Another One Bites the Dust

Not-so-proud new member of the group. I play 5-6 hours per week for the past few months. Purchased in Dec 06'. Wasn't lucky enough to get a real English speaking person, but at least I could understand her.

Coffin en route. Suppose I'll just have to watch HDTV to eat up my free time.

Sickening that this type of flaw is ignored so blatantly by the manufacturer.
Sickening

Skid

Edit: Oh yeah, I choose to blame Spyder for this problem. If I didn't send him a pm about the x-clamp fix this never would have happened.
I actually put more faith in that claim than the issue actually being addressed and solved.

Well? What error code did you have?

Sorry, haven't had a chance....I will later tonight and post back.

**EDit

I just tried and my 360 started up fine. I didn't have time to try and play anything, so I will turn it on again later to see if I get the red lights again(I'm sure I will at some point)...the lights came on right away yesterday.

This has me concerned now. I am assuming MS will check it out anyway even if it starts up for them?

There is a theory floating around the nets that MS is sending out a 'signal' to the units to CAUSE the RRoD. They are basically doing a silent recall without having to announce it and systematically fixing ALL the old boxes. They are doing this in waves to keep the process as quick as possible and not overwhelm the repair center. My best friend was a victim of this supposed theory, while he was watching football.. he glanced over to the box and it was flashing RRoD.. while it was OFF! He hadn't used it that day. Explain that.

edit: since my post on page 31/#925, my 360 has been working fine, and I was able to finish Halo3 without a problem. AFTER I had gotten the RRoD?!

There is a theory floating around the nets that MS is sending out a 'signal' to the units to CAUSE the RRoD. They are basically doing a silent recall without having to announce it and systematically fixing ALL the old boxes. They are doing this in waves to keep the process as quick as possible and not overwhelm the repair center. My best friend was a victim of this supposed theory, while he was watching football.. he glanced over to the box and it was flashing RRoD.. while it was OFF! He hadn't used it that day. Explain that.

edit: since my post on page 31/#925, my 360 has been working fine, and I was able to finish Halo3 without a problem. AFTER I had gotten the RRoD?!

Conspiracy theories will always be there. Some will scoff, some will believe. It's certiainly possible...reminds me of the Dish vs. Canada "WWF signal of doom" a few years back.

Well? What error code did you have?

Alright, well, I am an idiot. I was pushing the "sync" button on the controller and not the machine itself. That's what I was doing wrong.

Anyway, mine is 0102 Guess, i have no choice but to send it in (without voiding my warranty anyway.)

Alright, well, I am an idiot. I was pushing the "sync" button on the controller and not the machine itself. That's what I was doing wrong.

Anyway, mine is 0102 Guess, i have no choice but to send it in (without voiding my warranty anyway.)

0102. Simple fix. Oh well, at least you have 6-8 weeks to enjoy the new fall programming or football while waiting for MS to send you another unit that will die again within 12 months.

0102. Simple fix. Oh well, at least you have 6-8 weeks to enjoy the new fall programming or football while waiting for MS to send you another unit that will die again within 12 months.

:) I read the x-clamp instructions and don't understand a damn thing. At least I do have about 10 shows I watch. Plus, I played the first 3 levels of Halo last night at my friends, so I've had my fix. This one's going to MS, when it happens again, I'll let all of you know and maybe you can help me through PM on how to do the x-clamp fix.

So when you get a unit back from microsoft is the manufactured date the date that they sealed your system back up after a repair? I can't imagine they would just toss out the old one.

Well, its been going good for about a week, LOL. Since I opened up the unit for the second time its been running fine. Last night I experienced some lock ups and one ocassion where I was playing a demo and lost picture completely(screen went black). Shut system off and rebooted. I got the same thing NO PICTURE at all. No RROD. ?? I assume there is a point where continually opening the unit and trying to "rectify" the problem is compromising the longevity of the system? !

So when you get a unit back from microsoft is the manufactured date the date that they sealed your system back up after a repair? I can't imagine they would just toss out the old one.

From what I have been reading from earlier posts, yes. My "guess" from reading other posts is that MS seems to get your system, test that it is in deed broken. They then either fix your system and send the same one back to you (rare) or they send you another re-furb system with a new manufacturing date. Mine will be on it's way back tomorrow. My guess of what will happpen:

1.MS gets it and it either sits there for a day or two, or they check to make sure it's broken.

2.Finding it's broken, they will probably send an already fixed re-furb back to me and put mine in a "to be fixed" pile.

I'm guessing mine is in the "we'll just let it sit for a minimum of 3 or 4 weeks" pile.

I'm guessing mine is in the "we'll just let it sit for a minimum of 3 or 4 weeks" pile.

That's where mine was. It took just ander a month from "CHOKE" to Back Home.

So when you get a unit back from microsoft is the manufactured date the date that they sealed your system back up after a repair? I can't imagine they would just toss out the old one.

I assume they toss the dead carcass on the pile and ship them to another departement where they actually install the new heatsink and clean and test them out to be sent to someone else.

Okay I just had something strange happen. Turned on my 360 and got 3RROD but the box booted up without a problem to the dashboard and then started a game loaded and began playing then after about 5 minutes it froze up. All of this while RROD were flashing ?????

Mine got the 0020 error about two weeks ago...I ordered the coffin online and got it a few days ago...I did not feel ready to stop playing for 4 weeks (Halo, finishing Bioshock) so I did the towel trick and it has been solid for about 5 days now...I know I'll need to send it in at some point but now is not the time :D

Got my replacement 360, everything was going great, then i got another disc read error. Took out the disc and my new NHL08 game had circular scratches.

Got my replacement 360, everything was going great, then i got another disc read error. Took out the disc and my new NHL08 game had circular scratches.

Just curious, do you stand yours vertical or horizontal?

I'm contemplating fixing my unit AGAIN and trading it for newer 360(with HDMI and Zephyr motherboard) and save myself some frustration. Not to say it wont happen to the newer units but at least I'm covered under warranty.

I'm contemplating fixing my unit AGAIN and trading it for newer 360(with HDMI and Zephyr motherboard) and save myself some frustration. Not to say it wont happen to the newer units but at least I'm covered under warranty.

Do you know what the normal trade-in value is for a 360? I'm thinking about doing this once my 360 gets back from being 'repaired' and then just picking one up at Costco. Its much easier IMO to box it up and take it back to Costco than put-up with the back-and-forth 'fix' from MS.

Do you know what the normal trade-in value is for a 360? I'm thinking about doing this once my 360 gets back from being 'repaired' and then just picking one up at Costco. Its much easier IMO to box it up and take it back to Costco than put-up with the back-and-forth 'fix' from MS.

Well I called Gamestop yesterday and normal trade value for Pro system with wireless controller is $150 and you get another $20 bonus with a promotion they are running now, bringing total to $170. You can also trade the 20gig HD for another $15.
With the Pro system selling for $350 now that trade in is just shy of half price of new unit. Now the newer units have HDMI and zephyr motherboard. If your trading an older system that has RROD'd before and will again at any moment that doesn't sound like a bad deal. It's like trading a near faulty/faulty piece of equipment for $170. Now just pray that when you bring the unit in for trade it doesn't RROD on you when they fire up in the store:(:(:(
Speaking of trading in consoles, do they just fire it up to see if it boots up to the dashboard or do they put a game in? I might just do the towel trick before I trade it should by me enough time before it RROD's.

bringing total to $170. You can also trade the 20gig HD for another $15.

This is a tough call. I'm debating going this route as well...selling my refurb to gamestop then just buying a new one from Costco. I guess I could keep my HD and pick up a Core for $299 minus the $170. Then pray it has the HDMI slot cuz I would've sold the component cable back to gamestop w/ the refurb unit.

With the MS extended warranty, can you get a prorated refund if you don't want it anymore? I'm also planning on getting one at Costco at some point and of course I won't need MS's extended warranty anymore...

I'm contemplating fixing my unit AGAIN and trading it for newer 360(with HDMI and Zephyr motherboard) and save myself some frustration. Not to say it wont happen to the newer units but at least I'm covered under warranty.

WAIT the Falcon boards are on the boat now, should be on shelves soon. Wait for them, my Zephyr (Elite) died in less than 2 months. RRoD.

With the MS extended warranty, can you get a prorated refund if you don't want it anymore? I'm also planning on getting one at Costco at some point and of course I won't need MS's extended warranty anymore...

That saved me twice. Ya gotta figure this will be added to their 90 day list soon.

This is a tough call. I'm debating going this route as well...selling my refurb to gamestop then just buying a new one from Costco. I guess I could keep my HD and pick up a Core for $299 minus the $170. Then pray it has the HDMI slot cuz I would've sold the component cable back to gamestop w/ the refurb unit.

If you trade it in to Gamestop, don't you only get store credit? If so, you wouldn't be able to use that money at Costco. You could buy the system from Costco and use the $170 for future game purposes though.

WAIT the Falcon boards are on the boat now, should be on shelves soon. Wait for them, my Zephyr (Elite) died in less than 2 months. RRoD.

Hmmm this is interesting. I wonder when they will actually be in store? I read an article on Teamxbox that someone opened their Halo 3 edition console to find out that the innards looked very different possibly with the 65nm cpu.
http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/14674/New-Xbox-360-Innards-Spotted-Have-65nm-CPUs-Arrived/

Well gamespot only has promotion for bonus trade hardware until 10/21, is it worth waiting? Also how many redesigns do we have to endure with this 360? I mean when the Zephyr motherboard came out with the elites it was supposed to be better(more reliable), but we see the elites dying too. Why should we think the Falcon will be without fault? It's a crapshoot as far as I'm concerned!!

Just curious, do you stand yours vertical or horizontal?
Horizontal, on a very steady shelf. What i'm not sure of is when i bought NHL08, the disc wasnt fastened and may have gotten scratched in the shipping process. My worry was the perfect circle, but i'm just taking it back to Gamestop and getting another disc to see if it was just bad packaging

I wonder if some people just own two 360's and when one breaks down they use the other while they send the broken one in to be fixed.

With the MS extended warranty, can you get a prorated refund if you don't want it anymore? I'm also planning on getting one at Costco at some point and of course I won't need MS's extended warranty anymore...

I believe I read somewhere that you can change the serial number on the extended warranty you purchased from MS and keep the warranty yourself. Sorry, but I can't remember where it was that I found this information. I doubt that MS will refund the $$$ you paid for the warranty, but you can always try. If they don't refund you the $$$ it could at least be insurance if Costco changes their policy to include consoles, although unless Costco is getting shafted by MS I'm sure they're getting some sort of compensation for all the defective consoles they're returning.

I wonder if some people just own two 360's and when one breaks down they use the other while they send the broken one in to be fixed.

I don't think I could do this based on principal alone.

Maybe waiting for the Falcon may not be the utopia some had hoped for:
http://www.n4g.com/News-71365.aspx

granted this is one case but the halo 3 consoles just came out!:eek::eek: This does not inspire confidence in the 65nm chips

Maybe waiting for the Falcon may not be the utopia some had hoped for:
http://www.n4g.com/News-71365.aspx

granted this is one case but the halo 3 consoles just came out!:eek::eek: This does not inspire confidence in the 65nm chips
It is still unconfirmed if the 65nm are even out and if they are if all the H3 consoles even have them.

Though if you ask me...Anyone who sits any electronics on the carpet if asking for trouble.

#$%&!!!
I swear, this thread is going to be the death of me. :mad:

"I'm waiting for the 360 with the 34.7 picometer processors, the Galapogos Booby motherboard, a titanium case, the dilithium crystal heatsinks, and the quantum flux capacitor fans, because it's going to be sooooo great and never, ever have any issues! When are those coming out?"

Yeah, and a new, improved 14.38" tailfin is going to be added to the Yugo, thus magically turning it into the most reliable, attractive, fantastic, luxurious, and hottest-selling car in the history of the world! :rolleyes:

:mad: Someone please stop the misinformation madness!!! :mad:

It is still unconfirmed if the 65nm are even out and if they are if all the H3 consoles even have them.

Though if you ask me...Anyone who sits any electronics on the carpet if asking for trouble.

Well according to some on xbox.com forums not all of the H3 consoles have the new chip. It has been deduced that if the lot # on console is 734 or greater and build date of 8/24/07 or later there COULD be a possibility that it MAY have the newer 65nm chip.

