Background info re my system to extent you find it useful in better understanding what I have to say here:

For theater photos, go to this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=657782&highlight=bruzonsky


STEVE BRUZONSKY’S HOME THEATER SYSTEM – AUGUST 2006!


AUDIO PROCESSING:

Theta Casablanca 3 surround processor (with 2 Xtreme DAC cards with 2 Xtreme DAC cards (accommodates 8
8 Xtreme balanced channels). Only six channels connected, five main channels plus one subwoofer, as the three subwoofers are chained for front left, front right and surround subwoofers. Tweaks: Symposium Rollerblocks, Symposium Ultra Platform, Bybee AC Charger Filter, Granite Audio 560 10 guage power cord, uses PS Audio P600#1 (used for non-video front end components) set at 60 Hz sine wave, and Bright StarLittle Rock 2 on top of four Symposium Cubes.

Theta Six Shooter multi-channel analog multi-channel preamp. Tweaks: Symposium Svelte Shelf, Granite Audio 560 10 guage power cord, uses PS Audio P600#1 (used for non-video front end components) set at 60 Hz sine wave, and Bright Star Little Rock 2 on top.


VIDEO DISPLAY AND PROCESSING:

Dwin HD-700 CRT Projector, modified with USPL ECP color filtered lens (red and green), ceiling mounted, ISFed and setup initially Nov. 2000 by John Gannon, re-ISFed 2002 by Michael Hamilton, retubed by Mike Parker and re-ISFed by John Gannon in 2006. Tweaks: Modified by John Gannon to have USPL ECP color filtered lens (red and green). Bybee AC Charger Filter, Granite Audio 56625’ 10 guage power cord, and uses PS Audio P600#2 (used for video) set at P-1 square wave. Modified by Mike Parker in 2006 to use internal Granite Audio video cabling.

Lumagen VisionPro HDP video processor/scaler. Tweaks: Symposium Super Platform, Granite Audio proprietary toroid placed around Lumagen’s power cord, and uses PS Audio P600#2 (used for video) set at P-1 square wave.

Extron Video Switcher SW 6AR MX HV hi bandwith (RGB H/V sync on BNCs, 6 in, 1 out). Tweaks: Bybee AC Charger Filter, Granite Audio 560 10 guage power cord, and uses PS Audio P600#2 (used for video) set at P-1 square wave, and Bright StarLittle Rock 1 (on top of Extron Switcher, which is on top of Lumagen VisionPro HDP).

Stewart Studiotech 4 Way Screenwall Electrimask (16:9, 1.3 gain, 80" wide) (3 wall switches for masking top, bottom and sides)

Sharp 15" LCD Color TV (sits under screen as on screen display monitor for Theta Casablanca 3 surround processor)


AUDIO/VIDEO SOURCES:

DirecTV HD TIVO (HR10-250) satellite and OTA receiver. Tweaks: Symposium Ultra Platform, Two prong to male IEC adapter, Bybee AC Charger Filter, Granite Audio 560 10 guage power cord,
and uses PS Audio P600#1 (used for non-video front end components) set at 60 Hz sine wave.

Theta Compli DVD/CD/SACD/DVD-A player, with SDI and silver alloy cover. Tweaks: Symposium Rollerblocks, Symposium Ultra Platform, Bybee AC Charger Filter, Granite Audio 560 10 guage power cord, uses PS Audio P600#1 (used for non-video front end components) set at 60 Hz sine wave, , and Bright StarLittle Rock 1s.

Toshiba XA1-HD DVD player. Tweaks: Symposium Rollerblocks, Symposium Ultra Platform, Bybee AC Charger Filter, Granite Audio 560 10 guage power cord, uses PS Audio P600#1 (used for non-video front end components) set at 60 Hz sine wave.,

JVC HMDH4000U D-VHS VCR. Tweaks: Modified by Mike Parker to have BNC component outputs with high bandwith HD component video output. Modified by Don Hoglund of Granite Audio so that original hardwired 2 prong power cord cut down to a few inches with male IEC with ground pin not connected. Symposium Ultra Platform, Bybee AC Charger Filter, Granite Audio 560 10 guage power cord, uses PS Audio P600#1 (used for non-video front end components) set at 60 Hz sine wave.

Samsung SIR-ST165 digital/analog OTA tuner. Modified by Don Hoglund of Granite Audio so that original hardwired 2 prong power cord cut down to a few inches with male IEC with ground pin not connected. Symposium Svelte Shelf, Granite Audio 560 10 guage power cord, uses PS Audio P600#1 (used for non-video front end components) set at 60 Hz sine wave.

Pioneer DVR-510H DVD-R player/recorder. Tweaks: Symposium Shelf, Granite Audio proprietary toroid placed around Pioneer’s power cord, and uses PS Audio P600#1 (used for non-video front end components) set at 60 Hz sine wave.


REMOTE:

Universal MX-3000 touchscreen


POWER AMPLIFIERS:

Five Bryston 7B monoblock amplifiers (500 watts per channel into 8 ohms, 800 watts per channel into 4 ohms).
Tweaks: Modified by Joe Straceski, each amplifier with 8 Bybee large analog devices for internal AC. Symposium Rollerbocks, Symposium Ultra Platform, and Granite Audio 560 10 guage power cord.



SPEAKERS AND STANDS:

Four Aerial Acoustics 10T speakers (front and surround). Tweaks: Each 10T modified by Joe Straceski with 3 Bybee analog internal devices, a small device at midrange and at tweeter and a large device at woofer. Sound Anchor custom stands. Surround 10Ts are elevated an additional 6 inches high by having Osiris Giza Mk II stands below the Sound Anchors custom stands.

One Aerial Acoustics CC5 center speaker. Tweaks: Modified by Joe Straceski with 4 Bybee analog small internal devices, one at each driver. Sound Anchor custom stand including an extension piece to raise the mid-drivers to about listener ear level.

Three Aerial Acoustics SW12 powered subwoofers (400 watts each). Front left subwoofer chained to front right subwoofer, which in turn is chained to surround subwoofer. Tweaks: Each modified by Joe Straceski with one Bybee analog large internal device at the driver, with each having its AC modified with one analog large Bybee device. Each modified with internal speaker cables (from internal amplifier to internal binding posts for woofers) with custom Granite Audio 8 guage 1 foot speaker cables with proprietary banana plugs each end to ensure tight fit and solid connection. Each on custom Sound Anchors custom stand.


AUDIO AND VIDEO CABLES:

5 pairs 1’ Granite Audio Model 573 Bi-Wire 8 guage speaker cables (from Bryston 7B amplifiers to Aerial speakers)

2.5 pairs 25', Granite Audio Model 470 AES/EBU silver interconnects (from Theta Casablanca 3 – Six Shooter to each of five Bryston 7B amplifiers)





.5 Pair 20' Granite Audio Model 470 AES/EBU silver interconnect (from Theta Casablanca 3 – Six Shooter to
Front left Aerial subwoofer.

1 Pair 20' Granite Audio Model 470 AES/EBU silver interconnects (from front left Aerial subwoofer to front right
Aerial subwoofer, and then to surround Aerial subwoofer).

