The pdf for the transcoder states that the output can be adjusted for DC restored video at zero volts. That is exactly what the first gamma/black level enhancement circuit that I devised needs. It happens that I have a blank PCB for that circuit. I'll donate it to anyone that has one of these transcoders and would like to build the card. Parts will probably cost 30 or 40 bucks. First come first served. Please don't ask for the card if you aren't going to build it. I'll expect a full report! ;)

Scott

Hi Scott -

Looks like no SMD, right? Do you have a BOM for the other parts, and are you available for a little handholding after construction? I'm interested, but I've got to warn you, I have a tendency to move at a glacial pace on some of these projects. - Pat

There was some noise about Kim possibly including Gamma-Correct-O-Matic, unless I'm hallucinating (a distinct possibility.) If so, why not give it to Kim to 'speremint with?

Scott, jtnfoley,

I am indeed working on the Gamma enhanced transcoder and in order to do that I noticed I needed to make the zero blacklevel circuit more robust than the one now present. The schematic is finished and I just started on the layout. I would be nice though to have a board that I could connect to the existing one to check some more stuff out.


Kim

Pat, it's your call. I did say first come first served. Maybe we can work out a deal. Let me send it to Kim so he can play with it and then he could send it to you when he's done. It's up to you.

Scott

Please make sure that new transcoder has a 5BNC output. :)

Absolutely Scott - we all stand to benefit if you and Kim get something good going here. Kim - go for it , buddy. - Pat

Kim,

Pat had first call on the board but graciously gave up his claim. PM me an address and I'll mail the board to you. Hey, when you're done with it send it over to Pat.

When I first looked at the pdf of the transcoder I thought it looked familiar but didn't put two and two together. I thought somebody else was building them.

Anyhow, I'll help in any way that I can. The second gen board that I ended up building for my own use helps alot. The video from my sources is all over the place as far as gamma is concerned. A little boost down low really makes a big difference.

Scott

Pat, Scott,

Thanks for giving me this opportunity. I will built up the board and send it to Pat after I have experimented with it. I think I have an idea for a really nice enhancement to the circuit.


Kim

Will it be able to be retrofitted to the existing transcoder?

It will require a board swap, the case will stay the same.


Kim

It will require a board swap, the case will stay the same.


Kim

Cool. I am dying to get ahold of this! Will there be a discount upgrade for those willing to do the case swap themselves?

Are you going to offer two versions in the future, or will the current version be discontinued?

Thanks,
Dave

Garyfritz offered me his V1.0 board so I can use to test it and I have gladly accepted, thanks Gary.

An update on the low level gamma correction. I have found a system whereby I can control the amount of correction using one potmeter for all three channels. In order to keep the cost down I will use the existing 'blacklevel' control to do this so I don't have to redesign the case as well. This means that the blacklevel will not be at 0V DC anymore but that should not be a problem for anyone. I expect to have both versions available into the near future since the gamma enhancement takes up additional components and a larger PCB thereby increasing the cost.

I will make a board swap available at a friendly price for those that want to do it themselves. It is really simple though. Just remove four screws at the bottom, lift the top and the rear panel with print attached, remove the rear panel from the old print and mount it on the new print. Assemble in reverse order.


Kim

I see that you've been busy since we had lunch, Kim. Keep up the good work, buddy.

This is looking like it is working out to everyones advantage. Gary is sending the mate to the unstuffed Gen 1 bd to Kim for testing. That leaves the unstuffed PCB that I have available. Pat (Tubesguy) send me a PM with a mailing address and I'll send the blank card to you. Will include BOM, schematic, and technical assistance so you can get 'er running right.

Scott

Scott - you have PM. Thanks again - Pat

Kim It's great to hear this new transcoder/Gamma enhancement circuit will soon be available . Can you give us more info on how many inputs you are planning and what type of connectors will be available ? Will there be a passthru mode for both circuits ? :cool:

At this moment it is planned as a upgrade to the existing RTC2000, meaning in the same case with the same connectors and the Gamma works on the passthrough as well. I should also able to make an ISS version of this.

Much later I have a much more elaborate one planned with BNC's and all, but that will take some more work.

Any news on this RTC2000 with gamma? Looking at purchasing one of your transcoders Kim but would rather wait for a version with a little bit of gamma boost (which my Dish/Expresvu 6000 HDTV receiver really needs).

Kal

This kinda built up then died down real quick. Tubesguy, how you making out?

Scott

Funny you should mention this Kal. I'm meeting Kim today for lunch to pick up the first demo unit to run through this weekend. Then it's off to Dave's. Kim mentioned that he has a couple more being build currently, but I think he may be wanting to get our feedback first to make sure that there are no modifications needed.

I'll post my report on Monday. Stay tuned....

Hey Matt! Small world... you must be the local guy that Dave (Person99) was mentioning to me yesterday in email... Hence the reason I started searching and came back here. (full loop). :)

Let us know how it goes. If it works as expected my $$ is ready to spend.

kal

Yep. That would be me. Kim and I work pretty close to each other, so we get together for lunch from time to time.

I'll post my report on Monday. Stay tuned....

Err.....make that the following Monday (30th). I'm going to have to use Dave's power supply.

Any more news on the crescendo update? I'd love to add GC to mine.

I made some simulated plots to show what the gamma correction is going to do. There are two of them, the top trace shows the output with no gamma correction, the bottom plot shows maximum gamma correction. The user can set the amount of gamma anywhere in between these extremes by turning a single potmeter.

At design time I can change the maximum gamma curve as well, if people are interested I can give a few examples so we can make a choice.


Kim

I think I may be needing a a new Kimcoder or Kimcoder II.:)

We call him RTC2200

At design time I can change the maximum gamma curve as well, if people are interested I can give a few examples so we can make a choice.Why not give a large enough range to allow for a large gamma boost if people want it? Those that don't won't use as much of a boost. Or is it a question of potentiometer sensitivity/range? If you go with too large a range will it be hard to adjust? One option to get around that is a multi-turn pot instead of the usual pot with 270 degree turn. The pot doesn't have to be accessible from the outside either... I don't mind having to pop the cover to adjust if need be since it's a one time thing.

Kal

Great work Kim !

You can put me down for one but is there any chance I can get one with BNC connectors which might require a custom case ? Don't mind spending the extra money for a custom job . Absolutely love your current transcoder !

:D :D :D

Tom.W

This isn't sounding like an upgrade :(

Anyone wanna buy my kimcoder MK1....

Kal,

The downside of a more agressive maximum gamma is the following: when the gamma is increased the ouput amplitude increases. In the case above, it goes up from 700mVpp to 800mVpp, there is nothing I can do about that. The more agressive the gamma the more the increase in amplitude. Some people can handle 1Vpp easily, while others already have an issue with 800mVpp. If a wider gamma control is desired I will give buyers the choice to set their maximum output voltage at the time of ordering.

For existing owners of a RTC2000 I will implement a true upgrade where you can buy a new board (after returning the old one) with gamma for just the price difference. It is an easy swap that anyone can perform when you can handle a screw driver.

Interesting Kim. Guess my problem (and possibly other people's problem) is that I don't know how much gamma I want. Been running SD-DVD off of an HTPC for almost 6 years now and I use 2-3 notches of gamma boost in the ATI control panel (running overlay). No idea how that actually would look if graphed.

IMHO, if you need to choose, I think most people would aim fairly low in gamma boost. Anything too high looks like crap.

Kal

Tse,

If you are around, maybe you can give some input on a decent maximum gamma curve to shoot for.

Kim

Kal,

You can choose the gamma you want, that's not the problem. The problem I see is that it changes the output amplitude and that may be an issue for some people.


