Thanks guys. I don't feel too stupid now, as that isn't completely obvious. I wonder why they don't just provide an "on/off" button on the remote that shuts everything down. My old HD DVR has that option. Then it just turns itself on one minute before recording starts and turns itself off one minute after recording is completed.

Do most people just leave the Tivo on and not utilize stand-by?

I will say the Series 3 is pretty quiet, and it does not give off much heat. Not as much as my older HD receivers.

They did not include a power toggle button on the Series 2 as well. At least the Sony Series 1 had a power toggle, not sure about the Tivo branded Series 1. In any case, I use a Harmony remote with my Series 3 and have noticed that there is a power off command, even if it is not included on the remote. That being said, power off is really only standby mode and the TiVo still buffers two channels of live TV in standby. The main difference is that the front display turns off (except the red LEDs indicating recording) and the A/V output is turned off.

When in stand-by, can you still schedule recordings via the internet? i.e., Will Tivo.com still be able to communicate with the receiver in stand-by?

Thanks,
Dave

I believe you can still schedule recordings while the receiver is in standby. I will find out later today as I just added a recording today at work and my receiver is in standby at home (attached to the internet through ethernet). I have a feeling most functions are still active in standby, except the front display and A/V output. Anyone care to chime in with the official verdict?

Does the tivo3 allow viewing a program while accessing guides/playing lists, etc.?

Is the tivo3 as fast as the moto at setting up recordings?

Thank you.
if watching a prerecorded show and choose the guide just like the hd tivo it will switch to one of the live channels.. was hoping they would at least change this with the S3 argh...

can't speak to the moto but have the S3 and hd tivo and the S3 is blazing fast so far. i know it is 2 years newer and only 8 hours recorded in HD and 11 season passes so far but when you choose a function it is virtually like 1 2 done. my hdtvio is still on 3.5 F software was hoping for some speedup if 6.3 gets downloaded.

at first the PQ looked to pop but when set the inputs correctly it is maybe a hair better than the hdtvo on SD and same on HD.

Do like the click feel of the remote.

i think most just leave them on don't even worry about putting in standby. some with the hdtivo would put on a blank sat channel so nothing to record.

... I am able to tune digital channels like 783 (the local ABC affiliate's HD channel), even though the card isn't properly paired/authorized. Other channels say "NOT AUTHORIZED" even though I actually do subscribe to them.

That's because the channels aren't scrambled. Thus, you should be able to tune them without a cable card as long as the set has a QAM tuner. IT"S THE LAW.

I am considering this new tivo both for the better picture and the better scheduling of tivo over the Comcast hddvr I currently have but I don't understand why the picture would be better with the tivo box. Do local cable companies have poor pictures because of the bad hardware in my home that processes the cable signals or are the signals originating from the local cable companies poor quality or both.? If its the latter, the new box won't help, correct? Right now, some of my SD stations are horrible and some are fair which would make me think the problem is with the signal from the cable company and not the box in my house. Will this new box also help sound quality-we intermittently get low volume on certain stations (usually on shows in dolby digital or surround) when I use the coaxial cable output from the HDDVR to an analog tv.

I replaced my SARA 8300HD with a Series 3 yesterday and the picture quality difference is noticable. (Much more so on the NON HD channels). I was using Monster THX certified component with the 8300HD (no active HDMI) and I am using HDMI (supplied cable with the TiVo)



I think we have to be very careful when comparing picture quality on the new Tivo and other units that were used prior. Many people will be replacing units that were hooked up via component cables and now will be using HDMI. This is not a fair test since most times we would expect the picture to be better via HDMI even with the same source device.

So I'm interested in hearing people comment on picture quality that were using HDMI before and HDMI now with the new Tivo. That will be a much more scientific test.

Also, does the new Tivo eliminate the buffer delay like other PVRs? I always found it annoying that watching 'live' TV on the Tivo wasn't really live, but rather delayed about a second or two.

I think we have to be very careful when comparing picture quality on the new Tivo and other units that were used prior. Many people will be replacing units that were hooked up via component cables and now will be using HDMI. This is not a fair test since most times we would expect the picture to be better via HDMI even with the same source device.

So I'm interested in hearing people comment on picture quality that were using HDMI before and HDMI now with the new Tivo. That will be a much more scientific test.

Also, does the new Tivo eliminate the buffer delay like other PVRs? I always found it annoying that watching 'live' TV on the Tivo wasn't really live, but rather delayed about a second or two.I was using components before and am using them now....had a Sammy SIR-T151. PQ with the S3 is NOTICEABLY better....MUCH better for SD...and APPRECIABLY better in HD.

Has anyone bought a TiVo Series 3 to replace a SA8300HD-DVR from their CATV provider? How does the quality of recorded content compare between these two units? Is there a noticeable difference in picture that can be attributed to the respective tuners/MPEG decoders? Are the input signals w/CableCARD selectable (e.g. 480p & 1080i)? My 50PX50U will support only native incoming signals 480i/720p/1080i w/CableCARD installed and IMO... 480i up converted to 480p & 720p up converted to 1080i seem to look best on this TV.

I have had the Series 3 since Monday.

Its replacing a SA8300. The 8300 is a piece of junk compared to the Tivo Series 3.

Analog cable looks pretty darn good through the S3. Never seen it better on my Sammy DLP.

And of course, its a TiVo.

'Nuff said.

Has anyone gone to play a recording and found a black screen instead? I noticed today that when my S3 went to record the "recap" Gray's Anatomy episode at 8:00, and I went to look at live television (what should have been Gray's Anatomy), and it was just a black screen. I forced the Tivo to switch channels (and end the recording), and I then flipped back, and the picture/sound were back. If I hadn't been paying attention (actually if my wife wasn't paying attention), I might have missed this recording.

The trouble here is that I don't know if the show just came back on its own, or if the channel change fixed the problem. I wonder if the Tivo changes to the channel at just the right moment (maybe when the picture switches from a commercial to the full widescreen HD show), it can't sync, and all you get is a black screen.

On the other hand, the digital channel could have been off the air and came back while I was trying a different channel (the analog channel).

I am worried now about missed recordings because the digital channel might have glitches (this does happen around here every once in a while). I don't even have the analog "big 4" network channels in my "Channels you receive" list so it will always record the HD channel when using season passes.

If anyone else sees something like this happen please let us know here!

I think we have to be very careful when comparing picture quality on the new Tivo and other units that were used prior. Many people will be replacing units that were hooked up via component cables and now will be using HDMI. This is not a fair test since most times we would expect the picture to be better via HDMI even with the same source device.

So I'm interested in hearing people comment on picture quality that were using HDMI before and HDMI now with the new Tivo. That will be a much more scientific test.The Tivo 3 is hooked up via component as was the SIR-T165, and it is connected to the same TV input. The Tivo is worlds better than the T165, but the T165 is four-plus-year-old technology, so I expected it to be better.

One caveat...I took the Monster brand component cables that were connecting the DVD player to the TV and used those to connect the Tivo 3. I took the generic component cables that I was using for the T165 and used those to hook the DVD player to the TV. Since I haven't watched a DVD since the switch, I don't know how much depends on the brand of cable. I know most on here believe a cable is a cable, so in that case, the Tivo 3 is considerably better than the T165 (regardless of brand of component cable).

Having said that, I cannot wait to get a new TV with HDMI to see how this HD receiver looks. :p

Without cable or satellite (by choice), I ordered the S3 because my HTPC sure wasn't cutting it recording HD. The ATI tuner couldn't even pick up half the channels that my TV did and Windows Media Center is really a joke. Playback was always "iffy" and on more than one occasion I'd recorded shows that Windows refused to play back.

I received the S3 today, set it up, and it works better than I expected. Picture quality is terrific and the tuners pick up a few channels that my two year old TV (Hitachi) won't. Channel changes are fast and the dual tuners work great on analog and digital OTA.

Controlling the S3 is essentially identical to my series 2 and aside from a few minor changes to my universal remote that I'll have to make, it works with the series 2 remote settings.

The price was a bit higher than I would have liked but after seeing the S3 work and comparing it to the HTPC, now I feel that I wasted a lot of money on the HTPC.

I'm extremely pleased with the S3. If you're considering an HTPC or an S3, you're going to have a tough time finding an HTPC at the S3 price that has two analog and two HD tuners and really works!

I have had the Series 3 since Monday.

Its replacing a SA8300. The 8300 is a piece of junk compared to the Tivo Series 3.

Analog cable looks pretty darn good through the S3. Never seen it better on my Sammy DLP.

And of course, its a TiVo.

'Nuff said.

How so? Please elaborate.

I'm currently ignorant to everything TiVo and have no idea as to why someone would want to pay $799 for a box to record programs when I can get the SA8300HD-DVR for $6.95 a month from the local TW office. HD through the 8300HD to my 34XBR960 looks fantastic and I just don't see the logic in paying $800 for something I get for $85/yr.

"It's a TivO...nuff said." How is TiVo's DVR "better" than the 8300HD's DVR?

How so? Please elaborate.

I'm currently ignorant to everything TiVo and have no idea as to why someone would want to pay $799 for a box to record programs when I can get the SA8300HD-DVR for $6.95 a month from the local TW office. HD through the 8300HD to my 34XBR960 looks fantastic and I just don't see the logic in paying $800 for something I get for $85/yr.

"It's a TivO...nuff said." How is TiVo's DVR "better" than the 8300HD's DVR?

The TivO interface is fantastic. Wishlists, Suggestions, Thumbs Up/Down, Higher Capacity, Reliability

Once you have it... nothing else even comes close.

The interface is all I hear about with this unit. I'm not implying that everyone is just trying to find reasons for justifying the purchase of the box; however, I can't imagine that an interface is worth $800.

Reliability? With regards to what? I haven't had one issue with my 8300HD in the year or more I've had it.

Frankly, you get what you pay for.

The Tivo is expensive. So is a Rolex.

The Tivo, so far as we've seen, is the best at what it does. Picture quality, interface, THX certification, name it. Tivo is the world standard in DVR.

The Rolex may not be the best, but it is quality. It's tough. It takes abuse and keeps working. It doesn't leak underwater. Rolex is the world standard in watches.

The same argument applies. "Why would I buy a $10,000 Rolex when I can get a $100 Casio?"

If that's the logic that makes you tick (sorry) then follow it. But if you want the best...and having the best is more important than having a bargain, get the Tivo.

Or the Rolex.

Reliability? With regards to what? I haven't had one issue with my 8300HD in the year or more I've had it.

If you've never had an issue with a DVR, you either aren't asking it to do enough or set you expectations too low.

I think one of TiVo's best features is the recording history. When something 'mysterious' happens (i.e. I don't see a recording I expected), the recording history will give a complete explanation of what the conflict was.

triumph66,
If you're blissfully ignorant of why folks would pay this much, then I wouldn't ask anymore questions. No one here is trying to justify a purchase, I can assure you. The only people spending $800 for this puppy are people who KNOW the difference. I've had TiVo for 7 years. I've had a SA8300 for 2 years also. I would pay $1600 for a High Def TiVo. That's how valuable the interface is to me.

Now you didn't say whether you had the Passport software or SARA software on your SA box. If you have a good version of Passport, then it has many of the TiVo features and is pretty close. So then you may not be able to understand. But for those of us cursed with the dreaded SARA SA8300, there's no comparison. My SARA box is barely easier to use than a VCR.

The reliability comments are from tons of SA box users who've had nightmare experiences with missed recordings, random freezes and reboots, etc...

If you're happy with your SA box, then I'd jump out of a TiVo thread. Nothing for you to see here.

"My SARA box is barely easier to use than a VCR."

Jack, you are a lucky guy. My SARA 8300 is WORSE than any VCR. I can't rely on a manual recording because sometimes it fails. With a VCR I don't have a "play from the beginning" but at least I can rewind WITHOUT seeing the game result if I want to see a recording program. I can understand why people with a Dish 622 can be happy but everybody else should be dying to get a S3.

Sergio

triumph66,
If you're blissfully ignorant of why folks would pay this much, then I wouldn't ask anymore questions. No one here is trying to justify a purchase, I can assure you. The only people spending $800 for this puppy are people who KNOW the difference. I've had TiVo for 7 years. I've had a SA8300 for 2 years also. I would pay $1600 for a High Def TiVo. That's how valuable the interface is to me.

Now you didn't say whether you had the Passport software or SARA software on your SA box. If you have a good version of Passport, then it has many of the TiVo features and is pretty close. So then you may not be able to understand. But for those of us cursed with the dreaded SARA SA8300, there's no comparison. My SARA box is barely easier to use than a VCR.

Yes I do have the Passport software. Perhaps that is the reason for my lack of TiVo appreciation?

Frankly, I just can't imagine that the quality of HD I'm getting from the 8300HD is $800 less than that of what the TiVo unit outputs. There's just no way it's a night and day difference like SD to HD and it makes absolutely no sense, to me, to pay $800 for something that is included for free with my DVR subscription. $800 for a more functional interface? :confused:

I did have the hang-ups you mentioned with my older box, the regular 8300; however, after upgrading to the 8300HD-DVR(that appears to self-upgrade itself unlike the regular 8300) I have had no hesitations, pauses, missed recordings etc.

A couple of insights. First of all, for those wondering why some DVRs (Tivo) spin the hard drive constantly instead of starting and stopping like some DVRs (Ultimate TV) is because Tivo paid attention in school. Inertia is the answer.

A spinning hard drive wants to keep spinning with very little power needed. Constantly starting and stopping any motor or hard drive will reduce the life of the product. Any engineer will back this up.

As far as Tivo VS. the rest, some folks are power users and some are only addicted to three shows a week. If you want your DVR to be on the constant lookout, 24/7, for certain movie stars, favorite models, favorite musicians, for any show with the words “Best" and "Beaches” in it, and ten movies that you want to record if and when they come on, and anything with the word “China” in it along with 40 other items of interest to you . . . there is only one product that can do that for you. It’s a Tivo, and it’s called a “WishList.” Once you set up your WishList you no longer have to keep searching, searching, searching manually every week for things that interest you, And after a couple months, Tivo will even make logical guesses and auto record them if there is spare room on the drive.

Case in point: I loathe “The Apprentice” but I enjoy shows concerning sports cars. I came home last year to find an episode of “The Apprentice” on my Tivo as a Suggestion. Looking at the description revealed it was the episode where Donald Trump had the contestants come up with an ad campaign for the Lamborghini Geraldo. I didn’t have Lamborghini in my wish list, it was simply an educated guess based on my viewing habits. Cool episode. And no other DVR could or would have presented me with that show unaided.

People who drive Porsches are not pissed that they paid more than a Saturn owner. And once you drive a Tivo, everything else is a Yugo.

Another factor to consider is how much programming are you being required to purchase in order to get the cable DVR. I only want the local HD, which comes with a Limited Basic subscription, but I have to pay another $35-40 a month for channels I don't want before Comcast will rent me their DVR. I did the numbers awhile back, but the S3 will have paid for itself in less than 2 years time. You'll be paying for that cable DVR forever, and if you're paying for programming you don't want as well, it adds up pretty quick.

I have a couple of questions. First off, I have never owned or used a Tivo. I currently have HD service through Comcast with a Motorola 6412. I also use a JVC D-VHS to archive things I want to keep permanently.

In terms of long term archiving, am I correct in assuming I probably don't want to go with the Tivo? It does appear to have a firewire connection and from what I've been able to gather about the SATA connection, that won't seem to work either. It sounds like you will be able to add an external SATA drive in the future, but you won't be able to constantly switch drives. I think it creates a striped set with the internal drive so if you unplug it and then start recording to a new drive the information on the original external drive will no longer work. Is this correct?