So, went out and exchanged my NHL08 at gamestop since the other one was scratched. Mid game tonight, my 360 stopped playing i took the disc out and had circular scratches again. Called MS and got no help other than offering another coffin. I told them to wait on setting a repair order, gonna have a nice chat tomorrow with a manager

So, went out and exchanged my NHL08 at gamestop since the other one was scratched. Mid game tonight, my 360 stopped playing i took the disc out and had circular scratches again. Called MS and got no help other than offering another coffin. I told them to wait on setting a repair order, gonna have a nice chat tomorrow with a manager

that sux...there have been problems with some drives causing scratching....don't know the specifics though. Let us know how you make out.

My coffin arrived yesterday. Sux because it wasn't delivered until 7:30pm, so I couldn't mail it out yesterday. It will be mailed today, but now, instead of getting to TX on Friday it will be Monday (or Tuesday if UPS observes Columbus Day).

Hi guys - I was hoping you could answer a question for me. My launch 360 died about a month ago (due to non-RROD issues; the system froze during the Xbox 360 symbol loading screen) and it was fixed under my Microsoft extended warranty and arrived back today. I noticed that the serial number is different and that the manufacturing date on this console is 9-14-07. However, this unit lacks the HDMI port. My understanding is that all units made since roughly mid-summer incorporate HDMI. May I assume that I've received a refurbished console instead? Or, might it be my same console with a new shell (which I'd imagine is unlikely)? I'd like to know because I plan to put the unit on eBay as I went out and purchased a new HDMI premium from Best Buy with their extended warranty plan. That way if (or I should say "when") my new HDMI 360 breaks I can simply swap it out at Best Buy without having to wait a month. Thoughts?

Hi guys - I was hoping you could answer a question for me. My launch 360 died about a month ago (due to non-RROD issues; the system froze during the Xbox 360 symbol loading screen) and it was fixed under my Microsoft extended warranty and arrived back today. I noticed that the serial number is different and that the manufacturing date on this console is 9-14-07. However, this unit lacks the HDMI port. My understanding is that all units made since roughly mid-summer incorporate HDMI. May I assume that I've received a refurbished console instead? Or, might it be my same console with a new shell (which I'd imagine is unlikely)? I'd like to know because I plan to put the unit on eBay as I went out and purchased a new HDMI premium from Best Buy with their extended warranty plan. That way if (or I should say "when") my new HDMI 360 breaks I can simply swap it out at Best Buy without having to wait a month. Thoughts?
Yep that is your refurb date. Just make sure you state it is a refurb when you are selling it. Also I am not sure but I think they now give the refurbs a 1 year warranty and the 3 year for RROD. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

Well got my replacement in yesterday. First call to MS was on the 6th of Sept. and got the replacement on the 3rd of Oct. so right at 4 weeks for the whole process. I never got an email or anything...it just showed up.

I've got about 6 hours of gaming on it and so far so good. The drive's a bit noiser than my release day unit but neither were what I'd call quiet.:rolleyes:

Thanks RTRic. I'm going to sell it to a coworker for $200 instead of putting it on eBay. Used premiums are going for roughly $250 right now and I'd like to give her a deal. Regarding the warranty, I think you are correct. However, mine was fixed under the Microsoft extended warranty which I purchased after I got the console in December 2005 (it expires in January 2009 - one year standard + three years extended = 4 years total).

I wonder if some people just own two 360's and when one breaks down they use the other while they send the broken one in to be fixed.

I use to have 2 for that reason. But when my last one died I bought an Elite from BestBuy with the 2 year replacement warranty. So now when mine dies I just go to BB and get a new one. Sold my second box on Ebay.:D

Now I don't know if it has been stated, but a product replacement plan isn't "If your system breaks down (insert store) replaces it for free unlimited times for the duration of the contract." If your product is replaced you have to purchase an entirely new plan because the other one fulfilled the contract.

While I realize that the folks at my Best Buy could be wrong, I was told that I could bring in a broken 360 as many times as necessary during the first year of the performance plan. After verifying that the unit wasn't working at the service counter they would replace it with one off the shelf (assuming they had them in stock, of course). However, after that first year they would do only one more replacement. After that, they would send the unit in to Microsoft to be repaired. This is incongruent with what the guy who worked in the videogame area told me. He stated that I could get a replacement from the shelf for the entire duration of the contract.

If it is true that you need to purchase a new warranty after getting a replacement unit, that's totally not cool. The extra money I paid for an extended warranty should cover the product for the life of the warranty - even if the specific unit I originally purchased needed to be replaced.

Funny stuff. A little reading on the XBox forums will easily reveal from other member's experiences that BB and other B&M stores do indeed "honor" the warantees they sell, but only by having you send the unit to MS for repair...thus making the in-house "warantee" useless. ("PriceInc" excluded.)

Spyder - I've heard the same thing. However, I've also seen posts where people will take their broken 360 in to Best Buy and upgrade to the Elite version or the HDMI version. I really don't care how it works out as long as I would get a working unit back quickly. However, I shouldn't be told one thing at a store and then not have them follow through when the time comes.

I agree completely, Scott. That's why I always tell people to get a manager (not a department head, not an assistant) to sign the warantee purchase form or receipt and include a hand-written note at the bottom of the warantee stating that they personally guarantee stating whatever it is that was promised with a signature.

Whew, sounds like you guys encountered some people who were just trying to sell those plans for numbers. People get fired for that at the Best Buy I worked at last year.

A Best Buy Product Replacement Plan replaces the product one time and that's it.

A Performance Service Plan means that the store will pay for any repair costs and if you have to get it repaired over 3 times they replace the product. (Something similar to a lemon law with cars.)

All the information on that kind of stuff is written in the pamphlet, which any one of the employees at Best Buy would give you and they're always all over the store since they are required to offer you whichever plan is available every time.

EB/GS just does the one time replacement for $50. Its pretty weird because they will open up a system in front of you and replace only what you bring to them. So if you leave your Power Cord, controller, av cord, or whatever at home, they will keep it (Probably to sell as used for profit). They didn't even give me a box to put my stuff in. Here's the kicker in July 2007 I gave them a console with a manufactured date of September 2006. The system they gave me out of the box was manufactured July 2006. It lasted about 2 monthes and now I'm trying out Microsoft. I sent it in Sept 11th and am still waiting.

So, let me ensure my understanding: hypothetically speaking, let's say that my new 360 dies tomorrow. I bring it in to Best Buy and they will replace it with one off the shelf after ensuring that the problem does exist. I would then need to purchase another performance plan if I want that one to be replaced if that one breaks as well, correct? (and etc. for each subsequent unit). In short, I'd need to spend $60.00 extra with each unit for the ability to get it replaced in the store?

Man, I love my Xbox but this whole quality thing is horrible :)

Sorry if I may have offended anyone in my previous message, I just wanted to share my experiences so others may know what to expect. (We're on a forum, so a grain of salt is needed.)

Scott sounds right. If you are uncertain of anything I recommend speaking with a manager and reading the contract for the "extended warranty" in whatever store you're looking into.

It was nice getting a new system instead of having to send it in for a month to get back a refurbished system.

After almost 2 years of no problems,my xbox 360 from the official launch(i'm one of those clowns that stood on line all night)has the three red lights.I guess i should be glad that microsoft is still covering it(waiting for coffin),but why are all these new electronics so crappily made at top price?

...why are all these new electronics so crappily made at top price?

Planned obsolescence. Here's the 360 plan:

MS puts out wonky white model and implements craptacular X-Clamp design, knowing that 120GB black model with HDMI is coming soon and people will most assuredly upgrade in fear of death. New model has same shitastic design, but has a new piece of metal (heatsink) that doesn't do anything. That's OK, says MS, since Halo 3 model coming soon and has new, smaller chips that are sure to burn even hotter. Again, same fecal design remains. By the time these conk out, the new 720 will be out in hot pink and a magical liquid cooling method that dries up in exactly 92 days...or precisely 48 hours after the warantee runs out. MS will refill it with H20 for only a $300 fee.

I'm in the club now.:(

I know...I know no one likes big brother sticking his nose in everyones business but why hasn't the FTC or some other gov. agency opened investigations into these mass failures? Or is the extended warranty an appeasement to the gov?

Can the gov. mandate a recall of consumer electronics like they do vehicles?
I mean if 30%+ of Ford F150's had a defect that kept the truck from running I would bet the gov. would be involved. Yes there's a large value difference between a truck and 360 but still...100's of thousands of people are getting setup to be screwed royally buy MS within a few years.

It appears to be a design flaw so an extended warranty only goes so far. Yes I got my refurb'd replacement but what happens next year or the year after when the 3 year warranties start expiring yet the failures continue in the refurbs.?. Best case MS is using the warranty extension to buy them some time to get a real fix in place and units will be replaced with truely stable unit. If not, and they expect people to repeatedly pay for repairing a product with widespread and well known problems due to inherent design flaws then i predict huge trouble for MS.

I had to "lemon law" a vehicle once and the manufacture bought it back. Do lemon laws apply to consumer electronics?

I'm no fan of heavy gov. involvement but who is supposed to protect the consumer in a situation like this?

...what happens next year or the year after when the 3 year warranties start expiring yet the failures continue in the refurbs?...

Nothing happens. The consumer gets screwed without so much as a kiss. MS drops all support for the 360, since the XBox 720 is likely to be out by then, as MS will once again rush the unit to stay ahead of Sony's PS4 with HD/Blu combo unit that runs an "outrageous" $50 more, and Nintendo's 720p console with eyelid-activated controllers that costs $50 less. :rolleyes:

XBox will spend billions in marketing, telling everyone how reliable the new unit is supposed to be, and fanboys all over the globe will spout on and on about the "purdy pictures" while buying into the glorified exhaltation of being an early adopter and the hype will once again reign supreme. :confused:

The XBox 720 will have 40 FPS games in the first year and maybe 2 non-FPS games. The largest of these titles will be the suprise announcement of Halo 4, which will have a whopping 0.01% of "all-new" content over the overly-rehashed game, Halo 1.2.3. (Rumor has it that one of the flowers will be a slightly different color, thus making for an entirely different game. Don't forget...you heard it here first!) ;)

I'm not sure if this was covered or not, but couldn't you just buy another 360 and put the defective one in the new box and return it? Either say it didn't work when you took it out, or don't say anything? When I bought my x-box they didn't scan any serial numbers or anything.

-Dan

I'm not sure if this was covered or not, but couldn't you just buy another 360 and put the defective one in the new box and return it? Either say it didn't work when you took it out, or don't say anything? When I bought my x-box they didn't scan any serial numbers or anything.

-Dan

You can try it but the probability of looking like a total jackass at the return counter is very high. When you buy a 360 they have the serial # and no two are the same, so good luck trying that simplistic but confounded plan. If they really did NOT scan your serial # when you bought it, it was a either a horrible oversight(not sure how they can even make a sale without) or you hit the jackpot.

BTW, I did end up trading my launch system for the new HDMI equipped premium. And if you read my sig then you know what my launch sytem has gone through. Considering that, they gave me $185 for my old system with HD trade too(I allready had one). I'm not complaining, the machine could and would RROD at any moment. I was sweating bullets, fingers crossed, and in deep prayer when they plugged it in. It fired up fine but the sales geek tried like 2 different sets of batteries in the controller the first of which were dead. Meanwhile my 360 is revving louder as if heading toward climax where it will inevitably fail. He loads in Madden 08, it works fine. he gets to the start screen and says, "Looks like its running fine." I was like, "Damn right." All of this while the machine had RROD for the last 2 days before I traded it. I'd like to that the geek who discovered the "towel trick" which enabled me to trade this ill-fated machine for a newer ill-fated machine....LOL Oh well I MS got my back on this one. "NOT".

Maybe I did hit the jackpot, but the only place on the box where the serial number is displayed is under that flap correct? If that is true, then mine was never scanned.

-Dan

Maybe I did hit the jackpot, but the only place on the box where the serial number is displayed is under that flap correct? If that is true, then mine was never scanned.

-Dan

I always wonder if the serial number is at all built into the barcode where their system can store it but it doesn't show up on the receipt...places like Fry's tend to check hardware for serial number matches but I'm not sure about places like Costco...I don't see a serial number at all on the receipt so I don't think they do check...definitely risky though because if they did catch it you would definitely have "jackass status"...

Immoral (and, imo, what should be considered illegal) tactics should not be discussed nor encouraged on AVS. Let's drop this topic altogether before the mods are forced to step in with the hammer.

fair enough, no more speak....but IMHO it's immoral for a company to rush a defective product on the market and then not bother to fix the problem. On to the next subject :)

-Dan

fair enough, no more speak....but IMHO it's immoral for a company to rush a defective product on the market and then not bother to fix the problem. On to the next subject :)

-Dan

I couldn't agree more, McVicker. If you read my previous posts, nobody, and I mean nobody, is harder on MS than myself. However, it's not the fault of BB/CC/CostCo/etc. that MS thinks John Q. Public should be their beta testers. If the shoddy X-Clamp design hadn't made me a pretty penny the past year, I'd show my disapproval by going solely with Nintendo or Sony. The only thing Gates and Co. understands is a hit in the pocketbook.

