Now that's some screwed up sh$t.. I would take it to a different Best Buy in your area. Sounds to me like they didn't want to give up the xboxes for sale.

I tried looking through this thread but couldn't find the answer. What exactly is causing all of these to break? Is it a faulty CPU? a dodgy drive? Bad power supply? Does anyone know the exact cause?

I tried looking through this thread but couldn't find the answer. What exactly is causing all of these to break? Is it a faulty CPU? a dodgy drive? Bad power supply? Does anyone know the exact cause?

:confused: Huh? I've only posted the problem on nearly every single page. Try again. :o

So that we don't have to go wading thru 42 pages of this, why don't you tell us again?

Is it the faulty soldering with led free solder?

Is it the faulty cooling?

Is it the processor?

So a friend of mine sent his launch unit away bout 2 weeks ago and lone and behold, he got a hdmi version back in its place! pretty sweet!
So then I got thinking of all my friends that I know that have a 360 bought before july this year how many are still going? out of 22 people that have them, 2 peoples units are still going without having to be fixed.
Like really, how sad is that? most of them didn't know they could get it fixed for free and bought new ones because they aren't in the loop and bough new units.
Make you wonder about the people who worked on the 360 and had this HUGE design flaw, I wonder if they got fired ? LOL

Make you wonder about the people who worked on the 360 and had this HUGE design flaw, I wonder if they got fired ? LOL

Wrong. They likely got a HUGE BONUS. MS took everyone's $140 and invested it over the past 2 years, making astronomical sums of money, then sent everyone their money back. An interest-free loan from America, if you will. I think the whole thing was planned all along.

:confused: Huh? I've only posted the problem on nearly every single page. Try again. :o

Well that was helpful :confused: And you lie, you didn't mention it on this page or the last so you did not post on "every single page".

Well that was helpful :confused: And you lie, you didn't mention it on this page or the last so you did not post on "every single page".

More of an "exageration" than a lie...just like someone saying that they "tried" looking for an answer when it's right before them. Every other page then. :rolleyes:

well my repair unit lasted about a year and I got the RROD this weekend. called MS and the box will be here 3-5 days but they are giving me a return estimate of around new years, which sucks but oh well. My last system had a mft date of 05\06\06..wonder when this one will be built

Well we are on our 2nd 360 and this one died yesterday. Bought it in May of this year. After the first failure I sucked it up and just bought a new one. I will not go that route this time. We are going to get a refurbished unit, started the process yesterday. When this one goes up I am done with the 360. The support is horrible (Good luck understanding them....) and rude to boot. We will be going to the PlayStation 3 after this. I'm done dealing with Microsoft.....

Well we are on our 2nd 360 and this one died yesterday. Bought it in May of this year. After the first failure I sucked it up and just bought a new one. I will not go that route this time. We are going to get a refurbished unit, started the process yesterday. When this one goes up I am done with the 360. The support is horrible (Good luck understanding them....) and rude to boot. We will be going to the PlayStation 3 after this. I'm done dealing with Microsoft.....

+1

I want the PS3 only for Blu Ray. Seeing as I rarely play my 360, I may sell it and my 4 games and get the Toshiba HD player and be done. I am enjoying it more for HD movies right now than gaming

we got a refurb from gamestop and 6 months later is began the rrod. after checking with gamestop and simply being handed a paper with microsofts number on it, i began searching the net and found just what a big problem this has become. we tried several home remedys and the one where you wrap it in a towel for awhile actually worked for about a month, now it seems to be done completely. i removed the front faceplate and found that the original chrome microsoft tamper label is still intact. i dont know how gamestop could have refurbished it without breaking that seal but the back of the unit had (i removed it) a label that said "refurbished by gamestop"
will microsoft still "repair" for free a console that was bought as a refurb?
have there been any reports of newer systems having this issue?
sorry i havent read this thread...but i'm going to.

we got a refurb from gamestop and 6 months later is began the rrod...will microsoft still "repair" for free a console that was bought as a refurb?
GS sends all units back to MS for repair. They don't do it themselves, hence the MS sticker.

There shouldn't be any issues for your repair.

I purchased my unit at gamestop (don't know if it was a refurb) but the rep on the phone said that he would register my console as new and get 3 years warrantee from the day after thanksgiving..

My May 2006 built unit which I got last Christmas died tonight. It was not used all that much. It freezed up once a week ago (last time I played) and then froze about 5 times tonight before giving me the red rings. Error code was 0102. I called MS and got a pleasant CSR who processed me for an RMA. I need my xbox back for Rock Band!!!!

I received my unit back on 11/29, 3 weeks + 1 day after I called MS. While it is labeled with a Nov 2007 build date, it doesn't have HDMI, so I suspect it is probably a refurb. So far it is working fine and it has survived several 3 hour Guitar Hero III sessions this past weekend.

Add me to the ranks, died last Friday night...coffin en route. Towards the end the drive sounded horrible and had problems loading games. That and it would do that annoying "close tray" on the dashboard 70% of the time. So in a way I'm glad it red ringed. I will feel pity if they recycle my drive into one of your refurbs.

It's the 0102 error. Given 3 weeks until Christmas I doubt Santa will be dropping off the refurb before then.

Less than a year, got it a few days before Christmas last year.

12/04/07: My 3rd unit got RROD, ordered coffin today. Looked for an Elite and seems all local areas are out of them.

My 360 just die now, 2 in one year and both from playing halo3. Do you think that they will give me one with the HDMI port and the 65nm chip set?

My 360 just die now, 2 in one year and both from playing halo3. Do you think that they will give me one with the HDMI port and the 65nm chip set?

Absolutely! They're also likely to give you one with dilithium heatsinks, an unobtanium DVD drive, and magical pixie dust inside...all as useful in protection against 3RoD as 65nm chips would be. :rolleyes:

When I sent my xbox back, I had the ref no on the outside of the box and the inside of the box, now I hear that that wasn't good enough, what can I expect?

Absolutely! They're also likely to give you one with dilithium heatsinks, an unobtanium DVD drive, and magical pixie dust inside...all as useful in protection against 3RoD as 65nm chips would be. :rolleyes:

The three rings of dead is a heat problem, so the 65nm chip would produce less of it and in the long run would only help everybody.:)

The three rings of dead is a heat problem, so the 65nm chip would produce less of it and in the long run would only help everybody.:) No the 3 rings is generic to many issues.

The three rings of dead is a heat problem, so the 65nm chip would produce less of it and in the long run would only help everybody.:)

Time to brush up on some reading. New chips don't magically remove X-Clamps. :confused:

The MS propaganda machine rolls on. :(

A new report in the DigiTimes has the 65nm version of the Xbox 360's "Xenos" GPU coming out sometime in the fall. The new GPU will be made on TSMC's 65nm process, now that the foundry can make the 65nm eDRAM that goes into the product. As for the console's "Xenon" CPU, Chartered Semi will be making the 65nm version that's rumored to be slated for sometime in mid-2007. So I guess it's theoretically possible that we could see a version of the console with a 65nm CPU and a 90nm GPU before the whole thing goes to 65nm by the end of this year, but I doubt this.

Microsoft will want to start using the smaller chips as soon as it is feasible, because the smaller, cooler chips will let them redesign the console's insides for lower cost and higher reliability. But they'll only want to do this redesign once for 65nm, in order to get the full benefit of the die shrink. Some of this redesign may involve changes to the board-level layout, in addition to changes in the case's cooling apparatus. These changes will make the Xbox 360 cheaper to manufacture, and those savings will eventually (but not initially) be passed on to gamers in the form of price cuts on the console.

The upshot for those who're on the fence about getting an Elite 360, either as an upgrade or as a new console, is that you should wait until the fall if possible. The chances are virtually zero that a 65nm shrink will see a new form factor for the design, but a cooler-running version will be more stable and may last longer.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070430-coming-this-fall-a-65nm-xbox-360.html

...Microsoft will want to start using the smaller chips as soon as it is feasible, because the smaller, cooler chips will let them redesign the console's insides for lower cost and higher reliability...These changes will make the Xbox 360 cheaper to manufacture, and those savings will eventually (but not initially) be passed on to gamers in the form of price cuts on the console.


http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070430-coming-this-fall-a-65nm-xbox-360.html

Unless this "redesign" excludes X-Clamps, all it does is save MS cash. Like they need it.

Hey guys so I sent my 360 back and per the tracking number MS will have it on Wednesday. Based on other returns, whats the chance I get it back by xmas?

Hey guys so I sent my 360 back and per the tracking number MS will have it on Wednesday. Based on other returns, whats the chance I get it back by xmas?

It took 15 days to get one back when I sent them mine about a month or so ago. That was from the day they received it. So it may be possible. I just wouldn't count on it as I am sure they will not be working too hard the last couple days before Christmas.

My package arrived at MS on thursday of last week and it shipped out today.. For reference, it had error 0022.

Well it took under 2 weeks to get my replacement, mf date of the one I sent off was 11/26/2005 and the one I got back was 11/26/2005 but with a different serial and the better drive.
We shall see how long it takes for this one to crap out lol

My package arrived at MS on thursday of last week and it shipped out today.. For reference, it had error 0022.

One of the worst codes of all to have...probably why yours was "fixed" so quickly. You'll be getting a cannibalized Frankenstein replacement, rather than your original back.

i'm in the middle of a 3 red rings repair nightmare. I bought my 360 on launch day, never had a problem until about 3 weeks ago- 3 red rings. I called MS, set up the repair, and sent the xbox in. 2 weeks later, I got the xbox back, UNrepaired, and with $42 COD charges to boot. Since then i've spent over 15 hours on the phone with MS to find out what the hell happened. Apparently, my 360 was 'flagged' by the repair center, meaning that they think I'm a reseller repairing multiple xboxes. The only problem with that theory is that I'm not a reseller, and this is the first time i've ever tried to get a 360 repaired. Every rep that I've talked to at MS looks at my records, and says something like, "Gee, you've only got one console and one repair. There's no reason for you to be flagged. But there's nothing I can do- your console is flagged". INSANITY!! It's like being stuck in catch-22 in real life.
So, no xbox for about a month now, MS keeps accusing me of scamming them with no evidence, and even though every rep admits they've screwed up on my repair, they refuse to do anything about it.
Needless to say, I've registered complaints with the BBB and Attorney General's office in Washington State. We'll see what happens.
Sucks that this happened the same week Mass Effect came out. I'd really like to play it . . .

Looking at a 12 day turn around here. Shipped coffin on 11/30 and had a phone message 12/10 stating to expect XBox delivery on 12/11...sometime between 8am and 7pm, sig required. Hope the refurb functions. As a matter of principle and not willing to throw good money after bad, no new XBox games will be purchased this Christmas season. MS made it's bed.

...Sucks that this happened the same week Mass Effect came out. I'd really like to play it . . .

Then why not just fix the unit yourself and be done with it?

Got the refurb today as scheduled. No HDMI...just refurb. Hooked it up for a test run. Works but seems a very noisy fan. Lots of air coming out the back though. I'll let the boys give it a workout later...after homework. The "hours of operation" clock has been reset.

Then why not just fix the unit yourself and be done with it?


How do you do that?

Then why not just fix the unit yourself and be done with it?

well, I probably will end up doing that if I can't get MS to stop screwing me, but why void the warranty when I SHOULD be getting a refurb for free?!

How do you do that?

Type in "X-Clamp" for a search on this very thread. I've posted the fix at least 20 times.

well, I probably will end up doing that if I can't get MS to stop screwing me, but why void the warranty when I SHOULD be getting a refurb for free?!

I'm just saying that it appears MS isn't going to stop giving you the shaft. My sympathies on that. Plus, I don't consider MS' 3-year band-aid "repair" warantee as anything worth having in the first place.

I'm just saying that it appears MS isn't going to stop giving you the shaft. My sympathies on that. Plus, I don't consider MS' 3-year band-aid "repair" warantee as anything worth having in the first place.

well, it's official- MS says that once your console is flagged, there's no way to unflag it, even though they admit that it should never have been flagged in the first place. We'll see what the AG and BBB have to say about that.
In the meantime, I got lucky. I used to work at ziff davis (i'm working at lucasfilm/ILM/lucasarts nowadays) and the guys at EGM are going to help me out- they're giving me one of their 360's to use for now, and they're going to try to get mine repaired and find out what happened. Possibly going to be an article about it in EGM, but don't hold your breath waiting for that. I personally don't think it's THAT interesting a story.
But, anyway, thanks to my old friends @ ziff for helping me out! Shoe, Greg, Shane- thanks!!

well, it's official- MS says that once your console is flagged, there's no way to unflag it, even though they admit that it should never have been flagged in the first place. We'll see what the AG and BBB have to say about that.
In the meantime, I got lucky. I used to work at ziff davis (i'm working at lucasfilm/ILM/lucasarts nowadays) and the guys at EGM are going to help me out- they're giving me one of their 360's to use for now, and they're going to try to get mine repaired and find out what happened. Possibly going to be an article about it in EGM, but don't hold your breath waiting for that. I personally don't think it's THAT interesting a story.
But, anyway, thanks to my old friends @ ziff for helping me out! Shoe, Greg, Shane- thanks!!That is awesome. Nice to have friends like that. I would have suggested emailing Major Nelson or someone higher up. This is obviously a huge screw up on their part. No way to unflag someone who has been flagged is BS to me. Please keep us posted as to what goes on.

What reason would a console get flagged?

called about the coffin today. a pleasant experience overall. really enjoyed talking to MAX the automated rep. very life like. much better than the human i got afterward. slight Indian accent, though not as strong an accent as i have experienced elsewhere. she had a hard time with my name, particularly the letter D and O. maybe i wasn't speaking clearly all 5 times, she kept thinking i said B and A.

called about the coffin today. a pleasant experience overall. really enjoyed talking to MAX the automated rep. very life like. much better than the human i got afterward. slight Indian accent, though not as strong an accent as i have experienced elsewhere. she had a hard time with my name, particularly the letter D and O. maybe i wasn't speaking clearly all 5 times, she kept thinking i said B and A.

Here's hoping your coffin doesn't land up in California.

What reason would a console get flagged?

Many different things, most (not quite all) of which I don't think are conducive to discussion here.

I just wanted to add for informational purposes that I've had three RROD 360's. I finally gave up and traded mine in and used the credit towards getting a new 65mm "Falcon" console. We'll see if this fixes the problem (it might lessen it a bit,but probably won't completely fix it).

I've been playing video games since before the NES came out and this is without a doubt the worst made console EVER as far as failure rates. I know more people that have had to send one in than haven't. This is just ludicrous.