Also, I'm somewhat unclear on whether the Tivo can search for programs that are only in high definition.

Another factor to consider is how much programming are you being required to purchase in order to get the cable DVR. I only want the local HD, which comes with a Limited Basic subscription, but I have to pay another $35-40 a month for channels I don't want before Comcast will rent me their DVR. I did the numbers awhile back, but the S3 will have paid for itself in less than 2 years time. You'll be paying for that cable DVR forever, and if you're paying for programming you don't want as well, it adds up pretty quick.DING DING DING....we have a winner!!!!!!

This is one of the PRIMARY factors I will NEVER go with a cable package. I'm currently paying about $20/month for my cable. If I had to go with every additional add-on they required before I could get an HD DVR (expanded basic, then digital, then HD, then DVR rental), I'd be very unhappy. Keenan hit the nail on the head.

I have a couple of questions. First off, I have never owned or used a Tivo. I currently have HD service through Comcast with a Motorola 6412. I also use a JVC D-VHS to archive things I want to keep permanently.

In terms of long term archiving, am I correct in assuming I probably don't want to go with the Tivo? It does appear to have a firewire connection and from what I've been able to gather about the SATA connection, that won't seem to work either. It sounds like you will be able to add an external SATA drive in the future, but you won't be able to constantly switch drives. I think it creates a striped set with the internal drive so if you unplug it and then start recording to a new drive the information on the original external drive will no longer work. Is this correct?

Also, I'm somewhat unclear on whether the Tivo can search for programs that are only in high definition.

The Tivo does NOT have a firewire connection, but it has a couple of USB connections. It is safe to say that you will never be able to archive in HD off the box (other than POSSIBLY using Tivo2Go if/when it is enabled in the future). This might allow viewing in HD on a laptop, but it can't be sent back to the Tivo (as far as I know).

Frankly, I just can't imagine that the quality of HD I'm getting from the 8300HD is $800 less than that of what the TiVo unit outputs. There's just no way it's a night and day difference like SD to HD and it makes absolutely no sense, to me, to pay $800 for something that is included for free with my DVR subscription. $800 for a more functional interface? :confused:

Well good for you. So tell me again why are you here in this thread? I smell a troll.

As far as Tivo VS. the rest, some folks are power users and some are only addicted to three shows a week. If you want your DVR to be on the constant lookout, 24/7, for certain movie stars, favorite models, favorite musicians, for any show with the words “Best" and "Beaches” in it, and ten movies that you want to record if and when they come on, and anything with the word “China” in it along with 40 other items of interest to you . . . there is only one product that can do that for you. It’s a Tivo, and it’s called a “WishList.” Once you set up your WishList you no longer have to keep searching, searching, searching manually every week for things that interest you, And after a couple months, Tivo will even make logical guesses and auto record them if there is spare room on the drive.

Case in point: I loathe “The Apprentice” but I enjoy shows concerning sports cars. I came home last year to find an episode of “The Apprentice” on my Tivo as a Suggestion. Looking at the description revealed it was the episode where Donald Trump had the contestants come up with an ad campaign for the Lamborghini Geraldo. I didn’t have Lamborghini in my wish list, it was simply an educated guess based on my viewing habits. Cool episode. And no other DVR could or would have presented me with that show unaided.

This was the one feature of my TiVo that I absolutely hated. It kept trying to record stuff that I had no interest in based on what it thought were my viewing habits. Wasted space for things I would never watch. I disabled the feature.

The difference is you at least had the feature to disable. :)

This was the one feature of my TiVo that I absolutely hated. It kept trying to record stuff that I had no interest in based on what it thought were my viewing habits. Wasted space for things I would never watch. I disabled the feature.
The difference is you at least had the feature to disable. :)
Yeah, why would you "hate" something that is so easily disabled? There are so many great features of the TiVo, but there's always a feature or two that some folks don't care for. "Hate" is such a strong word... :rolleyes:

This was the one feature of my TiVo that I absolutely hated. It kept trying to record stuff that I had no interest in based on what it thought were my viewing habits. Wasted space for things I would never watch. I disabled the feature.

It really isn't wasting space - these shows are automatically deleted if space is needed for recordings that you have scheduled.

I disabled it on my S2 because I didn't like it changing channels when I was watching live TV. This isn't as big a deal since the S3 has two tuners, and it can use the "inactive" tuner if it wants to record a Tivo Suggestion.

Hi...

Quick question....Tivo makes a wireless internet adapter...

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7384314&st=tivo&lp=4&type=product&cp=1&id=1122654250546

I believe that was made for the S2...so you could watch shows all over your house. But...

Can I use that with my S3 as my internet connection? to download program data from my wireless network?

My LAN is hard-wired, and I'd rather not make another CAT5 run to the Tivo. Now I'm using telephone to make the connection. But obviously I'd rather use broadband.

Thanks

Hi...

Quick question....Tivo makes a wireless internet adapter...

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7384314&st=tivo&lp=4&type=product&cp=1&id=1122654250546

I believe that was made for the S2...so you could watch shows all over your house. But...

Can I use that with my S3 as my internet connection? to download program data from my wireless network?

My LAN is hard-wired, and I'd rather not make another CAT5 run to the Tivo. Now I'm using telephone to make the connection. But obviously I'd rather use broadband.

Thanks

Yes - this is what the wireless adapter was originally for (before they introduced the multiroom viewing and home media option).

My only question about this item is whether it supports WPA encryption or if it is only WEP.

The Tivo does NOT have a firewire connection, but it has a couple of USB connections. It is safe to say that you will never be able to archive in HD off the box (other than POSSIBLY using Tivo2Go if/when it is enabled in the future). This might allow viewing in HD on a laptop, but it can't be sent back to the Tivo (as far as I know).

I'm more concerned with just getting it off the Tivo somehow. If that were done, I could either keep several external drives and plug the one I want back in, or if I could get it off that drive I could burn it to DVD to play back in my HD DVD player.

I'm more concerned with just getting it off the Tivo somehow. If that were done, I could either keep several external drives and plug the one I want back in, or if I could get it off that drive I could burn it to DVD to play back in my HD DVD player.

If Tivo allows the transfer of digital material off the Tivo, it will include DRM of some sort, and I doubt that you will be able to burn it to an HDDVD (especially content from premium channels).

The Tivo2go feature requires that you play back items on a particular computer if I remember right. (There is a media access key assigned to the content that you transfer).

Happened to me last night. I was recording survivor and all of a sudden it went black screen on me. To make sure it wasnt just my cable blanking out I went upstairs and the wife was watching it on the tv.

Has anyone gone to play a recording and found a black screen instead? I noticed today that when my S3 went to record the "recap" Gray's Anatomy episode at 8:00, and I went to look at live television (what should have been Gray's Anatomy), and it was just a black screen. I forced the Tivo to switch channels (and end the recording), and I then flipped back, and the picture/sound were back. If I hadn't been paying attention (actually if my wife wasn't paying attention), I might have missed this recording.

The trouble here is that I don't know if the show just came back on its own, or if the channel change fixed the problem. I wonder if the Tivo changes to the channel at just the right moment (maybe when the picture switches from a commercial to the full widescreen HD show), it can't sync, and all you get is a black screen.

On the other hand, the digital channel could have been off the air and came back while I was trying a different channel (the analog channel).

I am worried now about missed recordings because the digital channel might have glitches (this does happen around here every once in a while). I don't even have the analog "big 4" network channels in my "Channels you receive" list so it will always record the HD channel when using season passes.

If anyone else sees something like this happen please let us know here!

Yeah, why would you "hate" something that is so easily disabled? There are so many great features of the TiVo, but there's always a feature or two that some folks don't care for. "Hate" is such a strong word... :rolleyes:
I guess "greatly disappointed in" would have been a better phrase. I was hoping it would actually find things I was interested in.

I have the FIOS DVR now and the only complaints I have is recording space and it doesn't let you pause one tuner and watch the other like my HD250 did. I will probably get the S3 just because of those 2 things.

I guess "greatly disappointed in" would have been a better phrase. I was hoping it would actually find things I was interested in.

I have the FIOS DVR now and the only complaints I have is recording space and it doesn't let you pause one tuner and watch the other like my HD250 did. I will probably get the S3 just because of those 2 things.

If you use the 'thumbs' the program will learn what you like and dislike and will make better decisions on what to 'suggest'

Happened to me last night. I was recording survivor and all of a sudden it went black screen on me. To make sure it wasnt just my cable blanking out I went upstairs and the wife was watching it on the tv.

So you were watching a digital channel, and it went blank in the middle of the program? Did it come back after a while?

:D So you were watching a digital channel, and it went blank in the middle of the program? Did it come back after a while?


It came back only when I canceled the recording. So I can't figure this one out. I also don't understand why when I am watching tv and then bring up the guide and flipping up or down on the guide it has audio dropouts and the picture freezes in synch with the audio dropouts. Never had this problem with any of my other moto dvr's. I am just worried that if I am recording stuff and I am looking at the guide to look for other stuff to record that when I get these dropouts is it affecting my recording as well. If so this tivo is going back.

P.S. I only watch the channels that are HD. This tivo is for my home theater and HD is the only thing allowed in there. :D

P.S. I only watch the channels that are HD. This tivo is for my home theater and HD is the only thing allowed in there. :D

Nice!!! :D

Another factor to consider is how much programming are you being required to purchase in order to get the cable DVR. I only want the local HD, which comes with a Limited Basic subscription, but I have to pay another $35-40 a month for channels I don't want before Comcast will rent me their DVR.I am in the same boat...I pay $12/month for cable and for that I get all the HD locals, which I can tune using the built-in QAM tuner in my TV (no cable box). I suspect we aren't alone, and that there is a large group of consumers who are interested in the S3 precisely because they want to record HD without having to upgrade their cable subscription. Which begs the question: why didn't TiVo include manual channel mapping of unencrypted QAM channels on the S3? The S3 has been delayed for years...they had plenty of time to add what should have been a trivially simple feature.

I have a worrisome suspicion. TiVo is trying to foster a cozy relationship with the cable industry (see their recent TV Week ad for the S3 making a "customer loyalty" / "churn reduction" argument direct to cable execs in pointing out the lack of satellite support in the S3, and their recent business deals to bring the TiVo interface to cable STBs). TiVo wants to be a partner with cable, not a competitor. I believe they are reluctant to add features to the S3 that directly hurt cable companies financially, and manual channel mapping would mean that customers would not have to buy "official" HDTV support from their cable co which entails a digital tier, an HD tier, a cablecard rental, etc.

I'm worried that we will never see manual channel mapping of unencrypted QAM channels on the S3. I won't buy an S3 without this feature, and I know I'm not alone. Perhaps if we make our voices heard, we can overcome TiVo's reluctance to upset big cable too much.

pretty much everyone is saying the tivo s3 outputs a better picture than the sony dhg. i thought the sony had very good processing and components. were the comparisons via component or HDMI?
i have a lifetime subscription on an s1 as well as a dhg-500. i am trying to justify a switch to the s3... right now the biggest things holding me back are TivoToGo support and video inputs. i was hoping i could get rid of my s2 completely...

I am in the same boat...I pay $12/month for cable and for that I get all the HD locals, which I can tune using the built-in QAM tuner in my TV (no cable box). I suspect we aren't alone, and that there is a large group of consumers who are interested in the S3 precisely because they want to record HD without having to upgrade their cable subscription. Which begs the question: why didn't TiVo include manual channel mapping of unencrypted QAM channels on the S3? The S3 has been delayed for years...they had plenty of time to add what should have been a trivially simple feature.

I have a worrisome suspicion. TiVo is trying to foster a cozy relationship with the cable industry (see their recent TV Week ad for the S3 making a "customer loyalty" / "churn reduction" argument direct to cable execs in pointing out the lack of satellite support in the S3, and their recent business deals to bring the TiVo interface to cable STBs). TiVo wants to be a partner with cable, not a competitor. I believe they are reluctant to add features to the S3 that directly hurt cable companies financially, and manual channel mapping would mean that customers would not have to buy "official" HDTV support from their cable co which entails a digital tier, an HD tier, a cablecard rental, etc.

I'm worried that we will never see manual channel mapping of unencrypted QAM channels on the S3. I won't buy an S3 without this feature, and I know I'm not alone. Perhaps if we make our voices heard, we can overcome TiVo's reluctance to upset big cable too much.

The channel mapping does work on the S3 to the degree that it's mapped to the PSIP channel number, at least for the OTA HD equivalent channels in my market.

For example, our CBS station broadcasts OTA on UHF channel 29, but it's channel 5.1 in the PG, for both OTA and the cable fed signal. The problem is there is no guide info for the cable fed signal, it just says digital service I believe.

If the cable company is passing along the PSIP along with the signal they get from the station(which apparently they are doing, at least here anyways) then I wouldn't think it would be to hard for the TiVo to apply the guide data for the OTA equivalent to the remapped cable fed channel. If this could be done, than a CableCARD wouldn't even be needed for the local channels. Cable channel of course would still require it as they are all over the place, Discovery-HD is buried on ch 76.4 for example, and some cable systems move these channels around on a regular basis so guide info would be difficult. But for cable fed OTA stations it shouldn't be too big a deal. The problem may be in whether or not the particular cable system is passing on the PSIP info, some may not do so.

You're right about the cable/TiVo relationship though, and it will probably in fact result in some limited abilities on the S3, it already has.

The channel mapping does work on the S3 to the degree that it's mapped to the PSIP channel number, at least for the OTA HD equivalent channels in my market.

For example, our CBS station broadcasts OTA on UHF channel 29, but it's channel 5.1 in the PG, for both OTA and the cable fed signal. The problem is there is no guide info for the cable fed signal, it just says digital service I believe.

If the cable company is passing along the PSIP along with the signal they get from the station(which apparently they are doing, at least here anyways) then I wouldn't think it would be to hard for the TiVo to apply the guide data for the OTA equivalent to the remapped cable fed channel. If this could be done, than a CableCARD wouldn't even be needed for the local channels. Cable channel of course would still require it as they are all over the place, Discovery-HD is buried on ch 76.4 for example, and some cable systems move these channels around on a regular basis so guide info would be difficult. But for cable fed OTA stations it shouldn't be too big a deal. The problem may be in whether or not the particular cable system is passing on the PSIP info, some may not do so.

You're right about the cable/TiVo relationship though, and it will probably in fact result in some limited abilities on the S3, it already has.That's the problem I'm having. I can't find the where our cable co. (Mediacom) is placing the cable version of the HD locals (except for our PBS station). I even plugged in our cable company's digital listings in an online TV listing (Yahoo, I think) and tried those channels, but they're in the 700s, and, while I can manually plug those in on the S3, there's nothing there. It's not a huge problem for me, though, since I can get all of them OTA without having to move my antenna. But it would be nice to find them.

Frankly, you get what you pay for.

The Tivo is expensive. So is a Rolex.

The Tivo, so far as we've seen, is the best at what it does. Picture quality, interface, THX certification, name it. Tivo is the world standard in DVR.

The Rolex may not be the best, but it is quality. It's tough. It takes abuse and keeps working. It doesn't leak underwater. Rolex is the world standard in watches.

The same argument applies. "Why would I buy a $10,000 Rolex when I can get a $100 Casio?"

If that's the logic that makes you tick (sorry) then follow it. But if you want the best...and having the best is more important than having a bargain, get the Tivo.

Or the Rolex.my priorities are changing :) bought a S3 to try out from CC so could easily return if needed. so far alot like the hdtivo just faster and a couple ohter features, native passthrough and network hookup is nice.

