View Full Version : JL Audio Fathom F113, F112
TJ Morgan
09-12-06, 02:24 PM
Has anyone read a recent review of the new JL Audio Fathom subs? I am a dealer and just received my first shipment a couple of weeks ago. Both subs are very impressive both in output level and musicality.
I was just wondering if anyone else had any comments or an actual listening experience.
bsheldon
09-12-06, 03:09 PM
There was a lot said about them after they were first announced at last year's show, but I haven't seen any tests on them. From all accounts they look to be very good performers, just a bit pricey, competing with very high-end subs. I would like to see a couple of objective tests on them.
Kal Rubinson
09-12-06, 03:28 PM
My review of the f113 is in my November column in Stereophile.
Kal
goalgoal
11-19-06, 07:09 AM
I'd read through your review in stereophile, but it didn't like other recommended equipment's reviews. Those were more detail and tested in depth. The most important thing was that f113 wasn't classified whether it's highly recommended by stereophile or at least which class it belongs to... this made me a bit disappointed... I think it's a product introduction rather than a review...
nethomas
11-19-06, 08:38 AM
Do a search here and you will find a lengthy thread on the Fathom. I have two F113s and they are great.
craigsub
11-19-06, 09:35 AM
As part of the on going subwoofer shootout being done here, these are the direct 2 Meter GP measurements from the DD-18 and the Fathom 113. These may be of some assistance when recommending a sub. :
DD-18 @ 16 Hz:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/dd1816Hz.jpg
DD-18 @ 20 Hz:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/dd1820Hz.jpg
DD-18 @ 25 Hz:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/dd1825Hz.jpg
Fathom 113 @ 16 Hz:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/11316Hz.jpg
Fathom 113 @ 20 Hz
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/11320Hz.jpg
Fathom 113 @ 25 Hz
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/11325Hz.jpg
goalgoal
11-19-06, 11:20 AM
Let me clarify... what I was disappointed was only about Kal's review, but not f113's capability and potential!!
Kal Rubinson
11-19-06, 11:48 AM
I'd read through your review in stereophile, but it didn't like other recommended equipment's reviews. Those were more detail and tested in depth. The most important thing was that f113 wasn't classified whether it's highly recommended by stereophile or at least which class it belongs to... this made me a bit disappointed... I think it's a product introduction rather than a review...It was reviewed as part of the column, and not in a stand-alone review, per Stereophile's editorial policy. Yes, I, too, would have liked to see some measurements.
Ratings for all components are assigned with the publication of the Recommended Components in April and October and the f113 will be included.
goalgoal
11-19-06, 01:57 PM
So do you mean f113 will have a detailed review in stereophile later? And is it a recommend subwoofer? Which class it belongs to??
Kal Rubinson
11-19-06, 08:57 PM
So do you mean f113 will have a detailed review in stereophile later?It is, currently, editorial policy to not have stand-alone reviews of subwoofers (and certain other components).
And is it a recommend subwoofer? Which class it belongs to??
To quote myself: "Ratings for all components are assigned with the publication of the Recommended Components in April and October and the f113 will be included."
You will have to wait until the April issue for more information. ;)
goalgoal
11-19-06, 09:49 PM
I recall that in the past there were stand-alone subwoofer reviews. The most recent one was subwoofer Genelec and James. They both belongs to class B!!
Not many reviews out,yet. One thing is sure the new JL Audio f112 and f113 outperform many established products from very respected companies.
Having owned over 50 subs and having two dozen at home I can say the f113 is without any doubt reference class,there is no compact sealed subs that even touch this unit,when maximum performance is key.
Built like a tank,quality of cabinet to the controls is first rate.It is an all around winner.
funlvr1965
11-20-06, 12:37 AM
Personally I think Mark Seatons "submersive-1" sub is going to give it a run for the money,,stay tuned ;)
Kal Rubinson
11-20-06, 11:38 AM
I recall that in the past there were stand-alone subwoofer reviews. The most recent one was subwoofer Genelec and James. They both belongs to class B!!Time changes things.
funlvr1965
11-21-06, 11:57 AM
Having owned over 50 subs and having two dozen at home I can say the f113 is without any doubt reference class,there is no compact sealed subs that even touch this unit,when maximum performance is key.
.
like I said stay tuned :D
I now own one of these monsters
like I said stay tuned :D
I now own one of these monsters
I will stay tuned,for these.In output should be good to go,now it is all in the quality of the sub bass.To beat a f113,strongly doubt any sub can do this.