If I get the RROD again I'm going to "give up" and just get a PS3 strictly out of principle. I feel like enough of a tool as it is for putting up with all of this.

I just wanted to add for informational purposes that I've had three RROD 360's. I finally gave up and traded mine in and used the credit towards getting a new 65mm "Falcon" console. We'll see if this fixes the problem (it might lessen it a bit,but probably won't completely fix it).

I've been playing video games since before the NES came out and this is without a doubt the worst made console EVER as far as failure rates. I know more people that have had to send one in than haven't. This is just ludicrous.

If I get the RROD again I'm going to "give up" and just get a PS3 strictly out of principle. I feel like enough of a tool as it is for putting up with all of this.

I think everyone needs to start calling the Microsoft Corporate Headquarters and raising He**. Don't call the support number to complain, it never goes anywhere. If the headquarters switchboard gets bombarded with calls maybe it will finally get someone's attention. Microsoft should be ashamed. And to think I've been a Microsoft developer and backer all these years. This will be the last Microsoft product I buy. Hello PS3...., Hello SUN and J2EE.....

Here's some important info for you guys receiving replacement consoles through the MS extended warranty:


I just sent in my second console in for repairs (RRoD), it's one of the original pro/premium models w/out HDMI.

Looking through my service contract, it states:

In the rare event your Microsoft Entertainment Device can't be fixed, we'll comfort you with a replacement model.

If all else fails and our service professionals actually conclude your Microsoft Entertainment Product is beyond repair, we'll provide you with a replacement including the latest features. So your Microsoft Service Contract can pay for itself several times over with this benefit alone.

The last time I checked the HDMI port is considered the latest feature and now comes standard with the pro/premium consoles.

Point is, if you send in an older console w/o HDMI and Microsoft can't fix it and sends you back a machine other than the one you sent in, you're entitled to a newer console w/HDMI, don't settle for anything less!

I pointed this fact out to two supervisers and both gave me a hard time and refused to honor the agreement, and said I'll only get back a non/HDMI console like the one I sent in. This morning I spoke with a third supervisor and he agreed with me totally and couldn't understand why the two previous supervisors told me otherwise.

He have me a reference number and said that if I don't receive a console with the newest features (HDMI) from the repair center, that I should call with the reference number he gave me and that they will expedite a replacement console with the HDMI port.

Personally, I don't need the HDMI port, but I want to be assured that I get a "newer" refurb, not some old crap that's been laying around. I'm fairly certain these pro/premium consoles with the standard HDMI ports just started hitting the shelves in August 2007.

NOTE: This only applies if you have purchased the extended warranty through Microsoft

Good luck.

Question for you BBNERIC

Did they send you an HDMI unit
b/c im going thru HELL I've spoken to about 7 supervisors
who answer to NOBODY but themselves.
I have extended warranty and im on 3rd xbox 360.
Let me know if you got an HDMI. I spoke to a supervisor name Sal
on Monday who agreed with me and was suppose to call
me back yesterday Wed. 12 2007 .He never called and never documented
call.

by the way MS LOST a CUSTOMER, I alrdy have a PS3
I rather play ONLINE for free anyways. But I've told my friiends
acouple who were going to buy xbox 360's for Xmas are NOw buying
the Wii and Ps3> I will Tell Anybody who listens to me about MS crappy
policies. Not my FAULT they system IS CRAP!!! I brought NEw and it
SHOULD be replace with NEW SYSTEM point blank. NOT SOME CRAP...

I agree with terpsfan59
100 %


I think everyone needs to start calling the Microsoft Corporate Headquarters and raising He**. Don't call the support number to complain, it never goes anywhere. If the headquarters switchboard gets bombarded with calls maybe it will finally get someone's attention. Microsoft should be ashamed.

Microsoft Pacific Northwest District: Bellevue, WA
Contact Information
Address:
Civica Office Building
205 108th Ave. NE, Suite 400
Bellevue, WA 98004
Phone: (425) 705-1900
Fax: (425) 936-7329

Well, my Elite went south last night. Locked up in the middle of the game with a screen full of graphical artifacts. After attempting to reboot it a couple times, it gave me the infamous RROD. Like many others, it had a code of 0102. Called Microsoft today and they're sending me a box.

Looks like I won't be playing Rock Band over the holidays. I had purchased the game as a gift for the whole family, and even got my wife excited about it. Talk about bad timing. :(

Well, my Elite went south last night....Like many others, it had a code of 0102. :(

The most simple code to fix. You'll probably get your original back, rather than a Frankenstein.

I got mine and it had the mfg date of 11-21-07, guess I got lucky.

The most simple code to fix. You'll probably get your original back, rather than a Frankenstein.

So, what does that mean? Will they just swap the board, or is there more to it?

I got mine and it had the mfg date of 11-21-07, guess I got lucky.

How could getting a unit built from everyone else's old parts, but with a new sticker slapped across the outside be considered "lucky" in any way?

So, what does that mean? Will they just swap the board, or is there more to it?

They'll likely just remove the X-clamps and then repaste the chips. The problem here is that you end up with the clamps right back on again at the end. If they don't do this so-called "repair" then probably just a board swap, as you said. They find a unit with a drive issue, assume the board is good, and yank the board from that, simply flash-marrying the two later. Either way, you've still got a unit that isn't truly fixed.

I woulda thought that they would still leave the original manufacturing date on it, or give some other notification that it's a refurbed unit..

I got mine and it had the mfg date of 11-21-07, guess I got lucky.

I got my third unit back from MS in early november with a manufacture date of 10-17-07. It died 2 nights ago. They piece together other people's crap and slap a new sticker on it. My "new" unit lasted a little over a month. Good luck with yours ;)

What reason would a console get flagged?

MS told me multiple times that there are two basic ways- one, your customer account has multiple repairs on multiple serial numbers (that's what MS is saying is up with me, even though they ALSO say that they only have one repair on one serial number in my records. :mad:) or your warranty tamper sticker is tampered with.

My 360 Pro died for the 3rd time two days ago. I called support and they guaranteed me a new one since this was the 3rd time it broke. They said however I could only get the same system as I had before (ie no HDMI) even though I argued that they are in fact the same system. Microsoft doesn't differentiate between the two. They are both PRO, they both cost the same in the stores, and retailers don't differentiate.

However, I received a call today from some other department who said that support was wrong and I am not guaranteed anything and in all likelihood I would just get a repair or another refurb. I argued for like 45 minutes to an hour and she just kept saying she couldn't do anything. I'd have to mail a letter to Microsoft.

This stuff pisses me off to no end. This thing is a ticking time bomb. I don't want another system that is just going to break a day after my warranty period ends.

Thank god that I do't play games and maybe this console will last a little bit longer as a media extender.

They'll likely just remove the X-clamps and then repaste the chips. The problem here is that you end up with the clamps right back on again at the end. If they don't do this so-called "repair" then probably just a board swap, as you said. They find a unit with a drive issue, assume the board is good, and yank the board from that, simply flash-marrying the two later. Either way, you've still got a unit that isn't truly fixed.

You'd think they would figure out a way to completely fix the problem units, rather than slap a band-aid on it. It eats into their profit margin every time they have to make a repair. It's pretty sad that such a great gaming platform has such poor design.

I have a question.. Is there anybody here or anyone that knows people that have gotten the refurbished unit and that was the end of their problems?

Does anyone know how I would cause a RRoD? I need to get my 360 fixed again and would rather not pay the 99 dollar fee. Im getting the audio only no video problem and the towel trick fixed it only temporarily.

Does anyone know how I would cause a RRoD? I need to get my 360 fixed again and would rather not pay the 99 dollar fee. Im getting the audio only no video problem and the towel trick fixed it only temporarily.

Do you own Gears of War? If not, go rent it and see if that does the trick. My launch unit died after playing Gears of War for literally no more than 10 seconds.

Otherwise block up like 5/8 of the vent holes on the console and let that bad boy burn your house down.

Actually yes I do have GoW and beat it already it had no effect on my 360 when I played it. I tried overheating it already thats what the towel trick essentially does heat up the circuit board and creates a sort of "better" flow for the currents or something like that. The messed up thing is that this one has already been fixed once for the RRoD and I just sent in my other one today for repair for yep you guessed it the RRoD. Looks like I might be picking uip a PS3 pretty soon.

Put it in a cardboard box and with a small hole in it just large enough to sneak in the power supply plug. Turn on Gears of War and see if you can overheat it that way.

Yea I tried that but no success. Now it just boots up and still no video.

My 360 Pro died for the 3rd time two days ago. I called support and they guaranteed me a new one since this was the 3rd time it broke. They said however I could only get the same system as I had before (ie no HDMI) even though I argued that they are in fact the same system. Microsoft doesn't differentiate between the two. They are both PRO, they both cost the same in the stores, and retailers don't differentiate.

However, I received a call today from some other department who said that support was wrong and I am not guaranteed anything and in all likelihood I would just get a repair or another refurb. I argued for like 45 minutes to an hour and she just kept saying she couldn't do anything. I'd have to mail a letter to Microsoft.

This stuff pisses me off to no end. This thing is a ticking time bomb. I don't want another system that is just going to break a day after my warranty period ends.

New units with HDMI are doomed to the same fate as ones without, as well as the Elites and ALL other XBox 360 units ever made to this point. It's irrelevant. If you want a unit that isn't a ticking time bomb, you have to go with another manufacturer, unless you want a regular XBox. Period.

A christmas miracle? ha ha They received my rrod 360 on thursday and shipped today with a delivery date of 12/21. Thats pretty sweet since I wasnt expecting it til after xmas. I get Bourne Ultimatum HD DVD in the mail tomorrow so the timing is perfect

received coffin today.

UPS didn't even ring the bell (FedEx always does). he just left the box on the porch. wife found it leaving for work @ 10pm.

my son is going through some sort of withdrawals.

For a somewhat tech savvy guy the rrod is a 10 minute fix, if not then 30 minutes. There are plenty of videos out there showing how to fix th rrod. Mine died a couple months ago and after I replaced the xclamps with nuts and bolts it works flawless.

A christmas miracle? ha ha They received my rrod 360 on thursday and shipped today with a delivery date of 12/21. Thats pretty sweet since I wasnt expecting it til after xmas. I get Bourne Ultimatum HD DVD in the mail tomorrow so the timing is perfect

I received my box on Monday and shipped it back out the same day. They received it back yesterday, so I'm hoping the repair turnaround will be quick as well. I doesn't hurt that the repair center is only a 6 hour drive from where I live. :)

yea well im hoping with the new system update and hd dvd update it doesnt brick again..lol

Microsoft aka Bad tech team. On december 1st i got rrod so i called up microsoft and got my coffin. I shiped it off and it took 2 weeks untill I got it back. I was hoping for a new one or maybe even a refurbished one but of course i got "my" xbox back. Ready to play it, i opened it up out of the box, plugged it in, and VIOLA RROD. Damn don't you think they would check the damn xbox before sending it off to me as "fixed." What a damn waste of time.

Got mine back the other day...what a disappointment. I received somebody else's Frankenstein box and it's noisier than my original launch box. The only thing tying me to the 360 is my friends list. Used to be a PS3 hater, not so much anymore.

I feel guilty, but my 360 just red ringed on me for the 2nd time and my girlfriend got me COD4 for Christmas. So, I went to my local CC and picked up the arcade version with the intention of returning it in 30 days. Hopefully, my repaired unit will be back by then. Anyone else do this? It makes me mad too, I just get my vacation time and it gives me RROD!!

I feel guilty, but my 360 just red ringed on me for the 2nd time and my girlfriend got me COD4 for Christmas. So, I went to my local CC and picked up the arcade version with the intention of returning it in 30 days. Hopefully, my repaired unit will be back by then. Anyone else do this? It makes me mad too, I just get my vacation time and it gives me RROD!!

What makes ME mad is that people are screwing BB, CC, and other B&M stores and their customers by going out and getting "rental" consoles while their RoD units are being fixed. It's not the fault of these stores or consumers that MS choose to make a POS system. MS should have a fixed number of units available as replacements for these stores so that otherwise ethical persons aren't forced to do something that falls into a borderline gray area, at best. :mad:

That said, I suppose the B&Ms are using the money, interest free for 30 days, so it's only the future buyers of said units that are truly taking it in the... :eek:

I respect your opinion and you make a good point about MS having replacement consoles available at stores.

Yay!! First night of my 11-day holiday vacation and I get teh infamous RROD while trying to get an achievement in HL2 Episode 1. Had a launch model, and I stood on my pedestal proudly while every other person I know with a 360 had to send theirs in. LAWLZ.

Called M$, accented guy asks me the usual questions and tries very hard to make forced conversation about Assassin's Creed before letting me know that The Coffin was getting sent. Just before Xmas...yeah, I'll be seeing that soon.:rolleyes:

Good thing I have a PS3 and a Wii as well, eh?

Well I got mine back last night. Manf. date is 11/27/07 so I guess thats good. The only thing that pisses me off is that now the wife cant play the games we own on her nametag. Thats nuts. I hope they fix that soon

Well I got mine back last night. Manf. date is 11/27/07 so I guess thats good...

How is that good? :confused: You got a new sticker slapped on the back of an old unit made from spare parts.

Well I got mine back last night. Manf. date is 11/27/07 so I guess thats good. The only thing that pisses me off is that now the wife cant play the games we own on her nametag. Thats nuts. I hope they fix that soon

If you get a replacement console then they are supposed to reassign your downloaded content to the replacement console within 30 days. Then you are supposed to delete and redownload the content. If it still doesn't work then you need to call MS.

So I called M$ today. My DVD drive is going out. Dirty disc errors, Unreadable disc, etc... Just in time for my 2 week vacation. They told me since this is my 2nd dead XBOX that I will be sending back my power supply as well this time. Does this mean they will be sending me back a Falcon or is this standard M$ policy?

BoomerBrian,

It means that they want to check the power supply as well...not that the ps has anything at all to do with the DVD drive, but that's MS for you. (Remeber, this is the same company that blamed the RoD on anything other than plugging the unit in. :rolleyes:) Falcon or no Falcon, your replacement will still be doomed to the same fate as all other 360s.

Well my 360 died on me back on Dec 2nd. I called up MS and they sent me a coffin. It was just error code 0102 so I started messing around in the meantime... I sprayed the inside all with compressed air thinking it may have gotten dusty...well after I did that, the damn thing worked perfectly. So i recieved the coffin box, but still enjoyed playing my 360 without any hiccups. Then this weekend comes about, and sure enough it starts to freeze and the RRoD comes back. Plop it in the coffin and off to MS this time around...will check back in with my status of the return for anyones interest.

