Well, my two new hard drives came last night, so I'm off to do some TiVo surgery. :eek: Kinda scary, but bfdtv's instructions are so clear and detailed, I'm pretty confident I won't kill them. I'll report back when the patients are out of recovery......;)

It's time to replace the hard drive. Most TiVos will last 10+ years if you replace the drive every 3-4 years.

Drive upgrade/replacement instructions are here (TCF) (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784#instructions) and here (AVS) (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=879469#upgrade). These drives will work fine in the Series3:

Seagate ST31000322CS @ Provantage.com (http://www.provantage.com/seagate-st31000322cs~7SEGS1XR.htm)
Seagate ST31000322CS @ TheNerds.net (http://www.thenerds.net/SEAGATE.Seagate_Pipeline_HD_ST31000322CS_Hard_Drive.ST310003 22CS.html)
Seagate ST31000322CS @ PC Connection (http://www.pcconnection.com/IPA/Shop/Product/Detail.htm?sku=9688307)
Seagate ST31000322CS @ Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Pipeline-HD-ST31000322CS-internal/dp/B0027QP1YU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1255213188&sr=8-2)

Western Digital WD10EVDS @ Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-AV-GP-Drive-WD10EVDS/dp/B002P3KO74/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1255842388&sr=8-1)
Western Digital WD10EVDS @ Buy.com (http://www.buy.com/prod/western-digital-av-gp-wd10evds-hard-drive-1tb-7200rpm-internal/q/loc/101/210673282.html)
Western Digital WD10EVDS @ TheNerds.net (http://www.thenerds.net/WESTERN_DIGITAL.Western_Digital_AV_GP_WD10EVDS_Hard_Drive.WD 10EVDS.html)
Western Digital WD10EVDS @ CDW (http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?edc=1782214)

The WD10EVDS produces a bit less noise, but it also costs $10 more.

I have a Seagate ST 31000528AS drive available to me at no cost. This drive appears to exceed all the specs of the 322CS. Any reason this drive would not work?

I have a Seagate ST 31000528AS drive available to me at no cost. This drive appears to exceed all the specs of the 322CS. Any reason this drive would not work?There's no reason it shouldn't work, assuming you don't mind the noise.

Some 7200rpm drives can overheat in the TiVo, but that drive (Baracuda 7200.12 series, I think) looks like it should be fine.

Well, my two new hard drives came last night, so I'm off to do some TiVo surgery. :eek: Kinda scary, but bfdtv's instructions are so clear and detailed, I'm pretty confident I won't kill them. I'll report back when the patients are out of recovery......;)


The thing that takes the longest is copying the drive, especially if you have alot of recordings. Otherwise it only takes a few minutes total to remove the drive and put it back with the cover back on.

Well, my two new hard drives came last night, so I'm off to do some TiVo surgery. :eek: Kinda scary, but bfdtv's instructions are so clear and detailed, I'm pretty confident I won't kill them. I'll report back when the patients are out of recovery......;)
progprog -- I see that you got the WD10EVDS. Those certainly seem to be the drives of choice for upgrading S3s these days. After doing quite a bit of reading both here and at TCF the last couple of days, about upgrading the internal drive in an S3, I'm about to decide that upgrading before my original equipment 250 gig drive fails might be smart. That way, I can copy everything from the old drive to a new 1 Tb drive,including recordings, and still have the old drive available as a backup should the necessity arise.

Has anybody ever upgraded a TiVo drive using Windows XP installed in a VMWare partition on a Macbook Pro? My main concern is that my Macbook Pro's only external connections for drives are USB and FireWire. What would I do, buy an enclosure or some other device that would allow the computer to communicate with both discs via either USB or FW?

I already mentioned this in the TivoHD thread, but...

As of 1pm PST (4pm EST), TiVo's servers now have the correct guide data for FOX tonight, with listings for new episodes of Bones and Fringe. The guide data downloaded last night listed World Series Gm7 in those timeslots.

If you record those two programs, then I would force a connection under Settings -> Phone & Network if you haven't done so already. Be aware that the guide and To Do List won't update with the new schedule until 30-45 minutes after the connection is complete (that's how long it takes TiVo to index the changes). Don't wait until the last minute.

I already mentioned this in the TivoHD thread, but...

As of 1pm PST (4pm EST), TiVo's servers now have the correct guide data for FOX tonight, with listings for new episodes of Bones and Fringe. The guide data downloaded last night listed World Series Gm7 in those timeslots.

If you record those two programs, then I would force a connection under Settings -> Phone & Network if you haven't done so already. Be aware that the guide and To Do List won't update with the new schedule until 30-45 minutes after the connection is complete (that's how long it takes TiVo to index the changes). Don't wait until the last minute.