KIm

Old but interesting article on gamma and CRT's ...

http://scien.stanford.edu/jfsite/Papers/ImageRendering/Displays/Lyons_Farrell_1989.pdf

Kal,

You can choose the gamma you want, that's not the problem. The problem I see is that it changes the output amplitude and that may be an issue for some people.Sorry, yes, that's what I understood. You're just trying to figure out what sort of range to offer since if you offer too large of a range (ie: allowing a steeper curve) then the output amplitude may be problem. My suggestion was to not offer any sort of crazy high gamma boost if that causes problems. Gamma should be used sparingly but most people new to the concept will tend to use "more than less" at first.

You'll figure out a good curve, I'm sure. :)

Kal

We call him RTC2200

We call 'em kimcoders. :D

You can put me down for one but is there any chance I can get one with BNC connectors which might require a custom case ?

You guys crack me up. I'll tell you what. How about I get a kimcoder standard and one custom with 5 BNC. On the standard one, I'll use a very short VGA to 5 F BNC breakout. Then both will use a 25' run of belden 1694a with Canare connectors.

Well do a single blind test. 10 runs. No more than 6 of one (may be 5 and 5 or 4 and 6, you won't know). Each run, you wirte down whether you thought it was the VGA with short breakout or the BNC one.

I'll bet you any amount you want that you can't get it 100% correct.

Dave

For existing owners of a RTC2000 I will implement a true upgrade where you can buy a new board (after returning the old one) with gamma for just the price difference. It is an easy swap that anyone can perform when you can handle a screw driver.

Wow!
That is great, I honestly didn't expect there to be an upgrade path.

Umm how is it you Americans put it?


*ahem*


YOU ROCK!



yes that's it.

Tse,

If you are around, maybe you can give some input on a decent maximum gamma curve to shoot for.

Kim

What I can do is describe what I'm using in my set-up. Progressive output DVD ran through Samsung 360 STB. Output set for 1080i. DVD looks great and off air/satellite HD looks great, some satellite feed is still a little dark even with the shadow enhance. Must look terrible without the boost down low.

Resistor feeding the diode network = 2.4K

Resistor from network to minus input of opamp = 75 ohm

Resistor from minus input to ground = 510 ohms

Opamp feedback resistor = 360 ohms

Having a pot for adjustments is a bitter-sweet thing. Changing the gamma curve is good but the gain changes, too. If it is not too late my suggestion would be to use headers connected to the different resistors and use the little two position programming shunts to set different curves.

Scott

All,

I just send out the second set of test boards for the transcoder with gamma. I should get them back in about a week. I will keep you informed.


Kim

Thanks Kim!

Kal

Kal,

You can choose the gamma you want, that's not the problem. The problem I see is that it changes the output amplitude and that may be an issue for some people.


KIm
I tested different settings at on tse´s desing. When i changed R1 ( 2.4k) to smaller value(1.5k), to make more agressive gamma curve then output goes over 0.7vpp. if i remember correctly, then to get output back to 0.7vpp R2 was over 1k (1.2-1.5K)
So if you want to make adjustable gamma settings you must ajust those two values together, maybe set of resistors and jumpers to change?

Just my 2 cents but from what I was told from one the testers of Kim's first version of his new transcoder with gamma, the amount of gamma was more then adequate. If people feel they need more or want to play with the curve then they could do so themselves by changing a resistor or two (pretty easy) based on input from other users.

kal

The breakpoint in the gamma curve can be continuously changed between 0 IRE (no gamma) and 30 IRE (maximum gamma). At this time that control range seems to be more than enough. If it appears it has to be changed later that can easily be done.


Kim

That should be plenty.
Any idea at all on a release date?

When it works I can start production real soon.


Kim

I just finished putting one of the test boards together and I did some testing. So far it looks good, the blacklevel clamp seems to work as expected and it doesn't shift with changeing picture content.

I will keep you all informed on further measurements.


Kim

Are you going to post "upgrade" instructions here, or you website, or both ? GREAT idea, btw, I've seen your transcoder run with/without a Tse gamma board, and it definitely looks better WITH the Tse gamma board in the circuit.
Can't wait !

When I have the confirmation that it all works as intended and ordered the boards I will put the upgrade path on my website.

Kim

Can't wait!

I think I'll need to upgrade also. Just got my RTC 2200 that I got from you right before Thanksgiving setup. Output from DTV HR20-700 looks pretty good. Output from Playstation and XBox seems to have crush. Would this fix?

I think I'll need to upgrade also. Just got my RTC 2200 that I got from you right before Thanksgiving setup. Output from DTV HR20-700 looks pretty good. Output from Playstation and XBox seems to have crush. Would this fix?

If the crush is in the source--most likely no. If the crush is in your PJ--yes.

Dave

I guess to check to see if its source versus projector would be to throw up an internal test pattern? I'll have to check to see if my Marquee 8000 has this, but I think it does.

The only thing that confuses me then, would be why a gamma correction in the signal path BEFORE the projector wouldn't correct it either way....never mind, I think I just thought it out replying to this....so if the SOURCE crushes the black levels, there isn't a way to get them back. But if the SOURCE provides proper black levels, the projector is crushing them because it isn't seeing enough variance in the levels internally to differentiate. The gamma correction will "stretch" out the black levels to give them more "range" (sorry for my newbie wording) so the projector has more to work with. Is that sounds correct?

so if the SOURCE crushes the black levels, there isn't a way to get them back.

Well, it depends upon how it is crushing them, but yes. If it sends out a 2 IRE signal that is basically the same as a 1 IRE signal, there is no way to get it back.

But if the SOURCE provides proper black levels, the projector is crushing them because it isn't seeing enough variance in the levels internally to differentiate. The gamma correction will "stretch" out the black levels to give them more "range" (sorry for my newbie wording) so the projector has more to work with. Is that sounds correct?

You pretty much hit it on the head. With a CRT, the phosphor does not react enough such that you can have a pitch black 0 IRE and still have visible light at like 2 IRE. So, folks with CRTs decide to have a full fade to black and crush blacks, or have elevated absolute black (but still darker than digitals) with good shadow detail, or split the difference. These types of gamma circuits are sort of a "best of both worlds" approach.

Dave

I think that Dave hit the nail on the head. The crush that a CRT performs is a case of "smooth" crush in which the response is diminished from the ideal.

Depending on the engineering qualities of your source (Xbox in your case) when the crush is not smooth but anything below a certain level is just plain cut off than any amount of gamma won't do anything. In the end zero times something is still zero.


Kim

Well then, HOW IN THE HELL CAN I BE IN XBOX NIRVANA!!!??? :)

So, it sounds like I may be SOL unless the PROJECTOR is doing the crush. I'll try to check tonight. Hopefully that's the case. If so, Kim, when would I be able to get my hands ona gamma correcting box?

Thanks for you guys' help. I really appreciate your patience with a technical newbie.

Dave,

Do you think I need to make any more changes to the transcoder with gamma or is it ready for production? When I still want boards before Xmas I should order real soon.


Kim

So what do ya think Dave ?
Tom.W

I like it--alot. Let me play with just one more thing to make sure all is OK, but I think it is a winner.

I've been watching it for awhile now, and I needed to test something else, so took out the new one and put your old one back in so I would be back to a baseline. Man, I can't believe how much I got used to the gamma. With the original back and I just couldn't get the picture to where I had grown used to it. I'm at about 1/3 of the maximum gamma correction it supports and it is perfect. I kick my brightness down 2 or 3 clicks but loose no shadow detail. It is great. :D

Dave

So, l threw up the Marquee's internal black level test pattern and the two darkest bars appear as one unless I crank the brightness to 100. So based on what has been said here, the new gamma correcting box would help, correct?