This is my 2nd returned xbox now (this one last me about 18 months), I originally won my 360 from Mountain dew, so I don't really care :)

I got my 360 last December. Almost exactly 12 months later, my kids were playing Lego Star Wars, and the screen froze. I shut off the machine and turned it on again and I got the 3 red rings. So I disconnected everything and turned it on again and it booted fine. I tried to play a demo and it froze about 10 seconds in. Turned it off and on again and the 3 rings were back. 0102. I registered online thru Xbox, cuz I didn't want to speak to someone who I probably wouldn't be able to understand. They're sending me the box. Figures that my wife got me an HDDVD and a game for Christmas, and I got my kids DDR Universe!

Also, my brother-in-law just had the 3 red rings a month or so ago. He sent his in, got a different one back, and when you plug it in and turn it on, the circle does not illuminate at all, just the little power symbol in the middle, and nothing is displayed on the screen! He's sending THAT one back now...

The xbox we got for Christmas last year died today (ring of death). So, it is exactly one year later. Figures as we got Guitar Hero III and several other games and HD-DVD's as gifts. I have not tried any of the fixes yet, but thanks in advance for this thread.

- Hal

The xbox we got for Christmas last year died today (ring of death). So, it is exactly one year later. Figures as we got Guitar Hero III and several other games and HD-DVD's as gifts. I have not tried any of the fixes yet, but thanks in advance for this thread.

- Hal

Microsoft told me a couple of days ago that it would only be 1-2 weeks this time around.

Microsoft told me a couple of days ago that it would only be 1-2 weeks this time around.

Once they received mine they "repaired" it in less than 2 days. Was about 2 1/2 weeks from the time I called it in.

So I got my "replacement" on friday and it played great all weekend. I took it to my brothers on xmas and as I was leaving I unhooked it, realized there was a game in it so I plugged it in real quick, hit eject and i got all 4 red lights. An hour later at home I was able to play just fine. Should I just call and claim my 2 RROD in 2 weeks. Im tired of this SH*t

So I got my "replacement" on friday and it played great all weekend. I took it to my brothers on xmas and as I was leaving I unhooked it, realized there was a game in it so I plugged it in real quick, hit eject and i got all 4 red lights. An hour later at home I was able to play just fine. Should I just call and claim my 2 RROD in 2 weeks. Im tired of this SH*t

I'm assuming you got all 4 lights because your AV cable wasn't plugged in at the time.

yea they werent plugged in. So no worries then?

yea they werent plugged in. So no worries then?

No. No worries at all. 4 red lights when AV cord is not secure. Your 360 is just fine.

yea they werent plugged in. So no worries then?

Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say NO worries, as you do have a Frankenstein replacement console, so it's only a matter of time...but no worries for now.

Well, my 360 elite (bought on elite launch day) froze up, gave me the RROD, then a checkerboard pattern, then RROD, then checkerboard again....BUT then played smoothly for about an hour.

Is this the beginning of the end or did I narrowly escape for the time being?

Well, my 360 elite (bought on elite launch day) froze up, gave me the RROD, then a checkerboard pattern, then RROD, then checkerboard again....BUT then played smoothly for about an hour.

Is this the beginning of the end or did I narrowly escape for the time being?

The former of the two options you listed, without a doubt. It's toast.

Any reports with ROD on the premiums with hdmi? I hought I read somewhere that they had better heatsinks. BTW im talkig zephyer models.

Ya know, I just thought about it, and I kind of miss the original, much quieter, big'ol XBOX. I haven't had the three rings happen, just wanted to vent. Hope to never be back on this thread, c-ya, have a nice day! Hope ur 360s get well soon!

Well, my 360 elite (bought on elite launch day) froze up, gave me the RROD, then a checkerboard pattern, then RROD, then checkerboard again....BUT then played smoothly for about an hour.

Is this the beginning of the end or did I narrowly escape for the time being?


My first (launch day) 360 did pretty much the same thing. You might be able to play a game or 2, but it is dead as mentioned, so go ahead and get the return process going. If you get to play a little until the coffin gets here, it is a bonus, but it will probably not work at all soon.

Any reports with ROD on the premiums with hdmi? I hought I read somewhere that they had better heatsinks. BTW im talkig zephyer models.

If you paint your case pink, it solves the RoD problem, same as adding an hdmi port.

For the record: My 360 Premium (built 10/2006) died 4 days prior to it's warranty anniversary (or so Ricardo from MS Tech Support stated). If you'd like, you can skim the LIVE forums to find Elites are also getting RRoD so this doesn't seem to be eliminated 100% with the newer Black elites and Premiums w/HDMI.

This is my 3rd Xbox, as two had been RRoD prior (2nd one I sold to friend and bought a replacement as I was impatient...three days after I bought new one, MS announced the warranty extension on RRoD issues!).:mad:

I also have a PS3 and I am not trying to sound like a "fanboy" but I am enjoying it much more than I expected. There are differences (no achievements, no friend's popping up,...) but I may just sell the returned, repaired 360.

My 360 RRoD on 12/14, and the "coffin" showed in 12/19 for which I shipped it out on 12/20. I figure due to holidays, I will see it by 1/11/08. MS gave me a "complimentary" one month LIVE extension (duh! I'm without your $#@! for 4 weeks...and during the most playable season...).

Meanwhile, a few friends got PS3s for Xmas and now I am at the crossroads; time to weigh ebaying the lot of my games, accessories and 360. :confused:

I've got both systems, and since car analogies are so common, I prefer to look at it this way:

My 360 is like the "project" car I keep to one side of the garage. I'm always trying to keep the thing running, and when it is I love taking it out. It's loud, fast, and impresses folks.

My "other" console is like the wife's car. It has everything she could ever want or need. It's reliable, quiet, smooth, and responsive.

Sell your 360 if you must, but it also means you'll be letting go of a part of your life that you'll most likely regret leaving behind. At worst, it means occasionally sending it in for repairs. So what? You'll have the other "car" to get you through the intervening time.

My first (launch day) 360 did pretty much the same thing. You might be able to play a game or 2, but it is dead as mentioned, so go ahead and get the return process going. If you get to play a little until the coffin gets here, it is a bonus, but it will probably not work at all soon.
Thanks for the replies guys...my first launch day console RRoD about 5 months after getting it...then I sold it (after it was repaired by Bill Gates) to get the elite...and now this one is f'd.

I guess I'll just sell this one once Bill gets his little tools out and get another one and pray.

After they repair the 360's do people still have the same problem? i just had mine to die and getting it repaired.

the replacement 360 that MS sent me lasted about 18 months, I'm now awaiting my second replacement 360. I hope to get it in mid-January. I'm currently watching the tracking # of my coffin to MS.

So I guess the new heatsink ain't helping. Pink LOL nice choice! Maybe you can add unicorn and rainbow stickers to it.

23 months to the day since I purchased my 360, it finally died yesterday. About a week ago, it gave me its first RROD. A quick shut-off/shut-on always worked... until last night. I made the tech call at about 1:30 am Central this morning, and am now awaiting The Coffin.

Thankfully, I got to a point to where I wanted to take a break from COD4 multiplayer, and I've only played about 30 minutes of MASS EFFECT so far. Looks like Mario and Nathan Drake will be getting lots of playtime over the next few weeks.

Sold my 360 on Fleabay 2 days ago. Never going back. I'll live with my PS3 which I've done for the pass couple of montsh anyways b/c second 360 lasted barely 5 wks. So off I go to PS3 land. Where I DONT have to pay to play online or worry about the RROD anymore. MS SUKS BIG TIME.

loving the elite connected to my 60" XBR2 via hdmi. thoroughly enjoying assassins creed. the new system runs much cooler and quieter than the old system.
still waiting for the old original launch sytem to come back from "repair"

Sold my 360 on Fleabay 2 days ago. Never going back. I'll live with my PS3 which I've done for the pass couple of montsh anyways b/c second 360 lasted barely 5 wks. So off I go to PS3 land. Where I DONT have to pay to play online or worry about the RROD anymore. MS SUKS BIG TIME. Yeah cuz that "free" online network is so much better. :rolleyes:

Sold my 360 on Fleabay 2 days ago. Never going back. I'll live with my PS3 which I've done for the pass couple of montsh anyways b/c second 360 lasted barely 5 wks. So off I go to PS3 land. Where I DONT have to pay to play online or worry about the RROD anymore. MS SUKS BIG TIME.

While i don't neccessarily share your reasoning i too sold my 360 for a PS3,only for the fact that i prefur the PS3 games over the 360 games.

i know the free online isn't up to live's standards, but i think the quiet operation of the PS3,compared to the 360 and reliability of not worrying about getting an RROD everytime i turn my 360 on more than make up for the PS3's shortcomings.

plus the battery life in the PS3 controller lasts longer than the 360 one.

well today is a sad day. My launch console finally gave up and gave me the 3 lights. I grimaced and slowly and depressing dialed each number of the MS support line. I had prided my self on having a fully functioning launch console but now have to admit defeat. Anyways no bad story(yet?) I'm shipping my console onmonday via the pre paid label their sending mevia email. Hopefullya replacement will come soon.

Here's something interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJBzFJk9wjo

This isn't fake. Just got one yesterday with 0020 and this actually worked...though I had to adjust each of the bolts a few times. Strange thing is that if I took the DVD drive out of the case, the 360 went to error 0020, but if I set the drive in place atop the heatsink, the unit worked fine. Very odd indeed, but great news, since any of the 002X errors are typically a console-killer.

Here's something interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJBzFJk9wjo

This isn't fake. Just got one yesterday with 0020 and this actually worked...though I had to adjust each of the bolts a few times. Strange thing is that if I took the DVD drive out of the case, the 360 went to error 0020, but if I set the drive in place atop the heatsink, the unit worked fine. Very odd indeed, but great news, since any of the 002X errors are typically a console-killer.

That is insane.

Got a call from my friend yesterday. He is now waiting on his 4th replacement Xbox from Microsoft.

1. Original launch unit lasted roughly 1 year
2. Replacement unit lasted roughly 6 months
3. Second replacement unit was dead-on-arrival
4. Third replacement unit died after 30 minutes
5. Currently waiting on fourth replacement unit

Personally, I'm only on my second unit and am glad that I purchased mine at BBY with the product plan. This is ridiculous!

Update: Now my friend's wife 360 died on 12/31 and he still hasn't received his cardboard coffin for his own unit after four weeks (and five phone calls). This is pathetic.

11/22/05 to 12/31/07 :(
My Luck has ran out I finally joined the club
Glad I have more than 1 360.

I have a request that from now on, and for the sake of all involved, that everyone post their error code and then do a follow-up on how long it took to get your (Frankenstein/Original/Refurb) unit back. I'm nearly certain that anyone that has one of the nastier codes will get a different unit fairly quickly, while others with "easier" codes will get their original back in slightly more time.


THANKS!

My "ELITE" lasted, get this about 12 hours!!!!!!!!!! Dell sending a new one , PS3 still going strong hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Error code 0021.. Repair request went in today. well yesterday (12-31).

I didn't even get an error code.

I didn't even get an error code.

:confused: Meh??? What did you get? (I'm assuming you got either a secondary code onscreen or just a flashing/solid green light in the center of the ring, given your comment.)

If/when my Elite dies I am gonna crack it open and dot he X clamp replacement, some Talismoons and a case fan. Actually I may do that for preventative maintenance.

Just an update...still no coffin from MS for my RRoD Elite...went out and bought a new Elite as I'll be selling the other one when MS sends it back.

BTW...I have 2 brothers with 360s...one had his launch console RRoD a few months ago and the other had his RRoD just last night.

3 brothers...4 RRoD's (2 for me)....FUN!

Got RRoD for the second time (in one year) and they sent me a 360 with an older (by eight months) manufacture date. Ticked me off, so I complained to Microsoft and to BBB that's in the same region as Redmond WA. Don't know if will do any good. But to send an older unit back, with the excuse "in order to expedite your repair we have sent a replacement" is just wrong...:mad:

I got the RROD about two years after my first 360. They sent me a replacement with a builb date of 11/07. It literally lasted 30 minutes of play time. They now asked for that console and to send in my power brick as well. I haven't gamed for more than 30 minutes in the last two months. It is hard for me considering I played an average of 30 hours a week. PS3 is out of the question for me I am a fan of the 360 I just hope they get it right this time.

They sent me a replacement with a builb date of 11/07. It literally lasted 30 minutes of play time...I just hope they get it right this time.

Hoping against hope. Boy, is your glass half full.

got my repair back yesterday. 16 days. i didn't know about the codes before i sent it in so i cant report what they were. the one they sent was a different one. 3 months newer build date. i plugged it in to insure it powered up but have not played anything on it. I'll report back after its played if there are any issues. BTW they also included a free month of live gold.

it would be interesting if everyone could post the serial numbers of the sent in units and the received units. then we possibly could track if someone here got our old boxes.

Does anyone know what kind of warranty (if any) you get on a refurbished 360? I had to send my original 360 back to them in May due to the 3 red lights, and they sent me a refurb back about 2 weeks later. Now the refurb's disk drive is messing up -not reading the discs, making a weird whining noise, and sometimes it will not even open.

I had a weird scenario happen. I was going to play NHL'08 with my son and it froze 3 times (rebooted the machine in between). Then I got the dreaded RROD. Left it alone for a few hours and tried it again with a different game (COD4). Same thing - froze when I started playing but no RROD. So I called M$. I described the problem and they immediately say its a goner and send out a coffin. The next night is our weekly boys COD4 game so I figured I'd try it and see if I could at least play for a bit before it conked out. The bloody thing went for 4 hours with no probs. I played for another 2 hours on single player the next night.

Opinions on whether I should send it back? M$ guy says the coffin has a limited shelf life (forget how many days it is).

Does anyone know what kind of warranty (if any) you get on a refurbished 360? I had to send my original 360 back to them in May due to the 3 red lights, and they sent me a refurb back about 2 weeks later. Now the refurb's disk drive is messing up -not reading the discs, making a weird whining noise, and sometimes it will not even open.




a paper i got with my replacement doesnt really say anything about a waranty for that product. other than that they will handle the registering of the new SN. if you had a microsoft service contract they will establish a new contract. and if you had a service contract through a dealer you should contact them.
it should be covered for other defects for some amount of time by MS. perhaps call CSR and see what they say. please post back.

M$ guy says the coffin has a limited shelf life (forget how many days it is).

never heard of a cardboard box spoiling:rolleyes::D

probably has something to do with the shipping label.