3 Pairs 1M Granite Audio Model 470 AES/EBU silver interconnects (from Theta Casablanca 3 to Six Shooter analog premp)

4 Pairs 1M Granite Audio Model 470 single-ended silver interconnects (from Theta Compli multi-channel RCA outputs to Six Shooter, and from Theta Compli stereo RCA outputs to Theta Casablanca 3)

3 Pairs 2M Granite Audio Model 470 single-ended silver interconnects (from Toshiba XA1 HD DVD player to Six Shooter).

2M Granite Audio Model 420 75 ohm cable/connectors, BNC to BNC, coaxial digital audio cable
(SDI from Theta Compli to Lumagen VisionPro HDP)

1M Granite Audio Model 420 75 ohm cable/connectors, BNC to BNC, coaxial digital audio cable (Theta Compli
to Theta Casablanca 3)

2M Cardas Audio AES/EBU digital audio cable (Theta Compli to Theta Casablanca 3)

5M Granite Audio Model 425 75 ohm cables/connectors, RGB H/V Sync, BNC to BNC (from Lumagen VisionPro HDP to Dwin HD-700 CRT Projector)

Granite Audio Model 420 75 ohm cables/connectors, F-cables, for internal hookup of satellite and OTA receivers

Granite Audio Model 423 Component Video 75 ohm cables/connectors, 1M RCA to BNC (HD TIVO to Extron Switcher), 1M BNC to BNC Extron Switcher to Lumagen VisionPro HDP)

Granite Audio Model 423 Component Video 75 ohm cables/connectors, 2M BNC to BNC (JVC HMDH4000U D-VHS VCR to Extron Switcher),

Granite Audio Model 423 Component Video 75 ohm cables/connectors, 3M RCA to BNC (Pioneer DVR-510H DVD-R to Lumagen VisionPro HDP)

2M 1394 cable (from JVC HMDH4000U D-VHS VCR to Samsung SIR-T165)

2M DVI Gear HDMI to DVI Super High Resolution cable (24 guage) (HD TIVO to Lumagen VisionPro HDP)

Wireworld Supernova 3+ Glass Toslink Cables, 3 1M and 1 2M (from HD TIVO, JVC HMDH4000U D-VHS VCR
Toshiba XA1 HD DVD and Pioneer DVR-510H DVD-R to Theta Casablanca 3)

POWER ACCESSORIES:

PS Audio P600 Power Plant #1, with Multiwave 2. Tweaks: Modified with 10 Bybee analog large internal devices (used for non-video front end components except amplifiers) set at 60 Hz sine wave, with API Power Enhancer plugged into same circuit, with Bright Star Little Rock 2 on top.

PS Audio P600 Power Plant #2, with Multiwave 2. Tweaks: Modified with 6 Bybee analog large internal devices (used for video) set at P-1 square wave, with Bright Star Little Rock 3 on top.

17 Granite Audio 560 power cords, 10 guage (with toroid high frequency noise filtering at each end, effectively non-current limiting) - two 9', two 6', and thirteen 5'.

Granite Audio 566 power cord, 10 guage, 25’ (from PS Audio P600 to Dwin HD-700 CRT Projector)

Audioprism Noise Sniffer, and Audioprism Quietline AC Filters, three sets of 8 each (in home theater room, only placed one per each unused of the 19 dedicated 20 amp circuits; otherwise placed around home)

PS Audio Power Ports for AC outlets and both PS Audio P600 outlets.

PS Audio Juice Bar


EQUIPMENT RACKS:

Michael Green Deep Clampracks, one 54" high and three 48" high

Five Michael Green Deluxe Justarack Tuning Boards


ROOM ACOUSTICAL TREATMENTS:

Michael Green Acoustical Crown Molding 5" (black) placed on bevel at wall/ceiling seams

Michael Green Pressure Zone Controllers (black):
Four Mini Corner Controllers, placed at ceiling corners over ACM joints; Eight Wall Mount Controllers 36", one at each of four wall corners, two on each side wall; and Six Mini Echo Controllers, one centered above the screen at the wall/ceiling seam, one centered above the back cabinets' wetbar at ball wall/ceiling seam, and one placed on the ceiling above each Aerial Acoustics 10T speaker


OTHER ACCESSORIES/TWEAKS:

Bybee large and small internal analog devices to modify components, by Joe Straceski used with the following components: Aerial 10Ts and CC5 drivers, Aerial SW12 subwoofer drivers and amplifier AC, Bryston 7B amplifiers AC power, PS Audio P600s AC input and outputs.

8 Bybee AC Charger Filters, each modified by Don Hoglund of Granite Audio with a Wattgate male, used with the following components: Theta Casablanca 3, Theta Six Shooter, Theta Compli, HD TIVO, Dwin HD-700 CRT Projector, Extron Switcher, HD TIVO, JVC HMDH4000U D-VHS VCR.

Symposium Ultra Platforms used with the following components: 5 Bryston 7B amplifiers, Theta Casablanca 3, HD TIVO, JVC HMDH4000U D-VHS VCR, Theta Compli and 2 PS Audio P600s

Symposium Super Platform used with Lumagen VisionPro HDP

Symposium Shelf used with Pioneer DVR-510H DVD player

Symposium Svelte Shelf used with Theta Six Shooter and Samsung SIR-ST165.

Symposium Rollerblocks with Upgrade Tungsten Carbide Balls used with the following components: 5 Bryston 7B amplifiers, Theta Casablanca 2, and Theta Compli.

5 Bright Star Little Rock 1s used with the following components: Extron Switcher and Theta Compli (2).

2 Bright Star Little Rock 2s used with the following components: Theta Casablanca 3 and PS Audio P600 #1.

1 Bright Star Little Rock 3 used with PS Audio P600 #2.

Cardas Caps for components' unused RCA inputs/outputs)

Michael Green brass Audiopoints under each Aerial Acoustics 10T and CC5 speaker..

2 sets (eight each) Michael Green Cable Grounds.

Channel Master Rotor for outdoor Radio Shack Analog/Digital OTA Antenna

Notes on Setup & Special Dedicated Room Construction and Features
Notes on Setup:

The four Aerial Acoustics 10T speakers are setup at about 2, 4, 8 and 10 o'clock on circle, tilted at the center front row "sweet spot" (two rows of leather recliners each row) listening/viewing position at about 45 degrees, with front left 10T facing surround right 10T, and front right 10T facing surround left 10T. The Aerial Acoustics CC5 center speaker is positioned with its back about two feet from the wall and its front about two feet back from the front of the front left and right Aerial 10Ts relative to the "sweet spot". Each 10T is roughly about 130 inches from its neighboring 10T from side to side and about 140 inches from front to back.

The outer edge of the front left and right, and surround left and right, Aerial Acoustics 10Ts are each about two feet from the closest side wall. Normally, this is too close for excellent imaging and sonics; however, thanks to the Michael Green Pressure Zone Controllers and acoustical treatments, this is preferred positioning for best home theater sonics. The Pressure Zone Controllers at the front of the room are adjusted for a solid phantom center image with only stereo playing for the front left and right 10Ts; and towards and at the back, the controllers are adjusted for more ambience.

The front right and left Aerial SW12 subwoofers are each placed directly inside the front left and right Aerial 10T speakers. This places their woofers at the one quarter width and one quarter length room dimensions. The surround Aerial SW12 subwoofer is placed to the immediate left but just in back (looking towards the Stewart screen in back of the CC5) of the Aerial CC5 center speaker. Subwoofers are set to equal the volume of the main speakers.

The four Aerial 10T and CC5 speakers are set to “full range” with the Theta Casablanca 2, using the “Butterworth” crossover to provide a 40 Hz 12 dB low pass to the front left and right, and surround, Aerial subwoofers. No crossover or signal to the subwoofer is used for the Aerial CC5 center speaker. This setup is maintained for both music and movies.

The ceiling is at 11'11". The Aerial CC5 Sound Anchors stand has a custom center or middle piece which is about ten inches higher than normal, allowing me to raise the center speaker as I have room under my screen so the center speaker, tilted just a bit, has its mid-drivers equal the center of my ear lobes as I sit in my trust front center chair. The top of the center speaker is 37" off the carpeted floor, with its mid-drivers about 33" off the floor. My mid-ear lobe level is about 39 - 40" off the floor as I recline a bit in my leather recliner.

The front left and right Aerial 10Ts, on Sound Anchor stands, have their mid midrange-tweeter at 42.5" off the floor; I have an additional Osiris Giza Mk2 stand under the Sound Anchors stand under the surround left and right Aerial 10Ts, so they have their mid midrange-tweeter at 48.5" off the floor.

Note the Stewart 4 Way Electrimask screen has its very bottom 36" off the floor (the Velux part) and the actual 16:9 screen starts 45" off the floor.


