There are certain people in this forum who really dislike the S3, probably truthfully because they are jealous that many of us have them so they try on a constant basis to speculate on what will happen in the S3's future, how dumb those of us who bought one are, and pat themselves on the back for being just so smart.Such wild suppositions are indicative of a state of denial, which influences your opinion regarding the TiVo S3. Although your rash assumptions are totally off-base & without merit, they serve to provide a modicum of entertainment for the individuals who are following this thread.

There is a lot of confustion about cable cards and two way functionality.

The following is from a CNET review of the new TiVo HD:

It still has the same shortfalls as the Series3: the Multi-Room Viewing and TiVo To Go features that remain alive and well on older non-HD Series2 and Series2 DT models are still missing in action, and the CableCard compatibility still means sacrificing video-on-demand and any other interactive functionality your cable company offers.
Click here (http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-video-recorders-dvrs/tivo-hd/4505-6474_7-32511935.html?tag=nl.e501) for the full review.

The following is a statement from CableLabs that explains cable cards (Note: The underlined sentence in the original article and the sections that I made bold):

CableCARD™ Overview

CableLabs® specifications define the interface between the CableCARD™ removable security module which separates the cable operator's proprietary conditional access system and the host device. Cable operators provide CableCARDs to subscribers. The cards provide secure access to encrypted digital cable programming. This separation of the host receiver from the conditional access function enables portability of retail host devices among cable networks throughout the country. For example, if a consumer purchases a set-top box or an integrated digital TV (DTV) in New York and then relocates to Los Angeles, that set-top box or integrated DTV will be operational on the new regional cable network.

CableCARD 1.0

The early cable removable security cards were called Point-of-Deployment (POD) modules. CableLabs later coined the term CableCARD™ and began describing the removable security devices as CableCARD security modules. The SCTE standards (ANSI/SCTE-28 and ANSI/SCTE-41) still use the term POD module. These are two names for the same thing.

From the very early specifications and draft standards, the CableCARD module has been a two-way device. That is, it included the functionality to enable two-way communication on the cable plant. This two-way communication is necessary for a variety of advanced cable services including video on demand (VOD), switched digital video (SDV), interactive services and applications.

The media has frequently reported that first-generation CableCARD 1.0 modules are one-way devices1. This is simply not true. CableLabs had always intended to develop the CableCARD module and host receiver standards with two-way capability. However the manufacturers of digital TVs requested that a host standard be developed that only had one-way capability. This one-way cable-ready receiver was defined by the FCC's Plug & Play order and by the Joint Test Suite (JTS). It is the definition of this one-way receiver that lacks the ability for two-way functionality, not the CableCARD module. While the FCC defined the elements of the one-way cable-ready receiver, CableLabs continued to define specifications for two-way receivers.

When a CableCARD 1.0 module is used with a two-way receiver (e.g., Samsung HLR5067C) that card supports all the necessary two-way functionality for VOD, SDV, and other interactive services.

Multistream CableCARDs

Over the years, technology advanced and CableLabs updated the CableCARD module specifications to create Multistream CableCARDs. Multiple stream processing is required in, for example, PVRs that record and play at the same time, picture-in-picture (PIP), and picture-on-picture PoP) type applications.

The development of the replacement interface specification was originally called the Multistream CableCARD Interface Specification. It updated the security system to support triple-DES (3DES) or FIPS PUB 46-3, added support for up to 6 simultaneous transport streams, and made use of the serialized interface, similar to USB-2.0, to achieve lower host receiver costs and higher data transfer rates. While doing this, the card maintained the original PCMCIA physical interface for backward compatibility.

Before anyone actually implemented this new Multistream CableCARD Interface Specification, it was recognized that it repeated a large portion of the requirements in the original CableCARD 1.0 interface specification. Having two separate specifications with duplicate requirements meant a tough job keeping everything lined up as specification clarifications came in from implementing teams. To resolve this, CableLabs began the process of merging the original (single-stream) CableCARD 1.0 interface specification with the new Multistream card interface specification. This combined specification includes all requirements for both previous specifications and is known as the CableCARD Interface Specification 2.0 or CCIF-2.0. A companion document that combined the requirements of the copy-protection specifications also was developed and is known as the CableCARD Copy Protection Specification 2.0 or CCCP-2.0. It is anticipated that most cable operators will simply migrate to the Multistream CableCARDs for all CableCARD uses. Multistream CableCARDs will work, in a backwards compatible manner, in Hosts that were originally built to the single stream CableCARD standard.

CableCARD 2.0

These new CableCARD-2.0 specifications were issued on March 31, 2005; at the same time the former CCIF 1.0 and Multistream Card (M-Card™) specifications were closed. Along with this update, changes were made to all related OpenCable specifications to require use of the new CCIF-2.0 and CCCP-2.0 in all places that previously referenced the former specifications. Beginning June 6, 2005, all CableLabs certifications of OpenCable products have been tied to CableCARD-2.0 (or CCIF-2.0) specifications. As of that date, new Cards and new Hosts have been certified to support the CCIF-2.0 and CCCP-2.0 specifications.

CableCARD Terminology

Since CableCARD-2.0 Interface specifications now included all the requirements from both the original (single-stream) CableCARD interface and the new (multi-stream) CableCARD interface, terminology was developed to distinguish between the two different operating modes and product types:

S-CARD: A two-way CableCARD module that follows the original CableCARD 1.0 Interface specification or implements only the single-stream portion of the CableCARD-2.0 Interface specification.


M-Card: A two-way CableCARD module that implements all of the multi-stream functionality as well as the single-stream functionality (for backward compatibility purposes) of the CableCARD-2.0 Interface specification.


S-Mode: The operating mode of the interface when the original parallel transfer function is being used in single-stream mode, which limits the video transfer rate to 40 Mbps in each direction.


M-Mode: The operating mode of the interface when the new serial transfer function is being used, regardless of how many transport streams are actually being delivered, to provide up to 200 Mbps data transfer rate for the video stream in each direction.


S-Host: An OpenCable Host 2.0 device or UDCP that operates exclusively in the S-Mode, regardless of how many tuners are included.


M-Host: An OpenCable Host 2.0 device or UDCP that has implemented the M-Mode variation of the interface, regardless of how many tuners the device includes.

Migration to Multistream Support

There are four types of devices that can be authorized to use the CableCARD module interface. This electronic authorization comes in the form of digital certificates that are embedded within the Host receiving device that accepts a CableCARD module. In order to receive these digital certificates a manufacturer must sign a license and build a product according to certain requirements.

The first type of Host product that can make use of the CableCARD module is the Unidirectional Digital Cable Product (UDCP) or "Digital Cable-Ready Receiver." These products were defined by FCC rules. The license a manufacturer signs for such products is the DFAST license and the requirements are found in the Joint Test Suite Conformance Checklist: PICS Proforma. For more information, please see www.cablelabs.com.

A second type of Host product is an M-UDCP device or a unidirectional receiver that uses an M-Card operating in M-Mode. In other words, a product that supports multiple tuners with a single CableCARD.

The third type of Host product that can use the CableCARD module is the OpenCable Unidirectional Receiver (OCUR). The OCUR employs DRM technology (e.g., WMDRM and Real Helix), and is used to provide premium digital cable content to certain PCs. The PC itself must meet certain criteria established by the DRM provider, but is not certified separately by CableLabs. OCUR products are defined by CableLabs OpenCable specifications and the manufacturer must sign the CHILA license. The product must follow the requirements defined by the CableLabs OCUR specifications and DRI specifications. Presently these devices are required to support the S-Mode interface, but work is underway to extend their support to allow the M-Mode interface.

The fourth type of Host product that can make use of the CableCARD module is an OpenCable Host 2.0 device. This device is licensed by CableLabs under CHILA and the requirements for this product are found in the Host-CFR-2.0 specification. The main difference between this product and that which is defined by the FCC is the support for two-way functionality. The OpenCable Host 2.0 device specifications include all of the requirements necessary to support two-way cable services (e.g. video-on-demand or switched digital video), while UDCP devices do not. It is important to note that it is the receiver implementation that determines support for two-way services, not the functionality of the CableCARD module. All CableCARD modules are two-way capable.

The two-way OpenCable Host products originally were required to support the S-Mode interface and were exclusively an S-Host. The first two-way OpenCable products certified followed these requirements. Later requirements were changed for OpenCable devices mandating the M-Mode interface as a baseline.

Compatibility and Backward Compatibility of CableCARD Modules and Host Devices

Care was taken in the development of the multistream interface specification to ensure full backward compatibility. This is achieved by specific requirements on both the Host side and the Card side of the interface.

First it was established that the CableCARD module takes responsibility for operating in both modes, depending on the capabilities of the Host. This means that every M-Card is required to be able to operate equally in both the S-Mode and in the M-Mode and to be capable of sensing the capabilities of the Host.

When an M-Card is inserted into an S-Host, the CableCARD module will sense that the Host is designed for the S-Mode and will follow the S-Mode protocol. From the Host perspective, the CableCARD module will look and function like any other S-Card.

If that same M-Card is inserted into an M-Host, the CableCARD module senses that the Host is designed for the M-Mode and follows the M-Mode protocols, using the latest 3DES security and enabling the faster transport speeds capable of supporting multiple tuners.

This backward compatibility provision of the CableCARD module permits cable operators to migrate smoothly to an exclusive inventory of M-Cards that will be used for all products, with no further need to purchase or inventory older S-Cards.

Placing the backward compatibility burdens on the CableCARD modules assists Host manufacturers by freeing them from any obligation to include redundant or unnecessary circuitry while allowing them to take full advantage of the lower cost hardware design of the M-Mode interface.

Two-Way Functionality of CableCARDs and Host Devices

The ability to support two-way and interactive cable services such as VOD and SDV is a responsibility shared between the CableCARD module and the Host. There are circuits and functionalities needed on both sides of the CableCARD module interface to complete the connection and to enable full two-way signaling.

First, it is important to understand how two-way cable communication works at a high level. The two-way communications are broken down into the downstream and upstream directions. The downstream communication path describes the messages that flow from the cable headend to the subscriber device and the upstream communications are those that flow from the subscriber device back (up) to the headend. From the cable headend perspective, downstream = talking, while upstream = listening. From the subscriber equipment perspective, downstream is for listening and upstream is for talking.

All UDPC devices, M-UDCP devices, OpenCable Host devices and CableCARD modules support downstream channels, but only CableCARD modules and OpenCable Host 2.0 devices support upstream channels.

There are three distinct languages (or protocols) that are used on cable systems for the two-way communications: (1) Aloha (the protocol, defined by the ANSI/SCTE 55-1 standard, used by Motorola systems); (2) DAVIC (the protocol, defined by the ANSI/SCTE 55-2 standard, used by Scientific Atlanta systems); and (3) DSG (the protocol, defined by the ANSI/SCTE-106 DOCSIS Set-top Gateway standard, used by a variety of cable systems). All three protocols transmit their upstream signals on channels in the 5 MHz to 42 MHz frequency band. In order for a Host to support two-way services on any cable system, it must be capable of transmitting upstream signals using any of the three protocols. Only products compliant with the OpenCable Host 2.0 specifications include the transmitters capable of supporting all three upstream protocols. Products built to the Plug & Play or Digital Cable Ready (DCR) FCC requirements are unidirectional only, and do not include these transmitters and are unable to support two-way services.

On the other hand, CableCARD modules always were designed to support two-way functionality, including the original CableCARD 1.0 interface specifications. The CableCARD module includes the knowledge of the upstream transmission standards and protocols used by each cable operator and is able to format and prepare messages for that protocol. Those upstream messages are sent to the Host device for transmission (when so equipped). The upstream transmitter also is under the complete control of the CableCARD module to set frequency and output power. CableCARD modules are equipped to recognize the presence of these upstream transmitters in an OpenCable Host device and to use them as necessary. They also are able to detect the absence of this transmitter in a unidirectional Host and to operate in a one-way mode.

1 For example: (1) From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia; (2) “A CableCard That Hasn't Been Able to Kill the Set-Top Box,” Eric A. Taub, The New York Times, 2006-07-03; (3) CableCARD: A Primer, Nate Anderson , ars technica 2006-02-06; (4) FAQ: CableCard? What's that?, Richard Shim and Jim Hu, CNET (2005-01-05). [back]

2 CS Docket 97-80 Second Report and Order, Adopted: September 10, 2003. [back]

http://www.opencable.com/primer/cablecard_primer.html

Note: See the web site for Hot Links. This article shows why there is confusion and I hope it clears up some of the confusion.

Such wild suppositions are indicative of a state of denial, which influences your opinion regarding the TiVo S3. Although your rash assumptions are totally off-base & without merit, they serve to provide a modicum of entertainment for the individuals who are following this thread.NOW who's drinking the Kool-Aid?

NOW who's drinking the Kool-Aid?Tastes good. :)

"the Series3 HD DVR will support M-Cards in single-stream mode"

I think that the S3 is a wonderful product for those of us who decided to buy it, despite its very high cost. I put off buying mine for nearly three months because of its high cost but have been happy with my decision.

I don’t try to deny that there are at least as many reasons not to buy an S3 as there are for doing so but the whiners who didn’t buy one and righteously tell those of us who did so here and in the S3 threads at TiVo Community Forum that we were stupid make me tired, too. We decided to buy our S3s despite the economics of doing so, not because of them. The naysayers should think about it.

Currently, the Series3 HD DVR will support M-Cards in single-stream mode, which means that the DVR requires two (2) CableCARDs to run in dual-tuner mode. The DVR must also be running software version 8.0.1c or later. (S-Cards are supported in all software versions.) . . .We are exploring support of M-Cards in multi-stream mode for the Series3 HD DVR.

The TiVo HD DVR supports multi-stream mode for M-Cards. This means that the TiVo HD DVR requires only one (1) M-Card to receive two digital cable channels at once.

http://customersupport.tivo.com/TiVoCollection/BB83AE57-EA46-4162-AB65-4BFDE6A851E4/ins_Content.html#tivoHD

I think that the S3 is a wonderful product for those of us who decided to buy it, despite its very high cost. I put off buying mine for nearly three months because of its high cost but have been happy with my decision.

I don’t try to deny that there are at least as many reasons not to buy an S3 as there are for doing so but the whiners who didn’t buy one and righteously tell those of us who did so here and in the S3 threads at TiVo Community Forum that we were stupid make me tired, too. We decided to buy our S3s despite the economics of doing so, not because of them. The naysayers should think about it.I'm willing to bet no one in this forum ever called you "stupid."

And I don't understand why the TiVo fan boys refer to anyone who does not share their opinion regarding the S3 as a "whiner" or some "righteous" crusader looking to chastise someone's purchase decision?

...And I don't understand why the TiVo fan boys refer to anyone who does not share their opinion regarding the S3 as a "whiner" ...Another sip taken I see...

Such wild suppositions are indicative of a state of denial, which influences your opinion regarding the TiVo S3. Although your rash assumptions are totally off-base & without merit, they serve to provide a modicum of entertainment for the individuals who are following this thread.

Of course I didn't mention any names in my post, but 'nuff said. :D

Another sip taken I see...Of course I didn't mention any names in my postYou guy's certainly do take things personally when it comes to your electronic "toys." You must be a couple of high-school teachers (or TiVo employees) who remain mired in an adolescent’s world. :rolleyes:

My original point was simply that when talking about high end electronics you know going in that you're going to be shelling out dough. It's like hearing the owner of a Hummer complain about MPG.

My original point was simply that when talking about high end electronics you know going in that you're going to be shelling out dough. It's like hearing the owner of a Hummer complain about MPG.
I paid $5400 for a PDP during May 2005, I'd say that’s putting my money where my mouth is. By comparison an $800 TiVo seems like nickels & dimes to me. No one is jealous of any TiVo owners.

There are certain people in this forum who really dislike the S3, probably truthfully because they are jealous that many of us have them

I paid $5400 for a PDP during May 2005, I'd say that’s putting my money where my mouth is. By comparison an $800 TiVo seems like nickels & dimes to me. No one is jealous of any TiVo owners.
It really depends on what you were thinking when you bought the TV. Did you buy a great plasma TV that happened to have a CableCARD slot or did you buy a plasma TV because it had the CableCARD slot. I know many people who bought plasmas with CableCARD slots that never used them and they could care less whether it had one or not. I wouldn't really say those people invested anything in CableCARD. Now you may have chosen this plasma over a similar model that didn't have CableCARD. The price difference may have been $500. Then you are really only $500 invested in this technology, because that is the incremental you paid for the feature. Your PDP is still useful even without the CableCARD.

What is your complaint about, the $5,400 or a feature?

You guy's certainly do take things personally when it comes to your electronic "toys." You must be a couple of high-school teachers (or TiVo employees) who remain mired in an adolescent’s world. :rolleyes:hmmm....I'd say name-calling is a grade school sport... :p

Got an S3 refurb for a fab deal and got a free one time transfer of the lifetime subscription and am very pleased with the improvements over the HR10-250....such as improved speed,better ota tuners, ethernet hookup.

Just makes me wish DirecTV still was hooked up with Tivo so I could get a couple of MPG4 Tivo units from them. Oh well.

You guy's certainly do take things personally when it comes to your electronic "toys." You must be a couple of high-school teachers (or TiVo employees) who remain mired in an adolescent’s world. :rolleyes:

You crack me up. You talk about things like "I remember a different America" and then talk about how adolescent we are. I suppose I can be a bit adolescent I'll admit that but certainly no more then you. And as far as "remembering a different America", I'm 54 years old so unless you fought in World War II don't even go there with me.

If you think the S3 is such a pos and waste of money why do you continue to come here? And what in the heck does your TV have to do with an S3 other then it uses a cable card?

TiVo "fanboys" definitely do take negative comments about our TiVos personally. That's because we understand what a great product TiVo is. So when you get slapped upside your head for making "speculations" or crying about your ownTV don't be surprised.

I drank the D* Kool-Aid for a long time. Now that I got the S3 and gave my local cable operator a 2nd chance I am thrilled with it! I have all of my HD locals, HD-RSNs and premium movie HD channels with full TiVo capability. I'll obviously be upset if I lose some of these to SDV but if it's that big a deal I'll rent the crappy 8300HD for those. With any luck TiVo will come out with SDV communication over the Ethernet port by then.

I drank the D* Kool-Aid for a long time. Now that I got the S3 and gave my local cable operator a 2nd chance I am thrilled with it! I have all of my HD locals, HD-RSNs and premium movie HD channels with full TiVo capability. I'll obviously be upset if I lose some of these to SDV but if it's that big a deal I'll rent the crappy 8300HD for those. With any luck TiVo will come out with SDV communication over the Ethernet port by then.


Yeah, that's an alternative but what guarantee do you have that if you rent that pos it's going to record anything anyway? Seriously.

