). My internet is now significantly faster, I can't tell much though with regards to the PQ of my TVs though.Switch to DSL, my Time Warner Internet connection dropped out on a regular basis but I have not lost connectivity even once since switching to Verizon DSL about 12 months ago. DSL provides a dedicated connection from your home to the switch versus broadband where you share the same network segment with those in your area... which can lead to over saturation and poor Internet performance.Back to Cable Card vs Set Top Boxes... The picture quality advantage of Cable Cards is related to their being connected to the TVs internal data bus. So the TV can keep the signal in whatever internal "native" format it uses rather than having to accept it, and convert it, from an external STB.Nice technical response. ;) As Clint DeBoer asserts:

"The HUGE advantage comes in the picture quality. For those of you under the impression that the local cable company cares about quality and such things as accurate scaling, you are sorely mistaken. Local cable companies charge a small monthly fee (and usually no installation fee) for those utilizing their equipment. What this means is that they are concerned about features but certainly not about quality, since most of their customers are not aware of what they are missing.

CableCARDs allow the user to decrypt digital cable and use higher quality components to handle scaling and display of the cable channels. Mitsubishi showed off two televisions displaying standard definition cable channels side by side at the 2004 CEDIA Expo. One unit was displaying digital cable via a provided set-top box, the other was using CableCARD. The difference was astounding. The Mitsubishi's integrated scaler was of so much higher quality then the one provided by the cheap set-top cable box that clarity was improved, ghosting was dramatically reduced and (real) edge detail was preserved - so much so, that I wondered how I was conned into thinking that it was simply broadcast that way to begin with. THIS is why CableCARD is such a significant development.

The units that support CableCARD also support reception of analogue HDTV signals via antenna, so be sure to get most of your over-the-air HDTV using that method whenever possible as it will far exceed the quality of compressed cable programming."

That said, if you have marginal signal (or noise) levels, your card/box may have a hard time getting the bits fast enough. But when that happens, the picture problems usually aren't subtle. You're not going to see a loss of detail, color changes, more noise, etc. Instead, you're likely to see macroblocking, the picture freezing (or blanking), error messages, etc.


Just for the record, since a few of you have been discussing splitting as discussed with respect to my cableCARD/cable box dual installation question, the macroblocking and picture freezing problems are exactly what we got when we used a splitter at installation. The Comcast tech used a 3-way splitter since we also have broadband internet with them, with the feeds out going to the cable box, the cableCARD and the cable modem. The splitter (Extron?) outputs were -3.5/-3.5/-7.0 (I think), and initially he had the -7.0 feed going to the cable box, but that produced the problems, so he switched it with the cable modem feed.

That cleared up the picture problems -- unfortunately, I discovered later that the cable modem didn't like the -7.0 output either, as internet performance ground just about to a halt. I eventually decided to try a Motorola signal booster that I bought at Circuit City, and it really seems to have done the trick. Everything is acting fat and happy now.

Now if only Comcast could get the freaking cableCARD to work properly. :mad: It receives analog SD and network HD channels just fine, but won't display any digital channels (SD or HD). I've spent way too much time on the phone with Comcast service reps and their supervisors, and still nothing has changed. They can't seem to figure out the problem; looks like I'll have to schedule another tech visit. Grrrrr!

Does anyone know if you can use a cablecard and then forward the signal (for the digital channels) from the TV to a ReplayTV or similar PVR?

OK, this might be a dumb question, but can the cable card work with Satellite?

OK, this might be a dumb question, but can the cable card work with Satellite?

No, that's why it's called a cable card ;)

for me in the (Atlanta Metro area) the picture quality did improve after installing the cable card. It was a product of switching to Comcast's digital feed vs. their analog feed. In my market you cant get "basic expanded cable" on analog or digital. comcast signal strength in my apartment complex is terrible, some of the channels above 68 seem to get some static in the picture when viewed with an analog tuner (bedroomd SDTV or analog tuner in HDTV)

when i insert the CC in my HD-set the same channels are static free. i verify this by the fact that my PIP function will only show 3 channels on the secondary viewing panel. without the CC channels 1-78 (analog) are viewible with PIP.

when i plug in the digital box on my bedroom tv there is no static on said channels. as stated earlier all you need with digital is enough of the bit stream to reach your set and the PQ will be as good as it gets.

my biggest gripe with Comcast is the lack of "good" HD content.
currently i can get NBC, ABC, CBS, *UPN*, FOX ,TBS for free via OTA and unencrypted via QAM in Hi-Def. the only thing that my subscription (digital starter/classic w/promo HBO) adds is TNT, DISC, INHD, ESPN1, ESPN2, HBO.

Looking into a new plasma with a cable card.
Someone here stated that with a Cable card you cannot get ON Demand. I have comcast in the philly area. Is this turn?

ZSO

Can you get the premium channels (HD and movies) through the cablecard?

you can get premium channels with a cablecard (if you pay for them). You cannot get any pay per view.

you can get premium channels with a cablecard (if you pay for them). You cannot get any pay per view.

Uh...I wouldn't say it that way. You could always phone in the PPV request. :D

I have TWC in the Raleigh, NC area and have a couple of questions. If I use the CableCard vs STB:

1) Is there a TV Guide channel?
2) Are all local HD stations mapped to cable channels?

I have a Hitachi 42HDS69 television and currently have standard cable. As far as I can tell, the Guide button on the Hitachi remote is intended for use with a STB.

I have TWC in the Raleigh, NC area and have a couple of questions. If I use the CableCard vs STB:

1) Is there a TV Guide channel?
2) Are all local HD stations mapped to cable channels?

I have a Hitachi 42HDS69 television and currently have standard cable. As far as I can tell, the Guide button on the Hitachi remote is intended for use with a STB.
1.) My Sharp TV has the built in TV Guide and theres a logo on the front of the TV. When you hit the button on the remote does the guide come up on your TV? Should be the trademark TV Guide. If so yes the cablecard will work in conjuntion with the guide.

2.) Yes I get all HD channels on the cablecard and the listings through the TV Guide. The guide downloads through your local PBS analog channel. You have to have an analog PBS station on your cable system. I've heard also TV Guide is working on or come out with a digital guide.

My cablecard has worked for a year and a half now and I love it (most consumers do too). The cable techs and companies hate them. My next TV will have a cablecard slot or I will just keep this TV forever.

My Sharp TV has the built in TV Guide and theres a logo on the front of the TV. When you hit the button on the remote does the guide come up on your TV? Should be the trademark TV Guide.

I don't have that logo. The Guide button doesn't do anything at the moment. The manual only says: "Accesses the program guide of other devices".

So, I guess it comes down to having a STB with a guide provided by the cable/satelite or using the CableCard having to know the channels. Is CableCard PQ and no STB worth it?

I bought this TV partially based on feedback from this forum, but I guess this is a detail I missed.

I don't have that logo. The Guide button doesn't do anything at the moment. The manual only says: "Accesses the program guide of other devices".

So, I guess it comes down to having a STB with a guide provided by the cable/satelite or using the CableCard having to know the channels. Is CableCard PQ and no STB worth it?

I bought this TV partially based on feedback from this forum, but I guess this is a detail I missed.
I'm sorry to hear this. Maybe myself and others should have hammered this home for the beneifit for others.

You'll be fine with a STB but I don't like the idea of it. Cost you more and loss of resolution but I think its a minor loss. I've read where some cable companies have gone all digital and the box is smaller and doesn't have to process analog signals. Which improves PQ. Do a google search.

Not a problem. There are so many choices, this is all a bit overwhelming at first.