SPECIAL DEDICATED ROOM CONSTRUCTION AND FEATURES:

Home Theater room dimensions are 18 feet 3 inches wide, 25 feet long and 11 feet 11 inches high. This is #3 on the Louden scale of best acoustical audio dimensions, to lessen the room node interaction at low bass frequencies as much as possible.

The room was added East of the Master Bedroom. A hallway and bathroom are between the Master Bedroom and the Home Theater room. The theater's cement foundation has seams between the theater and the hallway/bathroom, and also between the hallway/bathroom and the Master Bedroom, for vibration control.

Double masonite doors with wood and rubber seals around them lead from the Master Bedroom to the hallway, and from the hallway to the theater. Double 2 inch X 4 inch stud walls, with 1 inch air space inbetween, are between the Master Bedroom and the hallway/bathroom.

At the rear of the home theater, flat black cabinets with a wetbar in the middle are 20 inches deep with the 2 inch X 6 inch stud wall in back of the cabinets.

There is blown in cellulose insulation for all of the walls, which seeps into and perfectly seals all nooks and crannies, except the ceiling insulation is BAT (much of the ceiling is taken up by large oversized air conditioning ducts and there was insuficient room up there to squeeze in a blow in cellulose). USG Acoustical Sealant was used on all stud surfaces to minimize vibrations. Sound board, followed by gyp board, was installed on all of the walls and ceiling of the entire addition.

The air conditioning return is at the rear of the theater underneath the cabinets and is roughly about more than 10 feet long and 4 inches in height. The air conditioning is whisper quiet thanks to the oversized gentle turns insulated air ducts. The air return is located in the attic above thebathroom, with a separate air conditioning unit outside the room, and with the air conditioning unit on a concrete slab separated from the addition's concrete slab, so that the air conditioning is self-contained and totally separate from the rest of our home.

The local code requires at minimum the Home Theater room's windows, two windows four feet wide X 5 feet high. Each window is on the north and south side walls, with each window ending 7 feet from the front video screen wall, just behind the very front of the front left and right Aerial Acoustics 10T speakers. The windows consist of one double pane outside and a single pane inside. Each pane is on a separate wood insulated frame to minimize vibrations and maximize soundproofing. Manual Draper Lightblock shades ensure that the room remains totally dark for video.

Our home has a 400 amp electrical service. That service was originally split into two 200 amp panel boxes, one for the East and one for the West side of our home. With the new addition at the East of our home, its 200 amp service panel box has a new 100 amp circuit breaker, which is isolated from the 200 amp panel from which its fed, which feeds a third panel box which contains 19 dedicated 20 amp, 10 guage wire circuits for the Home Theater room only. However, I intentionally wired the Home Theater room and addition lighting, a ceiling dedicated 20 amp circuit (which can but is not presently used for the projector), and the addition air conditioning dedicated 30 amp circuit into the pre-existing East panel box, to help keep noise from those circuits out of the panel box and dedicated circuits for audio and video components. The 19 dedicated 20 amp circuits in the Home Theater room panel box are wall wired same electrical phase, skipping every even circuit in the panel box (otherwise, as in typical panel boxes which don't skip every even circuit, this results in doubling the AC power noise). 4 guage copper wire runs from the Home Theater panel box to a nearby 8 foot copper ground rod well buried in the ground. The house ground is a 4 guage copper wire from the East panel box. And a 4 guage copper wire connects the copper ground rod to the house ground. The Home Theater room electrical outlets are PS Audio Power Ports 20 amp (which replaced Hubbell one grade below hospital grade in August 2002).

Home Theater room colors are optimized for CRT front projection, black carpet over a cement foundation, black ceiling, and black side walls from the front screen wall out seven feet to the edge of the windows, the remainder of the room is dark gray (the dark gray looks like a medium to lighter gray when placed next to black).

Three black art deco style theater lights on each side wall.

Lutron Grafik Eye 3000 remote controlled lighting.

A black, remote controlled whisper quiet ceiling fan centered about two-thirds into the room from the front screen wall.

Billy Bags Pro 100 Custom DVD & CD rack.

Two rows of three chairs each, black leather, Classic Lifestyles leather recliners (6) with upgraded seat cushions. Firm, flexible and most comfortable for many hours of viewing pleasure at a time. With lumbar support built-in. You can nearly fully recline, or you can sit up with your shoulders pretty much at the top of the chanir, so that the chair back doesn't interfere with the sound from the surround floorstanding Aerial Acoustics 10Ts.

Four Billy Bags amp stands are used as mobile end tables.

QUESTION:

Since I've got a Theta CB3 surround processor with all Xtreme DACs, it is logical to think that the el cheapo DACs in my Toshiba XA1 HD DVD player, purchased this June, ain't gonna sound as good using the Toshiba's multi-channel analog outputs for movies and HD DVD, as using the Toshiba's digital output into my CB3's Xtreme DACs. Right????

In fact, I was holding off on getting the HD DVD player assuming this. And Bulldogger who also has the CB3 with Six Shooter had already said that he found that the HD DVD player's analog outputs didn't sound better than the digital output, so he sold the HD DVD player
(video concerns though were I understand the primary reason for the salel).

But in June I heard the Toshiba XA1 HD DVD players at a friends, specifically "Phantom of the Opera" HD DVD. I had never heard movies sound so good on his system. So I bought one - that very evening. He had it connected via digital, not analog.

So I still wasn't expecting that using the Toshiba's internal DACs and analog outputs would be the way to go in my system.

In my initial setup, using a toslink cable sounded the best, analog output sucked.

Then I realized I needed to doublecheck my speaker levels by using an external test disc, not the internal test tones in the player. I found the internal test tones were quite off the mark.

Then I got el cheapo AR analog cables at Best Buy - not wanting to spend the bucks yet on my typical Granite Audio cables, doubting it would be worth it.

Put on Apollo 13 HD DVD on the Toshiba, and the DTS DVD on my Theta Compli.

The Compli sounded wonderful as always. In fact, the DVD DTS soundtrack on the Compli was reasonably more dynamic on bass in particular than the higher bitrate downrezzed (from DD+) DTS soundtrack on HD DVD digital to my CB3.
Not surprising, the Compli is amazing re DVD, etc. sonically speaking.

The big surprise was the HD DVD analog outputs using the Toshiba's internal DACs to convert the DD+ soundtrack to PCM to the Six Shooter. WOW!
I could feel the bass moving so much more in waves. More microdynamics.
Amazing.

Unfortunately, that night, the AC three prong IEC of the Six Shooter busted, and off for repair.

Based on my Apollo 13 experience, I obtained three 2M pairs of Granite Audio 470 interconnects to connect the HD DVD to the Six Shooter. So in two weeks, when I got back the repaired Six Shooter, I was set to go.

Initially, I played "Attack on Precinct 13" HD DVD and not impressed with sonics using either analog or toslink outputs of HD DVD player.

The next day, I played stuff burning in the HD DVD player, wondering if I had imagined stuff with Apollo 13 and if I should return the HD DVD player. If the HD DVD player continued to sound not near as good as my regular Compli on DVD I would not be happy regardless of its outstanding video.

Then, I replayed some of "Attack on Precinct 13", and now using analog outputs it sounded outstanding, not at all like the night before. Also put on "Apollo 13" and more outstanding than ever using analog outputs. COOL! Darn those el cheapo DACs. :eek:

I also compared "U-571" on DVD via Theta Compli, on DVD via HD DVD player,
on D-VHS tape on JVC D-VHS VCR, and on HD DVD using HD DVD player.

Again, no matter how good they all sound, HD DVD analog outputs the clear winner!!!

I've continued to do some comparisons, finding:

HD DVD analog multi-channel outputs are the best every time!

However, as HD DVD player has burned in, its toslink digital output
comes in second (better than the DVD DD 5.1 track on Theta Compli or HD DVD player) - at least on stuff I played, apparently due to HD DVD's higher bit rate converted by the player into DTS 1.5 mbs output via toslink to my CB3.

Comparing regular DVDs on the Compli vs the HD DVD player: Now that the HD DVD player has burned in, regular DVDs sound remarkably good - not quite as good as using the Theta Compli, but good nonetheless. Of course in my system I will take the Compli's dynamic range as what in quick AB comparison seems like a small difference becomes magnified watching a two hour movie.