Thanks for the heads up. Will check now I have a SP on Bones.

The thing that takes the longest is copying the drive, especially if you have alot of recordings. Otherwise it only takes a few minutes total to remove the drive and put it back with the cover back on.
I'm at 3.5 hrs on the drive that doesn't even have that much on it. Should I be worried? The little progress bar hasn't moved in quite awhile....it's been sitting at ~80% for a long time. :(

I'm at 3.5 hrs on the drive that doesn't even have that much on it. Should I be worried? The little progress bar hasn't moved in quite awhile....it's been sitting at ~80% for a long time. :(If you have any sort of security / antivirus software installed, you might want to do the backup and restore while in Windows safe mode (to make sure those programs aren't running).

If you have any sort of security / antivirus software installed, you might want to do the backup and restore while in Windows safe mode (to make sure those programs aren't running).
Good idea. The progress was stuck at ~80% for an hour and a half, and while the source drive was clearly running and felt hot, the destination drive wasn't doing anything. It was cold and I couldn't feel it running.

I decided to cancel mfscopy (which itself didn't seem to do anything). I've restarted and both drives are being detected, so the new one didn't die (that was my concern). But that's a good plan.....I'll restart in safe mode before I restart the copy.

Keeping my fingers crossed.....

UPDATE: It progressed much faster in safe mode, but unfortunately, I think it has frozen again at the 80% mark. Not sure of the next step. Time to research.....
----------
UPDATE 2: Yup, it was definitely freezing in that one spot. Since I bought two new drives, I'm trying the second one. I sure hope all the failed attempts haven't screwed up the original source drive.
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UPDATE 3: It froze at exactly the same spot with the second drive. :(Obviously an issue with the source drive. Help!? :confused:

If you have any sort of security / antivirus software installed, you might want to do the backup and restore while in Windows safe mode (to make sure those programs aren't running).

I've never had any problem copying the TiVo drives with my security/antiVirus software running.

I'm at 3.5 hrs on the drive that doesn't even have that much on it. Should I be worried? The little progress bar hasn't moved in quite awhile....it's been sitting at ~80% for a long time. :(

I know sometimes the progress bar will seem frozen, but 3.5 hours is too long for copying the stock 250GB or 160GB drive.

You might need to just try copying the software and season passes and have to forgo copying the shows on the drive if it keeps sticking at 80%.

I've never had any problem copying the TiVo drives with my security/antiVirus software running.Many others have.

UPDATE: It progressed much faster in safe mode, but unfortunately, I think it has frozen again at the 80% mark. Not sure of the next step. Time to research.....
----------
UPDATE 2: Yup, it was definitely freezing in that one spot. Since I bought two new drives, I'm trying the second one. I sure hope all the failed attempts haven't screwed up the original source drive.
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UPDATE 3: It froze at exactly the same spot with the second drive. :(Obviously an issue with the source drive. Help!? :confused:If there is a significant problem with your source drive at that point (i.e. where you hit 80%), you may not be able to backup and restore your recordings.

If you don't mind losing your recordings, you can perform a truncated backup that will only backup your settings, season passes, wishlists, and CableCard pairing information. Then, if necessary, you can temporarily reinstall the original drive to watch (or download) the older recordings before installing the new drive.

I recently replaced the drive in my Series 3 because I suspected the original drive was failing. I got the drive recommended by the install instructions at the time, the Western Digital WD10EVVS, and went at it. I cleaned out my 'Deleted Items' and 'TiVo Recommendations' folders before starting, so that there wasn't much data left on the original drive.

The instructions were excellent and were very easy to follow. The disk copy took about 20 minutes. In fact, it went so smoothly that as I was screwing the cover back on I commented to my wife, "Wow, that went too well -- I was hoping for a challenge."

As you probably would expect from that comment, when everything was connected back up, the TiVo wouldn't boot. On the TiVo Forums, there were several other people who had gotten the same drive at the same time from Amazon, and were having the same problems. We noted we all had the same drive build date and firmware revision, too. After 3 more attempts, I was finally able to boot the TiVo. Others on the forum weren't so lucky.

So I guess my morals are:

The directions are easy to follow
There are people ready to help if you have trouble
Don't put the TiVo back together until you're sure it boots
Don't tempt fate

On the TiVo Forums, there were several other people who had gotten the same drive at the same time from Amazon, and were having the same problems. We noted we all had the same drive build date and firmware revision, too.Right. One should avoid the WD10EVVS, because units manufacturer after September 19 apparently feature a new firmware that is incompatible with the TiVo.