Immoral (and, imo, what should be considered illegal) tactics should not be discussed nor encouraged on AVS. Let's drop this topic altogether before the mods are forced to step in with the hammer.

Agree.

Now I don't know if it has been stated, but a product replacement plan isn't "If your system breaks down (insert store) replaces it for free unlimited times for the duration of the contract." If your product is replaced you have to purchase an entirely new plan because the other one fulfilled the contract.
No, You are correct. It is not a replace your product for the life of the contract plan. Now I don't know if this is just for the 360 or not but I have talked to 4 different people about the Product Replacement Plan(PRP) at Best Buy. I only have it on the 360 and they all said the same thing. The two year PRP lets you exchange the broken console unlimited amount of times for the first year only. The second year you get one exchange and then your PRP "contract" is now considered filled. So then you would have to purchase another PRP if you want that final 360 covered under the PRP. They said that you can return any defective 360 consoles as many times as needed cuz while they are still under the full warranty all they have to do is ship them back to MS. After the first year then it is out of the "full" warranty so then you get only one exchange. The RROD warranty is considered a "limited" warranty so it doesn't apply here. Hope that helps those of you that are confused.

When you ship your 360 after they send you the coffin, is your tracking number the same as the coffin? I shipped my 360 this morning and when I try to track the 360 (receipt from shipping this AM shows same tracking number) it only lists the date of when M$ sent the coffin...there is no tracking for its trip to M$ yet...

Now Im in the club:mad: This thing must have timed out with 3 rings of death BS. I took and air blasted it, let it sit, unplugged yada yada yada. DEAD. So now I have to contact MS and see whats next. One word.....JUNK.

When you ship your 360 after they send you the coffin, is your tracking number the same as the coffin? I shipped my 360 this morning and when I try to track the 360 (receipt from shipping this AM shows same tracking number) it only lists the date of when M$ sent the coffin...there is no tracking for its trip to M$ yet...

The tracking # is on the UPS slip, if thats what you have, it took 24 hours for mine to show up in the tracking system.

Well got my replacement in yesterday. First call to MS was on the 6th of Sept. and got the replacement on the 3rd of Oct. so right at 4 weeks for the whole process. I never got an email or anything...it just showed up.

I've got about 6 hours of gaming on it and so far so good. The drive's a bit noiser than my release day unit but neither were what I'd call quiet.:rolleyes:

I got my Elite back today. I sent it off on September 17th so it took right at 3 weeks plus Columbus Day. UPS just left it at the door and thankfully it was there when I got home from work. No email notice from MS. Could never get the online service to register my console so could not track it that way either.

So far, so good.

I got my Elite back today...UPS just left it at the door and thankfully it was there when I got home from work.

Wow. UPS won't leave anything at my door, even if I request it. Maybe they deliver so many refurbs that they figure it's no big deal if someone steals garbage from someone's welcome mat. ;)

Wow. UPS won't leave anything at my door, even if I request it. Maybe they deliver so many refurbs that they figure it's no big deal if someone steals garbage from someone's welcome mat. ;)

LOL

Wow. UPS won't leave anything at my door, even if I request it. Maybe they deliver so many refurbs that they figure it's no big deal if someone steals garbage from someone's welcome mat. ;)

Actually having them just drop it off may not be as good as you think.

Our UPS and FedEX guys are so bad here they leave stuff propped against garage doors. The other day they left a package against my sister's garage door and her husband backed out over the package.:eek:

They do that at my house all the time also...luckily I always check outside my door before backing out.

Another time they left a $1k power amp out in the rain(not protected) at her house...what's worse is all they have to do is walk 20ft. and they could leave packages on her nice covered porch.:mad:

My sister finally had enough and called them so now they have standing instructions to leave everything on the porch.

I particularly loved when Fed Ex left my Direct TV HR 20 out in the front of my townhouse, with a small clear bag over top of it in a complete rain storm not taking into effect that the base of the box was sitting in water

I recently got the three red lights failure, did the song and dance with xbox, they are sending a coffin (Unit failed Sept 23, called the 24th, still no coffin.). I am curious if the "NEW" 360's they are sending are truly new or just someone else's refurbished 360. No offence but I don't want someone elses broken/patched Xbox, so those of you who have gotten a "new" xbox do the build dates seem current? PS I got Halo 3 on the 25th , DOH!

...I am curious if the "NEW" 360's they are sending are truly new or just someone else's refurbished 360...

No need to be curious, since a simple reading of this thread will easily answer that. :confused:

My Xbox 360 which was manufactured on 11/3/2005 finally got the RROD! I guess it will eventually happen to all Xbox 360s. I am just not very happy that it happened a couple of weeks after the Halo 3 release and only a few weeks before COD 4 come out!

I recently got the three red lights failure, did the song and dance with xbox, they are sending a coffin (Unit failed Sept 23, called the 24th, still no coffin.). I am curious if the "NEW" 360's they are sending are truly new or just someone else's refurbished 360. No offence but I don't want someone elses broken/patched Xbox, so those of you who have gotten a "new" xbox do the build dates seem current? PS I got Halo 3 on the 25th , DOH!

Well, you'll get a re-furb, but I would call if you haven't gotten the box. Are you in the states? Mine died on the 25th, I called that night and got the box the following Tuesday (Oct. 2). It arrived in TX last Friday (Oct. 5).

My second system just RRODed ON MY BIRTHDAY!!! We were trying to watch a Planet Earth HD-DVD. Called it in. The system still works intermittantly, so I'm guessing there is a broken solder line in there somewhere that disconnects when the system heats up. And I so wanted to finish Bioshock and Halo3!

At least I have a PS3 so I can continue on with HS and I suppose Folklore. I wanted to play Conan and ORange Box on the 360 for achievement score and rumble (plus the 360 controller is much more comfortable for me to use for a button masher game) but I might get the PS3 versions is the 360 return takes more than a few weeks. And I already ordered Transformers as well!! Tempted to cancel that puppy now.

Well, now my hunt for a Wii has intensified! :P And a hunt for a stand alone HD-DVD player!

I think MS should do an immediate swap out to ensure rapid turn around. At this point just about anyone should be allowed to exchange a non-enhanced 360 for one with the modification since the non-enhanced 360 has proved itself to be a timebomb. I'm hoping for a "free" HDMI upgrade as well, but not holding my breath.

I think MS should do an immediate swap out to ensure rapid turn around. .

They are...but the massive amount of failures far out weighs their ability to turn units around so it takes around 4wks(with shipping).

So, let me ensure my understanding: hypothetically speaking, let's say that my new 360 dies tomorrow. I bring it in to Best Buy and they will replace it with one off the shelf after ensuring that the problem does exist. I would then need to purchase another performance plan if I want that one to be replaced if that one breaks as well, correct? (and etc. for each subsequent unit). In short, I'd need to spend $60.00 extra with each unit for the ability to get it replaced in the store?

Man, I love my Xbox but this whole quality thing is horrible :)

My second 360 died last week and I had a BB replacement plan warranty( I had to rebuy one after I exchanged my first 360) so I took it in and was told that BB does not replace units with the 3 RRoD anymore. You must send them back to MS. BB did give me my money back for the warranty

My second unit is going strong. Gave the refurb for the first away. No need to buy an extended warranty/replacement plan since MS is giving 3 years warranty. Glad you got your money back.

My second unit is going strong. Gave the refurb for the first away. No need to buy an extended warranty/replacement plan since MS is giving 3 years warranty. Glad you got your money back.

So you're saying you purchased a second one instead of using the refurb?

So you're saying you purchased a second one instead of using the refurb?

Yeah. At the time (last fall) I was temporarily handicapped and on the couch all day. Rather than wait, I bought another. When I got the first back, I saved it for backup but after a year, someone who wanted one but couldn't really afford asked if I'd sell so I gave it away.

Hope the second one lasts...

My second 360 died last week and I had a BB replacement plan warranty( I had to rebuy one after I exchanged my first 360) so I took it in and was told that BB does not replace units with the 3 RRoD anymore. You must send them back to MS. BB did give me my money back for the warranty

... You're kidding me. They /Don't/ replace them? What did I just buy a replacement plan warranty for on /my/ second one if they won't honor it?

Are you saying if it fails and I bring it in, they will offer me a refund?

Well, It looks like mines coming back. I did the track by reference today on UPS and I now have 2 tracking numbers. The first was when they sent me the coffin, the second is a "Billing Info Recieved", so I guess it goes out today. I should hopefully have it by Wednesday or definitely Thursday. I guess it depends if today counts as day 1 or not. It did when I sent the coffin to TX (dropped at the store Wednesday and recieved in TX on Friday).

... You're kidding me. They /Don't/ replace them? What did I just buy a replacement plan warranty for on /my/ second one if they won't honor it?

Are you saying if it fails and I bring it in, they will offer me a refund?

It means that BB simply gives you whatever you paid for the warantee back, tells you that you're SOL with them, and to send the POS in to MS like everyone else.

if anyone's tracking turnaround time...
my 2nd 360 RROdied on 10/5,
coffin arrived on 10/11, shipped out on 10/11 but not picked up until 10/12.


No halo3 for me. :(

It means that BB simply gives you whatever you paid for the warantee back, tells you that you're SOL with them, and to send the POS in to MS like everyone else.

Great.

I usually try to give the employees and such at Best Buy a break, since I tend to /like/ most people and try to treat them as decent human beings.

Well, what goes around comes around. I tend to believe that. Anyway, not going to let this bother me further. It's simply too nice of a day.

How long did it take for your Xbox to go from "received at servicing center" to the next step? They received mine 5 days ago but it still just says "received"...

... You're kidding me. They /Don't/ replace them? What did I just buy a replacement plan warranty for on /my/ second one if they won't honor it?

Are you saying if it fails and I bring it in, they will offer me a refund?

They told me they can do an exchange if it's any problem other than the 3 red rings. Since mine had the 3 rings, they would not honor the warranty, but they did give me my money back I paid for the warranty.

How long did it take for your Xbox to go from "received at servicing center" to the next step? They received mine 5 days ago but it still just says "received"...
took me till the 7th business day

Got my Xbox in Dec 2006, wasn't playing a lot, mostly using as media extender. Last week saw RROD while streaming music. Tried 3 times already towel trick, but it only helps for a few hours. Will be sending for repairs tomorrow, label says place is in North York, Toronto by Purolator.
Will post later results.

My Premium(build date Sep 06) died last night(error code 0102)

I called and started the repair process with MS. I will post info about the replacement once I recieve it.

took me till the 7th business day

What happens after the "received at service center" status?

Well i got my second refurb 360 back. They received it on Oct. 9 and i got it back on Oct.18 and i live in New york city. Now follow these instruction on this site on how to check if they put the new heatsink on the 360 with a camera. Link:http://benheck.com/08-02-2007/see-if-you-have-the-new-xbox-360-heatsink-without-voiding-the-precious-warranty

My 360 has the new heatsink and they send me someone's 360 with different serial and a manufacturing date of 05-02-06.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u77/nismor2/IMG_2829.jpg

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u77/nismor2/IMG_2828.jpg

If you can see the small silver heatsink and the circle copper dot which is part of the new heatpipe.
Thats good news. Btw they included 1 month free of Xbox Live card inside the return box. Good luck.

...Now follow these instruction on this site on how to check if they put the new heatsink on the 360 with a camera...If you can see the small silver heatsink and the circle copper dot which is part of the new heatpipe....Thats good news.

Why bother wasting even 10 seconds of time looking for scrap metal that does absolutely nothing? How is having an added worthless part inside your system "good news" in any way, shape, or form? :confused:

The MS misinformation machine needs to be put out of commission. NOW.

Why bother wasting even 10 seconds of time looking for scrap metal that does absolutely nothing? How is having an added worthless part inside your system "good news" in any way, shape, or form? :confused:

The MS misinformation machine needs to be put out of commission. NOW.

