I received my Series 3 last week and Comcast is scheduled to install the two cablecards next week. In the meantime, I've been playing with the set with only the coax cable attached. (Incidentally, I'm surprised that both tuners work and that I can record two programs at once, even without the cablecards). However, the built-in QAM turner mapping of Comcast's upper channels is confusing. For example, I normally get CBS (HD), on channel 212 (when using Comcast's Motorola box), but the Tivo maps it as 117-212 in the channel list. However, the Tivo information screen shows it as 117-12. When I schedule a program for future record, it uses 117-212. When I try to enter in the CBS channel as 117-12, it goes to a blank screen, and it doesn't accept a seven character number. In other words, the only way I can get to this channel is by toggling the up-channel button or scheduling it in the recording setup (confusing to say the least). So my question is, will the cable cards correctly map the channels to the three character number instead of the confusing seven character assignment?

My second question involves checking the proper channels once the cable cards are installed. I want to make sure that I'm receiving my subscription channels before the cableguy leaves. The Tivo manual says that I have to go through the channel set up again, but this takes a long time and I'm not sure the cableguy will have the patience to wait. If the cable cards are working properly, will I be able to enter in my subscription channels even though I haven't yet gone through the channel setup?

I received my Series 3 last week and Comcast is scheduled to install the two cablecards next week. In the meantime, I've been playing with the set with only the coax cable attached. (Incidentally, I'm surprised that both tuners work and that I can record two programs at once, even without the cablecards). However, the built-in QAM turner mapping of Comcast's upper channels is confusing. For example, I normally get CBS (HD), on channel 212 (when using Comcast's Motorola box), but the Tivo maps it as 117-212 in the channel list. However, the Tivo information screen shows it as 117-12. When I schedule a program for future record, it uses 117-212. When I try to enter in the CBS channel as 117-12, it goes to a blank screen, and it doesn't accept a seven character number. In other words, the only way I can get to this channel is by toggling the up-channel button or scheduling it in the recording setup (confusing to say the least). So my question is, will the cable cards correctly map the channels to the three character number instead of the confusing seven character assignment?

My second question involves checking the proper channels once the cable cards are installed. I want to make sure that I'm receiving my subscription channels before the cableguy leaves. The Tivo manual says that I have to go through the channel set up again, but this takes a long time and I'm not sure the cableguy will have the patience to wait. If the cable cards are working properly, will I be able to enter in my subscription channels even though I haven't yet gone through the channel setup?

Yes, the cablecard takes care of the mapping of the QAM channels to the cableco's channel assignments.

And yes, you should be able to verify that you are getting the subscription channels before repeating guided setup.

I would strongly recommend you read some of the intial pages in this thread (after the S3 came out), or the very useful S3 FAQ on TCF (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=315791). You have posted a bunch of ... umm, FAQs :)

The CableCards are MERELY 'permission slips' or 'hall monitors'. The tuners already exist in the S3. Dual tuners for OTA (internal splitter) and dual for cable (internal splitter, and they tune unencrypted by themselves, encrypted channels when permitted/authorized to by the CableCard(s) )

I know pricing info isn't allowed to be posted, but I would strongly recommend that readers here who are considering an S3 & who also happen to be Costco members quickly (this weekend) visit the Costco.com webpage. :)

I would strongly recommend you read some of the intial pages in this thread (after the S3 came out), or the very useful S3 FAQ on TCF (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=315791). You have posted a bunch of ... umm, FAQs :)

The CableCards are MERELY 'permission slips' or 'hall monitors'. The tuners already exist in the S3. Dual tuners for OTA (internal splitter) and dual for cable (internal splitter, and they tune unencrypted by themselves, encrypted channels when permitted/authorized to by the CableCard(s) )

To be completely correct, Cablecards are more than 'permission slips'. They also do the actual decryption of the encrypted channel streams and then reencrypt the streams for further decryption by the Tivo. As you said.. they are NOT tuners. The tuners are part of the basic Tivo.

I would strongly recommend you read some of the intial pages in this thread (after the S3 came out), or the very useful S3 FAQ on TCF. You have posted a bunch of ... umm, FAQs :)

The CableCards are MERELY 'permission slips' or 'hall monitors'. The tuners already exist in the S3. Dual tuners for OTA (internal splitter) and dual for cable (internal splitter, and they tune unencrypted by themselves, encrypted channels when permitted/authorized to by the CableCard(s) )

I'm not sure if your message was directed to me, but I read the FAQs page before but it did not answer my questions, and some of the FAQs are misleading. I know full well that the Tivo has built-in tuners, but the FAQ page says that "CableCARD is required for digital cable." That's incorrect. CableCards are needed for encrypted digital cable, but I'm able to receive digital HD channels just fine without CableCards at all. The FAQs also do not say that both tuners work without CableCards (unless I missed something). In fact, I got the impression that you needed 2 CableCards inserted to enable both tuners to work, because of statements like, "Two cards will enable both tuners for digital cable" and "If only one CableCARD is inserted, the entire system reverts to single-tuner operation. You lose dual-tuner support for antenna and analog cable, as well as digital cable." The FAQs should state that without CableCards dual-tuners work for OTA, NTSC or ATSC, including unencrypted digital channels. It's only the channel mapping that's a mess (which Tivo might fix at a later date).

If I posted a FAQ, it was only to add to FAQs or to clarify them ;)

And thanks spiff72 for answers to my questions!

Thanks for the further clarification, scsiraid - I always tend to oversimplify my explanation to the point I start to forget the real facts ;)

And MiamiMan, the HD channels you receive are not 'digital cable' per se. If you had NO digital cable on your account, no boxes in the home, your ATSC/QAM-tuner on your TV would STILL pick up all these HD channels (because they're included with your basic cable package) as wellas all the MusicChoice channels and a few/all of the OnDemand streams would also be tunable on a changing basis. My cheap off-brand Sceptre HDTV picks up ALL the same channels my TiVo did without a CableCard. Add the CableCard (to the S3 or a TV that supports it) - and the true digital channels show up, including the ones enabled on your account & authorized/decrypted via the CableCards.

I completelyagree that the FAQ on TCF doews not clarify this issue, but then again, the assumption is that everyone knows which channels are which, and inluded in which package :) This may b an unreaqsonable assumption, of course, leading to confusion!

<edit> I wasn't trying to be snide or unhelpful either, but apologize if my post came off that way!

Ashutoshsm, the unencrypted non-premium HD channels I receive from my Tivo3 without CableCards are in full 16:9, nonstretched, (and not 4:3). The picture quality of these HD channels appear identical to the picture quality I get with my Comcast Motorola box. So I don't know what you mean by the CableCards providing "true" digital as compared without them.

It has been pointed out here before, though, that the tuner's ability to receive unencrypted cable channels isn't particularly Tivo-friendly, since you will not get any guide data for these channels. There is no way to tell the Tivo what channel 104-23 is without having the cablecard installed (at least not yet). Many people hope a fix for this will be provided in the future. If the channel number is too many digits, though (as is the case for miamiman), this won't work at all.

I just purchased the Series 3 TiVo yesterday. I am new to TiVo. This may be a dumb question and it might have been answered before on this thread but I cannot find and "on and of" switch button on either the TiVo or its remote. The owner's manual says nothing about this either. I can hear a noise coming from it at all times when I put my ear up to it. Am I correct to assume that it is is supposted to be in an on mode 24/7 to pick up new data from Tivo Central?

I just purchased the Series 3 TiVo yesterday. I am new to TiVo. This may be a dumb question and it might have been answered before on this thread but I cannot find and "on and of" switch button on either the TiVo or its remote. The owner's manual says nothing about this either. I can hear a noise coming from it at all times when I put my ear up to it. Am I correct to assume that it is is supposted to be in an on mode 24/7 to pick up new data from Tivo Central?Bob - never a dumb question...the TiVo does not power off. You can put it into standby, which will spin the hard drive down, but it will still record anything you have scheduled (plus suggestions if you have that enabled). Yes, it is designed to be on 24/7. Some universal remotes (such as the Logitech Harmony) do have codes to put the TiVo into standby (not by default but through their setup), but the TiVo remote does not have that button. Most folks feel that there's more wear and tear on a hard drive from spinning it up and down than letting it keep spinning 24/7. So, a long answer to your short question but it's not a problem.

Bob - never a dumb question...the TiVo does not power off. You can put it into standby, which will spin the hard drive down, but it will still record anything you have scheduled (plus suggestions if you have that enabled). Yes, it is designed to be on 24/7. Some universal remotes (such as the Logitech Harmony) do have codes to put the TiVo into standby (not by default but through their setup), but the TiVo remote does not have that button. Most folks feel that there's more wear and tear on a hard drive from spinning it up and down than letting it keep spinning 24/7. So, a long answer to your short question but it's not a problem.

Thanks. I thought that this was the case with TiVo. Before I got the TiVo I previously had an LG HD DVR which would turn off when not in use. The TiVo is really great! :)

I had the Sony DHG unit for a couple months last year, and, while it "turned off", you could clearly hear the hard drive spinning. So I think the term "off" has different meanings for different units.

The Motorola 6412 phase III is the same in that you can turn it off, but the hard drive keeps spinning.

I had the Sony DHG unit for a couple months last year, and, while it "turned off", you could clearly hear the hard drive spinning. So I think the term "off" has different meanings for different units.


I don't think that the HDD ever spins down on these devices (Sony or Tivo models). THE SOny will actually still record while it is in "standby". I think the Tivo will record in standby mode too (but I'm not sure whether it has to spin back up, or if it is always spinning)...

TiVos always keep the drive a-spinning, and will record scheduled shows & Suggestions as long as they're powered on.

I posted this in the other thread but I will probally get more feedback here.

Has anyone been able to program the s3 tivo remote to be able to change the inputs on the tv? I have the 57831 and the input button brings up that screen when I program it through the Tivo settings but i cannot change which input to select. It only pulls up the input screen. Anyone able to overcome this?

Can anyone tell me how to measure the signal strength on the cable channels on the S3? I keep get the picture breaking up and I am thinking it could be due to the cable signal being too weak.

I posted this in the other thread but I will probally get more feedback here.

Has anyone been able to program the s3 tivo remote to be able to change the inputs on the tv? I have the 57831 and the input button brings up that screen when I program it through the Tivo settings but i cannot change which input to select. It only pulls up the input screen. Anyone able to overcome this?

I programmed my Tivo S3 remote to scroll through the inputs on my Samsung TV. I guess I got lucky because all of the TV buttons (vol, mute, input, ch) worked correctly after inputting the first Samsung code.

Can anyone tell me how to measure the signal strength on the cable channels on the S3? I keep get the picture breaking up and I am thinking it could be due to the cable signal being too weak.

(from memory)
Messages & Settings -> Channels -> Cable Channel Signal Strength

Mine's always 99%+

Yes, it is designed to be on 24/7. Some universal remotes (such as the Logitech Harmony) do have codes to put the TiVo into standby (not by default but through their setup), but the TiVo remote does not have that button. Most folks feel that there's more wear and tear on a hard drive from spinning it up and down than letting it keep spinning 24/7. So, a long answer to your short question but it's not a problem.Actually, the fact that TiVos do keep recording and keep the hard drive spinning all the time means the the unit's lifespan is significantly lower than that it would otherwise be.

For most modern drives, a MTBF of less than three years when run 24/7 is the norm, so everyone with a TiVo shouldn't expect them to last more than three years or so without needing a new hard drive. :(

Strange... I'm going on five years on one TiVo and four years on another. My understanding is that there is a very strong difference of opinion about the effect of spinning the hard drive continuously versus stopping and starting it, on the MTBF. Some experts say stopping and starting the hard drive does more damage.

Actually, the fact that TiVos do keep recording and keep the hard drive spinning all the time means the the unit's lifespan is significantly lower than that it would otherwise be.

For most modern drives, a MTBF of less than three years when run 24/7 is the norm, so everyone with a TiVo shouldn't expect them to last more than three years or so without needing a new hard drive. :(
I'm at 6 years, 4+ years, 4+ years, 2 years, and now 3 months on my TiVos. Never had a hard drive failure. Methinks your data is wrong.

In the interest of contributing another datapoint, I've had 3 hard drive failres. Two in one unit, in succession, due to a bad fan and inadequate cooling - so that's understandable)
The third (also) a Maxtor Quickview drive, and those are notorious for being engineered to die right around the 3-year mark, just as the warranty on them runs out.

3 drives in a total of around 14 total man-years of TiVo ownership (counting the ones I no longer own, for the duration that I did, as wella s the ones I own that haven't had failures) is not at all worthy of the sad face kucharsk wants to associate with TiVo ownership ;)

Each (rare) time a hard drive failed, there were adequate warning signs for me to rescue my shows if only I hadn't been lazy and ignored clicks and obvious sluggishness. I too the failures as an opportunity to upgrade to a larger/quieter/better drives for more storage at a higher quality :) And I'm eagerly awaiting the approval of the eSATA port as an expansion option for the S3, so I can throw a (by then?) 1TB (or larger) external drive or RAID device on and get rid of another of my S2s (probably the Toshiba with a DVD burner) :)

I'm at 6 years, 4+ years, 4+ years, 2 years, and now 3 months on my TiVos. Never had a hard drive failure. Methinks your data is wrong.

I, also, have one that ran 5 years (until I retired it and switched to my new S3 unit), and another for 3 years still running strong.

Maxtor specifies a 1.2 million hour Mean Time Between Failure (MBTF) figure for their 250GB SATA drives. They're also spec'ed to run 24/7, being optimized for DVRs and their frequently sequential reads/writes. LINKY (http://www.storagereview.com/articles/200309/200309147Y250M0_1.html) That's just under 137 years.

New Maxtors are Seagates. Their confidence is (finally) justified. And believable.

New Maxtors are Seagates. Their confidence is (finally) justified. And believable.

Yup. I only buy Seagates, and have never had one fail me.

Dumb question but to be sure, it has only 2 tuners so if it's recording 2 shows, I can't watch a 3rd through it, right?