I'm hoping TiVo gets SDV resolved somehow. In the meantime I'm not going to worry about it.

It really depends on what you were thinking when you bought the TV. Did you buy a great plasma TV that happened to have a CableCARD slot or did you buy a plasma TV because it had the CableCARD slot.Bingo! I wanted to acquire a PDP that was capable of supporting a direct digital input signal from my CATV provider, thus my failed unidirectional cable ready TV w/CableCARD slot experiment.

So what's so great about an HD TiVo anyway? With no support for on-demand, SDV, eSATA, IEEE 1394; other than a slick UI there really isn't much that differentiates TiVo from an 8300HDC. I don’t get it.

other than a slick UI there really isn't much that differentiates TiVo from an 8300HDC. I don’t get it.
At this point in the thread if the features TiVo does have don't interest you then the product is not for you, so it is good you don't get it or you would be disappointed. Other folks have different priorities.

At this point in the thread if the features TiVo does have don't interest you then the product is not for you, so it is good you don't get it or you would be disappointed. Other folks have different priorities.After investing many $$$$ on HD TV gear during the past six years I won't pay a lot more for any additional hardware until the A/V equipment manufacturers stop nickel & diming consumers with their feature sets.

I would buy a 180-hour TiVo® HD DVR for $299.99 if it came with an active eSATA & IEEE 1394 interface. If I purchased one right now and factor in the subscription fee my HD TiVo would cost $598.99 :eek: for a device that does nothing different than any other HD DVR, so as with the S3 I will pass on the cheaper HD DVR for now & stick with TWs $20 per month 8300HDC until a DVR can do more than just time-shift HD CATV programming.

Great, we now know exactly why you are sticking with the SA8300. No doubt this is the best possible decision for your needs.

I would buy a 180-hour TiVo® HD DVR for $299.99 if it came with an active eSATA & IEEE 1394 interface. If I purchased one right now and factor in the subscription fee my HD TiVo would cost $598.99 :eek: for a device that does nothing different than any other HD DVR, so as with the S3 I will pass on the cheaper HD DVR for now & stick with TWs $20 per month 8300HDC until a DVR can do more than just time-shift HD CATV programming.

Well, it does do many things different. Like it has a wishlist, it's capable of playing your music over your wireless system. You can show pictures stored on your computer. It can find programs that it thinks you like and record them for you. It has suggestions which are based on your thumbs up and down, and the new swivel search. The regular search feature alone trumps the SA 8300. It also comes with Tivomatic that allows you to record something that a network is showing a preview of.

Oh yeah one other thing. It actually will record something when you ask it to. Something the SA 8300 failed frequently to do for me. I've had VCR's that were more dependable.

Well, it does do many things different. Like it has a wishlist, it's capable of playing your music over your wireless system. You can show pictures stored on your computer. It can find programs that it thinks you like and record them for you. It has suggestions which are based on your thumbs up and down, and the new swivel search. The regular search feature alone trumps the SA 8300. It also comes with Tivomatic that allows you to record something that a network is showing a preview of.Don't forget the ability to purchase and rent video from Amazon Unbox and to download video for free from a variety of TivoCast sites. There's also an Internet radio playing app. There's an open development kit for TiVo network apps and new ones pop up from time to time.

Well, it does do many things different. Like it has a wishlist, it's capable of playing your music over your wireless system. You can show pictures stored on your computer. It can find programs that it thinks you like and record them for you. It has suggestions which are based on your thumbs up and down, and the new swivel search. The regular search feature alone trumps the SA 8300. It also comes with Tivomatic that allows you to record something that a network is showing a preview of.

Oh yeah one other thing. It actually will record something when you ask it to. Something the SA 8300 failed frequently to do for me. I've had VCR's that were more dependable.
Those things are only important to some of us :)

.. so as with the S3 I will pass on the cheaper HD DVR for now & stick with TWs $20 per month 8300HDC until a DVR can do more than just time-shift HD CATV programming.

Yet, this is what you said just last month in another thread...

.. .."Since I refuse to pay Time Warner ~$20 per month for their crappy SA8300 DVR."

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10802465#post10802465


You are certainly an amusing individual...

So what's so great about an HD TiVo anyway? With no support for on-demand,

Yet, just recently you said this..

"How many different not-so-premium HD channels does one need to watch reruns of old movies that have been viewed many times before?"

I'd say that pretty much describes on-demand from the cable co's.

Yet, this is what you said just last month in another thread...



http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10802465#post10802465


You are certainly an amusing individual...

Gosh, what happens when you have a debate with yourself and lose. Those are amusing links. :D

.. I paid $5400 for a PDP during May 2005, I'd say that’s putting my money where my mouth is. By comparison an $800 TiVo seems like nickels & dimes to me.

Then there's this...

I would buy a 180-hour TiVo® HD DVR for $299.99 if it came with an active eSATA & IEEE 1394 interface. If I purchased one right now and factor in the subscription fee my HD TiVo would cost $598.99 :eek:


Then, finally...

After investing many $$$$ on HD TV gear during the past six years I won't pay a lot more for any additional hardware until the A/V equipment manufacturers stop nickel & diming consumers with their feature sets.

You must be talking about that all important feature set of on-demand, right? :D

It must be tough living a life of contradictory, hypocritical schizophrenia. I hope you get the help you need. :eek: My amusement of you has turned into serious concern.

Then there's this...




Then, finally...



You must be talking about that all important feature set of on-demand, right? :D

It must be tough living a life of contradictory, hypocritical schizophrenia. I hope you get the help you need. :eek: My amusement of you has turned into serious concern.

Okay, I guess I have moments where I'm not sensitive enough to a persons real problems, I'll quit laughing too.

Gosh, what happens when you have a debate with yourself and lose.Sorry guy's but I reserve the right to change my opinion and those statements you quote, which are taken out of context, were made when only the four-year-old 8300 was available from ATW. It's not a money issue & except for HBO's original programming (currently JfC, Entourage & Flight of the Conchords) I'm still not very impressed with HBO's/Showtime's movie/on-demand offerings. In addition the aging SA8300HD DVR I was renting at the time had become so unreliable I was compelled to drop the DVR and not-so-premium movie channels in protest.

That attitude changed enough when Time Warner offered me a Cisco branded, 8300HDC to rent I became willing to add HBO/Showtime back to the package and only because my local cable provider carries these channels in HD. Remember, I can drop these services anytime I wish.

Again, if a $600 TiVo did something significantly different from a $20 per month 8300HDC (e.g. archive HD content) I'd buy one, but not until then.

Again, if a $600 TiVo did something significantly different from a $20 per month 8300HDC (e.g. archive HD content) I'd buy one, but not until then.
It does, but you don't consider them significant, so don't buy one. It will be better for you this way.

Those things are only important to some of us :)

You must be referring to the part of my quote where I said it actually records when you tell it to. ;)

Yeah, only a few people care about that. :)

Again, if a $600 TiVo did something significantly different from a $20 per month 8300HDC (e.g. archive HD content) I'd buy one, but not until then.

But when we started talking about all this we were talking about the 300.00 TiVo HD, not the S3.

I would buy a 180-hour TiVo® HD DVR for $299.99 if it came with an active eSATA & IEEE 1394 interface. If I purchased one right now and factor in the subscription fee my HD TiVo would cost $598.99 for a device that does nothing different than any other HD DVR, so as with the S3 I will pass on the cheaper HD DVR for now & stick with TWs $20 per month 8300HDC until a DVR can do more than just time-shift HD CATV programming.

It does, but you don't consider them significant, so don't buy one. It will be better for you this way.OK I won't.

I will continue to bide my time for now leasing a "brand new" $20 per month 8300HDC DVR while I look forward to the not-too-distant, post Feb. 2009 future, of the day when consumers will be able to buy HD DVRs @ BB & CC made by A/V equipment manufacturers like Pioneer & Panasonic w/dual ATSC/QAM tuners, PIC in PIC, MPEG-4, Firewire support & SAS disk RAID arrays :D for unparalleled performance! :cool:

Then subscribe to a TiVoesk like programming service designed for the hardware and there will be a potpourri of HD digital services to choose from all of which are delivered into the home by TW and/or Verizon FiOS TV. :)

It does, but you don't consider them significant, so don't buy one. It will be better for you this way.

And you may want to unsubscribe this thread since you have repeatedly said you won't get this STB. Kind of a waste of your time :eek:

And you may want to unsubscribe this thread since you have repeatedly said you won't get this STB. Kind of a waste of your time :eek:

+1

:D :D :D

I will continue to bide my time for now leasing a "brand new" $20 per month 8300HDC DVR while I look forward to the not-too-distant, post Feb. 2009 future, of the day when consumers will be able to buy HD DVRs @ BB & CC made by A/V equipment manufacturers like Pioneer & Panasonic w/dual ATSC/QAM tuners, PIC in PIC, MPEG-4, Firewire support & SAS disk RAID arrays :D for unparalleled performance! :cool:

Then subscribe to a TiVoesk like programming service designed for the hardware and there will be a potpourri of HD digital services to choose from all of which are delivered into the home by TW and/or Verizon FiOS TV. :)
Good luck with that.

I will continue to bide my time for now leasing a "brand new" $20 per month 8300HDC DVR while I look forward to the not-too-distant, post Feb. 2009 future, of the day when consumers will be able to buy HD DVRs @ BB & CC made by A/V equipment manufacturers like Pioneer & Panasonic w/dual ATSC/QAM tuners, PIC in PIC, MPEG-4, Firewire support & SAS disk RAID arrays :D for unparalleled performance! :cool:

Then subscribe to a TiVoesk like programming service designed for the hardware and there will be a potpourri of HD digital services to choose from all of which are delivered into the home by TW and/or Verizon FiOS TV. :)

This seems a delusional fantasy, but typical thinking on your part. The historical fact is that Sony recently tried this with their disastrous DHG500, which was discontinued a mere 6 months after it's launch. Good luck with Pioneer and Panasonic getting it right. You must like to play craps at the casino.

Sorry, I gotta go, it's almost time for me to set up my Tivo to get a season pass for the new fall shows. That would be first run only episodes, no repeats, 2 minute overlap so the end doesn't get cut, SD shows will get best quality recording, HD shows get less,etc.. I like John Wayne movies, so I already have a screen to catch all of them. Life is good! I'm going to have to check out this new Tivo feature set called swivel search, sounds like it will be very useful!

This seems a delusional fantasy, but typical thinking on your part. The historical fact is that Sony recently tried this with their disastrous DHG500, which was discontinued a mere 6 months after it's launch. Good luck with Pioneer and Panasonic getting it right. You must like to play craps at the casino.I'm not into gambling, which is why I did not buy a DHG500 either.

Mark my words... eventually DRM will evolve to the point where individuals can subscribe to services that permit copy once HD programming w/archiving to external media for personal use. Until then, continue to enjoy your over-priced, emasculated, TiVo. :)

I'm not into gambling, which is why I did not buy a DHG500 either.

Mark my words... eventually DMR will evolve to the point where individuals can subscribe to services that permit copy once HD programming w/archiving to external media for personal use. Until then, continue to enjoy your over-priced, emasculated, TiVo. :)

I corrected your statement. I think you are referring to Digital Media Recrorder. DRM, I don't know what that is.

Sorry, I gotta go, it's almost time for me to set up my Tivo to get a season pass for the new fall shows. That would be first run only episodes, no repeats, 2 minute overlap so the end doesn't get cut, SD shows will get best quality recording, HD shows get less,etc.. I like John Wayne movies, so I already have a screen to catch all of them. Life is good! I'm going to have to check out this new Tivo feature set called swivel search, sounds like it will be very useful!

You can't control the quality of HD or digital shows. Only analog.

If you haven't played with the swivel search, you're really going to like it. Try just using John Wayne and see where it takes you. :)

I corrected your statement. I think you are referring to Digital Media Recrorder. DRM, I don't know what that is.Digital Rights Management (DRM) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management)

Digital Rights Management (DRM) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management)

OK. I should have known better then to challenge you on that. :) So there is the DRM, DMR, DMV, BMV, and of course the ever famous BFD.

For those of you who don't live in Ohio we have a Bureau of Motor Vehicles.

I'm not into gambling, which is why I did not buy a DHG500 either.

Mark my words... eventually DRM will evolve to the point where individuals can subscribe to services that permit copy once HD programming w/archiving to external media for personal use. Until then, continue to enjoy your over-priced, emasculated, TiVo. :)What makes you think that TiVo isn't prepared for that day? They have a broadband interface over which they can do secure transfers for archiving using DTCP-IP and USB 2 connections which could be used for sending things to recorders using USB/DTCP. A copy-then-delete scheme for DVRs has long been suggested in the standards docs.

Anyone else's HD Tivo order showing a status of 'shipped'? I thought they weren't going out for a few weeks?

Anyone else's HD Tivo order showing a status of 'shipped'? I thought they weren't going out for a few weeks?

I'm curious. Did you order directly through TiVo? I remember when the S3 first went out TiVo did a horrible job of getting those things out. Do you have a tracking number?

Anyway let us know when you do get it. And how you like it.

Anyone else's HD Tivo order showing a status of 'shipped'? I thought they weren't going out for a few weeks?
Other folks who ordered on tivo.com have reported shipped with a tracking #.

Various CC have them in stock locally.

It just says shipped on tivo's website, I didn't get an email or tracking number. Guess I'll come home to a nice surprise sometime next week.

Edit: Just called Tivo. The operator thinks the warehouse has my Tivo ready to ship but didn't get it to UPS yet. I should have a tracking number tomorrow.

Mark my words... eventually DRM will evolve to the point where individuals can subscribe to services that permit copy once HD programming w/archiving to external media for personal use.

Not that I want to drag this out any longer but aren't you taking a lot on faith with that statement? By that logic TiVo may have figured out the SDV/PPV issue long before then.

Between now and then my emasculated TiVo will have given me thousands of hours of reliable use. My rented boxes for the downstairs SDTVs have already required 2 service calls and a trip to the cable store to swap one in the time my TiVo has been perfect. :)

Not that I want to drag this out any longer but aren't you taking a lot on faith with that statement? By that logic TiVo may have figured out the SDV/PPV issue long before then.

Between now and then my emasculated TiVo will have given me thousands of hours of reliable use. My rented boxes for the downstairs SDTVs have already required 2 service calls and a trip to the cable store to swap one in the time my TiVo has been perfect. :)Try an 8300HDC... $20 per month versus $600.

I tend to agree here. I just started looking at this HD Tivo box (never used Tivo), and while it has a couple very nice features, the $300+$300 = $600/3 yr service = $16.67/mo. add 2 cable cards ($5.30) = $22 My 8300HD is $14.00/mo. I have 500g eSATA attached, never more than half full. Yeah I don't like the guide on the 8300, but I can live with it. I save $288 over 3 years and can buy another eSATA (or two) with that!

After investing many $$$$ on HD TV gear during the past six years I won't pay a lot more for any additional hardware until the A/V equipment manufacturers stop nickel & diming consumers with their feature sets.

I would buy a 180-hour TiVo® HD DVR for $299.99 if it came with an active eSATA & IEEE 1394 interface. If I purchased one right now and factor in the subscription fee my HD TiVo would cost $598.99 :eek: for a device that does nothing different than any other HD DVR, so as with the S3 I will pass on the cheaper HD DVR for now & stick with TWs $20 per month 8300HDC until a DVR can do more than just time-shift HD CATV programming.

Try an 8300HDC... $20 per month versus $600.

Do you honestly thing that sticking the letters HDC is going to improve the quality of that pos? And as far as Ciscoe brand, hell they've owned SA for a couple of years now.

And again we are talking the TiVo HD not the S3. Thats 300.00.

If it doesn't record when you want it to it's junk.

I tend to agree here. I just started looking at this HD Tivo box (never used Tivo), and while it has a couple very nice features, the $300+$300 = $600/3 yr service = $16.67/mo. add 2 cable cards ($5.30) = $22 My 8300HD is $14.00/mo. I have 500g eSATA attached, never more than half full. Yeah I don't like the guide on the 8300, but I can live with it. I save $288 over 3 years and can buy another eSATA (or two) with that!

If it actually records for you then fine. I had 3 of them and none of them worked correctly.

My S3 is worth every penny I paid for it.

I haven't seen anyone include the WAF credit when doing the ROI for a Tivo S3 or the new Tivo HD. :)

I was only comparing to the $300 model (160g HD)... I added the other $300 for 36 months of fees. I just can't see paying the cable company for cards AND paying Tivo just for a good guide. I guess I'm lucky, my 8300 has hit every show I set(although has missed the last 10 minutes once or twice). I really don't record a lot, so I don't really know how "bad" it really is. I can't get OTA where I am. Now if I could get OTA and drop cable altogether, Tivo looks like a very good choice.

I was only comparing to the $300 model (160g HD)... I added the other $300 for 36 months of fees. I just can't see paying the cable company for cards AND paying Tivo just for a good guide.

Since the S3 was the second Tivo in my house, I'm only paying $6.95 a month for 3 years. That's the multi-unit discount Tivo gives you. I gave the S2 to my kids in the basement, it has the lifetime agreement.

Try an 8300HDC... $20 per month versus $600.

Ummm.... If you're going to use the cost between the two boxes as a justification for not going with TiVo, you might actually want to do the math yourself before sticking your foot in your mouth (as you're prone to do).

8300POS : $0 upfront + $20/month * 12month/year * 3years = $720

TiVoHD : $299 upfront + $299 3-year service plan + CableCARD fees (varies) = $598 + the cards

Oooops!

Lemme see.... Do I pay more for the crappy rental box, or less for the superior box ? Gee, that's a tough one. :(

Ummm.... If you're going to use the cost between the two boxes as a justification for not going with TiVo, you might actually want to do the math yourself before sticking your foot in your mouth (as you're prone to do).

8300POS : $0 upfront + $20/month * 12month/year * 3years = $720

TiVoHD : $299 upfront + $299 3-year service plan + CableCARD fees (varies) = $598 + the cards

Oooops!

Lemme see.... Do I pay more for the crappy rental box, or less for the superior box ? Gee, that's a tough one. :(
Not to mention, with most cable systems, including Comcast, you have to subscribe to a bunch of crap programming you don't want, known in Comcast land as Expanded Basic, which runs around $25-30 a month, to have the "privilege" of renting their DVR.

Ummm.... If you're going to use the cost between the two boxes as a justification for not going with TiVo, you might actually want to do the math yourself before sticking your foot in your mouth (as you're prone to do).

8300POS : $0 upfront + $20/month * 12month/year * 3years = $720

TiVoHD : $299 upfront + $299 3-year service plan + CableCARD fees (varies) = $598 + the cards

Oooops!