HD PQ is same as hd tivo on component and hdmi.

Would sell one or both of my rolexes to get the new panny 65" 1080P plasma.

I'm more concerned with just getting it off the Tivo somehow. If that were done, I could either keep several external drives and plug the one I want back in, or if I could get it off that drive I could burn it to DVD to play back in my HD DVD player.This isn't a Tivo-based solution, but here's what I'm doing. I'm keeping my non-DVR Moto cable box with its firewire connection, as well as getting the S3. I've got the cable box hooked up to an old PC via firewire that I use to capture anything that I want to keep. For stuff that I'm just time-shifting, I'll use the Tivo. This isn't a great or easy solution, but since I don't keep all that much, it works for me.

And, while I'm here, I'm another one of those who only has a limited cable package and wasn't willing to increase myself to enhanced basic in order to get the cable company's DVR. So the S3 will pay for itself in a couple years.

That's the problem I'm having. I can't find the where our cable co. (Mediacom) is placing the cable version of the HD locals (except for our PBS station). I even plugged in our cable company's digital listings in an online TV listing (Yahoo, I think) and tried those channels, but they're in the 700s, and, while I can manually plug those in on the S3, there's nothing there. It's not a huge problem for me, though, since I can get all of them OTA without having to move my antenna. But it would be nice to find them.You won't find them in the 700's, they will be QAM tuning channels like 75.2, 75.4, 79.3, etc. Keep looking online; there are local newsgroups out there with QAM mappings posted. I use hdtv.forsandiego.com. Also, I read somewhere that TiVo will pick up the raw QAM channels if you simply do a channel scan?

The channel mapping does work on the S3 to the degree that it's mapped to the PSIP channel number, at least for the OTA HD equivalent channels in my market.
OTA ATSC is one thing, QAM is another. The S3 apparently does not pick up PSIP data for QAM channel mapping. Without that or manual channel mapping, you can't get guide information for QAM channels.

Edit: Sorry, I think I am misunderstanding your post. Are you saying that the S3 does recognize PSIP data in the QAM channel which maps it to the ATSC (OTA) equivalent channel number? And that the guide works fine as long as you use the OTA channel number? Now that's interesting...I thought that the S3 ignored the PSIP data for QAM.

You won't find them in the 700's, they will be QAM tuning channels like 75.2, 75.4, 79.3, etc. Keep looking online; there are local newsgroups out there with QAM mappings posted. I use hdtv.forsandiego.com. Also, I read somewhere that TiVo will pick up the raw QAM channels if you simply do a channel scan?

I assume the TiVo can find the QAM subchannels but there is no guide info available. Can't you remap to a channel that has the same guide info? i.e., I get WTICDT here in CT on QAM 89.1. The TVGOS on my Sony HDD's has a WTICDT listing with some Digital Cable assigned number like 203; I just remap to 89.1 and the listings are correct going forward.

I assume the TiVo can find the QAM subchannels but there is no guide info available. Can't you remap to a channel that has the same guide info? i.e., I get WTICDT here in CT on QAM 89.1. The TVGOS on my Sony HDD's has a WTICDT listing with some Digital Cable assigned number like 203; I just remap to 89.1 and the listings are correct going forward.That's the heart of the matter...on the S3 you can manually tune to a QAM frequency channel (like 89.1), but without a cablecard there's no way to map those to the corresponding guide channel (like 702). So all the guide functionality is broken. A sorely missing feature in the S3.

That's the problem I'm having. I can't find the where our cable co. (Mediacom) is placing the cable version of the HD locals (except for our PBS station). I even plugged in our cable company's digital listings in an online TV listing (Yahoo, I think) and tried those channels, but they're in the 700s, and, while I can manually plug those in on the S3, there's nothing there. It's not a huge problem for me, though, since I can get all of them OTA without having to move my antenna. But it would be nice to find them.
It seems your cableco is not re-mapping then from their RF locations. They could be at RF 114.x or 117.x, for example, almost anywhere.

Do you get any channel numbers that look like the above? You could have,

117.1
117.2
117.3
117.4

anything that looks like that?

I'm not sure the S3 can tune by cable RF channel. I know mine picks up a PBS station on ch 96 which also happens to be the RF channel, but I don't recall seeing any others before I put the CCs in.

OTA ATSC is one thing, QAM is another. The S3 apparently does not pick up PSIP data for QAM channel mapping. Without that or manual channel mapping, you can't get guide information for QAM channels.

Edit: Sorry, I think I am misunderstanding your post. Are you saying that the S3 does recognize PSIP data in the QAM channel which maps it to the ATSC (OTA) equivalent channel number? And that the guide works fine as long as you use the OTA channel number? Now that's interesting...I thought that the S3 ignored the PSIP data for QAM.
Yes, to the edit. I suppose it depends on the cable system, but here in Santa Rosa Comcast appears to be passing on the PSIP mapping with the local channels, there's just no guide data.

It will show in the guide as the same channel number as the OTA equivalent. It will designate by "ant" or "cbl" in the info banner. There is no guide info, but it would be the same as the listing for the OTA station, as long as the OTA station is actually sending the program information itself, not all do. You could set up recurring recordings manually, but then they'd be hard to designate in the list, and it would certainly be cumbersome.

You won't find them in the 700's, they will be QAM tuning channels like 75.2, 75.4, 79.3, etc. Keep looking online; there are local newsgroups out there with QAM mappings posted. I use hdtv.forsandiego.com. Also, I read somewhere that TiVo will pick up the raw QAM channels if you simply do a channel scan?
Cable channel mappings can change all the time. The location for Kxxx for example could be 75.2 one day and then a week later be 84.6. At least Comcast does that up here, not positive anywhere else, so the reliability factor isn't very high, especially if you're setting up recording by the RF channel number.

That's the heart of the matter...on the S3 you can manually tune to a QAM frequency channel (like 89.1), but without a cablecard there's no way to map those to the corresponding guide channel (like 702). So all the guide functionality is broken. A sorely missing feature in the S3.
I agree, if that function was there I wouldn't even need, or want, the CableCARDS.

My S3 has NOT found my local QAM channels, and I rescanned last night. So it's hunt and search (or find it online somewhere). If they change that often, then what's the friggin' point?

It seems your cableco is not re-mapping then from their RF locations. They could be at RF 114.x or 117.x, for example, almost anywhere.

Do you get any channel numbers that look like the above? You could have,

117.1
117.2
117.3
117.4

anything that looks like that?

I'm not sure the S3 can tune by cable RF channel. I know mine picks up a PBS station on ch 96 which also happens to be the RF channel, but I don't recall seeing any others before I put the CCs in.
Oh heck yes. When I scanned, it had nearly 300 channels, but nearly all of them are music or blank. I manually checked each one of them.

Oh heck yes. When I scanned, it had nearly 300 channels, but nearly all of them are music or blank. I manually checked each one of them.
And there was no local HD anywhere? It has to be there somewhere, pretty sure anyhow. I haven't played with the S3 sans CCs for almost a week now so my memory of what I got is a little hazy.

And there was no local HD anywhere? It has to be there somewhere, pretty sure anyhow. I haven't played with the S3 sans CCs for almost a week now so my memory of what I got is a little hazy.Oh, yeah, there were the OTA HD channels. That's why I say it's not a huge deal for me. I just couldn't find the QAM cable equivalents (except for the PBS station).

There might be a filter on your cable line that is blocking those channels, depending on where they are in the bandwidth.

Logically, the guide data is available for clear QAM rebroadcast of OTA. All they would have to do is add the function allowing you to specify which QAM RF channel and sub-channel correspond to which OTA channel and sub-channel. Tivo doesn't use PSIP anyway, so I don't know why that is even brought up in this discussion.

However, the problem remains that the cable company can change the QAM RF channel on a whim. Without the CableCARD, the box wouldn't know and you could very easily miss recordings.

Edit: should have said "PSIP for guide data anyway" I can see that PSIP would be good for channel mapping, but the dismal guide data in PSIP is not sufficient for Tivo's use.

- Mike

Logically, the guide data is available for clear QAM rebroadcast of OTA. All they would have to do is add the function allowing you to specify which QAM RF channel and sub-channel correspond to which OTA channel and sub-channel. Tivo doesn't use PSIP anyway, so I don't know why that is even brought up in this discussion.

However, the problem remains that the cable company can change the QAM RF channel on a whim. Without the CableCARD, the box wouldn't know and you could very easily miss recordings.

- Mike

I tried to do a channel scan before I got my cablecards, and it did find channels for my local HD feeds (it even assigned them to their correct locations: 3-1, 8-1, and 13-1). There has to be some info like PSIP data for the Tivo to know what channel numbers these should be assigned to. My trouble was that the channels were blank (no picture or sound). I am not sure why they weren't showing picture, since I am certain that they are broadcast in the clear (my other QAM tuners show the picture).

I never did get a picture until I got the cablecards installed.

If you didn't get picture and sound, were you able to verify that the RF channel was the same as your other QAM tuners?

- Mike

I wonder if I would disconnect my antenna, then rescan, if the QAM remap of my OTA HD channels would show up exactly where the OTA channels are? The puzzling thing about that is it originally found the PBS QAM remap, but it's exactly the same channel (24-2) as the OTA HD channel....hmmm....

So it's hunt and search (or find it online somewhere). If they change that often, then what's the friggin' point?Well, each cable operator is different, but I can tell you that mine has changed them about once a year in the past. I'd be happy to have to update 2 or 3 channel mappings once a year, instead of paying my cable op for digital tier+HD tier+cablecard every month. Manual channel mapping isn't perfect, and it's not for the technically-challenged, but it should still be there. It is in other products.

If you didn't get picture and sound, were you able to verify that the RF channel was the same as your other QAM tuners?

- Mike

I assume this question was directed at me...

I am not aware of a way to see what RF channel had been assigned to the "normal" channel numbers (3-1 for example).

Oh, yeah, there were the OTA HD channels. That's why I say it's not a huge deal for me. I just couldn't find the QAM cable equivalents (except for the PBS station).
They're there somewhere. Does your cableco encrypt local HD channels? Some do and some don't, there seems to be a differing of opinions whether it's "legal" or not. Comcast doesn't.

Edit: should have said "PSIP for guide data anyway" I can see that PSIP would be good for channel mapping, but the dismal guide data in PSIP is not sufficient for Tivo's use.

- Mike
That's the problem, it seems the cablecos are stripping the guide data from any PSIP info that the station is passing along. The channel mapping is getting through, but the program info is not.

I'm new to Tivo and just getting used to my S3. I find the channel changes extremely slow. I mean, when "surfing", a channel change can take as much as a couple seconds. I'm a high speed surfer and could easily scan 4 channels in that time. I know the Tivo wasn't designed for surfing, but figured I'd mention it to see if it's normal.

Also, I have not installed my cablecards (yet) and have cable and antenna hooked up. I've played with unchecking the channels in the channel list but when surfing, I still get every channel which at the least includes duplicates of teh antenna and cable of the locals. I tried clearing all my channels and starting over but it didn't seem to work. When it scans if finds a couple hundred channels, most of which have nothing on them. I can see where I can delete them but that process is a one at a time tedious affair. Finally, in my list of antenna channels, I get a ton that aren't actually in my area. Well, not very close anyway. I tried going through the whole reslection of the guide data the rechecked but the odd channels are still there.


Short of a RTFM, which I plan to so soon :), is there a procedure to get my channels all fixed up so I only see what I use/want when I and pressing channelup channeldn?

Remember the Series3 includes two different guide choices. Press Enter from the guide to change.I'm new to Tivo and just getting used to my S3. I find the channel changes extremely slow. I mean, when "surfing", a channel change can take as much as a couple seconds. I'm a high speed surfer and could easily scan 4 channels in that time. I know the Tivo wasn't designed for surfing, but figured I'd mention it to see if it's normal.Did you set the Series3 video output to native or fixed?

Keep in mind that many televisions take 1-2 seconds to sync to a resolution change, so using native will add 1-2 seconds to channel changing times on those displays when switching between SD and HD channels, or between 720p and 1080i HD channels. Setting the Series3 to 720p fixed or 1080i fixed would eliminate this resolution sync time on your TV, but may not be optimal, particularly for a 1080p HDTV with a good built-in scaler.

It's possible that not having a CableCard adds some delay to the changing on QAM channels too, I don't know.

Short of a RTFM, which I plan to so soon , is there a procedure to get my channels all fixed up so I only see what I use/want when I and pressing channelup channeldn?Once you get the CableCard installed, all those QAM channels will be remapped to their appropriate channel numbers with guide data.

. I can see where I can delete them but that process is a one at a time tedious affair.
Other Tivos let you select or deselect all channels at once; hopefully, this capability will be added with the software update coming in November.

Note it takes a few hours for the Tivo to index all the guide data that it downloads.

I never put mine into standby mode. I just don't see the point. The hard drive keeps running (to the best of my knowledge - it still records scheduled programs).

My S2 has been running non-stop (even connected to a UPS for the last 9 months) for about the same amount of time as scsiraid's. It only turns off when our power goes out for more than a half hour or so (and the UPS power runs out).Ha, my series I has been running continously, except for moving things about and power failues, since I unpacked it.

YMMV

Did you set the Series3 video output to native or fixed?Native. I don't need (want) the Tivo to do my scaling or deinterlacing. It's feeding a Lumagen HDP scaler via HDMI which feeds a Infocus 777 Projector via DVI at constant 720p (projector never resyncs). The Lumagen will sync on a resolution change almost instantly, it's one of the main reasons I bought it. It's the Tivo with the delay, not the display.

I'm new to Tivo and just getting used to my S3. I find the channel changes extremely slow. I mean, when "surfing", a channel change can take as much as a couple seconds. I'm a high speed surfer and could easily scan 4 channels in that time. I know the Tivo wasn't designed for surfing, but figured I'd mention it to see if it's normal.


OUCH! Not what I wanted to hear. I just got my S3 for FIOS and I've loved the very quick channel changes of the Motorola FIOS box. If this thing is that slow, I'm sending it back. Quick channel changes really make the viewing experience much more fun. I don't have the cable cards yet, so I can't say from my own experience.

I'm new to Tivo and just getting used to my S3. I find the channel changes extremely slow. I mean, when "surfing", a channel change can take as much as a couple seconds...."...extremely slow"???
My S3 changes channels much quicker than that; about one second. And so what if it takes two seconds. Whatever happened to patience?

Well so far not so good. As I said I don't yet have the cable cards, but I set up the Tivo without it for now. Presently, hooked up to FIOS, the unit is just receiving analog channels. I'm not sure why it's not picking up any of the digital HD broadcast channels, but it's not. It's only receiving FIOS channels 1-50.

The thing that I'm really concerned about is it looks like GetGray is absolutely right, the channel changes are ABSURDLY slow. I'm timing each channel change at about 5-6 seconds! I'm hoping this is a function of not having the cable card, but there's no way I'll keep it if that's the rule. With the FIOS PVR, channel changes are about 1 second and the quickest I've ever experienced since I went HD years ago.

The other thing I was mildly disappointed about is that there is still a delay when watching "live" TV. I put a FIOS box on in another room tuned to the same channel, and there is about a 1 second delay. I don't know why this situation persists since the FIOS PVRs do not have this delay and are exactly in step with my FIOS non-PVRs.

I guess I'll see what happens when I have the cable cards installed, but thus far I'm disappointed.

Just finished watching several programs I recorded this week. Played with channel changes a lot. Paid more attention this time. Press the channel button, the "info" screen comes up, the infor populates and the channel appears. From button press to channel appearing, minimum 2 seconds every time. The Info screen is on during this entire time. It's data changes, and teh video behind it changes, but at the speed described. Definately *not* related to any external resync issues.