I'd fix it. it will eventually get worse. we were able to play ours sporadically for a month then it just gave up completely.

never heard of a cardboard box spoiling:rolleyes::D

probably has something to do with the shipping label.

I'd fix it. it will eventually get worse. we were able to play ours sporadically for a month then it just gave up completely.

Yeah, it's 30 days. And it is due to the shipping label expiring.

Does anyone know what kind of warranty (if any) you get on a refurbished 360? I had to send my original 360 back to them in May due to the 3 red lights, and they sent me a refurb back about 2 weeks later. Now the refurb's disk drive is messing up -not reading the discs, making a weird whining noise, and sometimes it will not even open.


They will cover it. My original launch console died back in May of 06. I called up and they gave me a replacement console (new serial, same build date). Now this one died, and I shipped it back to them for replacement again, waiting for a new one back.

How long does it take from when you mail your box to them and you get a replacement? It took 2-3 weeks for them just to mail me the box and now I'm waiting for them to send it back. I'm itching to play my 360 games again.

How long does it take from when you mail your box to them and you get a replacement? It took 2-3 weeks for them just to mail me the box and now I'm waiting for them to send it back. I'm itching to play my 360 games again.

Well, the holidays are to thank for the delay of your coffin I'm sure.

Once you send it back and they receive it, it takes about a 1-2 day turnaround, and the bad news... they ship them back FedEx Ground, which is obscenely slow.

so i just got off the phone with M$ xbox support. The agent was really nice actually and understanding. I told him that my xbox was freezing up leading up to the 3 red RoL. He said dont bother mentioning that since I'll only get free replacement on the 3 red lights. WHAT!?!?!

He told me that M$ has lengthened the warranty to 3 YEARS..only for the 3 red lights ring of death. My console has been out of warranty since June 07...and they are going to send me a prepaid shipping box and said they would more than likely replace or repair the unit free of charge.

The only problem is that i live in Panama...and they wont send a UPS box down here so i have to find a way to get the console up to Miami. Ill have to pay for that. Although i expected it.

Sounds like it's soon to be fully non functional. When you had the freezing did the screen show any video break-up or off-collors from the normal game colors?

Mine started freezing with video break-up color issues then would work without problem for several days then eventually when turned on only 3 red lights no video.

Mine was 6 months old when it went had it in a well ventilated room sitting horizontal with nothing around it. It has to be a design flaw in the heatsink / heat dissipation the concave design in the middle of the casing and the shielding all around the GPU/CPU holds the heat in and the fans on the back can not ventilate it well enough.

Sad because it is really a good platform other than its high mortlaity rate.

Sounds like it's soon to be fully non functional. When you had the freezing did the screen show any video break-up or off-collors from the normal game colors?

Mine started freezing with video break-up color issues then would work without problem for several days then eventually when turned on only 3 red lights no video.

Mine was 6 months old when it went had it in a well ventilated room sitting horizontal with nothing around it. It has to be a design flaw in the heatsink / heat dissipation the concave design in the middle of the casing and the shielding all around the GPU/CPU holds the heat in and the fans on the back can not ventilate it well enough.

Sad because it is really a good platform other than its high mortlaity rate.

Mine did the exact same thing. would freeze up..some times with the video break-up and some times nothing and sometimes to a black screen. But like you said...eventually got the 3 red lights.

You think on of those cooling platforms from a 3rd party is worth it? are they noisy?

I sent mine off today. The DVD drive is going bad. I put a note in there explaining the problem since it will work for a while before locking up. I have fears of them opening it up and turning on and sending it back because it worked when they turned it on.

Just got 3 red rings on my 2nd unit. A bit fed up w/ it so I took it back to costco and they gave me 540 cash. Used the cash to buy an 8800GT and new processor for my PC. I'm a PC/PS3 gamer now. I'll probably buy another 360 in a couple yrs when they are cheap and catch up on games that won't be on PC. Can't think of that many, but I'm sure there will be a few.

I got three three red rings recently, took it back to Costco, got my money back then bought a new one. I pray this one stays healthy.

...It has to be a design flaw in the heatsink / heat dissipation the concave design in the middle of the casing and the shielding all around the GPU/CPU holds the heat in and the fans on the back can not ventilate it well enough...

I suggest you read up on the real problem, as your guess is pretty far off.

You think on of those cooling platforms from a 3rd party is worth it? are they noisy?

No. Yes.

they ship them back FedEx Ground, which is obscenely slow.

and MS requires a signature upon delivery. so plan on either someone being home or picking it up yourself.

I suggest you read up on the real problem, as your guess is pretty far off.

you must be reffering to the x-clamp desigh yes I have read about it an dhow people have reaattached with different hardware , however working in the electronic industry for over 30 years and seeing how they entrap the heat with insufficient air movement around the hottest componenets on the board this is a design flaw.

you must be reffering to the x-clamp desigh yes I have read about it an dhow people have reaattached with different hardware , however working in the electronic industry for over 30 years and seeing how they entrap the heat with insufficient air movement around the hottest componenets on the board this is a design flaw.

Perhaps, but definitely NOT what causes the Ring of Death.

Ok I just got the rrod on my second console. First one was bought Feburary of 06 and died July of 07. Replaced under BB extended warranty. So today we go to play Halo 3 and as soon as I went to the lobby the picture froze. Reset and the picture froze at the 360 screen. Reset one more time and got the rrod. Took Halo 3 out and tried and it went all the way to the dashboard. Put in H3 and again as soon as I went to the lobby it froze. Now no matter what I get the rrod. Funny thing is the console has not even been on for a few weeks. And all was fine then. It sits right at the top of my rack so it gets plenty of ventilation. Going back to BB tomorrow for a second exchange. Is there anything I should be looking for in a replacement????

Ok I just got the rrod on my second console. First one was bought Feburary of 06 and died July of 07. Replaced under BB extended warranty. So today we go to play Halo 3 and as soon as I went to the lobby the picture froze. Reset and the picture froze at the 360 screen. Reset one more time and got the rrod. Took Halo 3 out and tried and it went all the way to the dashboard. Put in H3 and again as soon as I went to the lobby it froze. Now no matter what I get the rrod. Funny thing is the console has not even been on for a few weeks. And all was fine then. It sits right at the top of my rack so it gets plenty of ventilation. Going back to BB tomorrow for a second exchange. Is there anything I should be looking for in a replacement????

Make sure your replacement console is marked @ 175w instead of 203w on the outside stickers on the box. They are the newest revision of the 360's.

Is there anything I should be looking for in a replacement????

Absolutely. Replace the letters X, B, O, and X, along with the numbers 6, and 0 for a P, and an S for an absolutely worry-free console. ;)

Seriously, it makes no difference what version you get or when it's made. They all have X-Clamps. :(

My launch day 360 that I won from Pepsi/Mt. Dew finally kicked the bucket. Nothing will last for more than a few minutes before the RROD. Seeing as how I never actually had to pay for the first one, I think I'm just gonna go out and get an Arcade bundle and use my current hard drive. From a few of the pages I've read of this thread it looks like the power rating listed on the outside of the box of the newest hardware revisions should read 175w instead of the original 203w. Is there anything else I need to look for? I also remember reading somewhere that the HDMI cable and the Component/Optical Audio Dongle won't work together without some modding. How do I go about doing that? Sorry if this has been explained elsewhere, but I'm taking the loss kinda hard :(

My launch day 360 that I won from Pepsi/Mt. Dew finally kicked the bucket. Nothing will last for more than a few minutes before the RROD. Seeing as how I never actually had to pay for the first one, I think I'm just gonna go out and get an Arcade bundle and use my current hard drive. From a few of the pages I've read of this thread it looks like the power rating listed on the outside of the box of the newest hardware revisions should read 175w instead of the original 203w. Is there anything else I need to look for? I also remember reading somewhere that the HDMI cable and the Component/Optical Audio Dongle won't work together without some modding. How do I go about doing that? Sorry if this has been explained elsewhere, but I'm taking the loss kinda hard :(


Have you tried to see if MS will take your original 360 in for repair? I won my launch 360 from that promo aswell (yeah baby!). It died in May 2006, and now i'm awaiting the return repair of that one that died. It'd still be worth a shot to try and get it fixed, and perhaps sell it off if you really want to swap to a "falcon" revision 360.

Have you tried to see if MS will take your original 360 in for repair? I won my launch 360 from that promo aswell (yeah baby!). It died in May 2006, and now i'm awaiting the return repair of that one that died. It'd still be worth a shot to try and get it fixed, and perhaps sell it off if you really want to swap to a "falcon" revision 360.

I am going to send in my original and try to sell it when it comes back, but I wanna go get an arcade bundle now because:
1) I'm impatient
2) I have a 61' Samsung LED DLP and the HDMI would probably look better

My console the second 360 I have had build date late 2006 finally gave me the RROD last night, I took all the heat issues seriously but I guess it was playing Bioshock and GH3 it got too stressed out, so I drove 11 miles into town to the Walmart Superstore with all the info about how to spot the Falcon models, all units including the Halo specials showed the 203W psu, all of the Elites had a new sticker hiding the information, so I took a chance and bought an Elite, took it out to my truck and opened it up and found a 203w psu so I went back into the store and told them the facts, I was NOT buying OLD stock, I had definite reasons and explained everything to the customer service manager about the new consoles even hinting that the extra labeling was put there to help the stores sell the older models, they agreed and refunded my money.
I then went to Sears, they only also had the older units, so me and my kids then drove to Fred Meyers, just to let anyone know we live in Wasilla, Alaska about 35 miles north of Anchorage. All but the basic 360's were older units but we got lucky and bought the one that by all indications was the new Falcon board, when I mentioned about Walmart passing off old stock I got a nasty look from a nearby manager like how did I know about their secrets.
Anyway hopefully this is the end of the 360 self terminators!

they ship them back FedEx Ground, which is obscenely slow.

1-5 days depending on distance in continnental US same as the other guys in most cases.

a paper i got with my replacement doesnt really say anything about a waranty for that product. other than that they will handle the registering of the new SN. if you had a microsoft service contract they will establish a new contract. and if you had a service contract through a dealer you should contact them.
it should be covered for other defects for some amount of time by MS. perhaps call CSR and see what they say. please post back.

They will cover it. My original launch console died back in May of 06. I called up and they gave me a replacement console (new serial, same build date). Now this one died, and I shipped it back to them for replacement again, waiting for a new one back.

I called back a couple days ago...
Talked to a service rep and she did everything but flat out tell me that it wasn't their problem and that I would have to pay $100+ to have it fixed. I don't know if it was because it was just that the DVD drive was broke, but you would think that they would cover the entire console for a least sometime, due to the fact it's a refurb.
I asked her what was the waranty was on refurbs, and she would not give me a direct answer. I thought about asking to talk to her supervisor, but decided not to even go that route.
Long story short, I finally got irritated enough that I told them to cancel the repair order (from the first time I called - they had already charged my visa).

I wound up taking it to Wal-Mart, and after some talking to the lady behind the exchange counter, exchanged it for another one... (they did, however, let me change out the hard drive so that I could keep my original one.)

Well, the holidays are to thank for the delay of your coffin I'm sure.

Once you send it back and they receive it, it takes about a 1-2 day turnaround, and the bad news... they ship them back FedEx Ground, which is obscenely slow.

Anyone know of a way to get a tracking number on the shipment once the repair is completed? Mine is supposedly on its way. I tried using the regular support number, but got stuck in the phone queue. After 25 minutes on hold, I just gave up.

Update so far... Launch day unit Died 12-31, Sent in the repair request online 12-31, Received the coffin today (1-8). Will ship back to tomorrow (1-9).

bought this 360 september of 2006 and it just crapped out last week. I'm getting one red ring with the error code E74 and secondary code 1022.

Sucks for me cuz this error isn't covered under M$ 3 year warranty and I really don't have the $140 to fix it.

Anyone know how to repair this error? I tried using a different A/V cable but that didn't work. This is an error with the encoder chip.

I've fixed my Ps2 and original xbox by myself before but from what I've seen the 360 is a pain in the A$$. This really pisses me off cuz I got 4 new games for X-Mas and I can't even play then now. Going through a little withdrawal here.

Also, Should I bother spending the money to get it repaired?
try to fix it myself?
or
just sell it and put the money towards an brand nnew system?

Thanks

Mine was about the same date as yours, it died a couple days ago and I just threw it in my burn pit and forgot about it. Bought a 360 pro thats current with the falcon board, some things in life you have to walk away from.

I just threw it in my burn pit and forgot about it ... some things in life you have to walk away from.

After reading some of the posts on this board over the last couple of years, in this thread and some others (hd dvd, blu-ray), this made me laugh out loud. Thanks.

Mine was about the same date as yours, it died a couple days ago and I just threw it in my burn pit and forgot about it. Bought a 360 pro thats current with the falcon board, some things in life you have to walk away from.

:confused: If that is not the epitome of contradiction, I have no idea what would be. :confused:

Well, according to ups.com, my 360 arrived at the service center in Texas today. Let's see how long it takes to get back.

Anyone know of a way to get a tracking number on the shipment once the repair is completed? Mine is supposedly on its way. I tried using the regular support number, but got stuck in the phone queue. After 25 minutes on hold, I just gave up.

Yeah, unless your box is listed on service.xbox.com (mine wasn't), you have to call.

UPDATE:

Recieved my return xbox today, here's how it went:

Dec. 24th - Shipped out my dead Xbox360 (build date 10-25-2005)
Jan. 2nd - MS Recieved my dead unit
Jan 9th - I pick up my replacement at the FedEx Ground facility (they left a tag on my door)


The one they gave me is a new replacement - build date of 12-20-2007. From what I can tell with a flashlight, it's not a falcon. No HDMI either, ho hum. I'm just excited to be back in the gaming world again.

:confused: If that is not the epitome of contradiction, I have no idea what would be. :confused:
It meant the 2006 Xbox 360 without HDMI, hot board, the unit that died but may have been fixable I threw into an excavated hole dug with a backhoe that I burn my garbage in, it did not go to Microsoft to get "patched" because its obsolete to me now after I bought a new Falcon unit with HDMI.

It meant the 2006 Xbox 360 without HDMI, hot board, the unit that died but may have been fixable I threw into an excavated hole dug with a backhoe that I burn my garbage in, it did not go to Microsoft to get "patched" because its obsolete to me now after I bought a new Falcon unit with HDMI.

How does getting a "new" unit with the EXACT SAME design flaw make your old unit obsolete??? :confused: :confused: :confused:

Old 360 did not have HDMI, was a space heater while running.
New unit is a Falcon, has HDMI, runs cooler.
Old unit would require a 50% of initial cost to repair but it still would not have HDMI.