At least they are adding something that new 360's have. We wont get a recall' so at least you are not getting the the system back the same way you sent it in, with a flawed heatsink. I purchased the 360 and at this point i am not gonna just throw it away. If they refund all the money i spent on the system, accessories and games i would take the money in a heart beat. I have a PS3 and will be buying multiplatform games like Call of Duty 4 on the PS3 because i dont trust my 360. Microsoft will loose some of my business. Now dont be angry at me because i got a box that appears to look like they actually open that damn thing this time. I posted this because when when i have a problem i come to this site for info. This is only info for those who come here for answers. If you sent in your 360 for repair recently and you wonder if they change anything inside? The answer in my case is yes. They change the heatsink on mine as described by Xbox-scene modders who by far screw MS all the time. Will it make my 360 RROD proof? I dont know. Is it the end of the world? no. 696969 I find the quote on your Sig ironic.:confused:

Well i got my second refurb 360 back. They received it on Oct. 9 and i got it back on Oct.18 and i live in New york city.

Wow...that's a great turnaround time...mine was received on Oct. 11 and it still says "received at servicing center"...

At least they are adding something that new 360's have. We wont get a recall' so at least you are not getting the the system back the same way you sent it in, with a flawed heatsink.

I think you missed my point. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the old heatsink. Buying into MS' propaganda is common, and I'm simply tired of seeing misinformation posted again, and again, and yet again. Repeated statements, even if they are outright lies, eventually become accepted as fact. It's nothing personal against you, nismor2, but readers looking for answers deserve to know the REAL truth. Having a piece of scrap iron inside tossed inside your unit being "good news" isn't the truth at all.

I think you missed my point. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the old heatsink. Buying into MS' propaganda is common, and I'm simply tired of seeing misinformation posted again, and again, and yet again. Repeated statements, even if they are outright lies, eventually become accepted as fact. It's nothing personal against you, nismor2, but readers looking for answers deserve to know the REAL truth. Having a piece of scrap iron inside tossed inside your unit being "good news" isn't the truth at all.

The good news for me is that at least this time it looks like they actually open the system, even if is a placebo. The first time there was no way of knowing if they even opened the case. Ive should of made that clear of what i meant as "good news." I still think that physically the 360 hardware is a piece of junk period. The turnaround time suprised me.

Wow...that's a great turnaround time...mine was received on Oct. 11 and it still says "received at servicing center"...

The first time mine RRODed i filed a Better Business Bureau complaint. After a week they "waived" the repair fee and when i got it back i payed $60 for the extended warranty. I figured since i payed $400 bucks for the junk i better cover my ass and pay the extra $60. Selling it would come at a loss. Later after 3 months they sent me a check for $100 dollars which i quickly cashed and to this day i dont know why they sent it. Probably to cover their own butt. Now i dont know if the extended warranty is getting me a faster turnaround time or they keep a file history that shows that i won loose my money without a fight. Maybe the BBB file shows up when i call but, it could just be me day dreaming that i matter.

They received my 360 on the 9th and it just shipped out today. I'm not sure what's going on, but the website never updated with any information from the service center. The site has said 'No Pending Repairs' the whole time. Plus, my serial number hasn't changed either. It amazing how clueless they are and what a cluster f*** this whole thing is.

So I sent mine in on October 12. They received it on October 18 and today when i log on to support where my serial number used to be, it now says "You have no registered devices." Is this a good thing (meaning they shipped me a "new" one) or is this a bad thing?

Mine was received on October 11th and the whole time mine HAS had my serial number there and when I click it it continues to say "received at servicing center"...it's amazing how inconsistent this process is considering we are all trying to accomplish the same thing...

When i made my free long distance call to India, i ask the guy that since my serial number changed, my account online shows that i have no console registered and he said that they were updating the system's database. He said to check in 2 days but of course it was BS. Since my first RROD and serial change i have to call them to check my system's status. I get no info from the xbox support site. For the company that owns the OS we use and various internet database products, when it come to support, they play clueless.

Got my refurb back yesterday. So far, so good. Here is my timeline:

died 9/25
coffin recieved 10/2
coffin delivered to McAllen, TX 10/5
UPS track by reference updated with return tracking number 10/15
received 10/18

Total: about 23 days from death to life.

Halo3 ROCKS!!!!!

My 360 just bricked and I'm waiting for my shipping box... But There are a couple of ?'s I have that the guy from india(nna) couldn't answer. Do they have you sign a contract when you mail your 360 back for repair that gives them the right to substitute your system for another system. I'm just wondering because I have a system with a build date of 2007 and I do not want a system that is a refurb older than my system returned to me. I either want my serial #'d 360 repaired or a newer model/refund.

I swear the failure rate on these things has to be 70% or better. I babied mine and it bricked two hours into team fortress 2. And the ONE MONTH of free xbox live card is a joke.. AH I can't use your service because you built your crappy box in mexico with the cheapest components and crapiest solder known to man. But thank you for giving me a free month of service to match the month I can't use anyways while you play musical chairs with everyones 360's.

/sorry just ranting a bit...

My 360 just bricked and I'm waiting for my shipping box... But There are a couple of ?'s I have that the guy from india(nna) couldn't answer. Do they have you sign a contract when you mail your 360 back for repair that gives them the right to substitute your system for another system. I'm just wondering because I have a system with a build date of 2007 and I do not want a system that is a refurb older than my system returned to me. I either want my serial #'d 360 repaired or a newer model/refund.

I swear the failure rate on these things has to be 70% or better. I babied mine and it bricked two hours into team fortress 2. And the ONE MONTH of free xbox live card is a joke.. AH I can't use your service because you built your crappy box in mexico with the cheapest components and crapiest solder known to man. But thank you for giving me a free month of service to match the month I can't use anyways while you play musical chairs with everyones 360's.

/sorry just ranting a bit...

no contract to sign. When they fix the unit, the slap a new sticker on there with whatever the fixed date was, so I don't know that there is a way to tell. The one I just got back has a build(fix) date of 9/24/07....I have no clue if it was originally manufactured 5/07, 4/06, 11/05....etc. just when it was "fixed"

...play musical chairs with everyones 360's.

:D Now that's some funny sh!t. :D

Well, my launch unit finally RROD on me. I babied that thing to no end, and still finally got the RROD. I swear, it's not a matter of if with these things, just when.

I received my coffin about 3-4 days after I registered on their service website, and dropped it off at my local UPS store this morning. I spoke with the manager of this store, and she told me that she gets at least 10 of them per day. I couldn't believe it!

I would love to see some sort of list put together of the worst electronics ever in regards to quality. Surely the Xbox 360 would make that list, if not head line it. I mean, what a freaking embarrassment.

I hate to say it, but I totally agree with another poster here earlier in the fact that I might starting looking to my PS3 for multi-platform games. I would normally get the 360 version due to liking the controller better and the seamless Live experience, but jeez, my Orange Box video game will be sitting for the next month because I bought it on the 360. Not the best example since the PS3 version isn't out yet, but you get the point....

Got my refurb back yesterday. So far, so good. Here is my timeline:

died 9/25
coffin recieved 10/2
coffin delivered to McAllen, TX 10/5
UPS track by reference updated with return tracking number 10/15
received 10/18

Total: about 23 days from death to life.

Halo3 ROCKS!!!!!

What do you mean "track by reference"? What info do you need to provide to do that?

What do you mean "track by reference"? What info do you need to provide to do that?

Go to UPS.com click the tracking tab. There will be a box to enter up to 5 tracking numbers. Somewhere under that box, there is a link that says track by reference. Enter the reference number Microsoft gave you. It will show you the tracking number of the coffin they are sending you. When you get the coffin, copy the tracking number on that box to track the system going to TX. Once it's recieved in TX, wait about 5 business days and then start doing the track by reference on UPS using your original reference number. It will show you information for your coffin, but once they ship it back, it will show you the tracking number for your coffin AND the tracking number for your return box.

here's the link to track by reference. Enter your reference number in the box and then click the checkbox at the bottom that you accept UPS' terms of use...

http://www.ups.com/WebTracking/reference?loc=en_US

So, in my case, I recieve my coffin on 10/2 and used the tracking number on that box to track it back to MS. They recieved it on 10/5. I then started checking the track by reference on 10/11 and it would show me that my coffin was delivered on 10/2. Then, when I checked on Monday 10/15, it showed my 2 tracking numbers. The first was the coffin delivered to me and the second was for my refurb being sent back to me.

Go to UPS.com click the tracking tab. There will be a box to enter up to 5 tracking numbers. Somewhere under that box, there is a link that says track by reference. Enter the reference number Microsoft gave you. It will show you the tracking number of the coffin they are sending you. When you get the coffin, copy the tracking number on that box to track the system going to TX. Once it's recieved in TX, wait about 5 business days and then start doing the track by reference on UPS using your original reference number. It will show you information for your coffin, but once they ship it back, it will show you the tracking number for your coffin AND the tracking number for your return box.

here's the link to track by reference. Enter your reference number in the box and then click the checkbox at the bottom that you accept UPS' terms of use...

http://www.ups.com/WebTracking/reference?loc=en_US

So, in my case, I recieve my coffin on 10/2 and used the tracking number on that box to track it back to MS. They recieved it on 10/5. I then started checking the track by reference on 10/11 and it would show me that my coffin was delivered on 10/2. Then, when I checked on Monday 10/15, it showed my 2 tracking numbers. The first was the coffin delivered to me and the second was for my refurb being sent back to me.

Ok...so I put in my reference number and it brings up the delivery of my coffin...so you are saying that at some point when I enter that number it will show the shipment tracking of the xbox coming back to me?

Ok...so I put in my reference number and it brings up the delivery of my coffin...so you are saying that at some point when I enter that number it will show the shipment tracking of the xbox coming back to me?

exactly......generally about 5-7 BUSINESS days after they recieve your box in TX. For me it was 6 business days.

exactly......generally about 5-7 BUSINESS days after they recieve your box in TX. For me it was 6 business days.

It's been six for me...still nothing :(

It's been six for me...still nothing :(

my guess would be Monday. Mine arrived on Friday 10/5 it was there through Fri 10/12 and showed up on Monday 10/15

Thanks for posting that UPS reference thing. The turn around time for my 360 took considerably longer than 5-7 days though. My 360 died on Halo 3 day, and I got the coffin on Oct. 2nd. In checking the reference data on UPS, my replacement should be here tomorrow the 22nd.

Did anyone get a replacement with HDMI output?

WELL, fuc*ing 360 is dead AGAIN!!!! 1st one lasted from launch till xmas day. this one lasted from end of Jan till today!! If the PS3 had the same library of games I swear to god i would throw this ****er out the window. ****

Now its time to convince wife to let me spring for the Elite ha ha.

To those that have been receiving their 360's back recently, is a signature required upon delivery by UPS?

To those that have been receiving their 360's back recently, is a signature required upon delivery by UPS?

yes.....UPS usually calls you the day before your scheduled delivery date to inform you of this.

yes.....UPS usually calls you the day before your scheduled delivery date to inform you of this.

Is it possible to waive the signature?

Wow. UPS must have some ridiculously varied policies and degrees of service.. It was said just a few pages ago that some didn't need a signature and the unit was left on the front door. Me, I always have to sign for every last item. UPS has never, ever, ever called me for anything. Ever.

If I don't sign, they leave a note on my door. I sign the note, and can then pick the item up at their office the following day. (With a signature and ID.)

Is it possible to waive the signature?

Should be an option for the sender. I don't know about UPS for sure but I know you (the sender) can check an option to waive the signature requirement.

Wow. UPS must have some ridiculously varied policies and degrees of service.. It was said just a few pages ago that some didn't need a signature and the unit was left on the front door. Me, I always have to sign for every last item. UPS has never, ever, ever called me for anything. Ever.

If I don't sign, they leave a note on my door. I sign the note, and can then pick the item up at their office the following day. (With a signature and ID.)

That was me. I use to do what you detailed above when UPS had a distribution hub here in our town. Since they centralized to Montgomery (capital, about 50 miles East) things have changed.

Is it possible to waive the signature?

not sure, but I guess it's possible if you check out the few posts between mine and yours.

Should be an option for the sender. I don't know about UPS for sure but I know you (the sender) can check an option to waive the signature requirement.

Isn't the question about waiving the option with him being the recipient as it comes back?

my guess would be Monday. Mine arrived on Friday 10/5 it was there through Fri 10/12 and showed up on Monday 10/15

You were right :)...it shipped today although by the looks of the new serial number it is a box from March of 2006 :(...that's 3 months older than my original box...at least it would've been nice to get one that had a recent date on it (even though that only means it was refurbed recently)...even better would be if it had HDMI (wishful thinking)...hopefully when this one breaks (not if but when) it won't be right before several great games come out like this time :)...

Does anyone know what it means if a refurb has a recent date on it vs. an older one? Does the newer one mean the internals were replaced and the older ones weren't or what?

Btw, when I look online at the new serial number it says "out of warranty" and lists a date of 5/2007...I purchased the extended warranty awhile ago so does that still count now and the website is a mistake?