Lemme see.... Do I pay more for the crappy rental box, or less for the superior box ? Gee, that's a tough one. :(FINALLY...some common sense around here :D

Now that my home theater is up and running, I popped over to BB to see what the S3 TiVos were running these days, more than half because I want to, at long last, take advantage of the optical digital out. For whatever reason, my new HT processor can't get a lock on my current satellite Tivo (series 1, I guess, based on the years we've had it).

Was told there that the new S3's won't work with DirecTv, that I had to get DirecTv's dvr. I scanned this thread, but I wanted to be sure, is there NO work-around? I've read enough negative comments about the software in the DirecTv dvr to lean toward living with my composite L/R connections and no HD in my old unit -- if there is no work-around, what's on the horizon if I decide to wait?

Now that my home theater is up and running, I popped over to BB to see what the S3 TiVos were running these days, more than half because I want to, at long last, take advantage of the optical digital out. For whatever reason, my new HT processor can't get a lock on my current satellite Tivo (series 1, I guess, based on the years we've had it).

Was told there that the new S3's won't work with DirecTv, that I had to get DirecTv's dvr. I scanned this thread, but I wanted to be sure, is there NO work-around? I've read enough negative comments about the software in the DirecTv dvr to lean toward living with my composite L/R connections and no HD in my old unit -- if there is no work-around, what's on the horizon if I decide to wait?

Thats correct... S3 wont work with any source other that Cable or OTA Antenna.

My calculation:
8300POS : $0 upfront + $14/month * 12month/year * 3years = $504
TiVoHD : $299 upfront + $299 3-year service plan + CableCARD fees ($190.80) = $788.80

What are you (Keenan) subscribing to, to "get what you want"? Yes I get a lot of "crap" but I do get the other stuff I want. The only real advantage I see with Tivo, is you can hide the "crap". Then again I know nothing about Tivo... they don't give you any programming do they? It's just a PVR tat you have to pay to use, right? You still have to subscrib to programming "somewhere".

Even if Comcast gave me free cable I wouldn't use their HD DVR offering here. My brother has a couple of their Scientific Atlanta boxes and they have never been reliable. He has to set recording s on his PC as a backup since he never knows if the SA box will record anything. I would rather pay TiVo than have Comcast give me free service every month and use that crappy box.

My calculation:
8300POS : $0 upfront + $14/month * 12month/year * 3years = $504
TiVoHD : $299 upfront + $299 3-year service plan + CableCARD fees ($190.80) = $788.80
That's in the neighborhood of what my calculation runs for TWC NEO.

Then I have to factor in that new programming being added (that I value) will very possibly be SDV. That one is hard to quantify. But if even two valued HD channels get added via SDV, I can see being an unhappy camper...especially with that potentially happening in a year or less.

Ummm.... If you're going to use the cost between the two boxes as a justification for not going with TiVo, you might actually want to do the math yourself before sticking your foot in your mouth (as you're prone to do).

8300POS : $0 upfront + $20/month * 12month/year * 3years = $720

TiVoHD : $299 upfront + $299 3-year service plan + CableCARD fees (varies) = $598 + the cards

Oooops!

Lemme see.... Do I pay more for the crappy rental box, or less for the superior box ? Gee, that's a tough one. :("+ the cards"??? Not to rain on your parade, but CableCARDs typically lease for $1.75 to $2.50 a month each, making them a non-insignificant part of the equation. Even at $1.75 a month, that's $42/year or $126 over that 3 year period, making the total slightly more than the cable box option ($724), and significantly more for those paying that high-end $5/month for a pair of CableCARDs ($778).

Of course, TiVo's still superior and definitely worth a little more :).

My calculation:
8300POS : $0 upfront + $14/month * 12month/year * 3years = $504
TiVoHD : $299 upfront + $299 3-year service plan + CableCARD fees ($190.80) = $788.80

What are you (Keenan) subscribing to, to "get what you want"? Yes I get a lot of "crap" but I do get the other stuff I want. The only real advantage I see with Tivo, is you can hide the "crap". Then again I know nothing about Tivo... they don't give you any programming do they? It's just a PVR tat you have to pay to use, right? You still have to subscrib to programming "somewhere".

You're getting reamed on CableCARDs. I'm paying $1.75/month for two with Comcast. Who's your provider ?

Now that my home theater is up and running, I popped over to BB to see what the S3 TiVos were running these days, more than half because I want to, at long last, take advantage of the optical digital out. For whatever reason, my new HT processor can't get a lock on my current satellite Tivo (series 1, I guess, based on the years we've had it).

Was told there that the new S3's won't work with DirecTv, that I had to get DirecTv's dvr. I scanned this thread, but I wanted to be sure, is there NO work-around? I've read enough negative comments about the software in the DirecTv dvr to lean toward living with my composite L/R connections and no HD in my old unit -- if there is no work-around, what's on the horizon if I decide to wait?

Correct. The Series3 and TiVoHD only tune over-the-air (OTA) and cable (analog and digital). They do not have satellite tuners, nor can they accept the analog outputs from another device, such as a satellite receiver.

I can't imagine why your processor can't lock onto the the DirecTiVo's Toslink. Have you verified that the optical input's working on the receiver with another piece of equipment (such as a DVD player) ? Otherwise, you could try to convert the Toslink digital audio to a coaxial digital audio and see if that remedies the situation. For around $15 you could get something like THIS (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10423&cs_id=1042302&p_id=2948&seq=1&format=2&style=) to try it out.

TWC, says $2.65 each on the web site (Austin). I don't use them, only looked up the number. I consider myself "lucky" from all the negative I've heard about the 8300 box and TWC. All my HD locals (including Fox), Disc., ESPN, and TNT look much better than CD quality, and almost all my SD stations look as good as CD quality. The only station I watch that could be better (much better) is SciFi, after I zoom it to full screen. Everyone's rates suck...

I haven't seen anyone include the WAF credit when doing the ROI for a Tivo S3 or the new Tivo HD. :)
My wife hates the 3416 (we all know why! **), and so we have both an S2 and a 3416 in the spare bedroom where she does most of her TV watching. (We watch movies in the family room with the larger screen.) Even though the S2 doesn't do HD, it does many things correctly. She said last year to get the S3 for her, but I dragged my feet expecting the TiVo upgrade to the Motorola box (I'm the tight wad in the family). With the new TiVo HD she, like many others, is telling me to send the 3416 back. We are moving to a new house in August, so this gives me a while to see how others review it, then I'll give it to her as a house-warming gift.

We may save money since Comcast charges $17.95 for that second DVR. I'm probably over estimating card costs, but for three years:
TiVo: $300 + $300 (3 years) + $6 (cards) x 36 = $816
3416: $18 x 36 = $648 + $312 (second S2) = $960

Conservatively, we'll use two years:
TiVo: $300 + $180 (2 years) + $6 (cards) x 24 = $624
3416: $18 x 24 = $432 + $156 (second S2) = $588

And if I replace the 3416 in the family room, will I get a discount on its TiVo subscription? I'd have to check on that. And over three years, well, if you want, you do the numbers.

And how does this compare to the price of an HD TV and any audio equipment you have, anyhow?

** Why does she hate the Motorola? Most importantly, no Wish Lists. Then the ugly interface (she writes code for computer interfaces), poor responsiveness, re-recording already-watched programs, and so on. (I also watch Rocket Boom, listen to podcasts, and pipe my MP3s into the bedroom with the TiVo.) And On-Demand: there is almost nothing worthwhile there that you couldn't have just recorded in the first place (assuming the DVR was successful) and O-D takes sluggishness to horrendous lengths.

Anyhow, WAF trumps a few dollars, for me.

And if I replace the 3416 in the family room, will I get a discount on its TiVo subscription? I'd have to check on that. And over three years, well, if you want, you do the numbers.You have two choices. You can either replace your S2 with a TivoHD, or you can add a TivoHD to your existing account.

If you replace the S2 with the TivoHD by going to Tivo.com -> Manage My Account -> Change My Service Number, then you will pay the same thing you are now. If you want to keep the S2 and add a TivoHD to your account, you will pay $6.95/mo for the TivoHD on a three year contract. The Tivo monthly rate is $6.00/mo less ($12.95-6 = $6.95/mo) for every box on your account after the first.

Make sure you buy your TivoHD at retail (anywhere except Tivo.com) if you want to replace the S2 on your account. If you want to replace the existing Tivo, it is important not to cancel the existing unit. Instead you use that Tivo.com -> Manage My Account -> Change My Service Number menu. That way you ensure that you do not pay anything more than you do now.

+ $6 (cards)The TivoHD requires just one MCARD or two of the older 'S' CableCards to support dual tuners. Most Comcast service areas now have MCARDs and the remainder will soon (since Motorola doesn't ship anything else now), so the CableCard fees should be $0.00 to $1.95/mo total. Just tell the installer that you want a MCARD.

My calculation:
8300POS : $0 upfront + $14/month * 12month/year * 3years = $504
TiVoHD : $299 upfront + $299 3-year service plan + CableCARD fees ($190.80) = $788.80

What are you (Keenan) subscribing to, to "get what you want"? Yes I get a lot of "crap" but I do get the other stuff I want. The only real advantage I see with Tivo, is you can hide the "crap". Then again I know nothing about Tivo... they don't give you any programming do they? It's just a PVR tat you have to pay to use, right? You still have to subscrib to programming "somewhere".
To use the Comcast DVR you have to subscribe to Standard Cable(Limited Basic + Expanded Basic) and Digital Classic, add in the DVR cost and the per month total comes to about $75.

Since I only want the local HD channels I had to spend $75 a month to record them, with the S3 my monthly cost is only about $20. Figure in the S3 cost and the TiVo subscription amortized over 3 years and my total monthly bill is still only about $50 per month.

I paid $800 for my S3 when they first came out, for those who have picked them up at the recent $400 price, the monthly cost would only be about $38 per month.

Plus, I can add on Digital Classic with out having to have Expanded Basic so for about $60 per month I can have all the non-premium HD channels my Comcast system provides.

My S3 has been rock solid since the day it was fired up, it's been what, 10 mos now? Plus, I can add 100+ more hours of HD recording space for a few hundred dollars, plus it has a OTA/ATSC tuner as well, and, well, it's a TiVo. In my case, getting the S3 was a no-brainer, even at the $800 price.

CableCARDS in the SF bay area are $1.50 total cost for both although it may have went up to $1.79 recently.

Do you honestly thing that sticking the letters HDC is going to improve the quality of that pos? And as far as Ciscoe brand, hell they've owned SA for a couple of years now.

And again we are talking the TiVo HD not the S3. Thats 300.00.

If it doesn't record when you want it to it's junk.I'm amazed by your opinion regarding the 8300HDC given the fact that you haven't used one. :p

HD TiVo $300 + $300 subscription fee = $600 :eek: versus my "brand new" less than $20 per month 8300. :)

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzequg9f/buy-tivo-not.JPG

Ummm.... If you're going to use the cost between the two boxes as a justification for not going with TiVo, you might actually want to do the math yourself before sticking your foot in your mouth (as you're prone to do).

8300POS : $0 upfront + $20/month * 12month/year * 3years = $720

TiVoHD : $299 upfront + $299 3-year service plan + CableCARD fees (varies) = $598 + the cards

Oooops!

Lemme see.... Do I pay more for the crappy rental box, or less for the superior box ? Gee, that's a tough one. :(Let's review here... your $600 TiVo can time shift record HDTV, my less than $20 per month 8300HDC time shift records HDTV. If/when TiVo makes a DVR with a working eSATA & IEEE 1394 port(s)... sign me up. ;)

My calculation:
8300POS : $0 upfront + $14/month * 12month/year * 3years = $504
TiVoHD : $299 upfront + $299 3-year service plan + CableCARD fees ($190.80) = $788.80Yes, that's closer to average, I believe, and really points out the reality: Both cable companies and TiVo have smart people. They're going to price their respective offerings such that a customer who is perfectly typical will be indifferent between the two options.

Let's review here... your $600 TiVo can RELIABLY time shift record HDTV, my less than $20 per month 8300HDC OCCASIONALLY time shift records HDTV and is frequently flaky. If/when TiVo makes a DVR with an IEEE 1394 port(s)... sign me up. ;)

Fixed it for you...

TiVo's eSATA solution is already here for the Series3 with the Jumpstart62 backdoor. Official support comes later this year with the Autumn software update. Besides, there are numerous reports of both the Moto and SA eSATA implementations as being fairly unreliable as currently constituted.

If a firewire port is the only thing holding you up from a superior DVR experience, I think you're just picking nits.

I'm amazed by your opinion regarding the 8300HDC given the fact that you haven't used one. :p

HD TiVo $300 + $300 subscription fee = $600 :eek: versus my "brand new" less than $20 per month 8300. :)



Well, I haven't driven a Hyndai in quite a while either, and I still think it's a pos car. My experience with the old model is what makes up my mind.

Anyway even if I wanted to try it I can't. They don't offer it in my area.

And as far as fees go, yes, you do have to pay a fee for your DVR. It's 7.00 a month in my area plus rental of the DVR, another 7.00 a month. 14.00x36= 504.00. for 96 bucks you get quality. And you own your own equipment.

Circuit City now has the TivoHD on sale for $258.99 (http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=188555&catOid=-12883&c=1&cm_re=main%20marquee-_-Introducing%20the%20new%20TiVO%20HD%20DVR%E2%80%94records%20 in%20HD%20and%20serves%20as%20a%20universal%20cable%20box-_-TiVo%20HD%20DVR).

You might be able to use the $40 off $199 coupon (http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/messageview.php?catid=18&threadid=749519&highlight_key=y&keyword1=Circuit+City+%2440) (expires 8/31) to get it for $218.99 plus tax. Only valid in store.

You can check local availability by adding the TivoHD to your cart at CircuitCity.com and selecting local pickup.

Try an 8300HDC... $20 per month versus $600.

My TiVo will last longer then 30 months. Therefore it's paying for itself. And it has MUCH better features then the 8300.

Why is everyone talking about fees and cost? Electronics cost money. Period. If you have the money the only question is the quality of the product. If you need coupons to get your electronics you're in the wrong place. I cannot think of a single sane reason for thinking that ANY cable/telco STB even comes close to the TiVo S3.

END OF STORY!

Guess you have to own one to know for sure (I've never owned Tiva). All I know is my 8300 box does a great job at all my recording and HD needs (except ability to archive); it costs an extra $7/mo with no CC required, "perfect" HD quality, on demand premiums free (after buying the main channel), all HD locals, no computer involved. Just don't see what you're paying the $8-$16/mo for (after you had to buy the equipment).... other than the guide.

I'm all for investing in equipment... just seems Tivo is too dependent on what cable companies do. What if cable companies decided to start charging $10 each for cable cards? What if you could only get analog through a cable card? Too many what iffs... At $258 at CC Tivo looks very appealing, if I could buy it and record off my 3450 box, without paying Tivo fees, I'd buy it in a minute. The SA 3450 isn't nearly as nice as the 8300, but I didn't want to pay ANOTHER $7 for a second PVR, but it'd be nice to have one.

Then get a better paying job and stop crying like babies.

Have a great job... I know nothing about Tivo and am trying to make sense of what you guys like about it. How is Tivo-HD THAT much better than the 8300HD? Is there a comparison chart somewhere? I'm stuck with TWC with or without Tivo. From what I've read, if you live in Austin, don't buy Tivo...

I'd be happy to pay $3000 for a piece of equipment that allowed me to select only the programming I wanted, turn it all into HD, had a 500+g HD, archived HD to DVD, and allowed editing of content (automatically removed commercials). I'd also pay $100/mo for the programming... I'm guessing in another year or so, this may exist! (but I'm not holding my breath)

Guess you have to own one to know for sure (I've never owned Tiva). All I know is my 8300 box does a great job at all my recording and HD needs (except ability to archive); it costs an extra $7/mo with no CC required, "perfect" HD quality, on demand premiums free (after buying the main channel), all HD locals, no computer involved. Just don't see what you're paying the $8-$16/mo for (after you had to buy the equipment).... other than the guide.



Ignorance is bliss and I mean that in a kind way. Since you've never used a TiVo you don't know the difference. Read a few pages back, we've made some feature comparisons.

As far as your SA 8300 doing a great job I would have to see it to believe it. Besides missing recordings, or only doing partial recordings my SA 8300 would "lose" a "record all" entry sometimes if it missed a week. It would just disappear. I had to baby sit that thing constantly and even then I couldn't be assured it would work correctly.

However I have heard from individuals even within my own area that say it's not the case. I went through 3 of them before I gave up. So in reality as far as the quality of the SA 8300 and reliability all I can say is it was a pos for me, YMMV. :)

Edited to add: Yeah, if you're in Austin you have full blown SDV. That would make a difference.

Ignorance is bliss and I mean that in a kind way. Since you've never used a TiVo you don't know the difference. Read a few pages back, we've made some feature comparisons.

As far as your SA 8300 doing a great job I would have to see it to believe it. Besides missing recordings, or only doing partial recordings my SA 8300 would "lose" a "record all" entry sometimes if it missed a week. It would just disappear. I had to baby sit that thing constantly and even then I couldn't be assured it would work correctly.

However I have heard from individuals even within my own area that say it's not the case. I went through 3 of them before I gave up. So in reality as far as the quality of the SA 8300 and reliability all I can say is it was a pos for me, YMMV. :)

Edited to add: Yeah, if you're in Austin you have full blown SDV. That would make a difference.Hook - I went through the same crap with the Sony DHG units...out of three that I tried, only one worked semi-reliably. But, boy, did I catch the heat when I moaned about it in the Sony DHG thread. Nasty people over there...all I was doing was explaining what I went through. Others have had no problems. Go figure...

Besides, there are numerous reports of both the Moto and SA eSATA implementations as being fairly unreliable as currently constituted.

If a firewire port is the only thing holding you up from a superior DVR experience, I think you're just picking nits.

Optivity is too heavily invested in his opinion that he won't change his mind no matter what facts you bring to the table. Hopefully, by now he's made an appointment with a shrink to examine his mental state, because his previous comments certainly call for it.

His current argument is concern over cost, which he previously indicated was at a level of "nickels and dimes". He's a real piece of work.

It's obvious here that the folks that are happy with cableCo DVR's will never get the benefits of a reliable and full-featured DVR (Tivo, Replay, etc.), having never used one themselves.

At $219 for the current Circuit City deal for the Tivo HD, it's about $150 more over three years than renting the craptacular Moto 3416 at $11.95/mo from Comcast in the ATL, and the only thing you'd ever miss (maybe) is On Demand. And the Tivo HD price will be going down, not up - can you say the same about the cableCo DVR? Answer - hell no, our HD DVR rental just went up $3/mo. this year.

$50 a year, to me, saves you a lot of pain when you get a DVR that does everything you want it to do, every time.

Optivity is too heavily invested in his opinion that he won't change his mind no matter what facts :rolleyes: you bring to the table. Hopefully, by now he's made an appointment with a shrink to examine his mental state :eek: , because his previous comments certainly call for it.