You can sort of work around this. Split the cable before it goes into the S3, then have a cable go into another receiver/dvr or straight into the tv (with another cable card if you need it and it is supported). Then you can record two live programs and still watch live tv via the other source.

You can sort of work around this. Split the cable before it goes into the S3, then have a cable go into another receiver/dvr or straight into the tv (with another cable card if you need it and it is supported). Then you can record two live programs and still watch live tv via the other source.

You can watch a previously-recorded show while recording two shows.

You can watch a previously-recorded show while recording two shows.

Which is the whole point of having a TiVo.
Even if it's 15 minutes behind "live" so you can FF through the commercials.

I can't tell you the last time I watched live TV.
(except here at work, but that doesn't count since I'm not really "watching")


Jerry

Hello all

Long thread...interesting though.

I am getting a S3 for xmas next week and have already scheduled Comcast to install the two cable cards on 12/30.

I will be removing my loved series 2 and swapping in the S3

any advice on what I should do prior to comcast arriving?

I may have missed it but I had a question regarding the HDMI handshake issue mose boxes have. Has this HDMI handshake issue been resolved with the Tivo S3? I want to run it through a AV receiver with HDMI switching.

I don't have any trouble with mine and I run it through a Pioneer 84TX. It just takes a few seconds for the handshake to complete before the picture appears when you first turn everything on.

I may have missed it but I had a question regarding the HDMI handshake issue mose boxes have. Has this HDMI handshake issue been resolved with the Tivo S3? I want to run it through a AV receiver with HDMI switching.

I couldn't use HDMI connections from my Time Warner SA8300 Cable DVD to my Sony TV, but HDMI seems OK connecting the S3 to the same TV input port.

TW said they don't support HDMI on their cable boxes. Some TW people aren't having any problem.

If your passthrough device (receiver) and TVcorrectly implement HDMI, you won't have ANY problems with the S3. Its implementation ahs been tested and it is VERY compatible.

Mine works great with my small-brand Sceptre TV even through a monoprice 5x1 HDMI switch, using basic/cheap HDMI cables :)

In the interest of contributing another datapoint, I've had 3 hard drive failres. Two in one unit, in succession, due to a bad fan and inadequate cooling - so that's understandable)
The third (also) a Maxtor Quickview drive, and those are notorious for being engineered to die right around the 3-year mark, just as the warranty on them runs out.

3 drives in a total of around 14 total man-years of TiVo ownership (counting the ones I no longer own, for the duration that I did, as wella s the ones I own that haven't had failures) is not at all worthy of the sad face kucharsk wants to associate with TiVo ownership ;)

Each (rare) time a hard drive failed, there were adequate warning signs for me to rescue my shows if only I hadn't been lazy and ignored clicks and obvious sluggishness. I too the failures as an opportunity to upgrade to a larger/quieter/better drives for more storage at a higher quality :) And I'm eagerly awaiting the approval of the eSATA port as an expansion option for the S3, so I can throw a (by then?) 1TB (or larger) external drive or RAID device on and get rid of another of my S2s (probably the Toshiba with a DVD burner) :)



I bought mine brand new and I had to open it & found out the fan cable not even plugged in!!! It works great since then.

I'm not trying to make TiVo ownership look like it's misery, but there are numerous ways to extend hard drive life these days and TiVo doesn't do them. Spinning down the drive when not in active use (standby mode) is one.

FWIW, many drive manufacturers now quote their expected drive lifespans based on eight hours of use per day, not 24/7 operation as in a server (or for that matter a TiVo.) I couldn't find anything on the Maxtor site defining which methodology they currently use to come up with their "five year minimum expected lifespan" figure for the QuickView drive used in the S3.

I was planning on waiting until the new year to purchase my Series3, but I just got the go-ahead from the wife this morning to buy it. Took me about 2 minutes to whip out the credit card and complete the purchase on-line. :)

It should take about a week for it to get here, get installed, and verify functionality. After that, it's going to be a joyous trip to the local Adelphia/Comcast office to rid myself of this POS 8300 boat-anchor. YAY! :D

Cable Card #2 sees all the channels it should.

Cable Card #1 only sees up to about 22.

Any ideas whats up.

Missing cable card channels.

There are a number of threads on TCF regarding missing channels; sometimes it is analog channels; sometimes it is digital channels. I encountered that problem, and being unable to resolve it in a timely manner, it was one reason I returned my S3.

I'm not trying to make TiVo ownership look like it's misery, but there are numerous ways to extend hard drive life these days and TiVo doesn't do them. Spinning down the drive when not in active use (standby mode) is one.



Umm, but you MISS the point! The TiVo is NEVER inactive and always buffers the last 30 minutes of the channel (or inc ase of the S3, the TWO channels) it is tuned to. I (and I'm sure most other users) wouldn't have it any other way.

Now I'm sure you make a half-decent point by saying that offering the OPTION to power down the drive might be nice to, but allow me to blow that proposal out of the water on the basis that hard drive wear occur primarily during startup/shutdown. I'd rather let mine run forever than subject it to that.

Hard drives die and need replacement. They're engineered to fail at the end of their warranty period.
Stop over-analyzing it. Just deal! (maybe I should say "Take a Chill pill", but I'm not THAT retro!)

Umm, but you MISS the point! The TiVo is NEVER inactive and always buffers the last 30 minutes of the channel (or inc ase of the S3, the TWO channels) it is tuned to. I (and I'm sure most other users) wouldn't have it any other way.If the TiVo is on, I agree with you.

If however the TiVo is in "Standby" mode, it's not actually recording anything and isn't even displaying a picture, so it should spin down the drive as well. Most PCs even do that these days to meet Energy Star requrements.

If the TiVo is on, I agree with you.

If however the TiVo is in "Standby" mode, it's not actually recording anything and isn't even displaying a picture, so it should spin down the drive as well. Most PCs even do that these days to meet Energy Star requrements.

The point here is that virtually no one that I know EVER puts their Tivo in standby mode. I never have...

If it does spin the drive down while it is in standby mode, does it restart every time it needs to record something in its schedule? Or is it even able to record in standby? If it can record while in standby by spinning up the drives every time it needs to record something, this would seem worse than leaving the Tivo ON all the time!

The point here is that virtually no one that I know EVER puts their Tivo in standby mode. I never have...



As an eight month Tivo owner, I do. Virtually every night. I just assumed that was the thing to do. I guess I should stop now. :o




If it does spin the drive down while it is in standby mode, does it restart every time it needs to record something in its schedule? Or is it even able to record in standby?

The Tivo does wake itself up to record a scheduled program from a state of being in standby. No prompting by the user is necessary. And if by "restart" you mean that whole long process of starting up and seeing the orange screen with the the "just a few more minutes" (sic) message, no, it doesn't have to go thru that each time.

The Tivo does wake itself up to record a scheduled program from a state of being in standby. No prompting by the user is necessary. And if by "restart" you mean that whole long process of starting up and seeing the orange screen with the the "just a few more minutes" (sic) message, no, it doesn't have to go thru that each time.

No, I wasn't referring to the boot process it goes through. I just meant "waking up" from standby mode. The question I have, now, is whether the hard drive stops spinning when the Tivo is in standby. If it does spin the drive down, it would have to spin it back up when something needs to be recorded. I still say this might be a worse situation than leaving it running 24/7 (and never using standby mode).

I don't know, but the tivo still makes a steady noise even in standby. Fan? Hard drive? both?

No, I wasn't referring to the boot process it goes through. I just meant "waking up" from standby mode. The question I have, now, is whether the hard drive stops spinning when the Tivo is in standby. If it does spin the drive down, it would have to spin it back up when something needs to be recorded. I still say this might be a worse situation than leaving it running 24/7 (and never using standby mode).

From the HORSE'S MOUTH (http://customersupport.tivo.com/TiVoCollection/1A9709D5-DB52-4CE6-98A8-F0DF0CEFF2B1/ins_Content.html) : the drive remains spinning.

All it does is shutdown the video output section and external lights. It may stop buffering video, but that's still not certain.

I can confirm that it doesn't stop buffering.

From the HORSE'S MOUTH (http://customersupport.tivo.com/TiVoCollection/1A9709D5-DB52-4CE6-98A8-F0DF0CEFF2B1/ins_Content.html) : the drive remains spinning.

All it does is shutdown the video output section and external lights. It may stop buffering video, but that's still not certain.

It seems like standby mode is basically pointless then!

EDIT: Other than the RF passthrough.

It seems like standby mode is basically pointless then!

EDIT: Other than the RF passthrough.

On some units, like the now-discontinued Toshiba/Humax/Pioneer DVD-recorder TiVos, and the Toshiba DVD player TiVo, if the program source in use is RF, the passthrough was always on. IIRC.

I don't know, but the tivo still makes a steady noise even in standby. Fan? Hard drive? both?Hard drive and fan.

I can't hear my HDD but my fan is a bit on the noisy side, thinking of replacing it when I upgrade for more storage after the first of the year.

Hello all

Long thread...interesting though.

I am getting a S3 for xmas next week and have already scheduled Comcast to install the two cable cards on 12/30.

I will be removing my loved series 2 and swapping in the S3

any advice on what I should do prior to comcast arriving?


Check out this post on the TiVo Community board.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4579717&&#post4579717

I don't know, but the tivo still makes a steady noise even in standby. Fan? Hard drive? both?I can't hear my HDD but my fan is a bit on the noisy side, thinking of replacing it when I upgrade for more storage after the first of the year.Hard drive and fan.Great... $800 for a box that comes with a noisy HDD & fan, sounds like the S3 is no better than my antiquated 4-year-old SA8300. :rolleyes:

Great... $800 for a box that comes with a noisy HDD & fan, sounds like the S3 is no better than my antiquated 4-year-old SA8300. :rolleyes:
You're full of it.

You're full of it.

Don't feed the trolls. :)

Don't feed the trolls. :)
Sorry, Paul. Sometimes I feel bad for the starving little fellers and try to throw them a crumb or two. I know, I know, it just ruins a good troll. I'll learn one day. :D

For whatever it's worth, my comments were in reference to start-up/standby functions of Tivo units in general, and in my particular case, the S2 version. I didn't think we were ONLY talking about S3 Tivos at that point of the thread discussion.

And besides, I never said that my Tivo was loud, per se, just that I could hear it making noise (at least from a few feet or closer). :)

Sorry, Paul. Sometimes I feel bad for the starving little fellers and try to throw them a crumb or two. I know, I know, it just ruins a good troll. I'll learn one day. :DHey... they made those comments about their S3s... I didn't. Don't shoot the messenger. :p

just understand that I am no longer in the "they" camp. :D

Has anyone successfully used the TiVo Series 3 through an HDMI switcher (or a receiver capable of HDMI switching)?

Has anyone successfully used the TiVo Series 3 through an HDMI switcher (or a receiver capable of HDMI switching)?

Absolutely. Many reports of Geffen, Octava and monoPrice switchers working flawlessly (I use a 5x1 monoPrice unit). And many folks have it working with no issues with their HDMI-switching HT receivers as well. As long as the switcher is good and the TV is good, teh S3 is great :)

Don't feed the trolls. :)
How can you tell which is which? :)

Great... $800 for a box that comes with a noisy HDD & fan, sounds like the S3 is no better than my antiquated 4-year-old SA8300. :rolleyes:Hmmm, where can I buy one of those wonderful SA8300s for my use?

My S3 TiVo is being used for OTA only, and frankly it's one of the few OTA ATSC recorders out there. There are PC and Mac-based solutions, but all would require the investment of more money up front than I'm paying for my S3 TiVo and subscription.

Hey... they made those comments about their S3s... I didn't. Don't shoot the messenger. :p
To be clear, my fan noise "complaint" is not as if it sounds like a wind tunnel, just that with dead silence in the room, which I like for listening to music, I can hear the fan, it's not obtrusive, but it does raise the noise floor somewhat. A simple swap for a lower noise fan will solve the problem, maybe $20 in cost.

To be clear, my fan noise "complaint" is not as if it sounds like a wind tunnel, just that with dead silence in the room, which I like for listening to music, I can hear the fan, it's not obtrusive, but it does raise the noise floor somewhat. A simple swap for a lower noise fan will solve the problem, maybe $20 in cost.Well given that $20 in parts cost usually means a $50 or so bump in retail price, and people are complaining now the S3 is too expensive, you can see why TiVo perhaps didn't use the quietest parts they possibly could.

You of course are free to try swapping fans as long as you realize your warranty will be toast.

Well given that $20 in parts cost usually means a $50 or so bump in retail price, and people are complaining now the S3 is too expensive, you can see why TiVo perhaps didn't use the quietest parts they possibly could.

You of course are free to try swapping fans as long as you realize your warranty will be toast.
I'm not too worried about the warranty, if something goes wrong, I'll just swap the original fan back into it if it becomes an issue. This is not something I'm hot to trot on, just something I've been considering, although moving all my equipment away from my viewing area is also being considered.

Hmmm, where can I buy one of those wonderful SA8300s for my use?You can't buy one, but you can rent an SA8300 from your favorite (sic) Cable provider. :) My S3 TiVo is being used for OTA only, and frankly it's one of the few OTA ATSC recorders out there. There are PC and Mac-based solutions, but all would require the investment of more money up front than I'm paying for my S3 TiVo and subscription.For those of us who cannot receive OTA signals and where our properties are nestled in a densely wooded terrain... antenna & satellite reception aren't an option. :( To be clear, my fan noise "complaint" is not as if it sounds like a wind tunnel, just that with dead silence in the room, which I like for listening to music, I can hear the fan, it's not obtrusive, but it does raise the noise floor somewhat. A simple swap for a lower noise fan will solve the problem, maybe $20 in cost.There is something about the concept of having to crack open the case of a brand new $800 box to replace a noisy fan that just doesn't seem right to me. :rolleyes:

There is something about the concept of having to crack open the case of a brand new $800 box to replace a noisy fan that just doesn't seem right to me. :rolleyes:
I agree, but to put it in perspective, the HDD noise on my Moto 6412 was louder than the fan in my S3. I doubt the fan noise would be an issue with 99% of S3 owners and I should probably have not even brought it up, I just like my equipment to be completely noise-free, which in many cases is an unreasonable quest to pursue.