Hi Guys,

I haven't had time to read through all 38 pages of this thread but is it the general consensus that the "Elite" models do NOT suffer with the three flashing red lights at the same alarming rate as the "premium" consoles? Do they have higher end circuitry than the premium units and if so why don't they put the "higher end circuitry in the refurbs so people don't have to keep sending in bad consoles. I can't believe they haven't solved this problem yet. I'm on my third console.

Hi Guys,

I haven't had time to read through all 38 pages of this thread but is it the general consensus that the "Elite" models do NOT suffer with the three flashing red lights at the same alarming rate as the "premium" consoles?

Not general consensus whatsoever. I know many, many, many people that have had Elites die, sometimes in as little as 24 hours!

Do they have higher end circuitry than the premium units and if so why don't they put the "higher end circuitry in the refurbs so people don't have to keep sending in bad consoles. I can't believe they haven't solved this problem yet. I'm on my third console.

There is no "higher-end circuitry" that can be put inside to resolve the X-Clamp issue. Period.

Just got it back today. UPS did call last night to verify delivery, which is the first time that has ever happened, and I did have to sign for the package. Looks like the manufactured date is 10/4/07, but its obviously a refurb since it doesn't have an HDMI connection.

Just got it back today. UPS did call last night to verify delivery, which is the first time that has ever happened, and I did have to sign for the package. Looks like the manufactured date is 10/4/07, but its obviously a refurb since it doesn't have an HDMI connection.

So I wonder how a refurb from 10/4/07 is different from a refurb from 3/2006 (what mine will be)?

Mine finally died. Sent it in and bought a Halo 3 limited edition (not very limited though). I just wanted the HDMI input. Now when I get my old (release) version back its going on ebay.

so i thought i'd give an update on my situation. my system died on 10/4. i received the coffin on 10/11 and shipped it on 10/12. They received it on 10/19 and they shipped my "new" system back to me today 10/24. so they had it in their possession for 4 business days - not too bad. Hopefully i will have it back by friday. i just bought fifa 08 and i'm starting to chomp at the bits to give it a whirl.

after a month of having my first refurb replacement, i went on a marathon Bioshock / HalfLife2 / Portal playing binge yesterday - and then the unit started freezing about about 6 hours of gameplay. Got one red ring with a hard drive error message. tried removing the hard drive, restarting, and all i got was the 360 intro screen....put the HD back in and things were REALLY slow, but i was able to navigate to the HD to clear the cache. Things seem back on track but now i'm afraid to play the 360 for more than a couple of hours, because about a week before my first 360 died for good with the 3 red rings, this same thing happened. seems like a bad omen!!!

Well, I got a March 2006 refurb back today...the fans are three times as loud as my old one...it's not the dvd drive because this noise is when I'm just on the dashboard...oh well...I guess as long as it works for more than 9 months I'll call it a "winner"...

So I shipped from the left coast on 10/6 so it took 19 days for me...

Add me to the list. I have a 360 from Day 1 launch. I just turned it on and got the "3RRoD" I just submitted my coffin request so we'll see how long it takes.
I'm on the left coast.

My wife took my Xbox in its coffin to the UPS store yesterday. When she was there the guy behind the counter said "So, your Xbox died,huh?". My wife was suprised and asked if he gets alot of these. He said that he gets about 3 a day.

3 a day? WOW.

Add me to the list. I have a 360 from Day 1 launch. I just turned it on and got the "3RRoD" I just submitted my coffin request so we'll see how long it takes.
I'm on the left coast.

Mine was a launch day unit as well but you lasted a year longer than my RROD.

My wife took my Xbox in its coffin to the UPS store yesterday. When she was there the guy behind the counter said "So, your Xbox died,huh?". My wife was suprised and asked if he gets alot of these. He said that he gets about 3 a day.

3 a day? WOW.

Read that the failure rate was upwards of 33%. That's a boatload of 360 coffins!

Read that the failure rate was upwards of 33%. That's a boatload of 360 coffins!

Wrong. The failure rate is closer to 83% than 33%. More MS propaganda. :mad:

So does MS foot the bill for the 360's now? My BIL just got the rings. He's had his 360 for over a year but it is a launch console. Are they finally taking care of the problem or are they still charging to fix an already defective item? Thanks

So does MS foot the bill for the 360's now? My BIL just got the rings. He's had his 360 for over a year but it is a launch console. Are they finally taking care of the problem or are they still charging to fix an already defective item? Thanks
3 year warranty applies for the 3 RROD. For all other issues, the 1 year warranty applies. If he has 3 blinking red lights, then he'll be covered.

Wrong. The failure rate is closer to 83% than 33%. More MS propaganda. :mad:
You cannot be serious.

You cannot be serious.

I am absolutely 100% serious. MS keeps pulling the 33% figure out of their ass, feeding the country the same sh*t again and again, knowing full well that if they repeat that false number enough times, it will be accepted as fact. Sound like a familiar tactic?

One reason that people believe the outright lie is that they, themselves, might talk 10 people, 3 of whom will report that they have had at least one console die. But take those 10 people and break it down: 3 say they got at least one dead unit. 2 probably have dust collectors, decreasing the chance of death. 3 probably bought a unit fairly recently, and it will die soon. The remaining 2 likely did an upgrade to Elite/Halo units and their old unit is going to die on the buyer. (Throw in a +/- ratio of 2-3% that haven't ever had a failure on a launch console and you have the lucky souls that are the same people that win every office drawing and lottery, never seems to get sick, got a trophy wife they don't deserve, hav eperfect kids, and are blessed in every other aspect of life somehow.)

Another way to keep that magical 33% lie alive is to simply stock the shelves with 2X as many units as repairs are being done. "Hey, look at how many we've put out there that haven't died!" The key to that statement is the word "...YET" is missing.

The simple fact is, with the X-Clamp design, which MS refuses to replace, 100% of ALL units are guaranteed to fail. Forget 65 picometer processors, forget Talon-based mobos, forget magical pieces of aluminum, forget dilithium chambers and flux capacitors. Until the design flaw is changed, it's not a matter of IF, it's WHEN.

I am absolutely 100% serious. MS keeps pulling the 33% figure out of their ass, feeding the country the same sh*t again and again, knowing full well that if they repeat that false number enough times, it will be accepted as fact. Sound like a familiar tactic?

One reason that people believe the outright lie is that they, themselves, might talk 10 people, 3 of whom will report that they have had at least one console die. But take those 10 people and break it down: 3 say they got at least one dead unit. 2 probably have dust collectors, decreasing the chance of death. 3 probably bought a unit fairly recently, and it will die soon. The remaining 2 likely did an upgrade to Elite/Halo units and their old unit is going to die on the buyer. (Throw in a +/- ratio of 2-3% that haven't ever had a failure on a launch console and you have the lucky souls that are the same people that win every office drawing and lottery, never seems to get sick, got a trophy wife they don't deserve, hav eperfect kids, and are blessed in every other aspect of life somehow.)

Another way to keep that magical 33% lie alive is to simply stock the shelves with 2X as many units as repairs are being done. "Hey, look at how many we've put out there that haven't died!" The key to that statement is the word "...YET" is missing.

The simple fact is, with the X-Clamp design, which MS refuses to replace, 100% of ALL units are guaranteed to fail. Forget 65 picometer processors, forget Talon-based mobos, forget magical pieces of aluminum, forget dilithium chambers and flux capacitors. Until the design flaw is changed, it's not a matter of IF, it's WHEN.

NICE!

Just an update to those who are worried about turn around time...I sent mine in 10/14 and they say they just got it 10/25. I am guessing it will be another month before I get mine back. I am hoping they are way wrong and they are already sending mine back. More than likely they will lose it for another month on the way back. LOL

Doesn't really matter all that much I already bought the HDMI premium that replaces it. I was thinking I would give it to my brother but I may just give him one of the new 360 arcade with HDMI and just give him my old hard drive. I may just sell it.

You cannot be serious.

i agree with the higher number too.

100% of the guys I work with that own 360's (7 of them) are either on their second, third or even fourth 360.

that is astounding.

Here's some important info for you guys receiving replacement consoles through the MS extended warranty:


I just sent in my second console in for repairs (RRoD), it's one of the original pro/premium models w/out HDMI.

Looking through my service contract, it states:

In the rare event your Microsoft Entertainment Device can't be fixed, we'll comfort you with a replacement model.

If all else fails and our service professionals actually conclude your Microsoft Entertainment Product is beyond repair, we'll provide you with a replacement including the latest features. So your Microsoft Service Contract can pay for itself several times over with this benefit alone.

The last time I checked the HDMI port is considered the latest feature and now comes standard with the pro/premium consoles.

Point is, if you send in an older console w/o HDMI and Microsoft can't fix it and sends you back a machine other than the one you sent in, you're entitled to a newer console w/HDMI, don't settle for anything less!

I pointed this fact out to two supervisers and both gave me a hard time and refused to honor the agreement, and said I'll only get back a non/HDMI console like the one I sent in. This morning I spoke with a third supervisor and he agreed with me totally and couldn't understand why the two previous supervisors told me otherwise.

He have me a reference number and said that if I don't receive a console with the newest features (HDMI) from the repair center, that I should call with the reference number he gave me and that they will expedite a replacement console with the HDMI port.

Personally, I don't need the HDMI port, but I want to be assured that I get a "newer" refurb, not some old crap that's been laying around. I'm fairly certain these pro/premium consoles with the standard HDMI ports just started hitting the shelves in August 2007.

NOTE: This only applies if you have purchased the extended warranty through Microsoft

Good luck.

...I want to be assured that I get a "newer" refurb, not some old crap that's been laying around...

Old crap, new crap. Still crap, unfortunately.

i agree with the higher number too.

100% of the guys I work with that own 360's (7 of them) are either on their second, third or even fourth 360.

that is astounding.
Yep I am on my 5th.....:eek:

33%...100%...problem is being fixed by MS. Since folks are on their third unit+ and console is only 2 years from launch, those stats say ALL defective 3 rrod's will show up within three year warranty. As long as MS makes it right for the consumer (ok-they HAVE to or lose business segment) that's what's important to me. My current unit has not had the rrod yet (one year old) but my original launch console has had it. I will be chiming in at some point that my second unit has gone back for rrod I'm sure...

33%...100%...problem is being fixed by MS. Since folks are on their third unit+ and console is only 2 years from launch, those stats say ALL defective 3 rrod's will show up within three year warranty...

What's missing in this line of thought is that defective units are being replaced with more defective units. So, your POS is replaced with yet another POS that will be replaced with yet another POS, and then, before you know it, the 3-year warantee is up. You still end up with a worthless POS at some point.

Plus, what is the down time of having a dead unit worth? Certainly more than a "free" 30-day Live card, which most people already have anyway. Thanks for nothing there.

What's missing in this line of thought is that defective units are being replaced with more defective units. So, your POS is replaced with yet another POS that will be replaced with yet another POS, and then, before you know it, the 3-year warantee is up. You still end up with a worthless POS at some point.

Plus, what is the down time of having a dead unit worth? Certainly more than a "free" 30-day Live card, which most people already have anyway. Thanks for nothing there.

Hmmmmmm. Certainly valid points. Well, in our capitalistic society, we speak with our wallets. Trouble is, we are all STILL playing on the 360... So, what's the solution here...

my launch system finally died.

it gave me problems last weekend with freezing and 1 episode of RRoD. Let it rest for the week (was really too busy to bother with it) and fired it back up again today and it froze within 2 minutes and now won't power on without the RRoD.

My coffin is on the way.

I was thinking about buying an Elite/HDMI Premium to blend into my system better anyway, so this'll push me over the edge. Like many others, my "repaired" 360 will get a brief test when it gets back and will then go on ebay to help offset the cost of the new one.

I was proud of the thing for lasting this long. At least I got through Halo 3...but with COD 4/Assassin's Creed/Mass Effect on the horizon, it's time to try a more recently manufactured one. Now I have to wade through all the Falcon crap.

I just spent a good 2-3 hours at xbox-scene.com particularly the hardware forums and I get the impression it's a fatal design flaw. I'm no technician myself but I get the sense a lot of these guys put a lot of time into this, and they're probably just as upset as we are.

The jist of the thing is that the motherboard is only secured in place on it's four corners making it extremely suseptible to warping (any guitar owners know what I'm talking about). When the board warps connections are lost in particular the x-clamp. Even solutions to this have been re-examined days-months later, opened back the 360 to realize necessary maintenance required because things continued to need tightening after playing/heat up of innards. This would explain why systems have to be sent back constantly. There's no permanent fix with fatal design flaws!