His current argument is concern over cost, which he previously indicated was at a level of "nickels and dimes". ;) He's a real piece of work. :) Sorry guy's I just don't get your pro-TiVo mind set. Your DVR can time shift record TV programs, so can TWs 8300HDC. At this point in time I'm reluctant to spend money on A/V equipment that is obsolete as soon as it is released (e.g. TiVo S3 & SDV). ;)

Sorry guy's I just don't get your pro-TiVo mind set. Your DVR can time shift record TV programs, so can TWs 8300HDC. At this point in time I'm reluctant to spend money on A/V equipment that is obsolete as soon as it is released (e.g. TiVo S3 & SDV). ;)

Then why are your posting in this forum?

Sorry guy's I just don't get your pro-TiVo mind set. Your DVR can time shift record TV programs, so can TWs 8300HDC.A Yugo will get you from point A to point B (most of the time), but no one is going to mistake it for a Lexus. If the Yugo is the only car you've ever had, then your expectations for performance and reliability will be very different from someone who's spent the past five years driving a Lexus.

At this point in time I'm reluctant to spend money on A/V equipment that is obsolete as soon as it is released (e.g. TiVo S3 & SDV). ;)There's no SDV on FiOS, nor does FiOS have any plans to use it. Only two Comcast markets have SDV.

Comcast intends to eliminate the analog version of "extended basic" in a number of markets over the next 12 months (as they did recently in Chicago), freeing up capacity for 60-100 new HDTV channels without SDV. Time Warner customers have the most reason for concern, because it looks like TWC intends to stick with most of its analog channels (limiting capacity for new SD and HD without SDV) until at least 2009.

As noted in previous posts, Tivo is in discussions with cable companies (http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=126029&site=cdn) about how to support SDV. If they do come up with a solution, it could take the form of a USB dongle. Or it might use the programmable Xilinx Spartan FPGA found in the Series3 and TivoHD.

Sorry guy's I just don't get your pro-TiVo mind set. Your DVR can time shift record TV programs, so can TWs 8300HDC. At this point in time I'm reluctant to spend money on A/V equipment that is obsolete as soon as it is released (e.g. TiVo S3 & SDV). ;)
Anyone who has had extensive experience with both TiVos and the SA 8300HD can tell you that the 8300HD is crippled and primitive compared to TiVo’s marvelous software, especially if the 8300 is running the pitiful SARA software. Compared to the S3, the 8300 is cheap but so are lot of other inferior products.

Anyone who has had extensive experience with both TiVos and the SA 8300HD can tell you that the 8300HD is crippled and primitive compared to TiVo’s marvelous software, especially if the 8300 is running the pitiful SARA software. Compared to the S3, the 8300 is cheap but so are lot of other inferior products.

Also dont forget the multimedia features (pics, music, internet radio, yahoo stuff etc) that aren't offered by the 8300.

When I lived at the far north corner of San Diego, just east of Del Mar village, Time Warner was my provider and I had an SA8000HD running Passport Echo. Though Passport started out fairly rough, it had become relatively polished and reliable over the last couple of year. It had significantly more options for "Season Pass" filtering than TiVo and the "Now Playing" list could be sorted in the order that you wanted things deleted--I actually missed a few features after switching back to TiVo. (Of course, the Passport UI design steals heavily from TiVo :)).

Back in January I moved 30 miles north to Oceanside and into Cox territory. I had an SA8300HD running SARA. It was just terrible. I really don't think that they intended to sell SARA--very little money has been invested in it. It shows no signs that any professional human factors engineer had anything to do with the user-interface, nor has there been any use of professional artists; I'm fairly certain that the fonts are bitmaps cobbled together by some programmer. The example screens in their manuals are an order of magnitude better looking than the real thing, since they're composed of Adobe Acrobat line-drawing primitives and fonts. The UI itself is just heart-breakingly poor. I spent two weeks with it before I came to the conclusion that I'd rather revert to watching television in realtime.

I really think that SARA was created as a "reference platform", being an application whose source code is provided to hardware customers as a set of examples of how to get the hardware OEM's RTOS and middleware packages to deliver all of the functions that they advertise the device to be capable of. For example, Qualcomm, manufacturer of almost all of the processors in CDMA cellphone handsets today, provides an example phone UI to their customers. It's ugly and awkward, and no phone service provider would ever consider offering it, but its useful to developers of real user-interface.

In my not-so-humble opinion as an engineer with decades of experience in consumers electronics R&D, there's nothing much wrong with the SA hardware; the available Interactive Program Guide firmware packages (aka, "resident applications") are another matter :D.

Then why are your posting in this forum?Because he's just trolling now?

Sorry guy's I just don't get your pro-TiVo mind set. Your DVR can time shift record TV programs, so can TWs 8300HDC. At this point in time I'm reluctant to spend money on A/V equipment that is obsolete as soon as it is released (e.g. TiVo S3 & SDV). ;)

He that does not listen cannot hear. How many times have we pointed out to you the differences. So either you're posting just to aggrivate, which makes you a troll or you are just plain stupid.

And I'm irritated that I have to post this because at one time I had respect for you. I don't think you are stupid. You're posting just to aggrivate smiley face or not. I agree with the above poster, you are not contributing to this thread anymore so kindly unsubscribe yourself or label yourself as a troll on this thread.

Edited to add: Slowbiscuit beat me to the point.

Because he's just trolling now?

Yup. Folks, please don't feed the troll...

Then why are your posting in this forum?

He keeps posting because the fish keep biting. Someone who loves to fish isn't going to give up a spot where they are biting all day and night. If the fish stop biting then what do you think will happen?
Personally, I could care less if someone thinks their VCR is better than Tivo or some Motorola box. I know what is important to me and I am perfectly OK if someone else doesn't share that opinion. I'm not going to try that hard to sell someone on Tivo, Tivo pays a staff to do that!
I have friends that wouldn't spend any money for a DVR of any type no matter how cheap because they are too busy doing other things in life and TV isn't important to them at all. Different strokes.

He keeps posting because the fish keep biting. Someone who loves to fish isn't going to give up a spot where they are biting all day and night. If the fish stop biting then what do you think will happen?
Personally, I could care less if someone thinks their VCR is better than Tivo or some Motorola box. I know what is important to me and I am perfectly OK if someone else doesn't share that opinion. I'm not going to try that hard to sell someone on Tivo, Tivo pays a staff to do that!
I have friends that wouldn't spend any money for a DVR of any type no matter how cheap because they are too busy doing other things in life and TV isn't important to them at all. Different strokes.

That pretty much sums it up...

Randy

Wow! I have TWC - SARA in Austin, and as I said before, think it's great. After reading this, Tivi interface much be FANTASTIC! Too bad I'm in Austin, just not going to risk buying Tivo-HD and having it obselete in 3 months after all the channels dissappear. I do hope they upgrade the 8300 box software.



Back in January I moved 30 miles north to Oceanside and into Cox territory. I had an SA8300HD running SARA. It was just terrible.

Wow! I have TWC - SARA in Austin, and as I said before, think it's great. After reading this, Tivi interface much be FANTASTIC! Too bad I'm in Austin, just not going to risk buying Tivo-HD and having it obselete in 3 months after all the channels dissappear. I do hope they upgrade the 8300 box software.


Yeah, living in Austin right now would be a bit of a problem for the S3. Since I don't live there I don't know the whole story but my understanding is since you have SDV full blown down there you have a whole lot of channels to pick from. Still if I remember correctly there are about 100 channels that are not SDV.

You are correct however in you're assumption about the TiVo interface. Imagine you have a favorite movie you want to see and you can't find it. TiVo has a wishlist that will find it the next time it comes available. Only want to watch it in HD? You can set your S3 for that as well. Plus the regular search feature is so simple to use as opposed to the SA 8300. All you have to do is type in the name. TiVo will find the time and day for you.

And now they have added a "swivel search" where it will tell you similar movies, actors, etc. that you can record. It's a wonderful machine - If I were you I'd move from Austin. :)

Because he's just trolling now?Seriously.....leave him alone, don't respond to him anymore, and he goes away. DFTT.

Hook - I went through the same crap with the Sony DHG units...out of three that I tried, only one worked semi-reliably. But, boy, did I catch the heat when I moaned about it in the Sony DHG thread. Nasty people over there...all I was doing was explaining what I went through. Others have had no problems. Go figure...

I have 3 of the Sonys and they have all worked well since I got them about 18 months ago. I was lucky to get 1 500GB at Tweeter when they were selling for about 25% of MSRP, 1 250GB on Ebay and one 250GB BB store demo, both at very good prices. It does have limitations - one tuner, unreliable TVGOS system, etc. I have been lucky that they have all worked since day one - many, including bierboy, have not been so lucky.

However, when the networks go to digital in Feb 2009, I'm going to have to bite the bullet and get something else (does not appear that the Sony hardware can accept a digital TVGOS signal). I have been reading this thread for awhile with interest as there are some clear advantages to the Tivo - the guide being the number one. I'm concerned about SDV and the cost of upgrading from my current $50/month expanded basic package to get a Cablecard - I have been told by Comcast that to get a CC, I need to upgrade to the minimum digital package (about $10/month more) plus the HD tier (about $10/month). Not a huge cost but I'm happy with the HD locals I'm getting now without paying for this tier. Hoping that the SDV issue can get resolved with Tivo before early 2009. I, too, have no interest in a cable HD DVR - we have the Motorola 3416's/6412's around here and I've heard nightmare stories about them from some people - not all people, but enough to not want to incur extra cost for potential issues.

I have both. They're both good at what they do, for what they cost. One has a better interface, and the other has more features. One costs more up-front, and the other costs more each month. Both companies are very good at pricing, and the result of that is that a typical person will be indifferent regarding the choice between the two.

Wow! I have TWC - SARA in Austin, and as I said before, think it's great. After reading this, Tivi interface much be FANTASTIC! Too bad I'm in Austin, just not going to risk buying Tivo-HD and having it obselete in 3 months after all the channels dissappear. I do hope they upgrade the 8300 box software.

I was subjected to the 8300 w/ SARA for 1.5 years before I got my TiVo Series3. Night and day difference. The SARA interface made attempting to watch television a chore. Even my wife came to hate the damn thing.

That being said, given the current situation with TWC and SDV in Austin, I'd advise you to stick with what you've got. You're obviously OK with SARA, and there's simply too much uncertainty concerning TiVo and SDV right now.

BTW, don't hold your breath on the 8300 updates. As I said, I had mine for 1.5 years, and got a grand total of one update during that time. What did the update add ? Another fast forward speed, and it corrected the "kick to live" bug. That's it.

When I lived at the far north corner of San Diego, just east of Del Mar village, Time Warner was my provider and I had an SA8000HD running Passport Echo. Though Passport started out fairly rough, it had become relatively polished and reliable over the last couple of year. It had significantly more options for "Season Pass" filtering than TiVo and the "Now Playing" list could be sorted in the order that you wanted things deleted--I actually missed a few features after switching back to TiVo. (Of course, the Passport UI design steals heavily from TiVo :)).

Back in January I moved 30 miles north to Oceanside and into Cox territory. I had an SA8300HD running SARA. It was just terrible.
Yes, the difference between the SARA and Passport software packages is dramatic. In addition to my S3, I have an 8300HD on my other HDTV. It has SARA software and it stinks. I spent several days with my son and his family a couple of weeks ago and had a chance to use an 8300HD with Passport software and, as indicated above, learned that it is not at all bad. I continue to hope that TiVo’s contracts with Comcast and Cox will finally result in the wonderful TiVo software becoming widely available for use on rental HD DVRs.

BTW, don't hold your breath on the 8300 updates. As I said, I had mine for 1.5 years, and got a grand total of one update during that time. What did the update add ? Another fast forward speed, and it corrected the "kick to live" bug. That's it.

There really isn't going to be much more updating of the SA 8300, probably because of the new cable card model. Having said that however no matter what they do they will never even come close to TiVo's many features.

In regards to the Austin situation I've seen people in the TiVo Forum who own S3's and live there. They still use the S3 despite being limited on the amount of available stations because it is that much better then the SA 8300. Still having said that, I have to agree with Paul. You'd probably be better off not purchasing a S3 or TiVo HD at this point in time.

Comcast offered to let me have a non-DVR set-top box at no cost when I got TiVo so I could watch On-Demand. I politely declined, but if O-D appeals to anyone, they should ask their local rep.

You can't control the quality of HD or digital shows. Only analog.

If you haven't played with the swivel search, you're really going to like it. Try just using John Wayne and see where it takes you. :)

Hook -

Can you give me a wuick summary as to what Swivel Search does? I got comfused trying to read about it.

Thanks, CB

Since the S3 was the second Tivo in my house, I'm only paying $6.95 a month for 3 years. That's the multi-unit discount Tivo gives you. I gave the S2 to my kids in the basement, it has the lifetime agreement.

I bought an S-3 in November. So, I have an S-3 with lifetime and an S-2 for which the subscription runs out in November.

Do I get the multi-unit discount when I renew the S-2? I thought it was for 3 or more units.

Thanks, CB

Hook -

Can you give me a wuick summary as to what Swivel Search does? I got comfused trying to read about it.

Thanks, CBGo to this (http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/domore/swivelsearch/index.html) page on TiVo's site. Underneath the photo of the TiVo is a label "View Demos". Click it and it will show you what Universal Swivel Search does.

I bought an S-3 in November. So, I have an S-3 with lifetime and an S-2 for which the subscription runs out in November.

Do I get the multi-unit discount when I renew the S-2? I thought it was for 3 or more units.Yes. The multi-service discount is for two or more units.

You can also replace the Series2 on your account with a TivoHD purchased at retail. You'll pay $6.95/mo once your Series2 contract expires.You go to TiVo.com. Click My TiVo. Then click Manage My Account. Create an account if you haven't already. Login.

Once you login, you click "Change my service number." You enter the service number for the new TivoHD and it replaces the old box on your account. You keep paying what you are paying now (i.e. no new commitment), except you now have a TivoHD instead of a S1 or S2.

Some people make the mistake of cancelling an old TiVo before they buy a new one. You never want to do that. You always want to replace the old one using "Change my service number" so you pay the same thing you are now.

Note you can only do this with units purchased at retail (or online, but not from TiVo.com). If you buy direct from TiVo.com, they make you buy another subscription plan at a higher price.

Has anybody seen any head-to-head comparisons between the S3 and the HD in real world usage yet? If so, could you point me that direction, please? :)

Thanks,
Randy

Has anybody seen any head-to-head comparisons between the S3 and the HD in real world usage yet? If so, could you point me that direction, please? :)

Thanks,
Randy
This is a link to the Tivo Community Forums for the new Tivo HD, this might be of some use to you.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=359944

Laters,
Mikef5

I have both. They're both good at what they do, for what they cost. One has a better interface, and the other has more features. One costs more up-front, and the other costs more each month. Both companies are very good at pricing, and the result of that is that a typical person will be indifferent regarding the choice between the two.You have both of what? Tivo S3 and cable DVR?

If you're saying that a cable DVR can hold a candle to a Tivo or Replay in any way other than VOD/PPV, you must be smoking something. Or just be damn lucky to have a unit that does what you want every time, all the time. Or just be one of those typical folks that is indifferent.

But this is AVS, we're not typical, and we're not discussing what J6P wants in a DVR here.

Hook -

Can you give me a wuick summary as to what Swivel Search does? I got comfused trying to read about it.

Thanks, CB

Swivel search kind of acts like a keyword search, where you can jump off from a current recording and see what else hits the keywords from the current program. The keywords could be an actor, a genre, or what have you. So, if you were watching Aliens, you could Swivel Search to see similar Sci Fi programs, programs that Sigourney Weaver was in, or programs about aliens. You can also Swivel Search based on text that you can enter in manually as well. Search results are culled from the upcoming program guide data as well as Amazon Unbox movie/TV show purchase/rental information. Kinda neat stuff when you think about it.

There's a new TivoHD software update this morning.

It appears to fix an incompatibility (which caused pixelization) with Scientific Atlanta CableCards in the second slot. The software update will download the next time your box connects to the Internet.

There's no SDV on FiOS, nor does FiOS have any plans to use it. Only two Comcast markets have SDV.I don't have FiOS TV yet only Time Warner Cable.Comcast intends to eliminate the analog version of "extended basic" in a number of markets over the next 12 months (as they did recently in Chicago), freeing up capacity for 60-100 new HDTV channels without SDV. Time Warner customers have the most reason for concern, because it looks like TWC intends to stick with most of its analog channels (limiting capacity for new SD and HD without SDV) until at least 2009.Great, but I suscribe to Time Warner.As noted in previous posts, Tivo is in discussions with cable companies (http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=126029&site=cdn) about how to support SDV. If they do come up with a solution, it could take the form of a USB dongle. Or it might use the programmable Xilinx Spartan FPGA found in the Series3 and TivoHD.Promises, promises. Hopefully TiVo will kludge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kludge) something together for you, but I'll believe it when I see it.

You have both of what? Tivo S3 and cable DVR? Correct.

If you're saying that a cable DVR can hold a candle to a Tivo or Replay in any way other than VOD/PPV, you must be smoking something.No. Your saying so just means you're so blinded by your bias against the cable company DVRs that you cannot discuss the issue politely, but rather have to resort to inane accusations of drug use to express yourself. :rolleyes:

During the summer, basically both units are recording the same things, because there isn't much on. That's lucky, because it means we watch the first half of every SD program on the TiVo, and then the second half on the cable company DVR, because the TiVo stops recording closed captions mid-way through. My wife is hearing impaired, and from her standpoint, for SD, the TiVo sucks. No other DVR seems to have this problem. Just the TiVo. That is just ONE example of where a cable company DVR is better than a TiVo. Another is that the cable company DVR supports On Demand, and PPV. That's another example. There are more. Overall, the TiVo has more advantages than the cable company DVR has. However, the TiVo is not better than the cable company DVR in every way, and if SDV is introduced, the TiVo could become the lesser device. Telling anyone anything different is a disservice to them, if not an outright lie.

They each have their strengths, if you are willing to open your eyes to see.

But this is AVS, we're not typical, and we're not discussing what J6P wants in a DVR here.Ignoring J6P doesn't make J6P go away, nor prevents J6P from logging in here looking for advice.

No. Your saying so just means you're so blinded by your bias against the cable company DVRs that you cannot discuss the issue politely, but rather have to resort to inane accusations of drug use to express yourself. :rolleyes:There is nothing like a roiled TiVo owner, they remind me of a pack of wild dogs. These guy’s should try an 8300HDC before passing judgment. The essential purpose of a TiVo S3 is to time shift record TV programs, which is exactly what an 8300HDC does. $600 for a slick UI seems a little pricey to me, but reciprocal rationalization regarding a TiVo purchase decision is the rule on this thread.