The overall value of the S3 far,far, outweighs any issue I personally may have with the fan noise, it should not deter anyone from considering the unit, in fact, I've been thinking about getting a second one after seeing the price Dell was selling them at. I do think $800 is about $200 too much, but if you've been stuck with a cable supplied DVR for a long time, that $200 is easier to swallow.

If you are really worried about the noise the S3 is making, put it in the next room and get something like the Harmony 890 to control it using RF.

Of course you would need to drill a hole through the wall for the cables and lose the ability to see the front panel of the S3. Either of these could get you in trouble if you are married. :D

... and lose the ability to see the front panel of the S3....There's no loss there -- very little to see and, besides, it's too small to see it.

I don't need to see the front panel, ever, in fact I wish it would black out totally.

I just bought the house I've been living in, so alterations are in the future, like an equipment closet for example. ;)

The panel DOES blank out completely ... dig through the menus :)

You know, right after I posted that I thought I remembered something about blacking out the FPD I 'll have to check it in the AM. Do the transport control lights go out as well?

Yep, everything on the front panel can be turned off.

Yes, found that out this morning, looks much nicer now. :)

Anyone come up with a way to get stuff off the Series 3 HD yet?

I have to ask :D

Not as far as I know. I'm sure someone will figure it out someday.

There's no loss there -- very little to see and, besides, it's too small to see it.Personally, I really wish the clock and name of recording programs was as large and visible as it appears in the marketing mock-ups and S3 ads. :mad:

I can confirm that it doesn't stop buffering.
I have not tried this with my Series 3, but I had the Toshiba TiVo/DVD Player Series 2 in my bedroom. The hard disk drove me crazy. It made so much noise that I could not sleep. I discoverered that if I tuned the TiVo to Channel Zero, the buffering stopped and the noise from the hard drive stopped. Of course, you must turn off TiVo suggestions or else the unit will change from Channel Zero in the middle of the night. It also would change from Channel Zero to record TiVo's advertising.

Interesting. I don't have an S3 yet, but I just tried this on my S2, standard Tivo unit. The Tivo is not in standby mode, and I changed the channel to "0", yet, I can hear no change in sound. But mine doesn't make much noise to begin with. Maybe it has more to do with the fact that yours is a Toshiba, and mine isn't.

While I haven't posted enough times for this board to allow me to post links, I recommend everyone search WSJ for either Walt Mossberg or the story title "The HDTV Dilemma: Pay for TiVo's Recorder Or Settle for Cable's?" that just posted this (12/28) morning.

His final comment: "But, for now, the choice is tough. The Comcast high-definition DVR is a cheaper, but flawed product and the TiVo Series3 is an excellent, but overpriced one."

Happy New Year,

The overall value of the S3 far,far, outweighs any issue I personally may have with the fan noise, it should not deter anyone from considering the unit, in fact, I've been thinking about getting a second one after seeing the price Dell was selling them at. I do think $800 is about $200 too much, but if you've been stuck with a cable supplied DVR for a long time, that $200 is easier to swallow.

Check out costco-dot-com through January 2 -- they have the Series3 for $649.99. Perhaps you could beat that by calling Dell and giving them Costco's price. Dell has beat other prices for me in the past - and typically by a good margin.

I happened to get in on that Dell 15% deal a few days ago, so my S3 cost me $560 delivered. It's en route right now. :)

While I haven't posted enough times for this board to allow me to post links, I recommend everyone search WSJ for either Walt Mossberg or the story title "The HDTV Dilemma: Pay for TiVo's Recorder Or Settle for Cable's?" that just posted this (12/28) morning.

Here (http://ptech.wsj.com/ptech.html) you go.

While I haven't posted enough times for this board to allow me to post links, I recommend everyone search WSJ for either Walt Mossberg or the story title "The HDTV Dilemma: Pay for TiVo's Recorder Or Settle for Cable's?" that just posted this (12/28) morning.

His final comment: "But, for now, the choice is tough. The Comcast high-definition DVR is a cheaper, but flawed product and the TiVo Series3 is an excellent, but overpriced one."

Happy New Year,

Surprisingly balanced and well-reasoned. Presents the basic information in an unbiased fashion. Usually, this is the type of article that will shill for one side or the other, but not so here.

I ordered one from Abe's of Maine for $635 including shipping yesterday. I found Abe's using shopzilla. If you search for TCD648250B (the series 3's model number) at shopzilla, froogle, and cnet you'll find there are a lot of places that are selling it far below retail.

I just got a new Tivo Series 3 and am having problems connecting all of the HD inputs (Tivo, DVD player, and Xbox 360) I need to my tv. I have attached a picture of the back of my tv, as you can see I only have 1 component hd input. I thought about a manual input selector of some type to select which input I want but it will not work for the Tivo which must be connected at all times to record in HD. Looking for any help possible. Thanks for any help.

Here is the picture:

http://pictures.kyozou.com/pictures/_2/1751/1750001.jpg

I just got a new Tivo Series 3 and am having problems connecting all of the HD inputs (Tivo, DVD player, and Xbox 360) I need to my tv. I have attached a picture of the back of my tv, as you can see I only have 1 component hd input. I thought about a manual input selector of some type to select which input I want but it will not work for the Tivo which must be connected at all times to record in HD. Looking for any help possible. Thanks for any help.

A high bandwidth component switch should work just fine. They're available all over the place.

I'm not sure why you think the TiVo must be "connected at all times to record in HD" ? Just as long as it's powered up, and receiving a good cable feed, you should be good to go.

I just got a new Tivo Series 3 and am having problems connecting all of the HD inputs (Tivo, DVD player, and Xbox 360) I need to my tv. I have attached a picture of the back of my tv, as you can see I only have 1 component hd input. I thought about a manual input selector of some type to select which input I want but it will not work for the Tivo which must be connected at all times to record in HD. Looking for any help possible. Thanks for any help.
First off, you obviously have two component inputs. AV1 & AV4 both have the component inputs. You could connect Tivo to one and xbox360 to the other, and just use the xbox for dvd playback (my recommendation). or you can get a component splitter type box at ebgames or gamestop. They sell a box for connecting multiple game systems up to one tv and that will work fine. It's about $50 as i recall. The only problem is that you introduce some possible loss & noise injection in the splitter box, so I would only use that if I had too (and you don't).

Thanks for the comments, didnt even think about the fact that the S3 Tivo does not need to be displayed on the tv to record. What type of a switcher will minimize any loss of quality?

When I insert my Xbox 360 into AV 1 it displays fuzzy on the tv as the DVI input, I have to flip the switch on the cord of the 360 to TV to display it correctly but there is a noticible loss of quality.

Why are you not considering using AV 4 as mikedmeyer suggested? There's no need for a switch.

First off, you obviously have two component inputs. AV1 & AV4 both have the component inputs. You could connect Tivo to one and xbox360 to the other, and just use the xbox for dvd playback (my recommendation). or you can get a component splitter type box at ebgames or gamestop. They sell a box for connecting multiple game systems up to one tv and that will work fine. It's about $50 as i recall. The only problem is that you introduce some possible loss & noise injection in the splitter box, so I would only use that if I had too (and you don't).

Not necessarily. His set looks like it's been around for a while, like mine. My set has a set of components that only do 480i, and a set of components that can do 480p/600p/1080i. I suspect he's in the same boat, based upon the grouping of the inputs.

Just scanning the thread...
It looks like he has an early generation HD ready TV (Mitsuishi?).
AV1 is for a DVD player and only supports up to 480p
AV4 is for HD sources up to 1080i either through component or RGBHV (VGA)
He has two 1080i sources, the Tivo and his Xbox360, thus he needs an external switch to see both at high resolution.


vegggas

Just scanning the thread...
It looks like he has an early generation HD ready TV (Mitsuishi?).
AV1 is for a DVD player and only supports up to 480p
AV4 is for HD sources up to 1080i either through component or RGBHV (VGA)
He has two 1080i sources, the Tivo and his Xbox360, thus he needs an external switch to see both at high resolution.


vegggas


You are exactly right, it is one of the earlier Philips HD tvs.

You are exactly right, it is one of the earlier Philips HD tvs.

Thought it looked familiar. I also have a Philips HD set. :)

You're going to have to get an AV switch in order to serve 1080i from multiple sources to your set.

Thought it looked familiar. I also have a Philips HD set. :)

You're going to have to get an AV switch in order to serve 1080i from multiple sources to your set.

Any advice on one brand or the other?

Any advice on one brand or the other?

I don't have any experience with any of them, since I use a video scaler to serve double-duty as my video switch.

monoprice.com gets high marks for the quality of their cables and HDMI switches, so I would guess that their component switch must be decent as well. Plus, it's only $35 or so. HERE (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10112&cs_id=1011201&p_id=3027&seq=1&format=2&style=) it is.

I also have no experience with them (my AV receiver handles it). I'd look at the JVC JX-66 if you want more of a "name-brand" solution. about $50.

I also have no experience with them (my AV receiver handles it). I'd look at the JVC JX-66 if you want more of a "name-brand" solution. about $50.

The monoprice.com one is remote controlled, BTW.

I used this one from AVToolbox: http://avtoolbox.com/avt5842.shtml and it worked flawlessly, but if Monoprice has one for $35, that's what I'd get. I haven't heard anything bad about any of their products yet. Nothing fancy, they just work, work well, and are cheap. Can't beat that.

The monoprice.com one is remote controlled, BTW.
Remote control is definitely an advantage. They're only $30; try it out and see. I've been leery of all such low cost switchers since I tried a Belkin switch to connect two computers to the same monitor, mouse & keyboard. It was crap. All kinds of ghosting on the monitor that you didn't get when it was plugged straight in to either computer. Apples and Oranges, I know, but I'd be afraid of a similar result. (It's not like having the JVC name would make that switch immune to the same problems, though).

I used this one from AVToolbox: http://avtoolbox.com/avt5842.shtml and it worked flawlessly, but if Monoprice has one for $35, that's what I'd get. I haven't heard anything bad about any of their products yet. Nothing fancy, they just work, work well, and are cheap. Can't beat that.

That's a matrix switcher, right ? 4 inputs and 2 outputs ?

What about your home theater receiver? My Onkyo has component video switching capabilities.

EDIT: I see mikedmeyer mentioned this, too.

I happened to get in on that Dell 15% deal a few days ago, so my S3 cost me $560 delivered. It's en route right now. :)

THANKS so much for the gratuitous "hey! na! na!" look at lucky-me post. I got something for your sun-don't-shine area right here, you lucky bastard. :mad:




:p

THANKS so much for the gratuitous "hey! na! na!" look at lucky-me post. I got something for your sun-don't-shine area right here, you lucky bastard. :mad:




:p


:)

Don't feel taunted yet. There were a bunch of people who ordered from Dell before the window closed, and the results have been mixed to say the least. Some folks got theirs immediately, some folks had their orders CANCELLED by Dell without reason, and some orders were perpetually listed with the mysterious tag "In Production".

Phoning Dell was less than informative. CSR roulette. Call up once and get "it's gonna ship today". Call up again and get "it'll ship on 1/3". Call again, and get "it might take until March".

My order supposedly shipped yesterday, but I'm not counting my chickens until I see that box on my doorstep.

Once I get my box, then I'll come back and rub it in, OK ? :) :) :)

That's a matrix switcher, right ? 4 inputs and 2 outputs ?
Yup, needed 2 outs, one for plasma, one for projector. I know he doesn't need matrix, just wanted to point out that the AVToolbox products seemed to work very well.

fine. I'll keep my bitterness on ice until then. ;)

:)

Don't feel taunted yet. There were a bunch of people who ordered from Dell before the window closed, and the results have been mixed to say the least. Some folks got theirs immediately, some folks had their orders CANCELLED by Dell without reason, and some orders were perpetually listed with the mysterious tag "In Production".

Phoning Dell was less than informative. CSR roulette. Call up once and get "it's gonna ship today". Call up again and get "it'll ship on 1/3". Call again, and get "it might take until March".

My order supposedly shipped yesterday, but I'm not counting my chickens until I see that box on my doorstep.

Once I get my box, then I'll come back and rub it in, OK ? :) :) :)Dude... you've been Dell'ed. :p

Dude... you've been Dell'ed. :p

Oh wait.... It gets better...

My S3 is currently sitting in a DHL shipping facility which is a 20 minute drive away. I called DHL up to see if I could swing by and pick it up myself. The CSR said that since it was a Dell package, I could only pick it up if they had attempted a delivery first (trucks rolled at 9AM and my S3 wasn't on board) or if Dell filled out some form and sent it to DHL allowing them to allow me to pick it up (which takes about 24 hours). So, my S3 will be sitting in the shipping facility for 3-4 days due to the holidays, since the red tape prevents me from picking it up. ARGH! :(

Oh wait.... It gets better...

My S3 is currently sitting in a DHL shipping facility which is a 20 minute drive away. I called DHL up to see if I could swing by and pick it up myself. The CSR said that since it was a Dell package, I could only pick it up if they had attempted a delivery first (trucks rolled at 9AM and my S3 wasn't on board) or if Dell filled out some form and sent it to DHL allowing them to allow me to pick it up (which takes about 24 hours). So, my S3 will be sitting in the shipping facility for 3-4 days due to the holidays, since the red tape prevents me from picking it up. ARGH! :(Believe me, it'll be worth the wait! (but I definitely feel your pain -- I ordered mine from CC the day they were released and, when they tried to deliver it, no one was home, so I had to wait another DAY before I received it -- one of the most painful 24 hours I've ever experienced!).

Ordered my S3 from Tivo Community Monday and have it today - Comcast will be out here next Wed with the CCs :D

Any reason I can't hook it up through my existing cable box now and use it? Kinda like to load the guide and fiddle with it before Comcast shows up. I also didn't know I could stream music from my PC through it - sweet!

Now I gotta watch all the crap still on my soon-to-be-retired S1.