It may not be obsolete if you do not have a 1080P HDMI TV.

I do and anything less is obsolete, and thats until the next progressive phase of picture quality.

New unit is a Falcon, has HDMI, runs cooler.

Non-issue for reliability. Non-issue for PQ. Perhaps, depending upon many, many factors.

Well I guess it was bound to happen, my nearly launch build (december 15, 2005) console that had been 'bulletproof' with almost 3000 hours of play time gave up. It started around the same time Live was having issues, not loading games, freezing, but today, GHIII kept on freezing up, and the after a couple of resets, RRoD. Sad part was the drive was/is much quieter than my other Xbox (June 2006 build) which was sent back June 2007, returned 'fixed' and then dies again October 2007, at which point the Xbox I got back was a newer one with November 2007 build date.

I really am not that upset because I have 2 Xbox's, but it seems that will have to be the trend in order to have 'worry free continuous gaming'.

As a 360 fan boy, I need to say Microsoft needs to get this under control. My 2ND 360 RRod Saturday, no warning just powered up and the red eye of death. I have a original xbox (launch) still working with no problem. It's good that they fix them for free, but this shouldn't still be happening. I wouldn't by a PS3 off of principle, but MS is making it pretty tempting.

Well I guess it was bound to happen, my nearly launch build (december 15, 2005) console that had been 'bulletproof' with almost 3000 hours of play time gave up. It started around the same time Live was having issues, not loading games, freezing, but today, GHIII kept on freezing up, and the after a couple of resets, RRoD. Sad part was the drive was/is much quieter than my other Xbox (June 2006 build) which was sent back June 2007, returned 'fixed' and then dies again October 2007, at which point the Xbox I got back was a newer one with November 2007 build date.

I really am not that upset because I have 2 Xbox's, but it seems that will have to be the trend in order to have 'worry free continuous gaming'.
RRoD started couple weeks ago for me with GHIII also (have the $99 one w/ wireless guitar). Was spotty for a while & now dead. Played over 1 yr w/o problems. Can specific games initiate the eventual death? Maybe the wireless guitar?

Awaiting coffin BTW.

Wow, I only got about 3 months of gaming with my Elite 360 before COD4 started giving me the freezing lines of gameplay and then a day later, the red lights.

I should've heeded the warning signs: 360 noise was louder than usual and the freezing of that game. Oh well, now comes the waiting game!

The good news is that repairs time are down. They received my XBOX last Monday and they shipped it today.

A question to all those who got the RRoD and got a replacement console. What happened to all your XBLA games? I have about 10 games on my HDD and I heard that they are linked to the console and if you get a new console, the XBLA games won't play off the HDD.

Is this true? And if so, how do I recover all my XBLA games?

Your XBLA games will still be on your HDD, but you'll have to be signed into Live with the account that purchased them in order to play them. This sucks for me, because my daughter used to enjoy playing them under her own profile (with no Live access). Now she has to be signed on with my gamertag. There are many things on Live that I don't want her to see or hear.

Just as an update in my situation, I got my 'box back today after two failed attempts at delivery last Friday and Monday (stupid Microsoft...should allow me to leave a signature...*grumble*). Twelve business day total turnaround (taking into consideration the holidays) from me calling the center to the first delivery attempt.

I actually got my original 360 back, so I'm guessing it was one of the routine RROD repairs and didn't require a refurb to be sent. I'm not knocking it, as I don't have to worry about recovering my gamertag and re-downloading all the DRM content I have...what a hassle that has to be.

Anyway, I played for a couple of hours tonight, making it easily past the part in HL Ep.1 that was freezing up consistently. Other than the fact that LIVE is apparently still jacked up, things seem somewhat back to normal...but I got my fingers crossed.

Ugh, saw my first RRoD last night on my pre-order launch console that hasn't given me any problems before. Power up/power down didn't do anything. I did the "hold the 'connect' button while powering up" trick after consulting google, and the console came to life for the night. I played through the Band of Bugs demo without incident, but I guess the end is coming soon, right?

Is my console still under warranty? I guess I could search... :)

I'm worried about all the Rock Band stuff I've paid for if I get a new console. I was thinking about getting the 120 GB drive, but maybe I'll just get an Elite instead that comes with one. If I just bail on my 2 year old console and get the elite, can I re-download and use my DLC without incident, or will I be slaved to only playing while connected to live? TIA.

You are covered for three years for the RROD. You are not covered for any other issues outside of the RROD. My own 360 failed for non-RROD reasons and wouldn't have been covered had I not purchased the Microsoft extended warranty (I also had a launch unit). Regarding the new hard drive, I think you can re-download the content you've already purchased, but I'm not 100% certain.

did'nt get the 3 rings just the 1 ring last night....Error 74.

dang....called Microsoft to send me a coffin. I have to pay 99 bucks for the repair since my 1 year warranty was up....BUT they are giving me a 12 month subscription to Live since mine is up in a couple of weeks and a new 1 year warrenty on the one i get back....so 50 bucks for repair basically...i hope the turn around is'nt long...don't know how long i'll last before withdraw sets in;)

i just picked up a PS3 last week basically for Blu-Ray but it looks like i might have to buy a game or 2 for it now.

Just got the red rings yesterday and called MS, a coffin is on the way. Not really too exited about waiting 2-3 weeks to get back a refurbished system. My question is if I still have the receipt will Wal-Mart let me exchange it for a new one even though it is 2 years old?

Update ...
Launch day unit purchased 11-22-05 Died 12-31-07. Error code was 0021
Sent in the repair request online 12-31-07,
Received the coffin 1-8-08.
Picked up by UPS 1-9-08
Received my original 360 "Repaired" (not a refurb) today on 1-17-08 along with a free month of live
I think thats pretty darn good
Over a 2 year old console repaired for free that took only 17 days from the moment of the RROD till it was back on the shelf working.

My update. Sent my console to Texas on 1/3. Got back a different one with an OLDER build date today, 1/17. My kids are playing DDR that they got for Christmas. I can't re-activate my gamer profile. I go through the steps of entering my tag and my email and password, then it tells me Live is having problems. Is everyone having problems with Live?

Nevermind, Live is working for me now.

A question to all those who got the RRoD and got a replacement console. What happened to all your XBLA games? I have about 10 games on my HDD and I heard that they are linked to the console and if you get a new console, the XBLA games won't play off the HDD.

Is this true? And if so, how do I recover all my XBLA games?

I called Microsoft and they bumped to some XBLA people who said they'd look into it. They have some system or another that allows them to unlock the games, or something along those lines, but is heavily backlogged.

Three weeks later, they left me a voice mail to call them with an incident number. So I call back, gave them the incident number, and after 1 hour on hold, they said words to the following effect: "Well, we can't tell you anything, except that if you call back, to tell you that they'll call you back." Great. I explained that they just called and left me that incident number. same answer.

That was three weeks ago.

My guess is, they don't care, since they already got your money, so it's not a high priority.

Ugh, saw my first RRoD last night on my pre-order launch console that hasn't given me any problems before. Power up/power down didn't do anything. I did the "hold the 'connect' button while powering up" trick after consulting google, and the console came to life for the night. I played through the Band of Bugs demo without incident, but I guess the end is coming soon, right?

Sho' 'Nuff, dead meat every time now with the ole base-4:0102 code.

I sure wish CostCo carried the Elite. I'd like to upgrade to the bigger drive.

After a couple of days of freezing I finally got the 3 red lights on my 6 month old Elite. I barely even use it!!! Anyway I called MS and the nice Indian woman had me turn the machine off, unplug it, dance in three circles and plug it back in. Well, it booted and started the game so she refused to do an RMA since "The unit is working now". I explained that it would only fail shortly but she said "But the unit is working so you can contact us if you have any further issues".

They should know that once the RROD shows up that's it...even if you do get another 15 minutes out if the machine.

Well I didn't. It froze after 10 and then RROD again.

Now they are sending a box to ship the unit back.

What I want to know is, is there any chance I'll get a new Falcon unit in return? What about the new heatsink at least? Mine doesn't seem to have it.

Sigh.

Is there any chance anyone reads threads anymore? What about 2-3 pages at least? I don't seem to see it.

woohooo freakin red rings. my dec 05 unit lasted 2 years, thought i was gonna avoid the problem, anyways with the refurb unit, does my warranty start over for 3 years for the refurb or only 90 days?

Some of you are f---ing lucky. My sh!t RROD on 12/21/2007. I called MS the same day and didn't get my coffin until 1/3/2008. I shipped it the same day. They received it 1/7/2008 (tracking number). I called 1/20/2008 and they said that they just received it 1/17/2008 WTFFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It took them 10 days to f---ing get it. This is the worst f---ing service ever.... I called yesterday and the only status they can give me is they recieved it 1/17/2008. I hate MS and my 360. I am hoping to sell this bad boy when I get it back and to make room for my PS3...

mine died 1/17/07...got the coffin 1/22/07, sent back the next day and i checked last night and it's halfway to Texas all ready....no bad so far.

Mines RRod on 1/12/08 called MS 1/13/08, box received 1/17/08, returned to MS on 1/18/08. Per UPS should be in Texas by they 25th (today). Hopefully I'll have a functioning unit by end of next week. Seems the ups portion is what takes the longest, MS should overnight or at least 3 day ship for the inconvenience (both ways).

I had a weird scenario happen. I was going to play NHL'08 with my son and it froze 3 times (rebooted the machine in between). Then I got the dreaded RROD. Left it alone for a few hours and tried it again with a different game (COD4). Same thing - froze when I started playing but no RROD. So I called M$. I described the problem and they immediately say its a goner and send out a coffin. The next night is our weekly boys COD4 game so I figured I'd try it and see if I could at least play for a bit before it conked out. The bloody thing went for 4 hours with no probs. I played for another 2 hours on single player the next night.

About a week after I posted this my Box finally gave up the ghost. So I sent it back to M$. To my shock and amazement, it showed up back at my door exactly 6 days later!! I think there is a service center just outside of Toronto, but it was still lightning fast by any standards.

As most of you know, MS has been extremely close-lipped on the reasons for the 360's reliability issues. 8bitjoystick.com recently published an informative interview with an anonymous MS insider that is likely to be as close as we will get to the truth.

http://www.8bitjoystick.com/archives/jake_inside_source_reveal_the_truth_about_xbox_360_red_ring_ of_death_failures.php

Q: So what do you think the real failure rate of the Xbox 360 is? Some have estimated it as high as 30%. I got my Xbox in early 2007 and so far so good but what do you think the chance is that it's going to die on me one day.


It's around 30%, and all will probably fail early. This quarter they are expecting 1 M failures, most of those Xenons. Some of those are repeat failures. Life expectancy is all over the map because the design has very little margin for most of the important parameters. That means it's not a fault tolerant design. So a good unit may last a couple of years, while a bad unit can fail in hours. I have a launch unit and have not had a single problem with it. And it's used a lot. But I don't know anyone else with a 360 that hasn't broken, except you now. There's no way to tell when yours might die. But the cooler you can keep it, the longer it will probably last. So stand it up, keep it in free air, etc. :Note : Xenon was the code name for the first Xbox 360 mother board.


Q: Of all five videogame systems on the market now (PS3, PSP, PS2, DS, Wii and 360)only the Xbox 360 has had such major hardware failure problems. Microsoft being the only company based in the US making a videogame system. What part of Microsoft's way of doing things do you think caused this situation to happen.

First, MS has under resourced that product unit in all engineering areas since the very beginning. Especially in engineering support functions like test, quality, manufacturing, and supplier management. There just weren't enough people to do the job that needed to be done. The leadership in many of those areas was also lopsided in essential skills and experience. But I hear they are really trying to staff up now based on what has happened, and how cheap staff is compared to a couple of billion in cost of quality.

Second, MS was so focused on beating Sony this cycle that the 360 was rushed to market when all indications were that it had serious flaws. The design qual testing was insufficient and incomplete when the product was released to production. The manufacturing test equipment had major gaps in test coverage and wasn't reliable or repeatable. Manufacturing processes at eall levels of suppliers were immature and not in control. Initial end to end yields were in the mid 30%. Low yields always indicate serious design and manufacturing defects. Management chose to continue to ship anyways, and keep the lines running while trying to solve problems and bring the yields up. Whenever something failed and there was a question about whether the test result was false, they would remove that test, retest and ship, or see if the unit would boot a game and run briefly and then ship. 360 is too complex of a machine to get away with that.

In the end I think it was fear of failure, ambition to beat Sony, and the arrogance that they could figure anything out, that led to the decision to keep shipping. That management team had made some pretty bad decisions in the past and had never had to pay a proportional consequence. I'm sure they thought that somehow they would figure it out and everything would end up ok. Plus, they tend to make big decisions like that in terms of dollars. They would rationalize that if the first few million boxes had a high failure rate, a few 10's of millions of dollars would cover it. And contrasting that cost with a big lead on Sony, would pay it in a heartbeat. They weren't even thinking about Nintendo.

Compare that to Sony, who delayed their launch, even though they were behind, when their box wasn't ready.

Q: In your opinion what do you think the main cause of the Red Ring of Death failures have been?

RROD is caused by anything that fails in the "digital backbone" on the mother board. Also known as a core digital error. CPU, GPU, memory, etc. Bad parts, incompatible parts (timing problems) bad manufacturing process (like solder joints), misapplied heat sinks or thermal interface material, missing parts, broken parts, parts of the wrong value, missed test coverage. Any one or more, on any chip, or many other discrete components, would cause this. And many of the failures were obviously infant mortality, where they work when they leave the factory and fail early in use. The main design flaw was the excessive heat on the GPU warping the mother board around it. This would stress the solder joints on the GPU and any bad joints would then fail in early life.

There are also other significantly high failure rates in other areas, like the DVD.

Q: Does some games more than others cause hardware failure. Gears of War and Dead Rising were thought to be system killers when they came out.

Of course. Infant mortality, which is a weakened mechanical "thing" like a solder joint with a void in it, are exercised to failure by cyclic stress. The number of cycles and the amplitude of temperature change from low to high determine how quickly it will fail. Certain games will consume more bandwidth on the GPU, which has the most substandard thermal solution on the mother board, making it a lot hotter, warping the mobo and flexing the solder joints. Weak joints fail quickly. The better the game, the more often it will be played, again accelerating failures.

Q: Let's go over some of the rumored reasons RROD. Could you tell how close each theory is?

Over heating CPU/GPU due to the lead free solder?

They don't overheat due to PB Free. They over heat due to too much power dissipated in too small of an area, w/o a sufficient thermal management design to take the heat away from the junction of the transistors on the chips, the packages themselves, and the mobo. And the over heating is on the GPU. When the CPU heatsink is applied right, it does not over heat.