So, l threw up the Marquee's internal black level test pattern and the two darkest bars appear as one unless I crank the brightness to 100. So based on what has been said here, the new gamma correcting box would help, correct?

Whoahh... what is your G2 & Drive set at for each color!?
To give you an idea, my Marquee have always been set according to the process detailed here:

http://www.etechvideo.com/techtip1.htm

Your 2nd to last dark bar should light up with brightness around 40-50 at a minimum assuming everything else is set up properly. I would get your greyscale set up properly before you even start to think about a Gamma mod. The gamma mod is available to give you the "icing on the cake". Not to fix any problems. You've gotta bake that cake before you even think about the icing! :p

VERY helpful. Thanks, here were my before settings:
R drive 27 G2 71
G drive 100 G2 69
B drive 51 G2 70

And after:
R drive 35 G2 78
G drive 90 G2 78
B drive 50 G2 77

Now, I still have to run contrast at 85 and brightness at 75, but that does give me XBox Nirvana! Are any of these settings too haywire? I know the G2 figures are a bit high, but the tubes are about 6 years old with around 2500 hours, I'd estimate.

Also, with that said, would the new gamma correctly RTC help even more?

VERY helpful. Thanks, here were my before settings:
R drive 27 G2 71
G drive 100 G2 69
B drive 51 G2 70

And after:
R drive 35 G2 78
G drive 90 G2 78
B drive 50 G2 77

Now, I still have to run contrast at 85 and brightness at 75, but that does give me XBox Nirvana! Are any of these settings too haywire? I know the G2 figures are a bit high, but the tubes are about 6 years old with around 2500 hours, I'd estimate.

Also, with that said, would the new gamma correctly RTC help even more?

What gain is your screen? G2 figures of (IMO) higher than 75 indicate a P14 voltage problem and your tubes have prematurely worn out a bit.
Still very useable as you're finding out... but I'm going to guess that you've lost about 25% of the life of the tube. :(

Check the bottom of that same webpage for a way to find out what your P14 value is. Here is an excerpt:

If you have a digital voltmeter, take the top gray covers off and try to measure the filament voltage across connector P14 (see PIC 1), it should not exceed 6.50 volts dc when the unit is powered up. P14 is on the mother board just below the cover for the blue neck board. Filament voltage above 6.50 for a few hundred hours will destroy the cathodes in the CRT electron guns. We can repair your LVPS filament power supply alone or as part of our Marquee Fan Noise Reduction mod; e.mail us for details.

To answer that last question, yes... the Gamma mod will hopefully make things much easier to set up and get both the deep blacks as well as great shadow detail. I don't know for sure of course (yet), but as soon as it's available I'll be adding it to my current box from Cresendo. :)

Btw, I had a projector with similar G2 values as yours and I was very happy with it. So don't get discouraged. But do start to keep an eye out for replacement tubes.

I figured they were a bit worn. I bought the PJ used from Hi-Rez 6 years ago and he said the tubes were "fairly new." I've already got the $4k of value out of it that I paid.

My bigger question is if its OK to run the contrast at 85 and the birghtness at 75, or is something screwy there? Also, my screen gain is only 1.3- I like a wide viewing angle.

My bigger question is if its OK to run the contrast at 85 and the birghtness at 75, or is something screwy there? Also, my screen gain is only 1.3- I like a wide viewing angle.

Thats difficult to say. When I had a Marquee with G2 like yours, I was able to use contrast at ~50 and brightness ~65. But your setup could be very different from mine. Another thing to consider is your source, whether you're getting a hot enough voltage to the projector. Do you have something like the Extron 202xi that allows you to adjust the voltage level?

The only thing I have in the path is an Audio Authority component video switcher and the RTC. However, even before when all I had was an RCA DTC100 feeding VGA direct to the PJ, I still needed the higher contrast and brightness. My cable run is 50 feet via an RGB cable broken out into 5 wire BNC.

Would an Extron 202 help? I can get a 202VTB on Ebay UNTESTED for around $20 or a 202 plus for about the same. Would either of these help you think? I'd be willing to gamble $20 for an improvement.

Or, do I just need the gamma correcting RTC? Would this also help me be able to dial back the contrast and brightness?

My understanding is the Cresenco transcoder eliminates the need for an Extron because it offers a hot output which is especially important for a run as long as 50'. But then you're still stuck with VGA output, so the Extron is pretty nice to have for it's 5BNC output. Just make sure you get the correct shaped VGA adaptor for the input though. It's not the standard 15 pin DSub on most Extrons.

Cool. Then it sounds like getting Kim to upgrade my RTC 2200 to the one with gamma adjustment will be the hot ticket with minimal out of pocket.

So, Kim, when they gonna be ready!?

Any more news about this ???

He'll have the new one out early in the new year.

The cases have been ordered and are supposed to arrive in the 1st week of January. As soon as I get back from the holidays I will order boards. I also just made some last minute changes to improve the performance a bit.

Kim

Kim,

To improve the performance of the transcoder or to improve the performance of the gamma add-on?

Please put me down for being in que for one of your first lot of gamma add-on's.

Thanks,
Eddie

Yeah, Me Too!!

How do we get in line for the new production run?

Same here for Me, I want one!!! I've sent you a couple of email concerning the new box so let me know if I need to sign up to get one. Any firm idea on pricing yet?

Andre

Put we down for an upgrade. Just bought the RTC from you last month.

Yeah, let me know as I gotta send the thing international, as much heads up as possible would be cool.

Please add me as someone who wants a kit... how much will these be??

... I have a PTV01B by ALLY that works great for my htpc - but I want MORE INPUT!!

:)

Kim - I pm'd you about this.... Phil

I have a few more of the transcoder + gamma cards out for testing, let me get some emore feedback and I will update the website as soon as I can.

First shipments for the complete transcoder with gamma is still second week of January.


Kim

I have an NEC 6pg extra and purchased a kimcoder about 5 months ago. I am trying to figure out if I need to upgrade to his new version. I am pretty proficient with the projector itself (setup and maintenance), but I must admit I am a little lost on the whole gamma issue.

Would anyone recommend this as a worthwhile upgrade for me? Any thoughts as to what I should look for to determine whether to order the new piece?

Thanks!

Is the gamma card going to be adjustable, or is it just going to provide a stationairy "bump" in the curve?

Is the gamma card going to be adjustable, or is it just going to provide a stationairy "bump" in the curve?

It's adjustable :D

:)

I have an NEC 6pg extra and purchased a kimcoder about 5 months ago. I am trying to figure out if I need to upgrade to his new version. I am pretty proficient with the projector itself (setup and maintenance), but I must admit I am a little lost on the whole gamma issue.

Would anyone recommend this as a worthwhile upgrade for me? Any thoughts as to what I should look for to determine whether to order the new piece?Many people (myself included) cannot live without some sort of gamma boost to get out of black faster (ie: pulling out low light details without affecting the black level).

All CRT projectors can really benefit from this. How much you like it yourself or how critical you find it to be is somewhat a matter of taste, though I don't know anyone that, given the option, would not use it. I use it on my HTPC for DVD playback and the difference (to me) is fantastic. I want Kim's transcoder/gamma boost for HDTV (and possibly other future sources like an HD-DVD player).

Kal

Kal,

Thanks for the response. Sounds like it would be hard to go wrong. I will see what the final upgrade price is but looks like I'll be on the list.

Davis

Is there a pre order list? I went to Kim's website. It does not mention anything about gamma or that he will be shipping the new units the 2nd week of January.

I think he said he'll update the website when he's satisfied with the final product. I'd just stay tuned to this thread.

M

Yep

Cowboy by Day, electronic genius by night.