Another issue I saw earlier this week. In the settings I changes it so it showed the channel "banner"? quickly. It showed it so quickly it was impossible to read. Why show it at all then? The option shoudl be banner off, and normal. Then of course, don't have it blink up for a unusable time.

Tomorrow I will try the channel changing timing to the "quick" and see if it will change any faster. Still, should be off, not quick. IMHO.

On recorded material I have clearly, visible, and annoying lipsync delay. Saw it particularly bad on "Shark". Anyone else seeing this?

I'm getting about 3-4 secs max on channel changes and that's running native res output w/CCs. Haven't seen any lip-sync issues, watched at least 20 hrs of programming so far and haven't had a single issue, in fact this is the thing that impresses me the most, the playback has been flawless, something my Moto 6412 doesn't seem to be capable of, at least once or twice a night there would be a video or audio glitch with the Moto, haven't seen any of that with S3.

The thing that I'm really concerned about is it looks like GetGray is absolutely right, the channel changes are ABSURDLY slow. I'm timing each channel change at about 5-6 seconds! I'm hoping this is a function of not having the cable card, but there's no way I'll keep it if that's the rule. With the FIOS PVR, channel changes are about 1 second and the quickest I've ever experienced since I went HD years ago.
There is some added delay when switching between analog channels because they must be encoded to digital first. The other channels on FiOS are already digital and tune faster. Even so, your quoted 5-6 seconds sounds high to me.

I have all the analog channels removed from my guide.

The other thing I was mildly disappointed about is that there is still a delay when watching "live" TV. I put a FIOS box on in another room tuned to the same channel, and there is about a 1 second delay. I don't know why this situation persists since the FIOS PVRs do not have this delay and are exactly in step with my FIOS non-PVRs.
No Motorola box exists with faster processing hardware than the Series3. The Series3 will not tune channels quite as fast as other boxes because of the way Tivo handles buffers to provide a more seamless PVR experience. However, you should not see a wide disparity when changing digital channels.

Note the differences in the way the Tivo and MSFE software handle buffers. For example, the 30 minute buffer is always accessible on the Tivo, regardless of which tuner you are on. Also, when you tune to a channel you are currently recording, you have access to all of the program recorded so far, and can rewind or skip to the beginning -- you don't get that on the FiOS box.

I notice the Series3 also performs its video processing in the 4:4:4 domain with 4:4:4 output, while a number of the Motorola boxes process and output at 4:2:2. I don't know if that contributes to the delay or not. I wonder if it might increase processing time for those using a dedicated scaler?

That said, I'm not sure why you would channel surf when you can record all your favorite programs.

On recorded material I have clearly, visible, and annoying lipsync delay. Saw it particularly bad on "Shark". Anyone else seeing this?
If you are seeing lipsync, it is due to an unusually long video processing time on your display or processor, or a problem at your cable company.

I would still suggest comparing the fixed 720p feed of the S3 without your video processor to the native feed with your video processor, just to verify where the problem lies. I think you may be surprised at the result.

On recorded material I have clearly, visible, and annoying lipsync delay. Saw it particularly bad on "Shark". Anyone else seeing this?
That's likely a network or local issue, not the TiVo. There are few if any sync reports in TCF where most S3 owners are posting.

I run fixed, component, no CCs, analog cable and OTA HD and channel change is one second max.

I'm running:

-Native
-Twin CC's
-HDMI
-Digital Cable plus OTA HD

My channel changes are about 1 sec...if I stay w/i a format. Like, going from INHD1 to INHD2 to Discovery HD to HBO-HD.
If the Tivo has to shift formats...HBO-HD to Comedy... then it's about 2 sec maybe 3.

No Motorola box exists with faster processing hardware than the Series3. The Series3 will not tune channels quite as fast as other boxes because of the way Tivo handles buffers to provide a more seamless PVR experience. However, you should not see a wide disparity when changing digital channels. I have them both right now, both hooked up and functioning. I can A/B between them. My Cable signal is so hot the cable company added an attenuator, so no signal problems there. My OTA signals are at 96 to 98% on the S3 signal meter.

The Motorola, (which I despise overall due to it's annoying lockups), changes channels instantly, no delay at all; that is when going from HD to HD, SD to SD.

If you are seeing lipsync, it is due to an unusually long video processing time on your display or processor, or a problem at your cable company.Recording was OTA so network issue, maybe. I will try the same show on the S3 and Moto to see. As for video processing, the sync issue was Video coming before audio. Audio lagging. Thus not a video processing issue. I'll experiment some more to determine the details. And take them up at the Tivo forum.

I notice the Series3 also performs its video processing in the 4:4:4 domain with 4:4:4 output, while a number of the Motorola boxes process and output at 4:2:2.


Forgive my ignorance, but what does this mean? Can you explain this a bit more?

Thanks!

I didn't know either....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling


Learn something every day!

I'm getting about 3-4 secs max on channel changes and that's running native res output w/CCs. Haven't seen any lip-sync issues, watched at least 20 hrs of programming so far and haven't had a single issue.


Exact same for me.... except with cablecards.

No Motorola box exists with faster processing hardware than the Series3. The Series3 will not tune channels quite as fast as other boxes because of the way Tivo handles buffers to provide a more seamless PVR experience. However, you should not see a wide disparity when changing digital channels.

Note the differences in the way the Tivo and MSFE software handle buffers. For example, the 30 minute buffer is always accessible on the Tivo, regardless of which tuner you are on. Also, when you tune to a channel you are currently recording, you have access to all of the program recorded so far, and can rewind or skip to the beginning -- you don't get that on the FiOS box.



bfdtv, I rescanned the Tivo to allow for OTA channels which I haven't used since my D* box. I did notice that when changing OTA HD channels the changes were quicker...probably about 2 seconds. This still was a bit slower than the Motorola box, but not too bad. As far as channel surfing goes, there are many times I just happen to come on to a program that looks interesting that I might not have watched had I not been surfing. I will always be a channel surfer.

The other thing I noticed that was very interesting was the issue of picture quality. I've always used the Motorola FIOS box via HDMI. Using the Tivo and comparing the OTA channels to the HD broadcast channels on the Motorola box, there was no difference in PQ. That says a couple of things, first the new Tivo does indeed have better PQ than the old D* Tivo (a point that always bothered me) and second, it shows that the FIOS broadcast channels are coming in every bit as good as a direct OTA channel. That's something I never saw with D*.

Have you tried comparing the picture on the HD digital channels via the new Tivo with the FIOS Motorola box? I should be able to do that next week, but I'm curious what you've found thus far.

Exact same for me.... except with cablecards.
Mine is with CCs as well, and I should add that most of the delay is due to re-sync'ing when channels change resolution since I'm running native output.

I love that native output, being able to have my VP30 do the heavy-lifting of deinterlacing/scaling(if needed) is really, really nice.

I have NEVER seen this happen before...

I was watching a recorded program on my HDD250 a few minutes ago, and it stopped playing the program, and switched to CSPAN2, which was showing some sort of emergency broadcast (white text superimposed over the program that was airing on CSPAN2). There is a tornado warning in a neighboring county.

I have NEVER seen this happen before! It switched back to the channel that the DVR had been tuned to previously, but didn't go back to the recorded show I was watching.

I figured that I would switch over to my new Series 3 Tivo and check the weather report - they had broken into the football game on my ABC affiliate. I noticed that it wasn't recording a program that was set to record at 6:00 pm. I went to the recording history for the Tivo, and it said it wasn't recorded because the tuner wasn't available. As I was in the menus checking this, the Tivo did EXACTLY the same thing that the Sony had just done a few moments earlier (went to CSPAN2). I switched to the show that should be recording, and started a manual record. It is now doing this emergency thing every 5 minutes or so. The recording stopped when it did it again, but it does go back to the correct channel after the alerts.

My cablecard equipped TV is doing the same thing.

I purchased the TiVo Series 3 and the cable company installed the two CableCARDs a few hours ago.

I have been watching Matrix Reloaded on TNT-HD and Cops on Fox HD. Every few minutes, the screen will go black for a few seconds and then return to the show. The audio goes out too when this happens. I have tried pressing the Info button while it is black, but it does not display until the picture comes back.

I have switched over to the second tuner and the same thing happens.

This happens while watching live TV. If I rewind after the picture comes back, the playback reflects the blackout too. I have not recorded anything yet to verify if this happens during a recording.

Is anyone else experiencing this? Any idea if the problem is with the TiVo or the CableCARDs? Time Warner is my cable company.

EDIT: There is sound during the blackouts. Just no picture.

I purchased the TiVo Series 3 and the cable company installed the two CableCARDs a few hours ago.

I have been watching Matrix Reloaded on TNT-HD and Cops on Fox HD. Every few minutes, the screen will go black for a few seconds and then return to the show. The audio goes out too when this happens. I have tried pressing the Info button while it is black, but it does not display until the picture comes back.

I have switched over to the second tuner and the same thing happens.

This happens while watching live TV. If I rewind after the picture comes back, the playback reflects the blackout too. I have not recorded anything yet to verify if this happens during a recording.

Is anyone else experiencing this? Any idea if the problem is with the TiVo or the CableCARDs? Time Warner is my cable company.

Is the interval of the blackouts 'regular' (same amount of time between blanks and same amount of blank time) or are they random?

Side question.... did your 'Cops' have audio? My S3 recording of the two Cops shows at 8 and 8:30 on FoxHD had no sound.

Side question.... did your 'Cops' have audio? My S3 recording of the two Cops shows at 8 and 8:30 on FoxHD had no sound.

My recording of the 8:00 showing of Cops had sound.

Is the interval of the blackouts 'regular' (same amount of time between blanks and same amount of blank time) or are they random?

Side question.... did your 'Cops' have audio? My S3 recording of the two Cops shows at 8 and 8:30 on FoxHD had no sound.

The blackouts are random. It seems as if they are not happening as often now.

Cops had audio. I mistakenly said earlier that there was no sound during the blackout times. That was incorrect. There is sound during these 1-5 second blackouts.

The blackouts are random. It seems as if they are not happening as often now.

Cops had audio. I mistakenly said earlier that there was no sound during the blackout times. That was incorrect. There is sound during these 1-5 second blackouts.

Interesting.... So it is on the recording... random....

Does it do it on any other channel??

Copy Never flags?
Signal levels? - Tighten coax's - Eliminate splitters

It could be caused by a too strong signal (if using an amp, try removing it?) or a too low signal (try a signal amplifier?).

I purchased the TiVo Series 3 and the cable company installed the two CableCARDs a few hours ago.

I have been watching Matrix Reloaded on TNT-HD and Cops on Fox HD. Every few minutes, the screen will go black for a few seconds and then return to the show. The audio goes out too when this happens. I have tried pressing the Info button while it is black, but it does not display until the picture comes back.

I have switched over to the second tuner and the same thing happens.

This happens while watching live TV. If I rewind after the picture comes back, the playback reflects the blackout too. I have not recorded anything yet to verify if this happens during a recording.

Is anyone else experiencing this? Any idea if the problem is with the TiVo or the CableCARDs? Time Warner is my cable company.

EDIT: There is sound during the blackouts. Just no picture.

Ive been having the same blackouts. Never had this happen with my moto dvr's. Screen goes black and no sound and only way to get it back is for me to turn channels and then back to it. Also had same thing happen durring recordings. I hope tivo can figure this out. I have been using cablecards for over a year and never had a problem with my tv cablecard either. I am on comcast. I think it is a hardware issue with tivo.

Ive been having the same blackouts. Never had this happen with my moto dvr's. Screen goes black and no sound and only way to get it back is for me to turn channels and then back to it. Also had same thing happen durring recordings. I hope tivo can figure this out. I have been using cablecards for over a year and never had a problem with my tv cablecard either. I am on comcast. I think it is a hardware issue with tivo.Uhoh, hope this isn't a fly in the soup. If you haven't I'd recommend asking Tivo directly and posting on the Tivo Community forum where the Tivo guys apparantly watch.

Ive been having the same blackouts. Never had this happen with my moto dvr's. Screen goes black and no sound and only way to get it back is for me to turn channels and then back to it. Also had same thing happen durring recordings. I hope tivo can figure this out. I have been using cablecards for over a year and never had a problem with my tv cablecard either. I am on comcast. I think it is a hardware issue with tivo.

I don't have to change channels to get the picture back, and the sound remains intact during the picture blackout.

Yes - this is what the wireless adapter was originally for (before they introduced the multiroom viewing and home media option).

My only question about this item is whether it supports WPA encryption or if it is only WEP.

The TiVO adapter only supports WEP right now. An alternative is to pick up a wireless bridge (sometimes called game adapters or game bridges) designed for PS2/XBox/etc.. You configure the bridge to join your wireless network using WPA, and connect the bridge to the TiVO using an Ethernet cable. This setup is also faster than using a wireless adapter, at least on Series 2 TiVOs.

I have a US Robotics 5430 bridge on my S2, and a D-Link DWL G820 on the S3, and both work great and allow me to use the TiVOs with my WPA-encrypted network.

Jeff

Ive been having the same blackouts. Never had this happen with my moto dvr's. Screen goes black and no sound and only way to get it back is for me to turn channels and then back to it. Also had same thing happen durring recordings. I hope tivo can figure this out. I have been using cablecards for over a year and never had a problem with my tv cablecard either. I am on comcast. I think it is a hardware issue with tivo.

In the Channels section of the TiVO's settings menu, there's a Signal Strength-Cable utilit that will let you know how strong your cable signal is on digital channels. I've not noticed any dropouts or blackouts on any HD shows (I've my S3 since Tuesday). The TiVO reports my signal strings between 97 and 100.

FWIW... the dropouts could be something else entirely.

Jeff

Can I pop the CableCard out of my 4696 and use it in the S3?

Can I pop the CableCard out of my 4696 and use it in the S3?

Not without having it re-paired to the S3 by the cable company.

Not sure who is getting this deal, but I got a card in the mail from Ultimate Electronics advertising the S3, and 15% off any one store item. I used it today on an S3 for $120 off to $679 ($733 with tax). Expires 9/30. Now on to battle with COX cable for my cable cards :).

Ypu won't be the first here in Phoenix, others have had no problems getting cable cards. Just be sure to tell them you need 2 on the same unit. Then maybe the tech will bring more in order to get 2 working correctly. Also, make sure they don't bill you for 2 digital gateways, etc.

Mrs. "optivity" read my post on another thread where I mentioned that I was chomping at the bit to buy a TiVo Series 3... she didn't seem too happy.

I purchased the TiVo Series 3 and the cable company installed the two CableCARDs a few hours ago.

I have been watching Matrix Reloaded on TNT-HD and Cops on Fox HD. Every few minutes, the screen will go black for a few seconds and then return to the show. The audio goes out too when this happens. I have tried pressing the Info button while it is black, but it does not display until the picture comes back.

I have switched over to the second tuner and the same thing happens.

This happens while watching live TV. If I rewind after the picture comes back, the playback reflects the blackout too. I have not recorded anything yet to verify if this happens during a recording.

Is anyone else experiencing this? Any idea if the problem is with the TiVo or the CableCARDs? Time Warner is my cable company.

EDIT: There is sound during the blackouts. Just no picture.

I think I may have found the cause of the blackouts. I purchased a Psyclone Source Selector to allow me to switch between multiple component and digital optical inputs. It accepts up four component cable devices and acts as a switch with one output. I bought this specifically to accomodate my new TiVo. I removed the Psyclone Source Selector from the setup and connected my TiVo directly to my receiver and have not seen any more video blackouts.