The WD10EVDS is unaffected. For now, WD10EVDS drives are fully compatible with the TivoHD and Series3.

Many others have.

If there is a significant problem with your source drive at that point (i.e. where you hit 80%), you may not be able to backup and restore your recordings.

If you don't mind losing your recordings, you can perform a truncated backup that will only backup your settings, season passes, wishlists, and CableCard pairing information. Then, if necessary, you can temporarily reinstall the original drive to watch (or download) the older recordings before installing the new drive.
That's looks like my game plan now. Seems weird that I've never experienced any problem with that machine, considering that there's obviously a HD issue.

Fortunately, I have two S3s, so it may take a while, but I think I can transfer some stuff back and forth and ultimately not lose anything. Thanks again for all your help and advice. :)

I've never had any problem copying the TiVo drives with my security/antiVirus software running.
There may have other background programs involved (aside from Norton Internet Security), but running in safe mode definitely cut the copy time dramatically.

There may have other background programs involved (aside from Norton Internet Security), but running in safe mode definitely cut the copy time dramatically.


Maybe I never had problems because i use either a 3.2Ghz quad core machine or a 2.8Ghz dual core machine to make my copies.

I don't know but I never had issues. i could watch HD content, listen to music, web surf etc, anything i would normally do and it wouldn't affect the copying of the TiVo hard drive.

Maybe I never had problems because i use either a 3.2Ghz quad core machine or a 2.8Ghz dual core machine to make my copies.

I don't know but I never had issues. i could watch HD content, listen to music, web surf etc, anything i would normally do and it wouldn't affect the copying of the TiVo hard drive.
There were no "issues" related to NIS or running other operations.....just longer copy times. Since I was starting over several times with different configurations (to try and get past that source disc issue at 80%), using the fastest possible approach made a big difference. (I was up until 3am as it was! :eek:) If I had been able to just start it once and let it run to completion, I wouldn't have cared much either about what else may or may not have been slowing it down.

Is there a shortcut for this? It has tons of stuff in it and using CLEAR doesn't seem to work like it does with other folders.

Is there a shortcut for this? It has tons of stuff in it and using CLEAR doesn't seem to work like it does with other folders.There's no shortcut to delete everything in Recently Deleted. You've got to clear it one recording at at time.

I can't believe how quiet these new WD drives are! :eek: Next to the noise of my open computer with all its fans and other drives running, I didn't notice. But I have one mounted in an open TiVo box as I transfer recordings, and I honestly can't hear it from just a foot or two away! With the cover off the TiVo! This alone would be a good reason to upgrade. :)

Tonight I asked my S3 to call in and it rebooted. Since then it's in a constant reboot cycle. Seems to make it as far as the tuner adapter picking up the channels, but that's it.

If I try to play a show it will make it about, well, to where the tuner adapter picks up the channels....say 5 minutes tops....and then it reboots.

I think the hard drive is out on this thing. So I have some questions, bfdtv holler if you hear me.

Instant cake. Any possibility of using this? And can you link me into the massive file that you made so I can find it.

Don't know which drive went out either. Is it the TiVo or the eSata? How can I tell?

Any other thoughts anyone else might have is appreciated. It's been acting slow now for several months, I should have been proactive and done something about it but such is life.

If at all possible I'd like to recover the shows off the drive too. If necessary. And will TiVo allow me to move the 1 year service plan on to a new machine.

Wow....that's too bad. I'm sorry to hear about that.

I don't understand what is technically happening as a hard drive fails in there, but I think one of mine was on the way out too. I had started to get some weird behavior with it in recent months, most annoying was the issue with messed up VOD downloads. As I chronicled here a few days ago, I finally upgraded the hard drives in both my S3s. So far, the one that was having issues really does appear to be working better. It downloaded the Mad Men episode last night with no problems whatsoever....so I'm pretty happy with it so far.

If the mfscopy program can still read the drive, it does a great job of transferring everything over. One of mine had some sort of disc error that prevented it from finishing, but the other copied over quickly and flawlessly. Because I have two S3s, I was able to transfer the stuff I couldn't copy (on the first one) and eventually get it back onto the new drive.

The drives are relatively cheap, so if you think a hard drive replacement is a solution for your current issue, I say the sooner you do it, the better.

Tonight I asked my S3 to call in and it rebooted. Since then it's in a constant reboot cycle. Seems to make it as far as the tuner adapter picking up the channels, but that's it.

If I try to play a show it will make it about, well, to where the tuner adapter picks up the channels....say 5 minutes tops....and then it reboots.