There is nothing like a roiled TiVo owner, they remind me of a pack of wild dogs. These guy’s should try an 8300HDC before passing judgment. The essential purpose of a TiVo S3 is to time shift record TV programs, which is exactly what an 8300HDC does. $600 for a slick UI seems a little pricey to me, but reciprocal rationalization regarding a TiVo purchase decision is the rule on this thread.

Remember everybody...Do not feed the troll.

Remember everybody...Do not feed the troll.Who is a troll (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll)? Not me, surely you jest. :p

No. Your saying so just means you're so blinded by your bias against the cable company DVRs that you cannot discuss the issue politely, but rather have to resort to inane accusations of drug use to express yourself. :rolleyes: .


The truth is that for many people, bicker1 included, the SA 8300 seem to do a good job at being a basic DVR. The strange part about it is how it will work fine for some people, and just be a plain pos for people like me. :confused:

I

I'm going to take this opportunity to put optivity on my ignore list. I would suggest everyone do this since his primary objective is to be argumentative.

The truth is that for many people, bicker1 included, the SA 8300 seem to do a good job at being a basic DVR. The strange part about it is how it will work fine for some people, and just be a plain pos for people like me. :confused:

ITry an 8300HDC ;)

$600 for a slick UI seems a little pricey to me, but reciprocal rationalization regarding a TiVo purchase decision is the rule on this thread.You're not immune from blinding bias either. I paid $406 for my TiVo S3, and I've told you that before, yet you still continue to discuss a higher number. Furthermore, the TiVo HD is out now, with a $299 list price. I think if you want to ride the high road, with me, you're going to have to start being a bit more on-target with the numbers you throw around. (And don't bring up the service fee, because the cable company DVRs have them as well, and with Comcast's recent price increase, the service fees are now exactly the same here in MA.)

The truth is that for many people, bicker1 included, the SA 8300 seem to do a good job at being a basic DVR. Full disclosure: Mine is a Motorola DCT-3416.

And remember, it does do some things BETTER than my TiVo Series 3.

Full disclosure: Mine is a Motorola DCT-3416.

And remember, it does do some things BETTER than my TiVo Series 3.

Better? I suppose it is faster at going through a channel line up, and it does have some features no TiVo has like pip. But what else does it do better?

#1 - It reliably provides closed captions for my hearing impaired wife. (The TiVo doesn't. I've been working with TiVo on that problem for about six weeks, and some others have been working with TiVo for months, but none of the engineers there seem interested in helping hearing impaired folks through this issue. >shrug< )

Another advantage is that the closed captions can be configured with a transparent background, which is a lot less distracting -- sometimes the closed captions with opaque background blot out the faces of the people talking, which is really annoying.

Other advantages: On Demand, PPV, SDV (when the time comes).

More: If it breaks, you get a new one, free, no questions asked. No shipping the bad one out. No equivocations about what is and is not covered by the warranty. No doing without a DVR for a week or two while the repair is effected.

I also like that the guide shows a red dot for programs that are scheduled to be recorded. With the TiVo, you have to select something to see if it is scheduled for recording.

There are some others that I cannot recall off the top of my head.

The TiVo has a bunch of advantages over the Motorola box, too. They both have their own strengths.

Full disclosure: Mine is a Motorola DCT-3416.

And remember, it does do some things BETTER than my TiVo Series 3.Well, I give up. You can't argue with someone that enjoys using a buggy POS. And yes, I have rented one of those from Comcast before. Enjoy your full CC support and On Demand, bud.

Gosh, what a self-absorbed reply. :rolleyes: As if who cares about those hearing impaired people. :mad:

There are some others that I cannot recall off the top of my head.

The TiVo has a bunch of advantages over the Motorola box, too. They both have their own strengths.

Agreed. Overall, I like the Tivo much better and I'm very happy that I got the S3. But the Moto does have some nice features that the S3 doesn't have. Most of them are little things for me (but if I were hearing impared, I'd be angry with Tivo, too). What I really miss is the free space indicator. It still shocks me that, after all of these years, Tivo hasn't found a way to incorporate this feature yet.

I actually missed two recordings on my Tivo since I've had it . Not once did the Moto miss a recording. Like someone said about the SA, it seems like the luck of the draw. I had my moto for about two years with no real problems (aside from an OK interface and those annoying remote pauses), but some people have gone through five in a year.

Hey if you don't have a choice, then you don't. Sorry that the S3 doesn't do what you want, maybe they'll fix it someday.
But looking at your list, nothing else stands out other than On Demand. So in every other way, the Moto is a basic and inferior DVR, and this should not come as a surprise to anyone here. As bfd said, it's like comparing a Yugo to a Lexus.

Hey if you don't have a choice, then you don't. Sorry that the S3 doesn't do what you want, maybe they'll fix it someday.
But looking at your list, nothing else stands out other than On Demand. So in every other way, the Moto is a basic and inferior DVR, and this should not come as a surprise to anyone here. As bfd said, it's like comparing a Yugo to a Lexus.

Bicker1 isn't knocking the S3. He simply is pointing out some things that his moto box does that TiVo doesn't. I don't think he disagrees that overall the S3 is a superior box.

I'm going to take this opportunity to put optivity on my ignore list. I would suggest everyone do this since his primary objective is to be argumentative.

Joined you. Folks, please don't feed the troll.

I have a SA8300HD running Passport software. As I believe I have read here before the Passport software has developed quite nicely over the past few years. It is a very sophisticated package that is rock solid (for me) and offers a great feature set.

One thing I like about the Passport version I have is the ability to reorder recorded content. I can move recorded content up and down the list. This helps as the HDD fills up and content begins to drop off and be replaced. I didn't even know it was an option until I read it on here. There's more to Passport than meets the eye I guess.

I have nothing against the S3. But my viewing habits include using VOD. And I don't believe this should be underestimated. In my case I have access to 41 VOD channels. Everything from the National Geographic channel to BBC America to A&E, TNT, TBS etc etc. Tons and tons of content. And it seems like they are adding channels everyday.

Also, and I'll use HBO as an example. When the Sopranos was getting ready for its final season HBO had a ton of prior episodes racked up for viewing on its VOD channel. Nice feature.

Plus with VOD there are hundreds of movie and content choices available for viewing on my schedule - not the grid schedule. And this flexibility does not gobble up local STB HDD space. Using Showtime as another example currently the first 12 episodes of Dexter are racked up for VOD viewing. There are over 50 episodes of various Showtime series rack up and ready for VOD. Again no local storage required. There are dozens of examples of this across the VOD channel and content offerings. And dozens will soon turn into hundreds (if it's not already hundreds).

As slick as the S3 is it would be tough for me to give this up. Again nothing against the S3 but because of technical limitations (bidirectional addressing) it doesn't quite offer the feature set that foots with my viewing habits.

Perhaps the Tivo community doesn't quite appreciate the power of VOD. And perhaps this is so because they are happily chugging along without it and not fully understanding what they are missing. Nothing wrong with that and it doesn't reflect negatively on the Tivo concept. But for those of us who use VOD it becomes a compelling argument for staying put with the cableco rental option. Time shifting does not have to be hobbled by the size of the local STB HDD.

Plus with VOD there are hundreds of movie and content choices available for viewing on my schedule - not the grid schedule. And this flexibility does not gobble up local STB HDD space. Using Showtime as another example currently the first 12 episodes of Dexter are racked up for VOD viewing. There are over 50 episodes of various Showtime series rack up and ready for VOD. Again no local storage required. There are dozens of examples of this across the VOD channel and content offerings. And dozens will soon turn into hundreds (if it's not already hundreds).

Perhaps the Tivo community doesn't quite appreciate the power of VOD. And perhaps this is so because they are happily chugging along without it and not fully understanding what they are missing. Nothing wrong with that and it doesn't reflect negatively on the Tivo concept. But for those of us who use VOD it becomes a compelling argument for staying put with the cableco rental option. Time shifting does not have to be hobbled by the size of the local STB HDD.

From a TiVo point of view: I see absolutely no use in VOD. What's the point of having a DVR if you're going to use VOD. Most of the shows on VOD can be recorded from you're regular stations.

Now in regards to the other VOD channels that are not available to record it's been my experience that it's not worth the while to watch most of it. The TiVo S3 offers podcasts, which is a form of VOD and even if they don't offer something you are looking for you can punch in the url yourself. Even set up a favorites list.

But to be honest I feel pretty much the same about podcast. I don't find much interesting and I have too much other stuff to watch in the time I have available to watch television.

Also with all those VOD you have to go through each one to see what it's about, then you turn it on and 3 minutes into it you decide it's crap. The next thing you know you've wasted an hour when I could have watched a show off of my 98 HD 927 hours of viewing time available on my S3 (with eSATA, of corse).

If I want to rent movies I can do that as well with Amazon Unbox. Even purchase them if I desire.

On Demand? No thanks, I'll keep the S3.

Edited to add: In my area On Demand seem to have lots of problems. It didn't work a great deal of the time. I just remembered I have VOD. It's on my HD STB upstairs in my bedroom. I tried to look at it a couple of weeks ago. It would hang frequently and I'd have to start over.

You are completely missing the point. With VOD there is no need to localize the content. It becomes an extension of your DVR. You can still record everything to your STB if you choose but you don't have to.

Also I used the Showtime series Dexter in my previous post as an example. In this case all episodes of the series are available on VOD. I have never watched one. But the series was recently recommended to me. With VOD I can go back to the original episode. Watch them all. This is after the fact because I did not set up my DVR to record prior to the recommendation. Very powerful in my opinion.

If I want to rent movies I can do that as well with Amazon Unbox. Even purchase them if I desire.

On Demand? No thanks, I'll keep the S3.

Edited to add: In my area On Demand seem to have lots of problems. It didn't work a great deal of the time. I just remembered I have VOD. It's on my HD STB upstairs in my bedroom. I tried to look at it a couple of weeks ago. It would hang frequently and I'd have to start over.

I'm not speaking about renting movies. There is no independent viewing charge for the VOD I am referring to.

If you want to reduce this to something like it "sounds nice" but it doesn't work well I can tell you in my area I have had no service issues with my SA8300HD or any of its feature sets including VOD, PPV, etc.

I believe that if the S3 had bidirectional addressing which opened up VOD and the cableco DVR did not you'd be on the opposite side of the discussion.

Again I'm not trying to malign the S3. It is a great piece of technology. But it may not fit with many peoples viewing habits.

You are completely missing the point. With VOD there is no need to localize the content. It becomes an extension of your DVR. You can still record everything to your STB if you choose but you don't have to.

Also I used the Showtime series Dexter in my previous post as an example. In this case all episodes of the series are available on VOD. I have never watched one. But the series was recently recommended to me. With VOD I can go back to the original episode. Watch them all. This is after the fact because I did not set up my DVR to record prior to the recommendation. Very powerful in my opinion.I think you might be missing his point.

As noted above, most content on VOD is shown on television and will be recorded by Tivo. The Tivo isn't limited to recording by date, time, and program name like some other DVRs. It has a "wishlist" feature that will automatically record content by keyword, genre, actor, director, and virtually any other criteria you can think up...regardless of date, time, and channel...and neatly organize it into folders. Tivo delivers far more meta data (i.e. detailed program information) than most cable companies to make this possible.

For example, you can set the Tivo to automatically record all westerns broadcast in HD and put them in a "Westerns HD" folder. If you want to be more specific, you can set it to record all westerns directed by Clint Eastwood that are broadcast in HD and it will stick those in their own folder. Obsessed with Paris Hilton? You can set the Tivo to record every Paris Hilton interview on every channel, all of which will be neatly organized into a "Paris Hilton Interviews" folder. Looking for a specific episode of Seinfeld (or any other show)? You can create a wishlist for that. Looking for an old episode of Oprah with a certain guest? You can create a wishlist for that. Interested in information about the Dred Scott decision of 1854? You can create a wishlist to record all content related to that too.

Many would argue that this functionality on Tivo is more powerful than VOD because it records and neatly organizes all content that you are actually interested in. How would you go about finding content related to the Missouri Compromise of 1820 on VOD? How would you go about finding information about a specific type of shark on VOD? With the Tivo, it's simple and easy.

You've got to remember that many people, especially those on TivoCommunity, upgrade their DVR with larger hard drives. When you have the cable company DVR, you often concern yourself with space because it is very limited. Over on TivoCommunity, some members have HDTV Tivos with 300+ hours of HDTV storage and 3000+ hours of SDTV storage. Some people have every episode of Sopranos in HDTV on their Tivo. I recall one member had every episode of Seinfeld on their Tivo.

You are completely missing the point. With VOD there is no need to localize the content. It becomes an extension of your DVR. You can still record everything to your STB if you choose but you don't have to.

Also I used the Showtime series Dexter in my previous post as an example. In this case all episodes of the series are available on VOD. I have never watched one. But the series was recently recommended to me. With VOD I can go back to the original episode. Watch them all. This is after the fact because I did not set up my DVR to record prior to the recommendation. Very powerful in my opinion.

One of the problems that I have with VOD implementations is that the cable co determines what is available to you via VOD. Since they can't possibly hope to store every episode of everyones favorite series, they pick and choose a subset of the episodes from those series in order to conserve storage space on their servers. This doesn't come into play in a short-run series like Dexter, but the longer stuff like Sopranos, Sex in the City and so-forth, which have run for multiple seasons. Further exacerbating this problem is that they rotate this content in and out to keep it "fresh". So, if I'm watching a series via VOD, and can't get to it on a consistent basis, there exists the real chance that the episodes I intend to watch in the future will be rotated out, and therefore no longer available to me.

You are completely missing the point. With VOD there is no need to localize the content. It becomes an extension of your DVR. You can still record everything to your STB if you choose but you don't have to.

Also I used the Showtime series Dexter in my previous post as an example. In this case all episodes of the series are available on VOD. I have never watched one. But the series was recently recommended to me. With VOD I can go back to the original episode. Watch them all. This is after the fact because I did not set up my DVR to record prior to the recommendation. Very powerful in my opinion.


I didn't miss your point at all. I don't find VOD to be something useful for ME. If you like it, fine.

Here's another thing. Even if you have a S3 you can always get a set top box for 7 bucks a month and get all the VOD you want as well. And no, I'm not just throwing away 7 bucks I use it on my bedroom TV. I just don't see anything worthwhile watching.

And what about my point about podcasts? Can your pos SA 8300 show those? What, no internet connection? Awww.... :rolleyes:

Also, and I'll use HBO as an example. When the Sopranos was getting ready for its final season HBO had a ton of prior episodes racked up for viewing on its VOD channel. Nice feature.


This is a fair point and you cannot dismiss it. VOD does have this feature, which Tivo does not. The counterpoint is that you'd be recording them all along on your Tivo. That is not a very good counterpoint, though, because I oftentimes get tuned into a show mid season and the earlier episodes are either not showing, or showing so sporadically that it takes me 5 weeks. Case in point, I missed about 4 episodes of Heroes during my recent move. I have my Tivo set up to grab those episodes when they next come on. It's been 10 weeks now and they have not been back on. :(

The better counterpoint, though, is that the VOD library is small, IMO. Sure, you can get the popular shows like Sopranos from HBO, but I cannot do that with every show. In fact, I cannot do that with most shows. For non-serial shows, like HD-Geographic, I'd have it recorded if I was interested. And given the size of my Tivo Series 3, I do not do much channel surfing (i.e. looking for shows on the spur of the moment) because I have enough content to last me.

I'd love to have VOD with my Tivo, but I'd rather have the better UI. I basically stopped watching TV for the couple months that I used a Comcast DVR - dear God. And now with Amazon unboxed, I at least have a form of PPV. For some reason they keep paying me to get movies from them. Now if only I could get the Netflix to stream to my TV instead of my computer.

VOD is a cool concept and was occasionally useful, but the only use I ever made of it was catching up with new premium cable network (HBO, Showtime, etc) series that I became interested in in the middle (I too recently got hooked on Dexter--I caught the last four or five episodes of the season and fortunately they've been re-running it from the beginning through the summer).

My main problem with VOD is that the interface was way too sluggish--there was only a single speed of fast-forward and rewind, and that was far too fast, particularly since it could take a second or two for the box to respond to any trick-play button.
Now if only I could get the Netflix to stream to my TV instead of my computer.You gotta buy a computer for your home theater--it's the only way to go. I'm writing this response while seated on a couch about 10 feet from a 46" 1080p LCD flatscreen. I have spent some time viewing movies using Netflix' "Watch Now" feature and it's quite decent--much more responsive than VOD from any of the cable systems I've been on. IPTV through the PC and through the "next-gen" game consoles should come along this year.

Bicker1 isn't knocking the S3. He simply is pointing out some things that his moto box does that TiVo doesn't. I don't think he disagrees that overall the S3 is a superior box.After all, I have one of them too. For us, having one of each is best (one for her, and one for me :)). For some people, having just the cable company DVR is best. For some people, having just the TiVo is best.

... Case in point, I missed about 4 episodes of Heroes during my recent move. I have my Tivo set up to grab those episodes when they next come on. It's been 10 weeks now and they have not been back on. :( ....And that's TiVo's fault? I don't think so. That's the network's fault.

Buy the HD DVD of Heroes Season 1 later this month!

Read this & weep TiVo fan boys:

TivoHD Disadvantages

No lifetime transfers.
Smaller hard drive (160GB vs 250GB).
eSATA expansion is not yet functional (Kickstart 62 method does not work).
No THX certification.
No piano black enclosure with OLED display.
No slick, learning remote (sold separately for $50).
No bundled HDMI cable.
Drivers for new components potentially less mature / optimized (i.e. more bugs)
Ships with older 8.1.x branch of Tivo software, which doesn't have all the performance improvements of the 8.3.x branch on the Tivo Series3.
Potentially slower disk I/O, which may hurt responsiveness.

The Broadcom BCM7401 in the TivoHD has a single 1.5Gbps SATA channel that is "split" for the internal SATA and eSATA connections using the Silicon Image SiI5723. In contrast, the BCM7038 in the Series3 had a dual-channel SATA controller, so no "splitting" was required. This may negatively impact disk I/O when both internal and eSATA drives are used, and Tivo responsiveness is highly dependent on disk I/O. The SiI5723 does support several RAID modes that could potentially improve random I/O.

Please guys don't resond to Optivity. He's just starting trouble and nothing he published isn't already known.

Read this & weep TiVo fan boys:

For $244 my TiVo HD was worth it. I like my three Series 3 boxes better, but they also cost 2 to 3 times as much.(MY first two Series 3 boxes were $720 each, my third Series 3 cost $535 in December)
I upgraded the TiVo HD to a 500GB drive last night now I have 64 HD hours of recording capacity to go with my upgraded Series 3 units.
Performance is for the most part the same as the Series 3. They've already had one software update for the TiVoHD a couple of days ago.
I like the Series 3 better but because of the price the TiVoHD is a much better deal. Although I really like the OLED with the Series 3 since it tells you what is being recorded without having to turn the TV on.