So it appears to be the Psyclone Source Selector device that is faulty, or the other component cable that I removed, which was the component cable that came with my TiVo Series 3. I am currently using a Monster Cable component cable. This should not be too hard to troubleshoot from here.

What doesn't make sense is that the Psyclone Source Selector, or even the component cable, is part of the output from the TiVo instead of before it. The only explanation that I can think of, besides a faulty device/cable, is that the Psyclone Source Selector could not handle the video that was coming out of the TiVo, resulting in the blackouts. This is just a theory at this point.

I will post the final results after I finish troubleshooting the issue.

mzupan

Thanks. Please keep us posted since this seemed to be a serious bug and a possible deal break.

Sergio

I think I may have found the cause of the blackouts. I purchased a Psyclone Source Selector to allow me to switch between multiple component and digital optical inputs. It accepts up four component cable devices and acts as a switch with one output. I bought this specifically to accomodate my new TiVo. I removed the Psyclone Source Selector from the setup and connected my TiVo directly to my receiver and have not seen any more video blackouts.

So it appears to be the Psyclone Source Selector device that is faulty, or the other component cable that I removed, which was the component cable that came with my TiVo Series 3. I am currently using a Monster Cable component cable. This should not be too hard to troubleshoot from here.

What doesn't make sense is that the Psyclone Source Selector, or even the component cable, is part of the output from the TiVo instead of before it. The only explanation that I can think of, besides a faulty device/cable, is that the Psyclone Source Selector could not handle the video that was coming out of the TiVo, resulting in the blackouts. This is just a theory at this point.

I will post the final results after I finish troubleshooting the issue.

It is definately the Psyclone Source Selector that is causing this problem. When I hooked my TiVo back up to the Psyclone Source Selector, the video blackouts started happening within a minute or two and happened regularly. I removed the Psyclone Source Selector from the setup again and the blackouts stop, regardless of which component cable I use.

I really want a component switch box, so I may try a replacement Psyclone Source Selector.

Hopefully documenting this experience will help out someone else if they have the same problem.

mzupan,

Good to see your issue was resolved.

I think the Tivo may output HD over component at 4:4:4, while most boxes do lesser 4:2:2. Still, intuitively, that should cause quality degradation on a component switcher with inadequate bandwidth, not those blackouts as you describe.

It might be worth asking on Tivocommunity what component HD switchers others are using with success.

anyone else notice the Tivo Community Forum is down???

anyone else notice the Tivo Community Forum is down???

Yup.... and Im in withdrawl..... I need my FIX.....

:D

Yup.... and Im in withdrawl..... I need my FIX.....

:DIt's back up now :)

From the look of the posting times, it was down from around midnight (CDT) until about 8:30 this morning.

The interface is all I hear about with this unit. I'm not implying that everyone is just trying to find reasons for justifying the purchase of the box; however, I can't imagine that an interface is worth $800.I agree. My wife disagrees. It's a personal thing.

Reliability? With regards to what? I haven't had one issue with my 8300HD in the year or more I've had it.I can give you an example (and this is something my wife is using to pressure me to agree to getting the S3): The software on the Motorola DVRs has bugs related to the types of schedule changes that the networks are doing these days -- moving shows around by one or two minutes, to try to cause conflicts on DVRs. TiVo handles that very nicely, and even will clip a show to fit things together as best as it can. The Motorola DVR gets totally messed up. If you schedule a recording, and then the schedule changes by even just one minute, you end up with a scheduled recording, often for SOMETHING ELSE, that you CANNOT REMOVE. This week, it got so messed up that it will not let me record both Criminal Minds and Lost on Wednesday. It simply says both are conflicts with each other, and will not let me put one on one tuner and one on the other tuner.

Is it worth $800? I don't think so. However, my wife feels differently.

If Tivo allows the transfer of digital material off the Tivo, it will include DRM of some sort, and I doubt that you will be able to burn it to an HDDVDThat's correct. Just about every feature TiVo wants to add has to be scrutinized carefully to ensure that it cannot be exploited to give folks the ability to copy and view the HD content elsewhere, in its native quality.

TiVo wants to be a partner with cable, not a competitor.Without a doubt, but that's a good thing, not a bad thing. If they were to present themselves as a competitor to cable, their customers would get a heck of a lot more hassles about adopting TiVo. The complexities now are mostly associated with the fact that the technologies are relatively new to the cable industry staffers in the field. Just imagine if those staffers suddenly have a strong incentive to not only be ignorant but unhelpful as well.

I'm worried that we will never see manual channel mapping of unencrypted QAM channels on the S3. I won't buy an S3 without this feature, and I know I'm not alone. Perhaps if we make our voices heard, we can overcome TiVo's reluctance to upset big cable too much.Go ahead and knock yourself out, but don't get your hopes up. There are comparatively few people in the same boat as you are, and many people who are looking at the TiVo as the world's best cable DVR. (If you thought I said "all" please re-read the sentence again.)

For you TCF'ers....they're down again...
Hello...

Sorry...but we have a memory chip issue that is making an issue. Memory will be replaced but we need to close until then.

Thank You.

What is the likelihood that the eSATA port will eventually be enabled? The word over at tivocommunity.com is mixed at best.

What is the likelihood that the eSATA port will eventually be enabled? The word over at tivocommunity.com is mixed at best.

It's up to Cable Labs

What is the likelihood that the eSATA port will eventually be enabled? The word over at tivocommunity.com is mixed at best.

I'd expect it to be supported eventually, as long as you can 'Key' the recordings to the drive (i.e. can't hook the drive up to another S3 and play existing recordings) good enough that it's considered secure. Same with TTG and MRV, they want good enough DRM in place that you won't easily be able to mass distribute it.

That said, I'm not sure how critical it is. A number of people have already upgraded to larger internal drives, and there's a company that's even selling upgraded S3's.

I guess if you want 1.5TB you'd want to upgrade both the internal and slap on an eSATA drive.

CCourtney

Whatever happened to "copy once" protection?

In the Channels section of the TiVO's settings menu, there's a Signal Strength-Cable utilit that will let you know how strong your cable signal is on digital channels. I've not noticed any dropouts or blackouts on any HD shows (I've my S3 since Tuesday). The TiVO reports my signal strings between 97 and 100.

FWIW... the dropouts could be something else entirely.

Jeff

Jeff, are you using 2 cablecards?

BTW, what's the assessment thus far on picture quality? I'm really interested in only those that have had their prior PVR hooked up via HDMI and the S3 hooked up the same way. I'd like to remove the variability of comparing one unit via component with another via HDMI.

BTW, what's the assessment thus far on picture quality? I'm really interested in only those that have had their prior PVR hooked up via HDMI and the S3 hooked up the same way. I'd like to remove the variability of comparing one unit via component with another via HDMI.

In my opinion, The S3 looks better than the SA8300HD with both using HDMI.

Jeff, are you using 2 cablecards?

Yes.

Is it worth $800? I don't think so. However, my wife feels differently.

HA! I could only DREAM of having that problem. :p

Whatever happened to "copy once" protection?

5C flags still exists. Part of the reason why they require HDDs to be key'd to Digital Cable DVRs.

CCourtney

After 2 visits and 6+ hrs working with the charter techs, their cable cards do work with tivo series 3. As the second tech showed up and kept telling me "our cards do not work with the tivo", I told them I have spoked with tivo and yes they do. Got tivo on the phone as well as his supervisor, and when they follow the instructions, low and behold they do work. THey must only insert and configure 1 card at a time, and if they do not work after they activate them, have them test the signal strength. I now have wonderful(by charters standards) digital cable and HD(OTA much better) signals on my tivo series 3.

I currently have Comcast, and understand that to get a full interactive guide, I would have to connect a digital set top box to the TiVo. Has anyone done this, and how does it work with using the iGuide, On Demand, and other features? If such a box is connected, do I need cablecards?

I currently have Comcast, and understand that to get a full interactive guide, I would have to connect a digital set top box to the TiVo. Has anyone done this, and how does it work with using the iGuide, On Demand, and other features? If such a box is connected, do I need cablecards?

Would you need another guide in addition to TiVo's own guide? Maybe I'm not following you here...

-Randy

I currently have Comcast, and understand that to get a full interactive guide, I would have to connect a digital set top box to the TiVo. Has anyone done this, and how does it work with using the iGuide, On Demand, and other features? If such a box is connected, do I need cablecards?
Tivo uses its own interface and delivers programming information to its boxes using the Internet. There is no way for Tivo or anyone else to obtain the program information sent by your cable company, so third-parties like Tivo must provide the guide data themselves.

As I understand it, the use of CableCard in the Tivo Series 3 means that I won't be able to use PPV or OnDemand and any other features requiring two-way communications with the cable company.

Will the Tivo guide show these channels anyway?
Or does the Tivo guide know not to show channels that I won't be able to use?

Thanks in advance for your help!

I think by "interactive guide", geodon005 is asking about VoD and PPV. To get those services, you could just keep your existing cable box and run its output to a dedicated input on your TV. Then run TiVo to a different input on your TV. Switch to the TiVo (with its own guide) for your normal TV viewing and timeshifting, and switch to the cable box only for VoD and PPV. Yes your TiVo would still need CableCards (assuming you have digital cable).

As I understand it, the use of CableCard in the Tivo Series 3 means that I won't be able to use PPV or OnDemand and any other features requiring two-way communications with the cable company.

Will the Tivo guide show these channels anyway?
Or does the Tivo guide know not to show channels that I won't be able to use?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Tivo might show them but you can go into the channels menu and uncheck them to remove them from the guide. Once you get all set up you probably should take the time to go thru the channels list and turn off things you dont like or dont get just to help the search times.

I got a linup change message yesterday for a new channel. The channel turned out to be an on demand channel which obviously wont work with Tivo. I simply turned it off in the channels menu.

I think by "interactive guide", geodon005 is asking about VoD and PPV. To get those services, you could just keep your existing cable box and run its output to a dedicated input on your TV. Then run TiVo to a different input on your TV. Switch to the TiVo (with its own guide) for your normal TV viewing and timeshifting, and switch to the cable box only for VoD and PPV. Yes your TiVo would still need CableCards (assuming you have digital cable).

Wouldn't it just be easier and less expensive (than keeping two DVRs) to just call the cable company? I believe we can do this in our area....... call and order a VOD or PPV item.

After 2 visits and 6+ hrs working with the charter techs, their cable cards do work with tivo series 3. As the second tech showed up and kept telling me "our cards do not work with the tivo", I told them I have spoked with tivo and yes they do. Got tivo on the phone as well as his supervisor, and when they follow the instructions, low and behold they do work. THey must only insert and configure 1 card at a time, and if they do not work after they activate them, have them test the signal strength. I now have wonderful(by charters standards) digital cable and HD(OTA much better) signals on my tivo series 3.

Hey, J. Oliver, where are you located? I'm on Charter in Tennessee and I'm considering dumping their Moxi for the S3. But it seems like you had to go through a lot to get it working--and that might not be worth it for me. I shudder to think that I may be the first person in Knoxville to have the cablecards set up through the tivo.

OK, had the S3 for two weeks now...

Lovin' this machine!

Works perfectly. I haven't had any dropped shows, blackouts, lost audio, nolo.

BUT...with the new season upon us...I have almost filled up the HDD! 27 shows in HD! Most of them an hour....Yikes!

Please Tivo...give us expansion!

To paraphrase Reagan: "Mr. Tivo...open up this SATA!"

lol

I maintain, if TIVO gave us a machine with 4 Tera-bytes, we would fill it up!

In my earlier post, I guess I was confused about what kind of guide,
if any, the new TiVo uses. I am familiar with TiVo, having owned the
DirecTV HD TiVo, but got tired of HD-lite from D*. Can someone who
has the new TiVo compare how accurate the TiVo's guide information is
compared to Comcast's iGuide? And, if possible how about a screenshot?

To respond to an earlier post, I really don't care all that much
about On Demand or PPV, and don't really want to have two boxes. I
just want to know if the TiVo guide will provide everything I need to
know about what's on at the time from Comcast, and also, if it is
faster than the dog-slow response time of the DirecTV HD TiVo.

Thanks for your responses!

Don

In my earlier post, I guess I was confused about what kind of guide,
if any, the new TiVo uses. I am familiar with TiVo, having owned the
DirecTV HD TiVo, but got tired of HD-lite from D*. Can someone who
has the new TiVo compare how accurate the TiVo's guide information is
compared to Comcast's iGuide? And, if possible how about a screenshot?
Tivo offers more comprehensive guide information than Comcast. The 14-days of guide information is downloaded from Tivo's Internet server using your Internet connection (if you have a network); if you don't have Internet access or a wireless network, then the alternative is to connect the Tivo to a phone line, where the box periodically will dial a local ISP (which Tivo pays for) to download the guide.

With the Series3, you have two choices for guide display, shown below:

http://www.tivolovers.com.nyud.net:8080/Photos/Series3-Review/Small/Guide-1.jpg (http://www.tivolovers.com.nyud.net:8080/Photos/Series3-Review/Medium/Guide-1.jpg) http://www.tivolovers.com.nyud.net:8080/Photos/Series3-Review/Small/Guide-2.jpg (http://www.tivolovers.com.nyud.net:8080/Photos/Series3-Review/Medium/Guide-2.jpg)

Of course, you get Tivo Central and the Now Playing screen regardless of the guide you choose:

http://www.tivolovers.com.nyud.net:8080/Photos/Series3-Review/Small/TiVo-Central-1.jpg (http://www.tivolovers.com.nyud.net:8080/Photos/Series3-Review/Medium/TiVo-Central-1.jpg) http://www.tivolovers.com.nyud.net:8080/Photos/Series3-Review/Small/Now-Playing-List-1.jpg (http://www.tivolovers.com.nyud.net:8080/Photos/Series3-Review/Medium/Now-Playing-List-1.jpg)

bfdtv, is this from your cable system since these don't look like FIOS HD channel locations?

Tivo offers more comprehensive guide information than Comcast. The 14-days of guide information is downloaded from Tivo's Internet server using your Internet connection (if you have a network); if you don't have Internet access or a wireless network, then the alternative is to connect the Tivo to a phone line, where the box periodically will dial a local ISP (which Tivo pays for) to download the guide.

With the Series3, you have two choices for guide display, shown below:

http://www.tivolovers.com.nyud.net:8080/Photos/Series3-Review/Small/Guide-1.jpg (http://www.tivolovers.com.nyud.net:8080/Photos/Series3-Review/Medium/Guide-1.jpg) http://www.tivolovers.com.nyud.net:8080/Photos/Series3-Review/Small/Guide-2.jpg (http://www.tivolovers.com.nyud.net:8080/Photos/Series3-Review/Medium/Guide-2.jpg)

Of course, you get Tivo Central and the Now Playing screen regardless of the guide you choose:

http://www.tivolovers.com.nyud.net:8080/Photos/Series3-Review/Small/TiVo-Central-1.jpg (http://www.tivolovers.com.nyud.net:8080/Photos/Series3-Review/Medium/TiVo-Central-1.jpg) http://www.tivolovers.com.nyud.net:8080/Photos/Series3-Review/Small/Now-Playing-List-1.jpg (http://www.tivolovers.com.nyud.net:8080/Photos/Series3-Review/Medium/Now-Playing-List-1.jpg)

I'm really close to buying my first Tivo.

Regarding the guide picture on the top right. Is it faster than the DirecTV HR 10-250 guide? I remember playing with that unit and couldn't help but notice that navigating through that guide was agonizingly slow.