I think the hard drive is out on this thing. So I have some questions, bfdtv holler if you hear me.

Instant cake. Any possibility of using this? And can you link me into the massive file that you made so I can find it.

Don't know which drive went out either. Is it the TiVo or the eSata? How can I tell?

Any other thoughts anyone else might have is appreciated. It's been acting slow now for several months, I should have been proactive and done something about it but such is life.

If at all possible I'd like to recover the shows off the drive too. If necessary. And will TiVo allow me to move the 1 year service plan on to a new machine.

I had sucess with one of my failures that was very similar by removing the cable cards and the incoming cable so the unit was not processing any video. I was then able to boot up and move all my programming to my PC (takes a while though). If I booted the machine up, then plugged in the cards and cables, the unit would work for a bit, then freeze, then reboot.

I had sucess with one of my failures that was very similar by removing the cable cards and the incoming cable so the unit was not processing any video. I was then able to boot up and move all my programming to my PC (takes a while though). If I booted the machine up, then plugged in the cards and cables, the unit would work for a bit, then freeze, then reboot.

Were you ultimately able to fix it?

Were ultimately you able to fix it?

No. I spent the $150 and got a replacement S3 from TiVo. It had nothing to do with the cable cards themselves. The same cards are happily living in the replacement unit. I was happy just to save all my content.

No. I spent the $150 and got a replacement S3 from TiVo. It had nothing to do with the cable cards themselves. The same cards are happily living in the replacement unit. I was happy just to save all my content.

That's kind of scary. Any idea what actually failed in it? (I assume the replacement option was something available back when they still made S3s?)

That's kind of scary. Any idea what actually failed in it? (I assume the replacement option was something available back when they still made S3s?)JohnMc described a drive failure.

We're going to start seeing a lot more reports of sluggish behavior, audio dropouts, pixelization, and reboots in this thread, now that the TiVo Series3 has been out for over three years. After three years, DVR drive failures become much more common, and all of those are symptoms.

A drive upgrade is a good preemptive solution. As mentioned earlier in this thread, most TiVos will last 10+ years if you're willing to upgrade the drive every 3-5 years.

Don't know which drive went out either. Is it the TiVo or the eSata? How can I tell?

Any other thoughts anyone else might have is appreciated. It's been acting slow now for several months, I should have been proactive and done something about it but such is life.Poor responsiveness is one the early signs of drive failure.

There's no easy way to tell whether the internal or external drive is responsible. If you still see the problem with the eSATA drive disconnected, then you know where the problem lies. Before you disconnect the external drive, you might transfer any shows you can to your PC using TiVo Desktop 2.8. You can transfer them back later.

I think the hard drive is out on this thing. So I have some questions, bfdtv holler if you hear me.

Instant cake. Any possibility of using this? And can you link me into the massive file that you made so I can find it.Drive upgrade/replacement instructions are here (TCF) (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784#instructions) and here (AVS) (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=879469#upgrade). If your TiVo drive is too far gone to make a backup image, then there's InstantCake (http://www.dvrupgrade.com/dvr/stores/1/instantcake.cfm).

The WD10EVDS is a 1TB drive compatible with the TiVo Series3:

Western Digital WD10EVDS @ Buy.com (http://www.buy.com/prod/western-digital-av-gp-wd10evds-hard-drive-1tb-7200rpm-internal/q/loc/101/210673282.html)
Western Digital WD10EVDS @ TheNerds.net (http://www.thenerds.net/WESTERN_DIGITAL.Western_Digital_AV_GP_WD10EVDS_Hard_Drive.WD 10EVDS.html)
Western Digital WD10EVDS @ Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-AV-GP-Drive-WD10EVDS/dp/B002P3KO74/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1255842388&sr=8-1)
Western Digital WD10EVDS @ CDW (http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?edc=1782214)

That's kind of scary. Any idea what actually failed in it? (I assume the replacement option was something available back when they still made S3s?)

This was only about 6 months ago. I believe they still replace them. It is a "reconditioned" unit, not a new one. I'm on my third S3 since I bought it. My other unit is a TiVo HD, and I'm on my second unit there.

JohnMc described a drive failure.

We're going to start seeing a lot more reports of sluggish behavior, audio dropouts, pixelization, and reboots in this thread, now that the TiVo Series3 has been out for over three years. After three years, DVR drive failures become much more common, and all of those are symptoms.



I bought my S3 in January 2004, so it (or more correctly, my original S3 before replacements) is almost 6 years old now. I've already ordered my WD drives to hopefully prevent shelling out $150 yet again and again.