Oh, one quick Q - is there any advantage to using the optical audio out? My HDTV is older and will be using Component for the video side, if I don't need a new cable for the audio portion, great - if I'm going to be missing out on something then I'll spend the couple of bucks.


Thanks and Happy NYE!

Now I gotta watch all the crap still on my soon-to-be-retired S1.

You are aware that certain models of S1s, ones that shipped with 1.3 software (doesn't have to remain @ 1.3), can be used for setting up manual recordings, like a dumb VCR, right?

If you're gonna go HD you should consider keeping the S1 for SD shows you still watch.

I hadn't considered that. I believe mine can be set to manual recording. Are you suggesting using the S1 to conserve space on my S3? I've heard the S3 has overall better PQ and that is one reason I bought it. My older HDTV offers no upconversion so I was planning on using the S3's as well assuming it looks good.

It looks like in the manual I will need to get a optical cable so I can receive the DD soundtracks. Bummer that Tivo includes every possible connection, even a phone splitter, but not that one.

Any reason I can't hook it up through my existing cable box now and use it? Kinda like to load the guide and fiddle with it before Comcast shows up.

Oh, one quick Q - is there any advantage to using the optical audio out? My HDTV is older and will be using Component for the video side, if I don't need a new cable for the audio portion, great - if I'm going to be missing out on something then I'll spend the couple of bucks.


Thanks and Happy NYE!

Read the TiVo S3 FAQ on the tivocommunity forums. The S3 has NOTHING to dow ith any other boxes (cable or satellite). you can connect the incoming cable directly to it, it will tune all unecrypted NTSC cable cahnnels as wella s digital channels, including HDs. Also connect an antenna to the antenna input and tune whatever channels (analog and digital, including HD) that you can pick up.

As for audio, if not optical, what WERE you planning to use? Red/White RCA? If your TV has an optical input use an Optical cable. Optimally, set up a Home Theater system to enjoy multichannel sound (on channels that include it). With red/white, you ONLY get an analog version of the sound, only in stereo.

Ah, then optical it is - I have a fairly decent AVR (HK 635) that handles all the i/o duties. I didn't realize I would not get surround sound using the RCAs.

No antenna. Sounds like I'll just wait for the CCs to get installed.


I'll go read the FAQ too :)

Remote control is definitely an advantage. They're only $30; try it out and see. I've been leery of all such low cost switchers since I tried a Belkin switch to connect two computers to the same monitor, mouse & keyboard. It was crap. All kinds of ghosting on the monitor that you didn't get when it was plugged straight in to either computer. Apples and Oranges, I know, but I'd be afraid of a similar result. (It's not like having the JVC name would make that switch immune to the same problems, though).


Thanks for the info. I ended up getting an RCA component switcher, both S3 and Xbox 360 work perfectly , the only problem I have now is when I hook my DVD player (in progressive mode) to the switcher the following occurs:

The generic sony screen comes up on the screen fine, once it begins to read the DVD it begins to distort the picture. It will be clear for about 5 seconds then I see some noise on the picture and it distorts then flickers back to a clear picture, the tv then flashes Input 1 480p in the corner for a moment after flickering back. The DVD player in progressive mode works just fine when plugged directly into the tv. I am not sure what would be the cause of this noise. Any suggestions, below is the a link to the switcher. Thanks.

http://www.amazon.com/RCA-COMPONENT-VIDEO-SWITCHER/dp/B000FCT2CK/sr=1-1/qid=1167488348/ref=sr_1_1/104-7471380-2344746?ie=UTF8&s=electronics

Thanks for the info. I ended up getting an RCA component switcher, both S3 and Xbox 360 work perfectly , the only problem I have now is when I hook my DVD player (in progressive mode) to the switcher the following occurs:

The generic sony screen comes up on the screen fine, once it begins to read the DVD it begins to distort the picture. It will be clear for about 5 seconds then I see some noise on the picture and it distorts then flickers back to a clear picture, the tv then flashes Input 1 480p in the corner for a moment after flickering back. The DVD player in progressive mode works just fine when plugged directly into the tv. I am not sure what would be the cause of this noise. Any suggestions, below is the a link to the switcher. Thanks.

http://www.amazon.com/RCA-COMPONENT-VIDEO-SWITCHER/dp/B000FCT2CK/sr=1-1/qid=1167488348/ref=sr_1_1/104-7471380-2344746?ie=UTF8&s=electronics
Interesting. The first thing I notice about that situation is that the S3 and the 360 are both hi-def, while the DVD is only 480p. Might be a problem with that mode. Try playing a DVD in the 360. The 360 does not upconvert DVDs over component, so I believe the resolution on your 360 will jump down to 480p when a DVD is played. If the 360 has a problem in DVD playback, then voila, it's definitely a 480p problem (in other words, your RCA switcher has a problem with 480p).

You might check and make sure the DVD player cable are correctly connected at the switcher or try a different input. A switcher shouldn't care about 480p if it has the the bandwidth to pass HD.

A COMMENT AND TWO QUESTIONS:

I ordered an S3 from an outfit called, “PageComputers.com” this afternoon for $629.86, delivered. That’s not nearly as good a price as some have found but it beats $800, and I can now transfer my lifetime contract on my old S1 to my new S3 for $200.

The primary reason for this post is to ask two questions: (1) what kind of cable do I need and (2) what kind of switcher should I buy to connect to my HDTV and switch between signals from the S3 and a Momitsu upconverting DVD player?

The S3 has an HDMI out port, or course, but my TV, a three-year-old RCA HDLP50W151, has a single DVI in port, although it is HDCP compliant. The Momitsu DVD player is also DVI only.

What combination of cables and switcher should I buy? I don’t want to spend more than about $30 each for 10 foot cables and $150 for a switcher. Does anybody sell cables and switchers in this price range? If so, I would be eternally grateful for any advice anyone might give me on this score.

NOTE: I have repeatedly posted that I was not yet ready to buy an S3 for a bunch of reasons. Nevertheless, today, as TiVo’s offer to allow me to transfer my old lifetime S1 subscription to an S3 was about to expire, I changed my mind and ordered an S3. What can I say? A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. :)

You might check and make sure the DVD player cable are correctly connected at the switcher or try a different input. A switcher shouldn't care about 480p if it has the the bandwidth to pass HD.


The DVD works fine on the Xbox and the DVD player still has the same problem on other inputs. I still have no idea how the noise is being introduced.

A COMMENT AND TWO QUESTIONS:

Nevertheless, today, as TiVo’s offer to allow me to transfer my old lifetime S1 subscription to an S3 was about to expire, I changed my mind and ordered an S3. What can I say? A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds. :)

actually, it appears that as long as you aren't purchasing direct from Tivo, it matters not at all if you purchase the S3 before the end of the month/year, as they have no way of verifying when you purchased your unit.. you just have to make sure you've done the lifetime transfer by the end of January date.

The original "Dec 31st purchase" stipulation was instituted when their policy for lifetime transfer applied only to purchases made directly from them. Once they ammended it and allowed the transfer even if purchasing from other vendors, the purchase date part of the rule went out the window.

But given that this is still only vaguely official and therefore I am only 80% confident in my statement, it's still probably a good idea you ordered now! {if applicable, re-insert hobgoblin quote here} :D

The DVD works fine on the Xbox and the DVD player still has the same problem on other inputs. I still have no idea how the noise is being introduced.
Sorry but no other ideas. I use a Key Digital switcher to switch component outputs between the S3 Tivo, a 480p DVD player and the output of a D-VHS player without issue so it is possible.

A COMMENT AND TWO QUESTIONS:

I ordered an S3 from an outfit called, “PageComputers.com” this afternoon for $629.86, delivered.


You may have better luck than others, but there have been a LOT of complaints about that site pulling "bait and switch" tactics after customers place orders.

If you haven't gotten it yet, you might want to read these reviews:

http://www.pricegrabber.com/rating_getreview.php/r=386

As I said, you may have better luck, but when I read your post, that company name rang a bell in my mind...

Good luck!

The primary reason for this post is to ask two questions: (1) what kind of cable do I need and (2) what kind of switcher should I buy to connect to my HDTV and switch between signals from the S3 and a Momitsu upconverting DVD player?

The S3 has an HDMI out port, or course, but my TV, a three-year-old RCA HDLP50W151, has a single DVI in port, although it is HDCP compliant. The Momitsu DVD player is also DVI only.

What combination of cables and switcher should I buy? I don’t want to spend more than about $30 each for 10 foot cables and $150 for a switcher. Does anybody sell cables and switchers in this price range? If so, I would be eternally grateful for any advice anyone might give me on this score.


Since DVI and HDMI are very closely related, your request is fairly simple. Monoprice.com is a source of quality cables and switches that's been getting a lot of positive reviews lately.

Remoted controlled 5x1 HDMI switch (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=2777&seq=1&format=2&style=) (note:sold out until 1/5/2007) $120
10' HDMI cable (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024002&p_id=2281&seq=1&format=2&style=) to connect the TiVo to the switch $20
10' HDMI-DVI cable (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10231&cs_id=1023102&p_id=2284&seq=1&format=2&style=) Two of these, one to connect the Momitsu to the switch, and one to connect the switch to the display. 2 x $18 = $36

Total : $176 + shipping

Just wanted to say I got some VERY inexpensive, but decent looking, toslink cables from monoprice. $4ea. I stopped by CCity today and the cheapest ones they had were $25.

Now I just need to xfer my lifetime, figure I'll wait until Comcast comes and hooks the CCs up.

Since DVI and HDMI are very closely related, your request is fairly simple. Monoprice.com is a source of quality cables and switches that's been getting a lot of positive reviews lately.

Remoted controlled 5x1 HDMI switch (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=2777&seq=1&format=2&style=) (note:sold out until 1/5/2007) $120
10' HDMI cable (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024002&p_id=2281&seq=1&format=2&style=) to connect the TiVo to the switch $20
10' HDMI-DVI cable (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10231&cs_id=1023102&p_id=2284&seq=1&format=2&style=) Two of these, one to connect the Momitsu to the switch, and one to connect the switch to the display. 2 x $18 = $36

Total : $176 + shipping
Thanks. Someone else had told me about monoprice.com and I ordered a 2X1 remote controlled HDMI switch, a 10’ and a 3’ HDMI cable, and a 3’ HDMI to DVI cable from them, for a total of $82.17. If all of that works as I hope, then all I will have left to do after my S3 arrives is to have Cox install the Cable CARDs and get TiVo to transfer the lifetime subscription on my S1 to my new S3.

For reference I live in Jeffersonville Indiana in Zip Code 47130 just across the river from Louisville Kentucky. If I'm posting in the wrong thread, please point me to where I should post this question. I'm a novice when it comes to message board and forum posting. Thanks!

I'm seeking advice on how to get unencrypted local network HD digital channels (ABC, NBC, FOX, CW, CBS) from the analog basic cable in from the wall using TiVo Series 3's QAM tunning capability.

I'm able to get these channels as a -cable- signal: CBS Channel 32.1, Fox 41.1, CW 34.1. Frustratingly, I still can't get NBC 3.1 (WAVE 3) and ABC 11.1 (WHAS 11) as a cable signal. I feel like I'm so close to saving $60 bucks a month on an unnessecary cable bill but I can't get the Series 3 TiVo to tune HD versions of NBC and ABC through my cable from the wall.

I have tried mannually punching in 3-1 and 11-1 on the TiVo remote with each of the following set up changes and still no luck.

In reading other message boards it was also suggested I tried a signal amplifier and that did not work. The other suggestion I read was to try using a 2 way splitter and spilt the cable from the wall and put one end in the -antenna in- of Series 3 and one in the -cable in- of the series 3. Desperate to get this to work I tried that and it did not work either.

I also tried re-running -Guided Setup- as -cable only-, then -cable and antenna- and about 5 or 6 times and also re-running -Channel Scans- 5 or 6 times and nothing helps bring in NBC and ABC through the cable line. With each setup change I've tried to find 11.1 and 3.1 in the channel list as -cable- signal but no luck.

I even tried 906 and 908 which is the channels that bring in the HD versions of our local NBC and ABC affliates on the Digital Cable Pack but that didn't work either.

I called TiVo tech support and of course they were of no help at all. The rep. suggested I try changing the cables I use for Series 3 to the TV. ?!? I knew that wouldn't help but I tried it anyway and changed from HDMI to Componet and of course that didn't help at all. Again, I'm so desperate to get this work that I'm trying anything. The other thing the TiVo Tech. Support person said was that with my setup and zip code, channel line up TiVo is viewing 3.1 and 11.1 as an atenna channels. I asked her if there's a way to force TiVo to look for 3.1 as a cable signal and she said she was not aware of how to do that.


A side note, my big screen TV is HD capable but did not included an integrated ATSC tuner. So before I bought the Series 3 I bought the new Samsung set-top HD tuner that has an unencrypted QAM tuner. It was about $200.00 With the Samsung, I was easily able to tune in the HD versions of NBC and ABC (3.1 and 11.1) through just the basic cable line and it worked great! I'm amazed that a $200 set top box was capable of doing more than the $800 retail TiVo Series 3! I was really happy with the Samsung unit but I returned it because I missed having TiVo and being able to record a show and come back to watch it later at my convienance. I'm not always home with my shows are on. So I returned the Samsung and decided to bite the bullet and get the Series 3 TiVo.

I tried typing in 55.1 for WHAS and each time I do the TiVo changes it to 11.1 which is of course the antenna signal that drops out.

I am only 8 miles from the broadcast towers and all the stations on in the UHF range with less than a 10 degree directional difference...so one would think I should just buy an over the air antenna for those channels. I've now bought and tried 3 different Over The Air ATSC antennas including an RCA with a 45 db amplifier, one without an amp and a Silver Sensor antenna that everyone says is tops for OTA HD ATSC. All three will bring in HD versions of NBC and ABC with the Series 3 but the picture drops in and out, I get pixelation and the audio drops in and out.