Please guys don't resond to Optivity. He's just starting trouble and nothing he published isn't already known.Reported to mods, maybe that will help.

For $244 my TiVo HD was worth it. I like my three Series 3 boxes better, but they also cost 2 to 3 times as much.(MY first two Series 3 boxes were $720 each, my third Series 3 cost $535 in December)
I upgraded the TiVo HD to a 500GB drive last night now I have 64 HD hours of recording capacity to go with my upgraded Series 3 units.
Performance is for the most part the same as the Series 3. They've already had one software update for the TiVoHD a couple of days ago.
I like the Series 3 better but because of the price the TiVoHD is a much better deal. Although I really like the OLED with the Series 3 since it tells you what is being recorded without having to turn the TV on.

Hi Aaron,
Outside of the OLED display, are you seeing any other functional differences? I've been looking for a head-to-head comparison (thanks for the link MikeF5, but I didn't find one there) to see what someone that has actually used them both thinks, but I haven't been able to find one. I've seen the FAQs on spec differences but I am looking for more of a real world evaluation. I'm mainly wondering if the new hardware in the HD impacts performance at all, etc. I am thinking they might do a few things to stimulate S3 sales if they dry up now that the HD has been introduced, so it might be worth waiting if there are some significant differences...

Thanks!
Randy

Hi Aaron,
Outside of the OLED display, are you seeing any other functional differences? I've been looking for a head-to-head comparison (thanks for the link MikeF5, but I didn't find one there) to see what someone that has actually used them both thinks, but I haven't been able to find one. I've seen the FAQs on spec differences but I am looking for more of a real world evaluation. I'm mainly wondering if the new hardware in the HD impacts performance at all, etc. I am thinking they might do a few things to stimulate S3 sales if they dry up now that the HD has been introduced, so it might be worth waiting if there are some significant differences...Functionally, they are the same. The TivoHD delivers the same features using a newer, less costly design made possible by new components.

I've used both. Here's what I posted yesterday:

TivoHD Advantages MSRP is $500 less ($299 vs $799)
TivoHD has ~7% faster CPU (450 MIPS vs 420 MIPS)
TivoHD has twice the system memory (256MB vs 128MB)
Supports MCARDs out of the box.
Newer QAM/VSB demodulation chips for potentially improved OTA reception.
New, dedicated hardware for MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 SD->SD and HD->SD transcoding Could allow HD->SD MRV with older Series2 Tivos
Could allow TivoToGo and MRV to support content flagged as "copy one generation" (via downres)
Could allow Tivo to use TivoToGo and MRV to record and stream content for which they cannot obtain Cable Labs approval to pass (via down-res)
Could allow place-shifting like Slingbox (thanks megazone)
Real-time transcoding could eliminate the need to do it in software, reducing the licensing fees for the Tivo Desktop software.
Consumes less power.

TivoHD Disadvantages No lifetime transfers.
Smaller hard drive (160GB vs 250GB).
eSATA expansion is not yet functional (Kickstart 62 method does not work).
No THX certification.
No piano black enclosure with OLED display.
No slick, learning remote (sold separately for $50).
No bundled HDMI cable.
Drivers for new components potentially less mature / optimized (i.e. more bugs)
Ships with older 8.1.x branch of Tivo software, which doesn't have all the performance improvements of the 8.3.x branch on the Tivo Series3.
Potentially slower disk I/O, which may hurt responsiveness.
The Broadcom BCM7401 in the TivoHD has a single 1.5Gbps SATA channel that is "split" for the internal SATA and eSATA connections using the Silicon Image SiI5723. In contrast, the BCM7038 in the Series3 had a dual-channel SATA controller, so no "splitting" was required. This may negatively impact disk I/O when both internal and eSATA drives are used, and Tivo responsiveness is highly dependent on disk I/O. The SiI5723 does support several RAID modes that could potentially improve random I/O.The TivoHD has a few graphical bugs that Tivo needs to fix. These are minor things, but the Series3 doesn't have them. The TivoHD is a completely new design with many new drivers, so some bugs are probably to be expected; the Series3 had its share of annoyances when it was released a year ago, but Tivo fixed them.

As noted above, the TivoHD also uses the older 8.1.x branch which doesn't have the performance improvements of the 8.3.x software on the Series3. As a result, the guide and menus are much slower on the TivoHD. The TivoHD should get 8.3.x or newer software in a few months to improve its performance, but until then, the Series3 is the faster and more responsive box.

In six months time, after several software updates, I expect the TivoHD to be the better box. As of today, the Series3 is the better box simply because its software is more mature.

Functionally, they are the same. The TivoHD delivers the same features using a newer, less costly design made possible by new components.

I've used both. Here's what I posted yesterday:

Thanks...I'm not sure how I missed that. I had seen the bullet points before, and was looking for more what you had in the narrative. Maybe I just saw the bullets and skipped on...anyway, I appreciate it!

Randy

In six months time, after several software updates, I expect the TivoHD to be the better box. As of today, the Series3 is the better box simply because its software is more mature.

Respectfully, I disagree. The one thing that will make the Series 3 the better box is THX Technology. Again you have to meet certain standards in order to be able to use that label, and obviously the TiVo HD doesn't otherwise why wouldn't it carry that as well? It's not something that you simply purchase, although I do admit it may cost TiVo some amount of money but I'll bet that's not a major cost.

Respectfully, I disagree. The one thing that will make the Series 3 the better box is THX Technology. Again you have to meet certain standards in order to be able to use that label, and obviously the TiVo HD doesn't otherwise why wouldn't it carry that as well? It's not something that you simply purchase, although I do admit it may cost TiVo some amount of money but I'll bet that's not a major cost.

The problem with that arguement is that it implies that the lack of THX really means the audio/video chain isnt as good as the S3 which there is no 'proof' that that is the case. It may be that the TivoHD would pass THX just fine.... or it may not... we just dont know. Tivo may have simply decided not to pay the test and license fees to carry the logo in order to reduce the cost of the box.

The problem with that arguement is that it implies that the lack of THX really means the audio/video chain isnt as good as the S3 which there is no 'proof' that that is the case. It may be that the TivoHD would pass THX just fine.... or it may not... we just dont know. Tivo may have simply decided not to pay the test and license fees to carry the logo in order to reduce the cost of the box.

And just to show I'll argue with anyone, including myself, you'd probably have to be a real videofile to notice the difference. :)

Even with the SA 8300 I can't honestly say I noticed a big difference in the quality of the HD picture (that is when the HD picture was actually stable). I did notice a big difference in the quality of the analog pictures and the S3 was much better.

Respectfully, I disagree. The one thing that will make the Series 3 the better box is THX Technology. Again you have to meet certain standards in order to be able to use that label, and obviously the TiVo HD doesn't otherwise why wouldn't it carry that as well? It's not something that you simply purchase, although I do admit it may cost TiVo some amount of money but I'll bet that's not a major cost.We can't be certain how performance compares until someone actually tests both units on a large 1080p display using the same material and/or patterns. It is possible that the Series3 offers noticeably better output quality, but I wouldn't bet on that. I would bet on them being equal / indistinguishable.

The THX certification may provide some assurance of performance on the Series3, but I would not take its absence on the TivoHD to conclude anything about its performance. THX certification was dropped as a cost cutting measure.

The THX certification process is not cheap and manufacturers can't display that logo on their box for free. Whether it works out to an extra $2 or an extra $10 per box, it's still an added cost that Tivo wanted to eliminate. If the certification process was free and it only cost a few cents per box, I expect the TivoHD would have it.

We can't be certain how performance compares until someone actually tests both units on a large 1080p display using the same material and/or patterns. It is possible that the Series3 offers noticeably better output quality, but I wouldn't bet on that. I would bet on them being equal / indistinguishable.

The THX certification may provide some assurance of performance on the Series3, but I would not take its absence on the TivoHD to conclude anything about its performance. THX certification was dropped as a cost cutting measure.

The THX certification process is not cheap and manufacturers can't display that logo on their box for free. Whether it works out to an extra $2 or an extra $10 per box, it's still an added cost that Tivo wanted to eliminate. If the certification process was free and it only cost a few cents per box, I expect the TivoHD would have it.

Agree 100%. Both boxes are based on Broadcom cores. With each in native mode HDMI with no stretching going on and dolby dig audio output I would be willing to bet each will be identical likely down to bit by bit of the bitstreams being output.

The question I have is relative to the tuners/demodulators. I would love to get hold of a TivoHD to compare in my situation relative to issues ive had with S3 QAM.

I was wondering if anyone has any insight to an issue I am having. I am having trouble with my Encore movie channels and my HBO channels. Cablecard 1 displays them just fine, but Cablecard 2 doesn't. There is just a gray screen. Restarting doesn't help.

I was wondering if anyone has any insight to an issue I am having. I am having trouble with my Encore movie channels and my HBO channels. Cablecard 1 displays them just fine, but Cablecard 2 doesn't. There is just a gray screen. Restarting doesn't help.Do you have the Series3 or the TivoHD? And do you have Scientific Atlanta CableCards or Motorola CableCards?

Tivo released a software update yesterday for the TivoHD that addressed an issue with Scientific Atlanta CableCards in slot #2. The TivoHD will download the update automatically in the next few days, or you can force the connection and download on the Settings -> Network screen.

If you have a Series3, the card in slot #2 is probably defective or not authorized. What does the Tivo say for slot #2 under the Settings -> Settings -> CableCard screen? If it's not authorized, you may be able to call your cable company and have them authorize the second card over the phone. You want them to "hit" the card.

Do you have the Series3 or the TivoHD? And do you have Scientific Atlanta CableCards or Motorola CableCards?

Tivo released a software update yesterday for the TivoHD that addressed an issue with Scientific Atlanta CableCards in slot #2. The TivoHD will download the update automatically in the next few days, or you can force the connection and download on the Settings -> Network screen.

If you have a Series3, the card in slot #2 is probably defective or not authorized. What does the Tivo say for slot #2 under the Settings -> Settings -> CableCard screen? If it's not authorized, you may be able to call your cable company and have them authorize the second card over the phone. You want them to "hit" the card.


I have an S3. They are Moto cards. They appear to be activated and paired.

I was wondering if anyone has any insight to an issue I am having. I am having trouble with my Encore movie channels and my HBO channels. Cablecard 1 displays them just fine, but Cablecard 2 doesn't. There is just a gray screen. Restarting doesn't help.

Odd. I'm having the same problem with digitally encoded channels. I can get 1 channel of HBO and HBO HD but I can't get any other encoded channels.

Odd. I'm having the same problem with digitally encoded channels. I can get 1 channel of HBO and HBO HD but I can't get any other encoded channels.

I rebooted and everything cleared up. :)

VOD is a cool concept and was occasionally useful, but the only use I ever made of it was catching up with new premium cable network (HBO, Showtime, etc) series that I became interested in in the middle (I too recently got hooked on Dexter--I caught the last four or five episodes of the season and fortunately they've been re-running it from the beginning through the summer).

My main problem with VOD is that the interface was way too sluggish--there was only a single speed of fast-forward and rewind, and that was far too fast, particularly since it could take a second or two for the box to respond to any trick-play button.
I agree that VOD is no big deal and most S3 owners, including this one, don’t miss it at all. VOD’s worst failing, it seems to me, is that it’s only SD on most cable systems.

Reported to mods, maybe that will help.Give me a break! The devil's advocate can't post his opinion on this thread anymore? Your seemingly compulsive obsession with a DVR does not provide sufficient reason to censor the inquiring minds of those who want to know… why TiVo, what’s so great about a TiVo DVR?

Currently the TiVo S3 w/subscription is priced @

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzequg9f/tivo-s3-8-3-07.jpg

Which seems like a ridiculously huge investment to me for a box that really does nothing more than time shift record HDTV.

Seriously.....leave him alone, don't respond to him anymore, and he goes away.

Joined you. Folks, please don't feed the troll.

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+1

The problem with that arguement is that it implies that the lack of THX really means the audio/video chain isnt as good as the S3 which there is no 'proof' that that is the case. It may be that the TivoHD would pass THX just fine.... or it may not... we just dont know. Tivo may have simply decided not to pay the test and license fees to carry the logo in order to reduce the cost of the box.

THX certification is meaningless, unless you invest in all THX compliant equipment To be fully THX compliant, the source, amplifier and speakers all have to be THX certified. Even if you have all that, I believe THX compliance also dictates the room ergonomics.

To be honest, I suspect most of us who set up home cinema environments do so in less than perfect conditions. You can't really do justification to THX unless you go to the trouble of setting up a proper media room. I have a lot of good equipment in my living room, but I doubt I'd be able to tell the difference between a THX certified TiVo S3 and a non THX certified TiVo HD. :)

By the way, my non THX certified TiVo HD arrived yesterday. I'm happy! :D

THX certification is meaningless, unless you invest in all THX compliant equipment To be fully THX compliant, the source, amplifier and speakers all have to be THX certified. Even if you have all that, I believe THX compliance also dictates the room ergonomics.

To be honest, I suspect most of us who set up home cinema environments do so in less than perfect conditions. You can't really do justification to THX unless you go to the trouble of setting up a proper media room. I have a lot of good equipment in my living room, but I doubt I'd be able to tell the difference between a THX certified TiVo S3 and a non THX certified TiVo HD. :)

By the way, my non THX certified TiVo HD arrived yesterday. I'm happy! :D


Excellent point. Still for those of us who paid full price for the S3 we gotta have something to cling on to. :)

Seriously even if I knew last year that the TiVo HD would be available in another 7 or 8 months I still wouldn't have waited. That's how dissatisfied I was with the SA 8300. I still love the S3 and don't regret my purchase one bit.

Excellent point. Still for those of us who paid full price for the S3 we gotta have something to cling on to.You said it. ;) Why would anyone in their "right mind" pay $1100 for a TiVo S3?

Repost...

Over on TivoCommunity, it has become apparent that the TivoHD software has some bugs in its CableCard/OpenCable driver that affects systems using Scientific Atlanta CableCards. Tivo released an update on the 1st which addresses the problem on some SA systems, but not all.

Tivo is working on a problem and expects to have a solution soon, but if your cable system uses Scientific Atlanta CableCards, you might want to hold off on buying a TivoHD for a few weeks. The Tivo Series3 does not have that same issues.

Over on TivoCommunity, it's becoming apparent that the TivoHD software appears to have some bugs in its CableCard/OpenCable driver that affects systems using Scientific Atlanta CableCards. Tivo released an update on the 1st which addresses the problem on some SA systems, but not all.

Tivo is working on a problem and expects to have a solution soon, but if your cable system uses Scientific Atlanta CableCards, you might want to hold off on buying a TivoHD for a few weeks. The Tivo Series3 does not have that same issues.


I remember when the S3 was released many people complained that there were problems with SA cards. I personally didn't have any.

I picked up the TiVo HD Thursday afternoon (Aug 2) and went through the set-up (without the cards) that evening. Comcast came out Friday at 11:30 am, and the tech had two Motorola cards completely installed within an hour. The premium channels plus HBO and Starz were working in HD on both cards without any problems.

This is for the guest bedroom where my wife does most of her casual TV watching; this makes her happy since she makes use of Wish Lists and doesn't appreciate the 3416's re-recording programs she's already watched and deleted.

I still have the Mot. 3416 in the living room with the larger TV, since I occasionally use it for On-Demand HD movies and it does work if you know the work-arounds and are patient.

*** This just to let you know things often work the way they are supposed to.

P.S. The tech knew about the TiVo software for the Motorola, said the company told him employees may get a crack at it soon, and said he was looking forward to seeing it. We're in western Massachusetts.

P.P.S. The tech only had two cards with him and one was bad. But he managed to contact another tech who was on the road not too far away, and that guy brought a replacement by. That and we were still done in an hour.

You said it. ;) Why would anyone in their "right mind" pay $1100 for a TiVo S3?The same reason someone might spend $20,000+ on a new car instead of $8,000?

Reasons to choose the Tivo over other DVRs:

Want to remove channels from your guide? Tivo lets you do that.


Want to expand DVR capacity? The Tivo's internal drive is upgradeable to 1Tb (131 hours HD, 1244 hours SD), and official support for eSATA drive expansion is coming later this year.


Tired of remote lag (and remote 'queuing up') when using DVR functions like instant replay, fast forward, rewind, and 30s skip? No such lag on the Tivo. DVR functions are instantaneous.


Series recordings are neatly organized into folders. Have four episodes of Heroes on your DVR? They're all grouped in a single folder called "Heroes." Within the folder, the recordings are listed by date with the actual episode title. If for some reason, you don't want folders, you can disable them. Screenshot here (http://www.brothersontech.com/files/images/TiVo-Series3-now-playing.jpg).


Want buffering on both tuners, so you can switch between two different channels and rewind, or pause one channel, switch to another, and then switch back and resume where you left off? Tivo does that.


Tivo has a "wishlist" feature that will automatically record content based on keyword, genre, actor, director, or virtually any other criteria you can think up...regardless of date, time, and channel...and neatly organize it into folders. This is possible because Tivo offers far more meta data (i.e. program information) than cable providers. Examples:



Like to watch westerns, but only want them in HD? You can create a wishlist to automatically record all westerns broadcast in HD -- regardless of date, time, and channel -- and the Tivo will group them all in a "Westerns / HD" folder, with the contents listed by recording date with the title.


Only want westerns directed by Clint Eastwood? You can set it the Tivo to record all westerns directed by Clint Eastwood that are broadcast in HD and it will group those in their own "Westerns / Clint Eastwood / HD" folder.


Obsessed with Paris Hilton? You can set the Tivo to record every Paris Hilton interview shown on TV, regardless of date, time, and channel, and all will be neatly organized into a "Paris Hilton Interviews" folder.


Looking for a specific episode of Seinfeld (or any other show)? You can create a wishlist to record that.


Looking for an old episode of Oprah with a certain guest? You can create a wishlist to record that.


Interested in World War II weaponry? You can create a wishlist to record all programs about that topic, regardless of date, time, and channel, with all neatly grouped into a folder.


Just want to find a program? Tivo makes it simple to search the next 14 days of listings. When searching by title, the results update dynamically as you type in each letter using the on-screen keyboard.


Want to receive OTA channels? The Tivo will combine analog and digital broadcasts from both cable and OTA into the same guide. As before, you pick and choose what channels you want to show up in the guide.


Want to avoid re-recordings of episodes you've already seen? The Tivo keeps a record of the last 28 days of recordings and deletions, so it knows not to record episodes that you've already watched and deleted.


Tired of missing new episodes because your cable provider improperly flagged new episodes as repeats? Tivo actually makes the effort to get their guide information right. It's not always perfect, but no one offers higher reliability. If there is a last minute programming change to one of the programs you've set to record, they send a message to your box.