These are ported I guess.No ported bests a sealed in quality.In any case I will get a SubMersive.
SubMersive and BMF are on my list,as well as TC Sounds upcoming MONSTERS.
TheEAR hears it all,all the subbass that is. :p
funlvr1965
11-21-06, 02:29 PM
The Submersive is a sealed sub and the quality of the bass is top notch in my opinion
MusicFirst
11-21-06, 02:55 PM
I was going to wait for the Submersive, but the size is just a little too big for my WAF, and imo it is not as nice looking as the f113 either. To be honest the size of the f113 is pushing it for me anyway. The Submersive is much cheaper than the MRSP of the f113, but street pricing brings them really close. If their performance is similar, all things considered, I personally would still go with the f113. Mainly because of size and looks. If for some reason the Submersive really outperforms the f113, then the equation changes of course. It would still be too big in size for me though. Like I said, I'm pushing it with the f113, and it's really not that big in the first place.
I thought the submersive was going to be a PR, or is that the BMF? Is the submersive a dual-driver, sealed, push-pull alignment?
The Submersive is a sealed sub and the quality of the bass is top notch in my opinion
Question...It uses one or two drivers(opposed sides)?
The single driver I see does not have the displacement of a W7. It would have to be two drivers in that case.
MusicFirst
11-21-06, 03:01 PM
I thought the submersive was going to be a PR, or is that the BMF? Is the submersive a dual-driver, sealed, push-pull alignment? Yeah, the BMF is the PR based unit (and even bigger yet), the Submersive is a dual 15" sealed unit.
MusicFirst
11-21-06, 03:02 PM
Question...It uses one or two drivers(opposed sides)?
Yep, two 15" drivers opposing sides.
funlvr1965
11-21-06, 03:28 PM
Indeed, there are 2 15" opposing drivers that produce no vibration because of placement and design so this means that at full romp this sub will not "walk" across the surface as a front firing might, also the box would need to be twice the size if both drivers were on the same side of the sub, it is powererd by a 1000w digital amp which is very light and produces much less heat
I was going to wait for the Submersive, but the size is just a little too big for my WAF, and imo it is not as nice looking as the f113 either. To be honest the size of the f113 is pushing it for me anyway. The Submersive is much cheaper than the MRSP of the f113, but street pricing brings them really close. If their performance is similar, all things considered, I personally would still go with the f113. Mainly because of size and looks. If for some reason the Submersive really outperforms the f113, then the equation changes of course. It would still be too big in size for me though. Like I said, I'm pushing it with the f113, and it's really not that big in the first place.
The "street" pricing of the F113 is still nowhere near the price of the Submersive. (unless you know something I don't)
-Eli
Dual drivers,opposing sides.I could guess by looking at the pics.Very good idea ,opposing drivers cancel each other,vibration is reduced to...next to nothing.
Two solid mid-priced 15" woofers will match the 13.5 ubber excursion JL W7 in displacement.
Makes sense
MusicFirst
11-21-06, 04:27 PM
The "street" pricing of the F113 is still nowhere near the price of the Submersive. (unless you know something I don't)
-Eli
Do you know this first hand? Have you checked with various dealers? I can tell you I got a great deal from my dealer! I consider a few hundred dollars fairly "close" or "near". :)
Do you know this first hand? Have you checked with various dealers? I can tell you I got a great deal from my dealer! I consider a few hundred dollars fairly "close" or "near". :)
I have checked with several dealers and the best price was a long way from "a few hundred dollars" difference.
-Eli
MusicFirst
11-21-06, 04:49 PM
I have checked with several dealers and the best price was a long way from "a few hundred dollars" difference.
-Eli
Some of us are just lucky I guess. I have a very long standing relationship with my dealer, and I get great deals on AV gear because of it. Others I know have similar experience with their AV dealers.
Btw, Very nice HT setup you have there Eli!
Btw, Very nice HT setup you have there Eli!
Thanks!
Fun, may I ask why you are getting rid of the SMS-1 and going with something else?
F
The Fathom subs have better built quality,to deny this is to live in a clouded dream. This explains the price premium.
I am not talking only about the finish of the Fathom,but about the driver,amp,control and auto calibration.The SubMersive will at best have slightly more output and extension.