Yiiiiiha,

I grab them electrons by the horns and wrestle them right to the ground plane and than wire wrap those pins with my lasso ..... Yessireee

Is anyone still making just the gamma unit by itself?

I don't really need a transcoder but the gamma adjustment would be very handy.

I have an NEC 6pg extra and purchased a kimcoder about 5 months ago. I am trying to figure out if I need to upgrade to his new version. I am pretty proficient with the projector itself (setup and maintenance), but I must admit I am a little lost on the whole gamma issue.

Would anyone recommend this as a worthwhile upgrade for me? Any thoughts as to what I should look for to determine whether to order the new piece?

Thanks!
Sure thing.

Grab a movie like Master and COmmander or Revenge of the Sith and take a look at scenes that have a lot of dark areas. If you find they are lacking details, and you feel like you want to increase the brightness/contrast then gamma correction is probably for you.

THe only problem is that this will only add gamma correction to your component sources, any RGB sources will still be uncorrected.

Grab a movie like Master and COmmander or Revenge of the Sith and take a look at scenes that have a lot of dark areas. If you find they are lacking details, and you feel like you want to increase the brightness/contrast then gamma correction is probably for you.If I can add something to Glen's post. Try this: Pause your movie in some of those scenes with dark areas and increase the brightness only (not contrast) such that you start to see some of the dark details that were previously lost in the shadows. Notice how you see more of those details with brightness bumped up a bit? Notice however how the true black level now doesn't look black but grey? That's what gamma will give you: Ability to increase brightness of close to black stuff, without affecting true black.

Kal

Yiiiiiha,

I grab them electrons by the horns and wrestle them right to the ground plane and than wire wrap those pins with my lasso ..... Yessireee

LOL ! :D :D :D

I was hoping that the new design would be able to apply gamma correction to the VGA passthrough signal as well as the transcoded signal. Is this not in the cards?

Rick

I was hoping that the new design would be able to apply gamma correction to the VGA passthrough signal as well as the transcoded signal. Is this not in the cards?

Rick

It does apply it to the VGA passthrough, so in effect, you CAN use it as just a standalone gamma box. In fact, I'm using it with signals going through both the component inputs and the VGA passthrough, both gamma corrected.

Dave

... and given that Kim's mentioned that the price won't be that much different from the earlier version of the transcoder (which was $159), to me it's actually cheap enough to be used as only a gamma boost box.

Buy a $160 gamma boost box and get an excellent quality transcoder thrown in for free! :)

(Hopefully Kim won't change his mind and double his prices after reading this). :)

Kal

No, the price is still unchanged and just slighty more than the non-gamma.

Perfect! Please put me on the list to buy one ASAP.

Thanks for doing this, Kim.

Rick Wilder

beun,

I think I should be on the list too. I submitted a payment on your website. Sent you an email, but just wanted to confirm that 2nd week in Jan is still the anticipated ship date.

Thanks.

Kim,

Please put me on the list too. Not for a new unit but for an upgraded board. I am hoping that you might offer some sort of advance exchange on the boards so that we are not down for too long. With the new XBOX for Christmas, the kids are going to kill me!

I would be willing to pay what ever amount you need (within reason!)that could be refundable or partially refundable upon receipt of the older boards.

Thanks,
Davis

David,

I saw thank you, you do want the gamma version right?


All others,

I will order boards in the next few days. I can built two a day so please be patient. When I get a divorce over this there are not going to be boards for a very long time.

Yep, gamma version is great. Thanks beun.

Kim (beun),

I'm confused - people are ordering gamma boards using your web site even though your site mentions you're currently sold out and it's the old version listed (?).

For those of us that want the new gamma version, should we be placing an order now or waiting until the site is updated with a new product page (RTC2000+gamma)? Confused...

Kal

Yes, those of us who currently own an RTC2000 would really, really like to be able to purchase the upgrade asap too...
You are still planning an upgrade program, aren't you ?

Kal,

People are just ordering and I am trying to keep up with what they really want, for me it is better to wait until I at least have the RTC2200 (with gamma) on the site so I can keep track.

none74,

The upgrade is still going to happen.

Kim,

Thanks for your patience. I'm looking forward to trying out the complete package, but am interested in how it works with a SA 8300 HD DVR from Comcast. I think that this source crushes the blacks and I'm not sure if your product will help with that. I like the pass-through option if I decide to go HDMI/DVI as my primary connection.

Bill: If a source device sends out a signal with clipped or crushed whites or blacks, nothing after the fact can recreate the lost information I'm afraid.

Kal

Kal, maybe Kim needs a webmaster to keep the site current. :)

No, the price is still unchanged and just slighty more than the non-gamma.

Add me to the list please for a RTC2200 + gamma.

Please post a link when available to purchase and I will pay you right away. Paypal I assume? :)

Thanks,
Brad

Kal, maybe Kim needs a webmaster to keep the site current. :)Nah, he's done a pretty good job by himself... a few odd navigation problems here and there but it gets the job done. No need for me. :)

Kal

Wow, I didn't realise that the gamma was applied to the VGA passthrough as well.

If I order another unit will I get one before an upgrade is available for the old unit :D

Probably

I ordered the boards today, they should arrive in about 10 days. The cases also arrived but all the panels were missing so I have to figure out what went wrong there.

I guess I will order a fresh one then.

I emailed you last week with questions on the RTC2000. Thanks for the prompt reply. :D

Do put me on the list as well for RTC2000 with gamma (it's called RTC2200 right?).

Please inform me when it's ready (and the link for the item) and I'll pay via paypal.


Edwin

Will do

At this moment it is planned as a upgrade to the existing RTC2000, meaning in the same case with the same connectors and the Gamma works on the passthrough as well. I should also able to make an ISS version of this.

Much later I have a much more elaborate one planned with BNC's and all, but that will take some more work.

Hi,

I noticed you mentioned you could build the RTC2200 as an ISS card. Is this in the works now?

Thanks,
Brad

It's my understanding that this should be available a month or two after he gets the STB version into production.

That's correct, the design of the ISS card is finished and when I can breathe again I will send it out for prototyping.


Kim

The remainder of the cases are supposed to ship this Wednesday and I just ordered a boat load of parts. There is one more part I need to order and I will have to call the distibutor for that one. I will keep you guys informed.


Kim

rope, 'em cowboy! Please don't drool yer terbaccy into the xcoder.

Ok, a week later, any more updates ??
Can't wait for gamma....

Final parts should arrive Monday the 22nd, I should be ready to start shipping shortly thereafter.

Please be patient, putting together the RTC2200 with gamma takes significantly longer than the regular reverse transcoder. Until my wife divorces me I can do no more than 2 per evening and some days not even that.


Kim

Final parts should arrive Monday the 22nd, I should be ready to start shipping shortly thereafter.

Please be patient, putting together the RTC2200 with gamma takes significantly longer than the regular reverse transcoder. Until my wife divorces me I can do no more than 2 per evening and some days not even that.


Kim

Ever try the silkscreen solderpaste and toaster oven technique?

Kim, you really should be able to spend more time with your wife... why don't you teach her to solder?

I have never tried the solder paste stuff, I will look into it. My wife actually does solder (she is technical as well), but only the through hole components so far. Usually she just thinks it is a waste of time though.


Kim

On of my RP providers also bundles a stainless steel solder mask screen... basically, squeegee on the solder paste thru the mask, place the components, and put the board in the toaster oven for a minute or three. Obviously, this is fine for resistors and caps, less fine for more active components.
You can also use the same method with hot air soldering.

Damn jt, I learn more about different manufacturing processes reading your posts then I do anywhere else.:)

You aught to see fountain soldering ;) Think wave soldering where the entire board does not have to get whetted by the molten solder.... Little ultrasonic transducers in the solder bath actually cause little fountains of solder that selectively splash the board.

