Ok... I am trying to choose between P153s and P163s for surrounds. My room is small, but eventually I plan to movhen e this system to much larger room (when I move). My setup will be 2x 363s, 1x PC351, a BIC PL 200 sub, and the rears.

My thoughts are, the 162s have better low end response, but my room is small (14x11). The 152s will fit better. Placement is not a huge issue either way, they are going on stands. Thoughts?

Ok... I am trying to choose between P153s and P163s for surrounds. My room is small, but eventually I plan to movhen e this system to much larger room (when I move). My setup will be 2x 363s, 1x PC351, a BIC PL 200 sub, and the rears.

My thoughts are, the 162s have better low end response, but my room is small (14x11). The 152s will fit better. Placement is not a huge issue either way, they are going on stands. Thoughts?

I would go with the 15x model. It has a better crossover in my opinion with the drivers used and for surround duty will be more than adequate. You will save a few bucks and not really miss anything.

I would go with the 15x model. It has a better crossover in my opinion with the drivers used and for surround duty will be more than adequate. You will save a few bucks and not really miss anything.
And I was just about to say something clever, like 'Go big or go home.'

I would go with the 15x model. It has a better crossover in my opinion with the drivers used and for surround duty will be more than adequate. You will save a few bucks and not really miss anything.

I understand your comment about the 15X series being fine for surrounds.

However, if the poster ever wants to go 7.1, have four speakers all the same makes some sense.

Now, if he is absolutely sure he is never going 7.1, then your decision is a pretty rational one.

So if Im eventually going to go 7.1, should I consider the 163?

Another question....

I am considering two setups. My room is small (14x11), but within 2 years or so, I wil be moving these into a much larger room. Either will be paired with a BIC PL-200 sub.

Setup 1: 2x 363, 1x p351, 2x p153 = $750
Setup 2: 5x p163 $425 + 4x stands $160 = $585 (might be able to find cheaper stands?)

Thats a pretty big difference. I have the money, but this would free up some $$$ and let me upgrade my TV. What do you guys think?

Another question....

I am considering two setups. My room is small (14x11), but within 2 years or so, I wil be moving these into a much larger room. Either will be paired with a BIC PL-200 sub.

Setup 1: 2x 363, 1x p351, 2x p153 = $750
Setup 2: 5x p163 $425 + 4x stands $160 = $585 (might be able to find cheaper stands?)

Thats a pretty big difference. I have the money, but this would free up some $$$ and let me upgrade my TV. What do you guys think?In setup 1 you are talking about $750 in speakers vs. setup 2 where you are talking about $425 in speakers that costs $585. Thats a terrible deal.

Sound wise the 36x and 351 are really powerful. That is what I'm running and I'm quite happy. I know there are a few people who use the 16x and love them. I think you'd be happy either way you go, but setup 1 yields a much better sound.

Personally, I tend to invest more in audio gear then I do in displays. 20 year old speakers can sound outstanding, even today. Whereas I don't know anyone with a 20 year old display unit that considers it adequate today, much less state of the art.

In setup 1 you are talking about $750 in speakers vs. setup 2 where you are talking about $425 in speakers that costs $585. Thats a terrible deal.

Sound wise the 36x and 351 are really powerful. That is what I'm running and I'm quite happy. I know there are a few people who use the 16x and love them. I think you'd be happy either way you go, but setup 1 yields a much better sound.

Personally, I tend to invest more in audio gear then I do in displays. 20 year old speakers can sound outstanding, even today. Whereas I don't know anyone with a 20 year old display unit that considers it adequate today, much less state of the art.

Good point on the display.

I actually wasnt 100% accurate in my calculation, because I will need 2 stands for the rears regardless, so really the difference is around $245. I am still leaning towards the 363 and 351, but it just seems like a lot of speaker for what is going to be a pretty tiny theater.

Im juggling a pretty meager budget (around $2500 for everything, display, speakers, receiver, and misc).

Can you expand on how the sound is "better"? Is it just more power/voulme, or is the clarity / detail better?

Good point on the display.

I actually wasnt 100% accurate in my calculation, because I will need 2 stands for the rears regardless, so really the difference is around $245. I am still leaning towards the 363 and 351, but it just seems like a lot of speaker for what is going to be a pretty tiny theater.

Im juggling a pretty meager budget (around $2500 for everything, display, speakers, receiver, and misc).

Can you expand on how the sound is "better"? Is it just more power/voulme, or is the clarity / detail better?
I would be the wrong person to compare the 16x and the 36x since I haven't owned the 16x. There are quite a few solid reviews out there, check stereophile's review of the 361 from a few years ago to get an idea of the sound. They are very well regarded speakers. I understand the mids are no where as developed on the 16x and the bass doesn't have the accuracy. But, I'm sure someone with personal experience will be along shortly to give a more accurate answer.

Mind you, I think the 16x are good speakers but that the 36x are higher up in the model range and deliver a more accurate, powerful sound.

Regarding the size of the speakers in your smaller theater, I'm using my 362s, 351 and 151's in a theater that's shallow and wide. Its 12" x 23", so the display and speakers are all within 8-10 feet of my listening spots. Using my NAD t747 (highly recommended at the current sale price) and even with the older Yamaha 5750 receiver the sound was great. It blended in nicely, had nice stereo imaging and more than enough power to work perfectly with the sub disabled. The 362's, properly amp'd and eq'd by the NAD t747, do not need a sub to perform exceptionally in my smaller theater. With the lesser Yamaha they benefited from the sub but could run reasonably without it. And the 351 is the perfect center channel for this setup. It blends in and has the oompf when it needs to. Considering the price I paid for this gear, I'm super pleased.

You are right.... what am I even saying... buy LESS speaker?? That is so rediculous I am sorry I brought it up. :)


Seriously though, thanks for the advice. This is going to be my first foray beyond best buy junk speakers for music and HTIB. Im pretty excited.

You are right.... what am I even saying... buy LESS speaker?? That is so rediculous I am sorry I brought it up. :)


Seriously though, thanks for the advice. This is going to be my first foray beyond best buy junk speakers for music and HTIB. Im pretty excited.Lol, I'm such a bad influence.

You'll have a good time with all this gear. Its a tremendous sounding setup, no matter which you get. Just make sure you don't skimp on the receiver. If you don't already have one, take a serious look at the NAD t747. Its a proper audiophile receiver and delivers sound quality unmatched at its current price. Feature-wise, you'll find the stuff you need and not much else. I love it. Simple, sounds outstanding and provides power that far exceeds its specifications.

Just an observation I wanted to share with other P362 owners......

During testing on trying to decide which LFE cutoff frequency to use on my three P362's (L/C/R), I noticed major 'Port Noise/Port Chuffing' when playing test tones at 40hz and 60hz.

The noise was unacceptably loud at 40hz from the bass reflex port. I didn't realize that the foam padding inside the cabinet was literally flapping like a flag in high wind.

At 60hz, the noise was slightly lower but still noisy enough to raise the noise floor. Finally, at 80hz, the port noise/port chuffing completely dissapeared.
One more reason to go with an 80hz cutoff:)

Apparently, the 6" drivers can handle 40hz with ease but the foam inside the cabinet cannot.

So, unless you are willing to re-do the entire cabinet with some new glue and Owens Corning 703, etc, leave the 80hz LFE cutoff in place.

Just an observation I wanted to share with other P362 owners......

During testing on trying to decide which LFE cutoff frequency to use on my three P362's (L/C/R), I noticed major 'Port Noise/Port Chuffing' when playing test tones at 40hz and 60hz.

The noise was unacceptably loud at 40hz from the bass reflex port. I didn't realize that the foam padding inside the cabinet was literally flapping like a flag in high wind.

At 60hz, the noise was slightly lower but still noisy enough to raise the noise floor. Finally, at 80hz, the port noise/port chuffing completely dissapeared.
One more reason to go with an 80hz cutoff:)

Apparently, the 6" drivers can handle 40hz with ease but the foam inside the cabinet cannot.

So, unless you are willing to re-do the entire cabinet with some new glue and Owens Corning 703, etc, leave the 80hz LFE cutoff in place.Any idea how many dbs you were pushing when you heard this noise?

Any idea how many dbs you were pushing when you heard this noise?
I took a quick glance at the SPL meter and it read 85db, although it is very obvious even at lower db levels.

So if Im eventually going to go 7.1, should I consider the 163?

Yes, you should consider it.

Just an observation I wanted to share with other P362 owners......

During testing on trying to decide which LFE cutoff frequency to use on my three P362's (L/C/R), I noticed major 'Port Noise/Port Chuffing' when playing test tones at 40hz and 60hz.

The noise was unacceptably loud at 40hz from the bass reflex port. I didn't realize that the foam padding inside the cabinet was literally flapping like a flag in high wind.

At 60hz, the noise was slightly lower but still noisy enough to raise the noise floor. Finally, at 80hz, the port noise/port chuffing completely dissapeared.
One more reason to go with an 80hz cutoff:)

Apparently, the 6" drivers can handle 40hz with ease but the foam inside the cabinet cannot.

So, unless you are willing to re-do the entire cabinet with some new glue and Owens Corning 703, etc, leave the 80hz LFE cutoff in place.

One of the best things you could do is remove the cheap foam that they include in these speakers and put something formidable in there to reduce the reflections. I have a pair of 162's that I experimented with putting the peel and seal in several layers to reduce the cabinet resonance and added roxul safe and sound. I have been meaning to take "after" measurements, but my ears told me right away that the midrange sou d clarity was much better and the overall low end was tighter. I don't use these regularly so I have not bothered with testing using omnimic, but just thought I would throw it out there for any tinkerers.

Just an observation I wanted to share with other P362 owners......

During testing on trying to decide which LFE cutoff frequency to use on my three P362's (L/C/R), I noticed major 'Port Noise/Port Chuffing' when playing test tones at 40hz and 60hz.

The noise was unacceptably loud at 40hz from the bass reflex port. I didn't realize that the foam padding inside the cabinet was literally flapping like a flag in high wind...................

The Infinity Primus series demands a sub and that is the reason for for crossover being at 80hz. Should you want to drop below that, then you do so at you own peril with the possible destruction of said speaker that is now trying to handle low frequencies that it was not intended to do so. Aside from the flapping foam, look at the woofers as they try to meet your demands below 80hz.

I have a pair of 162's that I experimented with putting the peel and seal in several layers to reduce the cabinet resonance and added roxul safe and sound.

Did you buy these items from a local hardware store (Peel and Seal/Roxul) ?
I tried adding some Owens Corning 703 but have not removed the original foam yet.

The Infinity Primus series demands a sub and that is the reason for for crossover being at 80hz.
Quite the opposite, actually.

The drivers held up very well during the tests (no audible distortion or extreme driver excursion/bottoming, etc). And yes at 50hz crossover, the P362's sounded cleaner and better detailed than the two 15" subs I have (MFW-15 & DLS-5000R).

For two channel listening only, I dis-engage the subs. For 5.1, I use 80hz.

Did you buy these items from a local hardware store (Peel and Seal/Roxul) ?
I tried adding some Owens Corning 703 but have not removed the original foam yet.

Yes. I purchased the peel and seal at Lowes. Note that not all Lowes in my area (Indy) carried it, but a quick search online at lowes.com figured this out.

I purchased the roxul at 84 lumber.

Kids will be back in school soon, so I will have more free time to take some measurements.

Quite the opposite, actually.

The drivers held up very well during the tests (no audible distortion or extreme driver excursion/bottoming, etc). And yes at 50hz crossover, the P362's sounded cleaner and better detailed than the two 15" subs I have (MFW-15 & DLS-5000R).

For two channel listening only, I dis-engage the subs. For 5.1, I use 80hz.That's essentially the same thing I do. The low end on those Primus 362s is terrific when its properly amplified. The sub is used strictly to backup my surrounds and center channel. Its a great blend.

(stock speakers, no mods) I listen at relatively low levels 90% of the time.

The Infinity Primus series demands a sub and that is the reason for for crossover being at 80hz. Should you want to drop below that, then you do so at you own peril with the possible destruction of said speaker that is now trying to handle low frequencies that it was not intended to do so. Aside from the flapping foam, look at the woofers as they try to meet your demands below 80hz.

Some would argue that crossing the mains (but not the center or surrounds) at 60Hz is better for the P36x

Yes. I purchased the peel and seal at Lowes.

Thanks! I will check these out.

Some would argue that crossing the mains (but not the center or surrounds) at 60Hz is better for the P36x

Trust your ears, but the sub is meant to handle those lower frequencies while the P36x is not. If a sub cannot outperform the P36x at those lower frequencies, then something is wrong with the sub, especially if you have chosen an Infinity PS212 sub or better.

Thanks! I will check these out.

One word of caution, wear some glove or other protection. There is a foil face that is very sharp on the ends when you handle it. The peel and seal is a very good product. We recently purchased new granite countertops and put in a large bowl stainless steel sink. I put the peal and seal all around the perimeter of the sink and it took all the ringing and loud sound out of the sink as well as any excess vibration when running the garbage disposal.

I know this is a little OT, but wanted to give you an idea of how good a product this is to absorb resonance vibration.

I think I have some pictures that I took of the process, so I will have to try and find those and post them.

Good luck.

I just bought a pair of p163s for my friend, paired with a HSU STF-1 and a 50wpc Dayton DTA-100 from parts express. I originally was getting the p143 because its for his desktop so didn't want it that big, but for a little more monies, he could have the p163 so I went with that.

Two things, the dimensions do look really big and not sure of the Dayton amp can power it even though its more efficient than the p143.

I just bought a pair of p163s for my friend, paired with a HSU STF-1 and a 50wpc Dayton DTA-100 from parts express. I originally was getting the p143 because its for his desktop so didn't want it that big, but for a little more monies, he could have the p163 so I went with that.

Two things, the dimensions do look really big and not sure of the Dayton amp can power it even though its more efficient than the p143.

Well, for near field listening the good news is you don't need a lot of power. I doubt the dta-100 is putting out the power Dayton states but those speakers shouldn't need very much power to deliver good results on a desktop. Your friend will be getting some good gear, the sub, amp and speakers should rock pretty hard. I hope you've got a high quality source for this setup. And don't say your driving it off your laptop's headphone jack, please. :)

By the way, I just watched Scott Pilgrim vs. the World on my Primus system powered by the NAD t747 and I'm continually impressed with the bass from the 362's. Its clean and detailed. Unlike my low cost sub, you can hear the nuances of the bass and they sound great. I also listened to Miles Davis' Kind of Blue and the imaging of the horns is just terrific. Highly recommended if you like Jazz.

By the way, I just watched Scott Pilgrim vs. the World on my Primus system powered by the NAD t747 and I'm continually impressed with the bass from the 362's. Its clean and detailed. Unlike my low cost sub, you can hear the nuances of the bass and they sound great. I also listened to Miles Davis' Kind of Blue and the imaging of the horns is just terrific. Highly recommended if you like Jazz.

What do you have your 362's crossed at? Any pics :D?

There is nothing at all wrong with the Hsu speakers and at their price point will beat all comers. The sound of the speaker is more a function of room acoustics and that is the biggest X factor that is not very well appreciated. There is all too much emphasis on changing the front speakers to whatever, instead of trying to maximize what can be done with the existing fronts. For those with multi-speaker setups, the Hsu's are a very inexpensive way to get great sound, assuming some form of advanced acoustic calibration. That is not a given because cost will always have to be factored in.

I just upgraded my Audyssey 2eq to MultEQ XT, and it made a huge difference on my HSU hb1-mk2. You were correct. I will hold on the HSUs for now, and just keep my Inifinity Betas for the surrounds. I thought it would be cool to match the surrounds, but the HSUs are very detailed and transparent.