Just got the Toshiba HD DVD 2.0 firmware upgrade a few days ago. Now I can play those 4-5 HD DVDs with Dolby True HD (lossless multi-channel) tracks. COOL!
Tried "Training Day" and "Phantom of the Opera". WOW! They set a new sonic
performance for movies in my system. Using the analog multi-channel outputs of course. I did switch and compare using toslink, which sounded really good,
but not as good as the analog.

Today I watched the HD DVD of U-2's concert in Dolby Digital Plus (Darn, not DTS True HD). But I gotta tell you. It sounded fantastic!!!!

I tired it both ways, analog vs toslink. Toslink sounded great. But analog simply
has reasonably cleaner and better defined bass and microdynamics and soundstaging, instantly obvious. However, if I hadn't heard the analog, I would have just luved the toslink.

This is just my experience. We live in a changing home theater and audio environment. A few years ago, the Theta CB's Xtreme DACs were King.
Now the Theta Six Shooter is proving to be a King, too. As is the Toshiba HD DVD player.


In my system, I am not concerned about side or center surround speakers, so HD DVD via the Six Shooter gives me what I need in spades.

From what I've read on the web, a few others with "high end" surround processors have had similar experiences, even if arguably the analog multi-channel input of their surround processor wasn't as high quality as my Six Shooter, or if their analog multi-channel input converted incoming analog to digital. Bottom line is we are finding that higher bit rates yet not expensive DACs are translating into better sonics for us.

Can't wait for more concerts to come out - U-2 in DD+ is amazing, but getting concerts in Dolby True HD will be even more spectacular. U-2 in DD+ is so amazing that it didn't leave me gasping for audio only with multi-channel SACD,
and multi-channel SACD is awful good in my system so that's saying that the U-2 HD DVD sounds way way better than I had anticipated.

Based on my Apollo 13 experience, I obtained three 2M pairs of Granite Audio 470 interconnects to connect the HD DVD to the Six Shooter. So in two weeks, when I got back the repaired Six Shooter, I was set to go.

Initially, I played "Attack on Precinct 13" HD DVD and not impressed with sonics using either analog or toslink outputs of HD DVD player.
I think that's what I did Steve. I assumed that all of the HDDVDs would sound good. They do not. Also I was outputting 720 to my projector and 1080 to my SXRD television from the Toshiba. Of course the SXRD is a lot better than my LCD projector. The difference is not as great as it appeared as I subsequently found out that the Toshiba only spits out 540 lines via the 720 out. I was baffled as to why the Toshiba did not look as good as my over-the-air HDTV feed. First generation formats and players have quirks. These quirks led me to some false asumptions.

I'm searching for some old tech, a Parasound CSE 6.1 expander so the I can go to 7.1 via the Circle Surround that the CSE uses. Found one and am waiting for a dealer to get back as to if he still has it. Two Six shooters and 5 big ass amps so you know that I am going to find a way to not just let my back channels idle with these new formats:D.

This is just my experience. We live in a changing home theater and audio environment. A few years ago, the Theta CB's Xtreme DACs were King.
Now the Theta Six Shooter is proving to be a King, too. As is the Toshiba HD DVD player.
.
I do not think that it is the player. It is the fact that the Toshiba is using a higher resolution signal. If the playing field were level, I believe the CB would win. We will have to wait a few years to find out .

Wow 12 /15 responses are Steve's....Is this another Theta pontification thread in Sheep's(Toshibas) clothing??

Thre take away here is that the Cheapo Best Buy interconnects you bought astounded you like the Granite Audio's and the Toshiba DACs go toe to toe with the Theta extremes!!:D

Interesting.

Just imagine what it would be like with HDMI 1.1... I was listening to the Dolby TrueHD 5.1 tracks on Constantine, POTO and Training Day (all HD-DVDs) yesterday over HDMI 1.1.

Listening to those tracks entirely in the digital domain (with no additional D/A and A/D conversion) was absolutely stunning.

It's too bad that Theta is presently behind the curve and can't fully use the potential of those new HD players...

Interesting.

Just imagine what it would be like with HDMI 1.1... I was listening to the Dolby TrueHD 5.1 tracks on Constantine, POTO and Training Day (all HD-DVDs) yesterday over HDMI 1.1.

Listening to those tracks entirely in the digital domain (with no additional D/A and A/D conversion) was absolutely stunning.

It's too bad that Theta is presently behind the curve and can't fully used the potential of those new HD players...

Steve will tell you that forget digital domain...those Toshiba DACs are on par with his Extremes...

I think that's what I did Steve. I assumed that all of the HDDVDs would sound good. They do not. Also I was outputting 720 to my projector and 1080 to my SXRD television from the Toshiba. Of course the SXRD is a lot better than my LCD projector. The difference is not as great as it appeared as I subsequently found out that the Toshiba only spits out 540 lines via the 720 out. I was baffled as to why the Toshiba did not look as good as my over-the-air HDTV feed. First generation formats and players have quirks. These quirks led me to some false asumptions.

Apparently the brand new 2.0 firmware upgrade has fixed the 720p dilemma so now it looks much better.

Steve will tell you that forget digital domain...those Toshiba DACs are on par with his Extremes...

Jeff, can you quite farting and start participating?

I'm just telling you what I'm hearing and enjoying. Isn't that what home theater is supposed to be about instead of bickering about whose gun is better all the time?

Egads I would luv to upgrade the Toshiba DACs to the Xtreme quality and hear it through the Six Shooter. And more practically someday upgrade my CB3 to HDMI
so I can use hopefully even better Theta DACs to do the conversion. But what counts now is now and darn those el cheapo Toshiba DACs sound awful good, which yes certainly surprised me.

Funny thing about this game. When you upgrade DACs and such, you always here huge differences, but then when you plug in the old gear or cheap gear, you realize "huh, why does this sound so good?" We seem to go in these weird circles where more expensive is better until we've blown insane amounts of money, then work our way back to "wow, cheap stuff sounds as good or better than expensive stuff". Then start the process all over again. It's only a matter of time before Toshibas are being modded to sound even better, then Theta will come out with the ultimate HD-DVD player, then HVD will come out for $500 and then blow us all away again with its sonic superiority, repeat ad naseaum until we run out of cash or life.

Steve

You have a very nice theater. Do you have some pictures to share. Clicked on the link to your picture page but its bare :( Would love to see this.

For photos go to this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=657782&highlight=bruzonsky

Until we can experience hd-dvd sound thru hdmi 1.1 into the CB3, the toshiba will probably sound better. It's not even the same signal that can be compared over the digital out/analog out.

bulldogger : the problem from 720p is going 1080p->540p->720p. The chain is now reduced to 1080p->720p with FW 2.0

As for 7.1, you can copy the signal from the surround to the side with a splitter into your amp. Works ok for a cheap solution. Very frustrating to have those costly dacs collecting dust.

As for 7.1, you can copy the signal from the surround to the side with a splitter into your amp. Works ok for a cheap solution. Very frustrating to have those costly dacs collecting dust.

Bulldogger, this is perhaps the best solution for you. As you have Granite Audio cabling like me, you can contact Don at Granite Audio and he can make some custom quality splitters if you like.

Until we can experience hd-dvd sound thru hdmi 1.1 into the CB3, the toshiba will probably sound better. It's not even the same signal that can be compared over the digital out/analog out.


Agreed. I would be shocked if the Toshiba's DACs didn't sound better since the 5.1 analog outs are passing high resolution surround while the digital out is only passing compressed DD or DTS. Same situation where the analog outs of a cheap SACD player sound better than the digital output because the analog outs are passing the SACD layer while the digital out is only passing the CD layer.

Hi

maybe not the rright place to ask cansomeone post the procedure to upgrade the firmware?

Or PM me...

Hi

maybe not the rright place to ask cansomeone post the procedure to upgrade the firmware?

Or PM me...

Download MagicISO (do a search and find it), install it.