Did your cable company remove the 30sec skip function? The Tivo remote has a button for that.


Want an "all native" output mode to output 480i channels as 480i, 720p channels as 720p, and 1080i as 1080i without lossy conversion from one format to another? Tivo has that.


Want built-in pillarbox, stretch, zoom modes for SD channels with the ability to change between them by pressing a button on the remote? Tivo has that.


Want to extend recordings in progress, such as sports that are running over? Tivo makes it easy and fast.


Want to schedule recordings over the web or from your cell phone? Tivo does that.


Have three programs you want to record, all showing at the same time, but only have two tuners? The Tivo records the two programs you've defined with the highest priority, and then automatically schedules a recording for the next available showing of the program you missed. You don't have to do anything to schedule a recording for the third program.


Tired of missing a 9pm recording because some network ran their 8pm program a few minutes over? Tivo eliminates that with overlap protection.


Want to listen to Podcasts on your DVR? Tivo does that.


Want Internet videocasts like CrankyGeeks, DLTV, The Onion, Cnet, and Rocketboom to automatically show up on your list of recorded programs every week just like television shows? The Tivo does that.


Want to purchase movies -- streamed direct to your DVR -- from Amazon Unbox without a PC? Tivo does that.


Want to view pictures stored on your PC on your DVR? Tivo lets you do that.


Want to listen to music stored on your PC with your DVR? Tivo lets you do that.


Have a Rhapsody music subscription and want to access all your Rhapsody songs, playlists, and channels without a computer? That feature is coming to the Tivo with an update later this summer.


Want to stream high-def recordings from the Tivo in your living room to the Tivo in your bedroom? Tivo has said an update to enable that feature is coming later this year.


Want to copy high-def recordings (on channels flagged 'copy freely') from the Tivo to your PC using a wired or wireless network? Tivo has also said the update to enable that feature is coming later this year.
As with any other product, some people value reliability and certain features more than others.

The same reason someone might spend $20,000+ on a new car instead of $8,000?


As with any other product, some people value reliability and certain features more than others.


He know all that. We've spelled it out to him many times.
Please don't respond, DNFTT.

my S3 and it's much cheaper ($234 cc deal) little brotherTivoHD are getting along great. the video from both look great at least from the HD channels, Sd is ok. The tuners pick up equally also, no cable just ota. The TivoHD seems just a hair slow like half to one second sometimes on remote commands. no biggie but hopefully this will be fixed when tivo sends out new software. Good to see spike2k5 has the internal hdd upgrade tools out already.

Reasons to choose the Tivo over other DVRs:
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I'm waiting for a particular user to post "Yeah, but, but, but, it doesn't support firewire!" :)

I'm waiting for a particular user to post "Yeah, but, but, but, it doesn't support firewire!" :)

Groan.....don't invite him just ignore him.

This dude isn't going away until we stop responding. As stated above he will rehash the same old issues and act like he never knew anything about other S3 features. Famouns quote "Just a time shifter". No matter how many times we have pointed out differently.

IGNORE. Do not feed the troll. He will give up and go away.

The card did just need re-"hit." However, since Comcast is my provider, that involved a tech coming out to my house. The rep on the phone didn't know how to do it. Yet, another piece of evidence that Comcast is the worst run company in existence today.

Do you have the Series3 or the TivoHD? And do you have Scientific Atlanta CableCards or Motorola CableCards?

Tivo released a software update yesterday for the TivoHD that addressed an issue with Scientific Atlanta CableCards in slot #2. The TivoHD will download the update automatically in the next few days, or you can force the connection and download on the Settings -> Network screen.

If you have a Series3, the card in slot #2 is probably defective or not authorized. What does the Tivo say for slot #2 under the Settings -> Settings -> CableCard screen? If it's not authorized, you may be able to call your cable company and have them authorize the second card over the phone. You want them to "hit" the card.

The card did just need re-"hit." However, since Comcast is my provider, that involved a tech coming out to my house. The rep on the phone didn't know how to do it. Yet, another piece of evidence that Comcast is the worst run company in existence today.
Comcast does not have a monopoly on terminal ignorance about CableCARDs. My S3 failed several weeks ago but the cards were still working perfectly. Nevertheless, when I installed them in my replacement S3, Cox OKC’s online support folks couldn’t figure out how to configure them over the phone, even with the help of a TiVo tech. Cox had to do a separate service call and install brand new cards to get the job done.

I'm not sure if or how any of these following examples of Wishlist flexibility actually work as easily or gracefully as seemingly purported here (my responses in bold type)...



# Tivo has a "wishlist" feature that will automatically record content based on keyword, genre, actor, director, or virtually any other criteria you can think up...regardless of date, time, and channel...and neatly organize it into folders. This is possible because Tivo offers far more meta data (i.e. program information) than cable providers. Examples:

* Obsessed with Paris Hilton? You can set the Tivo to record every Paris Hilton interview shown on TV, regardless of date, time, and channel, and all will be neatly organized into a "Paris Hilton Interviews" folder.

As far as I can tell, you can make a wishlist of "Paris Hilton" and then sub-categorize with "talk shows" (btw, there is no such thing as an "interview" category, of course, so I'm not sure why that word is being used to highlight the benefits of Tivo wishlists in the example above). But if she appears on the 20/20 ABC program, in an interview segment hosted by Barbara Walters, well, it will not be recorded. So instead, you either need to:

A) eliminate the "talk shows" sub-category to ensure it gets recorded, with the drawback being that you will now accumulate many things you may not want, such as any episodes of her show, 'The Surreal Life' (or whatever it's called).

Or,

B) create two or more Paris Hilton wishlists to capture all the possible permutations of Paris Hilton interviews. In the case of 20/20, this program is categorized under "news and business" and sub-categorized as "news magazine". So now you would need to create a second wishlist with this different set of distinctions.

Bottom line: it requires both practice and savvy to get things set up correctly. Or, if you opt to keep the wishlist simple & broad, as a result, you will have to live with weeding out all the superfluous stuff on a regular basis.

* Looking for a specific episode of Seinfeld (or any other show)? You can create a wishlist to record that.

You can certainly create a wishlist for Seinfeld, but again, how would one go about specifying a particular episode? The only possible way I can think of is if you were to create either a Title or Keyword wishlist and then specify both "Seinfeld" and the title of the episode in the same title line/heading of the wishlist. If so, then yea.. this will work. If there is another method, I'd be interested in learning how.

* Looking for an old episode of Oprah with a certain guest? You can create a wishlist to record that.

Here again, I assume that this would be done in the same manner as I described for a specific Seinfeld episode. Both "Oprah" and the guests name would need to be added into the title of the wishlist. It would have to be done in this manner, for there is no way to sub categorize the "Oprah" program with a specific guest name. You could only sub categorize with another category (which would not serve any useful purpose in this case as any result would still be too broad).

I utilize many wishlists, so I'm just looking to improve upon my methods, if at all possible. Actually, in typing this out, I may have discovered a different technique already, but others feedback would be appreciated here. :)

Cruel,

If you are not doing so already, you may want to try making more extensive use of quotes (pause button). You can create keyword wishlists with some phrases in quotes and others not.

As far as finding specific episodes, you would probably have to know the name of the episode you wanted, which you can find on a site like wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Seinfeld_episodes). If you don't recognize the episode name or description, you can use the episode year to limit the search results and then include the name of of an item or issue prominently featured in that episode. For example, searching Seinfeld episodes for 1994 and pizza would return one result.

Oh!, so by using quotation marks to surround the wishlist terms, much like doing searches on the net, only those phrases ordered EXACTLY how the words appear within the quotes will be found? If so, that's good! That'll save me from having to manually delete erroneous wishlist recordings resulting from wishlist words showing up in random order within the descriptions of other unwanted programs.

For example, if there was an episode of some program called 'Top of the Morning' that I wanted recorded should it ever turn up in the program guide, if I don't use quotation marks to surround this title, I might end up with some other random show recorded because that programs episode description just so happens to incorporate all of my wishlist words, but in random order. Maybe something like: "Joe must leave for Houston in the morning and to top it off, the love of his life calls when he is away."

Quotation marks should eliminate that problem then.. cool. :)




Now, in the case of '"Paris Hilton" interviews', could I create something like the following for my wishlist keyword title line?:

"paris hilton" interview OR interviews


where in the above, if in the program description and/or the title description, it does not include the word "interview" but does include "interviews" as in 'Barbara Walters interviews Paris Hilton', this method will ensure that I get the recording I want without having to resort to making two separate paris hilton wishlists, one with "interview" and the second with the plural, "interviews".

In other words, can I use "OR" and "AND" commands, or, "+" and "-" commands to help bring even more precise focus to my wishlist creations? Or are quotations the only applicable qualifier available?

thanks again.

QUESTION:

Does anyone know what would cause low signal strengths (81-84) on my Encore and HBO channels? The rest of the channels are 94+.

QUESTION:

Does anyone know what would cause low signal strengths (81-84) on my Encore and HBO channels? The rest of the channels are 94+.

Unfortunately the signal strength guide on the S3 is not very dependable. To get a true check of your signal strength I strongly recommend you have a tech come out and check all of your connections all the way out to the box. They can tweak it with different splitters or add an amplifier. This way you know you have the best signals for your S3 or HD TiVo. :)

"paris hilton" interview OR interviews


where in the above, if in the program description and/or the title description, it does not include the word "interview" but does include "interviews" as in 'Barbara Walters interviews Paris Hilton', this method will ensure that I get the recording I want without having to resort to making two separate paris hilton wishlists, one with "interview" and the second with the plural, "interviews".



You could make this simpler with:

"paris hilton" interview*

You type the asterisk (*) by using the "slow" button on the remote

Oh!, so by using quotation marks to surround the wishlist terms, much like doing searches on the net, only those phrases ordered EXACTLY how the words appear within the quotes will be found?Yes.

A wishlist with the keywords presidential and debate doesn't work that well, but a wishlist with "presidential debate" works very well.

Now, in the case of '"Paris Hilton" interviews', could I create something like the following for my wishlist keyword title line?:

"paris hilton" interview OR interviewsYou can't use OR or AND. But you can use wildcards as noted above.

At one time, there was a code to enable more advanced wislist options, but Tivo disabled it some time ago. When that was available, you could create one entry that specified a specific director, a specific actor, with a specific genre and keyword. You could also forbid results that matched a certain keyword (NOT / WITHOUT).

I just had this happen to me twice and wondered if anyone else had experienced it.

I was recording two HD shows and the S3 was also downloading a TiVocast (the blue download light was on). I was also playing back an HD show. The tivo then froze for a few seconds and then rebooted.

I let it boot up and it started recording the two HD shows again, and the blue download light came on. I then started playing back the recorded HD show. A couple of minutes later, it rebooted again.

I let it boot up but have not touched it. It is now recording the two HD shows and downloading the TiVocast, but has not rebooted.

I have an Apricorn 500GB external esata drive. Maybe there was just too much data being recorded/accessed which caused the S3 to restart?

I just had this happen to me twice and wondered if anyone else had experienced it.

I was recording two HD shows and the S3 was also downloading a TiVocast (the blue download light was on). I was also playing back an HD show. The tivo then froze for a few seconds and then rebooted.

I let it boot up and it started recording the two HD shows again, and the blue download light came on. I then started playing back the recorded HD show. A couple of minutes later, it rebooted again.

I let it boot up but have not touched it. It is now recording the two HD shows and downloading the TiVocast, but has not rebooted.

I have an Apricorn 500GB external esata drive. Maybe there was just too much data being recorded/accessed which caused the S3 to restart?

Since it records fine without recording without playing that one show it might be something toxic in that recording you are trying to play. Did you try to play anything else you recorded while doing this or just the one show? I doubt the eSATA has anything to do with it , I have a 500gb eSATA and never had that happen.

Since it records fine without recording without playing that one show it might be something toxic in that recording you are trying to play. Did you try to play anything else you recorded while doing this or just the one show? I doubt the eSATA has anything to do with it , I have a 500gb eSATA and never had that happen.

I wouldn't be so quick to discount the eSATA as being the culprit. There are scattered reports of people's previously rock-solid S3's crashing occasionally after the addition of an eSATA drive. I've read just enough of those crash reports to be slightly skeptical of the eSATA implementation in the 8.3.1 code base...

I have an Apricorn 500GB external esata drive. Maybe there was just too much data being recorded/accessed which caused the S3 to restart?

It's like those Visa commercials where everything is flowing in a nicely choregraphed dance until someone jams up the works by pulling cash out their wallet. I imagine adding the second drive messes up the timing in unpredicable ways, especially if an occasional error on the foreign drive causes it to have a mini-fit of retries.

My eSATA drive (which I'd originally purchased to use with an SARA-running SA8300HD from Cox) seemed to work just fine for months and eventually ended up causing it to reboot repeatedly. I almost boxed the thing up to send back for service before I thought to divorce the external drive. It hasn't exhibited any problems since.

I've decided to wait on using an external drive until TiVo releases supported code for it. If it works for you, fine, but having the capacity to save a lot of recordings doesn't help if you eventually end up losing it all due to some problem that you can't even complain to TiVo about.

hey everybody, long-time reader/first-time poster here
just got the new $300 tivo HD and am in the process of getting it set up with two charter cableCARDS (yikes, charter). this is probably a silly question but i am not exactly sure what i gain from truly subscribing to the tivo service. i seem to already be able to make recordings, search for programs, etc. is this just a trial period? if i subscribe i plan to do the 3yr pre-paid option but i just still haven't found anything giving me a clear cut list of the advantages.
thanks in advance for the help.
-millie

hey everybody, long-time reader/first-time poster here
just got the new $300 tivo HD and am in the process of getting it set up with two charter cableCARDS (yikes, charter). this is probably a silly question but i am not exactly sure what i gain from truly subscribing to the tivo service. i seem to already be able to make recordings, search for programs, etc. is this just a trial period? if i subscribe i plan to do the 3yr pre-paid option but i just still haven't found anything giving me a clear cut list of the advantages.
thanks in advance for the help.You're are on the trial period. I believe it's 30 days. Edit: Apparently it's now 7 days. They give you time to evaluate the service first.

Note the current TivoHD software exhibits some problems -- namely, pixelization -- when Scientific Atlanta CableCards are used. Unfortunately, Charter uses Scientific CableCards. The problem is worse for some customers than others. Tivo has said they are working on a software fix, but you may decide to wait until that fix is out before you commit to three years of service.

If you bought at retail, I'm guessing you have 30 days to evaluate the service and return the unit before committing to a contract. Hopefully, Tivo will release a fix for the SA CableCard issues before that time is up.

More information here:

http://www.tivolovers.com/2007/08/04/tivo-hd-video-issues-continue-despite-software-update/

You're are on the trial period. I believe it's 30 days. They give you time to evaluate the service first.




You have to sign up with TiVo service within 7 days of plugging it in. It's not 30 days.

You have to sign up with TiVo service within 7 days of plugging it in. It's not 30 days.Ahh, I guess that has changed since I signed up.

In that case, I would call Tivo and ask them if they could extend the trial period to 30 days and/or until the SA CableCard pixelization issue is fixed. I believe Megazone reported that Tivo was doing that.

You might be confusing the 7 day trial w/o a subscription with the 30 days you have to cancel your Tivo subscription once you sign up.

You might be confusing the 7 day trial w/o a subscription with the 30 days you have to cancel your Tivo subscription once you sign up.

In fact it really isn't a trial, it's just giving you some time to call them to make it convenient for you. Of course you can still cancel in 30 days as you state.

37 day trial if you time it right.

Don't forget that none of the additional broadband-only features are available during the initial "7 days to subscribe" period. No Amazon Unbox, Download TV & Movies, Universal Swivel Search. Also no MRV/TTG (though those currently aren't available on THD)

hey everybody, long-time reader/first-time poster here
just got the new $300 tivo HD and am in the process of getting it set up with two charter cableCARDS (yikes, charter). this is probably a silly question but i am not exactly sure what i gain from truly subscribing to the tivo service. i seem to already be able to make recordings, search for programs, etc. is this just a trial period? if i subscribe i plan to do the 3yr pre-paid option but i just still haven't found anything giving me a clear cut list of the advantages.
thanks in advance for the help.
-millie

The biggest advantage is in the primary DVR functions. Tivo is far more reliable than any cable offering to date. You won't miss a recording. There is also overlap protection (clip the first or last few minutes of a program if necessary to also record a higher priority program) and automatic extend live prompting (for sports and live events). Also, for viewing, rewind correction, 30 second skip and general navigation is better than cable DVRs.

Most people don't realize that Tivo enhances the guide data and provides far more info (and keeps it up to date) than the cablecos.

Search and wishlist capabilities to find programs you are interested simply blow away any of the competition and the new universal swivel search has taken that to a new level. Tivo offers online search/scheduling from the web. Hear about a program at work that's on tonight? Log on and tell your Tivo to record it. Or, if you have a Verizon phone, use your phone.

Additional features if you are connected via broadband - download TV & Movie programming (free, buy to own, rent), check out local movie theatre info/buy tickets. listen to music/podcasts. You can also use your Tivo to manage your music and photos over your home network.

There are demos and far more info at tivo.com

Has anyone here used Tivo to stream music over your home network. I assume you use the TiVo Wireless G USB Network Adapter, does the Tivo work with iTunes or do you use Tivo software for the music catalog?

Has anyone here used Tivo to stream music over your home network. I assume you use the TiVo Wireless G USB Network Adapter, does the Tivo work with iTunes or do you use Tivo software for the music catalog?I've tried it and can attest to the fact that it works. The UI is barely adequate and it can only play MP3 files (my music library is mostly encoded in WMA). I also have a PC and two game consoles connected to my HT system; I can play my music from the PC, the Xbox 360, PS3 or TiVo S3. TiVo would be my last choice.

It looks like I can pick up a new S3 with 3 years service pre--paid for between $600-700 from an independent seller...would most agree that this is still the way to go over the TivoHD? And since this already have the 3 yr. sub pre-paid, I assume it is activated under the seller's name...is there a problem getting that transferred, just in case I wanted to add a second box down the line and get the multi-unit discount?

Thanks in advance!

Randy

At this point I'd probably buy the TiVo HD. The features that TiVo S3 has over and above it aren't worth the addition $300 or $400.

At this point I'd probably buy the TiVo HD. The features that TiVo S3 has over and above it aren't worth the addition $300 or $400.

Thanks for the reply...in this case, the cost I mentioned includes the 3-year sub, so it would be anywhere from say $35-115 (after shipping, depending on final sales price) more than a TiVo HD + the 3 year sub.....