What do you have your 362's crossed at? Any pics :D?I have switched between a 60\80hz crossover and just running them straight. For music I always run straight and most movies I do too. The only time I crossover the 362s is if I'm watching a movie with a soundtrack that really needs ridiculous bass. The other 90% of the time there's no crossover. Before I bought the NAD t747 I couldn't do that since that amp in my Yamaha 5750 didn't have the guts to properly power the Infinity's. Whereas the NAD has plenty of clean power. So, the bass and mid-base are much more defined and articulate with this Amp. Plus, the older Yamaha didn't have any room calibration system so it was doubly disadvantaged. Still, it served well for many years and will soon move to a place of honor in my garage. :)

I just grabbed a quick snapshot of the setup. I don't have time to grab my Nikon d3100 and get a proper picture at the moment but I'll see about doing that once I've straightened up enough you can't see what a mess my place is at the moment. :)

Awesome! Looks clean and mean! If you don't mind me saying, is there no boxy sound from the center with it not being at the front edge of the cabinet?

Awesome! Looks clean and mean! If you don't mind me saying, is there no boxy sound from the center with it not being at the front edge of the cabinet?
Ya, that cabinet is the bane of my existence. You see, my wife really likes it and I'm ready to retire the old thing. But, considering that she's not given me too hard of a time on the rest of my upgrades I've been letting that one slide. Honestly, I've about given up on finding something we like enough to buy to replace the stand and I'm debating getting some wood working tools and seeing if I can build it myself.

To answer your question, I can't say I've ever noticed a boxiness to the sound. The center sits about 1-3" from the edge of the cabinet so I'm sure there's some reflections and potentially even worse. However, either my ears aren't that good or maybe my mind just tells my ears not to worry about it. Either way, the center seems to have the same quality sound and tone as the 362's so I haven't worried about it.

With my Yamaha it was possible to identify the individual speakers, including the center, on most content. Since I switched to the NAD the blend has improved substantially. And, once I ran the room calibration the stereo imaging and sound stage really filled in. Also, the center and 362's seemed to blend in significantly more and it is now quite hard to isolate what any of the front channels are doing. Sorry, Deepstang, I know thats a long winded answer to your question. After hearing all that, what do you think? Should I worry?

Ya, that cabinet is the bane of my existence. You see, my wife really likes it and I'm ready to retire the old thing. But, considering that she's not given me too hard of a time on the rest of my upgrades I've been letting that one slide. Honestly, I've about given up on finding something we like enough to buy to replace the stand and I'm debating getting some wood working tools and seeing if I can build it myself.

To answer your question, I can't say I've ever noticed a boxiness to the sound. The center sits about 1-3" from the edge of the cabinet so I'm sure there's some reflections and potentially even worse. However, either my ears aren't that good or maybe my mind just tells my ears not to worry about it. Either way, the center seems to have the same quality sound and tone as the 362's so I haven't worried about it.

With my Yamaha it was possible to identify the individual speakers, including the center, on most content. Since I switched to the NAD the blend has improved substantially. And, once I ran the room calibration the stereo imaging and sound stage really filled in. Also, the center and 362's seemed to blend in significantly more and it is now quite hard to isolate what any of the front channels are doing. Sorry, Deepstang, I know thats a long winded answer to your question. After hearing all that, what do you think? Should I worry?

do it

Good deals on P363. Don't know how long it'll last.

http://www.dealsofamerica.com/Infinity-Primus-363-Three-way-dual-6-12-inch-Speaker/156836.htm

Hi guys,

I'm having a tough time making a decision on which front pair to start with.

A few years ago i had P252s with the C351 center in a large living room with a 52" TV. I loved them! I sold those awhile ago and am now looking to rebuild a new HT in a new place.

The new place, however is smaller. Its about a 13' deep and about 15' wide. The front right has a doorway to a hallway and the left side has a door way to the dining room. The TV is 40" and is about 10' from speaker position to ear.

I think i've ruled out the P362s because i think they are just too big for this small Cambridge apartment and TV. I'm leaning toward P252s again, but I also wonder about simply using P162s. Sadly i think i'll need to go with the C251 center eventually because the C351 is massive and would look as big as my TV!

Budget is a concern so i'm starting with just the front L/R for now. So what do you guys think about the P162s vs P252s? It'd be great to avoid dealing with speaker stands, the P252s move more air.. is that the clear way to go?

Thanks a lot!

Hi guys,

I'm having a tough time making a decision on which front pair to start with.

A few years ago i had P252s with the C351 center in a large living room with a 52" TV. I loved them! I sold those awhile ago and am now looking to rebuild a new HT in a new place.

The new place, however is smaller. Its about a 13' deep and about 15' wide. The front right has a doorway to a hallway and the left side has a door way to the dining room. The TV is 40" and is about 10' from speaker position to ear.

I think i've ruled out the P362s because i think they are just too big for this small Cambridge apartment and TV. I'm leaning toward P252s again, but I also wonder about simply using P162s. Sadly i think i'll need to go with the C251 center eventually because the C351 is massive and would look as big as my TV!

Budget is a concern so i'm starting with just the front L/R for now. So what do you guys think about the P162s vs P252s? It'd be great to avoid dealing with speaker stands, the P252s move more air.. is that the clear way to go?

Thanks a lot!

If the price difference is not that much, I'd rather get the P252.

Finally upgraded my front sound stage! Wow what a difference!! I had an old set of Infinity Primus speakers I bought in a theater package quite a few years ago. The package was 4 x Primus P140 bookshelfs and PC140 center channel. They really lacked any low end and I had always had the center up +3db just so I could hear voices clearly.

I just installed the replacement speakers last night and re-ran Audyssey. I was very surprised with how much better they sounded. Much clearer voices and much better mid-range and low-end punch. I decided to just keep a set of P140s for my rear speakers, I didn't see any reason to upgrade those.

Upgraded:
Infinity Primus P163BK (Front Left/Right)
Infinity Primus PC251BK (Center)

Rest of my system:
Infinity Primus P140 (Rear Left/Right)
SVSound PB10-NSD Subwoofer
Denon AVR-590

Trust your ears, but the sub is meant to handle those lower frequencies while the P36x is not. If a sub cannot outperform the P36x at those lower frequencies, then something is wrong with the sub, especially if you have chosen an Infinity PS212 sub or better.

60Hz is a lower frequency? *Cough* 15Hz? Yes.

I trust my ears well. In my environment crossing the mains at 60 works better.

The P36x towers will go down to 40Hz in most rooms w/o an issue. However, I do agree that the sub(s) should handle the load at that point.

80Hz might work better for your room and your mains. 60Hz works better for me.

60Hz is a lower frequency? *Cough* 15Hz? Yes.

I trust my ears well. In my environment crossing the mains at 60 works better.

The P36x towers will go down to 40Hz in most rooms w/o an issue. However, I do agree that the sub(s) should handle the load at that point.

80Hz might work better for your room and your mains. 60Hz works better for me.

Cannot argue with your ears. It is preference. Can you safely play at reference for film? And do you have more than one sub?

Hello All,
i posted this image in another thread, i guess this is the correct.
i bought p153 speakers for surround and i think they look super huuuuuge
instead, what do you think?

Hello All,
i posted this image in another thread, i guess this is the correct.
i bought p153 speakers for surround and i think they look super huuuuuge
instead, what do you think?What matters is what you think. I'm using the 140's for my rears and they are largish but not as bad as the 150's.

I think if i had more space it would be ok, but its just to largish its intimidating
This is another angle

try in walls.. I had the same situation you did and I love them...I painted the grills and you dont even know they are there.

Hello All,
i posted this image in another thread, i guess this is the correct.
i bought p153 speakers for surround and i think they look super huuuuuge
instead, what do you think?

It should make no difference, unless you want to always look at the surrounds during playback and that is not common. Besides, in a theater, do you look at the speakers that are setup on high and down both sides of the theater? If this is an aesthetic concern, then you will have to do what you think is appropriate. The other warning is that because these will be wall mounted, be very careful about their placement because it could easily be a big PIA to relocate them. In other words, I would try some dry runs before actually mounting them.

I think if i had more space it would be ok, but its just to largish its intimidating
This is another angle

Aesthetics are one issue. Some people like intimidating. Ever seen the floor to ceiling line columns from the 70s? But, that's not everyone's cup of tea!

The real issue is you aren't going to get any envelopment. Your seating area is against the back wall. I assume the room is tight. You could try inwalls as someone else mentioned--to the sides of the listening area. Even if you had a foot or so behind the couch, you likely won't get a good surround effect with the speakers behind you, unless they are back surround in a 7.1. Even then, you'd need more space.

Aesthetics are one issue. Some people like intimidating. Ever seen the floor to ceiling line columns from the 70s? But, that's not everyone's cup of tea!

The real issue is you aren't going to get any envelopment. Your seating area is against the back wall. I assume the room is tight. You could try inwalls as someone else mentioned--to the sides of the listening area. Even if you had a foot or so behind the couch, you likely won't get a good surround effect with the speakers behind you, unless they are back surround in a 7.1. Even then, you'd need more space.

You are right i dont feel the envelopment, i hear them,but dont feel the envelopment. I will take some pics of the room
Hoping you guys can point out where would be better or if its better to change from wall mounts to speaker stands

You are right i dont feel the envelopment, i hear them,but dont feel the envelopment. I will take some pics of the room
Hoping you guys can point out where would be better or if its better to change from wall mounts to speaker stands

Start here: http://www.thx.com/consumer/home-entertainment/home-theater/surround-sound-speaker-set-up/#5.1

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=824554

My surrounds are 12' away from my listening position. Raise them higher and further away from the couch - in the top corners if you can, and toe them in further (pointing more towards the back of the couch). That would be a huge improvement...

what do you think?tulow, I think your speakers are too low. I would spread them as wide apart as symmetrically possible AND raise them at least a couple of feet above ear level. Keep them pointed towards the listening area. I will take some pics of the roomThat would be helpful.

My surrounds are 12' away from my listening position. Raise them higher and further away from the couch - in the top corners if you can, and toe them in further (pointing more towards the back of the couch). That would be a huge improvement...How does this improve the acoustics? I have a similiar setup and need to adjust too.

How does this improve the acoustics? I have a similiar setup and need to adjust too.

Unless you try it, you will never know. The surrounds cannot be at the same level as the L & R fronts. There is no hard and fast rule which is why you have to try it out and then, hopefully, experience a more enveloping acoustic environment - actually this is a certainty.

How does this improve the acoustics? I have a similiar setup and need to adjust too.

http://www.thx.com/consumer/home-entertainment/home-theater/surround-sound-speaker-set-up/

"Surround Left & Right Speakers (SL & SR): Place the SL & SR speakers between 90° to 110° to each side and 2 feet or higher above the listener. The SL & SR speakers recreate the enveloping sound and intense special effects that you experience in the cinema."

Having the speakers near-field is like wearing headphones. You need air and reflections to create space and enveloping sound.

I disagree to the extent some have implied surround height is an absolute, right or wrong answer. At most, it depends on preference, and the future seems to look like ear level placement.

Ear level for surrounds is a problem IF you are localizing sounds to the detriment of the surround illusion. The idea of lifting surrounds high on the walls dates back to original Dolby ProLogic when surrounds were strictly for movies and the only sounds sent to surround channels were delays to give a crude envelopment illusion. Today's soundtracks have discrete surround signals that combine tangible effects like a door closing, flyovers, or whizzing arrows, with studio added reverberation. So, there are sounds you need to hear from a localized source and sounds that if localized will destroy the illusion. If atmospherics and such are done right in the studio, you won't localize them at ear level, unless perhaps your room just doesn't allow enough distance from the surround speakers and the seating area. If you have surrounds up high or even worse a dipole speaker that sends sound to a typical home listening room's poorest reflection points--the front and back walls--you might not hear the flyover pan correctly. Pinpoint effects like a broken window could be off.

Another factor in favor of ear level placement is if you listen to multichannel music. You can probably generalize that for multichannel music, the majority preference is 7 identical loudpseakers all at the same ear level. That is unlikely to be true for movie mixing. Sadly there just isn't a commonly followed or accepted standard.

If you are going to use your system for a variety of music and movie formats, if you are going to upmix stereo sources with PL IIx, etc., then you owe it to yourself to experiment, and I suggest starting at ear level unless you're sitting really close. There really isn't right or wrong answer at this time, and the historic trend arguably suggests starting at ear level.

Unless you try it, you will never know. The surrounds cannot be at the same level as the L & R fronts. There is no hard and fast rule which is why you have to try it out and then, hopefully, experience a more enveloping acoustic environment - actually this is a certainty.

http://www.thx.com/consumer/home-entertainment/home-theater/surround-sound-speaker-set-up/

"Surround Left & Right Speakers (SL & SR): Place the SL & SR speakers between 90° to 110° to each side and 2 feet or higher above the listener. The SL & SR speakers recreate the enveloping sound and intense special effects that you experience in the cinema."

Having the speakers near-field is like wearing headphones. You need air and reflections to create space and enveloping sound.

Thanks for the suggestions and I appreciate the link. My setup allows for the distances you mentioned when I'm seated away from the edges of the couch. In fact, about the only time it would be less than specified is if I'm on the edge and leaning over it. I'm going to keep this in mind when I move though. I'll have considerably more flexibility then in positioning so I'll use that to my advantage.

Thanks again!

I just received the PC351 and a pair of the P363s. I've been holding onto the pioneer VSX-31 I got from costco, but from dekard's comments it sounds like the towers need a beefier amp to get the most out of them. The VSX-31 is rated at 80w + 80W, should this be enough?

I just received the PC351 and a pair of the P363s. I've been holding onto the pioneer VSX-31 I got from costco, but from dekard's comments it sounds like the towers need a beefier amp to get the most out of them. The VSX-31 is rated at 80w + 80W, should this be enough?

I'm thinking of the same speakers. Just got the Pioneer 1021. Wondering the same thing now.

I'm thinking of the same speakers. Just got the Pioneer 1021. Wondering the same thing now.

lol I thought you bought them already. I wish there was something decent 400 or less, because the T747 (600) sounds like overkill, but less overkill than the SC-35 costco deal (795 w/ MD tax)

There's deals on the yamaha's @BB and newegg right now 667 and 867/A800 but I have no idea how good those amps are.

I'm thinking of the same speakers. Just got the Pioneer 1021. Wondering the same thing now.

I just received the PC351 and a pair of the P363s. I've been holding onto the pioneer VSX-31 I got from costco, but from dekard's comments it sounds like the towers need a beefier amp to get the most out of them. The VSX-31 is rated at 80w + 80W, should this be enough?

I'm not sure of the answers to your questions. I can tell you that the NAD is rated for 60 watts but repeated testing has shown it to deliver 130 watts (http://www.hometheater.com/content/nad-t-747-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures) when using the same techniques other manufacturers use to rate their product. Like most audiophile companies, they purposefully underrate their amps. The contrast is that most amps sold in the mass markets tend to deliver a lot less than advertised. I've seen amps rated at 80 watts push out 30-40, depending on the load. Here's some instrumented testing of a Pioneer VSX-1021 (http://www.hometheater.com/content/pioneer-vsx-1021-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures) that's rated for 130 watts a channel and yet only pushed out 45-55 watts when tested. Check the image I attached to this post for the picture from Pioneer's website showing their wattage claims. The NAD under the same tests showed 99-114 watts from its 60 watt ratings.

I know absolutely nothing about your Pioneer VSX-31. It is one of their Elite receivers, so it should be on their higher end. It is interesting to note that the Pioneer Elite VSX-31 weighs in at 22 lbs and is rated for 80 x 7 watts. The NAD t747 comes in at 30 lbs and is rated at 60 x 7 watts. When you consider the size and quality of the power supply needed to deliver that much power, its evident someone's specifications aren't telling the whole story. So, perhaps you are getting the watts but they couldn't be as clean as an amp with a beefier backend?

For what it's worth, I came from a Yamaha that is rated at 65 watts x 6. But, when I drove the towers, the 362s, to higher volumes the sound really came apart. It got harsh and gritty and the volume stopped getting much louder. That Yamaha had the spec's but it didn't have the power. The NAD, on the other hand, has lower specs. But, when the volume raises, the sound stays just as effortless and clean as it is at lower volumes. My wife used to complain all the time whenever a movie got louder. In hindsight, the amp ran out of steam and got gritty when the movie got loud. With the NAD, the complaints stoped because it sounds clean and smooth, even at high volumes.