I can't tell you all how frustrated I am. I've spent hours and hours trying to make this work so I don't end up paying the cable company thousands of dollars when I mainly only watch netowrk TV and all I want is do is be able to watch the HD broadcasts of my favorite network shows and record them with series 3. If you all have any other ideas, I would be so extremely grateful. I've be willing to pay someone if they can help me fix this. THANK YOU!

Have a good day.

Sincerely,
Determined To Try To Get This To Work in Jeffersonville!
Brad

Brad,

Sound strange that you're have so much a problem tuning in your OTAs.

At the risk of sounding rude, verify that the antenna coax is going into the right connection in the back of the S3. Also, find your way to the antenna signal strength menu and be sure that you don't have to turn your antenna slighly to maximize the signal. Antennas generally have an irregular reception pattern and it may be that you need to turn it slightly.

Brad, nobody can tell the cable companies which channel to assign to their unencrypted HD broadcasts. Perhaps the problem is the fact that there's interference between the antenna source and the cable assignment (3.1 and 11.1)?

You may want to post this over on the tivocommunity forum instead, a larger audience some of whom might have observed this.

If all else fails, and my above assumption about shared assignemtns is inaccurate, assume the S3 is faulty, exchange it and give it a shot. If I'm right, though - try calling the cable company and requesting they move the assignments around - you never know, they might agree!

As for the antenna pickup prblems, that is odd. My Silver Sensor (clone) effortlessly picks up all the primary HD locals at 80-90% and higher signal strength from 30+ miles out, and it only sits in a second floor window! You DO realize antennas like this are VERY directional, right? Have you confirmed your orientation from antennaweb.org?

Good luck ... look forward to more useful suggestions on TCF!

Brad,

Another possibility. I know that my house has something in the walls that blocks OTA broadcasts.

With an indoor antenna pointed directly at a window, I could receive broadcasts from the community tower where the CBS, ABC and NBC antennas were located, but could not receive FOX, which is located on their own tower about 2 degrees from the community tower.

Since I am about 5 miles from the towers, an indoor antenna should have received them all with no problems. Of course, in my area FOX broadcasts at a much lower strength signal than the others, so this may have been my problem.

I installed an outdoor antenna, which allowed me to receive FOX and get a much higher quality signal from the others.

You might want to just try to run a longer cable to your indoor cable and stick it outside your window as an experiment. If it gets your missing stations, an outdoor antenna may be your best option.

A funny thing that happened when I called Tivo to transfer lifetime service from my old S2 to the new S3. I called a couple of days after Xmas and the phonelines were swamped -- probably waited 20 minutes to talk to a customer service rep. When I finally did get one on the line, it was obvious that she was new to her job. I told her I wanted to transfer my lifetime service, and she started fumbling through the procedure. By mistake, she asked me for my NEW service number first, and over-wrote the old S2 number in my account info. She realized she goofed something up, and then re-started the proceedure, asking for my old service number -- but of course when she enters it, it's no longer in the system. She then ask for my new number. She enters it, then says "Hmm, looks like this unit already has lifetime service." Duh -- YOU just entered it! At this point she was totally baffled and put me on hold. After a few minutes I hung up and checked my account on-line and on my new S3 -- sure enough I have Lifetime service and NO $199 charge. Of course, also no service on the old box.

As for PageComputers... I ordered my S3 on 12/23 and got it on 12/27 -- not bad. I was bummed out about missing the Dell deal, but not so much now that I've read of others bad experiences.

You may have better luck than others, but there have been a LOT of complaints about that site pulling "bait and switch" tactics after customers place orders.

If you haven't gotten it yet, you might want to read these reviews:

http://www.pricegrabber.com/rating_getreview.php/r=386

As I said, you may have better luck, but when I read your post, that company name rang a bell in my mind...

Good luck!

Good for you, Cornell :)

You do realize a lot of folks will call in and start asking for this now, right? :D Or hoping to get this rep!

Annoying TiVo feature:

Program "A" is to be recorded, as is program "B".

Program "B" is on immediately after program "A" and on the same channel.

TiVo will start recording Program B using the alternate tuner when it could use the same tuner for both "A" and "B" and simply split the two programs.

So for example, if I have season passes set up for CSI, Shark and ER, it's not smart enough to record CSI and Shark using one tuner and ER using the other, but insists on recording the two CBS shows using one tuner each and won't start ER until CSI completes on the first tuner. :(

This is only a 'problem' if you're simultaneously planning on using the spare tuner for live viewing.

Why? Nothing in your Now Playing List? :)

This is only a 'problem' if you're simultaneously planning on using the spare tuner for live viewing.

Why? Nothing in your Now Playing List? :)

LOL! Yeah... Who watches live TV anymore?? Not Me!!!

But it does seem strange... It should be smarter than that.

Annoying TiVo feature:

Program "A" is to be recorded, as is program "B".

Program "B" is on immediately after program "A" and on the same channel.

TiVo will start recording Program B using the alternate tuner when it could use the same tuner for both "A" and "B" and simply split the two programs.

So for example, if I have season passes set up for CSI, Shark and ER, it's not smart enough to record CSI and Shark using one tuner and ER using the other, but insists on recording the two CBS shows using one tuner each and won't start ER until CSI completes on the first tuner. :(
Are you sure this hasn't something to do with the fact that "ER" starts early by 1 minute, at 9:59pm(it's earlier or later-I don't recall which) which means the S3 will want to start ER before its starts Shark....maybe, I don't know. As long as it gets everything it works for me, I don't watch anything live anyways.

Annoying TiVo feature:

Program "A" is to be recorded, as is program "B".

Program "B" is on immediately after program "A" and on the same channel.

TiVo will start recording Program B using the alternate tuner when it could use the same tuner for both "A" and "B" and simply split the two programs.

So for example, if I have season passes set up for CSI, Shark and ER, it's not smart enough to record CSI and Shark using one tuner and ER using the other, but insists on recording the two CBS shows using one tuner each and won't start ER until CSI completes on the first tuner. :(What freakin' difference does it make as long as the shows are recorded?

Are you sure this hasn't something to do with the fact that "ER" starts early by 1 minute, at 9:59pm(it's earlier or later-I don't recall which) which means the S3 will want to start ER before its starts Shark....maybe, I don't know. As long as it gets everything it works for me, I don't watch anything live anyways.


Actually, getting technical:

CSI 8-9:01 (even 9:02 sometimes)
Shark 9:01-10:00 (again, 9:02 sometimes)
ER 8:59-10:00.

This is MST, since the OP is in CO.

CBS is making CSI longer because they can sell commercials for more $$ than in Shark.
NBC is doing the same with ER.

Still doesn't address the fact that the TiVo isn't smart enough to know that 2 of the programs are on the same channel.


phox

What freakin' difference does it make as long as the shows are recorded?

If you were time-shifting and watching something live on an unused tuner as one show initially recorded, and assumed you'd be able to continue watching it because the Tivo should be smart enough to record the ensuing show on the currently recorded channel on the same tuner currently busy recording on that channel, you would be hopping mad. Especially if you were about to watch the Irish get a well-deserved whooping by a substantially better team :) So I can totally see where this complaint is coming from (my jokes about Live TV notwithstanding)!

What freakin' difference does it make as long as the shows are recorded?I've got CSI and Shark set to pad recording before and after, which means that the TiVo can't start recording ER until CSI ends. This often means missing the first minute or two of ER because the TiVo is busy recording the same channel (CBS) using both tuners, when if it had the proper logic it would know it could record the CBS content from a single tuner and use the other for ER.

(Example: Here in Denver, CSI has run until 9:01 or 9:02 on KCNC when KUSA started ER at 8:59 or so. You do the program math. :D)

I've got CSI and Shark set to pad recording before and after, which means that the TiVo can't start recording ER until CSI ends. This often means missing the first minute or two of ER because the TiVo is busy recording the same channel (CBS) using both tuners, when if it had the proper logic it would know it could record the CBS content from a single tuner and use the other for ER.

Well, there's your problem. If you've padded them both front and back, they're no longer sequential programs. They're conflicting programs, and that require both tuners in order to record 'em both.

Now, the only way that TiVo could be smarter about this is if it did indeed detect that both programs were on the same channel, and made some kind of decision to clip the lower priority program such that they were indeed sequential. Then again, that would be against your explicit wishes, since you've manually padded the programs for some reason.

I think the underlying assumption by TiVo is that it's safer to honor the user's wishes, rather than to go on its own, start clipping programs in order to free up a tuner for whatever other reason exists.

Well, there's your problem. If you've padded them both front and back, they're no longer sequential programs. They're conflicting programs, and that require both tuners in order to record 'em both...Exactly....eliminate the padding.

Ha, and I thought the TiVo software/tuner logic was flawed :)

padding has extended each show's desired record duration and forced an overlap.

Verdict: User Error!

I think the underlying assumption by TiVo is that it's safer to honor the user's wishes, rather than to go on its own, start clipping programs in order to free up a tuner for whatever other reason exists.
Well, a clever product manager could have designed this feature such that the padding was "virtual" in this case and the device never had to swap the tuner. However, such clever product managers are rare and most of them work for Apple!

Well, a clever product manager could have designed this feature such that the padding was "virtual" in this case and the device never had to swap the tuner. However, such clever product managers are rare and most of them work for Apple!

Ummm.... Yeah, OK. It's just about noon, so I guess it's OK to be drinking now. :)

Or, the user could simply realize that the guide data is correct 99.99% of the time and not monkey around with the padding to begin with. Once you start throwing "virtual" configurations and operations around, you're going to confuse most of the users you're trying to help along.

The only times I use padding are for live sports and when a channel's clock doesn't jive with real time (i.e. shows consistently start a few minutes before/after they're supposed to). Other than that, I don't find much need to futz with the record times.

BTW, Google might want to argue your other claims to where the clever folks are ending up.

The only times I use padding are for live sports and when a channel's clock doesn't jive with real time (i.e. shows consistently start a few minutes before/after they're supposed to).

My biggest concern about recording live sports on TiVo is that the game either starts late (i.e., another game immediately before it ran late) or it ends late (i.e., extra innings, overtime). Since I can't control the late starts, I tell the TiVo to add at least an hour to the end of the programmed time slot, just so that I don't miss the end of the game. That's happened to me before, and I can tell you there is nothing more depressing to a true sports fan than to watch 98% of a very close game and then have the recording stop!

Fortunately, most close games are reported upon in excruciating detail (especially the last moments) by every news source (including Sports TV programs etc).

But, yeah - padding for live events is complicated. Hopefully the folks at TiVo'll come up with something to gget around this - but short of going on and on recording, nothing can guarantee you get the whole show!

One thing I often do, especially for live HD events (because of the massive space requirement) is to create a manual recording (including end padding leeway) in one hour chunks, so I can delete each chunk as I watch it, freeing up space.

Yes, my TiVos (including the new S3) are always filled to capacity :)

Fortunately, most close games are reported upon in excruciating detail (especially the last moments) by every news source (including Sports TV programs etc).

Ha! That word that you used... "most"... did not, unfortunately, cover my situation (unranked college team, completely different conference than my viewing area). Didn't even make ESPN's highlights. Yeah, I eventually read the final score on Internet post-game reports, but it's just not the same as watching the final seconds of double overtime on the big screen!

Ummm.... Yeah, OK. It's just about noon, so I guess it's OK to be drinking now. :)

Or, the user could simply realize that the guide data is correct 99.99% of the time and not monkey around with the padding to begin with. Once you start throwing "virtual" configurations and operations around, you're going to confuse most of the users you're trying to help along.

The only times I use padding are for live sports and when a channel's clock doesn't jive with real time (i.e. shows consistently start a few minutes before/after they're supposed to). Other than that, I don't find much need to futz with the record times.

BTW, Google might want to argue your other claims to where the clever folks are ending up.

Right it's 5:00 pm somewhere

First, thanks to all of you who responded to the questions I asked earlier in this thread.

Second a comment about Page Computer. My order fell through because there representation that they had S3s in stock turned out to be untrue. Worse, when you call them, they have a prerecorded message that because of “computer problems” they can’t take telephone orders “at this time.” I finally ordered an S3 through Amazon but, as they were out of stock, too, they filled my order through an outfit called GPS & Navigation. I had to pay an extra $52 but they told me on the phone yesterday that my order had shipped and should be here by next Wednesday or Thursday.

Third, a question that I posted over at the TiVo Forum. I have a 50” RCA DLP HDTV, which I bought in 2003, an HDLP50W151, I bought the switch and a couple of DVI to HDMI cables in order to connect my new S3 to my TV. The S3 requires HDMI but the RCA takes only DVI. In the event, I am going to have to return all of it because the RCA is apparently not HDCP compliant, which is a copy protection scheme for HD content.

I tried but failed to get the HDMI/DVI switch to work. Then, as a test, I connected the HDMI end of an HDMI to DVI cable I had bought to my Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR and the DVI end to my TV. This caused the 8300HD to display an error message that the DVI connection was not HDCP compliant and that I should disconnect the HDMI connection from the 8300HD and reconnect it to the TV via a component (three wire) connection. Too bad, but there it is. Is there any possibility that the error message from the 8300HD could have been caused by a configuration error? It had been my understanding that the DVI connection on my RCA was HDCP 1.0 compliant. Is there anything I can do to make my RCA’s DVI connection work with more modern HDMI gear, such as an S3 or an HD disk player?

gwsat,

Things may not be as grim as they sound.

In 2003, some of the DVI connections only carried the digital signal to an analog converter, then it was analog the rest of the way. By comparison component cable, didn't show any difference in picture quality.

In any event, you can try HDMI and if that doesn't work, then use component. If HDMI does work, do take note about your black levels as in some applications a HDMI/DVI conversion will shift them. Worst that can happen is you send the S3 back (hope you have a good return policy) or even worst, have a really good excuse to buy a new display.

In any event, you can try HDMI and if that doesn't work, then use component. If HDMI does work, do take note about your black levels as in some applications a HDMI/DVI conversion will shift them. Worst that can happen is you send the S3 back (hope you have a good return policy) or even worst, have a really good excuse to buy a new display.