Dawn

I'm really close to buying my first Tivo.

Regarding the guide picture on the top right. Is it faster than the DirecTV HR 10-250 guide? I remember playing with that unit and couldn't help but notice that navigating through that guide was agonizingly slow.

Dawn

In my opinion, the "grid guide" that you are referring to on the upper right has always been a bit too slow for my taste. I actually prefer the Tivo "live guide" on the upper left. It is faster to navigate, and it shows you what is currently on at a glance (on the left side), and shows you what is on for about 6 hours in the future on the right as you highlight each channel on the left side.

Does anyone know why with the TiVo guide and the grid guide both, there is not a icon or some sort to indicate that the program is scheduled to be recorded? This has always drove me nuts with the HR10-250 and now the S3. With both the Dish 622 and the Comcast 6412, when perusing the guide they use a little icon to indicate a scheduled recording. Even my old Samsung 160 would have an indicator that the program had a reminder to change to that channel at the scheduled time.

The TiVo method of having to go through the menus to see what is scheduled to record seems very cumbersome when compared to just looking at the guide and seeing it right there.

the guide is faster than the guide in the hr10-250 yes. (3.5f software) do not have the 6.3a yet which is supposed to help with speed issues on the hd tivos.

+1 +1 +1 keenan.

really annoying they couldn't do something like place an R or a circle/red dot or how about a check mark like ther season passes. my replay had it and the dish 721 pvr did it. sure tivo could they just don't???

like watching a prerecorded show and pulling guide up will make it go to a live channel,,,,why??

and a time remaining notation, even if it has to say APPROX xx hours hd or xxx hours sd.
guess with new programs added every day it would be to much changing and confusion.

comon tivo give us those simple things.

Does anyone know why with the TiVo guide and the grid guide both, there is not a icon or some sort to indicate that the program is scheduled to be recorded? This has always drove me nuts with the HR10-250 and now the S3. With both the Dish 622 and the Comcast 6412, when perusing the guide they use a little icon to indicate a scheduled recording. Even my old Samsung 160 would have an indicator that the program had a reminder to change to that channel at the scheduled time.

The TiVo method of having to go through the menus to see what is scheduled to record seems very cumbersome when compared to just looking at the guide and seeing it right there.

Handy shortcut:

Press "2" from the Tivo menu to go straight to the "To Do" list. So from live TV, press the Tivo button, and then "2" to get to the programs to be recorded list.

Does anyone know why with the TiVo guide and the grid guide both, there is not a icon or some sort to indicate that the program is scheduled to be recorded? This has always drove me nuts with the HR10-250 and now the S3. With both the Dish 622 and the Comcast 6412, when perusing the guide they use a little icon to indicate a scheduled recording. Even my old Samsung 160 would have an indicator that the program had a reminder to change to that channel at the scheduled time.

The TiVo method of having to go through the menus to see what is scheduled to record seems very cumbersome when compared to just looking at the guide and seeing it right there.

Yes, so far this is the only thing I've run into that sucks, but it sucks big. It appears I'd have to resort to pencil and paper in order to see what's going to interfere with what with overlapping channel recordings. I mean if I get a message saying I have a conflict, it's difficult to see what it is, and where, and which part might get clipped. Scanning the channels I can't tell if I've got it set to record or not. Gotta doa research project to go to the other screen and see if I did it. Then back to the guide to see what else I might want, then back to see if I have it already, etc.
I'm amazed to find somethign I like better about the moto. Since I generally hate it :)

Everythign else, except for:
- speed switching channels
- quick removal of banner (worthless, just make it slow, or not at all. Lightning fast blink just annoys me)
is OK. So far.

Handy shortcut:

Press "2" from the Tivo menu to go straight to the "To Do" list. So from live TV, press the Tivo button, and then "2" to get to the programs to be recorded list.
Thanks, that helps.

I guess the TiVo software, or the way they get or display their guide data must not allow for an indicator otherwise the probably would have provided one already. IMO, it's a glaring omission from an otherwise excellent interface.

Yes, so far this is the only thing I've run into that sucks, but it sucks big. It appears I'd have to resort to pencil and paper in order to see what's going to interfere with what with overlapping channel recordings. I mean if I get a message saying I have a conflict, it's difficult to see what it is, and where, and which part might get clipped. Scanning the channels I can't tell if I've got it set to record or not. Gotta doa research project to go to the other screen and see if I did it. Then back to the guide to see what else I might want, then back to see if I have it already, etc.
I'm amazed to find somethign I like better about the moto. Since I generally hate it :)

Everythign else, except for:
- speed switching channels
- quick removal of banner (worthless, just make it slow, or not at all. Lightning fast blink just annoys me)
is OK. So far.
It does suck big time. I also love the way the Moto and Dish boxes do it. It's so much simpler, visual and easy to use.

It does suck big time. I also love the way the Moto and Dish boxes do it. It's so much simpler, visual and easy to use.

The 6412 had one other nice feature (for a grand total of two nice features buried in the steaming pile) -- it had a "day forward" and "day backward" button, which made it really easy to schedule shows such as The Daily Show and others which aren't well-suited to Season Passes due to the number of repeats and reshowings. You could navigate to 11:00 p.m. on Monday on Comedy Central, hit the Record button, and that day's show would light up with the "record" indicator in the guide. Press Day+ and you'd be at the same time and channel on Tuesday where you could press Record again, and so forth.

You could schedule 2.5 weeks of shows in less than 30 seconds like this. It was very slick.

But still, after a week and a half with the Series 3, it's been flawless and glitch-free. This is so very much the opposite of the 6412... :)

That's another one, I have not figured out a way to advance forward by the day, both the Moto, as you have noted, does it, and so does the Dish 622, yet the TiVo models do not.

Haven't these things bothered TiVo users in the past? I asked the question about the recording indicator at TiVo Community but never got a response, maybe I'll ask again.

That's another one, I have not figured out a way to advance forward by the day, both the Moto, as you have noted, does it, and so does the Dish 622, yet the TiVo models do not.

Haven't these things bothered TiVo users in the past? I asked the question about the recording indicator at TiVo Community but never got a response, maybe I'll ask again.

What I do with the TiVO is set up a season pass of repeats and first runs, and then go into the To-Do List and clear out the duplicates, which is a pretty quick operation (just move down the list and press the Clear button on the unwanted shows). Unlike the Moto box, the TiVO remembers your deletions and won't ever add them back randomly.

What I do with the TiVO is set up a season pass of repeats and first runs, and then go into the To-Do List and clear out the duplicates, which is a pretty quick operation (just move down the list and press the Clear button on the unwanted shows). Unlike the Moto box, the TiVO remembers your deletions and won't ever add them back randomly.
I don't have a problem with setting up the recordings, it's not being able to see them in the guide, and not being able to skip ahead by the day to see what is on, I have to hold down the FWD button and the guide scrolls by, each 1/2 hour by each 1/2, that's way too many button presses just to get to the same time period the next day. It's one button press with the Moto and the Dish 622/942.

That's another one, I have not figured out a way to advance forward by the day, both the Moto, as you have noted, does it, and so does the Dish 622, yet the TiVo models do not.

Haven't these things bothered TiVo users in the past? I asked the question about the recording indicator at TiVo Community but never got a response, maybe I'll ask again.I've been a TiVo user for nearly three years now, and, no they don't bother me (and apparently longer TiVo users). I've never seen a complaint about it filed in TCF in three years of reading and posting. But the reason for that is the fluid way TiVo handles Season Passes. There's really no reason to do so. If you know what shows you're interested in, set up an SP and let it do the work. Most TiVo users couldn't even tell you when their favorite shows are on because it doesn't matter to them. The SPs pick them up whenever they're on. Regular TiVo users don't think much in terms of what's-on-when. It strikes them as a time-centric, live-tv model where as Tivo is a name/content, time independant, always recorded model.
What I do with the TiVO is set up a season pass of repeats and first runs, and then go into the To-Do List and clear out the duplicates, which is a pretty quick operation (just move down the list and press the Clear button on the unwanted shows). Unlike the Moto box, the TiVO remembers your deletions and won't ever add them back randomly.
Why do you set up and SP to catch first run AND repeats, then go through it to clear out duplicates? That doesn't make sense to me.

I understand that some of you here in this thread are brand new TiVo users, so a lot of the S3's functionality is a learning experience (but not unique to the S3; it's been around in previous iterations). I would suggest spending a lot more time in the TiVo Community Forums; that's where I learned MUCH more about TiVo than anywhere else.

Why do you set up and SP to catch first run AND repeats, then go through it to clear out duplicates? That doesn't make sense to me.

I only do this for some TiVO-unfriendly shows like Daily Show, South Park, Countdown With Keith Olbermann, etc.. These shows don't seem to work well with a season pass either because of bad guide data or too many repeats. If there's a better way to do it for these shows, I'd love to know about it.

Jeff

I only do this for some TiVO-unfriendly shows like Daily Show, South Park, Countdown With Keith Olbermann, etc.. These shows don't seem to work well with a season pass either because of bad guide data or too many repeats. If there's a better way to do it for these shows, I'd love to know about it.

JeffYeah, I could see where that would happen. I don't watch those types of shows, so I don't run in to that. I have about 20 SPs set up (which, I guess in the world of TiVo, isn't really that many - seems a lot to me!), and they all catch evrything I want.

Does the S3 support wireless networking?

I've been a TiVo user for nearly three years now, and, no they don't bother me (and apparently longer TiVo users). I've never seen a complaint about it filed in TCF in three years of reading and posting. But the reason for that is the fluid way TiVo handles Season Passes. There's really no reason to do so. If you know what shows you're interested in, set up an SP and let it do the work. Most TiVo users couldn't even tell you when their favorite shows are on because it doesn't matter to them. The SPs pick them up whenever they're on. Regular TiVo users don't think much in terms of what's-on-when. It strikes them as a time-centric, live-tv model where as Tivo is a name/content, time independant, always recorded model.


I see your point. I guess it's because it's the start of the new TV season and I'm still juggling which shows to record as the nets add them to the schedule. To be able to have a visual of any conflicts as I'm selecting the shows to be recorded makes that process much easier.

The skip ahead in the guide is nice for when you find out about something you'd like to record days before it airs. The Info-Guide date trick works, but it would be just easier to have a faster way without having to go into a menu to do it.

Does the S3 support wireless networking?

Yes but you need to make sure to get a supported usb wireless network adapter. This can be tricky since some versions of an adapter work and some don't. Check this link: http://www.tivo.com/adapters/

That's another one, I have not figured out a way to advance forward by the day, both the Moto, as you have noted, does it, and so does the Dish 622, yet the TiVo models do not.

Haven't these things bothered TiVo users in the past? I asked the question about the recording indicator at TiVo Community but never got a response, maybe I'll ask again.

Keenan, I seem to recall (but haven't tried) that the channel down button while in the guide, advances the guide 12 hours. I'm not sure if I have the right button, but I'll try it when I get a chance. It's not quite as good as a full day advance with one button push, but it is close.

I've been a TiVo user for nearly three years now, and, no they don't bother me (and apparently longer TiVo users). I've never seen a complaint about it filed in TCF in three years of reading and posting. But the reason for that is the fluid way TiVo handles Season Passes. There's really no reason to do so. If you know what shows you're interested in, set up an SP and let it do the work. Most TiVo users couldn't even tell you when their favorite shows are on because it doesn't matter to them. The SPs pick them up whenever they're on. Regular TiVo users don't think much in terms of what's-on-when. It strikes them as a time-centric, live-tv model where as Tivo is a name/content, time independant, always recorded model.



Although I own an S3, I disagree with that logic. There are many users that simply want to channel surf or see what's on tomorrow and do it quickly. I don't think this has anything to do with season passes and such. There are times there is just something on tomorrow that's 'special' and you just want to check it out. I know most die-hard Tivo users have their own methodology and can't understand us 'cave dwellers' that like to cross over in to good old fashioned 'channel hopping', but we do exist. ;)

Although I own an S3, I disagree with that logic. There are many users that simply want to channel surf or see what's on tomorrow and do it quickly. I don't think this has anything to do with season passes and such. There are times there is just something on tomorrow that's 'special' and you just want to check it out. I know most die-hard Tivo users have their own methodology and can't understand us 'cave dwellers' that like to cross over in to good old fashioned 'channel hopping', but we do exist. ;)Here here.

I'll have to check the channel down thing.

The thing about these issues are that they would only improve on an already very nice interface. They would not take away anything, only make it better than it is and should not interfere with how "regular" TiVo users use their machines, and I'll bet once they see and use some of the things we're talking about they'll be glad they're there.

The record indicator is so simple and elegant, I just don't get why TiVo hasn't done it already. As I noted either here, or maybe it was at TiVoCom, even my non DVR Samsung 160 would have a reminder icon for programs set to change to that channel when viewing the guide.

I have to wonder if there is some disconnect, or not possible software-wise, as to why TiVo has not done this. Maybe the guide data is structured in a way that the info can't, or doesn't allow, any manipulation to include such an indicator. IOW, the guide info seems to be a completely different piece of software, separate from the recording software --a display only situation.

On a different subject, anyone using the Harmony 880 with the S3? I have looked at the threads at TiVoCom and RemoteCon and even a thread here about speeding up the response time, but none of the suggestions have worked. I emailed Harmony and they sent back their suggestion with a note to call if I need more help, which I plan to do as it didn't make any difference.

I was wondering though if anyone has been successful in getting the 880 to work as fast as the stock TiVo remote?

Although I own an S3, I disagree with that logic. There are many users that simply want to channel surf or see what's on tomorrow and do it quickly. I don't think this has anything to do with season passes and such. There are times there is just something on tomorrow that's 'special' and you just want to check it out. I know most die-hard Tivo users have their own methodology and can't understand us 'cave dwellers' that like to cross over in to good old fashioned 'channel hopping', but we do exist. ;)
You may disagree, but it's true. Channel surfing is a lost "art" among true (OK, maybe hardcore :)) TiVo users (and by true I mean those that use the unit to its full capabilities -- what it's designed for). There's no need to channel surf -- just search for the program, again using the TiVo the way it was designed. I guess some people might look for something interesting, but I do that online - rarely using TiVo. Then I use TiVo's search function to schedule it or set up a Season Pass. I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you're doing a lot of channel surfing, or advancing forward by a day or two in the guide, then you're not using the TiVo to its full capabilities. Just my opinion.

On a different subject, anyone using the Harmony 880 with the S3? I have looked at the threads at TiVoCom and RemoteCon and even a thread here about speeding up the response time, but none of the suggestions have worked. I emailed Harmony and they sent back their suggestion with a note to call if I need more help, which I plan to do as it didn't make any difference.

I was wondering though if anyone has been successful in getting the 880 to work as fast as the stock TiVo remote?

My 880 is slow too. I turned the delays down, but they haven't made much difference.

If you have any success, please post!

I doubt any universal remote will be as snappy as the peanut. Even with my S2 (before the dreaded 7.3.x software update), my Harmony wasn't as quick as the peanut.

how do i enter channel number like 55.2 (where to enter the 'dot'???) which is not included in the channel list during scan???

how do i enter channel number like 55.2 (where to enter the 'dot'???) which is not included in the channel list during scan???

It is the hypen on the Tivo (55-2). The advance key is the one with the hyphen (just above the "3" key).

how do i enter channel number like 55.2 (where to enter the 'dot'???) which is not included in the channel list during scan???Look on the S3 remote to the right and slightly below the "slow" button. You will find a button that has this on it -->|

You'll also see, in gray, just above that button and to the right this (-). That's what you punch in instead of the period for subchannels.