Just go to xbox-scene.com and surf around for a while, especially the hardware forums and you'll see how messy this gets. Again, I am no technician only an impressionable reader that has had his own negative experience with this machine!

i agree with the higher number too.

100% of the guys I work with that own 360's (7 of them) are either on their second, third or even fourth 360.

that is astounding.

I feel like an oracle right now.
:p

I would also agree with the 100% figure. I have no idea why MS doesn't completely redesign 360. It makes little sense for them to keep taking hits on this in the media, on message boards, financial statements etc. when a redesign would help to correct this problem. I have no idea who's making this decision, but whoever it is really needs fired because its so beyond common sense its astounding.

I would also agree with the 100% figure. I have no idea why MS doesn't completely redesign 360. It makes little sense for them to keep taking hits on this in the media, on message boards, financial statements etc. when a redesign would help to correct this problem. I have no idea who's making this decision, but whoever it is really needs fired because its so beyond common sense its astounding.

The problem is the minute they admit a design flaw and implement a design change everyone would likely hit them up and the sheer logistics of handling a couple million units at once would be a nightmare. They'd likely have to do a repair program like that in stages...ie by purchase/registration date and that to would be a huge nightmare.

Like I said a couple pages back...if MS doesn't do something to fix the RROD problem for good, millions of people are about to be screwed over big time once the 3year warranty expires....as a launch day buyer that means mine expires in about a year.

For you guys on your third or fourth unit check with your state...maybe you have a lemon law. I don't know if it applies to consumer electronics but it maybe worth looking into. With automobiles it's usually if 3 repair attempts fail to fix the problem then it's "lemoned".

Imo the xbox360 sounds more and more like a LEMON each day.

if anyone's tracking turnaround time...
my 2nd 360 RROdied on 10/5,
coffin arrived on 10/11, shipped out on 10/11 but not picked up until 10/12.


No halo3 for me. :(

Got shipping notification... so I should have my 360 back soon.

Question for those who got theirs back and had purchased XBLA games on their harddrive previously, do your XBLA games work with the refurb'ed system while offline, or do you have to be logged in?

As I posted couple weeks before, my Sept 2006 xbox died with RROD.
Received box from MS, but was able to prolong life with "towel trick".
Finally it died. Sent it to repair depo by Purolator on Oct 20th, got it back on Oct 25th.
Maybe I just got lucky, but this is how long it took.
I'm from Toronto. Has been working w/out problems so far.
BTW, women at Purolator depot said they are getting at least 50 xboxes a week.

I appologize that I did not read this entire thread. I gave a used 360 I got cheap to my brother who reported that it just went 3 red rings. The complicated part is that the 360 was opened by the guy I bought it from, thus voiding the warranty.

So what are the options? Can it still be sent to Microsoft for an out of warranty repair (at my cost), or will they not touch units that have been opened? Anyone know?

Are there any reputable 3rd party outfits around that have figured out how to repair a 360? Any web sites you can recommend?

I'll do some searching, but I figure the "experts" should be hanging around this thread...

Thanks in advance.

So what are the options?...
Fix it yourself or pay someone that knows how. MS won't touch it.

I just got the xBox 360 Elite and the HD DVD add-on. Is the RROD prevalent to these boxes also? Or any major probs at all? Thanx for the input.

cheezz

MS won't touch it.

Are you sure? Source please. Where can I research the possibilities? There must be many people in similar situations for various reasons...

Are there any 3rd party reputable 360 repair services?

So how many of you have gotten back the same console you sent in? From most everything I've read lately (and friends experiences), they seem to be sending back different consoles. I just got mine back today and it's my original unit.

Seems strange that they repaired it so fast. I shipped mine back on 10/16. The box was 3 day air, so it got to MS on 10/19. UPS showed they the return package logged into their system on 10/21. Seems weird that they turned it on a weekend and somehow "repaired" a broken console.

I've yet to turn it on, so who knows if it'll work, but I thought it was strange that I got back the same unit.

I just got the xBox 360 Elite and the HD DVD add-on. Is the RROD prevalent to these boxes also? Or any major probs at all?

The Elite is suspect to the exact same issues as the Premium. Expect death. The HD add-on typically doesn't have many issues, but there is a chance of laser failure somewhere down the road.

Are you sure? Source please. Where can I research the possibilities? There must be many people in similar situations for various reasons...

Are there any 3rd party reputable 360 repair services?

I'm 100% certain. No need to post a source, as it's common knowledge, much like 2+2=4.

The possibilities are; fix it yourself, pay someone to fix it, as I said earlier, or sell the unit online/locally as-is.

If it's already been opened, as you stated, it's likely for one of the following; someone completely ruined the unit with the heatgun method, someone tried the X-Clamp method and failed miserably, someone dinked around with the DVD drive, someone did a mod of some sort - either firmware or hardware based, or someone did a case shell mod and kept the modded casing. Any or all of these scenarios are NOT good news for your unit, save but the last one, which is least likely.

What is the error code on your unit? See first post for instructions.

Are you sure? Source please. Where can I research the possibilities? There must be many people in similar situations for various reasons...

Are there any 3rd party reputable 360 repair services?
I would call them up and not even metion that it has been opened. Let them figure it out. Worst they would do is charge you the $125(or whatever it is now) to fix it.

Spyder - I know the history of this 360 since I bought it from a friend. They couldn't understand why it would no longer connect to Xbox Live and they thought they would look inside to see if they could find anything obvious. They didn't really understand that that would void the warranty - it was a mistake. Nothing you mentioned was done to this Xbox 360, it is stock. I think the problem was they tried to go on-line by connecting through a laptop and got banned and never knew what happened (my theory). Also, have to disagree with you about a company policy being common knowledge - policies differ, so that's why I asked.

RTRic - How can I find out the fee for a Microsoft repair? Are you saying to just call the "4MYXBOX" number and ask them? (Is that the right number?)

Has anyone here tried these guys? Seems legit.

http://xbox360-pros.com/xbox-360-repair-service.aspx

The Elite is suspect to the exact same issues as the Premium. Expect death. The HD add-on typically doesn't have many issues, but there is a chance of laser failure somewhere down the road.

Thanx, dude.

Spyder - I know the history of this 360 since I bought it from a friend. They couldn't understand why it would no longer connect to Xbox Live and they thought they would look inside to see if they could find anything obvious. They didn't really understand that that would void the warranty - it was a mistake. Nothing you mentioned was done to this Xbox 360, it is stock. I think the problem was they tried to go on-line by connecting through a laptop and got banned and never knew what happened (my theory). Also, have to disagree with you about a company policy being common knowledge - policies differ, so that's why I asked.

RTRic - How can I find out the fee for a Microsoft repair? Are you saying to just call the "4MYXBOX" number and ask them? (Is that the right number?)

Has anyone here tried these guys? Seems legit.

http://xbox360-pros.com/xbox-360-repair-service.aspx

Running it through a laptop will not get the console banned. If it was banned then they modded it or had it modded. That would explain why the seal was broken. If it is banned then MS will not touch it. There is no way to unban it. You just need to get a new console.

Spyder...They didn't really understand that that would void the warranty - it was a mistake...Also, have to disagree with you about a company policy being common knowledge - policies differ, so that's why I asked.

Mistake, intentional, banned, not banned, or even if the seal broken by a giant 3-toed tree sloth on crack...it's irrelevant. It's quite rare that I find, either online or in person, anyone that owns a 360 unit that does not know that if the seal is broken, MS will absolutely, positively, in no way, shape, or form, accept the console for repair. That's what the seal is for. Maybe 1 in 100 or even 1 in 1000 do not already know this by now. That's what I personally consider common knowledge. When the units first came out, maybe not so much, but after all this time... It's even been mentioned in this thread more at least than once, which is knowledge that is easily gained with very little effort.

GameStop finally decided their Product Replacement Plan does not add to their bottom line.

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/10/30/gamestop-halts-360-replacement-plan-sales/

interesting.

I just bought an Elite at BB 2 days ago and the cashier freely offered me the 2 year replacement plan and I was all too happy to accept. I wonder if other stores will be following suit.

Here is a link to instructiopn on how to fix it yourself. If your console is banned, start reading. http://rbjtech.bulldoghome.com/pages/rbjtech_bulldoghome_com/

Here is a link to instructiopn on how to fix it yourself. If your console is banned, start reading. http://rbjtech.bulldoghome.com/pages/rbjtech_bulldoghome_com/

That method is fine, but lawdawg's method is far less intrusive, costs less, is more successful, and requires much, much, less work. Links to both of these repairs have already been posted on this thread.

Well, got my system back. It was about three weeks total since calling MS till I got the replacement. It is an older box, actually a month older than the refurb I sent back. So I have no doubt this one wll fail at some point, but so long as it lives through Mass Effect, I will be content. No HDMI, but I'm running VGA anyway.

Based on the post several entries back....Shouldn't jason10mm have been entitled to the newer Pro with HDMI? I wonder since they did not repair his "old" console. Further curiosity since I just sent out my "old" Pro unit yesterday - Second one to RROD. So I want to know if the wording in the agreement can be challenged/holds up if they don't fix "mine" and send one without HDMI.

I am aware it may take a call or supervisor or two to get one though.

Based on the post several entries back....Shouldn't jason10mm have been entitled to the newer Pro with HDMI? I wonder since they did not repair his "old" console. Further curiosity since I just sent out my "old" Pro unit yesterday - Second one to RROD. So I want to know if the wording in the agreement can be challenged/holds up if they don't fix "mine" and send one without HDMI.

I am aware it may take a call or supervisor or two to get one though.

The only argument for that is if he has the MS extended service contract for his console. There's a line in there that reads:

A replacement with the latest features, in the unlikely event your Xbox console or controller can't be fixed.

Which sounds like any console that is replaced under the service contract should be a newer model with the latest features.

I have the contract and in my case they "fixed" my original console. I guess they did that to keep from having to send me a console that didn't come off the "pile" of old, refurbished consoles they pull from.

I believe that's the only way you could really expect to get a console with different features than the one you sent in.

Based on the post several entries back....Shouldn't jason10mm have been entitled to the newer Pro with HDMI? I wonder since they did not repair his "old" console. Further curiosity since I just sent out my "old" Pro unit yesterday - Second one to RROD. So I want to know if the wording in the agreement can be challenged/holds up if they don't fix "mine" and send one without HDMI.

I am aware it may take a call or supervisor or two to get one though.

That was an interesting post as I also have the MS extended warranty.
My lauch day died in October with 3rrod and they sent me an older refurb as replacement. Maybe I should also call and see if I can get it replaced with a newer(hdmi) unit. I found my warranty paper work and it has the same line about replacement with the "latest" model. Hmmm.

That was an interesting post as I also have the MS extended warranty.
My lauch day died in October with 3rrod and they sent me an older refurb as replacement. Maybe I should also call and see if I can get it replaced with a newer(hdmi) unit. I found my warranty paper work and it has the same line about replacement with the "latest" model. Hmmm.

It can't hurt to try since your replacement was recent. There was a guy that posted about this in a separate thread last week and he finally got a supervisor with MS that agreed with him and said he'd be getting an HDMI model as a replacement. Don't know how that went, but it sounded good.

Are there any reputable 3rd party outfits around that have figured out how to repair a 360? Any web sites you can recommend?

Thanks in advance.

My neighbor sent one to a place that fixes them. They fixed it and gave him a 90 day warranty. This was after his son took it apart and screwed around with it. He is gone for a few days so I can't tell you where he sent it. If you still need the info after the 7th, I should be able to get it for you. He asked me to fix it but him being a neighbor and knowing what would happen if it went belly up again, I wasn't going to get involved with the repair.

I appologize that I did not read this entire thread. I gave a used 360 I got cheap to my brother who reported that it just went 3 red rings. The complicated part is that the 360 was opened by the guy I bought it from, thus voiding the warranty..

As long as it was working for your brother before, you should be able to get it running again. Try the x-clamp fix and use Artic Silver #5 to replace the paste Microsoft used.

Lawdawg's method is far less intrusive, costs less, is more successful, and requires much, much, less work. If it's already been opened, as you stated, it's likely for one of the following; someone completely ruined the unit with the heatgun method....

I agree about using Lawdog's method. I have used that with very good results. Since spyder mentioned the heatgun method I will say this. I had one unit that no matter what, would not stay fixed for more than a couple of days. I finally took a heatgun that generated 1000 degrees and baked it for about 4 minutes. I concentrated on the graphic chip and the memory chips but still heated up the whole board. As in the online video, I did protect certain parts with foil. It has now worked for over 3 weeks. I don't recommend using the heat gun unless you are out of options.