We're going to start seeing a lot more reports of sluggish behavior, audio dropouts, pixelization, and reboots in this thread, now that the TiVo Series3 has been out for over three years. After three years, DVR drive failures become much more common, and all of those are symptoms.
I'm a little confused (and curious) why drive failures in DVRs would be so different from drive failures in PCs. In my experience, when a computer's hard drive starts to fail, it's not a matter of gradual performance deterioration, but sudden weird behavior, usually noises, followed by complete, fatal failure. (I've learned the hard way to rescue my data ASAP....)

This makes me wonder (just speculating) if what we're looking at is more about less-effective disc management in DVR software than actual hardware failure. For example, if they don't optimize the disc, or do it poorly, you'd eventually have really bad fragmentation. This would like likely reveal itself in the performance degradation previously described. Poor bad-sector detection and management would also be a problem.

Any thoughts?

I bought my S3 in January 2004, so it (or more correctly, my original S3 before replacements) is almost 6 years old now. I've already ordered my WD drives to hopefully prevent shelling out $150 yet again and again.
You sure it's a Series 3 HD-DVR you're talking about? The S3 came out Sept 2006.

You sure it's a Series 3 HD-DVR you're talking about? The S3 came out Sept 2006.

I guess it was Jan 2007. I just remembered buying at a a Superbowl I was at, So if not 2004 in Houston, it must have been 2007 in Miami. It just seems like I've had it forever. I had D* HD Tivos before moving to FIOS.

Well thanks for the information guys. What I ended up doing was taking the 4 100.00 gift certificates I had for Best Buy, kicked in 100.50 of my own money and walked out with a HD TiVo and a 1tb eSATA. The eSATA was the only one they had in the store and internet said not available so I was lucky to even find it.

I noticed not only did they have TiVo HD but they also had Series 2 and they had a bunch of them too. I didn't think they still sold those.

I'm a little confused (and curious) why drive failures in DVRs would be so different from drive failures in PCs. In my experience, when a computer's hard drive starts to fail, it's not a matter of gradual performance deterioration, but sudden weird behavior, usually noises, followed by complete, fatal failure. (I've learned the hard way to rescue my data ASAP....)

This makes me wonder (just speculating) if what we're looking at is more about less-effective disc management in DVR software than actual hardware failure. For example, if they don't optimize the disc, or do it poorly, you'd eventually have really bad fragmentation. This would like likely reveal itself in the performance degradation previously described. Poor bad-sector detection and management would also be a problem.

Any thoughts?

I would speculate that it is because of the fact that the drives in DVRs never spin down. Some would argue that this fact makes them last longer (no power cycle/spin-up/spin-downs), but it may be that they last longer in PCs (specifically desktop PC's) because they aren't running 24/7.

I had an S2 that failed rather slowly - and it all started with a high pitched whine which would come and go. Eventually it whined more often than it didn't whine, and eventually, after a power outage, it wouldn't power back on.

I'm a little confused (and curious) why drive failures in DVRs would be so different from drive failures in PCs. In my experience, when a computer's hard drive starts to fail, it's not a matter of gradual performance deterioration, but sudden weird behavior, usually noises, followed by complete, fatal failure. (I've learned the hard way to rescue my data ASAP....)I would speculate that it is because of the fact that the drives in DVRs never spin down. Some would argue that this fact makes them last longer (no power cycle/spin-up/spin-downs), but it may be that they last longer in PCs (specifically desktop PC's) because they aren't running 24/7.
I'm sure 24/7 operation is part of it, although I think differences in drive usage patterns are mostly to blame.

With TiVo DVRs, you have around 300-400Mb allocated to the software partition, and the rest of the drive is constantly read and written, over and over. Since the entire drive is used on a regular basis, there is more wear/tear, and a much greater chance that a defective portion of the drive will be read or written.

With the typical PC, you have gigabytes and gigabytes of OS and program files that do not change. Aside from the swap file, Internet cache files, emails, and few very small document files, the typical PC user does very little writing to their hard drive on a daily basis. The typical PC probably does less writing to its hard drive in a day than the TiVo does in several minutes.

When bad sectors do develop on a disk, PC users do not notice because they are on a part of the drive that the individual rarely uses. Cache files, emails, and documents tend to be small, so the chance of hitting a bad sector is slim unless the drive is in really bad shape. With the TiVo, the liveTV buffer and every recording consists of TS files and file segments that are hundreds of megabytes (or even gigabytes) in size.

I'm sure 24/7 operation is part of it, although I think differences in drive usage patterns are mostly to blame.