You may say I do not even have one so how do I know.I know how to guesstimate subs,I had so many and have so many from all the better sub makers.
I say it will be a great sub priced well,a winner.
Mark Seaton
11-21-06, 05:20 PM
Fun, may I ask why you are getting rid of the SMS-1 and going with something else?
10Hz. :cool:
fun' is will be hiring me to optimize his system in the near future where the DSP-30 is much more flexible with filtering than an SMS-1, without high passing the 10Hz performance that will be available in his modestly sized room. The QSC unit has a better track record of reliability than the Behringer DCX or DEQ products and doesn't have an internal fan.
The included measurement system of the SMS-1 is a wonderful tool for those who won't have other means of measurement available, but other measurement systems and further EQ flexibility can yield better results IMO.
Mark Seaton
11-21-06, 05:39 PM
F
The Fathom subs have better built quality,to deny this is to live in a clouded dream. This explains the price premium.
I am not talking only about the finish of the Fathom,but about the driver,amp,control and auto calibration.The SubMersive will at best have slightly more output and extension.
You may say I do not even have one so how do I know.I know how to guesstimate subs,I had so many and have so many from all the better sub makers.
I say it will be a great sub priced well,a winner.
Hi TheEAR,
Since my first priorities were to serve customers of mine with dedicated theaters and commonly concealed installations, rather attractive premium finishes will come at a later date. Please don't confuse finish and aesthetic quality with build quality. The installation versions (more commonly called "architectural finish") are built from Baltic Birch as it provides maximum strength and rigidity. Premium finishes will be MDF but there is minimal difference due to the opposed design and internal bracing. The amplifier is extremely high quality ICE Power amplifier with a switch-mode power supply while EQ and limiting are all excecuted via DSP operating at 24bit/96kHz and a ballanced, transformer coupled input to boot. The JL internals of the driver and amplifier are most certainly more visually impressive, although as they say... it's how you use it. ;)
The JL subwoofers are top performers and well designed packages by all accounts and from my own experiences at the various trade shows. It happens to come to market at a good time for me as it lends further evidence that a sealed subwoofer can be designed and built to compete with the best. We are still lacking much comparable information on the response of the JL. The Fathom and my SubMersive will of course be compared, but they are rather different approaches toward similar, but different end goals. Obviously both approaches have merit.
In my oppinion the market has been in desparate need of more options in the high performance subwoofer realm. I believe both products will add to those options.
Best Regards,
johnlarsen
11-21-06, 06:07 PM
the value card for sealed high output super low will be SUBmerSIVE model 1, no question bout it. but sizes are different too. Sub1 with feet is 25-18-25 for H-W-D, while FATHOM F113 is 20-17-20 for H-W-D. big big differences of almost half foot in two directions. so you get what you pay for with both.
Mark Seaton
11-21-06, 06:14 PM
the value card for sealed high output super low will be SUBmerSIVE model 1, no question bout it. but sizes are different too. Sub1 with feet is 25-18-25 for H-W-D, while FATHOM F113 is 20-17-20 for H-W-D. big big differences of almost half foot in two directions. so you get what you pay for with both.
The SubMersive dimensions are 24.75" tall + 0.75" for the feet with a footprint of 23" x 17.5" without grills and ~24" x 17.5" with grills.
MIkeDuke
11-21-06, 06:18 PM
"but sizes are different too"
But for me, the only major size difference is the height. The depth and width are almost the same as what I have now. So for me, size is not an issue. Not to jack this thread. The JL looks like a great great performer. It will cause many companies to go back to the drawing board. But I can say that for me, a SubMersive will be in my future.
johnlarsen
11-21-06, 06:19 PM
yes sir, and as we can see, the FATHOM 113 is TINY, even in comparison to sealed Sub1 and 12 incher big ported sub!
dimension with grill and feet would be,
Sub1, 25.5-17.5-24
F113, 19.5-16.5-19.75
JL pack a big punch in tiny package, but they are not internet speaker, so it has to be small to be more accepted
about Sub1, what else can i say but that it is awesome. same for F113 FATHOM
b curry
11-21-06, 06:21 PM
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton
...In my oppinion the market has been in desparate need of more options in the high performance subwoofer realm.... Hear, hear!