Download the 2.0 beta firmware, which some folks say is identical to the CD that Toshiba will be mailing us, from

http://rapidshare.de/files/30453167/2.0firmware.nrg.html\

Then click on MagicISo and its real easy, of course put a blank CD=R in your computer

Next, put the CD=R in your HD DVD player and follow the on screen instructions.

Make sure power ain't interrupted or you got big problems.

If your HD DVD player is web connected, then you can also download firmware in the Settings Menu of the HD DVD player - if you do this, ensure there is no disc in the player, as reports of folks doing this with a disc in the player ain't good.

Interesting.

Just imagine what it would be like with HDMI 1.1... I was listening to the Dolby TrueHD 5.1 tracks on Constantine, POTO and Training Day (all HD-DVDs) yesterday over HDMI 1.1.

Listening to those tracks entirely in the digital domain (with no additional D/A and A/D conversion) was absolutely stunning.

It's too bad that Theta is presently behind the curve and can't fully use the potential of those new HD players...
There is no additional digital to analog conversion? The player is doing the conversion in one case and in the other the processor.

It's only a matter of time before Toshibas are being modded to sound even better, .
:D, my plans are to contact some of the guys that do mods as soon as I get my player.

As for 7.1, you can copy the signal from the surround to the side with a splitter into your amp. Works ok for a cheap solution. Very frustrating to have those costly dacs collecting dust.
I believe you get "comb-filtering" when you do that. I need something to process the signal to avoid having two speakers produce the exact same signal. I have found one CSE 6.1 but it's new and I do not want to buy a new one since they hae been discontinued for a few years.

Hi

maybe not the rright place to ask cansomeone post the procedure to upgrade the firmware?

Or PM me...
If you have broadband you can also go to the Toshiba site and do it http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/dvd/product.asp?model=hd-a1 Look under RESOURCES.

" I need something to process the signal to avoid having two speakers produce the exact same signal. I have found one CSE 6.1 but it's new and I do not want to buy a new one since they hae been discontinued for a few years. "

The CSE 6.1 will give you two rears speakers producing the exact same signal.

Shawn

Bulldogger : The CB3 will do exactly that : copy the exact signal from the side surround to the back surround, or the other way around. the added benefits are individual bass management and volume control.

As i said, it is a cheap solution to use a splitter, but it works.

All that's being proved is that expensive DACs + compressed source doesn't sound as good as cheaper equipment + uncompressed source. This is like discovering that CDs sound better than 128kbps MP3s...

All that's being proved is that expensive DACs + compressed source doesn't sound as good as cheaper equipment + uncompressed source. This is like discovering that CDs sound better than 128kbps MP3s...

I agree with you - except that I have discovered even more enjoyment out of my system despite the cheaper DACs/equipment with less compressed/uncompressed source.

I anticipate that others, with gear even other than Theta (like I have), may be finding the same!!!@@@

Seve, when you calibrated with the external disc, did you set the analog levels in the Toshiba by going back and forth, or did you set the Tosh to zero across the board and adjust your pre-pro levels for the independent channels?

I have had terrible analog sound versus the digital feed. So if analog, set Tosh to PCM and if digital, set it to output Bitstream, correct?

Pete

Seve, when you calibrated with the external disc, did you set the analog levels in the Toshiba by going back and forth, or did you set the Tosh to zero across the board and adjust your pre-pro levels for the independent channels?

I have had terrible analog sound versus the digital feed. So if analog, set Tosh to PCM and if digital, set it to output Bitstream, correct?

Pete

If you are playing HD DVDs via HD DVD player's analog outputs; but still want to play DVD via the HD DVD player's digital output: Leave the HD DVD audio menu set to bitstream. The extra digital converion when set to PCM sounds quite confined playing DVD, when compared to bitstream. This doesn't affect the HD DVD player's internal conversion of DD+ or Dolby True HD to PCM analog.

If you aren't using a Six Shoooter or top notch multi-channel analog preamp and it sounds better using digital for HD DVD, keep it at bitstream, so the player will downcovert to DTS at 1.5 mbs.

I leave the HD DVD menu speaker levels at 0 and just set the levels in the CB3 or other surround processor menu, if you can And use an external test disc - a DVD with THX Optimizer is best way to go.

All that's being proved is that expensive DACs + compressed source doesn't sound as good as cheaper equipment + uncompressed source. This is like discovering that CDs sound better than 128kbps MP3s...
That appears to be the course Sony is taking with Blu-ray?

" I need something to process the signal to avoid having two speakers produce the exact same signal. I have found one CSE 6.1 but it's new and I do not want to buy a new one since they hae been discontinued for a few years. "

The CSE 6.1 will give you two rears speakers producing the exact same signal.

Shawn
Yes the two rears that the CSE 6.1 prouces will produce the same signal. However the signal will not be the same as the rear left and right that goes in. Basically you get the same rear left and rear right and a SINGLE matrixed rear channel. This channel will be different.

I received my Toshiba HD DVD Players. I have a DSL modem. The instructions in the manual confused me for a minute as it appeared that your modem had to either have a built-in router or you needed a separate one. I already had an RJ45 cable. I just unplugged my PC and plug the yellow RJ45 cable directly into the Toshiba. Then I needed a monitor to see the menu of the Toshiba. I used a small portable tv that I have to do that. You have to go into the Ethernet menu and turn on DHCP and DNS. Then go into the maintance menu and select update firmware.

I know this is the 20k+ forum, but we all still love a good deal, right? The Toshiba HD-DVD player is available for $363 shipped through Continental Airlines Onepass rewards program. The HD-DVD player is $363 + 100 frequent flyer miles. If you don't have the miles already, you can purchase a magazine subscription for $10 and get 200 miles. It takes about 2 weeks for the miles to show up in your account. I ordered mine last week.

By the way, if this type of post is inappropriate, please delete with my apologies. I don't have any stake in the deal, just passing it along.

Thanks BobDole. And I though I was getting a great deal on a used one and it cost more than that!

Bulldogger, this is perhaps the best solution for you. As you have Granite Audio cabling like me, you can contact Don at Granite Audio and he can make some custom quality splitters if you like.
Don is a great guy. I have four pairs of the 470 and a single 8 meter run of the XLR 470 that I am using on my center. I am going to take a "wait and see" approach for 7.1 HD DVD titles. No luck so far locating a Parasound CSE 6.1 or Smart Devices product. Not really a priority. I need to measure as I will need different lengths of cable to run monoblocks, Mcintosh MC501s, on my other two front channels.

On another note, in order to get the Toshiba to work via HDMI with my Sony SXRD television, I have to make sure the television is turned on first. Otherwise, I get an HDMI error message. These types of issues are supposedly corrected with HDMI 1.3.

Hi

Upon reading this thread , i did try the Anamlog outputs and indeed they are substantialy better than regular Dolby Digital ... I will not stop telling people on this forum how good this player is: The best Picture one can currently get and the best sound of the movies al this for less than $500... Wow.. I bought a second one , just in case the first breaks, Sending it for repair in the USA and waiting for weeks or months is not an idea I would relish...

Hi

Upon reading this thread , i did try the Anamlog outputs and indeed they are substantialy better than regular Dolby Digital ... I will not stop telling people on this forum how good this player is: The best Picture one can currently get and the best sound of the movies al this for less than $500... Wow.. I bought a second one , just in case the first breaks, Sending it for repair in the USA and waiting for weeks or months is not an idea I would relish...

What surround processor, amps and speakers do you use?

Be sure to get the 2.0 firmware upgrade and try some of the four Dolby True HD movies for audio, and let us know what you think.

I got a chance to open up a HD-A1 and I was very surprised to see how well the analog section looked. It wasn't a cheap analog circuit by any means. This has to be partly why it sounds so good. I never got a chance to try the analog section. I was surprised the player was only $500 for the analog circuit looked like something in a $5000 player. I'm not kidding either!

Ron

The DVD-rom player inside is a nec and is recognized by windows XP.

All it needs is an HDCP video card and the software player and i'm sure it could play on a PC.