I doubt any universal remote will be as snappy as the peanut. Even with my S2 (before the dreaded 7.3.x software update), my Harmony wasn't as quick as the peanut.IR codes are IR codes. The Tivo has no way to know what device sent them. A properly programmed universal remote will be identical in behavior to the stock remote. Universals that are programmable, like my MX-850, or prontos, etc. will work identically if not better than stock remotes. But they can be programmed using the actual hex codes.

"learning" remotes on the other hand may not work as well. It all depends on how well they learn. In my experience, learning remotes learn more than they need to, thus send out more than necessary.

Look on the S3 remote to the right and slightly below the "slow" button. You will find a button that has this on it -->|

You'll also see, in gray, just above that button and to the right this (-). That's what you punch in instead of the period for subchannels.
I'm still learning my new Tivo3! :)

Why can't tivo3 tune to a channel that my sony dhghdd250 can??? :( i'm using no cablecard.

I'm still learning my new Tivo3! :)

Why can't tivo3 tune to a channel that my sony dhghdd250 can??? :( i'm using no cablecard.

You have to do a channel scan to let it find the digital cable channels that might be available. I think this is under the "channels" menu under "settings"

My 880 is slow too. I turned the delays down, but they haven't made much difference.

If you have any success, please post!
I will after I talk to Harmony, success or fail.

I've played with the delays every which way but it doesn't seem to make any difference either.

What I haven't tried is replacing the Harmony loaded commands with learned commands directly from the S3 remote, although I'm not confident that will make much difference.

The thing about these issues are that they would only improve on an already very nice interface. They would not take away anything, only make it better than it is and should not interfere with how "regular" TiVo users use their machines, and I'll bet once they see and use some of the things we're talking about they'll be glad they're there.

It's interesting (and annoying) that the few HD DVR manufacturers out there have not yet come up with the "perfect" set of features. Granted that each person uses a DVR in different ways and has somewhat different wants, but I'm talking about very basic features that could easily be built into every brand of DVR. Each company surely must be aware of the features on other brands. Someone ought to be able to combine the best features of the LG, the Sony, the Tivo and even the cableco boxes.

For example, the LG had a plethora of screen zooms and stretches that are lacking on the Sony and apparently on the Tivo (I don't have the Tivo). I often like to zoom in on SD upconverted material to eliminate the sidebars on my plasma.

I sometimes stop and start a recorded program frequently, like when checking on a baseball game. With the LG, all you had to do was hit the Play button to return to the recorded material, but the Sony requires you to maneuver through menus to restart the program. Very annoying. How does the Tivo do this?

The Sony allows you to set the live recording buffer to different lengths like 30, 60 or 90 minutes. The LG was sorely lacking here in many ways, and apparently the Tivo has a fixed 30 minute limit only.

The Sony has adjustable replay and advance times and adjustable smart cue at each FF speed (for going back a few seconds when stopping FF). The LG did not have this. Does theTivo?

The Moto boxes lack a large enough HDD, but the guide is quick and recordings never fail. But of course they have plenty of issues, too.

Obviously the Tivo has many great features not present in the earlier HD DVR's.

I could go on, but you get the idea. Surely someone can come up with the "perfect" DVR before too many more years go by!

Okay, here's the procedure for speeding up the Harmony remote, in my case an 880.

In the device column select "Troubleshooting" for the device in question and you should be presented with the following screens. Select the ones I've marked to proceed through the adjustment.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/Har1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/Har2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/Har3.jpg

At the below screen I found that the 880 was set at "3". I reset at "2" and updated. It was a bit quicker. I went back in and reset all the way to "0" and updated.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/Har4.jpg

It seems as fast as the S3 remote now, very quick in the menus and seems to be the same speed as the S3 in the guide, which is slow even with the S3 remote. Very happy with how the 880 works with the S3 now. At a minimum, it is at least as fast as the S3 remote.

One caveat, by lowering the repeat number, the "0-5", the tech said the S3 may not respond correctly to some inputs. So far, I have not seen any problem using the menus or the guide so I'm leaving it set at "0" for now.

Now I'm going to do the same for the HR10-250. :)

I have a S3. I've searched the forum and can't find mention of my problem. Hopefully someone here knows what is going on. I am using cable and outside antenna. The only HD content comes in on the antenna. The picture works great on all channels HD and standard. However, for some of the HD channels the sound drops out. The AVR indicates dolby digital signal and I can hear the sound if I turn the amp way up. Sound from the RCA inputs works fine. Also when I go to a standard channel the sound drops. The AVR is set to auto switch between AC3 and PCM. Any ideas what is going on? Thanks in advance.

I have a S3. I've searched the forum and can't find mention of my problem. Hopefully someone here knows what is going on. I am using cable and outside antenna. The only HD content comes in on the antenna. The picture works great on all channels HD and standard. However, for some of the HD channels the sound drops out. The AVR indicates dolby digital signal and I can hear the sound if I turn the amp way up. Sound from the RCA inputs works fine. Also when I go to a standard channel the sound drops. The AVR is set to auto switch between AC3 and PCM. Any ideas what is going on? Thanks in advance.
Tune to a channel that is dropping the sound and then go to the signal meter in the menus. Tivo>Messages and Settings>Settings>Channels>Signal Strength(for either Ant or Cable-whichever type of channel you tuned to).

See what the meter says, if it reads low-below 80 for example-that might be part of the problem.

You can also try the below forum. I haven't had any audio problems, but if anyone else has, it's probably being talked about there.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=51
TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs - TiVo Community

Update on the Harmony/S3 speed issue. The 880 literally rips through the menus now, very happy, and the "0" setting seems to be just fine. :)

Update on the Harmony/S3 speed issue. The 880 literally rips through the menus now, very happy, and the "0" setting seems to be just fine. :)

I'll give that a try...

You have to do a channel scan to let it find the digital cable channels that might be available. I think this is under the "channels" menu under "settings"
I did a channel scan and channel 4.1 is present, but when i tuned in, it says that channel not available!

My sony dhg250 can tune to 4.1 with no problem.

I did a channel scan and channel 4.1 is present, but when i tuned in, it says that channel not available!

My sony dhg250 can tune to 4.1 with no problem.

I see. I had similar issues before my cablecards were installed. I am afraid I don't have an answer on this one. My HDD250 tuned those channels correctly too.

Update on the Harmony/S3 speed issue. The 880 literally rips through the menus now, very happy, and the "0" setting seems to be just fine. :)That must be why I was wondering about the comments on the Harmony being sluggish with the S3 -- it was responding just fine for me, and, when I checked my settings, the repeats were already down to "1".

Update on the Harmony/S3 speed issue. The 880 literally rips through the menus now, very happy, and the "0" setting seems to be just fine. :)

I updated mine, and it really didn't seem to make much difference to me. Still sluggish.

I updated mine, and it really didn't seem to make much difference to me. Still sluggish.
Really? It made a world of difference with mine, it's still slow in the guide, but the S3 remote is slow there also, the guide is just slow period. In the menus the Harmony is just as fast as the S3.

Did you try both "0" and "1"?

Maybe a different model Harmony?

Sorry to hear it didn't help.

That must be why I was wondering about the comments on the Harmony being sluggish with the S3 -- it was responding just fine for me, and, when I checked my settings, the repeats were already down to "1".
"1" may have worked for me but as I noted I went all the way to "0" and haven't had any problems. The 880 works just like the S3 remote does. I'm definitely pleased.

I updated mine, and it really didn't seem to make much difference to me. Still sluggish.Have you adjusted your delays?

I see. I had similar issues before my cablecards were installed. I am afraid I don't have an answer on this one. My HDD250 tuned those channels correctly too.
and with tivo3, there is no way i can assign a channel number to a network.

You may disagree, but it's true. Channel surfing is a lost "art" among true (OK, maybe hardcore :)) TiVo users (and by true I mean those that use the unit to its full capabilities -- what it's designed for). There's no need to channel surf -- just search for the program, again using the TiVo the way it was designed. For me, TiVo Suggestions has replaced channel surfing.

I just got my S3, hopefully to replace my HR10-250, and despite rebooting and resetting up many times, I can only get one digital channel working: 5.1, Despite finding all the correct channels in the channel scan. Although the analog channels are working. While all the digital OTA channels currently work in all their HD glory on my HR10-250.
Should I replace the unit? I see other people are reporting similar OTA problems. Channels are working in other receivers while not on the S3. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I was really looking forward to this product!

Thanks,
Cap

I just got my S3, hopefully to replace my HR10-250, and despite rebooting and resetting up many times, I can only get one digital channel working: 5.1, Despite finding all the correct channels in the channel scan. Although the analog channels are working. While all the digital OTA channels currently work in all their HD glory on my HR10-250.
Should I replace the unit? I see other people are reporting similar OTA problems. Channels are working in other receivers while not on the S3. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I was really looking forward to this product!

Thanks,
Cap


What does the signal strength indicate? What kind of antenna? Is it aimed appropriately?

EDIT: Just realized it was OTA and not cablecard.

For all the channels that the HR10-250 give the S3's strength meter says it is 0 on both tuners- So if it is 0 then why did the scan pick it up?
My main point is that if the 250 could pick the channels so should the S3. Oddly the one channel that I can see (5.1 - Fox) the strength meter says it is 64 and the signal seems to be clear.

For all the channels that the HR10-250 give the S3's strength meter says it is 0 on both tuners- So if it is 0 then why did the scan pick it up?
My main point is that if the 250 could pick the channels so should the S3. Oddly the one channel that I can see (5.1 - Fox) the strength meter says it is 64 and the signal seems to be clear.

Are you certain that the antenna coax is plugged into the right connector (antenna instead of cable)? Should be in the top connector.

I just got my S3, hopefully to replace my HR10-250, and despite rebooting and resetting up many times, I can only get one digital channel working: 5.1, Despite finding all the correct channels in the channel scan. Although the analog channels are working. While all the digital OTA channels currently work in all their HD glory on my HR10-250.
Should I replace the unit? I see other people are reporting similar OTA problems. Channels are working in other receivers while not on the S3. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I was really looking forward to this product!


Well, I don't have an S3 (yet), but the HD DirecTiVo was very easilly overloaded on the ATSC OTA. I, and many others, had to add an attenuator.

Get the variable attenuator from Radio Shack and see if it helps (it's cheap, BTW.)

Oops. I just noticed you already have a HR10-250, so unless the S3 is even more sensitve to overload, that is probably not the problem.

Well, I don't have an S3 (yet), but the HD DirecTiVo was very easilly overloaded on the ATSC OTA. I, and many others, had to add an attenuator.

Get the variable attenuator from Radio Shack and see if it helps (it's cheap, BTW.)

Oops. I just noticed you already have a HR10-250, so unless the S3 is even more sensitve to overload, that is probably not the problem.

You could use a 4 way splitter for a quick test. -7.5 db....

I notice S3 is getting really HOT at rear exhaust fan, and it's well ventilated. Is it normal???

I notice S3 is getting really HOT at rear exhaust fan, and it's well ventilated. Is it normal???

What does the temp read in the system info screen?

What does the temp read in the system info screen?
67C

I have the unit in open rack!

just the clock is displayed??? why not the program names & channel number!

67C

I have the unit in open rack!


I'd say you've got a problem then. Does the fan appear to be running?

I'd say you've got a problem then. Does the fan appear to be running?I agree - mine runs mid to upper 40s.

I agree - mine runs mid to upper 40s.
Same here, 67C would seem to be too hot, that's about 150F.

On a different subject, anyone using the Harmony 880 with the S3? I have looked at the threads at TiVoCom and RemoteCon and even a thread here about speeding up the response time, but none of the suggestions have worked. I emailed Harmony and they sent back their suggestion with a note to call if I need more help, which I plan to do as it didn't make any difference.

I was wondering though if anyone has been successful in getting the 880 to work as fast as the stock TiVo remote?I don't know about the newer Harmony units, but I have the 659. What I have found is that no matter what you do, it will only register a new key press every 500ms or so. If you bang the key faster than that it will simply ignore it. That's SO MUCH slower than the Tivo Peanut remote that most people do notice it. It also affects my AirBoard IR keyboard emulation for my HTPC as well. I think Harmony support acknowledged this limitation to me a long time ago.

Basically, I have just become accustomed to the Harmony timing and "recalibrated" my finger to that speed. For those that don't know, this is important for activating double and triple fast-forward.

- Mike

I don't know about the newer Harmony units, but I have the 659. What I have found is that no matter what you do, it will only register a new key press every 500ms or so. If you bang the key faster than that it will simply ignore it. That's SO MUCH slower than the Tivo Peanut remote that most people do notice it. It also affects my AirBoard IR keyboard emulation for my HTPC as well. I think Harmony support acknowledged this limitation to me a long time ago.

Basically, I have just become accustomed to the Harmony timing and "recalibrated" my finger to that speed. For those that don't know, this is important for activating double and triple fast-forward.

- Mike
I fixed the speed problem, at least on my 880, see Post# 424. The 880 is just as fast as the S3 peanut now, might even be a little quicker in the guide, I'm very pleased with it.

Mine runs pretty cool and very quiet. I also had my 2 CCs installed today by FIOS and it's working great! This is quite a nice setup.

Same here, 67C would seem to be too hot, that's about 150F.
the fan's running i think.

67C

I have the unit in open rack!

I dont believe that is normal.... Mine is 47 degrees. Pehaps you have a heat sink missing? fan not running?

Not sure what they are measuring though... ambient air.. case temp of something or whether its a thermal diode on a chip die.

I dont believe that is normal.... Mine is 47 degrees. Pehaps you have a heat sink missing? fan not running?

Not sure what they are measuring though... ambient air.. case temp of something or whether its a thermal diode on a chip die.
It's the fan. It is not running at all! What's up with Tivo?!?! I'm taking the unit back to Best Buy!

Fans do experience a lot of infant mortality. It's not just a TiVo thing.

There are a lot of folks on TCF reporting two problems that trouble me a lot -- the missing blocks of channel problem, and the 0 minute recorded problem. We finally decided to buy a S3 after a lot of disagreement about it, and basically we weren't sure it would be worth the money, but were getting frustrated with the problems with the Motorola DVRs. Our S3 hasn't arrived yet, but we're hearing about these bugs in it that make me wonder if things are just going to get worse! How common are these bugs? Actually -- How many people aren't encountering them?

Is anyone concerned regarding the possibility that CATV providers will begin moving channels to a switched digital video (SDV) network-based system? My cable provider, Albany Time Warner has moved their HBO's west to SDV (IMO, no big loss) but if they continue to move channels to SDV it will make the S3 virtually useless.

Is anyone concerned regarding the possibility that CATV providers will begin moving channels to a switched digital video (SDV) network-based system? My cable provider, Albany Time Warner has moved their HBO's west to SDV (IMO, no big loss) but if they continue to move channels to SDV it will make the S3 virtually useless.

I think a lot of people are concerned about SDV. However, I dont believe it will come on that fast or that it will effect the 'popular' channels. I would expect all the music channels, shopping channels, and niche stuff to move to SDV which doesnt bother me in the least. If something I like moves, Ill just rent an SA8300HD and recored it there and enjoy Tivo goodness for everything else.

Sometimes we worry too much..... :)

There are a lot of folks on TCF reporting two problems that trouble me a lot -- the missing blocks of channel problem, and the 0 minute recorded problem. We finally decided to buy a S3 after a lot of disagreement about it, and basically we weren't sure it would be worth the money, but were getting frustrated with the problems with the Motorola DVRs. Our S3 hasn't arrived yet, but we're hearing about these bugs in it that make me wonder if things are just going to get worse! How common are these bugs? Actually -- How many people aren't encountering them?