Kim, I wish I could bring my fast turn prototype guys to bear on a project like this... I researched doing so for MP when he was pursuing the MP5.
FWIW, my companies' large-scale production operations can stuff something like 140,000,000 discreets per month, and the fast turn lines can push out a multilayer mixed signal board in no time at all. The website does not do justice to their capabilities, as their non-automotive stuff is pretty damn nifty (think Hughes Aerospace ground station hardware, among other things.) http://www.stoneridge.com/product/trans.aspx

--Edit... left unsaid above WRT MP5 is that my fast-turn guys can't be bothered for external stuff unless it's in 250-1000 finished boards at a whack. I can (and have) made some nifty boards in much smaller quantities but thats' for prototyping boards for $4M+/annum SRI sales.

Final parts should arrive Monday the 22nd, I should be ready to start shipping shortly thereafter.

Please be patient, putting together the RTC2200 with gamma takes significantly longer than the regular reverse transcoder. Until my wife divorces me I can do no more than 2 per evening and some days not even that.


Kim

I'll take it in kit form :)

I have used an external stuffing house before, for relatively few amount of boards (50 or so at a time). At the end they did use the solder paste and pick and place machine method. The downside is that they margin up the parts and they charge a rather significant amount for the stuffing as well as a percentage of the sales price.

So I decided to just go on and build them myself.

I'm not surprised... For the same reasons our ownership "encourages" our fast-turn shop to support prototyping operations for us and other divisions.
Oh well... It may be worth looking into the toaster oven ;)

All,

I am very pleased with the response I am getting from people that want to get their hands on the new RTC2200. Currently I am working on removing existing backorders so please wait another day or so before I have time to put the new version on the website.

The more time I have to spend on emails the less time I have to stuff boards.


Kim

If I can add something to Glen's post. Try this: Pause your movie in some of those scenes with dark areas and increase the brightness only (not contrast) such that you start to see some of the dark details that were previously lost in the shadows. Notice how you see more of those details with brightness bumped up a bit? Notice however how the true black level now doesn't look black but grey? That's what gamma will give you: Ability to increase brightness of close to black stuff, without affecting true black.

Kal
Hi... I'm on the edge of ordering and am not certain if I sould get the RTC2000 or the RTC2200...

I have a CRT on which I can adjust the brightness and contrast... however the Zenith DTV1080 STB that I am replacing with a direcTV H20 is too dark of an image and always requires a brightness (and I do contract too) adjustment.... The pic then looks somewhat faded or whitewashed (for lack of the correct technical term).

I'm guessing I may have the same symptoms with the H20..... Is the Gamma adjustment intended address this type of condition.

Thanks

Slash,

The gamma adjustment is intended to adress the washed out picture and the RTC2200 should help in getting a better picture.

All,

I have updated the website, both the RTC2200 with gamma and the board replacement are now present.


Kim

Kim, does the input section look the same on the 2200 as the 2000?

How do you adjust Gamma on the unit?

http://www.crescendo-systems.com/rev_transcoder.html

Kim, does the input section look the same on the 2200 as the 2000?

How do you adjust Gamma on the unit?

If you mean outward appearance, it is the same.

P1 (formerly black level) is now the gamma adjustment.

Dave

Is P1 a dial on the board?

Is P1 a dial on the board?

If you have his current tcoder? Tt is the adjustment labeled "BLK LVL" (i.e. brightness). There is no black level adjustment on the new one. Since virtually no one needed that, that space has been repurposed for the gamma adjustment so that the new board fits in the old case giving an easy (and lower cost) upgrade path.

If you don't have one, look at the picture of the case here:
http://www.crescendo-systems.com/rev_transcoder.html

Dave

If you have his current tcoder? Tt is the adjustment labeled "BLK LVL" (i.e. brightness). There is no black level adjustment on the new one. Since virtually no one needed that, that space has been repurposed for the gamma adjustment so that the new board fits in the old case giving an easy (and lower cost) upgrade path.

If you don't have one, look at the picture of the case here:
http://www.crescendo-systems.com/rev_transcoder.html

Dave


Cool, thanks.

easy to see in on the picture in the manual.

Mine is ordered!!!

Whoopee!!

:) :p :D

Kim,

Is shipping to anywhere in the world included in the price?

Just curious since it's not mentioned on the site and there doesn't seem to be any way for you to collect additional funds once the paypal transaction goes through...

How do you label customs slips? What value? You can PM me this answer if you like. :)

Kal

Kal,

The shipping is no secret, I charge everyone the same and international goes through USPS. It may take a week (or more) to reach Canada but it is not as expensive. I usually put a relatively low value on the customs slip and I think that no one had to pay tax yet.


Kim

Ooooh, can't wait to get my upgrade board, placed the order today as soon as I saw your post about it being ready.
Your shipping choice(USPS air parcel) is the best option for Canada. There is no brokerage charge, and often they neglect to collect the taxes(which I don't even really mind paying....).

Hey, hey - let's quit bugging Kim so he can get to making the iss vrsion of the RTC 2200!

Kim, take your wife out for drinkin' and dancin', grab a big fat dip and get it on*!

Thanks,

Marshall



*produce the iss version when you can...

Hey, hey - let's quit bugging Kim so he can get to making the iss vrsion of the RTC 2200!

Kim, take your wife out for drinkin' and dancin', grab a big fat dip and get it on*!

Thanks,

Marshall



*produce the iss version when you can...

I am going to try and hold out for the ISS version as well.

Any idea of a time frame for the ISS version Kim? What would it cost? And I don't see the RTC2200 on your site either?

I am going to try and hold out for the ISS version as well.

Any idea of a time frame for the ISS version Kim? What would it cost? And I don't see the RTC2200 on your site either?Go here: http://www.crescendo-systems.com/rev_transcoder.html

And scroll down....

ISS version? What's this ISS version?

Kal

What's this ISS version?

Kal

Kim's puting together an iss version. Pleae don't spoil the soup.

ISS version? What's this ISS version?

Kal

You know how vocal these ISS lovers are! They got moome to do that version as his first HDMI card, now they are pressuring Kim to do an ISS version of his tcoder!

I'm going to coral all the ISS owners here and turn them loose on fixing the government! :)

Dave

Sorry guys - didn't mean the stir things up... I still have no idea what "ISS" is but I'll figure it out somewhere else. (Googling the acronym isn't too useful so far: "Impotent Sea Snakes", "Institute Of Silly Strings", "Ion Scattering Spectrometry", "International Space Station", etc... ) :)

Kal

You know how vocal these ISS lovers are! They got moome to do that version as his first HDMI card, now they are pressuring Kim to do an ISS version of his tcoder!

I'm going to coral all the ISS owners here and turn them loose on fixing the government! :)

Dave

Motha o' Gawd count me in! (As we'd say in Boston.)

Kal, You must be puttin us on.... You've really never heard of ISS?
The "ISS" is shorthand for ISS6010 and ISS6020... NEC input switchers with damn handy multiple output options, high bandwidth, nifty power options on the backplane, etc.

Sorry guys - didn't mean the stir things up... I still have no idea what "ISS" is but I'll figure it out somewhere else. (Googling the acronym isn't too useful so far: "Impotent Sea Snakes", "Institute Of Silly Strings", "Ion Scattering Spectrometry", "International Space Station", etc... ) :)

Kal

Read my response to you on Curt's. Hopefully it answers all your questions.

Dave

I wouldn't really call the ISS's hi end though, at least not in my books. I thought Moome's ISS card came with a tcoder with gamma on board.

I wouldn't really call the ISS's hi end though, at least not in my books. I thought Moome's ISS card came with a tcoder with gamma on board.

gamma is optional.