Only thing is thaht the SW player is mostly impossible to have legally...

steve, did you try a standard dvd using the analogue outs of the tosh and were they inferior compared to the theta? specifically, if you run the toshiba straight to a preamp (no processor) and allow its dacs (analogue outs) do all the processing, how did it sound?

anyone???

Hmm, interesting.
I have some extra Nordost Valhalla power cord and interconnect I can try it with, and I will mod the internals with Nordost Valkyrja speaker cable.

Does the European version have cheaper parts inside? Should I get the US version HD-A1? I have an extra P300 Power Plant left over I can use to convert the voltage with, with the Euro version I would use the new Premier Power Plant instead.

The DVD-rom player inside is a nec and is recognized by windows XP.How does the computer output audio through digital out? Does it first convert into PCM through software? Would this make the Toshiba's analog outputs better then?

steve, did you try a standard dvd using the analogue outs of the tosh and were they inferior compared to the theta? specifically, if you run the toshiba straight to a preamp (no processor) and allow its dacs (analogue outs) do all the processing, how did it sound?

Standard DVD using analog outputs, or the Toshiba's toslink out, don't sound bad at all. No, not as good as the Compli, but still quite good. I had a Panasonic
RP-91 SDI modded which frankly was excellent on video (not any better than Compli SDI video) but on audio DVD digital was merely ok, clearly lacked microdynamics, dynamics, clarity and soundstaging of the Compli. The Toshiba performs in my opinion a good deal better than the Panasonic on DVD audio.
Of course, a reason that the Toshiba on analog output DVD sounded pretty good is the Six Shooter.

Anthony, I plan to try a standard DVD as well. I plan to try both the standard DVD version of Serenity and the HD-DVD version. I do not want to just use the dolby digital track on the HD-DVD to make sure the bit rate has not been intentionally reduced. The increased bass response also has me curious. I can not see how increasing resolution would increase the frequency response of the sound track? Am I mistaken, does Dolby Digital throw some of the frequency spectrum away to save space? If not, I can only assume that the frequency response has been intentionaly lowered to increase bass impact. I keep reading comments about deeper bass. After speaking with Curt at Velodyne about the required bits to reproduce bass, I am baffled as to why an increase in resolution would produce deeper bass?

Hmm, interesting.
I have some extra Nordost Valhalla power cord and interconnect I can try it with, and I will mod the internals with Nordost Valkyrja speaker cable.

Does the European version have cheaper parts inside? Should I get the US version HD-A1? I have an extra P300 Power Plant left over I can use to convert the voltage with, with the Euro version I would use the new Premier Power Plant instead.

How does the computer output audio through digital out? Does it first convert into PCM through software? Would this make the Toshiba's analog outputs better then?

The Toshiba HD-XA1 has a three prong IEC input, so I use my Granite Audio 560 power cord, a Bybee external AC Charger filter, and a PS Audio P600 (modded with Bybee devices) at 60 Hz sine wave with it as well.

In the menu, you can select PCM or bitstream for the digital out. In my system, using the digital connection, bitstream clearly sounds much better. But for HD DVD, the multi-channel analog outputs are the best.

I am doing a few things in my theater so it may take a bit before I get down to listening. Damn thing is such a bargain that it is hard to be too critical.

i think its the price to performance that is "wowing" everyone with it. it would be interesting how this player compares to the new denon 3930 (video and analogue audio performance). if it is on par, then yes, a great bargain!!!!

Steve,
"But for HD DVD, the multi-channel analog outputs are the best. "

From your suggestion above, If I have EMM LABS DAC6e + Switchman-3, do I need to buy any new surround processor soon? I plan to use analog outputs from HD-DVD A1 to Switchman-3.
Thanks

Steve,
"But for HD DVD, the multi-channel analog outputs are the best. "

From your suggestion above, If I have EMM LABS DAC6e + Switchman-3, do I need to buy any new surround processor soon? I plan to use analog outputs from HD-DVD A1 to Switchman-3.
Thanks


Lets say that you only watch HD DVD - no DirecTV or Dish Network, no cable, no DVD. Then, if you have an excellent analog multi-channel preamp, which connects direct to your amps and speakers, you don't need a surround processor.

Or frankly, although the Toshiba HD DVD on plain ol' DVD analog output ain't as clean and dynamic as my Theta Compli via my CB3 Xtreme DACs, the Toshiba DVD really ain't bad, either - actually pretty decent. So you can use it via analog outputs for plain ol' DVD, too.

Steve...

I have Lexicon MC-8 (using coax. cable)for my SDI dvd player so I'm going to use Toshiba HD DVD with Switchman-3 (using analog) as per your suggesttion.
Thanks again.

Steve...

I have Lexicon MC-8 (using coax. cable)for my SDI dvd player so I'm going to use Toshiba HD DVD with Switchman-3 (using analog) as per your suggesttion.
Thanks again.

Do I understand right, that you will do analog multi-channel out from the Switchman-3 direct to your amplifiers? Or do you connect into the multi-channel analog inputs of the MC-8? If the latter, it likely won't sound near as good.

HD DVD analog(RCA cable)-->Switchman-3(Balance cable)-->Plinius Odeon
SDI DVD Player (Coax-RCA cable)-->MC-8(RCA cable)-->Plinius Odeon
I'm going to switch RCA/XLR at Plinius Odeon.

I guess(and hope) that analog pre-amp. in Switchman-3 should give a better sound than analog pre-amp. in MC-8. I also plan to sell out MC-8 when the new surround processor with HDMI 1.3 coming out.

Thanks a bunch

just watched "Aon Flux". Not bad, video superb, nice audio in DD+ multi-channel analog output.

But also watched "Training Day" in Dolby True HD. WOW! The picture is as good as I've ever seen. Sound in True HD is also the very best ever for a movie, quite sensational.

HD DVD analog(RCA cable)-->Switchman-3(Balance cable)-->Plinius Odeon
SDI DVD Player (Coax-RCA cable)-->MC-8(RCA cable)-->Plinius Odeon
I'm going to switch RCA/XLR at Plinius Odeon.

I guess(and hope) that analog pre-amp. in Switchman-3 should give a better sound than analog pre-amp. in MC-8. I also plan to sell out MC-8 when the new surround processor with HDMI 1.3 coming out.

Thanks a bunch
Great set-up! You should be fine until 1.3 is available. I have owned four products with HDMI 1.1. All four products have had trouble working working with at least one of the other products. HDMI will be a huge success I believe. Everyone is very tired of all of those cables.

Steve, it is as I suspected. It is not that this player sounds that good. It is that dolby digital just is not that great. I have never been impressed with dolby digital. Sure it was better than Pro-logic and a step forward but far less than CD quality. I tried the Toshiba with some 24/48 two channel material and then feed the same signal into the CBIII for an apples to apples comparison. As you know, the CBIII when given the same level of signal smoked the Toshiba. The Toshiba is very flat and lifeless sounding. Still if it has Dolby HD or something, it will sound better than the CBIII if it is only getting dolby digital which is all it can accept for movies. I wish there was a more high-end HD-DVD player availible. I think your enthusiam is because you are finally getting something better than dolby digital for movies. As soon as some higher end players come out, I think you and I are going to dump the Toshiba;). I do not want to be too hard on the Toshiba as it is such a bargain. I just can not seem to get excited about it though. For movies the Toshiba running the new formats sounds better since the CBIII can only run dolby digital and DTS. I know you like the Almean Brothers but not sure about AC/DC. Try the 24/48 side of the AC/DC Dual disk with the Toshiba doing the digital to analog conversion, then try with the CBIII serving as the dac. It is going to knock the luster off the Toshiba and give you an idea as to what to expect with a better player.