If the display doesn't support HDCP on the DVI interface, he's not going to be able hook up any current HDMI gear to it. The copy protection will detect the disparity in protection levels and lock down the display.

Time for a new display, or cut over to component cables.

Jim and Paul – Thanks for the advice. It’s going to be pretty easy, I think. Based on your posts and others elsewhere I am satisfied that the S3’s PQ will not be hurt by using a component connection. In fact, my current DVR, an SA 8300HD, is connected that way. I am simply going to write off the switcher as a bad experiment and send it back to Monoprice for credit because it’s now clear that my old RCA HDTV won’t accept HDMI input, even with an HDMI to DVI cable. Sometimes being an early adapter sucks.

Or, the user could simply realize that the guide data is correct 99.99% of the time and not monkey around with the padding to begin with. Ha!

I pad the shows because if I don't, I don't see the beginning or end of the shows. It's that way with any recorded suggestions. :(

(Here in the Denver area, because all prime time programming is replayed from servers, the local stations like to start at least a minute early and end a minute late, so despite the fact that TiVo says a program starts at 7:00 PM, it really starts at 6:59. Likewise, programs that are to end at the top of the hour often run past so the local affiliate can insert an extra ad or two. So for example, even though I told my S3 to start recording Rudolph a minute early, the recording still started around 30 secnds after the program had begun.)

As far as the overlap goes, yes, it's one "if" statement to see that the two scheduled programs are on the same channel and to use the same tuner for it. (The only possible glitch is if the TiVo lacks the horsepower to write digital tuner data to three files at once rather than two, e.g. send the data from tuner 1 to the CSI and Shark disk files, and the data from tuner 2 to the ER file, and close the CSI file at 9:01.)

Where this really comes into play is if there is a mix of new and repeat programming; I could probably do this somehow using priorities, but if say CSI is new, but Shark is not, if I don't pad the end of CSI, I don't get to see the preview of next week's episode, if any.

Ha!

I pad the shows because if I don't, I don't see the beginning or end of the shows. It's that way with any recorded suggestions. :(

(Here in the Denver area, because all prime time programming is replayed from servers, the local stations like to start at least a minute early and end a minute late, so despite the fact that TiVo says a program starts at 7:00 PM, it really starts at 6:59. Likewise, programs that are to end at the top of the hour often run past so the local affiliate can insert an extra ad or two. So for example, even though I told my S3 to start recording Rudolph a minute early, the recording still started around 30 secnds after the program had begun.)


Pray tell, how is TiVo to realize that your local station operator has his clock set 1 minute early, or likes to jump the gun for whatever reason ? Also, how is it that they each program also extends a minute late ? Are hours 62 minutes out there in the Mountain time zone ?

Paul, when you're stuck in the snow, hours HAVE been known to stretch! :D

Seriously, kucharsk - this is a complaint you should address to the local broadcasters, and/or have TiVo talk Zap2it (tribune media - their guide source) to manually change the lineup to reflect reality.

In a perfect word, I'd recommend making your money talk, and just refusing to watch those channels that do this kind of thing - but that is unlikely to be an acceptable solution.

Seriously, kucharsk - this is a complaint you should address to the local broadcasters, and/or have TiVo talk Zap2it (tribune media - their guide source) to manually change the lineup to reflect reality.

That's not practical, at least here in Utah, and I'm sure in Denver as well.
Every night is different, and changes are made Day of Air, even Hour of Air.

The only solution is for every network to give the Mountain Time Zone a feed of their own, and stipulate in the Affiliate Agreement that under no circumstances are the stations to manipulate the start/end times to fit their agenda.

The Mountain Time Zone has started primetime a minute early since before I got into television, at least 20 years.
NBC even starts the Mountain Feed a minute early to accomodate this.
(at least they did 10 years ago before the affiliate swap here in Utah)

This should be known to the keepers of the guide (TMS) since it's been going on since the dawn of time.
The rest of the night is always up in the air though.


Jerry

Seriously, kucharsk - this is a complaint you should address to the local broadcasters, and/or have TiVo talk Zap2it (tribune media - their guide source) to manually change the lineup to reflect reality.Not likely; Tribune can't even get the program data correct most of the time. (Example: KRMA and KRMA-DT are always shown as simulcasting between Midnight and 6:00 AM each day, despite the fact that hasn't been true for almost a year now.)

In a perfect word, I'd recommend making your money talk, and just refusing to watch those channels that do this kind of thing - but that is unlikely to be an acceptable solution.Here that would mean not watching ABC, CBS, NBC or Fox. Since my TiVo is over-the-air only, that would greatly reduce its usefulness.

In fact, I've asked TiVo for an option to globally pad shows, so that even suggestions are recorded starting early and ending late; suggestions are of dubious utility without that capability.

Agreed, folks. That global padding seems like a good idea, and I know it is on megazon's tivolovers.com RFE list.

Assuming you can find the link quicker than I, add your voice to the masses who might already have officially requested this at the official TiVo Feature enhancement page (link later when I re-find it!)

I'll have a Series 3 shipped to me in a couple of days and I'm wondering if I should use TIVO's scaler to output the picture to 1080i (fixed) or instead use native and have my television (Hitachi F59 series) scale the picture to 1080i?

Anyone have experience with this combo?

Don't know anything about your Hitachi, but when I try to use the Native output with an HDMI connection with my Pioneer plasma, I get a momentary pause while the new resolution registers whenever I switch from an HD to SD channel.

Please define "momentary". I've read a fair number of reports that in situations like this (switching between different channel resolutions), the delay is excruciating, more like a few seconds at a time. If yours is much shorter, I wonder how much this has to do with the panel, the Tivo or your cable provider. I hope it's the Pioneer plasma, as I'm in the market for one. (btw, which model?)

I run my Series3 native (via component) into my video scaler, which then feeds my CRT RPTV (via RGB). Every single change in channels, menus and/or resolutions occurs within roughly one second. Without exception. When no resolution changes occur, there is no delay.

I suspect that the additional latencies people are seeing may be related to the HDMI having to re-handshake on these changes.

So what accounts for the time lag differences then, among various people?

Whether the s3 is handshaking with the outboard scaler, or the panels own internal scaler, shouldn't these times be roughly the same? Or, is it all coming down to the quality of the scaler.. the better the scaler, not only is the scaling job superior, but it also performs the task faster too??


I'm probably missing some fundamental point here.

So what accounts for the time lag differences then, among various people?

Whether the s3 is handshaking with the outboard scaler, or the panels own internal scaler, shouldn't these times be roughly the same? Or, is it all coming down to the quality of the scaler.. the better the scaler, not only is the scaling job superior, but it also performs the task faster too??


I'm probably missing some fundamental point here.

The time it takes a scaler to sync to a video signal (basically, detect the refresh rate or the input signal) is likely very different than the time it takes HDMI to complete a handshake. I don't know the exact details of the whole handshake process, so I really couldn't say how long it should take.

My guess is that these time lag differences are hardware dependent, with the dedicated scaler having better times that the lower-cost integrated stuff in panels.

Mine is probably less than a second, but that's still painful for me. I don't know if it's the scaler or the HDMI because I run mine through a Pioneer receiver as well as a Gefen HDMI switch. But I would guess it's the scaler.

It even blinks for a second when going from a channel to the Now Playing screen.

well, I think the key here is to have about a half-dozen tuners preset to the channels you are most interested in, and once you have them set, simply flip around via your universal remote, with a different button programmed in for each tuner. :D



And this is where we should insert the obligatory.. "I never have this problem because I have everything I want recorded on my Tivo.. what kind of idiot still watches live tv?!?!", saving someone out there the trouble. ;)

I use it to upscale everything to 1080i, and I use the aspect control on the Tivo rather than the TV usually. This way there is no delay as everything is @ 1080i even though my TV does support all the formats.

My Series 3 has been working great in the last two months since I purchased it but in the last week I've noticed a problem on two HD programs I recorded. During playback the picture will briefly freeze and then continue with some accompanying pixelization.

Sounds like a possible hard drive problem. The only thing that has changed in the last week is that the drive is almost full because of the amount of HD programs recorded.

I have Time Warner cable connected via dual cable cards and HDMI to a Sony 60" XBR2.

Has anyone else encountered this problem?

My Series 3 has been working great in the last two months since I purchased it but in the last week I've noticed a problem on two HD programs I recorded. During playback the picture will briefly freeze and then continue with some accompanying pixelization.

Sounds like a possible hard drive problem. The only thing that has changed in the last week is that the drive is almost full because of the amount of HD programs recorded.

I have Time Warner cable connected via dual cable cards and HDMI to a Sony 60" XBR2.

Has anyone else encountered this problem?

I wouldn't necessarily jump to conclusions just yet.

Do the playback hiccups occur in the same two programs, and only those two programs, in the same spots ?

Do all other programs play back OK ?

If everything else is OK, I would guess that your disk is fine, and that you recorded some other problem that probably isn't related to your Series3. For sure, keep an eye on it, but I wouldn't be worried just yet.

And this is where we should insert the obligatory.. "I never have this problem because I have everything I want recorded on my Tivo.. what kind of idiot still watches live tv?!?!", saving someone out there the trouble. ;)


Thank You ;)

Humor aside, from what most folks on TCF have reportd, the delay IS the HDMI handshake delay. Component users don't see this delay. Sony's and some Samsung's are aspecially slow to re-negotiate HDMI-HDCP at a new resolution.

My Sceptre switches (even via a monoPrice 5x1 HDMI switch) nearly instantly (less than a second) between resolutions when my TiVo is set to Native. Of course, the Sceptre has a sub-par scaler, so my S3 is set to 1080i fixed. This eliminates all perceived HDMI delay issues :)

My Series 3 has been working great in the last two months since I purchased it but in the last week I've noticed a problem on two HD programs I recorded. During playback the picture will briefly freeze and then continue with some accompanying pixelization.

Sounds like a possible hard drive problem. The only thing that has changed in the last week is that the drive is almost full because of the amount of HD programs recorded.

I have Time Warner cable connected via dual cable cards and HDMI to a Sony 60" XBR2.

Has anyone else encountered this problem?

I also had this problem when I bought mine in November. My signal is from attenna, though, which may be a different situation than yours being on cable. I determined it was an HD signal strength issue, because the freezing and pixelization occured also while watching the same channel live straight on the TV, bypassing the TIVO. The signal strenght was something like 40% (I forget - it's been a while). Haven't had a problem since adjusting the antenna.

sweetp, 40% is pretty darned BAD signal. My TiVo tuner (and my HDTV tuner) start pixellating & macroblocking (uncorrectable errors in the decoded data) below 55%. 60% & higher is fine (my PBSes) and all my locals happen to be in the 85-95% signal strength range - all show up flawlessly.

finetunes, in some cases, people have reported issues with very STRONG cable signal. Can you check your signal strngth? If it is, indeed, really high - throw in a splitter ;)

sweetp, 40% is pretty darned BAD signal. My TiVo tuner (and my HDTV tuner) start pixellating & macroblocking (uncorrectable errors in the decoded data) below 55%. 60% & higher is fine (my PBSes) and all my locals happen to be in the 85-95% signal strength range - all show up flawlessly.

finetunes, in some cases, people have reported issues with very STRONG cable signal. Can you check your signal strngth? If it is, indeed, really high - throw in a splitter ;)

Signal strength ranges from 92 to 97

I wouldn't necessarily jump to conclusions just yet.

Do the playback hiccups occur in the same two programs, and only those two programs, in the same spots ?

Do all other programs play back OK ?

If everything else is OK, I would guess that your disk is fine, and that you recorded some other problem that probably isn't related to your Series3. For sure, keep an eye on it, but I wouldn't be worried just yet.

Thanks for the advice.

So far the problems have been only in two programs. My concern is that I watched a portion of one of them and it played fine. When I watched the entire program the hiccups were present every 30 seconds or so.

If it is not the hard drive, is there an alternate explanation?

I received my S3 from TiVo last week and set it up temporarily via OTA antenna in my bedroom, feeding my Ilo 26 inch widescreen LCD monitor TV. I did this so that it would be easier to install the cable cards. The same day, I went to my Time Warner office and ordered the cable cards. They'd never heard of a TiVo series 3, and insisted that cable cards wouldn't work in anything but a HD TV receiver. I reassured them that they'd work just fine, that people had been getting this done for several months now.
I had to wait until this Tuesday for Time Warner Tech to come and install the cable cards. As luck would have it, the tech had NEVER installed a cablecard, so I had to assist him with the setup. (For this, I have to pay a $60 installation fee! :mad: ) Fortunately, all went pretty smoothly, and he can now brag that he's the first tech in the area to do a cablecard install on an S3.
I gave the S3 a day to get guide data updated via broadband connection before transferring it to the family room and my Sony 55 inch LCD RPTV. I've set the output to 720p fixed to allow the scaler in the S3 handle all format conversion, not knowing whether the S3 or the Sony has the better scaler. Hopefully, I shouldn't experience any HDMI handshake delays.
I haven't done any OTA vs. cable PQ comparisons as yet. The quality on Discovery HD Theater is superior to that I'd seen with the Scientific Atlanta 8300HD that the S3 replaced. So far, my only complaint is the lack of a "Favorites" button. I know that I can set the guide to see only favorites, but with the SA (as with my S3), I had all the cable HD channels set as favorites, making it easy to see what was on in HD, seeing the current programs for several channels at a time, rather than paging through channels one at a time.
I love my TiVo! (Proud owner of a 20 hour S1, 80 hour S2 and now an S3!) :D

Sounds good cholly, now if they will just hurry up and get that update out to us!

Thanks for the advice.

So far the problems have been only in two programs. My concern is that I watched a portion of one of them and it played fine. When I watched the entire program the hiccups were present every 30 seconds or so.

If it is not the hard drive, is there an alternate explanation?

Well, now that you describe the problem like that, I'd be a little more concerned. If you see errors on playback of a program, and no errors on the next playback of the same file, you've got problems. Either HDMI or disk, but there's likely something funky going on there.

I'd start thinking about an S3 swap out while you're under warranty.