Remember that forums are usually where you hear all the BAD stuff... not the good. Once someone gets their stuff fixed... they tend to disappear and enjoy their toy. My S3 is running great with only the audio dropout problem which Tivo seems to be working on (per supervisor at Tivo). If you look at the TCF closely you will see a period where folks in austin were screaming... that has calmed down... then it was Manhattan... that has also calmed down and even an Manhattan tech is now on the forum and contributing.

Is anyone concerned regarding the possibility that CATV providers will begin moving channels to a switched digital video (SDV) network-based system? My cable provider, Albany Time Warner has moved their HBO's west to SDV (IMO, no big loss) but if they continue to move channels to SDV it will make the S3 virtually useless.

Follow up.... The S3 will never be useless.... It is a great OTA DVR. If things really go south.... You can always sell it on ebay and get a Series 4 :)

There are a lot of folks on TCF reporting two problems that trouble me a lot -- the missing blocks of channel problem, and the 0 minute recorded problem. We finally decided to buy a S3 after a lot of disagreement about it, and basically we weren't sure it would be worth the money, but were getting frustrated with the problems with the Motorola DVRs. Our S3 hasn't arrived yet, but we're hearing about these bugs in it that make me wonder if things are just going to get worse! How common are these bugs? Actually -- How many people aren't encountering them?

Good points... you should really stick with proven technology: VCR and basic cable... :p

A strange thing happened last night - I could not receive Showtime HD (Comcast, Indianapolis) as the TiVO tried to record Weeds. All the other non-HD Showtime channels came in fine, and all the other HD movie channels came in fine. I wonder if it was a Showtime problem? A Comcast/Indy problem? A cable card problem?

I got "Dexter" on Sho-HD Sunday night with no problems.

Fans do experience a lot of infant mortality. It's not just a TiVo thing.
should I just crack open the box & replace the fan???

Is anyone concerned regarding the possibility that CATV providers will begin moving channels to a switched digital video (SDV) network-based system? My cable provider, Albany Time Warner has moved their HBO's west to SDV (IMO, no big loss) but if they continue to move channels to SDV it will make the S3 virtually useless.
In many markets, Verizon FiOS will soon be an option -- FiOS has no plans to do any SDV for the forseeable future.

If your TWC starts doing more SDV, switch to FiOS and save yourself $30/mo.

Fans do experience a lot of infant mortality. It's not just a TiVo thing.
just opened the box & discover that the fan cable NOT EVEN PLUGGED IN!!! WTH!!!

I hope nothing has been COOKED!

should I just crack open the box & replace the fan???I would not since that will void the warranty (should anything else happen to it). I'd get the entire thing replaced. And I would to it sooner rather than later. It's like an overheating car; YOU DON'T DRIVE IT!

Remember that forums are usually where you hear all the BAD stuff... not the good. Once someone gets their stuff fixed... they tend to disappear and enjoy their toy. My S3 is running great with only the audio dropout problem which Tivo seems to be working on (per supervisor at Tivo). If you look at the TCF closely you will see a period where folks in austin were screaming... that has calmed down... then it was Manhattan... that has also calmed down and even an Manhattan tech is now on the forum and contributing.I agree; my S3 has been great over the three weeks I've had it. I've only had one minor guide data problem (which is a Tribune Media Services issue and not TiVo). Other than that, I love it. The tuner is much more sensitive than the Sammy SIR-T151 I had, and the PQ is amazing.

I would not since that will void the warranty (should anything else happen to it). I'd get the entire thing replaced. And I would to it sooner rather than later. It's like an overheating car; YOU DON'T DRIVE IT!
It's the UNPLUGGED FAN

I wonder how many S3 with unplugged fans are out there?!?

temp is about 41-46C now ;)

I've had mine since 9-14(?) and it's worked fine, no problems at all so far. The only "problem" was the slow response with the Harmony remote, but that has been fixed.

should I just crack open the box & replace the fan???

Why would you do that??? You don't know what damage or shortened life expectancy has occurred while the thing was running without a fan. Just swap it out, you certainly have a good reason.

It's the UNPLUGGED FAN

I wonder how many S3 with unplugged fans are out there?!?

temp is about 41-46C now ;)I've seen others in the TCF posting about loose cables, plugs, etc., that they found after cracking the box. Glad it was a "simple" fix!

just opened the box & discover that the fan cable NOT EVEN PLUGGED IN!!! WTH!!!

I hope nothing has been COOKED!

If it were me, I wouldn't worry... 67C is hot enough for performance degradation but not hot enough to do permanent damage IMO. It's actually a little reassuring that it didn't get any hotter with the fan unplugged.

Has anyone noticed that their power plug does not really seat firmly in the back of the unit?

* Action Alert - Don't Let Cable Companies Ratchet Up
Restrictions!

Thanks to Hollywood and your cable provider, you'll face
"digital rights management" (DRM) restrictions on your TiVo
and other devices in the brave new world of high definition
(HD) and digital cable. That's bad enough, but the
restrictions could get even worse if cable companies can
evade certain pro-competitive policies. Take action now to
stop them.
http://action.eff.org/cablecard/

In 1996, Congress directed the FCC to clear the way for
useful, competitive alternatives to cable companies'
proprietary set-top boxes, which haves annoyed customers and
held up innovation for far too long. In the digital world,
those boxes help the cable companies and Hollywood ratchet
up limits on legitimate uses, like moving recorded content
to portable video devices.

But cable companies have been dragging their feet on
CableCARD, the credit-card size gadget meant to help create
set-top alternatives. Their latest trick: asking the FCC to
waive a rule that in effect requires their own set-top boxes
to use CableCard to unscramble digital cable signals. This
rule (known as the "integration ban") creates a more level
playing field for CableCard devices. Without it, cable
companies would be able to continue pushing their own
proprietary set-top boxes on customers, treating CableCard
devices (such as TiVo Series 3 HD) like second-class
citizens.

The CableCARD standard also prescribes awful restrictions,
but if the cable companies succeed in killing it off, their
set-top boxes won't face competition, and the DRM will get
much worse. Competition from the CableCARD helps keep the
cable providers' DRM in check -- after all, trying to put
tighter restraints on customers is a good way to lose them
to competitors.

Follow this link to tell the FCC that you support
competition in cable-compatible devices:
http://action.eff.org/cablecard

Who Killed TiVoToGo?

Digital Cable and Satellite DRM Harms TV Fans and Innovators

San Francisco - Digital Video Recorders (DVRs) have changed
the way millions of people watch television. But the new
TiVo Series 3 for HD lacks a feature that past versions have
had -- TiVoToGo, which allows users to move recorded shows
to a computer or other device.

In a report released today, "Who Killed TiVoToGo?", EFF gets
to the bottom of this digital murder mystery. The plot
includes Hollywood, the Federal Communications Commission
(FCC), and digital rights management (DRM) -- and it's an
ominous tale for television fans looking forward to the
widespread adoption of high-definition (HD) television.

"When you upgrade to HD TV, you will lose some of your
favorite features on other digital devices," said EFF
Activist Derek Slater, the report's author. "DRM
restrictions won't stop 'Internet piracy,' but they will
hamper your ability to watch recorded TV content wherever
and whenever you choose."

Both digital cable and satellite providers must transmit
their programming with DRM to satisfy Hollywood's demands --
and because of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act's (DMCA)
restrictions on unlocking DRM even for lawful uses,
innovators like TiVo have to get permission from Hollywood
and the TV providers before creating compatible devices.

TiVo Series 3 HD is one of many new devices that replace
your typical cable set-top box by taking advantage of
CableCARD technology. Because TiVo could not get permission
to include the TiVoToGo feature in conjunction with
CableCARD, the feature was removed.

"Had Hollywood and the TV providers obtained this kind of
veto power years ago, the original TiVo might never have
been created," said Slater. "Remember, Hollywood tried to
stamp out DVRs when they first started to become widespread,
suing DVR-maker ReplayTV into bankruptcy and comparing
commercial-skipping to 'stealing.' TiVoToGo is the latest
casualty in Hollywood's crusade against new technologies."

For the full report "Who Killed TiVoToGo?":
http://www.eff.org/IP/pnp/cablewp.php

Learn more about cable and satellite DRM:
http://www.eff.org/IP/pnp/

For this release:
http://www.eff.org/news/archives/2006_10.php#004934

It is a great OTA DVR. If things really go south....

True, but it would be a single-tuner OTA DVR, wouldn't it? At least that is the way I understand it....

-Randy

Killyoko, I am in the st louis metro area. the guys up here dont seen to ahve a lot of experiencce with cable cards at all, but if you tell the guy what to do it should not be a big deal to get the cable cards to work, the main thing is to install one card at a time and get it activated before installing the second card.

I currently have an LG 3410 for recording HD over OTA. There are a few things I've never liked about the 3410 which are the way it skips (it's a smart skip vs 30 second skip) and you can't record and watch live (or previously recorded) at the same time. So I'm considering upgrading to the new Tivo and have a couple quick questions.

Does the Tivo still do 30 second skip? I think on the old Tivos you had to put some code into the remote. Is that still the way it works?

Does the Tivo work without a subscription? I've never been able to get guide data on my LG 3410 and I just have everything setup to manully record the HD shows that I watch. Can this be done with the Tivo?

jcg

I've seen others in the TCF posting about loose cables, plugs, etc., that they found after cracking the box. Glad it was a "simple" fix!
yep, i'm so glad.

btw there's no seal to break if someone cracks open the box; so warranty's still in place ;)

If it were me, I wouldn't worry... 67C is hot enough for performance degradation but not hot enough to do permanent damage IMO. It's actually a little reassuring that it didn't get any hotter with the fan unplugged.
yeah rite...very reassuring ;)

can't believe quality inspection is this bad at tivo facilities.

Has anyone noticed that their power plug does not really seat firmly in the back of the unit?
yep seems like it will get unplugged with little jerk.

True, but it would be a single-tuner OTA DVR, wouldn't it? At least that is the way I understand it....

-Randy

No, it is a dual-tuner DVR from any source, including OTA. There are 6 tuners inside the box.

Who Killed TiVoToGo?

Napster and its users, back around 1999, killed TiVOToGo and saddled us all with the horrendous DRM on digital media that we must deal with today. The sad thing is, we all knew what we were doing back then was wrong -- is it really so surprising how the content producers and owners (over)reacted in the wake of all that wanton theft of copyrighted material?

My $0.02. We can only blame ourselves for the mess we're in now...

Does the Tivo still do 30 second skip? I think on the old Tivos you had to put some code into the remote. Is that still the way it works?
Yes.

Does the Tivo work without a subscription?No. Tivos require a subscription.

I've never been able to get guide data on my LG 3410 and I just have everything setup to manully record the HD shows that I watch.
Tivo delivers their guide data using the Internet, so you would have 14-days of comprehensive, searchable guide data on the Series3, regardless of where you live.

No, it is a dual-tuner DVR from any source, including OTA. There are 6 tuners inside the box.
No, it has 2 tuners. You can record from any 2 sources at once (cbl,cbl or ant,ant or cbl,ant). The incoming cable and antenna are split to each tuner.

IFLYSWA, no it would still be a dual tuner HD OTA DVR.

Has anyone had any problems with the S3 freezing up I have had mine freeze up 2 times in less thatn 6 hrs last night. also they realy should plan for firmware upgrades, I was watching something sunday night and recording another thing at like 930 and they sent a firmware upgrade and forced a reboot right in the middle of my recording causing me to loose like 10 min of the show before it came back up.

True, but it would be a single-tuner OTA DVR, wouldn't it? At least that is the way I understand it....

-Randy

Nope... It can record two OTA programs at a time.

Nope... It can record two OTA programs at a time.

Thanks to both replies. The TiVo website just mentions being able to record two digital cable shows at once, and I thought I had read that there are two QAM tuners and one ATSC somewhere. I'm glad I was mistaken!

-Randy

I think a lot of people are concerned about SDV. However, I dont believe it will come on that fast or that it will effect the 'popular' channels. I would expect all the music channels, shopping channels, and niche stuff to move to SDV which doesnt bother me in the least. If something I like moves, Ill just rent an SA8300HD and recored it there and enjoy Tivo goodness for everything else.

Sometimes we worry too much.....

Follow up.... The S3 will never be useless.... It is a great OTA DVR. If things really go south.... You can always sell it on ebay and get a Series 4 :)Unfortunately my geographic location precludes Satellite and OTA reception and I'm anti-ebay. ;) Right now Time Warner Cable is my only option and eventually FiOS TV will be available in my area too. I have a 50PX50U w/CableCARD & SA8300HD DVR plus a 4-year-old Panasonic CT-36HL42 225 lb. :eek: CRT TV, which requires an external tuner for HD reception. So if I purchased a $799.99 HD TiVo right now, it would be nice to be able to use it with the CRT TV someday after the S4 comes out. :)

Unfortunately my geographic location precludes Satellite and OTA reception and I'm anti-ebay. ;) Right now Time Warner Cable is my only option and eventually FiOS TV will be available in my area too. I have a 50PX50U w/CableCARD & SA8300HD DVR plus a 4-year-old Panasonic CT-36HL42 225 lb. :eek: CRT TV, which requires an external tuner for HD reception. So if I purchased a $799.99 HD TiVo right now, it would be nice to be able to use it with the CRT TV someday after the S4 comes out. :)
S3 just came out, and already talking about S4...S5....????

Sure! As soon as CC2 or OCAP or whatever they call it is finalized, we'll all be salivating for an S4.

S3 just came out, and already talking about S4...S5....????Not me. Follow up.... The S3 will never be useless.... It is a great OTA DVR. If things really go south.... You can always sell it on ebay and get a Series 4 :)but IMO... for the $799.99 one should be able to get more mileage out of the S3... that is, use it with an old HD ready TV when making way for the S4 that will come along eventually. It seems the S3 isn't quite ready for prime-time given the initial experiences that early adopters are having with one-way CableCARDs and the content providers draconian DRM policies. Why we don't demand more from the manufacturers of DCR devices and the CATV/content providers is beyond me... I've become weary of spending BIG bucks on A/V equipment and services while in return getting a lot of excuses, mis-representations, outright lies and broken promises from the industries players.

"Demanding" is a pretty empty gesture, on the part of a customer. The power a customer has rests in that customers money. If enough customers are ready to put up enough money, for all the stakeholders in the supply chain (producer, broadcaster, cable company, device manufacturers and service/software providers like TiVo) then what is "demanded" will be provided. The reality is that very few customers are willing to spend that much money. Customer lack of commitment is to blame for you not getting what you want.

"Demanding" is a pretty empty gesture, on the part of a customer. The power a customer has rests in that customers money. If enough customers are ready to put up enough money, for all the stakeholders in the supply chain (producer, broadcaster, cable company, device manufacturers and service/software providers like TiVo) then what is "demanded" will be provided. The reality is that very few customers are willing to spend that much money. Customer lack of commitment is to blame for you not getting what you want.Correct, the bottom line is... we are nothing more than a bunch of "sheep" and we get what we deserve. ;) I guess I could read a book instead.

In reality, customers are much fiercer than sheep -- the issue is that "those" customers don't want what "we" want -- and "they" get what "they" want. They've got other things to spend their money on! :D

do i really need to put S3 into Standby when not used? is there a shortcut to power off?

do i really need to put S3 into Standby when not used? is there a shortcut to power off?

I NEVER put mine in standby - I really don't see the point of doing this, to be honest.

I NEVER put mine in standby - I really don't see the point of doing this, to be honest.
Standby uses less energy I guess ;)