Steve, it is as I suspected. It is not that this player sounds that good. It is that dolby digital just is not that great. I have never been impressed with dolby digital. Sure it was better than Pro-logic and a step forward but far less than CD quality. I tried the Toshiba with some 24/48 two channel material and then feed the same signal into the CBIII for an apples to apples comparison. As you know, the CBIII when given the same level of signal smoked the Toshiba. The Toshiba is very flat and lifeless sounding. Still if it has Dolby HD or something, it will sound better than the CBIII if it is only getting dolby digital which is all it can accept for movies. I wish there was a more high-end HD-DVD player availible. I think your enthusiam is because you are finally getting something better than dolby digital for movies. As soon as some higher end players come out, I think you and I are going to dump the Toshiba;). I do not want to be too hard on the Toshiba as it is such a bargain. I just can not seem to get excited about it though. For movies the Toshiba running the new formats sounds better since the CBIII can only run dolby digital and DTS. I know you like the Almean Brothers but not sure about AC/DC. Try the 24/48 side of the AC/DC Dual disk with the Toshiba doing the digital to analog conversion, then try with the CBIII serving as the dac. It is going to knock the luster off the Toshiba and give you an idea as to what to expect with a better player.

I don't do dual discs. They are thicker than DVDs and redbook CDs and can cause problems with the transport. I know, I tried one with the Compli and had some issues and said no more.

I haven't even bothered with the Toshiba as a redbook CD player for two channel - why, when I have the Compli? Odds are that Toshiba put more into their multi-channel sound for video than their two channel. I had a Panasonic RP-91 that wasn't bad on DVD but absolutely stunk on redbook.

Dual disk give you a dvd on one side. So it's 24/48 stuff in this case and not red book.

Steve, it is as I suspected. It is not that this player sounds that good. It is that dolby digital just is not that great. I have never been impressed with dolby digital. Sure it was better than Pro-logic and a step forward but far less than CD quality. I tried the Toshiba with some 24/48 two channel material and then feed the same signal into the CBIII for an apples to apples comparison. As you know, the CBIII when given the same level of signal smoked the Toshiba. The Toshiba is very flat and lifeless sounding. Still if it has Dolby HD or something, it will sound better than the CBIII if it is only getting dolby digital which is all it can accept for movies. I wish there was a more high-end HD-DVD player availible. I think your enthusiam is because you are finally getting something better than dolby digital for movies. As soon as some higher end players come out, I think you and I are going to dump the Toshiba;). I do not want to be too hard on the Toshiba as it is such a bargain. I just can not seem to get excited about it though. For movies the Toshiba running the new formats sounds better since the CBIII can only run dolby digital and DTS. I know you like the Almean Brothers but not sure about AC/DC. Try the 24/48 side of the AC/DC Dual disk with the Toshiba doing the digital to analog conversion, then try with the CBIII serving as the dac. It is going to knock the luster off the Toshiba and give you an idea as to what to expect with a better player.

I agree 100%. All things being equal, a well-mastered SACD played on a $100 DVD player will sound better than a CD of the same recording played on a SOTA $20k CD player. Same thing happening here. IMO, the difference in sound quality between a cheap receiver and a good pre/pro is considerable for DD/DTS. I am excited to here how good TrueHD, DD-Plus, etc. can sound when the high-end pre/pros are all on board!!

I agree 100%. All things being equal, a well-mastered SACD played on a $100 DVD player will sound better than a CD of the same recording played on a SOTA $20k CD player.
Some people think otherwise:

http://hometheatertalk.com/Reviews/Cary/cary.html

WHAT? NO SACD?

Don't need it. I have an SACD player, but with the Cary 303/300 in the rack, I find myself playing the redbook layer of my SACDs through the Cary and getting BETTER sound! Yes, this player makes SACD all but obsolete to these old ears. I never thought I would be saying that but there it is. I use my SACD player for the SACDs I have that do not have a redbook layer. That is quite a testimonial in my opinion.


The problem is that most/all equipment aren't good enough to hear all data even from Redbook CD.

I can't beleive the high end isn't all over the A1! Some people here have more invested in a single cable. Is price the deciding issue? Too cheap to be good? Maybe Lexicon needs to rebadge it, add a milled aluminum faceplate, and peddle it for $5K :rolleyes:

There's also the newer A2 and sibling coming out before year end that address slow remote responses and 1080P output. I've thought about grabbing another A1 and stealing it's HD DVD drive for my htpc, and have a backup player. Seems the Bluray and HD DVD players sell for the cost of the bare pc drives. The A1 has it's warts but performance isn't one of them.

All things being equal, a well-mastered SACD played on a $100 DVD player will sound better than a CD of the same recording played on a SOTA $20k CD player. Same thing happening here. IMO, the difference in sound quality between a cheap receiver and a good pre/pro is considerable for DD/DTS. I am excited to here how good TrueHD, DD-Plus, etc. can sound when the high-end pre/pros are all on board!!

Not necessarily true. A few years ago, when I "only" had a Theta CB2 with Superior DACs and a Bybee AC modded Sony SD-700ES SACD player, and I demod a Granite Audio tube CD player, the CD player analog output using CB3 mode Analog Direct sounded a bit better across the board on CD than the SACD player playing SACD. I did a long review here at AVS Forum on this. Then, when I upgraded the CB3 to Xtreme DACs, I found that redbook using the Xtreme DACs sounded about the same as using the tube CD player analog output. This was pre-Six Shooter.

So I was frankly surprised at how good the Toshiba HD DVD player sounds using the multi-channel analog outputs for Dolby Digital Plus and even better for Dolby True HD!!!

Yes the two rears that the CSE 6.1 prouces will produce the same signal. However the signal will not be the same as the rear left and right that goes in. Basically you get the same rear left and rear right and a SINGLE matrixed rear channel. This channel will be different.

I'm on a similar track with an old Tate 101 processor I found on EBAY. The Tate/Fosgate 101 is clamed to be the absolute best quad synthesizer ever built. It's a 1977 design and of course all analog.

I also plan to run HD-DVD or Bluray as discrete analog. To do all this I am constructing a 10 channel switch matrix to swap the various processors. The Lexicon DC1/CP1 custom rig is great but I want some other options and the ability to use uncompressed analog from my old laser disk concerts that will never be re-released true HD because they were mastered in NTSC video not film. I have got some interesting options here such as L&R subs. 5.1 spells mono sub but with the other processor I have the ability to run stereo subs.

Now for you audiophiles: The switch matrix I am fabricating is all relays, that is a passive switch matrix. The relays will be microprocessor controlled to easily make up the different comnbinations but the control system is physically seperate from the audio wiring due to the relays. In other words this is a "straight wire" switch.

More to come!

I'm on a similar track with an old Tate 101 processor I found on EBAY. The Tate/Fosgate 101 is clamed to be the absolute best quad synthesizer ever built. It's a 1977 design and of course all analog.

I also plan to run HD-DVD or Bluray as discrete analog. To do all this I am constructing a 10 channel switch matrix to swap the various processors. The Lexicon DC1/CP1 custom rig is great but I want some other options and the ability to use uncompressed analog from my old laser disk concerts that will never be re-released true HD because they were mastered in NTSC video not film. I have got some interesting options here such as L&R subs. 5.1 spells mono sub but with the other processor I have the ability to run stereo subs.

Now for you audiophiles: The switch matrix I am fabricating is all relays, that is a passive switch matrix. The relays will be microprocessor controlled to easily make up the different comnbinations but the control system is physically seperate from the audio wiring due to the relays. In other words this is a "straight wire" switch.

More to come!

Although Glimmie disclaims being a "tweaker", he builds his own tweaks, like balanced power, power cords, etc. Although I luv my home theater system,
I proclaim my bet that Glimmie has the very best sounding home theater system
for the money spent of anyone. (I'm not saying its the best sounding home theater system, just the best for the buck - benefit/cost ratio).

you know, many of us have spent big bucks on high end DVD players:

myself, several models including

-Krell DVD Standard
-Proceed PMDT/SDI /VP
-Lexicon RT-10
-Denon high end... et al

none come close to the 'cheap Toshiba HD DVD Player' for audio and video quality...and yet, because of the 'format war' it is criticized for its faults

I will gladly order the 2nd gen XA2 which is still a bargain at $1k: the 'State of the Art' is definitely advancing :)

I hope BD can offer the same advances too...