MIkeDuke
11-21-06, 06:27 PM
John, it sure is tiny. But it weighs 130lbs. I don't think the Submersive weighs that much. Again, for me that is a plus. First my theater is on the second floor. Second, because of some balance limitations I am unable to move something like that in my own. I think the world is big enough for at least 2 monster sealed subs.
Just curious...do we know what drivers are being used in the SubMersive? By that I mean from which OEM manufacture and which model(s) in that manufacture's line. It would help shed light on what's in their stew. We know which drivers are used in the JL Fathoms.
MusicFirst
11-21-06, 07:03 PM
John, it sure is tiny. But it weighs 130lbs. Yeah, the f113 is definately not a "light-weight". Then again, my guess is even though that 13" driver will be moving mass amounts of air, I doubt the cabinet itself will be moving anywhere because of the weight. Any owners here confirm if the cabinet moves at all when hitting 110dB or so? I'm getting mine tomorrow, so I guess I will find out for myself! ;)
b curry
11-21-06, 07:21 PM
Originally Posted by MusicFirst
Any owners here confirm if the cabinet moves at all when hitting 110dB or so? I'm getting mine tomorrow, so I guess I will find out for myself!It's not moving anywhere on its own! It's like a piece of black granite. The only thing the f113 moves is air, and lots of it.
As a mater of fact, the unpacking instructions advise you to place the packing box at or near the subs final location. The f113 is covered in a flannel bag, which is the last piece of "packing" to be removed after you get it into place. JL Audio is also thoughtful enough to supply a pair of cotton white gloves to handle the unit.
MusicFirst
11-21-06, 07:34 PM
Good to know Bob, I kind of figured it was not going anywhere! Sounds like JL packs it well too! :)
Thanks,
MF
Mark Seaton
11-21-06, 07:41 PM
Just curious...do we know what drivers are being used in the SubMersive? By that I mean from which OEM manufacture and which model(s) in that manufacture's line. It would help shed light on what's in their stew. We know which drivers are used in the JL Fathoms.
The pair of 15" woofers are built to my specification and no similar or equivalent driver is available to DIYers. The 3" VC drivers are specifically designed for use in this product to meet my performance goals within the cost considerations of the product.
Hi TheEAR,
Since my first priorities were to serve customers of mine with dedicated theaters and commonly concealed installations, rather attractive premium finishes will come at a later date. Please don't confuse finish and aesthetic quality with build quality. The installation versions (more commonly called "architectural finish") are built from Baltic Birch as it provides maximum strength and rigidity. Premium finishes will be MDF but there is minimal difference due to the opposed design and internal bracing. The amplifier is extremely high quality ICE Power amplifier with a switch-mode power supply while EQ and limiting are all excecuted via DSP operating at 24bit/96kHz and a ballanced, transformer coupled input to boot. The JL internals of the driver and amplifier are most certainly more visually impressive, although as they say... it's how you use it. ;)
The JL subwoofers are top performers and well designed packages by all accounts and from my own experiences at the various trade shows. It happens to come to market at a good time for me as it lends further evidence that a sealed subwoofer can be designed and built to compete with the best. We are still lacking much comparable information on the response of the JL. The Fathom and my SubMersive will of course be compared, but they are rather different approaches toward similar, but different end goals. Obviously both approaches have merit.
In my oppinion the market has been in desparate need of more options in the high performance subwoofer realm. I believe both products will add to those options.
Best Regards,
Hello Mark,
I will be in line for one of the SubMersive subs,no doubt. I like many brands,as long as quality(bass and parts) and output are present I am all ears. :)
Your use of opposed drivers is a great simple way to keep a sub put,no matter the output and no matter if it weigs only 80lbs or 200lbs.
Will be looking for tests,and order one.
The quality I was talking about is not at all the gloss finish.It is the quality of the driver,electronics and control panel.Simply unmatched,and only so far the WIlson Watch Dog is at the same level...as well as some ubber expensive subs from Krell and Kharma...maybe the Paradigm Servo Signature.
These are products that ooze quality. Even my Aerial SW12 is not at this level! And it is one heck of a well built sub.
Hoping to see more pics of the SubMersive. I am sure more than interested.
Good to know Bob, I kind of figured it was not going anywhere! Sounds like JL packs it well too! :)
Thanks,
MF
I am not Bob,I can tell you the FATHOM subs are packed like few.And the base of the box has a nice plywood insert(the screwed donut legs are attached to it!).
And the gloves are a very nice touch...great for moving your glossy and priceless audio gear.