With TiVo DVRs, you have around 300-400Mb allocated to the software partition, and the rest of the drive is constantly read and written, over and over. Since the entire drive is used on a regular basis, there is more wear/tear, and a much greater chance that a defective portion of the drive will be read or written.

With the typical PC, you have gigabytes and gigabytes of OS and program files that do not change. Aside from the swap file, Internet cache files, emails, and few very small document files, the typical PC user does very little writing to their hard drive on a daily basis. The typical PC probably does less writing to its hard drive in a day than the TiVo does in several minutes.

When bad sectors do develop on a disk, many PC users never notice them because they are on a part of the drive that the individual never uses. Cache files, emails, and documents tend to be small, so the chance of hitting a bad sector is slim unless the drive is really in bad shape. With the TiVo, the liveTV buffer and every recording consists of TS files and file segments that are hundreds of megabytes (or even gigabytes) in size.

Does putting the TiVo in Stand By mode help?

Anything to be aware of when adding one of these?

My Time Warner services is now making them available and necessary.

thanks,

FCD

Does putting the TiVo in Stand By mode help?No. Putting the TiVo in standby simply disables video output.

I replace the original drive with a WD10EVDS everything went fine.

Thanks for all the info bfdtv.

Why in System Info does it show I only have 36 HD hours?

Anything to be aware of when adding one of these?

My Time Warner services is now making them available and necessary.Not really. Hook-up is pretty simple. You might have to call your provider to "hit" the unit with a message enabling it to work, which you usually have to do if you pick up a new leased STB from them.

Not really. Hook-up is pretty simple. You might have to call your provider to "hit" the unit with a message enabling it to work, which you usually have to do if you pick up a new leased STB from them.

Hook up is simple, but getting customer service to deal with it depends on who you get, at least in my area.

And trying to change cable cards to a new TiVo is really an adventure, at least at Time Warner.

I replace the original drive with a WD10EVDS everything went fine.

Thanks for all the info bfdtv.

Why in System Info does it show I only have 36 HD hours?I assumed you followed instructions in FAQ #211 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=879469#upgrade)?

It sounds like you accidentally clicked No when WinMFS asked whether you wanted to expand the drive. To fix that, reconnect the new drive to your computer, launch WinMFS as an administrator, click select File -> Select Drive to select the TiVo drive, and then select Tools -> Mfsadd. After that, select Tools-> MfsSuperSize -> On to get the full 157 HD hours.

Yes it sucks to have put the drive back in, put the cover back on, only to realize you forgot something.
I can't count the number of times I've done something like that. But for me I usually forget to set the Acoustic management setting to 128.
At least with the newer drives it is already on that setting.

I assumed you followed instructions in FAQ #211 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=879469#upgrade)?

It sounds like you accidentally clicked No when WinMFS asked whether you wanted to expand the drive. To fix that, reconnect the new drive to your computer, launch WinMFS as an administrator, click select File -> Select Drive to select the TiVo drive, and then select Tools -> Mfsadd. After that, select Tools-> MfsSuperSize -> On to get the full 157 HD hours.

Thanks that worked perfect. I think I missed the MfsSuperSize step.

By the way I did this from my laptop and had no option to launch as administrator.

Hook up is simple, but getting customer service to deal with it depends on who you get, at least in my area.

And trying to change cable cards to a new TiVo is really an adventure, at least at Time Warner.
I have had similar experiences with Cox OKC. Anytime you have to setup or reconfigure CableCARDs, your chances of having it turn into a time consuming mess are very good. It's too bad but there it is.

I have now had the opportunity to make some comparisons between Netflix streaming via the S3 and via the PS3. As a TiVo owner of many years standing, I appreciate how closely NF's TiVo client adheres to Tivo's own implementation. For example, the time line shows up with press of the play button but doesn't pause the stream; The 8 second backspace works just as it does with recordings; and the Info button displays a synopsis of the NF title being streamed.

For those of you who have a PS3 in addition to your TiVos, my impressions of NF's client for the PS3 are a mixed bag. It's best trait, by far, is its PQ. Wow, it's wonderful, far better than that of a Netflix stream seen on my S3. I don't know why that is but it's a fact. Unfortunately, the NF streaming client for the S3 is inferior to the TiVo client in almost every other way.: It is impossible to stream NF content until and unless the NF disc is loaded on the PS3. That can be a pain. There is no way to display the synopsis of the title being played while it is being played. Although the PS3's Info button displays the time line graphic, it is blank; the only way to tell how long the streamed title has been running is to hit Pause. That's a major pain, it seems to me. The PS3 provides a graphic for each title loaded in your NF Watch Instantly queue. While it looks nice, it is not really significantly better than TiVo's familiar but plain list.