Yep, Moome's version has inputs for hdmi and component -- you can also get the gamma option and it X-codes. Right now I don't need hdmi - component is fine. Plus reviewers have raved over kim's transcoders, so I'm going to get one of his. Kim's is also more reasonably priced, which is nice.

I wouldn't call the 60X0 high end, but it is a pretty elegant switching solution, and from what I've read it's transparent - adding no noise or bottlenecks. It's a nice piece of hardware. Dave hates them, but I think one fell on his cat and he's held a grudge ever since.

Dave hates them, but I think one fell on his cat and he's held a grudge ever since.

Hey, I don't hate them. :) I just don't think they are of much use. :) I also wonder why they could not have been smart like sony and make the input cards fit BOTH the switcher and the PJ--wow, what a crazy idea?!?!!?

At least they are not quite as ugly as the Sony switchers.

Dave

Tell that to a PG owner with one RGB input or a XG owner that actually uses one. Doug

Doug: One
Dave: Nought
Cat: dirt nap

True they have their uses with that many inputs. I had one but I will admit I never did hook it up. I just wasn't too crazy about it's design, too many edge connectors, too many poor video paths passing through too many low quality components for me to consider it HI End.
But that's just my opinion, but I am just too picky about stuff like that.

Well, I don't think anyone wants to add an unneeded step to their video path, and certainly not if it's sub-par as compared to the other components. But, which path and components do you see as low quality? This is the first I have ever heard of this and am curious as to your thoughts as to why it's not a good piece of equipment.

Thanks,

M

edit: sorry, "Let's go Lightning!"

Well it has been almost 2 years since I had the unit so I'd have to think about that some. I do have the service manual for it so I could start by pulling that out.

I just placed my order tonight. Based on the orders that you have already received. When would you estimate shipping the order?

Tell that to a PG owner with one RGB input or a XG owner that actually uses one. Doug


They have their uses, but most people don't have more than one RGB source. In fact, most (like me) have no RGB sources, just component and HDMI sources. So, there are more effective switchers to place before a transcoder than these, that is my only point.

Let's say you want to switch 3 component sources. Three Kim cards for an ISS or a higher bandwidth component switch with one transcoder? The later is cheaper and higher quality

I just think their are very few cases where it is the correct tool for the job.

Dave

Sorry guys - didn't mean the stir things up... I still have no idea what "ISS" is but I'll figure it out somewhere else. (Googling the acronym isn't too useful so far: "Impotent Sea Snakes", "Institute Of Silly Strings", "Ion Scattering Spectrometry", "International Space Station", etc... ) :)

Kal
Intelligent Switcher System....

(the 60 refers to the PG6000 series it was initially developed for, I'm guessing, and the "10" refers to the maximum number of inputs available)

People like them because they allow you to integrate ALL video into one supply solution with up to 10 inputs and one output or as many as 4 simultaneous outputs and 7 inputs.
It is also IR controllable, and even allows customization of each input's white balance...
If you have an NEC projector, you can integrate it even further so all functions are controlled by a single remote.
Its a very convenient solution to many issues...

If one has many component sources, it might be wiser to use the ISS to switch the component sources(it does that as if the component were RGsB signals) and then feed the component output to a single input transcoder....rather than buy a bunch or transcoding cards...but to each his own...

We used these switchers with multi SGI and highend workstations for quite a long time and at quite a few locations. For the higher resolutions we moved the inputs closer to the output card and the video sources farther away. These were 24-7 control rooms that also used RS232 touch panels for control. We didnt have controller or switcher problems at all. We did have interfaces fail but never the ISS. It was a proven work horse as far as Im concerned and in critical applications like medical, aerospace and military. It also allows control of RGB gain levels. You wont get that from a consumer item. Doug

Hi M,

I looked at the schematics again to refresh my memory as to what exactly the signal is traveling through. The signal passes thru serveral connectors BNC's, edge connectors, relays (not too uncommon there) then it gets to the output board where it really gets degraded by having to pass thru some low quality active devices, the final stage isn't really good for much more than SD with a .1 db spec of what looks to be 20Mhz and a slew rate spec that is alittle loose in its interpetation.
I just think if you're looking for good HD performance you won't get it from this unit.

Now if someone were to redo the output board then you'd have a real nicer switcher actually.
Thats just my 2 cents worth though, someone may think otherwise.

Walter,
If it helps your trust level I have ran 1200P from a Sony MSB moded DVD player through the switcher using the input closest to the output card (ran this over two years) and I tried it bypassing the switcher with the same results. This wasnt so using the card 1 slot but went clean in the last two.
This was using the ISS6010. Projector was a NEC XG1101LC.

This same client bought the Moome ISS HDMI input card and installed it a couple of weeks ago in the slot the 1200P was passing. He also noted a difference between the number 1 card slot and the last. His signal is clean with no noise.

Im also from the old school that doesnt like connectors to go through or anything in the signal path and why I tried it both ways just because. Doug

Also if someone wants to improve the output card that would be a good thing.

I think both ways has its application, Kims component passthrough or Moomes HDMI / component.

They have their uses, but most people don't have more than one RGB source. In fact, most (like me) have no RGB sources, just component and HDMI sources. So, there are more effective switchers to place before a transcoder than these, that is my only point.

Let's say you want to switch 3 component sources. Three Kim cards for an ISS or a higher bandwidth component switch with one transcoder? The later is cheaper and higher quality

I just think their are very few cases where it is the correct tool for the job.

Dave

Let's see:

Momitsu scaling DVD player via RGB
PC via RGB
XBOX1 via RGB
XBOX360/HD-DVD via RGB
Set top cable box via RGB
Free To Air HDTV set top box via - you guessed it - RGB
Standalone HD-DVD or bluray via component into transcoder into RGB.

Just can't thing of a damn thing to plug into the switcher.

runcoman and everyone else waiting on the transcoder, I am soldering myself into carpal tunnel syndrome but on Monday I will be ready to ship a whole bunch of them.


Kim

Some ideas that might make the soldering less of a chore.

http://www.stencilsunlimited.com/prototype_stencils.php

http://www.seattlerobotics.org/encoder/200006/oven_art.htm


Scott

As I said, few cases it makes sense. I didn't say it never made sense. I just said, given some of the things Walter has said about the quality and the sources MOST people have.

Standalone HD-DVD or bluray via component into transcoder into RGB.

FYI. this is a component source, not an RGB source.

Dave

Well I did say into a transcoder then into RGB so it then becomes an RGB source.

I just always get my back up when anyone asserts to know what *most* people have, it is pretty hard to ascertain from one's living room.

Thanks again to Kim for making an upgrade path available, I ordered my upgrade yesterday.

Looks like Kim has a real winner here . Kim was kind enough to send a unit for testing and all I can say is wow !!! The adjustable gamma really adds the icing on the cake . HD looks flawless at 1080i via the Toshiba XA1 and thanks Kim for the VERY generous upgrade path ! :D :D :D

Tom.W

Oh I forgot looks like orders are being taken now.... :D :D :D

http://www.crescendo-systems.com/rev_transcoder.html

Kim,
After this project, any chance you might tackle a HDMI to RGB transcoder? I know that Moone offers one. But from what I have read, his has some glitches.

Kim,
After this project, any chance you might tackle a HDMI to RGB transcoder? I know that Moone offers one. But from what I have read, his has some glitches.The $15K licensing fee (unless you happen to work for a company that has one and don't mind 'borrowing' it) usually stops the average enthusiast from developing their own DVI/HDMI->RGB converter.