I just received my new S3, and I will be doing the lifetime transfer from my existing S2. Which is the recommended procedure?:

A) activate the S3 now, use it for a couple weeks to be sure everything is functioning properly, THEN call in again to transfer lifetime from my S2 to S3.

B) activate the S3 now AND request lifetime transfer at the same time. I can always go back later (within 30 days) and resubmit lifetime transfer for a different S3, should this one need to be exchanged for a new one.

C) neither of the above.

thanks. :o

I just received my new S3, and I will be doing the lifetime transfer from my existing S2. Which is the recommended procedure?:

A) activate the S3 now, use it for a couple weeks to be sure everything is functioning properly, THEN call in again to transfer lifetime from my S2 to S3.

B) activate the S3 now AND request lifetime transfer at the same time. I can always go back later (within 30 days) and resubmit lifetime transfer for a different S3, should this one need to be exchanged for a new one.

C) neither of the above.

thanks. :o

B is easier, and in all likelihood, you won't need to call ever again for a swap because (1. youll love the S3, & 2. it will work)

I did A, and it took me FOREVERRRR on hold while 3-4 folks tried to figure it out. But the benefit of that is I know now that you would need to ask them to CANCEL the account (pre-30-day time-limit), and thena ctivate it afresh witha VIP transfer (the only way it works is on an unsubbed box, apparently)

C? Are you Ke-Raazzzyy? :)

I do love TiVo, but I think I'll be waiting on pulling the trigger on this. I do use ondemand and PPV once in a while, so it may be worth the wait for Cable Card 2.0. I would think that if Tivo does infact come out with another model (Series 4?), they'll offer the Lifetime sub transfer for a fee just like they are now. That's the only way they can milk the diehard Tivo fans and get more $$ out of them.

So I guess for now, I'll settle with my Series 2 and my Cox Cable DVR, which isn't the worst thing in the world.

Did Tivo make any announcements regarding an S4 at CES 2007?

Did Tivo make any announcements regarding an S4 at CES 2007?Wow...some guys are just not satisfied :D

Wow...some guys are just not satisfied :DWhy settle for 2nd best? :p

Why settle for 2nd best? :p

Flawed logic!

Until an S4 IS announced, the S3 is still the best :) No settling involved if you buy one (or 3) now!

B is easier, and in all likelihood, you won't need to call ever again for a swap because (1. youll love the S3, & 2. it will work)



ok, since you were the only one to respond, and I'm taking this to mean that nobody who has read your response would disagree with you on this point..

I went ahead and activated/lifetime transferred in one felt swoop. So far, seems to be working pretty well, and the Tivo phone call was quick and painless (well, except for the transfer fee part, of course). THANKS for the advice. :cool:

I am considering a S3. I have held off getting Tivo all this time, but life changes and so has my time slots for viewing. The decision on Tivo is done. My question is on another piece of software. please forgive me if I am asking in wrong forum.

Does anyone have experience with the software package Vault360 Platinum? It is suppose to allow easy transfer of files to your computer, including Tivo format. I am sure this is only a one way transfer, but I have lots of hard drive space on my 4 computers so storage is not an issue.

Also if I have just violated the rule on copying software then slap my hand and ignore the post. That is not my intention.

The Ancient One

Nothing is completely fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool.

I am considering a S3. I have held off getting Tivo all this time, but life changes and so has my time slots for viewing. The decision on Tivo is done. My question is on another piece of software. please forgive me if I am asking in wrong forum.

Does anyone have experience with the software package Vault360 Platinum? It is suppose to allow easy transfer of files to your computer, including Tivo format. I am sure this is only a one way transfer, but I have lots of hard drive space on my 4 computers so storage is not an issue.

Also if I have just violated the rule on copying software then slap my hand and ignore the post. That is not my intention.

The Ancient One

Nothing is completely fool-proof to a sufficiently talented fool.

Tivo S3 does not allow to transfer anything off it.

I am considering a S3. I have held off getting Tivo all this time, but life changes and so has my time slots for viewing. The decision on Tivo is done. My question is on another piece of software. please forgive me if I am asking in wrong forum.

Does anyone have experience with the software package Vault360 Platinum? It is suppose to allow easy transfer of files to your computer, including Tivo format. I am sure this is only a one way transfer, but I have lots of hard drive space on my 4 computers so storage is not an issue.

At this time, the Series3 doesn't allow for any file "sharing" operations (TiVoToGo and/or MultiRoomViewing), like the Series1 and Series2 do. You can thank CableLabs for that. So, you won't be able to pull videos off of the S3 to put 'em on your PC, and you won't be able to view files that reside on your PC with the S3. So, your software question at this time is moot.

However, all is not lost. At CES, a TiVo VP said that these features are coming to the S3 sometime. "Weeks, not years" was the term that he used. Now, to what extent they implement these features is still to be determined. CableLabs will almost certainly want certain content clamped down, which may not may not render the features useless. We'll have to see what happens to find that out...

At this time, the Series3 doesn't allow for any file "sharing" operations (TiVoToGo and/or MultiRoomViewing), like the Series1 and Series2 do. You can thank CableLabs for that. So, you won't be able to pull videos off of the S3 to put 'em on your PC, and you won't be able to view files that reside on your PC with the S3. So, your software question at this time is moot.

However, all is not lost. At CES, a TiVo VP said that these features are coming to the S3 sometime. "Weeks, not years" was the term that he used. Now, to what extent they implement these features is still to be determined. CableLabs will almost certainly want certain content clamped down, which may not may not render the features useless. We'll have to see what happens to find that out...

Awesome, thanks for the update.

Has anyone recieved the new 8.1 firmware yet that they demoed at CES?

Awesome, thanks for the update.

Has anyone recieved the new 8.1 firmware yet that they demoed at CES?

The same VP said that it's coming soon, but didn't give any specific timeline on it's release.

No one has gone on record saying that they have it. My guess is that it's in beta right now, and that those few who do have it are under NDA and can't talk about it. TiVo is very protective of their beta program. You're essentially sworn to secrecy before, during and after the beta test.

I am interested in getting an S3. However, I am ignorant when it comes to Tivo.

I currently have Comcast's 6416 III HD/DVR. What would be the advantages of replacing that with the S3?

I am interested in getting an S3. However, I am ignorant when it comes to Tivo.

I currently have Comcast's 6416 III HD/DVR. What would be the advantages of replacing that with the S3?It's tough to say since I don't have any experience with that DVR. What I would suggest is posting over in TiVoCommunity.com. I'm sure someone over there would have experience with that Comcast unit.

What I can tell you is the program guide, WishLists, Season Passes and user interface make it well worthwhile. The S3's picture quality is outstanding, and it's OTA onboard tuners are much more sensitive than the Samsung SIR-T151 or Sony DHG units I had previously.

It's tough to say since I don't have any experience with that DVR. What I would suggest is posting over in TiVoCommunity.com. I'm sure someone over there would have experience with that Comcast unit.

What I can tell you is the program guide, WishLists, Season Passes and user interface make it well worthwhile. The S3's picture quality is outstanding, and it's OTA onboard tuners are much more sensitive than the Samsung SIR-T151 or Sony DHG units I had previously.

What to the OTA onboard tuners do and how do you use them?

What to the OTA onboard tuners do and how do you use them?The S3 can receive cable and over-the-air (OTA) signals (no satellite). There are two coax inputs on the back; one for each. You can receive/record analog and digital cable (using cablecards for the digital cable thereby eliminating the need for a cable box), and you can receive/record analog and digital over-the-air broadcasts. I'm currently using my S3 to receive basic expanded analog cable and digital OTA broadcasts. The S3 seamlessly integrates the program guide for any combination of channels you want to receive.

What to the OTA onboard tuners do and how do you use them?

In practical terms, it allows me to receive an HD channel that my local one and only cable company doesn't offer. Its fox network and what would life be like without Bones, House and 24 in HD??

what would life be like without Bones, House and 24 in HD??Most likely, not much different then it is right now. ;)

The S3 can receive cable and over-the-air (OTA) signals (no satellite). There are two coax inputs on the back; one for each. You can receive/record analog and digital cable (using cablecards for the digital cable thereby eliminating the need for a cable box), and you can receive/record analog and digital over-the-air broadcasts. I'm currently using my S3 to receive basic expanded analog cable and digital OTA broadcasts. The S3 seamlessly integrates the program guide for any combination of channels you want to receive.

Do you have an antenna connected for the OTA signal?

Also, why would someone need two cablecards?

Do you have an antenna connected for the OTA signal?

Also, why would someone need two cablecards?
Yes, you connect an antenna for OTA.

You need 2 cablecards because the S3 has 2 tuners and can record 2 programs at once, you need 1 cablecard for each tuner.

Later they will have multistream cablecards.

Yes, you connect an antenna for OTA.

You need 2 cablecards because the S3 has 2 tuners and can record 2 programs at once, you need 1 cablecard for each tuner.

Later they will have multistream cablecards.Just so he's aware -

When they finally DO come out with multistream cableCARDS, they will not work with the S3 - only the current, one-way ones will.

Just so he's aware -

When they finally DO come out with multistream cableCARDS, they will not work with the S3 - only the current, one-way ones will.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is a difference between multistream cards (more than 1 tuner per card) and CableCard 2.0 (which will allow for 2 way communication). My understanding was that the S3 will support the multistream cards, so that you could use 1 multistream card to feed both tuners in the S3 (might save you a buck on card rental from the cable company, but that would be the only advantage). But as you said it will not support the CC2.0 cards that allow for VOD, PPV, etc...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is a difference between multistream cards (more than 1 tuner per card) and CableCard 2.0 (which will allow for 2 way communication). My understanding was that the S3 will support the multistream cards, so that you could use 1 multistream card to feed both tuners in the S3 (might save you a buck on card rental from the cable company, but that would be the only advantage). But as you said it will not support the CC2.0 cards that allow for VOD, PPV, etc...

You are correct. The Tivo is supposed to support multistream cards (if they ever come out), but will not support 2-way communication for cablecard 2.0...

You are correct. The Tivo is supposed to support multistream cards (if they ever come out), but will not support 2-way communication for cablecard 2.0...

Yup. TiVo will support the multistream cards, but not the bidirectional CableCard 2.0 cards. I thought I read somewhere that the multistream cards were just starting to ship. There was a flurry of activity in late summer with both SA and Motorola having their multistream cards "qualified" by CableLabs, but I can't seem to find anything more recent than that.

Here's the best LINK (http://www.pvrwire.com/2006/11/13/multistream-cablecard-status-update/) I could find. They're coming "real soon now". :)

You are correct. The Tivo is supposed to support multistream cards (if they ever come out), but will not support 2-way communication for cablecard 2.0...My mistake. Sorry. I had "multistream" and "two-way" confused.

I am interested in getting an S3. However, I am ignorant when it comes to Tivo.

I currently have Comcast's 6416 III HD/DVR. What would be the advantages of replacing that with the S3?Aside from the software itself, the biggest advantage of the S3 over the Comcast box is that the S3 is yours and you can increase the internal capacity by installing a larger disk. The stock hard drive is also 250GB so that's already a huge advantage over the 6412 (120GB) and 6416 (160GB). I would also bet that Tivo will have the eSATA port on the S3 working before Comcast does on the 34xx/64xx series boxes.

- Mike

I read on here than PQ is better with the S3 compared to cable company's DVRs. Is there a reason for this? I find it hard to believe. My HD channels look amazing with the Moto box.

I read on here than PQ is better with the S3 compared to cable company's DVRs. Is there a reason for this? I find it hard to believe. My HD channels look amazing with the Moto box.I don't have either one, but my understanding is that the SD upconversion on Moto is terrible. S3 is probably better, but it also has the option of "Native" output so that SD channels are passed to the display as SD to be scaled by the display and 720p and 1080i are passed to the display as broadcast. This potentially makes a big difference, depending on your display.

- Mike

In addition to scaling and up/down conversion, the S3 likely also has a superior MPEG decoder (although I'm not entirely sure any more of that - considering some posts in the 6412 forum mentioning the TiVo S3 & the 64/34 boxes share the same CPU family from Broadcom).

Aside from the software itself, the biggest advantage of the S3 over the Comcast box is that the S3 is yours and you can increase the internal capacity by installing a larger disk. The stock hard drive is also 250GB so that's already a huge advantage over the 6412 (120GB) and 6416 (160GB). I would also bet that Tivo will have the eSATA port on the S3 working before Comcast does on the 34xx/64xx series boxes.

- MikeI wouldn't bet the bank that eSata will be enabled anytime soon on either, but especially TiVo. The delay has been nothing short of exasperating (as clearly evidenced on the TiVoCommunity forums). That's why I pimped out my S3 to a 750GB Seagate DB35 hard drive. Loving it...

I read on here than PQ is better with the S3 compared to cable company's DVRs. Is there a reason for this? I find it hard to believe. My HD channels look amazing with the Moto box.
I can't give you specific numbers, or measurements, but IMO, the S3 definitely puts out a better picture than the Moto 6412, sharper, cleaner, with a bit more vibrant colors, plus, native output is very nice to have.

Aside from the software itself, the biggest advantage of the S3 over the Comcast box is that the S3 is yours and you can increase the internal capacity by installing a larger disk. The stock hard drive is also 250GB so that's already a huge advantage over the 6412 (120GB) and 6416 (160GB). I would also bet that Tivo will have the eSATA port on the S3 working before Comcast does on the 34xx/64xx series boxes.

- Mike

I am also weighing whether to upgrade my S2 Humax Tivo Box to an S3 or just bail and get a Cable DVR (I am an RCN customer) or even potentially use both (dvr for HD content and hang on to lifetime tivo for sd). I have never used a Cable provided DVR but in researching it, I have a strong feeling that it would be major downgrade for us because 1) ease of use of tivo, my family is "trained" already and loves the interface, 2) can upgrade size if needed although my 80 hr box has suited us well up to now, 3) the networking capability we use to enable wireless (wifi) access to a mp3 collection on home network that we use on a daily basis, and 4) all of the tivo features that may or may not be available on other dvr products (e.g., season pass? etc). My existing tivo box also has both a dvd player (not sure how this will look on HDTV) and burner (for camcorder and tivo'd content) so it has been very convenient. What I am now missing is the ability to time shift (tivo) HD content - and from my perspective if I can't watch it when I want to, then what use is it? So, there are some other reasons that you might factor into upgrading to an S3. My big question is if I go the S3/cablecard route, what do I lose in terms of S2 functionality - I don't use tivotogo right now...