Despite its inconvenience compared to TiVo, I plan to use the PS3 to stream NF content most of the time from here on because of the significant superiority of its PQ.

Thanks for the comparative feedback, re: Netflix.

I'm always tantalized by the possibility of setting my S3 up for Netflix, but your review nixes that idea. Just don't want to sacrifice more than a smidgen of difference in picture quality for the convenience factor. If it's a very slight degradation, then fine. But it sound like more than very slight.

Guess it's time I finally delete that empty Netflix folder that Tivo automatically set-up on my machine so many months ago.

Thanks for the comparative feedback, re: Netflix.

I'm always tantalized by the possibility of setting my S3 up for Netflix, but your review nixes that idea. Just don't want to sacrifice more than a smidgen of difference in picture quality for the convenience factor. If it's a very slight degradation, then fine. But it sound like more than very slight.

Guess it's time I finally delete that empty Netflix folder that Tivo automatically set-up on my machine so many months ago.
The difference in the PQ of NF streaming between the S3 and the PS3 is dramatic, at least to my eyes. For example, I did an A-B test of the opening scene of Blindness yesterday. In it is a closeup of a stoplight lens. On the S3 the picture had golfball size artifacts in it and the overall picture was generally muddy. On the PS3, though, I saw no artifacts and the overall PQ was outstanding, almost as good as a DVD. I confirmed the difference today when I watched several episodes of the old BBC series, MI-5 (known in the UK as Spooks). The PQ was essentially DVD quality, far better than it had been when I watched some of the same shows on the TiVo S3. Despite the shortcomings of the NF streaming client for the PS3, I have really enjoyed using it because of how much better the content looks than it did on the S3.

I have now had the opportunity to make some comparisons between Netflix streaming via the S3 and via the PS3.
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Really interesting ....thanks for taking the time to do such a thorough comparison and writing it up for our benefit. :)

I've compared TiVo S3, Xbox and PS3 Netflix players and don't notice any difference in PQ; aaronwt stated a similar observation in this (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7608310#post7608310) post at TCF (he compared Netflix players on TiVo, an LG Blu-ray player and the PS3 disc). All three device are connected by HDMI to an Onkyo receiver and from there into my television.

I'm sticking with TiVo. Though its GUI is the least attractive of the three (Xbox and PS3 being the others), videos start playing noticeable faster on TiVo. My Xbox is too loud and I use my PS3 pretty much daily for viewing Blu-rays and video files on my PC and for gaming. The only other advantage of the console players is that you can browse a portion of the streaming library with them, play titles outside of your queue without adding them to your queue and add/delete things from your queue. Since the monitor of the PC that I'm as I edit this is the same 46" 1080p LCD panel that I view TiVo, Xbox and PS3 with, manipulating my Instant Queue on a PC isn't much of an inconvenience.

The difference in the PQ of NF streaming between the S3 and the PS3 is dramatic, at least to my eyes. For example, I did an A-B test of the opening scene of Blindness yesterday. In it is a closeup of a stoplight lens. On the S3 the picture had golfball size artifacts in it and the overall picture was generally muddy. On the PS3, though, I saw no artifacts and the overall PQ was outstanding, almost as good as a DVD. I confirmed the difference today when I watched several episodes of the old BBC series, MI-5 (known in the UK as Spooks). The PQ was essentially DVD quality, far better than it had been when I watched some of the same shows on the TiVo S3. Despite the shortcomings of the NF streaming client for the PS3, I have really enjoyed using it because of how much better the content looks than it did on the S3.

Do you think that the dramatic PQ difference is only between the S3 and PS3? I have a TiVo HD, and I wouldn't say the Netflix streaming PQ is dramatic - better, but not dramatic. However, as I mentioned to you recently in the PS3 thread, it is different enough to put up with the disc issue and having to switch AVR inputs from the TiVo one, which the AVR is set to for the majority of my TV viewing time.

As for the loading of the disc, I think once I get in the habit of always placing the Netflix disc in the PS3 whenever I eject any other software, it won't be a big deal. However, the lack of program information during streams and the time line not being displayed without pausing is a bit of a disappointment.

One other small nit, on the TiVo, when a movie (or TV show) is streamed in HD, the TiVo confirms that the stream is indeed in HD. However, the PS3 shows "HD" in the movie graphic before you play, but does not confirm that the program is indeed being streamed in HD. I only say this because sometimes an HD program won't stream in HD on my TiVo; I assume due to a temporary bandwidth issue. Perhaps this isn't even an issue with the PS3, but it may be. Sure, the PQ quality is normally world's better with HD streams, but if a particular HD stream is not up to snuff, it's hard to diagnose whether it is that it is not in HD or just not a quality HD stream.