It can't hurt to try since your replacement was recent. There was a guy that posted about this in a separate thread last week and he finally got a supervisor with MS that agreed with him and said he'd be getting an HDMI model as a replacement. Don't know how that went, but it sounded good.

I started that thread, I'm still waiting for my console to be returned from MS. They received it in Texas on October 30th and sent out a replacement on Nov.1st, not sure if they repaired my original console or sent me a refurb w/without the HDMI port. It's scheduled to be delivered to me on Nov. 3rd, I'll have more info at that time and let you guys know how it turns out.

...I agree about using Lawdog's method. I have used that with very good results. Since spyder mentioned the heatgun method I will say this. I had one unit that no matter what, would not stay fixed for more than a couple of days. I finally took a heatgun that generated 1000 degrees and baked it for about 4 minutes. I concentrated on the graphic chip and the memory chips but still heated up the whole board. As in the online video, I did protect certain parts with foil. It has now worked for over 3 weeks. I don't recommend using the heat gun unless you are out of options.

I'm going to be gunning a couple up today or tomorrow as a last resort as well. I'm quite certain that they've already been incorrectly gunned or ruined by some other failed "repair" of some sort. I'll post my results.

I just got one back from microsoft and It was a pro with no hdmi. I hope was hoping for HDMI but oh well.

My brother in law got the three rings again today. Tried the first post's trick but didn't seem to change when pressing eject. The console was off for a few hours when he turned it back on to get it so I don't think it's heat related. Any ideas how to narrow things down?

My brother in law got the three rings again today. Tried the first post's trick but didn't seem to change when pressing eject. The console was off for a few hours when he turned it back on to get it so I don't think it's heat related. Any ideas how to narrow things down?

Read the first post again and report back your error code.

I'm thinking of either buying a 360 elite along with an intercooler fan right now, or waiting until after christmas to buy one, in the hopes that the red ring will finally be resolved by then. What do you guys think is the best option and if I buy a fan, what is the best fan?

...waiting until after christmas to buy one, in the hopes that the red ring will finally be resolved by then...

You, my friend, are the epitome of an optimist. ;)

Just an update to those who are worried about turn around time...I sent mine in 10/14 and they say they just got it 10/25. I am guessing it will be another month before I get mine back. I am hoping they are way wrong and they are already sending mine back. More than likely they will lose it for another month on the way back. LOL

Doesn't really matter all that much I already bought the HDMI premium that replaces it. I was thinking I would give it to my brother but I may just give him one of the new 360 arcade with HDMI and just give him my old hard drive. I may just sell it.

UPDATE: Ok...MS has managed to make me eat my words. LOL It did not take another month. I got my console back on 10/31. Yes I was stunned. It was a new to me refurb and I got two one month XBL cards. I haven't had the chance to hook it up yet to see if it works yet. I may have time to hook it up tonight when I get home from work. I want to stop by blockbuster and pick up some games I already have to I can compare side by side with my other 360 with HDMI.

I started that thread, I'm still waiting for my console to be returned from MS. They received it in Texas on October 30th and sent out a replacement on Nov.1st, not sure if they repaired my original console or sent me a refurb w/without the HDMI port. It's scheduled to be delivered to me on Nov. 3rd, I'll have more info at that time and let you guys know how it turns out.

Did you receive your replacement yet? Just wondering if you got the HDMI version. Mine launch 360 just died on me yesterday so my coffin is on the way. I tried telling the lady in India that my service contract stated the I should receive a replacement with the newest features if mine could not be repaired. She said she would put it in the notes but I could tell she had no idea what I was talking about and was just brushing me off. Does anybody have any other numbers to get in touch with a supervisor or do I just call India again?

Did you receive your replacement yet? Just wondering if you got the HDMI version. Mine launch 360 just died on me yesterday so my coffin is on the way. I tried telling the lady in India that my service contract stated the I should receive a replacement with the newest features if mine could not be repaired. She said she would put it in the notes but I could tell she had no idea what I was talking about and was just brushing me off. Does anybody have any other numbers to get in touch with a supervisor or do I just call India again? Try calling durning normal US business hours like 9 to 5 or so. Seems you have a higher chance of getting someone without an "accent".

Just to note: I finally received my coffin replacement today from 10/12. Took a month from the initial phone call to MS. I received a whopping 1 mo free on live and a non-hdmi box with mfg date of 10/14/07. So I assume I at least received a new production box..??

It works, so all is good for now. This was the 2nd RROD in my house. First my son's then mine.

My friend was playing Halo the other day and got the 3 rings. The error code turned out to be 1023, which apparently means that the dvd drive is disconnected. Is there any way to fix this without voiding the warranty, or does he have to send it in?

My friend was playing Halo the other day and got the 3 rings. The error code turned out to be 1023, which apparently means that the dvd drive is disconnected. Is there any way to fix this without voiding the warranty, or does he have to send it in?

Must send it in. Seems odd that a DVD drive would just randomly disconnect itself though.

UPDATE to previous post: My two heat-gunned (last resort) units are toast. Even the towel trick (last resort #2) didn't work. Someone had previously gunned both units incorrectly rather than doing the X-Clamp mod, thus ruining them completely. Don't attempt fixes if you don't know what you're doing.

Here's some important info for you guys receiving replacement consoles through the MS extended warranty:


I just sent in my second console in for repairs (RRoD), it's one of the original pro/premium models w/out HDMI.

Looking through my service contract, it states:

In the rare event your Microsoft Entertainment Device can't be fixed, we'll comfort you with a replacement model.

If all else fails and our service professionals actually conclude your Microsoft Entertainment Product is beyond repair, we'll provide you with a replacement including the latest features. So your Microsoft Service Contract can pay for itself several times over with this benefit alone.

The last time I checked the HDMI port is considered the latest feature and now comes standard with the pro/premium consoles.

Point is, if you send in an older console w/o HDMI and Microsoft can't fix it and sends you back a machine other than the one you sent in, you're entitled to a newer console w/HDMI, don't settle for anything less!

I pointed this fact out to two supervisers and both gave me a hard time and refused to honor the agreement, and said I'll only get back a non/HDMI console like the one I sent in. This morning I spoke with a third supervisor and he agreed with me totally and couldn't understand why the two previous supervisors told me otherwise.

He have me a reference number and said that if I don't receive a console with the newest features (HDMI) from the repair center, that I should call with the reference number he gave me and that they will expedite a replacement console with the HDMI port.

Personally, I don't need the HDMI port, but I want to be assured that I get a "newer" refurb, not some old crap that's been laying around. I'm fairly certain these pro/premium consoles with the standard HDMI ports just started hitting the shelves in August 2007.

NOTE: This only applies if you have purchased the extended warranty through Microsoft

Good luck.


I received the repaired console today, it was the same console that I sent in so I'm not eligible for a refurb with the "newest features" at this point.

However, the repaired console was DOA, would not even turn on. The power button feels like it's jammed, no play when I press it to power it up. I took off the faceplate, didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. Also tried in multiple outlets, the power brick seems ok (orange light).

This is now my third return, I have the extended warranty. I spoke with a supervisor, and demanded that I either get a refund (preferably) or a brand new console, in the box. After much discussion, he agreed to send me a brand new console, but, I have to send the DOA console back to the service center first to verify that the console doesn't work.

Now I just have to wait and see and hope they follow through.

For the life of me, I don't umderstand how MS (Xbox division) is still in business, these chronic hardware issues with this console are just rediculous! How after two years they don't have a fix for these issues but yet people are still buying these systems is beyond me. This is by far the most frustrating purchase I have ever made.

My May 2006 built unit which I got last Christmas died tonight. It was not used all that much. It freezed up once a week ago (last time I played) and then froze about 5 times tonight before giving me the red rings. Error code was 0102. I called MS and got a pleasant CSR who processed me for an RMA. I need my xbox back for Rock Band!!!!

Holy crap Bbanderic!! That really sucks. Atleast you will get a new unit now. But thats what 3-4 months youve been out of a console when its all said and done!!! What about xbox live, are they gonna refund you those months?!

my refurb'ed unit has froze 3 times on me already. no RROD yet.
I believe CA is a lot warmer than WA and therein lies the problem... all their stress testing and heattesting must've been in Seatle. :)

My current 'lesson learned'... no 360 until 7pm, when Southern California has cooled down.

/\ Now I've heard everything...

my refurb'ed unit has froze 3 times on me already. no RROD yet.
I believe CA is a lot warmer than WA and therein lies the problem... all their stress testing and heattesting must've been in Seatle. :)

My current 'lesson learned'... no 360 until 7pm, when Southern California has cooled down.

Actually they were done in Mountain View, CA, by the former WebTV team.

I bought my Elite Sep 19 (less than two months ago). I haven't used my xbox 360 in the past few weeks so I was pretty surprised yesterday when I tried to turn it on and got the three red rings for the first time. My system lot number is 0730. I can't get upset, since I knew the risks and what I was getting into. I'm one of the many now.

Actually they were done in Mountain View, CA, by the former WebTV team.

NoCal still cooler (temperature-wise) than SoCal. :D


Called for my XBLA games to work. they said it'll take 30 to 60 days for the system to 'reregister' them to my new serial number.

looks like they're no longer giving out points for you to re-purchase.

Never been in this thread yet. I just wanted to post as a 360 owner who has not had ANY problems just to remind people that most people who come to these forums are people with problems. Bought mine used on ebay Feb' 07. Not that the 360 is perfect, but so far so good for me. *knocks on wood. best of luck to all gamers.

...Bought mine used on ebay Feb' 07...

Probably already had the X-Clamp mod done.

Never been in this thread yet. I just wanted to post as a 360 owner who has not had ANY problems just to remind people that most people who come to these forums are people with problems. Bought mine used on ebay Feb' 07. Not that the 360 is perfect, but so far so good for me. *knocks on wood. best of luck to all gamers.

Probably already had the X-Clamp mod done.
Yep I agree and if not then...tick tock goes the clock.

Sorry buddy, but I don't agree that most people who come to these forums are only those who have experienced problems. Out of me and my four friends who have 360's, only one of them is still on his original unit (and he barely even uses it). While there are likely more people who aren't having problems than those who are, the number of malfunctioning consoles is much higher than one might anticipate. That's not to say that the 360 isn't great - I love mine and am glad that I bought the BBY replacement plan when I bought my second one. That way if (when) mine does I can simply swap it for a new one.

Recieving the refurb 360 in the mail today. I had shipped it on 25 Oct so thats a 21 day turn around from when i shipped it. Not bad considering im in Hawaii. Now I need to figure out how im gonna network the 2 :P

Sorry buddy, but I don't agree that most people who come to these forums are only those who have experienced problems. Out of me and my four friends who have 360's, only one of them is still on his original unit (and he barely even uses it). While there are likely more people who aren't having problems than those who are, the number of malfunctioning consoles is much higher than one might anticipate. That's not to say that the 360 isn't great - I love mine and am glad that I bought the BBY replacement plan when I bought my second one. That way if (when) mine does I can simply swap it for a new one.

agree with this 100%. like i said earlier in this thread, EVERY guy i work with who has a 360 is either on their second, third or even in one case their FOURTH 360.

that logic about "only complainers come to forums" is usually right with these issues, but not with this one!!!

I can say with near certainty that there are less than 5% of Xbox 360 owners that still have an original console in working condition, at least those that play more than a few hours a month. To say that this and other forums are filled with nothing but complainers is ludicrous, particularly when one buys a used box that could have been either; modified, refurbished, or repaired. This forum is but a tiny sample of the plethora of persons with dead units. :mad:

The fact of the matter is that EVERY 360 is doomed. MS keeps the RoD numbers magically at 30% by constantly churning out consoles, counting the millions of unsold numbers on everyone's shelves against the defective ones. Hell, there are probably 10 million puke-green Halo editions alone sitting in the warehouse where they keep the Ark of the Covenants at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark. :confused:

Paul Thurrot is a well respected tech journalist that has done extensive research with the Xbox 360 and has stated in a recent podcast that if you haven't seen the 3 red rings yet then its only a matter of time, so be prepared.