I think if what I'm saying makes any kind of sense, you should order an amp with a really great back end, like the NAD t747. If you try it out and you don't like it, send it back! If what I'm saying doesn't make any sense, open another Bud Lite and don't worry about it.

a somewhat newbish question...but I bought pre-banana'd cables for the P363s and the PC351. What's the easiest way to remove the plastic piece covering the terminal?

a somewhat newbish question...but I bought pre-banana'd cables for the P363s and the PC351. What's the easiest way to remove the plastic piece covering the terminal?

If they are anything like Polks they just unscrew. I put them back on though after removing the plastic piece that blocks the terminal hole.

If they are anything like Polks they just unscrew. I put them back on though after removing the plastic piece that blocks the terminal hole.

it doesn't unscrew all the way though

it doesn't unscrew all the way though

i believe you can gently pry the plastic middle portion out with a flathead screwdriver. then you can stick the banana plugs in the middle.

What's the easiest way to remove the plastic piece covering the terminal?Slide a blade (like a utility knife or kitchen knife) under the edge of the plastic cap and gently twist to lift.

i believe you can gently pry the plastic middle portion out with a flathead screwdriver. then you can stick the banana plugs in the middle.

lol I feel like I'm scratching the @#$% out of the binding posts trying to do it

hmm...so I've hooked it up to the VSX-31 running Iron Man right now and it doesn't sound too bad..though at most I've cranked it to -20, could probably still use a sub in certain sequences though. I'd probably have to A/B it to something better to hear the difference.

my local BB has the denon 1911 for 249..50 bucks less than the vsx-31 and denon's are known to be more powerful than similar pioneers in this price range. Can any of the 1911 owners comment here?

my local BB has the denon 1911 for 249..50 bucks less than the vsx-31 and denon's are known to be more powerful than similar pioneers in this price range. Can any of the 1911 owners comment here?

With all do respect, you are better off posting in the receiver area...more specifically in the Denon thread.

my local BB has the denon 1911 for 249..50 bucks less than the vsx-31 and denon's are known to be more powerful than similar pioneers in this price range. Can any of the 1911 owners comment here?The 1911 is supposed to be a good receiver. Still, considering what the Primus are capable of, I hate to see people using cheap receivers with gutless amps. I'm *not* saying the 1911 is, just the many people in this thread are under-powering the larger Primus.

well unfortunately for me the 1911 sold over the weekend...in its place I found the 891, which is 100 more, but is essentially this receiver here, minus some of the features (Ci related mostly).

http://www.hometheater.com/content/denon-avr-2311ci-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

I have the 2311 setup with 2x360s, 351 CC and it seems like a good combo. The Primus towers are pretty efficient so they sound good even with mid-range receivers IMHO.

Agreed. Just because the speakers are large doesn't necessarily mean that they will be harder to push. Looking at the efficiency rating is key. All the Primus speakers are pretty efficient, and any receiver that is rated 90 watts should have no problem in pushing the Primus to reference levels.

http://www.infinitysystems.com/home/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=P163BK&cat=BOK&ser=PRI&Language=ENG&Region=USA&Country=US

The larger PC351 center is actually rated 1db higher than the matching P163 bookshelf.

http://www.infinitysystems.com/home/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=PC351BK&cat=CCS&ser=PRI&Language=ENG&Region=USA&Country=US


Btw, has anyone here gone from a Polk Rti series to the Primus??

Also, can anyone comment on the performance of the PC351 center??

Yo Infinity Primus P163 or P162 owners! Have you ever heard of a P163/2 speaker blowing from being pushed too hard? I like to listen to movies and music loud, and I have heard some comment that they are scared to push their Primus speakers too hard. Comments??

Yo Infinity Primus P163 or P162 owners! Have you ever heard of a P163/2 speaker blowing from being pushed too hard? I like to listen to movies and music loud, and I have heard some comment that they are scared to push their Primus speakers too hard. Comments??

Having owned P162 speakers some time ago, these would hardly be a speaker of choice to play at loud volumes.

If you choose to do so, be sure to have an amplifier that will support the loud volumes. The most common failure (true with any speaker, not specific to P162/3) is driving speakers hard with an underpowered amp. Clipping results, often resulting in blown tweeters.

Any speaker will blow from being pushed TOO hard, but Infinitys are pretty well made and can take a lot of power before you have to worry about that.

I would be a lot more worried about using a cheap amp or receiver that can't push enough clean power at high volume levels, amplifier clipping can very easily damage your speakers. Remember, too much power is always safer than too little.

Infinity speakers, like all speakers designed by Harman International out of Northridge, CA undergo 100 hours of full rated power testing in an enclosed cement wall room before they can pass the power test milestone which is one of the final milestones of any Harman speaker design project. If I remember correctly, the amps used in the Harman speaker test chamber are pro models capable of supplying in excess of 500 watts into a 4 ohm load.

But, and this is the big "But", as stevensctt and Remonster correctly assert most lower cost speakers are blown by receiver's/ amps which are pushed too hard into clipping. These are usually your receivers rated at "100 watts per channel!" that retail for $300 - $500. At Harman we speaker engineers referred to those watts as "mouse watts". Clipping shoves what it essentially DC voltage directly into the speaker system. Most times it is the tweeter which will blow first but mid/woofers can also succumb because the woofer's voice coil is also pushed way out of its controlling gap for sustained periods so there is no opportunity for the coil to cool.

^^^

That's about as succinct as you can get. Don't drive the amp into clipping and distortion because you think that it isn't loud enough or pay the price.

Glad to see this thread woke up!

So what you guys are trying to say is that you can crank the volume on the P163 without having the SPEAKER to blame for any sort of distortion or limits. I understand that cheap amps and high volume can cause a tweeter or speaker to blow.

I was asking if the P163 driver can handle loud volumes without me getting nervous of it blowing. I can crank my HSU HB-1 without any concern. Was hoping I can have the same confidence with the P163.

Glad to see this thread woke up!

So what you guys are trying to say is that you can crank the volume on the P163 without having the SPEAKER to blame for any sort of distortion or limits. I understand that cheap amps and high volume can cause a tweeter or speaker to blow.

I was asking if the P163 driver can handle loud volumes without me getting nervous of it blowing. I can crank my HSU HB-1 without any concern. Was hoping I can have the same confidence with the P163.

What kind of amp do you have? These speakers while easy to drive for the most part dip down to 4 Ohm at certain frequencies.

I have a Denon 2112. I appreciate the help. I have not had any trouble pushing my HSU HB-1, AV123 X-LS and the Energy RC-10 to loud volumes. My question was more in regards to if the P163 is reliable when played occasionally at louder volumes. It is a steal for $85 a piece.

I have a Denon 2112. I appreciate the help. I have not had any trouble pushing my HSU HB-1, AV123 X-LS and the Energy RC-10 to loud volumes. My question was more in regards to if the P163 is reliable when played occasionally at louder volumes. It is a steal for $85 a piece.

Sorry, I was thinking of the 363's. I'm sure you shouldn't have too many issues driving the P163. (Even my 362's haven't had any issues from my HK 247--although I plan to get either a Yamaha pro-amp or an Emotiva in the near future to make sure.)

Thanks. I actually have no question in my mind that my receiver can push the P163. I was asking if the P163 has the balls to be pushed.

Yes, I understand lesser amps and receivers will distort and cause speaker damage at higher volumes. I am NOT referring to that scenario. Thanks again.

I'm in the process of building my first real home theater system, and have pretty much settled on the Infinity Primus P163, which from what I've read are a great value at $85. After two of those, a receiver (Onkyo HT-RC360 for $250), and a sub (Bic F12 for $183), my budget is down to around $200 for the rest of the system.

I had been thinking of getting the PC-350 center with that $200, and either leaving the system at 3.1 or using my old Logitech Z-5450 for the surround, depending on which sounded better in testing. However, reading back through the last couple of pages of this thread, I see recommendations for just using a third P163 for the center, which I hadn't considered before. Doing that would free up enough to get a couple of P143s for matching surround and come in right at my budget target of $800.

Is that sort of setup still recommended? Has anyone tried it in the real world? How much would I really be giving up going from the 350 to an additional 163, and would the higher-quality surrounds make up for it? This is for an even mix of movies and gaming with only occasional music, so having dialogue be clear is pretty important.

Thanks!

Our resident Infinity expert, PLHart, will tell you that 3 matching speakers across the front is best because there will be no timbral differences across the front soundstage as sounds move from L to C to R. He designed the Beta line, which are almost solely responsible for the existence of the Primus line. OTOH, the center channel carries close to 80 per cent of the front channel information. So the larger the speaker the louder you can play it. Here's what it boils down to. How loud do you want to run your system, and how large is your room? In my room (14x20) there's no way I could run 3 Primus 163s at the levels I want. Your mileage may vary. But with those caveats going with 3 identical speakers across the front is absolutely the best way to go. Just remember this: power. Lots of power. Always. Never skimp. No cheapo 100wpc @ $3-400. Not if you want accuracy and volume and minimal distortion. Listen and decide for yourself. 40 years ago I listened to my Advents with a 30wpc Sony and was incredibly happy. Little did I know that 100wpc would make a difference.

Thanks. So the cheaper 163 option is actually better for sound quality and mainly sacrifices volume? I think I can live with that. The room is 10'W x 12'L, with the left side open to the dining room, but we don't tend to crank the volume up to extreme levels -- the current Logitech system gets plenty loud for our tastes, and I'm assuming the new system should blow that away.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying about the power, though. I thought 100 wpc was pretty standard? The receiver I'm looking at lists 100W at 8 ohms and 125 at 6 -- is that not enough? It has a list price of $549, so I thought I was safely stepping out of the budget category into a solid middle tier.

Thanks. So the cheaper 163 option is actually better for sound quality and mainly sacrifices volume? I think I can live with that. The room is 10'W x 12'L, with the left side open to the dining room, but we don't tend to crank the volume up to extreme levels -- the current Logitech system gets plenty loud for our tastes, and I'm assuming the new system should blow that away.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying about the power, though. I thought 100 wpc was pretty standard? The receiver I'm looking at lists 100W at 8 ohms and 125 at 6 -- is that not enough? It has a list price of $549, so I thought I was safely stepping out of the budget category into a solid middle tier.

You don't sacrifice volume with a bookshelf. You sacrifice bass without a subwoofer. If you have a decent subwoofer, your low end and mid-bass should be good.

I doubt that you have a true 100W receiver for $549. It's probably 100W stereo but I doubt that a $549 receiver truly does all channels driven at 100wpc.

This is AVS. We have people here who think $6k Classe receivers are mid-range. (They are compared to a $30k Mark Levinson processor.) Truthfully, IMHO, midrange for receivers stretches from about $700-$1500.

You don't sacrifice volume with a bookshelf. You sacrifice bass without a subwoofer. If you have a decent subwoofer, your low end and mid-bass should be good.


I would have a subwoofer either way. The choice is whether to use a third bookshelf p163 for the center channel or get the more expensive pc351 dedicated center speaker.


This is AVS. We have people here who think $6k Classe receivers are mid-range. (They are compared to a $30k Mark Levinson processor.) Truthfully, IMHO, midrange for receivers stretches from about $700-$1500.

Okay, fair enough. $800 is my budget for the entire system, and anything in that midrange would cost as much or more than the whole set of Primus speakers they'd be powering. I guess my target is more accurately described as upper-entry-level -- something that will blow away my $250 HTiB reference point without breaking the bank.

Infinity speakers, like all speakers designed by Harman International out of Northridge, CA undergo 100 hours of full rated power testing in an enclosed cement wall room before they can pass the power test milestone which is one of the final milestones of any Harman speaker design project. If I remember correctly, the amps used in the Harman speaker test chamber are pro models capable of supplying in excess of 500 watts into a 4 ohm load.

But, and this is the big "But", as stevensctt and Remonster correctly assert most lower cost speakers are blown by receiver's/ amps which are pushed too hard into clipping. These are usually your receivers rated at "100 watts per channel!" that retail for $300 - $500. At Harman we speaker engineers referred to those watts as "mouse watts". Clipping shoves what it essentially DC voltage directly into the speaker system. Most times it is the tweeter which will blow first but mid/woofers can also succumb because the woofer's voice coil is also pushed way out of its controlling gap for sustained periods so there is no opportunity for the coil to cool.

Wow, I had no idea Harman tested their speakers so thoroughly. I just happened to be browsing through this thread when I posted above but in the short time since I impulse-bought a pair of 163BKs off Amazon, should be here Saturday. I can't wait to hear them.

@Boojum42: In a 10x12 room you should be fine, your receiver should be fine, and your speakers WILL be outstanding. Forego the added expense of a dedicated center and go with 3 matched speakers across the front. The difference between this setup and HTIB will be so dramatic...words fail me. Enjoy.

IMOP, if you can use the 16x for the center you actually gain more frequency response.

According to the spec, the PC35x's start rolling off at 80hz. The 16x is closer to 50hz.

If you cross over to a sub at 80 you stand less chance of losing center channel sound with the 163.

The PC35x's lack of lower frequency response if my only real complaint about the primus line. I would prefer the +/-3db to be lower than 80hz...

http://www.infinitysystems.com/home/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=PC351BK&cat=CCS&ser=PRI&Language=ENG&Region=USA&Country=US

Thanks again, guys. I think I'm getting down to the last couple of questions before pulling the trigger.

First, I had thought I had plenty of room between the entertainment center and the wall-mounted TV, but upon actually pulling out the tape measure, I see the 163's height of 15" is larger than I'd been imagining, and would protrude a couple inches into the screen. Would wall-mounting it above the TV or laying it on its side be a viable option, or would that sacrifice sound quality? If neither of those is recommended, I should be able to adjust the TV upward on its mount, but we're pretty happy with the current viewing angle, so that would be the second choice.

And speaking of wall mounting, any decent, affordable recommendations for it, since the 163 doesn't have keyhole mounts? The one that came up in searches is the Pinpoint AM40, but at $60 each, that's almost as much as the speakers, and doesn't seem worth it. If no ready-made solution is available, I can probably just DIY bases out of $10 worth of shelving materials and velcro from Home Depot. The 143 surrounds say that they come with built in wall mounts, so it shouldn't be an issue for them.

I've also read conflicting information in speaker setup guides about whether the speakers should be positioned level to the floor or tilted down and aimed toward the listening position. What would you guys recommend?

IMOP, if you can use the 16x for the center you actually gain more frequency response.

According to the spec, the PC35x's start rolling off at 80hz. The 16x is closer to 50hz.

If you cross over to a sub at 80 you stand less chance of losing center channel sound with the 163.

The PC35x's lack of lower frequency response if my only real complaint about the primus line. I would prefer the +/-3db to be lower than 80hz...

http://www.infinitysystems.com/home/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=PC351BK&cat=CCS&ser=PRI&Language=ENG&Region=USA&Country=US

I own a pair of P162's and there is no way they go down to 50 Hz. I doubt very much that there is a significant difference in response between the P and the PC.

With any Primus system, I would crossover to a subwoofer at 80 - 100 Hz.

I own a pair of P162's and there is no way they go down to 50 Hz. I doubt very much that there is a significant difference in response between the P and the PC.

With any Primus system, I would crossover to a subwoofer at 80 - 100 Hz.
So do I, and I agree with you on the 162's not hitting 50hz -- but they at least clear 80hz before rolling off -- the PC might hit 80hz... might being the key word.

I own a pair of P162's and there is no way they go down to 50 Hz. I doubt very much that there is a significant difference in response between the P and the PC.

With any Primus system, I would crossover to a subwoofer at 80 - 100 Hz.

I measured in room response on my p162's to 50 Hz 3db down. I will look for the graph and post it. I also did a little "Mod" to these speakers with peel and seal and some roxul mineral wool in lieu of the cheap stuff they had in them. Helped to smooth the response and also get a little better lower end response.

Do other P163 owners feel like the speaker is a little thin on the bottom end? I only got mine a few days ago so they aren't fully burned in yet but I'm wondering if my 50wpc Dayton dta-100a isn't powerful enough or maybe I'm just used to the exaggerated low end of the Audioengine A5s I had previously? I was hoping the larger 6.5" woofer would dig down deeper than those A5s but if anything the P163s seem to roll off earlier than my A5s which is disappointing.