Randy

It looks like I can pick up a new S3 with 3 years service pre--paid for between $600-700 from an independent seller...would most agree that this is still the way to go over the TivoHD? And since this already have the 3 yr. sub pre-paid, I assume it is activated under the seller's name...is there a problem getting that transferred, just in case I wanted to add a second box down the line and get the multi-unit discount?

Thanks in advance!

Randy

I think I'd still stick with the S3 over the TiVoHD to simply avoid the THD's current video output problems. Along with that, you'd get the larger internal drive, a usable eSATA implementation (jumpstart62 doesn't work on the THD right now).

Has anyone here used Tivo to stream music over your home network. I assume you use the TiVo Wireless G USB Network Adapter, does the Tivo work with iTunes or do you use Tivo software for the music catalog?

There's a few different ways to do this. They all implement a server running on your PC, and allow you to stream your music from the PC to the TiVo.

You can use the official method from TiVo, which is the TiVo Desktop server/application. You configure it with the paths where you keep your music, and it makes it those available to stream to your TiVo. The UI isn't great, and I don't believe it interoperates with iTunes.

Galleon is an alternate server that streams music, in addition to a bunch of other stuff like showing weather, traffic, podcasts, POP mail access, etc. It's a little more difficult to set up than the TiVo Desktop, but it's got far more goodies to play with.

I've tried it and can attest to the fact that it works. The UI is barely adequate and it can only play MP3 files (my music library is mostly encoded in WMA). I also have a PC and two game consoles connected to my HT system; I can play my music from the PC, the Xbox 360, PS3 or TiVo S3. TiVo would be my last choice.


You can play your WMA files and also AAC files so long as the protection is removed. Take a look at this (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=295778) . Dan, a moderator at the TiVo forum developed this and it works great. As far as removing the protection from the AAC files, that can be done too but I'm not giving all the answers. Google is your friend. ;)

Alrighty, I just purchased my series 3 HD tivo. I'm moving into my apartment and I am having comcast install my cable, internet, and my tivo cable card. Am I on the right track so far? I will be purchasing a phillips 42" 1080p lcd tomorrow so that will be brand new as well.

So how does everyone rate this guy on a scale of 1-10? Thanks!!

Edit: Holy crap! Are people really having HUGE problems with this machine???????

Alrighty, I just purchased my series 3 HD tivo. I'm moving into my apartment and I am having comcast install my cable, internet, and my tivo cable card. Am I on the right track so far? I will be purchasing a phillips 42" 1080p lcd tomorrow so that will be brand new as well.

So how does everyone rate this guy on a scale of 1-10? Thanks!!

Edit: Holy crap! Are people really having HUGE problems with this machine???????
Sounds good, once you get past the CableCARD install, and some installs are a breeze in fact, you should be good to go. The CC install might be the only troublesome part of your plan.

Sounds good, once you get past the CableCARD install, and some installs are a breeze in fact, you should be good to go. The CC install might be the only troublesome part of your plan.


How do I get prepared? When I called and added the cable card install, the woman sounded like she knew what I meant ;)

How do I get prepared? When I called and added the cable card install, the woman sounded like she knew what I meant ;)
Well, there's a setup info sheet that comes with the S3 that's specifically for CableCARD install, I would familiarize yourself with that before the installer gets there.

I'm not sure if there is a line by line FAQ in this thread or not as to CC install, I believe there is one at TiVo Community.

It's been a looooong time since I installed mine, but from postings I've read, one thing to remember is to do one at a time, don't let them plug both in and try to initialize it, and make sure you're using the right slot, the numbering is a bit counter-intuitive and may conflict with Comcast's idea of Slot 1 and Slot 2, I've seen that being a problem as well. I think the TiVo uses Slot 0 and Slot 1.

Not much help, sorry about that, I would look at TC and maybe someone here has a link to a post that outlines what you need to do.

Make sure that they plug the cable into the right coax connection. One of them is for antenna only--my installer plugged it into that connection when I wasn't looking and then wasted his and my afternoon (4+ hours) trying to diagnose why it wasn't working. He was going to walk away with the assumption that the TiVo was faulty when I finally noticed.

Thanks guys :)!

I'm a little bit weary about all of it. On the tivo comm forum, there is a huge thread saying NOT to get a tivo3 HD................but who knows......I don't, lol.

Does somebody have a link to where I can just print out a page and give to my installer?! Thanks!!

How do I get prepared? When I called and added the cable card install, the woman sounded like she knew what I meant ;)

First, go through the guided set-up yourself with the cable plugged in correctly before the installer arrives. Do this as soon as possible before the tech arrives so you are familiar with both the TiVo and your TV, and to set up any networking or phone connection. (I guess if you are a new customer, your cable won't be active, will it? But, still, do as much as you can up front.)

The two slots, slot 1 and slot 2, are numbered right to left in the front of the machine. The installer should plug in the first card in the right-hand slot and let it finish initializing. S/he can then plug in the second one (assuming two single cards). After that, they will call in to the office and finish your account set-up for both cards at the same time. Given that the tech will be on hold 5-30 minutes before they can talk to someone, they don't like to go through that ordeal twice.

Mostly, be courteous, even if things don't go so well the first time. Most of us here have used TiVos and other DVRs for some time, so it would be good to hear how a brand new set-up went for a self-admitted novice.

Does somebody have a link to where I can just print out a page and give to my installer?! Thanks!!

When you unpack your S3 there is a separate sheet with the cable card installation instructions that you give to your installer.

First, go through the guided set-up yourself with the cable plugged in correctly before the installer arrives. Do this as soon as possible before the tech arrives so you are familiar with both the TiVo and your TV, and to set up any networking or phone connection. (I guess if you are a new customer, your cable won't be active, will it? But, still, do as much as you can up front.)

The two slots, slot 1 and slot 2, are numbered right to left in the front of the machine. The installer should plug in the first card in the right-hand slot and let it finish initializing. S/he can then plug in the second one (assuming two single cards). After that, they will call in to the office and finish your account set-up for both cards at the same time. Given that the tech will be on hold 5-30 minutes before they can talk to someone, they don't like to go through that ordeal twice.

Mostly, be courteous, even if things don't go so well the first time. Most of us here have used TiVos and other DVRs for some time, so it would be good to hear how a brand new set-up went for a self-admitted novice.


I will definitely be patient and respectful. I will update all of you when this process is finished. I have the series one tivo right now and I love it, but this is a whole different creature and I'm really excited about having my new LCD 1080p and tivo!!

Thanks again.

My experience was that cable cards were the issue, not the tech. One of them, the installers tried didn't even come up properly on the pairing screen. A few others seemed to work, but would not decrypt.

Took them three visits to get it all working. First visit was on a Sat, and "no was was available in addressing" Second vist, only one card worked, the others were clearly bad. Third visit, one of the cards he brought worked.

It looks like I can pick up a new S3 with 3 years service pre--paid for between $600-700 from an independent seller...would most agree that this is still the way to go over the TivoHD? And since this already have the 3 yr. sub pre-paid, I assume it is activated under the seller's name...is there a problem getting that transferred, just in case I wanted to add a second box down the line and get the multi-unit discount?

Thanks in advance!

Randy

Technically, you can't transfer a Tivo from one account to another unless it has a lifetime sub.

But if the original owner doesn't mind - "assume" his account and change the email/password as needed.

Technically, you can't transfer a Tivo from one account to another unless it has a lifetime sub.

But if the original owner doesn't mind - "assume" his account and change the email/password as needed.


Hmmm...I wonder if I messed up. This seems to be a pretty good deal (it was on eBay and the guy has great feedback and he has sold several S3s)...I paid ~$660 shipped for a new S3 with 3-yr prepaid service. In speaking with him it is not supposed to be a refurb or anything. Now I am getting a little worried about what would happen if I want to add a second box down the line and get the multi-unit discount, and in reading over at TCF it looks like I could have problems regarding some multi-room stuff that is supposed to be coming soon. And that doesn't even consider the whole warranty thing...maybe I didn't think this deal through. :( I have sent the guy a note to ask a couple of questions on how he deals with this stuff....hopefully I'll get a good answer (or at least a reply).

Thanks for the info....sorta. ;)

Randy

im considering picking up a tivo series 3 because comcast is now charging a monthly fee of $17.99 for dvr services. will i lose on-demand if i switch to tivo with cable cards?

two questions for me as I consider a series 3 purchase.

(1) If I run HDMI out to my Onkyo 905, then hdmi out to a dvi adaptor for my disply (commercial panny plasma with dvi blade) will I still get sound

(2) what about the rumors in 2008 that sdv implementation with cable operators will render a lot of tivo's useless

(1) If I run HDMI out to my Onkyo 905, then hdmi out to a dvi adaptor for my disply (commercial panny plasma with dvi blade) will I still get sound
DVI connection will not pass sound, only video. However, you should be able to pass the audio on composite in parallel with the digital video on the HDMI/DVI connection.

- Dan

im considering picking up a tivo series 3 because comcast is now charging a monthly fee of $17.99 for dvr services. will i lose on-demand if i switch to tivo with cable cards?

Yes. No Video-On-Demand (VOD) or Pay-Per-View (PPV) with the Series3/TiVoHD. TiVo fans would say that the need for VOD/PPV are significantly decreased once you've got your TiVo up and running, though.

(2) what about the rumors in 2008 that sdv implementation with cable operators will render a lot of tivo's useless

SDV, as currently constituted, will certainly make the current CableCARD TiVo's a less attractive proposition. That said, the extent to which SDV gets rolled out by the various cableco's has yet to be determined. Time Warner Cable seems pretty hell bent on rolling it out every where. Comcast is still putting it through it's paces in lab and field trials, and hasn't really said if they're going to roll it out everywhere. Not sure about Cox and Charter.

DVI connection will not pass sound, only video. However, you should be able to pass the audio on composite in parallel with the digital video on the HDMI/DVI connection.

- Dan


Hmm

I have a PS3 thats connected the same way and it passes sound. The commercial plasma has no speakers and uses a dvi board for 1080op. If the PS3 can pass sound why cant the tivo?

two questions for me as I consider a series 3 purchase.

(1) If I run HDMI out to my Onkyo 905, then hdmi out to a dvi adaptor for my disply (commercial panny plasma with dvi blade) will I still get sound

(2) what about the rumors in 2008 that sdv implementation with cable operators will render a lot of tivo's useless(1) Dan, I think that you misunderstand the first question. If you run HDMI into your receiver (and its HDMI connections aren't just pass-through ones, which I'm fairly certain that the Onkyo 905's aren't) you should still get the sound out of your receiver, even though you're running HDMI-to-DVI from your receiver into your television. The sound won't travel from the receiver to your television, since DVI-D doesn't carry sound, but it will travel from TiVo to the receiver.

(2) The cable companies are trying to virtually expand their bandwidth with the use of a technology called Switched Digital Video. In the SDV scheme, the terminal (set-top box or television) tells the system what channel it wants to tune and the system tells it where to find that channel (which sub-program on which QAM carrier). When no one is watching a particular channel in a network segment (typically between 500 and 2000 subscribers), no bandwidth will be allocated for it on that segment. If the subscribers on a segment are only watchng 50 out of 300 available channels, only the bandwidth required for those 50 channels will be in use on that segment.

In order for SDV to work, the terminals have to be able to tell the system what channels they're tuning. TiVo Series 3 and TiVo HD do not physically contain the necessary electronics to allow them to talk back to the network.

If your cable provider starts using SDV, they probably won't put all of the channels in it--all the most popular ones will remain static, since they will all be tuned by one or more subscribers in every segment at all times. But the dynamically assigned services will become unaccessible by terminals (like TiVo) which can't use the SDV protocols to request them. There is some talk about the cable providers creating an alternate method by which TiVos could request channels and receive the new mappings, possibly by talking to the cable system through the Internet. We'll see what happens.

Yes. No Video-On-Demand (VOD) or Pay-Per-View (PPV) with the Series3/TiVoHD. TiVo fans would say that the need for VOD/PPV are significantly decreased once you've got your TiVo up and running, though.


wow i didnt even know about VOD being available. that kinda takes me out of the tivo fan club. i usualy order WWE, boxing, and ultimate fighting so not having that option isnt gonna fly. i might be able to live without vod but not without ppv.

looks like going D* is my only option to getting away from a $17.99 dvr charge and still keeping my ppv options open. kinda sucks that fios isnt gonna be available in my area for a long time.

thanks for the help. you kept me from making a huge mistake because tivo just wouldnt work for me.

wow i didnt even know about VOD being available. that kinda takes me out of the tivo fan club. i usualy order WWE, boxing, and ultimate fighting so not having that option isnt gonna fly. i might be able to live without vod but not without ppv.You'd probably still be able to order PPV by calling up the cable provider. That's how PPV was originally used before Impulse PPV was implemented in the STBs. Some cable providers have a method of ordering PPV on their websites for CableCARD users (both Cox and TWC in San Diego do).

( TiVo Series 3 and TiVo HD do not physically contain the necessary electronics to allow them to talk back to the network.
.

Do we know this for sure for the TiVo HD? It's a little later design with some different components than the original Series 3.

You'd probably still be able to order PPV by calling up the cable provider. That's how PPV was originally used before Impulse PPV was implemented in the STBs. Some cable providers have a method of ordering PPV on their websites for CableCARD users (both Cox and TWC in San Diego do).


the way im looking at now is if im gonna lose the on demand service anyways then i might as well go to D* since the package i get now is less with them. it amazing any town would keep fios out with the prices comcast is charging now. their is no reason we should get 2 price increases in 1 year for dvr services but it did happen.

im not thrilled with going to D but if its gonna save me $30 a month then i might as well go for it. i love VOD but it isnt worth $30.

Do we know this for sure for the TiVo HD? It's a little later design with some different components than the original Series 3.

We're certain. In fact, TiVo is precluded by the licensing agreements they've signed with CableLabs from producing a box which can support bi-directional activities such as VOD and PPV. Since TiVo only has a uni-directional license, what you see is what you get. The Series3 and TiVoHD do not have the necessary RF transmit gear to interact with the head-end to support those features.

the way im looking at now is if im gonna lose the on demand service anyways then i might as well go to D* since the package i get now is less with them. it amazing any town would keep fios out with the prices comcast is charging now. their is no reason we should get 2 price increases in 1 year for dvr services but it did happen.

im not thrilled with going to D but if its gonna save me $30 a month then i might as well go for it. i love VOD but it isnt worth $30.

Be aware that DirecTV is compressing the crap out of their video signal right now, to the point that it's not even HD any more. See the multitude of references to HD-Lite around these boards. Not that I'm a Comcast apologist by any stretch of the imagination, but it's something you should be aware of.

If you're that hard up for VOD, you can always rent a little box to do that and get the TiVoHD to do all of the other stuff.

I've read that in some places Comcast is providing a free (non-HD) STB for CableCard customers interested in VOD or PPV.

I've read that in some places Comcast is providing a free (non-HD) STB for CableCard customers interested in VOD or PPV.

Any cable company STB with a cable card including HD will do VOD or PPV. They are capable of two way communication. That is if they actually work. :)

Be aware that DirecTV is compressing the crap out of their video signal right now, to the point that it's not even HD any more. See the multitude of references to HD-Lite around these boards. Not that I'm a Comcast apologist by any stretch of the imagination, but it's something you should be aware of.

If you're that hard up for VOD, you can always rent a little box to do that and get the TiVoHD to do all of the other stuff.

You can also buy PPV with a regular HD STB (or any STB).

In my area I can purchase PPV by calling my cable company for my S3.

I've read that in some places Comcast is providing a free (non-HD) STB for CableCard customers interested in VOD or PPV.
Any cable company STB with a cable card including HD will do VOD or PPV. They are capable of two way communication. That is if they actually work. :)
I believe what bicker1 was talking about was for customers using their CableCards in a third-party device such as a CableCard capable TV or a TiVo S3 or HD. Comcast offered me one without my asking, though I did turn it down. This box would not be a DVR, of course.

[QUOTE=michaeltscott](1) Dan, I think that you misunderstand the first question. If you run HDMI into your receiver (and its HDMI connections aren't just pass-through ones, which I'm fairly certain that the Onkyo 905's aren't) you should still get the sound out of your receiver, even though you're running HDMI-to-DVI from your receiver into your television. The sound won't travel from the receiver to your television, since DVI-D doesn't carry sound, but it will travel from TiVo to the receiver.

So unlike the 8300HD DVR, the TIVO should produce sound through the receiver. I would prefer one cable than using optical.

THanks

Any cable company STB with a cable card including HD will do VOD or PPV. They are capable of two way communication. That is if they actually work. :)Yup... what I was referring to is folks who have CableCards in OTHER devices.

(1) Dan, I think that you misunderstand the first question. If you run HDMI into your receiver ... you should still get the sound out of your receiver, even though you're running HDMI-to-DVI from your receiver into your television. ...Thank you for correcting, you are right. I answered if DVI can pass audio, and that wasn't actually the question.

- Dan

[QUOTE=michaeltscott]So unlike the 8300HD DVR, the TIVO should produce sound through the receiver. I would prefer one cable than using optical.I've got seven devices from seven different OEMs hooked up this way: a 46" 1080p Mitsubishi LCD panel, Onkyo receiver, Belkin 4-into-1 switch, TiVo Series 3, Sony PS3, Toshiba HD-A20 and RCA DVD recorder. I haven't had any problems and lord knows it eliminated a ton of audio cables. HDMI rocks :).

I believe what bicker1 was talking about was for customers using their CableCards in a third-party device such as a CableCard capable TV or a TiVo S3 or HD.

I'm not sure you got my point. There was no disagreement with bicker1, just a fact that if you get a DVR with cable card from the cable company it will work in a two way communication, unlike the S3. So therefore there is no need to get a regular STB, unless you had some other reason.

Tivo update for macroblocking coming

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5422752&&#post5422752

Tivo update for macroblocking coming

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5422752&&#post5422752


Just to be clear, this is for the TiVo HD, it has nothing to do with the S3.

Tivo update for macroblocking coming

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5422752&&#post5422752That update appears to eliminate the last of the pixelization on my TivoHD with Motorola CableCards.

Previously, I was seeing intermittent pixelization about five times per hour (sometimes more, sometimes less) on Verizon FiOS with 2x Motorola S-Cards. In the two hours since the update, I have yet to see any pixelization on any channel.

Yeah, that info should in the "Official TivoHD" thread. Unfortunately, I don't see one, all I see is a "TivoHD is here" thread. Perhaps we need an "official" thread.

Yeah, that info should in the "Official TivoHD" thread. Unfortunately, I don't see one, all I see is a "TivoHD is here" thread. Perhaps we need an "official" thread.

There seems to be quite a few people who have purchased the TiVo HD. The S3 and the TiVo HD, while close as cousins are not the same product, clearly demonstrated by the update that just went out for the TiVo HD. Personally, I think this is a good idea and someone with the TiVo HD should take the initiative to start an "Official TiVo HD" thread.