There seems to be a rather wide range of opinions on the PQ. I was just going to pass on the PS3/Netflix version but I guess I'll have to try it now. I don't know why it would be any better, I would think it's only going to be as good as data you're getting, and if I'm not mistaken it's the same bandwidth parameters as the TiVo. Maybe the PS3 has better video processing...

I've compared TiVo S3, Xbox and PS3 Netflix players and don't notice any difference in PQ; aaronwt stated a similar observation in this (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7608310#post7608310) post at TCF (he compared Netflix players on TiVo, an LG Blu-ray player and the PS3 disc). All three device are connected by HDMI to an Onkyo receiver and from there into my television.


As mentioned in my previous post, it is not dramatically better, but when I compare Netflix streams on my TiVo HD to the PS3, it is better, not huge, but better on the PS3. I am doing my comparisons using HDMI on a Panny PJ with a 120" screen.

I suppose some could be switching inputs on their TV, thus different video settings for the different inputs could affect the PQ. For me, however, since my AVR is doing the switching, video settings are ruled out (there are no differences among inputs on my AVR).

I've compared TiVo S3, Xbox and PS3 Netflix players and don't notice any difference in PQ; aaronwt stated a similar observation in this (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7608310#post7608310) post at TCF (he compared Netflix players on TiVo, an LG Blu-ray player and the PS3 disc). All three device are connected by HDMI to an Onkyo receiver and from there into my television.

I'm sticking with TiVo. Though its GUI is the least attractive of the three (Xbox and PS3 being the others), videos start playing noticeable faster on TiVo. My Xbox is too loud and I use my PS3 pretty much daily for viewing Blu-rays and video files on my PC and for gaming. The only other advantage of the console players is that you can browse a portion of the streaming library with them, play titles outside of your queue without adding them to your queue and add/delete things from your queue. Since the monitor of the PC that I'm as I edit this is the same 46" 1080p LCD panel that I view TiVo, Xbox and PS3 with, manipulating my Instant Queue on a PC isn't much of an inconvenience.
I get the NF streams wirelessly on both my S3 and the PS3. Thus, there are so many variables involved that I would be the last to claim that the very real difference in PQ I have observed between them is attributable to differences in the S3 and PS3 alone. Also, somebody suggested in the PS3 thread that the PQ of the TiVo HD could be better than it is on the S3. I don't know because I don't have an HD. I wish somebody with one of each would weigh in on the issue, either here or in the HD thread.

I should have added in my earlier post that I use HDMI on both the S3 and the PS3 to connect to a Yamaha RX-V3900 receiver, which is in turn connected by HDMI to a 60 inch Pioneer Kuro 6020 plasma display.

I agree that except for the general ugliness of TiVo's interface for NF streaming, it is superior to the PS3's in just about every other way.

Lately, my TiVos has started showing a "Videos on ReadyNAS" in their Now Playing Lists. (The ReadyNAS has been on my network for two years and the TiVos didn't used to detect it; not sure when it started.)

Anyway, I'm wondering what type (format) of videos I could potentially store on my NAS for playback on my TiVos. Is anyone using network videos this way?

I suppose some could be switching inputs on their TV, thus different video settings for the different inputs could affect the PQ. For me, however, since my AVR is doing the switching, video settings are ruled out (there are no differences among inputs on my AVR).
I should have included in my last post that the video settings on my Yamaha RX-V3900 are the same for the S3 as they are for the PS3. I have set the 3900 to upconvert all inputs to 1080p before outputting them to my display.

I get the NF streams wirelessly on both my S3 and the PS3. Thus, there are so many variables involved that I would be the last to claim that the very real difference in PQ I have observed between them is attributable to differences in the S3 and PS3 alone.All of my devices have wired connections to the network from an aging Linksys WRT54g router connected to a cable modem. I have 15Mbps Cox service (though who knows what speed I get Netflix's servers). I almost always get all bars and the HD symbol, if there's an HD encoding of the stream. (Another weakness of the PS3 player is that it does not give any indication of connection speed/stream quality, at all--there's no way tell that you got the HD stream other than looking at the PS3 video info display and monitoring the bit rate and guessing based on that; in the Xbox player, if you hit INFO and bring up the scrub bar, it'll tell you how many bars you're currently getting).

My receiver cannot do upconversions; the PS3 sends a 720p signal for the Netflix player and my TV upconverts it. Video output format on my TiVo is set to 1080i Fixed and my Xbox has the equivalent setting; upconversions are being done internally by both.