Other than that, I am extremely impressed with the 163, especially considering I only paid around $80 each (Amazon) they work pretty well for nearfield, desktop use.

Hi All -

I have been recommended 1 and I am also looking at option 2 & 3:

Budget: $1200

1. HSU VTF-1 $400
4x Infinity P163: $340
1x Infinity PC251: $150
Yamaha A800: $400

2. Energy 5.1 Take Classic Home Theater System - $399

3. 4x Polk M10: $260
Polk PSW10 Subwoofer: $99
Polk Audio Monitor CS1: $100


I am new to this group. I currently have the following:


1. Sony KDL46W4150 [46'' LCD TV with 120 Hz Motionflow 1080p]
2. Sony DAV-HDX576WF [Sony Home Theatre System]
3. PS3
4. Wii
5. Time Warner Scientific Atlantica Cable Box &
6. Apple TV
7. iPod Classic


I am trying to replace the Home Theatre System.

My requirements are the following:

1. 5.1 Channel; with an option to expand to 7.1 at a later date
2. Good output for classical/blu ray audio
3. Wireless if possible
4. Not the big size speakers, looking for small footprint in the house [as I live in an apartment]
5. Living Room size - 13'x22'
5. I watch a lot of Blu Ray's and listen to a ton of classical, world music.



Thank you in advance for your advice!
Chintu

Hi All -

I have been recommended 1 and I am also looking at option 2 & 3:

Budget: $1200

1. HSU VTF-1 $400
4x Infinity P163: $340
1x Infinity PC251: $150
Yamaha A800: $400
Thank you in advance for your advice!
Chintu

Try to swing the 3 series Center Channel. World of difference. Especially if you listen to classical. You will not be disappointed.

Thank you for your help! Did you mean the Infinity PC351?

What do you think of the other channels? Is a HSU Sub vastly better than the Infinity Primus Subs themselves?

Also how does this setup compare to say a Polk or the Energy Take Classics?

My room size is - 13'x22'

Sorry for the many questions :)

Thank you for your help! Did you mean the Infinity PC351?

What do you think of the other channels? Is a HSU Sub vastly better than the Infinity Primus Subs themselves?

Also how does this setup compare to say a Polk or the Energy Take Classics?

My room size is - 13'x22'

Sorry for the many questions :)

yeah the pc351 is the big brother. It's been working great for me:)

hsu makes good subs, but I've been thinking about the X-ref 10 from emotiva. Looks like the deal's over though.

Do other P163 owners feel like the speaker is a little thin on the bottom end? I only got mine a few days ago so they aren't fully burned in yet but I'm wondering if my 50wpc Dayton dta-100a isn't powerful enough or maybe I'm just used to the exaggerated low end of the Audioengine A5s I had previously? I was hoping the larger 6.5" woofer would dig down deeper than those A5s but if anything the P163s seem to roll off earlier than my A5s which is disappointing.

Other than that, I am extremely impressed with the 163, especially considering I only paid around $80 each (Amazon) they work pretty well for nearfield, desktop use.

Caveat: I've never heard the A5s, but I own the P163s, and I used the P150s as a desktop setup before (now I use JBL Duet III). Anyway,

The published frequency reponse of the two models is quite similar:
50Hz-22kHz +/-1.5dB for the A5
49Hz - 20kHz +/- 3dB for the P163.

Still, I'm not surprised with your subjective impression. The A5s are just a better choice for your application. They are designed for desktop, nearfield use and benefit from tailored, internal amplifiers. No doubt their equalization has been optimized for thier targeted desktop application. The P163s, on the other hand, are designed to be listened to in the far field, when mounted on stands (bookshelf is just a tag). And, as a passive design, they don't benefit from EQ for a challenging application.
Also, both speakers are interacting uniquely with your desk, computer monitor and room to produce what you hear, particularly in the bass frequencies. I found my P153s needed to be lifted fairly high off the desk. My best results were with the tweeters at ear level and toe'd in. But, I get a more satisfying experience from the powered JBL Duet IIIs, and they are quite compact. I still would love a subwoofer, but not any more so than I did when used the P153s.

To give you an idea of how incomplete the minimal frequency response measurements listed above are, I compared the P163s with a pair of Infinity Beta 20s, which according to Infinity go to 52hz, =/-6dB! So, the P163s should have slightly deeper and flatter bass response. But, in my room they didn't, at least to my ears. I never measured them. To me, the P163s sounded exactly as you described a little thinner.

The P163s are great speakers. I've since upgraded at home, but I've held on to the P163s; just don't want to let them go yet. They offer very good measured performance, especially for the price. But, putting them on a desktop previously occupied by the A5s is asking them to excel at something they just were not designed for.

Another hypotheisis: the A5s are designed for desktop nearfield use. The tonal balance is probably intentionally skewed so the highs don't fry your ears. That is, the are voiced to be light on the treble, which sounds bass heavy. The P163s are fairly smooth on and off axis. Just a guess.

What do you think of the other channels? Is a HSU Sub vastly better than the Infinity Primus Subs themselves?

"vastly"? can't say that. The Primus subs are competent, but nothing to write home about. But, now that Infinity is basically factory direct (check out harmanaudio's ebay store for really cheap prices), Hsu's edge is less compelling. You should look at the published measurements and get the best your budget and room allows. I like the Infinity subs that have RABOS eq, but that's not available in the Primus subs. Also shop SVS. The sub forum can point you to other internet direct subs that offer great performance for the price.

Would wall-mounting it above the TV or laying it on its side be a viable option, or would that sacrifice sound quality? If neither of those is recommended, I should be able to adjust the TV upward on its mount, but we're pretty happy with the current viewing angle, so that would be the second choice.
I've also read conflicting information in speaker setup guides about whether the speakers should be positioned level to the floor or tilted down and aimed toward the listening position. What would you guys recommend?

The 163s will not give you good performance mounted on a wall or laying on the sides. Even though called "bookshelf" speakers, they are designed to be on stands, pulled away from walls, with the tweeter at ear level. All of your fronts should as close to the same ear level plane as possible. Surrounds are a matter of reasonable debate, but if you have them above ear level, they should not angle down.

For your application, I would go with wall mounted speakers or even quality in walls. If you like Infinity, the TSS series fits the bill.

Hi all -
I just cabbaged on to a pair of P362's nib.. for silly cheap. they sound so good out-of-the-box, I got to poking around on the www to see what I could find out about these. And thus I stumbled onto to this forum and thread.

More specifically I was looking to see if anybody has messed around with modifying/tweaking them. I think they are good enough to warrant some effort along these lines...

I have read the posts about cabinet resonance reduction/dampening, outrigger feet w/spikes, etc. But my real curiousity is with their crossover.
I "observe" via looking thru the port and on the Infinity parts website for these, that they have perhaps less than optimal parts in the crossovers - they appear to have all electrolytic caps. Anybody out here in the virtual world messed around with upgrading the caps or the entire crossover in the Primus'?

Hi all -
I just cabbaged on to a pair of P362's nib.. for silly cheap. they sound so good out-of-the-box, I got to poking around on the www to see what I could find out about these. And thus I stumbled onto to this forum and thread.

More specifically I was looking to see if anybody has messed around with modifying/tweaking them. I think they are good enough to warrant some effort along these lines...

I have read the posts about cabinet resonance reduction/dampening, outrigger feet w/spikes, etc. But my real curiousity is with their crossover.
I "observe" via looking thru the port and on the Infinity parts website for these, that they have perhaps less than optimal parts in the crossovers - they appear to have all electrolytic caps. Anybody out here in the virtual world messed around with upgrading the caps or the entire crossover in the Primus'?

It's a $150 speaker. Of course it has cheap crossovers!

The question is whether or not it's worth it to upgrade the components or just buy better speakers.

If you're handy and like to tinker though, I agree the drivers are good in these speakers and might be worth the effort.

Enjoy!

Anybody out here in the virtual world messed around with upgrading the caps or the entire crossover in the Primus'?

I have messed around with the speaker enclosure but understood the crossover to be a good unit. My understanding is that by messing with that crossover you can have the speaker sound the same or worse but not better.

It's a $150 speaker. Of course it has cheap crossovers!

The question is whether or not it's worth it to upgrade the components or just buy better speakers.

If you're handy and like to tinker though, I agree the drivers are good in these speakers and might be worth the effort.

Enjoy!

well... I have built a few speakers.. and I already have better speakers.. several pair - but a guy can never have too many pairs of speakers - since the perfect speaker does not exist! :)
However, having said that, it is always fun to see how far you can take a inexpensive model. Apparently the MMD driver's in these are exceptional units. I plan to tweak the cabinet bracing, dampening/resonance control, add some outrigger feet(so they don't tip over so easy) and do straight parts upgrades to the series capacitors in the tweet and mid circuits - good winter project and we'll just see what happens.

I'm pretty sure that there's a post or two somewhere in this thread that deals with upgrading the Primus, esp. the bracing, but not the XO. I even remember posting pictures here from another site. Primus has been and seems to remain the speaker value of the decade. Pity that Harman chooses to let their most famous audiophile brand wither away. Revel has apparently become the new Infinity, and JBL is still, uh, JBL?

The p363 is back on sale at Fry's for $199/pair this week, which from what I gather hasn't happened in quite a while. The SKU doesn't appear in their online system, but I called my local store and they said they have 18 pairs in stock.

The p363 is back on sale at Fry's for $199/pair this week, which from what I gather hasn't happened in quite a while. The SKU doesn't appear in their online system, but I called my local store and they said they have 18 pairs in stock.

Great price if you live near a Fry's. Deal seems to available only in the stores and not on-line

$200 for 2 p363's is a great deal.

I looked online as well and couldn't find anything but a 362 for $149. To bad a fry's was near me to check it out. :)

I would love to get them at that price. I called and it's for in store only. Wish someone could pick up for me and ship. :D

I would love to get them at that price. I called and it's for in store only. Wish someone could pick up for me and ship. :D

I was going to try to pick up a second pair for you, but by the time I got there on my lunch break, they had already sold through 17 pairs that morning and I got the very last one. Looks to be a popular deal :).

Now to audition head to head with a couple other speakers on my short list (Pioneer FS-51 and DefTech PM800... unfortunately the Jamo S606 isn't available anywhere locally).

I was going to try to pick up a second pair for you, but by the time I got there on my lunch break, they had already sold through 17 pairs that morning and I got the very last one. Looks to be a popular deal :).

Now to audition head to head with a couple other speakers on my short list (Pioneer FS-51 and DefTech PM800... unfortunately the Jamo S606 isn't available anywhere locally).

Wow thanks for trying. Enjoy your pair. Sweet deal like that I'm not surprised was gone quick. Looking forward for your feedback. Tx

Well... that was a quick and decisive audition. The 363s were just head and shoulders above my other candidates in clarity, richness, and overall commanding presence. That shouldn't be too much of a surprise given that their list price is 3-4x higher, but still I was shocked by just how much of a gap there was, particularly since it was over speakers that I really liked and had already chosen over several other possibilities. It was even enough to vault the WAF hurdle (minute 1: "Get those eighties-looking monstrosities out of my living room" ... minute 10: "Holy crap, we never have to go to the theater again.")

So looks I'm pretty much set on going the Primus route for my first system.

Now time to figure out the surrounds. Does the 153 represent enough of an upgrade to justify its extra size and price, or is the 143 good enough? And in either case, what would be a good price to watch for? I think I remember seeing them around $65 and $75 at multiple sites a couple months ago, but looking again now they've shot up quite a bit. I don't mind waiting a bit to get the best deal -- what's the lowest they typically drop to?

Similarly, I gather that the PC251 would be too weak to pair with the towers, and if I get a center it would have to be the 351. Things sound great running in 2.0 with a phantom center for the time being, so this is even less of a rush than the surrounds. The 351 is close to full price everywhere, but I'd like to have a sense of how low it can be expected to drop when on sale.

Thanks for any input!

Newegg has good prices on the 153 speakers.

Newegg has good prices on the 153 speakers.

Thanks for the tip! That deal seems to be so new that it doesn't even show up in the list on Google Shopping yet. Anyone know of other online retailers that will price-match with Newegg though? I'm hesitant to order from them after a previous bad experience, especially because unlike most places they have a no-refund policy and are in CA so have to charge sales tax.

Thanks for the tip! That deal seems to be so new that it doesn't even show up in the list on Google Shopping yet. Anyone know of other online retailers that will price-match with Newegg though? I'm hesitant to order from them after a previous bad experience, especially because unlike most places they have a no-refund policy and are in CA so have to charge sales tax.

Crutchfield has the P152 for a comparable price.

Coupon code 3A825 will save you an additional $20.

Putting my 360's ans p212 up on craig's list in NYC and struggling with what's fair price.

Thinking but might negotiate

360--$150-199 a pair--like new
p212-$150-175------- same

Comments?

Thanks

--Mike

Does the 153 represent enough of an upgrade to justify its extra size and price, or is the 143 good enough?Problem with the 143 is that they only go down to 100Hz, forcing you to cross over to your subwoofer at a high enough frequency that it might become localizable. By comparison, the 153 goes down to around 60Hz, giving you some flexibility (even below 80Hz) when crossing over to your sub.

I plan to tweak the cabinet bracing, dampening/resonance control, add some outrigger feet(so they don't tip over so easy) and do straight parts upgrades to the series capacitors in the tweet and mid circuits - good winter project and we'll just see what happens.
Very interested in the results. Please share if possible.

The 1911 is supposed to be a good receiver. Still, considering what the Primus are capable of, I hate to see people using cheap receivers with gutless amps. I'm *not* saying the 1911 is, just the many people in this thread are under-powering the larger Primus.

I know this isn't a receiver thread but I have a pair of p362's as surrounds, p363's as fronts and a pc350 center. It seems like most people cross at 80 or 60 while you run straight since you have a more powerful amp. I don't think I want to spend NAD T747 money on an amp but I am having a hard time comparing amps when everything just says 100 watts per channel (more or less). What am I looking for to find a less gutless amp than my Yamaha HTR-6240 which sounds fine crossed at 80.

I know this isn't a receiver thread but I have a pair of p362's as surrounds and p363's as fronts and a pc350 center. It seems like most people cross at 80 or 60 while you run straight since you have a more powerful amp. I don't think I want to spend NAD T747 money on an amp but I am having a hard time comparing amps when everything just says 100 watts per channel (more or less). What am I looking for to find a less gutless amp than my Yamaha HTR-6240 which sounds fine crossed at 80.

What's your budget? You can get a good deal if you pay attention to older models going on clearance from sites like slickdeals or buy a refurbished model from authorized dealers such accessories4less. Check ebay as well. I believe Harman Audio sells refurbished directly to consumers at ebay. Comes down to budget and options you are looking for.

A mid level receiver from Yahama, Marantz, Denon, HK, Onkyo should do be able to power those speakers easily.

What's your budget? You can get a good deal if you pay attention to older models going on clearance from sites like slickdeals or buy a refurbished model from authorized dealers such accessories4less. Check ebay as well. I believe Harman Audio sells refurbished directly to consumers at ebay. Comes down to budget and options you are looking for.

A mid level receiver from Yahama, Marantz, Denon, HK, Onkyo should do be able to power those speakers easily.

I am looking to spend $400 including shipping. I have done some basic research and the Onkyo TX-NR708 seems like a good bang for the buck receiver refurbed. I also saw the RC360 in the frys ad a few times is the NR708 that different besides the multi EQ?

I saw somewhere that the HK receivers make the video look softer. Has that been fixed?

The NR708 adds preamp outputs and the Audyssey MultiEQ.

The RC360 has the new Marvell QDEO video upscaler if that matters.

I saw somewhere that the HK receivers make the video look softer. Has that been fixed?

Nope.

I don't think you can turn off the video processing even on the latest units, either.

You can turn the video processing off, it's called 'HDMI Bypass'.