Defective parts due to overseas subcontractors?

Some defective parts, like BGAs where the solder balls are not of sufficient and uniform size, so they don't solder down evenly, or the substrate is warped, causing some joints to have insufficient solder. Bad chips from marginal or under tested wafers. Others are deficient processes, like misaligning the solder paste to the circuit board, or same on the parts, or not having the thermal profile right in the reflow oven during soldering. Manufacturers new to PB free tend to err on the low temp side thinking they are saving the parts reliability wise from a large thermal load. What they are really doing is not reflowing the PB free solder enough to make a good joint. PB free solder is non eutectic, which means the different metals in the solder alloy melt at different temperatures, unlike leaded solder where everything melts at the same temperature. If you under heat it, it won't bond well to the board or parts, won't form a good joint, leaving voids and other defects in the joints that lead to early failure under normal circumstances. But when you add the extraordinary heat and mother board warpage that goes with it, well you get a catastrophic failure rate like we've all seen on 360.

Defective or insufficient heat sinks?

A heat sink like the one they eventually put on the GPU would have helped a lot, since it stops the GPU heat from warping the mobo and breaking the solder joints. The CPU heatsink was fine. I've heard the memory was running hot too, and contributing to these failures. Not sure if they were heated by contact with the GPU heatsink, proximity on the mother board, or both. But with the new GPU heatsink the failure rate probably would have still been double digits overall. Way too high still.

Corrupt BIOS or OS bricking the system?

Maybe. But haven't heard of this outside of the periodic dash updates bricking boxes.

Is humidity a factor? Are Xbox 360s in Florida just as likely as a 360 in Seattle?

Humidity is a co-factor with temperature for many failure modes. The hotter the room ambient conditions, the more likely a 360 is to fail, all else being equal. Same for humidity.

Is keeping the 360 horizontal more safe than keeping it vertical?

I don't think so. Vertical exposes more surface area and volume to heat exchange with cooler room air. And I think opens more vent holes. Just don't let it fall over.

System wide design problems due to a production schedule that shipped a full year before the competition's systems?

Yes. It just wasn't mature enough. Too many design defects, lack of design margins, immature test processes and equipment, insufficient PB free manufacturing expertise at partner manufacturers who made the mother board.

Or is there no one specific problem but a bunch of possible problem for each console?

Yes. See above.

Q: How have IBM and ATI dealt with the Xbox 360 problems?

Sorry, I don't know. But they were contracted to design and help launch the chips. After that, MS owned the design and tooling. So they didn't have to worry about it. Although I'm sure they were pulled in.

Q: Just what is up with the RROD "Towel Trick" fix?

My best guess is that it somewhat reflows the solder joints on the GPU while it's under a high compressive load from the heatsink clip, causing any open solder joints to make contact again. I don't think it's going to fully reflow them because 1) PB free solder melts above 300 degrees C, and if that happened the GPU would be pulled flat to the mother board with a big puddle of solder under it shorting everything out.

Q: One of the problems that I have run into my 360 is that the disk tray will fail to eject and not let me swap disks. Have any ideas?

LOL. Reboot and try it again! Sorry, couldn't help myself. You didn't give me enough info. How often does it happen? Notice any conditions that tend to make it happen more repeatably (after long play, unit standing up, right after a previous eject, etc.)? Can you recover and get the tray open at some other time after it fails? What did you have to do? It might be as simple as a bad connection somewhere in the circuit for the eject button. Usually I'd recommend percussive maintenance (hit it) but that would probably damage the disc and could damage the console. So don't. Maybe the disc is jammed in there. Does the tray try to come out and then stop? Maybe there is a misalignment with the box case. See if you can find a place where it might be catching. If you can't find the problem, bring it with you when we meet and I'll look at it.

Q: What do you think of the Karla Starr of the Seattle Weekly's article about video game hardware testing?

I read that when it came out. It's pretty accurate. I've been to VMC a few times where that testing is done. It's kinda brute force last stage game qual testing, after a lot of other testing has been done at the developer and MS. Funny, but you can only automate so much. And then you need to have people touch it and use it to find the unlikely bugs.

Q: How much more reliable are the current generation of Xbox 360 than the previous designs? Original Xenon, Zypher and Falcon.

I've heard that the failure rates for the current design is sub 10%. Much much better, but still too high imoh. And those designs haven't seen much life yet, so no one knows if that failure rate will hold.

Q: Do you think that the "Falcon" Xbox 360 design is the final Xbox 360 hardware iteration or will they come out with a redesigned Xbox 360?

They will come out with new hardware at least once a year until they retire this design. That's the console financial model. Keep the features and functionality the same, reduce cost and price, and improve quality if needed. The 360 roadmap always called for SI die shrink and integration, since that's where most of the cost is. Right now they are working to get the GPU and CPU on the same BGA package for the next mobo. Could lower cost, heat, number of heat sinks, mother board size (maybe squeeze the PS inside too), etc. Too bad that they screwed up and forgot to retain the JTAG IEEE 1149 test functionality, at least what little they had. Now it will be almost impossible for them to tell if that chip is bad if the unit won't boot in the factory. So they will have to trouble shoot by replacing the most expensive part in the system blindly. They keep repeating bad decisions, and everyone is afraid to push issues considered to be bad news.

Q: Do you think that third party fans like the Nyko Intercooler will make things worse? Are they snake oil? I personally have plastic Tiki figures around my Xbox to ward off any evil spirits and so far they have done better in protecting than some of the fan coolers that you see at Gamestop.

I don't know, I'd have to test them. But I'll give you some thoughts. In order for those fans to do any good, they would have to increase the volume of air coming through the box w/o adding heat. I think those things are powered through the USB hub, which is specced at 5 volts, 1/2 an amp. So very little heat added. But the piggybacked fan would have to run at a higher volume that the box fan in order to unload it and make it spin faster, pulling more air over the heatsinks. Would be an easy test to run. Just tape a dry cleaning bag to the back with and w/o the extra fan and time how long to fill. Or if you have access to one, an anemometer is a test instrument that measures airflow and would give a more accurate reading.
Note : the Nyko Intercoolers draws power from the 360 power-source and it looks like surefire way to potentially make things worse.

Q: How many times does an Xbox 360 unit have to be sent in and repaired before they will replace it with a completely new unit?

That's not how it works. You send in a broken box, you get back a working box (hopefully). So there is a rotating stock of the original units that get repaired and returned to service. Plus, they keep finding these cashes of launch units here and there and using them too. Didn't you hear during the holidays that bundles were found with units made in 06? Those were pulled back from the retail channel last spring when the new heatsink was done, and had the new heatsink placed on them and then put into the shipping flow like any other box.

Back to the rotating inventory of launch units. You risk getting one of those back until the last one is out of the system. I imagine the next big outrage will be when some of the folks who waited till Falcon to buy a console for reliability reasons, and has to send it in for service, gets a Xenon back! Even when all of the Xenons are gone, you will likely get a newer gen repaired one back rather than new. Unless the fail rate gets so low there are none available. I'm holding my breath...

Q: How could the wireless racing wheel have overheating problems with the AC adapter? I can't think of any external video game accessory that had similar problems.

I don't know. I heard that one was an over reaction, and no test could have found it. That happens sometimes. A supplier changes something, or it happens so rarely that it can't be seen in any reasonable or even possible sample size. Like Xbox 1's catching on fire. That happened 25 times out of 25 million units. How can you test for that unless you know exactly what causes it? If you know, you design it out.

Q: The original Xbox had a recall of some of the power supply cords. Did that affect the design of the 360?

Safety became a paramount concern. We realized that we could meet all regulations and still have problems. So extra effort was made to have zero safety defects. See the comment about 25 fires from this, above.

Q: There has seemed to be an executive exodus from the top of the Xbox project. Seamus Blackley, Peter Moore, James Allard. Do you think that there something that has been causing the "fathers of Xbox" to want to move on?

Seamus left a long time ago, and I think there was some conflict so that it wasn't entirely voluntary. J Allard left to go do Zune (along with Greg Gibson), and is a big part of the team who owns the strategic vision of MS E&D under Robbie Bach. Peter was a surprise. He sure left in a hurry, and not the way top people usually go, which is usually with a longer notice. And right after the warranty extension announcement. I don't know if they are related, but it looks like they could be in some way. I noticed you didn't mention Ed Fries, who left in 04. I heard he landed at Sony, but can't verify. But I don't see the senior team wanting to move or moving. Very few people who leave do so voluntarily. Note: I did forget to mention Ed Fries.

Q: Do you see much of a long term future for Microsoft?s Entertainment & Devices Division? I saw that they just got a new campus and troubled projects rarely get new expensive buildings. Do you see that division ever turning a profit? So what do you think their overall hardware strategy is? Do you think that they will still be selling videogame systems and music players in five years?

Xbox's mission statement is to preserve the Windows monopoly and extend it into the living room, as a media extender for a Media Center PC, along with a host of other MS and other company's hardware devices that fit into a digital entertainment lifestyle. MS has the bucks to keep losing money on Xbox for a long time, maybe forever. They've already lost around 6 billion dollars. How are they ever going to make that back on Xbox? They can't. Maybe they don't think they have to. That amount might be just 1 or 2 quarters of profit for an integrated hw/sw portfolio, with windows, PC Hardware, Xbox, Zune, TV, Movies, ads, etc., all providing some revenue stream to MS. You should check out their jobs site sometime. You can learn a lot about what they are doing. And their patent applications. They have a team working on making PCs now. That voice activated thing they did for Ford? Where do you think you will see that next? MS devices and sw is my guess.

That new H&E campus says that MS is getting into consumer electronics in a big way, and you can bet they are working to refine a strategy of integrating their offerings into a digital lifestyle universe, with most everything covered that we could want to stay productive, connected and entertained. Not piece meal, like some companies seem to be approaching electronics. Look at Apple. They are doing great, keep rolling out innovative stuff, but what's their vision and strategy to implement? What's their roadmap and timeline? How does it all go together, work together? I can't tell from what they say or do. But I can see what MS is trying to do. They are just getting started I think. So yes, they will still be doing this in 5 years. But they really need to mature their business and change some blood in there. Hire some key people who have experience running large hardware companies who can put the right organization, process and infrastructure in place. If they don't, they may continue to have quality and operational issues that will really dampen their progress. And with all of the external challenges in consumer markets, even MS can't afford to be it's own enemy for too much longer.

Q: Do you think that there is going to be a third generation Xbox?

I understand they are working on it right now. But don't look for it any time soon. It's years away. News flash: Sony and Nintendo are working on their next boxes in some way too.

Q: So do you play games?

Just a little. I lack the hardware abstraction layer in my brain that allows me to translate body motion into controller commands. If I am playing a racing game and I want to turn right I tend to turn the controller to the right. Just like the Wii. Funny thing. In the middle of '03 I tried to convince our director of "innovation" that we needed to do motion control, simple and intuitive controllers, and focus on family oriented and just plain fun content. Well before the Wii came out. He completely disregarded it. Oh well. I bet they wish they had that decision back as a do over.

It has not been obvious to everyone that this insider is genuine. There is some critical commentary here (http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46465) at the Beyond3d forum.

"Is keeping the 360 horizontal more safe than keeping it vertical?

I don't think so. Vertical exposes more surface area and volume to heat exchange with cooler room air. And I think opens more vent holes. Just don't let it fall over."

What an idiot. I call bullsh!t. :confused:

My Elite RRoD. I have the ESP from Best Buy but all they have in stock is the arcade version. What do you guys think is my best option:

1. Return the elite for store credit and then buy the arcade version and a new hard drive.

2. Wait for BB to receive a new shipment even though they currently have no idea when they will be coming in.

3. Call Microsoft and handle the exchange through them.

Thanks
Mike

"Is keeping the 360 horizontal more safe than keeping it vertical?

I don't think so. Vertical exposes more surface area and volume to heat exchange with cooler room air. And I think opens more vent holes. Just don't let it fall over."

What an idiot. I call bullsh!t. :confused:

Idiot? How so? His reasoning on this is unassailable.

If you keep your 360 horizontal only the top is exposed to the air. Keep it vertical and you lose one end but now both sides are exposed, so you've almost doubled the amount of surface area available for cooling.

Seems pretty obvious to me.

It has not been obvious to everyone that this insider is genuine. There is some critical commentary here (http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=46465) at the Beyond3d forum.

I've read it. Imo no one has yet presented any credible evidence to prove this guy isn't who he purports to be.

My repaired console lasted 3 days. I was able to coax it back to life a couple times by removing the power cord but nothing. another 3 weeks without a console. DAMN

Idiot? How so? His reasoning on this is unassailable.

If you keep your 360 horizontal only the top is exposed to the air. Keep it vertical and you lose one end but now both sides are exposed, so you've almost doubled the amount of surface area available for cooling.

Seems pretty obvious to me.

"Is keeping the 360 horizontal more safe than keeping it vertical?"

"I don't think so. Vertical exposes more surface area and volume to heat exchange with cooler room air. And I think opens more vent holes. Just don't let it fall over."

This is an absolute no-brainer. Is it going to tip over while sitting horizontal? In which position is it more likely to get severely bumped and groove a disc? That takes care of the "more safe" part of the question. :confused:

As for heat, open up a 360 and actually look at it and it becomes instantly clear that you get far more air flow putting the unit horizontal. Does that mean better airflow? Not necessarily. If you place the unit vertically, you'll get slightly more flow around the DVD drive, but only at the expense of covering the far more numerous ventilation holes at the bottom of the unit. Ideally, the way to get the best overall airflow would be to place the unit horizontal without having the hard drive on at all. M$, in their never-ending mentality of the "add-on" rip-off, should have made the hard drive an internal device somehow. :(

This is an absolute no-brainer. Is it going to tip over while sitting horizontal? In which position is it more likely to get severely bumped and groove a disc? That takes care of the "more safe" part of the question. :confused:

As for heat, open up a 360 and actually look at it and it becomes instantly clear that you get far more air flow putting the unit horizontal. Does that mean better airflow? Not necessarily. If you place the unit vertically, you'll get slightly more flow around the DVD drive, but only at the expense of covering the far more numerous ventilation holes at the bottom of the unit. Ideally, the way to get the best overall airflow would be to place the unit horizontal without having the hard drive on at all. M$, in their never-ending mentality of the "add-on" rip-off, should have made the hard drive an internal device somehow. :(

1. I think you're taking him out of context. Remember, the question was asked in relation to overheating as a contributing factor to producing RROD issues. Clearly he feels that heating issues pose a greater threat than any possibility of the console tipping over (which, btw, can be minimized by simply using a little care and common sense).