"I love the 360, and think Microsoft's done something special there. On the other hand, it's loud and unreliable. I've had three game discs scratched so bad as to be unplayable. I've had two consoles turn up dead with the "red ring of death," and I know of several friends who have had the same issues. I get together monthly with a group of guys up the street to play Halo 2 and, more recently, some 360 games, and they've almost all had problems with their consoles. We played last night, actually, and while Halo 2 played flawlessly, our attempts to play Call of Duty 3 and Gears of War, both 360 titles, were completely unsuccessful. Everyone was blaming Microsoft, and while that's kind of a simple and easy assessment, you know, it probably is their fault. This is a sad state of affairs."

http://www.winsupersite.com/xbox/

I can say with near certainty that there are less than 5% of Xbox 360 owners that still have an original console in working condition, at least those that play more than a few hours a month. To say that this and other forums are filled with nothing but complainers is ludicrous, particularly when one buys a used box that could have been either; modified, refurbished, or repaired. This forum is but a tiny sample of the plethora of persons with dead units. :mad:




Read my post again, I never said ALL forums are filled with NOTHING BUT complainers. I just wanted to let people without 360's know there are people with 360's that haven't had problems YET, like myself, so as not to scare them away from the 360 since it is such a great console. And I never said my 360 was NEVER going to fail, it still might. My 360 was not modded, or repaired, I know the guy and he had it for only a few months. I know all about crappy consoles, my PS2 had the dreaded DRE that frustrated me to no end. Sorry to cause a ruckus. :o

Not a problem, oo7evan. The point beng, is that anyone that buys ANY 360 needs to know the astronomical and painfully real risks involved with ownership. Sure, a small percentage of people in life are blessed and win the lottery, the same small percentage might get a decent 360. Since yours is apparently less than 1 year old, it's difficult to say that you're one of the lucky ones.

It's doubtful that many are avoiding the 360 due to the problems. Hell, Memorex still somehow sells blank media! :eek:

Hey...My launch day 360 died last night...

Playing Halo...game froze
Restarted...game froze again
Restarted...loud screatch and xbox logo freezed on bootup
Restarted and 3 flashing red rings...

Now what?

Hey...My launch day 360 died last night...

Playing Halo...game froze
Restarted...game froze again
Restarted...loud screatch and xbox logo freezed on bootup
Restarted and 3 flashing red rings...

Now what?

Call for your coffin. *Playing Taps*

Hey...My launch day 360 died last night...

Playing Halo...game froze
Restarted...game froze again
Restarted...loud screatch and xbox logo freezed on bootup
Restarted and 3 flashing red rings...

Now what?

welcome to the RROD brotherhood.

...Now what?

What is your error code?

Read my post again, I never said ALL forums are filled with NOTHING BUT complainers. I just wanted to let people without 360's know there are people with 360's that haven't had problems YET, like myself, so as not to scare them away from the 360 since it is such a great console. And I never said my 360 was NEVER going to fail, it still might. My 360 was not modded, or repaired, I know the guy and he had it for only a few months. I know all about crappy consoles, my PS2 had the dreaded DRE that frustrated me to no end. Sorry to cause a ruckus. :o

Dream on.

I just bought a 360 Elite with the Forza2/Marvel Ultimate Alliance bundle. It has a build date of 06-13-2007. Do you guys think I will be OK? I bought from Gamestop, so I will have to use the Microsoft Warranty. My local BestBY was sold out.

And another bites the dust. Get the red lights today after freezing up on Saturday. Mine lasted, get this - 360 days. Always wondered what the 360 meant.... So now I'll have no game system during my least busy month of the year. Terrific.

I just bought a 360 Elite with the Forza2/Marvel Ultimate Alliance bundle. It has a build date of 06-13-2007. Do you guys think I will be OK? I bought from Gamestop, so I will have to use the Microsoft Warranty. My local BestBY was sold out.

What do you mean by OK? Its a console that breaks frequently. If it does, you have to send it in. Seems like you knew what you were getting into, because you posted in this forum.

I just bought a 360 Elite with the Forza2/Marvel Ultimate Alliance bundle. It has a build date of 06-13-2007. Do you guys think I will be OK? I bought from Gamestop, so I will have to use the Microsoft Warranty. My local BestBY was sold out.

Does this have HDMI? If not, I would return it ASAP. All the HDMI models have been corrected. If he asks why you want to exchange it, just say that it doesn't have the newest advertised feature, HDMI.

What do you mean by OK? Its a console that breaks frequently. If it does, you have to send it in. Seems like you knew what you were getting into, because you posted in this forum.

Damn, you must have had really bad experiences. Yeah I knew exactly what I was getting into, but I haven't had time research the build dates, heat sink, and sku stuff.

mishmosh it does have HDMI. THANKS

Damn, you must have had really bad experiences. Yeah I knew exactly what I was getting into, but I haven't had time research the build dates, heat sink, and sku stuff.

I would certainly rather have newer components, but ultimately no one will know if these newer components make any difference in build quality for several months.

"all the HDMI models have been corrected".

Don't know what that's supposed to mean. There still isn't a proven solution or "correction" out there. There are new heat sinks and new chips but the same old x-clamp. None of the new sinks and chips have been proven over time to do anything because we don't have time yet...but the main problem is still there from everything I've read.

On top of that, just because a unit has HDMI doesn't mean it has the new chip set. There are other hoops you have to jump through to give yourself a false sense of security.

All the HDMI models have been corrected...

:confused: Corrected??? Of what? Not having HDMI? :rolleyes: These break all the time, even more frequently than older models, in many cases. More MS propaganda filling the airwaves. :mad:


I haven't had time research the build dates, heat sink, and sku stuff.

If it's been built, it's going to break fairly soon. Period. The rest is irrelevant. :(


Always wondered what the 360 meant...

Didn't they name it 360 because they're ALL guaranteed to make a perfect circle straight back to the factory? ;)

Does anybody know if MS warranties the replacement 360? I had RROD a couple of months ago and received a refurbished unit.

This 360 now refuses to read the game disks. It is like the drive isn't even spinning the disk. It will open/close, but never successfully read the disk (I've tried multiple games).

I really don't want to have to purchase a new 360 because they sent me a piece of crap refurbished unit back.

Does anybody know if MS warranties the replacement 360? I had RROD a couple of months ago and received a refurbished unit.

This 360 now refuses to read the game disks. It is like the drive isn't even spinning the disk. It will open/close, but never successfully read the disk (I've tried multiple games).

I really don't want to have to purchase a new 360 because they sent me a piece of crap refurbished unit back.


I don't know about that one, try calling customer service and asking them if it comes with some type of warranty. I hope it does, cause I am going to be sending out my unit as soon as I receive their box in the mail. I would hate to have it come back and break down soon thereafter.

I was starting to think I was untouchable, I am in a gaming group and I would say more than 50% of us have had the RROD. Some of my buddies are on multiple units already. In one month here at my work three of us have lost our xbox 360's. I had mine for just under two years without problems. I was pretty faithful with dusting the thing off, I don't know if that helped but it certainly didn't hurt it. Hopefully I have better luck with the fixed unit. I have been without the console for six days and I am itching to buy the elite. But a friend at work got his back with three weeks so I am trying my best to hold out.

Does this have HDMI? If not, I would return it ASAP. All the HDMI models have been corrected. If he asks why you want to exchange it, just say that it doesn't have the newest advertised feature, HDMI.


If it is an elite it has to have HDMI....

Does anybody know if MS warranties the replacement 360? I had RROD a couple of months ago and received a refurbished unit.

This 360 now refuses to read the game disks. It is like the drive isn't even spinning the disk. It will open/close, but never successfully read the disk (I've tried multiple games).

I really don't want to have to purchase a new 360 because they sent me a piece of crap refurbished unit back.

If you go to their service site it should list your box. It will also let you know if it is under warranty and for how much longer.

Well, after about 18 months of careful use, the 3RROD showed up a couple weeks ago. Did a quick net search on 360 error codes. Learned about troubleshooting, decoding and the x-clamp fix. Troubleshooting methods didn't make a difference and he unit coded out as 0102. Unit build date is 3/2006, purchased in 4/06. No extended warranty, so I had about decided to try the x-clamp fix instead of forking out $ to MS. Even at Lowes earlier tonight but forgot to take my lawdawg0931 "Fix for the 3RLOD" printout for parts. But first I wanted to do some more searching. After reading this complete thread, I was pleased to learn as of 7/07, MS now offers 3RROD fix for free.

Although I believe the fundamental problem is a MB flex/x-clamp issue, I'll call MS for a coffin this 1st time because I want the 360 RROD death to be documented. In the meantime, the old original XBox is still going strong after many years of not-so-careful use.

I am on my fourth unit. Each time they seem to return one to me quicker. the last was in about 2 weeks. They do not send your unit back to you. You get a repaired one.

I am on my fourth unit. Each time they seem to return one to me quicker. the last was in about 2 weeks. They do not send your unit back to you. You get a repaired one.

i got a new one...

You get a repaired one.

Exactly. Except you forgot to put the quotation marks around "repaired". ;)

i got a new one...

Same mistake as the poster above, but with the word, "new".

I just got the RRoD, however I never played games in the system. It was strictly a media extender. The real pain in the ass is that I have developed my home entertainment system based on the extenders for the bedrooms. I'm not happy at all.

This sucks. Just went to turn on the box today, which I've had since November of the release year. 3 rings to great me. 0020 code. Nothing seems to be working, so I'm assuming I need to find a box on Monday and send it off for warranty covered repair?

...0020 code...

One of the worst codes of all. You'll get someone else's old unit "repaired" and remarked as "new."

What happens to the arcade games we've downloaded and purchased? Are the stored on the HD?

If I get back someone elses repaired unit what will I be out of, if anything?

My build date was Oct.2005 (launch day unit) and code was 0102...

I hope MS doesn't dink around during the holiday time...

What happens to the arcade games we've downloaded and purchased? Are the stored on the HD?

If I get back someone elses repaired unit what will I be out of, if anything?

My build date was Oct.2005 (launch day unit) and code was 0102...

You kept your hard drive right? Then nothing has happened to them.

I hope MS doesn't dink around during the holiday time...

Me too. Just called MS Friday to order a coffin.

I am on my fourth unit. Each time they seem to return one to me quicker. the last was in about 2 weeks. They do not send your unit back to you. You get a repaired one.

The one I had sent in earlier had to be replaced again because the dvd drive didn't work properly. It only took 15 days to get me another one. They must be speeding thru them now. The good thing was they gave me a console with a BenQ drive in it and it is almost completely quiet.

Well mine finally cooked, artifacts off all shapes and colors lol. It was a launch system and the last of my 10 friends to have a unrepaired unit. 10 friends and 10 broken 360's haha if thats not the most crazy thing in consumer electronics, I dunno what is.
The coffin is on the way lol

Hey, send my RRoD decoder ring cuz I've just been owned by MS. Don't know what code I'm getting ... guess I'm doing it wrong cuz all 4 keep flashing. Quick question: Are there any reliability issues with the new systems or are those having the same issues?

Well mine lasted about a year with little use before going tits up. I got code 0102. :(

Hey, send my RRoD decoder ring cuz I've just been owned by MS. Don't know what code I'm getting ... guess I'm doing it wrong cuz all 4 keep flashing. Quick question: Are there any reliability issues with the new systems or are those having the same issues?

Doesn't that mean your AV cable is loose?

Great... my backup if the 360 goes RRoD again (a Wii), can also potentially go belly up...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12322416#post12322416

seems like graphic chips have gotten too complex for their own good. :)

I was a 360 mass extinction skeptic until...

Received the coffin today. Boxed the 360 and went over to the UPS depot. Walked in and immediately recognized two other 360 RMA boxes behind the counter. So the clerk scans my RMA box and I ask "Just curious, how many of these boxes do you usually see a day?" The clerk responded "bout a half dozen...and that's just one shift". This is in a small town of about 27,000 people. I mean, this town doesn't have a MailboxesPlus or such, but UPS does has a distribution depot here. So all local dropoffs would be there. Hope the refurb holds up for a while.

I just received the replacement yesterday for my launch 360 that finally gave me the RROD after 2 years of service. Everything seemed to be going well until I started playing COD4 for the first time (just bought it a couple if days ago). While playing through the initial training mode the screen froze on me but I could still hear the game itself still running normally in the background. I powered it down and started playing again and this time I got to the first level of the game and all of a sudden the graphics started getting all pixelated and remained like this even when I went back to the dashboard. Powered it down again and played the PGR4 demo for about 15 minutes without this happening again. I am going to test some other games tonight but it looks like a got a dud as a replacement. I told myself that if this happened I would either trade it in to Gamestop for an Arcade and try to get a Falcon (keep the hard drive and pay the $100.00 diff) or give up and get a PS3.:(

I had a launch unit that went belly up after a year. The second I put my brand new Gears of War in, I got the RRoD. I took the unit back to BB because I had bought their extended warranty, and they actually didn't want to accept it because they claimed Microsoft told them that the RRoD was a hard drive issue, and that all I have to do to fix my Xbox is buy a new hard drive. Can you believe this crap?