I have owned three versions of the latest HK receivers (AVR 354, 3550 and 3600) and none of them had a 'soft video look'.

I'm one hundred percent wrong then, as well as quite a few reviewers. I can't turn it off on my 247, but that's a much older model.

Thanks for setting me straight!

It's a $150 speaker. Of course it has cheap crossovers!

The question is whether or not it's worth it to upgrade the components or just buy better speakers.

If you're handy and like to tinker though, I agree the drivers are good in these speakers and might be worth the effort.



Are you sure about the crossovers? The major issue with the Primus speakers is the cabinet construction, not the drivers or the crossovers.

There's a whole write-up on Audioholics how to make them better. (Start by cutting off the magnetic shielding on each driver.)

There's a whole write-up on Audioholics how to make them better. (Start by cutting off the magnetic shielding on each driver.)
Link?

I saw somewhere that the HK receivers make the video look softer.
Nope.
I don't think you can turn off the video processing even on the latest units, either.

You can turn the video processing off, it's called 'HDMI Bypass'.

I have owned three versions of the latest HK receivers (AVR 354, 3550 and 3600) and none of them had a 'soft video look'.

After having my 363s for a few days, one of them has developed an issue. The upper 6.5" woofer started making a crackling noise when playing low sounds, which was more noticeable when the volume was higher, but still took place even at moderate volumes.

I took the grill off and found that even with the power off, a gentle tap on that woofer would make a loud rasping sound, as if it was rubbing against something in the housing. Gently pressing on the rubber rim, I was able to move it enough that the issue has gone away for now, but I expect it to return.

I hate to just return it, since there are no others in stock to exchange for. Any thoughts on whether this sounds like something that could be easily repaired if I got the right screwdriver to open it up? And whether it's likely caused by a defective unit or damage from something I did? I gave it 20 hours of break-in time before really turning up the volume, and when I did I never went past the loud but hardly ear-shattering level of -25 db.

After having my 363s for a few days, one of them has developed an issue. The upper 6.5" woofer started making a crackling noise when playing low sounds, which was more noticeable when the volume was higher, but still took place even at moderate volumes.

I took the grill off and found that even with the power off, a gentle tap on that woofer would make a loud rasping sound, as if it was rubbing against something in the housing. Gently pressing on the rubber rim, I was able to move it enough that the issue has gone away for now, but I expect it to return.

I hate to just return it, since there are no others in stock to exchange for. Any thoughts on whether this sounds like something that could be easily repaired if I got the right screwdriver to open it up? And whether it's likely caused by a defective unit or damage from something I did? I gave it 20 hours of break-in time before really turning up the volume, and when I did I never went past the loud but hardly ear-shattering level of -25 db.

Sounds damaged. Swap it out.

I know this isn't a receiver thread but I have a pair of p362's as surrounds, p363's as fronts and a pc350 center. It seems like most people cross at 80 or 60 while you run straight since you have a more powerful amp. I don't think I want to spend NAD T747 money on an amp but I am having a hard time comparing amps when everything just says 100 watts per channel (more or less). What am I looking for to find a less gutless amp than my Yamaha HTR-6240 which sounds fine crossed at 80.

What is your listening distance? The Crown calculator (http://www.crownaudio.com/apps_htm/designtools/elect-pwr-req.htm)can help you decide how much power you need/want. The only parameter that requires discretion is how much headroom you want and how loud you want the system to play.

I recently embarked on the same amp/receiver journey. Most manufacturer specs are piss poor. Harman Kardon, NAD, and Cambridge Audio are ones I know of that disclose honest, real world power ratings. Each of these brands' current recevier lines have downsides, IMO. It all depends on what features you need. If you need more than 60 watts per channel continuous, you may want to consider finding the cheapest receiver you can that has all of the features you want, then pick up a used external multichannel amp on Audiogon.

Home Theater (http://www.hometheater.com)as well as Sound and Vision (http://www.soundandvisionmag.com) magazines publish recevier test data on their websites. That's an easy way to determine how realistic the manufacturer power ratings are.

Primus 153 and 143 are back on sale at NewEgg for less than a benjamin per pair:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100008225%2050011803%20600030005&IsNodeId=1&name=Infinity%20Entertainment%20Group

Hi guys - I recently purchased a pair of Primus 360 speakers off craigslist, but one of the tweeters isn't working.

So, I switched out the speaker and the same issue exists! I'm not sure if it's possible for the receiver to cause this problem, any help diagnosing the problem will be much appreciated.

Thanks

Hi guys - I recently purchased a pair of Primus 360 speakers off craigslist, but one of the tweeters isn't working.

So, I switched out the speaker and the same issue exists! I'm not sure if it's possible for the receiver to cause this problem, any help diagnosing the problem will be much appreciated.

Thanks

Might be a problem with the crossover. If you switch left and right and even change the tweeter and it still does not work, probably something in the crossover. You could probably take a meter to it and isolate the component if you are up to it, or at least check to make sure that the connections are good on the xover.

How are the 253's? I found a real good deal on them and don't know allot about infinity.I am looking clean and accurate and natural sounding.Thanks

After having my 363s for a few days, one of them has developed an issue. The upper 6.5" woofer started making a crackling noise when playing low sounds, which was more noticeable when the volume was higher, but still took place even at moderate volumes.

I took the grill off and found that even with the power off, a gentle tap on that woofer would make a loud rasping sound, as if it was rubbing against something in the housing. Gently pressing on the rubber rim, I was able to move it enough that the issue has gone away for now, but I expect it to return.

I hate to just return it, since there are no others in stock to exchange for. Any thoughts on whether this sounds like something that could be easily repaired if I got the right screwdriver to open it up? And whether it's likely caused by a defective unit or damage from something I did? I gave it 20 hours of break-in time before really turning up the volume, and when I did I never went past the loud but hardly ear-shattering level of -25 db.

Sorry, this is a bit late. I had the exact same thing happen with one of my towers (different manufacturer). It wasn't noticeable at first, but gradually I became aware that something was wrong. Called the dealer and was told the most likely explanation was that the voice coil had been knocked out of position during shipment. They sent a replacement woofer and I installed it, problem solved.

Tools required were a screwdriver, wire cutters and a soldering iron.

Might be a problem with the crossover. If you switch left and right and even change the tweeter and it still does not work, probably something in the crossover. You could probably take a meter to it and isolate the component if you are up to it, or at least check to make sure that the connections are good on the xover.

Switched L/R speakers and the issue is following that particular speaker. How difficult is it to replace the crossover?

I've been looking for a PC350 or PC351 to go with my pair of 362s. I'm looking at a PC350 at $160 + $10 s/h right now. But I was hoping to get down to $150 shipped. Possibly I can wait for the next years model and the PC351 will drop to my range. Do these get discounted often?

Is it worth the long wait for next years model to debut to save $10-20? $160 is a good price for that center. You might be waiting until next spring or summer.

That's why I'm asking if they go on sale often,so I could decide whether to move on this. Last week the lowest I could find was $200. A few months ago the 350 could be found for $150. That dealzon deal was nuts, too bad I missed it.

When I got the 362s, I just waited until Frys had them at $149ea. From the posts I read here at the time, that seemed like a likely deal to return. So I'm looking for a deal on this, and need to decide if this is it

Anyone have the link on how to mod the Primus speakers??

That's why I'm asking if they go on sale often,so I could decide whether to move on this. Last week the lowest I could find was $200. A few months ago the 350 could be found for $150. That dealzon deal was nuts, too bad I missed it.

When I got the 362s, I just waited until Frys had them at $149ea. From the posts I read here at the time, that seemed like a likely deal to return. So I'm looking for a deal on this, and need to decide if this is it

Maybe this helps you, maybe not. When I upgraded to the PC350 years ago, I was kicking myself for not having done it sooner. I don't know if you are using a significantly smaller center, but if you are, I bet you will love the bigger 350. Most of a movie soundtrack is routed to the center channel. It's arguably the key speaker in multichannel surround setups.

Anyone have the link on how to mod the Primus speakers??

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/diy-corner-tips-techniques/46286-primus-360-mod.html

Looks like that link no longer has pictures. I remember posting a link a couple years ago in this thread where somebody actually added additional bracing. Let me look.

See page 82 of this thread for Mod information. Still looking for the bracing pics. So somebody may have added bracing, but these pics are about adding stands and spikes.

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z281/gregsgoatfarm/infinity/Spikesinstalled.jpg

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z281/gregsgoatfarm/infinity/Disassembled.jpg

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z281/gregsgoatfarm/infinity/Completeview2.jpg

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z281/gregsgoatfarm/infinity/Completeview1.jpg

Hey guys,

I got the P363's when they were having that $100 deal at Frye's a month or so ago. I am now looking to complete my system with the center channel and the rears. I remember seeing the PC351 and P163's being on sale for a little while but I was just learning about home speakers at that time and didn't know how good of a deal that was. Anyone know if the P163's and PC351 are going to go on sale again any time soon? I seem to remember the P163's being $85 or something like that. I don't remember how much the PC351 was.

If no sale is in sight, are there other options for a center and rears to go along with my P363's or would it be best to sell the P363's and start over to match the front three speakers?

Thanks!

Hey guys,

I got the P363's when they were having that $100 deal at Frye's a month or so ago. I am now looking to complete my system with the center channel and the rears. I remember seeing the PC351 and P163's being on sale for a little while but I was just learning about home speakers at that time and didn't know how good of a deal that was. Anyone know if the P163's and PC351 are going to go on sale again any time soon? I seem to remember the P163's being $85 or something like that. I don't remember how much the PC351 was.

If no sale is in sight, are there other options for a center and rears to go along with my P363's or would it be best to sell the P363's and start over to match the front three speakers?

Thanks!
I would just buy the PC350 and the P162 from Crutchfield.

You won't notice the difference unless you take the speaker grill off.

Hey guys,

I got the P363's when they were having that $100 deal at Frye's a month or so ago. I am now looking to complete my system with the center channel and the rears. I remember seeing the PC351 and P163's being on sale for a little while but I was just learning about home speakers at that time and didn't know how good of a deal that was. Anyone know if the P163's and PC351 are going to go on sale again any time soon? I seem to remember the P163's being $85 or something like that. I don't remember how much the PC351 was.

If no sale is in sight, are there other options for a center and rears to go along with my P363's or would it be best to sell the P363's and start over to match the front three speakers?

Thanks!

They used to have good deals on refurbs via the Harman store on E-bay. I haven't seen those deals in awhile lately. :(

I would just buy the PC350 and the P162 from Crutchfield.

You won't notice the difference unless you take the speaker grill off.

Thanks for the idea! Is there any real difference, musically or hardware wise, between the PC351 and the PC350 or was it just cosmetic differences?

Is there any real difference, musically or hardware wise, between the PC351 and the PC350 or was it just cosmetic differences?

The consensus is that there were only cosmetic changes between the different model years.

Maybe this helps you, maybe not. When I upgraded to the PC350 years ago, I was kicking myself for not having done it sooner. I don't know if you are using a significantly smaller center, but if you are, I bet you will love the bigger 350. Most of a movie soundtrack is routed to the center channel. It's arguably the key speaker in multichannel surround setups.

PC350 will be under the tree for me. I only have the pair of P362s right now. I spent a bunch of time hunting for the lowest price and found it for $160. I email my wife so she doesn't buy me something I don't want. Then she buys it from Crutchfield for $200, LOL. oh well,

PC350 will be under the tree for me. I only have the pair of P362s right now. I spent a bunch of time hunting for the lowest price and found it for $160. I email my wife so she doesn't buy me something I don't want. Then she buys it from Crutchfield for $200, LOL. oh well,

Do you mind sharing where you found it for $160? :)

OK guys, so here is my setup if I purchase the 162's for the rears and the PC350 for the center:

Receiver: probably the Onkyo NR709
Fronts: P363
Center: PC350
Rears: P162
Sub: probably the SVS PB12-NSD

Question 1: Will my receiver choice be enough to drive my speaker combo close to or at reference levels or should I be looking at an amplifier?

Question 2: Am I OK getting the 162's for the rears or is there any benefit, other than saving $10, in going with the 152's?

Question 3: Is my sub choice overkill?

thanks!

PS - Room is 16x13x8 and it's for 90% movies/tv

No such thing as sub overkill. Small subs generally are incapable of producing the lowest frequencies, no matter what room they're in. There are exceptions, but it will cost you. Your choice of the SVS will reward you. And if you ever move to a larger space it will be able to keep up. Stick with the 162s. They're worth the extra 10 bucks. That system will put a huge grin on your face. Guaranteed.

Question 1: Will my receiver choice be enough to drive my speaker combo close to or at reference levels or should I be looking at an amplifier?
PS - Room is 16x13x8 and it's for 90% movies/tv

How far from the speakers will you be sitting? See this (http://www.crownaudio.com/apps_htm/designtools/elect-pwr-req.htm)calculator to determine how much power you really need. My room is longer than yours and 55 watts gets me to approximately 85 dB with a little headroom (sure, I’d like more).

Question 2: Am I OK getting the 162's for the rears or is there any benefit, other than saving $10, in going with the 152's?

I would use the 162 if space allows (they are designed to be mounted on stands, not wall mounted). You can cross them over lower than the 152s, though it probably doesn't matter much. Doesn't most discrete multichannel material send the lower frequencies to the sub anyway, regardless of your crossover point? Do you upmix stereo sources to surround? Maybe worth checking whether ProLogic IIx, for example, limits the range sent to the surrounds.

Also, volume seems to be a priority for you, and the 162s are slightly more efficient than the 152s (90 vs. 88 dBs). That alone would be worth the $10 to me.

Question 3: Is my sub choice overkill?
Maybe. On the one hand, is there anyone here who really wishes they had LESS bass extension in their system? There may be some that say they would like less bass output, but even that seems a stretch. You said reference level, right?!

The only situation I can think of where you might want less output is because of a particularly nasty room mode that is ruining the listening experience (it's not uncommon). Bass will likely be unnatural in your room due to modes. I use to have a big 15" (?) Paradigm sub that at times I thought was too much for my room. Certain frequencies were a lot louder and would rattle the walls terribly. I got a smaller 12 inch Infinity with R.A.B.O.S. equalization. I plotted the significant bass peak and was able to attenuate and narrow it quite a bit. That's when I realized the issue was not the sub itself, but the interaction of the sub and my room. A less powerful sub would not have been as noticeable, but that wouldn't have been necessarily better, right?

Your receiver has Audyssey; maybe someone with knowledge of that EQ can chime in. My Anthem receiver has room correction that totally smoothed the subwoofer response, seemingly resolving the issue. So, I wish I had that bigger Paradigm back!

Good luck and enjoy--looks like a fun setup.

The only situation I can think of where you might want less output is because of a particularly nasty room mode that is ruining the listening experience (it's not uncommon). Bass will likely be unnatural in your room due to modes. I use to have a big 15" (?) Paradigm sub that at times I thought was too much for my room. Certain frequencies were a lot louder and would rattle the walls terribly. I got a smaller 12 inch Infinity with R.A.B.O.S. equalization. I plotted the significant bass peak and was able to attenuate and narrow it quite a bit. That's when I realized the issue was not the sub itself, but the interaction of the sub and my room. A less powerful sub would not have been as noticeable, but that wouldn't have been necessarily better, right?


Precisely. It definitely would not have been better. Sub size has nothing to do with room interaction unless you want so little bass that the room itself doesn't become a factor. Rabos works for many, me included. And again sub output doesn't necessarily mean loudness, so much as extension. Can anyone here think of a sub that will play flat to 20Hz but only at 80dB? Nobody builds that sort of equipment today. But all subs need equalization for the room they're in. I'm old school using BFD.

How far from the speakers will you be sitting? See this (http://www.crownaudio.com/apps_htm/designtools/elect-pwr-req.htm)calculator to determine how much power you really need. My room is longer than yours and 55 watts gets me to approximately 85 dB with a little headroom (sure, I’d like more).