2. I believe his point was that the issue isn't so much one of one of airflow (provided there is a certain minimal amount) as it is about the amount of surface area available for heat dissipation. More area = more efficient heat dispersal = decreased chance of RROD.

1. I think you're taking him out of context. Remember, the question was asked in relation to overheating as a contributing factor to producing RROD issues. Clearly he feels that heating issues pose a greater threat than any possibility of the console tipping over (which, btw, can be minimized by simply using a little care and common sense).

2. I believe his point was that the issue isn't so much one of one of airflow (provided there is a certain minimal amount) as it is about the amount of surface area available for heat dissipation. More area = more efficient heat dispersal = decreased chance of RROD.

What good is more so-called "surface area" if it's covered with plastic housing? :confused:

What good is more so-called "surface area" if it's covered with plastic housing? :confused:

The surface area isn't "covered in plastic", it is the plastic. In effect the surface area exposed to cooler room air is acting as an additional heat sink.

The surface area isn't "covered in plastic", it is the plastic. In effect the surface area exposed to cooler room air is acting as an additional heat sink.

:eek: Amazing! Boy, I learn something new everyday. Now that I've surround that plastic shell with my entire house, I've created an XBox 360 with an astronomical sum of "surface area" for cooling! Wow. I can probably just remove the fans altogether. Thanks for the heads up! :D

I wonder why those gaming units in the plastic casings at GameStop and other stores are always overheating, what with those enclosures acting as giant heat sinks? :confused:

:eek: Amazing! Boy, I learn something new everyday. Now that I've surround that plastic shell with my entire house, I've created an XBox 360 with an astronomical sum of "surface area" for cooling! Wow. I can probably just remove the fans altogether. Thanks for the heads up! :D

I wonder why those gaming units in the plastic casings at GameStop and other stores are always overheating, what with those enclosures acting as giant heat sinks? :confused:

Wow.

As was clearly stated in the initial post, the key is exposing more surface area to cooler room air. The units in the kiosks don't meet that criteria. They are in an enclosed space. Any heat radiated from the housing is trapped and acts as an insulator, which in turn results in higher temperatures inside the 360's housing. It's pretty much the same scenario produced by the "towel trick", and it's the reason for why RROD issues are so common with display units.

Airflow isn't the reason for the 360's problems. The fundamental problem with the basic 360 design is that the heat sinks installed in the launch units weren't up to the task. The newer heat sinks are more efficient, but the basic design problem remains. Given that, the only real option for reducing temps is to increase the amount of surface area exposed to cool air. That's because heat dispersal takes place in direct proportion to surface area per mass.

Example: take a block of ice and place in a bowl of water. It will take a long time to melt. Now do the same thing again, only this time chop to ice into small pieces. You'll find it melts much, much faster. The mass of the ice in both instances is the same, but by chopping it into smaller pieces you've increased the surface area per mass, thus increasing the efficiency of the heat exchange.

Wow.
spider696969 is trying to tell you that most plastic doesn't conduct heat very well. You don't see many heatsinks made out of plastic.

spider696969 is trying to tell you that most plastic doesn't conduct heat very well. You don't see many heatsinks made out of plastic.

With all due respect, he wasn't saying anything of the sort. If he was he wouldn't have asked "what good is more so-called "surface area" if it's covered with plastic housing??"

Wow.

As was clearly stated in the initial post, the key is exposing more surface area to cooler room air. The units in the kiosks don't meet that criteria. They are in an enclosed space. Any heat radiated from the housing is trapped and acts as an insulator, which in turn results in higher temperatures inside the 360's housing. It's pretty much the same scenario produced by the "towel trick", and it's the reason for why RROD issues are so common with display units.

Airflow isn't the reason for the 360's problems. The fundamental problem with the basic 360 design is that the heat sinks installed in the launch units weren't up to the task. The newer heat sinks are more efficient, but the basic design problem remains. Given that, the only real option for reducing temps is to increase the amount of surface area exposed to cool air. That's because heat dispersal takes place in direct proportion to surface area per mass.

Example: take a block of ice and place in a bowl of water. It will take a long time to melt. Now do the same thing again, only this time chop to ice into small pieces. You'll find it melts much, much faster. The mass of the ice in both instances is the same, but by chopping it into smaller pieces you've increased the surface area per mass, thus increasing the efficiency of the heat exchange.

Incredible! You really should go work with M$ with all your knowledge of the system and your lines of deductive reasoning. I'm really looking forward to telling all those workers in the gaming stores that all they have to do is drill a few holes in the plastic kiosks and they will have the coolest-running 360 units on Earth! :cool:

There's a plastics store down the road from me, so I'm going there today and create something like this:

____________________________________________________________
|........................................................... ...................................|
|........................................................... ...................................|
|........................................................... ...................................|
|........................................................... ...................................|
|........................................................... ...................................|
|........................................................... ...................................|
|........................................................... ...................................|
|........................................................... ...................................|
|........................................................... ...................................|
|........................................................... ...................................|
|.........................................| XBOX |..........................................|
|........................................................... ...................................|
|___________________________________________________________ |

Sure, it's going to take up almost a whole wall, but imagine the surface area! :) Good thing I've got the room for it. I think I'll go with a clear acrylic. I'll just toss the original plastic housing, heatsinks, and fans in the trash when it's completed, since I won't be needing them anymore with all the surface area I've made for heat dissipation.

I've also got a RROD unit on my desk right now. Silly me :o, I was going to do the usual X-Clamp repair, but it's good to know that all I have to do is slap a new heatsink on the chip and I'm good to go. :cool:

Please keep the information coming! :)

Incredible! You really should go work with M$ with all your knowledge of the system and your lines of deductive reasoning. I'm really looking forward to telling all those workers in the gaming stores that all they have to do is drill a few holes in the plastic kiosks and they will have the coolest-running 360 units on Earth! :cool:

There's a plastics store down the road from me, so I'm going there today and create something like this:

____________________________________________________________
|........................................................... ...................................|
|........................................................... ...................................|
|........................................................... ...................................|
|........................................................... ...................................|
|........................................................... ...................................|
|........................................................... ...................................|
|........................................................... ...................................|
|........................................................... ...................................|
|........................................................... ...................................|
|........................................................... ...................................|
|.........................................| XBOX |..........................................|
|........................................................... ...................................|
|___________________________________________________________ |

Sure, it's going to take up almost a whole wall, but imagine the surface area! :) Good thing I've got the room for it. I think I'll go with a clear acrylic. I'll just toss the original plastic housing, heatsinks, and fans in the trash when it's completed, since I won't be needing them anymore with all the surface area I've made for heat dissipation.

I've also got a RROD unit on my desk right now. Silly me :o, I was going to do the usual X-Clamp repair, but it's good to know that all I have to do is slap a new heatsink on the chip and I'm good to go. :cool:

Please keep the information coming! :)

I honestly can't tell if you genuinely don't understand how heat dispersal works, or if you're just goofing around. At this point I no longer care.

Since it's obvious that you don't believe a word I'm saying, I would submit that you should consider the possibility that the "MS insider" demonstrated considerable knowledge of the design process and inner workings of the 360 in that interview. Simply dismissing out of hand his opinion on this subject is probably not a good idea.

I honestly can't tell if you genuinely don't understand how heat dispersal works, or if you're just goofing around. At this point I no longer care.

Since it's obvious that you don't believe a word I'm saying, I would submit that you should consider the possibility that the "MS insider" demonstrated considerable knowledge of the design process and inner workings of the 360 in that interview. Simply dismissing out of hand his opinion on this subject is probably not a good idea.

If you'd read through even just a portion of this thread (which, unfortunately, nobody seems to do anymore :() you'd know that I've posted probably 100+ times here. I've done the RROD repair on over 150 units so far, so it's not as though it's some foreign object to me. Claiming that the heatsink is the main problem simply shows ignorance to the Nth degree. Anyone that has ever read anything other than M$ propaganda or forum misinformation, or has actually worked on a unit knows this without a trace of doubt.

The whole discussion on heat dispersal in relation to the 360 was hilarious beyond belief. Thanks for the best laugh I've had in quite some time! :D

I have to agree with spyder on all of this. There is NO way that placing a 360 vertical is going to improve the cooling of the unit. While it MIGHT (and this is a stretch) help with cooling of the RAM chips that are on the bottom (or in vertical arrangement...the left side) of the unit, you still have the issue with the fact that MS is trying to use the mobo's metal casing as the cooling surface, which just doesn't work. Placing the console vertically does nothing more than eliminate one of the biggest intake areas on the 360. In case you haven't noticed, the fans in the rear...they are exhaust fans. Without proper intake, those fans are virtually useless. And spyder is right...plastic doesn't do much in the world of heat dispersion.

From my experiences with fixing 360s (I haven't done quite as many as spyder), the best way to keep a system from going 3-light is to improve the cooling. Here's what I do to all of the consoles that I get to increase the cooling. I haven't had a single one overheat since the mods were completed.


Rewire exhaust fans to 12V (5V variable speed stock)
Add shrouding on GPU heatsink to direct airflow
Create partition between GPU and CPU heatsinks to exhaust fans inside stock fan shroud
Remove perforated material blocking airflow of exhaust fans (both mobo tray as well as plastic casing)
Add additional stock dual-fans to intake side of case and wire to separate 12V source and switch. This allows you to continue fan cooling once console has been shut down.


***EDIT 1/29/07***

Here's three pics of my current console that shows the modifications that I've made to the outside. My console shouldn't have any issues with cooling now! You will notice that I am using an 80mm fan while the units that I mod use an additional stock dual-fan unit. Either option works just about the same. Sorry for the bad pics, I had to take them with my phone.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/bugman72/Xbox/01-29-08_0941.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/bugman72/Xbox/01-29-08_0942.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v66/bugman72/Xbox/01-29-08_0943.jpg

As you can see, you really need to do a lot in order to get a rock-solid unit that runs cool. You could probably get by without a couple of things, but this is my tried-and-true method.

In case you haven't seen the inside of a 360 and wonder about all of this, here's some pics. The reason for the overheating issue should be obvious once a bit of studying is done.

Picture 1

http://www.freewebs.com/badcyborg/inside%20xbox360.jpg

This is the system with the plastic casing removed. You will notice the metal motherboard "pan" that the system is setting in. The large heatsink is the CPU heatsink. The white shroud is for hot air exiting via the exhaust fans. Pay careful attention to the piece of metal residing under the DVD drive.

Picture 2

http://www.freewebs.com/badcyborg/insidex360.jpg

Closer view of the metal under the DVD drive, which just happens to be the GPU heatsink plastered right against the drive. Can you start to see why the GPU has a tendency to overheat?

Picture 3

http://www.freewebs.com/badcyborg/Xbox360cooling.jpg

Here is a view of both heatsinks with the DVD drive removed. Please inform me as to how setting the unit vertically is going to help cool this problematic piece enough to maintain cooling stability. Especially when you consider that the bottom of the motherboard is STILL surrounded by the metal mobo pan.

If you look at the first and third pictures, the area to the right is what would effectively be the bottom if placed vertically. That area is the only good area the 360 has to breathe, especially when you clip on the external hard drive, thus blocking about 90% of the area you see on the left side.

Oh, and if anyone is interested in what unit to purchase that SHOULD be more stable, here's how. As you may or may not know, MS just recently started using 65nm technology in their GPU chips, known as the Falcon chips. What's this mean to you and I? a 65nm processor uses is more efficient, thus using less power. Less power equals less heat. See where we're going here? The easiest way to tell at the store which unit you are about to buy is the following. Check the back of the box. There should be a big barcode with writing on it. Look for the following:

http://loot-ninja.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/falcon.jpg

If you get one that has the "175W" rating on it, you have the Falcon chip. If it says "203W", you have the original GPU chip. Of course, you can't guarantee that your console won't fall prey to the 3-light (especially if you stand it vertically :D), but you'll have a lot better shot at having a stable unit.

My Xbox will finally be arriving on Feb 1st. It has been dead for a month now. It better be my unit considering how long it took. I think I will take a half day so that I can make sure I am home for delivery.

My 3rd 360 just red ringed while playing skate about 20 minutes ago. Only had the thing on for about 5 minutes. When I get my 4th back, I'm selling it. If I don't just get a Wii instead (already have a PS3), I should just look for the 175W and that's all that matters right? Is it on the box?

The picture that I posted is the white UPC label on the outside of the box.

This is a follow-up concerning my second experience with XBox 360 RROD repair. Basically sent in my original 360 (build date 11/06) and received an older 360 in return (build date 02/06) "in order to expedite" per MS speak. This older 360 was louder and the DVD drive slower than my original. So, I complained to BBB. I got a call back from someone at Microsoft that told me that they sent me the next Xbox in the repair line to replace my original and since the one they sent me is working (slowly and loudly I pointed out) there was nothing they could do. I told BBB I was not satisfied.

My first written reply from Tarek Giraldo, Xbox Customer Support stated: "All of our consoles regardless of the exterior manufacturing date are outfitted with upgraded standards." "Our records indicate that you have received your console and that it is working to your expectations".

I wrote back: No, it is not working to my expectations and what does "outfitted with upgraded standards" mean.

Second response from Tarek Giraldo, "your console is indeed outfitted with the upgraded service standards" (see how the wording has changed) "and we apologize for the miscommunication". "If your console is not working to your expectations the only option is to go with the standard repair. Call the number below so we can set up a repair order".

Ok, I call the number and give "Chad" the ticket number from Tarek he said: "That's a reference to a BBB complaint and I can't help you". So, back to the BBB.

So, Tarek via the BBB, wrote back "If you come across the issue of the answering agent giving you a response like that please have them transfer you to the proper agent of the ticket number".

I call MS again and speak with "Jeff" who tells me he is a Tier III support person. After much discussion he says that he will write up a ticket for an "exchange" not a "repair" for the older 360. I had him repeat this back to me that it was for an "exchange"

I get another coffin, write down the S/N of the "older" unit that I'm sending back, wait about two weeks, and,

Get the same "older" unit I had just sent in. Not an exchange...

So, after more than three weeks, I'm back to square one, the BBB and Microsoft.

Moral of the story. Don't expect that the 360 you receive from "repair" will be any better than the one you send in (minus the RRoD of course). Also, "Upgraded service standards" has nothing to do with the customer.

...Also, "Upgraded service standards" has nothing to do with the customer.

"Upgraded service standards" just means they have upgraded the propagandist bullsh!t capabilities of all their service people to the level of a standard politician or M$ spokesperson. :(

You have my sympathy for your pain.