Kal

I wish Moonjong would come out with a new converter . He's one hell of a designer as is Kim ! :cool:

I don't get it, why is the upgrade board so expensive? Is it an instant $95 rebate or do I have to wait for a refund check to come in the mail? How weird is a "rebate" anyways for something I assumed was mostly a hobby.

I think the rebate is like a core charge when you get a starter for your car and then take the old one back. Seems reasonable to me....

CZ, you find a $30 upgrade expensive?? IMHO, I think Kim is nuts to only charge this much. The amount of stuff he has to go through, problems,etc. $30 is a joke.

You pay $125 now, and are refunded $95 after Kim receives your return (older) board. Simple.

Yes, I'm sure it's partially a hobby for Kim. That's most likely why his prices are so low.

Kal

P.S. Ordered my RTC2200 a couple of days ago... :)

Eddie,

The word rebate is probably the wrong word but I could not come up with a better one, maybe refund is the right word.

The upgrade works as follows:

You buy the upgrade board and pay the list price, it is easy to install yourself and you ship the old board back. When I receive it you will receive the refund and effectively only pay the difference between the RTC2000 and the RTC2200.

Edit: I canged the word rebate with refund on the website

Kim

I don't get it, why is the upgrade board so expensive? Is it an instant $95 rebate or do I have to wait for a refund check to come in the mail? How weird is a "rebate" anyways for something I assumed was mostly a hobby.

Ok Eddie now I'm confused ... $30 for a new card with the added gamma circuit is expensive ? I was a bit surprised the cost was so low ! Not quite sure what you meant by the mostly a hobby thing .... :confused:

You pay $125 now, and are refunded $95 after Kim receives your return (older) board. Simple.

I must have missed where it mentioned anything about a "core" charge. That would have made better sense than "rebate".

"Refund" is also the wrong word to use. :)
Maybe try something like "$30 after a refundable $95 core charge".

And no, $30 is not expensive.

Personally, I think $30 for the upgrade is insane! Yes, I know this is a hobby for Kim, but I don't think he should lose money doing it!!!

Dave

I'm happy to report that I got an email from Kim this morning saying my new KimCoder+ shipped today and he supplied the FedEx tracking number.

Looks like another "HT Widow Weekend" for the wife!

Thanks for this refund option Kim - makes it very easy for us. (probably not so much for you tho!)

:)

Thanks!

Patrick,

I can easily do all that, would anyone also be interested in a fuming wife detector before she blows?


Kim

I hope that someone is going to start posting some picture of images with and without the Gamma correction, I really want to see what kind of detail it brings out without washing out the blacks.

I would love to get this but it does not fit into my chain, I am using a Moonjong scaler that needs to be fed HDMI, if I used this I would have to give up the 1080i to 1080p scaling. But I think Gamma correction would make the most significant difference of any upgrade.

I hope that someone is going to start posting some picture of images with and without the Gamma correction, I really want to see what kind of detail it brings out without washing out the blacks.

I'm not sure a digital camera has the dynamic range to show this. It is also


I would love to get this but it does not fit into my chain, I am using a Moonjong scaler that needs to be fed HDMI,

You can do it. You go Moonjong -> Kim's RGB in -> Kim's RGB out -> PJ

if I used this I would have to give up the 1080i to 1080p scaling.

I don't know what your budget looks like, but I've tested the moonjong, and while it is the best DVI->RGBHV I've tested, it won't take 1080p and its scaling is using the Fli2300 which is not designed to scale HD. It does not properly deinterlace film mode content like a Lumagen does. You might want to consider an upgrade to your scaling.

Dave

Originally Posted by scottatl:

I hope that someone is going to start posting some picture of images with and without the Gamma correction, I really want to see what kind of detail it brings out without washing out the blacks.

I'm not sure a digital camera has the dynamic range to show this.
Yeah, they should - as long as you expose for the darker areas and don't mind blowing (clipping) the lighter areas.

There are also advanced methods for doing this using the latest version of photoshop that involve combining multiple photos of varying exposure that create one 'super dynamic' picture with great contrast range.

Digital SLR cameras with a photographer who knows what they're doing need only apply...

(Haven't tried myself - it's on my todo list - Hell, I haven't even taken screenshots of my new [15 month old] projector!) :)

Kal

Digital SLR cameras with a photographer who knows what they're doing need only apply...

Then I won't try!

Dave

You can also set Moonjong's converter to output component and then feed the component signal to Kim's card but Kim's transcoder does apply gamma using RGBHV pass through . I believe the Crystalio used the FLI 2300 chip for scaling to 1080p .

I don't get it, why is the upgrade board so expensive? Is it an instant $95 rebate or do I have to wait for a refund check to come in the mail? How weird is a "rebate" anyways for something I assumed was mostly a hobby.

Well it is like a deposit, pending return of the original board. When Kim gets his board back, you get your 'deposit' back and you only end up paying $30 for the upgrade.

Otherwise Kim would never get his boards back and would lose a fortune. This way you have an incentive to send the original board back quickly, and Kim doesn't have to inconvenience you by asking for the board to be returned before shipping a replacement.

It works for everyone, Kim is covered for non returning boards, Kim gets the boards back more quickly and the customer doesn't have to be without his transcoder while waiting for the upgrade board.

Brilliant.

I think $30 was too cheap, but I aint complaining!

$30 is damn cheap and I have the feeling Kim is coming close to breaking even if not losing money after including his time . Hats off to Kim for a great transcoder at a great price and an even better transcoder with gamma control at an unbelievable price ! :cool: :cool: :cool:

CZEddie,

Are you ready to cry "UNCLE" yet ? or do we have to twist your arm around again?

:)

I may be speaking out of line but why not tip him a bit so you dont feel quilty about it? Doug

Sounds good to me Doug . I must say Kim has worked very hard on this project . And many thanks to tse !

You can do it. You go Moonjong -> Kim's RGB in -> Kim's RGB out -> PJ


Dave


Thanks Dave, I have the onboard MJ on my 9500 so I do not think I can do that. You are talking about an external box right? If I could create that chain i would put my order in today.

Thanks Dave, I have the onboard MJ on my 9500 so I do not think I can do that. You are talking about an external box right? If I could create that chain i would put my order in today.

Sorry, I was thinking external. You could see if he could sell you an external. The external is really just the Quee card plugged into a small output board and a power supply. The external is cleaner than the internal thanks to the well shielded linear power supply.

Dave

dominical2,
Yes he has a good product here, also TSEs. Not many products that do this well from the get go. Dave I can see why you like these so much. Doug

CZEddie,

Are you ready to cry "UNCLE" yet ? or do we have to twist your arm around again?

:)


UNCLE!!!! :)

All,

An update on the shipping process: I shipped most of the complete RTC2000/RTC2200's out today. The upgrade boards are going later in the week.

Kim

Is it possible to apply the gamma correction to the RGB pass-thru? The reason I ask is that my scaler (FaroudjaDVP5000) sends out 1080p via RGBHV and if possible I'm wondering if the gamma correction could be applied to the pass-thru?

Thanks!

Shaz

Shaz,

Yes, the gamma is also applied to the passthrough

Is it possible to apply the gamma correction to the RGB pass-thru? The reason I ask is that my scaler (FaroudjaDVP5000) sends out 1080p via RGBHV and if possible I'm wondering if the gamma correction could be applied to the pass-thru?

Thanks!

Shaz

Why can't anyone do a friggin' search? My god, the answer to your question was in this very thread. You think this thread went on for this long and no one else asked that? :rolleyes:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9334948#post9334948

Dave

OK Dave I did a a search and all that comes up is you giving people $hit for not searching :)


Bruce

FWIW, I just searched this thread for "passthrough" and I got 8 different hits.

The question of whether the gamma is applied to the passthrough has been answered several times.