My new HD box is a Motorola 6416 III - dvr not enabled as of yet...

I purchased my Tivo series 3 on line after searching many nights who had the best price.

I located a company called Digitalhotbuy on line

I placed the order on line and I also had a back up if it was bogus with a company on Amazon.

The box arrived in 3 days and it was 100% perfect in a factory sealed box.

I paid $611.20.00 and I got FREE SHIPPING!

I just looked and it still exists.

If you are like me who want the very best and have been hitting your head against the wall to justify the cost, it made me feel better that I found it cheaper than what TIVO is offering it for.

Now I can go ahead and take my lifetime upgrade for $199.00 with out any problem.

I read on here than PQ is better with the S3 compared to cable company's DVRs. Whatever difference there is is pretty marginal IMHO. It wasn't noticeable enough for that to make a difference to me.

I can't give you specific numbers, or measurements, but IMO, the S3 definitely puts out a better picture than the Moto 6412, sharper, cleaner, with a bit more vibrant colors, plus, native output is very nice to have.
I should qualify the above statement. Because I have a video processor using the native output of the S3 offloads the scaling/deinterlacing from the TiVo box. This no doubt contributes to the improved picture quality. OTOH, the Moto box is limited to about 1350-1450 lines of resolution with it's output. This may or may not make a difference depending on display capability. I use a CRT-based display with 9" CRTs so the increased resolution of the S3 is something I can make use of.

I use a CRT-based display with 9" CRTs so the increased resolution of the S3 is something I can make use of.

Huh? :) VERY curious to see pictures of your setup. Where's your "Here's my setup" thread, please? :)

Is this like a multi-CRT video wall with seamless borders or something like that? Or did I misunderstand completely?

Huh? :) VERY curious to see pictures of your setup. Where's your "Here's my setup" thread, please? :)

Is this like a multi-CRT video wall with seamless borders or something like that? Or did I misunderstand completely?


Sounds like a CRT RPTV with 9" guns. Likely 60"+ in size. I don't think they make them any more, as CRT's are on the way out with the onset of fixed-pixel displays.

I also use the S3 in native mode feeding a video processor, but into an RPTV with 7" guns. It's nice to be able to control the image, and not leave it up to a low-cost scaling part in either the S3 or TV.

Can the S3 record 2 digital cable streams at once? I thought it could, but my lifetime service transfer email (the $199 promo thing) has this in fine print:

Record from two basic cable channels, or one basic cable and one digital cable channel, at once. Does not support recording from two digital cable or satellite channels at once

If it cant do it, that seems like a big deal, and deal breaker for me.

*edit* got an answer from TCF. Looks like the email was incorrect. Whew!

Can the S3 record 2 digital cable streams at once? I thought it could, but my lifetime service transfer email (the $199 promo thing) has this in fine print:



If it cant do it, that seems like a big deal, and deal breaker for me.

*edit* got an answer from TCF. Looks like the email was incorrect. Whew!

Cool that you got your answer already.

FYI, to record two ENCRYPTED digital cable streams, two cablecards are needed.

Cool that you got your answer already.

FYI, to record two ENCRYPTED digital cable streams, two cablecards are needed.

Yeah, I read about that. Not a big issue for me, I was just freaked when I read the fine print on the email.

Can the S3 record 2 digital cable streams at once? I thought it could, but my lifetime service transfer email (the $199 promo thing) has this in fine print:

Record from two basic cable channels, or one basic cable and one digital cable channel, at once. Does not support recording from two digital cable or satellite channels at once


If it cant do it, that seems like a big deal, and deal breaker for me.

*edit* got an answer from TCF. Looks like the email was incorrect. Whew!


Good that you got your answer.

The text you quoted sounds like it's from the S2 Dual Tuner, which has two analog tuners, and one digital tuner.

The S3 has two OTA tuners, two analog cable tuners, and two digital (SD & HD) tuners, making a total of six. Only two are usable at any one time, though.

Ok, I didnt realize that it had the extra tuners. I assume there are no issues recording analog OTA or ATSC as well? If it does ATSC recording as well, thats an added bonus because my cable delivered CBS HD channel sucks compared to the OTA signal I get from another market (they allocate more bandwidth to the primary channel).

Ok, I didnt realize that it had the extra tuners. I assume there are no issues recording analog OTA or ATSC as well? If it does ATSC recording as well, thats an added bonus because my cable delivered CBS HD channel sucks compared to the OTA signal I get from another market (they allocate more bandwidth to the primary channel).

Yes, it does OTA recordings. Upto 2 channels at a time (internally split from your single OTA antenna source/input).

Any combination of OTA/Cable unencrypted/Cable encrypted, up to 2 simultaneous recordings (pre-empting further related questions) ;) And yes, you can play back a 3rd show off the NPL, simultaneously.

Cool... thats all great info, now I just need to decide to go for it or not, and whether I want to do the lifetime transfer ($1000 total cost) or get a unit from an online retailer for $650 and pay monthly fees. The difference works out to be 27 months worth of fees....decisions decisions...

Sounds like a CRT RPTV with 9" guns. Likely 60"+ in size. I don't think they make them any more, as CRT's are on the way out with the onset of fixed-pixel displays.

I also use the S3 in native mode feeding a video processor, but into an RPTV with 7" guns. It's nice to be able to control the image, and not leave it up to a low-cost scaling part in either the S3 or TV.
Yes, that's what it is, a Mits 73" CRT-RPTV, sorry, I should have been more clear. :)

Cool... thats all great info, now I just need to decide to go for it or not, and whether I want to do the lifetime transfer ($1000 total cost) or get a unit from an online retailer for $650 and pay monthly fees. The difference works out to be 27 months worth of fees....decisions decisions...

how 'bout option C? buy it online for $600-$650 from wherever you can find the best deal, then phone in your lifetime transfer for $200. You do NOT need to purchase from Tivo to qualify for tranferring your lifetime over. It was setup that way initially (buying through Tivo), but they amended that stipulation a couple months ago.

Ohhh I didnt know they changed that. Now that makes it more appealing. Too bad I missed out on the ******* sale. But amazon's price isnt too bad ($30 more) which I could save by signing up with their CC.

Costco has it, occasionally Dell does as well, and there's a price-tracking thread on TiVoCommunity.com, where the moderators have been nice enough to let it go - considering they have a VERY competitively priced, great service store of their own too!

The CHEAPEST way to get lifetime is to buy a refurbished Humax unit from TiVo, and take advantage of he deal TiVo made with Humax to ALWAYS (or at least for now) allow Lifetime to be sold for $299 for Humax units. The units are available for under 100! Transfer this over, and you will be in possession of a second TiVo (albeit an S2) with DVD burning capability etc, with service paid for for the first year (A $84 value, @6.95 per month!)

Lifetime for your S3 will cost you $ 316 out of pocket, and you get that additional unit :) Don't feed the vultures selling overpriced Lifetime S3s on ebay!

I already have 2 Series 1 units with lifetime :) Just collecting dust.

Lifetime for your S3 will cost you $ 316 out of pocket, and you get that additional unit :) Don't feed the vultures selling overpriced Lifetime S3s on ebay!

How do you get $316?

$ 99 Humax cost
$299 Lifetime cost
$199 Transfer lifetime to S3
------------------------------------
$597 Total cost for Humax w/ 1 year service + lifetime service on S3

-$84, value of 1 year of free service (at MSD rate of $6.95 per month) on Humax unit after Lifetime transfer

Heh, I DID forget to add the $199 :)

Is there a limitation on the lifetime transfer deal? I was thinking that you had to do it (or buy the S3) by the end of January. I might be wrong though...

The email I have on it says purchase by 1-31, and activate (transfer) by 3-2.

Can I buy an s3 and use it to only record HD OTA without cablecards or any Tivo service purchase?

Ben Music

Can I buy an s3 and use it to only record HD OTA without cablecards or any Tivo service purchase?

Ben Music


Without TiVo Service, it will only be an expensive Trick Play box. Service is needed to record OTA (or cable)

Actually....just an expensive door stop.

Whatever difference there is is pretty marginal IMHO. It wasn't noticeable enough for that to make a difference to me.

The 6412 Phase III had much better analog SD than the original 6412. The difference was like night and day. That said, the TiVO S3 does as good a job as you can expect with analog SD as well.

The 6412 Phase III had much better analog SD than the original 6412. The difference was like night and day. That said, the TiVO S3 does as good a job as you can expect with analog SD as well.

How can you tell whether a 6412 is an original or a Phase III? I have a Series2 and a Series3, and the picture quality between the two is night and day for me.

how 'bout option C? buy it online for $600-$650 from wherever you can find the best deal, then phone in your lifetime transfer for $200. You do NOT need to purchase from Tivo to qualify for tranferring your lifetime over. It was setup that way initially (buying through Tivo), but they amended that stipulation a couple months ago.

Don't forget option D: Don't transfer your lifetime. Keep it on the old box, then pay only $6.95/month for a second active TiVo. That comes out to equal 30 months on the lifetime. But the way technology is changing, these S3s will prolly be obsolete in 30-36 months anyway.

Don't forget option D: Don't transfer your lifetime. Keep it on the old box, then pay only $6.95/month for a second active TiVo. That comes out to equal 30 months on the lifetime. But the way technology is changing, these S3s will prolly be obsolete in 30-36 months anyway.

It probably won't be available for nearly that long, judging by the 2 other recent HD DVRs, the LG 3410a and the sony DHG-HDD250/500, each of which was on the market for only about 1 year. I have one of each, and I only wish the Sony had a 2-tuner setup llike the series 3. Otherwise, I love it. (Of course it isn't a Tivo, but BOTH of these units show schedules for a week in advance, so you only have to push a button to set up a recording, including weekly or daily or whatever).

In other words, if the Tivo S-3 had the same scheduling system as these 2 units, instead of the tivo, I'd consider buying it...(I'm one of those for whom broadcast HD is enough, no need for cable and monthly fees...)

Don't forget option D: Don't transfer your lifetime. Keep it on the old box, then pay only $6.95/month for a second active TiVo. That comes out to equal 30 months on the lifetime. But the way technology is changing, these S3s will prolly be obsolete in 30-36 months anyway.
Dont see option D on their site.. and linkage? :)

Dont see option D on their site.. and linkage? :)

I made up the "option D" part, but here is the multi-unit discount info:
http://www.tivo.com/4.0.msd.faq.asp

I really did try to like the HR20.

But with my signal strength taking a permanent hit after a big winter storm and frequent pixelization appearing randomly on several stations (but especially the Golf Channel), after hearing that re-tuning the dish is now MY responsilbility, after the last firmware "upgrade" resulted in:

* the double-press for series recording not showing the series icon till much later
* quadruple identical listings listings appearing for some To Do items
* multiple end of football games & golf matches lost because the recording stopped earlier than the "Plus 3 hours" I started using

Knowing that the resolution of HD was not as good as Cable (D*'s infamous HD-Lite) always bugged me (I compared them when my HR20 was installed) and I have always hated the "press & hold Play to activate Slo-Mo sometime soon" debacle.

So I bit the TiVo Series3 bullet yesterday.

Two deciding factors:

- multi-hundred dollar discounts off of the Series3 list price are now available online through big name e-tailers
- I found out yesterday :D that I could get Lifetime Monthly Service on the Series3 by "transferring" my Lifetime Service from my old Series2 ! ! ! Given that A) this is the ONLY WAY to get Lifetime Service on the Series3 (the only other deal is 3 years for $300) and B) this lifetime service transfer only applies to Series3 purchased by next Tuesday, I jumped on it.

It will ship on Tuesday, and a week later, DirecTV will get a "take this stuff away" call from me.

Hopefully, the HR20 won't mess up the SuperBowl recording if I have to use it for that. :^/

YMMV,

rclams

It probably won't be available for nearly that long, judging by the 2 other recent HD DVRs, the LG 3410a and the sony DHG-HDD250/500, each of which was on the market for only about 1 year.Actually, the Sony was on the market for at least a couple of years. It was available through Tweeter's catalog and even on their shelves before most people here were even aware of it's existence, and even earlier than when the thread here on it started. I think I first saw it sometime during '04.

I know this for a fact, because I had my eye on it right from the start and really wanted it, but I planned on waiting for the price to go down. Even the thread here didn't pick up steam until that started happening and the word started getting around.

(I wish I still had the catalog it was first listed in, but I tossed it awhile back.)

Actually, the Sony was on the market for at least a couple of years. It was available through Tweeter's catalog and even on their shelves before most people here were even aware of it's existence, and even earlier than when the thread here on it started. I think I first saw it sometime during '04.

I know this for a fact, because I had my eye on it right from the start and really wanted it, but I planned on waiting for the price to go down. Even the thread here didn't pick up steam until that started happening and the word started getting around.

(I wish I still had the catalog it was first listed in, but I tossed it awhile back.)
The 500GB Sony's are still available at Fry's. I saw three in a stack about two weeks ago,

The 500GB Sony's are still available at Fry's. I saw three in a stack about two weeks ago,Yeah, they were still selling both models at the Fry's in my area last time I checked, too.

But if you're going on availability, then yeah - both the LG and the Sony's have been around a LOT longer than 2 years. I just figured by "on the market" he probably meant on the store shelves. Or at least I was giving him the benefit of the doubt on that.

In related news, Comcast has begun SDV testing. Has there been any news about TiVo addressing CC2.0?

The Sony DHG units were released in June of 2005. Check out the official AVS thread on them. I was following it closely, too, and had one from about late November 2005 until mid-January 2006 (actually several, since they kept crapping out on me).