After over 10 years of buying subs,bigger and more and more expensive...JL Audio has impressed the heck out of me.I am customer for life.
This Submerssive is certainly getting its fair share of hype.
The pair of 15" woofers are built to my specification and no similar or equivalent driver is available to DIYers. The 3" VC drivers are specifically designed for use in this product to meet my performance goals within the cost considerations of the product.
Mark,
I appreciate that you would not simply buy an off-the-shelf driver...that you would specify the particular winding you want and other tweaks. Most speaker brands do this. My question was more specific...perhaps even a bit nosey. I was curious to know if you source the drivers from Eminence, Focal, Peerless or one of the pro driver suppliers. I'd also be curious to know if you use LEAP or some other analysis software.
I know that many manufactures don't generally reveal this informaton, but you seem to have a fairly honest, straight forward dialog going with this forum, so I thought you might be willing to share your recipe with us. It would help me better determine if you are helping to move the art and craft forward (as I believe JL is doing) or if you, like many others, are simply building sturdy, reasonably competent systems based on traditional and widely known principles.
johnlarsen
11-22-06, 12:00 PM
weight of F113 is not any issue compared to SUB1. the F113 weighs 130 pounds, but SUB1 weigh almost 110 pound too. once we get into these weight, 20 pound diff is no big deal
MARK, are u using any form of linear motor tech like JL AUDIO, TC, HSU? if not, why?
MIkeDuke
11-22-06, 12:14 PM
I hear you on the weight John. And under other circumstances I would agree with you. But for "me" it is an issue. My theater is up about 16 stairs. I am physically unable to carry it(long story). Also, I really don't have anybody I can count on(every one I know is to old :) ). With the SubMersive I am going to have the master himself install it for me. But for most people I realize that it will not matter. This is an issue that is a focus of mine and I have to consider it.
funlvr1965
11-22-06, 02:11 PM
I have yet to schedule my install as well, and im thinking that once the Submersive hits the streets and some review samples go out Mark will be one busy guy so I better schedule mine soon, my QSC DSP-30 is on its way so time to start thinking of an install date.
Just purchased an f112 today! Now I have the f113 and f112 :p
Viva la revolution...viva JL Audio :eek:
MIkeDuke
11-22-06, 03:42 PM
So I guess it's just a matter of time until the g213 :)
MusicFirst
11-22-06, 06:42 PM
Picked my f113 up today (Satin Finish). Man this thing is impressive! It's pretty small but weighs a "ton"! And it sure is sweet looking. That driver is a sight to behold!!! Have not set it up set and listened, that will come in the next few days. Unfortunately the ex-wife took the digital camera, so until I get another one no pics.
I chime in with my impressions later!
Richard Mayer
11-22-06, 06:51 PM
Unfortunately the ex-wife took the digital camera, so until I get another one no pics.
So she's "ex" already so soon... :D
Happy TG to everyone!
MusicFirst
11-22-06, 07:13 PM
So she's "ex" already so soon... :D
Happy TG to everyone!
:D
Actually she was the "ex" (or in the process of being), before the f113. Actually had nothing to do with AV or money (and no affairs either).
I do get to play my system much louder most of the time though!!! :D
Happy TG to you and all as well!
Yes the GOTHAM will be in the house,next year. JL Audio all the wayb with my Dynaudio speakers. All the way... :)
b curry
04-04-07, 08:14 AM
Not sure what the picture has to do with the JL Fathoms Andyisc00l?
I don't believe that particular sub from TC sounds actually ever made it to market, although I'm sure that was their intention at one time.
The new line of subs still not available to purchase from TC Sounds can be found here http://www.tcsounds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=875 . As you can see there is a smaller unit with a 12" and two passive radiators. Sounds like there will be three product lines available, however so far just vaporware.
Back on topic please.
Review of the f112
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/jl-audio-fathom-f112-subwoofer-review
Andyisc00l
04-04-07, 10:35 PM
Not sure what the picture has to do with the JL Fathoms Andyisc00l?
I don't believe that particular sub from TC sounds actually ever made it to market, although I'm sure that was their intention at one time.
The new line of subs still not available to purchase from TC Sounds can be found here http://www.tcsounds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=875 . As you can see there is a smaller unit with a 12" and two passive radiators. Sounds like there will be three product lines available, however so far just vaporware.
Back on topic please.
llol wrong thread sorry
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