In Dave's defense, I think we all have our days when we get tired of the same old same old questions. Other days, we manage to just "leave it alone".

My 2 cents

Why can't anyone do a friggin' search?Dave


I'm sorry, that's already been asked. Please RTFM, check the FAQ's and do a search.

OK guys. :)

GE is right. I know the AVS search engine sucks, but come on, can't we expect people to search in the same damn thread?!?!?

A single product thread with 208 posts--please, the first step before asking anything should be a simple thread search.

Dave

Dave you have a valid point, But I think Kim probably should state that Gamma is applied on pass through as well as component on his equipment description, might save some confusion . I will remind him when I order one :)



Bruce

OK guys. :)

GE is right. I know the AVS search engine sucks, but come on, can't we expect people to search in the same damn thread?!?!?

A single product thread with 208 posts--please, the first step before asking anything should be a simple thread search.

Dave


I bypass the AVS search completely whenever I must, and use a lottle google hackery... put "site:avsforum.com" (without the quotes) in your search string and the google hits will be limited to this otherwise useful site ;)

I bypass the AVS search completely whenever I must, and use a lottle google hackery... put "site:avsforum.com" (without the quotes) in your search string and the google hits will be limited to this otherwise useful site ;)

Foley, you're a godd@mn genius! I forgot about that google hack. The search button on AVS should just go to google with "site:avsforum.com" prepopulated!

Heck, we should put this in a thread and as a sticky in this forum!

Dave

I'll be sure to slip Dave a Midol when he comes over this weekend. ;)

Bruce,

Done

Hey Dave,

Not sure what your problem is. I tried searching through this site, got sweet FA. Now that I have the answer, it's ordered and already paid for. I don't think Kim will be complaining.

The search feature on this site is a bag of shite.

Regards,

Shaz


Why can't anyone do a friggin' search? My god, the answer to your question was in this very thread. You think this thread went on for this long and no one else asked that? :rolleyes:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9334948#post9334948

Dave

Ironically the starter in my truck went out last week. $35.00 core charge, BTW. Hey Eddie, good thing I didn't use the engine as an example.

Recieved my 2200 today. Can't wait to try it out!

Got mine yesterday as well! (Only one week from Texas to Ontario, Canada!).

Just in time for Valentine's day. Wife's gonna love it I'm sure! :)

Kal

OK. I'm getting ready to play with this new box. What are people using to view while they adjust gamma? A favorite movie? Avia, Video Essentials or another calibration disc? Which patterns?

I'm trying to run the Momitsu though the pass through. It's always sending a signal even when off. If I do the jumper to select component as primary, will that make the pass through the secondary signal and selected only when there is no signal through the component?

Will be great to hear the reviews ! :cool: :cool: :cool:

Tom

Bill,

Aren't those things annoying that always send a signal? Unfortunately using the jumper to set the input fixes the input, no more auto-switching.


Kim

So I guess it is time to fit a switch on the box...

Hmm, does the NEC switcher output a signal when an empty input slot is selected I wonder.

Then I could put this inline with the switcher output, and switch to a blank input when I wanted the component feed.

I suppose I could just switch off the switcher when I wanted component.

Bill,

Aren't those things annoying that always send a signal? Unfortunately using the jumper to set the input fixes the input, no more auto-switching.


Kim

That's what I thought. Looks like I need to go with component from the Momitsu.

Any tips on what video/patterns to use to set the gamma?

Bill: Gamma's the one thing you can't (and shouldn't) really set using test patterns. There's no "right amount" of gamma. You need to simply look at movie content and adjust to your taste.

Pick some movies with a lot of dark scenes and watch them with zero gamma. Then adjust gamma up and down a lot to get a feel for what it does. Then pick what you like. A little goes a long way though. Don't use too much. But again, it's personal taste.

Kal

Try Shrek disc 2 opening scene before hitting play in the menu. Bring up gamma for tree leaf detail but not bringing up brightness. Doug

Thanks guys. I'll let you know how it goes.

I can't wait for my upgrade board to get here....

Now I don't have to , the package just arrived!

First go round. Definitely see the difference. I used the scene from the Grammy's with John Legend and Corinne Rae Bailey. I really like what it does to the low end detail.

I jumped back to the INHD Tuneup and was able to resolve all 11 rings on the contrast pattern for the first time. That makes me feel better about my cable source.

I'm going to watch it for a while and then tweak it a little more. Looking for a good balance/compromise between the RTC2200, brightness and contrast settings.

Thanks Kim!

I dont know why but I keep finding myself wanting to call you 'dorkworm' Doug

Bill,
I hope you found the adjuster easier to do then I did. I need to update my watchmakers tool kit. :D after I find my glasses. Doug

I dont know why but I keep finding myself wanting to call you 'dorkworm' Doug

Pretty close to reality actually.

Bill,
I hope you found the adjuster easier to do then I did. I need to update my watchmakers tool kit. :D after I find my glasses. Doug

Since my components are in another room I had to train my wife to make the adjustments. "Five turns clockwise, OK, now 3 counterclockwise, Ok, now 10 clockwise." She was very patient with me.

Kim,
How many turns does it take to go from gama off to full?

Bill,
I hope you found the adjuster easier to do then I did. I need to update my watchmakers tool kit. :D after I find my glasses. Doug

I was thinking the same thing . An outboard pot on the gamma level would be a nice addition ...

Runcoman: It's a 25-turn pot.

Though I find that it doesn't do much for the first 8 or 9 turns or so.

My RTC2200's in the back room so it was a bit hard to adjust as well (peeking my head through a door, watching a paused scene from the ExpressVu 9200 HD-PVR).

I found the best compromise was about 10 turns clockwise (after having turned it counter-clockwise at least 25 times at first to zero it). Any higher and it starts to affect the overall contrast level too much and seems to 'flatten' the contrast ratio a bit.

What are the rest of you using (roughly) for gamma? How many turns?

Kal

All,

The transcoders are shipped with the gamma just turned off, turning clockwise will immediately increase it. Kal you are right, the first 8 or so turns actually doesn't do anything, I will see in a next batch if I can dial in the control range a bit better.


Kim

Kim, buddy you need to take a break and come to Mike's gathering on the 25th. Shoot Dave or myself an email.

I placed an order for an upgrade board some time last week. What is the ETA for the new stock? Thanks.

Greg,

I am finishing up the last orders this weekend and they will be shipped on Monday.


Kim

Great Kim, this is much appreciated. Thanks!

Hi Kim ,
It would be nice to just have a pot outside the case for gamma . Should be easy to add I hope . :)

The pot for the gamma is outside the case, it is labeled BLK LVL (the old black level pot) and is always active, so no jumpers to move.


Kim

Meant to say one that does not require a small screwdriver and can be adjusted easily in the dark . Not complaining though . Love the transcoder ! :D

Meant to say one that does not require a small screwdriver and can be adjusted easily in the dark . Not complaining though . Love the transcoder ! :D

Yeah, that would be easier, but since it is a set once and forget, I didn't sweat it too much. :)

Dave

Gamma seems to change a bit from source to source but its pretty close ...

Again, where are you guys ending up with with gamma? I've tried a couple of sources now (HD-DVD from an Xbox360 and my HD-PVR) - both running at 1080i/60. I found that 10 turns or so from zero (ie: 15 turns from max) seems the best. I've read that some others like 5 turns down from max but that seems to really wash out the picture. Had another forum member over (Chris Nuttall) who agreed with me. A little bit of gamma seems to go a long way.

Kal

P.S. Anyone tried the Xbox360 at 1080p over component through this box? When I tried this it resulted in a lot of strange tearing (don't know if it's an xbox problem, the transcoder, or my Zenith 1200/Cine8 Onyx).