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n172/spyderswebphotos/rrodcondolence_s300.jpg

Interesting posts... Here's my friend's story:

1. Original launch unit lasts almost one year. RROD - gets unit serviced under warranty
2. Second unit dies after six months - gets unit serviced under warranty. At the same time, his wife goes out and buys her own 360 so they can play COD2 online together.
3. His second replacement unit is dead-on-arrival. Sends back for service.
4. His third replacement unit dies after twenty minutes. Sends back for service. He's promised expedited (sp?) service since he's had so many problems.
5. The following week, his wife's 360 dies. He goes out to purchase a new falcon 360 elite unit. Sends his wife's 360 in for repair.
6. His wife's 360 arrives back from service two days before he receives his cardboard coffin for the unit he called on three weeks prior. He is promised a "new unit" since he's had so many problems and it's taken so long.
7. He gets his unit back this past Monday and and finds out that the build date is actually older than the unit he sent in. He's also told that he will get a free game because one was scratched when he had to move the console to get the serial number while on the phone. But, once the rep finds out it was COD4 which was scratched he tells him that there's nothing MS can do about it because it's not a Microsoft game.

He's out of town this week and won't get to test out the new Frankenstein unit until this weekend. Boy, I'm glad that I'm only on my second unit!

At the same time, his wife goes out and buys her own 360 so they can play COD2 online together.

The following week, his wife's 360 dies. He goes out to purchase a new falcon 360 elite unit.

How many times do you have to stick your hand in the fire. After mine died I was tempted to get another unit, but I just can't reward this anymore.

I took off of work early so that I wouldn't miss Fed-Ex.. Well guess what.... I did and they have no way of contacting the driver so that I can get my xbox. So now I have to go to the facility tonight in order to get my Xbox. Too bad it is like an hour drive from my house. Only other option is to wait for delivery on Monday which happens to be my wife's b-day and I sure she would love to wait at home on her b-day for the f---ing Fed-Ex guy.

they send it back via FedEx?
do'h, looks like my RRoD is gonna be more of a hassel than I thought.

maybe I'll see if they can send it to another address, where I know somebody can sign for it.

I use to love Fed-Ex but my UPS guy leaves it at my door when I write a note and request it....

I use to love Fed-Ex but my UPS guy leaves it at my door when I write a note and request it....

if it doesn't require a signature UPS leaves my stuff wherever they feel like it. most of the time packages are left on the porch but i have had them leave stuff on the ground by the mailbox, in the bed of my truck, even the back of a utility trailer. the last one was just luck that i saw it one day. don't know how long it had been there. they don't even ring the bell to see if anyones home most of the time.
FedEx always leaves a note saying that they tried to deliver something but no one was home an that they'll try again or i can pick it up. FedEx is a much more secure way of delivering IMO.

So secure that I called them and they said that sometimes the drivers don't take the trucks back to the warehouse they just drive it home and leave your package in the truck. Guess what you can't pick it up when it is at their house. Which is why I am on here and not playing my Xbox that I haven't played since before X-mas.... This is why I never got into console gaming and just played on my computer. Damn the 360 addiction.

So secure that I called them and they said that sometimes the drivers don't take the trucks back to the warehouse they just drive it home and leave your package in the truck. Guess what you can't pick it up when it is at their house. Which is why I am on here and not playing my Xbox that I haven't played since before X-mas.... This is why I never got into console gaming and just played on my computer. Damn the 360 addiction.

my neighbor (3 houses up) delivers for UPS. he brings his truck home almost every night, sometimes with packages still in it.

my neighbor (3 houses up) delivers for UPS. he brings his truck home almost every night, sometimes with packages still in it.:eek:

they send it back via FedEx?
do'h, looks like my RRoD is gonna be more of a hassel than I thought.

maybe I'll see if they can send it to another address, where I know somebody can sign for it.
Definitely more of a hassle for me too, since I'm a M-F 9-5er. Return shipped via Fedex Ground, so in my area, it's not at the local Fedex "hold for pickup" location" that has after hours pickup. Apparently, the Fedex Ground "warehouse" is only open M-F 9-4 or so, so I'm basically screwed. Can't believe I may have to waste a couple hours vacation time just to pickup my 360. I mean, I understand why they require signature, but damnit.

Definitely more of a hassle for me too, since I'm a M-F 9-5er. Return shipped via Fedex Ground, so in my area, it's not at the local Fedex "hold for pickup" location" that has after hours pickup. Apparently, the Fedex Ground "warehouse" is only open M-F 9-4 or so, so I'm basically screwed. Can't believe I may have to waste a couple hours vacation time just to pickup my 360. I mean, I understand why they require signature, but damnit.

Well I took off early Friday and still missed delivery. I figured I would go in for part of the day as I work 6:00am to 2:30pm. So I worked from 6:00am to 10:30 am and Fed-ex attempted to deliver at 10:00am. My wife left the house at 9:30am so I figured I couldn't miss him. Well I was wrong.

What I find odd is that you send your dead 360 via UPS, but get your Frankenstein back via Fed-Ex. :confused:

What I find odd is that you send your dead 360 via UPS, but get your Frankenstein back via Fed-Ex. :confused:

LOL!!!

I feel something... *cough* *cough* ...coming on. I don't think I should work and get others sick. *cough* *cough*

Sound convincing?

I feel something... *cough* *cough* ...coming on. I don't think I should work and get others sick. *cough* *cough*

Sound convincing?

Sorry, I've never had herpes. ;)

yay, I joined the rrod club. Unit was from last christmas, but only used for 6 months at most. Anyone have luck with Target for returns?

yay, I joined the rrod club. Unit was from last christmas, but only used for 6 months at most. Anyone have luck with Target for returns?

Why should Target eat your dead 360 rather than M$? :confused:

yay, I joined the rrod club. Unit was from last christmas, but only used for 6 months at most. Anyone have luck with Target for returns?

No luck here. I even had the useless Target extended warranty (what good is 3 years double coverage when you get 3 years from MS?). They were all set to do the exchange, even massacred the box of the new one to switch just the box and psu (all I brought in in the opriginal box). Then they said...oops! We didn't realize it was bought six months ago. Send it to MS. Even after I pleade, pointing out that they TORE the box apart from the new one (and that they couldn't sell it now anyway) and was told call the 800 number.

The 800 number connected me to Target. I explained what happened and was told "Send it to MS!" I clarified that I had the extended warranty from Target and was told "I understand, under our warranty we recommend you send it to MS. We will reimburse you for any charges". I thne tried to explain that there wouldn't be any charges since MS warranted the product for three years, and her response was "Ok, that sounds great. Then you won't be charged".

I asked if I could return the Target warranty and was told no, she did not think so.

No mroe shopping at Target for my family. Extended warranties are never very fun to deal with, but Target sold me one that is just plain useless!

No luck here. I even had the useless Target extended warranty (what good is 3 years double coverage when you get 3 years from MS?). They were all set to do the exchange, even massacred the box of the new one to switch just the box and psu (all I brought in in the opriginal box). Then they said...oops! We didn't realize it was bought six months ago. Send it to MS. Even after I pleade, pointing out that they TORE the box apart from the new one (and that they couldn't sell it now anyway) and was told call the 800 number.

The 800 number connected me to Target. I explained what happened and was told "Send it to MS!" I clarified that I had the extended warranty from Target and was told "I understand, under our warranty we recommend you send it to MS. We will reimburse you for any charges". I thne tried to explain that there wouldn't be any charges since MS warranted the product for three years, and her response was "Ok, that sounds great. Then you won't be charged".

I asked if I could return the Target warranty and was told no, she did not think so.

No mroe shopping at Target for my family. Extended warranties are never very fun to deal with, but Target sold me one that is just plain useless!

Wrong. Target sold you a warantee that covers everything but the free RROD repair. M$ charges a fortune for every other "fix" that they do. Since there are many other issues with the 360 than just ring of death, the Target warantee is still a good thing.

I was thinking target would just send back to microsoft for a credit. I'll see what mine says anyway.

Just recv'd my unit. Called 1/8/08, received coffin within 1 wk, returned filled coffin within a day via UPS, received first delivery notice from Fedex on 2/1/08. Called in sick to accept delivery today 2/4/08. So, 24 total days from initial call to 1st delivery attempt.

Here's how my screen looked with RRoD while trying to play GHIII (supposed to be all black with white text):

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/7953/img1213be3.jpg

Aw yes the checker board effect! Your gpu bit the dust.

Just recv'd my unit. Called 1/8/08, received coffin within 1 wk, returned filled coffin within a day via UPS, received first delivery notice from Fedex on 2/1/08. Called in sick to accept delivery today 2/4/08. So, 24 total days from initial call to 1st delivery attempt.

Here's how my screen looked with RRoD while trying to play GHIII (supposed to be all black with white text):

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/7953/img1213be3.jpg

they send it back via FedEx?
do'h, looks like my RRoD is gonna be more of a hassel than I thought.

maybe I'll see if they can send it to another address, where I know somebody can sign for it.
update on my above post...

I called last night, and got a guy who I understood (and understood me). after completion of the repair order, I asked if it could be sent to a different address. he said that the order was complete, and that I'd need to call back, cancel, and reissue a new repair order with the new address.

so before I call back, I check out the status at xbox.live.com. the order was processed. I call back and get a guy who had no idea what I was talking about and put me on hold constantly. finally after giving him the new address and getting a REF# I figured every thing was good to go.

I check xbox.live.com this morning, and there is no repair order status. how could the first guy get the status to change instantaneously, and the second guy's doesn't show up? so I figure, well that second guy screwed it up. so I filed a claim online.

man, what a pain!

Well, last night I joined the RROD club.

My console lasted 2 years and one month to-the-date (01-05-06)

Of course my 2 year replacement plan at BB was over a month ago.
That's what I get for not abusing the system (for a change) and taking it back just before the 2 year RP was over.

after 2 years I thought I was beyond getting a RROD, guess I was wrong.

No one is safe!!

No luck here. I even had the useless Target extended warranty (what good is 3 years double coverage when you get 3 years from MS?). They were all set to do the exchange, even massacred the box of the new one to switch just the box and psu (all I brought in in the opriginal box). Then they said...oops! We didn't realize it was bought six months ago. Send it to MS. Even after I pleade, pointing out that they TORE the box apart from the new one (and that they couldn't sell it now anyway) and was told call the 800 number.

The 800 number connected me to Target. I explained what happened and was told "Send it to MS!" I clarified that I had the extended warranty from Target and was told "I understand, under our warranty we recommend you send it to MS. We will reimburse you for any charges". I thne tried to explain that there wouldn't be any charges since MS warranted the product for three years, and her response was "Ok, that sounds great. Then you won't be charged".

I asked if I could return the Target warranty and was told no, she did not think so.

No mroe shopping at Target for my family. Extended warranties are never very fun to deal with, but Target sold me one that is just plain useless!

I would double check the warranty return thing... most warranties can be returned for a prorated amount minus anything they paid out (since they have paid nothing you should be able to get whatevers left of your warranty back).

BTW are you sure RROD is what's messing up your 360? I mean sure Target would have you send it back for RROD but what if it was somethign else wrong that MS won't fix for free? ;)

R.I.P 1/27/2007 to 02/07/2008 :(

My 360 froze for the first time during CoD4 last night. I just turned it off and went to bed as I had an early morning planned at the office.

Turned it on tonight after supper. Froze again, this time it didn't even make it to starting the game. Turned it off and back on again...RRoD'd. Error 0102

Called it into M$ at 9:02pm. Guy was decent and said he appreciated that I had disconnected and reconnected everything and even figured out the error code. He declared 'it had heart failure and was dead".

'coffin' on the way by Puro (I'm in Montreal). He said they'd ship out a replacement within 1 or 2 days from receiving the corps.

I'm seriously contemplating jumping ship to a PS3.
I've been wanting a BD player anyways.

When you start to see your console freeze up, you'd probably be wise and go ahead and make a call to Microsoft. What's happening is the RAM chips located on the bottom of the motherboard are starting to overheat. When they overheat, it causes the console to freeze. When the RAM chips heat up enough to cause freezing, you're at death's doorstep, as the GPU has already gotten too hot and is about give you the beautiful 3LROD.

DeeLux - if you were to abuse the system, how could you return it within the warranty period anyway? My understanding is that if you were to return (while it was still working correctly), they plug the system in at the service counter to see if anything is wrong with it. If not (as would have been your case), you get nothing. Am I missing something?

I believe that he was stating that he hadn't pushed (abused, in his terminology) the system to the point of overheating, thus causing the RRoD before his 2 year warranty had expired. Granted, he can still send in the defective unit to MS, but he will only get a "fixed" console and not the replacement that he would have gotten with BB's coverage. He wasn't stating that he was going to try and send a working unit back.

I believe that he was stating that he hadn't pushed (abused, in his terminology) the system to the point of overheating, thus causing the RRoD before his 2 year warranty had expired. Granted, he can still send in the defective unit to MS, but he will only get a "fixed" console and not the replacement that he would have gotten with BB's coverage. He wasn't stating that he was going to try and send a working unit back.

Bugman got it right.
Bricking the console myself before the BB replacement plan expired, therefore "Abusing the (replacement) system".

Wow just read some of the last few posts, I still have my original console from launch (am I the only one?)

It died in August 07 but I resurrected it with the Xclamp(also put artic silver paste under the heatsinks)If someone wants to know more just pm me

Its been running strong ever since

mine is still in the shop and i've been trying to get an update on when i might be getting it back.....does anyone know how to get a hold of a human when calling the 800 myxbox number????

all i can get is that stupid dude that asks you questions.....problem is i did'nt write down my xbox's ID Serial number and it keeps asking me for it....but like i said i don't have it....i do have a reference number though that they gave me when i called it in almost a month ago.


EDIT: never mind....wife just called and said the Fed Ex guy just came and dropped off a box to our house!!!!

my baby is home!!!!

my xbox is with ms right now... is there an increased chance of RRoD again after they repair it or should it be fine now??

my xbox is with ms right now... is there an increased chance of RRoD again after they repair it or should it be fine now??


It will be fine...for a while...maybe. It will die again. Some die within hours, some days, some months.

got the rrod last night for the second time. i requested my box last night as well via xbox.com (was somewhat convienient). in the meantime i was thinking about buying a new console and keeping this one in the bedroom as a spare.

i looked online and i notice almost every retailer is b/o'd on premiums and elites. anyone have any idea why this is? is there some newer model to be released?

i've read other threads and there is some speculation but anyone here have anymore insight?