I will be about 14 feet from the TV and front speakers. The 13 dimension is how wide the room is. I did the calculations and it appears that I should have plenty of wattage to have a nice sound. Even if the amp in the NR709 is a little over-rated from Onkyo


I would use the 162 if space allows (they are designed to be mounted on stands, not wall mounted). You can cross them over lower than the 152s, though it probably doesn't matter much. Doesn't most discrete multichannel material send the lower frequencies to the sub anyway, regardless of your crossover point? Do you upmix stereo sources to surround? Maybe worth checking whether ProLogic IIx, for example, limits the range sent to the surrounds.

Also, volume seems to be a priority for you, and the 162s are slightly more efficient than the 152s (90 vs. 88 dBs). That alone would be worth the $10 to me.

Awesome! I was thinking of using the 162's for rears right now and possibly using them as a front stage for a bedroom system if/when I outgrow this system or have the need to spend money for no reason. I plan on getting something like this (http://www.crutchfield.com/p_051BF31B/Sanus-BF31B-Speaker-Stands.html?tp=1947) for stands unless someone has a better idea.


Maybe. On the one hand, is there anyone here who really wishes they had LESS bass extension in their system? There may be some that say they would like less bass output, but even that seems a stretch. You said reference level, right?!

The only situation I can think of where you might want less output is because of a particularly nasty room mode that is ruining the listening experience (it's not uncommon). Bass will likely be unnatural in your room due to modes. I use to have a big 15" (?) Paradigm sub that at times I thought was too much for my room. Certain frequencies were a lot louder and would rattle the walls terribly. I got a smaller 12 inch Infinity with R.A.B.O.S. equalization. I plotted the significant bass peak and was able to attenuate and narrow it quite a bit. That's when I realized the issue was not the sub itself, but the interaction of the sub and my room. A less powerful sub would not have been as noticeable, but that wouldn't have been necessarily better, right?

Your receiver has Audyssey; maybe someone with knowledge of that EQ can chime in. My Anthem receiver has room correction that totally smoothed the subwoofer response, seemingly resolving the issue. So, I wish I had that bigger Paradigm back!

Good luck and enjoy--looks like a fun setup.

Thanks!

The 709 will be perfect to push those speakers at loud (reference) levels. The SVS PC-12 is a great sub. You are correct in that there is no such thing as "overkill" with owning a sub (or subs). The "over kill" occurs with the setting and tune of the sub. Sounds like you have a great set-up!! Pun intended.

I'm old school using BFD.

What's BFD???

What's BFD???

Not sure, but I'm guessing Behringer Feedback Destroyer

Yes, Behringer Feedback Destroyer. It is often used to cut peaks found in subwoofers and their inherent interaction with a room.

Other than the color, is there a difference between the models P163 & P162, P322 & P363 etc?
Not a big fan of the silver but the cost savings can be pretty significant.

Other than the color, is there a difference between the models P163 & P162, P322 & P363 etc?
Not a big fan of the silver but the cost savings can be pretty significant.

I was told (and read on many other posts afterwards) that they are mechanically the same. I didn't want to lose out on getting the P163/P162 for $85 so I just ordered mine last night. Same goes for the PC351/PC350. I don't like the silver color as much but with the grill on it should make zero difference.

My setup:
Fronts: P363's
Center: PC350
Rears: P162's
Sub: haven't 100% decided yet

I was told (and read on many other posts afterwards) that they are mechanically the same. I didn't want to lose out on getting the P163/P162 for $85 so I just ordered mine last night. Same goes for the PC351/PC350. I don't like the silver color as much but with the grill on it should make zero difference.

My setup:
Fronts: P363's
Center: PC350
Rears: P162's
Sub: haven't 100% decided yet

Where'd you order them for $85?

Where'd you order them for $85?

Well, I got the P363's from Frye's when they had them for $99 each. I just ordered the P162's from Crutchfield for $85 and the PC350 from Crutchfield for $199. I am going to guess that this system is going to be nearly impossible for me to beat for the $570 I spent on it so far.

I got a chance to hear the P363's at Frye's when I went to go look at them and they sounded awesome! I can't wait to get them set up in my house.

I can't wait to get them set up in my house.

You will NOT be disappointed. I have a pair of Revel F52s and they are pretty close to them in terms of sound quality. They Revels best the Infinities in every way, but not 30 times better (the price differential I paid for the two sets). If I had to put a number to it, I'd say they are in the neighborhood of 70% the quality of the Revels.

They were MUCH better than the $1K - $3K speakers I auditioned. To be fair, I listened to the Primus in my room which is well treated vs. the high dollar speakers at the stores. I auditioned speakers from B&W, Martin Logan ($8K a pair just for kicks), Sonus Faber, Vienna Acoustics, Def Tech, Thiel and a few others. The Martin Logans were close to the Revel F52s in terms of quality, but then again, I would hope so for $8K a pair. The only other speaker that were better than the Primus P363 was the Thiels. The others weren't even close.

Even though they are not as good as my Revels, they still put a huge grin on my face knowing I only paid $235 for the pair for such a well performing set of speakers. :D Had I never heard My Revels, I would have been perfectly happy with these Primuses. I would also be a whole lot better off financially. :o

They were MUCH better than the $1K - $3K speakers I auditioned. To be fair, I listened to the Primus in my room which is well treated vs. the high dollar speakers at the stores.

I test drove a Ford Escort the other day and it was much better than the Porsche 911 I drove. To be fair, I drove the Escort on a private track with no other traffic vs. the Porsche in downtown New York during rush hour.

I test drove a Ford Escort the other day and it was much better than the Porsche 911 I drove. To be fair, I drove the Escort on a private track with no other traffic vs. the Porsche in downtown New York during rush hour.

Well, a couple of the rooms I listened to were also treated and the only two speakers I liked, the Thiel and the Martin Logans, were on the showroom floor with a giant glass pane behind them. So your analogy does not really hold much water. :rolleyes:

Also of note, the performance numbers of the Porsche 911 vs. the Ford Escort does not support your analogy while the measurements of the Primus will show it will perform as well or better than speakers many times their retail price.

Let's keep it real here, huh?

I have a pair of P162's and I like them very much for what they are. For the price, they perform very well and sound surprisingly good and refined. But seriously, they are $170/pair.

For grins, after I got them (and burned them in for 24 hours), I did a little 3-way to see how they stack up. I level matched my P162's with my Def Tech Sm450's and a pair of Mackie HR624's I borrowed from my neighbor.

The result? No comparison. The Infinity's didn't sound bad, but they were clearly outclassed by the other pairs in almost every way - imaging, soundstage, dynamics.

EDIT: My review can be found on page 97 of this thread.

http://cdn.head-fi.org/5/59/5975262a_p162vdeftech.jpeg

I think the P162's would be fine for an office or bedroom system, and are a great choice for surround speakers. I use my P162's at my office as a low volume desktop system and am perfectly happy with them.

http://cdn.head-fi.org/8/8e/8e27d84f_p162hangar.jpeg

Let's keep it real here, huh?

I have a pair of P162's and I like them very much for what they are. For the price, they perform very well and sound surprisingly good and refined. But seriously, they are $170/pair.

For grins, after I got them (and burned them in for 24 hours), I did a little 3-way to see how they stack up. I level matched my P162's with my Def Tech Sm450's and a pair of Mackie HR624's I borrowed from my neighbor.

The result? No comparison. The Infinity's didn't sound bad, but they were clearly outclassed by the other pairs in every way - imaging, soundstage, refinement, dynamics.
http://cdn.head-fi.org/5/59/5975262a_p162vdeftech.jpeg

I think the P162's would be fine for an office or bedroom system, and are a great choice for surround speakers. I use my P162's at my office as a low volume desktop system and am perfectly happy with them.

http://cdn.head-fi.org/8/8e/8e27d84f_p162hangar.jpeg

First off, the P162 and the P363 are totally different animals. Your experience with the P162 cannot infer a qualified judgment of the P363. Second, I think your testing method is flawed. You place the speakers one on top of the other. You put the P162 where (I assume) you had carefully placed your original Def Techs for best imaging. Not all speakers will perform their best in the same places. Third, isn't sound preferences exactly that? A subjective preference?

I am not going to argue whether or not you are wrong or right in what you prefer. That is your preference. I was merely giving my impressions and experiences. Not sure if you are a Def Tech fanboy since you own a set, but I apologize if I hurt your feelings when I said I prefer these $100 Infinities over the $2K Def Techs. Dipoles or bipoles (whichever they are) are just not my cup of tea for mains. I just could not find a good position in the demo room for them to sound remotely good to me.

First off, the P162 and the P363 are totally different animals. Your experience with the P162 cannot infer a qualified judgment of the P363. Second, I think your testing method is flawed. You place the speakers one on top of the other. You put the P162 where (I assume) you had carefully placed your original Def Techs for best imaging. Not all speakers will perform their best in the same places. Third, isn't sound preferences exactly that? A subjective preference?

I am not going to argue whether or not you are wrong or right in what you prefer. That is your preference. I was merely giving my impressions and experiences. Not sure if you are a Def Tech fanboy since you own a set, but I apologize if I hurt your feelings when I said I prefer these $100 Infinities over the $2K Def Techs. Dipoles or bipoles (whichever they are) are just not my cup of tea for mains. I just could not find a good position in the demo room for them to sound remotely good to me.

No, not totally different. They share the same woofer and tweeter, same crossover, and same cabinet construction. But I think it's valid to compare like with like. In your case, tower vs. tower and in mine, bookshelf vs. bookshelf.

I switched the positions so all three speakers had a chance to "be on top" so to speak.

I'm simply pointing out that in the same room, driven by the same amp, and listening to the same music selections at the same volume, my P162's revealed their budget origins.

Again, I'm not saying they are a bad speaker - quite the contrary. I like them. I'm also not discounting your experience, just pointing out that mine was different and explaining why I believe what I do.

Let's keep it real here, huh?

I have a pair of P162's and I like them very much for what they are. For the price, they perform very well and sound surprisingly good and refined. But seriously, they are $170/pair.

You appear to be running a two speaker system. Take into consideration that the Infinity speakers as well as Revel are owned by Harmon and that Infinity routinely tests any speaker against others that are more than 10X as much, retail.

For grins, after I got them (and burned them in for 24 hours), I did a little 3-way to see how they stack up. I level matched my P162's with my Def Tech Sm450's and a pair of Mackie HR624's I borrowed from my neighbor.

That doesn't prove much because many users do not have multiple systems set up's. In a properly setup 5.1 or 7.1 system, the P162s will do just fine - that means that you run a center and that is the dominant speaker in the front three array of LCR. If you listen carefully in a calibrated home theater system, like Audyssey, the output in db's is reduced for the fronts which means that your expensive fronts are no longer dominant in the front three speaker array.

The result? No comparison. The Infinity's didn't sound bad, but they were clearly outclassed by the other pairs in almost every way - imaging, soundstage, dynamics.

Not really in a 5.1 or 7.1 home theater system. Unlike a 2 speaker system, you can get lateral imaging to the front speakers in a 5.1 or 7.1 system and a wider sound field.

I agree that home theater is more forgiving than stereo. Depth, imaging, and dynamics are less important because all 5.1 speakers work together and cover for each other somewhat.

Yes, I come from a music background. For me, my speakers (in my stereo system and home theater) must first and foremost be the best they can be with music. I figure if they handle music well, they'll be OK with movies.

For example, I don't have separate subwoofers in my home theater. My towers are full-range and have terrific weight, speed, and punch with music. OTOH, movie enthusiasts would find the LFE lacking in my home because they don't rumble and rattle the walls.

Different strokes...

I seriously suggest that you get your hands on a copy of Floyd Toole's book: Sound Reproduction. Toole is a consultant for Harmon, but was instrumental in the design of the current Infinity speakers and that includes the Primus line. There is a lot to learn from a two channel stereo background. And I use to be one of those two channel aficionados before going into a more than two speaker home theater system.

I seriously suggest that you get your hands on a copy of Floyd Toole's book: Sound Reproduction. Toole is a consultant for Harmon, but was instrumental in the design of the current Infinity speakers and that includes the Primus line. There is a lot to learn from a two channel stereo background. And I use to be one of those two channel aficionados before going into a more than two speaker home theater system.

Yes, I have been a 2-channel enthusiast for 40 years.

And I realize that I still have a lot to learn about home theater. In fact, I didn't put together my first multi-channel home theater until 1999.

That system was a 5.1 setup with a 52" Sony 1080i RPTV, Denon 5.1 AVR, five Cambridge Soundworks satellites, and a Polk Audio subwoofer. Back in those days, I set speaker distance with a tape measure and used a Radio Shack SPL meter to set each channel level. To enjoy hi-resolution surround audio back then, I ran multi-channel analog RCA cables from my universal disc player and used the player's rudimentary bass management menu. Thankfully, things are much improved today...

My current home theater, which I put together 2 years ago, is much better than that old dinosaur (both audio and video) thanks largely to HDMI. Speaker setup and calibration was handled automatically by my AVR then fine tuned by my ears. I still enjoy multi-channel music, only these days I either watch lossless audio BluRay concerts or listen to SACD via bitstream DSD. My front L/R speakers are full-range powered towers with built-in subwoofers so I can enjoy 2-channel music on this system without the hassles of bass management. The beauty of this system is that when I want to listen to multi-channel music or watch movies, my towers are also connected to my AVR via LFE cables and I cross my center and surround speakers to the towers at the THX standard 80Hz. It's the best of both worlds - I can switch from 2-channel lossless audio with no bass management to a DTS-HD Master Audio surround movie without pushing a single button - well OK, I have to hit eject once to switch discs...;)

This is the reason why I think home theater speakers should be of the same caliber as stereo speakers. Truth be told, I personally believe that only the front 3 speakers need to be of high quality - the surrounds don't really need to work too hard and you can get away with lesser speakers in back. Basically, I think that a speaker that is well suited to music is guaranteed to be well suited to home theater, while the reverse is not always true. At least, that's my opinion.

I will definitely check out that book you recommended. I'm pretty passionate about audio and am always interested in learning more about it.

http://www.amazon.com/Sound-Reproduction-Acoustics-Psychoacoustics-Loudspeakers/dp/0240520092/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1322904026&sr=1-1

Anyone here upgraded FROM their Infinity PRIMUS speakers are were happy with their decision? What did you get?

I ask this, because it seems it would take a lot more $$$ to compete with the value of the Primus. I am sure a few have tried to "upgrade" and have been disappointed.

Anyone here upgraded FROM their Infinity PRIMUS speakers are were happy with their decision? What did you get?

I ask this, because it seems it would take a lot more $$$ to compete with the value of the Primus. I am sure a few have tried to "upgrade" and have been disappointed.

Yes, Infinity Cascade's. Not in the least disappointed.

Anyone here upgraded FROM their Infinity PRIMUS speakers are were happy with their decision? What did you get?

I ask this, because it seems it would take a lot more $$$ to compete with the value of the Primus. I am sure a few have tried to "upgrade" and have been disappointed.

First, from the P162 to the Beta 20 (~200 refurb.), then to the Revel M22 ($1200 gently used).

Beta 20 was a minor upgrade. I liked the larger CMMD tweeter better, but I have nothing objective to back that up. M22 was then a bit more of an upgrade, but not dramatic. They seem smoother off axis as I am getting more detail from my sidewall reflections and the perception of a wider soundstage. I think publically available measurements back that up.

http://www.amazon.com/Sound-Reproduction-Acoustics-Psychoacoustics-Loudspeakers/dp/0240520092/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1322904026&sr=1-1

Ditto, this is essential reading. It's also an entertaining read from one of the most influential scientists in loudspeaker and room acoustics.

Palmfish, one thing you'll learn about is the danger of running towers full range. The front left and right have optimal positions for stereo imaging. The subwoofer(s) have optimal positions to minimize (or maximize) interaction with standing waves. Not always, but often in small rooms, these locations do NOT coincide. Freeing the lower frequencies from the front and left boxes is one solution.

Palmfish, one thing you'll learn about is the danger of running towers full range. The front left and right have optimal positions for stereo imaging. The subwoofer(s) have optimal positions to minimize (or maximize) interaction with standing waves. Not always, but often in small rooms, these locations do NOT coincide. Freeing the lower frequencies from the front and left boxes is one solution.