I am fairly new at this and do not have a processor yet. Given the rapidly changing formats, cabling, etc. I am thinking seriously about the Audio Research MP-1 preamp and going in with analog connections from all sources. I, too, wonder if by the time processors catch up to HDMI 1.3, some newer format will offer as good or better performance via analog connections. It would appear that by having a very good analog pre-amp, one can be near state-of-the art without repeatedly reinvesting in cables, processors, etc.

I agree 100%. All things being equal, a well-mastered SACD played on a $100 DVD player will sound better than a CD of the same recording played on a SOTA $20k CD player. Same thing happening here. IMO, the difference in sound quality between a cheap receiver and a good pre/pro is considerable for DD/DTS. I am excited to here how good TrueHD, DD-Plus, etc. can sound when the high-end pre/pros are all on board!!

Bob

That is very far from the truth.. SACD supeiority is not a given both theoretical and practical grounds... It could be argued that SACD is theoretically inferior to good old Red Book CD...
This said test this for yourself... Compare a good CD player such as the Rega Apollo to a $100 SACD player... or to even a SACD palyer of similar (Apollo) price..

Bob

That is very far from the truth.. SACD supeiority is not a given both theoretical and practical grounds... It could be argued that SACD is theoretically inferior to good old Red Book CD...
This said test this for yourself... Compare a good CD player such as the Rega Apollo to a $100 SACD player... or to even a SACD palyer of similar (Apollo) price..

Frantz,

I would be interested to learn how SACD is not theoretically superior to redbook. I agree that well-mastered redbook CDs sound better than average SACDs. However, my experience and ears tell me that a well-mastered SACD will sound considerably better than its redbook counterpart, even using an inexpensive source.

I'm with Frantz. I think maybe there are some things better about SACD, but I think it could be easily demonstrated that some things are worse. I know Meridian legitimately felt that supporting SACD was like legitimizing objectively inferior sound. I always thought they sounded a bit fuzzy in the midrange to me. But maybe I'm just used to CD. CD *is* pretty amazing. Audiophiles don't give it enough credit and oftentimes blame their mediocre sound on CD rather than their mediocre, but overpriced audio systems. Solid system building has given way to "Quien es mas macho?" and then CD catches the blame for the rough edges. SACD just seems to euphonic to me on a good system, though certainly not bad or anything.

myself, several models including

-Krell DVD Standard
-Proceed PMDT/SDI /VP
-Lexicon RT-10
-Denon high end... et al

Ooooph!

Not me! Good digital reproduction is way too INexpensive to waste money!

I remember A/Bing a $2000 DAC for several hours vs a $400 Denon CD player over really high-end headphones 15 years ago. Luckily, they both had the same voltage output, so the sound was seamless between the two. Both sounded identical during the music, but the Denon was *much* quieter between songs! I wouldn't say I gave up on high-end digital, but I did become a *lot* more skeptical and it saved me a *lot* of money :) I only participate in this forum because there is no "Almost spent $20K" forum ;)

you know, many of us have spent big bucks on high end DVD players:

myself, several models including

-Krell DVD Standard
-Proceed PMDT/SDI /VP
-Lexicon RT-10
-Denon high end... et al

none come close to the 'cheap Toshiba HD DVD Player' for audio and video quality...and yet, because of the 'format war' it is criticized for its faults

I will gladly order the 2nd gen XA2 which is still a bargain at $1k: the 'State of the Art' is definitely advancing :)

I hope BD can offer the same advances too...
I wish BD would just go away. The brands you mention are not inferior to the Toshiba because of any superiority of build quality on Toshiba's part. I think time will show that when the playing field is level and the companies that you mentioned produce players that can utilized the high rez audio and video, this player and all from the mass market companies will be eclipsed. I believe that when someone finally give us a report of the Lexicon MC12HD connected to the Toshiba it is going to knock the socks off the sound coming out of the Toshiba. I do not think this player is as good as it gets. Reviews of the Anthem report that it gives much better sound than this player when connected via HDMI. Is this player much better than its 500.00 price tag would suggest? Hell yeah :)! Still after having done a "level" comparison with a Cal audio 2500 player and a 24/48 dual disk, the CBIII, and the Toshiba, I say that if you think this player sounds good then just wait ;).

I'm on a similar track with an old Tate 101 processor I found on EBAY. The Tate/Fosgate 101 is clamed to be the absolute best quad synthesizer ever built. It's a 1977 design and of course all analog.

I also plan to run HD-DVD or Bluray as discrete analog. To do all this I am constructing a 10 channel switch matrix to swap the various processors. The Lexicon DC1/CP1 custom rig is great but I want some other options and the ability to use uncompressed analog from my old laser disk concerts that will never be re-released true HD because they were mastered in NTSC video not film. I have got some interesting options here such as L&R subs. 5.1 spells mono sub but with the other processor I have the ability to run stereo subs.

Now for you audiophiles: The switch matrix I am fabricating is all relays, that is a passive switch matrix. The relays will be microprocessor controlled to easily make up the different comnbinations but the control system is physically seperate from the audio wiring due to the relays. In other words this is a "straight wire" switch.

More to come!
I will have to look into this:). I ended up purchasing the Smart Devices unit for 80.00 NIB. This will be a relatively cheap experiment for me.

Still after having done a "level" comparison with a Cal audio 2500 player and a 24/48 dual disk, the CBIII, and the Toshiba, I say that if you think this player sounds good then just wait ;).

I agree. Its great that this cheapo Toshiba sounds so outstanding in my system
for HD DVD using analog multi-channel outputs via the Six Shooter. The Future is bright with HDMI but will take time.

you know, many of us have spent big bucks on high end DVD players:

myself, several models including

-Krell DVD Standard
-Proceed PMDT/SDI /VP
-Lexicon RT-10
-Denon high end... et al

none come close to the 'cheap Toshiba HD DVD Player' for audio and video quality...and yet, because of the 'format war' it is criticized for its faults

I will gladly order the 2nd gen XA2 which is still a bargain at $1k: the 'State of the Art' is definitely advancing :)

I hope BD can offer the same advances too...

My sentiments exactly.. I have also compared the Toshiba to many high rnd DVD players and it surpasses them all in most areas plus on HD there is no contest... I am just wating for the XA2 to come and will gladly pay for it... I will also acquire a BD player maybe the Pioneer or the Sony..
And yes!! the analog HD sound output is better than anything you have ever heard from a a DVD

I just purchased the Toshiba A2 HD DVD player and can only use an optical output. However, I noticed that the CB III will lose audio for 2-3 seconds if change chapters with the remote. Can someone try and duplicate that with the A1?

John

I do have this behavior with coaxial cooming from a CD player.

I just purchased the Toshiba A2 HD DVD player and can only use an optical output. However, I noticed that the CB III will lose audio for 2-3 seconds if change chapters with the remote. Can someone try and duplicate that with the A1?

John

The length of time lag depends on interaction of player/satellite - cable receiver and CB3. The time lag is on purpose to avoid any loud bursts of noise upon switching sources or channels - be glad you have it. The CB2 had a "problem" in that regard - but the problem is the source, not the CB2/3. That's why the CB3
has this time lag, to avoid that loud burst that can damage your speakers especially blowing out tweeters.

Some things about the difference between the sound of the Theta CBIII and the Toshiba HD Dvd player have become more apparent. One thing that I noticed about the Toshiba is that the sound is a bit warm and the highs are not as extended as with some sound tracks via the CBIII. This is really more of a good thing. Actually, I believe some of the sound tracks on regular dvd are too bright. The biggest thing I have found is that using the shelf EQ feature in the CBIII really tames the brightness of these sound tracks. If you have not experimented with the shelf EG I would suggest that you do so right away. Hit the Balance button and then press the A-D button, next press button 3 EQ, then use the up and down levels button on the CBIII to select between 1,2,3,4 for the EQ depending on how much you want roll off the highs. I think it starts from about 1db to 3 db if memory serves. Some sound tracks are really bright sounding. I find the Shelf EG a must with those. Once you try it, it is simple enough to turn on and off.