I wouldn't say that running towers full-range is "dangerous." There are advantages and disadvantages with both full-range towers and sat/sub systems. For me, full-range towers were the better choice.

Ditto, this is essential reading. It's also an entertaining read from one of the most influential scientists in loudspeaker and room acoustics.

I've ordered the book but haven't received it yet. I have read his white papers though...

In his papers, he seems to basically be saying that measured frequency response is a good predictor of consumer preference. A speaker, regardless of price, that exhibits a smooth response is usually preferred in double-blind listening tests to even a much more expensive speaker that has less smooth response (freq spikes, coloration, resonances, etc.).

This certainly explains why the Primus sounds so good. And there is obviously a lot of engineering and trickle down technology from the higher end Harmon lines.

I agree with this 100%, and like I've said, that's probably why I like my P162's so much and agree with all of the glowing "professional" reviews I've read about them (which influenced me to buy them in the first place).

That said, there is a reason why the Primus speakers are so inexpensive - being made in China is part of it, but also the compromises in parts and manufacturing. These compromises were intelligently made to preserve the inherent goodness, but they are there.

Now my original comments were in the context of someone comparing the sound of a Primus in his home to his recollection of the sound of a B&W in a store. I'm certain that even Floyd Toole would see the fallacy of such a comparison. When I was shopping for headphones over the summer, switching back and forth from one to another, it was hard to remember the finer details of sound for 10 seconds, let alone 10 hours (or 10 days)!

My comparison may not have been ideal (double blind behind a curtain with motorized floor), but it was valid. I was able to pick out the Infinity from the Def Tech and Mackie every time with my neighbor switching between them out of view. FWIW, he was able to identify them too.

I know there's more to his ideas than just frequency response and blind testing and I'm looking forward to reading his book. I wish he had identified the expensive poseurs he used in his testing - that would be fun to read...

I wouldn't say that running towers full-range is "dangerous." There are advantages and disadvantages with both full-range towers and sat/sub systems. For me, full-range towers were the better choice.

Dangerous was probably an overstatement as there is no likelihood of anything blowing up. The proper words should have been that full range speakers in a 5.1 or more home theater system are not optimal in terms of audio for the reasons that have already been cited.

Dangerous was probably an overstatement as there is no likelihood of anything blowing up. The proper words should have been that full range speakers in a 5.1 or more home theater system are not optimal in terms of audio for the reasons that have already been cited.

Yes, that would have been more accurate. However, there is no restriction to using subwoofers AND full-range towers in a 5.1 system. I personally don't, but there are many people who do.

Now my original comments were in the context of someone comparing the sound of a Primus in his home to his recollection of the sound of a B&W in a store. I'm certain that even Floyd Toole would see the fallacy of such a comparison. When I was shopping for headphones over the summer, switching back and forth from one to another, it was hard to remember the finer details of sound for 10 seconds, let alone 10 hours (or 10 days)!

I believe you were referring to me. First off, while I agree with you my methodology for comparison is faulty (I'm not about to purchase all those speakers to do a shootout in home nor am I going to lug my speakers to the shop to do it), your use of the word fallacy is incorrect. A fallacy is an incorrect argument or misconception. How can a preference be incorrect?

Second, I can agree with you that the finer details can be forgotten or incorrectly remembered, but I assure you the differences were not even remotely what I would consider subtle. Unless you would consider the difference (to use your car analogy) between the ride comfort of a Ford Model T and a new BMW subtle. I don't think one needs to do a side by side comparison within a short amount of time to be reasonably able to note the differences. I'm not saying there was that much of a difference, but it is big enough to not even question which is better sounding to me.

I had my friends over this weekend to listen to the speakers over the weekend. These were the same two who went with me to all my auditions a couple years ago. One is also a long time audio aficionado and the other an average person who knows nothing about high quality audio. Without telling them anything about the speakers, they had the same observations. The Infinity had a much better sound to them than all the other speakers we auditioned save the Thiel and Martin Logans (note those two were in the exact same room as the B&Ws). I should also note, I did not calibrate my receiver nor go through trouble of finding the best placement for the Infinity either. Just placed them right next to my existing Revels so I didn't have to run new wiring and turned of all AVR sound processing.

If you care to check, do a search for speaker measurements of the Infinity Primus frequency response and off axis response then compare them to those of the B&Ws in the $1.5K - $3K range and you find that they (Primus) measure better than the B&Ws and many other "high end" speaker brands out there.

I believe you were referring to me. First off, while I agree with you my methodology for comparison is faulty (I'm not about to purchase all those speakers to do a shootout in home nor am I going to lug my speakers to the shop to do it), your use of the word fallacy is incorrect. A fallacy is an incorrect argument or misconception. How can a preference be incorrect?

Second, I can agree with you that the finer details can be forgotten or incorrectly remembered, but I assure you the differences were not even remotely what I would consider subtle. Unless you would consider the difference (to use your car analogy) between the ride comfort of a Ford Model T and a new BMW subtle. I don't think one needs to do a side by side comparison within a short amount of time to be reasonably able to note the differences. I'm not saying there was that much of a difference, but it is big enough to not even question which is better sounding to me.

I had my friends over this weekend to listen to the speakers over the weekend. These were the same two who went with me to all my auditions a couple years ago. One is also a long time audio aficionado and the other an average person who knows nothing about high quality audio. Without telling them anything about the speakers, they had the same observations. The Infinity had a much better sound to them than all the other speakers we auditioned save the Thiel and Martin Logans (note those two were in the exact same room as the B&Ws). I should also note, I did not calibrate my receiver nor go through trouble of finding the best placement for the Infinity either. Just placed them right next to my existing Revels so I didn't have to run new wiring and turned of all AVR sound processing.

If you care to check, do a search for speaker measurements of the Infinity Primus frequency response and off axis response then compare them to those of the B&Ws in the $1.5K - $3K range and you find that they (Primus) measure better than the B&Ws and many other "high end" speaker brands out there.

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear in my first response to you.

Of course preference plays a huge role in speakers, and with large differences it is easy to remember if a speaker sounded too bright, too boomy, too boxy, etc. Your experience in preferring the Primus speakers over the B&W's or Thiel's is a great example of this, and I think it's perfectly valid. I have heard plenty of high-dollar speakers that I don't like too.

I agree the Primus speakers are terrific and obviously well engineered by people who care about music reproduction and know what they are doing. And having the resources of Harman no doubt plays a big part in trickling down quality parts and streamlining manufacturing to keep prices down. My original response was more about the subtle differences that separate an inexpensive speaker from a more expensive speaker. It's these subtle differences that cannot necessarily be discerned by memory or from different setups. Speakers are such a personal/emotional part of the system and there's really no way to know how a speaker will sound until you get it home.

BTW, I don't like the Def Tech bi-polar speakers either...;)

Of course, once you get your speakers home, you have a whole new set of challenges. Room reflections and resonances play a huge role in how your speakers will sound at home, and every room is different. Most people do not have the luxury of setting up a large dedicated home theater room with proper acoustic treatment and unlimited choice of subwoofer location. If you are lucky enough to have such a room, the Primus is probably not a great choice simply because it won't play loud enough to fill the room to reference level.

So I am going on the assumption that most of us have our home theaters set up in a dual purpose theater/family room (mine is in my basement). Such a room has furniture, windows, doorways, maybe a fireplace, and many other features that make it less than ideal for optimum sound. Reflections can be controlled with carpeting, heavy curtains, furniture, etc. and can greatly help improve the imaging of the sound, but bass is always a challenge. Room modes usually appear in the 20 - 200 Hz region, and simple carpets and drapes won't do anything for these. Only 6" thick foam panels and corner traps can address these frequencies, and I don't think too many family rooms (or wives) can accommodate these - especially in the proper locations.

For most of us, all we can do is choose speakers that sound good to us, treat our rooms as best we can to try and control the worst reflections and resonances, and place the speakers in a compromised position that works best given all the limitations stated above. It will never be OPTIMUM. In my case, my room is open on one side and irregularly shaped, so bass modes aren't a problem for me. My problem is reflections. I have three big windows along the closed side of my room and bare walls between the windows. My sofa is also very close to the back wall. I use heavy curtains over the windows (one of which is at the right side speaker primary reflection point) and behind my sofa to address this. The bass in my room is stunning as is - awesome PRaT with no bloat at all. I may yet add a subwoofer someday to get more SPL and rumble below 30Hz with movies (and pipe organs!), but for now, I'm very satisfied with the sound.

Of course, once you get your speakers home, you have a whole new set of challenges. Room reflections and resonances play a huge role in how your speakers will sound at home, and every room is different. Most people do not have the luxury of setting up a large dedicated home theater room with proper acoustic treatment and unlimited choice of subwoofer location. If you are lucky enough to have such a room, the Primus is probably not a great choice simply because it won't play loud enough to fill the room to reference level.

So I am going on the assumption that most of us have our home theaters set up in a dual purpose theater/family room (mine is in my basement). Such a room has furniture, windows, doorways, maybe a fireplace, and many other features that make it less than ideal for optimum sound. Reflections can be controlled with carpeting, heavy curtains, furniture, etc. and can greatly help improve the imaging of the sound, but bass is always a challenge. Room modes usually appear in the 20 - 200 Hz region, and simple carpets and drapes won't do anything for these. Only 6" thick foam panels and corner traps can address these frequencies, and I don't think too many family rooms (or wives) can accommodate these - especially in the proper locations.


I think you'll enjoy Toole's book, as he devotes a lot of attention to what you're talking about.

One of the most interesting things I learned is that the average listener prefers reflections! Some audiophiles work hard to deaden a room (and obviously a room can be too "live"), but it's the reflections that are a huge part of the live concert hall experience. Listening to live music in great concert halls is becoming more and more a memory for me, as I am left with the imperfect illusion at home. What is the reference today? My daughter's reference could be FM radio! Two channel Ipod earbuds playing garbled low res files with no dynamic range? At least in what I've read, I haven't seen anything about Harman screening its listeners based on their own concert experience. What is their reference? The inference is that it doesn't matter. What the average likes is what any given average likes. And, it can be objectively quantified. And, it's been consistent over decades of Toole and Sean Olive's tests. That's encouraging, to me, at least.

It will never be OPTIMUM. In my case, my room is open on one side and irregularly shaped, so bass modes aren't a problem for me. My problem is reflections. I have three big windows along the closed side of my room and bare walls between the windows. My sofa is also very close to the back wall. I use heavy curtains over the windows (one of which is at the right side speaker primary reflection point) and behind my sofa to address this. The bass in my room is stunning as is - awesome PRaT with no bloat at all. I may yet add a subwoofer someday to get more SPL and rumble below 30Hz with movies (and pipe organs!), but for now, I'm very satisfied with the sound.

If I said this before, forgive me, but I have got to post the response curves of the room correction my new receiver applied. What is becoming possible in mass market, affordable electronics is amazing.

I haven't seen anything about Harman screening its listeners based on their own concert experience. What is their reference? The inference is that it doesn't matter. What the average likes is what any given average likes. And, it can be objectively quantified.I think the only thing Harman may look for in listeners is how good they are at spotting differences. But even their most discerning listeners gave the same preference ranking to a group of loudspeakers that college students and audio reviewers gave (just took a lot fewer listening trials with the trained listeners to get the same result). Large scale testing (300+ participants) helped them quantify those results.

http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2008/12/loudspeaker-preferences-of-trained.html

Out of curiosity, I plugged the front bass port on all three of my P362's (L, C & R).

My SPL meter showed a 2db loss across all tested frequencies (80hz, 100hz, 120 hz) with the port plugged in (80hz cutoff in the AVR).

However, the speaker resonance (more than likely caused by inferior bracing) was reduced.

I listened to some guitar solos and some tracks with bass guitar sounded tighter than before.

I re-ran the room eq program to account for the 2db loss.

For 2 channel listening, this setup sounds better.

Anyone tried this ?

I want to try this too. What did you plug the ports with?

I want to try this too. What did you plug the ports with?
I used foam plugs at first and then tried plain Putty. The Putty sounded better than the foam.
Owens Corning 703 maybe best but I don't have that.

thank you.

I had a 4.0 setup in our living room with the 2 front speakers being P 362s (the surrounds are some 30 year old Mitsubishi leftovers) for over a year now. They pretty much are on all day with CNBC, news and weather channels. Only lately have I used them for some music, when my wife was using our HT, and I decided to add a center to play 5.1 DVDs better. I selected the P 162, as it has the same drivers as the P 362 and is rated down to 49 hz +/- 3 db, while the center speakers go down only to 80 hz +/- 3 db. Available for $85 currently.
After connecting, changing the receiver settings and calibrating the now 5 speakers with my Radio Shack sound pressure meter, I switched to channel 864 on DirecTv to hear some classical music. It happened to be Bruch's violin concerto and it sounded pretty bad. Rather than a silky violin, I had a scratchy violin. Piano sounded rather metallic, too. The corner speakers sounded o.k. when I put my ear to the HF driver, but the center was no good. I tightened some of the screws holding the 2 drivers and then remembered break-in period.
So for a few days, when nobody was in the living room, they have been playing classical music from channel 864 for hours on end.
Yesterday, I got out the Satie CD again, which sounded very metallic on the first try. Much better. While they still don't sound like my AV123 X-Statics, they have a subwoofer and room treatment in our HT to help.
The scratchiness on solo violins is gone and classical music sounds now quite fine. They go low enough for my purpose and I don't miss a subwoofer. In connection with DTS Neo Music, my old stereo CD's are experiencing a renaissance and 5.1 DVD's like Verdi's Requiem under Claudio Abbado sound quite impressive, too.
Very happy with the P 162 as a center.

Yesterday, I got out the Satie CD again, which sounded very metallic on the first try. Much better. While they still don't sound like my AV123 X-Statics, they have a subwoofer and room treatment in our HT to help.
The scratchiness on solo violins is gone and classical music sounds now quite fine. They go low enough for my purpose and I don't miss a subwoofer. In connection with DTS Neo Music, my old stereo CD's are experiencing a renaissance and 5.1 DVD's like Verdi's Requiem under Claudio Abbado sound quite impressive, too.
Very happy with the P 162 as a center.

Glad you are happy with the center, but "break in" cannot explain what you described.

Newegg is having a sale on the p153 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882428088), right now through the 20th it is $50 shipped each, that is a terrific deal. Just enter the Promo code. You could get a good 5 channel system for $250 if you wanted.

Dangerous was probably an overstatement as there is no likelihood of anything blowing up. The proper words should have been that full range speakers in a 5.1 or more home theater system are not optimal in terms of audio for the reasons that have already been cited.

I think you'll enjoy Toole's book, as he devotes a lot of attention to what you're talking about.

One of the most interesting things I learned is that the average listener prefers reflections! Some audiophiles work hard to deaden a room (and obviously a room can be too "live"), but it's the reflections that are a huge part of the live concert hall experience. Listening to live music in great concert halls is becoming more and more a memory for me, as I am left with the imperfect illusion at home. What is the reference today? My daughter's reference could be FM radio! Two channel Ipod earbuds playing garbled low res files with no dynamic range? At least in what I've read, I haven't seen anything about Harman screening its listeners based on their own concert experience. What is their reference? The inference is that it doesn't matter. What the average likes is what any given average likes. And, it can be objectively quantified. And, it's been consistent over decades of Toole and Sean Olive's tests. That's encouraging, to me, at least.

Thank you both for recommending Floyd Toole's book! I've read it pretty much from cover to cover and have gained a lot of insight. Like you amicusterrae, I was surprised to learn about the benefit of side reflections and the significance of off-axis speaker response.

Lots of solid research and well explained concepts that ring true. An excellent reference book I will no doubt revisit many times in the future.

Regards...:)

I have a question, are the grilles interchangeable between the different Primus series? I have a pair of P362, and I don't like the grilles. The part that curves over the top looks strange. Will Primus 360 grilles fit on the P362?

...

The other thing you need to know about the Primus line is the drivers and sound is the same from one version to the next. The differences are just visual. So, the 360, 361, 362 and 363 will all sound virtually identical. Same with all the other speakers in the series. So, 160 and 163 will be the same.

Is there any truth to what I read somewhere that the 363's have a slightly upgraded/improved cabinet over the 360>362?

That is well known as the weakest link in that speaker line.

I have the primus theater speaker pack II wanting to go with floor standing to go to 7.1. Was thinking about 252 or 362. I have a Polk 12 powered sub and yamaha v571 . Anyone with any recommendations or know any deals?

I know the P363's are floor standers, but the layout of my living room means they will be behid my couch and love seat.

The 363's are 40" high, but I have some 15" stands that would put the midrange and tweeter up over (and in the clear) of the couches.

I will try them both ways, but if they are stable on the stands, is there any reason to not do that?

Are those plastic feet removable?

I know the P363's are floor standers, but the layout of my living room means they will be behid my couch and love seat.

The 363's are 40" high, but I have some 15" stands that would put the midrange and tweeter up over (and in the clear) of the couches.

I will try them both ways, but if they are stable on the stands, is there any reason to not do that?

Are those plastic feet removable?

I can't comment on putting the speakers up on stands, but yes, the feet are removable and the speaker comes with stealthy replacement rubber (i think) feet.

I know the P363's are floor standers, but the layout of my living room means they will be behind my couch and love seat.

The 363's are 40" high, but I have some 15" stands that would put the midrange and tweeter up over (and in the clear) of the couches.

I will try them both ways, but if they are stable on the stands, is there any reason to not do that?

No. And that is certainly preferable to putting them on the floor. If you are doing 7.1, then it is preferable to raise all of the surround sound speakers up so that the tweeters are above your ears in the MLP. Simply let your ears be the judge.

Hi everyone,

Another new Primus owner here! Putting together my first real home theater. I am wondering if anyone have any ideas where I can get a P351 up in Canada? The only place that carries it is Best Buy and they haven't had any PC351 in stock in a long time. Thanks!

For those of you waiting for a 3 series center to go on sale: (edit: I can't post URLs. Google Electronic Expo). They have stock on both their webside and ebay store of pc350s and pc351s for pretty cheap (I got an open box 351 for $150 shipped).

I am only seeing the 200 series on that site.

I am only seeing the 200 series on that site.

Just search 'primus'

Just search 'primus'

Found the open box and ordered it. Went back and searched again and it was no longer there. Maybe I got the last one.

I have been unable to locate the primus 363's for a good price. I don't have fry's where I live. Any suggestions on where to look?

I have been unable to locate the primus 363's for a good price. I don't have fry's where I live. Any suggestions on where to look?
http://www.crutchfield.com/shopsearch/primus.html

The P362 is the same speaker with just a slightly different color scheme and a different number.

Break up your purchase into two orders, use some coupons and you can get them for $180 each.

Or buy the open box and pay $170 each.

Crutchfield is out of stock on the 363. Ebay seems to have inflated prices on these. Is there anywhere else that sells them?

I bought mine straight from the manufacturer a few months back, and they had consecutive serial numbers...

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/product_detail.asp?urlMaterialNumber=P363BK

Unfortunately, the 363 is also out of stock at Harman... but the 363 should be back in around 5/23/2012.

If you create a BackOrder on the 363, they'll charge your credit card... but you'll lock in the price of $199 per speaker, w/ free shipping, and they send the 363s when they are in stock.

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/product_detail.asp?urlMaterialNumber=P363BK&stock=no&LabOne=Y

It's worth a shot if you really want them...
I love mine :).

Got my 163's today. Bigger than I anticipated. Looks good though. Trying to figure out if they are going to be able to handle front mains properly.

I blew my tweeter in my Primus center channel (don't know model). Where can I buy replacement speakers?

I was able to get a replacement tweeter for a Primus 360 tower direct from Harmon (Infinity) at about $24.

Super easy replacement

I blew my tweeter in my Primus center channel (don't know model). Where can I buy replacement speakers?

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/partlist.asp?BrandId=INF&MarketId=HOM&Parts=PRIMUS300/230

I am really enjoying the P163's and the PC351 I got. I still want to get p363's and move the P163's to surrounds.

I am really enjoying the P163's and the PC351 I got. I still want to get p363's and move the P163's to surrounds.

I too have the P163's, PC351 and P162's for the Surround and am continuing to really enjoy these speakers!

Purchased a pair of P362s off Craigslist with a blown tweeter. Looks like part number is 85DA20AJ-DT05-E.

Anybody have a spare tweeter that they'd be willing to sell or know where I can get one for less than $30? Harman is out of stock and only alternative I can see is buying single P153 and replacing tweeter that way..

Thanks!

Just got off the infinity website and they have raised the price of the 363's. They use to be 199 and now they are 329.

Purchased a pair of P362s off Craigslist with a blown tweeter. Looks like part number is 85DA20AJ-DT05-E.

Anybody have a spare tweeter that they'd be willing to sell or know where I can get one for less than $30? Harman is out of stock and only alternative I can see is buying single P153 and replacing tweeter that way..

Thanks!

http://reconingspeakers.com/products-page/tweeters/infinity-primus-p362-tweeter/

$35 plus shipping.

Why is it so hard to find a PC351 up here in Canada? O.o I'm just missing that center to finish off my 5.1 setup!

These speakers seem to be hard to find everywhere. I am having difficulty finding the primus 363's.

These speakers seem to be hard to find everywhere. I am having difficulty finding the primus 363's.

Given that the P362 is identical except for color and model, have you considered that?

Yes I have. I just don't like the looks of the 362. Maybe I should look at the 360.

Any suggestions on a wall mount for the P153?

Seems like it's pretty heavy at 13 lbs and I don't think attatching it directly to the wall will be a good way to put it. Need to rotate, angle down slightly...

Any suggestions on a wall mount for the P153?

Seems like it's pretty heavy at 13 lbs and I don't think attatching it directly to the wall will be a good way to put it. Need to rotate, angle down slightly...

Look at this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002UV03MW/ref=oh_o00_s00_i00_details

thanks a lot. I was looking into those. Do i have to screw the speaker to the base or will the clamp, alone do the trick?

I'd like to avoid drilling holes in the new speakers if possible.

thanks a lot. I was looking into those. Do i have to screw the speaker to the base or will the clamp, alone do the trick?

I'd like to avoid drilling holes in the new speakers if possible.

Yeah, so the 153s got delivered today. I guess i should have paid more attention to the specs. These things are really massive and my wife doesn't want them mounted on the wall in our living room. I'll have to probably give them to my brother or something. no point returning them, they are more than worth the low price i paid on newegg.

lesson learned... set up your home theatre before you get married.

Any recommendations for something smaller? the 143s don't seem like they'll be any better (and they are more expensive). I was looking at the TSS-SAT800. Any other recommendations are welcome. Thanks.

Yeah, so the 153s got delivered today. I guess i should have paid more attention to the specs. These things are really massive and my wife doesn't want them mounted on the wall in our living room. I'll have to probably give them to my brother or something. no point returning them, they are more than worth the low price i paid on newegg.

lesson learned... set up your home theatre before you get married.


They look smaller the higher you mount them. Just like the moon!

Any suggestions on a wall mount for the P153?

Seems like it's pretty heavy at 13 lbs and I don't think attatching it directly to the wall will be a good way to put it. Need to rotate, angle down slightly...

13lbs feels heavy to the hand, but your wall can handle it. Put in a couple of dry wall anchors (like these http://amzn.com/B0051IALCI) and you could hold 5x the weight (or get a screw into a stud). Rotating and angling is just making some calculations. I mounted my 153's in a corner last weekend and went though the same thing. I attached a terrible drawing of how I mounted mine. I wanted them to fire directly out of the corner, so I made 45 degree angle cuts on a 7 inch piece of wood and mounted the speakers flush with that piece. By bringing the screws out, I could adjust the angle that the speaker fires. This was in the top corner of the wall, so they were pretty much flush with the ceiling also.
Edit: Now I'm adding pictures.
http://i.imgur.com/xa9Cm.png

While I had the saw out, I cut up an Ikea shelving system to hold the TV over the massive PC351. Wife almost killed me when I brought that thing out, this seemed to placate her.
http://i.imgur.com/daLU8.jpg

Yeah, so the 153s got delivered today. I guess i should have paid more attention to the specs. These things are really massive and my wife doesn't want them mounted on the wall in our living room. I'll have to probably give them to my brother or something. no point returning them, they are more than worth the low price i paid on newegg.

lesson learned... set up your home theatre before you get married.

Any recommendations for something smaller? the 143s don't seem like they'll be any better (and they are more expensive). I was looking at the TSS-SAT800. Any other recommendations are welcome. Thanks.

I kept showing my wife pictures from the dedicated home theater forum. When all I wanted to do was put some 163's on my walls, all of a sudden it seemed perfectly reasonable!

I am surprised by the price increase of the primus line. I got my 163's for $85 per speaker two weeks ago. Now the cheapest I can find them is $140. Does not look good for me finding the p363's for less than retail.

I am surprised by the price increase of the primus line. I got my 163's for $85 per speaker two weeks ago. Now the cheapest I can find them is $140. Does not look good for me finding the p363's for less than retail.

Crutchfield has them in stock at $85 right now.

The prices seem to be cyclical. I have bought most of mine from Electronics Expo, and they have great prices when the speakers are in stock. Over the past year, I've seen them go in and out of stock quite a few times. When I was looking to complete my set, I bookmarked Crutchfield and Electronic Expo's Primus pages, and check them once a day until I saw the prices I wanted.

I see the 162 at those prices but it says $140 for the 163.

I see the 162 at those prices but it says $140 for the 163.

Ah, fair point.

Anyone know if Infinity is going to come up with new series for this spring? Like P364s? haha.

Anyone know if Infinity is going to come up with new series for this spring? Like P364s? haha.

Not likely. There is nothing mentioned on the Infinity website and the current top line Primus is the P363. Strangely enough, there is a picture of the Cascade Nine which has been discontinued, as well as the Prelude 40, another line that has probably also been discontinued (although you might be able to get one @$6K).

http://www.infinitysystems.com/home/default.aspx

http://www.infinitysystems.com/home/products/category2.aspx?Language=ENG&Region=USA&Country=US

i am a newbie to avs and new to infinity speaker owner i just went to best buy today and picked up the pair of infinity p253 and the pc251 centre channel (wanted the p 363 and pc 351 but didnt have the cash hahaha)so far they sound awesome , they had the p363in stock but were 449 each and the pc351 is 399 i didnt have that much cash at this time so i got the p253 for 135 each and the pc 251 for 130 i couldnt pass up that deal just means ill have to upgrade down the road to the 363 hahahaa now gotta finish it off with a nice small surrounds thinking maybe the p143's and an infinity sub looking at the 10" or 12" and gotta buy my onkyo 609 reciever then maybe ill buy 2 subs hahahha im just peasing it together now but ill get her done hahah also looking at an emotiva amp to power the 253 or when i get the 363 hahaha call me crazy

Hi Guys,
Looking for some advice, I tried it as a separate thread but didnt get any response so I thought I should try here.

I have Infinity interludes in front IL10 and IL25C for center and a Velodyne DPS-12 Sub-woofer, I was wondering if Infinity Primus p143 will be a good match for the surround. Looking for small speakers to go with the front speakers. Any one running this type of setup with success or have opinion?

Currently I am using Acoustic Research AR215PS speakers for surround.

Hi Guys,
Looking for some advice, I tried it as a separate thread but didnt get any response so I thought I should try here.

I have Infinity interludes in front IL10 and IL25C for center and a Velodyne DPS-12 Sub-woofer, I was wondering if Infinity Primus p143 will be a good match for the surround. Looking for small speakers to go with the front speakers. Any one running this type of setup with success or have opinion?

Currently I am using Acoustic Research AR215PS speakers for surround.

I see no issues. They will probably be a better match than my Interlude IL-60s, IL-36 fronts and Cambridge Soundworks The Surround 5.1 side surrounds. I found my rear surrounds beside the street that someone had put out as trash. If you manage your Large /Small and crossover frequencies the 143s will work fine. Got my daughter a pair of 142s a few years ago to use with her IPod. Right out of the box I was amazed. I don't think matching surrounds to fronts is a real high priority in most households.

Thanks GLBright, Yes I have denon 1712 which has separate crossover for center, front and surround. I was just not sure how MMD tweeter will play along with CMMD ones on interludes.

Hey guys, looking at upgrading my old Infinity Reference towers to some of these Infinity Primus, likely the P362. I am not against buying used, and wouldn't mind saving myself a little money. I plan on keeping an eye out for any of these on ebay/craigslist, what would you consider a fair price for the P362 used?

Hey guys, looking at upgrading my old Infinity Reference towers to some of these Infinity Primus, likely the P362. I am not against buying used, and wouldn't mind saving myself a little money. I plan on keeping an eye out for any of these on ebay/craigslist, what would you consider a fair price for the P362 used?

There was a time when a new P362 could be had from Fry's for either $99 or $129 each. With the last big bargain being a pair for $199. Hard to gauge what a used one would go for these days, although something close to the retail price seems to be the norm for a new one. Unless you are in a big rush, just wait and continue to check online. Unless Infinity has changed, the new speakers come with a 5 year warranty and that is certainly worth something.

There was a time when a new P362 could be had from Fry's for either $99 or $129 each. With the last big bargain being a pair for $199. Hard to gauge what a used one would go for these days, although something close to the retail price seems to be the norm for a new one. Unless you are in a big rush, just wait and continue to check online. Unless Infinity has changed, the new speakers come with a 5 year warranty and that is certainly worth something.

Talk about a deal! Best deal I could find was 170 for a P362 new, but they only had 1, and the next best thing is Crutchfield for 199 new. I think I will take your advice and wait for a good deal, maybe someone on here will be selling theirs :cool:

Looking for recommendations for a Ceiling Bracket for a pair of P153's (12 Lbs, each).

These look good but start to bend slightly, per some user reviews:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10828&cs_id=1082804&p_id=6839&seq=1&format=1#largeimage

Has anyone tried mounting their P153's to the ceiling ?

If they still have them, Fry's in Chicago land (Downer's Grove) has the P153's for $49.99 each. Tomorrow is the last day. Website says limit one per household, but the print ad says sold in pairs. I was able to get a pair in store last Saturday.

Hi all. I have an older set of the Primus series - 2 250's, 4 150's, and a C-25 paired with a Dayton 10" sub. I'm moving into a new house and haven't used my Primus's for a few years, but would like to put together a home theater in the family room of the new house. I still think the Primus's sound good and am not particularly interested in starting over, but have a few questions. Is there a significant difference between these and the newer Infinity Primus series? Should I consider looking for something a little smaller to use for my rear surrounds (assuming I want to go with a 7.1 system)? If so, what might make sense and go well with the other speakers? Whatever I use will have to be ceiling mounted - I'm having trouble finding a mount that will make it easy to use the 150's. For what it's worth, the room is approximately 15' X 20', with 9' ceilings. Maybe a post like this would be better served in a different thread, but I thought I'd start here. Thanks for any thoughts!

Is there a significant difference between these and the newer Infinity Primus series?

Only if you consider cosmetics significant. If not, there are no other design changes.

Talk about a deal! Best deal I could find was 170 for a P362 new, but they only had 1, and the next best thing is Crutchfield for 199 new. I think I will take your advice and wait for a good deal, maybe someone on here will be selling theirs :cool:

Here is your big chance. Fry's is selling a pair of P363s for $249.98 in Los Angeles, today.

Not just Los Angeles...all Fry's. And can be purchased online.
http://www.frys.com/onlineads/0001505081?vid=uLop9990xA?plu=6878376

^^^
Missed the sale

I have a pair of p153's I want to mount on the ceiling with metal mounts (it will hold)

If I were to screw two bolts in the back of the speaker, would they affect any wiring or electronics? How much room is there in the back of the cabinet? the bolts are heavy duty...

Thanks!

My setup:

2 x p263's (wish I had p363's)
2 x p153's
2 x p142's
1 x pc350
1 x BIC VK1220 sub
Denon AVR-891